From mrhatken at mac.com Wed Aug 1 08:42:12 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Wed Aug 1 08:43:30 2007 Subject: rsync/incementral In-Reply-To: <46AE9488.4010800@paper-ape.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0707281804n265a758fv76113fda0ed6591b@mail.gmail.com> <9964C951-C52E-427C-AC5F-A431AD84293F@mac.com> <93B0E5F3-D2E1-4554-A88D-7DD4C7E5F7E6@mac.com> <598AD8C6-BE36-4E3B-BDFE-62BC2EA48921@mac.com> <46AE14AC.1080601@paper-ape.com> <46AE9488.4010800@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: Hi Steve (et al.), On 31/07/2007, at 9:46 AM, steve harley wrote: > they whom i call Ashley Aitken wrote: >> On 31/07/2007, at 12:41 AM, steve harley wrote: >>> a can't find a single mention of hard links in the RxyncX docs ... >> Sorry, I haven't got time to search the docs. Google get this: >> > > i still see no evidence that RsyncX implements the hardlink scheme; > i've used it a fair amount, but thought i might have missed this > feature; all it does as far as i know is add a GUI and some > scheduling assistance to rsync Yes, and not the best GUI in the world, but it does make it easier for some to work out the myriad of options on rsync. As well, as noted below it uses a version of rsync that is HFS+ aware (although this may be a historic thing in that MacOSX's included rsync may also now do that). From the article on macosxhints: > I had this idea of versioned backups with hardlinks, and I was > looking for a tool that used this technique -- which rsync does. > rsync is a unix tool that can mirror directories, or whole file > systems, to other directories, other file systems, and even over > the network. The rsync that comes with Mac OS X isn't HFS+-aware, > though -- it won't copy resource forks. And it requires a good > amount of manpage reading and command line fiddling to have it do > what you want to. > > Enter RsyncX. First, it provides you with an rsync version that > will copy resource forks. Second, it comes with a neat graphical UI > where you just have to point and click to tell it what you want, > and it will produce a shell script that does just that. It can even > set up a cron job for you that will execute your backup script > every night, or whenever you want to. There are some things you > should know, though, to make it work as it should. >>> >> I remember looking at that as well but I am not sure how it can >> provide complete incremental backups without using hard links (if >> complete backups are a requirement). > > hmmm, define "complete"? I didn't know how to say "it gives you the full the backed up directory structure in each incremental backup without taking up the space of another full copy of the backed up directory structure." > rdiff-backup provides incremental backups with the current full > version (mirror) immediately available and a mechanism to retrieve > previous versions via a diff As I said, I thought rdiff-backup was a good option too. I guess it only provide a full version of the current backed-up directory structure. Rsync(X) provide a full version for each backup. I hope that makes things clearer (as mud). Cheers, Ashley. From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Aug 1 11:00:37 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Wed Aug 1 11:00:37 2007 Subject: rsync/incementral In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0707281804n265a758fv76113fda0ed6591b@mail.gmail.com> <9964C951-C52E-427C-AC5F-A431AD84293F@mac.com> <93B0E5F3-D2E1-4554-A88D-7DD4C7E5F7E6@mac.com> <598AD8C6-BE36-4E3B-BDFE-62BC2EA48921@mac.com> <46AE14AC.1080601@paper-ape.com> <46AE9488.4010800@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: <46B0CA45.9020202@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Ashley Aitken wrote: > From the article on macosxhints: okay, i have read the lead on that page more carefully; it mentions hardlinks and it mentions RsyncX, but never quite puts them together to say that the script that RsyncX's Rotating Backup Assistant produces implements the complete hardlink/incremental scheme we've been discussing so i ran the assistant, looked at the result and, by Jiminy, indeed it does it; your original assertion about RsyncX is correct, it's just that details of this feature are absolutely buried the first major hint is in screen 4 of the assistant, which says "full backups that only consume disk space relative to the size of the changes", and then "each member of the backup rotation can be used for a 'restore from full backup'" (no explicit mention of the hardlinks) the script is actually rather simple, and with RsyncX's help (which could be better, yes) it's probably easier to set up than, but also a bit more limited than, rsnapshot; here's the script for a rotation of 3 for example: #rotating backup script - v1.0 rm -rf "/test2/folderset.2" mv -f "/test2/folderset.1" "/test2/folderset.2" mv -f "/test2/folderset.0" "/test2/folderset.1" time /usr/local/bin/rsync --rsync-path=/usr/local/bin/rsync -az --eahfs --showtogo --link-dest="/test2/folderset.1/" "/test1" "/test2/folderset.0/" the assistant didn't actually manage to schedule the script, but that's a small hurdle insofar as rsync is adequate i think RsyncX could help a lot of people do incremental backups; aside from the possibly irrelevant quirks of hardlinks, it's still worth noting the limitations of rsync; test of both the Tiger and RsyncX versions are in the comments here: the RsyncX version clearly preserves more (but not all) metadata; the discussion of Apple's request for Radar bugs makes me wonder if rsync will underlie Time Machine ... > As I said, I thought rdiff-backup was a good option too. I guess it > only provide a full version of the current backed-up directory > structure. Rsync(X) provide a full version for each backup. > > I hope that makes things clearer (as mud). that's clear -- i just want to point out that in my experience this level of "directness" in incremental backups is unusual; other approaches are still "complete" though they require using a catalog of some sort to get to the files, or they require working through all the backup sets to find files that weren't changed recently; in this light rdiff-backup is a hybrid of sorts -- instant access to current mirror, but catalog used for past versions From info at stevendewitt.ca Wed Aug 1 16:03:41 2007 From: info at stevendewitt.ca (Steven DeWitt) Date: Wed Aug 1 16:04:06 2007 Subject: Question on volume control Message-ID: <68F4A0CB-C50D-49F1-9EF0-3CBD60561801@stevendewitt.ca> Hi all, Possibly a dumb question: a few days ago, I noticed that when I press the "volume up" or "volume down" button on my keyboard, the volume bar appears on the screen but with a symbol underneath (circle with line through it) to indicate that the keys were disabled. (I was able to change the volume by clicking on the volume symbol at top right of screen with no problem.) A few days later, I was suddenly able to use the keyboard buttons again, but now today suddenly the problem has reappeared. How can I make it so I can use the keyboard buttons again? Thanks, Steven -- Steven DeWitt, C. Tran. (FR>EN, ES>EN, en>fr) Fredericton NB CANADA mail [at] stevendewitt [dot] ca From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Aug 1 18:55:07 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Wed Aug 1 18:55:06 2007 Subject: rsync/incementral In-Reply-To: <60573.67.155.100.130.1185818296.squirrel@webmail.rogerroger.org> References: <5dc6fd9e0707281804n265a758fv76113fda0ed6591b@mail.gmail.com> <9964C951-C52E-427C-AC5F-A431AD84293F@mac.com> <93B0E5F3-D2E1-4554-A88D-7DD4C7E5F7E6@mac.com> <598AD8C6-BE36-4E3B-BDFE-62BC2EA48921@mac.com> <46AE14AC.1080601@paper-ape.com> <60573.67.155.100.130.1185818296.squirrel@webmail.rogerroger.org> Message-ID: <46B1397B.8040500@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Roger Howard wrote: > Am going to begin testing on a much larger filesystem soon. it would be most excellent if you'd write us an update when the test results are in > Since we're > using this (if it works) for nearline/disk-to-disk, I have no need to open > hardlinked files in apps - just backup and restore. i didn't mean to imply that one should mess around with the backed up files; but neither do i know if that's the only way one might encounter problems with HFS+ hard links ... From rogerhoward at rogerroger.org Wed Aug 1 20:58:47 2007 From: rogerhoward at rogerroger.org (rogerhoward@rogerroger.org) Date: Wed Aug 1 20:58:52 2007 Subject: rsync/incementral In-Reply-To: <46B1397B.8040500@paper-ape.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0707281804n265a758fv76113fda0ed6591b@mail.gmail.com> <9964C951-C52E-427C-AC5F-A431AD84293F@mac.com> <93B0E5F3-D2E1-4554-A88D-7DD4C7E5F7E6@mac.com> <598AD8C6-BE36-4E3B-BDFE-62BC2EA48921@mac.com> <46AE14AC.1080601@paper-ape.com> <60573.67.155.100.130.1185818296.squirrel@webmail.rogerroger.org> <46B1397B.8040500@paper-ape.com> Message-ID: <80751CB4-AD3F-4AE1-8065-27782D3A9369@rogerroger.org> On Aug 1, 2007, at 6:55 PM, steve harley wrote: > they whom i call Roger Howard wrote: >> Am going to begin testing on a much larger filesystem soon. > > it would be most excellent if you'd write us an update when the > test results are in > >> Since we're >> using this (if it works) for nearline/disk-to-disk, I have no need >> to open >> hardlinked files in apps - just backup and restore. > > i didn't mean to imply that one should mess around with the backed > up files; but neither do i know if that's the only way one might > encounter problems with HFS+ hard links ... Good point... I'm curious to see how well it works when scaled up this big - I've used it at home for backups for a while with no problems, I love this approach to managing disk-based incrementals - very convenient. If HFS-based hardlinks prove to be a problem, we might just run it off a Linux box with a different filesystem. It's just a bunch of data, no real permissions issues, ACLs, resource forks, or other OSX-isms we'd be concerned about. But it's a LOT of data. For the record, we do tape too, but having a nearline copy with incrementals will be great. -R From mrhatken at mac.com Wed Aug 1 21:45:09 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Wed Aug 1 21:46:34 2007 Subject: rsync/incementral In-Reply-To: <80751CB4-AD3F-4AE1-8065-27782D3A9369@rogerroger.org> References: <5dc6fd9e0707281804n265a758fv76113fda0ed6591b@mail.gmail.com> <9964C951-C52E-427C-AC5F-A431AD84293F@mac.com> <93B0E5F3-D2E1-4554-A88D-7DD4C7E5F7E6@mac.com> <598AD8C6-BE36-4E3B-BDFE-62BC2EA48921@mac.com> <46AE14AC.1080601@paper-ape.com> <60573.67.155.100.130.1185818296.squirrel@webmail.rogerroger.org> <46B1397B.8040500@paper-ape.com> <80751CB4-AD3F-4AE1-8065-27782D3A9369@rogerroger.org> Message-ID: <02A4289D-C574-4A89-9962-84EA0B28D21F@mac.com> On 02/08/2007, at 11:58 AM, rogerhoward@rogerroger.org wrote: > > On Aug 1, 2007, at 6:55 PM, steve harley wrote: > >> they whom i call Roger Howard wrote: >>> Am going to begin testing on a much larger filesystem soon. >> >> it would be most excellent if you'd write us an update when the >> test results are in I used rsync (via RsyncX) for backing up 40GB with incremental changes of a few GBs. It worked fine. I had 50 rotating incremental backups on a networked machine. I note that setting up the hard links for a very large number of file takes time (the backups weren't the fastest) and space (particularly because they are simulated on HFS+). You may be better off with just standard incremental backups. I've since moved to using just Backup for full and incremental backups to an external Firewire drive (and that has its problems too). Cheers, Ashley. From rogerhoward at rogerroger.org Wed Aug 1 21:54:09 2007 From: rogerhoward at rogerroger.org (rogerhoward@rogerroger.org) Date: Wed Aug 1 21:54:13 2007 Subject: rsync/incementral In-Reply-To: <02A4289D-C574-4A89-9962-84EA0B28D21F@mac.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0707281804n265a758fv76113fda0ed6591b@mail.gmail.com> <9964C951-C52E-427C-AC5F-A431AD84293F@mac.com> <93B0E5F3-D2E1-4554-A88D-7DD4C7E5F7E6@mac.com> <598AD8C6-BE36-4E3B-BDFE-62BC2EA48921@mac.com> <46AE14AC.1080601@paper-ape.com> <60573.67.155.100.130.1185818296.squirrel@webmail.rogerroger.org> <46B1397B.8040500@paper-ape.com> <80751CB4-AD3F-4AE1-8065-27782D3A9369@rogerroger.org> <02A4289D-C574-4A89-9962-84EA0B28D21F@mac.com> Message-ID: On Aug 1, 2007, at 9:45 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > On 02/08/2007, at 11:58 AM, rogerhoward@rogerroger.org wrote: > >> >> On Aug 1, 2007, at 6:55 PM, steve harley wrote: >> >>> they whom i call Roger Howard wrote: >>>> Am going to begin testing on a much larger filesystem soon. >>> >>> it would be most excellent if you'd write us an update when the >>> test results are in > > I used rsync (via RsyncX) for backing up 40GB with incremental > changes of a few GBs. It worked fine. I had 50 rotating > incremental backups on a networked machine. I use it for nightlies of my ~800GB of photos and panoramas and other home projects, works like a charm at that scale. > I note that setting up the hard links for a very large number of > file takes time (the backups weren't the fastest) and space > (particularly because they are simulated on HFS+). Still much faster in every case I've seen than copying the actual data, and of course much lighter on your storage budget (I'm not sure how much space a hardlink takes on HFS+, but it's certainly much smaller than my average file size)... > > You may be better off with just standard incremental backups. I've > since moved to using just Backup for full and incremental backups > to an external Firewire drive (and that has its problems too). We use BakBone for the tape-based backups, but if rsync+hardlinks works at this scale - 28TB or so, ~20TB of large-ish files and the rest tons and tons of smaller files (<1MB) - it'll be very convenient as a mechanism for continuity in our production departments if the SAN goes down, while we rebuild and restore from tape. If rsync on OSX doesn't work well, we may still run it, just on a