From jmck at mac.com Fri Jan 9 12:24:50 2004 From: jmck at mac.com (John McKenzie) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: feature request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ability to reverse-number rows, the better to create David Letterman-style "top ten" lists. OK, that's sort of frivolous. John McKenzie From dan at dmhamm.com Fri Jan 9 16:37:31 2004 From: dan at dmhamm.com (Dan Hamm) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Mail and OmniOutliner Applescript? Message-ID: <2CD8DABC-4305-11D8-A2DF-000A95BB768C@dmhamm.com> > Here's my problem - when I'm at work, I quite often think of something > I need to add to my To Do list (an existing OmniOutliner document) on > my Mac at home. Right now I just send myself an email - but when I get > home I have to re-type the task in the OmniOutliner document, which > seems to be a pain given the available technology. > > Basically, I would like to be able to send an email (either with a > keyword in the subject or possibly to a special account), then take > that email and add it as a new item in my To Do list. The Subject > would become the line item text and the body of the email would go in > the Notes section. > > I have searched every Applescript forum I know of, but haven't seen > anything that comes close to what I am looking for. I am NOT a > scripter, and wouldn't even know where to begin. Any suggestions? From formido at mac.com Fri Jan 9 21:15:05 2004 From: formido at mac.com (Michael Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Mail and OmniOutliner Applescript? In-Reply-To: <2CD8DABC-4305-11D8-A2DF-000A95BB768C@dmhamm.com> References: <2CD8DABC-4305-11D8-A2DF-000A95BB768C@dmhamm.com> Message-ID: On Jan 9, 2004, at 4:37 PM, Dan Hamm wrote: >> Basically, I would like to be able to send an email (either with a >> keyword in the subject or possibly to a special account), then take >> that email and add it as a new item in my To Do list. The Subject >> would become the line item text and the body of the email would go in >> the Notes section. Done. You can get a script to do this here: It allows you to send a message with the subject line prefix of 'task:' which Mail, upon receiving, will dispatch to the appropriate AppleScript, which will in turn create a new item in OmniOutliner. Let me know how it works out. Mike From xmvaldez at stanfordalumni.org Sun Jan 11 09:35:26 2004 From: xmvaldez at stanfordalumni.org (Xochipala Maes Valdez) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: OmniOutliner and OmniGraffle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have opened an OmniOutliner doc in OmniGraffle to make a diagram and it comes out as read only in OmniGraffle, which means I cannot manipulate it at all. I open it from the Open command. Is there another way to import it so that I can have the material but also make changes to it? Thanks From john at oram.com Sun Jan 11 19:22:25 2004 From: john at oram.com (John Oram) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Mail and OmniOutliner Applescript? In-Reply-To: References: <2CD8DABC-4305-11D8-A2DF-000A95BB768C@dmhamm.com> Message-ID: That is pretty damn cool. Once you've added an item, auto export to HTML and FTP upload would also be neat. :) >>>Basically, I would like to be able to send an email (either with a >>>keyword in the subject or possibly to a special account), then >>>take that email and add it as a new item in my To Do list. The >>>Subject would become the line item text and the body of the email >>>would go in the Notes section. > >Done. You can get a script to do this here: > > > >It allows you to send a message with the subject line prefix of >'task:' which Mail, upon receiving, will dispatch to the appropriate >AppleScript, which will in turn create a new item in OmniOutliner. >Let me know how it works out. > > >Mike > >_______________________________________________ >OmniOutliner-Users mailing list >OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com >http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users From lists at infoarts.info Sun Jan 11 20:24:49 2004 From: lists at infoarts.info (Richard Sandilands) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Keyboard shortcuts Message-ID: Hi there Is there a keyboard shortcut that allows me to shift the cursor from a row to the associated note? Regards Richard Sandilands From njriley at uiuc.edu Sun Jan 11 20:30:35 2004 From: njriley at uiuc.edu (Nicholas Riley) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Keyboard shortcuts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040112043035.GB53990@uiuc.edu> On Mon, Jan 12, 2004 at 03:24:49PM +1100, Richard Sandilands wrote: > Hi there > > Is there a keyboard shortcut that allows me to shift the cursor from a > row to the associated note? Command-apostrophe ('). See the Edit menu. -- =Nicholas Riley | From formido at mac.com Sun Jan 11 23:03:23 2004 From: formido at mac.com (Michael Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Mail and OmniOutliner Applescript? In-Reply-To: References: <2CD8DABC-4305-11D8-A2DF-000A95BB768C@dmhamm.com> Message-ID: <69834B47-44CD-11D8-81C6-0030657075EA@mac.com> On Jan 11, 2004, at 7:22 PM, John Oram wrote: > That is pretty damn cool. Which reminds me that if anyone downloaded it a few days ago--other than the "beta testers" I already know about--and it didn't work, the version that's up there now should do it for you. Well, assuming you have current versions of OO and Mail. But who doesn't? Also, make sure to look at the picture in the included manual for setting up the Mail rule, 'cause it's changed slightly. > Once you've added an item, auto export to HTML and FTP upload would > also be neat. :) > And not a bad idea by far. In fact, I've been needing to do something like this for myself. Think I''ll wait for the next version of OO, though, which is supposed to have some scriptable export features. By the by, if anyone else has an idea (or ideas) for OO-related scripts they'd like to see done, post them to this list. If they're reasonably possible, I'll probably do them sooner or later. At the very least I'll tell you why I don't think it can be done. :) Mike From formido at mac.com Sun Jan 11 23:26:26 2004 From: formido at mac.com (Michael Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Mail and OmniOutliner Applescript? In-Reply-To: <69834B47-44CD-11D8-81C6-0030657075EA@mac.com> References: <2CD8DABC-4305-11D8-A2DF-000A95BB768C@dmhamm.com> <69834B47-44CD-11D8-81C6-0030657075EA@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jan 11, 2004, at 11:03 PM, Michael Terry wrote: > Well, assuming you have current versions of OO and Mail. Oh, and Panther. Have to have Panther 'cause I used a script format that's only available with the latest system. Since I've gone this far, I may as well tell you that it's the script bundle format. If you're on a pre-Panther system, and you know how to compile a script, you could easily "port" it. Mike From soft at bdanube.com Mon Jan 12 07:32:10 2004 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Mail and OmniOutliner Applescript? In-Reply-To: References: <2CD8DABC-4305-11D8-A2DF-000A95BB768C@dmhamm.com> <69834B47-44CD-11D8-81C6-0030657075EA@mac.com> Message-ID: <7CC80C7C-4514-11D8-A544-000A27984144@bdanube.com> On Jan 12, 2004, at 1:26 AM, Michael Terry wrote: > Since I've gone this far, I may as well tell you that it's the script > bundle format. What's that good for, actually? Michael -- The deeper I talked, the worse I got in.... From formido at mac.com Mon Jan 12 12:16:27 2004 From: formido at mac.com (Michael Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Mail and OmniOutliner Applescript? In-Reply-To: <7CC80C7C-4514-11D8-A544-000A27984144@bdanube.com> References: <2CD8DABC-4305-11D8-A2DF-000A95BB768C@dmhamm.com> <69834B47-44CD-11D8-81C6-0030657075EA@mac.com> <7CC80C7C-4514-11D8-A544-000A27984144@bdanube.com> Message-ID: <33B00244-453C-11D8-81C6-0030657075EA@mac.com> On Jan 12, 2004, at 7:32 AM, Michael Grant wrote: >> Since I've gone this far, I may as well tell you that it's the script >> bundle format. > > What's that good for, actually? > For embedding whatever resources you want in the script. In this case, the manual (essentially the readme) is embedded in the script, and shows up in the description pane of Script Editor 2 if one bothers to open it. (However, I did include a copy of the manual at the top level of the download, too. It would have been ideal to me if I could have aliased the embedded file, but that's a no go.) That's a fairly trivial use, but a much more important use is embedding library files with the main script. Unfortunately, because 'path to me' won't work properly with scripts yet, there are some gotchas associated with its use in this context. But they're not insurmountable. Mike From jam at omnigroup.com Mon Jan 12 13:28:06 2004 From: jam at omnigroup.com (James Moore) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: feature request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3617C522-4546-11D8-B41D-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> John, I've added this to our feature request database, I'm surprised there wasn't an existing entry for it. Thanks for the suggestion. -James Technical Support Engineer Omni Group On Jan 9, 2004, at 12:23 PM, John McKenzie wrote: > Ability to reverse-number rows, the better to create David > Letterman-style "top ten" lists. > > OK, that's sort of frivolous. > > John McKenzie > > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users From schakwin at sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 12 15:06:45 2004 From: schakwin at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Chakwin) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Integrated Timeline Function between OmniOutline and OmniGraffle In-Reply-To: <200401122000.i0CK0qom002958@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: This would be a wonderful idea. I've heard rumors of it as a possibility being discussed at the latest Macworld. I am a member of a legal user group with over 550 members, many of whom have been looking for a way to easily generate quality timelines. The current software available on the Mac (TimeLiner), while functional, does not produce acceptable printouts for use in a trial. We get inquiries on our forum several times a year about acceptable outlining programs and so far have not had much to recommend. A feature like this one would be a wonderful addition and might point the way to collateral shared uses for the two products. Stephen From hharkins at mindspring.com Mon Jan 12 20:10:20 2004 From: hharkins at mindspring.com (Harold Harkins) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Integrated Timeline Function between OmniOutline and OmniGraffle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67589F58-457E-11D8-A6BA-000393D610C4@mindspring.com> Whoa!! What a great idea. Another attorney here who loves omnioutliner for tracking projects but the ability to link to omnigraffle to oo would be way kewel. Harold Harkins On Jan 12, 2004, at 6:06 PM, Stephen Chakwin wrote: > This would be a wonderful idea. I've heard rumors of it as a > possibility > being discussed at the latest Macworld. > > I am a member of a legal user group with over 550 members, many of > whom have been looking for a way to easily generate quality timelines. > The > current software available on the Mac (TimeLiner), while functional, > does > not produce acceptable printouts for use in a trial. We get inquiries > on > our forum several times a year about acceptable outlining programs and > so > far have not had much to recommend. A feature like this one would be a > wonderful addition and might point the way to collateral shared uses > for the > two products. > > Stephen > > > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users > From lists at infoarts.info Tue Jan 13 03:38:16 2004 From: lists at infoarts.info (Richard Sandilands) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Keyboard shortcuts In-Reply-To: <20040112043035.GB53990@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: On 11/1/04 Nicholas Riley wrote: > Command-apostrophe ('). See the Edit menu. Got it. RTFM I suppose. How about a shortcut to show/hide the notes? Regards Richard -- Richard Sandilands mob: 0415 167 701 aim: infoarts3 web: http://infoarts.info pix: http://richardsandilands.com mac: http://macsupport.com.au zac: http://richardsandilands.com/zac/ From jam at omnigroup.com Tue Jan 13 13:22:26 2004 From: jam at omnigroup.com (James Moore) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Keyboard shortcuts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95E62090-460E-11D8-A97A-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> Richard there isn't a command to show/hide the notes area. If the notes area is hidden hitting cmd-' will make it appear but it won't then disappear when you stop editing the note. The inline notes available in OO3 can be toggled with cmd-' so this should work better for you. -James Technical Support Engineer Omni Group On Jan 13, 2004, at 3:38 AM, Richard Sandilands wrote: > On 11/1/04 Nicholas Riley wrote: > >> Command-apostrophe ('). See the Edit menu. > > > Got it. RTFM I suppose. > > How about a shortcut to show/hide the notes? > > Regards > > Richard > > -- > Richard Sandilands > > mob: 0415 167 701 > aim: infoarts3 > web: http://infoarts.info > pix: http://richardsandilands.com > mac: http://macsupport.com.au > zac: http://richardsandilands.com/zac/ > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users From jam at omnigroup.com Tue Jan 13 13:33:24 2004 From: jam at omnigroup.com (James Moore) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Integrated Timeline Function between OmniOutline and OmniGraffle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1E3D11FA-4610-11D8-A97A-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> I believe that it will be possible to use Graffle to render a timeline based on data in Outliner. With the new XSLT support in Outliner some enterprising person could develop a stylesheet to do this. The problem is that Graffle has no notion of time or the significance of the relative distances between events so writing changes back out would be very difficult. If any of you folks would like to see an export plugin for Outliner to produce timelines in Graffle please send in examples of the Outlines you'd be working with. If we have an idea of likely inputs and some expected outputs then it's stands a chance of getting done. -James Technical Support Engineer Omni Group On Jan 12, 2004, at 3:06 PM, Stephen Chakwin wrote: > This would be a wonderful idea. I've heard rumors of it as a > possibility > being discussed at the latest Macworld. > > I am a member of a legal user group with over 550 members, many of > whom have been looking for a way to easily generate quality timelines. > The > current software available on the Mac (TimeLiner), while functional, > does > not produce acceptable printouts for use in a trial. We get inquiries > on > our forum several