From support@omnigroup.com Fri Dec 14 13:26:41 2001 Received: from dragonite (dragonite.omnigroup.com [198.151.161.90]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA18571 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:26:41 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v475) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-3--6774443 Subject: Welcome to Omnigraffle-users From: David Kasprzyk To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-Id: <40FC4796-F0D9-11D5-9AF0-000502C99ADB@omnigroup.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri Dec 14 13:27:22 2001 X-Original-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:26:36 -0800 --Apple-Mail-3--6774443 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hello to all of you signed up on omnigraffle-users- My name is David Kasprzyk, and I take care of the majority of the OmniGraffle support mail here at Omni. I wanted to introduce myself and let you all know about our beta program for OmniGraffle 1.2. We are currently hosting the beta out of our sneakypeeks directory and it is a public beta for all of our OmniGraffle users. If you would like to download the beta version, builds can be found at http://www.omnigroup.com/ftp/pub/outgoing/sneakypeek/ Please report any bugs that you find to omnigraffle@omnigroup.com so that we may continue to improve our product. If you have any questions or comments at any time please let us know about them and we will be happy to assist you in any way. Thank you for your support, and please use omnigraffle-users as a great resource. I will be reading all the messages that are posted to this list so if you post a question, I'll make sure it gets answered. Sincerely, David Kasprzyk support@omnigroup.com --Apple-Mail-3--6774443 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Hello to all of you signed up on omnigraffle-users- My name is David Kasprzyk, and I take care of the majority of the OmniGraffle support mail here at Omni. I wanted to introduce myself and let you all know about our beta program for OmniGraffle 1.2. We are currently hosting the beta out of our sneakypeeks directory and it is a public beta for all of our OmniGraffle users. If you would like to download the beta version, builds can be found at 1A1A,1A1A,FFFFhttp://www.omnigroup.com/ftp/pub/outgoing/sneakypeek/ Please report any bugs that you find to omnigraffle@omnigroup.com so that we may continue to improve our product. If you have any questions or comments at any time please let us know about them and we will be happy to assist you in any way. Thank you for your support, and please use omnigraffle-users as a great resource. I will be reading all the messages that are posted to this list so if you post a question, I'll make sure it gets answered. Sincerely, David Kasprzyk support@omnigroup.com --Apple-Mail-3--6774443-- From scott@fuel5.com Sun Dec 16 21:50:23 2001 Received: from bungie.org (bungie.org [204.60.87.108]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA29777 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:50:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [165.123.152.164] (165.123.152.164) by bungie.org with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.0.2) for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:50:21 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1309 Subject: Feature idea From: Scott Brown To: Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Dec 16 21:50:59 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:50:20 -0500 Hi folks. I wrote a rather longish feature suggestion email to the OmniGraffle team a long while back, and never really heard anything about it one way or the other. No big deal - Omni's engineers are busy people. Anyhow, I thought I'd pass what I wrote around on this list, just to see if any of you have thoughts on the feature concept: "Hi, here's a little something that came to me today while I used your OmniGraffle and Outliner apps- I recently saved an OmniOutliner document and tried importing it into OmniGraffle just to see what the resulting graph looked like. It turned out (unsurprisingly) looking rather sprawling and unreadable, but only because I didn't have any options for how the imported outline looked as a graph. That got me thinking about how it would be useful if I had options on how the imported outline turned into a graph, whether it be horizontally oriented or vertically, read left to right or right to left, etc. Of course, the number of people who would buy licenses for both programs and use them in tandem is likely rather low, so implementing a complicated import options system doesn't make sense as a time expenditure. Then it hit me- what if you had a collapsible drawer on the left side of each document where you could start creating (or modifying, but we'll get there in a second) your graph as an outliner-like list? I've always thought that it would be easiest to build a hierarchical graph by typing hierarchical text and having the program handle the layout and spacing annoyances for me automatically, yet allowing me to make changes to the preconstructed layout as I wished if necessary. One of the biggest Graffle time sucks for me now, as a web designer, is when a client says that he wants a few new pages added to the flow chart here and there. I have to then respace my entire graph to accommodate the new additions and still be properly spaced and aligned. If the graph were displayed as a textual outline to the left of the pictorial graph, I could just add an item in the textual hierarchy and have the program handle the headache of spacing and alignment. Extending even further on this, you could have preselectable styles for graphs created in this manner - the user would pick the line style and box style to be used throughout each hierarchical graph he creates in the drop drawer. If he's editing an old graffle that has a style not in the list, the program could accommodate for this as best as it could, drawing the style of new objects from the other objects around it. Users could define their own line and geometric saved style presets to be included in the list in the drawer. When you think about it, constructing a hierarchical graph with ten items in the current Graffle program now takes a little while to do. If this feature were implemented, a user would be able to build or modify tremendously complicated, perfectly spaced hierarchical charts in thirty seconds flat, with the user's line, color, font, and shape settings already in place. Think about how long it would take to type a list like this in outliner (each dash "-" delineates a level of indentation): Main Entrance page -News Index --Current News Items --Archived News Items --Featured News items -Interviews Index --Current Interviews --Archived Interviews --Featured Interviews -Editorials Index --Current Editorials --Archived Editorials --Featured Editorials -Search content --Search results --Most popular searches -Site Map -Contact us --Editorial contact page --Managerial contact page --Staff Bios --Mailing information --Legal packet Now think about how long it would take to make the site map graph of this, starting at Main Entrance Page and branching out to the six children pages (News, Interviews, Reviews, Search, Sitemap, Contact), branching out to the sixteen children's children pages (Current News Items, Archived News Items, etc). And this is only a relatively small site with three levels (parent, child, child's child) and a few items under each section. The efficiency for making and editing hierarchical graphs would shoot through the roof with the addition of the feature described above." Any thoughts on this? Cheers, DSB -- _/_/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ fuel5.com | fuelfive.com | ph/fx: 215.619.0058 | scott@fuel5.com high octane design for print and web From hkaufman@mindspring.com Mon Dec 17 08:21:02 2001 Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.23]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA16015 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:21:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOH002JVXELVH@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:20:46 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: Using Omnigraffle To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: <0E93F6A3-F30A-11D5-A225-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 17 08:22:00 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:20:59 -0500 I am considering buying Omnigraffle for my work which consists of drawing simple block diagrams and electronic schematics. (I stress the word simple) . One problem I have is that where lines intersect I sometimes need to place a small black dot. (This indicates that there is an electrical connection between the 2 lines. If the lines cross without the dot then it usually means the lines are just crossing on the page, but not electrically connected). The problem is that the lines are drawn to the grid but when I create a small circle (about 1/4 the size of a grid box) I cannot place it so that the center of the dot sits exactly at the intersection of the lines (which is the same thing as the intersection of the grid lines). Any ideas as to how to do this, other than turning off snap to grid and nudging? BTW, nudging may not help, because it is not fine enough, I have found. Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From jaharmi@mac.com Mon Dec 17 10:50:09 2001 Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [204.179.120.89]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22549 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:50:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-relay02.mac.com (server-source-si02 [10.13.10.6]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id fBHIo47c017194 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:50:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com ([10.13.10.66]) by smtp-relay02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 relay02 Jun 21 2001 23:53:48) with ESMTP id GOI4BG00.MHT for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:50:04 -0800 Received: from localhost ([129.21.227.237]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 asmtp02 Jun 21 2001 23:53:48) with ESMTP id GOI4BF00.92K for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:50:03 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v475) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Any way to use gradient fills? From: Jeremy Reichman To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 17 10:51:00 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:50:04 -0500 I haven't been able to find a way to get gradient (linear, log, radial, etc.) fills in Graffle objects. Am I correct in assuming that gradient fills aren't possible in the program? Has that been a feature request already? If not, I'll make it. :) Actually, I find that whole color-picking interface to be unintuitive, but perhaps that's because I just have the wrong kind of intuition. Since other programs use the same interface, I'll assume that comes from the OS and I'll have to send Apple feedback about