platform/FS which it supports better. Backup definitely won't cut it :) From ij.list at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 22:21:05 2007 From: ij.list at gmail.com (Izidor Jerebic) Date: Wed Aug 1 22:21:14 2007 Subject: rsync/incementral In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0707281804n265a758fv76113fda0ed6591b@mail.gmail.com> <9964C951-C52E-427C-AC5F-A431AD84293F@mac.com> <93B0E5F3-D2E1-4554-A88D-7DD4C7E5F7E6@mac.com> <598AD8C6-BE36-4E3B-BDFE-62BC2EA48921@mac.com> <46AE14AC.1080601@paper-ape.com> <60573.67.155.100.130.1185818296.squirrel@webmail.rogerroger.org> <46B1397B.8040500@paper-ape.com> <80751CB4-AD3F-4AE1-8065-27782D3A9369@rogerroger.org> <02A4289D-C574-4A89-9962-84EA0B28D21F@mac.com> Message-ID: <8693117B-B01B-4615-9DC5-3184A36CBFDB@gmail.com> On 2.8.2007, at 6:54, rogerhoward@rogerroger.org wrote: > > We use BakBone for the tape-based backups, but if rsync+hardlinks > works at this scale - 28TB or so, ~20TB of large-ish files and the > rest tons and tons of smaller files (<1MB) - it'll be very > convenient as a mechanism for continuity in our production > departments if the SAN goes down, while we rebuild and restore from > tape. If rsync on OSX doesn't work well, we may still run it, just > on a platform/FS which it supports better. > > Backup definitely won't cut it :) When using rsync version below 3.0.0 (which is not yet released, latest is 2.6.9), there may be problems with a large file count (not size - just the number of files), because rsync builds complete file list in memory before doing any transfer. This takes about 100 bytes per filename, so if you have enourmous number of files, it may be a problem in time and space (memory). But you can probably always separate one large backup into several smaller backups. New version of rsync (3.0), which is in the testing but not yet released, has incremental file list building and does not have this problem. There is an active mailing list dedicated to rsync (google rsync mailing list) and people there (including rsync's maintainer) are friendly and happily answer questions, so if you intend to seriously abuse rsync I suggest joining and asking there if there are problems. Maybe just describing your setup and asking for potential problems will yield useful information. izidor From kcall at mac.com Thu Aug 2 10:55:44 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Aug 2 10:55:50 2007 Subject: RADAR - need Safari 1.0 or greater Message-ID: <696C612E-C196-4536-8BC1-D1C3D924A8CC@mac.com> I'm trying to update a bug report for iWeb and I'm getting an alert from RADAR saying I need Safari 1.0 or greater. I'm using Safari 3.0.3 anybody else seeing this? AppleConnect Single Sign On AppleConnect requires Safari? 1.0 or better. K Sent from my iPhone! You know you want one! http://www.apple.com/iphone/ From kcall at mac.com Thu Aug 2 14:12:52 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Aug 2 14:12:57 2007 Subject: =?windows-1252?q?OWB=3A_There=92s_a_new_open_source_web_browser_?= =?windows-1252?q?on_the_block?= Message-ID: <1EF85637-EA2E-463B-BEB6-5C7658455623@mac.com> http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/08/new-web-browser.html There?s a new open source web browser on the block. The ?Origyn Web Browser? (OWB) is based on the open-source WebKit browser engine, the same technology behind Apple?s Safari. Sent from my iPhone! You know you want one! http://www.apple.com/iphone/ From shacker at birdhouse.org Fri Aug 3 10:49:31 2007 From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Scot Hacker) Date: Fri Aug 3 10:46:57 2007 Subject: current dir from .command scripts Message-ID: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> I'm working on a shell script that will be double-clickable, using the "rename with .command extension" trick. I've hit a snag -- can't seem to get the current working directory. Try this: #!/bin/sh basedir=$(pwd) echo $basedir Save this as test.command onto the Desktop (or anywhere but your home). Run it from the Terminal, you get, e.g. : /Users/yourname/Desktop Now, instead of running it from Terminal, double click it in Finder. You get: /Users/yourname So it seems like double-clicked shell scripts aren't able to determine the actual current working directory. Anyone know of a workaround for this? Thanks, Scot From steve at paper-ape.com Fri Aug 3 11:09:22 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Fri Aug 3 11:09:48 2007 Subject: current dir from .command scripts In-Reply-To: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> References: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> Message-ID: <46B36F52.1090901@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Scot Hacker wrote: > So it seems like double-clicked shell scripts aren't able to > determine the actual current working directory. Anyone know of a > workaround for this? opening a .command script simply opens a Terminal window and then executes the script text; it doesn't carry any directory assumptions with it, so it simply runs in the default directory for Terminal one workaround i can think of is to wrap the shell script in an AppleScript saved as an applet; the applet can find the path to itself like this: set pwd to POSIX path of (path to me as string) and pass it to the shell script like so: do shell script "~/script/myscript " & pwd From dp.chaoswerks at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 11:32:47 2007 From: dp.chaoswerks at gmail.com (David P. Henderson) Date: Fri Aug 3 11:32:56 2007 Subject: current dir from .command scripts In-Reply-To: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> References: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> Message-ID: <456C9812-0407-4C8F-BE8B-B26AED97DEE3@gmail.com> On 03 Aug 2007, at 13:49, Scot Hacker wrote: > I'm working on a shell script that will be double-clickable, using > the "rename with .command extension" trick. I've hit a snag -- > can't seem to get the current working directory. Try this: > > #!/bin/sh > basedir=$(pwd) > echo $basedir > > Save this as test.command onto the Desktop (or anywhere but your > home). Run it from the Terminal, you get, e.g. : > /Users/yourname/Desktop > > Now, instead of running it from Terminal, double click it in > Finder. You get: > /Users/yourname > > So it seems like double-clicked shell scripts aren't able to > determine the actual current working directory. Anyone know of a > workaround for this? > In a GUI what is the current working directory? ~/ seems reasonable or should it be the frontmost window? the desktop? the directory in from which the app was launched? Current working directory perhaps lacks meaning in a GUI metaphor, meaning which exists in a shell. Or maybe the current working directory in a GUI, at least on Mac OS X, should always be the desktop? I think you need to redefine what exactly you are attempting to accomplish and determine how to do that. Dave -- Chaoswerks Design "Beautiful bodies and beautiful personalities rarely go together." - Carl Jung From mgalloy at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 11:54:43 2007 From: mgalloy at gmail.com (Mike Galloy) Date: Fri Aug 3 11:54:48 2007 Subject: current dir from .command scripts In-Reply-To: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> References: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> Message-ID: <7e54baa20708031154w59609498m4d0b664560cb8b85@mail.gmail.com> On 8/3/07, Scot Hacker wrote: > > I'm working on a shell script that will be double-clickable, using > the "rename with .command extension" trick. I've hit a snag -- can't > seem to get the current working directory. Try this: > > #!/bin/sh > basedir=$(pwd) > echo $basedir > > Save this as test.command onto the Desktop (or anywhere but your > home). Run it from the Terminal, you get, e.g. : > /Users/yourname/Desktop > > Now, instead of running it from Terminal, double click it in > Finder. You get: > /Users/yourname > > So it seems like double-clicked shell scripts aren't able to > determine the actual current working directory. Anyone know of a > workaround for this? > Try: echo $0 echo `dirname $0` in your test.command file. Is one of these what you want? Mike -- www.michaelgalloy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070803/b1886813/attachment.html From shacker at birdhouse.org Fri Aug 3 12:03:20 2007 From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Scot Hacker) Date: Fri Aug 3 12:00:49 2007 Subject: current dir from .command scripts In-Reply-To: <456C9812-0407-4C8F-BE8B-B26AED97DEE3@gmail.com> References: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> <456C9812-0407-4C8F-BE8B-B26AED97DEE3@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 2007, at 11:32 AM, David P. Henderson wrote: > In a GUI what is the current working directory? ~/ seems reasonable > or should it be the frontmost window? the desktop? the directory in > from which the app was launched? Current working directory perhaps > lacks meaning in a GUI metaphor, meaning which exists in a shell. > Or maybe the current working directory in a GUI, at least on Mac OS > X, should always be the desktop? > To my mind, the directory from which the script was launched seems like it would be by far the most logical choice (exactly as if you were working from the shell). On Aug 3, 2007, at 11:54 AM, Mike Galloy wrote: > echo `dirname $0` Bingo! That nails it. Thanks heaps, Mike Galloy. Scot From kcall at mac.com Fri Aug 3 19:52:03 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Aug 3 19:52:04 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? Message-ID: What do people think we'll see from Steve on Tuesday? K Sent from my iPhone! You know you want one! http://www.apple.com/iphone/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070803/808f8cbe/attachment.html From hevans at mac.com Fri Aug 3 21:07:46 2007 From: hevans at mac.com (Hugh Evans) Date: Fri Aug 3 21:07:12 2007 Subject: Big Copies keep failing In-Reply-To: References: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> <456C9812-0407-4C8F-BE8B-B26AED97DEE3@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have a 1.5 TB HD with all my music, photos and videos on.... I am trying to back up the contents to another 1.5TB drive using the Finder (10.4.10) ... but invariably I run into file errors (a file cannot be read) or something and the copy process stops with a warning dialog box - When I acknowledge the problem - the entire copy process stops and I do not have a grasp on what has been and what has not been copied.... I would like to do a copy and if there is a file error or something the copy program simply skips to the next file and continues... some kind of feedback as to what files were skipped would be useful. Running Disk Warrior and Disk Tools does not seem to fix problem files - indeed I can go to files that erred on the "big copy" and copy them fine - one at a time.... so something strange is going on. So... I'm looking for a very forgiving "copy" program/utility - even if its from the command line... Does anyone have suggestions.... having a copy fail many hours into the process is very frustrating. Thanks for any advice hevans From hexstar at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 21:22:21 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Fri Aug 3 21:22:24 2007 Subject: Big Copies keep failing In-Reply-To: References: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> <456C9812-0407-4C8F-BE8B-B26AED97DEE3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0708032122l514bc301m173f7d2546c75fdb@mail.gmail.com> Assuming you don't have to worry about resource forks with the type of files you are dealing with you could do... cp -Rfv /Volumes/srcvolumename /Volumes/destvolumename -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070803/36aa0713/attachment.html From hexstar at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 21:25:53 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Fri Aug 3 21:25:57 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> On 8/3/07, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > What do people think we'll see from Steve on Tuesday?K > > > > > Wait, what announcement is supposed to happen on Tuesday? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070803/56deb5e8/attachment.html From mjwise at kapu.net Fri Aug 3 21:53:37 2007 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Fri Aug 3 21:53:49 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 2007, at 6:25 PM, Hex Star wrote: > On 8/3/07, Kevin Callahan wrote: >> What do people think we'll see from Steve on Tuesday? > Wait, what announcement is supposed to happen on Tuesday? Um, This One? But to answer the OP's question: 1) New displays. 2) New iMacs ... or maybe they'll be discontinued*, who knows. 3) Upgraded Mac Mini, finally. 4) New keyboard. 5) Almost certainly 10.4.11. 6) Maybe Maybe Maybe ... Leopard? 7) Maybe ... iLife '08 and iWork '08, or not. This is almost certainly dependent on Leopard. * Done right, maybe with a modest price-break, a Mac Mini + a display could replace the iMac line. Personally, my dream machine at this point would be a Core 2 Duo Mini with 802.11n and a BluRay drive. Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From hexstar at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 22:09:14 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Fri Aug 3 22:09:17 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0708032209l27588e66o6bf0aff8cccfa83c@mail.gmail.com> On 8/3/07, Michael J Wise wrote: > > On Aug 3, 2007, at 6:25 PM, Hex Star wrote: > > > On 8/3/07, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> What do people think we'll see from Steve on Tuesday? > > Wait, what announcement is supposed to happen on Tuesday? > > Um, This One? > > > > But to answer the OP's question: > > 1) New displays. > 2) New iMacs ... or maybe they'll be discontinued*, who knows. > 3) Upgraded Mac Mini, finally. > 4) New keyboard. > 5) Almost certainly 10.4.11. > 6) Maybe Maybe Maybe ... Leopard? > 7) Maybe ... iLife '08 and iWork '08, or not. This is almost > certainly dependent on Leopard. > > * Done right, maybe with a modest price-break, a Mac Mini + a display > could replace the iMac line. > > Personally, my dream machine at this point would be a Core 2 Duo Mini > with 802.11n and a BluRay drive. > > Wow, about time...if they announce new Mac Mini's all I can say is that my MacBook will be seeing itself on ebay real fast ;-) :D -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070803/a97b846c/attachment.html From mjwise at kapu.net Fri Aug 3 22:18:38 2007 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Fri Aug 3 22:18:49 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0708032209l27588e66o6bf0aff8cccfa83c@mail.gmail.