From wiswp at niue.nu Mon Oct 1 00:18:49 2007 From: wiswp at niue.nu (Bill Wisse) Date: Mon Oct 1 00:18:39 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3464EFD4-ADE4-4120-B3F4-02E8B8166244@niue.nu> On 30/09/2007, at 6:42 PM, Hex Star wrote: > When is Mac OS X Leopard supposed to be released to the public? When ready. Greetings from /bill at 169 west , 19 south. Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors From andrew.brown at c18.net Mon Oct 1 00:40:41 2007 From: andrew.brown at c18.net (Andrew Brown) Date: Mon Oct 1 00:40:48 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: <3464EFD4-ADE4-4120-B3F4-02E8B8166244@niue.nu> References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <3464EFD4-ADE4-4120-B3F4-02E8B8166244@niue.nu> Message-ID: On 1 Oct 2007, at 09:18, Bill Wisse wrote: > On 30/09/2007, at 6:42 PM, Hex Star wrote: > >> When is Mac OS X Leopard supposed to be released to the public? > > When ready. If not sooner ;-) AB From finlay.dobbie at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 01:29:24 2007 From: finlay.dobbie at gmail.com (Finlay Dobbie) Date: Mon Oct 1 01:29:27 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 01/10/2007, Hex Star wrote: > When is Mac OS X Leopard supposed to be released to the public? October. -- Finlay From kremels at kreme.com Mon Oct 1 05:07:56 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Mon Oct 1 05:08:10 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 30-Sep-2007, at 23:42, Hex Star wrote: > When is Mac OS X Leopard supposed to be released to the public? "October" -- "Eureka," he said. "Going to have a bath then?" From lomion at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 05:11:54 2007 From: lomion at gmail.com (Larry Sica) Date: Mon Oct 1 05:11:57 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> On 10/1/07, LuKreme wrote: > On 30-Sep-2007, at 23:42, Hex Star wrote: > > When is Mac OS X Leopard supposed to be released to the public? > > "October" > Dates range between September and November of 2007. Nothing else has been really stated. --Larry "there are three things to cry for in life - things that are lost, things that are found, and things that are magnificent.~douglas coupland" ------------------------------------------------ lomion@gmail.com http://blog.citruspub.net ------------------------------------------------ From finlay.dobbie at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 06:02:57 2007 From: finlay.dobbie at gmail.com (Finlay Dobbie) Date: Mon Oct 1 06:03:05 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 01/10/2007, Larry Sica wrote: > On 10/1/07, LuKreme wrote: > > On 30-Sep-2007, at 23:42, Hex Star wrote: > > > When is Mac OS X Leopard supposed to be released to the public? > > > > "October" > > > > Dates range between September and November of 2007. Nothing else has > been really stated. http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/04-12-2007/0004564657 "ship Leopard in October" -- Finlay From finlay.dobbie at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 06:03:42 2007 From: finlay.dobbie at gmail.com (Finlay Dobbie) Date: Mon Oct 1 06:03:47 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 01/10/2007, Finlay Dobbie wrote: > On 01/10/2007, Larry Sica wrote: > > On 10/1/07, LuKreme wrote: > > > On 30-Sep-2007, at 23:42, Hex Star wrote: > > > > When is Mac OS X Leopard supposed to be released to the public? > > > > > > "October" > > > > > > > Dates range between September and November of 2007. Nothing else has > > been really stated. > > http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/04-12-2007/0004564657 > > "ship Leopard in October" Oh and http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/06/11leopard.html "Scheduled to ship in October" -- Finlay From apple at tisys.org Mon Oct 1 06:42:22 2007 From: apple at tisys.org (Nils Holland) Date: Mon Oct 1 06:49:07 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> On Oct 1, 2007, at 15:03 , Finlay Dobbie wrote: > Oh and > > http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/06/11leopard.html > > "Scheduled to ship in October" Keep in mind that just on the 21st of September, a new preview seed of Leopard was released to (paying) developers outside of Apple. Nobody knows if this will be the last preview version of (because of problems that get discovered) additional preview releases are required. And then, once a final version has actually been reached, it'll take some time to get the product to manufacturing and then distributed to all the local Apple Stores and dealers. While I don't know how much time that process alone would take - given that Apple's not really at that point yet anyway - I wouldn't be surprised if the public release date slips a further bit and October isn't quite a realistic goal. Just wild guesses from my side, however - since Apple's about as secretive as ever about the actual Leopard release date, you might actually hold a copy in your hands in a week or two - or only in mid- November. Nobody knows for sure. ;-) Greetings, Nils From shawnce at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 07:50:04 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Mon Oct 1 07:51:28 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> Message-ID: <0DEDC6AC-DD12-40BC-AF93-0296C651E4DD@gmail.com> On Oct 1, 2007, at 6:42 AM, Nils Holland wrote: > On Oct 1, 2007, at 15:03 , Finlay Dobbie wrote: > >> Oh and >> >> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/06/11leopard.html >> >> "Scheduled to ship in October" > > Keep in mind that just on the 21st of September, a new preview seed > of Leopard was released to (paying) developers outside of Apple. > Nobody knows if this will be the last preview version of (because > of problems that get discovered) additional preview releases are > required. And then, once a final version has actually been reached, > it'll take some time to get the product to manufacturing and then > distributed to all the local Apple Stores and dealers. While I > don't know how much time that process alone would take - given that > Apple's not really at that point yet anyway - I wouldn't be > surprised if the public release date slips a further bit and > October isn't quite a realistic goal. Apple has released developer seeds only 3 weeks before shipping (2.5 weeks IIRC). So a developer preview released last week or even one released this coming week wouldn't really imply a delay. -Shawn From larkost at softhome.net Mon Oct 1 08:02:25 2007 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Mon Oct 1 08:02:55 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: <0DEDC6AC-DD12-40BC-AF93-0296C651E4DD@gmail.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> <0DEDC6AC-DD12-40BC-AF93-0296C651E4DD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5456F790-DA40-49AA-8AD6-4986E75BE5F1@softhome.net> On Oct 1, 2007, at 10:50 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > Apple has released developer seeds only 3 weeks before shipping > (2.5 weeks IIRC). So a developer preview released last week or even > one released this coming week wouldn't really imply a delay. Even more than that, just because they have something in the box does not mean that the development team is done churning. Apple demonstrated with the 10.4 that they are willing to ship an OS then turn around and ship a .1 upgrade two weeks later (April 29th to May 16th). I would not be surprised if Apple provided a .1 upgrade within 2 weeks of shipping 10.5 (with that representing 4 weeks or so of extra development time). -- Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net From kremels at kreme.com Mon Oct 1 09:29:39 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Mon Oct 1 09:29:52 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> Message-ID: <71C0F4A3-60C2-4A1B-A193-434BD22EFE37@kreme.com> On 1-Oct-2007, at 07:42, Nils Holland wrote: > And then, once a final version has actually been reached, it'll > take some time to get the product to manufacturing and then > distributed to all the local Apple Stores and dealers. As I recall, the last seed of Tiger was less than a month before the on-shelf date. -- Instant karma's gonna get you From davec2468 at aim.com Mon Oct 1 10:06:26 2007 From: davec2468 at aim.com (davec) Date: Mon Oct 1 10:07:14 2007 Subject: Automate Recent Items folder to reduce AppleWorks' sluggishness Message-ID: As you may know, getting AppleWorks to run well and fast is mostly a factor of how recently the Recent Items folder has been emptied (or at least the items are reduced in number). Here's an AppleScript script to automate this. It uses OS X's Folder Actions feature. When you install this script (Library/Scripts/Folder Action Scripts) and attach it to the Recent Items folder, every time an item is added to this folder this script will launch and delete one of the items (the oldest one) from the folder. 1. Ctrl-click or right-click on the Recent Items folder (~/Documents/AppleWorks User Data/Starting Points/Recent Items 2. Choose Attach a Folder Action 3. Navigate to and choose the Keep10 script As currently configured, the script will make sure that the last 10 items are remembered. You can edit the script to remember any number of recent items. Enjoy, Dave From bentley at crenelle.com Mon Oct 1 13:08:47 2007 From: bentley at crenelle.com (Michael Brian Bentley) Date: Mon Oct 1 13:08:59 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: <71C0F4A3-60C2-4A1B-A193-434BD22EFE37@kreme.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> <71C0F4A3-60C2-4A1B-A193-434BD22EFE37@kreme.com> Message-ID: I think they're going to miss October. How about November 12 or December 3? From netsec at omnigroup.com Mon Oct 1 13:14:46 2007 From: netsec at omnigroup.com (netsec@omnigroup.com) Date: Mon Oct 1 13:14:50 2007 Subject: Job Opening @ Omni Message-ID: <7D3BA28F-75C6-4785-BC9F-6E357539093C@omnigroup.com> Just a heads-up that we're hiring another support ninja. More info available here: Sincerely, Brian C. Support & QA Manager Omni Group From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Mon Oct 1 15:14:41 2007 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene) Date: Mon Oct 1 15:14:52 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> <71C0F4A3-60C2-4A1B-A193-434BD22EFE37@kreme.com> Message-ID: <20071001221441.GB5652@h460bfdc7.area7.spcsdns.net> On Mon, Oct 01, 2007 at 03:08:47PM CDT, Michael Brian Bentley wrote: > > I think they're going to miss October. How about November 12 or December 3? Why do you think Apple will miss an October release? -- Eugene http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From bentley at crenelle.com Mon Oct 1 15:28:46 2007 From: bentley at crenelle.com (Michael Brian Bentley) Date: Mon Oct 1 15:29:03 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: <20071001221441.GB5652@h460bfdc7.area7.spcsdns.net> References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> <71C0F4A3-60C2-4A1B-A193-434BD22EFE37@kreme.com> <20071001221441.GB5652@h460bfdc7.area7.spcsdns.net> Message-ID: >On Mon, Oct 01, 2007 at 03:08:47PM CDT, Michael Brian Bentley > wrote: >> >> I think they're going to miss October. How about November 12 or December 3? > >Why do you think Apple will miss an October release? > >-- >Eugene It's all in fun. I haven't heard or read any substantive reason to believe one way or the other, and so I'm going against the grain and betting against the house. I figure the best that can happen is that I'll give someone the opportunity and satisfaction to say that I was totally, completely, bewilderingly (oh how could I be so utterly) wrong. Cool. The worst that can happen is that someone in upper mgt calls me on the phone to nag me about where I got my information. -Mike From kremels at kreme.com Tue Oct 2 09:51:14 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Tue Oct 2 09:51:29 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> <71C0F4A3-60C2-4A1B-A193-434BD22EFE37@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 1-Oct-2007, at 14:08, Michael Brian Bentley wrote: > I think they're going to miss October. How about November 12 or > December 3? I doubt it. I suspect that the current build will be the GM, or possibly there will be an internal build that is very close to 9a559 that becomes the GM. I've seen 9a559, and while I'm not very happy about some of it (details when Leopard comes out, I don't want to break the NDA even in spirit), the rest of it appears to be rock solid. And the part I dislike is a design issue, not a bug. -- Everybody hates a tourist, especially one who thinks it's all such a laugh. Yeah, and the chipstains and grease will come out in the bath. You will never understand how it feels to live your life with no meaning or control, and with nowhere left to go. You are amazed that they exist, and they burn so bright whilst you can only wonder why. From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Tue Oct 2 09:55:09 2007 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (R.L. Grigg) Date: Tue Oct 2 09:55:12 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> <71C0F4A3-60C2-4A1B-A193-434BD22EFE37@kreme.com> Message-ID: <31EE8279-F177-42A8-9005-16D60A4E4623@autonomy.caltech.edu> On Oct 2, 2007, at 9:51 AM, LuKreme wrote: > On 1-Oct-2007, at 14:08, Michael Brian Bentley wrote: >> I think they're going to miss October. How about November 12 or >> December 3? > > I doubt it. I suspect that the current build will be the GM, or > possibly there will be an internal build that is very close to > 9a559 that becomes the GM. > So what's the point of 10.4.11? Russ From andrew.brown at c18.net Tue Oct 2 10:00:15 2007 From: andrew.brown at c18.net (Andrew Brown) Date: Tue Oct 2 10:00:22 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: <31EE8279-F177-42A8-9005-16D60A4E4623@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> <71C0F4A3-60C2-4A1B-A193-434BD22EFE37@kreme.com> <31EE8279-F177-42A8-9005-16D60A4E4623@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <32A10F15-BC94-49C1-8000-65404893DA01@c18.net> On 