it. Graffle, with a few key feature additions, would replace my (generally limited) needs for a lot of other programs, including FreeHand and Fireworks. (It reminds me a little of the thrill I got with LightningDrawGX a few years ago.) And I'd rather be running something that is Mac OS X-native, too. Thanks! -- Jeremy Reichman From greg@omnigroup.com Mon Dec 17 14:32:21 2001 Received: from localhost (tauros.toon.omnigroup.com [209.180.166.93]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA05421; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:32:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Feature idea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v475) Cc: To: Scott Brown From: Greg Titus In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 17 14:33:59 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:32:17 -0800 Hi Scott, On Sunday, December 16, 2001, at 09:50 PM, Scott Brown wrote: > I recently saved an OmniOutliner document and tried importing it into > OmniGraffle just to see what the resulting graph looked like. It > turned out > (unsurprisingly) looking rather sprawling and unreadable, but only > because I > didn't have any options for how the imported outline looked as a graph. > That got me thinking about how it would be useful if I had options on > how > the imported outline turned into a graph, whether it be horizontally > oriented or vertically, read left to right or right to left, etc. Of > course, the number of people who would buy licenses for both programs > and > use them in tandem is likely rather low, so implementing a complicated > import options system doesn't make sense as a time expenditure. Actually, it would probably be a lot more work to reproduce all of the Outliner features people might want inside Graffle than it would be to add a bunch of options to the import feature. I don't think we're likely to add that kind of outlining ability to Graffle itself because I think we'd really rather make each of our apps as tightly focused and useful in its area as we can while also making them as interoperable as possible, instead of putting everything and the kitchen sink into each one. So - more options for outline import - but we wouldn't really want to add those options just to the outliner import feature probably. If you want better/different hierarchical layout options for outlines, other people probably want the same better/different hierarchical layout options for their Graffle documents that aren't from outlines. So this is a lot less than you were asking for, but it sounds to me like the main thing missing from your work flow at the moment is an additional automatic layout mechanism besides Graffle's existing hierarchical and force-directed layout tools. If you could just press a button to 'correctly' layout your graph, then it would be easy to either make the change in Outliner and re-import, or to add the couple additional shapes in Graffle. (It sounds like it would also be nice to have tighter integration between the two - live updating maybe? But that's mostly a different topic.) Would that get you most of the benefits you are looking for, do you think? If so (or even if not - it'd be useful either way), could you describe or send us samples of how your site maps are laid out, and what kind of geometric spacing options, et cetera, you think would be useful? Thanks, --Greg From greg@omnigroup.com Mon Dec 17 14:44:43 2001 Received: from localhost (tauros.toon.omnigroup.com [209.180.166.93]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA06041; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:44:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Using Omnigraffle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v475) Cc: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com To: Howard Kaufman From: Greg Titus In-Reply-To: <0E93F6A3-F30A-11D5-A225-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 17 14:45:02 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:44:41 -0800 Hi Howard, On Monday, December 17, 2001, at 08:20 AM, Howard Kaufman wrote: > I am considering buying Omnigraffle for my work which consists of > drawing simple block diagrams and electronic schematics. (I stress the > word simple) > . One problem I have is that where lines intersect I sometimes need to > place a small black dot. (This indicates that there is an electrical > connection between the 2 lines. If the lines cross without the dot > then it usually means the lines are just crossing on the page, but not > electrically connected). The problem is that the lines are drawn to > the grid but when I create a small circle (about 1/4 the size of a grid > box) I cannot place it so that the center of the dot sits exactly at > the intersection of the lines (which is the same thing as the > intersection of the grid lines). Any ideas as to how to do this, other > than turning off snap to grid and nudging? > BTW, nudging may not help, because it is not fine enough, I have > found. Well, the existing Graffle way to do this would be to make four 'wire' segments instead of two. Make your black dot first, then draw lines from their origin to the dot, then from the dot to the destination. The way you are doing things now, your dot isn't actually connected to anything so if you move either end of the connection and thus the 'wires' move, the crossing point will change, but the dot will still be in the old location. The disadvantage of doing things the way I'm suggesting is that the line isn't necessarily going to be straight any more, since the two segments can go in different directions. I don't know if that is an issue for you or not. It does seem like it would be kind of a cool feature to select a couple lines and have some kind of tool for 'insert a shape where these lines intersect' that would automatically split the lines in two and reconnect them to the new shape.... --Greg From mrmojorising@mac.com Mon Dec 17 14:46:23 2001 Received: from femail40.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail40.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.34]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA06111 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:46:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [24.7.117.221] by femail40.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20011217224621.XHLV10476.femail40.sdc1.sfba.home.com@[24.7.117.221]>; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:46:21 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1331 Subject: Re: Using Omnigraffle From: "Robert A. Blum" To: Howard Kaufman , Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0E93F6A3-F30A-11D5-A225-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 17 14:47:01 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:48:59 -0500 Howard, Hold don the shift key and use the arrows to nudge objects...this will be significantly more precise and will give you the result I think you want. Also, use the zoom tool...it is much easier to see objects in relation to gridlines and to reposition them when you zoom in. Enjoy, Rob > I am considering buying Omnigraffle for my work which consists of drawing > simple block diagrams and electronic schematics. (I stress the word simple) > . One problem I have is that where lines intersect I sometimes need to > place a small black dot. (This indicates that there is an electrical > connection between the 2 lines. If the lines cross without the dot then it > usually means the lines are just crossing on the page, but not electrically > connected). The problem is that the lines are drawn to the grid but when > I create a small circle (about 1/4 the size of a grid box) I cannot place > it so that the center of the dot sits exactly at the intersection of the > lines (which is the same thing as the intersection of the grid lines). Any > ideas as to how to do this, other than turning off snap to grid and nudging? > BTW, nudging may not help, because it is not fine enough, I have found. > > Regards, > Howard Kaufman > Lectrosonics > (516) 785-6211 > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From greg@omnigroup.com Mon Dec 17 14:51:56 2001 Received: from localhost (tauros.toon.omnigroup.com [209.180.166.93]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA06258; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:51:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Any way to use gradient fills? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v475) Cc: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com To: Jeremy Reichman From: Greg Titus In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 17 14:52:02 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:51:54 -0800 Hi Jeremy, On Monday, December 17, 2001, at 10:50 AM, Jeremy Reichman wrote: > I haven't been able to find a way to get gradient (linear, log, radial, > etc.) fills in Graffle objects. Am I correct in assuming that gradient > fills aren't possible in the program? We don't have gradient fills in Graffle 1.1, but we do have linear and radial gradient fills in Graffle 1.2. If you'd like to try an early beta of Graffle 1.2, go to http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omniweb/sneakypeek/ (yes, it's a page about OmniWeb, but the link on that page to go to our 'sneakypeek' ftp site also has a Graffle disk image in there.) > Has that been a feature request already? If not, I'll make it. :) Yes, it has. :-) > Actually, I find that whole color-picking interface to be unintuitive, > but perhaps that's because I just have the wrong kind of intuition. > Since other programs use the same interface, I'll assume that comes > from the OS and I'll have to send Apple feedback about it. Yes, it's the standard OS X color panel. But maybe we could do more on the color-picking front - are there specific suggestions you have for improvements? > Graffle, with a few key feature additions, would replace my (generally > limited) needs for a lot of other programs, including FreeHand and > Fireworks. (It reminds me a little of the thrill I got with > LightningDrawGX a few years ago.) And I'd rather be running something > that is Mac OS X-native, too. Feel free to suggest the other key feature additions as well. Thanks! -Greg From hkaufman@mindspring.com Mon Dec 17 16:10:53 2001 Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.23]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA09277; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:10:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOI00CTMJ5P57@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:10:38 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: Re: Using Omnigraffle In-reply-to: <640184E9-F349-11D5-B5F3-00306571CE92@omnigroup.com> To: Kevin Steele Cc: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 17 16:10:59 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:10:49 -0500 Thanks to all for the tips. I did get what I wanted and here is how: I set the grid to a very small increment, I think .01 inches. (It didn't allow that but defaulted to something quite small). Then I drew a circle exactly 1 grid unit in diameter. Then I filled it black. After