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0708032209l27588e66o6bf0aff8cccfa83c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 2007, at 7:09 PM, Hex Star wrote: > Wow, about time... Therein lies a story or two, as I understand it. > if they announce new Mac Mini's all I can say is that my MacBook > will be seeing itself on ebay real fast ;-) :D Mine won't. I have room in my life for my MacBook AND a Mac Mini. Plus a few G4 Cubes, etc. Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From hexstar at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 22:20:25 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Fri Aug 3 22:20:28 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0708032209l27588e66o6bf0aff8cccfa83c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0708032220i354d3396m10a512ef7316c317@mail.gmail.com> On 8/3/07, Michael J Wise wrote: > > > > if they announce new Mac Mini's all I can say is that my MacBook > > will be seeing itself on ebay real fast ;-) :D > > Mine won't. > I have room in my life for my MacBook AND a Mac Mini. > Plus a few G4 Cubes, etc. > > Aloha mai Nai`a! > > Well not everyone is as financially fortunate as you... ;-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070803/550c523a/attachment.html From mjwise at kapu.net Fri Aug 3 22:23:40 2007 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Fri Aug 3 22:23:51 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0708032220i354d3396m10a512ef7316c317@mail.gmail.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0708032209l27588e66o6bf0aff8cccfa83c@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0708032220i354d3396m10a512ef7316c317@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 2007, at 7:20 PM, Hex Star wrote: > Well not everyone is as financially fortunate as you... ;-) Hey, **I'M** not as financially fortunate as you think I am. I didn't say I'd be buying it on Tuesday. I'd probably have to wait for a month or so to save up. Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From hexstar at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 22:24:48 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Fri Aug 3 22:24:51 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0708032209l27588e66o6bf0aff8cccfa83c@mail.gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0708032220i354d3396m10a512ef7316c317@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0708032224g79030c4fyd433f241441aa9ba@mail.gmail.com> On 8/3/07, Michael J Wise wrote: > > On Aug 3, 2007, at 7:20 PM, Hex Star wrote: > > > Well not everyone is as financially fortunate as you... ;-) > > Hey, **I'M** not as financially fortunate as you think I am. > I didn't say I'd be buying it on Tuesday. > I'd probably have to wait for a month or so to save up. > > Aloha mai Nai`a! > > Oh :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070803/91d15d97/attachment.html From hexstar at gmail.com Fri Aug 3 22:57:34 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Fri Aug 3 22:57:37 2007 Subject: current dir from .command scripts In-Reply-To: References: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> <456C9812-0407-4C8F-BE8B-B26AED97DEE3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0708032257s514f2013pcc7b9dba17a95461@mail.gmail.com> On 8/3/07, Scot Hacker wrote: > > > On Aug 3, 2007, at 11:54 AM, Mike Galloy wrote: > > echo `dirname $0` > > Bingo! That nails it. Thanks heaps, Mike Galloy. > > Scot > > Is something wrong with my syntax and if so what? Thanks! :) Last login: Fri Aug 3 22:10:25 on ttyp1 Welcome to Darwin! macminis-computer:~ hexstar$ echo `dirname $0` dirname: illegal option -- b usage: dirname path -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070803/3af8ea38/attachment.html From carlile at mac.com Fri Aug 3 23:55:33 2007 From: carlile at mac.com (Don Carlile) Date: Fri Aug 3 23:55:40 2007 Subject: Big Copies keep failing In-Reply-To: References: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> <456C9812-0407-4C8F-BE8B-B26AED97DEE3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <25565C47-755D-4F5F-AC38-19AE1F0229CB@mac.com> I always recommend SuperDuper. (http://www.shirt-pocket.com). You can be sure you have a clean clone. And if you pay the nominal fee, it will do incrementals for you. Don Carlile On Aug 3, 2007, at 9:07 PM, Hugh Evans wrote: > I have a 1.5 TB HD with all my music, photos and videos on.... I am > trying to back up the contents to another 1.5TB drive using the > Finder (10.4.10) ... but invariably I run into file errors (a file > cannot be read) or something and the copy process stops with a > warning dialog box - When I acknowledge the problem - the entire > copy process stops and I do not have a grasp on what has been and > what has not been copied.... > > I would like to do a copy and if there is a file error or something > the copy program simply skips to the next file and continues... > some kind of feedback as to what files were skipped would be useful. > > Running Disk Warrior and Disk Tools does not seem to fix problem > files - indeed I can go to files that erred on the "big copy" and > copy them fine - one at a time.... so something strange is going on. > > So... I'm looking for a very forgiving "copy" program/utility - > even if its from the command line... > > Does anyone have suggestions.... having a copy fail many hours > into the process is very frustrating. > > > Thanks for any advice > > hevans > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From kremels at kreme.com Sat Aug 4 05:59:38 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat Aug 4 05:59:44 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1AE70718-58DE-4D6C-A09D-535C4A85E4BA@kreme.com> On 3-Aug-2007, at 20:52, Kevin Callahan wrote: > What do people think we'll see from Steve on Tuesday? New iMacs and a release date for Leopard. Oh, and maybe iLife/iWork 07 (08?) I HOPE there is also a refresh to the MacBooks so I can buy one and a refresh for the mini so I can buy one of them too. -- This is our music from the bachelor's den, the sound of loneliness turned up to ten. A harsh soundtrack from a stagnant waterbed and it sounds just like this. This is the sound of someone losing the plot, making out that they're OK when they're not. You're gonna like it, but not a lot. And the chorus goes like this... From kremels at kreme.com Sat Aug 4 06:11:57 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sat Aug 4 06:12:01 2007 Subject: Big Copies keep failing In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0708032122l514bc301m173f7d2546c75fdb@mail.gmail.com> References: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> <456C9812-0407-4C8F-BE8B-B26AED97DEE3@gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0708032122l514bc301m173f7d2546c75fdb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5FB9CB49-8EF7-47A5-8B3B-31060D29A332@kreme.com> On 3-Aug-2007, at 22:22, Hex Star wrote: > cp -Rfv /Volumes/srcvolumename /Volumes/destvolumename wtf? -f? why would you use -f? besides, if you are going to use cp for something like this you really probably want to use -p to preserve as much metadata as possible. Also, the cp command in Tiger copies resource forks without a problem. If I could find a resource fork file I'd test to be sure, but I can't find one. Oh, wait, text clippings use resource forks, right? $ ls -ls wtf\?\ \ -f\?\ why\ would\ you\ use\ .textClipping 16 -rw-r--r-- 1 kreme kreme 0 Aug 4 07:07 wtf? -f? why would you use .textClipping $ cp wtf\?\ \ -f\?\ why\ would\ you\ use\ .textClipping test.clipping $ ls -ls test.clipping 16 -rw-r--r-- 1 kreme kreme 0 Aug 4 07:08 test.clipping $ ls -ls test.clipping/rsrc 16 -rw-r--r-- 1 kreme kreme 4779 Aug 4 07:08 test.clipping/rsrc $ ls -ls wtf\?\ \ -f\?\ why\ would\ you\ use\ .textClipping/rsrc 16 -rw-r--r-- 1 kreme kreme 4779 Aug 4 07:07 wtf? -f? why would you use .textClipping/rsrc $ diff wtf\?\ \ -f\?\ why\ would\ you\ use\ .textClipping test.clipping $ diff wtf\?\ \ -f\?\ why\ would\ you\ use\ .textClipping/rsrc test.clipping/rsrc $ Still, I would do the following instead: rsync -av > ~/rsync.log & then I would look at rsync.log when the 'copy' is done for any failures. -- It's Tchaikovsky's 'Another One Bites the Dust'," said Crowley, closing his eyes as they went through Slough. From aglee at mac.com Sat Aug 4 07:04:35 2007 From: aglee at mac.com (Andy Lee) Date: Sat Aug 4 07:05:07 2007 Subject: current dir from .command scripts In-Reply-To: <5dc6fd9e0708032257s514f2013pcc7b9dba17a95461@mail.gmail.com> References: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> <456C9812-0407-4C8F-BE8B-B26AED97DEE3@gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0708032257s514f2013pcc7b9dba17a95461@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <413ED0E3-96DA-4DDF-BC87-700681D2F60E@mac.com> $0, $1, $2 etc. is replaced by the shell with the nth argument to the current command. The zeroth argument, $0, is the command name itself, which is bash when you enter commands in your Terminal window. If you do "echo $0" at the shell, you get "-bash". (I don't know why it's that instead of "/bin/bash".) So "dirname $0" expands to "dirname -bash". Putting backticks around "dirname $0" causes "dirname -bash" to be evaluated by the shell. The shell thinks you are trying to pass a -b option to dirname, which it doesn't support. If you were to include "echo `dirname $0`" in a *script*, it would succeed, because the "zeroth" argument to the script is the path to the script file. --Andy On Aug 4, 2007, at 1:57 AM, Hex Star wrote: > > > On 8/3/07, Scot Hacker wrote: > On Aug 3, 2007, at 11:54 AM, Mike Galloy wrote: > > echo `dirname $0` > > Bingo! That nails it. Thanks heaps, Mike Galloy. > > Scot > > > Is something wrong with my syntax and if so what? Thanks! :) > > Last login: Fri Aug 3 22:10:25 on ttyp1 > Welcome to Darwin! > macminis-computer:~ hexstar$ echo `dirname $0` > dirname: illegal option -- b > usage: dirname path > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From shacker at birdhouse.org Sat Aug 4 08:07:28 2007 From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Hacker Scot) Date: Sat Aug 4 08:07:25 2007 Subject: current dir from .command scripts In-Reply-To: <413ED0E3-96DA-4DDF-BC87-700681D2F60E@mac.com> References: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> <456C9812-0407-4C8F-BE8B-B26AED97DEE3@gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0708032257s514f2013pcc7b9dba17a95461@mail.gmail.com> <413ED0E3-96DA-4DDF-BC87-700681D2F60E@mac.com> Message-ID: <6D178560-7455-4790-AE52-04EDF7E60089@birdhouse.org> On Aug 4, 2007, at 7:04 AM, Andy Lee wrote: > $0, $1, $2 etc. is replaced by the shell with the nth argument to > the current command. The zeroth argument, $0, is the command name > itself, which is bash when you enter commands in your Terminal window. > > If you do "echo $0" at the shell, you get "-bash". (I don't know > why it's that instead of "/bin/bash".) So "dirname $0" expands to > "dirname -bash". Putting backticks around "dirname $0" causes > "dirname -bash" to be evaluated by the shell. The shell thinks you > are trying to pass a -b option to dirname, which it doesn't support. > > If you were to include "echo `dirname $0`" in a *script*, it would > succeed, because the "zeroth" argument to the script is the path to > the script file. Interestingly, the echo `dirname $0` trick gives the full working path for .command scripts that are double-clicked, but just "." (current dir) for the same script run from the shell. My script is designed to be double clicked, so this largely solved it for me, but just in case, I'll have to build in some logic to determine whether it's being double-clicked or run from the shell, using pwd to get the path if dirname $0 evaluates to "." Funny business. ./s From kcall at mac.com Sat Aug 4 09:03:19 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Sat Aug 4 09:03:26 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: <1AE70718-58DE-4D6C-A09D-535C4A85E4BA@kreme.com> References: <1AE70718-58DE-4D6C-A09D-535C4A85E4BA@kreme.com> Message-ID: <960A3A01-D597-4200-80DA-4A442E7E5E69@mac.com> Sent from my iPhone http://www.apple.com/iphone On Aug 4, 2007, at 5:59 AM, LuKreme wrote: > On 3-Aug-2007, at 20:52, Kevin Callahan wrote: >> What do people think we'll see from Steve on Tuesday? > > New iMacs and a release date for Leopard. Oh, and maybe iLife/iWork > 07 (08?) > > I HOPE there is also a refresh to the MacBooks Didn't they update the speed of MBs pretty recently? > so I can buy one and a refresh for the mini so I can buy one of them > too. Definitely a mini! I know several people who have been waiting 6 months for a real Media center based on a mini > > > > -- > This is our music from the bachelor's den, the sound of loneliness > turned up to ten. A harsh soundtrack from a stagnant waterbed and > it sounds just like this. This is the sound of someone losing the > plot, making out that they're OK when they're not. You're gonna > like it, but not a lot. And the chorus goes like this... > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From macsrwe at macsrwe.com Sat Aug 4 12:13:42 2007 From: macsrwe at macsrwe.com (Macs R We) Date: Sat Aug 4 12:48:24 2007 Subject: current dir from .command scripts In-Reply-To: <20070803190004.90F131A0476@forums.omnigroup.com> References: <20070803190004.90F131A0476@forums.