2 Oct 2007, at 18:55, R.L. Grigg wrote: > So what's the point of 10.4.11? Lots of people will let Leopard blunt its claws before taking it on, so it makes sense for Apple to keep its 10.4 users happy. And don't forget that Leopard is not going to be given away -- I am told that for some people paying the rent takes precedence over software updates, hard though that may be to believe. AB From davec2468 at aim.com Tue Oct 2 10:33:47 2007 From: davec2468 at aim.com (davec) Date: Tue Oct 2 10:34:41 2007 Subject: Automate Recent Items folder to reduce AppleWorks' sluggishness Message-ID: For those not wanting to do a little work to attach a script to a folder (as I recommended in a previous post), here is a stand-alone application that does clean-up of the Recent Items files, and such, automatically: It's not obvious, but to download the application, click on the icon at the top of the window. Enjoy, Dave From kremels at kreme.com Tue Oct 2 11:37:51 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Tue Oct 2 11:38:06 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: <31EE8279-F177-42A8-9005-16D60A4E4623@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> <71C0F4A3-60C2-4A1B-A193-434BD22EFE37@kreme.com> <31EE8279-F177-42A8-9005-16D60A4E4623@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <483945E7-EA4E-45E9-8BF9-806B0487BEBD@kreme.com> On 2-Oct-2007, at 10:55, R.L. Grigg wrote: > On Oct 2, 2007, at 9:51 AM, LuKreme wrote: >> On 1-Oct-2007, at 14:08, Michael Brian Bentley wrote: >>> I think they're going to miss October. How about November 12 or >>> December 3? >> >> I doubt it. I suspect that the current build will be the GM, or >> possibly there will be an internal build that is very close to >> 9a559 that becomes the GM. >> > So what's the point of 10.4.11? That 100% of the Mac users will not update to 10.5 on release date. Some Mac users will never update. -- "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." From aglee at mac.com Tue Oct 2 16:46:30 2007 From: aglee at mac.com (Andy Lee) Date: Tue Oct 2 16:46:38 2007 Subject: disappearing Java In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0709301848xf4a4d4fl3df0e3a9c0f36c89@mail.gmail.com> References: <2A545F16-8AC1-4B99-A751-C71700F5E787@mac.com> <9007B11E-E585-4595-BBE8-8600E49EC032@mac.com> <5dc6fd9e0709301848xf4a4d4fl3df0e3a9c0f36c89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sep 30, 2007, at 9:48 PM, Hex Star wrote: > Try trashing ~/Library/Application Support/Firefox/Profiles/ > xxxxxxxx.default/ I renamed both the prefs plist and the Application Support directory, relaunched, and it worked fine. Then I went back to my old (presumably broken) plist and Application Support, and again it worked fine. So somehow it seems to have fixed itself. I love it when things happen by voodoo. (shrug) Thanks, --Andy From hexstar at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 16:50:54 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Tue Oct 2 16:51:01 2007 Subject: disappearing Java In-Reply-To: References: <2A545F16-8AC1-4B99-A751-C71700F5E787@mac.com> <9007B11E-E585-4595-BBE8-8600E49EC032@mac.com> <5dc6fd9e0709301848xf4a4d4fl3df0e3a9c0f36c89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0710021650q63f8ca8dr8d0fe425ad9e5d02@mail.gmail.com> On 10/2/07, Andy Lee wrote: > > > > Thanks, > --Andy > You're welcome! :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071002/1201660a/attachment.html From hexstar at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 18:18:22 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Tue Oct 2 18:18:36 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: <483945E7-EA4E-45E9-8BF9-806B0487BEBD@kreme.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> <71C0F4A3-60C2-4A1B-A193-434BD22EFE37@kreme.com> <31EE8279-F177-42A8-9005-16D60A4E4623@autonomy.caltech.edu> <483945E7-EA4E-45E9-8BF9-806B0487BEBD@kreme.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0710021818qae0b65bq3c18e650b25ed0c2@mail.gmail.com> On 10/2/07, LuKreme wrote: > > > > > Some Mac users will never update. > > That's a scary thought! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071002/0e0d866c/attachment.html From andyring at inebraska.com Tue Oct 2 19:10:00 2007 From: andyring at inebraska.com (Andy Ringsmuth) Date: Tue Oct 2 19:10:06 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0710021818qae0b65bq3c18e650b25ed0c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> <71C0F4A3-60C2-4A1B-A193-434BD22EFE37@kreme.com> <31EE8279-F177-42A8-9005-16D60A4E4623@autonomy.caltech.edu> <483945E7-EA4E-45E9-8BF9-806B0487BEBD@kreme.com> <5dc6fd9e0710021818qae0b65bq3c18e650b25ed0c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Oct 2, 2007, at 8:18 PM, Hex Star wrote: > > > On 10/2/07, LuKreme wrote: > > > Some Mac users will never update. > > > > That's a scary thought! Hey, don't knock us holdouts! I've got a fully functional Mac Plus on the desk behind me! :-) All hail System 6.0.7! From mrhatken at mac.com Tue Oct 2 19:40:11 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Tue Oct 2 19:41:14 2007 Subject: PDF images? Message-ID: <99EDB3C9-52B0-4FC9-8233-FC25C3734337@mac.com> Howdy All, I am helping a relative with a photo slideshow. I told them to scan their original (hardcopy) photos. They seem to have used a document scanner (probably a work photocopier) that produces PDFs. I'm interested in what form the images are stored inside the PDFs? I would have preferred them to supply JPEGs (or similar) but I guess they couldn't or it was too much work. I can save the PDFs to JPEG from Preview but is this just "sampling" the image from the PDF in some way? I'd like to get as much resolution as possible (given I can't rescan). Thanks in advance for any information. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071003/54a6b734/attachment.html From kremels at kreme.com Tue Oct 2 21:10:56 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Tue Oct 2 21:11:10 2007 Subject: PDF images? In-Reply-To: <99EDB3C9-52B0-4FC9-8233-FC25C3734337@mac.com> References: <99EDB3C9-52B0-4FC9-8233-FC25C3734337@mac.com> Message-ID: On 2-Oct-2007, at 20:40, Ashley Aitken wrote: > I'm interested in what form the images are stored inside the PDFs? > I would have preferred them to supply JPEGs (or similar) but I > guess they couldn't or it was too much work. Probably the images embedded in the PDF are TIFFs. Maybe compressed TIFFs. > I can save the PDFs to JPEG from Preview but is this just > "sampling" the image from the PDF in some way? ?? any conversion to jpeg is 'sampling' in some sense of the word. > I'd like to get as much resolution as possible (given I can't rescan). Most thing that will convert to jpg will let you set the quality. -- May you live in interesting times From mrhatken at mac.com Tue Oct 2 21:50:04 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Tue Oct 2 21:50:38 2007 Subject: PDF images? In-Reply-To: References: <99EDB3C9-52B0-4FC9-8233-FC25C3734337@mac.com> Message-ID: <36E516CB-D280-4DE4-809A-F0B84D26AF52@mac.com> On 03/10/2007, at 12:10 PM, LuKreme wrote: > On 2-Oct-2007, at 20:40, Ashley Aitken wrote: >> I'm interested in what form the images are stored inside the >> PDFs? I would have preferred them to supply JPEGs (or similar) >> but I guess they couldn't or it was too much work. > > Probably the images embedded in the PDF are TIFFs. Maybe > compressed TIFFs. > >> I can save the PDFs to JPEG from Preview but is this just >> "sampling" the image from the PDF in some way? > > ?? any conversion to jpeg is 'sampling' in some sense of the word. Yes, sure, I guess I was asking how to get the embedded image (if possible) out of the PDF rather than "resampling" (is that better?) into another image format (considering PDF is vector mostly - not that there is anything else in the PDF besides the image and blank space). >> I'd like to get as much resolution as possible (given I can't >> rescan). > > Most thing that will convert to jpg will let you set the quality. Yes, preview does. Cheers, Ashley. From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Oct 3 00:15:18 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Wed Oct 3 00:15:19 2007 Subject: PDF images? In-Reply-To: <36E516CB-D280-4DE4-809A-F0B84D26AF52@mac.com> References: <99EDB3C9-52B0-4FC9-8233-FC25C3734337@mac.com> <36E516CB-D280-4DE4-809A-F0B84D26AF52@mac.com> Message-ID: <47034186.3060200@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Ashley Aitken wrote: > Yes, sure, I guess I was asking how to get the embedded image (if > possible) out of the PDF rather than "resampling" (is that better?) > into another image format (considering PDF is vector mostly - not that > there is anything else in the PDF besides the image and blank space). PDF is not really "vector mostly"; raster and vector components are both first class components; several compression formats are supported for images, and there is even a "PDF Image Only" format commonly used for scanned images to extract the images, if neither Photoshop nor Acrobat Pro is available, try the demo of File Juicer (there are probably other options, my first thought was pdftk, but no go) saving to JPEG from Preview is probably not ideal; best i can tell, Preview always renders saved images at 150 ppi; if the PDF's image data is at a higher (or lower) density, that would indeed comprise resampling, and if the image was stored in the PDF with lossy compression, you will compound the loss when recompressing with JPEG (though Preview offers lossless output formats) From bentley at crenelle.com Wed Oct 3 13:21:51 2007 From: bentley at crenelle.com (Michael Brian Bentley) Date: Wed Oct 3 13:22:08 2007 Subject: When will Mac OS X Leopard be released? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0709302242u7cc1dfb1g1e559c4537f46172@mail.gmail.com> <285b60ef0710010511k42e896aewc378d3967de50e29@mail.gmail.com> <2B58791A-FBFF-4306-B3D2-5CD843DA6048@tisys.org> <71C0F4A3-60C2-4A1B-A193-434BD22EFE37@kreme.com> <31EE8279-F177-42A8-9005-16D60A4E4623@autonomy.caltech.edu> <483945E7-EA4E-45E9-8BF9-806B0487BEBD@kreme.com> <5dc6fd9e0710021818qae0b65bq3c18e650b25ed0c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Some Macs fall off the trailing edge and won't be certified to run 10.5.x. From aglee at mac.com Tue Oct 9 08:01:21 2007 From: aglee at mac.com (Andy Lee) Date: Tue Oct 9 08:01:30 2007 Subject: extending timeout for .Mac webmail Message-ID: <7CC91D79-0115-1000-AADF-E21CB3550DCC-Webmail-10015@mac.com> I'm using a browser to read my .Mac mail. I appreciate that .Mac times out my session if I don't do anything for a while, but I'd like it to wait longer before doing so. Can I adjust the timeout interval? Hope I'm not missing something obvious in the prefs... --Andy From kcall at mac.com Sat Oct 13 18:34:52 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sat Oct 13 18:34:29 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine Message-ID: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> Not knowing the details of Time Machine's preferences and options, I'd like to buy a drive BEFORE Leopard ships, so that the day I've installed Leopard, I'm all set for Time Machine. Given I currently have separate external drives for photos, music and videos (I have 5 drives hanging off my MBPro) - -and considering I do a fair amount of audio and video editing throughout the day, is there some size ratio between my working data set (size) vs what I should plan for a backup drive? I suppose it all depends on how far back you want to keep file changes in TM - so it's probably a dumb question, but ... I've read you can define multiple drives as backup drives for Time Machine, so maybe I shouldn't worry about it. But on day one, I'd like to have something in place. Thoughts? Kevin From matthew.penna at gmail.com Sat Oct 13 18:44:54 2007 From: matthew.penna at gmail.com (Matt Penna) Date: Sat Oct 13 18:44:58 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> Message-ID: <5FEEBF70-AF32-428E-A509-89D3488643D9@gmail.com> On Oct 13, 2007, at 9:34 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > Not knowing the details of Time Machine's preferences and options, > I'd like to buy a drive BEFORE Leopard ships, so that the day I've > installed Leopard, I'm all set for Time Machine. > Kevin, I have not used Leopard myself, but there was a very good overview of how Time Machine works in an AppleInsider article a few days ago. It's not very long and answered a handful of questions I had, so hopefully it will be useful for you, also. You can find it here: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/12/ road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_time_machine.html I starts out with some historical perspective, but by page 2 it goes right into the nuts and bolts. Matt, who is very eager to throw Retrospect out the window? From kcall at mac.com Sat Oct 13 18:51:04 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sat Oct 13 18:50:41 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <5FEEBF70-AF32-428E-A509-89D3488643D9@gmail.com> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <5FEEBF70-AF32-428E-A509-89D3488643D9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <68AC6E57-0FA2-411B-AEC2-BA296FB39165@mac.com> On Oct 13, 2007, at 6:44 PM, Matt Penna wrote: > On Oct 13, 2007, at 9:34 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> Not knowing the details of Time Machine's preferences and options, >> I'd like to buy a drive BEFORE Leopard ships, so that the day I've >> installed Leopard, I'm all set for Time Machine. >> > > Kevin, > > I have not used Leopard myself, but there was a very good overview > of how Time Machine works in an AppleInsider article a few days ago. yeah .. I read that it's excellent ! > It's not very long and answered a handful of questions I had, so > hopefully it will be useful for you, also. > > You can find it here: > > http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/12/ > road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_time_machine.html > > I starts out with some historical perspective, but by page 2 it > goes right into the nuts and bolts. > > From chad at objectwerks.com Sat Oct 13 20:21:48 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Sat Oct 13 20:21:51 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> Message-ID: <348BC19A-E756-422F-B71D-709AE33C8AD1@objectwerks.com> On Oct 13, 2007, at 7:34 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > Not knowing the details of Time Machine's preferences and options, > I'd like to buy a drive BEFORE Leopard ships, so that the day I've > installed Leopard, I'm all set for Time Machine. > > Given I currently have separate external drives for photos, music > and videos (I have 5 drives hanging off my MBPro) - -and > considering I do a fair amount of audio and video editing > throughout the day, is there some size ratio between my working > data set (size) vs what I should plan for a backup drive? I > suppose it all depends on how far back you want to keep file > changes in TM - so it's probably a dumb question, but ... > > I've read you can define multiple drives as backup drives for Time > Machine, so maybe I shouldn't worry about it. But on day one, I'd > like to have something in place. > > Thoughts? Bigger can't be worse :-) Chad From kremels at kreme.com Sat Oct 13 22:39:08 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat Oct 13 22:39:34 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> Message-ID: On 13-Oct-2007, at 19:34, Kevin Callahan wrote: > Not knowing the details of Time Machine's preferences and options, > I'd like to buy a drive BEFORE Leopard ships, so that the day I've > installed Leopard, I'm all set for Time Machine. > > Given I currently have separate external drives for photos, music > and videos (I have 5 drives hanging off my MBPro) - -and > considering I do a fair amount of audio and video editing > throughout the day, is there some size ratio between my working > data set (size) vs what I should plan for a backup drive? I > suppose it all depends on how far back you want to keep file > changes in TM - so it's probably a dumb question, but It really depends on how often that data CHANGES. For example, my music folder never changes. I might add more files, but the files themselves don't get changed. Same with my photos, which only rarely change and usually only when they are added to iphoto and I clean up and crop and whatever. > I've read you can define multiple drives as backup drives for Time > Machine, so maybe I shouldn't worry about it. But on day one, I'd > like to have something in place. I have no idea on that. I plan on setting it to backup my $HOME and NOT backup any of my music or photos or the core system files (I think I read that was an option, so it will back up non-core system files) as I already keep two backup copies of all of those. Well, not the system, I don't keep a backup of that. The things that change the most for me are ~/Library/Mail and ~/ Sites, and to a much lesser extent, ~/Documents/ -- Critics look at actresses one of two ways: you're either bankable or boinkable. From mrhatken at mac.com Sun Oct 14 01:27:16 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Sun Oct 14 01:34:34 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> Message-ID: <6D4D9958-8645-4DD4-A5DF-D57B3E4DD618@mac.com> On 13-Oct-2007, at 19:34, Kevin Callahan wrote: > I've read you can define multiple drives as backup drives for Time > Machine, so maybe I shouldn't worry about it. But on day one, I'd > like to have something in place. That's interesting because I had read you could only backup to a single volume - a big limitation (for me, at least, since I tend to fill up big volumes, so backing up a big volume would be problematic). I would be surprised if this had changed (please provide reference if you have one) because of the way HFS works (although they have made changes to HFS+, I believe, for Time Machine). One of the features of ZFS is "logical volume management" wherein you can make multiple volumes (on multiple drives) look like one big volume, which would be good for Time Machine. For most users though, who don't use (or change as LuKreme pointed out) a fraction of their disk space it will be ok though. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) From kcall at mac.com Sun Oct 14 09:36:25 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sun Oct 14 09:36:01 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <6D4D9958-8645-4DD4-A5DF-D57B3E4DD618@mac.com> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <6D4D9958-8645-4DD4-A5DF-D57B3E4DD618@mac.com> Message-ID: On Oct 14, 2007, at 1:27 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > On 13-Oct-2007, at 19:34, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> I've read you can define multiple drives as backup drives for Time >> Machine, so maybe I shouldn't worry about it. But on day one, I'd >> like to have something in place. > > That's interesting because I had read you could only backup to a > single volume - a big limitation (for me, at least, since I tend to > fill up big volumes, so backing up a big volume would be problematic). of course, we really need to wait for Leopard to ship to know the details, but this article discusses Time Machine: "It is possible to set up multiple disks for use with Time Machine, making it easy to create an offsite archive. It only backs up to one drive at a time however. " > > I would be surprised if this had changed (please provide reference > if you have one) because of the way HFS works (although they have > made changes to HFS+, I believe, for Time Machine). > > One of the features of ZFS is "logical volume management" wherein > you can make multiple volumes (on multiple drives) look like one > big volume, which would be good for Time Machine. > > For most users though, who don't use (or change as LuKreme pointed > out) a fraction of their disk space it will be ok though. > > Cheers, > Ashley. > > -- > Ashley Aitken > Perth, Western Australia > mrhatken at mac dot com > Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) > > From lomion at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 10:30:38 2007 From: lomion at gmail.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Sun Oct 14 10:30:47 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <6D4D9958-8645-4DD4-A5DF-D57B3E4DD618@mac.com> Message-ID: On Oct 14, 2007, at 12:36 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > On Oct 14, 2007, at 1:27 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >> >> On 13-Oct-2007, at 19:34, Kevin Callahan wrote: >> >>> I've read you can define multiple drives as backup drives for >>> Time Machine, so maybe I shouldn't worry about it. But on day >>> one, I'd like to have something in place. >> >> That's interesting because I had read you could only backup to a >> single volume - a big limitation (for me, at least, since I tend >> to fill up big volumes, so backing up a big volume would be >> problematic). > > of course, we really need to wait for Leopard to ship to know the > details, but this article discusses Time Machine: > > road_to_mac_os_x_leopard_time_machine.html&page=1;%20title=> > > "It is possible to set up multiple disks for use with Time Machine, > making it easy to create an offsite archive. It only backs up to > one drive at a time however. " > I am curious how this will work. I just picked up 2 TB worth of external storage from newegg. The LaCie Porsche drives. I may end up splitting it into 2 1TB disk groups basically, one for data, one for backups. --Larry "there are three things to cry for in life - things that are lost, things that are found, and things that are magnificent.~douglas coupland" ------------------------------------------------ Lawrence Sica lomion@gmail.com http://blog.citruspub.net ------------------------------------------------ From mrhatken at mac.com Mon Oct 15 05:35:59 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Mon Oct 15 05:53:03 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> Message-ID: On 13-Oct-2007, at 19:34, Kevin Callahan wrote: > I've read you can define multiple drives as backup drives for Time > Machine, so maybe I shouldn't worry about it. But on day one, I'd > like to have something in place. That's interesting because I had read you could only backup to a single volume - a big limitation (for me, at least, since I tend to fill up big volumes, so backing up a big volume would be problematic). I would be surprised if this had changed (please provide reference if you have one) because of the way HFS works (although they have made changes to HFS+, I believe, for Time Machine). One of the features of ZFS is "logical volume management" wherein you can make multiple volumes (on multiple drives) look like one big volume, which would be good for Time Machine. For most users though, who don't use (or change as LuKreme pointed out) a fraction of their disk space it will be ok though. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) From mrhatken at mac.com Mon Oct 15 06:50:06 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Mon Oct 15 06:50:11 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <6D4D9958-8645-4DD4-A5DF-D57B3E4DD618@mac.com> Message-ID: On 15/10/2007, at 12:36 AM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > "It is possible to set up multiple disks for use with Time Machine, > making it easy to create an offsite archive. It only backs up to > one drive at a time however. " Unfortunately, I think this means you can backup volume A to volume B and also backup volume A to volume C (so you can rotate one off-site etc.) Again, due to sizeof(Volume) <= sizeof(disk) and the way Time Machine works I think a backup will not be able to span multiple drives, i.e. generally volume being backed up needs to be << backup volume. So if you have filled up that 500GB drive and you touch quite a few MBs each day, Time Machine isn't going to be very helpful. At least, not until ZFS comes along. Cheers, Ashley. PS Sorry about the duplicate post. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) From kcall at mac.com Mon Oct 15 08:32:16 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Mon Oct 15 08:31:48 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <6D4D9958-8645-4DD4-A5DF-D57B3E4DD618@mac.com> Message-ID: <67BA2D01-DB69-418D-9C77-107CF047EEAA@mac.com> On Oct 15, 2007, at 6:50 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > On 15/10/2007, at 12:36 AM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> "It is possible to set up multiple disks for use with Time >> Machine, making it easy to create an offsite archive. It only >> backs up to one drive at a time however. " > > Unfortunately, I think this means you can backup volume A to volume > B and also backup volume A to volume C (so you can rotate one off- > site etc.) ah .. that's probably the best interpretation > > Again, due to sizeof(Volume) <= sizeof(disk) and the way Time > Machine works I think a backup will not be able to span multiple > drives, i.e. generally volume being backed up needs to be << backup > volume. > > So if you have filled up that 500GB drive and you touch quite a few > MBs each day, Time Machine isn't going to be very helpful. if I add up my current data set, I have about 900 Gig (including the cloning of my system) > > At least, not until ZFS comes along. yeah > > Cheers, > Ashley. > > PS Sorry about the duplicate post. > > From ehrich at mninter.net Mon Oct 15 10:03:48 2007 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Mon Oct 15 10:04:04 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <67BA2D01-DB69-418D-9C77-107CF047EEAA@mac.com> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <6D4D9958-8645-4DD4-A5DF-D57B3E4DD618@mac.com> <67BA2D01-DB69-418D-9C77-107CF047EEAA@mac.com> Message-ID: <47139D74.2070809@mninter.net> It sounds as though HFS+ will now be able to make hard links to other volumes. ?? -- Bill Ehrich From larkost at softhome.net Mon Oct 15 10:10:23 2007 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Mon Oct 15 10:10:41 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <47139D74.2070809@mninter.net> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <6D4D9958-8645-4DD4-A5DF-D57B3E4DD618@mac.com> <67BA2D01-DB69-418D-9C77-107CF047EEAA@mac.com> <47139D74.2070809@mninter.net> Message-ID: On Oct 15, 2007, at 1:03 PM, William Ehrich wrote: > It sounds as though HFS+ will now be able to make hard links to > other volumes. I don't think so, I think that the work on hard-links has focused on making them work better within a volume. I can't see a hard-link ever working between volumes, since the whole point of it is if you have two hard-links to a file and delete one of them, the other one is still there. You completely break that model when you then move external HD to another computer, and delete the file there. Across volumes you always want soft-links, or even better: aliases so that there is some provision for network volumes and intelligent fallbacks. I would love to see aliases and soft-links combined into one thing (or bridged for the APIs). -- Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net From kcall at mac.com Mon Oct 15 12:33:22 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Mon Oct 15 12:32:56 2007 Subject: NeXTSTEP Release 3 Demo Message-ID: <55F4F602-965A-4D1B-9236-BF910C674CC4@mac.com> 15 years ago ... amazing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A&eurl= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071015/576e4a8a/attachment.html From kcall at mac.com Mon Oct 15 13:37:27 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Mon Oct 15 13:37:00 2007 Subject: Time Machine and multiple drives backing up to a SINGLE drive Message-ID: Does anyone know if TM supports backup up of data from multiple drives to a single drive? I have close to 900 Gig of data hanging off my MBPro on several drives. Will I be able to tell TM to back this data up to, let's