changing the grid to something more normal, like .125 in. I was able to move the "dot" to the intersection of the lines I needed with the "align centers to grid" and nudging. Now, how to use this in a practical way? I copied the dot to a palette so I wouldn't have to keep creating it in this way. But when I view the palette and try to select it it is very difficult because of it's small size. Any ideas how to make this convenient? In a typical drawing I might have to use the dot up to 100 times. (How about a "DOT" tool? select that tool and point and click and voila, a dot). Thanks to all! Howard On Monday, December 17, 2001, at 06:54 PM, Kevin Steele wrote: > Hi Howard, > > There's a button on the Align info pane that will align the center of an > object to the grid. As long as your lines are drawn to the grid, this is > probably the easiest way to get what you want. > > If you use the mouse to move the object, it aligns the edges to the grid > as you move, but if you use the arrow keys to move the object, it will > move in grid increments (shift-arrow moves in pixel increments). > > - Kevin > > On Monday, December 17, 2001, at 08:20 AM, Howard Kaufman wrote: > >> I am considering buying Omnigraffle for my work which consists of drawing >> simple block diagrams and electronic schematics. (I stress the word >> simple) >> . One problem I have is that where lines intersect I sometimes need to >> place a small black dot. (This indicates that there is an electrical >> connection between the 2 lines. If the lines cross without the dot then >> it usually means the lines are just crossing on the page, but not >> electrically connected). The problem is that the lines are drawn to the >> grid but when I create a small circle (about 1/4 the size of a grid box) >> I cannot place it so that the center of the dot sits exactly at the >> intersection of the lines (which is the same thing as the intersection of >> the grid lines). Any ideas as to how to do this, other than turning off >> snap to grid and nudging? >> BTW, nudging may not help, because it is not fine enough, I have found. >> Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users >> >> > From hkaufman@mindspring.com Mon Dec 17 16:20:05 2001 Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.31]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA09592; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:20:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOI005ZRJLFPX@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:20:03 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: Re: Using Omnigraffle In-reply-to: <640184E9-F349-11D5-B5F3-00306571CE92@omnigroup.com> To: Kevin Steele Cc: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 17 16:20:59 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:20:00 -0500 I thought I'd share my dilemma in a bit more detail. I draw block diagrams and schematics of audio visual systems. These are not super complicated, but there are many shapes and lines on the page and to do it quickly is the trick. I used to do it on a PC, (excuse the word!) with a really nice diagramming program called VISIO. I have moved now to a MAC using OS 10.1 and can't really find the equivalent program. I've tried Concept Draw and it is close, but that program has some serious flaws as far as accuracy. The developers have acknowledged the problem for a long time now, but never fix it. So as far as I'm concerned it's not usable for my work. I also tried using the drawing module of Appleworks and it almost works but it too has problems keeping lines "on the grid" all the time. The new MS Office programs like Word have a pretty nice drawing module, but many things about it are way too frustrating. So when I saw Omnigraffle I thought it would be quite close to what I need, and I'm now exploring it to see if I can really get my work done with it in an efficient manor. This listserve is very encouraging and I hope to work through all of these issues in the next few days so I can purchase it. If you can think of anything that makes block diagram drawing easier with Omnigraffle, I'm all ears. I realize it may not have been created exactly with my needs in mind. But anyway it really seems close. In fact the 1.2 beta is even nicer, except that it has a bug which causes lines to stray off the grid as you draw them. I know Omnigroup is aware of it and I really look forward to trying the next beta! So thanks again for all of your help. Howard On Monday, December 17, 2001, at 06:54 PM, Kevin Steele wrote: > Hi Howard, > > There's a button on the Align info pane that will align the center of an > object to the grid. As long as your lines are drawn to the grid, this is > probably the easiest way to get what you want. > > If you use the mouse to move the object, it aligns the edges to the grid > as you move, but if you use the arrow keys to move the object, it will > move in grid increments (shift-arrow moves in pixel increments). > > - Kevin > > On Monday, December 17, 2001, at 08:20 AM, Howard Kaufman wrote: > >> I am considering buying Omnigraffle for my work which consists of drawing >> simple block diagrams and electronic schematics. (I stress the word >> simple) >> . One problem I have is that where lines intersect I sometimes need to >> place a small black dot. (This indicates that there is an electrical >> connection between the 2 lines. If the lines cross without the dot then >> it usually means the lines are just crossing on the page, but not >> electrically connected). The problem is that the lines are drawn to the >> grid but when I create a small circle (about 1/4 the size of a grid box) >> I cannot place it so that the center of the dot sits exactly at the >> intersection of the lines (which is the same thing as the intersection of >> the grid lines). Any ideas as to how to do this, other than turning off >> snap to grid and nudging? >> BTW, nudging may not help, because it is not fine enough, I have found. >> Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OmniGraffle-Users mailing list >> OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users >> >> > From jaharmi@mac.com Tue Dec 18 13:36:51 2001 Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [204.179.120.89]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA00101 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-relay02.mac.com (server-source-si02 [10.13.10.6]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id fBILal7c011504 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:36:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com ([10.13.10.66]) by smtp-relay02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 relay02 Jun 21 2001 23:53:48) with ESMTP id GOK6PB00.HII for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:36:47 -0800 Received: from acd168a-040.rit.edu ([129.21.168.40]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 asmtp02 Jun 21 2001 23:53:48) with ESMTP id GOK6PA00.L0D for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:36:46 -0800 Subject: Experience with gradient fills in Graffle 1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v475) From: Jeremy Reichman To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <553EC622-F3FF-11D5-AB99-0050E485AF48@mac.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by omnigroup.com id NAA00101 Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue Dec 18 13:37:03 2001 X-Original-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:36:44 -0500 Okay, I downloaded the sneakypeek version of Graffle (1.2 v1) and I'm instantly seeing weirdness with the gradient fills. They are not working as I expect them to, so I don't know if my expectations are in line with what the program can do. I will continue to try them out, but here is my initial report: What I'm doing -------------- I drag a rectangle from a palette into the drawing area. I fill it with a color. I then turn on a linear gradient fill and change the angle. There are a lot of bands on the screen, so I change from thousands to millions in my display setup. (I'm running on an older PowerBook G3 Lombard/400, and since I don't get any appreciable degree of video acceleration from the stock ATI Rage Pro, I tend to run in fewer colors to speed up the whole OS X experience.) Since that doesn't seem to help the banding, I begin playing with the Steps slider in the Info palette. (I don't think any of my other Classic applications ask me about the number of steps in my gradients. Hm.) I then go to the Color palette and slide the Opacity slider, to make my object translucent. I drop a rounded corner rectangle behind my original rectangle and then color the new shape. I want to be able to see it behind my gradient-filled object, so I send the new object to the back with Send to Back. Finally, I switch the first rectangle's gradient from linear to radial. What really happens ------------------- The gradients are okay, but not quite what I'd expect, having seen other graphics programs. Maybe I compare too much with Fireworks (which is after all a much more expensive product), but that is now my baseline for any sort of graphic program. I need to play with the number of steps to get results I find appealing. Between switching to millions and increasing the number of steps in the gradient to 100, my machine is *much* slower in Graffle. There is noticeable lag as I drag either rectangle around. I guess this is explainable, but I wish it weren't the case. The shadow definitely obscures the object behind a transparent object. To really use transparency fully, I needed to turn off the shadow on the topmost object. The Opacity slider does not appear to affect the transparency of the shadow at all; nor could I find a way to do that. (Actually, transparent shadows and natural/fading shadows would be on my feature wishlist; they are something I really like about Macromedia Fireworks and miss in Graffle.) Switching the gradient from linear to radial ignored my transparency settings; I was no longer able to see the backmost rectangle through the topmost (gradient filled) one. The setting in the Color palette remained at its previous mark (say, 10%) but it didn't look like it was being honored. What I expect ------------- Please note that I'm not unhappy with Graffle when I list these expectations. (Rather, I think I'm getting my money's worth already.) I'm just listing what I, as a user, expect when I encounter an OS X program that does gradient fills. I expect that, being an OS X program, the gradient fills in Graffle will blow me away with their utter coolness, the way most things in OS X do. I expect that Graffle will remain as fast to use as it was before gradient fills came along. I don't expect it to be really fast, since I have come to expect very little speed from OS X. Still, running OS X is very appealing, and it's even more appealing to have a cool native drawing program ... rather than having to launch Classic all the time to run something like Fireworks. I expect that I'll be able to clearly see one rectangle behind the other when I set the top one (gradient-filled) to be transparent -- no matter what gradient type or shadow I use. I expect