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: Sounds to me like you misunderstand what "current working directory" means. It does not mean the directory in which the application is located, it means the directory the user is using for his current base of operations. When you execute the command from the Terminal it gives the desired results only because you, too, are "sitting at" the Desktop. But if you "cd" anyplace else and then execute the command by absolute or relative pathname, you will see that the result is wherever you have just cd'ed to, and not the Desktop. All your experiment shows is that the working directory of a user using the GUI is his home directory. On Aug 3, 2007, at 12:00 PM, macosx-talk-request@omnigroup.com wrote: > From: Scot Hacker > I'm working on a shell script that will be double-clickable, using > the "rename with .command extension" trick. I've hit a snag -- can't > seem to get the current working directory. Try this: > > #!/bin/sh > basedir=$(pwd) > echo $basedir > > Save this as test.command onto the Desktop (or anywhere but your > home). Run it from the Terminal, you get, e.g. : > /Users/yourname/Desktop > > Now, instead of running it from Terminal, double click it in > Finder. You get: > /Users/yourname > > So it seems like double-clicked shell scripts aren't able to > determine the actual current working directory. Anyone know of a > workaround for this? -- Macs R We -- Personal Macintosh Service and Support in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas. http://macsrwe.com From hexstar at gmail.com Sat Aug 4 14:05:34 2007 From: hexstar at gmail.com (Hex Star) Date: Sat Aug 4 14:05:36 2007 Subject: current dir from .command scripts In-Reply-To: <413ED0E3-96DA-4DDF-BC87-700681D2F60E@mac.com> References: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> <456C9812-0407-4C8F-BE8B-B26AED97DEE3@gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0708032257s514f2013pcc7b9dba17a95461@mail.gmail.com> <413ED0E3-96DA-4DDF-BC87-700681D2F60E@mac.com> Message-ID: <5dc6fd9e0708041405w1b7f25cp21aec405cc73d547@mail.gmail.com> On 8/4/07, Andy Lee wrote: > > $0, $1, $2 etc. is replaced by the shell with the nth argument to the > current command. The zeroth argument, $0, is the command name > itself, which is bash when you enter commands in your Terminal window. > > If you do "echo $0" at the shell, you get "-bash". (I don't know why > it's that instead of "/bin/bash".) So "dirname $0" expands to > "dirname -bash". Putting backticks around "dirname $0" causes > "dirname -bash" to be evaluated by the shell. The shell thinks you > are trying to pass a -b option to dirname, which it doesn't support. > > If you were to include "echo `dirname $0`" in a *script*, it would > succeed, because the "zeroth" argument to the script is the path to > the script file. > > --Andy > > Ah I see, thanks for clarifying this for me. :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070804/bcf0c6ac/attachment.html From shacker at birdhouse.org Sat Aug 4 14:31:07 2007 From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Hacker Scot) Date: Sat Aug 4 14:31:00 2007 Subject: current dir from .command scripts In-Reply-To: References: <20070803190004.90F131A0476@forums.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: On Aug 4, 2007, at 12:13 PM, Macs R We wrote: > Sounds to me like you misunderstand what "current working > directory" means. It's true - I'm not understanding this part. > It does not mean the directory in which the application is located, Right - I can see that it doesn't mean that. The question is *why* not? > it means the directory the user is using for his current base of > operations. When you execute the command from the Terminal it > gives the desired results only because you, too, are "sitting at" > the Desktop. But if you "cd" anyplace else and then execute the > command by absolute or relative pathname, you will see that the > result is wherever you have just cd'ed to, and not the Desktop. > > All your experiment shows is that the working directory of a user > using the GUI is his home directory. I can see that that's true, but I don't see why. If I were writing a GUI app and it had to find its current location, my "reasonable expectation" (note the quotes) is that there would be something in the API that would let it get at that information. Similarly, I would expect Finder and Terminal to have a secret handshake so that Terminal would be able to pass the current location into the shell as an environment variable -- so that pwd, and any relative path references in a .command script would work regardless the location of the script. Ultimately it doesn't matter since I've got a workable workaround now. I suppose if ".command" usage were more common, something like this would have been added to Terminal by now, since it inhibits the usefulness of double-clickable scripts. It is at least conceptually possible that Terminal could pass this information into the shell, isn't it? ./s From michael.hallsted at gmail.com Sat Aug 4 22:23:49 2007 From: michael.hallsted at gmail.com (Michael Hallsted) Date: Sat Aug 4 22:23:53 2007 Subject: Big Copies keep failing In-Reply-To: References: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> <456C9812-0407-4C8F-BE8B-B26AED97DEE3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2b5fbc510708042223v2530c7a7p92ea9507dcc98b37@mail.gmail.com> On 8/3/07, Hugh Evans wrote: > So... I'm looking for a very forgiving "copy" program/utility - even > if its from the command line... > > Does anyone have suggestions.... 2 suggestions... just use a backup program, mimmac, synk, and syncupX come to mind, but there are many more out there. backup programs are made for this sort of stuff. the other suggestion is to use a file manager like mucommander. i would think mucommander would do the trick just fine. good luck with it. michael hallsted From mgalloy at gmail.com Sat Aug 4 23:45:35 2007 From: mgalloy at gmail.com (Mike Galloy) Date: Sat Aug 4 23:45:39 2007 Subject: current dir from .command scripts In-Reply-To: <6D178560-7455-4790-AE52-04EDF7E60089@birdhouse.org> References: <0AD4080F-AEBF-48A6-A78F-51C6E2DF4249@birdhouse.org> <456C9812-0407-4C8F-BE8B-B26AED97DEE3@gmail.com> <5dc6fd9e0708032257s514f2013pcc7b9dba17a95461@mail.gmail.com> <413ED0E3-96DA-4DDF-BC87-700681D2F60E@mac.com> <6D178560-7455-4790-AE52-04EDF7E60089@birdhouse.org> Message-ID: <7e54baa20708042345j43f4463agbec648aea919c2ba@mail.gmail.com> On 8/4/07, Hacker Scot wrote: > Interestingly, the > > echo `dirname $0` > > trick gives the full working path for .command scripts that are > double-clicked, but just "." (current dir) for the same script run > from the shell. My script is designed to be double clicked, so this > largely solved it for me, but just in case, I'll have to build in > some logic to determine whether it's being double-clicked or run from > the shell, using pwd to get the path if dirname $0 evaluates to "." Be careful because $0 won't always be "." when called from the shell. It will be the path used to call the script. So for example, if test.command is in ~/Desktop and my shell's current directory is ~, when I call the script with: ~$ Desktop/test.command then $0 will be "Desktop/test.command" (and `dirname $0` will be "Desktop"). (If I'm in the same directory as the script, then I will get the "." like you mention.) When you double-click on a .command file, it is just shorthand for starting Terminal, calling the script with a full path to the .command file, and then issuing the exit command. So in this case, $0 is always an absolute path. -Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070805/ba8a5913/attachment.html From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sun Aug 5 05:04:34 2007 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz) Date: Sun Aug 5 05:04:44 2007 Subject: Old Mac Keyboards No Longer Shipping, New iMacs Probably Coming Message-ID: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/rumor/old-mac-keyboards-no-longer-shipping-new-ones-coming-286101.php Can't wait for new iMacs. j. From macsrwe at macsrwe.com Sun Aug 5 13:25:07 2007 From: macsrwe at macsrwe.com (Macs R We) Date: Sun Aug 5 13:25:14 2007 Subject: current dir from .command scripts In-Reply-To: <20070805190005.ED9261A141F@forums.omnigroup.com> References: <20070805190005.ED9261A141F@forums.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: On Aug 5, 2007, at 12:00 PM, macosx-talk-request@omnigroup.com wrote: >> Sounds to me like you misunderstand what "current working >> directory" means. > > It's true - I'm not understanding this part. > >> It does not mean the directory in which the application is located, > > Right - I can see that it doesn't mean that. The question is *why* > not? Ancient, ancient UNIX convention, harking back to Multics in the mid '60s. The directory the user is "sitting" at is much more important concept than the directory the command is sitting at. Say you typed the command: more subdir/myfile In order to display this file, more doesn't need to know what directory "more" is sitting in, it needs to know what directory the user is "sitting" in so that it knows where to look for subdir. The concept of "the directory the user is sitting in" has orders of magnitude more utility than "the directory the command is sitting in," and so that is what the working directory means. Plus, realize that "the directory that the command is sitting in" is a meaningless concept in the UNIX file system, given the existence of hard links. A command can be located "equally" in two distinct directories if the proper hard links are set up. (Do you recall the little dance that Jaguar Restore Permissions used to do every time you ran it -- first "fixing" the access on more, and then "fixing" the access to a different value on less, not realizing that less was simply a hard link to more and one would immediately inherit the access of the other? That's the same class of problem.) The Multics OS used to have an API a program could call to get its own pathname. Because of the hard link issue, the UNIX OS never did. There was an API you could use to get the current program's inode, instead. Otherwise, the best you could do was to canoodle with the shell (via things like $0) and ask it "how did you invoke me?" -- Macs R We -- Personal Macintosh Service and Support in the Wickenburg and far Northwest Valley Areas. http://macsrwe.com From kremels at kreme.com Sun Aug 5 15:17:18 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Sun Aug 5 15:17:28 2007 Subject: Old Mac Keyboards No Longer Shipping, New iMacs Probably Coming In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5-Aug-2007, at 06:04, Jesus Diaz wrote: > Can't wait for new iMacs. I'm far more anxious for a new mini, and I am still not convinced that Apple isn't going to EOL it. What about iPods, anyone think they are coming on Tuesday? -- Just give us a kiss to celebrate here, today. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sun Aug 5 15:51:42 2007 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz) Date: Sun Aug 5 15:51:59 2007 Subject: Old Mac Keyboards No Longer Shipping, New iMacs Probably Coming In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0ED6F87F-E20F-4015-9F9D-75D40E9DA6B5@apinet.es> Everyone I talk to is saying September, but who knows. As I always, never trust rumors. I myself got duped by someone today re. Tuesday's announcements. j. On Aug 6, 2007, at 12:17 AM, LuKreme wrote: > On 5-Aug-2007, at 06:04, Jesus Diaz wrote: >> Can't wait for new iMacs. > > I'm far more anxious for a new mini, and I am still not convinced > that Apple isn't going to EOL it. > > What about iPods, anyone think they are coming on Tuesday? > > -- > Just give us a kiss to celebrate here, today. > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From scott at cocoadoc.com Sun Aug 5 20:00:43 2007 From: scott at cocoadoc.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Sun Aug 5 20:00:47 2007 Subject: Old Mac Keyboards No Longer Shipping, New iMacs Probably Coming In-Reply-To: <0ED6F87F-E20F-4015-9F9D-75D40E9DA6B5@apinet.es> References: <0ED6F87F-E20F-4015-9F9D-75D40E9DA6B5@apinet.es> Message-ID: <4B09F2C7-02F6-446E-8222-F09ADE326A50@cocoadoc.com> On Aug 5, 2007, at 6:51 PM, Jesus Diaz wrote: > As I always, never trust rumors. I myself got duped by someone today > re. Tuesday's announcements. one of these sentences simply doesn't jibe with the other.. you obviously trust them when you think you'll make 'headlines'. but either way you still get the eye-balls, right? From kcall at mac.com Mon Aug 6 11:32:48 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Mon Aug 6 11:32:44 2007 Subject: Making Safari appear to be IE/Windows for MLS site Message-ID: We've been house hunting lately ... I bring the iPhone along with us having bookmarked locations using iPhone's Maps app. Without exception, my wife ends up exploring the house while I end up giving an iPhone demo to the realtor who's hosting the open-house. In every case, the realtor is amazed, wow'd, blown away -- UNTIL they ask to see how well the phone works with http://www.nwmls.com when you hit the site via iPhone (or Safari for desktop) , you get: "JavaScript is not enabled" and if you are lucky, you'll get a subsequent screen saying you need to be using Windows and IE 5.0 or higher That usually kills the deal for iPhone -- (in fact, it kills the deal for realtors buying Macs in general) otherwise, the realtor's are exclaiming with delight how the iPhone would be great for their business We all know that instead of these realtors buying the iPhone and then complaining to those who run the MLS listings, they just won't buy the iPhone. I'm wondering how to change the user agent on Safari, at least on the desktop, to say it's IE./Win .. is that possible ? Sent from my iPhone! You know you want one! http://www.apple.com/iphone/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070806/7dba5cc3/attachment.html From cwilbur at gmail.com Mon Aug 6 11:50:49 2007 From: cwilbur at gmail.com (Charlton Wilbur) Date: Mon Aug 6 11:51:07 