From ehrich at mninter.net Thu May 1 09:09:52 2008 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu May 1 09:10:06 2008 Subject: safari appearance Message-ID: <4819EB50.1030504@mninter.net> Safari 3.1 has a dark background in its headers, making it hard to read the text. This is especially bad in tabs which are not currently selected. Is there a way to change that? Unfortunately Firefox 3 is imitating this. How can I fix it in Firefox? -- Bill Ehrich From larkost at softhome.net Thu May 1 09:12:57 2008 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu May 1 09:13:15 2008 Subject: safari appearance In-Reply-To: <4819EB50.1030504@mninter.net> References: <4819EB50.1030504@mninter.net> Message-ID: On May 1, 2008, at 9:09 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > Safari 3.1 has a dark background in its headers, making it hard to > read the text. This is especially bad in tabs which are not > currently selected. Is there a way to change that? Do you mean in the toolbars? If so, then there is no preference for it, but you could probably mess around with the nib files to change that. However, you might run into problems with the code signature when modifying anything in the application package. -- Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Thu May 1 10:16:29 2008 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (R.L. Grigg) Date: Thu May 1 10:16:36 2008 Subject: safari appearance In-Reply-To: References: <4819EB50.1030504@mninter.net> Message-ID: On May 1, 2008, at 9:12 AM, Karl Kuehn wrote: > On May 1, 2008, at 9:09 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > >> Safari 3.1 has a dark background in its headers, making it hard to >> read the text. This is especially bad in tabs which are not >> currently selected. Is there a way to change that? > > Do you mean in the toolbars? If so, then there is no preference for > it, but you could probably mess around with the nib files to change > that. However, you might run into problems with the code signature > when modifying anything in the application package. Yeah, the recent "black on dark gray" Pro schema that's popping up all over the place in OSX is awful, especially if you're running a monitor less than fully bright or have a higher than 2.2 gamma set. For Safari, if you select another app to be active, the tabs do lighten up a bit to where they're readable. But when Safari is selected the non-current tabs are so dark on my calibrated monitor that it can be really tough to read them. You have to let the mouse hover over each tab a second till you get the tooltip text. I guess filing a enhancement request with Apple is the only hope. They seem to have missed class in GUI 101 when they tell you "dont use foreground and background colors that are too similar". Not only is it bad feng shui, it makes you squint. Russ From wiswp at niue.nu Thu May 1 11:28:40 2008 From: wiswp at niue.nu (Bill Wisse) Date: Thu May 1 11:28:50 2008 Subject: safari appearance In-Reply-To: <4819EB50.1030504@mninter.net> References: <4819EB50.1030504@mninter.net> Message-ID: <4A617396-7CEA-4A7D-9CA8-68DCB0B75FFC@niue.nu> On 01/05/2008, at 5:09 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > Safari 3.1 has a dark background in its headers, making it hard to > read the text. This is especially bad in tabs which are not > currently selected. Is there a way to change that? > > Unfortunately Firefox 3 is imitating this. How can I fix it in > Firefox? I don't see any problems, everything is clear on my computer. I don't use Safari though but Webkit, maybe that makes a difference. Greetings from /bill at 169 west , 19 south. Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors From kcall at mac.com Thu May 1 12:17:37 2008 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu May 1 12:17:42 2008 Subject: "None of the checked software updates could be saved" Message-ID: <05DA8D46-FD8C-453E-BE65-FBAE57C44423@mac.com> On our iMac 24, running as admin, I'm having a problem with Software Update installing 4 suggested updates: 1 - Aluminum Keyboard Firmware 1.0 2 - iMac EFI Firmware Update 1.3 3 - iTunes Producer 1.7.1 4 - Safari 3.1.1 When I click the INSTALL 4 items button in the Software Update panel, I get an alert panel saying: "None of the checked updates could be saved. You do not have appropriate access privileges". I'm running as admin. I ran DU and checked the disk. No problems. Also, repaired permissions - and the only permissions issues were regarding the HP drivers. Suggestions? Kevi From pelorus at mac.com Thu May 1 12:31:42 2008 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu May 1 12:32:03 2008 Subject: "None of the checked software updates could be saved" In-Reply-To: <05DA8D46-FD8C-453E-BE65-FBAE57C44423@mac.com> References: <05DA8D46-FD8C-453E-BE65-FBAE57C44423@mac.com> Message-ID: <6BF77FC2-A371-4009-B9D8-552FC6374FF6@mac.com> On 1 May 2008, at 20:17, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > "None of the checked updates could be saved. You do not have > appropriate access privileges". > > I'm running as admin. > > I ran DU and checked the disk. No problems. Also, repaired > permissions - and the only permissions issues were regarding the HP > drivers. > > Suggestions? nuke this folder /Users/username/Library/Caches/com.apple.SoftwareUpdate From abridge at gmail.com Thu May 1 12:36:23 2008 From: abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge) Date: Thu May 1 12:36:25 2008 Subject: safari appearance In-Reply-To: <4819EB50.1030504@mninter.net> References: <4819EB50.1030504@mninter.net> Message-ID: <4cfa589b0805011236l708eb55dk14cb1ec99b37aa3e@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:09 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > Safari 3.1 has a dark background in its headers, making it hard to read the > text. This is especially bad in tabs which are not currently selected. Is > there a way to change that? > > Unfortunately Firefox 3 is imitating this. How can I fix it in Firefox? I don't have a problem with this at all or its appearance in any of the "Pro" applications. The decreased contrast is, for my eyes, easier to see and may work better with anti-aliased text at small sizes. Adam From bentley at crenelle.com Thu May 1 15:56:08 2008 From: bentley at crenelle.com (Michael Brian Bentley) Date: Thu May 1 15:56:24 2008 Subject: Using Eclipse rather than Xcode In-Reply-To: <805330F9-D5C6-47A5-9931-B83972E0AA4B@jasonandannette.us> References: <805330F9-D5C6-47A5-9931-B83972E0AA4B@jasonandannette.us> Message-ID: I played with Eclipse for a few hours in order to do C++ builds on a generic Linux disty. This was a couple years ago. I wasn't able to get it to work but then I hadn't actually used Eclipse for anything else. You may have better luck because you know how Eclipse is supposed to behave, and hopefully someone has spent a bit more time getting the C++ package to work more reliably. From i.am.list.boy at gmail.com Thu May 1 20:34:59 2008 From: i.am.list.boy at gmail.com (i.am.list.boy@gmail.com) Date: Thu May 1 20:35:05 2008 Subject: On the subject of GUI In-Reply-To: <20080501185937.B8457170478@forums.omnigroup.com> References: <20080501185937.B8457170478@forums.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: > They > seem to have missed class in GUI 101 when they tell you "dont use > foreground and background colors that are too similar". Not only is it > bad feng shui, it makes you squint. Am I a twit, or isn't it problematic making so many basic applications' windows (iTunes//Finder/iCal/On&On) virtually indistinguishable? Wouldn't it have made sense to give each app a different tint to clarify which window was which? FWIW, I'm in Tiger, not Lep. I guess back in the old 9 days this wasn't as much of a problem because I couldn't have too many apps open simultaneously. From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Thu May 1 20:50:05 2008 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (R.L. Grigg) Date: Thu May 1 20:50:08 2008 Subject: On the subject of GUI In-Reply-To: References: <20080501185937.B8457170478@forums.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: On May 1, 2008, at 8:34 PM, i.am.list.boy@gmail.com wrote: >> They >> seem to have missed class in GUI 101 when they tell you "dont use >> foreground and background colors that are too similar". Not only is >> it >> bad feng shui, it makes you squint. > > > Am I a twit, or isn't it problematic making so many basic > applications' windows (iTunes//Finder/iCal/On&On) virtually > indistinguishable? Wouldn't it have made sense to give each app a > different tint to clarify which window was which? > > FWIW, I'm in Tiger, not Lep. > > I guess back in the old 9 days this wasn't as much of a problem > because I couldn't have too many apps open simultaneously. Yeah, if you have many windows up its hard to tell them apart cuz they all look alike, short of sifting through them all. Expose is a half- baked workaround to the problem. More GUI 101: Have you ever noticed that when you generate a new window it positions the new window right on top of another window? Or if I select a back window it completely occludes a newer one, and I have to go hunting to find it again. Why can't they autoposition windows so at least a part of them stay visible regardless of which one is in front? Then you wouldn't need Expose. Russ From wiswp at niue.nu Thu May 1 20:55:31 2008 From: wiswp at niue.nu (Bill Wisse) Date: Thu May 1 20:55:40 2008 Subject: On the subject of GUI In-Reply-To: References: <20080501185937.B8457170478@forums.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: On 01/05/2008, at 4:50 PM, R.L. Grigg wrote: > Yeah, if you have many windows up its hard to tell them apart cuz > they all look alike, short of sifting through them all. Expose is a > half-baked workaround to the problem. When using Expose , hit "Option" and all the windows will have a name, easy. Greetings from /bill at 169 west , 19 south. Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Thu May 1 22:18:05 2008 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (R.L. Grigg) Date: Thu May 1 22:18:10 2008 Subject: On the subject of GUI In-Reply-To: References: <20080501185937.B8457170478@forums.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <940BDF6A-1464-4DD5-A3F3-F1EF11AA3CD9@autonomy.caltech.edu> On May 1, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Bill Wisse wrote: > > On 01/05/2008, at 4:50 PM, R.L. Grigg wrote: > >> Yeah, if you have many windows up its hard to tell them apart cuz >> they all look alike, short of sifting through them all. Expose is a >> half-baked workaround to the problem. > > When using Expose , hit "Option" and all the windows will have a > name, easy. Yes but the point is that Expose exists because of the deficiency of the window management scheme. Russ From abridge at gmail.com Thu May 1 22:47:10 2008 From: abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge) Date: Thu May 1 22:47:11 2008 Subject: On the subject of GUI In-Reply-To: <940BDF6A-1464-4DD5-A3F3-F1EF11AA3CD9@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <20080501185937.B8457170478@forums.omnigroup.com> <940BDF6A-1464-4DD5-A3F3-F1EF11AA3CD9@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <4cfa589b0805012247l23a8b6das18d516100bf6050b@mail.gmail.com> Noooooo - it exists because there's limited screen sizes. If everything could be completely exposed then there would be no problem. It does fix the problem of finding a window hidden under many others, at least for me. The idea of having subtle tints for various windows is interesting but would be a mess for those of us who need neutral color values. Nevertheless I like the idea and think it would help pick out different window "families". Adam On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 10:18 PM, R.L. Grigg wrote: > > On May 1, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Bill Wisse wrote: > > > > > > On 01/05/2008, at 4:50 PM, R.L. Grigg wrote: > > > > > > > Yeah, if you have many windows up its hard to tell them apart cuz they > all look alike, short of sifting through them all. Expose is a half-baked > workaround to the problem. > > > > > > > When using Expose , hit "Option" and all the windows will have a name, > easy. > > > > Yes but the point is that Expose exists because of the deficiency of the > window management scheme. > > Russ > > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From steve at paper-ape.com Thu May 1 22:53:19 2008 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu May 1 22:53:17 2008 Subject: On the subject of GUI In-Reply-To: References: <20080501185937.B8457170478@forums.