From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Fri Oct 1 04:42:31 2004 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:33 2005 Subject: Blackberry Message-ID: So, anyone has any experience synching the new RIM phones with Mac OS X? I am going to get one and since it has Bluetooth, I was wondering. j. From markm at tyrell.com Fri Oct 1 05:57:30 2004 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:33 2005 Subject: Blackberry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 1:42 PM +0200 10/1/04, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: >So, anyone has any experience synching the new RIM phones with Mac OS X? > >I am going to get one and since it has Bluetooth, I was wondering. I haven't tried this software yet, but it has an impressive feature list: http://www.pocketmac.net/products/pmblackberry/index.html Previous to this software, it was not possible to sync the Blackberry to the Mac. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From justmike at openprojects.rarcoa.com Fri Oct 1 06:38:31 2004 From: justmike at openprojects.rarcoa.com (Michael Bytnar) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: HD TV for Mac (Re: HD TV for PC) In-Reply-To: <049B100ED523D411BA250008C7F9A46819075168@mail1.americanhotel.com> References: <049B100ED523D411BA250008C7F9A46819075168@mail1.americanhotel.com> Message-ID: <20041001133831.GA12881@openprojects.rarcoa.com> HDTV/ATSC via Firewire only provides DVHS at this time. Talk about 2 steps back. They still don't realize consumers that have used TiVo's features will never go back to a VHS-like system where you have to tune the TV yourself, set the time to record, and don't touch the TV tuner while the DVHS recording is taking place. DVHS sucks, if you've come to value TiVo's features: instantaneous time-shifting & catchup, set-it-and-forget-it recording simplicity for any program, record & watch a 2nd station while recording. Actually, the current form of DVHS is one step backward from today's VHS recorders which have integrated tuners, and multiple program recording. When will a normal HD-TiVo arrive? We'll see, but until then I refuse to rely on the one bound & gagged by a DirecTV contract. That's why the HDTV PCI cards on the Mac provide the most control, given someone writes the software for it. :) And Elgato's EyeTv 500 is nice, but again lacks a MPEG decoder which greatly increases the CPU power required. Just try viewing 1080i programs on a Dual 1GHz G4 in VideoLan, it can't handle it (yet). --Mike On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 10:02:21AM -0500, Dennis Cox wrote: > > > > ---------- > > From: Jesus Diaz Blanco > > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 9:42 AM > > To: Dave Schroeder > > Cc: Mac OS X Bitch; Kevin Callahan > > Subject: Re: HD TV for Mac (Re: HD TV for PC) > > > > So cool. But what application? > > > > j. > > > > On 30/09/2004, at 16:22, Dave Schroeder wrote: > > > > > Also don't forget that, in the US (if you have a cable operator that > > > provides HDTV services), you can do HDTV to your Mac without buying > > > anything but a FireWire cable: > > > > > > http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20040426151111599 > > > > > > The FCC *requires* that US cable operators with HDTV service provide > > > customers with an HDTV set top box with a functional FireWire port as > > > of April 1, 2004. It's mandatory on all HDTV set top boxes as of July > > > 1, 2005.[1] > > > > > > - Dave > > > > > > [1] http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-03-225A1.pdf > > > > > > On Sep 30, 2004, at 8:37 AM, Michael Bytnar wrote: > > > > > >> Don't forget you can do HDTV on your Mac. > > >> It's not quite up to TiVo's level, but this SW can capture and > > >> playback ATSC HDTV with a $150 PCI HDTV Tuner card (FusionHDTV 3 > > >> Gold). > > >> http://www.defyne.org/dvb/ > > >> > > >> And there's the EyeTV 500, although it is more expensive ($350), > > >> still requires software MPEG decoding, but the software > > >> interface is quite nice! > > >> > > >> --Mike > > >> > > >> On Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 11:06:50PM -0700, kevin callahan wrote: > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> High-definition TV from your PC for $199 > > >>> ATI's HDTV Wonder includes digital video recording > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From robert.palmer at ipix.com Fri Oct 1 06:58:49 2004 From: robert.palmer at ipix.com (Robert G Palmer Jr) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: HD TV for Mac (Re: HD TV for PC) In-Reply-To: <20041001133831.GA12881@openprojects.rarcoa.com> References: <049B100ED523D411BA250008C7F9A46819075168@mail1.americanhotel.com> <20041001133831.GA12881@openprojects.rarcoa.com> Message-ID: <04DFC19C-13B2-11D9-BA61-000A95B770F2@ipix.com> I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Given only the applications discussed here so far, you are correct, it's DVHS only. However, if someone took the initiative to build a software solution similar to Elgato's I think you could have a very elegant ReplayTV (that's what I own ;) like device. From what I've read (I'm definitely no expert), the Firewire interface is supposed to allow control of the Tuner as well as streaming the video. If this is actually the case, then the software could change channels and start recording whenever it wanted to. The only piece missing is the cool ReplayTV like software application. On Oct 1, 2004, at 9:38 AM, Michael Bytnar wrote: > HDTV/ATSC via Firewire only provides DVHS at this time. > Talk about 2 steps back. They still don't realize consumers > that have used TiVo's features will never go back to a > VHS-like system where you have to tune the TV yourself, > set the time to record, and don't touch the TV tuner while the DVHS > recording is taking place. > > DVHS sucks, if you've come to value TiVo's features: > instantaneous time-shifting & catchup, > set-it-and-forget-it recording simplicity for any program, > record & watch a 2nd station while recording. > > Actually, the current form of DVHS is one step backward from > today's VHS recorders which have integrated tuners, and > multiple program recording. > > When will a normal HD-TiVo arrive? We'll see, but until then I refuse > to rely on the one bound & gagged by a DirecTV contract. > > That's why the HDTV PCI cards on the Mac provide the most control, > given > someone writes the software for it. :) > And Elgato's EyeTv 500 is nice, but again lacks a MPEG decoder > which greatly increases the CPU power required. Just try viewing > 1080i programs on a Dual 1GHz G4 in VideoLan, it can't handle it (yet). > > --Mike > From justmike at openprojects.rarcoa.com Fri Oct 1 07:37:01 2004 From: justmike at openprojects.rarcoa.com (Michael Bytnar) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: HD TV for Mac (Re: HD TV for PC) In-Reply-To: <04DFC19C-13B2-11D9-BA61-000A95B770F2@ipix.com> References: <049B100ED523D411BA250008C7F9A46819075168@mail1.americanhotel.com> <20041001133831.GA12881@openprojects.rarcoa.com> <04DFC19C-13B2-11D9-BA61-000A95B770F2@ipix.com> Message-ID: <20041001143701.GB12881@openprojects.rarcoa.com> DVHS via Firewire is a simple protocol. It only defines these functions: Record, Record Pause, Play, Pause, Stop, Rewind, and Fast Forward That's it. There is no Tuner control interface, unless you count the external HDTV tuner's remote control. Also, be aware there is no recording management via DVHS, you cannot delete recordings, nor choose one randomly. DVHS uses pseudo timecodes to track the ordering of recordings. All management of the recordings takes place on the DVHS deck (or for Virtual DVHS, it takes place in the application outside the tuner's control.) I had my Mac hooked up as a DVHS to a Samsung SIRT-165, using Apple's VirtualDVHS program. It was exciting to record the HDTV/MPEG data, but that wore off when I realized this combination fails at doing anything more advanced. (Seasons pass, time-shift & watch a 2nd station, easily manage recordings, recommendations, etc.) Realize that you can set the Samsung tuner to record a station at a specific time to a DVHS device, and you can later replay the recording back, but you cannot do anything more. Compared to this, Elgato's EyeTV 500 beats a DVHS combo any day. With Elgato & PCI card solutions, you get scheduled recordings, tuner control, realtime time-shifting and recording management. Further, with 2 PCI cards, you can record & watch a 2nd channel. The options are available, but using a Mac as a DVHS is not what I would call desireable. --Mike On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 09:58:49AM -0400, Robert G Palmer Jr wrote: > I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Given only the applications > discussed here so far, you are correct, it's DVHS only. However, if > someone took the initiative to build a software solution similar to > Elgato's I think you could have a very elegant ReplayTV (that's what I > own ;) like device. From what I've read (I'm definitely no expert), > the Firewire interface is supposed to allow control of the Tuner as > well as streaming the video. If this is actually the case, then the > software could change channels and start recording whenever it wanted > to. The only piece missing is the cool ReplayTV like software > application. > > On Oct 1, 2004, at 9:38 AM, Michael Bytnar wrote: > > >HDTV/ATSC via Firewire only provides DVHS at this time. > >Talk about 2 steps back. They still don't realize consumers > >that have used TiVo's features will never go back to a > >VHS-like system where you have to tune the TV yourself, > >set the time to record, and don't touch the TV tuner while the DVHS > >recording is taking place. > > > >DVHS sucks, if you've come to value TiVo's features: > >instantaneous time-shifting & catchup, > >set-it-and-forget-it recording simplicity for any program, > >record & watch a 2nd station while recording. > > > >Actually, the current form of DVHS is one step backward from > >today's VHS recorders which have integrated tuners, and > >multiple program recording. > > > >When will a normal HD-TiVo arrive? We'll see, but until then I refuse > >to rely on the one bound & gagged by a DirecTV contract. > > > >That's why the HDTV PCI cards on the Mac provide the most control, > >given > >someone writes the software for it. :) > >And Elgato's EyeTv 500 is nice, but again lacks a MPEG decoder > >which greatly increases the CPU power required. Just try viewing > >1080i programs on a Dual 1GHz G4 in VideoLan, it can't handle it (yet). > > > >--Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From jmelloy at visualdistortion.org Fri Oct 1 12:21:50 2004 From: jmelloy at visualdistortion.org (Jeffrey Melloy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: Growl In-Reply-To: References: <0EB48119-11B4-11D9-BA47-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <415DAE4E.8060007@visualdistortion.org> steve harley wrote: > at 2004-09-28, 6:08 PM -0700, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: > >> What kinds of things are people using Growl for right now? > > > among other things, Growl can serve as a fairly lightweight > substitute for display dialog (which is synchronous) to do > asynchronous notifications from AppleScript or Python.. for > instance i have a script which checks for new messages in > Mail and announces the number of new messages in each > mailbox (since the unread count is for me pretty useless).. > having Growl display the message improves the script > > other than that, and without probing deeply, i don't see the > basic mechanism covers any ground, except perhaps in OO > elegance, that Apple Events hadn't already covered.. and > won't Tiger apps be able to trigger Dashboard widgets too? > Growl is fairly nice. It works with Adium, Colloquy, and DriveGauge, among others ... and serves fairly nicely as an iTunes notifier. jeff From russ.harlan at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 09:21:59 2004 From: russ.harlan at gmail.com (Russ Harlan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: Blackberry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29e7c0fc041002092149d3111d@mail.gmail.com> Has anyone actually used on of these yet? I'm wondering about the organizare software, specifically the task list... has it improved over the anemic version provided with the traditional Blackberry? Or is it more of the same? On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 05:57:30 -0700, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 1:42 PM +0200 10/1/04, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > >So, anyone has any experience synching the new RIM phones with Mac OS X? > > > >I am going to get one and since it has Bluetooth, I was wondering. > > I haven't tried this software yet, but it has an impressive feature list: > > http://www.pocketmac.net/products/pmblackberry/index.html > > Previous to this software, it was not possible to sync the Blackberry > to the Mac. > > mark > > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development > Tyrell Software Corp > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From gkreme at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 15:28:11 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: LDAP (was Re: is netinfo going away?) In-Reply-To: References: <2CC54A75-1497-11D9-904C-003065C12208@softhome.net> Message-ID: So, I have a OS X machine (non-server version) and I want to setup ldap on it to act as a centralized address book. All the readme's I can find are for OS X Server, and all leave out crucial steps like 1. How to configure the slapd.conf file 2. How to get your addresses into the LDAP 3. lots of other details. I can get slapd running with no authentication (not really what I want, but it would be a start) but the only tools I found to transport the AB data to LDAP require authentication be enabled. (Or at least the errors implied this was the problem) So, anyone got a simple writeup for this that a well-trained monk-- erm, ape could understand? From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Sat Oct 2 23:49:33 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: dvd i/o error Message-ID: <20041003064933.GA727@4321.tv> Hi, I have been asked to look into the reason why a DVD will not function in a DVD player. I decided to copy the files from the DVD to my hard drive to see if they would play there. However, one of the VOB files would not copy, and I got an input/output error. What I'm wondering if it's possible for me to "copy around" the error and try and have a mostly complete VOB file. Does this make sense? Is it possible? It should be noted that this DVD is a burned copy (buyer beware on eBay). $ cp /Volumes/Super\ DVD\ Copy/VTS_01_1.VOB test.vob cp: /Volumes/Super DVD Copy/VTS_01_1.VOB: Input/output error Thx for any help. -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From chad at objectwerks.com Sat Oct 2 23:52:19 2004 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: disputing a credit card charge Re: Sigh In-Reply-To: References: <200409291902.i8TJ2CZS008866@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: On Sep 29, 2004, at 2:55 PM, Arno Hautala wrote: > I'm not sure here, but I don't think you want to dispute the charge > "just in case". If they claim that a refund is forthcoming you should > wait for the refund. Disputing the claim is like saying I never made > this charge or the seller is refusing a refund. Disputing the charge > might appear like you're trying to get double your money back. That > won't happen, but it might lead to more hassle than need be. As a merchant myself, I would agree that you should not dispute a credit card transaction "just in case". It should be the last step when you have no other option. It is a VERY BIG PITA for the merchant to have a transaction disputed, and if he is trying to satisfy you, even if not doing a great job, he will be turned off by it and be less easy to deal with and it will also cause the merchant all sorts of problems (merchants have to respond with a bunch of paperwork and records within a very short amount of time). Having said that. If the merchant is not satisfying you and they are not trying to find common ground, and you really do have a case, it is a good thing for you to do. But work with the merchant until it is no longer possible. I have been accepting credit cards for 8 years or more. I have only ever had 2 transactions disputed, one in 2001 and one this year, and in both cases, it was a case of mistaken identity by the card holder (the company name on their credit card statement for the transaction did not look familiar as it is different than my website name). Once I contacted them they remembered and withdrew the dispute. I still had to comply with the processing company's paperwork demands, which cost me some money (to Priority Mail them the stuff) and a lot of time to look things up, make copies, etc. As a consumer I have disputed a few transactions over the years. Back in the mid 90s I disputed the charge by a computer parts company for a computer main board I had purchased, which never arrived. I tried to work with the vendor but they were not interested in getting me a board so I had to dispute that. It stuck. Back in late 99 I ordered a bunch of polo shirts with my ObjectWerks Inc logo embroidered on them for a booth I had at MacWorld Tokyo 2000. The dumb idiot at the vendor for the shirts used a wrong color in the embroidery (really wrong -- a really light blue instead of dark blue) and it looked really strange. I tried to work with the guy but he wanted me to buy new shirts that he would embroidery for free. I told him it was his mistake and he had to make good on it. He refused so I disputed. I won. Back in 94 I ordered some items from a place and never got them. Laws changed regarding the items the day I ordered them so they became a lot more valuable to the dealer as he held on to them. But he still charge my card. He kept promising to send them but never did. I disputed and won that one too. The dealer decided to just hold on to the items as their value was sure to go up. I am in the middle of 2 disputes with AMEX, for the same "vendor". I paid a lawyer group for some help. Lots of $$$. They are way past schedule, have not responded to my emails or returned my calls since early June, and do not appear to have done anything on my case at all based on paperwork I get from the "enemy" in my problem. I finally called AMEX and told them I was disputing the charges based on this group not doing anything and not responding to me. We'll see how this pans out. Best regards Chad > > -- ____ > -- > arno s. hautala / \ > / /\ \ > /__/--\__\ > arno@alum.wpi.edu > -- > -- > > On 2004 Sep 29, at 15:02, macosx-talk-request@omnigroup.com wrote: > >> From: "Brian Dipert" >> Date: 2004 September 28 20:08:57 EDT >> To: >> Subject: Re: Sigh.... >> Reply-To: bdipert@pacbell.net >> >> >> Thanks to all of you who responded.....even the sarcastic ones ;-) >> The dual >> 1 GHz G4 PowerMac headed back from whence it came yesterday, with >> shipping >> paid by MegaMacs and promises of a full refund. I've disputed the >> charge on >> my credit card just in case. In its place, a refurb'd 1.6 GHz G5 >> PowerMac >> from the Apple Store just arrived. I think I'll have a better >> experience >> this time! >> >> p.s...the 'but it dual-boots Mac OS 9.2.2' comment I got from >> MegaMacs had >> nothing to do with Quicksilver-vs-MMD. They'd already acknowledged >> that >> screwup. It was part of their justification for why I should keep the >> G4, >> even with the lame refund they offered me, versus the G5 > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From jay at fleeingrabbit.com Sun Oct 3 09:31:43 2004 From: jay at fleeingrabbit.com (Jay Cotton) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: searching for readline() in my header files In-Reply-To: References: <200409291902.i8TJ2CZS008866@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: Hello macosx-talk, Anybody know where the C getline() function is defined on OS 10.3? I've tried including all the various recommended headers with no luck. Also, anybody know why I'm not able to grep through my header files as superuser? Here's what I did: $ cd /usr/include/gcc/darwin/2.95.2/g++/ $ sudo grep 'readline' * Password: grep: std: Operation not permitted My unix skill are pretty shaky, but I figured nothing would stop my grep command if I preceded it with sudo. Thanks for any input! Jay From pelorus at mac.com Sun Oct 3 09:45:20 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: searching for readline() in my header files In-Reply-To: References: <200409291902.i8TJ2CZS008866@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <9D376D98-155B-11D9-97AD-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 3 Oct 2004, at 17:31, Jay Cotton wrote: > Hello macosx-talk, > Anybody know where the C getline() function is defined on OS 10.3? > I've tried including all the various recommended headers with no luck. Not a programmer but sifting through some third party code tells me it's in one of these: #include #include #include #include I could hazard a guess :) > Also, anybody know why I'm not able to grep through my header files as > superuser? Here's what I did: > > $ cd /usr/include/gcc/darwin/2.95.2/g++/ > $ sudo grep 'readline' * > Password: > > grep: std: Operation not permitted Because 'std' is a link to the current directory within /usr/include/gcc/darwin/2.95.2/g++/ You can't grep a directory file. > My unix skill are pretty shaky, but I figured nothing would stop my > grep command if I preceded it with sudo. Well, shows a little knowledge just causes problems. M From henry at trilithon.com Sun Oct 3 10:16:07 2004 From: henry at trilithon.com (Henry McGilton) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: searching for readline() in my header files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sunday, October 3, 2004, at 09:31 AM, Jay Cotton wrote: > Hello macosx-talk, > > Anybody know where the C getline() function is defined on OS 10.3? > I've tried including all the various recommended headers with no luck. Did you want getline() or readline()? The message subject says readline(); The message body says getline(); getline() looks like it's part of C++ istream class, which looks like it's in iostream.h readline() looks like it's part of mysql. > > Also, anybody know why I'm not able to grep through my header files as > superuser? Here's what I did: > > $ cd /usr/include/gcc/darwin/2.95.2/g++/ > $ sudo grep 'readline' * > Password: > > grep: std: Operation not permitted > > > My unix skill are pretty shaky, but I figured nothing would stop my > grep command if I preceded it with sudo. You should not need to be super user to do grep. Use the -r (recursive) option: Assuming you went to /usr/include via: cd /usr/include (or wherever . . . ) You would then type: grep -r getline . (notice the . to indicate the current directory) to perform a recursive search. In your terminal window, try typing: man grep for a description of the options. Also, take a look at: http://www.cplusplus.com/ref/iostream/istream/getline.html Cheers, ........ Henry ===============================+============================ Henry McGilton, Boulevardier | Trilithon Software Objective-C/Java Composer | Seroia Research -------------------------------+---------------------------- mailto:henry@trilithon.com | http://www.trilithon.com | ===============================+============================ From gkreme at gmail.com Sun Oct 3 10:26:18 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: WebDAV errors Message-ID: I have a server that has several working webdav mounts on it. I recently added a new one. I copied the virtualhost from a working webdav setup and simply changed the locations: This configuration works: ServerName www.siteone.tld ServerAlias siteone.tld #DavLockDB var/DAVLock DavLockDB /tmp/DavLock.site1 DAV On AuthType Basic AuthName "SITE1" AuthUserFile /usr/local/www/site1.tld/.htdavpass AllowOverride All ForceType text/plain require user site1admin DocumentRoot /usr/local/www/site1.tld/ This gives an error in OS X that "The operation cannot be completed because one or more required items cannot be found. (Error code: -43)." Nothing shows up in the http-error.log ServerName www.site2.com ServerAlias site2.com ServerAlias site2alias.com ServerAlias www.site2alias.com DocumentRoot /home/user/Sites/site2/ Alias /site2 /home/user/Sites/site2/ DavLockDB /tmp/DavLock.site2 DAV On AuthType Basic AuthName "Site2.com DAV" AuthUserFile /home/user/.htdavpass AllowOverride All ForceType text/plain require user site2admin I get this in the http-access.log "OPTIONS /site2/ HTTP/1.1" 401 483 "-" "WebDAVFS/1.2.7 (01278000) Darwin/7.5.0 (Power Macintosh)" "OPTIONS /site2/ HTTP/1.1" 200 0 "-" "WebDAVFS/1.2.7 (01278000) Darwin/7.5.0 (Power Macintosh)" "PROPFIND /site2/ HTTP/1.1" 404 290 "-" "WebDAVFS/1.2.7 (01278000) Darwin/7.5.0 (Power Macintosh)" which looks to me like auth request, success, oops, couldn't find something. But what? The webDAV server is a freeBSD machine. It's not a password issue as it will reject an incorrect password as being incorrect. The DocumentRoot for site2 is owned by www:site2admin and the directory has 775 as the permissions. The only difference is that site2admin is a shell user and site1 is webdav only, so is located under the server's root. I don't see how that could possibly matter though... The only thing I can see is that the error is occurring either before or during the write of the lock file. There is no DavLock.site2 lock pair being created in /tmp/ -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From jay at fleeingrabbit.com Sun Oct 3 10:31:42 2004 From: jay at fleeingrabbit.com (Jay Cotton) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: searching for readline() in my header files In-Reply-To: <9D376D98-155B-11D9-97AD-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <200409291902.i8TJ2CZS008866@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <9D376D98-155B-11D9-97AD-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <171246AC-1562-11D9-9634-000393D94636@fleeingrabbit.com> On Oct 3, 2004, at 12:45 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: > On 3 Oct 2004, at 17:31, Jay Cotton wrote: > >> Hello macosx-talk, >> Anybody know where the C getline() function is defined on OS 10.3? >> I've tried including all the various recommended headers with no >> luck. > > Not a programmer but sifting through some third party code tells me > it's in one of these: > > #include > #include > #include > #include > > I could hazard a guess :) > >> Also, anybody know why I'm not able to grep through my header files >> as superuser? Here's what I did: >> >> $ cd /usr/include/gcc/darwin/2.95.2/g++/ >> $ sudo grep 'readline' * >> Password: >> >> grep: std: Operation not permitted > > Because 'std' is a link to the current directory within > /usr/include/gcc/darwin/2.95.2/g++/ > > You can't grep a directory file. > >> My unix skill are pretty shaky, but I figured nothing would stop my >> grep command if I preceded it with sudo. > > Well, shows a little knowledge just causes problems. > > M My apologies - I was up too late last night. Notice that the function I'm looking for (getline()) is *not* what I typed into my grep line (readline). Oops! I spent the other morning trying to get readline() to work with irb and I guess it's stuck in my brain. Matt: I believe the getline() function you're referring to is the C++ function that returns a stream object. I'm looking for the C function: ssize_t getline (char **lineptr, size_t *n, FILE *stream) http://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/glibc/libc_185.html From what I can tell, it is a GNU extension that is not installed on OS X (and if it isn't part of the ansi standard I probably shouldn't use it anyway). A little knowledge can cause problems, but the only way to learn something is to pass through a phase of having a little knowledge, right? 'std' isn't a link to the current directory ('.') - it's a normal directory inside of the g++ directory. I was surprised that I didn't get *any* results at all from my command (I was expecting at least the C++ functions), but of course that's because I typed the wrong damn thing! Also, you can grep a directory (or at least recursively grep the files within it) by using the '-r' flag. All I wanted was to grep the files and skip the directories. I thought I was getting a different error altogether because I didn't get any results at all (I was expecting the C++ function definitions at least). Jay From pelorus at mac.com Sun Oct 3 10:52:18 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: searching for readline() in my header files In-Reply-To: <171246AC-1562-11D9-9634-000393D94636@fleeingrabbit.com> References: <200409291902.i8TJ2CZS008866@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <9D376D98-155B-11D9-97AD-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <171246AC-1562-11D9-9634-000393D94636@fleeingrabbit.com> Message-ID: On 3 Oct 2004, at 18:31, Jay Cotton wrote: > Matt: I believe the getline() function you're referring to is the C++ > function that returns a stream object. I'm looking for the C function: Possibly but that's all double-dutch to me. It's also in perl... > A little knowledge can cause problems, but the only way to learn > something is to pass through a phase of having a little knowledge, > right? Well, knowing to use sudo is one thing. Misinterpreting the error with 'std' is another thing entirely. You'll not make the same mistake again. :) > 'std' isn't a link to the current directory ('.') - it's a normal > directory inside of the g++ directory. On Mac OS X 10.3, it's a link to the g++ directory. Which was the current directory when executing a command within /usr/include/gcc/darwin/2.95.2/g++ aluminatus:/usr/include/gcc/darwin/2.95.2/g++ mjohnstn$ ls -la | grep std -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 152 12 Sep 2003 cstdarg -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 152 12 Sep 2003 cstddef -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 155 12 Sep 2003 cstdio -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 443 12 Sep 2003 cstdlib lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1 8 Dec 2003 std -> . -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 2899 12 Sep 2003 stdexcept > I was surprised that I didn't get *any* results at all from my > command (I was expecting at least the C++ functions), but of course > that's because I typed the wrong damn thing! Well, yeah. And the 'std' error was a red herring. > Also, you can grep a directory (or at least recursively grep the files > within it) Which is not the same thing as grepping a directory file. > by using the '-r' flag. All I wanted was to grep the files and skip > the directories. I thought I was getting a different error altogether > because I didn't get any results at all (I was expecting the C++ > function definitions at least). Well, I'm sure you've sorted it by now. M From gkreme at gmail.com Sun Oct 3 11:00:55 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: dvd i/o error In-Reply-To: <20041003064933.GA727@4321.tv> References: <20041003064933.GA727@4321.tv> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 01:49:33 -0500, Brian Medley wrote: > Hi, > > I have been asked to look into the reason why a DVD will not > function in a DVD player. I decided to copy the files from the > DVD to my hard drive to see if they would play there. However, > one of the VOB files would not copy, and I got an input/output > error. > > What I'm wondering if it's possible for me to "copy around" the > error and try and have a mostly complete VOB file. Does this > make sense? Is it possible? Yep. I did this with a bad DVD, using the command line cp to copy the VOB file. > $ cp /Volumes/Super\ DVD\ Copy/VTS_01_1.VOB test.vob > cp: /Volumes/Super DVD Copy/VTS_01_1.VOB: Input/output error if cp failed try dd. If that still fails you are out of luck, I think. -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From scott at maxify.com Sun Oct 3 15:38:42 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: searching for readline() in my header files In-Reply-To: <171246AC-1562-11D9-9634-000393D94636@fleeingrabbit.com> References: <200409291902.i8TJ2CZS008866@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <9D376D98-155B-11D9-97AD-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <171246AC-1562-11D9-9634-000393D94636@fleeingrabbit.com> Message-ID: On Oct 3, 2004, at 10:31 AM, Jay Cotton wrote: > ssize_t getline (char **lineptr, size_t *n, FILE *stream) > > http://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/glibc/libc_185.html > > From what I can tell, it is a GNU extension that is not installed on > OS X (and if it isn't part of the ansi standard I probably shouldn't > use it anyway). It's part of glibc, yes. The bsd counterpart is fgetln(). Do a "man 3 fgetln". The "standard" version shared by both is fgets(), but it lacks some things the others have. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Sun Oct 3 17:31:57 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: dvd i/o error In-Reply-To: References: <20041003064933.GA727@4321.tv> Message-ID: <20041004003156.GB727@4321.tv> On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 12:00:55PM -0600, Google Kreme wrote: > Yep. I did this with a bad DVD, using the command line cp to > copy the VOB file. > > > $ cp /Volumes/Super\ DVD\ Copy/VTS_01_1.VOB test.vob > > cp: /Volumes/Super DVD Copy/VTS_01_1.VOB: Input/output error > > if cp failed try dd. If that still fails you are out of luck, I think. Good idea: $ dd if=/dev/disk2 of=sp.iso dd: /dev/disk2: Input/output error 1513408+0 records in 1513408+0 records out 774864896 bytes transferred in 881.365931 secs (879164 bytes/sec) $ dd if=/dev/disk2 of=sp2.iso skip=1513410 dd: /dev/disk2: Input/output error 0+0 records in 0+0 records out 0 bytes transferred in 29.829025 secs (0 bytes/sec) $ dd if=/dev/disk2 of=sp2.iso skip=1523410 dd: /dev/disk2: Input/output error 439278+0 records in 439278+0 records out 224910336 bytes transferred in 316.572801 secs (710454 bytes/sec) If I'm reading this correctly, it basically means the disk has multiple errors. Unless there's an automatic rebuild procedure (such as Diskwarrior), then I guess they'll have to stick w/ a broken DVD. Thx for the reply, tho. -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From gkreme at gmail.com Sun Oct 3 19:11:11 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: dvd i/o error In-Reply-To: <20041004003156.GB727@4321.tv> References: <20041003064933.GA727@4321.tv> <20041004003156.GB727@4321.tv> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 19:31:57 -0500, Brian Medley wrote: > $ dd if=/dev/disk2 of=sp.iso > dd: /dev/disk2: Input/output error > 1513408+0 records in > 1513408+0 records out > 774864896 bytes transferred in 881.365931 secs (879164 bytes/sec) > $ dd if=/dev/disk2 of=sp2.iso skip=1513410 > dd: /dev/disk2: Input/output error > 0+0 records in > 0+0 records out > 0 bytes transferred in 29.829025 secs (0 bytes/sec) > $ dd if=/dev/disk2 of=sp2.iso skip=1523410 > dd: /dev/disk2: Input/output error > 439278+0 records in > 439278+0 records out > 224910336 bytes transferred in 316.572801 secs (710454 bytes/sec) dd if=/dev/disk2 of=sp3.iso skip=1523410 skip=1962688 lather, rinse, repeat single block error on a .vob is insignificant. -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Sun Oct 3 20:27:20 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: dvd i/o error In-Reply-To: References: <20041003064933.GA727@4321.tv> <20041004003156.GB727@4321.tv> Message-ID: <20041004032720.GC727@4321.tv> On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 08:11:11PM -0600, Google Kreme wrote: > On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 19:31:57 -0500, Brian Medley wrote: > > $ dd if=/dev/disk2 of=sp.iso > > dd: /dev/disk2: Input/output error > > 1513408+0 records in > > 1513408+0 records out > > 774864896 bytes transferred in 881.365931 secs (879164 bytes/sec) > > $ dd if=/dev/disk2 of=sp2.iso skip=1513410 > > dd: /dev/disk2: Input/output error > > 0+0 records in > > 0+0 records out > > 0 bytes transferred in 29.829025 secs (0 bytes/sec) > > $ dd if=/dev/disk2 of=sp2.iso skip=1523410 > > dd: /dev/disk2: Input/output error > > 439278+0 records in > > 439278+0 records out > > 224910336 bytes transferred in 316.572801 secs (710454 bytes/sec) > > dd if=/dev/disk2 of=sp3.iso skip=1523410 skip=1962688 > > lather, rinse, repeat > > single block error on a .vob is insignificant. I didn't mean to imply that there were technical limitations in dd that would not allow this procedure. Rather the limit is how much time I'm willing to put in the procedure.... -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From spoun at mac.com Sun Oct 3 11:16:32 2004 From: spoun at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ferenc_Farkas_M=C1TY=C1S?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: regular expressions in the search field In-Reply-To: References: <9878A138-F486-11D8-87A2-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: <5ADD77A6-1568-11D9-9615-000A9576E324@mac.com> Hi, Is there an extension to apply regular expressions, like ? for 1 character * for everything in the search field in the Finder Window? -- Regards, Ferenc Farkas M?TY?S From mah at jump-ing.de Mon Oct 4 02:23:46 2004 From: mah at jump-ing.de (Markus Hitter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: searching for readline() in my header files In-Reply-To: References: <200409291902.i8TJ2CZS008866@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <9D376D98-155B-11D9-97AD-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <171246AC-1562-11D9-9634-000393D94636@fleeingrabbit.com> Message-ID: <1815FBC0-15E7-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Am 04.10.2004 um 00:38 schrieb Scott Stevenson: > > On Oct 3, 2004, at 10:31 AM, Jay Cotton wrote: > >> ssize_t getline (char **lineptr, size_t *n, FILE *stream) >> >> http://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/glibc/libc_185.html >> >> From what I can tell, it is a GNU extension that is not installed on >> OS X (and if it isn't part of the ansi standard I probably shouldn't >> use it anyway). > > It's part of glibc, yes. > > The bsd counterpart is fgetln(). Do a "man 3 fgetln". > > The "standard" version shared by both is fgets(), but it lacks some > things the others have. To complete the answer, readline is a GNU package on it's own: . Many other packages use it, so you find readline headers in many places, including MySql headers. Both, readline and getline() are C, so C++ isn't involved at all. My $0.02 Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ From wjcheeseman at earthlink.net Mon Oct 4 05:46:06 2004 From: wjcheeseman at earthlink.net (Bill Cheeseman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: [ANN] PreFab UI Actions 1.0 Message-ID: *** "Universal Attachability" for AppleScript *** PreFab Software, Inc. and Bill Cheeseman are pleased to announce the release of version 1.0 of their new product, PreFab UI Actions. UI Actions implements "universal attachability" for AppleScript. With UI Actions, you attach an AppleScript script to a native Mac OS X application. >From then on, the script will be triggered automatically every time the user performs the actions you specify in the target application. A UI Action script can respond to all manner of user actions, such as opening or closing a window, selecting a menu item, editing a text field and many others. UI Actions requires Mac OS X 10.3 Panther or newer. Download a free 30-day trial version of UI Actions 1.0 now at http://www.prefab.com/uiactions/. The introductory price for UI Actions is $25. Starting December 1, 2004, the regular price of $35 will take effect. Quantity discounts are available. PreFab UI Actions is universal. While Apple's Folder Actions and Digital Hub Actions are specialized tools that let your scripts respond when the user performs narrowly defined tasks, UI Actions goes much further. It allows any accessible user interface element in any application to trigger a script in response to any user action. UI Actions opens up whole new worlds of possibilities. An attached UI Action script can even query the target application for useful information about the user action that triggered it. The information available to a UI Action script includes a reference to the UI element that was affected by the user's action, as well as all of its attributes, such as position, size, title, role and value. Using this information, every UI Action script can draw upon the full capabilities of AppleScript, including Apple's new GUI Scripting, to amplify and enhance the power of the target application. Power users now have completely new ways to customize their Macintosh. Technical staff and consultants can tailor off-the-shelf applications in ways never before possible. Developers can target their products to specific vertical markets without touching existing code. Individual users can make their Mac even easier to use and more powerful. PreFab Software, Inc. has unmatched experience controlling the GUI via scripts, releasing PreFab Player in 1994 with continued sales and support today for Mac OS 9 and earlier. In 2003, PreFab entered the world of Mac OS X with PreFab UI Browser, a popular utility to support Apple's new GUI Scripting technology. PreFab UI Actions, implementing "universal attachability" for AppleScript, followed in 2004. Download fully-functional 30-day trial versions at www.prefab.com/scripting.html. UI Browser and UI Actions are based on Bill Cheeseman's Cocoa framework for working with Apple's accessibility API. -- Bill Cheeseman - wjcheeseman@prefab.com PreFab Software, Inc. - www.prefab.com/scripting.html From chad at objectwerks.com Mon Oct 4 11:13:40 2004 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: dvd io Message-ID: <1EA86534-1631-11D9-AAED-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> I deleted the thread before I replied, but the original poster was wanting to recover files from a damaged DVD. I just did something similar to a data CD that contained a WAV file a friend had. The CD was giving IO errors. I used dd and it would die at the error point. I then did the following % dd if=/dev/disk3s0 of=kevin.dmg conv=noerror and it was able to get the whole thing (minus the couple damaged blocks). I did not have to keep using skip, etc. I was even able to burn the resulting image no problem. Chad From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Mon Oct 4 19:45:10 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: dvd io In-Reply-To: <1EA86534-1631-11D9-AAED-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <1EA86534-1631-11D9-AAED-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <20041005024510.GL727@4321.tv> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 12:13:40PM -0600, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > I deleted the thread before I replied, but the original poster was > wanting to recover files from a damaged DVD. I just did something > similar to a data CD that contained a WAV file a friend had. The CD > was giving IO errors. > > I used dd and it would die at the error point. I then did the > following > > % dd if=/dev/disk3s0 of=kevin.dmg conv=noerror > > and it was able to get the whole thing (minus the couple damaged > blocks). I did not have to keep using skip, etc. I was even able to > burn the resulting image no problem. That's a pretty cool command. It seemed to work for me, because I got a 1.2 GB ISO out it. However, I got error -39 trying to burn the iso (this is with two different blanks). I'm guessing the ISO is foobar. However, I was able to mount it and run VLC on the .VOB files. Turns out the ebay seller didn't even send the correct DVD. It had the correct sticker as the cover (south park) but it was some movie. I guess the seller is so busy screwing people over on ebay that they aren't even worried about quality screwage...:) -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Tue Oct 5 05:14:33 2004 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: Ballmer: Customers SUCK! Message-ID: <1E278CB4-16C8-11D9-BDBC-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Well, how else do you interpret this: http://news.com.com/Ballmer+iPods+packed+with+stolen+tunes/2100-1027_3 -5395870.html?tag=nefd.top "We've had DRM (digital rights management) in Windows for years," Ballmer said. "The most common format of music on an iPod is stolen." So his issue with the iPod is not that it fails to serve customers well. It's that he believes (no evidence given) that customers are doing bad things with it, so it must be bad. I think that's the current attitude of MS in a nutshell. The customer is the enemy. -jimbo Fantastic - Excelsior! 2 - Excelsior! Path XML Tools for Mac OS X http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Oct 5 06:37:18 2004 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme Message-ID: I certainly hope so. Screw metal and unify all in this: http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=676 j. From pcoskren at mac.com Tue Oct 5 06:59:56 2004 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 5, 2004, at 9:37 AM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > I certainly hope so. Screw metal and unify all in this: > > http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=676 Looks like Outlook. I like being able to hide my list of mailboxes most of the time. As for the overall theme, it looks fine. I'm not sure it's really much different from the current one. -Patrick From das at doit.wisc.edu Tue Oct 5 07:02:46 2004 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: Ballmer: Customers SUCK! In-Reply-To: <1E278CB4-16C8-11D9-BDBC-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <1E278CB4-16C8-11D9-BDBC-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <3BE47728-16D7-11D9-8D57-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> His distinction doesn't even make sense. He says Windows Media has had DRM for years, and then somehow ties that to the majority of the iPod's music being stolen, presumably a veiled reference to the fact that iPod uses a different format. But that logic doesn't follow, because iPod's "paid" format ("Protected AAC") contains DRM (though in Apple's implementation is probably more forgiving and transparent than some alternatives). The "stolen" format he must be referring to is, therefore, MP3, a format that is also supported by all portable music players that support Windows Media! Since Apple's music store - which only works with iPod - has by far the largest market share of all online music stores, there is actually more legitimately purchased downloaded music (to say nothing of legally purchased CDs that have then been ripped) in use on iPods than on players that support Windows Media. If there are "stolen" MP3s in use on iPod, then there are stolen MP3s in use on ANY player that supports MP3 in the same proportions. And even if we concede that there might be physically more stolen music on iPods, in numbers of songs, it's only because iPods so ridiculously vastly outnumber any competitive player...not because iPods somehow magically enable more easy theft, when it's MP3 - not the iPod's "scary different non-Windows Media format", which IS DRM'ed - that constitutes the "theft", which is possible on ANY other player! [1] So, to sum up: nuthin' but FUD. - Dave [1] Except perhaps Sony's. ;-) (Yes, yes, I know they've announced they'll support MP3.) On Oct 5, 2004, at 7:14 AM, Jim Rankin wrote: > Well, how else do you interpret this: > > http://news.com.com/Ballmer+iPods+packed+with+stolen+tunes/2100 > -1027_3-5395870.html?tag=nefd.top > > "We've had DRM (digital rights management) in Windows for years," > Ballmer said. "The most common format of music on an iPod is stolen." > > So his issue with the iPod is not that it fails to serve customers > well. It's that he believes (no evidence given) that customers are > doing bad things with it, so it must be bad. > > I think that's the current attitude of MS in a nutshell. The customer > is the enemy. > > -jimbo > > Fantastic - Excelsior! 2 - Excelsior! Path > XML Tools for Mac OS X > http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Oct 5 07:03:44 2004 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: Ballmer: Customers SUCK! In-Reply-To: <1E278CB4-16C8-11D9-BDBC-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <1E278CB4-16C8-11D9-BDBC-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <5E710CBA-16D7-11D9-AAED-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Oct 5, 2004, at 6:14 AM, Jim Rankin wrote: > Well, how else do you interpret this: > > http://news.com.com/Ballmer+iPods+packed+with+stolen+tunes/2100 > -1027_3-5395870.html?tag=nefd.top > > "We've had DRM (digital rights management) in Windows for years," > Ballmer said. "The most common format of music on an iPod is stolen." I would dare say that the most common format of music on Windows is stolen. Who does he think drives the whole P2P scene? Fact: There are a lot MORE Windows machines out there. Fact: All the Windows-DRM based online stores have sold a lot less "legal" music than the Apple store. do the math > > So his issue with the iPod is not that it fails to serve customers > well. It's that he believes (no evidence given) that customers are > doing bad things with it, so it must be bad. So with his thinking, as you (probably correctly) attribute it to him, Windows is bad because the most common format of music on Windows is stolen. > > I think that's the current attitude of MS in a nutshell. The customer > is the enemy. > I don't ever know if he thinks, but he Ballmer sure didn't think before saying this. Just hope someone with more influence than I points this out to him and the press. best Chad > -jimbo > > Fantastic - Excelsior! 2 - Excelsior! Path > XML Tools for Mac OS X > http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From tallama at mac.com Tue Oct 5 08:38:06 2004 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8DA5E057-16E4-11D9-B064-000D936BCBCE@mac.com> On Oct 5, 2004, at 6:59 AM, Patrick Coskren wrote: > On Oct 5, 2004, at 9:37 AM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: >> I certainly hope so. Screw metal and unify all in this: >> >> http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=676 > > Looks like Outlook. I like being able to hide my list of mailboxes > most of the time. > > As for the overall theme, it looks fine. I'm not sure it's really > much different from the current one. What they need to do is pick one interface and use it for everything: none of this metal here, aqua there. Just standardize! Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." From tallama at mac.com Tue Oct 5 08:42:49 2004 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: Ballmer: Customers SUCK! In-Reply-To: <1E278CB4-16C8-11D9-BDBC-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <1E278CB4-16C8-11D9-BDBC-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <365625F6-16E5-11D9-B064-000D936BCBCE@mac.com> On Oct 5, 2004, at 5:14 AM, Jim Rankin wrote: > Well, how else do you interpret this: > > http://news.com.com/Ballmer+iPods+packed+with+stolen+tunes/2100 > -1027_3-5395870.html?tag=nefd.top Response from Robert Scoble, who works at Microsoft: Note that he links to other people who work at Microsoft, who also think it was a dumb thing to say. One thing I've gotta give to the 'softies: they let their employees blog, and dissenting opinions are heard and acknowledged. Lets see if Ballmer follows this trend. Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." From gkreme at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 08:48:51 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: <8DA5E057-16E4-11D9-B064-000D936BCBCE@mac.com> References: <8DA5E057-16E4-11D9-B064-000D936BCBCE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:38:06 -0700, The Amazing Llama wrote: > On Oct 5, 2004, at 6:59 AM, Patrick Coskren wrote: > > On Oct 5, 2004, at 9:37 AM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > >> I certainly hope so. Screw metal and unify all in this: > >> > >> http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=676 > > > > Looks like Outlook. I like being able to hide my list of mailboxes > > most of the time. > > > > As for the overall theme, it looks fine. I'm not sure it's really > > much different from the current one. > > What they need to do is pick one interface and use it for everything: > none of this metal here, aqua there. Just standardize! Erm... this assumes that one interface is perfectly suitable for everything. I don't buy that. -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From tallama at mac.com Tue Oct 5 08:54:11 2004 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: References: <8DA5E057-16E4-11D9-B064-000D936BCBCE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Oct 5, 2004, at 8:48 AM, Google Kreme wrote: > On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:38:06 -0700, The Amazing Llama > wrote: >> On Oct 5, 2004, at 6:59 AM, Patrick Coskren wrote: >>> As for the overall theme, it looks fine. I'm not sure it's really >>> much different from the current one. >> >> What they need to do is pick one interface and use it for everything: >> none of this metal here, aqua there. Just standardize! > > Erm... this assumes that one interface is perfectly suitable for > everything. I don't buy that. I'll agree, but I don't see enough of a functional difference between metal and aqua to justify splitting between the two. Aside from dragging, the only real changes are the ugliness factor. Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." From joar at joar.com Tue Oct 5 09:04:28 2004 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: References: <8DA5E057-16E4-11D9-B064-000D936BCBCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <3C2EEE58-16E8-11D9-A391-000A95A6F8C0@joar.com> On 2004-10-05, at 17.48, Google Kreme wrote: >> What they need to do is pick one interface and use it for everything: >> none of this metal here, aqua there. Just standardize! > > Erm... this assumes that one interface is perfectly suitable for > everything. I don't buy that. No, it assumes that one UI _theme_ should be suitable for everything - and I think it should. Besides, they should also kill off the "Pro UI" while at it. Sure it might look cool that their Pro apps have a darker tint to all their windows, but as I see it either 1) it's useful, and then all developers should be able to use this theme for their apps, or 2) it's just eye candy and / or branding, which would just confirm my opinion that Mac OS X is currently just a freaking free-for-all when it comes to UI coherence. I'm pretty sure it's #2... :( My vote: Standardize on one theme! j o a r From izidor.jerebic at siol.net Tue Oct 5 09:38:50 2004 From: izidor.jerebic at siol.net (Izidor Jerebic) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> On Oct 5, 2004, at 3:37 PM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > I certainly hope so. Screw metal and unify all in this: > > http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=676 > Well, I think that things are getting more and more like Windoze, i.e. worse. First there was ugly metal, now we have 2-D cartoonish Windows XP-like theme. It seems that the days of clear 3D-like, minimal, consistent and beautiful GUI are gone. And this from company that gave the world iPod and new iMac G5. Maybe all designers are now in iPod unit? All we need now is user-programmable themes, so some "beautiful" Linux themes can be imported, and we are set. The saddest thing is, even this hodge-podge is still better than the competition.... izidor From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Oct 5 09:55:00 2004 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: References: <8DA5E057-16E4-11D9-B064-000D936BCBCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <4B97B2A6-16EF-11D9-A6F3-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> > Erm... this assumes that one interface is perfectly suitable for > everything. I don't buy that. How a window texture could affect an interface and how you are buying into the whole "oh, but it's like a "real world" device" thing completely beats me. And now, excuse me while I use my real world Finder to find, like, my coffee cup. j. From nick at concaf.org Tue Oct 5 10:04:14 2004 From: nick at concaf.org (Nick Senior) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> Message-ID: <60820.68.33.42.101.1096995854.spork@webmail.concaf.org> Izidor Jerebic said: > > Well, I think that things are getting more and more like Windoze, i.e. > worse. First there was ugly metal, now we have 2-D cartoonish Windows > XP-like theme. One could argue that XP/Luna, having come out after X/Aqua is the bad copy here, but I'll agree that there are "cartoony" nuances about the panther finder that look crappy, namely labels and the zoomy icon application/document launching animation-thing. > All we need now is user-programmable themes, so some "beautiful" Linux > themes can be imported, and we are set. I really don't know if the user programmable theme thing is the silver bullet. While I wouldn't mind seeing the support there, the existing osx themes are all pretty much crap, and the linux window manager themes are even worse. Nick FWIW, I like the organization of the new mail, but the grey gradient background really doesn't float my boat. :\ -- Nick Senior Design Consultant / Framerate450 http://www.framerate450.com / http://www.deconst.com / http://www.concaf.org Work / Experimental / Narrative From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Oct 5 10:12:58 2004 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: <60820.68.33.42.101.1096995854.spork@webmail.concaf.org> References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> <60820.68.33.42.101.1096995854.spork@webmail.concaf.org> Message-ID: On Oct 5, 2004, at 11:04 AM, Nick Senior wrote: >> All we need now is user-programmable themes, so some "beautiful" Linux >> themes can be imported, and we are set. > > I really don't know if the user programmable theme thing is the silver > bullet. I think the original poster was being facetious Chad From nick at concaf.org Tue Oct 5 10:19:26 2004 From: nick at concaf.org (Nick Senior) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net><60820.68.33.42.101.1096995854.spork@webmail.concaf.org> Message-ID: <61342.68.33.42.101.1096996766.spork@webmail.concaf.org> Dammit I left my sarcasm detector at home this morning. oops. Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. said: > > On Oct 5, 2004, at 11:04 AM, Nick Senior wrote: > >>> All we need now is user-programmable themes, so some "beautiful" Linux >>> themes can be imported, and we are set. >> >> I really don't know if the user programmable theme thing is the silver >> bullet. > > I think the original poster was being facetious > > Chad > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > -- Nick Senior Design Consultant / Framerate450 http://www.framerate450.com / http://www.deconst.com / http://www.concaf.org Work / Experimental / Narrative From scott at maxify.com Tue Oct 5 15:07:46 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> Message-ID: On Oct 5, 2004, at 9:38 AM, Izidor Jerebic wrote: > First there was ugly metal, now we have 2-D cartoonish Windows XP-like > theme I realize you're being sarcastic about the user-defined themes, but are you serious about this? Where do you see cartoonish? The most significant change in this screenshot is the lack of separation of the title bar. The icons are all the same. In fact, they predate XP. > It seems that the days of clear 3D-like, minimal, consistent and > beautiful GUI are gone Are we looking at the same thing? :) - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From pelorus at mac.com Tue Oct 5 17:59:18 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> Message-ID: On 5 Oct 2004, at 23:07, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Oct 5, 2004, at 9:38 AM, Izidor Jerebic wrote: > >> First there was ugly metal, now we have 2-D cartoonish Windows >> XP-like theme > > I realize you're being sarcastic about the user-defined themes, but > are you serious about this? > > Where do you see cartoonish? The most significant change in this > screenshot is the lack of separation of the title bar. The icons are > all the same. In fact, they predate XP. I don't know what it is but the interface elements do smack of Longhorn rather than XP. Without seeing it all in context it's hard to imagine but that's the impression. I can't tell exactly but it looks like the rounded corners at the top of application windows are being deprecated. Sire, it looks more like the Pro apps now - whereas they are dark grey, these are lighter gradients....but then without context we can't see what the drop shadows look like...if thay are event present or if that's a "zoomed" screen. It's something about the way the window elements kinda flow into one another. I never realised how much I like drawers. From osx.rand at gmail.com Tue Oct 5 18:10:43 2004 From: osx.rand at gmail.com (rand) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> Message-ID: <7ea7adf00410051810682e70df@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 01:59:18 +0100, Matt Johnston wrote: > It's something about the way the window elements kinda flow into one > another. I never realised how much I like drawers. > Can't say I like drawers that much, seems like a waste of screen space with the spaces at the top and bottom of the drawers. I do like things that just all fit together and remember their places when you open them again, I like my screen semi structured in that way :) cheers rand From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Oct 5 18:24:36 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> Message-ID: at 2004-10-05, 6:38 PM +0200, they whom i call Izidor Jerebic wrote: >Well, I think that things are getting more and more like Windoze, >i.e. worse. First there was ugly metal, now we have 2-D cartoonish >Windows XP-like theme. It seems that the days of clear 3D-like, >minimal, consistent and beautiful GUI are gone. all these screen shots look flat because the drop shadows are missing -- steve harley From dave at difference.com.au Tue Oct 5 18:25:47 2004 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: <60820.68.33.42.101.1096995854.spork@webmail.concaf.org> References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> <60820.68.33.42.101.1096995854.spork@webmail.concaf.org> Message-ID: > > All we need now is user-programmable themes, so some "beautiful" Linux > > themes can be imported, and we are set. > >I really don't know if the user programmable theme thing is the silver >bullet. While I wouldn't mind seeing the support there, the existing osx >themes are all pretty much crap, and the linux window manager themes are >even worse. I think he meant 'set for an aesthetic disaster'. Cheers David From dave at difference.com.au Tue Oct 5 18:29:38 2004 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: <4B97B2A6-16EF-11D9-A6F3-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> References: <8DA5E057-16E4-11D9-B064-000D936BCBCE@mac.com> <4B97B2A6-16EF-11D9-A6F3-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> Message-ID: At 6:55 PM +0200 5/10/04, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: >>Erm... this assumes that one interface is perfectly suitable for >>everything. I don't buy that. > >How a window texture could affect an interface and how you are >buying into the whole "oh, but it's like a "real world" device" >thing completely beats me. > >And now, excuse me while I use my real world Finder to find, like, >my coffee cup. Unfair. The Finder is just misnamed. If it was just called something uncatchy like the file organiser then it would be fine. Hey, I do use iTunes to play my real world CDs, iPhoto to store my real world photos, etc. That said, slavish devotion to the real world metaphor is an interface pit that Apple has from time to time fallen into. Cheers Dave From dave at difference.com.au Tue Oct 5 18:23:25 2004 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: References: <8DA5E057-16E4-11D9-B064-000D936BCBCE@mac.com> Message-ID: > > > What they need to do is pick one interface and use it for everything: >> none of this metal here, aqua there. Just standardize! > >Erm... this assumes that one interface is perfectly suitable for >everything. I don't buy that. No, it assumes that the benefits of standardisation outweigh the benefits of separate themes. Given that both are pretty damn close in terms of functionality, its marginal either way, but I'd tend to fall on the standardisation side of the camp. And its worth noting that Apples first attempts at metal (back in Mac OS 9 days) were actually pretty disastrous - on the whole, while the two are pretty close these days, I can't say the decision was a good one from any technical standpoint. Of course, marketing wise, maybe it was, though is becoming less so (now that anyone can be metal), which is a completely different issue. Cheers David From bdipert at pacbell.net Tue Oct 5 22:46:03 2004 From: bdipert at pacbell.net (Brian Dipert) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: MPEG-2 (HDTV resolution); minimum Mac hardware specs for no-frame-drop playback? Message-ID: Folks, I've recently become interested in using the VirtualDVHS utility bundled with Apple's Xcode developer tools to capture MPEG-2 streams coming from my Samsung SIR-T165 HDTV set-top box over a Firewire connection. This topic is enthusiastically discussed on the AVSForum discussion lists; Google around for additional information such as here: http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20040426151111599&mode=print Anyhoo....the forums all seem to recommend playing back the captured MPEG-2 streams using VLC (the VideoLAN client). But the claim, which Elgato's website concurs with regarding its EyeTV 500 DTV receiver for the Mac, is that a DUAL 2 GHZ G5 POWERMAC is required, at minimum, for no-frame-drop playback of 1080i content. This seems excessive, in comparison to the corresponding Wintel platform requirements, but maybe not....I've purchased a single-CPU 1.6 GHz G5 PowerMac intended, among other things, for high-res video work, but if the information I'm seeing is true, this just won't do. Can anyone confirm or refute the information I'm seeing? Why isn't VLC (it seems) taking advantage of the MPEG-2 video decode hardware acceleration in these systems' ATI and Nvidia graphics cards? Can QuickTime or another OS X app do better? I assume that Apple's bundled DVD Player utility harnesses MPEG-2 hardware decode acceleration, but I don't think it can be used for my proposed purpose. Thanks in advance! ============================== Brian Dipert Technical Editor: Mass Storage, Memory, Multimedia, PC Core Logic and Peripherals, and Programmable Logic EDN Magazine: http://www.edn.com 5000 V Street Sacramento, CA 95817 (916) 454-5242 (voice), (617) 558-4470 (fax) mailto:bdipert@edn.com Visit me at http://www.bdipert.com From izidor.jerebic at siol.net Tue Oct 5 23:14:43 2004 From: izidor.jerebic at siol.net (Izidor Jerebic) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> Message-ID: <039EE35B-175F-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> On Oct 6, 2004, at 2:59 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > > On 5 Oct 2004, at 23:07, Scott Stevenson wrote: > >> >> On Oct 5, 2004, at 9:38 AM, Izidor Jerebic wrote: >> >>> First there was ugly metal, now we have 2-D cartoonish Windows >>> XP-like theme >> >> I realize you're being sarcastic about the user-defined themes, but >> are you serious about this? >> >> Where do you see cartoonish? The most significant change in this >> screenshot is the lack of separation of the title bar. The icons are >> all the same. In fact, they predate XP. > > I don't know what it is but the interface elements do smack of > Longhorn rather than XP. Without seeing it all in context it's hard to > imagine but that's the impression. > > I can't tell exactly but it looks like the rounded corners at the top > of application windows are being deprecated. Sire, it looks more like > the Pro apps now - whereas they are dark grey, these are lighter > gradients....but then without context we can't see what the drop > shadows look like...if thay are event present or if that's a "zoomed" > screen. > > It's something about the way the window elements kinda flow into one > another. I never realised how much I like drawers. > Yes, this is exactly the way I felt - there is lack of separation between parts inside window. Everything is one big unit, and also there is no window shadows on the screenshot. I use drawer in Mail and it is obviously separated from the main two-part window, which is also quite well separated inside. That is good in my opinion, since this separation helps you navigate and lets you focus on your task. You use less of your brain-CPU to find things. Thats why I like Aqua with a lots of white space, which improves ease-of-use. As much contrast you can get is good. Similar to black text on white paper, with paragraphs separated by empty lines, and titles having even larger white space around them... It is (or was, it is gone now) like a screenshot of Yahoo Mail or something. We should be having better interface then web apps... izidor From pelorus at mac.com Tue Oct 5 23:47:35 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: <039EE35B-175F-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> <039EE35B-175F-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> Message-ID: <9B16E80C-1763-11D9-BC23-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 6 Oct 2004, at 07:14, Izidor Jerebic wrote: > It is (or was, it is gone now) like a screenshot of Yahoo Mail or > something. We should be having better interface then web apps... It looks like Outlook. Whether or not Outlook's organisation is better, is this change because it is better or because switchers are complaining about how Mail looks? M From izidor.jerebic at siol.net Wed Oct 6 00:02:16 2004 From: izidor.jerebic at siol.net (Izidor Jerebic) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: Whitespace in GUI design (Was Re: New Theme) In-Reply-To: <039EE35B-175F-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> <039EE35B-175F-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> Message-ID: On Oct 6, 2004, at 8:14 AM, Izidor Jerebic wrote: > > Thats why I like Aqua with a lots of white space, which improves > ease-of-use. As much contrast you can get is good. Similar to black > text on white paper, with paragraphs separated by empty lines, and > titles having even larger white space around them... > It has occurred to me due to this debate, that Aqua is the first GUI that really understands the value of empty space in design. When you separate two buttons or other elements with white space instead of e.g. putting them together with a line between them, it is easier to work with them, because there is nothing between the elements which would attract eye attention. In effect, white space reinforces the buttons. The value of white (or empty) space is well understood in general in Japan culture (writing and visual), and in the west good designers make use of it (e.g. old and well designed books have large margins with nearly half of the page area white). This must be part of the reason why I like Aqua GUI so much and loathe other GUI schemes which I perceive as being way less aesthetic and useful... Computer geeks typically have zero understanding of even basic design principles and their GUI designs show exactly that. In past, there was a resource problem. But now with the hardware/software being advanced enough to have really beautiful computers and their GUI, there is no excuse for poor GUI... And in case somebody says that this is all just expensive overhead - it is proven that beautiful (i.e. pleasing to the eye and aesthetic) environment helps with lowering the stress and helps the creative thinking. Creative being breadth-first problem tree searches as opposed to analytical depht-first problem tree searches. This means that beauty is productive and pays for itself, especially if you do creative stuff... izidor From izidor.jerebic at siol.net Wed Oct 6 00:04:13 2004 From: izidor.jerebic at siol.net (Izidor Jerebic) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: <9B16E80C-1763-11D9-BC23-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> <039EE35B-175F-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> <9B16E80C-1763-11D9-BC23-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Oct 6, 2004, at 8:47 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > > On 6 Oct 2004, at 07:14, Izidor Jerebic wrote: > >> It is (or was, it is gone now) like a screenshot of Yahoo Mail or >> something. We should be having better interface then web apps... > > It looks like Outlook. > > Whether or not Outlook's organisation is better, is this change > because it is better or because switchers are complaining about how > Mail looks? > Yeah, might be the same marketing geniuses that wanted to have the ObjC with C++ syntax... izidor From izidor.jerebic at siol.net Wed Oct 6 01:08:57 2004 From: izidor.jerebic at siol.net (Izidor Jerebic) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: <9B16E80C-1763-11D9-BC23-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> <039EE35B-175F-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> <9B16E80C-1763-11D9-BC23-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Oct 6, 2004, at 8:47 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > > On 6 Oct 2004, at 07:14, Izidor Jerebic wrote: > >> It is (or was, it is gone now) like a screenshot of Yahoo Mail or >> something. We should be having better interface then web apps... > > It looks like Outlook. > > Well, I mentioned Yahoo because it looks like something a guy would come up with if he would be forced to quickly write a GUI app using CSS/HTML (e.g. Mail as Dashboard widget)... izidor From dave at difference.com.au Wed Oct 6 02:26:46 2004 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> <039EE35B-175F-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> <9B16E80C-1763-11D9-BC23-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: At 9:04 AM +0200 6/10/04, Izidor Jerebic wrote: >On Oct 6, 2004, at 8:47 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > >> >>On 6 Oct 2004, at 07:14, Izidor Jerebic wrote: >> >>>It is (or was, it is gone now) like a screenshot of Yahoo Mail or >>>something. We should be having better interface then web apps... >> >>It looks like Outlook. >> >>Whether or not Outlook's organisation is better, is this change >>because it is better or because switchers are complaining about how >>Mail looks? >> > >Yeah, might be the same marketing geniuses that wanted to have the >ObjC with C++ syntax... There are just so many things wrong with this assertion. Like the same people who care about the graphical interface of a widely used user level app will care about language syntax? Like C style languages are something marketing even is aware of the existence of? Like ObjC++ is about an alternate syntax, rather than mixing different object models? Cheers David From chris at growl.info Wed Oct 6 05:20:01 2004 From: chris at growl.info (Christopher Forsythe) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: <039EE35B-175F-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> <039EE35B-175F-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> Message-ID: <0BB9D9F8-1792-11D9-9E64-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> On Oct 6, 2004, at 1:14 AM, Izidor Jerebic wrote: > > On Oct 6, 2004, at 2:59 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > >> >> On 5 Oct 2004, at 23:07, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> >>> >>> On Oct 5, 2004, at 9:38 AM, Izidor Jerebic wrote: >>> >>>> First there was ugly metal, now we have 2-D cartoonish Windows >>>> XP-like theme >>> >>> I realize you're being sarcastic about the user-defined themes, but >>> are you serious about this? >>> >>> Where do you see cartoonish? The most significant change in this >>> screenshot is the lack of separation of the title bar. The icons are >>> all the same. In fact, they predate XP. >> >> I don't know what it is but the interface elements do smack of >> Longhorn rather than XP. Without seeing it all in context it's hard >> to imagine but that's the impression. >> >> I can't tell exactly but it looks like the rounded corners at the top >> of application windows are being deprecated. Sire, it looks more like >> the Pro apps now - whereas they are dark grey, these are lighter >> gradients....but then without context we can't see what the drop >> shadows look like...if thay are event present or if that's a "zoomed" >> screen. >> >> It's something about the way the window elements kinda flow into one >> another. I never realised how much I like drawers. >> > Yes, this is exactly the way I felt - there is lack of separation > between parts inside window. Everything is one big unit, and also > there is no window shadows on the screenshot. I use drawer in Mail and > it is obviously separated from the main two-part window, which is also > quite well separated inside. Isn't an always open drawer against the HIG? I haven't seen one screen shot of anyone's email without the drawer being open, and in 2 years of using mail, have closed the drawer maybe twice. *shrug* Chris From izidor.jerebic at siol.net Wed Oct 6 05:44:55 2004 From: izidor.jerebic at siol.net (Izidor Jerebic) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> <039EE35B-175F-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> <9B16E80C-1763-11D9-BC23-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <867B5563-1795-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> On Oct 6, 2004, at 11:26 AM, David Cake wrote: > At 9:04 AM +0200 6/10/04, Izidor Jerebic wrote: >> On Oct 6, 2004, at 8:47 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: >> >>> >>> On 6 Oct 2004, at 07:14, Izidor Jerebic wrote: >>> >>>> It is (or was, it is gone now) like a screenshot of Yahoo Mail or >>>> something. We should be having better interface then web apps... >>> >>> It looks like Outlook. >>> >>> Whether or not Outlook's organisation is better, is this change >>> because it is better or because switchers are complaining about how >>> Mail looks? >>> >> >> Yeah, might be the same marketing geniuses that wanted to have the >> ObjC with C++ syntax... > > There are just so many things wrong with this assertion. Hehe, people are really jumpy these days, must be the moon or weather or something... In case we are to get serious about this topic, lets see if I can explain this bout of creative writing to the world... > Like the same people who care about the graphical interface of a > widely used user level app will care about language syntax? Well, if they are incompetent in one area, I guess they can be incompetent in another, too. There are some incompetent people that get shuffled around, you know (everybody just wants to get rid of them once they get to know them). This was to allude to people who decide about things they know nothing about, and both decisions are approximately on the same level of stupidity, so you can assume that the same person could make them. So both decisions (we want to have ObjC more like C++, we want to have Mac more like Windows) share the same quality and therefore can be mentioned together. > Like C style languages are something marketing even is aware of the > existence of? I guess you do not remember the problems around the ObjC language and syntax some years ago. Somebody in the marketing decided that if not ObjC itself (this was on the plate too, you know), then surely its unfamiliar syntax is the main problem of application development and thus adoption of Mac platform.This bullshit was clearly marketing dictated, since there was no technical reason for a change and a lot of technical reasons against even thinking of such abomination. This idea did die, but not before it was showing its ugly head in documentation... > Like ObjC++ is about an alternate syntax, rather than mixing > different object models? There was no ObjC++ at those times. Are you so young or so old that you do not remember? izidor From das at doit.wisc.edu Wed Oct 6 07:35:10 2004 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: AT&T considers Mac OS X and Linux on the desktop Message-ID: AT&T has announced that it is looking into the possibility of moving their tens of thousands of desktop machines from Windows to Linux or Mac OS X Network services giant AT&T is evaluating different operating systems, including Linux and Mac OS X, as alternatives to Windows for internal use. "There's competition; there's choice now," Dickman said. "Any CIO would not be doing due diligence if they are not looking at their options now." http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/0,39020645,39169057,00.htm - Dave From shawnce at mac.com Wed Oct 6 08:12:07 2004 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: New Theme In-Reply-To: References: <09534F81-16ED-11D9-8678-000D93555FB0@siol.net> Message-ID: <167C49D2-17AA-11D9-B330-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Oct 5, 2004, at 5:59 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: > I can't tell exactly but it looks like the rounded corners at the top > of application windows are being deprecated. No they are still rounded but it is hard to see in the screen shots because of the close cropping, white background and image compression artifacts. Look closely at the upper corners. -Shawn From liliancng at mac.com Wed Oct 6 08:35:26 2004 From: liliancng at mac.com (Lilian Meijer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: Who knows... Message-ID: Hi List, Is there somebody (or someone who knows somebody) who has experience in setting up an Mac OS X Server while connected to the internet by the Hughes DirectWay 2Way Satellite system? We have run into some problems which we can't explain and really need some help. We tried our service provider but we are the only mac users and therefore they lack the right experience to help us, although they are willing. The situation has become that bad that except for email and a normal ping we can't use the internet so we can't search for answers and I was hoping someone here could be of any help. Thanks in advance, Lilian From pelorus at mac.com Wed Oct 6 08:37:31 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: AT&T considers Mac OS X and Linux on the desktop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6 Oct 2004, at 15:35, Dave Schroeder wrote: > Network services giant AT&T is evaluating different operating systems, > including Linux and Mac OS X, as alternatives to Windows for internal > use. Well, they'll go with a small Linux trial of which MS will buy the result of "utter failure". A friend of mine is planning to leave Nortel and was buoyed up by the thought of going to work for AT&T doing Mac stuff. From hEADcRASH at aGGROcULTURE.com Wed Oct 6 15:01:23 2004 From: hEADcRASH at aGGROcULTURE.com (Glenn Sugden) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:34 2005 Subject: The Sims 2... not available for the Mac?? Message-ID: <43546354-17E3-11D9-B555-000A959F7CDA@aGGROcULTURE.com> I think it's time for some serious petitioning... ::Glenn From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Wed Oct 6 15:53:47 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: The Sims 2... not available for the Mac?? In-Reply-To: <43546354-17E3-11D9-B555-000A959F7CDA@aGGROcULTURE.com> References: <43546354-17E3-11D9-B555-000A959F7CDA@aGGROcULTURE.com> Message-ID: <20041006225347.GI522@4321.tv> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 03:01:23PM -0700, Glenn Sugden wrote: > > > I think it's time for some serious petitioning... Are you saying EA will not provide it for the Mac or that Aspyr won't be porting it? -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From lomion at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 18:24:10 2004 From: lomion at gmail.com (Larry Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Who knows... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <285b60ef04100618247392913b@mail.gmail.com> What are the errors you are getting exactly? What happens when you try to browse the web for example. You say ping works, are you pinging an ip address or a name? On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 17:35:26 +0200, Lilian Meijer wrote: > Hi List, > > Is there somebody (or someone who knows somebody) who has experience > in setting up an Mac OS X Server while connected to the internet by > the Hughes DirectWay 2Way Satellite system? > > We have run into some problems which we can't explain and really need > some help. We tried our service provider but we are the only mac > users and therefore they lack the right experience to help us, > although they are willing. > > The situation has become that bad that except for email and a normal > ping we can't use the internet so we can't search for answers and I > was hoping someone here could be of any help. > > Thanks in advance, > > Lilian > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > -- "there are three things to cry for in life - things that are lost, things that are found, and things that are magnificent.~douglas coupland" ------------------------------------------------ lomion@gmail.com http://www.roadtobabylon.org http://www.citruspub.net ------------------------------------------------ From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Wed Oct 6 14:58:22 2004 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: "Battleship Portables" variation - Newton? Message-ID: (don't laugh too hard) Hi, Since the "Battleship Portables" thread is going along nicely talking about the possibilities of Apple sub-*notebooks*, I thought I might throw this out. What about the Newton? Yes, I said Newton. In case you hadn't noticed, the Newton can now do MP3 playback (file and TCPIP stream) - nowhere near as good as iPod (16 bit, 22KHz), but passable to my ears (medium-high FM radio quality - of course that's through the Newton's small 2W speaker or whatever it is - with line-out it might sound worse) It can do this while you do other things (non-blocking of the interface), as it's a separate codec, unlike the original player. The Newton can do WiFi. It can do ATA (including IBM Microdrive). It can surf the web relatively fast (it could be faster if there were more memory in the NS heap than 500KB). It can do webpage-hosting (with NPDS). That's what it can do *now*. There are a lot of possibilities that can be realized - we just need low-level programmers. MIDI playback, MIDI hardware control, FAT-32 card access for cameras or file transfer (compander or other OS extension to Paul Guyot's ATA support), really fast games (written entirely in C++, using the QD directly, or drawing directly to screen memory), OpenGL (well, basic OpenGL - C coding), SSL (C coding), VPN (needs a p-class to hook onto existing NIE), IPsec (p-class). USB (needs either a 16-bit PCMCIA card and a p-class, or custom hardware). Real Java support (either a heck of a lot of reverse engineering TInterpreter, or an army of lawyers to deal with certain NDAs). And there is now finally a Newton emulator - Einstein, recently demoed at the first annual Worldwide Newton Association conference. Paul has apparently gotten the OS to recognize 8MB already (twice as much as in the last MessagePad). Certainly more memory could be stuffed in, but a new garbage collector would most likely have to be written, which would mean reverse-engineering large parts of the TObjectHeap class (or an army of lawyers). Larger, color screens may or may not be possible - it depends on what the TScreenDriver and TTabletDriver architectures and QuickDdraw can do. Or graphics and low-level pen-input could be "pulled up" to the host-OS layer above the emulator. There are a few things that can't easily be done. One is real multithreading of the Newtonscript programming environment. This would need two TInterpreter classes running simultaneously, an arbitration layer so that they could both access the QuickDraw (of course, if the graphics are pulled up to the host-OS..), and changes to a number of other classes (TSotre and TPackageStore for data access, the memory management classes for synchronization and locking issues relating to variables, changes the the garbage collector to account for multiple threads, etc). And of course, the Newton arguably has data integration and task/application integration better than almost any other PDA currently on the market. This all arguably flows from the free-form object-based, data-soup architecture, which nothing else out there to my knowledge really has. And it has real handwriting recognition (Rosetta is quite good) as opposed to Graffiti, or a keyboard so small you almost need a toothpick, or learn new ways to type (like the new "predictive typing" one). More recognizers could be addeded once the TRecognizer class is reverse-engineered (or see point on army of lawyers..). And it's big enough that you can actually *write* on it (I myself want a NewtonSlate - size of a legal pad, LCD or preferably eInk-based reflected-light display, PCMCIA or CompactFlash slots, less than 3 pounds... In my opinion, one of the largest assets of the Newton is it's programming language. It is simple, is well-suited for very rapid-application development, yet powerful. (All the above mentioned software has been written in it, with the exception of the MP3 player, parts of NPDS, ATA Support, and the Internet access communications layer. If Java were added as a language (at the TInterpreter level, not the hacked-together Waba interpreter we have now), even more possibilities open up. I believe that S. Jobs said, when he announced cancelation of the Newton (much to the dismay of many companies that had bet on building vertical applications based on it), that Apple would return to the PDA sometime in 1999 or 2000. That never happened. Maybe it's time to take a second look at the revolution Apple arguably started? Comments welcome. Comments from IP lawyers dealing with "abandonware" cases (*do* they even exist) even more welcome. Jim Witte Newtontalk.net "Newton never dies.. it just gets new hardware - or emulators." From scott at maxify.com Wed Oct 6 21:45:34 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: AirPort card for early 2001 iBook Message-ID: Google turns up a bunch of results for stores that sell it, but no idea which one to choose. Any recommendations? Thanks, - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From larkost at softhome.net Wed Oct 6 21:17:11 2004 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: The Sims 2... not available for the Mac?? In-Reply-To: <43546354-17E3-11D9-B555-000A959F7CDA@aGGROcULTURE.com> References: <43546354-17E3-11D9-B555-000A959F7CDA@aGGROcULTURE.com> Message-ID: I did some quick googling, and it looks like there is a quote from the developer of the game that they are going to do a port to the Mac, but that they have not officially announced it yet. So you can bet it will not be out for at least 3 months, probably longer than that (I would guess less than a year). Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net On Oct 6, 2004, at 6:01 PM, Glenn Sugden wrote: > > > I think it's time for some serious petitioning... From pelorus at mac.com Wed Oct 6 22:31:37 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: AirPort card for early 2001 iBook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2876AAD0-1822-11D9-8C72-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 7 Oct 2004, at 05:45, Scott Stevenson wrote: > Google turns up a bunch of results for stores that sell it, but no > idea which one to choose. Any recommendations? Hens teeth at the moment. What's the criteria of the question? From scott at maxify.com Wed Oct 6 22:41:46 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: AirPort card for early 2001 iBook In-Reply-To: <2876AAD0-1822-11D9-8C72-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <2876AAD0-1822-11D9-8C72-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <937D338E-1823-11D9-A907-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 6, 2004, at 10:31 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: >> Google turns up a bunch of results for stores that sell it, but no >> idea which one to choose. Any recommendations? > > Hens teeth at the moment. What's the criteria of the question? Which place would you trust to send you a good product? Also quite important is if anyone has seen a particularly good price on this item. What I probably should have clarified is that Apple discontinued stocking of non-Extreme AirPort cards, which is why I post this at all. I'm curious what third-party reseller people would recommend that sells this kind of thing. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From jearle at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 01:10:46 2004 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: AirPort card for early 2001 iBook In-Reply-To: <937D338E-1823-11D9-A907-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <2876AAD0-1822-11D9-8C72-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <937D338E-1823-11D9-A907-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <5bbc0cd6041007011051c2cfff@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:41:46 -0700, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Oct 6, 2004, at 10:31 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: > > >> Google turns up a bunch of results for stores that sell it, but no > >> idea which one to choose. Any recommendations? > > > > Hens teeth at the moment. What's the criteria of the question? > > Which place would you trust to send you a good product? Also quite > important is if anyone has seen a particularly good price on this item. > > What I probably should have clarified is that Apple discontinued > stocking of non-Extreme AirPort cards, which is why I post this at all. > I'm curious what third-party reseller people would recommend that sells > this kind of thing. I saw some on the shelves of my local Fnac. They sold for about the same as the Extreme (woah! dude! gnarly! Come on, I can't be the only one bugged by the E word ...) ones. They may be gone now, though. -- Jared Earle :: http://www.23x.net jearle@gmail.com :: There is no SPORK From liliancng at mac.com Thu Oct 7 05:20:06 2004 From: liliancng at mac.com (Lilian Meijer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Who knows... In-Reply-To: <285b60ef04100618247392913b@mail.gmail.com> References: <285b60ef04100618247392913b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The errors we are getting differ on the server and the client machines. It starts with receiving 404 errors on the client machines when a client tries to browse the web, but only to certain pages (like www.apple.com) while others pages loads normally. When to many 404 appear it turns into the "congratulations you installed apache correctly" page. After which it's almost impossible for a client machine to browse the web at all. On the server when you try to view a page either you don't get any images or it just simply says that you don't have a connection to the internet. Software update does see that there is an update for something but when you hit the install button I get an error 404 and it says I should check my internet connection. The only thing that does seem to function most of the time is email, although sending sometimes gives an error (like: SMTP server says "554 Service unavailable; Client host blocked using spam.dnsrbl.net" or "SMTP server says "554 Service unavailable; Client host blocked using blackhole.sercuritysage.com" ) but the next moment the message is sent. The strangest thing about this all is that one moment you don't get anywhere and the next is appears like there is nothing wrong accept for a slow connection. The pings we tried were both on name and ip address, in and outside our network. When we look at the server logs it shows that slowly our dns starts to malfunction, it can't find our ldap or password service and every thing turns into a downward spiral, completely screwing up our entire network. We have had this before, same problems but no answers except for an complete fresh install of the server. If we only knew what caused it, then we might be able to prevent it a next time. The only indication we have that might has something to do with it is that problems started after we installed something that has to do with the internet. One time it was the iBlog application and this time it was the installation of the latest security update from apple on the server. This and maybe some bad wether but that shouldn't mess things up that bad. >What are the errors you are getting exactly? What happens when you >try to browse the web for example. > >You say ping works, are you pinging an ip address or a name? > From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Thu Oct 7 07:52:59 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: AirPort card for early 2001 iBook In-Reply-To: <937D338E-1823-11D9-A907-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <2876AAD0-1822-11D9-8C72-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <937D338E-1823-11D9-A907-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <20041007145259.GE539@4321.tv> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 10:41:46PM -0700, Scott Stevenson wrote: > >>Google turns up a bunch of results for stores that sell it, but no > >>idea which one to choose. Any recommendations? > > > >Hens teeth at the moment. What's the criteria of the question? > > Which place would you trust to send you a good product? Also > quite important is if anyone has seen a particularly good price > on this item. > > What I probably should have clarified is that Apple > discontinued stocking of non-Extreme AirPort cards, which is > why I post this at all. I'm curious what third-party reseller > people would recommend that sells this kind of thing. http://www.smalldog.com/product/12653658 Never done business w/ them, but I've read they have a good reputation. -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From pelorus at mac.com Thu Oct 7 08:31:19 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: adminning cups Message-ID: Anyone noticed that CUPS now requires a username and password for access to the administration. Hmmm...what's going on... M From das at doit.wisc.edu Thu Oct 7 09:19:59 2004 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: adminning cups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is actually old, and can be disabled by commenting out: #Encryption Required # #AuthType Basic #AuthClass System # in /etc/cups/cupsd.conf ...and restarting, or doing sudo killall -HUP cupsd That will remove authentication again (which is fine, since cups only allows you to connect from localhost). Here's another method to make it prompt for auth with your normal admin credentials: - Dave On Oct 7, 2004, at 10:31 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > Anyone noticed that CUPS now requires a username and password for > access to the administration. > > Hmmm...what's going on... > > M > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Oct 7 09:05:12 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: AirPort card for early 2001 iBook In-Reply-To: <20041007145259.GE539@4321.tv> References: <2876AAD0-1822-11D9-8C72-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <937D338E-1823-11D9-A907-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <20041007145259.GE539@4321.tv> Message-ID: at 2004-10-07, 9:52 AM -0500, they whom i call Brian Medley wrote: >http://www.smalldog.com/product/12653658 > >Never done business w/ them, but I've read they have a good >reputation. i have done business with SmallDog for years, and recommend them to anyone who wants an online retailer with excellent, personal service.. prices are sometimes slightly higher, but not outrageous.. i particularly favor them for their strong effort at social responsibility as for the airport card, they are getting bid up a bit too much on eBay, but can be scrounged for less in local used markets, especially in bundles.. for instance i just got an iMac 600 with an airport card, an iSight and a DrBott ExtendAir Direct for $200 -- steve harley From gkreme at gmail.com Thu Oct 7 09:31:59 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: New iMac G5 impressions In-Reply-To: <4B09DFEC3D1296694F5D91ED@172.18.1.153> References: <4B09DFEC3D1296694F5D91ED@172.18.1.153> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 06:52:27 -0700, Kevin van Haaren wrote: > --On Tuesday, October 5, 2004 7:08 AM -0700 Alan Forkosh > wrote: > > Maybe because the sizes are 17" and 20". :-) > > Oh lord now I feel stupid. Maybe should revise my comments to "the huge > margins make the 17" monitor feel like a 15" and a 20" like a 17" 8-) Oh sure, nice try. Sorry, nothing can save you now! I dunno... the 17" seemed all right to me. Not nearly as nice as the 20", true. But then, that's the point. right? -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From rogerhoward at mac.com Thu Oct 7 10:11:20 2004 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: AirPort card for early 2001 iBook In-Reply-To: References: <2876AAD0-1822-11D9-8C72-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <937D338E-1823-11D9-A907-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <20041007145259.GE539@4321.tv> Message-ID: On Oct 7, 2004, at 9:05 AM, steve harley wrote: > at 2004-10-07, 9:52 AM -0500, they whom i call Brian Medley wrote: >> http://www.smalldog.com/product/12653658 >> >> Never done business w/ them, but I've read they have a good >> reputation. > > i have done business with SmallDog for years, and recommend > them to anyone who wants an online retailer with excellent, > personal service.. prices are sometimes slightly higher, but > not outrageous.. i particularly favor them for their strong > effort at social responsibility Yes, yes and yes. We've bought several machines from Small Dog over the years - customer service has been about the best I've had with an online catalog, the prices when I've used them have been quite competitive (twice they've managed to get me systems that weren't in stock anywhere but locally, where I'd be hit with much higher prices AND sales tax)... and yes, the social responsibility aspect is encouraging. They're a good company that has always been helpful and friendly to me and Julia. > as for the airport card, they are getting bid up a bit too > much on eBay, but can be scrounged for less in local used > markets, especially in bundles.. for instance i just got an > iMac 600 with an airport card, an iSight and a DrBott > ExtendAir Direct for $200 $200? Wow From helge.hess at skyrix.com Thu Oct 7 10:20:29 2004 From: helge.hess at skyrix.com (Helge Hess) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Airport Express Ethernet routing Message-ID: <2FDCED85-1885-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> Hi there, I'm currently using Airport Express to connect a DSL provider using PPPoE. Sharing that connection over WLAN works just fine, but is there some trick to share the same connection to clients connected by Ethernet? Apparently this is a limitation of AE, but maybe there is a workaround/hack available? ;-) Greets, Helge -- http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org From pelorus at mac.com Thu Oct 7 10:43:46 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Airport Express Ethernet routing In-Reply-To: <2FDCED85-1885-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> References: <2FDCED85-1885-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> Message-ID: <70A2F0CF-1888-11D9-8040-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 7 Oct 2004, at 18:20, Helge Hess wrote: > Hi there, > > I'm currently using Airport Express to connect a DSL provider using > PPPoE. Sharing that connection over WLAN works just fine, but is there > some trick to share the same connection to clients connected by > Ethernet? > > Apparently this is a limitation of AE, but maybe there is a > workaround/hack available? ;-) It only has one ethernet port. And doesn't support multi-netting. Airport Extreme is designed for this. From das at doit.wisc.edu Thu Oct 7 13:18:19 2004 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Digital hub? Message-ID: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> So, Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 is here. But the big difference is that it's available to install on any PC by any OEM, and is also available as a commercial, retail product, standalone, for anyone who wants it. A real, supported product that a normal person can actually install, unlike Freevo or MythTV. Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 is really an application suite running on top of Windows XP (albeit with hooks into the OS). It has PVR functions, software to manage music, photos, and video, the ability to burn CDs and DVDs, etc. Third parties like Elgato aside, I think Apple has really, really missed the boat on this one. It's funny, too, because all of the connectivity and interoperability between other digital hub devices - cameras, camcorders, scanners, printers, PDAs, phones, CDs, DVDs, etc - is second to none. Everything you want to interact with - except, of course, the biggest "digital hub" device of all: TV. Why? I don't want any BS arguments about how "when you use a computer you want to turn you mind on; when you watch TV you want to turn your mind off." Why is the company that STARTED TV <-> computer interoperability completely absent from what analysts believe will be a huge market? Now, I'm not saying analysts are always right, and I'm not necessarily saying people will want to have a freaking PC in their entertainment rack. But people WILL want more and more interplay between "TV" and "TV-type" functions and content, and their computers and other personal entertainment devices, period. If AirPort Express had any video capabilities, I might be able to see where Apple was going. Or maybe if there was the rumored "video dock" for the iPod. Or some other kind of entertainment center or AV component. *Something* that would allow a tie-in to TV. With Jobs' repeated statements clearly opposed to this type of interconnectivity, I'm afraid Apple is really hurting itself. Apple could have pulled something off like the Netflix/TiVo deal... Maybe Steve has more vision than everyone else here, and maybe everyone else will fail miserably. The whole HD/DTV/US/Europe/digital cable/satellite/etc market is really murky, granted, and it would be stupid to introduce a product based on tuners that would be useless in 18 months. But they've got to do something here, because this market is going to be HUGE. Thoughts? - Dave http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/mediacenter/ http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp? id=xpmce2005&page=1&cookie%5Ftest=1 http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20041006-4276.html From riggs at hawaii.edu Thu Oct 7 16:56:10 2004 From: riggs at hawaii.edu (H.R. Riggs) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: user files In-Reply-To: <200407241901.i6OJ0ws5023421@slowbro.omnigroup.com> References: <200407241901.i6OJ0ws5023421@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <20041007235610.30757@mail.hawaii.edu> I'm sure these questions have been asked a ton of times, but here goes. 1. After I delete a user, I can't delete the user's folder in Users. Why not? And how can I? 2. What is the best way to transfer all users's files over from an old G3 to a new iMac? Unfortunately, the old G3 doesn't support Apple's new nifty transfer setup. TIA. Ron From helge.hess at skyrix.com Thu Oct 7 17:04:07 2004 From: helge.hess at skyrix.com (Helge Hess) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Airport Express Ethernet routing In-Reply-To: <70A2F0CF-1888-11D9-8040-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <2FDCED85-1885-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <70A2F0CF-1888-11D9-8040-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <92F5E75D-18BD-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> On Oct 7, 2004, at 19:43, Matt Johnston wrote: > It only has one ethernet port. ? This hasn't anything to do with how many Ethernet ports the base station has. You can perfectly run PPPoE _and_ the internal Ethernet over one Ethernet connection (which was exactly what I did before with my iMac and Ethernet sharing of the PPPoE connection running on the same interface, I would like to replace that config with AE). > And doesn't support multi-netting. I'm not sure what you mean by "multi-netting". AE _does_ masquerading (aka "Internet Sharing") and there should be no (technical) reason why it can't do that for Ethernet. > Airport Extreme is designed for this. s/designed for/restricted to/g As far as I can see AE contains everything required for supporting the requested functionality. Which is why I wonder whether there is some kind of hack to get that working :-) Greets, Helge -- http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org From sanguish at digifix.com Thu Oct 7 17:19:06 2004 From: sanguish at digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: AirPort card for early 2001 iBook In-Reply-To: <5bbc0cd6041007011051c2cfff@mail.gmail.com> References: <2876AAD0-1822-11D9-8C72-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <937D338E-1823-11D9-A907-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <5bbc0cd6041007011051c2cfff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Oct 7, 2004, at 4:10 AM, Jared Earle wrote: > On > I saw some on the shelves of my local Fnac. They sold for about the > same as the Extreme (woah! dude! gnarly! Come on, I can't be the only > one bugged by the E word ...) ones. They may be gone now, though. On Oct 7, 2004, at 4:10 AM, Jared Earle wrote: On I saw some on the shelves of my local Fnac. They sold for about the same as the Extreme (woah! dude! gnarly! Come on, I can't be the only one bugged by the E word ...) ones. They may be gone now, though. ??? the only think bad about Airport Extreme is that it's not Airport Xtreme!! From seiryu at comcast.net Thu Oct 7 19:19:34 2004 From: seiryu at comcast.net (Nick Zitzmann) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: user files In-Reply-To: <20041007235610.30757@mail.hawaii.edu> References: <200407241901.i6OJ0ws5023421@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <20041007235610.30757@mail.hawaii.edu> Message-ID: <7EF85EEC-18D0-11D9-9EEB-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> On Oct 7, 2004, at 5:56 PM, H.R. Riggs wrote: > 1. After I delete a user, I can't delete the user's folder in Users. > Why > not? And how can I? Which version of the OS are you using? In previous versions of OS X, when you deleted a user, then the user's files became the property of root. But Apple changed this in 10.3.x, and gave users the option to either move the user's files to a disk image, or delete them immediately. Anyway, if you're using OS X 10.2.8 or earlier, the only built-in way to delete an abandoned user's home directory is to run "sudo rm -rf" on the user's directory as an administrator. > 2. What is the best way to transfer all users's files over from an old > G3 > to a new iMac? Unfortunately, the old G3 doesn't support Apple's new > nifty transfer setup. I would suggest using either hdiutil or Disk Copy/Utility to copy the user's folder (or disk, etc.) into a disk image. Then you can either use the network, or use some sort of removable drive (like a pocket drive or iPod) to move the disk image. Nick Zitzmann S/MIME signature available upon request "Can we win [the war on terror]? I don't think you can win it." - George W. Bush (August 30, 2004) From andrew.brown at c18.net Thu Oct 7 22:35:39 2004 From: andrew.brown at c18.net (Andrew Brown) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Deep sleep In-Reply-To: <7EF85EEC-18D0-11D9-9EEB-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> References: <200407241901.i6OJ0ws5023421@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <20041007235610.30757@mail.hawaii.edu> <7EF85EEC-18D0-11D9-9EEB-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> Message-ID: My PB G4 moves between home (airport) and office (ethernet) and hates to wake up at either place. Does anyone have tips on how to keep the thing running? Or how to stop sleep turning into coma? AB From joar at joar.com Thu Oct 7 22:59:36 2004 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Deep sleep In-Reply-To: References: <200407241901.i6OJ0ws5023421@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <20041007235610.30757@mail.hawaii.edu> <7EF85EEC-18D0-11D9-9EEB-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3BB4B662-18EF-11D9-BDFC-000393D4AB70@joar.com> What system version are you using, and do you keep any mounted servers still mounted when you put the computer to sleep? j o a r On 2004-10-08, at 07.35, Andrew Brown wrote: > My PB G4 moves between home (airport) and office (ethernet) and hates > to wake up at either place. Does anyone have tips on how to keep the > thing running? Or how to stop sleep turning into coma? From andrew.brown at c18.net Thu Oct 7 23:08:30 2004 From: andrew.brown at c18.net (Andrew Brown) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Deep sleep In-Reply-To: <3BB4B662-18EF-11D9-BDFC-000393D4AB70@joar.com> References: <200407241901.i6OJ0ws5023421@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <20041007235610.30757@mail.hawaii.edu> <7EF85EEC-18D0-11D9-9EEB-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> <3BB4B662-18EF-11D9-BDFC-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: <7A681140-18F0-11D9-B7C7-000A95D99D3C@c18.net> Le 8 oct. 04, ? 