2007 Subject: Making Safari appear to be IE/Windows for MLS site In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74FB0B01-C945-402F-B085-D42A5E20A628@gmail.com> On Aug 6, 2007, at 2:32 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > We all know that instead of these realtors buying the iPhone and > then complaining to those who run the MLS listings, they just won't > buy the iPhone. > > I'm wondering how to change the user agent on Safari, at least on > the desktop, to say it's IE./Win .. > is that possible ? It's not sufficient; the MLS software makes heavy use of ActiveX objects that only work in IE/Win. Been there, done that, with my mother the real estate agent. You can specify the user-agent in the Debug menu of Safari, though - I don't recall how to do that off the top of my head, but google should find it OK. Charlton -- Charlton Wilbur cwilbur@gmail.com cwilbur@chromatico.net From kcall at mac.com Mon Aug 6 12:17:28 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Mon Aug 6 12:17:30 2007 Subject: MS's WEB - Photosynth (to be used by NASA) only works on Windows Message-ID: <5300D409-A597-4879-8025-4572A5E92B83@mac.com> Microsoft has been through many launches -- but never like this. NASA says it will use Microsoft's unusual Photosynth photo presentation program to give the public a unique view of the space shuttle Endeavour as it was prepped for liftoff, set for later this week. Depending on the level of public interest, the collaboration could give the technology a higher profile. Microsoft plans to ultimately incorporate Photosynth into its online consumer offerings Photosynth can display hundreds of standard photos inside a Web browser at the angles they were taken and in the positions they would appear in the real world. Combined, they effectively create a three- dimensional scene that people can navigate quickly by clicking on individual photos and zooming around the screen. From kcall at mac.com Mon Aug 6 18:59:48 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Mon Aug 6 18:59:54 2007 Subject: Keyspan TuneView remote for iTunes Message-ID: <5D03D876-7E16-47E3-B0F6-8BE87DC9E0D5@mac.com> A bunch of us have been wanting to see Bonjour and remote control features for iPhone, but it's great to see Keyspan offering TuneView. I'd like to carry one device, though -- so for iPhone users, anyone interested in an iPhone Remote for FrontRow should RADAR it. of course: "Why not just use a bluetooth phone with the salling clicker software? You can even see the album art on your phone as you play songs. " supports 300 devices: -No LG phones are supported at this time. -Apple iPhone currently does not support 3rd-party applications. -We're investigating support for select Blackberry devices. Kevin Sent from my iPhone You know you want one! http://www.apple.com/iphone/ From aglee at mac.com Tue Aug 7 15:05:45 2007 From: aglee at mac.com (Andy Lee) Date: Tue Aug 7 15:06:02 2007 Subject: Does Numbers support VBA? Message-ID: I see that "Numbers handily imports spreadsheets created in earlier Excel formats," but I don't see any mention of support for VBA, or lack of it. I'm guessing it's not there, or else they'd mention it. Is it mentioned somewhere that I've overlooked? The answer doesn't really matter to me. I'm just curious. It would be quite a feat if Apple could provide the VBA support that Microsoft won't. --Andy From mjwise at kapu.net Tue Aug 7 20:21:08 2007 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Tue Aug 7 20:21:21 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 2007, at 6:53 PM, Michael J Wise wrote: > 1) New displays. Nope. > 2) New iMacs ... or maybe they'll be discontinued*, who knows. Yup. > 3) Upgraded Mac Mini, finally. YEAY! > 4) New keyboard. Yup. > 5) Almost certainly 10.4.11. /me checks Software Update. Again. Nope. But there IS a "Front Row Update". > 6) Maybe Maybe Maybe ... Leopard? Nope. > 7) Maybe ... iLife '08 and iWork '08, or not. This is almost > certainly dependent on Leopard. Yup. > Personally, my dream machine at this point would be a Core 2 Duo > Mini with 802.11n and a BluRay drive. One out of three. Oh well. I'll still take it. But since I have a DVD burner in the MacBook, no need for anything but the $599 one. /me starts saving his pennies. Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From mrhatken at mac.com Tue Aug 7 20:48:28 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Tue Aug 7 20:50:35 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> Yep, Mac mini lives! Who were those pessimists writing it off ... ;-) Of course, the graphics chip doesn't seem to have improved. It has been noted that the Mac mini with Core Duo had worse graphics performance than the original (?) G4 Mac mini. Do people still think this will be the case with the Core 2 Duo and GMA? I assume so since I don't believe the CPU has much to do with the GPU operation. Cheers, Ashley. From mrhatken at mac.com Tue Aug 7 21:14:36 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Tue Aug 7 21:15:16 2007 Subject: New iMac Glass? Message-ID: Howdy All, Does anyone know if the glass (SiO2 as Steve mentioned ;-) on the new iMac covers the whole screen or is just used around the borders? I find it hard to tell from the photos. Personally, I think it would be great to cover the whole screen, make it much less resistant to damage (scratches and the like) without losing much brightness etc. Thanks, Ashley. PS On a different note, I am not convinced these keyboards are better (the flat keys with shorter action) but I am sure MacBook owner's will swear by them ... Cheaper yes, better, not sure. From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Tue Aug 7 21:18:52 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Tue Aug 7 21:19:02 2007 Subject: New iMac Glass? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BD6A559-0323-45DF-9116-254AF87F7EB7@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> On 8 ao?t 07, at 13:14, Ashley Aitken wrote: > PS On a different note, I am not convinced these keyboards are > better (the flat keys with shorter action) but I am sure MacBook > owner's will swear by them ... Cheaper yes, better, not sure. I work with an external Apple kb and use my MB's KB only when I take it away and (besides for the heat) I find the easy of use "dramatically improved" as Jobs would put it. The Apple kb is just too hard in the end. I think I'm going to get one of those wireless things. Jean-Christophe From mjwise at kapu.net Tue Aug 7 21:19:46 2007 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Tue Aug 7 21:19:59 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> Message-ID: On Aug 7, 2007, at 5:48 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > Who were those pessimists writing it off ... ;-) Well... if you read between the lines of The Steve's announcement... This is only a reprieve. Oh well. So ... like ... when are we getting a BluRay-capable (ie, can PLAY a BluRay disk) Mac, anyway? Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From pcoskren at mac.com Tue Aug 7 21:26:24 2007 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Tue Aug 7 21:26:42 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> Message-ID: <0BFD0E0E-DF8E-4E43-B7CF-9E91C36C3049@mac.com> On Aug 8, 2007, at 12:19 AM, Michael J Wise wrote: > On Aug 7, 2007, at 5:48 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >> Who were those pessimists writing it off ... ;-) > > Well... if you read between the lines of The Steve's announcement... > This is only a reprieve. > Oh well. How so? -Patrick From kcall at mac.com Tue Aug 7 22:15:36 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Tue Aug 7 22:15:26 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> Message-ID: On Aug 7, 2007, at 8:48 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > Yep, Mac mini lives! well .. you have to admit, it was a less than stellar upgrade i won't be buying one as a media center (as my friends/family members who thought they would won't as well) > > Who were those pessimists writing it off ... ;-) I'm writing it off. K > > Of course, the graphics chip doesn't seem to have improved. > > It has been noted that the Mac mini with Core Duo had worse > graphics performance than the original (?) G4 Mac mini. Do people > still think this will be the case with the Core 2 Duo and GMA? I > assume so since I don't believe the CPU has much to do with the GPU > operation. > > Cheers, > Ashley. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk Sent from my iPhone! You know you want one! http://www.apple.com/iphone/ From kremels at kreme.com Tue Aug 7 22:29:14 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Tue Aug 7 22:29:29 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3C4AC5F4-68D6-45CE-8E57-5FEE2ACCF156@kreme.com> On 7-Aug-2007, at 21:21, Michael J Wise wrote: >> Personally, my dream machine at this point would be a Core 2 Duo >> Mini with 802.11n and a BluRay drive. > > One out of three. It's a C2D, shoudln't it be able to do 802.11n? -- I'm no psychologist (although I play one when I'm picking up chicks over by the asylum) From kcall at mac.com Tue Aug 7 22:32:23 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Tue Aug 7 22:32:35 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: <3C4AC5F4-68D6-45CE-8E57-5FEE2ACCF156@kreme.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <3C4AC5F4-68D6-45CE-8E57-5FEE2ACCF156@kreme.com> Message-ID: <5A8D4582-14A8-4888-B126-D57270803982@mac.com> On Aug 7, 2007, at 10:29 PM, LuKreme wrote: > On 7-Aug-2007, at 21:21, Michael J Wise wrote: >>> Personally, my dream machine at this point would be a Core 2 Duo >>> Mini with 802.11n and a BluRay drive. >> >> One out of three. > > It's a C2D, shoudln't it be able to do 802.11n? not really good enough for a media center oh well i guess i have to buy a new iMac :-) K > > -- > I'm no psychologist (although I play one when I'm picking up chicks > over by the asylum) > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk Sent from my iPhone! You know you want one! http://www.apple.com/iphone/ From mrhatken at mac.com Tue Aug 7 22:50:36 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Tue Aug 7 22:51:13 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> Message-ID: <1ECEBB6D-65D8-478D-BF42-69336EDC042C@mac.com> Hi Kevin (et al.), On 08/08/2007, at 1:15 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > On Aug 7, 2007, at 8:48 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >> Yep, Mac mini lives! > > well .. you have to admit, it was a less than stellar upgrade Yes, I agree. But I think we all know the Mac mini is currently Apple's low-price point offering, hence only yearly and minimal upgrade. It's just to get people in the stores and up-sell to an iMac (by the time you add on a screen and a keyboard and mouse ... you might as well get an iMac ... and, btw, it's a helluva lot faster as well). > i won't be buying one as a media center (as my friends/family > members who thought they would won't as well) May I ask why not? It should do HD fine (apparently). It doesn't have wireless N, but then a media centre would usually be close to wires anyway. It's not good for FPS games, but then that's not the function of a media centre. It's a bit much to ask (not you, but generally speaking) for Apple to put a Blueray drive in a Mac mini when they don't even offer them in the desktop machines. That said, there's Firewire and USB2 so plenty of room for external hard or optical drives. Even Elgato Eye-TV or similar if you want to record FTA. What I would really like is for Front Row X.0 to do the equivalent of AppleTV on the Mac mini. That way the Mac mini could grow into an AppleTV media centre. >> Who were those pessimists writing it off ... ;-) > > I'm writing it off. You're wrong then (currently ;-). Cheers, Ashley. From kcall at mac.com Tue Aug 7 22:54:48 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Tue Aug 7 22:54:42 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: <1ECEBB6D-65D8-478D-BF42-69336EDC042C@mac.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> <1ECEBB6D-65D8-478D-BF42-69336EDC042C@mac.com> Message-ID: <161DC168-11A1-4598-992F-2EA42B927C71@mac.com> On Aug 7, 2007, at 10:50 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote: >> I'm writing it off. > > You're wrong then (currently ;-). someone's wrong .. I'm not buying it I'm going to spend MORE money on an iMac as a media center :-) AAPL wins ! K From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Tue Aug 7 23:24:21 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Tue Aug 7 23:24:33 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: <161DC168-11A1-4598-992F-2EA42B927C71@mac.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> <1ECEBB6D-65D8-478D-BF42-69336EDC042C@mac.com> <161DC168-11A1-4598-992F-2EA42B927C71@mac.com> Message-ID: <8B7AB999-543B-4D9B-9596-E3E972F73B19@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> On 8 ao?t 07, at 14:54, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > On Aug 7, 2007, at 10:50 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >>> I'm writing it off. >> >> You're wrong then (currently ;-). > > someone's wrong .. > I'm not buying it > I'm going to spend MORE money on an iMac as a media center :-) > AAPL wins ! I just added the cost of a 20" monitor to the highest spec mini mac and it costs way more than a similar 20" iMac. But its overal spec is higher than the MacBook that was released last year in June. So it is not a ridiculous upgrade, but is only meant to fit a certain niche. Jean-Christophe From mrhatken at mac.com Wed Aug 8 01:12:50 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Wed Aug 8 01:14:17 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: <161DC168-11A1-4598-992F-2EA42B927C71@mac.