say, a LaCie 2Terabyte drive ? My Documents, iTunes, Photos, Movies and Logic/Garageband audio are residing on a bunch of 500 gig drives hanging off the MBPro. That will change once I get a MacPro (next rev) -- but I expect my data set to grow rapidly as I use the MacPro to edit hi def video - K From hexstar at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 18:58:03 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Mon Oct 15 18:58:06 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0710151858l23675139o2c105eba197fb5ee@mail.gmail.com> On 10/13/07, Kevin Callahan wrote: > Not knowing the details of Time Machine's preferences and options, > I'd like to buy a drive BEFORE Leopard ships, so that the day I've > installed Leopard, I'm all set for Time Machine. > > Given I currently have separate external drives for photos, music and > videos (I have 5 drives hanging off my MBPro) - -and considering I do > a fair amount of audio and video editing throughout the day, is there > some size ratio between my working data set (size) vs what I should > plan for a backup drive? I suppose it all depends on how far back > you want to keep file changes in TM - so it's probably a dumb > question, but ... > > I've read you can define multiple drives as backup drives for Time > Machine, so maybe I shouldn't worry about it. But on day one, I'd > like to have something in place. > > Thoughts? I myself am wondering if it'll be possible to just disable Time Machine for those of us who don't have the ability to provide the necessary media for backup? From fracai at mac.com Tue Oct 16 04:47:13 2007 From: fracai at mac.com (Arno Hautala) Date: Tue Oct 16 04:47:41 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0710151858l23675139o2c105eba197fb5ee@mail.gmail.com> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <5dc6fd9e0710151858l23675139o2c105eba197fb5ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2007/10/15, at 21:58, Hex Star wrote: > I myself am wondering if it'll be possible to just disable Time > Machine for those of us who don't have the ability to provide the > necessary media for backup? I'm pretty sure that if you don't have a ready drive for Time Machine it just starts deleting files until it reaches a balance where historical backups are possible. Really, there's a big ON/OFF switch in the prefs (you haven't seen those pics?) and Apple's page specifically says you have to turn it on. http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/timemachine.html -- -- arno s. hautala /-\ arno@alum.wpi.edu -- -- From andrew.brown at c18.net Tue Oct 16 05:10:07 2007 From: andrew.brown at c18.net (Andrew Brown) Date: Tue Oct 16 05:10:12 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <5dc6fd9e0710151858l23675139o2c105eba197fb5ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5FBFF7F4-F5EC-419C-955F-D47DC132C9BD@c18.net> On 16 Oct 2007, at 13:47, Arno Hautala wrote: > I'm pretty sure that if you don't have a ready drive for Time > Machine it just starts deleting files until it reaches a balance > where historical backups are possible. Yes, that's it, but it deletes recent files first, thereby living up to its name. Within a few minutes you should be back in 1987 or 1988, and able to start again with a relatively clean slate. AB From hexstar at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 07:25:27 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Tue Oct 16 07:25:31 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <5dc6fd9e0710151858l23675139o2c105eba197fb5ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0710160725g4caab157j89fb79e4286193de@mail.gmail.com> On 10/16/07, Arno Hautala wrote: > On 2007/10/15, at 21:58, Hex Star wrote: > > > I myself am wondering if it'll be possible to just disable Time > > Machine for those of us who don't have the ability to provide the > > necessary media for backup? > > I'm pretty sure that if you don't have a ready drive for Time Machine > it just starts deleting files until it reaches a balance where > historical backups are possible. > > Really, there's a big ON/OFF switch in the prefs (you haven't seen > those pics?) and Apple's page specifically says you have to turn it on. > http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/timemachine.html LOL haha, no I have not looked at the leaked screenshots. I prefer to keep everything a nice surprise, I like figuring things out on my own and exploring unknown territory. But thank you guys for confirming that Time Machine is not required. :) From hexstar at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 07:26:43 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Tue Oct 16 07:26:46 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0710160725g4caab157j89fb79e4286193de@mail.gmail.com> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <5dc6fd9e0710151858l23675139o2c105eba197fb5ee@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0710160725g4caab157j89fb79e4286193de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0710160726l2512edddxa8fe3127b9bb4264@mail.gmail.com> On 10/16/07, Hex Star wrote: > LOL haha, no I have not looked at the leaked screenshots. I prefer to > keep everything a nice surprise, I like figuring things out on my own > and exploring unknown territory. But thank you guys for confirming > that Time Machine is not required. :) > Apologies for not cleaning up the quote in my reply more. I thought I had done a good job and when I sent a reply there sat a subquote from my previous post. Grr... From jearle at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 09:37:25 2007 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Tue Oct 16 09:37:28 2007 Subject: Leopard released 26th Message-ID: <5bbc0cd60710160937u16af76f1i5fa15d951b845d89@mail.gmail.com> Apple have announced 10.5 Leopard is due on the 26th. Check your sweepstakes for who won. -- Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK jearle@gmail.com :: http://www.23x.net The Spodcast :: http://spodcast.org From kremels at kreme.com Tue Oct 16 10:01:15 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Tue Oct 16 10:01:47 2007 Subject: Time Machine and multiple drives backing up to a SINGLE drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 15-Oct-2007, at 14:37, Kevin Callahan wrote: > Does anyone know if TM supports backup up of data from multiple > drives to a single drive? Yes. And multiple machines to a single drive too. -- Try to realize it's all within yourself/No one else can make you change From bentley at crenelle.com Tue Oct 16 10:40:23 2007 From: bentley at crenelle.com (Michael Brian Bentley) Date: Tue Oct 16 10:40:46 2007 Subject: Leopard released 26th In-Reply-To: <5bbc0cd60710160937u16af76f1i5fa15d951b845d89@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bbc0cd60710160937u16af76f1i5fa15d951b845d89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >Apple have announced 10.5 Leopard is due on the 26th. Check your >sweepstakes for who won. > On the day of release, of course. I can still win! From macsrwe at macsrwe.com Tue Oct 16 12:42:46 2007 From: macsrwe at macsrwe.com (Macs R We) Date: Tue Oct 16 12:42:57 2007 Subject: Time Machine and multiple drives backing up to a SINGLE drive In-Reply-To: <20071016190006.543111C3A33@forums.omnigroup.com> References: <20071016190006.543111C3A33@forums.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: On Oct 16, 2007, at 12:00 PM, macosx-talk-request@omnigroup.com wrote: > From: Kevin Callahan > Subject: Time Machine and multiple drives backing up to a SINGLE drive > Does anyone know if TM supports backup up of data from multiple > drives to a single drive? > > I have close to 900 Gig of data hanging off my MBPro on several > drives. > > Will I be able to tell TM to back this data up to, let's say, a LaCie > 2Terabyte drive ? An article in the issue of MacLife or MacWorld that just came out (sorry, read 'em the same day) specifically complained that this is the ONLY way Time Machine will back up multiple drives, so apparently the answer is yes. -- Macs R We -- Personal Macintosh Service and Support in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas. http://macsrwe.com From pelorus at mac.com Tue Oct 16 12:48:50 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Tue Oct 16 12:49:04 2007 Subject: Advanced Cocoa/ObjC design docs discovered Message-ID: Who could have known that back in 2002, mmalc would have released advanced plans for Cocoa... ...to me anyway it looks like a design doc. I'd like to hear his opinion on Cocoa/CoreImage/ObjC2 in light of this document? http://www.stepwise.com/Articles/Editorial/2002-04-01.01.html I especially like the D2W frameworks....maybe for the next post- Leopard version? :) From kcall at mac.com Tue Oct 16 16:48:38 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Tue Oct 16 16:48:13 2007 Subject: Leopard: Front Row and DVD media Message-ID: Front Row in Leopard includes playback of DVD movies as well. Just pop in a DVD and enjoy. is it foolish to assume one can play DVD media from a hard disk in Leopard's Front Row ? From larkost at softhome.net Tue Oct 16 16:53:01 2007 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Tue Oct 16 16:53:54 2007 Subject: Leopard: Front Row and DVD media In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 16, 2007, at 7:48 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > is it foolish to assume one can play DVD media from a hard disk in > Leopard's Front Row ? How would you choose the files? Front row is probably not going to search your whole HD to find the dvd files (nor would I want it to). However, if you were to make a dmg of a DVD (without encryption), then I would be unsurprised if FrontRow found it... I wonder if they thought through the case were there is more than one DVD mounted? -- Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Oct 16 20:59:50 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Tue Oct 16 20:59:55 2007 Subject: Leopard: Front Row and DVD media In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27AFA466-D5B5-473C-B3FF-D1E08BDE55B2@objectwerks.com> On Oct 16, 2007, at 5:53 PM, Karl Kuehn wrote: > On Oct 16, 2007, at 7:48 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> is it foolish to assume one can play DVD media from a hard disk in >> Leopard's Front Row ? yes > > > How would you choose the files? Front row is probably not going to > search your whole HD to find the dvd files (nor would I want it to). Same way MediaCentral does it -- you just stick them in the My DVDs folder or something like that. It would be WAY COOL if FrontRow could play my DVD media I have stored on my HD. Chad > > However, if you were to make a dmg of a DVD (without encryption), > then I would be unsurprised if FrontRow found it... I wonder if > they thought through the case were there is more than one DVD mounted? > > -- > Karl Kuehn > larkost@softhome.net > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From kcall at mac.com Tue Oct 16 21:18:55 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Tue Oct 16 21:18:29 2007 Subject: Leopard: Front Row and DVD media In-Reply-To: <27AFA466-D5B5-473C-B3FF-D1E08BDE55B2@objectwerks.com> References: <27AFA466-D5B5-473C-B3FF-D1E08BDE55B2@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On Oct 16, 2007, at 8:59 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: > > On Oct 16, 2007, at 5:53 PM, Karl Kuehn wrote: > >> On Oct 16, 2007, at 7:48 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: >> >>> is it foolish to assume one can play DVD media from a hard disk >>> in Leopard's Front Row ? > > yes > >> >> >> How would you choose the files? Front row is probably not going >> to search your whole HD to find the dvd files (nor would I want it >> to). > > Same way MediaCentral does it -- you just stick them in the My DVDs > folder or something like that. It would be WAY COOL if FrontRow > could play my DVD media I have stored on my HD. > > Chad exactly From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Oct 16 21:21:30 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Tue Oct 16 21:21:35 2007 Subject: Leopard: Front Row and DVD media In-Reply-To: References: <27AFA466-D5B5-473C-B3FF-D1E08BDE55B2@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <9DEB9AC5-E960-4792-B6EC-EF55DDC89641@objectwerks.com> On Oct 16, 2007, at 10:18 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > On Oct 16, 2007, at 8:59 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: > >> >> On Oct 16, 2007, at 5:53 PM, Karl Kuehn wrote: >> >>> On Oct 16, 2007, at 7:48 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: >>> >>>> is it foolish to assume one can play DVD media from a hard disk >>>> in Leopard's Front Row ? >> >> yes Btw, while they could do it I don't expect them to. Apple puts a straight jacket on their stuff to support only exactly what they think you should do with your media. DVD Player can do it no problem but I would be greatly surprised to find FR doing it Chad >> >>> >>> >>> How would you choose the files? Front row is probably not going >>> to search your whole HD to find the dvd files (nor would I want >>> it to). >> >> Same way MediaCentral does it -- you just stick them in the My >> DVDs folder or something like that. It would be WAY COOL if >> FrontRow could play my DVD media I have stored on my HD. >> >> Chad > > exactly > > From hexstar at gmail.com Tue Oct 16 21:26:32 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Tue Oct 16 21:26:36 2007 Subject: Leopard released 26th In-Reply-To: <5bbc0cd60710160937u16af76f1i5fa15d951b845d89@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bbc0cd60710160937u16af76f1i5fa15d951b845d89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0710162126m739978c0x20aea46dd336c1cb@mail.gmail.com> On 10/16/07, Jared Earle wrote: > Apple have announced 10.5 Leopard is due on the 26th. Check your > sweepstakes for who won. IMO I and anyone else who has preordered their copy of Leopard has won! :D lol From scott at cocoadoc.com Tue Oct 16 21:56:05 2007 From: scott at cocoadoc.