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <481AAC4F.2090809@paper-ape.com> they whom i call R.L. Grigg wrote: > Yeah, if you have many windows up its hard to tell them apart cuz they > all look alike, short of sifting through them all. i use command tab & command tilde, plus my memory of what i've been working on; i use LiteSwitch to enhance this somewhat altogether i have no problem with this, but i believe each person builds a different mental map of their computer environment, and over the years i've learned that mental maps can be quite different -- some aren't even maps, in the sense that they aren't visual or spatial, they are just heuristics that work (some better than others) From bill at cheeseman.name Fri May 2 03:18:31 2008 From: bill at cheeseman.name (Bill Cheeseman) Date: Fri May 2 03:19:20 2008 Subject: On the subject of GUI In-Reply-To: <4cfa589b0805012247l23a8b6das18d516100bf6050b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: on 2008-05-02 1:47 AM, Adam Bridge at abridge@gmail.com wrote: > The idea of having subtle tints for various windows is interesting but > would be a mess for those of us who need neutral color values. > Nevertheless I like the idea and think it would help pick out > different window "families". Don't forget those (many) of us who are colorblind, as well. The Americans with Disabilities Act requires that computer features relying on color must also provide a non-color means to use the feature. -- Bill Cheeseman - bill@cheeseman.name Quechee Software, Quechee, Vermont, USA www.quecheesoftware.com PreFab Software - www.prefabsoftware.com From aglee at mac.com Fri May 2 07:38:29 2008 From: aglee at mac.com (Andy Lee) Date: Fri May 2 07:38:37 2008 Subject: mac laptop power cord tip Message-ID: <866CC9E9-7E77-4AF3-900F-280BF5A00CE8@mac.com> Suggests using a power cord from a Sony Playstation: --Andy From joar at joar.com Fri May 2 07:53:56 2008 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Fri May 2 07:54:02 2008 Subject: mac laptop power cord tip In-Reply-To: <866CC9E9-7E77-4AF3-900F-280BF5A00CE8@mac.com> References: <866CC9E9-7E77-4AF3-900F-280BF5A00CE8@mac.com> Message-ID: On May 2, 2008, at 7:38 AM, Andy Lee wrote: > Suggests using a power cord from a Sony Playstation: You can find power cords that fit in any hardware / electronics store. Often referred to as "laptop", or "figure-8", power cords. Check your existing power cords, it's likely that you have such a cable already. They're frequently used for external hard disks, networking equipment, digital cameras, et.c. j o a r From steve at paper-ape.com Fri May 2 08:02:05 2008 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Fri May 2 08:02:02 2008 Subject: mac laptop power cord tip In-Reply-To: References: <866CC9E9-7E77-4AF3-900F-280BF5A00CE8@mac.com> Message-ID: <481B2CED.90405@paper-ape.com> they whom i call j o a r wrote: > > On May 2, 2008, at 7:38 AM, Andy Lee wrote: > >> Suggests using a power cord from a Sony Playstation: > > > You can find power cords that fit in any hardware / electronics store. i found mine in my garage ;?> they are used for many older appliances, e.g. boomboxes; they are so widely available in the junkstream that i wouldn't pay $6; in fact the PlayStation one looks heavier than the one i use that fits both my camera charger and my laptop power supply (i use it to keep things light when i travel) From aglee at mac.com Fri May 2 08:19:42 2008 From: aglee at mac.com (Andy Lee) Date: Fri May 2 08:19:53 2008 Subject: mac laptop power cord tip In-Reply-To: <481B2CED.90405@paper-ape.com> References: <866CC9E9-7E77-4AF3-900F-280BF5A00CE8@mac.com> <481B2CED.90405@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: <6720AE71-E071-437A-8D36-CCA2B34F90A1@mac.com> Good to know. I really like the rubbery no-kink power cords Apple supplies for some of its devices. They're the only power cords I've ever thought of as user-friendly. But saving on bulk is nice too, and so is having cheap spares. --Andy On May 2, 2008, at 11:02 AM, steve harley wrote: > they whom i call j o a r wrote: >> On May 2, 2008, at 7:38 AM, Andy Lee wrote: >>> Suggests using a power cord from a Sony Playstation: >> You can find power cords that fit in any hardware / electronics >> store. > > i found mine in my garage ;?> > > they are used for many older appliances, e.g. boomboxes; they are so > widely available in the junkstream that i wouldn't pay $6; in fact > the PlayStation one looks heavier than the one i use that fits both > my camera charger and my laptop power supply (i use it to keep > things light when i travel) > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From jearle at gmail.com Fri May 2 08:34:26 2008 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Fri May 2 08:34:31 2008 Subject: mac laptop power cord tip In-Reply-To: <866CC9E9-7E77-4AF3-900F-280BF5A00CE8@mac.com> References: <866CC9E9-7E77-4AF3-900F-280BF5A00CE8@mac.com> Message-ID: <5bbc0cd60805020834v3b391f37o8928e4e189b4204e@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Andy Lee wrote: > Suggests using a power cord from a Sony Playstation: > > I've been doing this for a few years. I have several standard figure-eight cables arranged around the house. The clever trick is using the plug-sized plugs (the ones that latch into the back of iPod and MacBook power supplies without cables) to power your other stuff. I have a camera battery charger plugged into one, wall-wart style. -- Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK jearle@gmail.com :: http://www.23x.net Hosting :: http://cat5.org From i.am.list.boy at gmail.com Fri May 2 18:25:02 2008 From: i.am.list.boy at gmail.com (i.am.list.boy@gmail.com) Date: Fri May 2 18:25:08 2008 Subject: GUI simplicity Message-ID: Picking up on the "OSX-GUI-shortcomings" thread I use Spirited Away, which hides inactive apps after a user-specified time limit. A nice little step in the direction of interface cleanliness/order http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileSharing.woa/73/wo/ 5PvbtbRjeJ6He6cl.2/0.2.1.2.26.27.97.22.35.0.1.1.1? user=koh&fpath=SpiritedAway&templatefn=FileSharing56.html (there are several versions; the latest (0.7) has reported bugs) From shacker at birdhouse.org Fri May 2 20:36:41 2008 From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Hacker Scot) Date: Fri May 2 20:36:47 2008 Subject: hostname conflict Message-ID: <6048E99D-5BB1-4645-95B4-36BEF3F552AC@birdhouse.org> In my Sharing preferences, both the computer name and the Edit... subnet name are "fleegle" (fleegle.local). But if I type "hostname" into a shell, I get "brain," which was the machine's hostname long ago. Apache responds on http://brain but not on http://fleegle . The machine shows up via Back to my Mac as "fleegle." Any idea how this hostname conflict could have happened or how I can fix it? Thanks, Scot From shacker at birdhouse.org Sat May 3 07:01:47 2008 From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Hacker Scot) Date: Sat May 3 07:01:54 2008 Subject: hostname conflict In-Reply-To: <6048E99D-5BB1-4645-95B4-36BEF3F552AC@birdhouse.org> References: <6048E99D-5BB1-4645-95B4-36BEF3F552AC@birdhouse.org> Message-ID: <3A6CA246-C56E-4347-9946-D426FF2DCAEB@birdhouse.org> Ah, turns out I had created a "brain" entry in /etc/hosts long ago. Thanks to Derek C. and Scott A. for pointing me in the direction of DNS. ./s On May 2, 2008, at 8:36 PM, Hacker Scot wrote: > In my Sharing preferences, both the computer name and the Edit... > subnet name are "fleegle" (fleegle.local). But if I type "hostname" > into a shell, I get "brain," which was the machine's hostname long > ago. Apache responds on http://brain but not on http://fleegle . > The machine shows up via Back to my Mac as "fleegle." > > Any idea how this hostname conflict could have happened or how I can > fix it? > > Thanks, > Scot > From kcall at mac.com Sat May 3 20:34:46 2008 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sat May 3 20:34:51 2008 Subject: Time Machine bug? Message-ID: I noticed some strange Time Machine behavior on both my Dual Quad and my iMac (each backing up to different drives): I'm seeing "Backing up 4.5 GB of 4.5 GB ... 4.6 GB of 4.6 GB ... 7.1 GB of 7.1 GB etc etc .. " in increments of 0.1 GB it started happening today ... the Dual Quad backs up to a Time Capsule the iMac 24 backs up to an external FW drive attached to the iMac they're each exhibiting the same behavior - I had to STOP the backups I haven't installed anything new except the most recent Apple updates on May 1 anybody else ? K From wiswp at niue.nu Sat May 3 20:51:07 2008 From: wiswp at niue.nu (Bill Wisse) Date: Sat May 3 20:51:19 2008 Subject: Time Machine bug? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 03/05/2008, at 4:34 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > I'm seeing "Backing up 4.5 GB of 4.5 GB ... 4.6 GB of 4.6 GB ... > 7.1 GB of 7.1 GB etc etc .. " > > in increments of 0.1 GB So what do you find strange about that? Greetings from /bill at 169 west , 19 south. Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors From chad at objectwerks.com Sun May 4 00:53:10 2008 From: chad at objectwerks.com (objectwerks inc) Date: Sun May 4 00:53:14 2008 Subject: Time Machine bug? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <477376D7-22AF-4D8A-9650-2C997F93B7B1@objectwerks.com> On May 3, 2008, at 9:51 PM, Bill Wisse wrote: > > On 03/05/2008, at 4:34 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> I'm seeing "Backing up 4.5 GB of 4.5 GB ... 4.6 GB of 4.6 GB ... >> 7.1 GB of 7.1 GB etc etc .. " >> >> in increments of 0.1 GB > > So what do you find strange about that? I think he is saying that the numbers keep getting larger (maybe without end?) in other words, instead of saying Backing up 1.1GB of 8.9GB ... 1.2GB of 8.9GB .. 1.3GB of 8.9GB ......... 8.8GB of 8.9GB ... 8.9GB of 8.9GB it shows what he shows above, with both left and right being the same and incrementing at the same time. Is that right Kevin? Chad From kcall at mac.com Sun May 4 07:28:57 2008 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sun May 4 07:29:07 2008 Subject: Time Machine bug? In-Reply-To: <477376D7-22AF-4D8A-9650-2C997F93B7B1@objectwerks.com> References: <477376D7-22AF-4D8A-9650-2C997F93B7B1@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On May 4, 2008, at 12:53 AM, objectwerks inc wrote: > > On May 3, 2008, at 9:51 PM, Bill Wisse wrote: > >> >> On 03/05/2008, at 4:34 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: >> >>> I'm seeing "Backing up 4.5 GB of 4.5 GB ... 4.6 GB of 4.6 GB ... >>> 7.1 GB of 7.1 GB etc etc .. " >>> >>> in increments of 0.1 GB >> >> So what do you find strange about that? > > > I think he is saying that the numbers keep getting larger (maybe > without end?) > > in other words, instead of saying > > Backing up 1.1GB of 8.9GB ... 1.2GB of 8.9GB .. 1.3GB of > 8.9GB ......... 8.8GB of 8.9GB ... 8.9GB of 8.9GB > > it shows what he shows above, with both left and right being the > same and incrementing at the same time. > > Is that right Kevin? exactly! I've never seen it behave this way before. K > > > Chad > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From robertlaferla at comcast.net Sun May 4 09:02:52 2008 From: robertlaferla at comcast.net (Robert La Ferla) Date: Sun May 4 09:02:57 2008 Subject: MacMini 1440x1050? Message-ID: Does the MacMini support SXGA+ (1440x1050) resolution? From larkost at softhome.net Sun May 4 11:33:09 2008 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Sun May 4 11:40:34 2008 Subject: MacMini 1440x1050? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0C584318-15E5-4625-A0DD-C8770DCF1A2A@softhome.net> On May 4, 2008, at 9:02 AM, Robert La Ferla wrote: > Does the MacMini support SXGA+ (1440x1050) resolution? Look at Apple's "Tech Specs" page on the mini. Those sorts of things are always included. In other words: please do your homework before asking others to do it for you. -- Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net From kcall at mac.com Sun May 4 22:10:46 2008 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sun May 4 22:10:49 2008 Subject: In pictures: 10 years of iMac News - PC Advisor Message-ID: <9CF3AE88-31E4-4F76-8F52-E7C4CF75FC8B@mac.com> http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=12904&&pn=1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20080504/a759a683/attachment.html From ehrich at mninter.net Mon May 5 05:14:14 2008 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Mon May 5 05:14:25 2008 Subject: (slightly OT) Dilbert Message-ID: <481EFA16.4030307@mninter.net> What's with the Dilbert site wanting me to install a special 'widget'? That rings all my alarm bells. I haven't checked whether it's an exe file. Even if honest and safe it would be a bad precedent. -- Bill Ehrich From lists at toddwarfel.com Mon May 5 06:50:21 2008 From: lists at toddwarfel.com (Todd Zaki Warfel) Date: Mon May 5 08:23:25 2008 Subject: Time Machine bug? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1D250501-C6EB-4C1F-ACB5-5AA701BD1457@toddwarfel.com> I'm getting something simlilar (93.2GB of 93.2GB) and it never seems to finish. On May 3, 2008, at 11:34 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > I noticed some strange Time Machine behavior on both my Dual Quad > and my iMac (each backing up to different drives): > > I'm seeing "Backing up 4.5 GB of 4.5 GB ... 4.6 GB of 4.6 GB ... > 7.1 GB of 7.1 GB etc etc .. " > > in increments of 0.1 GB > > it started happening today ... > > the Dual Quad backs up to a Time Capsule > the iMac 24 backs up to an external FW drive attached to the iMac > > they're each exhibiting the same behavior - > I had to STOP the backups > > I haven't installed anything new except the most recent Apple > updates on May 1 > > anybody else ? > > K > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk Cheers! Todd Zaki Warfel President, Design Researcher Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully. ---------------------------------- Contact Info Voice: (215) 825-7423 Email: todd@messagefirst.com AIM: twarfel@mac.com Blog: http://toddwarfel.com Twitter: zakiwarfel ---------------------------------- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20080505/c465bd85/attachment.html From kcall at mac.com Mon May 5 09:17:56 2008 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Mon May 5 09:18:18 2008 Subject: Time Machine bug? In-Reply-To: <1D250501-C6EB-4C1F-ACB5-5AA701BD1457@toddwarfel.com> References: <1D250501-C6EB-4C1F-ACB5-5AA701BD1457@toddwarfel.com> Message-ID: <90E1D4E9-965B-487B-A3E2-FB6129E2FD90@mac.com> On May 5, 2008, at 6:50 AM, Todd Zaki Warfel wrote: > I'm getting something simlilar (93.2GB of 93.2GB) and it never seems > to finish. when I saw it happening on my DUAL QUAD (backing up to Time Capsule) , I stopped the process and turned TM off. Later, I turned it back on and everything seemed to have behaved normally. I then saw it happening on our iMac 24 Alum backing up to an external FW drive. I stopped the process, turned TM off, then later in the day, revived it. All seems okay. K > > On May 3, 2008, at 11:34 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> I noticed some strange Time Machine behavior on both my Dual Quad >> and my iMac (each backing up to different drives): >> >> I'm seeing "Backing up 4.5 GB of 4.5 GB ... 