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> <1ECEBB6D-65D8-478D-BF42-69336EDC042C@mac.com> <161DC168-11A1-4598-992F-2EA42B927C71@mac.com> Message-ID: <93510CB4-FECF-4A76-9C5C-FE23BEC116E9@mac.com> On 08/08/2007, at 1:54 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > On Aug 7, 2007, at 10:50 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >>> I'm writing it off. >> >> You're wrong then (currently ;-). > > someone's wrong .. > I'm not buying it > I'm going to spend MORE money on an iMac as a media center :-) > AAPL wins ! Yes, exactly. The Mac mini is the Mac that Apple probably hopes no-one buys. Still they need it there. Cheers, Ashley. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Wed Aug 8 01:58:41 2007 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz) Date: Wed Aug 8 01:58:49 2007 Subject: New iMac Glass? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 8, 2007, at 6:14 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > On a different note, I am not convinced these keyboards are better > (the flat keys with shorter action) but I am sure MacBook owner's > will swear by them ... Cheaper yes, better, not sure. Apparently everyone who tried is saying that it's much better than the current one. I'm getting a 24", btw. I'm a happy bunny. j. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070808/6116a357/attachment.html From mjwise at kapu.net Wed Aug 8 02:23:39 2007 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Wed Aug 8 02:23:54 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: <93510CB4-FECF-4A76-9C5C-FE23BEC116E9@mac.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> <1ECEBB6D-65D8-478D-BF42-69336EDC042C@mac.com> <161DC168-11A1-4598-992F-2EA42B927C71@mac.com> <93510CB4-FECF-4A76-9C5C-FE23BEC116E9@mac.com> Message-ID: <2E53ADED-2BBA-46A7-AA9E-CFCB1E2AAA2D@kapu.net> On Aug 7, 2007, at 10:12 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > The Mac mini is the Mac that Apple probably hopes no-one buys. It's perfect to drive my projector and hook up to my Elgato Hybrid. I just wish it knew what to do with a BluRay disk, is all. Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From mrhatken at mac.com Wed Aug 8 02:58:25 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Wed Aug 8 02:58:58 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: <2E53ADED-2BBA-46A7-AA9E-CFCB1E2AAA2D@kapu.net> References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> <1ECEBB6D-65D8-478D-BF42-69336EDC042C@mac.com> <161DC168-11A1-4598-992F-2EA42B927C71@mac.com> <93510CB4-FECF-4A76-9C5C-FE23BEC116E9@mac.com> <2E53ADED-2BBA-46A7-AA9E-CFCB1E2AAA2D@kapu.net> Message-ID: On 08/08/2007, at 5:23 PM, Michael J Wise wrote: > On Aug 7, 2007, at 10:12 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >> The Mac mini is the Mac that Apple probably hopes no-one buys. > > It's perfect to drive my projector and hook up to my Elgato Hybrid. Yes, I will be getting one too. > I just wish it knew what to do with a BluRay disk, is all. I am not sure what you mean? Why not a firewire BluRay player? That said, does BluRay require a HDMI output / display? Cheers, Ashley. From kcall at mac.com Wed Aug 8 08:34:29 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Wed Aug 8 08:34:40 2007 Subject: New iMac Glass? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51552424-E65B-4F31-8BB5-B7657E2E3D3B@mac.com> On Aug 8, 2007, at 1:58 AM, Jesus Diaz wrote: > > On Aug 8, 2007, at 6:14 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >> On a different note, I am not convinced these keyboards are better >> (the flat keys with shorter action) but I am sure MacBook owner's >> will swear by them ... Cheaper yes, better, not sure. > > Apparently everyone who tried is saying that it's much better than > the current one. > > I'm getting a 24", btw. I'm a happy bunny. 4 GIG of RAM ? > > j. > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk Sent from my iPhone! You know you want one! http://www.apple.com/iphone/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html http://www.xeniamara.com/Welcome.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070808/00effe50/attachment.html From mrhatken at mac.com Wed Aug 8 08:46:53 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Wed Aug 8 08:48:41 2007 Subject: New iMac Glass? In-Reply-To: <4BD6A559-0323-45DF-9116-254AF87F7EB7@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> References: <4BD6A559-0323-45DF-9116-254AF87F7EB7@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> Message-ID: On 08/08/2007, at 12:18 PM, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > On 8 ao?t 07, at 13:14, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >> PS On a different note, I am not convinced these keyboards are >> better (the flat keys with shorter action) but I am sure MacBook >> owner's will swear by them ... Cheaper yes, better, not sure. > > I work with an external Apple kb and use my MB's KB only when I > take it away and (besides for the heat) I find the easy of use > "dramatically improved" as Jobs would put it. I assume you mean the MB's KB is much better. > The Apple kb is just too hard in the end. I think I'm going to get > one of those wireless things. Yes, my questioning the new keyboards wasn't meant to be a vote in favour of Apple's old keyboards (I was speaking more generally). I have found Apple's (now) old keyboards (the all white ones) to be "hard" as well and they caused a quite a bit of strain on my fingers. I think there are a lot better "full-action" keyboards. Cheers, Ashley From mrhatken at mac.com Wed Aug 8 08:48:36 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Wed Aug 8 08:50:14 2007 Subject: New iMac Glass? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46167133-2231-445F-8CFB-EC2E6B18F440@mac.com> On 08/08/2007, at 12:14 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > Does anyone know if the glass (SiO2 as Steve mentioned ;-) on the > new iMac covers the whole screen or is just used around the > borders? I find it hard to tell from the photos. To answer my own question: I've since read in a couple of places that the glass does cover the whole screen. An interesting move, if you consider the possibility of using multi- touch (with the glass) in the future sometime (as well as a mouse etc.) Cheers, Ashley. From bentley at crenelle.com Wed Aug 8 09:38:58 2007 From: bentley at crenelle.com (Michael Brian Bentley) Date: Wed Aug 8 09:39:16 2007 Subject: New iMac Glass? In-Reply-To: <46167133-2231-445F-8CFB-EC2E6B18F440@mac.com> References: <46167133-2231-445F-8CFB-EC2E6B18F440@mac.com> Message-ID: Is the black frame there to hold the glass in place? Seems a bit different for apple to stick something with a different color right there. From mrhatken at mac.com Wed Aug 8 09:54:02 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Wed Aug 8 09:58:55 2007 Subject: New iMac Glass? In-Reply-To: References: <46167133-2231-445F-8CFB-EC2E6B18F440@mac.com> Message-ID: On 09/08/2007, at 12:38 AM, Michael Brian Bentley wrote: > Is the black frame there to hold the glass in place? Seems a bit > different for apple to stick something with a different color right > there. Yes, good question, it may be. I haven't seen many (any) LCD displays (even LCD TVs) that have glass covers. I wonder if there is still the "plastic" behind the glass? Cheers, Ashley. From kcall at mac.com Tue Aug 7 23:05:28 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Wed Aug 8 11:26:23 2007 Subject: iLife '08 / iPhone rocks ! Message-ID: We had a block-watch party tonight. With a few clicks, I set up a new Web Gallery in iLife 08/iPhoto, went to the party and took over 80- photos .. uploaded them in real-time to the site. I had to fight to keep my iPhone within my grasp - I succumbed and handed it off for well over an hour as it was passed around to folks eager to get their hands on it. I'm not sure I've seen such enthusiasm heretofore. K Sent from my iPhone! You know you want one! http://www.apple.com/iphone/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html http://www.xeniamara.com/Welcome.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070807/f3f5d4a8/attachment.html From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Wed Aug 8 12:11:19 2007 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Wed Aug 8 12:34:38 2007 Subject: New iMac keyboards? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 8, 2007, at 12:14 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > PS On a different note, I am not convinced these keyboards are > better (the flat keys with shorter action) but I am sure MacBook > owner's will swear by them ... Cheaper yes, better, not sure. I have a Macbook, and while I think the new keyboards are better than the older iBook keyboards (a bit), the keys do seem to stop working more quickly - they won't consistently work when touch-typing quickly. Which is annoying (fortunately mine is still under AppleCare, but I don't know if Apple can be convinced to replace the keyboard just for that..) Jim From larkost at softhome.net Wed Aug 8 13:37:40 2007 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Wed Aug 8 13:37:55 2007 Subject: iWork '08 and Applescript Message-ID: I have been playing a bit with the new iWork and have to say that I am really happy, especially with numbers. And the fact that Apple has great site-licensing for K-12 is something I am really happy about (even though it does not directly affect me). But as a system admin who likes to use AppleScript I am really annoyed with Apple: Numbers is not AppleScript-able at all! Nor is there anything in Automator for it! I know that this is a 1.0 product, but AppleScript is not that hard to work with! Export is still not scriptable in Keynote. What I am looking for is to create a droplet that non-skilled users can use to drop a PowerPoint document on and it spits out a PDF and flash file that they can take and put on our web-sites. And I can create a list of instructions, but that does not work well for people who have their PHD (they don't follow instructions: they give/create them!). A droplet would fix this problem. And there is a 'save as ' entry in the dictionary, but that does not seem to actually change anything. I also wish that you could work with the objects in Keynote some with AppleScript, but it is still limited to basically controlling a presentation as you give it. There is a little provision for modifying text, but not much. You can get at this by closing a presentation and then digging into the XML, but... The Pages team seems to have a better handle on things, but I have not really dug into their stuff at all. And unrelated to AppleScript: why can't Apple support LinkBack? It makes life so much easier when you are using multiple programs to work on a single presentation. I use it (with the plugin) to make nice charts in OmniGraffle, but often need to make minor tweaks. Just because it is not OpenDoc does not mean that Apple can ignore it (or, conversely, just because it is like OpenDoc...). http://linkback.nisus.com/ There is a guy out there who has hacked LinkBack support into every Keynote version so far... Why can't Apple just support this easy-to- use and useful protocol? http://commons.ucalgary.ca/~king/projects/keynoteplugins/linkback/ And yes... I am radaring all of this... And about 6 months ago I radared my AppleScript request, and even talked to our Apple SE to get this feedback straight to the iWork team. -- Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net From scott at cocoadoc.com Wed Aug 8 14:37:08 2007 From: scott at cocoadoc.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Wed Aug 8 14:37:15 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> <1ECEBB6D-65D8-478D-BF42-69336EDC042C@mac.com> <161DC168-11A1-4598-992F-2EA42B927C71@mac.com> <93510CB4-FECF-4A76-9C5C-FE23BEC116E9@mac.com> <2E53ADED-2BBA-46A7-AA9E-CFCB1E2AAA2D@kapu.net> Message-ID: On Aug 8, 2007, at 5:58 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: >> I just wish it knew what to do with a BluRay disk, is all. > > I am not sure what you mean? Why not a firewire BluRay player? > > That said, does BluRay require a HDMI output / display? just having a firewire blueray player wouldn't make it able to play blueray movies. I doubt we'll see Blueray players in consumer Macs until a format becomes dominant. and I don't see that happening (I think I've ranted here about the fact that the same movies are 2-3x the cost on blueray) From scott at cocoadoc.com Wed Aug 8 14:42:00 2007 From: scott at cocoadoc.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Wed Aug 8 14:42:07 2007 Subject: New iMac Glass? In-Reply-To: References: <46167133-2231-445F-8CFB-EC2E6B18F440@mac.com> Message-ID: On Aug 8, 2007, at 12:54 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > On 09/08/2007, at 12:38 AM, Michael Brian Bentley wrote: > >> Is the black frame there to hold the glass in place? Seems a bit >> different for apple to stick something with a different color right >> there. > > Yes, good question, it may be. > > I haven't seen many (any) LCD displays (even LCD TVs) that have > glass covers. I think this is pretty common on Sony LCD displays. I'm sure I've seen it on their machines at BestBuy. And it is definitely the standard on the Sony Bravia LCD tv line. From kcall at mac.com Wed Aug 8 16:30:14 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Wed Aug 8 16:30:04 2007 Subject: iMovie 7 and discrete audio and video sources when capturing to disk Message-ID: <516BAF46-8833-451E-90D0-ADA884A20D08@mac.com> Most everyone knows that QTPro 7.2 broke the ability to bring audio in from numerous firewire and USB interfaces, including the MOTU 896HD. I had been using QTPro 7.1 up to that point (and QTPro instead of iMovie) when capturing video to disk when I needed high quality audio (which is always). I posted a bug to RADAR a long while back regarding iMovie 6 not allowing the user to define discrete audio and video sources when capturing directly to disk. Because of that, I've been using QTPro, saving the resultant file, then importing it into iMovie 6. Not optimal workflow, but it was a workaround. Yesterday, I picked up iLife 08 and iWork 08. My hope was that Apple put support in iMovie 7 for discrete audio and video sources when capturing directly to disk. I tested it with my MBPro using iSight at first. Great ! video via iSight, audio via my MOTU ! woo hoo ! But when I hooked up my Canon camcorder, I discovered that while I had set the audio source to the MOTU, iMovie disregarded the setting and used the Canon's onboard mic. OUCH! I first thought I had mucked up the settings, but after a few tries, I still could not get my MOTU to be the audio source WHILE the Canon was the video source. Can someone with a similar setup run a test? see if you can take a camcorder and an audio interface (preferably firewire) and capture to disk in iMovie 7? I've already RADAR'd the bug, but I'd like feedback from others. Thanks Kevin Sent from my iPhone! You know you want one! Visual Voicemail rocks! http://www.apple.com/iphone/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html http://www.xeniamara.com/Welcome.