times a year about acceptable outlining programs and > so > far have not had much to recommend. A feature like this one would be a > wonderful addition and might point the way to collateral shared uses > for the > two products. > > Stephen > > > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users From jam at omnigroup.com Tue Jan 13 13:40:52 2004 From: jam at omnigroup.com (James Moore) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: DocBook XML export Message-ID: <28F57284-4611-11D8-A97A-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> I'd like to hear some opinions about how DocBook exports might work from inside of Outliner. Just having a structured document isn't enough, you need all those special DocBook tags in there too. My first thought was to have a pop-up for each row that specifies what element the topic text will be surrounded by. It's highly unlikely we'll be able to stop a user from creating horribly invalid DocBook files so we're just shooting for a faster-than-editing-xml-source approach to producing the XML. Thoughts? -James Technical Support Engineer Omni Group From lists at infoarts.info Tue Jan 13 16:19:18 2004 From: lists at infoarts.info (Richard Sandilands) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Applescript newbie Message-ID: A simple applescript question. I simply want to move rows whose status is checked to be children of a row whose topic is "Completed". Assume the row with topic "Completed" is in existence already and is at the same level as the checked items (prior to their being moved). Any clues appreciated. Regards Richard -- Richard Sandilands mob: 0415 167 701 aim: infoarts3 web: http://infoarts.info pix: http://richardsandilands.com mac: http://macsupport.com.au zac: http://richardsandilands.com/zac/ From formido at mac.com Tue Jan 13 18:01:05 2004 From: formido at mac.com (Michael Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Applescript newbie In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <835F6731-4635-11D8-81C6-0030657075EA@mac.com> On Jan 13, 2004, at 4:19 PM, Richard Sandilands wrote: > A simple applescript question. > > I simply want to move rows whose status is checked to be children of a > row whose topic is "Completed". > > Assume the row with topic "Completed" is in existence already and is at > the same level as the checked items (prior to their being moved). > tell application "OmniOutliner" to tell front document set doneRow to first row whose topic is "Completed" set doneRowLevel to level of doneRow move (every row whose state is checked and level is doneRowLevel and topic is not "Completed") to end of doneRow end tell This will do it, with one caveat: The "Completed" row needs to be the last row of the document[1]. The above is the only efficient way of doing it, although efficiency might not much matter depending on exactly how your document evolves. The other alternative would be a repeat loop instead of the filter clauses (every row whose blah). Then things could be more flexible, but would be a lot slower. Note that there are only 5 lines in the script, so if you see more than that, some vagary of e-mail mucked with it so you'll have to put things right. Cheers, Mike [1] Note to OmniGroup: In my opinion, this script should work even if the "Completed" row is, for example, in the first row in the document. From aenkerli at indiana.edu Tue Jan 13 20:58:09 2004 From: aenkerli at indiana.edu (Alexandre Enkerli) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: DocBook XML export In-Reply-To: <28F57284-4611-11D8-A97A-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <3F428E66-464E-11D8-B1A2-00039305ACAC@indiana.edu> > I'd like to hear some opinions about how DocBook exports might work > from inside of Outliner. *Really* glad you're thinking about this. > Just having a structured document isn't enough, you need all those > special DocBook tags in there too. Well, columns work really well for attributes. Couldn't they work for elements too? Otherwise, it could be something similar to the Notes pane only more structured. Each row is included in an element and we don't necessarily need to see this element all the time, so a hideable pane would be nice. There's also the model used by most XML editors (just came across jaxe.sf.net yesterday and it seems quite interesting). Have the tags actually surround the content. In OO, they could be similar to comments in Radio (and other Winer apps). > My first thought was to have a pop-up for each row Ugh... > highly unlikely we'll be able to stop a user from creating horribly > invalid DocBook files Too bad. We all (not just Mac users) need a good validating editor for XML documents and the outliner model works well. Especially if not everything is considered an outline row. > so we're just shooting for a faster-than-editing-xml-source approach > to producing the XML. Fair enough. In that case, why not shoot for producing good partial DocBook support instead of so-so complete support? Meaning, exporting a structured document to DocBook code (not necessarily a complete DocBook document) while preserving most features (fonts, styles, paragraphs, etc.) could work really well as a first step to DocBookification. After all, OO's output will need to be edited anyway... > Thoughts? Yes, a lot of them. OO-as-DocBook-editor was a large part of the (silly) "OmniDocument" fantasy I posted last summer. But more practically, the OO as DocBook helper could work well. From mark at imap-partners.net Wed Jan 14 01:30:11 2004 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: DocBook XML export In-Reply-To: <3F428E66-464E-11D8-B1A2-00039305ACAC@indiana.edu> References: <3F428E66-464E-11D8-B1A2-00039305ACAC@indiana.edu> Message-ID: <407EF796-4674-11D8-85BD-000A958A3014@imap-partners.net> On 14 Jan 2004, at 5:58, Alexandre Enkerli wrote: >> I'd like to hear some opinions about how DocBook exports might work >> from inside of Outliner. > *Really* glad you're thinking about this. me too > >> Just having a structured document isn't enough, you need all those >> special DocBook tags in there too. > Well, columns work really well for attributes. Couldn't they work for > elements too? > Otherwise, it could be something similar to the Notes pane only more > structured. Each row is included in an element and we don't > necessarily need to see this element all the time, so a hideable pane > would be nice. > There's also the model used by most XML editors (just came across > jaxe.sf.net yesterday and it seems quite interesting). Have the tags > actually surround the content. In OO, they could be similar to > comments in Radio (and other Winer apps). I'm assuming we are talking about OO3 (or higher) ? Without knowing what interface additions are going to be included, its hard to say how this could best be achieved. One thing I am hoping to see in OO3 (and which was not categorically excluded when I asked "support") is additional views. Tinderbox has two views which I would like to see in OO: "Map View" (though this might be more suitable as an "export to OG" item and "Explorer View". This "Explorer View" is one which lends itself fairly well to viewing and working with XML. Might the following work ? One innitially works with a file as a normal OOutline. When one is ready one selects "open in explorer view as a docbook file" (or similar). This renders the nodes (nodes become elements) of the outline as a hierachical list in a "sidebar" of the explorer view (maybe initially they just follow a number system like 1, 1.1, 1.2, 1.2.1, 1.3, 2 etc. or maybe you need to assign a column in the "original" ooutline to identify the "element name of the node" beforehand ?) The content of each element is rendered in a normal text view on the right. One can then assign Docbook tags to the nodes/elements in the "sidebar". A second column (an editable popup ?) in the "sidebar" could be used to add attributes to the elements. Whaddya think ? It requires the user to know how to initially build the OOutline file such that its structure will fit into the docbook DTD, but I don't see how you are going to get around this without building a fully fledged Docbook editor. I hope this takes off and if shooting my half-baked idea down helps then take aim ladies and gentlemen please, mark. From xmvaldez at stanfordalumni.org Wed Jan 14 07:38:27 2004 From: xmvaldez at stanfordalumni.org (Xochipala Maes Valdez) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: OmniOutliner and OmniGraffle In-Reply-To: <96EA2790-4545-11D8-B41D-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: For some reason OmniGraffle had not retained the new license number when I upgraded, but I was unaware of it because it was not telling me it was unregistered. Once I put the license number in everything worked fine. The outliner had more than 20 items so OmniGraffle without a license will handle it as read only. Xochi On 1/12/04 1:23 PM, "James M" wrote: > If Joel helps you resolve your problem would you mind posting the > solution back to the Outliner users list? > > -James > > Technical Support Engineer > Omni Group > > On Jan 11, 2004, at 9:35 AM, Xochipala Maes Valdez wrote: > >> I have opened an OmniOutliner doc in OmniGraffle to make a diagram and >> it >> comes out as read only in OmniGraffle, which means I cannot manipulate >> it at >> all. I open it from the Open command. Is there another way to import >> it so >> that I can have the material but also make changes to it? >> Thanks >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniOutliner-Users mailing list >> OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users > From tjw at omnigroup.com Wed Jan 14 12:05:56 2004 From: tjw at omnigroup.com (Timothy J. Wood) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Questions on upgrading file formats for OO3 Message-ID: <10717D0B-46CD-11D8-A5C7-000A95A6B0E4@omnigroup.com> We've been going around in circles on this one internally for quite a while now, so we thought it would be a good idea to ping the list. Some of the issues: - OO3 can read/write OO2 plist formatted files as well as its own XML format - OO3 can read OO2 XML files, but will upgrade them to the new OO3 DTD - This will produce a upgrade warning panel like many of you have seen between minor OO2 format changes - OO3's format is richer than many of the formats it can write to, so some features might be dropped on write (attachments, for example) Say you open up a OO2 file. You might want it upgraded to OO3's native format and you might want to leave it in the source format any number of valid reason. For example, with legacy formats (say, MORE), users might want to upgrade to OO3's native format, but for compatibility formats (OPML, OO2) they might prefer to keep that format so they can share with users running other outliners. When opening a non-OO3 file we can: - Make the document untitled, forcing the user to pick a new file to save to. - This fine for import-only formats, but for import/export formats, this would be really annoying - Set the document title to Filename.xmloutline so that when the user saves, they'll get a native file - Fairly transparent to the user - This avoids clobbering the original data, leaving it as a backup. - For formats like OPML that are used for sharing this would be really annoying - User might be unable to distinguish between the two files in Finder and accidentally open the old one - We could also optionally delete the original file the first time the user saves with the new format (with a prompt) - If we are able to write the source file format, just open the file w/o any warning panel - For advanced users for compatibility formats, this is really nice since you can just open/save the document - For novice users, they might use some feature of OO3 that can't be stored in the destination format. - Prompting them on save might be bad since they may have put a bunch of work into their document - Prompting them on open that they won't be able to use the extra features would be annoying - Pop up a panel giving the user the option to upgrade the file or leave it alone - Maybe store their answer in the resource fork - Not really nice for people using files in CVS or other non-HFS aware situations, though. When saving: - At a minimum, we want to prompt the user if they are using features that aren't supported by the target format - Even, this could be annoying... say you export to plain text; it would be annoying to get a warning that images can't be saved in plain text. - Might be nice to warn them the second they do something that isn't supported, but this would be easy to get wrong, leading to tons of annoying panels. I'm hoping to avoid some really complicated solution here, so people have comments on how often they use sharable formats and whether/why you'd want to keep using the OO2 format (sharing with other users on your network, for example?), that will help us come up with the "least bad" solution here :) Thanks! -tim From aenkerli at indiana.edu Wed Jan 14 13:14:52 2004 From: aenkerli at indiana.edu (Alexandre Enkerli) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Questions on upgrading file formats for OO3 In-Reply-To: <10717D0B-46CD-11D8-A5C7-000A95A6B0E4@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: > - OO3's format is richer than many of the formats it can write to Yeah! > so some features might be dropped on write (attachments, for example) Expected. > - Make the document untitled, forcing the user to pick a new file to > save to. Like TextEdit? Ugh! > - Set the document title to Filename.xmloutline so that when the user > saves, they'll get a native file Nice! > - For formats like OPML that are used for sharing this would be really > annoying Yes, OPML files should stay as is. > unable to distinguish between the two files in Finder Couldn't you use a different extension, like .oo3? > - We could also optionally delete the original file No! Why would you want to do that? > - Prompting them on open that they won't be able to use the extra > features would be annoying If so, the prompt could be disabled. > - At a minimum, we want to prompt the user if they are using features > that aren't supported by the target format Yes. It's expected. As the OO3 format is the least lossy format, it should be the format used except when the user specifically wants an exchange format. > it would be annoying to get a warning that images can't be saved in > plain text. Again, the user should be able to disable it "don't warn me next time." > how often they use sharable formats A fair deal but for very specific purposes. It's usually expected that an app will keep a doc in the least lossy format internally and be able to export it to other formats afterwards, with some loss of information. The exported versions are usually meant for specific purposes and the lost features are not supposed to matter in those purposes. In this perspective, an OO2 doc is no different from an HTML export... The most important thing here is that the added features in OO3 might be used in any document regardless of origin and conversion should