From finlay.dobbie at gmail.com Thu Feb 1 07:40:28 2007 From: finlay.dobbie at gmail.com (Finlay Dobbie) Date: Thu Feb 1 07:40:31 2007 Subject: adding file types to a default search ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 01/02/07, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > Besides for adding a criteria in a search window (like files that end > with .tmx) is there a way to globally declare a file type to be > searchable ? Write a Spotlight Importer for it? -- Finlay From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Thu Feb 1 07:49:43 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Thu Feb 1 07:49:50 2007 Subject: adding file types to a default search ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2 f?vr. 07, at 00:40, Finlay Dobbie wrote: > On 01/02/07, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: >> Besides for adding a criteria in a search window (like files that end >> with .tmx) is there a way to globally declare a file type to be >> searchable ? > > Write a Spotlight Importer for it? Basically those are plain text files. But with funky extensions. .tmx, .xlf, I have some .utf8 which is aTSV basically. Is there a plist file somewhere to tweak so that Spotlight becomes interested in such files ? What about plain text source code files ? .java etc. As far as I've tried, they are not checked for contents by Spotlight. Jean-Christophe Helary From kcall at mac.com Thu Feb 1 16:55:04 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Feb 1 17:41:06 2007 Subject: BBC wins OK for online plans, runs vote for Mac support - Digital Lifestyle - Macworld UK Message-ID: <67C41782-6D46-41D5-A3CE-D3C9F06F62FA@mac.com> http://www.macworld.co.uk/digitallifestyle/news/index.cfm?newsid=17103> The Trust explains: "As proposed, the TV catch-up service on the internet relies on Microsoft technology for the digital rights management (DRM) framework. The Trust will require the BBC Executive to adopt a platform-agnostic approach within a reasonable timeframe. This requires the BBC to develop an alternative DRM framework to enable users of other technology, for example, Apple and Linux, to access the on-demand services." From kcall at mac.com Fri Feb 2 10:44:31 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Feb 2 10:44:59 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) Message-ID: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16934083/site/newsweek/page/2/ How about the implication that you need surgery to upgrade? GATES: Well, certainly we've done a better job letting you upgrade on the hardware than our competitors have done. You can choose to buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade. And I don't know why [Apple is] acting like it?s superior. I don't even get it. What are they trying to say? Does honesty matter in these things, or if you're really cool, that means you get to be a lying person whenever you feel like it? There's not even the slightest shred of truth to it. From pcoskren at mac.com Fri Feb 2 10:49:10 2007 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Fri Feb 2 10:49:37 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C2BF344-C71C-4ACE-B554-772B9CE685CE@mac.com> On Feb 2, 2007, at 1:44 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16934083/site/newsweek/page/2/ > > How about the implication that you need surgery to upgrade? > > GATES: Well, certainly we've done a better job letting you upgrade > on the hardware than our competitors have done. You can choose to > buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade. And I don't > know why [Apple is] acting like it?s superior. I don't even get it. > What are they trying to say? Does honesty matter in these things, > or if you're really cool, that means you get to be a lying person > whenever you feel like it? There's not even the slightest shred of > truth to it. "if you're really cool, that means you get to... ?" Not to psychoanalyze too much, but you'd think that the third or fourth billion in the bank account would sort of soothe the insecurity issues. -Patrick From kcall at mac.com Fri Feb 2 10:50:51 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Feb 2 10:50:58 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: <3C2BF344-C71C-4ACE-B554-772B9CE685CE@mac.com> References: <3C2BF344-C71C-4ACE-B554-772B9CE685CE@mac.com> Message-ID: <12520165-A38B-4B9F-BD57-B8A61EA46182@mac.com> On Feb 2, 2007, at 10:49 AM, Patrick Coskren wrote: > On Feb 2, 2007, at 1:44 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: >> >> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16934083/site/newsweek/page/2/ >> >> How about the implication that you need surgery to upgrade? >> >> GATES: Well, certainly we've done a better job letting you upgrade >> on the hardware than our competitors have done. You can choose to >> buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade. And I don't >> know why [Apple is] acting like it?s superior. I don't even get >> it. What are they trying to say? Does honesty matter in these >> things, or if you're really cool, that means you get to be a lying >> person whenever you feel like it? There's not even the slightest >> shred of truth to it. > > "if you're really cool, that means you get to... ?" > > Not to psychoanalyze too much, but you'd think that the third or > fourth billion in the bank account would sort of soothe the > insecurity issues. > > -Patrick and how about this for being "insecure" GATES: Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine From pcoskren at mac.com Fri Feb 2 10:53:46 2007 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Fri Feb 2 10:54:20 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: <12520165-A38B-4B9F-BD57-B8A61EA46182@mac.com> References: <3C2BF344-C71C-4ACE-B554-772B9CE685CE@mac.com> <12520165-A38B-4B9F-BD57-B8A61EA46182@mac.com> Message-ID: <2151955D-11BF-4D43-B0F4-0E58A664F568@mac.com> On Feb 2, 2007, at 1:50 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > and how about this for being "insecure" > > GATES: Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. > Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine > can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month > on the Windows machine Well, that's just lying. -Patrick From kcall at mac.com Fri Feb 2 11:58:45 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Feb 2 11:59:07 2007 Subject: Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual Machines Message-ID: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual Machines -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: spacer.gif Type: image/gif Size: 67 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070202/77c6b4f5/spacer.gif -------------- next part -------------- The end-user license agreements specifically forbid users from booting the software 'within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system,' Microsoft says. By Paul McDougall InformationWeek -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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From donofrio at umich.edu Fri Feb 2 12:14:11 2007 From: donofrio at umich.edu (Donofrio, Lewis) Date: Fri Feb 2 12:26:38 2007 Subject: Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux VirtualMachines In-Reply-To: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> References: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> Message-ID: <4F4633A529C77E4BA8E32D3D6053C1D3019396DC@ECLUST2-VS4.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> > -----Original Message----- > From: macosx-talk-bounces@omnigroup.com [mailto:macosx-talk- > bounces@omnigroup.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Callahan > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:59 PM > > articleID=197002890> > > Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual > Machines Humm; makes me think maybe a security vulnerability with bitlocker? ***SNIPPED*** "If you do so, you may not play or access content or use applications protected by any Microsoft digital, information, or enterprise rights management technology or other Microsoft rights management services or use BitLocker," states the license agreement for Vista Ultimate and Vista Business. ***SNIPPED*** From scott at maxify.com Fri Feb 2 13:01:52 2007 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Fri Feb 2 13:01:48 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Feb 2, 2007, at 10:44 AM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16934083/site/newsweek/page/2/ > > How about the implication that you need surgery to upgrade? > > GATES: Well, certainly we've done a better job letting you upgrade > on the hardware than our competitors have done. You can choose to > buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade. And I don't > know why [Apple is] acting like it?s superior. I don't even get it. > What are they trying to say? Does honesty matter in these things, > or if you're really cool, that means you get to be a lying person > whenever you feel like it? There's not even the slightest shred of > truth to it. > > GATES: Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. > Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine > can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month > on the Windows machine I have a hard time picturing him saying these things. I wonder if he was misquoted. - Scott -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070202/3a523cd7/attachment.html From kcall at mac.com Fri Feb 2 13:03:38 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Feb 2 13:03:55 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Feb 2, 2007, at 1:01 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Feb 2, 2007, at 10:44 AM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16934083/site/newsweek/page/2/ >> >> How about the implication that you need surgery to upgrade? >> >> GATES: Well, certainly we've done a better job letting you upgrade >> on the hardware than our competitors have done. You can choose to >> buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade. And I don't >> know why [Apple is] acting like it?s superior. I don't even get >> it. What are they trying to say? Does honesty matter in these >> things, or if you're really cool, that means you get to be a lying >> person whenever you feel like it? There's not even the slightest >> shred of truth to it. >> >> GATES: Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. >> Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine >> can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month >> on the Windows machine > > I have a hard time picturing him saying these things. I wonder if > he was misquoted. > > - Scott yeah -- Newsweek could be "viral marketing" LOL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070202/e0545f95/attachment.html From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Feb 2 13:11:50 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Fri Feb 2 13:11:55 2007 Subject: Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual Machines In-Reply-To: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> References: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> Message-ID: On Feb 2, 2007, at 12:58 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > articleID=197002890> > > Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual > Machines > > > The end-user license agreements specifically forbid users from > booting the software 'within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) > hardware system,' Microsoft says. > > By Paul McDougall > InformationWeek > > > > Feb 2, 2007 01:15 PM > Mac owners and Linux users hoping to run Windows Vista using > virtual machine software had better own the Business or Ultimate > editions of the new operating system, according to Microsoft's > licensing terms. > > The end-user license agreements governing both the Home Basic and > Home Premium editions of the OS specifically forbid users from > booting the software "within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) > hardware system." The blanket prohibitions don't apply to the > higher-end editions of Windows Vista. I'd like to read the actual EULA. The EULA that was posted for VIsta last Fall did not actually say that. It said that you could not boot it in emulated environments running under Vista. Chad From apple at tisys.org Fri Feb 2 13:20:03 2007 From: apple at tisys.org (Nils Holland) Date: Fri Feb 2 13:20:16 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> In Newsweek, Bill Gates said: > GATES: Well, certainly we've done a better job letting you upgrade > on the hardware than our competitors have done. You can choose to > buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade. And I don't > know why [Apple is] acting like it?s superior. I don't even get it. > What are they trying to say? Does honesty matter in these things, > or if you're really cool, that means you get to be a lying person > whenever you feel like it? There's not even the slightest shred of > truth to it. Well, Mr. Gates, it's probably nothing new to you when I tell you that Apple's "Get a Mac" ads are - well - advertising. In these ads, Apple basically tells you that there are no security problems on the Mac, that only Macs can do creative stuff right while PCs cannot, and so on. Of course, all of that is quite a bit oversimplified, but on the whole, the message goes into the right direction and comes kind of close to reality. So, Mr. Gates, have a look at your own advertising instead. Recently, I stumbled about a section on the German Microsoft site in which there was a list of quite a few companies who supposedly switched from one flavor or another of UNIX to Windows, because - quote "Windows was more stable and secure, as well as less expensive to maintain". Now, I guess this is advertising too and it has the same right to be oversimplified as the Apple ads have. In contrast to them, however, my own experience doesn't see too much truth in what your ads are saying here. So, what do you complain here? You're doing the same thing Apple does, but in contrast to them, what you are saying doesn't even remotely come close to the way things really are. Greetings, Nils From lists at toddwarfel.com Fri Feb 2 13:26:32 2007 From: lists at toddwarfel.com (Todd Zaki Warfel) Date: Fri Feb 2 13:26:47 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: <12520165-A38B-4B9F-BD57-B8A61EA46182@mac.com> References: <3C2BF344-C71C-4ACE-B554-772B9CE685CE@mac.com> <12520165-A38B-4B9F-BD57-B8A61EA46182@mac.com> Message-ID: Has he not used Windows in