From kremels at kreme.com Sun Feb 1 00:02:01 2004 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:56 2005 Subject: bad memory In-Reply-To: References: <20040130060135.ITI1953.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.1 68.0.101]> <20040130133206525477.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <45BC86B3-536C-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <13166AFF-5384-11D8-8063-003065C4548E@mac.com> <85010620-5385-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: On 31 Jan 2004, at 20:51, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > On Jan 31, 2004, at 2:03 PM, Michael Caplinger wrote: > >> I'm not going to say ECC is totally pointless, but I don't think it's >> really a factor in 99.99% of situations. > > Do you buy car insurance? Why? How about life insurance? Why? It > is not really a factor in 99.99% of the situations. The failure is catastrophic in that case, and insurance will help cover the cost (or loss). ECC doesn't recover from catastrophic failure nor does it help cover the loss. > For my hosting company, we won't run any server that does not support > ECC (and we use ECC memory). (And we run 100% Athlons currently.) We > want to offer our customers that peace of mind. The cost of ECC in > modern machines is negligible, and it is worth it compared to the cost > of cleaning up afterwards. You're better off increasing the backup frequency as that is far more likely to save someone's bacon. -- One by one the bulbs burned out, like long lives come to their expected ends. From kremels at kreme.com Sun Feb 1 00:21:55 2004 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:56 2005 Subject: Au Revoir, Claris Emailer In-Reply-To: <850E291E-546C-11D8-BB2A-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> References: <850E291E-546C-11D8-BB2A-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> Message-ID: On 31 Jan 2004, at 21:10, Bill Coleman wrote: > I've started to use Mail.app, but it doesn't seem to have the same > type of features for dealing with large quantities of e-mail like > Emailer. I'm sure I'll eventually get used to it. I've found that combining procmail on the IMAP server with Mail.app gives me just about the ideal mail environment. Mail is sorted automagically into the right mailboxes, mailboxes are created by month for all my mailing lists, and any time I subscribe to a new list, everything just works with no editing. I love that. Once I don't have to deal with Mail.app's less that stellar sorting/rules interface I am only left with a few niggling details: 1) Mail.app is a lot better about updating the number of read messages in a mailbox when the number INCREASES, but is pants at noticing if the number has decreased. For example, I have a mailbox named "learn" into which I put all spam that evades my SA filters. This mail is run through sa-learn --spam and in the process is marked with a "Status: OR" (indicating it is read). Mail.app will never update the number of read messages in that mailbox unless you actually select the mailbox. Not even between restarts. This is more of an issue when I access my IMAP from multiple machines and I see a list that has 14 unread messages when I open up mail.app at home, only to find it is 14 messages that where marked new last time I used Mail.app, but have since read at work. 2) Mail.app's signature interface is still pretty lousy, but no longer produces HUGELY MASSIVE signature files. I have 124 random signatures, all are 100% text, only one or two are over 200 characters. In previous mail versions that took up several megabytes and now only takes up 87K, although the signature for this message is still stored as: RichTextSignature cnRmZAAAAAADAAAAAgAAAAcAAABUWFQucnRmAQAAAC7iAQAAKwAAAAEAAADa AQAAe1xydGYxXG1hY1xhbnNpY3BnMTAwMDBcY29jb2FydGYxMDIKe1xmb250 dGJsXGYwXGZzd2lzc1xmY2hhcnNldDc3IEhlbHZldGljYTt9CntcY29sb3J0 Ymw7XHJlZDI1NVxncmVlbjI1NVxibHVlMjU1O30KXHBhcmRcdHg1NjBcdHgx MTIwXHR4MTY4MFx0eDIyNDBcdHgyODAwXHR4MzM2MFx0eDM5MjBcdHg0NDgw XHR4NTA0MFx0eDU2MDBcdHg2MTYwXHR4NjcyMFxxbFxxbmF0dXJhbAoKXGYw XGZzMjIgXGNmMCAtLSBcCldoZW4gd2Ugd29rZSB1cCB0aGF0IG1vcm5pbmcg d2UgaGFkIG5vIHdheSBvZiBrbm93aW5nIHRoYXQgaW4gYSBtYXR0ZXIgb2Yg aG91cnMgd2UnZCBjaGFuZ2VkIHRoZSB3YXkgd2Ugd2VyZSBnb2luZy4gIFdo ZXJlIHdvdWxkIEkgYmUgbm93PyAgV2hlcmUgd291bGQgSSBiZWUgbm93IGlm IHdlJ2QgbmV2ZXIgbWV0PyAgV291bGQgSSBiZSBzaW5naW5nIHRoaXMgc29u ZyB0byBzb21lb25lIGVsc2UgaW5zdGVhZD99AQAAACMAAAABAAAABwAAAFRY VC5ydGYQAAAAAAAAALYBAAAAAAAAAAAAAA== SignatureName Something changed 4 which I simply don't understand. Why isn't there a TextSignature key to go with the RichTextSignature key? It would make dealing with signatures MUCH easier as I could edit much faster in BBedit or nvi than I can using mail's GUI. 3) there is no way to change mailboxes via the keyboard and last, but certainly not least 5) there is no "next message" option when showing a message in a window. However, in point of fact, these are minor warts on otherwise outstanding mail client. -- When we woke up that morning we had no way of knowing that in a matter of hours we'd changed the way we were going. Where would I be now? Where would I bee now if we'd never met? Would I be singing this song to someone else instead? From kremels at kreme.com Sun Feb 1 01:03:48 2004 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:56 2005 Subject: Sharing iTunes over the Internet In-Reply-To: References: <149B3B94-5340-11D8-967B-000393D00E20@nilzero.com> <6474E983-5433-11D8-BEC5-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <8BE17E16-5495-11D8-BEC5-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 31 Jan 2004, at 15:23, steve harley wrote: > it's an interesting technique -- here's the google cache of > that article (without the nested comments, unfortunately) > > www.macosxhints.com/article.php%3Fstory%3D20030602094254826> I must be doing something wrong, I couldn't get it to work. It tries to load the library (wrong name though), then gives up after about 5 minutes. Install the beacon on the client, put in the name and IP of the server (running iTunes) and that's it, right? Nothing to do on the server to get it going but enable sharing inside itunes, right? I do have 3689 punched through on the client's NAT, and the server s not firewalled/NATed. -- Man is born free, but is everywhere in chains. From jared at 23x.net Sun Feb 1 01:29:43 2004 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:56 2005 Subject: bad memory In-Reply-To: References: <20040130060135.ITI1953.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.1 68.0.101]> <20040130133206525477.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <45BC86B3-536C-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <13166AFF-5384-11D8-8063-003065C4548E@mac.com> <85010620-5385-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <2B3B804B-5499-11D8-A3E6-000A958F180A@23x.net> On 1 Feb 2004, at 04:51, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >> I'm not going to say ECC is totally pointless, but I don't think it's >> really a factor in 99.99% of situations. > > Do you buy car insurance? Why? How about life insurance? Why? It > is not really a factor in 99.99% of the situations. Jared's second rule: Analogies don't work. A) Car insurance is mandatory. B) You never see the benefits of life insurance. -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "No SPORK today. SPORK tomorrow. There's always SPORK tomorrow." From lists at drunkenbatman.com Sun Feb 1 02:58:08 2004 From: lists at drunkenbatman.com (db) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:56 2005 Subject: bad memory In-Reply-To: References: <20040130060135.ITI1953.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.1 68.0.101]> <20040130133206525477.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <45BC86B3-536C-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <13166AFF-5384-11D8-8063-003065C4548E@mac.com> <85010620-5385-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <20040201055808840079.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 01:02:01 -0700, LuKreme wrote: >> For my hosting company, we won't run any server that does not >> support ECC (and we use ECC memory). (And we run 100% Athlons >> currently.) We want to offer our customers that peace of mind. The >> cost of ECC in modern machines is negligible, and it is worth it >> compared to the cost of cleaning up afterwards. > > You're better off increasing the backup frequency as that is far more > likely to save someone's bacon. I don't know what your profession by trade is, but have to go with Mr Leigh on this one. There's a reason why Apple put ECC in the Xserve, and I highly doubt it was all about appeasing ignorant and misguided IT guys who you know better than. It can not only help downtime as servers are often exposed to heavy, sporadic loads and a bad module here and there can be a nightmare- ECC won't recover from something catastrophic (or just nasty like a double byte error) but it sure as heck makes getting back up on your feet faster. It's not something I'd laugh at someone for not having, but not something I'd scoff at either (same as SCSI). The real killer I've seen is a machine that seems to operate just fine, but is slowly starting to give back corrupted data but in a very small sporadic and non obvious way. If your car starts pouring out steam, you know right where to go to fix the situation (radiator, etc), but it can be maddening trying to find out just where a small leak in the cooling system is occurring... As an example, about a year and a half ago a friends client was installing updates on 4 linux boxes... tested the updates on a test machine, rolled it into production and had a nightmare of a time on one of the boxes. It'd always die about 3/4 of the way through the process, leaving the machine all messed up. My pal was tasked with it after the 3rd retry & freakout of the updates. Anyways, the updates after a wget or curl weren't even checksumming correctly on the bad box once they went over a certain size, even though everything seemed perfectly normal with the box for over a year. It was a huge hassle, as it was at a colo and they had to head on down and wait while the tech swapped sticks until everything was checksumming correctly and then viola, no problems. The box was passing casual stress and RAM tests with flying colors, and no problems were noticed during production (ie, no database corruption, no random crashes, no corrupt files) so they ended up looking at the disk controller and other things which was a waste. When they swapped out the bad module and took it to another machine and used a more 'stringent' RAM checker on it (I'm not up on how the diff softs do their thing... for example I've had to run apples 4-5 times on a piece of RAM before it would diagnose it as faulty, whereas other software would pick it up right away), sure enough one of the chips was having probs. Again it was a huge amount of time, as they had no idea how long that one small chip had been having problems or what might have been affected that wasn't obvious... checksumming on multiple backups, etc. ECC would have caught that, logged it, and made things a heck of a lot simpler, which I've seen happen as it's simply a matter of swapping out the stick with a problem. In their planned upgrade 3-4 months ago they did make sure to go with ECC boxen, and do to that and another experience I doubt they'd consider anything else. Your argument is like arguing against having S.M.A.R.T. built into hard drives, yeah it won't backup your data for you but it can be a help. Or thermal nodes on CPUs, etc. From lists at drunkenbatman.com Sun Feb 1 03:09:36 2004 From: lists at drunkenbatman.com (db) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:56 2005 Subject: Au Revoir, Claris Emailer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040201060936841215.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:02:12 -0800, Dan Crevier wrote: >> I've started to use Mail.app, but it doesn't seem to have the same type >> of features for dealing with large quantities of e-mail like Emailer. >> I'm sure I'll eventually get used to it. > > You might try Microsoft Entourage. It's what many of us from the Emailer > team have been working on for the last 6 years. It's not my cup of tea, but a lot of people moving from classic emailer/outlook express really seem to like powermail. If you ever work in OS9, powermail has the advantage of working in 8.6 - 10.3. From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Sun Feb 1 03:11:17 2004 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:56 2005 Subject: bad memory In-Reply-To: <2B3B804B-5499-11D8-A3E6-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <20040130060135.ITI1953.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> <20040130133206525477.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <45BC86B3-536C-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <13166AFF-5384-11D8-8063-003065C4548E@mac.com> <85010620-5385-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <2B3B804B-5499-11D8-A3E6-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: <20040201111117.GK13520@Dark-Age.local> On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 10:29:43AM +0100, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: : : On 1 Feb 2004, at 04:51, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: : >> : >>I'm not going to say ECC is totally pointless, but I don't think it's : >>really a factor in 99.99% of situations. : > : >Do you buy car insurance? Why? How about life insurance? Why? It : >is not really a factor in 99.99% of the situations. : : Jared's second rule: Analogies don't work. : : A) Car insurance is mandatory. : : B) You never see the benefits of life insurance. Analogies fail on pedantic people. Perhaps "health insurance" might present less errors to the logical mind. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From jwt at qth.ath.cx Sun Feb 1 04:00:57 2004 From: jwt at qth.ath.cx (Jim Tittsler) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:56 2005 Subject: Dvorak layout: tilde with Japanese keyboard? Message-ID: <20040201120057.GE3097@server.onjapan.net> If you switch to either of the Apple supplied Dvorak layouts on a Mac with a Japanese Apple Pro keyboard, none of the keys seem to be mapped to the swung-dash (tilde) / grave quote (backtick) key. What is the easiest way to add this mapping to the Dvorak layout? From pelorus at mac.com Sun Feb 1 07:01:30 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:56 2005 Subject: Apple class-action jitters? Message-ID: <843D6E10-54C7-11D8-9535-000A95DC1742@mac.com> http://q.queso.com/archives/001352 > "I?ve gotta say, there?s precious little that makes me more annoyed > than a company that miraculously decides to do right by its customers > just after enough of those customers express interest in a > class-action lawsuit against it." The difference being that a class action lawsuit would have benefited a few, yet the repair extension is open worldwide for a change. That's going to be a lot more expensive than just keeping a few US citizens happy. Apple doesn't bow to fear of class action suits. They wait, sometimes settle and sometimes lose. > (Note that I?ve turned off comments on this post. I wasn?t looking for > them in the first place, and then an anonymous troll came to visit, so > that?s that.) That's cause you're an arse. M -- The boy stood on the burning deck/ Whence all but he had fled/ Twit - Spike Milligan -- From xah at xahlee.org Sun Feb 1 11:05:51 2004 From: xah at xahlee.org (xah lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:56 2005 Subject: Dvorak layout: tilde with Japanese keyboard? In-Reply-To: <20040201120057.GE3097@server.onjapan.net> References: <20040201120057.GE3097@server.onjapan.net> Message-ID: hi Jim Tittsler, you can either try other Dvorak layouts on the net. http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/Personal_dir/dvorak.1.0.1.sit.hqx Or, you can create keymap yourself by using ResEdit. (os x had a new feature within past 6 months that you can drop the old keymap resource into some folder in os x and the system will recognize it. Let me know if you need detail. thanks.) Xah xah@xahlee.org http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html On Feb 1, 2004, at 4:00 AM, Jim Tittsler wrote: If you switch to either of the Apple supplied Dvorak layouts on a Mac with a Japanese Apple Pro keyboard, none of the keys seem to be mapped to the swung-dash (tilde) / grave quote (backtick) key. What is the easiest way to add this mapping to the Dvorak layout? From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Feb 1 11:26:41 2004 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:56 2005 Subject: bad memory In-Reply-To: References: <20040130060135.ITI1953.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.1 68.0.101]> <20040130133206525477.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <45BC86B3-536C-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <13166AFF-5384-11D8-8063-003065C4548E@mac.com> <85010620-5385-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <900AE209-54EC-11D8-AEA5-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Feb 1, 2004, at 1:02 AM, LuKreme wrote: > On 31 Jan 2004, at 20:51, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >> On Jan 31, 2004, at 2:03 PM, Michael Caplinger wrote: >> >>> I'm not going to say ECC is totally pointless, but I don't think >>> it's really a factor in 99.99% of situations. >> >> Do you buy car insurance? Why? How about life insurance? Why? It >> is not really a factor in 99.99% of the situations. > > The failure is catastrophic in that case, and insurance will help > cover the cost (or loss). ECC doesn't recover from catastrophic > failure nor does it help cover the loss. Uhh, sorry, wrong answer. Memory failure can be very catastrophic. A single bit error in a financial calculation, at the wrong end of the "word", can cause major catastrophe. That gets corrected with ECC. And there is ECC out there that can do more than 1 bit correction (generally not at the PC level though). And if ECC can't correct it, you get a crash, with known cause, that will prevent you from getting such bit errors in your calculations. Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Feb 1 11:28:11 2004 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: bad memory In-Reply-To: <2B3B804B-5499-11D8-A3E6-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <20040130060135.ITI1953.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.1 68.0.101]> <20040130133206525477.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <45BC86B3-536C-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <13166AFF-5384-11D8-8063-003065C4548E@mac.com> <85010620-5385-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <2B3B804B-5499-11D8-A3E6-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: On Feb 1, 2004, at 2:29 AM, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > On 1 Feb 2004, at 04:51, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >>> I'm not going to say ECC is totally pointless, but I don't think >>> it's really a factor in 99.99% of situations. >> >> Do you buy car insurance? Why? How about life insurance? Why? It >> is not really a factor in 99.99% of the situations. > > Jared's second rule: Analogies don't work. > > A) Car insurance is mandatory. No its not. It is mandatory in some jurisdictions. But if you don't like that analogy: How come you carry more than the minimum car insurance levels? (most people do) > > B) You never see the benefits of life insurance. Demsontrably not true. Some life insurance policies allow you to start collecting before you die if you have certain terminal conditions. Chad > > -- > Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net > "No SPORK today. SPORK tomorrow. There's always SPORK tomorrow." > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From mikecap at mac.com Sun Feb 1 11:45:42 2004 From: mikecap at mac.com (mikecap@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: bad memory In-Reply-To: References: <20040130060135.ITI1953.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.1 68.0.101]> <20040130133206525477.