preserve as much as possible. For exchange purposes, OPML should be used. Typically, one would like to keep the doc in OPML internally and convert to OO3 (? la TextEdit cmd-shift-t) to use extra features. Here's a scenario: I upgrade to OO3. After reading the document outlining changes from OO2, I'm advised to update my documents to OO3 to take advantage of these great new features. After doing a backup of most of my OO2 docs, I bulk update them to OO3. The original are kept for archival purposes and the new files are either in a separate folder or at least have a slightly different icon (with a '3' on). I work with my old outlines, add attachments (yeah!), feel good about upgrading until someone needs one of my outlines in OO2. No biggie, I do a "Save as..." to OO2 and send the file. Or, better yet, save it as OPML so Radio, MyMind, and Buzz users can use it. > and whether/why you'd want to keep using the OO2 format Nope! Might keep a copy of the original but not go back and forth... > (sharing with other users on your network, for example?) Either thedoc is converted back to OO2 or all users have upgraded to OO3. From jmck at mac.com Wed Jan 14 14:16:01 2004 From: jmck at mac.com (John McKenzie) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Questions on upgrading file formats for OO3 In-Reply-To: <10717D0B-46CD-11D8-A5C7-000A95A6B0E4@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <3C7F483B-46DF-11D8-B475-000A957F1AF0@mac.com> On Wednesday, January 14, 2004, at 03:05 PM, Timothy J. Wood wrote: > - At a minimum, we want to prompt the user if they are using features > that aren't supported by the target format > - Even, this could be annoying... say you export to plain text; it > would be annoying to get a warning that images can't be saved in plain > text. > - Might be nice to warn them the second they do something that isn't > supported, but this would be easy to get wrong, leading to tons of > annoying panels. Photoshop handles this reasonably well. Checkboxes at the bottom of the save dialog for various features dim themselves out if not available in the chosen format, and the "as a copy" checkbox then gets turned on. This is better than a modal warning, IMHO. John McKenzie From fraser at speirs.org Thu Jan 15 01:02:57 2004 From: fraser at speirs.org (Fraser Speirs) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Questions on upgrading file formats for OO3 In-Reply-To: <10717D0B-46CD-11D8-A5C7-000A95A6B0E4@omnigroup.com> References: <10717D0B-46CD-11D8-A5C7-000A95A6B0E4@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <9CDF4CB8-4739-11D8-83D3-000A9593106E@speirs.org> On 14 Jan 2004, at 20:05, Timothy J. Wood wrote: > - If we are able to write the source file format, just open the file > w/o any warning panel > - For advanced users for compatibility formats, this is really nice > since you can just open/save the document > - For novice users, they might use some feature of OO3 that can't be > stored in the destination format. > - Prompting them on save might be bad since they may have put a > bunch of work into their document > - Prompting them on open that they won't be able to use the extra > features would be annoying In this situation, perhaps you could warn the user when they attempt to use a feature that can't be written out, and at that point give them the opportunity to upgrade to native. > - Pop up a panel giving the user the option to upgrade the file or > leave it alone > - Maybe store their answer in the resource fork > - Not really nice for people using files in CVS or other non-HFS > aware situations, though. Please, please try and avoid using the resource fork! I put OO files in CVS a fair bit, and their great strength is that they're fundamentally textual. > I'm hoping to avoid some really complicated solution here, so people > have comments on how often they use sharable formats and whether/why > you'd want to keep using the OO2 format (sharing with other users on > your network, for example?), that will help us come up with the "least > bad" solution here :) When I share the contents of an OO document, I create in OO and then export to HTML or RTF. Generally, I don't collaboratively edit documents with other people. I don't have any particular need to keep the OO2 format going forward. Cheers, Fraser -- http://www.speirs.org - http://www.mycamera.org.uk * Please do not send me email jokes * From lists at infoarts.info Fri Jan 16 14:35:51 2004 From: lists at infoarts.info (Richard Sandilands) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:16 2005 Subject: Getting Things Done? Message-ID: Hi there It's a long shot I know but is anyone out there using OO to implement David Allen's "Getting Things Done" time-management method? If so, I'd love to hear how you set up your outline. More info at http://www.davidco.com and no, I'm not connected with them in any way, apart from having bought the book. Regards Richard -- Richard Sandilands mob: 0415 167 701 aim: infoarts3 web: http://infoarts.info pix: http://richardsandilands.com mac: http://macsupport.com.au zac: http://richardsandilands.com/zac/ From johnj1 at mac.com Sat Jan 17 13:24:47 2004 From: johnj1 at mac.com (John Johnson) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Getting Things Done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93CEE3D4-4933-11D8-88DB-000393853398@mac.com> I do use a lot of components of the Getting Things Done method (I listened to the book from Audible.com). I implement a ticker file of sorts with OO, by creating a date column and keeping sorted by date. I like the infinite possibilities of creating a hierarchy. There's no magic to this. I have a "Followup" main topic and a "Someday maybe" main topic. I then list different areas of my life, and create subcategories under those as needed. I'd be interested in hearing anyone else's experience. -John On Jan 16, 2004, at 5:35 PM, Richard Sandilands wrote: > Hi there > > It's a long shot I know but is anyone out there using OO to implement > David Allen's "Getting Things Done" time-management method? > > If so, I'd love to hear how you set up your outline. > > More info at http://www.davidco.com and no, I'm not connected with them > in any way, apart from having bought the book. > > Regards > > Richard > > -- > Richard Sandilands > > mob: 0415 167 701 > aim: infoarts3 > web: http://infoarts.info > pix: http://richardsandilands.com > mac: http://macsupport.com.au > zac: http://richardsandilands.com/zac/ > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users > From johnj1 at mac.com Sat Jan 17 13:26:11 2004 From: johnj1 at mac.com (John Johnson) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Getting Things Done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh, this isn't related to OO, but I implement my next actions list with iCal. The good folks at Omni wrote a script that takes OO to-do items and writes them to iCal. On Jan 16, 2004, at 5:35 PM, Richard Sandilands wrote: > Hi there > > It's a long shot I know but is anyone out there using OO to implement > David Allen's "Getting Things Done" time-management method? > > If so, I'd love to hear how you set up your outline. > > More info at http://www.davidco.com and no, I'm not connected with them > in any way, apart from having bought the book. > > Regards > > Richard > > -- > Richard Sandilands > > mob: 0415 167 701 > aim: infoarts3 > web: http://infoarts.info > pix: http://richardsandilands.com > mac: http://macsupport.com.au > zac: http://richardsandilands.com/zac/ > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users > From lists at infoarts.info Sat Jan 17 15:03:06 2004 From: lists at infoarts.info (Richard Sandilands) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Applescript question Message-ID: Hi there I'm wanting to use applescript to re-arrange an outline from this (where the children are topics and the project is set via a pop-up list in a second column): ------------------------- Parent A - child A project X - child B project Y - child C project X Parent B - child D project Y - child E project Y - child F project X ------------------------- to this: ------------------------- Project X - child A parent A - child C parent A - child F parent B Project Y - child B parent A - child D parent B - child E parent B ------------------------- The resulting outline does not need to have the second column operative as a popup list: it is sufficient to have those values as text. Any clues would be greatly appreciated. Regards Richard -- Richard Sandilands aim: infoarts3 web: http://infoarts.info pix: http://richardsandilands.com mac: http://macsupport.com.au zac: http://richardsandilands.com/zac/ From lrivers at mac.com Sat Jan 17 17:16:36 2004 From: lrivers at mac.com (Lorin Rivers) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Getting Things Done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I arrange my to do list into projects (typically with a higher-level organizing principle as well "Marketing" or such like). Then I list action items inside the projects. I have a column for rank -- the next action item I assign a "1" priority. I have an AppleScript which then copies the items with any number in the rank column to another list that is my "real" to do list. On Jan 16, 2004, at 4:35 PM, Richard Sandilands wrote: > Hi there > > It's a long shot I know but is anyone out there using OO to implement > David Allen's "Getting Things Done" time-management method? > > If so, I'd love to hear how you set up your outline. > > More info at http://www.davidco.com and no, I'm not connected with them > in any way, apart from having bought the book. > > Regards > > Richard > > -- > Richard Sandilands > > mob: 0415 167 701 > aim: infoarts3 > web: http://infoarts.info > pix: http://richardsandilands.com > mac: http://macsupport.com.au > zac: http://richardsandilands.com/zac/ > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users > > -- Lorin Rivers Marketing Professional 512/203.3198 (m) 408/580.8588 (f) From curt.clifton at mac.com Sat Jan 17 21:25:35 2004 From: curt.clifton at mac.com (Curtis Clifton) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Problem with Scripts Created on Panther Message-ID: Hi! I'm working on some OO scripting for the first time since installing Panther. I had some difficulty to get the new scripts to work from OO's Script menu. I think it is because Script Editor under Panther saves scripts to the data fork, while previously scripts were saved in the resource fork. I had an old script, call it Script One, that just displays a simple dialog box (contents of script attached). Script One runs fine from the OO Script menu. I did a Save As.. from Script Editor and made a duplicate of the script with a new name, call it Script Two. Script Two does not work from the OO Script menu. I copied an old script using the Finder and named the copy Script Three. I opened Script Three in Script Editor and changed the content. Then I saved. Script Three runs fine from the OO Script menu. Using the command 'ls -l' in Terminal, I discovered that Script One and Script Three show a size of 0, because their contents are in the resource fork. But Script Two, created by Panther's Script Editor, shows a non-zero size, because its contents are in the data fork. After a bit Googling, I discovered the command 'osacompile', a command-ilne utility for compiling AppleScripts. The utility is in /usr/bin on Panther and, by default, outputs the compiled script in the resource fork. After compiling the troublesome script with osacompile, it runs without a hitch from OO's script menu. In summary: - OO does not handling data-fork only scripts from its Script menu. - Panther's Script Editor creates data-fork only scripts by default. - Using osacompile from the Terminal is a work-around. -- Curt From formido at mac.com Sat Jan 17 21:36:46 2004 From: formido at mac.com (Michael Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Problem with Scripts Created on Panther In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E7D227A-4978-11D8-8C83-0030657075EA@mac.com> On Jan 17, 2004, at 9:25 PM, Curtis Clifton wrote: > - Using osacompile from the Terminal is a work-around. > That's a good idea. I'm surprised osacompile still saves to the resource fork. Another work-around is to save scripts using the free script editor from Satimage called Smile. OmniGroup is aware of this bug; surely it will be fixed in the next release. Mike From curt.clifton at mac.com Sat Jan 17 21:56:01 2004 From: curt.clifton at mac.com (Curtis Clifton) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Problem with Scripts Created on Panther In-Reply-To: <4E7D227A-4978-11D8-8C83-0030657075EA@mac.com> References: <4E7D227A-4978-11D8-8C83-0030657075EA@mac.com> Message-ID: Mike, On Jan 17, 2004, at 11:36 PM, Michael Terry wrote: > On Jan 17, 2004, at 9:25 PM, Curtis Clifton wrote: > >> - Using osacompile from the Terminal is a work-around. > > That's a good idea. I'm surprised osacompile still saves to the > resource fork. That's the default, though osacompile will also write to the data fork. 