From pelorus at mac.com Fri Jun 1 00:09:19 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Fri Jun 1 00:09:32 2007 Subject: cool multi-touch stuff ! In-Reply-To: <5D841475-266B-4442-A94A-FE4BF59CA3CC@mac.com> References: <2D3813BE-9768-4682-891A-F5A80A0FAA9B@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <80C0C8FA-861F-4D7A-9EF6-4D36A120359D@mac.com> <2459264A-78DC-49A4-8E94-5D83E73ADD7E@mac.com> <5D841475-266B-4442-A94A-FE4BF59CA3CC@mac.com> Message-ID: On 1 Jun 2007, at 01:54, Ashley Aitken wrote: > Interestingly, as reported elsewhere, the Microsoft Surface doesn't > use touch-screen technology but instead many (5) infrared cameras > under the screen. And infrared cameras placed around the room. From kremels at kreme.com Fri Jun 1 00:21:07 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Fri Jun 1 00:21:40 2007 Subject: cool multi-touch stuff ! In-Reply-To: References: <2D3813BE-9768-4682-891A-F5A80A0FAA9B@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <80C0C8FA-861F-4D7A-9EF6-4D36A120359D@mac.com> <2459264A-78DC-49A4-8E94-5D83E73ADD7E@mac.com> <5D841475-266B-4442-A94A-FE4BF59CA3CC@mac.com> <4AD530FB-2CDA-4ED9-8F89-59312F51F719@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <6A82C739-5465-4B0C-849E-B645D59A46EA@kreme.com> Message-ID: <114D9FC3-CBBC-4FD9-B1BA-8582BD8C9600@kreme.com> On 31-May-2007, at 22:59, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > On 1 juin 07, at 13:43, LuKreme wrote: >> On 31-May-2007, at 19:09, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: >>> On 1 juin 07, at 09:54, Ashley Aitken wrote: >>>> Interestingly, as reported elsewhere, the Microsoft Surface >>>> doesn't use touch-screen technology but instead many (5) >>>> infrared cameras under the screen. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure if that will scale well to large whiteboards. >>> >>> Because the purpose is different. Using cameras (in a sort of 3d >>> internal rendering) allows for recognizing object that are put on >>> the table. Combining that to multitouch technology (2d mostly) >>> allows for new combinations. At least that is my understanding. >> >> I can't imagine that even five cameras can provide the fine touch >> control of a touchscreen. > > Two cameras are enough to offer a 3d perception of the object put > on the 2d glass surface. Object recognition processes do the rest. > And that says nothing about what can be added by the touchscreen > functions. I am not talking about OBJECTS, I said, "I can't imagine that even five cameras can provide the fine touch control of a touchscreen". As in, TOUCHING the surface with your FINGERS and CONTROLLING what is happening. -- "There will always be women in rubber flirting with me." From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Fri Jun 1 02:42:29 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Fri Jun 1 02:42:37 2007 Subject: cool multi-touch stuff ! In-Reply-To: <114D9FC3-CBBC-4FD9-B1BA-8582BD8C9600@kreme.com> References: <2D3813BE-9768-4682-891A-F5A80A0FAA9B@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <80C0C8FA-861F-4D7A-9EF6-4D36A120359D@mac.com> <2459264A-78DC-49A4-8E94-5D83E73ADD7E@mac.com> <5D841475-266B-4442-A94A-FE4BF59CA3CC@mac.com> <4AD530FB-2CDA-4ED9-8F89-59312F51F719@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <6A82C739-5465-4B0C-849E-B645D59A46EA@kreme.com> <114D9FC3-CBBC-4FD9-B1BA-8582BD8C9600@kreme.com> Message-ID: <3A59C9CA-C04C-49F4-8DA5-6662C51D58C0@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> On 1 juin 07, at 16:21, LuKreme wrote: >> Two cameras are enough to offer a 3d perception of the object put >> on the 2d glass surface. Object recognition processes do the rest. >> And that says nothing about what can be added by the touchscreen >> functions. > > I am not talking about OBJECTS, I said, "I can't imagine that even > five cameras can provide the fine touch control of a touchscreen". > > As in, TOUCHING the surface with your FINGERS and CONTROLLING what > is happening. Thank you for the emphasis. That was pretty clear from the beginning that the cameras had _nothing_ to do whatsoever with touching. Except for your nerve maybe. ??? JC From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Fri Jun 1 06:18:45 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Fri Jun 1 06:18:53 2007 Subject: cool multi-touch stuff ! In-Reply-To: <114D9FC3-CBBC-4FD9-B1BA-8582BD8C9600@kreme.com> References: <2D3813BE-9768-4682-891A-F5A80A0FAA9B@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <80C0C8FA-861F-4D7A-9EF6-4D36A120359D@mac.com> <2459264A-78DC-49A4-8E94-5D83E73ADD7E@mac.com> <5D841475-266B-4442-A94A-FE4BF59CA3CC@mac.com> <4AD530FB-2CDA-4ED9-8F89-59312F51F719@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <6A82C739-5465-4B0C-849E-B645D59A46EA@kreme.com> <114D9FC3-CBBC-4FD9-B1BA-8582BD8C9600@kreme.com> Message-ID: Ok. I eventually made it to the Ars Technica paper... Now if you had made that clear from the beginning... http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070530-what-lurks-below- microsofts-surface-a-qa-with-microsoft.html JC On 1 juin 07, at 16:21, LuKreme wrote: > On 31-May-2007, at 22:59, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: >> On 1 juin 07, at 13:43, LuKreme wrote: >>> On 31-May-2007, at 19:09, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: >>>> On 1 juin 07, at 09:54, Ashley Aitken wrote: >>>>> Interestingly, as reported elsewhere, the Microsoft Surface >>>>> doesn't use touch-screen technology but instead many (5) >>>>> infrared cameras under the screen. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure if that will scale well to large whiteboards. >>>> >>>> Because the purpose is different. Using cameras (in a sort of 3d >>>> internal rendering) allows for recognizing object that are put >>>> on the table. Combining that to multitouch technology (2d >>>> mostly) allows for new combinations. At least that is my >>>> understanding. >>> >>> I can't imagine that even five cameras can provide the fine touch >>> control of a touchscreen. >> >> Two cameras are enough to offer a 3d perception of the object put >> on the 2d glass surface. Object recognition processes do the rest. >> And that says nothing about what can be added by the touchscreen >> functions. > > I am not talking about OBJECTS, I said, "I can't imagine that even > five cameras can provide the fine touch control of a touchscreen". > > As in, TOUCHING the surface with your FINGERS and CONTROLLING what > is happening. From mrhatken at mac.com Fri Jun 1 06:57:43 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Fri Jun 1 07:01:38 2007 Subject: It's official! Message-ID: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> From Steve himself: "Apple views itself as a software company." "It's in a beautiful box but it is software." That should settle any debate (NOT). Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) From shawnce at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 07:05:54 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Fri Jun 1 07:06:03 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jun 1, 2007, at 6:57 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > From Steve himself: > > together-part-2-of-7/> > > "Apple views itself as a software company." > > "It's in a beautiful box but it is software." Yeah and? -Shawn From mrhatken at mac.com Fri Jun 1 07:27:30 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Fri Jun 1 07:28:10 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> Message-ID: <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> On 01/06/2007, at 10:05 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > > On Jun 1, 2007, at 6:57 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >> >> From Steve himself: >> >> > together-part-2-of-7/> >> >> "Apple views itself as a software company." >> >> "It's in a beautiful box but it is software." > > Yeah and? You trimmed the quote just a little too much Shawn. The rest of my email said: > That should settle any debate (NOT). In which I was referring to the numerous debates here and elsewhere about Apple being a hardware company or a software company or both. I think Steve made it clear here that they're all about the software. Now you may have thought that all along but I am sure there are others who still feel it is about the hardware or hardware and software. And in the video Steve even goes on to talk about the importance of hardware/software integration. I think the reality is that the hardware is the dongle for Apple's software. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) From shawnce at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 07:59:46 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Fri Jun 1 07:59:50 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> Message-ID: On 6/1/07, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > On 01/06/2007, at 10:05 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > > > > > On Jun 1, 2007, at 6:57 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > > >> > >> From Steve himself: > >> > >> >> together-part-2-of-7/> > >> > >> "Apple views itself as a software company." > >> > >> "It's in a beautiful box but it is software." > > > > Yeah and? > > You trimmed the quote just a little too much Shawn. > > The rest of my email said: > > > That should settle any debate (NOT). > > In which I was referring to the numerous debates here and elsewhere > about Apple being a hardware company or a software company or both. > > I think Steve made it clear here that they're all about the software. He made it clear that systems today are software in pretty boxes (as in the most important factor is software, in essence the human interface)... that however says nothing about Apple not also making those pretty boxes. Later (or earlier) he talks about making hardware and building out the cloud (sometimes by partnering) to support the software is Apple business model and strength. As I have said in recent years Apple is a _solutions_ company which in its current form is comprised of hardware, software, stuff in the cloud (internet) and strong integration with digital devices (cameras, etc.). So personally I always saw the debate about hardware / software company a pointless debate. Now if you look at Apple's financials and talk in those terms Apple is primarily a hardware company and likely will remain that way for the foreseeable future. -Shawn From shawnce at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 08:02:27 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Fri Jun 1 08:02:33 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> Message-ID: On 6/1/07, Ashley Aitken wrote: > I think the reality is that the hardware is the dongle for Apple's > software. It is mostly Apple using software and industrial design to enable generally commodity hardware to do things for customers in simpler and more powerful ways. It is far far more then a "dongle". -Shawn From mrhatken at mac.com Fri Jun 1 08:20:04 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Fri Jun 1 08:21:26 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> Message-ID: <42FAB8B7-4A63-4CF9-B196-6B8717B8A3BB@mac.com> There you go Shawn! As I mentioned, I thought that was a clear declaration by Steve that Apple is a software company, but many (including you) still see it otherwise. I agree the iPod is a complete solution (iTMS, iTunes, iPod) but I don't believe that analogy stretches as far as Apple's computers. On 01/06/2007, at 11:02 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > On 6/1/07, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >> I think the reality is that the hardware is the dongle for Apple's >> software. > > It is mostly Apple using software and industrial design to enable > generally commodity hardware to do things for customers in simpler and > more powerful ways. It is far far more then a "dongle". I believe OSX on some of the better Sony Vaio laptops would be as good an experience (if not better in some ways, e.g. battery life, small form factors) than on Apple hardware. I agree Apple still has the edge in "industrial design" (viz my relationship with my PowerBook is almost romantic) but as Steve said, its primarily about the software (OSX and apps). Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) From shawnce at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 08:46:10 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Fri Jun 1 08:46:14 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: <42FAB8B7-4A63-4CF9-B196-6B8717B8A3BB@mac.com> References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> <42FAB8B7-4A63-4CF9-B196-6B8717B8A3BB@mac.com> Message-ID: On 6/1/07, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > There you go Shawn! As I mentioned, I thought that was a clear > declaration by Steve that Apple is a software company, but many > (including you) still see it otherwise. No my point is you are running to far with what Steve said. -Shawn From pelorus at mac.com Fri Jun 1 08:51:10 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Fri Jun 1 08:51:20 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> <42FAB8B7-4A63-4CF9-B196-6B8717B8A3BB@mac.com> Message-ID: On 1 Jun 2007, at 16:46, Shawn Erickson wrote: > On 6/1/07, Ashley Aitken wrote: >> >> There you go Shawn! As I mentioned, I thought that was a clear >> declaration by Steve that Apple is a software company, but many >> (including you) still see it otherwise. > > No my point is you are running to far with what Steve said. As the recent processor shift shows, it doesn't matter what's inside the box. It's always been the software. But Apple makes their money on selling the hardware. Shawn is right - besides - Steve may have also said something about no-PDA, no video ipod, no tablet....in the past. From tonyj at exitdata.co.uk Fri Jun 1 15:23:04 2007 From: tonyj at exitdata.co.uk (Tony Jackson) Date: Fri Jun 1 15:29:49 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> <42FAB8B7-4A63-4CF9-B196-6B8717B8A3BB@mac.com> Message-ID: <23CE792C-31C3-49F9-8B36-5861CC434D51@exitdata.co.uk> On 1 Jun 2007, at 16:46, Shawn Erickson wrote: > > No my point is you are running to far with what Steve said. > Where is the "to far" to which you are running? TJ From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Jun 1 15:39:02 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Fri Jun 1 15:39:06 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> Message-ID: <84B729B7-590D-4467-9800-C05B24CB1B6F@objectwerks.com> On Jun 1, 2007, at 8:59 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > Now if you look at Apple's financials and talk in those terms Apple is > primarily a hardware company and likely will remain that way for the > foreseeable future. Not really. They are a SW company that builds expensive shipping containers for their SW. People are buying OS X, not the pretty box, in most cases. If the same pretty boxes were running Winbloze Apple would be relying on iPod revenue for 90% of the revenue Chad From kcall at mac.com Fri Jun 1 15:56:47 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Jun 1 15:56:50 2007 Subject: AppleTV + YouTube + Search Message-ID: how will searching YouTube work when using AppleTV + YouTube ? the apple remote? a bluetooth keyboard? From shawnce at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 16:04:22 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Fri Jun 1 16:04:29 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: <84B729B7-590D-4467-9800-C05B24CB1B6F@objectwerks.com> References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> <84B729B7-590D-4467-9800-C05B24CB1B6F@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On 6/1/07, Chad Leigh wrote: > > On Jun 1, 2007, at 8:59 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > > > Now if you look at Apple's financials and talk in those terms Apple is > > primarily a hardware company and likely will remain that way for the > > foreseeable future. > > Not really. The financials say nothing about why people are buying things. They just state that a majority of what Apple brings in revenue wise is from the hardware that they sell... that is how it is booked... that is all I was stating with that sentence. -Shawn From kcall at mac.com Fri Jun 1 16:05:09 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Jun 1 16:05:15 2007 Subject: iPhone play/control iTunes over Bonjour Message-ID: <02801E5E-FB97-47BC-817A-745591C91967@mac.com> Does the iPhone have the ability to play / control iTunes (including multiple-speakers) over Bonjour ? What about iPhoto over Bonjour? AppleTV? Would be cool if the iPhone could be used as a more powerful Apple Remote. K From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Jun 1 17:31:55 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc) Date: Fri Jun 1 17:32:05 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> <84B729B7-590D-4467-9800-C05B24CB1B6F@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On Jun 1, 2007, at 5:04 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > On 6/1/07, Chad Leigh wrote: >> >> On Jun 1, 2007, at 8:59 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: >> >> > Now if you look at Apple's financials and talk in those terms >> Apple is >> > primarily a hardware company and likely will remain that way for >> the >> > foreseeable future. >> >> Not really. > > The financials say nothing about why people are buying things. They > just state that a majority of what Apple brings in revenue wise is > from the hardware that they sell... that is how it is booked... that > is all I was stating with that sentence. Sure, but accounting rules do not define the company. Chad From shawnce at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 19:03:47 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Fri Jun 1 19:03:56 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> <84B729B7-590D-4467-9800-C05B24CB1B6F@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On Jun 1, 2007, at 5:31 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc wrote: > > On Jun 1, 2007, at 5:04 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > >> On 6/1/07, Chad Leigh wrote: >>> >>> On Jun 1, 2007, at 8:59 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: >>> >>> > Now if you look at Apple's financials and talk in those terms >>> Apple is >>> > primarily a hardware company and likely will remain that way >>> for the >>> > foreseeable future. >>> >>> Not really. >> >> The financials say nothing about why people are buying things. They >> just state that a majority of what Apple brings in revenue wise is >> from the hardware that they sell... that is how it is booked... that >> is all I was stating with that sentence. > > Sure, but accounting rules do not define the company. ...and didn't say that. From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Jun 1 19:07:20 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc) Date: Fri Jun 1 19:07:19 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> <84B729B7-590D-4467-9800-C05B24CB1B6F@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <439675F7-CD17-4BF3-A332-BFA521FBDBD2@objectwerks.com> On Jun 1, 2007, at 8:03 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > > On Jun 1, 2007, at 5:31 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc wrote: > >> >> On Jun 1, 2007, at 5:04 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: >> >>> On 6/1/07, Chad Leigh wrote: >>>> >>>> On Jun 1, 2007, at 8:59 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: >>>> >>>> > Now if you look at Apple's financials and talk in those terms >>>> Apple is >>>> > primarily a hardware company and likely will remain that way >>>> for the >>>> > foreseeable future. >>>> >>>> Not really. >>> >>> The financials say nothing about why people are buying things. They >>> just state that a majority of what Apple brings in revenue wise is >>> from the hardware that they sell... that is how it is booked... that >>> is all I was stating with that sentence. >> >> Sure, but accounting rules do not define the company. > > ...and didn't say that. Kind of did... You stressed what the financials said. The financials are written according to accounting rules. If the rules were not written the way they were, you might see more revenue booked for the OS since that is where a lot of the R&D and Engineering funds go and less against the HW IANACPA Chad From mrhatken at mac.com Sat Jun 2 00:05:52 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Sat Jun 2 00:06:36 2007 Subject: AppleTV + YouTube + Search In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kevin (et al.), On 02/06/2007, at 6:56 AM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > how will searching YouTube work when using AppleTV + YouTube ? > the apple remote? > a bluetooth keyboard? I think it will be more like iTunes: Genres, top 100 videos, favourites, channels, alphabetical lists etc. If there is search it will probably be picking characters with the remote. I can't see Steve including keyboard-requiring functionality just for YouTube. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) From kremels at kreme.com Sat Jun 2 00:13:21 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat Jun 2 00:13:51 2007 Subject: iPhone play/control iTunes over Bonjour In-Reply-To: <02801E5E-FB97-47BC-817A-745591C91967@mac.com> References: <02801E5E-FB97-47BC-817A-745591C91967@mac.com> Message-ID: On 1-Jun-2007, at 17:05, Kevin Callahan wrote: > Does the iPhone have the ability to play / control iTunes > (including multiple-speakers) over Bonjour ? > What about iPhoto over Bonjour? > AppleTV? We don't know. I think half us are thinking, "Well of course it will, duh!" and the other half are thinking "Maybe in some update in the fall... if ever." > Would be cool if the iPhone could be used as a more powerful Apple > Remote. Indubitably. -- Dinosaurs are attacking! Throw a barrel! From kremels at kreme.com Sat Jun 2 00:15:09 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat Jun 2 00:15:37 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: <84B729B7-590D-4467-9800-C05B24CB1B6F@objectwerks.com> References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> <84B729B7-590D-4467-9800-C05B24CB1B6F@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On 1-Jun-2007, at 16:39, Chad Leigh wrote: > On Jun 1, 2007, at 8:59 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: >> Now if you look at Apple's financials and talk in those terms >> Apple is >> primarily a hardware company and likely will remain that way for the >> foreseeable future. > > Not really. They are a SW company that builds expensive shipping > containers for their SW. People are buying OS X, not the pretty > box, in most cases. If the same pretty boxes were running Winbloze > Apple would be relying on iPod revenue for 90% of the revenue I don't think that is true anymore. I know at least a couple of people who have bought Mac Books and Mac Book Pros and only use Windows XP on them, and isn't there a company out there reselling Mac laptops with Windows re-installed? -- "There's a light that shines on everything & everyone. And it shines so bright - brighter even than the sun". That's what Minnie thinks as she walks to meet her brother, who is nearly two years older, on a Saturday night. He's DJ-ing at some do on the edge of town on the night that Minnie Timperley died. From kremels at kreme.com Sat Jun 2 00:36:53 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat Jun 2 00:37:21 2007 Subject: cool multi-touch stuff ! In-Reply-To: <3A59C9CA-C04C-49F4-8DA5-6662C51D58C0@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> References: <2D3813BE-9768-4682-891A-F5A80A0FAA9B@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <80C0C8FA-861F-4D7A-9EF6-4D36A120359D@mac.com> <2459264A-78DC-49A4-8E94-5D83E73ADD7E@mac.com> <5D841475-266B-4442-A94A-FE4BF59CA3CC@mac.com> <4AD530FB-2CDA-4ED9-8F89-59312F51F719@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <6A82C739-5465-4B0C-849E-B645D59A46EA@kreme.com> <114D9FC3-CBBC-4FD9-B1BA-8582BD8C9600@kreme.com> <3A59C9CA-C04C-49F4-8DA5-6662C51D58C0@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> Message-ID: <1AE9CB62-F78C-4B96-8915-F539115E4E1B@kreme.com> On 1-Jun-2007, at 03:42, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > Thank you for the emphasis. That was pretty clear from the > beginning that the cameras had _nothing_ to do whatsoever with > touching. Except for your nerve maybe. ??? Let's go back to the original post I replied to, shall we. On 1 juin 07, at 09:54, Ashley Aitken wrote: > Interestingly, as reported elsewhere, the Microsoft Surface doesn't > use touch-screen technology but instead many (5) infrared cameras > under the screen. > > I'm not sure if that will scale well to large whiteboards. Now, see where Ashley says that Surface doesn't use touch-screen technology and that it uses 5 infrared cameras INSTEAD? Now, I said: "I can't imagine that even five cameras can provide the fine touch control of a touchscreen." and then you said: "Two cameras are enough to offer a 3d perception of the object put on the 2d glass surface. Object recognition processes do the rest. And that says nothing about what can be added by the touchscreen functions." So, WHAT touch-screen functions are you talking about, because according to everything on this thread, Surface doesn't USE touch- screens, but 5 infrared cameras INSTEAD. So, something is obviously not clear here. Either the cameras are what controls Surface or they are not. Either way, someone is wrong here, and it is either you or Ashley. I know it's not me, because I'm just going by what's been said in this thread. I've, in fact, not read anything about Surface other than what has been posted in this thread. Now, following up with your next post, you pasted: And so, I say again: "I can't imagine that even five cameras can provide the fine touch control of a touchscreen." Now, we can all go back to 31-May-07 at 19:09 -0600 when I first said that and argue about how well (or not) 5 infrared cameras can provide the fine motor control that a touch screen would provide. Mickeysoft claims it's so awesome no one will even remember touch-screens: > Those cameras, which are located below the acrylic surface of the > table, can read a nearly infinite number of simultaneous touches, > and are limited only by processing power. Keam says that Surface > has been optimized for 52 touches?enough for four people to use all > 10 fingers at once and still have 12 objects sitting on the table. Hmm.. That's the minimum number for a seance, right? Although I hear seven is better. Well, there's part of the answer, the cameras are below the Surface, so there's no chance of obstruction. I admit confusion with Ashley's "under the screen" since I was not thinking of the table top as a 'screen'. Anyway, I still stand by my question, I would need to use this thing before I would be convinced it could handle small movements well enough to not be damn annoying. Especially considering Microsoft. It's an interesting technology, but it sure seems like it's going to be VERY expensive. I still think the future is in touch-screens. Now, where is that special paint that I can paint on my wall and then connect to the video ports on my computer? They promised that stuff would be out by now, didn't they? Closest thing I can find is this guy having his head shoved against a wall: -- If I were you boys, I wouldn't talk or even think about women. T'aint good for your health. From chad at objectwerks.com Sat Jun 2 08:55:18 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc) Date: Sat Jun 2 08:55:13 2007 Subject: It's official! In-Reply-To: References: <4BEAC676-A1C8-4C44-93EE-C03E82F27DFA@mac.com> <2F982C49-5459-40D7-A5B9-045CDDB986EB@mac.com> <84B729B7-590D-4467-9800-C05B24CB1B6F@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <9B660265-5375-469C-88F1-2B7DD4E1CB22@objectwerks.com> On Jun 2, 2007, at 1:15 AM, LuKreme wrote: > On 1-Jun-2007, at 16:39, Chad Leigh wrote: >> On Jun 1, 2007, at 8:59 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: >>> Now if you look at Apple's financials and talk in those terms >>> Apple is >>> primarily a hardware company and likely will remain that way for the >>> foreseeable future. >> >> Not really. They are a SW company that builds expensive shipping >> containers for their SW. People are buying OS X, not the pretty >> box, in most cases. If the same pretty boxes were running >> Winbloze Apple would be relying