From vanderleun at comcast.net Sun Jan 1 11:47:50 2006 From: vanderleun at comcast.net (Gerard Vanderleun) Date: Sun Jan 1 11:48:01 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> Message-ID: <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> Now right up front I want to say that Omniweb is my browser of choice, my default state for a lot of reasons concerning features and functionality. Nice job. Okay? Having said that I just would like to have any ideas about how you can possibly speed this turtle up. Besides being my favorite browser it is also, by several orders of sensation, the slowest, most crawling along, lacking urgency, non-crisp and overall plodding browser I use. Safari, fast enough Camino, even faster Firefox is as firefox does I'd have to (shudder) look but I suspect that even IE is faster. I've emptied the cache, trashed the icons and done other things to speed Omniweb up but nothing seems to work. It just lumbers on. What can be done if anything or is this lack of speed just something that is a feature not a bug in that it enables me time to make a sandwich while a page loads. [Running the latest Omniweb version, yes I am. Is it the web rendering engine that is clogged. ] Don't get me wrong. I love Omniweb, but our relationship just can't go on if she's always going to load late. From katz at cs.millersville.edu Sun Jan 1 13:44:30 2006 From: katz at cs.millersville.edu (Beth Katz) Date: Sun Jan 1 13:49:35 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> Message-ID: One thing I've done to speed things up is lower the number of days I keep of history. I keep four days. I forget what the default is. But then again, I don't visit many fancy sites. Beth Katz From tim at ccc.de Sun Jan 1 17:34:16 2006 From: tim at ccc.de (Tim Pritlove) Date: Sun Jan 1 18:00:16 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6ABEDD1C-8D42-4D92-BA2C-081A59FF572E@ccc.de> On 01.01.2006, at 20:47, Gerard Vanderleun wrote: > Now right up front I want to say that Omniweb is my browser of > choice, my default state for a lot of reasons concerning features > and functionality. Nice job. Okay? > > Having said that I just would like to have any ideas about how you > can possibly speed this turtle up. Besides being my favorite > browser it is also, by several orders of sensation, the slowest, > most crawling along, lacking urgency, non-crisp and overall > plodding browser I use. I share this experience. Although I bought and love OmniWeb, I am using primarily Safari now just because of speed. The big advantages of OmniWeb just fade away when everything takes hours to respond. I am not happy with the overall app performance on Mac OS X anyway. I don't really know why OW is so far behind in terms of speed. Is there an explanation for this? Greetings Tim -- Tim Pritlove, Discordian Evangelist Project Blinkenlights ------ "Of course I?m crazy, but that doesn?t mean I?m wrong. I?m mad but not ill." From laserdoc at pacificnet.net Sun Jan 1 19:56:50 2006 From: laserdoc at pacificnet.net (Robert Scott) Date: Sun Jan 1 20:12:49 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: <6ABEDD1C-8D42-4D92-BA2C-081A59FF572E@ccc.de> References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> <6ABEDD1C-8D42-4D92-BA2C-081A59FF572E@ccc.de> Message-ID: <36D104B6-F7FF-460D-B0CC-1E04BFC1BC23@pacificnet.net> Hey all - this user can't detect any difference in speed when compared to Safari. And with the latest Beta, no more locking up with the spinning cursor. Thanks guys and gals at the Omniscient OmniWeb Hq. They never let us down. :=) Someone complaining about OS X Apps performance? To me that's like saying that the Bentley leaves out a lot of the Rolls Royce good stuff. Hello? A Very Happy New Year to all & especially to JP. The Old Lion From clytie at riverland.net.au Sun Jan 1 21:36:28 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Sun Jan 1 21:36:54 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> Message-ID: On 02/01/2006, at 6:17 AM, Gerard Vanderleun wrote: > Now right up front I want to say that Omniweb is my browser of > choice, my default state for a lot of reasons concerning features > and functionality. Nice job. Okay? > > Having said that I just would like to have any ideas about how you > can possibly speed this turtle up. Besides being my favorite > browser it is also, by several orders of sensation, the slowest, > most crawling along, lacking urgency, non-crisp and overall > plodding browser I use. I have to agree. I love OW dearly, and I'm too bloodyminded [1] to swap back after buying it, but I get _so_ sick of waiting for it to do things. I bought a copy for my teenage daughter, and find it very hard to answer her continual questions about why OW is so slow on our G4 desktop. I don't know. Yes, it has a lot more features, but would they really make it so slow to load? It would help to know. Speed is certainly a killer issue right now. Time is money: in my case, time is capacity, and I have very little of it. from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN [1] Australian for stubborn From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Mon Jan 2 07:41:49 2006 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene) Date: Mon Jan 2 07:41:50 2006 Subject: QuickTime crashes In-Reply-To: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> Message-ID: <20060102154149.GA22419@Dark-Age.local> On Thu, Dec 29, 2005 at 01:37:38PM CST, Trevor Harmon wrote: : : Many crashes that I experience with OmniWeb occur while playing back : a QuickTime video or audio file embedded in a web page. It's not : consistent -- many times QuickTime content plays without crashing -- : but if OmniWeb does crash, it's often when using QuickTime. For me, WMV tends to crash OW more than anything else. I've rarely had problems with QT content. -- Eugene http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From katz at cs.millersville.edu Mon Jan 2 10:48:33 2006 From: katz at cs.millersville.edu (Beth Katz) Date: Mon Jan 2 10:48:39 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> Message-ID: <59D9E8AE-5839-4E7A-A34B-24884BAC4CAD@cs.millersville.edu> Well, I've grown tired of my son asking why Firefox is crashing the G3. Freezes the whole machine. Maybe it's time for me to switch him over to OmniWeb, but I'll have to check whether I bought a family license. Beth Katz On Jan 2, 2006, at 12:36 AM, Clytie Siddall wrote: > I bought a copy for my teenage daughter, and find it > very hard to answer her continual questions about > why OW is so slow on our G4 desktop. From fcorbett at comcast.net Mon Jan 2 12:32:15 2006 From: fcorbett at comcast.net (Forrest Corbett) Date: Mon Jan 2 12:32:19 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Jan 1, 2006, at 11:47 AM, Gerard Vanderleun wrote: > Having said that I just would like to have any ideas about how you > can possibly speed this turtle up. Besides being my favorite > browser it is also, by several orders of sensation, the slowest, > most crawling along, lacking urgency, non-crisp and overall > plodding browser I use. OmniWeb is by far the fastest browser, for me. You don't really explain much about what it is you find "slow." "more crawling along" In the OW4 days, I might have agreed with you. However, OW5's feature set can hardly be called "crawling." The tabs implementation alone far surpasses that of Firefox or Safari. Not having to click on each of my 20 tabs in a window to see what it is, saves me hours each week. That makes OW "fast" in my book. Many of the other features that come with plug-ins or mods for Firefox and Safari, are already built into OmniWeb. "lacking urgency" I'm not sure what's so urgent about browser development. Security patches are probably the only "urgent" thing when it comes to web browsers. Not sure if you've noticed, but some of the Safari security bug were already found/fixed by Omni and implemented into OW. So when Apple had to release a patch, Omni didn't. "non-crisp" Honestly, I have no idea how you can compare OW to Firefox and call OW "non-crisp." The form field display alone in FF are enough for me to not want to use it. They are very rough. Omni has won awards for how polished its browser is. They've also won awards for other software. IMHO, OmniWeb is by far the most "crisp" browser available on any platform. "plodding" Really? OmniWeb is unexciting? It lacks a demonstration of imagination or intelligence? I have to completely disagree with that. Many of the exciting and imaginative features (which obviously came from intelligent people) that make OW the fastest browser for me are: - HTML source editor: often times when building a dynamic site, there's a bug in the code and I can't tell just which include the bug is in. So I can edit the source and redisplay it within OW all as one page. When I find the bug, I can find the include and fix the problem much more quickly. - Site Preferences: Some sites are just built strangely. Their 7px font just doesn't work well for me. Changing the font display size each time I visit the site, and then back when I go to other sites, is tedious. Or maybe I want to allow ads to be displayed on a certain site, or reject cookies, or change the HTTP header... last check. Neither Firefox nor Safari offered site-specific preferences. - Workspaces: Try having a couple hundred windows open in Firefox and let me know what happens. OW has an intelligent feature of allowing windows to be organized into workspaces. I configure mine based on topic. Each client gets their own. If one calls and I need to look at their site or other online systems, with a press of a button they're all loaded and all my other windows are safely saved but out of sight. This is another feature which saves me time. I could go on, but I think you get the idea. You're probably thinking that I didn't understand you were strictly talking about web page load time. IMHO, comparing browsers based on page load time is like comparing cars based on weight. OW has many other things going on in the background when a page loads. This is unlike the other browsers you mention. Part of the slowness may be attributed to the current web core version. However, Omni has said they are working on implementing a new version and that it will be implemented differently. This may decrease the page load time. FWIW, I would trade page load time for OW's feature any day. And I do. -Forrest From vanderleun at comcast.net Mon Jan 2 13:30:12 2006 From: vanderleun at comcast.net (Gerard Vanderleun) Date: Mon Jan 2 13:30:23 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Jan 2, 2006, at 12:32 PM, Forrest Corbett wrote: > FWIW, I would trade page load time for OW's feature any day. And I do. I do to. Now, it it could just get up off the sofa. Gerard Van der Leun http://americandigest.org From katz at cs.millersville.edu Mon Jan 2 14:06:07 2006 From: katz at cs.millersville.edu (Beth Katz) Date: Mon Jan 2 14:06:23 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3F4BF981-2152-4F4E-A456-A07588389A0B@cs.millersville.edu> I just launched OW. My default workspace has 8 tabs. They loaded pretty darn quickly and are ready for me to surf. I keep separate workspaces for different tasks and that helps me work more effectively. Switching to and loading the tabs in those workspaces was nearly instantaneous. I agree with Forrest that the features outweigh any difficulties. I'd always like bugs fixed and the speed enhanced, but for me in my day-to-day activities, for sheer usefulness, OW wins hands down. I don't see an overall slowness, but I'm not surfing "fancy" sites. You might try setting site preferences for some sites. Or cut back on how much history you're saving. Or don't have as many tabs in each workspace. Or use workspaces. History length seemed to really affect my speed when I changed it months ago. I'm not saying that you aren't experiencing slowness and that there isn't room for OW improvement. But I use OW exclusively except in a few rare cases when I use Firefox. OW works with the way I use the web. Beth Katz On Jan 2, 2006, at 3:32 PM, Forrest Corbett wrote: > > FWIW, I would trade page load time for OW's feature any day. And I do. From gumby3 at henkel-wallace.org Mon Jan 2 15:12:54 2006 From: gumby3 at henkel-wallace.org (DV Henkel-Wallace) Date: Mon Jan 2 15:12:57 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Jan 3, 2006, at 07:32 , Forrest Corbett wrote: > On Jan 1, 2006, at 11:47 AM, Gerard Vanderleun wrote: > >> Having said that I just would like to have any ideas about how you >> can possibly speed this turtle up. Besides being my favorite >> browser it is also, by several orders of sensation, the slowest, >> most crawling along, lacking urgency, non-crisp and overall >> plodding browser I use. > > OmniWeb is by far the fastest browser, for me. You don't really > explain much about what it is you find "slow." OW doesn't scale well when you use it heavily. However I cannot compare it to other browsers since I cannot survive any more without Workspaces or thumb tabs. I think with no history and only one browser with no thumbs it's reasonably fast. But I usually have about 10 browsers some with 40 or 50 thumbs. Apparently this is considered "heavy." From fcorbett at comcast.net Mon Jan 2 15:28:06 2006 From: fcorbett at comcast.net (Forrest Corbett) Date: Mon Jan 2 15:28:08 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7DAE2418-E567-463A-8FD4-694C1A8328A5@comcast.net> On Jan 2, 2006, at 3:12 PM, DV Henkel-Wallace wrote: > OW doesn't scale well when you use it heavily. However I cannot > compare it to other browsers since I cannot survive any more > without Workspaces or thumb tabs. > > I think with no history and only one browser with no thumbs it's > reasonably fast. But I usually have about 10 browsers some with 40 > or 50 thumbs. Apparently this is considered "heavy." Depending on hardware, that's true. I have my wife use Safari on a PBG4 500/768MB/40GB 5400RPM for that reason. Coming from IE on Windows, tabs, spellchecking... is good enough for the casual surfer. She probably visits as many pages per day as I have open at any given time. Since upgrading myself from a dual 800/1.25GB to a dual 2.7/4.5GB, OW scales MUCH better. -Forrest From vanderleun at comcast.net Mon Jan 2 16:26:38 2006 From: vanderleun