'man osacompile' is our friend. > Another work-around is to save scripts using the free script editor > from Satimage called Smile. I'll look into that. Thanks for the reference. While a veteran programmer, I'm fairly new to AppleScripting. Cheers, -- Curt From bjterry at adelphia.net Sat Jan 17 22:35:59 2004 From: bjterry at adelphia.net (BJ Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Applescript question In-Reply-To: <63339708-496F-11D8-8C83-0030657075EA@mac.com> References: <63339708-496F-11D8-8C83-0030657075EA@mac.com> Message-ID: <93CF02B4-4980-11D8-8364-000A95A51EE4@adelphia.net> > Hi there > > I'm wanting to use applescript to re-arrange an outline from this > (where > the children are topics and the project is set via a pop-up list in a > second column): > > The resulting outline does not need to have the second column operative > as a popup list: it is sufficient to have those values as text. > > Any clues would be greatly appreciated. > > Regards > > Richard Here's what I came up with. It takes 93 seconds to run on my machine for a file with 50 parents, 10 projects, and 700 rows. You can't set the second column to a popup from the applescript interface, because OO doesn't let you set the options, and isn't smart enough to take the text you give it: on makeObj(myParent, myValue, myProject) --simple data structure to script property parentValue : myParent property rowValue : myValue property project : myProject end script end makeObj set rowList to {} set projectList to {} tell application "OmniOutliner" tell document 1 repeat with i from 1 to (count rows) set currentRow to row i if level of currentRow is equal to 2 then set currentParent to currentRow's parent 1's topic set currentProject to currentRow's cell 3's text set end of rowList to my makeObj(currentParent, currentRow's topic, currentProject) if not (projectList contains currentProject) then set end of projectList to currentProject end if end if end repeat end tell make new document tell document 1 delete row 1 make new column at end repeat with projectCount from 1 to count projectList set currentProject to projectList's item projectCount set currentProjectRow to make new row at end with properties {topic:currentProject} repeat with rowCount from 1 to count rowList set currentRow to rowList's item rowCount if currentRow's project is equal to currentProject then set newRow to make new row at end of currentProjectRow with properties {topic:currentRow's rowValue} set newRow's cell 3's text to currentRow's parentValue end if end repeat end repeat end tell end tell BJ From formido at mac.com Sat Jan 17 22:43:03 2004 From: formido at mac.com (Michael Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Problem with Scripts Created on Panther In-Reply-To: References: <4E7D227A-4978-11D8-8C83-0030657075EA@mac.com> Message-ID: <90D20DEA-4981-11D8-8C83-0030657075EA@mac.com> On Jan 17, 2004, at 9:56 PM, Curtis Clifton wrote: > While a veteran programmer Heh. Yeah, I guessed that from the precision and completeness of your last post. Mike From formido at mac.com Sat Jan 17 22:51:22 2004 From: formido at mac.com (Michael Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Applescript question In-Reply-To: <93CF02B4-4980-11D8-8364-000A95A51EE4@adelphia.net> References: <63339708-496F-11D8-8C83-0030657075EA@mac.com> <93CF02B4-4980-11D8-8364-000A95A51EE4@adelphia.net> Message-ID: On Jan 17, 2004, at 10:35 PM, BJ Terry wrote: > Here's what I came up with. It takes 93 seconds to run on my machine > for a file with 50 parents, 10 projects, and 700 rows. You can't set > the second column to a popup from the applescript interface, because > OO doesn't let you set the options, and isn't smart enough to take the > text you give it: > Well, since I spent all this time working on it, here's mine too: :) On a similar test case as BJ's, it takes an unconscionable amount of time. I didn't really think Richard might have 700 rows(!) in his document. It works fine on small documents, though. Cheers, Mike on run set valsLst to {} tell application "OmniOutliner" tell front document repeat with thisRow in (get every row) if thisRow's cell 3's text does not start with "Project" then set colVal to thisRow's topic else set projName to thisRow's cell 3's text if not my existsProj(valsLst, projName) then set valsLst to valsLst & {projName, {}} end if run script "{topicVal:" & my quoteForAS(thisRow's topic) & ", parentVal:" & my quoteForAS(colVal) & "}" my addProjItem(valsLst, projName, result) end if end repeat end tell tell (make new document at end) delete first row make new column at end my insertOutline(valsLst, it) end tell end tell end run on insertOutline(outlineData, parentRow) repeat with itm in outlineData tell application "OmniOutliner" --to tell front document if itm's class is list then my insertOutline(itm, last row of front document) else if itm's class is in {Unicode text, string} then tell parentRow to make new row at end with properties {topic:itm} else if itm's class is record then tell parentRow to make new row at end with properties {topic:itm's topicval} set result's cell 3's text to itm's parentval end if end tell end repeat end insertOutline on quoteForAS(str) try return & str & return as event as script as RGB color on error msg return "\"" & msg's text from paragraph 2 to paragraph -2 & "\"" end try end quoteForAS on addProjItem(lst, name, val) repeat with i from 1 to (count lst) by 2 if lst's item i is name then set end of lst's item (i + 1) to val end if end repeat return end addProjItem on existsProj(lst, proj) repeat with i from 1 to (count lst) by 2 if lst's item i is proj then return true end repeat return false end existsProj From lists at infoarts.info Sat Jan 17 23:35:43 2004 From: lists at infoarts.info (Richard Sandilands) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Applescript question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you very much to both BJ Terry & Michael Terry for your help. I'm off to go and play with the scripts, and in doing so will take heed of the osacompile advice that Curtis Clifton provided a little earlier. Regards Richard Sandilands From lists at infoarts.info Sat Jan 17 23:50:45 2004 From: lists at infoarts.info (Richard Sandilands) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Applescript question In-Reply-To: <93CF02B4-4980-11D8-8364-000A95A51EE4@adelphia.net> Message-ID: BJ's script works perfectly in that the resulting document is exactly what I was after. However, the new document can't be saved nor can items be copied or dragged to a new document. In the latter case, OO throws the following error: *** -[NSCFDictionary setObject:forKey:]: attempt to insert nil value Thought I'd let you know. Richard Sandilands From bjterry at adelphia.net Sun Jan 18 01:27:22 2004 From: bjterry at adelphia.net (BJ Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Applescript question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <851AC856-4998-11D8-8364-000A95A51EE4@adelphia.net> That appears to be a bug in Omni-Outliner. If you change the line which reads: make new column at end to make new column at end with properties {title:"Parent", type:plain text, summary type:none} it allows you to save it. I don't know why this is necessary. I knew that it had to be one of the uninitialized properties that was causing the error, so I added these explicit calls throughout the code, one at a time, until one just made it work. I tested it with just that change though, and it works on my machine, so it should be fine now. I never thought to save my test documents. BJ On Jan 17, 2004, at 11:50 PM, Richard Sandilands wrote: > BJ's script works perfectly in that the resulting document is exactly > what I was after. > > However, the new document can't be saved nor can items be copied or > dragged to a new document. > > In the latter case, OO throws the following error: > > *** -[NSCFDictionary setObject:forKey:]: attempt to insert nil value > > > Thought I'd let you know. > > Richard Sandilands From schakwin at sbcglobal.net Sun Jan 18 10:13:36 2004 From: schakwin at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Chakwin) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Getting Things Done In-Reply-To: <200401172000.i0HK0Xom022354@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: On 1/17/04 3:00 PM, "omnioutliner-users-request@omnigroup.com" wrote: > Send OmniOutliner-Users mailing list submissions to > omnioutliner-users@omnigroup.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > omnioutliner-users-request@omnigroup.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > omnioutliner-users-owner@omnigroup.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of OmniOutliner-Users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Getting Things Done? (Richard Sandilands) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 09:35:51 +1100 > From: Richard Sandilands > Subject: Getting Things Done? > To: omnioutliner-users@omnigroup.com > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Hi there > > It's a long shot I know but is anyone out there using OO to implement > David Allen's "Getting Things Done" time-management method? > > If so, I'd love to hear how you set up your outline. > > More info at http://www.davidco.com and no, I'm not connected with them > in any way, apart from having bought the book. > > Regards > > Richard I tried and decided that it was not the right format for an OO-type outline. I'm now working something up in Tinderbox, which is a lot more complicated to work with, but offers the flexibility that you need. In my experience, OO is fine for the project list aspect of GTD (what you use for a weekly review) but without a cloning ability, which I'm informed we won't see even in the currently planned OO3, won't really do to keep your To-Dos set up the way they would have to be in this type of outliner - as both subheads of their respective projects and as organized into contextual tasks (telephone, at computer, home, at office, etc.). Also, if you are serious about using GTD, you really ought to have the to-do list with you at all times so if you find yourself with a few moments and a telephone, you can pull out your call list and get to work. This means that you either have to find a way to translate your OO outlines to an electronic organizer or print them out. I would print them out, but some might find that a problem. In Tinderbox, everything is a separate note of information that you can gather and organize by using functions called "Agents" [they have wraparound sunglasses and attitude problems]. Thus, you create a prototype for To-dos which shows, among other things, their parent projects and a prototype for Projects which shows, among other things, their parent projects, so you can have sub-projects (or go as deep as you want) and then set up the contexts as part of your to-Dos. The agents will sort them by context and you've got your lists (you can tell the agents that you don't want any completed To-dos showing up in your lists if you wish). Tinderbox is not cheap and has a learning curve that is not enhanced by its opaque documentation, but if you are patient and willing to work your way through it (or know the product and want me to send you a dummy file off-list) you may find it worthwhile. Note that you have the same issues about portability that you have with OO - it doesn't do portables so you have to do printouts. Stephen From lists at infoarts.info Sun Jan 18 12:15:03 2004 From: lists at infoarts.info (Richard Sandilands) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Getting Things Done In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 18/1/04 Stephen Chakwin wrote: > won't really do to keep your To-Dos set up the way they would have > to be in this type of outliner - as both subheads of their > respective projects and as organized into contextual tasks > (telephone, at computer, home, at office, etc.). To acheive this in OO, I resorted to an applescript that transforms my context-based outline into one organised by project. See the "Applescript question" thread over the last two days where this issue was discussed and scripting help kindly provided by list members. > Also, if you are serious about using GTD, you really ought to have > the to-do list with you at all times so if you find yourself with a > few moments and a telephone, you can pull out your call list and get > to work. This means that you either have to find a way to translate > your OO outlines to an electronic organizer or print them out. I > would print them out, but some might find that a problem. Again, the way I've made this happen is via ShadowPlan on the Palm. There are some scripts floating around on the web that convert an OO outline into a Shadow outline which can then be synced to the Palm. Not ideal but it works. I've actually been thinking that Filemaker might be the tool for implementing GTD. There is a Palm version and it is very easy to create a custom database that has the flexibility required to implement GTD. Regards Richard -- Richard Sandilands aim: infoarts3 web: http://infoarts.info pix: http://richardsandilands.com mac: http://macsupport.com.au zac: http://richardsandilands.com/zac/ From formido at mac.com Sun Jan 18 18:10:21 2004 From: formido at mac.com (Michael Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Applescript question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 17, 2004, at 3:03 PM, Richard Sandilands wrote: > I'm wanting to use applescript to re-arrange an outline from this > (where > the children are topics and the project is set via a pop-up list in a > second column): OK, here's a version that doesn't fall into the same speed traps as either of the other two. It should be quite a bit faster. Also, it doesn't ignore rows that are more than two levels deep. Mike on run insertOutline(getRowRecords(), prepNewDoc()) end run on getRowRecords() set rowRecsLst to {} tell front document of application "OmniOutliner" to set {everyTopic, everyLevel} to {topic, level} of every row repeat with i from 1 to (count everyTopic) if everyLevel's item i is 1 then set colVal to everyTopic's item i else tell front document of application "OmniOutliner" to set projName to row i's cell 3's text if not my existsProj(rowRecsLst, projName) then set rowRecsLst to rowRecsLst & {my newRowRec(projName, ""), {}} end if my addProjItem(rowRecsLst, projName, my newRowRec(everyTopic's item i, colVal)) end if end repeat return rowRecsLst end getRowRecords on prepNewDoc() tell application "OmniOutliner" tell (make new document at end) delete first row make new column at end with properties {type:plain text, title:""} return it end tell end tell end prepNewDoc on newRowRec(t, p) script property topicValue : t property parentValue : p end script end newRowRec on insertOutline(outlineData, parentObj) using terms from application "OmniOutliner" repeat with itm from 1 to (count outlineData) if outlineData's item itm's class is list then my insertOutline(outlineData's item itm, last row of front document of application "OmniOutliner") else tell parentObj to make new row at end with properties {topic:outlineData's item itm's topicValue} tell result if outlineData's item itm's parentValue is not "" then set cell 3's text to outlineData's item itm's parentValue end if end tell end if end repeat end using terms from end insertOutline on addProjItem(lst, name, val) repeat with i from 1 to (count lst) by 2 if lst's item i's topicValue is name then set end of lst's item (i + 1) to val end if end repeat return end addProjItem on existsProj(lst, proj) repeat with i from 1 to (count lst) by 2 if lst's item i's topicValue is proj then return true end repeat return false end existsProj From lists at infoarts.info Sun Jan 18 18:26:07 2004 From: lists at infoarts.info (Richard Sandilands) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Applescript question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That's really snappy and it works a treat: well done. Richard Sandilands From keydel at apple.com Sun Jan 18 20:24:33 2004 From: keydel at apple.com (Stefan Keydel) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Getting Things Done Message-ID: Getting way, way off topic here, but I just wanted to add that Life Balance is a tool a lot of folks are using to implement the GTD system. I have both Tinderbox and Life Balance, and while Tinderbox is clearly the more versatile app, Life Balance is ready practically out of the box for Getting Things Done. What makes it even better suited for what you're doing, Richard, is the fact that it started out as a Palm app and now has a very robust desktop implementation with seamless synchronization to the Palm version. Worth a look. Stefan On 1/19/04 at 7:15 AM, lists@infoarts.info (Richard Sandilands) wrote: >On 18/1/04 Stephen Chakwin wrote: > >> won't really do to keep your To-Dos set up the way they would have >> to be in this type of outliner - as both subheads of their >> respective projects and as organized into contextual tasks >> (telephone, at computer, home, at office, etc.). > >To