4.6 GB of 4.6 GB ... >> 7.1 GB of 7.1 GB etc etc .. " >> >> in increments of 0.1 GB >> >> it started happening today ... >> >> the Dual Quad backs up to a Time Capsule >> the iMac 24 backs up to an external FW drive attached to the iMac >> >> they're each exhibiting the same behavior - >> I had to STOP the backups >> >> I haven't installed anything new except the most recent Apple >> updates on May 1 >> >> anybody else ? >> >> K >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > > Cheers! > > Todd Zaki Warfel > President, Design Researcher > Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully. > ---------------------------------- > Contact Info > Voice: (215) 825-7423 > Email: todd@messagefirst.com > AIM: twarfel@mac.com > Blog: http://toddwarfel.com > Twitter: zakiwarfel > ---------------------------------- > In theory, theory and practice are the same. > In practice, they are not. > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html http://www.xeniamara.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20080505/82f8ef88/attachment.html From shawnce at gmail.com Mon May 5 10:23:38 2008 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Mon May 5 10:23:46 2008 Subject: (slightly OT) Dilbert In-Reply-To: <481EFA16.4030307@mninter.net> References: <481EFA16.4030307@mninter.net> Message-ID: On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:14 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > What's with the Dilbert site wanting me to install a special 'widget'? That > rings all my alarm bells. I haven't checked whether it's an exe file. Even > if honest and safe it would be a bad precedent. Likely flash? ... -Shawn From steve at paper-ape.com Mon May 5 10:31:39 2008 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Mon May 5 10:31:51 2008 Subject: (slightly OT) Dilbert In-Reply-To: <481EFA16.4030307@mninter.net> References: <481EFA16.4030307@mninter.net> Message-ID: <481F447B.5080405@paper-ape.com> they whom i call William Ehrich wrote: > What's with the Dilbert site wanting me to install a special 'widget'? > That rings all my alarm bells. I haven't checked whether it's an exe > file. Even if honest and safe it would be a bad precedent. it took me a while to even fine a Dashboard widget on dilbert.com, hard to see how it "wanted" you to install it ... assuming your goal is to not miss any Dilbert, i'd try the RSS feed -- you'll avoid running Flash and the extra memory used by Dashboard From kremels at kreme.com Mon May 5 16:28:40 2008 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Mon May 5 16:28:44 2008 Subject: (slightly OT) Dilbert In-Reply-To: <481EFA16.4030307@mninter.net> References: <481EFA16.4030307@mninter.net> Message-ID: <94792256-EE5F-4F8D-8F90-FEBA50CA7107@kreme.com> On 5-May-2008, at 06:14, William Ehrich wrote: > What's with the Dilbert site wanting me to install a special 'widget'? They redesigned the whole site. It's craptacular now. I avoid it. > That rings all my alarm bells. I haven't checked whether it's an exe > file. Even if honest and safe it would be a bad precedent. Agreed. I did not install it, assuming it was for winturds only. -- Sarah, age 18, says "man, once you go crayola you can't go back." From kremels at kreme.com Mon May 5 16:31:33 2008 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Mon May 5 16:31:36 2008 Subject: (slightly OT) Dilbert In-Reply-To: <481F447B.5080405@paper-ape.com> References: <481EFA16.4030307@mninter.net> <481F447B.5080405@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: <6E65646C-11DA-4812-AF21-8BD09D527CE7@kreme.com> On 5-May-2008, at 11:31, steve harley wrote: > feedburner brings up a non-delimited URL in the form of: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/DilbertDailyStrip/~3/281938514/ which, because of the un-encoded '~', is not recognized by mail.app, and so this RSS feed is 100% useless. -- There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't. From david at idiomatrix.com Mon May 5 17:36:31 2008 From: david at idiomatrix.com (David Herren) Date: Mon May 5 17:36:42 2008 Subject: (slightly OT) Dilbert In-Reply-To: <94792256-EE5F-4F8D-8F90-FEBA50CA7107@kreme.com> References: <481EFA16.4030307@mninter.net> <94792256-EE5F-4F8D-8F90-FEBA50CA7107@kreme.com> Message-ID: On May 5, 2008, at 7:28 PM, LuKreme wrote: > > On 5-May-2008, at 06:14, William Ehrich wrote: > >> What's with the Dilbert site wanting me to install a special >> 'widget'? > > They redesigned the whole site. It's craptacular now. I avoid it. > >> That rings all my alarm bells. I haven't checked whether it's an >> exe file. Even if honest and safe it would be a bad precedent. > > Agreed. I did not install it, assuming it was for winturds only. > see: There is a non-flash version of the site available at /david -- david herren-lage - shoreham, vt & pamplona, es Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing. From steve at paper-ape.com Mon May 5 17:40:35 2008 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Mon May 5 17:40:50 2008 Subject: (slightly OT) Dilbert In-Reply-To: <6E65646C-11DA-4812-AF21-8BD09D527CE7@kreme.com> References: <481EFA16.4030307@mninter.net> <481F447B.5080405@paper-ape.com> <6E65646C-11DA-4812-AF21-8BD09D527CE7@kreme.com> Message-ID: <481FA903.8030408@paper-ape.com> they whom i call LuKreme wrote: > > On 5-May-2008, at 11:31, steve harley wrote: >> > > feedburner brings up a non-delimited URL in the form of: > > http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/DilbertDailyStrip/~3/281938514/ > > which, because of the un-encoded '~', is not recognized by mail.app, and > so this RSS feed is 100% useless. i wouldn't know about Leopard Mail, but it worked in NetNewsWire and Safari; i'm no expert on such matters but it appears RFC 3986 declares tildes "unreserved" and permissible un-encoded within URLs From r.o.durrer at durrer.org Tue May 6 08:29:59 2008 From: r.o.durrer at durrer.org (Rudolf O. Durrer) Date: Tue May 6 08:30:06 2008 Subject: Attachments with TIGER Mail Message-ID: My configuration: OSX 10.4.11 on a Mac Mini I usually sent attachments (text, no picts) as pdf files, but I encounter two annoying problems: 1. Tiger Mail displays PDF Attachments as pdf's in the mail, but I would like to have icons. I know, that I can do that through the contextual menu, but would like to have that as standard. Anybody out there knows how to teach Mail a good behaviour? 2. Even more annoying: I "print" the text files (mostly Appleworks text editor files) to pdf's. That works so far fine, and the files on my computer show with a "PDF" icon. But when I attach them, they convert to jpeg files for beeing sent. The result: the adressee has a very small picture only, unable to read the text... Whats going on here? Is that Mail.app or the printing, which is going wrong? Thanks for hints Rudolf From glennc at mac.com Tue May 6 11:18:21 2008 From: glennc at mac.com (Glenn Carnagey) Date: Tue May 6 11:18:34 2008 Subject: (slightly OT) Dilbert In-Reply-To: <481FA903.8030408@paper-ape.com> References: <481EFA16.4030307@mninter.net> <481F447B.5080405@paper-ape.com> <6E65646C-11DA-4812-AF21-8BD09D527CE7@kreme.com> <481FA903.8030408@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: <78BFB91C-D529-4218-9AE7-9CC2C9F830C3@mac.com> On May 5, 2008, at 7:40 PM, steve harley wrote: > they whom i call LuKreme wrote: >> On 5-May-2008, at 11:31, steve harley wrote: >>> >> feedburner brings up a non-delimited URL in the form of: >> http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/DilbertDailyStrip/~3/281938514/ >> which, because of the un-encoded '~', is not recognized by >> mail.app, and so this RSS feed is 100% useless. > > i wouldn't know about Leopard Mail, but it worked in NetNewsWire and > Safari; i'm no expert on such matters but it appears RFC 3986 > declares tildes "unreserved" and permissible un-encoded within URLs yeah, that's just a bug in Mail.app. how many local web homes are out there with ~username as their DocRoot? I dunno, but it's a lot.... frankly, Mail.app URL recognition leaves a lot to be desired. sure, it would be nice if we all used tinyurl and <...>, but until utopia arrives it would be nice if it "just worked". ;-) g./ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20080506/a8338f37/attachment.html From ehrich at mninter.net Tue May 6 13:02:17 2008 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Tue May 6 13:02:29 2008 Subject: (slightly OT) Dilbert In-Reply-To: References: <481EFA16.4030307@mninter.net> <94792256-EE5F-4F8D-8F90-FEBA50CA7107@kreme.com> Message-ID: <4820B949.6040109@mninter.net> David Herren wrote: > see: > > > > There is a non-flash version of the site available at > > Many thanks! That's just what we needed. Their "install this widget" seemed almost a caricature of a malicious web site asking me to install their keystroke reader. -- Bill Ehrich From ehrich at mninter.net Tue May 6 13:13:40 2008 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Tue May 6 13:13:56 2008 Subject: Attachments with TIGER Mail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4820BBF4.7060509@mninter.net> Rudolf O. Durrer wrote: > I usually sent attachments (text, no picts) as pdf files, but I > encounter two annoying problems: And your recipients will encounter two others: .pdf is very bulky, so if they have a dialup connection it's a long wait; .pdf is awkward to read on a computer screen. Of course if your recipients' secretaries print paper copies of their email for them to read ... From wiswp at niue.nu Tue May 6 15:01:09 2008 From: wiswp at niue.nu (Bill Wisse) Date: Tue May 6 15:01:20 2008 Subject: Attachments with TIGER Mail In-Reply-To: <4820BBF4.7060509@mninter.net> References: <4820BBF4.7060509@mninter.net> Message-ID: <401CCA99-B808-401B-A328-D8CA93FC7AC7@niue.nu> On 06/05/2008, at 9:13 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > And your recipients will encounter two others: .pdf is very bulky, > so if they have a dialup connection it's a long wait; .pdf is > awkward to read on a computer screen. I don't understand, I just saved a Numbers file of 20 pages and it is only 84 kb and it shows up pretty good on my computer screen, in fact no different then the original Numbers document. Greetings from /bill at 169 west , 19 south. Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors From steve at paper-ape.com Tue May 6 19:01:37 2008 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Tue May 6 19:01:43 2008 Subject: Attachments with TIGER Mail In-Reply-To: <401CCA99-B808-401B-A328-D8CA93FC7AC7@niue.nu> References: <4820BBF4.7060509@mninter.net> <401CCA99-B808-401B-A328-D8CA93FC7AC7@niue.nu> Message-ID: <48210D81.7020409@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Bill Wisse wrote: > On 06/05/2008, at 9:13 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > >> And your recipients will encounter two others: .pdf is very bulky, so >> if they have a dialup connection it's a long wait; .pdf is awkward to >> read on a computer screen. > > I don't understand, I just saved a Numbers file of 20 pages and it is > only 84 kb and it > shows up pretty good on my computer screen, in fact no different then > the original Numbers document. yes, they can be quite small, although there are a lot of people who are incapable of managing the size of PDFs they send (receiving a 40MB PDF by email, as somtimes happens, is no fun on my low-end DSL connection) i think PDFs are really good for emailing certain types of documents; much preferable to the numerous .doc, .ppt etc. files i receive; even if the "simulation of paper" is not the most ideal way to read on a computer, it has plenty of benefits; i often work on community issues where i mark up a PDF of a city-generated PDF of a planning document and bring that to a meeting with me on a laptop From steve at paper-ape.com Wed May 7 11:26:27 2008 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Wed May 7 11:26:30 2008 Subject: Attachments with TIGER Mail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4821F453.8050507@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Rudolf O. Durrer wrote: > 2. Even more annoying: I "print" the text files (mostly Appleworks text > editor files) to pdf's. That works so far fine, and the files on my > computer show with a "PDF" icon. But when I attach them, they convert to > jpeg files for beeing sent. The result: the adressee has a very small > picture only, unable to read the text... > Whats going on here? Is that Mail.app or the printing, which is going > wrong? i don't use Mail a lot, but i am running Tiger, so i took a few minutes for some experiments; the only way i was able to get Mail to turn