on iPod revenue for 90% of the >> revenue > > I don't think that is true anymore. I know at least a couple of > people who have bought Mac Books and Mac Book Pros and only use > Windows XP on them, and isn't there a company out there reselling > Mac laptops with Windows re-installed? > That is why I said 90% and not 100%. There are a few people who buy them to run Windows with. Most people still buy a Mac because it is a mac, not a fancy aesthetically pleasing box Chad From kcall at mac.com Sat Jun 2 10:52:18 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sat Jun 2 10:52:19 2007 Subject: Visual Hub Message-ID: Thanks to all those who suggested Visual Hub - exactly what I need. Great app! Thanks. Kevin Callahan http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070602/b22a62ae/attachment.html From kcall at mac.com Sat Jun 2 16:14:44 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sat Jun 2 16:14:49 2007 Subject: YouTube Coming to Apple TV In-Reply-To: <230CC342-EB54-498A-9E40-9DFE64B2B4CC@maxify.com> References: <95B14813-432D-40CE-B002-5D28030DF9F1@mac.com> <230CC342-EB54-498A-9E40-9DFE64B2B4CC@maxify.com> Message-ID: <375CBFF3-96EE-4AC3-B18B-593F79A0D092@mac.com> On May 30, 2007, at 8:45 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On May 30, 2007, at 1:59 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> I don't have an AppleTV -- how would one search the YouTube site >> to choose what vids to display on AppleTV ? >> does AppleTV respond to a keyboard for typing searches ? >> >> > 113881.shtml> > > I don't think those details are released yet. > > http://www.apple.com/appletv/tour.html?section=youtube > http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/05/30appletv.html > > - Scott is there is a search field in AppleTV now ? and if so, how fast can you generate a search with an AppleRemote ? I can see a search option in the YouTube / AppleTV demo, but I don't see the search actually demoed -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070602/ebbb2d5a/attachment.html From kcall at mac.com Sat Jun 2 19:06:08 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sat Jun 2 19:06:12 2007 Subject: reconcile iTunes Movies playlist vs iTunes/Movies contents Message-ID: I have 536 items in my iTunes/Movies folder, but only 486 items in my iTunes Movies playlist what's the best way to reconcile ... and determine why there is a discrepancy? File types in the iTunes/Movies folder are: Quicktime .mov MPEG-4 Video MPEG Movie MPEG 4 Movie Movie file (H.264) Media files (swf) DV Movie AVI Movie I'd like to move the non-recognized/playable files out from the iTunes/Movies folder into some other folder - and then try to convert them to something iTunes (and AppleTV) understands. Given there are all sorts of media types out there, I'm finding Visual Hub to be my friend - but somehow, 50 some-odd files got into my library that shouldn't have prior to buying VH. Thanks, Kevin From kremels at kreme.com Sat Jun 2 21:38:14 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat Jun 2 21:38:47 2007 Subject: reconcile iTunes Movies playlist vs iTunes/Movies contents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2-Jun-2007, at 20:06, Kevin Callahan wrote: > what's the best way to reconcile ... and determine why there is a > discrepancy? turn off "copy to itunes folder" and drag all the items from the folder into itunes. Then turn it back on (assuming it was on to begin with) -- Eyes the shady night has shut/Cannot see the record cut And silence sounds no worse than cheers/After earth has stopped the ears. From kcall at mac.com Sat Jun 2 21:47:59 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sat Jun 2 21:48:04 2007 Subject: reconcile iTunes Movies playlist vs iTunes/Movies contents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <316E0461-5865-4F1D-B900-26E8E45833A7@mac.com> On Jun 2, 2007, at 9:38 PM, LuKreme wrote: > On 2-Jun-2007, at 20:06, Kevin Callahan wrote: >> what's the best way to reconcile ... and determine why there is a >> discrepancy? > > turn off "copy to itunes folder" and drag all the items from the > folder into itunes. that's what i did, and now I have to solve this problem certain file types are not playable by iTunes (even if they ARE playable by QT - with a plugin) I just want to do a quick compare or diff between my iTunes playlist and the Finder's directory > > Then turn it back on (assuming it was on to begin with) did that K From scott at cocoadoc.com Sat Jun 2 23:39:48 2007 From: scott at cocoadoc.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Sat Jun 2 23:39:51 2007 Subject: iPhone play/control iTunes over Bonjour In-Reply-To: <02801E5E-FB97-47BC-817A-745591C91967@mac.com> References: <02801E5E-FB97-47BC-817A-745591C91967@mac.com> Message-ID: <66DD7DDE-4C25-4BB9-A124-4CC8AF9BB62F@cocoadoc.com> On Jun 1, 2007, at 7:05 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > Does the iPhone have the ability to play / control iTunes > (including multiple-speakers) over Bonjour ? > What about iPhoto over Bonjour? > AppleTV? > > Would be cool if the iPhone could be used as a more powerful Apple > Remote. Kev, you're just nuts. While high end users do pay $600 for remotes, nobody is going to pay that, and a monthly fee to control iTunes. From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Jun 3 00:04:50 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc) Date: Sun Jun 3 00:04:50 2007 Subject: iPhone play/control iTunes over Bonjour In-Reply-To: <66DD7DDE-4C25-4BB9-A124-4CC8AF9BB62F@cocoadoc.com> References: <02801E5E-FB97-47BC-817A-745591C91967@mac.com> <66DD7DDE-4C25-4BB9-A124-4CC8AF9BB62F@cocoadoc.com> Message-ID: On Jun 3, 2007, at 12:39 AM, Scott Anguish wrote: > > On Jun 1, 2007, at 7:05 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> Does the iPhone have the ability to play / control iTunes >> (including multiple-speakers) over Bonjour ? >> What about iPhoto over Bonjour? >> AppleTV? >> >> Would be cool if the iPhone could be used as a more powerful Apple >> Remote. > > Kev, you're just nuts. How does that follow? > > While high end users do pay $600 for remotes, nobody is going to > pay that, and a monthly fee to control iTunes. Who said anyone was going to pay $600 and a monthly fee *to control iTunes*. They will pay the $600 and the monthly fee for an iPhone and all that means including talking and surfing and whatever they do. If it could ALSO be used as a high end remote that would be awesome as an added benefit. (And might convince some people to buy it as a replacement phone for what they have now -- you know, the straw that broke the camels back :-) Like a regular phone and Salling Clicker on steroids Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Jun 3 00:18:34 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc) Date: Sun Jun 3 00:18:25 2007 Subject: iPhone play/control iTunes over Bonjour In-Reply-To: References: <02801E5E-FB97-47BC-817A-745591C91967@mac.com> <66DD7DDE-4C25-4BB9-A124-4CC8AF9BB62F@cocoadoc.com> Message-ID: <81D446D3-CEC9-4B0E-BC4B-77E15A1E514E@objectwerks.com> On Jun 3, 2007, at 1:04 AM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc wrote: > If it could ALSO be used as a high end remote that would be awesome > as an added benefit. Clarification -- high end Apple remote or at least fancy high end iTunes remote -- not generic stereo remote like the high end remotes for standard systems Chad From fracai at mac.com Sun Jun 3 05:38:07 2007 From: fracai at mac.com (Arno Hautala) Date: Sun Jun 3 05:38:19 2007 Subject: reconcile iTunes Movies playlist vs iTunes/Movies contents In-Reply-To: <316E0461-5865-4F1D-B900-26E8E45833A7@mac.com> References: <316E0461-5865-4F1D-B900-26E8E45833A7@mac.com> Message-ID: On 2007/06/03, at 00:47, Kevin Callahan wrote: > I just want to do a quick compare or diff between my iTunes > playlist and the Finder's directory You can use "iTunes Music Library.xml" for this. You'll see entries like the following for movies. 10004 Track ID10004 NameSession 500 - IT State of the Union ... Track TypeFile Has Video Movie File Type1299148630 File Creator1752133483 Locationfile://localhost/ Users/~/Music/iTunes/iTunes%20Music/Movies/movie.mov File Folder Count-1 Library Folder Count-1 Actually, you can select the Movies Library in iTunes and select Export from the File menu. This should give you a text list of tags and file paths that you can trim down to just the file names (not paths) and compare with the output of an ls on the Movies folder. After sorting you should be able to run a diff to find just what is different. -- -- arno s. hautala /-\ arno@alum.wpi.edu -- -- From kcall at mac.com Sun Jun 3 08:48:26 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sun Jun 3 08:48:32 2007 Subject: iPhone play/control iTunes over Bonjour In-Reply-To: <66DD7DDE-4C25-4BB9-A124-4CC8AF9BB62F@cocoadoc.com> References: <02801E5E-FB97-47BC-817A-745591C91967@mac.com> <66DD7DDE-4C25-4BB9-A124-4CC8AF9BB62F@cocoadoc.com> Message-ID: <67B61BB8-A5E7-41CE-AB40-0CF43665CF9D@mac.com> On Jun 2, 2007, at 11:39 PM, Scott Anguish wrote: > > On Jun 1, 2007, at 7:05 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> Does the iPhone have the ability to play / control iTunes >> (including multiple-speakers) over Bonjour ? >> What about iPhoto over Bonjour? >> AppleTV? >> >> Would be cool if the iPhone could be used as a more powerful Apple >> Remote. > > Kev, you're just nuts. > > While high end users do pay $600 for remotes, nobody is going to > pay that, and a monthly fee to control iTunes. in their spare time, they could use the remote for phone, email, internet, ipod .. :-) From kcall at mac.com Sun Jun 3 08:52:56 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sun Jun 3 08:53:02 2007 Subject: iPhone play/control iTunes over Bonjour In-Reply-To: References: <02801E5E-FB97-47BC-817A-745591C91967@mac.com> <66DD7DDE-4C25-4BB9-A124-4CC8AF9BB62F@cocoadoc.com> Message-ID: <89BD5DFF-D96C-4D79-9E84-14A030DD93DD@mac.com> On Jun 3, 2007, at 12:04 AM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc wrote: > > On Jun 3, 2007, at 12:39 AM, Scott Anguish wrote: > >> >> On Jun 1, 2007, at 7:05 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: >> >>> Does the iPhone have the ability to play / control iTunes >>> (including multiple-speakers) over Bonjour ? >>> What about iPhoto over Bonjour? >>> AppleTV? >>> >>> Would be cool if the iPhone could be used as a more powerful >>> Apple Remote. >> >> Kev, you're just nuts. > > How does that follow? > >> >> While high end users do pay $600 for remotes, nobody is going to >> pay that, and a monthly fee to control iTunes. > > Who said anyone was going to pay $600 and a monthly fee *to control > iTunes*. They will pay the $600 and the monthly fee for an iPhone > and all that means including talking and surfing and whatever they > do. If it could ALSO be used as a high end remote that would be > awesome as an added benefit. (And might convince some people to > buy it as a replacement phone for what they have now -- you know, > the straw that broke the camels back :-) > > Like a regular phone and Salling Clicker on steroids > > Chad > yeah .. I have a student who switched to Mac last month - bought an iMac for kitchen, MBPro for himself, AE_n and a couple of AExpresses ... and AppleTV he was going to buy the SONUS system on top of all that JUST so he could carry around their little "hi-end remote" to control music around the house without having to run to a computer or carry his laptop .. I told him to hold off as the iPhone might provide this feature wishful thinking ? I would love these features in the iPhone as well. The Apple Remote, as slick as it is, doesn't quite cut it. Among many things, it would be nice to be able to use the iPhone's virtual keyboard to search your FrontRow library ... and YouTube, for example. K From scott at maxify.com Sun Jun 3 09:36:33 2007 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Sun Jun 3 09:36:46 2007 Subject: YouTube Coming to Apple TV In-Reply-To: <375CBFF3-96EE-4AC3-B18B-593F79A0D092@mac.com> References: <95B14813-432D-40CE-B002-5D28030DF9F1@mac.com> <230CC342-EB54-498A-9E40-9DFE64B2B4CC@maxify.com> <375CBFF3-96EE-4AC3-B18B-593F79A0D092@mac.com> Message-ID: <87373901-9653-4405-A7E1-4BC243310293@maxify.com> On Jun 2, 2007, at 4:14 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > is there is a search field in AppleTV now ? I don't have an Apple TV, but I don't think there is. - Scott From kcall at mac.com Sun Jun 3 09:47:01 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sun Jun 3 09:47:05 2007 Subject: YouTube Coming to Apple TV In-Reply-To: <87373901-9653-4405-A7E1-4BC243310293@maxify.com> References: <95B14813-432D-40CE-B002-5D28030DF9F1@mac.com> <230CC342-EB54-498A-9E40-9DFE64B2B4CC@maxify.com> <375CBFF3-96EE-4AC3-B18B-593F79A0D092@mac.com> <87373901-9653-4405-A7E1-4BC243310293@maxify.com> Message-ID: <9A76B821-D100-43AE-BAFA-8E7CF90CD5F3@mac.com> On Jun 3, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Jun 2, 2007, at 4:14 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> is there is a search field in AppleTV now ? > > I don't have an Apple TV, but I don't think there is. > there's definitely a search option for YouTube -- I wonder what the interface is K From mrhatken at mac.com Sun Jun 3 10:11:41 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Sun Jun 3 10:13:08 2007 Subject: YouTube Coming to Apple TV In-Reply-To: <9A76B821-D100-43AE-BAFA-8E7CF90CD5F3@mac.com> References: <95B14813-432D-40CE-B002-5D28030DF9F1@mac.com> <230CC342-EB54-498A-9E40-9DFE64B2B4CC@maxify.com> <375CBFF3-96EE-4AC3-B18B-593F79A0D092@mac.com> <87373901-9653-4405-A7E1-4BC243310293@maxify.com> <9A76B821-D100-43AE-BAFA-8E7CF90CD5F3@mac.com> Message-ID: <8B5A69EB-FF9C-446D-A69B-318B66443A15@mac.com> On 04/06/2007, at 12:47 AM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > On Jun 3, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > >> >> On Jun 2, 2007, at 4:14 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: >> >>> is there is a search field in AppleTV now ? >> >> I don't have an Apple TV, but I don't think there is. >> > > there's definitely a search option for YouTube -- I wonder what the > interface is It's got to be pick and click the letters, doesn't it? With