at comcast.net (Gerard Vanderleun) Date: Mon Jan 2 16:32:46 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: <7DAE2418-E567-463A-8FD4-694C1A8328A5@comcast.net> References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> <7DAE2418-E567-463A-8FD4-694C1A8328A5@comcast.net> Message-ID: <62be438e068619b31056bcd3ae24c113@comcast.net> On Jan 2, 2006, at 3:28 PM, Forrest Corbett wrote: > Since upgrading myself from a dual 800/1.25GB to a dual 2.7/4.5GB, OW > scales MUCH better. That's good news. Only about $2000 between me and a faster browser. But I take the main points about the functionality of the features made by others in this thread. I think I was saying something like that in my original post. My sense is that the engine way down at the bottom of OW is the real reason it pokes along. Can't keep dumping weight on an old car and expect it to perform the same. Gerard Van der Leun http://americandigest.org From fcorbett at comcast.net Mon Jan 2 17:56:40 2006 From: fcorbett at comcast.net (Forrest Corbett) Date: Mon Jan 2 17:56:44 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: <62be438e068619b31056bcd3ae24c113@comcast.net> References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> <7DAE2418-E567-463A-8FD4-694C1A8328A5@comcast.net> <62be438e068619b31056bcd3ae24c113@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Jan 2, 2006, at 4:26 PM, Gerard Vanderleun wrote: > My sense is that the engine way down at the bottom of OW is the > real reason it pokes along. Can't keep dumping weight on an old car > and expect it to perform the same. My archives for this list only show messages from you starting this last June. So I'm guessing you haven't seen the messages from Omni on how OW5 is built and some of the performance items. Specifically, messages from when OW5 was in beta. The "engine way down" is WebCore, same as Safari. However, Omni had a great feature set and simply adding onto WebCore wasn't enough. So they built OW5 on WebCore, but also added a lot of their own stuff. OW5 is hardly an "old car" as it was largely rebuilt from the ground up, IIRC. With all the customization, they haven't been able to integrate each WebCore update quite so quickly. Some on this list have expressed interest in that "feature" so there has been some discussion about that. There has been mention that some features may go away in order to make that happen. I haven't seen any final word on that from the OG. One message string that stuck in my head was when one list member said something like "it's not like OmniWeb is doing anything as intensive as Photoshop." I think it was Scott who replied something along the lines of "oh, but it is." OmniWeb does A LOT more than the other browsers I've seen. The second thing to remember is Omni is also trying to keep the browser compatible with multiple versions of OS X. For example, it would be really cool if they used Core Image to create the graphical thumbnail tabs. However, that would only work on Tiger with supported video cards. Sure it would take less processor. Overall I think it's very important to take a range of factors into account when discussing something like page load time. Omni's target, judging by results, has not been to be the fastest page rendering browser on the planet. I would love it if they built the perfect browser - one that didn't require the latest OS, the fastest hardware, easily updated with the latest WebCore, had the most/best features and loaded pages the fastest - but I think expecting that sort of perfection is just a setup for disappointment. I know they're working on 5.5. They've got a bright crew who does a good job. Judging by the times of the day I see emails from them, I think they devote a lot of time to their work. They're nice when I harass them. I know they will use their best judgement when making a decision. I know they're aware it's not the fastest browser on the planet. -Forrest From clytie at riverland.net.au Mon Jan 2 18:45:42 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Mon Jan 2 18:45:47 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: <59D9E8AE-5839-4E7A-A34B-24884BAC4CAD@cs.millersville.edu> References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> <59D9E8AE-5839-4E7A-A34B-24884BAC4CAD@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <138D730E-CC67-47EF-8DF9-F015017D0B12@riverland.net.au> On 03/01/2006, at 5:18 AM, Beth Katz wrote: > Well, I've grown tired of my son asking why Firefox > is crashing the G3. Freezes the whole machine. Worth deleting the prefs etc., if you haven't already done that. Point taken, though, both teenagers and software have persistent "issues". :) > Maybe > it's time for me to switch him over to OmniWeb, but > I'll have to check whether I bought a family license. I found I'd bought a single licence, but bought a family licence, in case I would need more copies. I've bought so many Omni programs now, I wish I'd seen, or thought of the combined discount package... I don't know how fast OW would run on a G3, if it's slow on our G4 desktop and iBook. Trinh still only runs Safari on my old G3 iBook. from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN From clytie at riverland.net.au Mon Jan 2 18:49:09 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Mon Jan 2 18:49:13 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: <3F4BF981-2152-4F4E-A456-A07588389A0B@cs.millersville.edu> References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> <3F4BF981-2152-4F4E-A456-A07588389A0B@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: On 03/01/2006, at 8:36 AM, Beth Katz wrote (in part): > I don't see an overall slowness, but I'm not surfing "fancy" sites. > You might try setting site preferences for some sites. Or cut back > on how much history you're saving. Or don't have as many tabs in each > workspace. Or use workspaces. History length seemed to really affect > my speed when I changed it months ago. These are good tips, thankyou. I use workspaces, but they have a lot of tabs each. I may have to split them. My daughter's sites are graphics-heavy. I haven't looked at the history setting, but definitely worth changing it if it will speed up performance. I have general prefs set not to load images, which does help. Sites for which I need the images, have their own prefs. from Clytie Clytie Siddall -- Renmark, in the Riverland of South Australia From clytie at riverland.net.au Mon Jan 2 18:57:44 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Mon Jan 2 18:57:54 2006 Subject: Workspaces and speed (was: Re: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: <7DAE2418-E567-463A-8FD4-694C1A8328A5@comcast.net> References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> <7DAE2418-E567-463A-8FD4-694C1A8328A5@comcast.net> Message-ID: On 03/01/2006, at 9:58 AM, Forrest Corbett wrote: > Since upgrading myself from a dual 800/1.25GB to a dual 2.7/4.5GB, > OW scales MUCH better. Yes, can't wait for the faster laptops. :) (I'm stuck in bed, so I can't use a desktop.) My iBook G4 1.2GHz/1.25GB RAM struggles with workspaces of minimum 20 tabs. These are OSS translation projects, and require monitoring/using a lot of different sites/pages. If I split my workspaces, I'll be frustrated because the things I need to use together aren't in the same workspace. I'm not sure how to deal with that. I've already cut out all my search-based pages, by saving search shortcuts and putting them in the search field on the toolbar, but don't know how I can reduce any of the other pages. Download pages, status pages, up-to-date information, content management ... I think there will be many people working on projects or in situations that require more than 20 tabs in a workspace. from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) Want your OSS translated? Send it to the Translation Project (free, fast and friendly): http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/translation/ From vanderleun at comcast.net Mon Jan 2 20:49:19 2006 From: vanderleun at comcast.net (Gerard Vanderleun) Date: Mon Jan 2 20:49:22 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> <3F4BF981-2152-4F4E-A456-A07588389A0B@cs.millersville.edu> Message-ID: <8bdbc3b2bb8a32b822a7ac909e937f97@comcast.net> I've found that dumping the history every so often does actually give, for a bit, an increase in speed. For that I thank a tipster in this exchange from yesterday. I've just gone to preferences and set the history panel to dump the history on quit. That should increase performances as well. On Jan 2, 2006, at 6:49 PM, Clytie Siddall wrote: > I haven't looked at the history setting, but definitely worth changing > it if it will speed up performance. > Gerard Van der Leun http://americandigest.org From cpwoodford at spamcop.net Tue Jan 3 19:30:34 2006 From: cpwoodford at spamcop.net (Chris & Paul Woodford) Date: Tue Jan 3 20:34:55 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> <7DAE2418-E567-463A-8FD4-694C1A8328A5@comcast.net> <62be438e068619b31056bcd3ae24c113@comcast.net> Message-ID: At 5:56 PM -0800 1/2/06, Forrest Corbett wrote: >The "engine way down" is WebCore, same as Safari. This statement is a bit misleading. It was the same as Safari when it was released a year ago (with the changes that give us the OmniWeb goodness), but it isn't now. Looking at the release notes at it appears that the WebCore on which OmniWeb is based is the version that was used in Safari 1.2. Significant enhancements have been made since then. I use OmniWeb 90% of the time because of its unique features, but there are some times when it is just too slow relative to other browsers. This is very obvious on my 500 MHz G3 iMac on a dial-up connection at home, but it is also evident on my 1.8 GHz G5 PowerMac on a T-something at work. Paul From fcorbett at comcast.net Tue Jan 3 23:17:17 2006 From: fcorbett at comcast.net (Forrest Corbett) Date: Tue Jan 3 23:17:22 2006 Subject: Why is Omniweb Just the Pokey Puppy of Browsers In-Reply-To: References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <2d4d03b4871dee2989285342b029eda7@comcast.net> <7DAE2418-E567-463A-8FD4-694C1A8328A5@comcast.net> <62be438e068619b31056bcd3ae24c113@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Jan 3, 2006, at 7:30 PM, Chris & Paul Woodford wrote: > it appears that the WebCore on which OmniWeb is based is the > version that was used in Safari 1.2. Significant enhancements have > been made since then. Perhaps I should have added more emphasis to "they haven't been able to integrate each WebCore update quite so quickly." ;o) -Forrest From bullen.r at comcast.net Wed Jan 4 12:26:58 2006 From: bullen.r at comcast.net (Richard Bullen) Date: Wed Jan 4 12:27:03 2006 Subject: OmniWeb-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: <200601042000.k04K0Eqd019635@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: > I use OmniWeb 90% of the time because of its unique features As a matter of interest, since I'm evaluating OW at the moment, what are the unique features of the application? Excluding the drawer with the workspaces. Richard Bullen From katz at cs.millersville.edu Wed Jan 4 12:59:55 2006 From: katz at cs.millersville.edu (Beth Katz) Date: Wed Jan 4 13:05:03 2006 Subject: Unique features In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't usually use other browsers, so I'm not sure what's truly unique. However, I wanted to clarify the "drawer with the workspaces" comment. As you're reading and becoming familiar with OmniWeb, realize that the things in the drawer are tabs. Workspaces are something different. In OmniWeb, a user can have multiple workspaces. Each workspace is like a document that groups together related information. For example, I have a workspace for course web page management, another for a web site I manage, and then another for my default browsing. Each workspace can save its current state when OmniWeb quits or it can revert back to a known snapshot state. In my case, my default reverts but the others remember where they were when I was last using them. Each workspace can have many browser windows. A browser window may have tabs in the drawer. Each tab displays a web page and has its own forward and backward information. Changing web pages is as simple as clicking on a tab. The tabs provide a visual index into loaded web pages. By having a default workspace with many tabs in its remembered state, whenever I launch OmniWeb, I get several pages loading at once. I can glance through them and see what's loaded and some status information. This default is easily rearranged and changed, so it seems more useful to me than a personal web portal page. Another feature I find helpful is site-specific preferences. I tend to block images on page load. However, I have some sites where the images are why I'm there. I can allow those sites to load the images while blocking the vast majority of images on other sites. If some site insists on a particular browser, I can have OmniWeb present as some other browser but only to that site. Beth Katz On Jan 4, 2006, at 3:26 PM, Richard Bullen wrote: >> I use OmniWeb 90% of the time because of its unique features > > As a matter of interest, since I'm evaluating OW at the moment, > what are > the unique features of the application? Excluding the drawer with the > workspaces. > > Richard Bullen > _______________________________________________ > OmniWeb-l mailing list > OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l From jimwg at mac.com Wed Jan 4 15:26:54 2006 From: jimwg at mac.com (James Greenidge) Date: Wed Jan 4 15:50:42 2006 Subject: 2nd Request One-Stop Print-To-PDF In-Reply-To: <200511022000.jA2K0Hqf026840@slowbro.omnigroup.com> References: <200511022000.jA2K0Hqf026840@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: Greetings and Happy New Year: I'd like to know how hard is it to create a OPTIONAL button I could put on OW's menu bar to, in one fell stroke, print to PDF whatever's on my screen, No intermediate steps, no boxes of where to place it, no nothing. I hit the button and boom! PDF's on my desktop. Pure and simple. (to those bound to ask why I need such a button -- hey, _I_ need such a button, period). Suggestions: A way to optionally set Open A New Tab when clicking on a hotlink without having to hit the Command key. One/Two mouse