an attached PDF into a JPEG was to change the Image Size: setting at the lower right of the composition window to Small or Medium (Large might have done it too, if my test PDF hadn't been pretty small already) this setting doesn't seem to be sticky, and i don't see a way to control that in the prefs From r.o.durrer at durrer.org Wed May 7 11:37:59 2008 From: r.o.durrer at durrer.org (Rudolf O. Durrer) Date: Wed May 7 11:38:07 2008 Subject: Attachments with TIGER Mail In-Reply-To: <4821F453.8050507@paper-ape.com> References: <4821F453.8050507@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the hint, I will do some tests on that.. Am 07.05.2008 um 20.26 schrieb steve harley: > they whom i call Rudolf O. Durrer wrote: >> 2. Even more annoying: I "print" the text files (mostly Appleworks >> text editor files) to pdf's. That works so far fine, and the files >> on my computer show with a "PDF" icon. But when I attach them, >> they convert to jpeg files for beeing sent. The result: the >> adressee has a very small picture only, unable to read the text... >> Whats going on here? Is that Mail.app or the printing, which is >> going wrong? > > i don't use Mail a lot, but i am running Tiger, so i took a few > minutes for some experiments; the only way i was able to get Mail > to turn an attached PDF into a JPEG was to change the Image Size: > setting at the lower right of the composition window to Small or > Medium (Large might have done it too, if my test PDF hadn't been > pretty small already) > > this setting doesn't seem to be sticky, and i don't see a way to > control that in the prefs From kremels at kreme.com Fri May 9 10:04:52 2008 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Fri May 9 10:04:59 2008 Subject: Attachments with TIGER Mail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42FA8D43-4F1C-4498-BE7B-67C8AB55954C@kreme.com> On 6-May-2008, at 09:29, Rudolf O. Durrer wrote: > 1. Tiger Mail displays PDF Attachments as pdf's in the mail, but I > would like to have icons. I know, that I can do that through the > contextual menu, but would like to have that as standard. Anybody > out there knows how to teach Mail a good behaviour? Send multi-page pdfs. > 2. Even more annoying: I "print" the text files (mostly Appleworks > text editor files) to pdf's. That works so far fine, and the files > on my computer show with a "PDF" icon. But when I attach them, they > convert to jpeg files for beeing sent. Nooo... I've never seen that and I send pdfs in Mail.app all the time. > Whats going on here? Is that Mail.app or the printing, which is > going wrong? Depends on how youa re prinitng, I guess. I haven't used AW since MacOS 8.x days, but I sent many 'printed' pdfs via mail every single day (mostly to myself). -- With excitement like this, who is needing enemas? From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Tue May 13 18:27:11 2008 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (R.L. Grigg) Date: Tue May 13 18:27:15 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? Message-ID: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> What is the most "universal" type of video file? What could be viewed on almost any system, Mac or Windows, without requiring certain packages or codecs? .wmv .avi .mov .mpg .asf .mp4 I have some .3g2 files to convert and have all these choices but don't know which one would be the best to give out to people. I don't plan to use any special encoding I just want to make a simple movie file anyone can play. Russ From lists at cortig.net Tue May 13 19:14:33 2008 From: lists at cortig.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Corentin_Cras-M=E9neur?=) Date: Tue May 13 19:14:38 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: On May 13, 2008, at 20:27 , R.L. Grigg wrote: > What is the most "universal" type of video file? What could be > viewed on almost any system, Mac or Windows, without requiring > certain packages or codecs? I would guess MPEG1. Corentin From larkost at softhome.net Tue May 13 19:41:48 2008 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Tue May 13 19:41:53 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> On May 13, 2008, at 6:27 PM, R.L. Grigg wrote: > What is the most "universal" type of video file? What could be > viewed on almost any system, Mac or Windows, without requiring > certain packages or codecs? > > .wmv > .avi > .mov > .mpg > .asf > .mp4 > > I have some .3g2 files to convert and have all these choices but > don't know which one would be the best to give out to people. I > don't plan to use any special encoding I just want to make a simple > movie file anyone can play. I am split between MPEG 1, MPEG 4, and Flash, and here is why: MPEG 1 + almost anything can play it + only format that really works in MS Office on both platforms - the compression is not so good, and the artifacts can be bad - had to find a good encoder on the Mac that is not expensive MPEG 4 + most things can play it + compression is good, and the artifacts are reasonable + good availability of encoders - non computer devices, and older computers might not play it Flash + playable in any computer with a browser - lousy format (visual quality, and developer) - usually needs a wrapper to play (just html, but you now have 2 files rather than 1) -- Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Tue May 13 19:52:03 2008 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (R.L. Grigg) Date: Tue May 13 19:52:06 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> Message-ID: <71E4747D-B4F8-4031-8522-8C2647E15986@autonomy.caltech.edu> On May 13, 2008, at 7:41 PM, Karl Kuehn wrote: > On May 13, 2008, at 6:27 PM, R.L. Grigg wrote: > >> What is the most "universal" type of video file? What could be >> viewed on almost any system, Mac or Windows, without requiring >> certain packages or codecs? >> >> .wmv >> .avi >> .mov >> .mpg >> .asf >> .mp4 >> >> I have some .3g2 files to convert and have all these choices but >> don't know which one would be the best to give out to people. I >> don't plan to use any special encoding I just want to make a simple >> movie file anyone can play. > > I am split between MPEG 1, MPEG 4, and Flash, and here is why: > > MPEG 1 > + almost anything can play it > + only format that really works in MS Office on both platforms > - the compression is not so good, and the artifacts can be bad > - had to find a good encoder on the Mac that is not expensive > > MPEG 4 > + most things can play it > + compression is good, and the artifacts are reasonable > + good availability of encoders > - non computer devices, and older computers might not play it > > Flash > + playable in any computer with a browser > - lousy format (visual quality, and developer) > - usually needs a wrapper to play (just html, but you now have 2 > files rather than 1) Wow. Interesting that MOV isn't on the list! If someone has iTunes on Windows, what .mov encodings should play on their system? Or are the two things not related. Russ From larkost at softhome.net Tue May 13 20:02:07 2008 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Tue May 13 20:02:31 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <71E4747D-B4F8-4031-8522-8C2647E15986@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <71E4747D-B4F8-4031-8522-8C2647E15986@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: On May 13, 2008, at 7:52 PM, R.L. Grigg wrote: >> I am split between MPEG 1, MPEG 4, and Flash, and here is why: > Wow. Interesting that MOV isn't on the list! If someone has iTunes > on Windows, what .mov encodings should play on their system? Or are > the two things not related. If someone has iTunes, then they have to have QuickTime, and so they can play most (or all?) .mov formats. But QuickTime/iTunes is not installed on the majority of windows computers, and is not available on linux computers. Therefore, if you are aiming for a "just works" experience, then it is not a recommended format. And QuickTime has been pushing MPEG 4 (and the H.264 variant) for a while now. So if you go with that format, you are getting the best general codec that QuickTime has (I a not saying that it can't be beat in specific arenas, but it is a good general contender). -- Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Tue May 13 20:11:29 2008 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (R.L. Grigg) Date: Tue May 13 20:11:33 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <71E4747D-B4F8-4031-8522-8C2647E15986@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <16A96115-0953-49DE-BC47-FB1AAC7ABD6E@autonomy.caltech.edu> On May 13, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Karl Kuehn wrote: > On May 13, 2008, at 7:52 PM, R.L. Grigg wrote: > >>> I am split between MPEG 1, MPEG 4, and Flash, and here is why: > >> Wow. Interesting that MOV isn't on the list! If someone has iTunes >> on Windows, what .mov encodings should play on their system? Or are >> the two things not related. > > > If someone has iTunes, then they have to have QuickTime, and so > they can play most (or all?) .mov formats. But QuickTime/iTunes is > not installed on the majority of windows computers, and is not > available on linux computers. Therefore, if you are aiming for a > "just works" experience, then it is not a recommended format. > > And QuickTime has been pushing MPEG 4 (and the H.264 variant) for a > while now. So if you go with that format, you are getting the best > general codec that QuickTime has (I a not saying that it can't be > beat in specific arenas, but it is a good general contender). Excellent! Thx so much for your insight. Russ From pelorus at mac.com Tue May 13 22:18:53 2008 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Tue May 13 22:18:58 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <71E4747D-B4F8-4031-8522-8C2647E15986@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <72280368-A88C-4D8F-B991-16A184A3DBB4@mac.com> On 14 May 2008, at 04:02, Karl Kuehn wrote: > If someone has iTunes, then they have to have QuickTime, and so > they can play most (or all?) .mov formats. But QuickTime/iTunes is > not installed on the majority of windows computers, and is not > available on linux computers. Therefore, if you are aiming for a > "just works" experience, then it is not a recommended format. Quicktime/iTunes will be installed on the majority of Windows computers that matter. i.e. it's not installed on my work machine but then Windows Media isn't installed either. I find, as a Mac person, that MOV and MP4 are the easiest to work with. From shacker at birdhouse.org Tue May 13 23:15:53 2008 From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Hacker Scot) Date: Tue May 13 23:16:04 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> Message-ID: <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> On May 13, 2008, at 7:41 PM, Karl Kuehn wrote: > Flash > + playable in any computer with a browser > - lousy format (visual quality, and developer) Why do you say "lousy visual quality" re: Flash? It uses h.264 just like QuickTime. Quality/size ratio is virtually identical to QuickTime (don't judge Flash video's quality on YouTube - they compress the crap out of everything, but that's not Flash's fault). > - usually needs a wrapper to play (just html, but you now have 2 > files rather than 1) Flash video is in .flv format, and you can't embed .flv in HTML directly - it needs a Flash player wrapper such as the free JW FLV wrapper (unless you want to embed the .flv in a .swf). So really you need .flv plus a wrapper player plus HTML. And note that you can't just double-click a .flv file and have it come up in a player - it really needs that HTML+player wrapper. So Flash video deployment is a bit more involved than other formats, but Flash video is probably your best bet for already-installed support on the widest variety of computers/operating systems (why do you think it's used by YouTube, vimeo, Flickr video and all the rest?) Despite the extra hassle, if you're displaying video on the web there's little question Flash video is definitely the way to go these days - it's eclipsed the other formats because of extremely wide penetration of the Flash player (around 98% of users). If you're not displaying them on the web, it's another story - go with one of the other recommendations. ./s -- >>> Birdhouse Hosting <<< Custom web and mail hosting services http://hosting.birdhouse.org From kcall at mac.com Tue May 13 23:28:12 2008 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Tue May 13 23:28:22 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> Message-ID: <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> On May 13, 2008, at 11:15 PM, Hacker Scot wrote: > Flash video is in .flv format, and you can't embed .flv in HTML > directly - it needs a Flash player wrapper such as the free JW FLV > wrapper (unless you want to embed the .flv in a .swf). So really you > need .flv plus a wrapper player plus HTML. And note that you can't > just double-click a .flv file and have it come up in a player - it > really needs that HTML+player wrapper. 