From mark at imap-partners.net Sat Nov 1 00:20:01 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:06 2005 Subject: NAT and FTP In-Reply-To: References: <51E73526-0AFB-11D8-8923-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: <717848C8-0B10-11D8-8923-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> On 30 Oct 2003, at 18:38, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > I'm not sure why passive FTP isn't working for you. Neither, sadly, am I, mark. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2373 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/e23527b4/smime.bin From mark at imap-partners.net Sat Nov 1 00:21:31 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: <3D2F94A2-0B0E-11D8-ACFB-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> References: <30D09CEC-0B02-11D8-8B96-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <3D2F94A2-0B0E-11D8-ACFB-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: On 30 Oct 2003, at 20:21, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > Bah. OK, I give up. mark. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2373 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/5195432e/smime.bin From cricket at apple.com Sat Nov 1 00:40:27 2003 From: cricket at apple.com (cricket) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Panther Mail.app Bug? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2BD8BE7E-08A2-11D8-8F2D-000393073BE6@apple.com> POP doesn't support moving messages to the inbox. While the error message is unfortunate, this is why you are getting it. - cricket On Oct 26, 2003, at 2:15 PM, David J. Haines wrote: > I am using Mail.app with a POP3 account. For some reason I can't > move messages from any of the folders I created to the "In" folder. > It gives me an error saying "The destination mailbox does not exist." > I was wondering if anybody else is experiencing this also. I suppose > I'm also asking whether there are any fixes as well. > -----> Software Entomologist ? Mail for Mac OS X http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/mail.html ----------> You cannot compare with the apex of a ferris wheel, nor the nadir of a ditch filled with a coelacanth's droppings. From mark at imap-partners.net Sat Nov 1 00:43:42 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: NAT and FTP In-Reply-To: <4BF9BD70-0C3D-11D8-8491-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <51E73526-0AFB-11D8-8923-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <4BF9BD70-0C3D-11D8-8491-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 1 Nov 2003, at 8:30, Lukreme wrote: > On 31 Oct 2003, at 03:27, mark wrote: >> The G4 gets its internet connection via PPPoE ADSL. NAT is running on >> the G4 (at 10.0.1.1 (internet sharing over airport). The PB is behind >> the NAT. Everything works on the G4 and everything apart from FTP >> works on the PB. > > ftp from the PB to WHERE? > > To the G4: no passiv, use 10.0.1.1 to connect to the G4 Yup I know that, but I would use SSH for this rather than ftp > outside the G4, use PASV. this is the problem. I'm using PASV and its not working. > NB: PASV, in my experience ONLY works if the target ftp is 1) on port > 21 2) supports PASV connections (not all do). > In addition, PASV often simply _does not work_ for no apparent reason. > I have sites I can't connect to using PASV on my home LAN but I can > on my work LAN. Same settings. ftp is b0rked. 90% of the time > though, I can use scp instead. I haven't had any success with any ftp site. One interesting thing I've noticed is that if I set a machine to use PASV then port 20 appears to be closed. Without PASV set, a portscan shows both 20 and 21 open. With PASV set (in sys prefs) only 21 shows up in a portscan. Is this normal ? Anyway, I think I'll give up for now. Too much other shit to deal with right now. Probably try again next time I do a complete reinstall (new machine, new HDD or whatever). I don't use ftp for any of my own stuff, its really just for the odd download where there is no http option. I'll just collect those on the "server" instead. thanks to all who helped, mark. From mark at imap-partners.net Sat Nov 1 00:47:12 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Profont and Mail.app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1 Nov 2003, at 8:26, Lukreme wrote: > How does mail.app determine what a "fixed width" font is? And how to > I force it to use profont? I can't figure this out either. Some non fixed width fonts show up in the popup. Its weird. However, I did manage to get one of my fixed width fonts (Pragmata) to show up (one that previously wasn't showing up obviously) by running this on it: http://homepage.mac.com/mdouma46/dfont/dfont.html needed a logout/in IIRC to get Mail to register the change haven't tried ProFont on it. I don't think it is simply the case that all dfont monospaced fonts show up and no non-dfont fonts show up, but it seems that for some monospaced fonts, it is merely the fact that they are not in dfont format that prevents them from being included. Go figure. mark. From das at doit.wisc.edu Sat Nov 1 01:13:01 2003 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Apple FEE encryption In-Reply-To: <0357E3AC-08A7-11D8-8C35-000393658196@mac.com> References: <0357E3AC-08A7-11D8-8C35-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <89BE63D4-08AD-11D8-A28C-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> I don't know anything about this, but here's the patent itself, which looks good: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser? Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/ srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5159632.WKU.&OS=PN/5159632&RS=PN/5159632 ...but here's something claiming that there is prior art: http://cr.yp.to/patents/us/5159632.html - Dave On Oct 27, 2003, at 11:57 AM, Fabien Roy wrote: > According to this article: > http://www.eweek.com/print_article/0,3048,a=110561,00.asp> >> In an extraordinary move, the National Security Agency has purchased >> a license for Certicom Corp.'s elliptic curve cryptography (ECC) >> system, and plans to make the technology a standard means of securing >> classified communications. > Apple owns FEE. Can Apple enforce it and get a substantial part of the > $25M. > > A google search on those patents: > q=%22elliptic+curve+cryptography%22+patent&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8> > gives a lot of interesting stuff. > > Comments? > > Fabien > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/ad41c1ef/smime.bin From mc at fivebats.com Sat Nov 1 01:20:31 2003 From: mc at fivebats.com (Mike Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Panther Mail looping In-Reply-To: <029958FC-088A-11D8-A3D3-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> (Chad Leigh's message of "Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:29:44 -0700") References: <029958FC-088A-11D8-A3D3-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: "Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc." writes: > Finally, it > just went away again and has not come back... This happened to me last night from 11pm until exactly midnight. I sampled Mail.app during this time and the event loop was swamped with activity. You could bring the CPU usage back down to zero by holding a menu up in the application -- shades of OS9!. This happened on both machines that were running Panther. I filed a bug. I suspect it involves time stamps / time intervals and the switchover to standard time from daylight savings time. -mc -- Mike Coleman Five Bats Incorporated, Portland Oregon From das at doit.wisc.edu Sat Nov 1 01:25:11 2003 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Moving "Applications" folder? In-Reply-To: <636C22F2-0811-11D8-9D32-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <9E143556-041C-11D8-9EAB-000393D46850@nextnet.com> <11916308-042B-11D8-A567-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <1A7AF608-0576-11D8-AADB-000393A335A2@mac.com> <2F9CD8AC-0588-11D8-9FE7-003065AB9B0E@kreme.com> <153A6457-05B9-11D8-8498-000393A335A2@mac.com> <009C742A-0630-11D8-AD96-000A95935598@kreme.com> <5D2A8882-0632-11D8-A813-000A95A4FBF8@umich.edu> <12CFD929-063F-11D8-BC70-000A95935598@kreme.com> <8D819350-064E-11D8-A168-000A95A4FBF8@umich.edu> <8C119C74-0661-11D8-89D4-000A95A4FBF8@umich.edu> <636C22F2-0811-11D8-9D32-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <0A029FE8-08AE-11D8-A28C-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> It would be good to not move these things from their default locations, but a symlink *should* work if you do. Instead of using 'cp -r', you should use 'cp -Rp' or 'ditto'. Of course, if you're just *moving* /Applications, you can just use 'sudo mv /Applications /New/Location/Applications', and then create the link. Again, be advised: things may break, even with the link. - Dave On Oct 26, 2003, at 6:06 PM, Jim Rankin wrote: > I'd like to put the magic, super-special "Applications" folder on a > different partition from the System in Panther (just installed, looks > great btw). How do I trick Panther into looking for it in a non > standard location? Can I just copy it, delete the original, then "ln" > to the new location? I looked in NetInfo manager, but didn't see any > settings for the "special" directories" (I already changed my home > folder to a different partition). > > Also, I notice certain applications are owned by "system" (e.g. System > Preferences). If I "cp -r" these as root to a new location, will Bad > Things happen to me? > > Thanks in advance, > -jimbo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/26bd7fe1/smime.bin From cricket at apple.com Sat Nov 1 01:41:46 2003 From: cricket at apple.com (cricket) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Panther Mail looping In-Reply-To: <029958FC-088A-11D8-A3D3-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <029958FC-088A-11D8-A3D3-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On Oct 27, 2003, at 6:29 AM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >> Look at the Activity Viewer when moving between mailboxes. Look for >> mailboxes that always re-indexes their messages when selected (even >> if you let it complete indexing last time you selected it). Quit Mail >> and use the Finder to "Show Package Contents" on the mailboxes in >> question, and delete the "content_index" file found inside. >> >> I've filed a bug report about this (#3437010), and I know that they >> are working on fixing it. > > Thanks to all who replied. I do not know what happened. There was no > activity in the activity monitor at all, including when switching > mailboxes, all servers were reachable, RAM usage did not jump. I > would quit Mail.app and restart and the problem was still there. > Finally, it just went away again and has not come back... > > Very strange. Yes indeed. This appears to be an obscure bug that only happens between 11PM and midnight on the day that daylight savings ends (if you live in a timezone where this happens). We'll try to fix it before next year. :) - cricket -----> Software Entomologist ? Mail for Mac OS X http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/mail.html ----------> A geyser of fun that goes off at regular intervals. From dlazaro at acm.org Sat Nov 1 01:42:49 2003 From: dlazaro at acm.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_L=E1zaro_Saz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: PDF/X Message-ID: Can somebody enlighten me on what is a PDF/X. I've read about it in some brochures but have not been able to find where this format is specified. Thank you beforehand, David. From kcall at mac.com Sat Nov 1 01:45:28 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin C.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Easily-missed Expose feature In-Reply-To: <65711CE6-08A9-11D8-B7E6-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> References: <3E7D3F24-0840-11D8-952E-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <65711CE6-08A9-11D8-B7E6-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> Message-ID: On Oct 27, 2003, at 10:14 AM, Jes?s D?az wrote: > Not in my experience. The Expos? trick (not command-tab, Tab alone), > works with one-window apps as well. yeah, it's working here too .. i just discovered after starting Expos?, then use cmd ~ to cycle through the apps and their open windows. Hit RETURN to make the selection. K > > j. > > On 27/10/2003, at 18:34, Kevin C. wrote: > >>> Start expose with either F9 or F10, then hit TAB. Expose enters >>> app-windows mode, and cycles to a different app every time you hit >>> tab. (Shift-TAB cycles in the opposite direction.) >> >> seems like the app has to have more than 1 window open for the >> cmd-tab to select the app > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From chad at objectwerks.com Sat Nov 1 01:57:52 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: what's with this "caching" business on Mail.app Panther? Message-ID: Hi I have all my mailboxes set to cache only read messages. (This is with IMAP) Panther mail seems to think that any and all mail that in the past, even ones read 2 years ago using Mulberry, need to now be downloaded and cached. This did not happen on Jaguar. I want it to only cache those messages that I read with Mail.app, not my whole history of mail in my mail folders... Chad From scott at maxify.com Sat Nov 1 02:01:40 2003 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Panther Mail looping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDABC25-08B4-11D8-8F62-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 26, 2003, at 10:22 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > Has anyone else seen this? Panther mail seems to be looping somewhere > all of a sudden. Mail got real sluggish, and a top shows Mail taking > 35-50%+ of the CPU. You can still use it but it is very sluggish and > this is a constant thing, even when it is not doing anything (activity > window blank)... > > If I can narrow it down to something I will file the bug Spin Control (part of dev tools) might be helpful for something like this. You can just leave it running and check back every once in a while to see what apps have been up to. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From chad at objectwerks.com Sat Nov 1 02:18:21 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Panth Mail.app prints using large fonts Message-ID: <39099F9E-08B5-11D8-A3D3-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Panther mail seems to print using some made up setting that is not reflected in the prefs and not at all like Jaguar did. All my mails I print come out with much larger fonts than are specified in the Fonts and Colors prefs and not at all like Jaguar did with the same setting. And I have not found a different print setting. Anyone else seeing this? Chad From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 1 02:35:42 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Classic support... In-Reply-To: <5AB71BA4-08AE-11D8-863F-000A959EEB8E@acm.org> References: <5AB71BA4-08AE-11D8-863F-000A959EEB8E@acm.org> Message-ID: at 20031027, 19:49 +0100, they whom i call David L?zaro Saz wrote: > >I love the cleanness of my HD with only the >standard five folders at the root level. you can use Classic without any folder clutter -- just put it in a disk image.. i did that last spring and never looked back (before that, it was on a separate partition anyway) -- steve harley From oeyvind at mac.com Sat Nov 1 02:52:05 2003 From: oeyvind at mac.com (Tim Chong) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: GD support in Panther's php Message-ID: <3899319C-0954-11D8-9C6B-000393DC80A0@mac.com> Hi, Is there a quick and easy way to add gd support to Panther's php distribution? Thanks, Tim -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/646abcc1/smime.bin From michael-winter at uiowa.edu Sat Nov 1 03:04:19 2003 From: michael-winter at uiowa.edu (Michael Winter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Mossberg loves Mac OS X In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <579A5A78-0954-11D8-8DE4-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> On Monday, October 27, 2003, at 03:59 PM, Greg Titus wrote: >> "Like Microsoft, Apple issues periodic security patches, but they are >> less frequent than the Windows patches -- and some of them are needed >> to repair flaws in the software programs Microsoft writes for the >> Mac." >> >> Huh? >> >> I guess this it's good that he has such great things to say about Mac >> OS X, but I think it hurts Apple's position when the arguments aren't >> technically accurate. > > There have been one or two Internet Explorer security updates via > Software Update in the past. So although "some of them" implies a > larger number, I think this sentence is technically accurate. It is a > bit misleading, though. Yes and no. If you look at the category of security patches (which is what Mossberg is talking about) the IE security updates are a significant percentage. So still not a large number, but a large percentage. -Mike From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Sat Nov 1 03:14:31 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031101110136.GJ1221@Dark-Age.local> On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 01:40:14PM -0700, steve harley wrote: : : at 20031026, 07:11 -0800, they whom i call Mark F. Murphy wrote: : > : >I think it's presumptuous of Proteron to think it's idea for : >switching users is a unique idea.... because IT IS NOT. : : first, it's not "switching users" it's the application : switcher we're talking about.. LiteSwitch has existed since : at least 1997 (though with different appearance in legacy : Mac OS).. Windoze 3.1 has been around longer than that. : i also note the rumor that Apple hired the developer that : Proteron had used for LiteSwitch X.. Oh man, are we gonna get into a tissy over another rumor? -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From kcall at mac.com Sat Nov 1 03:21:17 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin C.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Easily-missed Expose feature In-Reply-To: References: <3E7D3F24-0840-11D8-952E-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <43A5289C-095B-11D8-9634-00306574D7D4@mac.com> On Oct 27, 2003, at 3:47 PM, Lukreme wrote: > On 27 Oct 2003, at 10:34, Kevin C. wrote: >> On Oct 26, 2003, at 9:41 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >>> Start expose with either F9 or F10, then hit TAB. Expose enters >>> app-windows mode, and cycles to a different app every time you hit >>> tab. (Shift-TAB cycles in the opposite direction.) >> >> seems like the app has to have more than 1 window open for the >> cmd-tab to select the app > > Er... no. > > It brought up x=chat aqua, mail, omni dictionary, and Mozilla all of > which have only one window open. i guess you don't need to hold cmd key down when cycling app windows after starting Expos?. F9, then tilde or tab to cycle k > > -- > One by one the bulbs burned out, like long lives come to their > expected ends. From zbir at urbanape.com Sat Nov 1 03:22:30 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Panther Mail Threading: disappointed Message-ID: <0F8BEE01-095C-11D8-86F9-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> [Note: Apologies if this ends up being delivered twice, I sent it on Monday, but it was never delivered.] I had _really_ hoped that Mail's threading feature would actually _look_ like a threading mail reader: Subject One |-> Re: Subject One | +-> Re: Subject One |-> Re: Subject One | +-> Stupid Subject Change (was Re: Subject One) | +-> Stupid Subject Change (was Re: Subject One) +-> Re: Subject One Instead, we get this: Subject One |-> Re: Subject One |-> Re: Subject One |-> Re: Subject One |-> Stupid Subject Change (was Re: Subject One) |-> Stupid Subject Change (was Re: Subject One) |-> Re: Subject One Which helps not at all with understanding the thread direction. Zac -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/ab9bc0a7/smime.bin From mark at imap-partners.net Sat Nov 1 03:45:42 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Panther Mail Threading: disappointed In-Reply-To: <0F8BEE01-095C-11D8-86F9-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> References: <0F8BEE01-095C-11D8-86F9-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Message-ID: On 28 Oct 2003, at 16:33, Zachery Bir wrote: > [Note: Apologies if this ends up being delivered twice, I sent it on > Monday, but it was never delivered.] Sure it was, at least to me. I got it immediately and replied, but MY REPLY was never ...etc. I think the best policy is for nobody to post for about 3 or 4 days. mark. From oeyvind at mac.com Sat Nov 1 03:49:22 2003 From: oeyvind at mac.com (Tim Chong) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: FotoStation like app? Message-ID: <393F13FA-095E-11D8-9C6B-000393DC80A0@mac.com> Hi there, Anyone here use FotoStation Pro before? We now running Panther, and they still don't have a version running on Mac OS X... sigh. Is there any similar app to it on the platform? Forget Cumulus. Thanks, Tim -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/06d61da2/smime.bin From johannes at connected.ch Sat Nov 1 04:06:31 2003 From: johannes at connected.ch (Johannes Vetsch) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <377D45FF-0C62-11D8-BD1E-000393764C26@connected.ch> Am Samstag, 01.11.03 um 07:26 Uhr schrieb Dan.Gaters: > "rogerhoward@mac.com" wrote: > >> No one but you seems to think it's meant to compete with Suitcase > > It's disingenuous for you to say that since I never said it's meant to > compete with Suitcase, or any others for that matter. > > FontBook is crippled not because it has fewer features than, say, > Suitcase, > but because it does not deliver what it promises and what even a basic > font > management app should do. Its many failings are enumerated in the > article > posted and you chose to highlight one passage to dismiss it: > >> "But you cannot create reports, examine fonts, manage damaged files, >> or >> import/export font collections " > > I'll leave it to others who read the actual piece to decide whether > this > clipping is disingenuous or not. > > Let's take just one issue cited in the clip above: management. Yes, I > do > think that a font management app should manage damaged fonts. Yes, I do > think it should resolve fonts without creating a havoc: > > Resolve feature in Font Book may cause problems > article.php?story=2003102715591489#comments> I don't don't know on what your expectations are based, but I have the the impression not on years of font management. Otherwise you should know that manage "damaged" (what ever is damaged) always was something like poker and the last to expect solving a font problem. Font Book is helpful for consumers and non graphic designers, all those who missed an accurate preview of a font they found on the net or in a clipart collection. > > Yes, I do think enabling/disabling/deleting/moving fonts should be > heck of a > lot more obvious, Cool for every font-using app a kind of Suitcase XT plug-in.... please, even with suitcase I have often to quit Word, activate the fonts in suitcase restart word to get them. If done seriously this must be done on app level and to get it absolutely waterproof every document should open and close the fonts it needs. > especially to the novice. When Joe Novice has a bunch of > fonts in a folder and wants to see what his fonts look like, his fonts > are > duplicated. Joe novice should learn some basics about fonts first.... (sorry for this one), but as long as Microsoft (never willing to pay any licensing fees to anybody for basic technologies), Adobe and Apple get one! font standard and not three and all the fonts are ported to this standard Jo Novice will have troubles that can't be solved by font management. > When he disables fonts from FontBook, what happens to the fonts? > When he wants to get rid of fonts already in FB, how does he do it? > Are they > disabled? Deleted? Gone from the duplicate file? From the original > folder > they came from? > > FB doesn't make all the simple things simple(r ) and fails to attack > many of > the harder things at all. > > In the end, it does not have enough umph to compete against Suitcase, > but > covers enough space in Suitcase's territory to perhaps seriously harm > it by > slow bleeding. If font management would have been such an easy task the marketplace would have been crowded since years, and who knows why Adobe is stepping back from ATM Deluxe for OS X. - Extensis gets the whole crowd of ATM deluxe users (back) - Extensis is "forcing" their customers slowly but steadily into server/clients based systems with lots of additional features (if you need them or not). Extensis as plug in developer is basically with every app upgrade confronted with additional features implemented into new versions. It's their daily bread to stay one step ahead or to find new niches. johannes > > d*g > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From dan at tangledhelix.com Sat Nov 1 04:15:01 2003 From: dan at tangledhelix.com (Dan Lowe) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Junk Mail not being foldered? Message-ID: <444377CA-0C62-11D8-B1DF-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> Ever since I moved to Panther, my Junk Mail is not being foldered. I have in Junk Mail prefs: Enable Junk Mail filtering When Junk Mail arrives: Move it to the Junk mailbox Following types are excepted: All three are checked Trust Junk mail headers is also checked. However I'm seeing mail from random addresses marked as Junk and then not moved. The sender is not in my address book or my recipients list, nor is my full name used. I copied my mail prefs plist file and my ~/Library/Mail/ folder over from my previous (Jaguar) system, where Mail behaved as expected (anything marked Junk was automatically foldered). I tried toggling the setting in Panther to disable filtering, then turn it back on, hoping it would reset something but it's still misbehaving. Has anyone else run into this? I'm using IMAP for inbox, but everything else (sent, junk, trash, etc) are local folders. -- Be humble, for you are made of dung. Be noble, for you are made of stars. -Serbian proverb From fabienlroy at mac.com Sat Nov 1 04:16:59 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Disk Utility Hangs While Partitioning New Disk Drive In-Reply-To: <027BD73E-08CB-11D8-95D3-0003935952E2@trilithon.com> Message-ID: <190500EE-0C63-11D8-B01B-000393658196@mac.com> I have a 160 Gig Maxtor on an external FireWire enclosure. I would suggest you to try with FireWire, you will get abetter throughput. Fabien. On Monday, Oct 27, 2003, at 14:15 America/Los_Angeles, Henry McGilton wrote: > > > Hello All, > last week I queried the list on the subject of > the system losing a second disk now and again. > > Several people responded with the notes that this is a known problem > with Maxtor disks, apparently from a bad batch. > > So, I bought a brand new 120GB disk, and installed it in an external > USB enclosure. I fire up the disk, then plug in the USB cable. > The system sees that there is an disk of a type that is unknown, > and asks if I want to initialise the disk, so I say yes. > > Disk Utility starts up. Disk Utility displays the statistics of > the new disk. > > So first I select the disk, and select Erase, and erase the disk. > That appears to work after displaying a progress bar for a couple > of seconds. > > Then, I select Partition, and that is where the trouble starts. > I name the volume to go in the partition, and I push the Partition > button. > > A sheet comes up with the message: > > Preparing drive ... unmounting old volumes > > and Disk Utility then proceeds to sit there twiddling its thumbs > for as many hours as I wish to wait for it. On one of the attempts > at partitioning the drive, I moved the Disk Utility window aside, > only to reveal another panel/sheet/window, with the message: > > Setting up partition map. > > Disk Utility appears to be well and truly wedged. In this state, > you can not quit Disk Utility, but have to force quit from the > Apple menu. > > I have searched pretty much every archive I can find for some > combination of Disk Utility and hang and so on, with no results. > > The Disk Utility help book is of course useless, as it tells you > only about things that work. > > If anybody has any ideas, I would appreciate hearing them. > > Many Thanks, > ........ Henry > > > ===============================+============================ > Henry McGilton, Boulevardier | Trilithon Software > Objective-C/Java Composer | Seroia Research > -------------------------------+---------------------------- > mailto:henry@trilithon.com | http://www.trilithon.com > | > ===============================+============================ > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From mark at imap-partners.net Sat Nov 1 04:22:05 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: FotoStation like app? In-Reply-To: <393F13FA-095E-11D8-9C6B-000393DC80A0@mac.com> References: <393F13FA-095E-11D8-9C6B-000393DC80A0@mac.com> Message-ID: <2CE026F8-0C63-11D8-99B6-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> On 28 Oct 2003, at 16:48, Tim Chong wrote: > Anyone here use FotoStation Pro before? > > Is there any similar app to it on the platform? Haven't used it (FotoStattion Pro), but it _looks_ like iViewMediaPro: http://www.iview-multimedia.com/ might be the best bet. I'm assuming that iPhoto, Lightbox and such like are too light weight ? mark. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sat Nov 1 04:40:04 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Panther Mail Threading: disappointed In-Reply-To: References: <0F8BEE01-095C-11D8-86F9-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Message-ID: Fuck it, dude. Let's make that two months. For Danson, let's make it two years. j. On Nov 1, 2003, at 12:37 PM, mark wrote: > I think the best policy is for nobody to post for about 3 or 4 days. From jared at 23x.net Sat Nov 1 04:51:04 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: NAT and FTP In-Reply-To: References: <51E73526-0AFB-11D8-8923-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: <3FA3A9D4.7030004@23x.net> mark wrote: >> Because ftp is b0rked. You have to use PASV if you are behind a NAT. > > Yes, I thought this was the case and I am running PASV. got all the passive ports forwarded too? -- jared@23x.net still no .sig From joar at joar.com Sat Nov 1 04:57:56 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Junk Mail not being foldered? In-Reply-To: <444377CA-0C62-11D8-B1DF-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> References: <444377CA-0C62-11D8-B1DF-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> Message-ID: I have seen it on occasion. Most junk mail is moved, but some are just tagged and left in the inbox. I'm using POP. j o a r On 2003-11-01, at 12.55, Dan Lowe wrote: > Has anyone else run into this? I'm using IMAP for inbox, but > everything else (sent, junk, trash, etc) are local folders. From jared at 23x.net Sat Nov 1 05:02:00 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: GD support in Panther's php In-Reply-To: <3899319C-0954-11D8-9C6B-000393DC80A0@mac.com> References: <3899319C-0954-11D8-9C6B-000393DC80A0@mac.com> Message-ID: <3FA3AADB.2080306@23x.net> Tim Chong wrote: > Is there a quick and easy way to add gd support to Panther's php > distribution? http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/php/ -- jared@23x.net still no .sig From rpuls at kcore.de Sat Nov 1 05:08:18 2003 From: rpuls at kcore.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Puls?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Junk Mail not being foldered? In-Reply-To: <444377CA-0C62-11D8-B1DF-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> References: <444377CA-0C62-11D8-B1DF-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> Message-ID: <6EF139EC-0C6A-11D8-B436-000393B421DA@kcore.de> Hello Dan, Am 01.11.2003 um 12:55 schrieb Dan Lowe: > Ever since I moved to Panther, my Junk Mail is not being foldered. > [...] > > Has anyone else run into this? I'm using IMAP for inbox, but > everything else (sent, junk, trash, etc) are local folders. Yes, I had the same problem. Only half of all junk mail was correctly moved to the Junk folder, the rest had the junk icon, but stayed in my inbox. What's even stranger: it seems to work now, but I don't know why. I hate bugs, but I hate it even more when they go away without apparent reason. :-) It would be good if we could track this down and file a bug which Apple can fix. If you would like to compare your Mail preference file with mine, mail me privately. Perhaps we can find something in there. Kind regards, Rene Puls PS: I remember changing the junk mail folder to something else, and then changing it back again. Not sure if that was the actual solution, but it was one of the last things I tried. From mark at imap-partners.net Sat Nov 1 05:25:41 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: NAT and FTP In-Reply-To: <3FA3A9D4.7030004@23x.net> References: <51E73526-0AFB-11D8-8923-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <3FA3A9D4.7030004@23x.net> Message-ID: On 1 Nov 2003, at 13:40, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > mark wrote: >>> Because ftp is b0rked. You have to use PASV if you are behind a NAT. >> Yes, I thought this was the case and I am running PASV. > > got all the passive ports forwarded too? aha, this could signify progress, since I don't know what it means ("forwarded", I mean). port 21 is open on both machines if that's what you mean. If not, what do you mean ? mark. From macosx at wooz.org Sat Nov 1 07:13:52 2003 From: macosx at wooz.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: This List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1067698727.5173.100.camel@anthem> On Thu, 2003-10-30 at 12:47, Chuck Soper wrote: > It's not just you. The same thing is happening to me. > > Your message was stamped 8:36 AM -0800. Does this mean it took over > an hour for me to receive it? It's 9:45 now and I've been checking my > email every ten minutes for the last hour. Your message came in about > five minutes ago. I have no idea what's going on or whether this has anything to do with the list's problems, but I do notice that it's running a very old copy of Mailman. The site admins should at least upgrade to 2.0.13, if not 2.1. -Barry From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Sat Nov 1 08:51:02 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Mail.app attachments Message-ID: <30E0038E-0C8A-11D8-AEFB-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> This is probably a stupid question but is there any way to store attachments separately to the mbox files? (but still have Mail.app be able to find them) Stefano From cgaraffa at creativeaim.com Sat Nov 1 09:21:19 2003 From: cgaraffa at creativeaim.com (Chris Garaffa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: trash In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 30, 2003, at 1:16 PM, William Ehrich wrote: > Each smime file is about 2400 bytes (compared with 187 bytes for a > pgp.sig). > > I realize that "signing" a message makes the sender feel important, > and hesitate to deny otherwise deprived people of this small pleasure, > but The biggest problem signatures pose for me is that viewing a message which has been signed takes an extra second or two (on a 867MHz 12" PowerBook). An extra second or two? You might think I must be crazy to complain. But when I woke up this morning and realized I had over 100 unread messages in various mailboxes (not an unusual occurrence) with almost 50 of those in this mailbox, those extra seconds add up. -- Chris Garaffa cgaraffa@creativeaim.com From tallama at mac.com Sat Nov 1 09:37:09 2003 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <70EA0F52-0A94-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <087DA636-0AF6-11D8-96BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> <7F29829A-0AFE-11D8-B27E-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> <9A050B0E-0B15-11D8-BE6A-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <05ECCC02-0B2A-11D8-94AE-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <00B74D4D-0C90-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> No; they are both distributors. They do very well at getting technology to people and making lots of money at it by cutting down their costs. In both cases, they destroy the competition because they can afford to spend less on R&D and they cut their margins lower than the competition can. In both cases, they ship products that almost work like they should, because the engineering team's number one goal was not to make the product a quality product, but to check off boxes from a marketing bullet list[1]. I was having a conversation last night with a friend who does Windows programming[2] and he agreed with this assessment completely. It makes me sad to thing about it. [1] Note that other tech companies have similar lists, and so does Linux, but they're not first priority. [2] That is to say, he programs for Windows; he does not program Windows itself. On Oct 30, 2003, at 3:22 PM, Michael Stearne wrote: > > On Oct 30, 2003, at 5:40 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > >> On Oct 30, 2003, at 12:14 PM, j o a r wrote: >> >>> There should be a web page collecting all these pieces of UI theft, >>> with screenshots of when a particular thing first appeared on the >>> Mac, and on Windows. >> >> The problem is it would read like a guided tour of every aspect of >> Windows. >> >> And don't think it stops at the Mac. No idea what Windows 95 would >> have looked like if NeXT didn't exist. How long would it have taken >> to think up Visual Basic if Interface Builder wasn't invented first? >> >> Microsoft isn't really a technology company. >> > > Haha, > > Is Dell? > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/44bb881e/smime.bin From interauto at ptt.yu Sat Nov 1 09:43:26 2003 From: interauto at ptt.yu (Jugoslav Stojadinovic) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: unscri me Message-ID: <3FA3F0AF.9050403@ptt.yu> UNSCRIBE ME From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 1 09:48:54 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 28 Oct 2003, at 16:57, Michael Grant wrote: > It's less a matter of "rights" or of whose "fault" it is than of simple > courtesy to the many people "still" using the many widespread apps that > don't support it (like, er, Entourage). While that's all very well, when every message from you has a "large" signature, then where's the consideration? Please note, I'm not getting at you but trying to stress that there are two sides to every coin and one man's consideration is another man's spat-at-inna-face... > -- > "There's only one person who hugs the mothers and the widows, the > wives and > the kids upon the death of their loved one. Others hug but having > committed > the troops, I've got an additional responsibility to hug and that's me > and I > know what it's like." > > - George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 11, 2002 > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From henry at trilithon.com Sat Nov 1 10:08:18 2003 From: henry at trilithon.com (Henry McGilton) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <00B74D4D-0C90-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> Message-ID: On Saturday, November 1, 2003, at 09:22 AM, The Amazing Llama wrote: > No; they are both distributors. They do very well at getting > technology to people and making lots of money at it by cutting down > their costs. > In both cases, they destroy the competition because they can afford to > spend less on R&D and they cut their margins lower than the > competition can. Not that I am defending Micro$oft, but, their Research and Development budget for the past twelve months has been $4.659 BILLION, amounting to 14 percent of their revenues of just over $32 Billion. In the case of Dell, you are correct --- their Research and Development budget is a miserable one percent of revenues. So, Micro$oft poured a greater fraction of their revenues into Research and Development than even IBM --- the grand master of Research and Development --- who spent just six percent of their $85 Billion revenues. Course, whether they are just screwing around with it is another question. > In both cases, they ship products that almost work like they should, > because the engineering team's number one goal was not to make the > product a quality product, but to check off boxes from a marketing > bullet list[1]. I was having a conversation last night with a friend > who does Windows programming[2] and he agreed with this assessment > completely. It makes me sad to thing about it. > > [1] Note that other tech companies have similar lists, and so does > Linux, but they're not first priority. > [2] That is to say, he programs for Windows; he does not program > Windows itself. > > On Oct 30, 2003, at 3:22 PM, Michael Stearne wrote: > >> >> On Oct 30, 2003, at 5:40 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> >>> On Oct 30, 2003, at 12:14 PM, j o a r wrote: >>> >>>> There should be a web page collecting all these pieces of UI theft, >>>> with screenshots of when a particular thing first appeared on the >>>> Mac, and on Windows. >>> >>> The problem is it would read like a guided tour of every aspect of >>> Windows. >>> >>> And don't think it stops at the Mac. No idea what Windows 95 would >>> have looked like if NeXT didn't exist. How long would it have taken >>> to think up Visual Basic if Interface Builder wasn't invented first? >>> >>> Microsoft isn't really a technology company. >>> >> >> Haha, >> >> Is Dell? >> >> Michael ===============================+============================ Henry McGilton, Boulevardier | Trilithon Software Objective-C/Java Composer | Seroia Research -------------------------------+---------------------------- mailto:henry@trilithon.com | http://www.trilithon.com | ===============================+============================ From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 1 10:14:17 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: <25949240-0808-11D8-AB7D-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <49E39D4C-080D-11D8-8989-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 28 Oct 2003, at 16:59, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 10:50 PM +0000 10/27/03, Matt wrote: >> Well, the truth is that if everyone would GET WITH THE PROGRAM and >> UPGRADE TO PANTHER then they wouldn't see the attachment as Mail >> would hide it. >> >> So it's their own sodding fault. >> >> Oh...:) > > I don't use Mail damnit. Humanity invented flogging for a reason. *threatening look* M -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From macosx at wooz.org Sat Nov 1 10:19:22 2003 From: macosx at wooz.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1067431381.4812.0.camel@anthem> On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 12:32, Rian wrote: > just a note of agreement with Bill. It would be nice if all > attachments were filtered from macosx-talk. I'm not weighing in on whether it should be done or not, but if the list admins were to upgrade to Mailman 2.1, it would be possible. -Barry From tallama at mac.com Sat Nov 1 10:26:31 2003 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB08E1E-0C96-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> On Oct 31, 2003, at 12:28 AM, Dan Gaters wrote: > "j o a r" wrote: >> So I say; if a software category is important for Apple, and if it >> doesn't currently have a good product from a third party developer - >> Apple should go right ahead and introduce one. > > So how exactly do you explain the Panther app switcher? Was this a > crucial > category for Apple? There was currently no good product from ISVs? > Likewise, > was Watson so inferior to Sherlock? I liken both of these to developers sitting on railroad tracks as the train barrels down on them. It was obvious where these designs were going, and the developers got there a little quicker and then assumed the train would stop instead of run them over. Sorry, but no. Sherlock 3 had been inside Apple for some months before Watson appeared, and LiteswitchX was a copy of Windows functionality with a UI that looked like what Apple would make. And look, Apple made it. Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/3b7b00b2/smime.bin From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Sat Nov 1 10:57:30 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: PDF/X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031101184233.GO1221@Dark-Age.local> On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 07:53:22PM +0100, David L?zaro Saz wrote: : : Can somebody enlighten me on what is a PDF/X. I've read about it in : some brochures but have not been able to find where this format is : specified. PDF/X is basically PDF sans several features removed to speed up the production process. http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/17500.html -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From soft at bdanube.com Sat Nov 1 11:08:48 2003 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: Safari questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 10/31/03 1:45 AM, "Dan Gaters" wrote: >> How can I stop animated ads in Safari? > > The developer's Web site, or maybe it was the installer read-me, specifically says the current version of Pith Helmet won't work on Panther. :-( Michael -- I dreamed that my wife gave me a fruit called a 'dango'. From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 1 11:09:54 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NiceBigAttachment.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 13383 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/6b5cd417/NiceBigAttachment.pdf From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 1 11:15:49 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: FotoStation like app? In-Reply-To: <393F13FA-095E-11D8-9C6B-000393DC80A0@mac.com> References: <393F13FA-095E-11D8-9C6B-000393DC80A0@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031028, 23:48 +0800, they whom i call Tim Chong wrote: >Is there any similar app to [FotoStation Pro] on the platform? Forget Cumulus. i'll second mark's suggestion.. for cataloging digital photos, i've been very impressed with iView Media Pro 1.5.7.. version 2.0 looks good on paper, but there are many problem reports on the iView forums, so i haven't upgraded yet (not to mention the price went up).. if you're starting from scratch, though, there's little harm in trying the demo (2.0.1 is a release for Panther compatibility) iView Media (non-"Pro") is much cheaper and has a lot of functionality -- check out the comparison on the iView site there is also Extensis Portfolio, which many people use.. i have noticed VersionTracker comments that the latest version, 6.1, does not work in Panther -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 1 11:16:55 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:07 2005 Subject: font activation (was: Apple's Dillema) In-Reply-To: <377D45FF-0C62-11D8-BD1E-000393764C26@connected.ch> References: <377D45FF-0C62-11D8-BD1E-000393764C26@connected.ch> Message-ID: at 20031101, 12:54 +0100, they whom i call Johannes Vetsch wrote: >Cool for every font-using app a kind of Suitcase XT plug-in.... >please, even with suitcase I have often to quit Word, activate the >fonts in suitcase restart word to get them. If done seriously this >must be done on app level and to get it absolutely waterproof every >document should open and close the fonts it needs. in general, that shouldn't be necessary ... i haven't explored the APIs used by font managers, but here's what i've inferred from various discussions (corrections welcome): in general Mac OS X has a mechanism to make font activation transparent.. font managers can register to receive a message when an app requests to use an unavailable font.. upon receiving the message, the manager activates the font and the app never knows the font wasn't active it's more vague what happens when an a font is activated (or deactivated) while an app is idle.. somehow the app has to recognize the change in status and update font menus, etc.. i'm not clear on how apps get these messages or deal with them -- particularly if the change is instigated by the user modifying a Font folder two major complications: some apps bypass the normal APIs for getting font information.. Adobe is on record doing this, MS Word may do it too.. hence for InDesign a plug-in is required to get the message through.. such plug-ins, coming from the font manager developers, don't deal with the generic cases such as a user disabling a font in Finder there also seems to be latency in the status of fonts.. deactivating a font in Finder often doesn't change the fonts status in running apps, presumably because this is a passive change and doesn't inherently generate a message.. sometimes even relaunching an app doesn't clear up an activation discrepancy.. the blame usually goes to the font caches i hope the development of Font Book forced Apple to grapple with these issues, cleaning up the font cache problems and perhaps even using filesystem notifications to respond to direct changes in Fonts folders.. having a solid underpinning for Font activation in the OS is far preferable to developers like Adobe rolling their own font loading code.. and it would help the font manager developers focus on making their apps more usable >If font management would have been such an easy task the marketplace >would have been crowded since years, and who knows why Adobe is >stepping back from ATM Deluxe for OS X. presumably because the market is too small for a full-scale Adobe development effort.. i suspect smaller developers can be more efficient at this scale >- Extensis gets the whole crowd of ATM deluxe users (back) not really, Font Agent Pro is a worthy competitor, and i still have hopes that Unsanity will pull something out of the hat (though Font Card has been a disappointment) -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 1 11:18:40 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Profont and Mail.app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031101, 09:39 +0100, they whom i call mark wrote: >However, I did manage to get one of my fixed width fonts (Pragmata) >to show up (one that previously wasn't showing up obviously) by >running this on it: > >http://homepage.mac.com/mdouma46/dfont/dfont.html which is the same as (assuming a traditional Mac TrueType font file, F): cp F/..namedfork/rsrc F.dfont or just do a fork-swap with Path Finder or another tool make sure you do this to a TrueType-only version of ProFont >I don't think it is simply the case that all dfont monospaced fonts >show up and no non-dfont fonts show up, but it seems that for some >monospaced fonts, it is merely the fact that they are not in dfont >format that prevents them from being included. if true, that's very odd, since there is literally no functional difference between the formats -- steve harley From soft at bdanube.com Sat Nov 1 11:33:36 2003 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 10/29/03 6:24 AM, "Matt" wrote: > While that's all very well, when every message from you has a "large" > signature, then where's the consideration? Honest question: do sigs really bother you? I hardly notice them. Michael (Using a small one this time) -- "Monolingualism is a form of oppression!" - Ilan Stavans From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 1 11:45:23 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: The Panther Effect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9D8B91DC-0CA1-11D8-BCB8-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 26 Oct 2003, at 1441, Erik J. Barzeski wrote: > On 10/26/03 3:18 PM... >> On 25 Oct 2003, at 22:22, The Amazing Llama wrote: >>> Here's my favorite not-too-hyped-but-very-keen-feature so far: >>> >>> Open a new TextEdit document. Type 'cr' Hit Option-Escape (Or F5, or >>> whatever you have complete: bound to). Shazam. >> >> Woah! that's cool! Is it anywhere else but textedit and mail? > > Why is that so cool? It's faster to type the words than to choose it > from > that list... depends on how good your spelling is. Or maybe you had a brain fart and can't quite remember the words you're thinking of? But the real coolness of it is in something like Xcode where you can autocomplete the name of a function. -- You try to shape the world to what you want the world to be. Carving your name a thousand times won't bring you back to me. Oh no, no I might as well go and tell it to the trees. Go and tell it to the trees, yeah. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/4f8c1296/smime.bin From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 1 11:47:25 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1 Nov 2003, at 18:52, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > Very cute. There's a difference. Due to the rendering, I can't easily quote you. Essentially you're asking some people who don't have a problem with small signature attachments to do extra work to accommodate some people who do have a problem. I've always maintained that if you have a problem with something, then you should realise it's you who have the problem Frankly the mailing list SHOULD be stripping attachments. That would settle things. M -- Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. From das at doit.wisc.edu Sat Nov 1 11:52:22 2003 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27B71B68-0CA1-11D8-9D76-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Uh, first of all, it's not 17.7K. Second, the problem does not lie with the sender as you imply. Third, the attachment is about as big and annoying as, say, your sig. - Dave From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 1 12:05:25 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <27B71B68-0CA1-11D8-9D76-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> References: <27B71B68-0CA1-11D8-9D76-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NiceBigAttachment.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 7417 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/6a7ffa28/NiceBigAttachment.pdf From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 1 12:06:34 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <27B71B68-0CA1-11D8-9D76-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> References: <27B71B68-0CA1-11D8-9D76-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NiceBigAttachment.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 7417 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/2e0ff6a1/NiceBigAttachment.pdf From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 1 12:09:18 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1 Nov 2003, at 19:03, Michael Grant wrote: > On 10/29/03 6:24 AM, "Matt" wrote: > >> While that's all very well, when every message from you has a "large" >> signature, then where's the consideration? > > Honest question: do sigs really bother you? I hardly notice them. > Michael > (Using a small one this time) Me? Nope. But then the smime.p7 files don't bother me either. I'm pretty easygoing, me. Stop laughing. M From amh at pobox.com Sat Nov 1 12:19:47 2003 From: amh at pobox.com (Andrew M. Hoerter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Disk images much smaller than expected Message-ID: I'm relatively new to OS X, and recently came across an interesting property of disk images that I can't explain. I searched the list archives and googled but couldn't come up with much, so pardon me if this has already been discussed at some point. I'm running 10.2.8 on a G4 PB 12" (if it matters). I have a 7.5GB folder in my home directory (the Music folder containing my iTunes library), which I wanted to back up to another system which doesn't understand resource forks and may have different filesystem naming constraints. Maybe it's overkill, but to be safe, I decided to create a disk image containing this folder to safely encapsulate the data for movement to the other system. So I fired up Disk Copy, created an uncompressed HFS+ disk image, and everything worked fine. I can mount the image, all the files are there, etc. The odd part is this: I noticed a huge discrepancy between the size of the disk image and what it should contain. The .dmg file is only about 2GB, pretty far shy of the 7GB+ it should hypothetically be. When I mount the image, "df -k" in a Terminal window reports the full 7.5GB size that would be expected. But the .dmg file itself is much, much smaller than I would expect, as illustrated here: amh@xanadu amh$ du -sk Music 7870756 Music amh@xanadu amh$ du -sk ~/test/Music.dmg 2068828 /Users/amh/test/Music.dmg What's going on here? Is the size being misreported somehow? As far as I can tell there isn't anything missing from the image, so something isn't adding up. From sstevenson at mac.com Sat Nov 1 13:16:29 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: trash In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C533F8A-0CAE-11D8-9E3D-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Oct 30, 2003, at 10:16 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > Please, Scott, is there some way for the list server to suppress this? I don't administer the list, but I sent the messages to Ken. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From das at doit.wisc.edu Sat Nov 1 13:18:24 2003 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: <27B71B68-0CA1-11D8-9D76-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <874131ED-0CAE-11D8-B923-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> On Nov 1, 2003, at 1:35 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > Digital signatures serve a purpose. Your juvenile decision to apparently make all of your message contents pdf attachments, on the other hand, don't. It doesn't bother me at all, except that your ridiculous little antics don't prove any point at all except that you don't understand digital signatures. And "live with it"? Yes, getting an extra 3K digital signature with a message is such a horrific hardship. I trust I don't have to point out the complete lack of relation of any kind between you making your entire message essentially a graphic attachment, vs. others choosing to attach an S/MIME standard digital signature to a message in quite possibly the most accepted way currently possible. - Dave From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 1 13:33:10 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <685F1553-0CB1-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 01 Nov 2003, at 1229, Matt wrote: > On 1 Nov 2003, at 18:52, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >> > > Very cute. There's a difference. Due to the rendering, I can't easily > quote you. There's lots of differences. it is trivial for anyone using OS X to strip the signatures if they want to. there are even utilities that specifically are written to strip attachments from mail (mimestripper is one, iirc, as well as mimedefang and of course, procmail). It is not trivial to convert a pdf to readable text. > Frankly the mailing list SHOULD be stripping attachments. That would > settle things. Nah, I like that this list accepts attachments. However, if they wanted to strip the signatures that would be fine. application/pkcs7-signature is the mime type in question. -- we all have our moments when we lose it the key is though, to conceal the evidence before the police arrive -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/e9fda104/smime.bin From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 1 13:34:48 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 7:29 PM +0000 11/1/03, Matt wrote: >On 1 Nov 2003, at 18:52, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >> > >Very cute. There's a difference. Due to the rendering, I can't >easily quote you. Well, no one said there was anything convenient about it now. Just like those damn smime files... nothing convenient about them. >Essentially you're asking some people who don't have a problem with >small signature attachments to do extra work to accommodate some >people who do have a problem. I've always maintained that if you >have a problem with something, then you should realise it's you who >have the problem So, you're advocating that if you don't want to read my PDF messages, you have a problem, correct? >Frankly the mailing list SHOULD be stripping attachments. That would >settle things. Frankly, something needs to be done. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 1 13:37:26 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <874131ED-0CAE-11D8-B923-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> References: <27B71B68-0CA1-11D8-9D76-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <874131ED-0CAE-11D8-B923-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NiceBigAttachment.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 14869 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/3bc4e6dd/NiceBigAttachment.pdf From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 1 13:56:58 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 01 Nov 2003, at 1423, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > Frankly, something needs to be done. I don't here anyone else going on about this. Are you saying the 1500+ users on this list are represented by you and you alone? -- Growing up leads to growing old, and then to dying/And dying to me don't sound like all that much fun. From soft at bdanube.com Sat Nov 1 13:59:40 2003 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Kensington & Expos=?ISO-8859-2?B?6Q==?= Message-ID: Has anyone found a way to assign the Expos? commands to the "direct launch" buttons on a Kensington trackball? I can't seem to assign function keys to the buttons, and I use the other key options in the Expose prefpane too often for other things. Michael -- "No rights reserved" From charlesd at newsguy.com Sat Nov 1 14:19:04 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: At 14:44 -0700 01/11/2003, Lukreme wrote: >On 01 Nov 2003, at 1423, Mark F. Murphy wrote: >>Frankly, something needs to be done. > >I don't here anyone else going on about this. Are you saying the >1500+ users on this list are represented by you and you alone? There are others who don't like the silly things. Some of them have posted on this thread earlier, others have held their peace 'cause he was doing a good enough job as it was. And, of course, in the event that you don't want to see his stuff, I seem to recall someone posting the following: begin quoted text: _________________ create a file named .procmailrc in your $HOME and put this in it :0 * ^From:(.*\<)?kremels /dev/null thank you, now go away. _______________ end quoted text reset your procmail file accordingly. problem done. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 1 14:21:25 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2818966E-0CB8-11D8-A57A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 1 Nov 2003, at 21:23, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >> Essentially you're asking some people who don't have a problem with >> small signature attachments to do extra work to accommodate some >> people who do have a problem. I've always maintained that if you have >> a problem with something, then you should realise it's you who have >> the problem > > So, you're advocating that if you don't want to read my PDF messages, > you have a problem, correct? You're missing my point. I'm happy enough for you to send PDFs. I don't care and I think they may even look spiffy if you ditch courier and use a nice font. And some decoration. I DON'T have a problem with it, much the same as I don't have a problem with you having a large signature or having a PGP or S/MIME signature file on the end. >> Frankly the mailing list SHOULD be stripping attachments. That would >> settle things. > > Frankly, something needs to be done. Well, if we all had a penny for every wasted byte on this list, we'd all be billionaires. I think some people need to chill. From das at doit.wisc.edu Sat Nov 1 14:23:37 2003 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> On Nov 1, 2003, at 3:44 PM, Lukreme wrote: > On 01 Nov 2003, at 1423, Mark F. Murphy wrote: >> Frankly, something needs to be done. > > I don't here anyone else going on about this. Are you saying the > 1500+ users on this list are represented by you and you alone? Yes, he has decided that he's going to send every message as a graphic from now on, not even realizing fundamental flaws in his attempted, but tragically failed, comparison between his own childish behavior, and persons using S/MIME digital signatures. "Something needs to be done"!!!!!! Jeez. - Dave From listor at melin.org Sat Nov 1 14:30:16 2003 From: listor at melin.org (Joacim Melin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: RendezVous enabled Apache in Panther Server ? Message-ID: I guess the subject says it all - will the Apache httpd server in Panther Server be able to serve web pages via Rendezvous? Jaguar Server didn't support this but there is a patch for Apache for the Jaguar client Apache installation that enables this. Joacim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ joacim melin > http://z80.org > joacim at melin dot org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 1 14:34:09 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: At 2:44 PM -0700 11/1/03, Lukreme wrote: >On 01 Nov 2003, at 1423, Mark F. Murphy wrote: >>Frankly, something needs to be done. > >I don't here anyone else going on about this. Are you saying the >1500+ users on this list are represented by you and you alone? Several people did speak up on this thread already.... but I didn't bring anyone else into this. I speak only for myself. So when someone says "Frankly, something needs to be done", it usually is said from their point of view... namely the one speaking it. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 1 14:36:33 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <2818966E-0CB8-11D8-A57A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <2818966E-0CB8-11D8-A57A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: At 10:10 PM +0000 11/1/03, Matt wrote: >You're missing my point. I'm happy enough for you to send PDFs. I >don't care and I think they may even look spiffy if you ditch >courier and use a nice font. And some decoration. > >I DON'T have a problem with it, much the same as I don't have a >problem with you having a large signature or having a PGP or S/MIME >signature file on the end. Very good. Sorry if I misunderstood your point. >>Frankly, something needs to be done. > >Well, if we all had a penny for every wasted byte on this list, we'd >all be billionaires. Very true. >I think some people need to chill. A good point. Best wishes. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sstevenson at mac.com Sat Nov 1 14:51:44 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: [Moderator] Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: <27B71B68-0CA1-11D8-9D76-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <874131ED-0CAE-11D8-B923-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: Okay, this doesn't seem to be going anywhere. I haven't had time to keep up with why you guys are arguing about, but I don't believe anyone is getting convinced. If you have a problem, contact me off-list and describe the issue. Please don't discuss it any further on the list. Thanks, - Scott From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 1 14:55:55 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: At 4:12 PM -0600 11/1/03, Dave Schroeder wrote: >Yes, he has decided that he's going to send every message as a >graphic from now on, not even realizing fundamental flaws in his >attempted, but tragically failed, comparison between his own >childish behavior, and persons using S/MIME digital signatures. Childish behavior is insisting you have the right to clutter people's mailbox with something they've said they do not wish to receive. It goes like this. Please don't send me that stuff I'm going to send it anyway because it has value to me It has no value to me, please don't send me that stuff I'm going to anyway because I find value in it Children continue with an action when they are asked to stop. You've been asked to stop. You've vocally declared you would not... and would ignore the pleas of people asking nicely to please stop. I'll try one more time. Please stop sending me any of your smimes. I don't use them. I don't want them. Thank you. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From joar at joar.com Sat Nov 1 15:03:46 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: Question to Dan: When will we see support in Entourage for certificates? Microsoft Office X 10.1.6? Out soon? ...and if anyone cares (in particular Scott and / or Ken), I vote for stripping of attachments on all mailing lists. Not because of the increased use of certificates (which is good!), but because I think that allowing attachments to lists without moderation is a bad idea. Period. If it was possible I would actually enforce plain text too - but that's just me... j o a r From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 1 15:20:03 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: RendezVous enabled Apache in Panther Server ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92A383F4-0CBD-11D8-8310-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 01 Nov 2003, at 1515, Joacim Melin wrote: > I guess the subject says it all - will the Apache httpd server in > Panther Server be able to serve web pages via Rendezvous? Why wouldn't it? > Jaguar Server didn't support this really? Because jaguar CLIENT did. > but there is a patch for Apache for the Jaguar client Apache > installation that enables this. By "patch" do you mean "uncomment two lines in httpd.conf"? -- Rent a flat above a shop, cut your hair and get a job, smoke some fags and play some pool, pretend you never went to school and still you'll never get it right cuz when you're lay'n in bed at night watching the roaches climb the wall if you called your dad he could stop it all. From joar at joar.com Sat Nov 1 15:36:21 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Panther Config Question In-Reply-To: References: <9AF3DF80-07DD-11D8-A18B-003065C657AA@supernet.com> Message-ID: <8E5BC044-0CBE-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> On 2003-10-26, at 22.37, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> Why should I have to launch an app to change a System wide >> preference. It should have stayed in System Preferences. > System Preferences may seem like a logical choice for the technically > inclined, but consumers won't necessarily make that connection, and > may never find the preference. They think of the browser as the hub of > internet access. Why not make the preference available in both places? A similar thing: Where do you set the preference to what happens when you connect a digital camera via USB? iPhoto (like how we now set default browser)? System preferences (like how we set prefs for blank CDs and DVDs)? Wrong in both cases! - It's in Image Capture! I think it's just weird, and inconsistent. I think that all these things should be managed via a preference pane, or an Apple provided utility. In any case, this is shaping up to be a very good third-party-opportunity. An application that could change all file type and protocol mappings would be a very convenient tool to have! j o a r From toble at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Nov 1 15:44:52 2003 From: toble at blueyonder.co.uk (Toby Morris) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime In-Reply-To: <3C533F8A-0CAE-11D8-9E3D-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <89E42EAB-0CC3-11D8-BA60-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> Dear Scott, I am a little confused - my mailbox is full of smime stuff - is it something to do with Panther or just some twit with a signature file T On Saturday, Nov 1, 2003, at 20:59 Europe/London, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Oct 30, 2003, at 10:16 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > >> Please, Scott, is there some way for the list server to suppress this? > > I don't administer the list, but I sent the messages to Ken. > > - Scott > > > -- > Tree House Ideas > http://treehouseideas.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From dennyrex at earthlink.net Sat Nov 1 15:50:51 2003 From: dennyrex at earthlink.net (Rick Sanford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Saturday, November 1, 2003, at 12:57 PM, Henry McGilton wrote: > > On Saturday, November 1, 2003, at 09:22 AM, The Amazing Llama wrote: > >> No; they are both distributors. They do very well at getting >> technology to people and making lots of money at it by cutting down >> their costs. > > >> In both cases, they destroy the competition because they can afford >> to spend less on R&D and they cut their margins lower than the >> competition can. > > Not that I am defending Micro$oft, but, their Research and Development > budget for the past twelve months has > been $4.659 BILLION, amounting to 14 percent of their revenues of just > over $32 Billion. the spending, which is, of and by itself, a bullet point on a marketing dept. check list; saying you are spending lots of money at something that no-one understands, means justifying your existence while not having to prove anything. it's enough to say you have a large budget for R & D. spending $4.659 BILLION per year means never having to say you're sorry. if Dell was smart [1] they'd say the same thing. but they're doing fine without it, so maybe people don't care about the boxes, which are tangible, when it comes to R & D, but maybe they do, or at least acknowledge that maybe they should, when it comes to software, which is invisible. > > In the case of Dell, you are correct --- their Research and > Development budget is a miserable > one percent of revenues. > > So, Micro$oft poured a greater fraction of their revenues into > Research and Development than even > IBM --- the grand master of Research and Development --- who spent > just six percent of their $85 Billion revenues. > > Course, whether they are just screwing around with it is another > question. doesn't matter as long as we (the public) know the figures. -rick [1] I think that dell is not smart, just greedy, and driven by fear, like intel, and having a working knowledge of, but no interest in, their customers. but that''s me ;-) From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Sat Nov 1 16:13:47 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan.Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "j o a r" wrote: > If it was possible I would actually enforce plain text too - but that's > just me... No, you're not alone. d*g From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Sat Nov 1 16:17:37 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan.Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Panther Config Question In-Reply-To: <8E5BC044-0CBE-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: "j o a r" wrote: > Why not make the preference available in both places? Then people wouldn't necessarily be exposed to Safari. d*g From mmalc_lists at mac.com Sat Nov 1 16:25:12 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Panther Config Question In-Reply-To: <8E5BC044-0CBE-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> References: <9AF3DF80-07DD-11D8-A18B-003065C657AA@supernet.com> <8E5BC044-0CBE-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: On Nov 1, 2003, at 2:55 PM, j o a r wrote: > I think that all these things should be managed via a preference pane, > or an Apple provided utility. > In any case, this is shaping up to be a very good > third-party-opportunity. An application that could change all file > type and protocol mappings would be a very convenient tool to have! > I trust that any third party developing such a utility would do so mindful of the possibility that, in the fullness of time, Apple might render it obsolete... mmalc From listor at melin.org Sat Nov 1 16:26:45 2003 From: listor at melin.org (Joacim Melin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: RendezVous enabled Apache in Panther Server ? In-Reply-To: <92A383F4-0CBD-11D8-8310-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <92A383F4-0CBD-11D8-8310-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: Well, I don't know why it wouldn't work with Panther Server but I want to know, hence my question. AFAIK, a small file had to be downloaded to enable the rendezvous stuff in the client-version of OS X 10.2.x. This file/patch/whatever did not work with OS X Server for some reason. I don't know why. /j ------------------------------------------------------------------------ joacim melin > http://z80.org > joacim at melin dot org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Nov 1, 2003, at 11:48 PM, Lukreme wrote: > On 01 Nov 2003, at 1515, Joacim Melin wrote: >> I guess the subject says it all - will the Apache httpd server in >> Panther Server be able to serve web pages via Rendezvous? > > Why wouldn't it? > >> Jaguar Server didn't support this > > really? Because jaguar CLIENT did. > >> but there is a patch for Apache for the Jaguar client Apache >> installation that enables this. > > By "patch" do you mean "uncomment two lines in httpd.conf"? > > -- > Rent a flat above a shop, cut your hair and get a job, smoke some fags > and play some pool, pretend you never went to school and still you'll > never get it right cuz when you're lay'n in bed at night watching the > roaches climb the wall if you called your dad he could stop it all. > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From joar at joar.com Sat Nov 1 16:46:54 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Panther Config Question In-Reply-To: References: <9AF3DF80-07DD-11D8-A18B-003065C657AA@supernet.com> <8E5BC044-0CBE-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: <01B8C176-0CCD-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> On 2003-11-02, at 01.10, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > I trust that any third party developing such a utility would do so > mindful of the possibility that, in the fullness of time, Apple might > render it obsolete... Of course. This imaginary developer could possibly even be happy if they did. Not all development is done because you want to create something that should last forever and ever, to be famous, or because you think you'll make any money off it. Sometimes you just want to fill a gap, and would really love for someone else to do it for you... j o a r From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 1 17:05:18 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: <4AB08E1E-0C96-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> References: <4AB08E1E-0C96-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031101, 10:07 -0800, they whom i call The Amazing Llama wrote: >I liken both of these to developers sitting on railroad tracks as >the train barrels down on them. It was obvious where these designs >were going, and the developers got there a little quicker and then >assumed the train would stop instead of run them over. Sorry, but no. > >Sherlock 3 had been inside Apple for some months before Watson >appeared, and LiteswitchX was a copy of Windows functionality with a >UI that looked like what Apple would make. And look, Apple made it. is there evidence that Dock-based app-switching was an expedient solution and that Apple all along wanted to do better? or is it more likely that LiteSwitch and its cousins helped show Apple an improvement was needed? this is the crux, i think -- that third parties have an important role in "showing the way".. they take risks and experiment.. eventually Apple adopts some of the best ideas, bundles others, and downright ruins a few.. the process is good overall, but not entirely healthy when Apple's actions increase the risks.. i don't think it's a dilemma, i think it will just take some clear thinking to improve the situation -- any suggestions how? -- steve harley From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Sat Nov 1 17:08:43 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Safari questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031101193453.GS1221@Dark-Age.local> On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 12:56:51PM -0600, Michael Grant wrote: : : On 10/31/03 1:45 AM, "Dan Gaters" wrote: : : >> How can I stop animated ads in Safari? : > : > : : The developer's Web site, or maybe it was the installer read-me, : specifically says the current version of Pith Helmet won't work on : Panther. :-( In OmniWeb, you can configure it to limit the number of times it plays animated images (or even disable playing them). -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 1 17:26:19 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Profont and Mail.app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2E325F9B-0CA4-11D8-AFB1-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 01 Nov 2003, at 1144, steve harley wrote: > at 20031101, 09:39 +0100, they whom i call mark wrote: >> However, I did manage to get one of my fixed width fonts (Pragmata) >> to show up (one that previously wasn't showing up obviously) by >> running this on it: >> >> http://homepage.mac.com/mdouma46/dfont/dfont.html > > which is the same as (assuming a traditional Mac TrueType > font file, F): > > cp F/..namedfork/rsrc F.dfont Unfortunately, that didn't do the trick :( > if true, that's very odd, since there is literally no functional > difference between the formats I wish I knew 1) What magic mail.app uses to determine a "fixed width" font 2) Why using a monospaced font for all display results in a proportionally spaced display. I've got everything set to use the basic profont (not the isolatin1 version that I would prefer) because it doesn't get weirdly anti-aliased like the latin1 version. -- "Let's get back to syntax of procmail and forget the syntax of fools." - Don -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/4adb117a/smime.bin From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 1 17:34:36 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Panther Config Question In-Reply-To: <8E5BC044-0CBE-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> References: <9AF3DF80-07DD-11D8-A18B-003065C657AA@supernet.com> <8E5BC044-0CBE-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: at 20031101, 23:55 +0100, they whom i call j o a r wrote: >In any case, this is shaping up to be a very good >third-party-opportunity. An application that could change all file >type and protocol mappings would be a very convenient tool to have! a few third parties have tried (e.g., MisFox) but the the results have been so-so (i couldn't get MisFox to work, wrote the author and got a "dunno" in response).. a LaunchServices manager would be another useful app this is an interesting example of Scott's "dilemma" question -- configuration of core OS functionality as a third party opportunity.. i'd say Apple ought to deal with it instead, but it may instead take a third party to show Apple how well it can be done ... -- steve harley From josh at ssimr.com Sat Nov 1 18:34:28 2003 From: josh at ssimr.com (Josh Kuperman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Upgrading to panther on G3 Pismo Powerbook blew up in my face Message-ID: <20031102021742.GA23724@ssimr.com> I'm hopefully in the middle of upgrading to Panther on a G3 Pismo Powerbook. My first attempt stopped before it did anything. I had to boot into 9.2 and install the firmware upgrade. I went from 2.something to 4.18f if that seems right - I didn't write down notes. My second attempt is more confusing. It was going along quite well using the first disk. There were messages saying 30minutes, 20minutes left, etc. And nice progress bars. It was optimizing the drive with over 90% of the update done. I went into another room and the next time I came back, it looked like it rebooted to the OSX bootup screen with the spinner thing but nothing ever started. I can boot into 9.2 still, but I have no idea what is going on. I can't seem to get it to boot off any CDs. I'm wondering if I need something to update my CD (actually DVD drive) or if it is just defective - I can't tell. I'm tempting to try to use an external firewire drive and see what happens. The old pismo is probably getting long in the tooth - but maybe somebody has had a similar experience or perhaps my problem has nothing to do with the powerbook - and someone can tell me what is going on. -- Josh Kuperman josh@ssimr.com From kcall at mac.com Sat Nov 1 18:38:14 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin C.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Panther help Message-ID: <18132AF6-0CDC-11D8-B12A-00306574D7D4@mac.com> http://latourfl.com/panther/panther.html From rj at geekmail.cc Sat Nov 1 18:42:04 2003 From: rj at geekmail.cc (RJ Auburn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Fwd: Panther Mail IMAP vs CGP is SLOW Message-ID: <40FE24BA-0A25-11D8-83F4-00039391486C@geekmail.cc> Folks, A number of people over on the CommunigatePro e-mail list have been having some problems with the new version of Mail.App in panther. The problem that people are seeing is that IMAP downloads take a very long time to complete and seem to stall at various points. This is more noticeable on larger mail boxes as you might expect. Initial tests seem to show that this happens when connection with SSL enabled. From looking at tcpdump traces and server log files it looks like what happens is that the IMAPS server sends a reply, Mail.App waits 60s and then resets the SSL connection. If you would like to see the full thread on the communigate list go to http://mail.stalker.com/Lists/CGatePro/List.html and search for "Panther Mail IMAP vs CGP is SLOW" in the input form at the top of the page. It should return you a handful of results from the last day or so. Anyone got any ideas on what is going on here? If anyone from Apple has any ideas I would love to hear them so I can let the folks over on the Communigate list know what the problem seems to be and if it looks like a server problem or a bug in Mail.App. Thanks in advance, RJ Auburn Begin forwarded message: > From: RJ Auburn > Date: October 28, 2003 22:24:02 PST > To: "CommuniGate Pro Discussions" > Subject: Re: Panther Mail IMAP vs CGP is SLOW > Reply-To: "CommuniGate Pro Discussions" > > > A few more notes for the group: > > Creating a self signed cert and importing in in Mail.App does not > help, you still get the timeouts in the SSL connection. I also tried > changing the Obscure Settings-->TLS Sessions-->Time To Live to 30 > seconds from the default of 60 to see if that changed anything but no > such luck. The SSL connection still gets reset after 60 seconds. Just > incase anyone is interested the interesting log snippets are below. > > I am going to post some of this info onto the Omni-Group e-mail list > to see if I can get any responses from folks over there. I will let > you guys know what I find. > > RJ Auburn > > > 22:15:36.95 5 IMAP-00080([192.168.102.10]) TLS inp 23: (164) 0A 03 79 > 7D C5 12 58 18 C3 10 69 07 C1 23 20 35 8D 43 DD AF BC 74 C4 46 11 CD > 27 F6 70 BF B8 9D F5 C7 18 2C 97 F3 DA FC 2B 6A 67 D5 0C 66 > 22:15:36.95 5 IMAP-00080([192.168.102.10]) inp: 30 UID FETCH 9452:9527 > (INTERNALDATE UID RFC822.SIZE FLAGS BODY.PEEK[HEADER.FIELDS (date > subject from to message-id in-reply-to x-spam-flag)]) > 22:15:36.99 5 IMAP-00080([192.168.102.10]) out: * 937 FETCH > (INTERNALDATE "03-Oct-2003 22:28:25 +0000" UID 9452 RFC822.SIZE 9533 > FLAGS () BODY[HEADER.FIELDS (date subject from to message-id > in-reply-t > 22:15:36.99 5 IMAP-00080([192.168.102.10]) TLS out 23: (16148) 46 FF > 6F 28 94 4A 95 01 67 11 09 5C 46 9C 0C BF 6D 08 31 C6 EC 46 42 63 C9 > BE E4 EF AC 27 57 CE DE 07 CA F0 A3 F8 3B 41 54 DD AA 82 F5 > 22:15:36.99 5 IMAP-00080([192.168.102.10]) TLS out 23: (10393) 68 5C > FB 12 B4 D6 97 15 1A E3 43 64 1D 00 CA 46 89 E6 A5 C7 03 EC FD 94 5E > 8B B4 37 01 53 80 9C E8 8C 16 04 68 70 6B 6C C1 69 71 AF 8D > 22:16:37.15 5 IMAP-00080([192.168.102.10]) TLS inp 21: (22) C8 0D 9D > BA D3 BE F4 9B 36 CB A1 C7 4E 74 BD BD B4 70 76 73 04 30 > 22:16:37.15 4 IMAP-00080([192.168.102.10]) TLS closing alert received > 22:16:37.15 3 IMAP-00080([192.168.102.10]) read failed. Error Code=TLS > connection is being closed by peer > 22:16:37.15 2 IMAP-00080([192.168.102.10]) 'rj-rja@auburnfreaks.com' > disconnected ([192.168.102.10:53480]) > 22:16:37.15 4 IMAP-00080([192.168.102.10]) TLS connection is closing > 22:16:37.15 5 IMAP-00080([192.168.102.10]) TLS out 21: (22) C1 15 75 > 2C 5B E7 14 13 B0 43 A7 ED EC 67 34 B4 02 E9 9B F7 BC 30 > 22:16:37.15 2 TLS(62) session closed by IMAP-80, refCount=1 > 22:16:37.15 4 IMAP-00080([192.168.102.10]) closing connection > 22:16:37.15 4 IMAP-00080([192.168.102.10]) releasing stream > > > > On Oct 28, 2003, at 22:02, RJ Auburn wrote: > >> Roman, >> >> I ran tests without SSL and that seems to work without any problems >> (I was in the middle of this test when I got your e-mail ;-) >> >> When looking at the output of tcpdump during this it seems that the >> session just gets reset and Mail.App keeps reconnecting. If you would >> like I can send the tcpdump capture file to you off list. >> >> Has everyone else that has had problems been using SSL? >> >> Now whats interesting is that SSL works great when connecting to my >> geekmail.cc account. I am going to do some more testing and see what >> I can find. Maybe is has something to do with the default >> certificates that are used with communigate? (wild guess there) I do >> know that they made some changes to how SSL works in the Panther >> version as you now get fancy warning dialogs telling you that the SSL >> certificate may not be valid and if you want to continue. >> >> One thing to note is that this does not look to be too tightly tied >> to account size as I ran into this when trying to sync my home mail >> server that only has ~ 1000 messages and is around 30MB. The >> geekmail.cc account that I have been testing with is larger then >> that. >> >> RJ >> >> On Oct 28, 2003, at 18:10, Technical Support, Stalker Labs wrote: >> >>> on 29.10.03 3:06 AM, RJ Auburn at rj@geekmail.cc wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Attached is a log example of the delays. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>>> 17:14:02.39 5 IMAP-02213([66.127.83.188]) inp: 18 UID FETCH 833 >>>> BODY.PEEK[] >>>> 17:14:02.40 5 IMAP-02213([66.127.83.188]) out: * 833 FETCH (BODY[] >>>> {13153}\r\nReturn-Path: \r\nReceived: >>>> from >>>> [18.29.1.71] (HELO frink.w3.org)\r\n by voxeo.com (CommuniGate >>>> 17:14:02.40 5 IMAP-02213([66.127.83.188]) TLS out 23: (13230) A4 0F >>>> C3 13 D6 >>>> 63 4D 2A 27 5B E7 C4 A0 FE 3F 2C 1B 98 B2 4E 0F 32 5F 17 5B 06 14 >>>> DB BA C4 0C >>>> 0C 42 DF 54 31 B4 BE AA 96 18 AD DE 05 92 45 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 17:15:02.56 5 IMAP-02213([66.127.83.188]) TLS inp 21: (22) C6 39 05 >>>> 13 97 44 >>>> F7 84 08 3E 0A EC 4D B3 1B 76 0C 36 FA DE E6 F6 >>>> 17:15:02.56 4 IMAP-02213([66.127.83.188]) TLS closing alert received >>>> 17:15:02.56 3 IMAP-02213([66.127.83.188]) read failed. Error >>>> Code=TLS >>>> connection is being closed by peer >>> >>> No protocol errors, but there is a client who drops the connection >>> (after 1 >>> minute exactly). >>> >>> Can Mail.app work without SSL/TLS? See if it makes a difference if >>> you >>> disable it. From lomion at mac.com Sat Nov 1 18:45:53 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: More panther mail questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <77916F3A-0A64-11D8-84CB-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Oct 28, 2003, at 11:51 AM, Michael Grant wrote: > On 10/27/03 3:44 PM, "William Ehrich" wrote: > >>> Question 2 - The same friend is trying to create a "me and only me" >>> rule to flag any messages that were sent to his email address and >>> his email address only - is there a good way to do this? >> >> How about: >> >> To: contains his address >> To: does not contain a comma >> There is no CC: header > > I remember a few years ago the Internet e-mail addresses for Compuserve > users (apparently some kind of bridge from the Internet to their > internal > system) contained commas. Haven't seen anything like that recently--is > Compuserve even still around? > AOL owns Compuserve now. I don't recall their address scheme (I was around 13 or so when my mom let me get a compuserve account though). This was pre-internet really though... --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/d0f2d814/smime.bin From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 1 18:55:45 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Profont and Mail.app In-Reply-To: <2E325F9B-0CA4-11D8-AFB1-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <2E325F9B-0CA4-11D8-AFB1-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: at 20031101, 12:47 -0700, they whom i call Lukreme wrote: >> cp F/..namedfork/rsrc F.dfont > >Unfortunately, that didn't do the trick :( have you tried changing the value of NSFixedPitchFont in com.apple.mail.plist? (i noted the entry in Jaguar Mail -- your Mail may vary..) you'll probably have to first temporarily set the main viewer font to ProFont and look in the plist to see exactly how Mail thinks the name should read my guess is that there's some narrow criterion, such as a little-used flag in the font, that Mail is using to populate the fixed-width pop-up.. if so, it probably doesn't do any checking once the font name is in the plist -- steve harley From zbir at urbanape.com Sat Nov 1 19:28:24 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Panther Config Question In-Reply-To: <8E5BC044-0CBE-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> References: <9AF3DF80-07DD-11D8-A18B-003065C657AA@supernet.com> <8E5BC044-0CBE-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: <7D57691F-0CE1-11D8-BDDE-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Nov 1, 2003, at 5:55 PM, j o a r wrote: > On 2003-10-26, at 22.37, Scott Stevenson wrote: > >>> Why should I have to launch an app to change a System wide >>> preference. It should have stayed in System Preferences. >> System Preferences may seem like a logical choice for the technically >> inclined, but consumers won't necessarily make that connection, and >> may never find the preference. They think of the browser as the hub >> of internet access. > > Why not make the preference available in both places? > > A similar thing: Where do you set the preference to what happens when > you connect a digital camera via USB? iPhoto (like how we now set > default browser)? System preferences (like how we set prefs for blank > CDs and DVDs)? Wrong in both cases! - It's in Image Capture! I think > it's just weird, and inconsistent. I think that all these things > should be managed via a preference pane, or an Apple provided utility. "or an Apple provided utility." What, pray tell, is Image Capture? Zac From peter.apockotos at mac.com Sat Nov 1 19:30:27 2003 From: peter.apockotos at mac.com (Peter Apockotos) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> On Nov 1, 2003, at 5:37 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 4:12 PM -0600 11/1/03, Dave Schroeder wrote: >> Yes, he has decided that he's going to send every message as a >> graphic from now on, not even realizing fundamental flaws in his >> attempted, but tragically failed, comparison between his own childish >> behavior, and persons using S/MIME digital signatures. > > Childish behavior is insisting you have the right to clutter people's > mailbox with something they've said they do not wish to receive. > > It goes like this. > > Please don't send me that stuff > > I'm going to send it anyway because it has value to me > > It has no value to me, please don't send me that stuff > > I'm going to anyway because I find value in it > > Children continue with an action when they are asked to stop. > > You've been asked to stop. > > You've vocally declared you would not... and would ignore the pleas of > people asking nicely to please stop. > > I'll try one more time. > > Please stop sending me any of your smimes. I don't use them. I don't > want them. > > Thank you. > > mark Mark and everyone else in this world. Just because you ask a person to do something and they do not comply it does not mean you are right to continue on. That person has every right to refuse as you have to ask. I am so tired of when someone asks for something and when they don't get it they become a nuisance. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2375 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/d3c8eadc/smime.bin From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 1 19:44:16 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: iDisk file not updating in .mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031029, 13:42 -0500, they whom i call Jim Rankin wrote: >I mounted my iDisk and edited an html file that is part of my .mac >homepage web site, but when I go to the file through the web, the >changes are not reflected. When I display the updated file in >Safari by doing "File Open..." and opening it from the iDisk, the >changes are there. i recall Panther has the feature of caching WebDAV folders locally.. sounds like an issue with when this local "buffer" is flushed.. i would think it would be flushed when you unmount, at the very latest -- steve harley From zbir at urbanape.com Sat Nov 1 20:03:42 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Changes in the Finder's searching system under Panther? In-Reply-To: <7F7EE21E-0A58-11D8-94AE-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <8517749A-0A16-11D8-933D-0003938B8774@newsguy.com> <7F7EE21E-0A58-11D8-94AE-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <9B4315C6-0A78-11D8-BDDE-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Oct 29, 2003, at 4:40 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > So, is your return key broken? :) It actually came through properly delimited on my client. Zac -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/3f15da12/smime.bin From das at doit.wisc.edu Sat Nov 1 20:43:47 2003 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> Message-ID: <629805D9-0CEE-11D8-AF22-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> On Nov 1, 2003, at 8:58 PM, Peter Apockotos wrote: > Mark and everyone else in this world. > > Just because you ask a person to do something and they do not comply > it does not mean you are right to continue on. That person has every > right to refuse as you have to ask. I am so tired of when someone > asks for something and when they don't get it they become a nuisance. What Mark doesn't realize is that there are more people that just him on this list. Digital signatures have value, but he thinks he has some kind of authority or higher moral ground to ask - no, demand - that valid, standard digital signatures not to be sent simply because *he* perceives them to have no value, and on top of that, seems to think that the sender can somehow just not send them to only him at his request. Whether or not it is "good form", "appropriate", or "useful" (in quotes because they're all subjective in various ways) to include digital signatures to a casual quasi-public list is *completely beside the point*. Digital signatures can and should be just as integral to a message as the From field, Date, or Subject. Some might argue they're superfluous. Some might also argue that certain elements of the header are also superfluous. Digital signatures are going to quickly become a standard way of identifying the message sender, in any setting, casual or no. What really stunned me is some folks thinking they actually had some kind of standing to ask that they not be sent, as if their bogus "need" trumps the sender's right to include positively identifying features with the message. They keep moaning about "attachments", and then even use ill-conceived and incorrect analogies an a vain attempt to demonstrate their (non-)position. The fact that the digital signature is seen by their mail client as an "attachment", or handled inappropriately at their end, is incidental. A mail client that understands standard S/MIME digital signatures does NOT display the signature as an "attachment", but rather, presents the fact that a signature is present to the user in a meaningful way. For the record, I'll agree that today, right this second, on this list, digital signatures don't serve a critical purpose per se. But again, to me personally, neither does much of the header, many peoples' ridiculous sigs (let's talk about those "signatures" for a minute), and much of the message contents. This behavior should be handled in one of two ways: 1. By the listserver stripping it (I believe this is something perfectly within the discretion of the list and collective decision, and many lists do in fact do this); or 2. At the recipient's end. The one place it should NOT, and in fact cannot, be handled, because of the very nature of digital signatures, is at the sender's end. The sender has the ultimate right and responsibility to identify their message in an accepted, reliable, and meaningful fashion (I concede that there is an element of subjectivity to each of these criteria). S/MIME digital signatures are possibly the most accepted, emerging method for such identification. A small additional bit of information included with a message, that is coincidentally seen as an attachment by some mailers that do not yet understand digital signatures, is the price of moving forward. Perhaps this will encourage people to consider mailers than understand emerging digital signature standards in a meaningful way. - Dave From michael-winter at uiowa.edu Sat Nov 1 20:48:26 2003 From: michael-winter at uiowa.edu (Michael Winter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <7F29829A-0AFE-11D8-B27E-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> References: <70EA0F52-0A94-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <087DA636-0AF6-11D8-96BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> <7F29829A-0AFE-11D8-B27E-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> Message-ID: On Oct 30, 2003, at 11:28 AM, Michael Stearne wrote: > Speaking of Longhorn. The blatant rip-off of the Mac is still alive > and kicking at Microsoft. Look at the similarities between what > Panther offers today ( > http://imac.taxrecords.com/mstearne/foghorn/macscreenshot.jpg ) and > what Longhorn will "innovate" in 3 years: > http://imac.taxrecords.com/mstearne/foghorn/explorer.jpg . The > brushed steel, the search, the inset buttons, ..... I'm more interested in the under-the-hood and usability features. Based on a Gates keynote reviewed at , there are three big features in Longhorn. 1. "A new graphics and presentation engine known as Avalon." As far as I can tell this is essentially equivalent to Quartz Extreme which we've had for about a year. 2. "A new communications architecture known as Indigo." Reading the MS descriptions of Indigo doesn't tell me anything more than its a set of "technologies for building and running connected systems." Which pretty much tells me nothing. Can anybody clearly articulate what the end-user gets out of this? What will it allow me to do that I can't do now? 3. "A new file system known as WinFS." This basically add the power of a relational database to the file system. It has a lot of potential, but unless you can have it keep track of removable media as well, I don't see a real big advantage for home use. And as mentioned, these are features for Longhorn in 2005 or later. If Apple continues with the pace of one major revision every year, Longhorn could be competing with Mac OS 10.5. Which makes me wonder, any rumors on what's being worked on for 10.4? -Mike From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 1 21:26:30 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: <36DCAC70-0AFE-11D8-8092-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> References: <36DCAC70-0AFE-11D8-8092-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> Message-ID: at 20031030, 11:26 -0600, they whom i call Michael Winter wrote: >On Oct 30, 2003, at 9:15 AM, mark wrote: > >>Well, thats where we differ. Slightly. I don't think Apple NEEDED >>to thank them, I'm just suggesting that they could have made a >>smarter play by doing something (I'm sure it would hardly have >>taken much) to ensure that there was no smoke. > >I can't say I completely disagree with your point, but if they thank >Proteron, shouldn't they also thank Microsoft? no because Proteron added to the Mac platform by showing that Apple could do better.. Apple apparently agreed.. there are several other app-switching UIs it could have copied, but it copied Proteron's i agree with mark's point too -- it's more about Apple, or perhaps about the general state of business.. because of that i think it's good that Proteron's memo got out, even if it is restrainedly whiney, because i think more people might stop and think about what's going wrong here -- steve harley From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 1 21:35:31 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NiceBigAttachment.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 8010 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/7a245e0e/NiceBigAttachment.pdf From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 1 21:37:30 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: <6F96C64D-07FA-11D8-8AC4-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <6F96C64D-07FA-11D8-8AC4-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: at 20031026, 13:22 -0800, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: >In fact, the only real change since Jaguar is the appearance, which >arguably brings it more inline with the rest of the UI. it's not just the UI, it is the ordering.. i give Proteron credit for taking a risk to demonstrate that Apple's original design choices for app-switching (dock-based, launch order) could be improved i remember long ago trying to explain why use order was better for app-switching.. most people here didn't seem to think it important, but apparently Apple did -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 1 21:39:03 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031030, 16:43 +0100, they whom i call mark wrote: >Anyone seeing app crashes when using contextual menus ? I'm getting >occasional crashes in Safari, Mail, Address Book and iCal when doing >CM operations. if you have any non-Apple CMs installed, have you tried isolating a specific one? i'm thinning my CMs for Panther right now, but would still like to use: Big Cat MP3 Info Symbolic Linker XRay CM Reveal in Path Finder -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 1 21:41:17 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: This List In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031030, 08:36 -0800, they whom i call Mark F. Murphy wrote: >Is it just me, or is the list not working quite right? > >I'm getting messages several days old and all over the map. it seems to be in a stall/hurry cycle.. during the stalls, only a few messages get through.. during the hurries, older messages will suddenly be released.. i've also had at least one message dropped completely -- steve harley From bronski at bronski.net Sat Nov 1 21:53:59 2003 From: bronski at bronski.net (Christoph Rummel) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5317A408-0B21-11D8-AED5-000393A99D5C@bronski.net> On 30.10.2003, at 16:43, mark wrote: > Anyone seeing app crashes when using contextual menus ? I'm getting > occasional crashes in Safari, Mail, Address Book and iCal when doing > CM operations. > > Vague I know, but its a notion thats gradually developed. I'm getting > a lot more app crashes than pre-Panther and it took a while to > register that they are overwhelmingly associated with contextual > menus. Yes, with Safari and Mail. Especially when trying to create folders on an IMAP-server, so my first thought was it had somthing to do with Mails IMAP-implementation. But I think you're right - it was contextual menues almost every time I can remember. From soft at bdanube.com Sat Nov 1 22:00:53 2003 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Panther & IceCoffee? Message-ID: Has anyone tried IceCoffee (or whatever the capitalization is on that) with Panther? Michael -- English is essentially an imprecise dialect of Java, without the object orientation. - Julian Morrison From das at doit.wisc.edu Sat Nov 1 22:03:55 2003 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> Message-ID: <37787E6E-0CF8-11D8-999B-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> On Nov 1, 2003, at 11:26 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > What you don't yet grasp is that we couldn't possibly care less that you choose to send your message as a PDF. It only continues to prove beyond any shadow of doubt that you fundamentally misunderstand the purpose and nature of digital signatures. - Dave From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 1 22:19:32 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <37787E6E-0CF8-11D8-999B-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <37787E6E-0CF8-11D8-999B-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: At 11:48 PM -0600 11/1/03, Dave Schroeder wrote: >On Nov 1, 2003, at 11:26 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >> > >What you don't yet grasp is that we couldn't possibly care less that >you choose to send your message as a PDF. It only continues to prove >beyond any shadow of doubt that you fundamentally misunderstand the >purpose and nature of digital signatures. What it proves is you don't give a damn about the list and the issues you bring forth. Everyone here can read text... so it's universal... everyone deals with the same medium.... no matter what the length or the bandwidth. However, attachments are a different issue. It's *not* universal... not matter how noble your cause. It's not your intent that's at issue. It's the effect, in the case of non-universal client attachment protocol, on the subscribers. You claim utility. Others claim problem. You should take note that some people have an issue with it.... as a person who's asking *all* members of the list to accept *your* ways. In order for *all* members of the list to accept your ways, there has to be a convenient way for subscribers to not feel any pain. At this point in time, there is not such a way... not matter how much you'd like it to be... or no matter how much you think it ought to be. So, the polite thing to do is to practice self restraint.... because you realize everyone can't be a part of your awesome power at the moment. No one misunderstands the promise of digital signatures... Just not everyone's there with you yet... And you insist and expect that everyone is. And that's wrong. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From seiryu at comcast.net Sat Nov 1 22:21:39 2003 From: seiryu at comcast.net (Nick Zitzmann) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 30, 2003, at 12:45 PM, steve harley wrote: > if you have any non-Apple CMs installed, have you tried > isolating a specific one? i'm thinning my CMs for Panther > right now, but would still like to use: [...] > Symbolic Linker SymbolicLinker works just fine in 10.3... I've opened countless contextual menus in 10.3 with it installed and haven't had any problems with it. The only other CMs I use, FileUtils and GrimRipper, also appear to work fine. Nick Zitzmann AIM/iChat: dragonsdontsleep Check out my software page: http://seiryu.home.comcast.net/ S/MIME signature available upon request "I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone." - Bjarne Stroustrup From soft at bdanube.com Sat Nov 1 22:40:43 2003 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 30, 2003, at 2:45 PM, steve harley wrote: > if you have any non-Apple CMs installed, have you tried > isolating a specific one? i'm thinning my CMs for Panther > right now, but would still like to use: > > Big Cat > [snip] > Symbolic Linker If you find you have any trouble with Symbolic Linker, it's a piece of cake to write a script for Big Cat that does the same thing. I just wish BC would enable hierarchical submenus.... Michael -- I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners. - Berkeley Breathed From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 1 22:45:12 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Panther & IceCoffee? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C6F27F8-0CFE-11D8-B6EB-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 01 Nov 2003, at 22:46, Michael Grant wrote: > Has anyone tried IceCoffee (or whatever the capitalization is on that) > with Panther? I keep meaning to, then I forget. then i remember it uses APE and I hesitate. Then I forget again. -- Heisenberg's only uncertainty was what pub to vomit in next and Jung fancied Freud's mother too. -- Jared Earle -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/b6e01ed7/smime.bin From toble at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Nov 1 22:51:46 2003 From: toble at blueyonder.co.uk (Toby Morris) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: please help Message-ID: <15363558-0CFF-11D8-9B96-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> Is there any chance of some sort of response - now i don't even know if my email is working! It would be very nice to confirm that ichat works here or not - but it really needs another to check it out. the ichat address is toble@mac.com - thanks! From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 1 22:59:12 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> Message-ID: On 01 Nov 2003, at 22:26, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > But no one cares if you send your messages as pdfs. It's stupid and childish, but NO ONE CARES. You are expending a lot of effort to repeatedly prove you are missing the point. -- There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/b90a4bc7/smime.bin From lists at michaelscheurer.com Sat Nov 1 23:02:19 2003 From: lists at michaelscheurer.com (Michael Scheurer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: This List In-Reply-To: <1067698727.5173.100.camel@anthem> Message-ID: on 2/11/03 1:58 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > I have no idea what's going on or whether this has anything to do with > the list's problems, but I do notice that it's running a very old copy > of Mailman. The site admins should at least upgrade to 2.0.13, if not > 2.1. Probably not coping with the amount of attachments being send since the release of Panther... Michael -- Mac-Oz, all Australian Macintosh Virtual Community To join, send email to From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 1 23:11:35 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031102, 00:13 -0600, they whom i call Michael Grant wrote: >If you find you have any trouble with Symbolic Linker, it's a piece >of cake to write a script for Big Cat that does the same thing. I >just wish BC would enable hierarchical submenus.... good point on the workaround, even though Nick says Symbolic Linker works fine, i've had a thought that i'd like a version which asks where the link should be put -- so i take it Big Cat works fine in Panther? -- steve harley From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 1 23:14:09 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <629805D9-0CEE-11D8-AF22-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <629805D9-0CEE-11D8-AF22-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: On 01 Nov 2003, at 21:38, Dave Schroeder wrote: > Digital signatures can and should be just as integral to a message as > the From field, Date, or Subject. Some might argue they're > superfluous. Some might also argue that certain elements of the header > are also superfluous. Digital signatures are going to quickly become a > standard way of identifying the message sender, in any setting, casual > or no. I certainly hope so. It will make spam fighting a bit easier. If I can get everyone I know to use S/MIME signatures then I can mark any non signed message as suspicious. Sounds like a BIG step forward to me. Who needs secured SMTP if we have signed mail? I could remove all my China and Korea blocks. I'd no longer have host.deny errors specifically targetting > For the record, I'll agree that today, right this second, on this > list, digital signatures don't serve a critical purpose per se. They might speed someone's adoption of Panther. > The one place it should NOT, and in fact cannot, be handled, because > of the very nature of digital signatures, is at the sender's end. The > sender has the ultimate right and responsibility to identify their > message in an accepted, reliable, and meaningful fashion (I concede > that there is an element of subjectivity to each of these criteria). > S/MIME digital signatures are possibly the most accepted, emerging > method for such identification. A small additional bit of information > included with a message, that is coincidentally seen as an attachment > by some mailers that do not yet understand digital signatures, is the > price of moving forward. Perhaps this will encourage people to > consider mailers than understand emerging digital signature standards > in a meaningful way. Bravo. -- I listen to the wind, to the wind of my soul -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/fc7f665f/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 1 23:25:44 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Sherlock died? Message-ID: I've been unable to load any of the sherlock plugins all day (using Panther). Also, my FIL has had the same problem (different network connection). It spins and spins saying "loading Flights" or whatever for a few minutes, then simply stops and leaves and empty white screen. -- "Don't be nice. It's Creepy." Tendo Akane -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/a7b4204c/smime.bin From toble at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Nov 1 23:44:41 2003 From: toble at blueyonder.co.uk (Toby Morris) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: ichat Message-ID: <1BF0FCE7-0CFA-11D8-9B96-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> Help! Is there anyone online who has a moment to help me check ichat settings- I would like someone to try to open an ichat session with me at toble@mac.com Cheers T From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 1 23:50:34 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <37787E6E-0CF8-11D8-999B-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: On 01 Nov 2003, at 23:03, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 11:48 PM -0600 11/1/03, Dave Schroeder wrote: >> On Nov 1, 2003, at 11:26 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: >> >>> >> >> What you don't yet grasp is that we couldn't possibly care less that >> you choose to send your message as a PDF. It only continues to prove >> beyond any shadow of doubt that you fundamentally misunderstand the >> purpose and nature of digital signatures. > > What it proves is you don't give a damn about the list and the issues > you bring forth. > > Everyone here can read text... so it's universal... everyone deals > with the same medium.... no matter what the length or the bandwidth. > > However, attachments are a different issue. PDF attachments? Yes, I agree. For some people, they will need to launch a separate program like Acrobat or preview just to view your message. Text attachments like digital signatures? No, I don't agree. First off, in practically any mail client, the attachment of the s/mime is seen as an attachment and simply appears as a icon of a document with a name "smime.p7s." that's it. If you are using a mail client that is so old that it doesn't understand mime attachments at all, then the problem is on your end. MIME has been around forever, and any decent client should understand the attachment, even if it doesn't understand the signature. > It's *not* universal... not matter how noble your cause. It is as universal as anything else having to do with mail. How old is the MIME RFC? 10 years? I think it was 1993 when the first MIME RFC was adopted, but it could have been 1992... > It's not your intent that's at issue. no, it's the impact of the signatures on someone who uses a mail client that doesn't understand signatures. that impact is a icon named "smime.p7s" and you are saying that impact is unreasonably burdensome. > It's the effect, in the case of non-universal client attachment > protocol, on the subscribers. Not all mail clients will hide the List- headers: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussions of Mac OS X List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Does this mean the list should not send them? Some people find any signature to be annoying, so shoudl the list strip out everything after the "^-- $" marker? > You should take note that some people have an issue with it.... as a > person who's asking *all* members of the list to accept *your* ways. > > In order for *all* members of the list to accept your ways, there has > to be a convenient way for subscribers to not feel any pain. PAIN? What pain? > At this point in time, there is not such a way... not matter how much > you'd like it to be... or no matter how much you think it ought to be. Upgrade to a mail client that understands s/mime. They are legion. > So, the polite thing to do is to practice self restraint.... because > you realize everyone can't be a part of your awesome power at the > moment. Or the polite thing to do is to make the decision that signing your messages in a verifiable way is worth your time, and that if more people start doing it, well, that's a good thing that should be encouraged. > And you insist and expect that everyone is. No, just that the "penalty" is insignificant. What software are you using that makes the s/mime signature such and issue? it isn't smart enough to insert a Mailer header. -- There's nothing to do, so you just stay in bed [ah, poor thing] Why live in the world when you can live in your head? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031101/6603def6/smime.bin From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Sun Nov 2 00:19:12 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan.Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Lukreme" wrote: > but NO ONE CARES. Have you taken a list-wide poll? d*g From mark at imap-partners.net Sun Nov 2 00:40:50 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <843680C6-0B24-11D8-8923-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> On 30 Oct 2003, at 21:45, steve harley wrote: > if you have any non-Apple CMs installed, have you tried > isolating a specific one? yeah, that was going to be my next move. Was just checking to see if anybody else is seeing anything. > i'm thinning my CMs for Panther > right now, but would still like to use: > > Big Cat > MP3 Info > Symbolic Linker > XRay CM > Reveal in Path Finder I've got four of those five myself, plus: PGPcontext TerminalHerePlugin CopyPath NoteBookCMPlugin The crashes occur "after" the CM operation. A good one this evening is using the "open link in new Tab" CM in Safari. Thats got about a 20% bomb rate at the moment. mark. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2373 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/99870f51/smime.bin From mark at imap-partners.net Sun Nov 2 00:49:35 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: NAT and FTP In-Reply-To: <425763.1067546330686.JavaMail.cwilbur@mac.com> References: <425763.1067546330686.JavaMail.cwilbur@mac.com> Message-ID: On 30 Oct 2003, at 21:38, Charlton Wilbur wrote: > FTP is a protocol designed before the days of NAT, and shows it. thanks for a very informative post Charlton. Thing is, I've got passive FTP set on both machines and still no dice. mark -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2373 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/271fdeb8/smime.bin From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Sun Nov 2 00:50:58 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: iDisk file not updating in .mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 29, 2003, at 8:15 PM, steve harley wrote: > i recall Panther has the feature of caching WebDAV folders > locally.. sounds like an issue with when this local "buffer" > is flushed.. i would think it would be flushed when you > unmount, at the very latest > Unmounting seems to have done the trick, so I guess this was it. Thanks. At the very least, this seems like a documentation bug. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Sun Nov 2 01:12:28 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:08 2005 Subject: Expose is slow (?) In-Reply-To: <7D2960D7-0B14-11D8-A6DB-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <69DA9A6A-0893-11D8-A3D3-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> <3DC89A64-0AFA-11D8-A67A-0003930ECB56@mac.com> <8B003E91-0AFE-11D8-9B73-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <7D2960D7-0B14-11D8-A6DB-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On Oct 30, 2003, at 3:06 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > but I have about 15 (had 2 dozen before) and it is much much > snappier... Perhaps it drops off dramatically somewhere between 15 and 24 apps open? How many windows were open in each case? Could be the algorithm breaks down for this number of windows, or maybe you're pegging some kind of memory constraint. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html From scott at maxify.com Sun Nov 2 01:27:24 2003 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Clean installs are good (Re: Panther system-wide crashes) In-Reply-To: <70389C05-0B02-11D8-9E6D-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> References: <9F4EF7EC-0946-11D8-A167-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> <5F96D934-0AE4-11D8-B2D7-000393DB5348@mac.com> <70389C05-0B02-11D8-9E6D-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> Message-ID: On Oct 30, 2003, at 9:56 AM, J Michel Metz wrote: > I have to say, though, at the risk of sounding like a heretic: aside > from some of the "coolness" factor of features like fast-user > switching and expose, Panther has failed to impress me. Maybe it depends on what you do with your computer. I can't imagine going back. Speed boosts all over, polish/refinements everywhere, Finder revamp, unix updates and vastly improved development tools. I can't believe how much Mail has improved. I wonder what features people actually want? It seems like all anyone could talk about for a while was how much the Mac need fast user switching, and now we have it. The biggest remaining issue seems to be the Finder going off into spin land, which admittedly is a big one. > Breaking Java, FTP issues, systemwide crashes, Mail and Safari bugs, > slowdowns as well as the list of other issues that others have brought > up here on this very list, I can't help but wonder if Apple pulled a > Microsoft (letting Marketing drive release dates as opposed to > technology). I personally haven't experienced anything described here, but I always do a clean install and I don't install weird hacks (not saying you do). In an ideal world, it wouldn't matter if you do a clean install or upgrade, but I don't think we (the software industry) are there yet. As far as the release date, it seems they may have actually finished earlier than originally expected. I don't think it was an issue of trying to cram a release into a certain week. But I don't know for sure. Regardless, it's not realistic to expect a major release of an operating system (or hardware) to ship without new bugs. I remember buying a Blue G3 on the first day they came out and it kept locking up due to problems with the Rage driver. Incredibly frustrating, and this is something that should have been found earlier. Unless you're developing for a game console, you don't control the environment, so you can't predict every user scenario. This becomes amazingly clear once you start writing software. And if you hang out at places people go to resolve problems, guess what -- you'll find problems. It's not possible to gauge how prevalent a problem is by going to a public forum. The one problem I've encountered is my printer can no longer be seen when plugged into my cheapie unpowered USB hub. But I only tried once. I may give it another whirl. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From steve at paper-ape.com Sun Nov 2 01:41:59 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Panther system-wide crashes In-Reply-To: <2747CCB8-0B14-11D8-BFFD-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <9F4EF7EC-0946-11D8-A167-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> <5F96D934-0AE4-11D8-B2D7-000393DB5348@mac.com> <70389C05-0B02-11D8-9E6D-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> <2747CCB8-0B14-11D8-BFFD-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031030, 20:03 +0000, they whom i call Matt wrote: >Haven't seen them. >[...] >Haven't seen them. >[...] >Haven't seen them. >[...] >Haven't seen them. i haven't seen any Panther problems (i'm not running it yet), but at least Java, RAM & FireWire drive problems are well documented.. those in themselves reflect poorly on Apple's release hygiene >>I can't help but wonder if Apple pulled a Microsoft (letting >>Marketing drive release dates as opposed to technology). >[...] >You did notice that they said it was to be released by year end. >They released it two months before. i've long been schooled in "under-promise & over-deliver" -- what makes you think that it wasn't, at least in part, a marketing strategy to release Panther "early" (boosting holiday sales, showing up MS, etc.)? from post-WWDC reports it has long seemed likely that Panther could be released in September or October -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Sun Nov 2 01:43:26 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <087DA636-0AF6-11D8-96BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <70EA0F52-0A94-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <087DA636-0AF6-11D8-96BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031030, 11:28 -0500, they whom i call Lawrence Sica wrote: > OS X on the other hand seems to be like open up a pile of windows >and bounce back and forth, but only use the space the windows needs, >which should be as little as possible. Does that seem right? yes about piling up windows, but no about only using the space the window needs.. consider metal.. it may be restrained compared to some Windows UI, but it's still more space than the window needs.. ignoring metal, Aqua is very space-efficient -- steve harley From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sun Nov 2 01:49:51 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <70EA0F52-0A94-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <087DA636-0AF6-11D8-96BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> <7F29829A-0AFE-11D8-B27E-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> Message-ID: <0DB6F972-0D19-11D8-8868-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> On Oct 30, 2003, at 9:30 PM, Michael Winter wrote: > Which makes me wonder, any rumors on what's being worked on for 10.4? Three letters for you, buster: P V C j. From toble at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Nov 2 02:24:23 2003 From: toble at blueyonder.co.uk (Toby Morris) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Matt Message-ID: Sorry, lost you - please try again T From zbir at urbanape.com Sun Nov 2 03:01:10 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: whatever you do, don't do this In-Reply-To: <2953B995-0B3D-11D8-B4BD-00306574D7D4@mac.com> References: <2953B995-0B3D-11D8-B4BD-00306574D7D4@mac.com> Message-ID: On Oct 30, 2003, at 7:57 PM, Kevin C. wrote: > Do not accidently select a .mov or .mp3 file i ColumnView that lives > on someone else's iDisk/Public folder. > Panther Finder still blocks and locks for previewing until the file is > completely downloaded. > > If you know you are to pull down a multi-media file from someone's > iDisk, be sure to set the Finder view to icon before you select the > file. Or just turn off Preview functionality. View -> Show view options... For column view windows, there's a checkbox to disable Preview column. Zac -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/60da4cd4/smime.bin From mark at imap-partners.net Sun Nov 2 03:13:47 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: smime.p7s In-Reply-To: References: <8711A85E-07FA-11D8-BF91-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <9C4F935A-0AE9-11D8-8923-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <94840454-0B48-11D8-B108-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <91608118-0B8E-11D8-8923-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> On 31 Oct 2003, at 6:28, William Ehrich wrote: > The smime.p7s signature attachments are about 2400 bytes, compared to > 187 bytes for a pgp.sig file. Are they that much more secure? They are not ANY more secure per se. Just different. I hadn't noticed the size diff myself but that is significant. The S/MIME stuff probably needs about 2KB for Outlook compatibility (Joke). mark. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2373 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/964f8dab/smime.bin From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sun Nov 2 03:32:51 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: <8D3E8818-0B9D-11D8-A13D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <8D3E8818-0B9D-11D8-A13D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: > Hang on. You don't speak for all non-designers. He doesn't speak for anyone but himself. And you know what they say about opinions. I mean, read Macintouch. j. From charlesd at newsguy.com Sun Nov 2 03:36:12 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: firewire 800 drives & panther: not good buds Message-ID: <774C2798-0BA6-11D8-906F-0003938B8774@newsguy.com> just a word of warning. From zbir at urbanape.com Sun Nov 2 04:06:56 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D951F84-0BB1-11D8-BDDE-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Oct 31, 2003, at 4:19 AM, Dan Gaters wrote: > "j o a r" wrote: > >> but I agree with you that if Apple are going to enter a market >> segment and compete with third-party developers, they should make a >> best of breed application. > > Here's the test for those so dismissive of this issue, has any ISV > entered > into a market segment *after* Apple introduced a product for free > there? Path Finder? Zac -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/630764b4/smime.bin From ehrich at mninter.net Sun Nov 2 04:31:44 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: PithHelmet (was: Safari questions) Message-ID: >> > How can I stop animated ads in Safari? > >Dan Gaters suggested PithHelmet, reminding me that it's something I >forgot to update when moving from X2 (Apple Macintosh OSX 10.2.6 >"Jaguar") PithHelmet doesn't work with Panther yet. -- Bill Ehrich From jared at 23x.net Sun Nov 2 05:00:09 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9D3EDB51-0D32-11D8-8BC9-000A2791CF7C@23x.net> On Nov 1, 2003, at 11:57 PM, Rick Sanford wrote: > [1] I think that dell is not smart, just greedy, and driven by fear, > like intel, and having a working knowledge of, but no interest in, > their customers. Dell make nice servers. I'm just ordering 3 more. /me dons asbestos. -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "I've got the key to the gates of paradise, but I've got too many SPORKs" From ssobek at stevesobek.net Sun Nov 2 05:51:02 2003 From: ssobek at stevesobek.net (Steve Sobek) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: OS release problems In-Reply-To: References: <9F4EF7EC-0946-11D8-A167-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> <5F96D934-0AE4-11D8-B2D7-000393DB5348@mac.com> <70389C05-0B02-11D8-9E6D-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> <2747CCB8-0B14-11D8-BFFD-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <761E50FB-0D3A-11D8-9395-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> It's always been a part of just about every OS release, Apple or MS or anyone, to have problems with the initial release, and even later. For the vast majority of people(including me), Panther has seemed very stable and worthwhile, and is getting great reviews. It's a tradeoff between releasing something, or fixing everything forever and never delivering the product. If any *.0 release was perfect, there never would be later updates to the system, and that's something we've *never* seen. As Jobs famously told original Apple developers (at least in that movie, "Pirates of Silicon Valley"), "Real artists ship." Also, see: http://www.osxfaq.com/Editorial/sobek/index12.ws On Oct 30, 2003, at 5:58 PM, steve harley wrote: > but at least Java, RAM & FireWire drive problems are > well documented.. those in themselves reflect poorly on > Apple's release hygiene From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 2 06:03:54 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <9D3EDB51-0D32-11D8-8BC9-000A2791CF7C@23x.net> References: <9D3EDB51-0D32-11D8-8BC9-000A2791CF7C@23x.net> Message-ID: <9B7DDD42-0D3B-11D8-A57A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 2 Nov 2003, at 12:46, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > On Nov 1, 2003, at 11:57 PM, Rick Sanford wrote: >> [1] I think that dell is not smart, just greedy, and driven by fear, >> like intel, and having a working knowledge of, but no interest in, >> their customers. > > Dell make nice servers. I'm just ordering 3 more. Dell don't REALLY make nice servers. Apple doesn't make servers bigger than 1U. M From joar at joar.com Sun Nov 2 06:25:44 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Panther Config Question In-Reply-To: <7D57691F-0CE1-11D8-BDDE-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> References: <9AF3DF80-07DD-11D8-A18B-003065C657AA@supernet.com> <8E5BC044-0CBE-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <7D57691F-0CE1-11D8-BDDE-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Message-ID: On 2003-11-02, at 04.06, Zachery Bir wrote: >> A similar thing: Where do you set the preference to what happens when >> you connect a digital camera via USB? iPhoto (like how we now set >> default browser)? System preferences (like how we set prefs for blank >> CDs and DVDs)? Wrong in both cases! - It's in Image Capture! I think >> it's just weird, and inconsistent. I think that all these things >> should be managed via a preference pane, or an Apple provided >> utility. > > "or an Apple provided utility." What, pray tell, is Image Capture? I'll try again: An Apple provided preference pane or utility *provided for this purpose only*. Not spread out over any and all of the Apple provided pref panes, utilities and applications. Get it? j o a r From ssobek at stevesobek.net Sun Nov 2 07:25:51 2003 From: ssobek at stevesobek.net (Steve Sobek) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48F38F62-0BC1-11D8-93BB-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> I'll be the first to say that some of Apple's programs are not as good as other options, but with iTunes, I second that. Name another jukebox on the Mac that is as good. There simply isn't one. I can't even name any others off the top of my head. It is the best of breed. -S > >> iTunes is not best of breed. > > No kiddin'. Name one other app that does what iTunes does and is > better. > From soft at bdanube.com Sun Nov 2 08:50:06 2003 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25567736-0D53-11D8-B533-000A27984144@bdanube.com> On Nov 2, 2003, at 12:57 AM, steve harley wrote: > so i take > it Big Cat works fine in Panther? I haven't really put it through its paces, but so far so good. Michael -- "The road to truth is long, and lined the entire way with annoying bastards." - Alexander Jablokov From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sun Nov 2 08:59:00 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: <8D951F84-0BB1-11D8-BDDE-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> References: <8D951F84-0BB1-11D8-BDDE-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Message-ID: <82B8A8D0-0D54-11D8-9597-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> >> Here's the test for those so dismissive of this issue, has any ISV >> entered >> into a market segment *after* Apple introduced a product for free >> there? > > Path Finder? (Can you all people stop it? Danson needs to live in _that_ world of him. The doctor said he could get violent when confronted with real facts). Danson, don't pay attention to all these jerks trying to bust your bullshit bubble with all their real life examples of software made to compete with Apple's own. They are just _bad_ people _bad_. (people, really, step back away s-l-o-w-l-y, don't look him at the eyes, ignore the trolling attempts and just whistle some nice tune... eh... Matt? hey Matt!? MATT, NOT! Not with the aluminum baseball bat! NO! DON'T! ... -ouch- ... ah well, nevermind... -eeek, that looks really nasty-) j. From soft at bdanube.com Sun Nov 2 09:01:38 2003 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <37787E6E-0CF8-11D8-999B-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: On Nov 2, 2003, at 1:03 AM, Lukreme wrote: >> At this point in time, there is not such a way... not matter how much >> you'd like it to be... or no matter how much you think it ought to >> be. > > Upgrade to a mail client that understands s/mime. They are legion. Precisely here is where you start to get unreasonable. Many people have valid reasons for preferring Entourage, which is not exactly an obscure choice. Michael -- We paid $3 billion for these television stations. We decide what the news is. The news is what we tell you it is. - David Boylan, WTVT (Fox) From gfoster at gfoster.com Sun Nov 2 09:07:25 2003 From: gfoster at gfoster.com (Glen Foster) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Panther on USB-less G# Message-ID: <86brru7lth.fsf@gfoster.com> Folks, Panther refuses to install on my beige G3, has anyone gotten this to work with a PCI USB card? Does this mean that ADB is no longer supported? TIA, -- Glen Foster From soft at bdanube.com Sun Nov 2 09:13:31 2003 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Panther & IceCoffee? In-Reply-To: <5C6F27F8-0CFE-11D8-B6EB-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <5C6F27F8-0CFE-11D8-B6EB-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <649AEA8F-0D56-11D8-B533-000A27984144@bdanube.com> On Nov 2, 2003, at 12:32 AM, Lukreme wrote: > I keep meaning to, then I forget. then i remember it uses APE and I > hesitate. Unsanity is claiming that some of its "haxies" (hate that word) are Panther-compatible, so presumably APE itself is OK, unless it just bothers you on principle. Personally I never had any problems with APE on Jag. Michael -- We have people from every planet on the earth in this state. - Gray Davis, former governor of California From joar at joar.com Sun Nov 2 09:29:47 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Panther on USB-less G# In-Reply-To: <86brru7lth.fsf@gfoster.com> References: <86brru7lth.fsf@gfoster.com> Message-ID: <71307618-0D58-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Panther is only supported on those computers that shipped with built in USB. Read the system requirements: j o a r On 2003-11-02, at 17.54, Glen Foster wrote: > Panther refuses to install on my beige G3, has anyone gotten this to > work with a PCI USB card? Does this mean that ADB is no longer > supported? From charlesd at newsguy.com Sun Nov 2 09:35:25 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <37787E6E-0CF8-11D8-999B-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: At 10:52 -0600 02/11/2003, Michael Grant wrote: >On Nov 2, 2003, at 1:03 AM, Lukreme wrote: > >>>At this point in time, there is not such a way... not matter how >>>much you'd like it to be... or no matter how much you think it >>>ought to be. >> >>Upgrade to a mail client that understands s/mime. They are legion. list the top five Mac email clients which _don't_ show the stupid smime.p7 thingie as an attachment. Eudora, for one, doesn't seem to. Perhaps it does and I merely haven't seen it. If so, pray point out how to get major clients such as, well, Eudora, to _not_ treat this crap as an attachment. Or not. Your choice, of course. > >Precisely here is where you start to get unreasonable. Many people >have valid reasons for preferring Entourage, which is not exactly an >obscure choice. > The part I particularly like is where he's telling _everyone_ that they _must_ move to a new mail client for _his_ convenience. Yeah. Right. Especially as the whole point behind having the damn fool smime.p7 thingie is to reliably ID email, something which is hardly necessary for mail _sent to a mailing list_. Yes, it's useful for work. Yes, it's useful between individuals. No, it's not appropriate on mailing lists. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From johannes at connected.ch Sun Nov 2 09:43:21 2003 From: johannes at connected.ch (Johannes Vetsch) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: firewire 800 drives & panther: not good buds In-Reply-To: <774C2798-0BA6-11D8-906F-0003938B8774@newsguy.com> Message-ID: It's not only FW 800 Problem it also crashed my FW 400 200GB external. Here are some more information on this pretty bad topic. http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?128@151.gmGoah5ckOH.4@.599b4a59 http://www.macfixit.com/ regards johannes Am Freitag, 31.10.03 um 14:31 Uhr schrieb Charles Dyer: > just a word of warning. > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From charlesd at newsguy.com Sun Nov 2 09:45:51 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Panther on USB-less G# In-Reply-To: <86brru7lth.fsf@gfoster.com> References: <86brru7lth.fsf@gfoster.com> Message-ID: At 11:54 -0500 02/11/2003, Glen Foster wrote: >Folks, > >Panther refuses to install on my beige G3, has anyone gotten this to >work with a PCI USB card? Does this mean that ADB is no longer >supported? the only methods I know of to install Panther on a beige G3 are: 1 pull the hard drive, put it into a machine which Panther _will_ install on, install Panther, and then replace the drive 2 pull the drive from a machine which has Panther installed, pull the CD from the beige and replace it with the other drive, boot from the new drive and Carbon Copy Clone the new drive to the old There are, ah, problems, with both approaches. And Panther simply Does Strange Things? on beiges... sometimes. And, as beiges ain't supported, you can't ask Apple about any problems, or rather you can but they won't answer. ADB is still supported. B&W G3s have ADB. It's just that ADB isn't _well_ supported. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From listor at melin.org Sun Nov 2 09:51:37 2003 From: listor at melin.org (Joacim Melin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Panther on USB-less G# In-Reply-To: <71307618-0D58-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> References: <86brru7lth.fsf@gfoster.com> <71307618-0D58-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: <58999704-0D5B-11D8-B4BB-000A95A01788@melin.org> Maybe Glens, um, dog or cat ate his Panther box and manuals so had no way of knowing.. :-) /j ------------------------------------------------------------------------ joacim melin > http://z80.org > joacim at melin dot org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Nov 2, 2003, at 6:17 PM, j o a r wrote: > Panther is only supported on those computers that shipped with built > in USB. Read the system requirements: > > > > j o a r > > On 2003-11-02, at 17.54, Glen Foster wrote: > >> Panther refuses to install on my beige G3, has anyone gotten this to >> work with a PCI USB card? Does this mean that ADB is no longer >> supported? > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From sstevenson at mac.com Sun Nov 2 09:55:23 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: <92280C12-0B90-11D8-8923-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> References: <92280C12-0B90-11D8-8923-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: <7BBF601B-0BD0-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Oct 31, 2003, at 2:54 AM, mark wrote: > I think you are seriously over reaching here Scott. I appreciate the brutal honesty. :) > FTP: there was no argument AGAINST incorporating FTP into the Finder. > Folks just want it to be a good implementation. No point in doing it > badly is there ? I see your point. I guess what stuck with me was the comment about ditching third-party FTP apps. My feeling is that if Apple made that possible, we'd hear about it big time on all the Mac tabloid sites. > Utterly mystified about what point you are trying to make. That we have one group of people that want Apple to respect its boundaries as platform provider, and another that wants Apple to provide more commercial-quality software (always for free, of course! :). - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 2 10:03:54 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Panther & IceCoffee? In-Reply-To: <649AEA8F-0D56-11D8-B533-000A27984144@bdanube.com> References: <5C6F27F8-0CFE-11D8-B6EB-000A95935598@kreme.com> <649AEA8F-0D56-11D8-B533-000A27984144@bdanube.com> Message-ID: <200425C2-0D5D-11D8-9A28-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 02 Nov 2003, at 10:02, Michael Grant wrote: > On Nov 2, 2003, at 12:32 AM, Lukreme wrote: >> I keep meaning to, then I forget. then i remember it uses APE and I >> hesitate. > > Unsanity is claiming that some of its "haxies" (hate that word) are > Panther-compatible, so presumably APE itself is OK, unless it just > bothers you on principle. Personally I never had any problems with APE > on Jag. I've never been able to trace anything back to APE specifically, but I seem to have more weird behavior (apps that stall and won't quit in particular) when APE is installed. Or I might just notice it more when APE is installed. I also don't like the way it likes to stick around. -- Sarah, age 18, says "man, once you go crayola you can't go back." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/45299648/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 2 10:06:50 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <37787E6E-0CF8-11D8-999B-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: On 02 Nov 2003, at 09:52, Michael Grant wrote: > On Nov 2, 2003, at 1:03 AM, Lukreme wrote: > >>> At this point in time, there is not such a way... not matter how >>> much you'd like it to be... or no matter how much you think it ought >>> to be. >> >> Upgrade to a mail client that understands s/mime. They are legion. > > Precisely here is where you start to get unreasonable. Many people > have valid reasons for preferring Entourage, which is not exactly an > obscure choice. Erage will probably never support s/mime. It is, after all, a standard. And MSFT can't even adopt Kerberos without screwing it into a "compatible with windows only" Kerberos. I have no sympathy for anyone that uses a MSFT product for email. If no one used a MSTF mail reader the world would instantly be a much better place. -- BUGS: There is no conversion specification for the phase of the moon." strftime(3) man page -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/1c98acce/smime.bin From tallama at mac.com Sun Nov 2 10:09:49 2003 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48C6D39E-0D5E-11D8-BC13-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> Mark, you don't use Mail, so you might not realize this, but your PDFs are actually inlined as images in Mail, you aside from the crappy font you've chosen and the inability to respond directly to what you say, sending PDFs really doesn't do anything. On Nov 1, 2003, at 10:52 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/73a3ac8b/smime.bin From mark at imap-partners.net Sun Nov 2 10:19:48 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <37787E6E-0CF8-11D8-999B-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <8A28FDCE-0D5F-11D8-A11E-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> I think this has gotten out of hand. I've stopped signing here since it seemed to be bothering some folks, but I'm not sure its the right thing to do. I think its a pretty good aim to get everybody to sign so that unsigned is immediately suspicious. However, I think we are a long way off that yet and I'm not sure that everybody just starting to sign in the default manner with their preferred client is going to bring us to utopia. At the moment (AFAIK) on MacOS X we have Mail with an excellent S/MIME implementation, Mozilla with a pretty good implementation for PGP, GPG and S/MIME, Mulberry with a pretty good implementation for PGP and S/MIME, Mailsmith with an excellent implementation for PGP, Entourage working with PGP 8 via the stuff supplied by PGP and GNUMail working with GPG. I don't think any of the other MacOS X clients have got anything worth mentioning, but I may be doing them a disservice. The point is (and I'm sure its the same on Linux and Windoze) that its a rare client which can handle all of the "popular" signing and encryption methods. Should we all move to e.g. Mozilla in order to speed up the drive to "everybody signs" ? Should Mail have retained the Jaguar implementation of PGP ? FWIW, I expect Bare Bones will add S/MIME support to Mailsmith (just a hunch) and if MS have settled on S/MIME for Outlook (as they appear to have done) and its true that Entourage can't deal with S/MIME, then that's a either a big failing on their part or another example of their "strategy". Anyway, even if Mailsmith and Entourage get S/MIME, we are still going to be a long way away from "everybody signs". Where are we now ? If those with "compatible" clients start signing, are those with "non-compatible" clients more likely to seek compatibility or more likely to dig their heels in. From what we have seen so far, it looks like the latter. Why ? mark. From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 2 10:27:20 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <37787E6E-0CF8-11D8-999B-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <73B6DE03-0D5E-11D8-9A28-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 02 Nov 2003, at 10:23, Charles Dyer wrote: > At 10:52 -0600 02/11/2003, Michael Grant wrote: >> On Nov 2, 2003, at 1:03 AM, Lukreme wrote: >> >>>> At this point in time, there is not such a way... not matter how >>>> much you'd like it to be... or no matter how much you think it >>>> ought to be. >>> >>> Upgrade to a mail client that understands s/mime. They are legion. > > list the top five Mac email clients which _don't_ show the stupid > smime.p7 thingie as an attachment. Why is showing it as an attachment such a burden? It's a icon in the mail with a name. that's it. > Eudora, for one, doesn't seem to. Perhaps it does and I merely haven't > seen it. If so, pray point out how to get major clients such as, well, > Eudora, to _not_ treat this crap as an attachment. I'm wondering what mail readers show it as 2K of garbled text. Showing it as an attachment is fine. >> Precisely here is where you start to get unreasonable. Many people >> have valid reasons for preferring Entourage, which is not exactly an >> obscure choice. >> > > The part I particularly like is where he's telling _everyone_ that > they _must_ move to a new mail client for _his_ convenience. No, I don''t care what mail client you use. However, IF the client you use spews the attachment contents onto your screen, the problem is not the attachment, it is your client. If the client you use simply shows a icon indicating an attachment, then your client is behaving correctly and that is a minimal impact. If you have a problem with that, the problem is with YOU and if it really bothers you, then get a client that supports s/mime. -- If there's a bustle in your hedgerow don't be alarmed now. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/99948154/smime.bin From jmetz at communiweb.net Sun Nov 2 10:33:01 2003 From: jmetz at communiweb.net (J Michel Metz) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Clean installs are good (Re: Panther system-wide crashes) In-Reply-To: References: <9F4EF7EC-0946-11D8-A167-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> <5F96D934-0AE4-11D8-B2D7-000393DB5348@mac.com> <70389C05-0B02-11D8-9E6D-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> Message-ID: On Oct 30, 2003, at 5:31 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> I have to say, though, at the risk of sounding like a heretic: aside >> from some of the "coolness" factor of features like fast-user >> switching and expose, Panther has failed to impress me. > > Maybe it depends on what you do with your computer. I can't imagine > going back. Speed boosts all over, polish/refinements everywhere, > Finder revamp, unix updates and vastly improved development tools. I > can't believe how much Mail has improved. I wonder what features > people actually want? It seems like all anyone could talk about for a > while was how much the Mac need fast user switching, and now we have > it. The biggest remaining issue seems to be the Finder going off into > spin land, which admittedly is a big one. No, there is the well-documented problems with FileVault and lost data. Firewire 800 drives. The Finder hanging. Systemwide crashes. Wake-from-sleep issues. I personally haven't seen a speed boost (certainly not anything like going from 10.1 to Jag - I'm on a 1GHz TiBook). In fact, there are times when I can only type about 20 characters before Panther spins the beachball trying to catch up. Activity monitor is a great tool, but when these things happen with 350 MB RAM free, and it's a stock config of the computer, without any bizarre hacks, I tend to get somewhat curious about what's going on. Oh, the tasks I do? Pretty much a diverse task list - web development, remote server administration (I spend a lot of time in terminal), graphic arts, video editing, statistical analysis and good-old-fashioned email and web surfing. > I personally haven't experienced anything described here, but I always > do a clean install and I don't install weird hacks (not saying you > do). In an ideal world, it wouldn't matter if you do a clean install > or upgrade, but I don't think we (the software industry) are there > yet. As I said before, I did an "upgrade" install which, from the perspective of my clients and most consumers that I talk to (I was the informal go-to-guy before I legitimized my ACTC consultant status) is the safest and most common way to go. Before I re-do my installation I plan on attempting to find out as many potential pitfalls as possible in preparation for questions from consumers who won't have read through this list and understood that it's not the best option. > Regardless, it's not realistic to expect a major release of an > operating system (or hardware) to ship without new bugs. Sorry, no operating system should ever ship with data-destroying bugs (e.g., Firewire 800 or Filevault), especially when one of those bugs is highly touted in marketing literature. > Unless you're developing for a game console, you don't control the > environment, so you can't predict every user scenario. This becomes > amazingly clear once you start writing software. And if you hang out > at places people go to resolve problems, guess what -- you'll find > problems. It's not possible to gauge how prevalent a problem is by > going to a public forum. I was merely referring to my own user-experience. I make my living off Macs, am a rabid mac evangelist, am even a certified Apple Trainer. Don't get me wrong: I'm not down on Apple or Macs or OS X. My point was that simply from an anecdotal perspective, my user experience has been less smooth and joyous :) than with Jaguar, despite some of the "coolness" features. I also know that there will be people - if they have similar experiences to mine, let alone ones with data loss - who will regret paying $130 for it. J From markm at tyrell.com Sun Nov 2 10:41:39 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: [Moderator] Re: This List In-Reply-To: <0093A657-0B68-11D8-9DBC-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <0093A657-0B68-11D8-9DBC-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: At 10:03 PM -0800 10/30/03, Scott Stevenson wrote: >On Oct 30, 2003, at 8:36 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >>Is it just me, or is the list not working quite right? > >Apparently the mail server is a bit backed up right now. It's try to catch up. It's all these sig files being attached. It's using up 2k of bandwidth having to go out to all the members of the list. That's a lot of connections and a lot more data to send out. If the avg message is 2k or less, adding sigs has doubled the size. ;) Not to mention the encoding expansion that occurs. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 2 10:43:06 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: An early eval of Apple's Mac OS X 10.3 Message-ID: "Apple's BSD-based Mac OS X 10.3 Panther offers 64-bit processor support and new features wrapped in the latest version of a GUI that has its roots in the NeXT desktop. While Panther sets a new standard for ease of use and interface look and feel, it still lacks features that Linux users have long enjoyed." "Panther generated username/password errors and refused to connect to a Red Hat Linux 9 box running NFS on a local subnet. For its part, the Red Hat box could see the Mac in its UNIX network browser, but returned an error when attempting to open a directory. For some reason, SuSE 8.2 worked fine, in both directions, and the Mac happily connected via ASIP to the netatalk server on the RH 9 box." "Performance on my 2000-vintage 500 MHz G4 Power Mac was acceptable, if not snappy. I should note that the upgrade install took more than two hours; my last Red Hat install took 30 minutes. Performance on a single-processor PowerMac G5 was another experience entirely; even 32-bit apps displayed performance I can only describe as immediate -- owing, no doubt, to the G5 board's massive bandwidth and CPU power." Don't be afraid to take big steps. You can't cross a chasm in two small jumps. From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Sun Nov 2 10:51:07 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: OS release problems In-Reply-To: <761E50FB-0D3A-11D8-9395-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> Message-ID: On Sunday, November 2, 2003, at 01:42 PM, Steve Sobek wrote: > Also, see: > > http://www.osxfaq.com/Editorial/sobek/index12.ws > > On Oct 30, 2003, at 5:58 PM, steve harley wrote: > >> but at least Java, RAM & FireWire drive problems are >> well documented.. those in themselves reflect poorly on >> Apple's release hygiene Practicing acceptance of the way things are, is what that osxfaq.com link is talking about. And realizing that every action has consequences, is what Steve is talking about. Acceptance and Karma. They are both Buddhist sort of ideas. Be accepting, but remember that there are consequences. The FW thing really sucks. Stefano From dan at tangledhelix.com Sun Nov 2 10:54:49 2003 From: dan at tangledhelix.com (Dan Lowe) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: The Panther effect In-Reply-To: References: <55DF4092-06B0-11D8-B325-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <5CE4CD1D-0D64-11D8-9F4D-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> On Oct 26, 2003, at 12:22 AM, The Amazing Llama wrote: > Here's my favorite not-too-hyped-but-very-keen-feature so far: > > Open a new TextEdit document. Type 'cr' Hit Option-Escape (Or F5, or > whatever you have complete: bound to). Shazam. For those of us on laptops where F5 is VolUp, it's option-esc. But yes, very nifty :-) From dan at tangledhelix.com Sun Nov 2 10:56:57 2003 From: dan at tangledhelix.com (Dan Lowe) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: More panther mail questions In-Reply-To: References: <9CD089F4-0736-11D8-8119-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: <84585FF9-0D64-11D8-9F4D-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> On Oct 27, 2003, at 4:44 PM, William Ehrich wrote: > To: contains his address > To: does not contain a comma > There is no CC: header > > I don't know how to access BC: but maybe that isn't necessary. By the time a message reaches recipients, Bcc should not be present in the headers (after all if it's there, it's not serving its purpose very well, is it?) -dan From ehrich at mail.mninter.net Sun Nov 2 11:06:17 2003 From: ehrich at mail.mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: internet config Message-ID: The mail return address in my system internet preferences got changed. I think it happened when I sent a mail message from Safari. How can I change it back? I could try editing one of the three internet .plists. Is there a better way? -- Bill Ehrich From ehrich at mail.mninter.net Sun Nov 2 11:09:00 2003 From: ehrich at mail.mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <37787E6E-0CF8-11D8-999B-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: 'Lukreme' wrote: >PDF attachments? Yes, I agree. For some people, they will need to >launch a separate program like Acrobat or preview just to view your >message. >If you are using a mail client that is so old that it doesn't >understand mime attachments at all, then the problem is on your end. With Eudora it just looks like any other mail message. If you are using a mail client that is so old that it doesn't understand PDF attachments at all, then the problem is on your end. My main problem with smime attachments is simply the download time. Cleaning them out can be done by /etc/daily. Just this morning there were 14 of them, 33k bytes. And that's just the start of what looks like a coming flood. What I need is a mail program that reads the headers before downloading the contents and can be set to delete the smimes directly on the server. Eudora does that but only filters for size, saving me the time to download all those swen virus .exe files. When it can do that for smimes I'll be happy. -- Bill Ehrich From kcall at mac.com Sun Nov 2 11:13:29 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin C.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Sherlock died? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5679D2EE-0D66-11D8-860F-00306574D7D4@mac.com> On Nov 1, 2003, at 11:12 PM, Lukreme wrote: > I've been unable to load any of the sherlock plugins all day (using > Panther). Also, my FIL has had the same problem (different network > connection). My channels just spin in "Loading ... " mode K > > It spins and spins saying "loading Flights" or whatever for a few > minutes, then simply stops and leaves and empty white screen. > > -- > "Don't be nice. It's Creepy." Tendo Akane From charlesd at newsguy.com Sun Nov 2 11:15:51 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <73B6DE03-0D5E-11D8-9A28-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <37787E6E-0CF8-11D8-999B-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <73B6DE03-0D5E-11D8-9A28-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: At 11:00 -0700 02/11/2003, Lukreme wrote: >On 02 Nov 2003, at 10:23, Charles Dyer wrote: >>At 10:52 -0600 02/11/2003, Michael Grant wrote: >>>On Nov 2, 2003, at 1:03 AM, Lukreme wrote: >>> >>>>>At this point in time, there is not such a way... not matter how >>>>>much you'd like it to be... or no matter how much you think it >>>>>ought to be. >>>> >>>>Upgrade to a mail client that understands s/mime. They are legion. >> >>list the top five Mac email clients which _don't_ show the stupid >>smime.p7 thingie as an attachment. > >Why is showing it as an attachment such a burden? It's a icon in >the mail with a name. that's it. some of us would prefer to not download attachments, even small ones, repeatedly. This is especially true when said attachments confer no, none, zero benefit. They do not assist you in IDing yourself, as Eudora cannot read them and therefore ignores them. They are merely useless excrescences cluttering up the Attachments folder which must be removed by hand. The last time I cleared the Attachments folder I dumped 108 of the stupid things. They serve no purpose to me; I would rather not get them. They cannot serve your purpose so far as users of a large number of email clients are concerned, as those clients can't read 'em. > >>Eudora, for one, doesn't seem to. Perhaps it does and I merely >>haven't seen it. If so, pray point out how to get major clients >>such as, well, Eudora, to _not_ treat this crap as an attachment. > >I'm wondering what mail readers show it as 2K of garbled text. >Showing it as an attachment is fine. You'll notice that 1 i never mentioned garbled text. 2 showing it as an attachment is _not_ fine. > >>>Precisely here is where you start to get unreasonable. Many people >>>have valid reasons for preferring Entourage, which is not exactly >>>an obscure choice. >>> >> >>The part I particularly like is where he's telling _everyone_ that >>they _must_ move to a new mail client for _his_ convenience. > >No, I don''t care what mail client you use. Quote: "Upgrade to a mail client that understands s/mime. They are legion." Were those your words or not? > However, IF the client you use spews the attachment contents onto >your screen, the problem is not the attachment, it is your client. the attachment is a pain to deal with too. And it's totally unnecessary. Especially on mailing lists. > If the client you use simply shows a icon indicating an >attachment, then your client is behaving correctly and that is a >minimal impact. Not when you have several hundred of the damn things to get rid of! And, while I'm not on dial-up, I'd be pissed at the extra time spent downloading the things over a modem line. Especially as the local phone company charges by the minute for call time, including modem connections. (a phone call is a phone call so far as they're concerned. That I was calling my ISP is none of their concern, so long as I pay for the connect time.) If I was on dial-up, I'd have to _pay_ to get your nonsense attachments. Yes, I'd be paying just a little per attachment. But it adds up. I just dumped 108 of those things. Why the hell should _I_ pay extra because you want to be extra geeky? You're merely being immature and inconsiderate. Period. > If you have a problem with that, the problem is with YOU and if it >really bothers you, then get a client that supports s/mime. Telling me to change my client again, eh? No doubt I should move to where the phone company doesn't charge per minute to connect while I'm at it, eh? Where's that list of the top five Mac email clients which don't show the silly things as attachments, eh? -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 2 11:26:28 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <629805D9-0CEE-11D8-AF22-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <629805D9-0CEE-11D8-AF22-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: On Nov 1, 2003, at 11:38 PM, Dave Schroeder wrote: > On Nov 1, 2003, at 8:58 PM, Peter Apockotos wrote: > > > For the record, I'll agree that today, right this second, on this > list, digital signatures don't serve a critical purpose per se. But > again, to me personally, neither does much of the header, many > peoples' ridiculous sigs (let's talk about those "signatures" for a > minute), and much of the message contents. > Well, verifying identity to me is important, in any forum. That is just a personal belief though, and why I use them. Personally I am of the ignore it if you don't like it group in regards to the internet. Anyone remember the win.dat flood when outlook first came out? Email in and of itself has no mechanism to verify that the sender really is them, hence s/mime. > This behavior should be handled in one of two ways: > > 1. By the listserver stripping it (I believe this is something > perfectly within the discretion of the list and collective decision, > and many lists do in fact do this); or > Yes I think this should happen, just to keep things manageable and to avoid viruses and trojans. > 2. At the recipient's end. > > The one place it should NOT, and in fact cannot, be handled, because > of the very nature of digital signatures, is at the sender's end. The > sender has the ultimate right and responsibility to identify their > message in an accepted, reliable, and meaningful fashion (I concede > that there is an element of subjectivity to each of these criteria). > S/MIME digital signatures are possibly the most accepted, emerging > method for such identification. A small additional bit of information > included with a message, that is coincidentally seen as an attachment > by some mailers that do not yet understand digital signatures, is the > price of moving forward. Perhaps this will encourage people to > consider mailers than understand emerging digital signature standards > in a meaningful way. > They have been around for some time and are now emerging as a standard method. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/d6d766ec/smime.bin From rogerhoward at mac.com Sun Nov 2 11:33:37 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26BD9F6A-0D68-11D8-9B33-0003938C8B26@mac.com> On Oct 31, 2003, at 10:26 PM, Dan.Gaters wrote: > "rogerhoward@mac.com" wrote: > >> No one but you seems to think it's meant to compete with Suitcase > > It's disingenuous for you to say that since I never said it's meant to > compete with Suitcase, or any others for that matter. Sorry, that's how I took it. I did read the mentioned article also and that's how I took it and your comments (other than mentions of instability, which I acknowledge is a problem). > FontBook is crippled not because it has fewer features than, say, > Suitcase, > but because it does not deliver what it promises and what even a basic > font > management app should do. Its many failings are enumerated in the > article > posted and you chose to highlight one passage to dismiss it: > >> "But you cannot create reports, examine fonts, manage damaged files, >> or >> import/export font collections " I saw that line as the summary of the problems they saw - if there are more complaints I missed them. Those features, IMHO, would put FontBook in clear competition with commercial products, and thus cause many fits of crying foul. > I'll leave it to others who read the actual piece to decide whether > this > clipping is disingenuous or not. Next time I'll post the entire article. > Let's take just one issue cited in the clip above: management. Yes, I > do > think that a font management app should manage damaged fonts. Yes, I do > think it should resolve fonts without creating a havoc: I agree. It should warn users of bad fonts and allow them to ignore them. Font repairs I'm not convinced of - that's always been a third-party opp and while it would be nice, I'm torn on what features should be bundled and not. There are no hard rules here - I'm simply pointing out that I think they are treading a fine, but necessary, line with Font Book. They can't afford to drive away the pro apps, though I think those shops could use competition from a good product. Font Book isn't it. > Resolve feature in Font Book may cause problems > story=2003102715591489#comments> Sounds like trouble. > Yes, I do think enabling/disabling/deleting/moving fonts should be > heck of a > lot more obvious, especially to the novice. When Joe Novice has a > bunch of > fonts in a folder and wants to see what his fonts look like, his fonts > are > duplicated. When he disables fonts from FontBook, what happens to the > fonts? > When he wants to get rid of fonts already in FB, how does he do it? > Are they > disabled? Deleted? Gone from the duplicate file? From the original > folder > they came from? I agree font previewing should not require adding to Font Book - it should be a function (IMHO) of Finder. > FB doesn't make all the simple things simple(r ) and fails to attack > many of > the harder things at all. It's not a complete font manager tool; I hope they get the bugs straightened out and a few functional tweaks without stepping on the commercial font management market. That, or do it whole hog, destroy the market, and deliver a perfect app. It could happen, but I think it would get a lot of negative reaction. That said, I'm not sure whether I think that would be good or not - the font management market has been pretty inept on OSX (if you ask me), though I'm not sure what the criteria should be for Apple replacing a market with a bundled app when the market fails miserably to support its users. It's that, or create a new app for the pro line that would compete, but at a fair price, to allow the other guys a reasonable chance to survive. > In the end, it does not have enough umph to compete against Suitcase, > but > covers enough space in Suitcase's territory to perhaps seriously harm > it by > slow bleeding. I don't think Suitcase offers much at all these days unless you're using the Suitcase Server (itself a questionable product). Maybe this is a good fire to be lit, to provoke the low-end tools to improve rather than provide the absolute bare minimum (which I think *should* be included with the OS). Font management is in a sorry state; I hope Font Book improves in one of two ways (or both): 1) Get the basic features working robustly. Iron out functional misses (previewing should not force Font Book to add a font to a collection). 2) Full-steam ahead, launch Font Book Pro for a competitive price (in the same range as Font Agent and Font Reserve) and force those guys to compete. While publishing doesn't seem to get as much attention from Apple these days, this is one app where Apple could help tremendously. Right now Font Book is pretty worthless for high-end users, and it sounds like there are some issues with it even for lower-end users (though huge font collections and non-pro users should not go together). Why are fonts always such a bitch? -R From pgort at mac.com Sun Nov 2 11:43:00 2003 From: pgort at mac.com (Peter Gort) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Panther & IceCoffee? In-Reply-To: <649AEA8F-0D56-11D8-B533-000A27984144@bdanube.com> References: <5C6F27F8-0CFE-11D8-B6EB-000A95935598@kreme.com> <649AEA8F-0D56-11D8-B533-000A27984144@bdanube.com> Message-ID: <46CB3618-0D6B-11D8-BA32-00039313064A@mac.com> I bought MightyMouse and it's working perfectly so far in Panther. On 03/11/2003, at 4:02 AM, Michael Grant wrote: > On Nov 2, 2003, at 12:32 AM, Lukreme wrote: > >> I keep meaning to, then I forget. then i remember it uses APE and I >> hesitate. > > Unsanity is claiming that some of its "haxies" (hate that word) are > Panther-compatible, so presumably APE itself is OK, unless it just > bothers you on principle. Personally I never had any problems with APE > on Jag. > > Michael From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 2 12:05:34 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Sherlock died? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C170682-0D6E-11D8-BCE5-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 2, 2003, at 2:12 AM, Lukreme wrote: > I've been unable to load any of the sherlock plugins all day (using > Panther). Also, my FIL has had the same problem (different network > connection). > > It spins and spins saying "loading Flights" or whatever for a few > minutes, then simply stops and leaves and empty white screen. > It is working over here ok. I had someone i know have a similar problem, but also his web browsing ability died at the same time. Any problems their? --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/af3e5660/smime.bin From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Sun Nov 2 12:10:08 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan.Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: <26BD9F6A-0D68-11D8-9B33-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: "Roger Howard" wrote: > I'm not sure whether I think that would be good or not - the font management > market has been pretty inept on OSX (if you ask me), though I'm not sure what > the criteria should be for Apple replacing a market with a bundled app when > the market fails miserably to support its users. I wonder if it's legally OK for Apple to go to ISVs, give them a list of what they are doing wrong, what they are not doing that's essential, and ask them to improve in a reasonable timeframe or else face competition from Apple. d*g From cgaraffa at creativeaim.com Sun Nov 2 12:17:49 2003 From: cgaraffa at creativeaim.com (Chris Garaffa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: The Panther effect In-Reply-To: <5CE4CD1D-0D64-11D8-9F4D-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> References: <55DF4092-06B0-11D8-B325-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <5CE4CD1D-0D64-11D8-9F4D-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> Message-ID: <9E16C884-0D6F-11D8-8BDC-000393D00E20@creativeaim.com> On Nov 2, 2003, at 1:42 PM, Dan Lowe wrote: > On Oct 26, 2003, at 12:22 AM, The Amazing Llama wrote: > >> Here's my favorite not-too-hyped-but-very-keen-feature so far: >> >> Open a new TextEdit document. Type 'cr' Hit Option-Escape (Or F5, or >> whatever you have complete: bound to). Shazam. > > For those of us on laptops where F5 is VolUp, it's option-esc. But > yes, very nifty :-) Or, fn-F5 (fn is the bottom left key, at least on my 12" PB). Though I find option-escape easier on the hands. -- Chris Garaffa cgaraffa@creativeaim.com From ehrich at mninter.net Sun Nov 2 13:09:18 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: HTML/CSS question Message-ID: Can someone who understands HTML and CSS tell me how to make a CSS entry for Safari, to stop GIF animations? I'm using a CSS file that suppresses a lot of ads based on the URLs. I don't mind the ads if they aren't animated and I don't want to have to keep updating the list of blocked URLs. Also, some of the sites have annoying animations of their own, so a URL based filter doesn't stop them. Browsers: iCab can control fonts, animations, and pop-ups, but can't do CSSs well. IE controls fonts and animations, but can't stop pop-ups. Safari can stop pop-ups but can't control animations or fonts. others? -- Bill Ehrich From steve at paper-ape.com Sun Nov 2 13:14:27 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: <26BD9F6A-0D68-11D8-9B33-0003938C8B26@mac.com> References: <26BD9F6A-0D68-11D8-9B33-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031102, 11:09 -0800, they whom i call Roger Howard wrote: >I don't think Suitcase offers much at all these days unless you're >using the Suitcase Server (itself a questionable product). Suitcase and the others provide auto-activation of fonts used within documents when they are opened.. this is a tremendous time saver in production environments -- steve harley From bmiller at asu.edu Sun Nov 2 13:17:46 2003 From: bmiller at asu.edu (Brad) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Sherlock died? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 2, 2003, at 12:12 AM, Lukreme wrote: > I've been unable to load any of the sherlock plugins all day (using > Panther). Also, my FIL has had the same problem (different network > connection). > > It spins and spins saying "loading Flights" or whatever for a few > minutes, then simply stops and leaves and empty white screen. > > -- > "Don't be nice. It's Creepy." Tendo Akane When I just launched Sherlock, no collections or channels loaded. A quit and relaunched fixed it for me though. Every thing is working as normal now. Brad -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/2ba6ff22/smime.bin From seiryu at comcast.net Sun Nov 2 14:21:01 2003 From: seiryu at comcast.net (Nick Zitzmann) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Clean installs are good (Re: Panther system-wide crashes) In-Reply-To: References: <9F4EF7EC-0946-11D8-A167-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> <5F96D934-0AE4-11D8-B2D7-000393DB5348@mac.com> <70389C05-0B02-11D8-9E6D-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> Message-ID: <578FFA78-0D80-11D8-9FB7-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> On Nov 2, 2003, at 10:17 AM, J Michel Metz wrote: > No, there is the well-documented problems with FileVault and lost data. OK, you've got us on that one. > Firewire 800 drives. That's due to a hardware problem, not necessarily the OS. > The Finder hanging. Examples...? If you're talking about the "attempt to access an unavailable volume causes the system to grind to a halt" problem, it's been with us for a very long time, since at least System 8, probably earlier... > Systemwide crashes. I haven't had any problems here. > Wake-from-sleep issues. Again, no problems here. > I personally haven't seen a speed boost (certainly not anything like > going from 10.1 to Jag - I'm on a 1GHz TiBook). In fact, there are > times when I can only type about 20 characters before Panther spins > the beachball trying to catch up. This is a good sign that your installation is frobbed, because this shouldn't be happening. > Activity monitor is a great tool, but when these things happen with > 350 MB RAM free, and it's a stock config of the computer, without any > bizarre hacks, I tend to get somewhat curious about what's going on. RAM availability shouldn't matter in this case; check the CPU activity. Turn on the floating CPU window. > As I said before, I did an "upgrade" install which, from the > perspective of my clients and most consumers that I talk to (I was the > informal go-to-guy before I legitimized my ACTC consultant status) is > the safest and most common way to go. It isn't. Always archive and install; never upgrade. I've had a lot of problems in the past with upgraded installations that did not happen when I did a clean installation... > My point was that simply from an anecdotal perspective, my user > experience has been less smooth and joyous :) than with Jaguar, > despite some of the "coolness" features. I've run into a few bugs, and filed reports on all of them, but I'll point out that 10.3 fixed a number of problems in 10.2.x (Mail HTML rendering issues, the Project Builder & Property List Editor boolean bug, numerous X11 bugs, that old System 7-era script editor, and more). Overall I like 10.3. I, too, wouldn't go back if I had a choice... Nick Zitzmann AIM/iChat: dragonsdontsleep Check out my software page: http://seiryu.home.comcast.net/ S/MIME signature available upon request "I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone." - Bjarne Stroustrup From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 2 15:08:38 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1E4C385E-0D75-11D8-B5BD-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 2 Nov 2003, at 19:56, Dan.Gaters wrote: > "Roger Howard" wrote: > >> I'm not sure whether I think that would be good or not - the font >> management >> market has been pretty inept on OSX (if you ask me), though I'm not >> sure what >> the criteria should be for Apple replacing a market with a bundled >> app when >> the market fails miserably to support its users. > > I wonder if it's legally OK for Apple to go to ISVs, give them a list > of > what they are doing wrong, what they are not doing that's essential, > and ask > them to improve in a reasonable timeframe or else face competition from > Apple. I know that AAPL went to Avid in years past and described potential issues with their crappy software. And then bought Final Cut off Macromedia. M -- Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 2 15:11:16 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: An early eval of Apple's Mac OS X 10.3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 31, 2003, at 1:35 PM, Matt wrote: > > > "Apple's BSD-based Mac OS X 10.3 Panther offers 64-bit processor > support and new features wrapped in the latest version of a GUI that > has its roots in the NeXT desktop. While Panther sets a new standard > for ease of use and interface look and feel, it still lacks features > that Linux users have long enjoyed." > > "Panther generated username/password errors and refused to connect to > a Red Hat Linux 9 box running NFS on a local subnet. For its part, the > Red Hat box could see the Mac in its UNIX network browser, but > returned an error when attempting to open a directory. For some > reason, SuSE 8.2 worked fine, in both directions, and the Mac happily > connected via ASIP to the netatalk server on the RH 9 box." > I do not see this problem with Solaris NFS. Linux NFS is to be blunt, utter crap. > "Performance on my 2000-vintage 500 MHz G4 Power Mac was acceptable, > if not snappy. I should note that the upgrade install took more than > two hours; my last Red Hat install took 30 minutes. Performance on a > single-processor PowerMac G5 was another experience entirely; even > 32-bit apps displayed performance I can only describe as immediate -- > owing, no doubt, to the G5 board's massive bandwidth and CPU power." > > Note he said upgrade install. Think I'll read this before commenting elsewhere :) --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/f35299b3/smime.bin From steve at paper-ape.com Sun Nov 2 15:22:20 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: OS release problems In-Reply-To: <761E50FB-0D3A-11D8-9395-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> References: <9F4EF7EC-0946-11D8-A167-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> <5F96D934-0AE4-11D8-B2D7-000393DB5348@mac.com> <70389C05-0B02-11D8-9E6D-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> <2747CCB8-0B14-11D8-BFFD-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <761E50FB-0D3A-11D8-9395-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> Message-ID: at 20031102, 08:42 -0500, they whom i call Steve Sobek wrote: >It's always been a part of just about every OS >release, Apple or MS or anyone, to have problems >with the initial release, and even later. For >the vast majority of people(including me), >Panther has seemed very stable and worthwhile, >and is getting great reviews. i never said Panther was "bad".. i'm very much looking forward to the upgrade after i complete a current project >It's a tradeoff between releasing something, or >fixing everything forever and never delivering >the product. i've been there.. i've been on a QA team that refused to sign off on a shoddy release of a "bet the company" product.. the company (NBI) went bankrupt within a year there are widespread reports that the FireWire bug was well known in the betas.. given data loss by a significant number of customers, i stick by what i said -- it reflects poorly on Apple.. even worse if it turns out that Apple was rushing because of an "ahead of schedule" PR stunt >Also, see: > >http://www.osxfaq.com/Editorial/sobek/index12.ws i'm glad you've encountered Buddhist thought (really am), but i cringe a bit at how you are using it.. "acceptance" of those problems you "don't want", is an ideal, but what's attainable today and every day is engagement -- dance with the problems, curse them, work around them, joy in the imperfection, but no, don't tell me i shouldn't point them out a couple of relevant books: Shambhala: The Sacred Path of the Warrior, by Ch?gyam Trungpa The Wisdom of No Escape, by Pema Ch?dr?n from your editorial: "Many people say OS X is terrible because it has this problem " i'm not one of those people -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Sun Nov 2 15:24:52 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: <7BBF601B-0BD0-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <92280C12-0B90-11D8-8923-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <7BBF601B-0BD0-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031031, 10:31 -0800, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: >On Oct 31, 2003, at 2:54 AM, mark wrote: >>Utterly mystified about what point you are trying to make. > >That we have one group of people that want Apple to respect its >boundaries as platform provider, and another that wants Apple to >provide more commercial-quality software (always for free, of >course! :). i think it's incorrect to polarize the issue.. it's not really a dilemma -- there are solutions i think Apple could achieve better synergy with its developers with a more creative "dialog", both in the choices of how or whether to work with developers when Apple wants to assimilate their niche, and also in how it provides opportunities for developers to extend stock OS features -- steve harley From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 2 15:29:47 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: An early eval of Apple's Mac OS X 10.3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5EC8C08C-0D8A-11D8-BCE5-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Oct 31, 2003, at 1:35 PM, Matt wrote: > > Ok quick impressions of the review. There are some mistakes and misconceptions here. I am guessing the author did not do much research. First off, Panther is based in part on FreeBBSD 5.x, not BSD 5. That is a big deal because there is more than one BSD based unix. Default finder behavior is not column view, I am not sure where he got that from. He also fails to mention Classic finder view and his assertion the sidebar can confuse since it might mask hierarchy is false imho. The fact that is masks it is good and simplifies it. What is easier? Going to Hard Drive->USers->username->Documents or just Documents? He seems to gloss over expose. Expose is imho, one of the biggest new features in Panther. The fact you have multiple expose modes is important. I use the app window one and the desktop view one a lot as well as all apps view. He is correct about NFS. The only reason I can see this is because NFS has a lot of security implications when running a NFS server. The network Finder issues are better , but I still see them. I have not had it lock everything up, just the Finder, which i relaunch. A PITA though. I cannot comment on his freeze since I have not had that happen once. His dig regarding price is petty I think. Panther has undergone a lot of testing, it is a .0 release as well. Imho expose nullifies the need for virtual desktops. Prior to Panther I used Codetek Virtualdesktop. I have not installed it yet as I have no need now. His comment on the look of mail.app is true, it has not changed much, but did it need to? I don't think it needed to. I prefer look changing little or slowly over time, not major look changes. I think most users agree there. He fails to mention that Evolution's integration with exchange costs a bit of cash since you need an external connector to do it. SpamAssassin is a server based thing, so I don't understand his mention of it here. Mail's junk mail filter is pretty damn good for me. A lot of the "new features" he mentions to for Panther are not new to OS X, like bluetooth, 802.11, firewalling, Also the dig about so much software developers wouldnt want to bother developing software for Apple is foolish. Also he has a very very basic take on the Adobe stuff. He mentions speed, well he did an upgrade install not a clean or archive and install. So that covers that area. He is also ignoring the fact that a lot of Linux users have already switched and will continue to do so imho. It seems like a large group of Linux users needs to ignore or take down os x a peg or two for some reason. I am surprised how he glossed over the iApps. One of the big draws of OS X are the iApps, his glossing over them makes it seem like he might not Get It (TM)? Again this is my personal view on this review, opinions? comments? flames? ;) --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/9962eae0/smime.bin From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 2 15:33:27 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Panther system-wide crashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1083F328-0D8B-11D8-BCE5-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Oct 30, 2003, at 9:59 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: >> I have to say, though, at the risk of sounding like a heretic: aside >> from some of the "coolness" factor of features like fast-user >> switching and expose, Panther has failed to impress me. > > Due to some snafu I was forced to use for a few days for the first > time in > two years OS 9 and OS X 10/10.04/10.1. It was insane. Panther is an > absolute > delight compared to OSX 10 and even Jaguar. For the first time I can > say > that the UI is unambiguously faster than the earlier release. I wasn't > too > keen on the Jaguar Aqua UI, so much so that I'd switch to metallic (via > Metallifizer) whenever I can. Now I'm (re)loving the more sedated look > of > plain Aqua. There are, to be sure, abominations like the half-baked > FileVault and the lame FontBook, but overall, Panther is a great > release. > I am curious, what is lame about FontBook? I've not used it extensively yet. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/0f31f6b2/smime.bin From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Sun Nov 2 15:55:21 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan.Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: An early eval of Apple's Mac OS X 10.3 In-Reply-To: <5EC8C08C-0D8A-11D8-BCE5-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: "Lawrence Sica" wrote: > his assertion the sidebar can confuse since it might mask hierarchy is false > imho. I don't quite understand this complaint, and it's been mentioned before. Isn't there the Path widget that you can place on the toolbar? d*g From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Sun Nov 2 15:57:37 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan.Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Panther system-wide crashes In-Reply-To: <1083F328-0D8B-11D8-BCE5-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: "Lawrence Sica" wrote: > I am curious, what is lame about FontBook? Panther In Depth: Not Fond of Font Book d*g From jared at 23x.net Sun Nov 2 16:07:45 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: An early eval of Apple's Mac OS X 10.3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0D38752F-0D8E-11D8-8BC9-000A2791CF7C@23x.net> On Nov 2, 2003, at 11:55 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > I do not see this problem with Solaris NFS. Linux NFS is to be blunt, > utter crap. FreeBSD, Solaris, OSX... all good NFS implementations. -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "No SPORK today. SPORK tomorrow. There's always SPORK tomorrow." From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 2 16:14:42 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <9B7DDD42-0D3B-11D8-A57A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <9D3EDB51-0D32-11D8-8BC9-000A2791CF7C@23x.net> <9B7DDD42-0D3B-11D8-A57A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 2, 2003, at 8:51 AM, Matt wrote: > > On 2 Nov 2003, at 12:46, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > >> On Nov 1, 2003, at 11:57 PM, Rick Sanford wrote: >>> [1] I think that dell is not smart, just greedy, and driven by >>> fear, like intel, and having a working knowledge of, but no interest >>> in, their customers. >> >> Dell make nice servers. I'm just ordering 3 more. > > Dell don't REALLY make nice servers. > > Apple doesn't make servers bigger than 1U. > At one time Dell servers were great overall. Same with most of their hardware. They went through a period, starting about two years ago(roughly), when their hardware quality began to drop sharply. I am not sure if the trend has continued as I have not purchased any dell equipment in about 1.5 years > M > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/02a37f0f/smime.bin From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 2 16:38:56 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: An early eval of Apple's Mac OS X 10.3 In-Reply-To: <5EC8C08C-0D8A-11D8-BCE5-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <5EC8C08C-0D8A-11D8-BCE5-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: <6AC45C4D-0D93-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 2 Nov 2003, at 23:14, Lawrence Sica wrote: > > On Oct 31, 2003, at 1:35 PM, Matt wrote: > >> >> > > Ok quick impressions of the review. There are some mistakes and > misconceptions here. I am guessing the author did not do much > research. There seem to be two kinds of Linux user out there. 1. Paranoid and Defensive 2. Already switched (in spirit, even if they haven't bought the hardware). A lot of people could say that there is only one kind of Mac user - Paranoid and Defensive It's odd, mainly because I would have thought that a lot of people who code for Linux would see Mac OS X as a new and fertile audience especially now that Mac OS X comes with X11 built-in - then again, we're talking about people who think that software should be free, except when they want it to be[1]. I guess if there was something commercial out there in the Linux world, it would make the effort to transition to OSX. M [1] the confused mantra of the professional software developer who pushes Linux and the GPL. Software should be free...except this bit that I'm trying to sell you...because it's..uh...special... From hevans at aspectresources.com Sun Nov 2 16:56:47 2003 From: hevans at aspectresources.com (Hugh Evans) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: firewire 800 drives & panther: not good buds In-Reply-To: <774C2798-0BA6-11D8-906F-0003938B8774@newsguy.com> References: <774C2798-0BA6-11D8-906F-0003938B8774@newsguy.com> Message-ID: <78E21A9A-0D4C-11D8-A2DC-000A95A0906A@aspectresources.com> This is not just an Apple issue - this happens with NT, XP and 2000 hevans On Oct 31, 2003, at 6:31 AM, Charles Dyer wrote: > just a word of warning. > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From jpb at ApesSeekingKnowledge.net Sun Nov 2 17:44:32 2003 From: jpb at ApesSeekingKnowledge.net (Joe Block) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <629805D9-0CEE-11D8-AF22-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <629805D9-0CEE-11D8-AF22-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <81E515FD-0D8A-11D8-BE35-000393102F9E@ApesSeekingKnowledge.net> On Nov 1, 2003, at 11:38 PM, Dave Schroeder wrote: > On Nov 1, 2003, at 8:58 PM, Peter Apockotos wrote: > 2. At the recipient's end. Those of you who don't like x509 digital signatures, you can nuke all messages containing them by creating a filter that looks for the line Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; in the message body and deletes them. For a variety of reasons, I prefer GPG to x509, but Apple and Microsoft have both standardized on x509, and signed messages are going to become more and more prevalent, whether we like it or not. The digital signatures are coming, cope. If the list moderators choose to forbid digital signatures, I'd prefer that they set the list software to strip incoming signature attachments rather than bounce messages with them because people will occasionally forget to uncheck the box if they sign most of their email, but that's the mod's choice to make, not ours. I don't understand what the big deal is. If it just shows up as an extra icon in the message header, just ignore it like we have to ignore the tnef files outlook mail is polluted with. If you're that concerned about clutter in your attachment folder, write a folder action to automatically delete them, or make a cron job to delete them. jpb -- Joe Block I want to move to theory. Everything works in theory. From aa4lr at mac.com Sun Nov 2 17:59:02 2003 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off Message-ID: <20031103014108.QRJQ1849.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> On 10/30/03 12:28 PM, Michael Stearne at mstearne@entermix.com wrote: >Speaking of Longhorn. The blatant rip-off of the Mac is still alive >and kicking at Microsoft. Look at the similarities between what >Panther offers today and what Longhorn will "innovate" in 3 years: Don't fall into the trap of thinking the visual similarities are just some copying. Frankly, the look of the default theme seems much more to me like OpenStep with a bit of the Apple brushed Al built in. No, the real parts of Longhorn to fear are the CLR and all the .NET technologies. While Apple wasn't able to pull off a complete conversion of existing applications with its Rhapsody strategy, Microsoft can easily convince one of the biggest application's developers -- itself. Of course, converting to .NET means a complete lock-in to Windows and Microsoft. Trouble is, Microsoft is going to deliver tools to make it so terribly easy to do. >They >look the same except that "Avalon", e.g. Quartz doesn't have >anti-aliased text and they didn't even complete the Brushed Steel >window frame (look at the bottom edge of the Window, its the same as >XP's window.) A lot of the Longhorn structure is a natural evolution of Windows, similar to the Mac -> NeXT transistion in the 1980s. It's more a matter of copying NeXT than Apple, really. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 2 18:16:28 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <9D3EDB51-0D32-11D8-8BC9-000A2791CF7C@23x.net> <9B7DDD42-0D3B-11D8-A57A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 2 Nov 2003, at 23:24, Lawrence Sica wrote: > On Nov 2, 2003, at 8:51 AM, Matt wrote: >> On 2 Nov 2003, at 12:46, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: >>> >>> Dell make nice servers. I'm just ordering 3 more. >> Dell don't REALLY make nice servers. >> Apple doesn't make servers bigger than 1U. >> > > At one time Dell servers were great overall. Same with most of > their hardware. They went through a period, starting about two years > ago(roughly), when their hardware quality began to drop sharply. I am > not sure if the trend has continued as I have not purchased any dell > equipment in about 1.5 years Their PowerEdge range looked the business but I was less than inspired by the build quality and even annoyed by the limited upgrade options considering the cost of the buggers. Apple should do a server other than XServe. Darnit. From steve at paper-ape.com Sun Nov 2 18:19:03 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <629805D9-0CEE-11D8-AF22-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <629805D9-0CEE-11D8-AF22-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: at 20031101, 22:38 -0600, they whom i call Dave Schroeder wrote: >A small additional bit of information included with a message, that >is coincidentally seen as an attachment by some mailers that do not >yet understand digital signatures, is the price of moving forward. they don't really bother me because i have a fairly fast connection.. but what i wonder are three things: 1) talk about john hancock -- couldn't signing have been accomplished with an order of magnitude less data? 2) what about digests? (not that i've ever used them) 3) should an email client with signing support to also allow you to define rules about which messages get signed? -- steve harley From joar at joar.com Sun Nov 2 18:22:55 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Email client compatibility with smime certificates Message-ID: Some of you might have read my guide for working with certificates in Mail: I would like to add a compatibility matrix, showing which email clients that have support for smime certificates, and which doesn't. Please let me know of any clients that you have tried that works, or doesn't work, what OS you used, and what version of the email client - I'll try to summarize and add this information to the page. j o a r From kcall at mac.com Sun Nov 2 18:28:34 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin C.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Cocoa literature list Message-ID: <63065D8E-0DA4-11D8-860F-00306574D7D4@mac.com> Kevin From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 2 18:29:59 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <37787E6E-0CF8-11D8-999B-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <65D7EBAC-0DA4-11D8-9A28-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 02 Nov 2003, at 10:55, William Ehrich wrote: > My main problem with smime attachments is simply the download time. > Cleaning them out can be done by /etc/daily. > Just this morning there were 14 of them, 33k bytes. And that's just > the start of what looks like a coming flood. A s/mime signed messages is still smaller, on average, than an HTML message, and plenty of people on this list post HTML/rich text. In fact, last month, the smallest message posted to the list was 2.4KB, and the largest was 68KB. 10 Messages where over 10KB. Almost all of those contained multiple levels of TOFU. -- "Here comes sunrise. Yeah, here's your sunrise. I used to hide from the sun, tried to live my whole life underground, why'd you have to rise and ruin all my fun? Just turn over; close the curtains on the day." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/37785cbd/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 2 18:34:08 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:09 2005 Subject: HTML/CSS question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02 Nov 2003, at 12:54, William Ehrich wrote: > iCab can control fonts, animations, and pop-ups, but can't do CSSs > well. > IE controls fonts and animations, but can't stop pop-ups. > Safari can stop pop-ups but can't control animations or fonts. > others? IIRC, Camino and OW both allow blocking popups and animated ads. Both handle CSS well (Better than IE). -- "I don't think the kind of friends I'd have would care." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/b94d3961/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 2 18:41:46 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: An early eval of Apple's Mac OS X 10.3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8FBF2258-0DA5-11D8-9A28-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 31 Oct 2003, at 11:35, Matt wrote: > "Performance on my 2000-vintage 500 MHz G4 Power Mac was acceptable, > if not snappy. I should note that the upgrade install took more than > two hours;" WHAT? This is insane. No way did upgrading to Panther take 2 hours. It didn't even take an hour. -- Ah we're lonely, we're romantic / and the cider's laced with acid / and the Holy Spirit's crying, Where's the beef? / And the moon is swimming naked / and the summer night is fragrant / with a mighty expectation of relief -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/5a3bcdbe/smime.bin From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sun Nov 2 19:11:42 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: A response to Proteron, was Re: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5F5A5638-0D82-11D8-9C01-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> And he's so right. But hey, I am sure the local bozo would say otherwise, just for fun. j. On Oct 28, 2003, at 7:08 PM, Matt wrote: > > http://fury.com/article/1872.php > > Kevin Fox responds to Proteron... > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 2 19:17:57 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: firewire 800 drives & panther: not good buds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 02 Nov 2003, at 10:28, Johannes Vetsch wrote: > It's not only FW 800 Problem it also crashed my FW 400 200GB external. It is an Oxford 922 problem, tough it appears to also affect the later Oxford 911's that support drives larger than 128GB. OTOH, it hasn't affected my FW160GB on either of my Panther machines. They also haven't been rebooted much (at least once each for the security update though) -- When the stars threw down their spears And watered heaven with their tears, Did He smile his work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/fedc3912/smime.bin From sstevenson at mac.com Sun Nov 2 19:49:54 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: [Moderator] Final Warning (Re: Freedom versus Childish...) In-Reply-To: <65D7EBAC-0DA4-11D8-9A28-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> <37787E6E-0CF8-11D8-999B-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <65D7EBAC-0DA4-11D8-9A28-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <4E38072E-0DAF-11D8-A229-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Because of the list backlog, I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt this time. But please note the message quoted below that I sent on Nov 1 at 2pm PST. Anybody that posts on this topic (or the same topic under a different name) from here on out will be put on probation status. No excuses. If you want to talk about it, send it to me directly off-list. This is supposed to be a fun, easy-going place to discuss ___Mac OS X___. Moderating the list is a strictly volunteer side job for me. I have a few blunt instruments available to me to moderate, so I need the cooperation of the list to make it all work. This includes not leaping at the opportunity to play the victim (on either side of the equation, mind you). We're mostly adults here so we should be able to work things out. I've received a few messages off-list, and I've already sent a message to Ken (the list admin) discussing the whole attachment issue in response to those. I'll let you know when a decision is reached regarding that. Thanks, - Scott > From: Scott Stevenson > Date: November 1, 2003 2:36:02 PM PST > To: Mac OS X Bitch > Subject: [Moderator] Re: smime.p7 > > Okay, this doesn't seem to be going anywhere. I haven't had time to > keep up with why you guys are arguing about, but I don't believe > anyone is getting convinced. If you have a problem, contact me > off-list and describe the issue. > > Please don't discuss it any further on the list. > > Thanks, > > - Scott > From sstevenson at mac.com Sun Nov 2 19:52:01 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: HTML/CSS question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 2, 2003, at 11:54 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > Can someone who understands HTML and CSS tell me how to make a CSS > entry for Safari, to stop GIF animations? I don't *think* this can be handled by CSS. > Browsers: > iCab can control fonts, animations, and pop-ups, but can't do CSSs > well. > IE controls fonts and animations, but can't stop pop-ups. > Safari can stop pop-ups but can't control animations or fonts. > others? I believe OmniWeb is closest to the combination of features you're looking for. Uses Safari's engine and can control ads. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From mstearne at entermix.com Sun Nov 2 20:18:01 2003 From: mstearne at entermix.com (Michael Stearne) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031103014108.QRJQ1849.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> References: <20031103014108.QRJQ1849.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: On Nov 2, 2003, at 8:41 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: > On 10/30/03 12:28 PM, Michael Stearne at mstearne@entermix.com wrote: > >> Speaking of Longhorn. The blatant rip-off of the Mac is still alive >> and kicking at Microsoft. Look at the similarities between what >> Panther offers today and what Longhorn will "innovate" in 3 years: > > Don't fall into the trap of thinking the visual similarities are just > some copying. Frankly, the look of the default theme seems much more to > me like OpenStep with a bit of the Apple brushed Al built in. > But if it is just a copy of OpenStep, why didn't they implement it in XP or 2000. Its not like OpenStep has changed since then. Why did they happen to do it after Apple. > No, the real parts of Longhorn to fear are the CLR and all the .NET > technologies. > Yes, definitely. But then again Linux's growth is not something Microsoft can stop. Microsoft for once will have to compete. > While Apple wasn't able to pull off a complete conversion of existing > applications with its Rhapsody strategy, Microsoft can easily convince > one of the biggest application's developers -- itself. > What do you mean by this? > Of course, converting to .NET means a complete lock-in to Windows and > Microsoft. Trouble is, Microsoft is going to deliver tools to make it > so > terribly easy to do. > Yes they are. But if the Mono project works out well (as long as Microsoft doesn't completely sabotage it) Mono will free users from vendor lock in. Supporting Java will help even more than Mono. Java levels the developer playing field. James Gosling uses a Mac to do Java work. :-) Michael From joar at joar.com Sun Nov 2 20:29:55 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Microsoft Launches Portable Music Player In-Reply-To: References: <890F12F2-0BCD-11D8-8B27-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> Message-ID: <32859C32-0BD7-11D8-B553-000393D4AB70@joar.com> ...or then again, perhaps I'm wrong. The article is a bit ambigous, but it's probably the journalist mixing up the facts. The only thing from the article that support the theory of a M$ hardware device is this comment: "Both gadgets", but OTOH there are a lot of other things in the article that points to a software only thingie. Sorry, j o a r On 2003-10-31, at 19.12, j o a r wrote: > Read it again. From rogerhoward at mac.com Sun Nov 2 20:42:20 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: my signing problem resolved. In-Reply-To: <3CBC2CA0-0BD3-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: On Friday, October 31, 2003, at 10:51 AM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Oct 28, 2003, at 10:56 AM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > >> Word to the wise - filevault IS NOT ready for prime time > > Oh no. Not that "my standard is your standard" term again. > > I haven't used FileVault, but there's got to be a better way to > describe it. I think if it's causing data loss for any reason other than operator error (forgetting the password) then it's unfortunately NRFPT - this being my first use of that term. I can't see how anyone's standard for data security would not include being able to recover that data when it's needed. Of course I'm not up on the whole FV saga, but I've heard some horror stories. I don't trust it, didn't trust it before the negative reports, and I think it was a very dangerous thing to include. I do understand there's some fallback, at least if it fails during the initial encryption. But there's no way I'm trusting my entire account to it. I would be much happier with dynamically growing, encrypted DMG images.... I already use them for sensitive files, the only thing missing is the ability to grow their size as needed. -R From michael-winter at uiowa.edu Sun Nov 2 20:58:56 2003 From: michael-winter at uiowa.edu (Michael Winter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Microsoft Launches Portable Music Player In-Reply-To: References: <890F12F2-0BCD-11D8-8B27-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> Message-ID: On Oct 31, 2003, at 12:12 PM, j o a r wrote: > Read it again. I did. There are a couple ambiguous sentences, but nothing I found specifically states MS is making any hardware. Care to elaborate on what you're reading that makes you think they are making hardware? I may just be failing "Australian English" comprehension, but I'm just not seeing it. -Mike From scott at maxify.com Sun Nov 2 21:02:26 2003 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: FastMac 933Mhz upgrade card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E66AD1A-0BDE-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Oct 31, 2003, at 10:17 AM, Chuck Soper wrote: > I was at the O'Reilly Mac OS X conference a couple of days ago and saw > FastMac's booth selling upgrade cards. I have a 400 Mhz G4 Desktop > (AGP) machine. For $299 I can put in a 933Mhz card and postpone > getting a new machine. The 933 Mhz card doesn't appear on there > website, but they had them at the show. > http://www.fastmac.com/products/processors/agp.php > > Does this seems like a good idea? A bad idea? Does anyone have > experience with these cards? Everyone has their opinions, but my experience is that installing an upgrade card is asking for problems. You're basically creating a special case configuration. This can cause OS/software compatibility issues, as well as alter the equilibrium of heat management inside the case. It may be fine for machines that are going to be discarded anyway (nothing to lose), but I wouldn't recommend it for your primary workstation. The unfortunate problem is that people will install these cards, but forget to mention it as a factor when seeking help on support forums. - Scott From sstevenson at mac.com Sun Nov 2 21:07:23 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: my signing problem resolved. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 31, 2003, at 11:39 AM, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > I think if it's causing data loss for any reason other than operator > error (forgetting the password) then it's unfortunately NRFPT - this > being my first use of that term. Yeah -- I didn't realize at the time that data loss was involved. I retract my statement. :) - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Nov 2 21:16:35 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Microsoft Launches Portable Music Player In-Reply-To: References: <890F12F2-0BCD-11D8-8B27-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> Message-ID: On Oct 31, 2003, at 12:30 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > On Oct 31, 2003, at 11:10 AM, Michael Winter wrote: > >> >> On Oct 31, 2003, at 1:41 AM, j o a r wrote: >>> So, Microsoft decides to make not only software, but also hardware, >>> for yet another market segment (following cell phones and game >>> consoles). >> >> From the article, it doesn't sound like MS is making the hardware, >> just the software. A couple of quotes from the article, > > I think you are right. I would bet that this is a WindowsCE (excuse > me, pocket pc or whatever) version for music players... Chad From larkost at softhome.net Sun Nov 2 21:26:56 2003 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: <8C99DF54-0BCF-11D8-A1CC-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> Message-ID: <39BCFF96-0BE5-11D8-81E1-000393038B4E@softhome.net> I posted this earlier.. but here it is again: http://www.crazyapplerumors.com/ 2003_10_26_archive.htm#106735930837728612 Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net On Friday, October 31, 2003, at 01:25 PM, Al Gore wrote: >> So Apple didn't credit LiteSwitch from whom they stole the idea from. >> The LiteSwitch developers didn't credit M$ from whom they stole the >> idea >> from. M$ never did credit DESQview from whom they stole the idea >> from. >> >> What a crazy world. > > Yes. And none of them credited _ME_. > > Cheers, > Al From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Sun Nov 2 21:28:04 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Microsoft Launches Portable Music Player In-Reply-To: References: <890F12F2-0BCD-11D8-8B27-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> Message-ID: <152C142F-0BE6-11D8-9E70-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Here's the critical piece of information: "Portable Media Center devices are expected to be available in the second half of 2004, Microsoft said." So, are all those kids (and grownups) wanting an iPod for Christmas this year gonna say "Nah, just wait 'til second half of 2004 and see if this MS RUN PMC thing is any good"? No, I don't think so, either. What a bunch of major capital-L-on-the-forehead losers. First they're touting features in an OS to be released in 2006 their competitors have today. Now they're trying to sell a media player platform that MIGHT be out second half next year. Furthermore, notice the emphasis on music AND photos AND videos in one device? The iPod is successful because it does one thing really well. Yeah, you can download pictures onto it now, but that's really just using it as a hard drive, not for viewing. How did this group manage to take over the world, anyway? -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1093 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/b7ea5255/attachment.bin From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 2 21:44:21 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 31 Oct 2003, at 20:53, Dan Gaters wrote: > "rogerhoward@mac.com" wrote: > >>> FontBook *is* crippleware, as I'm certain Apple is capable of making >>> a far, >>> far better font management app, even for the non-designers among us. > >> FontBook is a very basic, yet obviously working attempt... > > No, Denying my opinion? That's not like you! > it's an app released before it's ready to serve the niche it purports > to. Its feature set is crippled and it has many app design flaws, some > at > the 101 level. Tell me, Dan, what is the 101 level? The author of the review below doesn't recommend FontBook to "manage a large and complicated font collection" like that of a designer and in fact he says: "If you feel your fonts are secure, but want to shorten their overly long list occasionally; or you want to make some fonts available to your Classic environment; or just want to look at font samples every now and then; or install the odd new font once every blue moon ? then rejoice: Font Book may be just for you." So, it's a basic but obviously working attempt. Did you read the review? > I could detail the shortcomings but You haven't the imagination? > this account makes a pretty decent attempt: Apart from the features the author was "unable to test, so that can perhaps make it useful in circumstances I haven't been able to verify." > Panther In Depth: Not Fond of Font Book > andras_fontbook_031029.sh > tml> And if you'd use a non-sucky email program or email server then your URLs wouldn't consistently be borked when you send them. M From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 2 21:47:35 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: <267A0DA8-0BED-11D8-9E70-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <32DEE30B-07FB-11D8-820E-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <267A0DA8-0BED-11D8-9E70-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <8B829C16-0BEE-11D8-AD0D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 31 Oct 2003, at 21:56, Jim Rankin wrote: > > On Oct 26, 2003, at 4:27 PM, Matt wrote: > >> [1] Coming to you, this summer, 2025. >> > Brilliant marketing. Now that you've pre-announced your product, but > haven't told anyone what it is, all the rest of us developers must > deal with the fear, uncertainty, and doubt, that whatever we release > will soon be upstaged by you in the year 2025! Right out of the > Microsoft playbook. > > Curse you! Well, I can also guarantee that it'll be 50% cheaper. Ph34R!!! M -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From sstevenson at mac.com Sun Nov 2 21:50:10 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: References: <30D09CEC-0B02-11D8-8B96-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <6C688284-0B8B-11D8-8923-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: <1B934CEA-0BEF-11D8-BF96-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Oct 31, 2003, at 9:50 AM, steve harley wrote: > just to be even more pessimistic, perhaps Proteron is the > shrewd corp here.. publicity equals sales and all that, plus > the memo could be intended to establish a public record of > the situation while Proteron explores legal recourse I guess it's a possibility, but it would be a horrible strategy because they have absolutely no case. There's nothing they can claim ownership of. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Sun Nov 2 22:01:43 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: <8C99DF54-0BCF-11D8-A1CC-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> References: <8D3E8818-0B9D-11D8-A13D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <20031031172335.GA385@Dark-Age.local> <8C99DF54-0BCF-11D8-A1CC-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> Message-ID: <3C3805E5-0BEF-11D8-9E70-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Oct 31, 2003, at 1:25 PM, Al Gore wrote: > Yes. And none of them credited _ME_. > Stop bawlin'. They put you on the board, didn't they? -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html From rogerhoward at mac.com Sun Nov 2 22:05:22 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01137477-0BF7-11D8-8091-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> On Friday, October 31, 2003, at 02:40 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 5:05 PM -0500 10/31/03, Dan Gaters wrote: >> "Mark F. Murphy" wrote: >> >>> Wanna start to attach small little sigs to each of our messages to >>> the list in order to help show how annoying these things can be? >> >> Why stop at "little" sigs? > > Indeed! > > Why not!? > > Perhaps instead of typing text in my messages, I'll make nice little > PDFs and do really nice formatted text... suitable for people to print > out in case they want to keep nicely formatted hard copies of my > posts. > > I think doing PDF emails will add much more value to the members of > the list... and it frees me from having to author in this feeble mail > client of mine.... and I can do exact WYSIWYG graphics! Mark, stop it now - look who you're egging on. Love, Roger From guy.english at sympatico.ca Sun Nov 2 22:12:01 2003 From: guy.english at sympatico.ca (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: FireWire 800 Drives Message-ID: <73818CBE-0DC3-11D8-8F9E-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Hi everyone, With all this ruckus about Panther killing FireWire 800 drives I thought, "Hey, I need on of those". I've been shuffling lots of stuff back and forth from my desktop to my iBook recently with all the Panther seeds and I've decided to just invest in a real drive instead of using the iBook in target disk mode half the time. What I'd like to know is which models people recommend. I'm quite taken with the LaCie Porsche designed drives. Mostly because they look pretty and I'm a bit of a sucker for that. My current desktop is a dual 450 G4 ( so FireWire 400 ) but I'd like a drive that will do either 800 or 400 so when I get my G5 it can take advantage of the FireWire 800 onboard. Any suggestions? Thanks, Guy From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Sun Nov 2 22:15:00 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: References: <15971B74-0BC8-11D8-AC8D-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031101011416.GB1221@Dark-Age.local> On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 03:53:25PM -0500, Dan Gaters wrote: : "rogerhoward@mac.com" wrote: : >someone else said: : >> : >> FontBook *is* crippleware, as I'm certain Apple is capable of : >> making a far, far better font management app, even for the : >> non-designers among us. : > : > FontBook is a very basic, yet obviously working attempt... : : No, it's an app released before it's ready to serve the niche it : purports to. No, it's an app to provide basic font management. It's not designed to serve professional users. Then again, if Font Book did provide all the features of other font management apps like Suitcase and ATM, then you would probably accuse Apple of infringing on 3rd-party products. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Nov 2 22:35:08 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: FastMac 933Mhz upgrade card In-Reply-To: <4E66AD1A-0BDE-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <4E66AD1A-0BDE-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: On Oct 31, 2003, at 1:10 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Oct 31, 2003, at 10:17 AM, Chuck Soper wrote: > >> I was at the O'Reilly Mac OS X conference a couple of days ago and >> saw FastMac's booth selling upgrade cards. I have a 400 Mhz G4 >> Desktop (AGP) machine. For $299 I can put in a 933Mhz card and >> postpone getting a new machine. The 933 Mhz card doesn't appear on >> there website, but they had them at the show. >> http://www.fastmac.com/products/processors/agp.php >> >> Does this seems like a good idea? A bad idea? Does anyone have >> experience with these cards? > > Everyone has their opinions, but my experience is that installing an > upgrade card is asking for problems. You're basically creating a > special case configuration. This can cause OS/software compatibility > issues, as well as alter the equilibrium of heat management inside the > case. In my practical experience, including running one (800 mhz powerlogix) in my frankenmac for almost a year, there is no practical effect. My dad also upgraded from 500mhz to 1400mhz and has had no problems including heat problems. They are real honest G4 cpus and the system recognizes them just fine. Just check xlr8yourmac.com and other places to see if this brand is any good. best Chad > > It may be fine for machines that are going to be discarded anyway > (nothing to lose), but I wouldn't recommend it for your primary > workstation. The unfortunate problem is that people will install these > cards, but forget to mention it as a factor when seeking help on > support forums. > > - Scott > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From mic at micmac.com Sun Nov 2 23:13:38 2003 From: mic at micmac.com (Michel Coste) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <629805D9-0CEE-11D8-AF22-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <80D6CF1E-0DCB-11D8-B143-000502478B8F@micmac.com> On Sunday, November 2, 2003, at 05:38 AM, Dave Schroeder wrote: > Digital signatures can and should be just as integral to a message as > the From field, Date, or Subject. Some might argue they're > superfluous. Some might also argue that certain elements of the header > are also superfluous. Digital signatures are going to quickly become a > standard way of identifying the message sender, in any setting, casual > or no. So rightly said! By the way, though your interesting message is quite long, it happens that the headers are almost as long! Your message: 4883 bytes The headers (and mailing list signature): 4436 bytes. The intolerant (and stupid) people should think about that! They also should look at what headers look like: From: Dave Schroeder Date: Sun Nov 2, 2003 5:38:20 AM Europe/Paris To: Peter Apockotos Cc: macosx-talk@omnigroup.com, "Mark F. Murphy" Subject: Re: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 Return-Path: Delivered-To: online.fr-osxlists@free.fr Received: (qmail 23436 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2003 04:43:58 -0000 Received: from slowbro.omnigroup.com (198.151.161.41) by mrelay3-2.free.fr with SMTP; 2 Nov 2003 04:43:58 -0000 Received: from omnigroup.com (mailman@omnigroup.com [198.151.161.1]) by slowbro.omnigroup.com (8.12.7/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hA24hvHs006102; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:43:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp3.doit.wisc.edu (blitzen.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.183]) by omnigroup.com (8.10.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id hA24cLN15905 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:38:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from conversion-daemon.smtp3.doit.wisc.edu by smtp3.doit.wisc.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.20 (built Aug 27 2003)) id <0HNP00001IGGIR@smtp3.doit.wisc.edu> for macosx-talk@omnigroup.com; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 22:38:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (vrnawibas01-pool0-a254.vrnawi.tds.net [69.21.104.254]) by smtp3.doit.wisc.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.20 (built Aug 27 2003)) with ESMTPSA id <0HNP00330JJWZT@smtp3.doit.wisc.edu>; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 22:38:20 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> Message-Id: <629805D9-0CEE-11D8-AF22-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <96286EF6-0CB4-11D8-92D5-000A95935598@kreme.com> <71B630F4-0CB8-11D8-8726-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <8082E323-0CE0-11D8-A52E-000393A759E4@mac.com> Sender: macosx-talk-admin@omnigroup.com Errors-To: macosx-talk-admin@omnigroup.com X-Beenthere: macosx-talk@omnigroup.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Discussions of Mac OS X List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 22:38:20 -0600 _______________________________________________ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk By the way I'm connected at 40000 bps only and don't mind about this? mc michel coste mic@micmac.com http://www.micmac.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031102/f6a1884b/PGP.bin From guy.english at sympatico.ca Sun Nov 2 23:48:02 2003 From: guy.english at sympatico.ca (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Educate me: Font Management Message-ID: <1E8E394A-0DC3-11D8-8F9E-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Hi all, What's the big deal with Font Management anyway? I understand the mechanics of it but I'm not sure why one would care to activate or deactivate fonts all the time. I imagine there's a pretty good reason because people really seem to get emotional about it. Why is Font Book considered bad? Why is Suitcase so much better? Don't get me wrong, some of my best friends are designers, but I don't understand this dark and looming font problem. Guy From nadeama2 at videotron.ca Mon Nov 3 00:02:02 2003 From: nadeama2 at videotron.ca (Martin Nadeau) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Little Panther annoyances Message-ID: Hi, Well, I've installed Panther last night, and I must say that so far I really like it. I must have activated Fast User Switching about 15 times just to see the effect. :-) However, there are a few things that have annoyed me a little: - I've had a few system freezes and had to do cold restarts. One time was when trying to wake from sleep; the screen just stayed black. Another time, I tried to use the contextual menu in the Finder, and the beach-ball started spinning and the Finder just wouldn't force-quit. I don't remember what caused the other one or two freezes. BTW, this is a clean install after initializing the drive. - Sherlock now includes a collection of third-party channels, which is really nice. However, a few of these channels are not working and have actually been broken for quite a few months now. I understand that it's not really Apple's responsibility, but one would think that they would at least have checked and made sure that all the channels were working at least for the initial release of Panther. - Dragging items to and from the Desktop seems quite a bit slower than before. For example, when dragging a file from the Desktop to the Trash, there is a one second delay before the file disappears from the Desktop (is anybody else seeing this?). - The animation when scrolling a window by dragging the scrollbar doesn't seem nearly as "smooth" as before. There is a kind of jerky, or rather "wavy" effect (it's a bit hard to describe). In fact, it looks a little like scrolling in OS 9 with hardware acceleration extensions turned off. It doesn't happen all the time, but often. Does anyone else see this? Maybe it's related to computer and video card models? I have a G4 MDD with a Radeon 9000 Pro. - In Mail, the "Get New Mail" toolbar button now gets new mail in all accounts, even if the "Include when automatically checking for mail" option is unchecked. I have 2 accounts, one of which I don't check all that often. I used to press the get new mail button to get mail only from my main account, and then go to the Mailbox menu to occasionally get mail from the second account. I could always put it offline, but putting it back online and then checking mail is one more step than before. Not a big deal, but just a little annoying. I've kind of fixed the problem by using the new System Preferences feature for adding a special keyboard shortcut for my main account. I love that feature. That's about it. -- Martin Nadeau From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Nov 3 00:50:13 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031031, 21:46 +0000, they whom i call Matt wrote: >On 31 Oct 2003, at 20:53, Dan Gaters wrote: >>>tml> > >And if you'd use a non-sucky email program or email server then your >URLs wouldn't consistently be borked when you send them. you are right that format=flowed proscribes such, but the angle-brackets tell compliant email clients to unbork them.. the above URL functions fine in Eudora & Mail -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Nov 3 00:50:52 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Educate me: Font Management In-Reply-To: <1E8E394A-0DC3-11D8-8F9E-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> References: <1E8E394A-0DC3-11D8-8F9E-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: at 20031103, 01:01 -0500, they whom i call Guy English wrote: > What's the big deal with Font Management anyway? I understand the >mechanics of it but I'm not sure why one would care to activate or >deactivate fonts all the time. first, it's not just activation management.. professional font managers allow the user to filter, inspect and validate fonts, to print reports, and sometimes to centrally manage fonts in a networked environment.. these are time-saving and accuracy-improving features as for activation/deactivation, in some environments you simply have to do a lot of this.. activating all fonts in a library generally isn't desirable (makes font menus unusable in non-Cocoa apps, for one thing).. fonts are often supplied by clients, and must be used in lieue of same-named fonts (PDF workflow obviates some of this).. auto-activation is a big time-saver where appropriate > Why is Font Book considered bad? Why is Suitcase so much better? it's not that it's "bad" (imo), but it's got some major bugs, and it's got only a subset of professional features.. for casual inspection and activation it should work fine after a solid release is achieved, and Font Book seems to have a good paradigm.. but Apple has positioned Font Book poorly by hinting at professional usage.. or maybe Apple is squatting in the middle ground, ready to ramp up the features if Extensis and Insider can't get it together.. in any case the significant issues are 1) bugs and 2) confusion about whether it's for professionals -- steve harley From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 3 00:57:29 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Mail problem ...was Re: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6C31377E-0DDB-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 3 Nov 2003, at 08:25, steve harley wrote: > at 20031031, 21:46 +0000, they whom i call Matt wrote: >> On 31 Oct 2003, at 20:53, Dan Gaters wrote: >>> >> andras_fontbook_031029.sh >>> tml> >> >> And if you'd use a non-sucky email program or email server then your >> URLs wouldn't consistently be borked when you send them. > > you are right that format=flowed proscribes such, but the > angle-brackets tell compliant email clients to unbork them.. > the above URL functions fine in Eudora & Mail Then I guess Cricket and Paul have some work to do in Mail to cope with sucky mail clients. M From ian at SKYLIST.net Mon Nov 3 01:09:00 2003 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: References: <36DCAC70-0AFE-11D8-8092-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> Message-ID: <41ECE336-0DDD-11D8-8354-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> On Oct 30, 2003, at 2:28 PM, steve harley wrote: > Apple apparently agreed.. there > are several other app-switching UIs it could have copied, > but it copied Proteron's Excuse me, but do you have any evidence that they copied Proteron? Proteron's app used Apple's design themes that were already heavily ingrained into OS X. I think it is much more likely that Apple did that design on their own and they just happened to look the same, given the simplicity of the design and the fact that Apple had already done other UI elements in the same way. Ian From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 3 01:10:03 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: neat expose hack Message-ID: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool false; killall Dock I think I'll keep this... -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From kremels at kreme.com Mon Nov 3 01:12:14 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Microsoft Launches Portable Music Player In-Reply-To: <152C142F-0BE6-11D8-9E70-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <890F12F2-0BCD-11D8-8B27-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> <152C142F-0BE6-11D8-9E70-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <8A6FB2F6-0DDD-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 31 Oct 2003, at 14:06, Jim Rankin wrote: > How did this group manage to take over the world, anyway? Lying, cheating, and stealing. How else? -- Hey, baby, I've got just the cure for that penis envy back at my apartment... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031103/3a53e9c1/smime.bin From mark at imap-partners.net Mon Nov 3 01:12:50 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Mail problem ...was Re: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: <6C31377E-0DDB-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <6C31377E-0DDB-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <9C47B9FE-0DDD-11D8-A11E-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> On 3 Nov 2003, at 9:55, Matt wrote: > Then I guess Cricket and Paul have some work to do in Mail to cope > with sucky mail clients. I'm not sure that any of the main clients suck in this respect. If you are using Mail, your only problem will be with _people_ who have set their client to hard-wrap outgoing messages. As Steve says, if the appropriate delimiters are present, all clients _should_ recognise the complete url even if it contains one or more line breaks. I haven't really looked into whether this is broken in Mail or not, but from what you say... Are there really any mainstream clients that hard-wrap and don't provide an option not to ? I don't know of any. mark. From kremels at kreme.com Mon Nov 3 01:18:01 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: FastMac 933Mhz upgrade card In-Reply-To: References: <4E66AD1A-0BDE-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <82C76E86-0DDE-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 02 Nov 2003, at 23:34, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > On Oct 31, 2003, at 1:10 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > >> >> On Oct 31, 2003, at 10:17 AM, Chuck Soper wrote: >> >>> I was at the O'Reilly Mac OS X conference a couple of days ago and >>> saw FastMac's booth selling upgrade cards. I have a 400 Mhz G4 >>> Desktop (AGP) machine. For $299 I can put in a 933Mhz card and >>> postpone getting a new machine. The 933 Mhz card doesn't appear on >>> there website, but they had them at the show. >>> http://www.fastmac.com/products/processors/agp.php >>> >>> Does this seems like a good idea? A bad idea? Does anyone have >>> experience with these cards? >> >> Everyone has their opinions, but my experience is that installing an >> upgrade card is asking for problems. You're basically creating a >> special case configuration. This can cause OS/software compatibility >> issues, as well as alter the equilibrium of heat management inside >> the case. > > In my practical experience, including running one (800 mhz powerlogix) > in my frankenmac for almost a year, there is no practical effect. My > dad also upgraded from 500mhz to 1400mhz and has had no problems > including heat problems. They are real honest G4 cpus and the system > recognizes them just fine. I wish they had a dual upgrade. Anyone know if it possible to "upgrade" a dual machine to a single processor? I could use 1.2Ghz or so in my machine... -- Hey, baby, I've got just the cure for that penis envy back at my apartment... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031103/886c5b13/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Mon Nov 3 01:22:01 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Little Panther annoyances In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11F62F72-0DDF-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 03 Nov 2003, at 00:59, Martin Nadeau wrote: > - Sherlock now includes a collection of third-party channels, which is > really nice. However, a few of these channels are not working and have > actually been broken for quite a few months now. I understand that > it's not really Apple's responsibility, but one would think that they > would at least have checked and made sure that all the channels were > working at least for the initial release of Panther. It what? Where? -- and I swear it happened just like this: / a sigh, a cry, a hungry kiss / the Gates of Love they budged an inch / I can't say much has happened since / but CLOSING TIME From kremels at kreme.com Mon Nov 3 01:23:11 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Educate me: Font Management In-Reply-To: <1E8E394A-0DC3-11D8-8F9E-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> References: <1E8E394A-0DC3-11D8-8F9E-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <30C77E3A-0DDF-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 02 Nov 2003, at 23:01, Guy English wrote: > What's the big deal with Font Management anyway? I understand the > mechanics of it but I'm not sure why one would care to activate or > deactivate fonts all the time. I imagine there's a pretty good reason > because people really seem to get emotional about it. Ever scrolled a font menu with 1500 fonts in it? -- Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Mon Nov 3 01:33:13 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: <41ECE336-0DDD-11D8-8354-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> References: <36DCAC70-0AFE-11D8-8092-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> <41ECE336-0DDD-11D8-8354-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: > Apple apparently agreed.. there > are several other app-switching UIs it could have copied, > but it copied Proteron's Oh come ON! Apple already had the SAME ALT-TAB based program switcher in Mac OS References: Message-ID: <0B8662C1-0DEA-11D8-83BD-000393DB5348@mac.com> On 27 Oct 2003, at 8:33 pm, steve harley wrote: > Adobe seems to have done this on purpose to help drive > Acrobat Pro sales.. it used to work in version 5.. there is > a workaround: save as a PostScript file and use the > ghostscript ps2pdf to convert to PDF.. i found this didn't > work unless i used a Distiller PPD (i created a dummy > printer instance using the PPD for Distiller 5).. i set it > to output PDF 1.4.. got good results BTW: we don't need Ghostscript any more in Panther - Preview will render raw PostScript files as PDFs (very useful feature, particularly if you're trying to create PDFs from a Classic program and don't have Acrobat installed)... Alex From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 3 02:44:03 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X Message-ID: <643CBF80-0DEA-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> A friend of mine[1] is going to the US with his powerbook for the first time. Any caveats he needs to be aware of? I've never travelled to the US with a powerbook though I've *done* Europe. He's going to Seattle/Tacoma for most of the trip and with a one day stopover in Central Wisconsin - as he's a bit of tech noob, I was wondering if anyone knew where he could get some cheap WiFi for getting his emails (rather than worrying about changing his network locations for dial-up). M [1] Famous guitar maker dude. Kevin may have heard of him. -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Mon Nov 3 03:02:04 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <643CBF80-0DEA-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <643CBF80-0DEA-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: > A friend of mine[1] is going to the US with his powerbook for the > first time. Any caveats he needs to be aware of? I've never travelled > to the US with a powerbook though I've *done* Europe. He would just need the physical adapter for US power outlets. The power cord admits all kind of currents, so no much problem there. Phone (for the modem, if he needs it) will be the same (just be sure not to connect to a digital line -like in Europe-). > He's going to Seattle/Tacoma for most of the trip and with a one day > stopover in Central Wisconsin - as he's a bit of tech noob, I was > wondering if anyone knew where he could get some cheap WiFi for > getting his emails (rather than worrying about changing his network > locations for dial-up). Starbucks. They have a WiFi guide in their site, me thinks. I am sure Seattle has plenty of locations (not as much as Manhattan, but plenty). Kevin will be able to help you there, since he's located around there. Nothing to worry about, really. j. From aslakr at idi.ntnu.no Mon Nov 3 03:25:13 2003 From: aslakr at idi.ntnu.no (Aslak Raanes) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: NAT and FTP In-Reply-To: References: <425763.1067546330686.JavaMail.cwilbur@mac.com> Message-ID: <5348DA86-0DF0-11D8-B902-00039364C786@idi.ntnu.no> P? 30. okt 2003 kl. 23.02 skrev mark: > On 30 Oct 2003, at 21:38, Charlton Wilbur wrote: > >> FTP is a protocol designed before the days of NAT, and shows it. > > thanks for a very informative post Charlton. Thing is, I've got > passive FTP set on both machines and still no dice. That only works if your server is not behind NAT, or you can use a server that make it is possible to define which ports for the server to use and config your NAT acording to that. One example is proftpd . -- Vennlig hilsen Aslak Raanes, tlf. jobb: 735 98728, tlf. mobil: 952 48 841 From fabienlroy at mac.com Mon Nov 3 04:08:01 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <426ACC0D-0DF6-11D8-B01B-000393658196@mac.com> Installation of an Airport Card is highly recommended (if not already installed). And as Jes?s said Starbuck is a good place to start. Also selecting an hotel with WiFi is the way to go also. Fabien On Monday, Nov 3, 2003, at 03:00 America/Los_Angeles, Jes?s D?az wrote: >> A friend of mine[1] is going to the US with his powerbook for the >> first time. Any caveats he needs to be aware of? I've never travelled >> to the US with a powerbook though I've *done* Europe. > > He would just need the physical adapter for US power outlets. The > power cord admits all kind of currents, so no much problem there. > > Phone (for the modem, if he needs it) will be the same (just be sure > not to connect to a digital line -like in Europe-). > >> He's going to Seattle/Tacoma for most of the trip and with a one day >> stopover in Central Wisconsin - as he's a bit of tech noob, I was >> wondering if anyone knew where he could get some cheap WiFi for >> getting his emails (rather than worrying about changing his network >> locations for dial-up). > > Starbucks. They have a WiFi guide in their site, me thinks. I am sure > Seattle has plenty of locations (not as much as Manhattan, but > plenty). Kevin will be able to help you there, since he's located > around there. > > Nothing to worry about, really. > > j. > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From mikecap at mac.com Mon Nov 3 06:34:36 2003 From: mikecap at mac.com (Michael Caplinger) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: FireWire 800 Drives In-Reply-To: <73818CBE-0DC3-11D8-8F9E-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> References: <73818CBE-0DC3-11D8-8F9E-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <94007A56-0E0A-11D8-8ED6-0003938AC5DA@mac.com> I have 2 FW 800 drives from OWC, www.otherworldcomputing.com and several older FW 400 drives. I'm quite happy with them, and OWC has great customer service. But the drives are not as pretty as the LaCie drives! (They are cheaper though) Mike Caplinger System Administrator Dept of Physics and Astronomy University of Georgia (706)542-3622 mikecap@uga.edu On Nov 3, 2003, at 1:03 AM, Guy English wrote: > Hi everyone, > > With all this ruckus about Panther killing FireWire 800 drives I > thought, "Hey, I need on of those". I've been shuffling lots of stuff > back and forth from my desktop to my iBook recently with all the > Panther seeds and I've decided to just invest in a real drive instead > of using the iBook in target disk mode half the time. > > What I'd like to know is which models people recommend. I'm quite > taken with the LaCie Porsche designed drives. Mostly because they look > pretty and I'm a bit of a sucker for that. My current desktop is a > dual 450 G4 ( so FireWire 400 ) but I'd like a drive that will do > either 800 or 400 so when I get my G5 it can take advantage of the > FireWire 800 onboard. Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > Guy > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From andyring at inebraska.com Mon Nov 3 06:50:09 2003 From: andyring at inebraska.com (Andy Ringsmuth) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Change desktop font size Message-ID: I need to figure out how to change the font size used on icons on the desktop. I've been an OS X user since day one, but not had a need to change it until now. A co-worker is visually impaired, and the best way to help him with OS X is to increase that font size. It was easy in OS 9, but I can't figure out how in X. I don't mind if it involves editing config files in Terminal. -Andy From seiryu at comcast.net Mon Nov 3 06:55:02 2003 From: seiryu at comcast.net (Nick Zitzmann) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Change desktop font size In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A71457A-0E0D-11D8-BF61-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> On Nov 3, 2003, at 6:49 AM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > I need to figure out how to change the font size used on icons on the > desktop. I've been an OS X user since day one, but not had a need to > change it until now. A co-worker is visually impaired, and the best > way to help him with OS X is to increase that font size. Did you try showing the view options from the "View" menu in the Finder? Nick Zitzmann AIM/iChat: dragonsdontsleep Check out my software page: http://seiryu.home.comcast.net/ S/MIME signature available upon request "I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone." - Bjarne Stroustrup From colin.bradley at proact.net Mon Nov 3 06:58:24 2003 From: colin.bradley at proact.net (Colin Bradley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Change desktop font size In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA66CDA.9060009@proact.net> Hi Andy, I'm at work at the moment so I can't check easily, but I think you should just be able to do a command-j on the desktop (View menu, "Show View Options") and choose it in there. hth, Col Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > I need to figure out how to change the font size used on icons on the > desktop. I've been an OS X user since day one, but not had a need to > change it until now. A co-worker is visually impaired, and the best way > to help him with OS X is to increase that font size. > > It was easy in OS 9, but I can't figure out how in X. I don't mind if > it involves editing config files in Terminal. > > > > -Andy > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > -- Col Bradley [colin.bradley@proact.net] Development From andyring at inebraska.com Mon Nov 3 07:09:09 2003 From: andyring at inebraska.com (Andy Ringsmuth) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Change desktop font size In-Reply-To: <8A71457A-0E0D-11D8-BF61-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> References: <8A71457A-0E0D-11D8-BF61-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 8:53 AM, Nick Zitzmann wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 6:49 AM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > >> I need to figure out how to change the font size used on icons on the >> desktop. I've been an OS X user since day one, but not had a need to >> change it until now. A co-worker is visually impaired, and the best >> way to help him with OS X is to increase that font size. > > Did you try showing the view options from the "View" menu in the > Finder? > > Nick Zitzmann > AIM/iChat: dragonsdontsleep > Check out my software page: http://seiryu.home.comcast.net/ > S/MIME signature available upon request > > "I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my > telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my > telephone." - Bjarne Stroustrup That'll let me go up to 16, but I need to go bigger than that, say 18 or 20. -Andy From markm at tyrell.com Mon Nov 3 07:35:15 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: .NET a Lock-In To Windows, Perhaps Not... In-Reply-To: <20031103014108.QRJQ1849.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> References: <20031103014108.QRJQ1849.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: At 8:41 PM -0500 11/2/03, Bill Coleman wrote: >Of course, converting to .NET means a complete lock-in to Windows and >Microsoft. Trouble is, Microsoft is going to deliver tools to make it so >terribly easy to do. There's an article in the most recent MacTech which describes how .NET can run on other platforms. Not sure how real this is... or if it would ever take hold outside of the Win platform, but if it is real enough and does take hold, being .NET may not be the Win lock-in expected. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Nov 3 07:47:07 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <426ACC0D-0DF6-11D8-B01B-000393658196@mac.com> References: <426ACC0D-0DF6-11D8-B01B-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 4:07 AM, Fabien Roy wrote: > Installation of an Airport Card is highly recommended (if not already > installed). And as Jes?s said Starbuck is a good place to start. Also > selecting an hotel with WiFi is the way to go also. Yup, when I travel (or even around town) my T-Mobile wifi account is indispensable - every Starbucks I've been to in the past year (other than a few inside grocery stores and other mini locations) has wifi, and in Seattle you should have zero problem finding one - it IS the home town of Starbucks after all. $29/mo unlimited time (there are bandwidth limits) for nationwide access. I keep an account just in case. -R From osx_rand at mac.com Mon Nov 3 08:01:02 2003 From: osx_rand at mac.com (osx_rand) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <200311022015.hA2KFSHs001974@slowbro.omnigroup.com> References: <200311022015.hA2KFSHs001974@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: Actually there is one thing your overlooking : those who get this list in digest mode, get the '2k' signed attachment as text added in on the end of that particular email. It's a tad annoying. On the senders side, it's rather easy to click the checkbox to turn off the sending of this attachment, I use it on other email address's, just not this one. rand On 02/11/2003, at 3:15 PM, macosx-talk-request@omnigroup.com wrote: No, I don''t care what mail client you use. However, IF the client you use spews the attachment contents onto your screen, the problem is not the attachment, it is your client. If the client you use simply shows a icon indicating an attachment, then your client is behaving correctly and that is a minimal impact. If you have a problem with that, the problem is with YOU and if it really bothers you, then get a client that supports s/mime. From pcoskren at mac.com Mon Nov 3 09:18:40 2003 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Font rendering in Panther Message-ID: <9D79E7C6-0E21-11D8-8374-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Hi, Am I just imagining it, or is the anti-aliasing on LCD screens in Panther a little nicer than it was in Jaguar? Looks lovely, in any event. -Patrick From osx_rand at mac.com Mon Nov 3 09:28:08 2003 From: osx_rand at mac.com (osx_rand) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: MacOSX-talk digest, Vol 1 #1342 - 101 msgs In-Reply-To: <200311030501.hA351Ex4010586@slowbro.omnigroup.com> References: <200311030501.hA351Ex4010586@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: As I mentioned on the other list, even for those using Mail this is a problem if we get this list in Digest mode. At the end of each signed email there is a page or so of garbled text. Not very pleasant. I would vote for those who are sending them to stop, or for the list server to strip/reject emails with attachments. rand On 03/11/2003, at 12:01 AM, macosx-talk-request@omnigroup.com wrote: If it came down to it, I'd probably vote for "stripping" rather than "rejecting" attachments. If, (and its a _big_ if) that is, any action is deemed necessary. There are a lot of Apple Mail users here and the S/Mime UI is so unobtrusive in Mail (that's intended as a compliment) that I bet rejecting messages with attachments on Omni lists would primarily generate discontent (too easy to forget to "unsign" messages to plain text lists (already bitten on Mailsmith-talk). The ability to include attachments is, e.g. also particularly useful on the OG-users list. From kcall at mac.com Mon Nov 3 09:49:40 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin C.