acheive this in OO, I resorted to an applescript that transforms my >context-based outline into one organised by project. See the >"Applescript question" thread over the last two days where this issue >was discussed and scripting help kindly provided by list members. > >> Also, if you are serious about using GTD, you really ought to have >> the to-do list with you at all times so if you find yourself with a >> few moments and a telephone, you can pull out your call list and get >> to work. This means that you either have to find a way to translate >> your OO outlines to an electronic organizer or print them out. I >> would print them out, but some might find that a problem. > >Again, the way I've made this happen is via ShadowPlan on the Palm. >There are some scripts floating around on the web that convert an OO >outline into a Shadow outline which can then be synced to the Palm. > >Not ideal but it works. > >I've actually been thinking that Filemaker might be the tool for >implementing GTD. There is a Palm version and it is very easy to create >a custom database that has the flexibility required to implement GTD. > >Regards > >Richard > From schakwin at sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 19 12:33:20 2004 From: schakwin at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Chakwin) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: GTD miscellaneous stuff In-Reply-To: <200401192000.i0JK0eom011429@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: Let me respond to some recent posts concerning implementing the David Allen Getting Things Done paradigm through OO. A lawyers' Mac-using group that I am part of fooled around with an FMP implementation of GTD but I don't think it caught on for a combination of reasons: it was a little awkward to set it up and keep it current. Also the issue of using a Palm as an entry/monitoring device is a real one. I used LifeBalance for several months to run my own version of GTD and ultimately gave up on it. I agree that it's an excellent application of its kind and that it works well in handing data back and forth between Palm and Mac. It's also available (or was) as a free trial for a set time and has very good discussion forums (and nice and responsive tech people), so if you find it attractive, give it a shot. I wound up not using it because I found that the Palm did not work well for me as a list maintainer or as a calendar. It's a fine telephone and address book and an excellent way to keep snippets of useful information, but I found a paper calendar much more flexible, much easier to enter and customize information in, and better suited to my needs. For on-the-run catching information and ideas, I use a small digital recorder by Sony that fits into a shirt pocket and a tiny notebook with an attached collapsable pen in a leather case that doubles as a business card holder. For Project lists I used OO, then Word, then Entourage before my current venture into Tinderbox. I could derive context-defined To-Dos in all of the applications that I used, but Tinderbox gives me the best tools for keeping them anchored to both the context and the project from which they are derived. Bear in mind that the David Allen system - which I have known about since at least 1998, written about, and taught informally - although it is the best system I know of to keep entropy at bay, demands a lot of discipline and a lot of maintenance to work well. When I have let it lapse, it turns into a nightmare because its main virtue (that it's foolproof) vanishes, and you are left with a complicated, attention-demanding, but not especially useful, group of activities. I strongly urge anyone considering this system to buy and read "Getting Things Done" (it's in paperback on Amazon, is not expensive, and is easy and enjoyable to read) and do what it tells you to do to clean up your messes. Only after you have done this will you appreciate both how powerful and how demanding it is. The GTD system, by the way, does not care about technology. You can implement it perfectly with a few dollars' worth of supplies and a trip to Staples. Or you can spend as much as you wish on cool things to make it fun. It doesn't care. It works if you do. Stephen From jmck at mac.com Tue Jan 20 08:13:20 2004 From: jmck at mac.com (John McKenzie) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: feature request In-Reply-To: <3C7F483B-46DF-11D8-B475-000A957F1AF0@mac.com> Message-ID: <906AE124-4B63-11D8-BE01-000A957F1AF0@mac.com> SubEthaEdit (is that really what it's called now?) looks cool. Collaborative editing... that's cool. How cool would it be to have this functionality in OmniOutliner? Imagine group to-do lists... John McKenzie From jam at omnigroup.com Tue Jan 20 10:22:13 2004 From: jam at omnigroup.com (James Moore) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Problem with Scripts Created on Panther In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91FA58B0-4B75-11D8-8171-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> Interesting, I don't think any of us here were aware that using osacompile would produce a usable script. ( I certainly wasn't) The scripts are working fine in our OO3 alpha builds so whatever the bug is appears to have been fixed. -James Technical Support Engineer Omni Group On Jan 17, 2004, at 9:25 PM, Curtis Clifton wrote: > Hi! I'm working on some OO scripting for the first time since > installing Panther. I had some difficulty to get the new scripts to > work from OO's Script menu. I think it is because Script Editor under > Panther saves scripts to the data fork, while previously scripts were > saved in the resource fork. > > I had an old script, call it Script One, that just displays a simple > dialog box (contents of script attached). Script One runs fine from > the OO Script menu. > > I did a Save As.. from Script Editor and made a duplicate of the > script with a new name, call it Script Two. Script Two does not work > from the OO Script menu. > > I copied an old script using the Finder and named the copy Script > Three. I opened Script Three in Script Editor and changed the > content. Then I saved. Script Three runs fine from the OO Script > menu. > > Using the command 'ls -l' in Terminal, I discovered that Script One > and Script Three show a size of 0, because their contents are in the > resource fork. But Script Two, created by Panther's Script Editor, > shows a non-zero size, because its contents are in the data fork. > > After a bit Googling, I discovered the command 'osacompile', a > command-ilne utility for compiling AppleScripts. The utility is in > /usr/bin on Panther and, by default, outputs the compiled script in > the resource fork. After compiling the troublesome script with > osacompile, it runs without a hitch from OO's script menu. > > In summary: > > - OO does not handling data-fork only scripts from its Script menu. > - Panther's Script Editor creates data-fork only scripts by default. > - Using osacompile from the Terminal is a work-around. > > -- Curt > > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users From dvorak at omnigroup.com Tue Jan 20 12:09:08 2004 From: dvorak at omnigroup.com (Brian C.) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: feature request In-Reply-To: <906AE124-4B63-11D8-BE01-000A957F1AF0@mac.com> Message-ID: <813981D7-4B84-11D8-A959-000393196FEA@omnigroup.com> This is something I'd like to see us do on a framework-wide level, so all our apps could take advantage of it. I'm sure it's going to take someone smarter than me to do, that though. We have something in our feature request database on this; attaching your email (this ups the visibility of this request in the DB.) Thanks! Sincerely, Brian C. Support Manager Omni Group On Tuesday, January 20, 2004, at 08:13 AM, John McKenzie wrote: > SubEthaEdit (is that really what it's called now?) looks cool. > Collaborative editing... that's cool. > > How cool would it be to have this functionality in OmniOutliner? > Imagine group to-do lists... > > John McKenzie > > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users From jam at omnigroup.com Tue Jan 20 13:00:05 2004 From: jam at omnigroup.com (James Moore) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Applescript question In-Reply-To: <851AC856-4998-11D8-8364-000A95A51EE4@adelphia.net> References: <851AC856-4998-11D8-8364-000A95A51EE4@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <9F36B462-4B8B-11D8-8171-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> It does appear to be a bug in Outliner. I'll file a bug report based on these emails. Hopefully we'll be able to iron out these kinds of issues during the beta period. -James Technical Support Engineer Omni Group On Jan 18, 2004, at 1:27 AM, BJ Terry wrote: > That appears to be a bug in Omni-Outliner. If you change the line > which reads: > > make new column at end > > to > > make new column at end with properties {title:"Parent", type:plain > text, summary type:none} > > it allows you to save it. I don't know why this is necessary. I knew > that it had to be one of the uninitialized properties that was causing > the error, so I added these explicit calls throughout the code, one at > a time, until one just made it work. I tested it with just that change > though, and it works on my machine, so it should be fine now. I never > thought to save my test documents. > > BJ > > On Jan 17, 2004, at 11:50 PM, Richard Sandilands wrote: > >> BJ's script works perfectly in that the resulting document is exactly >> what I was after. >> >> However, the new document can't be saved nor can items be copied or >> dragged to a new document. >> >> In the latter case, OO throws the following error: >> >> *** -[NSCFDictionary setObject:forKey:]: attempt to insert nil value >> >> >> Thought I'd let you know. >> >> Richard Sandilands > > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users From tedg at alum.mit.edu Tue Jan 20 18:31:36 2004 From: tedg at alum.mit.edu (Ted Goranson) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Writing Work Flows Message-ID: I hope you are enjoying my outliner pieces at: http://www.atpm.com/Back/atpo.shtml I am planning a column on writing workflows. Therefore, I would appreciate hearing from anyone who uses an outliner, presumably OO, and routinely transfers to a word processing or DTP application. Particularly interested in unusual combinations (for instance to RagTime or LaTeX), but any wp or web tool would be of interest. Message me privately, please: Best, Ted -- Ted Goranson Advanced Enterprise Research Office From aenkerli at indiana.edu Tue Jan 20 22:09:32 2004 From: aenkerli at indiana.edu (Alexandre Enkerli) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Takashi Hamada's "FO" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6138905D-4BD8-11D8-AFAD-00039305ACAC@indiana.edu> Well, I receive MacUpdate's Daily and often look at new note-taking and outlining tools when they come out. This one I noticed. It's called "FO" (no, it doesn't seem to have to do with "Formatting Objects") and it has a few interesting things I've been looking for. http://homepage.mac.com/takashi_hamada/Acti/MacOSX/FO/index.html One of the features I really like is that every item has creation and modification times. Now, that's what I call note-taking! It has bookmarks and links, image support, export to several formats, word/character count, a reorientable notes pane, labels... It also has a number of quirks and doesn't show OO's maturity. It's just one of those programs that shows good promise. For half an hour now I've been documenting FO's cool and uncool features (in a FO document, of course) and I have about as much items for both, including qualifiers to things I don't like. As I said, it's nowhere as mature as OO. But I hope it can serve as an example for a few features some of us have been looking for... From lists at mostrom.pp.se Wed Jan 21 05:18:35 2004 From: lists at mostrom.pp.se (Jan Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mostr=F6m?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Setting note font Message-ID: I seem to remember that there was a way to set the note font/size for all notes in a document without using a loop, unfortunately I'm not able to figure out the syntax. Do I remember wrong (I have to use a loop) or could someone tell me how to write it? jem -- Jan Erik Mostr?m jem@mostrom.pp.se www.mostrom.pp.se From bjterry at adelphia.net Wed Jan 21 10:42:12 2004 From: bjterry at adelphia.net (BJ Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Setting note font In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86E59C9C-4C41-11D8-87EE-000A95A51EE4@adelphia.net> tell application "OmniOutliner" set the size of note of every row of document 1 to mySize end tell Using "every" you can set a property of multiple elements with one statement. It's also much faster, as it only has to send 1 apple-event instead of 1 for each row. Note is a text object, so you can use all the properties and commands in OO's extended text suite. 'BJ On Jan 21, 2004, at 5:18 AM, Jan Erik Mostr?m wrote: > I seem to remember that there was a way to set the note font/size for > all notes in a document without using a loop, unfortunately I'm not > able > to figure out the syntax. > > Do I remember wrong (I have to use a loop) or could someone tell me how > to write it? > > jem > -- > Jan Erik Mostr?m jem@mostrom.pp.se www.mostrom.pp.se > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users > From lists at mostrom.pp.se Thu Jan 22 22:47:55 2004 From: lists at mostrom.pp.se (Jan Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mostr=F6m?