99+% of the crashes I get in Safari are FLASH plugin related K From shacker at birdhouse.org Tue May 13 23:37:57 2008 From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Hacker Scot) Date: Tue May 13 23:38:04 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> Message-ID: On May 13, 2008, at 11:28 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > 99+% of the crashes I get in Safari are FLASH plugin related Well, Safari was 2.2% of the installed browser market in April 2008, and is not yet what I'd call a mature browser (watch its poor javascript support screw up your Google Docs documents or TinyMCE posts in WordPress for example). I wouldn't worry much about Safari. ./s -- >>> Birdhouse Hosting <<< Custom web and mail hosting services http://hosting.birdhouse.org From kcall at mac.com Tue May 13 23:40:01 2008 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Tue May 13 23:40:13 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> Message-ID: <42551F0A-F9F7-4DA5-8348-6533A5615A74@mac.com> On May 13, 2008, at 11:37 PM, Hacker Scot wrote: > > On May 13, 2008, at 11:28 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> 99+% of the crashes I get in Safari are FLASH plugin related > > > Well, Safari was 2.2% of the installed browser market in April 2008, > and is not yet what I'd call a mature browser (watch its poor > javascript support screw up your Google Docs documents or TinyMCE > posts in WordPress for example). I wouldn't worry much about Safari. it's my browser of choice, for many reasons other than FLASH mucking it up, it works great for me K > > > ./s > > > -- > >>> Birdhouse Hosting <<< > Custom web and mail hosting services > http://hosting.birdhouse.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From pelorus at mac.com Tue May 13 23:40:58 2008 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Tue May 13 23:41:52 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> Message-ID: -- Matt Johnston - 07515352971 On 14 May 2008, at 07:37, Hacker Scot wrote: > > On May 13, 2008, at 11:28 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> 99+% of the crashes I get in Safari are FLASH plugin related > > > Well, Safari was 2.2% of the installed browser market in April 2008, > and is not yet what I'd call a mature browser (watch its poor > javascript support screw up your Google Docs documents or TinyMCE > posts in WordPress for example). I wouldn't worry much about Safari. Hands up who uses Safari? From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk Tue May 13 23:42:24 2008 From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford) Date: Tue May 13 23:42:48 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <42551F0A-F9F7-4DA5-8348-6533A5615A74@mac.com> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> <42551F0A-F9F7-4DA5-8348-6533A5615A74@mac.com> Message-ID: <354C0671-0C82-40E3-9B59-04B015B16A27@boldfish.co.uk> On 14 May 2008, at 07:40, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > it's my browser of choice, for many reasons > > it works great for me +1 From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk Tue May 13 23:44:55 2008 From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford) Date: Tue May 13 23:45:12 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> Message-ID: On 14 May 2008, at 07:40, Matt Johnston wrote: >> > > Hands up who uses Safari? > _______________________________ Me, but I often set it to pretend that it's Internet Explorer, so if I'm not alone, we can't trust the stats. ;o) From lists at c18.net Tue May 13 23:49:00 2008 From: lists at c18.net (Andrew Brown) Date: Tue May 13 23:49:04 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> Message-ID: On 14 May 2008, at 08:40, Matt Johnston wrote: > Hands up who uses Safari? Most of the time, but here in France (where believe it or not -- but on a reply-to-sender list anything can be believed -- the web was invented) many sites are optimised for IE 1.389 beta and some of these will work with Firefox but not with Safari. AB From shacker at birdhouse.org Tue May 13 23:54:18 2008 From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Hacker Scot) Date: Tue May 13 23:54:24 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> Message-ID: <498657C1-E5FC-40E3-AB02-C0E469112B9F@birdhouse.org> On May 13, 2008, at 11:40 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: > Hands up who uses Safari? Well, not more than 2.2% of the internet, that's for sure. But this is a video format thread, not a favorite browser thread. I'm not trying to trash on Safari - I'd use it too for its speed and elegance and fantastic CSS support if it just had a plugin ecosystem like FireFox and if its JavaScript/Ajax support didn't suck. I'm a Mac- based web developer -- of course I'm partial to Safari - but it doesn't measure up to FF where it counts, so I can't come up with a compelling reason to use it. But that's not the point. The point is that you're saying "Flash crashes Safari" as if that's a good reason for the OP not to distribute his video in Flash format. And I'm saying "It doesn't crash other browsers and Safari is a tiny slice of the market so I wouldn't worry about it." A "hands up" poll about browser choices on this list isn't relevant to the OP's question about most painless video format for the world at large. The answer to that question is Flash, regardless who here likes Safari. ./s -- >>> Birdhouse Hosting <<< Custom web and mail hosting services http://hosting.birdhouse.org From jearle at gmail.com Tue May 13 23:55:25 2008 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Tue May 13 23:55:28 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> Message-ID: <5bbc0cd60805132355i6c8681d8j171e62728bd0469c@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 7:49 AM, Andrew Brown wrote: > here in France (where believe it or not -- but on a > reply-to-sender list anything can be believed -- the web was invented) Sure that wasn't Switzerland? Geneva is still in Switzerland, right? ;) MPEG1 is the most playable video format as it's the only decent file format that will play on both Windows Media and Quicktime Player without the need to install any additional codecs. For cheap MPEG encoding, try VisualHub. -- Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK jearle@gmail.com :: http://www.23x.net Hosting :: http://cat5.org From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk Wed May 14 00:08:11 2008 From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford) Date: Wed May 14 00:08:26 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <498657C1-E5FC-40E3-AB02-C0E469112B9F@birdhouse.org> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> <498657C1-E5FC-40E3-AB02-C0E469112B9F@birdhouse.org> Message-ID: On 14 May 2008, at 07:54, Hacker Scot wrote: > A "hands up" poll about browser choices on this list isn't relevant > to the OP's question about most painless video format for the world > at large. The answer to that question is Flash, regardless who here > likes Safari. Assuming of course that you are distributing the video via the web, and not for re-use or editing. I got the impression that the OP was asking about file based distribution, and for a method without special packages or codecs. in that case I'd be going for MPEG1 as the most widely supported (and not being happy about quality). From pelorus at mac.com Wed May 14 02:02:32 2008 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Wed May 14 02:03:26 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <498657C1-E5FC-40E3-AB02-C0E469112B9F@birdhouse.org> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> <498657C1-E5FC-40E3-AB02-C0E469112B9F@birdhouse.org> Message-ID: <2A7A177E-0AB6-40F5-AD95-FC629EEBF318@mac.com> -- Matt Johnston - 07515352971 On 14 May 2008, at 07:54, Hacker Scot wrote: > > On May 13, 2008, at 11:40 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: > >> Hands up who uses Safari? > > > Well, not more than 2.2% of the internet, that's for sure. Aha, but his target market might not be 'the Internet' 100% of them might be Safari users. From markds.lists at googlemail.com Wed May 14 02:37:32 2008 From: markds.lists at googlemail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Wed May 14 02:37:39 2008 Subject: Safari [was: Most "universal" type of video file?] In-Reply-To: <498657C1-E5FC-40E3-AB02-C0E469112B9F@birdhouse.org> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> <498657C1-E5FC-40E3-AB02-C0E469112B9F@birdhouse.org> Message-ID: <544DBC40-B846-4B5C-8CBB-462946885A66@gmail.com> On 14.05.2008, at 08:54, Hacker Scot wrote: > I'm not trying to trash on Safari - I'd use it too for its speed and > elegance and fantastic CSS support if it just had a plugin > ecosystem like FireFox and if its JavaScript/Ajax support didn't suck. But we already have an extensible browser that bends over backwards in attempt to accommodate everything that JS might toss at it. This browser is Firefox and I think that one such beast is sufficient. In any case, most mac users use Safari. OK, its the installed default, but I hardly think that is the reason why (if I'm guessing correctly) most people here use Safari as their main browser. Perhaps it has to do with the following: Speed Stability By far the best CSS support of any browser Easy to maintain Better interaction with the OS and other apps Some of these things are, at least in part, a consequence of the absence of a "firefox-like plugin ecosystem" Some other aspects: color support font rendering In my use, the JS issues are minimal and for the handful of worthy sites where this is significant I either - look for an alternative site and/or fire up Camino. From danielsabsay at pacbell.net Wed May 14 02:57:28 2008 From: danielsabsay at pacbell.net (Daniel Sabsay) Date: Wed May 14 02:57:31 2008 Subject: Safari [was: Most "universal" type of video file?] In-Reply-To: <544DBC40-B846-4B5C-8CBB-462946885A66@gmail.com> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> <498657C1-E5FC-40E3-AB02-C0E469112B9F@birdhouse.org> <544DBC40-B846-4B5C-8CBB-462946885A66@gmail.com> Message-ID: I do a lot of "Ajax" programming, and it works just fine on Safari. However, I only use "Jason" techniques (Javascript fragments), without any of the XML junk. ------------------------------------------------------- -- Daniel Sabsay, Cybernetic Moments http://home.pacbell.net/sabsay/home We tamed fire, and used it to teach sand how to think. On May 14, 2008, at 2:37 AM, Mark Smith wrote: > > On 14.05.2008, at 08:54, Hacker Scot wrote: > >> I'm not trying to trash on Safari - I'd use it too for its speed >> and elegance and fantastic CSS support if it just had a plugin >> ecosystem like FireFox and if its JavaScript/Ajax support didn't >> suck. > > But we already have an extensible browser that bends over backwards > in attempt to accommodate everything that JS might toss at it. This > browser is Firefox and I think that one such beast is sufficient. > > In any case, most mac users use Safari. > > OK, its the installed default, but I hardly think that is the reason > why (if I'm guessing correctly) most people here use Safari as their > main browser. Perhaps it has to do with the following: > > Speed > Stability > By far the best CSS support of any browser > Easy to maintain > Better interaction with the OS and other apps > > Some of these things are, at least in part, a consequence of the > absence of a "firefox-like plugin ecosystem" > > Some other aspects: > > color support > font rendering > > In my use, the JS issues are minimal and for the handful of worthy > sites where this is significant I either - look for an alternative > site and/or fire up Camino. > > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From markds.lists at googlemail.com Wed May 14 03:10:52 2008 From: markds.lists at googlemail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Wed May 14 03:10:59 2008 Subject: Safari [was: Most "universal" type of video file?] In-Reply-To: <544DBC40-B846-4B5C-8CBB-462946885A66@gmail.com> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> <498657C1-E5FC-40E3-AB02-C0E469112B9F@birdhouse.org> <544DBC40-B846-4B5C-8CBB-462946885A66@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 14.05.2008, at 11:37, I wrote: > Some other aspects: > > color support > font rendering and here is another: character set support (Of a handful of unicode symbols I picked to represent "feather types" on a small chyrp site, Safari renders them all, Camino fails on three out of seven. Anecdotal ? Certainly. Non-representative ? You decide.) From lists at c18.net Wed May 14 01:53:30 2008 From: lists at c18.net (Andrew Brown) Date: Wed May 14 03:40:17 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <5bbc0cd60805132355i6c8681d8j171e62728bd0469c@mail.gmail.com> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> <5bbc0cd60805132355i6c8681d8j171e62728bd0469c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0A3EA05E-1241-4B68-8211-C7A6EE79502E@c18.net> On 14 May 2008, at 08:55, Jared Earle wrote: > Sure that wasn't Switzerland? Geneva is still in Switzerland, > right? ;) I am assured that when the idea first sparked in the cells of Tim Berners-Lee he was in the accelerator tunnel of CERN under French soil, which is indeed where most of the tunnel runs even if the fearful tin shacks in which the employees of CERN toil mainly grace the territory of our Swiss neighbours. I am sure that TBL will confirm this, if offered the L?gion d'honneur and a few cases of Meursault. But much good has it done us here in Ferney-Voltaire: for ten years now I have lived and worked directly over the CERN backbone, and still have to make do with the toy-town ADSL supplied by France Telecom. AB From r.o.durrer at durrer.org Wed May 14 03:47:49 2008 From: r.o.durrer at durrer.org (Rudolf O. Durrer) Date: Wed May 14 03:47:57 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> Message-ID: Am 14.05.2008 um 08:40 schrieb Matt Johnston: > -- > Matt Johnston - 07515352971 > > On 14 