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: <643CBF80-0DEA-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:00 AM, Jes?s D?az wrote: > Starbucks. They have a WiFi guide in their site, me thinks. I am sure > Seattle has plenty of locations (not as much as Manhattan, but > plenty). Kevin will be able to help you there, since he's located > around there. I think Starbucks might be $30 /month for wi-fi. They use T-Mobile, I believe. http://locations.hotspot.t-mobile.com/page6.asp?state=wa My neighbor says he pays $13/month for Tully's Coffee and Border's Books. Not sure what it is on a daily or hourly basis. http://tullys.com/stores/index.asp this is not likely up to date: hotspot search: Kevin From nadeama2 at videotron.ca Mon Nov 3 09:59:57 2003 From: nadeama2 at videotron.ca (Martin Nadeau) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Little Panther annoyances In-Reply-To: <11F62F72-0DDF-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <11F62F72-0DDF-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 03 Nov 2003, at 04:21, Lukreme wrote: > On 03 Nov 2003, at 00:59, Martin Nadeau wrote: >> - Sherlock now includes a collection of third-party channels, which >> is really nice. However, a few of these channels are not working and >> have actually been broken for quite a few months now. I understand >> that it's not really Apple's responsibility, but one would think that >> they would at least have checked and made sure that all the channels >> were working at least for the initial release of Panther. > > It what? > > Where? In Sherlock, click the Channels button in the toolbar. In the Collections sidebar, there will be a collection named "Other Channels". Click on this collection and Sherlock will download a bunch of third-party channels. Be warned that they don't all work correctly (but many do and can be quite useful). -- Martin Nadeau From nibs at mac.com Mon Nov 3 10:08:03 2003 From: nibs at mac.com (Marquis Logan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: PDF/X Message-ID: <5037676.1067882455763.JavaMail.nibs@mac.com> On Monday, October 27, 2003, at 10:53AM, David L?zaro Saz wrote: >Can somebody enlighten me on what is a PDF/X. I've read about it in >some brochures but have not been able to find where this format is >specified. > >Thank you beforehand, > >David. > it's mainly for color accurate document exchange. for prepress/printing and such. for a document to be pdf/x compatible it has to do things like embed fonts and define the media/trim/art boxes in the pdf. x-1a requires cmyk color data and x3 allows rgb and other colorspaces as long as they are tagged with icc profiles. quartz basically generates x-3 compliant files as long as you supply the necessary keys (see colorsync utility in panther). quartz (colorsync utility) could probably do x-1a as well if they forced it through a quartz filter that converted all the colorspaces to cmyk (if not already); but i don't believe that's an option at this point. the infrastructure is there however. nibs From lomion at mac.com Mon Nov 3 10:18:18 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <643CBF80-0DEA-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <643CBF80-0DEA-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <2D58721C-0E29-11D8-9986-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 5:42 AM, Matt wrote: > A friend of mine[1] is going to the US with his powerbook for the > first time. Any caveats he needs to be aware of? I've never travelled > to the US with a powerbook though I've *done* Europe. > > > He's going to Seattle/Tacoma for most of the trip and with a one day > stopover in Central Wisconsin - as he's a bit of tech noob, I was > wondering if anyone knew where he could get some cheap WiFi for > getting his emails (rather than worrying about changing his network > locations for dial-up). > About the only thing he will need is a power adapter converter to use us outlets for recharging. Otherwise he cna set timezone and all that easily. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031103/8db6eef0/smime.bin From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Mon Nov 3 10:21:13 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: .NET a Lock-In To Windows, Perhaps Not... In-Reply-To: References: <20031103014108.QRJQ1849.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: <9DAE7FFA-0E29-11D8-BB38-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 10:34 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > There's an article in the most recent MacTech which describes how .NET > can run on other platforms. > I haven't read this particular article, but I'm pretty sure the only thing that is close to being ported is the runtime. The interesting stuff, like data access, WinForms, etc. are not part of the open specification and there are no indications they will ever be ported outside of Windows. With Java, all of the important APIs run everywhere Java runs, more or less. That's an important difference. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html From pcoskren at mac.com Mon Nov 3 10:21:59 2003 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <8FCDC876-0E29-11D8-8374-000A9586BA18@mac.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 4:08 AM, Matt wrote: > defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool false; killall > Dock > > I think I'll keep this... Color me dense; I tried this, but can't see any change. What's it supposed to do? -Patrick From lomion at mac.com Mon Nov 3 10:26:13 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Font rendering in Panther In-Reply-To: <9D79E7C6-0E21-11D8-8374-000A9586BA18@mac.com> References: <9D79E7C6-0E21-11D8-8374-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: <53597390-0E29-11D8-9986-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 12:17 PM, Patrick Coskren wrote: > Hi, > > Am I just imagining it, or is the anti-aliasing on LCD screens in > Panther a little nicer than it was in Jaguar? Looks lovely, in any > event. > much nicer imho, I noticed the difference almost immediately. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031103/8aecf904/smime.bin From celkins at mac.com Mon Nov 3 10:27:22 2003 From: celkins at mac.com (Christopher Elkins) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Panther Mail In-Reply-To: <95F88622-08A1-11D8-8F2D-000393073BE6@apple.com> References: <56540020-065D-11D8-BA8E-000393C43C60@robburns.com> <2CA45359-0662-11D8-8DDE-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <194F3AC1-067A-11D8-9E7F-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <95F88622-08A1-11D8-8F2D-000393073BE6@apple.com> Message-ID: <56E00918-0E2A-11D8-8114-000393B7C8FA@mac.com> On Oct 27, 2003, at 9:18 AM, cricket wrote: > A workaround for you: > > - Launch Mail > - When the certificate panel comes up, hit cancel > - Wait until all background activity dies down > - Bring the account offline, then back online > > Now, option-dragging out the certificate should work without locking > up Mail. And another workaround (using /usr/bin/openssl): http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20031028154419136 -- Christopher Elkins From cjacobs at mac.com Mon Nov 3 10:37:36 2003 From: cjacobs at mac.com (Chuck Jacobs) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There are also a bunch of free 802.11 access points around. For example, the coffeeshop on my block has free wireless. Here are a couple of lists of free access points in the area: http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/WhereToGetOn http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/PublicAccessPointsThatWeDontRun --chuck On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 09:48 AM, Kevin C. wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:00 AM, Jes?s D?az wrote: > >> Starbucks. They have a WiFi guide in their site, me thinks. I am sure >> Seattle has plenty of locations (not as much as Manhattan, but >> plenty). Kevin will be able to help you there, since he's located >> around there. > > I think Starbucks might be $30 /month for wi-fi. They use T-Mobile, I > believe. > http://locations.hotspot.t-mobile.com/page6.asp?state=wa > > My neighbor says he pays $13/month for Tully's Coffee and Border's > Books. Not sure what it is on a daily or hourly basis. > http://tullys.com/stores/index.asp > > this is not likely up to date: > hotspot search: > searchresults.php?loc=&add=&city=seattle&st=Any&zip=&nld=0&country=Any& > tcom=yes&tpub=yes&protocol=1&submit=search> > > Kevin > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Mon Nov 3 10:42:02 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Microsoft switching to 'G5'? :) Message-ID: We live in strange times. Microsoft to use IBM chips in next Xbox d*g From ehrich at mninter.net Mon Nov 3 10:53:06 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: freeze bug Message-ID: With Jag my whole system sometimes froze when quitting VPC and saving its state. That seems to be fixed. Now the quit process pauses for 5 sec after saving and, so far, hasn't crashed. One bug fixed :-) (This is with VPC 5.0 which still works well enough.) -- Bill Ehrich From fabienlroy at mac.com Mon Nov 3 11:01:10 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Microsoft switching to 'G5'? :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <331FA952-0E2F-11D8-B01B-000393658196@mac.com> I really doubt that they are going to use the G5 (just take a look at the size of the heat sink :-) Fabien. On Monday, Nov 3, 2003, at 10:41 America/Los_Angeles, Dan Gaters wrote: > We live in strange times. > > Microsoft to use IBM chips in next Xbox > > > d*g > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From johannes at connected.ch Mon Nov 3 11:04:07 2003 From: johannes at connected.ch (Johannes Vetsch) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Change desktop font size In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <61B098F8-0E30-11D8-A361-000393764C26@connected.ch> Am Montag, 03.11.03 um 16:08 Uhr schrieb Andy Ringsmuth: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 8:53 AM, Nick Zitzmann wrote: > >> >> On Nov 3, 2003, at 6:49 AM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: >> >>> I need to figure out how to change the font size used on icons on >>> the desktop. I've been an OS X user since day one, but not had a >>> need to change it until now. A co-worker is visually impaired, and >>> the best way to help him with OS X is to increase that font size. >> >> Did you try showing the view options from the "View" menu in the >> Finder? >> >> Nick Zitzmann >> AIM/iChat: dragonsdontsleep >> Check out my software page: http://seiryu.home.comcast.net/ >> S/MIME signature available upon request >> >> "I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my >> telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my >> telephone." - Bjarne Stroustrup > There is a zoom function under "control panels" the tools under "input options" (the one with the little man on blueground) > That'll let me go up to 16, but I need to go bigger than that, say 18 > or 20. to set the font to 20 points I did the following: _ went to User/library/preferences/com.apple.finder.plist _ opened it with BBedit _ look for the following part it's pretty near the top _ change the number as seen below (underlined) _ save then you have to log out and in again and it changes on 20 points to have little bit more room on the desktop set the filename to the right of the icon not below edit CopyProgressWindowLocation 0, 44 DesktopViewOptions ArrangeBy kind BackgroundFlags 0 BackgroundType DefB FontSize 20 IconSize 16 PropertiesLocation rght ShowPreviewIcon ViewMoreInfo regards johannes > > > -Andy > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2391 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031103/55fba67e/attachment.bin From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Mon Nov 3 11:07:06 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Microsoft switching to 'G5'? :) In-Reply-To: <331FA952-0E2F-11D8-B01B-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: "Fabien Roy" wrote: > I really doubt that they are going to use the G5 (just take a look at > the size of the heat sink :-) You haven't seen the new MS ads: "Buy an Xbox, get a toaster free." d*g From johannes at connected.ch Mon Nov 3 11:37:08 2003 From: johannes at connected.ch (Johannes Vetsch) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: firewire 800 drives & panther: not good buds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7452CD30-0E34-11D8-A361-000393764C26@connected.ch> Am Montag, 03.11.03 um 01:23 Uhr schrieb Lukreme: > On 02 Nov 2003, at 10:28, Johannes Vetsch wrote: >> It's not only FW 800 Problem it also crashed my FW 400 200GB external. > > It is an Oxford 922 problem, tough it appears to also affect the later > Oxford 911's that support drives larger than 128GB. OTOH, it hasn't > affected my FW160GB on either of my Panther machines. For the moment I'm mailing with LaCie support. The strange thing on my system is that the directory of an old 45 MB drive was trashed in a similar way when I attached it to the 10.2.8 system (G3 B&W) to use it for data recovery of the 200 drive. And this 45 MB (certainly a 911) drive never came in touch with Panther not even a restart on 10.2.8..... So both disk were maybe trashed on this 10.2.8 system accidentally at the same time as I installed panther. At the moment I suspect either the bluetooth keyboard or the Acard ATA 66 PCI card on this machine doing the same "job" as Panther on newer machines. :-( At least I learned that two backups are better than one :-) johannes > > They also haven't been rebooted much (at least once each for the > security update though) > > -- > When the stars threw down their spears > And watered heaven with their tears, > Did He smile his work to see? > Did He who made the Lamb make thee? > From chad at objectwerks.com Mon Nov 3 11:53:20 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: FastMac 933Mhz upgrade card In-Reply-To: <82C76E86-0DDE-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <4E66AD1A-0BDE-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <82C76E86-0DDE-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 2:17 AM, Lukreme wrote: > > On 02 Nov 2003, at 23:34, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > >> >> On Oct 31, 2003, at 1:10 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> >>> >>> On Oct 31, 2003, at 10:17 AM, Chuck Soper wrote: >>> >>>> I was at the O'Reilly Mac OS X conference a couple of days ago and >>>> saw FastMac's booth selling upgrade cards. I have a 400 Mhz G4 >>>> Desktop (AGP) machine. For $299 I can put in a 933Mhz card and >>>> postpone getting a new machine. The 933 Mhz card doesn't appear on >>>> there website, but they had them at the show. >>>> http://www.fastmac.com/products/processors/agp.php >>>> >>>> Does this seems like a good idea? A bad idea? Does anyone have >>>> experience with these cards? >>> >>> Everyone has their opinions, but my experience is that installing an >>> upgrade card is asking for problems. You're basically creating a >>> special case configuration. This can cause OS/software compatibility >>> issues, as well as alter the equilibrium of heat management inside >>> the case. >> >> In my practical experience, including running one (800 mhz >> powerlogix) in my frankenmac for almost a year, there is no >> practical effect. My dad also upgraded from 500mhz to 1400mhz and >> has had no problems including heat problems. They are real honest G4 >> cpus and the system recognizes them just fine. > > I wish they had a dual upgrade. > Powerlogix has dual upgrades, and the newer 7547 based ones are supposed to be better than the previous ones. This is what I am saving my money for. The new powerlogiz dual 1200 is around $800 > Anyone know if it possible to "upgrade" a dual machine to a single > processor? Sure, all the cards, dual included, fit the same CPU slot and there is nothing "dual" about the motherboard except in some original AGP Mac mb where some of the support circuitry is borked. There is a utility that will check this for you. Chad > > I could use 1.2Ghz or so in my machine... > > -- > Hey, baby, I've got just the cure for that penis envy back at my > apartment... From chad at objectwerks.com Mon Nov 3 12:04:22 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: firewire 800 drives & panther: not good buds In-Reply-To: <7452CD30-0E34-11D8-A361-000393764C26@connected.ch> References: <7452CD30-0E34-11D8-A361-000393764C26@connected.ch> Message-ID: <116B3B9F-0E38-11D8-A6DB-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 12:32 PM, Johannes Vetsch wrote: > Am Montag, 03.11.03 um 01:23 Uhr schrieb Lukreme: > >> On 02 Nov 2003, at 10:28, Johannes Vetsch wrote: >>> It's not only FW 800 Problem it also crashed my FW 400 200GB >>> external. >> >> It is an Oxford 922 problem, tough it appears to also affect the >> later Oxford 911's that support drives larger than 128GB. OTOH, it >> hasn't affected my FW160GB on either of my Panther machines. > > For the moment I'm mailing with LaCie support. The strange thing on my > system is that the directory of an old 45 MB drive was trashed in a > similar way when I attached it to the 10.2.8 system (G3 B&W) to use it > for data recovery of the 200 drive. And this 45 MB (certainly a 911) > drive never came in touch with Panther not even a restart on > 10.2.8..... There was a note on one of the news sites that the bug is not just an Oxford 922 bug, but also in later revs of the Oxford 911 chips and not just in Panther... This is what I read somewhere, I don't have more details. But it gives you a start in googling... Chad From macosx at wooz.org Mon Nov 3 12:20:47 2003 From: macosx at wooz.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: FastMac 933Mhz upgrade card In-Reply-To: References: <4E66AD1A-0BDE-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <82C76E86-0DDE-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <1067890006.5173.342.camel@anthem> On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 14:49, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > Powerlogix has dual upgrades, and the newer 7547 based ones are > supposed to be better than the previous ones. This is what I am saving > my money for. The new powerlogiz dual 1200 is around $800 > > > Anyone know if it possible to "upgrade" a dual machine to a single > > processor? > > Sure, all the cards, dual included, fit the same CPU slot and there is > nothing "dual" about the motherboard except in some original AGP Mac mb > where some of the support circuitry is borked. There is a utility that > will check this for you. That's good to know. I'm thisssss close to upgrading my 533MHz single Digital Audio to a dual 1.2 or 1.4 PowerLogix card. The former is priced on their website at $799, the latter at $999. OS (Jaguar or Panther) shouldn't make a difference, right? -Barry From chad at objectwerks.com Mon Nov 3 12:24:40 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: FastMac 933Mhz upgrade card In-Reply-To: <1067890006.5173.342.camel@anthem> References: <4E66AD1A-0BDE-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <82C76E86-0DDE-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> <1067890006.5173.342.camel@anthem> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 1:06 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 14:49, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > >> Powerlogix has dual upgrades, and the newer 7547 based ones are >> supposed to be better than the previous ones. This is what I am >> saving >> my money for. The new powerlogiz dual 1200 is around $800 >> >>> Anyone know if it possible to "upgrade" a dual machine to a single >>> processor? >> >> Sure, all the cards, dual included, fit the same CPU slot and there is >> nothing "dual" about the motherboard except in some original AGP Mac >> mb >> where some of the support circuitry is borked. There is a utility >> that >> will check this for you. > > That's good to know. I'm thisssss close to upgrading my 533MHz single > Digital Audio to a dual 1.2 or 1.4 PowerLogix card. The former is > priced on their website at $799, the latter at $999. OS (Jaguar or > Panther) shouldn't make a difference, right? OS Shouldn't matter. I have a single 800 Powerlogix card and it did the upgrade just fine. These are basically drop in replacement G4 CPUs... The new 7457 based 1.4 duals are more like $1200 I believe, until chip availability goes up. The previous ones were 7455 based and had a tendency to run hot. Reviews say the new ones run much cooler. Chad > > -Barry > > From macosx at wooz.org Mon Nov 3 12:33:16 2003 From: macosx at wooz.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: FastMac 933Mhz upgrade card In-Reply-To: References: <4E66AD1A-0BDE-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <82C76E86-0DDE-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> <1067890006.5173.342.camel@anthem> Message-ID: <1067890661.5173.348.camel@anthem> On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 15:10, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > OS Shouldn't matter. I have a single 800 Powerlogix card and it did > the upgrade just fine. These are basically drop in replacement G4 > CPUs... The new 7457 based 1.4 duals are more like $1200 I believe, > until chip availability goes up. The previous ones were 7455 based and > had a tendency to run hot. Reviews say the new ones run much cooler. Good to know, thanks. -Barry From kremels at kreme.com Mon Nov 3 12:36:29 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <8FCDC876-0E29-11D8-8374-000A9586BA18@mac.com> References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <8FCDC876-0E29-11D8-8374-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: On 03 Nov 2003, at 11:14, Patrick Coskren wrote: > On Nov 3, 2003, at 4:08 AM, Matt wrote: > >> defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool false; killall >> Dock >> >> I think I'll keep this... Very nice! > Color me dense; I tried this, but can't see any change. What's it > supposed to do? Hit F11 -- Use your key, unlock the door, see what fate might have in store. Come explore your dreams and Creations, Enter the world of imagination. From kremels at kreme.com Mon Nov 3 12:44:22 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <643CBF80-0DEA-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <643CBF80-0DEA-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <72B06882-0E3B-11D8-B445-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 03 Nov 2003, at 03:42, Matt wrote: > A friend of mine[1] is going to the US with his powerbook for the > first time. Any caveats he needs to be aware of? I've never travelled > to the US with a powerbook though I've *done* Europe. > > > He's going to Seattle/Tacoma for most of the trip and with a one day > stopover in Central Wisconsin - as he's a bit of tech noob, I was > wondering if anyone knew where he could get some cheap WiFi for > getting his emails (rather than worrying about changing his network > locations for dial-up). Many many many coffee shops offer wifi. In fact of the three within walking distance of my office, two have wifi. and I'm not even in Seattle. -- There's a race of men that don't fit in, A race that can't stay still So they break the hearts of kith and kin, And they roam the world at will. From gdignard at tranquility.com Mon Nov 3 13:00:06 2003 From: gdignard at tranquility.com (Gilles Dignard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: <200311032011.hA3KBKe5017251@slowbro.omnigroup.com> References: <200311032011.hA3KBKe5017251@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:15:54 -0500, Joe Block wrote: >On Nov 1, 2003, at 11:38 PM, Dave Schroeder wrote: > > > On Nov 1, 2003, at 8:58 PM, Peter Apockotos wrote: > > > 2. At the recipient's end. > >Those of you who don't like x509 digital signatures, you can nuke all >messages containing them by creating a filter that looks for the line > >Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; > >in the message body and deletes them. > >For a variety of reasons, I prefer GPG to x509, but Apple and Microsoft >have both standardized on x509, and signed messages are going to become >more and more prevalent, whether we like it or not. The digital >signatures are coming, cope. > >If the list moderators choose to forbid digital signatures, I'd prefer >that they set the list software to strip incoming signature attachments >rather than bounce messages with them because people will occasionally >forget to uncheck the box if they sign most of their email, but that's >the mod's choice to make, not ours. > >I don't understand what the big deal is. If it just shows up as an >extra icon in the message header, just ignore it like we have to ignore >the tnef files outlook mail is polluted with. If you're that concerned >about clutter in your attachment folder, write a folder action to >automatically delete them, or make a cron job to delete them. Your analysis is oversimplistic in that it ignores those of us who read this in digest form. The incoming message contains up to a hundred messages or so. Writing a filter is not a workable solution, nor is forbidding digital sigs at all necessary. The answer to this is that the listserv should simply strip off all incoming attachments. Quite apart from the whole smime.p7 kerfuffle, it's generally a good idea, anyway. - Gilles From robert.palmer at ipix.com Mon Nov 3 13:10:04 2003 From: robert.palmer at ipix.com (Robert G Palmer Jr) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <8FCDC876-0E29-11D8-8374-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: And what is the write command to revert this to the original? On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:17 PM, Lukreme wrote: > On 03 Nov 2003, at 11:14, Patrick Coskren wrote: >> On Nov 3, 2003, at 4:08 AM, Matt wrote: >> >>> defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool false; killall >>> Dock >>> >>> I think I'll keep this... > > Very nice! > >> Color me dense; I tried this, but can't see any change. What's it >> supposed to do? > > Hit F11 > > -- > Use your key, unlock the door, see what fate might have in store. > Come explore your dreams and Creations, Enter the world of > imagination. > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 3 13:38:31 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <8FCDC876-0E29-11D8-8374-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: <3A5C83DA-0E45-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 3 Nov 2003, at 21:00, Robert G Palmer Jr wrote: >>>> defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool false; killall >>>> Dock defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool true; killall Dock A bit obvious really :) M -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From sstevenson at mac.com Mon Nov 3 13:40:44 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: <643CBF80-0DEA-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:00 AM, Jes?s D?az wrote: > Starbucks. They have a WiFi guide in their site, me thinks. I am sure > Seattle has plenty of locations (not as much as Manhattan, but > plenty). Kevin will be able to help you there, since he's located > around there. In California, Starbucks uses T-Mobile hotspots. I assume the same applies in Seattle, but don't know for sure. You'll need an account to use it. You might be able to sign up at Starbucks, but probably easier to do it beforehand. http://www.t-mobile.com/hotspot/ I've also seen them at Borders. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From pcoskren at mac.com Mon Nov 3 13:48:16 2003 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <8FCDC876-0E29-11D8-8374-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: <0D9FC57C-0E43-11D8-A3CE-000A9586BA18@mac.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:17 PM, Lukreme wrote: > On 03 Nov 2003, at 11:14, Patrick Coskren wrote: >> On Nov 3, 2003, at 4:08 AM, Matt wrote: >> >>> defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool false; killall >>> Dock >>> >>> I think I'll keep this... > > Very nice! > >> Color me dense; I tried this, but can't see any change. What's it >> supposed to do? > > Hit F11 Wow; that sure was cool. :-( My whole window set shrunk to one inch square. So I hit F11 again, it re-expanded, and the computer froze hard. Completely unresponsive: I had to restart. I don't *think* I had anything unsaved open. I guess now we know why this feature isn't documented. Sigh. This is on an 800 Mhz iBook. What's it supposed to do? -Patrick From chucks at lmi.net Mon Nov 3 13:54:12 2003 From: chucks at lmi.net (Chuck Soper) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: FastMac 933Mhz upgrade card In-Reply-To: <1067890006.5173.342.camel@anthem> References: <4E66AD1A-0BDE-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <82C76E86-0DDE-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> <1067890006.5173.342.camel@anthem> Message-ID: At 3:06 PM -0500 11/3/03, Barry Warsaw wrote: >On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 14:49, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > >> Powerlogix has dual upgrades, and the newer 7547 based ones are >> supposed to be better than the previous ones. This is what I am saving >> my money for. The new powerlogiz dual 1200 is around $800 >> >> > Anyone know if it possible to "upgrade" a dual machine to a single >> > processor? >> >> Sure, all the cards, dual included, fit the same CPU slot and there is >> nothing "dual" about the motherboard except in some original AGP Mac mb >> where some of the support circuitry is borked. There is a utility that >> will check this for you. > >That's good to know. I'm thisssss close to upgrading my 533MHz single >Digital Audio to a dual 1.2 or 1.4 PowerLogix card. The former is >priced on their website at $799, the latter at $999. OS (Jaguar or >Panther) shouldn't make a difference, right? > >-Barry > The website says that the cards require 10.2.8 or 10.3 and that 9.2.2 compatibility is in development. Chuck http://www.powerlogix.com/products2/pfdualg4100/index.html These upgrades require Mac OS X 10.2.8 or 10.3 Panther. OS 9.2.2 compatibility is in development at this time. Classic in OS X 10.2.8 and 10.3 is fully compatible. PowerLogix also includes a firmware update so the system properly recognizes the 7457 processor. This update is required (but is easily reversible.) From pmarcos at apple.com Mon Nov 3 14:08:02 2003 From: pmarcos at apple.com (Paul Marcos) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: Mail.app attachments In-Reply-To: <30E0038E-0C8A-11D8-AEFB-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> References: <30E0038E-0C8A-11D8-AEFB-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <7C0FADEC-0E49-11D8-AF1A-000A957054BE@apple.com> On Nov 1, 2003, at 8:41, Stefano Mori wrote: > This is probably a stupid question but is there any way to store > attachments separately to the mbox files? (but still have Mail.app be > able to find them) No, not currently. Paul From jmetz at communiweb.net Mon Nov 3 14:14:46 2003 From: jmetz at communiweb.net (J Michel Metz) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <0D9FC57C-0E43-11D8-A3CE-000A9586BA18@mac.com> References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <8FCDC876-0E29-11D8-8374-000A9586BA18@mac.com> <0D9FC57C-0E43-11D8-A3CE-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: <56C0D976-0E4A-11D8-9CF5-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> > > Wow; that sure was cool. :-( My whole window set shrunk to one inch > square. So I hit F11 again, it re-expanded, and the computer froze > hard. Completely unresponsive: I had to restart. I don't *think* I > had anything unsaved open. Wow, at least you got it to re-expand. Mine just completely froze altogether. Won't be doing *that* again... J From andyring at inebraska.com Mon Nov 3 14:22:46 2003 From: andyring at inebraska.com (Andy Ringsmuth) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: AppleScript book Message-ID: <431F1488-0E4A-11D8-BBFE-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> I'm curious if anyone has any good recommendations on AppleScript books, particularly any that would be beneficial to someone already moderately experienced with AppleScript but making the transition from OS 9 AppleScript to OS X 10.3 AppleScript. Web sites would be OK, but preferrably a book. Thanks in advance! -Andy From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Nov 3 14:26:46 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <0D9FC57C-0E43-11D8-A3CE-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 01:16 PM, Patrick Coskren wrote: > On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:17 PM, Lukreme wrote: > >> On 03 Nov 2003, at 11:14, Patrick Coskren wrote: >>> On Nov 3, 2003, at 4:08 AM, Matt wrote: >>> >>>> defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool false; killall >>>> Dock >>>> >>>> I think I'll keep this... >> >> Very nice! >> >>> Color me dense; I tried this, but can't see any change. What's it >>> supposed to do? >> >> Hit F11 > > Wow; that sure was cool. :-( My whole window set shrunk to one inch > square. So I hit F11 again, it re-expanded, and the computer froze > hard. Completely unresponsive: I had to restart. I don't *think* I > had anything unsaved open. > > I guess now we know why this feature isn't documented. Sigh. This is > on an 800 Mhz iBook. What's it supposed to do? That's it - it's an alternate to the normal F11 (Show Desktop) effect... I prefer it quite a bit. Like you, it locked up on me the very first time. Hard. First non-responsive lockup I've had in at least 6 months, maybe more... but after a reboot it hasn't happened again, and I've used that feature dozens of times since. -R From soft at bdanube.com Mon Nov 3 14:36:01 2003 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:10 2005 Subject: AppleScript book In-Reply-To: <431F1488-0E4A-11D8-BBFE-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> References: <431F1488-0E4A-11D8-BBFE-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 4:08 PM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > I'm curious if anyone has any good recommendations on AppleScript > books, particularly any that would be beneficial to someone already > moderately experienced with AppleScript but making the transition from > OS 9 AppleScript to OS X 10.3 AppleScript. Everything currently out is fairly dated, with the O'Reilly Nutshell book probably the most current. But there are a couple of new ones that should be out any day now, one by Sal Soghoian and one by Matt Neuburg. Judging by the Amazon descriptions, it looks like the Soghoian book is more aimed at beginners. I've already got the Neuburg book on order. Michael -- The government doesn't want you to know... e-mail doesn't work. At all. It's a scientific impossibility. From pcoskren at mac.com Mon Nov 3 14:40:06 2003 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1D6446D3-0E4E-11D8-A3CE-000A9586BA18@mac.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 5:11 PM, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > That's it - it's an alternate to the normal F11 (Show Desktop) > effect... I prefer it quite a bit. > > Like you, it locked up on me the very first time. Hard. First > non-responsive lockup I've had in at least 6 months, maybe more... but > after a reboot it hasn't happened again, and I've used that feature > dozens of times since. Hmmmm..... I'll be darned, doesn't seem to crash me any more, either. Maybe it needs to be loaded at boot-time or something or the video-card doesn't get initialized properly. Or gnomes, maybe. Probably gnomes. I hate those guys. Now the question is, after literally ten years of training myself to never ever use the desktop, because it's too much of a pain to get to things, what do I do now? :-) For the first time, I wish I could kill the Dock: Expose handles the app-switching, and I can use the desktop as an app-lancher that's less intrusive than the Dock. Ooohhh, new toy! Thanks, -Patrick From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 3 14:42:03 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17C1F7C0-0E4E-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 3 Nov 2003, at 22:11, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > That's it - it's an alternate to the normal F11 (Show Desktop) > effect... I prefer it quite a bit. > > Like you, it locked up on me the very first time. Hard. First > non-responsive lockup I've had in at least 6 months, maybe more... but > after a reboot it hasn't happened again, and I've used that feature > dozens of times since. Hasn't locked up on me yet and I've been using it for a couple of days now. I'm not sure if I actually prefer it.....but it's certainly neat. M From cgaraffa at creativeaim.com Mon Nov 3 14:50:08 2003 From: cgaraffa at creativeaim.com (Chris Garaffa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <02620A2A-0E50-11D8-BA7D-000393D00E20@creativeaim.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 4:08 AM, Matt wrote: > defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool false; killall > Dock > > I think I'll keep this... Me too... And maybe I'm a bit slow, but you can move the square around. And it remembers the last place you put it! -- Chris Garaffa cgaraffa@creativeaim.com From wjcheeseman at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 14:52:35 2003 From: wjcheeseman at earthlink.net (Bill Cheeseman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: AppleScript book In-Reply-To: <431F1488-0E4A-11D8-BBFE-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> Message-ID: on 03-11-03 5:08 PM, Andy Ringsmuth at andyring@inebraska.com wrote: > I'm curious if anyone has any good recommendations on AppleScript > books, particularly any that would be beneficial to someone already > moderately experienced with AppleScript but making the transition from > OS 9 AppleScript to OS X 10.3 AppleScript. I haven't seen it yet, but knowing the author I would say that Matt Neuberg's book is likely to be the best bet for somebody who is already into AppleScript (or for a beginner, for that matter, but there is more competition at the beginner level already, and more in the wings). I believe Matt's book will be published any day now. Matt Neuburg, AppleScript: The Definitive Guide (O'Reilly & Associates 2003) -- Bill Cheeseman - wjcheeseman@earthlink.net Quechee Software, Quechee, Vermont, USA http://www.quecheesoftware.com The AppleScript Sourcebook - http://www.AppleScriptSourcebook.com Vermont Recipes - http://www.stepwise.com/Articles/VermontRecipes From shoop at mac.com Mon Nov 3 14:59:08 2003 From: shoop at mac.com (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <643CBF80-0DEA-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <643CBF80-0DEA-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: At 10:42 AM +0000 11/3/03, Matt wrote: >A friend of mine[1] is going to the US with his powerbook for the >first time. Any caveats he needs to be aware of? I've never >travelled to the US with a powerbook though I've *done* Europe. Notebooks are as common as cell phones. Unlike many European countries we place no restrictions on the number of notebooks you can bring into the country, require and declaration, or anything else. You may need to prove you had it before you left to get back into your country, but nothing funky here. >He's going to Seattle/Tacoma for most of the trip and with a one day >stopover in Central Wisconsin - as he's a bit of tech noob, I was >wondering if anyone knew where he could get some cheap WiFi for >getting his emails (rather than worrying about changing his network >locations for dial-up). I'm not sure about Seattle/Tacoma but some McDonalds have free WiFi. Also a Google search for "free wifi seattle" seems to cough up quite a lot. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop shoop@iwiring.net Consulting Internet Architect shoop@mac.com aim: iwiring pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 3 15:00:06 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <02620A2A-0E50-11D8-BA7D-000393D00E20@creativeaim.com> References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <02620A2A-0E50-11D8-BA7D-000393D00E20@creativeaim.com> Message-ID: <5DAC908E-0E51-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 3 Nov 2003, at 22:49, Chris Garaffa wrote: > On Nov 3, 2003, at 4:08 AM, Matt wrote: >> defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool false; killall >> Dock >> >> I think I'll keep this... > > Me too... > > And maybe I'm a bit slow, but you can move the square around. And it > remembers the last place you put it! You know...it's not so far to go to have that square as an icon in the dock. Or a separate icon in the dock for each application's collected windows. That reminds of of XP a bit... M From soft at bdanube.com Mon Nov 3 15:14:05 2003 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Gremlin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <1D6446D3-0E4E-11D8-A3CE-000A9586BA18@mac.com> References: <1D6446D3-0E4E-11D8-A3CE-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: <4F6A9480-0E53-11D8-8015-000A27984144@bdanube.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 4:36 PM, Patrick Coskren wrote: > I'll be darned, doesn't seem to crash me any more, either. Maybe it > needs to be loaded at boot-time or something or the video-card doesn't > get initialized properly. Or gnomes, maybe. Probably gnomes. I hate > those guys. We prefer to be called Gremlin-Americans, you racist! Michael Gnome Liberation Front -- The government doesn't want you to know... e-mail doesn't work. At all. It's a scientific impossibility. From joar at joar.com Mon Nov 3 15:19:06 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <5DAC908E-0E51-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <02620A2A-0E50-11D8-BA7D-000393D00E20@creativeaim.com> <5DAC908E-0E51-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: You already have that, they're found in the dock menu of each application. Alongside other useful menu items. I know you know this, but I thought I'd rub it in... j o a r On 2003-11-03, at 23.59, Matt wrote: > Or a separate icon in the dock for each application's collected > windows. From jer at mia.net Mon Nov 3 15:26:31 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: <40EDE530-0672-11D8-8DDE-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: Ok, I am lost already. I bought Panther for one reason and one reason only. I had hoped I would finally be able to map a given signature to a particular account. Is there still no way to do this? Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 3 15:35:47 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <02620A2A-0E50-11D8-BA7D-000393D00E20@creativeaim.com> <5DAC908E-0E51-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <88AED245-0E54-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 3 Nov 2003, at 23:16, j o a r wrote: > You already have that, they're found in the dock menu of each > application. Alongside other useful menu items. I know you know this, > but I thought I'd rub it in... That's not the same damnit! And other stuff... M -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Nov 3 15:37:40 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <1D6446D3-0E4E-11D8-A3CE-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: <854616CC-0E54-11D8-96D6-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 02:36 PM, Patrick Coskren wrote: > On Nov 3, 2003, at 5:11 PM, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > >> That's it - it's an alternate to the normal F11 (Show Desktop) >> effect... I prefer it quite a bit. >> >> Like you, it locked up on me the very first time. Hard. First >> non-responsive lockup I've had in at least 6 months, maybe more... >> but after a reboot it hasn't happened again, and I've used that >> feature dozens of times since. > > Hmmmm..... > > pretty moving things> > > I'll be darned, doesn't seem to crash me any more, either. Maybe it > needs to be loaded at boot-time or something or the video-card doesn't > get initialized properly. Or gnomes, maybe. Probably gnomes. I hate > those guys. > > Now the question is, after literally ten years of training myself to > never ever use the desktop, because it's too much of a pain to get to > things, what do I do now? :-) For the first time, I wish I could > kill the Dock: Expose handles the app-switching, and I can use the > desktop as an app-lancher that's less intrusive than the Dock. I take it you've all seen the glowing Expos? orb too? defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-floater -bool true You can even customize it with your own images (wvousfloat.png and wvousfloatselected.png) at: /System/Library/CoreServices/Dock.app/Contents/Resources/ Enjoy -R From mbp at csr-bos.com Mon Nov 3 15:39:50 2003 From: mbp at csr-bos.com (Mark Palmerino) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Font rendering in Panther In-Reply-To: <53597390-0E29-11D8-9986-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <9D79E7C6-0E21-11D8-8374-000A9586BA18@mac.com> <53597390-0E29-11D8-9986-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: <1B0602E4-0E56-11D8-A56F-000393DB9D1E@csr-bos.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 1:12 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 12:17 PM, Patrick Coskren wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Am I just imagining it, or is the anti-aliasing on LCD screens in >> Panther a little nicer than it was in Jaguar? Looks lovely, in any >> event. >> > > much nicer imho, I noticed the difference almost immediately. Same here - extremely noticeable, in a very positive way! (1GHz TiBook) Mark From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Nov 3 15:46:19 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <720529FB-0E57-11D8-96D6-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 02:20 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > > Ok, I am lost already. I bought Panther for one reason and one reason > only. I sure hope you're exaggerating... > I had hoped I would finally be able to map a given signature to a > particular account. Is there still no way to do this? Me too... though you coulda found that out *before* you bought, if that's the only reason you wanted to upgrade. So no, still doesn't have per-account sigs. -R From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Nov 3 15:51:14 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Font rendering in Panther In-Reply-To: <1B0602E4-0E56-11D8-A56F-000393DB9D1E@csr-bos.com> Message-ID: <97EE2D80-0E57-11D8-96D6-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 03:33 PM, Mark Palmerino wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 1:12 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > >> >> On Nov 3, 2003, at 12:17 PM, Patrick Coskren wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Am I just imagining it, or is the anti-aliasing on LCD screens in >>> Panther a little nicer than it was in Jaguar? Looks lovely, in any >>> event. >>> >> >> much nicer imho, I noticed the difference almost immediately. > > Same here - extremely noticeable, in a very positive way! (1GHz TiBook) You all sure it's not just the OS defaulting to CRT anti-aliasing again after a fresh install? Have you checked your setting in General? Can't say I've noticed a big difference, and I still use Jag at the office. -R From ehrich at mninter.net Mon Nov 3 15:56:36 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <2D58721C-0E29-11D8-9986-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <643CBF80-0DEA-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <2D58721C-0E29-11D8-9986-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: >>A friend of mine[1] is going to the US with his powerbook for the first time. > >About the only thing he will need is a power adapter converter to >use us outlets for recharging. Otherwise he cna set timezone and >all that easily. He may also have to get telephone plug adapters if he connects dialup. It's easiest to get them over there. They are different in different countries. Some of them look the same, but have different connections (Swiss, others?). I generally use the ISP account of whomever I'm staying with. Change the mail send address to the local ISP. -- Bill Ehrich From charlesd at newsguy.com Mon Nov 3 16:03:56 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 16:20 -0600 03/11/2003, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >Ok, I am lost already. I bought Panther for one reason and one >reason only. I had hoped I would finally be able to map a given >signature to a particular account. Is there still no way to do this? Not unless you get Eudora or some other client. Mail doesn't seem to support multiple signatures, and at this point I'd say that this is because they don't want to. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Nov 3 16:14:09 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 02:58 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > At 10:42 AM +0000 11/3/03, Matt wrote: >> A friend of mine[1] is going to the US with his powerbook for the >> first time. Any caveats he needs to be aware of? I've never travelled >> to the US with a powerbook though I've *done* Europe. > > Notebooks are as common as cell phones. Unlike many European countries > we place no restrictions on the number of notebooks you can bring into > the country, require and declaration, or anything else. You may need > to prove you had it before you left to get back into your country, but > nothing funky here. > >> He's going to Seattle/Tacoma for most of the trip and with a one day >> stopover in Central Wisconsin - as he's a bit of tech noob, I was >> wondering if anyone knew where he could get some cheap WiFi for >> getting his emails (rather than worrying about changing his network >> locations for dial-up). > > I'm not sure about Seattle/Tacoma but some McDonalds have free WiFi. The McDonalds are in a specific test market, somewhere in the midwest (IIRC). Besides, wifi and McNuggets? No thanks. > Also a Google search for "free wifi seattle" seems to cough up quite a > lot. yeah, Seattle is one of those places with a decent open-access movement... but on a trip it's not something I ever count on, which is why I have T-Mobile. Sure, you can also get local-only accounts with smaller shops, maybe even for less, but the T-Mobile account is nationwide (they also have a pay-as-you-go plan, which is how I got hooked in the first place). Maybe (MAYBE) in New York, or to a lesser degree San Francisco, but most towns are just too spread out to support a big wifi movement, unless it's sponsored (my hometown of Long Beach, CA, is now considered one of the most wifi-enabled spots in California since the city spent some ridiculously small amount to install good coverage - seems to be working, too, lots of geeks are now seen outdoors with laptops and the beginnings of a tan). I have a cantenna in my car, and in a pinch I've always been successful just driving around a younger neighborhood (middle-class apartment-dwellers have wifi) with a pocketpc running MiniStumbler - when I find a network I then break out the cantenna on my TiBook (necessary when you're across the street lurking in the shadows of your car!). I'd much rather go to Starbucks, given the option :) -R From ehrich at mninter.net Mon Nov 3 16:34:02 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: smime.p7s - Eudora plug-in? In-Reply-To: <0B283E83-0869-11D8-83A7-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> References: <25949240-0808-11D8-AB7D-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <49E39D4C-080D-11D8-8989-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <0B283E83-0869-11D8-83A7-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> Message-ID: >Actually, the *nice* thing about s/mime over pgp is that the great >majority of email readers know what it is ... Eudora has a plug in Where can I get it? Cost? -- Bill Ehrich From pcoskren at mac.com Mon Nov 3 16:43:14 2003 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Font rendering in Panther In-Reply-To: <97EE2D80-0E57-11D8-96D6-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 06:43 PM, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > You all sure it's not just the OS defaulting to CRT anti-aliasing > again after a fresh install? Have you checked your setting in General? Positive; I checked. In fact, it was a little annoying because I have an external CRT, and it looks worse (under the LCD setting, that is). It would be nice if you could configure different anti-aliasing methods for different monitors. -Patrick From jared at 23x.net Mon Nov 3 17:11:03 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <8FCDC876-0E29-11D8-8374-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 10:00 PM, Robert G Palmer Jr wrote: > And what is the write command to revert this to the original? defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool true; killall Dock -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "Plippy Ploppy SPORK Nose?" "Mm. No. Try again." From kremels at kreme.com Mon Nov 3 17:22:58 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <1D6446D3-0E4E-11D8-A3CE-000A9586BA18@mac.com> References: <1D6446D3-0E4E-11D8-A3CE-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: <30FD9867-0E64-11D8-9DB0-003065AB9B0E@kreme.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:36 PM, Patrick Coskren wrote: > On Nov 3, 2003, at 5:11 PM, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > >> That's it - it's an alternate to the normal F11 (Show Desktop) >> effect... I prefer it quite a bit. >> >> Like you, it locked up on me the very first time. Hard. First >> non-responsive lockup I've had in at least 6 months, maybe more... >> but after a reboot it hasn't happened again, and I've used that >> feature dozens of times since. > > Hmmmm..... > > pretty moving things> > > I'll be darned, doesn't seem to crash me any more, either. Maybe it > needs to be loaded at boot-time or something or the video-card doesn't > get initialized properly. Or gnomes, maybe. Probably gnomes. I hate > those guys. On the dual 500 and the iLamp it worked fine. No crashing. Just worked. > Now the question is, after literally ten years of training myself to > never ever use the desktop, because it's too much of a pain to get to > things, what do I do now? :-) For the first time, I wish I could > kill the Dock: Expose handles the app-switching, and I can use the > desktop as an app-lancher that's less intrusive than the Dock. Yeah, the dock is totally pointless with Expos?, isn't it? -- if you ever get that chimp of your back, if you ever find the thing you lack, ah but you know you're only having a laugh. Oh, oh here we go again -- until the end. From treaves at silverfieldstech.com Mon Nov 3 17:23:48 2003 From: treaves at silverfieldstech.com (T Reaves) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: WWDC DVD Message-ID: <382B5796-0E64-11D8-8663-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com> Does anyone have a WWDC DVD they would be interested in loaning out? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2385 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031103/e026f083/smime.bin From n9yty at n9yty.com Mon Nov 3 17:32:24 2003 From: n9yty at n9yty.com (Steven Palm) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 5:54 PM, Charles Dyer wrote: > At 16:20 -0600 03/11/2003, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >> Ok, I am lost already. I bought Panther for one reason and one >> reason only. I had hoped I would finally be able to map a given >> signature to a particular account. Is there still no way to do this? > > Not unless you get Eudora or some other client. Mail doesn't seem to > support multiple signatures, and at this point I'd say that this is > because they don't want to. No, it's already been publicly stated that this is a highly requested feature, and they'd love to put it in, but it still hasn't made it far enough up the list in comparison to other things they need to do. The Mail team is only so big and the workload for them is, apparently, much bigger. If I ever get around to releasing it, I have a plugin for Mail that tracks your signature to your sending account... It's mostly a matter of coming up with a nice easy to use installer (average people can't be bothered with terminal commands and I can't be bothered with walking them through it) and a place to host it. -. ----. -.-- - -.-- Steve Palm - n9yty@n9yty.com -. ----. -.-- - -.-- From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Mon Nov 3 17:40:03 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <30FD9867-0E64-11D8-9DB0-003065AB9B0E@kreme.com> Message-ID: "LuKreme" wrote: > Yeah, the dock is totally pointless with Expos?, isn't it? The Dock is not only a switcher it is also a launcher, something Expose doesn't do. You can't park an icon on Expose for a one click launch, for example. Neither can you see how many pieces of email or RSS feeds you got or how far that download has progressed, etc. d*g From shoop at mac.com Mon Nov 3 17:52:35 2003 From: shoop at mac.com (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:07 PM -0800 11/3/03, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: >On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 02:58 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > >>At 10:42 AM +0000 11/3/03, Matt wrote: >>>A friend of mine[1] is going to the US with his powerbook for the >>>first time. Any caveats he needs to be aware of? I've never >>>travelled to the US with a powerbook though I've *done* Europe. >> >>Notebooks are as common as cell phones. Unlike many European >>countries we place no restrictions on the number of notebooks you >>can bring into the country, require and declaration, or anything >>else. You may need to prove you had it before you left to get back >>into your country, but nothing funky here. >> >>>He's going to Seattle/Tacoma for most of the trip and with a one >>>day stopover in Central Wisconsin - as he's a bit of tech noob, I >>>was wondering if anyone knew where he could get some cheap WiFi >>>for getting his emails (rather than worrying about changing his >>>network locations for dial-up). >> >>I'm not sure about Seattle/Tacoma but some McDonalds have free WiFi. > >The McDonalds are in a specific test market, somewhere in the >midwest (IIRC). Besides, wifi and McNuggets? No thanks. They exits in NYC, so it's beyond the midwest. >>Also a Google search for "free wifi seattle" seems to cough up quite a lot. > >yeah, Seattle is one of those places with a decent open-access movement... As are most places, free wifi seems to be getting deployed all over, which is why I suggested a search. > but on a trip it's not something I ever count on, which is why I >have T-Mobile. Sure, you can also get local-only accounts with >smaller shops, maybe even for less, but the T-Mobile account is >nationwide (they also have a pay-as-you-go plan, which is how I got >hooked in the first place). I've used t-mobile hot spots too, > Maybe (MAYBE) in New York, or to a lesser degree San Francisco, but >most towns are just too spread out to support a big wifi movement, >unless it's sponsored (my hometown of Long Beach, CA, is now >considered one of the most wifi-enabled spots in California since >the city spent some ridiculously small amount to install good >coverage - seems to be working, too, lots of geeks are now seen >outdoors with laptops and the beginnings of a tan). As I said, seems to br springing up all over. In NYC and in most cities there's a "movement" on to bring this about. >I have a cantenna in my car, and in a pinch I've always been >successful just driving around a younger neighborhood (middle-class >apartment-dwellers have wifi) with a pocketpc running MiniStumbler - >when I find a network I then break out the cantenna on my TiBook >(necessary when you're across the street lurking in the shadows of >your car!). I'd much rather go to Starbucks, given the option :) But of course. Regards, -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop shoop@iwiring.net Consulting Internet Architect shoop@mac.com aim: iwiring pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B From kremels at kreme.com Mon Nov 3 18:09:29 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: FastMac 933Mhz upgrade card In-Reply-To: References: <4E66AD1A-0BDE-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <82C76E86-0DDE-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 12:49 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > Powerlogix has dual upgrades, and the newer 7547 based ones are > supposed to be better than the previous ones. This is what I am > saving my money for. The new powerlogiz dual 1200 is around $800 Hmm... I can buy a dual 1.2 machine for $1400 (refurb from Apple with Applecare). I know I can get more than $600 for my dual 500... Hmm.... need to think about that. OTOH, I can put a single 1.2 in... that might be ok. -- I put on my robe and wizard hat From jer at mia.net Mon Nov 3 19:07:26 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: <720529FB-0E57-11D8-96D6-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> References: <720529FB-0E57-11D8-96D6-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 5:42 PM, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > > On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 02:20 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > >> >> Ok, I am lost already. I bought Panther for one reason and one >> reason only. > > I sure hope you're exaggerating... Not really.. That is the one thing I am waiting for. I will say that mail seems a bit faster overall and the entire system as well.. However I am very disappointed that something so simple to fix/implement has not been done. > >> I had hoped I would finally be able to map a given signature to a >> particular account. Is there still no way to do this? > > Me too... though you coulda found that out *before* you bought, if > that's the only reason you wanted to upgrade. So no, still doesn't > have per-account sigs. > > Actually I have bitched on this list since the first incarnation of Mail.App to no end, and was promised or at least lead to believe this would be released not in an incremental upgrade, but in the next generation (panther) of the OS. Again, I am very disappointed in Apple in this regard. Such a simple feature. Would take all of 5 minutes to add. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From jer at mia.net Mon Nov 3 19:09:32 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2968AE06-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> On Nov 3, 2003, at 5:54 PM, Charles Dyer wrote: > At 16:20 -0600 03/11/2003, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >> Ok, I am lost already. I bought Panther for one reason and one >> reason only. I had hoped I would finally be able to map a given >> signature to a particular account. Is there still no way to do this? > > Not unless you get Eudora or some other client. Mail doesn't seem to > support multiple signatures, and at this point I'd say that this is > because they don't want to. > > Well Mail does in fact support multiple signatures. In fact it always has. However this feature is useless when you have to waste time manually selecting a signature to go with a particular account. I know of no other email client that lacks this functionality. My guess is you are correct, they probably do not want to. Again, very simple feature.. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From jer at mia.net Mon Nov 3 19:12:26 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> Message-ID: <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> On Nov 3, 2003, at 7:29 PM, Steven Palm wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 5:54 PM, Charles Dyer wrote: > >> At 16:20 -0600 03/11/2003, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >>> Ok, I am lost already. I bought Panther for one reason and one >>> reason only. I had hoped I would finally be able to map a given >>> signature to a particular account. Is there still no way to do >>> this? >> >> Not unless you get Eudora or some other client. Mail doesn't seem to >> support multiple signatures, and at this point I'd say that this is >> because they don't want to. > > No, it's already been publicly stated that this is a highly requested > feature, and they'd love to put it in, but it still hasn't made it far > enough up the list in comparison to other things they need to do. The > Mail team is only so big and the workload for them is, apparently, > much bigger. For Pete's sake.. I have heard this crap long enough. How hard can it be to do this? I have a programmer on staff that indicated 5 minutes was the extent of time he would need to implement this. So we have time to pretty up the icons? But no time to add a simple feature? I'm not sure I follow logic or believe it anymore. > > If I ever get around to releasing it, I have a plugin for Mail that > tracks your signature to your sending account... It's mostly a matter > of coming up with a nice easy to use installer (average people can't > be bothered with terminal commands and I can't be bothered with > walking them through it) and a place to host it. > > Send the source to Mail.App and I'll have my guys add the friggin thing. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Mon Nov 3 19:28:03 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther Mail Threading: disappointed In-Reply-To: References: <0F8BEE01-095C-11D8-86F9-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Message-ID: Well, after using Threading to read this discussion, I sort of like it. A few little quirks I don't like though: 1. When you select a collapsed message in the view, it displays the "summary" message (which is rather useless, IMO). It would be nicer if it showed the first message instead, so you'd have some idea of how it started. 2. Second, when you click on the "double arrows" icon to collapse the thread, and then open it up again, it would be nice if it opened up to the last message read. 3. If you open up a thread in which you'd never read a message, it automatically selects the *last* message. IMO, it should select the *first* message, or the first *unread* message if you'd seen some before. And it should have some indication whether a particular message had been read or not. 4. There should also be a "reply to mailing list" command/toolbar button. A good start, but needs work.. (or, if you're cynical, they left part out so we'd have a reason to buy 10.4 next year..) Jim From aron at r8ix.com Mon Nov 3 19:30:32 2003 From: aron at r8ix.com (Aron Spencer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <3A5C83DA-0E45-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <8FCDC876-0E29-11D8-8374-000A9586BA18@mac.com> <3A5C83DA-0E45-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <21B0FAFA-0E77-11D8-910F-000393D8AEA2@r8ix.com> Odd side effect I'm getting. When not "expos?ed", a click in the area where the rectangle would be does not register, regardless of which application is in front. Not sure if this will go away with a restart; I haven't yet since I haven't gotten the lockup some others have. (even in this mail window, there is an area, where the rectangle would be, where the cursor changes from an I-beam to an arrow, and clicking has no effect) On Nov 3, 2003, at 4:32 PM, Matt wrote: > > On 3 Nov 2003, at 21:00, Robert G Palmer Jr wrote: > >>>>> defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool false; >>>>> killall Dock > > defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool true; killall Dock > > A bit obvious really :) > > M > From cgaraffa at creativeaim.com Mon Nov 3 19:39:01 2003 From: cgaraffa at creativeaim.com (Chris Garaffa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <21B0FAFA-0E77-11D8-910F-000393D8AEA2@r8ix.com> References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <8FCDC876-0E29-11D8-8374-000A9586BA18@mac.com> <3A5C83DA-0E45-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <21B0FAFA-0E77-11D8-910F-000393D8AEA2@r8ix.com> Message-ID: <58AF841A-0E78-11D8-BA7D-000393D00E20@creativeaim.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 10:29 PM, Aron Spencer wrote: > Odd side effect I'm getting. When not "expos?ed", a click in the area > where the rectangle would be does not register, regardless of which > application is in front. Not sure if this will go away with a restart; > I haven't yet since I haven't gotten the lockup some others have. I experienced this too, and I have to retract my previous message about keeping this (otherwise very cool) feature activated. The problem has also been noted on MacOSXHints: > (even in this mail window, there is an area, where the rectangle would > be, where the cursor changes from an I-beam to an arrow, and clicking > has no effect) I freaked out, then thought it was related to SideTrack... then realized I've been using SideTrack with Panther since the latter was released with no problems; reverting back to the default Expos? behavior fixes it. > On Nov 3, 2003, at 4:32 PM, Matt wrote: > >> On 3 Nov 2003, at 21:00, Robert G Palmer Jr wrote: >> >>>>>> defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool false; >>>>>> killall Dock >> >> defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool true; killall >> Dock >> >> A bit obvious really :) -- Chris Garaffa cgaraffa@creativeaim.com From sstevenson at mac.com Mon Nov 3 19:42:01 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 7:10 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > For Pete's sake.. I have heard this crap long enough. How hard can it > be to do this? I have a programmer on staff that indicated 5 minutes > was the extent of time he would need to implement this. It's easy to sit back and comment on how long a certain feature should take, but unless you're a programmer and have a understanding of the entire Mail codebase, it's a meaningless comment. You have to take the entire design into account. You can't just add code wherever you like. To you, this is the most important feature in the world, but there are thousands of people that feel the same way about different features. Developers have to prioritize, and someone is always going to feel burned. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From kremels at kreme.com Mon Nov 3 19:53:24 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: smime.p7s - Eudora plug-in? In-Reply-To: References: <25949240-0808-11D8-AB7D-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <49E39D4C-080D-11D8-8989-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <0B283E83-0869-11D8-83A7-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> Message-ID: <485E7D01-0E7A-11D8-8A83-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 03 Nov 2003, at 17:33, William Ehrich wrote: >> Actually, the *nice* thing about s/mime over pgp is that the great >> majority of email readers know what it is ... Eudora has a plug in > > Where can I get it? has lots of links. -- I'm no psychologist (although I play one when I'm picking up chicks over by the asylum) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031103/d6d3d377/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Mon Nov 3 20:02:25 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther Mail Threading: disappointed In-Reply-To: References: <0F8BEE01-095C-11D8-86F9-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Message-ID: <972D892C-0E7B-11D8-8A83-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 03 Nov 2003, at 20:28, Jim Witte wrote: > Well, after using Threading to read this discussion, I sort of like > it. A few little quirks I don't like though: > > 1. When you select a collapsed message in the view, it displays the > "summary" message (which is rather useless, IMO). It would be nicer > if it showed the first message instead, so you'd have some idea of how > it started. I disagree. The summary is quite useful. Number of unread messages, number of messages total, and age of thread. And a selectable list of all the messages. Slick. And the first unread message is a simple --> press away. > 2. Second, when you click on the "double arrows" icon to collapse the > thread, and then open it up again, it would be nice if it opened up to > the last message read. Er... it does if the thread is all read. otherwise it selects the first unread message, as $DEITY intended. > 3. If you open up a thread in which you'd never read a message, it > automatically selects the *last* message. No, it selects the FIRST message. Is your sorting wonky? > IMO, it should select the *first* message, or the first *unread* > message if you'd seen some before. Exactly how it behaves for me. > And it should have some indication whether a particular message had > been read or not. The big blue dot means unread. Are we using the same mail.app? OS X, right? Panther? mail.app 1.3 (v606) right? > 4. There should also be a "reply to mailing list" command/toolbar > button. That would be nice. -- There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031103/d7e42de9/smime.bin From nadeama2 at videotron.ca Mon Nov 3 20:10:38 2003 From: nadeama2 at videotron.ca (Martin Nadeau) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Little Panther annoyances In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <77CBF8BC-0E7C-11D8-93B0-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> On 03 Nov 2003, at 02:59, Martin Nadeau wrote: > - Dragging items to and from the Desktop seems quite a bit slower than > before. For example, when dragging a file from the Desktop to the > Trash, there is a one second delay before the file disappears from the > Desktop (is anybody else seeing this?). > > - The animation when scrolling a window by dragging the scrollbar > doesn't seem nearly as "smooth" as before. There is a kind of jerky, > or rather "wavy" effect (it's a bit hard to describe). In fact, it > looks a little like scrolling in OS 9 with hardware acceleration > extensions turned off. It doesn't happen all the time, but often. Does > anyone else see this? Maybe it's related to computer and video card > models? I have a G4 MDD with a Radeon 9000 Pro. So I assume nobody else has experienced this? :-) Another two annoying bugs that I found: - Resizing a Finder window by clicking the green button doesn't work well anymore (or at least doesn't work like it used to). For example, if you resize the columns in a List view and click the green button, the window won't necessarily grow or shrink to fit all the items in nicely, which is what it did in Jaguar. - Mail doesn't remember the size of a mailbox's columns, especially the column completely to the right ("Date Received" in my case). Its width keeps shrinking after I switch to another mailbox and then come back to the current mailbox. This one is really annoying. -- Martin Nadeau From chad at objectwerks.com Mon Nov 3 20:37:07 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: FastMac 933Mhz upgrade card In-Reply-To: References: <4E66AD1A-0BDE-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <82C76E86-0DDE-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <6D69A7B9-0E80-11D8-AA87-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 6:11 PM, LuKreme wrote: > On Nov 3, 2003, at 12:49 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >> Powerlogix has dual upgrades, and the newer 7547 based ones are >> supposed to be better than the previous ones. This is what I am >> saving my money for. The new powerlogiz dual 1200 is around $800 > > > > Hmm... I can buy a dual 1.2 machine for $1400 (refurb from Apple with > Applecare). > > I know I can get more than $600 for my dual 500... > > Hmm.... need to think about that. OTOH, I can put a single 1.2 in... > that might be ok. > It all depends what else you have in your Dual 500. Lots of RAM that would need to be replaced, etc... For me, since my machine is in a PC case, upgrading makes more sense since I have 2gb RAM, 4 optical drives, a few HD, etc. Chad From mstearne at entermix.com Mon Nov 3 20:48:05 2003 From: mstearne at entermix.com (Michael Stearne) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: .NET a Lock-In To Windows, Perhaps Not... In-Reply-To: <9DAE7FFA-0E29-11D8-BB38-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <20031103014108.QRJQ1849.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> <9DAE7FFA-0E29-11D8-BB38-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 1:14 PM, Jim Rankin wrote: > On Nov 3, 2003, at 10:34 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >> There's an article in the most recent MacTech which describes how >> .NET can run on other platforms. >> > I haven't read this particular article, but I'm pretty sure the only > thing that is close to being ported is the runtime. The interesting > stuff, like data access, WinForms, etc. are not part of the open > specification and there are no indications they will ever be ported > outside of Windows. > Actually, that's just what Mono is doing (http://go-mono.org/asp-net.html). But of course MS makes it hard and the Mono people have to reverse engineer it. So, like Wine it will always be a moving target. But at least MS takes so long to release software that it gives Open Source a chance to catch up. > With Java, all of the important APIs run everywhere Java runs, more or > less. That's an important difference. > Yes, support Java. Michael From macosx at wooz.org Mon Nov 3 20:49:59 2003 From: macosx at wooz.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: FastMac 933Mhz upgrade card In-Reply-To: <6D69A7B9-0E80-11D8-AA87-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <4E66AD1A-0BDE-11D8-A748-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <82C76E86-0DDE-11D8-A7FA-000A95935598@kreme.com> <6D69A7B9-0E80-11D8-AA87-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <1067921152.5173.417.camel@anthem> On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 23:36, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > It all depends what else you have in your Dual 500. Lots of RAM that > would need to be replaced, etc... > > For me, since my machine is in a PC case, upgrading makes more sense > since I have 2gb RAM, 4 optical drives, a few HD, etc. I'm in roughly the same boat, with 1GB ram, 3 Ultrawide SCSI drives, an M-Audio PCI card, Radeon graphics card, and a USB 4-port card. I really don't want to move all that stuff to another box. -Barry From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Mon Nov 3 20:52:10 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: AARRG!! Useful undocumented feature fixed in Panther! Message-ID: <1962A2A6-0E82-11D8-B558-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Aarrggh! One of the nice "undocumented features" in Jaguar was that if you changed an extension, and it put up the dialog box "are you sure you want to change it?" (with 'No' being the default button), you could just hit Escape to go with the new extension, which is what you REALLY wanted to do anyway - if you hadn't wanted to do it, you wouldn't have, right? This over-cautiousness reminds me of Windows 'delete file' behavior in a BIG (annoying) way. Well, Apple in it's infinite wisdom has (inadvertently or advertently [is that a word?]) decided to "fix" this undocumented feature? Aarrgh! I want it back! Any ideas on what method I'd have to patch? (I assume Unsanity's APEstill works..) Jim jswitte (at) bloomington (dot) in.us From ploiku at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 21:02:01 2003 From: ploiku at earthlink.net (Hsu) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: AARRG!! Useful undocumented feature fixed in Panther! In-Reply-To: <1962A2A6-0E82-11D8-B558-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> References: <1962A2A6-0E82-11D8-B558-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: How do you even get this dialog? I just changed a bunch of extensions, and I never got a dialog... Karl On Nov 3, 2003, at 8:48 PM, Jim Witte wrote: > Aarrggh! > > One of the nice "undocumented features" in Jaguar was that if you > changed an extension, and it put up the dialog box "are you sure you > want to change it?" (with 'No' being the default button), you could > just hit Escape to go with the new extension, which is what you REALLY > wanted to do anyway - if you hadn't wanted to do it, you wouldn't > have, right? This over-cautiousness reminds me of Windows 'delete > file' behavior in a BIG (annoying) way. > > Well, Apple in it's infinite wisdom has (inadvertently or > advertently [is that a word?]) decided to "fix" this undocumented > feature? Aarrgh! I want it back! > > Any ideas on what method I'd have to patch? (I assume Unsanity's > APEstill works..) > > Jim > jswitte (at) bloomington (dot) in.us > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > -- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. Homepage: http://homepage.mac.com/khsu/index.html From lomion at mac.com Mon Nov 3 21:08:05 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Font rendering in Panther In-Reply-To: <97EE2D80-0E57-11D8-96D6-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> References: <97EE2D80-0E57-11D8-96D6-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 6:43 PM, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > > On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 03:33 PM, Mark Palmerino wrote: > >> >> On Nov 3, 2003, at 1:12 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: >> >>> >>> On Nov 3, 2003, at 12:17 PM, Patrick Coskren wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Am I just imagining it, or is the anti-aliasing on LCD screens in >>>> Panther a little nicer than it was in Jaguar? Looks lovely, in any >>>> event. >>>> >>> >>> much nicer imho, I noticed the difference almost immediately. >> >> Same here - extremely noticeable, in a very positive way! (1GHz >> TiBook) > > You all sure it's not just the OS defaulting to CRT anti-aliasing > again after a fresh install? Have you checked your setting in General? > > Can't say I've noticed a big difference, and I still use Jag at the > office. > No it is not, I have it set for LCD --Larry > -R > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031103/20b14784/smime.bin From ploiku at earthlink.net Mon Nov 3 21:09:06 2003 From: ploiku at earthlink.net (Hsu) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 7:10 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > For Pete's sake.. I have heard this crap long enough. How hard can it > be to do this? I have a programmer on staff that indicated 5 minutes > was the extent of time he would need to implement this. So we have > time to pretty up the icons? But no time to add a simple feature? > I'm not sure I follow logic or believe it anymore. coding + testing + preferences + preferences testing + localization + localization testing + documentation + documentation localization >= 5 minutes. And, of course, X minutes on this is X minutes away from something else. Maybe something else is more important. How many users have more than 1 email account and use signatures and care which sig goes to which account? I think it'd be a swell feature, but I can think of several other swell features I'd like more - several are "5 minute" jobbies as well. Karl -- Some guy hit my fender, and I said to him, "Go forth, be fruitful, and multiply." But not in those words. Homepage: http://homepage.mac.com/khsu/index.html From aa4lr at mac.com Mon Nov 3 21:11:01 2003 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off Message-ID: <20031104050806.MOPP1811.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> On 11/2/03 11:03 PM, Michael Stearne at mstearne@entermix.com wrote: > >But if it is just a copy of OpenStep, why didn't they implement it in >XP or 2000. Its not like OpenStep has changed since then. Why did >they happen to do it after Apple. I dunno. The basic drawing architecture of NeXTstep / OpenStep / MacOS X / Longhorn is pretty much a natural evolution from the bitmapped graphics system of the earliest Mac or Xerox systems. Essentially, the earliest systems drew directly on the screen member because it saved gobs of space, and memory was expensive. NeXTstep drew (just about) everything offscreen and then compositied the image to the screen. MacOS X added some interesting transforms to this process. Longhorn copies this, but in Microsoft's own fashion. Whereas NeXTstep used Display PostScript and MacOS X uses PDF (Quartz), Microsoft uses XAML, which is kinda an XML version of PDF. But it also has some characteristics like the NeXT / MacOS X .nib files. >> No, the real parts of Longhorn to fear are the CLR and all the .NET >> technologies. > >Yes, definitely. But then again Linux's growth is not something >Microsoft can stop. Microsoft for once will have to compete. Microsoft has returned to their old formula. While preaching a gospel of complete interoperabiltiy, they are promising (and delivering!) a number of easy-to-use tools that ensure your applications are totally locked-in to their technologies. >> While Apple wasn't able to pull off a complete conversion of existing >> applications with its Rhapsody strategy, Microsoft can easily convince >> one of the biggest application's developers -- itself. > >What do you mean by this? Originally, Apple chose to separate classic MacOS and Rhapsody coding. To upgrade an existing MacOS application to Rhapsody, you had to re-write all of your UI code in Cocoa. Developers didn't go for it. They had too much invested in the old toolbox. That's why Apple had to fix the toolbox to work on MacOS X -- a technology we call Carbon. Microsoft faces much the same situation. In order to get many of the benefits of Longhorn, developers must convert their existing code into Longhorn-specific code. That's very expensive, and developers would resist this. However, Microsoft has no problem convincing the largest application developer from doing this -- because they are the largest application developer. >Yes they are. But if the Mono project works out well (as long as >Microsoft doesn't completely sabotage it) Mono will free users from >vendor lock in. Supporting Java will help even more than Mono. Java >levels the developer playing field. James Gosling uses a Mac to do Java >work. :-) I heard about some even scarier stuff today. Like creating a browser-based application that doesn't use HTML -- instead it carries a Windows-specific binary to the browser. It may be called IE, but it certainly sounds like a proprietary system to me. And, of course, it's going to be so terribly easy to just write these applications that many companies will further entrench themselves, rather than remaining open to other options. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From charlesd at newsguy.com Mon Nov 3 21:12:30 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: smime.p7s - Eudora plug-in? In-Reply-To: <485E7D01-0E7A-11D8-8A83-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <25949240-0808-11D8-AB7D-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <49E39D4C-080D-11D8-8989-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <0B283E83-0869-11D8-83A7-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> <485E7D01-0E7A-11D8-8A83-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: At 20:52 -0700 03/11/2003, Lukreme wrote: >On 03 Nov 2003, at 17:33, William Ehrich wrote: > >>>Actually, the *nice* thing about s/mime over pgp is that the great >>>majority of email readers know what it is ... Eudora has a plug in >> >>Where can I get it? > > has >lots of links. It most certainly does. Unfortunately, most of them contain quotes such as "The Tumbleweed S/MIME plugin for Eudora is no longer available" and "S/MIME would work with Eudora or other e-mail packages, except I can find no one who has a product to sell." I checked out 27 of those links. Not one pointed to an actual plug-in, either for sale (and why should _I_ pay money because _you_ want to be an ubergeek?) or for freeware. None of 'em. The very first link on that page is the only one which mentions an actual, for-real, plug-in. It goes into some detail about it. In fact, it says quite a lot about it. Except that it doesn't say where to get it! And it's for Eudora for Windows, anyway! I gotta wonder if it'd work on a Mac, even if it existed, which it doesn't seem to! Now, _I_ happened to do a slightly different search () and found this: . The interesting part about that is the specs: QUALCOMM Eudora Pro e-mail client 4.0, 4.2, 4.3.2, 5.0.2 Power Macintosh 8200, 8600, iMac, or G3 Macintosh System 8.1, 8.5, 8.5.1, 8.6 or 9.0 It appears that they know not OS X. Or G4s. Or Eudora 6. Hell, they don't seem to know OS 9.1 or Eudora 5.2! Really up-to-the-minute stuff! And that's the _only_ plug-in I was able to find for Eudora for Mac! The next closest was ... except that that site doesn't have the actual plug-in, they're not allowed to mirror it, and the site which allegedly does have the plug-in, in the Czech Republic, no longer seems to exist. But, hey, you can try it for yourself. This guy's blog goes into fair detail about the problems with s/mime under OS X... (Hint: it's one of the links on your list...) If it's not asking too much, perhaps you could give a pointer to an actual, for real, actually shipping, s/mime plug in for Eudora for Mac OS X? Just one will do. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Mon Nov 3 21:23:00 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Little Panther annoyances In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > - Dragging items to and from the Desktop seems quite a bit slower than > before. For example, when dragging a file from the Desktop to the > Trash, there is a one second delay before the file disappears from the > Desktop (is anybody else seeing this?). I notice this too (800Mhz G3 iBook, 384MB). What's odd is that I notice it when dragging *to* the desktop, but not when dragging *from* the desktop. It doesn't seem to happen with other folders in icon view, even ones that have a lot of icons in them. > - The animation when scrolling a window by dragging the scrollbar > doesn't seem nearly as "smooth" as before. There is a kind of jerky, > or rather "wavy" effect (it's a bit hard to describe). I haven't noticed this. I wonder if it could have something to do with the multiple processors (I assume that's what the MDD stands for) and something to do with the way the scheduler works? Just a very very long-shot. > - In Mail, the "Get New Mail" toolbar button now gets new mail in all > accounts, even if the It would be nice if the different Mail accounts in the Mailbox pane had a little "Get Mail" icon like the "Eject" icon next to the drive names. Jim From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Nov 3 21:24:07 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 7:10 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 7:29 PM, Steven Palm wrote: > >> >> On Nov 3, 2003, at 5:54 PM, Charles Dyer wrote: >> >>> At 16:20 -0600 03/11/2003, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >>>> Ok, I am lost already. I bought Panther for one reason and one >>>> reason only. I had hoped I would finally be able to map a given >>>> signature to a particular account. Is there still no way to do >>>> this? >>> >>> Not unless you get Eudora or some other client. Mail doesn't seem to >>> support multiple signatures, and at this point I'd say that this is >>> because they don't want to. >> >> No, it's already been publicly stated that this is a highly >> requested feature, and they'd love to put it in, but it still hasn't >> made it far enough up the list in comparison to other things they >> need to do. The Mail team is only so big and the workload for them >> is, apparently, much bigger. > > For Pete's sake.. I have heard this crap long enough. How hard can it > be to do this? I have a programmer on staff that indicated 5 minutes > was the extent of time he would need to implement this. So we have > time to pretty up the icons? But no time to add a simple feature? > I'm not sure I follow logic or believe it anymore. No one is disputing it'd be a nice thing to have. I can't offer any wisdom or insight into why it hasn't been done, but it hasn't. Either live with it, or not... but your programmer is in no position to say how much time it would take anyway, and I hope you have enough sense to know that for ANY feature 5 minutes is a gross exageration. Period. Yeah, it may be simple compared to some other things -- but then there could be technical reasons we're not aware of - let alone priorities that trump those reasons. I think looking at the final appearance of a feature and then declaring it a five minute task, all told, is naively bold and discounts all the great work that has gone into a free app that has shaped up very nicely in this release (IMHO, of course). There are many "simple features" and I doubt any of them took anything less than several orders of magnitude more staff time than 5 minutes. >> >> If I ever get around to releasing it, I have a plugin for Mail that >> tracks your signature to your sending account... It's mostly a matter >> of coming up with a nice easy to use installer (average people can't >> be bothered with terminal commands and I can't be bothered with >> walking them through it) and a place to host it. > Send the source to Mail.App and I'll have my guys add the friggin > thing. Well now you're just getting silly. How about you task your programmer with writing a plugin, apparently it's possible. Then you can donate it to Apple and hope they spend the five minutes integrating the thing... surely they have a janitor to spare. Or if they don't want it, then you'll still have a plugin you can use. Or get another mail client that does this - Entourage has been around years with this feature. -R From sstevenson at mac.com Mon Nov 3 21:38:10 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: AARRG!! Useful undocumented feature fixed in Panther! In-Reply-To: References: <1962A2A6-0E82-11D8-B558-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 9:01 PM, Hsu wrote: > How do you even get this dialog? I just changed a bunch of extensions, > and I never got a dialog... You have to change it to an extension that Finder "knows" about -- jpg, txt, html, etc. to see a dialog. This "sometimes" aspect of the design seems very poor, because you can end changing file names without knowing it. The philosophy is supposed to be that the user gets whatever they type, but this only works inside of common file extensions. Example: myfile.txt 1. Rename it to "myfile" and the true name is still "myfile.txt". The Finder is just hiding the extension. 2. Now rename it to "myfile.html". You'll be prompted and the true name will now be "myfile.html" 3. Finally, rename it to "myfile.foo". No prompting, but the file is now called "myfile.foo.html" You could probably argue either way about Step 1, but Step 3 seems like a major problem to me. Under Jaguar, I ran into a lot of frustrations when I would rename .html files to .php but they weren't parsed by the PHP module. It turns out they had actually been renamed to .php.html because Finder didn't "know" about the .php filename extension. It caused me enough problems, but I at least knew what was going on. I assume a number of Windows/Linux users encounter this and have a much harder time resolving it. To be fair, Apple is trying to please two or three distinct philosophies on the matter, and have done a reasonable job. I just wish they'd do something about Step 3. When in doubt, do one of the following: 1. Get info on the file and choose the "name and extension" section 2. Use the command line 3. Finder -> Preferences -> "Show all file extensions For the record, I actually think hitting escape in the dialog should not change the extension (as it does in Panther). Esc isn't supposed to do what you 'really' want, it's supposed to bail you out with the least amount of action. I actually think Esc should cancel the rename entirely in this case. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Mon Nov 3 21:56:10 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031104050806.MOPP1811.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: "Bill Coleman" wrote: > Like creating a browser-based application that doesn't use HTML -- instead it > carries a Windows-specific binary to the browser. It may be called IE, but it > certainly sounds like a proprietary system to me. A though road is ahead for Apple to adopt and/or position/compete against this: d*g From jer at mia.net Mon Nov 3 22:05:40 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 11:07 PM, Hsu wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 7:10 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > >> For Pete's sake.. I have heard this crap long enough. How hard can >> it be to do this? I have a programmer on staff that indicated 5 >> minutes was the extent of time he would need to implement this. So >> we have time to pretty up the icons? But no time to add a simple >> feature? I'm not sure I follow logic or believe it anymore. > > coding + testing + preferences + preferences testing + localization + > localization testing + documentation + documentation localization >= 5 > minutes. blah, blah, blah.. > > And, of course, X minutes on this is X minutes away from something > else. Maybe something else is more important. How many users have more > than 1 email account and use signatures and care which sig goes to > which account? Quite a few actually.. Try personal account vs. work account and so on. Even Claris Emailer had this feature. Personally I do not consider it a feature at all, more of a standard mail option. > > I think it'd be a swell feature, but I can think of several other > swell features I'd like more - several are "5 minute" jobbies as well. > Oh yeah, like changing "Compose" to "New" that was certainly needed. Thank God for that.. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From macosxtalk at robburns.com Mon Nov 3 22:12:49 2003 From: macosxtalk at robburns.com (Rob Burns) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Another reason Adobe Reader 6 on Mac OS X Sucks In-Reply-To: References: <3FC96950-0786-11D8-B0CA-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <1A14217C-0E8D-11D8-A825-000393C43C60@robburns.com> On Oct 26, 2003, at 4:32 PM, steve harley wrote: > at 20031026, 01:30 -0600, they whom i call Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks > Inc. wrote: >> I wanted to fill out a form in Adobe Reader and then print it to PDF. >> So I chose PRINT and then SAVE AS PDF in the print dialog and it >> says that that is not supported. First app that has ever said that >> to me. > > Adobe seems to have done this on purpose to help drive > Acrobat Pro sales.. it used to work in version 5.. there is > a workaround: save as a PostScript file and use the > ghostscript ps2pdf to convert to PDF.. i found this didn't > work unless i used a Distiller PPD (i created a dummy > printer instance using the PPD for Distiller 5).. i set it > to output PDF 1.4.. got good results It doesn't work in Acrobat Pro either. I think Adobe thinks it's a security issue. Particularly if an author of a pdf file locks things down, Adobe doesn't want you to be able to render it as a clean new pdf with no restrictions. Of course the postscript to pdf route work around accomplishes the same thing, so I don't really understand what it does in the end. Rob __________________________ Robert Burns mailto:rob@robburns.com From mstearne at entermix.com Mon Nov 3 22:34:52 2003 From: mstearne at entermix.com (Michael Stearne) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031104050806.MOPP1811.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> References: <20031104050806.MOPP1811.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: On Nov 4, 2003, at 12:08 AM, Bill Coleman wrote: > > I dunno. The basic drawing architecture of NeXTstep / OpenStep / MacOS > X > / Longhorn is pretty much a natural evolution from the bitmapped > graphics > system of the earliest Mac or Xerox systems. Essentially, the earliest > systems drew directly on the screen member because it saved gobs of > space, and memory was expensive. NeXTstep drew (just about) everything > offscreen and then compositied the image to the screen. Obviously smart work. NeXT is well known to be extremely innovative. > MacOS X added > some interesting transforms to this process. Longhorn copies this, Sure they copied "this" meaning NeXT's work, but with the massive R&D MS does why didn't they copy it before itty-bitty Apple. > but in > Microsoft's own fashion. Fo' sure. :-) >>> No, the real parts of Longhorn to fear are the CLR and all the .NET >>> technologies. >> >> Yes, definitely. But then again Linux's growth is not something >> Microsoft can stop. Microsoft for once will have to compete. > > Microsoft has returned to their old formula. While preaching a gospel > of > complete interoperabiltiy, they are promising (and delivering!) a > number > of easy-to-use tools that ensure your applications are totally > locked-in > to their technologies. > I know, like the XML format for Word documents that they've been promising for 4 years, yet didn't even do it in Office 2003. >>> While Apple wasn't able to pull off a complete conversion of existing >>> applications with its Rhapsody strategy, Microsoft can easily >>> convince >>> one of the biggest application's developers -- itself. >> >> What do you mean by this? > > Originally, Apple chose to separate classic MacOS and Rhapsody coding. > To > upgrade an existing MacOS application to Rhapsody, you had to re-write > all of your UI code in Cocoa. > I remember this. > Developers didn't go for it. They had too much invested in the old > toolbox. That's why Apple had to fix the toolbox to work on MacOS X -- > a > technology we call Carbon. > > Microsoft faces much the same situation. In order to get many of the > benefits of Longhorn, developers must convert their existing code into > Longhorn-specific code. That's very expensive, and developers would > resist this. However, Microsoft has no problem convincing the largest > application developer from doing this -- because they are the largest > application developer. > But with .NET its actually a little less drastic than totally converting to Cocoa. Miguel de Icaza explained how .Net (or Mono) frameworks can be included in legacy C/C++ code. It seems to be done well. From: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-02-06-011-20-OP-GN-MS ... The short story is: rewriting code does not pay off, and I agree with the thesis of the article. Rewriting GNOME in C# with the CLR would be a very bad idea, if not the worst possible idea ever. But what makes the .NET Framework technologies interesting is that they are evolutionary technologies: * The runtime can be linked into an application. Example: bash$ cat hello.c #include main (int argc, char *argv []) { mono_init (argc, argv); mono_assembly_load ("classes.dll"); mono_ves_execute ("Class.Main"); } So existing applications can be "extended" with Mono, take a piece of code like Gnumeric, and write a new chunk of it using Mono for example. * There is no language switch required. You can keep using your fav language, and gradually start writing new pieces of code in another language that runs with all the benefits of "managed" execution. I go into some more detail here: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-devel-list/2002-February/ msg00021.html >> Yes they are. But if the Mono project works out well (as long as >> Microsoft doesn't completely sabotage it) Mono will free users from >> vendor lock in. Supporting Java will help even more than Mono. Java >> levels the developer playing field. James Gosling uses a Mac to do >> Java >> work. :-) > > I heard about some even scarier stuff today. Like creating a > browser-based application that doesn't use HTML -- instead it carries a > Windows-specific binary to the browser. It may be called IE, but it > certainly sounds like a proprietary system to me. > That is just like ActiveX today. It really sucks that they do this, just shut out non-Windows users intentionally. They could have implemented ActiveX on Mac if they wanted to. I often times simply cannot recommend a Mac if the user relies on a IE/ActiveX site. That sucks. Michael From pmarcos at apple.com Mon Nov 3 22:46:28 2003 From: pmarcos at apple.com (Paul Marcos) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Profont and Mail.app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A4947F6-0E4A-11D8-AF1A-000A957054BE@apple.com> On Oct 31, 2003, at 23:26, Lukreme wrote: > How does mail.app determine what a "fixed width" font is? And how to > I force it to use profont? Mail asks Cocoa for the list of fixed width fonts and this list is not always complete. Unfortunately I don't know the logic behind how Cocoa determines this. I've filed a bug for this. Paul From sstevenson at mac.com Mon Nov 3 23:11:05 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: AARRG!! Useful undocumented feature fixed in Panther! In-Reply-To: References: <1962A2A6-0E82-11D8-B558-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: Responding to myself: On Nov 3, 2003, at 9:37 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > For the record, I actually think hitting escape in the dialog should > not change the extension (as it does in Panther) Just a small clarification: I believe the behavior in Panther is better than Jaguar, but I think Esc should cancel the rename entirely. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Nov 3 23:14:18 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: AARRG!! Useful undocumented feature fixed in Panther! In-Reply-To: References: <1962A2A6-0E82-11D8-B558-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: at 20031103, 21:37 -0800, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: >For the record, I actually think hitting escape in the dialog should >not change the extension (as it does in Panther). Esc isn't supposed >to do what you 'really' want, it's supposed to bail you out with the >least amount of action. I actually think Esc should cancel the >rename entirely in this case. i agree.. generally you can use command-key shortcuts to choose the options presented in simple dialogs.. i use command-D for Don't Save all the time.. command-K (Keep) and command-U (Use) don't work this dialog in Jaguar Finder though.. i don't know if the HI guidelines spell this out, but it might be considered a bug if the shortcuts aren't there in Panther -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Nov 3 23:16:46 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: <41ECE336-0DDD-11D8-8354-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> References: <36DCAC70-0AFE-11D8-8092-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> <41ECE336-0DDD-11D8-8354-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: at 20031103, 03:08 -0600, they whom i call Ian Ragsdale wrote: >On Oct 30, 2003, at 2:28 PM, steve harley wrote: > >> Apple apparently agreed.. there >>are several other app-switching UIs it could have copied, >>but it copied Proteron's > >Excuse me, but do you have any evidence that they copied Proteron? i didn't mean it quite that literally -- perhaps "derived" would be better.. mainly, i meant to point out there are a few other app switchers, and Apple chose a paradigm most similar to what Proteron chose -- centered on the screen instead of a drawer or edge of screen, transparent grey panel behind the set, white outlining of current item.. the latter i don't recall seeing on any Apple UI before -- is it used somewhere else? if not, how was it the "obvious" choice that some think it was? at the very least, if we assume that Apple's new design is good, we have the fact that Proteron implemented a good design first.. since Apple already had an app-switcher, with a unique and much-touted design, what i really wonder is what process Apple went through to decide to change it ... -- steve harley From mic at micmac.com Mon Nov 3 23:26:53 2003 From: mic at micmac.com (Michel Coste) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Freedom versus Childish Behavior WAS Re: smime.p7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6503BF94-0E97-11D8-A507-000502478B8F@micmac.com> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031103/cd17f797/PGP.bin From ian at SKYLIST.net Mon Nov 3 23:32:26 2003 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: References: <36DCAC70-0AFE-11D8-8092-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> <41ECE336-0DDD-11D8-8354-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: <5BFF15AE-0E98-11D8-8354-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> On Nov 4, 2003, at 1:13 AM, steve harley wrote: > at 20031103, 03:08 -0600, they whom i call Ian Ragsdale wrote: >> On Oct 30, 2003, at 2:28 PM, steve harley wrote: >> >>> Apple apparently agreed.. there >>> are several other app-switching UIs it could have copied, >>> but it copied Proteron's >> >> Excuse me, but do you have any evidence that they copied Proteron? > > i didn't mean it quite that literally -- perhaps "derived" > would be better.. mainly, i meant to point out there are a > few other app switchers, and Apple chose a paradigm most > similar to what Proteron chose -- centered on the screen > instead of a drawer or edge of screen, transparent grey > panel behind the set, white outlining of current item.. the > latter i don't recall seeing on any Apple UI before -- is it > used somewhere else? if not, how was it the "obvious" choice > that some think it was? The list centered on the screen was more likely derived from windows, same as Proteron's UI. The transparent grey panel is very clearly an extension of the volume/brightness UI. I don't recall the use of a white outline of the current item anywhere else, but it seems like a pretty obvious way to solve the problem of indicating which app is selected. I'm not saying they definitely didn't copy it, I just happen to think that they could very easily have come up with something extremely similar on their own, so I'm not going to assume that they did copy it, absent any real proof. > at the very least, if we assume that Apple's new design is > good, we have the fact that Proteron implemented a good > design first.. since Apple already had an app-switcher, with > a unique and much-touted design, what i really wonder is > what process Apple went through to decide to change it ... I think the reason their design worked so well was because they built on and extended what was already in OS X. The only part I would call in any way original is the white outline for a selected app, and I think that part was pretty trivial. In fact, I would call it so trivial that I don't care at all if Apple copied it - it's not really much of an extension, and certainly far less of a copy than Proteron or Apple getting the entire concept of command-tab application switching from windows, which I don't hear anybody complaining about. Ian From ian at SKYLIST.net Mon Nov 3 23:37:25 2003 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: AARRG!! Useful undocumented feature fixed in Panther! In-Reply-To: References: <1962A2A6-0E82-11D8-B558-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: On Nov 4, 2003, at 1:12 AM, steve harley wrote: > at 20031103, 21:37 -0800, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: >> For the record, I actually think hitting escape in the dialog should >> not change the extension (as it does in Panther). Esc isn't supposed >> to do what you 'really' want, it's supposed to bail you out with the >> least amount of action. I actually think Esc should cancel the rename >> entirely in this case. > > i agree.. generally you can use command-key shortcuts to > choose the options presented in simple dialogs.. i use > command-D for Don't Save all the time.. command-K (Keep) and > command-U (Use) don't work this dialog in Jaguar Finder > though.. i don't know if the HI guidelines spell this out, > but it might be considered a bug if the shortcuts aren't > there in Panther Of course, if you have full keyboard controls enabled you can quickly hit either enter for the default and or tab then space bar to select the other and choose it. That's why I don't get too annoyed by that dialog. I do agree it should have real shortcuts though. Ian From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Mon Nov 3 23:59:21 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: References: <36DCAC70-0AFE-11D8-8092-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> <41ECE336-0DDD-11D8-8354-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: <20031104072913.GD3501@Dark-Age.local> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:13:27AM -0700, steve harley wrote: : : i didn't mean it quite that literally -- perhaps "derived" : would be better.. mainly, i meant to point out there are a : few other app switchers, and Apple chose a paradigm most : similar to what Proteron chose -- centered on the screen : instead of a drawer or edge of screen, transparent grey : panel behind the set, white outlining of current item.. the : latter i don't recall seeing on any Apple UI before -- is it : used somewhere else? if not, how was it the "obvious" choice : that some think it was? : : at the very least, if we assume that Apple's new design is : good, we have the fact that Proteron implemented a good : design first.. Since other app switchers (including Windoze and especially DESQview) implemented similar visual paradigms some time ago, it is not a fact that Proteron was first. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Nov 4 00:14:49 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: what's with this "caching" business on Mail.app Panther? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi On Nov 2, 2003, at 7:34 AM, Peter Gort wrote: > Whether a message has been read or not is stored in your account on > the IMAP server. Yes > Which mail client it was read with is not. Yes > Therefore Mail.app is doing exactly what is asked of it, ie caching > every message whose read characteristic is true. No. It didn't work this way in Jag and it shouldn't work that way in Panther. It should only cache those messages for which it was used to read the message. Otherwise, there is little difference (there is a small one) between cache all and cache only the read messages. Mail.app has no business downloading all the mail on the server that has been marked read. No other IMAP client I have tried does this and it didn't do it on Jaguar either. And the option in the prefs implies that it means for which it is used to read. It does not say to cache, but rather to "keep" . So it only should keep those it was used to download in the first place. It should not "keep" something it was never used to download in the first place. It should only cache those messages which it was used to read. > It has no way of knowing which mail client read which message. True, but it doesn't matter. best Chad > > Peter > > On 28/10/2003, at 6:23 AM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > >> Hi >> >> I have all my mailboxes set to cache only read messages. (This is >> with IMAP) >> >> Panther mail seems to think that any and all mail that in the past, >> even ones read 2 years ago using Mulberry, need to now be downloaded >> and cached. This did not happen on Jaguar. >> >> I want it to only cache those messages that I read with Mail.app, not >> my whole history of mail in my mail folders... >> >> Chad > From guy.english at sympatico.ca Tue Nov 4 00:17:20 2003 From: guy.english at sympatico.ca (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: FireWire 800 Drives In-Reply-To: <94007A56-0E0A-11D8-8ED6-0003938AC5DA@mac.com> References: <73818CBE-0DC3-11D8-8F9E-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> <94007A56-0E0A-11D8-8ED6-0003938AC5DA@mac.com> Message-ID: Thanks, I'll check them out. Guy On Nov 3, 2003, at 9:32 AM, Michael Caplinger wrote: > I have 2 FW 800 drives from OWC, www.otherworldcomputing.com and > several older FW 400 drives. I'm quite happy with them, and OWC has > great customer service. But the drives are not as pretty as the LaCie > drives! (They are cheaper though) > > Mike Caplinger > System Administrator > Dept of Physics and Astronomy > University of Georgia > (706)542-3622 > mikecap@uga.edu > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 1:03 AM, Guy English wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> >> With all this ruckus about Panther killing FireWire 800 drives I >> thought, "Hey, I need on of those". I've been shuffling lots of stuff >> back and forth from my desktop to my iBook recently with all the >> Panther seeds and I've decided to just invest in a real drive instead >> of using the iBook in target disk mode half the time. >> >> What I'd like to know is which models people recommend. I'm quite >> taken with the LaCie Porsche designed drives. Mostly because they >> look pretty and I'm a bit of a sucker for that. My current desktop is >> a dual 450 G4 ( so FireWire 400 ) but I'd like a drive that will do >> either 800 or 400 so when I get my G5 it can take advantage of the >> FireWire 800 onboard. Any suggestions? >> >> Thanks, >> Guy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From guy.english at sympatico.ca Tue Nov 4 00:21:10 2003 From: guy.english at sympatico.ca (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Educate me: Font Management In-Reply-To: References: <1E8E394A-0DC3-11D8-8F9E-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <65EDBAE3-0E9F-11D8-8F9E-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Thanks for the explanation. I hadn't thought of the clients supplying the fonts so it makes much more sense now. Guy On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:49 AM, steve harley wrote: > at 20031103, 01:01 -0500, they whom i call Guy English wrote: >> What's the big deal with Font Management anyway? I understand the >> mechanics of it but I'm not sure why one would care to activate or >> deactivate fonts all the time. > > first, it's not just activation management.. professional > font managers allow the user to filter, inspect and validate > fonts, to print reports, and sometimes to centrally manage > fonts in a networked environment.. these are time-saving and > accuracy-improving features > > as for activation/deactivation, in some environments you > simply have to do a lot of this.. activating all fonts in a > library generally isn't desirable (makes font menus unusable > in non-Cocoa apps, for one thing).. fonts are often supplied > by clients, and must be used in lieue of same-named fonts > (PDF workflow obviates some of this).. auto-activation is a > big time-saver where appropriate > >> Why is Font Book considered bad? Why is Suitcase so much better? > > it's not that it's "bad" (imo), but it's got some major > bugs, and it's got only a subset of professional features.. > for casual inspection and activation it should work fine > after a solid release is achieved, and Font Book seems to > have a good paradigm.. but Apple has positioned Font Book > poorly by hinting at professional usage.. or maybe Apple is > squatting in the middle ground, ready to ramp up the > features if Extensis and Insider can't get it together.. in > any case the significant issues are 1) bugs and 2) confusion > about whether it's for professionals > > -- > steve harley > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From kcall at mac.com Tue Nov 4 00:25:18 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: <20031104072913.GD3501@Dark-Age.local> References: <36DCAC70-0AFE-11D8-8092-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> <41ECE336-0DDD-11D8-8354-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <20031104072913.GD3501@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <4B1CA22C-0EA0-11D8-8BF7-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 11:29 PM, Eugene Lee wrote: > > Since other app switchers (including Windoze and especially DESQview) > implemented similar visual paradigms some time ago, it is not a fact > that Proteron was first. the white border might not be the only thing Proteron copied. Kevin From ploiku at earthlink.net Tue Nov 4 00:33:19 2003 From: ploiku at earthlink.net (Hsu) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <7A920FCF-0EA1-11D8-A306-000A9566627E@earthlink.net> On Nov 3, 2003, at 10:03 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > blah, blah, blah.. Nice response. Very articulate. Karl -- for best results read this e-mail out loud while gargling on a snake Homepage: http://homepage.mac.com/khsu/index.html From ploiku at earthlink.net Tue Nov 4 00:37:16 2003 From: ploiku at earthlink.net (Hsu) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: AARRG!! Useful undocumented feature fixed in Panther! In-Reply-To: References: <1962A2A6-0E82-11D8-B558-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: <03DD8A08-0EA2-11D8-A306-000A9566627E@earthlink.net> On Nov 3, 2003, at 9:37 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > You have to change it to an extension that Finder "knows" about -- > jpg, txt, html, etc. to see a dialog. Ah hah. You have to have extension hiding active - if extensions are always shown, it doesn't prompt. Annoyingly, if you are prompted, you can't use KB navigation on the dialog - the alternate button gets the halo, and looks like it activates, but doesn't actually do so. I filed a bug on that. Karl -- Variables won?t, constants aren?t. Homepage: http://homepage.mac.com/khsu/index.html From michaelm at opendarwin.org Tue Nov 4 01:41:48 2003 From: michaelm at opendarwin.org (Michael Maibaum) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: smime.p7s - Eudora plug-in? In-Reply-To: References: <25949240-0808-11D8-AB7D-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <49E39D4C-080D-11D8-8989-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <0B283E83-0869-11D8-83A7-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> <485E7D01-0E7A-11D8-8A83-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <45BBAE74-0EA4-11D8-8609-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> On Nov 4, 2003, at 05:08, Charles Dyer wrote: > > If it's not asking too much, perhaps you could give a pointer to an > actual, for real, actually shipping, s/mime plug in for Eudora for Mac > OS X? Just one will do. > http://www.pgp.com/products/personal/index.html Sadly, this is a solution only for the entourage people.... and Eudora for windows, despite my initial thought it would work for you as well. personally, I gave up using Eudora a long time ago . Michael -- Michael Maibaum internet: mike@maibaum.org | http://mike.maibaum.org voice: [m] 07958 604025 | From alexfuller at mac.com Tue Nov 4 02:16:16 2003 From: alexfuller at mac.com (Alex Fuller) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther Mail Threading: disappointed In-Reply-To: <76781AC6-089C-11D8-A5EA-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> References: <76781AC6-089C-11D8-A5EA-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Message-ID: I take it everyone has worked out the keyboard shortcuts to navigate threads? (When using up & down arrow to flick up and down the message list, you can use right and left arrow to expand and collapse a thread). When expanding a thread this takes you to (usually) the earliest unread message in the thread. Took me a while to find them when I first started using threads, but I find them incredibly convenient. Alex From toble at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Nov 4 03:42:48 2003 From: toble at blueyonder.co.uk (Toby Morris) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: PPS Extensions Message-ID: Hi - sorry to be a pain but can someone point me in the direction of opening an attachment with a .pps extension - cheers T From pelorus at mac.com Tue Nov 4 03:55:57 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: PPS Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4 Nov 2003, at 11:12, Toby Morris wrote: > Hi - sorry to be a pain but can someone point me in the direction of > opening an attachment with a .pps extension - cheers Powerpoint From pelorus at mac.com Tue Nov 4 04:01:42 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Outlook. Should. Be. Shot Message-ID: <9C3A8530-0EB6-11D8-8450-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> So, you're an Outlook 4.5 user and you want to move to Mac OS X. For some reason Mail won't import all of the Outlook 4.5 files so you do a backup and move to Outlook 5.02 just to make sure it's not that. Of course, Outlook 5.02 refuses to import the Outlook 4.5 files as well so what do you do with 83 MB of mail files that Outlook refuses to do anything with and Mail just gives you the knowing look that says "Well, you DID use Outlook..." So...eudora has worked in the past as a way to get email moved from Outlook but due to the excellence that is Outlooks proprietary format, it's unable to get all of it. Colour me utterly disgusted. I'm feeling very hostile towards anyone who has anything to do with that sonofabitch company. BEWARE: Stay away from Outlook, Entourage and Microsoft!!!!!!!!!! M From charlesd at newsguy.com Tue Nov 4 04:28:49 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: smime.p7s - Eudora plug-in? In-Reply-To: <45BBAE74-0EA4-11D8-8609-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> References: <25949240-0808-11D8-AB7D-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <49E39D4C-080D-11D8-8989-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <0B283E83-0869-11D8-83A7-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> <485E7D01-0E7A-11D8-8A83-000A95935598@kreme.com> <45BBAE74-0EA4-11D8-8609-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> Message-ID: At 08:52 +0000 04/11/2003, Michael Maibaum wrote: >On Nov 4, 2003, at 05:08, Charles Dyer wrote: > >> >>If it's not asking too much, perhaps you could >>give a pointer to an actual, for real, actually >>shipping, s/mime plug in for Eudora for Mac OS >>X? Just one will do. >> > > >http://www.pgp.com/products/personal/index.html > > >Sadly, this is a solution only for the entourage >people.... and Eudora for windows, despite my >initial thought it would work for you as well. I've got the Personal Desktop version of this thing. I know very well that it doesn't deliver the goods for Eudora for Mac OS X. (Unless, of course, I'm Doing It Wrong?. If I _am_ Doing It Wrong?, I would greatly appreciate someone letting me know how to Do It Right?.) > >personally, I gave up using Eudora a long time ago . There are many things I don't like about Eudora. Unfortunately, there are _fewer_ things that I don't like about Eudora than the things I don't like about about every other mail client I've tried. Including Apple Mail, Thunderbird, MailSmith, GnuMail, and Entourage. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From michaelm at opendarwin.org Tue Nov 4 05:08:14 2003 From: michaelm at opendarwin.org (Michael Maibaum) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: smime.p7s - Eudora plug-in? In-Reply-To: References: <25949240-0808-11D8-AB7D-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <49E39D4C-080D-11D8-8989-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <0B283E83-0869-11D8-83A7-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> <485E7D01-0E7A-11D8-8A83-000A95935598@kreme.com> <45BBAE74-0EA4-11D8-8609-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> Message-ID: <8420A1AC-0EC6-11D8-8438-000A95BA5F0A@opendarwin.org> On 4 Nov 2003, at 12:04, Charles Dyer wrote: > At 08:52 +0000 04/11/2003, Michael Maibaum wrote: >> On Nov 4, 2003, at 05:08, Charles Dyer wrote: >> >>> >>> If it's not asking too much, perhaps you could give a pointer to an >>> actual, for real, actually shipping, s/mime plug in for Eudora for >>> Mac OS X? Just one will do. >>> >> >> >> http://www.pgp.com/products/personal/index.html >> >> >> Sadly, this is a solution only for the entourage people.... and >> Eudora for windows, despite my initial thought it would work for you >> as well. > > I've got the Personal Desktop version of this thing. I know very well > that it doesn't deliver the goods for Eudora for Mac OS X. (Unless, of > course, I'm Doing It Wrong?. If I _am_ Doing It Wrong?, I would > greatly appreciate someone letting me know how to Do It Right?.) I don't think you are doing anything wrong...like said, they only support Eudora for windows... it seems like a great many other people, even PGP is dropping Eudora for the Mac. It used to be the best email app out there for OS < X (with the honourable, if shortlived exception of Claris emailer). It know seems to be a study in how to wipe out customer loyalty (adware) and features that we don't need (chilli rankings anyone?) oh well... the combination of mutt and Mail.app serve me well now. Michael From ehrich at mninter.net Tue Nov 4 05:17:10 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: AARRG!! Useful undocumented feature fixed in Panther! In-Reply-To: <03DD8A08-0EA2-11D8-A306-000A9566627E@earthlink.net> References: <1962A2A6-0E82-11D8-B558-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> <03DD8A08-0EA2-11D8-A306-000A9566627E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: >>You have to change it to an extension that Finder "knows" about -- >>jpg, txt, html, etc. to see a dialog. When I put a unix command file, with no extension, in my home directory, the system decided that a different file, a text list of addresses, was also a command file. I had to add a .txt extension to fix it. But we can now have more than eight characters in the main part of the file name, so there's some progress! ;-) -- Bill Ehrich From ehrich at mninter.net Tue Nov 4 05:17:42 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Mail.app white lists Message-ID: In Eudora I use lists of friends' and vendors' email addresses, and partial addresses, as white lists in my filter. Is there any way to do that in Mail.app yet, or do I have to make an "Address Book.app" business card or a separate filter rule for each one? -- Bill Ehrich From peter.frings at agfa.com Tue Nov 4 08:06:26 2003 From: peter.frings at agfa.com (Peter Frings) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Panther Mail.app Bug? In-Reply-To: <2BD8BE7E-08A2-11D8-8F2D-000393073BE6@apple.com> Message-ID: on 27-10-2003 19:22, cricket wrote: > POP doesn't support moving messages to the inbox. While the error > message is unfortunate, this is why you are getting it. > > - cricket > on 27-10-2003 01:31, Michael Burns wrote: > It works fine for me. I just took your original message from my > OSX-talk folder where they get auto sorted by a filter and dragged > it to my iTools:MichaelBurns slot of my inbox. Then I opened that > and found your message there. Now, I replying to that copy. > Is that what you were trying to do? > On Oct 26, 2003, at 2:15 PM, David J. Haines wrote: > >> I am using Mail.app with a POP3 account. For some reason I can't >> move messages from any of the folders I created to the "In" folder. >> It gives me an error saying "The destination mailbox does not exist." >> I was wondering if anybody else is experiencing this also. I suppose >> I'm also asking whether there are any fixes as well. I've been struggling with that same issue, but found a solution (workaround). Mail doesn't let you move it on the 'In' box directly, probably because there is no real mailbox associated with it: it's a union of all inboxes of all accounts, even if you have only one account. However, Mail does move the messages if you drag them to a specific inbox (this is what Michael Burns did) - something you can't do when you have only one account. The workaround is easy: create a second, dummy POP account (no need to enter real names and stuff), and you'll now see you can expand the 'In' box. Expand the 'In' box, and drag the messages onto 'real' mailbox (your real account), and voila, task accomplished. Cheers, Peter. From treaves at silverfieldstech.com Tue Nov 4 08:16:20 2003 From: treaves at silverfieldstech.com (Timothy Reaves) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: WWDC DVD In-Reply-To: <9E654EB4-0E91-11D8-A64F-000A95A6C778@freetimesw.com> References: <382B5796-0E64-11D8-8663-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com> <9E654EB4-0E91-11D8-A64F-000A95A6C778@freetimesw.com> Message-ID: <65051.4.2.170.194.1067961892.