that I'll be able to switch between different kinds of gradients without causing transparency and other effects to be lost. I also expect that I'd be able to set the transparency level of the shadow. Failing that, I'd like a shadow that wouldn't obscure objects behind its object. My environment -------------- Below is an Apple System Profiler report describing my environment for Graffle: Report Created:12/18/2001 at 4:33:53 PM Version of ASP that generated this report = 2.7 (note:this string only shows up in pre-final or debug versions) Software overview Serial number: Not applicable Mac OS overview System: Mac OS X 10.1.1 (5M28) Note: No startup disk was selected. Memory overview Built-in memory: 384 MB Number of empty RAM slots: 0 () Location Size Memory type J3/BOTTOM 128 MB J1/TOP 256 MB Backside L2 cache: 1 MB Hardware overview Machine ID: 406 Model name: PowerBook G3 series Keyboard type: PowerBook G3 series Keyboard with Inverted-T Processor info: PowerPC G3 (3.0) Machine speed: 400 MHz Production information ROM revision: Boot ROM version: Serial number: -1-1 Software bundle: Not applicable Sales order number: Not applicable -- Jeremy Reichman From hkaufman@mindspring.com Wed Dec 19 05:00:24 2001 Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.4]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA00232 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 05:00:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOL00J5BDDVCD@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:58:43 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: The "DOT" trick To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: <1CCD9AAA-F480-11D5-957F-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 19 05:00:58 2001 X-Original-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:58:35 -0500 I found a nice way to make placing my dots easier. (If you recall my recent posts). First I create the dot by setting the grid to .01 in. (Actually this is smaller than what the program allows, so it defaults then to something like .0277). This is necessary to get the circle small enough. Then I draw another larger circle around the dot so that the dot is exactly at the center of the larger circle. I then made the line of the larger circle invisible (no line), and groupd the line and the dot. I saved that new shape to a palette. Now it's easy to select the tiny dot since there is an invisible and larger circle around it. It makes it easer to move around the page too. Before this, the dot was fine but it was very hard to select, center, and move around, since it was so tiny. Centering is easier since the larger circle is what is snapped to the grid and that is sized so the dot ends up exactly at the intersection of the grid lines. Also, with the larger invisible circle I can easily drag the size of the dot to make it slightly larger, if needed. Thanks again to all who helped me with this issue. Time to register! Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From support@omnigroup.com Wed Dec 19 13:54:47 2001 Received: from dragonite (dragonite.omnigroup.com [198.151.161.90]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA21907; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:54:45 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v475) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Reporting on all of your issues - (Sorry I'm late) From: David Kasprzyk To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com, Howard Kaufman , Scott Brown , Jeremy Reichman Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <03AEB7F4-F4CB-11D5-AB52-000502C99ADB@omnigroup.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 19 13:55:03 2001 X-Original-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:54:45 -0800 Hello to Howard, Jeremy, Robert, Scott and all of the other OmniGraffle-Users: First I'm sorry I haven't been able to respond to all of your messages recently. I had all my finals Monday through today so I've been away from work and studying instead. It feels really good to be done however, and now I can get back to work. Since I have a large amount of mail messages that you guys sent, I figured I'd make a single email and respond to all of your issues in it. So I'll start with Mr. Kaufman's 'Dot' issue. First, I'm glad that you were able to create a usable palette item by adding the invisible circle in the back of the dot. Another thing that I thought of that might be useful would be if you grouped the dot with a line instead of the circle. You could have a couple of options; a line with one dot, a line with 2 dots, a chain of lines and dots to some set length, etc. Then when you need a new line, simply drag off the line/dot combination that you need from the palette. I will also be filing a request for either a dot creation tool or a feature allowing you to insert a shape along a line. I think that either of these could be a very use tool within OmniGraffle, but we'll see what our programmers decide. Next, I'll focus on Mr. Reichamn's gradient issue. First, let me say that I hadn't played around much with the gradients in Graffle 1.2, but I had noticed problems with getting a radial blur to become transparent. We after testing them out further, I have discovered several things. The amount of transparency needed for a linear and radial blur is not the same. While I could see the background at say 30% on linear, I had to go to around 5% transparency with the radial blur. So it seems that our opacity values have a different effect for each of the gradient types. I don't think this is reasonable and will be bring this up with our programmers. Second, I also found that when dragging a gradient image it will lag quite a bit with a large number of gradient steps. I'm not quite sure if this can be improved, but in the meantime, try setting your gradient steps way down until you've completed your overall layout of the shapes. Then go ahead and increase the step to make it look better. Finally, one idea I thought might be useful, would be to add a slider to allow you to make one color more prominent than the other, not always 50/50. Would this be useful to anyone? If so, please let me know and I'll post the idea into our database. With regards to Mr. Brown's issue, if you have a description or an example of the layout that you would like or any other options you'd like to see, please send them in and I'll make sure that they get passed on to our programmers, and they can look into adding them in a latter build. As always, please post any ideas or comments and I will get to them, usually quicker than recently. Thanks for understanding. Sincerely, David Kasprzyk support@omnigroup.com Join the OmniGraffle Users List http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From khr@earthlink.net Wed Dec 19 15:09:24 2001 Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA25630 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:09:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from evrtwa1-ar4-004-155.elnk.dsl.gtei.net ([4.35.4.155]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Gpps-0000Bs-00 for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:09:16 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1331 Subject: Re: OmniGraffle-Users digest, Vol 1 #3 - 8 msgs From: Robert Westmoreland To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200112192003.MAA10599@lists> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 19 15:10:01 2001 X-Original-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:09:14 -0800 Let me second that motion! Live updating would make me ecstatic :-) That way, I could concentrate on the structure of the tree that I'm building in OmniOutliner, while getting instant visual feedback from OG. -- Robert (PS. If this were the OO mailing list, I would say something about this being a giant step closer to the dream of making OO like Symantec's discontinued app More. But it's not, so I won't.) > > Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:32:17 -0800 > Subject: Re: Feature idea > Cc: > To: Scott Brown > From: Greg Titus > > It sounds like it would also be nice to > have tighter integration between the two - live updating maybe? From hkaufman@mindspring.com Wed Dec 19 16:12:47 2001 Received: from mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.22]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA29604; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:12:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOM00E458L7OT@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:12:43 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: Re: Reporting on all of your issues - (Sorry I'm late) In-reply-to: <03AEB7F4-F4CB-11D5-AB52-000502C99ADB@omnigroup.com> To: David Kasprzyk Cc: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: <4A7DFCC6-F4DE-11D5-957F-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 19 16:13:01 2001 X-Original-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:12:44 -0500 > First, I'm glad that you were able to create a usable palette item by > adding the invisible circle in the back of the dot. Another thing that I > thought of that might be useful would be if you grouped the dot with a > line instead of the circle. You could have a couple of options; a line > with one dot, a line with 2 dots, a chain of lines and dots to some set > length, etc. Then when you need a new line, simply drag off the line/dot > combination that you need from the palette. > > I will also be filing a request for either a dot creation tool or a > feature allowing you to insert a shape along a line. I think that either > of these could be a very use tool within OmniGraffle, but we'll see what > our programmers decide. That's all good stuff to think about. I like my solution because in my drawings I have many lines drawn before I know that I need the dot, so it' s hard to guess ahead of time where the dot may go. But I can also see times that having the dot on a line already might be useful. One of the reasons I've been posting about the dot issue is my way of testing both you guys as the developers and the user community to see how responsive you all are. So now I can report that you all get a big "A" grade. I've had too many experiences with the bigger companies not being at all responsive and acting as if they were the greatest thing since sliced bread, even thought they had so many bugs. So in the next day or two I'll definitely get out my wallet and register, so I can actually create a whole drawing and build up some pallettes. Thanks again! Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From hkaufman@mindspring.com Sat Dec 22 07:40:28 2001 Received: from mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.46]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA06117 for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2001 07:40:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOR00KB24VD6M@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Sat, 22 Dec 2001 10:40:26 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: In a complaining mood To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: <38300444-F6F2-11D5-9036-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Dec 22 07:40:58 2001 X-Original-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 10:40:26 -0500 Every time I reach for my wallet to register OG I run into issues that make me doubt the purchase. I realize the reason is because I'm trying to use OG to do drawings that it wasn't really designed for. Here are a jut a few of my problems: I create a lot of shapes that have lot's of text objects interior to them. I suppose for charts it's very convenient that you can click anywhere inside a shape to select it, but it really makes it hard to select the text within the shape. It isn't too hard to select a single text item, but it' s impossible to select multiple text items if they are within the shape boundaries. You have to shift click every one of them. Here's a another behavior that is making me nuts: Create a line. Show the head label and remove the fill. Now use the yellow dot marker (sorry I don't know what you call it) to move the position of the text so it is to the left of the line and in the clear. This is really great, it identifies the line in a way I used to have to do with a separate line and a separate text object. And they stay together if you move the line which is also really cool. But here's the problem. If you try to edit the label when it is to the left of the line and in the clear, it loses it's orientation and becomes vertical text instead of horizontal and you have a pain to get it back to what you had before the edit. Is that a bug? Another text problem: When you create a text object it doesn't align to the grid lines, it sits above or below the grid lines. Since I use text objects to identify a line, I need it to be centered with the line. You can do that of course with the command Align To centers in the grid Info pane, but you must do that for every single text object you create, every single time. It should be a preference you can set for all text you create. I suppose these are the most important problems I have found, but there are others I'll save for another posting. So I hope I'm not asking for too much here. I understand OG is not very expensive and is intended for other types of drawings than I am creating. The problem is that it's a really nice looking environment and is almost just what I need. There are a lot of really cool features too! But I'm trying to massage it into doing what I want without too many extra mouse clicks and carpal tunnel syndrome. If that's really out of line, (as far as your goals for the program) please let me know. My spirit here is to be constructive and see if Omnigroup would like to broaden the appeal of the program. If it helps, I can attach or send a sample drawing so you can see some of these things. Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From hkaufman@mindspring.com Sat Dec 22 09:09:19 2001 Received: from mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.9]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA07592 for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2001 09:09:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOR00ENO8N2BK@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Sat, 22 Dec 2001 12:01:50 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: Rubber stamp tool? To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Dec 22 09:10:00 2001 X-Original-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 12:02:25 -0500 I'm looking at 2.0 beta now and can't find the new rubber stamp tool. Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From greg@omnigroup.com Sat Dec 22 12:25:04 2001 Received: from localhost (tauros.toon.omnigroup.com [209.180.166.93]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA12737; Sat, 22 Dec 2001 12:25:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: In a complaining mood Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Cc: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com To: Howard Kaufman From: Greg Titus In-Reply-To: <38300444-F6F2-11D5-9036-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Dec 22 12:25:58 2001 X-Original-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 12:25:03 -0800 On Saturday, December 22, 2001, at 07:40 AM, Howard Kaufman wrote: > I create a lot of shapes that have lot's of text objects interior to > them. > I suppose for charts it's very convenient that you can click anywhere > inside a shape to select it, but it really makes it hard to select the > text within the shape. It isn't too hard to select a single text item, > but it' > s impossible to select multiple text items if they are within the shape > boundaries. You have to shift click every one of them. You could 'Lock' the shape to make it unselectable, then just drag-select (or whatever) the multiple text items. In 1.2 beta we've added layers so you could have a shape layer and a layer of text above it, and lock the whole shape layer at once. Essentially the same thing, but acting on the whole layer at a time instead of individual shapes. If you have other suggestions on how you'd like to handle this, of course, we'd love to hear them. > Here's a another behavior that is making me nuts: Create a line. > Show the head label and remove the fill. Now use the yellow dot > marker (sorry I don't know what you call it) to move the position of > the text so it is to the left of the line and in the clear. This is > really great, it identifies the line in a way I used to have to do with > a separate line and a separate text object. And they stay together if > you move the line which is also really cool. But here's the problem. > If you try to edit the label when it is to the left of the line and in > the clear, it loses it's orientation and becomes vertical text instead > of horizontal and you have a pain to get it back to what you had before > the edit. Is that a bug? Definitely a bug. But it's something that I can't reproduce. When I try it here, the orientation doesn't change and everything works fine. Does this still happen for you in the 1.2 beta? If so, could you send a sample document? > Another text problem: When you create a text object it doesn't align > to the grid lines, it sits above or below the grid lines. Since I use > text objects to identify a line, I need it to be centered with the > line. You can do that of course with the command Align To centers in > the grid Info pane, but you must do that for every single text object > you create, every single time. It should be a preference you can set > for all text you create. Hmm. I looked into this one briefly, and it looks like it'd be a significant job to do it right. I think you'd probably want to have each shape (and text object) have an 'affinity' for either centeredness or edge-aligned-ness so you could drag the shape/text around and have it remain centered on a grid intersection instead of going back to being edge aligned every time you move it. If we had centeredness affinity available to shapes, then you'd just need to change the text drawing tool in preferences to be centered, and it would work exactly how you'd want. I think this is a good idea, but it isn't a simple fix. Thanks, --Greg From alice@fischer-home.cs.yale.edu Sat Dec 22 13:00:35 2001 Received: from daphne.home (cc166766-b.hamden1.ct.home.com [65.8.101.26]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA13768 for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2001 13:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from nancy.home (nancy.home [192.168.10.9]) by daphne.home (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fBML0UC02486 for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2001 16:00:30 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Multi-line text From: Alice Fischer To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Dec 22 13:02:01 2001 X-Original-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 16:00:28 -0500 I have a problem when trying to type multi-line text into text boxes: If I type newline, that terminates the text entry.To get newlines into a text box, I have to use copy-and-paste, which is slow and seems somewhat silly. Is this a bug? A design problem? Is there a better solution? Thanks, Alice Fischer From tthomas@monarch.net Sat Dec 22 13:08:01 2001 Received: from cheetah.monarch.net (cheetah.monarch.net [24.244.0.4]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA14128 for ; Sat, 22 Dec 2001 13:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 44993 invoked from network); 22 Dec 2001 21:07:25 -0000 Received: from thomas.monarch.net (HELO localhost) (24.244.9.145) by cheetah.monarch.net with SMTP; 22 Dec 2001 21:07:25 -0000 Subject: Re: Multi-line text Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Cc: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com To: Alice Fischer From: Todd Thomas In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat Dec 22 13:09:03 2001 X-Original-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 14:06:46 -0700 I think you want to hit command-return or option-return to get a newline. todd On Saturday, December 22, 2001, at 02:00 PM, Alice Fischer wrote: > I have a problem when trying to type multi-line text into text boxes: > If I type newline, that terminates the text entry.To get newlines into > a text box, I have to use copy-and-paste, which is slow and seems > somewhat silly. > > Is this a bug? A design problem? Is there a better solution? > > Thanks, > Alice Fischer > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > From hkaufman@mindspring.com Sun Dec 23 06:54:03 2001 Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.5]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA05836 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2001 06:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOS001U1XDYLH@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:53:58 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: Suggestions To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Dec 23 06:55:01 2001 X-Original-Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:54:01 -0500 Why not have the info pane automatically track your selections? For instance if I select a line, then the info pane should switch to line, if I select a shape, it should switch to shape, etc. Magnets are a great idea, but for what I do they aren't useful if I can't precisely place them in relation to the grid. Perhaps you could option-click-drag a magnet and it would snap to the grid? Or some better idea that you think of. Could you make it so that "Align edges (or centers) to Grid" can be set as a preference? That way you wouldn't have to set it for each movement every time, but it would be a global default. Of course you could change it as needed. As you know by now, I'm usually looking to have it as a default to Align to Centers. Also, just to point out that the arrow on the right of the toolbar in the info pane currently (2.0 beta) doesn't contain all the info panes. Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From hkaufman@mindspring.com Sun Dec 23 07:04:27 2001 Received: from mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.45]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA06043 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2001 07:04:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOS003U6XVDIQ@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Sun, 23 Dec 2001 10:04:26 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: I'm licensed! To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: <5B3A9EF0-F7B6-11D5-A2F3-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Dec 23 07:05:01 2001 X-Original-Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 10:04:26 -0500 Well, I finally got to the point where I was complaining and suggesting enough that I had to buy the license. Especially important to me was the responsiveness of the Omnigroup support! Thanks. Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From kevin@omnigroup.com Sun Dec 23 23:54:56 2001 Received: from lightrealm.com (lightrealm.com [207.159.154.162]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA28599 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2001 23:54:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([216.122.69.89]) by lightrealm.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id fBO7sre17194; Sun, 23 Dec 2001 23:54:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Rubber stamp tool? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-808522432 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Cc: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com To: Howard Kaufman From: Kevin Steele In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <83CAD1CA-F843-11D5-ACBB-00306571CE92@omnigroup.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun Dec 23 23:55:02 2001 X-Original-Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 23:54:53 -0800 --Apple-Mail-1-808522432 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi, The rubber stamp tool should be the rightmost tool on the toolbar. It will show up there by default, but if you have ever modified the list of visible tools, then you'll need to go to the Drawing Tools pane of the Preferences panel and enable it there. This may also be the reason that the new info panes are not showing up on your info toolbar. If you haven't customized your toolbar, then the new info panes will all show up. If you have customized your info toolbar, then you have to modify it yourself to get the new info panes added. Perhaps we should be reseting some of the defaults when add new tools and info panes? - Kevin PS. If you want to reset all of your OmniGraffle defaults, run Terminal and type defaults remove com.omnigroup.OmniGraffle You can reset just the drawing tools by typing defaults remove com.omnigroup.OmniGraffle ActiveTools To reset the info toolbar... defaults remove com.omnigroup.OmniGraffle "NSToolbar Configuration Info 0" On Saturday, December 22, 2001, at 09:02 AM, Howard Kaufman wrote: > I'm looking at 2.0 beta now and can't find the new rubber stamp tool. > > Regards, > Howard Kaufman > Lectrosonics > (516) 785-6211 > > _______________________________________________ > OmniGraffle-Users mailing list > OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users > > --Apple-Mail-1-808522432 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-2-808522433 --Apple-Mail-2-808522433 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Hi, The rubber stamp tool should be the rightmost tool on the toolbar. It will show up there by default, but if you have ever modified the list of visible tools, then you'll need to go to the Drawing Tools pane of the Preferences panel and enable it there. --Apple-Mail-2-808522433 Content-Disposition: inline; filename=pastedGraphic.tiff Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/tiff; x-unix-mode=0666; name="pastedGraphic.tiff" TU0AKgAABhyAOmBQOCQWDQeEQmFQuGQ2HQ+IRGEvqKRWLReMRmNRuOR2PR+QSGRSONv+TSeUSmVS uWS2XS+YTGZTOaTWWvicTmdTueT2fT+gUGhUOiUV80ekSSSNumU2nU+oVGpVOqVWrVesVNuVtu11 v19x2Fz2N0WWJQxRWm1Wu2W23W+2nS5XC6XW7Xe6qS9KC+X1W39mYF34N74Wk0qMt7FYvGY3HY/I Y5c5PI5XLZfMZamtbOMjPLLQKPRMvSPTTP3UTaW2fWQPAszW7HZWNzubbWFxs7dKzeKXfOHgaZ6Y fERR1cfkcnlcvmc3lsfoc7pdPqdXrQPaVtuLruaJRsPwV9v2V0bJ09b0dVd+v0+33e/j7RwfNjfV Z/foMd2/uc8WKttAEAwFAcCQLAi9FJA0FQXBkGwdAByQi8RoQoXkLGJDB4w01B+tUlMHxBBZNRHE MSwCWo8h/FEVRTFcTNscsYvmcDOGtDBiF9HJ1x2/r/H08yJE7IUgIXFcjRbJEWB+iUInJGcaxuWM pKa2jzB4LRVj4RhhvIdkvS/MEwzFMcwr7MkzzRM8Vnqa5dn+cBhSPJU0zHAEYnK7Rmz0Xs+R2dce v8QpRGkMxBlwIYyFUHQtlaVRaGrL53UlSdKUrS1JwRS9NU3TlJTXNs3zjJMV07S87RjPM9GDVZ4V bDkPJQPpQHYXRqnsVBjHQOJKGgO5OnANhDmogbB2LY1j2Qd5UWXZNm2dZ7B0/N04TlFdoWTPyBuA cMKGhPhez9QDikyXZ7kiWp9kaWZ8i3YQgDSXo2j2VEZ1be173xfJ4L+Vt9X9f+AVbaVQ2rFOA31b KBW3bpYYbKixvMUkuEuXp+kOWJ7CaPpkh8JAywRO8NZFkeSZKeMpFjk2VZXlkNYHalRxTluTUtJp p5vb9wpxHx9FeaZ+kWWp/EKWB+jUSZ0EHpUatoK47GTPx56lqeqaqW2r6rrOta3rh54LJU5a7rd7 Unm2b1WYN7VfWCTEIWGhlifxLGAfJAFUbotkIYgljOWoYigVoqkCZhn8KevD8RxPFO4XXFcdx/EC 2HoP8lynJ8rzHL81y3OczzvN8rxB5dHe0AGp0+cx5ncfEGWJ+D4Vp/ERoRSGefhMmIc48FGagtkS ZoqECc77lme3jeP5Hkl/5fk+b53j8rr/pZjsHqRXyvj6n0rbdOamGlhh5zvMLxIm0PJUnwOBSn6O BRH6RpeH4TxlHyPpVnuHYumpZZUML/z/4AD3RvAGAkBXovWgQ9WBTX3sPGOE1MgY1YJOpT+6s/wM gvCxCeIcaAZhNjvDSJ4fYWxIj5CqIse4VRFD0B4GAaQqYYFFPyUUnkB4FwJenDcH7lScuIggQKCQ 1W0NqNS2wf4UYkA3CyL0LokB8BaEePgKYih7hPEIPQKAhR4g5C0M8VUXykRhjEUgZUZYxxnjRDaH Ma4cIpcqUh47iE/DYjpBRcRiBBiLFGEUNwww1CXHEG4TzGRBDzCSH0eASw/DtBsFUZgq5ID7klJO SklU9DNkrJmTUk3PSddBJ9z8oZPAfIq/6OSO46DYe++E8wMQpC1ByF8ZIWBEDuDKJUd4ZBJDuDAI 0dgVxCDpBsFMY5vBWIcmRMlDkQZlTNmchwZIPQuzRmnNKak15rTZmrNubE3JpTKIq4hSY2ZyR2gs cUGIThZgkCGJMEoSxIgoCeJEEwSxIAlCOI8EAPBGAnB4JsV1ASZldG7Eag1B0OFIZENqhgwqHREQ 7EYJtEweUVB3RejFGaNBgo4eAYZMzxUHpETMf1JSVIcanJcYFK0vx3KVSOkBX6YUzJahyko/iT03 amaAWRkxc0ESqbKmhMKQ1DqMS9Dg0alCnqZUoaK9jiHFqOS2otU6rD/NoesXZfULC8QAUim9Bg51 jrJWWs1Z60VprVWutlba3VvrOXIOgeK6NKEGJivAuK9TkGysWlxxXv2BsFYOwlhbDWHsRYmxVi7D MoeJT6jw0rJGLQAeRIg6U/WZs1ZuzlnbPWftBaG0Vo7QpfP2O1exwic1RZ4RSZ9r7YWxtlbO2ltb bU2pvSaq1rbeW9t9b+3tl7hXDuJcUiJAQAANAQAAAwAAAAEANgAAAQEAAwAAAAEAJQAAAQIAAwAA AAMAAAa+AQMAAwAAAAEABQAAAQYAAwAAAAEAAgAAAREABAAAAAEAAAAIARUAAwAAAAEAAwAAARYA BAAAAAEAAADKARcABAAAAAEAAAYUARoABQAAAAEAAAbEARsABQAAAAEAAAbMARwAAwAAAAEAAQAA ASgAAwAAAAEAAgAAAAAAAAAIAAgACAAK/IAAACcQAAr8gAAAJxA= --Apple-Mail-2-808522433 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII This may also be the reason that the new info panes are not showing up on your info toolbar. If you haven't customized your toolbar, then the new info panes will all show up. If you have customized your info toolbar, then you have to modify it yourself to get the new info panes added. Perhaps we should be reseting some of the defaults when add new tools and info panes? - Kevin PS. If you want to reset all of your OmniGraffle defaults, run Terminal and type defaults remove com.omnigroup.OmniGraffle You can reset just the drawing tools by typing defaults remove com.omnigroup.OmniGraffle ActiveTools To reset the info toolbar... defaults remove com.omnigroup.OmniGraffle "NSToolbar Configuration Info 0" On Saturday, December 22, 2001, at 09:02 AM, Howard Kaufman wrote: I'm looking at 2.0 beta now and can't find the new rubber stamp tool. Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 _______________________________________________ OmniGraffle-Users mailing list OmniGraffle-Users@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users --Apple-Mail-2-808522433-- --Apple-Mail-1-808522432-- From hkaufman@mindspring.com Mon Dec 24 02:55:37 2001 Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.133]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA01914 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 02:55:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOU005DBH0LMM@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 05:55:33 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: suggestion To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 24 02:55:59 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 05:55:35 -0500 May I suggest a new tool which in other programs is a "hand" with which you can drag the page within the current window? Then you can navigate to sections of your document without scroll arrows. Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From hkaufman@mindspring.com Mon Dec 24 03:01:30 2001 Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.5]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA02082 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 03:01:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOU00BGVHAGL0@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 06:01:29 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: Another To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: <94D6CB32-F85D-11D5-B3D8-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 24 03:02:01 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 06:01:28 -0500 Suggestion: Now you can toggle an Info Viewer with the Info tool on the toolbar. However if you have more than one Info Viewer, only the first or original one toggles with the tool. It might be better if all open info viewers toggled together. Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From jaharmi@mac.com Mon Dec 24 08:49:06 2001 Received: from smtpout.mac.com ([204.179.120.86]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA09381 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 08:49:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-relay02.mac.com (server-source-si02 [10.13.10.6]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id fBOGn4M9006349 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 08:49:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp02.mac.com ([10.13.10.66]) by smtp-relay02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 relay02 Jun 21 2001 23:53:48) with ESMTP id GOUXDS00.N24 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 08:49:04 -0800 Received: from localhost ([24.51.41.99]) by asmtp02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 asmtp02 Jun 21 2001 23:53:48) with ESMTP id GOUXDR00.OCH for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 08:49:03 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Object shadow colors don't export to PDF From: Jeremy Reichman To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <2246408D-F88E-11D5-94A4-0050E485AF48@mac.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 24 08:50:03 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 11:49:02 -0500 When I export Graffle files to PDF, the standard grey object shadows export as solid black. They *do* export more as I expect to other formats, notable PNG -- there, they export as fading, softer shadows, almost as I would expect from an object blend in Freehand. This happened in 1.1, and continues in the 1.2 beta. I don't know if that' s how the PDF export is meant to work, but I was hoping for higher fidelity to the original drawing. I still wish I could make soft shadows within Graffle (I can't seem to find a way to do this) and get those to a variety of export formats. Many of my diagrams will be exported for use within MS Word reports. The most useful formats there are PNG (Office's native graphics format, used for everyday docs I'd send as attached files) and, for print purposes, EPS with hi-res TIFF preview. Adding a hi-res TIFF preview option for EPS generated by Graffle would be much appreciated. ;) Thanks! I love this program. -- Jeremy Reichman From jaharmi@mac.com Mon Dec 24 08:54:42 2001 Received: from smtpout.mac.com ([204.179.120.86]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA09578 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 08:54:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-relay02.mac.com (server-source-si02 [10.13.10.6]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id fBOGseM9007856 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 08:54:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com ([10.13.10.65]) by smtp-relay02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 relay02 Jun 21 2001 23:53:48) with ESMTP id GOUXN400.6VT for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 08:54:40 -0800 Received: from localhost ([24.51.41.99]) by asmtp01.