May 2008, at 07:37, Hacker Scot wrote: >> >> On May 13, 2008, at 11:28 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: >> >>> 99+% of the crashes I get in Safari are FLASH plugin related >> >> >> Well, Safari was 2.2% of the installed browser market in April >> 2008, and is not yet what I'd call a mature browser (watch its >> poor javascript support screw up your Google Docs documents or >> TinyMCE posts in WordPress for example). I wouldn't worry much >> about Safari. > > Hands up who uses Safari? I'm working with Apples since late seventies, with Macs since 1988...and mostly I use Apple software for working...but Safari? Camino, Firefox, Omni, iCab, Opera (to name just a few) are a reliable replacements. But I see most Mac users using Safari, b'cause it's already installed... :-) From kremels at kreme.com Wed May 14 05:00:07 2008 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Wed May 14 05:00:11 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <5E18350D-92E0-4F31-B618-A8E775F88031@kreme.com> On 13-May-2008, at 19:27, R.L. Grigg wrote: > What is the most "universal" type of video file? What could be > viewed on almost any system, Mac or Windows, without requiring > certain packages or codecs? Nothing fits that bill. Especially since Windows, out of the box, supports almost no video formats outside of WM9/10 and MPGE1, and these only if the machine has WMP installed (and really, an awful lot of PCs do not). > .wmv .avi .mov .mpg .asf .mp4 Keep in mind that these are containers, not video formats. ".mpg" can contain all sorts of video formats. A MPEG1 will be huge for the amount of video it contains, but it will play on a Pentium, and maybe a 486. MPEG2 is useful if you want to ever put the video out to non-computers (DVDs). I encode in h.264 MPEG4 because I care more about high quality and excellent compression than about a 10 year old computer being able to play it, and a h.264/x264 will play on just about any reasonable computer. > I have some .3g2 files to convert and have all these choices but > don't know which one would be the best to give out to people. I > don't plan to use any special encoding I just want to make a simple > movie file anyone can play. Pretty much anyone who is willing to play video will be able to handle an h.264/x264 file. You will never get to *anyone* can play it because there are still people out there using Mac SEs, Atari 800s, or TRS-80s. You have to define what 'anyone' means to you. flv will play on more machines without effort than any other format, but lots of office PCs can't play flvs because they don't have Flash installed at all. Of course, these machines will probably not have any video support... Then of course there are all the divx/xvid variants. DivX is probably the most popular format for video right now. -- Yeah, Nick. Nick's the kinda guy you can trust. Nick's your buddy Nick's the kinda guy you drink beers with. The kinda guy that doesn' care if you puke in his car. Nick. From kremels at kreme.com Wed May 14 05:02:49 2008 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Wed May 14 05:02:51 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> Message-ID: <1BDA3DD0-74EA-4F6D-AF10-C4568CEDAE93@kreme.com> On 14-May-2008, at 00:40, Matt Johnston wrote: > Hands up who uses Safari? Without something like Adblock Plus and NoScript I simply cannot run Safari. -- Yeah, Nick. Nick's the kinda guy you can trust. Nick's your buddy Nick's the kinda guy you drink beers with. The kinda guy that doesn' care if you puke in his car. Nick. From aglee at mac.com Wed May 14 05:24:25 2008 From: aglee at mac.com (Andy Lee) Date: Wed May 14 05:24:31 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <1BDA3DD0-74EA-4F6D-AF10-C4568CEDAE93@kreme.com> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> <1BDA3DD0-74EA-4F6D-AF10-C4568CEDAE93@kreme.com> Message-ID: On May 14, 2008, at 8:02 AM, LuKreme wrote: > On 14-May-2008, at 00:40, Matt Johnston wrote: >> Hands up who uses Safari? > > > Without something like Adblock Plus and NoScript I simply cannot run > Safari. I use both Firefox and Safari. Firefox is my primary browser, mainly because of FlashBlock. Besides blocking Flash ads, it's nice to know I can open a YouTube link and not have it start playing automatically. Another thing I prefer about Firefox is that it keeps its Window menu in the order I opened windows rather than alphabetically. I rarely remember window titles, and I find it easier to find the window I want based on how recently I opened it. One thing I'd like would be an option to have the menu be reverse-chronological, so I could more quickly mouse to the most recent windows. I routinely have at least a couple dozen windows open at once. I do use Safari, mostly when I do want Flash to work unimpeded (like for Hulu.com) or when I want to copy something from a web page as rich text, with images and hyperlinks intact. --Andy From jearle at gmail.com Wed May 14 05:28:42 2008 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Wed May 14 05:28:45 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <5E18350D-92E0-4F31-B618-A8E775F88031@kreme.com> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <5E18350D-92E0-4F31-B618-A8E775F88031@kreme.com> Message-ID: <5bbc0cd60805140528r4f6efaa2x2e7f980d8c42a95c@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 1:00 PM, LuKreme wrote: >> .wmv .avi .mov .mpg .asf .mp4 > > Keep in mind that these are containers, not video formats. > > ".mpg" can contain all sorts of video formats. .mpg isn't a container and it can refer to either MPEG1 or MPEG2, both of which are video formats. .mp4 isn't a container, either, it's a group of methods that makes a video format. Basically, you can put an MPEG _in_ an AVI (et al) but you can't put an AVI _in_ an MPEG. -- Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK jearle@gmail.com :: http://www.23x.net Hosting :: http://cat5.org From ehrich at mninter.net Wed May 14 05:41:05 2008 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Wed May 14 05:41:09 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? In-Reply-To: <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> Message-ID: <482ADDE1.8000507@mninter.net> Hacker Scot wrote: > So Flash video deployment is a bit more involved than other formats, but > Flash video is probably your best bet for already-installed support on > the widest variety of computers/operating systems (why do you think it's > used by YouTube, vimeo, Flickr video and all the rest?) Despite the > extra hassle, if you're displaying video on the web there's little > question Flash video is definitely the way to go these days - it's > eclipsed the other formats because of extremely wide penetration of the > Flash player (around 98% of users). I keep the Flash plugin disabled because I haven't found any other way to stop Flash ads from distracting my attention. Other video formats which let me prevent motion or stop it after one cycle are OK. So 'penetration' includes me, but is misleading. -- Bill Ehrich From kcall at mac.com Wed May 14 07:59:10 2008 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Wed May 14 07:59:13 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? (Web browsers) In-Reply-To: References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> Message-ID: <5B1A7BEB-CBD5-40D8-A854-372EF2901CB5@mac.com> On May 14, 2008, at 3:47 AM, Rudolf O. Durrer wrote: > > Am 14.05.2008 um 08:40 schrieb Matt Johnston: >> -- >> Matt Johnston - 07515352971 >> >> On 14 May 2008, at 07:37, Hacker Scot wrote: >>> >>> On May 13, 2008, at 11:28 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: >>> >>>> 99+% of the crashes I get in Safari are FLASH plugin related >>> >>> >>> Well, Safari was 2.2% of the installed browser market in April >>> 2008, and is not yet what I'd call a mature browser (watch its >>> poor javascript support screw up your Google Docs documents or >>> TinyMCE posts in WordPress for example). I wouldn't worry much >>> about Safari. >> >> Hands up who uses Safari? > > I'm working with Apples since late seventies, with Macs since > 1988...and mostly I use Apple software for working...but Safari? > Camino, Firefox, Omni, iCab, Opera (to name just a few) are a > reliable replacements. > > But I see most Mac users using Safari, b'cause it's already > installed... :-) http://daringfireball.net/2008/04/firefox_3_safari_3 From shacker at birdhouse.org Wed May 14 09:24:42 2008 From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Hacker Scot) Date: Wed May 14 09:24:49 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? (Web browsers) In-Reply-To: <5B1A7BEB-CBD5-40D8-A854-372EF2901CB5@mac.com> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> <5B1A7BEB-CBD5-40D8-A854-372EF2901CB5@mac.com> Message-ID: <20E5F435-1573-4722-96EE-B7778024E291@birdhouse.org> On May 14, 2008, at 7:59 AM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > http://daringfireball.net/2008/04/firefox_3_safari_3 No doubt Safari has advantages in fit-and-finish. But for me it's a pretty cut and dried choice: - Once I started using del.icio.us bookmarking I became totally dependent on the FF del.icio.us bookmarking plugin. Giving that up would be a big step backwards in convenience and functionality. - I use the web developer's extension plugin many times per day. Wouldn't be willing to give that up - it's part of my workflow. - Between day job and my side business I manage or am involved in more than 100 WordPress installations. And I have to constantly tell my users, "Sorry you lost your paragraph formatting - Safari doesn't play nicely with the visual editor in WP - try another browser." - At work we sometimes lead journalists through the process of feeding data to Google Maps with Google Docs spreadsheets. Safari is constantly losing worksheet tabs, refusing to copy/paste between fields, and getting otherwise confused -- Safari can't fully handle the Ajax used at Google Docs, so again, we're telling our students we don't advise using it for that task. Maybe the last two aren't Safari's fault and it's actually handling Javascript so "correctly" that these things don't work. All I know is that Safari failing at these tasks means I'm forced to suggest another browser fairly often. And that Safari would have to be light years better than FF to compensate for its lack of plugin architecture. ./s -- >>> Birdhouse Hosting <<< Custom web and mail hosting services http://hosting.birdhouse.org From kremels at kreme.com Wed May 14 09:32:17 2008 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Wed May 14 09:32:21 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? (Web browsers) In-Reply-To: <20E5F435-1573-4722-96EE-B7778024E291@birdhouse.org> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> <5B1A7BEB-CBD5-40D8-A854-372EF2901CB5@mac.com> <20E5F435-1573-4722-96EE-B7778024E291@birdhouse.org> Message-ID: <43569887-CEE4-4A57-B606-E64175191A7E@kreme.com> On 14-May-2008, at 10:24, Hacker Scot wrote: > - Between day job and my side business I manage or am involved in > more than 100 WordPress installations. And I have to constantly tell > my users, "Sorry you lost your paragraph formatting - Safari doesn't > play nicely with the visual editor in WP - try another browser." That's interesting since WP is one of the few things I DO use Safari for as I find it better behaved than Firefox, which has gotten fatally confused when switching from wysi[sorta]wyg to code and back on far too many occasions. Safari 3.x and WP 2.5.x -- Because you can't cotton to evil. No Sir. You have to smack evil on the nose with the rolled-up newspaper of justice and say, 'Bad evil. Bad BAD evil'" From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk Wed May 14 09:39:49 2008 From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford) Date: Wed May 14 09:40:08 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? (Web browsers) In-Reply-To: <20E5F435-1573-4722-96EE-B7778024E291@birdhouse.org> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> <5B1A7BEB-CBD5-40D8-A854-372EF2901CB5@mac.com> <20E5F435-1573-4722-96EE-B7778024E291@birdhouse.org> Message-ID: On 14 May 2008, at 17:24, Hacker Scot wrote: > > > - I use the web developer's extension plugin many times per day. > Wouldn't be willing to give that up - it's part of my workflow. anything specifically you use there, that isn't in the ?develop? tools in Safari 3? I thought I'd miss Firefox's plug ins, but with Safari's developer tools - inspect element and the safari tidy plug-in, there isn't much I actually miss http://www.zappatic.net/safaritidy/ and have you seen Safari 3.0's 'network timeline' ? From kcall at mac.com Wed May 14 09:50:46 2008 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Wed May 14 09:50:57 2008 Subject: Web browsers In-Reply-To: <20E5F435-1573-4722-96EE-B7778024E291@birdhouse.org> References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> <5B1A7BEB-CBD5-40D8-A854-372EF2901CB5@mac.com> <20E5F435-1573-4722-96EE-B7778024E291@birdhouse.org> Message-ID: <6510ECB7-3690-4C44-9BC5-9AB751E043AC@mac.com> On May 14, 2008, at 9:24 AM, Hacker Scot wrote: > - Between day job and my side business I manage or am involved in > more than 100 WordPress installations. And I have to constantly tell > my users, "Sorry you lost your paragraph formatting - Safari doesn't > play nicely with the visual editor in WP - try another browser." I have a friend who switched to Mac a few months ago. He use Auctiva for his ebay stores. To batch upload his images, he needs to use Safari as the java plugin