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> I did not know this. I wonder why? I realize Apple wants people to attend, but some of us cannot due to time constraints, or monitary constraints. They realize giving away the development tools is a good thing, I'd think they'd want people to see their presentations as well. > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 5:14 PM, T Reaves wrote: > >> Does anyone have a WWDC DVD they would be interested in loaning out? > > AFAIK they cannot do so because of legalities. > > -Shawn > > From pcoskren at mac.com Tue Nov 4 08:30:36 2003 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: Little Panther annoyances In-Reply-To: <77CBF8BC-0E7C-11D8-93B0-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <77CBF8BC-0E7C-11D8-93B0-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <19F7BD4A-0EE2-11D8-B114-000A9586BA18@mac.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 11:07 PM, Martin Nadeau wrote: > On 03 Nov 2003, at 02:59, Martin Nadeau wrote: >> - The animation when scrolling a window by dragging the scrollbar >> doesn't seem nearly as "smooth" as before. There is a kind of jerky, >> or rather "wavy" effect (it's a bit hard to describe). In fact, it >> looks a little like scrolling in OS 9 with hardware acceleration >> extensions turned off. It doesn't happen all the time, but often. >> Does anyone else see this? Maybe it's related to computer and video >> card models? I have a G4 MDD with a Radeon 9000 Pro. I'll bet you have "smooth scrolling" turned on in the Appearance control panel. For some reason, I found it made scrolling *less* smooth; it looked like the app and the OS might be fighting over proper positioning. I turned it off yesterday and haven't noticed the problem since. -Patrick From jared at 23x.net Tue Nov 4 08:38:21 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: AARRG!! Useful undocumented feature fixed in Panther! In-Reply-To: References: <1962A2A6-0E82-11D8-B558-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> <03DD8A08-0EA2-11D8-A306-000A9566627E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3FA7D221.2040209@23x.net> William Ehrich wrote: > When I put a unix command file, with no extension, in my home directory, > the system decided that a different file, a text list of addresses, was > also a command file. I had to add a .txt extension to fix it. $ chmod ugo-x filename -- "Shiny!" jared@23x.net From shawnce at mac.com Tue Nov 4 08:44:10 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <20031104050806.MOPP1811.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: On Nov 3, 2003, at 10:25 PM, Michael Stearne wrote: >> Developers didn't go for it. They had too much invested in the old >> toolbox. That's why Apple had to fix the toolbox to work on MacOS X >> -- a >> technology we call Carbon. >> >> Microsoft faces much the same situation. In order to get many of the >> benefits of Longhorn, developers must convert their existing code into >> Longhorn-specific code. That's very expensive, and developers would >> resist this. However, Microsoft has no problem convincing the largest >> application developer from doing this -- because they are the largest >> application developer. >> > > But with .NET its actually a little less drastic than totally > converting to Cocoa. Miguel de Icaza explained how .Net (or Mono) > frameworks can be included in legacy C/C++ code. It seems to be done > well. You can mix legacy C, C++ (Java, Pyhton, AppleScript, etc.) with Cocoa, you do not have to do a full switch. Many established cross-platform apps/games on Mac OS X have C++ cores wrapped by an AppKit UI. -Shawn From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Tue Nov 4 08:58:48 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <857FED82-0EE5-11D8-A979-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 4, 2003, at 12:55 AM, Dan Gaters wrote: > A though road is ahead for Apple to adopt and/or position/compete > against > this: > Wake me three years from now, when this MIGHT be shipping, and we'll see if Apple has reason to be scared. Until then, *YAWN*. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Tue Nov 4 09:12:55 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:11 2005 Subject: WWDC DVD In-Reply-To: <65051.4.2.170.194.1067961892.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: "Timothy Reaves" wrote: > They realize giving away the development tools is a good thing, I'd think > they'd want people to see their presentations as well. Are you new to the Apple world? :) d*g From jer at mia.net Tue Nov 4 09:29:28 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: TB2 on OSX killing server In-Reply-To: <19F7BD4A-0EE2-11D8-B114-000A9586BA18@mac.com> References: <77CBF8BC-0E7C-11D8-93B0-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <19F7BD4A-0EE2-11D8-B114-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: <8CD783E8-0EE5-11D8-AB15-000393907950@mia.net> I have a OSX server running Apache, PHP/MySQL, etc.. and eShox. I noticed yesterday that eShox was not functioning, as it could not write to disk. Turns out TB2 had taken over the box. Has anyone noticed any problems with TB2 on OSX? This is the first I have seen of this problem. /Applications/Timbuktu Pro/Timbuktu Pro.app/Contents/SharedSupport/StatusItem.app/Contents/MacOS/StatusItem -psn_0_393217 This was using approximately 1.07GB of memory. OSX 10.2.8 TB2 6.0.2 While TB2 was using 1.07GB of memory, there is only 256MB on the box, so needless to say TB2 was swapping to disk and had eaten the entire partition. Any ideas? Thanx.. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From andyring at inebraska.com Tue Nov 4 09:54:59 2003 From: andyring at inebraska.com (Andy Ringsmuth) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Recursively unlock files Message-ID: <18BE3A14-0EEC-11D8-BF91-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> What is the command to lock or unlock files via the Terminal? I'm cleaning out files from years ago at work, and the occasional file here and there is locked, meaning I can't delete it (it's on a network disk, so seemingly holding down option when deleting folders doesn't override the locked file). Is there a way I can set all files inside a certain folder to be unlocked? Something like this: # unlock -R folder_to_delete/ Is there a way to do this? Otherwise I need to dig through hundreds of files to drill down and find the occasional one here or there that is locked. I realize there may be other ways of doing this, but I'd really like a solution that can be done as indicated above, if possible. -Andy From n9yty at n9yty.com Tue Nov 4 09:58:53 2003 From: n9yty at n9yty.com (Steven Palm) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <901CB776-0EEC-11D8-978D-000A95913626@n9yty.com> On Nov 3, 2003, at 11:23 PM, Roger Howard wrote: > How about you task your programmer with writing a plugin, apparently > it's possible. Then you can donate it to Apple and hope they spend the > five minutes integrating the thing... surely they have a janitor to > spare. Or if they don't want it, then you'll still have a plugin you > can use. Just a note that I finally released my plugin that does just this... And a few other minor things. Search VersionTracker for MailEnhancer, or use the direct page: http://home.insightbb.com/~n9yty1/MailEnhancer/ I'm giving this away for free, so no whining about it. ;-) -. ----. -.-- - -.-- Steve Palm - n9yty@n9yty.com -. ----. -.-- - -.-- From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 4 10:06:09 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Another reason Adobe Reader 6 on Mac OS X Sucks In-Reply-To: <1A14217C-0E8D-11D8-A825-000393C43C60@robburns.com> References: <3FC96950-0786-11D8-B0CA-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> <1A14217C-0E8D-11D8-A825-000393C43C60@robburns.com> Message-ID: at 20031104, 00:06 -0600, they whom i call Rob Burns wrote: >It doesn't work in Acrobat Pro either. you're right that the specific Save As PDF feature in the Print dialog is disabled in Acrobat Pro, but the functionality exists -- unless a form is secured by its author, simply saving a form saves the data one has filled in.. in Jaguar (Panther?), note that Preview won't display such form data.. if you want to save a form with data, non-editable (the feature missing from Reader), and with the data visible in Preview, just print the form to the PDF virtual printer that comes with Acrobat Pro (which you can do with Reader too, but of course you have to have Acrobat Pro) -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 4 10:08:00 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: <20031104072913.GD3501@Dark-Age.local> References: <36DCAC70-0AFE-11D8-8092-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> <41ECE336-0DDD-11D8-8354-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <20031104072913.GD3501@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: at 20031104, 01:29 -0600, they whom i call Eugene Lee wrote: >On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:13:27AM -0700, steve harley wrote: >: at the very least, if we assume that Apple's new design is >: good, we have the fact that Proteron implemented a good >: design first.. > >Since other app switchers (including Windoze and especially DESQview) >implemented similar visual paradigms some time ago, it is not a fact >that Proteron was first. i only see black outlining in Windows (dunno DESQView), but i suppose white is obvious in Mac OS X, used so widely for showing selection elsewhere in the UI ... my point above was not about originality, it was about good design.. i think it's pretty remarkable that Apple seems to have conceded its original app-switching UI was not as good, and it happens that Proteron led the way -- specifically on Mac OS X (as i noted a few msgs back) -- with this design.. as OS refinement continues, i think it's interesting to note when third parties do this kind of groundwork (a long Mac tradition), even if they pick up on features from other platforms.. it indicates a healthy development community, and bodes well for future improvements i haven't yet seen a rationalization that Apple was *always* going to do this kind of app-swticher, that they just finally got it implemented, and that the Dock behavior was just a placeholder -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 4 10:08:45 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Mail problem ...was Re: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: <9C47B9FE-0DDD-11D8-A11E-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> References: <6C31377E-0DDB-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <9C47B9FE-0DDD-11D8-A11E-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: at 20031103, 10:10 +0100, they whom i call mark wrote: >I haven't really looked into whether this is broken in Mail or not, >but from what you say... as i said, a broken but bracketed URL works fine in Mail, at least Jaguar Mail.. i sent the one in question to my Mail account and tested it.. if Matt's having a problem with it, maybe Panther broke this? >Are there really any mainstream clients that hard-wrap and don't >provide an option not to ? I don't know of any. i think whatever client sent the URL in question might just have a bad implementation of format=flowed, which specifically does insert a hard-wrap between words somewhere before position 80, but does it in such a way they can be unwrapped.. what the client may not be doing is foregoing hard-wrap of "single words" longer than 78 characters, which the RFC specifically proscribes -- steve harley From lomion at mac.com Tue Nov 4 10:17:07 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Recursively unlock files In-Reply-To: <18BE3A14-0EEC-11D8-BF91-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> References: <18BE3A14-0EEC-11D8-BF91-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> Message-ID: On Nov 4, 2003, at 12:26 PM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > What is the command to lock or unlock files via the Terminal? I'm > cleaning out files from years ago at work, and the occasional file > here and there is locked, meaning I can't delete it (it's on a network > disk, so seemingly holding down option when deleting folders doesn't > override the locked file). > > Is there a way I can set all files inside a certain folder to be > unlocked? Something like this: > > # unlock -R folder_to_delete/ > > > Is there a way to do this? Otherwise I need to dig through hundreds > of files to drill down and find the occasional one here or there that > is locked. > > I realize there may be other ways of doing this, but I'd really like a > solution that can be done as indicated above, if possible. > I'm not sure I understand what you mean by locked exactly? How did you lock them to begin with? --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031104/ad2dc01a/smime.bin From pfterry at netopia.com Tue Nov 4 10:27:47 2003 From: pfterry at netopia.com (Fred Terry) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: TB2 on OSX killing server In-Reply-To: <8CD783E8-0EE5-11D8-AB15-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: Jeremy, You really should be running 6.0.3 for 10.2 compatibility. You can get the update from http://www.netopia.com/en-us/support/technotes/software/tb2mac/tb2macupgrade .html. If you have any questions or you continue to experience problems, feel free to contact me off-list. pf --- Sr. QA Engineer Netopia On 11/4/03 10:40 AM, "Jeremy Kinsey" wrote: > I have a OSX server running Apache, PHP/MySQL, etc.. and eShox. I > noticed yesterday that eShox was not functioning, as it could not write > to disk. Turns out TB2 had taken over the box. Has anyone noticed any > problems with TB2 on OSX? This is the first I have seen of this > problem. > > > /Applications/Timbuktu Pro/Timbuktu > Pro.app/Contents/SharedSupport/StatusItem.app/Contents/MacOS/StatusItem > -psn_0_393217 > > This was using approximately 1.07GB of memory. > > OSX 10.2.8 > TB2 6.0.2 > > While TB2 was using 1.07GB of memory, there is only 256MB on the box, > so needless to say TB2 was swapping to disk and had eaten the entire > partition. > > Any ideas? > > Thanx.. From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Nov 4 10:39:14 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: .NET a Lock-In To Windows, Perhaps Not... In-Reply-To: References: <20031103014108.QRJQ1849.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> <9DAE7FFA-0E29-11D8-BB38-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: >> ported is the runtime. The interesting stuff, like data access, >> WinForms, etc. are not part of the open specification and there are >> no indications they will ever be ported outside of Windows. > Actually, that's just what Mono is doing > (http://go-mono.org/asp-net.html). But of course MS makes it hard and > the Mono people have to reverse engineer it. So, like Wine it will > always be a moving target. No chance that the DOJ could be told about this, is there? I read somewhere that some AGs or some other group is getting concerned about MS apparently not doing what little they *were* required to do by that settlement. Jim From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Nov 4 10:40:45 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Next week's BANG meeting at ORA conf. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> All attendees of the Mac OS X Conference are welcome and encouraged >> to attend. > Will there be free beer? "There will be Free beer - but that beer will be Free as in Speech, not Free as in Beer.." ;-)) Will it be webcast? Jim From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Nov 4 10:46:54 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Different mail servers for different PPP/VPN connections Message-ID: <22BB55EC-0EF5-11D8-8F10-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Is it possible to write an Applescript which runs when the PPP or VPN connects to have Mail use different SMTP servers for each? Jim From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Tue Nov 4 12:10:14 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Linus on the G5 Message-ID: From an interview with Linus Torvalds at http://www.oetrends.com/news.php?action=view_record&idnum=277 "In the 64-bit space, everybody else is completely irrelevant except for Opteron and Power. Nothing else matters. That's just the way it is. I actually find Power to be very interesting now that they've made the 9070. And you can actually buy them in reasonable machines. And you can buy a Macintosh G5 and get a real 64-bit CPU. And I think that may actually be enough, too. There is enough of a user base for normal people that I suspect a lot of Linux developers would love to have one of those." This quote would make a nice Apple ad on the major Linux sites. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 848 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031104/6b73859a/attachment.bin From mathias.ml at free.fr Tue Nov 4 12:19:09 2003 From: mathias.ml at free.fr (Mathias Terreaux) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Recursively unlock files In-Reply-To: <18BE3A14-0EEC-11D8-BF91-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> Message-ID: <1g3x19b.pccg8c1fn9z3wM%mathias.ml@free.fr> Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > What is the command to lock or unlock files via the Terminal? I'm > cleaning out files from years ago at work, and the occasional file here > and there is locked, meaning I can't delete it (it's on a network disk, > so seemingly holding down option when deleting folders doesn't override > the locked file). > > Is there a way I can set all files inside a certain folder to be > unlocked? Something like this: > > # unlock -R folder_to_delete/ > > > Is there a way to do this? Otherwise I need to dig through hundreds of > files to drill down and find the occasional one here or there that is > locked. > > I realize there may be other ways of doing this, but I'd really like a > solution that can be done as indicated above, if possible. hello, you can write a sh script to do this : save it as "unlock", put it in your path, et voila. (you need developper tools) #!/bin/sh if test $# == 1 then src=$1 else exit fi find "$src" -type f | while read fic do state=`/Developer/Tools/GetFileInfo -aL "$fic" 2>/dev/null` if test $state && test $state = 1 then echo unlock "$fic" SetFile -a l "$fic" fi done Mathias From ploiku at earthlink.net Tue Nov 4 13:10:01 2003 From: ploiku at earthlink.net (Hsu) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Recursively unlock files In-Reply-To: <1g3x19b.pccg8c1fn9z3wM%mathias.ml@free.fr> References: <1g3x19b.pccg8c1fn9z3wM%mathias.ml@free.fr> Message-ID: Why not use chflags, which directly supports -R ? Karl On Nov 4, 2003, at 11:14 AM, Mathias Terreaux wrote: > Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > >> What is the command to lock or unlock files via the Terminal? I'm >> cleaning out files from years ago at work, and the occasional file >> here >> and there is locked, meaning I can't delete it (it's on a network >> disk, >> so seemingly holding down option when deleting folders doesn't >> override >> the locked file). >> >> Is there a way I can set all files inside a certain folder to be >> unlocked? Something like this: >> >> # unlock -R folder_to_delete/ >> >> >> Is there a way to do this? Otherwise I need to dig through hundreds >> of >> files to drill down and find the occasional one here or there that is >> locked. >> >> I realize there may be other ways of doing this, but I'd really like a >> solution that can be done as indicated above, if possible. > > hello, > > you can write a sh script to do this : > save it as "unlock", put it in your path, et voila. > (you need developper tools) > > > #!/bin/sh > if test $# == 1 > then > src=$1 > else > exit > fi > > find "$src" -type f | while read fic > do > state=`/Developer/Tools/GetFileInfo -aL "$fic" 2>/dev/null` > if test $state && test $state = 1 > then > echo unlock "$fic" > SetFile -a l "$fic" > fi > done > > > > Mathias > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > -- Look at the turgor pressure on that thing! Homepage: http://homepage.mac.com/khsu/index.html From ploiku at earthlink.net Tue Nov 4 13:20:27 2003 From: ploiku at earthlink.net (Hsu) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Mail.app white lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In the rules, you can set "sender is(n't) in my addressbook" and "sender is(n't) in group XX" as conditions... Karl On Nov 4, 2003, at 4:53 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > In Eudora I use lists of friends' and vendors' email addresses, and > partial addresses, as white lists in my filter. Is there any way to do > that in Mail.app yet, or do I have to make an "Address Book.app" > business card or a separate filter rule for each one? > > > -- Bill Ehrich > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > -- Neurosis is red Melancholia is blue I'm schizophrenic What are you? Homepage: http://homepage.mac.com/khsu/index.html From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Nov 4 13:35:40 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <00B74D4D-0C90-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> References: <70EA0F52-0A94-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <087DA636-0AF6-11D8-96BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> <7F29829A-0AFE-11D8-B27E-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> <9A050B0E-0B15-11D8-BE6A-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <05ECCC02-0B2A-11D8-94AE-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <00B74D4D-0C90-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> Message-ID: > because they can afford to spend less on R&D and they cut their > margins lower than the competition can. In both cases, they ship > products that almost work like they should, because the engineering > team's number one goal was not to make the product a quality product, > but to check off boxes from a marketing bullet list[1]. I was having a > conversation last night with a friend who does Windows programming[2] > and he agreed with this assessment completely. It makes me sad to > thing about it. (warning, this is long.. The main points are in first 3 paragraphs though) I wouldn't quite be that harsh, but that's probably right. But Microsoft *does* have a rather large R&D effort in some fronts - it just never seems to make it into their products (yet..) One example is Natural Language Processing. Of course, Apple probably also has at least a few engineers working on NLP - I heard that they've got speech recognition dictation working in the lab, but that it's not ready for "prime time". Another interesting tidbit about MS I heard yesterday is that they are paying the PLT Scheme group to make a .NET port of PLT Scheme. I also heard that the PLT group gets to keep all rights to the code (theoretically, at least). My fear with bunches and bunches of R&D that goes on is that as times, CEOs, boards of directors, and priorities change, things will get buried. And because R&D is usually trade secrets, not patents (for which disclosure is at least a theoretical requirement), it will potentially never see the light of day. Ever. Examples: 1. Blender3D. almost - just saved because of $100,000 and a BOD that saw reason. 2. BeOS. Will probably never be a desktop OS again now that Palm has it, even though it might possibly have been a good competitor to MS. 3. QD3D. Well, not really, because Quesa has recreated it. But it might have been much easier if Apple had just released it. And there are still parts that aren't done - like meshes, the controller interface, and the Quesa group has decided not to include any of the *publicly* released source code, unless they have a written agreement with Apple that they can. Anybody know who we'd talk to to get that? 4. Gobs of Newton technology. I'm not talking about Inkwell. I'm talking about the frames architecture, the data soup architecture, the documentation for interfacing with the internal C++ operating system (we have the symbol names and the ARM assembly code, but not any of the parameter names, structure definitions [for Newton QuickDraw, Inker data structures, etc], or other things that would make it easier to write low level things like the ATA driver and MP3 codec.. If Apple had *wanted* to use the ideas behind the frames or data soup architecture, you'd think they would have by now. If anyone *else* wanted to seriously do this, and had a team of 100 engineers they could devote to it (like MS would if they cared), they'd just recreate something 99% similar in a year from scratch. Neither has happened. So releasing stuff, especially such innocuous stuff as headers and structure information, would not really hurt Apple in terms of competitiveness. The only people who really lose are those of us who still use the Newton - and want to do really neat stuff with it that we just can't without inside headers (or a LOT of reverse-engineering, and we all have other things to do) - things like: - Make the stipped-down Java engine (NewtWaba) work with QuickDraw (I don't have the definitions for the structures used by the text drawing routines, and don't have the time to do the tedious reverse-engineering). Also, there's a mutex used around the QuickDraw calls (since QD is not thread-safe, and NOS is preemptive), that are confusing - used in some places (the routine PoofEffect for one), but not in others (TView:Draw - unless it's set up in some previous call) - Create more gesture recognizers - the Newton only has about 5 gestures (as opposed to Inkwell, which has about 20 it looks like from the screen shots). There is a class TGestureRecognizer, but alas, no one knows how to use it. - Create new view types. Without the headers for TView, and information about how to register these views with the NewtonScript interpreter, this would be a real b$#%@. - Create new kinds of text/shape recognizers. Without headers for TRecognizer, TShapeRecognizer, TRecognitionManager, TRecognizerList, and information on how to register the classes (probably contained in the headers for TRecognitionManager), this is probably very hard. - Interface directly with the Inker and tablet interface, and write external screen drivers. Relevant headers: TInker, TTablet, TResistiveTablet, TScreenDriver, TMainScreenDriver. We can get the pen position now from C++, but there's a delay before readings start to come in. It might be rather easy to use SetTabletPolling to do this, but there might be difficulties.. There are probably a bunch of other things that would be useful for us to know how to do dealing with such classes as TArbiter, TClickRecognizer, TNewtWorld, TAppWorld, TRulebook, TNotebook - I just haven't waded around in the 150MB of disassembly that much. 5. QDGX. True, some of the algorithms might be of strategic importance to Apple. And quite a few of them are probably found in Quartz in some form. But I bet there are others that aren't. If they aren't put in at some point, is the technological potential of that particular part of QDGX just going to go to the bit-bucket in the sky? At least until someone else recreates it at more expense than if they had just been able to use what Apple had abandoned (under an no-compete agreement). 6. AIAT (Apple Information Access Technology) - the basis of OS9 sherlock, that never made it into OSX, and apparently is now in that big bit-bucket in the sky. OSX already has it's own search technology of some kind (maybe a private interface - it shouldn't be but that will probably change around 10.4 or 10.5). There's Lucene for Java and whatever other languages it's ported too, so it's not clear if AIAT would be of use to *anyone* anymore (other than computer science students studying search architectures) 7. ARTA (Apple Real-time Architecture) - The basis of the speech recognition code on the DSP in the 660AV and 840AV. Again, it's not clear whether this is relevant anymore, but it might be. 8. To get away from Apple, the original code for the Symbolics LISP machines (and the design for the LISP chips themselves). I've been told that the code they had for those machines was in some ways light-years ahead of anything today, and the code probably hadn't changed much (LISP hasn't..). Although it might be useful to rewrite them to use modern lexical-scoping in Scheme or in Common LISP. And God knows what else is in Apple's "vault" that they have no interest or intention of using.. Or Xerox Park for that matter (I head something about them having prototype 3D interfaces - or was that Symbolics?). Jim > [1] Note that other tech companies have similar lists, and so does > Linux, but they're not first priority. > [2] That is to say, he programs for Windows; he does not program > Windows itself. > > On Oct 30, 2003, at 3:22 PM, Michael Stearne wrote: > >> >> On Oct 30, 2003, at 5:40 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> >>> On Oct 30, 2003, at 12:14 PM, j o a r wrote: >>> >>>> There should be a web page collecting all these pieces of UI theft, >>>> with screenshots of when a particular thing first appeared on the >>>> Mac, and on Windows. >>> >>> The problem is it would read like a guided tour of every aspect of >>> Windows. >>> >>> And don't think it stops at the Mac. No idea what Windows 95 would >>> have looked like if NeXT didn't exist. How long would it have taken >>> to think up Visual Basic if Interface Builder wasn't invented first? >>> >>> Microsoft isn't really a technology company. >>> >> >> Haha, >> >> Is Dell? >> >> Michael >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >> >> > > Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac > dot com> > "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure > out what just happened." From dan at tangledhelix.com Tue Nov 4 13:46:23 2003 From: dan at tangledhelix.com (Dan Lowe) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Junk Mail not being foldered? In-Reply-To: <444377CA-0C62-11D8-B1DF-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> References: <444377CA-0C62-11D8-B1DF-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> Message-ID: <41E766F8-0EF7-11D8-AD50-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> Paul Marcos was kind enough to look at this in more detail, and it looks like this is a bug in Panther Mail (one which didn't exist in Jaguar). A workaround is to add a rule (any rule) and Junk Mail starts getting foldered again. The problem was, I had no rules defined at all, not even the default one for Apple News emails. Any old useless rule will work. I did something like... if From: contains afsasdfasdfasdf then change background color to red. Worked like a charm. -dan On Nov 1, 2003, at 6:55 AM, Dan Lowe wrote: > Ever since I moved to Panther, my Junk Mail is not being foldered. I > have in Junk Mail prefs: > > Enable Junk Mail filtering > When Junk Mail arrives: > Move it to the Junk mailbox > Following types are excepted: > All three are checked > Trust Junk mail headers is also checked. > > However I'm seeing mail from random addresses marked as Junk and then > not moved. The sender is not in my address book or my recipients > list, nor is my full name used. > > I copied my mail prefs plist file and my ~/Library/Mail/ folder over > from my previous (Jaguar) system, where Mail behaved as expected > (anything marked Junk was automatically foldered). > > I tried toggling the setting in Panther to disable filtering, then > turn it back on, hoping it would reset something but it's still > misbehaving. > > Has anyone else run into this? I'm using IMAP for inbox, but > everything else (sent, junk, trash, etc) are local folders. > > -- > Be humble, for you are made of dung. > Be noble, for you are made of stars. > -Serbian proverb > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From mathias.ml at free.fr Tue Nov 4 13:48:50 2003 From: mathias.ml at free.fr (Mathias Terreaux) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Recursively unlock files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1g3x7bk.1ce0kmdzkvl2jM%mathias.ml@free.fr> Hsu wrote: > Why not use chflags, which directly supports -R ? oh, just because I didn't knew this :-))) Mathias From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 4 14:23:25 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: CM related crashes Message-ID: at 20031030, 16:43 +0100, they whom i call mark wrote: >Anyone seeing app crashes when using contextual menus ? I'm getting >occasional crashes in Safari, Mail, Address Book and iCal when doing >CM operations. i saw a note in yesterday's MacInTouch Panther report that reinstalling Stuffit Expander fixed CM problems for a couple of people.. no idea why.. worth a try -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 4 14:50:31 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Profont and Mail.app In-Reply-To: <5A4947F6-0E4A-11D8-AF1A-000A957054BE@apple.com> References: <5A4947F6-0E4A-11D8-AF1A-000A957054BE@apple.com> Message-ID: at 20031103, 14:09 -0800, they whom i call Paul Marcos wrote: >Mail asks Cocoa for the list of fixed width fonts and this list is >not always complete. Unfortunately I don't know the logic behind >how Cocoa determines this. > >I've filed a bug for this. assuming you filed the bug against Cocoa, and not against Mail, i have a suggestion -- why not let the user decide what font to use for plain text messages, whether it's fixed width or not? -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 4 14:56:23 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: <901CB776-0EEC-11D8-978D-000A95913626@n9yty.com> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <901CB776-0EEC-11D8-978D-000A95913626@n9yty.com> Message-ID: at 20031104, 11:30 -0600, they whom i call Steven Palm wrote: > http://home.insightbb.com/~n9yty1/MailEnhancer/ > > I'm giving this away for free, so no whining about it. ;-) thanks for a well sorted enhancement.. the "show activity..." feature even works when AppleScript issues "check for new mail" (which i do with my script that reports the "new" count for each mailbox) this is another example of how a good plug-in architecture can relieve the core dev team from pressure to implement specific features.. i'd say one month's work on comprehensive plug-in support would be far better spent than "5 minutes" on this specific feature (though i'm sure Steven spent a lot more than 5 minutes) -- steve harley From mark at imap-partners.net Tue Nov 4 15:10:47 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4 Nov 2003, at 20:48, steve harley wrote: > at 20031030, 16:43 +0100, they whom i call mark wrote: >> Anyone seeing app crashes when using contextual menus ? I'm getting >> occasional crashes in Safari, Mail, Address Book and iCal when doing >> CM operations. > > i saw a note in yesterday's MacInTouch Panther report that > reinstalling Stuffit Expander fixed CM problems for a couple > of people.. no idea why.. worth a try Interesting. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Aladdin were behind this and it would also explain why my attempt to isolate a culprit didn't produce any results. I only looked at the CMs in /Library/Contextual Menu Items and ~/Library/Contextual Menu Items. I forgot about bloody Stuffit. Off to try it. mark. > > -- > steve harley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2373 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031104/b769eb1b/smime.bin From mark at imap-partners.net Wed Nov 5 01:13:32 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Profont and Mail.app In-Reply-To: References: <5A4947F6-0E4A-11D8-AF1A-000A957054BE@apple.com> Message-ID: <21071051-0F1B-11D8-B49E-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> On 4 Nov 2003, at 21:06, steve harley wrote: > at 20031103, 14:09 -0800, they whom i call Paul Marcos wrote: >> Mail asks Cocoa for the list of fixed width fonts and this list is >> not always complete. Unfortunately I don't know the logic behind how >> Cocoa determines this. >> >> I've filed a bug for this. > > assuming you filed the bug against Cocoa, and not against > Mail, i have a suggestion -- why not let the user decide > what font to use for plain text messages, whether it's fixed > width or not? I'll second that mark. From bahi at macnet.co.uk Wed Nov 5 01:34:43 2003 From: bahi at macnet.co.uk (Bahi) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Junk Mail not being foldered? In-Reply-To: <41E766F8-0EF7-11D8-AD50-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> References: <444377CA-0C62-11D8-B1DF-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> <41E766F8-0EF7-11D8-AD50-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> Message-ID: At 13:46 -0500 4/11/03, Dan Lowe wrote: >Paul Marcos was kind enough to look at this in more detail, and it >looks like this is a bug in Panther Mail (one which didn't exist in >Jaguar). A workaround is to add a rule (any rule) and Junk Mail >starts getting foldered again. The problem was, I had no rules >defined at all, not even the default one for Apple News emails. I was wondering why this had stopped working for me and then started again. I previously had a rule that played a sound when junk mail was found and filed - adding it back to Panther Mail must have fixed the problem. The junk mail filtering in Panther is far, far more accurate that it was in Jaguar - even after the several resets I used to try to get the junk mail moving correctly to its own folder :) From mark at imap-partners.net Wed Nov 5 01:41:27 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4 Nov 2003, at 20:48, steve harley wrote: > at 20031030, 16:43 +0100, they whom i call mark wrote: >> Anyone seeing app crashes when using contextual menus ? I'm getting >> occasional crashes in Safari, Mail, Address Book and iCal when doing >> CM operations. > > i saw a note in yesterday's MacInTouch Panther report that > reinstalling Stuffit Expander fixed CM problems for a couple > of people.. no idea why.. worth a try Interesting. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Aladdin were behind this and it would also explain why my attempt to isolate a culprit didn't produce any results. I only looked at the CMs in /Library/Contextual Menu Items and ~/Library/Contextual Menu Items. I forgot about bloody Stuffit. Off to try it. mark. > > -- > steve harley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2373 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031105/b769eb1b/smime.bin From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Wed Nov 5 01:47:01 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <70EA0F52-0A94-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <087DA636-0AF6-11D8-96BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> <7F29829A-0AFE-11D8-B27E-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> <9A050B0E-0B15-11D8-BE6A-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <05ECCC02-0B2A-11D8-94AE-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <00B74D4D-0C90-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031104221625.GK3501@Dark-Age.local> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 01:29:15PM -0500, Jim Witte wrote: : : I wouldn't quite be that harsh, but that's probably right. But : Microsoft *does* have a rather large R&D effort in some fronts - it : just never seems to make it into their products (yet..) One example is : Natural Language Processing. Of course, Apple probably also has at : least a few engineers working on NLP - I heard that they've got speech : recognition dictation working in the lab, but that it's not ready for : "prime time". One rumor of the old $150 million non-voting stock purchase was that Apple would stopped development in the speech recognition/synthesis. : Another interesting tidbit about MS I heard yesterday is that they : are paying the PLT Scheme group to make a .NET port of PLT Scheme. I : also heard that the PLT group gets to keep all rights to the code : (theoretically, at least). Well, that's how monopoly money works. : My fear with bunches and bunches of R&D that goes on is that as : times, CEOs, boards of directors, and priorities change, things will : get buried. [...] : 1. Blender3D. : 2. BeOS. : 3. QD3D. : 4. Gobs of Newton technology. You know, Apple like many technology companies has *lots* of goodies at their disposal. But Apple is not a monopoly and doesn't have gobs of monopoly money to burn just to get market share (TabletPC? PocketPC? Xbox? The Portable Media Center?). Apple has to pick and choose its battles, and they do not possess the resources to invest in technologies that do not lead to a wildly successful (read: profitable) product. : If Apple had *wanted* to use the ideas behind the frames or data soup : architecture, you'd think they would have by now. Apple already gave into stubborn old Mac developers by creating Carbon. Apple took another risk and made Java a first-class API. Neither have brought in hordes of developers like we all want to see. But right now, I'm less interested in Newton technologies than I am seeing the latest version of Street Atlas USA 2004 for the Mac (does not exist). -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 5 02:02:54 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: WWDC DVD In-Reply-To: <65051.4.2.170.194.1067961892.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> References: <382B5796-0E64-11D8-8663-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com> <9E654EB4-0E91-11D8-A64F-000A95A6C778@freetimesw.com> <65051.4.2.170.194.1067961892.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: On Nov 4, 2003, at 8:04 AM, Timothy Reaves wrote: > I did not know this. I wonder why? I realize Apple wants people > to > attend, but some of us cannot due to time constraints, or monitary > constraints. They realize giving away the development tools is a > good thing, I'd think they'd want people to see their presentations > as well. The NDA may be one factor. I would think it gets very difficult to enforce if you allow developers to loan them to other people. I assume you can loan them to other people within your organization, but I don't know for sure. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From martin_greenwood at pandora-int.com Wed Nov 5 02:08:09 2003 From: martin_greenwood at pandora-int.com (Martin Greenwood) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Keyboard layout In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33BFFE08-0F76-11D8-B7A1-000A95A55CB2@pandora-int.com> I've searched around, but I can't find the answer. One of my Mac's has a keyboard where the " is above 2 and the @ is over near the CR above the '. There are other differences...but it is still an English keyboard with the pound and dollar sign, like my other Apple keyboards. So International settings don't help. How do I set different key layouts? Thanks, Martin From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Wed Nov 5 02:23:29 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031104221625.GK3501@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: "Eugene Lee" wrote: > Apple already gave into stubborn old Mac developers by creating Carbon. > Apple took another risk and made Java a first-class API. Neither have > brought in hordes of developers like we all want to see. And the alternative, Rhapsody, would have? Give it up. d*g From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Wed Nov 5 02:26:59 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Keyboard layout In-Reply-To: <33BFFE08-0F76-11D8-B7A1-000A95A55CB2@pandora-int.com> Message-ID: "Martin Greenwood" wrote: > How do I set different key layouts? d*g From alexfuller at mac.com Wed Nov 5 02:29:18 2003 From: alexfuller at mac.com (Alex Fuller) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <8403DF41-0F78-11D8-897E-000393DB5348@mac.com> On 3 Nov 2003, at 9:08 am, Matt wrote: > > defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool false; killall > Dock > > I think I'll keep this... Interesting - could very plausibly be the first sign of a virtual desktop function as AppleInsider claims... although the desktop itself probably wouldn't change, just the window collection. Then again it could also go the same way as minimize-in-place... Or perhaps it'll do a Classic window-buffering on us and resurface in a couple of years... Alex From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 5 02:38:40 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <551819F8-0F7B-11D8-9FE0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 5 Nov 2003, at 10:09, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Eugene Lee" wrote: > >> Apple already gave into stubborn old Mac developers by creating >> Carbon. >> Apple took another risk and made Java a first-class API. Neither have >> brought in hordes of developers like we all want to see. > > And the alternative, Rhapsody, would have? Give it up. Hi Dan, I think you missed the point. We still have Rhapsody. We knew it was going to be a slow burn. I do think that Apple expected Java to be more of an attraction for developers but then who knew (other than anyone who has access to the Internet).... M -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From tschnitzer at mac.com Wed Nov 5 03:56:31 2003 From: tschnitzer at mac.com (Thomas Schnitzer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Something I don't get about the iTMS Message-ID: <8DBB0E85-0F85-11D8-97FA-000393AE3644@mac.com> Ever since the iTunes Music Store is online I'm wondering, why the music industry (I think it's the responsibility of the music industry and not Apples) cripples it with offerings like this: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum? playlistId=2656536 http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum? playlistId=1317313 All you can buy from these albums are the bonus tracks. Here is an other example: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum? playlistId=702325 Where's song Nr. 7? Imo, it's ok that some songs on some albums can only be purchased with the album as a whole. But that's not an option in the above examples! If I want to buy these CDs I have to order them from amazon. What's the reasoning behind this? Imo, that's a major shortcoming of the music store (and again, I don't think that it's Apples fault). Thomas From charlesd at newsguy.com Wed Nov 5 05:44:53 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: wanna have some fun with root under Panther? Message-ID: Try this: 1 go to NetInfo Manager. Select 'Security'. Select 'Enable Root User'. 2 log into root. 3 do something, anything. 4 log out of root. 5 go back to NetInfo Manager. Disable root user. 6 quit NetInfo Manager. 7 go back to NetInfo Manager. Try to enable root user... hmmm. That doesn't seem to be working, now does it? Hmmm... Hey, it used to work that way under Jag. Hmm. log into a Jag volume. Launch NetInfo Manager. Play with enable/disable root for a while. Yep. NIM used to say that it started/stopped root... 8 set your Panther login window to require you to type in usernames and passwords, rather than to supply a list of users and you select one and type in the password. 9 either by starting up or by using Fast User Switching, get the login window active. Type in user 'root' and your root password. Hey! Root lives! 10 switch back to your normal user. Check NetInfo Manager. Hmm... NIM says that root is _not_ live. Except that not only is root live, but you're logged into it right now if you used FUS! 11 shut down and restart on the Panther #1 CD and give root a really, really, REALLY good password, 'cause it looks like it's live no matter what you do and no matter what NetInfo Manager says. I kinda wonder two things: a: how long has it been that NetInfo Manager says that root is disabled but in fact it's perfectly enabled b: how do you disable root under Panther? Preferably without command line tricks. And without killing your machine. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From markm at tyrell.com Wed Nov 5 13:49:20 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Next week's BANG meeting at ORA conf. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 1:29 PM -0500 11/4/03, Jim Witte wrote: >>>All attendees of the Mac OS X Conference are welcome and >>>encouraged to attend. >>Will there be free beer? > > "There will be Free beer - but that beer will be Free as in >Speech, not Free as in Beer.." ;-)) Perhaps it's "free" as in the beer is free but you have to give any derived work from the beer back to the community!? :/ mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From das at doit.wisc.edu Wed Nov 5 13:51:10 2003 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: wanna have some fun with root under Panther? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3CCDF024-0FBC-11D8-A0EF-000A958F1162@doit.wisc.edu> Actually, this isn't entirely right. On Nov 5, 2003, at 7:29 AM, Charles Dyer wrote: > 11 shut down and restart on the Panther #1 CD and give root a really, > really, REALLY good password, 'cause it looks like it's live no matter > what you do and no matter what NetInfo Manager says. Panther has switched to using ShadowHash passwords by default for new users (the equivalent of /etc/shadow on other systems). In fact, now might be a good time for an aside: If you have upgraded a previous 10.x installation to 10.3, your existing user accounts will still be using their crypt passwords and 'basic' authentication, which can be exposed to users on the system by various means (nidump passwd .). To get the accounts to use 'ShadowHash' authentication, NOT expose their encrypted passwords, and enable use of passwords longer than 8 characters, simply reset the password using the Accounts pane of System Preferences, or the 'passwd' command. That's it. That said, there are various ways to get root enabled with a ShadowHash password on Panther, or change it into using a ShadowHash password. BUT, if you do this, NetInfo Manager no longer recognizes root as being 'enabled', as far as it's concerned, therefore not allowing you to 'disable' it - even though the root account is indeed enabled. NetInfo Manager's enable/disable root functionality only works if root has a crypt password, or no password (*). > I kinda wonder two things: > > a: how long has it been that NetInfo Manager says that root is > disabled but in fact it's perfectly enabled Only since Panther, because this is the first time root would easily have been able to have a password type other than crypt. > b: how do you disable root under Panther? Preferably without command > line tricks. And without killing your machine. Set the passwd field for root in NetInfo Manager to '*'. Then NetInfo Manager sees root disabled (as it should) and again lets you enable and disable it the "NetInfo Manager way". But as soon as you do something like reset root's password outside of NetInfo Manager, and possibly other things, root will get a ShadowHash password, which will no longer be able to be handled by NetInfo Manager. Enabling and disabling the root user via the Security menu works fine in NetInfo Manager *as long as* root has a crypt password. I'm going to guess that you either changed root's password somehow between enabling and disabling it, or otherwise did something that caused root's password to get converted to ShadowHash - which would have resulted in appearing to not be able to 'enable' the root user via NetInfo Manager again, though the root account is indeed enabled and able to be used. Fast User Switching, List of Users, etc., didn't have anything to do with it. Yes, this should be handled in a predictable fashion by NetInfo Manager, etc., but it's not, so here's the info to deal with it. :-) - Dave From madamov at kc.gov.yu Wed Nov 5 13:53:48 2003 From: madamov at kc.gov.yu (Milan Adamov) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Keyboard layout In-Reply-To: <33BFFE08-0F76-11D8-B7A1-000A95A55CB2@pandora-int.com> References: <33BFFE08-0F76-11D8-B7A1-000A95A55CB2@pandora-int.com> Message-ID: >I've searched around, but I can't find the answer. One of my Mac's >has a keyboard where the " is above 2 and the @ is over near the CR >above the '. There are other differences...but it is still an >English keyboard with the pound and dollar sign, like my other Apple >keyboards. >So International settings don't help. >How do I set different key layouts? > Cocoa key layouts are XML files. Find one that is closes to what you need, edit it with BBEdit or TextEdit, save it and install it in one of locations: /Library/Keyboard Layouts/ ~/Library/Keyboard Layouts/ There is utility for building keyboard layouts, I haven't test it, you can find it at http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/20953 Milan From steve at watchfield.com Wed Nov 5 13:57:05 2003 From: steve at watchfield.com (Stephen Leach) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Recursively unlock files Message-ID: Hi, Looks like this works: chflags -R nouchg -- Steve From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 5 14:33:25 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Mail.app (panther) -- what happened to the various Text Encodings? A Japanese mail came through as garbage and I cannot change it Message-ID: Hi For some reason one of my wife's emails from her family in Japan came through and Mail.app just shows garbage. The content type header is identical to other mails that look fine. Anyway, on Jaguar when this happened I would just go change the text encoding to the various Japanese ones until it looked ok. Now on Panther I go to Text Encodings and it only shows the "Western" ones. What happened to all the others? How do I get them back? Thanks Chad From jeff at stikman.com Wed Nov 5 14:35:41 2003 From: jeff at stikman.com (Jeff Grossman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Panther Icon Placement References: <5A9E67CE-076D-11D8-A1AB-000A9566627E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hsu wrote: > Please please please file a bug on this (I know it's already been filed > by others) so that Apple knows many people are seeing it. > Where do I file a bug with Apple? Jeff From ehrich at mninter.net Wed Nov 5 14:45:39 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: scroll wheel acceleration Message-ID: Scroll wheel acceleration in Panther is a clever idea which doesn't work in practice because the wheel's sensor resolution is too coarse. I hope that someone will find a way to turn it off, and that Apple will make it optional (or just lose it) in OSX v10.4 ("Tabby"?). -- Bill Ehrich From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Wed Nov 5 14:48:56 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Junk Mail not being foldered? In-Reply-To: <6EF139EC-0C6A-11D8-B436-000393B421DA@kcore.de> References: <444377CA-0C62-11D8-B1DF-000A95A5456A@tangledhelix.com> <6EF139EC-0C6A-11D8-B436-000393B421DA@kcore.de> Message-ID: <505061D5-0F53-11D8-80CD-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> >> Has anyone else run into this? I'm using IMAP for inbox, but >> everything else (sent, junk, trash, etc) are local folders. I've had this happen. I've got the Junk Mail filtering turned on (automatic) and I also have a custom rule that will catch some things it doesn't seem to want to (at lest in Jaguar), that moves things to the Junk folder. But if something is *moved* into the Junk folder (by an explicit rule), does that mean that it is marked as junk and updated into the LSM data? It's confusing that there isn't a rule action "Mark message as Junk". Jim From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Wed Nov 5 14:49:30 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: WWDC DVD In-Reply-To: <65051.4.2.170.194.1067961892.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> References: <382B5796-0E64-11D8-8663-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com> <9E654EB4-0E91-11D8-A64F-000A95A6C778@freetimesw.com> <65051.4.2.170.194.1067961892.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: <76705EFB-0F4E-11D8-80CD-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> While it is true that everything at the WWDC (sometimes with the exception of the Keynote) is under NDA, a lot of that has to do with what's going to be in the next OS release. Of course, Panther *is* released now. As for the other stuff, will Apple just let any online member of the ADC who ponies up $1500 attend? As for me, I'm a student developer who very stupidly forgot to fill out the student scholarship form, and probably would have gotten in this year if I had. Anyway, as a student member of the ADC, I'm already under an NDA for some stuff - I'm not exactly sure what, I assume anything I download off of the ADC website as pre-release. Jim > I did not know this. I wonder why? I realize Apple wants people > to >>> Does anyone have a WWDC DVD they would be interested in loaning out? >> AFAIK they cannot do so because of legalities. From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Wed Nov 5 14:50:59 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Preferences: ByHost and not ByHost.. Message-ID: <974CA90E-0F54-11D8-80CD-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> In the Preferences folder, there is a ByHost folder for a bunch of files with names in the form of 'com.*.*' But there are also a bunch of 'com.*.*' files (even Apple ones) that are *not* in the ByHost folder. What gives, if anything? Is it that the ByHost folder is supposed to be preferences you can 'forget about' when backing up? If it is, then I would include a LOT of the com.apple.* files not in it, unless you've explicitly changed them. For instance, the HIToolbox or helpviewer plist files. I'm sure that a lot of people just chuck the whole Preferences folder onto the backup DVD without giving it a second thought, but it still makes me a bit leary restoring preference files that I don't really need to (too many years with OS 5-9 where preference files got corrupted every other day!), not to mention all the $#%@ web-cache files that are thrown in ~/Preferences. Of course, if I want to get this picky, I really should just start using Retrospect Express.. Jim From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Wed Nov 5 14:51:50 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:12 2005 Subject: Cmd-O not working in list/column view in Finder Message-ID: Hi, Has anyone else had problems where Cmd-O stops working in the Finder? I've had it stop working a lot, but not all of the time, for column and list views, but never with icon views. Once tonight it was working in one folder (in list view) but not in another. Then I went back and then forward again in that (working) window, and it stopped working. Jim From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Wed Nov 5 15:02:04 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <20031104050806.MOPP1811.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: > You can mix legacy C, C++ (Java, Pyhton, AppleScript, etc.) with > Cocoa, you do not have to do a full switch. Many established > cross-platform apps/games on Mac OS X have C++ cores wrapped by an > AppKit UI. Is there any effort out there to produce a set of Scheme bindings for Cocoa? I'm not sure what Cocoa's object system would turn into on Scheme, but I'm sure it could be done (as a professor of mine said today, "most things *can* be done in Scheme") Jim From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Wed Nov 5 15:04:43 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > totally brilliant move, is Apple's push for using open source software > as the base for development of new things for Mac OS X. They manage to > mix OSS and closed source Hrrrrmpph. I'm not exactly sure how this thread started, but after a talk I had today with a grad student in the CS department here at IUB about the email I sent to this list earlier about seemingly-abandoned technologies, and about Jobs' mindset in particular concerning IP, supporting older hardware (be it Newton *or* Mac), and user groups (he apparently doesn't like them because they support older Macs instead of pushing people to run out and get the newest greatest Dual-G5 as he put it), I wonder how much of Apple's push towards OSS is about the philosophy of it, how much is about the definite advantages (security for one), and how much of it is about cost (I'm sure Apple's low-level-OS team numbers has gone down since they moved to OSS Darwin - they still need quite a few engineers to manage the Darwin trunk and make sure everything fits together, but they might need fewer "code monkeys"). If it was *all* about philosophy (and "intangible goodwill which I believe they can count in the bottom line", as I put it to this grad student), they'd release the headers to the NewtonOS and other stuff that I mentioned. Jim From alexfuller at mac.com Wed Nov 5 15:13:08 2003 From: alexfuller at mac.com (Alex Fuller) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: scroll wheel acceleration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5 Nov 2003, at 4:27 pm, William Ehrich wrote: > Scroll wheel acceleration in Panther is a clever idea which doesn't > work in practice because the wheel's sensor resolution is too coarse. > > I hope that someone will find a way to turn it off, and that Apple > will make it optional (or just lose it) in OSX v10.4 ("Tabby"?). > ? Works very nicely for me - have you tried adjusting the slider in System Preferences -> Mouse -> Scrolling Speed? Alex From joar at joar.com Wed Nov 5 15:19:47 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Preferences: ByHost and not ByHost.. In-Reply-To: <974CA90E-0F54-11D8-80CD-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> References: <974CA90E-0F54-11D8-80CD-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: <29BB24E4-0FE4-11D8-BAC6-000393D4AB70@joar.com> My understanding of this is that per-host preferences are mostly interesting if you access your user account from several different machines - think an office or university LAN where you might log in to your account from a different computer every day. Some preferences, like monitor resolution, has to do with the local hardware and needs to be stored separately per machine - or in tech-speak "host". Hence per-host, or by-host, prefs. j o a r On 2003-11-05, at 06.54, Jim Witte wrote: > In the Preferences folder, there is a ByHost folder for a bunch of > files with names in the form of 'com.*.*' But there are also a bunch > of 'com.*.*' files (even Apple ones) that are *not* in the ByHost > folder. What gives, if anything? > > Is it that the ByHost folder is supposed to be preferences you can > 'forget about' when backing up? If it is, then I would include a LOT > of the com.apple.* files not in it, unless you've explicitly changed > them. For instance, the HIToolbox or helpviewer plist files. > > I'm sure that a lot of people just chuck the whole Preferences > folder onto the backup DVD without giving it a second thought, but it > still makes me a bit leary restoring preference files that I don't > really need to (too many years with OS 5-9 where preference files got > corrupted every other day!), not to mention all the $#%@ web-cache > files that are thrown in ~/Preferences. > > Of course, if I want to get this picky, I really should just start > using Retrospect Express.. From siracusa at mindspring.com Wed Nov 5 15:34:38 2003 From: siracusa at mindspring.com (John Siracusa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Cmd-O not working in list/column view in Finder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 11/5/03 12:57 AM, Jim Witte wrote: > Has anyone else had problems where Cmd-O stops working in the Finder? > I've had it stop working a lot, but not all of the time, for column > and list views, but never with icon views. Once tonight it was working > in one folder (in list view) but not in another. Then I went back and > then forward again in that (working) window, and it stopped working. Try a few other keyboard commands. I've had both cmd-d and cmd-, stop working in the Finder. I haven't been able to find a cause... -John From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Nov 5 15:37:07 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: scroll wheel acceleration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031105, 10:27 -0600, they whom i call William Ehrich wrote: >Scroll wheel acceleration in Panther is a clever idea which doesn't >work in practice because the wheel's sensor resolution is too coarse. > >I hope that someone will find a way to turn it off [...] i guess it depends on your mouse and your fingers.. i've been using scroll wheel acceleration via USB Overdrive for many months and liking it.. if you'd rather have unaccelerated scrolling, USB Overdrive can do that too -- steve harley From kremels at kreme.com Wed Nov 5 15:40:36 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: MailEnhancer Bug In-Reply-To: <901CB776-0EEC-11D8-978D-000A95913626@n9yty.com> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <901CB776-0EEC-11D8-978D-000A95913626@n9yty.com> Message-ID: <7A64C50D-0FC1-11D8-B2C3-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 04 Nov 2003, at 10:30, Steven Palm wrote: > Just a note that I finally released my plugin that does just this... > And a few other minor things. > > Search VersionTracker for MailEnhancer, or use the direct page: > > http://home.insightbb.com/~n9yty1/MailEnhancer/ If you have the autoupdate signature set and the current account doens't have a signature, ME sets the signature to "none" instead of respecting Mail.app's "Random" setting. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031105/ba4c3997/smime.bin From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Wed Nov 5 15:41:15 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Something I don't get about the iTMS In-Reply-To: <8DBB0E85-0F85-11D8-97FA-000393AE3644@mac.com> References: <8DBB0E85-0F85-11D8-97FA-000393AE3644@mac.com> Message-ID: <533CCA2D-0FA7-11D8-9518-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> > http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum? > playlistId=702325 > > Where's song Nr. 7? Maybe they liked Martha but didn't like Rosie? Who knows. It's weird, because Rosie's also Waits composition, not anyone else. And all the songs are produced by Jerry Yester. And the publisher is Elektra for all of them, no licensing from third parties. > a major shortcoming of the music store (and again, I don't think that > it's Apples fault). But then, perhaps it's Apple's fault and they forgot or their database is borked. j. From ehrich at mninter.net Wed Nov 5 15:43:11 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Mail.app white lists Message-ID: There is a script to import addresses from Eudora to "Address Book.app". That solves the Mail.app white list problem for now. Maybe the next version of Mail.app will let me read mail as conveniently as Eudora and similar programs, and drag-drop attachments. -- Bill Ehrich From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 5 15:59:33 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: neat expose hack In-Reply-To: <8403DF41-0F78-11D8-897E-000393DB5348@mac.com> References: <5C686BAC-0DDD-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <8403DF41-0F78-11D8-897E-000393DB5348@mac.com> Message-ID: <23720CA7-0FB6-11D8-A5B9-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 5, 2003, at 5:12 AM, Alex Fuller wrote: > > On 3 Nov 2003, at 9:08 am, Matt wrote: > >> >> defaults write com.apple.dock wvous-olddesktop -bool false; killall >> Dock >> >> I think I'll keep this... > > Interesting - could very plausibly be the first sign of a virtual > desktop function as AppleInsider claims... although the desktop itself > probably wouldn't change, just the window collection. Then again it > could also go the same way as minimize-in-place... Or perhaps it'll do > a Classic window-buffering on us and resurface in a couple of years... > considering the bugginess of it, it could also be somethign they forgot to remove. I've had it lock stuff up and it creates a mouse dead zone where the iconfied desktop would be. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031105/126145e8/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Wed Nov 5 16:15:44 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: 10.4 (was Re: scroll wheel acceleration) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30DB2B29-0FEC-11D8-84F2-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 05 Nov 2003, at 09:27, William Ehrich wrote: > OSX v10.4 ("Tabby"?). Ocelot -- The older you get the more you need the people you knew when you were young. From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 5 16:28:59 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Something I don't get about the iTMS In-Reply-To: <533CCA2D-0FA7-11D8-9518-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> References: <8DBB0E85-0F85-11D8-97FA-000393AE3644@mac.com> <533CCA2D-0FA7-11D8-9518-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> Message-ID: <57A97A90-0FEC-11D8-A5B9-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 5, 2003, at 10:47 AM, Jes?s D?az wrote: >> http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum? >> playlistId=702325 >> >> Where's song Nr. 7? > > Maybe they liked Martha but didn't like Rosie? > > Who knows. It's weird, because Rosie's also Waits composition, not > anyone else. And all the songs are produced by Jerry Yester. And the > publisher is Elektra for all of them, no licensing from third parties. > >> a major shortcoming of the music store (and again, I don't think that >> it's Apples fault). > > But then, perhaps it's Apple's fault and they forgot or their database > is borked. > could it also be the other songs have not been made available from the record companies but they want what is available posted? Say they haven't converted them yet... --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031105/1c652c94/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Wed Nov 5 16:30:51 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Mail.app white lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6226FDA1-0FEC-11D8-84F2-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 05 Nov 2003, at 11:13, William Ehrich wrote: > Maybe the next version of Mail.app will let me read mail as > conveniently as Eudora and similar programs, and drag-drop > attachments. Since when has mail not allowed drag-drop attachments? This has ALWAYS worked. -- The older you get the more you need the people you knew when you were young. From treaves at silverfieldstech.com Wed Nov 5 16:52:44 2003 From: treaves at silverfieldstech.com (Timothy Reaves) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Uninstalling an application Message-ID: <44047.4.2.170.194.1068060154.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> Hello all. As a new comer to Mac, I still find this process a bit confusing. What is the best way to completely remove an application from my machine? I see where you can just 'drag the directory to the trash can', but my understanding that all of an application existed in one directory was incorrect. I see stuff in the Library folder, and elsewhere. So - for example - if I want to uninstall the developer tools, do I really just drag the Developer folder to the trash? What about supporting libraries? One of the reasons I ask is when I installed the new XCode development tools, the old stuff was not uninstalled. This is bad - and wrong. The installer should have detected the old version and removed it (or at least asked). So now I am a bit paranoid; when I upgrade an app, or uninstall one, what problems will old files cause? Any advise appreciated. Thanks. From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Wed Nov 5 17:07:31 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <551819F8-0F7B-11D8-9FE0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: "Matt" wrote: > We still have Rhapsody. We do? d*g From seiryu at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 18:09:56 2003 From: seiryu at comcast.net (Nick Zitzmann) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Uninstalling an application In-Reply-To: <44047.4.2.170.194.1068060154.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> References: <44047.4.2.170.194.1068060154.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: <6336EA0F-0FFC-11D8-BD8F-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> On Nov 5, 2003, at 11:22 AM, Timothy Reaves wrote: > So - for example - if I want to uninstall the developer tools, do I > really just drag the Developer folder to the trash? What about > supporting libraries? No, because the developer tools installers put a lot of stuff into /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc. To uninstall the developer tools, you must type "sudo /Developer/Tools/uninstall-devtools.pl" from the command line. Nick Zitzmann AIM/iChat: dragonsdontsleep Check out my software page: http://seiryu.home.comcast.net/ S/MIME signature available upon request "I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone." - Bjarne Stroustrup From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 5 18:42:17 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <116838D1-1001-11D8-AA87-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 5, 2003, at 10:22 AM, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Matt" wrote: > >> We still have Rhapsody. > > We do? Let's not play stupid. We have Cocoa, which is the development part of Rhapsody Chad > > d*g > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From siracusa at mindspring.com Wed Nov 5 19:09:10 2003 From: siracusa at mindspring.com (John Siracusa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Why is the window server so interested in the disk? Message-ID: I just ran fs_usage for the first time on Panther and saw that the window server is just going nuts on the disk doing *something* I observed over 150 lines like the following *per second*! 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000786 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000082 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000015 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000012 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000167 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000005 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000005 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000005 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000805 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000098 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000014 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000012 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000011 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000006 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000006 WindowServer 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000005 WindowServer ... Granted it's not actually touching the disk, but WTF is it trying to do anyway? And does it need to do it 150 times a second? Yikes! Please try running "sudo fs_usage" in your Panther box and tell me if you see the same insanity. -John From dave at difference.com.au Wed Nov 5 19:17:50 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031104221625.GK3501@Dark-Age.local> References: <70EA0F52-0A94-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <087DA636-0AF6-11D8-96BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> <7F29829A-0AFE-11D8-B27E-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> <9A050B0E-0B15-11D8-BE6A-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <05ECCC02-0B2A-11D8-94AE-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <00B74D4D-0C90-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <20031104221625.GK3501@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: A >: If Apple had *wanted* to use the ideas behind the frames or data soup >: architecture, you'd think they would have by now. > >Apple already gave into stubborn old Mac developers by creating Carbon. >Apple took another risk and made Java a first-class API. Neither have >brought in hordes of developers like we all want to see. The point of Carbon was not to make hordes of new developers appear, the point of Carbon was to stop old developers fleeing. From that point of view, it has been a significant success. Cheers David From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 5 19:23:17 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 5, 2003, at 12:20 AM, Jim Witte wrote: >> totally brilliant move, is Apple's push for using open source >> software as the base for development of new things for Mac OS X. They >> manage to mix OSS and closed source > > Hrrrrmpph. I'm not exactly sure how this thread started, but after > a talk I had today with a grad student in the CS department here at > IUB about the email I sent to this list earlier about > seemingly-abandoned technologies, and about Jobs' mindset in > particular concerning IP, supporting older hardware (be it Newton *or* > Mac), and user groups (he apparently doesn't like them because they > support older Macs instead of pushing people to run out and get the > newest greatest Dual-G5 as he put it), I wonder how much of Apple's > push towards OSS is about the philosophy of it, how much is about the > definite advantages (security for one), and how much of it is about > cost (I'm sure Apple's low-level-OS team numbers has gone down since > they moved to OSS Darwin - they still need quite a few engineers to > manage the Darwin trunk and make sure everything fits together, but > they might need fewer "code monkeys"). > > If it was *all* about philosophy (and "intangible goodwill which I > believe they can count in the bottom line", as I put it to this grad > student), they'd release the headers to the NewtonOS and other stuff > that I mentioned. > Never forget, Apple is a business, as such they want to make money. That is the bottom line for any company really unless they are non-profit. MYself, I have no illusions about this, Apple releases some stuff and holds others close to the vest. So far Apple has treated me ok, both as a user and a developer. Personally, I think Apple has a decent balance between OSS and CSS. I don't expect, nor require them to release it all. For all we know NewtonOS is being used for something eventually coming out ? I tend to not inject politics into development though, I prefer practicality over politics personally. --Larry From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 5 19:28:26 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Uninstalling an application In-Reply-To: <44047.4.2.170.194.1068060154.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> References: <44047.4.2.170.194.1068060154.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: On Nov 5, 2003, at 2:22 PM, Timothy Reaves wrote: > Hello all. As a new comer to Mac, I still find this process a bit > confusing. What is the best way to completely remove an application > from my machine? > > I see where you can just 'drag the directory to the trash can', > but > my understanding that all of an application existed in one directory > was incorrect. I see stuff in the Library folder, and elsewhere. > > So - for example - if I want to uninstall the developer tools, do > I > really just drag the Developer folder to the trash? What about > supporting libraries? > > One of the reasons I ask is when I installed the new XCode > development tools, the old stuff was not uninstalled. This is bad - > and wrong. The installer should have detected the old version and > removed it (or at least asked). So now I am a bit paranoid; when I > upgrade an app, or uninstall one, what problems will old files cause? > Exactly what old stuff? Do you mean you updated XTools? If you watch the installer you will notice it says Upgrading. Also blowing away old preferences is bad imho. An upgrade should not invalidate your current configuration. I for one do not like having to reconfigure an app if I install a newer version as an upgrade of it. If you want to remove stuff full, besides the app bundle look in ~/Library and ~Library/Preferences. There might be some stuff there. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031105/a391dc7d/smime.bin From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 5 19:30:50 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Uninstalling an application In-Reply-To: <6336EA0F-0FFC-11D8-BD8F-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> References: <44047.4.2.170.194.1068060154.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> <6336EA0F-0FFC-11D8-BD8F-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> Message-ID: <24A3D050-1007-11D8-A5B9-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 5, 2003, at 8:56 PM, Nick Zitzmann wrote: > > On Nov 5, 2003, at 11:22 AM, Timothy Reaves wrote: > >> So - for example - if I want to uninstall the developer tools, do I >> really just drag the Developer folder to the trash? What about >> supporting libraries? > > No, because the developer tools installers put a lot of stuff into > /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc. To uninstall the developer tools, you must > type "sudo /Developer/Tools/uninstall-devtools.pl" from the command > line. > Good point, I forgot it did that. Also you could possibly make some stuff un-runnable if you remove some libraries for example. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031105/f996ea0f/smime.bin From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Wed Nov 5 19:34:09 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <116838D1-1001-11D8-AA87-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: "Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc." wrote: > We have Cocoa, which is the development part of Rhapsody Rhapsody was the clueless strategy of expecting Apple's developers (especially the big ones like Quark, Macromedia, Adobe, etc) to abandon their existing xplatform codebase and rewrite their apps for a new platform, a significant portion of whose user base was in the middle of migrating to Windows. Finally realizing the idiocy of this proposition was the first intelligent thing the Jobs regime did. d*g From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 5 19:37:51 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Why is the window server so interested in the disk? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 5, 2003, at 9:33 PM, John Siracusa wrote: > I just ran fs_usage for the first time on Panther and saw that the > window > server is just going nuts on the disk doing *something* I observed > over 150 > lines like the following *per second*! > > 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000006 WindowServer > 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000005 WindowServer > ... > I saw this too just now. A CACHE_HIT means it found a page in the cache. Man sc_usage for more information. My guess? You are seeing the page fault activity there. sudo sc_usage WindowServer That shows you more information about it. Cool little utility. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031105/92368986/smime.bin From cgaraffa at creativeaim.com Wed Nov 5 19:43:03 2003 From: cgaraffa at creativeaim.com (Chris Garaffa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Why is the window server so interested in the disk? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <010C441F-100A-11D8-A52A-000393D00E20@creativeaim.com> On Nov 5, 2003, at 9:33 PM, John Siracusa wrote: > I just ran fs_usage for the first time on Panther and saw that the > window > server is just going nuts on the disk doing *something* I observed > over 150 > lines like the following *per second*! What did you have running, and what was visible? Mail, NNW, Safari, iChat, Script Editor, iTerm and XCode were running; Mail, iChat, iTerm and Script Editor were visible. > Please try running "sudo fs_usage" in your Panther box and tell me if > you > see the same insanity. I did see the same type of behavior on Jaguar, but assumed that it was normal. I just ran sudo fs_usage > ~/fs_usage.txt (to make it easier to put in this email) and, over a one-second period: 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000029 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000032 ntpd 22:22:07 select 0.100029 W iTerm 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000029 WindowServer 22:22:07 select 0.100036 W iTerm 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000029 WindowServer 22:22:07 select 0.100045 W iTerm 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000017 cupsd 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000096 Mail 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000071 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000024 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000029 WindowServer 22:22:07 select 0.100032 W iTerm 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000029 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000029 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:07 select 0.100033 W iTerm 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000026 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:07 select 0.100030 W iTerm 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:08 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:07 select 0.100068 W iTerm 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000029 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:07 select 0.100048 W iTerm 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:07 select 0.100033 W iTerm 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000029 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer 22:22:07 select 0.100033 W iTerm 22:22:07 CACHE_HIT 0.000028 WindowServer Hm... that is a lot of CACHE_HITs for the WindowServer... but not 150 (so less than my Jaguar experience). Just for reference, if I run it without redirecting to a file, I see almost the same thing, except iTerm is much, much busier. What I'd also like explained is why I see: 22:22:09 lstat Frameworks/InstantMessage.framework/Versions/A/Resources/Buddy Logging Out.aiff 0.000075 iChat when I have all buddy sounds turned off... -- Chris Garaffa cgaraffa@creativeaim.com From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 5 19:47:13 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <20031104050806.MOPP1811.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: On Nov 5, 2003, at 1:10 AM, Jim Witte wrote: >> You can mix legacy C, C++ (Java, Pyhton, AppleScript, etc.) with >> Cocoa, you do not have to do a full switch. Many established >> cross-platform apps/games on Mac OS X have C++ cores wrapped by an >> AppKit UI. > > Is there any effort out there to produce a set of Scheme bindings > for Cocoa? I'm not sure what Cocoa's object system would turn into on > Scheme, but I'm sure it could be done (as a professor of mine said > today, "most things *can* be done in Scheme") > /me twitches. Shoot your professor, please please please? (just kidding) ;) Seriously? Scheme isn't really real-world. It's more of a research oriented language. I don;t see much value for it. I mean yes it has some good real world stuff..DSSSL, and some mathemtics stuff, but beyond that I don't know. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031105/1954320b/smime.bin From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Wed Nov 5 20:04:55 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Cmd-O not working in list/column view in Finder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Try a few other keyboard commands. I've had both cmd-d and cmd-, stop > working in the Finder. I haven't been able to find a cause... How exactly does a bug like this crop in? It seems like unless the base layer of how the menu handling code works whereever, or something in the key-handling code in Darwin, this shouldn't happen. At this point, I'd think those layers would be done, and not to be messed with.. Jim From aa4lr at mac.com Wed Nov 5 21:03:11 2003 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off Message-ID: <20031106044922.DMOC1852.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> On 11/4/03 11:28 AM, Shawn Erickson at shawnce@mac.com wrote: >You can mix legacy C, C++ (Java, Pyhton, AppleScript, etc.) with Cocoa, >you do not have to do a full switch. Many established cross-platform >apps/games on Mac OS X have C++ cores wrapped by an AppKit UI. It really depends on how well-factored your application was to start with. It still means re-implementing the UI portion. Most traditional Macintosh applications that have been in the market for a few years are likely a near-hopeless jumble of different coding styles accumulated over the previous decade or more. Even if written in a framework like MacApp, TCL, or PowerPlant, refactoring for Cocoa would be a significant investment. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From shawnce at mac.com Wed Nov 5 21:49:03 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031106044922.DMOC1852.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> References: <20031106044922.DMOC1852.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: On Nov 5, 2003, at 8:49 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: > On 11/4/03 11:28 AM, Shawn Erickson at shawnce@mac.com wrote: > >> You can mix legacy C, C++ (Java, Pyhton, AppleScript, etc.) with >> Cocoa, >> you do not have to do a full switch. Many established cross-platform >> apps/games on Mac OS X have C++ cores wrapped by an AppKit UI. > > It really depends on how well-factored your application was to start > with. It still means re-implementing the UI portion. > > Most traditional Macintosh applications that have been in the market > for > a few years are likely a near-hopeless jumble of different coding > styles > accumulated over the previous decade or more. Even if written in a > framework like MacApp, TCL, or PowerPlant, refactoring for Cocoa would > be > a significant investment. The same is likely true for .NET. From mark at imap-partners.net Wed Nov 5 21:54:24 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: smime.p7s - Eudora plug-in? In-Reply-To: <45BBAE74-0EA4-11D8-8609-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> References: <25949240-0808-11D8-AB7D-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <49E39D4C-080D-11D8-8989-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <0B283E83-0869-11D8-83A7-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> <485E7D01-0E7A-11D8-8A83-000A95935598@kreme.com> <45BBAE74-0EA4-11D8-8609-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> Message-ID: On 4 Nov 2003, at 9:52, Michael Maibaum wrote: > http://www.pgp.com/products/personal/index.html > > Sadly, this is a solution only for the entourage people.... and... its not an s/mime solution its a PGP solution, obviously. Its also not "only for the entourage people". Mailsmith and Mulberry have a fully integrated security solution based on PGP 8 Freeware. AFAIK, implementations based on PGP 8 are also in the works for GNUMail and PowerMail. It may even work with Mozilla, I haven't tried it in a while. mark. From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 5 22:04:44 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Why is the window server so interested in the disk? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <68C57100-101D-11D8-AA87-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 5, 2003, at 7:33 PM, John Siracusa wrote: > > 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000006 WindowServer > 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000006 WindowServer > 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000005 WindowServer > ... > > Granted it's not actually touching the disk, but WTF is it trying to do > anyway? And does it need to do it 150 times a second? Yikes! > > Please try running "sudo fs_usage" in your Panther box and tell me if > you > see the same insanity. > no. I had a few short bursts of 10 or 20 with the WindowServer or one other related piece and then all quiet for a long time of watching. Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 5 22:08:17 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 5, 2003, at 8:09 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > On Nov 5, 2003, at 12:20 AM, Jim Witte wrote: > >>> totally brilliant move, is Apple's push for using open source >>> software as the base for development of new things for Mac OS X. >>> They manage to mix OSS and closed source >> >> If it was *all* about philosophy (and "intangible goodwill which I >> believe they can count in the bottom line", as I put it to this grad >> student), they'd release the headers to the NewtonOS and other stuff >> that I mentioned. >> > > So far Apple has treated me ok, both as a user and a developer. > Personally, I think Apple has a decent balance between OSS and CSS. I > don't expect, nor require them to release it all. For all we know > NewtonOS is being used for something eventually coming out ? > Also, we should remember, it takes time, money, lawyers, and resources to release stuff like that and their is probably not enough of that to go around when the lawyers, engineers, and others who would be involved have other more important things to do Chad From logan.hall at asu.edu Wed Nov 5 22:09:28 2003 From: logan.hall at asu.edu (Logan Hall) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?RealPlayer_and_Expos=E9?= Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2365 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031105/01b2c58b/smime.bin From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 5 22:12:12 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <37DDFCE2-101E-11D8-AA87-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 5, 2003, at 8:14 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc." wrote: > >> We have Cocoa, which is the development part of Rhapsody > > Rhapsody was the clueless strategy of expecting Apple's developers > (especially the big ones like Quark, Macromedia, Adobe, etc) to abandon > their existing xplatform codebase and rewrite their apps for a new > platform, > a significant portion of whose user base was in the middle of > migrating to > Windows. Finally realizing the idiocy of this proposition was the first > intelligent thing the Jobs regime did. > What is this all about???? How does that relate to what I wrote? Rhapsody was a product, not a strategy. Matt or someone said that we still had arhapsody and you said "we do" and I replied with the above part about Cocoa, which is 100% accurate, and you blabber on about something that has nothing to do with the discussion? And how is this, your blabbering about Rhapsody, different from what the news people say Microsoft is doing with the "Longhorn" development? T hey are saying that they will have to rewrite all their stuff to take advantage of Longhorn as well. Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 5 22:38:11 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: how to get fast User Switching screen effect? Message-ID: Hi Both machines I have tried fast user switching on don't have any cool effects that I keep reading about, as in the quote here: "Apple handles the changeover with trademark flamboyance. When you click on another account name (in the upper right corner of the screen) and enter a password, the entire desktop becomes part of a 3D cube and rotates out of sight just as the new user's circles into view." USA Today How does one get the effect? My dad's G4 is not running at full screen resolution, though mine is, of that matters. What we get is a blank screen and then the new screen just appearing. Thanks Chad From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 5 22:51:06 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Outlook. Should. Be. Shot In-Reply-To: <9C3A8530-0EB6-11D8-8450-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <9C3A8530-0EB6-11D8-8450-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 4, 2003, at 6:04 AM, Matt wrote: > > So, you're an Outlook 4.5 user and you want to move to Mac OS X. For > some reason Mail won't import all of the Outlook 4.5 files so you do a > backup and move to Outlook 5.02 just to make sure it's not that. Of > course, Outlook 5.02 refuses to import the Outlook 4.5 files as well > so what do you do with 83 MB of mail files that Outlook refuses to do > anything with and Mail just gives you the knowing look that says > "Well, you DID use Outlook..." > > So...eudora has worked in the past as a way to get email moved from > Outlook but due to the excellence that is Outlooks proprietary format, > it's unable to get all of it. > > Colour me utterly disgusted. > > I'm feeling very hostile towards anyone who has anything to do with > that sonofabitch company. > > BEWARE: Stay away from Outlook, Entourage and Microsoft!!!!!!!!!! > One possible soltuion, painful as it would be. Setup an imap mail server move al lthe mail to the server then open it in mail and move it back, that should fix that... Of course that is using a sledgehammer to fix the problem. And with 83MB of mail it is a very painful way to deal with it --Larry \ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031105/140f3bfd/smime.bin From zbir at urbanape.com Wed Nov 5 22:54:29 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: how to get fast User Switching screen effect? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 1:24 AM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > How does one get the effect? My dad's G4 is not running at full > screen resolution, though mine is, of that matters. > > What we get is a blank screen and then the new screen just appearing. It's a Quartz Extreme effect, so far as I know. Perhaps your G4's graphics card doesn't do QE? Zac From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 5 23:10:18 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: how to get fast User Switching screen effect? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9CCC08BE-1026-11D8-AA87-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 5, 2003, at 11:45 PM, Zachery Bir wrote: > On Nov 6, 2003, at 1:24 AM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > >> How does one get the effect? My dad's G4 is not running at full >> screen resolution, though mine is, of that matters. >> >> What we get is a blank screen and then the new screen just appearing. > > It's a Quartz Extreme effect, so far as I know. Perhaps your G4's > graphics card doesn't do QE? Well, its a 64mb Gforce3 card and under 10.2 it claimed to support QE. I will investigate. That would explain my dad's lack since his card doesn't. Thanks Chad > > Zac > From dave at difference.com.au Wed Nov 5 23:12:21 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <37DDFCE2-101E-11D8-AA87-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <37DDFCE2-101E-11D8-AA87-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: At 10:58 PM -0700 5/11/03, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >On Nov 5, 2003, at 8:14 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: > >>"Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc." wrote: >> >>>We have Cocoa, which is the development part of Rhapsody >> >>Rhapsody was the clueless strategy of expecting Apple's developers >>(especially the big ones like Quark, Macromedia, Adobe, etc) to abandon >>their existing xplatform codebase and rewrite their apps for a new platform, >>a significant portion of whose user base was in the middle of migrating to >>Windows. Finally realizing the idiocy of this proposition was the first >>intelligent thing the Jobs regime did. >> > >What is this all about???? How does that relate to what I wrote? >Rhapsody was a product, not a strategy. Rhapsody was a product AND a strategy. Actually, Rhapsody was at least three products of which Mac OS X contains only one (Rhapsody the strategy also included Rhapsody for Intel and Yellow Box for Windows). Cheers David From ehrich at mninter.net Wed Nov 5 23:23:20 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Mail.app white lists In-Reply-To: <6226FDA1-0FEC-11D8-84F2-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <6226FDA1-0FEC-11D8-84F2-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: Lukreme asked: >Since when has mail not allowed drag-drop attachments? > >This has ALWAYS worked. I had tried dragging to the upper part of the window, as for Eudora. When I dragged into the text body it works. My mistake. Sorry about that. -- Bill Ehrich From rpuls at kcore.de Wed Nov 5 23:34:23 2003 From: rpuls at kcore.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Puls?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Recursively unlock files In-Reply-To: <18BE3A14-0EEC-11D8-BF91-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> References: <18BE3A14-0EEC-11D8-BF91-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> Message-ID: Hi, Am 04.11.2003 um 18:26 schrieb Andy Ringsmuth: > What is the command to lock or unlock files via the Terminal? I'm > cleaning out files from years ago at work, and the occasional file > here and there is locked, meaning I can't delete it (it's on a network > disk, so seemingly holding down option when deleting folders doesn't > override the locked file). > > Is there a way I can set all files inside a certain folder to be > unlocked? Something like this: > > # unlock -R folder_to_delete/ I think the chflags command is what you are looking for. The Finder uses the "immutable" flag of the filesystem for locking files: To lock a file (same as using the checkbox in the Finder info panel): $ chflags uchg filename To unlock it: $ chflags nouchg filename I think it also works on directories, but I haven't tested this: $ chflags -R nouchg directory Kind regards, Rene Puls From treaves at silverfieldstech.com Wed Nov 5 23:37:13 2003 From: treaves at silverfieldstech.com (Timothy Reaves) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: WWDC DVD In-Reply-To: References: <65051.4.2.170.194.1067961892.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: <56700.4.2.170.194.1067973749.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> > "Timothy Reaves" wrote: > >> They realize giving away the development tools is a good thing, I'd >> think >> they'd want people to see their presentations as well. > > Are you new to the Apple world? :) > > d*g > Yes. My dual G5 is my first Apple computer. I love it, and would like to get up-to-speed as fast as possible, especially with regards to development. Hence my interest in the WWDC DVD. Ah well. From celkins at mac.com Wed Nov 5 23:42:53 2003 From: celkins at mac.com (Christopher Elkins) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Recursively unlock files In-Reply-To: <18BE3A14-0EEC-11D8-BF91-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> References: <18BE3A14-0EEC-11D8-BF91-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> Message-ID: On Nov 4, 2003, at 9:26 AM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > Is there a way I can set all files inside a certain folder to be > unlocked? Something like this: > > # unlock -R folder_to_delete/ # find folder_to_delete -type f -exec /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a l {} \; -- Christopher Elkins From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 6 01:37:04 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Uninstalling an application In-Reply-To: <44047.4.2.170.194.1068060154.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> References: <44047.4.2.170.194.1068060154.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: On 05 Nov 2003, at 12:22, Timothy Reaves wrote: > Hello all. As a new comer to Mac, I still find this process a bit > confusing. What is the best way to completely remove an application > from my machine? Depends on the application. For the vast majority, simply drag it to the trash. Oh sure, a pref file or chace file might get left behind, but do you really care? It's not like windows where you have to be concious of getting rid of evil dll files. > I see where you can just 'drag the directory to the trash can', > but > my understanding that all of an application existed in one directory > was incorrect. I see stuff in the Library folder, and elsewhere. elsewhere where? > So - for example - if I want to uninstall the developer tools, do > I > really just drag the Developer folder to the trash? What about > supporting libraries? Developer Tools ar not "an app" but even then, the vast majority of the install is in the /Developer directory. > One of the reasons I ask is when I installed the new XCode > development tools, the old stuff was not uninstalled. This is bad - > and wrong. Why? I'm not sure about the intricasies of X-code, but I know at least with perl and java it is possible (nay, common) to have mutliple versions installed. In fact, it is rare now adays to see a production machine that isn't running at least two versions of perl. > The installer should have detected the old version and > removed it (or at least asked). So now I am a bit paranoid; when I > upgrade an app, or uninstall one, what problems will old files cause? So far you've asked about system components and not applications. -- Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 6 01:40:06 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Why is the window server so interested in the disk? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2EBEE618-103B-11D8-84F2-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 05 Nov 2003, at 19:33, John Siracusa wrote: > Please try running "sudo fs_usage" in your Panther box and tell me if > you > see the same insanity. I see about 10 of those cache hits per second. -- Man is born free, but is everywhere in chains. From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 6 01:40:55 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0005844F-1038-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 6 Nov 2003, at 03:14, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc." wrote: > >> We have Cocoa, which is the development part of Rhapsody > > Rhapsody was the clueless strategy of expecting Apple's developers... Wrong. Rhapsody was a product. > Finally realizing the idiocy of this proposition was the first > intelligent thing the Jobs regime did. In the scale of monumentally stupid things that he must have done in saving the company, revitalising the product line and bringing in a regime that actually attracted new users (if this was the first intelligent thing), what have you done today that was smart? Socks the same colour? Ooh, well done. M -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 6 01:41:50 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <844F4ED8-1037-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 5 Nov 2003, at 17:22, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Matt" wrote: > >> We still have Rhapsody. > > We do? Are you using Mac OS 9? From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 6 01:43:08 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_RealPlayer_and_Expos=E9?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 05 Nov 2003, at 22:48, Logan Hall wrote: > Has anyone else noticed that Real Player doesn't show up when hitting > Expos?'s F9? Anyone have any ideas why this is so? Because it doesn't use an OS X window. Yahoo Messenger, IIRC, does the same thing. Or, if you prefer, because the chimps at real can't program their way out of a thin paper take-out bag and chose to implement their bassackward software using custom windows and controls, thus instantly bypassing any advantages the system might provide. -- Use your key, unlock the door, see what fate might have in store. Come explore your dreams and Creations, Enter the world of imagination. From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 6 01:44:31 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Cmd-O not working in list/column view in Finder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <77F455A8-1038-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 6 Nov 2003, at 02:19, Jim Witte wrote: >> Try a few other keyboard commands. I've had both cmd-d and cmd-, stop >> working in the Finder. I haven't been able to find a cause... > > How exactly does a bug like this crop in? It seems like unless the > base layer of how the menu handling code works whereever, or something > in the key-handling code in Darwin, this shouldn't happen. At this > point, I'd think those layers would be done, and not to be messed > with.. I think it might be a bit higher up than that. I've had some weird experiences with applications that advertise Services and have keyboard shortcuts. Sometimes an app has the binding, sometimes not.... M -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 6 01:45:59 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Outlook. Should. Be. Shot In-Reply-To: References: <9C3A8530-0EB6-11D8-8450-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <02B199E1-103C-11D8-84F2-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 05 Nov 2003, at 23:39, Lawrence Sica wrote: > On Nov 4, 2003, at 6:04 AM, Matt wrote: >> So, you're an Outlook 4.5 user and you want to move to Mac OS X. For >> some reason Mail won't import all of the Outlook 4.5 files so you do >> a backup and move to Outlook 5.02 just to make sure it's not that. Of >> course, Outlook 5.02 refuses to import the Outlook 4.5 files as well >> so what do you do with 83 MB of mail files that Outlook refuses to do >> anything with and Mail just gives you the knowing look that says >> "Well, you DID use Outlook..." Well.... you did :/ > One possible soltuion, painful as it would be. Setup an imap mail > server move al lthe mail to the server then open it in mail and move > it back, that should fix that... > > Of course that is using a sledgehammer to fix the problem. And with > 83MB of mail it is a very painful way to deal with it Setup a LOCAL IMAP server and it's not so painful. -- There's nothing to do, so you just stay in bed [ah, poor thing] Why live in the world when you can live in your head? From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 6 01:47:00 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: how to get fast User Switching screen effect? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1EA17F87-103C-11D8-84F2-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 05 Nov 2003, at 23:24, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > Both machines I have tried fast user switching on don't have any cool > effects that I keep reading about, as in the quote here: > > "Apple handles the changeover with trademark flamboyance. When you > click on another account name (in the upper right corner of the > screen) and enter a password, the entire desktop becomes part of a 3D > cube and rotates out of sight just as the new user's circles into > view." > > baig_x.htm> USA Today > > How does one get the effect? My dad's G4 is not running at full > screen resolution, though mine is, of that matters. > > What we get is a blank screen and then the new screen just appearing. Do your machines support Quartz Extreme? It's a QR effect. -- Clark's Law: Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice Clark Slaw: Anything that has been severely damaged or destroyed by application of Clark's Law From michaelm at opendarwin.org Thu Nov 6 01:54:52 2003 From: michaelm at opendarwin.org (Michael Maibaum) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: smime.p7s - Eudora plug-in? In-Reply-To: References: <25949240-0808-11D8-AB7D-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <49E39D4C-080D-11D8-8989-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <0B283E83-0869-11D8-83A7-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> <485E7D01-0E7A-11D8-8A83-000A95935598@kreme.com> <45BBAE74-0EA4-11D8-8609-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> Message-ID: On Nov 4, 2003, at 11:49, mark wrote: > > On 4 Nov 2003, at 9:52, Michael Maibaum wrote: > >> http://www.pgp.com/products/personal/index.html >> >> Sadly, this is a solution only for the entourage people.... and... > > its not an s/mime solution its a PGP solution, obviously. Its also not > "only for the entourage people". Mailsmith and Mulberry have a fully > integrated security solution based on PGP 8 Freeware. AFAIK, > implementations based on PGP 8 are also in the works for GNUMail and > PowerMail. It may even work with Mozilla, I haven't tried it in a > while. > Read the page. PGP does x509 certs also. As for other clients, I just mentioned the ones on the spec list. ie Mail.app and Entourage. Michael -- Michael Maibaum internet: mike@maibaum.org | http://mike.maibaum.org voice: [m] 07958 604025 | From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Thu Nov 6 01:59:31 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Uninstalling an application In-Reply-To: <44047.4.2.170.194.1068060154.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> References: <44047.4.2.170.194.1068060154.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: <20031106074208.GI1680@Dark-Age.local> On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 02:22:34PM -0500, Timothy Reaves wrote: : : Hello all. As a new comer to Mac, I still find this process a bit : confusing. What is the best way to completely remove an application : from my machine? : : I see where you can just 'drag the directory to the trash can', but : my understanding that all of an application existed in one directory : was incorrect. I see stuff in the Library folder, and elsewhere. Many apps can be deleted by simply dragging the app to the Trash. Since there is no app registration scheme in OS X like there is in Windoze, there may be some leftover support files, preferences, etc. that you might have to manually search for (although leaving them may have no effect on your machine). Some apps come with an uninstaller that does do this work for you. But there's no standard method to do this either from the developers or from Apple. : So - for example - if I want to uninstall the developer tools, : do I really just drag the Developer folder to the trash? What about : supporting libraries? Some apps are not so easily uninstalled. The Developer Tools installs lots of additional programs, libraries, and other things. Since it does not come with an uninstaller, there's no easy way for you to accurately and safely delete everything related to the Developer Tools without hosing your OS X box. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Thu Nov 6 02:08:04 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <0005844F-1038-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: "Matt" wrote: >> Rhapsody was the clueless strategy of expecting Apple's developers... > > Wrong. Rhapsody was a product. That's your puny opinion. Here's a fact: Notice the title "Rhapsody Strategy"? It's the press release *from Apple* announcing it. It applies to both the product and the strategy. BTW, even NeXT fanboys understand that: Notice the title? >... what have you done today that was smart? I reminded someone paying attention was better than flaming. d*g From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Thu Nov 6 02:19:20 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <70EA0F52-0A94-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <087DA636-0AF6-11D8-96BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> <7F29829A-0AFE-11D8-B27E-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> <9A050B0E-0B15-11D8-BE6A-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <05ECCC02-0B2A-11D8-94AE-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <00B74D4D-0C90-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <20031104221625.GK3501@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <20031106075020.GJ1680@Dark-Age.local> On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 10:24:45AM +0800, David Cake wrote: : > : >Apple already gave into stubborn old Mac developers by creating Carbon. : >Apple took another risk and made Java a first-class API. Neither have : >brought in hordes of developers like we all want to see. : : The point of Carbon was not to make hordes of new developers : appear, the point of Carbon was to stop old developers fleeing. From : that point of view, it has been a significant success. I agree. However, the situation with Netwon technologies is different. As it stands, if Apple chooses not to bring any Newton technologies to OS X in the near future, the resulting fallout would have very very very little impact on Apple. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Thu Nov 6 02:26:14 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Panther Icon Placement In-Reply-To: References: <5A9E67CE-076D-11D8-A1AB-000A9566627E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20031106073120.GH1680@Dark-Age.local> On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 08:19:27AM -0800, Jeff Grossman wrote: : : Hsu wrote: : > : > Please please please file a bug on this (I know it's already been : > filed by others) so that Apple knows many people are seeing it. : > : Where do I file a bug with Apple? http://bugreport.apple.com/ -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From pmarcos at apple.com Thu Nov 6 02:34:09 2003 From: pmarcos at apple.com (Paul Marcos) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Profont and Mail.app In-Reply-To: <21071051-0F1B-11D8-B49E-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> References: <5A4947F6-0E4A-11D8-AF1A-000A957054BE@apple.com> <21071051-0F1B-11D8-B49E-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: <613E8093-0F29-11D8-87AD-000A957054BE@apple.com> On Nov 4, 2003, at 15:03, mark wrote: >> assuming you filed the bug against Cocoa, and not against Mail, i >> have a suggestion -- why not let the user decide what font to use for >> plain text messages, whether it's fixed width or not? > > I'll second that I'll third that. That's exactly what I did. :-) Paul -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2319 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031106/47654cd3/smime.bin From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 6 02:59:46 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5B96B3DB-1047-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 6 Nov 2003, at 09:53, Dan Gaters wrote: >> Wrong. Rhapsody was a product. > > That's your puny opinion. Here's a fact: > > > > Notice the title "Rhapsody Strategy"? It's the press release *from > Apple* > announcing it. It applies to both the product and the strategy. Strategy is a nice word for "plan". We still have Rhapsody the product in the form of the OS that a a few of us on this mailing list are actually using. "Apple expects Rhapsody to complement Mac OS in the Company's overall operating system strategy. While Mac OS will move forward as Apple's volume operating system, delivering market leading ease-of-use, multimedia and Internet integration, Rhapsody will be initially targeted at server and high-end desktop applications. Rhapsody aims to integrate Mac OS ease-of-use and functionality with the market leading technologies pioneered by NeXT Software, Inc. in OPENSTEP." and this is how it progressed. Please note that press release is 6 years old and Mac OS continued as Apple's volume operating system for a further 3.5 years from that date. So, frankly I don't see anything that counteracted that "plan" so in answer to your question "do we still have Rhapsody?" the answer is, of course, Yes. > BTW, even NeXT fanboys understand that: > In_Defense_Of_Apple_Rhapsody_Strategy > .html> > Notice the title? So, does anything that is a product evaporate into a non-product because it has a strategy? I mean, Apple has a Mac OS strategy. We still have Mac OS. Apple has a Mac OS X strategy. We still have Mac OS X. Ford has a Ka strategy. Ka still exists. IBM has a PowerPC 970 strategy. The PowerPC 970 still exists. Microsoft has a Longhorn strategy...uhh.... >> ... what have you done today that was smart? > I reminded someone paying attention was better than flaming. Well your strategy seems to be to troll your way through every day. I see no end product. Smart. Pity about the socks. M From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Thu Nov 6 03:11:13 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <0005844F-1038-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031106105624.GR1680@Dark-Age.local> On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 04:53:05AM -0500, Dan Gaters wrote: : : "Matt" wrote: : >> : >> Rhapsody was the clueless strategy of expecting Apple's developers... : > : > Wrong. Rhapsody was a product. : [...] : : BTW, even NeXT fanboys understand that: : [...] : : >... what have you done today that was smart? : : I reminded someone paying attention was better than flaming. On the one hand you say that insults are not helpful. On the other hand you use the derogatory term "fanboy". Pot? Kettle? -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From treaves at silverfieldstech.com Thu Nov 6 03:21:46 2003 From: treaves at silverfieldstech.com (T Reaves) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Finder question Message-ID: <64EE4F00-0F31-11D8-B8A2-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com> Is it possible to setup Finder to automatically adjust the width of the panel when I select a directory? I do not like to see the first & last part of the filename, with ellipses in between. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2385 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031106/eb40601a/smime.bin From surajrai at mac.com Thu Nov 6 03:27:02 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj K. Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: how to get fast User Switching screen effect? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6 Nov 2003, at 15:24, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > How does one get the effect? My dad's G4 is not running at full > screen resolution, though mine is, of that matters. > > What we get is a blank screen and then the new screen just appearing. Do you have dual monitors attached to your G4? If so, this effect does not seem to be supported on dual monitors. S.r. From mark at imap-partners.net Thu Nov 6 03:28:46 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: smime.p7s - Eudora plug-in? In-Reply-To: References: <25949240-0808-11D8-AB7D-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> <49E39D4C-080D-11D8-8989-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <0B283E83-0869-11D8-83A7-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> <485E7D01-0E7A-11D8-8A83-000A95935598@kreme.com> <45BBAE74-0EA4-11D8-8609-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> Message-ID: <51632E1B-104A-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> On 6 Nov 2003, at 9:39, Michael Maibaum wrote: >>> Sadly, this is a solution only for the entourage people.... and... >> >> its not an s/mime solution its a PGP solution, obviously. Its also >> not "only for the entourage people". Mailsmith and Mulberry have a >> fully integrated security solution based on PGP 8 Freeware. AFAIK, >> implementations based on PGP 8 are also in the works for GNUMail and >> PowerMail. It may even work with Mozilla, I haven't tried it in a >> while. > > Read the page. PGP does x509 certs also. As for other clients, I just > mentioned the ones on the spec list. ie Mail.app and Entourage. I know the page. PGP 8 itself may be able to deal with x509, but either the SDK is limited or the developers of "plugins" (Bare Bones, Cyrusoft etc.) either couldn't (unlikely) or chose not to support it. Until this changes, PGP remains effectively a PGP-only solution. Not that there is anything wrong with that at all. mark. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2373 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031106/f066ff24/smime.bin From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Thu Nov 6 03:29:31 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <5B96B3DB-1047-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: "Matt" wrote: > and this is how it progressed. Please note that press release is 6 > years old and Mac OS continued as Apple's volume operating system for a > further 3.5 years from that date. So, frankly I don't see anything that > counteracted that "plan" so in answer to your question "do we still > have Rhapsody?" the answer is, of course, Yes. Wiggling your way out of historical facts by selective focus is not so easy: "I had in mind a hardware-agnostic operating system. That's what Rhapsody was all about," said Amelio in a recent interview on CNET Radio. OS X spells the end for Rhapsody d*g From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 6 03:33:37 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Mail problem ...was Re: Apple's Dillema In-Reply-To: References: <6C31377E-0DDB-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <9C47B9FE-0DDD-11D8-A11E-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: On 4 Nov 2003, at 17:48, steve harley wrote: > at 20031103, 10:10 +0100, they whom i call mark wrote: >> I haven't really looked into whether this is broken in Mail or not, >> but from what you say... > > as i said, a broken but bracketed URL works fine in Mail, at > least Jaguar Mail.. i sent the one in question to my Mail > account and tested it.. if Matt's having a problem with it, > maybe Panther broke this? Turns out that Mail handled it as a URL fine. The problem was that the hard return in there was interpreted as part of the URL (I mean, it's valid characters right? so the blame goes back to either Entourage or Dan's sucky mail server. From surajrai at mac.com Thu Nov 6 03:43:29 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj K. Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:13 2005 Subject: Panther Mail Threading: disappointed In-Reply-To: References: <76781AC6-089C-11D8-A5EA-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Message-ID: <614D2462-104C-11D8-B947-000393D72954@mac.com> On 4 Nov 2003, at 19:01, Alex Fuller wrote: > I take it everyone has worked out the keyboard shortcuts to navigate > threads? (When using up & down arrow to flick up and down the message > list, you can use right and left arrow to expand and collapse a > thread). When expanding a thread this takes you to (usually) the > earliest unread message in the thread. Is there a way to keyboard navigate to the next unread message? In a long thread it is a bit annoying to have to scroll through a bunch of messages before getting to the next unread message. Thanks, S.r. From cricket at apple.com Thu Nov 6 03:53:19 2003 From: cricket at apple.com (cricket) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Mail.app white lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44745E70-0EEC-11D8-898D-000393073BE6@apple.com> You could use either Address Book or the Previous Recipients list (in the Window menu) as whitelists. There are new rule criteria for 'sender is/is not in previous recipients'. With Previous Recipients, they are entered automatically whenever you send a message to someone (you can manually remove entries if you want). With Address Book, you decide exactly what you would like to be added. Note that the menu that appears of every address in not only received messages, but in the compose window has an Add to Address Book option, so it's fairly easy to do this now. We added this because it only took 5 minutes of engineering time. ;) - cricket On Nov 4, 2003, at 4:53 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > In Eudora I use lists of friends' and vendors' email addresses, and > partial addresses, as white lists in my filter. Is there any way to do > that in Mail.app yet, or do I have to make an "Address Book.app" > business card or a separate filter rule for each one? > > > -- Bill Ehrich > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > -----> Software Entomologist ? Mail for Mac OS X http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/mail.html ----------> Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which we arrive at that goal. From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 6 03:59:43 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <945126EA-104F-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 6 Nov 2003, at 11:15, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Matt" wrote: > >> and this is how it progressed. Please note that press release is 6 >> years old and Mac OS continued as Apple's volume operating system for >> a >> further 3.5 years from that date. So, frankly I don't see anything >> that >> counteracted that "plan" so in answer to your question "do we still >> have Rhapsody?" the answer is, of course, Yes. > > Wiggling your way out of historical facts by selective focus is not so > easy: > Hang on. You keep changing the goalposts. Rhapsody is a product. You then shift goalposts to call it a strategy. Now you complain that I'm wiggling out of historical facts by changing focus? Apple said "We have a plan" True Apple created a product called Rhapsody True Apple said "Rhapsody is the core of our plan" True Apple said "Mac OS is our volume OS" True Apple shipped Mac OS as main OS for 3.5 years afterwards True I'd like to know what historical facts I'm ducking. > "I had in mind a hardware-agnostic operating system. That's what > Rhapsody > was all about," said Amelio in a recent interview on CNET Radio. > OS X spells the end for Rhapsody > "Apple Computer yesterday elaborated on anoperating system strategy that amounts to the death of Rhapsody, its one-time next-generation operating system, and its rebirth as a separate, hybrid product called Mac OS X." Now, you can quote journalists and PR at me all day, but the truth remains that the file structure, the libraries and the technologies that made Rhapsody still exist in Mac OS X. M -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Thu Nov 6 04:15:34 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <844F4ED8-1037-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <844F4ED8-1037-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 9:59 AM, Matt wrote: >> "Matt" wrote: >> >>> We still have Rhapsody. >> >> We do? > > Are you using Mac OS 9? No. Don't you remember he uses a PC? j. From jared at 23x.net Thu Nov 6 05:01:43 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: how to get fast User Switching screen effect? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FAA438E.1080302@23x.net> Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > Both machines I have tried fast user switching on don't have any cool > effects that I keep reading about, as in the quote here: My G4-400 with a 32MB Radeon Mac only did the rotate at 1280x1024 and not at 1600x1200. However, my Gloatbox[1] has a 9600Pro with 64MB and that spins the box at all resolutions. It's a GPU-RAM issue, by the look of things. [1] G5-2x2GHz, you *know*. Who's your daddy? 