clicks boom! opens a new tab. Create an auto-send e-mail OW crash report so I don't have to be bothered by Eudora popping up for one each time I restart a crashed OW. OmniWeb engineers, happy new year and I know it's going to be a rough one for you with all these super-flexible free open-source browsers popping up out there! I'll supply as many suggestions I can to help you keep ahead with your worth! James Greenidge From vanderleun at comcast.net Wed Jan 4 16:02:55 2006 From: vanderleun at comcast.net (Gerard Vanderleun) Date: Wed Jan 4 16:03:13 2006 Subject: 2nd Request One-Stop Print-To-PDF In-Reply-To: References: <200511022000.jA2K0Hqf026840@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: On my Macintosh and every other Mac I've used, my Print dialogue has a "save to PDF" button that does indeed safe whatever is on my screen to a PDF file on the desktop. I don't know about PCs but I suspect many have the same option. That being the case, a dedicated button on OW's menu bar would seem to be redundant. On Jan 4, 2006, at 3:26 PM, James Greenidge wrote: > > Greetings and Happy New Year: > > I'd like to know how hard is it to create a OPTIONAL button I could > put on OW's menu bar to, in one fell stroke, print to PDF whatever's > on my screen, No intermediate steps, no boxes of where to place it, no > nothing. I hit the button and boom! PDF's on my desktop. Pure and > simple. > > (to those bound to ask why I need such a button -- hey, _I_ need such > a button, period). > > Suggestions: > > A way to optionally set Open A New Tab when clicking on a hotlink > without having to hit the Command key. One/Two mouse clicks boom! > opens a new tab. > > Create an auto-send e-mail OW crash report so I don't have to be > bothered by Eudora popping up for one each time I restart a crashed > OW. > > OmniWeb engineers, happy new year and I know it's going to be a rough > one for you with all these super-flexible free open-source browsers > popping up out there! I'll supply as many suggestions I can to help > you keep ahead with your worth! > > James Greenidge > > > _______________________________________________ > OmniWeb-l mailing list > OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l > > Gerard Van der Leun http://americandigest.org From Cybernettr at aol.com Wed Jan 4 16:39:42 2006 From: Cybernettr at aol.com (Cybernettr@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 4 16:39:51 2006 Subject: Auto opening tabs and PHPBB2 forums Message-ID: Greetings all, Before a clean reinstall of my MacOS (still at 10.2.8), when I quit OmniWeb with tabs open, it would remember that state and reload the same pages into tabs upon restarting, even after a crash. It doesn't do that anymore.I have looked up and down the preferences but can find that option. Another strange thing. On a certain PHPBB2 bulletin board, when I click the "Reply" button, instead of taking me to the reply form, it dumps me into the main forum listing. This just recently started happening. It happens on two macs with two slightly different versions of OW, but it doesn't happen with other browsers. I haven't tested this with other forums that use the PHPBB2 software, but it doesn't seem to happen on other types of boards, such as EZBoards. Any solutions? Thanks. From katz at cs.millersville.edu Wed Jan 4 16:48:22 2006 From: katz at cs.millersville.edu (Beth Katz) Date: Wed Jan 4 16:48:29 2006 Subject: Auto opening tabs and PHPBB2 forums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <37DBA4C1-A58A-416B-9700-D4AA114D2099@cs.millersville.edu> I'm not sure about the other problem, but this one is fixed by having the workspace auto-save while browsing. Go to the Workspace menu item and choose Show Workspaces. Click on the workspace you want to modify and select "auto-save while browsing". Or if you don't want that feature, turn it off. Beth Katz On Jan 4, 2006, at 7:39 PM, Cybernettr@aol.com wrote: > Before a clean reinstall of my MacOS (still at 10.2.8), when I quit > OmniWeb > with tabs open, it would remember that state and reload the same > pages into > tabs upon restarting, even after a crash. It doesn't do that > anymore.I have > looked up and down the preferences but can find that option. From fcorbett at comcast.net Wed Jan 4 16:53:12 2006 From: fcorbett at comcast.net (Forrest Corbett) Date: Wed Jan 4 16:53:17 2006 Subject: 2nd Request One-Stop Print-To-PDF In-Reply-To: References: <200511022000.jA2K0Hqf026840@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <64452B0B-2EA2-436A-B9CB-F5DCCF5FA80C@comcast.net> On Jan 4, 2006, at 3:26 PM, James Greenidge wrote: > (to those bound to ask why I need such a button -- hey, _I_ need > such a button, period). What's with that sentiment? You're posting suggestions to a discussion list. If you're not open to discussion around it, why not just send your suggestions directly to the appropriate address, omniweb5@omnigroup.com, instead? http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omniweb/support/ -Forrest From fcorbett at comcast.net Wed Jan 4 16:55:56 2006 From: fcorbett at comcast.net (Forrest Corbett) Date: Wed Jan 4 16:56:01 2006 Subject: Unique features In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Beth gave some good details on a few specific features. I'll provide a list that I haven't seen in other browsers I've tried. I don't keep up-to-date on all of the Firefox extension. I am also not keen on losing functionality when a browser update comes out, so I don't use a browser if I have to rely on extensions (other than for testing.) Some of these may be included with extensions/haxies, but they're built into OW. - Customizable ad blocking - Save browsing sessions - Bookmarks synced via WebDAV - RSS feed updates indicated on dock icon - Editable source viewer with redisplay and other capabilities - Site preferences - Customizable search strings/shortcuts - Cookie management (more detailed than other browsers I've seen) - Zoomed text editor - Enable/disable plugins with ease - Ability to drag images directly onto Photoshop's dock icon - Extensive contextual menu options -Forrest From clytie at riverland.net.au Wed Jan 4 20:39:50 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Wed Jan 4 20:40:02 2006 Subject: 2nd Request One-Stop Print-To-PDF In-Reply-To: References: <200511022000.jA2K0Hqf026840@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <4DC04945-4D37-41BD-9B82-F341C6EEDCCB@riverland.net.au> On 05/01/2006, at 10:32 AM, Gerard Vanderleun wrote: > On my Macintosh and every other Mac I've used, my Print dialogue > has a "save to PDF" button that does indeed safe whatever is on my > screen to a PDF file on the desktop. This is a hot feature, along with the Fax option. Print, Save to PDF or Fax! Not everyone using OW may have it, though, because it appeared later in OSX. Panther, I think. (I've found each OSX update well worth the money: it's an OS that continues to develop impressively.) So, Cmd-P and press a button. :) I haven't used the PDF option in Print, so I don't know if it requires you to make further choices. If so, a Workflow via Automator will be viable, if the applications involved all support Workflows. Create your Workflow, bung it in a contextual menu or wherever you like, then run it with one click! from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN From beingnonbeing at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 4 22:27:35 2006 From: beingnonbeing at bellsouth.net (alex bueno) Date: Wed Jan 4 22:27:47 2006 Subject: 2nd Request One-Stop Print-To-PDF In-Reply-To: References: <200511022000.jA2K0Hqf026840@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: I'm not sure I see the need for this either. OW does have a shortcut (shift+option+cmd+s, which you can see in the file menu by holding the option key) that saves the current page to PDF. This though doesn't seem to go through the printing mechanism; I think it just dumps OW's rendering of the page into a one-page PDF -- often a one very long PDF not suitable for printing or viewing. But the keystroke is about as (perhaps more) useful than a toolbar button. Incidentally, has anyone managed to applescript printing to PDF. I'd love to be able to dump all tabs of a browser into a folder as PDFs. I tried using GUI scripting and I couldn't get it manage all the dialogs (not that I'm a script guru or anything ...) afb On 04 Jan 2006, at 7:02 pm, Gerard Vanderleun wrote: > On my Macintosh and every other Mac I've used, my Print dialogue > has a "save to PDF" button that does indeed safe whatever is on my > screen to a PDF file on the desktop. I don't know about PCs but I > suspect many have the same option. > > That being the case, a dedicated button on OW's menu bar would seem > to be redundant. > > > On Jan 4, 2006, at 3:26 PM, James Greenidge wrote: > >> >> Greetings and Happy New Year: >> >> I'd like to know how hard is it to create a OPTIONAL button I >> could put on OW's menu bar to, in one fell stroke, print to PDF >> whatever's on my screen, No intermediate steps, no boxes of where >> to place it, no nothing. I hit the button and boom! PDF's on my >> desktop. Pure and simple. >> >> (to those bound to ask why I need such a button -- hey, _I_ need >> such a button, period). >> >> Suggestions: >> >> A way to optionally set Open A New Tab when clicking on a hotlink >> without having to hit the Command key. One/Two mouse clicks boom! >> opens a new tab. >> >> Create an auto-send e-mail OW crash report so I don't have to be >> bothered by Eudora popping up for one each time I restart a >> crashed OW. >> >> OmniWeb engineers, happy new year and I know it's going to be a >> rough one for you with all these super-flexible free open-source >> browsers popping up out there! I'll supply as many suggestions I >> can to help you keep ahead with your worth! >> >> James Greenidge >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniWeb-l mailing list >> OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l >> >> > Gerard Van der Leun > > http://americandigest.org > _______________________________________________ > OmniWeb-l mailing list > OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l From bullen.r at comcast.net Wed Jan 4 23:19:48 2006 From: bullen.r at comcast.net (Richard Bullen) Date: Wed Jan 4 23:19:53 2006 Subject: Unique Features - Thanks for responses Message-ID: > > I use OmniWeb 90% of the time because of its unique features > > As a matter of interest, since I'm evaluating OW at the moment, what are > the unique features of the application? Excluding the drawer with the > workspaces. > > Richard Bullen Thanks to everyone who took the time and trouble to respond to my question. I really appreciate the help. Regards, Richard Bullen From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Thu Jan 5 03:47:44 2006 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene) Date: Thu Jan 5 03:47:50 2006 Subject: Unique features In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060105114744.GD317@dark-age.linksys> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 02:59:55PM CST, Beth Katz wrote: : : Another feature I find helpful is site-specific preferences. : I tend to block images on page load. However, I have some sites : where the images are why I'm there. I can allow those sites to : load the images while blocking the vast majority of images on : other sites. If some site insists on a particular browser, I can : have OmniWeb present as some other browser but only to that site. I'd like OW to extend the notion of image blocking to non-image content. Specifically, Flash content. Although they are small and offer a lot more interesting features, they can be CPU hogs if they run continously (e.g. Flash animations that are nothing more than endlessly-looping animated GIFs). -- Eugene http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From gumby at henkel-wallace.org Thu Jan 5 04:04:20 2006 From: gumby at henkel-wallace.org (DV Henkel-Wallace) Date: Thu Jan 5 04:05:33 2006 Subject: Unique features In-Reply-To: <20060105114744.GD317@dark-age.linksys> References: <20060105114744.GD317@dark-age.linksys> Message-ID: I have added .swf to my ad-blocking preferences and it blocks most of them. On Jan 5, 2006, at 03:47 , Eugene wrote: > On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 02:59:55PM CST, Beth Katz > wrote: > : > : Another feature I find helpful is site-specific preferences. > : I tend to block images on page load. However, I have some sites > : where the images are why I'm there. I can allow those sites to > : load the images while blocking the vast majority of images on > : other sites. If some site insists on a particular browser, I can > : have OmniWeb present as some other browser but only to that site. > > I'd like OW to extend the notion of image blocking to non-image > content. Specifically, Flash content. Although they are small > and offer a lot more interesting features, they can be CPU hogs > if they run continously (e.g. Flash animations that are nothing > more than endlessly-looping animated GIFs). > > > -- > Eugene > http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ > _______________________________________________ > OmniWeb-l mailing list > OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l > From fcorbett at comcast.net Thu Jan 5 10:51:07 2006 From: fcorbett at comcast.net (Forrest Corbett) Date: Thu Jan 5 10:51:11 2006 Subject: Unique features In-Reply-To: References: <20060105114744.GD317@dark-age.linksys> Message-ID: On Jan 5, 2006, at 4:04 AM, DV Henkel-Wallace wrote: > I have added .swf to my ad-blocking preferences and it blocks most > of them. I did that for a while. It seemed to block more stuff I wanted than not. What would be interesting is if there's a way they can control the looping of Flash. This would be akin to how they control the looping of GIFs. That way we can see it a set number of times, and if it's in the background it stops playing as to not hog CPU. -Forrest From gumby at henkel-wallace.org Thu Jan 5 10:53:52 2006 From: gumby at henkel-wallace.org (DV Henkel-Wallace) Date: Thu Jan 5 10:55:38 2006 Subject: Unique features In-Reply-To: References: <20060105114744.GD317@dark-age.linksys> Message-ID: <04FBF45E-C5ED-41E2-9DE4-CF01756E5501@henkel-wallace.org> On Jan 5, 2006, at 10:51 , Forrest Corbett wrote: > On Jan 5, 2006, at 4:04 AM, DV Henkel-Wallace wrote: > >> I have added .swf to my ad-blocking preferences and it blocks most >> of them. > > I did that for a while. It seemed to block more stuff I wanted than > not. What would be interesting is if there's a way they can control > the looping of Flash. This would be akin to how they control the > looping of GIFs. That way we can see it a set number of times, and > if it's in the background it stops playing as to not hog CPU. I agree that would be ideal. From derekcurrie at mac.com Thu Jan 5 13:04:17 2006 From: derekcurrie at mac.com (Derek Currie) Date: Thu Jan 5 13:04:34 2006 Subject: Windows Vista's IE 7 Imitates OmniWeb In-Reply-To: <200601052000.k05K0Jqe025724@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: This is kind of fun, so I thought I would share it. The great David Pogue posted a Circuits email article this afternoon from CES, where he will be doing reporting all week. In today's email (which you can access at ) he discusses the Bill Gates & cohorts keynote from last night. Several aspects of Vista that were directly "stolen from Apple" are pointed out. It is all quite amusing. But at one point Mr. Pogue made an apparent error. He had begun a section in the article discussing ideas in Vista that actually appeared to be original. Sadly, in one case he was apparently mistaken. Here is the relevant paragraph: > * Thumbnail tabbed browsing. Internet Explorer will finally get tabbed > browsing (a feature that Firefox, Safari and other browsers have had > for years), in which you can keep multiple Web pages open at once, all > in the same window; you switch from one to the next by clicking little > file-folder tabs at the top. But in the Vista browser, you can also > view all your tabbed Web pages as window miniatures, so that you can > jump to one according to what it looks like (rather than just its > name). A great idea. Window miniatures is a great idea isn't it! And it originated in OmniWeb years ago. I sent Mr. Pogue a note about this fact and offered to send him screen shots if they would be helpful. Of course I have not yet seen the Vista implementation of window miniatures, but so far I am not hearing anything I can't already do in OmniWeb. Share and Enjoy! :-Derek ================ Derek Currie derekcurrie@mac.com ================ Fortune Magazine, 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today? Frederick Brooks: I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been equalled for ease of use, and I want my computer to be a tool, not a challenge. [Frederick Brooks is the author of 'The Mythical Man Month'. He spearheaded the movement to modernize computer software engineering in 1975] From larkost at softhome.net Thu Jan 5 13:39:37 2006 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl J. Kuehn) Date: Thu Jan 5 13:41:11 2006 Subject: Windows Vista's IE 7 Imitates OmniWeb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A807E37-2A3D-4D5A-8FD1-7DC6C8B2F0B0@softhome.net> On Jan 5, 2006, at 4:04 PM, Derek Currie wrote: >> * Thumbnail tabbed browsing. Internet Explorer will finally get >> tabbed browsing (a feature that Firefox, Safari and other browsers >> have had for years), in which you can keep multiple Web pages open >> at once, all in the same window; you switch from one to the next >> by clicking little file-folder tabs at the top. But in the Vista >> browser, you can also view all your tabbed Web pages as window >> miniatures, so that you can jump to one according to what it looks >> like (rather than just its name). A great idea. > > Window miniatures is a great idea isn't it! > > And it originated in OmniWeb years ago. Actually, I belive that a browser over on the windows side had that feature first. I believe I mentions this at one point on the OmniWeb- l or one of the beta lists before OW 5 came out. A little checking arround did not net me the name of the browser, so I can't provide a link, but it was there. Karl Kuehn larkost@vet.upenn.edu From hyperjeff at mac.com Thu Jan 5 13:57:31 2006 From: hyperjeff at mac.com (Jeff Biggus) Date: Thu Jan 5 13:57:36 2006 Subject: Windows Vista's IE 7 Imitates OmniWeb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3c1d070b4b1833963613aac2730950f8@mac.com> On Jan 5, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Derek Currie wrote: > Window miniatures is a great idea isn't it! > And it originated in OmniWeb years ago. If it makes the OmniGuys feel better, people have been mentioning OW on all the forums I've seen where the issue has come up today (along with late-comers to this feature, Opera and Shiira). Good viral marketing for OW, actually. -jeff From jtyzack at mac.com Thu Jan 5 14:32:16 2006 From: jtyzack at mac.com (Jonathan Tyzack) Date: Thu Jan 5 14:32:27 2006 Subject: Windows Vista's IE 7 Imitates OmniWeb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9B342290-04DB-442A-8CD8-2F3F5975FA01@mac.com> Hi, I watched as much of the keynote as I could bear (a little over half) and it was as if parts of all the Apple Keynotes of the past 4 to 5 years were being repeated as though they had never occurred. There was little to nothing demonstrated in Vista that hasn't been available in OS X and the iApps for over a year and a lot of it for about 4 years. The main difference is that the way it has been done in Vista is pretty badly implemented with a few exceptions (an always on view slider to adjust image icon sizes in the Finder would be very useful). If Vista doesn't offer much more than shown, then MS has barely even caught up to OS X... and from the screenshots, the font rendering still blows chunks. What is even more amusing is that MS is making the same mistakes with transparency in title bars etc that Apple did with the earlier versions of OS X, only in huge spadefuls. The glass interface is *appalling* for being full of visual clutter and confusion. It is all about doing something because they can rather than because it is of any use. Their version of Expos? is a joke as well... take all the windows open on screen and make it so that you can only see the content of the very front one and no others! Way to go. If Apple were in the frame of mind to sue over UI patents, they could have MS's arse over their "stacks" of icons implementation - yup, collapsed piles of file types are used all over the place in Vista... FWIW, the IE7 tab thumbnails are a really stupid implementation - they make the content disappear when you view them (i.e. they replace the window's content with an equivalent of the OS X Finder icon layout). They aren't always on view like in OmniWeb. Instead a standard tab bar across the already cluttered toolbar that every other browser uses (other than OmniWeb) is present. Cheers, Jonathan On 5 Jan 2006, at 21:04, Derek Currie wrote: > This is kind of fun, so I thought I would share it. > > The great David Pogue posted a Circuits email article this > afternoon from CES, where he will be doing reporting all week. In > today's email (which you can access at circuitsemail>) he discusses the Bill Gates & cohorts keynote from > last night. Several aspects of Vista that were directly "stolen > from Apple" are pointed out. It is all quite amusing. > > But at one point Mr. Pogue made an apparent error. He had begun a > section in the article discussing ideas in Vista that actually > appeared to be original. Sadly, in one case he was apparently > mistaken. Here is the relevant paragraph: > >> * Thumbnail tabbed browsing. Internet Explorer will finally get >> tabbed browsing (a feature that Firefox, Safari and other browsers >> have had for years), in which you can keep multiple Web pages open >> at once, all in the same window; you switch from one to the next >> by clicking little file-folder tabs at the top. But in the Vista >> browser, you can also view all your tabbed Web pages as window >> miniatures, so that you can jump to one according to what it looks >> like (rather than just its name). A great idea. > > Window miniatures is a great idea isn't it! > > And it originated in OmniWeb years ago. > > I sent Mr. Pogue a note about this fact and offered to send him > screen shots if they would be helpful. Of course I have not yet > seen the Vista implementation of window miniatures, but so far I am > not hearing anything I can't already do in OmniWeb. > > Share and Enjoy! > > :-Derek > > > ================ > Derek Currie > derekcurrie@mac.com > > ================ > Fortune Magazine, 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today? > Frederick Brooks: I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been equalled > for ease of use, and I want my computer to be a tool, not a challenge. > > [Frederick Brooks is the author of 'The Mythical Man Month'. He > spearheaded the movement to modernize computer software engineering > in 1975] > _______________________________________________ > OmniWeb-l mailing list > OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l ------------ Please visit The Land Gallery for British Fine Art inspired by nature and landscape: http://www.thelandgallery.com From public at subtraction.com Wed Jan 4 17:10:53 2006 From: public at subtraction.com (Khoi Vinh) Date: Thu Jan 5 14:48:38 2006 Subject: 2nd Request One-Stop Print-To-PDF In-Reply-To: <64452B0B-2EA2-436A-B9CB-F5DCCF5FA80C@comcast.net> Message-ID: >> (to those bound to ask why I need such a button -- hey, _I_ need >> such a button, period). > > What's with that sentiment? You're posting suggestions to a > discussion list. If you're not open to discussion around it, why not > just send your suggestions directly to the appropriate address, > omniweb5@omnigroup.com, instead? To be fair, I don't think he's being obstinate or intentionally rude. I think he was just trying to keep the focus on the idea that a single-click method of creating a PDF from the current page that is automatically saved to the desktop is a great idea. And I happen to agree with him. It's a great idea and I want that feature too. And as for it being a topic appropriate for this discussion list: it seemed worthwhile to me, as I'd never thought of it before and I'd be very keen to hear any discussion on its feasibility. Best, Khoi play: www.subtraction.com From jtyzack at mac.com Thu Jan 5 15:28:46 2006 From: jtyzack at mac.com (Jonathan Tyzack) Date: Thu Jan 5 15:28:53 2006 Subject: Windows Vista's IE 7 Imitates OmniWeb In-Reply-To: <8A807E37-2A3D-4D5A-8FD1-7DC6C8B2F0B0@softhome.net> References: <8A807E37-2A3D-4D5A-8FD1-7DC6C8B2F0B0@softhome.net> Message-ID: Hi, yup, there was/is a Windows browser that has thumbnail tabs and did so before OmniWeb was released or sneaky peeked, but whether or not they had the original idea is up to debate as it only started being referenced in one of the mammoth MacNN threads on the idea of tab thumbnails many, many months after it started. IIRC, some linux browser(s) mentioned in the same thread also had implementations as well but it was a long time ago... I think this was the thread but the images that were posted in it are (unsurprisingly) long gone: http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=125205&highlight=omniweb+tabs +thumbnails curmi's mock-ups are still there though and proved to be surprisingly accurate as a prediction (this was long before OmniWeb 5 was actually released btw): http://homepage.mac.com/curmi/.Pictures/tabbedsmall.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/curmi/.Pictures/tabbed.jpg Alternatively, it may have been in this thread though I'm not willing to scan through 777 posts just to find out ;-) ...ah, the good old days of sneaky peeking! http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=154931&highlight=omniweb+tabs +thumbnails Cheers, Jonathan On 5 Jan 2006, at 21:39, Karl J. Kuehn wrote: > On Jan 5, 2006, at 4:04 PM, Derek Currie wrote: > >>> * Thumbnail tabbed browsing. Internet Explorer will finally get >>> tabbed browsing (a feature that Firefox, Safari and other >>> browsers have had for years), in which you can keep multiple Web >>> pages open at once, all in the same window; you switch from one >>> to the next by clicking little file-folder tabs at the top. But >>> in the Vista browser, you can also view all your tabbed Web pages >>> as window miniatures, so that you can jump to one according to >>> what it looks like (rather than just its name). A great idea. >> >> Window miniatures is a great idea isn't it! >> >> And it originated in OmniWeb years ago. > > Actually, I belive that a browser over on the windows side had > that feature first. I believe I mentions this at one point on the > OmniWeb-l or one of the beta lists before OW 5 came out. A little > checking arround did not net me the name of the browser, so I can't > provide a link, but it was there. > > Karl Kuehn > larkost@vet.upenn.