the last decade? On Feb 2, 2007, at 1:50 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > and how about this for being "insecure" > > GATES: Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. > Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine > can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month > on the Windows machine Cheers! Todd Zaki Warfel Partner, Design & Usability Specialist Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully. ---------------------------------- Contact Info Voice: (215) 825-7423 Email: todd@messagefirst.com AIM: twarfel@mac.com Blog: http://toddwarfel.com ---------------------------------- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070202/fc11505f/attachment.html From kcall at mac.com Fri Feb 2 13:32:14 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Feb 2 13:32:23 2007 Subject: Parallels for Mac OSX supports Vista Business/Enterprise/Ultimate Message-ID: <601C7B08-2921-4839-B057-B11A38D55DE7@mac.com> supported OSs: ? Windows Vista Business ? Windows Vista Enterprise ? Windows Vista Ultimate From larkost at softhome.net Fri Feb 2 13:33:21 2007 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Fri Feb 2 13:33:52 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: <3C2BF344-C71C-4ACE-B554-772B9CE685CE@mac.com> <12520165-A38B-4B9F-BD57-B8A61EA46182@mac.com> Message-ID: On Feb 2, 2007, at 4:26 PM, Todd Zaki Warfel wrote: > Has he not used Windows in the last decade? > > On Feb 2, 2007, at 1:50 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> and how about this for being "insecure" >> >> GATES: Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. >> Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine >> can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month >> on the Windows machine More accurately: he has not administered his own computer for more than that amount of time. I am sure that there are a couple of people employed by Microsoft who are dedicated to maintaining the suite of machines used by top Microsoft execs. I would bet that these people are paid a lot of money to make sure that those execs never encounter a problem, or have to run an update. And if that team does not also cover the home computers, there is probably another team there. In fact from what I have heard about Bill Gates's mansion, there is probably a large technical staff there doing repairs, development on, and upgrades of the computers scattered throughout and embedded in that home. -- Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net From aglee at mac.com Fri Feb 2 13:45:07 2007 From: aglee at mac.com (Andy Lee) Date: Fri Feb 2 13:45:50 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2E9085D0-2640-4C24-96E1-96E76D5DDD9B@mac.com> On Feb 2, 2007, at 1:44 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > And I don't know why [Apple is] acting like it?s superior. I don't > even get it. What are they trying to say? Does honesty matter in > these things, or if you're really cool, that means you get to be a > lying person whenever you feel like it? There's not even the > slightest shred of truth to it. Depressing. I saw Gates on The Daily Show and thought he was personable enough, though I assumed partly due to PR training and practice like plenty of other people in the public eye. He might not be my kind of guy in all ways, but he didn't really bother me. Now, assuming the quote is accurate, I have to put him squarely in the horse's ass bucket. He knows damn well what Apple is saying and how much truth is in it. He's now on the same list where I put Rosie and Mel and Kramer -- people I had placed on a personal taste spectrum but not a moral disgust spectrum, until they said something revealing. I wonder if that was *the* Andy Stone who posted in the comments section of the article. --Andy From matthew.penna at gmail.com Fri Feb 2 13:55:51 2007 From: matthew.penna at gmail.com (Matt Penna) Date: Fri Feb 2 13:56:01 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> References: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> Message-ID: <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> On Feb 2, 2007, at 4:20 PM, Nils Holland wrote: > So, what do you complain here? You're doing the same thing Apple > does, but in contrast to them, what you are saying doesn't even > remotely come close to the way things really are. > The entire second page of the interview has some very odd statements by Bill Gates. He seems to be very uninformed (which is not new) and at times almost incoherent. Microsoft had better wake up. If anything needs major surgery, it's not "PC;" it's their development processes. When we see what the final release of Leopard looks like, I do not expect Vista to compare favorably. And OS X 10.6 will probably be out long before Vista's successor, so what's Vista going to look like compared to whatever comes next from Apple? BILL GATES: Well, certainly we've done a better job letting you upgrade on the hardware than our competitors have done. You can choose to buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade. Is the second statement even related to the first? Either it's simply an incomplete train of thought or he doesn't realize you can upgrade Mac OS X. Or Linux. Or anything else. It's been said by a lot of others before: A lot of people will indeed buy a new machine - likely made by Apple, and it won't be running Vista. He also apparently missed the statistics that half of current business PCs can't run Vista's Aero interface without a major hardware upgrade. At my previous workplace, there were 3 machines out of 60 that could run any version of Vista at all, with no plans to begin wholesale hardware replacements. If anything, I'd say the 50% estimate is conservative. And I thought the one-third of people who needed to upgrade hardware when Windows 95 was released was a lot. BILL GATES: And I don't know why [Apple is] acting like it?s superior. I don't even get it. What are they trying to say? Well?probably that they think they're superior? Because in a lot of respects, they are. Isn't that what comparison-based advertising is supposed to convey? If Bill Gates honestly believes that Windows is superior to Mac OS hands-down in all respects across the board, then it's no wonder he was basically tossed out of his own company. Windows definitely has advantages over Mac OS X for certain people, but the number of such advantages has been shrinking for a while and will no doubt continue to do so. BILL GATES: So, yes, it took us longer, and they had what we were doing, user interface-wise. Let?s be realistic, who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help [menu bar]? Do you want to go back to the original Mac and think about where those interface concepts came from? I've read that a good 5 or 6 times and I still can't figure out exactly what he's trying to say. Perhaps I'm dense. Does anyone even care? Matt -- Matt Penna matthew.penna@gmail.com AIM: S0ba Yahoo! Messenger: moresobaplease MSN: soba@usagiyojimbo.com ICQ: 399825 "The trouble with computers, of course, is that they're very sophisticated idiots." -Dr. Who From kremels at kreme.com Fri Feb 2 14:11:29 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Fri Feb 2 14:11:48 2007 Subject: Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual Machines In-Reply-To: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> References: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> Message-ID: <592F8A78-5E4E-484B-A9D0-62C522D9C3DD@kreme.com> On 2-Feb-2007, at 12:58, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > articleID=197002890> > > Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual > Machines > The end-user license agreements specifically forbid users from > booting the software 'within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) > hardware system,' Microsoft says. Yeah, but how is this news? We knew this last year. > Mac owners and Linux users hoping to run Windows Vista using > virtual machine software had better own the Business or Ultimate > editions of the new operating system, according to Microsoft's > licensing terms. No one is going to be using the home version except the unwashed mass of lusers as the home versions are crap. -- I wrote this song two hours before we met. I didn't know your name, or what you looked like yet.... From shawnce at gmail.com Fri Feb 2 14:35:00 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Fri Feb 2 14:35:06 2007 Subject: Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual Machines In-Reply-To: References: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> Message-ID: On 2/2/07, Chad Leigh wrote: > I'd like to read the actual EULA. The EULA that was posted for VIsta > last Fall did not actually say that. It said that you could not boot > it in emulated environments running under Vista. Actually what is said didn't clearly state that... it left a lot open to interpretation and only when favoring a liberal interpretation of the EULA could you read it they way as you stated. -Shawn From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Feb 2 14:40:17 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Fri Feb 2 14:40:22 2007 Subject: Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual Machines In-Reply-To: References: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> Message-ID: <453B352B-B406-4656-8EF6-12CC116E1DE7@objectwerks.com> On Feb 2, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > On 2/2/07, Chad Leigh wrote: > >> I'd like to read the actual EULA. The EULA that was posted for VIsta >> last Fall did not actually say that. It said that you could not boot >> it in emulated environments running under Vista. > > Actually what is said didn't clearly state that... it left a lot open > to interpretation and only when favoring a liberal interpretation of > the EULA could you read it they way as you stated. It was pretty clear that you couldn't run it in a virtual machine running on the "licensed device." The "licensed device" was defined as the machine that Vista was installed on. Since my Mac running OS X does not run Vista, it cannot be considered the "licensed device." Notwithstanding any clarifications MS may have made outside of the EULA, the text of the EULA is what matters and things revolve around precise definitions in a court of law. Indeed, a commentary from MS when it first came out was that the reason for this was to stop people from re-using the license to run multiple copies under VM on one Vista machine. So, at least as it read when released, they could not claim you were not allowed to do it if the VM was on Linux or Mac OS (maybe if the Linux machine or Mac OS X machine also had Vista installed directly on the HD in a bootcamp/dual boot type of situation you might be able to make a MS case) since their EULA was very specific. They may have upgraded the EULA for the release and have worded it differently, I have not checked. IANAL and all that IANALAIDPOOTV too Chad From aglee at mac.com Fri Feb 2 14:40:25 2007 From: aglee at mac.com (Andy Lee) Date: Fri Feb 2 14:40:42 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> References: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Feb 2, 2007, at 4:55 PM, Matt Penna wrote: >> BILL GATES: Well, certainly we've done a better job letting you >> upgrade on the hardware than our competitors have done. You can >> choose to buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade. > > Is the second statement even related to the first? Either it's > simply an incomplete train of thought or he doesn't realize you can > upgrade Mac OS X. Or Linux. Or anything else. Sure, if your hardware is too weak for Vista you have the option of upgrading the hardware or buying a new machine. He makes this sound like flexibility. The option he leaves out is sticking with your existing hardware, which for a lot of people won't be an option if they upgrade if I understand correctly. >> BILL GATES: So, yes, it took us longer, and they had what we were >> doing, user interface-wise. Let?s be realistic, who came up with >> [the] file, edit, view, help [menu bar]? Do you want to go back to >> the original Mac and think about where those interface concepts >> came from? > > I've read that a good 5 or 6 times and I still can't figure out > exactly what he's trying to say. Perhaps I'm dense. Does anyone > even care? Who *did* invent the File/Edit/etc. menu convention? Obviously it was burned into the Mac long before Windows existed. But did the convention exist in Microsoft text-based programs before the Mac? Did it exist at PARC? The problem is that an uninformed reader could assume that Gates is saying Microsoft invented the convention and Apple stole it from them. --Andy From shawnce at gmail.com Fri Feb 2 14:44:58 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Fri Feb 2 14:45:03 2007 Subject: Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual Machines In-Reply-To: <453B352B-B406-4656-8EF6-12CC116E1DE7@objectwerks.com> References: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> <453B352B-B406-4656-8EF6-12CC116E1DE7@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On 2/2/07, Chad Leigh wrote: > > On Feb 2, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > > > On 2/2/07, Chad Leigh wrote: > > > >> I'd like to read the actual EULA. The EULA that was posted for VIsta > >> last Fall did not actually say that. It said that you could not boot > >> it in emulated environments running under Vista. > > > > Actually what is said didn't clearly state that... it left a lot open > > to interpretation and only when favoring a liberal interpretation of > > the EULA could you read it they way as you stated. > > It was pretty clear that you couldn't run it in a virtual machine > running on the "licensed device." The "licensed device" was defined > as the machine that Vista was installed on. Since my Mac running OS > X does not run Vista, it cannot be considered the "licensed device." Again a liberal reading of it... -Shawn From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Feb 2 14:50:05 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Fri Feb 2 14:50:10 2007 Subject: Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual Machines In-Reply-To: References: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> <453B352B-B406-4656-8EF6-12CC116E1DE7@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <297CF6A5-3991-4C7D-A62D-4526F7E9E0A5@objectwerks.com> On Feb 2, 2007, at 3:44 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > On 2/2/07, Chad Leigh wrote: >> >> On Feb 2, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: >> >> > On 2/2/07, Chad Leigh wrote: >> > >> >> I'd like to read the actual EULA. The EULA that was posted for >> VIsta >> >> last Fall did not actually say that. It said that you could >> not boot >> >> it in emulated environments running under Vista. >> > >> > Actually what is said didn't clearly state that... it left a lot >> open >> > to interpretation and only when favoring a liberal >> interpretation of >> > the EULA could you read it they way as you stated. >> >> It was pretty clear that you couldn't run it in a virtual machine >> running on the "licensed device." The "licensed device" was defined >> as the machine that Vista was installed on. Since my Mac running OS >> X does not run Vista, it cannot be considered the "licensed device." > > Again a liberal reading of it... I don't see what is liberal about it. MS cannot call my Mac a licensed device since I have not installed their SW on it. Running in a VM is not the same as running on the device itself. They would be hard pressed to win this in court based on the EULA from last Fall. (Again, they may have corrected that in the released one) Chad > > -Shawn From scott at maxify.com Fri Feb 2 14:52:52 2007 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Fri Feb 2 14:52:40 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> Message-ID: <98F7E376-08D3-4948-AF5E-2735F3AFBC58@maxify.com> On Feb 2, 2007, at 2:40 PM, Andy Lee wrote: > Who *did* invent the File/Edit/etc. menu convention? It looks like the Apple Lisa group did, according to Bruce Horn: http://daringfireball.net/2007/02/lies_damned_lies_and_bill_gates - Scot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070202/131252ca/attachment.html From blenko at martingalesystems.com Fri Feb 2 14:46:30 2007 From: blenko at martingalesystems.com (Tom M.Blenko) Date: Fri Feb 2 14:53:17 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> Message-ID: > Who *did* invent the File/Edit/etc. menu convention? Obviously it was > burned into the Mac long before Windows existed. But did the > convention exist in Microsoft text-based programs before the Mac? Did > it exist at PARC? Yes, more or less. It wasn't standardized (or sort-of standardized) across applications. Tom From jearle at gmail.com Fri Feb 2 17:32:30 2007 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Fri Feb 2 17:32:37 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: <12520165-A38B-4B9F-BD57-B8A61EA46182@mac.com> References: <3C2BF344-C71C-4ACE-B554-772B9CE685CE@mac.com> <12520165-A38B-4B9F-BD57-B8A61EA46182@mac.com> Message-ID: <5bbc0cd60702021732w588e741bv73380618b3baa310@mail.gmail.com> On 2/2/07, Kevin Callahan wrote: > GATES: Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every > single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be > taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the > Windows machine This is the first time Bill is being defensive about Apple in what, 10-15 years? Bill, it doesn't matter how good Vista is. You're talking about apple. You're doing their advertising for them. Every time you've got to mention your competition, and they're smaller than you, you're gifting them free exposure. Amazing stuff. Keep talking about Apple, Bill. -- Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK jearle@gmail.com :: http://www.23x.net The Spodcast :: http://spodcast.org From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Fri Feb 2 18:44:04 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Fri Feb 2 18:44:33 2007 Subject: OOo native Mac version ! References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> The Mac port coordinator Eric Bachard has demoed a working version of the OOo Mac native (carbon) port ! People who are interrested in contributing should check the following links: > http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/developers/index.html > > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:Aqua > > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:MacOSX > > Server : irc.freenode.net > Channel : #ooo_macport Jean-Christophe Helary Begin forwarded message: > From: Marie jo KOPP CASTINEL > Date: 3 f?vrier 2007 02:50:38 HNJ > To: dev@fr.openoffice.org > Subject: [dev-fr] Solutions linux 2007 termin? :-( > Reply-To: dev@fr.openoffice.org > - Eric nous a montr? en avant premi?re la version native Mac ! > Bravo ? lui pour ce travail titanesque. et en plus "Ca marche" ;-) > A ce sujet, un Monsieur a pos? la question : "comment contribuer au > projet Ooo, sp?cifiquement pour le d?v Mac" From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Fri Feb 2 19:09:40 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Fri Feb 2 19:09:49 2007 Subject: OOo native Mac version ! In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0702021846y5dd5f0a8k7cf4c366e2c5c15d@mail.gmail.com> References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021846y5dd5f0a8k7cf4c366e2c5c15d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <90E9FC5F-7440-4D96-A588-A611E8302006@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> On 3 f?vr. 07, at 11:46, Hex Star wrote: > On 2/2/07, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > The Mac port coordinator Eric Bachard has demoed a working version of > the OOo Mac native (carbon) port ! > > People who are interrested in contributing should check the following > links: > > > http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/developers/index.html > > > > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:Aqua > > > > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:MacOSX > > > > Server : irc.freenode.net > > Channel : #ooo_macport > >> There already is a native OS X GUI port of OpenOffice that has >> been around for quite a while and has done a very good job here: >> http://www.neooffice.org/ ...a little to late me thinks :p NeoOffice uses Java, and Java can hardly be considered "native" on OSX by any stretch of the imagination. Not that I don't like the product. I use it everyday because the current OOo/X11 for Mac requires installing special input systems for everything that is asiatic, and I need Japanese everyday. The current effort revolves on removing _any_ X11 dependencies and incorporating the most Apple GUI guidelines possible. It is a huge effort and the Mac port is manned exclusively by volunteers (contrary to OOo/Windows and OOo/Linux where SUN contributes a lot it seems). Jean-Christophe Helary From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Fri Feb 2 19:12:46 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Fri Feb 2 19:12:54 2007 Subject: OOo native Mac version ! In-Reply-To: <190434126-1170472168-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-2015302963-@bxe029-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <190434126-1170472168-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-2015302963-@bxe029-cell01.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <99ABE10C-7F81-44E0-B301-E45B3FEE8210@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> On 3 f?vr. 07, at 12:09, Michael Stearne wrote: > Do carbon apps run on Intel Macs? (natively) If they are working on it, I'd say it does. Confirmation on this page: http://www.netneurotic.net/mac/intel/index.html JC > The Mac port coordinator Eric Bachard has demoed a working version of > the OOo Mac native (carbon) port ! > > People who are interrested in contributing should check the following > links: > >> http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/developers/index.html >> >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:Aqua >> >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:MacOSX >> >> Server : irc.freenode.net >> Channel : #ooo_macport From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Fri Feb 2 19:17:33 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Fri Feb 2 19:17:43 2007 Subject: OOo native Mac version ! In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0702021912q3d025923w507b7d560303e6a6@mail.gmail.com> References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021846y5dd5f0a8k7cf4c366e2c5c15d@mail.gmail.com> <90E9FC5F-7440-4D96-A588-A611E8302006@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021912q3d025923w507b7d560303e6a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 3 f?vr. 07, at 12:12, Hex Star wrote: > Well I believe the Windows port uses Java as well...I think > OpenOffice in general is made from Java...the main issue here I > believe is whether or not the GUI is native...not whether or not it > uses the native API's or not OOo is not made from Java at all. It is mostly C++ code. http://contributing.openoffice.org/programming.html Jean-Christophe Helary From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Fri Feb 2 19:22:55 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Fri Feb 2 19:23:02 2007 Subject: OOo native Mac version ! In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0702021914v1e6bcd5dt54867182b9e050fa@mail.gmail.com> References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021846y5dd5f0a8k7cf4c366e2c5c15d@mail.gmail.com> <90E9FC5F-7440-4D96-A588-A611E8302006@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021912q3d025923w507b7d560303e6a6@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702021914v1e6bcd5dt54867182b9e050fa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <96532470-B241-429C-B54C-4DCAFF6ADB6E@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> On 3 f?vr. 07, at 12:14, Hex Star wrote: > although if you wanted to argue whether or not this one is native > in regards to the API's it uses this one isn't really either > because Mac OS X's native API is Cocoa not Carbon, Carbon is simply > there for backwards compatibility and was the native API in the > classic Mac OS's (Mac OS 9 and below) I don't want to argue that. X11 applications or applications that depend on Java are not native on OSX. Carbon, once compiled for Intel runs without intermediate "layer" on OSX and thus can be considered native. Now, I specifically _don't_ want to argue anything. The point of the original mail was to send a few links for people who would be interested in contributing. I am not a developer myself, only does some l10n, and can't answer for them. Jean-Christophe Helary From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Fri Feb 2 19:26:53 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Fri Feb 2 19:27:02 2007 Subject: OOo native Mac version ! In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0702021920wad35e54tfe2d5bcc89dbcdb@mail.gmail.com> References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021846y5dd5f0a8k7cf4c366e2c5c15d@mail.gmail.com> <90E9FC5F-7440-4D96-A588-A611E8302006@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021912q3d025923w507b7d560303e6a6@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702021920wad35e54tfe2d5bcc89dbcdb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 3 f?vr. 07, at 12:20, Hex Star wrote: > > Well I believe the Windows port uses Java as well...I think > > OpenOffice in general is made from Java...the main issue here I > > believe is whether or not the GUI is native...not whether or not it > > uses the native API's or not > > OOo is not made from Java at all. It is mostly C++ code. > > http://contributing.openoffice.org/programming.html > >>> Then why does it say here: >> source/sys_reqs_20.html > >>> >>> this: >>> >>> Java >>> The minimum JDK/JRE version required to use OpenOffice.org >>> features that require java is JDK/JRE version 1.3.1. It says that because to access some features of OOo 2.0 Java is required. I specifically replied to _your_ comment which was: "OpenOffice is general is made of Java". No. It is not. Most of it is C++ and some recently implemented features use Java. Jean-Christophe Helary From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Feb 2 20:08:09 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Fri Feb 2 20:08:20 2007 Subject: OOo native Mac version ! In-Reply-To: <96532470-B241-429C-B54C-4DCAFF6ADB6E@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021846y5dd5f0a8k7cf4c366e2c5c15d@mail.gmail.com> <90E9FC5F-7440-4D96-A588-A611E8302006@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021912q3d025923w507b7d560303e6a6@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702021914v1e6bcd5dt54867182b9e050fa@mail.gmail.com> <96532470-B241-429C-B54C-4DCAFF6ADB6E@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> Message-ID: <0208CCB8-EA3C-4635-99D4-02547ADD0E54@objectwerks.com> On 3 f?vr. 07, at 12:14, Hex Star wrote: > although if you wanted to argue whether or not this one is native > in regards to the API's it uses this one isn't really either > because Mac OS X's native API is Cocoa not Carbon, Carbon is simply > there for backwards compatibility and was the native API in the > classic Mac OS's (Mac OS 9 and below) While I am a Cocoa fan and not a Carbon fan, this is pure BS. Carbon is one of the native OS X APIs... And you'd be surprised how many of your Apple OS X apps rely on Carbon. There are parts of Cocoa that call into Carbon at a low level btw. Chad From kremels at kreme.com Fri Feb 2 21:51:51 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Fri Feb 2 21:52:06 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> Message-ID: <31567B27-A579-4E4E-A695-75E29CFE2B6C@kreme.com> On 2-Feb-2007, at 15:46, Tom M.Blenko wrote: >> Who *did* invent the File/Edit/etc. menu convention? Obviously it >> was burned into the Mac long before Windows existed. But did the >> convention exist in Microsoft text-based programs before the Mac? >> Did it exist at PARC? > > Yes, more or less. It wasn't standardized (or sort-of standardized) > across applications. Are you sure about this? I don't recall teh PARC interface even HAVING a menu bar. -- Why can't you be in a good mood? How hard is it to decide to be in a good mood and be in a good mood once in a while?" From kremels at kreme.com Fri Feb 2 21:53:21 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Fri Feb 2 21:53:28 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: <5bbc0cd60702021732w588e741bv73380618b3baa310@mail.gmail.com> References: <3C2BF344-C71C-4ACE-B554-772B9CE685CE@mac.com> <12520165-A38B-4B9F-BD57-B8A61EA46182@mac.com> <5bbc0cd60702021732w588e741bv73380618b3baa310@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <276F2F40-E4AD-45F5-99EE-9F93FB1E13EA@kreme.com> On 2-Feb-2007, at 18:32, Jared Earle wrote: > On 2/2/07, Kevin Callahan wrote: >> GATES: Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every >> single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be >> taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the >> Windows machine > > This is the first time Bill is being defensive about Apple in what, > 10-15 years? Bill, it doesn't matter how good Vista is. You're talking > about apple. You're doing their advertising for them. Every time > you've got to mention your competition, and they're smaller than you, > you're gifting them free exposure. The funniest thing about this is that it is so obvious that Bill Gates is still the insecure little kid when it comes to The Steve. Always has been, seemingly always will be. We all know Bill Gates owes all his success to The Steve, and so does Bill. -- Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. From kremels at kreme.com Fri Feb 2 21:57:47 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Fri Feb 2 21:57:55 2007 Subject: OOo native Mac version ! In-Reply-To: <96532470-B241-429C-B54C-4DCAFF6ADB6E@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021846y5dd5f0a8k7cf4c366e2c5c15d@mail.gmail.com> <90E9FC5F-7440-4D96-A588-A611E8302006@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021912q3d025923w507b7d560303e6a6@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702021914v1e6bcd5dt54867182b9e050fa@mail.gmail.com> <96532470-B241-429C-B54C-4DCAFF6ADB6E@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> Message-ID: <2ED442F3-A948-44D4-8C74-98154E737424@kreme.com> On 2-Feb-2007, at 20:22, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > On 3 f?vr. 07, at 12:14, Hex Star wrote: >> although if you wanted to argue whether or not this one is native >> in regards to the API's it uses this one isn't really either >> because Mac OS X's native API is Cocoa not Carbon, Carbon is >> simply there for backwards compatibility and was the native API in >> the classic Mac OS's (Mac OS 9 and below) You are, as usual, full of crap. Carbon is just as native as Cocoa. It is not there for compatibility with OS 9, or else it wouldn't exist in intel OS X, as the intel Macs can't run OS 9 or Classic. > I don't want to argue that. X11 applications or applications that > depend on Java are not native on OSX. Agreed. > Carbon, once compiled for Intel runs without intermediate "layer" > on OSX and thus can be considered native. Not just 'considered', it is native. As native as anything else. > Now, I specifically _don't_ want to argue anything. The point of > the original mail was to send a few links for people who would be > interested in contributing. I am not a developer myself, only does > some l10n, and can't answer for them. I'm interested in a native OOo. I always found NeoOffice to be a bit hinkey. -- No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things. From scott at maxify.com Fri Feb 2 22:48:09 2007 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Fri Feb 2 22:47:58 2007 Subject: Frameworks (was: Re: OOo native Mac version !) In-Reply-To: <2ED442F3-A948-44D4-8C74-98154E737424@kreme.com> References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021846y5dd5f0a8k7cf4c366e2c5c15d@mail.gmail.com> <90E9FC5F-7440-4D96-A588-A611E8302006@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021912q3d025923w507b7d560303e6a6@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702021914v1e6bcd5dt54867182b9e050fa@mail.gmail.com> <96532470-B241-429C-B54C-4DCAFF6ADB6E@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <2ED442F3-A948-44D4-8C74-98154E737424@kreme.com> Message-ID: On Feb 2, 2007, at 9:57 PM, LuKreme wrote: > You are, as usual, full of crap. Carbon is just as native as > Cocoa. It is not there for compatibility with OS 9, or else it > wouldn't exist in intel OS X, as the intel Macs can't run OS 9 or > Classic. It really depends on what native means to you (back to defining what words mean :). Carbon apps are certainly not emulated, so they're native in that sense. Both also use the data structures in CoreFoundation. In fact, Cocoa apps depend on Carbon for a number of things at lower levels. A lot of important apps are built around Carbon, such as Adobe's apps and Office. However, Apple's focus is clearly on Cocoa and has been for some time. QTKit is a good example of this. So if native API to you means the "most thoroughly invested, most complete environment which is recommended by Apple" then Cocoa is clearly "the" native environment. In other words, both frameworks are technically native from an operating view of the world, but they're not even remotely equivalent or interchangable from the developer's perspective. - Scott -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070202/e0bca47d/attachment.html From blenko at martingalesystems.com Fri Feb 2 23:36:39 2007 From: blenko at martingalesystems.com (Tom M.Blenko) Date: Fri Feb 2 23:36:44 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: <31567B27-A579-4E4E-A695-75E29CFE2B6C@kreme.com> References: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> <31567B27-A579-4E4E-A695-75E29CFE2B6C@kreme.com> Message-ID: <3c1877149b526b4283df62ddf36e8aa8@martingalesystems.com> On Feb 2, 2007, at 9:51 PM, LuKreme wrote: > On 2-Feb-2007, at 15:46, Tom M.Blenko wrote: >>> Who *did* invent the File/Edit/etc. menu convention? Obviously it >>> was burned into the Mac long before Windows existed. But did the >>> convention exist in Microsoft text-based programs before the Mac? >>> Did it exist at PARC? >> >> Yes, more or less. It wasn't standardized (or sort-of standardized) >> across applications. > > Are you sure about this? I don't recall teh PARC interface even > HAVING a menu bar. Well, it's been more than 20 years but yes, that's what I recall. I don't know that all applications used the bar and I do believe that it was (entirely) up to the programmer what appeared in the bar. Tom From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Sat Feb 3 01:29:09 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Sat Feb 3 01:29:20 2007 Subject: Coders Anonymous (was Re: OOo native Mac version !) In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0702030121h36097f13vdf5e262d29989a4d@mail.gmail.com> References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021846y5dd5f0a8k7cf4c366e2c5c15d@mail.gmail.com> <90E9FC5F-7440-4D96-A588-A611E8302006@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021912q3d025923w507b7d560303e6a6@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702021914v1e6bcd5dt54867182b9e050fa@mail.gmail.com> <96532470-B241-429C-B54C-4DCAFF6ADB6E@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <0208CCB8-EA3C-4635-99D4-02547ADD0E54@objectwerks.com> <5dc6fd9e0702030037t78f2757at73a1eff9d41118f8@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702030121h36097f13vdf5e262d29989a4d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 3 f?vr. 07, at 18:21, Hex Star wrote: (something that keeps going further and further from the original message, and closer and closer to how list members perceive the sender of these mails.) Did anybody write anywhere that this list was some kind of "Coders Anonymous" chatting place for people who lack social interaction in their everyday life ? Jean-Christophe From pelorus at mac.com Sat Feb 3 01:41:16 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Sat Feb 3 01:41:38 2007 Subject: Coders Anonymous (was Re: OOo native Mac version !) In-Reply-To: References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021846y5dd5f0a8k7cf4c366e2c5c15d@mail.gmail.com> <90E9FC5F-7440-4D96-A588-A611E8302006@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021912q3d025923w507b7d560303e6a6@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702021914v1e6bcd5dt54867182b9e050fa@mail.gmail.com> <96532470-B241-429C-B54C-4DCAFF6ADB6E@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <0208CCB8-EA3C-4635-99D4-02547ADD0E54@objectwerks.com> <5dc6fd9e0702030037t78f2757at73a1eff9d41118f8@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702030121h36097f13vdf5e262d29989a4d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 3 Feb 2007, at 09:29, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > Did anybody write anywhere that this list was some kind of "Coders > Anonymous" chatting place for people who lack social interaction in > their everyday life ? > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk In teh list sig! How irony! Much laughing! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070203/6410dc34/attachment.html From mark at bbprojects.net Sat Feb 3 03:08:09 2007 From: mark at bbprojects.net (Mark Smith) Date: Sat Feb 3 03:08:38 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: <98F7E376-08D3-4948-AF5E-2735F3AFBC58@maxify.com> References: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> <98F7E376-08D3-4948-AF5E-2735F3AFBC58@maxify.com> Message-ID: <227A2A64-1420-4540-A93D-4540ED67EF3F@bbprojects.net> On 2 Feb 2007, at 23:52, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Feb 2, 2007, at 2:40 PM, Andy Lee wrote: > >> Who *did* invent the File/Edit/etc. menu convention? > > It looks like the Apple Lisa group did, according to Bruce Horn: > http://daringfireball.net/2007/02/lies_damned_lies_and_bill_gates I think William the Turd minor is being deliberately disingenuous here. There is no question at all, that the GUI file, edit etc. menus first appeared (to the public) in Apple computers. However, I imagine he would say that he was referring to the fact that console-based programs had invokable commands ordered under file and edit headings as early as the appearance of the mac, possibly earlier. I can remember a variety of shell and/or DOS tools back in the mid- eighties (circa '84 - '88) that had this and even earlier, there was something that you could argue was analogous (though I can't remember what exactly) on the Spekky, the Vic20 and the BBC (circa '80-'82). Still, its a new brand of nervously defensive FUD however you look at it. Mark. From finlay.dobbie at gmail.com Sat Feb 3 08:33:58 2007 From: finlay.dobbie at gmail.com (Finlay Dobbie) Date: Sat Feb 3 08:34:02 2007 Subject: Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual Machines In-Reply-To: <592F8A78-5E4E-484B-A9D0-62C522D9C3DD@kreme.com> References: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> <592F8A78-5E4E-484B-A9D0-62C522D9C3DD@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 02/02/07, LuKreme wrote: > > Mac owners and Linux users hoping to run Windows Vista using > > virtual machine software had better own the Business or Ultimate > > editions of the new operating system, according to Microsoft's > > licensing terms. > > No one is going to be using the home version except the unwashed mass > of lusers as the home versions are crap. I run Windows XP Home Edition. Am I an unwashed luser? -- Finlay From henry at trilithon.com Sat Feb 3 09:52:30 2007 From: henry at trilithon.com (Henry McGilton) Date: Sat Feb 3 09:52:39 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: <227A2A64-1420-4540-A93D-4540ED67EF3F@bbprojects.net> References: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> <98F7E376-08D3-4948-AF5E-2735F3AFBC58@maxify.com> <227A2A64-1420-4540-A93D-4540ED67EF3F@bbprojects.net> Message-ID: <827FC3A3-EE85-44E5-9AE8-F3B9444149BB@trilithon.com> On Feb 3, 2007, at 3:08 AM, Mark Smith wrote: > > On 2 Feb 2007, at 23:52, Scott Stevenson wrote: > >> >> On Feb 2, 2007, at 2:40 PM, Andy Lee wrote: >> >>> Who *did* invent the File/Edit/etc. menu convention? >> >> It looks like the Apple Lisa group did, according to Bruce Horn: >> http://daringfireball.net/2007/02/lies_damned_lies_and_bill_gates > > I think William the Turd minor is being deliberately disingenuous > here. There is no question at all, that the GUI file, edit etc. > menus first appeared (to the public) in Apple computers. However, I > imagine he would say that he was referring to the fact that console- > based programs had invokable commands ordered under file and edit > headings as early as the appearance of the mac, possibly earlier. > > I can remember a variety of shell and/or DOS tools back in the mid- > eighties (circa '84 - '88) that had this and even earlier, there > was something that you could argue was analogous (though I can't > remember what exactly) on the Spekky, the Vic20 and the BBC (circa > '80-'82). > > Still, its a new brand of nervously defensive FUD however you look > at it. Engrish.com has this to say about Gates: ===============================+============================ Henry McGilton, Boulevardier | Trilithon Software Objective-C/Java Composer | Seroia Research -------------------------------+---------------------------- mailto:henry@trilithon.com | http://www.trilithon.com | ===============================+============================ From rosyna at unsanity.com Sat Feb 3 09:56:59 2007 From: rosyna at unsanity.com (Rosyna) Date: Sat Feb 3 09:57:06 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> Message-ID: AFAICT, PARC has popup menus. The Mac team invented pull down menus. Popup being the kind you see inside windows. Pull down being the kind at the top of the menu bar. Ack, at 2/2/07, Tom M.Blenko said: >>Who *did* invent the File/Edit/etc. menu convention? Obviously it >>was burned into the Mac long before Windows existed. But did the >>convention exist in Microsoft text-based programs before the Mac? >>Did it exist at PARC? > >Yes, more or less. It wasn't standardized (or sort-of standardized) >across applications. -- Sincerely, Rosyna Keller Technical Support/Carbon troll/Always needs a hug Unsanity: Unsane Tools for Insanely Great People It's either this, or imagining Phil Schiller in a thong. From rosyna at unsanity.com Sat Feb 3 09:58:18 2007 From: rosyna at unsanity.com (Rosyna) Date: Sat Feb 3 09:58:23 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's what I'd like to believe. But the copious use of brackets seem to say he did indeed say all of this. Which says a *lot* about his technical ability. There were a few gross inaccuracies attributed to his mouth. Ack, at 2/2/07, Scott Stevenson said: >I have a hard time picturing him saying these things. I wonder if he >was misquoted. -- Sincerely, Rosyna Keller Technical Support/Carbon troll/Always needs a hug Unsanity: Unsane Tools for Insanely Great People It's either this, or imagining Phil Schiller in a thong. From glennc at mac.com Sat Feb 3 11:41:33 2007 From: glennc at mac.com (Glenn Carnagey) Date: Sat Feb 3 11:41:45 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Feb 3, 2007, at 11:56 AM, Rosyna wrote: > AFAICT, PARC has popup menus. The Mac team invented pull down > menus. Popup being the kind you see inside windows. Pull