From omni_groupie at unithom.com Wed Jan 27 12:20:07 2010 From: omni_groupie at unithom.com (Thom Brooks) Date: Wed Jan 27 12:25:24 2010 Subject: iPad mobile version of OmniGraffle? Message-ID: You knew this question would come up... This is one of my top wishes for the iPad: OmniGraffle Mobile Pro for iPad. I sit on the couch, do a design, and send it off as a PDF for approval from the client. If it's really nitty-gritty, I move it over to my MBP and put it on the big screen and mouse around with it. The answer I'm hoping beyond hope for here is, "Available when iPad ships." No pressure :) Thank you, Thom Brooks From nic at mac.com Wed Jan 27 12:36:11 2010 From: nic at mac.com (Nic Olinsky) Date: Wed Jan 27 12:36:26 2010 Subject: iPad mobile version of OmniGraffle? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5B398801-DE40-46BF-B714-C6A5E225CBF4@mac.com> I would buy it! On Jan 27, 2010, at 12:20 PM, Thom Brooks wrote: > You knew this question would come up... > > This is one of my top wishes for the iPad: OmniGraffle Mobile Pro for iPad. > > I sit on the couch, do a design, and send it off as a PDF for approval from the client. If it's really nitty-gritty, I move it over to my MBP and put it on the big screen and mouse around with it. > > The answer I'm hoping beyond hope for here is, "Available when iPad ships." > > No pressure :) > > Thank you, > > > Thom Brooks > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From mattnl at gmail.com Wed Jan 27 12:37:45 2010 From: mattnl at gmail.com (Matthew Nish-Lapidus) Date: Wed Jan 27 12:37:47 2010 Subject: iPad mobile version of OmniGraffle? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5b242f431001271237j107843b4oe5f3abbecf4ba91a@mail.gmail.com> I would buy that in a second. On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Thom Brooks wrote: > You knew this question would come up... > > This is one of my top wishes for the iPad: OmniGraffle Mobile Pro for iPad. > > I sit on the couch, do a design, and send it off as a PDF for approval from > the client. If it's really nitty-gritty, I move it over to my MBP and put it > on the big screen and mouse around with it. > > The answer I'm hoping beyond hope for here is, "Available when iPad ships." > > No pressure ?:) > > Thank you, > > > Thom Brooks > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > -- Matt Nish-Lapidus -- personal: mattnl@gmail.com twitter: emenel From bruce at sidlinger.com Wed Jan 27 12:42:39 2010 From: bruce at sidlinger.com (Bruce D. Sidlinger) Date: Wed Jan 27 12:42:48 2010 Subject: iPad mobile version of OmniGraffle? In-Reply-To: <5b242f431001271237j107843b4oe5f3abbecf4ba91a@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b242f431001271237j107843b4oe5f3abbecf4ba91a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <59E551AB-579B-4D80-9D19-32472853A081@sidlinger.com> I'd like to 3rd, 4th & 5th that motion! -Bruce On Jan 27, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Matthew Nish-Lapidus wrote: > I would buy that in a second. > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Thom Brooks > wrote: >> You knew this question would come up... >> >> This is one of my top wishes for the iPad: OmniGraffle Mobile Pro >> for iPad. >> >> I sit on the couch, do a design, and send it off as a PDF for >> approval from >> the client. If it's really nitty-gritty, I move it over to my MBP >> and put it >> on the big screen and mouse around with it. >> >> The answer I'm hoping beyond hope for here is, "Available when iPad >> ships." >> >> No pressure :) >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> Thom Brooks >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users >> > > > > -- > Matt Nish-Lapidus > -- > personal: mattnl@gmail.com > twitter: emenel > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From stella at stellarvisions.com Wed Jan 27 12:59:37 2010 From: stella at stellarvisions.com (Stella Gassaway) Date: Wed Jan 27 12:59:43 2010 Subject: iPad mobile version of OmniGraffle? Message-ID: <265AE6E0-20B5-4CF8-820E-77E7275A7340@stellarvisions.com> us too. s --- Stella Gassaway principal stella@stellarvisions.com STELLARViSIONs : communication architects 215. 545. 7531 We design culture-driven tools? that shape how information is organized, displayed, shared, and experienced to reflect core values. [web] http://www.stellarvisions.com [twitter] http://www.twitter.com/stellarvisions From chuckbo at hinkles.us Wed Jan 27 13:00:20 2010 From: chuckbo at hinkles.us (Chuck Hinkle) Date: Wed Jan 27 13:00:25 2010 Subject: iPad mobile version of OmniGraffle? In-Reply-To: <59E551AB-579B-4D80-9D19-32472853A081@sidlinger.com> References: <5b242f431001271237j107843b4oe5f3abbecf4ba91a@mail.gmail.com> <59E551AB-579B-4D80-9D19-32472853A081@sidlinger.com> Message-ID: <481C652E-C614-46AF-AF90-F2A3FB3DE47F@hinkles.us> ... and didn't Mr. Jobs say how easy it is to build applications in just two weeks? ;) On Jan 27, 2010, at 2:42 PM, Bruce D. Sidlinger wrote: > I'd like to 3rd, 4th & 5th that motion! > > -Bruce > > > On Jan 27, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Matthew Nish-Lapidus wrote: > >> I would buy that in a second. >> >> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Thom Brooks wrote: >>> You knew this question would come up... >>> >>> This is one of my top wishes for the iPad: OmniGraffle Mobile Pro for iPad. >>> >>> I sit on the couch, do a design, and send it off as a PDF for approval from >>> the client. If it's really nitty-gritty, I move it over to my MBP and put it >>> on the big screen and mouse around with it. >>> >>> The answer I'm hoping beyond hope for here is, "Available when iPad ships." >>> >>> No pressure :) >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> >>> Thom Brooks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >>> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Matt Nish-Lapidus >> -- >> personal: mattnl@gmail.com >> twitter: emenel >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From zaxaz at mac.com Wed Jan 27 13:05:02 2010 From: zaxaz at mac.com (Scott) Date: Wed Jan 27 13:05:06 2010 Subject: iPad mobile version of OmniGraffle? In-Reply-To: <481C652E-C614-46AF-AF90-F2A3FB3DE47F@hinkles.us> References: <5b242f431001271237j107843b4oe5f3abbecf4ba91a@mail.gmail.com> <59E551AB-579B-4D80-9D19-32472853A081@sidlinger.com> <481C652E-C614-46AF-AF90-F2A3FB3DE47F@hinkles.us> Message-ID: <5E0E498C-E905-42AA-9BF3-00335B88A702@mac.com> Omnigraffle is one of my favorite tools. A iPad version would be quite a welcome compliment to my MBP version!! Scott On Jan 27, 2010, at 2:00 PM, Chuck Hinkle wrote: > > ... and didn't Mr. Jobs say how easy it is to build applications in just two weeks? ;) > > > > > On Jan 27, 2010, at 2:42 PM, Bruce D. Sidlinger wrote: > >> I'd like to 3rd, 4th & 5th that motion! >> >> -Bruce >> >> >> On Jan 27, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Matthew Nish-Lapidus wrote: >> >>> I would buy that in a second. >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Thom Brooks wrote: >>>> You knew this question would come up... >>>> >>>> This is one of my top wishes for the iPad: OmniGraffle Mobile Pro for iPad. >>>> >>>> I sit on the couch, do a design, and send it off as a PDF for approval from >>>> the client. If it's really nitty-gritty, I move it over to my MBP and put it >>>> on the big screen and mouse around with it. >>>> >>>> The answer I'm hoping beyond hope for here is, "Available when iPad ships." >>>> >>>> No pressure :) >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> >>>> Thom Brooks >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >>>> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >>>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Matt Nish-Lapidus >>> -- >>> personal: mattnl@gmail.com >>> twitter: emenel >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >>> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From michael at hesta.com Wed Jan 27 12:50:46 2010 From: michael at hesta.com (Michael Styles Verruto) Date: Wed Jan 27 13:05:35 2010 Subject: iPad mobile version of OmniGraffle? In-Reply-To: <5b242f431001271237j107843b4oe5f3abbecf4ba91a@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b242f431001271237j107843b4oe5f3abbecf4ba91a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I already pre-ordered it - came with an OmniGraffle Tshirt hahahaha. And posted it into OmniFocus to remind me to look for it. On Jan 27, 2010, at 3:37 PM, Matthew Nish-Lapidus wrote: > I would buy that in a second. > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Thom Brooks > wrote: >> You knew this question would come up... >> >> This is one of my top wishes for the iPad: OmniGraffle Mobile Pro >> for iPad. >> >> I sit on the couch, do a design, and send it off as a PDF for >> approval from >> the client. If it's really nitty-gritty, I move it over to my MBP >> and put it >> on the big screen and mouse around with it. >> >> The answer I'm hoping beyond hope for here is, "Available when iPad >> ships." >> >> No pressure :) >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> Thom Brooks >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users >> > > > > -- > Matt Nish-Lapidus > -- > personal: mattnl@gmail.com > twitter: emenel > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From john at oram.com Wed Jan 27 23:25:10 2010 From: john at oram.com (John Oram) Date: Wed Jan 27 23:25:15 2010 Subject: iPad mobile version of OmniGraffle? In-Reply-To: References: <5b242f431001271237j107843b4oe5f3abbecf4ba91a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I've been bugging Joel about this for, oh, 4 years now. No pressure... All you need to do is port the Newton sketch app to the iPad -- how hard can *that* be? :) -j On 2010-01-27, at 12:50 PM, Michael Styles Verruto wrote: > I already pre-ordered it - came with an OmniGraffle Tshirt hahahaha. And posted it into OmniFocus to remind me to look for it. > > On Jan 27, 2010, at 3:37 PM, Matthew Nish-Lapidus wrote: > >> I would buy that in a second. >> >> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Thom Brooks wrote: >>> You knew this question would come up... >>> >>> This is one of my top wishes for the iPad: OmniGraffle Mobile Pro for iPad. >>> >>> I sit on the couch, do a design, and send it off as a PDF for approval from >>> the client. If it's really nitty-gritty, I move it over to my MBP and put it >>> on the big screen and mouse around with it. >>> >>> The answer I'm hoping beyond hope for here is, "Available when iPad ships." >>> >>> No pressure :) >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> >>> Thom Brooks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >>> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Matt Nish-Lapidus >> -- >> personal: mattnl@gmail.com >> twitter: emenel >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > From merbjedi at gmail.com Thu Jan 28 12:03:20 2010 From: merbjedi at gmail.com (Jacques Crocker) Date: Thu Jan 28 12:03:44 2010 Subject: iPad mobile version of OmniGraffle? In-Reply-To: <20100128200006.B7C6F20AC078@forums.omnigroup.com> References: <20100128200006.B7C6F20AC078@forums.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <92281991-22B6-4885-B3DC-D7D04066610A@gmail.com> That'd be the killer app for the iPad. Count me in On Jan 28, 2010, at 12:00 PM, omnigraffle-users-request@omnigroup.com wrote: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:20:07 -0600 (CST) > From: Thom Brooks > Subject: iPad mobile version of OmniGraffle? > To: Omnigraffle Support > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII > > You knew this question would come up... > > This is one of my top wishes for the iPad: OmniGraffle Mobile Pro for iPad. > > I sit on the couch, do a design, and send it off as a PDF for approval from > the client. If it's really nitty-gritty, I move it over to my MBP and put it > on the big screen and mouse around with it. > > The answer I'm hoping beyond hope for here is, "Available when iPad ships." > > No pressure :) > > Thank you, > > > Thom Brooks From aschechterman at gmail.com Thu Jan 28 12:15:28 2010 From: aschechterman at gmail.com (Andrew Schechterman) Date: Thu Jan 28 12:15:54 2010 Subject: iPad mobile version of OmniGraffle? Message-ID: Holy Toledo. Me too! Indeed, how about a Omni-branded iPad . . . move over Steve! Andrew Schechterman PhD aschechterman@gmail.com www.Linkedin.com/in/andrewschechterman Denver, Colorado, US 1 303 886 2440 From jpage at omnigroup.com Thu Jan 28 12:18:42 2010 From: jpage at omnigroup.com (Joel Page) Date: Thu Jan 28 12:18:44 2010 Subject: iPad mobile version of OmniGraffle? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0C64EB48-5A6E-4A04-B7A0-ADB736EAD3DD@omnigroup.com> Just to keep the mailing list in the loop: http://twitter.com/kcase/status/8300211476 "We're also looking at creating iPad adaptations of several of our other productivity apps, such as OmniGraffle." Cheers, Joel Page Product Manager, OmniGraffle The Omni Group On Jan 27, 2010, at 12:20 PM, Thom Brooks wrote: > You knew this question would come up... > > This is one of my top wishes for the iPad: OmniGraffle Mobile Pro for iPad. > > I sit on the couch, do a design, and send it off as a PDF for approval from the client. If it's really nitty-gritty, I move it over to my MBP and put it on the big screen and mouse around with it. > > The answer I'm hoping beyond hope for here is, "Available when iPad ships." > > No pressure :) > > Thank you, > > > Thom Brooks > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From tburton at brahea.com Sat Jan 30 18:19:54 2010 From: tburton at brahea.com (Tom Burton) Date: Sat Jan 30 18:19:59 2010 Subject: iPad mobile version of OmniGraffle? In-Reply-To: <20100129200006.E9EC520BBC4C@forums.omnigroup.com> References: <20100129200006.E9EC520BBC4C@forums.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: Without OmniGraffle, iPad doesn't work for me. With it, and a few other things (possibly including OmniOutliner). I can justify iPad to replace my aging MacBook Pro to supplement my Mac Pro. At that point, if OmniWeb is still not ported to the iPad, I'll have to dump it in favor of a browser that is. From niko at alum.mit.edu Sun Jan 31 00:38:17 2010 From: niko at alum.mit.edu (Niko Matsakis) Date: Sun Jan 31 00:38:26 2010 Subject: Extracting QuickLook Preview from a .graffle file Message-ID: I am writing a tool and would like to extract the Quicklook Preview (not thumbnail) from .graffle files. Since there is no public interface to extract QL Previews in general (only to run the QLPreviewPanel), I was thinking of hacking something up to extract the required image from the .graffle file directly. I see that .graffle files are gzipped plist files and that there is a key QuickLookPreview which seems to contain base64 data or something like that (at least for Omnigraffle 5 files). Can someone give me a hint of how to extract this data? It is an NSCoded version of an NSImage or something like that? thanks, Niko From wiml at omnigroup.com Mon Feb 1 10:26:12 2010 From: wiml at omnigroup.com (Wim Lewis) Date: Mon Feb 1 10:26:15 2010 Subject: Extracting QuickLook Preview from a .graffle file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 31, 2010, at 12:38 AM, Niko Matsakis wrote: > I am writing a tool and would like to extract the Quicklook Preview (not thumbnail) from .graffle files. Since there is no public interface to extract QL Previews in general (only to run the QLPreviewPanel), I was thinking of hacking something up to extract the required image from the .graffle file directly. I see that .graffle files are gzipped plist files and that there is a key QuickLookPreview which seems to contain base64 data or something like that (at least for Omnigraffle 5 files). > > Can someone give me a hint of how to extract this data? It is an NSCoded version of an NSImage or something like that? Yup, it's simply a element holding a PDF document. (For bundle-type Graffle documents, the quicklook preview image is stored in the file QuickLook/Preview.pdf --- same bytes, different place.) Some random notes: - The plist can be gzipped, bzipped, or not compressed at all (at the user's option). In either compressed case, the compression is compatible with the corresponding command-line tool. - The user can turn off the quicklook preview to save space, so don't absolutely rely on it being there. - The thumbnail is done similarly, except it's a TIFF image. - We don't want to discourage people from doing interesting things with Graffle files, but we reserve the right to change our file format at any time without notice yadda yadda yadda. :) Wim Lewis / wiml@omnigroup.com From john at oram.com Sun Feb 7 23:34:50 2010 From: john at oram.com (John Oram) Date: Sun Feb 7 23:34:54 2010 Subject: multiple layer -> multiple page PDF export Message-ID: <2C98A298-3D0A-456F-88D1-6C4950207789@oram.com> Hi- I have a OG doc with 5 layers. I'd like to export each layer as its own page in a single PDF (i.e. a 5 page PDF). I'm comparing five maps of an area covering about 9 city blocks spanning a period of 150 years. With each PDF page a specific year, one could flip between pages and the content of each year would be aligned, making it easy to compare and contrast changes. Is this possible? I believe canvases export this way, but I don't believe layers do. Sorry if I'm missing something obvious. On a slightly different note, dynamic layer manipulation in iPadGraffle would be ridiculously cool. Say you had layer control bar on the bottom of the iPad window. Tap a layer icon to show/hide, tap-slide to change opacity. Oh, man, I can't wait -- this is like Christmas. -John From wiml at omnigroup.com Mon Feb 8 12:41:32 2010 From: wiml at omnigroup.com (Wim Lewis) Date: Mon Feb 8 12:41:36 2010 Subject: multiple layer -> multiple page PDF export In-Reply-To: <2C98A298-3D0A-456F-88D1-6C4950207789@oram.com> References: <2C98A298-3D0A-456F-88D1-6C4950207789@oram.com> Message-ID: On Feb 7, 2010, at 11:34 PM, John Oram wrote: > Is this possible? I believe canvases export this way, but I don't believe layers do. Sorry if I'm missing something obvious. I think you're right, there isn't a builtin way to export each layer to a separate PDF page. There are some workarounds --- you could write an applescript to copy each layer to a new canvas, and export all those; you could export to SVG which (IIRC) puts each layer in its own group, and fiddle with them in an SVG editor... none of these are really ideal though. From john at oram.com Mon Feb 8 13:22:53 2010 From: john at oram.com (John Oram) Date: Mon Feb 8 13:22:58 2010 Subject: multiple layer -> multiple page PDF export In-Reply-To: References: <2C98A298-3D0A-456F-88D1-6C4950207789@oram.com> Message-ID: Already been down that road. I had actually forgotten that back in 2004-2005 I built an Applescript that toggled the visibility of sets of one or more layers, and exported the selections to Keynote which then exported it to a multi-page PDF. Unfortunately that was impossible to maintain. Anyway, if it's not already a feature request I'd very much like it to be. In fact, I'd even take it on the iPad version first! -j On 2010-02-08, at 12:41 PM, Wim Lewis wrote: > > On Feb 7, 2010, at 11:34 PM, John Oram wrote: >> Is this possible? I believe canvases export this way, but I don't believe layers do. Sorry if I'm missing something obvious. > > I think you're right, there isn't a builtin way to export each layer to a separate PDF page. > > There are some workarounds --- you could write an applescript to copy each layer to a new canvas, and export all those; you could export to SVG which (IIRC) puts each layer in its own group, and fiddle with them in an SVG editor... none of these are really ideal though. > > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > From alan.schmitt at