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > OmniWeb-l mailing list > OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l ------------ Please visit The Land Gallery for British Fine Art inspired by nature and landscape: http://www.thelandgallery.com From netsec at omnigroup.com Thu Jan 5 15:44:26 2006 From: netsec at omnigroup.com (netsec@omnigroup.com) Date: Thu Jan 5 15:44:28 2006 Subject: The Omni Group is hiring a QA person Message-ID: <891128CA-E49E-4E52-8DF1-B0D13C7B29FC@omnigroup.com> Interested parties should check our website for more info. If you have any questions, feel free to send them to . Sincerely, Brian C. Support & QA Manager Omni Group From vanderleun at comcast.net Thu Jan 5 15:53:37 2006 From: vanderleun at comcast.net (Gerard Vanderleun) Date: Thu Jan 5 15:53:52 2006 Subject: The Omni Group is hiring a QA person In-Reply-To: <891128CA-E49E-4E52-8DF1-B0D13C7B29FC@omnigroup.com> References: <891128CA-E49E-4E52-8DF1-B0D13C7B29FC@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: Sounds like a great company and I didn't know it was here in my new home in Seattle. Alas, I have more Q than A. On Jan 5, 2006, at 3:44 PM, netsec@omnigroup.com wrote: > Interested parties should check our website for more info. > > > If you have any questions, feel free to send them to > . > > Sincerely, > > Brian C. > Support & QA Manager > Omni Group > > _______________________________________________ > OmniWeb-l mailing list > OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l > > Gerard Van der Leun http://americandigest.org From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Thu Jan 5 16:08:55 2006 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene) Date: Thu Jan 5 16:09:12 2006 Subject: 2nd Request One-Stop Print-To-PDF In-Reply-To: References: <64452B0B-2EA2-436A-B9CB-F5DCCF5FA80C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20060106000855.GG317@dark-age.linksys> On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 07:10:53PM CST, Khoi Vinh wrote: : : >> (to those bound to ask why I need such a button -- hey, _I_ need : >> such a button, period). : > : > What's with that sentiment? You're posting suggestions to a : > discussion list. If you're not open to discussion around it, why not : > just send your suggestions directly to the appropriate address, : > omniweb5@omnigroup.com, instead? : : To be fair, I don't think he's being obstinate or intentionally rude. I : think he was just trying to keep the focus on the idea that a single-click : method of creating a PDF from the current page that is automatically saved : to the desktop is a great idea. And I happen to agree with him. It's a great : idea and I want that feature too. One-click saving web page content isn't a big priority for me because it's something I rarely do. Now what I'd like is the ability to SAVE a web page as an MHTML file (RFC 2557). -- Eugene (registered OW user) From clytie at riverland.net.au Thu Jan 5 19:12:44 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Thu Jan 5 19:12:55 2006 Subject: [frivolous] Re: The Omni Group is hiring a QA person In-Reply-To: <891128CA-E49E-4E52-8DF1-B0D13C7B29FC@omnigroup.com> References: <891128CA-E49E-4E52-8DF1-B0D13C7B29FC@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: On 06/01/2006, at 10:14 AM, netsec@omnigroup.com wrote: > Interested parties should check our website for more info. > Hey, we've been doing OW QA for ages! Does this mean we get back-pay? :D from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN From jtyzack at mac.com Fri Jan 6 08:03:40 2006 From: jtyzack at mac.com (Jonathan Tyzack) Date: Fri Jan 6 08:03:47 2006 Subject: Use the scroll wheel to resize fonts? Message-ID: From this hint: http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/macosxhints/2006/01/browsetext/index.php Very nifty. Would like to see in OW. Cheers, Jonathan ------------ Please visit The Land Gallery for British Fine Art inspired by nature and landscape: http://www.thelandgallery.com From fcorbett at comcast.net Fri Jan 6 10:35:24 2006 From: fcorbett at comcast.net (Forrest Corbett) Date: Fri Jan 6 10:35:28 2006 Subject: feature change/request: cancel option for replace password Message-ID: <168D8797-260C-4415-8E6C-9031B1285129@comcast.net> When submitting a form and I have entered a password other than what's been stored, the user is given the options to replace the saved password. The options are: "Never for this Website" "Don't Replace" "Replace" I would like a "Cancel" button as well. Sometimes OW doesn't autofill the password, and I end up guessing. When I get this message, it means I was wrong. So having a cancel button would allow me to go back to the page and try again, without having to wait for the login process to tell me. -Forrest From trevor at vocaro.com Fri Jan 6 11:00:46 2006 From: trevor at vocaro.com (Trevor Harmon) Date: Fri Jan 6 11:01:12 2006 Subject: feature change/request: cancel option for replace password In-Reply-To: <168D8797-260C-4415-8E6C-9031B1285129@comcast.net> References: <168D8797-260C-4415-8E6C-9031B1285129@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Jan 6, 2006, at 10:35 AM, Forrest Corbett wrote: > I would like a "Cancel" button as well. Sometimes OW doesn't > autofill the password, and I end up guessing. When I get this > message, it means I was wrong. That doesn't mean you were wrong; it only means the username/password you entered is different from what OmniWeb previously remembered. Only the website knows whether you are wrong, so I don't see how a Cancel button in OmniWeb would help. If you just want to find out what OmniWeb had remembered before, you can get that from the Keychain. Trevor From fcorbett at comcast.net Fri Jan 6 11:16:39 2006 From: fcorbett at comcast.net (Forrest Corbett) Date: Fri Jan 6 11:16:44 2006 Subject: feature change/request: cancel option for replace password In-Reply-To: References: <168D8797-260C-4415-8E6C-9031B1285129@comcast.net> Message-ID: <74991CB3-F8D5-4304-8555-D896F2ED30A5@comcast.net> On Jan 6, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Trevor Harmon wrote: > That doesn't mean you were wrong; it only means the username/ > password you entered is different from what OmniWeb previously > remembered. Only the website knows whether you are wrong, so I > don't see how a Cancel button in OmniWeb would help. The last time I submitted the form it would have been accurate in the information. It's sort of the "why is something always in the last place I look?" type statement. If it wasn't, that would mean I kept looking after I found it. That is, of course, if the info hadn't changed since the last time the form was submitted. That happens very rarely (for me.) > If you just want to find out what OmniWeb had remembered before, > you can get that from the Keychain. True. However, if I'm concerned about saving time (eg, not having to wait for the site to go through the login process to tell me the password was incorrect) then digging through the keychain isn't an effective solution. -Forrest From katz at cs.millersville.edu Fri Jan 6 14:16:17 2006 From: katz at cs.millersville.edu (Beth Katz) Date: Fri Jan 6 14:16:22 2006 Subject: Discovercard.com Secure Online Account Numbers Message-ID: <7BC83F1E-A6DB-43CD-8B0E-5AF3719FF362@cs.millersville.edu> I've been shopping on the web and decided to use the Secure Online Account Numbers from Discovercard.com: http://www.discovercard.com/ I can log in to the account center and choose from the CashBack bonus options and such. That part works. But I want to login to the secure online account numbers portion (from the home page, click learn more and then launch). Or try: https://deskshop.discovercard.com/thincard/main_thinclient.html It eventually times out with a server error. Nothing is happening in the Network Activity window or in the error log. This works with Safari and Firefox. It does not work to have OmniWeb pretend to be Safari or anything else. I tried a variety of ad blocking and language settings. This was one of the times I needed to launch Firefox. Anybody else see this problem? I'm running OW 5.1.3 on a dual 1.42 GHz G4 with 1.5 GB of RAM. By the way, the secure online account numbers work very well. Each one is essentially bound to only one online vendor, so you aren't giving out your real account number everywhere. And you can decide to do it when you're in the process of checking out. Beth Katz From ace at tidbits.com Fri Jan 6 14:52:00 2006 From: ace at tidbits.com (Adam C. Engst) Date: Fri Jan 6 15:45:16 2006 Subject: feature change/request: cancel option for replace password In-Reply-To: <168D8797-260C-4415-8E6C-9031B1285129@comcast.net> References: <168D8797-260C-4415-8E6C-9031B1285129@comcast.net> Message-ID: >When submitting a form and I have entered a password other than >what's been stored, the user is given the options to replace the >saved password. The options are: >"Never for this Website" >"Don't Replace" >"Replace" > >I would like a "Cancel" button as well. Sometimes OW doesn't autofill >the password, and I end up guessing. When I get this message, it >means I was wrong. So having a cancel button would allow me to go >back to the page and try again, without having to wait for the login >process to tell me. I'm with Forrest on this one - I run into this problem every so often, and I too want to cancel and not submit the form at all since I know I've typed something wrong. Where this comes up, I think, is when I have multiple logins with different passwords at a site, and I need to switch between them. For that matter, in that situation, I wish OmniWeb would autofill with the most recently used entry, rather than the first alphabetical one. I have two accounts with eSellerate, "adamengst" and "takecontrol" and OmniWeb always wants to autofill "adamengst" even though I almost always want to log into "takecontrol". I think Safari bases it on last use, since it always autofills "takecontrol". cheers... -Adam -- New Take Control ebooks! ........... http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/ My latest ebook, "Take Control of Your Wi-Fi Security," is out! _____________________________________________________________________ Adam C. Engst: I publish TidBITS, write books, and make sure the ace@tidbits.com right people know each other in the Mac industry. Me: http://www.tidbits.com/adam/ TidBITS: http://www.tidbits.com/ From scott at omnigroup.com Fri Jan 6 17:00:12 2006 From: scott at omnigroup.com (Scott Maier) Date: Fri Jan 6 17:00:15 2006 Subject: QuickTime crashes In-Reply-To: <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> Message-ID: <3C903630-0D1B-4809-B816-346D3CF692EF@omnigroup.com> This is something we have tried to fix, but the bug appears to be Apple's. We are working with them to correct it but obviously at this time it remains an issue. For what it's worth, you should be able to avoid the crash by never having more than one window or tab with QuickTime content open. The crash happens when there are two or more QuickTime plug-in instances loaded on different pages. - Scott On Dec 29, 2005, at 12:54 PM, Piers Uso Walter wrote: > > On 29.12.2005, at 14:37, Trevor Harmon wrote: >> Many crashes that I experience with OmniWeb occur while playing >> back a QuickTime video or audio file embedded in a web page. ... >> Are others seeing this with OmniWeb, or is my QuickTime >> installation corrupted or something? > > Same here. The most common crash I experience happens when closing > a window that contained a QuickTime movie. Similar to your case, > this works most of the time. But when OmniWeb crashes, it's > ususally for this reason. > > With kind regards > > Piers > > -- > Piers Uso Walter > ilink Kommunikationssysteme GmbH From scott at omnigroup.com Fri Jan 6 17:14:49 2006 From: scott at omnigroup.com (Scott Maier) Date: Fri Jan 6 17:14:53 2006 Subject: Windows Vista's IE 7 Imitates OmniWeb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can watch the keynote here: But it is quite painful :-) Aside from being quite boring and awkward at times, it is also frustrating to see them fawning over a lot of stuff that has been around in some form on Mac OS X for years. The Windows Media Player sneak peek did look kind of interesting though, as it will contain a few features for library browsing that I wish were in iTunes. In any case, there is a brief demo if IE7 as well, and the thumbnail mode for tabs replaces the page you are currently viewing with a icon- view-like page of thumbnails. It's not a _bad_ thing, but not as good as being able to always have them on screen, IMO. Something similar to the page of thumbnails and/or something a little more Expose-like has been discussed for OmniWeb before, but we're still not at the add-new-features point just yet. We'll have an update on OmniWeb 5.5 soon. Oh, and iRider is the name of the first browser I ever saw with tab thumbnails. It's based on the IE engine in Windows. - Scott On Jan 5, 2006, at 1:04 PM, Derek Currie wrote: > This is kind of fun, so I thought I would share it. > > The great David Pogue posted a Circuits email article this > afternoon from CES, where he will be doing reporting all week. In > today's email (which you can access at circuitsemail>) he discusses the Bill Gates & cohorts keynote from > last night. Several aspects of Vista that were directly "stolen > from Apple" are pointed out. It is all quite amusing. > > But at one point Mr. Pogue made an apparent error. He had begun a > section in the article discussing ideas in Vista that actually > appeared to be original. Sadly, in one case he was apparently > mistaken. Here is the relevant paragraph: > >> * Thumbnail tabbed browsing. Internet Explorer will finally get >> tabbed browsing (a feature that Firefox, Safari and other browsers >> have had for years), in which you can keep multiple Web pages open >> at once, all in the same window; you switch from one to the next >> by clicking little file-folder tabs at the top. But in the Vista >> browser, you can also view all your tabbed Web pages as window >> miniatures, so that you can jump to one according to what it looks >> like (rather than just its name). A great idea. > > Window miniatures is a great idea isn't it! > > And it originated in OmniWeb years ago. > > I sent Mr. Pogue a note about this fact and offered to send him > screen shots if they would be helpful. Of course I have not yet > seen the Vista implementation of window miniatures, but so far I am > not hearing anything I can't already do in OmniWeb. > > Share and Enjoy! > > :-Derek > From katz at cs.millersville.edu Fri Jan 6 19:20:38 2006 From: katz at cs.millersville.edu (Beth Katz) Date: Fri Jan 6 19:20:43 2006 Subject: Windows Vista's IE 7 Imitates OmniWeb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6CB305EA-A12E-4B2D-B810-EBEA09906A9D@cs.millersville.edu> Scott, thank you for posting the iRider link. There are some intriguing features there and ways of presenting pages. Showing all the forward and back pages as thumbnails could get out of hand, but it could be really cool, too. Beth Katz On Jan 6, 2006, at 8:14 PM, Scott Maier wrote: > Oh, and iRider is the name of the first browser I ever saw with tab > thumbnails. > It's based on the IE engine in Windows. > From trevor at vocaro.com Fri Jan 6 20:27:46 2006 From: trevor at vocaro.com (Trevor Harmon) Date: Fri Jan 6 20:27:53 2006 Subject: feature change/request: cancel option for replace password In-Reply-To: References: <168D8797-260C-4415-8E6C-9031B1285129@comcast.net> Message-ID: <574A9637-DA80-42B2-A9B2-AD71070B6099@vocaro.com> On Jan 6, 2006, at 2:52 PM, Adam C. Engst wrote: > Where this comes up, I think, is when I have multiple logins with > different passwords at a site, and I need to switch between