down being > the kind at the top of the menu bar. > > Ack, at 2/2/07, Tom M.Blenko said: > >>> Who *did* invent the File/Edit/etc. menu convention? Obviously >>> it was burned into the Mac long before Windows existed. But did >>> the convention exist in Microsoft text-based programs before the >>> Mac? Did it exist at PARC? >> >> Yes, more or less. It wasn't standardized (or sort-of >> standardized) across applications. To be fair, the early Microsoft Mac apps did help to standardize the first top mac app menus and menu items as we know them today. earliest versions of Word/Excel/File. I remember them more as being among the participants in the process, but whatever. The tearing tragedy (IMO) was how wonderfully simple and easy to use they were, compared to their behemoth descendents, far more productive and efficient. really sad. g./ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070203/8fd410c4/attachment.html From glennc at mac.com Sat Feb 3 11:58:27 2007 From: glennc at mac.com (Glenn Carnagey) Date: Sat Feb 3 11:58:36 2007 Subject: Coders Anonymous (was Re: OOo native Mac version !) In-Reply-To: References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021846y5dd5f0a8k7cf4c366e2c5c15d@mail.gmail.com> <90E9FC5F-7440-4D96-A588-A611E8302006@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021912q3d025923w507b7d560303e6a6@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702021914v1e6bcd5dt54867182b9e050fa@mail.gmail.com> <96532470-B241-429C-B54C-4DCAFF6ADB6E@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <0208CCB8-EA3C-4635-99D4-02547ADD0E54@objectwerks.com> <5dc6fd9e0702030037t78f2757at73a1eff9d41118f8@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702030121h36097f13vdf5e262d29989a4d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3297AB8F-D004-4E56-AC37-51EA5CD259E9@mac.com> On Feb 3, 2007, at 3:41 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > > > On 3 Feb 2007, at 09:29, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > >> Did anybody write anywhere that this list was some kind of "Coders >> Anonymous" chatting place for people who lack social interaction >> in their everyday life ? > > >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > In the list sig! How irony! Much laughing! > _______________________________________________ well, that link just ducks the question About MacOSX-talk English (USA) To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the MacOSX- talk Archives it's like one of those paintings of a painter painting a painter painting a painter. still, doing the whole roflmao thing, of course. /guffaw. see? Jean's of course right, because this is what the information superhighway has always been for. If you look really closely at the original Usenet spec you'll see "is a __(your dystopic group here)___ chatting place for people who lack social interaction in their everyday life. That's why Arpa said "Let there be Protocol", because it was not good for the geek to be alone. g./ From kremels at kreme.com Sat Feb 3 13:49:25 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat Feb 3 13:49:41 2007 Subject: Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual Machines In-Reply-To: References: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> <592F8A78-5E4E-484B-A9D0-62C522D9C3DD@kreme.com> Message-ID: <416AFF60-DFDD-4128-BC76-3ECABCB23F39@kreme.com> On 3-Feb-2007, at 09:33, Finlay Dobbie wrote: > On 02/02/07, LuKreme wrote: >> > Mac owners and Linux users hoping to run Windows Vista using >> > virtual machine software had better own the Business or Ultimate >> > editions of the new operating system, according to Microsoft's >> > licensing terms. >> >> No one is going to be using the home version except the unwashed mass >> of lusers as the home versions are crap. > > I run Windows XP Home Edition. Am I an unwashed luser? Windows XP Home edition is only slightly crippled, Vista Home is seriously crippled. I mean, the Home Basic, especially, is total crap. But even the Home 'premium" version doesn't include the system backup and restore tools, remote desktop, or any encryption support. I have no idea if the home version support multiple processors, but XP Home doesn't, so I wouldn't be surprised if Vista Home also was limited to a single processor. Less of an issue 5 years ago, but potentially a big issue now. -- "What's a Velvet Underground?" "You wouldn't like it." "Oh, Be-bop." From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Sat Feb 3 14:35:27 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Sat Feb 3 14:35:38 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C100608-314E-4CDF-A37D-F8189C08C52F@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> On 4 f?vr. 07, at 02:58, Rosyna wrote: > That's what I'd like to believe. But the copious use of brackets > seem to say he did indeed say all of this. Which says a *lot* about > his technical ability. There were a few gross inaccuracies > attributed to his mouth. I am surprised few of the commentators here got the whole thing: it is yet another exercise in marketing Vista, at a time where _everybody_ has heard "Mac are Intel PCs too" and "Macs can run windows apps too". The target is not the "cool" people, but the slightly uncool people: those who read Newsweek and all the news feed that are going to quote NewsWeek (and certainly not the list members' blogs). Come on, have you ever read Newsweek ? Besides, the article has most probably been approved by MS before publication, so they know exactly what is correct, what is not, what the wording would be etc. All the exercises in facts checking are vain, because nobody will published them in NewsWeek anyway, and _if_ they were to be published, _those_ would look defensive and not the original paper. at least to NewsWeek readers. And we all know that MS is generally full of crap, so why bother ? Jean-Christophe Helary > > Ack, at 2/2/07, Scott Stevenson said: > >> I have a hard time picturing him saying these things. I wonder if >> he was misquoted. From matthew.penna at gmail.com Sat Feb 3 15:04:18 2007 From: matthew.penna at gmail.com (Matt Penna) Date: Sat Feb 3 15:04:25 2007 Subject: Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual Machines In-Reply-To: <416AFF60-DFDD-4128-BC76-3ECABCB23F39@kreme.com> References: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> <592F8A78-5E4E-484B-A9D0-62C522D9C3DD@kreme.com> <416AFF60-DFDD-4128-BC76-3ECABCB23F39@kreme.com> Message-ID: On Feb 3, 2007, at 4:49 PM, LuKreme wrote: > I have no idea if the home version support multiple processors, but > XP Home doesn't, so I wouldn't be surprised if Vista Home also was > limited to a single processor. Less of an issue 5 years ago, but > potentially a big issue now. > This only applies to multiple physical processors. I.e., more than one CPU socket on the motherboard. A single processor with multiple cores is fully supported and used by the OS, so this limitation will not affect most people. Having said that, I've always felt this sort of trickery about limiting the number of CPUs you can use to be a dumb limitation on Windows. A lot of engineers and designers out there would love to have a 4- or 8-CPU board in their systems and in order to support that, they need to run Windows Server - and moving beyond 4 CPUs requires Windows Server Enterprise Edition. (Which costs nearly $3500 US.) Very few network admins are going to deploy a server OS out on workstations that - in the case of CAD users - frequently require local administrator privileges. I could understand if Microsoft wanted to charge extra to use more physical processors on the workstation versions of Windows, but there is no such option, so this artificial limitation handicaps the people who most need more performance with no workaround. Matt -- Matt Penna matthew.penna@gmail.com AIM: S0ba Yahoo! Messenger: moresobaplease MSN: soba@usagiyojimbo.com ICQ: 399825 "The trouble with computers, of course, is that they're very sophisticated idiots." -Dr. Who From hexstar at gmail.com Fri Feb 2 18:23:35 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Sun Feb 4 08:05:48 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: <98F7E376-08D3-4948-AF5E-2735F3AFBC58@maxify.com> References: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> <98F7E376-08D3-4948-AF5E-2735F3AFBC58@maxify.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0702021823v66535fadq168728341349ee85@mail.gmail.com> On 2/2/07, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > > On Feb 2, 2007, at 2:40 PM, Andy Lee wrote: > > Who *did* invent the File/Edit/etc. menu convention? > > > It looks like the Apple Lisa group did, according to Bruce Horn: > http://daringfireball.net/2007/02/lies_damned_lies_and_bill_gates > > - Scot > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > Didn't Steve Jobs get that from Zerox who was working on a OS way back when? As for Bill Gates...well, I lost respect for him when XP was released, even more with Vista and this just takes the cake...he sounds very separated from todays tech judging by his stupid and sometimes even unintelligible comments he made in the interview...no wonder why Windows is really going downhill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070202/cee747d2/attachment.html From hexstar at gmail.com Fri Feb 2 18:46:57 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Sun Feb 4 08:05:49 2007 Subject: OOo native Mac version ! In-Reply-To: <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0702021846y5dd5f0a8k7cf4c366e2c5c15d@mail.gmail.com> On 2/2/07, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > > The Mac port coordinator Eric Bachard has demoed a working version of > the OOo Mac native (carbon) port ! > > People who are interrested in contributing should check the following > links: > > > http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/developers/index.html > > > > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:Aqua > > > > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:MacOSX > > > > Server : irc.freenode.net > > Channel : #ooo_macport > > Jean-Christophe Helary > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: Marie jo KOPP CASTINEL > > Date: 3 f?vrier 2007 02:50:38 HNJ > > To: dev@fr.openoffice.org > > Subject: [dev-fr] Solutions linux 2007 termin? :-( > > Reply-To: dev@fr.openoffice.org > > > > > - Eric nous a montr? en avant premi?re la version native Mac ! > > Bravo ? lui pour ce travail titanesque. et en plus "Ca marche" ;-) > > A ce sujet, un Monsieur a pos? la question : "comment contribuer au > > projet Ooo, sp?cifiquement pour le d?v Mac" > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > There already is a native OS X GUI port of OpenOffice that has been around for quite a while and has done a very good job here: http://www.neooffice.org/ ...a little to late me thinks :p -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070202/55eb6a46/attachment.html From hexstar at gmail.com Fri Feb 2 18:56:21 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Sun Feb 4 08:05:50 2007 Subject: Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual Machines In-Reply-To: References: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0702021856s1e29ccaei48a8eaca096bdef6@mail.gmail.com> On 2/2/07, Chad Leigh wrote: > > > > > I'd like to read the actual EULA. The EULA that was posted for VIsta > last Fall did not actually say that. It said that you could not boot > it in emulated environments running under Vista. > > Chad > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > Here's the vista eula :-) ... MICROSOFT SOFTWARE LICENSE TERMS WINDOWS VISTA HOME BASIC WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM WINDOWS VISTA ULTIMATE These license terms are an agreement between Microsoft Corporation (or based on where you live, one of its affiliates ) and you. Please read them. They apply to the software named above, which includes the media on which you received it, if any. The terms also apply to any Microsoft ? updates, ? supplements, ? Internet-based services, and ? support services for this software, unless other terms accompany those items. If so, those terms apply. By using the software , you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software. Instead, return it to the retailer for a refund or credit. If you cannot obtain a refund there, contact Microsoft or the Microsoft affiliate serving your country for information about Microsoft's refund policies. See www.microsoft.com/worldwide. In the United States and Canada, call (800) MICROSOFT or see www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm. As described below, using the software also operates as your consent to the transmission of certain computer information during activation, validation and for Internet-based services. If you comply with these license terms, you have the rights below for each license you acquire. 1. OVERVIEW. a. Software. The software includes desktop operating system software. This software does not include Windows Live services. Windows Live is a service available from Microsoft under a separate agreement. b. License Model. The software is licensed on a per copy per device basis. c. Edition Specific Rights. See the Additional License Terms sections at the end of this agreement for license terms that apply to specific editions of the software. 2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. Before you use the software under a license, you must assign that license to one device (physical hardware system). That device is the "licensed device." A hardware partition or blade is considered to be a separate device. a. Licensed Device. You may install one copy of the software on the licensed device. You may use the software on up to two processors on that device at one time. Except as provided in the Storage and Network Use (Ultimate edition) sections below, you may not use the software on any other device. b. Number of Users. Except as provided in the Device Connections (all editions), Remote Access Technologies (Home Basic and Home Premium editions) and Other Access Technologies (Ultimate edition) sections below, only one user may use the software at a time. c. Alternative Versions. The software may include more than one version, such as 32-bit and 64-bit. You may use only one version at one time. 3. ADDITIONAL LICENSING REQUIREMENTS AND/OR USE RIGHTS. a. Multiplexing. Hardware or software you use to ? pool connections, or ? reduce the number of devices or users that directly access or use the software (sometimes referred to as "multiplexing" or "pooling"), does not reduce the number of licenses you need. b. Font Components. While the software is running, you may use its fonts to display and print content. You may only ? embed fonts in content as permitted by the embedding restrictions in the fonts; and ? temporarily download them to a printer or other output device to print content. c. Icons, images and sounds. While the software is running, you may use but not share its icons, images, sounds, and media. 