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070808/8a226025/attachment.html From kcall at mac.com Wed Aug 8 16:36:46 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Wed Aug 8 16:36:37 2007 Subject: GarageBand audio out settings Message-ID: <3D7EB671-6A88-4162-8AE5-656C6D416CF9@mac.com> I use GarageBand when teaching more often than I use Logic Pro .. it's fast, easy to set up etc. I mix to three different speaker systems, generally: Studio monitors PA speakers Headphones The MOTU firewire interface console panel allows me to set the output of any audio going through it to my various speaker configurations. I can choose from the popup my monitors, my PA or headphones ... makes for quick and easy comparisons and mixing tweaks GarageBand doesn't honor the MOTU panel settings. iTunes, Safari and other apps, however, do. In contrast, Logic Pro gives you channel access to all channels available on the MOTU, so you basically manage that from within the Logic Pro mixer. As Garageband doesn't give you that fine-grained ability, I'm wonder what people do with similar setups (I've RADAR'd a bug on this for both GB 3 and the new GB 4). Kevin Sent from my iPhone! You know you want one! Visual Voicemail rocks! http://www.apple.com/iphone/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html http://www.xeniamara.com/Welcome.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070808/3e3269b8/attachment.html From mrhatken at mac.com Wed Aug 8 16:57:25 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Wed Aug 8 16:58:01 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> <1ECEBB6D-65D8-478D-BF42-69336EDC042C@mac.com> <161DC168-11A1-4598-992F-2EA42B927C71@mac.com> <93510CB4-FECF-4A76-9C5C-FE23BEC116E9@mac.com> <2E53ADED-2BBA-46A7-AA9E-CFCB1E2AAA2D@kapu.net> Message-ID: On 09/08/2007, at 5:37 AM, Scott Anguish wrote: > On Aug 8, 2007, at 5:58 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >>> I just wish it knew what to do with a BluRay disk, is all. >> >> I am not sure what you mean? Why not a firewire BluRay player? >> >> That said, does BluRay require a HDMI output / display? > > > just having a firewire blueray player wouldn't make it able to play > blueray movies. Right, sorry, wasn't thinking straight. Of course, DVD player (or similar open source?) needs to be able to play the format. Cheers, Ashley. From kremels at kreme.com Wed Aug 8 18:13:04 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Wed Aug 8 18:13:27 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> <1ECEBB6D-65D8-478D-BF42-69336EDC042C@mac.com> <161DC168-11A1-4598-992F-2EA42B927C71@mac.com> <93510CB4-FECF-4A76-9C5C-FE23BEC116E9@mac.com> <2E53ADED-2BBA-46A7-AA9E-CFCB1E2AAA2D@kapu.net> Message-ID: <9304AB7E-BA69-45A2-A46E-2714AE018DB9@kreme.com> On 8-Aug-2007, at 17:57, Ashley Aitken wrote: > Of course, DVD player (or similar open source?) needs to be able to > play the [BlueRay] format. Surely you jest. If there is ever an open source player for BlueRay it will be proof positive that the content-nazi's have failed once again to come up with a secure model. -- Love is like oxygen/You get too much/you get too high/Not enough and you're gonna die From mailist at ericgorr.net Wed Aug 8 17:00:11 2007 From: mailist at ericgorr.net (Eric Gorr) Date: Wed Aug 8 18:50:57 2007 Subject: Wireless Communication with Quad-Core Mac Pro Message-ID: <8C0470F0-FDAE-4A51-AB02-BFE8CA2423DA@ericgorr.net> I purchased a Mac Pro a few months ago and made the silly error of not taking the Airport and Bluetooth option. I am now told by the Apple Store that they cannot sell me the hardware I need and will need to find a third-party option. I am wondering what options people might recommend. I assume they will eventually release for sale the special AirPort and Bluetooth hardware for my machine, but no one knows when that might be. I wish the AirPort Extreme Card they do sell did not say: This AirPort Extreme Card is not compatible with the Mac Pro Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070808/d6864ea3/attachment.html From mrhatken at mac.com Wed Aug 8 18:59:52 2007 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Wed Aug 8 19:00:51 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: <9304AB7E-BA69-45A2-A46E-2714AE018DB9@kreme.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> <1ECEBB6D-65D8-478D-BF42-69336EDC042C@mac.com> <161DC168-11A1-4598-992F-2EA42B927C71@mac.com> <93510CB4-FECF-4A76-9C5C-FE23BEC116E9@mac.com> <2E53ADED-2BBA-46A7-AA9E-CFCB1E2AAA2D@kapu.net> <9304AB7E-BA69-45A2-A46E-2714AE018DB9@kreme.com> Message-ID: <37427E02-E7A9-48A2-A174-A6EAD834DE78@mac.com> On 09/08/2007, at 9:13 AM, LuKreme wrote: > On 8-Aug-2007, at 17:57, Ashley Aitken wrote: >> Of course, DVD player (or similar open source?) needs to be able >> to play the [BlueRay] format. > > Surely you jest. If there is ever an open source player for > BlueRay it will be proof positive that the content-nazi's have > failed once again to come up with a secure model. Yes, I should probably stop now before I make it three-out-of-three, but hasn't BluRay and/or HD-DVD DRM been cracked already? Cheers, Ashley. From charles.dyer at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 19:18:14 2007 From: charles.dyer at gmail.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Wed Aug 8 19:18:21 2007 Subject: Wireless Communication with Quad-Core Mac Pro In-Reply-To: <8C0470F0-FDAE-4A51-AB02-BFE8CA2423DA@ericgorr.net> References: <8C0470F0-FDAE-4A51-AB02-BFE8CA2423DA@ericgorr.net> Message-ID: On 08 Aug 2007, at 20:00:11, Eric Gorr wrote: > I purchased a Mac Pro a few months ago and made the silly error of > not taking the Airport and Bluetooth option. I am now told by the > Apple Store that they cannot sell me the hardware I need and will > need to find a third-party option. I am wondering what options > people might recommend. > > I assume they will eventually release for sale the special AirPort > and Bluetooth hardware for my machine, I doubt this. The BTO wireless unit comes in three flovours: 1 802.11 only 2 Bluetooth only 3 802.11 and Bluetooth It is not a PCI card, it's on the motherboard somewhere, possibly as a special slot daughtercard. IIRC the only place you can get one is at an Apple Store, and they have to install it. If the Apple Store can't get it for you, you're out of luck. > but no one knows when that might be. I wish the AirPort Extreme > Card they do sell did not say: > > This AirPort Extreme Card is not compatible with the Mac Pro > > Thank you. > If you just want 802.11, you can get this: . You can get a USB 802.11 card, and USB Bluetooth. From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Aug 8 19:23:58 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Wed Aug 8 19:23:59 2007 Subject: Wireless Communication with Quad-Core Mac Pro In-Reply-To: <8C0470F0-FDAE-4A51-AB02-BFE8CA2423DA@ericgorr.net> References: <8C0470F0-FDAE-4A51-AB02-BFE8CA2423DA@ericgorr.net> Message-ID: <46BA7ABE.2050804@paper-ape.com> they whom i call Eric Gorr wrote: > I purchased a Mac Pro a few months ago and made the silly error of not > taking the Airport and Bluetooth option. I am now told by the Apple > Store that they cannot sell me the hardware I need and will need to find > a third-party option. I am wondering what options people might recommend. if the price doesn't bother you, and bluetooth isn't essential, why not just get an Airport Extreme Base Station? for Bluetooth, USB adapters are plentiful; not sure if they have all the features that built-in gives you From kremels at kreme.com Wed Aug 8 21:48:32 2007 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Wed Aug 8 21:48:48 2007 Subject: Tuesday's "Mac" announcement? In-Reply-To: <37427E02-E7A9-48A2-A174-A6EAD834DE78@mac.com> References: <5dc6fd9e0708032125l2a08fa64jdf02f6526a26be75@mail.gmail.com> <101E7E4C-DF17-48CB-B0D4-3E734B1B4876@mac.com> <1ECEBB6D-65D8-478D-BF42-69336EDC042C@mac.com> <161DC168-11A1-4598-992F-2EA42B927C71@mac.com> <93510CB4-FECF-4A76-9C5C-FE23BEC116E9@mac.com> <2E53ADED-2BBA-46A7-AA9E-CFCB1E2AAA2D@kapu.net> <9304AB7E-BA69-45A2-A46E-2714AE018DB9@kreme.com> <37427E02-E7A9-48A2-A174-A6EAD834DE78@mac.com> Message-ID: On 8-Aug-2007, at 19:59, Ashley Aitken wrote: > On 09/08/2007, at 9:13 AM, LuKreme wrote: >> On 8-Aug-2007, at 17:57, Ashley Aitken wrote: >>> Of course, DVD player (or similar open source?) needs to be able >>> to play the [BlueRay] format. >> >> Surely you jest. If there is ever an open source player for >> BlueRay it will be proof positive that the content-nazi's have >> failed once again to come up with a secure model. > > Yes, I should probably stop now before I make it three-out-of- > three, but hasn't BluRay and/or HD-DVD DRM been cracked already? As I understand it, sorta kinda. -- In other news, Gandalf died. -- Secret Diary of Boromir From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Wed Aug 8 22:31:04 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Wed Aug 8 22:31:10 2007 Subject: iMac pricing over the world Message-ID: <7288B9C6-FFD6-4E3B-9E4C-9BE928651C14@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> I checked the US price of the high-end iMac and used the exchange rate available today to see what the price tag "should" be in other areas: US: $2299 UK: ?1128 IR: ?1666 JP: ?275057 Then I checked the UK/Ireland/Japan and US prices without VAT for the high end iMac and found: US: $2299 UK: ?1241 (+9%) IR: ?1833 (+10%) ? values vary depending on the country but the FR and DE shop drove me back to my JP shop... JP: ?285524 (+3.6%) I am not sure what to conclude from that. In Japan, ?300,000 for such a machine is dirt cheap. Kind of. I suppose Apple is targetting this huge and very trend following consumer market, knowing that SONY is at home here. Do we have figures for the user bases in the respective markets ? Jean-Christophe Helary From pelorus at mac.com Wed Aug 8 23:46:16 2007 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Wed Aug 8 23:46:21 2007 Subject: Wireless Communication with Quad-Core Mac Pro In-Reply-To: <8C0470F0-FDAE-4A51-AB02-BFE8CA2423DA@ericgorr.net> References: <8C0470F0-FDAE-4A51-AB02-BFE8CA2423DA@ericgorr.net> Message-ID: On 9 Aug 2007, at 01:00, Eric Gorr wrote: > I purchased a Mac Pro a few months ago and made the silly error of > not taking the Airport and Bluetooth option. I am now told by the > Apple Store that they cannot sell me the hardware I need and will > need to find a third-party option. I am wondering what options > people might recommend. Go speak to your local Apple Service Provider. The parts you need are available, just a little more expensive then BTO. M From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Thu Aug 9 06:56:53 2007 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz_Blanco?=) Date: Thu Aug 9 06:57:13 2007 Subject: iMac pricing over the world In-Reply-To: <7288B9C6-FFD6-4E3B-9E4C-9BE928651C14@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> References: <7288B9C6-FFD6-4E3B-9E4C-9BE928651C14@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> Message-ID: <5DCF4264-1CD9-4F42-85AD-B067A1BB442D@apinet.es> Like always, Europe sucking it. j. On 09/08/2007, at 7:31, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > I checked the US price of the high-end iMac and used the exchange > rate available today to see what the price tag "should" be in other > areas: > > US: $2299 > UK: ?1128 > IR: ?1666 > JP: ?275057 > > > Then I checked the UK/Ireland/Japan and US prices without VAT for > the high end iMac and found: > > US: $2299 > UK: ?1241 (+9%) > IR: ?1833 (+10%) > ? values vary depending on the country but the FR and DE shop drove > me back to my JP shop... > JP: ?285524 (+3.6%) > > I am not sure what to conclude from that. In Japan, ?300,000 for > such a machine is dirt cheap. Kind of. I suppose Apple is > targetting this huge and very trend following consumer market, > knowing that SONY is at home here. Do we have figures for the user > bases in the respective markets ? > > Jean-Christophe Helary > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From dev at macfoh.com Thu Aug 9 07:04:02 2007 From: dev at macfoh.com (Shaun Wexler) Date: Thu Aug 9 07:04:25 2007 Subject: Wireless Communication with Quad-Core Mac Pro In-Reply-To: <8C0470F0-FDAE-4A51-AB02-BFE8CA2423DA@ericgorr.net> References: <8C0470F0-FDAE-4A51-AB02-BFE8CA2423DA@ericgorr.net> Message-ID: <65F923CE-999D-4B1F-AA5F-69248961B5FD@macfoh.com> On Aug 8, 2007, at 5:00 PM, Eric Gorr wrote: > I purchased a Mac Pro a few months ago and made the silly error of > not taking the Airport and Bluetooth option. I am now told by the > Apple Store that they cannot sell me the hardware I need and will > need to find a third-party option. I am wondering what options > people might recommend. > > I assume they will eventually release for sale the special AirPort > and Bluetooth hardware for my machine, but no one knows when that > might be. I wish the AirPort Extreme Card they do sell did not say: > > This AirPort Extreme Card is not compatible with the Mac Pro > > Thank you. The AirPort card is different than the original or the former Extreme model, but Bluetooth is compatible; I purchased an Apple Bluetooth module for my Dual G4, and migrated it to a Mac Pro with zero hassle. You can order an 802.11n type Airport card from [any?] authorized Apple dealer or repair center, and it's simple to install. Apple Store's page for the Airport Extreme card (G4) states: "This AirPort Extreme Card is not compatible with the Mac Pro or the Power Mac G5 Dual and Power Mac G5 Quad computers introduced in October 2005. To add an AirPort Extreme card to one of these systems, please contact an Apple Retail Store or other Authorized Apple Service Provider." -- Shaun Wexler MacFOH http://www.macfoh.