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <45BC86B3-536C-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <13166AFF-5384-11D8-8063-003065C4548E@mac.com> <85010620-5385-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <3821B32A-54EF-11D8-B655-000A95D96D0C@mac.com> > Don't you run the risk of memory erros screweing up your calculations > though? Yes, we do run the risk. However, my point was that in about 3 years of heavy use this never actually became a problem. Periodic checking of the answers given by our athlon cluster were close enough to the answers given by the POWER3 and POWER4 systems we run the really big jobs on. And before you jump on my 'close enough' remark, let me point out that we hardly ever get the exact same results when compare the same calculations between architectures. Mike From kremels at kreme.com Sun Feb 1 12:25:30 2004 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Gates and the MyDoom virus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 29 Jan 2004, at 14:37, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > On 1/29/04 3:04 PM, "LuKreme" wrote: >> >>> Do you really want anybody from anywhere on the network to be able to >>> send mail as you? >> >> Anyone on the network has been able to send mail as >> 'kreme@' >> since 1987. What's your point? > > You've never had anybody with your email address in their address book > get a > virus and send out lots of viruses with your address as the from? > Then you > get lots of messages from other people telling you that you have a > virus. > It's happened to tons of people, me included. There have also been > tons of > people to have some spammer use their from address and get slammed with > thousands of bounces. I guess if it's never happened to you then it > doesn't > matter to you, but I think that those who have been victimized would > disagree. I've had this happen. My solution was procmail and spamassassin and good filters. occasiaonlly I send "you are a moron" type of instructional messages to people who claim I have a virus, but it's even been a couple of years since I did that. -- Rent a flat above a shop, cut your hair and get a job, smoke some fags and play some pool, pretend you never went to school and still you'll never get it right cuz when you're lay'n in bed at night watching the roaches climb the wall if you called your dad he could stop it all. From kremels at kreme.com Sun Feb 1 12:27:59 2004 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Gates and the MyDoom virus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <207C0992-54F5-11D8-AE59-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 29 Jan 2004, at 14:37, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > On 1/29/04 3:04 PM, "LuKreme" wrote: >> >>> Do you really want anybody from anywhere on the network to be able to >>> send mail as you? >> >> Anyone on the network has been able to send mail as >> 'kreme@' >> since 1987. What's your point? > > You've never had anybody with your email address in their address book > get a > virus and send out lots of viruses with your address as the from? > Then you > get lots of messages from other people telling you that you have a > virus. > It's happened to tons of people, me included. There have also been > tons of > people to have some spammer use their from address and get slammed with > thousands of bounces. I guess if it's never happened to you then it > doesn't > matter to you, but I think that those who have been victimized would > disagree. I've had this happen. My solution was procmail and spamassassin and good filters. occasiaonlly I send "you are a moron" type of instructional messages to people who claim I have a virus, but it's even been a couple of years since I did that. -- Rent a flat above a shop, cut your hair and get a job, smoke some fags and play some pool, pretend you never went to school and still you'll never get it right cuz when you're lay'n in bed at night watching the roaches climb the wall if you called your dad he could stop it all. From steve at paper-ape.com Sun Feb 1 13:23:07 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Sharing iTunes over the Internet In-Reply-To: <8BE17E16-5495-11D8-BEC5-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <149B3B94-5340-11D8-967B-000393D00E20@nilzero.com> <6474E983-5433-11D8-BEC5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <8BE17E16-5495-11D8-BEC5-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: at 2004-02-01, 2:03 AM -0700, they whom i call LuKreme wrote: >I must be doing something wrong, I couldn't get it to work. It >tries to load the library (wrong name though), then gives up after >about 5 minutes. i haven't set it up myself (no need here), but MacOSXHInts is back up, so perhaps one of the nested comments addresses this ' -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Sun Feb 1 13:37:27 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Au Revoir, Claris Emailer In-Reply-To: References: <850E291E-546C-11D8-BB2A-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> Message-ID: at 2004-02-01, 1:21 AM -0700, they whom i call LuKreme wrote: >On 31 Jan 2004, at 21:10, Bill Coleman wrote: >>I've started to use Mail.app, but it doesn't seem to have the same >>type of features for dealing with large quantities of e-mail like >>Emailer. I'm sure I'll eventually get used to it. i've been using Mail side by side with Eudora for over a year now, still like Eudora better >I've found that combining procmail on the IMAP server with Mail.app >gives me just about the ideal mail environment. you've described this setup before, and i'm regularly tempted by it, but while i have hope that Mail may grow past some issues i have on its side, isn't there still a fundamental limitation on searching IMAP mailboxes? has anyone come across anything like Zoe, but with a native interface? (the web interface sounds nice for remote users, but i'm not remote) -- steve harley From mark at imap-partners.net Sun Feb 1 14:13:13 2004 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Au Revoir, Claris Emailer In-Reply-To: References: <850E291E-546C-11D8-BB2A-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> Message-ID: On 1 Feb 2004, at 22:37, steve harley wrote: > isn't there still a fundamental limitation on searching IMAP mailboxes? What are you getting at here Steve ? I don't understand what you mean by "fundamental limitation". You can search the server (local or remote) and/or search a cache of the servers contents. In principal, searching IMAP mailboxes is no more limited than for POP. The efficiency and power of the search is (allowing for adequate bandwidth in the case of remote mailboxes) purely an issue of how it is implemented in the client. Right ? mark. From aa4lr at mac.com Sun Feb 1 17:45:22 2004 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Andy Hertzfeld's new site In-Reply-To: References: <20040131004432.ETYD1899.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: <76F9758E-5521-11D8-8FAB-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> On Jan 30, 2004, at 10:03 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 7:44 PM -0500 1/30/04, Bill Coleman wrote: >> I knew about the 6809 hardware originally. The 6809 was a fabulous >> 8-bit >> chip, but a 256x256 graphics plane would have taken up 8 kB, which was >> 1/8 of the total memory space. There just wasn't enough processing >> power >> to do much cool graphics with the '09. > > The 6809 should have been what was in the Apple ///. Two problems: 1) The 6809 wasn't binary compatible with the 6502. 2) I don't think the 6809 was available in sufficient quantities, nor had sufficient power for the Apple ///. That's likely why they went with the bit-slice design. > Would have made that machine much more for its time. Very likely would have been a less expensive machine, and perhaps a longer life. Still the Apple /// was a dead-end. The software evolution would go in other directions, and the /// would be forgotten. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From aa4lr at mac.com Sun Feb 1 17:55:43 2004 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Apple HP and PDA OS In-Reply-To: <6CB81968-5356-11D8-8183-000A95DC1742@mac.com> References: <724C85BC-5347-11D8-A469-0003930ECB56@mac.com> <4F47816D-5355-11D8-8063-003065C4548E@mac.com> <6CB81968-5356-11D8-8183-000A95DC1742@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jan 30, 2004, at 1:59 PM, Matt wrote: > >> Obviously producing a good PDA is really hard. Is there even market >> for a third from Apple? Lets not forget that shortly after Steve's >> return, Apple offered to buy Palm from 3com. Which would have >> probably saved Palm's ass, or killed it because Apple doesn't/didn't >> have the resources to save the darn thing. > > Apple could have had the market by the short and curlies but they > dropped out of it. Evidently the market wasn't ready even though the > hardware had just about matured. There are still local schools using > eMates. The problem was multifacited. Just as the Newton had gotten to the point where the hardware was finally capable of doing something useful, and the platform had evolved into useful form factors, Apple suddenly had a huge cash-flow problem. After the introduction of Windows 95, Mac sales took a real dive, and Apple had missed out on several years of double-digit PC sales growth. At the same time, Apple had switched the Mac to a new processor, and was not taking full advantage of it. The MacOS had been in need of an update to new technology for some time. There was a lot of stuff in Apple's labs, but it wasn't getting out the door. As Steve Jobs himself put it, in that 1996 "fireside chat", supporting an operating system is very difficult. A single company can barely do it. Supporting two is nearly unheard of. Supporting three operating systems is just inconceivable. Axing the Newton was a move for survival. And likely the right one. Of course, at this point I'd like to see some of that Newton technology emerge as a Mac-related product. Jaguar gave us Inkwell, but you don't really hear much more about that, now do we? Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From aa4lr at mac.com Sun Feb 1 18:03:44 2004 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: bad memory In-Reply-To: <55ADEECC-53E6-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> References: <20040130060135.ITI1953.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.1 68.0.101]> <20040130133206525477.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <45BC86B3-536C-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <13166AFF-5384-11D8-8063-003065C4548E@mac.com> <85010620-5385-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <8B3B8631-53CE-11D8-9EA9-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <55ADEECC-53E6-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <07BDB556-5524-11D8-8FAB-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> On Jan 31, 2004, at 7:09 AM, Fabien Roy wrote: > If you do not believe in safety, that's your problem. I want to be > able to have the choice. > As an example, I am a glider pilot and I chose to fly my glider with a > reserve parachute and I do not want to have to use it! But in any case > I WANT to be able to count on it :-) As a powered airplane pilot, I don't see that flying a glider without a parachute is inherently unsafe. > I know that lack of ECC is not life threatening but you have to know > that the FAA does not require (unless you are doing aerobatics) to fly > a glider with a security parachute and I know a lot of pilot who chose > to not to fly with one. It's all about managing risk. Most pilots decided that the risk of actually needing a parachute is so vanishingly small as to not require it. Same could be said of ECC. If you're running Microsoft software, the risk of crashing is far more likely from bad software than bad memory. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From aa4lr at mac.com Sun Feb 1 18:23:28 2004 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Fast Company In-Reply-To: <0EA8D448-3663-11D8-AEE5-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> References: <61B73BEC-363E-11D8-8BFA-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <6CC1A984-3650-11D8-AAC8-000A95DC1742@mac.com> <0EA8D448-3663-11D8-AEE5-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: On Dec 24, 2003, at 5:46 PM, Stefano Mori wrote: > We're sooo obviously not converting anyone here. It's a place to be > enthusiastic about certain stuff that I know the average windows user > has no appreciation of. And there is nothing wrong in their not being > interested. That's not it. I had an epiphany the other day. Friend of mine from church was talking about this older PC he had. He had a question about its configuration and asked if I could come over and look at it. I said I would but I did put in the disclaimer that I know more about Macs than Windows machines. He failed to understand the distinction. "What's Windows?" All my friend knew is that he had a computer, the role of the operating system was completely lost on him. It just never occurred to him that there might be a difference in computers, something more like the different brands of cars. > And when someone shows interest in the sorts of stuff that Apple is > so good at, then I will bring to their attention more Apple products > that they may also like. My love of Apple stuff is subjective. And > fortunately there aren't any apps for which I need a PC with Windows > or Linux. And I don't feel that being an Apple-disciple here means I > can't present a different persona elsewhere. Good idea. You alienate too many people by being rabidly pro-Apple.... > Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From fabienlroy at mac.com Sun Feb 1 19:04:05 2004 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: bad memory In-Reply-To: <07BDB556-5524-11D8-8FAB-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> References: <20040130060135.ITI1953.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.1 68.0.101]> <20040130133206525477.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <45BC86B3-536C-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <13166AFF-5384-11D8-8063-003065C4548E@mac.com> <85010620-5385-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <8B3B8631-53CE-11D8-9EA9-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <55ADEECC-53E6-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <07BDB556-5524-11D8-8FAB-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> Message-ID: <75E42DB3-552C-11D8-B0EE-000393658196@mac.com> You could also decide to not to do your preflight like some well known politician who was able to takeoff with the safety pin on the yoke thus killing himself and the passengers. It's a matter of choice. If I could on a most sophisticated 64 bit desktop computer to have ECC I would. I want choice... Fabien. BTW I would recommend any powered pilot to do some glider training. Did save the ass of a 767 (late 70s) and an AirBus recently. On Feb 1, 2004, at 6:03 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: > > On Jan 31, 2004, at 7:09 AM, Fabien Roy wrote: > >> If you do not believe in safety, that's your problem. I want to be >> able to have the choice. >> As an example, I am a glider pilot and I chose to fly my glider with >> a reserve parachute and I do not want to have to use it! But in any >> case I WANT to be able to count on it :-) > > As a powered airplane pilot, I don't see that flying a glider without > a parachute is inherently unsafe. > >> I know that lack of ECC is not life threatening but you have to know >> that the FAA does not require (unless you are doing aerobatics) to >> fly a glider with a security parachute and I know a lot of pilot who >> chose to not to fly with one. > > It's all about managing risk. Most pilots decided that the risk of > actually needing a parachute is so vanishingly small as to not require > it. > > Same could be said of ECC. If you're running Microsoft software, the > risk of crashing is far more likely from bad software than bad memory. > > > > > Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com > Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" > -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales > From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Feb 1 20:50:34 2004 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: bad memory In-Reply-To: <75E42DB3-552C-11D8-B0EE-000393658196@mac.com> References: <20040130060135.ITI1953.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.1 68.0.101]> <20040130133206525477.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <45BC86B3-536C-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <13166AFF-5384-11D8-8063-003065C4548E@mac.com> <85010620-5385-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <8B3B8631-53CE-11D8-9EA9-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <55ADEECC-53E6-11D8-8032-000393658196@mac.com> <07BDB556-5524-11D8-8FAB-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> <75E42DB3-552C-11D8-B0EE-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <562D8782-553B-11D8-AEA5-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Feb 1, 2004, at 8:04 PM, Fabien Roy wrote: > BTW I would recommend any powered pilot to do some glider training. > Did save the ass of a 767 (late 70s) and an AirBus recently. That 767 up in Canada that ran out of gas mid flight and glided down to the old WW2 RCAF base was a cool story and a great credit to the pilots! I only fly RC but the slope gliders (and other gliders) are a lot more fun in my book than the powered planes... Anyone play with X-Plane on OS X? Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Feb 1 20:54:39 2004 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Apple HP and PDA OS In-Reply-To: References: <724C85BC-5347-11D8-A469-0003930ECB56@mac.com> <4F47816D-5355-11D8-8063-003065C4548E@mac.com> <6CB81968-5356-11D8-8183-000A95DC1742@mac.com> Message-ID: On Feb 1, 2004, at 6:55 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: > As Steve Jobs himself put it, in that 1996 "fireside chat", supporting > an operating system is very difficult. A single company can barely do > it. Supporting two is nearly unheard of. Supporting three operating > systems is just inconceivable. Axing the Newton was a move for > survival. And likely the right one. I know you have a cool time machine and all, but it was 1997... NeXt was bought in late 96 and Jobs was not involved until the very end of 1996. I was at the 97 WWDC for the fireside chat... best Chad From aa4lr at mac.com Sun Feb 1 21:00:29 2004 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Longhorn - OS X doomed?? In-Reply-To: <0AC96A3F-270B-11D8-BB5B-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <0AC96A3F-270B-11D8-BB5B-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Dec 5, 2003, at 5:08 AM, Matt wrote: > > I don't think for a second that all of this Longhorn stuff is just > being ignored at AAPL. I'm reminded of the changes and compromises > that took place from the first releases of Rhapsody and the first > release of Mac OS X. For example, the minimum hardware spec, the > software support, the mingling of environments, the eventual and > continual over-promise and under-delivery. I think that the same will > hold true for Longhorn. I'd agree. A lot of this has to do with the fact that Longhorn will slip a bit before it ships. > I also don't think that Apple were unduly or wrongly confident back in > 1992 when their competition was Windows 3.1. A lot can happen in three > years. How soon we forget. I don't think that Apple was that supremely confident. While Apple was competing quite well against Intel iron back in the early 90s, they had great difficulty gathering traction with developers against the emerging Windows market. Especially after Windows 3.1 (you know, when Windows finally kinda worked...). Apple teamed with Symantec to create Bedrock, which was supposed to be an applications framework that worked equally well on Windows as the Macintosh. In the end, it was a fool's errand. Even though a lot of this code eventually migrated into OpenDoc (another fool's errand), the goal of a multi-platform framework never really emerged. Certainly with Apple's minority position today, they aren't taking anything for granted, especially since Jobs is at the helm. > It's one thing to be cautious but do you have any evidence to suggest > that it's too late and everyone should just shut up shop before > Longhorn lands? No, of course not. Things will become clearer as time > goes on and we see what Longhorn is shaping up to be. All of the > improvements seem to be under the hood and there are some things that > MS can do there that will be truly revolutionary. There's a lot about Longhorn that resembles MacOS X, at least in its basic structure. The setup of the graphics environment, the separate UI elements, window management, etc. Of course, Microsoft has no taste.... As Microsoft has defined the battleground, though, Longhorn targets its benefits at developers. Winning over the developers is the first step. From there, the users must follow. But its not a forgone conclusion that Microsoft will be successful in converting users. Microsoft is having enough trouble upgrading people past 98 SE and Windows 2000. > Whether they deliver on the promise is separate even to whether > application vendors will cater for their Longhorn users. For example, > will Google capitulate with a Longhorn-esque tool? I believe so. Will > they kill their browser version? No. What about Amazon? Same again. > I'm confident that these orgnisations will cater for the new big thing > - heck, in many cases MS will PAY for the development of the tool. > Will they drop development of their standard web-based tools, no. And > why not? It is quite possible that Microsoft might drop their standard tools. Completely. Consider the situation in the mid-90s. Nearly two years before the introduction of Windows 95, Microsoft stopped all development on Visual C++ for 16-bit software, even though there were many developers who were trying to do exactly that. > XP was to be the way forward yet, still 2 years after it's release > (Oct 25th 2001), the dominant operating system on the internet is > Windows 98. Do we have reason to believe that the landscape will > change significantly between now and 2006? There are two counter-forces. One is Microsofts desparate push to move everyone to XP and beyond. The other is the appearance of viable alternatives (basically Linux). > I don't know. Maybe they'll give Longhorn away for free? > We should ask Bill. (C. not G.) Not a chance. They'll cut prices, for sure. But not for free, unless they feel it is the only want to create a 100% monopoly. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From aa4lr at mac.com Sun Feb 1 21:28:05 2004 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Au Revoir, Claris Emailer In-Reply-To: References: <850E291E-546C-11D8-BB2A-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> Message-ID: <942D46CA-5540-11D8-AD49-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> On Feb 1, 2004, at 12:14 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 11:10 PM -0500 1/31/04, Bill Coleman wrote: >> I've started to use Mail.app, but it doesn't seem to have the same >> type of features for dealing with large quantities of e-mail like >> Emailer. I'm sure I'll eventually get used to it. > > Why not Eudora? > > I've been using it since... at least 94.... because I have a message > in my archive in box from back then. Oog. Eudora. Tried that before Emailer. (feeling wooozy....) Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From steve at paper-ape.com Sun Feb 1 21:25:49 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Au Revoir, Claris Emailer In-Reply-To: References: <850E291E-546C-11D8-BB2A-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> Message-ID: at 2004-02-01, 11:13 PM +0100, they whom i call mark wrote: >On 1 Feb 2004, at 22:37, steve harley wrote: > >>isn't there still a fundamental limitation on searching IMAP mailboxes? > >What are you getting at here Steve ? I don't understand what you >mean by "fundamental limitation". You can search the server (local >or remote) and/or search a cache of the servers contents. In >principal, searching IMAP mailboxes is no more limited than for POP. >The efficiency and power of the search is (allowing for adequate >bandwidth in the case of remote mailboxes) purely an issue of how it >is implemented in the client. Right ? no -- i recall the IMAP specs spell out what searches a server can do, so a local server would be faster, but still unable to do many of the searches i do routinely with Eudora.. it's been a while since i looked at this though, so if you know better, i'm all ears -- steve harley From listuser at magicmiles.com Sun Feb 1 21:43:19 2004 From: listuser at magicmiles.com (m i l e s) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: WiFi + OS X + Network Design. In-Reply-To: <942D46CA-5540-11D8-AD49-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> References: <850E291E-546C-11D8-BB2A-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> <942D46CA-5540-11D8-AD49-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi, Im not sure this is the right place to ask this question...but I'll throw it out here. I have a client in my town that I have to design a somewhat secure WiFi network for. When I say "somewhat", I'll splain what that means: My client has a retail store that he wants to offer WiFi in, at the same time, he also has a small Wired network of computers that he'd like to have access to the internet. Both of these networks need to access the internet, but the WiFi one I dont want it to see the wired network, but the wired network can see and interact with the WiFi network. Am I dreamin or what ? My thinking is that a single router/firewall isn't going to do me much good here, as I need to set up two seperate networks, or am I wrong ? A switch is right out of the picture, too pricey for my needs. My WiFi network I want to limit to 15 users and limit their entire bandwidth usage to half our T-1. My WiFi users do not need to authenticate to get access to the net. They should be handed an IP address (DHCP) and be good to go. The Wired users have static IPs. The Wired network should NOT be "visable" from the internet, but I as the admin should be able to access any point inside that network once validated. Im swimming in terms and protocols at this point and really just a few pointers. I know an Airport Base Station, while it can handle the load, its got no firewall protection and no routing software. Netgear and LinkSys both have the tools that I need for setting up both the wired and wifi networks. Ive installed both types of routers before so Im no stranger to them. So where does OS X fit into this ? The wired network is all OS X machines, a mix of iMacs and Powerbooks, all running 10.3 thanks to me. Took me a week to get them all up to speed, OY! The WiFi is all laptops and will be a range of Windoze users and mac users. I know all of the above is vaguish...but its in my head that way....any pointers, any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, -- M i l e s President & Toolbox Architect MagicMiles Software (413) 374 - 5161 PO Box 414, Northampton, MA 01060 http://www.servicetoolbox.com/ http://www.workshoptoolbox.com/ http://www.healingartstoolbox.com/ http://www.artshoptoolbox.com/ We create content management systems for the rest of us, starting at $25.00 a month, includes domain registration, web hosting, email and webmail. Great for Yoga Teachers, Massage Therapists, Lawyers, Doctors, and any professional! From mmalc_lists at mac.com Sun Feb 1 22:08:01 2004 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Fast Company In-Reply-To: References: <61B73BEC-363E-11D8-8BFA-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <6CC1A984-3650-11D8-AAC8-000A95DC1742@mac.com> <0EA8D448-3663-11D8-AEE5-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <27BC295E-5546-11D8-AEE5-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Feb 1, 2004, at 6:23 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: > That's not it. I had an epiphany the other day. Hmm, so now you're claiming you're posting from the past? :-) (Around January 8th I'd guess.) mmalc From mark at imap-partners.net Sun Feb 1 23:43:20 2004 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Au Revoir, Claris Emailer In-Reply-To: References: <850E291E-546C-11D8-BB2A-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> Message-ID: <78C532FD-5553-11D8-ABE9-000A958A3014@imap-partners.net> On 2 Feb 2004, at 6:25, steve harley wrote: > no -- i recall the IMAP specs spell out what searches a > server can do, so a local server would be faster, but still > unable to do many of the searches i do routinely with > Eudora.. it's been a while since i looked at this though, so > if you know better, i'm all ears ah, OK, you are talking about the search capabilities of the server itself, or so to speak, the limitations of "passing" a "search" command from a client to the server. I'm no expert, but I guess you are right, there will be limitations here. My point, perhaps obvious and/or redundant is that you can still "do" the search provided you are willing to either a) "fetch" the contents of all of the mailboxes belonging to the search terms and/or b) use a cached version of the mailbox contents. mark. From pelorus at mac.com Mon Feb 2 00:44:16 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Apple HP and PDA OS In-Reply-To: References: <724C85BC-5347-11D8-A469-0003930ECB56@mac.com> <4F47816D-5355-11D8-8063-003065C4548E@mac.com> <6CB81968-5356-11D8-8183-000A95DC1742@mac.com> Message-ID: On 2 Feb 2004, at 01:55, Bill Coleman wrote: > As Steve Jobs himself put it, in that 1996 "fireside chat", supporting > an operating system is very difficult. A single company can barely do > it. Supporting two is nearly unheard of. Supporting three operating > systems is just inconceivable. Axing the Newton was a move for > survival. And likely the right one. Newton Inc was spun out and then grabbed back. Apple only needed to support the Mac. USPCA Gala Night: http://www.nimug.org/ A night of fine dining, dancing and entertainment You can email uspca@nimug.org for more information. For ticket sales please ring their National Helpline on 02890 814242. From pelorus at mac.com Mon Feb 2 01:00:31 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: WiFi + OS X + Network Design. In-Reply-To: References: <850E291E-546C-11D8-BB2A-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> <942D46CA-5540-11D8-AD49-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> Message-ID: <40DD4B4C-555E-11D8-8957-000A95DC1742@mac.com> On 2 Feb 2004, at 05:43, m i l e s wrote: > Both of these networks need to access the internet, but the > WiFi one I dont want it to see the wired network, but the wired > network can > see and interact with the WiFi network. Am I dreamin or what ? Well, it's not all roses. You can mimic this somewhat by playing with routes but it's not perfect. If something on the wired network is going to interact with the kit on the wireless network then there has to be a logical connection. > My thinking is that a single router/firewall isn't going to do me much > good here, > as I need to set up two seperate networks, or am I wrong ? Well, it can work. > A switch is right out of the picture, too pricey for my needs. Sure? I'm guessing you mean a routing switch which are indeed expensive. Or a managed switch, which are again expensive. > My WiFi network I want to limit to 15 users and limit their entire > bandwidth usage to half our T-1. This is sorta tough but I'm wagering that contention on the wireless network will keep their bandwidth down - real world max transfer speed of 802.11b is just over half a megabyte a second and as clients are added, that will decrease. Wired clients will always get priority. Other than that you'll need to use traffic shaping which will work on a NIX machine if you substitute it as a gateway router but is a bit of hassle really. Too much bother in my opinion. > My WiFi users do not need to authenticate to get access to the net. > They should be handed an IP > address (DHCP) and be good to go. The Wired users have static IPs. > The Wired network should NOT be "visable" from the internet, but I as > the > admin should be able to access any point inside that network once > validated. None of the networks will be visible from the Internet as you'll be using NAT. > Im swimming in terms and protocols at this point and really just a few > pointers. I know an Airport Base Station, while it can handle the > load, its > got no firewall protection and no routing software. Netgear and > LinkSys > both have the tools that I need for setting up both the wired and wifi > networks. > Ive installed both types of routers before so Im no stranger to them. Well, it seems like you have a good handle on what you need. A more intelligent routing switch will handle everything you ask for but they are prohibitively expensive. With a normal wired router on the T1 with two ethernet ports and a wireless base station, you should be good to go. What type of router do you have handling the T1? It should have some good route control and access control software. > So where does OS X fit into this ? The wired network is all OS X > machines, > a mix of iMacs and Powerbooks, all running 10.3 thanks to me. Took me > a week > to get them all up to speed, OY! The WiFi is all laptops and will be > a range > of Windoze users and mac users. Why would OSX fit into this? It's just a client. If you wanted to be really l33t you could change the wired network to be all VPN'ed. That would mean that even if wireless clients sneaked on, the traffic would still be all encrypted, which I'm guessing is desirable? M From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Mon Feb 2 01:07:37 2004 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Apple HP and PDA OS In-Reply-To: References: <724C85BC-5347-11D8-A469-0003930ECB56@mac.com> <4F47816D-5355-11D8-8063-003065C4548E@mac.com> <6CB81968-5356-11D8-8183-000A95DC1742@mac.com> Message-ID: <3F399139-555F-11D8-A442-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> > Newton Inc was spun out and then grabbed back. Apple only needed to > support the Mac. Exactly. Newton was also breaking even at the time and things looked pretty good at the time. Still, this doesn't matter anymore. I just want my next iPod to have a built-in phone and I will be all set (too bad the limitations on battery life doesn't make this possible at this time... or not?). j. From madamov at kc.gov.yu Mon Feb 2 01:33:47 2004 From: madamov at kc.gov.yu (Milan Adamov) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: WiFi + OS X + Network Design. In-Reply-To: References: <850E291E-546C-11D8-BB2A-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> <942D46CA-5540-11D8-AD49-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> Message-ID: At 12:43 AM -0500 2/2/04, m i l e s wrote: >Hi, > >Im not sure this is the right place to ask this question...but >I'll throw it out here. > >I have a client in my town that I have to design a somewhat secure >WiFi network for. When I say "somewhat", I'll splain what that means: >My client has a retail store that he wants to offer WiFi in, at the same time, >he also has a small Wired network of computers that he'd like to have access >to the internet. Both of these networks need to access the internet, but the >WiFi one I dont want it to see the wired network, but the wired network can >see and interact with the WiFi network. Am I dreamin or what ? > >My thinking is that a single router/firewall isn't going to do me >much good here, >as I need to set up two seperate networks, or am I wrong ? A switch >is right out >of the picture, too pricey for my needs. My WiFi network I want to >limit to 15 users >and limit their entire bandwidth usage to half our T-1. My WiFi users do not >need to authenticate to get access to the net. They should be handed an IP >address (DHCP) and be good to go. The Wired users have static IPs. >The Wired network should NOT be "visable" from the internet, but I as the >admin should be able to access any point inside that network once validated. > >Im swimming in terms and protocols at this point and really just a few >pointers. I know an Airport Base Station, while it can handle the load, its >got no firewall protection and no routing software. Netgear and LinkSys >both have the tools that I need for setting up both the wired and >wifi networks. >Ive installed both types of routers before so Im no stranger to them. > I made a similar setup I did for my client here. They have two Airport Extreme Base stations as bridge between two wired networks in the same subnet so they can see various servers. There is third Airport Base station on a separate subnet providing guests, usually foreign diplomats and journalists with Internet access by means of DHCP and NAT. Both subnets connects to the Mac OS X machine with three NICs, each subnet goes into its own NIC, while the third one is directly connected to a HDSL modem connecting both subnets to a ISP. I don't know if this is what are you looking for, I hope it is good starting point at least. Milan From kremels at kreme.com Mon Feb 2 01:44:36 2004 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Longhorn - OS X doomed?? In-Reply-To: References: <0AC96A3F-270B-11D8-BB5B-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <69B36B42-5564-11D8-B6E5-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 01 Feb 2004, at 22:00, Bill Coleman wrote: >> I don't know. Maybe they'll give Longhorn away for free? >> We should ask Bill. (C. not G.) > > Not a chance. They'll cut prices, for sure. But not for free, unless > they feel it is the only want to create a 100% monopoly. I think a LOT depends on how large the updcoming EU smackdown is. If the fine is a few hundred million dollars and ineffective restrictions that's one thing, but if the fine is many hundreds of millions and effective punitive punishment of MSFT for their crimes... well, then everyone wins (in the long run, even MSFT possibly). -- If fashion is your trade then when you're naked I guess you must be unemployed. From scott at omnigroup.com Mon Feb 2 04:45:47 2004 From: scott at omnigroup.com (Scott Maier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1 Message-ID: I just wanted to send a quick note to let everyone know that we have released OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1: Be sure to have a look at the release notes, too! Enjoy! Scott Maier Program Manager, OmniWeb The Omni Group From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Mon Feb 2 06:46:56 2004 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Fast Company In-Reply-To: <27BC295E-5546-11D8-AEE5-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <61B73BEC-363E-11D8-8BFA-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <6CC1A984-3650-11D8-AAC8-000A95DC1742@mac.com> <0EA8D448-3663-11D8-AEE5-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> <27BC295E-5546-11D8-AEE5-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Feb 2, 2004, at 7:08 AM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > > On Feb 1, 2004, at 6:23 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: > >> That's not it. I had an epiphany the other day. > > Hmm, so now you're claiming you're posting from the past? :-) > (Around January 8th I'd guess.) > > mmalc > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Feb 2 09:10:15 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Au Revoir, Claris Emailer In-Reply-To: <78C532FD-5553-11D8-ABE9-000A958A3014@imap-partners.net> References: <850E291E-546C-11D8-BB2A-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> <78C532FD-5553-11D8-ABE9-000A958A3014@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: at 2004-02-02, 8:43 AM +0100, they whom i call mark wrote: >ah, OK, you are talking about the search capabilities of the server >itself, or so to speak, the limitations of "passing" a "search" >command from a client to the server. I'm no expert, but I guess you >are right, there will be limitations here. this is what has amazed me about the IMAP hoopla.. for searching, IMAP is crippled.. my mail archive is often the best document of solutions i've come up with, commitments i've made, etc., so a good search capability is crucial >My point, perhaps obvious and/or redundant is that you can still >"do" the search provided you are willing to either a) "fetch" the >contents of all of the mailboxes belonging to the search terms >and/or b) use a cached version of the mailbox contents. that's presuming i have a client that can do a better search of a local cache than of an IMAP server.. i do have that in Eudora, but not in Mail.. however, if i have a local cache anyway, there's little point in having a local IMAP server (since i don't need the remote access or multi-user capabilities) -- steve harley From lomion at mac.com Mon Feb 2 11:00:39 2004 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17BEE2AE-55B2-11D8-85BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Feb 2, 2004, at 7:45 AM, Scott Maier wrote: > > I just wanted to send a quick note to let everyone know that we have > released OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1: > > > > Be sure to have a look at the release notes, too! > > > Downloaded and playing right now. Thanks a lot! --Larry From ian at SKYLIST.net Mon Feb 2 11:17:29 2004 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1 In-Reply-To: <17BEE2AE-55B2-11D8-85BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <17BEE2AE-55B2-11D8-85BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: <715E686E-55B4-11D8-BD84-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> On Feb 2, 2004, at 1:00 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > > On Feb 2, 2004, at 7:45 AM, Scott Maier wrote: > >> >> I just wanted to send a quick note to let everyone know that we have >> released OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1: >> >> >> >> Be sure to have a look at the release notes, too! >> >> > > Downloaded and playing right now. Thanks a lot! I've been using it all morning - definitely kinda crashy right now, but the feature set is great. Will this be a paid upgrade or will current Omniweb licensees get it for free? Ian From zbir at urbanape.com Mon Feb 2 11:27:10 2004 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1 In-Reply-To: <715E686E-55B4-11D8-BD84-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> References: <17BEE2AE-55B2-11D8-85BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> <715E686E-55B4-11D8-BD84-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: On Feb 2, 2004, at 2:17 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > On Feb 2, 2004, at 1:00 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: >> >> On Feb 2, 2004, at 7:45 AM, Scott Maier wrote: >> >>> I just wanted to send a quick note to let everyone know that we have >>> released OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1: >>> >>> >>> >>> Be sure to have a look at the release notes, too! >>> >>> >> >> Downloaded and playing right now. Thanks a lot! > > I've been using it all morning - definitely kinda crashy right now, > but the feature set is great. Will this be a paid upgrade or will > current Omniweb licensees get it for free? I believe it's $9.95 for current licensees. Zac, who's ready to pay. From kelly at redleopard.com Mon Feb 2 11:43:57 2004 From: kelly at redleopard.com (Kelly Brant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1 In-Reply-To: References: <17BEE2AE-55B2-11D8-85BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> <715E686E-55B4-11D8-BD84-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: <23D464D6-55B8-11D8-A976-000393989B8E@redleopard.com> On Feb 2, 2004, at 11:27 AM, Zachery Bir wrote: > On Feb 2, 2004, at 2:17 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > >> On Feb 2, 2004, at 1:00 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: >>> >>> On Feb 2, 2004, at 7:45 AM, Scott Maier wrote: >>> >>>> I just wanted to send a quick note to let everyone know that we >>>> have released OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Be sure to have a look at the release notes, too! >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Downloaded and playing right now. Thanks a lot! >> >> I've been using it all morning - definitely kinda crashy right now, >> but the feature set is great. Will this be a paid upgrade or will >> current Omniweb licensees get it for free? > > I believe it's $9.95 for current licensees. > > Zac, who's ready to pay. Yup. $9.95 upgrade is what they said at MacWorld. After using the beta, I feel that's fair. There is a LOT of potential. The beta isn't ready to replace OW 4.5 as yet (crashes often). When it is ready, I won't hesitate to send OmniGroup my ten bucks. Not for a second. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Mon Feb 2 11:51:34 2004 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1 In-Reply-To: References: <17BEE2AE-55B2-11D8-85BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> <715E686E-55B4-11D8-BD84-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: <34472810-55B9-11D8-BAA2-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> >> I've been using it all morning - definitely kinda crashy right now, >> but the feature set is great. Will this be a paid upgrade or will >> current Omniweb licensees get it for free? > > I believe it's $9.95 for current licensees. So low that I feel I will be stealing the Omni dude. Heck, even more than I do know leeching their bandwidth. EVERYONE in this list should get their license people. It's payback time and daddy-o Ken would appreciate the gesture. :-) OW5 does rule and it's only getting better from here. > Zac, who's ready to pay. You bet. j. From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Feb 2 12:54:59 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 2004-02-02, 4:45 AM -0800, they whom i call Scott Maier wrote: >I just wanted to send a quick note to let everyone know that we have >released OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1: this is great -- the management features i liked in OW 4, plus a better tabbing interface than Safari's >Be sure to have a look at the release notes, too! and those are quite the release notes -- RSS feeds, cookie jar, site prefs, page marking, a cross-crash memory of what pages were open (which i've already tested across an OW crash ...) i'm a little peeved that real-time cookie management is harder, but overall this is a great release.. can't wait for OmniMail ;?> -- steve harley From joar at joar.com Mon Feb 2 13:44:09 2004 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Safari 1.2 and Java 1.4.2 is available via SU Message-ID: From jared at 23x.net Mon Feb 2 14:34:18 2004 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2 Feb 2004, at 21:54, steve harley wrote: > and those are quite the release notes -- RSS feeds, cookie > jar, site prefs, page marking, a cross-crash memory of what > pages were open (which i've already tested across an OW > crash ...) How much and when? Want. It even reads my RSS feed[1] exactly as required. [1] http://www.23x.net/rss.php -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "Watashi-wa shin no SUPORUKU desu" From kremels at kreme.com Mon Feb 2 14:45:30 2004 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <80D1E37D-55D1-11D8-B6E5-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 02 Feb 2004, at 13:54, steve harley wrote: > at 2004-02-02, 4:45 AM -0800, they whom i call Scott Maier wrote: >> Be sure to have a look at the release notes, too! > > and those are quite the release notes -- RSS feeds, cookie > jar, site prefs, page marking, a cross-crash memory of what > pages were open (which i've already tested across an OW > crash ...) Odd, I got a 404 trying to load the release notes. > can't wait for OmniMail ;?> There's an idea. -- Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see From soft at bdanube.com Mon Feb 2 15:58:15 2004 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Safari 1.2 and Java 1.4.2 is available via SU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Darn! The new Safari breaks Pith Helmet (again). :-( Michael -- Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in a final sense a theft from those who are hungry and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. - President Dwight D. Eisenhower From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Mon Feb 2 16:17:08 2004 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: How can I get Mail to forgive me? Message-ID: <1283893.1075767428943.JavaMail.jimbokun_lists@mac.com> I have .mac account specifically for lists (this one), a personal account, and my wife's account. We have been happily reading these accounts with Mail.app for a goodly while now, until recently. Now both my lists account and my wife's account are greyed out, and if I select one of them and click Get Mail, Mail just makes an obscene gesture at me (beeps). Doesn't prompt for a password, nada. My personal account still works without a hitch, but not these two accounts. I can read both these accounts through webmail fine (where I am composing this). I've checked the account settings in preferences a dozen times, and can't find anything wrong. What else should I try to get Mail to forgive me and let me fetch my mail again. Thanks, -jimbo From bahi at macnet.co.uk Mon Feb 2 16:17:13 2004 From: bahi at macnet.co.uk (Bahi) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Safari 1.2 fixes cookie bug Message-ID: In v1.2, 3rd-party cookies (cookies from domains other than those you navigate to) are rejected if that's the behaviour you've specified in the app's Security prefs. This never worked reliably for me before this version and a visit to Apple's own site after a browser reset always got me a fresh new webtrendslive cookie. Ditto most big sites. B From pelorus at mac.com Mon Feb 2 16:28:46 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration Message-ID: This article got me all fired up, I'm thinking that it's about time for Apple to unleash their team of enterprise experts and a series of hard hitting adverts that push Macs in the Enterprise :) I especially like and agree with the point in bold (my emphasis): > The summary report card gives Apple and LLNL the following grades: > * Security = A > * Integration with Enterprise apps = C > * OS 9 to X transition = B > * Getting help from Apple = C+ > > Finally under the heading Difficulties for Apple LLNL lists these: > * "Outstanding product with limited market depth due to lingering > past perceptions > * Complaints of 'lack of' enterprise applications and/or native > developer tools from mainstream companies like Oracle, BEA, > PeopleSoft, SAP and Siebel." > > And under Good Actions for Apple to take are these two: > * "Develop a working balance between Apple's needed > 'confidentiality' and Corporate IT's need of 'roadmap' information > * Engage technical staff and users at customers' Mac technical & > user group mtgs" http://weblog.infoworld.com/techwatch/archives/000268.html -- USPCA Gala Night: http://www.nimug.org/ A night of fine dining, dancing and entertainment You can email uspca@nimug.org for more information. For ticket sales please ring their National Helpline on 02890 814242. From thomasv at mac.com Mon Feb 2 16:44:32 2004 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> I would be interested in the marketshare statistics for 2000 through current vs. 1997 which I thinks skews the data. Cheers, Tom On Feb 2, 2004, at 4:28 PM, Matt wrote: > > This article got me all fired up, I'm thinking that it's about time > for Apple to unleash their team of enterprise experts and a series of > hard hitting adverts that push Macs in the Enterprise :) > > I especially like and agree with the point in bold (my emphasis): > >> The summary report card gives Apple and LLNL the following grades: >> * Security = A >> * Integration with Enterprise apps = C >> * OS 9 to X transition = B >> * Getting help from Apple = C+ >> >> Finally under the heading Difficulties for Apple LLNL lists these: >> * "Outstanding product with limited market depth due to lingering >> past perceptions >> * Complaints of 'lack of' enterprise applications and/or native >> developer tools from mainstream companies like Oracle, BEA, >> PeopleSoft, SAP and Siebel." >> >> And under Good Actions for Apple to take are these two: >> * "Develop a working balance between Apple's needed >> 'confidentiality' and Corporate IT's need of 'roadmap' information >> * Engage technical staff and users at customers' Mac technical & >> user group mtgs" > > http://weblog.infoworld.com/techwatch/archives/000268.html > > > > > -- > USPCA Gala Night: http://www.nimug.org/ > A night of fine dining, dancing and entertainment > You can email uspca@nimug.org for more information. > For ticket sales please ring their National Helpline on 02890 814242. > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > _______________________________________________ MacSec.info - Mac OS X Security News and more http://www.macsec.info/ MacSec.info From jeff at olympos.com.au Mon Feb 2 16:52:54 2004 From: jeff at olympos.com.au (Jeff Edwards) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: VPC for a G5 . when? In-Reply-To: <195F97B5-5592-11D8-9970-003065505B48@mac.com> References: <195F97B5-5592-11D8-9970-003065505B48@mac.com> Message-ID: <4CC42986-55E3-11D8-8ABC-000A95AFC638@olympos.com.au> Any one have any inkling of when Virtual PC 6 will be running on a G5? Jeff Edwards From das at doit.wisc.edu Mon Feb 2 17:02:09 2004 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: VPC for a G5 . when? In-Reply-To: <4CC42986-55E3-11D8-8ABC-000A95AFC638@olympos.com.au> References: <195F97B5-5592-11D8-9970-003065505B48@mac.com> <4CC42986-55E3-11D8-8ABC-000A95AFC638@olympos.com.au> Message-ID: <97EC3E06-55E4-11D8-AFE7-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> "First half of 2004". From: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040106/sftu020_1.html > Introducing Virtual PC for Mac Version 7 > > Mac users who need a bridge to the Windows world can benefit from > Microsoft Virtual PC for Mac Version 7. It provides access to > Windows-only software, networks and devices -- without users having to > leave their Macs. Virtual PC for Mac Version 7 with Windows XP > Professional will ship for the first time as part of Office 2004 for > Mac Professional Edition and as a stand- alone product in the first > half of 2004. Virtual PC 7 will be available with other guest > operating systems a few months after this debut. Customers can look > forward to key enhancements over the current version 6.1, including > performance and usability improvements, as well as compatibility with > the Macintosh G5. On Feb 2, 2004, at 6:52 PM, Jeff Edwards wrote: > Any one have any inkling of when Virtual PC 6 will be running on a G5? > > Jeff Edwards > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Feb 2 16:40:13 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: somewhat related, i recently dug this up for a different discussion: >"6. Mac are used extensively in the creative arts, sciences and education >Apple Federal Reps Stated at the 1/24/02 Mac User Group Meeting >* ~13000 Macintoshes are in use at Lawrence Livermore >* ~4000 Macintoshes are in use at NASA AIMS >* ~3000 Macintoshes are in use at JPL >* ~3000 Macintoshes are in use at Los Alamos National >* ~3000 Macintoshes are in use at Sandia National Lab" -- steve harley From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Feb 2 17:21:28 2004 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A563E66-55E7-11D8-8892-000393D5A2A2@mac.com> On Feb 2, 2004, at 4:45 AM, Scott Maier wrote: > > I just wanted to send a quick note to let everyone know that we have > released OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1: > > > > Be sure to have a look at the release notes, too! > > Awesome! As I hoped, OW5 handles color well - as well as or better than any other browser, IMHO. I need to do a more comprehensive run-through (test suite at home) but looks good. The only danger is that it does handle color differently than Safari... which may now be the benchmark/indicators on OSX (don't know how Omni feels about that). However, I for one would welcome a browser that handles all the many color management scenarios well... Safari handles some well, not others (likewise for pretty much all other browsers on current platforms - IE/Mac was great in its day, though still failed on some tests). Congrats guys, this will definitely be my default browser come .0 time... I would hope everyone who frequents this list would send a big thanks and the better-than-reasonable license fee when sales open. I would heavily encourage you to add an option for a more traditional tab bar... I dig the new proxy image tabs, but I think in many cases I'm going to want horizontal, text-only (plus favico) tabs. Speaking of, what happened to favico's? PS, Ken Case, you're my hero :) -R From thomasv at mac.com Mon Feb 2 17:45:01 2004 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <949078A8-55EA-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> I would give different grades to sites in general: Security: A- Security has been a good spot for OS X and Apple. When it became apparent that security was going to be a big point, Apple was very proactive about making sure their i's were dotted, and t's crossed. . But there are little things I would nail them on. Like the lack of sftp support in the go to server in the finder menu or porting over syn_cache from FreeBSD. Integration with Enterprise apps: B So they have done a ok job. If you want good AD integration you still have to purchase Thursby's product. Which has become a lot more reasonable. Why Apple didn't buy them years ago, I don't know. It would be a big statement if they bought them. That Apple was serious about integrating into non Apple/Unix environments. Plus, this whole NIS works, NIS is broken, NIS works bit is getting old. Unix shops want NIS! Windows shops want easy Active directory integration. HEY STEVE BUY THURSBY!! Have your spokespeople get over the on/off again statement about the enterprise. OS 9 to X transition: B Ok so it wasn't like a click of a button. But it was pretty darn good. Getting help from Apple = C Apple needs to put permanent AE's/SE's out at sites like NASA-AMES, LLNL and the big education sites. Forget trying to sell these guys consulting hours, just get someone out there on a semi-permanent basis who can listen and fix these guys problems. It will pay off in the long run. Cheers, Tom On Feb 2, 2004, at 4:44 PM, Thomas Vincent wrote: >>> * Security = A >>> * Integration with Enterprise apps = C >>> * OS 9 to X transition = B >>> * Getting help from Apple = C+ _______________________________________________ MacSec.info - Mac OS X Security News and more http://www.macsec.info/ MacSec.info From lwpeng at earthlink.net Mon Feb 2 18:25:52 2004 From: lwpeng at earthlink.net (Lawrence Peng) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: test only Message-ID: <497DA156-55F0-11D8-9A2F-000A95C4AC0C@earthlink.net> test only From lwpeng at earthlink.net Mon Feb 2 20:17:13 2004 From: lwpeng at earthlink.net (Lawrence Peng) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ***Anything I say below is strictly my own opinion******* As one of the co-presenters of the Macworld session which the blog referenced, let me just offer a bit of insight (while still trying to not get into too much hot water).... First, my position within LLNL.... I am part of the sys admin group (all two of us) which support the LLNL Director's Office. If this was Apple, this would mean I get the job of supporting the Apple senior management...... Individuals at the lab have been hounding Apple for awhile to get some kind of "permanent" presence to help solve issues the lab run into. To be fair though, the organizations at the lab which would benefit most could be doing a better job in reaching out to Apple. We do have local Mac Tech seminars, and I think we have been successful in getting interesting speakers to talk about various Mac topics--of course being only 45 minutes from Apple headquarters helps!! But it can still be a struggle at times. The Macworld presentation was done with the focus on our desktop users--which means the "traditional" Apple markets, office administrators, institutional lab applications, etc. In this sense, Virginia Tech style needs were not given the principal consideration. Ironically, many of the above desktop folks seem to have a hard time understanding the details of the OS security or networking--aside from "type or choose this item, and hit return". So while there are certainly improvements Apple can do, the default security for many of our users is very good out-of-the-box. Enterprise apps grade was a bit of a judgement call. Some of our institutional folks would say the grade should be a F or a D because of our own logistical problems. I still keep hearing about how the Mac is too complicated, we cannot support multiple browsers, Apple is still totally closed, etc. Frankly, many of our institutional apps were not even tested with OSX until Apple itself made the announcement about machines being OSX booting only. Until then, I do not think the lab took the OSX transition all that seriously. When the hardware booting announcement was made, then all sh&* hit the fan and they started basic testing--and to be fair to them they did put some priority into it. With some tweaking, many of our enterprise apps worked acceptably. Some apps would require using Classic for while because of vendor delays which was out of our control. So the enterprise grade is a bit of an average. Yes we could have done better in getting ready for the transition, vendors could have done better, etc., but the fact is that the apps were working (maybe via Classic for some). While Classic may not be ideal, users still got their job done, and in my support area we did not notice users having a huge issue with using Classic. The OS 9 to X transition, in my opinion, has gone about as well as could have been expected. I thank Apple daily for first announcing OS 9 was dead, and then the booting announcement. since that helped get most of my local users to wake up and accept that the transition was coming. Naturally was had a few early adopters (starting with OSX 10.1) to help out, and the move started big time for my area with Jaguar. There was significant movement in the lab to OSX with Jaguar, and now with Panther it looks like the stragglers are coming in. Compatibility for most everything we did in my area with existing equipment in Classic was excellent. The two big exceptions--scanners and label printers. Fortunately for our area not everybody needed these capabilties, so we migrated them last, while the vendors mostly got their act together. The only "significant" problems with the transition was the expected "its not OS 9, its not a Mac anymore!, all my files are gone! I do not want a home directory, this is MY machine!!!" Almost invariably the tirades lasted 1 to 2 weeks, and then it became "this is great, what is the big deal?, boy the OS is stable, the screensaver is so soothing, I WANT my GNU chess!, I can use the dock to store and launch items (and it can be moved??)