4. MANDATORY ACTIVATION. Activation associates the use of the software with a specific device. During activation, the software will send information about the software and the device to Microsoft. This information includes the version, language and product key of the software, the Internet protocol address of the device, and information derived from the hardware configuration of the device. For more information, see http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=69497. By using the software, you consent to the transmission of this information. Before you activate, you have the right to use the version of the software installed during the installation process. Your right to use the software after the time specified in the installation process is limited unless it is activated. This is to prevent its unlicensed use. You will not be able to continue using the software after that time if you do not activate it. If the device is connected to the Internet, the software may automatically connect to Microsoft for activation. You can also activate the software manually by Internet or telephone. If you do so, Internet and telephone service charges may apply. Some changes to your computer components or the software may require you to reactivate the software. The software will remind you to activate it until you do. 5. VALIDATION. a. The software will from time to time validate the software, update or require download of the validation feature of the software. Validation verifies that the software has been activated and is properly licensed. Validation also permits you to use certain features of the software or to obtain additional benefits. For more information, see http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=39157. b. During a validation check, the software will send information about the software and the device to Microsoft. This information includes the version and product key of the software, and the Internet protocol address of the device. Microsoft does not use the information to identify or contact you. By using the software, you consent to the transmission of this information. For more information about validation and what is sent during a validation check, see http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=69500. c. If, after a validation check, the software is found not to be properly licensed, the functionality of the software may be affected. For example, you may ? need to reactivate the software, or ? receive reminders to obtain a properly licensed copy of the software, or you may not be able to ? use or continue to use some of the features of the software, or ? obtain certain updates or upgrades from Microsoft. d. You may only obtain updates or upgrades for the software from Microsoft or authorized sources. For more information on obtaining updates from authorized sources see http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=69502. 6. POTENTIALLY UNWANTED SOFTWARE. If turned on, Windows Defender will search your computer for "spyware," "adware" and other potentially unwanted software. If it finds potentially unwanted software, the software will ask you if you want to ignore, disable (quarantine) or remove it. Any potentially unwanted software rated "high" or "severe," will automatically be removed after scanning unless you change the default setting. Removing or disabling potentially unwanted software may result in ? other software on your computer ceasing to work, or ? your breaching a license to use other software on your computer. By using this software, it is possible that you will also remove or disable software that is not potentially unwanted software. 7. INTERNET-BASED SERVICES. Microsoft provides Internet-based services with the software. It may change or cancel them at any time. a. Consent for Internet-Based Services. The software features described below and in the Windows Vista Privacy Statement connect to Microsoft or service provider computer systems over the Internet. In some cases, you will not receive a separate notice when they connect. You may switch off these features or not use them. For more information about these features, see the Windows Vista Privacy Statement at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=20615. By using these features, you consent to the transmission of this information. Microsoft does not use the information to identify or contact you. Computer Information. The following features use Internet protocols, which send to the appropriate systems computer information, such as your Internet protocol address, the type of operating system, browser and name and version of the software you are using, and the language code of the device where you installed the software. Microsoft uses this information to make the Internet-based services available to you. ? Windows Update Feature. You may connect new hardware to your device. Your device may not have the drivers needed to communicate with that hardware. If so, the update feature of the software can obtain the correct driver from Microsoft and install it on your device. You can switch off this update feature. ? Web Content Features. Features in the software can retrieve related content from Microsoft and provide it to you. Examples of these features are clip art, templates, online training, online assistance and Appshelp. You may choose not to use these web content features. ? Digital Certificates. The software uses digital certificates. These digital certificates confirm the identity of Internet users sending X.509 standard encrypted information. They also can be used to digitally sign files and macros, to verify the integrity and origin of the file contents. The software retrieves certificates and updates certificate revocation lists over the Internet, when available. ? Auto Root Update. The Auto Root Update feature updates the list of trusted certificate authorities. You can switch off the Auto Root Update feature. ? Windows Media Digital Rights Management. Content owners use Windows Media digital rights management technology (WMDRM) to protect their intellectual property, including copyrights. This software and third party software use WMDRM to play and copy WMDRM-protected content. If the software fails to protect the content, content owners may ask Microsoft to revoke the software's ability to use WMDRM to play or copy protected content. Revocation does not affect other content. When you download licenses for protected content, you agree that Microsoft may include a revocation list with the licenses. Content owners may require you to upgrade WMDRM to access their content. Microsoft software that includes WMDRM will ask for your consent prior to the upgrade. If you decline an upgrade, you will not be able to access content that requires the upgrade. You may switch off WMDRM features that access the Internet. When these features are off, you can still play content for which you have a valid license. ? Windows Media Player. When you use Windows Media Player, it checks with Microsoft for ? compatible online music services in your region; ? new versions of the player; and ? codecs if your device does not have the correct ones for playing content. You can switch off this last feature. For more information, go to http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=44073. ? Malicious Software Removal/Clean On Upgrade. Before installation of the software, the software will check and remove certain malicious software listed at http://www.support.microsoft.com/?kbid=890830 ("Malware") from your device. When the software checks your device for Malware, a report will be sent to Microsoft about any Malware detected or errors that occurred while the software was checking for Malware. No information that can be used to identify you is included in the report. You may disable the software's Malware reporting functionality by following the instructions found at http://www.support.microsoft.com/?kbid=890830. ? Network Connectivity Status Icon. This feature determines whether a system is connected to a network by either passive monitoring of network traffic or active DNS or HTTP queries. The query only transfers standard TCP/IP or DNS information for routing purposes. You can switch off the active query feature through a registry setting. ? Windows Time Service. This service synchronizes with time.windows.com once a week to provide your computer with the correct time. You can turn this feature off or choose your preferred time source within the Date and Time Control Panel applet. The connection uses standard NTP protocol. ? IPv6 Network Address Translation (NAT) Traversal service (Teredo). This feature helps existing home Internet gateway devices transition to IPv6. IPv6 is next generation Internet protocol. It helps enable end-to-end connectivity often needed by peer-to-peer applications. To do so, each time you start up the software the Teredo client service will attempt to locate a public Teredo Internet service. It does so by sending a query over the Internet. This query only transfers standard Domain Name Service information to determine if your computer is connected to the Internet and can locate a public Teredo service. If you ? use an application (e.g. Windows Meeting Space) that needs IPv6 connectivity or ? configure your firewall to always enable IPv6 connectivity by default standard Internet Protocol information will be sent to the Teredo service at Microsoft at regular intervals. No other information is sent to Microsoft. You can change this default to use non-Microsoft servers. You can also switch off this feature using a command line utility named "netsh". b. Use of Information. Microsoft may use the computer information, error reports, and Malware reports to improve our software and services. We may also share it with others, such as hardware and software vendors. They may use the information to improve how their products run with Microsoft software. c. Misuse of Internet-based Services. You may not use these services in any way that could harm them or impair anyone else's use of them. You may not use the services to try to gain unauthorized access to any service, data, account or network by any means. 8. SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways. For more information, see http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/userights. You may not ? work around any technical limitations in the software; ? reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, except and only to the extent that applicable law expressly permits, despite this limitation; ? use components of the software to run applications not running on the software; ? make more copies of the software than specified in this agreement or allowed by applicable law, despite this limitation; ? publish the software for others to copy; ? rent, lease or lend the software; or ? use the software for commercial software hosting services. 9. MICROSOFT .NET BENCHMARK TESTING. The software includes one or more components of the .NET Framework 3.0 (".NET Components"). You may conduct internal benchmark testing of those components. You may disclose the results of any benchmark test of those components, provided that you comply with the conditions set forth at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=66406. Notwithstanding any other agreement you may have with Microsoft, if you disclose such benchmark test results, Microsoft shall have the right to disclose the results of benchmark tests it conducts of your products that compete with the applicable .NET Component, provided it complies with the same conditions set forth at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=66406. 10. BACKUP COPY. You may make one backup copy of the media. You may use it only to reinstall the software. 11. DOCUMENTATION. Any person that has valid access to your computer or internal network may copy and use the documentation for your internal, reference purposes. 12. NOT FOR RESALE SOFTWARE. You may not sell software marked as "NFR" or "Not for Resale." 13. UPGRADES. To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade. Upon upgrade, this agreement takes the place of the agreement for the software you upgraded from. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from. 14. PROOF OF LICENSE. a. Genuine Proof of License. If you acquired the software on a disc or other media, a genuine Microsoft proof of license label with a genuine copy of the software identifies licensed software. To be valid, this label must appear on Microsoft packaging. If you receive the label separately, it is invalid. You should keep the packaging that has the label on it to prove that you are licensed to use the software. b. Windows Anytime Upgrade License. If you upgrade the software using Windows Anytime Upgrade, your proof of license is identified by ? the genuine Microsoft proof of license label for the software you upgraded from, ? a digital license stored in the digital locker at Windows Marketplace, and ? proof of purchase from a Windows Anytime Upgrade merchant that identifies the software. c. To identify genuine Microsoft software, see http://www.howtotell.com. 15. REASSIGN TO ANOTHER DEVICE. a. Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade. You may uninstall the software and install it on another device for your use. You may not do so to share this license between devices. b. Windows Anytime Upgrade Software. The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time, but only if the license terms of the software you upgraded from allows reassignment. 16. TRANSFER TO A THIRD PARTY. a. Software Other Than Windows Anytime Upgrade. The first user of the software may make a one time transfer of the software, and this agreement, directly to a third party. The first user must uninstall the software before transferring it separately from the device. The first user may not retain any copies. b. Windows Anytime Upgrade Software. You may transfer the software directly to a third party only with the licensed device. You may not keep any copies of the software or any earlier version. c. Other Requirements. Before any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and use of the software. The transfer must include the proof of license. 