07:59, j o a r a ?crit : > What system version are you using, and do you keep any mounted servers > still mounted when you put the computer to sleep? Latest everything, and no, except occasionally by accident. (Why is this list set reply to sender? crazy...) AB From joar at joar.com Thu Oct 7 23:20:28 2004 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Deep sleep In-Reply-To: <7A681140-18F0-11D9-B7C7-000A95D99D3C@c18.net> References: <200407241901.i6OJ0ws5023421@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <20041007235610.30757@mail.hawaii.edu> <7EF85EEC-18D0-11D9-9EEB-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> <3BB4B662-18EF-11D9-BDFC-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <7A681140-18F0-11D9-B7C7-000A95D99D3C@c18.net> Message-ID: <260D6550-18F2-11D9-BDFC-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Does this happen every time you try to wake from sleep, or only sometimes or most of the time? What are the exact symptoms? What have you done to try to troubleshoot / fix it so far? Are you currently using any workarounds? What software are running when you put the computer to sleep? Are you using any third party software or hardware, in particular are you using any kernel extensions or custom system modifications? How did you install your system software, as an upgrade from an earlier version, or as a clean install? When did you last run diagnostic tools on your hardware and or HD directory structures? j o a r On 2004-10-08, at 08.08, Andrew Brown wrote: >> What system version are you using, and do you keep any mounted >> servers still mounted when you put the computer to sleep? > > Latest everything, and no, except occasionally by accident. From pelorus at mac.com Thu Oct 7 23:22:37 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Airport Express Ethernet routing In-Reply-To: <92F5E75D-18BD-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> References: <2FDCED85-1885-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <70A2F0CF-1888-11D9-8040-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <92F5E75D-18BD-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> Message-ID: <72F47938-18F2-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 8 Oct 2004, at 01:04, Helge Hess wrote: > On Oct 7, 2004, at 19:43, Matt Johnston wrote: >> It only has one ethernet port. > > ? This hasn't anything to do with how many Ethernet ports the base > station has. You can perfectly run PPPoE _and_ the internal Ethernet > over one Ethernet connection (which was exactly what I did before with > my iMac and Ethernet sharing of the PPPoE connection running on the > same interface, I would like to replace that config with AE). Ok, pal, look. I'm well aware of what's possible with ethernet and IP. Airport access point devices have one IP per interface. Get used to it. >> And doesn't support multi-netting. > > I'm not sure what you mean by "multi-netting". AE _does_ masquerading > (aka "Internet Sharing") and there should be no (technical) reason why > it can't do that for Ethernet. There's a technical reason for it. I doesn't support it. Get used to it. >> Airport Extreme is designed for this. > > s/designed for/restricted to/g Well, that's semantics. > As far as I can see AE contains everything required for supporting the > requested functionality. Which is why I wonder whether there is some > kind of hack to get that working :-) Well, write your own sodding OS for your AE access point. M From scott at maxify.com Fri Oct 8 00:21:47 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Deep sleep In-Reply-To: References: <200407241901.i6OJ0ws5023421@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <20041007235610.30757@mail.hawaii.edu> <7EF85EEC-18D0-11D9-9EEB-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Oct 7, 2004, at 10:35 PM, Andrew Brown wrote: > My PB G4 moves between home (airport) and office (ethernet) and hates > to wake up at either place. Does anyone have tips on how to keep the > thing running? Or how to stop sleep turning into coma? I had something like this happen on my desktop machine and it turned out that the Blueooth daemon was hanging. If you have Bluetooth enabled, try disabling it and see if it continues. Otherwise, take a look at joar's most recent post. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From scott at maxify.com Fri Oct 8 00:31:39 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Digital hub? In-Reply-To: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> References: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <17B4E268-18FC-11D9-9CD1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 7, 2004, at 1:18 PM, Dave Schroeder wrote: > Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 is really an application suite > running on top of Windows XP (albeit with hooks into the OS). It has > PVR functions, software to manage music, photos, and video, the > ability to burn CDs and DVDs, etc. It's hard for me to even figure out what this thing does that's special. This page isn't much help. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/mediacenter/evaluation/top10.mspx What's the non-buzzword version? - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From pelorus at mac.com Fri Oct 8 00:47:11 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Digital hub? In-Reply-To: <17B4E268-18FC-11D9-9CD1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> <17B4E268-18FC-11D9-9CD1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <4323DC22-18FE-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 8 Oct 2004, at 08:31, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Oct 7, 2004, at 1:18 PM, Dave Schroeder wrote: > >> Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 is really an application suite >> running on top of Windows XP (albeit with hooks into the OS). It has >> PVR functions, software to manage music, photos, and video, the >> ability to burn CDs and DVDs, etc. > > It's hard for me to even figure out what this thing does that's > special. While I don't like to jump on the bandwagon with this....I do wish there was more choice on the Mac in this regard. Not looking for Apple to do it, but enterprising third parties. That said - there simply must not be the market for it. As for the individual points. It's essentially pairing a PVR with iTunes and iPhoto and calling it innovation. This one makes me laugh: "Work and play at the same time Now you can watch a baseball game, movie, or video while performing other tasks on your PC. Simply resize the Media Center window to view your program or movie while simultaneously working, e-mailing, or surfing the Web. If you are interrupted while watching TV, just click to mute the volume and automatically display closed captions that stream along the bottom of the window." Now THAT's innovation. From scott at maxify.com Fri Oct 8 00:50:50 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Digital hub? In-Reply-To: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> References: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: On Oct 7, 2004, at 1:18 PM, Dave Schroeder wrote: > Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 is really an application suite > running on top of Windows XP (albeit with hooks into the OS). It has > PVR functions, software to manage music, photos, and video, the > ability to burn CDs and DVDs, etc. Okay, so I went back and looked at all four videos and did their little flash demo. From what I saw, it looks like the driving force behind this is Microsoft is afraid Tivo is getting too much control in this arena. Almost all of this stuff is already present in Tivo and works with Mac OS X: http://www.tivo.com/4.9.asp Am I missing something? Other than the fact that it's on a TV, this stuff pales in comparison to iLife + Tivo. Do you just want Apple to re-brand Tivo or something? Regardless of how useful it is, the media center stuff doesn't really need to be new in any significant way. It looks like they cloned Tivo. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From scott at maxify.com Fri Oct 8 00:53:10 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Digital hub? In-Reply-To: <4323DC22-18FE-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> <17B4E268-18FC-11D9-9CD1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <4323DC22-18FE-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <195A0B10-18FF-11D9-9CD1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 8, 2004, at 12:47 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > "Work and play at the same time > > Now you can watch a baseball game, movie, or video while performing > other tasks on your PC. Simply resize the Media Center window to view > your program or movie while simultaneously working, e-mailing, or > surfing the Web. If you are interrupted while watching TV, just click > to mute the volume and automatically display closed captions that > stream along the bottom of the window." > > Now THAT's innovation. Yeah, this obviously isn't new. It's generally easier to just have a separate TV (even a tiny one). - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From pelorus at mac.com Fri Oct 8 02:22:04 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Digital hub? In-Reply-To: <195A0B10-18FF-11D9-9CD1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> <17B4E268-18FC-11D9-9CD1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <4323DC22-18FE-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <195A0B10-18FF-11D9-9CD1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <84D4DE72-190B-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 8 Oct 2004, at 08:53, Scott Stevenson wrote: > On Oct 8, 2004, at 12:47 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > >> "Work and play at the same time >> >> Now you can watch a baseball game, movie, or video while performing >> other tasks on your PC. Simply resize the Media Center window > > Yeah, this obviously isn't new. It's generally easier to just have a > separate TV (even a tiny one). Well, even better I reckon is to have a floating translucent window...or even better...a Terminal.....uhuhuhuhuhu From pelorus at mac.com Fri Oct 8 02:53:36 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Ultra High Capacity Backup Message-ID: When working with huge DV files - how do people back them up? Do you just split a 90GB file across 3 AIT tapes? AIT3 is just about the capacity we're looking for but doesn't leave ay room for growth. Anyone using a AIT4 tape deck with Mac OS X? From helge.hess at skyrix.com Fri Oct 8 04:43:35 2004 From: helge.hess at skyrix.com (Helge Hess) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Airport Express Ethernet routing In-Reply-To: <72F47938-18F2-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <2FDCED85-1885-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <70A2F0CF-1888-11D9-8040-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <92F5E75D-18BD-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <72F47938-18F2-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <49A02A41-191F-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> On Oct 8, 2004, at 8:22, Matt Johnston wrote: >>> Airport Extreme is designed for this. >> s/designed for/restricted to/g > Well, that's semantics. Certainly not. Another good example is multiscreen support on iBooks, it isn't officially supported and disabled by Apple, but can be enabled using hacks and works just fine that way - because both, the hardware and the software are designed for that. But we don't need to discuss that to death, I was less interested in a discussion and more in fruitful suggestions ;-) >> As far as I can see AE contains everything required for supporting >> the requested functionality. Which is why I wonder whether there is >> some kind of hack to get that working :-) > Well, write your own sodding OS for your AE access point. Nope, since the AE OS already supports masquerading I'm just looking for a hack which enables that for Ethernet. If you don't know one, why respond? ;-) BTW: out of interest, is there some documentation on the nature of the OS running on an AE access point? Greets, Helge -- http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org From bchin at mdimension.com Fri Oct 8 05:13:03 2004 From: bchin at mdimension.com (Bill Chin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Ultra High Capacity Backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <677A0378-1923-11D9-AA44-000A95C31478@mdimension.com> On Oct 8, 2004, at 5:53 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > When working with huge DV files - how do people back them up? Do you > just split a 90GB file across 3 AIT tapes? AIT3 is just about the > capacity we're looking for but doesn't leave ay room for growth. > Anyone using a AIT4 tape deck with Mac OS X? We use LTO-1 right now... that's 100GB uncompressed on each tape. We're using Tolis Group BRU connected to a Qlogic 5200 FC switch with an ADIC FCR 250 SCSI-FC bridge connected to a IBM 3581 autoloader (rebadged ADIC). The latest generation, LTO-2, handles 200GB uncompressed on each tape. ..Bill Chin Managing Director, m Dimension Technology From pelorus at mac.com Fri Oct 8 05:14:06 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Airport Express Ethernet routing In-Reply-To: <49A02A41-191F-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> References: <2FDCED85-1885-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <70A2F0CF-1888-11D9-8040-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <92F5E75D-18BD-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <72F47938-18F2-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <49A02A41-191F-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> Message-ID: <8D32ECC2-1923-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 8 Oct 2004, at 12:43, Helge Hess wrote: > Nope, since the AE OS already supports masquerading I'm just looking > for a hack which enables that for Ethernet. It doesn't strictly support masquerading. It supports routing. Where do you see masquerading? > If you don't know one, why respond? ;-) Because you asked if it's possible. It's not. Move on. From joar at joar.com Fri Oct 8 05:31:42 2004 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Ultra High Capacity Backup In-Reply-To: <677A0378-1923-11D9-AA44-000A95C31478@mdimension.com> References: <677A0378-1923-11D9-AA44-000A95C31478@mdimension.com> Message-ID: <028D931C-1926-11D9-9BB6-000A95A6F8C0@joar.com> On 2004-10-08, at 14.13, Bill Chin wrote: > We use LTO-1 right now... that's 100GB uncompressed on each tape. > We're using Tolis Group BRU connected to a Qlogic 5200 FC switch with > an ADIC FCR 250 SCSI-FC bridge connected to a IBM 3581 autoloader > (rebadged ADIC). The latest generation, LTO-2, handles 200GB > uncompressed on each tape. I've been looking at BRU, but not yet committed to trying / buying it. What's your impression on BRU wrt. compatibility, reliability, features, usability, et.c.? j o a r From bchin at mdimension.com Fri Oct 8 05:38:41 2004 From: bchin at mdimension.com (Bill Chin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Ultra High Capacity Backup In-Reply-To: <028D931C-1926-11D9-9BB6-000A95A6F8C0@joar.com> References: <677A0378-1923-11D9-AA44-000A95C31478@mdimension.com> <028D931C-1926-11D9-9BB6-000A95A6F8C0@joar.com> Message-ID: On Oct 8, 2004, at 8:31 AM, j o a r wrote: > > I've been looking at BRU, but not yet committed to trying / buying it. > What's your impression on BRU wrt. compatibility, reliability, > features, usability, et.c.? We are a bit mixed about it right now... it does work. The interface is clunky. I'd rather wait until Tolis Group ships version 1.1 and then give a review, as it is right around the corner (open beta any day now). Also, the state of workgroup/enterprise backup of and on Mac OS X is going to change a lot in the coming months. I'm hoping to evaluate Bakbone's NetVault among others soon. Therefore, any purchase decision unless absolutely dire should wait a little bit. ..Bill Chin From winter at mac.com Fri Oct 8 06:06:03 2004 From: winter at mac.com (Michael Winter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Digital hub? In-Reply-To: <4323DC22-18FE-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> <17B4E268-18FC-11D9-9CD1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <4323DC22-18FE-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Oct 8, 2004, at 2:47 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > Now THAT's innovation. I guess I'm just old-fashioned (or just old). I'm still stuck in the old way of turning on the TV or stereo while working on the computer. Of course it would have been nice for the dorm room back in my college days. Of course back then you had to futz with funny things called "rabbit ears" sticking from the top of the TV, and you had to go to the computer lab and use things called "terminals" to do any computing. -Mike From jpb at ApesSeekingKnowledge.net Fri Oct 8 06:24:33 2004 From: jpb at ApesSeekingKnowledge.net (Joe Block) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Digital hub? In-Reply-To: <195A0B10-18FF-11D9-9CD1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> <17B4E268-18FC-11D9-9CD1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <4323DC22-18FE-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <195A0B10-18FF-11D9-9CD1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <658FC6EC-192D-11D9-8A9B-000393102F9E@ApesSeekingKnowledge.net> On Oct 8, 2004, at 3:53 AM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Oct 8, 2004, at 12:47 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > >> "Work and play at the same time >> >> Now you can watch a baseball game, movie, or video while performing >> other tasks on your PC. Simply resize the Media Center window to view >> your program or movie while simultaneously working, e-mailing, or >> surfing the Web. If you are interrupted while watching TV, just click >> to mute the volume and automatically display closed captions that >> stream along the bottom of the window." >> >> Now THAT's innovation. > > Yeah, this obviously isn't new. It's generally easier to just have a > separate TV (even a tiny one). Who wants to waste screen space on a tv picture - I keep a 13" TV on my desk at home (driven by TiVo, naturally) so I can watch movies or whatever while I'm working. jpb -- Joe Block Jane - Daria? Come on, the neighbors are starting to talk. Daria - Um... good. Soon they'll progress to cave drawings and civilization will be on its way. From das at doit.wisc.edu Fri Oct 8 07:57:26 2004 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Digital hub? In-Reply-To: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> References: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <5E252150-193A-11D9-B8DC-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> On Oct 7, 2004, at 3:18 PM, Dave Schroeder wrote: > If AirPort Express had any video capabilities, I might be able to see > where Apple was going. Or maybe if there was the rumored "video dock" > for the iPod. Or some other kind of entertainment center or AV > component. *Something* that would allow a tie-in to TV. Hmm: http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0410photoipod.html > EXCLUSIVE: 60GB iPod to pack photo-viewing features > > By Ryan Katz, Senior Editor > > October 8, 2004 - After three years of being synonymous with "digital > music player," Apple's iPod will widen its horizons and gain > photo-viewing capabilities within the next 30 to 60 days, highly > reliable sources tell Think Secret. > > The new iPod, which will sit at the top of Apple's fourth-generation > line-up, will pack Toshiba's new 60GB 1.8-inch hard drive, a 2-inch > color liquid crystal display, iPhoto synchronization, audio/video-out > capabilities, and will sell for $499. I can't think of a time in recent memory when Think Secret has been significantly wrong about something like this. Imagine downloading video content on your Mac, syncing it to your iPod, dropping your iPod in its dock at your entertainment center, and then browsing through the available content on your iPod. If there's going to be an interface for viewing photos on an external video device, then they've already built the methods for navigating menus and displaying an interface externally...doing a video implementation - as long as the device and/or dock could handle playback/decoding - would be trivial. - Dave From johnl at johnlabovitz.com Fri Oct 8 08:59:55 2004 From: johnl at johnlabovitz.com (John Labovitz) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Digital hub? In-Reply-To: <4323DC22-18FE-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> <17B4E268-18FC-11D9-9CD1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <4323DC22-18FE-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <18CE48F9-1943-11D9-94CD-000D93B1F9FA@johnlabovitz.com> On Oct 8, 2004, at 12:47 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > While I don't like to jump on the bandwagon with this....I do wish > there was more choice on the Mac in this regard. Not looking for Apple > to do it, but enterprising third parties. That said - there simply > must not be the market for it. I've been half-seriously considering setting up a living-room audio/video system with a 20" iMac G5 and an Elgato EyeTV 500 (that's the one that that receives HDTV broadcasts, and transmits over Firewire). This may seem extravagant, and I'll admit that it is. But if you price out a 20" LCD TV, ATSC HDTV receiver, DVD player, and a Tivo, I'll bet the cost is pretty similar. Plus, it's programmable. ;) However, Elgato's data sheet says "Dual G5 processors required for full frame rate HDTV playback at full 1920x1080 resolution." I'm not sure what would happen with the iMac. Has anyone else looked into this sort of setup? Any thoughts? -- John Labovitz Consulting, LLC http://mac.johnlabovitz.com johnl@johnlabovitz.com AIM/iChat: jslabovitz +1 503.949.3492 From steve at paper-ape.com Fri Oct 8 09:33:47 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Deep sleep In-Reply-To: References: <200407241901.i6OJ0ws5023421@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <20041007235610.30757@mail.hawaii.edu> <7EF85EEC-18D0-11D9-9EEB-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> Message-ID: at 2004-10-08, 7:35 AM +0200, they whom i call Andrew Brown wrote: >My PB G4 moves between home (airport) and office (ethernet) and >hates to wake up at either place. Does anyone have tips on how to >keep the thing running? Or how to stop sleep turning into coma? i've had that happen on a desktop G4 when using processor napping, but it also led to fairly frequent freezes while not sleeping.. (too bad, because napping really cooled and quieted my tower) -- steve harley From gherndon at eyeontech.com Fri Oct 8 10:57:22 2004 From: gherndon at eyeontech.com (George Herndon) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Ultra High Capacity Backup In-Reply-To: References: <677A0378-1923-11D9-AA44-000A95C31478@mdimension.com> <028D931C-1926-11D9-9BB6-000A95A6F8C0@joar.com> Message-ID: <80FC16E6-1953-11D9-AF60-000393DA2574@eyeontech.com> do you use the command line to remotely administer BRU? i'm looking for something i can use on headless xserves. right now, i'm using VNC to access Retrospect to control my VXA2 autoloader (keeping it on topic). anyone using a VXA2 autoloader with the firewire interface, beside me? thx, george On Oct 8, 2004, at 8:38 AM, Bill Chin wrote: > On Oct 8, 2004, at 8:31 AM, j o a r wrote: >> >> I've been looking at BRU, but not yet committed to trying / buying >> it. What's your impression on BRU wrt. compatibility, reliability, >> features, usability, et.c.? > > We are a bit mixed about it right now... it does work. The interface > is clunky. I'd rather wait until Tolis Group ships version 1.1 and > then give a review, as it is right around the corner (open beta any > day now). > > Also, the state of workgroup/enterprise backup of and on Mac OS X is > going to change a lot in the coming months. I'm hoping to evaluate > Bakbone's NetVault among others soon. Therefore, any purchase decision > unless absolutely dire should wait a little bit. > > ..Bill Chin > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Fri Oct 8 11:42:53 2004 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? Message-ID: Is it possible to symlink one user's home folder to another user on the same computer? Jim From pelorus at mac.com Fri Oct 8 11:45:46 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 8 Oct 2004, at 19:42, Jim Witte wrote: > Is it possible to symlink one user's home folder to another user on > the same computer? I'd be inclined to just a) change the entry in NetInfo b) add an alias for silly apps. From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Fri Oct 8 12:11:55 2004 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Digital hub? In-Reply-To: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> References: <0789270A-189E-11D9-A818-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: On 2004-Oct-07, at 21:18, Dave Schroeder wrote: > Everything you want to interact with - except, of course, the biggest > "digital hub" device of all: TV. Can it record shows while you're playing Doom 3? Stefano From aad at verio.net Fri Oct 8 12:33:34 2004 From: aad at verio.net (Anthony D'Atri) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Digital hub? Message-ID: > It's funny, too, because all of the > connectivity and interoperability between other digital hub devices - > cameras, camcorders, scanners, printers, PDAs, phones, CDs, DVDs, etc - > is second to none. My experience has been very different. Printer/scanner/AIO support is sparse and flaky. From helge.hess at skyrix.com Fri Oct 8 12:49:06 2004 From: helge.hess at skyrix.com (Helge Hess) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Airport Express Ethernet routing In-Reply-To: <8D32ECC2-1923-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <2FDCED85-1885-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <70A2F0CF-1888-11D9-8040-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <92F5E75D-18BD-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <72F47938-18F2-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <49A02A41-191F-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <8D32ECC2-1923-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <1D1E4488-1963-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> On Oct 8, 2004, at 14:14, Matt Johnston wrote: > On 8 Oct 2004, at 12:43, Helge Hess wrote: >> Nope, since the AE OS already supports masquerading I'm just looking >> for a hack which enables that for Ethernet. > It doesn't strictly support masquerading. It does. Otherwise you would need a public IP for each connected client (so that IP packets find their way back). > It supports routing. Pure routing (obviously) only works for public IP addresses. > Where do you see masquerading? AirPort Admin Utility, Network tab. Check "Distribute IP addresses". ---snip--- NAT and DHCP will be used to share a single IP address. ---snap--- Last time I checked, NAT (network address translation) is what is also known as masquerading. Please correct me if I'm wrong ;-) http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&lr=&oi=defmore&q=define:Masquerading BTW: a cool feature of AE is that it allows you to define one of the clients as the primary one which gets automatic port forwarding. Besides the Ethernet limitation AE is awesome and a really cool device. Greets, Helge -- http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org From pelorus at mac.com Fri Oct 8 13:37:35 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: AnandTech on Mac Message-ID: http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2232 good read. From pelorus at mac.com Fri Oct 8 13:41:34 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Airport Express Ethernet routing In-Reply-To: <1D1E4488-1963-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> References: <2FDCED85-1885-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <70A2F0CF-1888-11D9-8040-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <92F5E75D-18BD-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <72F47938-18F2-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <49A02A41-191F-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <8D32ECC2-1923-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <1D1E4488-1963-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> Message-ID: <7168AAFC-196A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 8 Oct 2004, at 20:49, Helge Hess wrote: > On Oct 8, 2004, at 14:14, Matt Johnston wrote: >> On 8 Oct 2004, at 12:43, Helge Hess wrote: >>> Nope, since the AE OS already supports masquerading I'm just looking >>> for a hack which enables that for Ethernet. >> It doesn't strictly support masquerading. > > It does. Otherwise you would need a public IP for each connected > client (so that IP packets find their way back). That's not masquerading. That's routing. >> It supports routing. > Pure routing (obviously) only works for public IP addresses. Uh, bollocks. If that was the case, then multi-subnet private networks would simply not work. >> Where do you see masquerading? > > AirPort Admin Utility, Network tab. Check "Distribute IP addresses". > ---snip--- > NAT and DHCP will be used to share a single IP address. > ---snap--- > Last time I checked, NAT (network address translation) is what is also > known as masquerading. Please correct me if I'm wrong ;-) > http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&lr=&oi=defmore&q=define:Masquerading Masquerading, to me, is something a little more specialised than just NAT. > BTW: a cool feature of AE is that it allows you to define one of the > clients as the primary one which gets automatic port forwarding. > Besides the Ethernet limitation AE is awesome and a really cool device. It's a feature that would be cool...but I guess it would need to be bigger. M From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Fri Oct 8 14:10:11 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: home office phone system Message-ID: <20041008211011.GL539@4321.tv> Hi, I telecommute and am looking for a "phone system" similar to what PBNext provides. The main problem with PBNext is that the included software is PC only. http://www.pbnext.com/comparison.em -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From ian at SKYLIST.net Fri Oct 8 14:22:53 2004 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: home office phone system In-Reply-To: <20041008211011.GL539@4321.tv> References: <20041008211011.GL539@4321.tv> Message-ID: <370D78DA-1970-11D9-A7A2-000A95BE26A6@SKYLIST.net> Does this seem like what you're looking for? http://www.ovolab.com/phlink/ On Oct 8, 2004, at 4:10 PM, Brian Medley wrote: > Hi, > > I telecommute and am looking for a "phone system" similar to what > PBNext provides. The main problem with PBNext is that the > included software is PC only. > > http://www.pbnext.com/comparison.em > > -- > ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` > @~./'O o`\.~@ > "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* > -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' > _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= > ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Fri Oct 8 14:39:56 2004 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: AnandTech on Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <990B2804-1972-11D9-BFB6-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> On 2004-Oct-08, at 21:37, Matt Johnston wrote: > http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2232 > > good read. And in the end he concludes by saying that maybe more people would switch if they had the opportunity to spend some time using a Mac. Stefano From sroebuck at mac.com Fri Oct 8 15:00:40 2004 From: sroebuck at mac.com (Scott Roebuck) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: AnandTech on Mac In-Reply-To: <990B2804-1972-11D9-BFB6-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> References: <990B2804-1972-11D9-BFB6-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <7E0D71F0-1975-11D9-A68C-000393C9FAC0@mac.com> Awwww! You gave away the ending. On Oct 8, 2004, at 2:39 PM, Stefano Mori wrote: > > On 2004-Oct-08, at 21:37, Matt Johnston wrote: > >> http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2232 >> >> good read. > > And in the end he concludes by saying that maybe more people would > switch if they had the opportunity to spend some time using a Mac. > > Stefano > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From helge.hess at skyrix.com Fri Oct 8 15:13:49 2004 From: helge.hess at skyrix.com (Helge Hess) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Airport Express Ethernet routing In-Reply-To: <7168AAFC-196A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <2FDCED85-1885-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <70A2F0CF-1888-11D9-8040-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <92F5E75D-18BD-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <72F47938-18F2-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <49A02A41-191F-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <8D32ECC2-1923-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <1D1E4488-1963-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> <7168AAFC-196A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <54804214-1977-11D9-958E-000D93C1A604@skyrix.com> On Oct 8, 2004, at 22:41, Matt Johnston wrote: >> It does. Otherwise you would need a public IP for each connected >> client (so that IP packets find their way back). > That's not masquerading. That's routing. OK, if you say so. >>> It supports routing. >> Pure routing (obviously) only works for public IP addresses. > Uh, bollocks. If that was the case, then multi-subnet private networks > would simply not work. As the name ("private networks") already implies hosts in the private network can only communicate inside that (an IP packet from the outside can't reach a private address). If they want to connect to outside hosts, they need a host which does masquerading for the internal hosts. Of course routing is also involved with that, but the enabling technology is masquerading/NAT. >> AirPort Admin Utility, Network tab. Check "Distribute IP addresses". >> ---snip--- >> NAT and DHCP will be used to share a single IP address. >> ---snap--- >> Last time I checked, NAT (network address translation) is what is >> also known as masquerading. Please correct me if I'm wrong ;-) >> http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&lr=&oi=defmore&q=define:Masquerading > Masquerading, to me, is something a little more specialised than just > NAT. So what exactly is the difference between NAT and masquerading to you? Besides, going back to the original issue, I would be fine with a hack enabling NAT + routing for Ethernet, thats all I need :-) Greets, Helge -- http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org From scott at maxify.com Fri Oct 8 16:23:34 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Digital hub? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12DCC554-1981-11D9-B9AD-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 8, 2004, at 12:33 PM, Anthony D'Atri wrote: >> It's funny, too, because all of the >> connectivity and interoperability between other digital hub devices - >> cameras, camcorders, scanners, printers, PDAs, phones, CDs, DVDs, etc >> - >> is second to none. > > My experience has been very different. Printer/scanner/AIO support is > sparse and flaky. Could you be more specific? I'm curious if you mean consumer or specialized devices? And do you mean relative to Windows or just in general? My experience is that most issues are resolved by getting updated drivers. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Fri Oct 8 16:36:37 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: home office phone system In-Reply-To: <370D78DA-1970-11D9-A7A2-000A95BE26A6@SKYLIST.net> References: <20041008211011.GL539@4321.tv> <370D78DA-1970-11D9-A7A2-000A95BE26A6@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: <20041008233637.GO539@4321.tv> On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 04:22:53PM -0500, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > Does this seem like what you're looking for? > > http://www.ovolab.com/phlink/ It does a lot of the stuff, but unfortunately it can't (AFAIK) do conferencing unless your phone co allowed that. The PBNext setup would allow you to either three way or conference with 15 people. Also, another neat feature is the ability to get PDF faxes. > On Oct 8, 2004, at 4:10 PM, Brian Medley wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >I telecommute and am looking for a "phone system" similar to what > >PBNext provides. The main problem with PBNext is that the > >included software is PC only. > > > >http://www.pbnext.com/comparison.em -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From gkreme at gmail.com Fri Oct 8 19:54:41 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google ListKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:45:46 +0100, Matt Johnston wrote: > On 8 Oct 2004, at 19:42, Jim Witte wrote: > > Is it possible to symlink one user's home folder to another user on > > the same computer? The trouble with this is who owns the files in the home directory? -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From mrhatken at mac.com Sat Oct 9 00:31:54 2004 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? Message-ID: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> Call me out-of-touch, call me strange, but I just found the "Internet Backgammon" game on Windows XP and had a game with someone from the Netherlands (who seemed to nip off just before I won ;-). It's quite a different experience, playing and chatting with someone than playing against the computer (you have your honour to defend, whereas when playing the computer you can just hit "New Game" and nobody but you knows ;-). What's the situation like for Mac Internet gaming? I had a quick look on VersionTracker and couldn't see an equivalent of the the Windows "Internet Backgammon." With broadband, always on Internet, becoming more and more common-place (at least in the Western world), it would seem to me that this would be a big growth area. As I have admitted above, however, I've not been tracking this closely, so maybe its all old news. Of course, I know there are Internet-based Doom (and similar) games, and I know there are Internet games servers ... my question is really: Why isn't there an "Internet Backgammon" included with MacOSX? Or why isn't Chess on MacOSX Internet-aware? Starting up chess and having an opponent there, ready, willing and able to beat my socks off, would be an interesting feature (for me at least ;-). Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com From scott at maxify.com Sat Oct 9 00:38:31 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> Message-ID: <37B6393E-19C6-11D9-B7AA-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 9, 2004, at 12:31 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > Of course, I know there are Internet-based Doom (and similar) games, > and I know there are Internet games servers ... my question is really: > Why isn't there an "Internet Backgammon" included with MacOSX? That's pretty specific. :) > Or why isn't Chess on MacOSX Internet-aware? Good question, though this is good alternative (2004 Apple Design Award recipient for Best Mac OS X Product): http://www.freeverse.com/bbbg/ On a more general basis, check out GameSmith (with backgammon) and GameRanger: http://www.gamesmith.biz/ http://www.gameranger.com/ Even yet more information still: http://www.apple.com/games/gettingstarted/online/ http://www.apple.com/games/gettingstarted/multiplayer/ - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From pelorus at mac.com Sat Oct 9 00:47:18 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 9 Oct 2004, at 03:54, Google ListKreme wrote: > On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:45:46 +0100, Matt Johnston > wrote: >> On 8 Oct 2004, at 19:42, Jim Witte wrote: >>> Is it possible to symlink one user's home folder to another user on >>> the same computer? > > The trouble with this is who owns the files in the home directory? change the UID to the same number. No problem. From mah at jump-ing.de Sat Oct 9 01:07:42 2004 From: mah at jump-ing.de (Markus Hitter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> Message-ID: <4BA1675C-19CA-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Am 09.10.2004 um 09:31 schrieb Ashley Aitken: > Why isn't there an "Internet Backgammon" included with MacOSX? Adding non-essential applications to the OS distribution whould be slightly misplaced, IMHO. Even apps like Xcode or iMovie come on a separate disk. You are free to install such an app after the OS installation, however. Google, Sourceforge and VersionTracker are your friends. > Or why isn't Chess on MacOSX Internet-aware? Because nobody had the time to hack it this way? Feel free to do so yourself :-) The point of Chess is it's gaming engine, not the code drawing the board, btw. Cheers, Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ From mrhatken at mac.com Sat Oct 9 01:18:06 2004 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: <4BA1675C-19CA-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <4BA1675C-19CA-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Message-ID: Ok, I knew about GameRanger (Scott's lives in Perth), but not the Freeverse games (they look great). My point was, I first experienced this sort of gaming simply and without problem on Windows, why wasn't it on my Mac? Your average Joe and Jane probably isn't going to go looking for this sorting of thing (because I doubt they know it exists), but they will happen upon it on Windows. I think Chess should be Internet-aware, or perhaps MacOSX should include a sample Freeverse game. Cheers, Ashley. From pelorus at mac.com Sat Oct 9 02:37:26 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <4BA1675C-19CA-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Message-ID: On 9 Oct 2004, at 09:18, Ashley Aitken wrote: > Your average Joe and Jane probably isn't going to go looking for this > sorting of thing (because I doubt they know it exists), but they will > happen upon it on Windows. I think Chess should be Internet-aware, or > perhaps MacOSX should include a sample Freeverse game. Well, when you buy a i/eMac/book you do get 2-3 games included on it. Not BackGammon maybe. But then BackGammon sucks. M From mrhatken at mac.com Sat Oct 9 02:55:07 2004 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <4BA1675C-19CA-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Message-ID: <4CBF8A70-19D9-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> On 09/10/2004, at 5:37 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: > > On 9 Oct 2004, at 09:18, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >> Your average Joe and Jane probably isn't going to go looking for this >> sorting of thing (because I doubt they know it exists), but they will >> happen upon it on Windows. I think Chess should be Internet-aware, >> or perhaps MacOSX should include a sample Freeverse game. > > Well, when you buy a i/eMac/book you do get 2-3 games included on it. But I don't believe any of them are Internet-aware (i.e. Internet gaming) which was the focus of this thread ... If any of them are then my concern is unfounded. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com From gkreme at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 10:14:08 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google ListKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 08:47:18 +0100, Matt Johnston wrote: > > On 9 Oct 2004, at 03:54, Google ListKreme wrote: > > > On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:45:46 +0100, Matt Johnston > > wrote: > >> On 8 Oct 2004, at 19:42, Jim Witte wrote: > >>> Is it possible to symlink one user's home folder to another user on > >>> the same computer? > > > > The trouble with this is who owns the files in the home directory? > > change the UID to the same number. No problem. If the UIDs are the same why have different user names? And even if you do want different user names, why not simply use the same home folder for them all rather than trying to symlink them together? -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From omnigroup at spacemoo.com Sat Oct 9 10:20:35 2004 From: omnigroup at spacemoo.com (Dieder Bylsma) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Piping cron output to mail? Message-ID: I'd like to figger out a way to pipe the output of a cronjob to mail (not 'Mail.app) and get it sent out directly instead of logged to a file. This would not be mailed to a local user, but instead out to an external email address. "man mail" gets a bit confusing. any suggestions or pointers appreciated, Dieder From pelorus at mac.com Sat Oct 9 10:27:44 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <87FE18EC-1A18-11D9-94D6-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 9 Oct 2004, at 18:14, Google ListKreme wrote: > On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 08:47:18 +0100, Matt Johnston > wrote: >> >> On 9 Oct 2004, at 03:54, Google ListKreme wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:45:46 +0100, Matt Johnston >>> wrote: >>>> On 8 Oct 2004, at 19:42, Jim Witte wrote: >>>>> Is it possible to symlink one user's home folder to another user >>>>> on >>>>> the same computer? >>> >>> The trouble with this is who owns the files in the home directory? >> >> change the UID to the same number. No problem. > > If the UIDs are the same why have different user names? And even if > you do want different user names, why not simply use the same home > folder for them all rather than trying to symlink them together? So you can have two different logins. Duh. From gkreme at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 10:32:46 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google ListKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Piping cron output to mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:20:35 -0700, Dieder Bylsma wrote: > I'd like to figger out a way to pipe the output of a cronjob to mail (not > 'Mail.app) and get it sent out directly instead of logged to a file. This > would not be mailed to a local user, but instead out to an external email > address. here's one line in a crontab: 5 0 * * * /usr/bin/bzcat /var/log/maillog.0.bz2 | grep -i block | awk -F= {'print $3 " " $4 " " $6'} | awk {'print "blocked from: "$1 " To: "$3 " Claimed to be "$5'} | grep "kreme@kreme" | mail -E -s "Blocked mail for Yesterday" kreme@kreme.com the -E aborts sending the mail if there are no blocked messages and the -s sets the subject. -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From gkreme at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 10:34:47 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google ListKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: <87FE18EC-1A18-11D9-94D6-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <87FE18EC-1A18-11D9-94D6-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 18:27:44 +0100, Matt Johnston wrote: > On 9 Oct 2004, at 18:14, Google ListKreme wrote: > > If the UIDs are the same why have different user names? And even if > > you do want different user names, why not simply use the same home > > folder for them all rather than trying to symlink them together? > > So you can have two different logins. > > Duh. And why can you not have two different logins and use the same home folder instead of aliasing/symlinking one home to the other? Or did you stop reading after the first sentence? -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From rehder at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 10:37:26 2004 From: rehder at gmail.com (Matt Rehder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: <4CBF8A70-19D9-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <4BA1675C-19CA-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> <4CBF8A70-19D9-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 17:55:07 +0800, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > On 09/10/2004, at 5:37 PM, Matt Johnston wrote: > > > > > On 9 Oct 2004, at 09:18, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > > >> Your average Joe and Jane probably isn't going to go looking for this > >> sorting of thing (because I doubt they know it exists), but they will > >> happen upon it on Windows. I think Chess should be Internet-aware, > >> or perhaps MacOSX should include a sample Freeverse game. > > > > Well, when you buy a i/eMac/book you do get 2-3 games included on it. > > But I don't believe any of them are Internet-aware (i.e. Internet > gaming) which was the focus of this thread ... If any of them are then > my concern is unfounded. > > > > Cheers, > Ashley. A .mac subscription comes with a few free freeverse games. There is also yahoo games and all those web based card type games out there. If a person wants to play, they can find them. -matt From pelorus at mac.com Sat Oct 9 10:43:34 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <87FE18EC-1A18-11D9-94D6-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 9 Oct 2004, at 18:34, Google ListKreme wrote: > On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 18:27:44 +0100, Matt Johnston > wrote: >> On 9 Oct 2004, at 18:14, Google ListKreme wrote: >>> If the UIDs are the same why have different user names? And even if >>> you do want different user names, why not simply use the same home >>> folder for them all rather than trying to symlink them together? >> >> So you can have two different logins. >> >> Duh. > > And why can you not have two different logins and use the same home > folder instead of aliasing/symlinking one home to the other? Or did > you stop reading after the first sentence? Because the original user didn't really want to symlink. Symlink is for UNIX morons, Mac OS X morons use a combination of Aliases (for stupid Mac apps) and NetInfo (for smart Cocoa and unix apps). I have two logins to my machine, both with the same UID....and the same home folder. I have good reasons. M From chris at growl.info Sat Oct 9 11:09:57 2004 From: chris at growl.info (Christopher Forsythe) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> Message-ID: <6D8B0498-1A1E-11D9-AAA7-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> I'm working with a project called IMGames (http://imgames.sf.net). We don't have anything out yet, but are working on it. It's been a rather fun silly time so far. The idea behind it is to give all the instant messenger apps on os x a way to access games easily, without much work on their end, and to allow people to would call games the very evil, very idiotic word "Bloat" a way of not saying that. :D Adium has Tic Tac Toe in it right now. That's going to be removed and added to IMGames. Right now Chess is the main focus, then checkers, etc etc etc. The list of games is endless, hehe. The reason that Internet Backgammon really isn't included is that they had so much to fit on a cd, and had to figure out how to fit as much in there that would have given x amount of people a good thing. Someone pointed out that XCode isn't included in OS X by default, but on a 4th cd. iMovie was also pointed out (incorrectly, it's included by default still). Some apps aren't installed but on the 3rd cd, and you can choose it. I'm sure you know all this :D Chess is actually based off of GNU Chess. I do not believe that GNU Chess is internet enabled (I could be wrong), so that is probably why Apple didn't make it internet enabled. Cost of making it internet enabled vs. value of doing so was probably a big factor for management. So anyhow, hope this answers some questions :D Chris On Oct 9, 2004, at 2:31 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > > Call me out-of-touch, call me strange, but I just found the "Internet > Backgammon" game on Windows XP and had a game with someone from the > Netherlands (who seemed to nip off just before I won ;-). It's quite > a different experience, playing and chatting with someone than playing > against the computer (you have your honour to defend, whereas when > playing the computer you can just hit "New Game" and nobody but you > knows ;-). > > What's the situation like for Mac Internet gaming? I had a quick look > on VersionTracker and couldn't see an equivalent of the the Windows > "Internet Backgammon." With broadband, always on Internet, becoming > more and more common-place (at least in the Western world), it would > seem to me that this would be a big growth area. As I have admitted > above, however, I've not been tracking this closely, so maybe its all > old news. > > Of course, I know there are Internet-based Doom (and similar) games, > and I know there are Internet games servers ... my question is really: > Why isn't there an "Internet Backgammon" included with MacOSX? Or > why isn't Chess on MacOSX Internet-aware? Starting up chess and > having an opponent there, ready, willing and able to beat my socks > off, would be an interesting feature (for me at least ;-). > > Cheers, > Ashley. > > -- > Ashley Aitken > Perth, Western Australia > mrhatken at mac dot com > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From jearle at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 11:12:28 2004 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Piping cron output to mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5bbc0cd6041009111216e1d6bb@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:20:35 -0700, Dieder Bylsma wrote: > I'd like to figger out a way to pipe the output of a cronjob to mail (not > 'Mail.app) and get it sent out directly instead of logged to a file. This > would not be mailed to a local user, but instead out to an external email > address. jearle@mantaray$ crontab -l @hourly date | mail -s "This mail contains the date" cron@spacemoo.com -- Jared Earle :: http://www.23x.net jearle@gmail.com :: There is no SPORK From jearle at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 11:15:34 2004 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <5bbc0cd604100911157500aec9@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:14:08 -0600, Google ListKreme wrote: > If the UIDs are the same why have different user names? And even if > you do want different user names, why not simply use the same home > folder for them all rather than trying to symlink them together? 1: So people don't have to share passwords. 