only the Apple Remote there's not much else it can do, is there (for search that is)? I like the idea of the iPhone being a virtual keyboard, although as the AppleTV doesn't (currently) have Bluetooth it would need to be 802.11n (and that would drain the battery quite fast). Perhaps a Bluetooth dongle for the AppleTV (and later version including BT)? Cheers, Ashley. From kcall at mac.com Sun Jun 3 14:40:13 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sun Jun 3 14:40:18 2007 Subject: large external drive recommendation Message-ID: I was about to order at least one LaCie Big Extreme 1T drive until someone sent me this link: can someone recommend a reliable big drive (750 minimum, preferable 1T) are the LaCie BIG drives that unreliable ? I have a LaCie 250 (about 2 years old) that I love and an all-terrain (about 8 months old) that is fantastic .. Thanks, K From vze23mcb at verizon.net Sun Jun 3 15:28:27 2007 From: vze23mcb at verizon.net (Robert Marini) Date: Sun Jun 3 15:29:26 2007 Subject: large external drive recommendation Message-ID: I've always had good experiences with LaCie products. I know Windows users who hate them because it requires a reformat but I was surprised when I saw that link. There are similar reviews on Amazon. I've yet to own an external WD that didn't die within three weeks yet I know a lot of people who swear by them. rob On Jun 3, 2007, at 5:40 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > I was about to order at least one LaCie Big Extreme 1T drive until > someone sent me this link: > > product_id=11165851/id_type=masterid> > > can someone recommend a reliable big drive (750 minimum, preferable > 1T) > > are the LaCie BIG drives that unreliable ? > I have a LaCie 250 (about 2 years old) that I love and an all- > terrain (about 8 months old) that is fantastic .. > > > Thanks, > K > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From jeff at jeffweinberger.com Sun Jun 3 15:38:42 2007 From: jeff at jeffweinberger.com (Jeff Weinberger) Date: Sun Jun 3 15:38:49 2007 Subject: large external drive recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've had a number of Maxtor drives of various models and sizes, and they've all died some sort of horrible death - I've lost some precious data. I switched a few years ago to exclusively LaCie and (knock on wood...) I haven't had any problems (that were LaCie-related). I've never had a 1T or 2T drive, but I have a variety of models from 160GB to 500GB, and I've liked them all. I'm really surprised at this story, since I've also found their customer service remarkable. One option, if it's viable for you is to get several 500GB drives (maybe more reliable due to having worked out the bugs already) and chain them in a pseudo-raid style (disk utility can do this) to create a single larger volume. I'd stay away from Maxtor. My next purchase will be a pair of 2TB drives for my growing music/ movie collection - so I'm anxious to hear about the result of this... (BTW: The one problem I did have was I bought a pair of 640GB USB2- only drives and it turns out there's a problem with USB2-only drives and 10.4.9 where the OS doesn't recognize the drive at all. It affects a small number of users, and apparently I'm one of those. It does not happen with multiple-interface drives. LaCie accepted my return, paid return shipping and paid the shipping for my new multi- interface drives. I'd call that remarkable) On Jun 3, 2007, at 3:28 PM, Robert Marini wrote: > I've always had good experiences with LaCie products. I know > Windows users who hate them because it requires a reformat but I > was surprised when I saw that link. There are similar reviews on > Amazon. > > I've yet to own an external WD that didn't die within three weeks > yet I know a lot of people who swear by them. > > rob > > On Jun 3, 2007, at 5:40 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> I was about to order at least one LaCie Big Extreme 1T drive until >> someone sent me this link: >> >> > product_id=11165851/id_type=masterid> >> >> can someone recommend a reliable big drive (750 minimum, >> preferable 1T) >> >> are the LaCie BIG drives that unreliable ? >> I have a LaCie 250 (about 2 years old) that I love and an all- >> terrain (about 8 months old) that is fantastic .. >> >> >> Thanks, >> K >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From charles.dyer at gmail.com Sun Jun 3 15:40:35 2007 From: charles.dyer at gmail.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Sun Jun 3 15:40:41 2007 Subject: large external drive recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1F5C6B99-769B-46F3-B5CA-0D1375C3BB4C@gmail.com> On 03 Jun 2007, at 17:40:13, Kevin Callahan wrote: > I was about to order at least one LaCie Big Extreme 1T drive until > someone sent me this link: > > product_id=11165851/id_type=masterid> > > can someone recommend a reliable big drive (750 minimum, preferable > 1T) > > are the LaCie BIG drives that unreliable ? It's a RAID 0. Two 500 GB drives in one case. If one of the drives fails, kiss everything on both of them goodbye. > I have a LaCie 250 (about 2 years old) that I love and an all- > terrain (about 8 months old) that is fantastic .. I used to have two LaCies, a 200 GB d2 and a 250 GB d2, on my personal Mac. The 200 gave absolutely no trouble right until about March this year, when it simply refused to spin up from sleep. It was about 4 years old. The 250 has been replaced twice under the warranty, both times because of a power problem rather than the drive itself. The current unit is now over a year old and still running. From steve at paper-ape.com Sun Jun 3 19:17:55 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Sun Jun 3 19:18:11 2007 Subject: large external drive recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46637653.4090901@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Kevin Callahan wrote: > I was about to order at least one LaCie Big Extreme 1T drive until > someone sent me this link: > > > > > can someone recommend a reliable big drive (750 minimum, preferable 1T) i've been planning to buy two 500 GB SATA barracudas (5 yr warranty) from newegg and put them in one of the dual-drive enclosures from OWC; total price if i catch the right fluctuation should be about $340 for a RAIDable FW 800/USB 2 unit: > are the LaCie BIG drives that unreliable ? testimonials are helpful, but also, themselves, quite unreliable like many other drive packagers, LaCie just slaps a case around some standard drives and an OEM bridge board; maybe they have some say in how the cases are made, and perhaps they have something to do with the firmware on the bridgeboard, and i guess they have to decide how much they're willing to spend on the power supply, but most of the reliability of any "packaged" drive is going to be out of the hands of the packager, unless they are really reaching for the bottom (which LaCie might or might not be doing; they seem to still be trading on the reputation they deserved 10 years ago) From abridge at gmail.com Sun Jun 3 20:06:20 2007 From: abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge) Date: Sun Jun 3 20:06:23 2007 Subject: First iPhone ad Message-ID: <4cfa589b0706032006qd71a14er7a9067ea004fe72e@mail.gmail.com> I saw an iPhone ad (quite elegant) on Coldcase with a release date, I think, of 28 or 29 June. Great ad - serious drool factor. Adam From kcall at mac.com Sun Jun 3 20:18:39 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sun Jun 3 20:18:54 2007 Subject: First iPhone ad In-Reply-To: <4cfa589b0706032006qd71a14er7a9067ea004fe72e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4cfa589b0706032006qd71a14er7a9067ea004fe72e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8918BC34-34A7-4F0F-A554-544F7B65FE81@mac.com> On Jun 3, 2007, at 8:06 PM, Adam Bridge wrote: > I saw an iPhone ad (quite elegant) on Coldcase with a release date, I > think, of 28 or 29 June. > > Great ad - serious drool factor. > > Adam indeed! Kevin Callahan > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Jun 3 23:01:21 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc) Date: Sun Jun 3 23:01:24 2007 Subject: First iPhone ad In-Reply-To: <8918BC34-34A7-4F0F-A554-544F7B65FE81@mac.com> References: <4cfa589b0706032006qd71a14er7a9067ea004fe72e@mail.gmail.com> <8918BC34-34A7-4F0F-A554-544F7B65FE81@mac.com> Message-ID: <95706954-D353-4381-AE33-44A1E3F91BDA@objectwerks.com> On Jun 3, 2007, at 9:18 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > On Jun 3, 2007, at 8:06 PM, Adam Bridge wrote: > >> I saw an iPhone ad (quite elegant) on Coldcase with a release date, I >> think, of 28 or 29 June. >> >> Great ad - serious drool factor. >> >> Adam > > indeed! > > All I can say is WOW. That Calamari thing was cool. Hope there is an SSH client available so I can justify it :-) Chad From andrew.brown at c18.net Mon Jun 4 05:44:46 2007 From: andrew.brown at c18.net (Andrew Brown) Date: Mon Jun 4 05:44:58 2007 Subject: Incoming faxes Message-ID: <7D15868C-383C-4020-8B7B-4EDB48A98C8D@c18.net> This came up a while back, and the answer then was, tough luck. Perhaps things have changed... One of our machines receives faxes, and is supposed to email them to me. Sometimes it does, and there again sometimes it doesn't, they just sit there in user/Faxes doing nothing. There is no discernable pattern. Is there a solution? AB From mrhatken at mac.com Mon Jun 4 06:07:51 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Mon Jun 4 06:08:36 2007 Subject: iBook that Freezes? Message-ID: <07449CB2-88D9-405C-80CC-F663BC2C72CC@mac.com> Howdy All, We have one of the last iBook G4 models that recently started freezing solid (pointer won't move) a few minutes after boot and needs a reboot. When rebooting it goes into a strange mode where it cycles through different colours (red, green, and blue) and grey patterns on the screen. Just then on reboot it went ever more berserk, the fan came on full speed, the sleep light blinked rapidly and then it reboot itself again. I've googled and freezing iBooks seems to be a common problem but I couldn't find a clear diagnosis or solution anywhere. I've run the iBook full hardware test and it passed. I've zapped the PRAM, taken the battery out for a while and still, it gets stuck, won't boot, or boots and freezes after login (as above). I managed to get it into Target Disk Mode and copied all the important files off it. I guess it could be the graphics subsystem? Any ideas? Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Skype: MrHatken 04 1226-8159 (Mb) 08 9368-5505 (Ph) ashley@hatken.com From bentley at crenelle.com Mon Jun 4 11:55:26 2007 From: bentley at crenelle.com (Michael Brian Bentley) Date: Mon Jun 4 11:55:52 2007 Subject: folder action script .ics -> iCal? Message-ID: Does anyone offhand know of a folder action script to grab any .ics file that comes by (say from an email package that deposits the .ics file in that folder) and uses it to update the iCal calendar? Tnx, -m From scott at maxify.com Mon Jun 4 19:35:04 2007 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Mon Jun 4 19:35:26 2007 Subject: iBook that Freezes? In-Reply-To: <07449CB2-88D9-405C-80CC-F663BC2C72CC@mac.com> References: <07449CB2-88D9-405C-80CC-F663BC2C72CC@mac.com> Message-ID: <66B88E26-2FE0-4D36-9FA4-D2BCB3F48549@maxify.com> On Jun 4, 2007, at 6:07 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > When rebooting it goes into a strange mode where it cycles through > different colours (red, green, and blue) and grey patterns on the > screen. That sounds like a hardware issue, and one that's unlike to be resolved over a mailing list. You should take it to a service center or call Apple to send it in. - Scott -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070604/264a4915/attachment.html From robertlaferla at comcast.net Tue Jun 5 05:28:20 2007 From: robertlaferla at comcast.net (Robert La Ferla) Date: Tue Jun 5 05:28:25 2007 Subject: Apple Store is being updated... Message-ID: http://images.apple.com/r/store/backsoon/title_backsoon1.gif From pelorus at mac.com Tue Jun 5 05:45:55 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Tue Jun 5 05:46:03 2007 Subject: Apple Store is being updated... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26838587-D035-4DFB-BD22-D4F0ED070655@mac.com> It's up. The 17" model can have a 1920x1200 screen. New graphics cards (NVidia 8600 Mobility). All ship with 2 GB RAM and support up to 4 GB. Speeds up to 2.4 GHz. Hard drives up to 250 GB (on the 17 model only?) From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Tue Jun 5 05:45:55 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Tue Jun 5 05:46:12 2007 Subject: Apple Store is being updated... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0C6FF86E-9E62-436E-A87C-DC83A824BDAA@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> New MacBook Pro ! :) On 5 juin 07, at 21:28, Robert La Ferla wrote: > http://images.apple.com/r/store/backsoon/title_backsoon1.gif Jean-Christophe Helary From joar at joar.com Tue Jun 5 11:05:42 2007 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Tue Jun 5 11:06:08 2007 Subject: Apple Store is being updated... In-Reply-To: <26838587-D035-4DFB-BD22-D4F0ED070655@mac.com> References: <26838587-D035-4DFB-BD22-D4F0ED070655@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jun 5, 2007, at 5:45 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > The 17" model can have a 1920x1200 screen. New graphics cards > (NVidia 8600 Mobility). All ship with 2 GB RAM and support up to 4 > GB. Speeds up to 2.4 GHz. Hard drives up to 250 GB (on the 17 model > only?) ...and the 15" model uses the new LED backlighting technology. j o a r From kcall at mac.com Wed Jun 6 08:27:47 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Wed Jun 6 08:28:34 2007 Subject: Blaise Aguera y Arcas: Photosynth demo (video) Message-ID: From joar at joar.com Wed Jun 6 09:25:59 2007 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Wed Jun 6 09:26:12 2007 Subject: Blaise Aguera y Arcas: Photosynth demo (video) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 6, 2007, at 8:27 AM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > Very interesting. I would not have expected something like this to be possible. The singularity is near. j o a r From matthew.penna at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 11:59:43 2007 From: matthew.penna at gmail.com (Matt Penna) Date: Wed Jun 6 12:00:06 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? Message-ID: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> There's been speculation on this for some time, but according to a Sun keynote presentation, ZFS will "become the file system in Mac OS X" and this will be announced at WWDC. I assume this means it will be the default, since it was already known that it was to be included. http://www.sun.com/jsp_utils/rvideo.jsp? video=74cd4547-01df-440b-823d-48878ae34c73 He mentions Mac OS X at around 27 minutes in. Real Player required, unfortunately. More on ZFS for those who are unfamiliar with it: http:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zettabyte_File_System Seems like very positive news! Matt From pelorus at mac.com Wed Jun 6 12:05:34 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Wed Jun 6 12:06:27 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46816A4B-DA6D-48A7-AE90-AFDC598C4D05@mac.com> On 6 Jun 2007, at 19:59, Matt Penna wrote: > ZFS will "become the file system in Mac OS X" and this will be > announced at WWDC. > Seems like very positive news! I rang my mum with the news and she said she didn't understand. I tried reading the Wikipedia article over the phone to her but she seemed disinterested :) (Yes, I'm excited....) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070606/830755b8/attachment.html From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Jun 6 12:36:48 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Wed Jun 6 12:36:52 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Matt Penna wrote: > There's been speculation on this for some time, but according to a > Sun keynote presentation, ZFS will "become the file system in Mac > OS X" and this will be announced at WWDC. I assume this means it > will be the default, since it was already known that it was to be > included. > > http://www.sun.com/jsp_utils/rvideo.jsp? > video=74cd4547-01df-440b-823d-48878ae34c73 > > He mentions Mac OS X at around 27 minutes in. Real Player required, > unfortunately. > > More on ZFS for those who are unfamiliar with it: http:// > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zettabyte_File_System > > Seems like very positive news! This would assume they have a bootable version of ZFS running (which they could have), something Sun does not even ship yet. I am excited. I run a ZFS file server on Solaris right now Chad From kcall at mac.com Wed Jun 6 12:44:02 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Wed Jun 6 12:45:07 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:36 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Matt Penna wrote: > >> There's been speculation on this for some time, but according to a >> Sun keynote presentation, ZFS will "become the file system in Mac >> OS X" and this will be announced at WWDC. I assume this means it >> will be the default, since it was already known that it was to be >> included. >> >> http://www.sun.com/jsp_utils/rvideo.jsp? >> video=74cd4547-01df-440b-823d-48878ae34c73 >> >> He mentions Mac OS X at around 27 minutes in. Real Player >> required, unfortunately. >> >> More on ZFS for those who are unfamiliar with it: http:// >> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zettabyte_File_System >> >> Seems like very positive news! > > > This would assume they have a bootable version of ZFS running > (which they could have), something Sun does not even ship yet. > > I am excited. I run a ZFS file server on Solaris right now > > Chad what might be some of the benefits a home network will see ? From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Jun 6 12:48:22 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Wed Jun 6 12:48:26 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> Message-ID: <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 1:44 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:36 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: > >> >> On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Matt Penna wrote: >> >>> There's been speculation on this for some time, but according to >>> a Sun keynote presentation, ZFS will "become the file system in >>> Mac OS X" and this will be announced at WWDC. I assume this means >>> it will be the default, since it was already known that it was to >>> be included. >>> >>> http://www.sun.com/jsp_utils/rvideo.jsp? >>> video=74cd4547-01df-440b-823d-48878ae34c73 >>> >>> He mentions Mac OS X at around 27 minutes in. Real Player >>> required, unfortunately. >>> >>> More on ZFS for those who are unfamiliar with it: http:// >>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zettabyte_File_System >>> >>> Seems like very positive news! >> >> >> This would assume they have a bootable version of ZFS running >> (which they could have), something Sun does not even ship yet. >> >> I am excited. I run a ZFS file server on Solaris right now >> >> Chad > > what might be some of the benefits a home network will see ? Well, all your disks become one volume (assuming a raidz or raidz2 configuration). And you should be able to increase the size of that volume by adding in a new disk. No more having to worry about a boot disk versus extra data disks and needing more space and adding it in but now how do you move your data around or split across the new disk... That sort of thing. Plus data integrity. Look at the wikipedia article and google ZFS Chad From pelorus at mac.com Wed Jun 6 12:52:26 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Wed Jun 6 12:53:26 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <10969ACB-1C48-461F-AC39-BED8F554D78D@mac.com> On 6 Jun 2007, at 20:48, Chad Leigh wrote: >> what might be some of the benefits a home network will see ? > > Well, all your disks become one volume (assuming a raidz or raidz2 > configuration). IE. slide in another disk in that Mac Pro and the SINGLE disk icon on your desktop just gets capacious. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070606/a09b0ebd/attachment.html From matthew.penna at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 13:20:16 2007 From: matthew.penna at gmail.com (Matt Penna) Date: Wed Jun 6 13:20:21 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> Message-ID: <22B276E6-AA2E-4645-9358-A5C9601FE372@gmail.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 3:44 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > what might be some of the benefits a home network will see ? > In addition to the storage pooling mentioned so far (which is the feature I'm most interested in personally), the ability to do snapshots very easily should be a boon to Time Machine. Variable block sizes for efficient storage of very small files also promises benefits when storing many files that don't take up much real space (like preference files, source code, etc.) but occupy 4K on the disk regardless. This adds up very quickly. There are a handful of other less obvious benefits. The Wikipedia article is not super technical and is for the most part understandable by "power users." (My mom wouldn't get it either, Matt. :) ) There is the issue of case sensitivity. ZFS is a case-sensitive file system which will simply not work (for practical reasons) on a consumer-oriented OS. I believe there was work initiated in April to allow ZFS to work in a case-preserved manner as HFS+ does by default. I really hope this is true! I'm tired of dealing with 3 or 4 separate hard disks in my systems. :P Matt From shawnce at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 13:21:45 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Wed Jun 6 13:21:52 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> Message-ID: On 6/6/07, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:36 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: > > > > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Matt Penna wrote: > > > >> There's been speculation on this for some time, but according to a > >> Sun keynote presentation, ZFS will "become the file system in Mac > >> OS X" and this will be announced at WWDC. I assume this means it > >> will be the default, since it was already known that it was to be > >> included. > >> > >> http://www.sun.com/jsp_utils/rvideo.jsp? > >> video=74cd4547-01df-440b-823d-48878ae34c73 > >> > >> He mentions Mac OS X at around 27 minutes in. Real Player > >> required, unfortunately. > >> > >> More on ZFS for those who are unfamiliar with it: http:// > >> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zettabyte_File_System > >> > >> Seems like very positive news! > > > > > > This would assume they have a bootable version of ZFS running > > (which they could have), something Sun does not even ship yet. > > > > I am excited. I run a ZFS file server on Solaris right now > > > > Chad > > what might be some of the benefits a home network will see ? One of the most obvious and immediate benefits is that ZFS supports Time Machine much more robustly and efficiently then HFS+ can. With that said I not sure Apple would make it the default so quickly but it is possible... -Shawn From charles.dyer at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 18:07:10 2007 From: charles.dyer at gmail.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Wed Jun 6 18:07:17 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <40A7C272-3B52-488A-971C-274715F2BE5B@gmail.com> On 06 Jun 2007, at 15:48:22, Chad Leigh wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 1:44 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> >> On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:36 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: >> >>> >>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Matt Penna wrote: >>> >>>> There's been speculation on this for some time, but according to >>>> a Sun keynote presentation, ZFS will "become the file system in >>>> Mac OS X" and this will be announced at WWDC. I assume this >>>> means it will be the default, since it was already known that it >>>> was to be included. >>>> >>>> http://www.sun.com/jsp_utils/rvideo.jsp? >>>> video=74cd4547-01df-440b-823d-48878ae34c73 >>>> >>>> He mentions Mac OS X at around 27 minutes in. Real Player >>>> required, unfortunately. >>>> >>>> More on ZFS for those who are unfamiliar with it: http:// >>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zettabyte_File_System >>>> >>>> Seems like very positive news! >>> >>> >>> This would assume they have a bootable version of ZFS running >>> (which they could have), something Sun does not even ship yet. >>> >>> I am excited. I run a ZFS file server on Solaris right now >>> >>> Chad >> >> what might be some of the benefits a home network will see ? > > Well, all your disks become one volume (assuming a raidz or raidz2 > configuration). Ah... I don't know very much about ZFS, but... wouldn't doing things that way have, well, problems? 1 right now I have a (two-fifths empty) internal 250 GB drive and two (maybe two thirds full) external FireWire drives, one a 250 GB and one a 320 GB, running on my main system at all times. Because I have the system set to sleep the drives when possible, every now and again I get to wait for one or another of the drives to spin up. How does ZFS configured as One Giant Disk (in my case, One Giant 820 GB disk) handle this? Is there a problem of some type or am I worrying unnecessarily? 2 When I want to back up I plug in an additional 320 GB drive (System Backup) and a 500 GB drive (Non System Backup) and have SuperDuper! and Silverlining respectively dump files over. Would ZFS see the two backup drives as part of the One Giant Disk, now 1640 GB, or would there be Two Giant Disks, or what? How do I control this, how do I set it up, where can I find more info? I mount the backup drives and then, after backup is complete, immediately unmount and power them down 'cause I don't want my backups spinning. Would this be a problem with ZFS? 3 I've heard that ZFS needs hefty CPU power. Someone elsewhere suggested that it might require 64-bit CPUs, which, if true would eliminate any G4-based Macs... such as the eMac that's running OS X Server for my home net. Does ZFS require 64-bit CPUs? 4 How do I transfer data from HFS+ to ZFS? Preferably without buying another hard drive, She Who Must Be Obeyed is unlikely to think much of my wanting another expensive toy... I looked at , but quite a bit of that article seems to be marketing bumf. What's the real deal? I also looked at which showed some interesting stuff... but not much about moving data from existing file systems to ZFS. > And you should be able to increase the size of that volume by > adding in a new disk. No more having to worry about a boot disk > versus extra data disks and needing more space and adding it in but > now how do you move your data around or split across the new > disk... That sort of thing. Plus data integrity. Look at the > wikipedia article and google ZFS > > Chad > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From t.stockfisch at cox.net Wed Jun 6 21:37:24 2007 From: t.stockfisch at cox.net (Tom Stockfisch) Date: Wed Jun 6 21:37:31 2007 Subject: Parallels and printing Message-ID: I just installed parallels and Windows XP on my MacBook Pro. The parallels is very nice. However, printiing is now a problem. I need to print a document from Word running in the Windows VM. But Windows can't find the printer. Parallels suggests using a network printer. But I have only the MacBook Pro. Does anyone have a nice clean low effort solution? The printer is an HP LaserJet 3050, and of course I don't want to mess up my nice printer interface under MacOSX. From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Jun 6 21:49:43 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Wed Jun 6 21:49:53 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <40A7C272-3B52-488A-971C-274715F2BE5B@gmail.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> <40A7C272-3B52-488A-971C-274715F2BE5B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <283EEF08-AD9A-4727-B235-F8C2F9D1957E@objectwerks.