17. NOTICE ABOUT THE MPEG-4 VISUAL STANDARD. This software includes MPEG-4 visual decoding technology. MPEG LA, L.L.C. requires this notice: USE OF THIS PRODUCT IN ANY MANNER THAT COMPLIES WITH THE MPEG-4 VISUAL STANDARD IS PROHIBITED, EXCEPT FOR USE DIRECTLY RELATED TO (A) DATA OR INFORMATION (i) GENERATED BY AND OBTAINED WITHOUT CHARGE FROM A CONSUMER NOT THEREBY ENGAGED IN A BUSINESS ENTERPRISE, AND (ii) FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY; AND (B) OTHER USES SPECIFICALLY AND SEPARATELY LICENSED BY MPEG LA, L.L.C. If you have questions about the MPEG-4 visual standard, please contact MPEG LA, L.L.C., 250 Steele Street, Suite 300, Denver, Colorado 80206; http://www.mpegla.com. 18. NOTICE ABOUT THE VC-1 VISUAL STANDARD. This software may include VC-1 visual decoding technology. MPEG LA, L.L.C. requires this notice: THIS PRODUCT IS LICENSED UNDER THE VC-1 PATENT PORTFOLIO LICENSES FOR THE PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL USE OF A CONSUMER TO (A) ENCODE VIDEO IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE VC-1 STANDARD ("VC-1 VIDEO") OR (B) DECODE VC-1 VIDEO THAT WAS ENCODED BY A CONSUMER ENGAGED IN A PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY AND/OR WAS OBTAINED FROM A VIDEO PROVIDER LICENSED TO PROVIDE VC-1 VIDEO. NO LICENSE IS GRANTED OR SHALL BE IMPLIED FOR ANY OTHER USE. If you have questions about the VC-1 visual standard, please contact MPEG LA, L.L.C., 250 Steele Street, Suite 300, Denver, Colorado 80206; http://www.mpegla.com. 19. THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS. The software contains third party programs. The license terms with those programs apply to your use of them. 20. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. The software is subject to United States export laws and regulations. You must comply with all domestic and international export laws and regulations that apply to the software. These laws include restrictions on destinations, end users and end use. For additional information, see http://www.microsoft.com/exporting. 21. SUPPORT SERVICES. Microsoft provides support services for the software as described at http://www.support.microsoft.com/com...rnational.aspx. If you are using software that is not properly licensed, you will not be entitled to receive support services. 22. ENTIRE AGREEMENT. This agreement (including the warranty below), additional terms and the terms for supplements, updates, Internet-based services and support services that you use, are the entire agreement for the software and support services. 23. APPLICABLE LAW. a. United States. If you acquired the software in the United States, Washington state law governs the interpretation of this agreement and applies to claims for breach of it, regardless of conflict of laws principles. The laws of the state where you live govern all other claims, including claims under state consumer protection laws, unfair competition laws, and in tort. b. Outside the United States. If you acquired the software in any other country, the laws of that country apply. 24. LEGAL EFFECT. This agreement describes certain legal rights. You may have other rights under the laws of your state or country. You may also have rights with respect to the party from whom you acquired the software. This agreement does not change your rights under the laws of your state or country if the laws of your state or country do not permit it to do so. 25. LIMITATION ON AND EXCLUSION OF DAMAGES. You can recover from Microsoft and its suppliers only direct damages up to the amount you paid for the software. You cannot recover any other damages, including consequential, lost profits, special, indirect or incidental damages. This limitation applies to ? anything related to the software, services, content (including code) on third party Internet sites, or third party programs; and ? claims for breach of contract, breach of warranty, guarantee or condition, strict liability, negligence, or other tort to the extent permitted by applicable law. It also applies even if ? repair, replacement or a refund for the software does not fully compensate you for any losses; or ? Microsoft knew or should have known about the possibility of the damages. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. They also may not apply to you because your country may not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental, consequential or other damages. *************************************************************************** **** LIMITED WARRANTY A. LIMITED WARRANTY. If you follow the instructions and the software is properly licensed, the software will perform substantially as described in the Microsoft materials that you receive in or with the software. B. TERM OF WARRANTY; WARRANTY RECIPIENT; LENGTH OF ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES. The limited warranty covers the software for one year after acquired by the first user. If you receive supplements, updates, or replacement software during that year, they will be covered for the remainder of the warranty or 30 days, whichever is longer. If the first user transfers the software, the remainder of the warranty will apply to the recipient. To the extent permitted by law, any implied warranties, guarantees or conditions last only during the term of the limited warranty. Some states do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so these limitations may not apply to you. They also might not apply to you because some countries may not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty, guarantee or condition lasts. C. EXCLUSIONS FROM WARRANTY. This warranty does not cover problems caused by your acts (or failures to act), the acts of others, or events beyond Microsoft's reasonable control. D. REMEDY FOR BREACH OF WARRANTY. Microsoft will repair or replace the software at no charge. If Microsoft cannot repair or replace it, Microsoft will refund the amount shown on your receipt for the software. It will also repair or replace supplements, updates and replacement software at no charge. If Microsoft cannot repair or replace them, it will refund the amount you paid for them, if any. You must uninstall the software and return any media and other associated materials to Microsoft with proof of purchase to obtain a refund. These are your only remedies for breach of the limited warranty. E. CONSUMER RIGHTS NOT AFFECTED. You may have additional consumer rights under your local laws, which this agreement cannot change. F. WARRANTY PROCEDURES. You need proof of purchase for warranty service. 1. United States and Canada. For warranty service or information about how to obtain a refund for software acquired in the United States and Canada, contact Microsoft at ? (800) MICROSOFT; ? Microsoft Customer Service and Support, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052-6399; or ? visit http://www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm. 2. Europe, Middle East and Africa. If you acquired the software in Europe, the Middle East or Africa, Microsoft Ireland Operations Limited makes this limited warranty. To make a claim under this warranty, you should contact either ? Microsoft Ireland Operations Limited, Customer Care Centre, Atrium Building Block B, Carmanhall Road, Sandyford Industrial Estate, Dublin 18, Ireland; or ? the Microsoft affiliate serving your country (see http://www.microsoft.com/worldwide) . 3. Outside United States, Canada, Europe, Middle East and Africa. If you acquired the software outside the United States, Canada, Europe, the Middle East and Africa, contact the Microsoft affiliate serving your country (see http://www.microsoft.com/worldwide) . G. NO OTHER WARRANTIES. The limited warranty is the only direct warranty from Microsoft. Microsoft gives no other express warranties, guarantees or conditions. Where allowed by your local laws, Microsoft excludes implied warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose and non-infringement. If your local laws give you any implied warranties, guarantees or conditions, despite this exclusion, your remedies are described in the Remedy for Breach of Warranty clause above, to the extent permitted by your local laws. H. LIMITATION ON AND EXCLUSION OF DAMAGES FOR BREACH OF WARRANTY. The Limitation on and Exclusion of Damages clause above applies to breaches of this limited warranty. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state. You may also have other rights which vary from country to country. MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA HOME BASIC ADDITIONAL LICENSE TERMS. The following additional license terms apply to Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic. 1. DEVICE CONNECTIONS. You may allow up to 5 other devices to access the software installed on the licensed device to use File Services, Print Services, Internet Information Services and Internet Connection Sharing and Telephony Services. 2. REMOTE ACCESS TECHNOLOGIES. You may remotely access and use the software installed on the licensed device from another device to share a session using Remote Assistance or similar technologies. A "session" means the experience of interacting with the software, directly or indirectly, through any combination of input, output and display peripherals. 3. OTHER REMOTE USES. You may allow any number of devices to access the software installed on the licensed device for purposes other than those described in the Device Connections and Remote Access Technologies sections above, such as to synchronize data between devices. 4. USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may not use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system. MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM ADDITIONAL LICENSE TERMS. The following additional license terms apply to Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium. 1. DEVICE CONNECTIONS. You may allow up to 10 other devices to access the software installed with the licensed device to use File Services, Print Services, Internet Information Services and Internet Connection Sharing and Telephony Services. 2. REMOTE ACCESS TECHNOLOGIES. You may remotely access and use the software installed on the licensed device from another device to share a session using Remote Assistance or similar technologies. A "session" means the experience of interacting with the software, directly or indirectly, through any combination of input, output and display peripherals. 3. OTHER REMOTE USES. You may allow any number of devices to access the software installed on the licensed device for purposes other than those described in the Device Connections and Remote Access Technologies sections above, such as to synchronize data between devices. 4. USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may not use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system. 5. MEDIA CENTER EXTENDER. You may have 5 Media Center Extender Sessions (or other software or devices which provide similar functionality for a similar purpose) running at the same time to display the software user interface or content on other displays or devices. 6. ELECTRONIC PROGRAMMING GUIDE. If the software includes access to an electronic programming guide service that displays customized television listings, a separate service agreement applies to the service. If you do not agree to the terms of the service agreement, you may continue to use the software, but you will not be able to use the electronic programming guide service. The service may contain advertising content and related data, which are received and stored by the software. The service is not available in all areas. Please consult the software information for instructions on accessing the service agreement. 7. RELATED MEDIA INFORMATION. If you request related media information as part of your playback experience, the data provided to you may not be in your local language. Some countries or regions have laws and regulations which may restrict or limit your ability to access certain types of content. 8. CONSENT TO UPDATE INFRARED EMITTER/RECEIVER. The software may contain technology to ensure the proper functioning of the infrared emitter/receiver device that ships with certain Media Center-based products. By accepting these license terms, you agree that the software may update the firmware of this device. 9. WORLDWIDE USE OF THE MEDIA CENTER. Media Center is not designed for use in every country. For example, although the Media Center information may refer to certain features such as an electronic programming guide or provide information on how to configure a TV tuner, these features may not work in your area. Please refer to the Media Center information for a list of features that may not work in your area. 10. NOTICE ABOUT THE MPEG-2 VISUAL STANDARD. This software includes MPEG-2 visual decoding technology. MPEG LA, L.L.C. requires this notice: USE OF THIS PRODUCT IN ANY MANNER THAT COMPLIES WITH THE MPEG 2 VISUAL STANDARD IS PROHIBITED, EXCEPT FOR USE DIRECTLY RELATED TO (A) DATA OR INFORMATION (i) GENERATED BY AND OBTAINED WITHOUT CHARGE FROM A CONSUMER NOT THEREBY ENGAGED IN A BUSINESS ENTERPRISE, AND (ii) FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY; AND (B) OTHER USES SPECIFICALLY AND SEPARATELY LICENSED BY MPEG LA, L.L.C. If you have questions about the MPEG-2 visual standard, please contact MPEG LA, L.L.C., 250 Steele Street, Suite 300, Denver, Colorado 80206; http://www.mpegla.com. MICROSOFT WINDOWS VISTA ULTIMATE ADDITIONAL LICENSE TERMS. The following additional license terms apply to Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate. 1. STORAGE. You may store one copy of the software on a storage device, such as a network server. You may use that copy to install the software on any other device to which a license has been assigned. 2. NETWORK USE. Instead of installing the software on the licensed device, you may install one copy on a storage device, such as a network server. You may use that copy only to run the software on your licensed device over an internal network. 3. DEVICE CONNECTIONS. You may allow up to 10 other devices to access the software installed on the licensed device to use File Services, Print Services, Internet Information Services and Internet Connection Sharing and Telephony Services. 