Tips for outline imports from OmniOutliner

[Jeremy Reichman]

On 12/22/04 11:58 AM, "Greg Titus" <greg at omnigroup.com> wrote:

> On Dec 21, 2004, at 5:50 AM, Jeremy Reichman wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking for tips from people who are heavier users of the
>> OmniOutliner
>> export to OmniGraffle that I am. I really, really want to use this
>> feature
>> but every time I do, I feel like it doesn't meet my expectations.
>> 
>> I have some flow charts that I'd like to create but they seem to defy
>> my
>> ability to construct an outline that also works as a graffle.
> 
> Graffle treats Outliner imports as tree structures, which is great when
> you have a tree structure, as most outlines are, but isn't ideal for a
> flow chart. For quick entry of a flow chart, you might have better luck
> with the mouseless editing commands in Graffle Pro, which are intended
> for flow chart like graphs. Create a single desired shape to start,
> edit the text, and then press cmd-control-right arrow to create a copy
> of that shape off to the right, connected by a line (of the current
> line style), with the text already selected. Type in that shape's text,
> and
> then press cmd-control-right arrow again to create the next one. The
> four arrow keys with command and control held down create a connected
> shape in that direction (the distance is determined by the alignment
> settings), and the four arrow keys with just command held down move
> your selection to the next object in that direction.
> 
> This kind of thing is ideal for creating graphs with shapes in series
> (i.e. A->B->C->D) like for flow charts and waterfall diagrams. Since
> outlines are treated as trees, to get the same thing via Outliner
> import, you'd need to create a non-bushy, deep tree:
> * A
>     * B
>        * C
>           * D
> 
>> Right now, it seems like the one process that's worked for me is to
>> completely reverse my outlines and make them flow from most indented to
>> least. When this is imported into Graffle, I get a flowchart that at
>> least
>> has lines drawn between the correct objects. However, all the lines are
>> reversed (not too hard to correct, and I suppose I could change the
>> line
>> style in the Preferences to do that automatically) and the graffle
>> moves
>> from right to left (rather than left to right, if I'm forcing
>> hierarchy in
>> that direction).
> 
> I'm not sure why outlining in the opposite order would help? Outlines
> imported into Graffle always connect from parents to children. But if
> you prefer it that way, then you could just select-all after the
> import, reverse all the lines (via the Line inspector), and relayout
> (which will make the direction left-to-right if that is the current
> layout setting).
> 
>> So, I'm looking for tips on how to better create outlines that are
>> flowchartable (the more automatic, the better), and preferably ones
>> that
>> will also stand on their own as outlines (where mine don't). I haven't
>> found
>> much via Google.
> 
> Are you maybe preferring to treat outlines as a list rather than as a
> tree? I would be happy to whip up an AppleScript that did whatever sort
> of transformation from Outliner into Graffle that seems most natural to
> you, but I'm not certain what it is you are asking for. If you could
> give a couple example outlines and how you think they ought to be
> transformed into graphs, I might have a better idea what you are after.

I've tried to explain, with screenshots, what I'm doing at the URL below. I
apologize for not posting this earlier, but an Internet-less portion of the
holiday season interrupted me.

<http://www.jaharmi.com/outlinetoflowchart>

Beyond that, I can say that since I started this thread, I've picked up the
Mouseless Editing feature in Pro (where I previously hadn't tried it) and
I'm fairly happy with it. I have some feedback I'll send to the official
feedback address separately. Using Mouseless Editing and Automatic Layout
allowed to me a very large flowchart that would have been a real pain to
make by hand.

It doesn't exactly meet my *desire* to start with an outline document and
end up with a flowchart, but it meets my *need* to quickly mock up
flowcharts.

I can see the utility of having a multi-column OO document build into an OG
flowchart, where the columns could be used to show which objects are
connected. Perhaps this verges into the realm of a Graphviz file too much,
though ... I've done a little reading on that topic and it sounds quite
interesting. (Perhaps OO > Graphviz > OG could work out ... ?)

Thanks!


--
Jeremy