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2411 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070809/bf371ec4/smime.bin From fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp Thu Aug 9 07:16:22 2007 From: fusion at mx6.tiki.ne.jp (Jean-Christophe Helary) Date: Thu Aug 9 07:16:32 2007 Subject: iMac pricing over the world In-Reply-To: <5DCF4264-1CD9-4F42-85AD-B067A1BB442D@apinet.es> References: <7288B9C6-FFD6-4E3B-9E4C-9BE928651C14@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <5DCF4264-1CD9-4F42-85AD-B067A1BB442D@apinet.es> Message-ID: <03B323BE-3BEC-4A80-8767-3805E71D4CE0@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> On 9 ao?t 07, at 22:56, Jes?s D?az Blanco wrote: > Like always, Europe sucking it. Well, think that Apple may consider that the Euro is artificially high to the dollar and set the Euro prices so that they correspond to a more realistic exchange rate. Today's rate was 1.38 Dollars to the Euro and the price in Irland suggests a 1.25 Dollars to the Euro. I just checked the FR price: ?2219 without VAT... Same in DE, BE, FI, IT, NL, ?2159 in ES, so we obviously have something else here... JC > j. > > On 09/08/2007, at 7:31, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > >> I checked the US price of the high-end iMac and used the exchange >> rate available today to see what the price tag "should" be in >> other areas: >> >> US: $2299 >> UK: ?1128 >> IR: ?1666 >> JP: ?275057 >> >> >> Then I checked the UK/Ireland/Japan and US prices without VAT for >> the high end iMac and found: >> >> US: $2299 >> UK: ?1241 (+9%) >> IR: ?1833 (+10%) >> ? values vary depending on the country but the FR and DE shop >> drove me back to my JP shop... >> JP: ?285524 (+3.6%) >> >> I am not sure what to conclude from that. In Japan, ?300,000 for >> such a machine is dirt cheap. Kind of. I suppose Apple is >> targetting this huge and very trend following consumer market, >> knowing that SONY is at home here. Do we have figures for the user >> bases in the respective markets ? From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Thu Aug 9 09:57:16 2007 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (R.L. Grigg) Date: Thu Aug 9 09:57:20 2007 Subject: Airport extreme: no external antenna? Message-ID: <1FC27F2B-94CF-4215-BF3B-68033DD07F38@autonomy.caltech.edu> Can someone who owns a Airport extreme base station confirm for me that you CAN"T hook up an external antenna to it? Ive been told that theres no external antenna port on it but I find that hard to believe. If its true then we'll stick with the older UFO Airport thingys we have. Russ From shawnce at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 10:50:43 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Aug 9 10:50:46 2007 Subject: Airport extreme: no external antenna? In-Reply-To: <1FC27F2B-94CF-4215-BF3B-68033DD07F38@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <1FC27F2B-94CF-4215-BF3B-68033DD07F38@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: On 8/9/07, R.L. Grigg wrote: > Can someone who owns a Airport extreme base station confirm for me > that you CAN"T hook up an external antenna to it? Ive been told that > theres no external antenna port on it but I find that hard to > believe. If its true then we'll stick with the older UFO Airport > thingys we have. (if it doesn't state it has it, it doesn't have it) -Shawn -Shawn From charles.dyer at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 11:57:11 2007 From: charles.dyer at gmail.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Aug 9 11:57:27 2007 Subject: Airport extreme: no external antenna? In-Reply-To: <1FC27F2B-94CF-4215-BF3B-68033DD07F38@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <1FC27F2B-94CF-4215-BF3B-68033DD07F38@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <75D38E74-C64E-4054-B1DA-31A28CEE70E6@gmail.com> On 09 Aug 2007, at 12:57:16, R.L. Grigg wrote: > Can someone who owns a Airport extreme base station confirm for me > that you CAN"T hook up an external antenna to it? Nope. > Ive been told that theres no external antenna port That's right. There isn't. > on it but I find that hard to believe. The antennas are built into the sides. > If its true then we'll stick with the older UFO Airport thingys we > have. Ah... why do you want an external antenna? If you want range, you should know that the Airport Extreme, without an external antenna, has a better range than the old AirPort Base Station. > Russ > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From alsina at mac.com Thu Aug 9 11:59:02 2007 From: alsina at mac.com (Cesar Alsina) Date: Thu Aug 9 11:59:17 2007 Subject: Airport extreme: no external antenna? In-Reply-To: <1FC27F2B-94CF-4215-BF3B-68033DD07F38@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <1FC27F2B-94CF-4215-BF3B-68033DD07F38@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <32854F45-E10C-4E9C-940D-C4B3AAA1563B@mac.com> On Aug 9, 2007, at 12:57 PM, R.L. Grigg wrote: > Can someone who owns a Airport extreme base station confirm for me > that you CAN"T hook up an external antenna to it? Ive been told > that theres no external antenna port on it but I find that hard to > believe. If its true then we'll stick with the older UFO Airport > thingys we have. I bought an Airport Extreme base a few days ago... it's here, it does not have an antenna port. .... Cesar Alsina | GraphicBiz Corp. | We cover the whole world! Graphic Design & Publishing Web Architecture & Information Design http://www.graphicbiz.biz : alsina@graphicbiz.biz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070809/059441b1/attachment.html From joar at joar.com Thu Aug 9 12:40:41 2007 From: joar at joar.com (Joar Wingfors) Date: Thu Aug 9 12:40:44 2007 Subject: AirPort Extreme: Now Gigabit on all ports Message-ID: <21F33524-8364-4020-8EF0-D8CB7A960090@joar.com> The AirPort Extreme base station used to have only 100 Mbps ports, right? Was this change introduced now? j o a r From shawnce at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 13:29:43 2007 From: shawnce at gmail.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Aug 9 13:29:46 2007 Subject: AirPort Extreme: Now Gigabit on all ports In-Reply-To: <21F33524-8364-4020-8EF0-D8CB7A960090@joar.com> References: <21F33524-8364-4020-8EF0-D8CB7A960090@joar.com> Message-ID: On 8/9/07, Joar Wingfors wrote: > > The AirPort Extreme base station used to have only 100 Mbps ports, > right? Was this change introduced now? Yeah on Tuesday they updated it along with the iMac and Mac mini. -Shawn From wiswp at niue.nu Thu Aug 9 13:44:07 2007 From: wiswp at niue.nu (Bill Wisse) Date: Thu Aug 9 14:17:54 2007 Subject: Airport extreme: no external antenna? In-Reply-To: <75D38E74-C64E-4054-B1DA-31A28CEE70E6@gmail.com> References: <1FC27F2B-94CF-4215-BF3B-68033DD07F38@autonomy.caltech.edu> <75D38E74-C64E-4054-B1DA-31A28CEE70E6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2CB28C42-3549-4393-91CE-64F87E9B65DC@niue.nu> On 09/08/2007, at 7:57 AM, Charles Dyer wrote: > Ah... why do you want an external antenna? If you want range, you > should know that the Airport Extreme, without an external antenna, > has a better range than the old AirPort Base Station. I'm getting my wireless connection to the ISP by means of an external antenna connection. PC's have a possibility to connect the antenna straight into the card. I have now my antenna connected to an AP and from there onto my router and then the iMac. Greetings from /bill at 169 west , 19 south. Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Thu Aug 9 14:32:04 2007 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (R.L. Grigg) Date: Thu Aug 9 14:32:09 2007 Subject: Airport extreme: no external antenna? In-Reply-To: <75D38E74-C64E-4054-B1DA-31A28CEE70E6@gmail.com> References: <1FC27F2B-94CF-4215-BF3B-68033DD07F38@autonomy.caltech.edu> <75D38E74-C64E-4054-B1DA-31A28CEE70E6@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 9, 2007, at 11:57 AM, Charles Dyer wrote: > On 09 Aug 2007, at 12:57:16, R.L. Grigg wrote: > >> Can someone who owns a Airport extreme base station confirm for me >> that you CAN"T hook up an external antenna to it? > > Nope. > >> Ive been told that theres no external antenna port > > That's right. There isn't. > >> on it but I find that hard to believe. > > The antennas are built into the sides. > >> If its true then we'll stick with the older UFO Airport thingys we >> have. > > Ah... why do you want an external antenna? If you want range, you > should know that the Airport Extreme, without an external antenna, > has a better range than the old AirPort Base Station. We need the external antenna jack to hook a linear rf amp and waveguide to it for a special purpose contract so theres no way a unidirectional AE unit can do what we need. I guess Apple just killed off the external antenna market niche too. Russ From steve at paper-ape.com Fri Aug 10 08:25:30 2007 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Fri Aug 10 08:25:38 2007 Subject: Airport extreme: no external antenna? In-Reply-To: References: <1FC27F2B-94CF-4215-BF3B-68033DD07F38@autonomy.caltech.edu> <75D38E74-C64E-4054-B1DA-31A28CEE70E6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46BC836A.4060608@paper-ape.com> they whom i call R.L. Grigg wrote: > We need the external antenna jack to hook a linear rf amp and waveguide > to it for a special purpose contract so theres no way a unidirectional > AE unit can do what we need. I guess Apple just killed off the external > antenna market niche too. your needs seem pretty specialized -- isn't there another router that will work? there are cheaper routers with antenna jacks plu more features than Apple's router ... overall, i'd expect a trend away from external antenna connectors on consumer routers, both because of 802.11n's requirement of multiple antennas (and hence multiple connectors), and because 802.11n's greater range is more likely to satisfy users without an external antenna but considering Apple's market share and its place in the wireless router market, i doubt Apple itself could harm the antenna niche (that said, i'm happy i have a garage-sale Dr. Bott directional antenna on my 802.11g Apple router) From jftrejos at mac.com Fri Aug 10 12:01:57 2007 From: jftrejos at mac.com (jftrejos@mac.com) Date: Fri Aug 10 12:03:33 2007 Subject: iDisk Message-ID: <5E39E2CE-85F9-442A-A4BF-2EB10C2E9320@mac.com> Is there a way to reduce your iDisk storage back to standard when it has been enlarged? I remember there was a way but now I can't find it. thanks jt From kcall at mac.com Fri Aug 10 12:25:16 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Aug 10 12:25:20 2007 Subject: new wireless keyboard Message-ID: Is Apple's new wireless keyboard shipping? in stores? anybody seen one yet? My current (clunky) Apple wireless is becoming increasingly frustrating. Would love to hear what people think of the new keyboards. Sent from my iPhone! Visual Voicemail rocks! http://www.apple.com/iphone/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html http://www.xeniamara.com/Welcome.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070810/e56dc53e/attachment.html From kcall at mac.com Fri Aug 10 14:08:14 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Aug 10 14:08:19 2007 Subject: iWeb and Personal Domains Message-ID: <2BC2B1B6-7D21-405A-9586-7C6F3DF800CD@mac.com> Does anybody know how this really works? If you currently have your domain hosted by a service and you'd like your iWeb sites to appear under your personal domain, can you still have both HOSTS working simultaneously? ie: your personal domain and any files you have hosted there remain untouched and are still accessible as normal, your iWeb sites, published to DOT MAC, simply appear to be under your personal domain? K Sent from my iPhone! You know you want one! Visual Voicemail rocks! http://www.apple.com/iphone/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/ http://www.kevincallahan.org/software/accessorizer.html http://www.xeniamara.com/Welcome.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20070810/7f249f61/attachment.html From andrew.brown at c18.net Fri Aug 10 21:15:14 2007 From: andrew.brown at c18.net (Andrew Brown) Date: Fri Aug 10 21:15:20 2007 Subject: new wireless keyboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10 Aug 2007, at 21:25, Kevin Callahan wrote: > Is Apple's new wireless keyboard shipping? in stores? anybody seen > one yet? > My current (clunky) Apple wireless is becoming increasingly > frustrating. Would love to hear what people think of the new > keyboards. Judging from the photos, not enough keys. If you want a new keyboard with all the keys, you have to have wires. Why? AB From kcall at mac.com Fri Aug 10 21:53:57 2007 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Fri Aug 10 21:53:59 2007 Subject: new wireless keyboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3945E5FC-8DA2-47DD-9790-9C1CB68E8137@mac.com> On Aug 10, 2007, at 9:15 PM, Andrew Brown wrote: > On 10 Aug 2007, at 21:25, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> Is Apple's new wireless keyboard shipping? in stores? anybody seen >> one yet? >> My current (clunky) Apple wireless is becoming increasingly >> frustrating. Would love to hear what people think of the new >> keyboards. > > Judging from the photos, not enough keys. If you want a new > keyboard with all the keys, you have to have wires. Why? maybe the wireless (tiny) keyboard is meant to go in your briefcase for your iPhone? > > AB > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >