From jearle at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 02:17:28 2007 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Thu Mar 1 02:17:36 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5bbc0cd60703010217s13234434rf66ebc4ef6b5fb@mail.gmail.com> On 3/1/07, LuKreme wrote: > On 28-Feb-2007, at 18:53, Robert Hicks wrote: > > Does anyone know if Parallels needs its own partition? > > Nope. > > Partition are so 1995, you'd do best to forget the word, and the > concept. ... apart from when they're not, like BootCamp on a laptop. One of the better things about the latest parallels is that it can use your BootCamp partition as a virtual machine. For those who don't get the significance of having a separate Windows partition, it's called [insert favourite Windows game here]. Being able to use this lost space as your Parallels machine as well means an end to losing 32GB to XP/Vista twice. -- Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK jearle@gmail.com :: http://www.23x.net The Spodcast :: http://spodcast.org From david at idiomatrix.com Thu Mar 1 06:35:13 2007 From: david at idiomatrix.com (David Herren) Date: Thu Mar 1 06:35:19 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> Message-ID: Maybe this is un-necessary, but I find it very convenient to have a system partition and a data partition. I can reinstall if I need to without affecting my user data. On Mar 1, 2007, at 7:51 AM, Chad Leigh wrote: > Even then, they tend to get in the way unless you need separate > partitions to install multiple copies of the OS or something. /david -- david herren - shoreham, vt us na terra solsys orionarm "I'm going to work with every Cabinet member to set a series of goals for each Cabinet." -George W. Bush, Austin, TX, Jan 2, 2001 http://www.bushorchimp.com/ From pelorus at mac.com Thu Mar 1 06:45:44 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Mar 1 06:45:52 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> Message-ID: <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> On 1 Mar 2007, at 14:35, David Herren wrote: > Maybe this is un-necessary, but I find it very convenient to have a > system partition and a data partition. I can reinstall if I need to > without affecting my user data. I find that unnecessary :) User data is in the user folder! From shawnce at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 08:17:25 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Mar 1 08:17:40 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Feb 28, 2007, at 5:53 PM, Robert Hicks wrote: > Does anyone know if Parallels needs its own partition? Parallels uses disk images which are just plan files. In the latest betas of Parallels you can also use a BootCamp created partition. The later allows you to share a singe Window OS install for both native booting and booting via a VM (Parallels). -Shawn From fracai at mac.com Thu Mar 1 08:54:31 2007 From: fracai at mac.com (Arno Hautala) Date: Thu Mar 1 08:54:50 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2007/03/01, at 11:17, Shawn Erickson wrote: > On Feb 28, 2007, at 5:53 PM, Robert Hicks wrote: > >> Does anyone know if Parallels needs its own partition? > > Parallels uses disk images which are just plan files. In the latest > betas of Parallels you can also use a BootCamp created partition. > The later allows you to share a singe Window OS install for both > native booting and booting via a VM (Parallels). How does this relate to the reports of having to re-validate, and then reaching your validation limit, when switching between Parallels and BootCamp? Is there a way around this? -- -- arno s. hautala /-\ arno@alum.wpi.edu -- -- From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Mar 1 09:35:17 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Thu Mar 1 09:35:30 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <5bbc0cd60703010217s13234434rf66ebc4ef6b5fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bbc0cd60703010217s13234434rf66ebc4ef6b5fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <997D8E90-6DFC-4DAD-AFF1-A80D5FE86EE5@objectwerks.com> On Mar 1, 2007, at 3:17 AM, Jared Earle wrote: > On 3/1/07, LuKreme wrote: >> On 28-Feb-2007, at 18:53, Robert Hicks wrote: >> > Does anyone know if Parallels needs its own partition? >> >> Nope. >> >> Partition are so 1995, you'd do best to forget the word, and the >> concept. > > ... apart from when they're not, like BootCamp on a laptop. > > One of the better things about the latest parallels is that it can use > your BootCamp partition as a virtual machine. For those who don't get > the significance of having a separate Windows partition, it's called > [insert favourite Windows game here]. Being able to use this lost > space as your Parallels machine as well means an end to losing 32GB to > XP/Vista twice. yes, this is a good idea and is a follow-on to what I said about installing multiple OSes Chad From david at idiomatrix.com Thu Mar 1 10:39:51 2007 From: david at idiomatrix.com (David Herren) Date: Thu Mar 1 10:39:57 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> Message-ID: <15FE878A-0961-4B7E-B621-8CDF53DB4DC1@idiomatrix.com> Which obviously gets killed when you format for a clean install... On Mar 1, 2007, at 3:45 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: > >> Maybe this is un-necessary, but I find it very convenient to have >> a system partition and a data partition. I can reinstall if I need >> to without affecting my user data. > > I find that unnecessary :) User data is in the user folder! /david -- david herren - shoreham, vt us na terra solsys orionarm "I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it." --- Groucho Marx From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Mar 1 11:06:54 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Mar 1 11:07:01 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0702282320p25291308j5d716af39f0d3d18@mail.gmail.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> <5dc6fd9e0702282320p25291308j5d716af39f0d3d18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Hex Star wrote: > > > On 2/28/07, *steve harley* > wrote: > > they whom i call Chad Leigh wrote: > > Even then, they tend to get in the way unless you need separate > > partitions to install multiple copies of the OS or something. > > yeah, the same way multiple hard drives get in the way > > they don't really...just think of a raid 1 or the mirrored raid setup > for backuping purposes ;-) :-) that was my (too subtle) point, except the RAID part is irrelevant -- the hassles of partitions are little different from the hassles of using multiple hard drives; they also have similar advantages; we don't hear many people say "avoid multiple hard drives because they get in the way" ... From joar at joar.com Thu Mar 1 11:40:17 2007 From: joar at joar.com (Joar Wingfors) Date: Thu Mar 1 11:40:39 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> <5dc6fd9e0702282320p25291308j5d716af39f0d3d18@mail.gmail.com> <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: On Mar 1, 2007, at 8:06 PM, steve harley wrote: > that was my (too subtle) point, except the RAID part is irrelevant > -- the hassles of partitions are little different from the hassles > of using multiple hard drives; they also have similar advantages; > we don't hear many people say "avoid multiple hard drives because > they get in the way" ... Partitions are only a hassle because our tools to work with them are so crude. Expect that to change when we move to ZFS a couple of years from now. j o a r From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Mar 1 12:16:28 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Thu Mar 1 12:16:32 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <15FE878A-0961-4B7E-B621-8CDF53DB4DC1@idiomatrix.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> <15FE878A-0961-4B7E-B621-8CDF53DB4DC1@idiomatrix.com> Message-ID: <9BB39C56-33BC-444B-99F9-2D5D4FAF827D@objectwerks.com> On Mar 1, 2007, at 11:39 AM, David Herren wrote: > Which obviously gets killed when you format for a clean install... Why are you formatting to do a clean install? You can install cleanly without formatting -- it just moves the old system to a previous systems folder Chad > > > On Mar 1, 2007, at 3:45 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: > >> >>> Maybe this is un-necessary, but I find it very convenient to have >>> a system partition and a data partition. I can reinstall if I >>> need to without affecting my user data. >> >> I find that unnecessary :) User data is in the user folder! > > > /david > > -- > david herren - shoreham, vt us na terra solsys orionarm > > "I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it." --- > Groucho Marx > > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Mar 1 12:17:24 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Thu Mar 1 12:17:29 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: On Mar 1, 2007, at 12:16 AM, steve harley wrote: > they whom i call Chad Leigh wrote: >> Even then, they tend to get in the way unless you need separate >> partitions to install multiple copies of the OS or something. > > yeah, the same way multiple hard drives get in the way under ZFS they just get added to the volume. Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Mar 1 12:26:17 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Thu Mar 1 12:26:20 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> <5dc6fd9e0702282320p25291308j5d716af39f0d3d18@mail.gmail.com> <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: On Mar 1, 2007, at 12:06 PM, steve harley wrote: > they whom i call Hex Star wrote: >> On 2/28/07, *steve harley* > > wrote: >> they whom i call Chad Leigh wrote: >> > Even then, they tend to get in the way unless you need >> separate >> > partitions to install multiple copies of the OS or something. >> yeah, the same way multiple hard drives get in the way >> they don't really...just think of a raid 1 or the mirrored raid >> setup for backuping purposes ;-) :-) > > that was my (too subtle) point, except the RAID part is irrelevant > -- the hassles of partitions are little different from the hassles > of using multiple hard drives; they also have similar advantages; > we don't hear many people say "avoid multiple hard drives because > they get in the way" ... Except there ARE differences. #1. Disks tend to be much bigger than partitions so you don't end up with your free space being on the wrong disk as often #2. Partitions are a choice. Disks aren't. In other words, multiple disks usually happen when I run out of space and need more. Partitions happen as a way of trying to guess your future organnizational needs, and usually not doing it right :-) Chad From david at idiomatrix.com Thu Mar 1 12:49:35 2007 From: david at idiomatrix.com (David Herren) Date: Thu Mar 1 12:49:45 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <9BB39C56-33BC-444B-99F9-2D5D4FAF827D@objectwerks.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> <15FE878A-0961-4B7E-B621-8CDF53DB4DC1@idiomatrix.com> <9BB39C56-33BC-444B-99F9-2D5D4FAF827D@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <84DB19C6-2026-46A8-8B60-457FB69C27D8@idiomatrix.com> Because I like to know I've gotten well rid of all the crud... and since it's a separate partition from my data, I can format and start with an entirely clean slate. On Mar 1, 2007, at 9:16 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: >> Which obviously gets killed when you format for a clean install... > > Why are you formatting to do a clean install? > > You can install cleanly without formatting -- it just moves the old > system to a previous systems folder /david -- david herren - shoreham, vt us na terra solsys orionarm Sometimes when you fill a vacuum, it still sucks. (like the current US presidency...) From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Mar 1 12:53:23 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Thu Mar 1 12:53:29 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <84DB19C6-2026-46A8-8B60-457FB69C27D8@idiomatrix.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> <15FE878A-0961-4B7E-B621-8CDF53DB4DC1@idiomatrix.com> <9BB39C56-33BC-444B-99F9-2D5D4FAF827D@objectwerks.com> <84DB19C6-2026-46A8-8B60-457FB69C27D8@idiomatrix.com> Message-ID: <69FB2D0C-693F-4F64-A975-5F9A15AF59D3@objectwerks.com> On Mar 1, 2007, at 1:49 PM, David Herren wrote: > Because I like to know I've gotten well rid of all the crud... and > since it's a separate partition from my data, I can format and > start with an entirely clean slate. But doing a clean install without formatting also gives you an entirely clean slate as far as the system is concerned. (And you can still retrieve those third party extensions you forgot to backup) Chad > > On Mar 1, 2007, at 9:16 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: > >>> Which obviously gets killed when you format for a clean install... >> >> Why are you formatting to do a clean install? >> >> You can install cleanly without formatting -- it just moves the >> old system to a previous systems folder > > > /david > > -- > david herren - shoreham, vt us na terra solsys orionarm > > Sometimes when you fill a vacuum, it still sucks. > (like the current US presidency...) > > From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Mar 1 12:56:57 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Mar 1 12:57:06 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: <45E73E19.4050405@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Chad Leigh wrote: > > On Mar 1, 2007, at 12:16 AM, steve harley wrote: > >> they whom i call Chad Leigh wrote: >>> Even then, they tend to get in the way unless you need separate >>> partitions to install multiple copies of the OS or something. >> >> yeah, the same way multiple hard drives get in the way > > under ZFS they just get added to the volume. i had only heard gushing generalities about ZFS, but after referring to wikipedia, i wonder if it's so easy ... looks like whole new sets of hassles and planning may be needed: in any case, as great as ZFS could be, i still might want to host more than one file system, or i might want to put my Photoshop scratch volume on a faster drive ... From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Mar 1 13:27:07 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Mar 1 13:27:13 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <69FB2D0C-693F-4F64-A975-5F9A15AF59D3@objectwerks.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> <15FE878A-0961-4B7E-B621-8CDF53DB4DC1@idiomatrix.com> <9BB39C56-33BC-444B-99F9-2D5D4FAF827D@objectwerks.com> <84DB19C6-2026-46A8-8B60-457FB69C27D8@idiomatrix.com> <69FB2D0C-693F-4F64-A975-5F9A15AF59D3@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <45E7452B.3060003@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Chad Leigh wrote: > But doing a clean install without formatting also gives you an entirely > clean slate as far as the system is concerned. not as far as the file system is concerned ... From shawnce at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 14:05:50 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Mar 1 14:06:00 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <69FB2D0C-693F-4F64-A975-5F9A15AF59D3@objectwerks.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> <15FE878A-0961-4B7E-B621-8CDF53DB4DC1@idiomatrix.com> <9BB39C56-33BC-444B-99F9-2D5D4FAF827D@objectwerks.com> <84DB19C6-2026-46A8-8B60-457FB69C27D8@idiomatrix.com> <69FB2D0C-693F-4F64-A975-5F9A15AF59D3@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On 3/1/07, Chad Leigh wrote: > (And you can still retrieve those third party extensions you forgot to backup) When you say "clean install" I think of the Erase and Install option which won't keep anything around... so I think you mean Archive and Install option. -Shawn From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Mar 1 14:07:54 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Thu Mar 1 14:08:00 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> <15FE878A-0961-4B7E-B621-8CDF53DB4DC1@idiomatrix.com> <9BB39C56-33BC-444B-99F9-2D5D4FAF827D@objectwerks.com> <84DB19C6-2026-46A8-8B60-457FB69C27D8@idiomatrix.com> <69FB2D0C-693F-4F64-A975-5F9A15AF59D3@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On Mar 1, 2007, at 3:05 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > On 3/1/07, Chad Leigh wrote: > >> (And you can still retrieve those third party extensions you >> forgot to backup) > > When you say "clean install" I think of the Erase and Install option > which won't keep anything around... so I think you mean Archive and > Install option. Well, yes, "clean install" can be either of those. You get a fresh non-upgraded version of the OS in both cases. The only "cross contamination" is things like user accounts and network settings. Chad > > > > -Shawn From kremels at kreme.com Thu Mar 1 14:23:24 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Mar 1 14:23:59 2007 Subject: iSight camera at Apple Store (Brussels) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03825F50-48D9-4319-A9FA-01F78C8AF12B@kreme.com> On 28-Feb-2007, at 14:50, Erik J. Barzeski wrote: > "Randal L. Schwartz" wrote on 2/27/07 9:54 pm: >> Is there *anything* worth knowing that isn't in WikiP these days? > > Your wife's birthday. Your anniversary. The names of your > children... :) Unless you remember birthdays as "The same as Yo Yo Ma" and then when you want to look it up, you go to wikipedia and look up Yo Yo Ma. And yes, I'm serious. -- Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Mar 1 14:27:31 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Mar 1 14:27:45 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> <5dc6fd9e0702282320p25291308j5d716af39f0d3d18@mail.gmail.com> <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: <45E75353.2010701@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Chad Leigh wrote: > Except there ARE differences. i merely said the _hassles_ are "little different", not that the reasons to use one or the other were the same; i think anyone who can bear the hassles of multiple drives can probably also bear the hassles of partitions, though there are different advantages for either i think its notable that we get patronizing admonitions at the mere mention of partitions, but nothing of the kind when people talk about multiple hard drives ... as for whether partitioning is more "voluntary" than adding a drive, i'd say the practicalities of laptops might be seen as "forcing" partitioning for some purposes; also, the sheer size of huge drives can be a problem; for example it can be handy to make a bootable clone of a boot volume, but this is not as easy when the boot volume is 500 GB From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Mar 1 14:47:03 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Thu Mar 1 14:47:08 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <45E75353.2010701@paper-ape.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> <5dc6fd9e0702282320p25291308j5d716af39f0d3d18@mail.gmail.com> <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> <45E75353.2010701@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: <554A6113-5E59-428A-B6A9-7990B6D1C439@objectwerks.com> On Mar 1, 2007, at 3:27 PM, steve harley wrote: > they whom i call Chad Leigh wrote: >> Except there ARE differences. > > i merely said the _hassles_ are "little different", not that the > reasons to use one or the other were the same; i think anyone who > can bear the hassles of multiple drives can probably also bear the > hassles of partitions, though there are different advantages for > either And my differences that I mentioned, at least one of them at least, said the hassles were NOT the same. You tend to run out of space with partitions more so than multiple drives since the drives are usually much bigger. Chd > > i think its notable that we get patronizing admonitions at the mere > mention of partitions, but nothing of the kind when people talk > about multiple hard drives ... > > as for whether partitioning is more "voluntary" than adding a > drive, i'd say the practicalities of laptops might be seen as > "forcing" partitioning for some purposes; also, the sheer size of > huge drives can be a problem; for example it can be handy to make a > bootable clone of a boot volume, but this is not as easy when the > boot volume is 500 GB > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Mar 1 14:51:08 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Thu Mar 1 14:51:12 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <45E75353.2010701@paper-ape.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> <5dc6fd9e0702282320p25291308j5d716af39f0d3d18@mail.gmail.com> <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> <45E75353.2010701@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: <7423F398-0505-48D0-9426-415F1DB23953@objectwerks.com> On Mar 1, 2007, at 3:27 PM, steve harley wrote: > they whom i call Chad Leigh wrote: >> Except there ARE differences. > > as for whether partitioning is more "voluntary" than adding a > drive, i'd say the practicalities of laptops might be seen as > "forcing" partitioning for some purposes; For general use, when? Why would a laptop force you to partition? If you have specil needs, like a need to install WIndows and Mac OS X, or multiple versions of OS X, etc then, yes, it can be advantageous. But the general case, not. > also, the sheer size of huge drives can be a problem; for example > it can be handy to make a bootable clone of a boot volume, but this > is not as easy when the boot volume is 500 GB > Again, special case. You can make a disk image bootable clone of a boot volume, can't you? (for backup purposes) . Otehrwise, why would you do this on the same disk? If your disk goes south, who cares how many clones of the boot partition you have on the same disk Chad > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From gregor.alessi at mac.com Thu Mar 1 15:28:37 2007 From: gregor.alessi at mac.com (Gregor Alessi) Date: Thu Mar 1 15:28:49 2007 Subject: iSight camera at Apple Store (Brussels) In-Reply-To: <03825F50-48D9-4319-A9FA-01F78C8AF12B@kreme.com> References: <03825F50-48D9-4319-A9FA-01F78C8AF12B@kreme.com> Message-ID: <62E0111F-9771-469D-BFD9-243BE4EB5F68@mac.com> On 01.03.2007, at 23:23, LuKreme wrote: > On 28-Feb-2007, at 14:50, Erik J. Barzeski wrote: >> "Randal L. Schwartz" wrote on 2/27/07 9:54 >> pm: >>> Is there *anything* worth knowing that isn't in WikiP these days? >> >> Your wife's birthday. Your anniversary. The names of your >> children... :) > > Unless you remember birthdays as "The same as Yo Yo Ma" and then > when you want to look it up, you go to wikipedia and look up Yo Yo Ma. > > And yes, I'm serious. I was born when the lowest non-tornadic atmospheric pressure, 87.0 kPa (870 mbar or 25.69 inHg), was recorded. Remember this day! Greg From kremels at kreme.com Thu Mar 1 16:09:22 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Mar 1 16:09:31 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <45E75353.2010701@paper-ape.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> <5dc6fd9e0702282320p25291308j5d716af39f0d3d18@mail.gmail.com> <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> <45E75353.2010701@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: <508729AC-80A1-469B-AA0B-CC6C04DFA279@kreme.com> On 1-Mar-2007, at 15:27, steve harley wrote: > as for whether partitioning is more "voluntary" than adding a > drive, i'd say the practicalities of laptops might be seen as > "forcing" partitioning for some purposes; The only real use of a partition under OS X is BootCamp. > also, the sheer size of huge drives can be a problem; for example > it can be handy to make a bootable clone of a boot volume, but this > is not as easy when the boot volume is 500 GB. It's much better and safer to make a bootable clone of your boot volume onto a separate disk, and cheapo USB2 external will save your butt much more often than a dedicated partition will. Especially since you can keep it in a locked drawer off-site. I spend $14 on a case and pulled a drive from a dead laptop. Installed 10.4.6 onto it without any extras and that's my emergency drive. -- From kremels at kreme.com Thu Mar 1 16:14:37 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Mar 1 16:14:45 2007 Subject: iSight camera at Apple Store (Brussels) In-Reply-To: <62E0111F-9771-469D-BFD9-243BE4EB5F68@mac.com> References: <03825F50-48D9-4319-A9FA-01F78C8AF12B@kreme.com> <62E0111F-9771-469D-BFD9-243BE4EB5F68@mac.com> Message-ID: <3C803DE2-FF41-42BF-99A2-5FF8E433D948@kreme.com> On 1-Mar-2007, at 16:28, Gregor Alessi wrote: > On 01.03.2007, at 23:23, LuKreme wrote: >> On 28-Feb-2007, at 14:50, Erik J. Barzeski wrote: >>> "Randal L. Schwartz" wrote on 2/27/07 >>> 9:54 pm: >>>> Is there *anything* worth knowing that isn't in WikiP these days? >>> >>> Your wife's birthday. Your anniversary. The names of your >>> children... :) >> >> Unless you remember birthdays as "The same as Yo Yo Ma" and then >> when you want to look it up, you go to wikipedia and look up Yo Yo >> Ma. >> >> And yes, I'm serious. > > I was born when the lowest non-tornadic atmospheric pressure, 87.0 > kPa (870 mbar or 25.69 inHg), was recorded. a mere 7 days before the Battle of Zamas and 14 days before the OK Corral (two birthdays in my family). It's also the same day as Columbus Day (another birthday) and a week after PBS's birthday (an anniversary of sorts). :) er.. we've strayed off-topic again, sorry! -- "Two years from now, spam will be solved," -- Bill Gates, January, 2004 From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Mar 1 16:26:51 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Mar 1 16:27:02 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <7423F398-0505-48D0-9426-415F1DB23953@objectwerks.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> <5dc6fd9e0702282320p25291308j5d716af39f0d3d18@mail.gmail.com> <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> <45E75353.2010701@paper-ape.com> <7423F398-0505-48D0-9426-415F1DB23953@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <45E76F4B.2090805@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Chad Leigh wrote: > > On Mar 1, 2007, at 3:27 PM, steve harley wrote: > >> they whom i call Chad Leigh wrote: >>> Except there ARE differences. >> >> as for whether partitioning is more "voluntary" than adding a drive, >> i'd say the practicalities of laptops might be seen as "forcing" >> partitioning for some purposes; > > For general use, when? Why would a laptop force you to partition? if you want multiple volumes, for any reason, but you don't want to carry around an external drive; i won't engage the "special needs" argument -- i don't see evidence that many people partition drives in the first place without having a "special need" >> also, the sheer size of huge drives can be a problem; for example it >> can be handy to make a bootable clone of a boot volume, but this is >> not as easy when the boot volume is 500 GB >> > > Again, special case. You can make a disk image bootable clone of a boot > volume, can't you? you can, but you can't boot from it, so it won't be very useful in an emergency; but that's beside the point -- the hassle of cloning a 500 GB boot volume isn't reduced by cloning it to a disk image > Otehrwise, why would you do > this on the same disk? you wouldn't, that's not at all what i was suggesting; you'd clone the boot partition to a volume on another drive; controlling the size of the boot volume facilitates this process; other space-consuming data (usually media files) can be stored on another volume and backed up separately; also, don't assume that a bootable backup only protects against physical drive failure an alternate strategy is to keep the home folder on another partition; this allows reinstalling the OS while preserving the home folder; Mike Bombich does this, for instance From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Mar 1 16:35:51 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Mar 1 16:36:00 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <554A6113-5E59-428A-B6A9-7990B6D1C439@objectwerks.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> <5dc6fd9e0702282320p25291308j5d716af39f0d3d18@mail.gmail.com> <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> <45E75353.2010701@paper-ape.com> <554A6113-5E59-428A-B6A9-7990B6D1C439@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <45E77167.2030800@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Chad Leigh wrote: > And my differences that I mentioned, at least one of them at least, said > the hassles were NOT the same. You tend to run out of space with > partitions more so than multiple drives since the drives are usually > much bigger. i see that as the same hassle, with possibly a different occurrence rate; for many uses, though, such as a boot volume intentionally restricted in size, space is managed differently and running out is not a constant struggle (the way Apple has tried to make the home folder "a place for everything" adds some surmountable obstacles to this) From kremels at kreme.com Thu Mar 1 16:55:14 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Mar 1 16:55:21 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <45E76F4B.2090805@paper-ape.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> <5dc6fd9e0702282320p25291308j5d716af39f0d3d18@mail.gmail.com> <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> <45E75353.2010701@paper-ape.com> <7423F398-0505-48D0-9426-415F1DB23953@objectwerks.com> <45E76F4B.2090805@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: On 1-Mar-2007, at 17:26, steve harley wrote: > they whom i call Chad Leigh wrote: >> On Mar 1, 2007, at 3:27 PM, steve harley wrote: >>> they whom i call Chad Leigh wrote: >>>> Except there ARE differences. >>> >>> as for whether partitioning is more "voluntary" than adding a >>> drive, i'd say the practicalities of laptops might be seen as >>> "forcing" partitioning for some purposes; >> For general use, when? Why would a laptop force you to partition? > > if you want multiple volumes, for any reason, but you don't want to > carry around an external drive; i won't engage the "special needs" > argument -- i don't see evidence that many people partition drives > in the first place without having a "special need" Nope. Most people who partition drives do it because that's what they were taught to do in 19? and so that's what they still do. I reently was working on someone's new iMac G5 and they had their 250GB SATA drive partitioned into 6 partitions. No additional OS, no Boot Camp, no bootable clean Systems, just 6 partitions because that's how they'd always done it. > an alternate strategy is to keep the home folder on another > partition; this allows reinstalling the OS while preserving the > home folder; Mike Bombich does this, for instance Reinstalling the OS doesn't wipe the home folder. I've installed (and reinstalled) OS X countless times since 10.0 and not once has my home been deleted. Erasing the Drive might but that's nothing to do with installing the OS. -- Lithium will no longer be available on credit From david at idiomatrix.com Thu Mar 1 21:28:15 2007 From: david at idiomatrix.com (David Herren) Date: Thu Mar 1 21:28:23 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread Message-ID: I'm running out of disc space on my old Powerbook G4. While I'd like to replace it, bottom line is that I can't afford to for a year or more. So, I'm looking at having a larger drive installed. It's got an 80 gig drive in it now. I'd like to stick at least a 120 gig drive in. I took it to the local "official" apple shop here in Spain (the only certified shop in Navarra). The guy I spoke with there is telling me that my 1.67MHz powerbook g4, 2 gigs ram, can't "handle" a drive as large as 120 gig, and that it will only accept a 100 gig drive. This sounds like horse hockey to me. Any feedback from you all? /david -- david herren - shoreham, vt us na terra solsys orionarm "His mother should have thrown him away and kept the stork." --- Mae West From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Thu Mar 1 21:33:27 2007 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Mar 1 21:39:10 2007 Subject: MB Power Brick (was: PowerMacs EOLed (and a wee announcement) In-Reply-To: <56263.216.163.128.130.1161199861.squirrel@webmail.rogerroger.org> References: <56263.216.163.128.130.1161199861.squirrel@webmail.rogerroger.org> Message-ID: <4B30DA27-3E01-4E32-8B28-C4A6ED2D9215@bloomington.in.us> On Oct 18, 2006, at 2:31 PM, Roger Howard wrote: > There's a good reason we have come to expect external power > supplies on laptops... I think I remember one laptop (some PC brand - maybe Dell or ThinkPad) that had an AC plug on the book. But then, this was an old computer, and I think the battery was in the front as I recall, not the back, and was surely NiMH,which might run cooler than LiIon. I *have* noticed with the MB that both the battery will get quite hot when it's charging at the end (I keep mine at around 40-60%, sometimes higher), and as well the pass-through from the AC power to USB power gets hot when my iPod is connected.. By that I mean hot, not just warm, to the touch on the side with the ports. Is this normal for the USB port, or should I get Apple to replace the logic board *again*?... (Or just argue they've spent more money repairing it than the computer sold for, so I just want a re-furb - and then hope it fairs better..) Jim From mrhatken at mac.com Thu Mar 1 21:45:21 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Thu Mar 1 21:46:02 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi David (et al.), On 02/03/2007, at 2:28 PM, David Herren wrote: > I'm running out of disc space on my old Powerbook G4. While I'd > like to replace it, bottom line is that I can't afford to for a > year or more. So, I'm looking at having a larger drive installed. > It's got an 80 gig drive in it now. I'd like to stick at least a > 120 gig drive in. I'm stuck with (only) a 1.25 Gz PowerBook G4 for a while as well - oh the pain ;-) > I took it to the local "official" apple shop here in Spain (the > only certified shop in Navarra). The guy I spoke with there is > telling me that my 1.67MHz powerbook g4, 2 gigs ram, can't "handle" > a drive as large as 120 gig, and that it will only accept a 100 gig > drive. > > This sounds like horse hockey to me. Any feedback from you all? I believe his is almost correct, but not exactly. Older PowerBooks (like mine and probably yours) were limited to 128GB volumes. So you should be able to install a 120GB drive without a problem. If you were considering a 160GB drive then you may need to consider the following third party driver: I am using it on an old PowerMac G4 and it works fine. They do *recommend* that you *partition* the drive though (into volumes less than 128GB) just in case you install it into a machine without the driver installed and screw up the volume. Hope that helps. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Mar 1 21:55:15 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Mar 1 21:55:25 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> <5dc6fd9e0702282320p25291308j5d716af39f0d3d18@mail.gmail.com> <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> <45E75353.2010701@paper-ape.com> <7423F398-0505-48D0-9426-415F1DB23953@objectwerks.com> <45E76F4B.2090805@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: <45E7BC43.8090502@paper-ape.com> they whom i call LuKreme wrote: > Nope. Most people who partition drives do it because that's what they > were taught to do in 19? and so that's what they still do. neither of us have statistics ... [me:] >> an alternate strategy is to keep the home folder on another partition; >> this allows reinstalling the OS while preserving the home folder; Mike >> Bombich does this, for instance > > Reinstalling the OS doesn't wipe the home folder. I've installed (and > reinstalled) OS X countless times since 10.0 and not once has my home > been deleted. s/my comment/what he actually wrote/ "At any moment I can, without discretion, wipe out my boot drive and reinstall from the DVD without losing any of my data" i mentioned it to show that smart people with good Mac OS X knowledge & skills, in case i don't seem to fit that category, can have legitimate reasons to partition their drives From david at idiomatrix.com Thu Mar 1 22:59:12 2007 From: david at idiomatrix.com (David Herren) Date: Thu Mar 1 22:59:19 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <508729AC-80A1-469B-AA0B-CC6C04DFA279@kreme.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> <5dc6fd9e0702282320p25291308j5d716af39f0d3d18@mail.gmail.com> <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> <45E75353.2010701@paper-ape.com> <508729AC-80A1-469B-AA0B-CC6C04DFA279@kreme.com> Message-ID: I do the same, except that I have two separate external disks and neither is a cheapo anymore (my wife got the cheapo). I admit to being anal about this, but the last serious problem I had with my laptop, when I was having serious corruption and failures on the internal drive, my "cheapo" external on which I had backups and a cloned system, ALSO failed coincidentally while attempting to restore. On Mar 2, 2007, at 1:09 AM, LuKreme wrote: > It's much better and safer to make a bootable clone of your boot > volume onto a separate disk, and cheapo USB2 external will save > your butt much more often than a dedicated partition will. > Especially since you can keep it in a locked drawer off-site. > > I spend $14 on a case and pulled a drive from a dead laptop. > Installed 10.4.6 onto it without any extras and that's my emergency > drive. /david -- david herren, shoreham, vt us na terra solsys orionarm "It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it." George W. Bush. http://www.bushorchimp.com/ From pelorus at mac.com Fri Mar 2 01:49:27 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Fri Mar 2 01:49:39 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <15FE878A-0961-4B7E-B621-8CDF53DB4DC1@idiomatrix.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> <15FE878A-0961-4B7E-B621-8CDF53DB4DC1@idiomatrix.com> Message-ID: <7AB07914-2321-4411-93C1-F3C8E4C16D22@mac.com> On 1 Mar 2007, at 18:39, David Herren wrote: > Which obviously gets killed when you format for a clean install... > > On Mar 1, 2007, at 3:45 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: >> >>> Maybe this is un-necessary, but I find it very convenient to have >>> a system partition and a data partition. I can reinstall if I >>> need to without affecting my user data. >> >> I find that unnecessary :) User data is in the user folder! If there's a NEED for the "format for clean install" option, then I'd frankly be repartitioning anyway. From googurl at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 14:05:54 2007 From: googurl at gmail.com (Mary H.) Date: Fri Mar 2 14:06:15 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 6:28 AM +0100 3/2/07, David Herren wrote: >I took it to the local "official" apple shop here in Spain (the only >certified shop in Navarra). The guy I spoke with there is telling me >that my 1.67MHz powerbook g4, 2 gigs ram, can't "handle" a drive as >large as 120 gig, and that it will only accept a 100 gig drive. ShopGuy may be thinking of this limitation: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86178 but it does not apply to your PowerBook, (a 1.67GHz, I assume you meant). (Or Ashley Aitken's PB.) If you check with the HD dealers, you'll see them offering big drives for your model. M From pelorus at mac.com Fri Mar 2 14:12:02 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Fri Mar 2 14:12:12 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2 Mar 2007, at 22:05, Mary H. wrote: > At 6:28 AM +0100 3/2/07, David Herren wrote: > >> I took it to the local "official" apple shop here in Spain (the >> only certified shop in Navarra). The guy I spoke with there is >> telling me that my 1.67MHz powerbook g4, 2 gigs ram, can't >> "handle" a drive as large as 120 gig, and that it will only accept >> a 100 gig drive. > > ShopGuy may be thinking of this limitation: He may just be an ass. M From sroebuck at mac.com Fri Mar 2 15:11:19 2007 From: sroebuck at mac.com (Scott Roebuck) Date: Fri Mar 2 15:11:35 2007 Subject: Parallels and a Modem... Message-ID: <429FFEA7-7A06-4010-925C-3BF7C67AAA4C@mac.com> I am having a senior moment and can't seem to find a way to recognize my Apple Modem in Windows XP Pro (in Parallels) on my Mac Book Pro. Is there a way? Thanks in advance, Scott - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070302/57aa326c/attachment.html From mrhatken at mac.com Fri Mar 2 15:58:04 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Fri Mar 2 15:59:29 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7E76C742-AEFD-4B90-9692-5C4A7900A131@mac.com> On 03/03/2007, at 7:05 AM, Mary H. wrote: > At 6:28 AM +0100 3/2/07, David Herren wrote: > >> I took it to the local "official" apple shop here in Spain (the >> only certified shop in Navarra). The guy I spoke with there is >> telling me that my 1.67MHz powerbook g4, 2 gigs ram, can't >> "handle" a drive as large as 120 gig, and that it will only accept >> a 100 gig drive. > > ShopGuy may be thinking of this limitation: > > http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86178 > > but it does not apply to your PowerBook, (a 1.67GHz, I assume you > meant). (Or Ashley Aitken's PB.) If you check with the HD dealers, > you'll see them offering big drives for your model. Yes, you're right Mary. Thanks for correcting me. I'd seen that tech article but couldn't see right-off which machines it applied too. My old PowerMac G4 definitely was included, but as you point out the Aluminium PowerBooks should be fine. Any machine after June 2002 is the cut-off I believe. One should also note, if I understand correctly, it doesn't apply to large drive connected by Firewire (or USB2), i.e. larger disks will work with older machines through these interfaces. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) From david at idiomatrix.com Sat Mar 3 08:04:26 2007 From: david at idiomatrix.com (David Herren) Date: Sat Mar 3 08:04:38 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: <7E76C742-AEFD-4B90-9692-5C4A7900A131@mac.com> References: <7E76C742-AEFD-4B90-9692-5C4A7900A131@mac.com> Message-ID: <5992FED3-860D-4658-993D-84E4DE42FB55@idiomatrix.com> So if I understand this correctly, my aluminum (aluminium) Powerbook G4 1.67 GHz (giga--Mary is correct) should be able to handle larger drives connected to the internal ATA bus. I know it can handle larger external drives since I regularly connect my 300 gig secondary backup drive and a 100 gig primary backup drive via firewire 800. On Mar 3, 2007, at 12:58 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > My old PowerMac G4 definitely was included, but as you point out > the Aluminium PowerBooks should be fine. Any machine after June > 2002 is the cut-off I believe. /david -- david herren - shoreham, vt us na terra solsys orionarm Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies. -Groucho Marx (I guess Dubya's a pretty good politician, then...) From kremels at kreme.com Sat Mar 3 11:21:54 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat Mar 3 11:22:04 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C3086DE-DA0B-4570-9D3D-E841768C0151@kreme.com> On 1-Mar-2007, at 22:28, David Herren wrote: > I took it to the local "official" apple shop here in Spain (the > only certified shop in Navarra). The guy I spoke with there is > telling me that my 1.67MHz powerbook g4, 2 gigs ram, can't "handle" > a drive as large as 120 gig, and that it will only accept a 100 gig > drive. Unless the physical dimensions of the 120GB drive are different, then yes, it's hooey. -- "I don't care if Bill Gates is the world's biggest philanthropist. The pain he has inflicted on the world in the past 20 years through lousy products easily outweighs any good he has done.... Apple is as arrogant as Microsoft but at least its stuff works as advertised" -- Graeme Philipson From kremels at kreme.com Sat Mar 3 11:23:14 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat Mar 3 11:23:24 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1-Mar-2007, at 22:45, Ashley Aitken wrote: > They do *recommend* that you *partition* the drive though (into > volumes less than 128GB) just in case you install it into a machine > without the driver installed and screw up the volume. Who do? Partitioning does not help with the 128GB 'barrier' as older controllers cannot physically read the upper part of the drive. Partitioning will make no difference, the space above 128GB will not be accessible. -- May you live in interesting times From pelorus at mac.com Sat Mar 3 11:27:02 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Sat Mar 3 11:27:10 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9DBB7056-E771-4E7A-A4D7-9DD9A030419B@mac.com> On 3 Mar 2007, at 19:23, LuKreme wrote: > On 1-Mar-2007, at 22:45, Ashley Aitken wrote: >> They do *recommend* that you *partition* the drive though (into >> volumes less than 128GB) just in case you install it into a >> machine without the driver installed and screw up the volume. > > Who do? > > Partitioning does not help with the 128GB 'barrier' as older > controllers cannot physically read the upper part of the drive. > Partitioning will make no difference, the space above 128GB will > not be accessible. Gawd, is this the modern Mac voodoo? From shawnce at gmail.com Sat Mar 3 11:34:38 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Sat Mar 3 11:35:07 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mar 3, 2007, at 11:23 AM, LuKreme wrote: > On 1-Mar-2007, at 22:45, Ashley Aitken wrote: >> They do *recommend* that you *partition* the drive though (into >> volumes less than 128GB) just in case you install it into a >> machine without the driver installed and screw up the volume. > > Who do? > > Partitioning does not help with the 128GB 'barrier' as older > controllers cannot physically read the upper part of the drive. > Partitioning will make no difference, the space above 128GB will > not be accessible. The partitioning recommendation isn't about the 48b LBA hardware capability... it is about the capability of the OS (at the time). Go review the tech note on it (not going to bother looking it up). -Shawn From winter at mac.com Sat Mar 3 12:00:46 2007 From: winter at mac.com (Michael Winter) Date: Sat Mar 3 12:01:00 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: <9DBB7056-E771-4E7A-A4D7-9DD9A030419B@mac.com> References: <9DBB7056-E771-4E7A-A4D7-9DD9A030419B@mac.com> Message-ID: <6F9BBE94-3613-4B6A-908B-96434D0BC388@mac.com> On Mar 3, 2007, at 1:27 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: > Gawd, is this the modern Mac voodoo? Its accomplished quite simply by conflating all the limitations Macs ever had and trying to apply them to current Macs. It sounds like people are combining the 4 GB partition required for the first of the G3 Macs to run OS X (those computers no longer run the most current version of OS X without a little hacking), with the 128 GB limit for Macs before the MD G4's. I'm waiting for someone to start mixing in 32 vs. 64 bit CPU's and how that limits drive size (or something like that). -Mike From pelorus at mac.com Sat Mar 3 12:08:12 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Sat Mar 3 12:08:20 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: <6F9BBE94-3613-4B6A-908B-96434D0BC388@mac.com> References: <9DBB7056-E771-4E7A-A4D7-9DD9A030419B@mac.com> <6F9BBE94-3613-4B6A-908B-96434D0BC388@mac.com> Message-ID: <011D4F38-EF27-4EBB-9C26-FE2D9154D1F8@mac.com> On 3 Mar 2007, at 20:00, Michael Winter wrote: > > On Mar 3, 2007, at 1:27 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: > >> Gawd, is this the modern Mac voodoo? > > Its accomplished quite simply by conflating all the limitations > Macs ever had and trying to apply them to current Macs. It sounds > like people are combining the 4 GB partition required for the first > of the G3 Macs to run OS X (those computers no longer run the most > current version of OS X without a little hacking), with the 128 GB > limit for Macs before the MD G4's. I'm waiting for someone to start > mixing in 32 vs. 64 bit CPU's and how that limits drive size (or > something like that). Stupid Macs. One mouse button suxxorz! From ehrich at mninter.net Sat Mar 3 12:56:18 2007 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Sat Mar 3 12:57:22 2007 Subject: Parallels and a Modem... In-Reply-To: <429FFEA7-7A06-4010-925C-3BF7C67AAA4C@mac.com> References: <429FFEA7-7A06-4010-925C-3BF7C67AAA4C@mac.com> Message-ID: <45E9E0F2.5080808@mninter.net> Scott Roebuck wrote: > I am having a senior moment and can't seem to find a way to recognize my > Apple Modem in Windows XP Pro (in Parallels) on my Mac Book Pro. It's a Mac. You don't need a modem (1). If you can't afford WiFi broadband get a PC. 1) or a second mouse button. From kremels at kreme.com Sat Mar 3 12:58:12 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat Mar 3 12:58:24 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: <6F9BBE94-3613-4B6A-908B-96434D0BC388@mac.com> References: <9DBB7056-E771-4E7A-A4D7-9DD9A030419B@mac.com> <6F9BBE94-3613-4B6A-908B-96434D0BC388@mac.com> Message-ID: <3880D6F2-074E-4607-8768-00108D819B8F@kreme.com> On 3-Mar-2007, at 13:00, Michael Winter wrote: > Its accomplished quite simply by conflating all the limitations > Macs ever had and trying to apply them to current Macs. It sounds > like people are combining the 4 GB partition required Er.. that's 8GB. I am constantly amazed at the amount of FUD, BS, and outright lies that supposed "professionals" try to spread. -- One by one the bulbs burned out, like long lives come to their expected ends. From sroebuck at mac.com Sat Mar 3 13:25:36 2007 From: sroebuck at mac.com (Scott Roebuck) Date: Sat Mar 3 13:25:46 2007 Subject: Parallels and a Modem... In-Reply-To: <45E9E0F2.5080808@mninter.net> References: <429FFEA7-7A06-4010-925C-3BF7C67AAA4C@mac.com> <45E9E0F2.5080808@mninter.net> Message-ID: Excuse me? If truth be told, I do not have any use for Windows at all... except for the fact that I need to use ProComm and PC Anywhere to connect to telecom and voice mail servers. This is my only reason for using Parallels and XP in the first place. I use the modem in OS X in conjunction with a little app called ZTerm to do most of what I need to do, moves adds and changes, but unfortunately these arcane telephone and voice mail systems run mostly in the Windows environment. What can I do? I thought it was a much better solution than having to cart around a PC in addition to my Mac. I found out however that this problem has to do with the fact that Parallels does not support USB 2. It will however in it's next release. For anyone interested, there is a Parallels Desktop for Mac build 3170 RC3, Release Candidate, version available at http:// www.parallels.com/products/desktop/beta_testing/ But hey... thanks for your response : ) Scott On Mar 3, 2007, at 12:56 PM, William Ehrich wrote: > Scott Roebuck wrote: >> I am having a senior moment and can't seem to find a way to >> recognize my Apple Modem in Windows XP Pro (in Parallels) on my >> Mac Book Pro. > > It's a Mac. You don't need a modem (1). If you can't afford WiFi > broadband get a PC. > > > 1) or a second mouse button. > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From mmalc_lists at mac.com Sat Mar 3 13:32:55 2007 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalc crawford) Date: Sat Mar 3 13:33:10 2007 Subject: Parallels and a Modem... In-Reply-To: References: <429FFEA7-7A06-4010-925C-3BF7C67AAA4C@mac.com> <45E9E0F2.5080808@mninter.net> Message-ID: On Mar 3, 2007, at 1:25 PM, Scott Roebuck wrote: > For anyone interested, there is a Parallels Desktop for Mac build > 3170 RC3, Release Candidate, version available at http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/beta_testing/ The release version (3186) is at: mmalc From shawnce at gmail.com Sat Mar 3 13:39:54 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Sat Mar 3 13:40:19 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: <6F9BBE94-3613-4B6A-908B-96434D0BC388@mac.com> References: <9DBB7056-E771-4E7A-A4D7-9DD9A030419B@mac.com> <6F9BBE94-3613-4B6A-908B-96434D0BC388@mac.com> Message-ID: <8B4EAC63-BAB9-4EB3-B9CC-22E9523065D9@gmail.com> On Mar 3, 2007, at 12:00 PM, Michael Winter wrote: > > On Mar 3, 2007, at 1:27 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: > >> Gawd, is this the modern Mac voodoo? > > Its accomplished quite simply by conflating all the limitations > Macs ever had and trying to apply them to current Macs. It sounds > like people are combining the 4 GB partition required for the first > of the G3 Macs to run OS X (those computers no longer run the most > current version of OS X without a little hacking), with the 128 GB > limit for Macs before the MD G4's. I'm waiting for someone to start > mixing in 32 vs. 64 bit CPU's and how that limits drive size (or > something like that). "The high capacity drive must be formatted using Mac OS X 10.2 or later in order for partition sizes beyond 128 GB to be recognized. If you plan to start the partition up from Mac OS 9.2.2, the partition sizes may be a maximum of 200 GB. If you have a drive that is larger than 200 GB in size, you will need to create multiple partitions with no single partition exceeding 200 GB in size. Once formatted, the drive will be recognized under the version of Mac OS 9.2.2 that comes with the Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors) and later products." -Shawn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070303/327ef002/attachment.html From sroebuck at mac.com Sat Mar 3 13:44:35 2007 From: sroebuck at mac.com (Scott Roebuck) Date: Sat Mar 3 13:44:43 2007 Subject: Parallels and a Modem... In-Reply-To: References: <429FFEA7-7A06-4010-925C-3BF7C67AAA4C@mac.com> <45E9E0F2.5080808@mninter.net> Message-ID: <59EFA0AC-9C30-48C5-94FD-66108199DCBF@mac.com> Thank you... a little behind as usual... got the other link from the support forum. On Mar 3, 2007, at 1:32 PM, mmalc crawford wrote: > > On Mar 3, 2007, at 1:25 PM, Scott Roebuck wrote: > >> For anyone interested, there is a Parallels Desktop for Mac build >> 3170 RC3, Release Candidate, version available at http:// >> www.parallels.com/products/desktop/beta_testing/ > > The release version (3186) is at: > > > mmalc > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From pelorus at mac.com Sat Mar 3 14:00:27 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Sat Mar 3 14:00:34 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: <8B4EAC63-BAB9-4EB3-B9CC-22E9523065D9@gmail.com> References: <9DBB7056-E771-4E7A-A4D7-9DD9A030419B@mac.com> <6F9BBE94-3613-4B6A-908B-96434D0BC388@mac.com> <8B4EAC63-BAB9-4EB3-B9CC-22E9523065D9@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 3 Mar 2007, at 21:39, Shawn Erickson wrote: > "The high capacity drive must be formatted using Mac OS X 10.2 or > later in order for partition sizes beyond 128 GB to be recognized. > If you plan to start the partition up from Mac OS 9.2.2, What is this Mac OS 9 of which you speak? (Mac OS 9 won't even run on the machine we're talking about) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070303/68a046d8/attachment.html From scott at cocoadoc.com Sat Mar 3 14:59:56 2007 From: scott at cocoadoc.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Sat Mar 3 15:08:51 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> Message-ID: <742E40DB-DEFE-49EB-826F-4F95B38DE4AC@cocoadoc.com> On Mar 1, 2007, at 9:45 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > > On 1 Mar 2007, at 14:35, David Herren wrote: > >> Maybe this is un-necessary, but I find it very convenient to have >> a system partition and a data partition. I can reinstall if I need >> to without affecting my user data. > > I find that unnecessary :) User data is in the user folder! > Yes, and the User folder lives on the data partition. it makes much,much sense if you do development. From scott at cocoadoc.com Sat Mar 3 15:04:45 2007 From: scott at cocoadoc.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Sat Mar 3 15:08:54 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <508729AC-80A1-469B-AA0B-CC6C04DFA279@kreme.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <45E67DE4.9090204@paper-ape.com> <5dc6fd9e0702282320p25291308j5d716af39f0d3d18@mail.gmail.com> <45E7244E.5060805@paper-ape.com> <45E75353.2010701@paper-ape.com> <508729AC-80A1-469B-AA0B-CC6C04DFA279@kreme.com> Message-ID: <2F853A33-E430-430E-A515-E0FE7C0D5295@cocoadoc.com> On Mar 1, 2007, at 7:09 PM, LuKreme wrote: > It's much better and safer to make a bootable clone of your boot > volume onto a separate disk, and cheapo USB2 external will save > your butt much more often than a dedicated partition will. > Especially since you can keep it in a locked drawer off-site. that (cheapo USB2) only works if you have an Intel machine, right? can't boot off USB on PPC (I've never had any luck) From pelorus at mac.com Sat Mar 3 15:32:53 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Sat Mar 3 15:33:00 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <742E40DB-DEFE-49EB-826F-4F95B38DE4AC@cocoadoc.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> <742E40DB-DEFE-49EB-826F-4F95B38DE4AC@cocoadoc.com> Message-ID: <43330A33-EFF5-486C-BF34-444B8D95C868@mac.com> On 3 Mar 2007, at 22:59, Scott Anguish wrote: > > On Mar 1, 2007, at 9:45 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > >> >> On 1 Mar 2007, at 14:35, David Herren wrote: >> >>> Maybe this is un-necessary, but I find it very convenient to have >>> a system partition and a data partition. I can reinstall if I >>> need to without affecting my user data. >> >> I find that unnecessary :) User data is in the user folder! >> > > Yes, and the User folder lives on the data partition. > > it makes much,much sense if you do development. Oh, Scott, don't be such a fuddy-duddy. Development machines are for development... Silly... From mrhatken at mac.com Sat Mar 3 18:05:43 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Sat Mar 3 18:06:24 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8EAB83D0-6CFA-4D2A-B1BC-2F058ADE5354@mac.com> On 04/03/2007, at 4:23 AM, LuKreme wrote: > On 1-Mar-2007, at 22:45, Ashley Aitken wrote: >> They do *recommend* that you *partition* the drive though (into >> volumes less than 128GB) just in case you install it into a >> machine without the driver installed and screw up the volume. > > Who do? > > Partitioning does not help with the 128GB 'barrier' as older > controllers cannot physically read the upper part of the drive. > Partitioning will make no difference, the space above 128GB will > not be accessible. Yes, but the guys who sell the driver to make older Macs work with larger drives recommend that you make the first partition less than 128GB when you are using their driver (on an older Mac). The reason being that if you boot the same Mac from a DVD or external drive that does not have the driver installed the OS will only see 128GB of any larger partition. Inevitably this would royally screw up the partition. So I think that's eminently professional advice and advice that I was willing to follow to reduce the risk of data loss. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) From gregor.alessi at mac.com Sun Mar 4 03:14:20 2007 From: gregor.alessi at mac.com (Gregor Alessi) Date: Sun Mar 4 03:14:29 2007 Subject: Speed up Mail.app Message-ID: Hi all There were discussions in the past about Mail.app getting slow when the boxes were filling. I just found this via digg and think this might help some of you too: http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/01/a-faster-way-to-speed-up-mailapp/ The results here were amazing. In short: quit Mail.app, open Terminal sqlite3 ~/Library/Mail/Envelope\ Index at the prompt, type vacuum subjects; wait til the prompt returns and quit sqlite with ctrl-D launch Mail.app It might be a good idea to make a backup of your Mail folder *before* attempting this. Regards Gregor From david at idiomatrix.com Sun Mar 4 03:33:30 2007 From: david at idiomatrix.com (David Herren) Date: Sun Mar 4 03:33:44 2007 Subject: Speed up Mail.app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53C04AC0-F3C3-4BAB-877F-E23C816E9B32@idiomatrix.com> bbum has a more complete description of what's going on with this: < http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/03/02/vacuuming-mails-envelope- index-to-make-mail-faster/> On Mar 4, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Gregor Alessi wrote: > > There were discussions in the past about Mail.app getting slow when > the boxes were filling. > > I just found this via digg and think this might help some of you too: > http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/01/a-faster-way-to-speed-up-mailapp/ /david -- david herren - shoreham, vt us na terra solsys orionarm I can resist anything but temptation. -R.S. From kremels at kreme.com Sun Mar 4 04:16:49 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sun Mar 4 04:17:05 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: <8EAB83D0-6CFA-4D2A-B1BC-2F058ADE5354@mac.com> References: <8EAB83D0-6CFA-4D2A-B1BC-2F058ADE5354@mac.com> Message-ID: <30044586-A53D-460B-A143-6A6A3ADC4C07@kreme.com> On 3-Mar-2007, at 19:05, Ashley Aitken wrote: > The reason being that if you boot the same Mac from a DVD or > external drive that does not have the driver installed the OS will > only see 128GB of any larger partition. > > Inevitably this would royally screw up the partition. So I think > that's eminently professional advice and advice that I was willing > to follow to reduce the risk of data loss. Well, maybe. I did once accidentally put a 160GB drive onto a machine that only was capable of reading the first 128GB. I copied files to and from it (Large 30GB+ files, iMovie packages and such) and then moved it back to the machine that could read the full drive. No problem. YMMV and I wouldn't recommend it, but keep in mind, the machines we are talking about in this thread are not 'older' machines. -- In other news, Gandalf died. -- Secret Diary of Boromir From robertlaferla at comcast.net Sun Mar 4 08:43:59 2007 From: robertlaferla at comcast.net (Robert La Ferla) Date: Sun Mar 4 08:44:08 2007 Subject: Speed up Mail.app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you!!! That fixed my problem even though the index after vacuuming is the same (very large) size. I don't know if they are planning to or not but Apple should turn on auto-vacuum for Leopard. On Mar 4, 2007, at 6:14 AM, Gregor Alessi wrote: > Hi all > > There were discussions in the past about Mail.app getting slow when > the boxes were filling. > > I just found this via digg and think this might help some of you too: > http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/03/01/a-faster-way-to-speed-up-mailapp/ > > The results here were amazing. > > In short: > quit Mail.app, open Terminal > sqlite3 ~/Library/Mail/Envelope\ Index > at the prompt, type > vacuum subjects; > wait til the prompt returns and quit sqlite with ctrl-D > launch Mail.app > > It might be a good idea to make a backup of your Mail folder > *before* attempting this. > > > Regards > > Gregor > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From kremels at kreme.com Sun Mar 4 16:36:27 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sun Mar 4 16:36:52 2007 Subject: Speed up Mail.app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C2F08BD-2A6F-4960-BBE0-245C174FBF2C@kreme.com> On 4-Mar-2007, at 09:43, Robert La Ferla wrote: > Thank you!!! That fixed my problem even though the index after > vacuuming is the same (very large) size. I don't know if they are > planning to or not but Apple should turn on auto-vacuum for Leopard. You can do it yourself. cd ~/Library/Mail mv Envelope\ Index Backup sqlite3 Envelope\ Index "PRAGMA auto_vacuum=1;" sqlite3 Backup ".dump" | sqlite3 Envelope\ Index rm Backup there you go. -- There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don?t know what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president. From robertlaferla at comcast.net Sun Mar 4 16:57:37 2007 From: robertlaferla at comcast.net (Robert La Ferla) Date: Sun Mar 4 16:58:12 2007 Subject: Speed up Mail.app In-Reply-To: <9C2F08BD-2A6F-4960-BBE0-245C174FBF2C@kreme.com> References: <9C2F08BD-2A6F-4960-BBE0-245C174FBF2C@kreme.com> Message-ID: I wouldn't do that if I were you. The sqlite in Tiger is an old version (3.1.3) that has bugs w/auto-vacuum. Specifically, there are two autovacuum bugs that can corrupt your database. I upgraded my sqlite (fairly risky in itself) to the latest version so I could do it but I would not advise people to do it. Robert La Ferla OS X / Cocoa Consultant On Mar 4, 2007, at 7:36 PM, LuKreme wrote: > On 4-Mar-2007, at 09:43, Robert La Ferla wrote: >> Thank you!!! That fixed my problem even though the index after >> vacuuming is the same (very large) size. I don't know if they are >> planning to or not but Apple should turn on auto-vacuum for Leopard. > > You can do it yourself. > > > cd ~/Library/Mail > mv Envelope\ Index Backup > sqlite3 Envelope\ Index "PRAGMA auto_vacuum=1;" > sqlite3 Backup ".dump" | sqlite3 Envelope\ Index > rm Backup > > there you go. > > > -- > There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don?t > know what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to > be president. > > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From scott at cocoadoc.com Sun Mar 4 20:20:35 2007 From: scott at cocoadoc.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Sun Mar 4 20:20:50 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <43330A33-EFF5-486C-BF34-444B8D95C868@mac.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> <742E40DB-DEFE-49EB-826F-4F95B38DE4AC@cocoadoc.com> <43330A33-EFF5-486C-BF34-444B8D95C868@mac.com> Message-ID: On Mar 3, 2007, at 6:32 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: > > On 3 Mar 2007, at 22:59, Scott Anguish wrote: >> Yes, and the User folder lives on the data partition. >> >> it makes much,much sense if you do development. > > Oh, Scott, don't be such a fuddy-duddy. > > Development machines are for development... I can only assume that Matt is joking. Most hobby developers can't afford multiple systems. From mrhatken at mac.com Sun Mar 4 21:43:33 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Sun Mar 4 21:43:36 2007 Subject: Speed up Mail.app In-Reply-To: References: <9C2F08BD-2A6F-4960-BBE0-245C174FBF2C@kreme.com> Message-ID: <90D3C599-5F02-4697-B22D-DA00A9ADE740@mac.com> On 05/03/2007, at 9:57 AM, Robert La Ferla wrote: > I wouldn't do that if I were you. Yes, I agree. Bill B. from Apple (at least he was last time I looked) discusses why not to do it. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Mar 4 22:46:18 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Sun Mar 4 22:46:29 2007 Subject: pursuant partition thread In-Reply-To: <30044586-A53D-460B-A143-6A6A3ADC4C07@kreme.com> References: <8EAB83D0-6CFA-4D2A-B1BC-2F058ADE5354@mac.com> <30044586-A53D-460B-A143-6A6A3ADC4C07@kreme.com> Message-ID: <8FFD9A63-3633-45BA-AB5D-C6257054EA4B@objectwerks.com> On Mar 4, 2007, at 5:16 AM, LuKreme wrote: > On 3-Mar-2007, at 19:05, Ashley Aitken wrote: >> The reason being that if you boot the same Mac from a DVD or >> external drive that does not have the driver installed the OS will >> only see 128GB of any larger partition. >> >> Inevitably this would royally screw up the partition. So I think >> that's eminently professional advice and advice that I was willing >> to follow to reduce the risk of data loss. > > Well, maybe. I did once accidentally put a 160GB drive onto a > machine that only was capable of reading the first 128GB. I copied > files to and from it (Large 30GB+ files, iMovie packages and such) > and then moved it back to the machine that could read the full drive. > > No problem. > > YMMV and I wouldn't recommend it, but keep in mind, the machines we > are talking about in this thread are not 'older' machines. I put a 160GB drive in a machine that could only handle 128GB drives. It was a new drive and I figured if I just formatted it at 120-128GB it would be OK. Turned out to not be OK. Files got corrupted and it became a mess... Chad From pelorus at mac.com Mon Mar 5 00:13:27 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Mon Mar 5 00:13:38 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> <742E40DB-DEFE-49EB-826F-4F95B38DE4AC@cocoadoc.com> <43330A33-EFF5-486C-BF34-444B8D95C868@mac.com> Message-ID: <12C509ED-BF55-499C-B997-1572899C28E3@mac.com> On 5 Mar 2007, at 04:20, Scott Anguish wrote: > On Mar 3, 2007, at 6:32 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: >> >> Development machines are for development... > I can only assume that Matt is joking. > > Most hobby developers can't afford multiple systems. *pained look* In 1996 I bought a Black Performa 5400 for ?1899. I was a pauper student. Last year I bought an iMac intel and a MacBook Pro for the same price. Computers are more affordable now. It just depends how valuable your data is and whether you're trying to support a burgeoning tobacco obsession (I've a local guy in mind here). When 2 GB of flash storage is ?10, you'd be surprised how few people bother to even try to back up. The bottom line is that in the event of a serious problem, it won't matter if it's a partition or a folder. M From stevenhatfield at mac.com Mon Mar 5 04:33:08 2007 From: stevenhatfield at mac.com (Steven Hatfield) Date: Mon Mar 5 04:30:39 2007 Subject: [PSA] Joost sells email addresses Message-ID: <3F424B44-D268-4B1B-9C2F-049C5CAF1DC8@mac.com> Hello all, This is a PSA for everyone in the Mac community who might be thinking about signing up for the Joost service. Prepare to receive spam at the address that you give them. I signed up for their beta with an email alias, which was given out 1 time, just to them. Today I received a spam email to that address. Joost's privacy policy states very specifically that they will not do this. There is no doubt that they broke their promise and sold my email address. It was easy enough for me to just remove the alias, but I thought you might want to be aware of this before you give them an email address that you cannot simply disable. It also could mean that they sell more than just your email address, and for a company that will eventually have a lot of information about their subscribers (viewing history is a very personal thing, IMHO), this could be a very serious problem. Have a great day, Steven -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070305/873a72a0/attachment.html From apple at tisys.org Mon Mar 5 05:16:03 2007 From: apple at tisys.org (Nils Holland) Date: Mon Mar 5 05:16:10 2007 Subject: Sarbanes-Oxley Act Message-ID: Hi folks, well, it's old news I want to ask about in this message. In fact, the subject has probably been discussed to death already, however, unluckily I'm still not sure I understand it. So, the issue is this: You'll all know that in order to use the 802.11n feature of newer C2D- based Macs, you'll have to buy a piece of software which enables said feature. (You could, in theory, also buy the latest AirPort base station, but we'll leave that one out of the question for now.) The fact that you have to pay for the "enabler" is, according to Apple, something called the "Sarbanes-Oxley Act". This thing has something to do with accounting, and doesn't easily allow you to add a new feature to a product you've already sold (and booked as revenue). So far, so good. Probably an extremely stupid law, but still something that one can understand. BUT... Yeah, well, remember the 5G iPod? Last year, a *free* firmware update for that beast came along, adding a new feature, namely: Downloading and playing games. That happened although we had just learned that you cannot easily add a new feature to a product already sold. Hmmm. Now, what I don't understand and would very much like to understand: What's the difference between the 802.11n update and the new iPod firmware here? I can imagine multiple possibilities: 1) The iPod actually played games before, namely the few that came with it. So playing games on the thing is not a new feature. On the other hand, a Mac could do wireless Internet access before, so 11n is not really a new feature either. Can't imagine this to make sense. 2) The new feature in the iPod firmware alone doesn't do anything - only when you buy a game it starts to make sense. So, probably, the accounting stuff is "officially" happening at the point you buy a game in the iTS? 3) The problem with the new iPod firmware and the 802.11n update is basically the same, however, in case of the iPod firmware Apple decided to go though all the accounting hassles associated with giving the update away for free, because it's actually in their best interest to have as many iPod users use the new firmware, because these users would then all be potential "game buyers" and thus would mean revenue for Apple. On the other hand, giving the 802.11n update away for free would have meant only accounting hassles and no new source of revenue. Any ideas about this whole thing would be welcome! Greetings, Nils From pelorus at mac.com Mon Mar 5 05:21:50 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Mon Mar 5 05:22:01 2007 Subject: Sarbanes-Oxley Act In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5 Mar 2007, at 13:16, Nils Holland wrote: > Any ideas about this whole thing would be welcome! Bottom line: Apple are being arseholes about it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070305/94f55526/attachment.html From jearle at gmail.com Mon Mar 5 05:32:29 2007 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Mon Mar 5 05:32:32 2007 Subject: Sarbanes-Oxley Act In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5bbc0cd60703050532k51e5a056udbef5f51336ae397@mail.gmail.com> On 3/5/07, Matt Johnston wrote: > Apple are being arseholes about it. ... because it's their ball and they can take it home. -- Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK jearle@gmail.com :: http://www.23x.net The Spodcast :: http://spodcast.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070305/6eca536a/attachment.html From apple at tisys.org Mon Mar 5 05:33:03 2007 From: apple at tisys.org (Nils Holland) Date: Mon Mar 5 05:33:08 2007 Subject: Sarbanes-Oxley Act In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <117BCA44-FE2A-4369-B48E-499A7F7EB851@tisys.org> On 05.03.2007, at 14:21, Matt Johnston wrote: > Bottom line: > > Apple are being arseholes about it. While not one of my three possibilities, this sounds entirely plausible if I don't stumble about another explanation that tells me why one time a certain thing is possible, and another time, under basically identical circumstances, it's not. ;-) Greetings, Nils From mjwise at kapu.net Mon Mar 5 06:01:10 2007 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Mon Mar 5 06:01:20 2007 Subject: Sarbanes-Oxley Act In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D804A4B-143E-450A-8B88-F8B2B54F29DD@kapu.net> On Mar 5, 2007, at 3:21 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > On 5 Mar 2007, at 13:16, Nils Holland wrote: > >> Any ideas about this whole thing would be welcome! > > Bottom line: > > Apple are being arseholes about it. I suspect that in the first instance, the Government were anal fissures about it, and so in the second instance, they forced Apple to be. Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License and Usenet Registration handy..." From googurl at gmail.com Mon Mar 5 06:21:46 2007 From: googurl at gmail.com (Mary H.) Date: Mon Mar 5 06:22:37 2007 Subject: [PSA] Joost sells email addresses In-Reply-To: <3F424B44-D268-4B1B-9C2F-049C5CAF1DC8@mac.com> References: <3F424B44-D268-4B1B-9C2F-049C5CAF1DC8@mac.com> Message-ID: At 7:33 AM -0500 3/5/07, Steven Hatfield wrote: >[...] I signed up for their beta with an email alias, which was >given out 1 time, just to them. Today I received a spam email to >that address. >Joost's privacy policy states >very specifically that they will not do this. There is no doubt >that they broke their promise and sold my email address. I don't think you can be certain that Joost sold your address. The spam could have been the result of Directory Harvest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directory_Harvest_Attack M From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Mar 5 08:52:36 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Mon Mar 5 08:52:58 2007 Subject: [PSA] Joost sells email addresses In-Reply-To: References: <3F424B44-D268-4B1B-9C2F-049C5CAF1DC8@mac.com> Message-ID: <45EC4AD4.10604@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Mary H. wrote: > I don't think you can be certain that Joost sold your address. The spam > could have been the result of Directory Harvest. it's hard to infer that from the little Steven told us, but it is a reminder that when creating unique aliases for email signups, make them really unique -- i often add the date to mine; i've caught a few surprising miscreants over the years, most recently Rodale press From kremels at kreme.com Mon Mar 5 09:56:57 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Mon Mar 5 09:57:19 2007 Subject: Joost sells email addresses In-Reply-To: <3F424B44-D268-4B1B-9C2F-049C5CAF1DC8@mac.com> References: <3F424B44-D268-4B1B-9C2F-049C5CAF1DC8@mac.com> Message-ID: <31641EF1-4473-4A35-87C0-0BE170BFC58A@kreme.com> On 5-Mar-2007, at 05:33, Steven Hatfield wrote: > I signed up for their beta with an email alias, which was given out > 1 time, just to them. Today I received a spam email to that address. Er... yeah, and so? I can create an email alias, never give it out to anyone or use it for anything and get spam on it, usually within a week. What was the alias, how unique was it versus how 'guessable'. -- Rincewind had always been happy to think of himself as a racist. The One Hundred Meters, the Mile, the Marathon -- he'd run them all. From kremels at kreme.com Mon Mar 5 10:01:58 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Mon Mar 5 10:02:17 2007 Subject: Sarbanes-Oxley Act In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57C6A5C4-A21C-4C0F-9406-EB4B10292A94@kreme.com> On 5-Mar-2007, at 06:16, Nils Holland wrote: > 2) The new feature in the iPod firmware alone doesn't do anything - > only when you buy a game it starts to make sense. So, probably, the > accounting stuff is "officially" happening at the point you buy a > game in the iTS? I'm sure this is enough to avoid any accounting snafus. -- Your letters they all say that you're beside me now. Then why do I feel alone? I'm standing on a ledge and your fine spider web is fastening my ankle to a stone. From kremels at kreme.com Mon Mar 5 10:09:33 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Mon Mar 5 10:09:48 2007 Subject: More mail.app issues Message-ID: <2B83C9B6-43E1-48CA-B839-1C88641676A6@kreme.com> > The message from LuKreme concerning ?Re: > Parallels? has not been downloaded from the server. You need to > take this account online in order to download it. This continues to show up on some messages from about 27-Feb to 3- Mar. Obviously my account is online, and has been. The messages appear on the server, and no amount of Synchronize this account seems to help. I can try 'rebuild' but there are quite literally hundreds of mailboxes on the IMAP server. -- The older you get the more you need the people you knew when you were young. From kremels at kreme.com Mon Mar 5 10:20:40 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Mon Mar 5 10:20:55 2007 Subject: More mail.app issues In-Reply-To: <2B83C9B6-43E1-48CA-B839-1C88641676A6@kreme.com> References: <2B83C9B6-43E1-48CA-B839-1C88641676A6@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 5-Mar-2007, at 11:09, LuKreme wrote: > I can try 'rebuild' but there are quite literally hundreds of > mailboxes on the IMAP server. OK, even weirder, if I go into the actual mailbox instead of the unread mail, the messages are all there complete. SO this seems to be another in the long list of smart mailbox errors. -- [The PSP] could have voice recognition too, so when you go "nyuuurrrrrrrr-uuuuuurrrrrrrrrrr-uuuuuuurrrrrrrrr" you go faster, and when you go "Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii" you stop From chad at objectwerks.com Mon Mar 5 10:22:01 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Mon Mar 5 10:22:05 2007 Subject: Sarbanes-Oxley Act In-Reply-To: <57C6A5C4-A21C-4C0F-9406-EB4B10292A94@kreme.com> References: <57C6A5C4-A21C-4C0F-9406-EB4B10292A94@kreme.com> Message-ID: <1044C9FA-1F78-431E-AC5B-85D6F942039A@objectwerks.com> On Mar 5, 2007, at 11:01 AM, LuKreme wrote: > On 5-Mar-2007, at 06:16, Nils Holland wrote: >> 2) The new feature in the iPod firmware alone doesn't do anything >> - only when you buy a game it starts to make sense. So, probably, >> the accounting stuff is "officially" happening at the point you >> buy a game in the iTS? > > I'm sure this is enough to avoid any accounting snafus. Another thing may be SW vs HW. On the 802.11n you are "activating" new hardware capability while the iPod thing is a SW only extension of a feature that already existed. Chad From bentley at crenelle.com Mon Mar 5 11:28:37 2007 From: bentley at crenelle.com (Michael Brian Bentley) Date: Mon Mar 5 11:29:30 2007 Subject: [PSA] Joost sells email addresses In-Reply-To: References: <3F424B44-D268-4B1B-9C2F-049C5CAF1DC8@mac.com> Message-ID: >I don't think you can be certain that Joost sold your address. The >spam could have been the result of Directory Harvest. > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directory_Harvest_Attack > > M I think this is still an attack based on the use of a dictionary of likely or possible address names. If you use an unlikely name, something that otherwise looks like an arcane password, such as M2rg4tr0yd_ (at)Ivorytower(dot)com, the dictionary is unlikely to contain that name--unless the name slips into spammer consciousness by using it in the open on Usenet, or by sending it to a company that claims to not sell contact information... making the name as arcane as possible for use in one specific, private situation is going to make it difficult to describe how a spammer got hold of it by any way other than the recipient selling it. Because some enterprising Joost employee may be taking liberties with incoming addresses in a fashion counter to expressed Joost policy, I'd try to contact Joost and complain about it. The beauty of one-shot names is that they can be turned off instantly. -Mike From bentley at crenelle.com Mon Mar 5 11:41:47 2007 From: bentley at crenelle.com (Michael Brian Bentley) Date: Mon Mar 5 11:42:17 2007 Subject: Parallels and a Modem... In-Reply-To: <59EFA0AC-9C30-48C5-94FD-66108199DCBF@mac.com> References: <429FFEA7-7A06-4010-925C-3BF7C67AAA4C@mac.com> <45E9E0F2.5080808@mninter.net> <59EFA0AC-9C30-48C5-94FD-66108199DCBF@mac.com> Message-ID: >>The release version (3186) is at: >> >> >>mmalc Thanks for this. This version seems faster than rc3, but vista under parallels seems to require a bit of cpu even if doing nothing. If I check Devices->USB->USB Mouse in Parallels' menu bar, my USB Logitech optical mouse stops working, tho the MBP's trackpad continues to work. Unchecking the menu item causes the mouse to start working again. Just the opposite of what I'd expect. Anything that involves Windows can't surprise me with stuff like this. -Mike From steven at lacasacontenta.net Mon Mar 5 12:29:52 2007 From: steven at lacasacontenta.net (Steven Hatfield) Date: Mon Mar 5 12:27:26 2007 Subject: [PSA] Joost sells email addresses In-Reply-To: References: <3F424B44-D268-4B1B-9C2F-049C5CAF1DC8@mac.com> Message-ID: The email alias that I used was "joost-srh@knightswood.net". This isn't exactly a dictionary attack friendly name, as it is unlikely to have been used anywhere else in the world or exist as an option to try against a mail server. I entered into their beta test signup page, to be notified when they would like me to help them beta test. This was some time ago, and I had never heard from (or really thought of them) again, until I received an email this morning from a spammer in Malaysia (myjaring.my). I would never accuse a company of selling an email address unless I knew that they had sold it, or it was "more likely than not" that they had sold it. I sent the company's "privacy@joost.com" account a note this morning, and have not heard anything back yet. To the person who said "So what" about receiving a spam email: I do get spam, it is inevitable. I use aliases to curb the amount of spam that I do get. There is a bigger issue here. When a company publicly states that they do not sell your email address, and then sells it, that calls into suspicion the character of the company. I gave Joost the benefit of the doubt, because their privacy policy clearly states that they hold your personal data sacred. It turns out that they do not. On top of that, they are going to release a service on the Internet that allows people to watch TV shows (or movies or whatever video content), and will have the ability to track large amounts of data on a vast number of people. If they can't keep email addresses secret, what makes you think they'll keep your viewing history secret? It is best to know who the "good" companies are, rather than lose what computer using privacy you have left. I just wanted to help some fellow Mac users out of receiving even *more* spam than they already do, and alert them that "here be dragons" on the spot on the Internet map where Joost exists. Peace. -Steven On Mar 5, 2007, at 2:28 PM, Michael Brian Bentley wrote: >> I don't think you can be certain that Joost sold your address. The >> spam could have been the result of Directory Harvest. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directory_Harvest_Attack >> >> M > > I think this is still an attack based on the use of a dictionary of > likely or possible address names. If you use an unlikely name, > something that otherwise looks like an arcane password, such as > M2rg4tr0yd_ (at)Ivorytower(dot)com, the dictionary is unlikely to > contain that name--unless the name slips into spammer consciousness > by using it in the open on Usenet, or by sending it to a company > that claims to not sell contact information... making the name as > arcane as possible for use in one specific, private situation is > going to make it difficult to describe how a spammer got hold of it > by any way other than the recipient selling it. > > Because some enterprising Joost employee may be taking liberties > with incoming addresses in a fashion counter to expressed Joost > policy, I'd try to contact Joost and complain about it. The beauty > of one-shot names is that they can be turned off instantly. > > -Mike > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From mmalc_lists at mac.com Mon Mar 5 12:56:06 2007 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalc crawford) Date: Mon Mar 5 12:56:34 2007 Subject: Parallels In-Reply-To: <12C509ED-BF55-499C-B997-1572899C28E3@mac.com> References: <2B70C7E4-859E-4D8E-A190-EFAC52712CF1@mac.com> <0AC3E39D-1246-4739-A62F-B3352AAA3CB7@mac.com> <742E40DB-DEFE-49EB-826F-4F95B38DE4AC@cocoadoc.com> <43330A33-EFF5-486C-BF34-444B8D95C868@mac.com> <12C509ED-BF55-499C-B997-1572899C28E3@mac.com> Message-ID: On Mar 5, 2007, at 12:13 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: >> Most hobby developers can't afford multiple systems. > > *pained look* > In 1996 I bought a Black Performa 5400 for ?1899. I was a pauper > student. > Last year I bought an iMac intel and a MacBook Pro for the same > price. Computers are more affordable now. It just depends how > valuable your data is and whether you're trying to support a > burgeoning tobacco obsession (I've a local guy in mind here). When 2 > GB of flash storage is ?10, you'd be surprised how few people bother > to even try to back up. > The bottom line is that in the event of a serious problem, it won't > matter if it's a partition or a folder. > The issue is not necessarily cost or "serious problems". On my laptop I have four partitions: one for the current public OS release, one for the most recent OS build, one for the best recent OS build, and one data partition accessed by all three of the others. I could easily imagine a similar setup for other developers (with different specifics and perhaps fewer -- or even more -- partitions). This setup enables *me* to be considerably more productive than would otherwise be the case. I'm not in any way suggesting this is typical, but I do know of others who adopt the same approach. There is clearly a spectrum of use cases, with the majority of users in the "one partition will do fine, thanks" band -- but it's certainly also true that there are circumstances (however limited in number) in which multiple partitions are of significant benefit. mmalc From jearle at gmail.com Tue Mar 6 01:50:06 2007 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Tue Mar 6 01:50:12 2007 Subject: [PSA] Joost sells email addresses In-Reply-To: References: <3F424B44-D268-4B1B-9C2F-049C5CAF1DC8@mac.com> Message-ID: <5bbc0cd60703060150y2b9cd5dbh101302f061b53a1b@mail.gmail.com> On 3/5/07, Steven Hatfield wrote: > There is a bigger issue here. When a company > publicly states that they do not sell your email address, and then > sells it, that calls into suspicion the character of the company. I agree. I am grateful you brought this up. I have created a joost email address. The moment I get spam to it I'll tell you. -- Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK jearle@gmail.com :: http://www.23x.net The Spodcast :: http://spodcast.org From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Mar 6 14:47:43 2007 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz_Blanco?=) Date: Tue Mar 6 14:48:00 2007 Subject: The iPhone is doomed! Doomed I tell you! In-Reply-To: <5bbc0cd60703060150y2b9cd5dbh101302f061b53a1b@mail.gmail.com> References: <3F424B44-D268-4B1B-9C2F-049C5CAF1DC8@mac.com> <5bbc0cd60703060150y2b9cd5dbh101302f061b53a1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3ED8BD9F-3ECA-4D08-8ED7-008297401F65@apinet.es> Hello beautiful people, Excuse the promo, but looks like you will be able to read my ramblings on Gizmodo US from now on :-) I've posted a few articles -some of them even Fake Steve Jobs read them!- but for a taste, I just thought some of you will like this (and it may ignite some debate here as well): http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/laura-ocaa-spells-iphones-doom- prefers-prada-boots-to-lg-prada-241922.php Some will specially love the pics. And yes, they are of a hot girl, but no nudies, Roger. You had enough of those, anyway. Oh, and in case anyone likes it and wants to digg it, please feel _very_ free to do it. :-) http://digg.com/apple/iPhone_s_doomed_according_to_LG_Prada_experience Thanks! j. From kcall at mac.com Wed Mar 7 23:21:15 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Wed Mar 7 23:21:16 2007 Subject: Amazon Launches Video Download Service On TiVo - Technology News by InformationWeek Message-ID: <7EEED154-7D1D-4434-8E47-DB276BB9B892@mac.com> Is there a Mac OS X client for TiVO ? Amazon.com on Wednesday made its video download service available on all broadband-ready TiVo boxes, opening a channel for taking movies and TV shows from the Web to the big screen in people's living rooms. From macsrwe at macsrwe.com Fri Mar 9 18:41:43 2007 From: macsrwe at macsrwe.com (Macs R We) Date: Fri Mar 9 19:03:14 2007 Subject: Junk does what, exactly? Message-ID: <332BCD5C-C131-4963-93D0-3DCBBFDA2A28@macsrwe.com> I can't find any good reference as to exactly what effect the "Junk" button has in Apple Mail. Sure, it moves a message to the junk mailbox, that much is clear -- but what gets "learned" in terms of future mail? Does it become more wary about messages with similar contents? Does it give the sender a demerit? Neither, both, something else? If so, how many demerits put all of that sender's messages in the Junk bin? And how can you see what Mail's plans are for future messages? "Learning" based rules don't appear in the Rules panel. For example, don't expect to find a rule saying, "It the contents contain Viagra, and the contents contain shipping, it's junk mail," unless you put it there yourself. In fact, a number of online references seem to imply that once you take Mail out of "learning" mode, the Junk button no longer causes anything to be learned. I never thought that was the case, but I've just realized that I can't point to any authoritative source that says otherwise. Here's my motivation: today, a new client complained to me that once upon a time she "junked" a single chain-letter message from a friend, and now she regrets it, because all that friend's messages are going into the Junk mailbox. (That struck me as odd, because my experience has been that you have to hammer a sender multiple times before he is effectively blacklisted, if ever -- usually I get tired and just write a rule.) She couldn't exhibit any proof, since her Junk mailbox was empty. She wanted me to do something specific to undo what she had done. As I remarked previously, it's not like there's some file I can go to and remove the line that says "Junk all mail from Hermione." So I told her next time a message of Hermione's got junked, she should go into the Junk mailbox and un-Junk it -- on the theory that whatever weak censure a single Junk button may have caused, a single un-Junk button should correct. Then she said, "I can't tell when there are things in there, and they don't stay in there long." Now first off, I know for a fact that the unread message count shows up right next to the Junk mailbox. Secondly, I can find no preference setting that would automatically empty the Junk mailbox, so I don't think that even happens. So at this point, we're touring Whine Country, which is a different and non-technical problem... Anyway, it struck me after this encounter that Mail's claims of "learning" are vague and unsatisfying, in terms of exactly WHAT it thinks it is learning, how often it has to "learn" something before it "sticks," and what you can do to modify what it has learned. I could find nothing in a Google search other than the usual vague promises that "Mail learns stuff when you hit the button." A colleague at AMUG suggested this list as a place that the actual developers and other gurus might have pointers to more specific references. I appreciate whatever you can offer. -- Macs R We -- Personal Macintosh Service and Support in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas. http://macsrwe.com From kremels at kreme.com Fri Mar 9 23:03:31 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Fri Mar 9 23:03:44 2007 Subject: Junk does what, exactly? In-Reply-To: <332BCD5C-C131-4963-93D0-3DCBBFDA2A28@macsrwe.com> References: <332BCD5C-C131-4963-93D0-3DCBBFDA2A28@macsrwe.com> Message-ID: <9CD08381-3DCD-4517-AC6D-349AAA9528E2@kreme.com> On 9-Mar-2007, at 19:41, Macs R We wrote: > I can't find any good reference as to exactly what effect the > "Junk" button has in Apple Mail. > > Sure, it moves a message to the junk mailbox, that much is clear -- > but what gets "learned" in terms of future mail? Apple's Junk mail filtering uses Baysian filters, so a message is submitted to bayes and this improves the checking of future messages. > Does it become more wary about messages with similar contents? Simplistically, yes. > Does it give the sender a demerit? Neither, both, something > else? If so, how many demerits put all of that sender's messages > in the Junk bin? It doesn't work that ways. Bayes looks at everything and comes up with a probability a message is junk, based on the other messages you've marked and, in this case, Apple's supplied starting database. > And how can you see what Mail's plans are for future messages? > "Learning" based rules don't