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 7:07 PM, Charles Dyer wrote: > On 06 Jun 2007, at 15:48:22, Chad Leigh wrote: > >> >> On Jun 6, 2007, at 1:44 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: >> >>> >>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:36 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Matt Penna wrote: >>>> >>>>> There's been speculation on this for some time, but according >>>>> to a Sun keynote presentation, ZFS will "become the file system >>>>> in Mac OS X" and this will be announced at WWDC. I assume this >>>>> means it will be the default, since it was already known that >>>>> it was to be included. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.sun.com/jsp_utils/rvideo.jsp? >>>>> video=74cd4547-01df-440b-823d-48878ae34c73 >>>>> >>>>> He mentions Mac OS X at around 27 minutes in. Real Player >>>>> required, unfortunately. >>>>> >>>>> More on ZFS for those who are unfamiliar with it: http:// >>>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zettabyte_File_System >>>>> >>>>> Seems like very positive news! >>>> >>>> >>>> This would assume they have a bootable version of ZFS running >>>> (which they could have), something Sun does not even ship yet. >>>> >>>> I am excited. I run a ZFS file server on Solaris right now >>>> >>>> Chad >>> >>> what might be some of the benefits a home network will see ? >> >> Well, all your disks become one volume (assuming a raidz or raidz2 >> configuration). > > Ah... I don't know very much about ZFS, but... wouldn't doing > things that way have, well, problems? no (see below) > > 1 right now I have a (two-fifths empty) internal 250 GB drive and > two (maybe two thirds full) external FireWire drives, one a 250 GB > and one a 320 GB, running on my main system at all times. Because I > have the system set to sleep the drives when possible, every now > and again I get to wait for one or another of the drives to spin > up. How does ZFS configured as One Giant Disk (in my case, One > Giant 820 GB disk) handle this? Is there a problem of some type or > am I worrying unnecessarily? worrying uncecessarily. The devices are still independent at the low level driver level and will work like they do now. AND (this also covers stuff below) -- you do not HAVE to make just one big disk with ZFS. That is just one of its advantages. You have control (I am speaking from Solaris ZFS experience -- I have no knowledge on what Apple is doing). However, to get the integrity benefits from ZFS requires multiple drives. > > 2 When I want to back up I plug in an additional 320 GB drive > (System Backup) and a 500 GB drive (Non System Backup) and have > SuperDuper! and Silverlining respectively dump files over. Would > ZFS see the two backup drives as part of the One Giant Disk, now > 1640 GB, or would there be Two Giant Disks, or what? How do I > control this, how do I set it up, where can I find more info? I > mount the backup drives and then, after backup is complete, > immediately unmount and power them down 'cause I don't want my > backups spinning. Would this be a problem with ZFS? NO as you woujld not add these drives to the ZFS pools that represent you One Giant Disk. You should be able to set up the disks in whatever ways you want. I assume Apple has default things and nice GIUs to make it work. > > 3 I've heard that ZFS needs hefty CPU power. Someone elsewhere > suggested that it might require 64-bit CPUs, which, if true would > eliminate any G4-based Macs... such as the eMac that's running OS X > Server for my home net. Does ZFS require 64-bit CPUs? no but on Solaris they limit 32bit CPU machines in terms of various buffers and things (I don't know all the details). > > 4 How do I transfer data from HFS+ to ZFS? Preferably without > buying another hard drive, She Who Must Be Obeyed is unlikely to > think much of my wanting another expensive toy... Probably just leave your existing stuff at HFS. > > I looked at , but quite a > bit of that article seems to be marketing bumf. What's the real > deal? I also looked at demos/basics/> which showed some interesting stuff... but not much > about moving data from existing file systems to ZFS. Google ZFS can provide interesting stuff. ZFS is mostly interesting on new HW where you have multiple disks you can raidZ together and get data integrity etc. You can run it on multiple volumes but it cannot self correct etc. I currently run it on a single RAID6 backed (HW raid) volume with the intent to add another RAID6 backed volume and make a ZFS mirror out of it. Need time to get it all together tough. (On Solaris) Chad > >> And you should be able to increase the size of that volume by >> adding in a new disk. No more having to worry about a boot disk >> versus extra data disks and needing more space and adding it in >> but now how do you move your data around or split across the new >> disk... That sort of thing. Plus data integrity. Look at the >> wikipedia article and google ZFS >> >> Chad >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From matthew.penna at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 21:57:43 2007 From: matthew.penna at gmail.com (Matt Penna) Date: Wed Jun 6 21:57:48 2007 Subject: Parallels and printing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34742A21-7206-4287-BF4A-8ED388604E7D@gmail.com> On Jun 7, 2007, at 12:37 AM, Tom Stockfisch wrote: > I just installed parallels and Windows XP on my MacBook Pro. > The parallels is very nice. However, printiing is now a problem. > I need to print a document from Word running in the Windows VM. > But Windows can't find the printer. Parallels suggests using a > network > printer. But I have only the MacBook Pro. Does anyone have a nice > clean low effort solution? > The printer is an HP LaserJet 3050, and of course I don't want to mess > up my nice printer interface under MacOSX. Tom, Unless I'm misunderstanding you, all you should need to do is enable the USB device so Parallels allows Windows to see it. Simply click the USB icon at the bottom right of the VM window and place a check mark next to your printer in the list that pops up. (You can also do this from the Devices menu.) This will allow Windows to see the printer and then you can install drivers as you would normally. Matt From abridge at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 22:27:58 2007 From: abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge) Date: Wed Jun 6 22:28:01 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <283EEF08-AD9A-4727-B235-F8C2F9D1957E@objectwerks.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> <40A7C272-3B52-488A-971C-274715F2BE5B@gmail.com> <283EEF08-AD9A-4727-B235-F8C2F9D1957E@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <4cfa589b0706062227v756ade67h7d1fe4bd1d705703@mail.gmail.com> The thought of making the conversion to ZFS from HFS makes me shudder. It must really be useful only for new hardward or one in which you can start from a virgin disk already formatted with ZFS. This is accurate? I appreciate the insight into why this file system is valuable - and if it IS a part of Leopard then I understand why having it available for developers to do some serious banging on in advance of the release would make a fall release a Good Thing. Are there consequences for the handling of metadata as a result of the file system change that a new Finder might make good use of (not to mention, say, Spotlight, etc) Adam From kcall at mac.com Wed Jun 6 22:37:33 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Wed Jun 6 22:37:37 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <4cfa589b0706062227v756ade67h7d1fe4bd1d705703@mail.gmail.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> <40A7C272-3B52-488A-971C-274715F2BE5B@gmail.com> <283EEF08-AD9A-4727-B235-F8C2F9D1957E@objectwerks.com> <4cfa589b0706062227v756ade67h7d1fe4bd1d705703@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7C739E21-FF62-400B-895C-7BB1905055F5@mac.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 10:27 PM, Adam Bridge wrote: > new Finder :-) From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Jun 6 23:01:27 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Wed Jun 6 23:01:36 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <4cfa589b0706062227v756ade67h7d1fe4bd1d705703@mail.gmail.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> <40A7C272-3B52-488A-971C-274715F2BE5B@gmail.com> <283EEF08-AD9A-4727-B235-F8C2F9D1957E@objectwerks.com> <4cfa589b0706062227v756ade67h7d1fe4bd1d705703@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jun 6, 2007, at 11:27 PM, Adam Bridge wrote: > The thought of making the conversion to ZFS from HFS makes me shudder. > It must really be useful only for new hardward or one in which you can > start from a virgin disk already formatted with ZFS. > > This is accurate? That is probably easiest. > > I appreciate the insight into why this file system is valuable - and > if it IS a part of Leopard then I understand why having it available > for developers to do some serious banging on in advance of the release > would make a fall release a Good Thing. > > Are there consequences for the handling of metadata as a result of the > file system change that a new Finder might make good use of (not to > mention, say, Spotlight, etc) I don't know as I am not up to speed on meta data handling etc on ZFS, though I believe it handles arbitrary meta data. -- In looking at the MacPro, I think they were designed with ZFS in mind -- lots of drive bays which let you use the power of ZFS better. Chad From andrew.brown at c18.net Wed Jun 6 23:15:06 2007 From: andrew.brown at c18.net (Andrew Brown) Date: Wed Jun 6 23:15:12 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <34A63DB4-0B34-4256-BF2D-C182390B34C2@c18.net> > More on ZFS for those who are unfamiliar with it: http:// > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zettabyte_File_System > > Seems like very positive news! Yes, indeed, and I was particularly relieved to see that "Fully populating a 128-bit storage pool would, literally, require more energy than boiling the oceans." I have been worrying about this for some time now. AB From kremels at kreme.com Wed Jun 6 23:47:55 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Wed Jun 6 23:48:42 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> Message-ID: <0CA78F03-74A9-408F-BDB9-716A9DAADB2F@kreme.com> On 6-Jun-2007, at 13:44, Kevin Callahan wrote: > what might be some of the benefits a home network will see ? Well, imagine that your 4 local discs (two internal, two external) and your 3 network mounts all showed up as a single disk on your machine. Well, it's possible. Bring home a new drive, plug it in, and your single disk just got bigger. That's it, done. -- Your letters they all say that you're beside me now. Then why do I feel alone? I'm standing on a ledge and your fine spider web is fastening my ankle to a stone. From kremels at kreme.com Wed Jun 6 23:52:13 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Wed Jun 6 23:52:51 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <40A7C272-3B52-488A-971C-274715F2BE5B@gmail.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> <40A7C272-3B52-488A-971C-274715F2BE5B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6385A258-275D-473F-80B6-B2F6A7EE157A@kreme.com> On 6-Jun-2007, at 19:07, Charles Dyer wrote: > (in my case, One Giant 820 GB disk) Bwahahahah, piddly little 820GB pool described as HUGE! Bwahahahaha! Er, sorry. > 2 When I want to back up I plug in an additional 320 GB drive > (System Backup) and a 500 GB drive (Non System Backup) and have > SuperDuper! and Silverlining respectively dump files over. Would > ZFS see the two backup drives as part of the One Giant Disk, now > 1640 GB, or would there be Two Giant Disks, or what? Depends on what you tell it to do. It does HAVE to add drives to a pool. > How do I control this, how do I set it up, where can I find more info? Details will be coming in October. Leaks may be coming next week. > 3 I've heard that ZFS needs hefty CPU power. it's 128 bit addressing. > Someone elsewhere suggested that it might require 64-bit CPUs er... somewho where? -- Love seekest only self to please, to bind another to its delight Joys in another's loss of ease And builds a hell in Heaven's despite! From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Jun 7 00:18:35 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Thu Jun 7 00:18:44 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <6385A258-275D-473F-80B6-B2F6A7EE157A@kreme.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> <40A7C272-3B52-488A-971C-274715F2BE5B@gmail.com> <6385A258-275D-473F-80B6-B2F6A7EE157A@kreme.com> Message-ID: On Jun 7, 2007, at 12:52 AM, LuKreme wrote: > On 6-Jun-2007, at 19:07, Charles Dyer wrote: > >> How do I control this, how do I set it up, where can I find more >> info? > > Details will be coming in October. Leaks may be coming next week. the keynote is not under NDA according to the attendee info I got so details may be coming next week without leaks. Chad From charles.dyer at gmail.com Thu Jun 7 04:12:03 2007 From: charles.dyer at gmail.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Jun 7 04:12:08 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <6385A258-275D-473F-80B6-B2F6A7EE157A@kreme.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> <40A7C272-3B52-488A-971C-274715F2BE5B@gmail.com> <6385A258-275D-473F-80B6-B2F6A7EE157A@kreme.com> Message-ID: <69A4D84E-1011-4465-A570-E7164EEF3737@gmail.com> On 07 Jun 2007, at 02:52:13, LuKreme wrote: > On 6-Jun-2007, at 19:07, Charles Dyer wrote: >> (in my case, One Giant 820 GB disk) > > Bwahahahah, piddly little 820GB pool described as HUGE! Bwahahahaha! Be nice, I'm in deepest Florida, where the nearest civilisation is Atlanta. Things move slow here in the backwoods. > > Er, sorry. Forgiven. This time. > >> 2 When I want to back up I plug in an additional 320 GB drive >> (System Backup) and a 500 GB drive (Non System Backup) and have >> SuperDuper! and Silverlining respectively dump files over. Would >> ZFS see the two backup drives as part of the One Giant Disk, now >> 1640 GB, or would there be Two Giant Disks, or what? > > Depends on what you tell it to do. It does HAVE to add drives to a > pool. I'd just _love_ there to be Two Giant Disks which were set to have the second one automatically mirror the first. Instant backup. > >> How do I control this, how do I set it up, where can I find more >> info? > > Details will be coming in October. Leaks may be coming next week. That'll be interesting. > >> 3 I've heard that ZFS needs hefty CPU power. > > it's 128 bit addressing. Yep. > >> Someone elsewhere suggested that it might require 64-bit CPUs > > er... somewho where? In that deep, deep, deep swamp (and we know about swamps in Florida...) of misinformation known as USENET. Which is one reason why I'd like someone who actually knows what's what to to produce actual info. Let's just say that I'm not particularly confident in using USENET as a primary source. From winter at mac.com Thu Jun 7 06:13:16 2007 From: winter at mac.com (Michael Winter) Date: Thu Jun 7 06:11:14 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <0CA78F03-74A9-408F-BDB9-716A9DAADB2F@kreme.