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Tue Oct 16 21:56:09 2007 Subject: Advanced Cocoa/ObjC design docs discovered In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <017245BB-02ED-41DE-AFFB-19FAE639E0E4@cocoadoc.com> I haven't read that in a long time. For an April fools article, it seems rather spot on now. I laughed at the Documentation "SpoonFeeding" directory... On Oct 16, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: > > Who could have known that back in 2002, mmalc would have released > advanced plans for Cocoa... > > ...to me anyway it looks like a design doc. I'd like to hear his > opinion on Cocoa/CoreImage/ObjC2 in light of this document? > > http://www.stepwise.com/Articles/Editorial/2002-04-01.01.html > > I especially like the D2W frameworks....maybe for the next post- > Leopard version? From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Oct 17 10:57:55 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Wed Oct 17 10:58:02 2007 Subject: native SDK for i P h o n e Message-ID: Looks like Apple is coming out with an SDK for the iPhone and iPod Touch http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2007/10/15/daily48.html From alsina at mac.com Wed Oct 17 20:51:35 2007 From: alsina at mac.com (Cesar Alsina) Date: Wed Oct 17 20:51:40 2007 Subject: native SDK for i P h o n e In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 17, 2007, at 1:57 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: > Looks like Apple is coming out with an SDK for the iPhone and iPod > Touch > > http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2007/10/15/daily48.html http://www.apple.com/hotnews/ "Third Party Applications on the iPhone Let me just say it: We want native third party applications on the iPhone, and we plan to have an SDK in developers? hands in February. We are excited about creating a vibrant third party developer community around the iPhone and enabling hundreds of new applications for our users. With our revolutionary multi-touch interface, powerful hardware and advanced software architecture, we believe we have created the best mobile platform ever for developers." That's Steve word. ........ Cesar Alsina From hexstar at gmail.com Wed Oct 17 20:52:37 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Wed Oct 17 20:52:39 2007 Subject: native SDK for i P h o n e In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0710172052p726a39dh9c5691c73e1d9917@mail.gmail.com> On 10/17/07, Chad Leigh wrote: > > Looks like Apple is coming out with an SDK for the iPhone and iPod Touch > > http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2007/10/15/daily48.html This is great news, it's about time and now I finally have a reason to buy a iPhone :) From schween at snafu.de Fri Oct 19 15:36:55 2007 From: schween at snafu.de (Sven C. Koehler) Date: Fri Oct 19 15:56:36 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> Message-ID: <20071019223655.GL3486@boing.oerks.net> What happens if I unplug my external backup disk for a while? Does timemachine still log what files are changed and will backup these the next time I plug in the disk again? -S. From robertlaferla at comcast.net Sun Oct 21 15:36:49 2007 From: robertlaferla at comcast.net (Robert La Ferla) Date: Sun Oct 21 15:36:52 2007 Subject: Advanced Cocoa/ObjC design docs discovered In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2F21F86A-C740-4E69-97D1-0973E477168E@comcast.net> I loved this beauty: defaults write com.apple.EOModeler CrashRandomly No There should be another one: defaults write com.apple.EOModeler ChangeAttributeSettingsRandomly No :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071021/71996eed/attachment.html From abridge at gmail.com Sun Oct 21 23:09:43 2007 From: abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge) Date: Sun Oct 21 23:09:45 2007 Subject: Recommendations on graphing software? Message-ID: <4cfa589b0710212309i28bacfeeo5905704f622643ee@mail.gmail.com> I need to do some basic X-Y graphs, but I need to display three or four different sents of data with different Y axis scales. Are there any low-cost applications that will do this? Excel, at least the version I have, doesn't and Numbers is hopeless. Thanks for any suggestions. Adam From dinse at niehs.nih.gov Mon Oct 22 11:04:26 2007 From: dinse at niehs.nih.gov (Gregg Dinse) Date: Mon Oct 22 11:04:34 2007 Subject: Recommendations on graphing software? In-Reply-To: <4cfa589b0710212309i28bacfeeo5905704f622643ee@mail.gmail.com> References: <4cfa589b0710212309i28bacfeeo5905704f622643ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Adam, I use a product called KaleidaGraph. I'm not sure if it will do what you ask, but it seems to work fairly well for the things I do. Not everything is intuitive, but it produces nice results once you figure things out. I was not sure what you meant when you said you wanted to display 3 or 4 data sets with different Y axis scales. Can you elaborate? I think that KaleidaGraph allows one scale on the left and a different scale on the right (though I'm just guessing), but I don't know what you have in mind for 3 or more scales. Gregg On 22 Oct 2007, at 2:09 AM, Adam Bridge wrote: > I need to do some basic X-Y graphs, but I need to display three or > four different sents of data with different Y axis scales. Are there > any low-cost applications that will do this? Excel, at least the > version I have, doesn't and Numbers is hopeless. > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Adam > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From abridge at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 11:39:54 2007 From: abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge) Date: Mon Oct 22 11:39:56 2007 Subject: Recommendations on graphing software? In-Reply-To: References: <4cfa589b0710212309i28bacfeeo5905704f622643ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4cfa589b0710221139y24109cfes2b191f5c4a71209a@mail.gmail.com> Happy to give you an example, Gregg. I'm wanting to plot four sets of data all of which share the same domain: a constant daily date interval. The ranges of the data sets, however, are quite different: 1 - calories 0 to 5000 kCal 2 - weight 180 to 200 pounds 3 - exercise minutes: 0 to 500 minutes 4 - carbohydrate consumption 0 to 500 gm Clearly a single scale that runs 0 to 5000 will reduce weight fluctuations to what appears to be a straight line - all detail is lost. So I desire to be able to have the software apply the scaling and have four different scales, two along the right-hand side of the graph and two along the left. Or three along the left, whatever is possible. Years and years ago I had a nifty program for DEC computers that did this elegantly and trivially. Excel does not do this nor does Numbers. It seems to me that there might be some handy-dandy scientfic visualization package that does this and that's what I'm interested in finding at a low cost. Free would be nice but certainly less that $100. Thank you for your recommendation of KaleidaGraph which I will take a quick look at! Best regards, Adam Bridge On 10/22/07, Gregg Dinse wrote: > Hi Adam, > > I use a product called KaleidaGraph. I'm not sure if it will do what > you ask, but it seems to work fairly well for the things I do. Not > everything is intuitive, but it produces nice results once you figure > things out. > > I was not sure what you meant when you said you wanted to display 3 > or 4 data sets with different Y axis scales. Can you elaborate? I > think that KaleidaGraph allows one scale on the left and a different > scale on the right (though I'm just guessing), but I don't know what > you have in mind for 3 or more scales. > > Gregg > > On 22 Oct 2007, at 2:09 AM, Adam Bridge wrote: > > > I need to do some basic X-Y graphs, but I need to display three or > > four different sents of data with different Y axis scales. Are there > > any low-cost applications that will do this? Excel, at least the > > version I have, doesn't and Numbers is hopeless. > > > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > > Adam > > _______________________________________________ > > MacOSX-talk mailing list > > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From zpamaral at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 11:40:32 2007 From: zpamaral at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Pedro_Sousa_do_Amaral?=) Date: Mon Oct 22 11:40:47 2007 Subject: Recommendations on graphing software? In-Reply-To: References: <4cfa589b0710212309i28bacfeeo5905704f622643ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6F786D7F-700A-4F5A-A4F7-24E1837B5673@gmail.com> On 22 Oct 2007, at 2:09 AM, Adam Bridge wrote: > I need to do some basic X-Y graphs, but I need to display three or > four different sents of data with different Y axis scales. Are there > any low-cost applications that will do this? Excel, at least the > version I have, doesn't and Numbers is hopeless. > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Adam > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk Hi, R will do it. R does anything. ZP -- Jos? Pedro Sousa do Amaral I used to think romantic love was a neurosis shared by two, a supreme foolishness. I no longer thought that. There's nothing foolish in loving anyone. Thinking you'll be loved in return is what's foolish. -- Rita Mae Brown From balhoff at mac.com Mon Oct 22 13:54:45 2007 From: balhoff at mac.com (Jim Balhoff) Date: Mon Oct 22 13:54:36 2007 Subject: Recommendations on graphing software? In-Reply-To: <4cfa589b0710212309i28bacfeeo5905704f622643ee@mail.gmail.com> References: <4cfa589b0710212309i28bacfeeo5905704f622643ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6C307C5E-0165-4703-8FC3-D5648E02FC3F@mac.com> You may want to try DataGraph: - Jim On Oct 22, 2007, at 2:09 AM, Adam Bridge wrote: > I need to do some basic X-Y graphs, but I need to display three or > four different sents of data with different Y axis scales. Are there > any low-cost applications that will do this? Excel, at least the > version I have, doesn't and Numbers is hopeless. > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Adam From kcall at mac.com Mon Oct 22 14:09:59 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Mon Oct 22 14:10:00 2007 Subject: shared Contact Server Message-ID: is there a shared contact server in Leopard Server (a la the iCal server ? ) ? K From pelorus at mac.com Mon Oct 22 15:38:48 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Mon Oct 22 15:38:56 2007 Subject: shared Contact Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7BEF1509-333F-47C4-B473-2AD0C370A583@mac.com> On 22 Oct 2007, at 22:09, Kevin Callahan wrote: > is there a shared contact server in Leopard Server (a la the iCal > server ? ) ? Yup. http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/features/directory.html From kremels at kreme.com Mon Oct 22 16:59:15 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Mon Oct 22 17:00:06 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <20071019223655.GL3486@boing.oerks.net> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <20071019223655.GL3486@boing.oerks.net> Message-ID: On 19-Oct-2007, at 16:36, Sven C. Koehler wrote: > What happens if I unplug my external backup disk for a while? Magic 8-ball says "Ask again later". Like Satyrday. -- You know, Calculus is sort of like measles. Once you've had it, you probably won't get it again, and you're glad of it. -- W. Carr From hexstar at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 19:24:42 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Mon Oct 22 19:24:44 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <20071019223655.GL3486@boing.oerks.net> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <20071019223655.GL3486@boing.oerks.net> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0710221924i1f1e576fw69dcd1d44ff78f63@mail.gmail.com> On 10/19/07, Sven C. Koehler wrote: > What happens if I unplug my external backup disk for a while? Does > timemachine still log what files are changed and will backup these the > next time I plug in the disk again? I wonder this too and thus I don't feel to confident in enabling Time Machine on my macbook which goes with me on travels (and naturally it won't be convenient to lug my external HD around with me during those times) From matthew.penna at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 19:37:55 2007 From: matthew.penna at gmail.com (Matt Penna) Date: Mon Oct 22 19:38:01 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0710221924i1f1e576fw69dcd1d44ff78f63@mail.gmail.com> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <20071019223655.GL3486@boing.oerks.net> <5dc6fd9e0710221924i1f1e576fw69dcd1d44ff78f63@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Oct 22, 2007, at 10:24 PM, Hex Star wrote: > On 10/19/07, Sven C. Koehler wrote: >> What happens if I unplug my external backup disk for a while? Does >> timemachine still log what files are changed and will backup these >> the >> next time I plug in the disk again? > > I wonder this too and thus I don't feel to confident in enabling Time > Machine on my macbook which goes with me on travels (and naturally it > won't be convenient to lug my external HD around with me during those > times) Apple's Time Machine page explains a lot of this: http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/timemachine.html "Ready when you are. "When your mobile Mac is connected to your backup drive, Time Machine works as you?d expect. When it isn?t connected, Time Machine also works as you?d expect. It keeps track of which files have changed since the last backup and backs them up to your backup drive the next time you connect. On any Mac, if Time Machine is unable to perform a backup, that?s duly noted in its preferences pane." Sounds like it's fairly intelligent about things. I hope it works as well in practice as it does in the marketing glossies! We'll all know by Saturday. Matt From hexstar at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 19:42:35 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Mon Oct 22 19:42:41 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <20071019223655.GL3486@boing.oerks.net> <5dc6fd9e0710221924i1f1e576fw69dcd1d44ff78f63@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0710221942w5696f3c4m732d5e8b909b0696@mail.gmail.com> On 10/22/07, Matt Penna wrote: > We'll all know by Saturday. Going to tough it out waiting in line huh? I'm having amazon deliver it to my door... :) From wiswp at niue.nu Mon Oct 22 19:43:45 2007 From: wiswp at niue.nu (Bill Wisse) Date: Mon Oct 22 19:43:51 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0710221924i1f1e576fw69dcd1d44ff78f63@mail.gmail.com> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <20071019223655.GL3486@boing.oerks.net> <5dc6fd9e0710221924i1f1e576fw69dcd1d44ff78f63@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5605B39D-DBF6-4E38-8D9C-34FCBD58D42B@niue.nu> On 22/10/2007, at 3:24 PM, Hex Star wrote: > I wonder this too and thus I don't feel to confident in enabling Time > Machine on my macbook which goes with me on travels (and naturally it > won't be convenient to lug my external HD around with me during those > times) How are you doing any backups now? Time machine doesn't change anything , it will only do a full backup when you first start using it and then incremental. IAW back up everything between then and now. And don't forget you don't HAVE to use Time machine, if you have a good system now , leave it. Greetings from /bill at 169 west , 19 south. Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors From hexstar at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 19:45:17 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Mon Oct 22 19:45:20 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <5605B39D-DBF6-4E38-8D9C-34FCBD58D42B@niue.nu> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <20071019223655.GL3486@boing.oerks.net> <5dc6fd9e0710221924i1f1e576fw69dcd1d44ff78f63@mail.gmail.com> <5605B39D-DBF6-4E38-8D9C-34FCBD58D42B@niue.nu> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0710221945v60e43e1cp49dce981a40460e3@mail.gmail.com> On 10/22/07, Bill Wisse wrote: > How are you doing any backups now? > Time machine doesn't change anything , it will only do a full backup > when you first start > using it and then incremental. IAW back up everything between then > and now. > And don't forget you don't HAVE to use Time machine, if you have a > good system now , leave it. Good catch, I'm not currently performing backups (although I know I should). The one time a hard drive did start to fail it was caught pretty quickly by me and I acted quick enough to be able to resuce my data before the drive completely stopped working. However I know that I may not always be this lucky and as such my next purchase will be a external IDE enclosure... :) From info at stevendewitt.ca Tue Oct 23 06:43:11 2007 From: info at stevendewitt.ca (Steven DeWitt) Date: Tue Oct 23 07:25:04 2007 Subject: Uninstalling Bootcamp Message-ID: <62E3491D-2558-448D-808C-4CC1137A7DF3@stevendewitt.ca> Hello, I recently installed and then uninstalled Bootcamp. I followed the instructions for uninstallation, and the Bootcamp partition went away, but I still have to hold down the Option key every time I turn the power on in order to load OS X; otherwise I just get an empty grey screen. Is there a way to have OS X start up automatically like it used to before Bootcamp? Thanks, Steve -- Steven DeWitt, C. Tran. (FR>EN, ES>EN, en>fr) Fredericton NB CANADA mail [at] stevendewitt [dot] ca From kremels at kreme.com Tue Oct 23 07:59:31 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Tue Oct 23 08:00:18 2007 Subject: preparing for Time Machine In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0710221942w5696f3c4m732d5e8b909b0696@mail.gmail.com> References: <6F893BE4-BB62-436E-A7E1-72B6A53DEC16@mac.com> <20071019223655.GL3486@boing.oerks.net> <5dc6fd9e0710221924i1f1e576fw69dcd1d44ff78f63@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0710221942w5696f3c4m732d5e8b909b0696@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16CACA54-C953-46E0-B013-F3C64FD22EE5@kreme.com> On 22-Oct-2007, at 20:42, Hex Star wrote: > On 10/22/07, Matt Penna wrote: >> We'll all know by Saturday. > > Going to tough it out waiting in line huh? I'm having amazon deliver > it to my door... :) Nope, but I figure thing like Time Machine and removing backup drives will not be the very first thing most people check, and even so, Friday night they will be playing with leopard, reinstalling whatever CLI stuff they have, and moving their data around between drives. So Saturday. -- Clark's Law: Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice Clark Slaw: Anything that has been severely damaged or destroyed by application of Clark's Law From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Oct 23 09:05:48 2007 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Tue Oct 23 09:19:58 2007 Subject: Apple TV as "Home Server" In-Reply-To: References: <22D60BD7-5EB5-4377-9A62-EE3C3A669E85@laubenthal.net> <16F2794C-41AF-45B5-97EA-1A232D01D187@mac.com> <3BCDFC01-7245-40F6-ABA3-1FBC5EE0F144@mac.com> <447D22B8-B98A-48D7-9A46-0042179324B9@maxify.com> Message-ID: <027AC667-B3A9-45C4-8B80-8FAB42189CF6@bloomington.in.us> >> On Feb 12, 2007, at 6:31 AM, Michael Winter wrote: >>> I really wish they would put one in. Otherwise I still need a DVD >>> player connected in somewhere along the line. I >> I think this would affect the price point. Not just because of the >> drive itself, but because of the hit on power, heat > True . . .but I don't think it would really affect it that much > from a hardware perspective. From SW What if they included a dual ("tru-el"??) BluRay/HD-DVD/DVD drive (do these exist yet? I thought I read somewhere there was someone making a dual BluRay/HD-DVD drive) Although, isn't Apple firmly in the BluRay camp now? IMO, I wish they'd separate the physical tech from the software: people seem to like BluRay for it's physical tech and maybe the Java thing, and HD/DVD because of AACS.. Why not just combine the two? By the time this is is mid-swing, there will be something bigger anyway probably (two-layer HVD anyone?) From William.Enestvedt at jwu.edu Tue Oct 23 12:17:20 2007 From: William.Enestvedt at jwu.edu (William Enestvedt) Date: Tue Oct 23 12:15:48 2007 Subject: Part number for new MBP install DVD? Message-ID: "Long-time listener, first-time caller here." Can anyone tell me the part number for the install DVD for a nice, new MacBook Pro (which itself is model A1226)? Our support guys gave us an older DVD (which says Disc version 1.3, 2Z691-5831-A), and the Mac won't boot from it. The words silk-screened on the DVD's face that read "Copyright 2006" made me nervous as soon as they handed it to me. :7( Apparently they just throw all the install media away or into a box. *facepalm* Thanks for any suggestions, info, or pointers into Apple's support site. - Will -- Will Enestvedt UIS Database Team Lead & Unix System Administrator Johnson & Wales University -- Providence, RI From balhoff at mac.com Tue Oct 23 12:24:09 2007 From: balhoff at mac.com (Jim Balhoff) Date: Tue Oct 23 12:24:26 2007 Subject: Part number for new MBP install DVD? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D500662-12D3-4BCA-8CF5-2919AB9DAD33@mac.com> I have an A1226 bought in August - my install disc says: Mac OS version 10.4.10 AHT version 3A124 Disc version 1.2 2Z691-6088-A On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:17 PM, William Enestvedt wrote: > Can anyone tell me the part number for the install DVD for a nice, > new MacBook Pro (which itself is model A1226)? From hexstar at gmail.com Tue Oct 23 23:24:05 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Tue Oct 23 23:24:08 2007 Subject: Uninstalling Bootcamp In-Reply-To: <62E3491D-2558-448D-808C-4CC1137A7DF3@stevendewitt.ca> References: <62E3491D-2558-448D-808C-4CC1137A7DF3@stevendewitt.ca> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0710232324g35b0cc55g920e60a41a3edeef@mail.gmail.com> On 10/23/07, Steven DeWitt wrote: > Hello, > > I recently installed and then uninstalled Bootcamp. I followed the > instructions for uninstallation, and the Bootcamp partition went > away, but I still have to hold down the Option key every time I turn > the power on in order to load OS X; otherwise I just get an empty > grey screen. Is there a way to have OS X start up automatically like > it used to before Bootcamp? You can do this via System Preferences>Startup Disk and select the Mac OS X disk From info at stevendewitt.ca Wed Oct 24 08:35:57 2007 From: info at stevendewitt.ca (Steven DeWitt) Date: Wed Oct 24 08:41:06 2007 Subject: Uninstalling Bootcamp In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0710232324g35b0cc55g920e60a41a3edeef@mail.gmail.com> References: <62E3491D-2558-448D-808C-4CC1137A7DF3@stevendewitt.ca> <5dc6fd9e0710232324g35b0cc55g920e60a41a3edeef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Le 24-Oct-07 ? 3:24 AM, Hex Star a ?crit : > On 10/23/07, Steven DeWitt wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I recently installed and then uninstalled Bootcamp. I followed the >> instructions for uninstallation, and the Bootcamp partition went >> away, but I still have to hold down the Option key every time I turn >> the power on in order to load OS X; otherwise I just get an empty >> grey screen. Is there a way to have OS X start up automatically like >> it used to before Bootcamp? > > You can do this via System Preferences>Startup Disk and select the > Mac OS X disk Thanks Hex, and thanks to Michael Bentley for his offline reply as well. Steven From kcall at mac.com Fri Oct 26 12:39:13 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Oct 26 12:39:16 2007 Subject: Leopard speed Message-ID: I'm rather shocked at how fast Leopard is - (MBPro 17) and this is while Spotlight is indexing my internal drive AND Time Machine is doing its first full-backup. Thanks Apple ! Kevin http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html http://www.xeniamara.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071026/c6514c84/attachment.html From shawnce at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 12:42:00 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Fri Oct 26 12:42:02 2007 Subject: Leopard speed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/26/07, Kevin Callahan wrote: > I'm rather shocked at how fast Leopard is - (MBPro 17) > and this is while Spotlight is indexing my internal drive AND Time Machine > is doing its first full-backup. Apple did a good amount of work on expanding the Intel optimizations in Leopard (better optimized Intel targetted math library). Of course Leopard is better dealing with multicore systems, etc. -Shawn From neil at laubenthal.net Fri Oct 26 12:57:58 2007 From: neil at laubenthal.net (Neil Laubenthal) Date: Fri Oct 26 12:58:06 2007 Subject: Leopard speed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071026155758.zhuzaqgcld1woo04@webmail.his.com> Quoting Kevin Callahan : > I'm rather shocked at how fast Leopard is - (MBPro 17) > and this is while Spotlight is indexing my internal drive AND Time > Machine is doing its first full-backup. What kind of install did you do . . .update, archive and install, or erase and install? Did you do a Time Machine backup before the install? How long did the install take? Are connected via cable or wireless . . .and do you see any noticeable network activity performance due to the Time Machine process? From kcall at mac.com Fri Oct 26 12:59:52 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Oct 26 12:59:58 2007 Subject: Time Machine Message-ID: <95C7F57E-418C-4081-AA81-D697A48B6442@mac.com> Due to only having a 100 Gig internal drive on my MBPro, I keep Documents on an external drive (using an alias). I also keep my iPhoto library and my iTunes library on an external drive. I keep Logic Pro and GarageBand files on yet another drive, and movie projects on yet another drive. I'm looking at the Time Machine window as it processes its first full- backup. I see the total is only 82 Gig - obviously, it's not grabbing my external docs, nor my photos and music libraries and other media. But, when I open the Time Machine preferences, there's an Options panel showing all the drives (5) connected to my MBPro, including the drive holding my media and docs. So it looks like it's not a problem backing up numerous drives to a single drive. I just need to buy a 1 or 2 terabyte drive. Anybody suggest a reliable large disk? ones to avoid? Thanks, Kevin From kcall at mac.com Fri Oct 26 13:08:01 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Oct 26 13:08:08 2007 Subject: Leopard speed In-Reply-To: <20071026155758.zhuzaqgcld1woo04@webmail.his.com> References: <20071026155758.zhuzaqgcld1woo04@webmail.his.com> Message-ID: On Oct 26, 2007, at 12:57 PM, Neil Laubenthal wrote: > Quoting Kevin Callahan : > >> I'm rather shocked at how fast Leopard is - (MBPro 17) >> and this is while Spotlight is indexing my internal drive AND Time >> Machine is doing its first full-backup. > > What kind of install did you do . . .update, archive and install, or > erase and install? I usually wipe my internal drive clean and start from scratch. But, I have so many sample libraries (audio) strewn about .. and the installation for my music apps, sample apps and others takes a VERY long time. Also, all my docs and media(photos, movies, DVDs etc) live on external drives, so my MBPro is really just the system, Developer and most of my apps (some apps I keep external as well). Not sure why it's about 83Gig ! but I felt the simple UPGRADE (not the archive install) , for now, would be okay. I'm going to buy a Dual Quad (next rev). I expect the system to be even faster on a clean install. > > Did you do a Time Machine backup before the install? how would I do that? I've been doing Apple Backup archives nightly. > > > How long did the install take? the install