them. Okay, now that I can understand. But I think Mozilla has found a better solution to this than a cancel button. If two or more (different) logins have been autosaved for the same page, and then you return to that page, Mozilla will pop up a list of logins that you can select from. I like this approach because you don't have to go through all the trial and error you would with a cancel button. Trevor From jtyzack at mac.com Sat Jan 7 03:03:23 2006 From: jtyzack at mac.com (Jonathan Tyzack) Date: Sat Jan 7 03:03:33 2006 Subject: Windows Vista's IE 7 Imitates OmniWeb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5904AF8A-56D6-4031-8951-CD4474249E0F@mac.com> Hi Scott, that's the one... they have some interesting features implemented that I would like to see in OW - the nesting of links from the same site, especially so. Enjoy MacWorld if you folks are going. Cheers, Jonathan On 7 Jan 2006, at 01:14, Scott Maier wrote: > Oh, and iRider is the name of the first browser I ever saw with tab > thumbnails. It's based on the IE engine in Windows. > > > > - Scott > > > On Jan 5, 2006, at 1:04 PM, Derek Currie wrote: > >> This is kind of fun, so I thought I would share it. >> >> The great David Pogue posted a Circuits email article this >> afternoon from CES, where he will be doing reporting all week. In >> today's email (which you can access at > circuitsemail>) he discusses the Bill Gates & cohorts keynote from >> last night. Several aspects of Vista that were directly "stolen >> from Apple" are pointed out. It is all quite amusing. >> >> But at one point Mr. Pogue made an apparent error. He had begun a >> section in the article discussing ideas in Vista that actually >> appeared to be original. Sadly, in one case he was apparently >> mistaken. Here is the relevant paragraph: >> >>> * Thumbnail tabbed browsing. Internet Explorer will finally get >>> tabbed browsing (a feature that Firefox, Safari and other >>> browsers have had for years), in which you can keep multiple Web >>> pages open at once, all in the same window; you switch from one >>> to the next by clicking little file-folder tabs at the top. But >>> in the Vista browser, you can also view all your tabbed Web pages >>> as window miniatures, so that you can jump to one according to >>> what it looks like (rather than just its name). A great idea. >> >> Window miniatures is a great idea isn't it! >> >> And it originated in OmniWeb years ago. >> >> I sent Mr. Pogue a note about this fact and offered to send him >> screen shots if they would be helpful. Of course I have not yet >> seen the Vista implementation of window miniatures, but so far I >> am not hearing anything I can't already do in OmniWeb. >> >> Share and Enjoy! >> >> :-Derek >> > _______________________________________________ > OmniWeb-l mailing list > OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l ------------ Please visit The Land Gallery for British Fine Art inspired by nature and landscape: http://www.thelandgallery.com From omniweb at hicksdesign.co.uk Sat Jan 7 04:57:03 2006 From: omniweb at hicksdesign.co.uk (Jon Hicks) Date: Sat Jan 7 04:57:18 2006 Subject: Windows Vista's IE 7 Imitates OmniWeb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > but we're still not at the add-new-features point just yet. :o( > We'll have an update on OmniWeb 5.5 soon. :oD Cheers, Jon http://www.hicksdesign.co.uk/omniweb/ ----------------------------------------------- // hicksdesign Design for Print + New Media 10 pine rise / witney / oxon / OX28 1EY / uk T: +44 (0)7917 391 536* F: 0871 733 4594 (uk only) (*office closed on Fridays) Portfolio, blog & downloads: http://www.hicksdesign.co.uk ------------------------------------------------ On 7 Jan 2006, at 01:14, Scott Maier wrote: > > You can watch the keynote here: > > > > But it is quite painful :-) Aside from being quite boring and > awkward at times, it is also frustrating to see them fawning over a > lot of stuff that has been around in some form on Mac OS X for years. > > The Windows Media Player sneak peek did look kind of interesting > though, as it will contain a few features for library browsing that > I wish were in iTunes. > > In any case, there is a brief demo if IE7 as well, and the > thumbnail mode for tabs replaces the page you are currently viewing > with a icon-view-like page of thumbnails. It's not a _bad_ thing, > but not as good as being able to always have them on screen, IMO. > Something similar to the page of thumbnails and/or something a > little more Expose-like has been discussed for OmniWeb before, but > we're still not at the add-new-features point just yet. > > We'll have an update on OmniWeb 5.5 soon. > > Oh, and iRider is the name of the first browser I ever saw with tab > thumbnails. It's based on the IE engine in Windows. > > > > - Scott > > > On Jan 5, 2006, at 1:04 PM, Derek Currie wrote: > >> This is kind of fun, so I thought I would share it. >> >> The great David Pogue posted a Circuits email article this >> afternoon from CES, where he will be doing reporting all week. In >> today's email (which you can access at > circuitsemail>) he discusses the Bill Gates & cohorts keynote from >> last night. Several aspects of Vista that were directly "stolen >> from Apple" are pointed out. It is all quite amusing. >> >> But at one point Mr. Pogue made an apparent error. He had begun a >> section in the article discussing ideas in Vista that actually >> appeared to be original. Sadly, in one case he was apparently >> mistaken. Here is the relevant paragraph: >> >>> * Thumbnail tabbed browsing. Internet Explorer will finally get >>> tabbed browsing (a feature that Firefox, Safari and other >>> browsers have had for years), in which you can keep multiple Web >>> pages open at once, all in the same window; you switch from one >>> to the next by clicking little file-folder tabs at the top. But >>> in the Vista browser, you can also view all your tabbed Web pages >>> as window miniatures, so that you can jump to one according to >>> what it looks like (rather than just its name). A great idea. >> >> Window miniatures is a great idea isn't it! >> >> And it originated in OmniWeb years ago. >> >> I sent Mr. Pogue a note about this fact and offered to send him >> screen shots if they would be helpful. Of course I have not yet >> seen the Vista implementation of window miniatures, but so far I >> am not hearing anything I can't already do in OmniWeb. >> >> Share and Enjoy! >> >> :-Derek >> > _______________________________________________ > OmniWeb-l mailing list > OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l From jtyzack at mac.com Sat Jan 7 06:47:18 2006 From: jtyzack at mac.com (Jonathan Tyzack) Date: Sat Jan 7 06:47:25 2006 Subject: Feature request - the ability to copy the link of a tab from the contextual menu. Message-ID: Well, I should have tried this ages ago - while replying to someone on a forum, I wanted to copy the link of a site I already had open to paste it into the response. Hmm, I thought, I bet I can do that without having to view that other site by control-clicking its tab and selecting "Copy Link" from the menu... only there isn't a Copy Link option. Damn... wouldn't it be a whole lot nicer if there was... Cheers, Jonathan ------------ Please visit The Land Gallery for British Fine Art inspired by nature and landscape: http://www.thelandgallery.com From lists at assortedgeekery.com Sat Jan 7 07:05:56 2006 From: lists at assortedgeekery.com (Christopher Biagini) Date: Sat Jan 7 08:14:17 2006 Subject: Feature request - the ability to copy the link of a tab from the contextual menu. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6F811906-B40A-4227-A436-0AF632CACB00@assortedgeekery.com> On Jan 7, 2006, at 9:47 AM, Jonathan Tyzack wrote: > Well, I should have tried this ages ago - while replying to someone > on a forum, I wanted to copy the link of a site I already had open > to paste it into the response. Hmm, I thought, I bet I can do that > without having to view that other site by control-clicking its tab > and selecting "Copy Link" from the menu... only there isn't a Copy > Link option. It's not what you asked for, but an AppleScript I wrote might be convenient in your situation: It pops up a list of the current links in OmniWeb, and copies the one you choose to the clipboard with the BBCode tags already applied. --Chris From jtyzack at mac.com Sat Jan 7 09:51:23 2006 From: jtyzack at mac.com (Jonathan Tyzack) Date: Sat Jan 7 09:51:35 2006 Subject: Feature request - the ability to copy the link of a tab from the contextual menu. In-Reply-To: <6F811906-B40A-4227-A436-0AF632CACB00@assortedgeekery.com> References: <6F811906-B40A-4227-A436-0AF632CACB00@assortedgeekery.com> Message-ID: It might not be what I asked for, but that is actually even better, thanks! Cheers, Jonathan On 7 Jan 2006, at 15:05, Christopher Biagini wrote: > > On Jan 7, 2006, at 9:47 AM, Jonathan Tyzack wrote: > >> Well, I should have tried this ages ago - while replying to >> someone on a forum, I wanted to copy the link of a site I already >> had open to paste it into the response. Hmm, I thought, I bet I >> can do that without having to view that other site by control- >> clicking its tab and selecting "Copy Link" from the menu... only >> there isn't a Copy Link option. > > It's not what you asked for, but an AppleScript I wrote might be > convenient in your situation: > > > > It pops up a list of the current links in OmniWeb, and copies the > one you choose to the clipboard with the BBCode tags already applied. > > --Chris > _______________________________________________ > OmniWeb-l mailing list > OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l ------------ Please visit The Land Gallery for British Fine Art inspired by nature and landscape: http://www.thelandgallery.com From scott at omnigroup.com Sat Jan 7 12:11:33 2006 From: scott at omnigroup.com (Scott Maier) Date: Sat Jan 7 12:11:37 2006 Subject: Feature request - the ability to copy the link of a tab from the contextual menu. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's a good suggestion, thanks! Currently, you can switch to the tab momentarily, click on it again after you switch to it (to bring focus to the drawer) and then hit command-c to copy the tab to the clipboard. When you paste into a text context, you get the URL. (Pasting in to the OmniWeb drawer would get you a copy of the tab complete with history.) You do have to be careful however to not double-click the tab you are switching to since that action opens the tab in a new window. Click. Wait. Click. Copy. The AppleScript that Christopher referred to probably fits your need better, but I thought I would throw this out there as an alternative to copying the URL of a tab without having to go through the extra steps of copying from the location bar. - Scott On Jan 7, 2006, at 6:47 AM, Jonathan Tyzack wrote: > Well, I should have tried this ages ago - while replying to someone > on a forum, I wanted to copy the link of a site I already had open > to paste it into the response. Hmm, I thought, I bet I can do that > without having to view that other site by control-clicking its tab > and selecting "Copy Link" from the menu... only there isn't a Copy > Link option. Damn... wouldn't it be a whole lot nicer if there was... > > Cheers, > > Jonathan > > > > ------------ > > Please visit The Land Gallery for British Fine Art inspired by > nature and landscape: > > http://www.thelandgallery.com From jtyzack at mac.com Sat Jan 7 12:21:16 2006 From: jtyzack at mac.com (Jonathan Tyzack) Date: Sat Jan 7 12:21:23 2006 Subject: Feature request - the ability to copy the link of a tab from the contextual menu. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <742A8DB3-FB3F-47AB-A317-13A348D20CFA@mac.com> Hi Scott, thanks for the response. It would be nice to have the formatting options in a contextual menu as well (i.e. if you can add a Copy Link to the thumbnail's contextual menu, then Copy Link as BB format and/ or Copy Link as HTML format would be really nice to have too). Christopher's script is great, but it takes a bit to find the link you want if you have a lot of tabs open in your window... Cheers, Jonathan On 7 Jan 2006, at 20:11, Scott Maier wrote: > > That's a good suggestion, thanks! > > Currently, you can switch to the tab momentarily, click on it again > after you switch to it (to bring focus to the drawer) and then hit > command-c to copy the tab to the clipboard. When you paste into a > text context, you get the URL. (Pasting in to the OmniWeb drawer > would get you a copy of the tab complete with history.) > > You do have to be careful however to not double-click the tab you > are switching to since that action opens the tab in a new window. > Click. Wait. Click. Copy. > > The AppleScript that Christopher referred to probably fits your > need better, but I thought I would throw this out there as an > alternative to copying the URL of a tab without having to go > through the extra steps of copying from the location bar. > > > - Scott > > > On Jan 7, 2006, at 6:47 AM, Jonathan Tyzack wrote: > >> Well, I should have tried this ages ago - while replying to >> someone on a forum, I wanted to copy the link of a site I already >> had open to paste it into the response. Hmm, I thought, I bet I >> can do that without having to view that other site by control- >> clicking its tab and selecting "Copy Link" from the menu... only >> there isn't a Copy Link option. Damn... wouldn't it be a whole lot >> nicer if there was... >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jonathan >> >> >> >> ------------ >> >> Please visit The Land Gallery for British Fine Art inspired by >> nature and landscape: >> >> http://www.thelandgallery.com > ------------ Please visit The Land Gallery for British Fine Art inspired by nature and landscape: http://www.thelandgallery.com From katz at cs.millersville.edu Sat Jan 7 14:21:21 2006 From: katz at cs.millersville.edu (Beth Katz) Date: Sat Jan 7 14:27:27 2006 Subject: Feature request - the ability to copy the link of a tab from the contextual menu. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: While we're asking about features, I note that this "opening the tab in another window and removing it from the tab drawer" is something I personally consider a bug. I do it too often accidentally. Beth Katz On Jan 7, 2006, at 3:11 PM, Scott Maier wrote: > You do have to be careful however to not double-click the tab you are > switching to since that action opens the tab in a new window. Click. > Wait. Click. Copy. From jtyzack at mac.com Sat Jan 7 15:20:43 2006 From: jtyzack at mac.com (Jonathan Tyzack) Date: Sat Jan 7 15:20:54 2006 Subject: QuickTime crashes In-Reply-To: <3C903630-0D1B-4809-B816-346D3CF692EF@omnigroup.com> References: <6CD59764-BF3C-4148-846A-EB665E5305AF@VOCARO.COM> <86950475-EE78-4DF3-8AD2-E96B6F01BAA3@ilink.de> <3C903630-0D1B-4809-B816-346D3CF692EF@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <96A3E1E0-CCB9-476B-A481-49F4904B72BA@mac.com> Hi Scott, I've just experienced a crash in OmniWeb while loading a video both in OmniWeb and in Safari at the same time! Could this bug cause that - an instance of the same Quicktime file loading/loaded in another browser affecting the stability of OmniWeb? Cheers, Jonathan On 7 Jan 2006, at 01:00, Scott Maier wrote: > This is something we have tried to fix, but the bug appears to be > Apple's. We are working with them to correct it but obviously at > this time it remains an issue. > > For what it's worth, you should be able to avoid the crash by never > having more than one window or tab with QuickTime content open. > The crash happens when there are two or more QuickTime plug-in > instances loaded on different pages. > > - Scott ------------ Please visit The Land Gallery for British Fine Art inspired by nature and landscape: http://www.thelandgallery.com From kc at omnigroup.com Sat Jan 7 21:02:36 2006 From: kc at omnigroup.com (Ken Case) Date: Sat Jan 7 21:02:38 2006 Subject: OmniWeb 5.5 status update Message-ID: Hi all, I just wanted to give you all a status update on OmniWeb 5.5. First, some background: starting with OmniWeb 4.5, we've been using Apple's open source WebCore framework (based on khtml) as our rendering engine. Unfortunately (as you've all seen), WebCore doesn't have a stable API which means that (depending on how much has changed in WebCore) it can take quite a while to integrate new versions of WebCore when they're released. Fortunately for us the picture changed in a big way last year at WWDC, when Apple opened up the rest of their WebKit source code: WebKit does have stable API, so applications built on top of it can upgrade to newer versions of WebKit without having to rewrite their code with each release. OmniWeb 5.5 will be the first version of OmniWeb to be based on WebKit rather than WebCore, taking advantage of all of the latest performance enhancements in Safari 2 as well as making it easier to stay on top of those changes in the future. So, where are we now? At this point, we have OmniWeb 5.5 running on top of a slightly customized WebKit, with our thumbnail tabs (except for a bug with loading frame sets in background tabs), workspaces, bookmarks, custom cookie handling, ad blocking (by ad size, third party sites, or regular expression), some of our site preferences (font style, inline images, JavaScript and Java and cookie controls, and the browser identification/masquerade setting), our source code editor, downloads, and our context menus. We're still missing some of our mouse and keyboard interactions (you can't option-drag a link to drag out a window, click-hold a link to get a context menu, or click on a blocked ad to load it), zoomed editing, some site preferences (including animation controls), page info, activity monitor, authentication in the source view, password autofill, autocomplete, the ability to show HTTP requests, save as (single page) PDF, and probably some other things I'm forgetting. In other words, we've made quite a bit of progress on quite a few of the major features of OmniWeb, but there's still a lot of work to do before 5.5 really feels like an upgrade to 5.1. (I've been trying to use 5.5 as my primary browser lately, but whenever I move from basic browsing to doing any sort of web work I end up switching back to 5.1. Fortunately, with persistent workspaces already implemented I'm able to switch back and forth without losing all my context.) It's a bit early to say exactly when OmniWeb 5.5 will enter public beta, but we'll try to provide more frequent status updates as we get closer. Stay tuned! Cheers, Ken From crasmen at free.fr Sat Jan 7 22:37:05 2006 From: crasmen at free.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Corentin_Cras-M=E9neur?=) Date: Sat Jan 7 22:37:22 2006 Subject: OmniWeb 5.5 status update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1E2C833C-0095-45E1-8CF0-2F70E868A255@free.fr> Thanks a lot for the update on the status of the development of OW 5.5 Ken, Le 07 janv. 2006 ? 23:02, Ken Case a ?crit : > It's a bit early to say exactly when OmniWeb 5.5 will enter public > beta, but we'll try to provide more frequent status updates as we > get closer. Stay tuned! Any chance you'll demo the current build at MacWorld ?? Corentin From james.lists at igallagher.com Sat Jan 7 22:39:48 2006 From: james.lists at igallagher.com (James Gallagher) Date: Sat Jan 7 22:46:36 2006 Subject: OmniWeb 5.5 status update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 08 Jan 2006, at 1:02 PM, Ken Case wrote: > Hi all, > > I just wanted to give you all a status update on OmniWeb 5.5. > > > It's a bit early to say exactly when OmniWeb 5.5 will enter public > beta, but we'll try to provide more frequent status updates as we > get closer. Stay tuned! > > Cheers, > Ken Hi Ken, Thanks for giving us an insight into 5.5, I'm certainly looking forward to the improvements that WebKit will bring. There is a site which 'beachballs' 5.1 for me but works in Safari, so I'm hoping that 5.5 will help out there. Good luck with the rest of the work and more of these updates on 5.5 would be good, even if they're small. Cheers, James From clytie at riverland.net.au Sat Jan 7 23:15:14 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Sat Jan 7 23:15:27 2006 Subject: Sourceforge post-update login Message-ID: <7F7A13B7-CDDA-47BC-ADE5-6375C5F7BA5E@riverland.net.au> Is anyone else having trouble with Sourceforge? I used to be able to retain my login comfortably, but today I tried going to a page, and it didn't log me in automatically, which it should have done. Not a big problem, so I logged in, then tried going to the page I wanted, by inputting it as a Bookmark on My Page. SF logged me out on the way. I tried searching for the project, which is The Translation Project, but despite using those exact words in quotation marks, I didn't get anything like it in the first page of results. I tried "n: The Translation Project" as advised by the Help, and that didn't get any results at all. I tried browsing under Translation, but it didn't turn up in the first page of results there, either. Back to the login problems... I found I couldn't log in again. I tried several times. Then I deleted all my cookies, but that didn't help. I still couldn't log in, and there are no error message, it simply goes back to the login entry page. The only odd thing I noticed was that pages on which I was still logged in, showed the generic bookmark favicon, while pages that logged me out showed the orange SF favicon. OW 5.1.3b2, OSX 10.4.3. It's really puzzling me, because previously I've had a SF tab open most of the time, and had no trouble retaining my login, or logging in at all. Mostly it logged me in automatically. I can't work out why I can't login, nor why I can't find a project when I know its name (and have been there often)! from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Sun Jan 8 00:00:36 2006 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene) Date: Sun Jan 8 00:00:41 2006 Subject: OmniWeb 5.5 status update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20060108080036.GD7556@dark-age.linksys> On Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 11:02:36PM CST, Ken Case wrote: > > Hi all, > > I just wanted to give you all a status update on OmniWeb 5.5. [...] Ken, thank you very much for the update! It's definitely a nice shower after a long dry spell. I assume the target for 5.5 is feature parity with 5.1.x. Will there be enough time to add new features that some have requested over the past few months? Or are new features slated for a 5.6 release? [...] > In other words, we've made quite a bit of progress on quite a few of > the major features of OmniWeb, but there's still a lot of work to do > before 5.5 really feels like an upgrade to 5.1. (I've been trying to > use 5.5 as my primary browser lately, but whenever I move from basic > browsing to doing any sort of web work I end up switching back to > 5.1. Fortunately, with persistent workspaces already implemented I'm > able to switch back and forth without losing all my context.) > > It's a bit early to say exactly when OmniWeb 5.5 will enter public > beta, but we'll try to provide more frequent status updates as we get > closer. Stay tuned! It's good to know that you guys also believe that you should eat your own dog food. Can't wait to try out your own dog food too. Sneakypeeks on the way, right? ;-) -- Eugene http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From peter.royal at pobox.com Sun Jan 8 06:41:52 2006 From: peter.royal at pobox.com (peter royal) Date: Sun Jan 8 07:00:03 2006 Subject: OmniWeb 5.5 status update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 8, 2006, at 12:02 AM, Ken Case wrote: > In other words, we've made quite a bit of progress on quite a few > of the major features of OmniWeb, but there's still a lot of work > to do before 5.5 really feels like an upgrade to 5.1. (I've been > trying to use 5.5 as my primary browser lately, but whenever I move > from basic browsing to doing any sort of web work I end up > switching back to 5.1. Fortunately, with persistent workspaces > already implemented I'm able to switch back and forth without > losing all my context.) > > It's a bit early to say exactly when OmniWeb 5.5 will enter public > beta, but we'll try to provide more frequent status updates as we > get closer. Stay tuned! Thanks for the update Ken. Speaking as someone that was a full-time OW user that abandoned it when Safari 2.0 came out, even if the beta/ release of 5.5 didn't have all the OW-features that 5.1 had, the updated rendering engine would be completely worth it. -pete -- (peter.royal|osi)@pobox.com - http://fotap.org/~osi From trevor at vocaro.com Sun Jan 8 11:34:47 2006 From: trevor at vocaro.com (Trevor Harmon) Date: Sun Jan 8 11:35:02 2006 Subject: Sourceforge post-update login In-Reply-To: <7F7A13B7-CDDA-47BC-ADE5-6375C5F7BA5E@riverland.net.au> References: <7F7A13B7-CDDA-47BC-ADE5-6375C5F7BA5E@riverland.net.au> Message-ID: <28A5E973-55EF-4927-AF51-8F93C412039A@vocaro.com> On Jan 7, 2006, at 11:15 PM, Clytie Siddall wrote: > Is anyone else having trouble with Sourceforge? > > I used to be able to retain my login comfortably, but today I tried > going to a page, and it didn't log me in automatically, which it > should have done. I've never been able to get the "Remember Me" feature to work at all. But I can always log in to SF, and at least OmniWeb autofills the login info for me. I tried logging in just now, and it worked -- same specs as you -- so I'm not sure why you're having such problems. Perhaps it's something on SF's end. Trevor From ajmalton at uwaterloo.ca Mon Jan 9 12:45:34 2006 From: ajmalton at uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Malton) Date: Mon Jan 9 12:45:41 2006 Subject: Bookmark synchronization Message-ID: My bookmarks routinely get messed up: usually it loses things I put there. It looks as if the synch algorithm, when it wants to know whether to update from the repo or update to it, merely guesses. Is there a well-defined algorithm being used? Anyone else have this problem? AJM (Three machines are involved. One is always in the same place and has a public domain name. One is a roving laptop. One is behind a LAN firewall. If it helps.) -- Dr. Andrew Malton, Associate Professor David R. Cheriton School of Computer Science University of Waterloo Waterloo, Canada N2L 3G1 http://www.uwaterloo.ca/~ajmalton AIM:ajmalton@mac.com tel: +1 519 888 4567 x 5144 fax: +1 519 885 1208 From mk2 at andrew.cmu.edu Mon Jan 9 13:42:19 2006 From: mk2 at andrew.cmu.edu (Mike Kelleher) Date: Mon Jan 9 13:42:21 2006 Subject: Bookmark synchronization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2F688ED1992BEC21F2D01A8F@cmu-153129.wv.cc.cmu.edu> --On Monday, January 9, 2006 3:45 PM -0500 Andrew Malton wrote: > My bookmarks routinely get messed up: usually it loses things I put there. > > It looks as if the synch algorithm, when it wants to know whether to > update from the repo or update to it, merely guesses. > > Is there a well-defined algorithm being used? > > Anyone else have this problem? Yes. I posted about WebDAV sync issues a couple months ago, but no one replied. Things seem to work well if I am absolutely strict about quitting OW on one machine before launching it on another. But, sometimes I forget, and some/most/all of the time that happens, one of my machines will get out of sync with the others and I have to go to the preferences, clear the server line, click out, click back in, and re-enter the WebDAV URL. At that point I have to choose whether to replace the server bookmarks with the local bookmarks or vice versa. I'm guessing that perhaps WebDAV file locking issues are coming into play, but it's impossible to tell from the documentation. I would love for bookmark synching to happen correctly/reliably even if I do launch more than one instance of OmniWeb but if it is WebDAV locks getting in the way there may be nothing OG can do about it. Though I imagine that at any rate there could be something done to address the issue of OW "giving up" on the server bookmarks once this does happen, so that I can get back into a synched state by quitting all copies of OW and launching/quitting one at a time. Cheers, Mike -- \ Mike Kelleher / Field Consultant / Computing Services \ \ mk2@cmu.edu / Cluster Services / Carnegie Mellon Univ \ From fcorbett at comcast.net Mon Jan 9 13:59:39 2006 From: fcorbett at comcast.net (Forrest Corbett) Date: Mon Jan 9 13:59:54 2006 Subject: Bookmark synchronization In-Reply-To: <2F688ED1992BEC21F2D01A8F@cmu-153129.wv.cc.cmu.edu> References: <2F688ED1992BEC21F2D01A8F@cmu-153129.wv.cc.cmu.edu> Message-ID: FWIW, I sync between two machines via WebDAV and have never had an issue (other than not being able to connect to the host at times - probably a host issue.) I don't create new bookmarks very often, so my results may be from being a light user. -Forrest From clytie at riverland.net.au Mon Jan 9 21:33:30 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Mon Jan 9 21:33:54 2006 Subject: Sourceforge post-update login In-Reply-To: <28A5E973-55EF-4927-AF51-8F93C412039A@vocaro.com> References: <7F7A13B7-CDDA-47BC-ADE5-6375C5F7BA5E@riverland.net.au> <28A5E973-55EF-4927-AF51-8F93C412039A@vocaro.com> Message-ID: <28A55B9B-60B9-4D70-9043-98C41AD1D140@riverland.net.au> On 09/01/2006, at 6:04 AM, Trevor Harmon wrote: > I've never been able to get the "Remember Me" feature to work at > all. But I can always log in to SF, and at least OmniWeb autofills > the login info for me. I tried logging in just now, and it worked > -- same specs as you -- so I'm not sure why you're having such > problems. Perhaps it's something on SF's end. Thanks, Trevor, that gives me a comparison point. :) I just tried logging in again, today, and still can't login. Time to bug SF sysops... from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN From kei.ishii at gmail.com Tue Jan 10 18:35:10 2006 From: kei.ishii at gmail.com (Kei Ishii) Date: Tue Jan 10 18:35:19 2006 Subject: Endless reload loop on apple pages? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When watching the new apple stuff with OmniWeb (latest beta version), the pages go ino an endless reload loop. As soon as the page has finished loading, it reloads. As additional interesting phenomenon, e.g. the iweb page reloads to the iphoto page, which then enters the endless loop. Neither Safari nor Firefox (always latest versions) show this behavior. The only thing I have found in the web page itself is the wrong expiration date in the html header, like that on the iweb page: meta http-equiv="Expires" content="Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:59:59 GMT" May be OmniWeb is too strict on this meta tag? Kei. From fcorbett at comcast.net Tue Jan 10 18:57:25 2006 From: fcorbett at comcast.net (Forrest Corbett) Date: Tue Jan 10 18:57:30 2006 Subject: Endless reload loop on apple pages? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 10, 2006, at 6:35 PM, Kei Ishii wrote: > When watching the new apple stuff with OmniWeb (latest beta version), > the pages go ino an endless reload loop. As soon as the page has > finished loading, it reloads. > > As additional interesting phenomenon, e.g. the iweb page reloads to > the iphoto page, which then enters the endless loop. > > > > Neither Safari nor Firefox (always latest versions) show this > behavior. > > The only thing I have found in the web page itself is the wrong > expiration > date in the html header, like that on the iweb page: > meta http-equiv="Expires" content="Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:59:59 GMT" > > May be OmniWeb is too strict on this meta tag? Same issue here. However, I chopped away at the code until I had was:
And the issue persisted. I'm not that skilled in JS to find the issue. -Forrest From joragan at gmail.com Tue Jan 10 19:01:28 2006 From: joragan at gmail.com (David Kasprzyk) Date: Tue Jan 10 19:01:31 2006 Subject: Endless reload loop on apple pages? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61d69a110601101901w2f72bdfbl483bc3bcb09b7cf0@mail.gmail.com> Well I know that Both IE 6 and Firefox for Windows were crashing for me on those pages all day at work so I think Apple has some larger bugs. David On 1/10/06, Forrest Corbett wrote: > > On Jan 10, 2006, at 6:35 PM, Kei Ishii wrote: > > > When watching the new apple stuff with OmniWeb (latest beta version), > > the pages go ino an endless reload loop. As soon as the page has > > finished loading, it reloads. > > > > As additional interesting phenomenon, e.g. the iweb page reloads to > > the iphoto page, which then enters the endless loop. > > > > > > > > Neither Safari nor Firefox (always latest versions) show this > > behavior. > > > > The only thing I have found in the web page itself is the wrong > > expiration > > date in the html header, like that on the iweb page: > > meta http-equiv="Expires" content="Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:59:59 GMT" > > > > May be OmniWeb is too strict on this meta tag? > > Same issue here. However, I chopped away at the code until I had was: > > > > > >
>
> > > > And the issue persisted. I'm not that skilled in JS to find the issue. > > -Forrest > _______________________________________________ > OmniWeb-l mailing list > OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l > -- _________________ David Kasprzyk joragan@gmail.com From vanderleun at comcast.net Tue Jan 10 19:09:06 2006 From: vanderleun at comcast.net (Gerard Vanderleun) Date: Tue Jan 10 19:09:09 2006 Subject: Endless reload loop on apple pages? In-Reply-To: <61d69a110601101901w2f72bdfbl483bc3bcb09b7cf0@mail.gmail.com> References: <61d69a110601101901w2f72bdfbl483bc3bcb09b7cf0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <366cd45bb3d147c0910bdac667aab058@comcast.net> Same thing here, but I think it may well be related to the high server load coming after MacWorld today. On Jan 10, 2006, at 7:01 PM, David Kasprzyk wrote: > Well I know that Both IE 6 and Firefox for Windows were crashing for > me on those pages all day at work so I think Apple has some larger > bugs. > > David > > On 1/10/06, Forrest Corbett wrote: >> >> On Jan 10, 2006, at 6:35 PM, Kei Ishii wrote: >> >>> When watching the new apple stuff with OmniWeb (latest beta version), >>> the pages go ino an endless reload loop. As soon as the page has >>> finished loading, it reloads. >>> >>> As additional interesting phenomenon, e.g. the iweb page reloads to >>> the iphoto page, which then enters the endless loop. >>> >>> >>> >>> Neither Safari nor Firefox (always latest versions) show this >>> behavior. >>> >>> The only thing I have found in the web page itself is the wrong >>> expiration >>> date in the html header, like that on the iweb page: >>> meta http-equiv="Expires" content="Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:59:59 GMT" >>> >>> May be OmniWeb is too strict on this meta tag? >> >> Same issue here. However, I chopped away at the code until I had was: >> >> >> >> >> >>
>>
>> >> >> >> And the issue persisted. I'm not that skilled in JS to find the issue. >> >> -Forrest >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniWeb-l mailing list >> OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l >> > > > -- > _________________ > David Kasprzyk > joragan@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > OmniWeb-l mailing list > OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l > > Gerard Van der Leun http://americandigest.org From skd at columbus.rr.com Wed Jan 11 01:05:38 2006 From: skd at columbus.rr.com (Steve Dieringer) Date: Wed Jan 11 01:05:45 2006 Subject: Endless reload loop on apple pages? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2873A530-5690-4D88-BD8C-F3CEA701E9D6@columbus.rr.com> I had this same issue with Safari. But not with Camino. Didn't try OW. It seems to have disappeared now that the crush has dissipated. On Jan 10, 2006, at 9:35 PM, Kei Ishii wrote: > When watching the new apple stuff with OmniWeb (latest beta version), > the pages go ino an endless reload loop. As soon as the page has > finished loading, it reloads. > > As additional interesting phenomenon, e.g. the iweb page reloads to > the iphoto page, which then enters the endless loop. > > > > Neither Safari nor Firefox (always latest versions) show this > behavior. > > The only thing I have found in the web page itself is the wrong > expiration > date in the html header, like that on the iweb page: > meta http-equiv="Expires" content="Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:59:59 GMT" > > May be OmniWeb is too strict on this meta tag? > > Kei. > > _______________________________________________ > OmniWeb-l mailing list > OmniWeb-l@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omniweb-l From fcorbett at comcast.net Wed Jan 11 06:36:52 2006 From: fcorbett at comcast.net (Forrest Corbett) Date: Wed Jan 11 06:36:57 2006 Subject: Endless reload loop on apple pages? In-Reply-To: <2873A530-5690-4D88-BD8C-F3CEA701E9D6@columbus.rr.com> References: <2873A530-5690-4D88-BD8C-F3CEA701E9D6@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: <54301867-8E1D-4080-9936-6DF1E8A31C98@comcast.net> On Jan 11, 2006, at 1:05 AM, Steve Dieringer wrote: > It seems to have disappeared now that the crush has dissipated. Just tried it in OW again. Cleared the cache. Problem still exists. I've never seen a server load issue cause a page to refresh like that. Not to mention, I whittled the code down locally to isolate the issue. -Forrest From Cybernettr at aol.com Thu Jan 12 18:23:30 2006 From: Cybernettr at aol.com (Cybernettr@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 12 18:23:40 2006 Subject: Import bookmarks from another browser Message-ID: <1d6.4cc7f559.30f86922@aol.com> I noticed in OmniWeb that when you import bookmarks from another browser, they go under the imported bookmarks section, but this section cannot be edited. You can't delete bookmarks, rearrange them, change their name, etc.. If you want to edit the bookmarks, you must go into the browser in which you created the bookmarks and make your changes there, then the changes are reflected the next time you launch OmniWeb. Is the only way to make edits to these bookmarks to visit the sites in your imported bookmarks one by one in OmniWeb and then add them to OmniWeb's own BookMark collection? From kc at omnigroup.com Thu Jan 12 23:25:30 2006 From: kc at omnigroup.com (Ken Case) Date: Thu Jan 12 23:25:45 2006 Subject: Import bookmarks from another browser In-Reply-To: <1d6.4cc7f559.30f86922@aol.com> References: <1d6.4cc7f559.30f86922@aol.com> Message-ID: On Jan 12, 2006, at 18:23, Cybernettr@aol.com wrote: > I noticed in OmniWeb that when you import bookmarks from another > browser, they go under the imported bookmarks section, but this > section cannot be edited. You can't delete bookmarks, rearrange > them, change their name, etc.. Right: the imported bookmarks are just a view of the other browser's bookmarks; as you edit them there, the changes are reflected in OmniWeb. > Is the only way to make edits to these bookmarks to visit the sites > in your imported bookmarks one by one in OmniWeb and then add them > to OmniWeb's own BookMark collection? If you want to edit the bookmarks in OmniWeb you'll need to move them into OmniWeb's bookmarks, but fortunately you don't have to do that one-by-one! Just click on one, choose Select All from the Edit menu (Command-A), and then drag them all onto OmniWeb's "Personal Bookmarks" collection. Hope this helps! Ken From dantekgeek at gmail.com Fri Jan 13 12:07:14 2006 From: dantekgeek at gmail.com (Dan Lurie) Date: Fri Jan 13 12:07:22 2006 Subject: OmniGroup Interview Message-ID: Hey Guys, Hate to plug my own stuff, but I had a chance to sit down with Ken Case and the OmniWeb Project lead. Its out as a podcast, in which we learn that the next version of OW will sport WebKit and a few other features. Thought you all might be interested. http://www4.macnn.com/macnn/reviews/podcast/omnigroupinterview.m4a ____________________________________ Dan Lurie dantekgeek@gmail.com http://intarweb-master.com/ http://theappleblog.com http://www.macnn.com/podcasts From omniweb at hicksdesign.co.uk Tue Jan 17 01:54:20 2006 From: omniweb at hicksdesign.co.uk (Jon Hicks) Date: Tue Jan 17 01:54:57 2006 Subject: Web Inspector in Omniweb? Message-ID: <2477010F-640A-4DC7-9A1A-76CB1AA34429@hicksdesign.co.uk> I know this is probably too early days to say, but is there any chance that Omniweb 5.5 will include the webkit Web Inspector? http://webkit.opendarwin.org/blog/?p=41 That would truly make my day. Cheers, Jon ----------------------------------------------- // hicksdesign Design for Print + New Media 10 pine rise / witney / oxon / OX28 1EY / uk T: +44 (0)7917 391 536* F: 0871 733 4594 (uk only) (*office closed on Fridays) Portfolio, blog & downloads: http://www.hicksdesign.co.uk ------------------------------------------------ From erikness at tds.net Tue Jan 17 14:05:18 2006 From: erikness at tds.net (erikness@tds.net) Date: Wed Jan 18 00:02:09 2006 Subject: Omniweb applescripting... Message-ID: <20060117220518.UHDD11301.outaamta01.mail.tds.net@smtp.tds.net> Greetings, I'm exploring OmniWeb as an alternative to iCab, which I love but that just keeps crashing. One thing I wonder: Can OminWeb grab the plain text of a web page without resorting to UI scripting? In safari it goes like this: tell application "Safari" activate set title to name of window 1 set body to text of document 1 end tell return {title, body} Regards, Erik Ness From minutiaeman at st-minutiae.com Wed Jan 18 15:08:52 2006 From: minutiaeman at st-minutiae.com (Dan Carlson) Date: Wed Jan 18 15:19:09 2006 Subject: Minor Bug in iLife '06 Installer Message-ID: <55963E41-4597-4C45-B423-96B0CB9D40CF@st-minutiae.com> I've discovered a minor bug that other OmniWeb users might encounter while installing iLife '06... when it comes time for Installer to place the iLife application icons in the Dock, the script apparently uses insufficiently-specific search parameters, and replaces the OmniWeb icon with that of iWeb. This also is the apparent cause of the crashing of my Dock at the conclusion of the installation; I had to log out and back in to get the Dock back up and running. Just a heads-up for everyone else... we should probably submit bug reports to Apple, too, so they can hopefully fix this in future releases (either this year or next). Dan Carlson (Paying for my web browser since 2002!) From beingnonbeing at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 19 16:02:39 2006 From: beingnonbeing at bellsouth.net (alex bueno) Date: Thu Jan 19 16:02:50 2006 Subject: hidden popups? Message-ID: Hi. Has anyone else here opened the workspaces window to find one or more (presumably popup) windows that you do