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <0CA78F03-74A9-408F-BDB9-716A9DAADB2F@kreme.com> Message-ID: <11DDA60B-31A2-4CBE-B34E-F99C98472727@mac.com> > Bring home a new drive, plug it in, and your single disk just got > bigger. That's it, done. That's all good, but raises another question. What happens when one of those drives goes bad? Or, along similar lines, what happens if you're using a Firewire drive in this manner and it suddenly goes missing (unplugged, driver trouble...)? -Mike From AD at andrewdarlow.com Thu Jun 7 06:36:40 2007 From: AD at andrewdarlow.com (Andrew Darlow) Date: Thu Jun 7 06:53:21 2007 Subject: dot Mac mail sync question In-Reply-To: References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <75460948-3048-49A3-9B2A-73016596FDFA@andrewdarlow.com> Hello: I don't use .Mac but I recently did some consulting and was able to upload a client's syncable data (mail, address book, bookmarks, etc) to .Mac from her main computer, and then from .Mac to two of her laptops. The problem I'm having is how to also transfer her mailboxes. (not smart mailboxes). These are additional mailboxes that sit in the Mail folder but don't automatically sync. Do I just copy the mail folders to the mail folders on the other computers? I can't find a way for them to sync. Would I have to copy all the contents from the folders to the mail mail folder for them to sync? Or maybe I'm just overlooking something. Thanks for any help, Andrew Darlow --------------------------------------------------- Andrew Darlow Editor, The Imaging Buffet http://www.imagingbuffet.com From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Jun 7 07:54:16 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Thu Jun 7 07:54:41 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <11DDA60B-31A2-4CBE-B34E-F99C98472727@mac.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <0CA78F03-74A9-408F-BDB9-716A9DAADB2F@kreme.com> <11DDA60B-31A2-4CBE-B34E-F99C98472727@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jun 7, 2007, at 7:13 AM, Michael Winter wrote: >> Bring home a new drive, plug it in, and your single disk just got >> bigger. That's it, done. > > That's all good, but raises another question. What happens when one > of those drives goes bad? > > Or, along similar lines, what happens if you're using a Firewire > drive in this manner and it suddenly goes missing (unplugged, > driver trouble...)? Well, I would not create One Giant Disk with media I am removing, so my further comments will talk only about the case where a disk goes bad or something. While it is possible to use ZFS on a single disk, the ideal and most useful way is when you have multiple disks. You can either create a mirror or a raidZ or raidZ2 (kind of like a raid 5 or 6). So if a disk goes missing it deals with it until you fix it. Hopefully with some nifty Apple GUI. ZFS also does block checksumming and various things to guarantee data integrity and fixes things that go bad automagically for you when you have a bad block or otherwise have on-disk corruption or transitory corruption or whatever. That is why they said "no more fsck" as your on disk structure does not go bad due to this. -- I will mention this again since no one has yet commented on it. The Mac Pro enclosure seems to have been designed knowing ZFS would be coming with all the expandable in-built drive bays for internal disks... Chad not and expert but have been using it a little on a Solaris file server in testing From bentley at crenelle.com Thu Jun 7 08:29:50 2007 From: bentley at crenelle.com (Michael Brian Bentley) Date: Thu Jun 7 08:30:11 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <0CA78F03-74A9-408F-BDB9-716A9DAADB2F@kreme.com> <11DDA60B-31A2-4CBE-B34E-F99C98472727@mac.com> Message-ID: If they choose to deploy with ZFS, I expect ZFS to be the default option for new installs and what will show up on the disks of new machines from the Apple store. I would not expect it to forcibly install ZFS when you update an OS from 10.4 to 10.5, and I would expect the old FS to be an option. Some new things just won't work with the old file system, s'all. I don't expect Apple to provide a backup drive with every copy of Leopard. I also don't expect Apple to develop a "standing-still migration mode" where, once Leopard is installed, it proceeds to convert a an existing Mac OS Extended file system on a drive or drives into a ZFS file system on the fly while you're using the machine or while the machine is idle. That'd be cool just to see it done, tho my hair stands on end just thinking about using it. File under "wouldn't it be great if it did this and it just worked?" I think revision disk recovery packages as it is have to check to see what file system is on a drive before they go and try to fix it, so I don't think old versions will be dangerous to try and use on Leopard systems for that reason. From kcall at mac.com Thu Jun 7 09:43:08 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Jun 7 09:43:47 2007 Subject: dot Mac mail sync question In-Reply-To: <75460948-3048-49A3-9B2A-73016596FDFA@andrewdarlow.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <75460948-3048-49A3-9B2A-73016596FDFA@andrewdarlow.com> Message-ID: <1365CFFF-05C3-4E21-82C2-B973A231EC8B@mac.com> On Jun 7, 2007, at 6:36 AM, Andrew Darlow wrote: > Hello: > > I don't use .Mac but I recently did some consulting and was able to > upload a client's syncable data (mail, address book, bookmarks, > etc) to .Mac from her main computer, and then from .Mac to two of > her laptops. > > The problem I'm having is how to also transfer her mailboxes. (not > smart mailboxes). These are additional mailboxes that sit in the > Mail folder but don't automatically sync. Do I just copy the mail > folders to the mail folders on the other computers? I think you should use File -> Import Mailboxes... Kevin Callahan http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html > > I can't find a way for them to sync. Would I have to copy all the > contents from the folders to the mail mail folder for them to sync? > > Or maybe I'm just overlooking something. > > Thanks for any help, > > Andrew Darlow From kremels at kreme.com Thu Jun 7 13:33:51 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Jun 7 13:34:40 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <4cfa589b0706062227v756ade67h7d1fe4bd1d705703@mail.gmail.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> <40A7C272-3B52-488A-971C-274715F2BE5B@gmail.com> <283EEF08-AD9A-4727-B235-F8C2F9D1957E@objectwerks.com> <4cfa589b0706062227v756ade67h7d1fe4bd1d705703@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7156D88D-5088-4B49-8D90-1C23BF78D3B3@kreme.com> On 6-Jun-2007, at 23:27, Adam Bridge wrote: > The thought of making the conversion to ZFS from HFS makes me shudder. > It must really be useful only for new hardward or one in which you can > start from a virgin disk already formatted with ZFS. Well, it's probably MOST advantageous if you as starting clean beacuse you don't have to shuffle mounds of data. Here's my plan, tentative, of course. I will be adding 2x500 (or maybe even 2x750) SATA drives to my system. I will make them a ZFS Pool. and install Leopard on them, copying over my $HOME data. I will start migrating all the video and mp3s off the 400GB and 250GB SATA drives, and once each is empty, I will add it into the ZFS pool. My 500GB external will NOT be part of the pool and neither will me 320GB external, which I currently move between my machine and the 'family' computer when I need to move lots- o-data. I will end up with a ZFS pool of 4 SATA drives and a non-zfs 500GB USB3 which will probably hold a copy of /Users/ and my iTunes library (mp3 m4a m4b and m4p only, no video). > Are there consequences for the handling of metadata as a result of the > file system change that a new Finder might make good use of (not to > mention, say, Spotlight, etc) I think the biggest issue, and it's not a very big one, is that ZFS is case sensitive as I understand it, so going forward OS X will be case sensitive at least at the terminal level. Not sure how the Finder is going to deal, but I am still hoping Leopard will not have a Finder.app as we currently understand it. -- RTFM replies are great, but please specify exactly which FM to R From kcall at mac.com Thu Jun 7 13:45:36 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Jun 7 13:46:18 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <7156D88D-5088-4B49-8D90-1C23BF78D3B3@kreme.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> <40A7C272-3B52-488A-971C-274715F2BE5B@gmail.com> <283EEF08-AD9A-4727-B235-F8C2F9D1957E@objectwerks.com> <4cfa589b0706062227v756ade67h7d1fe4bd1d705703@mail.gmail.com> <7156D88D-5088-4B49-8D90-1C23BF78D3B3@kreme.com> Message-ID: <85C05DE8-32D1-4C08-A34F-EEA8969B160F@mac.com> On Jun 7, 2007, at 1:33 PM, LuKreme wrote: > Not sure how the Finder is going to deal, but I am still hoping > Leopard will not have a Finder.app as we currently understand it. :-) From henry at trilithon.com Thu Jun 7 13:54:41 2007 From: henry at trilithon.com (Henry McGilton) Date: Thu Jun 7 13:54:59 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <7156D88D-5088-4B49-8D90-1C23BF78D3B3@kreme.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <4460578F-F041-4454-A4CE-7123C1904DC3@objectwerks.com> <40A7C272-3B52-488A-971C-274715F2BE5B@gmail.com> <283EEF08-AD9A-4727-B235-F8C2F9D1957E@objectwerks.com> <4cfa589b0706062227v756ade67h7d1fe4bd1d705703@mail.gmail.com> <7156D88D-5088-4B49-8D90-1C23BF78D3B3@kreme.com> Message-ID: On Jun 7, 2007, at 1:33 PM, LuKreme wrote: > I think the biggest issue, and it's not a very big one, is that ZFS > is case sensitive as I understand it, so going forward OS X will be > case sensitive at least at the terminal level. Not sure how the > Finder is going to deal, but I am still hoping Leopard will not > have a Finder.app as we currently understand it. I know that PhotoShop CS3 beta got its knickers in a major twist when I formatted my startup disk for case sensitive. I don't know if they fixed it in CS3 release . . . Cheers, ........ Henry ===============================+============================ Henry McGilton, Boulevardier | Trilithon Software Objective-C/Java Composer | Seroia Research -------------------------------+---------------------------- mailto:henry@trilithon.com | http://www.trilithon.com | ===============================+============================ From kremels at kreme.com Thu Jun 7 13:59:49 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Jun 7 14:00:31 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <11DDA60B-31A2-4CBE-B34E-F99C98472727@mac.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <0CA78F03-74A9-408F-BDB9-716A9DAADB2F@kreme.com> <11DDA60B-31A2-4CBE-B34E-F99C98472727@mac.com> Message-ID: On 7-Jun-2007, at 07:13, Michael Winter wrote: >> Bring home a new drive, plug it in, and your single disk just got >> bigger. That's it, done. > > That's all good, but raises another question. What happens when one > of those drives goes bad? You zoom back with Time machine and recover those lost files. > Or, along similar lines, what happens if you're using a Firewire > drive in this manner and it suddenly goes missing (unplugged, > driver trouble...)? Er.. you probably shouldn't use it with a drive that might be removed. -- In other news, Gandalf died. -- Secret Diary of Boromir From phil at dizm.com Thu Jun 7 06:19:44 2007 From: phil at dizm.com (Phil Larson) Date: Thu Jun 7 14:24:01 2007 Subject: ZFS to become default file system in OS X? In-Reply-To: <11DDA60B-31A2-4CBE-B34E-F99C98472727@mac.com> References: <35217863-7C5D-410C-A731-FB2F5DD2C4C2@gmail.com> <144E37F5-47D0-4B55-A5D9-038C05C77E8A@mac.com> <0CA78F03-74A9-408F-BDB9-716A9DAADB2F@kreme.com> <11DDA60B-31A2-4CBE-B34E-F99C98472727@mac.com> Message-ID: <39482EF9-C417-4106-A631-F2C01DAE4A1E@dizm.com> On Jun 7, 2007, at 6:13 AM, Michael Winter wrote: >> Bring home a new drive, plug it in, and your single disk just got >> bigger. That's it, done. > > That's all good, but raises another question. What happens when one > of those drives goes bad? > > Or, along similar lines, what happens if you're using a Firewire > drive in this manner and it suddenly goes missing (unplugged, > driver trouble...)