----COOL!!" I think it is fair to say that the Mac decline at the lab has stabilized --especially with OSX, and the other interesting and fun stuff Apple has put out. The lab is rather decentralized, so it is not likely that our Director will ever (even if he wanted to) be able to make a blanket declaration about which platform to use--he is on a Mac right now :-) Actually I think it is fair to say that about half of senior management is running the Mac. I would even go so far as to expect that the Mac usage will increase some as well as time goes on. At least among the scientists and engineers, OSX is having an impact. I know of several departments (though not many) who have ditched Windows now---if you are on a PC, you have Linux; if on a Mac you have OSX. And the fact we now have pretty good Fortran compilers from IBM is just more good news. And the Virginia Tech project did get the attention of the head of the supercomputing programs here. If even got the attention of the Director, who then started asking a few questions. I saw another post which said LLNL had around 13K Macs in January 2002. My suspicion is that may have been what inventory databases came up with, but as to how many of them were in active use I cannot say. We certainly had numbers in that neighborhood during the glory years in the mid-nineties. Then again, what data sources you use to make the final tally is an issue which I will not go into here :-) One thing I would like to see the lab improve on is attending some of the conferences (like WWDC) to get some better info on where the Mac is headed. Right now, only myself and a handful of other ordinary worker bees try to go. Unfortunately that means the info we get sometimes gets scattered. I try to write summaries of WWDC to senior managers who I know will at least read it. I would like to think that I have some influence, but who knows. Unfortunately, I do not know anyone at the institutional level who attends, and thus it is not unusual that some info they get from the industry trade press. For example, when WebKit was shown at last years WWDC, our people initially panicked (this was before the announcements concerning IE on Mac and Windows were announced)--then they heard Linux mentioned, and came to the conclusion it must be just an Apple name for Mozilla. It tooks several phone calls, as well as my colleague and I trying to help arrange an Apple Executive briefing to get that cleared up after weeks of confusion. Even with the struggles we had in getting the Macworld presentation approved for public release, I am glad to see it struck a chord with some people (grin). Cheers, Larry On Feb 2, 2004, at 4:28 PM, Matt wrote: > > This article got me all fired up, I'm thinking that it's about time > for Apple to unleash their team of enterprise experts and a series of > hard hitting adverts that push Macs in the Enterprise :) > > I especially like and agree with the point in bold (my emphasis): > >> The summary report card gives Apple and LLNL the following grades: >> * Security = A >> * Integration with Enterprise apps = C >> * OS 9 to X transition = B >> * Getting help from Apple = C+ >> >> Finally under the heading Difficulties for Apple LLNL lists these: >> * "Outstanding product with limited market depth due to lingering >> past perceptions >> * Complaints of 'lack of' enterprise applications and/or native >> developer tools from mainstream companies like Oracle, BEA, >> PeopleSoft, SAP and Siebel." >> >> And under Good Actions for Apple to take are these two: >> * "Develop a working balance between Apple's needed >> 'confidentiality' and Corporate IT's need of 'roadmap' information >> * Engage technical staff and users at customers' Mac technical & >> user group mtgs" > > http://weblog.infoworld.com/techwatch/archives/000268.html > > > > > -- > USPCA Gala Night: http://www.nimug.org/ > A night of fine dining, dancing and entertainment > You can email uspca@nimug.org for more information. > For ticket sales please ring their National Helpline on 02890 814242. > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From thomasv at mac.com Mon Feb 2 20:25:51 2004 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0CD77041-5601-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> ***I literally live right down the street from Larry and on occasion have lunch with him.***=P I think Larry's OWN OPINION could be used to describe the situation at a lot of Apple sites. Cheers, Tom On Feb 2, 2004, at 8:17 PM, Lawrence Peng wrote: > > ***Anything I say below is strictly my own opinion******* > > As one of the co-presenters of the Macworld session which the blog > referenced, let me just offer a bit of insight (while still trying to > not get into too much hot water).... > > First, my position within LLNL.... > > I am part of the sys admin group (all two of us) which support the > LLNL Director's Office. If this was Apple, this would mean I get the > job of supporting the Apple senior management...... > > Individuals at the lab have been hounding Apple for awhile to get some > kind of "permanent" presence to help solve issues the lab run into. > To be fair though, the organizations at the lab which would benefit > most could be doing a better job in reaching out to Apple. We do have > local Mac Tech seminars, and I think we have been successful in > getting interesting speakers to talk about various Mac topics--of > course being only 45 minutes from Apple headquarters helps!! But it > can still be a struggle at times. > > The Macworld presentation was done with the focus on our desktop > users--which means the "traditional" Apple markets, office > administrators, institutional lab applications, etc. In this sense, > Virginia Tech style needs were not given the principal consideration. > Ironically, many of the above desktop folks seem to have a hard time > understanding the details of the OS security or networking--aside from > "type or choose this item, and hit return". So while there are > certainly improvements Apple can do, the default security for many of > our users is very good out-of-the-box. > > Enterprise apps grade was a bit of a judgement call. Some of our > institutional folks would say the grade should be a F or a D because > of our own logistical problems. I still keep hearing about how the > Mac is too complicated, we cannot support multiple browsers, Apple is > still totally closed, etc. Frankly, many of our institutional apps > were not even tested with OSX until Apple itself made the announcement > about machines being OSX booting only. Until then, I do not think the > lab took the OSX transition all that seriously. When the hardware > booting announcement was made, then all sh&* hit the fan and they > started basic testing--and to be fair to them they did put some > priority into it. > > With some tweaking, many of our enterprise apps worked acceptably. > Some apps would require using Classic for while because of vendor > delays which was out of our control. So the enterprise grade is a bit > of an average. Yes we could have done better in getting ready for the > transition, vendors could have done better, etc., but the fact is that > the apps were working (maybe via Classic for some). While Classic may > not be ideal, users still got their job done, and in my support area > we did not notice users having a huge issue with using Classic. > > The OS 9 to X transition, in my opinion, has gone about as well as > could have been expected. I thank Apple daily for first announcing OS > 9 was dead, and then the booting announcement. since that helped get > most of my local users to wake up and accept that the transition was > coming. Naturally was had a few early adopters (starting with OSX > 10.1) to help out, and the move started big time for my area with > Jaguar. There was significant movement in the lab to OSX with Jaguar, > and now with Panther it looks like the stragglers are coming in. > > Compatibility for most everything we did in my area with existing > equipment in Classic was excellent. The two big exceptions--scanners > and label printers. Fortunately for our area not everybody needed > these capabilties, so we migrated them last, while the vendors mostly > got their act together. > > The only "significant" problems with the transition was the expected > "its not OS 9, its not a Mac anymore!, all my files are gone! I do > not want a home directory, this is MY machine!!!" Almost invariably > the tirades lasted 1 to 2 weeks, and then it became "this is great, > what is the big deal?, boy the OS is stable, the screensaver is so > soothing, I WANT my GNU chess!, I can use the dock to store and launch > items (and it can be moved??)----COOL!!" > > I think it is fair to say that the Mac decline at the lab has > stabilized --especially with OSX, and the other interesting and fun > stuff Apple has put out. The lab is rather decentralized, so it is > not likely that our Director will ever (even if he wanted to) be able > to make a blanket declaration about which platform to use--he is on a > Mac right now :-) Actually I think it is fair to say that about half > of senior management is running the Mac. > > I would even go so far as to expect that the Mac usage will increase > some as well as time goes on. At least among the scientists and > engineers, OSX is having an impact. I know of several departments > (though not many) who have ditched Windows now---if you are on a PC, > you have Linux; if on a Mac you have OSX. And the fact we now have > pretty good Fortran compilers from IBM is just more good news. And > the Virginia Tech project did get the attention of the head of the > supercomputing programs here. If even got the attention of the > Director, who then started asking a few questions. > > I saw another post which said LLNL had around 13K Macs in January > 2002. My suspicion is that may have been what inventory databases > came up with, but as to how many of them were in active use I cannot > say. We certainly had numbers in that neighborhood during the glory > years in the mid-nineties. Then again, what data sources you use to > make the final tally is an issue which I will not go into here :-) > > One thing I would like to see the lab improve on is attending some of > the conferences (like WWDC) to get some better info on where the Mac > is headed. Right now, only myself and a handful of other ordinary > worker bees try to go. Unfortunately that means the info we get > sometimes gets scattered. I try to write summaries of WWDC to senior > managers who I know will at least read it. I would like to think that > I have some influence, but who knows. Unfortunately, I do not know > anyone at the institutional level who attends, and thus it is not > unusual that some info they get from the industry trade press. For > example, when WebKit was shown at last years WWDC, our people > initially panicked (this was before the announcements concerning IE on > Mac and Windows were announced)--then they heard Linux mentioned, and > came to the conclusion it must be just an Apple name for Mozilla. It > tooks several phone calls, as well as my colleague and I trying to > help arrange an Apple Executive briefing to get that cleared up after > weeks of confusion. > > Even with the struggles we had in getting the Macworld presentation > approved for public release, I am glad to see it struck a chord with > some people (grin). > > Cheers, > > Larry > > On Feb 2, 2004, at 4:28 PM, Matt wrote: > >> >> This article got me all fired up, I'm thinking that it's about time >> for Apple to unleash their team of enterprise experts and a series of >> hard hitting adverts that push Macs in the Enterprise :) >> >> I especially like and agree with the point in bold (my emphasis): >> >>> The summary report card gives Apple and LLNL the following grades: >>> * Security = A >>> * Integration with Enterprise apps = C >>> * OS 9 to X transition = B >>> * Getting help from Apple = C+ >>> >>> Finally under the heading Difficulties for Apple LLNL lists these: >>> * "Outstanding product with limited market depth due to lingering >>> past perceptions >>> * Complaints of 'lack of' enterprise applications and/or native >>> developer tools from mainstream companies like Oracle, BEA, >>> PeopleSoft, SAP and Siebel." >>> >>> And under Good Actions for Apple to take are these two: >>> * "Develop a working balance between Apple's needed >>> 'confidentiality' and Corporate IT's need of 'roadmap' information >>> * Engage technical staff and users at customers' Mac technical & >>> user group mtgs" >> >> http://weblog.infoworld.com/techwatch/archives/000268.html >> >> >> >> >> -- >> USPCA Gala Night: http://www.nimug.org/ >> A night of fine dining, dancing and entertainment >> You can email uspca@nimug.org for more information. >> For ticket sales please ring their National Helpline on 02890 814242. >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >> > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > _______________________________________________ MacSec.info - Mac OS X Security News and more http://www.macsec.info/ MacSec.info From Joshua.McKinnon at une.edu.au Mon Feb 2 20:26:51 2004 From: Joshua.McKinnon at une.edu.au (Joshua McKinnon) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Address book and bluetooth Message-ID: <308E66D5-5601-11D8-A10F-000A957CBEF2@une.edu.au> When I receive a text message on my bluetooth phone, it pops up in a nice box below all my other windows. As far as I've noticed, Address Book makes no movement or sound to tell me that a message is there. Is this normal behaviour (me --> radar), or is there a way that I've missed to make Address Book get my attention? ps. Doesn't it suck when you're away from the computer and you have to actually type messages into the *phone*!! -josh From macosxtalk at robburns.com Mon Feb 2 22:33:13 2004 From: macosxtalk at robburns.com (Robert Burns) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: a lead on the MyDoom case Message-ID: From: > With such a program you could really take out any major Web site on > the Internet," said Raimund Genes, European president of security > software firm Trend Micro. "This is a form of electronic warfare. It's > not terrorism, but it is somebody who is obviously upset with SCO Well that should narrow it down. The crime profiler tells us to find someone with a knowledge of computer programming whose upset with SCO. Rob Burns From jared at 23x.net Tue Feb 3 00:04:11 2004 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: VPC for a G5 . when? In-Reply-To: <97EC3E06-55E4-11D8-AFE7-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> References: <195F97B5-5592-11D8-9970-003065505B48@mac.com> <4CC42986-55E3-11D8-8ABC-000A95AFC638@olympos.com.au> <97EC3E06-55E4-11D8-AFE7-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <8CE57245-561F-11D8-8634-000A958F180A@23x.net> On 3 Feb 2004, at 02:02, Dave Schroeder wrote: > "First half of 2004". >> Introducing Virtual PC for Mac Version 7 >> >> Mac users who need a bridge to the Windows world can benefit from >> Microsoft Virtual PC for Mac Version 7. [...] > On Feb 2, 2004, at 6:52 PM, Jeff Edwards wrote: > >> Any one have any inkling of when Virtual PC 6 will be running on a G5? (excuse the top-posted mess above ...) I think the correct answer would be "never. How's never for you?" They're not going to fix 6, they're going to 'force' you to buy 7. Oh, well, at least RDC works damned fine; I suppose it has to as it's the nearest I can get to running Win32 on my G5. -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "There is no SPORK" From scott at maxify.com Tue Feb 3 00:07:15 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: How can I get Mail to forgive me? In-Reply-To: <1283893.1075767428943.JavaMail.jimbokun_lists@mac.com> References: <1283893.1075767428943.JavaMail.jimbokun_lists@mac.com> Message-ID: On Feb 2, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Jim Rankin wrote: > I have .mac account specifically for lists (this one), a personal > account, and my wife's account. We have been happily reading these > accounts with Mail.app for a goodly while now, until recently. Now > both my lists account and my wife's account are greyed out, and if I > select one of them and click Get Mail, Mail just makes an obscene > gesture at me (beeps). Doesn't prompt for a password, nada. My > personal account still works without a hitch, but not these two > accounts. Take a look at: Mailbox menu > Online Status > Take "" online - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From pelorus at mac.com Tue Feb 3 01:01:36 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9216C7F8-5627-11D8-88F0-000A95DC1742@mac.com> On 3 Feb 2004, at 04:17, Lawrence Peng wrote: > ***Anything I say below is strictly my own opinion******* :P > I am part of the sys admin group (all two of us) which support the > LLNL Director's Office. If this was Apple, this would mean I get the > job of supporting the Apple senior management...... That job came up at Apple last year. I was tempted. > -of course being only 45 minutes from Apple headquarters helps!! But > it can still be a struggle at times. You should try being 6000 miles from Apple HQ. > I think it is fair to say that the Mac decline at the lab has > stabilized --especially with OSX, and the other interesting and fun > stuff Apple has put out. The lab is rather decentralized, so it is > not likely that our Director will ever (even if he wanted to) be able > to make a blanket declaration about which platform to use--he is on a > Mac right now :-) Actually I think it is fair to say that about half > of senior management is running the Mac. When I worked at Nortel we had over 10 000 Macs. Sadly OSX and the revitalised Apple came too late for there and at the same time as Bill having lunch with our CEO which resulted in a rather lacklustre "WIN" project to rid Nortel of non-standard Mac and UNIX machines. The irony was not lost. Had we had Mac OS X I think it would have stayed the execution and it was just bad timing - this was all happening 1996-1998 just when Apple was finding it's feet with NeXT. > It tooks several phone calls, as well as my colleague and I trying to > help arrange an Apple Executive briefing to get that cleared up after > weeks of confusion. Man, you guys get all the cool stuff. I'm going to have to get a large enterprise switched here.... > Even with the struggles we had in getting the Macworld presentation > approved for public release, I am glad to see it struck a chord with > some people (grin). Actually inspiring in some cases. Well done Larry. M USPCA Gala Night: http://www.nimug.org/ A night of fine dining, dancing and entertainment You can email uspca@nimug.org for more information. For ticket sales please ring their National Helpline on 02890 814242. From kremels at kreme.com Tue Feb 3 01:31:14 2004 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Restoring messages from cache Message-ID: My mail server died last week and after spending the last week getting everything back and running correctly (mostly) I would like to restore all my messages from my IMAP spool to the server. I have several thousand (ok, maybe several hundred thousand) messages spread over a couple of hundred mailboxes. I have kept the original ~/Library/Mail folder intact. However, looking at the messages in there: ~ $ head Documents/Mail.back/Mail/IMAP-kremels\@southgaylord.com/macosx-talk/ 2004-01.macosx-talk.imapmbox/CachedMessages/1 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kremels@kreme.com Delivered-To: kremels@covisp.net Received: from slowbro.omnigroup.com (slowbro.omnigroup.com [198.151.161.41]) there is no From_ header, so I can't simply concatenate these messages into a mbox file. I can copy the So, how do I restore these messages to the IMAP server? I was thinking of something along the lines of $ cat /path/to/mail.imapbox/CachedMessages/* > temp.box $ formail -ds < temp.box >> /path/to/new/mbox and then uplaoding the mbox to the IMAP server and just dropping it in place, but that will result in ever message having today's date in the FROM_ header, which I would rather avoid. Do I have to create a procmail recipe to extract the Date: header and manually rewrite the FROM_ header? I know I can use -a Date: in formail, but that will create a FROM_ header with the wrong date format, and I'm not sure how much of a problem this will be. Since I am dealing with so much mail, I'd really like to avoid any surprises. Any suggestions? -- Don't congratulate yourself too much, or berate yourself either. Your choices are half chance; so are everybody else's. From surajrai at mac.com Tue Feb 3 05:34:38 2004 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: Related to this...the following article on Harvard Business School's website appeared which says that Mac users total 8 million are likely to decline year after year. http://workingknowledge.hbs.edu/item.jhtml?id=3877&t=marketing Don't know if I agree on the article but he does make a few points...especially about the difference between a BMW and a Ford (in price) vs. a Mac and a Dell as well as dependencies on hit products like the iPod to drive sales/growth. S.r. On Feb 3, 2004, at 9:44 AM, Thomas Vincent wrote: > I would be interested in the marketshare statistics for 2000 through > current vs. 1997 which I thinks skews the data. > > Cheers, > Tom > > On Feb 2, 2004, at 4:28 PM, Matt wrote: > >> >> This article got me all fired up, I'm thinking that it's about time >> for Apple to unleash their team of enterprise experts and a series of >> hard hitting adverts that push Macs in the Enterprise :) >> >> I especially like and agree with the point in bold (my emphasis): >> >>> The summary report card gives Apple and LLNL the following grades: >>> * Security = A >>> * Integration with Enterprise apps = C >>> * OS 9 to X transition = B >>> * Getting help from Apple = C+ >>> >>> Finally under the heading Difficulties for Apple LLNL lists these: >>> * "Outstanding product with limited market depth due to lingering >>> past perceptions >>> * Complaints of 'lack of' enterprise applications and/or native >>> developer tools from mainstream companies like Oracle, BEA, >>> PeopleSoft, SAP and Siebel." >>> >>> And under Good Actions for Apple to take are these two: >>> * "Develop a working balance between Apple's needed >>> 'confidentiality' and Corporate IT's need of 'roadmap' information >>> * Engage technical staff and users at customers' Mac technical & >>> user group mtgs" >> >> http://weblog.infoworld.com/techwatch/archives/000268.html >> >> >> >> >> -- >> USPCA Gala Night: http://www.nimug.org/ >> A night of fine dining, dancing and entertainment >> You can email uspca@nimug.org