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: OO to PP Message-ID: Unfortunately I'm not able to use Keynote (it will not advance to the next slide for some reason, the same presentation on some other computer works just fine) so I'm currently trying to move to PowerPoint but I haven't figured out a good way to transfer my OO outline to something that can be read by PP. Yes, I can create a simple textfile that contains the outline without the notes, but I would like to include the notes also. Any advice? jem -- Jan Erik Mostr?m jem@mostrom.pp.se www.mostrom.pp.se From jaharmi at mac.com Fri Jan 23 05:46:18 2004 From: jaharmi at mac.com (Jeremy Reichman) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Integrated Timeline Function between OmniOutline and OmniGraffle In-Reply-To: <1E3D11FA-4610-11D8-A97A-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> References: <1E3D11FA-4610-11D8-A97A-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <8591882B-4DAA-11D8-990A-000A95C4FBFA@mac.com> I would also be interested in some solution that would let me take schedule-type data in OO and link/export it to OG as a visual schedule. I do a lot of this and it's not much fun; I currently use a text-based setup in Excel, and it's clunky. It's something I've considered scripting between OO and OG, but haven't had the time to really think about how to automate it. Like timelines, which I think would be great as well, I don't know of any good Mac apps to do this. Some of the apps that generate Gantt charts are somewhat similar, but not quite what I'm looking for. Let me describe a little bit more in words: 1. I have schedule data that, in some fashion, describes who is working, when they are working, and where they are working. The format for this is not necessarily important, as long as it is useful. I typically keep this data in Excel but it's simple enough that it could be a list/outline, possibly with columns, in OO. 2. I want to have a live link, if possible, between this data and a visual schedule printout. That printout would look something like the "week view" in any calendar program -- let's just say iCal or Entourage, for simplicity. "Shifts" should resemble blocks of time, much as you would see if you had a meeting in your own schedule in iCal or Entourage. The schedule has to accommodate more than one "shift" for each day. It should be able to accommodate overlapping "shifts" for people. I would like to be able to assign a color for each person, wherever their name appears, on the schedule, to make it easier to show where they are working. It would be nice if that color persisted between OO and OG updates. -- Jeremy Reichman From jaharmi at mac.com Fri Jan 23 05:53:06 2004 From: jaharmi at mac.com (Jeremy Reichman) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Questions on upgrading file formats for OO3 In-Reply-To: <9CDF4CB8-4739-11D8-83D3-000A9593106E@speirs.org> References: <10717D0B-46CD-11D8-A5C7-000A95A6B0E4@omnigroup.com> <9CDF4CB8-4739-11D8-83D3-000A9593106E@speirs.org> Message-ID: <78AFE4B9-4DAB-11D8-990A-000A95C4FBFA@mac.com> I think the example of Photoshop was a good one. I also think that Mac Office does a reasonable job. If I open a file that Word understands and can save to, it leaves it as-is ... I believe until I make some change that doesn't fit in the current file format. If I attempt to save the resulting document, it warns me about the incompatibility, and gives me a chance to choose a different format or use the existing (less rich) format. I think it'll count that Omni goes with something familiar to end users (like the examples set by common apps like Photoshop and Office), and still fits other requirements that you may want to fit in (like being CVS savvy). -- Jeremy Reichman From dvorak at omnigroup.com Fri Jan 30 16:46:33 2004 From: dvorak at omnigroup.com (Brian C.) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Pre-omnioutliner users continued In-Reply-To: <4D42EC78-51D5-11D8-A662-000A9578C366@umich.edu> Message-ID: Alan- The interface will be different, but much more capable and flexable styles, including the ability to apply a style to a subtree of a document, is one of the things we're planning to support in Outliner 3. Sincerely, Brian C. OmniOutliner Product Manager Omni Group On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, at 01:02 PM, Alan Pagliere wrote: > Hello. I recently purchased OmniOutliner. This is my first posting. > Pardon me if there is etiquette I have not yet absorbed. > > I would like to follow up on a posting by Dick Rucker back in > December. He wrote: > > ------------ > really like the way that MORE, through its Rules menu, allows me to > > (1) select a set of default formatting rules that apply to the entire > document and then > > (2) select any branch at any level of the outline and set whatever > exceptions to the default rules that I like for that branch. > > I've used such exceptions to provide distinctive captions for imbedded > graphics and to create the equivalent of sidebars in my document. > > That's the beauty of the Rules menu approach: it's simple to use, and > it > places no restrictions on how the user can deviate from the default > set of > rules. > ---------- > > I, too, was/am a great MORE fan. I used it until just a few months ago > (yes, Virginia, it still runs fine in Classic mode...). But to the > point. I would like to strongly second the "rules" approach, where any > outline row, with all its subrows, is a branch that can have any of a > large set of rules set for it and, by inheritance, all its subrows. A > kind of cascading style thingy long before css was a glint in anyone's > eye. > > This brings up another point that perhaps should be a separate posting > (see what I meant about etiquette?). Are there plans to allow for > different levels (or branches, if "rules" are ever implemented) to > have different line spacing, line breaks, etc.? Again, just look at > all the options for rules in the old MORE. > > Liking what I'm seeing so far, > Alan From lists at imagefoundation.com Fri Jan 30 17:23:34 2004 From: lists at imagefoundation.com (Tom Wiebe Lists) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Feature Request: Saved State In-Reply-To: <86E59C9C-4C41-11D8-87EE-000A95A51EE4@adelphia.net> References: <86E59C9C-4C41-11D8-87EE-000A95A51EE4@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <165F0000-538C-11D8-ABDC-000A959B3CA2@imagefoundation.com> Hi there, OO is likely the most used application on my computer aside from maybe mail.app and BBEdit. The numbers are likely pretty close though. Couldn't live without it. One thing that drives me bonkers though is how whenever I expand or collapse an outline, on closing it I'm required to save or discard the changes. It would seem to me that this is more of a change in the state of a document, as opposed to an actual change to the document. What would be really nice is if OO supported the concept of "state" like BBEdit and others do (BBEdit probably does this best). For those not familiar, if you change the active selection or text wrap or other similar "status" aspects to a BBEdit document, you then have the option to save these changes with the document. Only if you make an actual text change does the document require a full saving or discarding of changes on close. It would seem logical for OmniOutliner to function in a similar fashion. i.e. if I expand or collapse a row in my outline, I haven't changed any of the information in the document, so I shouldn't be forced to decide whether or not to save this change. This should be an option only. On the flip side, if I change the indentation of an item, or make a text change of any sort, this is an actual change in the document and worthy of _requiring_ a saving or discarding of those changes upon closing the document. Hopefully I've explained this properly, if it isn't clear, I can give it another shot. Oh, and Thanks again Omni Group, your apps rock. :) Tom Wiebe From formido at mac.com Sun Feb 1 17:35:33 2004 From: formido at mac.com (Michael Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Feature Request: Saved State In-Reply-To: <165F0000-538C-11D8-ABDC-000A959B3CA2@imagefoundation.com> References: <86E59C9C-4C41-11D8-87EE-000A95A51EE4@adelphia.net> <165F0000-538C-11D8-ABDC-000A959B3CA2@imagefoundation.com> Message-ID: <18109BF0-5520-11D8-815B-0030657075EA@mac.com> On Jan 30, 2004, at 5:23 PM, Tom Wiebe Lists wrote: > One thing that drives me bonkers though is how whenever I expand or > collapse an outline, on closing it I'm required to save or discard the > changes. It would seem to me that this is more of a change in the > state of a document, as opposed to an actual change to the document. > Yeah, this has always annoyed me too. I have to sit there for each document and decide if I made some significant change that I want to save. And there's also the possibility that I accidentally made some significant change, like pasting in a bunch of text or deleting a bunch of rows, that I don't want to keep. As you know, but others might not, BBEdit shows a hollow diamond in the toolbar and 'Window' menu when one changes something as simple as the insertion point, and a solid diamond if one changes something that matters. Mike From chris_e_wall at mac.com Tue Feb 3 08:34:24 2004 From: chris_e_wall at mac.com (Christopher Wall) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Applescript flashcard question Message-ID: I defer to the experts on this one... I know shell scripting well enough, but I have not had the time (or energy) to get into AppleScript. In any event, I have a need and I was wondering if anyone had tackled it. I am in school and use OmniOutliner for definitions - term in the column field, and the defintion in the notes. What I would like to do is use applescript to randomly select a line from the leftmost column, and ask for a definition. Here's where my idea could get complicated: For multiple guess, I was wondering if it would make sense to create a new outline, and then have a column with a listbox that has three or more definitions pulled at random out of the notes field of the original. Is this possible? For free form, I think it would be simple: create a dialog that asks for a definition and stores your answers into a new OO document, placing your answers in the note field. The only reason I am thinking of that route is that nobody is going to get the definition word for word. Self-grading would be necessary. So - has anyone done anything like this? I haven't seen such in the samples, but it seems like such a common need that it has to have been tried. Any suggestions or ideas would be great. From formido at mac.com Wed Feb 4 18:25:45 2004 From: formido at mac.com (Michael Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Applescript flashcard question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9A1E500E-5782-11D8-815B-0030657075EA@mac.com> On Feb 3, 2004, at 8:34 AM, Christopher Wall wrote: > I am in school and use OmniOutliner for definitions - term in the > column field, and the defintion in the notes. > > What I would like to do is use applescript to randomly select a line > from the leftmost column, and ask for a definition. Here's where my > idea could get complicated: > > For multiple guess, I was wondering if it would make sense to create a > new outline, and then have a column with a listbox that has three or > more definitions pulled at random out of the notes field of the > original. Is this possible? > For free form, I think it would be simple: create a dialog that asks > for a definition and stores your answers into a new OO document, > placing your answers in the note field. The only reason I am thinking > of that route is that nobody is going to get the definition word for > word. Self-grading would be necessary. I don't think this would be the best way to approach it. How about this: The AppleScript shows a dialog displaying the word and 3 or more definitions (including the right one). The dialog (flashcard) has a 'flip' button. The flip side of the card gives the correct answer, and you can choose from two buttons, 'Right' and 'Wrong'. After you choose, it goes on to the next card. It's all on the honor system; after all, you're only hurting yourself if you cheat. Something like the above has been my approach. If you're interested, I can probably whip up something along those lines. > So - has anyone done anything like this? I haven't seen such in the > samples, but it seems like such a common need that it has to have been > tried. > As a matter of fact, I have given the subject of simulated flashcard quizzing a great deal of thought, and given a lot of thought to integrating it with OmniOutliner. Mike From droo at odometer.org Thu Feb 5 13:14:43 2004 From: droo at odometer.org (Andrew Payne) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: exporting via applescript Message-ID: <51A6A707-5820-11D8-8089-000A95A725A4@odometer.org> hey all, is there a way to use omni's built in export to HTML via applescript? i tried doing a save as but i wasn't having any luck. cheers andrew From formido at mac.com Thu Feb 5 14:30:07 2004 From: formido at mac.com (Michael Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: exporting via applescript In-Reply-To: <51A6A707-5820-11D8-8089-000A95A725A4@odometer.org> References: <51A6A707-5820-11D8-8089-000A95A725A4@odometer.org> Message-ID: On Feb 5, 2004, at 1:14 PM, Andrew Payne wrote: > hey all, > > is there a way to use omni's built in export to HTML via applescript? > i tried doing a save as but i wasn't having any luck. > Yes, by a clever, but I think undocumented method. Whatever export method you want can be specified in the save command by appending the appropriate file extension. Unfortunately, this means that export formats which use the same extension can't be exported to, as far as I know. tell application "OmniOutliner" to tell front document set savePath to ((path to desktop as Unicode text) & ((get name)'s texts 1 thru -10) & ".html") save in file savePath open location "file://" & POSIX path of savePath end tell Mike From droo at odometer.org Thu Feb 5 14:42:45 2004 From: droo at odometer.org (Andrew Payne) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: exporting via applescript In-Reply-To: References: <51A6A707-5820-11D8-8089-000A95A725A4@odometer.org> Message-ID: <9DC04E78-582C-11D8-8089-000A95A725A4@odometer.org> OMG! that kicks ass! thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! i've been applescripting for years now and i'm no newbie, but i'm dazed and confused to how different programs use applescript and how confusing the "simple" syntax can be. thank god for perl. if you're into bbedit check out my bbedit applescripts -- > http://www.clankwerks.com/bbedit.shtml if you edit html, you'll love the copy/paste/cut tags scripts. it's the least i could do. cheers andrew On Feb 5, 2004, at 2:30 PM, Michael Terry wrote: > > tell application "OmniOutliner" to tell front document > set savePath to ((path to desktop as Unicode text) & ((get name)'s > texts 1 thru -10) & ".html") > save in file savePath > open location "file://" & POSIX path of savePath > end tell From formido at mac.com Thu Feb 5 15:46:51 2004 From: formido at mac.com (Michael Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: exporting via applescript In-Reply-To: <9DC04E78-582C-11D8-8089-000A95A725A4@odometer.org> References: <51A6A707-5820-11D8-8089-000A95A725A4@odometer.org> <9DC04E78-582C-11D8-8089-000A95A725A4@odometer.org> Message-ID: <91F6E22B-5835-11D8-815B-0030657075EA@mac.com> On Feb 5, 2004, at 2:42 PM, Andrew Payne wrote: > thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, > thank you! Heh. You're welcome. :) > i've been applescripting for years now and i'm no newbie, but i'm > dazed and confused to how different programs use applescript and how > confusing the "simple" syntax can be. thank god for perl. Yeah, after a certain point, knowledge of AS proper isn't the limiting factor in scripting, it's figuring out each application's "library". One might be an expert Finder scripter, but that doesn't help all that much trying to script Tex-Edit. AS itself isn't that involved a language. > if you're into bbedit check out my bbedit applescripts -- > > http://www.clankwerks.com/bbedit.shtml > > if you edit html, you'll love the copy/paste/cut tags scripts. Looks awesome, thanks. I love to find new repositories of scripts. Mike From droo at odometer.org Thu Feb 5 16:38:23 2004 From: droo at odometer.org (Andrew