? I suppose you end up with the same result as having your ONLY drive go bad. I don't think there's anyway they're going to make adding a new disk increase the primary pool's size by default. It's going to be something in Disk Utility. Backups are still and always have been your problem. Phil From kremels at kreme.com Thu Jun 7 16:30:28 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Jun 7 16:31:13 2007 Subject: folder action script .ics -> iCal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4-Jun-2007, at 12:55, Michael Brian Bentley wrote: > Does anyone offhand know of a folder action script to grab any .ics > file that comes by (say from an email package that deposits > the .ics file in that folder) and uses it to update the iCal calendar? Um, doesn't Mail.app do that automatically? (Preferences -> General) -- if you ever get that chimp of your back, if you ever find the thing you lack, ah but you know you're only having a laugh. Oh, oh here we go again -- until the end. From bentley at crenelle.com Thu Jun 7 18:31:01 2007 From: bentley at crenelle.com (Michael Brian Bentley) Date: Thu Jun 7 19:25:58 2007 Subject: folder action script .ics -> iCal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Um, doesn't Mail.app do that automatically? (Preferences -> General) I expect so. Mail's specific implementation doesn't solve this particular problem. From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Fri Jun 8 00:18:17 2007 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Fri Jun 8 00:18:29 2007 Subject: Sleepimage and swap files on Intel Macs - separate partition, fragmentation, and why necessary?, HFS+ generally Message-ID: <066E6D79-5029-4C08-B992-3B04572A73F7@bloomington.in.us> About the about 1GB of compressed sleepImage and swapFile (and other) files that are left in var/vm/ when an Intel mac (at least a MacBook) is put to sleep: why are they necessary (is there something about how the Intel chip/Intel bus goes to sleep that makes it impossible to just "keep the memory system powered", and just store the registers somewhere (being naive here I know..), as I think happened with PPC - it didn't write out 1GB files I don't think.. Secondly, could that directory (/var/vm) be sym-linked or hard- linked to a separate partition of say 3-5GB to avoid fragmentation (or IS there a frag problem, as I assume the file is almost always the same size, and the O just overwrites the old one each time.. Or if HFS+ simply doesn't *have* frag problems.. I'm told it doesn't, or it essentially *always* does as it shifts pieces of files around as they are used more or less - I'm definitely not an expert on FS's. Personally I find it hard to believe somehow that there would be *no* benefit from simply wiping the disk, reinstalling the OS from scratch, then reinstalling most used apps and constant data files first. But, with prebinding going on whenever a new app is installed, that "defragged" state might be impossible to maintain. Jim From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Fri Jun 8 00:28:23 2007 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Fri Jun 8 00:28:29 2007 Subject: iRemote patent.. prior art in TV/etc/programmable remotes? Message-ID: <996B7144-1F17-48A7-8B75-2C030678A520@bloomington.in.us> On Apr 13, 2007, at 7:45 PM, LuKreme wrote: > >> Apple has filed for a patent titled "Techniques for pairing remote >> controllers with host devices" that mentions using a "mobile >> phone" to serve as a remote controller for a Mac computer. Geez, they can *patent* that? Isn't basically any TV/etc remote (and certainly programmable ones - that will either learn codes, or where you type them in) be "prior art" for this kind of thing? Of course, if Apple doesn't patent it, and it's actually patentable, then Im sure MS would (if they don't *already* have some patent(s) that might conflict..) Although, the 'pairing' function might be new.. This is *almost* as bad as "one click". Okay - one click was MUCH worse in terms of silliness, but still. Jim From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Fri Jun 8 00:30:00 2007 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Fri Jun 8 00:30:10 2007 Subject: Bluetooth pairing behavior not working? (Intel iMac 1st gen, 10.4.8) Message-ID: Hi, Is the exact way the pairing behavior works specified in the Bluetooth spec anywhere? I've noticed that mouse paring at least on the Intel iMac (first gen) doesn't always seem to work - it won't pick up a connection after sleep sometimes - or even when it's "looking for mice" and the mouse is on, and has had it's reset button pressed so should be sending out signals. And it's annoying that almost ANY little knock on the mouse will wake the computer (if set). I know, a mouse move is SUPPOSED to do that, but how do you deal with cats on your table then? "Blutooth-Enabled Shock Collars" (TM - not yet patented, but will be as soon once I get about 6 grand and hire an army of lawyers at a grand a piece..) Jim From andyring at inebraska.com Fri Jun 8 05:56:19 2007 From: andyring at inebraska.com (Andy Ringsmuth) Date: Fri Jun 8 05:56:38 2007 Subject: iRemote patent.. prior art in TV/etc/programmable remotes? In-Reply-To: <996B7144-1F17-48A7-8B75-2C030678A520@bloomington.in.us> References: <996B7144-1F17-48A7-8B75-2C030678A520@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: >> >>> Apple has filed for a patent titled "Techniques for pairing >>> remote controllers with host devices" that mentions using a >>> "mobile phone" to serve as a remote controller for a Mac computer. > > Geez, they can *patent* that? Isn't basically any TV/etc remote > (and certainly programmable ones - that will either learn codes, or > where you type them in) be "prior art" for this kind of thing? > > Of course, if Apple doesn't patent it, and it's actually > patentable, then Im sure MS would (if they don't *already* have > some patent(s) that might conflict..) > > Although, the 'pairing' function might be new.. > > This is *almost* as bad as "one click". Okay - one click was > MUCH worse in terms of silliness, but still. I think it's specifically related to pairing the devices. I think that would be a legitimate patent, honestly. I'm well aware of the abuses of the patent system, however this one seems more unique. The idea of pairing a remote and a host device is one that I like. Here's my scenario - I've got an AppleTV and a MacBook. If I grab my AppleTV remote to change a song, etc., pushing buttons affects both the AppleTV and the laptop. I have to hold my finger over the IR receiver on the laptop while I change songs on the AppleTV. Pairing the remotes so that identical remotes will work only with a specific device sounds like a great idea to me, and a patentable one at that. -Andy From kremels at kreme.com Fri Jun 8 06:58:28 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Fri Jun 8 06:58:34 2007 Subject: Sleepimage and swap files on Intel Macs - separate partition, fragmentation, and why necessary?, HFS+ generally In-Reply-To: <066E6D79-5029-4C08-B992-3B04572A73F7@bloomington.in.us> References: <066E6D79-5029-4C08-B992-3B04572A73F7@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: On 8-Jun-2007, at 01:18, Jim Witte wrote: > About the about 1GB of compressed sleepImage and swapFile (and > other) files that are left in var/vm/ when an Intel mac (at least a > MacBook) is put to sleep: why are they necessary The swap files are necessary because that is how OS X manages memory. the Imagefile is there so that the machine can be TURNED OFF in sleep mode and the contents of RAM restored. This is called Safe- sleep and it is insanely cool. > Secondly, could that directory (/var/vm) be sym-linked or hard- > linked to a separate partition of say 3-5GB to avoid fragmentation Yes, but it's pointless. > (or IS there a frag problem, Nope. There really aren't fragmentation issues in OS X period. -- "I used to hate the sun, because it'd shone on everything I'd done. Made me feel that all that I had done was overfill the ashtray of my life." From kremels at kreme.com Fri Jun 8 07:00:52 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Fri Jun 8 07:00:56 2007 Subject: iRemote patent.. prior art in TV/etc/programmable remotes? In-Reply-To: <996B7144-1F17-48A7-8B75-2C030678A520@bloomington.in.us> References: <996B7144-1F17-48A7-8B75-2C030678A520@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: <239523EC-5B77-41E2-BB08-99F9AFFD3675@kreme.com> On 8-Jun-2007, at 01:28, Jim Witte wrote: > On Apr 13, 2007, at 7:45 PM, LuKreme wrote: >> >>> Apple has filed for a patent titled "Techniques for pairing >>> remote controllers with host devices" that mentions using a >>> "mobile phone" to serve as a remote controller for a Mac computer. > > Geez, they can *patent* that? Isn't basically any TV/etc remote > (and certainly programmable ones - that will either learn codes, or > where you type them in) be "prior art" for this kind of thing? Nope, because it's specifically talking about pairing a mobile phone to a computer to use it as a remote. Now, I think maybe Sailing clicker and Romeo might be prior art... but then I am not a patent liar. -- ...in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on From mrhatken at mac.com Fri Jun 8 08:04:39 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Fri Jun 8 08:05:22 2007 Subject: Sleepimage and swap files on Intel Macs - separate partition, fragmentation, and why necessary?, HFS+ generally In-Reply-To: References: <066E6D79-5029-4C08-B992-3B04572A73F7@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: <7F8945C5-600F-4A45-B9B4-CC2275E44F01@mac.com> On 08/06/2007, at 9:58 PM, LuKreme wrote: > the Imagefile is there so that the machine can be TURNED OFF in > sleep mode and the contents of RAM restored. This is called Safe- > sleep and it is insanely cool. I'm not sure it is "insanely cool" - I believe it's been the default in Windows (hibernate) since they had their "sleep" mode. MacOSX's Risky-sleep was way cooler (because it was faster) in my opinion. But that's not important. The question I have is: is Safe-sleep now the default on Intel machines? Or does it do a Risky-sleep and Safe- sleep at the same time (just in-case the battery goes dead)? Cheers, Ashley. > Nope. There really aren't fragmentation issues in OS X period. PS Isn't that "period" a little redundant? -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!) From kremels at kreme.com Fri Jun 8 09:14:34 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Fri Jun 8 09:14:38 2007 Subject: Sleepimage and swap files on Intel Macs - separate partition, fragmentation, and why necessary?, HFS+ generally In-Reply-To: <7F8945C5-600F-4A45-B9B4-CC2275E44F01@mac.com> References: <066E6D79-5029-4C08-B992-3B04572A73F7@bloomington.in.us> <7F8945C5-600F-4A45-B9B4-CC2275E44F01@mac.com> Message-ID: <8BC76BA0-0BE3-4CDD-8B0A-99E38B3928B5@kreme.com> On 8-Jun-2007, at 09:04, Ashley Aitken wrote: > On 08/06/2007, at 9:58 PM, LuKreme wrote: > >> the Imagefile is there so that the machine can be TURNED OFF in >> sleep mode and the contents of RAM restored. This is called Safe- >> sleep and it is insanely cool. > > I'm not sure it is "insanely cool" - I believe it's been the > default in Windows (hibernate) since they had their "sleep" mode. > MacOSX's Risky-sleep was way cooler (because it was faster) in my > opinion. Being able to swap batteries while the machine is sleeping is quite cool. Being able to sleep the machine, have it drain the entire battery, and have everything you were working on still there when you finally hook back up to mains is just insanely cool. > But that's not important. The question I have is: is Safe-sleep > now the default on Intel machines? I think it is the default on Laptops, but the machine still sleeps normally (that is, it doesn't use the ImageFile unless it loses power) for faster wake-up time. > Or does it do a Risky-sleep and Safe-sleep at the same time (just > in-case the battery goes dead)? Yeah, think that's it. >> Nope. There really aren't fragmentation issues in OS X period. > > PS Isn't that "period" a little redundant? Well, he was asking about the vm files specifically, and I was answering about the whole system in general, so I don't think it was too excessively repetitively redundant. YMMV, IMHO, IANAL, UAYOR, etc. -- "Woof bloody woof." From kcall at mac.com Fri Jun 8 10:08:16 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Jun 8 10:08:56 2007 Subject: iRemote patent.. prior art in TV/etc/programmable remotes? In-Reply-To: <239523EC-5B77-41E2-BB08-99F9AFFD3675@kreme.com> References: <996B7144-1F17-48A7-8B75-2C030678A520@bloomington.in.us> <239523EC-5B77-41E2-BB08-99F9AFFD3675@kreme.com> Message-ID: <147DB287-E17A-45F8-AA07-2F5CFFCDEFF3@mac.com> On Jun 8, 2007, at 7:00 AM, LuKreme wrote: > On 8-Jun-2007, at 01:28, Jim Witte wrote: >> On Apr 13, 2007, at 7:45 PM, LuKreme wrote: >>> >>>> Apple has filed for a patent titled "Techniques for pairing >>>> remote controllers with host devices" that mentions using a >>>> "mobile phone" to serve as a remote controller for a Mac computer. >> >> Geez, they can *patent* that? Isn't basically any TV/etc remote >> (and certainly programmable ones - that will either learn codes, >> or where you type them in) be "prior art" for this kind of thing? > > Nope, because it's specifically talking about pairing a mobile > phone to a computer to use it as a remote. > > Now, I think maybe Sailing clicker and Romeo might be prior art... > but then I am not a patent liar. LOL :-) From kremels at kreme.com Fri Jun 8 18:00:33 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Fri Jun 8 18:00:44 2007 Subject: MacTech Top 25 Message-ID: For those of you who missed it, the MacTech magazine Top 25 came out this week and out own moderator emeritus Scott Stevenson is named as one of the top 25 most influential people in the Macintosh community, putting him in the same unranked list as Adamn and Tonya Engst, Andrew Welch, Andy Ihnatko, Glenn Fleishman, Joe Kissel, Matt Neuberg, Ted Landau, Wil Shipley, and other. Congratulations. How much did the ballot stuffing cost you? (Just kidding, well deserved) BTW, Chris Forsythe (Adium and Growl) and David "I write a book a week" Pogue only rated Honourable mentions. -- The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a young woman. There was no possible way that she could have been mistaken for a young man in any language, especially Braille. From kcall at mac.com Fri Jun 8 18:13:15 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Jun 8 18:13:19 2007 Subject: MacTech Top 25 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93CC7A1B-9CDA-4056-8F5C-706EEAAE7363@mac.com> On Jun 8, 2007, at 6:00 PM, LuKreme wrote: > For those of you who missed it, the MacTech magazine Top 25 came > out this week and out own moderator emeritus Scott Stevenson is > named as one of the top 25 most influential people in the Macintosh > community, putting him in the same unranked list as Adamn and Tonya > Engst, Andrew Welch, Andy Ihnatko, Glenn Fleishman, Joe Kissel, > Matt Neuberg, Ted Landau, Wil Shipley, and other. > > Congratulations. How much did the ballot stuffing cost you? (Just > kidding, well deserved) > > > > > > BTW, Chris Forsythe (Adium and Growl) and David "I write a book a > week" Pogue only rated Honourable mentions. way to go, Scott ! you earned it ! Kevin Callahan http://www.kevincallahan.org/ htt