SafariStand

[Ashley Aitken]

Hi Scott (et al.),

On 12/04/2007, at 12:47 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote:

> On Apr 11, 2007, at 6:21 PM, Ashley Aitken wrote:
>
>> I doubt this is what Apple had in mind for InputMangers, but since  
>> they haven't (AFAIK) provided a standard way of extending  
>> applications
>
> Actually, they have. NSBundle/CFBundle can load code at runtime  
> specifically for this purpose.

Yes, I know about bundles (and I have used them).

> It's up to the developer of the host application to decide if they  
> want to create a plug-in protocol and shoulder all of the  
> associated debugging and support costs.

Yes, I understand that too.

The reality is though, as I think we have seen, developers who want  
to customise an application are going to do whatever it takes (e.g.  
Mach-Inject) and whether the developer wants to allow it or not.

>> is this an ok substitute?
>
> I don't think it is. The issue with InputManager hacks is that the  
> developer of the running application is blamed for the crash, even  
> if they had nothing to do with it.

I think, specifically, the problem with InputManagers is that they  
are/can be system-wide, and (AFAIK) they were originally intended to  
relate to input, so could be exploit heaven (e.g. key-stroke logging).

Personally, from a user-perspective, I am all for application- 
specific extensions, to give me things in an app that the developer  
doesn't think I should have or hasn't got around to implementing yet.

I accept the responsibility for crashes on a per-application basis -  
if I installed the extension then I know where to look if the  
application crashes.

I have similar feelings about system-wide extensions, to give me  
things on the Mac that Apple doesn't think I should have, or hasn't  
got around to providing, although I am more careful with these.


> If people who know what they're doing want to do unsupported  
> things, so be it. Most users aren't in this category, though.

Ok, so why not provide a warning dialog when installing the  
InputManager, or when an application with an InputManager starts up  
(checkbox for hide this warning etc), rather than remove  
InputManagers altogether.

One could say the same thing (roughly) for all applications - why let  
people download applications, they don't know what the application  
will do ... so Apple puts dialogs when downloading and on first start- 
up.

I can see things from the host application developer's perspective  
and Apple's too.  But I think they should just learn to live with  
this (and minimise problems where possible).

Looking at it from a "rights" point of view, I believe anyone should  
be able to do anything they want with an application they purchase,  
and even the OS.

Perhaps developers and Apple can deny support from anyone who has  
such extensions installed, or include a system setting to turn on/off  
all extensions (e.g. InputManagers) temporarily.

I know some will look back at the classic MacOS days and say what a  
nightmare system extensions were, but they were also a part of the  
Mac experience and enabled a great deal of innovation on the Mac.

And these days, we have a modern OS, so a single app crashing  
shouldn't bring down the system.

Cheers,
Ashley.

--
Ashley Aitken
Perth, Western Australia
mrhatken at mac dot com
Skype Name: MrHatken (GMT + 8 Hours!)