polytechnique.org Tue Feb 9 08:08:38 2010 From: alan.schmitt at polytechnique.org (Alan Schmitt) Date: Tue Feb 9 08:18:37 2010 Subject: filling some space delimited by lines Message-ID: Hello, I'm helping a friend do some diagrams, and I was wondering if something was possible. Assume that you have some frontier delimited by some shapes on lines, as in the following figure: -------------- next part -------------- I would like to fill the middle space in some color. I'm using line so that I can move the circles or the triangle around and still keep the connections. Do you have a suggestion as how I may do this? Thanks, Alan From pim at lingewoud.nl Wed Feb 10 07:57:19 2010 From: pim at lingewoud.nl (Pim Snel) Date: Wed Feb 10 08:12:37 2010 Subject: shared objects in different canvasses Message-ID: <4DFAAC16-D82D-46D6-97C6-9CADC77C3335@lingewoud.nl> Hi, I'm reposting this message which I earlier posted on the forum. ---- I used to use ArgoUML for managing the inventory and deployment of our servers and applications. One feature of ArgoUML is that you can make several diagrams where the same objects can be used. This way you can have on the one hand a diagram with all hosts and on the other hand a solution diagram where some of these hosts are linked and also contain software components. These objects in ArgoUML don't have to look visually the same in the different diagrams but their meta data like their object name always stay the same and thus unique. If you work this way the outline of child components grows and but still stays clean without any extra work, because their is no redundant information. Another reason why this would be very usefull is that OmniGraffle could be used as data input interface for complex systems like CMS's or data center management tools. At this point OmniGraffle is only usefull for visualizing data coming from these systems. I know of linkback and I know of the shared layers feature, but both don't seem to fullfill above needs. The Shared layers seemed promising but their is no outline of shared objects and if you change the appearance of an object it changes everywhere. Will this feature of sharing object meta data with different graphic appearance in different stencils ever be available in OmniGraffle? Is their a way of working to achieve the above already in OmniGraffle Pro 5? Regards, Pim Snel Lingewoud B.V. Voorstraat 8 4147 CC Asperen Tel. +31 (0)345 582222 Fax. +31 (0)345 820203 From jpage at omnigroup.com Thu Feb 11 08:25:49 2010 From: jpage at omnigroup.com (Joel Page) Date: Thu Feb 11 08:25:51 2010 Subject: OmniGraffle 5.2.2 beta 1 is now available Message-ID: <8732B942-3A62-46E1-A683-F662103169B6@omnigroup.com> There just happens to be *another* platform that we sometimes develop for, that's not the iPad, and as such we've just released a beta version of OmniGraffle and OmniGraffle Professional 5.2.2. This release contains s good many bug fixes dealing with shared layers and Mac OS 10.6 compatibility, along with fixes to a number of crashes when working with Visio files, PDFs, and subgraphs. We've added a preference to turn off multi-touch gestures on laptops that have that feature, and a last-minute hidden preference to disable the scrollwheel to zoom in and out when Commmand is held down, for those of you using Apple's new Magic Mouse. Much more information is in the release notes page , and downloads are on the beta page . Cheers, Joel Page Product Manager, OmniGraffle The Omni Group From garytreible at me.com Wed Feb 17 15:34:15 2010 From: garytreible at me.com (Gary Treible) Date: Wed Feb 17 15:41:20 2010 Subject: Magnet snaps to 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4 the height of a rectangle Message-ID: <6887EFBF-FAC0-4E86-8D9A-5C9D9B6C6FDA@me.com> I'm trying to make an integrated circuit symbol, which is essentially a rectangle with pins (horizontal lines) spaced evenly along the sides. I'm placing a magnet on the shape where I want each line to start. Unfortunately, when I get near 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4 the height of the rectangle, a blue line appears and my magnet jumps to a location I don't want. I'm sure there's a way to disable this behavior but I don't even know what it might be called to search for it in the help. How do I turn this off? Also, can I get magnets to snap to the grid? They seem free form except when I get near these dimensions of the shape. If magnets were going to snap to anything, I would think it would be the grid if I have that turned on. This has been very frustrating. Thanks for any help with this! From jpage at omnigroup.com Wed Feb 17 15:45:40 2010 From: jpage at omnigroup.com (Joel Page) Date: Wed Feb 17 15:45:42 2010 Subject: Magnet snaps to 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4 the height of a rectangle In-Reply-To: <6887EFBF-FAC0-4E86-8D9A-5C9D9B6C6FDA@me.com> References: <6887EFBF-FAC0-4E86-8D9A-5C9D9B6C6FDA@me.com> Message-ID: Hold down the Command key when moving the magnet around, that will temporarily disable the smart guides. As for snapping to the grid, magnets are considered zero-by-zero entities, so unfortunately they're not selectable and can't snap to the grid (we wish to change this for a future release). Hope that helps, Joel On Feb 17, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Gary Treible wrote: > I'm trying to make an integrated circuit symbol, which is essentially a rectangle with pins (horizontal lines) spaced evenly along the sides. I'm placing a magnet on the shape where I want each line to start. Unfortunately, when I get near 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4 the height of the rectangle, a blue line appears and my magnet jumps to a location I don't want. I'm sure there's a way to disable this behavior but I don't even know what it might be called to search for it in the help. How do I turn this off? > > Also, can I get magnets to snap to the grid? They seem free form except when I get near these dimensions of the shape. If magnets were going to snap to anything, I would think it would be the grid if I have that turned on. > > This has been very frustrating. > > Thanks for any help with this!_______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From h.zuidam at online.nl Thu Feb 18 00:37:52 2010 From: h.zuidam at online.nl (Hans Zuidam) Date: Thu Feb 18 00:45:39 2010 Subject: Drawing electronic (digital) timing diagrams Message-ID: <5F68A916-9AB4-4D62-8FB0-BCA071AC9A0D@online.nl> Hi, I want to use OmniGraffle to draw timing diagrams for electronic signals such as the (ASCII art :-) diagram below: | _________________ _______________ | / \ / | / \/ +--- ---------------------- | \ / | \_________________/ | To make drawing a little simpler I want to create stencils for a number of basic shapes, such as the first part above where the signal can both be high and low and the second part where a signal is high. The shapes themselves are to resize horizontally, but the slopes of the edges should stay constant. Anyone an idea how to achieve that? Thanks in advance. With kind regards, Hans -- Hans Zuidam De Koppele 136, 5632 LD Eindhoven, The Netherlands Tel. +31 40 2481546, Mob. +31 6 42345456 h.zuidam@computer.org From waynefb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 18 10:15:31 2010 From: waynefb at earthlink.net (Wayne Brissette) Date: Thu Feb 18 10:15:33 2010 Subject: Flatten SVGs? Message-ID: <22685178.1266516931461.JavaMail.root@mtwamui-sandhill.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I've stumbled across an issue where if I open a PDF using OmniGraffle Pro copy and paste the contents into a OG document, then export that drawing as an SVG, a single SVG file is produced. However, if I place the PDF image instead of opening it, the resulting SVG file is not a flat file, it is a folder with a PDF inside it. First, why is this? Second, is there a way to consistently get a flat file instead of a folder with an SVG file and PDF when doing an export? Wayne From wiml at omnigroup.com Fri Feb 19 16:41:46 2010 From: wiml at omnigroup.com (Wim Lewis) Date: Fri Feb 19 16:35:30 2010 Subject: Flatten SVGs? In-Reply-To: <22685178.1266516931461.JavaMail.root@mtwamui-sandhill.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <22685178.1266516931461.JavaMail.root@mtwamui-sandhill.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Feb 18, 2010, at 10:15 AM, Wayne Brissette wrote: > I've stumbled across an issue where if I open a PDF using OmniGraffle Pro copy and paste the contents into a OG document, then export that drawing as an SVG, a single SVG file is produced. However, if I place the PDF image instead of opening it, the resulting SVG file is not a flat file, it is a folder with a PDF inside it. This has to do with the difference in what OmniGraffle is doing when you import a PDF in each case. If you open a PDF as if it were a document, OG will parse the contents of the PDF and attempt to convert it into an equivalent OmniGraffle document. Lines and text in the PDF will be converted to lines and text objects in OG. The conversion is far from perfect, but it's often good enough. If you place the PDF as an image, OG will treat it in the same way it would treat a PNG or JPEG: an embedded image file that occupies some rectangular space on the canvas, but OG doesn't know about the PDF's internal structure. > Second, is there a way to consistently get a flat file instead of a folder with an SVG file and PDF when doing an export? If the document has any external resources --- any embedded images, basically --- then OmniGraffle needs a place to put them where the SVG file can reference them, so it will export the SVG as a directory + images. If everything can be placed directly in the SVG file, then OG will simply create an SVG file. From jpage at omnigroup.com Wed Feb 24 13:42:54 2010 From: jpage at omnigroup.com (Joel Page) Date: Wed Feb 24 13:42:56 2010 Subject: OmniGraffle 5.2.2 release candidate 1 is now available Message-ID: Between iPad development meetings, wireframing, mocking things up, and general UI theorycrafting, I managed to remember to release OmniGraffle 5.2.2 rc 1, but almost forgot to tell anyone about it. So, beta testing went well, and we're here at release candidate stage. Simple enough. You may find the release candidate at our beta page , and as always, release notes await . Joel Page Product Manager, OmniGraffle The Omni Group From nic at mac.com Fri Mar 12 09:44:31 2010 From: nic at mac.com (Nic Olinsky) Date: Fri Mar 12 09:44:45 2010 Subject: iPad version beta Message-ID: <386562F6-E1E1-4A87-AF92-77227DBFF0A0@mac.com> Now that my order is officially placed, I was wondering if you are taking applications for beta testers? From michael at hesta.com Fri Mar 12 09:49:12 2010 From: michael at hesta.com (Michael Styles Verruto) Date: Fri Mar 12 09:48:15 2010 Subject: iPad version beta In-Reply-To: <386562F6-E1E1-4A87-AF92-77227DBFF0A0@mac.com> References: <386562F6-E1E1-4A87-AF92-77227DBFF0A0@mac.com> Message-ID: YEAH ARE YA- HUH HUH HUH?????? PLEASE? On Mar 12, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: > Now that my order is officially placed, I was wondering if you are > taking applications for beta testers? > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From elliott at yrl.co.uk Fri Mar 12 11:32:23 2010 From: elliott at yrl.co.uk (Elliott Roper) Date: Fri Mar 12 11:38:36 2010 Subject: iPad version beta In-Reply-To: References: <386562F6-E1E1-4A87-AF92-77227DBFF0A0@mac.com> Message-ID: On 12 Mar 2010, at 17:49, Michael Styles Verruto wrote: > YEAH ARE YA- HUH HUH HUH?????? > > PLEASE? No pressure then? From zaxaz at mac.com Fri Mar 12 12:47:30 2010 From: zaxaz at mac.com (Scott) Date: Fri Mar 12 12:48:12 2010 Subject: iPad version beta In-Reply-To: References: <386562F6-E1E1-4A87-AF92-77227DBFF0A0@mac.com> Message-ID: Same here, would love to participate. On Mar 12, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Michael Styles Verruto wrote: > YEAH ARE YA- HUH HUH HUH?????? > > PLEASE? > > > On Mar 12, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: > >> Now that my order is officially placed, I was wondering if you are taking applications for beta testers? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From omni_groupie at unithom.com Fri Mar 12 22:55:33 2010 From: omni_groupie at unithom.com (Thom Brooks) Date: Fri Mar 12 22:55:36 2010 Subject: iPad version beta In-Reply-To: <386562F6-E1E1-4A87-AF92-77227DBFF0A0@mac.com> References: <386562F6-E1E1-4A87-AF92-77227DBFF0A0@mac.com> Message-ID: Fourth-ed, or whatever. Yes please! On Fri, 12 Mar 2010, Nic Olinsky wrote: > Now that my order is officially placed, I was wondering if you are taking > applications for beta testers? From treaves at silverfieldstech.com Sat Mar 13 06:14:10 2010 From: treaves at silverfieldstech.com (Timothy Reaves) Date: Sat Mar 13 06:20:47 2010 Subject: iPad version beta In-Reply-To: References: <386562F6-E1E1-4A87-AF92-77227DBFF0A0@mac.com> Message-ID: <18C3246D-D2CB-4D1E-9716-21BB314B6AA4@silverfieldstech.com> On Mar 13, 2010, at 1:55 AM, Thom Brooks wrote: > Fourth-ed, or whatever. Yes please! > > On Fri, 12 Mar 2010, Nic Olinsky wrote: > >> Now that my order is officially placed, I was wondering if you are taking applications for beta testers? Ar we really going to have everyone on the list perpetuate this? People, think: if the want testers, they'll ask for them. They've been doing this a while. From chris.ridd at isode.com Mon Mar 15 09:23:58 2010 From: chris.ridd at isode.com (Chris Ridd) Date: Mon Mar 15 09:30:04 2010 Subject: iPad version beta In-Reply-To: References: <386562F6-E1E1-4A87-AF92-77227DBFF0A0@mac.com> Message-ID: <4B9E5F1E.6060305@isode.com> On 12/03/2010 19:32, Elliott Roper wrote: > > On 12 Mar 2010, at 17:49, Michael Styles Verruto wrote: > >> YEAH ARE YA- HUH HUH HUH?????? >> >> PLEASE? > > > No pressure then? No, the iPad screen is not pressure-sensitive :-) Cheers, Chris From neil at bowers.com Tue Mar 16 08:09:39 2010 From: neil at bowers.com (Neil Bowers) Date: Tue Mar 16 08:09:47 2010 Subject: Export to powerpoint? Message-ID: <315064D8-259B-43DA-874A-6E52D098BB07@bowers.com> I feel dirty suggesting this, but it would be incredibly helpful if OmniGraffle (Pro, I guess) could export PowerPoint pictures. I spend a lot of my time creating slides, most of which contain pictures that I create using omnigraffle. My current mode of working is to copy pictures as PDF, so I can scale them, and have them look good when presenting. But there are times when I want to animate the building of picture, which means I either have to use the PPT drawing tools or build multiple slides to fake the animation. Neither of those is pleasing. Having "Copy As" -> "PowerPoint picture" would be the most useful for the way I work. Either that, or could you just create your powerpoint replacement? ;-) Neil From mphsmcdonald at gmail.com Tue Mar 16 14:14:36 2010 From: mphsmcdonald at gmail.com (Charles J McDonald) Date: Tue Mar 16 14:14:44 2010 Subject: Export to powerpoint? In-Reply-To: <315064D8-259B-43DA-874A-6E52D098BB07@bowers.com> References: <315064D8-259B-43DA-874A-6E52D098BB07@bowers.com> Message-ID: <2169694D-C5E2-404D-9DB8-5376EAB537ED@gmail.com> On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:09, Neil Bowers wrote: > I feel dirty suggesting this, but it would be incredibly helpful if OmniGraffle (Pro, I guess) > could export PowerPoint pictures. HAHA, I could see some real use to that. As a teacher, I'm making up slides for high school students and adult professional development all the time. I create my elements in OmniGraffle and do the same copy-paste trick to bring them into Keynote where the magic move transitions make some beautiful animations for me... it's not a solution but its a quick, dirty way to get some Ooo-Ahh's. Oh, when I do get compliments on my beautiful "PowerPoint" slides, I just gracefully accept the compliment. They don't need to know ;) -- Chuck ---------------------------------------- Charles J McDonald, Ed.D. Teacher Leader Department of Natural Philosophy Mt Pleasant High School http://www.linkedin.com/in/cjmcdonald42 http://sites.google.com/site/mphscience From jpage at omnigroup.com Wed Mar 24 11:40:39 2010 From: jpage at omnigroup.com (Joel Page) Date: Wed Mar 24 11:40:45 2010 Subject: OmniGraffle 5.2.2 is now available Message-ID: <721EA3DB-173B-4540-AE2D-CF6232916418@omnigroup.com> Amidst all the craziness going on with iPad development, this version of OmniGraffle got pushed to the wayside a wee tad, we've basically been ready to go final with it but kept delaying the release in order to work on that *other* OmniGraffle project. To sum up (for those of you who may not have been keeping up with the beta releases), we've added some preferences to disable the Multi-Touch trackpad gestures, as well as some preferences for dealing with momentum scrolling if you're using a Magic Mouse, and fixed a fair number of bugs associated with shared layers and Mac OS X 10.6 "Snow Leopard". You can find the disk images to download at our newly-revamped downloads page , and read up at the historical release notes page . Cheers, Joel Page Product Manager, OmniGraffle The Omni Group From chuckbo at hinkles.us Thu Mar 25 14:03:16 2010 From: chuckbo at hinkles.us (Chuck Hinkle) Date: Thu Mar 25 14:03:22 2010 Subject: Any way to work around this error? Message-ID: <4B526330-B7B2-444A-B39C-429987BF5598@hinkles.us> I have an OG doc that I've been working on this week. I just finished it, saved a PDF version to send out to my team, and exported a Visio version to store on my Windows account. Then I saved my final version of the Graffle doc. I just went back to open the OG doc, and I get this error. The document "Quarterly report" could not be opened. Encountered unknown tag VisioDocument on line 2. I did not try to open the Visio version; this is the Graffle version that gives me this error. I just tried to open the Visio version in OG, and it doesn't look right, so I'd rather not try to work off of that document. But I will if there's no way to recover my real document. I'm running OmniGraffle Pro 4.2.1 (v129.15) Any suggestions? Chuck Chuck Hinkle [INTJ] "Perception is usually more persuasive than reality." From neil at bowers.com Thu Mar 25 16:04:28 2010 From: neil at bowers.com (Neil Bowers) Date: Thu Mar 25 16:05:17 2010 Subject: Any way to work around this error? In-Reply-To: <4B526330-B7B2-444A-B39C-429987BF5598@hinkles.us> References: <4B526330-B7B2-444A-B39C-429987BF5598@hinkles.us> Message-ID: <3E10F328-5847-4290-B6AA-FB6C77A1DD3C@bowers.com> > I have an OG doc that I've been working on this week. I just finished it, saved a PDF version to send out to my team, and exported a Visio version to store on my Windows account. Then I saved my final version of the Graffle doc. > > I just went back to open the OG doc, and I get this error. > The document "Quarterly report" could not be opened. Encountered unknown tag VisioDocument on line 2. Sounds like the visio document has been saved with the .graffle extension. I just created a diagram, exported it as a visio file and then renamed it to .graffle. If I now try and open it, omnigraffle complains with the same error message you gave. Try renaming the file with a .vdx extension, and reopening it. Sounds like you may have lost your graffle original ... Neil From nic at mac.com Thu Apr 1 12:45:36 2010 From: nic at mac.com (Nic Olinsky) Date: Thu Apr 1 12:46:05 2010 Subject: ipad Message-ID: wow, $50. any customer loyalty discount? From nic at mac.com Thu Apr 1 15:14:00 2010 From: nic at mac.com (Nic Olinsky) Date: Thu Apr 1 15:14:17 2010 Subject: ipad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: yes, available now. worth twice the price as far as I am concerned, just had a little sticker shock. It will officially be the most expensive purchase I will make from the iTunes App Store. On Apr 1, 2010, at 3:10 PM, Scott wrote: > $50 for what? iPad verson of omnigraffle ? > > On Apr 1, 2010, at 12:45 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: > >> wow, $50. any customer loyalty discount? >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > From nic at mac.com Thu Apr 1 15:29:55 2010 From: nic at mac.com (Nic Olinsky) Date: Thu Apr 1 15:29:59 2010 Subject: ipad In-Reply-To: <46DB1922-156C-4E0D-93A8-2BE89C06C8A7@mac.com> References: <46DB1922-156C-4E0D-93A8-2BE89C06C8A7@mac.com> Message-ID: <6BC0C1F6-8627-4526-B5AF-67F4448BE5D4@mac.com> Search for "ipad" in App Store for a listing of all iPad apps available. I'm waiting for a 3G model also, but couldn't help buying the iWorks suite already! OmniGraffle will be next. On Apr 1, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Scott wrote: > Wow, Thanks for the notice. I will definitely buy it as well although I will not receive my iPad until late April since I ordered the WiFi+3G model. Where did you see the pricing? I haven't seen anything come out mentioning it other than your email message. > > Thanks, > Scott > > On Apr 1, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: > >> yes, available now. worth twice the price as far as I am concerned, just had a little sticker shock. It will officially be the most expensive purchase I will make from the iTunes App Store. >> >> On Apr 1, 2010, at 3:10 PM, Scott wrote: >> >>> $50 for what? iPad verson of omnigraffle ? >>> >>> On Apr 1, 2010, at 12:45 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: >>> >>>> wow, $50. any customer loyalty discount? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >>>> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >>>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > From nic at mac.com Thu Apr 1 16:19:54 2010 From: nic at mac.com (Nic Olinsky) Date: Thu Apr 1 16:20:15 2010 Subject: ipad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's a tough call. I don't know what it costs to port an application from Mac OS X to the iPhone/iPad platform, but I know the OmniGroup's resources aren't those of larger developers, so I am willing to pay the price and hope the functionality equals its OS X cousin. On Apr 1, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Stephen Thomas wrote: > As a longtime fan and heavy user of OmniGraffle Pro, I have to admit that the $50 price tag means I'm going to pass on the iPad version. And I say that even though I expect to end up using the iPad as my primary personal computer (replacing an iBook G4). I do know how useful OmniGraffle Pro can be, and I prefer using it on my current computer, but to be honest, most of my diagramming needs can be met just fine with the latest version of Keynote. Sure, about 50% of the time OG would be more convenient, and probably about 10% of the time what I want to do just won't be possible in Keynote, but for $50 I'll live with the inconvenience and a few frustrated artistic aspirations. Apple is probably setting an unreasonable pricing expectation with their $10 iWork apps (the Apple brand will help them make it up in volume; plus they're really using apps to drive hardware sales). Still, no more than about $20 seems right for an iPad version of OG. Wolfram Alpha's recent capitulation may be instructive here (though, in their case no more than $5 seems reasonable; interesting that they've gone all the way to $2). Of course, I'm still a big fan of the Omni Group (I own OmniGraffle, OmniPlan, OmniOutliner, and OmniGraphSketcher), and I hope they continue to be successful. At least for now, though, they'll have to do it without me on the iPad. > > Stephen > > > On 2010 April 1, at 3:45 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: > >> wow, $50. any customer loyalty discount? >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > From nic at mac.com Thu Apr 1 16:45:29 2010 From: nic at mac.com (Nic Olinsky) Date: Thu Apr 1 16:45:33 2010 Subject: ipad In-Reply-To: <3FCD6ED6-85BF-470A-BD1A-BF2B70094705@waterscreek.com> References: <3FCD6ED6-85BF-470A-BD1A-BF2B70094705@waterscreek.com> Message-ID: <9D6CF3C3-5DBA-4C6E-AAA9-920D08695E89@mac.com> I have about 3 weeks before my iPad arrives, so I have some time to see how things shake out. On Apr 1, 2010, at 4:37 PM, Stephen Thomas wrote: > I'm pretty sure that they've done a whole lot more than just port from Mac to the iPad. At least I hope so. The iPad is an entirely new way to interact with a computer, and the UX part of an app probably needs to be re-thought from scratch. In fact, that's one of the reasons I'm holding off on spending money on iPad apps. It's going to take developers a while to figure out how to make the best use of the platform. There may be a land grab at first, but I think the more satisfying apps will be from those developers who take the time to live with the iPad for awhile and really learn how users interact with it. Kudos to the Omni Group for meeting the launch deadline. I'm sure their iPad apps are as high a quality as the desktop versions. But I'm also sure that we'll all learn a lot about the iPad in the next 6 months or so, and I expect OG to have much improved versions within that time. The developers that are racing just to get an app out quickly, with no intention of making significant improvements later; those are the developers I'd stay away from . (And, sad to say, from the looks of the iTunes store right now, just about all the apps seem to be in danger of falling into that category.) The obvious exception is Apple. Presumably, the iWork team has had a significant chance to work with the iPad, and I expect their apps will be much more finely tuned to the uniqueness of the iPad experience. > > So my plan is to pick up the iWork apps as soon as I have an iPad. I'll also try out some free apps (NY Times looks interesting) and any iPhone apps that I own that have iPad versions (Sketches 2 and Instaviz). But otherwise I'll hold onto my cash for a few months to see what really develops in the market. > > > On 2010 April 1, at 7:19 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: > >> I don't know what it costs to port an application from Mac OS X to the iPhone/iPad platform > From Clint.Macdonald at ttuhsc.edu Thu Apr 1 19:15:52 2010 From: Clint.Macdonald at ttuhsc.edu (Macdonald, Clint) Date: Thu Apr 1 19:25:31 2010 Subject: ipad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0FBEBCD2-C6CF-417F-8CA4-0F0202083106@ttuhsc.edu> Friends: At the risk of sounding like a whiney cry-baby, I think I am aligned with Messrs. Olinsky and Thomas. US$50 seems like an astonishingly high price for OmniGraffle.iPad. Here is my reasoning: I do not know too much about marketing (and this is where the OmniGroup folks could call me out), but I know that application pricing is an art and a science. Ideally, one wants to price an application at a high enough price that *some* fraction of the potential audience will wince ? otherwise, the company is leaving money on the table. I do not know what that fraction is, but let us say it is 20% of the potential market. Finding that exact price is, I am sure, tricky. I also know that one does not want to price the app so high that too much of the market passes on the sale. If, say, 80% of the potential market passes on the sale, the company is leaving a *lot* of money on the table. I wonder if the price of $50 is leaving too much of the market behind. Has Omni hit that "sweet" spot at $50? I cannot say for sure. If this were a shareware application, I could test the app for a few weeks and determine whether OmniGraffle.iPad fit into my workflow. Under those circumstances, I might find it cheap at $50, but I cannot test that possibility. Andy Ihnatko gave a magnificent on-air review of the iPad yesterday on MacBreak Weekly. On the show, when Alex Lindsay asked about OmniGraffle, Ihnatko admitted it was too pricey for his blood: Taking myself as another example, I am OmniGraffle's ideal market: affluent, design-minded, early adopter, a heavy user of OmniGraffle.app, the whole bag. One of the apps I was most excited about was OmniGraffle.iPad? until I heard that it was priced at $50. I can buy all three Apple iWork apps for that and still have money left over to buy dinner. Don't get me wrong ? OmniGroup's applications are of the very highest quality, and are worth a premium over other apps. I assume (though I cannot test) that OmniGraffle.iPad will be magnificent and will only get better as Omni becomes more familiar with the iPad's interface. But I can probably get 60% of its utility at 20% of its price by buying Keynote.iPad. With the money I save, I could probably upgrade to the next version of OmniGraffle for the Mac. Best wishes, Clint On Apr 1, 2010, at 6:19 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: > It's a tough call. I don't know what it costs to port an application from Mac OS X to the iPhone/iPad platform, but I know the OmniGroup's resources aren't those of larger developers, so I am willing to pay the price and hope the functionality equals its OS X cousin. > > On Apr 1, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Stephen Thomas wrote: > >> As a longtime fan and heavy user of OmniGraffle Pro, I have to admit that the $50 price tag means I'm going to pass on the iPad version. And I say that even though I expect to end up using the iPad as my primary personal computer (replacing an iBook G4). I do know how useful OmniGraffle Pro can be, and I prefer using it on my current computer, but to be honest, most of my diagramming needs can be met just fine with the latest version of Keynote. Sure, about 50% of the time OG would be more convenient, and probably about 10% of the time what I want to do just won't be possible in Keynote, but for $50 I'll live with the inconvenience and a few frustrated artistic aspirations. Apple is probably setting an unreasonable pricing expectation with their $10 iWork apps (the Apple brand will help them make it up in volume; plus they're really using apps to drive hardware sales). Still, no more than about $20 seems right for an iPad version of OG. Wolfram Alpha's recent capitulation may be instructive here (though, in their case no more than $5 seems reasonable; interesting that they've gone all the way to $2). Of course, I'm still a big fan of the Omni Group (I own OmniGraffle, OmniPlan, OmniOutliner, and OmniGraphSketcher), and I hope they continue to be successful. At least for now, though, they'll have to do it without me on the iPad. >> >> Stephen >> >> >> On 2010 April 1, at 3:45 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: >> >>> wow, $50. any customer loyalty discount? From omni_groupie at unithom.com Thu Apr 1 21:41:24 2010 From: omni_groupie at unithom.com (Thom Brooks) Date: Thu Apr 1 21:50:48 2010 Subject: ipad In-Reply-To: <0FBEBCD2-C6CF-417F-8CA4-0F0202083106@ttuhsc.edu> References: <0FBEBCD2-C6CF-417F-8CA4-0F0202083106@ttuhsc.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Apr 2010, Macdonald, Clint wrote: > At the risk of sounding like a whiney cry-baby, In the forums, Ken Case said, "Wait until we actually make an announcement of the price and the feature set, before you pass judgement." http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=15804 * This is _the_ app I have been waiting for on iPad. I am so glad that they chose this as one of the first ones to port. The potential is enormous. * The price is never permanent. Software prices change all of the time on the app store. If you're not happy, wait a bit and see if it comes down. Yes: on the one hand, I think the price is steep. On the other hand, I have been reading phrases like, "We're working like crazy on the apps. For example, the only time yesterday that one of us didn't check in code for OmniGraffle for iPad was between 4 and 5am." http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?p=74488 I don't know if these guys bill hourly or are salaried or what, but regardless, they are all making some pretty big personal sacrifices to make these products the best that they can. This is not a large company. I suspect that the people who work on the software end up reading the mailing list, forums, etc. Having worked a few all-night-for-many-night software releases, I can only imagine that Omni are thinking of a way to recoup some of those 'midnight oil' costs. Or maybe they've just taken a hard look at what it costs for them to make software. I'm one of those folks who will have iPad + 3G 'lag envy' this Saturday.. and for a few weeks after that. Despite that, I just made my decision and clicked 'buy app.' I hope you'll do the same. Thom Brooks Austin, TX From kc at omnigroup.com Fri Apr 2 07:28:53 2010 From: kc at omnigroup.com (Ken Case) Date: Fri Apr 2 07:28:54 2010 Subject: OmniGraffle and OmniGraphSketcher are now available for iPad References: Message-ID: <70AE5DA8-F794-4026-8D74-40B509B1CF02@omnigroup.com> For those who aren't on our omni-press mailing list, I thought I'd forward along this morning's press release about our new iPad apps, OmniGraffle and OmniGraphSketcher. Product videos and other information about both apps are now available on our website (http://www.omnigroup.com/). And, wow, thank you everyone! OmniGraffle for iPad is already off to a strong start on the App Store: it's currently the top grossing third-party iPad app, right behind Apple's iWork apps. Ken Begin forwarded message: > From: omni-press@omnigroup.com > Date: April 2, 2010 6:10:47 AM PDT > To: omni-press@omnigroup.com > Subject: [PR] The Omni Group Announces Two Apps for iPad > > For Immediate Release > > > The Omni Group Announces Two Apps for iPad > > OmniGraffle and OmniGraphSketcher bring hands-on > productivity, diagramming and graph-drawing tools > to iPad > > SEATTLE, Washington -- April 2, 2010 -- The Omni Group today announced the availability of its OmniGraffle and OmniGraphSketcher Apps for iPad on the App Store. OmniGraffle is a popular diagramming and concept visualization program, while OmniGraphSketcher is a tool for fast, simple graph drawing and data plotting. Originally available exclusively for Mac, OmniGraffle and OmniGraphSketcher have been redesigned to take full advantage of the advanced capabilities of iPad. > > "We think iPad has amazing potential as a productivity tool, and we wanted to make sure our apps really leveraged its strengths rather than simply copying the features we'd built in our Mac apps," says Ken Case, founder and CEO of the Omni Group. "Everything's designed with iPad in mind; tools stay out of your way until you need them, and you interact directly with the elements in your document. It's a very focused, superior mobile experience." > > OmniGraphSketcher combines the quantitative power of data plotting with the ease of touchscreen drawing. OmniGraphSketcher helps people make elegant and precise graphs in seconds, whether from specific data to report or a concept to explain. It lets users create lines and data points, draw curves, and shade in important areas as easily as though they were using a basic drawing program, and they can add new data or change existing information simply by touching their graph. > > OmniGraffle makes quick work of creating a diagram, process chart, page layout, website wireframe, or graphic design. Use simple Multi-Touch gestures and OmniGraffle to draw shapes, drag in objects, and style everything until it's just right. OmniGraffle keeps lines connected to shapes even when they're moved, and includes smart guides, automatic layout, and a full set of built-in stencils, with the ability to download thousands more. > > Both apps are compatible with the Mac desktop versions, and include the ability to send and receive documents through email or share documents via PDF export. > > "As a company, we're very excited about iPad," says Case. "We believe Multi-Touch is the future of computing, and we plan to bring all of our productivity applications to the iPad." > > The OmniGraphSketcher App for iPad is available for $14.99, and the OmniGraffle App for iPad is available for $49.99 from the App Store on iPad or at www.itunes.com. > > About the Omni Group: > One of the first companies to develop software for the Mac OS X platform, the Omni Group is today a leading developer for Apple products and has designed several productivity applications for Mac OS X, iPhone, and now iPad. Founded in 1993, the Omni Group is located in Seattle, Washington. > > #### > Press Contact: > > Naomi Pearce, Pearce Communications > pr@omnigroup.com > omnigroup.com/pr From michael at hesta.com Fri Apr 2 08:43:33 2010 From: michael at hesta.com (Michael Styles Verruto) Date: Fri Apr 2 08:43:40 2010 Subject: Clam up and pay the 50 Clams..... Message-ID: <197240E6-3E24-479A-B0BA-134329FF926E@hesta.com> Ahhh, I'm buyin it. They deserve the support. Everyone quit whining and cough it up. It's piddling catchup for such overly reasonable app prices we've all enjoyed over these many years from Omni for INCREDIBLE software they OFTEN update to our collective hearts desires..... So they deserve a little "pop" once in a while form the throbbing horde.... Now OMNI if you could PLEASE give us a REAL 3d charting app for data Numbers that lays the text in dimension and perspective accurate - information relative relative "plane" :) I'll pay$100 for THAT. And buy all 10 of my employees a copy and an iPad and just to run it on!!!!! :) Thanks, really you guys (and gals) at OMNI for continuing great software service to all of us! Michael Sent from my iPhone "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." Bill Cosby On Apr 1, 2010, at 10:26 PM, "Macdonald, Clint" wrote: > Friends: > > At the risk of sounding like a whiney cry-baby, I think I am aligned with Messrs. Olinsky and Thomas. US$50 seems like an astonishingly high price for OmniGraffle.iPad. Here is my reasoning:......[yeadda yadda yadda] From kcwookie at mac.com Fri Apr 2 13:10:39 2010 From: kcwookie at mac.com (Mark Fuller) Date: Fri Apr 2 13:10:56 2010 Subject: OmniGraffle-Users Digest, Vol 75, Issue 1 Message-ID: My concerns about price, but from a different direction. I've held off on the latest upgrade due to price. Do I buy the iPad version and skip the Mac version? Decisions! -original message- Subject: OmniGraffle-Users Digest, Vol 75, Issue 1 From: omnigraffle-users-request@omnigroup.com Date: 04/02/2010 14:00 Send OmniGraffle-Users mailing list submissions to omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to omnigraffle-users-request@omnigroup.com You can reach the person managing the list at omnigraffle-users-owner@omnigroup.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of OmniGraffle-Users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. ipad (Nic Olinsky) 2. Re: ipad (Nic Olinsky) 3. Re: ipad (Nic Olinsky) 4. Re: ipad (Nic Olinsky) 5. Re: ipad (Nic Olinsky) 6. Re: ipad (Macdonald, Clint) 7. Re: ipad (Thom Brooks) 8. OmniGraffle and OmniGraphSketcher are now available for iPad (Ken Case) 9. Clam up and pay the 50 Clams..... (Michael Styles Verruto) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 12:45:36 -0700 From: Nic Olinsky Subject: ipad To: Omnigraffle Support Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii wow, $50. any customer loyalty discount? ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 15:14:00 -0700 From: Nic Olinsky Subject: Re: ipad To: Omnigraffle Support Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii yes, available now. worth twice the price as far as I am concerned, just had a little sticker shock. It will officially be the most expensive purchase I will make from the iTunes App Store. On Apr 1, 2010, at 3:10 PM, Scott wrote: > $50 for what? iPad verson of omnigraffle ? > > On Apr 1, 2010, at 12:45 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: > >> wow, $50. any customer loyalty discount? >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 15:29:55 -0700 From: Nic Olinsky Subject: Re: ipad To: Omnigraffle Support Message-ID: <6BC0C1F6-8627-4526-B5AF-67F4448BE5D4@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Search for "ipad" in App Store for a listing of all iPad apps available. I'm waiting for a 3G model also, but couldn't help buying the iWorks suite already! OmniGraffle will be next. On Apr 1, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Scott wrote: > Wow, Thanks for the notice. I will definitely buy it as well although I will not receive my iPad until late April since I ordered the WiFi+3G model. Where did you see the pricing? I haven't seen anything come out mentioning it other than your email message. > > Thanks, > Scott > > On Apr 1, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: > >> yes, available now. worth twice the price as far as I am concerned, just had a little sticker shock. It will officially be the most expensive purchase I will make from the iTunes App Store. >> >> On Apr 1, 2010, at 3:10 PM, Scott wrote: >> >>> $50 for what? iPad verson of omnigraffle ? >>> >>> On Apr 1, 2010, at 12:45 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: >>> >>>> wow, $50. any customer loyalty discount? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >>>> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >>>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 16:19:54 -0700 From: Nic Olinsky Subject: Re: ipad To: Omnigraffle Support Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It's a tough call. I don't know what it costs to port an application from Mac OS X to the iPhone/iPad platform, but I know the OmniGroup's resources aren't those of larger developers, so I am willing to pay the price and hope the functionality equals its OS X cousin. On Apr 1, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Stephen Thomas wrote: > As a longtime fan and heavy user of OmniGraffle Pro, I have to admit that the $50 price tag means I'm going to pass on the iPad version. And I say that even though I expect to end up using the iPad as my primary personal computer (replacing an iBook G4). I do know how useful OmniGraffle Pro can be, and I prefer using it on my current computer, but to be honest, most of my diagramming needs can be met just fine with the latest version of Keynote. Sure, about 50% of the time OG would be more convenient, and probably about 10% of the time what I want to do just won't be possible in Keynote, but for $50 I'll live with the inconvenience and a few frustrated artistic aspirations. Apple is probably setting an unreasonable pricing expectation with their $10 iWork apps (the Apple brand will help them make it up in volume; plus they're really using apps to drive hardware sales). Still, no more than about $20 seems right for an iPad version of OG. Wolfram Alpha's recent capitulation may be instructive here (though, in their case no more than $5 seems reasonable; interesting that they've gone all the way to $2). Of course, I'm still a big fan of the Omni Group (I own OmniGraffle, OmniPlan, OmniOutliner, and OmniGraphSketcher), and I hope they continue to be successful. At least for now, though, they'll have to do it without me on the iPad. > > Stephen > > > On 2010 April 1, at 3:45 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: > >> wow, $50. any customer loyalty discount? >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 16:45:29 -0700 From: Nic Olinsky Subject: Re: ipad To: Omnigraffle Support Message-ID: <9D6CF3C3-5DBA-4C6E-AAA9-920D08695E89@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have about 3 weeks before my iPad arrives, so I have some time to see how things shake out. On Apr 1, 2010, at 4:37 PM, Stephen Thomas wrote: > I'm pretty sure that they've done a whole lot more than just port from Mac to the iPad. At least I hope so. The iPad is an entirely new way to interact with a computer, and the UX part of an app probably needs to be re-thought from scratch. In fact, that's one of the reasons I'm holding off on spending money on iPad apps. It's going to take developers a while to figure out how to make the best use of the platform. There may be a land grab at first, but I think the more satisfying apps will be from those developers who take the time to live with the iPad for awhile and really learn how users interact with it. Kudos to the Omni Group for meeting the launch deadline. I'm sure their iPad apps are as high a quality as the desktop versions. But I'm also sure that we'll all learn a lot about the iPad in the next 6 months or so, and I expect OG to have much improved versions within that time. The developers that are racing just to get an app out quickly, with no intention of making significant improvements later; those are the developers I'd stay away from . (And, sad to say, from the looks of the iTunes store right now, just about all the apps seem to be in danger of falling into that category.) The obvious exception is Apple. Presumably, the iWork team has had a significant chance to work with the iPad, and I expect their apps will be much more finely tuned to the uniqueness of the iPad experience. > > So my plan is to pick up the iWork apps as soon as I have an iPad. I'll also try out some free apps (NY Times looks interesting) and any iPhone apps that I own that have iPad versions (Sketches 2 and Instaviz). But otherwise I'll hold onto my cash for a few months to see what really develops in the market. > > > On 2010 April 1, at 7:19 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: > >> I don't know what it costs to port an application from Mac OS X to the iPhone/iPad platform > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 21:15:52 -0500 From: "Macdonald, Clint" Subject: Re: ipad To: "omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com" Message-ID: <0FBEBCD2-C6CF-417F-8CA4-0F0202083106@ttuhsc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Friends: At the risk of sounding like a whiney cry-baby, I think I am aligned with Messrs. Olinsky and Thomas. US$50 seems like an astonishingly high price for OmniGraffle.iPad. Here is my reasoning: I do not know too much about marketing (and this is where the OmniGroup folks could call me out), but I know that application pricing is an art and a science. Ideally, one wants to price an application at a high enough price that *some* fraction of the potential audience will wince ? otherwise, the company is leaving money on the table. I do not know what that fraction is, but let us say it is 20% of the potential market. Finding that exact price is, I am sure, tricky. I also know that one does not want to price the app so high that too much of the market passes on the sale. If, say, 80% of the potential market passes on the sale, the company is leaving a *lot* of money on the table. I wonder if the price of $50 is leaving too much of the market behind. Has Omni hit that "sweet" spot at $50? I cannot say for sure. If this were a shareware application, I could test the app for a few weeks and determine whether OmniGraffle.iPad fit into my workflow. Under those circumstances, I might find it cheap at $50, but I cannot test that possibility. Andy Ihnatko gave a magnificent on-air review of the iPad yesterday on MacBreak Weekly. On the show, when Alex Lindsay asked about OmniGraffle, Ihnatko admitted it was too pricey for his blood: Taking myself as another example, I am OmniGraffle's ideal market: affluent, design-minded, early adopter, a heavy user of OmniGraffle.app, the whole bag. One of the apps I was most excited about was OmniGraffle.iPad? until I heard that it was priced at $50. I can buy all three Apple iWork apps for that and still have money left over to buy dinner. Don't get me wrong ? OmniGroup's applications are of the very highest quality, and are worth a premium over other apps. I assume (though I cannot test) that OmniGraffle.iPad will be magnificent and will only get better as Omni becomes more familiar with the iPad's interface. But I can probably get 60% of its utility at 20% of its price by buying Keynote.iPad. With the money I save, I could probably upgrade to the next version of OmniGraffle for the Mac. Best wishes, Clint On Apr 1, 2010, at 6:19 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: > It's a tough call. I don't know what it costs to port an application from Mac OS X to the iPhone/iPad platform, but I know the OmniGroup's resources aren't those of larger developers, so I am willing to pay the price and hope the functionality equals its OS X cousin. > > On Apr 1, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Stephen Thomas wrote: > >> As a longtime fan and heavy user of OmniGraffle Pro, I have to admit that the $50 price tag means I'm going to pass on the iPad version. And I say that even though I expect to end up using the iPad as my primary personal computer (replacing an iBook G4). I do know how useful OmniGraffle Pro can be, and I prefer using it on my current computer, but to be honest, most of my diagramming needs can be met just fine with the latest version of Keynote. Sure, about 50% of the time OG would be more convenient, and probably about 10% of the time what I want to do just won't be possible in Keynote, but for $50 I'll live with the inconvenience and a few frustrated artistic aspirations. Apple is probably setting an unreasonable pricing expectation with their $10 iWork apps (the Apple brand will help them make it up in volume; plus they're really using apps to drive hardware sales). Still, no more than about $20 seems right for an iPad version of OG. Wolfram Alpha's recent capitulation may be instructive here (though, in their case no more than $5 seems reasonable; interesting that they've gone all the way to $2). Of course, I'm still a big fan of the Omni Group (I own OmniGraffle, OmniPlan, OmniOutliner, and OmniGraphSketcher), and I hope they continue to be successful. At least for now, though, they'll have to do it without me on the iPad. >> >> Stephen >> >> >> On 2010 April 1, at 3:45 PM, Nic Olinsky wrote: >> >>> wow, $50. any customer loyalty discount? ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 23:41:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Thom Brooks Subject: Re: ipad To: "Macdonald, Clint" Cc: "omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 1 Apr 2010, Macdonald, Clint wrote: > At the risk of sounding like a whiney cry-baby, In the forums, Ken Case said, "Wait until we actually make an announcement of the price and the feature set, before you pass judgement." http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=15804 * This is _the_ app I have been waiting for on iPad. I am so glad that they chose this as one of the first ones to port. The potential is enormous. * The price is never permanent. Software prices change all of the time on the app store. If you're not happy, wait a bit and see if it comes down. Yes: on the one hand, I think the price is steep. On the other hand, I have been reading phrases like, "We're working like crazy on the apps. For example, the only time yesterday that one of us didn't check in code for OmniGraffle for iPad was between 4 and 5am." http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?p=74488 I don't know if these guys bill hourly or are salaried or what, but regardless, they are all making some pretty big personal sacrifices to make these products the best that they can. This is not a large company. I suspect that the people who work on the software end up reading the mailing list, forums, etc. Having worked a few all-night-for-many-night software releases, I can only imagine that Omni are thinking of a way to recoup some of those 'midnight oil' costs. Or maybe they've just taken a hard look at what it costs for them to make software. I'm one of those folks who will have iPad + 3G 'lag envy' this Saturday.. and for a few weeks after that. Despite that, I just made my decision and clicked 'buy app.' I hope you'll do the same. Thom Brooks Austin, TX ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 07:28:53 -0700 From: Ken Case Subject: OmniGraffle and OmniGraphSketcher are now available for iPad To: OmniGraffle Users , omninews@omnigroup.com Message-ID: <70AE5DA8-F794-4026-8D74-40B509B1CF02@omnigroup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii For those who aren't on our omni-press mailing list, I thought I'd forward along this morning's press release about our new iPad apps, OmniGraffle and OmniGraphSketcher. Product videos and other information about both apps are now available on our website (http://www.omnigroup.com/). And, wow, thank you everyone! OmniGraffle for iPad is already off to a strong start on the App Store: it's currently the top grossing third-party iPad app, right behind Apple's iWork apps. Ken Begin forwarded message: > From: omni-press@omnigroup.com > Date: April 2, 2010 6:10:47 AM PDT > To: omni-press@omnigroup.com > Subject: [PR] The Omni Group Announces Two Apps for iPad > > For Immediate Release > > > The Omni Group Announces Two Apps for iPad > > OmniGraffle and OmniGraphSketcher bring hands-on > productivity, diagramming and graph-drawing tools > to iPad > > SEATTLE, Washington -- April 2, 2010 -- The Omni Group today announced the availability of its OmniGraffle and OmniGraphSketcher Apps for iPad on the App Store. OmniGraffle is a popular diagramming and concept visualization program, while OmniGraphSketcher is a tool for fast, simple graph drawing and data plotting. Originally available exclusively for Mac, OmniGraffle and OmniGraphSketcher have been redesigned to take full advantage of the advanced capabilities of iPad. > > "We think iPad has amazing potential as a productivity tool, and we wanted to make sure our apps really leveraged its strengths rather than simply copying the features we'd built in our Mac apps," says Ken Case, founder and CEO of the Omni Group. "Everything's designed with iPad in mind; tools stay out of your way until you need them, and you interact directly with the elements in your document. It's a very focused, superior mobile experience." > > OmniGraphSketcher combines the quantitative power of data plotting with the ease of touchscreen drawing. OmniGraphSketcher helps people make elegant and precise graphs in seconds, whether from specific data to report or a concept to explain. It lets users create lines and data points, draw curves, and shade in important areas as easily as though they were using a basic drawing program, and they can add new data or change existing information simply by touching their graph. > > OmniGraffle makes quick work of creating a diagram, process chart, page layout, website wireframe, or graphic design. Use simple Multi-Touch gestures and OmniGraffle to draw shapes, drag in objects, and style everything until it's just right. OmniGraffle keeps lines connected to shapes even when they're moved, and includes smart guides, automatic layout, and a full set of built-in stencils, with the ability to download thousands more. > > Both apps are compatible with the Mac desktop versions, and include the ability to send and receive documents through email or share documents via PDF export. > > "As a company, we're very excited about iPad," says Case. "We believe Multi-Touch is the future of computing, and we plan to bring all of our productivity applications to the iPad." > > The OmniGraphSketcher App for iPad is available for $14.99, and the OmniGraffle App for iPad is available for $49.99 from the App Store on iPad or at www.itunes.com. > > About the Omni Group: > One of the first companies to develop software for the Mac OS X platform, the Omni Group is today a leading developer for Apple products and has designed several productivity applications for Mac OS X, iPhone, and now iPad. Founded in 1993, the Omni Group is located in Seattle, Washington. > > #### > Press Contact: > > Naomi Pearce, Pearce Communications > pr@omnigroup.com > omnigroup.com/pr ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 11:43:33 -0400 From: Michael Styles Verruto Subject: Clam up and pay the 50 Clams..... To: OmniGraffle Users Message-ID: <197240E6-3E24-479A-B0BA-134329FF926E@hesta.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ahhh, I'm buyin it. They deserve the support. Everyone quit whining and cough it up. It's piddling catchup for such overly reasonable app prices we've all enjoyed over these many years from Omni for INCREDIBLE software they OFTEN update to our collective hearts desires..... So they deserve a little "pop" once in a while form the throbbing horde.... Now OMNI if you could PLEASE give us a REAL 3d charting app for data Numbers that lays the text in dimension and perspective accurate - information relative relative "plane" :) I'll pay$100 for THAT. And buy all 10 of my employees a copy and an iPad and just to run it on!!!!! :) Thanks, really you guys (and gals) at OMNI for continuing great software service to all of us! Michael Sent from my iPhone "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." Bill Cosby On Apr 1, 2010, at 10:26 PM, "Macdonald, Clint" wrote: > Friends: > > At the risk of sounding like a whiney cry-baby, I think I am aligned with Messrs. Olinsky and Thomas. US$50 seems like an astonishingly high price for OmniGraffle.iPad. Here is my reasoning:......