Leopard rejects latest version of Java

[David Cake]

At 9:28 AM -0400 31/10/07, Andy Lee wrote:
>>	The more likely and rational interpretation is simply that 
>>Apple hoped to have 1.6 ready for the Leopard launch, put fewer 
>>resources into Java 1.5 on Leopard due to assuming 1.6 would be 
>>ready, and then 1.6 slipped, and in a few weeks 1.6 will be done 
>>and Java on Leopard will be fine.
>
>Again I agree -- this is a reasonable interpretation.

	And I'd note that having Java updates show up shortly after a 
new OS release has happened before.

>>	And if there is a single specialist area that is absolutely 
>>crucial to your use of the platform, then, just like everyone else 
>>in that position (the pro audio and video people, anyone who uses 
>>odd hardware, etc) you should wait a few weeks after the launch of 
>>a new OS to ensure your essentials are there, because if things 
>>slip in a niche area the right thing for the company to do is ship 
>>it and catch up on the niche stuff after launch.
>
>Again, very sensible.
>
>>	The sad truth, however, is that the Java community tends to 
>>think of itself as much more important than it is. Sure, it will be 
>>mildly bad for Leopard in some large deployment situations if Java 
>>sucks on it. But those large deployments aren't going to happen in 
>>the first week of release either. And its a pity that java 
>>developers are hurting right now, but its mostly just them.
>
>Okay.  First, I doubt that large *deployment* situations were 
>betting the company on 1.6 being in Leopard.  I suspect most 
>complainers are like me -- people who prefer to do Java 
>*development* on the Mac than on some other platform.

	Exactly - I doubt that any deployments etc were threatened. 
What happened was that people who are Java developers either
a) rushed in and installed Leopard without checking the status of 
Java, and found themselves in a difficult situation if they were 
committed to 1.6
or
b) got really cranky that they had to choose between installing 
Leopard in the first week of release, or working the way they 
preferred in that week.

>Second, it's funny how some members of a minority are perfectly 
>happy to dismiss a smaller minority.  For any given Mac complaint, 
>Windows users could say "it's mostly just them."  So what?  That has 
>nothing to do with the validity of the complaint, nuts or otherwise.

	Its a matter of priorities - if you are in a minority, you 
should expect you will be lower priority, but you still have a right 
to be angry if you are just ignored. Being lower priority should mean 
'later' not 'never'. And many in the Java community are being angry 
as hell because they find themselves in the 'later' camp, at this 
point by less than a working week. In other words, the Java community 
are angry because they are being treated like a minority specialist 
group - because they don't think they are, or should be. Reality 
asserts itself, shouting ensues.

>It wasn't the Java community that declared Apple's commitment to 
>Java, and by implication the "importance" of the Java community -- 
>it was Steve Jobs.  And I suspect if a perfect working Java 1.6 had 
>been in Leopard, the "Apple community" would have been happy to brag 
>about how delighted -- and important -- the Java community was.

	Sure.
	But what they got in week 1 was a significantly improved 1.5, 
and instead of appreciating it, we got FUD about how bad it was.
http://www.symphonious.net/2007/10/31/java-5-on-leopard/

>
>>	I'm particularly stunned at how the Java developer community 
>>has been rabbiting on about how this issue means Apple isn't 
>>committed to developers in general.
>
>I would put such rabbiting in the "nuts" category.  However, I'd add 
>that pissing off developers is not a new thing for Apple.  I don't 
>have plans for doing iPhone development, but I still felt pretty 
>insulted by the "sweet" development environment Steve offered at 
>WWDC.

	Yeah. In general, Leopard is terrific for developers, 
especially Cocoa developers  (and Python and Ruby developers also 
seem like they have got a lot of love), but its even a pretty 
reasonable release for Java developers if you assume 1.6 is on its 
way - there have been a lot of good things for Java 1.5, including 64 
bitness.
	And yeah, the iPhone thing was stupid and insulting and a big 
misjudgement by Steve.

	Cheers
		David