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 asmtp01 Jun 21 2001 23:53:48) with ESMTP id GOUXN300.H01 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 08:54:39 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Tab between objects' text fields From: Jeremy Reichman To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 24 08:55:02 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 11:54:38 -0500 I just discovered that you can Tab between the text fields of the objects in your drawing. Wow, that is very cool! It makes some kinds of editing very quick and easy, with far fewer clicks than I was previously using. So I thought I would pass it along for those who hadn't found it yet ... Shift-Tab also works to go through the fields in reverse. This is a tiny, powerful program in need of a serious tutorial to show all that it can already do ... :) Thanks! -- Jeremy Reichman From bcovey@omnigroup.com Mon Dec 24 11:21:21 2001 Received: from gengar (gengar.omnigroup.com [198.151.161.75]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14754 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 11:21:21 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: OmniGraffle 2.0 beta 1 has been posted... From: Brian Covey To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <69789954-F8A3-11D5-9D28-00050209C5D2@omnigroup.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 24 11:22:03 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 11:21:20 -0800 ...to the sneakypeeks directory of our website. It's actually been there since friday, but I just plumb forgot to post the news here. Sorry about that, all! In any case, interested parties can visit (do so with a web browser) for info on how to get ahold of it. Please send any feedback on a sneakypeek build to sneakypeek@omnigroup.com, not the regular OmniGraffle support address... Thanks all and have a happy holidays! Sincerely, Brian Covey Support Engineer Omni Group From hkaufman@mindspring.com Mon Dec 24 14:43:30 2001 Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.10]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA19888 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 14:43:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOV00H1WDOWX6@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 17:41:20 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: Re: OmniGraffle-Users digest, Vol 1 #7 - 6 msgs In-reply-to: <200112242003.MAA04980@lists> To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: <5AB8A92C-F8BF-11D5-8345-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon Dec 24 14:44:02 2001 X-Original-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 17:41:22 -0500 > This is a tiny, powerful program in need of a serious tutorial to show all > that it can already do ... :) Sure is! There is a pretty nice pdf getting started kind of file on the Omni web site you can download with loads of great tips. Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From hkaufman@mindspring.com Wed Dec 26 05:42:20 2001 Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.10]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA01850 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 05:42:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOY00AM1E0705@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 08:40:55 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: info panes window behaviour To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: <30E820DA-FA06-11D5-8C90-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 26 05:43:02 2001 X-Original-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 08:40:57 -0500 I notice that info pane windows don't behave the same as other graffle windows. Since I use Windowshade X I was hoping I could collapse the info pane and keep several open at once in a compact way. Is it possible to redefine the type of window the info pane uses? (BTW, rumor is that soon OS X will restore the window shade feature, so it may be something you want to enable even for those who don't yet have that feature via third party means). Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From hkaufman@mindspring.com Wed Dec 26 05:59:24 2001 Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.10]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA02273 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 05:59:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOY00BXAEUWXZ@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for OMNIgraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 08:59:20 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: Attraction To: OMNIgraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 26 06:00:02 2001 X-Original-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 08:59:21 -0500 Heavy wish: Please make attractions optional. I find now I am almost always drawing my lines with the option key down so I can get my lines to end where I want and not where the program attracts them to. It's uncomfortable to have to keep your finger on the option key all the time! Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From hkaufman@mindspring.com Wed Dec 26 10:24:07 2001 Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.17]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA09757 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 10:24:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOY0075UR407C@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:24:00 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: Toggle show and hide To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 26 10:25:01 2001 X-Original-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:24:00 -0500 It's great the way info, palettes and selection are shown and hidden with the toolbar buttons. Why now extend that behavior to the other panels as well, i.e. colors and fonts? Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From hkaufman@mindspring.com Wed Dec 26 10:26:29 2001 Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.10]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA09870 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 10:26:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOY0073SR7Z5L@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:26:23 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: Text typing oddities To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: <116BBC26-FA2E-11D5-8C90-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 26 10:27:03 2001 X-Original-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:26:24 -0500 I notice that when typing text in a new text box, you can use option-return to get a new line. The box expands for the new line, but the text itself doesn't show up until you finish typing. So after the first line, you are typing "blind". (Beta 2). Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From hkaufman@mindspring.com Wed Dec 26 10:37:08 2001 Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.17]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA10304 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 10:37:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOY00794RPQZN@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:37:03 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: Oh no, another wish To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: <8DC54C25-FA2F-11D5-8C90-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 26 10:38:00 2001 X-Original-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:37:02 -0500 Please add to the wish list a "fit page width" and "fit page" options to the zoom menu so you can quickly zoom to those levels. As the non-programmer said to his programmer friend, "shouldn't be too hard". Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From hkaufman@mindspring.com Wed Dec 26 14:17:43 2001 Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.17]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA18842 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 14:17:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOZ00MN71XE3Y@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 17:17:38 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: pica's not showing To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: <5E8D9F5E-FA4E-11D5-8C90-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 26 14:19:01 2001 X-Original-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 17:17:37 -0500 In the newest beta, if you change the ruler to picas, the size panel shows zero for x and y sized. The other ruler options show correct sizes Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From hkaufman@mindspring.com Wed Dec 26 17:31:16 2001 Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.17]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA25343 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 17:31:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOZ00C2EAW3Y8@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for OMNIgraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 20:31:15 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: Nudging shapes To: OMNIgraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: <6B014FE5-FA69-11D5-8C90-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 26 17:32:00 2001 X-Original-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 20:31:15 -0500 When you nudge a shape past the edges of a window, it doesn't scroll the window as it should. The shape keeps going, but the window view doesn't follow it. Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From support@omnigroup.com Wed Dec 26 18:02:09 2001 Received: from dragonite (dragonite.omnigroup.com [198.151.161.90]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA26099; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 18:02:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Nudging shapes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Cc: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com To: Howard Kaufman From: David Kasprzyk In-Reply-To: <6B014FE5-FA69-11D5-8C90-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 26 18:03:00 2001 X-Original-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 18:02:16 -0800 Dear Mr. Kaufman: Thank you for all of your bug report and suggestions in regards to OmniGraffle. It's not very often when I update mail to not have a message from you, which is simply impressive. I'm very glad that you were impressed enough with our product to decide to register and I hope you continue to enjoy using it. Since you've sent in so many different issues, I'll respond to each of them in turn below: > When you nudge a shape past the edges of a window, it doesn't scroll > the window as it should. The shape keeps going, but the window view > doesn't follow it. I verified this problem and sent it on to our programmers. I agree that the window should scroll with the shape. > In the newest beta, if you change the ruler to picas, the size panel > shows zero for x and y sized. The other ruler options show correct > sizes Verified the problem, but in my case every field with a measurement read '0 pc'. Is anyone else also experiencing this? > Please add to the wish list a "fit page width" and "fit page" options > to the zoom menu so you can quickly zoom to those levels. As the > non-programmer said to his programmer friend, "shouldn't be too hard". Suggestion filed in our database. > I notice that when typing text in a new text box, you can use > option-return to get a new line. The box expands for the new line, but > the text itself doesn't show up until you finish typing. So after the > first line, you are typing "blind". Hmm, well I couldn't get this issue to appear on my machines. Can you send in a .graffle file that you have this problem in? > It's great the way info, palettes and selection are shown and hidden > with the toolbar buttons. Why now extend that behavior to the other > panels as well, i.e. colors and fonts? Suggestion filed in our database. > Heavy wish: Please make attractions optional. I find now I am almost > always drawing my lines with the option key down so I can get my lines > to end where I want and not where the program attracts them to. It's > uncomfortable to have to keep your finger on the option key all the > time! There are several ways that you can do this right now. If you lock either the shapes or if you put all the shapes in one layer and lock the layer while your drawing lines, the shapes won't be selected. > I notice that info pane windows don't behave the same as other graffle > windows. Since I use Windowshade X I was hoping I could collapse the > info pane and keep several open at once in a compact way. Is it > possible to redefine the type of window the info pane uses? I sent this on to our programmers to be looked at. I'm not sure what makes the Info window respond differently than the others, so hopefully they can find the reason. > Suggestion: Now you can toggle an Info Viewer with the Info tool on > the toolbar. However if you have more than one Info Viewer, only the > first or original one toggles with the tool. It might be better if all > open info viewers toggled together. I sent this to our programmers as well. I agree that this should toggle all of the active Info windows. > May I suggest a new tool which in other programs is a "hand" with which > you can drag the page within the current window? Then you can navigate > to sections of your document without scroll arrows. Suggestion filed in our database. > Why not have the info pane automatically track your selections? For > instance if I select a line, then the info pane should switch to line, > if I select a shape, it should switch to shape, etc. Suggestion filed in our database. > Magnets are a great idea, but for what I do they aren't useful if I > can't precisely place them in relation to the grid. Perhaps you could > option-click-drag a magnet and it would snap to the grid? Or some > better idea that you think of. I sent this idea along as I think this would be a good functionality. However, I'm not sure about the implementation so I'll have to talk with Kevin. > Could you make it so that "Align edges (or centers) to Grid" can be set > as a preference? That way you wouldn't have to set it for each > movement every time, but it would be a global default. Of course you > could change it as needed. As you know by now, I'm usually looking to > have it as a default to Align to Centers. There have been several requests for this, and I think it will be something we may look into. > Also, just to point out that the arrow on the right of the toolbar in > the info pane currently (2.0 beta) doesn't contain all the info panes. In order to get the new panes into the toolbar, simply control-click on the toolbar and select 'Customize Toolbar...'. Then drag the new panes onto the toolbar and they will be added. I hope this answers any of the questions you may have had, and please continue to send in your bugs, comments and questions so we may continue to help you. Sincerely, David Kasprzyk support@omnigroup.com Join the OmniGraffle Users List http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/omnigraffle-users From hkaufman@mindspring.com Wed Dec 26 19:18:22 2001 Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.133]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA28577 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 19:18:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net (ool-18b8bc22.dyn.optonline.net [24.184.188.34]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with ESMTP id <0GOZ00FO4FUCBL@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 22:18:12 -0500 (EST) From: Howard Kaufman Subject: More To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Message-id: <5DE28A9E-FA78-11D5-8C90-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 26 19:19:00 2001 X-Original-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 22:18:15 -0500 Just a couple more things to think about when you get bored: When you use the zoom tool, the zoom percentage is not shown. It would be useful to show it since then you could look at the number as a reference to see how zoomed in you are. Last idea for today: When I save a file that is zoomed to some odd percentage with the zoom tool, it opens the next time zoomed to 800%, instead of the zoom I saved it in. Perhaps you could save the zoom value with the file so it opens that way the next time. (O.K. that goes in the nit picky file). More important, it doesn't open with the Palettes that were open when I saved it. I have to manually open them again to continue where I left off. Perhaps it would be nice to save with the file which palettes were open. Then you could open that file (or a template) as an "environment". Regards, Howard Kaufman Lectrosonics (516) 785-6211 From khr@earthlink.net Wed Dec 26 20:49:55 2001 Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA01814; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 20:49:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from evrtwa1-ar4-004-195.elnk.dsl.gtei.net ([4.35.4.195]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16JSUL-0004yk-00; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 20:49:54 -0800 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1331 Subject: Re: Nudging shapes From: Robert Westmoreland To: David Kasprzyk , Howard Kaufman CC: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed Dec 26 20:50:02 2001 X-Original-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 20:49:51 -0800 For the record, I experienced this same bug with the release version of OG. I did not report it because I was typing Japanese at the time, and thought it was probably a bug in the OS X Japanese input system. (Also, because I am lazy.) However, I am not able to repro it now (with the beta (2.0b3) and OS X 10.1.2). > From: David Kasprzyk > Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 18:02:16 -0800 > To: Howard Kaufman > Cc: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com > Subject: Re: Nudging shapes > >> I notice that when typing text in a new text box, you can use >> option-return to get a new line. The box expands for the new line, but >> the text itself doesn't show up until you finish typing. So after the >> first line, you are typing "blind". > > Hmm, well I couldn't get this issue to appear on my machines. Can you > send in a .graffle file that you have this problem in? From jaharmi@mac.com Thu Dec 27 03:48:42 2001 Received: from smtpout.mac.com ([204.179.120.86]) by omnigroup.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA10048 for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2001 03:48:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-relay02.mac.com (server-source-si02 [10.13.10.6]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id fBRBmfM9023497 for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2001 03:48:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com ([10.13.10.65]) by smtp-relay02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 relay02 Jun 21 2001 23:53:48) with ESMTP id GP03H500.V9Z for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2001 03:48:41 -0800 Received: from localhost ([24.51.41.99]) by asmtp01.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 asmtp01 Jun 21 2001 23:53:48) with ESMTP id GP03H400.T3L for ; Thu, 27 Dec 2001 03:48:40 -0800 Subject: Re: More Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) From: Jeremy Reichman To: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5DE28A9E-FA78-11D5-8C90-00306570F2FC@mindspring.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: omnigraffle-users-admin@omnigroup.com X-BeenThere: omnigraffle-users@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: OmniGraffle Users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu Dec 27 03:50:11 2001 X-Original-Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 06:48:24 -0500 Howard - I'm not sure if you mean something else, but I can see the zoom percentage in the document window; it's in the bottom right corner, where the scroll bars meet. It shows what zoom percentage I'm at currently, and serves as a pop-up menu to let me select others. Is that what you're looking for? This is in 1.2 beta v1. I also like your idea of saving the file as an 'environment' and opening up the palettes in use while it was saved. Graffle seems very dependent on palettes (to its detriment on my PowerBook screen, actually). Now that I've actually been reading the tutorial (*sheepish grin*) and picking up on the features, I'm finding more about how it all fits together. (Like, I finally found out how to make shadows transparent and so on.) Having the palettes re-open with the file would make some sense to me, at least as a preference (maybe have an option to ask if you want the palettes you were last using open when you open the document?). On Wednesday, December 26, 2001, at 10:18 PM, Howard Kaufman wrote: > Just a couple more things to think about when you get bored: > > When you use the zoom tool, the zoom percentage is not shown. It would > be useful to show it since then you could look at the number as a > reference to see how zoomed in you are. > > Last idea for today: > When I save a file that is zoomed to some odd percentage with the zoom > tool, > it opens the next time zoomed to 800%, instead of the zoom I saved it in. > Perhaps you could save the zoom value with the file so it opens