2: If they have different UIDs but the same ~ then who owns the files? World of hurt. -- Jared Earle :: http://www.23x.net jearle@gmail.com :: There is no SPORK From gkreme at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 11:48:07 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google ListKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: <5bbc0cd604100911157500aec9@mail.gmail.com> References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <5bbc0cd604100911157500aec9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 20:15:34 +0200, Jared Earle wrote: > On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:14:08 -0600, Google ListKreme wrote: > > If the UIDs are the same why have different user names? And even if > > you do want different user names, why not simply use the same home > > folder for them all rather than trying to symlink them together? > > 1: So people don't have to share passwords. Nifty, it still seems to make a whole lot more sense using the same home directory for each user. I'm not sure how user 'bob' password 'JvWJkrcXrC' with a uid of 517 and user 'fred' with a password of '22sqFSL9q' and a UID of 517 is any more secure that 'sharing' the password for an account named "bobnfred" After all, they are identical as far as the system is concerned. Most, if not all, system logs will only show the username for whichever user is first in the passwd file, so it's not like you can track which login screwed something up. And ls -l will show fred that all the files in his home are owned by bob, and I'm pretty sure even a `whoami` will tell fred that he is, in fact, bob (assuming bob is first listed). In fact, the only thing I can think of where this might be useful is in an ftp setup, but I don't create -real- users for ftp anyway, so that's moot. -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Sat Oct 9 12:07:45 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Piping cron output to mail? In-Reply-To: <5bbc0cd6041009111216e1d6bb@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bbc0cd6041009111216e1d6bb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041009190745.GA17336@4321.tv> On Sat, Oct 09, 2004 at 08:12:28PM +0200, Jared Earle wrote: > On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:20:35 -0700, Dieder Bylsma wrote: > > I'd like to figger out a way to pipe the output of a cronjob to mail (not > > 'Mail.app) and get it sent out directly instead of logged to a file. This > > would not be mailed to a local user, but instead out to an external email > > address. > > jearle@mantaray$ crontab -l > @hourly date | mail -s "This mail contains the date" cron@spacemoo.com Don't forget STDERR, if you also want that: @hourly date 2>&1 | mail -s "This mail contains the date" cron@spacemoo.com -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From aad at verio.net Sat Oct 9 12:26:42 2004 From: aad at verio.net (Anthony D'Atri) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Digital hub? Message-ID: <264623E2-1A29-11D9-9E56-000A95A637EC@verio.net> >Could you be more specific? Sure. Canon's AIO devices have no drivers at all. The HP PSC 2510 I have now is pretty much unusable when I try to connect it via the net. I had to rearrange and connect it via USB. > I'm curious if you mean consumer or specialized devices? Consumer. The only specialized device I have, a Canopus video capture box, works great, though iMovie's limitations make it a pain to use. >And do you mean relative to [MS] Windows or just in general? Both >My experience is that most issues are resolved by getting updated >drivers. The HP driver for the PSC 2510 is the latest. Could have had a free Canon, but ooops no drivers at all. In the past I had an HP d135, and it was flaky too, but worked fine from M$-land. I tried to use my Zio smartmedia reader on my G5. Panicked the kernel. Repeatedly. So I stuck it on my crufty old M$WXP laptop and it worked fine. From pelorus at mac.com Sat Oct 9 12:38:46 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:35 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <5bbc0cd604100911157500aec9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 9 Oct 2004, at 19:48, Google ListKreme wrote: > I'm not sure how user 'bob' password 'JvWJkrcXrC' with a uid of 517 > and user 'fred' with a password of '22sqFSL9q' and a UID of 517 is any > more secure that 'sharing' the password for an account named > "bobnfred" Well, a) you can give bob admin privs b) you can limit fred c) you can log their login patterns d) you can chroot their accounts for ftp... > After all, they are identical as far as the system is concerned. Not quite. As I infer, groups work off usernames, not UIDs. > Most, if not all, system logs will only show the username for > whichever user is first in the passwd file, so it's not like you can > track which login screwed something up. And ls -l will show fred that > all the files in his home are owned by bob, and I'm pretty sure even a > `whoami` will tell fred that he is, in fact, bob (assuming bob is > first listed). Well, no, because the system log will show which username was used if you want to set it up for that. > In fact, the only thing I can think of where this might be useful is > in an ftp setup, but I don't create -real- users for ftp anyway, so > that's moot. From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Sat Oct 9 13:43:43 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <5bbc0cd604100911157500aec9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041009204343.GB17336@4321.tv> On Sat, Oct 09, 2004 at 08:38:46PM +0100, Matt Johnston wrote: > Well, no, because the system log will show which username was > used if you want to set it up for that. Are you referring to logging done by syslogd(8)? If so, how can you configure it to show the different usernames, with the same UID? -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From phil at cheshland.com Sat Oct 9 14:13:06 2004 From: phil at cheshland.com (Phil Larson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: <4BA1675C-19CA-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <4BA1675C-19CA-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Message-ID: <03D58DB8-1A38-11D9-B992-000A959B1DF4@cheshland.com> On Oct 9, 2004, at 1:07 AM, Markus Hitter wrote: > The point of Chess is it's gaming engine, not the code drawing the > board, btw. Not so sure about this one. The engine wasn't written by Apple, it's GNU Chess. It seems to me more a proof of concept of wrapping something and putting a Cocoa front end on it. The source code for Chess.app is available by the way. Phil From pelorus at mac.com Sat Oct 9 15:04:37 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: <20041009204343.GB17336@4321.tv> References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <5bbc0cd604100911157500aec9@mail.gmail.com> <20041009204343.GB17336@4321.tv> Message-ID: <3635CDCC-1A3F-11D9-A7CF-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 9 Oct 2004, at 21:43, Brian Medley wrote: > On Sat, Oct 09, 2004 at 08:38:46PM +0100, Matt Johnston wrote: > >> Well, no, because the system log will show which username was >> used if you want to set it up for that. > > Are you referring to logging done by syslogd(8)? If so, how can > you configure it to show the different usernames, with the same > UID? No, I'm referring to the logging I used to read though on old Solaris machines. It reported the username. I could investigate but I'm tired and ...well...don't care. M From jearle at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 15:06:57 2004 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Piping cron output to mail? In-Reply-To: <20041009190745.GA17336@4321.tv> References: <5bbc0cd6041009111216e1d6bb@mail.gmail.com> <20041009190745.GA17336@4321.tv> Message-ID: <5bbc0cd60410091506415ce837@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 14:07:45 -0500, Brian Medley wrote: > Don't forget STDERR, if you also want that: > > @hourly date 2>&1 | mail -s "This mail contains the date" cron@spacemoo.com IMHO, you'd want errors to go to the machine account, but I see where you're coming from. -- Jared Earle :: http://www.23x.net jearle@gmail.com :: There is no SPORK From shoop at mac.com Sat Oct 9 15:09:28 2004 From: shoop at mac.com (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Piping cron output to mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:20 AM -0700 10/9/04, Dieder Bylsma wrote: >I'd like to figger out a way to pipe the output of a cronjob to mail >(not 'Mail.app) and get it sent out directly instead of logged to a >file. This would not be mailed to a local user, but instead out to >an external email address. cron already supports this. It will send the log by email to the user who's crontab is executed. You can also set the environment variables in the crontab to reflect a different address. In this case you should investigate the MAILTO environment variable. In any event there's certainly no reason to pipe cron to mail. Nor would this be workable anyway. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop shoop@iwiring.net Consulting Internet Architect shoop@mac.com AIM: iWiring http://www.iwiring.net/ Skype: danshoop http://www.ustsvs.com/ pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring designs and supports Internet systems and networks based on Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies and offers 24x7, guaranteed support to registered clients, at affordable rates. From jearle at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 15:09:55 2004 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <5bbc0cd604100911157500aec9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bbc0cd60410091509385d16f@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:48:07 -0600, Google ListKreme wrote: > I'm not sure how user 'bob' password 'JvWJkrcXrC' with a uid of 517 > and user 'fred' with a password of '22sqFSL9q' and a UID of 517 is any > more secure that 'sharing' the password for an account named > "bobnfred" You can sack Fred and not have to change Bob's password as a result. -- Jared Earle :: http://www.23x.net jearle@gmail.com :: There is no SPORK From shoop at mac.com Sat Oct 9 15:14:40 2004 From: shoop at mac.com (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: sizeimage.cgi -- submitted w/o further comment In-Reply-To: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> Message-ID: #!/usr/bin/perl # # sizeimage.cgi # # Written by Dan Shoop # Subject to the Creative Commons License # Some Rights Reserved # # Version a1.0a # # Usage example as URL: # http://host[:port][/dir/]sizeimage.cgi?img={file}$size={pixels} # # Requires: # Mac OS X 10.3 # An appropriately configured Apache config file # # _Description_ # Output an image (inline) of most any known type (jpeg, pict, tiff, ... psd !!) # as a jpeg resized at the size requested using Mac OS X's SIPS facility to # mogrify the image. Useful when using an image tag in html such as # # in a web page or other URL, which would produce a thumbnail on the fly. # Likewise one could keep full resolution files on a server and dynamically # generate both thumbnails and images for a gallery. # # _History_ # a1.0a 20041008-dhan Initial proof of concept # use CGI qw/:standard/; use CGI::Carp 'fatalsToBrowser'; $query = new CGI; $imageFile = $query->param('img'); $size = $query->param('size'); $r = rand 100; $t = time; $tmpFile = "/tmp/sizeimage_cgi_$imageFile$t$r.jpg"; print header( -type=>'image/gif', -whoami=>'macosx-sizeimage.cgi', -author=>'shoop(at)iwiring(dot)net' ); `sips -Z $size --out $tmpFile -s format jpeg $imageFile`; print(`cat $tmpFile`); `rm $tmpFile`; # One could improve this with caching by changing of $tmpfile to a more # predictable name (e.g. "$cachedir/$size/imagefile) and then checking for # it's existence first and if so just cat'ing it. # One could also improve on the use of execs by replacing the cat and rm with # more perl-esque methods. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop shoop@iwiring.net Consulting Internet Architect shoop@mac.com AIM: iWiring http://www.iwiring.net/ Skype: danshoop http://www.ustsvs.com/ pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring designs and supports Internet systems and networks based on Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies and offers 24x7, guaranteed support to registered clients, at affordable rates. From jearle at gmail.com Sat Oct 9 15:20:15 2004 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Piping cron output to mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5bbc0cd6041009152014ff6a59@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 18:09:28 -0400, Dan Shoop wrote: > At 10:20 AM -0700 10/9/04, Dieder Bylsma wrote: > >I'd like to figger out a way to pipe the output of a cronjob to mail > >(not 'Mail.app) and get it sent out directly instead of logged to a > >file. This would not be mailed to a local user, but instead out to > >an external email address. > > cron already supports this. It will send the log by email to the user > who's crontab is executed. You can also set the environment variables > in the crontab to reflect a different address. In this case you > should investigate the MAILTO environment variable. *A* cronjob, *a* different user. If he'd asked for redirecting all cronjobs, then I'd have mentioned the envs: In addition to LOGNAME, HOME, and SHELL, cron(8) will look at MAILTO if it has any reason to send mail as a result of running commands in ``this'' crontab. If MAILTO is defined (and non-empty), mail is sent to the user so named. If MAILTO is defined but empty (MAILTO=""), no mail will be sent. Otherwise mail is sent to the owner of the crontab. - man 5 crontab > In any event there's certainly no reason to pipe cron to mail. Nor > would this be workable anyway. No, but you can pipe individual commands and there are several perfectly valid reasons to do this. dhan, you know all this, I just think you misinterpreted his request. :) -- Jared Earle :: http://www.23x.net jearle@gmail.com :: There is no SPORK From scott at maxify.com Sat Oct 9 15:46:00 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <4BA1675C-19CA-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Message-ID: On Oct 9, 2004, at 1:18 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > Ok, I knew about GameRanger (Scott's lives in Perth), but not the > Freeverse games (they look great). My point was, I first experienced > this sort of gaming simply and without problem on Windows, why wasn't > it on my Mac? Not that there isn't value in it, but built-in online games doesn't seem to me like really obvious thing that Mac OS X should "just have." You can find plenty of things that Mac OS X has built-in that Windows doesn't and vice-versa. Not clear to me why this one is particularly special. I can see a stronger argument for more built-in games in general, though. > I think Chess should be Internet-aware Sounds good to me. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From scott at maxify.com Sat Oct 9 15:48:55 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: <4CBF8A70-19D9-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <4BA1675C-19CA-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> <4CBF8A70-19D9-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> Message-ID: <6616737E-1A45-11D9-B2AD-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 9, 2004, at 2:55 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: >> Well, when you buy a i/eMac/book you do get 2-3 games included on it. > > But I don't believe any of them are Internet-aware (i.e. Internet > gaming) which was the focus of this thread ... If any of them are > then my concern is unfounded. I think Tony Hawk 4 has online play. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From bmw at borderware.com Sat Oct 9 16:39:33 2004 From: bmw at borderware.com (Bruce Walker) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <4BA1675C-19CA-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Message-ID: <416876B5.309@borderware.com> Scott Stevenson wrote: > > I can see a stronger argument for more built-in games in general, though. > I agree. I'm not much of a computer game player really: the last game I was addicted to was Lode Runner. :-) But when the first Bondi iMac showed-up in my IT shop back in 1998 I became glued to Nanosaur. So you can imagine my disappointment when I bought my very own Mac (my first), a 12" Al PowerBook, and it didn't come with Nanosaur, or any 3D time-wasting action game at all! Boo hoo. (I might be moved to buy Nanosaur II, but I really can't justify it--after all I'm not /really/ a computer game player ...) From pelorus at mac.com Sat Oct 9 16:49:07 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: <416876B5.309@borderware.com> References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <4BA1675C-19CA-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> <416876B5.309@borderware.com> Message-ID: On 10 Oct 2004, at 00:39, Bruce Walker wrote: > So you can imagine my disappointment when I bought my very own Mac (my > first), a 12" Al PowerBook, and it didn't come with Nanosaur, or any > 3D time-wasting action game at all! Boo hoo. Well, when an i-computer comes with Tony Hawk 4, Marble Blast and Nanosaur 2 and a power-computer comes with Omnigraffle and a couple of other utilities.... M From mrhatken at mac.com Sat Oct 9 18:58:32 2004 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <4BA1675C-19CA-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Message-ID: I'm not sure I've made myself clear (as usual). I'm not arguing for any particular game, it could be backgammon, or chess, or it could be tic-tac-toe. I'm just saying that whilst browsing Windows XP, I saw some games, I started backgammon, and was surprised to see "Internet Opponent" (or something like that) as an option. I clicked on it and without any further ado I was suddenly playing someone else (a real person) with whom I could chat if I wish. For me at least, it was a neat experience (sure, I should get out more ;-) that I wish had been on MacOS X rather than on Windows. Sure you can download/buy Internet games for MacOSX, but I would like people to experience this like I did (but on a Mac), from just playing around. My experience made me feel (a little) better about Windows (even though, of course, this game has very little to do with Windows itself, except the fact that Microsoft chose to include the game). If as Scott suggests Tony Hawk 4 has online play (and I have not reason to doubt him) and comes with iMacs/iBooks then that is probably good enough for the experience I mentioned above. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com From toble at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Oct 9 22:41:10 2004 From: toble at blueyonder.co.uk (Toby Morris) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Mail.app rules Message-ID: Hi guys, sorry to be so pathetic but can someone point me in the right direction - namely I would like Mail.app to save replies to a separate folder so they are not lost when I empty trash. Tried Googling but at the mo not having much luck Cheers T From pelorus at mac.com Sun Oct 10 00:24:28 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <4BA1675C-19CA-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Message-ID: <6BF8CF4E-1A8D-11D9-A7CF-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 10 Oct 2004, at 02:58, Ashley Aitken wrote: > Sure you can download/buy Internet games for MacOSX, but I would like > people to experience this like I did (but on a Mac), from just playing > around. Honestly I don't see the issue. :P From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Sat Oct 9 22:51:09 2004 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Mac Internet Gaming? In-Reply-To: <6D8B0498-1A1E-11D9-AAA7-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> References: <4B75658C-19C5-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <6D8B0498-1A1E-11D9-AAA7-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> Message-ID: <62A2E545-1A80-11D9-ABFF-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> >> I'm working with a project called IMGames (http://imgames.sf.net). We >> don't have anything out yet, but are working on it. It's been a >> rather fun silly time so far. >> The idea behind it is to give all the instant messenger apps on os x >> a way to access games easily, without much work on their end, and to >> allow people to would call games the very evil, very idiotic word >> "Bloat" a way of not > Cost of making it internet enabled vs. value of doing so was probably > a big factor for management. Why doesn't Apple build this into the iChat framework? I'm not sure if AIM is quite set up for it (their 'anti-flooding' provision may preclude it, and it is probably not a very good use of AIM bandwidth), but if the AIM framework had a way to transfer IP addresses, and then go with a direct connection (instead of going through AIM).. I think this *would* be something that Apple could tout to developers. Of course, all the *big* game companies (Aspyr, etc) already have their own proprietary (I suppose) Internet-gaming code, so it's not clear whether a standard framework would be that useful.. On the other hand, if Apple did make something like that, convince companies to use it, port it to Windows, and then patented it.. (don't laugh - I'm sure it could be done with the screwy USPTO that let's Amazon patent the cookies [rather than just trademark "One Click"]) Jim From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Sun Oct 10 01:29:13 2004 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <77211C64-1A96-11D9-AC04-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> > On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:45:46 +0100, Matt Johnston > wrote: >> On 8 Oct 2004, at 19:42, Jim Witte wrote: >>> Is it possible to symlink one user's home folder to another user on >>> the same computer? > The trouble with this is who owns the files in the home directory? I should say the reason I want to do this: basically, so I can set up different accounts that have different (default) VPN configurations and printer settings, etc, while still having both "users" have access to the same files. This was one of the stated purposes of Fast User Switching, right? - "multiple personas".. I'm quite sure there's an easier way to do this - either with Applescripts or something more closely approximating the Location Manger of OS9. Jim From jeremy.dronfield at virgin.net Sun Oct 10 02:37:21 2004 From: jeremy.dronfield at virgin.net (Jeremy Dronfield) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare Message-ID: My jaw landed in my lap when I saw this on television last night: How would you feel about your country's nuclear arsenal being controlled by Windows 2000? Flee! Hide! List-relevant note: in the TV interview with the "combat-systems expert from the company designing the technology", the expert's own computers in the background were running Mac OS X. Regards, Jeremy From mah at jump-ing.de Sun Oct 10 02:54:00 2004 From: mah at jump-ing.de (Markus Hitter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <5bbc0cd604100911157500aec9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F502A3C-1AA2-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Am 09.10.2004 um 20:48 schrieb Google ListKreme: > I'm not sure how user 'bob' password 'JvWJkrcXrC' with a uid of 517 > and user 'fred' with a password of '22sqFSL9q' and a UID of 517 is any > more secure that 'sharing' the password for an account named > "bobnfred" It isn't more secure. Actually, a hacker with a brute force attack whould find one of both passwords in half the time. 2700 years instead of 5400 years or so. But then, both users can pick up their favorite password which is easier to remember for each. And, to be honest, a lot of users use the same password for a lot of different accounts. So, the setup hides this password from the other user. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ From mah at jump-ing.de Sun Oct 10 03:37:48 2004 From: mah at jump-ing.de (Markus Hitter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6DAFD796-1AA8-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Am 10.10.2004 um 11:37 schrieb Jeremy Dronfield: > My jaw landed in my lap when I saw this on television last night: > > Let's hope, Microsoft doesn't release one of their daily patches requiring a reboot in midst of an attack. > How would you feel about your country's nuclear arsenal being > controlled by Windows 2000? Well, we don't have one. Perhaps Britain wants to share theirs with the rest of the world now ;-) To be more serious, there are cheaper and more reliable OS' on the market. Doesn't shed a good light on these engineers. > List-relevant note: in the TV interview with the "combat-systems > expert from the company designing the technology", the expert's own > computers in the background were running Mac OS X. Not sure wether I'd use OS X either for such mission critical applications. There are a lot of features in OS X which are great for end users but hang the system on rare cases. Example: If you hit the F11 key accidentally, your windows are gone until you recognize the situation and fix it by pressing this key again. Provided you know how to fix it. Good ol' X11 without a window manager isn't that bad for such stuff. my ?0.02 Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ From mrhatken at mac.com Sun Oct 10 04:15:13 2004 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Any iSync-compatible phones sync (postal) addresses? Message-ID: Howdy All, Do any of the iSync-compatible phone sync postal addresses? I'd prefer something that was a phone not a full PDA-phone (i.e. not a Palm device) primarily due to cost. Apple says they synch "Address Book" but my understanding of this is that it usually means one phone number at worst, and a couple of phone numbers and email addresses at best. For example, the SE T68i/T610/T630/K700i all sync only phone numbers (and possibly an email as discussed above). I guess it is probably asking too much for a phone's "address book" to be more than phone numbers, but I thought I would just check. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com From lists at dix-lorenz.de Sun Oct 10 04:29:22 2004 From: lists at dix-lorenz.de (Dix Lorenz) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Any iSync-compatible phones sync (postal) addresses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10.10.2004, at 13:15, Ashley Aitken wrote: > Do any of the iSync-compatible phone sync postal addresses? I'd > prefer something that was a phone not a full PDA-phone (i.e. not a > Palm device) primarily due to cost. My Nokia 6600 has all the addresses... Greetings, Dix From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Sun Oct 10 04:44:39 2004 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041010114439.GA12772@Dark-Age.local> On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 10:37:21AM +0100, Jeremy Dronfield wrote: : : My jaw landed in my lap when I saw this on television last night: : : : : How would you feel about your country's nuclear arsenal being : controlled by Windows 2000? Flee! Hide! If your stupid nation is stupid enough to depend on Windoze for your military systems, your stupid nation deserves to lose. If your nation counts on such a stupid nation as your military ally, your nation deserves to lose too. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From pcoskren at mac.com Sun Oct 10 06:51:09 2004 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare In-Reply-To: <6DAFD796-1AA8-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> References: <6DAFD796-1AA8-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Message-ID: <70F048EE-1AC3-11D9-B9DE-003065C198D4@mac.com> On Oct 10, 2004, at 6:37 AM, Markus Hitter wrote: > Not sure wether I'd use OS X either for such mission critical > applications. There are a lot of features in OS X which are great for > end users but hang the system on rare cases. Example: If you hit the > F11 key accidentally, your windows are gone until you recognize the > situation and fix it by pressing this key again. Provided you know how > to fix it. > > Good ol' X11 without a window manager isn't that bad for such stuff. Agreed; this is a job for BSD. Another reason is that the military has the source to every component from the ground up. For something that specialized, that's critical. Neither OS X, Windows, nor BSD out of the box is designed to handle military situations. After all, if the enemy knows what software is running your weapons, they may target it directly. -Patrick From jeremy.dronfield at virgin.net Sun Oct 10 09:29:10 2004 From: jeremy.dronfield at virgin.net (Jeremy Dronfield) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare In-Reply-To: <20041010114439.GA12772@Dark-Age.local> References: <20041010114439.GA12772@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <83813ECE-1AD9-11D9-8144-003065F3CDDA@virgin.net> On 10 Oct 2004, at 12:44 pm, Eugene wrote: > If your stupid nation is stupid enough to depend on Windoze for your > military systems, your stupid nation deserves to lose. Somehow, I don't think the critical issue here is "losing". I'm more concerned about who's going to be on the receiving end of those missiles. I wouldn't trust them to even hit the right country. Regards, Jeremy From jeremy.dronfield at virgin.net Sun Oct 10 09:29:08 2004 From: jeremy.dronfield at virgin.net (Jeremy Dronfield) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare In-Reply-To: <6DAFD796-1AA8-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> References: <6DAFD796-1AA8-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Message-ID: <826C0E5E-1AD9-11D9-8144-003065F3CDDA@virgin.net> On 10 Oct 2004, at 11:37 am, Markus Hitter wrote: >> List-relevant note: in the TV interview with the "combat-systems >> expert from the company designing the technology", the expert's own >> computers in the background were running Mac OS X. > > Not sure wether I'd use OS X either for such mission critical > applications. Well, no - I merely mentioned that because it amused me. In fact the engineer in question favoured Unix - if an out-of-the-box solution had to be used. Which it does, apparently. The reason for this is a UK government directive under which government departments must use ready-made commercial solutions wherever available - to "cut costs". Regards, Jeremy From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Sun Oct 10 10:23:53 2004 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare In-Reply-To: <826C0E5E-1AD9-11D9-8144-003065F3CDDA@virgin.net> References: <6DAFD796-1AA8-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> <826C0E5E-1AD9-11D9-8144-003065F3CDDA@virgin.net> Message-ID: <286DC0E4-1AE1-11D9-BFB6-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> On 2004-Oct-10, at 17:29, Jeremy Dronfield wrote: > The reason for this is a UK government directive under which > government departments must use ready-made commercial solutions > wherever available - to "cut costs". Then one problem is that someone misidentified the ship's software as a separate component, rather than something integral to the system. Is anyone demanding that the Eurofighter's avionics run "off the shelf" software? Stefano From jeremy.dronfield at virgin.net Sun Oct 10 10:38:31 2004 From: jeremy.dronfield at virgin.net (Jeremy Dronfield) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare In-Reply-To: <286DC0E4-1AE1-11D9-BFB6-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> References: <6DAFD796-1AA8-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> <826C0E5E-1AD9-11D9-8144-003065F3CDDA@virgin.net> <286DC0E4-1AE1-11D9-BFB6-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <33FD0BEE-1AE3-11D9-8144-003065F3CDDA@virgin.net> On 10 Oct 2004, at 6:23 pm, Stefano Mori wrote: > > On 2004-Oct-10, at 17:29, Jeremy Dronfield wrote: > >> The reason for this is a UK government directive under which >> government departments must use ready-made commercial solutions >> wherever available - to "cut costs". > > Then one problem is that someone misidentified the ship's software as > a separate component, rather than something integral to the system. > > Is anyone demanding that the Eurofighter's avionics run "off the > shelf" software? It wouldn't surprise me, if this article is true. Regards, Jeremy From joar at joar.com Sun Oct 10 10:59:45 2004 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Process monitoring tools? Message-ID: <2B1CA5F0-1AE6-11D9-A17E-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Hi, I would like to be able to generate a report on the processes running on a Mac OS X machine. The report should contain at least the CPU time consumed (preferably as a delta since the last generated report) and the user name of the process owner. I would guess that there is already some UNIX tool that can help me with this, but I've not been able to find one. "top" is close, but it only lists active processes as far as I can tell - and I would like to be able to see statistics for everything that's been run during a period of time (daily, weekly, et.c.), and not only the ones that happen to be running when the report is generated. Any ideas? If there are no such tools available, I would also appreciate any hints on what system framework / service I should use if I would have to write my own (sysctl seems a good place to start?). I'm trying to do something similar for network usage, and have found two tools: ntop and darkstat. Darkstat is nice in that it seems to be self contained wrt. external libraries - or at least it doesn't seem to need anything that isn't already installed with Mac OS X. Darkstat has a web interface, which is kind of nice - but I would prefer a simple text report... j o a r From johnl at johnlabovitz.com Sun Oct 10 12:12:54 2004 From: johnl at johnlabovitz.com (John Labovitz) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Process monitoring tools? In-Reply-To: <2B1CA5F0-1AE6-11D9-A17E-000393D4AB70@joar.com> References: <2B1CA5F0-1AE6-11D9-A17E-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: <6382B8EA-1AF0-11D9-8EEC-000D93B0B74E@johnlabovitz.com> On Oct 10, 2004, at 10:59 AM, j o a r wrote: > I would like to be able to generate a report on the processes running > on a Mac OS X machine. [...] I would like to be able to see statistics > for everything that's been run during a period of time (daily, weekly, > et.c.), and not only the ones that happen to be running when the > report is generated. You'll want to look into BSD process accounting. Look at the manpages for "accton" and "lastcomm". Here's a quick setup (I just figured this out, so there may be gotchas): # set up accounting % sudo mkdir /var/accounting % sudo touch /var/accounting/acct # turn on accounting % sudo accton /var/accounting/acct (...do some stuff...) # see what happened % sudo lastcomm # turn accounting off % sudo accton If "lastcomm" doesn't give you the right info or in the right format, then you'll want to write a tool yourself (or find another). See the manpage for "acct" for the file format. Note that process accounting will have to be enabled first, so you can't use this method on an arbitrary Mac that's been running for a while. Best choice is probably to write a startup script that will enable process accounting and install that on whichever Macs you need to monitor. > I'm trying to do something similar for network usage, and have found > two tools: ntop and darkstat. Darkstat is nice in that it seems to be > self contained wrt. external libraries - or at least it doesn't seem > to need anything that isn't already installed with Mac OS X. Darkstat > has a web interface, which is kind of nice - but I would prefer a > simple text report... I don't know about other tools, but I'm pretty sure you can set up the built-in packet filtering rules to save statistics, which might be info you can use. The firewall uses the packet-filtering rules, but I don't think you'd necessarily have to enable the firewall itself to get this info. Hope this helps. -- John Labovitz Consulting, LLC http://mac.johnlabovitz.com johnl@johnlabovitz.com AIM/iChat: jslabovitz +1 503.949.3492 From joar at joar.com Sun Oct 10 13:19:30 2004 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Process monitoring tools? In-Reply-To: <6382B8EA-1AF0-11D9-8EEC-000D93B0B74E@johnlabovitz.com> References: <2B1CA5F0-1AE6-11D9-A17E-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <6382B8EA-1AF0-11D9-8EEC-000D93B0B74E@johnlabovitz.com> Message-ID: On 2004-10-10, at 21.12, John Labovitz wrote: > You'll want to look into BSD process accounting. Look at the manpages > for "accton" and "lastcomm". That's a great tip! Unfortunately, it seems that acct only collects info on processes that runs to completion, meaning that it will not give any info on the many "always on" system daemons. What to do, what to do... I guess I'll have to continue my quest... :) j o a r From hEADcRASH at aGGROcULTURE.com Sun Oct 10 14:59:49 2004 From: hEADcRASH at aGGROcULTURE.com (Glenn Sugden) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: The Sims 2... not available for the Mac?? In-Reply-To: References: <43546354-17E3-11D9-B555-000A959F7CDA@aGGROcULTURE.com> Message-ID: Thanks to everybody for the info! ::Glenn "I need another fix after Space Colony" Sugden From omnigroup at spacemoo.com Sun Oct 10 15:03:51 2004 From: omnigroup at spacemoo.com (Dieder Bylsma) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Remote upgrade from Jaguar to Panther etc. Message-ID: Anybody have an idea on how one could remotely upgrade using 'installer CLI' a system that has Panther installed, and upgrade it to Jaguar? I'd imagine it would be possible if the CD could be imaged and then auto-installed via installer and then rebooted, but I don't have a clue on how to do that unattended. Ideas? Dieder From chris at growl.info Sun Oct 10 15:09:23 2004 From: chris at growl.info (Christopher Forsythe) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Remote upgrade from Jaguar to Panther etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0AEDF65A-1B09-11D9-A66C-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> On Oct 10, 2004, at 5:03 PM, Dieder Bylsma wrote: > Panther installed, and upgrade it to Jaguar? > Ummm? You sure it wasn't the other way around? :D From hEADcRASH at aGGROcULTURE.com Sun Oct 10 15:13:59 2004 From: hEADcRASH at aGGROcULTURE.com (Glenn Sugden) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare In-Reply-To: <20041010114439.GA12772@Dark-Age.local> References: <20041010114439.GA12772@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: On Oct 10, 2004, at 4:44 AM, Eugene wrote: > If your stupid nation is stupid enough to depend on Windoze for your > military systems, your stupid nation deserves to lose. And if our stupid nation accidentally launched on your stupid nation... ...who would be the loser? ::Glenn "Everybody Loses" Sugden From omnigroup at spacemoo.com Sun Oct 10 15:16:59 2004 From: omnigroup at spacemoo.com (Dieder Bylsma) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Remote upgrade from Jaguar to Panther etc. In-Reply-To: <0AEDF65A-1B09-11D9-A66C-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> References: <0AEDF65A-1B09-11D9-A66C-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> Message-ID: >Ummm? You sure it wasn't the other way around? :D lol. ya, that's what I meant, as with the title. :) from 10.2.x to 10.3.x Dieder From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Sun Oct 10 15:38:23 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Process monitoring tools? In-Reply-To: References: <2B1CA5F0-1AE6-11D9-A17E-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <6382B8EA-1AF0-11D9-8EEC-000D93B0B74E@johnlabovitz.com> Message-ID: <20041010223823.GG17336@4321.tv> On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 10:19:30PM +0200, j o a r wrote: > >You'll want to look into BSD process accounting. Look at the manpages > >for "accton" and "lastcomm". > > That's a great tip! Unfortunately, it seems that acct only collects > info on processes that runs to completion, meaning that it will not > give any info on the many "always on" system daemons. What to do, what > to do... I guess I'll have to continue my quest... :) $ top -cd -l1 -ocpu -Otime | perl -ne 'print if /^\s*\d+/' | wc -l 86 $ ps -aux | wc -l 85 $ top -cd -l0 -ocpu -Otime -s10 > some_file It seems top and ps look at the same processes. Can you explain what you mean about the "only active processes" bit about top from your earlier email (I think that's what you said). -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From joar at joar.com Sun Oct 10 15:59:17 2004 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Process monitoring tools? In-Reply-To: <20041010223823.GG17336@4321.tv> References: <2B1CA5F0-1AE6-11D9-A17E-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <6382B8EA-1AF0-11D9-8EEC-000D93B0B74E@johnlabovitz.com> <20041010223823.GG17336@4321.tv> Message-ID: <03976473-1B10-11D9-A17E-000393D4AB70@joar.com> On 2004-10-11, at 00.38, Brian Medley wrote: > It seems top and ps look at the same processes. Can you explain > what you mean about the "only active processes" bit about top > from your earlier email (I think that's what you said). Say that I would like to see how much CPU time was spent by all "httpd" processes last week. I can't use "ps" or "top", as they will only return the statistics for the "httpd" processes currently running - but as "httpd" processes are recycled, this will not give me a complete overview of how much CPU time they collectively required last week. As John pointed out, I could probably use "acct" to collect stats for processes that terminate once in a while, but then how do I deal with processes that just keeps running, like "named", "mysqld" or the enigmatic "pitond". These processes can't be checked with "acct", but could be checked using regular "top" or "ps" - IFF I know that they've been running the whole time. There must be a tool to collect this type of information available already, right? If I'm the administrator for a server I would like to know how much resources are used, and by who. It seems such a natural thing to ask for, and such a typical UNIX task, that I'm surprised that I haven't found that tool already? j o a r From scott at maxify.com Sun Oct 10 15:54:12 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare In-Reply-To: <6DAFD796-1AA8-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> References: <6DAFD796-1AA8-11D9-BD31-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Message-ID: <4DCD7F21-1B0F-11D9-8AC8-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 10, 2004, at 3:37 AM, Markus Hitter wrote: >> List-relevant note: in the TV interview with the "combat-systems >> expert from the company designing the technology", the expert's own >> computers in the background were running Mac OS X. > > Not sure wether I'd use OS X either for such mission critical > applications. There are a lot of features in OS X which are great for > end users but hang the system on rare cases. Example: If you hit the > F11 key accidentally, your windows are gone until you recognize the > situation and fix it by pressing this key again. This is, of course, a non-issue because it can be disabled. And doesn't hang the system. But I agree off-the-shelf operating systems aren't appropriate for this type of thing. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From shoop at mac.com Sun Oct 10 16:44:43 2004 From: shoop at mac.com (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Piping cron output to mail? In-Reply-To: <5bbc0cd6041009152014ff6a59@mail.gmail.com> References: <5bbc0cd6041009152014ff6a59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: At 12:20 AM +0200 10/10/04, Jared Earle wrote: >On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 18:09:28 -0400, Dan Shoop wrote: >> At 10:20 AM -0700 10/9/04, Dieder Bylsma wrote: >> >I'd like to figger out a way to pipe the output of a cronjob to mail >> >(not 'Mail.app) and get it sent out directly instead of logged to a >> >file. This would not be mailed to a local user, but instead out to >> >an external email address. >> >> cron already supports this. It will send the log by email to the user >> who's crontab is executed. You can also set the environment variables >> in the crontab to reflect a different address. In this case you >> should investigate the MAILTO environment variable. > >*A* cronjob, *a* different user. If he'd asked for redirecting all >cronjobs, then I'd have mentioned the envs: > > In addition to LOGNAME, HOME, and SHELL, cron(8) will look at MAILTO if > it has any reason to send mail as a result of running commands in > ``this'' crontab. If MAILTO is defined (and non-empty), mail is sent to > the user so named. If MAILTO is defined but empty (MAILTO=""), no mail > will be sent. Otherwise mail is sent to the owner of the crontab. > >- man 5 crontab > >> In any event there's certainly no reason to pipe cron to mail. Nor >> would this be workable anyway. > >No, but you can pipe individual commands and there are several >perfectly valid reasons to do this. > >dhan, you know all this, I just think you misinterpreted his request. :) No I did not. Like all environment variables they are, well /variable/. The MAILTO environment variable can be changed before the affected entry and back again such as: SHELL=/bin/sh PATH=yadda:yadda MAILTO=primaryaddress@tld.gtld # 0 12 * * * root echo 'mail goes to primary address' # MAILTO=secondaryaddress@tld.gtld 0 13 * * * root echo 'mail goes to secondary address' # MAILTO=primaryaddress@tld.gtld # [...] Which *does* produce the desired result. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop shoop@iwiring.net Consulting Internet Architect shoop@mac.com AIM: iWiring http://www.iwiring.net/ Skype: danshoop http://www.ustsvs.com/ pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring designs and supports Internet systems and networks based on Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies and offers 24x7, guaranteed support to registered clients, at affordable rates. From shoop at mac.com Sun Oct 10 16:49:28 2004 From: shoop at mac.com (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:37 AM +0100 10/10/04, Jeremy Dronfield wrote: >My jaw landed in my lap when I saw this on television last night: > > > >How would you feel about your country's nuclear arsenal being >controlled by Windows 2000? Flee! Hide! The Windows EULA specifically prohibits use in nuclear facilities, critical health systems, and a wide array of other activities such as this. Yeah it may be a "cover your ass" clause for their lawyers, but if the company (MSFT) won't support these production operations, basic due diligence might say you shouldn't bet your life on them in such situations either. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop shoop@iwiring.net Consulting Internet Architect shoop@mac.com AIM: iWiring http://www.iwiring.net/ Skype: danshoop http://www.ustsvs.com/ pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring designs and supports Internet systems and networks based on Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies and offers 24x7, guaranteed support to registered clients, at affordable rates. From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Oct 10 18:26:28 2004 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9317429A-1B24-11D9-BEB9-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Oct 10, 2004, at 5:49 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > At 10:37 AM +0100 10/10/04, Jeremy Dronfield wrote: >> My jaw landed in my lap when I saw this on television last night: >> >> >> >> How would you feel about your country's nuclear arsenal being >> controlled by Windows 2000? Flee! Hide! > > The Windows EULA specifically prohibits use in nuclear facilities, > critical health systems, and a wide array of other activities such as > this. That is only the EULA for the non nuclear facilities version of Windows. Windows for Warfare (see old register articles) probably has a different EULA... There are off the shelf OSes that probably are good for this sort of thing. W2000 is definitely not one of them, but neither is Linux or OS X. What is the name of that unix microkernel proeuct (with uptimes in years). It is a commercial product and is probably, without doing any due diligence, a place to start looking Chad > > Yeah it may be a "cover your ass" clause for their lawyers, but if the > company (MSFT) won't support these production operations, basic due > diligence might say you shouldn't bet your life on them in such > situations either. > > -- > > -dhan > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > Dan Shoop > shoop@iwiring.net > Consulting Internet Architect > shoop@mac.com > AIM: iWiring > http://www.iwiring.net/ > Skype: danshoop > http://www.ustsvs.com/ > > pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B > > iWiring designs and supports Internet systems and networks based on > Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies and offers > 24x7, guaranteed support to registered clients, at affordable rates. > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From osx.rand at gmail.com Sun Oct 10 18:32:52 2004 From: osx.rand at gmail.com (rand) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Remote upgrade from Jaguar to Panther etc. In-Reply-To: References: <0AEDF65A-1B09-11D9-A66C-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> Message-ID: <7ea7adf004101018327b210146@mail.gmail.com> you can image the cd(s), copy them to your machine, mounting disk images when not logged in at the consol disktool -c `id -u -r $USER` Where the USER is the name of the user you are logged in with (usually). After that : hdid where foo.image is the path to your image. Then comes installing the .pkg or .mpkg files : sudo installer -verbose -pkg -target / you want the -verbose, it lets you know where the installer is up to, really useful if your installing something large. You have two choices, one is to install the system one package at a time (i did this once, it worked, and I think i did it in order that they were listed from ls). the other choice is try to run the overall ,mpkg installer and hopefully it will run all the installers on it's own. Or your could read the file Mac OS X Install Disc 1 -> System -> Installation -> Packages -> OSInstallCache.plist with a text editor and see what order they are installed in when installing them the proper way. This is how it is done, as to whether it's wise to do it, well, I'll leave that one alone :) cheers rand On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:16:59 -0700, Dieder Bylsma wrote: > >Ummm? You sure it wasn't the other way around? :D > > lol. > > ya, that's what I meant, as with the title. :) > > from 10.2.x to 10.3.x > > > Dieder > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From cibao at colibri.gotdns.org Sun Oct 10 18:42:05 2004 From: cibao at colibri.gotdns.org (Cibao Cu Ali G Colibri) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Any iSync-compatible phones sync (postal) addresses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 10, 2004, at 5:15 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > Howdy All, Howdy. =) > Do any of the iSync-compatible phone sync postal addresses? My Nokia 3650 syncs almost everything in a given contacts .vcf file. For example, for my .vcf in Address Book, my 3650 syncs: Home # Mobile # 5 e-mail addresses Street address Postal/Zip City State/Prov. Ctry./Reg URL Address Birthday Notes In that order. The only thing it doesn't sync, AFAIK, is any IM contact info. > I'd prefer something that was a phone not a full PDA-phone (i.e. not a > Palm device) primarily due to cost. Oh. Whoops. Sorry 'bout that. ;-) When I was shopping for a 'new' "Smartphone" to replace my (now aging) Palm-based Kyocera QCP-6035, I *specifically* wanted something that had good (if not excellent) iSync compatibility along with the other bells & whistles one would want in a multimedia smartphone (i.e. bluetooth). > Apple says they synch "Address Book" but my understanding of this is > that it usually means one phone number at worst, and a couple of phone > numbers and email addresses at best. I understand perfectly what you mean: I can't even begin to tell you how much time I spent staring at Apple's iSync compatibility chart: I ended-up reading literally dozens of end-user comments on the functionality of the half-dozen or so phones that I had narrowed my choice down to, and in the end, went with the phone that seemedd to offer the most in regards to iSync, Salling Clicker, and Bluetooth compatibilities. You see, I intended, from the beginning, to have a bluetooth 'remote control' for my Mac. Everything else was just gravy on the top. =) > For example, the SE T68i/T610/T630/K700i all sync only phone numbers > (and possibly an email as discussed above). That sucks. However, cost-wise, the 3650 is within the price range of those SE models you've listed. It's an 'older' (cough) Smartphone, so if you look around a bit I'm sure you can find decent deals online. I got mine for $211 US (including S&H) via Ebay, and there were better deals than that. I chose the auction that I ddid based upon the extras that came w/ my phone (a 256MB SD card+charger+manual+case). A quick search at Ebay.com.au shows this model going for between $50 and $389 AU. YMMV. > I guess it is probably asking too much for a phone's "address book" to > be more than phone numbers, but I thought I would just check. I'm surprised no-one else has chimed-in yet, but i hope my rambling diatribe was at least of some use to you. If nothing else, at lest now you know that at least one model of phone is capable of syncing a variety of multiple data entry fields. =) HTH -- Cibao Cu' Ali G. Colibri PowerMac G5 1x1.8 Ghz Mac OS X Panther 10.3.5 From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Oct 10 19:19:52 2004 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare In-Reply-To: References: <9317429A-1B24-11D9-BEB9-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <08E8F968-1B2C-11D9-BEB9-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Oct 10, 2004, at 7:53 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > > >> There are off the shelf OSes that probably are good for this sort of >> thing. W2000 is definitely not one of them, but neither is Linux or >> OS X. > > You might note there are hardened unix/linux derivatives. The NSA even > makes a nice secure distro. That is not all you need to control nuclear weapons. Not so much a question of "hardening" in my mind but reliability... I would hope that they wouldn't attach them to a net or public net that was not already ultra secure etc > >> What is the name of that unix microkernel proeuct (with uptimes in >> years). It is a commercial product and is probably, without doing >> any due diligence, a place to start looking > > A kernel alone won't give you an OS. The thing I am thinking of is a complete OS. I just mentioned micro-kernel to jog some memories, since it is based on that concept... The thing I was thinking of is QNX () Chad From mrhatken at mac.com Sun Oct 10 19:40:55 2004 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Any iSync-compatible phones sync (postal) addresses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Cibao (and List members), Thanks for an informative and most helpful reply to my post. I can't believe what a On 11/10/2004, at 9:42 AM, Cibao Cu Ali G Colibri wrote: > >> Do any of the iSync-compatible phone sync postal addresses? > > My Nokia 3650 syncs almost everything in a given contacts .vcf file. That's great. I'm getting the opinion here that to really sync well you need a "smart phone" (be it a PDA/phone or a phone with a real OS and applications, like Symbian). I have also (probably) been wrongly assuming that SonyErricson phones would be the best for iSync - it seems their (non-Symbian) phones are just as bad as most others. >> I'd prefer something that was a phone not a full PDA-phone (i.e. not >> a Palm device) primarily due to cost. > > Oh. Whoops. Sorry 'bout that. ;-) That's not really a problem. I don't know much about the Symbian OS, but I don't believe it is not as "open" or widely used a "computing platform" as the Palm or Pocket PC. I'm assuming Symbian is a powerful phone OS with some powerful core apps. Is that right? I assume I'd still need to use my Palm for note taking, time accounting, other apps etc. Also, some of these Symbian phones seem reasonable priced as well, compared for example with SE phones, which seem to only have the Symbian OS in their high-end phones(?). > When I was shopping for a 'new' "Smartphone" to replace my (now aging) > Palm-based Kyocera QCP-6035, I *specifically* wanted something that > had good (if not excellent) iSync compatibility along with the other > bells & whistles one would want in a multimedia smartphone (i.e. > bluetooth). Ok, maybe I am wrong - you replaced a Palm-based device with a Symbian-based device. That doesn't bid well for PalmSource. With regards to requirements (in order of priority) they are: 1. Best iSync 2. Good Sallings Clicker compatibility 3. Relatively small and cheap with good battery life 4. Reasonable phone (anything must be better than what I have now, see below) I pretty much only use the phone functionality for receiving business calls, the device will mainly be used as a combo PIM and Remote Control for my Mac laptop. I want it to be a phone that can provide most of the PIM information that my Palm PDA provides when I go out without the PDA. > I ended-up reading literally dozens of end-user comments on the > functionality of the half-dozen or so phones that I had narrowed my > choice down to, and in the end, went with the phone that seemedd to > offer the most in regards to iSync, Salling Clicker, and Bluetooth > compatibilities. You see, I intended, from the beginning, to have a > bluetooth 'remote control' for my Mac. Everything else was just gravy > on the top. =) I've done and are still doing the same. As you can see, your requirements were pretty much exactly the same as what I require (as specified above). The phone is almost (but not really) optional ;-) > However, cost-wise, the 3650 is within the price range of those SE > models you've listed. It's an 'older' (cough) Smartphone, so if you > look around a bit I'm sure you can find decent deals online. I got > mine for $211 US (including S&H) via Ebay, and there were better deals > than that. > I chose the auction that I ddid based upon the extras that came w/ my > phone (a 256MB SD card+charger+manual+case). A quick search at > Ebay.com.au shows this model going for between $50 and $389 AU. Yes, I checked, it looks like a good option. The only (minor) concerns I have are the size and that circular keypad ;-) Of course, my perfect solution would be a Treo 650, since I could replace the Palm Vx (still working really well) and the phone. However, it's not even out yet and I can't really justify the price (or replacing my Palm which I need for note taking at meetings). Considering I still have a Nokia 1610 brick (circa 1998?), I think I am due for an update, but probably will stay one (or two) generations behind the Treo 650. The next time I upgrade I will combine the full PDA with the phone (as per the Treo 650). Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com From mrhatken at mac.com Sun Oct 10 20:32:53 2004 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Any iSync-compatible phones sync (postal) addresses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3BF3E78E-1B36-11D9-8FF8-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> Oops, sorry, got distracted. On 11/10/2004, at 10:40 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > Thanks for an informative and most helpful reply to my post. I can't > believe what a difficult and confusing purchase a mobile phone is (at least for me, and I am reasonably technically savvy). Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com From shoop at mac.com Sun Oct 10 18:53:50 2004 From: shoop at mac.com (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare In-Reply-To: <9317429A-1B24-11D9-BEB9-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <9317429A-1B24-11D9-BEB9-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: At 7:26 PM -0600 10/10/04, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >On Oct 10, 2004, at 5:49 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > >>At 10:37 AM +0100 10/10/04, Jeremy Dronfield wrote: >>>My jaw landed in my lap when I saw this on television last night: >>> >>> >>> >>>How would you feel about your country's nuclear arsenal being >>>controlled by Windows 2000? Flee! Hide! >> >>The Windows EULA specifically prohibits use in nuclear facilities, >>critical health systems, and a wide array of other activities such >>as this. > >That is only the EULA for the non nuclear facilities version of >Windows. Windows for Warfare (see old register articles) probably >has a different EULA... I yes, I must have missed the Windows 2003 Nuclear Power Plant Edition and the Windows 2003 Critical Life Support service packs. ;) >There are off the shelf OSes that probably are good for this sort of >thing. W2000 is definitely not one of them, but neither is Linux or >OS X. You might note there are hardened unix/linux derivatives. The NSA even makes a nice secure distro. >What is the name of that unix microkernel proeuct (with uptimes in >years). It is a commercial product and is probably, without doing >any due diligence, a place to start looking A kernel alone won't give you an OS. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop shoop@iwiring.net Consulting Internet Architect shoop@mac.com AIM: iWiring http://www.iwiring.net/ Skype: danshoop http://www.ustsvs.com/ pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring designs and supports Internet systems and networks based on Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies and offers 24x7, guaranteed support to registered clients, at affordable rates. From izidor.jerebic at siol.net Mon Oct 11 01:35:33 2004 From: izidor.jerebic at siol.net (Izidor Jerebic) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Where does Mail store previous recipients? Message-ID: <84092F02-1B60-11D9-846C-000D93555FB0@siol.net> Hello! I have just moved to another computer and have selectively copied things from my previous home folder, to get rid of cruft that accumulated over years. I have everything working OK, it's just that the Mail doesn't remember any of my previous recipients. All other settings (rules, mailboxes, ...) are the same as before. I have copied ~/Library/Mail and ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.mail.plist from my old home. Anybody knows what else to copy or where to look? izidor From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Mon Oct 11 02:46:11 2004 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Windows warfare In-Reply-To: References: <20041010114439.GA12772@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <20041011094611.GB13002@Dark-Age.local> On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 03:13:59PM -0700, Glenn Sugden wrote: : : On Oct 10, 2004, at 4:44 AM, Eugene wrote: : : >If your stupid nation is stupid enough to depend on Windoze for your : >military systems, your stupid nation deserves to lose. : : And if our stupid nation accidentally launched on your stupid : nation... : : ...who would be the loser? We all lose. WWIII will begin. Let god sort it out. The only way to save the world is to kill Windoze. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From izidor.jerebic at siol.net Mon Oct 11 02:47:11 2004 From: izidor.jerebic at siol.net (Izidor Jerebic) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Where does Mail store previous recipients? SOLVED In-Reply-To: <84092F02-1B60-11D9-846C-000D93555FB0@siol.net> References: <84092F02-1B60-11D9-846C-000D93555FB0@siol.net> Message-ID: <8602C4F6-1B6A-11D9-B85B-000D93555FB0@siol.net> On Oct 11, 2004, at 10:35 AM, Izidor Jerebic wrote: > Hello! > > I have just moved to another computer and have selectively copied > things from my previous home folder, to get rid of cruft that > accumulated over years. > > I have everything working OK, it's just that the Mail doesn't remember > any of my previous recipients. All other settings (rules, mailboxes, > ...) are the same as before. > > I have copied ~/Library/Mail and > ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.mail.plist from my old home. > > Anybody knows what else to copy or where to look? > Well, thanks to a kind person I have found my previous recipients: they are stored in AddressBook database. I had to copy ~/Application Support/Address Book, too. Thanks, izidor From izidor.jerebic at siol.net Mon Oct 11 03:12:03 2004 From: izidor.jerebic at siol.net (Izidor Jerebic) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Mail.app rules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 10, 2004, at 7:41 AM, Toby Morris wrote: > Hi guys, > > sorry to be so pathetic but can someone point me in the right > direction - namely I would like Mail.app to save replies to a separate > folder so they are not lost when I empty trash. Tried Googling but at > the mo not having much luck > Define "replies". Your replies to others? Others replying to you? Somebody else replying to yet another? Generally, In Mail Preferences, there is a Rules section, where you can define your own rule and have an action, such as Move to Folder X, or Play Sound, or whatever, act on messages that match the rule. It is quite easy to setup rules... izidor From gkreme at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 10:08:43 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google ListKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <5bbc0cd604100911157500aec9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 20:38:46 +0100, Matt Johnston wrote: > On 9 Oct 2004, at 19:48, Google ListKreme wrote: > > After all, they are identical as far as the system is concerned. > > Not quite. As I infer, groups work off usernames, not UIDs. Ah, that is possible. I didn't consider groups. My understanding (and experience) is that only the UID matters to the system and if I login as fred and do something the system logs, it gets logged as bob. However, to be fair, it's been a long time since I tried this and discovered why it didn't work (or at least not work as I wanted it to). -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From pelorus at mac.com Mon Oct 11 10:14:17 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Symlinking home directory for multiple users? In-Reply-To: References: <440C5288-195A-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <72201207-19C7-11D9-89EB-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <5bbc0cd604100911157500aec9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11 Oct 2004, at 18:08, Google ListKreme wrote: > On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 20:38:46 +0100, Matt Johnston > wrote: >> On 9 Oct 2004, at 19:48, Google ListKreme wrote: > >>> After all, they are identical as far as the system is concerned. >> >> Not quite. As I infer, groups work off usernames, not UIDs. > > Ah, that is possible. I didn't consider groups. My understanding > (and experience) is that only the UID matters to the system But whether or not you are an "admin" of the system depends on the groups you have membership of. M From gkreme at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 10:25:29 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google ListKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Piping cron output to mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 18:09:28 -0400, Dan Shoop wrote: > In any event there's certainly no reason to pipe cron to mail. Nor > would this be workable anyway. 1) Yes, there is. 2) Yes, it is. -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From gkreme at gmail.com Mon Oct 11 10:31:44 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google ListKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Where does Mail store previous recipients? In-Reply-To: <84092F02-1B60-11D9-846C-000D93555FB0@siol.net> References: <84092F02-1B60-11D9-846C-000D93555FB0@siol.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:35:33 +0200, Izidor Jerebic wrote: > I have copied ~/Library/Mail and > ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.mail.plist from my old home. ~/Library/Caches/Mail perhaps? -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From shoop at mac.com Mon Oct 11 12:12:27 2004 From: shoop at mac.com (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Piping cron output to mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:25 AM -0600 10/11/04, Google ListKreme wrote: >On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 18:09:28 -0400, Dan Shoop wrote: >> In any event there's certainly no reason to pipe cron to mail. Nor >> would this be workable anyway. > >1) Yes, there is. Why? It already has a mail facility. >2) Yes, it is. To pipe the cron itself? Perhaps you mean the task or subtasks. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop shoop@iwiring.net Consulting Internet Architect shoop@mac.com AIM: iWiring http://www.iwiring.net/ Skype: danshoop http://www.ustsvs.com/ pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring designs and supports Internet systems and networks based on Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies and offers 24x7, guaranteed support to registered clients, at affordable rates. From scott at maxify.com Mon Oct 11 15:23:56 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Piping cron output to mail? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D6E8766-1BD4-11D9-9751-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 11, 2004, at 12:12 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: >>> In any event there's certainly no reason to pipe cron to mail. Nor >>> would this be workable anyway. >> >> 1) Yes, there is. > > Why? It already has a mail facility. > >> 2) Yes, it is. > > To pipe the cron itself? Perhaps you mean the task or subtasks. I believe Dieder was looking for a way to pipe the output of a specific, single task executed via cron to a different email address than the default. He got several answers to that. So unless we hear different from him, I think we can consider the issue resolved. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From das at doit.wisc.edu Mon Oct 11 17:41:48 2004 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Apple Remote Desktop 2.1 Message-ID: <8029F627-1BE7-11D9-ACE4-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> The Apple Remote Desktop Admin version 2.1 Update delivers enhanced functionality and improved reliability for Apple Remote Desktop 2 and is recommended for all users of Apple Remote Desktop. Key enhancements include: ? Support for full screen mode when controlling and observing remote computers ? Support for controlling and observing remote computers with multiple monitors ? Support for mouse scroll wheel and right-click when controlling remote computers ? Support for computer restart for packages that require a restart ? Improved reporting of output for the Send UNIX command ? Improved printing of hardware and software reports ? Improved remote data collection ? Improved file copy for files on networked home directories ? Enhanced column sorting in Administration application For detailed information on this Update, please visit this website: http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n108086 http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/appleremotedesktop21admin.html From jonathanballard at mac.com Mon Oct 11 18:50:17 2004 From: jonathanballard at mac.com (Jonathan G. Ballard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme Message-ID: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> I've successfully avoided having to deal with WiFi, thinking it would always be easier to run wires. Now I've changed my mind and find myself way behind the curve. All I want to do is connect my cable modem to my G5, G4 (DP 500Mhz), and my 1st gen. iBook (which will probably be replaced within the next year or so). I've looked at the Linksys Wireless G, the Netgear WGR614, and the Airport Extreme base station. I can get the Linksys for ~$80, but I've read they don't "officially" support Macs. Then again, I've been using one of their wired routers for over a year without official support. I can get the NetGear for ~$40 at Amazon, and it appears they support Mac OS X. So is there any reason, other than cool looks and seemless integration, that I should spend $200 on the AirPort? I can't figure out why it could be worth $160 more. J.G.B. From bmw at borderware.com Mon Oct 11 19:27:53 2004 From: bmw at borderware.com (Bruce Walker) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> Message-ID: <416B4128.6020008@borderware.com> Jonathan G. Ballard wrote: > > I can get the Linksys for ~$80, but I've read they don't "officially" > support Macs. Then again, I've been using one of their wired routers > for over a year without official support. I can get the NetGear for > ~$40 at Amazon, and it appears they support Mac OS X. So is there any > reason, other than cool looks and seemless integration, that I should > spend $200 on the AirPort? > > I can't figure out why it could be worth $160 more. > Airport Extreme base station is fully integrated with Mac OS X, including Rendezvous and management tools. Plus something I've found is that the Apple stuff supports WPA encryption well, and support for that in other products is spotty. On the negative side, the built-in antenna is tiny and limits the range you can get. On the other hand, I went for a Linksys WAP54G (access point) myself. As you see, it's cheap. It works well with Airport Extreme cards because it uses the Broadcom chipset, same as Apple uses. That's really important in the WiFi world if you want the best distance, bitrate and lowest error rate. The dual attached antennae run in diversity mode and get you great distance at a good bitrate. I ran the WAP54G with WPA encryption and my G4 Powerbook had no problem talking to it. But I ran into problems when I added anothe WAP54G as a client to another subnet. Linksys doesn't support WPA in wireless bridged or client mode, so I was forced to downgrade to WEP encryption--a move that makes me very nervous indeed! Netgear uses an Atheros chipset. These have had some reported issues with talking to Broadcom chips. I don't know if the support WPA encryption. From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Mon Oct 11 19:47:44 2004 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Mail.app rules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1798A1DE-1BF9-11D9-8D72-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> > Define "replies". > Your replies to others? Others replying to you? Somebody else replying > to yet another? > Generally, In Mail Preferences, there is a Rules section, where you > can define your own rule and have an action, such as Move to Folder X, > or Play Sound, or whatever, act on messages that match the rule. Is there a way you can set up rules to run on mail that *you* write, to sort it instead of it all going into "Sent Mail"? Or do I need to write a Perl script to mess with the mbox files themselves :) That, and the ability to group rules into logical groups (I have about 62 now, including a few 'Junk Mail' ones for mail that the normal Junk filter doesn't catch, probably 20 of which I don't need..) A lot of these are just to sort mail from various people into various folders, and email list rules. If I could group them into a "People" group and "Lists" group, it would help a *lot* getting rid of visual clutter when I want to organize them. BTW, I second the opinion expressed elsewhere - Why on Earth is this list set to reply-to-sender? Jim From shoop at mac.com Mon Oct 11 19:51:23 2004 From: shoop at mac.com (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> Message-ID: At 8:50 PM -0500 10/11/04, Jonathan G. Ballard wrote: >I've successfully avoided having to deal with WiFi, thinking it >would always be easier to run wires. Yeah, right ;) >Now I've changed my mind and find myself way behind the curve. > >All I want to do is connect my cable modem to my G5, G4 (DP 500Mhz), >and my 1st gen. iBook (which will probably be replaced within the >next year or so). I've looked at the Linksys Wireless G, the >Netgear WGR614, and the Airport Extreme base station. > >I can get the Linksys for ~$80, but I've read they don't >"officially" support Macs. They occasionally make use of web page interfaces that require ActiveX or other Windows evil crap. And if you call them and even hint "Mac" they go into shutdown mode. >Then again, I've been using one of their wired routers for over a >year without official support. I can get the NetGear for ~$40 at >Amazon, and it appears they support Mac OS X. So is there any >reason, other than cool looks and seemless integration, that I >should spend $200 on the AirPort? > >I can't figure out why it could be worth $160 more. Well it has four separate network segments instead of two or three, easier to configure software, works more reliably (it's easier for Linksys's to get into funky modes that Airport doesn't like, like preamble changes), has a USB print server, a dialup server, modem, supports Rendezvous, RADIUS, LEAP, external antennae, and it looks far cooler. The ABS also properly supports AOL and AIM. Linksys routers lately have been notorious for dropping AIM connections as they flush their NAT tables. It also does SPI, last I checked Linksys quietly removed this in their recent firmware releases rather than fix their somewhat broken implementation. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop shoop@iwiring.net Consulting Internet Architect shoop@mac.com AIM: iWiring http://www.iwiring.net/ Skype: danshoop http://www.ustsvs.com/ pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring designs and supports Internet systems and networks based on Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies and offers 24x7, guaranteed support to registered clients, at affordable rates. From scott at maxify.com Mon Oct 11 21:33:50 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: [Moderator] Re: Mail.app rules In-Reply-To: <1798A1DE-1BF9-11D9-8D72-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> References: <1798A1DE-1BF9-11D9-8D72-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: On Oct 11, 2004, at 7:47 PM, Jim Witte wrote: > BTW, I second the opinion expressed elsewhere - Why on Earth is this > list set to reply-to-sender? All Omni Group lists are set up this way so that broadcasting a response requires explicit action. Best Regards, - Scott From pelorus at mac.com Tue Oct 12 00:32:58 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> Message-ID: On 12 Oct 2004, at 02:50, Jonathan G. Ballard wrote: > I can get the NetGear for ~$40 at Amazon, and it appears they support > Mac OS X. Look at it feature for feature. The Negears are great little machines but I, for one, get tired of web interfaces frankly and their support for WPA is very spotty. It's actually worse if trying to use their own cards - their own client software not supporting WPA is kinda inexcusable. > So is there any reason, other than cool looks and seemless > integration, that I should spend $200 on the AirPort? > > I can't figure out why it could be worth $160 more. Is an Airport Express $200? It' certainly the monster to watch at the moment. The built-in printer sharing and the ease of setup are important to me. The music thing - well it's just gravy. From spoun at mac.com Tue Oct 12 05:05:56 2004 From: spoun at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ferenc_Farkas_M=C1TY=C1S?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Stopping Mail.app activity Message-ID: <12D3337D-1C47-11D9-B5FF-000A9576E324@mac.com> Hi list, I can bring up the Activity Viewer window by clicking the rotating wheel at the upper right corner ot the Message Viewer window, that's ok. But how can I stop a task that has a dimmed stop button? It says: [On My Mac] Synchronizing with file system Rebuilding table of contents... (8% done) The progress does not change for 4 hours ago. If I kill Mail, the mails i've read and sorted are gone of course. What does exactly the Rebuild Mailbox command do? I've erased all the table_of_contents and content_index files from find, for troubleshooting, but there are another files in the mbox, like: Incoming_Table_of_Contents, Info.plist, Incoming_Mail, .index.ready and of course the mbox file. Can I safely delete the others to to solve the problem? Thanks in advance... -- Regards, Ferenc Farkas M?TY?S From spoun at mac.com Tue Oct 12 05:24:44 2004 From: spoun at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ferenc_Farkas_M=C1TY=C1S?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Stopping Mail.app Activity Message-ID: Hi list, I can bring up the Activity Viewer window by clicking the rotating wheel at the upper right corner ot the Message Viewer window, that's ok. But how can I stop a task that has a dimmed stop button? It says: [On My Mac] Synchronizing with file system Rebuilding table of contents... (8% done) The progress does not change for 4 hours ago. If I kill Mail, the mails i've read and sorted are gone of course. What does exactly the Rebuild Mailbox command do? I've erased all the table_of_contents and content_index files from find, for troubleshooting, but there are another files in the mbox, like: Incoming_Table_of_Contents, Info.plist, Incoming_Mail, .index.ready and of course the mbox file. Can I safely delete the others to to solve the problem? Thanks in advance... -- Regards, Ferenc Farkas M?TY?S From Piers.Walter at ilink.de Tue Oct 12 06:14:40 2004 From: Piers.Walter at ilink.de (Piers Uso Walter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Stopping Mail.app activity In-Reply-To: <12D3337D-1C47-11D9-B5FF-000A9576E324@mac.com> References: <12D3337D-1C47-11D9-B5FF-000A9576E324@mac.com> Message-ID: On 12. Okt 2004, at 08:05, Ferenc Farkas M?TY?S wrote: > The progress does not change for 4 hours ago. If I kill Mail, the > mails i've read and sorted are gone of course. What does exactly the > Rebuild Mailbox command do? I've erased all the table_of_contents and > content_index files from find, for troubleshooting, but there are > another files in the mbox, like: Incoming_Table_of_Contents, > Info.plist, Incoming_Mail, .index.ready and of course the mbox file. > > Can I safely delete the others to to solve the problem? mbox, Incoming_Mail: You should not delete these files. mbox contains all the e-mails in the mailbox that have already been parsed and indexed by Mail.app, Incoming_Mail contains those e-mails that have not yet been parsed and indexed. content_index, .index.ready Deleting these files should be harmless (they should be rebuilt by Mail.app the next time you open this mailbox). Info.plist: If you delete Info.plist, you'll lose some settings of this mailbox (e.g. sort order, organize by threads, ...). Otherwise this should be harmless. table_of_contents: I am not sure about table_of_contents, but I think that this is where Mail.app keeps the information associated with the e-mails in the mailbox (e.g. read/unread, marked as flagged, etc.). Loosing this information might be undesirable. Incoming_Table_of_Contents: You should be able to delete Incoming_Table_of_Contents (which probably contains the results of the processing of Incoming_Mail before they are merged into table_of_contents). As such, it should be rebuilt by Mail.app the next time you open this mailbox. All of this pertains to POP mailboxes only, I don't know if it also holds true for IMAP mailboxes. With kind regards Piers -- Piers Uso Walter ilink Kommunikationssysteme GmbH From mrhatken at mac.com Tue Oct 12 07:36:45 2004 From: mrhatken at mac.com (Ashley Aitken) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: What is Apple? Message-ID: <23FB0FD0-1C5C-11D9-A89B-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> Howdy All, This is what Apple and Mac (hardware, software, third-party products) means to me (and, oh yeah, Steve Whats-His-Name) > It's because when you buy our products, and three months later you > get stuck on something, you quickly figure out [how to get past it]. > And you think, "Wow, someone over there at Apple actually thought of > this!" And then three months later you try to do something you hadn't > tried before, and it works, and you think "Hey, they thought of that, > too." And then six months later it happens again. There's almost no > product in the world that you have that experience with, but you have > it with a Mac. And you have it with an iPod. The whole article is here (if you haven't already seen it): And this is interesting too: > Not everyone knows it, but three months after I came back to Apple, > my chief operating guy quit. I couldn't find anyone internally or > elsewhere that knew as much as he did, or as I did. So I did that job > for nine months before I found someone I saw eye-to-eye with, and that > was Tim Cook. And he has been here ever since. > > Of course, I didn't tell anyone because I already had two jobs [CEO > of Apple and of movie maker Pixar Animation Studios (PIXR )] and > didn't want people to worry about whether I could handle three [jobs]. > But after Tim came on board, we basically reinvented the logistics of > the PC business. We've been doing better than Dell (DELL ) [in terms > of some metrics such as inventory] for five years now! And this: > When I got back here, Apple had forgotten who we were. Remember that > "Think Different" ad campaign we ran [featuring great innovators from > Einstein to Muhammad Ali to Ghandi]. It was certainly for customers to > some degree, but it was even more for Apple itself. > > You can tell a lot about a person by who his or her heroes are. That > ad was to remind us of who our heroes are and who we are. We forgot > that for a while. Companies sometimes forget who they are. Sometimes > they remember again, and sometimes they don't. Quite inspiring (for me, at least). Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia mrhatken at mac dot com From lists at toddwarfel.com Tue Oct 12 07:37:23 2004 From: lists at toddwarfel.com (Todd Warfel) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> Message-ID: <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> Well, I've tried LinkSys, Netgear, and Airport Extreme (and Express). Now, I'm running a Netgear router with an Airport Extreme as the main unit and an Airport Express as a secondary access point and streaming music point to my stereo in the living room. The biggest reason I chose the Airport Extreme over Linksys or Netgear is integration and reliability. The Netgear unit kept dropping out for no apparent reason. The Web-based interface is decent, but doesn't compare to the Airport Admin Tools. Plus, I like being able to easily import/export limited access files - our network is locked down using 128bit WEP and limited access based on Mac address, all machines run a firewall, and the whole network is behind a firewall. I'm not too worried about getting hacked. In short, the AE models are easier to use, easier to setup, and have good reliability. It's worth an extra $40-50 for me. On Oct 11, 2004, at 9:50 PM, Jonathan G. Ballard wrote: > I can get the Linksys for ~$80, but I've read they don't "officially" > support Macs. Then again, I've been using one of their wired routers > for over a year without official support. I can get the NetGear for > ~$40 at Amazon, and it appears they support Mac OS X. So is there any > reason, other than cool looks and seemless integration, that I should > spend $200 on the AirPort? Cheers! Todd R. Warfel Partner, Design and Usability Specialist MessageFirst | making products easier to use -------------------------------------- Contact Info voice: (607) 339-9640 email: twarfel@messagefirst.com web: www.messagefirst.com aim: twarfel@mac.com -------------------------------------- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. From michaelacrawford at mac.com Tue Oct 12 08:06:21 2004 From: michaelacrawford at mac.com (Michael A. Crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Anyone know how to combine SSH and AFP for a secure remote disk share? Message-ID: <470F2F77-1C60-11D9-89FA-000A95BAABE6@mac.com> When I connect my laptop to my server's AFP share I get a dialog saying that it cannot connect using SSH. It then allows me to connect with 'reduced security', which works, but I'd like not to run in the open. -Michael From das at doit.wisc.edu Tue Oct 12 08:32:47 2004 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Anyone know how to combine SSH and AFP for a secure remote disk share? In-Reply-To: <470F2F77-1C60-11D9-89FA-000A95BAABE6@mac.com> References: <470F2F77-1C60-11D9-89FA-000A95BAABE6@mac.com> Message-ID: Foe what it's worth, the username/password exchange is secure. The only thing that's "insecure" is the data itself. So unless you're worried about someone sniffing your Word documents or MP3s, or you have critical confidential/secret or personal/financial data that you access on the server that must be protected, you don't need to worry about SSH, because the username/password exchange is secure. Also, AFP over SSH is only supported by Mac OS X Server, though this whitepaper describes how to do it between any two machines: http://www.corsaire.com/white-papers/040622-securing-mac-os-x.pdf - Dave On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:06 AM, Michael A. Crawford wrote: > When I connect my laptop to my server's AFP share I get a dialog > saying that it cannot connect using SSH. It then allows me to connect > with 'reduced security', which works, but I'd like not to run in the > open. > > -Michael > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From rosyna at unsanity.com Tue Oct 12 11:11:41 2004 From: rosyna at unsanity.com (Rosyna) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Office 2004 SP1 is out Message-ID: The font menu actually works now. Who would have thunk it? ;-) More info here: I had to get the URL off a Windows News site (neowin.net). Sad... -- Sincerely, Rosyna Keller Technical Support/Holy Knight/Always needs a hug Unsanity: Unsane Tools for Insanely Great People From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Oct 12 11:32:52 2004 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Reply-To-List Mail.app command, accelerator keys for Mac Message-ID: <20B424A8-1C7D-11D9-9677-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> At other times on this list, I've said that it would be nice in Mail has a "Reply to Sender"/"Reply to list combinatition-command Cmd-(Shift)-R - user switchable preference. Another way would be to set the "Cmd-R" command in that set to whatever the mail header specifies, and the Shift modifier would shift it to the other. Then there would still be conscious effort (a little, hitting the shift key) involved in doing the opposite of what the list 'intended'. On the other hand, that goes against the grain that "interfaces should not change arbitrarily" (like MS Office's "self-adjusting menus" do - uugh. Never used them much - they might be useful, but it just seems horrible to me - of course, I rarely use the menus when I don't have to, preferring keyboard shortcuts) Which raises a possibility - why doesn't MacOSX support "accelerator" keys, so I can hit Cmd (or Cmd-Opt), then F for File, then N for new, like in Windows? It could be done in an elegant, sort of "hidden" way (the accelerators are only shown if, say, you hold down the key and explicitly open the menu, and then after a 0.5 delay - this is like the way the Newton does it - pops up the "Keyboard Equivalents" window after about 2 seconds - too long IMO, but that can change..) This behavior would of course be mentioned in the documentation, along with how to show what they are. This would of course benefit switchers from Windows, but I think power Mac-users might like it too - once they got over the "un-Mac-ness" of it. When I used a Windows machine (I did a lot when I was at a campus whose CS department was completely Windows-based), I found that I hardly used the mouse *at all*. And this was on Word, basically the same interface as the Mac - it was the abominable Word 6 or 7 where they wrote their own menu code.. (I generally used by own copy of Word 5) Jim From ian at SKYLIST.net Tue Oct 12 11:59:43 2004 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Reply-To-List Mail.app command, accelerator keys for Mac In-Reply-To: <20B424A8-1C7D-11D9-9677-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> References: <20B424A8-1C7D-11D9-9677-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: On Oct 12, 2004, at 1:32 PM, Jim Witte wrote: > At other times on this list, I've said that it would be nice in Mail > has a "Reply to Sender"/"Reply to list combinatition-command > Cmd-(Shift)-R - user switchable preference. Another way would be to > set the "Cmd-R" command in that set to whatever the mail header > specifies, and the Shift modifier would shift it to the other. Then > there would still be conscious effort (a little, hitting the shift > key) involved in doing the opposite of what the list 'intended'. There's no preference to change the default, but hitting Cmd-Shift-R will reply all instead of just the sender. > Which raises a possibility - why doesn't MacOSX support > "accelerator" keys, so I can hit Cmd (or Cmd-Opt), then F for File, > then N for new, like in Windows? It could be done in an elegant, sort > of "hidden" way (the accelerators are only shown if, say, you hold > down the key and explicitly open the menu, and then after a 0.5 delay > - this is like the way the Newton does it - pops up the "Keyboard > Equivalents" window after about 2 seconds - too long IMO, but that can > change..) You can turn on "Full Keyboard Access" in the keyboard tab of the keyboard & mouse preference pane, or control-F1 will toggle it. With it on, control-F2 will select the menu bar, control-F3 will select the dock, control-F4 rotates through windows, control-F5 will select the toolbar of the active window. Once one of those things has been selected, you can use the arrow keys, tab, and the spacebar to move through items and select things. That lets you control almost anything in the interface using the keyboard. > > This behavior would of course be mentioned in the documentation, > along with how to show what they are. This would of course benefit > switchers from Windows, but I think power Mac-users might like it too > - once they got over the "un-Mac-ness" of it. Search for "Full keyboard access" in the help application. Ian From shoop at mac.com Tue Oct 12 12:01:32 2004 From: shoop at mac.com (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> Message-ID: At 10:37 AM -0400 10/12/04, Todd Warfel wrote: >I like being able to easily import/export limited access files - our >network is locked down using 128bit WEP and limited access based on >Mac address, all machines run a firewall, and the whole network is >behind a firewall. I'm not too worried about getting hacked. There as still some glaring holes in that architecture. WEP is not secure and easily defeated. MAC addresses can be easily spoofed, as can IP addresses. The WAN firewall doesn't protect you from wireless intruders. The firewalling on the individual machines is nice, but if I'm already spoofing one of your machines I can just pass thru as them. Fact is WiFi should always be considered an insecure network segment. Where it connects to your LAN it should also be firewalled. Systems on the WiFi segment should be considered to be public/unprotected. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop shoop@iwiring.net Consulting Internet Architect shoop@mac.com AIM: iWiring http://www.iwiring.net/ Skype: danshoop http://www.ustsvs.com/ pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring designs and supports Internet systems and networks based on Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies and offers 24x7, guaranteed support to registered clients, at affordable rates. From pelorus at mac.com Tue Oct 12 12:25:30 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> Message-ID: <7AFA01A5-1C84-11D9-B300-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 12 Oct 2004, at 20:01, Dan Shoop wrote: > WEP is not secure and easily defeated. Not casually. Not "easily". Like most things, it requires knowhow and kit. > MAC addresses can be easily spoofed, as can IP addresses. Not casually. Again, kit and knowhow (to find out what to spoof) > The WAN firewall doesn't protect you from wireless intruders. > The firewalling on the individual machines is nice, but if I'm already > spoofing one of your machines I can just pass thru as them. He does say he's not too worried about being hacked. > Fact is WiFi should always be considered an insecure network segment. > Where it connects to your LAN it should also be firewalled. Systems on > the WiFi segment should be considered to be public/unprotected. I agree with this. Wireless was invented to create sales of VPN concentrators. We run our wireless wide open. Utterly. Saves the bother of hackers... M From gkreme at gmail.com Tue Oct 12 12:33:04 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google ListKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:51:23 -0400, Dan Shoop wrote: > At 8:50 PM -0500 10/11/04, Jonathan G. Ballard wrote: > >I can get the Linksys for ~$80, but I've read they don't > >"officially" support Macs. > > They occasionally make use of web page interfaces that require > ActiveX or other Windows evil crap. Yep, this is a point well worht considering. I finally had to take a D-Link to a PC, configure it, and bring it back. The webface MOSTLY worked on the mac, except for setting a password or completing the 'wizard." The latter was not a problem as the wizard sucked, but this WAP was going into an office where it had to have password and it was impossible to do it via a non-PC. > Well it has four separate network segments instead of two or three, > easier to configure software, works more reliably (it's easier for > Linksys's to get into funky modes that Airport doesn't like, like > preamble changes), has a USB print server, a dialup server, modem, > supports Rendezvous, RADIUS, LEAP, external antennae, and it looks > far cooler. I find I have to reset my WAP's every week or so or they go into a very odd deaf mode where all current connections continue to work, but no new connections can be established. The Basestation is a better product, but it is a lot more expensive. How much is your time worth (mine is not worth that much, sadly :). As for security, my own wireless network is intentionally wide open. I run Macs, I'm not worried about crackers when there are millions of PCs out there. -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From sanguish at digifix.com Tue Oct 12 13:34:38 2004 From: sanguish at digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> Message-ID: <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:01 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > Fact is WiFi should always be considered an insecure network segment. > Where it connects to your LAN it should also be firewalled. Systems on > the WiFi segment should be considered to be public/unprotected. > On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:01 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: Fact is WiFi should always be considered an insecure network segment. Where it connects to your LAN it should also be firewalled. Systems on the WiFi segment should be considered to be public/unprotected. ??? If only the Airport Extreme supported VPN natively.? ???? From sanguish at digifix.com Tue Oct 12 13:35:54 2004 From: sanguish at digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> Message-ID: <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:33 PM, Google ListKreme wrote: > As for security, my own wireless network is intentionally wide open.? > I run Macs, I'm not worried about crackers when there are millions of > PCs out there. > On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:33 PM, Google ListKreme wrote: As for security, my own wireless network is intentionally wide open.? I run Macs, I'm not worried about crackers when there are millions of PCs out there. ??? You don't need to worry about crackers perhaps (and that's a big perhaps), but you're positioning yourself as a prime injector for SPAM and general lack of privacy. ???? From jer at mia.net Tue Oct 12 13:42:01 2004 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> Message-ID: <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Is there any way to speed up Mail.App? It is POKEY.. and it is getting Pokier... I have some folders with 35k + messages.. What can I do to make this program faster? It takes forever to move between folders.. Also, when it is checking mail while I am writing a message, I might as well take a break for a while because everything grinds to a halt, and keystrokes are non-existent until it stops checking mail. Anyone? Thanx. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From seiryu at comcast.net Tue Oct 12 14:01:46 2004 From: seiryu at comcast.net (Nick Zitzmann) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: On Oct 12, 2004, at 2:42 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > I have some folders with 35k + messages.. What can I do to make this > program faster? It takes forever to move between folders.. Please don't completely change the subject of an existing thread! Are you using POP3 or IMAP? If you're using the latter, then Mail is limited to the speed of your IMAP connection. If it's slow, then Mail will be slow. I have never had a problem with Mail's offline speeds, but I have seen Mail grind to a halt on a ridiculously slow IMAP connection in the past. Nick Zitzmann S/MIME signature available upon request "I own a timber company? That's news to me. Want some wood?" - George W. Bush, part-owner of timber company LSTF, LLC (October 8, 2004) From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Oct 12 12:43:42 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Reply-To-List Mail.app command, accelerator keys for Mac In-Reply-To: References: <20B424A8-1C7D-11D9-9677-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: at 2004-10-12, 1:59 PM -0500, they whom i call Ian Ragsdale wrote: > Once one of those things has been selected, you can use the arrow >keys, tab, and the spacebar to move through items and select things. and typing any letter moves to the menu item alphabetically closest -- steve harley From joar at joar.com Tue Oct 12 14:04:49 2004 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:36 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <5AB86412-1C92-11D9-A51A-000393D4AB70@joar.com> On 2004-10-12, at 22.42, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > Is there any way to speed up Mail.App? It is POKEY.. and it is > getting Pokier... Compared to some other email client that is faster on the same HW+OS combination? > I have some folders with 35k + messages.. What can I do to make this > program faster? It takes forever to move between folders.. Get a faster machine? Split up your mailboxes? Do you _really_ need too keep the whole mailing list archive (?) in one folder? Why not move all but the last few thousand messages to a backup folder? j o a r From shoop at mac.com Tue Oct 12 14:28:36 2004 From: shoop at mac.com (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <7AFA01A5-1C84-11D9-B300-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <7AFA01A5-1C84-11D9-B300-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: At 8:25 PM +0100 10/12/04, Matt Johnston wrote: >On 12 Oct 2004, at 20:01, Dan Shoop wrote: > >>WEP is not secure and easily defeated. > >Not casually. Not "easily". Like most things, it requires knowhow and kit. > >>MAC addresses can be easily spoofed, as can IP addresses. > >Not casually. Again, kit and knowhow (to find out what to spoof) Both are pretty easy and can be done rather causally. I was suprised by the number of people at last year's O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference who were sniffing and probing and capturing passwords. >>The WAN firewall doesn't protect you from wireless intruders. >>The firewalling on the individual machines is nice, but if I'm >>already spoofing one of your machines I can just pass thru as them. > >He does say he's not too worried about being hacked. Yes, sounded to me like he made this statement based on his use of WEP, firewalling, et al. As such if that was the basis than this is demonstrably not the case. That is it sounded like he wasn't too concerned about being "hacked"(*) because he had put measures in place. But I see what you're suggesting, maybe he's in a really low risk environment like someplace where there aren't any people. (*) A mis-use of the word -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop shoop@iwiring.net Consulting Internet Architect shoop@mac.com AIM: iWiring http://www.iwiring.net/ Skype: danshoop http://www.ustsvs.com/ pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring designs and supports Internet systems and networks based on Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies and offers 24x7, guaranteed support to registered clients, at affordable rates. From scott at maxify.com Tue Oct 12 15:01:43 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Office 2004 SP1 is out In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC65CA8-1C9A-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 12, 2004, at 11:11 AM, Rosyna wrote: > I had to get the URL off a Windows News site (neowin.net). Sad... Sad? - Scott From joar at joar.com Tue Oct 12 15:15:37 2004 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Office 2004 SP1 is out In-Reply-To: <4DC65CA8-1C9A-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <4DC65CA8-1C9A-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <3EDB784E-1C9C-11D9-A51A-000393D4AB70@joar.com> On 2004-10-13, at 00.01, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> I had to get the URL off a Windows News site (neowin.net). Sad... > Sad? When Rosyna posted the URL to the list there was still no download link available from Mactopia - one might have expected to be able to find it there first, right? The link is up now though. j o a r From jonathanballard at mac.com Tue Oct 12 15:18:22 2004 From: jonathanballard at mac.com (Jonathan G. Ballard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> Message-ID: On Oct 12, 2004, at 2:32 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > > On 12 Oct 2004, at 02:50, Jonathan G. Ballard wrote: >> So is there any reason, other than cool looks and seemless >> integration, that I should spend $200 on the AirPort? >> >> I can't figure out why it could be worth $160 more. > > Is an Airport Express $200? > > It' certainly the monster to watch at the moment. The built-in printer > sharing and the ease of setup are important to me. The music thing - > well it's just gravy. An Airport Extreme is $200. An Express is $120. With my limited needs, perhaps the Express is the way to go. That way I can justify spending a little bit more money and get the benefit of using Apple's software integration. This brings up a related question, is there a way to add "Extreme" 802.11g networking to a G4 DP500? I know I can use the built-in AirPort card, but are there other solutions, such as PCI? But then again, I'm dealing with non-Apple products. Too bad I can't use the Airport Extreme card, which is cheaper and faster, in the old G4. Now I'm leaning towards Airport Express, but have to go compare specs. Thanks to all who have replied. My ignorance is lessening! J.G.B. From jer at mia.net Tue Oct 12 16:11:02 2004 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: ? What? On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:42 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > Is there any way to speed up Mail.App? It is POKEY.. and it is > getting Pokier... > > I have some folders with 35k + messages.. What can I do to make this > program faster? It takes forever to move between folders.. > > > Also, when it is checking mail while I am writing a message, I might > as well take a break for a while because everything grinds to a halt, > and keystrokes are non-existent until it stops checking mail. > > Anyone? > > Thanx. > > > > Regards, > Jeremy Anthony Kinsey > e-mail: jer@mia.net > ________________________________________________________ > Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net > 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com > Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com > Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com > Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From jer at mia.net Tue Oct 12 16:14:12 2004 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> On Oct 12, 2004, at 4:01 PM, Nick Zitzmann wrote: > > On Oct 12, 2004, at 2:42 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > >> I have some folders with 35k + messages.. What can I do to make this >> program faster? It takes forever to move between folders.. > > Please don't completely change the subject of an existing thread! If there is another thread with a similar subject, I would not know. I do not spend my time reading every message on this list. I did not change the subject of an existing thread, I simply created a new message and sent it to the list.. If there is another one out there, then it is purely coincidental. > > Are you using POP3 or IMAP? If you're using the latter, then Mail is > limited to the speed of your IMAP connection. If it's slow, then Mail > will be slow. I have never had a problem with Mail's offline speeds, > but I have seen Mail grind to a halt on a ridiculously slow IMAP > connection in the past. Nope, no IMAP in use, these are all POP.. Mail.app just seems a bit slow.. By slow, I am not talking about the time it takes to check mail, I am talking about just moving from one directory/folder to the next, etc.. > > Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From seiryu at comcast.net Tue Oct 12 16:23:47 2004 From: seiryu at comcast.net (Nick Zitzmann) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: On Oct 12, 2004, at 5:14 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > If there is another thread with a similar subject, I would not know. > I do not spend my time reading every message on this list. I did not > change the subject of an existing thread, I simply created a new > message and sent it to the list.. If there is another one out there, > then it is purely coincidental. But you did - there was an In-reply-to header line in your original message, and it pointed directly to a message that had just been posted before yours. Mail only does that if you started a new message by replying to an existing message. > By slow, I am not talking about the time it takes to check mail, I am > talking about just moving from one directory/folder to the next, etc.. Sorry, I'm not sure what to tell you. I've never had a problem with Mail's speed... As someone else suggested, you could try splitting up your archive into multiple mailboxes, or if all else fails, you could try switching to Entourage or Mailsmith or something. Nick Zitzmann S/MIME signature available upon request "I own a timber company? That's news to me. Want some wood?" - George W. Bush, part-owner of timber company LSTF, LLC (October 8, 2004) From jer at mia.net Tue Oct 12 16:32:54 2004 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <0A9626D4-1CA7-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> My apologies, now I see the problem.. I tend to reply to an existing email of all my various lists to create a new email. To me, it IS new, because I changed the subject and the body of the message, ie., composed a new message. I have done this for nearly 10 years now, and NEVER had ANYONE complain.. Of course I now know why.. I understand that you all would like to see me click "NEW" and create a new message, then type in the list email address, subject and body of the message.. I really do not have the time for that, so I have always just clicked on an existing message, hit reply, and then changed the subject/body and away I went.. Now, thanks to the many on and off list complaints about this method of list posting has lead me to the understanding that this is one of the main reasons that Mail.App is so God awful slow!!!! Apparently Mail.App uses the message ID to organize each message by a certain thread, thus hi-lighting every message matching a particular message ID.. So when Jer goes and posts by replying to an existing thread, everyone else using Mail.App has a color on a message that does not belong.. Whoopie.. This is the reason the app is so SLOW!!! It has to mire through thousands of messages looking at message IDs and organizing each one such that every time you click on a message from a particular thread, all the other messages in the thread are shown.. Is there a way to shut this off??? I think that would solve most of my issues related to speed. Thank you! On Oct 12, 2004, at 4:01 PM, Nick Zitzmann wrote: > > On Oct 12, 2004, at 2:42 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > >> I have some folders with 35k + messages.. What can I do to make this >> program faster? It takes forever to move between folders.. > > Please don't completely change the subject of an existing thread! > > Are you using POP3 or IMAP? If you're using the latter, then Mail is > limited to the speed of your IMAP connection. If it's slow, then Mail > will be slow. I have never had a problem with Mail's offline speeds, > but I have seen Mail grind to a halt on a ridiculously slow IMAP > connection in the past. > > Nick Zitzmann > > S/MIME signature available upon request > > "I own a timber company? That's news to me. Want some wood?" - George > W. Bush, part-owner of timber company LSTF, LLC (October 8, 2004) > > Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From scott at maxify.com Tue Oct 12 16:29:19 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <8A93B436-1CA6-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 12, 2004, at 4:14 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >>> I have some folders with 35k + messages.. What can I do to make this >>> program faster? It takes forever to move between folders.. >> >> Please don't completely change the subject of an existing thread! > > If there is another thread with a similar subject, I would not know. > I do not spend my time reading every message on this list. I did not > change the subject of an existing thread, I simply created a new > message and sent it to the list.. If there is another one out there, > then it is purely coincidental. Replying to an existing message and replacing the Subject line does not make a new thread. Regardless of what the subject line reads, the message will be considered part of the same thread if you hit "Reply". Only when you choose "New" from the toolbar to create a new message are you actually creating a new thread. The difference is clear if you have threading turned on or are reading one of the archives of the list. Not creating a new message is inconsiderate to other list members because it makes the information harder to sift through. > By slow, I am not talking about the time it takes to check mail, I am > talking about just moving from one directory/folder to the next, etc.. The more mail you have, the more processing the application has to do and the slower it will be. Certain programs may be faster than others but there's no way around the basic principle that more data = slower. You can negate the effect a bit by splitting up your mail into more folders based on topic or other criteria Mail's rules system can help you do the filtering automatically. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From jer at mia.net Tue Oct 12 16:35:00 2004 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <5AB86412-1C92-11D9-A51A-000393D4AB70@joar.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <5AB86412-1C92-11D9-A51A-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: <55C0672C-1CA7-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> On Oct 12, 2004, at 4:04 PM, j o a r wrote: > > On 2004-10-12, at 22.42, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > >> Is there any way to speed up Mail.App? It is POKEY.. and it is >> getting Pokier... > > Compared to some other email client that is faster on the same HW+OS > combination? That helps.. Compared to Claris Emailer on OS9... Yes it is that bad > >> I have some folders with 35k + messages.. What can I do to make this >> program faster? It takes forever to move between folders.. > > Get a faster machine? Split up your mailboxes? Do you _really_ need > too keep the whole mailing list archive (?) in one folder? Why not > move all but the last few thousand messages to a backup folder? > > No, and I do not. However in my job I field thousands of emails on a weekly basis, not list emails mind you. It adds up... I have a dual proc G4 with 2GB or ram.. Me thinks that should be suffice... Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From lists at toddwarfel.com Tue Oct 12 16:35:14 2004 From: lists at toddwarfel.com (Todd Warfel) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> Message-ID: <5E064166-1CA7-11D9-8FB6-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> Wasn't that the 40bit? Of course, anything can be broken into, but we're taking most of the precautions we can. On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:01 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > WEP is not secure and easily defeated. Cheers! Todd R. Warfel Partner, Design and Usability Specialist MessageFirst | making products easier to use -------------------------------------- Contact Info voice: (607) 339-9640 email: twarfel@messagefirst.com web: www.messagefirst.com aim: twarfel@mac.com -------------------------------------- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. From shawnce at mac.com Tue Oct 12 16:45:45 2004 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: On Oct 12, 2004, at 4:14 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > > On Oct 12, 2004, at 4:01 PM, Nick Zitzmann wrote: > >> >> On Oct 12, 2004, at 2:42 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >> >>> I have some folders with 35k + messages.. What can I do to make this >>> program faster? It takes forever to move between folders.. >> >> Please don't completely change the subject of an existing thread! > > If there is another thread with a similar subject, I would not know. > I do not spend my time reading every message on this list. I did not > change the subject of an existing thread, I simply created a new > message and sent it to the list.. If there is another one out there, > then it is purely coincidental. Actually it sure looks like you picked a message from Scott Anguish, clicked reply-to-all, removed his address, and changed the subject line as a way to quickly populate the message with the list address. This results in the hijacking of an existing thread. How do I know... well the information is in the header (also the list address is worded as it was in Scott's email). Your message that started the "Mail.app still SLOW" thread contains the following in the header: In-reply-to: <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> This message id is for the following message from Scott: From sanguish@digifix.com Tue Oct 12 13:35:49 2004 [snip] Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:34:38 -0400 From: Scott Anguish Subject: Re: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme [snip] Message-id: <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> [snip] Additionally your message contains the following identifiers: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> Which all are part of the "Netgear vs. Airport Extreme" thread. -Shawn From scott at maxify.com Tue Oct 12 16:42:03 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <55C0672C-1CA7-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <5AB86412-1C92-11D9-A51A-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <55C0672C-1CA7-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <51CC6B69-1CA8-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 12, 2004, at 4:35 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >> Compared to some other email client that is faster on the same HW+OS >> combination? > > That helps.. Compared to Claris Emailer on OS9... Yes it is that bad You had 35k messages in Emailer and it was still fast? That program was much more capable than I had thought. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From rosyna at unsanity.com Tue Oct 12 16:53:48 2004 From: rosyna at unsanity.com (Rosyna) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Office 2004 SP1 is out In-Reply-To: <3EDB784E-1C9C-11D9-A51A-000393D4AB70@joar.com> References: <4DC65CA8-1C9A-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <3EDB784E-1C9C-11D9-A51A-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: Correct. And I couldn't find a single mac news site with the URL. No one had it. Just thought some place like MacUpdate, VT, or MacNN would have it first. Ack, at 10/13/04, j o a r said: >On 2004-10-13, at 00.01, Scott Stevenson wrote: > >>>I had to get the URL off a Windows News site (neowin.net). Sad... >>Sad? > >When Rosyna posted the URL to the list there was still no download >link available from Mactopia - one might have expected to be able to >find it there first, right? The link is up now though. -- Sincerely, Rosyna Keller Technical Support/Holy Knight/Always needs a hug Unsanity: Unsane Tools for Insanely Great People From scott at maxify.com Tue Oct 12 16:49:05 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <0A9626D4-1CA7-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <0A9626D4-1CA7-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <4D56CDF8-1CA9-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 12, 2004, at 4:32 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > I understand that you all would like to see me click "NEW" and create > a new message, then type in the list email address, subject and body > of the message.. I really do not have the time for that Really? Just hit command-N to make a new message, and Mail should auto-complete the email address as soon as you begin to type it (just hit tab). It might actually take you less time than going and erasing the subject and body of a reply. > This is the reason the app is so SLOW!!! It has to mire through > thousands of messages looking at message IDs and organizing each one > such that every time you click on a message from a particular thread, > all the other messages in the thread are shown.. You're talking about something slightly different. And I don't believe it's taking as much cpu time as you think. To see what the rest of us are seeing, enable threading with: View > Organize By Thread. If you think Mail is too slow compared to other mail programs with the same amount of email, you could just try another program. Best Regards, - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From scott at maxify.com Tue Oct 12 16:52:41 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <0A9626D4-1CA7-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <0A9626D4-1CA7-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: On Oct 12, 2004, at 4:32 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > My apologies, now I see the problem.. > > I tend to reply to an existing email of all my various lists to create > a new email. To me, it IS new, because I changed the subject and the > body of the message, ie., composed a new message. I have done this > for nearly 10 years now, and NEVER had ANYONE complain.. Of course I > now know why.. Here's another way to see the result: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.macosx.general Scroll down to the "Netgear vs. Airport Extreme" thread and you can see yours is listed of a subthread of that one. - Scott From shawnce at mac.com Tue Oct 12 17:02:38 2004 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <0A9626D4-1CA7-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <0A9626D4-1CA7-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <31B96A48-1CAB-11D9-AAEE-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Oct 12, 2004, at 4:32 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > I understand that you all would like to see me click "NEW" and create > a new message, then type in the list email address, subject and body > of the message.. I really do not have the time for that, so I have > always just clicked on an existing message, hit reply, and then > changed the subject/body and away I went.. You do realize that mail will auto complete email addresses for you, I just have to type 2 letters in the to field for Mail.app to popup the address for this list. It takes less time the hitting reply-to-all and adjusting the resulting addresses in my experience. FYI... I normally view email using threaded mode (love that mode now) so as a result of hijacking your new thread is grouped under the original thread which means if I was ignoring the thread I likely wouldn't see your message. > Apparently Mail.App uses the message ID to organize each message by a > certain thread, thus hi-lighting every message matching a particular > message ID.. So when Jer goes and posts by replying to an existing > thread, everyone else using Mail.App has a color on a message that > does not belong.. Whoopie.. This message id stuff is part of an RFC related to assist in proper message threading, so it makes sense for Mail.app to leverage this RFC. > This is the reason the app is so SLOW!!! It has to mire through > thousands of messages looking at message IDs and organizing each one > such that every time you click on a message from a particular thread, > all the other messages in the thread are shown.. You sure? What proof do you have that this is the source of your problem? Did you sample the application? It likely has a hand in this but how big? > Is there a way to shut this off??? I think that would solve most of > my issues related to speed. Under the "Viewing" preferences item I think you just unclick "Highligh related message using color" but I am not sure that turns of any of the indexing related to message ids. I have had a mailbox with just over 20,000 message get a little slow (2-4 seconds to fully list) on my G5 system but in my case I got this to improve (1-2 seconds) by rebuilding the mailbox (menu item on the "Mailbox" menu). Hoping between messages on my system even in large mailboxes take about a blink of an eye. -Shawn From bmw at borderware.com Tue Oct 12 18:18:15 2004 From: bmw at borderware.com (Bruce Walker) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <5E064166-1CA7-11D9-8FB6-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <5E064166-1CA7-11D9-8FB6-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> Message-ID: <416C8257.8090001@borderware.com> Todd Warfel wrote: > Wasn't that the 40bit? > > Of course, anything can be broken into, but we're taking most of the > precautions we can. > > On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:01 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > >> WEP is not secure and easily defeated. > > From this article ... http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/2106281 > Making the Most from WEP > By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols > > We all know by now that 802.11's wired equivalent privacy (WEP) isn't > good enough to protect our data. That isn't just the theory, it's a > fact. Sure, WEP will stop Joe Wireless, but freely available programs > like AirSnort enable Joe Cracker break into your WLAN with little trouble. > > Thus equipped, a cracker only needs some patience to mount a > successful invasion. Specifically, it usually takes only five to ten > million packets to break WEP encryption. And, at fifteen million > packets, it's almost dead certain that a dedicated attacker can pry > the lid off your network traffic. Or, to put it another way, a small > WLAN with four active users is almost certain to be cracked with two > weeks of eavesdropping. > > Making matters even worse, the cracking techniques most frequently > used will work equally well no matter what WEP key length you're > using. Thus, a 128-bit key is just as vulnerable as a 64-bit key. > Indeed, even if a WEP key was 1,204 bits, it still as crackable by > today's methods as one's that the minimal 64-bits. The article goes on to explain what to do about that, but it boils down to: change the net-wide WEP key frequently. From osx at nextnet.com Tue Oct 12 19:09:45 2004 From: osx at nextnet.com (osx@nextnet.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail App- can't add password Message-ID: 10.3.5 Anyone know anything about not being able to add any more IMAP accounts to Mail after a certain point? I have 35 imap accounts that all check for mail at the same time. Never had a problem. Now I try to add one account and "Mail" won't take the password. So I deleted the account and tried to setup another account and the same thing happens. It won't allow me to put in a password. I keep getting a message that says the server rejected the imap password and to please re-enter. The account is good but Mail won't take it. Any ideas? Mark From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Oct 12 19:24:38 2004 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <4101107D-1CBD-11D9-B336-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> References: <4101107D-1CBD-11D9-B336-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: <08617561-1CBF-11D9-B336-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> ( I have no idea whether this will go in the new thread I just created - this is a reply to the message I just sent in my Sent mailbox - don't know if the proper headers are preserved there..) > This is the reason the app is so SLOW!!! It has to mire through > thousands of messages looking at message IDs and organizing each one > such that every time you click on a message from a particular thread, > all the other messages in the thread are shown.. Not if it's written by halfway decent programs, it shouldn't. All the message-ID information for the "last message in a particular thread", and possibly even "which messages are in a thread" should be kept in a separate data structure, kind of like a skip-list.. I suspect that Mail doesn't thread every message to it's immidiate predecessor, but to the *first message* in the thread - this way, the only special case is if the first message is deleted. But I don't know how Mail does its threading - I haven't experimented by making my own mbox files to test, and I don't care to. >> By slow, I am not talking about the time it takes to check mail, I am >> talking about just moving from one directory/folder to the next, >> etc.. > The more mail you have, the more processing the application has to do > and the slower it will be. Certain programs may be faster than others > but there's no way around the basic principle that more data = slower. When you move mail from one folder to another, Mail actually copies the data from one file to another. Inefficient way to do it IMO - some kind of "lazy copying" would be better - so that if I go to the Junk folder, move some stuff to the Trash (if I don't want to delete *all* the Junk at once), then go to Trash, and get rid of it - there's an (operationally) unnecessary move (FS data move) in there. As for "more data=slower". Generally true. But if Mail could keep all mail data in memory, and then just manipulate pointers (like Scheme lists do), it would be blazing fast for moving any n messages (once those n messages) had been selected. Selecting them might take O(n) time as it might involve a pointer-walk though the whole folder. In which case, use a skip-list, B-tree, string B-tree, any number of other data structures. When it comes to writing that data to disk eventually, the yes, more data DOES always mean slower.. As regards creating new threads, it would be nice to have a checkbox somewhere in the message compose window that said "In current thread" - so you could just hit "Reply". Yes, hitting "New" isn't that much harder, but if I want to quote something from the current message (in thread A), and start a new thread B.. Jim Witte jswitte@bloomington.in.us Indiana University CS From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Oct 12 19:11:54 2004 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW Message-ID: <4101107D-1CBD-11D9-B336-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:42 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > Is there any way to speed up Mail.App? It is POKEY.. and it is > getting Pokier... > > I have some folders with 35k + messages.. What can I do to make this > program faster? It takes forever to move between folders.. > Also, when it is checking mail while I am writing a message, I might > as well take a break for a while because everything grinds to a halt, > and keystrokes are non-existent until it stops checking mail. FIRST OF ALL, starting a new thread.. Second, I'd second the solution to split the folder. I have some folders with 5k+, which is tolerable, though I probably should split them. AFAIK, all the messages are stored in ONE file, in standard mbox format (look inside the Mail .mbox packages and you'll see an mbox file) That's gotta be one humongous file, which of course is slow - if there's enough memory, OSX may try to load it all in, if there's not, it may or may not use an efficient B-Tree implementation for searching and good pointer structures for keeping track of messages. Even reading in the relavant header info from 35k+ messages (which I think is stored elsewhere in the mbox package) would be time-consuming. And, the larger the file gets, the more the chance of corruption (IMO). Not that Mail corrupts stuff, but NO (or almost no) software program of that complexity is guaranteed free of bugs. And it relies on Darwin (and the Cooca wrappers around Darwin FS calls), which themselves comprise thousands of lines of code. Program verification on that big a source base AFAIK is impossible, at least not without quantum computers to help.. Jim From bchin at mdimension.com Tue Oct 12 19:29:48 2004 From: bchin at mdimension.com (Bill Chin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: Our primary issue with Mail.app and speed has to do with filesystem access speed problems. Mail.app keeps all of its messages in one or more files per message in the same folder. At some point, the speed at which it takes to even stat the directory gets to be significant. On an AFP mounted home directory, it doesn't take much to bog down the AFP server. Roughly 8 thousand messages is enough to cause significant delays in just getting the "ls" information back from a directory (it's an exponential curve apparently). Further, the AFP server is apparently not well threaded since it blocks _all other clients_ from doing much of anything while this is happening. On even a small network where you may have two or more people with mailboxes > 10,000 items, the server is brought to its knees. AFP server is pegged at 100% usage (1.33GHz G4) as Mail.app does anything with the mail folder. Of course, the other CPU is not doing much at all since AFP server doesn't use it. I raised this issue at WWDC. ..Bill Chin Managing Director, m Dimension Technology From shawnce at mac.com Tue Oct 12 19:59:51 2004 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: On Oct 12, 2004, at 7:29 PM, Bill Chin wrote: > > Our primary issue with Mail.app and speed has to do with filesystem > access speed problems. Mail.app keeps all of its messages in one or > more files per message in the same folder. At some point, the speed at > which it takes to even stat the directory gets to be significant. On > an AFP mounted home directory, it doesn't take much to bog down the > AFP server. Roughly 8 thousand messages is enough to cause significant > delays in just getting the "ls" information back from a directory > (it's an exponential curve apparently). Further, the AFP server is > apparently not well threaded since it blocks _all other clients_ from > doing much of anything while this is happening. On even a small > network where you may have two or more people with mailboxes > 10,000 > items, the server is brought to its knees. AFP server is pegged at > 100% usage (1.33GHz G4) as Mail.app does anything with the mail > folder. Of course, the other CPU is not doing much at all since AFP > server doesn't use it. > > I raised this issue at WWDC. What type of email accounts are you talking about being used in Mail.app? Looking at the files in my ~/Library/Mail folder I see usually something like the following... ./Mailboxes/archives/cocoa-dev-old.mbox: total 211744 -rw-r--r-- 1 shawnce staff 357 12 Oct 16:59 Info.plist -rw-r--r-- 1 shawnce staff 30865408 12 Oct 16:59 content_index -rw------- 1 shawnce staff 72292039 13 Sep 07:49 mbox -rw-r--r-- 1 shawnce staff 5245883 12 Oct 16:55 table_of_contents In this above example the mailbox contains well over 20,000 messages. For POP accounts I see a similar set of files with an mbox containing the messages. I guess you are dealing with IMAP accounts? The single IMAP account I have setup in this user login appears to contain one file per message (possibly more if it has an attachment?) but I didn't count them out. I assume the file names are the IMAP number for the message..? Make sure to file this issue via Apple's feedback page or better yet via the developer bug reporter if you have access. That will make it a little more likely that they will look at changing how IMAP accounts are handled. As a side question why are folks keeping 8000+ message in their IMAP mailbox... it may make sense for them to file them off into local folders (which should cut down on the file count). -Shawn From bchin at mdimension.com Tue Oct 12 20:24:17 2004 From: bchin at mdimension.com (Bill Chin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <5DA2072A-1CC7-11D9-9BEF-000A95C31478@mdimension.com> On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:59 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > I guess you are dealing with IMAP accounts? Yes, IMAP accounts. My inbox right now has 3,307 messages. There are 3,352 files in the CachedMessages folder. It takes 3.861 seconds for "ls -1" to return the file list. This is a 2.5GHz G5 desktop connected via AFP over Gigabit (non-jumbo frames) to an Xserve G5 connected to an Xserve RAID. In my WebObjects mailbox, I have 11,548 messages. It takes 29.359 seconds for "ls -1" to return. BTW, when Mail.app is busy with the filesystem, it can hang even the typing of an email - the threading could use some more work. > Make sure to file this issue via Apple's feedback page or better yet > via the developer bug reporter if you have access. That will make it a > little more likely that they will look at changing how IMAP accounts > are handled. Yes. The reporting has been done. > As a side question why are folks keeping 8000+ message in their IMAP > mailbox... it may make sense for them to file them off into local > folders (which should cut down on the file count). I have multiple email clients on multiple machines - and use IMAP to provide synchronization between them all. ..Bill Chin Managing Director, m Dimension Technology From rogerhoward at mac.com Tue Oct 12 20:35:50 2004 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: On Oct 12, 2004, at 7:59 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > > On Oct 12, 2004, at 7:29 PM, Bill Chin wrote: > >> >> Our primary issue with Mail.app and speed has to do with filesystem >> access speed problems. Mail.app keeps all of its messages in one or >> more files per message in the same folder. At some point, the speed >> at which it takes to even stat the directory gets to be significant. >> On an AFP mounted home directory, it doesn't take much to bog down >> the AFP server. Roughly 8 thousand messages is enough to cause >> significant delays in just getting the "ls" information back from a >> directory (it's an exponential curve apparently). Further, the AFP >> server is apparently not well threaded since it blocks _all other >> clients_ from doing much of anything while this is happening. On even >> a small network where you may have two or more people with mailboxes >> > 10,000 items, the server is brought to its knees. AFP server is >> pegged at 100% usage (1.33GHz G4) as Mail.app does anything with the >> mail folder. Of course, the other CPU is not doing much at all since >> AFP server doesn't use it. >> >> I raised this issue at WWDC. > > What type of email accounts are you talking about being used in > Mail.app? > > Looking at the files in my ~/Library/Mail folder I see usually > something like the following... > > ./Mailboxes/archives/cocoa-dev-old.mbox: > total 211744 > -rw-r--r-- 1 shawnce staff 357 12 Oct 16:59 Info.plist > -rw-r--r-- 1 shawnce staff 30865408 12 Oct 16:59 content_index > -rw------- 1 shawnce staff 72292039 13 Sep 07:49 mbox > -rw-r--r-- 1 shawnce staff 5245883 12 Oct 16:55 table_of_contents > > In this above example the mailbox contains well over 20,000 messages. > > For POP accounts I see a similar set of files with an mbox containing > the messages. > > I guess you are dealing with IMAP accounts? The single IMAP account I > have setup in this user login appears to contain one file per message > (possibly more if it has an attachment?) but I didn't count them out. > I assume the file names are the IMAP number for the message..? > > Make sure to file this issue via Apple's feedback page or better yet > via the developer bug reporter if you have access. That will make it a > little more likely that they will look at changing how IMAP accounts > are handled. > > As a side question why are folks keeping 8000+ message in their IMAP > mailbox... it may make sense for them to file them off into local > folders (which should cut down on the file count). Isn't Tiger Mail moving towards one file per message for all message types? - R From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Tue Oct 12 20:54:43 2004 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: "The sales guy" (Was Re: What is Apple?) In-Reply-To: <23FB0FD0-1C5C-11D9-A89B-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> References: <23FB0FD0-1C5C-11D9-A89B-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> Message-ID: <9D91FE6A-1CCB-11D9-9A97-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:36 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > The whole article is here (if you haven't already seen it): > > nf20041012_4018_db083.htm?chan=db&sub=bw75&> > Great article. My favorite line comes after Steve finishes explaining that companies run by "product" guys often devolve into companies run by the marketing and sales guys. Then this exchange: "Q: Is this common in the industry? A: Look at Microsoft (MSFT ) -- who's running Microsoft? Q: Steve Ballmer. A: Right, the sales guy. Case closed. And that's what happened at Apple, as well." The ultimate dismissal of Ballmer. "The sales guy." Ballmer tried to blast Apple recently, and totally whiffed and ended up blasting a good portion of his potential customers instead. Jobs totally sums up the current non-direction of MSFT and shows utter disdain for MSFT as a competitor with one deft, artful blow. I hereby propose that Ballmer be referred to as "the sales guy" in all further discussions on this list. -jimbo Fantastic - Excelsior! 2 - Excelsior! Path XML Tools for Mac OS X http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun From chucks at lmi.net Tue Oct 12 21:44:23 2004 From: chucks at lmi.net (Chuck Soper) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: "The sales guy" (Was Re: What is Apple?) In-Reply-To: <9D91FE6A-1CCB-11D9-9A97-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <23FB0FD0-1C5C-11D9-A89B-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <9D91FE6A-1CCB-11D9-9A97-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: This link was posted to this list last November, but it seems appropriate to post it again given the recent blast against ipod users: http://www.macboy.com/cartoons/ballmer/ At 11:54 PM -0400 10/12/04, Jim Rankin wrote: >On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:36 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: > >>The whole article is here (if you haven't already seen it): >> >> >> >Great article. My favorite line comes after Steve finishes >explaining that companies run by "product" guys often devolve into >companies run by the marketing and sales guys. Then this exchange: > >"Q: Is this common in the industry? >A: Look at Microsoft (MSFT ) -- who's running Microsoft? > >Q: Steve Ballmer. >A: Right, the sales guy. Case closed. And that's what happened at >Apple, as well." > >The ultimate dismissal of Ballmer. "The sales guy." > >Ballmer tried to blast Apple recently, and totally whiffed and ended >up blasting a good portion of his potential customers instead. Jobs >totally sums up the current non-direction of MSFT and shows utter >disdain for MSFT as a competitor with one deft, artful blow. > >I hereby propose that Ballmer be referred to as "the sales guy" in >all further discussions on this list. > > -jimbo > >Fantastic - Excelsior! 2 - Excelsior! Path >XML Tools for Mac OS X >http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun >_______________________________________________ >MacOSX-talk mailing list >MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Tue Oct 12 23:27:10 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: "The sales guy" (Was Re: What is Apple?) In-Reply-To: References: <23FB0FD0-1C5C-11D9-A89B-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <9D91FE6A-1CCB-11D9-9A97-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <20041013062710.GX17336@4321.tv> On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 09:44:23PM -0700, Chuck Soper wrote: > This link was posted to this list last November, but it seems > appropriate to post it again given the recent blast against ipod > users: > http://www.macboy.com/cartoons/ballmer/ http://www.ntk.net/ballmer/mirrors.html Developers the musical...classic... -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Oct 12 23:39:14 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <8A93B436-1CA6-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <8A93B436-1CA6-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: at 2004-10-12, 4:29 PM -0700, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: >Replying to an existing message and replacing the Subject line does >not make a new thread. Regardless of what the subject line reads, >the message will be considered part of the same thread if you hit >"Reply". "considered" by the application, but millions of people have an impure concept of what threads are, and undoing that is going to take years.. i think the apps should help a lot more.. and as long as incorrect threading is common, i think apps should should also provide support for "threading" by subject line -- steve harley From mstearne at entermix.com Tue Oct 12 23:46:02 2004 From: mstearne at entermix.com (Michael Stearne) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Presence & Mindshare Message-ID: <8C71C7F6-1CE3-11D9-A324-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> I was looking at coverage of the Web 2.0 conference and going through the pictures they have posted. If you look at these pictures in all the laptops shown. 9 are Powerbooks and 4 are Windows based (mostly ThinkPads). Also, look around in an airport or Starbucks some time. All this presence has to count for something. I don't want to get in to the whole "how to count marketshare" thing. But, in the U.S. at least its getting harder to believe the count is still 3%. Michael From andrew.brown at c18.net Wed Oct 13 00:14:12 2004 From: andrew.brown at c18.net (Andrew Brown) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: "The sales guy" (Was Re: What is Apple?) In-Reply-To: <20041013062710.GX17336@4321.tv> References: <23FB0FD0-1C5C-11D9-A89B-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <9D91FE6A-1CCB-11D9-9A97-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <20041013062710.GX17336@4321.tv> Message-ID: <7C20BE16-1CE7-11D9-9B1B-000A95D99D3C@c18.net> > http://www.ntk.net/ballmer/mirrors.html I had not heard of Steve Ballmer before today, and was a happier man yesterday. No more monkey links please. AB From sanguish at digifix.com Wed Oct 13 00:20:51 2004 From: sanguish at digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Presence & Mindshare In-Reply-To: <8C71C7F6-1CE3-11D9-A324-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> References: <8C71C7F6-1CE3-11D9-A324-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> Message-ID: <69D899D2-1CE8-11D9-A948-000393D59866@digifix.com> On Oct 13, 2004, at 2:46 AM, Michael Stearne wrote: > I was looking at coverage of the Web 2.0 conference and going through > the pictures they have posted.? If you look at these pictures in all > the laptops shown. 9 are Powerbooks and 4 are Windows based (mostly > ThinkPads).? Also, look around in an airport or Starbucks some time.? > All this presence has to count for something.? I don't want to get in > to the whole "how to count marketshare" thing.? But, in the U.S. at > least its getting harder to believe the count is still 3%. > > Michael On Oct 13, 2004, at 2:46 AM, Michael Stearne wrote: I was looking at coverage of the Web 2.0 conference and going through the pictures they have posted.? If you look at these pictures in all the laptops shown. 9 are Powerbooks and 4 are Windows based (mostly ThinkPads).? Also, look around in an airport or Starbucks some time.? All this presence has to count for something.? I don't want to get in to the whole "how to count marketshare" thing.? But, in the U.S. at least its getting harder to believe the count is still 3%. Michael ??? I think it definitely does... although Web 2.0 might not be indicative, since it's hardly the Joe off the street type of people.? It's those who are bleeding edge already. ??? Still, it was great to see all the Macs at the Burlington, Vermont airport last time I flew out.. two years ago you'd see none. From mark at bbprojects.net Wed Oct 13 00:57:05 2004 From: mark at bbprojects.net (Mark Smith) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <51CC6B69-1CA8-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: Scott Stevenson wrote: > >On Oct 12, 2004, at 4:35 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > >>> Compared to some other email client that is faster on the same HW+OS >>> combination? >> >> That helps.. Compared to Claris Emailer on OS9... Yes it is that bad > >You had 35k messages in Emailer and it was still fast? That program was >much more capable than I had thought. It was VERY capable, but I would not say that it suffered NO loss of speed as the message DB got larger. It did. I think I only had about 5000 messages in it when I last used it and some tasks had slowed a bit. Nothing else is to be expected. From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Wed Oct 13 01:47:36 2004 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: "The sales guy" (Was Re: What is Apple?) In-Reply-To: <9D91FE6A-1CCB-11D9-9A97-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <23FB0FD0-1C5C-11D9-A89B-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <9D91FE6A-1CCB-11D9-9A97-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <20041013084736.GD867@Dark-Age.local> On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 11:54:43PM -0400, Jim Rankin wrote: : : On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:36 AM, Ashley Aitken wrote: : : >The whole article is here (if you haven't already seen it): : > : > : : I hereby propose that Ballmer be referred to as "the sales guy" in all : further discussions on this list. Heh, Steve "The Sales Guy" Ballmer. Much better than "the screaming, vein-popping, caucasoidal football coach". -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From spoun at mac.com Wed Oct 13 02:11:48 2004 From: spoun at mac.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ferenc_Farkas_M=C1TY=C1S?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Stopping Mail.app activity -> solved In-Reply-To: References: <12D3337D-1C47-11D9-B5FF-000A9576E324@mac.com> Message-ID: I've deleted all the junk, drafts and deleted messages folders, and all the caches files and folders inside the Mail folder, and it works seamlesly. :) -- Regards, Ferenc Farkas M?TY?S From michaelm at opendarwin.org Wed Oct 13 02:47:05 2004 From: michaelm at opendarwin.org (Michael Maibaum) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Big Directories (Was Mail.App still SLOW) In-Reply-To: <5DA2072A-1CC7-11D9-9BEF-000A95C31478@mdimension.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <5DA2072A-1CC7-11D9-9BEF-000A95C31478@mdimension.com> Message-ID: On 13 Oct 2004, at 04:24, Bill Chin wrote: > > On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:59 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: >> I guess you are dealing with IMAP accounts? > > Yes, IMAP accounts. My inbox right now has 3,307 messages. There are > 3,352 files in the CachedMessages folder. It takes 3.861 seconds for > "ls -1" to return the file list. This is a 2.5GHz G5 desktop connected > via AFP over Gigabit (non-jumbo frames) to an Xserve G5 connected to > an Xserve RAID. > > In my WebObjects mailbox, I have 11,548 messages. It takes 29.359 > seconds for "ls -1" to return. > One thing I've noticed is that ls -1 is *really* slow on big (~180,000-500,000 files) directories when the output is going to the terminal, however, it is enormously faster if you pipe the output to a file. This isn't just a factor of waiting for the list to scroll bye, the piped version finishes before the non-piped version even starts scrolling. Michael From pelorus at mac.com Wed Oct 13 04:20:37 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> Message-ID: On 12 Oct 2004, at 21:35, Scott Anguish wrote: > On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:33 PM, Google ListKreme wrote: > >> As for security, my own wireless network is intentionally wide open.? >> I run Macs, I'm not worried about crackers when there are millions of >> PCs out there. > > > ??? You don't need to worry about crackers perhaps (and that's a big > perhaps), but you're positioning yourself as a prime injector for SPAM > and general lack of privacy. I don't honestly believe that one open wireless network in a residential area operated by a reasonably competent individual who runs Mac OS X is going to be as much bother as a single Windows PC connected to broadband, left always running and administrated by Fix all of those...then come bitching at the rest of us. From pelorus at mac.com Wed Oct 13 04:29:57 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <7AFA01A5-1C84-11D9-B300-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <366398FA-1D0B-11D9-A5B8-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 12 Oct 2004, at 22:28, Dan Shoop wrote: > Both are pretty easy and can be done rather causally. I was suprised > by the number of people at last year's O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference > who were sniffing and probing and capturing passwords. Oh, that's a great example. You and your mates at a O'Reilly Conference is not exactly what I'd describe as a "normal" circumstance. >> He does say he's not too worried about being hacked. > > Yes, sounded to me like he made this statement based on his use of > WEP, firewalling, et al. As such if that was the basis than this is > demonstrably not the case. That is it sounded like he wasn't too > concerned about being "hacked"(*) because he had put measures in > place. But I see what you're suggesting, maybe he's in a really low > risk environment like someplace where there aren't any people. Or he has nothing important on his network that he feels is worth protecting. > (*) A mis-use of the word Only according to a subgroup of people who call themselves hackers. Nice thing about language and words is that, for the most part, it means what the populace thinks it means. M From pelorus at mac.com Wed Oct 13 04:30:45 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> Message-ID: <52CF8A26-1D0B-11D9-A5B8-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 12 Oct 2004, at 23:18, Jonathan G. Ballard wrote: > This brings up a related question, is there a way to add "Extreme" > 802.11g networking to a G4 DP500? http://www.macwireless.com/ M From mah at jump-ing.de Wed Oct 13 05:48:12 2004 From: mah at jump-ing.de (Markus Hitter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <245A2C54-1D16-11D9-8110-00039340BDFC@jump-ing.de> Am 13.10.2004 um 05:35 schrieb Roger Howard: > Isn't Tiger Mail moving towards one file per message for all message > types? Yet another 100,000 files on the disk? Huh. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ From mlists at cotingent.com Wed Oct 13 08:47:40 2004 From: mlists at cotingent.com (Matt Ronge) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: "The sales guy" (Was Re: What is Apple?) In-Reply-To: <20041013062710.GX17336@4321.tv> Message-ID: > Developers the musical...classic... I didn't see the remixed one listed, best Balmer video of all. :) http://www.crackaddict.com/~jonas/balmer.mov -- Matt From dave at difference.com.au Wed Oct 13 08:42:59 2004 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Ballmer Re: "The sales guy" (Was Re: What is Apple?) In-Reply-To: <7C20BE16-1CE7-11D9-9B1B-000A95D99D3C@c18.net> References: <23FB0FD0-1C5C-11D9-A89B-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <9D91FE6A-1CCB-11D9-9A97-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <20041013062710.GX17336@4321.tv> <7C20BE16-1CE7-11D9-9B1B-000A95D99D3C@c18.net> Message-ID: I'd just like to point out that I think Ballmer was quoted out of context, and IMO was NOT bashing the iPod as such. He was making a genuine, if somewhat poorly expressed, comment about users of music players (including MS ones) in general and using the iPod as an example because he iplicitly acknowledges its the category defining device. http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/online/archives/microsoft/2004/10/what_steve_ballmer_said.html Cheers David From larkost at softhome.net Wed Oct 13 09:50:18 2004 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Ballmer Re: "The sales guy" (Was Re: What is Apple?) In-Reply-To: References: <23FB0FD0-1C5C-11D9-A89B-000A95A4E9DE@mac.com> <9D91FE6A-1CCB-11D9-9A97-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <20041013062710.GX17336@4321.tv> <7C20BE16-1CE7-11D9-9B1B-000A95D99D3C@c18.net> Message-ID: Hey! Hey! Hey! I call shenanigans! It is an election year, therefore the context of quotes clearly does not mean anything, especially when it would negate the meaning/sensationalism/propaganda value of a sound-byte! Have you paid no attention to the electioneering here in the US? Even given that you have an Australian email address... that just means you are a little behind us civilized folks in the US because you won't get the latest Hollywood films for, like... forever... Common, its not like you have your own politicians to pay attention to.. they are unimportant... It is almost like you want the press to read material and do research... or actually try and understand an issue... let alone communicate a complex thought to the viewing public (lets be honest... no one worth brain-washing reads these days...). Next you will want voters to make their political decisions based on issues or abilities rather than who looks better on TV. *sigh* Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net On Oct 13, 2004, at 11:42 AM, David Cake wrote: > I'd just like to point out that I think Ballmer was quoted out of > context, and IMO was NOT bashing the iPod as such. He was making a > genuine, if somewhat poorly expressed, comment about users of music > players (including MS ones) in general and using the iPod as an > example because he iplicitly acknowledges its the category defining > device. From osx.rand at gmail.com Wed Oct 13 11:44:05 2004 From: osx.rand at gmail.com (rand) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> Message-ID: <7ea7adf00410131144690c4f81@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:18:22 -0500, Jonathan G. Ballard wrote: > > This brings up a related question, is there a way to add "Extreme" > 802.11g networking to a G4 DP500? I know I can use the built-in > AirPort card, but are there other solutions, such as PCI? But then > again, I'm dealing with non-Apple products. Too bad I can't use the > Airport Extreme card, which is cheaper and faster, in the old G4. > J.G.B. I have used Linksys PCI wireless G cards in my osx desktops, beige g3's and blue and white g3's. they work like a charm tho i heard a rumor that they are not being made compatable anymore, tho that is completely unconfirmed by me. check xlr8yourmac.com, a lot of people report success' and failures there. for me, the linksys cards rock, they are even seen as native apple cards, so you just use the airport icon in the dock to control it. cheers rand From sanguish at digifix.com Wed Oct 13 12:21:12 2004 From: sanguish at digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> Message-ID: <0B232C0F-1D4D-11D9-9284-000393D59866@digifix.com> On Oct 13, 2004, at 7:20 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > > On 12 Oct 2004, at 21:35, Scott Anguish wrote: > >> On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:33 PM, Google ListKreme wrote: >> >>> As for security, my own wireless network is intentionally wide open.? >>> I run Macs, I'm not worried about crackers when there are millions of >>> PCs out there. >> >> >> ??? You don't need to worry about crackers perhaps (and that's a big >> perhaps), but you're positioning yourself as a prime injector for >> SPAM and general lack of privacy. > > I don't honestly believe that one open wireless network in a > residential area operated by a reasonably competent individual who > runs Mac OS X is going to be as much bother as a single Windows PC > connected to broadband, left always running and administrated by average person> > > Fix all of those...then come bitching at the rest of us. > On Oct 13, 2004, at 7:20 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: On 12 Oct 2004, at 21:35, Scott Anguish wrote: On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:33 PM, Google ListKreme wrote: As for security, my own wireless network is intentionally wide open.? I run Macs, I'm not worried about crackers when there are millions of PCs out there. ??? You don't need to worry about crackers perhaps (and that's a big perhaps), but you're positioning yourself as a prime injector for SPAM and general lack of privacy. I don't honestly believe that one open wireless network in a residential area operated by a reasonably competent individual who runs Mac OS X is going to be as much bother as a single Windows PC connected to broadband, left always running and administrated by Fix all of those...then come bitching at the rest of us. ??? Sure, but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't exercise reasonable care and lock your "doors" anyways. ??? Mind you, I'm a paranoid SOB.. :-) From shoop at mac.com Wed Oct 13 12:27:49 2004 From: shoop at mac.com (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> Message-ID: At 12:20 PM +0100 10/13/04, Matt Johnston wrote: >On 12 Oct 2004, at 21:35, Scott Anguish wrote: > >>On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:33 PM, Google ListKreme wrote: >> >>>As for security, my own wireless network is intentionally wide open. >>>I run Macs, I'm not worried about crackers when there are millions of >>>PCs out there. >> >> >> You don't need to worry about crackers perhaps (and that's a >>big perhaps), but you're positioning yourself as a prime injector >>for SPAM and general lack of privacy. > >I don't honestly believe that one open wireless network in a >residential area operated by a reasonably competent individual who >runs Mac OS X is going to be as much bother as a single Windows PC >connected to broadband, left always running and administrated by average person> > >Fix all of those...then come bitching at the rest of us. Except that the intruder doesn't need to crack that PC they can just piggy-back on your network and run amok. In urban areas this is particularly true. NYC is full of freeloaders and those piggybacking off open WiFi access points. And many of these are then used for nefarious purposes. Due diligence says that at least trying to secure your network is a prudent goal, even if the security can be defeated. Leaving your door wide open with the light on isn't being a secure netizen. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop shoop@iwiring.net Consulting Internet Architect shoop@mac.com AIM: iWiring http://www.iwiring.net/ Skype: danshoop http://www.ustsvs.com/ pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring designs and supports Internet systems and networks based on Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies and offers 24x7, guaranteed support to registered clients, at affordable rates. From shoop at mac.com Wed Oct 13 12:31:45 2004 From: shoop at mac.com (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <366398FA-1D0B-11D9-A5B8-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <7AFA01A5-1C84-11D9-B300-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <366398FA-1D0B-11D9-A5B8-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: At 12:29 PM +0100 10/13/04, Matt Johnston wrote: >On 12 Oct 2004, at 22:28, Dan Shoop wrote: > >>Both are pretty easy and can be done rather causally. I was >>suprised by the number of people at last year's O'Reilly Mac OS X >>Conference who were sniffing and probing and capturing passwords. > >Oh, that's a great example. You and your mates at a O'Reilly >Conference is not exactly what I'd describe as a "normal" >circumstance. First, they were hardly my "mates", and were mostly just nosey users. They level of sophistication was not that high. Certainly nothing above the nefarious teenager across the street. >>>He does say he's not too worried about being hacked. >> >>Yes, sounded to me like he made this statement based on his use of >>WEP, firewalling, et al. As such if that was the basis than this is >>demonstrably not the case. That is it sounded like he wasn't too >>concerned about being "hacked"(*) because he had put measures in >>place. But I see what you're suggesting, maybe he's in a really low >>risk environment like someplace where there aren't any people. > >Or he has nothing important on his network that he feels is worth protecting. His network is still a conduit. He might not have anything work protecting, but that doesn't prevent his network from being used to abuse others. >>(*) A mis-use of the word > >Only according to a subgroup of people who call themselves hackers. >Nice thing about language and words is that, for the most part, it >means what the populace thinks it means. People also say schizophrenic to describe people with multiple personalities, but that doesn't make it right either. People are dumb, as proven by those who think network security so invaluable. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop shoop@iwiring.net Consulting Internet Architect shoop@mac.com AIM: iWiring http://www.iwiring.net/ Skype: danshoop http://www.ustsvs.com/ pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring designs and supports Internet systems and networks based on Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies and offers 24x7, guaranteed support to registered clients, at affordable rates. From chris at growl.info Wed Oct 13 14:37:29 2004 From: chris at growl.info (Christopher Forsythe) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <8A93B436-1CA6-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <152A84A6-1D60-11D9-BAA2-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> On Oct 13, 2004, at 1:39 AM, steve harley wrote: > at 2004-10-12, 4:29 PM -0700, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: >> Replying to an existing message and replacing the Subject line does >> not make a new thread. Regardless of what the subject line reads, the >> message will be considered part of the same thread if you hit >> "Reply". > > "considered" by the application, but millions of people have > an impure concept of what threads are, and undoing that is > going to take years.. i think the apps should help a lot > more.. and as long as incorrect threading is common, i think > apps should should also provide support for "threading" by > subject line > It annoys me to no end when someone does this. It's a new thread if the subject changes. Mail should see that, that's how the sender meant it, and how the person receiving the email will perceive it, and they will only go "Stupid apple" if it doesn't pick up otherwise. *sigh* From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Oct 13 15:02:11 2004 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <152A84A6-1D60-11D9-BAA2-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <8A93B436-1CA6-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <152A84A6-1D60-11D9-BAA2-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> Message-ID: <88C74C33-1D63-11D9-AA05-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Oct 13, 2004, at 3:37 PM, Christopher Forsythe wrote: > On Oct 13, 2004, at 1:39 AM, steve harley wrote: > >> at 2004-10-12, 4:29 PM -0700, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: >>> Replying to an existing message and replacing the Subject line does >>> not make a new thread. Regardless of what the subject line reads, >>> the message will be considered part of the same thread if you hit >>> "Reply". >> >> "considered" by the application, but millions of people have >> an impure concept of what threads are, and undoing that is >> going to take years.. i think the apps should help a lot >> more.. and as long as incorrect threading is common, i think >> apps should should also provide support for "threading" by >> subject line >> > > > It annoys me to no end when someone does this. It's a new thread if > the subject changes. Mail should see that, that's how the sender meant > it, and how the person receiving the email will perceive it, and they > will only go "Stupid apple" if it doesn't pick up otherwise. A subject changing does not mean that a thread has changed. Threading by subject only is dumb, unless you have no other threading information. For example. Say someone creates a thread called My monitor won't work Later, after many emails in the thread, the OP posts his success story Success -- the cable was bad (re: My monitor won't work) This is clearly part of the same thread but the subject has changed Chad From scott at maxify.com Wed Oct 13 15:34:22 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <152A84A6-1D60-11D9-BAA2-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <8A93B436-1CA6-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <152A84A6-1D60-11D9-BAA2-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> Message-ID: <079FBBF1-1D68-11D9-BDF0-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 13, 2004, at 2:37 PM, Christopher Forsythe wrote: > It annoys me to no end when someone does this. It's a new thread if > the subject changes. Mail should see that, that's how the sender meant > it, and how the person receiving the email will perceive it, and they > will only go "Stupid apple" if it doesn't pick up otherwise. It's not at all that simple, precisely for the reason Chad described. If you go by the subject string alone, you run into all sorts of problems. That's why there's a header specifically for this purpose. There are, of course, ways for people to make mistakes when creating threads, but it's much better than the computer just guessing what you mean. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From mmalc_lists at mac.com Wed Oct 13 16:27:55 2004 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <7AFA01A5-1C84-11D9-B300-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <366398FA-1D0B-11D9-A5B8-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: <82840D32-1D6F-11D9-AF1E-000D93AD3284@mac.com> On Oct 13, 2004, at 12:31 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > People also say schizophrenic to describe people with multiple > personalities, but that doesn't make it right either. People are dumb, > as proven by those who think network security so invaluable. > And also, presumably, by those lacking the power of speech engaging in floccinaucinihilipilification... mmalc From toble at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Oct 13 17:40:58 2004 From: toble at blueyonder.co.uk (Toby Morris) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <82840D32-1D6F-11D9-AF1E-000D93AD3284@mac.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <7AFA01A5-1C84-11D9-B300-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <366398FA-1D0B-11D9-A5B8-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <82840D32-1D6F-11D9-AF1E-000D93AD3284@mac.com> Message-ID: its a common error, bet there isn't a 'u' > floccinacinihilipilification... On 14 Oct 2004, at 00:27, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > floccinaucinihilipilification... From aad at verio.net Wed Oct 13 20:23:55 2004 From: aad at verio.net (Anthony D'Atri) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <200410131901.i9DJ1KZT018239@slowbro.omnigroup.com> References: <200410131901.i9DJ1KZT018239@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <7AC90962-1D90-11D9-8279-000A95A637EC@verio.net> > Make sure to file this issue via Apple's feedback page Apple has a feedback page? I've only been able to figure out how to give feedback about iTunes. > As a side question why are folks keeping 8000+ message in their IMAP > mailbox... it may make sense for them to file them off into local > folders (which should cut down on the file count). ay a prevent us from seeing them on other machines, and perhaps from having them backed up. > Isn't Tiger Mail moving towards one file per message for all message > types? Interesting -- perhaps "maildir" format? > **** From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Wed Oct 13 21:16:03 2004 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: wow. Message-ID: 37% year over year increase in revenue. Year over year profit more than doubled. 500% year over year increase in unit iPod sales. 95% year over year increase in retail store revenues. http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/oct/13results.html Also interesting that iPod unit sales are more than double unit Mac sales. Any other computer hardware makers posting anything like this kind of growth? -jimbo Fantastic - Excelsior! 2 - Excelsior! Path XML Tools for Mac OS X http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun From fleep at accesstech.com Wed Oct 13 21:30:07 2004 From: fleep at accesstech.com (fleep@accesstech.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <7AC90962-1D90-11D9-8279-000A95A637EC@verio.net> References: <200410131901.i9DJ1KZT018239@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <7AC90962-1D90-11D9-8279-000A95A637EC@verio.net> Message-ID: At 20:23 -0700 04/10/13, Anthony D'Atri wrote: >> As a side question why are folks keeping 8000+ message in their IMAP >> mailbox... it may make sense for them to file them off into local >> folders (which should cut down on the file count). Because when in a corporate environment where the home directory is off the server as well there is not much difference. If it was a local disk I would agree. I've tried many a times to teach people keep there mail folders small but it usually goes in one ear and out the other. Mainly they don't want to sort or look at other folders (especially with sales staff). >Interesting -- perhaps "maildir" format? If you mail server supports maildir format that will definitely speed up IMAP connections (I use CGP) Also I agree with Jeremy that Mail.app is slow. Compared to Eudora which I use due to the fact i can re-edit the from address on the fly (sort of spoofing the from address - very handy when dealing with foreign names people mistype that get bounced). In my bounced email folder in Eudora, I can have up to 30,000 mails and it takes about 1.5 seconds to open compared to mail which takes eons to open. Other little things from a sys-admin position is group via anything just by option clicking the relevant part in the listing. The only way to speed up Mail.app is really by having no more than a few 1000 mails in any box and rebuild the mailboxes periodically. Phillip. From scott at maxify.com Wed Oct 13 21:40:52 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <7AC90962-1D90-11D9-8279-000A95A637EC@verio.net> References: <200410131901.i9DJ1KZT018239@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <7AC90962-1D90-11D9-8279-000A95A637EC@verio.net> Message-ID: <3A8A665A-1D9B-11D9-9DC1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 13, 2004, at 8:23 PM, Anthony D'Atri wrote: >> Make sure to file this issue via Apple's feedback page > > Apple has a feedback page? I've only been able to figure out how to > give feedback about iTunes. http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/ - Scott From scott at maxify.com Wed Oct 13 21:47:24 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: wow. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2407CFB4-1D9C-11D9-9DC1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 13, 2004, at 9:16 PM, Jim Rankin wrote: > 37% year over year increase in revenue. > Year over year profit more than doubled. Indeed. > http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/oct/13results.html > > Also interesting that iPod unit sales are more than double unit Mac > sales. I think it makes a lot of sense given the price difference between the two. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From shawnce at mac.com Wed Oct 13 21:54:09 2004 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:37 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: <7AC90962-1D90-11D9-8279-000A95A637EC@verio.net> References: <200410131901.i9DJ1KZT018239@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <7AC90962-1D90-11D9-8279-000A95A637EC@verio.net> Message-ID: <15DD4FB4-1D9D-11D9-BE7F-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Oct 13, 2004, at 8:23 PM, Anthony D'Atri wrote: >> Make sure to file this issue via Apple's feedback page > > Apple has a feedback page? I've only been able to figure out how to > give feedback about iTunes. Yes... For Mail.app... -Shawn From kcall at mac.com Wed Oct 13 22:02:46 2004 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: wow. In-Reply-To: <2407CFB4-1D9C-11D9-9DC1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <2407CFB4-1D9C-11D9-9DC1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <49DA9AD3-1D9E-11D9-95EB-000D932F9884@mac.com> On Oct 13, 2004, at 9:47 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Oct 13, 2004, at 9:16 PM, Jim Rankin wrote: > >> 37% year over year increase in revenue. >> Year over year profit more than doubled. > > Indeed. > >> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/oct/13results.html >> >> Also interesting that iPod unit sales are more than double unit Mac >> sales. > > I think it makes a lot of sense given the price difference between the > two. > > > - Scott $42.41 after hours, +2.66 > > > -- > http://treehouseideas.com/ > http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From rogerhoward at mac.com Wed Oct 13 22:23:12 2004 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: 3D environment builder tools? Message-ID: <24C426DE-1DA1-11D9-AFBF-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Any recommendations for an OSX-native 3D environment generator, something like Bryce (it's not still around, is it?)... my primary need is for a good 3D skyscape generator (no terrain needed). thx roger howard email & im @ photos @ From chris at growl.info Wed Oct 13 22:44:14 2004 From: chris at growl.info (Christopher Forsythe) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: 3D environment builder tools? In-Reply-To: <24C426DE-1DA1-11D9-AFBF-0003938C8B26@mac.com> References: <24C426DE-1DA1-11D9-AFBF-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: <14B5919D-1DA4-11D9-BAA2-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> daz3d bought bryce from corel: http://www.daz3d.com/ Blender is free, and works on multiple platforms. I tried it for a bit and liked it, but know nothing of what I was doing, hehe. http://www.blender3d.org/ I've heard pov-ray is alright, but that it might be insane. Looks like it's available to download too: http://www.povray.org/ Chris On Oct 14, 2004, at 12:23 AM, Roger Howard wrote: > Any recommendations for an OSX-native 3D environment generator, > something like Bryce (it's not still around, is it?)... my primary > need is for a good 3D skyscape generator (no terrain needed). > > thx > > roger howard > email & im @ > photos @ > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From mjwise at kapu.net Wed Oct 13 23:15:26 2004 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: iTMS hosed? Message-ID: <709C218C-1DA8-11D9-A516-003065DC8EE4@kapu.net> Can't download, can't check for downloaded music, can't check my password. Keep getting: " An Internal Server Error Has Occurred. Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From mjwise at kapu.net Wed Oct 13 23:39:47 2004 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: iTMS hosed? In-Reply-To: <709C218C-1DA8-11D9-A516-003065DC8EE4@kapu.net> References: <709C218C-1DA8-11D9-A516-003065DC8EE4@kapu.net> Message-ID: On Oct 13, 2004, at 8:15 PM, Michael J Wise wrote: > " An Internal Server Error Has Occurred. Everything is now swimmy. If the previous email helped, Thanks! Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From glennc at mac.com Wed Oct 13 23:43:21 2004 From: glennc at mac.com (Glenn Carnagey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: iTMS hosed? In-Reply-To: <709C218C-1DA8-11D9-A516-003065DC8EE4@kapu.net> References: <709C218C-1DA8-11D9-A516-003065DC8EE4@kapu.net> Message-ID: <570F1484-1DAC-11D9-9A71-000393A7795C@mac.com> yeah, it seems to be down, or at least I got a similar error trying to buy something. g./ On Oct 14, 2004, at 1:15 AM, Michael J Wise wrote: > Can't download, > can't check for downloaded music, > can't check my password. > > Keep getting: > > " An Internal Server Error Has Occurred. > > Aloha mai Nai`a! > -- > "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ > and Usenet Registration handy..." > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From scott at maxify.com Thu Oct 14 02:51:05 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: 3D environment builder tools? In-Reply-To: <24C426DE-1DA1-11D9-AFBF-0003938C8B26@mac.com> References: <24C426DE-1DA1-11D9-AFBF-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: <90AB5FC7-1DC6-11D9-9966-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 13, 2004, at 10:23 PM, Roger Howard wrote: > Any recommendations for an OSX-native 3D environment generator, > something like Bryce (it's not still around, is it?)... my primary > need is for a good 3D skyscape generator (no terrain needed). Bryce is still around and (separately) I believe its original author has two world-building apps out. That said, Vue looks very good: http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Products/vue5/ In particular for skyscapes: http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Products/vue5/images/trimaran.jpg http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Gallery/Gallery.php?Index=2 - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Thu Oct 14 05:48:28 2004 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: wow. In-Reply-To: <2407CFB4-1D9C-11D9-9DC1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <2407CFB4-1D9C-11D9-9DC1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <5865CC4A-1DDF-11D9-B531-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Oct 14, 2004, at 12:47 AM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/oct/13results.html >> >> Also interesting that iPod unit sales are more than double unit Mac >> sales. > > I think it makes a lot of sense given the price difference between the > two. > Agreed, but it's impressive they've reached that point so soon after iPod was introduced. -jimbo Fantastic - Excelsior! 2 - Excelsior! Path XML Tools for Mac OS X http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun From darkshadow02 at mac.com Thu Oct 14 05:51:10 2004 From: darkshadow02 at mac.com (Darkshadow) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: 3D environment builder tools? In-Reply-To: <14B5919D-1DA4-11D9-BAA2-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> References: <24C426DE-1DA1-11D9-AFBF-0003938C8B26@mac.com> <14B5919D-1DA4-11D9-BAA2-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> Message-ID: On Oct 14, 2004, at 1:44 AM, Christopher Forsythe wrote: > > I've heard pov-ray is alright, but that it might be insane. Looks like > it's available to download too: > > http://www.povray.org/ > I wouldn't try POV-Ray - I love it, I use it, but it has a pretty big learning curve, and I'm sure there are easier things to use to make skyscrapes with. Plus, POV-Ray isn't a 3D environment, it just creates scenes. No interaction in the creation of scenes with it (though there are a few 3D modelers that will export to POV). Darkshadow (aka Mike Nickerson) From osx at nextnet.com Wed Oct 13 16:45:55 2004 From: osx at nextnet.com (osx@nextnet.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: password in Mail Message-ID: <069D60F6-1D72-11D9-BF7D-000393D46850@nextnet.com> I am unable to add a new account to Mail and use the password. I add a new email address to Mail and then put in the password but a screen pops up and says the server won't accept the password. However, the password is correct. Any ideas? Mark From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Oct 14 10:15:54 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Mail.App still SLOW In-Reply-To: References: <200410131901.i9DJ1KZT018239@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <7AC90962-1D90-11D9-8279-000A95A637EC@verio.net> Message-ID: at 2004-10-14, 1:30 PM +0900, they whom i call fleep@accesstech.com wrote: >Also I agree with Jeremy that Mail.app is slow. Compared to Eudora which I >use due to the fact i can re-edit the from address on the fly (sort of >spoofing the from address - very handy when dealing with foreign names >people mistype that get bounced). note that this doesn't change the Return-path: header, which is particularly relevant to bounces.. to modify the return path, you need to create a new personality.. i have a spare personality which i edit as needed for this purpose -- steve harley From mmark at fivespeed.com Thu Oct 14 10:55:46 2004 From: mmark at fivespeed.com (Mason Mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Anyone know how to combine SSH and AFP for a secure remote disk share? In-Reply-To: References: <470F2F77-1C60-11D9-89FA-000A95BAABE6@mac.com> Message-ID: <46A86B43-1E0A-11D9-B694-000D93397272@fivespeed.com> An alternative you might consider (if you will excuse a blatant but topical plug) is our iGet file transfer tool: http://www.fivespeed.com/iget In addition to fully supporting Mac files like AppleShare does, it's SSH implementation works and does keep *all* of your data encrypted, and it has a few other nifty features for doing what you are talking about (accessing your files on your other computer via SSH). Functionally it is more like FTP than AppleShare (by which I mean that it doesn't mount remote volumes as hard disks). Best regards, -- Mason Mark Five Speed Software, Inc. On Oct 12, 2004, at 8:32 AM, Dave Schroeder wrote: > Foe what it's worth, the username/password exchange is secure. The > only thing that's "insecure" is the data itself. So unless you're > worried about someone sniffing your Word documents or MP3s, or you > have critical confidential/secret or personal/financial data that you > access on the server that must be protected, you don't need to worry > about SSH, because the username/password exchange is secure. > > Also, AFP over SSH is only supported by Mac OS X Server, though this > whitepaper describes how to do it between any two machines: > > http://www.corsaire.com/white-papers/040622-securing-mac-os-x.pdf > > - Dave > > On Oct 12, 2004, at 10:06 AM, Michael A. Crawford wrote: > >> When I connect my laptop to my server's AFP share I get a dialog >> saying that it cannot connect using SSH. It then allows me to >> connect with 'reduced security', which works, but I'd like not to run >> in the open. >> >> -Michael From gkreme at gmail.com Thu Oct 14 10:58:23 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google ListKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:35:54 -0400, Scott Anguish wrote: > On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:33 PM, Google ListKreme wrote: > > As for security, my own wireless network is intentionally wide open. > I run Macs, I'm not worried about crackers when there are millions of > PCs out there. > > You don't need to worry about crackers perhaps (and that's a big > perhaps), but you're positioning yourself as a prime injector for SPAM > and general lack of privacy. Far less of a risk than running Windows. Besides, I'm not running local mailservers, so someone can't dump mail out via my machines. As for privacy, other than web browsing, most everything runs over ssh. Then there's the issue that someone has to be IN the house or, at best, on the back patio in order to connect to my WAPt instead of either neighbor's WAP... I'm not worried. Leaving it open and securing the machines is a lot easier than trying to secure the wifi. -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From gkreme at gmail.com Thu Oct 14 11:03:28 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google ListKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <416C8257.8090001@borderware.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <5E064166-1CA7-11D9-8FB6-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <416C8257.8090001@borderware.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:18:15 -0400, Bruce Walker wrote: > Or, to put it another way, a small > WLAN with four active users is almost certain to be cracked with two > weeks of eavesdropping. Bwahahahahahahaha. Ahem. Sorry, but I can just imagine some geek sitting outside Jonathan's house for two or three weeks. And whilst it is true that the same method is used to crack a longer password, it also TAKES LONGER to do. 5-10 million packets of security is more than sufficient for the vast majority of users. Fine, it's not good enough for a business, I'll concede that. but we're not talking about a business wifi, are we? -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From gkreme at gmail.com Thu Oct 14 11:08:57 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google ListKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:18:22 -0500, Jonathan G. Ballard wrote: > This brings up a related question, is there a way to add "Extreme" > 802.11g networking to a G4 DP500? Yes, you can spend a LOT of money ona Mac Compatible 11g card (last I priced them they were $100+) or you can get yourself a 802.11g access point that connects to your G4 via ethernet. To your G4 it looks like a standard ethernet connection. I did this for quite a while with my G4 DP500. -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From bmw at borderware.com Thu Oct 14 11:15:59 2004 From: bmw at borderware.com (Bruce Walker) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <5E064166-1CA7-11D9-8FB6-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <416C8257.8090001@borderware.com> Message-ID: <416EC25F.3040104@borderware.com> Google ListKreme wrote: >On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:18:15 -0400, Bruce Walker wrote: > > >>Or, to put it another way, a small >>WLAN with four active users is almost certain to be cracked with two >>weeks of eavesdropping. >> >> > >Bwahahahahahahaha. Ahem. Sorry, but I can just imagine some geek >sitting outside Jonathan's house for two or three weeks. > > I can eavesdrop on a neighbor's Linksys from the PowerBook in the comfort of my bedroom office. I live in an area where there are only houses with 60x120 foot lots, so he's some distance away. A colleague in an apartment building "sees" 4-5 WiFi's from his apartment. He has admitted to stealing bandwidth from them (downloading stuff thru Kazaa). (I know my neighbor is using WEP because I ran iStumbler.) >And whilst it is true that the same method is used to crack a longer >password, it also TAKES LONGER to do. > > Not so, that's a main point of the article. It doesn't matter if you use the 128 or 64 bit WEP keys: they crack with the same amount of collected encrypted traffic, due to a bug in WEP. >5-10 million packets of security is more than sufficient for the vast >majority of users. > > Really? That's a couple of downloaded ISO images. A week's worth of streaming radio? >Fine, it's not good enough for a business, I'll concede that. but >we're not talking about a business wifi, are we? > > Home office? From joar at joar.com Thu Oct 14 11:23:12 2004 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: password in Mail In-Reply-To: <069D60F6-1D72-11D9-BF7D-000393D46850@nextnet.com> References: <069D60F6-1D72-11D9-BF7D-000393D46850@nextnet.com> Message-ID: <1B5C4392-1E0E-11D9-A694-000393D4AB70@joar.com> On 2004-10-14, at 01.45, osx@nextnet.com wrote: > I am unable to add a new account to Mail and use the password. > I add a new email address to Mail and then put in the password but a > screen pops up and says the server won't accept the password. However, > the password is correct. How do you know that the password is correct? Perhaps your postmaster gave you one that doesn't work, or perhaps it has expired? Have you asked your postmaster / ISP for help - they would be best suited to answer your questions, as they can check the mail server logs for info on why you were refused to log in? What type of account is this? Are you using SSL to connect? If so, have you verified that you're using the correct port? Have you checked that you send the password in the right form (password, MD5... Check the Authentication pop up)? j o a r From gkreme at gmail.com Thu Oct 14 11:27:21 2004 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google ListKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Subject Threading (was Re: Mail.App still SLOW) In-Reply-To: <152A84A6-1D60-11D9-BAA2-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <8A93B436-1CA6-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <152A84A6-1D60-11D9-BAA2-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:37:29 -0500, Christopher Forsythe wrote: > It annoys me to no end when someone does this. It's a new thread if the > subject changes. No it's not. > Mail should see that, that's how the sender meant it, No, it shouldn't. Perhaps, PERHAPS mail could have a (disablable) option to ask if you want a new thread when you change the subject. -- ::::== ==:::: :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise :: From chris at growl.info Thu Oct 14 11:32:18 2004 From: chris at growl.info (Christopher Forsythe) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Subject Threading (was Re: Mail.App still SLOW) In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <8A93B436-1CA6-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <152A84A6-1D60-11D9-BAA2-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> Message-ID: <416EC632.602@growl.info> Google ListKreme wrote: >On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:37:29 -0500, Christopher Forsythe > wrote: > > >>It annoys me to no end when someone does this. It's a new thread if the >>subject changes. >> >> > >No it's not. > > > >>Mail should see that, that's how the sender meant it, >> >> > >No, it shouldn't. > >Perhaps, PERHAPS mail could have a (disablable) option to ask if you >want a new thread when you change the subject. > > > I haven't seen an instance on any mailing list or in any email ever (and I get a ton) where the functionality you are saying is what the sender wanted or implied. From shawnce at mac.com Thu Oct 14 11:57:03 2004 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Subject Threading (was Re: Mail.App still SLOW) In-Reply-To: <416EC632.602@growl.info> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <8A93B436-1CA6-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <152A84A6-1D60-11D9-BAA2-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> <416EC632.602@growl.info> Message-ID: On Oct 14, 2004, at 11:32 AM, Christopher Forsythe wrote: > Google ListKreme wrote: > >> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:37:29 -0500, Christopher Forsythe >> wrote: >> >>> It annoys me to no end when someone does this. It's a new thread if >>> the >>> subject changes. >>> >> >> No it's not. >> >> >>> Mail should see that, that's how the sender meant it, >>> >> >> No, it shouldn't. >> >> Perhaps, PERHAPS mail could have a (disablable) option to ask if you >> want a new thread when you change the subject. >> >> > I haven't seen an instance on any mailing list or in any email ever > (and I get a ton) where the functionality you are saying is what the > sender wanted or implied. Do you open your eyes often then? ;-) Look around the Apple list archives (in threading mode)... For example... Or as Scott pointed our earlier... Note how the email threads are nested relative to each other. This is NOT done by subject. -Shawn From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Oct 14 12:30:59 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Subject Threading (was Re: Mail.App still SLOW) In-Reply-To: <416EC632.602@growl.info> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <23461EFC-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <2B7DCD12-1C8F-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <6D7766BE-1CA4-11D9-A96B-000393907950@mia.net> <8A93B436-1CA6-11D9-A441-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <152A84A6-1D60-11D9-BAA2-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> <416EC632.602@growl.info> Message-ID: at 2004-10-14, 1:32 PM -0500, they whom i call Christopher Forsythe wrote: >Google ListKreme wrote: > >>On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:37:29 -0500, Christopher Forsythe >> wrote: >>>Mail should see that, that's how the sender meant it, >> >>No, it shouldn't. >> >>Perhaps, PERHAPS mail could have a (disablable) option to ask if you >>want a new thread when you change the subject. >> >I haven't seen an instance on any mailing list or in any email ever >(and I get a ton) where the functionality you are saying is what the >sender wanted or implied. i have seen many instances of it, but i think on some lists more often a subject change does indicate a new thread.. i don't think its worth trying to force a consensus on how to thread properly until email clients strongly reinforce the internal logic of threads.. we can't expect the general public to easily grasp that there's a hidden id in each message which creates a link into a tree structure -- steve harley From sanguish at digifix.com Thu Oct 14 13:12:56 2004 From: sanguish at digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> Message-ID: <6FAC8793-1E1D-11D9-84D1-000393D59866@digifix.com> On Oct 14, 2004, at 1:58 PM, Google ListKreme wrote: > On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:33 PM, Google ListKreme wrote: > > As for security, my own wireless network is intentionally wide open.? > I run Macs, I'm not worried about crackers when there are millions of > PCs out there. > > ? ? You don't need to worry about crackers perhaps (and that's a big > perhaps), but you're positioning yourself as a prime injector for SPAM > and general lack of privacy. > > Far less of a risk than running Windows. >> On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:33 PM, Google ListKreme wrote: >> >> As for security, my own wireless network is intentionally wide open.? >> I run Macs, I'm not worried about crackers when there are millions of >> PCs out there. >> >> ? ? You don't need to worry about crackers perhaps (and that's a big >> perhaps), but you're positioning yourself as a prime injector for SPAM >> and general lack of privacy. > > Far less of a risk than running Windows. ??? Actually, not at all. ??? you still have unecrypted packets flying back and forth. > Besides, I'm not running > local mailservers, so someone can't dump mail out via my machines. ??? bull.? They can use your connection to dump out the mail.. and you'll get blamed even if it's not your machine. ??? They can use YOUR connection to infect neighbourhood PC machines. > As > for privacy, other than web browsing, most everything runs over ssh.? > Then there's the issue that someone has to be IN the house or, at > best, on the back patio in order to connect to my WAPt instead of > either neighbor's WAP... I'm not worried.? Leaving it open and > securing the machines is a lot easier than trying to secure the wifi. On Oct 14, 2004, at 1:58 PM, Google ListKreme wrote: On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:33 PM, Google ListKreme wrote: As for security, my own wireless network is intentionally wide open.? I run Macs, I'm not worried about crackers when there are millions of PCs out there. ? ? You don't need to worry about crackers perhaps (and that's a big perhaps), but you're positioning yourself as a prime injector for SPAM and general lack of privacy. Far less of a risk than running Windows. ??? Actually, not at all. ??? you still have unecrypted packets flying back and forth. Besides, I'm not running local mailservers, so someone can't dump mail out via my machines. ??? bull.? They can use your connection to dump out the mail.. and you'll get blamed even if it's not your machine. ??? They can use YOUR connection to infect neighbourhood PC machines. As for privacy, other than web browsing, most everything runs over ssh.? Then there's the issue that someone has to be IN the house or, at best, on the back patio in order to connect to my WAPt instead of either neighbor's WAP... I'm not worried.? Leaving it open and securing the machines is a lot easier than trying to secure the wifi. From rogerhoward at mac.com Thu Oct 14 13:21:56 2004 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> Message-ID: On Oct 14, 2004, at 10:58 AM, Google ListKreme wrote: > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:35:54 -0400, Scott Anguish > wrote: >> On Oct 12, 2004, at 3:33 PM, Google ListKreme wrote: >> >> As for security, my own wireless network is intentionally wide open. >> I run Macs, I'm not worried about crackers when there are millions of >> PCs out there. >> >> You don't need to worry about crackers perhaps (and that's a big >> perhaps), but you're positioning yourself as a prime injector for SPAM >> and general lack of privacy. > > Far less of a risk than running Windows. Besides, I'm not running > local mailservers, so someone can't dump mail out via my machines. As > for privacy, other than web browsing, most everything runs over ssh. > Then there's the issue that someone has to be IN the house or, at > best, on the back patio in order to connect to my WAPt instead of > either neighbor's WAP... I'm not worried. Leaving it open and > securing the machines is a lot easier than trying to secure the wifi. Not arguing with your decisions, but I guarantee (unless your house is surrounded by lead walls?) that I wouldn't have to be on your property to get a signal... I've got a cantenna that mounts nicely out of the sunroof in my car - great when I'm on the road and need access in a pinch (and when there's no Starbucks around - rare these days, but it does happen). -R From shawnce at mac.com Thu Oct 14 13:26:34 2004 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <6FAC8793-1E1D-11D9-84D1-000393D59866@digifix.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <6FAC8793-1E1D-11D9-84D1-000393D59866@digifix.com> Message-ID: <578A54CA-1E1F-11D9-BE7F-000A95A6C778@mac.com> Nice duplication in the email message you must be using a alpha version of Mail.app from a certain future OS... :-) Humm... Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v675) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.675) ...and I am just using v619... -Shawn From toble at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Oct 14 14:16:43 2004 From: toble at blueyonder.co.uk (Toby Morris) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <6FAC8793-1E1D-11D9-84D1-000393D59866@digifix.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <6FAC8793-1E1D-11D9-84D1-000393D59866@digifix.com> Message-ID: <58BD2250-1E26-11D9-B2FC-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> I use WAP on a closed network but I still get bounced email messages coming back which purport to be from my address On 14 Oct 2004, at 21:12, Scott Anguish wrote: > > As > for privacy, other than web browsing, most everything runs over ssh.? > Then there's the issue that someone has to be IN the house or, at > best, on the back patio in order to connect to my WAPt instead of > either neighbor's WAP... I'm not worried.? Leaving it open and > securing the machines is a lot easier than trying to secure the wifi. From sanguish at digifix.com Thu Oct 14 14:19:44 2004 From: sanguish at digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <58BD2250-1E26-11D9-B2FC-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <6FAC8793-1E1D-11D9-84D1-000393D59866@digifix.com> <58BD2250-1E26-11D9-B2FC-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: On Oct 14, 2004, at 5:16 PM, Toby Morris wrote: > I use WAP on a closed network but I still get bounced email messages > coming back which purport to be from my address On Oct 14, 2004, at 5:16 PM, Toby Morris wrote: I use WAP on a closed network but I still get bounced email messages coming back which purport to be from my address that's something entirely different.? that's idiot PC users with infected machines.? it sends out mail to other people claiming to be from you.. you get the bounces. I have email addresses that I will never give to users who use the PC. From lloyd at foolswisdom.com Thu Oct 14 14:36:31 2004 From: lloyd at foolswisdom.com (Lloyd Budd) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: create & modify date on downloaded and extracted files ? In-Reply-To: References: <81CAC34D-B895-11D8-91A6-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> Message-ID: <1D557C03-1E29-11D9-BD95-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 7-Jun-04, at 15:23, Google Kreme wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:15:27 -0400, Lloyd Budd > wrote: >> What I would like would be for the create date on extracted files to >> be >> the date and time it was created on my system . > > Set Stuffit expander to always put extracted files in a folder. That > folder will be timestamped with the time of the extraction. Thank you ! Expander Preferences -> Destination -> Create Surrounding Folder : Always does the trick well . On a similar note , does any one know of a free (gratis) browser that for download sets the modify date to when a file was last "updated" and the create date to when downloaded ? Firefox : both are set to when downloaded Safari : both are set to when last "updated" / ?origin created Thanks again , Lloyd From toble at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Oct 14 14:53:23 2004 From: toble at blueyonder.co.uk (Toby Morris) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <6FAC8793-1E1D-11D9-84D1-000393D59866@digifix.com> <58BD2250-1E26-11D9-B2FC-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: <783927E2-1E2B-11D9-B2FC-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> ah. I thought that disabling 'load images' would prevent anything getting at my address book On 14 Oct 2004, at 22:19, Scott Anguish wrote: > On Oct 14, 2004, at 5:16 PM, Toby Morris wrote: > > I use WAP on a closed network but I still get bounced email messages > coming back which purport to be from my address > > > that's something entirely different.? that's idiot PC users with > infected machines.? it sends out mail to other people claiming to be > from you.. you get the bounces. > > I have email addresses that I will never give to users who use the PC. From larkost at softhome.net Thu Oct 14 14:51:33 2004 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <58BD2250-1E26-11D9-B2FC-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <6FAC8793-1E1D-11D9-84D1-000393D59866@digifix.com> <58BD2250-1E26-11D9-B2FC-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: <369CB6F8-1E2B-11D9-A830-003065C12208@softhome.net> This has nothing to do with WAP... it is just viruses and/or spammers spoofing your email address in the from header. Since there is no real verification in SMTP for the receiving system (of the sender) this is quite easy to do. Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net On Oct 14, 2004, at 5:16 PM, Toby Morris wrote: > I use WAP on a closed network but I still get bounced email messages > coming back which purport to be from my address From shawnce at mac.com Thu Oct 14 15:13:24 2004 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Nice simple graph of iTMS sales... Message-ID: <44115089-1E2E-11D9-BE7F-000A95A6C778@mac.com> Sales look almost to be keeping up at an exponential rate but slowly transition to more linear growth. -Shawn From shoop at mac.com Thu Oct 14 15:47:06 2004 From: shoop at mac.com (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <82840D32-1D6F-11D9-AF1E-000D93AD3284@mac.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <3ADEC1E8-1C5C-11D9-A04D-000A95DF22C2@toddwarfel.com> <7AFA01A5-1C84-11D9-B300-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <366398FA-1D0B-11D9-A5B8-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> <82840D32-1D6F-11D9-AF1E-000D93AD3284@mac.com> Message-ID: At 4:27 PM -0700 10/13/04, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >On Oct 13, 2004, at 12:31 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > >>People also say schizophrenic to describe people with multiple >>personalities, but that doesn't make it right either. People are >>dumb, as proven by those who think network security so invaluable. >> >And also, presumably, by those lacking the power of speech engaging >in floccinaucinihilipilification... mmalcolm, did you go to Eton? -- -dhan From jonathanballard at mac.com Thu Oct 14 16:17:49 2004 From: jonathanballard at mac.com (Jonathan G. Ballard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> Message-ID: <43C2E950-1E37-11D9-A408-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> On Oct 14, 2004, at 1:08 PM, Google ListKreme wrote: > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:18:22 -0500, Jonathan G. Ballard > wrote: >> This brings up a related question, is there a way to add "Extreme" >> 802.11g networking to a G4 DP500? > > Yes, you can spend a LOT of money ona Mac Compatible 11g card (last I > priced them they were $100+) or you can get yourself a 802.11g access > point that connects to your G4 via ethernet. To your G4 it looks like > a standard ethernet connection. I did this for quite a while with my > G4 DP500. Yes. I've thought about just doing that. But, correct me if I'm wrong, the Airport Express won't do this; then I'm back to justifying spending over $100 more for the Airport Extreme versus one of the offerings from Netgear or Linksys. Heck with the security sub-thread that's been started, and talk of hackers hanging outside my house for two weeks trying to break into my network, I'm seriously reconsidering getting out the drill and the wire and braving my crawl space! ;-) Getting a (free) education on wireless networking, Jon From osx at nextnet.com Thu Oct 14 18:44:18 2004 From: osx at nextnet.com (osx@nextnet.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: creating logs Message-ID: How do I create a log? I am trying to add php. I turned on logging and directed it to /var/log/php.log When I go to the log directory php.log does not exist. do I have to create it there? How? Mike From scott at maxify.com Thu Oct 14 18:46:21 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Intel Cancels 4GHz Pentium Message-ID: <0390525C-1E4C-11D9-8C54-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> The follows other chip cancellations by Intel and Sun. ------ The main change is that the 4GHz Pentium 4--scheduled for release early next year and originally due out at the end of 2004--won't come out at all now. Instead, Intel will boost performance on its chips by increasing the size of the cache, a pool of memory located on the processor for rapid data access. [...] The chipmaker also intends to emphasize more sharply technologies such as 64-bit functionality, HyperThreading and a security technology called LaGrande. It will also increase development efforts on dual-core chips with the goal of a 2005 release. [...] Intel President Paul Otellini, who wants the company to move away from focusing on increases in chip speed, measured in megahertz http://news.com.com/Intel+kills+plans+for+4GHz+Pentium/2100-1006_3 -5409816.html (via OS News.com) ------ - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From jmjarrett at mac.com Thu Oct 14 20:36:33 2004 From: jmjarrett at mac.com (Micah Jarrett) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: 3D environment builder tools? In-Reply-To: <24C426DE-1DA1-11D9-AFBF-0003938C8B26@mac.com> References: <24C426DE-1DA1-11D9-AFBF-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: <68A3755C-1E5B-11D9-A848-000A95CF47AE@mac.com> MojoWorld 3 http://www.pandromeda.com Don't know anything about it but the gallery pictures look nice. micah On Oct 14, 2004, at 1:23 AM, Roger Howard wrote: > Any recommendations for an OSX-native 3D environment generator, > something like Bryce (it's not still around, is it?)... my primary > need is for a good 3D skyscape generator (no terrain needed). > > thx > > roger howard > email & im @ > photos @ > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From scott at maxify.com Thu Oct 14 21:19:50 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: 3D environment builder tools? In-Reply-To: <68A3755C-1E5B-11D9-A848-000A95CF47AE@mac.com> References: <24C426DE-1DA1-11D9-AFBF-0003938C8B26@mac.com> <68A3755C-1E5B-11D9-A848-000A95CF47AE@mac.com> Message-ID: <74F3CF55-1E61-11D9-8C54-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 14, 2004, at 8:36 PM, Micah Jarrett wrote: > MojoWorld 3 > http://www.pandromeda.com > > Don't know anything about it but the gallery pictures look nice. I had never heard of this thing before, but it looks really interesting. Great find. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From hts at hts.com.au Thu Oct 14 21:36:36 2004 From: hts at hts.com.au (Steve Farmer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: creating logs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, From a php.ini file log_errors = On ; Log errors into a log file (server-specific log, stderr, or error_log (below)) ; As stated above, you're strongly advised to use error logging in place of ; error displaying on production web sites. track_errors = Off ; Store the last error/warning message in $php_errormsg (boolean) error_log = /www/logs/php.log ; log errors to specified file HTH Steve >How do I create a log? >I am trying to add php. I turned on logging and directed it to >/var/log/php.log >When I go to the log directory php.log does not exist. do I have to >create it there? How? > >Mike > >_______________________________________________ >MacOSX-talk mailing list >MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk -- ------------------------------------------------- Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. -Abraham Lincoln, U.S. president (1809-1865) Support free speech; visit http://www.efa.org.au/ Heads Together Software Pty Ltd http://www.hts.com.au Email: hts@hts.com.au Tel: +61 403 062 000 From Osx at nextnet.com Thu Oct 14 22:09:00 2004 From: Osx at nextnet.com (Osx@nextnet.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: creating logs Message-ID: I was looking at the same php.ini file and entered /var/log/php.log as the location for the file. But this didn't create the file there. Was it supposed to? Mark ...... Original Message ....... On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:36:36 +1000 Steve Farmer wrote: >Hi, > > From a php.ini file > >log_errors = On ; Log errors into a log file >(server-specific log, stderr, or error_log (below)) > ; As stated above, >you're strongly advised to use error logging in place of > ; error displaying on >production web sites. >track_errors = Off ; Store the last error/warning >message in $php_errormsg (boolean) > >error_log = /www/logs/php.log ; log errors to specified file > >HTH >Steve >>How do I create a log? >>I am trying to add php. I turned on logging and directed it to >>/var/log/php.log >>When I go to the log directory php.log does not exist. do I have to >>create it there? How? >> >>Mike >> >>_______________________________________________ >>MacOSX-talk mailing list >>MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >>http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > >-- >------------------------------------------------- >Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's >character, give him power. >-Abraham Lincoln, U.S. president (1809-1865) >Support free speech; visit http://www.efa.org.au/ > >Heads Together Software Pty Ltd http://www.hts.com.au >Email: hts@hts.com.au Tel: +61 403 062 000 From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Thu Oct 14 22:11:39 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: ati x800 Message-ID: <20041015051139.GD380@4321.tv> http://www.macworld.com/news/2004/10/14/ati/index.php Graphics card and chip maker ATI Technologies ... has quietly unveiled a new Mac-compatible graphics card that can drive Apple's 30-inch Cinema Display ... What's more, the card occupies a single slot -- Nvidia's GeForce 6800 Ultra card occupies two slots because of its large cooling assembly. No price given, tho. -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From toble at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Oct 15 01:02:59 2004 From: toble at blueyonder.co.uk (Toby Morris) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <6FAC8793-1E1D-11D9-84D1-000393D59866@digifix.com> <58BD2250-1E26-11D9-B2FC-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> <783927E2-1E2B-11D9-B2FC-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: Thanks Scott, On 15 Oct 2004, at 06:12, Scott Anguish wrote: > it's not getting at your address book, it's getting at the addressbook > of friends who have PCs that have you in their address book. > > this is all happening on the other people's machines.. not your mac From pelorus at mac.com Fri Oct 15 01:22:29 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <6FAC8793-1E1D-11D9-84D1-000393D59866@digifix.com> <58BD2250-1E26-11D9-B2FC-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: <5A7F000C-1E83-11D9-A85F-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 14 Oct 2004, at 22:19, Scott Anguish wrote: > On Oct 14, 2004, at 5:16 PM, Toby Morris wrote: > >> I use WAP on a closed network but I still get bounced email messages >> coming back which purport to be from my address > > > that's something entirely different.? that's idiot PC users with > infected machines.? it sends out mail to other people claiming to be > from you.. you get the bounces. I don't understand. I thought you and Dan were establishing that Lewis' unsecured Wi-Fi was the source of all unsolicited email - or at least a greater threat than unprotected Windows machines... I'm so confused.... M From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Fri Oct 15 01:52:09 2004 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: wow. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041015085209.GC413@Dark-Age.local> On Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 12:16:03AM -0400, Jim Rankin wrote: : : 37% year over year increase in revenue. : : Year over year profit more than doubled. : : 500% year over year increase in unit iPod sales. : : 95% year over year increase in retail store revenues. : : http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/oct/13results.html Apple's financials must be sinking in because I haven't seen any mainstream media articles use the "beleaguered" in some time. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From kcall at mac.com Fri Oct 15 09:17:37 2004 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: hard drive clicking ? power supply? new G5 Message-ID: I just got a Dual 2.5 this week and I'm noticing a steady clicking sound, faint, but noticeable -- at about 1/2 second intervals. I've heard this type of thing coming from an old, external FW drive I used to use. The clicking mostly occurred when I was running a CoreAudio app. Right now, Mail and Safari are the only apps running and the clicking is there. I did a search online at MacOSXHints and at MacFIXIT . Some suggest this might be the power supply ? Has anyone else come across this clicking problem? K From justmike at openprojects.rarcoa.com Fri Oct 15 09:37:51 2004 From: justmike at openprojects.rarcoa.com (Michael Bytnar) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: hard drive clicking ? power supply? new G5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041015163751.GB22832@openprojects.rarcoa.com> You may have a failing hard drive, or a NAP mode chirping. Open Applications -> Utilities -> Disk Utility. Click on your drives, and make sure that if there is a S.M.A.R.T. reading, that it says Normal. If this checks out, go to xlr8yourmac.com and look for the NAP mode article(s). http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G5/G5_noise_tips.html --Mike On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 09:17:37AM -0700, Kevin Callahan wrote: > I just got a Dual 2.5 this week and I'm noticing a steady clicking > sound, faint, but noticeable -- at about 1/2 second intervals. I've > heard this type of thing coming from an old, external FW drive I used > to use. The clicking mostly occurred when I was running a CoreAudio > app. > > Right now, Mail and Safari are the only apps running and the clicking > is there. I did a search online at MacOSXHints and at MacFIXIT . > Some suggest this might be the power supply ? Has anyone else come > across this clicking problem? > > K > > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From sanguish at digifix.com Fri Oct 15 10:51:02 2004 From: sanguish at digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Netgear vs. Airport Extreme In-Reply-To: <5A7F000C-1E83-11D9-A85F-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> References: <118F0FF0-1BF1-11D9-AE2F-000A95D4B4E2@mac.com> <5070DA1C-1C8E-11D9-867A-000393D59866@digifix.com> <6FAC8793-1E1D-11D9-84D1-000393D59866@digifix.com> <58BD2250-1E26-11D9-B2FC-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> <5A7F000C-1E83-11D9-A85F-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Oct 15, 2004, at 4:22 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: > I don't understand. > > I thought you and Dan were establishing that Lewis' unsecured Wi-Fi > was the source of all unsolicited email - or at least a greater threat > than unprotected Windows machines... > ??? No.? But there is an issue of responsibility to ensure that your unprotected Wi-Fi point isn't used as an injection point by others.?? > > I'm so confused.... On Oct 15, 2004, at 4:22 AM, Matt Johnston wrote: I don't understand. I thought you and Dan were establishing that Lewis' unsecured Wi-Fi was the source of all unsolicited email - or at least a greater threat than unprotected Windows machines... ??? No.? But there is an issue of responsibility to ensure that your unprotected Wi-Fi point isn't used as an injection point by others.?? I'm so confused.... ??? Toby asked a question in this thread, it was answered. It's unrelated. From dave at difference.com.au Fri Oct 15 11:55:12 2004 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: legal accounting software? Message-ID: Anyone care to recommend Mac OS X based accounting software suitable for a legal office? Cheers David From das at doit.wisc.edu Fri Oct 15 12:46:46 2004 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: legal accounting software? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You may be interested in http://www.macattorney.com/ - Dave On Oct 15, 2004, at 1:55 PM, David Cake wrote: > Anyone care to recommend Mac OS X based accounting software suitable > for a legal office? > Cheers > David > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From osx at nextnet.com Fri Oct 15 14:11:56 2004 From: osx at nextnet.com (osx@nextnet.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: converting XP outlook to OS X Message-ID: Does anyone know how to convert XP Outlook files (mail, calendar, etc) into OS X Entourage files? Mark From mark at bbprojects.net Fri Oct 15 14:29:54 2004 From: mark at bbprojects.net (Mark Smith) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: legal accounting software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David Cake wrote: > Anyone care to recommend Mac OS X based accounting software >suitable for a legal office? If you mean general book keeping software rather than something specially tailored to the legal profession, then I would recommend one of the MoneyWorks packages from cognito. Which package suits will depend on the size of the business and the depth of accounting needing to be done: mark. From treadway1 at llnl.gov Fri Oct 15 14:42:43 2004 From: treadway1 at llnl.gov (Thomas 'Tom' R. Treadway III) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: converting XP outlook to OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2581E416-1EF3-11D9-8568-0003938ABF92@llnl.gov> Ask contact@weirdkid.com they make Emailchemy http://www.weirdkid.com/products/emailchemy/index.html they created a new pluging that converted from Outlook Express for Solaris. I was able to transfer my mailboxes to Mail. trt > Does anyone know how to convert XP Outlook files (mail, calendar, etc) > into OS X Entourage files? > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > -- Thomas R. Treadway Computer Scientist Lawrence Livermore Nat'l Lab 7000 East Avenue, L-365 Livermore, CA 94550-0611 From anita at tenon.com Fri Oct 15 16:22:26 2004 From: anita at tenon.com (Anita Holmgren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: legal accounting software? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:29 PM +0200 10/15/04, Mark Smith wrote: >David Cake wrote: > >> Anyone care to recommend Mac OS X based accounting software >>suitable for a legal office? > >If you mean general book keeping software rather than something >specially tailored to the legal profession, then I would recommend >one of the MoneyWorks packages from cognito. Which package suits >will depend on the size of the business and the depth of accounting >needing to be done: > > I recommend AccountEdge from MYOB: http://www.myob.com/us/products/accountedge/index_aene.htm -Anita > >mark. >_______________________________________________ >MacOSX-talk mailing list >MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk -- Tenon Intersystems 805-963-6983 232 Anacapa Street, #2A anita@tenon.com Santa Barbara, CA 93101 http://www.tenon.com From guy.english at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 16:38:02 2004 From: guy.english at gmail.com (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: FireWire Goofyness Message-ID: <2575927e04101516386c75a77b@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, I have two Macs here with two networks. One network is 10Mb Ethernet and hooks up to my PC with IPs handed out from my AirPort that my iBook also uses. The other network is a firewire 400 cable between my G5 and my G4. I use the G4 as a file server so like having the faster transfer speed. All is good and well and happy in Mac land until I plug in my iPod ... I attach my iPod to the front panel of the G5 and, through the magic of FireWire, it mounts happily on my G4. I was happy to find that this even happens when the G5 is turned off - the firewire just routes right through the machine and ends up with the G4. Now despite finding this cool it's really annoying me since I want my iPod to mount only on my G5. Sometimes it does ( I think it has to do with the boot order of the machines ) but when I want it to it doesn't. Now I'm not too sure how FireWire devices are supposed to behave when there are two hosts on the bus. I do know that pluging in my iSight makes *really bad things happen*. Does anyone know how I can control which hosts mount which FireWire devices? Or ... is there anyother solution that might help, like a FireWire hub or something? The G5 is running an OS build that I expect to have trouble with but I'm not sure if this is it's fault or something more general. Thanks for any help, Guy From rogerhoward at mac.com Fri Oct 15 16:43:21 2004 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: FireWire Goofyness In-Reply-To: <2575927e04101516386c75a77b@mail.gmail.com> References: <2575927e04101516386c75a77b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Oct 15, 2004, at 4:38 PM, Guy English wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I have two Macs here with two networks. One network is 10Mb > Ethernet and hooks up to my PC with IPs handed out from my AirPort > that my iBook also uses. The other network is a firewire 400 cable > between my G5 and my G4. I use the G4 as a file server so like having > the faster transfer speed. All is good and well and happy in Mac land > until I plug in my iPod ... I attach my iPod to the front panel of the > G5 and, through the magic of FireWire, it mounts happily on my G4. I > was happy to find that this even happens when the G5 is turned off - > the firewire just routes right through the machine and ends up with > the G4. > > Now despite finding this cool it's really annoying me since I want > my iPod to mount only on my G5. Sometimes it does ( I think it has to > do with the boot order of the machines ) but when I want it to it > doesn't. Now I'm not too sure how FireWire devices are supposed to > behave when there are two hosts on the bus. I do know that pluging in > my iSight makes *really bad things happen*. Does anyone know how I can > control which hosts mount which FireWire devices? Or ... is there > anyother solution that might help, like a FireWire hub or something? > The G5 is running an OS build that I expect to have trouble with but > I'm not sure if this is it's fault or something more general. Put the iPod on a separate FW bus from the IP over FireWire connection. I had the same problem before - my simple solution was to switch the iPod to a second FW card I had on the box... don't know if you have that option. Maybe there's a better way, but I didn't find one. -R From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Oct 15 20:28:39 2004 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: FireWire Goofyness In-Reply-To: References: <2575927e04101516386c75a77b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <78BC1158-1F23-11D9-AA05-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Oct 15, 2004, at 5:43 PM, Roger Howard wrote: > > On Oct 15, 2004, at 4:38 PM, Guy English wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> Now despite finding this cool it's really annoying me since I want >> my iPod to mount only on my G5. Sometimes it does ( I think it has to >> do with the boot order of the machines ) but when I want it to it >> doesn't. > Put the iPod on a separate FW bus from the IP over FireWire > connection. I had the same problem before - my simple solution was to > switch the iPod to a second FW card I had on the box... don't know if > you have that option. Maybe there's a better way, but I didn't find > one. You can send me the iPod and I will send you a firewire card. Then you won't have the problem anymore. Firewire cards that work on the mac are not expensive so I second what Roger said. This week CompUSA has 50% off the adaptec card so it is about $20 or so . Chad From guy.english at gmail.com Fri Oct 15 22:26:51 2004 From: guy.english at gmail.com (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: FireWire Goofyness In-Reply-To: <78BC1158-1F23-11D9-AA05-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <2575927e04101516386c75a77b@mail.gmail.com> <78BC1158-1F23-11D9-AA05-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <2575927e041015222629940e79@mail.gmail.com> > You can send me the iPod and I will send you a firewire card. Then you > won't have the problem anymore. Done! I've always loved this list for the people going so far out of their way to help you. Thanks! I'll head down to the shops and see what I can find cheap. I am kind of surprised to get such undefined behaviour from FW though ... what's the point of letting two hosts of the bus if they're just going to fight over all the rest of the nodes? Guy From mark at bbprojects.net Fri Oct 15 23:13:06 2004 From: mark at bbprojects.net (Mark Smith) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: legal accounting software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Anita Holmgren wrote: >At 11:29 PM +0200 10/15/04, Mark Smith wrote: >>David Cake wrote: >> >>> Anyone care to recommend Mac OS X based accounting software >>>suitable for a legal office? >> [...] >> >> > >I recommend AccountEdge from MYOB: >http://www.myob.com/us/products/accountedge/index_aene.htm I looked at this, was horrified by it, read screeds of bad press about it and then left it well alone. YMMV. From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Oct 16 00:13:50 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: FireWire Goofyness In-Reply-To: <2575927e041015222629940e79@mail.gmail.com> References: <2575927e04101516386c75a77b@mail.gmail.com> <78BC1158-1F23-11D9-AA05-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> <2575927e041015222629940e79@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: at 2004-10-16, 1:26 AM -0400, they whom i call Guy English wrote: > what's >the point of letting two hosts of the bus if they're just going to >fight over all the rest of the nodes? the point is to get IP protocol running on FireWire.. if you really need that, it would seem worth isolating the bus.. with or without IP over FireWire, you're going to have contention for the devices if you have two FireWire hosts.. the IP functionality is available only as a developer preview, btw.. since it hasn't been updated for nearly a year and a half, it seems like a low priority project -- steve harley From guy.english at gmail.com Sat Oct 16 01:14:47 2004 From: guy.english at gmail.com (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: FireWire Goofyness In-Reply-To: References: <2575927e04101516386c75a77b@mail.gmail.com> <78BC1158-1F23-11D9-AA05-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> <2575927e041015222629940e79@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2575927e041016011428bd5c49@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 01:13:50 -0600, steve harley wrote: > the point is to get IP protocol running on FireWire.. if you > really need that, it would seem worth isolating the bus.. Fair enough. > with or without IP over FireWire, you're going to have > contention for the devices if you have two FireWire hosts.. I thought there may be some pairing / affinity thing possible. I believe each FireWire device has a unique ID so it should be possible to filter this stuff at the driver level. I think. :) Haven't really looked at FireWire docs very much. > the IP functionality is available only as a developer > preview, btw.. since it hasn't been updated for nearly a > year and a half, it seems like a low priority project Uh ... I think it's shipping in Panther. Network Port Configurations -> New ... and select Built-In FireWire from the pull down. It may have got installed with my dev tools or CHUD or something but I'm pretty sure it's there in the base install. It's not a high priority for me. I'll either buy a new FireWire card or a Gigabit hub and new nic for the PC. I was just surprised at how undefiend things got. Connecting my iSight when there are two hosts will lock my machines solid or, if I'm lucky, crash the WindowServer. No, I haven't filed a bug yet and I'm not sure if it happens with shipping builds. Take care, Guy > > -- > steve harley > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From omnigroup at spacemoo.com Wed Oct 13 01:03:32 2004 From: omnigroup at spacemoo.com (Dieder Bylsma) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: FireWire Goofyness In-Reply-To: References: <2575927e04101516386c75a77b@mail.gmail.com> <78BC1158-1F23-11D9-AA05-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> <2575927e041015222629940e79@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >the IP functionality is available only as a developer >preview, btw.. since it hasn't been updated for nearly a >year and a half, it seems like a low priority project news to me... looks like it's in the standard Panther client install... seems to be an option in "network port configurations" Dieder From pelorus at mac.com Sat Oct 16 03:03:21 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: legal accounting software? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C3DDF6C-1F5A-11D9-B067-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> On 16 Oct 2004, at 07:13, Mark Smith wrote: > Anita Holmgren wrote: >>> >> >> I recommend AccountEdge from MYOB: >> http://www.myob.com/us/products/accountedge/index_aene.htm > > I looked at this, was horrified by it, read screeds of bad press about > it and then left it well alone. YMMV. We use MYOB because we're not Accountants. But our accountant is very pleased with it. It's got enough flexibility to allow us to do things they way they seem to make sense yet enough reporting and recording so that we're not leaving a trail. Does payroll, multicurrency, system builds - it's just neat. Could do with a bit more CRM but hey....what do we hire humans for anyway. M From mark at bbprojects.net Sat Oct 16 04:05:19 2004 From: mark at bbprojects.net (Mark Smith) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: legal accounting software? In-Reply-To: <9C3DDF6C-1F5A-11D9-B067-000A95AF2FCE@mac.com> Message-ID: Matt Johnston wrote: >> I looked at this, was horrified by it, read screeds of bad press about >> it and then left it well alone. YMMV. > >We use MYOB because we're not Accountants. But our accountant is very >pleased with it. \begin{rant}[unnecessary] As I said, YMMV. FWIW, I personally equate satisfaction with MYOB with satisfaction with MS Office. Call me a snob or a bigot, but thats the way I see it. Its the lowest common denominator with its singular advantage being a large installed base, though this appears to have translated to lousy customer support, format lock-in and being way behind the curve on OS features and flexibility. Sound familiar ? I'd sooner support the other guys who are trying to make something good and keep competition alive, especially when their product is better in more or less every way: I'm not an accountant either and I found MoneyWorks Cashbook to be more intuitive, more forgiving of my non-accountant status, faster, more robust, more extensible, a better OS citizen, better supported and simply a pleasure to use. The excellent printed manual that cognito ship worldwide as part of the purchase price is worth the money alone. The support is first class. These guys deserve *our* support. I don't see anything at MYOB or in their software that makes me think that they do. \end{rant} 0.02 sorry etc. mark. From pelorus at mac.com Sat Oct 16 05:36:19 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt Johnston) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: legal accounting software? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 16 Oct 2004, at 12:05, Mark Smith wrote: > I'm not an accountant either and I found MoneyWorks Cashbook to be > more intuitive, more forgiving of my non-accountant status, faster, > more robust, more extensible, a better OS citizen, better supported > and simply a pleasure to use. Well, I'm going to go have a look at it. M From mark at bbprojects.net Sat Oct 16 07:11:39 2004 From: mark at bbprojects.net (Mark Smith) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: legal accounting software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Matt Johnston wrote: >Well, I'm going to go have a look at it. In case they haven't updated the demo in while (it did lag the full version slightly when I bought about a year ago), don't be disauded by a bit of quartz missing here and there. Not the case in the full version. BTW, if you are doing a lot of payroll and/or you have complicated VAT issues and/or you want to be able to do multiple types of invoicing, you probably want to be looking at MoneyWorks Express or MoneyWorks Gold rather than MoneyWorks Cashbook. mark. From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Oct 16 09:26:54 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: FireWire Goofyness In-Reply-To: <2575927e041016011428bd5c49@mail.gmail.com> References: <2575927e04101516386c75a77b@mail.gmail.com> <78BC1158-1F23-11D9-AA05-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> <2575927e041015222629940e79@mail.gmail.com> <2575927e041016011428bd5c49@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: at 2004-10-16, 4:14 AM -0400, they whom i call Guy English wrote: >On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 01:13:50 -0600, steve harley wrote: > > with or without IP over FireWire, you're going to have >> contention for the devices if you have two FireWire hosts.. >I thought there may be some pairing / affinity thing possible. I >believe each FireWire device has a unique ID so it should be possible >to filter this stuff at the driver level. I think. :) Haven't really >looked at FireWire docs very much. without looking at the spec, my expectation is that either host would see all devices on the bus.. since the connectors on the hosts simply pass the signal through, how is a host to know which devices are, to the user's mind, "attached" to it and which to another host? regardless of IP over FireWire, having multiple hosts should be undefined with regard to storage and I/O devices a useful workaround might be to turn off the non-network FireWire drivers on a per-host, per-bus basis, so only one host sees the devices.. you might suggest that Apple implement such a toggle, but otherwise i think its a given that you shouldn't mix devices with networking > > the IP functionality is available only as a developer >> preview, btw.. since it hasn't been updated for nearly a >> year and a half, it seems like a low priority project >Uh ... I think it's shipping in Panther. you're right -- i had only paid much attention when the preview came out.. still, i think you're seeing expected behavior, not a bug -- steve harley From lists at toddwarfel.com Sat Oct 16 14:04:24 2004 From: lists at toddwarfel.com (Todd Warfel) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: legal accounting software? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My accountant uses QuickBooks. On Oct 15, 2004, at 2:55 PM, David Cake wrote: > Anyone care to recommend Mac OS X based accounting software suitable > for a legal office? > Cheers > David Cheers! Todd R. Warfel Partner, Design and Usability Specialist MessageFirst | making products easier to use -------------------------------------- Contact Info voice: (607) 339-9640 email: twarfel@messagefirst.com web: www.messagefirst.com aim: twarfel@mac.com -------------------------------------- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Sat Oct 16 17:17:34 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: dot mac sdk Message-ID: <20041017001734.GD18935@4321.tv> I noticed that iblog 1.4 (http://www.ibloggers.net/) is using a Dot Mac SDK. I can't seem to find reference to this SDK on developer.apple.com, has anyone seen it? If so, will this SDK allow for Omniweb and Safari (or other browsers) to sync up bookmarks nicely between computers? -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Sat Oct 16 16:58:37 2004 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Any way to set different 'column' preferences for different folders in Mail? Message-ID: <4B960C4E-1FCF-11D9-9D8F-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> Hi, Is there any way that I can get Mail to let me set different column preferences for different folders (Applescript, or does anybody know how to intercept whatever the -NewMailboxSelected and -SetColumnShowPreferences:(short)theColumn methods are in Mail, to modify them with APE..), or should I just move to Entourage or something else?.. This *really* seems like a big oversight.. Considering that on my 'mailing list' folders, I don't care to see the 'From' field (it is always the same), but on my Inbox, I do. Same thing with attachments, since many lists don't allow attachments. Jim From christopher.elkins at gmail.com Sat Oct 16 18:54:48 2004 From: christopher.elkins at gmail.com (Christopher Elkins) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: dot mac sdk In-Reply-To: <20041017001734.GD18935@4321.tv> References: <20041017001734.GD18935@4321.tv> Message-ID: <70b9c85204101618541c72652b@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:17:34 -0500, Brian Medley wrote: > I noticed that iblog 1.4 (http://www.ibloggers.net/) is using a > Dot Mac SDK. I can't seem to find reference to this SDK on > developer.apple.com, has anyone seen it? Yes, but you have to login to ADC in order to download it (under "Developer Tools"). > If so, will this SDK > allow for Omniweb and Safari (or other browsers) to sync up > bookmarks nicely between computers? Not really. The framework in the current SDK provides little more than an API for account management and general iDisk access. -- Christopher Elkins From osx.rand at gmail.com Sat Oct 16 19:29:07 2004 From: osx.rand at gmail.com (rand) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Any way to set different 'column' preferences for different folders in Mail? In-Reply-To: <4B960C4E-1FCF-11D9-9D8F-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> References: <4B960C4E-1FCF-11D9-9D8F-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: <7ea7adf004101619292ee00576@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:58:37 -0500, Jim Witte wrote: > Hi, > > Is there any way that I can get Mail to let me set different column > preferences for different folders (Applescript, or does anybody know > how to intercept whatever the -NewMailboxSelected and > -SetColumnShowPreferences:(short)theColumn methods are in Mail, to > modify them with APE..), or should I just move to Entourage or > something else?.. This *really* seems like a big oversight.. > Considering that on my 'mailing list' folders, I don't care to see the > 'From' field (it is always the same), but on my Inbox, I do. Same > thing with attachments, since many lists don't allow attachments. > > Jim Just enter each mailbox, set the columns they way you want them, then click into the next mail box, it remembers the setting for each mailbox. That's how it's working for me. If you want to remove the From column from one of your boxes, then right click or control click on the From column header (the word from) and un-check it. Gone. cheers rand From chad at objectwerks.com Sat Oct 16 20:49:17 2004 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: legal accounting software? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8542CC70-1FEF-11D9-AA05-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Oct 16, 2004, at 12:13 AM, Mark Smith wrote: > Anita Holmgren wrote: > >> At 11:29 PM +0200 10/15/04, Mark Smith wrote: >>> David Cake wrote: >>> >>>> Anyone care to recommend Mac OS X based accounting software >>>> suitable for a legal office? >>> > [...] >>> >>> >> >> I recommend AccountEdge from MYOB: >> http://www.myob.com/us/products/accountedge/index_aene.htm > > I looked at this, was horrified by it, read screeds of bad press about > it and then left it well alone. YMMV. I use MYOB (US). Have used it since 1995. It is a reasonable general accounting package. But it has lots of minor and a few major annoyances and is not applescriptable at all. And the data files tend to corrupt themselves. I have had a goal for the last 2 years to move to MoneyWorks (it is applescriptable, which is important as I want to tie my [almost ready to be released] Fedex shipping software in with it, as well as a CC processing app so that I have a complete system. The MoneyWorks people seems to have their heads on straight. I have chatted with their support people a few times as I tested things and they always were very helpful. The biggest reason I have not moved yet is that I have not found a block of time to test and then move everything over. It takes time and energy, both of which are oversubscribed right now... Chad From sims at ezpzapps.com Sun Oct 17 02:34:05 2004 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: 20" iMac & carryon bag Message-ID: I live on a small island in the middle of the Mediterranean, local Mac prices are a bit high plus new Mac items get here well after they get to the UK. A trip to the UK might be in the cards as a way for me to grab a 20" iMac and enjoy some London sites. Question: would the 20" iMac fit into a carryon bag? Anyone have an opinion? tia sims -- Tech Conferences http://TechieTours.com We make... iBirthday http://EZPZapps.com/iB SmartDog http://EZPZapps.com/SmartDog Kartolina http://EZPZapps.com/kartolina From mark at bbprojects.net Sun Oct 17 03:01:16 2004 From: mark at bbprojects.net (Mark Smith) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: 20" iMac & carryon bag In-Reply-To: Message-ID: sims wrote: >would the 20" iMac fit into a carryon bag? no way (you might get away with wrapping only the computer (no stand, no nothing) in bubble wrap and brwon paper and trying to convince the steward(esse)s that it was either art or medical equipment and they might let you store it up front where the bus/1st class passengers get to hang their jackets) ...but why not just check it in ? From sims at ezpzapps.com Sun Oct 17 05:10:00 2004 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: 20" iMac & carryon bag Message-ID: >Yes, it will fit. It just depends on the bag :-) ;-P > >I have been thinking about buying a 20" iMac plus a Zero Halliburton steel I'll look into dimensions for such a thing...sounds expensive. >to move it around from time to time, with maximum safety. However, >if you are just going to just buy it and get it back to your small >island in the middle of the Mediterranean once (dude, I want to got >there too, wherever it is) Ya...I have some developers coming here in Nov for a conference, listed in the ADC News (the big island is named and I'm 2 buses & 1 ferry away from that one), (Rinaldi of 'externals' fame included), I'm taking bets on how many say they want to move here. I would just go to London -not the cheapest prices, USA is not happening...I can live with the extra cost. Thanks for the comments. atb sims -- Tech Conferences http://TechieTours.com We make... iBirthday http://EZPZapps.com/iB SmartDog http://EZPZapps.com/SmartDog Kartolina http://EZPZapps.com/kartolina From sims at ezpzapps.com Sun Oct 17 05:10:17 2004 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: 20" iMac & carryon bag Message-ID: >sims wrote: > >>would the 20" iMac fit into a carryon bag? > >no way > >(you might get away with wrapping only the computer (no stand, no >nothing) in bubble wrap and brwon paper and trying to convince the >steward(esse)s that it was either art or medical equipment and they >might let you store it up front where the bus/1st class passengers >get to hang their jackets) > ...but why not just check it in ? Because I know how bags are unloaded at my destination :-/ Such an item might have...problems. If it was damaged it would be a real pain in the ***. I would, of course, unwrap it and probably put the keyboard & etc in my check-in bag. I haven't been able to view one of these machines, obviously, so I thought I'd get some opinions. Ciao sims From finlay.dobbie at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 06:00:43 2004 From: finlay.dobbie at gmail.com (Finlay Dobbie) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: dot mac sdk In-Reply-To: <70b9c85204101618541c72652b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20041017001734.GD18935@4321.tv> <70b9c85204101618541c72652b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:54:48 -0700, Christopher Elkins wrote: > On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:17:34 -0500, Brian Medley > wrote: > > If so, will this SDK > > allow for Omniweb and Safari (or other browsers) to sync up > > bookmarks nicely between computers? > > Not really. The framework in the current SDK provides little more than > an API for account management and general iDisk access. Maybe the Sync API in Tiger will let you do this? :-) (See the cryptic comments at ) -- Finlay From mdp1261 at rit.edu Sun Oct 17 10:55:30 2004 From: mdp1261 at rit.edu (Matt Penna) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: 20" iMac & carryon bag In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:34 AM +0200 10/17/04, sims wrote: >Question: would the 20" iMac fit into a carryon bag? >Anyone have an opinion? > I just got one for my parents and it's beautiful, but it's very large and thus would probably not fit under your seat, even if it's completely unwrapped. I also doubt it would survive the trip if you checked it as baggage. When it was first introduced there were some (IMHO, baseless) concerns over tipping, durability, and the like, but the machine is actually very solid. That said, it's still a computer and is reasonably delicate, so even if you keep it in its original shipping box, it's probably not going to survive the airline baggage handlers. (What will? :P ) Is it expensive to ship from the UK back to wherever you live? Carrying it with you is out, but it might be feasible to send it by FedEx or something along those lines. Matt -- Matt Penna mdp1261@rit.edu ICQ: 399825 Yahoo! Messenger: moresobaplease AIM: S0ba "The trouble with computers, of course, is that they're very sophisticated idiots." -Dr. Who From guy.english at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 14:39:57 2004 From: guy.english at gmail.com (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Using a CustomView In-Reply-To: <74994F0A-206A-11D9-B44C-000A95CC6694@anapraxis.com> References: <70E35CE6-1FE5-11D9-8A6A-000A95CC6694@anapraxis.com> <74994F0A-206A-11D9-B44C-000A95CC6694@anapraxis.com> Message-ID: <2575927e04101714393514dfac@mail.gmail.com> Hi Wes, I'm not really clear on what you're trying to do here. Are you looking to have a standard 3D editing top/side/front/camera four view type of UI? If so just make put four OpenGL views in your window and group 'em in split views if you want. Or do you really want your app to have four seperate windows that can be moved independently and "docked" to each other? If so try this ... Make a class called OpenGLWindowController. Add this: - (void) awakeFromNib { if ( [NSBundle loadNibNamed: @"OpenGLWindow"] == NO ) { // panic here ... } } This class will be the controller for each of your OpenGL views. Add your outlets and action methods to it - not the main AppController. so ... @interface OpenGLWindowController : NSObject { IBOutlet NSOpenGLView *viewPort; IBOutlet NSWindow *window; } - (void) someActionMethod: (id) sender; @end That kind of thing. Add four outlets to your main AppController ... IBOutlet OpenGLWindowController *view1; IBOutlet OpenGLWindowController *view2; ... etc ... Open the applications MainMenu.nib. Drag the OpenGLWindowController.h file into InterfaceBuilder. Find OpenGLWindowController in the class list and instantiate it four times. Goto the AppController object and wire each of the views [ view1 - view4 ] to an instance of OpenGLWindowController. In InterfaceBuilder choose File->New->Empty. Click on File's Owner and set it's Custom Class to OpenGLWindowController. Drag a window object out of the pallettes. Wire the OpenGLWindowControllers window to the window object. Drag an NSOpenGL view out of the pallette and put it in the window, make it the size of the entire window. It won't be able to cover the title bar though. Wire File's Owner viewPort to the new NSOpenGLView. Save the nib as OpenGLWindow.nib. Run the application. You should get four windows up - they'll probably be stacked ontop of each other though. They'll each have a title bar and an OpenGL context in 'em. The logic to control the views port windows goes in OpenGLWindowController - if they need to communicate look into NSNotificationCenter or in the AppControllers awakeFromNib you can write code to give each window a reference to the AppController and it can take care of passing messages between 'em. Start writing the app. :) Once you've got the actual functionality going you can come back and fine tune the way the windows work and interact. Don't know if that helps and beware that I wrote all that off the top of my head - it's not tested at all - but it's generally the correct approach. Well, kinda, you may want to look into a Document based app where each document window is an OpenGL view window. Later, Guy On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:29:17 -0400, Weston Houghton wrote: > My first priority is snapping the window while dragging, my > understanding of what you are proposing is that it would only work for > window resizing, but not dragging. My goal is less focused on the > resize of the window, but more of the dragging/arrangement of the > windows. > > As to following Apple's HUI guidelines... sure, that would be nice. But > I have a featurelist I was given, and I need to implement the features. > That being said, I think that this is a completely valid feature > request, and I want to implement it. Therefore I am researching > solutions to meet this feature. > > Wes > > > > On Oct 17, 2004, at 1:56 PM, Andreas Mayer wrote: > > > > > Am 17.10.2004 um 04:37 Uhr schrieb Weston Houghton: > > > >> I'm making a NSTexturedBackgroundWindowMask to get rid of the title > >> bar, as I'm doing live snapping of the window to the edge of the > >> screen (and eventually hopefully to each other I guess). > > > > Is this really necessary? Couldn't you just use NSWindow's > > > > - (NSSize)windowWillResize:(NSWindow *)sender > > toSize:(NSSize)proposedFrameSize > > > > delegate method? > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-dev mailing list > MacOSX-dev@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-dev > From xah at xahlee.org Sun Oct 17 15:01:09 2004 From: xah at xahlee.org (xah lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: sound in Finder Message-ID: <0D1A906F-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> is there a way to have the sound as in Mac os 8 Finder? e.g. shuuush when emptying the trash, tick-tick when dragging. Xah xah@xahlee.org http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html From xah at xahlee.org Sun Oct 17 15:04:31 2004 From: xah at xahlee.org (xah lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: mail:edit an email Message-ID: <85D394AB-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> is there a way to edit email? for example, now and then i forward email i sent to myself from my yahoo account to my xah@xahlee account. Yahoo attachs a big chunk of ads in the beginning. I want to remove them. other times, i want to get rid of html format of emails people send me for archiving. thanks. PS Xah xah@xahlee.org http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html From xah at xahlee.org Sun Oct 17 15:09:17 2004 From: xah at xahlee.org (xah lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Apple mail: mbox file size Message-ID: <2FE395AD-2089-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> what is the maximum safe size for mbox before it gets prone to corrupt or sluggish? i categorize my emails to different folders, and also remove attachments. A fairly tedious task. But i wonder with hardware and software advancements these days perhaps i should just leave all my emails in just one folder. Xah xah@xahlee.org http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html From scott at maxify.com Sun Oct 17 15:18:58 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Apple mail: mbox file size In-Reply-To: <2FE395AD-2089-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> References: <2FE395AD-2089-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> Message-ID: <8AB7924E-208A-11D9-9D53-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 17, 2004, at 3:09 PM, xah lee wrote: > what is the maximum safe size for mbox before it gets prone to corrupt > or sluggish? Not sure anybody's going to be able to give you an accurate number, as it depends on the capability of your hardware and other factors. > i categorize my emails to different folders, and also remove > attachments. A fairly tedious task. But i wonder with hardware and > software advancements these days perhaps i should just leave all my > emails in just one folder. The only way to know is just wait and see if anything gets slow. - Scott -- http://treehouseideas.com/ http://theobroma.treehouseideas.com/ [blog] From scott at maxify.com Sun Oct 17 15:20:28 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: mail:edit an email In-Reply-To: <85D394AB-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> References: <85D394AB-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> Message-ID: On Oct 17, 2004, at 3:04 PM, xah lee wrote: > is there a way to edit email? > > for example, now and then i forward email i sent to myself from my > yahoo account to my xah@xahlee account. Yahoo attachs a big chunk of > ads in the beginning. I want to remove them. > > other times, i want to get rid of html format of emails people send me > for archiving. I don't believe there's a way to do this with Mail itself, but you could probably just edit the .mbox files (carefully). - Scott From scott at maxify.com Sun Oct 17 15:21:10 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: sound in Finder In-Reply-To: <0D1A906F-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> References: <0D1A906F-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> Message-ID: On Oct 17, 2004, at 3:01 PM, xah lee wrote: > is there a way to have the sound as in Mac os 8 Finder? > > e.g. shuuush when emptying the trash, tick-tick when dragging. Emptying the trash makes a sound for me, but there's no built-in way to get other sounds. - Scott From joar at joar.com Sun Oct 17 15:40:24 2004 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: Apple mail: mbox file size In-Reply-To: <2FE395AD-2089-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> References: <2FE395AD-2089-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> Message-ID: <88B6D34C-208D-11D9-B93F-000393D4AB70@joar.com> On 2004-10-18, at 00.09, xah lee wrote: > what is the maximum safe size for mbox before it gets prone to corrupt > or sluggish? > > i categorize my emails to different folders, and also remove > attachments. A fairly tedious task. But i wonder with hardware and > software advancements these days perhaps i should just leave all my > emails in just one folder. Before I read this technote: I would have said that the file system sets the limit. Now I'm not so sure... It's probably best to stay under 2 GB per mbox, just to be on the safe side. j o a r From joar at joar.com Sun Oct 17 15:40:29 2004 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: sound in Finder In-Reply-To: <0D1A906F-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> References: <0D1A906F-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> Message-ID: <8BCDE953-208D-11D9-B93F-000393D4AB70@joar.com> On 2004-10-18, at 00.01, xah lee wrote: > is there a way to have the sound as in Mac os 8 Finder? > > e.g. shuuush when emptying the trash, tick-tick when dragging. The support there is in the system can be found here: "System Preferences > Sound > Sound Effects > Play user interface sound effects". See also: j o a r From das at doit.wisc.edu Sun Oct 17 15:46:25 2004 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: sound in Finder In-Reply-To: <0D1A906F-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> References: <0D1A906F-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> Message-ID: <5FEF9A8A-208E-11D9-8B4F-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> http://www.unsanity.com/haxies/xounds/ On Oct 17, 2004, at 5:01 PM, xah lee wrote: > is there a way to have the sound as in Mac os 8 Finder? > > e.g. shuuush when emptying the trash, tick-tick when dragging. > > Xah > xah@xahlee.org > http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From chris at growl.info Sun Oct 17 16:13:37 2004 From: chris at growl.info (Christopher Forsythe) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: mail:edit an email In-Reply-To: <85D394AB-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> References: <85D394AB-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> Message-ID: <2D0EDD9D-2092-11D9-90D5-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> http://unsanity.com/haxies/xounds will do this for ya. If you want to be able to double click the title bar for the app to turn the size of the title bar, windowshade x from the same website will do that for you. Chris On Oct 17, 2004, at 5:04 PM, xah lee wrote: > is there a way to edit email? > > for example, now and then i forward email i sent to myself from my > yahoo account to my xah@xahlee account. Yahoo attachs a big chunk of > ads in the beginning. I want to remove them. > > other times, i want to get rid of html format of emails people send me > for archiving. > > thanks. > > PS > > Xah > xah@xahlee.org > http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From chris at growl.info Sun Oct 17 16:16:29 2004 From: chris at growl.info (Christopher Forsythe) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: mail:edit an email In-Reply-To: <2D0EDD9D-2092-11D9-90D5-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> References: <85D394AB-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> <2D0EDD9D-2092-11D9-90D5-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> Message-ID: <93AD148A-2092-11D9-90D5-000393C3DBDA@growl.info> Oops that was for the sounds like mac os email. On Oct 17, 2004, at 6:13 PM, Christopher Forsythe wrote: > http://unsanity.com/haxies/xounds will do this for ya. If you want to > be able to double click the title bar for the app to turn the size of > the title bar, windowshade x from the same website will do that for > you. > > Chris > On Oct 17, 2004, at 5:04 PM, xah lee wrote: > >> is there a way to edit email? >> >> for example, now and then i forward email i sent to myself from my >> yahoo account to my xah@xahlee account. Yahoo attachs a big chunk of >> ads in the beginning. I want to remove them. >> >> other times, i want to get rid of html format of emails people send >> me for archiving. >> >> thanks. >> >> PS >> >> Xah >> xah@xahlee.org >> http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Sun Oct 17 18:45:34 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: fast email searching Message-ID: <20041018014534.GA13498@4321.tv> Hi, Today I wanted to checkout something Scott Stevenson had mentioned a while back. It was HistoryHound, but I could not remember that. All I could remember was that he wrote the email and had said "I've never seen" or somesuch in the email. Normally, I'd use grepmail for this, but I decided I'd look for an indexer to make these searches faster in the future. I found a command line program called mairix that does this (http://www.rc0.org.uk/mairix/). It searches MBox, MH, and Maildir folders. My understanding is that Mail.app currently stores it's folders in MBox format. Given this, perhaps mairix could be used to search Mail.app's folders? The searches are output in MBox, MH, or Maildir format, so if nothing else a command line program could be used to view the searches. Below are timed executions of the commands I ran to find the email Scott wrote. I do not believe the index file was cached b/c subsequent runs are much less. $ time mairix f:Stevenson Matched 422 messages mairix f:Stevenson 0.06s user 0.48s system 17% cpu 3.014 total $ time mairix f:Stevenson b:seen Matched 22 messages mairix f:Stevenson b:seen 0.12s user 0.26s system 23% cpu 1.651 total $ f:Stevenson finds all emails with Stevenson in the from field. b:seen finds all emails with seen in the body. f:Stevenson b:seen is a logical AND of the two -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From rummel at gmail.com Sun Oct 17 20:10:10 2004 From: rummel at gmail.com (C. Rummel) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: 20" iMac & carryon bag In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Would it be an option to remove the HD prior to checking it in? The box it comes in usually has quite a bit of styropore in it, so if the real shocksensitive parts are gone - why not? But than again, I still wouldn't have an all too good feeling about it... Chris From kcall at mac.com Sun Oct 17 20:12:56 2004 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:38 2005 Subject: new Apple Mini Store in SOUTH CENTER (Seattle) Message-ID: <9BB7E444-20B3-11D9-A460-000D932F9884@mac.com> Made the trek to the new Apple Mini Store in South Center (Seattle). NICE ! The floor and ceiling say "iPod". The walls say "G5" ! Let's face it folks, Apple = class! http://homepage.mac.com/kcall/PhotoAlbum109.html Kevin From steve at union.arizona.edu Mon Oct 18 00:58:13 2004 From: steve at union.arizona.edu (steve stout) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:39 2005 Subject: new Apple Mini Store in SOUTH CENTER (Seattle) In-Reply-To: <9BB7E444-20B3-11D9-A460-000D932F9884@mac.com> References: <9BB7E444-20B3-11D9-A460-000D932F9884@mac.com> Message-ID: <75E73D5C-20DB-11D9-A668-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> Oh damn... I was just down there yesterday, but didn't actually go in the mall. Now I'll have to go back. :) On Oct 17, 2004, at 8:12 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > Made the trek to the new Apple Mini Store in South Center (Seattle). > NICE ! > > The floor and ceiling say "iPod". The walls say "G5" ! > > Let's face it folks, Apple = class! > > http://homepage.mac.com/kcall/PhotoAlbum109.html > > Kevin > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From mah at jump-ing.de Mon Oct 18 01:08:06 2004 From: mah at jump-ing.de (Markus Hitter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:39 2005 Subject: fast email searching In-Reply-To: <20041018014534.GA13498@4321.tv> References: <20041018014534.GA13498@4321.tv> Message-ID: Am 18.10.2004 um 03:45 schrieb Brian Medley: > Normally, I'd use grepmail for this, but I decided I'd look for an > indexer to make these searches faster in the future. Did you try the built in search capabilities? Once all mboxes (you can search more than one at a time) are indexed, it's quite fast. > My understanding is that Mail.app currently stores it's folders in > MBox format. This is correct. If you modify the mbox file, be sure to remove all those addidtional files in the .mbox directory, however. They will be rebuilt on demand. One exception: incoming mail first goes to an individual file before it's incorporated into the main mbox file. View the mailbox for some time to get this done. HTH, Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ From lists at quernstone.com Mon Oct 18 03:13:51 2004 From: lists at quernstone.com (Jonathan Sanderson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:39 2005 Subject: dot mac sdk In-Reply-To: <20041017001734.GD18935@4321.tv> References: <20041017001734.GD18935@4321.tv> Message-ID: <686E9889-20EE-11D9-B766-000A95C8DB7E@quernstone.com> On 17 Oct 2004, at 01:17, Brian Medley wrote: > will this SDK > allow for Omniweb and Safari (or other browsers) to sync up > bookmarks nicely between computers? OmniWeb 5 already does this, but I haven't quite managed to make it work as I expect yet. -- Jonathan Sanderson 'If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter.' (Pascal) From sims at ezpzapps.com Mon Oct 18 07:30:44 2004 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (sims) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:39 2005 Subject: 20" iMac & carryon bag Message-ID: At 16:38 -0700 10/17/04, Kevin Callahan wrote: >Hi -- what island do you live on? Do you have good internet access >? dialup? broadband ? Gozo...legendary island of Calypso, almost all photos on http://TechieTours.com are from Gozo. ADSL & Cable. Was only cable until recently...for a while they had a wacko setup where they used microwave across the channel. The hot weather would screw up the microwave signal and internet suffered. Much better now with fiber optic under the channel plus they just ran another cable from the big island to Italy so we should be doing rather well soon. I have 256k ADSL in Gozo. All stores close everyday from noon until 4:30 so people can have a real lunch and then a nap....I kid you not. Really laid back...great place. Thanks to everyone who answered...I'm looking into FedEx. The 20" would be great for my desktop...my 12" iBook will turn into my traveling machine. atb sims From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Mon Oct 18 08:42:45 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:39 2005 Subject: dot mac sdk In-Reply-To: <686E9889-20EE-11D9-B766-000A95C8DB7E@quernstone.com> References: <20041017001734.GD18935@4321.tv> <686E9889-20EE-11D9-B766-000A95C8DB7E@quernstone.com> Message-ID: <20041018154245.GB13498@4321.tv> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 11:13:51AM +0100, Jonathan Sanderson wrote: > On 17 Oct 2004, at 01:17, Brian Medley wrote: > > >will this SDK > >allow for Omniweb and Safari (or other browsers) to sync up > >bookmarks nicely between computers? > > OmniWeb 5 already does this, but I haven't quite managed to make it > work as I expect yet. Really? I see the option to sync with an iDisk, but I didn't think that was the same as syncing with the bookmarks Safari sends to .Mac. Given the limitations of the current .Mac SDK I assume that's the best they can do. -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv Mon Oct 18 08:48:08 2004 From: bpm-macosx-talk at 4321.tv (Brian Medley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:39 2005 Subject: fast email searching In-Reply-To: References: <20041018014534.GA13498@4321.tv> Message-ID: <20041018154808.GC13498@4321.tv> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 10:08:06AM +0200, Markus Hitter wrote: > >Normally, I'd use grepmail for this, but I decided I'd look > >for an indexer to make these searches faster in the future. > > Did you try the built in search capabilities? Once all mboxes > (you can search more than one at a time) are indexed, it's > quite fast. I should have been more clear. I don't use Mail.app, I use Mutt. IIRC, some people have complained about the speed of Mail.app on their machines and I thought they might like to try something different for searching. -- ~`^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-., \|/ (___) \|/ _,.-=~'`^` @~./'O o`\.~@ "Knowledge is Power" /__( \___/ )__\ *PPPFFBT!* -- Francis Bacon `\__`U_/' _.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'``'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~= <____|' ^^`'~=-.,__,.-= ~'^`'~=-._.-=~'`^`'~=-._.-=~'^'~=-.,__,.-==--^'~=-.,__,.-=~'`^` From lloyd at foolswisdom.com Mon Oct 18 09:28:33 2004 From: lloyd at foolswisdom.com (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:39 2005 Subject: mail:edit an email In-Reply-To: <85D394AB-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> References: <85D394AB-2088-11D9-A84D-000A95C58224@xahlee.org> Message-ID: On 17-Oct-04, at 15:04, xah lee wrote: > is there a way to edit email? > > for example, now and then i forward email i sent to myself from my > yahoo account to my xah@xahlee account. Yahoo attachs a big chunk of > ads in the beginning. I want to remove them. > > other times, i want to get rid of html format of emails people send me > for archiving. Only way I know is moving the Message to Drafts , but then when you edit it the headers are modified . From lists at mostrom.pp.se Mon Oct 18 09:36:57 2004 From: lists at mostrom.pp.se (Jan Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mostr=F6m?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:39 2005 Subject: Looking for scanner driver Message-ID: I walked past an electronics shop today and saw a cheap scanner, a quick look at the supported systems listed OS 9 so I bought it. I do have an old OS 9 machine (on a shelf below some dust) but I would like to use this scanner with my OS X machines and there was of course no OS X software on the CD (as expected). When I connect the scanner to my OS X machine it doesn't recognize the scanner. The System Profiler sees the scanner, it says vendor id 1375, product ID 537. Neither Graphic Converter or Image Capture sees the scanner. The scanner is a Packard-Bell Diamond 2450 which according to some sources on the web is a rebranded Mustek scanner, but I can't figure out the exact model. I look around the Packard-Bell and Mustek web sites for some drivers but couldn't find any. I then looked at VueScan but it doesn't support Mustek scanners. Does anyone have some suggestions for how I can this application running under OS X? Or do I have to remove the dust from my old powerbook? jem -- Jan Erik Mostr?m www.mostrom.pp.se From lloyd at foolswisdom.com Mon Oct 18 10:02:40 2004 From: lloyd at foolswisdom.com (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:39 2005 Subject: Looking for scanner driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <85470AF8-2127-11D9-B0BD-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 18-Oct-04, at 9:36, Jan Erik Mostr?m wrote: > Packard-Bell Diamond 2450 http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html#Z-PACKARD-BELL , that scanner has "basic" functional under Linux . Depending on how "basic" that is , that likely is a good since , but not likely very good ... I would suggest removing the dust from OS 9 ;-) From lloyd at foolswisdom.com Mon Oct 18 10:09:11 2004 From: lloyd at foolswisdom.com (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:39 2005 Subject: Any way to set different 'column' preferences for different folders in Mail? In-Reply-To: <7ea7adf004101619292ee00576@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B960C4E-1FCF-11D9-9D8F-000393DC31DA@bloomington.in.us> <7ea7adf004101619292ee00576@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6E7A2A26-2128-11D9-B0BD-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 16-Oct-04, at 19:29, rand wrote: > On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:58:37 -0500, Jim Witte > wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Is there any way that I can get Mail to let me set different column >> preferences for different folders (Applescript, or does anybody know >> how to intercept whatever the -NewMailboxSelected and >> -SetColumnShowPreferences:(short)theColumn methods are in Mail, to >> modify them with APE..), or should I just move to Entourage or >> something else?.. This *really* seems like a big oversight.. >> Considering that on my 'mailing list' folders, I don't care to see the >> 'From' field (it is always the same), but on my Inbox, I do. Same >> thing with attachments, since many lists don't allow attachments. >> >> Jim > > Just enter each mailbox, set the columns they way you want them, then > click into the next mail box, it remembers the setting for each > mailbox. That's how it's working for me. > If you want to remove the From column from one of your boxes, then > right click or control click on the From column header (the word from) > and un-check it. Gone. That is not consistent with my results and some of the comments in this archive . Possibly it is dependent on POP vs IMAP , or other factors . Jim , I also have been somewhat frustrated by not having that functionality . Peace , Lloyd From larkost at softhome.net Mon Oct 18 10:13:08 2004 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:39 2005 Subject: Looking for scanner driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is a good chance that you can get it working in TWAIN mode using the SANE interface. Here is a link to the MacOS X port: http://www.ellert.se/twain-sane/ however, you do have to note that the specific backend for that scanner (gt68xx) had some problems a few versions ago, and I don't know if it was fixed in the mean time. So you might have to compile your own. But maybe you will get lucky. Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net On Oct 18, 2004, at 12:36 PM, Jan Erik Mostr?m wrote: > The scanner is a Packard-Bell Diamond 2450 which according to some > sources on > the web is a rebranded Mustek scanner, but I can't figure out the exact > model. I look around the Packard-Bell and Mustek web sites for some > drivers > but couldn't find any. > > I then looked at VueScan but it doesn't support Mustek scanners. Does > anyone > have some suggestions for how I can this application running under OS > X? From lloyd at foolswisdom.com Mon Oct 18 12:12:30 2004 From: lloyd at foolswisdom.com (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:26:39 2005 Subject: hidden web folder ? Message-ID: I have a funny one that I have never got around to figuring out . I installed the most recent update , so that leaves me @ Mac OS X 10.3.5 . I do not remember not experiencing this one . Finder -> Sidebar -> Applications or Finder -> 'Go to folder ..' , Shift + Command + g -> "/Applications" and 7 items are shown , too bad there are eight : $ pwd /Applications $ ls accessory appDocs media old productivity system trial web $ ls -d .* . .. "web" is not shown in Finder , unless I 'open /Applications/web' or its equivalent . Then the web directory will be present for some time ... Strange , but true , Ll