[yeadda yadda yadda] ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ OmniGraffle-Users mailing list OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users End of OmniGraffle-Users Digest, Vol 75, Issue 1 ************************************************ From elliott at yrl.co.uk Sat Apr 3 02:26:25 2010 From: elliott at yrl.co.uk (Elliott Roper) Date: Sat Apr 3 02:26:56 2010 Subject: Clam up and pay the 50 Clams..... In-Reply-To: <197240E6-3E24-479A-B0BA-134329FF926E@hesta.com> References: <197240E6-3E24-479A-B0BA-134329FF926E@hesta.com> Message-ID: On 2 Apr 2010, at 16:43, Michael Styles Verruto wrote: > Ahhh, I'm buyin it. They deserve the support. Everyone quit whining > and cough it up. It's piddling catchup for such overly reasonable > app prices we've all enjoyed over these many years from Omni for > INCREDIBLE software they OFTEN update to our collective hearts > desires..... So they deserve a little "pop" once in a while form the > throbbing horde.... > > Thanks, really you guys (and gals) at OMNI for continuing great > software service to all of us! Verit? Verruto! As someone old enough to remember having to pay $3000 per seat for a VMS Fortran compiler ferchrissakes, 50 bucks is practically free for such a great tool/toy. From zachary at kotodama.net Sat Apr 3 03:15:04 2010 From: zachary at kotodama.net (Zachary Braverman) Date: Sat Apr 3 03:21:51 2010 Subject: Clam up and pay the 50 Clams..... In-Reply-To: References: <197240E6-3E24-479A-B0BA-134329FF926E@hesta.com> Message-ID: <027B299A-C1DB-43F8-A97B-DCBCBE491245@kotodama.net> Omni should of course maximize their profit, but a price point of $50 might not be doing that. After forking out a lot of money for the hardware, accessories, the iWork apps, and some other apps (games...shhh!), my wallet is already in pretty bad shape right now. 50 dollars for a single app that duplicates functionality I already have on my computer is probably just too much. Just one data point, but $25 is probably my max for this. Zachary Braverman www.kotodam.net On Apr 3, 2010, at 6:26 PM, Elliott Roper wrote: > > On 2 Apr 2010, at 16:43, Michael Styles Verruto wrote: > >> Ahhh, I'm buyin it. They deserve the support. Everyone quit whining and cough it up. It's piddling catchup for such overly reasonable app prices we've all enjoyed over these many years from Omni for INCREDIBLE software they OFTEN update to our collective hearts desires..... So they deserve a little "pop" once in a while form the throbbing horde.... > >> >> Thanks, really you guys (and gals) at OMNI for continuing great software service to all of us! > > Verit? Verruto! > As someone old enough to remember having to pay $3000 per seat for a VMS Fortran compiler ferchrissakes, 50 bucks is practically free for such a great tool/toy. > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From anca at anca.tv Sat Apr 3 07:47:46 2010 From: anca at anca.tv (Anca Mosoiu) Date: Sat Apr 3 08:07:02 2010 Subject: Clam up and pay the 50 Clams..... In-Reply-To: References: <197240E6-3E24-479A-B0BA-134329FF926E@hesta.com> Message-ID: <56FD512F-0554-445B-BCB3-BD99045063C7@anca.tv> One of the tools I use to make a living is Omnigraffle. I'll have to see the demo before I buy, but if it's all that, $50 is pretty reasonable. Cheers, Anca Sent from my iPhone On Apr 3, 2010, at 2:26, Elliott Roper wrote: > > On 2 Apr 2010, at 16:43, Michael Styles Verruto wrote: > >> Ahhh, I'm buyin it. They deserve the support. Everyone quit whining >> and cough it up. It's piddling catchup for such overly reasonable >> app prices we've all enjoyed over these many years from Omni for >> INCREDIBLE software they OFTEN update to our collective hearts >> desires..... So they deserve a little "pop" once in a while form >> the throbbing horde.... > >> >> Thanks, really you guys (and gals) at OMNI for continuing great >> software service to all of us! > > Verit? Verruto! > As someone old enough to remember having to pay $3000 per seat for a > VMS Fortran compiler ferchrissakes, 50 bucks is practically free for > such a great tool/toy. > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From tingham at coalmarch.com Sat Apr 3 08:43:42 2010 From: tingham at coalmarch.com (Thomas Ingham) Date: Sat Apr 3 08:43:45 2010 Subject: Clam up and pay the 50 Clams..... In-Reply-To: <56FD512F-0554-445B-BCB3-BD99045063C7@anca.tv> References: <197240E6-3E24-479A-B0BA-134329FF926E@hesta.com> <56FD512F-0554-445B-BCB3-BD99045063C7@anca.tv> Message-ID: Frankly the idea that we should spend money to show "support" of any privately held for-profit enterprise seems completely foolish. If the software will provide benefit the absolutely go buy it. Discussing things as we have been borders on the dogmatic and stupid. Well said here, Anca On Saturday, April 3, 2010, Anca Mosoiu wrote: > One of the tools I use to make a living is Omnigraffle. I'll have to see the demo before I buy, but if it's all that, $50 is pretty reasonable. > > Cheers, > Ere> Anca > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 3, 2010, at 2:26, Elliott Roper wrote: > > > > On 2 Apr 2010, at 16:43, Michael Styles Verruto wrote: > > > Ahhh, I'm buyin it. They deserve the support. Everyone quit whining and cough it up. It's piddling catchup for such overly reasonable app prices we've all enjoyed over these many years from Omni for INCREDIBLE software they OFTEN update to our collective hearts desires..... So they deserve a little "pop" once in a while form the throbbing horde.... > > > > > Thanks, really you guys (and gals) at OMNI for continuing great software service to all of us! > > > Verit? Verruto! > As someone old enough to remember having to pay $3000 per seat for a VMS Fortran compiler ferchrissakes, 50 bucks is practically free for such a great tool/toy. > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > From ruben at azuralis.no Sun Apr 4 04:32:04 2010 From: ruben at azuralis.no (Ruben Olsen) Date: Sun Apr 4 04:38:52 2010 Subject: Clam up and pay the 50 Clams..... In-Reply-To: <027B299A-C1DB-43F8-A97B-DCBCBE491245@kotodama.net> References: <197240E6-3E24-479A-B0BA-134329FF926E@hesta.com> <027B299A-C1DB-43F8-A97B-DCBCBE491245@kotodama.net> Message-ID: Hi Zachary, As with any other purchase, software or hardware, do you really need the latest version of the software, or is it just "nice-to-hvae"? The same question applies to wether you need the pro version or can happily live without the few features that is available in the pro version. If your iPad/Macintosh is used for work related matter - then you will afford the software. If your iPad/Macintosh is strictly for private use - then you'll need to prioritize. OmniGraffle is a speciality application- it won't sell as many items as other, more main stream, applications. Due to this fact it is expected that such an application will cost a tad bit more. If you compare OmniGraffle to their main competitor on the Macintosh - their price is USD 50,- higher - and they do not have a iPad version. Seriously - USD 50,- is not expensive. If you had to spend USD 50,- a week to upgrade the software - then it would have been expensive. How often do you need to up grade OmniGraffle (or any other software) - once a year? Once every 1.5 year? If you take the cost of OmniGraffle (any version, any platform) and divide it on the number of days you had the software without upgrading - the price would be pretty low. When I did upgrade to the latest version of the software, it had gone more than 500 days since last upgrade (and I use it nearly every day for work related matters). This is less than 10,- US Cent a day. To put the price into a local perspective: If you compare the price of the software - it's in the same price point as a pizza with 2 large soft drinks (at least in this country). --- Best regards, Ruben Olsen OmniGraffle book author On 3. apr. 2010, at 12.15, Zachary Braverman wrote: > Omni should of course maximize their profit, but a price point of $50 might not be doing that. > > After forking out a lot of money for the hardware, accessories, the iWork apps, and some other apps (games...shhh!), my wallet is already in pretty bad shape right now. 50 dollars for a single app that duplicates functionality I already have on my computer is probably just too much. Just one data point, but $25 is probably my max for this. > > Zachary Braverman > www.kotodam.net > > > On Apr 3, 2010, at 6:26 PM, Elliott Roper wrote: > >> >> On 2 Apr 2010, at 16:43, Michael Styles Verruto wrote: >> >>> Ahhh, I'm buyin it. They deserve the support. Everyone quit whining and cough it up. It's piddling catchup for such overly reasonable app prices we've all enjoyed over these many years from Omni for INCREDIBLE software they OFTEN update to our collective hearts desires..... So they deserve a little "pop" once in a while form the throbbing horde.... >> >>> >>> Thanks, really you guys (and gals) at OMNI for continuing great software service to all of us! >> >> Verit? Verruto! >> As someone old enough to remember having to pay $3000 per seat for a VMS Fortran compiler ferchrissakes, 50 bucks is practically free for such a great tool/toy. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From sinclair at cs.dartmouth.edu Sun Apr 4 06:45:56 2010 From: sinclair at cs.dartmouth.edu (Scout Sinclair) Date: Sun Apr 4 06:53:52 2010 Subject: Clam up and pay the 50 Clams..... In-Reply-To: References: <197240E6-3E24-479A-B0BA-134329FF926E@hesta.com> <027B299A-C1DB-43F8-A97B-DCBCBE491245@kotodama.net> Message-ID: Folks, As much fun as it is to sit in our respective backseats and have a debate on the Omni Group's pricing decisions, I'm starting to think the discussion has drifted away from the Omnigraffle focus this list usually enjoys. I would therefore like to humbly request that you consider moving this particular conversation to one of the Omni Group Forums (e.g., http://forums.omnigroup.com/forumdisplay.php?f=60 or http://forums.omnigroup.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24 ). The more open nature of the forums could help draw in comments from the larger user and potential-user community. My best, Sara "Scout" Sinclair (Avid Omni fan and poor graduate student) > As with any other purchase, software or hardware, do you really need > the latest version of the software, or is it just "nice-to-hvae"? > > The same question applies to wether you need the pro version or can > happily live without the few features that is available in the pro > version. > > If your iPad/Macintosh is used for work related matter - then you > will afford the software. If your iPad/Macintosh is strictly for > private use - then you'll need to prioritize. > > OmniGraffle is a speciality application- it won't sell as many items > as other, more main stream, applications. Due to this fact it is > expected that such an application will cost a tad bit more. > > If you compare OmniGraffle to their main competitor on the Macintosh > - their price is USD 50,- higher - and they do not have a iPad > version. > > Seriously - USD 50,- is not expensive. If you had to spend USD 50,- > a week to upgrade the software - then it would have been expensive. > How often do you need to up grade OmniGraffle (or any other > software) - once a year? Once every 1.5 year? If you take the cost > of OmniGraffle (any version, any platform) and divide it on the > number of days you had the software without upgrading - the price > would be pretty low. When I did upgrade to the latest version of the > software, it had gone more than 500 days since last upgrade (and I > use it nearly every day for work related matters). This is less than > 10,- US Cent a day. > > To put the price into a local perspective: If you compare the price > of the software - it's in the same price point as a pizza with 2 > large soft drinks (at least in this country). > >> Omni should of course maximize their profit, but a price point of >> $50 might not be doing that. >> >> After forking out a lot of money for the hardware, accessories, the >> iWork apps, and some other apps (games...shhh!), my wallet is >> already in pretty bad shape right now. 50 dollars for a single app >> that duplicates functionality I already have on my computer is >> probably just too much. Just one data point, but $25 is probably my >> max for this. >>> >>> >>>> Ahhh, I'm buyin it. They deserve the support. Everyone quit >>>> whining and cough it up. It's piddling catchup for such overly >>>> reasonable app prices we've all enjoyed over these many years >>>> from Omni for INCREDIBLE software they OFTEN update to our >>>> collective hearts desires..... So they deserve a little "pop" >>>> once in a while form the throbbing horde.... >>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, really you guys (and gals) at OMNI for continuing great >>>> software service to all of us! >>> >>> Verit? Verruto! >>> As someone old enough to remember having to pay $3000 per seat for >>> a VMS Fortran compiler ferchrissakes, 50 bucks is practically free >>> for such a great tool/toy. From kc at omnigroup.com Sun Apr 4 09:35:05 2010 From: kc at omnigroup.com (Ken Case) Date: Sun Apr 4 09:35:07 2010 Subject: Price of OmniGraffle for iPad In-Reply-To: References: <197240E6-3E24-479A-B0BA-134329FF926E@hesta.com> <56FD512F-0554-445B-BCB3-BD99045063C7@anca.tv> Message-ID: <5B720CA1-D9CA-4823-82AB-66D1A4EA40A2@omnigroup.com> [I also posted this to http://forums.omnigroup.com/showpost.php?p=75422&postcount=36, but thought some of you might also find it interesting.] OmniGraffle for iPad isn't designed as a companion to the Mac app: it's designed as a complete standalone app, with support for multiple canvases, shared layers (only available in the Pro app on Mac), tables (also Pro-only on Mac), smart guides, automatic layout, text formatting, variable substitutions, and so on. In fact, in some respects OmniGraffle for iPad is a dramatic improvement over the Mac app: the touch interface makes it much easier to create freehand sketches, and if you've ever tried to use OmniGraffle heavily on a MacBook I think you'll agree that the iPad app provides a much better mobile experience. (Given the choice between bringing OmniGraffle for iPad or MacBook to a meeting, I'd choose OmniGraffle for iPad.) At half the price of the Mac app, OmniGraffle for iPad is already significantly less expensive than its Mac editions--so much less expensive that I worry about the degree to which it might cannibalize our Mac sales. As we said on our blog: $50 may be too much to spend on entertainment (although many console games cost more), but we don't intend OmniGraffle as a casual purchase: OmniGraffle for iPad is designed as a professional productivity tool, one which will make you more productive and will save you time and money every week. We feel confident you will be happy with the depth of the feature set, pleasantly surprised by some brand-new options only available on the iPad, and overall find OmniGraffle for iPad to be a good value. As always, we welcome your feedback, so feel free to talk to us about any concerns you have! Ken From net at canicula.com Sun Apr 4 09:45:27 2010 From: net at canicula.com (Ian Robinson) Date: Sun Apr 4 09:59:47 2010 Subject: Price of OmniGraffle for iPad In-Reply-To: <5B720CA1-D9CA-4823-82AB-66D1A4EA40A2@omnigroup.com> References: <197240E6-3E24-479A-B0BA-134329FF926E@hesta.com> <56FD512F-0554-445B-BCB3-BD99045063C7@anca.tv> <5B720CA1-D9CA-4823-82AB-66D1A4EA40A2@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: I'm okay with the price now. After initial raised eyebrows when I first saw it. As to using it in preference to the mac version on a MacBook; Can you use the iPad VGA adapter to project the OmniGraffle for iPad display on a big screen if using it in a meeting or brainstorming session? Or could a group of people with iPads, on the same wifi network work, on the same document? Ian Sent from my iPhone On 4 Apr 2010, at 17:35, Ken Case wrote: > [I also posted this to http://forums.omnigroup.com/showpost.php?p=75422&postcount=36 > , but thought some of you might also find it interesting.] > > OmniGraffle for iPad isn't designed as a companion to the Mac app: > it's designed as a complete standalone app, with support for > multiple canvases, shared layers (only available in the Pro app on > Mac), tables (also Pro-only on Mac), smart guides, automatic layout, > text formatting, variable substitutions, and so on. > > In fact, in some respects OmniGraffle for iPad is a dramatic > improvement over the Mac app: the touch interface makes it much > easier to create freehand sketches, and if you've ever tried to use > OmniGraffle heavily on a MacBook I think you'll agree that the iPad > app provides a much better mobile experience. (Given the choice > between bringing OmniGraffle for iPad or MacBook to a meeting, I'd > choose OmniGraffle for iPad.) > > At half the price of the Mac app, OmniGraffle for iPad is already > significantly less expensive than its Mac editions--so much less > expensive that I worry about the degree to which it might > cannibalize our Mac sales. > > As we said on our blog: > > $50 may be too much to spend on entertainment (although many console > games cost more), but we don't intend OmniGraffle as a casual > purchase: OmniGraffle for iPad is designed as a professional > productivity tool, one which will make you more productive and will > save you time and money every week. > > We feel confident you will be happy with the depth of the feature > set, pleasantly surprised by some brand-new options only available > on the iPad, and overall find OmniGraffle for iPad to be a good > value. As always, we welcome your feedback, so feel free to talk to > us about any concerns you have! > > Ken_______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From kc at omnigroup.com Sun Apr 4 10:21:58 2010 From: kc at omnigroup.com (Ken Case) Date: Sun Apr 4 10:22:00 2010 Subject: Capabilities of OmniGraffle for iPad In-Reply-To: References: <197240E6-3E24-479A-B0BA-134329FF926E@hesta.com> <56FD512F-0554-445B-BCB3-BD99045063C7@anca.tv> <5B720CA1-D9CA-4823-82AB-66D1A4EA40A2@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: On Apr 4, 2010, at 9:45 AM, Ian Robinson wrote: > I'm okay with the price now. After initial raised eyebrows when I first saw it. As to using it in preference to the mac version on a MacBook; Can you use the iPad VGA adapter to project the OmniGraffle for iPad display on a big screen if using it in a meeting or brainstorming session? That's not in the current 1.0 release, but we do plan to support this soon (now that we have actual hardware to test it on). > Or could a group of people with iPads, on the same wifi network work, on the same document? Collaborative editing could be pretty useful in some circumstances, but it's a really hard problem to solve well (we've put some thought into it) and it's not currently on the roadmap for either the iPad or Mac editions. Ken From kc at omnigroup.com Sun Apr 4 11:40:31 2010 From: kc at omnigroup.com (Ken Case) Date: Sun Apr 4 11:40:35 2010 Subject: Price of OmniGraffle for iPad In-Reply-To: <5B720CA1-D9CA-4823-82AB-66D1A4EA40A2@omnigroup.com> References: <197240E6-3E24-479A-B0BA-134329FF926E@hesta.com> <56FD512F-0554-445B-BCB3-BD99045063C7@anca.tv> <5B720CA1-D9CA-4823-82AB-66D1A4EA40A2@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <9208D0A3-5929-48E5-AF50-6A8A55B36996@omnigroup.com> A really good point was raised on the forums, which I think bears repeating here. Forum user davidwb wrote: > You are asking me to spend $50 on a product completely on faith. There's no demo, no lite version. The App store offers no money back guarantee. At $20 I'd cross my fingers and take the risk. Even knowing the quality of Omni products - owning two of them and upgrading them immediately since version 1 - I can't jump this shark. My reply: I think that's perfectly reasonable: you shouldn't spend that sort of money on faith, and we're not asking you to do so. Building an app worth $50 was simply our first challenge. (And while I think our design, engineering, and QA teams have done a great job so far, we've only reached our first 1.0 milestone: we're not done yet!) But having built that app, it's now our responsibility to demonstrate to your satisfaction that it's worth $50 of your money. We've started this process by posting screenshots and intro videos, but we have a lot more work to do on that front: we'll be publishing more videos and other information on our own web site, of course, but it would also help to have trusted third-party reviews, demo copies in retail stores, demo copies available for in-person demonstrations at user groups, and so on. So, no, please don't cross your fingers and spend your $50 completely on faith. Tell us what you need to be able to make an informed decision, and we'll do our best to help you reach one. (And if your informed decision is not to purchase the app, we'll understand!) Ken From Clint.Macdonald at ttuhsc.edu Sun Apr 4 11:47:03 2010 From: Clint.Macdonald at ttuhsc.edu (Macdonald, Clint) Date: Sun Apr 4 11:47:07 2010 Subject: Price of OmniGraffle for iPad In-Reply-To: <9208D0A3-5929-48E5-AF50-6A8A55B36996@omnigroup.com> References: <197240E6-3E24-479A-B0BA-134329FF926E@hesta.com> <56FD512F-0554-445B-BCB3-BD99045063C7@anca.tv> <5B720CA1-D9CA-4823-82AB-66D1A4EA40A2@omnigroup.com> <9208D0A3-5929-48E5-AF50-6A8A55B36996@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <4CE9A474-314F-4CAE-A0E5-1CF47C6F9E69@ttuhsc.edu> Mr. Case: This is the best, least hysterical reply I have heard to my query. Thanks! I look forward to being convinced that OmniGraffle.iPad is worth whatever you charge for it. Best wishes, Clint On Apr 4, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Ken Case wrote: > A really good point was raised on the forums, which I think bears repeating here. Forum user davidwb wrote: > >> You are asking me to spend $50 on a product completely on faith. There's no demo, no lite version. The App store offers no money back guarantee. At $20 I'd cross my fingers and take the risk. Even knowing the quality of Omni products - owning two of them and upgrading them immediately since version 1 - I can't jump this shark. > > My reply: > > I think that's perfectly reasonable: you