appear in the Rules panel. For > example, don't expect to find a rule saying, "It the contents > contain Viagra, and the contents contain shipping, it's junk mail," > unless you put it there yourself. That's not how bayes works. is a good starting point, also I think the SpamAssassin wiki has some writing on Bayes filtering. > In fact, a number of online references seem to imply that once you > take Mail out of "learning" mode, the Junk button no longer causes > anything to be learned. I never thought that was the case, but > I've just realized that I can't point to any authoritative source > that says otherwise. There's little specific information on the exact mechanisms. I've not looked into it much because I use SpamAssassin on my server to deal with Spam. The only Junk mail.app deals with is the account that is wide-open (by design). > > Here's my motivation: today, a new client complained to me that > once upon a time she "junked" a single chain-letter message from a > friend, and now she regrets it, because all that friend's messages > are going into the Junk mailbox. (That struck me as odd, because > my experience has been that you have to hammer a sender multiple > times before he is effectively blacklisted, if ever -- usually I > get tired and just write a rule.) She couldn't exhibit any proof, > since her Junk mailbox was empty. She wanted me to do something > specific to undo what she had done. As I remarked previously, it's > not like there's some file I can go to and remove the line that > says "Junk all mail from Hermione." Marking other messages as not spam would balance out > So I told her next time a message of Hermione's got junked, she > should go into the Junk mailbox and un-Junk it -- on the theory > that whatever weak censure a single Junk button may have caused, a > single un-Junk button should correct. Then she said, "I can't tell > when there are things in there, and they don't stay in there > long." Now first off, I know for a fact that the unread message > count shows up right next to the Junk mailbox. Secondly, I can > find no preference setting that would automatically empty the Junk > mailbox, so I don't think that even happens. Sure, Preferences -> Accounts -> Mailbox Behaviors -> Junk -> Delete junk messages when: (Never|One Day Old| One Week Old| One Month Old| Quitting Mail) > Anyway, it struck me after this encounter that Mail's claims of > "learning" are vague and unsatisfying, in terms of exactly WHAT it > thinks it is learning, how often it has to "learn" something before > it "sticks," and what you can do to modify what it has learned. I > could find nothing in a Google search other than the usual vague > promises that "Mail learns stuff when you hit the button." Mail Help -> Discover Mail -> Dealing with junk email-> Too much of my legitimate email is getting marked as junk > Train Mail that the messages are legitimate. Whenever you receive > messages that have been incorrectly marked as junk, select them and > click Not Junk in the toolbar or choose Message > Mark > As Not > Junk Mail. Over time, Mail will learn the messages are not junk. > Add the senders to your Address Book. To do so, click the arrow in > a Smart Address and choose "Add to Address Book" from the pop-up > menu. Or select the message and choose Message > "Add Sender to > Address Book". > Review your Mail Preferences for junk mail, as well as any rules > you might have created to handle junk mail, and make changes as > necessary. For the record, unless she messed up her settings, no message from anyone in your address book OR your previous recipients should be marked as junk. Preferences -> Junk Mail The following types of messages are exempt from junk mail filtering: [x] Sender of the message is in my Address Book [x] Sender of the message is in my Previous Recipients [ ] Message is addressed to my full name (those are my settings) -- Rid yourself of doubt -- or should you? -George Carlin From kremels at kreme.com Sat Mar 10 02:30:36 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat Mar 10 02:30:53 2007 Subject: Junk does what, exactly? In-Reply-To: <9CD08381-3DCD-4517-AC6D-349AAA9528E2@kreme.com> References: <332BCD5C-C131-4963-93D0-3DCBBFDA2A28@macsrwe.com> <9CD08381-3DCD-4517-AC6D-349AAA9528E2@kreme.com> Message-ID: <7545F7AE-EE46-4371-AB1E-ABA5840DCC88@kreme.com> On 10-Mar-2007, at 00:03, LuKreme wrote: > On 9-Mar-2007, at 19:41, Macs R We wrote: >> I never thought that was the case, but I've just realized that I >> can't point to any authoritative source that says otherwise. Hate to reply t myself, but there is this in the help: Topic: Changing the junk mail filter > Mail continues to update its junk mail database when you mark > messages as junk or not junk, regardless of whether you're > currently using the database in your filter. To reset the junk mail > database to its original information, and remove everything it > learned from you in training, click Reset. So, there it is straight from the horses mouth, mail DOES update the junk filter regardless of 1) the training setting and 2) if you are using the junk mail filters or not. -- "You can think and you can fight, but the world's always movin', and if you wanna stay ahead you gotta dance." From mmalc_lists at mac.com Sat Mar 10 06:11:35 2007 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalc crawford) Date: Sat Mar 10 06:11:57 2007 Subject: Junk does what, exactly? In-Reply-To: <9CD08381-3DCD-4517-AC6D-349AAA9528E2@kreme.com> References: <332BCD5C-C131-4963-93D0-3DCBBFDA2A28@macsrwe.com> <9CD08381-3DCD-4517-AC6D-349AAA9528E2@kreme.com> Message-ID: On Mar 9, 2007, at 11:03 PM, LuKreme wrote: > Apple's Junk mail filtering uses Baysian filters > Actually it uses latent semantic analysis (, ). mmalc From mark at bbprojects.net Sat Mar 10 11:17:51 2007 From: mark at bbprojects.net (Mark Smith) Date: Sat Mar 10 11:18:28 2007 Subject: Junk does what, exactly? In-Reply-To: References: <332BCD5C-C131-4963-93D0-3DCBBFDA2A28@macsrwe.com> <9CD08381-3DCD-4517-AC6D-349AAA9528E2@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 10 Mar 2007, at 15:11, mmalc crawford wrote: > On Mar 9, 2007, at 11:03 PM, LuKreme wrote: > >> Apple's Junk mail filtering uses Baysian filters >> > Actually it uses latent semantic analysis ( lae/macosx/jaguar/mail.html>, how-apple-mails-junk-filter-is-not-like-the-others/>). I remember reading that article when it came out and thinking that it seemed robust and that Mail's junk filtering ought to be at least up with the best. However, in repeated lengthy experiments, SpamSieve (used in Mail with Mail's own filtering turned off) beats it hands down. It gets very good much faster than Mail (after about 500 messages SpamSieve is consistently above 98% for identifying spams (Mail is around 90-95%) and from this point SpamSieve has consistently fewer false positives (far less than 1 in 1,000 compared to Mail's approximately 1 in 500). SpamSieve is so good, that I have completely abandoned maintaining SpamAssassin on the server side. mark. From kcall at mac.com Sun Mar 11 13:26:06 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sun Mar 11 13:26:08 2007 Subject: searching shared drive - AE/n Message-ID: Wondering if anyone else on this list has bought the AE/n and has shared out a LaCie drive and is able to search the drive with the Finder (searches fine using CLI)? Also, want to mention that while I switched from the Belkin USB hub to an Iogear hub, the drive still falls off the network. Not as frequently as with the Belkin, but I still have to restart the AE/n regularly in order to bring the drive back online. Would be valuable to hear if this is something due to the LaCie or if it's something relating to the AE/n itself. A friend was asking me if he should buy the new AE/n and I had to tell him I'm having search and drive-availability issues. I'm hoping someone on this list can assure me that it's unique to my setup. Thanks, Kevin Callahan http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html Contact Congress: http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070311/802e72f6/attachment.html From kcall at mac.com Sun Mar 11 13:39:49 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sun Mar 11 13:39:48 2007 Subject: searching shared drive - AE/n In-Reply-To: <20014624-3C60-4888-9DA8-F2F33C48A9D6@mac.com> References: <20014624-3C60-4888-9DA8-F2F33C48A9D6@mac.com> Message-ID: <4EBA6385-F08F-4FFB-A5C0-D2108EF9161E@mac.com> On Mar 11, 2007, at 1:38 PM, Rik Ahlberg wrote: > I have a LaCie 160 GB drive that I share using my new Airport > Extreme (802.11n). It works as expected, and I can search fine from > Finder window. I haven't experienced any of the problems you or > others have described. > > Rik are you plugged in directly, via a hub? do you use password protection on the drive itself, or have you set up accounts? > > On Mar 11, 2007, at 4:26 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> Wondering if anyone else on this list has bought the AE/n and has >> shared out a LaCie drive and is able to search the drive with the >> Finder (searches fine using CLI)? >> >> Also, want to mention that while I switched from the Belkin USB >> hub to an Iogear hub, the drive still falls off the network. Not >> as frequently as with the Belkin, but I still have to restart the >> AE/n regularly in order to bring the drive back online. Would be >> valuable to hear if this is something due to the LaCie or if it's >> something relating to the AE/n itself. >> >> A friend was asking me if he should buy the new AE/n and I had to >> tell him I'm having search and drive-availability issues. I'm >> hoping someone on this list can assure me that it's unique to my >> setup. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Kevin Callahan >> http://www.kevincallahan.org/ >> http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html >> >> Contact Congress: http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > Kevin Callahan http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html Contact Congress: http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070311/21aeab66/attachment.html From kcall at mac.com Sun Mar 11 13:48:41 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sun Mar 11 13:48:40 2007 Subject: searching shared drive - AE/n In-Reply-To: <4EBA6385-F08F-4FFB-A5C0-D2108EF9161E@mac.com> References: <20014624-3C60-4888-9DA8-F2F33C48A9D6@mac.com> <4EBA6385-F08F-4FFB-A5C0-D2108EF9161E@mac.com> Message-ID: <35F87143-C8FF-4D8F-B8F7-B4FF26EC1B2C@mac.com> On Mar 11, 2007, at 1:39 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > On Mar 11, 2007, at 1:38 PM, Rik Ahlberg wrote: > >> I have a LaCie 160 GB drive that I share using my new Airport >> Extreme (802.11n). It works as expected, and I can search fine >> from Finder window. I haven't experienced any of the problems you >> or others have described. >> >> Rik > > are you plugged in directly, via a hub? do you use password > protection on the drive itself, or have you set up accounts? quite a few posts here on subject: i guess others are seeing the "unmount" problem > > >> >> On Mar 11, 2007, at 4:26 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: >> >>> Wondering if anyone else on this list has bought the AE/n and >>> has shared out a LaCie drive and is able to search the drive with >>> the Finder (searches fine using CLI)? >>> >>> Also, want to mention that while I switched from the Belkin USB >>> hub to an Iogear hub, the drive still falls off the network. >>> Not as frequently as with the Belkin, but I still have to restart >>> the AE/n regularly in order to bring the drive back online. >>> Would be valuable to hear if this is something due to the LaCie >>> or if it's something relating to the AE/n itself. >>> >>> A friend was asking me if he should buy the new AE/n and I had to >>> tell him I'm having search and drive-availability issues. I'm >>> hoping someone on this list can assure me that it's unique to my >>> setup. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Kevin Callahan >>> http://www.kevincallahan.org/ >>> http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html >>> >>> Contact Congress: http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >> > > Kevin Callahan > http://www.kevincallahan.org/ > http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html > > Contact Congress: http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk Kevin Callahan http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html Contact Congress: http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070311/f1557af2/attachment.html From kcall at mac.com Sun Mar 11 17:23:33 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sun Mar 11 17:23:42 2007 Subject: searching shared drive - AE/n In-Reply-To: <4EBA6385-F08F-4FFB-A5C0-D2108EF9161E@mac.com> References: <20014624-3C60-4888-9DA8-F2F33C48A9D6@mac.com> <4EBA6385-F08F-4FFB-A5C0-D2108EF9161E@mac.com> Message-ID: <288A19CA-691E-4374-965C-E7C53E332D6C@mac.com> On Mar 11, 2007, at 1:39 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> >> On Mar 11, 2007, at 4:26 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: >> >>> Wondering if anyone else on this list has bought the AE/n and >>> has shared out a LaCie drive and is able to search the drive with >>> the Finder (searches fine using CLI)? >>> >>> Also, want to mention that while I switched from the Belkin USB >>> hub to an Iogear hub, the drive still falls off the network. >>> Not as frequently as with the Belkin, but I still have to restart >>> the AE/n regularly in order to bring the drive back online. >>> Would be valuable to hear if this is something due to the LaCie >>> or if it's something relating to the AE/n itself. >>> >>> A friend was asking me if he should buy