took 30 minutes on my MBPro 17 2.33 Ghz with 2Gig RAM. 100 Gig 7200 RPM internal drive. > > > Are connected via cable or wireless all my drives are firewire 400 or 800 > . . .and do you see any noticeable network activity performance due > to the Time Machine process? I haven't noticed any performance hits per s?. And as I said, even while all this Spotlight indexing and TM backup is happening, everything seems quite a bit faster than Tiger. From shawnce at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 13:11:44 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Fri Oct 26 13:11:50 2007 Subject: Leopard speed In-Reply-To: References: <20071026155758.zhuzaqgcld1woo04@webmail.his.com> Message-ID: On 10/26/07, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > Did you do a Time Machine backup before the install? > > how would I do that? When you run the Leopard installer it gives you the option to do a Time Machine backup before installing. -Shawn From kcall at mac.com Fri Oct 26 13:19:09 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Oct 26 13:19:13 2007 Subject: Leopard speed In-Reply-To: References: <20071026155758.zhuzaqgcld1woo04@webmail.his.com> Message-ID: <58E19D0D-AA16-4A50-AE1C-2228844EEA94@mac.com> On Oct 26, 2007, at 1:11 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > On 10/26/07, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >>> Did you do a Time Machine backup before the install? >> >> how would I do that? > > When you run the Leopard installer it gives you the option to do a > Time Machine backup before installing. > > -Shawn ah .. I don't recall seeing that k From shawnce at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 13:19:45 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Fri Oct 26 13:19:49 2007 Subject: Leopard speed In-Reply-To: <58E19D0D-AA16-4A50-AE1C-2228844EEA94@mac.com> References: <20071026155758.zhuzaqgcld1woo04@webmail.his.com> <58E19D0D-AA16-4A50-AE1C-2228844EEA94@mac.com> Message-ID: On 10/26/07, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > On Oct 26, 2007, at 1:11 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > > > On 10/26/07, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > > >>> Did you do a Time Machine backup before the install? > >> > >> how would I do that? > > > > When you run the Leopard installer it gives you the option to do a > > Time Machine backup before installing. > > > > -Shawn > > ah .. I don't recall seeing that It may depend on options selected before that point... :) -Shawn From sigzero at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 14:04:44 2007 From: sigzero at gmail.com (Robert Hicks) Date: Fri Oct 26 14:04:59 2007 Subject: Time Machine In-Reply-To: <95C7F57E-418C-4081-AA81-D697A48B6442@mac.com> References: <95C7F57E-418C-4081-AA81-D697A48B6442@mac.com> Message-ID: Kevin Callahan wrote: > Due to only having a 100 Gig internal drive on my MBPro, I keep > Documents on an external drive (using an alias). I also keep my iPhoto > library and my iTunes library on an external drive. I keep Logic Pro > and GarageBand files on yet another drive, and movie projects on yet > another drive. > > I'm looking at the Time Machine window as it processes its first > full-backup. I see the total is only 82 Gig - obviously, it's not > grabbing my external docs, nor my photos and music libraries and other > media. > > But, when I open the Time Machine preferences, there's an Options panel > showing all the drives (5) connected to my MBPro, including the drive > holding my media and docs. So it looks like it's not a problem backing > up numerous drives to a single drive. I just need to buy a 1 or 2 > terabyte drive. > > Anybody suggest a reliable large disk? ones to avoid? > I have a Seagate MyBook and it has worked flawlessly for me. I plan on getting the MyBook Studio as it is geared towards a Mac (it comes HFS+ formatted) and it is 1TB. FYI Robert From lists at toddwarfel.com Fri Oct 26 14:55:32 2007 From: lists at toddwarfel.com (Todd Zaki Warfel) Date: Fri Oct 26 14:55:39 2007 Subject: Time Machine In-Reply-To: <95C7F57E-418C-4081-AA81-D697A48B6442@mac.com> References: <95C7F57E-418C-4081-AA81-D697A48B6442@mac.com> Message-ID: Western Digital 1TB Book drives. We own two and have had great luck with them so far. On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:59 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > Anybody suggest a reliable large disk? ones to avoid? Cheers! Todd Zaki Warfel President, Design Researcher Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully. ---------------------------------- Contact Info Voice: (215) 825-7423 Email: todd@messagefirst.com AIM: twarfel@mac.com Blog: http://toddwarfel.com ---------------------------------- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071026/5be69430/attachment.html From bill at cheeseman.name Fri Oct 26 16:21:41 2007 From: bill at cheeseman.name (Bill Cheeseman) Date: Fri Oct 26 16:30:13 2007 Subject: Time Machine In-Reply-To: <95C7F57E-418C-4081-AA81-D697A48B6442@mac.com> Message-ID: on 2007-10-26 3:59 PM, Kevin Callahan at kcall@mac.com wrote: > Anybody suggest a reliable large disk? This is a terribly unreliable way for you to get good advice, but I'll bite. After losing half a dozen inexpensive drives from a well-known manufacturer I won't name on the day after the warranty expired over a short period of years, I started buying LaCie d2 drives despite the higher price. The ROI is better despite the higher price, and I've been very happy ever since. I now have 200G, 250G, 500G and 1T LaCie d2 FireWire 800 drives hanging off my dual G5, and I'm very happy with them. I bought the 1T drive just a few days too early; otherwise, if I'd known what was coming, I would have bought a 2T LaCie drive. But I think the 1T drive will be adequate to back up my internal drives on 4 Macs in my home office plus my wife's Mac using Time Machine -- even though I'm putting my iMovie '08 event folder on the same drive. (That last bit wasn't quite fair. Two of the Macs in my office are used only when the granddaughters are visiting and they need to play games: Barbie as Rapunzel for the 4-year old on a G3 tower running Mac OS 9.2.2, and Otto Matic for the 8-year old on an ancient G4 tower that just misses the cut for Leopard.) -- Bill Cheeseman - bill@cheeseman.name Quechee Software, Quechee, Vermont, USA www.quecheesoftware.com PreFab Software - www.prefabsoftware.com From kcall at mac.com Fri Oct 26 16:46:42 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Oct 26 16:46:49 2007 Subject: Time Machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8496ADC3-E4F4-4106-9B0E-357BA15BA6EC@mac.com> On Oct 26, 2007, at 4:21 PM, Bill Cheeseman wrote: > I started buying LaCie d2 drives despite the higher price. The ROI is > better despite the higher price, and I've been very happy ever > since. I now > have 200G, 250G, 500G and 1T LaCie d2 FireWire 800 drives hanging > off my > dual G5, and I'm very happy with them. I bought the 1T drive just a > few days > too early; otherwise, if I'd known what was coming, I would have > bought a 2T > LaCie drive. But I think the 1T drive will be adequate to back up my > internal drives on 4 Macs in my home office plus my wife's Mac using > Time > Machine -- even though I'm putting my iMovie '08 event folder on the > same > drive. > thanks - I have a LaCie 250, and two LaCie d2 500s I'm happy with. I am interested in their Terabyte drives - thanks K From bill at cheeseman.name Fri Oct 26 17:12:09 2007 From: bill at cheeseman.name (Bill Cheeseman) Date: Fri Oct 26 17:19:57 2007 Subject: Time Machine In-Reply-To: <8496ADC3-E4F4-4106-9B0E-357BA15BA6EC@mac.com> Message-ID: on 2007-10-26 7:46 PM, Kevin Callahan at kcall@mac.com wrote: > I am interested in their Terabyte drives - Beware that some of them are extra long -- the enclosures apparently contain two smaller disks mounted end to end. Doesn't bother me, but it was quite a surprise when UPS dropped the box off at the front door. And the two drives inside start up in serial, not in parallel, when you have them set to sleep after a period of nonuse. A little annoying. -- Bill Cheeseman - bill@cheeseman.name Quechee Software, Quechee, Vermont, USA www.quecheesoftware.com PreFab Software - www.prefabsoftware.com From sigzero at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 18:38:21 2007 From: sigzero at gmail.com (Robert Hicks) Date: Fri Oct 26 18:38:36 2007 Subject: Time Machine In-Reply-To: References: <95C7F57E-418C-4081-AA81-D697A48B6442@mac.com> Message-ID: Robert Hicks wrote: > Kevin Callahan wrote: >> Due to only having a 100 Gig internal drive on my MBPro, I keep >> Documents on an external drive (using an alias). I also keep my >> iPhoto library and my iTunes library on an external drive. I keep >> Logic Pro and GarageBand files on yet another drive, and movie >> projects on yet another drive. >> >> I'm looking at the Time Machine window as it processes its first >> full-backup. I see the total is only 82 Gig - obviously, it's not >> grabbing my external docs, nor my photos and music libraries and other >> media. >> >> But, when I open the Time Machine preferences, there's an Options >> panel showing all the drives (5) connected to my MBPro, including the >> drive holding my media and docs. So it looks like it's not a problem >> backing up numerous drives to a single drive. I just need to buy a 1 >> or 2 terabyte drive. >> >> Anybody suggest a reliable large disk? ones to avoid? >> > I have a Seagate MyBook and it has worked flawlessly for me. I plan on > getting the MyBook Studio as it is geared towards a Mac (it comes HFS+ > formatted) and it is 1TB. > > FYI > > Robert OOops... WD not Seagate. Me From glennc at mac.com Fri Oct 26 19:06:07 2007 From: glennc at mac.com (Glenn Carnagey) Date: Fri Oct 26 19:06:16 2007 Subject: Time Machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9D6A38CE-0115-1000-D457-D4CF3FF092D1-Webmail-10008@mac.com> On Friday, October 26, 2007, at 06:30PM, "Bill Cheeseman" wrote: >on 2007-10-26 3:59 PM, Kevin Callahan at kcall@mac.com wrote: > >> Anybody suggest a reliable large disk? > >This is a terribly unreliable way for you to get good advice, but I'll bite. > >After losing half a dozen inexpensive drives from a well-known manufacturer >I won't name on the day after the warranty expired over a short period of >years, I started buying LaCie d2 drives despite the higher price. The ROI is >better despite the higher price, and I've been very happy ever since..... (snip) I can second Bill's experience, I've also seen better longevity from LaCie external drives. g./ From mrhatken at mac.com Fri Oct 26 19:18:57 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Fri Oct 26 19:19:35 2007 Subject: Do Leopard and Tiger like each other? Message-ID: Howdy All, It's Leopard time (at last). I'm considering how best to upgrade to Leopard on a number of machines. It seems (as a result of some information from Apple and others) that various things in Leopard are "incompatible" with Tiger (e.g. Address Book, iCal) and Leopard may automatically update data when installed. Most of my machines have user data on a separate partition to the OS and another partition. I am wondering whether I can install Leopard on the other partition and set-up the accounts to use the user data, and then still be able to boot from the Tiger partition if things don't work out. So the question is: how well can Leopard and Tiger live together on the same machine, dual booting and sharing user data, at least for a while? Any experiences? Thanks in advance, Ashley. PS Most of these machine also sync their data with a (shared) .Mac account (although I don't mind turning that off for a while). -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) From kcall at mac.com Fri Oct 26 19:23:42 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Oct 26 19:23:48 2007 Subject: Leopard: GarageBand update won't install Message-ID: <94EC31AA-4DD8-4A18-A455-C2729D581702@mac.com> I get an error running the GB update: "The Installer could not install some files in ?/?. Contact the software manufacturer for assistance." anybody else seeing this? Kevin http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html http://www.xeniamara.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071026/a9b0c8d9/attachment.html From mrhatken at mac.com Fri Oct 26 19:43:42 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Fri Oct 26 19:44:17 2007 Subject: Time Machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10877031-1EC2-4F63-A525-688B12DFFB6B@mac.com> Interestingly, a quick Google shows a somewhat different opinion (bad) of the La Cie drives (not that I am doubting the experiences reported here). BTW, I assume these drives are using hardware RAID 0. I'm not sure that's the best way to go for a backup. Can they configured to do different RAID levels? I know it is always a trade-off between space and time ... oops reliability but I would assume, naively, that a four disk RAID 0 drive is four times as likely to fail as a regular drive. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) From kcall at mac.com Fri Oct 26 20:00:45 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Oct 26 20:00:53 2007 Subject: Time Machine In-Reply-To: <10877031-1EC2-4F63-A525-688B12DFFB6B@mac.com> References: <10877031-1EC2-4F63-A525-688B12DFFB6B@mac.com> Message-ID: <0C0ED00E-15F5-42BF-AE5F-8B279D478D1D@mac.com> On Oct 26, 2007, at 7:43 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > Interestingly, a quick Google shows a somewhat different opinion > (bad) of the La Cie drives (not that I am doubting the experiences > reported here). > > BTW, I assume these drives are using hardware RAID 0. I'm not sure > that's the best way to go for a backup. Can they configured to do > different RAID levels? i think it's better to go with the Quadra d2 drives over the Big Extreme (at least that is what I was told by a vendor) - but I'm still researching http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10869 http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10922 http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10351 Kevin http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html http://www.xeniamara.com/ > > > I know it is always a trade-off between space and time ... oops > reliability but I would assume, naively, that a four disk RAID 0 > drive is four times as likely to fail as a regular drive. > > Cheers, > Ashley. > > -- > Ashley Aitken > Perth, Western Australia > mrhatken at mac dot com > Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) > > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From kcall at mac.com Fri Oct 26 20:42:28 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Oct 26 20:42:33 2007 Subject: Finder? iTunes? iPhoto? Message-ID: <22D5EB6B-A1D6-42E3-BCB1-44A192E1A147@mac.com> which app am I in ? I like the convergence of the UIs, but sometimes I have to pause and figure out what app I'm in ... or when using Expos?, it's not immediately clear which window to select. Kevin http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html http://www.xeniamara.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071026/113087c7/attachment.html From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Oct 26 22:45:12 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Fri Oct 26 22:45:16 2007 Subject: Leopard is the Anti-Christ Message-ID: For those with ADC accounts that have software download capability, look at the image file size in the Safari "Downloads" window for the Leopard client (not the listed size on the ADC page -- the one that shows the download progress) ;-) Chad From kcall at mac.com Fri Oct 26 23:15:54 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Oct 26 23:16:00 2007 Subject: sorting on date created or date modified in a Finder's Smart Folder Message-ID: How do you view the results of a smart folder's contents sorted by date modified or date created? can you add columns for those attributes? maybe I'm just tired, but I don't see an option all I see is a last opened column K From finlay.dobbie at gmail.com Sat Oct 27 03:03:23 2007 From: finlay.dobbie at gmail.com (Finlay Dobbie) Date: Sat Oct 27 03:03:27 2007 Subject: Do Leopard and Tiger like each other? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 27/10/2007, Ashley Aitken wrote: > Most of my machines have user data on a separate partition to the OS > and another partition. I am wondering whether I can install Leopard > on the other partition and set-up the accounts to use the user data, > and then still be able to boot from the Tiger partition if things > don't work out. > > So the question is: how well can Leopard and Tiger live together on > the same machine, dual booting and sharing user data, at least for a > while? Any experiences? Probably not very well at all. Firstly, the user account database format has completely changed - NetInfo is gone in Leopard. So you'd at least have to duplicate that. Then you have the problem that a lot of configuration files (plists etc) will have changed format. The Mail database appears to have changed format (there's a conversion wizard thing which runs first time you launch it after you upgrade), and so on. I wouldn't suggest it. -- Finlay From lists at toddwarfel.com Sat Oct 27 06:09:31 2007 From: lists at toddwarfel.com (Todd Zaki Warfel) Date: Sat Oct 27 06:09:42 2007 Subject: Time Machine In-Reply-To: References: <95C7F57E-418C-4081-AA81-D697A48B6442@mac.com> Message-ID: <01AF2970-1D01-4D76-A649-51D0A7310C0C@toddwarfel.com> Funny, I was wondering if I had the wrong brand since I said WD. On Oct 26, 2007, at 9:38 PM, Robert Hicks wrote: > OOops... WD not Seagate. Cheers! Todd Zaki Warfel President, Design Researcher Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully. ---------------------------------- Contact Info Voice: (215) 825-7423 Email: todd@messagefirst.com AIM: twarfel@mac.com Blog: http://toddwarfel.com ---------------------------------- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071027/edf9a099/attachment.html From lists at toddwarfel.com Sat Oct 27 06:10:38 2007 From: lists at toddwarfel.com (Todd Zaki Warfel) Date: Sat Oct 27 06:10:44 2007 Subject: Time Machine In-Reply-To: <9D6A38CE-0115-1000-D457-D4CF3FF092D1-Webmail-10008@mac.com> References: <9D6A38CE-0115-1000-D457-D4CF3FF092D1-Webmail-10008@mac.com> Message-ID: <5612CFA5-85FE-42B9-8958-EF7FD284F95C@toddwarfel.com> I've had two Lacie drives go bad on me. That was two years ago and I haven't purchased once since. I have had really good luck with the WD drives and the Lacie Porsche drives, but not their regular drives. Has their quality improved in the past two years? On Oct 26, 2007, at 10:06 PM, Glenn Carnagey wrote: > I can second Bill's experience, I've also seen better longevity > from LaCie external drives. Cheers! Todd Zaki Warfel President, Design Researcher Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully. ---------------------------------- Contact Info Voice: (215) 825-7423 Email: todd@messagefirst.com AIM: twarfel@mac.com Blog: http://toddwarfel.com ---------------------------------- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071027/da60aeca/attachment.html From lists at toddwarfel.com Sat Oct 27 06:15:58 2007 From: lists at toddwarfel.com (Todd Zaki Warfel) Date: Sat Oct 27 06:16:09 2007 Subject: Leopard is the Anti-Christ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: BTW, I just got an email from ADC that they're shipping Leopard, Leopard Server, and XCode in the Nov CDs, which are expected to ship Oct 30th. On Oct 27, 2007, at 1:45 AM, Chad Leigh wrote: > For those with ADC accounts that have software download capability, > look at the image file size in the Safari "Downloads" window for > the Leopard client (not the listed size on the ADC page -- the one > that shows the download progress) > > ;-) > > Chad > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk Cheers! Todd Zaki Warfel President, Design Researcher Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully. ---------------------------------- Contact Info Voice: (215) 825-7423 Email: todd@messagefirst.com AIM: twarfel@mac.com Blog: http://toddwarfel.com ---------------------------------- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071027/68dbfe07/attachment.html From lomion at gmail.com Sat Oct 27 07:35:07 2007 From: lomion at gmail.com (Larry Sica) Date: Sat Oct 27 07:35:11 2007 Subject: Finder? iTunes? iPhoto? In-Reply-To: <22D5EB6B-A1D6-42E3-BCB1-44A192E1A147@mac.com> References: <22D5EB6B-A1D6-42E3-BCB1-44A192E1A147@mac.com> Message-ID: <446FEC9E-2852-4C0E-B31B-B7A5204CB00B@gmail.com> On Oct 26, 2007, at 11:42 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > which app am I in ? I like the convergence of the UIs, but > sometimes I have to pause and figure out what app I'm in ... > or when using Expos?, it's not immediately clear which window to > select. > In theory isn't that good in some ways? The idea being you just do your work without worrying about the tool so much? The UI is *much* more consistent now. The finder seems to be going next-ish with the icons though. --Larry From kcall at mac.com Sat Oct 27 08:47:12 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sat Oct 27 08:47:20 2007 Subject: Finder? iTunes? iPhoto? In-Reply-To: <446FEC9E-2852-4C0E-B31B-B7A5204CB00B@gmail.com> References: <22D5EB6B-A1D6-42E3-BCB1-44A192E1A147@mac.com> <446FEC9E-2852-4C0E-B31B-B7A5204CB00B@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Oct 27, 2007, at 7:35 AM, Larry Sica wrote: > > On Oct 26, 2007, at 11:42 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> >> which app am I in ? I like the convergence of the UIs, but >> sometimes I have to pause and figure out what app I'm in ... >> or when using Expos?, it's not immediately clear which window to >> select. >> > > In theory isn't that good in some ways? that's the part I like the part the takes some extra time is figuring what window I'm in .. maybe it would be better to have one window .. that does Finder, Photos, Music etc if that's what they're moving towards > The idea being you just do your work without worrying about the tool > so much? The UI is *much* more consistent now. yes > The finder seems to be going next-ish with the icons though. From phil at dizm.com Sat Oct 27 10:49:45 2007 From: phil at dizm.com (Phil Larson) Date: Sat Oct 27 11:11:23 2007 Subject: Finder? iTunes? iPhoto? In-Reply-To: <446FEC9E-2852-4C0E-B31B-B7A5204CB00B@gmail.com> References: <22D5EB6B-A1D6-42E3-BCB1-44A192E1A147@mac.com> <446FEC9E-2852-4C0E-B31B-B7A5204CB00B@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Oct 27, 2007, at 7:35 AM, Larry Sica wrote: > > On Oct 26, 2007, at 11:42 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> >> which app am I in ? I like the convergence of the UIs, but >> sometimes I have to pause and figure out what app I'm in ... >> or when using Expos?, it's not immediately clear which window to >> select. >> > > In theory isn't that good in some ways? The idea being you just do > your work without worrying about the tool so much? The UI is *much* > more consistent now. The finder seems to be going next-ish with the > icons though. Why not use a command line for all your work then? Then everything looks mostly the same. I wish the simpleminded idea that everything in a GUI must look identical would just die. Things should be designed to be optimal for the task at hand. You can make a keyboard exactly like a car steering wheel, but why would you want to? The same applies to software. Phil From kcall at mac.com Sat Oct 27 11:24:23 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sat Oct 27 11:24:26 2007 Subject: Leopard: Time Machine doesn't back up to AirPort Disks Message-ID: <66C4CEFC-51E5-4F45-84FC-1AB73CCB949C@mac.com> Mac OS X 10.5: Time Machine doesn't back up to AirPort Disks Time Machine in Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard can be used to back up to many kinds of Mac OS Extended-formatted drives, but it does not support AirPort Extreme's AirPort Disk feature. Time Machine can back up to another Mac running Leopard with Personal File Sharing, or to a Leopard Server volume, or an Xsan storage device. Learn more about Time Machine here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071027/4d5f0c6d/attachment.html From glennc at mac.com Sat Oct 27 13:30:11 2007 From: glennc at mac.com (Glenn Carnagey) Date: Sat Oct 27 13:30:21 2007 Subject: Time Machine In-Reply-To: <5612CFA5-85FE-42B9-8958-EF7FD284F95C@toddwarfel.com> References: <9D6A38CE-0115-1000-D457-D4CF3FF092D1-Webmail-10008@mac.com> <5612CFA5-85FE-42B9-8958-EF7FD284F95C@toddwarfel.com> Message-ID: <4022EBD6-27A9-4E90-8D98-38911FF6ADE1@mac.com> On Oct 27, 2007, at 8:10 AM, Todd Zaki Warfel wrote: > I've had two Lacie drives go bad on me. That was two years ago and > I haven't purchased once since. I have had really good luck with > the WD drives and the Lacie Porsche drives, but not their regular > drives. > > Has their quality improved in the past two years? > > On Oct 26, 2007, at 10:06 PM, Glenn Carnagey wrote: > >> I can second Bill's experience, I've also seen better longevity >> from LaCie external drives. my most recent experience is with 3 80GB Porsches that have all lasted well. this is really subjective, but my experience is good. g./ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071027/50eb7d2c/attachment.html From kcall at mac.com Sat Oct 27 14:17:57 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sat Oct 27 14:18:00 2007 Subject: Leopard NOTES question Message-ID: <31A20D12-0425-4B31-BF60-8015FDDB3CDF@mac.com> how do you sync Leopard NOTES with iPhone NOTES ? K From shawnce at gmail.com Sat Oct 27 14:21:06 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Sat Oct 27 14:21:08 2007 Subject: Leopard NOTES question In-Reply-To: <31A20D12-0425-4B31-BF60-8015FDDB3CDF@mac.com> References: <31A20D12-0425-4B31-BF60-8015FDDB3CDF@mac.com> Message-ID: On 10/27/07, Kevin Callahan wrote: > how do you sync Leopard NOTES with iPhone NOTES ? At this time I don't believe you can. Some believe it is waiting on an iPhone update due to a problem found near the end of the release cycle of Leopard. -Shawn From bcarter at nd.edu Sat Oct 27 12:38:36 2007 From: bcarter at nd.edu (Bruce Carter) Date: Sat Oct 27 14:55:33 2007 Subject: Time Machine In-Reply-To: <8496ADC3-E4F4-4106-9B0E-357BA15BA6EC@mac.com> References: <8496ADC3-E4F4-4106-9B0E-357BA15BA6EC@mac.com> Message-ID: <70E43723-8059-4748-80C0-A5A3436656B5@nd.edu> I have one of the 1.2TB array drives for server snapshots. No complaints thus far... On Oct 26, 2007, at 7:46 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > I have a LaCie 250, and two LaCie d2 500s I'm happy with. > I am interested in their Terabyte drives - -- Bruce Carter, Senior Systems Engineer http://www.nd.edu/~bcarter/ Center for Creative Computing, University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame, IN 46556 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2411 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071027/2b672447/smime.bin From bcarter at nd.edu Sat Oct 27 12:42:24 2007 From: bcarter at nd.edu (Bruce Carter) Date: Sat Oct 27 14:55:41 2007 Subject: Leopard is the Anti-Christ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50A93CAE-BA51-4706-A9A5-4B75EC2E195E@nd.edu> That is hilarious! On Oct 27, 2007, at 1:45 AM, Chad Leigh wrote: > For those with ADC accounts that have software download capability, > look at the image file size in the Safari "Downloads" window for the > Leopard client (not the listed size on the ADC page -- the one that > shows the download progress) -- Bruce Carter, Senior Systems Engineer http://www.nd.edu/~bcarter/ Center for Creative Computing, University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame, IN 46556 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2411 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20071027/23d39b47/smime.bin From kcall at mac.com Sat Oct 27 15:06:39 2007 From