shouldn't spend that sort of money on faith, and we're not asking you to do so. > > Building an app worth $50 was simply our first challenge. (And while I think our design, engineering, and QA teams have done a great job so far, we've only reached our first 1.0 milestone: we're not done yet!) > > But having built that app, it's now our responsibility to demonstrate to your satisfaction that it's worth $50 of your money. We've started this process by posting screenshots and intro videos, but we have a lot more work to do on that front: we'll be publishing more videos and other information on our own web site, of course, but it would also help to have trusted third-party reviews, demo copies in retail stores, demo copies available for in-person demonstrations at user groups, and so on. > > So, no, please don't cross your fingers and spend your $50 completely on faith. Tell us what you need to be able to make an informed decision, and we'll do our best to help you reach one. (And if your informed decision is not to purchase the app, we'll understand!) > > Ken______ From cwalker at eaitek.com Mon Apr 5 06:46:03 2010 From: cwalker at eaitek.com (Clint Walker) Date: Mon Apr 5 06:54:22 2010 Subject: Price of OmniGraffle for iPad In-Reply-To: <4CE9A474-314F-4CAE-A0E5-1CF47C6F9E69@ttuhsc.edu> Message-ID: I guess I am confused why all the hoopla continues to grow. If you don't like the price, don't buy it until you see some reviews on it. If it is a good products the reviews will show it; if not the reviews will show that as well. Apple has just dropped another great product and we should all be smiling today. :-) On 4/4/10 2:47 PM, "Macdonald, Clint" wrote: > Mr. Case: > > This is the best, least hysterical reply I have heard to my query. Thanks! > > I look forward to being convinced that OmniGraffle.iPad is worth whatever you > charge for it. > > Best wishes, > Clint > > On Apr 4, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Ken Case wrote: > >> A really good point was raised on the forums, which I think bears repeating >> here. Forum user davidwb wrote: >> >>> You are asking me to spend $50 on a product completely on faith. There's no >>> demo, no lite version. The App store offers no money back guarantee. At $20 >>> I'd cross my fingers and take the risk. Even knowing the quality of Omni >>> products - owning two of them and upgrading them immediately since version 1 >>> - I can't jump this shark. >> >> My reply: >> >> I think that's perfectly reasonable: you shouldn't spend that sort of money >> on faith, and we're not asking you to do so. >> >> Building an app worth $50 was simply our first challenge. (And while I think >> our design, engineering, and QA teams have done a great job so far, we've >> only reached our first 1.0 milestone: we're not done yet!) >> >> But having built that app, it's now our responsibility to demonstrate to your >> satisfaction that it's worth $50 of your money. We've started this process by >> posting screenshots and intro videos, but we have a lot more work to do on >> that front: we'll be publishing more videos and other information on our own >> web site, of course, but it would also help to have trusted third-party >> reviews, demo copies in retail stores, demo copies available for in-person >> demonstrations at user groups, and so on. >> >> So, no, please don't cross your fingers and spend your $50 completely on >> faith. Tell us what you need to be able to make an informed decision, and >> we'll do our best to help you reach one. (And if your informed decision is >> not to purchase the app, we'll understand!) >> >> Ken______ > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From sergey.sergeevich.petrov at gmail.com Tue Apr 13 13:29:15 2010 From: sergey.sergeevich.petrov at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?0KHQtdGA0LPQtdC5INCf0LXRgtGA0L7Qsg==?=) Date: Tue Apr 13 13:29:21 2010 Subject: Proper shared objects Message-ID: <2E571172-9406-413A-9373-726672579E5B@gmail.com> Hi. Omnigraffle is one instrument on my Mac I love most. Nevertheless, there is few things I can't figure out. I will be very grateful for any help. Suppose you have two canvases with mockups of web pages on them. Suppose, you have same block on them, that represents header of web page (logo, menu, etc). Seems like job for shared layers, eh? Now, suppose, that you have footer as well. And length of this two pages is different. Is there any way to use same footer on both canvases, but with different positioning? In fact, question is a little bit wider: is there any way to have something like stencil library of building blocks, or "includes". Some way to define "block: list-with-suggest" and use it in different canvases. But not like stencil library ? when I change block definition, it should change everywhere (like with shared layers). --- Sergey Petrov From josh at uncleleron.com Tue Apr 13 14:23:39 2010 From: josh at uncleleron.com (Joshua Dickens) Date: Tue Apr 13 14:23:56 2010 Subject: Proper shared objects In-Reply-To: <2E571172-9406-413A-9373-726672579E5B@gmail.com> References: <2E571172-9406-413A-9373-726672579E5B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <05070B7B-BC05-49D4-B59E-7D38189BA95F@uncleleron.com> Sergey, The way I do this is to select the items you want as your shared object, then choose Edit > Copy As > PDF. Then paste the pdf into your document. This will place an image with your selected object(s) as its fill. What?s unique about this object is that it?s if you double-click it it will actual open the source OG objects for you to edit. Just make changes, then save and your objects will update automatically. It?s kind of like Smart Objects in Adobe Photoshop, if you?ve used those (though I think LinkBack support may pre-date Smart Objects :) Hope that helps, Josh On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:29 PM, ?????? ?????? wrote: > Hi. > > Omnigraffle is one instrument on my Mac I love most. Nevertheless, there is few things I can't figure out. I will be very grateful for any help. > > Suppose you have two canvases with mockups of web pages on them. Suppose, you have same block on them, that represents header of web page (logo, menu, etc). Seems like job for shared layers, eh? > > Now, suppose, that you have footer as well. And length of this two pages is different. Is there any way to use same footer on both canvases, but with different positioning? > > In fact, question is a little bit wider: is there any way to have something like stencil library of building blocks, or "includes". Some way to define "block: list-with-suggest" and use it in different canvases. But not like stencil library ? when I change block definition, it should change everywhere (like with shared layers). > > --- > Sergey Petrov > > > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From sergey.sergeevich.petrov at gmail.com Tue Apr 13 14:27:32 2010 From: sergey.sergeevich.petrov at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?0KHQtdGA0LPQtdC5INCf0LXRgtGA0L7Qsg==?=) Date: Tue Apr 13 14:27:46 2010 Subject: Proper shared objects In-Reply-To: References: <2E571172-9406-413A-9373-726672579E5B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <638384A5-44E5-468A-BA61-9FC33E997D90@gmail.com> Thanks a lot! I almost had this figured out by myself, but something kept me from trying :) Anyway, I'm looking forward to see something more obvious ("Components"?) in Omnigraffle 6.0. On Apr 14, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Joshua Dickens wrote: > Sergey, > > The way I do this is to select the items you want as your shared object, then choose Edit > Copy As > PDF. Then paste the pdf into your document. This will place an image with your selected object(s) as its fill. What?s unique about this object is that it?s if you double-click it it will actual open the source OG objects for you to edit. Just make changes, then save and your objects will update automatically. It?s kind of like Smart Objects in Adobe Photoshop, if you?ve used those (though I think LinkBack support may pre-date Smart Objects :) > > Hope that helps, > > Josh > > > On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:29 PM, ?????? ?????? wrote: > >> Hi. >> >> Omnigraffle is one instrument on my Mac I love most. Nevertheless, there is few things I can't figure out. I will be very grateful for any help. >> >> Suppose you have two canvases with mockups of web pages on them. Suppose, you have same block on them, that represents header of web page (logo, menu, etc). Seems like job for shared layers, eh? >> >> Now, suppose, that you have footer as well. And length of this two pages is different. Is there any way to use same footer on both canvases, but with different positioning? >> >> In fact, question is a little bit wider: is there any way to have something like stencil library of building blocks, or "includes". Some way to define "block: list-with-suggest" and use it in different canvases. But not like stencil library ? when I change block definition, it should change everywhere (like with shared layers). >> >> --- >> Sergey Petrov >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > --- ?????? ?????? From tburton at brahea.com Tue Apr 20 11:22:48 2010 From: tburton at brahea.com (Tom Burton) Date: Tue Apr 20 11:22:54 2010 Subject: OmniGraffle for iPad seems worth the price In-Reply-To: <20100405190007.069FA256B763@forums.omnigroup.com> References: <20100405190007.069FA256B763@forums.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: I won't be buying an iPad until my laptop dies or obsolesces, but after reading reviews for iWork and OmniGraffle for the iPad, I think $50 is a fair price for OmniGraffle. Here's what I think I've learned: iWork is aimed at users who are extremely price sensitive (who apparently value their own time at less than $2/hr), impatient, and planning to do very little in the product on an iPad. I'm not sure who these people are, but I'm not one of them. Based on reviews, only Numbers appeals to me, and not much. OmniGraffle seems to be aimed as users like me who expect to be able to do a lot, are willing to invest time and effort to learn how, and are willing to pay for enough functionality that one is not continually transferring back to a computer to do get things done. When the time comes, and the reviews hold up, I'll gladly fork over $50. On Apr 5, 2010, at 9:00 AM, omnigraffle-users-request@omnigroup.com wrote: I guess I am confused why all the hoopla continues to grow. If you don't like the price, don't buy it until you see some reviews on it. If it is a good products the reviews will show it; if not the reviews will show that as well. Apple has just dropped another great product and we should all be smiling today. :-) From akashj at packtpub.com Sun May 2 20:19:18 2010 From: akashj at packtpub.com (Akash Johari) Date: Sun May 2 20:19:07 2010 Subject: Reviewing OmniGraffle Diagrams: The Lost Guide Message-ID: <4BDE40B6.1090700@packtpub.com> Hi, I am a Technical Editor working with Packt Publishing. We are coming out with the book on " OmniGraffle Diagrams: The Lost Guide". I am looking for a *Technical Reviewer* to provide feedback on the content of the book. It would be of great help if you would be willing to take it up as this is your area of expertise. You were suggested to me by your colleague Brian. When people like yourself, work for us as technical reviewers, we can be sure that the content will be of the highest quality. I should point out that there is no payment for reviewing, instead you will receive full credit in the book (including a bio where you can put up a link to your website or blog) and you will receive two complimentary books: ? One copy of each book you review - see how what you've done makes you proud! ? A book of your choice from our catalog. For more details on Packt Publishing, visit http://www.packtpub.com/. Please let me know if this interests you, so that I can give you more details on technical reviewing and the book. -- Thanks and Regards, Akash Johari Technical Editor [ Packt Publishing ] MSN: _akashj@packtpub.com_ From jpage at omnigroup.com Wed May 5 11:17:21 2010 From: jpage at omnigroup.com (Joel Page) Date: Wed May 5 11:17:23 2010 Subject: OmniGraffle 5.2.3 beta 1 is now available Message-ID: We've made fixes to some pesky bugs that got missed during the development of OmniGraffle for iPad, and made some modifications to some of the built-in stencils, and added file settings for all exported OmniGraffle document types to better help getting your files over to the iPad. Full release notes and download links at the following URL: http://www.omnigroup.com/products/omnigraffle/download/#beta_link Cheers, Joel Page Product Manager, OmniGraffle The Omni Group From tingham at coalmarch.com Wed May 5 11:18:58 2010 From: tingham at coalmarch.com (Thomas Ingham) Date: Wed May 5 11:19:04 2010 Subject: OmniGraffle 5.2.3 beta 1 is now available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Boy that's one thing I'll certainly miss with the iPad; beta versions of kickass software. On May 5, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Joel Page wrote: > We've made fixes to some pesky bugs that got missed during the development of OmniGraffle for iPad, and made some modifications to some of the built-in stencils, and added file settings for all exported OmniGraffle document types to better help getting your files over to the iPad. > > Full release notes and download links at the following URL: > > http://www.omnigroup.com/products/omnigraffle/download/#beta_link > > Cheers, > > > Joel Page > Product Manager, OmniGraffle > The Omni Group > > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From marion at dickten.net Fri May 7 13:13:37 2010 From: marion at dickten.net (Marion Dickten) Date: Fri May 7 13:25:02 2010 Subject: thin measuring lines Message-ID: <4257C9D1-08AC-45BB-BF46-D6945409DBF8@dickten.net> Hi, I haven't been using Graffle for a long time and so far been editing old files, so please excuse me if this is a really stupid question. Today I've begun creating new files with OG 5.2.2, and at once I ran across a really odd thing. Distances between objects seem to be calculated automatically and shown in thin blue lines. One thing is that as far as I can see the values are not correct and another is that objects seem to want to align along those thin blue lines. This conflicts with my standard grid. What are those lines and where can I switch them off/on? Right now I only want the grid. I used an empty template to which I added a standard grid with automatic alignment and *metric* units, 1cm with 5 subdivision lines. (I wish that Omni added the possibility to choose unit systems to the general prefs in the Graffle menu. For a continental European like me there is no point at all in any other unit systems, and having to use a special template in order to avoid having to switch to metric units every time I create a new file is a bit unnatural.) Marion From chris.ridd at isode.com Mon May 10 07:40:16 2010 From: chris.ridd at isode.com (Chris Ridd) Date: Mon May 10 07:40:23 2010 Subject: thin measuring lines In-Reply-To: <4257C9D1-08AC-45BB-BF46-D6945409DBF8@dickten.net> References: <4257C9D1-08AC-45BB-BF46-D6945409DBF8@dickten.net> Message-ID: <4BE81AD0.4070107@isode.com> On 07/05/2010 21:13, Marion Dickten wrote: > Hi, > > I haven't been using Graffle for a long time and so far been editing old files, so please excuse me if this is a really stupid question. > Today I've begun creating new files with OG 5.2.2, and at once I ran across a really odd thing. Distances between objects seem to be calculated automatically and shown in thin blue lines. One thing is that as far as I can see the values are not correct and another is that objects seem to want to align along those thin blue lines. This conflicts with my standard grid. What are those lines and where can I switch them off/on? Right now I only want the grid. They're "Smart Guides", and you can disable them using the Arrange > Guides submenu. > I used an empty template to which I added a standard grid with automatic alignment and *metric* units, 1cm with 5 subdivision lines. > (I wish that Omni added the possibility to choose unit systems to the general prefs in the Graffle menu. For a continental European like me there is no point at all in any other unit systems, and having to use a special template in order to avoid having to switch to metric units every time I create a new file is a bit unnatural.) Create a new template. In the Canvas: Size inspector, set the ruler units to "cm". Save the template as "Metric.gtemplate" or something. Use the Template Chooser to make that template be the default. Cheers, Chris From bob.zimmerman at gmail.com Mon May 10 12:36:57 2010 From: bob.zimmerman at gmail.com (Bob Zimmerman) Date: Mon May 10 12:43:11 2010 Subject: iPad landscape vs. Portrait Message-ID: <6CDADE1C-49A8-4172-8E53-D6EFE5580C11@gmail.com> Is there a way to make an iPad Graffle document in landscape? It keeps coming up in portrait. Thank you. Sent from my iPad From jpage at omnigroup.com Wed May 19 11:16:04 2010 From: jpage at omnigroup.com (Joel Page) Date: Wed May 19 11:16:09 2010 Subject: OmniGraffle 5.2.3 beta 2 is now available Message-ID: <71F46ADF-BE2F-46BB-B965-5D66ED021270@omnigroup.com> We've added a couple of small fixes in this beta release, one that has to do with canvas names being incorrect on an export to HTML imagemap that was due to a different fix in beta 1, and B?zier lines should be back to normal, with the addtition of routing better according to their control handles when both endpoints are in the same location. The beta's at the bottom of the download page , as are the release notes, short as they are. Cheers, Joel Page Product Manager, OmniGraffle The Omni Group From pjp at omnigroup.com Wed May 19 16:36:57 2010 From: pjp at omnigroup.com (Paul Palinkas) Date: Wed May 19 16:37:05 2010 Subject: iPad landscape vs. Portrait In-Reply-To: <6CDADE1C-49A8-4172-8E53-D6EFE5580C11@gmail.com> References: <6CDADE1C-49A8-4172-8E53-D6EFE5580C11@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9E71D833-DD68-4429-AFC5-7701A4CF6AB8@omnigroup.com> On May 10, 2010, at 12:36 PM, Bob Zimmerman wrote: > Is there a way to make an iPad Graffle document in landscape? It keeps coming up in portrait. Thank you. You can set the canvas size in the info popover, in the canvas pane. You can enter a size in and turn off the auto-size feature to ensure rotation doesn't resize the canvas inadvertently. -- Sincerely, Paul Palinkas Support Ninja The Omni Group From waynefb at earthlink.net Thu May 27 12:39:00 2010 From: waynefb at earthlink.net (Wayne Brissette) Date: Thu May 27 12:39:03 2010 Subject: AppleScript support for Export? Message-ID: <8573579.1274989140729.JavaMail.root@mtwamui-sandhill.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I looked through the OG Pro dictionary and didn't see any option to export an image (only save). Am I missing something? Wayne From kc at omnigroup.com Sun May 30 11:36:59 2010 From: kc at omnigroup.com (Ken Case) Date: Sun May 30 11:37:02 2010 Subject: AppleScript support for Export? In-Reply-To: <8573579.1274989140729.JavaMail.root@mtwamui-sandhill.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <8573579.1274989140729.JavaMail.root@mtwamui-sandhill.