4. REMOTE ACCESS TECHNOLOGIES. You may access and use the software installed on the licensed device remotely from another device using remote access technologies as follows. ? Remote Desktop. The single primary user of the licensed device may access a session from any other device using Remote Desktop or similar technologies. A "session" means the experience of interacting with the software, directly or indirectly, through any combination of input, output and display peripherals. Other users may access a session from any device using these technologies, if the remote device is separately licensed to run the software. ? Other Access Technologies. You may use Remote Assistance or similar technologies to share an active session. 5. OTHER REMOTE USES. You may allow any number of devices to access the software installed on the licensed device for purposes other than those described in the Device Connections and Remote Access Technologies sections above, such as to synchronize data between devices. 6. USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on the licensed device. If you do so, you may not play or access content or use applications protected by any Microsoft digital, information or enterprise rights management technology or other Microsoft rights management services or use BitLocker. We advise against playing or accessing content or using applications protected by other digital, information or enterprise rights management technology or other rights management services or using full volume disk drive encryption. 7. MEDIA CENTER EXTENDER. You may have 5 Media Center Extender Sessions (or other software or devices which provide similar functionality for a similar purpose) running at the same time to display the software user interface or content on other displays or devices. 8. ELECTRONIC PROGRAMMING GUIDE. If the software includes access to an electronic programming guide service that displays customized television listings, a separate service agreement applies to the service. If you do not agree to the terms of the service agreement, you may continue to use the software, but you will not be able to use the electronic programming guide service. The service may contain advertising content and related data, which are received and stored by the software. 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For example, although the Media Center information may refer to certain features such as an electronic programming guide or provide information on how to configure a TV tuner, these features may not work in your area. Please refer to the Media Center information for a list of features that may not work in your area. 12. NOTICE ABOUT THE MPEG-2 VISUAL STANDARD. This software includes MPEG-2 visual decoding technology. MPEG LA, L.L.C. requires this notice: USE OF THIS PRODUCT IN ANY MANNER THAT COMPLIES WITH THE MPEG 2 VISUAL STANDARD IS PROHIBITED, EXCEPT FOR USE DIRECTLY RELATED TO (A) DATA OR INFORMATION (i) GENERATED BY AND OBTAINED WITHOUT CHARGE FROM A CONSUMER NOT THEREBY ENGAGED IN A BUSINESS ENTERPRISE, AND (ii) FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY; AND (B) OTHER USES SPECIFICALLY AND SEPARATELY LICENSED BY MPEG LA, L.L.C. If you have questions about the MPEG-2 visual standard, please contact MPEG LA, L.L.C., 250 Steele Street, Suite 300, Denver, Colorado 80206; http://www.mpegla.com. EULAID:VISTA_RM.0_CONSUMER_RTL_en-US btw sorry for the javascript on some of the words...since M$ has the EULA annoyingly enough in just pdf form I searched for it in non pdf form and found it posted on a forum and the forum annoyingly enough uses one of those ad networks that highlights words on webpages that match ad keywords and then when you mouse over the linked word a ad message appears...annoying yes and I apologize about that... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070202/3cf19343/attachment.html From hexstar at gmail.com Sat Feb 3 01:51:47 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Sun Feb 4 08:05:51 2007 Subject: Coders Anonymous (was Re: OOo native Mac version !) In-Reply-To: References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <90E9FC5F-7440-4D96-A588-A611E8302006@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021912q3d025923w507b7d560303e6a6@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702021914v1e6bcd5dt54867182b9e050fa@mail.gmail.com> <96532470-B241-429C-B54C-4DCAFF6ADB6E@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <0208CCB8-EA3C-4635-99D4-02547ADD0E54@objectwerks.com> <5dc6fd9e0702030037t78f2757at73a1eff9d41118f8@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702030121h36097f13vdf5e262d29989a4d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0702030151m4acaec7eu1fa875bee76d9538@mail.gmail.com> On 2/3/07, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > > > On 3 f?vr. 07, at 18:21, Hex Star wrote: > > (something that keeps going further and further from the original > message, and closer and closer to how list members perceive the > sender of these mails.) > > Did anybody write anywhere that this list was some kind of "Coders > Anonymous" chatting place for people who lack social interaction in > their everyday life ? > > Jean-Christophe_______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > There has been one OT topic recently that was openly discussed and members here have admitted that there have been some in the past as well so I do believe this list actually isn't limited to OS X discussions whether intentional or not... I mean...if you look at all of todays tech support forums you will see they have off topic areas...those that don't have little activity...that's because humans don't just want to have to stick to one topic...we all want to at one point or another talk about something else with our fellow members and thus eventually sometime or another in someplace or another there will be a OT thread...it's just how communities work...like in tech forums with no offtopic area OT posts wind up in tech threads and tech subject forum areas...it just happens no matter how mods may try...seems to be human nature perhaps.. and well I guess you may have a social life but what about those of us who don't? ;-) we gotta have a social life somewhere you know ;-) :-p -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070203/c704cc29/attachment.html From shacker at birdhouse.org Sun Feb 4 09:44:14 2007 From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Scot Hacker) Date: Sun Feb 4 09:44:24 2007 Subject: Fwd: rsync -E backups to NFS share still loses extended file attributes References: Message-ID: <6225E1ED-E39D-4A6E-8D3D-F0E0C633EF4B@birdhouse.org> Thought some of you might know the answer to this one: Begin forwarded message: > I?m searching for the answer to a question and not coming up with > much. The question is, can we rsync a filesystem from HFS+ to an > NFS share and expect to preserve extended attributes on Mac OS X? > The answer that I have come up with through testing is that we > would need to use an AFP share to preserve extended attributes. Do > you have any ideas about this? Thanks! I've tried using the -E flag on the rsync command, but it fails if the version of rsync on the remote host doesn't understand -E. Suggestions? Thanks, Scot From david at idiomatrix.com Sun Feb 4 10:00:21 2007 From: david at idiomatrix.com (David Herren) Date: Sun Feb 4 10:00:50 2007 Subject: OOo native Mac version ! In-Reply-To: <0208CCB8-EA3C-4635-99D4-02547ADD0E54@objectwerks.com> References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021846y5dd5f0a8k7cf4c366e2c5c15d@mail.gmail.com> <90E9FC5F-7440-4D96-A588-A611E8302006@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021912q3d025923w507b7d560303e6a6@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702021914v1e6bcd5dt54867182b9e050fa@mail.gmail.com> <96532470-B241-429C-B54C-4DCAFF6ADB6E@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <0208CCB8-EA3C-4635-99D4-02547ADD0E54@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: Miscegenation! On Feb 3, 2007, at 5:08 AM, Chad Leigh wrote: > There are parts of Cocoa that call into Carbon at a low level btw. /david -- david herren, shoreham, vt us na terra solsys orionarm Assuming that a bilingual person is a good translator is like assuming a person with two hands is a concert pianist. --Unknown http://www.bushorchimp.com/ From david at idiomatrix.com Sun Feb 4 10:06:37 2007 From: david at idiomatrix.com (David Herren) Date: Sun Feb 4 10:06:49 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> Message-ID: Please don't quote me, but I always felt the Word 4.0 on the Mac was a thing of beauty. Word 5.0, however.... well, I believe that's about the time that I began to use the word "anti-christ' with respect to anything coming out of redmond... On Feb 3, 2007, at 8:41 PM, Glenn Carnagey wrote: > To be fair, the early Microsoft Mac apps did help to standardize > the first top mac app menus and menu items as we know them today. > earliest versions of Word/Excel/File. I remember them more as > being among the participants in the process, but whatever. The > tearing tragedy (IMO) was how wonderfully simple and easy to use > they were, compared to their behemoth descendents, far more > productive and efficient. really sad. /david -- david herren - shoreham, vt us na terra solsys orionarm "My administration has been calling upon all the leaders in the--in the Middle East to do everything they can to stop the violence, to tell the different parties involved that peace will never happen." -George W. Bush, Crawford, TX, Aug 13, 2001 From cweldon at cerberusonline.com Sun Feb 4 09:03:20 2007 From: cweldon at cerberusonline.com (Christopher Weldon) Date: Sun Feb 4 10:22:09 2007 Subject: Home Editions Of Windows Vista Won't Run On Mac Or Linux Virtual Machines In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0702021856s1e29ccaei48a8eaca096bdef6@mail.gmail.com> References: <39A7B920-B451-4358-973F-A9DF7430E51D@mac.com> <5dc6fd9e0702021856s1e29ccaei48a8eaca096bdef6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Feb 2, 2007, at 8:56 PM, Hex Star wrote: > > > On 2/2/07, Chad Leigh wrote: > > > I'd like to read the actual EULA. The EULA that was posted for VIsta > last Fall did not actually say that. It said that you could not boot > it in emulated environments running under Vista. > > Chad > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > Here's the vista eula :-) ... --SNIP-- Hex, a link to wherever you got this would be better next time as opposed to pasting the entire EULA in an email. -- Christopher Weldon President & CEO Cerberus Interactive, Inc. cweldon@cerberusonline.com (866) 813-4603 x605 From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Feb 4 11:15:51 2007 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Sun Feb 4 11:16:06 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0702021823v66535fadq168728341349ee85@mail.gmail.com> References: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> <98F7E376-08D3-4948-AF5E-2735F3AFBC58@maxify.com> <5dc6fd9e0702021823v66535fadq168728341349ee85@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Feb 2, 2007, at 7:23 PM, Hex Star wrote: > > > On 2/2/07, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Feb 2, 2007, at 2:40 PM, Andy Lee wrote: > >> Who *did* invent the File/Edit/etc. menu convention? > > It looks like the Apple Lisa group did, according to Bruce Horn: > http://daringfireball.net/2007/02/lies_damned_lies_and_bill_gates > > - Scot > > Didn't Steve Jobs get that from Zerox who was working on a OS way > back when? No Chad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070204/eeb040df/attachment.html From charles.dyer at gmail.com Sun Feb 4 11:57:21 2007 From: charles.dyer at gmail.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Sun Feb 4 11:57:27 2007 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: The right and proper way to install Windows Vista. From glennc at mac.com Sun Feb 4 12:05:55 2007 From: glennc at mac.com (Glenn Carnagey) Date: Sun Feb 4 12:06:07 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vista) In-Reply-To: References: <5A9A4984-8B29-4530-A6E3-E0B19842C9C1@tisys.org> <279D9C8D-0B37-46B9-8E99-994770ECBF66@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7B1E9772-3D76-43EA-B0B3-4020D7E2C19C@mac.com> On Feb 4, 2007, at 12:06 PM, David Herren wrote: > Please don't quote me, but I always felt the Word 4.0 on the Mac > was a thing of beauty. Word 5.0, however.... well, I believe that's > about the time that I began to use the word "anti-christ' with > respect to anything coming out of redmond... Yes, completely agree. But Microsoft has always profited off the incompetence of its competitors. In fact, I would argue Windows '95 gained traction largely because the Mac OS was in complete freefall. I think the nadir was around 7.5.3, you just couldn't keep it running. It was not a good time to be a Mac fan. :-( I was so desperate for a decent OS I bought a cheap Acer just to run the Rhapsody DRs. Been a long strange trip. g./ > On Feb 3, 2007, at 8:41 PM, Glenn Carnagey wrote: > >> To be fair, the early Microsoft Mac apps did help to standardize >> the first top mac app menus and menu items as we know them today. >> earliest versions of Word/Excel/File. I remember them more as >> being among the participants in the process, but whatever. The >> tearing tragedy (IMO) was how wonderfully simple and easy to use >> they were, compared to their behemoth descendents, far more >> productive and efficient. really sad. From kremels at kreme.com Sun Feb 4 16:30:36 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sun Feb 4 16:30:52 2007 Subject: OOo native Mac version ! In-Reply-To: References: <45C379EE.3050804@wanadoo.fr> <19B74454-38F9-404B-989B-ED227600AF92@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021846y5dd5f0a8k7cf4c366e2c5c15d@mail.gmail.com> <90E9FC5F-7440-4D96-A588-A611E8302006@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5dc6fd9e0702021912q3d025923w507b7d560303e6a6@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0702021914v1e6bcd5dt54867182b9e050fa@mail.gmail.com> <96532470-B241-429C-B54C-4DCAFF6ADB6E@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <0208CCB8-EA3C-4635-99D4-02547ADD0E54@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On 4-Feb-2007, at 11:00, David Herren wrote: > Miscegenation! Er... there's a word you don't see every day, and a good thing too. -- #242755 a freudian slip is when you say one thing but you're really thinking about a mother. no, a freudian slip is sexy underwear your mother wears From kremels at kreme.com Sun Feb 4 16:53:48 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sun Feb 4 16:53:54 2007 Subject: Bill Gates on Vista and Apple's 'Lying' Ads (Mac OS X vs Vis