for Auctiva fails with Firefox. On the other hand, after he uploads the images via Safari, he has to do all his editing in Firefox as the visual editor for Auctiva doesn't work in Safari. K From shacker at birdhouse.org Wed May 14 10:23:46 2008 From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Scot Hacker) Date: Wed May 14 10:23:51 2008 Subject: Most "universal" type of video file? (Web browsers) In-Reply-To: References: <61B027A6-B1B4-4360-85FD-D383DB9DACF2@autonomy.caltech.edu> <8B1B3C90-97B7-4BB7-A1BD-7EB6395A1BA4@softhome.net> <411C6518-6B8A-4D7E-AFF8-3A3669B63176@birdhouse.org> <78E7F746-3BED-4281-B632-525F7AE5BA13@mac.com> <5B1A7BEB-CBD5-40D8-A854-372EF2901CB5@mac.com> <20E5F435-1573-4722-96EE-B7778024E291@birdhouse.org> Message-ID: <1CABB2F4-1072-44EE-9064-0F4CB6B983EF@birdhouse.org> On May 14, 2008, at 9:39 AM, Tony Crockford wrote: > anything specifically you use there, that isn't in the ?develop? > tools in Safari 3? Here are a few : - Edit HTML/CSS in place (even on pages that aren't yours) - Outline all blocks / divs / images, etc. - Reveal all images missing alt tags - View page as it would look at 800x600 or other dimension - Roll over the page to see various grouped outlines and see their CSS hierarchy in a status bar - Toggle to Border Box model (for IE compliance testing) - Use an inline ruler - Outline deprecated elements - Pipe to CSS and HTML validators - View document size (not as pretty as Safari's Network Timeline, but more useful IMO) - Delete cookies for current domain (invaluable when developing cookie stuff) .... tons more. No doubt many of these things can be done in other ways with Safari's web developer mode, but the FF web developer's extension appears to be much more detailed, with many more options. ./s -- >>> Birdhouse Hosting <<< Customized web and mail solutions http://hosting.birdhouse.org/ From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Thu May 15 00:14:34 2008 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc) Date: Thu May 15 00:14:37 2008 Subject: can anyone help connecting from Safari to a Cisco PIX 501? Message-ID: <22B843E4-587D-423C-ADF4-233E1F61F567@objectwerks.com> A customer gave me a PIX 501 to install for him and I want to configure it. however, it uses a java applet which seems to be old and not work on OS X Safari. I have set the java preferences to use 1.4.2 (since 1.5 did not work and this seemed to be a suggestion when I googled) but I get the same error... This is what the java console shows: Netscape security model is no longer supported. Please migrate to the Java 2 security model instead. Netscape security model is no longer supported. Please migrate to the Java 2 security model instead. java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method) at sun .reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java: 39) at sun .reflect .DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java: 25) at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:324) at com.cisco.pdm.e.b.a(Unknown Source) at com.cisco.pdm.e.b.a(Unknown Source) at com.cisco.pdm.a.(Unknown Source) at com.cisco.pdm.StartupWizApplet.start(Unknown Source) at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Env.start(Env.java:41) at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Loader.start(Loader.java:109) at sun.applet.AppletPanel.run(AppletPanel.java:394) at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:552) Caused by: java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (javax.net.ssl.SSLPermission setHostnameVerifier) at java .security .AccessControlContext.checkPermission(AccessControlContext.java:269) at java.security.AccessController.checkPermission(AccessController.java: 401) at java.lang.SecurityManager.checkPermission(SecurityManager.java:524) at javax.net.ssl.HttpsURLConnection.setDefaultHostnameVerifier(DashoA12275) at com .cisco .pdm .java2 .https.PDMHostnameVerifier.getURLConnection(PDMHostnameVerifier.java:30) ... 12 more Netscape security model is no longer supported. Please migrate to the Java 2 security model instead. java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.net.SocketPermission 192.168.1.1 resolve) at java .security .AccessControlContext.checkPermission(AccessControlContext.java:269) at java.security.AccessController.checkPermission(AccessController.java: 401) at java.lang.SecurityManager.checkPermission(SecurityManager.java:524) at java.lang.SecurityManager.checkConnect(SecurityManager.java:1023) at sun.net.www.protocol.https.PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.checkPermission (PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.java:179) at sun .net .www .protocol .https .PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection .connect(PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.java:127) at sun.net.www.protocol.https.PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.getInputStream (PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.java:357) at sun .net .www.protocol.https.HttpsURLConnectionImpl.getInputStream(DashoA12275) at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Env.getInputStreamFromURLConnection(Env.java: 83) at com .cisco .nm.util.sgz.SgzApplet.getInputStreamFromURLConnection(SgzApplet.java: 164) at com.cisco.pdm.PDMApplet.getInputStreamFromURLConnection(Unknown Source) at com.cisco.pdm.e.b.a(Unknown Source) at com.cisco.pdm.a.(Unknown Source) at com.cisco.pdm.StartupWizApplet.start(Unknown Source) at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Env.start(Env.java:41) at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Loader.start(Loader.java:109) at sun.applet.AppletPanel.run(AppletPanel.java:394) at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:552) Any help appreciated Chad From pelorus at mac.com Thu May 15 01:08:07 2008 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu May 15 01:09:13 2008 Subject: can anyone help connecting from Safari to a Cisco PIX 501? In-Reply-To: <22B843E4-587D-423C-ADF4-233E1F61F567@objectwerks.com> References: <22B843E4-587D-423C-ADF4-233E1F61F567@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <7BB3BE76-7ABA-483A-B1E9-4A82BFF9C91B@mac.com> Iirc I used to use the java applet runner in /apps/utils -- Matt Johnston - 07515352971 On 15 May 2008, at 08:14, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc wrote: > > A customer gave me a PIX 501 to install for him and I want to > configure it. > > however, it uses a java applet which seems to be old and not work on > OS X Safari. I have set the java preferences to use 1.4.2 (since > 1.5 did not work and this seemed to be a suggestion when I googled) > but I get the same error... > > This is what the java console shows: > > Netscape security model is no longer supported. > Please migrate to the Java 2 security model instead. > > Netscape security model is no longer supported. > Please migrate to the Java 2 security model instead. > > java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException > at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method) > at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke > (NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:39) > at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke > (DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:25) > at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:324) > at com.cisco.pdm.e.b.a(Unknown Source) > at com.cisco.pdm.e.b.a(Unknown Source) > at com.cisco.pdm.a.(Unknown Source) > at com.cisco.pdm.StartupWizApplet.start(Unknown Source) > at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Env.start(Env.java:41) > at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Loader.start(Loader.java:109) > at sun.applet.AppletPanel.run(AppletPanel.java:394) > at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:552) > Caused by: java.security.AccessControlException: access denied > (javax.net.ssl.SSLPermission setHostnameVerifier) > at java.security.AccessControlContext.checkPermission > (AccessControlContext.java:269) > at java.security.AccessController.checkPermission > (AccessController.java:401) > at java.lang.SecurityManager.checkPermission(SecurityManager.java: > 524) > at javax.net.ssl.HttpsURLConnection.setDefaultHostnameVerifier > (DashoA12275) > at com.cisco.pdm.java2.https.PDMHostnameVerifier.getURLConnection > (PDMHostnameVerifier.java:30) > ... 12 more > Netscape security model is no longer supported. > Please migrate to the Java 2 security model instead. > > java.security.AccessControlException: access denied > (java.net.SocketPermission 192.168.1.1 resolve) > at java.security.AccessControlContext.checkPermission > (AccessControlContext.java:269) > at java.security.AccessController.checkPermission > (AccessController.java:401) > at java.lang.SecurityManager.checkPermission(SecurityManager.java: > 524) > at java.lang.SecurityManager.checkConnect(SecurityManager.java: > 1023) > at sun.net.www.protocol.https.PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.checkPermission > (PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.java:179) > at sun.net.www.protocol.https.PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.connect > (PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.java:127) > at sun.net.www.protocol.https.PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.getInputStream > (PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.java:357) > at > sun.net.www.protocol.https.HttpsURLConnectionImpl.getInputStream > (DashoA12275) > at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Env.getInputStreamFromURLConnection > (Env.java:83) > at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.SgzApplet.getInputStreamFromURLConnection > (SgzApplet.java:164) > at com.cisco.pdm.PDMApplet.getInputStreamFromURLConnection > (Unknown Source) > at com.cisco.pdm.e.b.a(Unknown Source) > at com.cisco.pdm.a.(Unknown Source) > at com.cisco.pdm.StartupWizApplet.start(Unknown Source) > at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Env.start(Env.java:41) > at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Loader.start(Loader.java:109) > at sun.applet.AppletPanel.run(AppletPanel.java:394) > at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:552) > > > Any help appreciated > > Chad > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Thu May 15 01:14:24 2008 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (objectwerks inc) Date: Thu May 15 01:14:27 2008 Subject: can anyone help connecting from Safari to a Cisco PIX 501? In-Reply-To: <7BB3BE76-7ABA-483A-B1E9-4A82BFF9C91B@mac.com> References: <22B843E4-587D-423C-ADF4-233E1F61F567@objectwerks.com> <7BB3BE76-7ABA-483A-B1E9-4A82BFF9C91B@mac.com> Message-ID: On May 15, 2008, at 2:08 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > Iirc I used to use the java applet runner in /apps/utils > I "tried" that (meaning I did not know what to do -- the URL of the offending PIX did not do anything). I was probably doing it wrong and any sort of help would be accepted ;-) on how to use that to do that Chad > -- > Matt Johnston - 07515352971 > > On 15 May 2008, at 08:14, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc > wrote: > >> >> A customer gave me a PIX 501 to install for him and I want to >> configure it. >> >> however, it uses a java applet which seems to be old and not work >> on OS X Safari. I have set the java preferences to use 1.4.2 >> (since 1.5 did not work and this seemed to be a suggestion when I >> googled) but I get the same error... >> >> This is what the java console shows: >> >> Netscape security model is no longer supported. >> Please migrate to the Java 2 security model instead. >> >> Netscape security model is no longer supported. >> Please migrate to the Java 2 security model instead. >> >> java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException >> at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method) >> at >> sun >> .reflect >> .NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:39) >> at >> sun >> .reflect >> .DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl >> .invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:25) >> at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:324) >> at com.cisco.pdm.e.b.a(Unknown Source) >> at com.cisco.pdm.e.b.a(Unknown Source) >> at com.cisco.pdm.a.(Unknown Source) >> at com.cisco.pdm.StartupWizApplet.start(Unknown Source) >> at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Env.start(Env.java:41) >> at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Loader.start(Loader.java:109) >> at sun.applet.AppletPanel.run(AppletPanel.java:394) >> at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:552) >> Caused by: java.security.AccessControlException: access denied >> (javax.net.ssl.SSLPermission setHostnameVerifier) >> at >> java >> .security >> .AccessControlContext.checkPermission(AccessControlContext.java:269) >> at >> java >> .security.AccessController.checkPermission(AccessController.java:401) >> at java.lang.SecurityManager.checkPermission(SecurityManager.java: >> 524) >> at >> javax >> .net.ssl.HttpsURLConnection.setDefaultHostnameVerifier(DashoA12275) >> at >> com >> .cisco >> .pdm >> .java2 >> .https >> .PDMHostnameVerifier.getURLConnection(PDMHostnameVerifier.java:30) >> ... 12 more >> Netscape security model is no longer supported. >> Please migrate to the Java 2 security model instead. >> >> java.security.AccessControlException: access denied >> (java.net.SocketPermission 192.168.1.1 resolve) >> at >> java >> .security >> .AccessControlContext.checkPermission(AccessControlContext.java:269) >> at >> java >> .security.AccessController.checkPermission(AccessController.java:401) >> at java.lang.SecurityManager.checkPermission(SecurityManager.java: >> 524) >> at java.lang.SecurityManager.checkConnect(SecurityManager.java: >> 1023) >> at sun.net.www.protocol.https.PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.checkPermission >> (PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.java:179) >> at sun.net.www.protocol.https.PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.connect >> (PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.java:127) >> at sun.net.www.protocol.https.PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.getInputStream >> (PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.java:357) >> at >> sun >> .net >> .www >> .protocol.https.HttpsURLConnectionImpl.getInputStream(DashoA12275) >> at >> com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Env.getInputStreamFromURLConnection(Env.java: >> 83) >> at >> com >> .cisco >> .nm >> .util.sgz.SgzApplet.getInputStreamFromURLConnection(SgzApplet.java: >> 164) >> at >> com.cisco.pdm.PDMApplet.getInputStreamFromURLConnection(Unknown >> Source) >> at com.cisco.pdm.e.b.a(Unknown Source) >> at com.cisco.pdm.a.(Unknown Source) >> at com.cisco.pdm.StartupWizApplet.start(Unknown Source) >> at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Env.start(Env.java:41) >> at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Loader.start(Loader.java:109) >> at sun.applet.AppletPanel.run(AppletPanel.java:394) >> at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:552) >> >> >> Any help appreciated >> >> Chad >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From pelorus at mac.com Thu May 15 01:48:43 2008 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu May 15 01:50:03 2008 Subject: can anyone help connecting from Safari to a Cisco PIX 501? In-Reply-To: References: <22B843E4-587D-423C-ADF4-233E1F61F567@objectwerks.com> <7BB3BE76-7ABA-483A-B1E9-4A82BFF9C91B@mac.com> Message-ID: I had to dig around in the source of the HTML page for another URL -- Matt Johnston - 07515352971 On 15 May 2008, at 09:14, objectwerks inc wrote: > > On May 15, 2008, at 2:08 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > >> Iirc I used to use the java applet runner in /apps/utils >> > > I "tried" that (meaning I did not know what to do -- the URL of the > offending PIX did not do anything). I was probably doing it wrong > and any sort of help would be accepted ;-) on how to use that to do > that > > Chad > > >> -- >> Matt Johnston - 07515352971 >> >> On 15 May 2008, at 08:14, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc > > wrote: >> >>> >>> A customer gave me a PIX 501 to install for him and I want to >>> configure it. >>> >>> however, it uses a java applet which seems to be old and not work >>> on OS X Safari. I have set the java preferences to use 1.4.2 >>> (since 1.5 did not work and this seemed to be a suggestion when I >>> googled) but I get the same error... >>> >>> This is what the java console shows: >>> >>> Netscape security model is no longer supported. >>> Please migrate to the Java 2 security model instead. >>> >>> Netscape security model is no longer supported. >>> Please migrate to the Java 2 security model instead. >>> >>> java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException >>> at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method) >>> at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke >>> (NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:39) >>> at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke >>> (DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:25) >>> at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:324) >>> at com.cisco.pdm.e.b.a(Unknown Source) >>> at com.cisco.pdm.e.b.a(Unknown Source) >>> at com.cisco.pdm.a.(Unknown Source) >>> at com.cisco.pdm.StartupWizApplet.start(Unknown Source) >>> at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Env.start(Env.java:41) >>> at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Loader.start(Loader.java:109) >>> at sun.applet.AppletPanel.run(AppletPanel.java:394) >>> at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:552) >>> Caused by: java.security.AccessControlException: access denied >>> (javax.net.ssl.SSLPermission setHostnameVerifier) >>> at java.security.AccessControlContext.checkPermission >>> (AccessControlContext.java:269) >>> at java.security.AccessController.checkPermission >>> (AccessController.java:401) >>> at java.lang.SecurityManager.checkPermission(SecurityManager.java: >>> 524) >>> at javax.net.ssl.HttpsURLConnection.setDefaultHostnameVerifier >>> (DashoA12275) >>> at com.cisco.pdm.java2.https.PDMHostnameVerifier.getURLConnection >>> (PDMHostnameVerifier.java:30) >>> ... 12 more >>> Netscape security model is no longer supported. >>> Please migrate to the Java 2 security model instead. >>> >>> java.security.AccessControlException: access denied >>> (java.net.SocketPermission 192.168.1.1 resolve) >>> at java.security.AccessControlContext.checkPermission >>> (AccessControlContext.java:269) >>> at java.security.AccessController.checkPermission >>> (AccessController.java:401) >>> at java.lang.SecurityManager.checkPermission(SecurityManager.java: >>> 524) >>> at java.lang.SecurityManager.checkConnect(SecurityManager.java: >>> 1023) >>> at sun.net.www.protocol.https.PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.checkPermission >>> (PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.java:179) >>> at sun.net.www.protocol.https.PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.connect >>> (PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.java:127) >>> at sun.net.www.protocol.https.PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.getInputStream >>> (PluginDelegateHttpsURLConnection.java:357) >>> at >>> sun.net.www.protocol.https.HttpsURLConnectionImpl.getInputStream >>> (DashoA12275) >>> at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Env.getInputStreamFromURLConnection >>> (Env.java:83) >>> at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.SgzApplet.getInputStreamFromURLConnection >>> (SgzApplet.java:164) >>> at com.cisco.pdm.PDMApplet.getInputStreamFromURLConnection >>> (Unknown Source) >>> at com.cisco.pdm.e.b.a(Unknown Source) >>> at com.cisco.pdm.a.(Unknown Source) >>> at com.cisco.pdm.StartupWizApplet.start(Unknown Source) >>> at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Env.start(Env.java:41) >>> at com.cisco.nm.util.sgz.Loader.start(Loader.java:109) >>> at sun.applet.AppletPanel.run(AppletPanel.java:394) >>> at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:552) >>> >>> >>> Any help appreciated >>> >>> Chad >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From kcall at mac.com Thu May 15 08:44:06 2008 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu May 15 08:44:09 2008 Subject: Mac browsers and Auctiva Message-ID: well, we thought we had the process solved, but it's looking like more trouble than it's worth - my friend might have to switch back to PC simply because he can't get any Mac browser to successfully BATCH UPLOAD images via Auctiva's java plugin. Works fine on his 6 year old PC with XP/IE 6 Is there any Mac user out there using Auctiva on a Mac and BATCH UPLOADING their images to their stores? http://www.auctiva.com/ K From kcall at mac.com Thu May 15 09:06:36 2008 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu May 15 09:20:45 2008 Subject: eBay listing tool for Mac OS X Message-ID: <5D682C71-E772-44EB-A08F-D95D6B1D4013@mac.com> What's the best tool for setting up auctions and stores on eBay using a Mac running Leopard? Thanks, Kevin From tonyc at boldfish.co.uk Thu May 15 09:22:44 2008 From: tonyc at boldfish.co.uk (Tony Crockford) Date: Thu May 15 09:23:07 2008 Subject: Mac browsers and Auctiva In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <980A6EEF-EA7A-4317-8EAA-E9766ECFE60B@boldfish.co.uk> On 15 May 2008, at 16:44, Kevin Callahan wrote: > well, we thought we had the process solved, but it's looking like > more trouble than it's worth - my friend might have to switch back > to PC simply because he can't get any Mac browser to successfully > BATCH UPLOAD images via Auctiva's java plugin. Works fine on his 6 > year old PC with XP/IE 6 > > Is there any Mac user out there using Auctiva on a Mac and BATCH > UPLOADING their images to their stores? > > http://www.auctiva.com/ FWIW I use GarageSale with my own Hosting (any FTP space would do though) and found it very easy. http://www.iwascoding.com/GarageSale/ From markds.lists at googlemail.com Thu May 15 09:34:20 2008 From: markds.lists at googlemail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Thu May 15 09:34:28 2008 Subject: eBay listing tool for Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <5D682C71-E772-44EB-A08F-D95D6B1D4013@mac.com> References: <5D682C71-E772-44EB-A08F-D95D6B1D4013@mac.com> Message-ID: <87CE6993-C8AE-4A0D-974C-70C381F6E65E@gmail.com> On 15. May. 08, at 18:06 , Kevin Callahan wrote: > What's the best tool for setting up auctions and stores on eBay > using a Mac running Leopard? For my money its iSale... by a head from GarageSale: I'm not that sold on Equinux as a company (heavy marketing, frequent payment-required minor updates), but their stuff is good IMO. I'm not sure that either of these explicitly allow you to set-up stores, but there isn't much else as this search shows: Mark. From chad at objectwerks.com Thu May 15 13:17:45 2008 From: chad at objectwerks.com (objectwerks inc) Date: Thu May 15 13:17:49 2008 Subject: Mac browsers and Auctiva In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On May 15, 2008, at 9:44 AM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > well, we thought we had the process solved, but it's looking like > more trouble than it's worth - my friend might have to switch back > to PC simply because he can't get any Mac browser to successfully > BATCH UPLOAD images via Auctiva's java plugin. Works fine on his 6 > year old PC with XP/IE 6 Well, if there is a problem 1) complain to auctiva about their crappy java 2) use VMWare Fusion or Parallels (I've switched most of my stuff to Fusion) to run that part. No need to throw the baby out with the bath water Chad > > > Is there any Mac user out there using Auctiva on a Mac and BATCH > UPLOADING their images to their stores? > > http://www.auctiva.com/ > > K > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From kcall at mac.com Thu May 15 14:16:21 2008 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu May 15 14:16:24 2008 Subject: Mac browsers and Auctiva In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On May 15, 2008, at 1:17 PM, objectwerks inc wrote: > > On May 15, 2008, at 9:44 AM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> well, we thought we had the process solved, but it's looking like >> more trouble than it's worth - my friend might have to switch back >> to PC simply because he can't get any Mac browser to successfully >> BATCH UPLOAD images via Auctiva's java plugin. Works fine on his 6 >> year old PC with XP/IE 6 > > Well, if there is a problem > > 1) complain to auctiva about their crappy java did :-) > > > 2) use VMWare Fusion or Parallels (I've switched most of my stuff to > Fusion) to run that part. No need to throw the baby out with the > bath water > > Chad Per Tony and Mark's suggestions, my friend is looking at GarageSale and iSale - he is very pleased with these options thus far! Thanks! Kevin From glennc at mac.com Thu May 15 16:14:51 2008 From: glennc at mac.com (Glenn Carnagey) Date: Thu May 15 16:14:57 2008 Subject: Mac browsers and Auctiva In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On May 15, 2008, at 3:17 PM, objectwerks inc wrote: > On May 15, 2008, at 9:44 AM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> well, we thought we had the process solved, but it's looking like >> more trouble than it's worth - my friend might have to switch back >> to PC simply because he can't get any Mac browser to successfully >> BATCH UPLOAD images via Auctiva's java plugin. Works fine on his 6 >> year old PC with XP/IE 6 > > Well, if there is a problem > > 1) complain to auctiva about their crappy java > > 2) use VMWare Fusion or Parallels (I've switched most of my stuff to > Fusion) to run that part. No need to throw the baby out with the > bath water Chad, it sounds like you have experience with both Fusion and Parallels, and chose Fusion. I'd be very interested in hearing about that. (just retired my PB and got an MBP yesterday and need to choose myself :-) g./ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20080515/0629077e/attachment.html From jearle at gmail.com Thu May 15 23:42:03 2008 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Thu May 15 23:42:07 2008 Subject: Mac browsers and Auctiva In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5bbc0cd60805152342y6be5b449h46c1a0dad8e49dd0@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 12:14 AM, Glenn Carnagey wrote: > Chad, it sounds like you have experience with both Fusion and Parallels, and > chose Fusion. I'd be very interested in hearing about that. (just retired > my PB and got an MBP yesterday and need to choose myself :-) I use both. Parallels for the apps, VMWare for the servers. VMWare is ostensibly better overall but I like parallels for just running a browser. -- Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK jearle@gmail.com :: http://www.23x.net Hosting :: http://cat5.org