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6EEE960B-395F-47BC-A036-DDAE41D14A02@omnigroup.com> On May 27, 2010, at 12:39 PM, Wayne Brissette wrote: > I looked through the OG Pro dictionary and didn't see any option to export an image (only save). Am I missing something? The "save" command is what you're looking for, though how to use it probably as obvious as it could be. Simply specify the file you want to save into, and OmniGraffle will export into the appropriate format based on its file extension: save front document in "/tmp/test.png" save front document in "/tmp/test.pdf" save front document in "/tmp/test.jpeg" save front document in "/tmp/test.vdx" -- this is Visio XML Hope this helps! Ken From kc at omnigroup.com Sun May 30 11:38:37 2010 From: kc at omnigroup.com (Ken Case) Date: Sun May 30 11:38:39 2010 Subject: AppleScript support for Export? In-Reply-To: <6EEE960B-395F-47BC-A036-DDAE41D14A02@omnigroup.com> References: <8573579.1274989140729.JavaMail.root@mtwamui-sandhill.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <6EEE960B-395F-47BC-A036-DDAE41D14A02@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <8015B8BA-AFC7-426F-9ECB-7B69DC1B0BDB@omnigroup.com> > The "save" command is what you're looking for, though how to use it probably as obvious as it could be. Sorry for the confusing sentence, I meant to say "...probably _isn't_ as obvious as it could be." Ken From waynefb at earthlink.net Sun May 30 20:19:20 2010 From: waynefb at earthlink.net (Wayne Brissette) Date: Sun May 30 20:20:03 2010 Subject: AppleScript support for Export? In-Reply-To: <8015B8BA-AFC7-426F-9ECB-7B69DC1B0BDB@omnigroup.com> References: <8573579.1274989140729.JavaMail.root@mtwamui-sandhill.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <6EEE960B-395F-47BC-A036-DDAE41D14A02@omnigroup.com> <8015B8BA-AFC7-426F-9ECB-7B69DC1B0BDB@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <5A87669A-4DCC-42CF-BA0F-94F52AFB49B5@earthlink.net> Cool! Thanks, now I have some work to do when I get home. Sent from my iPod On May 30, 2010, at 1:38 PM, Ken Case wrote: >> The "save" command is what you're looking for, though how to use it >> probably as obvious as it could be. > > Sorry for the confusing sentence, I meant to say "...probably > _isn't_ as obvious as it could be." > > Ken > From geoffrey.m.barnes at gmail.com Tue Jun 1 11:47:27 2010 From: geoffrey.m.barnes at gmail.com (Geoff Barnes) Date: Tue Jun 1 11:47:30 2010 Subject: Can I make global changes to the default file management options? Message-ID: Specifically, is there a way/place to tell Omni Graffle Pro 5 to: 1. save all files as flat files (vs. packages) 2. never include a quick look preview 3. always embed (vs. link) placed images Or, do I have to change these for every new file? Thanks! -- Geoff Barnes From jpage at omnigroup.com Tue Jun 1 12:46:57 2010 From: jpage at omnigroup.com (Joel Page) Date: Tue Jun 1 12:46:58 2010 Subject: Can I make global changes to the default file management options? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98268DD7-BD4E-4FE8-B5A4-A2A221196E30@omnigroup.com> You can create a new Template via the File Menu -> New Resource, set up how you want the file management handled (flat vs. package, preview, etc.), save, and then set that newly created Template as your default. Afterwards, all new documents should abide by those settings. Hope that helps, Joel On Jun 1, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Geoff Barnes wrote: > Specifically, is there a way/place to tell Omni Graffle Pro 5 to: > > 1. save all files as flat files (vs. packages) > 2. never include a quick look preview > 3. always embed (vs. link) placed images > > Or, do I have to change these for every new file? > > Thanks! > > -- > Geoff Barnes > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > From waynefb at earthlink.net Tue Jun 1 13:00:39 2010 From: waynefb at earthlink.net (Wayne Brissette) Date: Tue Jun 1 13:00:41 2010 Subject: Folder full of images you want to convert? Message-ID: <14623251.1275422439742.JavaMail.root@mtwamui-mongrel.atl.sa.earthlink.net> If you ever have a folder full of images you want to convert, this AppleScript my come in handy. Open this up in the AppleScript Editor and save it as an application. Then just drop a folder full of OG images (works on PDF, VDX, VSD, and graffle files. If OG ever supports opening svg or png this will also work for those). You can change the file types if you want. I wrote this for the one's I use and need to often convert. Wayne -- begin AppleScript on run -- the script was run or the application was double-clicked open (choose folder) as list end run on open DropFolder set TID to AppleScript's text item delimiters tell application "Finder" set filetype_selection to the button returned of (display dialog "What type of export?" buttons {".png", ".pdf", ".svg"} default button 1) set fullpath to POSIX path of DropFolder set filelist to every item of folder DropFolder repeat with CurrentFile in filelist set currentFileName to (name of CurrentFile) set AppleScript's text item delimiters to "." set currentFileName to text item 1 of currentFileName as string set AppleScript's text item delimiters to TID set currentFileName to currentFileName & filetype_selection as string set modfile to fullpath & currentFileName as string tell application "OmniGraffle Professional 5" open CurrentFile save front document in modfile close front document without saving end tell end repeat end tell end open -- end AppleScript From mtiernan at MIT.EDU Wed Jun 2 08:41:08 2010 From: mtiernan at MIT.EDU (Michael Tiernan) Date: Wed Jun 2 08:41:12 2010 Subject: Frame availability. Message-ID: <4C067B94.4050307@mit.edu> Has anyone come up with a way to create a frame that is bonded to the page? The "other" drawing program had frames you could drop on a page and they stick to the page even if it is resized. Has there been any progress in creating such an animal for OG? Thanks for your time all. From mtiernan at MIT.EDU Wed Jun 2 10:40:42 2010 From: mtiernan at MIT.EDU (Michael Tiernan) Date: Wed Jun 2 10:40:55 2010 Subject: Connecting lines to lines. Message-ID: <4C06979A.70707@mit.edu> I *know* I'm looking right at the solution to this but I can't find it. I'm attempting to make a network diagram. I have one line, the buss, going vertically (not that the direction matters here), and smaller lines of the same make up that are going horizontally between that buss and the systems. I'd like to make nice clean right angled connections so that when I cross the two networks, they hop-over each other but the parts of one network are attached and if I move something, the connection goes with it. Can anyone give me a pointer into the help docs for where I've got to read to learn this? Thank you for everyone's time. From jpage at omnigroup.com Wed Jun 2 11:14:08 2010 From: jpage at omnigroup.com (Joel Page) Date: Wed Jun 2 11:14:10 2010 Subject: OmniGraffle 5.2.3 release candidate 1 is now available Message-ID: Testing of OmniGraffle 5.2.3 beta 2 went well over the last two weeks, so we're ready to go for a release candidate. As is usual policy around here, we'll let the RC bake for a couple of weeks and then go final if nothing bad happens. Disk images and release notes covering the history of version 5.2.3 can be found at the bottom of the OmniGraffle download page . Joel Page Product Manager, OmniGraffle The Omni Group From waynefb at earthlink.net Wed Jun 2 11:14:54 2010 From: waynefb at earthlink.net (Wayne Brissette) Date: Wed Jun 2 11:14:56 2010 Subject: Connecting lines to lines. Message-ID: <27772708.1275502494522.JavaMail.root@mtwamui-sandhill.atl.sa.earthlink.net> If I understand your question correctly, I think you are looking for the line hops setting. That is in the Inspector. Look in the Line and Shapes area. There is a setting for line hops. There are several options to choose from there. Wayne -----Original Message----- >From: Michael Tiernan >Sent: Jun 2, 2010 1:40 PM >To: OmniGraffle Users >Subject: Connecting lines to lines. > >I *know* I'm looking right at the solution to this but I can't find it. > >I'm attempting to make a network diagram. > >I have one line, the buss, going vertically (not that the direction >matters here), and smaller lines of the same make up that are going >horizontally between that buss and the systems. > >I'd like to make nice clean right angled connections so that when I >cross the two networks, they hop-over each other but the parts of one >network are attached and if I move something, the connection goes with it. > >Can anyone give me a pointer into the help docs for where I've got to >read to learn this? > >Thank you for everyone's time. > From geoffrey.m.barnes at gmail.com Wed Jun 2 12:06:36 2010 From: geoffrey.m.barnes at gmail.com (Geoff Barnes) Date: Wed Jun 2 12:06:41 2010 Subject: Can I make global changes to the default file management options? Message-ID: Thanks, Joel. With regards to switching the save method, this is very helpful. Apparently, you can also modify the factory-shipped templates in the application bundle, and thereby accomplish the same thing. Any idea, anyone, on how to establish an embed-vs.-link default value for placed images? Thanks again, Geoff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 12:46:57 -0700 > From: Joel Page > Subject: Re: Can I make global changes to the default file management > options? > To: Omnigraffle Support > Message-ID: <98268DD7-BD4E-4FE8-B5A4-A2A221196E30@omnigroup.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > You can create a new Template via the File Menu -> New Resource, set up how > you want the file management handled (flat vs. package, preview, etc.), > save, and then set that newly created Template as your default. > > Afterwards, all new documents should abide by those settings. > > Hope that helps, > > Joel > > On Jun 1, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Geoff Barnes wrote: > > > Specifically, is there a way/place to tell Omni Graffle Pro 5 to: > > > > 1. save all files as flat files (vs. packages) > > 2. never include a quick look preview > > 3. always embed (vs. link) placed images > > > > Or, do I have to change these for every new file? > > > > Thanks! > > > > -- > > Geoff Barnes > > _______________________________________________ > > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > > > > > -- Geoff Barnes From john.gersh at jhuapl.edu Wed Jun 2 13:50:40 2010 From: john.gersh at jhuapl.edu (John Gersh) Date: Wed Jun 2 13:50:51 2010 Subject: Connecting lines to lines. In-Reply-To: <4C06979A.70707@mit.edu> Message-ID: Your description isn't entirely clear, but you need to do three things to get what I think you want: 1. Make sure that the bus line has ?Allow connections from lines? checked in the Properties: Connections inspector 2. Choose the Orthogonal line type for the lines from the bus to the system objects (Style: Lines and Shapes inspector) 3. Wayne Brissette has already mentioned setting the line hop style in the Style: Lines and Shapes inspector - John On 6/2/10 1:40 PM, "Michael Tiernan" wrote: > I *know* I'm looking right at the solution to this but I can't find it. > > I'm attempting to make a network diagram. > > I have one line, the buss, going vertically (not that the direction > matters here), and smaller lines of the same make up that are going > horizontally between that buss and the systems. > > I'd like to make nice clean right angled connections so that when I > cross the two networks, they hop-over each other but the parts of one > network are attached and if I move something, the connection goes with it. > > Can anyone give me a pointer into the help docs for where I've got to > read to learn this? > > Thank you for everyone's time. > From kc at omnigroup.com Wed Jun 2 16:13:34 2010 From: kc at omnigroup.com (Ken Case) Date: Wed Jun 2 16:13:38 2010 Subject: Can I make global changes to the default file management options? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6BC2626C-FDA1-4236-B286-B300A4FB6AC5@omnigroup.com> On Jun 2, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Geoff Barnes wrote: > Any idea, anyone, on how to establish an embed-vs.-link default value for > placed images? There isn't any way to change this default at this time: OmniGraffle always assumes you want to embed unless you hold down Control while dropping your source file onto the canvas. I could certainly see adding a default setting in a future release if people are interested, but I don't see any requests for this yet. If any of you would like to vote for this feature, please email our support ninjas at omnigraffle@omnigroup.com. Thanks! Ken From geoffrey.m.barnes at gmail.com Thu Jun 3 04:06:40 2010 From: geoffrey.m.barnes at gmail.com (Geoff Barnes) Date: Thu Jun 3 04:06:43 2010 Subject: Can I make global changes to the default file management options? In-Reply-To: <6BC2626C-FDA1-4236-B286-B300A4FB6AC5@omnigroup.com> References: <6BC2626C-FDA1-4236-B286-B300A4FB6AC5@omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <5AF2F424-1ADD-4222-AEB4-D338635DDDB0@gmail.com> Hi Ken, Thanks for your reply. I don't know that it would solve the problem I'm experiencing to be able to always link vs. embed. It would be helpful in a way, but the ideal solution would be a true embed, where the placed image's encoding is placed directly into the plist. For me. Here's why: We have a group of people sharing graffle files that we keep in version control. Long lists of images - whether embedded or linked - increase our incidence of conflicts like you wouldn't believe. Now, we train our team on correct use of version control, urge them to use command line tools instead of Versions in order to develop good habits, and generally spend too much time managing our UX repositories because A) people occasionally forget to go through the complexities required to prevent conflicts, and B) when a conflict arises, resolving it is harder with a relatively undifferentiated list of images than it is with a list of named images. We tried switching to flat files instead of packages, but - while that reduced the incidence of conflict - it made resolving conflicts even trickier. A true embed would do conflict incidence reduction just as well as flat files do, while preserving our ability to resolve conflicts item-by-item - at the plist level - when they arise. You can see why linking vs. embedding by default would only be a partial help in this case, and I'm not sure I'd push for control over that as a feature. But doing away with that directory of relatively undifferentiated img##.png files? That would be gold. Anyone else experience pain from this, or am I way off to the edge? Thanks again, Geoff On Jun 2, 2010, at 7:13 PM, Ken Case wrote: > On Jun 2, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Geoff Barnes wrote: > >> Any idea, anyone, on how to establish an embed-vs.-link default value for >> placed images? > > There isn't any way to change this default at this time: OmniGraffle always assumes you want to embed unless you hold down Control while dropping your source file onto the canvas. > > I could certainly see adding a default setting in a future release if people are interested, but I don't see any requests for this yet. If any of you would like to vote for this feature, please email our support ninjas at omnigraffle@omnigroup.com. > > Thanks! > Ken > From mtiernan at MIT.EDU Thu Jun 3 04:32:38 2010 From: mtiernan at MIT.EDU (Michael Tiernan) Date: Thu Jun 3 04:32:46 2010 Subject: Connecting lines to lines. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C0792D6.3090100@mit.edu> Thanks for everyone's replies. Well, sorta. I can engage the line hops but they don't seem to operate as I "expected". (I think the part that bugs me the most about this is that I *KNOW* I've done this correctly before but I can't figure out why I can't do it now. One of the other "effects" I'd expect is that if I move one of the lines, the others would move with it since they're attached. (Crux of my problem. How do I connect two lines at right angles to become "one"?) Since a graffle is worth a thousand words.... http://www.mit.edu/~mtiernan/Pictures/Untitled.jpg From elliott at yrl.co.uk Thu Jun 3 06:45:56 2010 From: elliott at yrl.co.uk (Elliott Roper) Date: Thu Jun 3 06:55:48 2010 Subject: Connecting lines to lines. In-Reply-To: <4C0792D6.3090100@mit.edu> References: <4C0792D6.3090100@mit.edu> Message-ID: On 3 Jun 2010, at 12:32, Michael Tiernan wrote: > Thanks for everyone's replies. > > Well, sorta. I can engage the line hops but they don't seem to operate as I "expected". (I think the part that bugs me the most about this is that I *KNOW* I've done this correctly before but I can't figure out why I can't do it now. > > One of the other "effects" I'd expect is that if I move one of the lines, the others would move with it since they're attached. > > (Crux of my problem. How do I connect two lines at right angles to become "one"?) > > Since a graffle is worth a thousand words.... http://www.mit.edu/~mtiernan/Pictures/Untitled.jpg That was a fun challenge. Make your hopping bus elements from non-intersecting lines. i.e. your green hash example is made from 12 lines not 4. Select them all and specify your hop types. Nothing happens of course, since there are no internal hops. Group it. Bring it to the front and drag the group over the red hash. You can of course do the same for other elements and have hours of innocent fun bringing different elements forward. Grouping nonintersecting elements with pre-arranged hoppiness should be generalisable. For bonus points, can you make a woven cloth illustration? Elliott Roper From mtiernan at MIT.EDU Thu Jun 3 09:09:27 2010 From: mtiernan at MIT.EDU (Michael Tiernan) Date: Thu Jun 3 09:09:33 2010 Subject: Connecting lines to lines. In-Reply-To: References: <4C0792D6.3090100@mit.edu> Message-ID: <4C07D3B7.3090807@mit.edu> On 6/3/10 9:45 AM, Elliott Roper wrote: > That was a fun challenge. Glad you enjoyed it! :) Your message sent me back to the drawing board.... canvas and I did some experiments. I think what I want to do is worded wrong. I *think* what I am trying to ask for is "How do I add a magnet to an object (stroke or shape) so that the magnet 'snaps to grid' for its location?" Now, I can draw a stroke and tie the small strokes off it together which will allow me to select the connected points and move them forward or backwards together. (Which *may* solve my problem.) From elliott at yrl.co.uk Thu Jun 3 10:35:16 2010 From: elliott at yrl.co.uk (Elliott Roper) Date: Thu Jun 3 10:35:50 2010 Subject: Connecting lines to lines. In-Reply-To: <4C07D3B7.3090807@mit.edu> References: <4C0792D6.3090100@mit.edu> <4C07D3B7.3090807@mit.edu> Message-ID: On 3 Jun 2010, at 17:09, Michael Tiernan wrote: > On 6/3/10 9:45 AM, Elliott Roper wrote: >> That was a fun challenge. > Glad you enjoyed it! :) > > Your message sent me back to the drawing board.... canvas and I did some experiments. > > I think what I want to do is worded wrong. > > I *think* what I am trying to ask for is "How do I add a magnet to an object (stroke or shape) so that the magnet 'snaps to grid' for its location?" > > Now, I can draw a stroke and tie the small strokes off it together which will allow me to select the connected points and move them forward or backwards together. (Which *may* solve my problem.) > Yep, that sort-of works, but there is nothing to grab onto the intersection and it falls apart rather easily with more than two lines at a point. A very sideways look at the problem might be to use very small shapes as glue blobs on the end of line segments. (Your "magnet" is the shape) If you specify "no magnets" and use the centre of the shape as the grid snapping point it works quite neatly. I suggest you choose a circle for the shape, draw while it is set to a manageable size, then shrink the lot so the diameter == line width, line colour as fill colour and no line width for the shape in one hit using the canvas -> selection tool when you are ready to publish. Remember all those molecular models you made in Chemistry 101? Elliott Roper From wiml at omnigroup.com Wed Jun 9 12:16:33 2010 From: wiml at omnigroup.com (Wim Lewis) Date: Wed Jun 9 12:16:35 2010 Subject: Can I make global changes to the default file