for more information. >> For ticket sales please ring their National Helpline on 02890 814242. >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >> > _______________________________________________ > MacSec.info - Mac OS X Security News and more > http://www.macsec.info/ > MacSec.info > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From zbir at urbanape.com Tue Feb 3 06:14:42 2004 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. Message-ID: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Option-up and option-down will take you through the current page, then up or down through the tabs. So, if you have a workspace for all your blogs (haven't had time to set up the aggregation stuff), you can read through them all in one go. Very cool. Zac From zbir at urbanape.com Tue Feb 3 06:27:24 2004 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Message-ID: <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Feb 3, 2004, at 9:14 AM, Zachery Bir wrote: > Option-up and option-down will take you through the current page, then > up or down through the tabs. So, if you have a workspace for all your > blogs (haven't had time to set up the aggregation stuff), you can read > through them all in one go. Very cool. So, apparently, will the space/shift-space! ?ber-cool, guys! Zac From eric at EMIEng.com Tue Feb 3 08:04:51 2004 From: eric at EMIEng.com (Eric Marshall) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:57 2005 Subject: OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1 Message-ID: How do you add the current URL to a specific bookmark folder? When you display the bookmarks the current URL switches to bookmarks:/. Thanks in advance. From eric at EMIEng.com Tue Feb 3 08:35:52 2004 From: eric at EMIEng.com (Eric Marshall) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Mail.app won't display Junk messages Message-ID: <084F5A47-5667-11D8-A397-000393666600@EMIEng.com> I just set the preference to have Junk mail automatically moved to its own mailbox. The Junk folder was created, and Mail.app shows that there are many unread messages in it. But when I view the mailbox, no messages are displayed. Also, I selected the menu item to mark all Junk messages as read, but the Junk message are still identified as unread. I'm running 10.3.2. Thanks in advance. From fabienlroy at mac.com Tue Feb 3 09:05:11 2004 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Mail.app won't display Junk messages In-Reply-To: <084F5A47-5667-11D8-A397-000393666600@EMIEng.com> References: <084F5A47-5667-11D8-A397-000393666600@EMIEng.com> Message-ID: <208B9A7E-566B-11D8-A2F6-000393658196@mac.com> Try Maibox->Rebuild menu when the individual junk folder is selected. Fabien On Feb 3, 2004, at 8:35 AM, Eric Marshall wrote: > I just set the preference to have Junk mail automatically > moved to its own mailbox. The Junk folder was created, and Mail.app > shows that there are many unread messages in it. But when I view > the mailbox, no messages are displayed. Also, I selected the menu > item to mark all Junk messages as read, but the Junk message are > still identified as unread. I'm running 10.3.2. > > Thanks in advance. > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From eric at EMIEng.com Tue Feb 3 09:19:50 2004 From: eric at EMIEng.com (Eric Marshall) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Mail.app won't display Junk messages In-Reply-To: <208B9A7E-566B-11D8-A2F6-000393658196@mac.com> References: <084F5A47-5667-11D8-A397-000393666600@EMIEng.com> <208B9A7E-566B-11D8-A2F6-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <2C4E285E-566D-11D8-88DD-000393666600@EMIEng.com> The menu item is disabled after selecting the Junk mailbox :-( Another thing I noticed is that when I get a new message that *I* mark as Junk, the message then disappears from the In mailbox display, but stays in the INBOX.mbox/mbox file. > Fabien Roy wrote: > Try Maibox->Rebuild menu when the individual junk folder is selected. > >> Eric Marshall wrote: >> >> I just set the preference to have Junk mail automatically >> moved to its own mailbox. The Junk folder was created, and Mail.app >> shows that there are many unread messages in it. But when I view >> the mailbox, no messages are displayed. Also, I selected the menu >> item to mark all Junk messages as read, but the Junk message are >> still identified as unread. I'm running 10.3.2. >> >> Thanks in advance. From fabienlroy at mac.com Tue Feb 3 10:09:51 2004 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Mail.app won't display Junk messages In-Reply-To: <2C4E285E-566D-11D8-88DD-000393666600@EMIEng.com> References: <084F5A47-5667-11D8-A397-000393666600@EMIEng.com> <208B9A7E-566B-11D8-A2F6-000393658196@mac.com> <2C4E285E-566D-11D8-88DD-000393666600@EMIEng.com> Message-ID: <28F97AD5-5674-11D8-A2F6-000393658196@mac.com> You have to select the individual junk mailbox: -------------- next part -------------- Hope that helps. Fabien On Feb 3, 2004, at 9:19 AM, Eric Marshall wrote: > The menu item is disabled after selecting the Junk mailbox :-( > Another thing I noticed is that when I get a new message that *I* > mark as Junk, the message then disappears from the In mailbox display, > but stays in the INBOX.mbox/mbox file. > > >> Fabien Roy wrote: >> Try Maibox->Rebuild menu when the individual junk folder is selected. >> >>> Eric Marshall wrote: >>> >>> I just set the preference to have Junk mail automatically >>> moved to its own mailbox. The Junk folder was created, and Mail.app >>> shows that there are many unread messages in it. But when I view >>> the mailbox, no messages are displayed. Also, I selected the menu >>> item to mark all Junk messages as read, but the Junk message are >>> still identified as unread. I'm running 10.3.2. >>> >>> Thanks in advance. > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From fabienlroy at mac.com Tue Feb 3 10:26:21 2004 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Mail.app won't display Junk messages In-Reply-To: References: <084F5A47-5667-11D8-A397-000393666600@EMIEng.com> <208B9A7E-566B-11D8-A2F6-000393658196@mac.com> <2C4E285E-566D-11D8-88DD-000393666600@EMIEng.com> <28F97AD5-5674-11D8-A2F6-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <77323101-5676-11D8-A2F6-000393658196@mac.com> Let's do it the hard way: Quit Mail.app in a terminal window type cd ~//Library/Mail/Mailboxes ls -F you should see your Junk folder type: cd > example, mine is: > cd Junk\ \(iTools:fabienlroy@mail.mac.com\).mbox type: ls -l You shhoud see a file name table_of_contents. > -rw-r--r-- 1 fabienr staff 356 3 Feb 09:04 Info.plist > -rw-r--r-- 1 fabienr staff 0 3 Feb 10:06 mbox > -rw-r--r-- 1 fabienr staff 36 3 Feb 10:17 table_of_contents you will have to remove it: rm table_of_contents relaunch mail and test. Fabien On Feb 3, 2004, at 10:13 AM, Eric Marshall wrote: >> You have to select the individual junk mailbox: >> >> >> Hope that helps. > > I don't have any sub-Junk folders :-( > > From ian at SKYLIST.net Tue Feb 3 10:30:42 2004 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Message-ID: <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> On Feb 3, 2004, at 8:27 AM, Zachery Bir wrote: > On Feb 3, 2004, at 9:14 AM, Zachery Bir wrote: > >> Option-up and option-down will take you through the current page, >> then up or down through the tabs. So, if you have a workspace for all >> your blogs (haven't had time to set up the aggregation stuff), you >> can read through them all in one go. Very cool. > > So, apparently, will the space/shift-space! ?ber-cool, guys! Yes, that is super cool, but they hijacked the key command to go to the top of the page (Cmd-up arrow). I can live with a new shortcut (if there is one) but I haven't found one yet. Ian From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Feb 3 09:09:58 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: OmniWeb 5.0 beta 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 2004-02-03, 11:04 AM -0500, they whom i call Eric Marshall wrote: > How do you add the current URL to a specific bookmark folder? When >you display the bookmarks the current URL switches to bookmarks:/. command-d, just like in Safari -- steve harley From zbir at urbanape.com Tue Feb 3 10:41:08 2004 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: <87EFE98A-5678-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Feb 3, 2004, at 1:30 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > On Feb 3, 2004, at 8:27 AM, Zachery Bir wrote: > >> On Feb 3, 2004, at 9:14 AM, Zachery Bir wrote: >> >>> Option-up and option-down will take you through the current page, >>> then up or down through the tabs. So, if you have a workspace for >>> all your blogs (haven't had time to set up the aggregation stuff), >>> you can read through them all in one go. Very cool. >> >> So, apparently, will the space/shift-space! ?ber-cool, guys! > > Yes, that is super cool, but they hijacked the key command to go to > the top of the page (Cmd-up arrow). I can live with a new shortcut > (if there is one) but I haven't found one yet. Yeah, I'd have been happier with command-shift-up/down to pop between tabs (analogous to Safari's command-shift-left/right) and left command-up/down to go to the top and bottom of the current page. Zac From jmetz at communiweb.net Tue Feb 3 11:34:12 2004 From: jmetz at communiweb.net (J Michel Metz) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: ARD Daisy Chaining Message-ID: FYI I have a client who has a Mac network behind an airport extreme base station. Unfortunately, they're located over 45 minutes away, so I came up with a "brilliant plan" of using ARD to manage the network: Use ARD to connect to the main server, which is also running ARD Admin. Once inside the network (you can only connect to one computer through port forwarding in airport), turn on ARD Admin on *that* computer and administer the local network. Imagine my surprise when it actually *worked*. On the first try. So excited was I that I checked to make sure everything was working and then merely logged out of ARD on my own laptop, leaving everything else running on the network. So, here's the bite and the caveat: I couldn't re-login to the administrator computer using ARD, because I had left ARD running on *that* machine. So, MAKE SURE you log out of ARD in reverse sequence! Otherwise, it works like a freakin' dream. :) J J Michel Metz, Ph.D, ACTC Communiweb Communications, Inc. http://www.communiweb.net 407.971.9089 From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Tue Feb 3 11:40:51 2004 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: On Feb 3, 2004, at 13:34, Suraj Rai wrote: > Don't know if I agree on the article but he does make a few > points...especially about the difference between a BMW and a Ford (in > price) vs. a Mac and a Dell as well as dependencies on hit products > like the iPod to drive sales/growth. What I'd like to see analyzed is the dynamics of why so much of the market keeps going to Windows. Perhaps it's "obvious" but nevertheless, if someone could map out what keeps the coffers flowing to PC companies then maybe there's something to see there. I didn't get how the article can praise Apple for the great design, but also suggest the Mac OS X is the loser and unsustainable, and that maybe Apple should make PCs instead. As Scott and Jobs have said, it's control of the complete widget that allows innovation and things to be made to work well, the way Apple makes it. I wouldn't buy an Apple PC running Windows. Other than that, a rather grim article. The Mac is dead. Long live the Mac. Stefano From dez at mac.com Tue Feb 3 11:54:34 2004 From: dez at mac.com (Derek Chesterfield) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: On Feb 3, 2004, at 6:30 pm, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > they hijacked the key command to go to the top of the page (Cmd-up > arrow). I can live with a new shortcut (if there is one) but I > haven't found one yet. The Home key? From tallama at mac.com Tue Feb 3 12:10:26 2004 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <01BBBF82-5685-11D8-9CC0-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> On Feb 3, 2004, at 11:40 AM, Stefano Mori wrote: > On Feb 3, 2004, at 13:34, Suraj Rai wrote: > >> Don't know if I agree on the article but he does make a few >> points...especially about the difference between a BMW and a Ford (in >> price) vs. a Mac and a Dell as well as dependencies on hit products >> like the iPod to drive sales/growth. > > What I'd like to see analyzed is the dynamics of why so much of the > market keeps going to Windows. Perhaps it's "obvious" but > nevertheless, if someone could map out what keeps the coffers flowing > to PC companies then maybe there's something to see there. The main reason Windows wins is an entrenched IT culture that was brought up on Windows, is a little scared of *nix, and posted USENET flames about the Mac. These people have the MCSEs but don't really know anything. Yes, I'm painting with a broad brush, but by and large I think this is why Windows is winning: because it has won since the beginning. It has the momentum. Linux is making inroads because it solves problems that Windows can't. It is more secure, more open, and more performance-inclined (in certain cases). The barrier to entry is mostly in training, and then you're only talking about the few people who interact with the server in an administrative sense. Macintosh is not making inroads because it solves the same problems that Windows does: a UI for the masses, a simple metaphor for the basic workings of a complex machine. It might do these better, but Windows is good enough. OS X also has some of the Linux benefits: security, open standards, etc. But not all of them. The barrier to entry is new hardware, new software, and new training. I don't see how the Mac is going to win in this situation. Competing on quality is great to a point; you will survive, and that's what Apple has done for a long, long time. They make quality machines. That's why an Apple Windows machine would be a failure: you can't compete on quality in that market. But competing on quality is not going to get you market dominance, because someone will compete on price and ubiquity, and they will win on those fronts. This is not to say that Apple is doomed: they will continue making computers, and continue to do what they do. They will not take over the market anytime soon, but they will remain a player in the market. And as long as they do that, people will continue buying from Apple because they want the quality. Others will buy Linux for the scalability. Still others will buy Windows for the ubiquity. But I don't really see any of these players disappearing anytime soon[1]. [1] Except in my happy daydreams, where people realize that quality is worth it, abandon Windows for crap, and move to Mac on the Desktop, Linux on the Server.[2] [2] In my happier daydreams, it's Mac everywhere[3]. [3] And I can get a job doing Mac development. Wouldn't that be nice. Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." From pelorus at mac.com Tue Feb 3 12:18:31 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <22C9D5D7-5686-11D8-88F0-000A95DC1742@mac.com> On 3 Feb 2004, at 13:34, Suraj Rai wrote: > Related to this...the following article on Harvard Business School's > website appeared which says that Mac users total 8 million are likely > to decline year after year. Uh... "There are roughly 25 million Macintosh users in the entire installed base. But in fact the real number of active users is something closer to 8 million, which is a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the real market for any electronic product." I'd like to know where he gets his figures. It reads like an advert for his latest book. M From scott at maxify.com Tue Feb 3 12:21:51 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Feb 3, 2004, at 5:34 AM, Suraj Rai wrote: > Related to this...the following article on Harvard Business School's > website appeared which says that Mac users total 8 million are likely > to decline year after year. > > http://workingknowledge.hbs.edu/item.jhtml?id=3877&t=marketing > > Don't know if I agree on the article but he does make a few > points...especially about the difference between a BMW and a Ford (in > price) vs. a Mac and a Dell as well as dependencies on hit products > like the iPod to drive sales/growth. The numbers in this article just don't make sense. He continually makes the point that Apple is just breaking even with the Macintosh business, yet (unless I missed something) seems to completely ignore the fact that they've been breaking even in the middle of a recession -- in a market where everyone else has been losing massive amounts of money on their respective computer businesses. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From ian at SKYLIST.net Tue Feb 3 12:23:49 2004 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: On Feb 3, 2004, at 1:54 PM, Derek Chesterfield wrote: > > On Feb 3, 2004, at 6:30 pm, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > >> they hijacked the key command to go to the top of the page (Cmd-up >> arrow). I can live with a new shortcut (if there is one) but I >> haven't found one yet. > > The Home key? That does appear to work - it didn't occur to me cause it's such a pain to hit on my powerbook's keyboard. Command-up was much easier. Personally, I liked the other suggestion of command-shift-up & down for moving between tabs and leaving the command-up the way it is. :) Ian From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Feb 3 12:59:15 2004 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: On Feb 3, 2004, at 1:23 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > > That does appear to work - it didn't occur to me cause it's such a > pain to hit on my powerbook's keyboard. Command-up was much easier. > Personally, I liked the other suggestion of command-shift-up & down > for moving between tabs and leaving the command-up the way it is. :) I have not looked or downloaded it yet, but can't you hack the NIB file? Chad From ian at SKYLIST.net Tue Feb 3 12:26:16 2004 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: <22C9D5D7-5686-11D8-88F0-000A95DC1742@mac.com> References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <22C9D5D7-5686-11D8-88F0-000A95DC1742@mac.com> Message-ID: <38182DF0-5687-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> On Feb 3, 2004, at 2:18 PM, Matt wrote: > > On 3 Feb 2004, at 13:34, Suraj Rai wrote: > >> Related to this...the following article on Harvard Business School's >> website appeared which says that Mac users total 8 million are likely >> to decline year after year. > Uh... > > "There are roughly 25 million Macintosh users in the entire installed > base. But in fact the real number of active users is something closer > to 8 million, which is a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the real market > for any electronic product." Didn't they claim 10 million OS X users at the last keynote? Ian From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Feb 3 14:15:50 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: at 2004-02-03, 2:23 PM -0600, they whom i call Ian Ragsdale wrote: >>The Home key? > >That does appear to work - it didn't occur to me cause it's such a >pain to hit on my powerbook's keyboard. Command-up was much easier. on a Pismo, at least, fn-up/down = home/end -- steve harley From fabienlroy at mac.com Tue Feb 3 14:22:52 2004 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Fwd: Returned mail: see transcript for details Message-ID: <8190128C-5697-11D8-A2F6-000393658196@mac.com> Sick and tired of RoadRunner blacklisting the .mac server again. It says that only the ISP/Mail provider, mac.com in that particular case, can fix the problem. I have no way to contact mac.com to have this stupid thing fixed again. Thanks Fabien Begin forwarded message: > From: Mail Delivery Subsystem > Date: February 3, 2004 1:39:25 PM PST > To: fabienlroy@mac.com > Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > The original message was received at Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:39:21 -0800 > (PST) > from smtpin08-en2 [10.13.10.153] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > (reason: 550 5.7.1 Mail Refused - 17.250.248 - See > http://security.rr.com/mail_blocks.htm#security - 20040203) > > (reason: 550 5.7.1 Mail Refused - 17.250.248 - See > http://security.rr.com/mail_blocks.htm#security - 20040203) > > (reason: 550 5.7.1 Mail Refused - 17.250.248 - See > http://security.rr.com/mail_blocks.htm#security - 20040203) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > ... while talking to txmx-2.texas.rr.com.: >>>> MAIL From: > <<< 550 5.7.1 Mail Refused - 17.250.248 - See > http://security.rr.com/mail_blocks.htm#security - 20040203 > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > ... while talking to nycmx02.mgw.rr.com.: >>>> MAIL From: > <<< 550 5.7.1 Mail Refused - 17.250.248 - See > http://security.rr.com/mail_blocks.htm#security - 20040203 > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > Reporting-MTA: dns; smtpout.mac.com > Received-From-MTA: DNS; smtpin08-en2 > Arrival-Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:39:21 -0800 (PST) > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; cerie@austin.rr.com > Action: failed > Status: 5.7.1 > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.7.1 Mail Refused - 17.250.248 - See > http://security.rr.com/mail_blocks.htm#security - 20040203 > Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:39:22 -0800 (PST) > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; alanroy@nyc.rr.com > Action: failed > Status: 5.7.1 > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.7.1 Mail Refused - 17.250.248 - See > http://security.rr.com/mail_blocks.htm#security - 20040203 > Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:39:25 -0800 (PST) > > Final-Recipient: RFC822; mroy@nyc.rr.com > Action: failed > Status: 5.7.1 > Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.7.1 Mail Refused - 17.250.248 - See > http://security.rr.com/mail_blocks.htm#security - 20040203 > Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:39:25 -0800 (PST) > From ian at SKYLIST.net Tue Feb 3 14:23:15 2004 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: <8F82450D-5697-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> On Feb 3, 2004, at 4:15 PM, steve harley wrote: > at 2004-02-03, 2:23 PM -0600, they whom i call Ian Ragsdale wrote: >>> The Home key? >> >> That does appear to work - it didn't occur to me cause it's such a >> pain to hit on my powerbook's keyboard. Command-up was much easier. > > on a Pismo, at least, fn-up/down = home/end Same on my TiBook, but it's a small key way on the other side of control - my pinky doesn't like to bend that way. :) Ian From lomion at mac.com Tue Feb 3 15:23:36 2004 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details In-Reply-To: <8190128C-5697-11D8-A2F6-000393658196@mac.com> References: <8190128C-5697-11D8-A2F6-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: On Feb 3, 2004, at 5:22 PM, Fabien Roy wrote: > Sick and tired of RoadRunner blacklisting the .mac server again. > > It says that only the ISP/Mail provider, mac.com in that particular > case, can fix the problem. > I have no way to contact mac.com to have this stupid thing fixed again. > Well I sent them a feedback to support. I am trying to track down a person there though. I will let you know if I find someone. --Larry From kremels at kreme.com Tue Feb 3 15:30:51 2004 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <00D8A54C-56A1-11D8-A69F-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 03 Feb 2004, at 13:21, Scott Stevenson wrote: > He continually makes the point that Apple is just breaking even with > the Macintosh business, yet (unless I missed something) seems to > completely ignore the fact that they've been breaking even in the > middle of a recession -- in a market where everyone else has been > losing massive amounts of money on their respective computer > businesses. You are forgetting the first rule of Computer Pundit Wanker: "Everything one says about Apple COmputers must be negative. Failure to abide by this rule results in immediate suspension of your Computer Pundit Wanker license and you will have to get a REAL job." -- The other cats just think he's a tosser. --Neil Gaiman From kremels at kreme.com Tue Feb 3 15:38:15 2004 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details In-Reply-To: <8190128C-5697-11D8-A2F6-000393658196@mac.com> References: <8190128C-5697-11D8-A2F6-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <09EFBA02-56A2-11D8-A69F-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 03 Feb 2004, at 15:22, Fabien Roy wrote: > Sick and tired of RoadRunner blacklisting the .mac server again. > > It says that only the ISP/Mail provider, mac.com in that particular > case, can fix the problem. > I have no way to contact mac.com to have this stupid thing fixed again. RoadRunner seems to get their mail admins by hiring children of the short busses. Or possibly homeless winos who are too drunk to read a CRT, much less admin a mailserver. Your best bet everytime this happens is to make sure and let the people you are mailing know that their ISP is blocking their mail and that no other national ISP is as retraded as rr.com. THeir bozonic web page implies that this is a IP based block, so they are once again blocking the mac.com mailservers. Not a damn thing you can do about it, and not a damn thing Apple can do about it because shooting rr admins is still illegal. -- "Let's get back to syntax of procmail and forget the syntax of fools." - Don From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Tue Feb 3 15:42:41 2004 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: <00D8A54C-56A1-11D8-A69F-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <00D8A54C-56A1-11D8-A69F-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <20040203234241.GB2668@Dark-Age.local> On Tue, Feb 03, 2004 at 04:30:51PM -0700, LuKreme wrote: : : You are forgetting the first rule of Computer Pundit Wanker: : : "Everything one says about Apple COmputers must be negative. Failure : to abide by this rule results in immediate suspension of your Computer : Pundit Wanker license and you will have to get a REAL job." Too bad Rush Limbaugh is going down in flames for his illegal drug prescription abuses. For a conservative guy, he was pretty pro-Mac. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From chris at nilzero.com Tue Feb 3 16:00:35 2004 From: chris at nilzero.com (Chris Garaffa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: <00D8A54C-56A1-11D8-A69F-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <00D8A54C-56A1-11D8-A69F-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <2880C6EC-56A5-11D8-9052-000393D00E20@nilzero.com> On Feb 3, 2004, at 6:30 PM, LuKreme wrote: > You are forgetting the first rule of Computer Pundit Wanker: > > "Everything one says about Apple COmputers must be negative. Failure > to abide by this rule results in immediate suspension of your Computer > Pundit Wanker license and you will have to get a REAL job." Doesn't rule 1a say "Following any announcement, mention that MAC is going to die soon." I've always wondered what these people have against such an integral part of the OSI. -- Chris Garaffa chris@nilzero.com http://moondrop.nilzero.com From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Feb 3 15:13:45 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: <8F82450D-5697-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <8F82450D-5697-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: at 2004-02-03, 4:23 PM -0600, they whom i call Ian Ragsdale wrote: >>on a Pismo, at least, fn-up/down = home/end > >Same on my TiBook, but it's a small key way on the other side of >control - my pinky doesn't like to bend that way. :) ah -- your TiBook also has a command key on the right, which the Pismo does not -- steve harley From rogerhoward at mac.com Tue Feb 3 18:36:27 2004 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <8F82450D-5697-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: On Feb 3, 2004, at 3:13 PM, steve harley wrote: > at 2004-02-03, 4:23 PM -0600, they whom i call Ian Ragsdale wrote: >>> on a Pismo, at least, fn-up/down = home/end >> >> Same on my TiBook, but it's a small key way on the other side of >> control - my pinky doesn't like to bend that way. :) > > ah -- your TiBook also has a command key on the right, which > the Pismo does not Not mine... left side has function, control, option, and command... right side only has option... It took a while, but I've gotten used to the fn key modifiers, especially for paging and home/end... just in time to retire the old girl -R From lists at mk27.com Tue Feb 3 19:27:05 2004 From: lists at mk27.com (Todd R. Warfel) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Syncing iTunes Libraries Message-ID: <019C8D08-56C2-11D8-B893-000A95DF22C2@mk27.com> Is there a way to sync iTunes libraries between different machines? I have a workstation (my wife's) and a PowerBook (mine) that I want to sync the libraries between. Not necessarily the play lists, but the music that's in the libraries. One of the problems we have is that we both purchase music, using the same .Mac account, but on different machines. So, when she purchases music, it's a pain for me to find it and move it to my PowerBook. Likewise, when I purchase music, it's difficult for me to move it to her machine. Cheers! Todd R. Warfel User Experience Architect MessageFirst | making products easier to use -------------------------------------- Contact Info voice: (607) 339-9640 email: twarfel@messagefirst.com web: www.messagefirst.com aim: twarfel@mac.com -------------------------------------- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. From surajrai at mac.com Tue Feb 3 20:28:57 2004 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj K. Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <1075868937.40207509dc4f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> Quoting Scott Stevenson : > > On Feb 3, 2004, at 5:34 AM, Suraj Rai wrote: > > > Related to this...the following article on Harvard Business School's > > website appeared which says that Mac users total 8 million are likely > > to decline year after year. > > > > http://workingknowledge.hbs.edu/item.jhtml?id=3877&t=marketing > > > > Don't know if I agree on the article but he does make a few > > points...especially about the difference between a BMW and a Ford (in > > price) vs. a Mac and a Dell as well as dependencies on hit products > > like the iPod to drive sales/growth. > > The numbers in this article just don't make sense. > > He continually makes the point that Apple is just breaking even with > the Macintosh business, yet (unless I missed something) seems to > completely ignore the fact that they've been breaking even in the > middle of a recession -- in a market where everyone else has been > losing massive amounts of money on their respective computer > businesses. I believe what he is trying to say is that in order for Apple to survive, it can no longer rely solely on its computer based products such as the Mac or Mac OS X. Apple needs hit products like the iPod or whatever the next thing is in order to continue funding R&D for its Macintosh based products. Do you think that Apple would have mady much profit last year if it had not been for the iPod? S.r. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From ian at SKYLIST.net Tue Feb 3 20:40:23 2004 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: <1075868937.40207509dc4f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <1075868937.40207509dc4f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3E8BDCAA-56CC-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> On Feb 3, 2004, at 10:28 PM, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > I believe what he is trying to say is that in order for Apple to > survive, it can > no longer rely solely on its computer based products such as the Mac > or Mac OS > X. Apple needs hit products like the iPod or whatever the next thing > is in > order to continue funding R&D for its Macintosh based products. Do > you think > that Apple would have mady much profit last year if it had not been > for the > iPod? I'm not so sure I believe that Apple can't survive on it's Mac business alone. Even if it's market share is slowly dropping, everywhere I go I see new people coming to the mac, and I believe that the total number of Mac users is growing. If Apple has survived this long on it's current installed base, they should be able to stay profitable with it getting larger. Even if it isn't as an attractive a market as Windows for some developers, it continues to be an attractive platform for developers (we clearly have far more now than we did before OS X) so I'm not worried about the "ecosystem" drying up. In addition, the inroads that Linux is making are also good for Apple - it is far easier to port most programs from Linux to OS X than from Windows to OS X, so I think linux getting developer support is good for OS X as well. Ian From scott at maxify.com Tue Feb 3 21:14:47 2004 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Units Sold vs. Market Share (Re: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore....) In-Reply-To: <1075868937.40207509dc4f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <1075868937.40207509dc4f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <0D604A7F-56D1-11D8-9F27-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Feb 3, 2004, at 8:28 PM, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > I believe what he is trying to say is that in order for Apple to > survive, it can > no longer rely solely on its computer based products such as the Mac > or Mac OS X. That may or not may not be, but he doesn't present any evidence to support either side. Saying that computers sales are flat in a recession doesn't say much about Apple itself. The fact Apple has been able to maintain its computer business speaks volumes. I think people forget how hard computer sales have been hit across the board, and some have just pulled out of the business altogether. The market share issue also seems a bit paradoxical. In a completely non-scientific way, It really seems like the number of people acquiring and using Macs is increasing. And from a purely objective standpoint, we have evidence of developers adding Mac OS X to their roster and increasing sales as a result. I'm curious if this global market share includes things that aren't really part of Apple's potential market, such as data entry terminals, point of sale and the like. I believe the explosion of Final Cut Pro in video editing says a lot about target markets. Statistics need context. I think it may be that the total number of limited or single use computers is exploding across the globe, but this has no material impact on Apple's business of selling G5s and iMacs with a very wide range of functionality. Talking in terms of bottom line, Apple sold 12% more computers in the past quarter than a year ago. In the fourth quarter of last year, Mac sales were up 7%. I don't claim to have all the data, but the simple fact is Apple is selling *significantly* more Macs now than it was a year ago. I think that reflects the common sense that Mac OS X is grabbing a lot of attention from developers, users and administrators. And Mac users will pay for good software! And if you figure Apple sells an rough average of 700k-800k Macs every three months, the suggestion that there are only 8 million active users is insanity. It would mean every single Mac is being replaced in less than three years, which is just not the case. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Tue Feb 3 22:06:19 2004 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <8F82450D-5697-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: <20040204060619.GB7526@Dark-Age.local> On Tue, Feb 03, 2004 at 06:36:27PM -0800, Roger Howard wrote: : On Feb 3, 2004, at 3:13 PM, steve harley wrote: : > : >ah -- your TiBook also has a command key on the right, which : >the Pismo does not : : Not mine... left side has function, control, option, and command... : right side only has option... Yeah, it's kind of whacked. On Lombard (the model before Pismo), there are both Command and Option/Alt keys on both sides of the Spacebar key. And on TiBooks, the right Option/Alt key is replaced with the useless Enter key (I use uControl to remap it back to Option/Alt, and it works well enough with most software). -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From dave at difference.com.au Tue Feb 3 22:26:27 2004 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: <2880C6EC-56A5-11D8-9052-000393D00E20@nilzero.com> References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <00D8A54C-56A1-11D8-A69F-000A95935598@kreme.com> <2880C6EC-56A5-11D8-9052-000393D00E20@nilzero.com> Message-ID: There are a few interesting points in the HBS article. But there are a few ones skipped over, as well. Its true Apple is in a difficult position with having to spend as much as MS to develop an operating system, but amortising it over a smaller base. On the one hand, its not entirely clear that Apple does have to spend the same amount. They probably have been recently, but OS X has been in a difficult introductory phase and probably spending more than it will over its life. They should be reaping some significant cost benefits from using a lot of open source software, particularly to deal with technically difficult areas like implementing IPv6. And they should have some cost benefits from having to support a smaller range of hardware. I think he is not too crazy on the 'Apple should go after the consumer PC market' strategy. But he is explicitly advocating a strategy that he acknowledges failed when Sony tried it (make consumer PCs with good industrial design running Windows). An Apple OS on PC hardware that runs Windows apps ( I note that this guy, at least, is smart enough to not say 'imminent death of Apple predicted' - quite the opposite. He says Apple, pursueing a bad strategy with little growth, will still linger on for many years. Which is true. And its true that Apple needs to move into gradual growth, rather than relying on finding new hit consumer products. The big difference between him, and Apple management (and me) is whether Apple can ever get reliable long term growth within the computer industry. I think its a few years to tell whether OS X (and appropriate accompanying hardware lines) can make that happen. I think he is a little harsh on the synergy between Apple and Pixar as far as Jobs goes. I think it has helped both, but particularly Apple, because its meant that Jobs at least has a very very good idea of what Mac OS X needs to do to make Apple compelling to one large important successful company in their target creative market. I think that has really showed, and has probably helped erode some of Apples Not Invented Here syndrome. Cheers David From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Tue Feb 3 22:39:42 2004 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <00D8A54C-56A1-11D8-A69F-000A95935598@kreme.com> <2880C6EC-56A5-11D8-9052-000393D00E20@nilzero.com> Message-ID: <20040204063942.GA8101@Dark-Age.local> On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 02:26:27PM +0800, David Cake wrote: : : Its true Apple is in a difficult position with having to : spend as much as MS to develop an operating system, but amortising it : over a smaller base. Apple isn't spending as much money on OS X as M$ is spending on Longhorn, at least according to Bill "many moon shots" Gates: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25878.html -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From tallama at mac.com Tue Feb 3 22:48:09 2004 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: <20040204060619.GB7526@Dark-Age.local> References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <8F82450D-5697-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <20040204060619.GB7526@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <17FD6C28-56DE-11D8-B67E-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> On Feb 3, 2004, at 10:06 PM, Eugene Lee wrote: > On Tue, Feb 03, 2004 at 06:36:27PM -0800, Roger Howard wrote: > : On Feb 3, 2004, at 3:13 PM, steve harley wrote: > : > > : >ah -- your TiBook also has a command key on the right, which > : >the Pismo does not > : > : Not mine... left side has function, control, option, and command... > : right side only has option... > > Yeah, it's kind of whacked. On Lombard (the model before Pismo), there > are both Command and Option/Alt keys on both sides of the Spacebar key. > And on TiBooks, the right Option/Alt key is replaced with the useless > Enter key (I use uControl to remap it back to Option/Alt, and it works > well enough with most software). My Lombard has Enter and Option on the right. On the left is Fn, Control, Option, and Apple[1]. [1] Yes, the Apple Key. Not Command, Dammit. I just got used to not saying 'Open Apple' Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." From joar at joar.com Tue Feb 3 22:54:43 2004 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: FYI: Safari 1.2 and S/MIME certificates Message-ID: <02CD44AB-56DF-11D8-B222-000393D4AB70@joar.com> For those of you using S/MIME certificates to sign and / or encrypt messages in Apple Mail: With the 1.2 updater Safari caught up with Mozilla when it comes to being able to handle the download of email certificates from Thawte. If Safari is your default browser, you no longer need to fire up Mozilla to manage your certificates. Safari is actually not just "catching up", as it makes the process much easier than it used to be - it automatically imports the certificate into your Keychain. No more manual export / import, as was the case with Mozilla. j o a r From gerard_iglesias at mac.com Wed Feb 4 00:58:08 2004 From: gerard_iglesias at mac.com (Gerard Iglesias) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <00D8A54C-56A1-11D8-A69F-000A95935598@kreme.com> <2880C6EC-56A5-11D8-9052-000393D00E20@nilzero.com> Message-ID: <40F40278-56F0-11D8-8EB7-0003930ECB56@mac.com> Le 4 f?vr. 2004, ? 