Payne) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: exporting via applescript In-Reply-To: <0D925EB4-5839-11D8-815B-0030657075EA@mac.com> References: <51A6A707-5820-11D8-8089-000A95A725A4@odometer.org> <9DC04E78-582C-11D8-8089-000A95A725A4@odometer.org> <91F6E22B-5835-11D8-815B-0030657075EA@mac.com> <0D925EB4-5839-11D8-815B-0030657075EA@mac.com> Message-ID: hey mike, thanks for the background on the 00 script data fork bug. i use apple's script editor v2.0 on panther 10.3.2 on a 2ghz g5. yeah so i just took one of omni's sample scripts, copied it in the finder, changed it's name, overwrote it in the script editor, and saved it and it worked fine. so if you've got a script that works or a sample script form 00 you can copy it in the finder and use that and it will work...at least it does for me. i think the key difference from my experience and curtis' is that i didn't do a save as, i think that's were it wreaks havoc on an otherwise okay script. -ap On Feb 5, 2004, at 4:11 PM, Michael Terry wrote: > > On Feb 5, 2004, at 4:02 PM, Andrew Payne wrote: > >> omni was driving me nuts after i altered the code you gave me and >> popped it in the script menu, then in the toolbar, it wouldn't >> work....AT ALL. nothing would happen. worked fine as an .app or from >> the script editor, but in omni it was dead. nothing! i was going >> crazy. so then i popped in some sample scripts from omni and they >> worked. copied that code over my script, mine still was dead. then >> copied mine over theirs, and it worked!?!?!? so i dupped their file, >> overwrote it, and changed the name, now it works fine. i checked the >> permissions and all is the same. so who knows. >> > > What Script Editor do you use? Sounds like you were bitten by the OO > bug where scripts saved in the data fork don't work in OO's script > menu. Script Editor 2 saves to the data fork, so that doesn't work. > The only thing I don't quite understand about your story is that you > say you copied your code into one of Omni's script "shells" and saved > it and it worked. That means that whatever editor you're using > respects the format of the script you're editing. I don't remember > that being the case with SE 2 and Smile only saves to the resource > fork; are you using Script Debugger? > > There was a actually a good thread on this on-list just a couple weeks > ago. Let me dig it out here: > >> On Jan 17, 2004, at 9:25 PM, Curtis Clifton wrote: >> >>> Hi! I'm working on some OO scripting for the first time since >>> installing Panther. I had some difficulty to get the new scripts to >>> work from OO's Script menu. I think it is because Script Editor >>> under Panther saves scripts to the data fork, while previously >>> scripts were saved in the resource fork. >>> >>> I had an old script, call it Script One, that just displays a simple >>> dialog box (contents of script attached). Script One runs fine from >>> the OO Script menu. >>> >>> I did a Save As.. from Script Editor and made a duplicate of the >>> script with a new name, call it Script Two. Script Two does not >>> work from the OO Script menu. >>> >>> I copied an old script using the Finder and named the copy Script >>> Three. I opened Script Three in Script Editor and changed the >>> content. Then I saved. Script Three runs fine from the OO Script >>> menu. >>> >>> Using the command 'ls -l' in Terminal, I discovered that Script One >>> and Script Three show a size of 0, because their contents are in the >>> resource fork. But Script Two, created by Panther's Script Editor, >>> shows a non-zero size, because its contents are in the data fork. >>> >>> After a bit Googling, I discovered the command 'osacompile', a >>> command-ilne utility for compiling AppleScripts. The utility is in >>> /usr/bin on Panther and, by default, outputs the compiled script in >>> the resource fork. After compiling the troublesome script with >>> osacompile, it runs without a hitch from OO's script menu. >>> >>> In summary: >>> >>> - OO does not handling data-fork only scripts from its Script menu. >>> - Panther's Script Editor creates data-fork only scripts by default. >>> - Using osacompile from the Terminal is a work-around. >>> >>> -- Curt >> >> >> That's a good idea. I'm surprised osacompile still saves to the >> resource fork. Another work-around is to save scripts using the free >> script editor from Satimage called Smile. OmniGroup is aware of this >> bug; surely it will be fixed in the next release. >> >> >> Mike >> > > > Mike > > > From chrisdaggimoh at mac.com Sat Feb 7 07:59:40 2004 From: chrisdaggimoh at mac.com (Chris Adams) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Different currency figures instead of dollars? Message-ID: Hi all, This does seems a little niggly thing, but hey, it's the little niggly things, added up that make us choose macs over PC's... Without hacking up the program, I'm not sure how to change the default currency symbol from dollars to british pounds, yen or euros, or any other currency symbols. Am I missing out something stupendously obvious here, or is omni planning to add it to a future version of outliner? Loving the program other than that :) Chris From bjterry at adelphia.net Sat Feb 7 12:44:05 2004 From: bjterry at adelphia.net (BJ Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Different currency figures instead of dollars? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5E71DE40-59AE-11D8-8718-000A95A51EE4@adelphia.net> I would've been willing to bet dollars to donuts that it followed the currency formatting set in your System Preferences, but after a brief test, it appears that it doesn't. Weird. BJ Terry On Feb 7, 2004, at 7:59 AM, Chris Adams wrote: > Hi all, > > This does seems a little niggly thing, but hey, it's the little niggly > things, added up that make us choose macs over PC's... > > Without hacking up the program, I'm not sure how to change the default > currency symbol from dollars to british pounds, yen or euros, or any > other currency symbols. > > Am I missing out something stupendously obvious here, or is omni > planning to add it to a future version of outliner? > > Loving the program other than that :) > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users > From jam at omnigroup.com Mon Feb 9 13:54:45 2004 From: jam at omnigroup.com (James Moore) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Different currency figures instead of dollars? In-Reply-To: <5E71DE40-59AE-11D8-8718-000A95A51EE4@adelphia.net> References: <5E71DE40-59AE-11D8-8718-000A95A51EE4@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <92F905C4-5B4A-11D8-9EAD-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> It's true that Outliner 2 does not follow the system's locale settings. We're addressing this in OO3 so your date formats and currency symbols are what you'd expect them to be. Are there any other ares that need localizing? -James Technical Support Engineer Omni Group On Feb 7, 2004, at 12:44 PM, BJ Terry wrote: > I would've been willing to bet dollars to donuts that it followed the > currency formatting set in your System Preferences, but after a brief > test, it appears that it doesn't. Weird. > > BJ Terry > > > On Feb 7, 2004, at 7:59 AM, Chris Adams wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> This does seems a little niggly thing, but hey, it's the little >> niggly things, added up that make us choose macs over PC's... >> >> Without hacking up the program, I'm not sure how to change the >> default currency symbol from dollars to british pounds, yen or euros, >> or any other currency symbols. >> >> Am I missing out something stupendously obvious here, or is omni >> planning to add it to a future version of outliner? >> >> Loving the program other than that :) >> >> Chris >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniOutliner-Users mailing list >> OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users >> > > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users From dvorak at omnigroup.com Tue Feb 10 10:06:30 2004 From: dvorak at omnigroup.com (Brian C.) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Different currency figures instead of dollars? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Chris- This is one of the things we're planning to address in version three. Right now, the app only supports US dollars... Sincerely, Brian C. Support Manager Omni Group On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 07:59 AM, Chris Adams wrote: > Hi all, > > This does seems a little niggly thing, but hey, it's the little niggly > things, added up that make us choose macs over PC's... > > Without hacking up the program, I'm not sure how to change the default > currency symbol from dollars to british pounds, yen or euros, or any > other currency symbols. > > Am I missing out something stupendously obvious here, or is omni > planning to add it to a future version of outliner? > > Loving the program other than that :) > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users From dvorak at omnigroup.com Tue Feb 10 10:08:19 2004 From: dvorak at omnigroup.com (Brian C.) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Feature Request: Saved State In-Reply-To: <18109BF0-5520-11D8-815B-0030657075EA@mac.com> Message-ID: <1B1B04E7-5BF4-11D8-9486-000393196FEA@omnigroup.com> Not currently on the list for three, folks, but it was one of the more painful cuts, I must say. I expect we'll address this at some point. If you have any other questions or suggestions, please don't hesitate to contact me. When replying, please include the quoted text of this message. We really appreciate your help! Sincerely, Brian C. Support Manager Omni Group On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 05:35 PM, Michael Terry wrote: > From: Michael Terry > Date: Sun Feb 1, 2004 5:35:33 PM US/Pacific > To: OmniOutliner > Subject: Re: Feature Request: Saved State > > > On Jan 30, 2004, at 5:23 PM, Tom Wiebe Lists wrote: > >> One thing that drives me bonkers though is how whenever I expand or >> collapse an outline, on closing it I'm required to save or discard >> the changes. It would seem to me that this is more of a change in the >> state of a document, as opposed to an actual change to the document. >> > > Yeah, this has always annoyed me too. I have to sit there for each > document and decide if I made some significant change that I want to > save. And there's also the possibility that I accidentally made some > significant change, like pasting in a bunch of text or deleting a > bunch of rows, that I don't want to keep. As you know, but others > might not, BBEdit shows a hollow diamond in the toolbar and 'Window' > menu when one changes something as simple as the insertion point, and > a solid diamond if one changes something that matters. > > > Mike From chrisdaggimoh at mac.com Tue Feb 10 15:42:43 2004 From: chrisdaggimoh at mac.com (Chris Adams) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: OmniOutliner-Users Digest, Vol 2, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <200402102001.i1AK1hon029164@slowbro.omnigroup.com> References: <200402102001.i1AK1hon029164@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: There are a few charming little quirks between our shared language across the pond (British english vs American English), but by and large I reckon they're all taken care of by the system/cocoa (UK spellings in spell check etc.). Other countries use different placings of comma's and decimial points (france has some pretty kooky usage), but I can't think of anything else. Chris On 10 Feb 2004, at 20:01, omnioutliner-users-request@omnigroup.com wrote: > Send OmniOutliner-Users mailing list submissions to > omnioutliner-users@omnigroup.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > omnioutliner-users-request@omnigroup.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > omnioutliner-users-owner@omnigroup.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of OmniOutliner-Users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Different currency figures instead of dollars? (James Moore) > 2. Re: Different currency figures instead of dollars? (Brian C.) > 3. Re: Feature Request: Saved State (Brian C.) > It's true that Outliner 2 does not follow the system's locale settings. > We're addressing this in OO3 so your date formats and currency symbols > are what you'd expect them to be. Are there any other ares that need > localizing? > > -James > > Technical Support Engineer > Omni Group > From tingham at coalmarch.com Fri Feb 13 11:15:22 2004 From: tingham at coalmarch.com (Thomas Ingham) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Subjective Percentages? Message-ID: Oy, I'm trying to get an outliner document work in a way that makes sense for me, but it seems like that's not possible with the current system. I have a series of items with sub-items, and a percentage numeric in column 2. What I want to have happen is, when all the items within a root item are 100%, the root item would be set to 100%. If two items inside the root item are 50% and 100%, I want the root item to read 75%. Currently, it would read 150% ( which is kind of funny, but that's another story ) Does this make sense? And is it in any way possible, or planned for OO? Thanks, -Thomas From jam at omnigroup.com Fri Feb 13 13:02:15 2004 From: jam at omnigroup.com (James Moore) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Subjective Percentages? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thomas the only summary option that's possible in OO2 is "sum". The format of the numbers doesn't affect this. I believe in your case you would want an average function to summarize your column values. I believe that we are adding average to the list of summary types for Outliner 3. -James Technical Support Engineer Omni Group On Feb 13, 2004, at 11:15 AM, Thomas Ingham wrote: > Oy, > > I'm trying to get an outliner document work in a way that makes sense > for me, but it seems like that's not possible with the current system. > I have a series of items with sub-items, and a percentage numeric in > column 2. What I want to have happen is, when all the items within a > root item are 100%, the root item would be set to 100%. If two items > inside the root item are 50% and 100%, I want the root item to read > 75%. Currently, it would read 150% ( which is kind of funny, but > that's another story ) > Does this make sense? And is it in any way possible, or planned for > OO? > > Thanks, > > -Thomas > > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users From tingham at coalmarch.com Fri Feb 13 14:53:24 2004 From: tingham at coalmarch.com (Thomas Ingham) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Subjective Percentages? In-Reply-To: References: <19588083-5E69-11D8-A15C-000393C33F4E@coalmarch.com> Message-ID: <6E19108A-5E77-11D8-A15C-000393C33F4E@coalmarch.com> On Feb 13, 2004, at 4:52 PM, James Moore wrote: > > On Feb 13, 2004, at 1:10 PM, Thomas Ingham wrote: >> Wouldn't it be smarter to make an applescript aware column, and let >> folks design their own functionality? I'm not even sure if that is >> possible, but it would make a lot more sense. >> > > I believe that ultimately we want to provide some kind of > extensibility like you describe. I'm not sure it will be applescript > though. > This would be a great value-added asset to an already great application. >> In any event, could you find out for sure if average will be in the >> next version, otherwise I might need to find a new solution to my >> problem now, instead of waiting a "few weeks" for the right solution, >> which would be OO ( of course ) > I asked and we're going to add min,max, and avg at a minimum. > So June is a ways off, which is too bad really. I'm faced with a difficult decision. Do I keep using OO without percentages the way that I need them, or should I just write my own solution in php or whatever and make due. *sigh* Well, thanks anyhow for clearing it up. -thomas From jmck at mac.com Fri Feb 13 17:05:58 2004 From: jmck at mac.com (jmck@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Subjective Percentages? In-Reply-To: <6E19108A-5E77-11D8-A15C-000393C33F4E@coalmarch.com> Message-ID: That sounds great. I generally feel that I want OmniOutliner to become the BBEdit for things you would otherwise grudgingly use Excel for. This is a big step towards that. On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 05:53 PM, Thomas Ingham quoted James Moore as saying: >> I asked and we're going to add min,max, and avg at a minimum. From formido at mac.com Mon Feb 16 19:03:32 2004 From: formido at mac.com (Michael Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Quick Access to Your Favorite OO Docs Message-ID: Note: Although I will be making references to such things as Script Menu, and such topics may make your eyes glaze over, please don't give up on this message yet! OK, now: Hi, Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could have a customizable list of your favorite OO documents that you could access right from OO and you didn't have to pay for and/or install any third-party software to make it happen? Well, let me welcome you to this brave new world. If you run Panther, it's just a couple clicks away. Fairly recently, Apple upgraded the system Script Menu which comes bundled with OS X. It's not installed by default, but you can turn it on by running the installer located in: /Applications/AppleScript/ Now, some of you have probably already drunk the Script Menu kool-aid, and that's great. But for others, you may not realize that the new Script Menu isn't your daddy's Oldsmobile. You see, it's not just for scripts anymore--it can launch documents too. Combined with another feature of Script Menu, namely context-sensitive menu items, we have a recipe for success![1] Simply create a folder here: /Users/formido/Library/Scripts/Applications/OmniOutliner/ and any items placed inside will show up under the scroll in the main menubar, whenever OO is the frontmost application. This is nice for me, and other people who aren't me but think like me, because we don't put our AppleScripts there anyway. Now we don't have to miss out on the fun. And this is nice for everyone else, because now they have a customizable, contextual document launcher, a sort of favorites menu for OO. It's a win/win situation people, Mike [1] Sorry, I get paid by the cliche. From jam at omnigroup.com Tue Feb 17 14:37:40 2004 From: jam at omnigroup.com (James Moore) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Quick Access to Your Favorite OO Docs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Michael that's really handy. It actually addresses a feature request that some folks have submitted. -James Technical Support Engineer Omni Group On Feb 16, 2004, at 7:03 PM, Michael Terry wrote: > Note: Although I will be making references to such things as Script > Menu, and such topics may make your eyes glaze over, please don't give > up on this message yet! > > OK, now: > > Hi, > > Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could have a customizable list of your > favorite OO documents that you could access right from OO and you > didn't have to pay for and/or install any third-party software to make > it happen? > > Well, let me welcome you to this brave new world. If you run Panther, > it's just a couple clicks away. > > Fairly recently, Apple upgraded the system Script Menu which comes > bundled with OS X. It's not installed by default, but you can turn it > on by running the installer located in: > > /Applications/AppleScript/ > > Now, some of you have probably already drunk the Script Menu kool-aid, > and that's great. But for others, you may not realize that the new > Script Menu isn't your daddy's Oldsmobile. You see, it's not just for > scripts anymore--it can launch documents too. > > Combined with another feature of Script Menu, namely context-sensitive > menu items, we have a recipe for success![1] Simply create a folder > here: > > /Users/formido/Library/Scripts/Applications/OmniOutliner/ > > and any items placed inside will show up under the scroll in the main > menubar, whenever OO is the frontmost application. > > This is nice for me, and other people who aren't me but think like me, > because we don't put our AppleScripts there anyway. Now we don't have > to miss out on the fun. > > And this is nice for everyone else, because now they have a > customizable, contextual document launcher, a sort of favorites menu > for OO. > > > It's a win/win situation people, > Mike > > > [1] Sorry, I get paid by the cliche. > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users From tingham at coalmarch.com Tue Feb 17 15:03:23 2004 From: tingham at coalmarch.com (Thomas Ingham) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Subjective Percentages? Message-ID: <7CA4B9EF-619D-11D8-901F-000393C33F4E@coalmarch.com> Begin forwarded message: > From: Thomas Ingham > Date: February 13, 2004 5:53:24 PM EST > To: omnioutliner-users@omnigroup.com > Subject: Re: Subjective Percentages? > > > On Feb 13, 2004, at 4:52 PM, James Moore wrote: > .... > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users Suddenly, epiphany! What it is that I really want, is nearly all there already. I realized this late last night as I was checking off a few sub-items in a particularly large task. All I want to do is when I mark an item checked that is a subject of a topic, I want to somehow represent that as a value in the parent item. All I'd need to do is take ( 100 / parent.(total)sub-tasks ) * ( parent.sub-tasks( marked complete ) ). This could be a numeric shown to the left of a checkbox of an item which has children. I'm not even sure that right now, I'd need for middle-tier values to go all the way up, since most of my stuff is 3 levels deep max. I think that this would be just as helpful as having a custom column, but much more useful than a tri-state checkbox. -Thomas From jam at omnigroup.com Tue Feb 17 15:53:24 2004 From: jam at omnigroup.com (James Moore) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Subjective Percentages? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7911205D-61A4-11D8-B271-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> Right, we struggle trying to categorize Outliner. It seems like with just a few more features it could be a decent word processor, a bare-bones spreadsheet, and a simple desktop database. Maybe we should rename it to OmniWorks. I already use it like a simple database for project management but I weep when when I can't filter based on a column value. I want to use it to write documentation but I can't yet export to something more "doc"-like so I weep some more. I haven't yet conceived of a way to get to DocBook that doesn't rely on overly-contrived outline setups. Admittedly I want to view Outliner as the hammer that can pound any nail no matter its shape or size. Outliner 3 is going to be a step forward and is laying the groundwork for some pretty exciting features that will coming "soon". -James Technical Support Engineer Omni Group On Feb 13, 2004, at 5:05 PM, jmck@mac.com wrote: > That sounds great. > > I generally feel that I want OmniOutliner to become the BBEdit for > things you would otherwise grudgingly use Excel for. > > This is a big step towards that. > > On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 05:53 PM, Thomas Ingham quoted James > Moore as saying: > >>> I asked and we're going to add min,max, and avg at a minimum. > > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users From steve at redmonk.net Wed Feb 18 10:00:07 2004 From: steve at redmonk.net (Steve Ivy) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: Subjective Percentages? In-Reply-To: <7911205D-61A4-11D8-B271-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> References: <7911205D-61A4-11D8-B271-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <4958DA14-623C-11D8-8AA3-000A95DF16C2@redmonk.net> Don't forget, with some creative management of tabs and spaces, a great code editor. ;) --Steve On Feb 17, 2004, at 4:53 PM, James Moore wrote: > Right, we struggle trying to categorize Outliner. It seems like with > just a few more features it could be a decent word processor, a > bare-bones spreadsheet, and a simple desktop database. From jam at omnigroup.com Wed Feb 18 10:19:18 2004 From: jam at omnigroup.com (James Moore) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: What is Outliner? [was Re: Subjective Percentages?] Message-ID: I had that same thought over the weekend but ended up playing with jEdit and loving it. It reminds me a alot of emacs's extensibility the shortcut-key-for-every-function approach to editing. Its also got some really good plugins and a hojillion editing modes like emacs. -James Technical Support Engineer Omni Group On Feb 18, 2004, at 10:00 AM, Steve Ivy wrote: > Don't forget, with some creative management of tabs and spaces, a > great code editor. ;) > > --Steve > > On Feb 17, 2004, at 4:53 PM, James Moore wrote: > >> Right, we struggle trying to categorize Outliner. It seems like with >> just a few more features it could be a decent word processor, a >> bare-bones spreadsheet, and a simple desktop database. > > _______________________________________________ > OmniOutliner-Users mailing list > OmniOutliner-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnioutliner-users From cheshirekat at pobox.com Fri Feb 20 09:25:54 2004 From: cheshirekat at pobox.com (cheshirekat) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: OO Palm users Message-ID: <20040220172554.11098@sasl.smtp.pobox.com> Howdy all! (Sorry, this is a bit long.) I believe it wasn't that long ago that the topic of using OO with Palms was discussed. I think it mainly referred to the "Getting Things Done" tool. (I didn't save all the messages from the list, but in looking back on those I did save of this topic, that was my impression.) Anyhow. I just got my very first PDA (Palm Zire 21) a couple of days ago, which prompted me to write to the OO list. I need help with my lists. I need to be able to synch back and forth from my Palm to my Mac (Ti 867 OS X 10.2.8). I can't stand that all my lists are ending up as notes/memos. I'm really making an effort to be more organized as I get older because I'm already forgetting a lot - I once was very happy with my excellent memorization skills. So, there must be other Palm/Mac users who have found ways to synch lists and outlines with some ease. I've been looking through the Palm software store all week in anticipation and even more so after my Palm arrived. I'm hoping others will point me in the direction of tips, scripts, utilities and your personal experiences. Also, while this isn't a deal breaker, I would also like something that will make it simple to beam to the hubby (we both just got our matching Palms simultaneously) that he can use. I don't mind exporting to memos and beaming the memos to him since he isn't near as organized as I am and is so tickled with his Palm that he doesn't want to use his PC (XP) much at all. (Biting tongue to refrain from anti-PC comment.) Since I've only just recently gotten him to realize that modern technology can be fun and helpful, I was surprised that he not only didn't scream and run away when I gave him his new Palm, but is getting quite attached to it. Truthfully, I'm not quite as thrilled about my Palm as he is - I'd prefer more RAM, use of expansion cards, etc., but opted to get this entry level PDA so we'd both be on the same page to answer his questions, so I'm sure I'll upgrade within a year. If nothing else more RAM in a PDA will allow me to use my Filemaker Pro databases. Thanks! -- Sometimes even to live is an act of courage. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca, writer and philosopher * 867 PowerBook G4 * OS X 10.2.6 * 768 MB Ram * From jam at omnigroup.com Fri Feb 20 14:52:29 2004 From: jam at omnigroup.com (James Moore) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:30:17 2005 Subject: OO Palm users In-Reply-To: <20040220172554.11098@sasl.smtp.pobox.com> References: <20040220172554.11098@sasl.smtp.pobox.com> Message-ID: <75F8B208-63F7-11D8-9E4F-000A27AFD068@omnigroup.com> Palm support is something that we're working on. I can't say yet what form its going to take but our hope is to provide a way to get outline data onto the palm and make it usable. Its not known yet what affect Palm's decision to drop Mac support will have on our efforts. -James Technical Support Engineer Omni Group On Feb 20, 2004, at 9:25 AM, cheshirekat wrote: > Howdy all! (Sorry, this is a bit long.) > > I believe it wasn't that long ago that the topic of using OO with Palms > was discussed. I think it mainly referred to the "Getting Things Done" > tool. (I didn't save all the messages from the list, but in looking > back > on those I did save of this topic, that was my impression.) > > Anyhow. I just got my very first PDA (Palm Zire 21) a couple of days > ago, > which prompted me to write to the OO list. I need help with my lists. I > need to be able to synch back and forth from my Palm to my Mac (Ti 867 > OS > X 10.2.8). I can't stand that all my lists are ending up as > notes/memos. > I'm really making an effort to be more organized as I get older because > I'm already forgetting a lot - I once was very happy with my excellent > memorization skills. So, there must be other Palm/Mac users who have > found ways to synch lists and outlines with some ease. I've been > looking > through the Palm software store all week in anticipation and even more > so > after my Palm arrived. I'm hoping others will point me in the direction > of tips, scripts, utilities and your personal experiences. > > Also, while this isn't a deal breaker, I would also like something that > will make it simple to beam to the hubby (we both just got our matching > Palms simultaneously) that he can use. I don't mind exporting to memos > and beaming the memos to him since he isn't near as organized as I am > and > is so tickled with his Palm that he doesn't want to use his PC (XP) > much > at all. (Biting tongue to refrain from anti-PC comment.) Since I've > only > just recently gotten him to realize that modern technology can