management options? In-Reply-To: <5AF2F424-1ADD-4222-AEB4-D338635DDDB0@gmail.com> References: <6BC2626C-FDA1-4236-B286-B300A4FB6AC5@omnigroup.com> <5AF2F424-1ADD-4222-AEB4-D338635DDDB0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1B4C1DAE-2E85-4FB3-A5B8-15EBCF8E7221@omnigroup.com> On Jun 3, 2010, at 4:06 AM, Geoff Barnes wrote: > I don't know that it would solve the problem I'm experiencing to be able to always link vs. embed. It would be helpful in a way, but the ideal solution would be a true embed, where the placed image's encoding is placed directly into the plist. [....] > A true embed would do conflict incidence reduction just as well as flat files do, while preserving our ability to resolve conflicts item-by-item - at the plist level - when they arise. I'm not sure what the difference is between what you describe as "true embed" and flat files. Right now there are three ways a Graffle document can have an image: - a file package. The graffle document is a directory containing a plist file and a bunch of image files (.png or whatever). - a flat file. The graffle document is a single file, and any images are contained in the file as big base64-encoded blobs. - "linking", where the document has a relative path to the image file, but doesn't actually contain the image. Less conflict-prone, but if the file or image moves, the link breaks. The default behavior is to save a document as a package if it has any images, simply because images tend to be large, unchanging chunks of data and keeping them in their own files speeds up a number of things. > Anyone else experience pain from this, or am I way off to the edge? We try to make Graffle play well with version control (we use it with svn internally) but it's not a very often-requested feature. Bug reports describing how people are actually using OG with version control are useful. What sequence of events is it that's causing the most conflict pain for you? Two different users adding images and ending up with images assigned the same image####.png filename? From benoit.thomas at gameloft.com Thu Jun 10 10:44:31 2010 From: benoit.thomas at gameloft.com (Benoit Thomas) Date: Thu Jun 10 10:51:09 2010 Subject: Question about 3d-like shapes. Message-ID: <4C11247F.9000704@gameloft.com> Hello, I am trying to do a diagram which looks like this: http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/cocoa/conceptual/CocoaFundamentals/Art/systemlayers3.jpg But I am not able to do the 3d-like shapes correctly. I've know there is a shape which looks like this in the inspector, but when I stretch the box, the '3d effect' also stretch, which kind of looks weird when boxes are of different size. Is there anyway this effect can be achieve easily ? Thanks, Ben. From ruben at azuralis.no Thu Jun 10 11:42:55 2010 From: ruben at azuralis.no (Ruben Olsen) Date: Thu Jun 10 11:43:00 2010 Subject: Question about 3d-like shapes. In-Reply-To: <4C11247F.9000704@gameloft.com> References: <4C11247F.9000704@gameloft.com> Message-ID: <9C470174-33DC-4EE7-A575-8719A6105470@azuralis.no> Hi Benoit, You can create a "3D looking" shape by using an oblong, the pen tool and a line (all of these are available in the standard version of OG). Download a flat graffle file from http://www.open-voip.com/omnigraffle/thomas3d.graffle to see this in action. My boxes are a tad bit different than then one in your example. The reason for this is my boxes has equal length, while your example - the upper box is chorter than the one bellow. \Ruben --- Best regards, Ruben Olsen Author of OmniGraffle: The Lost Manual (will be published on Packt Publishing autumn 2010) On 10. juni 2010, at 19.44, Benoit Thomas wrote: > Hello, > > I am trying to do a diagram which looks like this: > > http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/cocoa/conceptual/CocoaFundamentals/Art/systemlayers3.jpg > > But I am not able to do the 3d-like shapes correctly. I've know there is a shape which looks like this in the inspector, but when I stretch the box, the '3d effect' also stretch, which kind of looks weird when boxes are of different size. > > Is there anyway this effect can be achieve easily ? > > Thanks, > Ben. > > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From jpage at omnigroup.com Wed Jun 16 11:10:06 2010 From: jpage at omnigroup.com (Joel Page) Date: Wed Jun 16 11:10:09 2010 Subject: OmniGraffle 5.2.3 is now available Message-ID: <5407F45B-30B8-45D2-9F89-D84558C2CF6C@omnigroup.com> After a beta testing period that got somewhat interrupted by WWDC and submitting OmniGraffle 1.2 for iPad to the App Store, we're happy to announce that the final versions of OmniGraffle and OmniGraffle Professional 5.2.3 are ready and available for download. For those not following the beta releases, version 5.2.3 fixes some important bugs with respect to B?zier lines and how they connect to shapes, fixes some important issues when exporting to other formats, and adds file management options when exporting to various OmniGraffle formats to better get your files working on the iPad. Find the disk images at our download page , and read up on the lengthy history of OmniGraffle at our historical release notes page . Joel Page Product Manager, OmniGraffle The Omni Group From akashj at packtpub.com Thu Jul 1 00:00:53 2010 From: akashj at packtpub.com (Akash Johari) Date: Thu Jul 1 00:00:29 2010 Subject: Reviewing OmniGraffle Essentials Message-ID: <4C2C3D25.20304@packtpub.com> Hi All, I am a Development Editor working with Packt Publishing. We are coming out with the book on " OmniGraffle Essentials". I am looking for a *Technical Reviewer* to provide feedback on the content of the book. It would be of great help if you would be willing to take it up as this is your area of expertise. I have come here with a request because this is the group where I can find experts in OmniGraffle. When people like yourself, work for us as technical reviewers, we can be sure that the content will be of the highest quality. I should point out that there is no payment for reviewing, instead you will receive full credit in the book (including a bio where you can put up a link to your website or blog) and you will receive two complimentary books: ? One copy of each book you review - see how what you've done makes you proud! ? A book of your choice from our catalog. For more details on Packt Publishing, visit http://www.packtpub.com/. Please let me know if this interests you, so that I can give you more details on technical reviewing and the book. -- Thanks and Regards, Akash Johari Development Editor [ Packt Publishing ] MSN: _akashj@packtpub.com_ From gfowler at garbec.us Wed Jul 7 22:46:58 2010 From: gfowler at garbec.us (Gary Fowler) Date: Wed Jul 7 22:47:00 2010 Subject: Bus Object Message-ID: I would like to purchase omnigraffle, but the lack of a bus object is a deal breaker for me. Are there any plans to implement support for bus objects? This object type is essential for diagramming networks; specifically creating layer 3 diagrams. You might recognize Visio's main network Bus object as the horizontal pipe with vertical line connectors. From net at canicula.com Thu Jul 8 01:15:09 2010 From: net at canicula.com (Ian Robinson) Date: Thu Jul 8 01:26:04 2010 Subject: Bus Object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <97B740A2-586B-4E00-8DCB-E5C87FD43026@canicula.com> Have a look at http://graffletopia.com/ to see if there is a stencil or palette with the object you need. Ian On 8 Jul 2010, at 06:46, Gary Fowler wrote: > I would like to purchase omnigraffle, but the lack of a bus object is a deal > breaker for me. > > Are there any plans to implement support for bus objects? > > This object type is essential for diagramming networks; specifically > creating layer 3 diagrams. > You might recognize Visio's main network Bus object as the horizontal pipe > with vertical line connectors. > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users -- Ian Robinson - Belfast - UK Soapbox - Twitter - From alan at polyphase.ca Thu Jul 8 08:58:05 2010 From: alan at polyphase.ca (Alan Hawrylyshen) Date: Thu Jul 8 08:58:10 2010 Subject: Bus Object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jul 7, 2010, at 22:46, Gary Fowler wrote: > I would like to purchase omnigraffle, but the lack of a bus object is a deal > breaker for me. > > Are there any plans to implement support for bus objects? > > This object type is essential for diagramming networks; specifically > creating layer 3 diagrams. > You might recognize Visio's main network Bus object as the horizontal pipe > with vertical line connectors. I think this isn't about the object form as much as it is behavior. If you extend a bus, it will not move the connected components proportionally -- as happens now. Can this behaviour be changed? If so, how? That would make me stop using mscgen and other ugly tools for my MSC / network diagrams :-) Alan -- Alan Hawrylyshen a l a n a t p o l y p h a s e d o t c a From elliott at yrl.co.uk Thu Jul 8 09:50:44 2010 From: elliott at yrl.co.uk (Elliott Roper) Date: Thu Jul 8 09:50:50 2010 Subject: Bus Object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9B999552-059C-460C-8CEE-A9E199626D38@yrl.co.uk> On 8 Jul 2010, at 16:58, Alan Hawrylyshen wrote: > > On Jul 7, 2010, at 22:46, Gary Fowler wrote: > >> I would like to purchase omnigraffle, but the lack of a bus object is a deal >> breaker for me. >> >> Are there any plans to implement support for bus objects? >> >> This object type is essential for diagramming networks; specifically >> creating layer 3 diagrams. >> You might recognize Visio's main network Bus object as the horizontal pipe >> with vertical line connectors. There is a sucky way to almost do what you want. Construct your bus as a chain of shapes linked by lines. (Stay with me, we'll disappear them at the end) Then you can use the object alignment and distribution inspector to stretch the bus and its connectors (the shapes) as evenly or not as you like. The selection inspector is your ally. If your working shapes are different colours on different busses you can operate on them independently if you wish. When your diagram is finished, you can mass shrink the shapes to invisibility. I use circles, set their stroke off, and right at the end, fill colour to line colour their radius to line width and "poof!". I originally did this kluge to make line hops play nicely with stacked meshes. It is easier to do than describe, so have a play. Layers and grouping adds hours of innocent fun and amazes onlookers. From wvh at omnigroup.com Thu Jul 8 10:44:21 2010 From: wvh at omnigroup.com (William Van Hecke) Date: Thu Jul 8 10:45:47 2010 Subject: Bus Object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jul 8, 2010, at 8:58, Alan Hawrylyshen wrote: > I think this isn't about the object form as much as it is behavior. > If you extend a bus, it will not move the connected components proportionally -- as happens now. > Can this behaviour be changed? If so, how? That would make me stop using mscgen and other ugly tools for my MSC / network diagrams :-) Would it work to use a long table of small objects? Then you could drag to add more cells to the end of the table without affecting the existing cells. From john at oram.com Thu Jul 8 11:48:16 2010 From: john at oram.com (John Oram) Date: Thu Jul 8 12:06:15 2010 Subject: Bus Object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F0EFCCF-10BE-4D67-98EB-C354F57FD70C@oram.com> I've been asking for perpendicular line connectors for 8 years. (Tangential connectors would be nice too.) And "cable ties" / "conduits". Oh, my kingdom for a cable tie! And while I'm at it, smart parallelograms (stretch shape in one axis, but theinternal angles stay constant). -j On 2010-07-08, at 8:58 AM, Alan Hawrylyshen wrote: > > On Jul 7, 2010, at 22:46, Gary Fowler wrote: > >> I would like to purchase omnigraffle, but the lack of a bus object is a deal >> breaker for me. >> >> Are there any plans to implement support for bus objects? >> >> This object type is essential for diagramming networks; specifically >> creating layer 3 diagrams. >> You might recognize Visio's main network Bus object as the horizontal pipe >> with vertical line connectors. > > I think this isn't about the object form as much as it is behavior. > If you extend a bus, it will not move the connected components proportionally -- as happens now. > Can this behaviour be changed? If so, how? That would make me stop using mscgen and other ugly tools for my MSC / network diagrams :-) > > Alan > > > -- > Alan Hawrylyshen > a l a n a t p o l y p h a s e d o t c a > > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > From gfowler at garbec.us Thu Jul 8 17:06:26 2010 From: gfowler at garbec.us (Gary Fowler) Date: Thu Jul 8 17:06:30 2010 Subject: Bus Object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:44 PM, William Van Hecke wrote: > On Jul 8, 2010, at 8:58, Alan Hawrylyshen wrote: > > I think this isn't about the object form as much as it is behavior. > > If you extend a bus, it will not move the connected components > proportionally -- as happens now. > > Can this behaviour be changed? If so, how? That would make me stop using > mscgen and other ugly tools for my MSC / network diagrams :-) > > Would it work to use a long table of small objects? Then you could drag to > add more cells to the end of the table without affecting the existing > cells._______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > The h3c site has a simple example.. http://www.h3c.com/portal/res/200806/03/20080603_627191_image004_607206_1285_0.gif A main line; from which connectors extend with one end permanently anchored to the main line, but not one spot. The mainline end of the connector changes position of the mainline in an attempt to remain perpendicular. If the connector is being pull to an object in a position that does not allow for the connector to remain perpendicular, then I'd like to see configurable behavior there. Either the connector should attempt to remain straight, or it should effectively extend the mainline and elbow to stay perpendicular. I've seen a version of the bus object in visio that has two connector 'spots'. When you grab a spot and pull, a connector is created. The effect is to have a bus object with infinite connectors, rather than the 5 or so visio tends to include by default. I need to be able to label the mainline. I tend to label them with subnet/mask, VLAN ID, and description; 192.168.0.0/24 VLAN 620 Front-end DMZ. A feature that visio does not have, but would be nice, is a label of the bus connector. I could place hostname and/or IPs on the connectors; www.site.com192.168.0.1. When I design/diagram networks, I create a layer 1/2 diagram for the switching, VLANs, physical connections, spanning-tree etc; and a layer 3 diagram for the routing, routing protocols.... Most of the time, the layer 3 is the most important for troubleshooting, thus some kind of bus object needs to be available. It seems to me that some of the functionality is already present based on the Video Tutorial - An Introduction to OmniGraffle 5. When the speaker creates the Org Chart, the connecting lines seem to appear like a bus.. I need a similar look, without the automatic re-arrangement behavior or the need to build an outline. Thoughts? From mtiernan at MIT.EDU Fri Jul 9 05:02:35 2010 From: mtiernan at MIT.EDU (Michael Tiernan) Date: Fri Jul 9 05:02:39 2010 Subject: Bus Object In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C370FDB.50703@mit.edu> This is some of the functionality that is needed for creating things like page frames that are "elastic" and can be stuck to the page regardless of the size without having to micro adjust the frame to fit properly. From gfowler at garbec.us Tue Jul 13 11:50:41 2010 From: gfowler at garbec.us (Gary Fowler) Date: Tue Jul 13 11:50:44 2010 Subject: Bus Object In-Reply-To: <4C370FDB.50703@mit.edu> References: <4C370FDB.50703@mit.edu> Message-ID: Is there a plan to create such a feature? To create more connector? A tutorial on creating connector? Should I hold off purchasing the product? From elliott at yrl.co.uk Tue Jul 13 15:36:46 2010 From: elliott at yrl.co.uk (Elliott Roper) Date: Tue Jul 13 15:36:50 2010 Subject: Bus Object In-Reply-To: References: <4C370FDB.50703@mit.edu> Message-ID: On 13 Jul 2010, at 19:50, Gary Fowler wrote: > Is there a plan to create such a feature? > > To create more connector? A tutorial on creating connector? If you followed my post from the day before yesterday, it should be pretty obvious how to add a connector using my sucky scheme. Drag one end of a line segment away from its 'connector' shape onto a spare connector shape. Drag a new line back to the first connector from there and line the whole lot up again with the align inspector. Did I mention snap to grid? > > Should I hold off purchasing the product? Nah, you need the practice. You will continually discover new uses for Graffle, from birthday cards to solving Sudoku to planning bathrooms. (I have used it for all three today, as well as for serious stuff) The only downside to Graffle is the slow realisation of how badly other peoples' software is flung together. From gfowler at garbec.us Wed Jul 14 19:02:55 2010 From: gfowler at garbec.us (Gary Fowler) Date: Wed Jul 14 19:02:58 2010 Subject: Bus Object In-Reply-To: References: <4C370FDB.50703@mit.edu> Message-ID: But until graffle has a bus object, I can't import and work on Visio network diagrams. When I import one of my visio diagrams, the bus objects are converted to a static graphic images. I can stretch the static image but I can't interact with it, make additional connections, etc. And as such, I can't import a Visio network diagram and save it back as a usable/maintainable Visio diagram. On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Elliott Roper wrote: > > On 13 Jul 2010, at 19:50, Gary Fowler wrote: > > > Is there a plan to create such a feature? > > > > To create more connector? A tutorial on creating connector? > If you followed my post from the day before yesterday, it should be pretty > obvious how to add a connector using my sucky scheme. Drag one end of a line > segment away from its 'connector' shape onto a spare connector shape. Drag a > new line back to the first connector from there and line the whole lot up > again with the align inspector. Did I mention snap to grid? > > > > Should I hold off purchasing the product? > Nah, you need the practice. > You will continually discover new uses for Graffle, from birthday cards to > solving Sudoku to planning bathrooms. (I have used it for all three today, > as well as for serious stuff) > > The only downside to Graffle is the slow realisation of how badly other > peoples' software is flung together. > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > From gfowler at garbec.us Tue Jul 20 08:21:47 2010 From: gfowler at garbec.us (Gary Fowler) Date: Tue Jul 20 08:21:50 2010 Subject: Bus Object In-Reply-To: References: <4C370FDB.50703@mit.edu> Message-ID: I noted that I forgot to include the list in my last reply.. But I do have a question for OmniGroup. Is there any interest in adding this feature/connector-type? On the road map? On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Gary Fowler wrote: > There are none. On graffletopia, someone imported the tube like bus > object from Visio, but it came in as a graphic. > > But again, when interacting with customers as a consultant, I need to the > ability to import existing visio diagrams, and save them back as > maintainable visio diagrams. I also need to be able to produce diagrams > and save them as visio for IT shops to maintain after I leave. > > Its clear this a missing feature, given that a imported visio diagram > converts bus objects to non-connected/unchangable images. > > >