07:26, David Cake a ?crit : > On the one hand, its not entirely clear that Apple does have to spend > the same amount. They probably have been recently, but OS X has been > in a difficult introductory phase and probably spending more than it > will over its life. They should be reaping some significant cost > benefits from using a lot of open source software, particularly to > deal with technically difficult areas like implementing IPv6. And they > should have some cost benefits from having to support a smaller range > of hardware. Good point > I think he is not too crazy on the 'Apple should go after the > consumer PC market' strategy. But he is explicitly advocating a > strategy that he acknowledges failed when Sony tried it (make consumer > PCs with good industrial design running Windows). An Apple OS on PC > hardware that runs Windows apps ( SGI failed also There is no way to make an attractive product on the PC market. > The big difference between him, and Apple management (and me) is > whether Apple can ever get reliable long term growth within the > computer industry. Interesting to note that, at a time where people were saying that the PC were dead, SJ brought the digital hub... That was a very smart move to make computer useful for the rest of them ;) > I think he is a little harsh on the synergy between Apple and Pixar > as far as Jobs goes. I think it has helped both, but particularly > Apple, because its meant that Jobs at least has a very very good idea > of what Mac OS X needs to do to make Apple compelling to one large > important successful company in their target creative market. I think > that has really showed, and has probably helped erode some of Apples > Not Invented Here syndrome. We have to remind a simple thing, Apple is an innovative company, and like in the movie market people that make bla-bla-bla about the movie are not the ones that make the movie. We don't know what Apple is making in their lab, we can't know... What this guy did to build a successful company ? ;) In French we say : 'Les conseillers ne sont pas les payeurs' : 'The advisors are not the payments' Regards Gerard From appledev at xs4all.nl Wed Feb 4 02:03:18 2004 From: appledev at xs4all.nl (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_v_Amerongen?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Mail message - Alternative mime ( 'Apple-[' ) Message-ID: <5B4EEE4E-56F9-11D8-A91B-0003937C32E4@xs4all.nl> Hello How do I get View/Message/ Alternative -text and the others to work? Am I the only one with this problem, or...? If I receive a message with more then one kind of mime layout like HTML, Enriched text or just plain text how can I switch between them. I was thinking that Apple-] was the command to switch between these different layouts. But they always greyed out. Someone has a idea or suggestion? Thanks R From aa4lr at mac.com Wed Feb 4 04:42:19 2004 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: a lead on the MyDoom case In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91F2CA72-570F-11D8-B3C4-000A95CC9FB4@mac.com> On Feb 3, 2004, at 1:33 AM, Robert Burns wrote: > > Well that should narrow it down. The crime profiler tells us to find > someone with a knowledge of computer programming whose upset with SCO. Yeah, that really narrows it down. I've yet to meet a computer programmer who ISN'T upset at SCO.... Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From aa4lr at mac.com Wed Feb 4 04:58:12 2004 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: <3E8BDCAA-56CC-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <1075868937.40207509dc4f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> <3E8BDCAA-56CC-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: On Feb 3, 2004, at 11:40 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > I'm not so sure I believe that Apple can't survive on it's Mac > business alone. Even if it's market share is slowly dropping, > everywhere I go I see new people coming to the mac, and I believe that > the total number of Mac users is growing. There have to be defections somewhere. Apple's been quoting a 25 million figure for some time now - several years - despite having a strong "switch" campaign. That's sorta depressing. Even so, 25 million people is a pretty big market. It's only small in comparison with the larger Windows market. > If Apple has survived this long on it's current installed base, they > should be able to stay profitable with it getting larger. Even if it > isn't as an attractive a market as Windows for some developers, it > continues to be an attractive platform for developers (we clearly have > far more now than we did before OS X) so I'm not worried about the > "ecosystem" drying up. I do. I look at how many Mac publications have dried up and gone. That means there's not sufficient advertisement dollars to fuel the publications. There are dozens and dozens of Windows technical magazines. The Mac has one: MacTech, and it is looking thinner and thinner these days. Microsoft does have this pegged -- developers are key. Without developers, the ecosystem dries up. > In addition, the inroads that Linux is making are also good for > Apple - it is far easier to port most programs from Linux to OS X than > from Windows to OS X, so I think linux getting developer support is > good for OS X as well. The other aspect of Linux is that it presents an alternative to Windows. Once institutions start considering alternative systems, the door is opened for MacOS X. That, and the natural synergy between MacOS X, Linux and other Unix variants. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Wed Feb 4 07:46:28 2004 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: iCell In-Reply-To: References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <1075868937.40207509dc4f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> <3E8BDCAA-56CC-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: <4BE83E85-5729-11D8-81C7-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> I was saying to Zac on iChat that I could duct tape to stick this thing to my iPod 15GB and it will still be smaller than the iPod 40GB. So it's clear that at this point an iPod with cell phone capabilities will be both doable and make a lot of sense, marketing wise. I bet that most people with iPods will love to be able to ditch their cells in favor of having all in the iPod. I know I would buy one in a snap. And when you think iPod Mini, well, even more. The only problem will probably be battery life, but I am not sure about that anymore. Perhaps at the end of the year? :-) j. From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Feb 4 09:18:16 2004 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Syncing iTunes Libraries In-Reply-To: <019C8D08-56C2-11D8-B893-000A95DF22C2@mk27.com> References: <019C8D08-56C2-11D8-B893-000A95DF22C2@mk27.com> Message-ID: at 2004-02-03, 10:27 PM -0500, they whom i call Todd R. Warfel wrote: >Is there a way to sync iTunes libraries between different machines? >I have a workstation (my wife's) and a PowerBook (mine) that I want >to sync the libraries between. Not necessarily the play lists, but >the music that's in the libraries. nothing built-in, but i can think of fairly simple strategies.. for example, label all track files on machine A blue, all on B red.. then do a two-way file sync (using a tool that preserves label metadata), then sort by label and select all red tracks on machine A and add them to library, vice versa.. repeat when needed.. could be scripted if you can count on a network connection between the machines, you could also designate one machine the master and have the other machine mount the master library folder and add all new tracks there -- the files will be the same but the playlist info, etc. will be separate -- steve harley From lists at drunkenbatman.com Wed Feb 4 09:48:44 2004 From: lists at drunkenbatman.com (db) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <1075868937.40207509dc4f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> <3E8BDCAA-56CC-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: <20040204124844324898.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:58:12 -0500, Bill Coleman wrote: > I do. I look at how many Mac publications have dried up and gone. > That means there's not sufficient advertisement dollars to fuel the > publications. There are dozens and dozens of Windows technical > magazines. The Mac has one: MacTech, and it is looking thinner and > thinner these days. Not disagreeing with you, as it hadn't really hit home until a new mac user started asking about magazines and the like they could subscribe to for reviews and tips... and there was basically Mac Home or something. It pretty much came down to "here is a list of sites". But the PC world has also been hit by this, especially in recent years. Many of the mags I subscribe to in the PC world have thinned way down over the last 2 years, some of them drastically. From lists at drunkenbatman.com Wed Feb 4 09:51:24 2004 From: lists at drunkenbatman.com (db) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: <20040204060619.GB7526@Dark-Age.local> References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <8F82450D-5697-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <20040204060619.GB7526@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <20040204125124008098.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:06:19 -0600, Eugene Lee wrote: > Yeah, it's kind of whacked. On Lombard (the model before Pismo), there > are both Command and Option/Alt keys on both sides of the Spacebar key. Was I the only one who was disappointed that Apple didnt try to take advantage of the space on the 17" model to have a more full-featured keyboard? There's enough area there to have a numeric keypad, full function keys, etc. From cwilbur at mac.com Wed Feb 4 10:10:58 2004 From: cwilbur at mac.com (Charlton Wilbur) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: <20040204125124008098.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <8F82450D-5697-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <20040204060619.GB7526@Dark-Age.local> <20040204125124008098.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: <7B885B64-573D-11D8-B17F-000A9573CF20@mac.com> On Feb 4, 2004, at 12:51 PM, db wrote: > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:06:19 -0600, Eugene Lee wrote: >> Yeah, it's kind of whacked. On Lombard (the model before Pismo), >> there >> are both Command and Option/Alt keys on both sides of the Spacebar >> key. > > Was I the only one who was disappointed that Apple didnt try to take > advantage of the space on the 17" model to have a more full-featured > keyboard? There's enough area there to have a numeric keypad, full > function keys, etc. The flip side of this is that adding a numeric keypad on the right side of the keyboard on the 17" means that touch-typists will have their hands constantly-off center. I expect that the people at Apple took this into account in making the decision -- such an off-centered keyboard would make the computer nearly impossible to use on one's lap, and awkward to use most other places. Charlton -- Charlton Wilbur cwilbur@chromatico.net cwilbur@mac.com From lists at drunkenbatman.com Wed Feb 4 10:49:54 2004 From: lists at drunkenbatman.com (db) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: <7B885B64-573D-11D8-B17F-000A9573CF20@mac.com> References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <8F82450D-5697-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <20040204060619.GB7526@Dark-Age.local> <20040204125124008098.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <7B885B64-573D-11D8-B17F-000A9573CF20@mac.com> Message-ID: <20040204134954821756.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:10:58 -0500, Charlton Wilbur wrote: > The flip side of this is that adding a numeric keypad on the right > side of the keyboard on the 17" means that touch-typists will have > their hands constantly-off center. I expect that the people at Apple > took this into account in making the decision -- such an off-centered > keyboard would make the computer nearly impossible to use on one's > lap, and awkward to use most other places. Yeah, that's not a bad point regarding the numeric keypad. I'd assumed it was to save money by using the same keyboard throughout their product line. We could still have F1's and the like, but I get your point. Just seems as though they have an opportunity there to do away with a bit of function key madness or something. One of the most frustrating parts of my day is switching between different keyboards, and the extra space seems to be going to waste. :( From zbir at urbanape.com Wed Feb 4 10:57:20 2004 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: <20040204134954821756.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <8F82450D-5697-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <20040204060619.GB7526@Dark-Age.local> <20040204125124008098.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <7B885B64-573D-11D8-B17F-000A9573CF20@mac.com> <20040204134954821756.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: On Feb 4, 2004, at 1:49 PM, db wrote: > Just seems as though they have an opportunity there to do away with a > bit of function key madness or something. One of the most frustrating > parts of my day is switching between different keyboards, and the > extra space seems to be going to waste. :( I use the lower left hand side of my keyboard as a hot plate to keep my coffee warm... Zac From pelorus at mac.com Wed Feb 4 10:58:33 2004 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration In-Reply-To: <20040204124844324898.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <1075868937.40207509dc4f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> <3E8BDCAA-56CC-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <20040204124844324898.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: <21261C6A-5744-11D8-A6EF-000A95DC1742@mac.com> On 4 Feb 2004, at 17:48, db wrote: > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:58:12 -0500, Bill Coleman wrote: >> I do. I look at how many Mac publications have dried up and gone. > But the PC world has also been hit by this, especially in recent > years. Many of the mags I subscribe to in the PC world have thinned > way down over the last 2 years, some of them drastically. I'd have to agree with this. there are a lot of "noob" magazines which are PC only but a lot of the die-hard magazines seem to have doubled their advertising space and, as a result, reduced their content. M USPCA Charity Gala Night: http://www.nimug.org/ A night of fine dining, dancing and entertainment! You can email uspca@nimug.org for more information. For ticket sales please ring their National Helpline on 02890 814242. From bmw at mxtreme.com Wed Feb 4 11:06:55 2004 From: bmw at mxtreme.com (Bruce M. Walker) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <8F82450D-5697-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <20040204060619.GB7526@Dark-Age.local> <20040204125124008098.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <7B885B64-573D-11D8-B17F-000A9573CF20@mac.com> <20040204134954821756.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: <1075921615.402142cf21fb9@mail.borderware.com> Quoting Zachery Bir : > > I use the lower left hand side of my keyboard as a hot plate to keep my > coffee warm... Oooooohhhh ... I hope you bought the Industrial Strength AppleCare package. :-) -bmw From zbir at urbanape.com Wed Feb 4 11:11:18 2004 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: <1075921615.402142cf21fb9@mail.borderware.com> References: <4FC88F8A-5653-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <159CE8E0-5655-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <8F82450D-5697-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <20040204060619.GB7526@Dark-Age.local> <20040204125124008098.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <7B885B64-573D-11D8-B17F-000A9573CF20@mac.com> <20040204134954821756.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <1075921615.402142cf21fb9@mail.borderware.com> Message-ID: On Feb 4, 2004, at 2:06 PM, Bruce M. Walker wrote: > Quoting Zachery Bir : >> >> I use the lower left hand side of my keyboard as a hot plate to keep >> my >> coffee warm... > > Oooooohhhh ... I hope you bought the Industrial Strength AppleCare > package. :-) Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ;) Zac From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Wed Feb 4 11:26:33 2004 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: <7B885B64-573D-11D8-B17F-000A9573CF20@mac.com> References: <12E3D07D-5677-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <8F82450D-5697-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <20040204060619.GB7526@Dark-Age.local> <20040204125124008098.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <7B885B64-573D-11D8-B17F-000A9573CF20@mac.com> Message-ID: <20040204192633.GB9760@Dark-Age.local> On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 01:10:58PM -0500, Charlton Wilbur wrote: : On Feb 4, 2004, at 12:51 PM, db wrote: : > : >Was I the only one who was disappointed that Apple didnt try to take : >advantage of the space on the 17" model to have a more full-featured : >keyboard? There's enough area there to have a numeric keypad, full : >function keys, etc. : : The flip side of this is that adding a numeric keypad on the right side : of the keyboard on the 17" means that touch-typists will have their : hands constantly-off center. I expect that the people at Apple took : this into account in making the decision -- such an off-centered : keyboard would make the computer nearly impossible to use on one's lap, : and awkward to use most other places. Practically, I doubt this. Many places with computers have their keyboards physically centered with their monitors, which means that the "center" of the home row on the keyboard itself (i.e. the G-H keys) are often off-center to the left. This is true with all notebook keyboards today. I think the main reason for not having a full-sized keyboard on the 17" AlBook is more aesthetics and less ergonomics. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From siracusa at mindspring.com Wed Feb 4 11:34:39 2004 From: siracusa at mindspring.com (John Siracusa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Neato keen OW5 feature. In-Reply-To: <20040204192633.GB9760@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: On 2/4/04 2:26 PM, Eugene Lee wrote: > Practically, I doubt this. Many places with computers have their > keyboards physically centered with their monitors, which means that the > "center" of the home row on the keyboard itself (i.e. the G-H keys) are > often off-center to the left. This is true with all notebook keyboards > today. I think the main reason for not having a full-sized keyboard on > the 17" AlBook is more aesthetics and less ergonomics. It was almost certainly a cost decision, IMO. Using the same (or nearly the same) keyboard on every Apple laptop saves Apple money. -John From johannes at connected.ch Wed Feb 4 11:44:28 2004 From: johannes at connected.ch (Johannes Vetsch) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Is this new and exclusive to OW or... Message-ID: <8B3FDF3D-574A-11D8-8B7D-000393764C26@connected.ch> ... did I miss something? Those popup windows for scrollbar input fields, this is already worth the update (at least for me :-) johannes From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Wed Feb 4 11:48:47 2004 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Milk the Mac (was Re: Case Study: What Lawrence Livermore National learned about Mac integration) In-Reply-To: References: <21EF786C-55E2-11D8-8771-003065C4548E@mac.com> <999E8115-5686-11D8-B9D1-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <1075868937.40207509dc4f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> <3E8BDCAA-56CC-11D8-A07D-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: <25F751E4-574B-11D8-9659-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> "If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it's worth--and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago." - Steve Jobs interview in Forbes, 1996 Many of you probably remember this quote, but I'd like to point out that it succinctly describes the strategy advocated in the recent HBS interview. So anyone who was paying attention in 1996 shouldn't be surprised by what's happening with the iPod now. On another note, I also think the reason that Apple is the leader in digital music tech is because the iMac introduced a CD/DVD combo before CD/CD-RW. Turns out everyone wanted CD-RW because they were more interested in "Rip. Mix. Burn." than watching movies on their computer. That mistake brought digital music to Steve's attention, which in turn gave us iTunes and iPod. Best, -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html From zbir at urbanape.com Wed Feb 4 11:49:03 2004 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:24:58 2005 Subject: Is this new and exclusive to OW or... In-Reply-To: <8B3FDF3D-574A-11D8-8B7D-000393764C26@connected.ch> References: <8B3FDF3D-574A-11D8-8B7D-000393764C26@connected.ch> Message-ID: <2F2319BA-574B-11D8-BAB8-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Feb 4, 2004, at 2:44 PM, Johannes Vetsch wrote: > ... did I miss something? > > Those popup windows for scrollbar input fields, this is already worth > the update (at least for me :-) Zoomable