0wnage, etc. -- "Shiny!" jared@23x.net From markm at tyrell.com Thu Nov 6 05:49:16 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <70EA0F52-0A94-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <087DA636-0AF6-11D8-96BE-000393A335A2@mac.com> <7F29829A-0AFE-11D8-B27E-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> <9A050B0E-0B15-11D8-BE6A-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <05ECCC02-0B2A-11D8-94AE-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <00B74D4D-0C90-11D8-9E59-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> <20031104221625.GK3501@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: At 10:24 AM +0800 11/6/03, David Cake wrote: >A >>: If Apple had *wanted* to use the ideas behind the frames or data soup >>: architecture, you'd think they would have by now. >> >>Apple already gave into stubborn old Mac developers by creating Carbon. >>Apple took another risk and made Java a first-class API. Neither have >>brought in hordes of developers like we all want to see. > > The point of Carbon was not to make hordes of new developers >appear, the point of Carbon was to stop old developers fleeing. From >that point of view, it has been a significant success. If anything, it's been BSD which has brought in more new developers to the Mac platform more than any other API or toolset. With the BSD layer, thousands of open source programs have been ported to the Mac platform, much more so than being ported to Windows.... and the numbers keep rising. Some open source programs have come over with no GUI enhancements or front ends, while others have now been seeing Mac OS X front ends to these normally command line or server based tools. Apple itself relies very heavily on open source and enhances it for the normal Mac OS X user (just look at Panther). Carbon was key in transition from legacy for existing Mac customers. Cocoa was key in transition from legacy for existing Next customers... and many of the new GUIs in front of unix based open source programs are being done in Cocoa. Now, if I'd just get off my butt and port WINE to Mac OS X with x86 runtime, we'd have all the legacy Win apps that people *must* have and the transition for Win2Mac would be complete. ;) mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From treaves at silverfieldstech.com Thu Nov 6 06:19:12 2003 From: treaves at silverfieldstech.com (Timothy Reaves) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Uninstalling an application In-Reply-To: References: <44047.4.2.170.194.1068060154.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: <13652.4.2.170.194.1068127903.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> > On 05 Nov 2003, at 12:22, Timothy Reaves wrote: >> One of the reasons I ask is when I installed the new XCode >> development tools, the old stuff was not uninstalled. This is bad - >> and wrong. > > Why? I'm not sure about the intricasies of X-code, but I know at least > with perl and java it is possible (nay, common) to have mutliple > versions installed. In fact, it is rare now adays to see a production > machine that isn't running at least two versions of perl. If you have to ask why, you're not understand the reasons. Why would anyone want more than one version of an app installed? Perl is not an application, it is a scripting language. Yes, things like Perl, Java, Pythin, you might need more than the current version. But again, they are not applications. With 10.3, ProjectBuilder - an application - is no longer supported, and is replaced by XCode. XCode's install should have detected this and removed the no-longer-supported version. They same way I expect Apple Works to 6.x to detect 5.x is installed, and offer to uninstall it for me. > > >> The installer should have detected the old version and >> removed it (or at least asked). So now I am a bit paranoid; when I >> upgrade an app, or uninstall one, what problems will old files cause? > > So far you've asked about system components and not applications. > XCode - and the related development tools - is not a system component. It is an application. From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Nov 6 06:34:13 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: how to get fast User Switching screen effect? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <030EABC8-1065-11D8-A162-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 4:11 AM, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > > On 6 Nov 2003, at 15:24, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > >> How does one get the effect? My dad's G4 is not running at full >> screen resolution, though mine is, of that matters. >> >> What we get is a blank screen and then the new screen just appearing. > > Do you have dual monitors attached to your G4? If so, this effect > does not seem to be supported on dual monitors. No, good thought though. Wish I had dual monitors :-) For my dad's CPU, we figured out it must be because of his crappy non QE video card, but I have QE (at least under 10.2.x I did according to a tester program) with a 64MB Geforce3 card... thanks Chad > > S.r. > From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Nov 6 06:40:34 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: how to get fast User Switching screen effect? In-Reply-To: <3FAA438E.1080302@23x.net> References: <3FAA438E.1080302@23x.net> Message-ID: <3F70E8B8-1065-11D8-A162-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 5:50 AM, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >> Both machines I have tried fast user switching on don't have any cool >> effects that I keep reading about, as in the quote here: > > My G4-400 with a 32MB Radeon Mac only did the rotate at 1280x1024 and > not at 1600x1200. However, my Gloatbox[1] has a 9600Pro with 64MB and > that spins the box at all resolutions. Gloat gloat gloat. For my dad's, we figured out it must be his POS video card. I have a 64MB Geforce3 though and 2g of CPU RAM on an 800mhz G4. ANyway, it is not that important, though I'd like to see it once :-) Chad > > It's a GPU-RAM issue, by the look of things. > > [1] G5-2x2GHz, you *know*. Who's your daddy? 0wnage, etc. > -- > "Shiny!" > jared@23x.net > From kcall at mac.com Thu Nov 6 06:46:43 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: McDonald's planning iTunes giveaway - report Message-ID: <1758A740-1066-11D8-B4CA-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 147 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031106/4b2d8138/attachment.bin From ehrich at mninter.net Thu Nov 6 06:49:10 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off Message-ID: David Cake wrote: >The point of Carbon was not to make hordes of new developers appear, >the point of Carbon was to stop old developers fleeing. From that >point of view, it has been a significant success. I'm one of those old ones who used Carbon to port my programs which also had to be ported to Windows and Unix. Carbon code looks a lot more like Windows and Unix code than Cocoa does. I mostly write complicated processes with minimal user interface, and prefer to write plain C (or assembler), so Carbon is easier for me. I also like to make maps and graphs which are a lot of line segments (mostly to see what's happening in the process, like graphic printf() diagnostics). I tried using the new Quartz procedure calls, but they make fat fuzzy lines instead of cleanly crisp ones. And all that unwanted 'anti-aliasing' cost a lot of machine time, making the program take two or three times slower than my old MoveTo() LineTo() code. One thing that tempted me was the use of line segment arrays, but they couldn't handle gaps, and they ran half as fast as a simple for() loop. Another was the easy way to do scaling, but it also scaled the line thickness, making it useless for me. That may have changed since then. Cocoa is good for the kind of program which can make good use of its widgets. Carbon/C is more appropriate for my kind. -- Bill Ehrich From siracusa at mindspring.com Thu Nov 6 11:34:45 2003 From: siracusa at mindspring.com (John Siracusa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Why is the window server so interested in the disk? In-Reply-To: <010C441F-100A-11D8-A52A-000393D00E20@creativeaim.com> Message-ID: On 11/5/03 10:33 PM, Chris Garaffa wrote: > Hm... that is a lot of CACHE_HITs for the WindowServer... but not 150 Maybe my computer's just faster than yours? :) -John From siracusa at mindspring.com Thu Nov 6 11:38:19 2003 From: siracusa at mindspring.com (John Siracusa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Why is the window server so interested in the disk? In-Reply-To: <68C57100-101D-11D8-AA87-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On 11/6/03 12:52 AM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > On Nov 5, 2003, at 7:33 PM, John Siracusa wrote: >> 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000006 WindowServer >> 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000006 WindowServer >> 21:27:18 CACHE_HIT 0.000005 WindowServer >> ... >> >> Granted it's not actually touching the disk, but WTF is it trying to do >> anyway? And does it need to do it 150 times a second? Yikes! >> >> Please try running "sudo fs_usage" in your Panther box and tell me if you see >> the same insanity. > > no. I had a few short bursts of 10 or 20 with the WindowServer or one > other related piece and then all quiet for a long time of watching. I just ran it at work right after rebooting (but after launching a few common apps) and I see the same huge scroll. Both home and work machines are dual G5s. Hm... sc_usage shows this after a few seconds (chopped to fit in email): WindowServer 0 preemptions 65 context switches 2 threads 32 faults 193 system calls TYPE NUMBER CPU_TIME WAIT_TIME ------------------------------------------------------------------ System Idle 0:23.320( System Busy 0:00.528( WindowServer Usermode 0:00.170 zero_fill 1099(24) 0:00.013 cache_hit 192(8) 0:00.003 mach_msg_trap 1923(33) 0:00.016 0:23.736( mach_msg_overwrite_trap 2005(64) 0:00.076 0:23.107( sigprocmask 2029(65) 0:00.006 io_connect_map_memory 24(1) 0:00.007 io_connect_method_scala 72(3) 0:00.000 io_connect_method_scala 72(3) 0:00.001 vm_allocate 516(23) 0:00.003 vm_deallocate 40(1) 0:00.001 vm_protect 16 0:00.001 So I guess mayve it is VM activity, but it still seems like an awful lot of it. I don't recall Jaguar showing this kind of behavior...or maybe it's just fs_usage that's changed? -John From dinse at niehs.nih.gov Thu Nov 6 11:59:23 2003 From: dinse at niehs.nih.gov (Gregg Dinse) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Printing in Mail.app uses HUGE font Message-ID: Hi, I just installed 10.3 (Panther) on my new G5. Since the upgrade, when I print an email, it uses a huge font, like maybe 48 pt or something! How do I change this? Under the Fonts & Colors preference in Mail.app, the font sizes in the 3 boxes are 12, 14, and 14. I think this is the same as I had under Jaguar. Why is the font so large now? How do I control the font size for a printed email? It doesn't seem to be a general printing problem, since I printed something from TextEdit and all seemed fine. Thanks in advance, Gregg ================================= Gregg Dinse From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Nov 6 12:00:38 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: funnies Message-ID: -- steve harley From henry at trilithon.com Thu Nov 6 12:12:07 2003 From: henry at trilithon.com (Henry McGilton) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Why Does My System Not See The Airport Base Station Message-ID: Tuesday I installed an Airport Base Station on my G4 deskside system, and everything just came up and worked fine. Wednesday evening, having come back home and set up my laptop, the G4 deskside system no longer sees the Airport Base Station. I have tried re-setting the Base Station, powering it on and off, re-starting the deskside system, and a variety of other flailing, including Reading The Fabulous Manual about six times, searching Mac OS X Talk, and so on. No success. My laptop is clearly 'seeing' the Base Station, as it can tell me which network it is connected to. But the Base Station remains invisible to the other systems on the LAN. I have the Base Station connected via Ethernet cable to my Router. The Ethernet cable is plugged into the LAN port of the Base Station. Airport Admin Utility starts up, scans for Base Stations, and reports nothing. No amount of re-scanning does any better. The Network pane of System Preferences does not show a choice for Airport, either. So, something is screwy, but I do not know where to go next. Many Thanks, ........ Henry ===============================+============================ Henry McGilton, Boulevardier | Trilithon Software Objective-C/Java Composer | Seroia Research -------------------------------+---------------------------- mailto:henry@trilithon.com | http://www.trilithon.com | ===============================+============================ From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Nov 6 12:25:21 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 2:53 AM, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Matt" wrote: > >>> Rhapsody was the clueless strategy of expecting Apple's developers... >> >> Wrong. Rhapsody was a product. > > That's your puny opinion. Here's a fact: You are wrong. Matt is right. Rhapsody was a PRODUCT. There was a strategy behind that product (the "Rhapsody Strategy", but it centered around the product. You can have the strategy fall by the wayside and still have the product. They are not mutually exclusive. I was "in the scene" at the time and still have a bunch of Rhapsody disks lying around. They certainly were part of the product. Chad > > > > Notice the title "Rhapsody Strategy"? It's the press release *from > Apple* > announcing it. It applies to both the product and the strategy. > > BTW, even NeXT fanboys understand that: > > In_Defense_Of_Apple_Rhapsody_Strategy > .html> > > Notice the title? > >> ... what have you done today that was smart? > > I reminded someone paying attention was better than flaming. > > d*g > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Nov 6 12:44:07 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Mail problem ...was Re: Apple's Dillema Message-ID: [resending, since Omni's server replied: "Mailman error: post got bad listname: macosx-talk"] at 20031105, 02:07 +0000, they whom i call Matt wrote: >Turns out that Mail handled it as a URL fine. > >The problem was that the hard return in there was interpreted as >part of the URL (I mean, it's valid characters right? so the blame >goes back to either Entourage or Dan's sucky mail server. funny, Jaguar Mail had no problem realizing the hard return should be stripped.. or perhaps because i forwarded it from -- all that should have done is added format=flowed (Dan's original message with the URL did *not* use format=flowed) in any case Mail should strip the hard return -- that's exactly the intent of the bracketing convention.. i gave Jaguar Mail and Eudora a harder test.. this URL is interpreted properly in Eudora, but not in Mail: there's also a related bug in Mail -- URLs aren't live in compose windows.. they are live in Eudora, and i use this feature commonly when citing URLs.. i copy them from the browser then reduce them, removing session ids, etc., by hand and test that the URL still works before i send it -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Nov 6 12:44:39 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Uninstalling an application Message-ID: [resending, since Omni's server replied: "Mailman error: post got bad listname: macosx-talk"] at 20031106, 09:11 -0500, they whom i call Timothy Reaves wrote: > If you have to ask why, you're not understand the reasons. Why would >anyone want more than one version of an app installed? lots of reasons, e.g. for testing or backward compatibility (common in publishing, for instance) > With 10.3, ProjectBuilder - an application - is no longer supported, >and is replaced by XCode. XCode's install should have detected this >and removed the no-longer-supported version. suppose you want to work on a project on 10.3, but then hand it off to someone running 10.2? does XCode have a "save as PB" command? (i'm betting it doesn't, but i suppose it might..) just because Project Builder isn't supported doesn't mean there is no use for it.. this is actually quite similar to the perl, etc., cases -- steve harley From mdp1261 at rit.edu Thu Nov 6 13:14:39 2003 From: mdp1261 at rit.edu (Matt Penna) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Printing in Mail.app uses HUGE font In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:46 PM -0500 11/6/03, Gregg Dinse wrote: >Hi, > >I just installed 10.3 (Panther) on my new G5. Since the upgrade, when I print an email, it uses a huge font, like maybe 48 pt or something! How do I change this? Under the Fonts & Colors preference in Mail.app, the font sizes in the 3 boxes are 12, 14, and 14. I think this is the same as I had under Jaguar. Why is the font so large now? How do I control the font size for a printed email? It doesn't seem to be a general printing problem, since I printed something from TextEdit and all seemed fine. > Gregg, I have not experienced this problem myself, but there are reports of a bug in the Panther upgrade installer. Apparently - and only during an upgrade install - the installer fails to invoke an Applescript that creates a couple of new users that are a part of the printing system. If you repair permissions on the disk, the fact the users are missing causes strange things to happen during the repair and it ends up damaging the printing system. It's explained in a little more detail here: http://www.allosx.com/1067395661/index_html I haven't tried the fix they have posted, so use it at your own risk. (I did an upgrade install on my sister's iMac, so maybe I'll be trying this out myself!) Good luck! Matt -- Matt Penna mdp1261@rit.edu ICQ: 399825 Yahoo! Messenger: mdp1261 AIM: S0ba "The trouble with computers, of course, is that they're very sophisticated idiots." -Dr. Who From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 6 13:15:39 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Why Does My System Not See The Airport Base Station In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <938AC1C0-109C-11D8-93B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 6 Nov 2003, at 19:59, Henry McGilton wrote: > Wednesday evening, having come back home and set up my laptop, > the G4 deskside system no longer sees the Airport Base Station. First thing. You don't mention which version of Mac OS X you are using on the desktop so I'll resort to Terminal tricks. In a Terminal window, type: ifconfig en0 look for the result beside 'status'. It'll be either active or inactive. If inactive then you should check your cabling. If active then we need to look a bit further. Check the IP address of that interface (the ethernet card) and make sure it's on the right subnet. > My laptop is clearly 'seeing' the Base Station, as it can tell > me which network it is connected to. But the Base Station > remains invisible to the other systems on the LAN. Well, how have you tested for invisibility? Tried pinging the other systems on the LAN? > I have the Base Station connected via Ethernet cable to my > Router. The Ethernet cable is plugged into the LAN port of > the Base Station. > > Airport Admin Utility starts up, scans for Base Stations, and > reports nothing. No amount of re-scanning does any better. If you're not on the right subnet or if your cable is dodgy, this would happen. > The Network pane of System Preferences does not show a choice > for Airport, either. The G4, unless it has an Airport card, would not show this. M From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 6 13:19:46 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: They'll rue the day they abandoned the Mac Message-ID: ...and went Windows... > ""Top developers at Microsoft are working on a new graphics and > animation toolset for Longhorn (the next generation of Windows) that > could spell trouble for Macromedia's popular Flash MX and Director MX > animation tools". Flash's yet-to-be-released competition from M$ is > code named "Sparkle" but it wasn't demonstrated during Microsoft's > Professional Developers Conference in Los Angeles last week. Is this > the beginning of the end for Macromedia?" Sometimes I think that some companies who have, in recent years, been poor in their support for the Mac DESERVE to get their collective asses handed to them on a plate. Discuss. -- The boy stood on the burning deck/ Whence all but he had fled/ Twit - Spike Milligan -- From dinse at niehs.nih.gov Thu Nov 6 13:36:55 2003 From: dinse at niehs.nih.gov (Gregg Dinse) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Printing in Mail.app uses HUGE font In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Matt, I thought this suggestion would help, but it did not. I installed the fix and I even rebooted, but the font size in Mail.app is still very large. This does not seem to be a general printing problem. The only place (so far) that I've seen it is within Mail.app. Any other suggestions? Gregg On Nov 6, 2003, at 3:59 PM, Matt Penna wrote: > At 2:46 PM -0500 11/6/03, Gregg Dinse wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I just installed 10.3 (Panther) on my new G5. Since the upgrade, >> when I print an email, it uses a huge font, like maybe 48 pt or >> something! How do I change this? Under the Fonts & Colors >> preference in Mail.app, the font sizes in the 3 boxes are 12, 14, and >> 14. I think this is the same as I had under Jaguar. Why is the font >> so large now? How do I control the font size for a printed email? >> It doesn't seem to be a general printing problem, since I printed >> something from TextEdit and all seemed fine. > > Gregg, > > I have not experienced this problem myself, but there are reports of a > bug in the Panther upgrade installer. Apparently - and only during an > upgrade install - the installer fails to invoke an Applescript that > creates a couple of new users that are a part of the printing system. > If you repair permissions on the disk, the fact the users are missing > causes strange things to happen during the repair and it ends up > damaging the printing system. > > It's explained in a little more detail here: > http://www.allosx.com/1067395661/index_html > > I haven't tried the fix they have posted, so use it at your own risk. > (I did an upgrade install on my sister's iMac, so maybe I'll be trying > this out myself!) > > Good luck! > > Matt > -- > Matt Penna mdp1261@rit.edu > ICQ: 399825 Yahoo! Messenger: mdp1261 AIM: S0ba > "The trouble with computers, of course, is > that they're very sophisticated idiots." -Dr. Who From henry at trilithon.com Thu Nov 6 13:53:21 2003 From: henry at trilithon.com (Henry McGilton) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Why Does My System Not See The Airport Base Station In-Reply-To: <938AC1C0-109C-11D8-93B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <0760217A-10A2-11D8-BEED-0003935952E2@trilithon.com> On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 01:02 PM, Matt wrote: > > On 6 Nov 2003, at 19:59, Henry McGilton wrote: > >> Wednesday evening, having come back home and set up my laptop, >> the G4 deskside system no longer sees the Airport Base Station. > > First thing. > You don't mention which version of Mac OS X you are using on the > desktop Forgot that --- desktop system is 10.2, laptop is 10.3, and the other desktop system is 10.1. > so I'll resort to Terminal tricks. In a Terminal window, type: > > ifconfig en0 > > look for the result beside 'status'. It'll be either active or > inactive. Status is active. > > If inactive then you should check your cabling. If active then we need > to look a bit further. Check the IP address of that interface (the > ethernet card) and make sure it's on the right subnet. The LinkSys router has everybody on the LAN with IP addresses 192.168.1.xxx I have configured my desktop system, my other desktop system (running 10.1), and my PC (heap of junk), and my NextStation manually to have IP addresses on that 192.168.1.xxx subnet. The LinkSys router itself is 192.168.1.1. > >> My laptop is clearly 'seeing' the Base Station, as it can tell >> me which network it is connected to. But the Base Station >> remains invisible to the other systems on the LAN. > > Well, how have you tested for invisibility? Tried pinging the other > systems on the LAN? Yep, all the other systems are ping-able, other than the Next, which happens to be powered off at the moment. > >> I have the Base Station connected via Ethernet cable to my >> Router. The Ethernet cable is plugged into the LAN port of >> the Base Station. >> >> Airport Admin Utility starts up, scans for Base Stations, and >> reports nothing. No amount of re-scanning does any better. > > If you're not on the right subnet or if your cable is dodgy, this > would happen. I tried two different cables. Same problem. But this 'right subnet' issue may be a clue. I have the impression that the Airport station is on the 10.xxx.xxx.xxx net, but I do not know how to configure it if Airport Admin Utility can not see the station. > >> The Network pane of System Preferences does not show a choice >> for Airport, either. > > The G4, unless it has an Airport card, would not show this. > Ah, okay, I am beginning to figure that one out just a little. Thanks for your help, Matt --- the problem remains unsolved at the moment, but at least there were some valuable things to try to narrow down the problem. Many Thanks, ........ Henry ===============================+============================ Henry McGilton, Boulevardier | Trilithon Software Objective-C/Java Composer | Seroia Research -------------------------------+---------------------------- mailto:henry@trilithon.com | http://www.trilithon.com | ===============================+============================ From rogerhoward at mac.com Thu Nov 6 13:56:01 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Something I don't get about the iTMS In-Reply-To: <57A97A90-0FEC-11D8-A5B9-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <8DBB0E85-0F85-11D8-97FA-000393AE3644@mac.com> <533CCA2D-0FA7-11D8-9518-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> <57A97A90-0FEC-11D8-A5B9-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 5, 2003, at 4:01 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > > On Nov 5, 2003, at 10:47 AM, Jes?s D?az wrote: > >>> http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum? >>> playlistId=702325 >>> >>> Where's song Nr. 7? >> >> Maybe they liked Martha but didn't like Rosie? >> >> Who knows. It's weird, because Rosie's also Waits composition, not >> anyone else. And all the songs are produced by Jerry Yester. And the >> publisher is Elektra for all of them, no licensing from third >> parties. >> >>> a major shortcoming of the music store (and again, I don't think >>> that it's Apples fault). >> >> But then, perhaps it's Apple's fault and they forgot or their >> database is borked. >> > > could it also be the other songs have not been made available from the > record companies but they want what is available posted? > Say they haven't converted them yet... Doubt it - I tried to buy that album within the first week of iTMS. It's likely a licensing issue - that's one of his oldest albums, who knows.. I already owned it, but couldn't find the disc - I found it the day after I bought the available tracks (it's one of my absolute faves, worth whatever I spend on it). I was just listening (actually, singing) to that album this afternoon on a drive back from Vegas. There are other examples of incomplete albums - kind of a bummer because it prevents you from buying the thing as an album - would be nice if you could buy the existing tracks as an album, and be notified when the missing one(s) is/are available... but that'd probably be a legal problem if they never delivered (though I suppose they could just give you a credit for another track). I doubt the database is borked, since it's just not available as an album.. though I suppose there could be logic that determines whether something is available as an album (but again, I doubt that - it seems to be driven by the label and artist agreements). Pure speculation of course... -R From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 6 14:04:23 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Panther Mail Threading: disappointed In-Reply-To: <614D2462-104C-11D8-B947-000393D72954@mac.com> References: <76781AC6-089C-11D8-A5EA-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <614D2462-104C-11D8-B947-000393D72954@mac.com> Message-ID: <8CC8A01F-10A3-11D8-8D77-003065AB9B0E@kreme.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 4:28 AM, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > On 4 Nov 2003, at 19:01, Alex Fuller wrote: > >> I take it everyone has worked out the keyboard shortcuts to navigate >> threads? (When using up & down arrow to flick up and down the message >> list, you can use right and left arrow to expand and collapse a >> thread). When expanding a thread this takes you to (usually) the >> earliest unread message in the thread. > > Is there a way to keyboard navigate to the next unread message? In a > long thread it is a bit annoying to have to scroll through a bunch of > messages before getting to the next unread message. If you are thread view use left arrow to collapse the thread, then right arrow to expand it. The r-arrow will select the first unread message. There is still, AFAICT, no way to select a mailbox via the keyboard. Damnit. -- Ah we're lonely, we're romantic / and the cider's laced with acid / and the Holy Spirit's crying, Where's the beef? / And the moon is swimming naked / and the summer night is fragrant / with a mighty expectation of relief From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 6 14:05:04 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: how to get fast User Switching screen effect? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 4:11 AM, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > On 6 Nov 2003, at 15:24, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > >> How does one get the effect? My dad's G4 is not running at full >> screen resolution, though mine is, of that matters. >> >> What we get is a blank screen and then the new screen just appearing. > > Do you have dual monitors attached to your G4? If so, this effect > does not seem to be supported on dual monitors. Hmm.. worked for me with dual monitors (before the second one died) but it only did he effect on the main monitor. -- There's nothing to do, so you just stay in bed [ah, poor thing] Why live in the world when you can live in your head? From zbir at urbanape.com Thu Nov 6 14:20:40 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Something I don't get about the iTMS In-Reply-To: References: <8DBB0E85-0F85-11D8-97FA-000393AE3644@mac.com> <533CCA2D-0FA7-11D8-9518-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> <57A97A90-0FEC-11D8-A5B9-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: <78A2CD8C-10A5-11D8-9936-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 4:46 PM, Roger Howard wrote: > Doubt it - I tried to buy that album within the first week of iTMS. > It's likely a licensing issue - that's one of his oldest albums, who > knows.. I already owned it, but couldn't find the disc - I found it > the day after I bought the available tracks (it's one of my absolute > faves, worth whatever I spend on it). > > I was just listening (actually, singing) to that album this afternoon > on a drive back from Vegas. > > There are other examples of incomplete albums - kind of a bummer > because it prevents you from buying the thing as an album - would be > nice if you could buy the existing tracks as an album, and be notified > when the missing one(s) is/are available... but that'd probably be a > legal problem if they never delivered (though I suppose they could > just give you a credit for another track). > > I doubt the database is borked, since it's just not available as an > album.. though I suppose there could be logic that determines whether > something is available as an album (but again, I doubt that - it seems > to be driven by the label and artist agreements). Pure speculation of > course... Someone commented in an iChat group (go 'MacPython'!) that it could be licensing from the songwriter, who may have additional rights that need to be negotiated. Not sure, really, but it seems more plausible than an oversight, or some Apple flunky exercising their tastes :) Zac -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031106/a16eab85/smime.bin From krister at gazonk.net Thu Nov 6 14:21:42 2003 From: krister at gazonk.net (Krister Joas) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: how to get fast User Switching screen effect? In-Reply-To: <030EABC8-1065-11D8-A162-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <030EABC8-1065-11D8-A162-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <6068A354-10A6-11D8-B982-0003930544FC@gazonk.net> On Nov 6, 2003, at 11:25 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > On Nov 6, 2003, at 4:11 AM, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > >> >> On 6 Nov 2003, at 15:24, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >> >>> How does one get the effect? My dad's G4 is not running at full >>> screen resolution, though mine is, of that matters. >>> >>> What we get is a blank screen and then the new screen just appearing. >> >> Do you have dual monitors attached to your G4? If so, this effect >> does not seem to be supported on dual monitors. > > No, good thought though. Wish I had dual monitors :-) For my dad's > CPU, we figured out it must be because of his crappy non QE video > card, but I have QE (at least under 10.2.x I did according to a tester > program) with a 64MB Geforce3 card... Make sure both users you're switching between have the same resolution for all attached monitors configured. Otherwise the effect gets lost while the OS switches resolution. Krister From mark at imap-partners.net Thu Nov 6 14:22:03 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Panther Mail Threading: disappointed In-Reply-To: <8CC8A01F-10A3-11D8-8D77-003065AB9B0E@kreme.com> References: <76781AC6-089C-11D8-A5EA-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <614D2462-104C-11D8-B947-000393D72954@mac.com> <8CC8A01F-10A3-11D8-8D77-003065AB9B0E@kreme.com> Message-ID: <9D2FBB3A-10A6-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> On 6 Nov 2003, at 22:52, LuKreme wrote: > There is still, AFAICT, no way to select a mailbox via the keyboard. > Damnit. I can't find a way to do this either. Big shortcoming. The tabbing to move between the list, the preview pane (if showing) and the search field is neat, just extend that to the mailbox list and everything will be hunky dory. mark. From cgaraffa at creativeaim.com Thu Nov 6 14:40:35 2003 From: cgaraffa at creativeaim.com (Chris Garaffa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Panther Mail Threading: disappointed In-Reply-To: <9D2FBB3A-10A6-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> References: <76781AC6-089C-11D8-A5EA-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <614D2462-104C-11D8-B947-000393D72954@mac.com> <8CC8A01F-10A3-11D8-8D77-003065AB9B0E@kreme.com> <9D2FBB3A-10A6-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: <8254E0FF-10A8-11D8-A52A-000393D00E20@creativeaim.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 5:14 PM, mark wrote: > > On 6 Nov 2003, at 22:52, LuKreme wrote: > >> There is still, AFAICT, no way to select a mailbox via the keyboard. >> Damnit. > > I can't find a way to do this either. Big shortcoming. The tabbing to > move between the list, the preview pane (if showing) and the search > field is neat, just extend that to the mailbox list and everything > will be hunky dory. It's been done in iTunes (with different UI elements, but the idea is the same), so I'm sure it could be done in Mail. One condition, though; it would be a pain to have to sit and wait while the system slows down trying to load one mailbox after another -- only load the message list after a certain amount of time has passed. -- Chris Garaffa cgaraffa@creativeaim.com From mmalc_lists at mac.com Thu Nov 6 14:53:05 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6C9DD364-10AA-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 3:15 AM, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Matt" wrote: >> and this is how it progressed. Please note that press release is 6 >> years old and Mac OS continued as Apple's volume operating system for >> a >> further 3.5 years from that date. So, frankly I don't see anything >> that >> counteracted that "plan" so in answer to your question "do we still >> have Rhapsody?" the answer is, of course, Yes. > Wiggling your way out of historical facts by selective focus is not so > easy: > "I had in mind a hardware-agnostic operating system. That's what > Rhapsody > was all about," said Amelio in a recent interview on CNET Radio. > You just proved Matt's point. The core OS still runs on x86, and in general is well-abstracted from the underlying hardware... mmalc From mmalc_lists at mac.com Thu Nov 6 14:57:27 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 6:35 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > David Cake wrote: >> The point of Carbon was not to make hordes of new developers appear, >> the point of Carbon was to stop old developers fleeing. From that >> point of view, it has been a significant success. > I'm one of those old ones who used Carbon to port my programs which > also had to be ported to Windows and Unix. Carbon code looks a lot > more like Windows and Unix code than Cocoa does. > I mostly write complicated processes with minimal user interface, and > prefer to write plain C (or assembler), so Carbon is easier for me. > Umm, there's a non-sequitur there. Plain C is the same in Carbon and Cocoa. If you want to create a user interface for a new application, Cocoa is likely to be a lot easier (especially with the new controller layer technologies in Panther) -- this is precisely why people in the sciences are interested in this stuff. > I also like to make maps and graphs which are a lot of line segments > (mostly to see what's happening in the process, like graphic printf() > diagnostics). I tried using the new Quartz procedure calls, but they > make fat fuzzy lines instead of cleanly crisp ones. > I suspect you were drawing > And all that unwanted 'anti-aliasing' cost a lot of machine time, > making the program take two or three times slower than my old MoveTo() > LineTo() code. > You can switch off anti-aliasing. > One thing that tempted me was the use of line segment arrays, but they > couldn't handle gaps, and they ran half as fast as a simple for() > loop. > Umm, bezier paths certainly can have gaps. > Another was the easy way to do scaling, but it also scaled the line > thickness, making it useless for me. That may have changed since then. > I'm not sure why this is a surprise. If you set a line width of 1, then scale by 10, of course it will be drawn 10 pixels wide... PostScript does define a that a line width of 0 will draw one "pixel" wide regardless of scaling and resolution. This is very handy for maintaining a constant width on-screen, however may be less useful when, say, outputting to a 2500 dpi printer. > Cocoa is good for the kind of program which can make good use of its > widgets. Carbon/C is more appropriate for my kind. > As an unqualified statement, that's inaccurate. mmalc From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Thu Nov 6 15:07:15 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <945126EA-104F-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: "Matt" wrote: > Rhapsody is a product. You then shift goalposts to call it a strategy. That's your opinion. Rhapsody was a strategy, advanced chiefly but not solely by an eponymous OS product. > you can quote journalists and PR at me all day, You provided the quote. For the record, the *only* references I provided were from A. Stone (one of the most vocal promoters of NeXT technologies), Apple (the vendor of Rhapsody) announcing it (I don't know what else could be more relevant) and a direct quote from Amelio (the Apple CEO at the time Rhapsody was formulated and announced). Like I said, paying attention is better than flaming (and misrepresentation). d*g From thomasv at mac.com Thu Nov 6 15:07:43 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: They'll rue the day they abandoned the Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2B4182F3-10AC-11D8-973F-003065C4548E@mac.com> MS has been talking about Sparkle for years. Just because MS releases something doesn't make it a standard. Good solid technology still can beat it. Look at PDF. PDF has overtaken .doc to become the defacto standard for the transmission of documents across organizations. Cheers, Tom On Nov 6, 2003, at 1:12 PM, Matt wrote: > ...and went Windows... > >> ""Top developers at Microsoft are working on a new graphics and >> animation toolset for Longhorn (the next generation of Windows) that >> could spell trouble for Macromedia's popular Flash MX and Director MX >> animation tools". Flash's yet-to-be-released competition from M$ is >> code named "Sparkle" but it wasn't demonstrated during Microsoft's >> Professional Developers Conference in Los Angeles last week. Is this >> the beginning of the end for Macromedia?" > > Sometimes I think that some companies who have, in recent years, been > poor in their support for the Mac DESERVE to get their collective > asses handed to them on a plate. > > Discuss. > > -- > The boy stood on the burning deck/ > Whence all but he had fled/ > Twit - Spike Milligan > -- > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 6 15:13:07 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Uninstalling an application In-Reply-To: <13652.4.2.170.194.1068127903.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> References: <44047.4.2.170.194.1068060154.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> <13652.4.2.170.194.1068127903.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 7:11 AM, Timothy Reaves wrote: >> On 05 Nov 2003, at 12:22, Timothy Reaves wrote: >>> One of the reasons I ask is when I installed the new XCode >>> development tools, the old stuff was not uninstalled. This is bad - >>> and wrong. >> >> Why? I'm not sure about the intricasies of X-code, but I know at >> least >> with perl and java it is possible (nay, common) to have mutliple >> versions installed. In fact, it is rare now adays to see a production >> machine that isn't running at least two versions of perl. > > If you have to ask why, you're not understand the reasons. Why > would > anyone want more than one version of an app installed? Perl is not > an application, it is a scripting language. Yes, things like Perl, > Java, Pythin, you might need more than the current version. But > again, they are not applications. My understanding is that Xcode is a full development environment. Not simply an application. -- There's nothing to do, so you just stay in bed [ah, poor thing] Why live in the world when you can live in your head? From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Thu Nov 6 15:13:28 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: They'll rue the day they abandoned the Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031106221800.GS1680@Dark-Age.local> On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 09:12:26PM +0000, Matt wrote: : : ...and went Windows... : : >""Top developers at Microsoft are working on a new graphics and : >animation toolset for Longhorn (the next generation of Windows) that : >could spell trouble for Macromedia's popular Flash MX and Director MX : >animation tools". Flash's yet-to-be-released competition from M$ is : >code named "Sparkle" but it wasn't demonstrated during Microsoft's : >Professional Developers Conference in Los Angeles last week. Is this : >the beginning of the end for Macromedia?" : : Sometimes I think that some companies who have, in recent years, been : poor in their support for the Mac DESERVE to get their collective : asses handed to them on a plate. M$ will do to Macromedia what they did with Netscape. The only way to break the cycle is to wrest IE's domination from M$. Hopefully the author of Sparkle will come in and sue M$ over DMCA infringements! -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From cthacker at casmail.ucsf.edu Thu Nov 6 15:21:13 2003 From: cthacker at casmail.ucsf.edu (chris thacker) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: McDonald's planning iTunes giveaway - report In-Reply-To: <1758A740-1066-11D8-B4CA-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> References: <1758A740-1066-11D8-B4CA-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> Message-ID: speaking of music, is your icon image of kip winger or is that really you? ------------------- Chris Thacker Campus Life Services - Information Systems University of California at San Francisco [ help desk ] 415 502-5511 [direct line] 415 514-3373 On Nov 6, 2003, at 6:32 AM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 568 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031106/f052b68f/attachment.bin From mmalc_lists at mac.com Thu Nov 6 15:24:30 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 2:50 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >> I also like to make maps and graphs which are a lot of line segments >> (mostly to see what's happening in the process, like graphic printf() >> diagnostics). I tried using the new Quartz procedure calls, but they >> make fat fuzzy lines instead of cleanly crisp ones. >> > I suspect you were drawing > ... at integer points. If you draw along the line y = 2, then you will get fuzzy lines due to the fact that you're drawing on the boundary between two pixels. Drawing at y = 2.5 should give a crisp line, even with antialiasing... mmalc From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Thu Nov 6 15:34:43 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031104050806.MOPP1811.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: On 11/3/03 9:08 PM, "Bill Coleman" wrote: > Originally, Apple chose to separate classic MacOS and Rhapsody coding. To > upgrade an existing MacOS application to Rhapsody, you had to re-write > all of your UI code in Cocoa. > > Developers didn't go for it. They had too much invested in the old > toolbox. That's why Apple had to fix the toolbox to work on MacOS X -- a > technology we call Carbon. > > Microsoft faces much the same situation. In order to get many of the > benefits of Longhorn, developers must convert their existing code into > Longhorn-specific code. That's very expensive, and developers would > resist this. However, Microsoft has no problem convincing the largest > application developer from doing this -- because they are the largest > application developer. Longhorn lets you easily mix Avalon calls with Win32 calls, just like you can mix CoreGraphics calls with QuickDraw calls. Dan From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Nov 6 15:39:23 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Panther Mail Threading: disappointed In-Reply-To: <8CC8A01F-10A3-11D8-8D77-003065AB9B0E@kreme.com> References: <76781AC6-089C-11D8-A5EA-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <614D2462-104C-11D8-B947-000393D72954@mac.com> <8CC8A01F-10A3-11D8-8D77-003065AB9B0E@kreme.com> Message-ID: at 20031106, 14:52 -0700, they whom i call LuKreme wrote: >There is still, AFAICT, no way to select a mailbox via the keyboard. Damnit. i posted this last month, and assume it still works for Panther Mail.. modify as desired and assign to a shortcut: tell application "Mail" set selected mailboxes of message viewer 1 to {mailbox "applescript users"} end tell -- steve harley From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Thu Nov 6 15:53:42 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <945126EA-104F-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031106234040.GB6539@Dark-Age.local> On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 05:54:14PM -0500, Dan Gaters wrote: : : "Matt" wrote: : > : > Rhapsody is a product. You then shift goalposts to call it a strategy. : : That's your opinion. Rhapsody was a strategy, advanced chiefly but not : solely by an eponymous OS product. That's your opinion too, whether you like it or not. (wondering if Dan Gaters == Jason Kamen) -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 6 15:55:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Why Does My System Not See The Airport Base Station In-Reply-To: <0760217A-10A2-11D8-BEED-0003935952E2@trilithon.com> References: <0760217A-10A2-11D8-BEED-0003935952E2@trilithon.com> Message-ID: On 6 Nov 2003, at 21:41, Henry McGilton wrote: > The LinkSys router has everybody on the LAN with IP addresses > 192.168.1.xxx > I have configured my desktop system, my other desktop system (running > 10.1), > and my PC (heap of junk), and my NextStation manually to have IP > addresses > on that 192.168.1.xxx subnet. The LinkSys router itself is > 192.168.1.1. > Yep, all the other systems are ping-able, other than the Next, which > happens > to be powered off at the moment. Well, can you ping everything? The airport of the laptop? The airport interface itself of the base station (it's the router address of the wireless connection) The desktop interfaces? > But this 'right subnet' issue may be a clue. I have the impression > that the > Airport station is on the 10.xxx.xxx.xxx net, but I do not know how to > configure it > if Airport Admin Utility can not see the station. By default, the airport creates a NAT'd network in the 10.0.x.x range using a single IP on it's WAN interface. The easiest way to connect to it is via wireless. M From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 6 15:57:11 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: They'll rue the day they abandoned the Mac In-Reply-To: <2B4182F3-10AC-11D8-973F-003065C4548E@mac.com> References: <2B4182F3-10AC-11D8-973F-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <4B6B93C5-10B3-11D8-93B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 6 Nov 2003, at 22:54, Thomas Vincent wrote: > MS has been talking about Sparkle for years. Just because MS releases > something doesn't make it a standard. Oh Thomas, you used to be so cynical... > Good solid technology still can beat it. Look at PDF. PDF has > overtaken .doc to become the defacto standard for the transmission of > documents across organizations. Well, maybe between organisations but not across internally. I mean...even Apple uses Excel which kills the notion that there might be a Keynote-inspired Excel killer in there... :( From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 6 16:04:47 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <193F377E-10B4-11D8-93B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 6 Nov 2003, at 22:54, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Matt" wrote: >> Rhapsody is a product. You then shift goalposts to call it a strategy. > That's your opinion. Rhapsody was a strategy, advanced chiefly but not > solely by an eponymous OS product. Uh, nope. Rhapsody was a product first and foremost. The plan for Rhapsody was different to the product. >> you can quote journalists and PR at me all day, > > You provided the quote. Taken from the URL you provided. Get. Facts. Straight. > For the record, the *only* references I provided were from A. Stone > (one of the most vocal promoters of NeXT technologies), And he didn't agree with you either. He talked entirely about Apple's plan for Rhapsody being different to what he might have done and discussed how he was okay with Apple being secret about their product releases and dates thereof. > Apple (the vendor of Rhapsody) announcing it (I don't know what else > could be more relevant) But what did they announce? The plan they had for a product. > and a direct quote from Amelio (the Apple CEO at the time Rhapsody was > formulated and announced). and Amelio said he wanted a hardware agnostic OS. In Darwin we trust. > Like I said, paying attention is better than flaming (and > misrepresentation). Oh here it comes. Anyone who disagrees with you (and provides some measure of proof) is not misrepresenting. Is this what comes from me wiggling out of historical facts by changing focus rather than you goalpost-shifting. if anything you attempted to misrepresent Andrew, Apple and Amelio by throwing URLs around with gay abandon without actually reading the article properly. Eat me, Dan. M -- Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Nov 6 16:08:39 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 3:54 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Matt" wrote: > >> Rhapsody is a product. You then shift goalposts to call it a strategy. > > That's your opinion. Rhapsody was a strategy, advanced chiefly but not > solely by an eponymous OS product. No, it's a fact. Rhapsody was a PRODUCT that evolved into OS X. There was also an attached strategy that went by the same name. As OS X is Rhapsody evolved, it is correct to say that Rhapsody is still with us. Give it up. You are wrong. Chad > >> you can quote journalists and PR at me all day, > > You provided the quote. For the record, the *only* references I > provided > were from A. Stone (one of the most vocal promoters of NeXT > technologies), > Apple (the vendor of Rhapsody) announcing it (I don't know what else > could > be more relevant) and a direct quote from Amelio (the Apple CEO at the > time > Rhapsody was formulated and announced). Like I said, paying attention > is > better than flaming (and misrepresentation). > > d*g > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From charlesd at newsguy.com Thu Nov 6 16:11:50 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:14 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031106234040.GB6539@Dark-Age.local> References: <945126EA-104F-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <20031106234040.GB6539@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: At 17:40 -0600 06/11/2003, Eugene Lee wrote: >On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 05:54:14PM -0500, Dan Gaters wrote: >: >: "Matt" wrote: >: > >: > Rhapsody is a product. You then shift goalposts to call it a strategy. >: >: That's your opinion. Rhapsody was a strategy, advanced chiefly but not >: solely by an eponymous OS product. > >That's your opinion too, whether you like it or not. > >(wondering if Dan Gaters == Jason Kamen) Get out an old copy of a jK post. Look at the headers. Compare to a d.g post. HTH. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Nov 6 16:12:35 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5663F092-10B5-11D8-A162-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 3:54 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Matt" wrote: > >> Rhapsody is a product. You then shift goalposts to call it a strategy. > > That's your opinion. Rhapsody was a strategy, advanced chiefly but not > solely by an eponymous OS product. > Proof of the fact that Rhapsody was a product that had an eponymous Strategy and not the other way around. Was Copland a product or a strategy? Was Sonata a product or a strategy? Were any of the other OS releases with musical code names products or strategies? Is Panther a product or a strategy? Is Jaguar a product or Strategy? Was BHA a product or strategy? Hint: They were all products If all of Apple's other codenames represented products, including the like-named musical ones like Copland and Sonata, why would Rhapsody be any different? Best Chad From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Thu Nov 6 16:19:21 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 11/3/03 10:25 PM, "Michael Stearne" wrote: > I know, like the XML format for Word documents that they've been > promising for 4 years, yet didn't even do it in Office 2003. Sure they did! Dan From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Thu Nov 6 16:30:22 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <5663F092-10B5-11D8-A162-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: "Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc." wrote: > why would Rhapsody be any different? "I had in mind a hardware-agnostic operating system. That's what Rhapsody was all about," said Amelio in a recent interview on CNET Radio. For starters, no other Apple OS had that as a goal or required ISVs to rewrite their apps to such an extent. d*g From mmalc_lists at mac.com Thu Nov 6 17:06:57 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 4:19 PM, Jason Kamen wrote: >> why would Rhapsody be any different? > "I had in mind a hardware-agnostic operating system. That's what > Rhapsody > was all about," said Amelio in a recent interview on CNET Radio. > And to repeat: that's exactly what we have. > For starters, no other Apple OS had that as a goal or required ISVs to > rewrite their apps to such an extent. > Irrelevant. mmalc From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Nov 6 17:13:57 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58776912-10BE-11D8-A162-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 5:19 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc." wrote: > >> why would Rhapsody be any different? > > "I had in mind a hardware-agnostic operating system. That's what > Rhapsody > was all about," said Amelio in a recent interview on CNET Radio. Are you really this dumb or do you just play it on the internet? What about the above quote proves your point that Rhapsody was first and foremost a Strategy and not a Product? Amelio is talking about a Product, in case you can't read. > > For starters, no other Apple OS had that as a goal or required ISVs to > rewrite their apps to such an extent. So? What does that have to do with Rhapsody being a product or a strategy? Chad > > d*g > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Thu Nov 6 17:27:49 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: "mmalcolm crawford" wrote: > And to repeat: that's exactly what we have. No we don't. Apple doesn't sell OS X that runs on Intel machines. We don't have ISVs writing to a single Apple API that runs on both platforms. d*g From thomasv at mac.com Thu Nov 6 17:36:28 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: They'll rue the day they abandoned the Mac In-Reply-To: <20031106221800.GS1680@Dark-Age.local> References: <20031106221800.GS1680@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 2:18 PM, Eugene Lee wrote: > M$ will do to Macromedia what they did with Netscape. The only way to > break the cycle is to wrest IE's domination from M$. Macromedia makes its money off of content creation tools. Not giving away flash. From thomasv at mac.com Thu Nov 6 17:38:10 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: They'll rue the day they abandoned the Mac In-Reply-To: <4B6B93C5-10B3-11D8-93B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <2B4182F3-10AC-11D8-973F-003065C4548E@mac.com> <4B6B93C5-10B3-11D8-93B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <4DD4BAA2-10C1-11D8-973F-003065C4548E@mac.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 3:45 PM, Matt wrote: > Oh Thomas, you used to be so cynical... I must not be reading this mailing list enough. =) >> Good solid technology still can beat it. Look at PDF. PDF has >> overtaken .doc to become the defacto standard for the transmission of >> documents across organizations. > > Well, maybe between organisations but not across internally. Depends on the type of doc, and whether it will be edited or not. > > I mean...even Apple uses Excel which kills the notion that there might > be a Keynote-inspired Excel killer in there... > > :( You can print excel spreadsheets in PDF. But PDF's generally aren't there to be edited. Plus, excel spreadsheets contain all sorts of formula's and the such. Cheers, Tom From dennyrex at earthlink.net Thu Nov 6 18:22:37 2003 From: dennyrex at earthlink.net (Rick Sanford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: They'll rue the day they abandoned the Mac In-Reply-To: <4DD4BAA2-10C1-11D8-973F-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 08:25 PM, Thomas Vincent wrote: > On Nov 6, 2003, at 3:45 PM, Matt wrote: > >> I mean...even Apple uses Excel which kills the notion that there >> might be a Keynote-inspired Excel killer in there... >> >> :( > > You can print excel spreadsheets in PDF. But PDF's generally aren't > there to be edited. Plus, excel spreadsheets contain all sorts of > formula's and the such. > > Cheers, > Tom hopefully, and in the mean time, they can use (the new) Quantrix. (PC only for awhile I'm afraid.) [1] -rick [1] I know this seems OT, but there is some interest in, and efforts towards, getting this ported to OS X. They are recommending via VPC for now. > Today, a new dimension of financial modeling begins with Quantrix > > November 6, 2003 > > It's official! The release of the Quantrix Modeler financial modeling > software for professionals is here. > > To download the free trial or to order version 1.0, go to > www.quantrix.com. > > You'll now have the tools necessary to meet today's business challenges > with a level of speed, accuracy and efficiency that traditional > two-dimensional software simply can't match. > > Explore multiple dimensions simultaneously. Define formulas with real > words, not arbitrary coordinates. Effect changes in your data or create > new scenarios without rewriting, restructuring or recreating models. > And > express results in a format that is understandable and easy to track > and > audit by others. > > Should you have any questions about any facet of installing or > unleashing > the power of the Quantrix Modeler, be sure to visit our support area at > www.quantrix.com. This is your personal Command Center for access to a > wide range of resources developed specifically to assure that your > experience with the Quantrix Modeler is as satisfying as possible. > > Faster insight through Dynamic Modeling is just a few clicks away. > Download the free trial or order the Quantrix Modeler 1.0 today at > www.quantrix.com. > > Powerful in its abilities. Elegant in its simplicity. Quantrix has > arrived. > > The Quantrix Team > info@quantrix.com > 207.775.0808 From henry at trilithon.com Thu Nov 6 18:43:07 2003 From: henry at trilithon.com (Henry McGilton) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Why Does My System Not See The Airport Base Station --- Solved In-Reply-To: <938AC1C0-109C-11D8-93B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <83AC425A-10CA-11D8-BB1E-0003935952E2@trilithon.com> > On 6 Nov 2003, at 19:59, Henry McGilton wrote: > >> Wednesday evening, having come back home and set up my laptop, >> the G4 deskside system no longer sees the Airport Base Station. > <<<< snip >>>> Thanks to Malcolm, who advised plugging the Ethernet cable into the WAN socket rather than the LAN socket . . . Updating the Base Station firmware was Good Idea, as well. Best Wishes to All, ........ Henry ===============================+============================ Henry McGilton, Boulevardier | Trilithon Software Objective-C/Java Composer | Seroia Research -------------------------------+---------------------------- mailto:henry@trilithon.com | http://www.trilithon.com | ===============================+============================ From mmalc_lists at mac.com Thu Nov 6 18:45:13 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 5:20 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: >> And to repeat: that's exactly what we have. > No we don't. > Yes, we do. The OS is hardware-agnostic. It's the principle that's important -- recall Jobs, "We like options..." > Apple doesn't sell OS X that runs on Intel machines. > Indeed, it's even better than that -- they *give it away*! > We don't have ISVs writing to a single Apple API that runs on both > platforms. > Yes, we do. mmalc From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 6 18:58:09 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: <901CB776-0EEC-11D8-978D-000A95913626@n9yty.com> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <901CB776-0EEC-11D8-978D-000A95913626@n9yty.com> Message-ID: <6B0C28D2-0F61-11D8-8445-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 04 Nov 2003, at 10:30, Steven Palm wrote: > Just a note that I finally released my plugin that does just this... > And a few other minor things. > > Search VersionTracker for MailEnhancer, or use the direct page: > > http://home.insightbb.com/~n9yty1/MailEnhancer/ "If you have a signature with the name set to your email address, then it will use that signature when you send from that address. While composing a message, if you change your email address, MailEnhancer will change the signature to match (if one exists). However, if you manually change the signature to something that does not match, MailEnhancer will not override your choice (for this email) unless you put it back to one that matches your current email address, and then it will continue to keep them in sync. This might sound complicated, perhaps, but I think you will find it intuitive once you start to use it." Nice! > I'm giving this away for free, so no whining about it. ;-) What? That makes no sense. We on this list whine most abou the free stuff (Mail, preview, Finder, etc). You don't hear us bitching about the Stupidity of a certain Quack 6 'feature', right? -- "Here comes sunrise. Yeah, here's your sunrise. I used to hide from the sun, tried to live my whole life underground, why'd you have to rise and ruin all my fun? Just turn over; close the curtains on the day." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031106/60b4e2d3/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 6 18:58:27 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: <901CB776-0EEC-11D8-978D-000A95913626@n9yty.com> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <901CB776-0EEC-11D8-978D-000A95913626@n9yty.com> Message-ID: On 04 Nov 2003, at 10:30, Steven Palm wrote: > I'm giving this away for free, so no whining about it. ;-) Woah! it says 18,865 unread messages. Wow. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031106/a2b3f8c0/smime.bin From nadeama2 at videotron.ca Thu Nov 6 18:59:12 2003 From: nadeama2 at videotron.ca (Martin Nadeau) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Little Panther annoyances In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 04, 2003, at 00:23, Jim Witte wrote: >> - Dragging items to and from the Desktop seems quite a bit slower >> than before. For example, when dragging a file from the Desktop to >> the Trash, there is a one second delay before the file disappears >> from the Desktop (is anybody else seeing this?). > > I notice this too (800Mhz G3 iBook, 384MB). What's odd is that I > notice it when dragging *to* the desktop, but not when dragging *from* > the desktop. It doesn't seem to happen with other folders in icon > view, even ones that have a lot of icons in them. I see it both when dragging to and from the Desktop. >> - The animation when scrolling a window by dragging the scrollbar >> doesn't seem nearly as "smooth" as before. There is a kind of jerky, >> or rather "wavy" effect (it's a bit hard to describe). > > I haven't noticed this. I wonder if it could have something to do > with the multiple processors (I assume that's what the MDD stands for) > and something to do with the way the scheduler works? Just a very > very long-shot. It could be. I've just re-installed Panther (clean install), and the problem is still there, so there's definitely a bug. >> - In Mail, the "Get New Mail" toolbar button now gets new mail in all >> accounts, even if the > > It would be nice if the different Mail accounts in the Mailbox pane > had a little "Get Mail" icon like the "Eject" icon next to the drive > names. Very good idea! -- Martin Nadeau From nadeama2 at videotron.ca Thu Nov 6 19:01:17 2003 From: nadeama2 at videotron.ca (Martin Nadeau) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Little Panther annoyances In-Reply-To: <19F7BD4A-0EE2-11D8-B114-000A9586BA18@mac.com> References: <77CBF8BC-0E7C-11D8-93B0-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <19F7BD4A-0EE2-11D8-B114-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: <115D98CD-0F63-11D8-8FAC-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> On Nov 04, 2003, at 11:15, Patrick Coskren wrote: > On Nov 3, 2003, at 11:07 PM, Martin Nadeau wrote: > >> On 03 Nov 2003, at 02:59, Martin Nadeau wrote: >>> - The animation when scrolling a window by dragging the scrollbar >>> doesn't seem nearly as "smooth" as before. There is a kind of jerky, >>> or rather "wavy" effect (it's a bit hard to describe). In fact, it >>> looks a little like scrolling in OS 9 with hardware acceleration >>> extensions turned off. It doesn't happen all the time, but often. >>> Does anyone else see this? Maybe it's related to computer and video >>> card models? I have a G4 MDD with a Radeon 9000 Pro. > > I'll bet you have "smooth scrolling" turned on in the Appearance > control panel. For some reason, I found it made scrolling *less* > smooth; it looked like the app and the OS might be fighting over > proper positioning. I turned it off yesterday and haven't noticed the > problem since. Hi Patrick, It doesn't seem to matter if Smooth Scrolling is turned on or off, I see the problem anyway. I've just done a new clean install of Panther just to be sure and the problem is still there. I'll file it as a bug tomorrow. -- Martin Nadeau From bronski at bronski.net Thu Nov 6 19:02:09 2003 From: bronski at bronski.net (Christoph Rummel) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: ; from steve@paper-ape.com on Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 12:48:36PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20031105085623.B7488@bronski.net> steve harley (2003-11-04 12:48:36 -0700): > at 20031030, 16:43 +0100, they whom i call mark wrote: > >Anyone seeing app crashes when using contextual menus ? I'm getting > >occasional crashes in Safari, Mail, Address Book and iCal when doing > >CM operations. > > i saw a note in yesterday's MacInTouch Panther report that > reinstalling Stuffit Expander fixed CM problems for a couple > of people.. no idea why.. worth a try That was a good one! No crashes so far. :-) Chris From glennc at mac.com Thu Nov 6 19:03:10 2003 From: glennc at mac.com (Glenn Carnagey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: <643CBF80-0DEA-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <886CBE31-0F68-11D8-9078-000393A7795C@mac.com> it does. (I'm in Seattle on biz right now, practically across the street from the Starbux bldg in SoDo). Seattle area Borders also has the T-mobile hotspots. You can sign up there, or do pay-as-you-go, or a cheap trial. And I would be really shocked if Seattle didn't have more Starbucks per sq ft than any other city, including Manhattan -- Seattle is the mothership. :-) I'm from Austin, where Wayport is based, they have not gotten to wiring the Seattle McDonalds yet. They are just testing the waters in SF and a few others as yet. g./ On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:08 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 3:00 AM, Jes?s D?az wrote: > >> Starbucks. They have a WiFi guide in their site, me thinks. I am sure >> Seattle has plenty of locations (not as much as Manhattan, but >> plenty). Kevin will be able to help you there, since he's located >> around there. > > In California, Starbucks uses T-Mobile hotspots. I assume the same > applies in Seattle, but don't know for sure. You'll need an account to > use it. You might be able to sign up at Starbucks, but probably easier > to do it beforehand. > > http://www.t-mobile.com/hotspot/ > > I've also seen them at Borders. > > > - Scott > > > -- > Tree House Ideas > http://treehouseideas.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Nov 6 19:24:20 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <103996AA-10D0-11D8-A162-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 7:34 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote (Quoting d*g): >> We don't have ISVs writing to a single Apple API that runs on both >> platforms. >> > Yes, we do. > And before Mr Gaters chimes in with more blathering nonsense, I will even peremptorily name one: WebObjects. I run it on FreeBSD on Athlons. Will soon (like tomorrow) have a dual Athlon 2800MP+ system with Linux :-( running to support my WebObjects customers too. Chad ----------- Inexpensive WebObjects hosting -- www.shire.net From alexfuller at mac.com Thu Nov 6 19:35:36 2003 From: alexfuller at mac.com (Alex Fuller) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Outlook. Should. Be. Shot In-Reply-To: <9C3A8530-0EB6-11D8-8450-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <9C3A8530-0EB6-11D8-8450-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 4 Nov 2003, at 11:04 am, Matt wrote: > > So, you're an Outlook 4.5 user and you want to move to Mac OS X. For > some reason Mail won't import all of the Outlook 4.5 files so you do a > backup and move to Outlook 5.02 just to make sure it's not that. Of > course, Outlook 5.02 refuses to import the Outlook 4.5 files as well > so what do you do with 83 MB of mail files that Outlook refuses to do > anything with and Mail just gives you the knowing look that says > "Well, you DID use Outlook..." > > So...eudora has worked in the past as a way to get email moved from > Outlook but due to the excellence that is Outlooks proprietary format, > it's unable to get all of it. > > Colour me utterly disgusted. > > I'm feeling very hostile towards anyone who has anything to do with > that sonofabitch company. > > BEWARE: Stay away from Outlook, Entourage and Microsoft!!!!!!!!!! Don't know why you're including Entourage in that list, but Outlook for Windows is a true PITA. Its IMAP implementation is pants - constant error messages that the server has disconnected, and the only way it handles deleting messages that I can find is to mark a message as deleted without moving it (shows as strikethrough in the list) so that your inbox remains cluttered until the user goes to the trouble of asking Outlook to "Purge" deleted messages at which point they are deleted. Why can't it move them to a designated "Deleted" folder like every other mail client on the plant (and as it does for POP & Exchange servers of course)? Windows Outlook also manages to have problems collecting larger messages via POP from Cyrus in my experience - an experience which may become a lot more widespread now that it is the mailserver for OS X Server. It hangs forever collecting the message and seems to leave the POP box permanently locked until manually cleared... anyone else seen that? Alex From dave at difference.com.au Thu Nov 6 20:30:57 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: At 4:56 PM -0800 6/11/03, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >On Nov 6, 2003, at 4:19 PM, Jason Kamen wrote: > >>>why would Rhapsody be any different? >>"I had in mind a hardware-agnostic operating system. That's what Rhapsody >>was all about," said Amelio in a recent interview on CNET Radio. >> >And to repeat: that's exactly what we have. Mac OS X only runs on Apple hardware - its Darwin thats platform agnostic. That's significantly different to the Rhapsody era plans, not just in strategy but in what we end up with. Kind of like saying "I'm agnostic, but I'd never live in a country that wasn't catholic". >At 6:34 PM -0800 6/11/03, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >>We don't have ISVs writing to a single Apple API that runs on both platforms. >> >Yes, we do. And while Dan is technically wrong, mmalc is being sneaky because he knows perfectly well that the APIs in question are utterly different, not just specifics but in level of application, usage, etc. Its not like I feel a great urge to support Dan... but this definitely seems to be like one of those things where both sides are wrong and making themselves wronger by trying to prove themselves right. Rhapsody was a strategy AND a collection of products AND a collection of technologies. We have now most of those technologies (but not all), some of those products (definitely not all) and a very different strategy. And claiming that if we have access to the same technology but the strategy is utterly different then the change in strategy doesn't matter is pretty dubious. I just don't believe that people are really that ingenuous or naive. Think about what the difference in strategy did to Yellow Box for Windows when Apple was still actually selling and supplying it - but not licencing it for deployment, only supporting it as part of WebObjects. Rhapsody was both a product and a strategy, and trying to claim that it was one or the other is pointless, even trying to claim that one usage was more important than the other is a matter of theological opinion, a debate for which there CAN be no "right" answer. Cheers David (who still wears is Rhapsody Developer t-shirt to developer gatherings with heavy irony) From nadeama2 at videotron.ca Thu Nov 6 20:47:49 2003 From: nadeama2 at videotron.ca (Martin Nadeau) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Mail column positions not remembered in Panther? Message-ID: <8E933273-10DB-11D8-840C-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Hi, I've mentioned this in another message but possibly a lot of you have missed it. I'd really like to know if I'm the only one who's Mail application is not remembering its column sizes and positions in the Viewer window? This seems to be happening after I go to certain mailboxes (particularly ones that I've manually created, and also it would seem the Trash for my .Mac account). When I then go back to my Inbox, the column's width and positions have changed (especially apparent with the rightmost column). Anyone else seeing this? I've tried deleting Mails prefs, and also deleting all my mailboxes and creating new ones (a rather long process). I thought it had fixed it at first, but now the problem is back. Any clues as to what else I could try? This is really annoying me a little. -- Martin Nadeau From mmalc_lists at mac.com Thu Nov 6 20:58:04 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 8:23 PM, David Cake wrote: > At 4:56 PM -0800 6/11/03, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >> On Nov 6, 2003, at 4:19 PM, Jason Kamen wrote: >>>> why would Rhapsody be any different? >>> "I had in mind a hardware-agnostic operating system. That's what >>> Rhapsody >>> was all about," said Amelio in a recent interview on CNET Radio. >> And to repeat: that's exactly what we have. > Mac OS X only runs on Apple hardware - its Darwin thats platform > agnostic. That's significantly different to the Rhapsody era plans, > not just in strategy but in what we end up with. > Kind of like saying "I'm agnostic, but I'd never live in a country > that wasn't catholic". > No, not at all. The OS remains platform agnostic. >> At 6:34 PM -0800 6/11/03, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >>> We don't have ISVs writing to a single Apple API that runs on both >>> platforms. >> Yes, we do. > And while Dan is technically wrong, mmalc is being sneaky because he > knows perfectly well that the APIs in question are utterly different, > not just specifics but in level of application, usage, etc. Sneaky isn't wrong. > Its not like I feel a great urge to support Dan... but this > definitely seems to be like one of those things where both sides are > wrong and making themselves wronger by trying to prove themselves > right. > I'm simply proving Jason wrong. > [...] Rhapsody was both a product and a strategy, and trying to claim > that it was one or the other is pointless, even trying to claim that > one usage was more important than the other is a matter of theological > opinion, a debate for which there CAN be no "right" answer. > I never claimed anything about the strategy, I just disproved Jason's claim about the OS. mmalc From matthew at wocwa.com Thu Nov 6 20:58:47 2003 From: matthew at wocwa.com (Matthew Healey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: They'll rue the day they abandoned the Mac In-Reply-To: <4B6B93C5-10B3-11D8-93B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <7BB0C6DB-10DE-11D8-9B47-000A957C032C@wocwa.com> On Friday, November 7, 2003, at 07:45 AM, Matt wrote: > > On 6 Nov 2003, at 22:54, Thomas Vincent wrote: > >> MS has been talking about Sparkle for years. Just because MS releases >> something doesn't make it a standard. > > Oh Thomas, you used to be so cynical... > >> Good solid technology still can beat it. Look at PDF. PDF has >> overtaken .doc to become the defacto standard for the transmission of >> documents across organizations. > > Well, maybe between organisations but not across internally. > > I mean...even Apple uses Excel which kills the notion that there might > be a Keynote-inspired Excel killer in there... Of course they use Excel! They wouldn't start using their own software until it was ready to be released... less leakage! How many people had heard of Keynote until it was released. Only steve and the developers knew about that one. - Matt From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Nov 6 21:12:01 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 9:23 PM, David Cake wrote: > Rhapsody was both a product and a strategy, and trying to claim that > it was one or the other is pointless, even trying to claim that one > usage was more important than the other is a matter of theological > opinion, a debate for which there CAN be no "right" answer. yes and no. In the big scheme of things you are right, but in this particular case wrong, as this discussion got started in talking about Rhapsody, meaning the product, and that it is still with us evolved into OS X. That is true. Dan was trying to say that Rhapsody wasn't still with us because it was a strategy. Well, in this context that is wrong. Chad From dave at difference.com.au Thu Nov 6 21:26:11 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: At 8:52 PM -0800 6/11/03, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >On Nov 6, 2003, at 8:23 PM, David Cake wrote: >>At 4:56 PM -0800 6/11/03, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >>>On Nov 6, 2003, at 4:19 PM, Jason Kamen wrote: >>>>>why would Rhapsody be any different? >>>>"I had in mind a hardware-agnostic operating system. That's what Rhapsody >>>>was all about," said Amelio in a recent interview on CNET Radio. >>>And to repeat: that's exactly what we have. >> Mac OS X only runs on Apple hardware - its Darwin thats >>platform agnostic. That's significantly different to the Rhapsody >>era plans, not just in strategy but in what we end up with. >> Kind of like saying "I'm agnostic, but I'd never live in a >>country that wasn't catholic". >> >No, not at all. The OS remains platform agnostic. > Except for all the bits that aren't. You can't really claim the OS is platform agnostic except by claiming that Quartz, Aqua, Cocoa etc are platform agnostic, or not parts of the OS. Which would score some points, but I wouldn't say it was actually proving yourself more correct. >> Its not like I feel a great urge to support Dan... but this >>definitely seems to be like one of those things where both sides >>are wrong and making themselves wronger by trying to prove >>themselves right. >> >I'm simply proving Jason wrong. You seem to be proving both of you wrong. Cheers David From dave at difference.com.au Thu Nov 6 21:30:18 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: At 9:56 PM -0700 6/11/03, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >On Nov 6, 2003, at 9:23 PM, David Cake wrote: > >> Rhapsody was both a product and a strategy, and trying to >>claim that it was one or the other is pointless, even trying to >>claim that one usage was more important than the other is a matter >>of theological opinion, a debate for which there CAN be no "right" >>answer. > >yes and no. In the big scheme of things you are right, but in this >particular case wrong, as this discussion got started in talking >about Rhapsody, meaning the product, and that it is still with us >evolved into OS X. That is true. Dan was trying to say that >Rhapsody wasn't still with us because it was a strategy. Well, in >this context that is wrong. Actually, I'd say that was pretty much my point with a different spin - the things people are saying make sense only in the context of proving each other wrong, rather than actually being true. I don't particularly think this should be encouraged. Cheers David From mmalc_lists at mac.com Thu Nov 6 21:30:52 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 9:09 PM, David Cake wrote: >> No, not at all. The OS remains platform agnostic. > Except for all the bits that aren't. > You can't really claim the OS is platform agnostic except by claiming > that Quartz, Aqua, Cocoa etc are platform agnostic, or not parts of > the OS. Which would score some points, but I wouldn't say it was > actually proving yourself more correct. > I can claim either of those or both, and I would still be correct. mmalc From lngtones at mac.com Thu Nov 6 21:34:00 2003 From: lngtones at mac.com (Phil Larson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: OS X On Intel Message-ID: <3A1E3C8A-10E2-11D8-B55D-0003937234CE@mac.com> How's this for fueling the fire: http://news.com.com/2100-1045_3-5103279.html Phil From mmalc_lists at mac.com Thu Nov 6 21:47:33 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: OS X On Intel In-Reply-To: <3A1E3C8A-10E2-11D8-B55D-0003937234CE@mac.com> References: <3A1E3C8A-10E2-11D8-B55D-0003937234CE@mac.com> Message-ID: <7A00F4FB-10E4-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 9:21 PM, Phil Larson wrote: > How's this for fueling the fire: > http://news.com.com/2100-1045_3-5103279.html > Aw, you stole my punchline... :-) mmalc From kcall at mac.com Thu Nov 6 22:30:00 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <34EA5AA4-10EA-11D8-A829-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 9:17 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > > On Nov 6, 2003, at 9:09 PM, David Cake wrote: > >>> No, not at all. The OS remains platform agnostic. >> Except for all the bits that aren't. >> You can't really claim the OS is platform agnostic except by >> claiming that Quartz, Aqua, Cocoa etc are platform agnostic, or not >> parts of the OS. Which would score some points, but I wouldn't say it >> was actually proving yourself more correct. >> > I can claim either of those or both, and I would still be correct. > > mmalc I currently think Apple currently ships a platform-agnostic OS on PPC . - Wingagorn From mark at imap-partners.net Thu Nov 6 22:33:17 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Outlook. Should. Be. Shot In-Reply-To: References: <9C3A8530-0EB6-11D8-8450-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <1C6584E8-10EB-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> On 5 Nov 2003, at 10:01, Alex Fuller wrote: > ...the only way it handles deleting messages that I can find is to > mark a message as deleted without moving it (shows as strikethrough in > the list) so that your inbox remains cluttered until the user goes to > the trouble of asking Outlook to "Purge" deleted messages at which > point they are deleted... not wishing to defend the dreadful Lookout, but this is "proper" IMAP behaviour. Many clients and some servers enable a trash folder and the moving of "messages marked for deletion" to it. In Mail, I mark for deletion (but have messages marked for deletion hidden by default) rather than moving to the trash. This has advantages. mark. From mark at imap-partners.net Thu Nov 6 22:40:41 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4 Nov 2003, at 20:48, steve harley wrote: > i saw a note in yesterday's MacInTouch Panther report that > reinstalling Stuffit Expander fixed CM problems for a couple > of people.. no idea why.. worth a try nope, sadly not the culprit for me. Pity, would have liked to blame it on Aladdin. mark. From kcall at mac.com Thu Nov 6 22:47:29 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <6393FA36-10EC-11D8-A829-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> On Nov 6, 2003, at 9:17 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > > On Nov 6, 2003, at 9:09 PM, David Cake wrote: > >>> No, not at all. The OS remains platform agnostic. >> Except for all the bits that aren't. >> You can't really claim the OS is platform agnostic except by >> claiming that Quartz, Aqua, Cocoa etc are platform agnostic, or not >> parts of the OS. Which would score some points, but I wouldn't say it >> was actually proving yourself more correct. >> > I can claim either of those or both, and I would still be correct. > > mmalc mmalc is correct. K From steve at union.arizona.edu Thu Nov 6 23:00:22 2003 From: steve at union.arizona.edu (steve stout) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Mail column positions not remembered in Panther? In-Reply-To: <8E933273-10DB-11D8-840C-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <8E933273-10DB-11D8-840C-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <006C7811-10EE-11D8-8E6A-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> It has to do with whether or not you have "Organize by Thread" turned on. If you view one folder with it on, then move to another with it off it messes up the columns. It's a bug, but you can work around it by setting all your folders to have the same "Organize by Thread" setting. ./steve On Nov 6, 2003, at 9:33 PM, Martin Nadeau wrote: > Hi, > > I've mentioned this in another message but possibly a lot of you have > missed it. I'd really like to know if I'm the only one who's Mail > application is not remembering its column sizes and positions in the > Viewer window? This seems to be happening after I go to certain > mailboxes (particularly ones that I've manually created, and also it > would seem the Trash for my .Mac account). When I then go back to my > Inbox, the column's width and positions have changed (especially > apparent with the rightmost column). > > Anyone else seeing this? I've tried deleting Mails prefs, and also > deleting all my mailboxes and creating new ones (a rather long > process). I thought it had fixed it at first, but now the problem is > back. > > Any clues as to what else I could try? This is really annoying me a > little. > > -- > Martin Nadeau > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From bronski at bronski.net Thu Nov 6 23:19:44 2003 From: bronski at bronski.net (Christoph Rummel) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: ; from mark@imap-partners.net on Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 10:37:14AM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20031107080452.A13693@bronski.net> mark (2003-11-05 10:37:14 +0100): > > i saw a note in yesterday's MacInTouch Panther report that > > reinstalling Stuffit Expander fixed CM problems for a couple > > of people.. no idea why.. worth a try > > nope, sadly not the culprit for me. Pity, would have > liked to blame it on Aladdin. Reinstalling StuffIt alone didn't do the job. I had to remove some CMs from /Library/Contextual Menues and ~/Library/Contextual Menues too. After that there waere no crashes any more. Chris From nadeama2 at videotron.ca Thu Nov 6 23:35:08 2003 From: nadeama2 at videotron.ca (Martin Nadeau) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Mail column positions not remembered in Panther? In-Reply-To: <006C7811-10EE-11D8-8E6A-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> References: <8E933273-10DB-11D8-840C-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <006C7811-10EE-11D8-8E6A-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> Message-ID: On Nov 07, 2003, at 01:45, steve stout wrote: > It has to do with whether or not you have "Organize by Thread" turned > on. If you view one folder with it on, then move to another with it > off it messes up the columns. It's a bug, but you can work around it > by setting all your folders to have the same "Organize by Thread" > setting. Thank you Steve! This has been puzzling me and I really didn't make the connection with the threading feature. Nice to know. -- Martin Nadeau From charlesd at newsguy.com Thu Nov 6 23:45:28 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: FireWire 800 & Panther Message-ID: from the Oxford web site: It seems that if you're having a problem with FW 400 drives, it ain't _this_ problem, and it may/may not be purely co-incidence that it started when you updated your OS. Note: Buried _deep_ in some reports is some mention of _newer_ 911 chipsets, which, unlike older ones, support large (bigger than 128 GB) drives, having the same problems as the early 922 chipsets, for the same reasons. If you have a drive using one of those chipsets I'd recommend that you have a chat with Oxford. Right now. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 6 23:50:17 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Panther Mail Threading: disappointed In-Reply-To: References: <76781AC6-089C-11D8-A5EA-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <614D2462-104C-11D8-B947-000393D72954@mac.com> <8CC8A01F-10A3-11D8-8D77-003065AB9B0E@kreme.com> Message-ID: <340E3CD2-10F5-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 06 Nov 2003, at 16:24, steve harley wrote: > at 20031106, 14:52 -0700, they whom i call LuKreme wrote: >> There is still, AFAICT, no way to select a mailbox via the keyboard. >> Damnit. > > i posted this last month, and assume it still works for > Panther Mail.. modify as desired and assign to a shortcut: > > tell application "Mail" > set selected mailboxes of message viewer 1 to {mailbox "applescript > users"} > end tell I have over 150 active mailboxes, and at least double that many inactive backup mailboxes that I occasionally access. That script solution is simply not feasible, especially when new mailboxes are created by my procmail recipes, sometimes on a daily basis. I was hoping Panther had a hierarchical mailbox listing in the menus. In fact, I would have sworn I was told it did/would. Sigh. -- MEGAHAL: within my penguin lies a torrid story of hate and love. From mark at imap-partners.net Thu Nov 6 23:52:09 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: <20031107080452.A13693@bronski.net> References: <20031107080452.A13693@bronski.net> Message-ID: <6B86B61A-10F5-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> On 7 Nov 2003, at 8:04, Christoph Rummel wrote: > Reinstalling StuffIt alone didn't do the job. I had to > remove some CMs from /Library/Contextual Menues and > ~/Library/Contextual Menues too. After that there waere > no crashes any more. which did you remove ? I have also done this (re-installed Stuffit and removed certain CMs). My crashes have also disappeared, but I haven't gotten round to singling out a culprit from the group I "disabled": Alfred CM Bare Bone Open With BigCat CalculateSizeCM iTermHere CM NotebookCMPlugin NoteTakerCMPlugin OpenSubfolder QuickImageCM XRay Contextual Menu If any of these are on your "disabled" list. I'll start there. mark. From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 6 23:56:33 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: OS X On Intel In-Reply-To: <3A1E3C8A-10E2-11D8-B55D-0003937234CE@mac.com> References: <3A1E3C8A-10E2-11D8-B55D-0003937234CE@mac.com> Message-ID: <15986EA6-10F6-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 06 Nov 2003, at 22:21, Phil Larson wrote: > How's this for fueling the fire: > > http://news.com.com/2100-1045_3-5103279.html "Jobs said that video recording is processor intensive and is best left to a device that is not doing other things such as playing games or running spreadsheets. "When I want to record 'The West Wing,' I want to make damn sure it records 'The West Wing,'" he said." Very nice. Couldn't agree more. -- Do you believe that there's someone up above, and does he have a timetable directing acts of love? From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 6 23:58:18 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031106234040.GB6539@Dark-Age.local> References: <945126EA-104F-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <20031106234040.GB6539@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <5424B92C-10F6-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 06 Nov 2003, at 16:40, Eugene Lee wrote: > (wondering if Dan Gaters == Jason Kamen) That's been proved with sufficient evidence to "convict OJ." -- Well I've seen the Heart of Darkness/Read the writing on the wall/and the voice out in the desert/Was the voice out in the hall From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 6 23:59:54 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <193F377E-10B4-11D8-93B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <193F377E-10B4-11D8-93B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <83FED0E5-10F6-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 06 Nov 2003, at 16:51, Matt wrote: > Eat me, Dan. Misspelt Jason, HTH. -- and I swear it happened just like this: / a sigh, a cry, a hungry kiss / the Gates of Love they budged an inch / I can't say much has happened since / but CLOSING TIME From jared at 23x.net Fri Nov 7 00:00:19 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: They'll rue the day they abandoned the Mac In-Reply-To: <2B4182F3-10AC-11D8-973F-003065C4548E@mac.com> References: <2B4182F3-10AC-11D8-973F-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <87D5C3BF-10F6-11D8-9D0C-000A958F180A@23x.net> On 6 Nov 2003, at 23:54, Thomas Vincent wrote: > Look at PDF. PDF has overtaken .doc to become the defacto standard for > the transmission of documents across organizations. It has? Damn, then I can send recruiters my CV as a PDF now? -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "Watashi-wa shin no SUPORUKU desu" From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 7 00:19:04 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7 Nov 2003, at 00:19, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc." wrote: > >> why would Rhapsody be any different? > > "I had in mind a hardware-agnostic operating system. That's what > Rhapsody > was all about," said Amelio in a recent interview on CNET Radio. > > For starters, no other Apple OS had that as a goal So? It's a bullet point on a slide. > or required ISVs to rewrite their apps to such an extent. You ever used a Mac? I'm sure the Apple II developers probably disagree. M -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 7 00:19:17 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:15 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7 Nov 2003, at 01:20, Dan Gaters wrote: > "mmalcolm crawford" wrote: > >> And to repeat: that's exactly what we have. > > No we don't. Apple doesn't sell OS X that runs on Intel machines. Goal-post shifting. We have Darwin for PPC and x86. Apple doesn't sell it but that isn't necessary. > We don't have ISVs writing to a single Apple API that runs on both > platforms. Well, GNU-Darwin would disagree. -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 7 00:21:21 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:16 2005 Subject: Outlook. Should. Be. Shot In-Reply-To: References: <9C3A8530-0EB6-11D8-8450-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <5ACFF90A-10F9-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 5 Nov 2003, at 09:01, Alex Fuller wrote: >> BEWARE: Stay away from Outlook, Entourage and Microsoft!!!!!!!!!! > > Don't know why you're including Entourage in that list, ... Well, because to get the messages and contact details out of Outlook, I had to go through the tortures of the damned including two instances of Eudora. I'm thoroughly pissed off. From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 7 00:22:15 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:16 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <931E8C70-10F9-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 7 Nov 2003, at 04:23, David Cake wrote: > Its not like I feel a great urge to support Dan... but this > definitely seems to be like one of those things where both sides are > wrong and making themselves wronger by trying to prove themselves > right. So, this all started from the question: Do we still have Rhapsody? So, David, do we? From cjacobs at mac.com Fri Nov 7 00:23:24 2003 From: cjacobs at mac.com (Charles Jacobs) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:16 2005 Subject: Printing in Mail.app uses HUGE font In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hm. I've just noticed I have this problem too, and I did a clean install of Panther. Annoying! --chuck On Nov 6, 2003, at 12:59 PM, Matt Penna wrote: > At 2:46 PM -0500 11/6/03, Gregg Dinse wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I just installed 10.3 (Panther) on my new G5. Since the upgrade, >> when I print an email, it uses a huge font, like maybe 48 pt or >> something! How do I change this? Under the Fonts & Colors >> preference in Mail.app, the font sizes in the 3 boxes are 12, 14, and >> 14. I think this is the same as I had under Jaguar. Why is the font >> so large now? How do I control the font size for a printed email? >> It doesn't seem to be a general printing problem, since I printed >> something from TextEdit and all seemed fine. >> > > Gregg, > > I have not experienced this problem myself, but there are reports of a > bug in the Panther upgrade installer. Apparently - and only during an > upgrade install - the installer fails to invoke an Applescript that > creates a couple of new users that are a part of the printing system. > If you repair permissions on the disk, the fact the users are missing > causes strange things to happen during the repair and it ends up > damaging the printing system. > > It's explained in a little more detail here: > http://www.allosx.com/1067395661/index_html > > I haven't tried the fix they have posted, so use it at your own risk. > (I did an upgrade install on my sister's iMac, so maybe I'll be trying > this out myself!) > > Good luck! > > Matt > -- > Matt Penna mdp1261@rit.edu > ICQ: 399825 Yahoo! Messenger: mdp1261 AIM: S0ba > "The trouble with computers, of course, is > that they're very sophisticated idiots." -Dr. Who > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 7 00:25:28 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:16 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <192EC57A-10FA-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 06 Nov 2003, at 22:09, David Cake wrote: > You can't really claim the OS is platform agnostic except by claiming > that Quartz, Aqua, Cocoa etc are platform agnostic, or not parts of > the OS. Which would score some points, but I wouldn't say it was > actually proving yourself more correct. But they are platform agnostic. Totally. Apple could release OS X 10.3 for x86 chips tomorrow. Well, ok, in a couple of months for testing purposes. Maybe some more time to add some more drivers to the driver database, but probably not since most those drivers exist in BSDland. -- This above all, to thine own self be true And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man. From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 7 00:38:35 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:16 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" Message-ID: <4DC837AC-10FC-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> http://www.jimdalrymple.com/Reviews-index-req-showcontent-id-6.html "As a longtime graphic designer, I have been around the block more than once with font utility applications. Apple's newest operating system offers a font utility that may not have as many features as some of the competing standalone applications do, but it certainly gives the competition a run for their money." "Having now spent the better part of a solid week experimenting and learning some of the "peculiarities" of Font Book, I believe I have found an adequate replacement for my long time favorite font management software." "As a first release, I must applaud Apple for providing such a reliable and powerful font management application built into this amazing OS named Panther. I only hope Apple keeps up development on an already very good application." -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From kcall at mac.com Fri Nov 7 00:47:05 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:16 2005 Subject: CHUD Hardware Pane Message-ID: <0CD41419-0FD6-11D8-8611-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> Why does the CHUD Hardware Pane keep turning my L2 cache off ? K From johannes at connected.ch Fri Nov 7 00:47:17 2003 From: johannes at connected.ch (Johannes Vetsch) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:16 2005 Subject: (update) firewire 800 drives & panther: not good buds In-Reply-To: <116B3B9F-0E38-11D8-A6DB-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <71F4EC83-0FD6-11D8-B872-000393764C26@connected.ch> Am Montag, 03.11.03 um 20:58 Uhr schrieb Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.: snipped... > There was a note on one of the news sites that the bug is not just an > Oxford 922 bug, but also in later revs of the Oxford 911 chips and not > just in Panther... This is what I read somewhere, I don't have more > details. But it gives you a start in googling... > > Chad thanks, for any ownwers of external FW Hard Drives Apple has posted the links to the different manufacturers in question having the affected 922/911 Oxford chip sets. http://www.apple.com/macosx/firewire800specialmessage.html As far as the LaCie updater (released today) they are standalone and autodetecting. regards johannes > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From mark at imap-partners.net Fri Nov 7 01:06:12 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:16 2005 Subject: CHUD Hardware Pane In-Reply-To: <0CD41419-0FD6-11D8-8611-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> References: <0CD41419-0FD6-11D8-8611-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> Message-ID: <8DD106AE-10FF-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> On 5 Nov 2003, at 22:21, Kevin Callahan wrote: > Why does the CHUD Hardware Pane keep turning my L2 cache off ? You sure it really is off ? I think I read somewhere that for some machine configs the pane shows it being off even although it is on and that it gets reset to this "off view" with reboots. But I got 3.5 hours sleep last night, so I may well be raving. mark. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Fri Nov 7 01:55:47 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:16 2005 Subject: OS X On Intel In-Reply-To: <7A00F4FB-10E4-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <3A1E3C8A-10E2-11D8-B55D-0003937234CE@mac.com> <7A00F4FB-10E4-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <93E7B5D6-1106-11D8-8C00-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> >> How's this for fueling the fire: >> http://news.com.com/2100-1045_3-5103279.html >> > Aw, you stole my punchline... :-) I thought your punchline was going to be "go and make some toasts". j. From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Nov 7 01:58:09 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:16 2005 Subject: They'll rue the day they abandoned the Mac In-Reply-To: <87D5C3BF-10F6-11D8-9D0C-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <2B4182F3-10AC-11D8-973F-003065C4548E@mac.com> <87D5C3BF-10F6-11D8-9D0C-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: On Nov 7, 2003, at 12:46 AM, Jared Earle wrote: > On 6 Nov 2003, at 23:54, Thomas Vincent wrote: >> Look at PDF. PDF has overtaken .doc to become the defacto standard >> for the transmission of documents across organizations. > > It has? Damn, then I can send recruiters my CV as a PDF now? > I do. If they complain I tell them I don't have a Windows box and I don't have Word and that I use industry standard formats like PDF and not proprietary formats like Word. They have all accommodated me. Chad From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Fri Nov 7 01:58:26 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <5424B92C-10F6-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <945126EA-104F-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <20031106234040.GB6539@Dark-Age.local> <5424B92C-10F6-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: El 07/11/2003, a las 8:45, Lukreme escribi?: > On 06 Nov 2003, at 16:40, Eugene Lee wrote: >> (wondering if Dan Gaters == Jason Kamen) > > That's been proved with sufficient evidence to "convict OJ." I am amazed that people still have doubts. j. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Fri Nov 7 01:58:56 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Mail.app white lists In-Reply-To: <44745E70-0EEC-11D8-898D-000393073BE6@apple.com> References: <44745E70-0EEC-11D8-898D-000393073BE6@apple.com> Message-ID: <7A912018-1107-11D8-8C00-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> > We added this because it only took 5 minutes of engineering time. ;) Tell that to the Finder engineers. j. From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Nov 7 02:00:05 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <192EC57A-10FA-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <192EC57A-10FA-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: One interesting snippet: I was just at distributed.net looking at the client platform stats and there is a listing for someone turning in blocks for RC5/72 with an x86 Rhapsody box... This is a new contest (well almost a year old) and the time span was August/sept 03. (It may be a darwin box as OS X is listed as PPC Rhapsody in the listings as well). There is also someone using PA-RISC NeXTStep it appears as well... Chad From steve at union.arizona.edu Fri Nov 7 02:33:11 2003 From: steve at union.arizona.edu (steve stout) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: <4DC837AC-10FC-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <4DC837AC-10FC-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <8B10C458-110D-11D8-A967-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> Not really.... Just for the fun of it I decided to load my 7500 fonts into it. After waiting a half hour I find out that it moved all the fonts from my nicely organized font folder to ~/Library/Fonts. grr. ./steve On Nov 7, 2003, at 1:28 AM, Matt wrote: > http://www.jimdalrymple.com/Reviews-index-req-showcontent-id-6.html > > "As a longtime graphic designer, I have been around the block more > than once with font utility applications. Apple's newest operating > system offers a font utility that may not have as many features as > some of the competing standalone applications do, but it certainly > gives the competition a run for their money." > > "Having now spent the better part of a solid week experimenting and > learning some of the "peculiarities" of Font Book, I believe I have > found an adequate replacement for my long time favorite font > management software." > > "As a first release, I must applaud Apple for providing such a > reliable and powerful font management application built into this > amazing OS named Panther. I only hope Apple keeps up development on an > already very good application." > > > > -- > Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 7 02:41:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: <8B10C458-110D-11D8-A967-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> References: <4DC837AC-10FC-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <8B10C458-110D-11D8-A967-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> Message-ID: On 7 Nov 2003, at 10:31, steve stout wrote: > Not really.... Just for the fun of it I decided to load my 7500 > fonts into it. After waiting a half hour I find out that it moved all > the fonts from my nicely organized font folder to ~/Library/Fonts. > grr. Might not be apparent but this is a review, an opinion, if you must. So "Not really" is just your opinion and doesn't invalidate Jim Dalrymple's opinion at all. M From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Fri Nov 7 02:48:01 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: <8B10C458-110D-11D8-A967-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> References: <4DC837AC-10FC-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <8B10C458-110D-11D8-A967-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <20031107104704.GE6539@Dark-Age.local> On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 03:31:27AM -0700, steve stout wrote: : : Not really.... Just for the fun of it I decided to load my 7500 fonts : into it. After waiting a half hour I find out that it moved all the : fonts from my nicely organized font folder to ~/Library/Fonts. grr. How were your fonts previously "nicely organized"? -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From bronski at bronski.net Fri Nov 7 03:22:09 2003 From: bronski at bronski.net (Christoph Rummel) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: <6B86B61A-10F5-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net>; from mark@imap-partners.net on Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 08:38:46AM +0100 References: <20031107080452.A13693@bronski.net> <6B86B61A-10F5-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: <20031107121944.A20393@bronski.net> mark (2003-11-07 08:38:46 +0100): > which did you remove ? I have also done this (re-installed Stuffit and > removed certain CMs). My crashes have also disappeared, but I haven't > gotten round to singling out a culprit from the group I "disabled": > > Alfred CM > Bare Bone Open With > BigCat > CalculateSizeCM > iTermHere CM > NotebookCMPlugin > NoteTakerCMPlugin > OpenSubfolder > QuickImageCM > XRay Contextual Menu > If any of these are on your "disabled" list. I'll start there. Only one: NotebookCMPlugin Chris From mark at imap-partners.net Fri Nov 7 03:24:04 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: <20031107121944.A20393@bronski.net> References: <20031107080452.A13693@bronski.net> <6B86B61A-10F5-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <20031107121944.A20393@bronski.net> Message-ID: On 7 Nov 2003, at 12:19, Christoph Rummel wrote: > Only one: NotebookCMPlugin OK, I'll stick the rest back in and see what happens. mark. From tschnitzer at mac.com Fri Nov 7 04:16:07 2003 From: tschnitzer at mac.com (Thomas Schnitzer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Mac OS X and portrait monitors Message-ID: <04140F18-111C-11D8-BA39-000393AE3644@mac.com> Hi all, recently a friend of mine decided to take a closer look at Mac OS X (he still uses Os 9.x). He uses two displays and one of them is a ViewSonic Pivot TFT display (or portrait display). On 9 he uses a software called "MacPortrait" from a company called Portrait Displays. Needless to say, it's not available for Mac OS X (and won't be according to their faq ). Does anybody use such a monitor with OS X? Or know about a software that allows to use such a beast? Thanks in advance, Thomas -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2365 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031107/62e2e97f/smime.bin From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 7 04:35:11 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Mac OS X and portrait monitors In-Reply-To: <04140F18-111C-11D8-BA39-000393AE3644@mac.com> References: <04140F18-111C-11D8-BA39-000393AE3644@mac.com> Message-ID: On 7 Nov 2003, at 12:15, Thomas Schnitzer wrote: > Does anybody use such a monitor with OS X? Or know about a software > that allows to use such a beast? The retail Radeon cards come with software to manage this AFAIK. http://robertgpatterson.com/techtipsfaq.html#anchor%23MPRT.1 ATI sells a retail version of its Radeon 9800 Pro graphics card that includes an option called VERSAVISION. A primary feature of VERSAVISION is that it allows screen rotation in OSX. However, the Apple-OEM version of Radeon 9800 (available on the Powermac G5 as a build-to-order option) does not support VERSAVISION. Apparently, VERSAVISION remains unavailable with the OEM card even if you use the drivers for the retail version. Even worse, the retail version has DVI/VGA ports rather than the ADC/DVI ports on the OEM version for the G5. According to Inside Mac Games, VERSAVISION exploits a feature of Quartz Extreme, which "makes [screen rotation] possible by treating the entire desktop as an OpenGL texture. The desktop can be transformed and manipulated while maintaining full 2D and 3D acceleration." This may mean that a solution for any Quartz Extreme-compatible graphics card could be forthcoming. As of now, though, ATI is clearly holding it back as an exclusive feature of the retail Radeon 9800 Mac Edition card. There was someone on the net somewhere complaining about wanting a bracket to hold his 22" Cinema Display safely on it's side. M From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 7 05:33:09 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: [Osx-nutters] Re: bbking.. In-Reply-To: <2B706744-1123-11D8-8C00-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> References: <555BBFFE-1066-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <3E385BAC-106E-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <010119BD-1070-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <3DF4B1DE-1071-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <16CADB32-1074-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <4EB4F6E6-107C-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <32551573-1085-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <50A972F5-1088-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <249B22CC-1089-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <7676D6AE-108A-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <3FAA9FAA.2070008@benatong.com> <380536AA-1105-11D8-A5F3-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> <1153A2DD-110A-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <91FB! EA3C-1! 121-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <2B706744-1123-11D8-8C00-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> Message-ID: On 7 Nov 2003, at 13:06, Jes?s D?az wrote: > Screw Ionesco. Let's write a play in Sherlock. > > ????????! ???????? ???! ????????? ?? ??????? ???????? How do we do a feature request for Mail/Services in that we can select some text and call a Service that uses the sherlock translation service? And it's vaguely a pain that Speech Services don't work in non-roman characters. M -- Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. From kcall at mac.com Fri Nov 7 05:40:04 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: CHUD Hardware Pane In-Reply-To: <0CD41419-0FD6-11D8-8611-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> References: <0CD41419-0FD6-11D8-8611-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 5, 2003, at 1:21 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > Why does the CHUD Hardware Pane keep turning my L2 cache off ? > > > K i posted this a couple of days ago .. just showing up to the list now .... i have since run the CHUD tools updater and all is fine. k > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From mark at imap-partners.net Fri Nov 7 05:43:07 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: [Osx-nutters] Re: bbking.. In-Reply-To: References: <555BBFFE-1066-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <3E385BAC-106E-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <010119BD-1070-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <3DF4B1DE-1071-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <16CADB32-1074-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <4EB4F6E6-107C-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <32551573-1085-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <50A972F5-1088-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <249B22CC-1089-11D8-9F33-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <7676D6AE-108A-11D8-8448-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <3FAA9FAA.2070008@benatong.com> <380536AA-1105-11D8-A5F3-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> <1153A2DD-110A-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> <91FB ! EA3C-1! <2B706744-1123-11D8-8C00-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> Message-ID: <3A65323A-1128-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> On 7 Nov 2003, at 14:32, Matt wrote: > How do we do a feature request for Mail/Services in that we can select > some text and call a Service that uses the sherlock translation > service? Does it need to be Sherlock ? If not, this works: http://homepage.mac.com/azc/TranslationService/index.html mark. From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Fri Nov 7 07:19:00 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Something I don't get about the iTMS In-Reply-To: <78A2CD8C-10A5-11D8-9936-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> References: <8DBB0E85-0F85-11D8-97FA-000393AE3644@mac.com> <533CCA2D-0FA7-11D8-9518-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> <57A97A90-0FEC-11D8-A5B9-000393A335A2@mac.com> <78A2CD8C-10A5-11D8-9936-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Message-ID: <49AA0053-10DD-11D8-BB25-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> I'd run into shenanigans like this a few times (I haven't bought anything from iTMS - I just buy stuff used from Amazon..). I remember Mossberg (Wall Street Journal and BusinessWeek columnist) said that similar things (were, don't know if they still are) present in PressPlay and MusicNet - things where some of a bands music is available but not all, something about only one of the Beatles songs being there. I bet licensing has something to do with it, but I wonder if it's because the music industry knows that digital music is the future and wants to get into it (but doesn't want to give up relatively high profits, excessive marketing costs, and all the other Courtney-Love-type arguments that have been hashed out in many places). But don't want to destroy their old business model of selling physical CD's. So they cripple their online offerings, so people will still buy at least some things on physical CDs. Has anyone else read that article titled "6 CDs a Year" which said that according to surveys, the average person buys only 6 CDs a year. 6 CDs isn't really that many, and the article argued that many people certainly don't just listen to *just* six artists, but don't buy more because the prices are so high (relatively). This was argued to be why CD buying didn't go down when Napster hit the scene.. At the risk of making this into another thread about the music industry, has anyone done a study analyzing the effect of used-music buying on new-CD sales? The industry argues their profits are declining because of piracy. Probably to some degree. But at about the same time Napster hit the scene, Amazon and Ebay also presented a convenient place to sell used CDs. So I don't buy new CDs (I never did much anyway), but I don't pirate either - I just buy stuff used. I may be supporting someone *else's* piracy (rip, then sell, repeat..), but that's out of my control. Jim >> There are other examples of incomplete albums - kind of a bummer >> because it prevents you from buying the thing as an album - would be >> nice if you could buy the existing tracks as an From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Fri Nov 7 07:19:15 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Why is the window server so interested in the disk? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4743C94A-10E0-11D8-B868-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> >> no. I had a few short bursts of 10 or 20 with the WindowServer or one >> other related piece and then all quiet for a long time of watching. I just check right after a login, with nothing else (other than Finder and Terminal) open, and got 26 hits in one second. That rate looks relatively constant. There are also short bursts of activity (less than a second) from a process called 'updtae' labeled WrMeta[async]. This is accompanied by a disk click about once every 6-20 seconds. Looking at all the activity makes me wonder how much faster OSX could be if all this activity is just 'superfluous' or something. I should dig up a copy of BeOS for Intel somewhere and see how it performs.. Jim From andyring at inebraska.com Fri Nov 7 07:37:11 2003 From: andyring at inebraska.com (Andy Ringsmuth) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: adjusting scrolling speed Message-ID: <35FFD122-1138-11D8-9A31-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> Does anyone know of a way, perhaps by editing some *.plist file, etc., to slow down the scrolling speed, particularly in the Finder? Here's what I mean: Lets say you are dragging a file/folder through a window that contains 50 or more folders, in either column or (particularly) list view. By dragging the file/folder to the top or bottom of the window, the window scrolls so you can get to folders you couldn't otherwise see. But, when you do that, it typically scrolls *very* fast, almost snapping to the top or bottom of the list! This makes it nearly useless. There's got to be a way to adjust that scrolling speed somewhere, I'd think, and I'm not as familiar with the various .plist files as others out there are. Any help is much appreciated. -Andy From shawnce at mac.com Fri Nov 7 07:51:12 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: adjusting scrolling speed In-Reply-To: <35FFD122-1138-11D8-9A31-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> References: <35FFD122-1138-11D8-9A31-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> Message-ID: <1DDA6A66-113A-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 7:36 AM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > Does anyone know of a way, perhaps by editing some *.plist file, etc., > to slow down the scrolling speed, particularly in the Finder? > > Here's what I mean: > > > Lets say you are dragging a file/folder through a window that contains > 50 or more folders, in either column or (particularly) list view. By > dragging the file/folder to the top or bottom of the window, the > window scrolls so you can get to folders you couldn't otherwise see. > > But, when you do that, it typically scrolls *very* fast, almost > snapping to the top or bottom of the list! This makes it nearly > useless. There's got to be a way to adjust that scrolling speed > somewhere, I'd think, and I'm not as familiar with the various .plist > files as others out there are. Humm... what it should do and does appear to do in column view is throttle the scroll rate based on how close you bring the dragged item to the bounds of the scrolling view. It looks like this is somehow broken in list view in the finder. It looks like a finder bug to me... (if I get time I will file a bug about this). -Shawn From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Fri Nov 7 08:24:01 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: <20031107080452.A13693@bronski.net> Message-ID: On 11/6/03 11:04 PM, "Christoph Rummel" wrote: > mark (2003-11-05 10:37:14 +0100): >>> i saw a note in yesterday's MacInTouch Panther report that >>> reinstalling Stuffit Expander fixed CM problems for a couple >>> of people.. no idea why.. worth a try >> >> nope, sadly not the culprit for me. Pity, would have >> liked to blame it on Aladdin. > > Reinstalling StuffIt alone didn't do the job. I had to > remove some CMs from /Library/Contextual Menues and > ~/Library/Contextual Menues too. After that there waere > no crashes any more. Can you include a crash log? It might be easy to pick out the culprit. Dan From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Fri Nov 7 08:30:25 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <972A7F58-113F-11D8-A2C6-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> On Nov 7, 2003, at 5:23 PM, Dan Crevier wrote: > Can you include a crash log? It might be easy to pick out the culprit. It's always easy: Microsoft. : ) j. From andyring at inebraska.com Fri Nov 7 08:31:05 2003 From: andyring at inebraska.com (Andy Ringsmuth) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: adjusting scrolling speed In-Reply-To: <0880C8ED-113A-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@freetimesw.com> References: <35FFD122-1138-11D8-9A31-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> <0880C8ED-113A-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@freetimesw.com> Message-ID: On Nov 7, 2003, at 9:49 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > > On Nov 7, 2003, at 7:36 AM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a way, perhaps by editing some *.plist file, >> etc., to slow down the scrolling speed, particularly in the Finder? >> >> Here's what I mean: >> >> >> Lets say you are dragging a file/folder through a window that >> contains 50 or more folders, in either column or (particularly) list >> view. By dragging the file/folder to the top or bottom of the window, >> the window scrolls so you can get to folders you couldn't otherwise >> see. >> >> But, when you do that, it typically scrolls *very* fast, almost >> snapping to the top or bottom of the list! This makes it nearly >> useless. There's got to be a way to adjust that scrolling speed >> somewhere, I'd think, and I'm not as familiar with the various .plist >> files as others out there are. > > Humm... what it should do and does appear to do in column view is > throttle the scroll rate based on how close you bring the dragged item > to the bounds of the scrolling view. It looks like this is somehow > broken in list view in the finder. > > It looks like a finder bug to me... (if I get time I will file a bug > about this). I explored this further, and I'm pretty sure it is a bug in the Finder. I went ahead and filed a bug through the Developer Connection. -Andy From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 7 08:40:07 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: adjusting scrolling speed In-Reply-To: <1DDA6A66-113A-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> References: <35FFD122-1138-11D8-9A31-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> <1DDA6A66-113A-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> Message-ID: On 7 Nov 2003, at 15:50, Shawn Erickson wrote: > On Nov 7, 2003, at 7:36 AM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a way, perhaps by editing some *.plist file, >> etc., to slow down the scrolling speed, particularly in the Finder? > > Humm... what it should do and does appear to do in column view is ..... Man, for years the Mac scrolled slowly...and people complained that PCs scrolled faster...so Apple "fixes it" and now people want slow scrolling... Hard to keep up. Oh, and it's the sort of thing that could be added in 5 mins... :D Have a good weekend, peeps. From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 7 09:10:21 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?weird_Expos=E9_thing?= Message-ID: <249E4D14-1145-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Does anyone else see this. I have two screens hooked up but I don't think that's necessary. Open several windows and then hit the first Expos? button so it shows all windows. Looks normal eh? Now drag one window so it's more then 50% outside of the bounds of the screen. Dragging the title bar to just above the dock will do. Now hit the Expos? button. Looks different eh? The partial screen turns into a little tiny icon in the top corner.... Anyone think this is a bug? Feature? -- Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. From pcoskren at mac.com Fri Nov 7 09:17:08 2003 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_weird_Expos=E9_thing?= In-Reply-To: <249E4D14-1145-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <249E4D14-1145-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <282952D8-1146-11D8-A5D9-000A9586BA18@mac.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 12:09 PM, Matt wrote: > Now hit the Expos? button. Looks different eh? The partial screen > turns into a little tiny icon in the top corner.... > > Anyone think this is a bug? Feature? Looks like a bug to me. -Patrick From mmalc_lists at mac.com Fri Nov 7 09:21:01 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: <6B86B61A-10F5-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> References: <20031107080452.A13693@bronski.net> <6B86B61A-10F5-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 11:38 PM, mark wrote: >> remove some CMs from /Library/Contextual Menues and >> ~/Library/Contextual Menues too. After that there waere >> no crashes any more. > which did you remove ? I have also done this (re-installed Stuffit and > removed certain CMs). My crashes have also disappeared, but I haven't > gotten round to singling out a culprit from the group I "disabled": > [...] > NotebookCMPlugin Oh, heavens, I'm sorry for not taking notice of this thread before. I spent a while on this with someone else a while back. There is a problem with Notebook's plugin on Panther (see below). CircusPonies just released version 1.2. That should work fine... mmalc Begin forwarded message: From: Jayson Adams Date: October 8, 2003 10:53:55 PM PDT To: [...] Subject: Problem with NoteBookCMPlugIn.plugin Hello [...], Malcolm asked me to write you about a possible problem with the NoteBook contextual menu plug-in. There is a problem that shows up under Panther that has to do with autorelease pools. The plug-in has Cocoa code and so it needs an autorelease pool. Because it might run in a Carbon app it creates an autorelease pool at the beginning of certain of its functions and the releases it before returning. It appears that sometime during the function call that objects from the host app land in the function's autorelease pool and wind up getting freed sooner than normal (at the end of the function instead of at the end of the event loop). This new version of the plug-in only creates an autorelease pool if the host app is Carbon: [The attachment NoteBookCMPlugIn.plugin has been manually removed] Hopefully this fixes the problem you're seeing. Please let me know either way, or if you see any other weirdness. __jayson From shawnce at mac.com Fri Nov 7 09:23:39 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_weird_Expos=E9_thing?= In-Reply-To: <249E4D14-1145-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <249E4D14-1145-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <06B0911B-1147-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 9:09 AM, Matt wrote: > Does anyone else see this. > > I have two screens hooked up but I don't think that's necessary. > > Open several windows and then hit the first Expos? button so it shows > all windows. Looks normal eh? > > Now drag one window so it's more then 50% outside of the bounds of the > screen. Dragging the title bar to just above the dock will do. > > Now hit the Expos? button. Looks different eh? The partial screen > turns into a little tiny icon in the top corner.... > > Anyone think this is a bug? Feature? If I go a little over 50% on my dual monitor system the the window slides to the second window (what I would expect). If around 50% it will slide to far opposite side of the screen and become tiny. I don't think that is a reasonable thing to do... so I say bug. Showing an apps window does the same thing. -Shawn From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Fri Nov 7 09:25:27 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_weird_Expos=E9_thing?= In-Reply-To: <249E4D14-1145-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <249E4D14-1145-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <213B8F88-1147-11D8-A2C6-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> On Nov 7, 2003, at 6:09 PM, Matt wrote: > Does anyone else see this. > > I have two screens hooked up but I don't think that's necessary. > > Open several windows and then hit the first Expos? button so it shows > all windows. Looks normal eh? > > Now drag one window so it's more then 50% outside of the bounds of the > screen. Dragging the title bar to just above the dock will do. > > Now hit the Expos? button. Looks different eh? The partial screen > turns into a little tiny icon in the top corner.... I have not experienced this on my tibook. No two displays. j. From shawnce at mac.com Fri Nov 7 09:31:32 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: adjusting scrolling speed In-Reply-To: References: <35FFD122-1138-11D8-9A31-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> <1DDA6A66-113A-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> Message-ID: <1063720C-1148-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 8:39 AM, Matt wrote: > > On 7 Nov 2003, at 15:50, Shawn Erickson wrote: > >> On Nov 7, 2003, at 7:36 AM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: >> >>> Does anyone know of a way, perhaps by editing some *.plist file, >>> etc., to slow down the scrolling speed, particularly in the Finder? >> >> Humm... what it should do and does appear to do in column view is >> ..... > > Man, for years the Mac scrolled slowly...and people complained that > PCs scrolled faster...so Apple "fixes it" and now people want slow > scrolling... Yeah Apple finally wised up to all of the lost sails because of the bad benchmark stats "X application on windows scroll 10,000x time faster then a similar application on Mac, Mac's must suck!". > Hard to keep up. > > Oh, and it's the sort of thing that could be added in 5 mins... > > :D Man... I love fighting with applications on my P4 Windows XP system at work when they zip scroll around on me. Makes it fun when trying to drag and drop things in them. ...zip top, darn... zip bottom, shit... move mouse slowly now... zip, ARGGGH. Of course they appear to have tried a fix for this in window explorer but they did it in a way that you have to jiggle the mouse pointer around to get it scroll faster, stupid. -Shawn From pcoskren at mac.com Fri Nov 7 09:32:11 2003 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_weird_Expos=E9_thing?= In-Reply-To: <06B0911B-1147-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> References: <249E4D14-1145-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <06B0911B-1147-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> Message-ID: <4335213C-1148-11D8-A5D9-000A9586BA18@mac.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 12:22 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > If I go a little over 50% on my dual monitor system the the window > slides to the second window (what I would expect). If around 50% it > will slide to far opposite side of the screen and become tiny. Exactly what I see on my dual-monitor system, too. Who wants to file the bug? I nominate Matt: he found it. :-) -Patrick From shawnce at mac.com Fri Nov 7 09:36:01 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: adjusting scrolling speed In-Reply-To: <1063720C-1148-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> References: <35FFD122-1138-11D8-9A31-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> <1DDA6A66-113A-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> <1063720C-1148-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 7, 2003, at 9:30 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > > On Nov 7, 2003, at 8:39 AM, Matt wrote: > >> >> On 7 Nov 2003, at 15:50, Shawn Erickson wrote: >> >>> On Nov 7, 2003, at 7:36 AM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: >>> >>>> Does anyone know of a way, perhaps by editing some *.plist file, >>>> etc., to slow down the scrolling speed, particularly in the Finder? >>> >>> Humm... what it should do and does appear to do in column view is >>> ..... >> >> Man, for years the Mac scrolled slowly...and people complained that >> PCs scrolled faster...so Apple "fixes it" and now people want slow >> scrolling... > > Yeah Apple finally wised up to all of the lost sails because of the > bad benchmark stats "X application on windows scroll 10,000x time > faster then a similar application on Mac, Mac's must suck!". sails? wow... "sales" >> Hard to keep up. >> >> Oh, and it's the sort of thing that could be added in 5 mins... >> >> :D From mstearne at entermix.com Fri Nov 7 09:45:00 2003 From: mstearne at entermix.com (Michael Stearne) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: .NET a Lock-In To Windows, Perhaps Not... In-Reply-To: References: <20031103014108.QRJQ1849.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> <9DAE7FFA-0E29-11D8-BB38-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <712B1AFC-0FE5-11D8-9F03-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> On Nov 4, 2003, at 11:00 AM, Jim Witte wrote: >>> ported is the runtime. The interesting stuff, like data access, >>> WinForms, etc. are not part of the open specification and there are >>> no indications they will ever be ported outside of Windows. >> Actually, that's just what Mono is doing >> (http://go-mono.org/asp-net.html). But of course MS makes it hard and >> the Mono people have to reverse engineer it. So, like Wine it will >> always be a moving target. > > No chance that the DOJ could be told about this, is there? I read > somewhere that some AGs or some other group is getting concerned about > MS apparently not doing what little they *were* required to do by that > settlement. > They don't understand and it's so hard to prove anyway. If the DOJ doesn't care (and won't till at best after the next election) the AGs have no weight. The pressure the EU puts on Microsoft may help. Michael From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 7 09:47:18 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: adjusting scrolling speed In-Reply-To: <1063720C-1148-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> References: <35FFD122-1138-11D8-9A31-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> <1DDA6A66-113A-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> <1063720C-1148-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> Message-ID: <5CF938DC-114A-11D8-BF83-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 7 Nov 2003, at 17:30, Shawn Erickson wrote: > Man... I love fighting with applications on my P4 Windows XP system at > work when they zip scroll around on me. Makes it fun when trying to > drag and drop things in them. ...zip top, darn... zip bottom, shit... > move mouse slowly now... zip, ARGGGH. Oh god, I'm getting flashbacks of using WinXP the other day and having that. I forgot all about it... Nice Mac..c'mere... -- Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Fri Nov 7 10:03:03 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Adding command-keys to Finder contextual menus In-Reply-To: <20031104224813.GH65616@uiuc.edu> References: <81EEE29C-0EDB-11D8-8F10-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> <20031104224813.GH65616@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <988D9494-114C-11D8-B4E4-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> > Last I checked, contextual menus are not supposed to have keyboard > equivalents. I don't know why Terminal does; I find it annoying. I find the contextual menu equivs in Camino to be extremely useful, and not *too* non-intuitive since menus now stay open when you click them. Just click, then Cmd-I for info. This isn't much of a stretch on an iBook keyboard. It saves me the time, effort, and (maybe) RSI-inducing movement to scroll down to the item on a trackpad. It's like how I delete things on Windows (when I have to). Right-click on an icon, then D for delete, then Y for yes. One smooth motion, the over-cautious MS dialog be damned! Jim From steve at paper-ape.com Fri Nov 7 10:07:02 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: <6B86B61A-10F5-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> References: <20031107080452.A13693@bronski.net> <6B86B61A-10F5-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: at 20031107, 08:38 +0100, they whom i call mark wrote: >XRay Contextual Menu in case you didn't know, XRay has a new version -- steve harley From mark at imap-partners.net Fri Nov 7 11:03:18 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: References: <20031107080452.A13693@bronski.net> <6B86B61A-10F5-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: On 7 Nov 2003, at 18:17, steve harley wrote: > at 20031107, 08:38 +0100, they whom i call mark wrote: >> XRay Contextual Menu > > in case you didn't know, XRay has a new version thanks Steve, yep, got it already. mark. > > -- > steve harley From mark at imap-partners.net Fri Nov 7 11:06:02 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: References: <20031107080452.A13693@bronski.net> <6B86B61A-10F5-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: <4A95C887-1155-11D8-A585-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> On 7 Nov 2003, at 18:20, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > Oh, heavens, I'm sorry for not taking notice of this thread before. I > spent a while on this with someone else a while back. There is a > problem with Notebook's plugin on Panther (see below). CircusPonies > just released version 1.2. That should work fine... Cheers mmalc, no worries. Already identified Notebook's cm plugin as the culprit (thanks to Christoph). Got 1.2 but haven't installed it yet. mark. From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Fri Nov 7 11:29:00 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: adjusting scrolling speed In-Reply-To: <35FFD122-1138-11D8-9A31-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> References: <35FFD122-1138-11D8-9A31-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> Message-ID: <20031107192728.GH6539@Dark-Age.local> On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 09:36:52AM -0600, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: : : Does anyone know of a way, perhaps by editing some *.plist file, etc., : to slow down the scrolling speed, particularly in the Finder? Get a slower Mac? :-) -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From steve at union.arizona.edu Fri Nov 7 11:30:02 2003 From: steve at union.arizona.edu (steve stout) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: <20031107104704.GE6539@Dark-Age.local> References: <4DC837AC-10FC-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <8B10C458-110D-11D8-A967-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> <20031107104704.GE6539@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <99DD84B2-1158-11D8-8D58-003065AB63F4@union.arizona.edu> > On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 03:31:27AM -0700, steve stout wrote: > : > : Not really.... Just for the fun of it I decided to load my 7500 > fonts > : into it. After waiting a half hour I find out that it moved all the > : fonts from my nicely organized font folder to ~/Library/Fonts. grr. > > How were your fonts previously "nicely organized"? They were in folders organized by name (A fonts, B fonts, etc). Font Book moved them all, which is something ATM and Suitcase don't do. And it makes sense to not do something like that. So sure, if you don't have that many fonts it's adequate, but it should at least give you a warning that it's going to move the fonts instead of copying them. (And yes, I later found the option to copy instead of move). And a progress bar with a cancel button would be nice too while it's importing. Other than that, auto-activation is almost essential. ./steve From fabienlroy at mac.com Fri Nov 7 11:41:10 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: (update) firewire 800 drives & panther: not good buds In-Reply-To: <71F4EC83-0FD6-11D8-B872-000393764C26@connected.ch> Message-ID: <324DFF76-115A-11D8-A4EB-000393658196@mac.com> How to detect the bad Oxford 911/922 revision? It seems that I have the 1.0483 software version on my 911. Will it work on Panther? Thanks. Fabien -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Picture 1.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 10064 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031107/f8cc5b19/Picture1.pdf -------------- next part -------------- On Wednesday, Nov 5, 2003, at 13:24 America/Los_Angeles, Johannes Vetsch wrote: > > Am Montag, 03.11.03 um 20:58 Uhr schrieb Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks > Inc.: > > > snipped... > >> There was a note on one of the news sites that the bug is not just an >> Oxford 922 bug, but also in later revs of the Oxford 911 chips and >> not just in Panther... This is what I read somewhere, I don't have >> more details. But it gives you a start in googling... >> >> Chad > > thanks, > > for any ownwers of external FW Hard Drives Apple has posted the links > to the different manufacturers in question having the affected 922/911 > Oxford chip sets. > > http://www.apple.com/macosx/firewire800specialmessage.html > > As far as the LaCie updater (released today) they are standalone and > autodetecting. > > regards > johannes > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >> > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Fri Nov 7 11:47:10 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: New "Topics" Interface concept for Mail - kind of Views plus Labels Message-ID: <395A1D8A-115B-11D8-8D81-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Here's an idea for a new interface for Mail, which is sort of a combination of labels plus the new IE concept (well, new for IE, most certainly not *new* new..) of Views: There's a strip at the top of the the message list (or maybe also in the message folder in the drawer) that would be for Topics you're interested in. When a news message came in that you didn't want to read right now, but thought was interesting, you could place it in one of the topics. Threads could also be placed there. Rules could sort into topics too. Then, you could click on a topic button, and all the messages in that topic (maybe highlighted, maybe not) would jump to the top of the list. Click on the topic button again, and they'd be sorted back into the whole list by date/subject/whatever. When a topic was displayed at the top of the list, the rest of the messages (which were "pushed down" as it were) would still remain sorted in whatever order. When a topic was selected, it would have it's own selection saved (so when you reopened it it would come back to where you left). I don't know if this would offer any "simplicity" over just having more sub-folders. A story: working with my mostly-computer-illiterate mother [on a Mac], I've come to the conclusion that the whole discipline of interface-intuitiveness and simplicity needs to be rethought from the ground up, starting with research into how people approach tasks and process sets of information. Just one example: my mom seems to have the linear sequence "close the web browser window, quit web browser, disconnect PPP" in her mind as an immutable sequence. It isn't. You can very easily close the PPP without closing the web browser. Now, when people are dealing with dish washers they don't think like this.. You don't *have* to put the dish detergent in the machine before putting the dishes; you just need to put it in before starting it. The "activity graph" has many ways through it, and relatively few dependencies. So why (or do? is this idea all wrong?) do (some) people tend to think computers are intrinsically different, in *requireing* a sequence, even when there is no logical reason why that sequence should be required (there's nothing about having a window open that prevents you from closing the PPP..) As a friend of mine would say, "tough nuts to crack". But if we want computers that are truly easy to use by everyone, they will have to be cracked by someone. Jim From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Fri Nov 7 12:18:11 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: OS X On Intel In-Reply-To: <3A1E3C8A-10E2-11D8-B55D-0003937234CE@mac.com> References: <3A1E3C8A-10E2-11D8-B55D-0003937234CE@mac.com> Message-ID: <97648CAB-115F-11D8-8A71-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 12:21 AM, Phil Larson wrote: > How's this for fueling the fire: > I love the trash talk and this is my favorite: "They're hoping to be in 2006 where we were with Jaguar," Jobs said, adding, "We're going to have a few more releases by then." Definitely .sig material. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html From dinse at niehs.nih.gov Fri Nov 7 12:24:01 2003 From: dinse at niehs.nih.gov (Gregg Dinse) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Font size problems in Mail.app under Panther Message-ID: <46AD71CD-1160-11D8-8229-000A95AFA24A@niehs.nih.gov> Hi, I wrote recently to say that after upgrading to panther, the font size when printing seemed huge. I think I have a clue as to why this is happening. Prior to panther, I had selected a large font (14 pt) in Mail Preferences so that I could read the screen better -- my eyes are not what they used to be. Prior to panther, the font size seemed "normal" to "small" when I printed (say maybe 10 pt or less), even though it was larger on the screen. It's my belief, though I have not gone back to jaguar to test it, that the font size for printing was independent of (or at least less dependent on) the font size for screen display. Now in panther, with the same preferences, the font size for printing definitely seems highly correlated with the font size for screen display. If I make the font large enough to see well on the screen (14 pt), the font size when printing that message seems huge (it looks bigger than 14 pt to me, but I'm not sure). If I reduce the font size in the Mail Preferences, the printed output looks better (smaller), but then I can't read the screen very well. Is this a bug or a feature? Was this changed on purpose? I guess it makes some sense for the screen and print fonts to be the same size, but it sure was more convenient (for me, at least) to have the screen font size be larger than the print font size. Assuming that this new behavior is intended, is there a way (short of ditching panther) for me to return to the old behavior? Thanks in advance for any help, Gregg ================================= Gregg Dinse From pcoskren at mac.com Fri Nov 7 12:28:01 2003 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: OS X On Intel In-Reply-To: <15986EA6-10F6-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <3A1E3C8A-10E2-11D8-B55D-0003937234CE@mac.com> <15986EA6-10F6-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On Nov 7, 2003, at 2:43 AM, Lukreme wrote: > On 06 Nov 2003, at 22:21, Phil Larson wrote: >> How's this for fueling the fire: >> >> http://news.com.com/2100-1045_3-5103279.html > > "Jobs said that video recording is processor intensive and is best > left to a device that is not doing other things such as playing games > or running spreadsheets. "When I want to record 'The West Wing,' I > want to make damn sure it records 'The West Wing,'" he said." Sort of gives the lie to the idea that Jobs hates TV. Apparently he's not above enjoying the good stuff. -Patrick From lngtones at mac.com Fri Nov 7 12:57:23 2003 From: lngtones at mac.com (Phil Larson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: New "Topics" Interface concept for Mail - kind of Views plus Labels In-Reply-To: <395A1D8A-115B-11D8-8D81-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> References: <395A1D8A-115B-11D8-8D81-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: On Nov 7, 2003, at 11:47 AM, Jim Witte wrote: > So why (or do? is this idea all wrong?) do (some) people tend to think > computers are intrinsically different, in *requireing* a sequence, > even when there is no logical reason why that sequence should be > required (there's nothing about having a window open that prevents you > from closing the PPP..) Most likely because most people never take the time to learn the fundamentals of what their computer is doing so they can't make a mental model of what's going on. They do know that when they do a certain order of steps they get done what they want to get done. It's different then the dishwasher which is physical (more familiar) and it's also doing something that people understand because we do it everyday in the shower. Soap + water = clean. The idea of a computer being intuitive is kind of silly because almost nothing is immediately intuitive. We all had to be told to bath or bad things will happen. We all had to be taught that the round thing on the door turns so that you can open it. We most certainly have to be taught that certain shapes on a computer are probably buttons, but maybe not. It may be a web ad trying to lure you in. Be careful! The problem is when you try to explain the fundamentals of operating a computer. Things like this is an application. These are you files that you can organize however you want in folders. Your PPP application connects your computer to the Internet, and the web browser is an application on your computer that uses that connection when it's available. People think you're insulting them or making them feel stupid. There's still a stigma of computers are only for "smart" people. Phil From steve at paper-ape.com Fri Nov 7 13:29:12 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Panther Mail Threading: disappointed In-Reply-To: <340E3CD2-10F5-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <76781AC6-089C-11D8-A5EA-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <614D2462-104C-11D8-B947-000393D72954@mac.com> <8CC8A01F-10A3-11D8-8D77-003065AB9B0E@kreme.com> <340E3CD2-10F5-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: at 20031107, 00:37 -0700, they whom i call Lukreme wrote: >I have over 150 active mailboxes, and at least double that many >inactive backup mailboxes that I occasionally access. That script >solution is simply not feasible, especially when new mailboxes are >created by my procmail recipes, sometimes on a daily basis. depending on your structure and your navigation patterns, perhaps a script could be tailored to aid generically, without depending on specific mailbox names.. Jaguar Mail doesn't fully expose the hierarchical mailbox structure to AppleScript, but there is a workaround.. assuming this hasn't changed in Panther Mail, a script can divine the structure by observing slashes in the list of "qualified" mailbox names returned by this code: on get_qualified_mailbox_names() set the_qualified_names to {} tell application "Mail" to set the_boxes to mailboxes repeat with a_box in the_boxes set end of the_qualified_names to <> of (a_box as record) as string end repeat return the_qualified_names end get_qualified_mailbox_names (replace angle brackets with appropriate chevrons) i don't think the results are in any guaranteed order, but you could parse the result into a tree, to be used as the basis of a navigation script -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Fri Nov 7 13:30:00 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: <4DC837AC-10FC-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <4DC837AC-10FC-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031107, 08:28 +0000, they whom i call Matt wrote: >http://www.jimdalrymple.com/Reviews-index-req-showcontent-id-6.html > >"As a longtime graphic designer, I have been around the block more >than once with font utility applications. Apple's newest operating >system offers a font utility that may not have as many features as >some of the competing standalone applications do, but it certainly >gives the competition a run for their money." as i noted previously, with some fixes, Font Book should be workable for those graphic design and production workers whose font environment is reasonably stable (though i'm baffled why the author feels it's effective to keep 1000 faces always open) on consideration, i do think that Font Book will alter the market for Font Agent Pro and Suitcase.. many users don't see value in verification, reporting or auto-activation.. the market was already altered by Mac OS X, where even manual font management became relatively easy and reliable.. now, just as the bulk of graphic users seem poised to adopt Mac OS X, it will be unfortunate if Apple's choice helps reduce the pro font management field to just one app perhaps we need a new player in this field with more oomph than Extensis or Insider ... hey, OmniGroup, wanna build a font manager? -- steve harley From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Fri Nov 7 13:52:06 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Address Book "click-on-card-label" behavior Message-ID: In Address Book, if I click on the gray label for any field in Edit mode, the "edit slip" (Newton-esque terminology) will pop up. But this DOESN'T work when clicking on the 'Notes:' label, nor does an edit slip pop up. Is anybody else annoyed by this blatantly inconsistent behavior? True, one could say that in Notes, you're more likely to type a lot of text rather than just one word, but that's no reason why an "edit slip" shouldn't pop up, nor why the "standard" behavior of clicking on the field name shouldn't activate it. Also, In Panther, the seeming behavior for "edit text" things - like mail nicknames in Mail - is to have them highlight when you roll the cursor over them, and a popup menu. This is even true in Address Book, where the email labels are such active controls (never mind it should really be the email *address* that is the active site). Why isn't this roll-over behavior shown in edit mode in Address Book? If it was implemented right (double click on it activates the edit slip), it would do away with the need for an edit button at all, which always struck me as kind of out-of-place. This would also like be more like the original Newton Address Book: to edit something, you double-click on the thing you want to edit, and either an edit slip for just that part comes up, or the dialog for editing all the information comes up. Of course, it's less intuitive "what you do to edit", but with the roll-over behavior that's seemingly standard in Panther Mail, and a little instruction to the user in the beginning (i.e. I think it would be good for Apple to come up with some kind of standard API for designing "active tutorials" of features in an application, where it would instruct the user to do something instead of just describing it on a webpage, as the current Help Viewer does. As I recall, some application did this, with drawing a red circle around the thing to click, etc. Don't remember the app, but it was Mac. Jim From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 7 14:09:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: <4DC837AC-10FC-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 7 Nov 2003, at 21:24, steve harley wrote: > the market was already altered by Mac OS X, where even > manual font management became relatively easy and reliable.. Heck, font management was altered by OS9 which increased the number of potentially open files to a useful 8169 rather than the paltry amount it was before. It also meant the number of active fonts in the Fonts folder went from 128 to 512. THIS is the real reason we use crutched like Suitcase. It's just we now use it to organise sets but in the past we actually needed it. http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1176.html From lngtones at mac.com Fri Nov 7 14:11:28 2003 From: lngtones at mac.com (Phil Larson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Additional Calculator.app Modes Message-ID: <34691900-116F-11D8-A7F8-0003937234CE@mac.com> Just had to point out this great tip: Phil From sstevenson at mac.com Fri Nov 7 14:13:02 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_weird_Expos=E9_thing?= In-Reply-To: <249E4D14-1145-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <249E4D14-1145-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <6BD86CC3-116F-11D8-B694-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 9:09 AM, Matt wrote: > I have two screens hooked up but I don't think that's necessary. [...] > Now hit the Expos? button. Looks different eh? The partial screen > turns into a little tiny icon in the top corner.... I don't see it here, so it might be specific to dual monitor configurations. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 445 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031107/dc62d7d9/attachment.bin From lngtones at mac.com Fri Nov 7 14:51:45 2003 From: lngtones at mac.com (Phil Larson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Steve Ballmer's iPod Message-ID: Steve Ballmer loves his iPod http://www.iwantmyflashtv.com/macboy/ballmersipod.swf Phil From cthacker at casmail.ucsf.edu Fri Nov 7 14:59:03 2003 From: cthacker at casmail.ucsf.edu (chris thacker) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: CM related crashes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think I had this problem when I used a beta of Panther with SpeedDownload 2. It is fixed now, either due to the Panther final or a SpeedDownload fix... I think the former. ------------------- Chris Thacker Campus Life Services - Information Systems University of California at San Francisco [ help desk ] 415 502-5511 [direct line] 415 514-3373 On Oct 30, 2003, at 8:08 AM, mark wrote: > Anyone seeing app crashes when using contextual menus ? I'm getting > occasional crashes in Safari, Mail, Address Book and iCal when doing > CM operations. > > Vague I know, but its a notion thats gradually developed. I'm getting > a lot more app crashes than pre-Panther and it took a while to > register that they are overwhelmingly associated with contextual > menus. > > mark. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 879 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031107/cdaa3641/attachment.bin From cthacker at casmail.ucsf.edu Fri Nov 7 15:10:09 2003 From: cthacker at casmail.ucsf.edu (chris thacker) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: safari file downloads Message-ID: <668259F1-1177-11D8-8A63-0003931CE9CA@casmail.ucsf.edu> Is there a way to control-click on a link for a download within Safari and then specify a download location other than the desktop? either via a hack or key combo? this is annoying. eventually i'd also love more control over downloads... queues, etc like IE ------------------- Chris Thacker Campus Life Services - Information Systems University of California at San Francisco [ help desk ] 415 502-5511 [direct line] 415 514-3373 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 539 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031107/f076149b/attachment.bin From steve at paper-ape.com Fri Nov 7 15:31:11 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: <4DC837AC-10FC-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031107, 22:06 +0000, they whom i call Matt wrote: >On 7 Nov 2003, at 21:24, steve harley wrote: > >>the market was already altered by Mac OS X, where even >>manual font management became relatively easy and reliable.. > >Heck, font management was altered by OS9 which increased the number >of potentially open files to a useful 8169 rather than the paltry >amount it was before. It also meant the number of active fonts in >the Fonts folder went from 128 to 512. > >THIS is the real reason we use crutched like Suitcase. It's just we >now use it to organise sets but in the past we actually needed it. dunno -- was there a reduction in sales of font management tools with the introduction of Mac OS 9? maybe all you got from a font manager was sets, but i used Suitcase starting in 1989, and needed it because there were no "printer fonts" on my computer (a Mac Plus with no hard drive) -- these fonts were on another Mac Plus connected by LocalTalk, and Suitcase opened them for me as needed.. we published a magazine and books that way when ATM Deluxe appeared, it did a great job of auto-activation, it helped weed out corrupt fonts, and it made searching for fonts and seeing their designs and family relations very easy.. eventually, one could indeed keep many fonts open, but realistically, after a few hundred fonts the menus would get ridiculous.. Adobe Type Reunion helped some, and is now supplanted by the Cocoa Font Palette, but large sets are still unwieldy, especially in Carbon apps.. because i never *wanted* to load thousands of fonts, i only rarely hit the limit even in Mac OS 8 -- it wasn't the reason i used a font manager -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Fri Nov 7 15:41:10 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Font size problems in Mail.app under Panther In-Reply-To: <46AD71CD-1160-11D8-8229-000A95AFA24A@niehs.nih.gov> References: <46AD71CD-1160-11D8-8229-000A95AFA24A@niehs.nih.gov> Message-ID: at 20031107, 15:23 -0500, they whom i call Gregg Dinse wrote: >Assuming that this new behavior is intended, is there a way (short >of ditching panther) for me to return to the old behavior? are you willing to switch email clients? Eudora has a separate setting for printer versus display fonts.. i bet other clients too -- steve harley From lists at drunkenbatman.com Fri Nov 7 16:28:38 2003 From: lists at drunkenbatman.com (db) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031107192709584173.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:17:30 -0800, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >>> No, not at all. The OS remains platform agnostic. >> Except for all the bits that aren't. >> You can't really claim the OS is platform agnostic except by claiming that Quartz, Aqua, Cocoa etc are platform agnostic, or not parts of the OS. Which would score some points, but I wouldn't say it was actually proving yourself more correct. >> > I can claim either of those or both, and I would still be correct. even the parts that are wrappers for carbon? hmm. From mmalc_lists at mac.com Fri Nov 7 16:44:00 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031107192709584173.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031107192709584173.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: <884A2756-1184-11D8-B4D1-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 4:27 PM, db wrote: >>> You can't really claim the OS is platform agnostic except by >>> claiming that Quartz, Aqua, Cocoa etc are platform agnostic, or not >>> parts of the OS. Which would score some points, but I wouldn't say >>> it was actually proving yourself more correct. >> I can claim either of those or both, and I would still be correct. > even the parts that are wrappers for carbon? > Yes. ( "It's perfectly technically feasible to port Panther to any processor," Jobs said.) Hmm. mmalc From alexfuller at mac.com Fri Nov 7 16:57:20 2003 From: alexfuller at mac.com (Alex Fuller) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Address Book / MS Exchange Message-ID: <586C34C6-1141-11D8-A9C2-000393DB5348@mac.com> The new Address Book has the ability to sync with Exchange via iSync. Unfortunately, the company for whom I am trying to get this to work use a domain within their Active Directory setup, which Address Book doesn't seem to be able to handle. This can give problems with Outlook webmail too: http://my.webmail.server/exchange will bring up an authentication dialog - IE will ask for a Domain, but Safari doesn't offer the field; without it you cannot log in. However you can get round this by prefixing your username with the domain as follows: DOMAIN\username, and it will work fine. The problem is that Address Book / iSync cannot connect to the Exchange server with or without the domain prefix in the username. Without it the error is username/password incorrect - which is the correct error since it is looking for the user in the wrong domain. With the domain prefix, the error is that iSync couldn't reach the server - so it looks as if the slash is breaking its URL scheme somehow. Does anyone know of a workaround? Alex From alexfuller at mac.com Fri Nov 7 17:14:03 2003 From: alexfuller at mac.com (Alex Fuller) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out Message-ID: I'm not desperate for it but at least it keeps our options open. We like options. The left hand should tell the right hand what's going on though as the mactopia site still offers only WMP 7 for download. Alex From sstevenson at mac.com Fri Nov 7 18:15:02 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <192EC57A-10FA-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <192EC57A-10FA-11D8-B442-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <43EC125A-1191-11D8-B64C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 12:12 AM, Lukreme wrote: > Well, ok, in a couple of months for testing purposes. Maybe some more > time to add some more drivers to the driver database, but probably not > since most those drivers exist in BSDland. Last time I checked, Mac OS X uses IOKIt and BSD uses... something else. They're not compatible drive models. Printers are a different story because of CUPS/gimp-print. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From lists at drunkenbatman.com Fri Nov 7 18:29:17 2003 From: lists at drunkenbatman.com (db) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <884A2756-1184-11D8-B4D1-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031107192709584173.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <884A2756-1184-11D8-B4D1-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031107212827771104.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:43:12 -0800, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >>>> You can't really claim the OS is platform agnostic except by claiming that Quartz, Aqua, Cocoa etc are platform agnostic, or not parts of the OS. Which would score some points, but I wouldn't say it was actually proving yourself more correct. >>> I can claim either of those or both, and I would still be correct. >> even the parts that are wrappers for carbon? >> > Yes. That's interesting. How would that be? Port carbon over to x86? > ( > "It's perfectly technically feasible to port Panther to any > processor," Jobs said.) Kinda meaningless to this point, isn't it? Feasible is possible- doesn't mean simple, existing, or not a massive undertaking. IE, it's perfectly feasible for MS to port windows to just about any processor it would choose to. From mmalc_lists at mac.com Fri Nov 7 18:38:04 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031107212827771104.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031107192709584173.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <884A2756-1184-11D8-B4D1-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031107212827771104.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: <8C3DD703-1194-11D8-B4D1-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 6:28 PM, db wrote: > On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:43:12 -0800, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >>>>> You can't really claim the OS is platform agnostic except by >>>>> claiming that Quartz, Aqua, Cocoa etc are platform agnostic, or >>>>> not parts of the OS. Which would score some points, but I wouldn't >>>>> say it was actually proving yourself more correct. >>>> I can claim either of those or both, and I would still be correct. >>> even the parts that are wrappers for carbon? >> Yes. > That's interesting. How would that be? Port carbon over to x86? > Umm, well, by implication, yes. Hint: QuickTime is already ported to x86. >> ( >> "It's perfectly technically feasible to port Panther to any >> processor," Jobs said.) > Kinda meaningless to this point, isn't it? Not really. > Feasible is possible- doesn't mean simple, existing, or not a massive > undertaking. IE, it's perfectly feasible for MS to port windows to > just about any processor it would choose to. > Recall this in the context of Jobs' earlier comment, "We like options" -- see "platform agility" thread from a long time ago. I think it very unlikely that Apple is not keeping options open... mmalc From aa4lr at mac.com Fri Nov 7 19:16:02 2003 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: OS X On Intel Message-ID: <20031108031503.OPQK1843.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> On 11/7/03 12:21 AM, Phil Larson at lngtones@mac.com wrote: >How's this for fueling the fire: > >http://news.com.com/2100-1045_3-5103279.html I've always said that moving to Intel processors is Apple's Plan C or D -- only to be executed if Plan A and B both fail.... It's an option. It certainly gives them leverage with their existing processor suppliers. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From ehrich at mninter.net Fri Nov 7 19:58:18 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:17 2005 Subject: .NET a Lock-In To Windows, Perhaps Not... In-Reply-To: <712B1AFC-0FE5-11D8-9F03-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> References: <20031103014108.QRJQ1849.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> <9DAE7FFA-0E29-11D8-BB38-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <712B1AFC-0FE5-11D8-9F03-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> Message-ID: >>>>ported is the runtime. The interesting stuff, like data access, >>>>WinForms, etc. are not part of the open specification and there >>>>are no indications they will ever be ported outside of Windows. >>>Actually, that's just what Mono is doing >>>(http://go-mono.org/asp-net.html). But of course MS makes it hard >>>and the Mono people have to reverse engineer it. So, like Wine it >>>will always be a moving target. >> >> No chance that the DOJ could be told about this, is there? I >>read somewhere that some AGs or some other group is getting >>concerned about MS apparently not doing what little they *were* >>required to do by that settlement. Our current DoJ is more likely to prosecute Mono under DCMA. From thomasv at mac.com Fri Nov 7 20:44:04 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: safari file downloads In-Reply-To: <668259F1-1177-11D8-8A63-0003931CE9CA@casmail.ucsf.edu> References: <668259F1-1177-11D8-8A63-0003931CE9CA@casmail.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: See preferences in Safari. Cheers, Thomas Vincent On Nov 7, 2003, at 3:09 PM, chris thacker wrote: > Is there a way to control-click on a link for a download within Safari > and then specify a download location other than the desktop? either > via a hack or key combo? this is annoying. > > eventually i'd also love more control over downloads... queues, etc > like IE > > ------------------- > Chris Thacker > Campus Life Services - Information Systems > University of California at San Francisco > [ help desk ] 415 502-5511 > [direct line] 415 514-3373 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 664 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031107/aa389f27/attachment.bin From fabienlroy at mac.com Fri Nov 7 20:58:29 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: Steve Ballmer's iPod In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4322754E-11A6-11D8-A4EB-000393658196@mac.com> LOL :-) On Friday, Nov 7, 2003, at 14:50 America/Los_Angeles, Phil Larson wrote: > Steve Ballmer loves his iPod > > http://www.iwantmyflashtv.com/macboy/ballmersipod.swf > > Phil > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From shawnce at mac.com Fri Nov 7 21:21:30 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031107192709584173.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031107192709584173.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: <4312A334-11A9-11D8-AFA6-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 4:27 PM, db wrote: > On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:17:30 -0800, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >>>> No, not at all. The OS remains platform agnostic. >>> Except for all the bits that aren't. >>> You can't really claim the OS is platform agnostic except by >>> claiming that Quartz, Aqua, Cocoa etc are platform agnostic, or not >>> parts of the OS. Which would score some points, but I wouldn't say >>> it was actually proving yourself more correct. >>> >> I can claim either of those or both, and I would still be correct. > > even the parts that are wrappers for carbon? hmm. Carbon is not locked to any platform architecture. It is much like Cocoa in that it is high level enough that it can be recompiled as needed. It was the core, the "kernel", of Mac OS 7/8/9 that was the greatest limiter to porting to other platforms. Darwin is much be setup to do that then Mac OS kernel was. In general Mac OS X is setup very well to be ported rapidly to other archs. This even includes Altivec based optimizations. Many of the those are well hidden/encapsulated behind system frameworks and libraries. -Shawn From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Nov 7 21:23:11 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031107212827771104.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031107192709584173.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <884A2756-1184-11D8-B4D1-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031107212827771104.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: <5AA40680-11A9-11D8-9FD6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 7:28 PM, db wrote: > On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:43:12 -0800, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >>>>> You can't really claim the OS is platform agnostic except by >>>>> claiming that Quartz, Aqua, Cocoa etc are platform agnostic, or >>>>> not parts of the OS. Which would score some points, but I wouldn't >>>>> say it was actually proving yourself more correct. >>>> I can claim either of those or both, and I would still be correct. >>> even the parts that are wrappers for carbon? >>> >> Yes. > > That's interesting. How would that be? Port carbon over to x86? I would suspect that part of making carbon from the Mac OS toolbox was getting rid of processor dependencies. I don't know this but would suspect that that was part of the process. Which would mean, yes, and probably pretty easy too. Remember that much of Mac OS X's underpinnings were running on x86 first, and with Quicktime running on x86 as well, certainly large amounts of Quickdraw and the toolbox are too. The work is probably already done for the most part. I am not saying it is now in shippable form, but I'd suspect that the largest chunk of work is already done. NeXT and Apple seem to have taken lots of pains to avoid processor dependencies in their code. Chad From dave at difference.com.au Fri Nov 7 21:37:24 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: CHUD Hardware Pane In-Reply-To: References: <0CD41419-0FD6-11D8-8611-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> Message-ID: At 5:39 AM -0800 7/11/03, Kevin Callahan wrote: >On Nov 5, 2003, at 1:21 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >>Why does the CHUD Hardware Pane keep turning my L2 cache off ? >> >> >>K > >i posted this a couple of days ago .. just showing up to the list now .... >i have since run the CHUD tools updater and all is fine. what CHUD updater? Cheers David From seiryu at comcast.net Fri Nov 7 22:02:30 2003 From: seiryu at comcast.net (Nick Zitzmann) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: The Secret Graphing Calculator Message-ID: <564B015A-11AF-11D8-9E1E-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> Just read about this one on and thought I'd share... This requires OS X 10.3 of course. 1. Open your Applications folder 2. Get info. on the Calculator 3. Expand the "Plug-ins" inspector 4. Click "Add..." 5. In the panel that comes up, navigate to your Applications folder, and click on Calculator 6. Navigate to the "Resources" folder inside Calculator's bundle 7. Choose "Graphing-2D.calcview" 8. Launch Calculator 9. Notice the new view type that just appeared in the View menu Enjoy! There are also a few other calculator views that are in the Resources folder, but I haven't tried them yet... WARNING: The graphing calculator does not appear to be fully functional yet. In fact, I've been able to freeze the application once already while trying to graph a simple sine wave... Nick Zitzmann AIM/iChat: dragonsdontsleep Check out my software page: http://seiryu.home.comcast.net/ S/MIME signature available upon request "I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone." - Bjarne Stroustrup From seiryu at comcast.net Fri Nov 7 22:04:11 2003 From: seiryu at comcast.net (Nick Zitzmann) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: CHUD Hardware Pane In-Reply-To: References: <0CD41419-0FD6-11D8-8611-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 7, 2003, at 9:10 PM, David Cake wrote: >> i posted this a couple of days ago .. just showing up to the list now >> .... >> i have since run the CHUD tools updater and all is fine. > > what CHUD updater? /Developer/Applications/Performance Tools/CHUD/CHUD Updater.app OS X 10.3 shipped with CHUD 3.0; there's already an update out... Nick Zitzmann AIM/iChat: dragonsdontsleep Check out my software page: http://seiryu.home.comcast.net/ S/MIME signature available upon request "I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone." - Bjarne Stroustrup From kcall at mac.com Fri Nov 7 22:25:43 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <5AA40680-11A9-11D8-9FD6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031107192709584173.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <884A2756-1184-11D8-B4D1-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031107212827771104.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <5AA40680-11A9-11D8-9FD6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <50DD757A-11B2-11D8-A56A-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 9:06 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > On Nov 7, 2003, at 7:28 PM, db wrote: > >> On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:43:12 -0800, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >>>>>> You can't really claim the OS is platform agnostic except by >>>>>> claiming that Quartz, Aqua, Cocoa etc are platform agnostic, or >>>>>> not parts of the OS. Which would score some points, but I >>>>>> wouldn't say it was actually proving yourself more correct. >>>>> I can claim either of those or both, and I would still be correct. >>>> even the parts that are wrappers for carbon? >>>> >>> Yes. >> >> That's interesting. How would that be? Port carbon over to x86? > > I would suspect that part of making carbon from the Mac OS toolbox was > getting rid of processor dependencies. I don't know this but would > suspect that that was part of the process. Which would mean, yes, and > probably pretty easy too. Remember that much of Mac OS X's > underpinnings were running on x86 first, and with Quicktime running on > x86 as well, certainly large amounts of Quickdraw and the toolbox are > too. The work is probably already done for the most part. I am not > saying it is now in shippable form, but I'd suspect that the largest > chunk of work is already done. > > NeXT and Apple seem to have taken lots of pains to avoid processor > dependencies in their code. > > Chad Yes - and it should be obvious that Classic is/was the Achilles heel... and Apple has cleverly healed the wound. - Kevin From fabienlroy at mac.com Fri Nov 7 22:33:45 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: Recursively unlock files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: more efficient (not spawning one proces per file): find folder_to_delete -type f -print0 |xargs -0 /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a l On Tuesday, Nov 4, 2003, at 11:26 America/Los_Angeles, Christopher Elkins wrote: > On Nov 4, 2003, at 9:26 AM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > >> Is there a way I can set all files inside a certain folder to be >> unlocked? Something like this: >> >> # unlock -R folder_to_delete/ > > # find folder_to_delete -type f -exec /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a l {} > \; > > -- > Christopher Elkins > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From surajrai at mac.com Sat Nov 8 00:23:03 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> On Nov 8, 2003, at 10:13 AM, Alex Fuller wrote: > I'm not desperate for it but at least it keeps our options open. We > like options. > > default.aspx> > > The left hand should tell the right hand what's going on though as the > mactopia site still offers only WMP 7 for download. Can the Dual G5s handle the HD content available at: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ ContentShowcase.aspx My powerbook (1.25 Ghz) and my dual 1 Ghz both skip frames when playing the 720p and 1080p T2 sample files. S.r. From surajrai at mac.com Sat Nov 8 00:36:45 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> Message-ID: <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> On Nov 8, 2003, at 5:21 PM, Suraj Rai wrote: > On Nov 8, 2003, at 10:13 AM, Alex Fuller wrote: > >> I'm not desperate for it but at least it keeps our options open. We >> like options. >> >> > osx/default.aspx> >> >> The left hand should tell the right hand what's going on though as >> the mactopia site still offers only WMP 7 for download. > > Can the Dual G5s handle the HD content available at: Never mind...it seems even the Dual G5s skip frames on the HD content: http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page? a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=5330947495 Optimization issue? S.r. From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 8 00:43:40 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> Message-ID: <562ABF50-11C7-11D8-9D1E-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 8 Nov 2003, at 08:35, Suraj Rai wrote: >> Can the Dual G5s handle the HD content available at: > > Never mind...it seems even the Dual G5s skip frames on the HD content: > > http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page? > a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=5330947495 > > Optimization issue? I'd be more inclined to think it was deliberate. M From surajrai at mac.com Sat Nov 8 01:11:08 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <562ABF50-11C7-11D8-9D1E-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <562ABF50-11C7-11D8-9D1E-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <625AF2AB-11CB-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> On Nov 8, 2003, at 5:41 PM, Matt wrote: >> Never mind...it seems even the Dual G5s skip frames on the HD content: >> >> http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page? >> a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=5330947495 >> >> Optimization issue? > > I'd be more inclined to think it was deliberate. Me too. Dan? S.r. From steve at union.arizona.edu Sat Nov 8 01:37:00 2003 From: steve at union.arizona.edu (steve stout) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WWDC DVD In-Reply-To: <56700.4.2.170.194.1067973749.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> References: <65051.4.2.170.194.1067961892.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> <56700.4.2.170.194.1067973749.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: > > Yes. My dual G5 is my first Apple computer. I love it, and would > like to > get up-to-speed as fast as possible, especially with regards to > development. Hence my interest in the WWDC DVD. How much are you willing to pay for a set? *only half joking* ./steve From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Sat Nov 8 03:08:18 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <50DD757A-11B2-11D8-A56A-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031107192709584173.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <884A2756-1184-11D8-B4D1-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031107212827771104.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <5AA40680-11A9-11D8-9FD6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> <50DD757A-11B2-11D8-A56A-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031108110627.GM6539@Dark-Age.local> On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 10:10:56PM -0800, Kevin Callahan wrote: : : On Nov 7, 2003, at 9:06 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: : > : >NeXT and Apple seem to have taken lots of pains to avoid processor : >dependencies in their code. : : Yes - and it should be obvious that Classic is/was the Achilles heel... : and Apple has cleverly healed the wound. Yesterday, OS 9. Today, Classic. Tomorrow, Carbon? ;-) -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From gerard_iglesias at mac.com Sat Nov 8 06:41:42 2003 From: gerard_iglesias at mac.com (Gerard Iglesias) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WWDC DVD In-Reply-To: <56700.4.2.170.194.1067973749.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> References: <65051.4.2.170.194.1067961892.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> <56700.4.2.170.194.1067973749.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: On Nov 4, 2003, at 8:22 PM, Timothy Reaves wrote: > Yes. My dual G5 is my first Apple computer. I love it, and would > like to > get up-to-speed as fast as possible, especially with regards to > development. Hence my interest in the WWDC DVD. Wow, congratulation ;) Yes very nice computer, it is the NeXT NeXT ;) With a Cinema display and Panther it is the dream machine. The first release has been the good one :) Did you watch the 6 free one on the Apple web dev site, they are worth the look. Regards GI From das at doit.wisc.edu Sat Nov 8 07:38:03 2003 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <625AF2AB-11CB-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <562ABF50-11C7-11D8-9D1E-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <625AF2AB-11CB-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> Message-ID: <6ED902C6-1201-11D8-AFDC-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> On Nov 8, 2003, at 3:10 AM, Suraj Rai wrote: > Never mind...it seems even the Dual G5s skip frames on the HD content: >>> >>> http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page? >>> a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=5330947495 >>> >>> Optimization issue? >> >> I'd be more inclined to think it was deliberate. > > Me too. Dan? Dan might not have anything to say about this since MacBU doesn't have anything to do with Windows Media Player for Mac OS...it is a product of the Windows Media group itself. - Dave From jeff at stikman.com Sat Nov 8 09:05:04 2003 From: jeff at stikman.com (Jeff Grossman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: Panther Icon Placement References: <5A9E67CE-076D-11D8-A1AB-000A9566627E@earthlink.net> <20031106073120.GH1680@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: Eugene Lee wrote: >On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 08:19:27AM -0800, Jeff Grossman wrote: >: >: Hsu wrote: >: > >: > Please please please file a bug on this (I know it's already been >: > filed by others) so that Apple knows many people are seeing it. >: > >: Where do I file a bug with Apple? > >http://bugreport.apple.com/ Thanks for the information. I just submitted a bug report for the icon placing. Jeff -- Jeff Grossman (jeff@stikman.com) From treaves at silverfieldstech.com Sat Nov 8 09:20:04 2003 From: treaves at silverfieldstech.com (T Reaves) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WWDC DVD In-Reply-To: References: <65051.4.2.170.194.1067961892.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> <56700.4.2.170.194.1067973749.squirrel@www.silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: On Nov 8, 2003, at 9:29 AM, Gerard Iglesias wrote: > > On Nov 4, 2003, at 8:22 PM, Timothy Reaves wrote: > >> Yes. My dual G5 is my first Apple computer. I love it, and would >> like to >> get up-to-speed as fast as possible, especially with regards to >> development. Hence my interest in the WWDC DVD. > > Wow, congratulation ;) > > Yes very nice computer, it is the NeXT NeXT ;) With a Cinema display > and Panther it is the dream machine. > > The first release has been the good one :) > > Did you watch the 6 free one on the Apple web dev site, they are worth > the look. > > Yes, and I found them interesting. That's why I'd like to watch the rest. And by the way, I have the 23" HD display. I figured if I was going to do it (switch), do it right! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2385 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031108/697c3b4f/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 8 09:28:07 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_weird_Expos=E9_thing?= In-Reply-To: <249E4D14-1145-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <249E4D14-1145-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 07 Nov 2003, at 10:09, Matt wrote: > Anyone think this is a bug? Feature? Feature. It is showing a window that is off-screen and showing it's presence. The same thing happens when Mozilla is one of your apps since mozilla ALWAYS has a off-screen window. -- Clark's Law: Sufficiently advanced cluelessness is indistinguishable from malice Clark Slaw: Anything that has been severely damaged or destroyed by application of Clark's Law From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 8 09:38:07 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: New "Topics" Interface concept for Mail - kind of Views plus Labels In-Reply-To: <395A1D8A-115B-11D8-8D81-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> References: <395A1D8A-115B-11D8-8D81-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: <2F56FBDE-1212-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 07 Nov 2003, at 12:47, Jim Witte wrote: > So why (or do? is this idea all wrong?) do (some) people tend to think > computers are intrinsically different, in *requireing* a sequence, > even when there is no logical reason why that sequence should be > required (there's nothing about having a window open that prevents you > from closing the PPP..) Because these people are not comfortable with the computer. They don't understand it, they don't really like it. it is a complicated box tht they are, at some level, afraid of. When dealing with a machine of unknown power, you treat it very carefully. Consider, if you were supposed to use a $100,000,000 piece of lab equipment to perform a task and you where given a walk-through listing ten steps would you change the order of the steps? That is how most people, and certainly the vast majority of older people, view computers. Once you've figured something out you do it over and over and over again EXACTLY the same way. A friend of my mom's always ejected the (empty) CD drive and then shutdown. Why? he didn't remember, he'd just "always done it that way." With the dishwasher, the person is comfortable with it, and also does not regard it as a terribly complicated machine. -- "Don't be nice. It's Creepy." Tendo Akane From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 8 10:25:09 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> Message-ID: On 08 Nov 2003, at 01:35, Suraj Rai wrote: > Optimization issue? Intentional marginalization of the Mac client by Microsoft? -- So now you know the words to our song, pretty soon you'll all be singing along, when you're sad, when you're lonely and it all turns out wrong... From shawnce at mac.com Sat Nov 8 10:40:04 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_weird_Expos=E9_thing?= In-Reply-To: References: <249E4D14-1145-11D8-8E93-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 8, 2003, at 9:27 AM, Lukreme wrote: > On 07 Nov 2003, at 10:09, Matt wrote: >> Anyone think this is a bug? Feature? > > Feature. It is showing a window that is off-screen and showing it's > presence. The same thing happens when Mozilla is one of your apps > since mozilla ALWAYS has a off-screen window. In my case the window is not off screen just spanning screens. It should move to one or the other, bug. -Shawn From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 8 10:42:08 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> Message-ID: <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 08 Nov 2003, at 11:24, Lukreme wrote: > On 08 Nov 2003, at 01:35, Suraj Rai wrote: >> Optimization issue? > > Intentional marginalization of the Mac client by Microsoft? Yep, I was right. Here's what I get when trying to play a wmp file my brother sent me: >> In order to play this file, you need to upgrade your media player to >> a version compatible with Windows Media Rights Manager V7. Select >> View Compatible Players below to see a list of compatible media >> players. >> >> If your current media player does not have a Windows Media Rights >> Manager V7 compatible version, you should select a different player >> with the Windows Media Rights Manager V7 identifier. -- Lobotomy means never having to say you're sorry -- or anything else. From charlesd at newsguy.com Sat Nov 8 10:56:04 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: At 11:41 -0700 08/11/2003, Lukreme wrote: >On 08 Nov 2003, at 11:24, Lukreme wrote: >>On 08 Nov 2003, at 01:35, Suraj Rai wrote: >>>Optimization issue? >> >>Intentional marginalization of the Mac client by Microsoft? > >Yep, I was right. Here's what I get when trying to play a wmp file >my brother sent me: > >>>In order to play this file, you need to upgrade your media player >>>to a version compatible with Windows Media Rights Manager V7. >>>Select View Compatible Players below to see a list of compatible >>>media players. >>> >>>If your current media player does not have a Windows Media Rights >>>Manager V7 compatible version, you should select a different >>>player with the Windows Media Rights Manager V7 identifier. > > Geez... 1 does anyone _really_ expect anything else from Mickeysoft? Personally I'm pleasantly surprised when a Mickeysoft product _doesn't_ try to hose me. 2 can VLC or MPlayer read that file? -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From jkerr at shore.net Sat Nov 8 11:28:04 2003 From: jkerr at shore.net (Jason Kerr) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: safari file downloads In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, Thomas Vincent wrote: > On Nov 7, 2003, at 3:09 PM, chris thacker wrote: > > > Is there a way to control-click on a link for a download within Safari > > and then specify a download location other than the desktop? either > > via a hack or key combo? this is annoying. > > > > eventually i'd also love more control over downloads... queues, etc > > like IE > > > > ------------------- > > Chris Thacker > > Campus Life Services - Information Systems > > See preferences in Safari. > > Cheers, > Thomas Vincent I think he wanted to be able to specify the location per-download. The preference setting affects all downloads. I agree with Chris, it's annoying. OmniWeb, Camino, and Mozilla/Firebird offer the option, why can't Safari? Jason From rogerhoward at mac.com Sat Nov 8 11:36:03 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On Nov 8, 2003, at 10:55 AM, Charles Dyer wrote: > At 11:41 -0700 08/11/2003, Lukreme wrote: >> On 08 Nov 2003, at 11:24, Lukreme wrote: >>> On 08 Nov 2003, at 01:35, Suraj Rai wrote: >>>> Optimization issue? >>> >>> Intentional marginalization of the Mac client by Microsoft? >> >> Yep, I was right. Here's what I get when trying to play a wmp file >> my brother sent me: >> >>>> In order to play this file, you need to upgrade your media player >>>> to a version compatible with Windows Media Rights Manager V7. >>>> Select View Compatible Players below to see a list of compatible >>>> media players. >>>> >>>> If your current media player does not have a Windows Media Rights >>>> Manager V7 compatible version, you should select a different player >>>> with the Windows Media Rights Manager V7 identifier. >> >> > > Geez... > > 1 does anyone _really_ expect anything else from Mickeysoft? > Personally I'm pleasantly surprised when a Mickeysoft product > _doesn't_ try to hose me. > > 2 can VLC or MPlayer read that file? Implementing modern DRM is a major project - the WM team indicated that they are interested in implementing RM v7 but didn't want to hold up WM9 support for it, but that they are at least looking at it. The issue is simple for them - they have to make sure any DRM v7 implementation is as good as on Windows, to prevent the Mac from becoming a tool for piracy of WM DRM content... if they can get a version out as bullet-proof as on Windows then they'll do it. I'm not surprised, I'm just happy to have a decent WM9 player on Mac OSX now... it's better than the previous player (the browser plugin works much better for instance). As for HD content, it also barely plays on the highest-end single proc PCs you can build so it's not a huge surprise it's not quite capable on the Mac, even without intentional hobbling. You may see a conspiracy, I just see a lack of motivation - it's not a money-maker, they could have simply opted to stay off the Mac with WM9 and leave it to third-parties licensing their SDKs... I for one am happy we have this release, as limited as it may be. And no, VLC doesn't have full WM9 support, nor any DRM support. -R From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 8 11:44:07 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: Something I don't get about the iTMS In-Reply-To: <49AA0053-10DD-11D8-BB25-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> References: <8DBB0E85-0F85-11D8-97FA-000393AE3644@mac.com> <533CCA2D-0FA7-11D8-9518-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> <57A97A90-0FEC-11D8-A5B9-000393A335A2@mac.com> <78A2CD8C-10A5-11D8-9936-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <49AA0053-10DD-11D8-BB25-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: at 20031106, 23:46 -0500, they whom i call Jim Witte wrote: >The industry argues their profits are declining because of piracy. >Probably to some degree. But at about the same time Napster hit the >scene, Amazon and Ebay also presented a convenient place to sell >used CDs. the used recording market predates it's online segment by a few decades.. i've never purchased a used recording online, but i'm sure i've purchased thousands from local retailers over the last 30 years.. i'd be surprised of online sales of used recordings have changed the overall proportion much -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 8 11:45:05 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: Travelling with Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <886CBE31-0F68-11D8-9078-000393A7795C@mac.com> References: <643CBF80-0DEA-11D8-81A7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <886CBE31-0F68-11D8-9078-000393A7795C@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031105, 02:17 -0600, they whom i call Glenn Carnagey wrote: > And I would be really shocked if Seattle didn't have more Starbucks >per sq ft than any other city, including Manhattan -- Seattle is the >mothership. :-) for those resisting infection by the Starbucks virus, there are various websites which help one locate hotspots.. not hard to Google.. for instance i found this one for Seattle: -- steve harley From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 8 12:25:17 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 08 Nov 2003, at 12:35, Roger Howard wrote: > if they can get a version out as bullet-proof as on Windows then > they'll do it. Bwahahahahahahahaha. er.. ahem. you said "bullet-proof" and "Windows" in the same sentence Come on, does anyone really believe MSFTs DRM won't be cracked like a week-old crab left on a sun-bleached rock? -- Though it's cold and lonely in the deep dark night I can see paradise by the dashboard light. From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 8 12:27:04 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: Something I don't get about the iTMS In-Reply-To: References: <8DBB0E85-0F85-11D8-97FA-000393AE3644@mac.com> <533CCA2D-0FA7-11D8-9518-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> <57A97A90-0FEC-11D8-A5B9-000393A335A2@mac.com> <78A2CD8C-10A5-11D8-9936-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <49AA0053-10DD-11D8-BB25-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: On 08 Nov 2003, at 12:27, steve harley wrote: > at 20031106, 23:46 -0500, they whom i call Jim Witte wrote: >> The industry argues their profits are declining because of piracy. >> Probably to some degree. But at about the same time Napster hit the >> scene, Amazon and Ebay also presented a convenient place to sell used >> CDs. > > the used recording market predates it's online segment by a > few decades.. i've never purchased a used recording online, > but i'm sure i've purchased thousands from local retailers > over the last 30 years.. i'd be surprised of online sales of > used recordings have changed the overall proportion much Sure it did. the Internet made it easy, and cheap, to buy Used _CDs_ This was not the case (and is still not the case with brick and mortar stores) where a good store selling used CDs is charging $7-10. Compare that to spending $2-3 online... -- It was intended that when Newspeak had been adopted once and for all and Oldspeak forgotten, a heretical thought...should be literally unthinkable, at least so far as thought is dependent on words. From rogerhoward at mac.com Sat Nov 8 13:11:03 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> On Nov 8, 2003, at 12:22 PM, Lukreme wrote: > On 08 Nov 2003, at 12:35, Roger Howard wrote: >> if they can get a version out as bullet-proof as on Windows then >> they'll do it. > > Bwahahahahahahahaha. > > er.. ahem. > > > > you said "bullet-proof" and "Windows" in the same sentence > > And you snicker at reality because of some misguided religious position on operating systems. I'm not promoting Windows here, just explaining the rationale that has been quite reasonably explained to me. > Come on, does anyone really believe MSFTs DRM won't be cracked like a > week-old crab left on a sun-bleached rock? I didn't say I didn't believe it could be cracked, though it's been out for several years on the most cracker-prone platform and is yet to be cracked. The WM team has explicitly expressed that they are very interested in getting WM DRM7 onto Mac OSX, but that the concern is making sure it is up to the standard of the existing release on Windows. DRM7 *will* eventually be cracked; Microsoft knows this, they have planned for it. Microsoft isn't nearly as clueless as you'd like to think, and I thinnk that underestimation on your part is blinding you to reality: Microsoft has, currently, the best platform for DRM, the best streaming codecs, and the best HD codecs on the open market. We can debate all day long HOW they got to this point - monopolistic action, yes - but I'm simply making comments based on the current state of things, not the way I wish they were. You can denegrate Windows all you want, and laugh at my statements based on a dislike of Microsoft and Windows, but that's all it's based on. I try to bring a balanced, informed perspective here about digital media issues; I work with WM and WM developers all the time, and have spoken to various Microsoft employees about this. Just because you want to believe it's an Us vs Them game doesn't mean the Windows Media developers see it that way; but you can be damned sure they won't release a version of their DRM for any other platforms unless they are just as sure of it's robustness on those platforms as it is on Windows. If you dispute the robustness of DRM7 on Windows then I don't think you know what you're talking about. Politically, I'm not a fan of WM or MS DRM. Technically, I am. -R From lomion at mac.com Sat Nov 8 15:27:27 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: They'll rue the day they abandoned the Mac In-Reply-To: References: <2B4182F3-10AC-11D8-973F-003065C4548E@mac.com> <87D5C3BF-10F6-11D8-9D0C-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: <93490340-1242-11D8-B9D9-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 7, 2003, at 4:44 AM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > On Nov 7, 2003, at 12:46 AM, Jared Earle wrote: > >> On 6 Nov 2003, at 23:54, Thomas Vincent wrote: >>> Look at PDF. PDF has overtaken .doc to become the defacto standard >>> for the transmission of documents across organizations. >> >> It has? Damn, then I can send recruiters my CV as a PDF now? >> > > I do. If they complain I tell them I don't have a Windows box and I > don't have Word and that I use industry standard formats like PDF and > not proprietary formats like Word. They have all accommodated me. > Alot of recruiters and HR depts are asking for plain text over word docs now, due to virus issues. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031108/277532c7/smime.bin From lomion at mac.com Sat Nov 8 15:27:54 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: CHUD Hardware Pane In-Reply-To: References: <0CD41419-0FD6-11D8-8611-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 8, 2003, at 12:52 AM, Nick Zitzmann wrote: > > On Nov 7, 2003, at 9:10 PM, David Cake wrote: > >>> i posted this a couple of days ago .. just showing up to the list >>> now .... >>> i have since run the CHUD tools updater and all is fine. >> >> what CHUD updater? > > /Developer/Applications/Performance Tools/CHUD/CHUD Updater.app > > OS X 10.3 shipped with CHUD 3.0; there's already an update out... > Xcode Tools shipped with it, not 10.3 --Larry \ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031108/a5344877/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 8 15:42:04 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: <83201B06-1244-11D8-A778-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 08 Nov 2003, at 14:10, Roger Howard wrote: > On Nov 8, 2003, at 12:22 PM, Lukreme wrote: > >> On 08 Nov 2003, at 12:35, Roger Howard wrote: >>> if they can get a version out as bullet-proof as on Windows then >>> they'll do it. >> >> Bwahahahahahahahaha. >> >> er.. ahem. >> >> >> >> you said "bullet-proof" and "Windows" in the same sentence >> >> > > And you snicker at reality because of some misguided religious > position on operating systems. I'm not promoting Windows here, just > explaining the rationale that has been quite reasonably explained to > me. No, this has nothing to do specifically with Windows, but more with MSFT which, as far as I know, has yet to produce anything that hasn't been cracked. Including the secure password tables of NT which were, according to Microsoft, completely secure. turns out they had an over-reliance on NTFS's inaccessibility to linux and linux cracking tools. As soon as someone hacked together a linux floppy that could read NTFS the password databases were not secure at all, but in fact trivially easy to crack. With the amount of effort that is going to be spent on trying to break the DRM security, and with MSFT's well tracked record of not understanding the basic fundamentals of even the concept of security, I simply don't believe that it won't be cracked. Besides, it _IS_ Microsoft, an that does give people _a lot_ of extra incentive. > I didn't say I didn't believe it could be cracked, though it's been > out for several years on the most cracker-prone platform and is yet to > be cracked. It may have been out for several years, but in point of how prevalent it is, it's really just starting to be a presence. > The WM team has explicitly expressed that they are very interested in > getting WM DRM7 onto Mac OSX, Microsoft also claimed that Halo development on the Mac would not be stopped. And still claims it's coming out. > DRM7 *will* eventually be cracked; Microsoft knows this, they have > planned for it. I wonder if all the buyers of WM9 who are using it to secure their media know that MSFT is planning on the encryption being cracked? Do you think it is in the sales brochures? "Use WM9 with our state-of-the-art-DRM (should be secure through 2006) to protect all your digital data (for the next couple of years)." > Microsoft has, currently, the best platform for DRM, the best > streaming codecs, and the best HD codecs on the open market. We can > debate all day long HOW they got to this point - monopolistic action, > yes - but I'm simply making comments based on the current state of > things, not the way I wish they were. I never said anything about the quality of WM9. I don't know anything about it. I've never SEEN WM9 data because the WM9 player just came out and the only piece of WM9 media I have won't play in it. > but you can be damned sure they won't release a version of their DRM > for any other platforms unless they are just as sure of it's > robustness on those platforms as it is on Windows. Robustness is a long way from "bullet-proof" -- "Here comes sunrise. Yeah, here's your sunrise. I used to hide from the sun, tried to live my whole life underground, why'd you have to rise and ruin all my fun? Just turn over; close the curtains on the day." From lists at drunkenbatman.com Sat Nov 8 16:00:10 2003 From: lists at drunkenbatman.com (db) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <83201B06-1244-11D8-A778-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> <83201B06-1244-11D8-A778-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <20031108185919013922.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 16:37:27 -0700, Lukreme wrote: > With the amount of effort that is going to be spent on trying to > break the DRM security, and with MSFT's well tracked record of not > understanding the basic fundamentals of even the concept of security, Uh, I know some people who work for microsoft. They understand security, the upper ups just have a habit of choosing convenience over security for a variety of reasons. There are extremely bright people at MS at all levels, to act like its one big hive mind of ineptitude is well, a bit demonizing & silly. From lomion at mac.com Sat Nov 8 16:46:02 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <20031108185919013922.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> <83201B06-1244-11D8-A778-000A95935598@kreme.com> <20031108185919013922.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: On Nov 8, 2003, at 6:59 PM, db wrote: > On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 16:37:27 -0700, Lukreme wrote: >> With the amount of effort that is going to be spent on trying to >> break the DRM security, and with MSFT's well tracked record of not >> understanding the basic fundamentals of even the concept of security, > > Uh, I know some people who work for microsoft. They understand > security, the upper ups just have a habit of choosing convenience over > security for a variety of reasons. There are extremely bright people > at MS at all levels, to act like its one big hive mind of ineptitude > is well, a bit demonizing & silly. Maybe, but it is the stuff that is released and said that matters. 1000000 smart ppl being controlled by one dumb person making the decisions nullifies those smart people if they are ignored or hamstrung.... So maybe the ppl are smart but the corporate culture does not portray that --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031108/d09c0040/smime.bin From jpb at ApesSeekingKnowledge.net Sat Nov 8 17:06:01 2003 From: jpb at ApesSeekingKnowledge.net (Joe Block) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:18 2005 Subject: safari file downloads In-Reply-To: <668259F1-1177-11D8-8A63-0003931CE9CA@casmail.ucsf.edu> References: <668259F1-1177-11D8-8A63-0003931CE9CA@casmail.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: <2B737474-124E-11D8-8953-000393102F9E@ApesSeekingKnowledge.net> On Nov 7, 2003, at 6:09 PM, chris thacker wrote: > Is there a way to control-click on a link for a download within Safari > and then specify a download location other than the desktop? either > via a hack or key combo? this is annoying. What I find even more annoying is that it won't let me specify a name for the file. When I download an image from a friend's online gallery, for example, I may want to rename it Liana-with-kitty.jpg rather than IMG2003081401.jpg. jpb -- Joe Block Indeed it would not be an exaggeration to describe the history of the personal computer industry as a massive effort to keep up with Apple...[The Macintosh] went on to pioneer or popularize almost every innovation in personal computers." - BYTE, December 1994 From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 8 17:08:01 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: Something I don't get about the iTMS In-Reply-To: References: <8DBB0E85-0F85-11D8-97FA-000393AE3644@mac.com> <533CCA2D-0FA7-11D8-9518-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> <57A97A90-0FEC-11D8-A5B9-000393A335A2@mac.com> <78A2CD8C-10A5-11D8-9936-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <49AA0053-10DD-11D8-BB25-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: at 20031108, 13:25 -0700, they whom i call Lukreme wrote: >Compare that to spending $2-3 online... i guess i don't know where to find prices like that.. i did a quick look for jazz discs ... most everything at Amazon was $7 and up; rare items $5.. a sampling of ebay prices were lower, but rarely $3, and most auctions added a $3 shipping charge, with only a few offering reduced shipping for multiple discs so ebay seems to be slightly lower than the local stores, and Amazon slightly higher.. if $2-3 per disc were rule online, i don't see why anyone would bother with itms -- steve harley From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Sat Nov 8 17:13:01 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <20031108185919013922.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> <83201B06-1244-11D8-A778-000A95935598@kreme.com> <20031108185919013922.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: On Nov 8, 2003, at 23:59, db wrote: > On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 16:37:27 -0700, Lukreme wrote: >> With the amount of effort that is going to be spent on trying to >> break the DRM security, and with MSFT's well tracked record of not >> understanding the basic fundamentals of even the concept of security, > > Uh, I know some people who work for microsoft. They understand > security, the upper ups just have a habit of choosing convenience over > security for a variety of reasons. Besides, generally speaking, being smart is just a tool. It's the goal that matters. And maybe the smart people have calculated that having bullet proof security matters less in the market than having the illusion of bullet proof security. What really matters is making the product succeed in the market. So that's simply their goal. The smart thing to do is to make the faulty product successful. And work on the quality only if you really really have to. And if the market wants something and it's too hard to deliver it quickly, just deliver something that looks like what the market wants--by the time everyone realizes it doesn't work, you've got the next product ready. People are gonna upgrade anyway. It's keeping the return customers that counts. So lock-in is really really important. Not quality. Quality is for losers. [1] Stefano [1] This is a partial view. From jonathan at betweenboxes.com Sat Nov 8 17:16:02 2003 From: jonathan at betweenboxes.com (Jonathan Heron) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: VPN (in general and in relation to Panther) Message-ID: Hi all, Does anybody know of a good primer on-line on what VPN is about? Just the basics of how it works, the different protocols (PPTP vs L2TP), and what it means for the user connecting in. To give some context to my query... my company currently has one user who connects in over the net to control a Mac running Timbuktu. Our router (ZyWall 10) is nicely set up to only allow connections from a specific IP, and routes all connections to the relevant ports through to the Timbuktu machine. However, we want to have up to three more people doing the same thing with three additional Timbuktu (or Apple Remote Desktop) machines. Timbuktu does not allow the port settings to be changed (which would make the set up very straight forward), and from the little digging around I've done it looks like my router will not allow me to set up a rule such as: For packets from to port XXX, route to For packets from (please excuse the lay-speak in my rule description above) So that leaves another possible easy route closed to me. So then the thought occurred to me to check out what VPNs are all about. To my knowledge, once a VPN connection is in place, the remote machine is assigned a local IP and to all intents and purposes is 'on' the LAN. Is this the case? Thus, if I have a remote office on a broadband connection with a VPN connection to the main office, will the remote machine be able to use network services exactly as if it were on the LAN? If that's the case, I'd be able to tell remote user 'A' to connect to one IP address on the LAN (eg 192.168.1.60), and tell remote user 'B' to connect to another IP on the LAN (eg 192.168.1.61). Am I correct? (again, apologies if my explanation is less than crystal clear. Now, I have to routes open to me for VPN'ing: 1/ use Panther clients and Panther server, and connect that way 2/ use VPN support in the ZyWalls to connect What would be the benefits/downsides of each route? Thanks in advance for any help. Regards, Jonathan Heron From jer at mia.net Sat Nov 8 18:23:01 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: Panther does not work, anyone else have troubles with the install CDs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9FCB1E64-125B-11D8-9111-000393D650E2@mia.net> I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but I have a perplexing problem with Panther. So far every machine I have tried to install Panther on has the same problem. 1. Install Panther upgrade option from CD1 2. Install completes, reboots, asks for CD2 3. Insert CD2, it reads it, then kicks it out 4. Re-insert CD2, reads, kicks it out 5. ditto 6. Cancel install 7. Panther boot up normally and I can set up my computer Is there a problem with some install CD's or is this expected behaivor? I tried the upgrade option, the move old system and install new one, and finally the erase and install, and each time the #2 CD is rejected. What gives? I have tried this on a 14.1" iBook, and 12" iBook, a Dual G4 1Ghz, an eMac, and my home G3 with a G4 upgrade card. So far every system has the same problem. Finally, even though the install completes even after canceling, I have strange problems on some machines. -50 errors, permissions errors, cannot save things, cannot download things, basically cannot write to the disk. What is a -50 error anyway? Apple's support site yield nothing on this. I have asked about these problems at the Genius bar at my local Apple Store and to no avail, no one has seen this problem. Are my CD's bad? Anyone? thanx. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 8 19:49:05 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: Something I don't get about the iTMS In-Reply-To: References: <8DBB0E85-0F85-11D8-97FA-000393AE3644@mac.com> <533CCA2D-0FA7-11D8-9518-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> <57A97A90-0FEC-11D8-A5B9-000393A335A2@mac.com> <78A2CD8C-10A5-11D8-9936-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> <49AA0053-10DD-11D8-BB25-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: <8713BD64-1267-11D8-A778-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 08 Nov 2003, at 17:48, steve harley wrote: > at 20031108, 13:25 -0700, they whom i call Lukreme wrote: >> Compare that to spending $2-3 online... > > i guess i don't know where to find prices like that.. i did > a quick look for jazz discs ... most everything at Amazon > was $7 and up; rare items $5.. a sampling of ebay prices > were lower, but rarely $3, and most auctions added a $3 > shipping charge, with only a few offering reduced shipping > for multiple discs > > so ebay seems to be slightly lower than the local stores, > and Amazon slightly higher.. if $2-3 per disc were rule > online, i don't see why anyone would bother with itms I guess prices are higher then they were in 1997-1999 when I was still buying CDs. I bought collections of 10-15 CDs off ebay/ for $20-50 several times. -- Love is like oxygen/You get too much/you get too high/Not enough and you're gonna die From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 8 19:54:06 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <20031108185919013922.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> <83201B06-1244-11D8-A778-000A95935598@kreme.com> <20031108185919013922.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: <443495FC-1268-11D8-A778-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 08 Nov 2003, at 16:59, db wrote: > On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 16:37:27 -0700, Lukreme wrote: >> With the amount of effort that is going to be spent on trying to >> break the DRM security, and with MSFT's well tracked record of not >> understanding the basic fundamentals of even the concept of security, > > Uh, I know some people who work for microsoft. They understand > security, the upper ups just have a habit of choosing convenience over > security for a variety of reasons. There are extremely bright people > at MS at all levels, to act like its one big hive mind of ineptitude > is well, a bit demonizing & silly. There are THOUSANDS of smart people at Microsoft. In fact, i would say the vast majority of people there are smart. And I was not talking about _people_ but about the company itself. The company itself has never once chosen good practices over smoke and mirrors. It doesn't matter how smart the people are when the corporate mentality is sub-apr and totally unconcerned with doing anything right. From waht I hear, the decision to break Kerberos authentication was made intentionally as corporate policy and was not a design decision, although the drive was to break it in such a way that it was compliant with the spec but would not interoperate with any non-MSFT kerberos. Of course that was off the record and at least third hand to me, so take it with a day's supply of salt.... -- Love is like oxygen/You get too much/you get too high/Not enough and you're gonna die From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 8 19:57:23 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: VPN (in general and in relation to Panther) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 08 Nov 2003, at 18:15, Jonathan Heron wrote: > Thus, if I have a remote office on a broadband connection with a > VPN connection to the main office, will the remote machine be able to > use > network services exactly as if it were on the LAN As I understand VPNs, yes, that's exactly right. -- Love seeketh not itself to please Nor for itself hath any care But for another gives it's ease And builds a heaven in Hell's despair From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 8 20:05:04 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: Panther does not work, anyone else have troubles with the install CDs? In-Reply-To: <9FCB1E64-125B-11D8-9111-000393D650E2@mia.net> References: <9FCB1E64-125B-11D8-9111-000393D650E2@mia.net> Message-ID: On 08 Nov 2003, at 19:22, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but I have a perplexing > problem with Panther. So far every machine I have tried to install > Panther on has the same problem. Same CDs? > 3. Insert CD2, it reads it, then kicks it out > 4. Re-insert CD2, reads, kicks it out I've intalled Panther on 6 Macs (differnet disks) and have not seen this. When CD2 is ejected the isntall is done and it says so. > What is a -50 error anyway? From memory, "Volume Could not be removed/unmounted/ejected" -- Heisenberg's only uncertainty was what pub to vomit in next and Jung fancied Freud's mother too. -- Jared Earle From jer at mia.net Sat Nov 8 21:53:02 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: Panther does not work, anyone else have troubles with the install CDs? In-Reply-To: References: <9FCB1E64-125B-11D8-9111-000393D650E2@mia.net> Message-ID: On Nov 8, 2003, at 10:04 PM, Lukreme wrote: > On 08 Nov 2003, at 19:22, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >> I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but I have a perplexing >> problem with Panther. So far every machine I have tried to install >> Panther on has the same problem. > > Same CDs? Yes. Since it did not work on one Mac, I tried another, and another, etc.. > >> 3. Insert CD2, it reads it, then kicks it out >> 4. Re-insert CD2, reads, kicks it out > > I've intalled Panther on 6 Macs (differnet disks) and have not seen > this. When CD2 is ejected the isntall is done and it says so. Not for me.. I must have a bad CD set. > >> What is a -50 error anyway? > > From memory, "Volume Could not be removed/unmounted/ejected" When this happens, I cannot write anything to the disk. > Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From rogerhoward at mac.com Sat Nov 8 22:36:07 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <83201B06-1244-11D8-A778-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> <83201B06-1244-11D8-A778-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On Nov 8, 2003, at 3:37 PM, Lukreme wrote: > On 08 Nov 2003, at 14:10, Roger Howard wrote: >> On Nov 8, 2003, at 12:22 PM, Lukreme wrote: >> >>> On 08 Nov 2003, at 12:35, Roger Howard wrote: >>>> if they can get a version out as bullet-proof as on Windows then >>>> they'll do it. >>> >>> Bwahahahahahahahaha. >>> >>> er.. ahem. >>> >>> >>> >>> you said "bullet-proof" and "Windows" in the same sentence >>> >>> >> >> And you snicker at reality because of some misguided religious >> position on operating systems. I'm not promoting Windows here, just >> explaining the rationale that has been quite reasonably explained to >> me. > > No, this has nothing to do specifically with Windows, but more with > MSFT which, as far as I know, has yet to produce anything that hasn't > been cracked. Including the secure password tables of NT which were, > according to Microsoft, completely secure. turns out they had an > over-reliance on NTFS's inaccessibility to linux and linux cracking > tools. As soon as someone hacked together a linux floppy that could > read NTFS the password databases were not secure at all, but in fact > trivially easy to crack. DRM v7 has yet to be cracked, it's been out in the wild for several years now at least and been the subject of rigorous analysis. The WM-Talk mailing list gets frequent probes from folks obviously looking for any foothold or tidbit to help make a pass at it... > With the amount of effort that is going to be spent on trying to break > the DRM security, and with MSFT's well tracked record of not > understanding the basic fundamentals of even the concept of security, > I simply don't believe that it won't be cracked. > > Besides, it _IS_ Microsoft, an that does give people _a lot_ of extra > incentive. I agree - it is, by default, the most targeted platform, and MS DRM will be under scrutiny for many years. It has already been under severe scrutiny, and it may well be cracked still before the launch of their next DRM platform; if it is, they will be spinning it hard if it is a fundamental crack - but if it's a limited crack, they will patch it and move on. I have no illusions about Microsoft's track record, though I don't think Internet security and DRM are the same. DRM is what Microsoft wished the Internet was - a trusted web... in some ways, end-to-end DRM is simpler as you don't have to deal with unsigned code, with allowing access to just any packet that comes a-knockin. Also, for the record, previous Microsoft DRM's were cracked, though in limited ways and I can't comment on specifics. By all indications, they learned a lot from these events. I'm not disputing Microsoft's sloppy security habits in the past, but perhaps when it comes to operating systems they have little incentive to be unbreakable - no upgrades would be needed... but with DRM, it's a solution that helps sell a lot of Microsoft product, so the incentive *is* there. In all the hundreds of security advisories over the past few years, I can't recall one that had any significant impact on their DRM system. >> I didn't say I didn't believe it could be cracked, though it's been >> out for several years on the most cracker-prone platform and is yet >> to be cracked. > > It may have been out for several years, but in point of how prevalent > it is, it's really just starting to be a presence. Actually, WM DRM has been extremely prevalent in streaming applications, and is also quite popular now for downloadable media, and even some that ship on plastic (the latest WM "HD" tests, like the Terminator special edition, and the Motown DVD). It's been the subject of more crack attempts and energy than any technology I've seen in recent years, certainly than anything since DVD was launched, since it's the foundation for a lot of things on Windows. Because of this ubiquity, they also stand to lose a lot if the entire system were compromised - the bigger they are, the harder they fall - but that's what I meant by my comment that it was planned from the beginning that it could be cracked... wise planning, if you ask anyone in the DRM field, especially after what happened with DVD. Don't take me as a DRM fan - I'm not - just someone who works with people who know the stuff, and when it comes to DRM architectures nothing is more popular with developers or content providers than WM DRM. >> The WM team has explicitly expressed that they are very interested >> in getting WM DRM7 onto Mac OSX, > > Microsoft also claimed that Halo development on the Mac would not be > stopped. And still claims it's coming out. Fine, if you want to counter everything tit for tat we can go around for hours. Weeee. I think MS record on Halo has absolutely nothing to do with their desire to produce DRM for Mac OS. All of their content partners - BBC to ESPN to, well, everyone, has asked for two things: a decent Mac client, and Mac DRM v7 support. We now have the first part, and they've indicated interest in bringing the other half to the Mac. I'm not taking any of it as a promise, just passing along the dialog. >> DRM7 *will* eventually be cracked; Microsoft knows this, they have >> planned for it. > > I wonder if all the buyers of WM9 who are using it to secure their > media know that MSFT is planning on the encryption being cracked? Do > you think it is in the sales brochures? "Use WM9 with our > state-of-the-art-DRM (should be secure through 2006) to protect all > your digital data (for the next couple of years)." You miss my point - the architecture is built to be a bit flexible enough to stand a typical crack, unlike CSS, which fell because of the compromise of a single key. > >> Microsoft has, currently, the best platform for DRM, the best >> streaming codecs, and the best HD codecs on the open market. We can >> debate all day long HOW they got to this point - monopolistic action, >> yes - but I'm simply making comments based on the current state of >> things, not the way I wish they were. > > I never said anything about the quality of WM9. I don't know anything > about it. I've never SEEN WM9 data because the WM9 player just came > out and the only piece of WM9 media I have won't play in it. Well WM9 has been out for a good while on Windows, and it's a very fine piece of work. WM Player on Mac OS is a whole different story - very limited compared to the Windows offering. > >> but you can be damned sure they won't release a version of their DRM >> for any other platforms unless they are just as sure of it's >> robustness on those platforms as it is on Windows. > > Robustness is a long way from "bullet-proof" I never meant to imply it was perfect or uncrackable. For the record, it isn't, it can be cracked given the time and bright enough folks who care enough to bother. It is also, like all DRM I suspect, a good bit of smoke and mirrors. I know FairPlay is, to a degree, and I'm not sad about that - I'd much rather smoke and mirrors, than a locked-down blackbox which only runs signed code approved by my OS provider. I think we've beat this horse sufficiently far down, but if you want to continue I'm game :) Cheers, Roger From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 8 22:53:03 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: safari file downloads In-Reply-To: <2B737474-124E-11D8-8953-000393102F9E@ApesSeekingKnowledge .net> References: <668259F1-1177-11D8-8A63-0003931CE9CA@casmail.ucsf.edu> <2B737474-124E-11D8-8953-000393102F9E@ApesSeekingKnowledge .net> Message-ID: at 20031108, 19:46 -0500, they whom i call Joe Block wrote: >On Nov 7, 2003, at 6:09 PM, chris thacker wrote: > >>Is there a way to control-click on a link for a >>download within Safari and then specify a >>download location other than the desktop? >>either via a hack or key combo? this is >>annoying. > >What I find even more annoying is that it won't >let me specify a name for the file. When I >download an image from a friend's online >gallery, for example, I may want to rename it >Liana-with-kitty.jpg rather than >IMG2003081401.jpg. my workaround with browser images is simply to drag them from the browser to a location.. if Finder isn't adequately visible, i command-tab to it while dragging.. Expos? should facilitate this also if it's crucial that you get the ability to rename, and the items in question are draggable from Safari, i suggest creating a drop folder to serve as the drag destination, then writing a folder action script to bring up a file dialog for where to move and what to rename any dragged items -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Sat Nov 8 22:54:05 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: Panther does not work, anyone else have troubles with the install CDs? In-Reply-To: <9FCB1E64-125B-11D8-9111-000393D650E2@mia.net> References: <9FCB1E64-125B-11D8-9111-000393D650E2@mia.net> Message-ID: at 20031108, 20:22 -0600, they whom i call Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but I have a perplexing >problem with Panther. So far every machine I have tried to install >Panther on has the same problem. > >1. Install Panther upgrade option from CD1 >2. Install completes, reboots, asks for CD2 >3. Insert CD2, it reads it, then kicks it out i've seen several reports of a corrupt CD 2.. probably a manufacturing defect.. some people have gotten direct replacement discs at an Apple Store or other retailer, for others it was harder -- steve harley From kcall at mac.com Sat Nov 8 23:09:00 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: Panther does not work, anyone else have troubles with the install CDs? In-Reply-To: References: <9FCB1E64-125B-11D8-9111-000393D650E2@mia.net> Message-ID: <724BEF70-1283-11D8-9B3B-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> On Nov 8, 2003, at 10:51 PM, steve harley wrote: > at 20031108, 20:22 -0600, they whom i call Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >> I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but I have a perplexing >> problem with Panther. So far every machine I have tried to install >> Panther on has the same problem. >> >> 1. Install Panther upgrade option from CD1 >> 2. Install completes, reboots, asks for CD2 >> 3. Insert CD2, it reads it, then kicks it out > > i've seen several reports of a corrupt CD 2.. probably a > manufacturing defect.. some people have gotten direct > replacement discs at an Apple Store or other retailer, for > others it was harder I was at the Apple store in Univ. Village (Seattle) the other day ... guy at the genius bar said there was a batch of bad Panther CD's out there which caused installation problems. k > > -- > steve harley > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sun Nov 9 01:03:05 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <20031108185919013922.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> <83201B06-1244-11D8-A778-000A95935598@kreme.com> <20031108185919013922.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: <67B3327C-1293-11D8-9E9E-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> On Nov 9, 2003, at 12:59 AM, db wrote: > Uh, I know some people who work for microsoft. They understand > security, the upper ups just have a habit of choosing convenience over > security for a variety of reasons. There are extremely bright people > at MS at all levels, to act like its one big hive mind of ineptitude > is well, a bit demonizing & silly. But as far as the "upper ups" still do what they do, it will continue to appear as a big hive mind of ineptitude. It's that simple, really. No matter how bright your friends are, no matter how bright is the people working there, the fact is that Microsoft is the laughingstock of the security community. And the fact is that Longhorn development seems like a headless chicken that is going nowhere. And the fact is that they do so much stuff wrong and so many of their designs are so bad that you get to a point in which you start to think: how bright a mind could be to keep working in a place in which the "upper ups" make them look like stupid monkeys? j. From jmetz at communiweb.net Sun Nov 9 01:38:01 2003 From: jmetz at communiweb.net (J Michel Metz) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: The Secret Graphing Calculator In-Reply-To: <564B015A-11AF-11D8-9E1E-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> References: <564B015A-11AF-11D8-9E1E-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> Message-ID: <50A4573A-1298-11D8-8C7E-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> > > Enjoy! There are also a few other calculator views that are in the > Resources folder, but I haven't tried them yet... That's pretty cool. Are there other apps with this "plug-in" functionality? J From fabienlroy at mac.com Sun Nov 9 07:59:00 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <67B3327C-1293-11D8-9E9E-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> Message-ID: <96F6B7B8-12CD-11D8-B1B3-000393658196@mac.com> Specially with their CEO acting like a monkey on stage. Fabien. On Sunday, Nov 9, 2003, at 01:02 America/Los_Angeles, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > > On Nov 9, 2003, at 12:59 AM, db wrote: > >> Uh, I know some people who work for microsoft. They understand >> security, the upper ups just have a habit of choosing convenience >> over security for a variety of reasons. There are extremely bright >> people at MS at all levels, to act like its one big hive mind of >> ineptitude is well, a bit demonizing & silly. > > But as far as the "upper ups" still do what they do, it will continue > to appear as a big hive mind of ineptitude. > > It's that simple, really. No matter how bright your friends are, no > matter how bright is the people working there, the fact is that > Microsoft is the laughingstock of the security community. And the fact > is that Longhorn development seems like a headless chicken that is > going nowhere. And the fact is that they do so much stuff wrong and so > many of their designs are so bad that you get to a point in which you > start to think: how bright a mind could be to keep working in a place > in which the "upper ups" make them look like stupid monkeys? > > j. > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From charlesd at newsguy.com Sun Nov 9 08:42:01 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <96F6B7B8-12CD-11D8-B1B3-000393658196@mac.com> References: <96F6B7B8-12CD-11D8-B1B3-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: At 07:58 -0800 09/11/2003, Fabien Roy wrote: >Specially with their CEO acting like a monkey on stage. That wasn't an act. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From thomasv at mac.com Sun Nov 9 09:19:03 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: VPN (in general and in relation to Panther) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 8, 2003, at 5:15 PM, Jonathan Heron wrote: > Does anybody know of a good primer on-line on what VPN is about? Just > the > basics of how it works, the different protocols (PPTP vs L2TP), and > what it > means for the user connecting in. In the context of Apple. Apple uses the popular protocol built into Win2K server PPTP with CHAP (encrypted password), and L2TP IPSEC (much more complicated but considered superior VPN standard.) > > To give some context to my query... my company currently has one user > who > connects in over the net to control a Mac running Timbuktu. Our router > (ZyWall 10) is nicely set up to only allow connections from a specific > IP, > and routes all connections to the relevant ports through to the > Timbuktu > machine. > > However, we want to have up to three more people doing the same thing > with > three additional Timbuktu (or Apple Remote Desktop) machines. Timbuktu > does > not allow the port settings to be changed (which would make the set up > very > straight forward), and from the little digging around I've done it > looks > like my router will not allow me to set up a rule such as: > > For packets from to port XXX, route to ADDRESS > A> > > For packets from ADDRESS > B> > > > (please excuse the lay-speak in my rule description above) > > So that leaves another possible easy route closed to me. > > So then the thought occurred to me to check out what VPNs are all > about. To > my knowledge, once a VPN connection is in place, the remote machine is > assigned a local IP and to all intents and purposes is 'on' the LAN. > Is this > the case? Depends on the how the VPN is implemented. > Thus, if I have a remote office on a broadband connection with a > VPN connection to the main office, will the remote machine be able to > use > network services exactly as if it were on the LAN? Yes, you are essentially creating a private tunnel over the internet that is equivalent to having a dedicated private line to them. > > If that's the case, I'd be able to tell remote user 'A' to connect to > one IP > address on the LAN (e.g. 192.168.1.60), and tell remote user 'B' to > connect to > another IP on the LAN (e.g. 192.168.1.61). Am I correct? (again, > apologies if > my explanation is less than crystal clear. > Yes > > Now, I have to routes open to me for VPN'ing: > 1/ use Panther clients and Panther server, and connect that way > 2/ use VPN support in the ZyWalls to connect > The first option would be the simplest. I don't know anything about the ZyWalls to know if Panther ipsec implementation is compatible with theirs. > > What would be the benefits/downsides of each route? > You are probably going to want to use IPSec. So it is just a matter if ZyWall's implimentation is compatible with Panthers. Otherwise you can check any of a number of third party clients that boast compatibility with ZyWalls. VPNTracker is the first that comes to mind. Cheers, Thomas Vincent New Mac security site coming soon at MacSec.info! From dennyrex at earthlink.net Sun Nov 9 09:53:01 2003 From: dennyrex at earthlink.net (Rick Sanford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <443495FC-1268-11D8-A778-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <66BDAC3F-12DD-11D8-8FE3-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> On Saturday, November 8, 2003, at 10:53 PM, Lukreme wrote: > The company itself has never once chosen good practices over smoke and > mirrors. It doesn't matter how smart the people are when the > corporate mentality is sub-apr and totally unconcerned with doing > anything right. you misspelled sub-ape -rick -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 391 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031109/70ec5024/attachment.bin From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 9 10:20:09 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: An early eval of Apple's Mac OS X 10.3 In-Reply-To: <0D38752F-0D8E-11D8-8BC9-000A2791CF7C@23x.net> References: <0D38752F-0D8E-11D8-8BC9-000A2791CF7C@23x.net> Message-ID: <2E0A2C18-12E1-11D8-A6F9-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 2, 2003, at 6:41 PM, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > On Nov 2, 2003, at 11:55 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: >> I do not see this problem with Solaris NFS. Linux NFS is to be >> blunt, utter crap. > > FreeBSD, Solaris, OSX... all good NFS implementations. > Apple actually has helped with FreeBSD's implementation, indirectly. There was a tool (the name escapes me) that helped find a number of NFS related bugs in Freebsd that was given by Apple... Overall I have never had major problems with NFS on OS X. Mind you I have not hit it super hard, but I did use it daily for about a year. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031109/f8bf3dfa/smime.bin From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 9 10:24:05 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: An early eval of Apple's Mac OS X 10.3 In-Reply-To: <6AC45C4D-0D93-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <5EC8C08C-0D8A-11D8-BCE5-000393A335A2@mac.com> <6AC45C4D-0D93-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 2, 2003, at 7:19 PM, Matt wrote: > > On 2 Nov 2003, at 23:14, Lawrence Sica wrote: > >> >> On Oct 31, 2003, at 1:35 PM, Matt wrote: >> >>> >>> >> >> Ok quick impressions of the review. There are some mistakes and >> misconceptions here. I am guessing the author did not do much >> research. > > There seem to be two kinds of Linux user out there. > > 1. Paranoid and Defensive > 2. Already switched (in spirit, even if they haven't bought the > hardware). > Yes, there are those though who just use what they think works best, without the politics or religion. Unfortunately the signal to noise ratio makes them harder to find. > A lot of people could say that there is only one kind of Mac user - > Paranoid and Defensive > Heh, yes ;). But reading a lot of the articles and such, I guess it becomes a knee jerk. A lot of ppl either don't get Apple or do get it and don't like what it represents. Personally I say use what is best for you, and leave me be :). Oh and don't lie about MyOS or YourOS just because you want yours to be better. > It's odd, mainly because I would have thought that a lot of people who > code for Linux would see Mac OS X as a new and fertile audience > especially now that Mac OS X comes with X11 built-in - then again, > we're talking about people who think that software should be free, > except when they want it to be[1]. > If you threaten someone's sacred cow they can react badly. That is what I see happening when you have hardcore linux or unix people hating on OS X and Apple in general. I see it that Apple is providing something I wanted for years, a unix os that has a useable gui, good app support and most of all does not make me spend hours and hours to get things working. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031109/552da39c/smime.bin From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 9 10:30:04 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: A response to Proteron, was Re: Proteron memo about app switching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 28, 2003, at 1:08 PM, Matt wrote: > > http://fury.com/article/1872.php > > Kevin Fox responds to Proteron... > Interesting, I did not know about Switcher. In regards to sherlock/watson. I wish i could combine the two apps into one, each has things I like and dislike with layout and capabilities.. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031109/d7597203/smime.bin From das at doit.wisc.edu Sun Nov 9 10:32:03 2003 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: Panther does not work, anyone else have troubles with the install CDs? In-Reply-To: <724BEF70-1283-11D8-9B3B-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> References: <9FCB1E64-125B-11D8-9111-000393D650E2@mia.net> <724BEF70-1283-11D8-9B3B-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 9, 2003, at 1:07 AM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > On Nov 8, 2003, at 10:51 PM, steve harley wrote: > >> at 20031108, 20:22 -0600, they whom i call Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >>> I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but I have a perplexing >>> problem with Panther. So far every machine I have tried to install >>> Panther on has the same problem. >>> >>> 1. Install Panther upgrade option from CD1 >>> 2. Install completes, reboots, asks for CD2 >>> 3. Insert CD2, it reads it, then kicks it out >> >> i've seen several reports of a corrupt CD 2.. probably a >> manufacturing defect.. some people have gotten direct >> replacement discs at an Apple Store or other retailer, for >> others it was harder > > I was at the Apple store in Univ. Village (Seattle) the other day ... > guy at the genius bar said there was a batch of bad Panther CD's out > there which caused installation problems. I'd be curious to have anyone who has a "bad" CD 2 check to see what it actually is; what we have been told is that some of the "bad" sets actually have Mac OS X Server 10.3 disc 2 in place of the correct client disc 2. - Dave From ehrich at mninter.net Sun Nov 9 10:46:01 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: odd files Message-ID: What are /Library/Preferences/cf#c5Nss and /Library/Preferences/cf#yd7UZ ? They stick out in a list of .plist pref files with readable names. Both have permissions 0600. Mod date at system installation time. Maybe it's paranoid, but in PCs strange files often mean virus or worm. -- Bill Ehrich From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 9 12:21:07 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: An early eval of Apple's Mac OS X 10.3 In-Reply-To: References: <5EC8C08C-0D8A-11D8-BCE5-000393A335A2@mac.com> <6AC45C4D-0D93-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <32EE2610-12F2-11D8-AA03-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 9 Nov 2003, at 18:23, Lawrence Sica wrote: > Yes, there are those though who just use what they think works best, > without the politics or religion. Unfortunately the signal to noise > ratio makes them harder to find. Well, I'm working on corrupting our local LUG. To be honest, iBook G4 made a BIG difference. > Heh, yes ;). But reading a lot of the articles and such, I guess it > becomes a knee jerk. A lot of ppl either don't get Apple or do get it > and don't like what it represents. Personally I say use what is best > for you, and leave me be :). Oh and don't lie about MyOS or YourOS > just because you want yours to be better. Well, one of the reasons I get het up about Os advocacy is because: a) People who don't use Windows don't really care what you use. They'd like you to share the joy they've found but are easy going about it. b) People who "live" Windows think that you HAVE to use Windows. Maybe it's the great leveller? These people tend to gravitate towards jobs in Corporate or Education IT. > If you threaten someone's sacred cow they can react badly. That is > what I see happening when you have hardcore linux or unix people > hating on OS X and Apple in general. I see it that Apple is providing > something I wanted for years, a unix os that has a useable gui, good > app support and most of all does not make me spend hours and hours to > get things working. Well it's a Mac with a UNIX CLI. Back in the System 7 days I used to have NCSA Telnet, and later BetterTelnet, constantly open... -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 9 12:43:01 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: The Secret Graphing Calculator In-Reply-To: <50A4573A-1298-11D8-8C7E-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> References: <564B015A-11AF-11D8-9E1E-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> <50A4573A-1298-11D8-8C7E-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> Message-ID: <3A9ED1EB-12F5-11D8-94EF-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 09 Nov 2003, at 02:37, J Michel Metz wrote: >> Enjoy! There are also a few other calculator views that are in the >> Resources folder, but I haven't tried them yet... > > That's pretty cool. Are there other apps with this "plug-in" > functionality? Eudora 6 -- Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards for they are subtle and quick to anger. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031109/afca5b81/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 9 12:45:02 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> <83201B06-1244-11D8-A778-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <82651A24-12F5-11D8-94EF-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 08 Nov 2003, at 23:35, Roger Howard wrote: > I Said >> Robustness is a long way from "bullet-proof" > > I never meant to imply it was perfect or uncrackable. For the record, > it isn't, it can be cracked given the time and bright enough folks who > care enough to bother. Sorry, that's what I take "bullet-proof" to mean. Uncrackable. Thus the whole thread's beginning. > -- "There's a light that shines on everything & everyone. And it shines so bright - brighter even than the sun". hat's what Minnie thinks as she walks to meet her brother, who is nearly two years older, on a Saturday night. He's DJ-ing at some do on the edge of town on the night that Minnie Timperley died. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031109/43785e85/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 9 12:50:07 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: odd files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2EE9CB92-12F6-11D8-94EF-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 09 Nov 2003, at 11:13, William Ehrich wrote: > What are /Library/Preferences/cf#c5Nss and > /Library/Preferences/cf#yd7UZ ? Dunno, don't have them in my /Library/Preferences > They stick out in a list of .plist pref files with readable names. > Both have permissions 0600. > Mod date at system installation time. > > Maybe it's paranoid, but in PCs strange files often mean virus or worm. This is not a PC. What's in the files? -- Growing up leads to growing old, and then to dying/And dying to me don't sound like all that much fun. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031109/9bec98be/smime.bin From cwilbur at mac.com Sun Nov 9 13:57:01 2003 From: cwilbur at mac.com (Charlton Wilbur) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: An early eval of Apple's Mac OS X 10.3 In-Reply-To: <32EE2610-12F2-11D8-AA03-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <5EC8C08C-0D8A-11D8-BCE5-000393A335A2@mac.com> <6AC45C4D-0D93-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <32EE2610-12F2-11D8-AA03-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <9F5684AA-12FF-11D8-8221-000A9573CF20@mac.com> On Nov 9, 2003, at 3:20 PM, Matt wrote: (quoting someone else) >> Heh, yes ;). But reading a lot of the articles and such, I guess it >> becomes a knee jerk. A lot of ppl either don't get Apple or do get >> it and don't like what it represents. Personally I say use what is >> best for you, and leave me be :). Oh and don't lie about MyOS or >> YourOS just because you want yours to be better. > > Well, one of the reasons I get het up about Os advocacy is because: > > a) People who don't use Windows don't really care what you use. They'd > like you to share the joy they've found but are easy going about it. > > b) People who "live" Windows think that you HAVE to use Windows. Maybe > it's the great leveller? These people tend to gravitate towards jobs > in Corporate or Education IT. c) People who invest a great deal of their self-worth in identifying with a particular OS get horribly upset when there's any implication that their OS might not be ideal in all circumstances. This usually goes along with the moral rightness of using the advocated system (because open source is Morally Correct, for instance) or the moral wrongness of using Microsoft software (because it's an evil corporate monopoly, don'tcha know). (I've run into this from frothing-at-the-mouth Linux advocates more than from Mac advocates. Before I switched to Mac, I needed to run Windows for Sibelius, a music notation package; I was told on more than one occasion that the open source music notation packages available for Linux were the equal of Sibelius. Well, they weren't, in terms of quality of output, stability, or usability, but their mere existence apparently ought to have been sufficient to get me to ditch Windows. Instead, I switched to Mac.) d) People who have no idea that there are any alternatives, because all the computers at Walmart and Best Buy run Windows, because all AOL ever mentions are Windows computers (and usually low-quality ones at that), and because "we use Windows at work." I think advocacy is good only insofar as it gets people to realize that there are alternatives, and I think quiet advocacy is better than in-your-face advocacy, especially if there's any chance that you might be off on your facts. For instance, my 12" Powerbook has sufficiently impressed several of my friends (most of whom were using Macs in the System 6 and earlier days, when we were in college instead of the corporate world) into at least *considering* one. Another friend of mine thought he could build a video editing/DVD burning workstation on Linux for under $1000; he's pushing $2500 now and is wishing he had considered a 12" Powerbook -- especially with the recent revision. His next computer may well be a Mac because of that. And my partner has decided that we're going to try to buy him a laptop sooner than we otherwise would have, and it will be an iBook when we do. (the original poster again:) >> If you threaten someone's sacred cow they can react badly. That is >> what I see happening when you have hardcore linux or unix people >> hating on OS X and Apple in general. I see it that Apple is >> providing something I wanted for years, a unix os that has a useable >> gui, good app support and most of all does not make me spend hours >> and hours to get things working. It's all about usabiliity. That's what I realized, and sadly, you can't really realize this until you've been using the Mac for a while and then try to go back. A five-minute tryout of the Mac at an Apple store won't do it. Maybe the thing for Apple to do would be to provide one week test-drives: have half a dozen Powerbooks and iBooks available for loan at a store, that people considering purchasing a Mac can borrow and use to get a feel for the OS. Charlton -- Charlton Wilbur cwilbur@chromatico.net cwilbur@mac.com From sstevenson at mac.com Sun Nov 9 14:16:02 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: [Moderator] Composing a Post Message-ID: <2B546958-1302-11D8-8962-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> When posting a message on a *new* topic to the list, please consider composing a new message rather than responding to a previous post. I realize it's a convenient way to address the message, but this messes with the threading mechanism for list members who are using Panther Mail. I haven't checked, but I suspect it can do strange things to archives as well. Thanks, - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Sun Nov 9 14:24:01 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: An early eval of Apple's Mac OS X 10.3 In-Reply-To: <9F5684AA-12FF-11D8-8221-000A9573CF20@mac.com> References: <5EC8C08C-0D8A-11D8-BCE5-000393A335A2@mac.com> <6AC45C4D-0D93-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <32EE2610-12F2-11D8-AA03-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <9F5684AA-12FF-11D8-8221-000A9573CF20@mac.com> Message-ID: <4FC9D38A-1303-11D8-B5E3-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> On Nov 9, 2003, at 21:56, Charlton Wilbur wrote: > It's all about usabiliity. That's what I realized, and sadly, you > can't really realize this until you've been using the Mac for a while > and then try to go back. Yes, that's it exactly. As the years go by, will the person be subjected to more and more irritation and annoyance, or will they feel more in harmony and fulfilled? Maybe there should be a saying for computers, akin to "don't judge a book by it's cover". Stefano From jonathan at betweenboxes.com Sun Nov 9 15:03:03 2003 From: jonathan at betweenboxes.com (Jonathan Heron) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: Options for company-wide Address Book? Message-ID: What would be the best way to get a single set of contacts available company-wide to all users running OS X Panther? I'm shocked that Apple still don't have Rendezvous sharing and an easy-to-use central server for Address Book. From jared at 23x.net Sun Nov 9 15:06:25 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: [Moderator] Composing a Post In-Reply-To: <9F5684AA-12FF-11D8-8221-000A9573CF20@mac.com> References: <5EC8C08C-0D8A-11D8-BCE5-000393A335A2@mac.com> <6AC45C4D-0D93-11D8-A7B0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <32EE2610-12F2-11D8-AA03-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <9F5684AA-12FF-11D8-8221-000A9573CF20@mac.com> Message-ID: <342B03C2-1309-11D8-9C28-000A958F180A@23x.net> On 9 Nov 2003, at 23:15, Scott Stevenson wrote: > When posting a message on a *new* topic to the list, please consider > composing a new message rather than responding to a previous post. I > realize it's a convenient way to address the message, but this messes > with the threading mechanism for list members who are using Panther > Mail. I haven't checked, but I suspect it can do strange things to > archives as well. Like what? -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "Watashi-wa shin no SUPORUKU desu" From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 9 15:13:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: Options for company-wide Address Book? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A8E3A9A-130A-11D8-96FA-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 9 Nov 2003, at 23:02, Jonathan Heron wrote: > What would be the best way to get a single set of contacts available > company-wide to all users running OS X Panther? I'm shocked that Apple > still > don't have Rendezvous sharing This is available through a third party hack. > and an easy-to-use central server for Address Book. They do, it's called LDAP. > From what I know of LDAP, I'm sure it would do the trick however I > can't find any dead-simple LDAP servers or GUI clients for > adding/removing contacts. Depends what your needs are. I'm guessing you want automatic lookup in Address Book and also in Mail and associated applications. For this, you need LDAP > Really, we should be able to do this straight through Address Book, > but this is not possible AFAIK. No, for a server you want Mac OS X Server. Have a look at 10.3 Server. > Is it possible to have LDAP access to a FileMaker Pro database? Probably. FMPro can do just about anything if the plug-in has been written. -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 9 16:07:24 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: Composing a Post In-Reply-To: <2B546958-1302-11D8-8962-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <2B546958-1302-11D8-8962-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: On 09 Nov 2003, at 15:15, Scott Stevenson wrote: > When posting a message on a *new* topic to the list, please consider > composing a new message rather than responding to a previous post. I > realize it's a convenient way to address the message, but this messes > with the threading mechanism for list members who are using Panther > Mail. I haven't checked, but I suspect it can do strange things to > archives as well. It's really easy in panther too, just rclick on the list email address in the header and choose "New Message." -- You too will get old. And when you do you'll fantasize that when you were young prices where reasonable, politicians were noble, and children respected their elders. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031109/4c15f21c/smime.bin From matthew at wocwa.com Sun Nov 9 19:25:08 2003 From: matthew at wocwa.com (Matthew Healey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: [Moderator] Composing a Post In-Reply-To: <342B03C2-1309-11D8-9C28-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: <727B51F6-132D-11D8-9442-000A957C032C@wocwa.com> On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 07:05 AM, Jared Earle wrote: > On 9 Nov 2003, at 23:15, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> When posting a message on a *new* topic to the list, please consider >> composing a new message rather than responding to a previous post. I >> realize it's a convenient way to address the message, but this messes >> with the threading mechanism for list members who are using Panther >> Mail. I haven't checked, but I suspect it can do strange things to >> archives as well. > > Like what? Like putting messages that are completely unrelated in the same thread. - Matt From bronski at bronski.net Sun Nov 9 22:26:09 2003 From: bronski at bronski.net (Christoph Rummel) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: VPN (in general and in relation to Panther) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9EF2A78E-1346-11D8-A6CC-000393A99D5C@bronski.net> Hi! On 09.11.2003, at 18:18, Thomas Vincent wrote: > You are probably going to want to use IPSec. So it is just a matter if > ZyWall's implimentation is compatible with Panthers. Otherwise you > can check any of a number of third party clients that boast > compatibility > with ZyWalls. VPNTracker is the first that comes to mind. VPNTracker works just like a charm, but is payware. Interestingly it comes with its own version of racoon which seems to be patched as it has mor commandlineparameters than the vanilla racoon. A free and very good alternative is VaporSec. The main differencethat we noticed here is negotiation in aggressive mode which worked right away with VPNTracker and not with VaporSec or an manually edited /etc/racoon/racoon.cfg and raccon and setkey. But that is just a matter of finding the right Cl parameters. Chris From nathan at valuecommerce.ne.jp Mon Nov 10 00:06:02 2003 From: nathan at valuecommerce.ne.jp (Nathan Ollerenshaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: VPN (in general and in relation to Panther) In-Reply-To: <9EF2A78E-1346-11D8-A6CC-000393A99D5C@bronski.net> References: <9EF2A78E-1346-11D8-A6CC-000393A99D5C@bronski.net> Message-ID: <8F1ACFFA-1354-11D8-A9FB-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> On a related note, I experimented with PPTP (using poptop under linux) and IPSEC, both with a MacOS X machine as the client OS. I found that in both instances, I could not get them to work behind a NAT firewall. That is, if the PPTP server was out on the net, and I tried to connect to it from home from behind my ADSL NAT router, I was SOL. The main reason why PPTP won't work is because it uses IP protocol 47 (GRE) which most home routers don't know how to handle and just drop. IPSEC seems to suffer the same problem, though I was unable to fully diagnose the reason for it not to work - I saw the traffic from my home machine on the firewall, but the return traffic from the firewall never got to the home box. Can anyone recommend a good clean implementation of VPN that would allow both Mac OS X machines and Windows 2k/XP machines to connect? I currently have a good office to office VPN with OpenVPN (http://www.openvpn.org/), however it's not ideal for client access, due to it not being supported as a standard VPN access method by either OS. However, it will traverse a statefull firewall. Nathan. -- Nathan Ollerenshaw - Unix Systems Engineer ValueCommerce - http://www.valuecommerce.ne.jp/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2381 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031110/e7839127/smime.bin From jared at 23x.net Mon Nov 10 02:39:03 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: [Moderator] Composing a Post In-Reply-To: <8F1ACFFA-1354-11D8-A9FB-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <9EF2A78E-1346-11D8-A6CC-000393A99D5C@bronski.net> <8F1ACFFA-1354-11D8-A9FB-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: On 10 Nov 2003, at 04:24, Matthew Healey wrote: >>> I suspect it can do strange things to archives as well. >> >> Like what? > > Like putting messages that are completely unrelated in the same thread. Ok, I'll try to be careful. -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "We've got a rogue SPORK on our hands. I can't imagine anything more dangerous." From lists at weir.cc Mon Nov 10 05:48:12 2003 From: lists at weir.cc (Tom Weir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:19 2005 Subject: VPN (in general and in relation to Panther) In-Reply-To: <8F1ACFFA-1354-11D8-A9FB-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <9EF2A78E-1346-11D8-A6CC-000393A99D5C@bronski.net> <8F1ACFFA-1354-11D8-A9FB-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <704AA454-1384-11D8-ABF6-000A95CC7C02@weir.cc> On 10-Nov-03, at 12:04 AM, Nathan Ollerenshaw wrote: > On a related note, I experimented with PPTP (using poptop under linux) > and IPSEC, both with a MacOS X machine as the client OS. > > I found that in both instances, I could not get them to work behind a > NAT firewall. That is, if the PPTP server was out on the net, and I > tried to connect to it from home from behind my ADSL NAT router, I was > SOL. IPSEC won't work with NAT, or any other service that somehow mangles the packets. In a nutshell, IPSEC enforces packet-level security by detecting whether or not a packet has been tampered with since the sender sent it. If it has been tampered with, the packet is dropped. Since NAT works by dynamically rewriting IP addresses, no IPSEC packets will get through. Tom From nathan at valuecommerce.ne.jp Mon Nov 10 06:16:01 2003 From: nathan at valuecommerce.ne.jp (Nathan Ollerenshaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: VPN (in general and in relation to Panther) In-Reply-To: <704AA454-1384-11D8-ABF6-000A95CC7C02@weir.cc> References: <9EF2A78E-1346-11D8-A6CC-000393A99D5C@bronski.net> <8F1ACFFA-1354-11D8-A9FB-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> <704AA454-1384-11D8-ABF6-000A95CC7C02@weir.cc> Message-ID: <4D1C4AA4-1388-11D8-AAB2-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> On Nov 10, 2003, at 10:47 PM, Tom Weir wrote: > IPSEC won't work with NAT, or any other service that somehow mangles > the packets. Gotya. I read that somewhere and forgot it too heh :) Its kind of useless then, here in Japan, where most people have ADSL routers. I need another solution. GRE packets just seem to get eaten by most ADSL routers here too (mine, at least, from a large monopolistic telco ...) so PPTP really does look out of the question. PPP over SSH works though ;) Nathan. -- Nathan Ollerenshaw - Unix Systems Engineer ValueCommerce - http://www.valuecommerce.ne.jp/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2381 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031110/d7299238/smime.bin From michael-winter at uiowa.edu Mon Nov 10 07:19:04 2003 From: michael-winter at uiowa.edu (Michael Winter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: <17A3B89C-1391-11D8-BA87-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> On Nov 8, 2003, at 3:10 PM, Roger Howard wrote: > Microsoft has, currently, the best platform for DRM, the best > streaming codecs, and the best HD codecs on the open market. But in a previous post you say: > As for HD content, it also barely plays on the highest-end single proc > PCs you can build IMO that's a major drawback, isn't it? It may be the "best" quality video in the smallest file size, but if it takes more processing power to play back flawlessly than most computers can handle, what's the point? I guess it depends on the purpose. Maybe at this quality level you're not talking about files that are meant for general viewing? > I try to bring a balanced, informed perspective here about digital > media issues; Can't speak for others, but I do appreciate your perspective. Don't always agree with it, sometimes I just don't want to agree with it, but I do appreciate hearing it. -Mike From ehrich at mninter.net Mon Nov 10 07:30:05 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: odd files In-Reply-To: <2EE9CB92-12F6-11D8-94EF-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <2EE9CB92-12F6-11D8-94EF-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: >>What are /Library/Preferences/cf#c5Nss and /Library/Preferences/cf#yd7UZ ? > >What's in the files? The first is a .plist with AppleLanguages, ColorSyncDevices, and com.apple.audio.CoreAudio.DeviceSettings . The second is empty. -- Bill Ehrich From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Mon Nov 10 07:34:09 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: Multihoming Message-ID: <304CCB46-1393-11D8-8A30-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> I've read that multihoming will switch to the next interface if the first one is lost, and that much I get. But what happens if the first interface is still available, but the IP address you're trying to reach is only accessible though the second interface? I'm really asking, can you be on two separate networks at the same time? Stefano From joar at joar.com Mon Nov 10 07:40:26 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: Multihoming In-Reply-To: <304CCB46-1393-11D8-8A30-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> References: <304CCB46-1393-11D8-8A30-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <1AC96DE4-1394-11D8-9A22-000393ADAEE6@joar.com> On 2003-11-10, at 16.33, Stefano Mori wrote: > I've read that multihoming will switch to the next interface if the > first one is lost, and that much I get. Multihoming is not about having the ability to recover from loosing connection on one interface. It is about the ability to configure, and communicate, on multiple interfaces at the same time. > But what happens if the first interface is still available, but the IP > address you're trying to reach is only accessible though the second > interface? You will find the resource you're looking for. > I'm really asking, can you be on two separate networks at the same > time? Yes. j o a r From ian at SKYLIST.net Mon Nov 10 07:52:53 2003 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: Multihoming In-Reply-To: <1AC96DE4-1394-11D8-9A22-000393ADAEE6@joar.com> References: <304CCB46-1393-11D8-8A30-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> <1AC96DE4-1394-11D8-9A22-000393ADAEE6@joar.com> Message-ID: On Nov 10, 2003, at 9:39 AM, j o a r wrote: > On 2003-11-10, at 16.33, Stefano Mori wrote: >> I'm really asking, can you be on two separate networks at the same >> time? > > Yes. What's even cooler than that, I don't know if anybody else has tried it, is to set up your Airport and your ethernet to the same IP and prioritize the ethernet above the airport in network config. It automatically transitions back and forth from using the wired interface to the airport and vice versa when you plug in or unplug. SSH connections, mounted drives, and everything else I've tried make the switch transparently. It's really, really nice to have a fast connection when sitting at your desk but not have to lose connections when you want to move. Ian From ehrich at mninter.net Mon Nov 10 08:36:41 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: shells Message-ID: Does NeXT allow Unix command line access? If so, does it have a more modern shell than the lovingly preserved antiques available in terminal.app? -- Bill Ehrich From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 08:50:07 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: VPN (in general and in relation to Panther) In-Reply-To: <704AA454-1384-11D8-ABF6-000A95CC7C02@weir.cc> References: <9EF2A78E-1346-11D8-A6CC-000393A99D5C@bronski.net> <8F1ACFFA-1354-11D8-A9FB-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> <704AA454-1384-11D8-ABF6-000A95CC7C02@weir.cc> Message-ID: On 10 Nov 2003, at 13:47, Tom Weir wrote: > On 10-Nov-03, at 12:04 AM, Nathan Ollerenshaw wrote: > >> On a related note, I experimented with PPTP (using poptop under >> linux) and IPSEC, both with a MacOS X machine as the client OS. >> >> I found that in both instances, I could not get them to work behind a >> NAT firewall. That is, if the PPTP server was out on the net, and I >> tried to connect to it from home from behind my ADSL NAT router, I >> was SOL. > > IPSEC won't work with NAT, or any other service that somehow mangles > the packets. Well, it CAN work but then you end up stretching the IPSEC implementation. For example, Cisco and Nortel support it in their gear. M -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 08:51:10 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: Multihoming In-Reply-To: <304CCB46-1393-11D8-8A30-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> References: <304CCB46-1393-11D8-8A30-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <09A84FC6-139E-11D8-96FA-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 10 Nov 2003, at 15:33, Stefano Mori wrote: > I've read that multihoming will switch to the next interface if the > first one is lost, and that much I get. > But what happens if the first interface is still available, but the IP > address you're trying to reach is only accessible though the second > interface? Depends on your routing and whether your network is set up to do something clever or not. > I'm really asking, can you be on two separate networks at the same > time? Yes, but you can only have one default route. That has serious implications for getting to some networks and not others. You can add a static route to your routing table just for that IP that you want to reach but it's not something for my Mum to do. From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Nov 10 09:20:08 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <17A3B89C-1391-11D8-BA87-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> Message-ID: On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 07:18 AM, Michael Winter wrote: > > On Nov 8, 2003, at 3:10 PM, Roger Howard wrote: > >> Microsoft has, currently, the best platform for DRM, the best >> streaming codecs, and the best HD codecs on the open market. > > But in a previous post you say: > >> As for HD content, it also barely plays on the highest-end single >> proc PCs you can build Right... and I should qualify that better too - 1020 line HD is pretty much barely within reach right now. 720p is quite doable. > IMO that's a major drawback, isn't it? It may be the "best" quality > video in the smallest file size, but if it takes more processing power > to play back flawlessly than most computers can handle, what's the > point? Well I don't know of many consumer-ready HD codecs... actually, none, unless you count good old MPEG-2, which also has high CPU requirments for a good stream. Of course, MPEG-2 is very limited and inefficient compared to pretty much anything that has come out in the past 5 years. The point is that computing power increases much faster than bandwidth, so creating smaller files at the cost of higher CPU load is considered by most codec designers to be the reasonable approach right now. No one wants 20Mbit/s requirements, but 3Ghz (or less with hardware assist from video cards, as I believe Microsoft is moving towards) isn't so unimaginable. That, and decreasing size (even at the cost of CPU load) means making existing storage media last longer - fitting HD-resolution Windows Media (or anything else) on a standard DVD is very desirable. > I guess it depends on the purpose. Maybe at this quality level you're > not talking about files that are meant for general viewing? Well, HD right now is certainly not a mainstream offering... it's something being anticipated as one of the Next Big Things, and so expectations are that - as with other media technologies - consumer capability will catch up at the point when the technology becomes Ready for Primetime. > >> I try to bring a balanced, informed perspective here about digital >> media issues; > > Can't speak for others, but I do appreciate your perspective. Don't > always agree with it, sometimes I just don't want to agree with it, > but I do appreciate hearing it. I'm not a WM promoter, just honest about it's benefits right now purely in DRM and raw codec performance. I happen to be a die-hard Quicktime user and evangelist, and vastly prefer working with it for content creation, even if it doesn't have the single most efficient codec on the market (I don't think that's necessarily a problem -look at MPEG-2, not exactly state of the art but still probably more popular in terms of units of content sold than anything out there)... being a realist about WM (it's not all bad, some parts are excellent) and a Quicktime fan aren't mutually exclusive. Cheers, Roger From lomion at mac.com Mon Nov 10 09:47:26 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 10, 2003, at 11:32 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > Does NeXT allow Unix command line access? If so, does it have a more > modern shell than the lovingly preserved antiques available in > terminal.app? > > More modern shell? OS X comes with sh, csh, tcsh, bash and zsh. 3 of those are still actively maintained. How much more modern did you want? Also NeXT is no longer developed so anything there would be outdated in it's base install. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031110/5e76c7d3/smime.bin From lomion at mac.com Mon Nov 10 09:50:13 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: VPN (in general and in relation to Panther) In-Reply-To: <704AA454-1384-11D8-ABF6-000A95CC7C02@weir.cc> References: <9EF2A78E-1346-11D8-A6CC-000393A99D5C@bronski.net> <8F1ACFFA-1354-11D8-A9FB-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> <704AA454-1384-11D8-ABF6-000A95CC7C02@weir.cc> Message-ID: <14BD53D6-13A6-11D8-ACF8-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 8:47 AM, Tom Weir wrote: > On 10-Nov-03, at 12:04 AM, Nathan Ollerenshaw wrote: > >> On a related note, I experimented with PPTP (using poptop under >> linux) and IPSEC, both with a MacOS X machine as the client OS. >> >> I found that in both instances, I could not get them to work behind a >> NAT firewall. That is, if the PPTP server was out on the net, and I >> tried to connect to it from home from behind my ADSL NAT router, I >> was SOL. > > IPSEC won't work with NAT, or any other service that somehow mangles > the packets. > You will need to use a LAN - LAN VPN not a client-based one. Some routers (The SMC Barricarde forexample) can do this on some levels. You can also get IPSEC to work behind a NAT, it comes down to the NAT device. I have done it with a FreeBSD box running natd and ipfw. You need to map some stuff and open the firewall up for esp. --Larry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2357 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031110/b5f5cb20/smime.bin From ehrich at mninter.net Mon Nov 10 10:22:07 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: <6E1D7060-139F-11D8-BCB7-003065D8C728@softhome.net> References: <6E1D7060-139F-11D8-BCB7-003065D8C728@softhome.net> Message-ID: >Umm... do you care to inform the rest of us as to what you would >term a more modern shell? I now realize that I asked the wrong question. Terminal.app is the problem. It emulates the old glass TTYs like the VT-100 and the earlier model 33 and 28 TTYs, which were used for low speed serial access to time-shared mainframes. I learned computing on work stations: Apollo, Sun, LMI, Symbolics, and MPW. They all had direct fast access to the cpu and memory, so their command line interface was in a fully editable window with full mouse navigation. I guess I'm just spoiled. So what I'm asking for is a modern command line interface, like a Sun or MPW work station. I realize that MPW is politically impossible at Apple, but maybe someone has made something like it which could be ported from Unix or Linux . -- Bill Ehrich From zbir at urbanape.com Mon Nov 10 10:29:10 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: References: <6E1D7060-139F-11D8-BCB7-003065D8C728@softhome.net> Message-ID: On Nov 10, 2003, at 1:20 PM, William Ehrich wrote: >> Umm... do you care to inform the rest of us as to what you would term >> a more modern shell? > > I now realize that I asked the wrong question. > > Terminal.app is the problem. It emulates the old glass TTYs like the > VT-100 and the earlier model 33 and 28 TTYs, which were used for low > speed serial access to time-shared mainframes. > > I learned computing on work stations: Apollo, Sun, LMI, Symbolics, and > MPW. They all had direct fast access to the cpu and memory, so their > command line interface was in a fully editable window with full mouse > navigation. > > I guess I'm just spoiled. > > So what I'm asking for is a modern command line interface, like a Sun > or MPW work station. I realize that MPW is politically impossible at > Apple, but maybe someone has made something like it which could be > ported from Unix or Linux . Happy to help Zac -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031110/74189be3/smime.bin From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Mon Nov 10 11:23:20 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 11/10/03 10:28 AM, "Zachery Bir" wrote: > On Nov 10, 2003, at 1:20 PM, William Ehrich wrote: > >>> Umm... do you care to inform the rest of us as to what you would term >>> a more modern shell? >> >> I now realize that I asked the wrong question. >> >> Terminal.app is the problem. It emulates the old glass TTYs like the >> VT-100 and the earlier model 33 and 28 TTYs, which were used for low >> speed serial access to time-shared mainframes. >> >> I learned computing on work stations: Apollo, Sun, LMI, Symbolics, and >> MPW. They all had direct fast access to the cpu and memory, so their >> command line interface was in a fully editable window with full mouse >> navigation. >> >> I guess I'm just spoiled. >> >> So what I'm asking for is a modern command line interface, like a Sun >> or MPW work station. I realize that MPW is politically impossible at >> Apple, but maybe someone has made something like it which could be >> ported from Unix or Linux . > > > > Happy to help Or, try BBEdit. You can do MPW like things in it now. Dan From ehrich at mninter.net Mon Nov 10 12:37:31 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Thanks, but I'm not looking for a new hobby >Or, try BBEdit. You can do MPW like things in it now. or a $180 overkill. I mostly want to do the occasional chmod or whatever without having to fight the readline line editor. And compile a little C program from a makefile without building an entire **PROJECT** . One nice thing is that xcode does man pages. Don't have to use Terminal.app for that. -- Bill Ehrich From zbir at urbanape.com Mon Nov 10 12:52:05 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 10, 2003, at 3:35 PM, William Ehrich wrote: >> > > Thanks, but I'm not looking for a new hobby So, this'll be the end of the smarmy stand-up schtick, I presume? Thank heavens. >> Or, try BBEdit. You can do MPW like things in it now. > > or a $180 overkill. > > I mostly want to do the occasional chmod or whatever without having to > fight the readline line editor. I guess I don't understand this "fight". Can you provide a concrete example of how MPW would do something like a chmod? Or how its command line differs from, say, bash? > And compile a little C program from a makefile without building an > entire **PROJECT** . make ? Zac -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031110/c35f1b8c/smime.bin From sstevenson at mac.com Mon Nov 10 13:13:09 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:20 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9DFFC4EC-13C2-11D8-BCFF-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 12:35 PM, William Ehrich wrote: >> Or, try BBEdit. You can do MPW like things in it now. > > or a $180 overkill. > > I mostly want to do the occasional chmod or whatever without having to > fight the readline line editor. And compile a little C program from a > makefile without building an entire **PROJECT** . > > One nice thing is that xcode does man pages. Don't have to use > Terminal.app for that. Xcode also has worksheets -- in other words, the MPW functionality I believe you're looking for. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 13:14:30 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: References: <6E1D7060-139F-11D8-BCB7-003065D8C728@softhome.net> Message-ID: On 10 Nov 2003, at 18:20, William Ehrich wrote: > Terminal.app is the problem. It emulates the old glass TTYs like the > VT-100 and the earlier model 33 and 28 TTYs, which were used for low > speed serial access to time-shared mainframes. Uh, it's no more like them than any command line. > I learned computing on work stations: Apollo, Sun, LMI, Symbolics, and > MPW. They all had direct fast access to the cpu and memory, so their > command line interface was in a fully editable window with full mouse > navigation. This is more a symptom of the "xterm" and X11 rather than anything else unless I'm reading you completely wrong. And also sometimes of the tools used. I mean... > I guess I'm just spoiled. > So what I'm asking for is a modern command line interface, like a Sun > or MPW work station. I realize that MPW is politically impossible at > Apple, but maybe someone has made something like it which could be > ported from Unix or Linux . I've been using Solaris til late last year. I don't know what you are on about. M -- Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. From joar at joar.com Mon Nov 10 13:50:18 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU Message-ID: From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 14:01:44 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It hasn't hosed my machine..so... M From toble at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Nov 10 14:36:14 2003 From: toble at blueyonder.co.uk (Toby Morris) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU Message-ID: <06AE857F-13CE-11D8-98A0-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> It has mine . . . Doh! first airport then mail then ....... whats more - everytime the thing sleeps it needs a unix maintenance run before anything else. What the hell, I guess it was time for a spring clean anyway - I just hope that doesn't mean buying an airport extreme base station as well just so's it'll work . . . t From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 14:46:52 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: <06AE857F-13CE-11D8-98A0-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> References: <06AE857F-13CE-11D8-98A0-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: <52BF9B64-13CF-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 10 Nov 2003, at 22:34, Toby Morris wrote: > It has mine . . . Doh! first airport then mail then ....... whats > more - everytime the thing sleeps it needs a unix maintenance run > before anything else. What the hell, I guess it was time for a spring > clean anyway - I just hope that doesn't mean buying an airport extreme > base station as well just so's it'll work . . Actually Toby, I think it's just you. Don't blame a System Update when the problem is somewhere else. System Updates generally just expose problems that you already put there. Intentionally (APE) or not (oops!) M From kcall at mac.com Mon Nov 10 14:55:39 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: <52BF9B64-13CF-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <06AE857F-13CE-11D8-98A0-000393B75256@blueyonder.co.uk> <52BF9B64-13CF-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 10, 2003, at 2:43 PM, Matt wrote: > > On 10 Nov 2003, at 22:34, Toby Morris wrote: > >> It has mine . . . Doh! first airport then mail then ....... whats >> more - everytime the thing sleeps it needs a unix maintenance run >> before anything else. What the hell, I guess it was time for a spring >> clean anyway - I just hope that doesn't mean buying an airport >> extreme base station as well just so's it'll work . . > > Actually Toby, I think it's just you. > > Don't blame a System Update when the problem is somewhere else. System > Updates generally just expose problems that you already put there. > Intentionally (APE) or not (oops!) > > M so far so good here -V > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From jared at 23x.net Mon Nov 10 15:07:05 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned Message-ID: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2160562 -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "We've got a rogue SPORK on our hands. I can't imagine anything more dangerous." From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 15:13:08 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: bloody ironic advertising standards Message-ID: Due to the complaints of a few television viewers, Apple's PowerMac G5 television ad has been banned from being shown in the UK in its current form. Yet Intel implies Centrino can get a wireless connection to a mountaineer on snow-covered mountain several miles from base camp and no-one seems to care.... Gah -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Mon Nov 10 15:18:40 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: Well, Jon knew it from the beginning. "That slogan is not going to work, Steve. What about... The PowerMacintosh G5 is a KICK ASS MACHINE!???" Like always, it's Steve's fault for not listening. On related news, Prince Charles uses Macs. j. On Nov 11, 2003, at 12:06 AM, Jared Earle wrote: > http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2160562 > > -- > Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net > "We've got a rogue SPORK on our hands. > I can't imagine anything more dangerous." > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Mon Nov 10 15:28:42 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Disk permissions Message-ID: Is this right? Panther: Mac OS X 10.3 (Part 13) Michael Retondo > Raul Regalado wrote: "What exactly is the deal with disk permissions, and why > do they need repairing so often? If repairing disk permissions is so important > (and most third-party tech support documents I've seen lately always include > it as a step in standard troubleshooting), then why isn't it something that is > done automatically after a software installation or a crash?" I couldn?t agree more with Raul. Disk permissions is OS X dirty little secret. Whenever a Windows friend of mine finds out about it, I want to crawl in a hole, It?s so embarrassing. I didn?t mind it two years ago, thought it was just growing pains for new OS. But no way did I think such a serious problem would still be with us in Panther. God forbid when I do an iTunes update and then run disk permissions, the log is an inch thick. How could Apple have an update that installs new software and screws up permissions so badly every time? Apple has got to answer this for us once and for all. ...How Steve Jobs puts up with this I have no idea. I can?t believe he thinks my Mom and Dad should have to know anything about repairing disk permissions. I hate it when I have to tell people like my Mom and Dad or (worse yet) Windows converts I turned, that every time they do a software update, they must repair their disk permissions. They turn to me and say, 'but I thought that?s why I bought a Mac so I wouldn?t have to deal with this?' d*g From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Mon Nov 10 15:31:21 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" Message-ID: For another take: Panther: Mac OS X 10.3 (Part 13) Nicolas Martin To put it bluntly, Font Book may be the worst software I've encountered in 19 years of Macintosh use. It gives the most rudimentary feedback as to what is happening ? the spinning wheel. How things are accomplished is far from what used to be called "intuitive," and it unexpectedly quits. I created a new Collection and chose to Add Fonts from a folder (and subfolders) containing hundreds of fonts. The dialog that appeared did not inform me that the fonts would all be copied into a new folder, but that is apparently what happened during a very long bout of wheel spinning. After the fonts had been moved, I decided that instead of making them available "for me only," I would make them available "to all users of this computer." How easy is it to make that change? Perhaps not just difficult, but impossible? There is no automated way to alter the original choice, and, so far as I can tell, the only option is to dump the copied font files in the trash and begin anew. But this doesn't work. When I try to reload the fonts into a new Font Book Collection, the wheel does that interminable spin, but the handful of fonts that appear in the Collection are not from my chosen Font Folder! Stymied, I create another Collection and Add Fonts from a different source folder. There are dozens of fonts in that folder (and its subfolders), but only one font shows in the new Collection. Meanwhile hundreds of fonts from both source folders slowly appear in the All Fonts Collection. They've been moved, copied, or something, but into a massive, undifferentiated pool. Apparently, when you Add Fonts they are automatically activated (which is also unmentioned in the Add Fonts dialog), so my system now performs like a Mac Plus; menus stick open for minutes at a time, Word takes forever to open. Font Book Preferences gives you the option to "Always copy font files when installing." But does that mean that if the option is selected the files will be copied to the appropriate destination folder when they are added to a Collection, or does it mean that if it is not selected the files will be moved outright from the source folder to a destination folder? Both? Neither? The days when Macs were lauded for their ease of use seem as remote as the butter churn. Macs and PCs are ever more complex while the printed documentation is less than you get with a new microwave oven. Perhaps the reason most people are reluctant to make the famous switch is because they are reluctant to swap the devil they know (and can ostensibly cope with) for the devil they don't know. d*g From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 15:34:15 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: On 10 Nov 2003, at 23:06, Jared Earle wrote: > http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2160562 http://www.itc.org.uk/how_can_we_help/complain/ad_complaint_form.asp There is an advert for the Intel Centrino which implies that wireless networking available in that product can keep you in touch and a mountaineer on a snow-covered mountain is being used as an example. He plays a short sequence of video, the implication being that he is "video-conferencing" with his son. The disclaimer appears so quickly that I could not even manage to read it all and it claims that through the use of "Centrino" technology, that the internet is available wirelessly. Centrino is a normal PC chipset with 802.11b wireless protocol built in. 802.11b has an approximate range of 150 feet - certainly not able to reach up a mountain. Intel is taking advantage of the non-IT literate consumer here. The advertising is disingenuous at best. There's hardly any technology on earth that will permit video conferencing to a laptop at that rate. -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From sstevenson at mac.com Mon Nov 10 15:54:34 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <727D8D7B-13D6-11D8-B4F5-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 3:25 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: > Apple has got to answer this for us once and for all. ...How Steve > Jobs puts > up with this I have no idea. I can?t believe he thinks my Mom and Dad > should > have to know anything about repairing disk permissions. So what exactly happens if you don't repair the disk permissions? - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 15:59:49 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10 Nov 2003, at 23:25, Dan Gaters wrote: > I couldn?t agree more with Raul. Disk permissions is OS X dirty little > secret. Whenever a Windows friend of mine finds out about it, I want to > crawl in a hole, It?s so embarrassing. So, how do you make the compromise? a) I want to be able to abuse everything on my computer b) I want my computer to be rock solid. Something has to give. Apple provided a tool to fix permissions problems and YES they exist on Windows too but most windows users are too scared to go anywhere near their C:/Windows dir. From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 16:06:00 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <379419E2-13D9-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 10 Nov 2003, at 23:22, Dan Gaters wrote: > The days when Macs were lauded for their ease of use seem as remote as > the > butter churn. Macs and PCs are ever more complex while the printed > documentation is less than you get with a new microwave oven. Perhaps > the > reason most people are reluctant to make the famous switch is because > they > are reluctant to swap the devil they know (and can ostensibly cope > with) for > the devil they don't know. The dick who wrote that should have a look at a microwave oven then. The built-in UI needs a manual. I don't even want to think about my VCR... M -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Mon Nov 10 16:24:23 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: <727D8D7B-13D6-11D8-B4F5-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: "Scott Stevenson" wrote: > So what exactly happens if you don't repair the disk permissions? Some apps just don't launch/work, apparently. I've seen a few vendor directions to repair permissions in their FAQs, etc. d*g From mmalc_lists at mac.com Mon Nov 10 16:25:40 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: <727D8D7B-13D6-11D8-B4F5-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <727D8D7B-13D6-11D8-B4F5-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <5AD62FDE-13DA-11D8-AF9F-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 3:34 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> Apple has got to answer this for us once and for all. ...How Steve >> Jobs puts >> up with this I have no idea. I can?t believe he thinks my Mom and Dad >> should >> have to know anything about repairing disk permissions. > > So what exactly happens if you don't repair the disk permissions? > A big nasty troll crawls out of the woodwork, puts on a chicken mask, and starts shouting, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling." That's what Jes?s told me, anyway... mmalc From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 16:35:11 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: <9476C294-13DA-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 10 Nov 2003, at 23:22, Matt wrote: > > On 10 Nov 2003, at 23:06, Jared Earle wrote: > >> http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2160562 > > http://www.itc.org.uk/how_can_we_help/complain/ad_complaint_form.asp > > There is an advert for the Intel Centrino which implies that wireless > networking available in that product can keep you in touch and a > mountaineer on a snow-covered mountain is being used as an example. Here's the link for the advert... > everest/everest_bb.asx?iid=promoportal+tv_unwiredeveristbb&> From fabienlroy at mac.com Mon Nov 10 16:37:28 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: Also, what is the altitude? Hope that it was less than 6,000 feet. This because at higher altitude the air density is not high enough to permit the hard drive operation. Hard disk head fly over the disk plate surface. Fabien On Nov 10, 2003, at 3:22 PM, Matt wrote: > > On 10 Nov 2003, at 23:06, Jared Earle wrote: > >> http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2160562 > > http://www.itc.org.uk/how_can_we_help/complain/ad_complaint_form.asp > > There is an advert for the Intel Centrino which implies that wireless > networking available in that product can keep you in touch and a > mountaineer on a snow-covered mountain is being used as an example. He > plays a short sequence of video, the implication being that he is > "video-conferencing" with his son. > > The disclaimer appears so quickly that I could not even manage to read > it all and it claims that through the use of "Centrino" technology, > that the internet is available wirelessly. Centrino is a normal PC > chipset with 802.11b wireless protocol built in. 802.11b has an > approximate range of 150 feet - certainly not able to reach up a > mountain. Intel is taking advantage of the non-IT literate consumer > here. The advertising is disingenuous at best. > > There's hardly any technology on earth that will permit video > conferencing to a laptop at that rate. > > > -- > Northern Ireland Mac User Group > http://www.nimug.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From ssobek at stevesobek.net Mon Nov 10 16:39:43 2003 From: ssobek at stevesobek.net (Steve Sobek) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't think he's saying get rid of permissions. I think he's saying that the OS should take care of fixing them automatically, which I have to agree with him on. Maybe make it one of the overnight maintenance tasks the OS does? Have it done automatically like Panther's defrag mechanism? All we're saying is that every time we install something, all of the permissions are obviously getting fragged somehow, and having to tell a Windows user -- 'Oh, by the way, you have to do this to make it run right' -- does kinda make me a bit embarrassed as well... -S On Nov 10, 2003, at 6:51 PM, Matt wrote: >> I couldn?t agree more with Raul. Disk permissions is OS X dirty little >> secret. Whenever a Windows friend of mine finds out about it, I want >> to >> crawl in a hole, It?s so embarrassing. > > So, how do you make the compromise? > > a) I want to be able to abuse everything on my computer > b) I want my computer to be rock solid. From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 16:40:40 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: On 11 Nov 2003, at 00:19, Fabien Roy wrote: > Also, what is the altitude? Hope that it was less than 6,000 feet. > This because at higher altitude the air density is not high enough to > permit the hard drive operation. Hard disk head fly over the disk > plate surface. The advert is on intel's site and labelled 'everest' M From ehrich at mninter.net Mon Nov 10 16:56:10 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: <9DFFC4EC-13C2-11D8-BCFF-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <9DFFC4EC-13C2-11D8-BCFF-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: >Xcode also has worksheets -- in other words, the MPW functionality I >believe you're looking for. It works! That's what I was looking for, although incomplete. I hope they finish building it so that it can maintain context: working directory, aliases, etc. Maybe even to use to execute a command. :-) -- Bill Ehrich From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Mon Nov 10 16:58:26 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: <20031110235547.GE391@Dark-Age.local> On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 12:06:27AM +0100, Jared Earle wrote: : : http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2160562 Scratch the surface of almost every TV commercial, and you'll find that they are all arguable misleading. *yawn* -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From fabienlroy at mac.com Mon Nov 10 17:12:24 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <9476C294-13DA-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> <9476C294-13DA-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <54A9B610-13E2-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Hearing the add, there is a blatant lie! No non pressurized hard drive can function at 17k feet of altitude! Somebody should complain about this add. Fabien On Nov 10, 2003, at 4:04 PM, Matt wrote: > > On 10 Nov 2003, at 23:22, Matt wrote: > >> >> On 10 Nov 2003, at 23:06, Jared Earle wrote: >> >>> http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2160562 >> >> http://www.itc.org.uk/how_can_we_help/complain/ad_complaint_form.asp >> >> There is an advert for the Intel Centrino which implies that wireless >> networking available in that product can keep you in touch and a >> mountaineer on a snow-covered mountain is being used as an example. > > Here's the link for the advert... >> > unwire/everest/everest_bb.asx?iid=promoportal+tv_unwiredeveristbb&> > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From jared at 23x.net Mon Nov 10 17:13:01 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: <603D698C-13E2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> On 11 Nov 2003, at 01:19, Fabien Roy wrote: > Also, what is the altitude? Hope that it was less than 6,000 feet. > This because at higher altitude the air density is not high enough to > permit the hard drive operation. Hard disk head fly over the disk > plate surface. The advert states '17,000 feet'. -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "So long, and thanks for all the SPORK" From chad at objectwerks.com Mon Nov 10 17:19:50 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: <7E1F1424-13E3-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 5:19 PM, Fabien Roy wrote: > Also, what is the altitude? Hope that it was less than 6,000 feet. > This because at higher altitude the air density is not high enough to > permit the hard drive operation. Hard disk head fly over the disk > plate surface. But at higher than 6000ft. Airplanes are pressurized to around 8000ft and places in Wyoming are above 6000 ft and computers and hard disks work fine there. Chad > > Fabien > On Nov 10, 2003, at 3:22 PM, Matt wrote: > >> >> On 10 Nov 2003, at 23:06, Jared Earle wrote: >> >>> http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2160562 >> >> http://www.itc.org.uk/how_can_we_help/complain/ad_complaint_form.asp >> >> There is an advert for the Intel Centrino which implies that wireless >> networking available in that product can keep you in touch and a >> mountaineer on a snow-covered mountain is being used as an example. >> He plays a short sequence of video, the implication being that he is >> "video-conferencing" with his son. >> >> The disclaimer appears so quickly that I could not even manage to >> read it all and it claims that through the use of "Centrino" >> technology, that the internet is available wirelessly. Centrino is a >> normal PC chipset with 802.11b wireless protocol built in. 802.11b >> has an approximate range of 150 feet - certainly not able to reach up >> a mountain. Intel is taking advantage of the non-IT literate consumer >> here. The advertising is disingenuous at best. >> >> There's hardly any technology on earth that will permit video >> conferencing to a laptop at that rate. >> >> >> -- >> Northern Ireland Mac User Group >> http://www.nimug.org/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >> > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Mon Nov 10 17:21:13 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031111010758.GC352@Dark-Age.local> On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 06:22:27PM -0500, Dan Gaters wrote: : : Panther: Mac OS X 10.3 (Part 13) : : : Nicolas Martin : : To put it bluntly, Font Book may be the worst software I've encountered in : 19 years of Macintosh use. [...] 1. This is one person's opinion. 2. Don't mistake the tree for the forest. 3. Quoting one person's complaints without adding your own comments is tantamount to trolling, JK. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Nov 10 17:25:13 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: at 20031110, 16:19 -0800, they whom i call Fabien Roy wrote: >Also, what is the altitude? the ad intones "everest base camp" which is about 17,500 feet > Hope that it was less than 6,000 feet. This because at higher >altitude the air density is not high enough to permit the hard drive >operation. Hard disk head fly over the disk plate surface. where did you get that figure? i see no pressure limits on the environmental specs of my Seagate drive.. i live at 5000+ feet, and have friends at 8 or 9000 feet whose hard drives work fine, long term.. effective pressure of an airliner cabin can approach similar values -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Nov 10 17:25:50 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031110, 19:20 -0500, they whom i call Steve Sobek wrote: >Maybe make it one of the overnight maintenance tasks the OS does? >Have it done automatically like Panther's defrag mechanism? there are a few (non-Apple) utilities which will do this for you >All we're saying is that every time we install something, all of the >permissions are obviously getting fragged somehow, in the interest of accuracy, it's only *some* installers which do this, and they are only affecting *some* files' permissions -- steve harley From fabienlroy at mac.com Mon Nov 10 17:33:35 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <7E1F1424-13E3-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> <7E1F1424-13E3-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: I was maybe too conservative and maybe not accustomed to the non metric system :-). But the add said 17k feet altitude (17000.000 foot [ft] equivalent to:5181.60 meter [m]). I think that the limit for hard drive is 3000 m or 9842.4 feet. So basically I was wrong about those 6k feet. Fabien On Nov 10, 2003, at 5:08 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > On Nov 10, 2003, at 5:19 PM, Fabien Roy wrote: > >> Also, what is the altitude? Hope that it was less than 6,000 feet. >> This because at higher altitude the air density is not high enough to >> permit the hard drive operation. Hard disk head fly over the disk >> plate surface. > > But at higher than 6000ft. Airplanes are pressurized to around 8000ft > and places in Wyoming are above 6000 ft and computers and hard disks > work fine there. > > Chad > > >> >> Fabien >> On Nov 10, 2003, at 3:22 PM, Matt wrote: >> >>> >>> On 10 Nov 2003, at 23:06, Jared Earle wrote: >>> >>>> http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2160562 >>> >>> http://www.itc.org.uk/how_can_we_help/complain/ad_complaint_form.asp >>> >>> There is an advert for the Intel Centrino which implies that >>> wireless networking available in that product can keep you in touch >>> and a mountaineer on a snow-covered mountain is being used as an >>> example. He plays a short sequence of video, the implication being >>> that he is "video-conferencing" with his son. >>> >>> The disclaimer appears so quickly that I could not even manage to >>> read it all and it claims that through the use of "Centrino" >>> technology, that the internet is available wirelessly. Centrino is a >>> normal PC chipset with 802.11b wireless protocol built in. 802.11b >>> has an approximate range of 150 feet - certainly not able to reach >>> up a mountain. Intel is taking advantage of the non-IT literate >>> consumer here. The advertising is disingenuous at best. >>> >>> There's hardly any technology on earth that will permit video >>> conferencing to a laptop at that rate. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Northern Ireland Mac User Group >>> http://www.nimug.org/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From fabienlroy at mac.com Mon Nov 10 17:34:54 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <603D698C-13E2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> <603D698C-13E2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: I really would like to hear the hard drive noise at that altitude! BTW normal people need supplemental oxygen at that altitude :-) You can do stupid stuff while under hypoxia. Fabien On Nov 10, 2003, at 5:00 PM, Jared Earle wrote: > On 11 Nov 2003, at 01:19, Fabien Roy wrote: >> Also, what is the altitude? Hope that it was less than 6,000 feet. >> This because at higher altitude the air density is not high enough to >> permit the hard drive operation. Hard disk head fly over the disk >> plate surface. > > The advert states '17,000 feet'. > > -- > Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net > "So long, and thanks for all the SPORK" > From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 17:37:23 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: <20031111010758.GC352@Dark-Age.local> References: <20031111010758.GC352@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <019D83CF-13E6-11D8-AFDC-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 11 Nov 2003, at 01:07, Eugene Lee wrote: > On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 06:22:27PM -0500, Dan Gaters wrote: > : > : Panther: Mac OS X 10.3 (Part 13) > : > : > : Nicolas Martin > : > : To put it bluntly, Font Book may be the worst software I've > encountered in > : 19 years of Macintosh use. > [...] > > 1. This is one person's opinion. I didn't notice the URL. One punk on Macintouch is not worth a spit. I mean COME ON. Scrape the bottom of the barrel, Dan. From nathan at valuecommerce.ne.jp Mon Nov 10 17:46:26 2003 From: nathan at valuecommerce.ne.jp (Nathan Ollerenshaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <54A9B610-13E2-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> <9476C294-13DA-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <54A9B610-13E2-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <08AB0230-13E7-11D8-AAB2-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> Kind of amusing that as soon as an Apple Ad is pulled, Mac users run around trying to get Intel, Microsoft - whatever - Ads pulled too. No wonder we get a bad reputation as "Fanatics". Just because we like Apple doesn't mean we should go to battle for them. Just my 2c. Nathan. -- Nathan Ollerenshaw - Unix Systems Engineer ValueCommerce - http://www.valuecommerce.ne.jp/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2381 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031110/1d35f1d0/smime.bin From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Nov 10 17:50:14 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <7E1F1424-13E3-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> <7E1F1424-13E3-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On Nov 10, 2003, at 5:19 PM, Fabien Roy wrote: >Also, what is the altitude? Hope that it was less than 6,000 feet. >This because at higher altitude the air density is not high enough >to permit the hard drive operation. Hard disk head fly over the disk >plate surface. dug up info on a modern Seagate 3.5" drive and the operating limit is 10,000 feet, non-operating, 40,000.. more relevant would be a typical laptop drive, if it's at all different -- steve harley From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 17:54:36 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: On 11 Nov 2003, at 01:08, steve harley wrote: > at 20031110, 16:19 -0800, they whom i call Fabien Roy wrote: >> Also, what is the altitude? > > the ad intones "everest base camp" which is about 17,500 > feet > >> Hope that it was less than 6,000 feet. This because at higher >> altitude the air density is not high enough to permit the hard drive >> operation. Hard disk head fly over the disk plate surface. > > where did you get that figure? i see no pressure limits on > the environmental specs of my Seagate drive.. http://www.basoncomputer.com/ST3146807LCV_O/item.aspx Seagate Cheetah ST3146807LCV Operating Temperature (min): 5 deg C Operating Altitude (max) 3,048 m Operating Altitude (min) -305 m Nonoperating Altitude (max) 12,210 m Nonoperating Altitude (min) -305 m http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?DriveID=42 Clicko n Environmental: Altitude (English) Operating (English) -1,000 feet to 10,000 feet Non-operating (English) -1,000 feet to 40,000 feet So, it wouldn't[1] work at 17 000 feet. It could be "off" and non-spinning at that altitude. M [1] heck it may work, but it would break the whole warranty thing. From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Nov 10 17:55:07 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: <019D83CF-13E6-11D8-AFDC-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <9BCF9714-13E8-11D8-9A06-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 05:25 PM, Matt wrote: > > On 11 Nov 2003, at 01:07, Eugene Lee wrote: > >> On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 06:22:27PM -0500, Dan Gaters wrote: >> : >> : Panther: Mac OS X 10.3 (Part 13) >> : >> : >> : Nicolas Martin >> : >> : To put it bluntly, Font Book may be the worst software I've >> encountered in >> : 19 years of Macintosh use. >> [...] I'm not going to get sucked into this Thread of Death? again, my position has been stated, but if this guy thinks FontBook is the worst app on the Mac OS in 19 years then I don't think he's installed anything since that FatMac of his was new. That's such a complete and obvious lie that I won't even bother with the rest; we've debated the obvious limits of Font Book, but that kind of hyperbole is best labeled. -R From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Nov 10 18:06:40 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 05:12 PM, steve harley wrote: > at 20031110, 19:20 -0500, they whom i call Steve Sobek wrote: >> Maybe make it one of the overnight maintenance tasks the OS does? >> Have it done automatically like Panther's defrag mechanism? > > there are a few (non-Apple) utilities which will do this for you > >> All we're saying is that every time we install something, all of the >> permissions are obviously getting fragged somehow, Who? I have very few permissions related problems, at least that I can tell. All my apps work fine, all my personal files (several hundred thousand when you include my media collections) have the right permissions, and my systems run really well even after multiple updates without running Repair Permissions. Maybe you borked your permissions by futzing with them too much? > in the interest of accuracy, it's only *some* installers > which do this, and they are only affecting *some* files' > permissions Which is what puts this whole thread (or the originating quoted post from Macintouch) into perspective as an obvious troll: > I couldn?t agree more with Raul. Disk permissions is OS X dirty little > secret. Whenever a Windows friend of mine finds out about it, I want > to crawl in a hole, It?s so embarrassing. First of all, why is this person embarrassed? Why are they so personally invested in this that a maintenance routine on their platform of choice has become a source of shame... talk about status obsessed self-importance - did this person write the code that is so fatally flawed? That would be embarrassing (maybe, at least for this reason). > I didn?t mind it two years ago, thought it was just growing pains for > new OS. But no way did I think such a serious problem would still be > with us in Panther. God forbid when I do an iTunes update and then > run disk permissions, the log is an inch thick. How could Apple have > an update that installs new software and screws up permissions so > badly every time? This is the kind of person who not only feels compelled to run Repair Permissions at every install or update, but who's now blaming Apple because he's decided to advise others to do so. Screw that; I have run Repair Permissions maybe twice in the past two years, both after running into problems that seemed logical to turn to Disk Utility to help repair. I install applications of every ilk (though more towards the media end) weekly as part of my professional life. I also live by the maxim - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If this person chooses to perform preventative maintenace at every turn, well that's their choice, but it's just not necessary. If they run into a problem, yes, it's nice to have the option. > > Apple has got to answer this for us once and for all. ...How Steve > Jobs puts up with this I have no idea. I can?t believe he thinks my > Mom and Dad should have to know anything about repairing disk > permissions. I hate it when I have to tell people like my Mom and Dad > or (worse yet) Windows converts I turned, that every time they do a > software update, they must repair their disk permissions. They turn > to me and say, 'but I thought that?s why I bought a Mac so I wouldn?t > have to deal with this?' Because you've poisoned them by making them think that every time they do anything they must run Permissions Repair. You probably also showed average users how to defrag their harddrives every week to keep the harddisk gremlins at bay... seemed a bit unwieldy to Ma n' Pa then too, didn't it? Here's a clue - Steve Jobs doesn't run Repair Permissions every day, or even every week, because it isn't necessary. That you tell your parents to run a process prophylactically that only needs to be run if there's indeed a problem affecting their use of their computer *is* the problem. Chances are, you don't even understand the meaning of the things that scroll by in the repair log, but it makes you feel technical just to see it, and then righteous to complain that it shouldn't be necessary. Hey, guess what? It might be nice to have Repair Permissions run nightly along with the other processes. It's also HIGHLY unnecessary to run it after every update or install - I surely don't, nor anyone I deal with, and my systems run just fine. If I suspect a problem I might consider running it (especially as it's so easy and non-invasive), and then I typically notice a bunch of things that won't affect me, and maybe a few things fixed that might have. Your mom and dad need to no no more about permissions than they do about drive sector sizes. If they have a problem, then you can instruct them to 1) Open Disk Utility 2) Click Repair Permissions 3) Get on with their lives (and teach you how, while they're at it). Hey, there's another way it's just not like Windows - the repair is simple and works, no money to third-parties needed. Jesus, people annoy me some times. -R From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 18:08:51 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <08AB0230-13E7-11D8-AAB2-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> <9476C294-13DA-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <54A9B610-13E2-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <08AB0230-13E7-11D8-AAB2-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: On 11 Nov 2003, at 01:33, Nathan Ollerenshaw wrote: > Kind of amusing that as soon as an Apple Ad is pulled, Mac users run > around trying to get Intel, Microsoft - whatever - Ads pulled too. Well, it's a fair point (and one I raised a week or more ago grumbling about the Centrino one before any hint of the ITC getting involved with the Apple one). Lots of big companies need their adverts checked. We get a lot more Intel hyperbole and Microsoft bullshit than we ever got out of Apple. > No wonder we get a bad reputation as "Fanatics". You think that the 8 people who complained had any less of an agenda? > Just because we like Apple doesn't mean we should go to battle for > them. Just because you like a Mac doesn't mean you should go battle for them. I considered this when thinking of the Mac Marines. If not for the people fighting the corner, would we even have Macs now? M -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Mon Nov 10 18:18:10 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: <019D83CF-13E6-11D8-AFDC-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: "Matt" wrote: > One punk on Macintouch is not worth a spit. I mean COME ON. Scrape the > bottom of the barrel, Dan. So one "designer's" opinion of FB as "adequate" is quote-worthy, but when someone else offers a negative opinion that makes him a worthless punk? Oh, OK, I get it. :-) Not that *what* he says matters at all. BTW, what would be the worst Mac software ever? d*g From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Nov 10 18:48:03 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Mr. Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: <8C34446A-13EB-11D8-AF9F-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <9BCF9714-13E8-11D8-9A06-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <8C34446A-13EB-11D8-AF9F-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <51C8A204-13F1-11D8-A12A-003065D5BC42@mac.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 6:05 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > Hi Roger, > > On Nov 10, 2003, at 5:44 PM, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > >> we've debated the obvious limits of Font Book, but that kind of >> hyperbole is best labeled. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Is best labeled *what*?!" Heh... oh, it's just best labelled... I prefer Red -R From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Nov 10 19:05:02 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: MacInTouch (was: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer") In-Reply-To: <019D83CF-13E6-11D8-AFDC-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <20031111010758.GC352@Dark-Age.local> <019D83CF-13E6-11D8-AFDC-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031111, 01:25 +0000, they whom i call Matt wrote: >I didn't notice the URL. > >One punk on Macintouch is not worth a spit. out of context, most quotes from a MacInTouch reader report are basically useless.. MacInTouch is best read with a mental filter, looking for patterns and people who can comment with restraint.. with that approach the breaking news in the "reports" can be quite useful.. i wish the editors would moderate the reports or at least flag the claims proved spurious -- steve harley From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 10 19:16:05 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <582B9B00-13F5-11D8-929A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 11 Nov 2003, at 02:09, Dan Gaters wrote: > So one "designer's" opinion of FB as "adequate" is quote-worthy, but > when > someone else offers a negative opinion that makes him a worthless punk? I respect Jim Dalrymple. I don't know that other guy from Adam. Why would his opinion matter more? > Oh, OK, I get it. :-) Not that *what* he says matters at all. It does. He's obviously LYING when he calls it the worst in 19 years. I mean - did he ever actually use System 7? Has he ever had to explain to a user where his Stickies content went? > BTW, what would be the worst Mac software ever? Software by Apple: AppleWorks 6 or Stickies. Software by 3rd Party: Woo. Outlook Express/Entourage -- Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. From sstevenson at mac.com Mon Nov 10 19:20:14 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 10, 2003, at 4:01 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: >> So what exactly happens if you don't repair the disk permissions? > > Some apps just don't launch/work, apparently. Has this ever happened to you, personally? I've never repaired disk permissions and all my apps launch fine. I've never done it for any of my family's machines, my girlfriend's, or her family's computers. If people feel the need to constantly practice some form of troubleshooting voodoo, that's their business. But unless they install hacks that bend the rules of proper Mac OS X software design, the system should basically take care of itself. If this type of maintenance was actually required on a regular basis, I think we'd hear a lot more about it. > I've seen a few vendor directions to repair permissions in their FAQs, > etc. Vendors aren't the experts in anything but their own products, and sometimes not even that. People who write those docs usually aren't engineers, and often have little understanding about how the OS actually works. I've had technicians at ISPs tell me I had to reboot my Mac when changing the IP address. I just sort of say "uh-huh, I'm rebooting now" and instead just apply the new network settings and everything works. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From zbir at urbanape.com Mon Nov 10 19:39:04 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92548B09-13F8-11D8-9FA3-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 6:22 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: > For another take: > > Panther: Mac OS X 10.3 (Part 13) > > > Nicolas Martin > > To put it bluntly, Font Book may be the worst software I've > encountered in > 19 years of Macintosh use. Obviously, he's never surfed . Zac -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031110/ef7a259d/smime.bin From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Mon Nov 10 19:42:54 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Multiple Admin Users/Deleting Admin User Message-ID: <00FE0F1D-13F9-11D8-8543-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Hi, I know this rather ignorant question, but so be it.. Is it possible to switch (preferably without having to resort to UNIX commands) the "Admin/Standard" status of two user accounts? From what I understand about MacOSX users privs, Admin users can install applications, Standard users can't. Is it possible to create two admin users on the same machine (or two users will exactly identical privileges)? Jim From tallama at mac.com Mon Nov 10 19:47:06 2003 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: odd files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What's in them? Open with TextEdit/SubEthaEdit/BBEdit/jEdit/*Edit. On Nov 9, 2003, at 10:13 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > What are /Library/Preferences/cf#c5Nss and > /Library/Preferences/cf#yd7UZ ? > > They stick out in a list of .plist pref files with readable names. > Both have permissions 0600. > Mod date at system installation time. > > Maybe it's paranoid, but in PCs strange files often mean virus or worm. > > > -- Bill Ehrich > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031110/924bf35f/smime.bin From tallama at mac.com Mon Nov 10 19:49:31 2003 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 6, 2003, at 9:09 PM, David Cake wrote: > At 8:52 PM -0800 6/11/03, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >> On Nov 6, 2003, at 8:23 PM, David Cake wrote: >>> At 4:56 PM -0800 6/11/03, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >>>> On Nov 6, 2003, at 4:19 PM, Jason Kamen wrote: >>>>>> why would Rhapsody be any different? >>>>> "I had in mind a hardware-agnostic operating system. That's what >>>>> Rhapsody >>>>> was all about," said Amelio in a recent interview on CNET Radio. >>>> And to repeat: that's exactly what we have. >>> Mac OS X only runs on Apple hardware - its Darwin thats platform >>> agnostic. That's significantly different to the Rhapsody era plans, >>> not just in strategy but in what we end up with. >>> Kind of like saying "I'm agnostic, but I'd never live in a country >>> that wasn't catholic". >>> >> No, not at all. The OS remains platform agnostic. >> > > Except for all the bits that aren't. > You can't really claim the OS is platform agnostic except by claiming > that Quartz, Aqua, Cocoa etc are platform agnostic, or not parts of > the OS. Which would score some points, but I wouldn't say it was > actually proving yourself more correct. It's Important to note that OS X is a different OS than Darwin here. Darwin is platform-agnostic. OS X is built on Darwin, using bits that (as far as is publicly known) compile only on the PPC architecture. However, those bits are the categories so far mention: Quartz PDF with optimizations. PDF works on Intel and other platforms. Aqua A specific use of Quartz. For porting, see Quartz, above. Cocoa A runtime environment and class library for Objective-C that ran on other platforms before, and recently stopped shipping for those platforms. There is little to imply that it really stopped supporting those platforms. A run of "strings" on iTunes/Win will reveal some interesting class names... Quicktime: A Carbon framework that is already ported to Intel. Carbon: A C library that traces its roots back to Classic, through System 7 to a Pascal library called "the toolbox" that has been used since the first Mac, when Andy Hertzfeld and Bill Atkinson wrote it. This is unarguably the toughest part to port, as it has no history of running anywhere but Mac processors. But wait: "Mac processors" includes a CISC chip (68k Motorolas) and a RISC chip (PPCs), so the library has seen porting before, and said port was backwards-compatible, so must have retained a veneer of architecture independence. This leaves alone other improvements that may have found their way into the Toolbox as part of other failed initiatives like Star Trek and Pink. Now, I'm not saying that any of this is going to be easy, but I'm not saying it's anywhere close to impossible. Sure, Carbon support is a must if you're going to port OS X to Intel. However, if that framework is well-designed (and we have no reason to assume otherwise), the port should not be something a major software company like Apple would have issues with; indeed, it might be a fait accompli at this point, as each version of OSX might well have worked harder and harder to push the code into a more processor-independent state (for later porting to G5s, G6s, etc). Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031110/c770ff31/smime.bin From zbir at urbanape.com Mon Nov 10 19:54:50 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: odd files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95BEBD6A-13FA-11D8-9FA3-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Nov 9, 2003, at 3:24 PM, The Amazing Llama wrote: > What's in them? Open with TextEdit/SubEthaEdit/BBEdit/jEdit/*Edit. :D Zac From zbir at urbanape.com Mon Nov 10 19:55:59 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Multiple Admin Users/Deleting Admin User In-Reply-To: <00FE0F1D-13F9-11D8-8543-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> References: <00FE0F1D-13F9-11D8-8543-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: On Nov 10, 2003, at 10:41 PM, Jim Witte wrote: > Hi, > > I know this rather ignorant question, but so be it.. Is it possible > to switch (preferably without having to resort to UNIX commands) the > "Admin/Standard" status of two user accounts? From what I understand > about MacOSX users privs, Admin users can install applications, > Standard users can't. > > Is it possible to create two admin users on the same machine (or two > users will exactly identical privileges)? Sure. Give them both admin privileges. Under the "Security" tab of the Accounts pref pane. My wife and I are both admins on the family iMac. Zac -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031110/f6ef6da1/smime.bin From lists at drunkenbatman.com Mon Nov 10 20:25:20 2003 From: lists at drunkenbatman.com (db) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031110232313336720.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:05:51 -0800, The Amazing Llama wrote: > A C library that traces its roots back to Classic, through System 7 > to a Pascal library called "the toolbox" that has been used since the > first Mac, when Andy Hertzfeld and Bill Atkinson wrote it. This is > unarguably the toughest part to port, as it has no history of running > anywhere but Mac processors. But wait: "Mac processors" includes a > CISC chip (68k Motorolas) and a RISC chip (PPCs), so the library has > seen porting before, and said port was backwards-compatible, so must > have retained a veneer of architecture independence. Just to nitpick... this wasn't really ported, but emulated, which is why the transition went so well. PPC's would run 68k code, but at about half the speed. Since PPC was about twice the speed of 68k, basically all your old apps ran at the speed you expected, but native PPC apps got the real boost. Large (IE, extremely large... down to the file system) parts of the classic OS ran in emulation on PPC. Throughout the revisions to the OS 68k chunks were rewritten for PPC, which kinda started the whole "every revision seems to get faster" thing in the mac world. If you go back and read articles at the time you'll hear lots of stuff about how rhapsody will be the first fully-native OS at the time, and will bring a large speed boost across the board because of it. From mmalc_lists at mac.com Mon Nov 10 20:52:12 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 9, 2003, at 11:05 AM, The Amazing Llama wrote: > Carbon: > A C library that traces its roots back to Classic, through System 7 > to a Pascal library called "the toolbox" that has been used since the > first Mac, when Andy Hertzfeld and Bill Atkinson wrote it. This is > unarguably the toughest part to port, as it has no history of running > anywhere but Mac processors. Actually, it does have some history -- Star Trek... mmalc From omnilists at nhampton.net Mon Nov 10 22:58:01 2003 From: omnilists at nhampton.net (Nathan Hampton) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <08AB0230-13E7-11D8-AAB2-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> <9476C294-13DA-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <54A9B610-13E2-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <08AB0230-13E7-11D8-AAB2-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <3BCBC00C-1414-11D8-8FCD-000A95A05242@nhampton.net> On 10 Nov 2003, at 7:33 PM, Nathan Ollerenshaw wrote: > Kind of amusing that as soon as an Apple Ad is pulled, Mac users run > around trying to get Intel, Microsoft - whatever - Ads pulled too. Doesn't bother me. If the Wintel world doesn't complain about a little hyperbole in Macintosh ads, the Macintosh world won't complain about gross inaccuracies in Wintel ads. On the other hand, if the Wintel crowd tries to complain about an exaggeration (hardly a rare ocurance in the advertising sector), then the Macintosh crowd is perfectly justified in complaining about advertising a demonstrably unlikely capability, to wit: The specs for my PowerBook state that the lowest operating temperature is 50 degrees Farenheit. While the machine in the Centrino ad isn't (obviously) a PowerBook, I can't imagine that any maker of consumer-grade computers has technology that is sufficiently advanced to allow it to operate flawlessly in what I assume must be sub-zero (Farenheit) temperatures. Forget altitude, folks. That machine would be (if you'll forgive my hyperbole) frozen solid. > No wonder we get a bad reputation as "Fanatics". The only reason that users of Macintosh are labeled "fanatics" is because they are a minority. No group that is in the majority ever gets labeled as "fanatics" until everyone involved is long dead (and usually not even then). The only reason Windows users that spread inaccurate and/or exaggerated information about their preferred products (and BOTH sides do that) aren't painted with the same brush is that there are a lot more of them. > Just because we like Apple doesn't mean we should go to battle for > them. You're right. And some Macintosh users don't like Apple one bit, but still go to bat (and note that I'm leaving the term 'battle' out of this to help calm tempers) for the hardware and OS. A lot more don't say anything because they are sick and tired of being laughed at for choosing Macintosh. However, none of that means that we shouldn't become vocally upset when we see a double standard being applied, which is what we're seeing here. If Apple can't say they're the world's fastest, then Intel shouldn't be able to say it's machines will work at sub-zero (F) temperatures. Hold everyone to the same standard, or the same lack of standards. > Just my 2c. Just my 2c in reply. > Nathan. Nathan. > -- > Nathan Ollerenshaw - Unix Systems Engineer > ValueCommerce - http://www.valuecommerce.ne.jp/ From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Nov 10 22:58:45 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031110, 19:19 -0800, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: >If people feel the need to constantly practice some form of >troubleshooting voodoo, that's their business. But unless they >install hacks that bend the rules of proper Mac OS X software >design, the system should basically take care of itself. > >If this type of maintenance was actually required on a regular >basis, I think we'd hear a lot more about it. i'm not sure i've ever had a problem traceable to permissions.. i've run repair permissions maybe five times since the tool appeared, and only seen a few oddball changes, probably insignificant, in the log.. but i've read credible reports here and there, where the problem has been diagnosed with specifics as to an installer setting permissions incorrectly in the first place, usually one built with InstallerVise -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Nov 10 22:59:10 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031109, 11:05 -0800, they whom i call The Amazing Llama wrote: >Quicktime: > A Carbon framework that is already ported to Intel. > >Carbon: > A C library that traces its roots back to Classic, through System >7 to a Pascal library called "the toolbox" that has been used since >the first Mac, when Andy Hertzfeld and Bill Atkinson wrote it. This >is unarguably the toughest part to port, as it has no history of >running anywhere but Mac processors. isn't it true that QuickTime for Windows encapsulates a fair portion of Carbon? -- steve harley From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Mon Nov 10 23:15:01 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: <019D83CF-13E6-11D8-AFDC-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031111071415.GE352@Dark-Age.local> On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 09:09:58PM -0500, Dan Gaters wrote: : : "Matt" wrote: : > : > One punk on Macintouch is not worth a spit. I mean COME ON. Scrape the : > bottom of the barrel, Dan. : : So one "designer's" opinion of FB as "adequate" is quote-worthy, but when : someone else offers a negative opinion that makes him a worthless punk? When your email quotes 2 pages of one person's posting without comments, that makes *your* email worthless, JK. : Oh, OK, I get it. :-) Not that *what* he says matters at all. He is just one person with one opinion. There are other people with other opinions that you did not quote in their entirety. : BTW, what would be the worst Mac software ever? Word 6? -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From mark at imap-partners.net Mon Nov 10 23:25:03 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:21 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: <20031111071415.GE352@Dark-Age.local> References: <019D83CF-13E6-11D8-AFDC-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <20031111071415.GE352@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: On 11 Nov 2003, at 8:14, Eugene Lee wrote: > On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 09:09:58PM -0500, Dan Gaters wrote: > >> BTW, what would be the worst Mac software ever? > > Word 6? Indeed, a worthy candidate, as is any other shite that (by default) places a full screen width toolbar at the top and/or bottom of the screen. But lets not forget System 7.5. mark. From nathan at valuecommerce.ne.jp Mon Nov 10 23:27:47 2003 From: nathan at valuecommerce.ne.jp (Nathan Ollerenshaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <3BCBC00C-1414-11D8-8FCD-000A95A05242@nhampton.net> References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> <9476C294-13DA-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <54A9B610-13E2-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <08AB0230-13E7-11D8-AAB2-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> <3BCBC00C-1414-11D8-8FCD-000A95A05242@nhampton.net> Message-ID: On Nov 11, 2003, at 3:56 PM, Nathan Hampton wrote: > Doesn't bother me. If the Wintel world doesn't complain about a > little hyperbole in Macintosh ads, the Macintosh world won't complain > about gross inaccuracies in Wintel ads. I just had a look at the Centrino ad. Yup, it's blatantly inaccurate. But, so is the Apple ad. Eh, but I'm just rehashing what's been said a thousand times on slashdot and at least a hundred times on this list. So I'll stop right there. > Forget altitude, folks. That machine would be (if you'll forgive my > hyperbole) frozen solid. Well, unless you could get it to operating temperature with bodyheat or something - then it would be able to generate enough heat to keep you alive AND to operate! :D My 17" is quite warm most of the time ... amusing thought. News at 6: Man kept alive by his Macintosh! Mind you, after a couple of hours, the battery would give out. Always bring a spare ... >> No wonder we get a bad reputation as "Fanatics". > > The only reason that users of Macintosh are labeled "fanatics" is > because they are a minority. No group that is in the majority ever > gets labeled as "fanatics" until everyone involved is long dead (and > usually not even then). The only reason Windows users that spread > inaccurate and/or exaggerated information about their preferred > products (and BOTH sides do that) aren't painted with the same brush > is that there are a lot more of them. Point taken. In fact, in the wintel world it's worse - you get people arguing over whose chipset is better - VIA or nVidia. Should I use AMD? Or Intel? etc. > You're right. And some Macintosh users don't like Apple one bit, but > still go to bat (and note that I'm leaving the term 'battle' out of > this to help calm tempers) for the hardware and OS. A lot more don't > say anything because they are sick and tired of being laughed at for > choosing Macintosh. However, none of that means that we shouldn't > become If people get laughed at for what computing platform they choose and they don't do anything to help fix the image, then they're just allowing the perpetuation of the myth that 'Macs suck'. I come to work every day, and proudly work on my personally-owned 17" powerbook because its 100x better than the IBM NetVista workstations that my company provides. The others in my team use Linux and Solaris, and they all envy the ability of my Mac to 'just work'. (Linux is getting there, slowly but surely) People's reactions are usually ridicule, followed by amusement then followed by amazement after I show them how nice my working environment is, and how doing things like plugging in an external device doesn't make it crash or pop up a window asking to install a driver. > vocally upset when we see a double standard being applied, which is > what we're seeing here. If Apple can't say they're the world's > fastest, then Intel shouldn't be able to say it's machines will work > at sub-zero (F) temperatures. Hold everyone to the same standard, or > the same lack of standards. Fair enough. Can't argue with that :) >> Just my 2c. > > Just my 2c in reply. I raise you 4c. >> Nathan. > > Nathan. Nathan. -- Nathan Ollerenshaw - Unix Systems Engineer ValueCommerce - http://www.valuecommerce.ne.jp/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2381 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031110/4a03fb1d/smime.bin From celkins at mac.com Mon Nov 10 23:34:03 2003 From: celkins at mac.com (Christopher Elkins) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5F6EAAFC-1419-11D8-9A94-000393B7C8FA@mac.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 10:43 PM, steve harley wrote: > at 20031110, 19:19 -0800, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: >> If people feel the need to constantly practice some form of >> troubleshooting voodoo, that's their business. But unless they >> install hacks that bend the rules of proper Mac OS X software design, >> the system should basically take care of itself. >> >> If this type of maintenance was actually required on a regular basis, >> I think we'd hear a lot more about it. > > i'm not sure i've ever had a problem traceable to > permissions.. i've run repair permissions maybe five times > since the tool appeared, and only seen a few oddball > changes, probably insignificant, in the log.. but i've read > credible reports here and there, where the problem has been > diagnosed with specifics as to an installer setting > permissions incorrectly in the first place, usually one > built with InstallerVise It's not a myth. I experienced this yesterday re-installing Photoshop Elements after a clean Panther install. The initial installation attempt failed ("-5000 Access denied error"). After repairing permissions, Photoshop Elements installed successfully. I don't recall what I installed before that which might have tweaked the permissions. However, I do eye the Cisco VPN client with some suspicion, because its installer already does some wonky things (e.g., invalid user ownership in /etc/CiscoSystemsVPNClient). -- Christopher Elkins From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Mon Nov 10 23:52:03 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Scott Stevenson" wrote: > I've never repaired disk permissions and all my apps launch fine. I've never > done it for any of my family's machines, my girlfriend's, or her family's > computers. That pretty much covers the entirety of the Mac universe, this problem doesn't exist, there's a mass hysteria afoot online regarding permissions resetting, anyone who says otherwise is a traitor. Feel better? :) d*g From mmalc_lists at mac.com Tue Nov 11 00:10:01 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C8D7CC6-141E-11D8-AF9F-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 11:52 PM, Jason Kamen wrote: > there's a mass hysteria afoot online regarding permissions resetting I wouldn't call it *mass* hysteria. "Excessive panic" seems to be primarily limited to trolls writing drivel such as the following: > Disk permissions is OS X dirty little secret. Whenever a Windows > friend of mine finds out about it, I want to crawl in a hole, It?s so > embarrassing. [...] no way did I think such a serious problem would > still be with us in Panther. God forbid when I do an iTunes update and > then run disk permissions, the log is an inch thick. How could Apple > have an update that installs new software and screws up permissions so > badly every time? > mmalc From sstevenson at mac.com Tue Nov 11 00:13:08 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 10, 2003, at 11:52 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: >> I've never repaired disk permissions and all my apps launch fine. >> I've never >> done it for any of my family's machines, my girlfriend's, or her >> family's >> computers. > > That pretty much covers the entirety of the Mac universe, this problem > doesn't exist, there's a mass hysteria afoot online regarding > permissions > resetting, anyone who says otherwise is a traitor. Feel better? :) Dan, if you ever learn how to share your viewpoints in a constructive and positive manner, I'll continue this conversation with you over a beer. My treat. Best Regards, - Scott From sstevenson at mac.com Tue Nov 11 00:24:02 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> <9476C294-13DA-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <54A9B610-13E2-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <08AB0230-13E7-11D8-AAB2-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> <3BCBC00C-1414-11D8-8FCD-000A95A05242@nhampton.net> Message-ID: <470F8BA9-1420-11D8-A149-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 11:23 PM, Nathan Ollerenshaw wrote: > I just had a look at the Centrino ad. Yup, it's blatantly inaccurate. > But, so is the Apple ad The entire value being suggested in the intel ad is that you can use the internet at mount everest with 802.11. That's not even plausible -- hard drive limits aside, where is the access point?? The thing that the ad is highlighting can't even be had. G5 speed claims are at least in the realm of plausible. But I completely understand the reason for pulling them. As much as anything, 'fastest' is a difficult thing to prove. - Scott From pelorus at mac.com Tue Nov 11 01:04:09 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> <9476C294-13DA-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <54A9B610-13E2-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <08AB0230-13E7-11D8-AAB2-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> <3BCBC00C-1414-11D8-8FCD-000A95A05242@nhampton.net> Message-ID: <5DC242BA-1425-11D8-929A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 11 Nov 2003, at 07:23, Nathan Ollerenshaw wrote: > I just had a look at the Centrino ad. Yup, it's blatantly inaccurate. > But, so is the Apple ad. Eh, but I'm just rehashing what's been said a > thousand times on slashdot and at least a hundred times on this list. > So I'll stop right there. The Apple one is guilty of hyperbole - hyperbole held up by their benchmarks which I believe they did not fake. They've been taken to task for using GCC because *no-one* uses GCC... The Intel one has three problems. Implication that Centrino will give you internet everywhere even at Everest Base Camp. False. Implication the hard drive will work at Everest Base Camp. False. Implication the computer will not freeze solid at Everest Base Camp. False. Those are lies. Plainly. I mean, even if you used a mobile phone I'd be inclined to believe there'd be zero coverage at Base Camp. M From pelorus at mac.com Tue Nov 11 01:06:15 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11 Nov 2003, at 07:52, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Scott Stevenson" wrote: >> I've never repaired disk permissions and all my apps launch fine. >> I've never >> done it for any of my family's machines, my girlfriend's, or her >> family's >> computers. > That pretty much covers the entirety of the Mac universe, this problem > doesn't exist, there's a mass hysteria afoot online regarding > permissions > resetting, anyone who says otherwise is a traitor. Feel better? :) The comparison being that when you have the problem of some apps not launching, etc on Windows, rather than fixin permissions, you have to reinstall the sodding thing. I mean, for a Mac user, you have some f***ed up sense of perspective. M -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From pelorus at mac.com Tue Nov 11 01:10:33 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Panther Mail goofs Message-ID: <961B479C-1426-11D8-929A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> I'm just about to report this as a bug but in my mailboxes, Panther seems to forget which end of the mailbox to append new messages, So I end up with some new messages with message numbers 1,2,3,4,5,...and then a gap of maybe 20 "older messages" and then the new messages continue 26,27,28 Once or twice is a pain. This is happening regularly enough to be an annoying bug. Anyone else seeing it? M -- The boy stood on the burning deck/ Whence all but he had fled/ Twit - Spike Milligan -- From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Tue Nov 11 01:20:03 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Matt" wrote: > The comparison being that when you have the problem of some apps not > launching, etc on Windows, rather than fixin permissions, you have to > reinstall the sodding thing. So, as a standard of achievement, merely being better than Windows makes it acceptable? d*g From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 11 01:21:16 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: <5AD62FDE-13DA-11D8-AF9F-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <727D8D7B-13D6-11D8-B4F5-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <5AD62FDE-13DA-11D8-AF9F-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: El 11/11/2003, a las 1:02, mmalcolm crawford escribi?: > A big nasty troll crawls out of the woodwork, puts on a chicken mask, > and starts shouting, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling." > > That's what Jes?s told me, anyway... Only cause Phil told me. j. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 11 01:22:10 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5559C228-1428-11D8-B0A1-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> > BTW, what would be the worst Mac software ever? Do you run on Mac, DanBot? j. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 11 01:26:02 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: MacInTouch (was: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer") In-Reply-To: References: <20031111010758.GC352@Dark-Age.local> <019D83CF-13E6-11D8-AFDC-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <9782D41E-1428-11D8-B0A1-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> > i wish the > editors would moderate the reports or at least flag the > claims proved spurious Not interested. It's better just to copy and paste useless crap with every moron with a keyboard than to actually critically look at the content of claims and show some restrain before posting any bit of information. But then, nobody seems to be doing that these days. j. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 11 01:26:46 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: <92548B09-13F8-11D8-9FA3-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> References: <92548B09-13F8-11D8-9FA3-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Message-ID: >> Obviously, he's never surfed . > st|studios -- you are big dumb-dumbs. Your application offers the > average user the opportunity to access search engines in about the > same amount of time as it takes to assemble an operational ink-jet > printer out of moldy zucchinis. We hope you will be content with your > perfect 11, and resist the temptation to price your application at > $300, or increase the download size to 12 gigabytes. Mbwahehehahahehe... j. From lists at drunkenbatman.com Tue Nov 11 01:44:00 2003 From: lists at drunkenbatman.com (db) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: <5C8D7CC6-141E-11D8-AF9F-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <5C8D7CC6-141E-11D8-AF9F-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031111044336362172.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 00:09:24 -0800, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > I wouldn't call it *mass* hysteria. "Excessive panic" seems to be > primarily limited to trolls writing drivel such as the following: Dear gawd do you need a hug. A nice good tight one to squeeze out whatever has crawled up your ass- i'm pretty sure it's dead (or crystalized) and it's prolly time to let it go. To a normal user, the guy who goes out and buys & mac cus he wants an ipod- permissions suck ass. Plain & simple, they just do (so do things like DLL dependencies, IRQ conflicts, etc). They just aren't something they want to deal with, and sure as hell aren't something they want to learn. To a normal user, multiple user directories suck ass, such as /Applications & ~/Applications and /Fonts & ~/Fonts. In many cases, they just aren't things they've had to deal with. It doesn't mean these things aren't necessary in a multi-user OS, and provide functionality (and security) that wasn't heretofore available to the user, at the cost of complexity. But it doesn't mean they're great from a normal user experience POV. From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Tue Nov 11 01:57:00 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031111095611.GG352@Dark-Age.local> On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 04:19:21AM -0500, Dan Gaters wrote: : : "Matt" wrote: : > : > The comparison being that when you have the problem of some apps not : > launching, etc on Windows, rather than fixin permissions, you have to : > reinstall the sodding thing. : : So, as a standard of achievement, merely being better than Windows : makes it acceptable? It's a start, JK. In an ideal world, there would be no need to run Repair Permissions. And for the most part, there is no need to run Repair Permissions. But we are not in an ideal world. JK, your question is invalid because the real world consists of more than just acceptable and unacceptable. In the exceptionally few cases where running Repair Permissions really does help, it's a rather simple and lightweight solution. In contrast, Windoze apps seem to run into more problems and may require a far more drastic solution like uninstalling and reinstalling. In the real world, this difference is quite wide and does make it OS X more acceptable than Windoze. JK, if you're going to talk about a "standard of achievement", go do something useful like volunteer at a local hospital. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Tue Nov 11 02:00:29 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: MacInTouch (was: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer") In-Reply-To: <9782D41E-1428-11D8-B0A1-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> References: <20031111010758.GC352@Dark-Age.local> <019D83CF-13E6-11D8-AFDC-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <9782D41E-1428-11D8-B0A1-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> Message-ID: <20031111095932.GH352@Dark-Age.local> On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 10:22:38AM +0100, Jes?s D?az wrote: : : >i wish the editors would moderate the reports or at least flag the : >claims proved spurious : : Not interested. It's better just to copy and paste useless crap with : every moron with a keyboard than to actually critically look at the : content of claims and show some restrain before posting any bit of : information. If there was such a thing as an Internet clipboard buffer akin to AOL's mail attachment sharing database, I would not be surprised if 99% of all Internet content is redundant copy-paste stuff. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From mmalc_lists at mac.com Tue Nov 11 02:16:02 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: <20031111044336362172.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <5C8D7CC6-141E-11D8-AF9F-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031111044336362172.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: On Nov 11, 2003, at 1:43 AM, db wrote: > On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 00:09:24 -0800, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >> I wouldn't call it *mass* hysteria. "Excessive panic" seems to be >> primarily limited to trolls writing drivel such as the following: > Dear gawd do you need a hug. A nice good tight one to squeeze out > whatever has crawled up your ass- i'm pretty sure it's dead (or > crystalized) and it's prolly time to let it go. > Thank you for your concern. > To a normal user, the guy who goes out and buys & mac cus he wants an > ipod- permissions suck ass. Plain & simple, they just do (so do things > like DLL dependencies, IRQ conflicts, etc). They just aren't something > they want to deal with, and sure as hell aren't something they want to > learn. To a normal user, multiple user directories suck ass, such as > /Applications & ~/Applications and /Fonts & ~/Fonts. In many cases, > they just aren't things they've had to deal with. > In your effort to be obnoxious, you appear to have missed the point. The "issue" is not with permissions per se (and designated folders were never even mentioned), but with permissions "going wrong" and "needing repair". Jason would have us believe that "Disk permissions is [sic] OS X dirty little secret" and that "every time [users] do a software update, they *must* repair their disk permissions". Other respondents -- to whom you have, curiously, chosen not to respond -- have also pointed out that this is, shall we say, somewhat exaggerated. I'm certainly not disagreeing that it is "unfortunate" that problems persist, however it's not something that's causing most users problems most of the time. Moreover, in contrast to issues such as DLL dependencies and IRQ conflicts, permissions problems are readily solved with a simple click of a button. > It doesn't mean these things aren't necessary in a multi-user OS, and > provide functionality (and security) that wasn't heretofore available > to the user, at the cost of complexity. But it doesn't mean they're > great from a normal user experience POV. > As noted above, this is a separate issue. mmalc From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 11 02:20:01 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: <20031111095611.GG352@Dark-Age.local> References: <20031111095611.GG352@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <97E59CCA-1430-11D8-B0A1-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> El 11/11/2003, a las 10:56, Eugene Lee escribi?: > In the exceptionally few cases where running Repair Permissions really > does help Problem is that the usual Mac dorks living in Macintouch and MacFixIt NEED to HOLD "Repair Permissions" as close as they can. You see, they NEED the voodoo. They need the Mac "consultant" crap. It was Conflict Catcher and zap the PRAM. The new game is "Repair Permissions" no matter what, see if it helps because I don't have a bloody fucking clue about what's going on. j. From pelorus at mac.com Tue Nov 11 02:56:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <97D95112-1435-11D8-929A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 11 Nov 2003, at 09:19, Dan Gaters wrote: > "Matt" wrote: > >> The comparison being that when you have the problem of some apps not >> launching, etc on Windows, rather than fixin permissions, you have to >> reinstall the sodding thing. > > So, as a standard of achievement, merely being better than Windows > makes it > acceptable? Oh wise up. You brought up the comparisons with Windows. Why does it make you crawl into a hole when the situation on Windows is NOT better. Me? I've repaired permissions twice since I installed Jaguar (and I'm now on Panther) so it's not as if it should be a regular problem. -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From lists at drunkenbatman.com Tue Nov 11 03:04:36 2003 From: lists at drunkenbatman.com (db) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: <20031111044336362172.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <5C8D7CC6-141E-11D8-AF9F-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031111044336362172.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: <20031111060258288489.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 02:15:02 -0800, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >> To a normal user, the guy who goes out and buys & mac cus he wants >> an ipod- permissions suck ass. Plain & simple, they just do (so do >> things like DLL dependencies, IRQ conflicts, etc). They just aren't >> something they want to deal with, and sure as hell aren't something >> they want to learn. To a normal user, multiple user directories suck >> ass, such as /Applications & ~/Applications and /Fonts & ~/Fonts. In >> many cases, they just aren't things they've had to deal with. >> > In your effort to be obnoxious, you appear to have missed the point. Nah, I was just trying to go to the root of it so I wouldn't be accused of trolling for no good reason. Permissions existing at all are the root of it. This ain't exactly a problem people felt they had with OS9 (sure, they had other problems, but not this one) or other OS were they weren't superuser 24/7. > The "issue" is not with permissions per se (and designated folders > were never even mentioned), but with permissions "going wrong" and > "needing repair". Yeah, I've seen that. > Jason would have us believe that "Disk permissions > is [sic] OS X dirty little secret" and that "every time [users] do a > software update, they *must* repair their disk permissions". Other I think he'd like you to believe that OSX seems to have a problem with permissions being messed up by installers/applications over time, which can then cause problems. I've seen it. Apple's own KB articles reference it... just go to support and search for "repair permissions" and behold the wonders it's supposed to fix. > respondents -- to whom you have, curiously, chosen not to respond -- Ah, well the others aren't necessarily throwing out troll* on every other thread they happen to disagree with, or perhaps I just didn't notice them as much. Just to clear that up. > have also pointed out that this is, shall we say, somewhat > exaggerated. Prolly, yeah these things can be exaggerated. At the same time, this does affect users. It's affected me & users I support, most notably with printing- and it's affected others too, otherwise things like print center repair wouldn't exist which 90% of the time are just correcting permissions. I see it more as a difficult problem to which I'm looking to Apple to provide a novel solution (ala rendezvous for TCP/IP) rather than as a percieved wrong permitted against the one true OS (aka, my precious?). > I'm certainly not disagreeing that it is "unfortunate" that problems > persist, however it's not something that's causing most users > problems most of the time. Moreover, in contrast to issues such as > DLL dependencies and IRQ conflicts, permissions problems are readily > solved with a simple click of a button. Yeah, you'd think. Although you wouldn't necessarily know it by calling Apple ("You say you can't print sir? I'm sorry, I'll walk you through a reinstall of your system") but as you said- that's another ball of wax. From Neil.Laubenthal at osd.mil Tue Nov 11 04:41:00 2003 From: Neil.Laubenthal at osd.mil (Laubenthal, Neil, CTR, OSD-NII) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Panther Install Weirdness (U) Message-ID: UNCLASSIFIED I've run into a strange problem and wondered if anybody had seen it and/or had a solution. After a few weeks running Panther successfully on my Powerbook I decided it was time go ahead and upgrade my desktop machine. Configuration: G4/AGP 500 MHz with 768 Megs RAM 40 and 30 GB IDE drives 4 and 4 GB SCSI drives attached to an Adaptec 2930 card External FW CDRW Video upgraded from Rage 128 to NVidia GEForce MX 32 meg Optical drive upgraded from DVDROM to Pioneer DVR105 Superdrive (video and super drive from OWC and are model dupliates for original Apple parts . . . in fact they appear to be actual Apple spare parts based on the static bag markings. Video (Sony MS 17)/keyboard (MacAlly)/Mouse (Kensington Optical) are connected through a Dr. Botts KVM. I normally boot form the 40 GB IDE. Used CCC to clone the drive to the 30 GB, ran Disk Utility and DiskWarrior 3 to clean up any lingering problems. Description of problem Inserted Panther CD1, double clicked Install, clicked on Restart, gave it my admin password and the machine reboots. Normal apple on gray screen with the rotating line progress indicator comes up for about 10 seconds followed by a monitor message that says SCAN RATE NOT IN RANGE and cessation of all disk activity. Stuff I've already tried. All possible monitor resolutions when starting the process. I normally run at 1024x768 but have also tried 832x624, 800x600, adn 640x480 at all possible scan rates. Moved monitor to direct connected instead of through KVM. Verified that the Jaguar disk will successfully boot to the installer, but not the Panther one. None of this had any effect on the problem. Verified that I really meet all the requirements in the Read Me for Panther. So . . . how do I get this to load? From macfiddler at iprimus.com.au Tue Nov 11 05:33:03 2003 From: macfiddler at iprimus.com.au (Erika Mackenzie) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions- a success story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: | If expecting a reply, please read my signature. | Scott Stevenson spake thus: > >On Nov 10, 2003, at 4:01 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: > >>> So what exactly happens if you don't repair the disk permissions? >> >> Some apps just don't launch/work, apparently. > >Has this ever happened to you, personally? I've never repaired disk >permissions and all my apps launch fine. I've never done it for any of I didn't even know what repairing permissions was until about 9 months ago, when my G4PowerBook (667MHz, 512MB RAM) slowed down to a crawl. Nothing that anyone on this list had to suggest helped at all. My machine was virtually unusable. Eventually, someone suggested repairing permissions. I did it. My machine trebled in speed, and has been fine ever since. I don't know why - I just mention it. It must have done something. Now I repair permissions occasionally, if I've been doing a lot of installing, but I don't make a habit of it. My machine continues to run at optimum speed. best, Erica Mackenzie QLD, AUSTRALIA n.b. I suffer from a neurological auto-immune disorder which sometimes prevents me from using my computer for extended periods of time. I will get back to you when I can, if I can. From johannes at connected.ch Tue Nov 11 05:58:01 2003 From: johannes at connected.ch (Johannes Vetsch) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <5DC242BA-1425-11D8-929A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: Am Dienstag, 11.11.03, um 09:59 Uhr (Europe/Berlin) schrieb Matt: > > On 11 Nov 2003, at 07:23, Nathan Ollerenshaw wrote: > >> I just had a look at the Centrino ad. Yup, it's blatantly inaccurate. >> But, so is the Apple ad. Eh, but I'm just rehashing what's been said >> a thousand times on slashdot and at least a hundred times on this >> list. So I'll stop right there. > > The Apple one is guilty of hyperbole - hyperbole held up by their > benchmarks which I believe they did not fake. They've been taken to > task for using GCC because *no-one* uses GCC... > > The Intel one has three problems. > Implication that Centrino will give you internet everywhere even at > Everest Base Camp. False. > Implication the hard drive will work at Everest Base Camp. False. > Implication the computer will not freeze solid at Everest Base Camp. > False. Implication the Intel heat problem in laptops is only solved at Everest Base Camp. Right? :-) johannes > > Those are lies. Plainly. > > I mean, even if you used a mobile phone I'd be inclined to believe > there'd be zero coverage at Base Camp. > > M > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From markm at tyrell.com Tue Nov 11 07:45:33 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So... is it safe to finally migrate to Panther? Any serious gotchyas? mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From markm at tyrell.com Tue Nov 11 07:50:09 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: bloody ironic advertising standards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:09 PM +0000 11/10/03, Matt wrote: >Yet Intel implies Centrino can get a wireless connection to a >mountaineer on snow-covered mountain several miles from base camp >and no-one seems to care.... Well, it seems a couple people need to complain. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mstearne at entermix.com Tue Nov 11 07:50:59 2003 From: mstearne at entermix.com (Michael Stearne) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <3FB10494.3070106@entermix.com> The Amazing Llama wrote: > > On Nov 6, 2003, at 9:09 PM, David Cake wrote: > >> At 8:52 PM -0800 6/11/03, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >> >>> On Nov 6, 2003, at 8:23 PM, David Cake wrote: >>> >>>> At 4:56 PM -0800 6/11/03, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Nov 6, 2003, at 4:19 PM, Jason Kamen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> why would Rhapsody be any different? >>>>>> >>>>>> "I had in mind a hardware-agnostic operating system. That's what >>>>>> Rhapsody >>>>>> was all about," said Amelio in a recent interview on CNET Radio. >>>>> >>>>> And to repeat: that's exactly what we have. >>>> >>>> Mac OS X only runs on Apple hardware - its Darwin thats >>>> platform agnostic. That's significantly different to the Rhapsody >>>> era plans, not just in strategy but in what we end up with. >>>> Kind of like saying "I'm agnostic, but I'd never live in a >>>> country that wasn't catholic". >>>> >>> No, not at all. The OS remains platform agnostic. >>> >> >> Except for all the bits that aren't. >> You can't really claim the OS is platform agnostic except by >> claiming that Quartz, Aqua, Cocoa etc are platform agnostic, or not >> parts of the OS. Which would score some points, but I wouldn't say it >> was actually proving yourself more correct. > > > It's Important to note that OS X is a different OS than Darwin here. > > Darwin is platform-agnostic. > > OS X is built on Darwin, using bits that (as far as is publicly known) > compile only on the PPC architecture. They "compile only on the PPC architecture" or they are only compiled on the PPC architecture? I could see how Carbon could be a problem to an extent if many parts of the OS (Finder, etc) are using direct calls to the hardware, but there is no reason and Cocoa app wouldn't compile on any platform Darwin is running on. Most things for LinuxPPC run that were desgined for Linux Intel with a recompile. Michael From markm at tyrell.com Tue Nov 11 08:01:00 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:09 PM -0500 11/10/03, Dan Gaters wrote: >BTW, what would be the worst Mac software ever? The original 4D. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From joar at joar.com Tue Nov 11 08:07:03 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Mac OS X Finder? j o a r On 2003-11-11, at 03.09, Dan Gaters wrote: > BTW, what would be the worst Mac software ever? From shawnce at mac.com Tue Nov 11 08:20:02 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 11, 2003, at 7:41 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > > So... is it safe to finally migrate to Panther? It had been safe for Panther since 10.3 on ALL of my systems. > Any serious gotchyas? The sky will fall... but only for less 2% of users. -Shawn From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Tue Nov 11 08:27:01 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <08AB0230-13E7-11D8-AAB2-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> <9476C294-13DA-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <54A9B610-13E2-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <08AB0230-13E7-11D8-AAB2-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <0272535C-1464-11D8-A17C-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 8:33 PM, Nathan Ollerenshaw wrote: > Just because we like Apple doesn't mean we should go to battle for > them. > Maybe we just have a lot of spare time. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html From rogerhoward at mac.com Tue Nov 11 08:28:03 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 11:22 PM, mark wrote: > > On 11 Nov 2003, at 8:14, Eugene Lee wrote: > >> On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 09:09:58PM -0500, Dan Gaters wrote: >> > >>> BTW, what would be the worst Mac software ever? >> >> Word 6? > > Indeed, a worthy candidate, as is any other shite that (by default) > places a full screen width toolbar at the top and/or bottom of the > screen. Like Photoshop? I agree, most apps like this should be anthropomorphized and then shot. Like Acrobat 6 (and Reader 6). But Photoshop's full-width toolbar is actually useful (being a contextual toolbar, not just a bunch of buttons redundant with the functions of menus right above, a la Windows apps from which it was inspired). -R From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Tue Nov 11 08:36:11 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34119B9A-1465-11D8-A17C-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 11, 2003, at 3:12 AM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > Dan, if you ever learn how to share your viewpoints in a constructive > and positive manner, I'll continue this conversation with you over a > beer. My treat. > Ooh, ooh! (raises hand in the air) I can share viewpoints in a constructive and positive manner! Can I have a beer too? :), -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html From mark at imap-partners.net Tue Nov 11 08:42:01 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11 Nov 2003, at 17:27, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 11:22 PM, mark wrote: > >> any other shite that (by default) places a full screen width toolbar >> at the top and/or bottom of the screen. > > Like Photoshop? > > I agree, most apps like this should be anthropomorphized and then > shot. Like Acrobat 6 (and Reader 6). And Zinio reader. Decent idea - still born. Anybody else try reading the free copy of Mac Developer Journal ? OK, it was probably bordering on a pleasant experience for J-man with his dual 23 inch cinemas, but on a dreary old 1st Gen TiPB it was pure pain. > But Photoshop's full-width toolbar is actually useful (being a > contextual toolbar, not just a bunch of buttons redundant with the > functions of menus right above, a la Windows apps from which it was > inspired). Sure, there is a lot of "functionality" in there, but it busts the whole OS X experience somehow. I don't have Photoshop 7, but Elements 2 does this "out of the box". Its a no-brainer to remove the toolbar and place the stuff you need elsewhere (in floaters or pallets). Not so easy in other toolbar monsters though. Word 6 was the granddaddy, but the concept is not dead, checkout Fasttrack Schedule 8, or the truly hideous XML Editor (I think that's what its called - a REAL Awesome Power creation). mark. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2373 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031111/05a6d52d/smime.bin From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Tue Nov 11 08:48:02 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In an attempt to be constructive... It looks like the problem is that installers are given too much power. Installers shouldn't need the ability to change permissions on files that don't belong to them. Why should an installer be able to change permissions on a file that can affect another application? And if they DO need to change permissions on those other files, something else in the design of the OS is fundamentally broken. So the problem seems to be that every installer just asks for an administrator password as a matter of course, then proceeds to do whatever it jolly well feels will make life easy for itself and the app it's installing, never mind anyone else. What's the point of having file permissions if every installer makes you relinquish those permissions before it will do anything? Maybe a first step would be for Apple to write guidelines for writing installers that don't require an administrator password. Of course, before that they would need to follow that advice themselves. Best, -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html From shawnce at mac.com Tue Nov 11 08:52:01 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <0272535C-1464-11D8-A17C-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> <9476C294-13DA-11D8-B17A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <54A9B610-13E2-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <08AB0230-13E7-11D8-AAB2-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> <0272535C-1464-11D8-A17C-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <42A21634-1467-11D8-868A-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Nov 11, 2003, at 8:27 AM, Jim Rankin wrote: > > On Nov 10, 2003, at 8:33 PM, Nathan Ollerenshaw wrote: > >> Just because we like Apple doesn't mean we should go to battle for >> them. >> > Maybe we just have a lot of spare time. Well of course! Most of us here use Macs. We get things done faster, betters and always minty fresh. -Shawn From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Tue Nov 11 08:57:02 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <1E8EC0A9-1468-11D8-A17C-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 9, 2003, at 2:05 PM, The Amazing Llama wrote: > A run of "strings" on iTunes/Win will reveal some interesting class > names... Can you elaborate? -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Nov 11 09:59:50 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Another little tidbit I read about Amelio is that he basically said that if Apple had not for all intents and purposes dropped Hypercard when they did, the World Wide Web would be based on it.. Probably a bit far-fetched, but maybe not *too* far, if Hypercard had been developed into what Runtime Revolution is today - cross-platform, fully interface-capable, fast - and if some way to make Hypertalk and Hypercard objects into small transportable units like JavaScript or SWF files. Integrating Hypercard into the Finder (think buttons, fields, and little user-applets on the desktop, inside folders, etc) and bringing Applescript (ie. system-wide Hypertalk) to the Mac about a decade early, some modest integration with Windows (for the other 95%), and adding database access (think system-level Perl possibly before Perl was even a gleam in Larry Wall's eye) - as much as that existed back when HC was created - I don't know my comp history - would have all been good starts. Likewise, with the Newton, Apple should have aggressively gone after vertical markets. The general computing public wasn't ready for something that potentially powerful and integrated yet (it still mostly isn't IMO) - that much should have been clear from the reaction to the early Newton ads, and the very ad-design itself ("Where is Newton?" "Who is Newton?" We're wondering *what is the product*. Does that tell us anything?). But vertical markets would have been (and were) a different story: A hospital wanting to completely change their patient data-entry system to one using Newtons? It happened, and then they got shafted. Wireless communications with Newtons? It happened a little with the Marco. It's rumored that Apple had a prototype airport-like card for it. DARPA wanting to do something with wireless Newtons on submarines? That also happened. Presentation systems based on the Newton? EZVGA did this, there were plans to add PowerPoint support to that, and Java integration to the virtual machine so that the Newton could natively run Java. (probably in a TInterpreter subclass, probably with full exception support, not the ugly hacks that NewtWaba has to go through to get it to run - some day it'll get rewritten as a P-class. After we figure out how to write TViews) "High-end executives", who I think you'd get more of when focusing on vertical markets versus the mass consumer markets, are more likely (I think, but this is a stereotype and I'm not a marketing student) to take chances and use cutting-edge technology, especially well-designed cutting-edge technology. Jim > "I had in mind a hardware-agnostic operating system. That's what > Rhapsody > was all about," said Amelio in a recent interview on CNET Radio. > > OS X spells the end for Rhapsody > > > d*g > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From kcall at mac.com Tue Nov 11 10:09:04 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Panther and Sawtooth (early uni-north) Message-ID: <0A4E9C2A-1472-11D8-81FB-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> I have misplaced my ATI 128 that shipped with my Sawtooth (uni north 3 ?) .. been using a GeForce2MX up and through Jaguar -- works great. With Panther, the card no longer works .. and since it's not a supported configuration by Apple, I have to figure out a solution. Can't find my ATI card, so I'm looking for a QE card that is known to work with an early version of Sawtooth. Suggestions? Thanks Kevin From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Nov 11 10:12:57 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: odd files In-Reply-To: References: <2EE9CB92-12F6-11D8-94EF-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <670D988E-1472-11D8-A160-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Okay, if they have to do with AppleLanguages, ColorSyncDevices, and CoreAudio, they why aren't they named to indicate such. This is always one of the things (in my mind) that sets Macs apart from Windows: reasonable-named files (connected with the fact that Mac has never been hampered with horribly short 8.3 filename restrictions.) This also in my mind sets apart (most of) /Library and /System from the usual UNIX folders that are invisible unless you are root or in Terminal. Jim >>> What are /Library/Preferences/cf#c5Nss and >>> /Library/Preferences/cf#yd7UZ ? >> What's in the files? > The first is a .plist with AppleLanguages, ColorSyncDevices, and > com.apple.audio.CoreAudio.DeviceSettings . The second is empty. From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Nov 11 10:15:12 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: bloody ironic advertising standards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe that's because no-one has actually *tried* to get a wireless signal on a snow-covered mountaintop several miles from base camp. Or maybe all that do just use iBooks to do so.. Jim > At 11:09 PM +0000 11/10/03, Matt wrote: >> Yet Intel implies Centrino can get a wireless connection to a >> mountaineer on snow-covered mountain several miles from base camp and >> no-one seems to care.... > Well, it seems a couple people need to complain. From markm at tyrell.com Tue Nov 11 10:16:21 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 8:19 AM -0800 11/11/03, Shawn Erickson wrote: >On Nov 11, 2003, at 7:41 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >> >>So... is it safe to finally migrate to Panther? > >It had been safe for Panther since 10.3 on ALL of my systems. > >>Any serious gotchyas? > >The sky will fall... but only for less 2% of users. I'm not a sky falling kind of guy. However, there were some reported issues... none of which I think would affect me... However, I certainly wanted to play it a bit safe with this new major release. Some people have reported a clean install to be the best way... any comments on going "upgrade" vs "clean" vs "archive"? Any suggestions and experiences would be greatly appreciated. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Nov 11 10:18:11 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 - gotchyas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5023C608-1473-11D8-A160-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> I've got 10.3.1 running now, and the only really annoying thing I notice is that the bug whereby command-key modifiers stop working in the Finder still isn't fixed. I'm wondering now if uControl could be modified to be a workaround (or MaxMenus for that matter..) Jim >> So... is it safe to finally migrate to Panther? > It had been safe for Panther since 10.3 on ALL of my systems. >> Any serious gotchyas? From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Nov 11 10:32:01 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: <019D83CF-13E6-11D8-AFDC-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <20031111071415.GE352@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <15E09A12-1475-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 11, 2003, at 12:22 AM, mark wrote: > > On 11 Nov 2003, at 8:14, Eugene Lee wrote: > >> On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 09:09:58PM -0500, Dan Gaters wrote: >> > >>> BTW, what would be the worst Mac software ever? >> >> Word 6? > > Indeed, a worthy candidate, as is any other shite that (by default) > places a full screen width toolbar at the top and/or bottom of the > screen. In terms of current software, Adobe Reader 6 might qualify. Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Nov 11 10:35:42 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Panther Mail goofs In-Reply-To: <961B479C-1426-11D8-929A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <961B479C-1426-11D8-929A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <994D9A66-1475-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 11, 2003, at 2:08 AM, Matt wrote: > > I'm just about to report this as a bug but in my mailboxes, Panther > seems to forget which end of the mailbox to append new messages, > > So I end up with some new messages with message numbers > 1,2,3,4,5,...and then a gap of maybe 20 "older messages" and then the > new messages continue 26,27,28 > > Once or twice is a pain. This is happening regularly enough to be an > annoying bug. > > Anyone else seeing it? > I saw something like that once. Do you have sorting based on # or date? I use #. I had to "fix" it by clicking date. Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Nov 11 10:39:55 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: <5C8D7CC6-141E-11D8-AF9F-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031111044336362172.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: <2D1A8511-1476-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 11, 2003, at 3:15 AM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > I'm certainly not disagreeing that it is "unfortunate" that problems > persist, however it's not something that's causing most users problems > most of the time. Moreover, in contrast to issues such as DLL > dependencies and IRQ conflicts, permissions problems are readily > solved with a simple click of a button. I only have run "Fix Permissions" once in all my years of using OS X, and it didn't fix my problem either (this was awhile ago when printing wasn't working on my iBook and it turned out to be some damaged file). I have otherwise never had to run this and I do all sorts of weird things with my computers. Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Nov 11 10:55:39 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 11, 2003, at 11:13 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > Some people have reported a clean install to be the best way... any > comments on going "upgrade" vs "clean" vs "archive"? I did an upgrade and had no problems. I don't have all sorts of 3rd party CMs, hacks, or otherwise on my machine either. Chad From Neil.Laubenthal at osd.mil Tue Nov 11 10:57:31 2003 From: Neil.Laubenthal at osd.mil (Laubenthal, Neil, CTR, OSD-NII) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) Message-ID: UNCLASSIFIED There are a couple of gotcha's . . . the FW800 bug . . .which may also affect FW400. Supposedly 10.3.1 fixes this. filevault has corrupted H drives when allowed to reclaim empty space . . . supposedly 10.3.1 fixes this too. journaling has caused some problems . . . best for now to turn it off until it gets fixed. GeForce4MX video cards don't work correctly in sawtooth motherboard G4/AGP models . . . the workaround is install with the old card, replace a .kext with an older version, and reinstall the card. OWC says it's an Apple problem and they're waiting on Apple to issue a fix. I personally believe that an Archive and Install is the best way to go as long as you check all your login items, pref panes and the like for current versions . . . a fair number of them (Unsanity stuff, DefaultFolder, etc) needed fixes to work right. Other than that . . . this is a pretty no-brainer install. My next machine to upgrade is my desktop file/web server . . . I may do an upgrade on it instead of archive and install just to see how it works; but most likely not. -----Original Message----- From: Mark F. Murphy [mailto:markm@tyrell.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 1:14 PM To: macosx-talk@omnigroup.com Subject: Re: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU At 8:19 AM -0800 11/11/03, Shawn Erickson wrote: >On Nov 11, 2003, at 7:41 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >> >>So... is it safe to finally migrate to Panther? > >It had been safe for Panther since 10.3 on ALL of my systems. > >>Any serious gotchyas? > >The sky will fall... but only for less 2% of users. I'm not a sky falling kind of guy. However, there were some reported issues... none of which I think would affect me... However, I certainly wanted to play it a bit safe with this new major release. Some people have reported a clean install to be the best way... any comments on going "upgrade" vs "clean" vs "archive"? Any suggestions and experiences would be greatly appreciated. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From zbir at urbanape.com Tue Nov 11 11:13:40 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <816809B2-1479-11D8-9FA3-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Nov 11, 2003, at 1:49 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > On Nov 11, 2003, at 11:13 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >> Some people have reported a clean install to be the best way... any >> comments on going "upgrade" vs "clean" vs "archive"? > > I did an upgrade and had no problems. I don't have all sorts of 3rd > party CMs, hacks, or otherwise on my machine either. Archive installs on both my powerbook and iMac, and things seem dandy. Zac From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Nov 11 11:31:05 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Safari annoyance Message-ID: <3098A4DD-147D-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Here is something that annoys me greatly with Safari. I am guessing at the cause and used the "Report Bugs to Apple" tab to send this in. I thought I'd post it here as well to see if anyone else thinks this is an annoyance and if so to encourage you to file a bug on it... I often have 2 or 3 Safari windows open and each one has a handful or more of tabs. I move around to various pages and like to go back to them or update them (news sites, my bank, etc) regularly. Safari starts to slow to a crawl and become very unresponsive or less responsive when I have a bunch of tabbed pages in my Safari windows. But not always -- it depends on what the actual pages are that are in the non-exposed tabs. It appears that pages that have animated GIFs and other CPU wasting things continue to have the animations processed and performed even when they are tabbed closed. I have sometimes been able to get Safari to start responding well by just closing one or two tabs that have a lot of animations going in them. So it seems the hidden animations and other busy body things are the cause of the slowdown. I told Apple that they should stop animating GIFs when they are on non-exposed tabs. Chad From ehrich at mninter.net Tue Nov 11 11:41:34 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Safari annoyance In-Reply-To: <3098A4DD-147D-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <3098A4DD-147D-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: >I told Apple that they should stop animating GIFs when they are on >non-exposed tabs. You should have stopped after 'GIFs'. They should at least give us an option to suppress them. -- Bill Ehrich From mark at imap-partners.net Tue Nov 11 11:57:15 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: shitty toolbars Message-ID: We were (or at least I was) on the topic of awful toobars and such like. Well, it seems there is a _very_ new kid on the block. Take a look at this honker: http://www.conceptdraw.com/products/img/ScreenShots/project/1.gif If the rumours that our hosts are planning something in this direction are true, concerns about the competition are probably unnecessary. mark. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2373 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031111/c156156b/smime.bin From wjcheeseman at earthlink.net Tue Nov 11 12:19:03 2003 From: wjcheeseman at earthlink.net (Bill Cheeseman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2003-11-11 1:13 PM, Mark F. Murphy at markm@tyrell.com wrote: > Some people have reported a clean install to be the best way... any > comments on going "upgrade" vs "clean" vs "archive"? > > Any suggestions and experiences would be greatly appreciated. For the first time in a long while, I did a normal upgrade install on two machines, from Jaguar 10.2.8. Both went just fine. Except that on one of them I had to fix permissions (using the new Disk Utility) to regain normal administrator access to the /Library folder, and on one of them Help Viewer didn't work until I located and removed the defective Help file (left over from some application I installed a long time ago and never used). Both problems were probably the result of leftover issues from before. -- Bill Cheeseman - wjcheeseman@earthlink.net Quechee Software, Quechee, Vermont, USA http://www.quecheesoftware.com The AppleScript Sourcebook - http://www.AppleScriptSourcebook.com Vermont Recipes - http://www.stepwise.com/Articles/VermontRecipes From joar at joar.com Tue Nov 11 12:27:08 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:22 2005 Subject: Safari annoyance In-Reply-To: References: <3098A4DD-147D-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <5584708C-1485-11D8-9E11-000393D4AB70@joar.com> ...and they should definitively stop when the user is switched out... I find that I often have to switch over to my wife's account to quit applications. Word, Excel and PowerPoint always take 10% CPU each doing absolutely nothing (Dan...). Safari eats up 20 - 30 % animating banner ads, etc. How about a system preference to reduce the priority of all processes for switched out users? j o a r On 2003-11-11, at 20.39, William Ehrich wrote: >> I told Apple that they should stop animating GIFs when they are on >> non-exposed tabs. > > You should have stopped after 'GIFs'. > > They should at least give us an option to suppress them. From andrina at corefa.com Tue Nov 11 12:31:03 2003 From: andrina at corefa.com (Andrina Kelly) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Disk Permissions is a funny little thing - while it appears to go off and change things which are apparently "bad" permissions, this isn't always the case - essentially the repair of permissions, as I understand it, takes your machine back to a point in time where it has a record of permissions - in other words, when you install software on your machine it knows what the permissions are right there and then - when you repair permissions it takes you back to that state. Your permissions have changed in the meantime because you have used your machine and permissions have changed in the process. I personally like to only verify my permissions, and then have a look at the output - if there's something in there that you *know* isn't correct then go ahead and change that by whatever manner you prefer, however, if you are frequently running the repair of permissions to dig yourself out of a hole there may be something deeper causing your issues that the repair is just masking. Corrupt preferences is the first thing that comes to mind. So, long story made short, the repair of permissions isn't necessarily a repair, but more of a going back to a known state as I've had it explained to me. Hope this sheds some light, Cheers, Andrina On Nov 10, 2003, at 6:25 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: > Is this right? > > Panther: Mac OS X 10.3 (Part 13) > > > Michael Retondo > >> Raul Regalado wrote: "What exactly is the deal with disk permissions, >> and why >> do they need repairing so often? If repairing disk permissions is so >> important >> (and most third-party tech support documents I've seen lately always >> include >> it as a step in standard troubleshooting), then why isn't it >> something that is >> done automatically after a software installation or a crash?" > > I couldn?t agree more with Raul. Disk permissions is OS X dirty little > secret. Whenever a Windows friend of mine finds out about it, I want to > crawl in a hole, It?s so embarrassing. > > I didn?t mind it two years ago, thought it was just growing pains for > new > OS. But no way did I think such a serious problem would still be with > us in > Panther. God forbid when I do an iTunes update and then run disk > permissions, the log is an inch thick. How could Apple have an update > that > installs new software and screws up permissions so badly every time? > > Apple has got to answer this for us once and for all. ...How Steve > Jobs puts > up with this I have no idea. I can?t believe he thinks my Mom and Dad > should > have to know anything about repairing disk permissions. I hate it when > I > have to tell people like my Mom and Dad or (worse yet) Windows > converts I > turned, that every time they do a software update, they must repair > their > disk permissions. They turn to me and say, 'but I thought that?s why I > bought a Mac so I wouldn?t have to deal with this?' > > d*g > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > ........................................................... andrina kelly email: andrina@corefa.com c.o.r.e. feature animation http://www.coredp.com ........................................................... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031111/ac7f32ab/PGP.bin From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Tue Nov 11 12:57:02 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: M$ says Linux slow to fix bugs Message-ID: <20031111205613.GO352@Dark-Age.local> http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/11/11/HNmsassault_1.html Microsoft prepares security assault on Linux Company will criticize Linux for taking too long to fix bugs By Kieren McCarthy, Techworld.com November 11, 2003 Microsoft Corp. is preparing a major PR assault over Windows' perceived security failings in which it will criticize Linux for taking too long to fix bugs, we have learned. (waiting in baited breath for Dan "JK" Gators to comment on whether Redhat's untimely bug fixes define a new level of acceptability) -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From larkost at softhome.net Tue Nov 11 13:13:07 2003 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <923E95D2-148B-11D8-8B66-003065D8C728@softhome.net> 'Repair Permissions' simply has a small list of what owner/permission should be in certain folders, and attempts to re-set them to these values. It does not take snapshots at all, it just knows certain things. The problems that this most often solves are ones where one of the spool directories for the printing system either goes away or gets set un-writable. In either case the printing system chokes on things (usually without any useable error messages). This is the "magic" of "Repair Permissions"... pay no attention to the man behind the screen! Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net On Nov 11, 2003, at 3:30 PM, Andrina Kelly wrote: > Disk Permissions is a funny little thing - while it appears to go off > and change things which are apparently "bad" permissions, this isn't > always the case - essentially the repair of permissions, as I > understand it, takes your machine back to a point in time where it has > a record of permissions - in other words, when you install software on > your machine it knows what the permissions are right there and then - > when you repair permissions it takes you back to that state. Your > permissions have changed in the meantime because you have used your > machine and permissions have changed in the process. From erik at barzeski.com Tue Nov 11 13:48:06 2003 From: erik at barzeski.com (Erik J. Barzeski) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: <200311112002.hABK2AhW016709@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: On 11/11/03 3:02 PM, "macosx-talk-request@omnigroup.com" wrote: > Maybe make it one of the overnight maintenance tasks the OS does? Have > it done automatically like Panther's defrag mechanism? It's already one of mine. As is my psync script to mirror one drive to another. I'm anal and I figure "what the heck, can't hurt?" -- Kindest regards, Erik J. Barzeski Life is like a box of chocolates - Sometimes you run across a nut. ################################################################### Email: erik@(anything below) AIM: iacas, iacas@mac.com http://nslog.com http://cocoadevcentral.com http://barzeski.com/ http://freshlysqueezedsoftware.com ################################################################### From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 11 13:56:27 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: sensible Panther install strategy (was: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU) Message-ID: at 20031111, 10:13 -0800, they whom i call Mark F. Murphy wrote: >Any suggestions and experiences would be greatly appreciated. i haven't done it yet due to a project in progress, however i have been closely tracking developments and have planned a fairly thorough process which will include some major housecleaning.. i'm doing this for several reasons: 1) my environment is very detailed, though not outlandish, nor "retro" 2) i want to make a good record for reference and to help others, 3) i don't want to do a direct upgrade due to a strange non-fatal error message at the login panel that i've never been able to diagnose, and a few hiccups people have reported with upgrade installs, 4) even though i'm being very detailed, i expect archive and install will still save me a lot of effort so here is an outline of my process: pre-install, i'll catalog the Panther status of all crucial tools, update those tools that need it, note workarounds for some items (e.g. VPC 5), catalog crucial configuration info, DiskWarrior my boot volume, repair permissions, make two complete boot volume backups with Carbon Copy Cloner, verify they are bootable, and disconnect one backup volume from my machine then i will archive & install, plus 10.3.1.. i'll probably omit some language and printer support post-upgrade i'll clone the fresh result (minus the archived data) to a DVD for future use.. then i'll do basic reconfiguration, verify that my crucial tools work (expecting to have to re-enter some software keys, though most i think i'll be able to restore from a clone), reset each account's password to get the new shadow feature, convert my tcsh environment to bash (which i've never used), double-check various configurations and run for a while later for those things that haven't already come up, i'll verify status of all secondary software & enhancements, reestablish /usr/local and fink configs (from scratch, since some things like GhostScript are now built-in), and see if install supporting software for some little-used peripherals (Wacom Graphire and cups driver for Epson Stylus Photo 1200) comments welcome -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 11 13:58:56 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: <582B9B00-13F5-11D8-929A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <582B9B00-13F5-11D8-929A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031111, 03:15 +0000, they whom i call Matt wrote: >On 11 Nov 2003, at 02:09, Dan Gaters wrote: >>worst Mac software ever? >[...] >Software by 3rd Party: Woo. Outlook Express/Entourage sticking to major apps that i've actually had to use, i vote for Visual FoxPro 3.0/Mac -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 11 13:59:47 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: <20031111060258288489.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <5C8D7CC6-141E-11D8-AF9F-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031111044336362172.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> <20031111060258288489.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: at 20031111, 06:02 -0500, they whom i call db wrote: >Nah, I was just trying to go to the root of it so I wouldn't be >accused of trolling for no good reason. Permissions existing at all >are the root of it. This ain't exactly a problem people felt they >had with OS9 (sure, they had other problems, but not this one) or >other OS were they weren't superuser 24/7. of course the problem didn't exist -- i don't have trouble finding fuel for my bicycle either.. on legacy Mac OS, though, consider the converse problem -- there was plenty of trouble keeping shared machines properly configured.. one user could spoil it for everyone else.. Multiple Users was a half-baked solution, which came late and was widely ignored.. in settings from Kinkos to university labs, this was a significant problem which required special tools and workarounds to manage wholistically viewed, the balance has tipped for the moment slightly against a subset of single-users, but which will undoubtedly resolve over time (mainly as installer-makers wise up), and for which the current workarounds are rather simple compared to the workarounds for the legacy problems -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 11 14:00:51 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: <20031111044336362172.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> References: <5C8D7CC6-141E-11D8-AF9F-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031111044336362172.GyazMail.lists@drunkenbatman.com> Message-ID: at 20031111, 04:43 -0500, they whom i call db wrote: >To a normal user, the guy who goes out and buys & mac cus he wants >an ipod- permissions suck ass. Plain & simple, they just do (so do >things like DLL dependencies, IRQ conflicts, etc). They just aren't >something they want to deal with, and sure as hell aren't something >they want to learn. To a normal user, multiple user directories suck >ass, such as /Applications & ~/Applications and /Fonts & ~/Fonts. In >many cases, they just aren't things they've had to deal with. just ignore them.. for the most part, except for the bad installers produced by (mostly?) third-parties, there's no need for the normal user to fret about any of these issues most people who get far enough to understand that there are multiple folders, but not far enough to understand the domain hierarchy, is just playing out learned helplessness -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 11 14:02:21 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: odd files In-Reply-To: <670D988E-1472-11D8-A160-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> References: <2EE9CB92-12F6-11D8-94EF-000A95935598@kreme.com> <670D988E-1472-11D8-A160-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: at 20031111, 13:10 -0500, they whom i call Jim Witte wrote: >Okay, if they have to do with AppleLanguages, ColorSyncDevices, and >CoreAudio, they why aren't they named to indicate such. [...] > >>>>What are /Library/Preferences/cf#c5Nss and /Library/Preferences/cf#yd7UZ ? is it perhaps a wrongly-transliterated bit of Unicode in that name? -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 11 14:04:48 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: MacInTouch (was: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer") In-Reply-To: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> Message-ID: at 20031111, 21:49 +0100, they whom i call Michel Coste wrote: >Has someone been thinking about the fact that Ric Ford of Macintouch >is never writing a simple line! (Except to ask money of course!)? he does post a few of his own observations (about 25% ill-founded, in my experience) and sometimes an editorial comment.. aside from the reports, the real quality in MacInTouch has always been the well-honed sense of what is newsworthy, plus some minor but interesting topics get very good coverage.. i've been reading MacInTouch for a long time, and i always go back to it when i need to scale back my news volume -- steve harley From larkost at softhome.net Tue Nov 11 14:11:04 2003 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Even better... OmniDiskSweep touches each file to see how big it is... I was worried about all the disk activity that happened when I started it up last... until I ran across the notice of this new behavior... Karl Kuehn larkot@softhome.net On Nov 11, 2003, at 4:46 PM, Erik J. Barzeski wrote: >> Maybe make it one of the overnight maintenance tasks the OS does? Have >> it done automatically like Panther's defrag mechanism? > > It's already one of mine. As is my psync script to mirror one drive to > another. From mic at micmac.com Tue Nov 11 14:13:09 2003 From: mic at micmac.com (Michel Coste) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <42A21634-1467-11D8-868A-000A95A6C778@mac.com> Message-ID: And we don't waste our spare time repairing virus and worms damages? On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 05:51 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: >>> >> Maybe we just have a lot of spare time. > > Well of course! > > Most of us here use Macs. We get things done faster, betters and > always minty fresh. > mc michel coste mic@micmac.com http://www.micmac.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031111/7535d4f7/PGP.bin From ehrich at mninter.net Tue Nov 11 14:53:01 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: odd files In-Reply-To: References: <2EE9CB92-12F6-11D8-94EF-000A95935598@kreme.com> <670D988E-1472-11D8-A160-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: >at 20031111, 13:10 -0500, they whom i call Jim Witte wrote: >>Okay, if they have to do with AppleLanguages, ColorSyncDevices, >>and CoreAudio, why aren't they named to indicate such. [...] >> >>>>>What are /Library/Preferences/cf#c5Nss and /Library/Preferences/cf#yd7UZ ? > >is it perhaps a wrongly-transliterated bit of Unicode in that name? using Terminal.app: -rw------- 1 root admin 2809 30 Oct 14:02 /Library/Preferences/cf#c5Nss -rw------- 1 root admin 0 30 Oct 14:12 /Library/Preferences/cf#yd7UZ I'm wondering whether it's an installer glitch which I should report as a bug. I couldn't find AppleLanguages, ColorSyncDevices, or CoreAudio in any other prefs files, so I hesitate to delete these. Do you have them somewhere? -- Bill Ehrich From mic at micmac.com Tue Nov 11 14:54:12 2003 From: mic at micmac.com (Michel Coste) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You mean we haven't two morons but only one? =;) On Friday, November 7, 2003, at 10:42 AM, Jes?s D?az wrote: > > El 07/11/2003, a las 8:45, Lukreme escribi?: > >> On 06 Nov 2003, at 16:40, Eugene Lee wrote: >>> (wondering if Dan Gaters == Jason Kamen) >> >> That's been proved with sufficient evidence to "convict OJ." > > I am amazed that people still have doubts. > > j. > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > mc michel coste mic@micmac.com http://www.micmac.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031111/31465b0e/PGP.bin From mic at micmac.com Tue Nov 11 15:03:08 2003 From: mic at micmac.com (Michel Coste) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <50DD757A-11B2-11D8-A56A-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> Message-ID: <34B48774-149B-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> I'd say it's been a bright strategy. =;) On Saturday, November 8, 2003, at 07:10 AM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > Yes - and it should be obvious that Classic is/was the Achilles > heel... and Apple has cleverly healed the wound. > mc michel coste mic@micmac.com http://www.micmac.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031111/c7b30a3e/PGP.bin From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 11 15:16:01 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: MacInTouch (was: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer") In-Reply-To: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 11, 2003, at 9:49 PM, Michel Coste wrote: > Has someone been thinking about the fact that Ric Ford of Macintouch > is never writing a simple line! (Except to ask money of course!)? He's a dinosaur. Like his site. Soon the site will be gone. So will be MacFixIt and the rest of the clueless Mac dork sites. Good riddance. j. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 11 15:23:02 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > You mean we haven't two morons but only one? =;) Well, yeah, but the way I look at it, we have a dork that is worth two morons. I miss Xah. [1] j. [1] No! I didn't say that!!! Roger Howard, you bad chinchilla dominatrix adorer ouija abuser! Get out of my body at once!!! [2] [2] Boy, that sounds rather disturbing, but less than "I miss Xah". From fabienlroy at mac.com Tue Nov 11 15:25:04 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <23C5D33C-149E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Did an "Archive and Install" the only problem was that WOBuilder was trying to load a framework from the Previous system. I did a compressed tar ball of the "Previous System" directory and "et voil?!" everything back to normal. So yes a clean install will avert this behavior. Fabien On Nov 11, 2003, at 10:13 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 8:19 AM -0800 11/11/03, Shawn Erickson wrote: >> On Nov 11, 2003, at 7:41 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: >> >>> >>> So... is it safe to finally migrate to Panther? >> >> It had been safe for Panther since 10.3 on ALL of my systems. >> >>> Any serious gotchyas? >> >> The sky will fall... but only for less 2% of users. > > I'm not a sky falling kind of guy. > > However, there were some reported issues... none of which I think > would affect me... > > However, I certainly wanted to play it a bit safe with this new major > release. > > Some people have reported a clean install to be the best way... any > comments on going "upgrade" vs "clean" vs "archive"? > > Any suggestions and experiences would be greatly appreciated. > > mark > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development > > Tyrell Software Corp > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From sstevenson at mac.com Tue Nov 11 15:51:03 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: odd files In-Reply-To: References: <2EE9CB92-12F6-11D8-94EF-000A95935598@kreme.com> <670D988E-1472-11D8-A160-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: On Nov 11, 2003, at 2:52 PM, William Ehrich wrote: > using Terminal.app: > -rw------- 1 root admin 2809 30 Oct 14:02 > /Library/Preferences/cf#c5Nss > -rw------- 1 root admin 0 30 Oct 14:12 > /Library/Preferences/cf#yd7UZ > > I'm wondering whether it's an installer glitch which I should report > as a bug. > > I couldn't find AppleLanguages, ColorSyncDevices, or CoreAudio in any > other prefs files, so I hesitate to delete these. Do you have them > somewhere? It looks very similar to the content of /Library/Preferences/.GlobalPreferences.plist. A wild guess would be it is some sort of installer or cache data that didn't get cleaned up. However, since the permissions are very restrictive, you're probably better off just letting them sit there. While they may be a bit of an eyesore, I don't believe they're doing any harm. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From charlesd at newsguy.com Tue Nov 11 15:53:11 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 21:09 -0500 10/11/2003, Dan Gaters wrote: >"Matt" wrote: > >> One punk on Macintouch is not worth a spit. I mean COME ON. Scrape the >> bottom of the barrel, Dan. > >So one "designer's" opinion of FB as "adequate" is quote-worthy, but when >someone else offers a negative opinion that makes him a worthless punk? Oh, >OK, I get it. :-) Not that *what* he says matters at all. > >BTW, what would be the worst Mac software ever? Toss-up between QuirkXstupid 3.2, Mickeysoft Weird 3, Mickeysoft Weird 6, Lotus Jazz, Lotus Notes, AppleWorks, and BookWorm. Mickeysoft Weird 6 gets the Super Fugly Award. QuirkXstupid 3.2 gets the I Want That Programmer's Head On A Stake Award. AppleWorks 4 through 6 gets the Really Bad Software From Apple Award. BookWorm gets the More Bombs Than A Fully-Loaded B-52 Award. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From charlesd at newsguy.com Tue Nov 11 16:05:32 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: <582B9B00-13F5-11D8-929A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: At 14:19 -0700 11/11/2003, steve harley wrote: >at 20031111, 03:15 +0000, they whom i call Matt wrote: >>On 11 Nov 2003, at 02:09, Dan Gaters wrote: >>>worst Mac software ever? >>[...] >>Software by 3rd Party: Woo. Outlook Express/Entourage > >sticking to major apps that i've actually had to use, >i vote for Visual FoxPro 3.0/Mac Ooh! I'd forgotten that one! It was almost bad enough to take away Weird 6's Fugly Award! -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 11 16:48:05 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: <923E95D2-148B-11D8-8B66-003065D8C728@softhome.net> References: <923E95D2-148B-11D8-8B66-003065D8C728@softhome.net> Message-ID: it occurs to me one of the reasons some may need to repair permissions is that they have logged in as root, usually as a way to get around real or imagined problems, and then something done during that session changed permissions -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 11 16:50:05 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 - gotchyas In-Reply-To: <5023C608-1473-11D8-A160-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> References: <5023C608-1473-11D8-A160-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: at 20031111, 13:17 -0500, they whom i call Jim Witte wrote: > I've got 10.3.1 running now, and the only really annoying thing I >notice is that the bug whereby command-key modifiers stop working in >the Finder still isn't fixed. I'm wondering now if uControl could >be modified to be a workaround (or MaxMenus for that matter..) try Keyboard Maestro or iKey.. the former has a free "Lite" mode for a limited number of shortcuts, however i've only confirmed the latter is Panther-compatible .. for some features you may need to attach a simple AppleScript to the keyboard shortcut -- steve harley From nathan at valuecommerce.ne.jp Tue Nov 11 16:57:46 2003 From: nathan at valuecommerce.ne.jp (Nathan Ollerenshaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1591FC6E-14AB-11D8-AC94-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> On Nov 12, 2003, at 3:13 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > Some people have reported a clean install to be the best way... any > comments on going "upgrade" vs "clean" vs "archive"? I've mostly done an archive & install. Never had any problems. I've been running 10.3 since two weeks before it came out, and no problems. It's a 17" Powerbook 1Ghz. Sometimes I'll do a clean install with my system backed up onto a external firewire drive, then just copy the prefs over and the data that I want to keep. its amazing how much cruft one accumulates over a year... Sometimes apps need their prefs trashed, after an upgrade, but now I think of it, I can't remember which ones. Maybe it was just all in my mind ... Nathan. -- Nathan Ollerenshaw - Unix Systems Engineer ValueCommerce - http://www.valuecommerce.ne.jp/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2381 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031111/25f5c315/smime.bin From pelorus at mac.com Tue Nov 11 17:32:04 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Panther Mail goofs In-Reply-To: <994D9A66-1475-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <961B479C-1426-11D8-929A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <994D9A66-1475-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On 11 Nov 2003, at 18:33, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > On Nov 11, 2003, at 2:08 AM, Matt wrote: >> So I end up with some new messages with message numbers >> 1,2,3,4,5,...and then a gap of maybe 20 "older messages" and then the >> new messages continue 26,27,28 >> Once or twice is a pain. This is happening regularly enough to be an >> annoying bug. >> Anyone else seeing it? > > I saw something like that once. Do you have sorting based on # or > date? I use #. I had to "fix" it by clicking date. #. I prefer # Shit. M From jonathan at betweenboxes.com Tue Nov 11 17:37:01 2003 From: jonathan at betweenboxes.com (Jonathan Heron) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: RAID questions Message-ID: I know this has come up elsewhere in the past (and probably on this list before I signed up... apologies for bringing up an old topic) What type of software RAID can be set up in Panther? Can you boot from a software RAID or do you need another HD to boot. [God I hate Apple's dearth of documentation.] thanks in advance, Jonathan Heron PS. and thanks to those who responded to my queries for information on VPNs and shared address books. From nadeama2 at videotron.ca Tue Nov 11 18:25:03 2003 From: nadeama2 at videotron.ca (Martin Nadeau) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: MacInTouch (was: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer") In-Reply-To: References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> Message-ID: <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> On Nov 11, 2003, at 18:15, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > > On Nov 11, 2003, at 9:49 PM, Michel Coste wrote: > >> Has someone been thinking about the fact that Ric Ford of Macintouch >> is never writing a simple line! (Except to ask money of course!)? > > He's a dinosaur. Like his site. > > Soon the site will be gone. So will be MacFixIt and the rest of the > clueless Mac dork sites. > > Good riddance. And we'll be left with Apple support to help us with our problems. Yay! -- Martin Nadeau From thomasv at mac.com Tue Nov 11 19:30:23 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: MacInTouch In-Reply-To: <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <766C406F-14C0-11D8-B87B-003065C4548E@mac.com> People have griped about Ric Ford/Macintouch for years. I remember in 1995 hearing some guy at a conference call him a pre-maddonna. After he did his redesign (1999ish I think) and screwed up his site. His site ceased to be the end all to be all that it once was. A lot of the people I know stopped going to it every morning. But, he still serves a helpfull purpose compiling all those reports. I think we also have to consider that it is incredibly cheap to produce a internet publication. So Ric Ford and Macintouch will be around for many years to come I imagine. The guy i always admired was the guy who ran Rephraduce, the old mac web hosting out fit. I heard he was raking in 35K a month on a one man operation. I heard he made it after getting his button on Macintouch. Cheers, Tom On Nov 11, 2003, at 6:24 PM, Martin Nadeau wrote: > On Nov 11, 2003, at 18:15, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > >> >> On Nov 11, 2003, at 9:49 PM, Michel Coste wrote: >> >>> Has someone been thinking about the fact that Ric Ford of Macintouch >>> is never writing a simple line! (Except to ask money of course!)? >> >> He's a dinosaur. Like his site. >> >> Soon the site will be gone. So will be MacFixIt and the rest of the >> clueless Mac dork sites. >> >> Good riddance. > > And we'll be left with Apple support to help us with our problems. Yay! From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Nov 11 20:45:01 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: What's with the iPod card reader? In-Reply-To: <834CFF12-0071-11D8-90A1-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <834CFF12-0071-11D8-90A1-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <167588D6-14CB-11D8-985D-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> >> So why couldn't Apple just go with the USB cable? Most digital >> cameras use >> USB ... (admittedly mostly USB 1.x now, but I assume USB 2 is >> compatible > Probably because the reader is simpler. You'd have to add a whole new > software interface into the ipod to allow it to mount Mass Storage > class USB devices onto the iPod. The reader takes care of that for > you and just sticks the files up there. Pretty cool if you ask me. > And there may be cameras out there that don't conform to the USB mass > storage class but do use cards that have compatible files systems on > them (?). Why doesn't some company just make a "reader" that has a USB plug (for the camera) and a dock connector (for the iPod), and does the conversion from USB Mass Storage to FW Mass Storage (or whatever protocol the iPod uses) in firmware (and perhaps a small cache memory)? Along the same lines, I've been wondering if they do a *totally* hardware solution for computer-to-computer USB transfer. I know there's that cable that says "just install a small piece of software on both computers, and.." Hell, why can't they just put a small controller and memory chip in the middle of the cable that will look like a standard Mass Storage device to both ends, and use that? It might be a little tricky to work out the locking issues involved with the two computers seeing the same "disk", but it couldn't be that hard - at worst just use two virtual "disks" (one for each computer) and then have a little firmware program to transfer bits from one to the other. Although I don't know how that solution would work in terms of efficiency. Jim From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Nov 11 21:00:12 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: odd files In-Reply-To: References: <2EE9CB92-12F6-11D8-94EF-000A95935598@kreme.com> <670D988E-1472-11D8-A160-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: <9A6B9474-14C6-11D8-BDB1-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> >> -rw------- 1 root admin 2809 30 Oct 14:02 >> /Library/Preferences/cf#c5Nss >> -rw------- 1 root admin 0 30 Oct 14:12 >> /Library/Preferences/cf#yd7UZ The first time I saw files like this, I thought they were just temporary files that would disappear when I restarted. Jim From nathan at valuecommerce.ne.jp Tue Nov 11 21:33:27 2003 From: nathan at valuecommerce.ne.jp (Nathan Ollerenshaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: odd files In-Reply-To: References: <2EE9CB92-12F6-11D8-94EF-000A95935598@kreme.com> <670D988E-1472-11D8-A160-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: <64EE1390-14D1-11D8-8D24-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> On Nov 12, 2003, at 8:50 AM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > It looks very similar to the content of > /Library/Preferences/.GlobalPreferences.plist. A wild guess would be > it is some sort of installer or cache data that didn't get cleaned up. > However, since the permissions are very restrictive, you're probably > better off just letting them sit there. While they may be a bit of an > eyesore, I don't believe they're doing any harm. I have them too: -rw------- 1 root admin 3368 30 Sep 20:48 cf#OWZNs -rw------- 1 root admin 2809 30 Sep 20:44 cf#acBWj Maybe the HFS+ equivalent of orphaned inodes? Under most unices, there is a Lost+Found directory at the root of each mounted volume. No such thing in OSX, so it has to put the orphaned files somewhere. The fact that they have restrictive (600) permissions is definitely suggestive. Nathan. -- Nathan Ollerenshaw - Unix Systems Engineer ValueCommerce - http://www.valuecommerce.ne.jp/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2381 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031111/10bef582/smime.bin From jmetz at communiweb.net Tue Nov 11 21:39:58 2003 From: jmetz at communiweb.net (J Michel Metz) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 - gotchyas In-Reply-To: References: <5023C608-1473-11D8-A160-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: <2B3CC7FD-14D2-11D8-A002-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> > try Keyboard Maestro or iKey.. the former has a free "Lite" > mode for a limited number of shortcuts, however i've only > confirmed the latter is Panther-compatible .. Keyboard Maestro is completely Panther-compatible. J From dave at difference.com.au Tue Nov 11 21:50:22 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer" In-Reply-To: References: <582B9B00-13F5-11D8-929A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: At 7:03 PM -0500 11/11/03, Charles Dyer wrote: >At 14:19 -0700 11/11/2003, steve harley wrote: >>at 20031111, 03:15 +0000, they whom i call Matt wrote: >>>On 11 Nov 2003, at 02:09, Dan Gaters wrote: >>>>worst Mac software ever? >>>[...] >>>Software by 3rd Party: Woo. Outlook Express/Entourage >> >>sticking to major apps that i've actually had to use, >>i vote for Visual FoxPro 3.0/Mac This gets a hate vote from me too. Staggeringly unstable. People who actually had to deal with this seemed to develop loads of weird voodoo solutions that allegedly helped - none of which seemed to get it anything like stable. Cheers David From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 11 22:49:02 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: MacInTouch (was: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer") In-Reply-To: <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <2A7B8BB0-14DC-11D8-8E26-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> On Nov 12, 2003, at 3:24 AM, Martin Nadeau wrote: > And we'll be left with Apple support to help us with our problems. Yay! Oh, so you rely on MacOutOfTouch and MacWhineAboutIt to actually "help" _you_ with your problems? Heh. So funny. j. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 11 22:52:23 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: MacInTouch In-Reply-To: <766C406F-14C0-11D8-B87B-003065C4548E@mac.com> References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <766C406F-14C0-11D8-B87B-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: > But, he still serves a helpfull purpose compiling all those reports. Yeah, I wonder what the helpful purpose of compiling a big ball of crap and FUD, in a linear fashion, no less, is. > I think we also have to consider that it is incredibly cheap to > produce a internet publication. So Ric Ford and Macintouch will be > around for many years to come I imagine. Sure. He and his five readers will be happy many years down the road. Down being the key word here. j. From tallama at mac.com Tue Nov 11 22:58:01 2003 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <1E8EC0A9-1468-11D8-A17C-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E8EC0A9-1468-11D8-A17C-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <6F8D3218-14DD-11D8-A5B4-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> From the Blog of one of the Coding Monkeys: http://0x2a.no-ip.org/mt/archives/000046.html On Nov 11, 2003, at 8:57 AM, Jim Rankin wrote: > On Nov 9, 2003, at 2:05 PM, The Amazing Llama wrote: >> A run of "strings" on iTunes/Win will reveal some interesting class >> names... > Can you elaborate? Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031111/eb2d160e/smime.bin From tallama at mac.com Tue Nov 11 23:03:17 2003 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: odd files In-Reply-To: References: <2EE9CB92-12F6-11D8-94EF-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <2A446707-14DE-11D8-A5B4-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> Wild guess: In TextEdit, open a file you have permission to read but can't write from. Edit the file. Hit save. It asks if you want to override. Hit 'Override' (maybe 'Overwrite'). It gives an error. However, it saves the work you did in a file with a name quite like what you've got. At least, it has in all other versions of OSX when I've edited /.hidden and some other files. On Nov 10, 2003, at 7:29 AM, William Ehrich wrote: >>> What are /Library/Preferences/cf#c5Nss and >>> /Library/Preferences/cf#yd7UZ ? >> >> What's in the files? > > The first is a .plist with AppleLanguages, ColorSyncDevices, and > com.apple.audio.CoreAudio.DeviceSettings . The second is empty. Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031111/59dae18f/smime.bin From thomasv at mac.com Tue Nov 11 23:22:08 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Whats the top Mac web site? (was: Macintouch) In-Reply-To: References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <766C406F-14C0-11D8-B87B-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: So besides Jesus's home page, What is the top mac web site these days? Cheers, Tom From gerard_iglesias at mac.com Tue Nov 11 23:26:13 2003 From: gerard_iglesias at mac.com (Gerard Iglesias) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: <1591FC6E-14AB-11D8-AC94-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> References: <1591FC6E-14AB-11D8-AC94-000A95A07AB8@valuecommerce.ne.jp> Message-ID: <70139776-14E1-11D8-A325-000A958F167A@mac.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.tiff Type: image/tiff Size: 1510 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031111/2547074f/image.tiff -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From nadeama2 at videotron.ca Tue Nov 11 23:42:26 2003 From: nadeama2 at videotron.ca (Martin Nadeau) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: MacInTouch (was: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer") In-Reply-To: <2A7B8BB0-14DC-11D8-8E26-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <2A7B8BB0-14DC-11D8-8E26-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> Message-ID: <6792B188-14E3-11D8-85C3-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> On Nov 12, 2003, at 01:48, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > On Nov 12, 2003, at 3:24 AM, Martin Nadeau wrote: > >> And we'll be left with Apple support to help us with our problems. >> Yay! > > Oh, so you rely on MacOutOfTouch and MacWhineAboutIt to actually > "help" _you_ with your problems? > > Heh. So funny. I'd really like to know where your animosity towards those sites is coming from? If you don't like them, don't read them, that's all. Just take a pill and relax. I'm also not all that fond of the long lists of comments (some informative, most not) on Macintouch, but I just mostly don't read that part of the site. There's often some interesting news on the main page however. For what it's worth, I've also used MacFixIt to help me solve a few problems (although mostly in the OS 9 days), or at least to keep informed on possible quirks. The site serves a purpose. In any case, it has certainly helped me more than the idiots at Apple tech support (although I did speak to *one* knowledgeable and helpful product manager in my early days with 10.0). -- Martin Nadeau From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Wed Nov 12 01:20:06 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: MacInTouch (was: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer") In-Reply-To: <6792B188-14E3-11D8-85C3-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <2A7B8BB0-14DC-11D8-8E26-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <6792B188-14E3-11D8-85C3-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <47A476B2-14F1-11D8-96D9-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> > I'd really like to know where your animosity towards those sites is > coming from? They spread FUD. They post plain lies many times. They don't care about correcting them. And, since they are almost bankrupt, they both try to grab eyeballs with sensationalism. They do a disservice to the community. They are the playground of Mac "consultants" who don't have a fucking clue about OS X. There's where it comes from. > If you don't like them, don't read them, that's all. Just take a pill > and relax. I don't like them.I don't read them (although I have to suffer the occasional sensationalistic headline in MacSurfer). I am not a pill popper and I am relaxed. It's just _my_ opinion. You have yours. Don't see much problem here. > I'm also not all that fond of the long lists of comments (some > informative, most not) on Macintouch, but I just mostly don't read > that part of the site. There's often some interesting news on the main > page however. I prefer the often annoying sensory overload of MacSurfer's headlines. Or just wait for the usual nutso to flag any URL here or in nutters or in iChat. > For what it's worth, I've also used MacFixIt to help me solve a few > problems (although mostly in the OS 9 days), or at least to keep > informed on possible quirks. The site serves a purpose. If I want someone to point to a fault in OS X, I can get the same information from this list or nutters. Here I can get a solution (or several) in minutes. There I can not. Often, what I see in MacSurfer's echo headlines are references to this or that Apple Tech Note. Not much a source of information in any of the sites. > In any case, it has certainly helped me more than the idiots at Apple > tech support (although I did speak to *one* knowledgeable and helpful > product manager in my early days with 10.0). Phone Apple Tech Support are not idiots. They do their work: deal with idiots. You or me may not be one of the idiots, but the vast majority of people ARE idiots when it comes to problems with their Macs (even if they could have a Ph. D.). So assuming that the person at the other side of the phone doesn't have a clue is the only course of action for first front-line support service, like AppleCare. We run one here in our company, and you have to deal with this fact all the time. And you have to go through the same idiotic steps all the time, unless you already have went over them with that specific client. I have suffered AppleCare phone support more than once and you just can't tell them "look, I know what I am doing, ok. Avoid the silly troubleshooting steps" because even when I know that could be true, the other person doesn't and has strict orders to keep on with a scheme. Sure, I would love to have someone who really know about deep stuff all the time, but that's just not going to happen unless I have a real problem. Web Apple Tech Support is fine for me, although I would like a better search engine. j. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Wed Nov 12 01:22:01 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Whats the top Mac web site? (was: Macintouch) In-Reply-To: References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <766C406F-14C0-11D8-B87B-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <6BB32D6A-14F1-11D8-96D9-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> > So besides Jesus's home page, You mean Scoreland? > What is the top mac web site these days? Yeah, prolly Scoreland. j. From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 12 01:25:03 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: MacInTouch (was: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer") In-Reply-To: <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: On 12 Nov 2003, at 02:24, Martin Nadeau wrote: > On Nov 11, 2003, at 18:15, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: >> Good riddance. > > And we'll be left with Apple support to help us with our problems. Yay! That would be a shame because Macintouch and MacFixit have been the source of so many a fix for real problems in the last couple of years. "Uhhh...remove these kexts from /System/Library/Ker..." M -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Wed Nov 12 01:32:01 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: MacInTouch (was: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer") In-Reply-To: References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: > That would be a shame because Macintouch and MacFixit have been the > source of so many a fix for real problems in the last couple of years. > > "Uhhh...remove these kexts from /System/Library/Ker..." Or more like "To avoid this problem with Mac OS X, just don't install it. Do as we do, avoid it like the plague. It's NRFPT". It was a... well, "interesting approach" to problem solving in OS X. Really effective too. j. From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 12 01:33:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: MacInTouch (was: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer") In-Reply-To: <6792B188-14E3-11D8-85C3-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <2A7B8BB0-14DC-11D8-8E26-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <6792B188-14E3-11D8-85C3-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: On 12 Nov 2003, at 07:39, Martin Nadeau wrote: > I'd really like to know where your animosity towards those sites is > coming from? I find them to be a parasite more than a portal. Macintouch compiles reports which are no more than extended text files. They have these 10 page long "reader reports" where people are literally free to say anything they want and be counted as part of the actual users. Their accounts, some of which are plainly lies, half-truths and delusions (like, uh, suggesting that the Toolbar in Finder is only available for "actions" now) are taken verbatim by the hordes of lusers out there and then syndicated across half a dozen other sites by other parasites like MacSurfer. Where's the editorial control? With this combination, any story that happens once to someone becomes internationally syndicated within hours, looking to all intents and purposes, like an epidemic. I find the rest of their coverage to be actually GOOD. It's just those sodding unmoderated reader reports. And MacFixit. Well, I don't like his attitude. He's not the Big Man on Campus for the Mac and now actually crows about problems rather than having the right attitude - which is an ernest desire to see problems fixed. Sensationalism has overtaken because he wants desperately to regain his crown (and Apple didn't give up on Mac OS X the way he wanted them to) and it sure beats actually working for a living. M From dave.pl at ping.at Wed Nov 12 04:04:02 2003 From: dave.pl at ping.at (Dietmar Planitzer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 11, 2003, at 7:13 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 8:19 AM -0800 11/11/03, Shawn Erickson wrote: >> On Nov 11, 2003, at 7:41 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: >> >>> >>> So... is it safe to finally migrate to Panther? >> >> It had been safe for Panther since 10.3 on ALL of my systems. >> >>> Any serious gotchyas? >> >> The sky will fall... but only for less 2% of users. > > I'm not a sky falling kind of guy. > > However, there were some reported issues... none of which I think > would affect me... > > However, I certainly wanted to play it a bit safe with this new major > release. > > Some people have reported a clean install to be the best way... any > comments on going "upgrade" vs "clean" vs "archive"? > > Any suggestions and experiences would be greatly appreciated. > There are definitely things that you should be aware of before you lightly start to play with the new cat. Otherwise you may get hurt... In my case, I installed Panther on my private machine and had the pleasure to find out that: 1) Internet access via PPTP no longer worked. The Internet Connect.app just sits there telling me its negotiating with my ISP but never comes to any conclusion. I finally had to write a little shell script which passes the correct options to pppd in order to get my Internet connection working again. Judging from various reports on German and Austrian Internet sites, this seems to be a quite common problem on this side of the big pond. 2) Because a single bug feels quite alone, my HP Photosmart printer decided that Panther is a bit of a too dangerous cat and so stop working. HP says that new drivers will be available in a few weeks... 3) Leave two bugs alone in a warm and romantic night and you end up with a third: My MicroTek ScanMaker scanner got feared of Panther and, too, stopped working. Again MicroTek says new drivers will come in a few weeks. On the positive side, the Wacom tablet now works more reliable than it used to under Jaguar. In Jaguar it could happen that the tablet was not recognized when I booted the system and so didn't work. I had to reboot in order to get it to work. So far, this problem has not appeared once under Panther. Regards, Dietmar Planitzer From dave.pl at ping.at Wed Nov 12 04:08:13 2003 From: dave.pl at ping.at (Dietmar Planitzer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <6F8D3218-14DD-11D8-A5B4-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E8EC0A9-1468-11D8-A17C-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <6F8D3218-14DD-11D8-A5B4-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> Message-ID: <098C433A-1509-11D8-A9D2-003065D41252@ping.at> Well, the symbols starting with NS are not class names; they are just Info.plist keys. Further, that iTunes takes advantage of CoreFoundation is to be expected. iTunes for Windows probably just takes advantage of the fact that QT for Windows, more or less, comes with large chuncks of the MacOS Toolbox aka Carbon. Regards, Dietmar Planitzer On Nov 12, 2003, at 7:57 AM, The Amazing Llama wrote: > From the Blog of one of the Coding Monkeys: > http://0x2a.no-ip.org/mt/archives/000046.html > > On Nov 11, 2003, at 8:57 AM, Jim Rankin wrote: >> On Nov 9, 2003, at 2:05 PM, The Amazing Llama wrote: >>> A run of "strings" on iTunes/Win will reveal some interesting class >>> names... >> Can you elaborate? > > Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac > dot com> > "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure > out what just happened." From larkost at softhome.net Wed Nov 12 05:26:02 2003 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Whats the top Mac web site? (was: Macintouch) In-Reply-To: References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <766C406F-14C0-11D8-B87B-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: I used to be a fan of both Macintouch and MacFixit, but rarely read them anymore. MacFixit is now sometimes a good source of troubleshooting information. But as other have said, when MacOS X came out the sites creator was out of his depth, and has never made the transition to MacOS X. Thus the tone on the site is very negative, I think that it is the source of many of the overblown stories in the Windows-centric press (cNet). On Macintouche's side, there is not enough value there. If someone who knew what they were doing would summarizes (as in report on) what their readers send in (reader reports), then they could have some value. I can get better information in the same format on the usual forums (forums.macnn.com forums.appleinsider.com forums.macosxhints.com). As to sites that I frequent: http://www.macosxhints.com - well moderated how-to's and tips http://www.macosxguru.net - still small, but becoming the above for developers http://www.macnn.com - news in a better format than macintouch http://www.appleturns.com - a few stories with interesting spin http://www.CazyAppleRumors.com - "news" with enough spin to get you going in the wrong direction I also monitor most of the rumors sites, but that is more for fun than any serious information. Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net On Nov 12, 2003, at 2:21 AM, Thomas Vincent wrote: > What is the top mac web site these days? From soft at bdanube.com Wed Nov 12 07:31:01 2003 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 - gotchyas In-Reply-To: <2B3CC7FD-14D2-11D8-A002-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> References: <5023C608-1473-11D8-A160-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> <2B3CC7FD-14D2-11D8-A002-000393DB99C2@communiweb.net> Message-ID: <26A52EC5-1525-11D8-A305-000A27984144@bdanube.com> On Nov 11, 2003, at 11:36 PM, J Michel Metz wrote: >> try Keyboard Maestro or iKey.. the former has a free "Lite" >> mode for a limited number of shortcuts, however i've only >> confirmed the latter is Panther-compatible .. > > Keyboard Maestro is completely Panther-compatible. I've been getting lots of crashes setting up macros in Keyboard Maestro. I'll choose an AppleScript to execute and assign a keyboard trigger, but when I click "Save" KM drops off the screen, and when I relaunch it my new macro is nowhere to be found. If I'm persistent I can eventually get it to "take", but sometimes only after three or four tries. Michael Kamprath (the author) was saying something on the KM mailing list about updating it for Panther right when Panther came out, but I haven't heard anything since then, and the info on the Web site is a year old. Michael -- I believe there's something out there watching over us. Unfortunately, it's the government. - Woody Allen From shawnce at mac.com Wed Nov 12 08:35:01 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <6F8D3218-14DD-11D8-A5B4-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E8EC0A9-1468-11D8-A17C-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <6F8D3218-14DD-11D8-A5B4-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 11, 2003, at 10:57 PM, The Amazing Llama wrote: > From the Blog of one of the Coding Monkeys: > http://0x2a.no-ip.org/mt/archives/000046.html > > On Nov 11, 2003, at 8:57 AM, Jim Rankin wrote: >> On Nov 9, 2003, at 2:05 PM, The Amazing Llama wrote: >>> A run of "strings" on iTunes/Win will reveal some interesting class >>> names... >> Can you elaborate? >> I see no Cocoa class names. The use of CF (directly and indirectly) makes sense on Mac OS X. Nothing earth shaking to be seen here or I am missing your original point... -Shawn From mstearne at entermix.com Wed Nov 12 08:43:15 2003 From: mstearne at entermix.com (Michael Stearne) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <4634B519-10BD-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <32F37B8E-10DE-11D8-BC0C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E8EC0A9-1468-11D8-A17C-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <6F8D3218-14DD-11D8-A5B4-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> Message-ID: <380F6551-152F-11D8-965A-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> On Nov 12, 2003, at 11:33 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > On Nov 11, 2003, at 10:57 PM, The Amazing Llama wrote: > >> From the Blog of one of the Coding Monkeys: >> http://0x2a.no-ip.org/mt/archives/000046.html >> >> On Nov 11, 2003, at 8:57 AM, Jim Rankin wrote: >>> On Nov 9, 2003, at 2:05 PM, The Amazing Llama wrote: >>>> A run of "strings" on iTunes/Win will reveal some interesting class >>>> names... >>> Can you elaborate? >>> > > I see no Cocoa class names. The use of CF (directly and indirectly) > makes sense on Mac OS X. > > Nothing earth shaking to be seen here or I am missing your original > point... > The original point was that most of Carbon works on Intel already. But this was stated by Jobs: "It's perfectly technically feasible to port Panther to any processor," Michael -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 915 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031112/4dc95e80/attachment.bin From kcall at mac.com Wed Nov 12 09:11:43 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: USB number keypad Message-ID: <00509126-1533-11D8-B669-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> I am looking for a USB number keypad that works with Panther. Any suggestions? thanks Kevin From jer at mia.net Wed Nov 12 09:30:14 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Apple Mail and attachments questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a customer that is using Mail.App. Aside from the fact that it seems to be leaving copies of the message on the mailserver, our customer says that when it retrieves email, it gets the text only, and not the attachment. Is this a `feature' in the Mail.App? Or could the mail program be retrieving the attachment, but `hiding' it, like Outlook Express does? Or, is it possible that the attachment is there and in front of him, but maybe in a place that you might not expect to look? Since I use Mail.App and have not experienced this, I have no idea what is going on. Thanx. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Wed Nov 12 09:59:07 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: <9DFFC4EC-13C2-11D8-BCFF-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <9DFFC4EC-13C2-11D8-BCFF-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 10, 2003, at 4:12 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > Xcode also has worksheets -- in other words, the MPW functionality I > believe you're looking for. > What's a worksheet? -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 332 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031112/b7342ee2/attachment.bin From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Nov 12 10:33:03 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Panther and Sawtooth (early uni-north) In-Reply-To: <0A4E9C2A-1472-11D8-81FB-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> References: <0A4E9C2A-1472-11D8-81FB-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031111, 10:08 -0800, they whom i call Kevin Callahan wrote: >With Panther, the card no longer works .. and since it's not a >supported configuration by Apple, I have to figure out a solution. >Can't find my ATI card, so I'm looking for a QE card that is known >to work with an early version of Sawtooth. before you buy another card, consider jury-rigging with an old copy of the appropriate kext.. of course even if that works, it may not survive a few more system revisions, but at least you'd have more time for research, and you might luck out and find Apple fixes the problem -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Nov 12 10:34:16 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: odd files In-Reply-To: <2A446707-14DE-11D8-A5B4-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> References: <2EE9CB92-12F6-11D8-94EF-000A95935598@kreme.com> <2A446707-14DE-11D8-A5B4-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031111, 23:02 -0800, they whom i call The Amazing Llama wrote: >Wild guess: > >In TextEdit, open a file you have permission to read but can't write from. >Edit the file. Hit save. >It asks if you want to override. Hit 'Override' (maybe 'Overwrite'). >It gives an error. However, it saves the work you did in a file with >a name quite like what you've got. this seems to tie in with observations that for some people Panther seems to have changed the permissions of /Library -- steve harley From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 12 11:05:24 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Apple Mail and attachments questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18AF2141-1543-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 12, 2003, at 10:28 AM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > > I have a customer that is using Mail.App. Aside from the fact that it > seems to be leaving copies of the message on the mailserver, our > customer says that when it retrieves email, it gets the text only, and > not the attachment. Is this using POP or IMAP? From omnilists at nhampton.net Wed Nov 12 11:14:43 2003 From: omnilists at nhampton.net (Nathan Hampton) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Apple Mail and attachments questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <243034A6-1540-11D8-8C29-000A95A05242@nhampton.net> On 12 Nov 2003, at 11:28 AM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > > I have a customer that is using Mail.App. Aside from the fact that it > seems to be leaving copies of the message on the mailserver, The settings for this can be adjusted in the 'Advanced' section of the Account preferences. > our customer says that when it retrieves email, it gets the text > only, and not the attachment. > > Is this a `feature' in the Mail.App? Or could the mail program be > retrieving the attachment, but `hiding' it, like Outlook Express does? > Or, is it possible that the attachment is there and in front of him, > but maybe in a place that you might not expect to look? I've never seen this either, but if the attachment was forwarded from someone else, it may not have come through. From what I can tell, Mail doesn't automatically include attachments with forwards. In Panther, an attachment may appear in the header section at the top of the viewed message. Hope this helps. --NCH From mstearne at entermix.com Wed Nov 12 11:58:18 2003 From: mstearne at entermix.com (Michael Stearne) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: FTP/SMB in Finder Message-ID: <77EE51EC-154A-11D8-965A-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> 2 Questions: 1. Why is FTP read-only when mounting through the Finder even when using proper credentials? 2. Why does the Finder still seem to not be able to correctly remember SMB (and FTP) username, password and domain information. This stuff has been around since 10.1 and to see its not perfect in 10.3 stinks. Michael From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 12 12:15:13 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Panther "tooltips" weirdness with Mail and Safari Message-ID: <9D8211D8-154C-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> This has been happening since I upgraded to Panther and is very annoying. (I have not yet installed the 10.3.1 update yet as I have some stuff running that means I cannot reboot quite yet). This has happened in both Mail.app and Safari. Basically, moving the mouse pointer around will sometime (often) trigger a "tooltip"[1] frenzy where the tooltips keep flashing, and often cycle through several different tooltips, for as long as 10 seconds, blocking event processing. So while this happens, I cannot click on anything but when it stops all the clicks catch up. Anyone else see this behavior? best Chad [1] tooltip = the little info box that pops up by a UI element to tell you what it is or means when you mouse over it From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 12 12:24:35 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 12, 2003, at 7:06 AM, Dietmar Planitzer wrote: > > On Nov 11, 2003, at 7:13 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >> > There are definitely things that you should be aware of before you > lightly start to play with the new cat. Otherwise you may get hurt... > > In my case, I installed Panther on my private machine and had the > pleasure to find out that: > > 1) Internet access via PPTP no longer worked. The Internet Connect.app > just sits there telling me its negotiating with my ISP but never comes > to any conclusion. I finally had to write a little shell script which > passes the correct options to pppd in order to get my Internet > connection working again. Judging from various reports on German and > Austrian Internet sites, this seems to be a quite common problem on > this side of the big pond. > PPTP? PPTP is a vpn protocol, you are vpn'ing into your ISP? Do you mean PPPOE? > 2) Because a single bug feels quite alone, my HP Photosmart printer > decided that Panther is a bit of a too dangerous cat and so stop > working. HP says that new drivers will be available in a few weeks... > > 3) Leave two bugs alone in a warm and romantic night and you end up > with a third: My MicroTek ScanMaker scanner got feared of Panther and, > too, stopped working. Again MicroTek says new drivers will come in a > few weeks. > This leads to a larger question, when a third party hardware stops working with an OS and the hardware vendor doesn't have drivers out, when they had months to get them ready, is that a bug or the hardware vendor being slow? > On the positive side, the Wacom tablet now works more reliable than it > used to under Jaguar. In Jaguar it could happen that the tablet was > not recognized when I booted the system and so didn't work. I had to > reboot in order to get it to work. So far, this problem has not > appeared once under Panther. > That is good, I have been considering getting a tablet. Good to know it works better under panther. --Larry From shawnce at mac.com Wed Nov 12 12:28:43 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:23 2005 Subject: Panther "tooltips" weirdness with Mail and Safari In-Reply-To: <9D8211D8-154C-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <9D8211D8-154C-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <8733478C-154E-11D8-A704-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Nov 12, 2003, at 12:13 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > This has been happening since I upgraded to Panther and is very > annoying. (I have not yet installed the 10.3.1 update yet as I have > some stuff running that means I cannot reboot quite yet). > > This has happened in both Mail.app and Safari. Basically, moving the > mouse pointer around will sometime (often) trigger a "tooltip"[1] > frenzy where the tooltips keep flashing, and often cycle through > several different tooltips, for as long as 10 seconds, blocking event > processing. So while this happens, I cannot click on anything but > when it stops all the clicks catch up. > > Anyone else see this behavior? Cannot reproduce it here... never seen the issue with 10.3 or 10.3.1. -Shawn From erik at barzeski.com Wed Nov 12 12:31:10 2003 From: erik at barzeski.com (Erik J. Barzeski) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Accents in the Finder In-Reply-To: <200311122003.hACK3OhW025849@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: I've posted a picture here: http://nslog.com/archives/2003/11/12/accents_in_the_finder.php It's helpful in figuring out what's going on, so have a look. The text of that page is: > I'm hoping that someone can explain this to me: why can't the Finder handle > accents properly? It can - as you can see when I'm renaming the file - but not > persistently. Heck, the Terminal shows the "?" properly in "Expos?" - why > can't the Finder? > > Hrmph. Any ideas? From johannes at connected.ch Wed Nov 12 12:32:01 2003 From: johannes at connected.ch (Johannes Vetsch) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Apple Mail and attachments questions In-Reply-To: <18AF2141-1543-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: It happens with jpgs when under "View/View/show as file" (sorry something like that, in german it's "Darstellung/Darstellung/Reine Datei) is activated. Set this to "Original Content" and you see the picture or the file icon as set in the before mentioned Advanced Settings. Hope that helps regards johannes PS: It only works on received mails Am Mittwoch, 12.11.03, um 20:04 Uhr (Europe/Berlin) schrieb Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.: > > On Nov 12, 2003, at 10:28 AM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > >> >> I have a customer that is using Mail.App. Aside from the fact that >> it seems to be leaving copies of the message on the mailserver, our >> customer says that when it retrieves email, it gets the text only, >> and not the attachment. > > Is this using POP or IMAP? > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From ian at SKYLIST.net Wed Nov 12 12:33:55 2003 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Panther "tooltips" weirdness with Mail and Safari In-Reply-To: <9D8211D8-154C-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <9D8211D8-154C-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On Nov 12, 2003, at 2:13 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > This has been happening since I upgraded to Panther and is very > annoying. (I have not yet installed the 10.3.1 update yet as I have > some stuff running that means I cannot reboot quite yet). > > This has happened in both Mail.app and Safari. Basically, moving the > mouse pointer around will sometime (often) trigger a "tooltip"[1] > frenzy where the tooltips keep flashing, and often cycle through > several different tooltips, for as long as 10 seconds, blocking event > processing. So while this happens, I cannot click on anything but > when it stops all the clicks catch up. I have seen this as well, but it never happens for more than a couple of seconds for me. Ian From dinse at niehs.nih.gov Wed Nov 12 12:36:32 2003 From: dinse at niehs.nih.gov (Gregg Dinse) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Panther "tooltips" weirdness with Mail and Safari In-Reply-To: <9D8211D8-154C-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <9D8211D8-154C-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <327C64C6-154F-11D8-BCAF-000A95AFA24A@niehs.nih.gov> Hi Chad, I have not seen that exact problem, but I have noticed some mouse weirdness. I have a Logitech Cordless Mouseman Optical mouse, which worked fine under Jaguar. It has been acting like the batteries are low under Panther. I replaced the batteries (which were not very old) and yet I'm still having some problems. The main thing is that often I have to click several times before the click registers. Gregg On Nov 12, 2003, at 3:13 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > This has been happening since I upgraded to Panther and is very > annoying. (I have not yet installed the 10.3.1 update yet as I have > some stuff running that means I cannot reboot quite yet). > > This has happened in both Mail.app and Safari. Basically, moving the > mouse pointer around will sometime (often) trigger a "tooltip"[1] > frenzy where the tooltips keep flashing, and often cycle through > several different tooltips, for as long as 10 seconds, blocking event > processing. So while this happens, I cannot click on anything but > when it stops all the clicks catch up. > > Anyone else see this behavior? > > best > Chad > > [1] tooltip = the little info box that pops up by a UI element to tell > you what it is or means when you mouse over it From mark at imap-partners.net Wed Nov 12 12:42:18 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <83E0D08E-1550-11D8-90D6-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> On 12 Nov 2003, at 21:21, Lawrence Sica wrote: > PPTP? PPTP is a vpn protocol, you are vpn'ing into your ISP? Do you > mean PPPOE? No, I imagine he (Dietmar) probably meant PPTP. Some ADSL providers (here in Europe) do PPTP rather than PPPOE. Over your way too, I believe. mark. From ehrich at mninter.net Wed Nov 12 13:09:13 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: slow Virtual PC Message-ID: VPC ran well with OSX 10.3 and seemed even a bit snappier with 10.3.1, but then it wouldn't start, claiming a damaged disk image. I rebuilt it, but now it is slow. Not slightly slow but perhaps 1000x. It will probably take a week to get through its (Windows) diskcheck. The same saved disk image (on a common data partion) works normally when I run VPC in 10.2.6, so that's not the problem. When it's trying to run, top shows that VPC and kernel_tas (PID 0) are each taking about 50% of processor time. Memory use is about twice as much as with 10.2.6 . Thrashing? But memory use is still smaller than the available 512MB. And it ran well until now. I vaguely remember that other people reported something similar, and a fix, but can't remember where. Didn't find anything with Google. Any help would be very welcome. -- Bill Ehrich TiBook 800 MHz 512 MB ram 40 GB disk OSX 10.3.1 and 10.2.6 From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 12 13:13:29 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Universal Access? Message-ID: <7F1E2482-154A-11D8-9316-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Am I missing something? Doesn't OSX DO all of this stuff? http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2003/ tc20031112_9773_tc056.htm Don't be afraid to take big steps. You can't cross a chasm in two small jumps. From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Nov 12 13:16:23 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Whats the top Mac web site? (was: Macintouch) In-Reply-To: References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <766C406F-14C0-11D8-B87B-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031112, 08:25 -0500, they whom i call Karl Kuehn wrote: > http://www.macosxhints.com - well moderated how-to's and tips very good information within its domain.. the comments to the hints tend to be the real meat of things, and veer toward accuracy more rapidly than MacInTouch Reader Reports.. could use some high-level categorization > http://www.macosxguru.net - still small, but becoming the above >for developers developer sites would be a whole nuther subject, but it looks interesting.. also tends to be good, and often relevant beyond pure developer info.. related RSS feed: also note , and for those who lower themselves, > http://www.macnn.com - news in a better format than macintouch imo, not well-filtered, and articles are often just press releases with typos added or misunderstandings applied.. tends to be more prompt with news though, and the RSS feed makes finding the good bits easier (both MacNN's and MacInTouch's RSS feeds need embedded links, MacNN's also need longer summaries, MacInTouch's need to link to separate pages for each article).. the reader comments at MacNN have even lower signal/noise than those at MacInTouch, at least in the responses to articles -- i haven't looked much at the forums i would add: usually good quality news, but infrequent and non-comprehensive.. a good source for those who wish to limit their intake.. see also tidbits-talk for a moderated mailing list with a flavor some people like more comprehensive than MacUpdate, and (again with the right filter) one can get a reading from the "ratings" about the risks of early adoption of specific app releases.. more usable to me now that i have the dot mac free subscription -- now i just check once or twice a week and if one wishes to gorge on info: would be better with an RSS feed always interesting but only sporadically relevant i rarely visit rumors sites, though i will go hunting if i want a screen shot of an upcoming release -- steve harley From jared at 23x.net Wed Nov 12 13:35:10 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: USB number keypad In-Reply-To: <00509126-1533-11D8-B669-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> References: <00509126-1533-11D8-B669-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> Message-ID: On 12 Nov 2003, at 18:09, Kevin Callahan wrote: > I am looking for a USB number keypad that works with Panther. Any > suggestions? 123456879+0000*/- Yup, this one works ... It's a Generic one I picked up for Unreal Tournament[1]. It's a generic one. http://gallery.23x.net/index.php?page=1-1&path=G5&img=numberpad.png [1] Takes less space than a full keyboard. It works wonders. -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "By Grabthar's SPORK, I will avenge you." From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Wed Nov 12 13:46:02 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Universal Access? In-Reply-To: <7F1E2482-154A-11D8-9316-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <7F1E2482-154A-11D8-9316-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <812EEE91-1559-11D8-9066-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> On Nov 12, 2003, at 19:57, Matt wrote: > Am I missing something? Doesn't OSX DO all of this stuff? > > http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2003/ > tc20031112_9773_tc056.htm Well, they acknowledge that Mac OS X does zooming and speaks text. But the outSPOKEN product / screen reader is described as: "not only convert text and images to speech output but can also handle the different command structures and quirks of hundreds of commonly used programs, from e-mailers to spreadsheets" So according to the article now Apple has a "major flaw" because a 3rd party dropped a product. Stefano From guy.english at sympatico.ca Wed Nov 12 13:50:50 2003 From: guy.english at sympatico.ca (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Universal Access? In-Reply-To: <7F1E2482-154A-11D8-9316-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <7F1E2482-154A-11D8-9316-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 12, 2003, at 2:57 PM, Matt wrote: > Am I missing something? Doesn't OSX DO all of this stuff? > http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2003/ > tc20031112_9773_tc056.htm I've been playing with the Accessibility framework recently and it's pretty cool. A few quirks I've noticed though: a) WebKit doesn't expose it's content. That means Safari, OmniWeb, Mail, Help, and anything else you can think of that uses WebKit is currently opaque to screen readers. iTunes is also uncooperative. From a quick test I just did Word X also doesn't play nice. In fact the only apps I'd bet on working are (surprise!) Cocoa apps that don't use WebKit to display their content. b) The article talks about screen readers describing pictures. There is no mechanism I've noticed to get images from one app into your screen reader app. There may well be one I just haven't worked it out yet, though. c) Speed. This is probably particular to the app I'm working on but it takes a long time to just grab the text contents of all the apps. Not like milliseconds long but real seconds long, with beach balls and everything. You could probably hack something up APE style to inject your screen readers hooks into all the apps on the system - but it's a lot of engineering and tons of trouble since you're working behind the backs of the OS guys and all the app developers. It's not a solution I'd feel comfortable charging $2000 for. Then again they probably do exactly that on the old Mac OS ... Interestingly the BusinessWeek guy is recommending Apple build their own screen reader then Open Source it. I was pretty amazed at seeing a Business Week guy making a case for open sourcing something. I guess Apples success with OS X (especially Server) and Safari is proving that Open Source can be leveraged. Later, Guy From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Nov 12 13:52:54 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: References: <9DFFC4EC-13C2-11D8-BCFF-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031112, 12:59 -0500, they whom i call Jim Rankin wrote: >On Nov 10, 2003, at 4:12 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > >>Xcode also has worksheets -- in other words, the MPW functionality >>I believe you're looking for. >> >What's a worksheet? a merging of text editor and shell such that instead of having commands entered and acted upon one line at a time (the "readline" concept mentioned earlier in the thread), one can compose one or more commands in an editor environment, using all its tools, then issue them to the shell as desired.. the command output then becomes content in the editor environment too -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Nov 12 13:56:17 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: MacInTouch (was: Font book "adequate" for "longtime graphic designer") In-Reply-To: <47A476B2-14F1-11D8-96D9-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> References: <80E7E55A-1488-11D8-BBC8-000502478B8F@micmac.com> <5C58D9CA-14B7-11D8-BBFD-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <2A7B8BB0-14DC-11D8-8E26-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <6792B188-14E3-11D8-85C3-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <47A476B2-14F1-11D8-96D9-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> Message-ID: at 20031112, 10:19 +0100, they whom i call Jes?s D?az wrote: >[Martin wrote:] >>I'd really like to know where your animosity >>towards those sites is coming from? > >They spread FUD. They post plain lies many >times. They don't care about correcting them. >And, since they are almost bankrupt, they both >try to grab eyeballs with sensationalism. in what way is MacInTouch itself sensationalist? the MacInTouch news pages are very restrained -- among the best.. now and then i have seen bias creep in, but it has been so infrequent that it really stood out otoh, the reader reports, are just that -- a semi-moderated forum where misinformation is frequent, and some posters clearly seek attention (sound familiar?).. it's plainly stated where this information comes from, and anyone who blames MacInTouch directly for the "lies" is distorting the problem -- FUD in itself with an appropriate filter, and an understanding of the time delay, the reports are one of the best places i know to gain a very good sense of the scope of breaking issues, for instance with the OS releases.. unfortunately, there's a functional defect: a direct response to wrong info is impossible -- one has to submit it and see it appear a day or two later, non-adjacent to the original claim -- i rarely bother.. it's a shame, because with some structural changes and a real distillation process, the reader reports could be much more effective no site or mailing list is adequate as a sole source of information.. but with suitable reality checks, i find MacInTouch is a genuinely useful resource -- steve harley From ehrich at mninter.net Wed Nov 12 14:27:01 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: shells Message-ID: >>>Xcode also has worksheets -- in other words, the MPW functionality >>>I believe you're looking for. >>> >>What's a worksheet? > >a merging of text editor and shell such that instead of >having commands entered and acted upon one line at a time >(the "readline" concept mentioned earlier in the thread), >one can compose one or more commands in an editor >environment, 'readline' is an awkward input system with a very long list of navigation keystroke shortcuts from before mouses were known. A normal text editor, like the one that all Macs use when entering text in a dialogue window, is much easier to use. The xcode worksheet does allow multiple commands so long as they are on the same logical line, but it opens a new shell for each such command line and then quits it, leaving no contimuity. Thus: cd ~/ ls -al will not show my home directory because a new shell is invoked for the ls command. Instead, you have to do: cd ~/; ls -al That's good enough for a list of 'features', but not very useful. I don't know how well the BBEdit version works. -- Bill Ehrich From ian at SKYLIST.net Wed Nov 12 14:47:02 2003 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11718358-1562-11D8-A3BC-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> On Nov 12, 2003, at 4:25 PM, William Ehrich wrote: > The xcode worksheet does allow multiple commands so long as they are > on the same logical line, but it opens a new shell for each such > command line and then quits it, leaving no contimuity. Thus: > > cd ~/ > ls -al > > will not show my home directory because a new shell is invoked for the > ls command. Instead, you have to do: > > cd ~/; ls -al > > That's good enough for a list of 'features', but not very useful. > > I don't know how well the BBEdit version works. > The bbedit one works great. It does spawn a single shell so you do have context between commands, and you can save worksheets with useful commands for future use. I don't use it all the time, but in certain situations it's awesome. The integration with shell scripting is also great - I can just slap a quick script together, choose run from a menu, and get the output in a new window. I use that all the time. I would say that those two features of BBEdit save me hours over the course of a week. Ian From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 12 14:50:14 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU In-Reply-To: <83E0D08E-1550-11D8-90D6-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> References: <83E0D08E-1550-11D8-90D6-000393036AB6@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: <6A244BA2-1562-11D8-8718-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 12, 2003, at 3:40 PM, mark wrote: > > On 12 Nov 2003, at 21:21, Lawrence Sica wrote: > >> PPTP? PPTP is a vpn protocol, you are vpn'ing into your ISP? Do you >> mean PPPOE? > > No, I imagine he (Dietmar) probably meant PPTP. Some ADSL providers > (here in Europe) do PPTP rather than PPPOE. Over your way too, I > believe. > None of the ISP's that I have dealt with (I am in the industry too). I have seen some colleges use it to authenticate over wireless links though. It's a crappy protocol as it is heh --Larry From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Nov 12 15:11:03 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031112, 16:25 -0600, they whom i call William Ehrich wrote: >The xcode worksheet does allow multiple commands so long as they are >on the same logical line, but it opens a new shell for each such >command line and then quits it, leaving no contimuity. Thus: yikes -- that's not very useful >I don't know how well the BBEdit version works. much better -- one shell session is managed for all the commands, so it keeps your context.. there are minor problems, such as if you use a command such as sudo or rm -i, you can't enter the expected input.. and sometimes such as when spitting out a long man page the text changes color incorrectly i run 6.5 so i don't know if these are fixed in 7.x -- steve harley From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Wed Nov 12 15:34:03 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 12, 2003, at 5:25 PM, William Ehrich wrote: > 'readline' is an awkward input system with a very long list of > navigation keystroke shortcuts from before mouses were known. A normal > text editor, like the one that all Macs use when entering text in a > dialogue window, is much easier to use. > > The xcode worksheet does allow multiple commands so long as they are > on the same logical line, but it opens a new shell for each such > command line and then quits it, leaving no contimuity. Thus: > > cd ~/ > ls -al > > will not show my home directory because a new shell is invoked for the > ls command. Instead, you have to do: > > cd ~/; ls -al > Interesting. So it's like an emacs shell (hence the xemacs recommendation), except really broken. When I'm in "command line" mode, my fingers automatically reach for those "readline" keys, which happen to be pretty similar to emacs bindings, so that's probably where I would turn to for "shell in a text editor" functionality. The BBEdit implementation sounds pretty cool too, though. It does seem truly bizarre the way it was implemented in xcode. I can't imagine it would have taken much more to get something actually usable out of this feature, as opposed to the not quite useful state you describe. Maybe next release. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1432 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031112/a6d2604e/attachment.bin From rogerhoward at mac.com Wed Nov 12 15:38:01 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" Message-ID: <2276EEF0-1569-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> An update to an ongoing study on the state of the world for professional photographers (survey by RIT) has been posted at: http://www.rit.edu/~survey03/index.html The interesting statistic, and what makes it relevant to this list, is that Mac use is actually up as compared to 1997, while PC use is down (it measures both independently, since many people have both). 1997 ?72% / 50% 2003 ?79% / 37% It's an interesting study, and this statistic really raises questions as to why Mac photography software is so goddamn awful, while the manufactures keep catering to Windows, when the industry is obviously still a Mac haven (as if I needed a study to tell me that!). I bought a Canon EOS-10D this year, and was absolutely offended by the quality of the Mac version of their software - admittedly, the software is bad enough on Windows, but it's absolutely unusable on a Mac, meaning the majority of the purchasers of this camera will probably end up having to buy an expensive third-party app to fill the gap. Fortunately, Photoshop CS absolutely rules with Camera RAW II. Cheers, Roger From guy.english at sympatico.ca Wed Nov 12 15:40:06 2003 From: guy.english at sympatico.ca (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: References: <9DFFC4EC-13C2-11D8-BCFF-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <5A0A09CA-1569-11D8-BF81-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> On Nov 10, 2003, at 4:12 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > Xcode also has worksheets -- in other words, the MPW functionality I > believe you're looking for. How do I get this to work? I can't see a mention of it anywhere obvious in the UI and the Help for "worksheet" came up blank. Guy From ehrich at mninter.net Wed Nov 12 16:34:04 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>I don't know how well the BBEdit version works. > >much better -- one shell session is managed for all the >commands, so it keeps your context.. there are minor >problems, such as if you use a command such as sudo or rm >-i, you can't enter the expected input.. ouch >i run 6.5 so i don't know if these are fixed in 7.x Maybe Apple will improve the xcode version. I did find that opt-click will set the cursor in the Terminal.app input line, so it's not quite as bad as readline. -- Bill Ehrich From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Wed Nov 12 16:52:43 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <2276EEF0-1569-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> References: <2276EEF0-1569-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031113005139.GM3575@Dark-Age.local> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 03:37:10PM -0800, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: : : An update to an ongoing study on the state of the world for : professional photographers (survey by RIT) has been posted at: : : http://www.rit.edu/~survey03/index.html : : The interesting statistic, and what makes it relevant to this list, is : that Mac use is actually up as compared to 1997, while PC use is down : (it measures both independently, since many people have both). : : 1997 ?72% / 50% : 2003 ?79% / 37% : : It's an interesting study, and this statistic really raises questions : as to why Mac photography software is so goddamn awful, while the : manufactures keep catering to Windows, when the industry is obviously : still a Mac haven (as if I needed a study to tell me that!). Professional photographers are considered a niche, and manufacturers usually do not cater to niches. If Mac folks can extract the raw photo data from their digital cameras, most won't complain. So manufacturers don't care, and do not get enough feedback to care. As for software, professional photographers can afford Photoshop. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From rogerhoward at mac.com Wed Nov 12 17:18:03 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <20031113005139.GM3575@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 04:51 PM, Eugene Lee wrote: > Professional photographers are considered a niche, and manufacturers > usually do not cater to niches. If Mac folks can extract the raw photo > data from their digital cameras, most won't complain. So manufacturers > don't care, and do not get enough feedback to care. As for software, > professional photographers can afford Photoshop. Ummm, photographers aren't a niche for photographic manufacturers, and as this study shows Mac users aren't the smaller part of their market either, so it doesn't make sense to have that "hey, at least you can *sorta* use it attitude" we get from other hardware makers. In this case, it would make more sense to cater to Mac users than Windows. Yet, when I buy a pro body from Canon (admittedly, a 10D isn't quite a pro body, but if I got an $8000 1Ds I'd get the same crap software) I would hope for a way to use it fully, but instead I get a useless bundle (worse than most scanner drivers even), and if you're lucky a few expensive commercial alternatives, which are often available for your body only months later. The manufacturers get a ton of negative feedback; very often, there is at most one or two viable alternatives, they are often late to the market, etc. For months my 10D RAW mode was next to useless because Canon's software was so awful and Photoshop CS wasn't out, MacBibble didn't have a profile for it, PhaseOne DSLR offered no support or even a promise, etc. Yes, the situation is a lot like scanner drivers - these companies know hardware, but they often don't know software. But that's beyond my point. Normalizing everything else, why when the majority of PRO PHOTOGRAPHERS use Macs, do the majority of PRO PHOTOGRAPHY apps from PRO PHOTOGRAPHY companies suck more on Macs than they do on Windows? For instance, PhaseOne sells the majority of their hardware to Mac users. They always have. They also produce several versions of CaptureOne (for non-PhaseOne hardware) now, for both Mac and Windows. Assuming the majority of their users are still on Macs, then why would the Windows version be more advanced in features, and more stable and usable over all? I'm not even suggesting they improve their software... I'm simply wondering out loud why there's a platform preference for the side of the market with the FEWER users? Why is the Windows software almost invariably better behaved, when it is also clearly for the smaller audience (when it comes to professional photography)? Do they honestly think they will sell more cameras by focusing on Windows? I bought my 10D without even using the Canon software, and I can't imagine many people just suddenly decide to buy a pro body (or a scanning back) based on liking the software... the software is a necessary evil, people buy pro cameras for the camera. I'm just asking why these companies shaft the larger and more loyal part of their market. Is it Mac software is harder to support? Harder to build? Less stable inherently? I'm sure these aren't the reasons, and it isn't because the market is smaller on the Mac side (as any photo survey will show). Mind you, I wouldn't even mind the expensive alternatives, if they existed. There are a very few options on the Mac, for a market that is clearly loyal to Apple. Photoshop CS is brand new and a glowing exception, but even it isn't for everyone, and given the way manufactures have handled RAW file support (a completely proprietary game right now), it's incumbent on them to support their hardware better with usable software. -R From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Wed Nov 12 17:41:01 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> References: <20031113005139.GM3575@Dark-Age.local> <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031113014042.GC6179@Dark-Age.local> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 05:17:10PM -0800, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: : : On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 04:51 PM, Eugene Lee wrote: : > : >Professional photographers are considered a niche, and manufacturers : >usually do not cater to niches. If Mac folks can extract the raw photo : >data from their digital cameras, most won't complain. So manufacturers : >don't care, and do not get enough feedback to care. As for software, : >professional photographers can afford Photoshop. : : Ummm, photographers aren't a niche for photographic manufacturers, I didn't say "photographers". I said "professional photographers". : >Professional photographers are considered a niche, and manufacturers : >usually do not cater to niches. : > [...] : : Normalizing everything else, why when the majority of PRO PHOTOGRAPHERS : use Macs, do the majority of PRO PHOTOGRAPHY apps from PRO PHOTOGRAPHY : companies suck more on Macs than they do on Windows? As I hinted above, it's a perception issue. Many industries feel (correctly so) that there are many more Windoze users than Mac users. However, they took this feeling and applied to cart blache to their entire product strategy. They believe that, by the numbers, they will make more money from the Windoze masses than the Mac niche minority. So there is less financial emphasis to provide support for Macs that is on par for Windoze. But this is nothing new. As for the question of software suckage, Windoze folks are far more willing to put up with lousy software than Mac folks. : I'm not even suggesting they improve their software... I'm simply : wondering out loud why there's a platform preference for the side of : the market with the FEWER users? Perception issue, see above. : Why is the Windows software almost : invariably better behaved, when it is also clearly for the smaller : audience (when it comes to professional photography)? Software suckage issue, see above. : Do they honestly : think they will sell more cameras by focusing on Windows? Yes. Money from the masses issue, see above. : I'm just asking why these : companies shaft the larger and more loyal part of their market. Most companies do not have the long-term vision to build serious brand loyalty and thinks the effort will cut into short-term profits. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From surajrai at mac.com Wed Nov 12 19:18:01 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj K. Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <2276EEF0-1569-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> References: <2276EEF0-1569-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: <1068692984.3fb2f5f8b60f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> Quoting rogerhoward@mac.com: > I bought a Canon EOS-10D this year, and was absolutely offended by the > quality of the Mac version of their software - admittedly, the software > is bad enough on Windows, but it's absolutely unusable on a Mac, > meaning the majority of the purchasers of this camera will probably end > up having to buy an expensive third-party app to fill the gap. I have yet to see decent software from any hardware manufacturer. They all need lessons on how to write proper software. This is true for Mac and Windows. Perhaps this is done deliberately for the third party vendors? > Fortunately, Photoshop CS absolutely rules with Camera RAW II. My only problem with Photoshop CS is that it is unable to save back to the original raw file and instead uses the new Photoshop RAW file format. It would have been nice if they could have saved the changes back to the original file. S.r. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From rogerhoward at mac.com Wed Nov 12 19:55:01 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <20031113014042.GC6179@Dark-Age.local> References: <20031113005139.GM3575@Dark-Age.local> <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <20031113014042.GC6179@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <04E4FF94-158D-11D8-9442-0003938C8B26@mac.com> On Nov 12, 2003, at 5:40 PM, Eugene Lee wrote: > On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 05:17:10PM -0800, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > : > : On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 04:51 PM, Eugene Lee wrote: > : > > : >Professional photographers are considered a niche, and manufacturers > : >usually do not cater to niches. If Mac folks can extract the raw > photo > : >data from their digital cameras, most won't complain. So > manufacturers > : >don't care, and do not get enough feedback to care. As for > software, > : >professional photographers can afford Photoshop. > : > : Ummm, photographers aren't a niche for photographic manufacturers, > > I didn't say "photographers". I said "professional photographers". Ok.. professional photographers aren't a niche for companies who manufacture professional photo equipment... it's a core business, which they do right with hardware, and shit with software (like scanner vendors). > : >Professional photographers are considered a niche, and manufacturers > : >usually do not cater to niches. > : > > [...] > : > : Normalizing everything else, why when the majority of PRO > PHOTOGRAPHERS > : use Macs, do the majority of PRO PHOTOGRAPHY apps from PRO > PHOTOGRAPHY > : companies suck more on Macs than they do on Windows? > > As I hinted above, it's a perception issue. Many industries feel > (correctly so) that there are many more Windoze users than Mac users. > However, they took this feeling and applied to cart blache to their > entire product strategy. They believe that, by the numbers, they will > make more money from the Windoze masses than the Mac niche minority. Which surveys such as this - and surely their own market research - would disprove. > So there is less financial emphasis to provide support for Macs that is > on par for Windoze. But this is nothing new. I'm not sure - it seems to have gotten progressively worse... Windows versions continue to trudge on, while if we're lucky we get a barely functional Mac version, despite Mac users being the larger portion of the market and customer base. > As for the question of software suckage, Windoze folks are far more > willing to put up with lousy software than Mac folks. I'm Mac folks, and I find myself using Windows versions of software available on both platforms ocassionally. I'm not talking about a Windows users perception of software quality - I'm talking about a Mac user looking at the versions available on both platforms. > : I'm not even suggesting they improve their software... I'm simply > : wondering out loud why there's a platform preference for the side of > : the market with the FEWER users? > > Perception issue, see above. > > : Why is the Windows software almost > : invariably better behaved, when it is also clearly for the smaller > : audience (when it comes to professional photography)? > > Software suckage issue, see above. Not, see above. > : Do they honestly > : think they will sell more cameras by focusing on Windows? > > Yes. Money from the masses issue, see above. And yet they don't; see market research, independent surveys, or just visit your local pro photo shop and talk to the guys hanging out. So do you really believe these manufactures *don't* know their markets? I think it must be something else... I can't imagine these folks don't know the general order of their markets... could it be these companies would simply prefer to support one platform for all, and so despite current customer needs they decide to push in what they consider the safe direction? > : I'm just asking why these > : companies shaft the larger and more loyal part of their market. > > Most companies do not have the long-term vision to build serious brand > loyalty and thinks the effort will cut into short-term profits. Actually, I think more than many, companies like Canon and Nikon *survive* based purely on brand loyalty; that's how the pro photo market works. If you think Mac vs Windows is religious... Anyway, I'm not trying to pick a fight, just wondering out loud - I don't of course even have any hard evidence, other than experience that says that despite the obvious favor of Macs in photo studios, camera manufacturers would just rather they not exist. If it were just one or two, I might believe it's simply because they have a stronger Windows development team, as seems often to be the case, but this is pretty consistent across the industry (consumer cameras it's probably even worse - thanks to iPhoto, it matters less for those users tho). Cheers, Roger From rogerhoward at mac.com Wed Nov 12 20:02:08 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <1068692984.3fb2f5f8b60f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> References: <2276EEF0-1569-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <1068692984.3fb2f5f8b60f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1DEDBC32-158E-11D8-9442-0003938C8B26@mac.com> On Nov 12, 2003, at 7:09 PM, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > I have yet to see decent software from any hardware manufacturer. > They all need > lessons on how to write proper software. This is true for Mac and > Windows. > Perhaps this is done deliberately for the third party vendors? Oh, I TOTALLY agree. I'm not talking about the overall quality of the application design - that is always bad, camera makers just shouldn't design GUIs; I simply mean the operational quality differences between a Windows version and a Mac version of the same app (usually, unfortunately, with the same UI). The Windows versions will usually at least feel reasonably fast, and often process reasonably fast; the Mac version acts like a IIci choking on a load a drum scan. Yes, both versions suck badly; it's just that ignoring the common issues, the Mac version invariably sucks even more. >> Fortunately, Photoshop CS absolutely rules with Camera RAW II. > > My only problem with Photoshop CS is that it is unable to save back to > the > original raw file and instead uses the new Photoshop RAW file format. > It would > have been nice if they could have saved the changes back to the > original file. It is possible to save the *processing* options you applied during the last development - I think this happens automatically (Photoshop maintains a RAW conversion database, so next time you try to develop a RAW you've worked on in the past, it will preset you with the previous development settings, though you can easily override these and revert to Camera Default or another preset). But actually applying changes to a RAW file's data and writing it back to the original file defeats the point of RAW (which refers to it being raw camera sensor data - not even full RGB on most cameras, since most use a Bayer or similar pattern - plus some environmental metadata). And there's no new Photoshop RAW format - you should be saving out to TIFF or PSD after processing... the Photoshop RAW file format is really just a plugin for reading a file containing a series of binary RGB values with no other structure (headings, etc)... Cheers, Roger From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Wed Nov 12 20:10:06 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <04E4FF94-158D-11D8-9442-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: "Roger Howard" wrote: > could it be these companies would simply prefer to support one platform for > all, and so despite current customer needs they decide to push in what they > consider the safe direction? They are not alone. I'm sure Adobe feels the same, too. This the reality/perception (depending on your religion) of declining Mac market share coming home to roost. d*g From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 12 20:15:47 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: <5A0A09CA-1569-11D8-BF81-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> References: <9DFFC4EC-13C2-11D8-BCFF-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <5A0A09CA-1569-11D8-BF81-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Nov 12, 2003, at 3:38 PM, Guy English wrote: > How do I get this to work? I can't see a mention of it anywhere > obvious in the UI and the Help for "worksheet" came up blank. Type a command, select it, hit control-R. The output will replace the selection. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 12 20:18:36 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: shells In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1550D0C1-1590-11D8-9C1A-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 12, 2003, at 3:34 PM, Jim Rankin wrote: > Interesting. So it's like an emacs shell (hence the xemacs > recommendation), except really broken. When I'm in "command line" > mode, my fingers automatically reach for those "readline" keys, which > happen to be pretty similar to emacs bindings Some of that stuff does work in Xcode (as well as pretty much any NSText object). Control-A and Control-E work, for example. I couldn't think of anything else to test at the moment. There are probably others that work too, though. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From macosx at wooz.org Wed Nov 12 20:23:02 2003 From: macosx at wooz.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <2276EEF0-1569-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> References: <2276EEF0-1569-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: <1068697347.3723.1.camel@anthem> On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 18:37, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > It's an interesting study, and this statistic really raises questions > as to why Mac photography software is so goddamn awful, while the > manufactures keep catering to Windows, when the industry is obviously > still a Mac haven (as if I needed a study to tell me that!). Is this where I get to rant against Sprint for not making Mac software available for syncing their PCS phones, and Lego for not providing Mac software for use with their Lego Studio kits? -Barry From macosx at wooz.org Wed Nov 12 20:28:25 2003 From: macosx at wooz.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <1068692984.3fb2f5f8b60f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> References: <2276EEF0-1569-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <1068692984.3fb2f5f8b60f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1068697605.3723.6.camel@anthem> On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 22:09, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > I have yet to see decent software from any hardware manufacturer. They all need > lessons on how to write proper software. This is true for Mac and Windows. > Perhaps this is done deliberately for the third party vendors? Here's one very pleasant exception for you audio/music/DAW heads: M-Audio. I've got an Omni I/O PCI card in my G4 and the OSX driver for it is superb. In fact, the OSX driver is way way better than the OS9 driver was. It Just Worked and has never had a moment's glitch. -Barry From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 12 20:46:02 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: mail.app problem: filters are causing mail item duplicates -- bug Message-ID: <2C2B081B-1594-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Here is another one. This one I am going to file as a bug. I have one "spam" filter (rule) that runs on all new mail. It looks for two different headers that are placed there on the server if the server detects a possible spam using 2 different server side methods. The rule is so: ------------------------------------------------------- if ( any ) of the following conditions are met: ( X-Spam-Flag ) ( contains ) [ YES ] ( X-Shire-Spam-Found ) ( contains ) [ YES ] Perform the following action: ( Move Message ) to mailbox: ( spam ) ------------------------------------------------------- It appears from a short investigation on double mails in my spam folder (ie, two identical copies of the same mail down to headers and ids and everything) that if the rule finds BOTH of the conditions, it copies the mail to the spam folder twice. Not all spams that get copied in are doubled, but it appears that those that trigger both of the conditions are. (In case anyone is wondering, the X-Spam-Flag is from a server installation of Spam Assassin and the X-Shire-Spam-Found is an exim system script I wrote a few years ago that does scoring and that flags a few messages that SA misses, while Spam Assassin flags a lot that my script misses, since it has had very few updates in the last couple years) Anyone seeing this sort of behavior? best Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 12 20:54:02 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: "DiskManage"... ??? Message-ID: <4EA7AB7F-1595-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> In doing a "top" on my machine I see two processes with the command listed as "DiskManage" (which may be cut short since it only shows so much in that column). One has a 0.0% CPU usage and one fluctuates between 40% and 60% . Anyone know what this is? I found this with locate: /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/ DiskManagement /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/Resources /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/Versions /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/Versions/A /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/Versions/A/ DiskManagement /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/Versions/A/ Resources /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/Versions/A/ Resources/DiskManagementTool /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/Versions/A/ Resources/diskutil.8 /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/Versions/A/ Resources/English.lproj /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/Versions/A/ Resources/English.lproj/InfoPlist.strings /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/Versions/A/ Resources/HintFile.plist /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/Versions/A/ Resources/HintFile.plist.example /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/Versions/A/ Resources/Info.plist /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/Versions/A/ Resources/version.plist /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DiskManagement.framework/Versions/ Current I do have a "Disk Utility" running that is "erasing" a firewire disk with the 8-way random data (which has been going for a over 16 or so hours), but that shouldn't take up 50+% of the CPU ongoing should it? (800mhz G4 100mhz bus machine 2gb ram) Anyway, just curious if anyone know what this might be thanks Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 12 20:56:08 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Panther "tooltips" weirdness with Mail and Safari In-Reply-To: References: <9D8211D8-154C-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <99A9C908-1595-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 12, 2003, at 1:28 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > On Nov 12, 2003, at 2:13 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >> >> This has been happening since I upgraded to Panther and is very >> annoying. (I have not yet installed the 10.3.1 update yet as I have >> some stuff running that means I cannot reboot quite yet). >> >> This has happened in both Mail.app and Safari. Basically, moving the >> mouse pointer around will sometime (often) trigger a "tooltip"[1] >> frenzy where the tooltips keep flashing, and often cycle through >> several different tooltips, for as long as 10 seconds, blocking event >> processing. So while this happens, I cannot click on anything but >> when it stops all the clicks catch up. > > I have seen this as well, but it never happens for more than a couple > of seconds for me. It usually is a couple of seconds but the episode that spurred me to post lasted about 8-11 seconds, something in that range... It goes in cycles. Has only happened a few fleeting times since I posted, but before I posted was happening a lot... Darn annoying. Chad From rogerhoward at mac.com Wed Nov 12 21:07:05 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <1068697347.3723.1.camel@anthem> References: <2276EEF0-1569-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <1068697347.3723.1.camel@anthem> Message-ID: <1D5F6C9A-1597-11D8-8DDF-0003938C8B26@mac.com> On Nov 12, 2003, at 8:22 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 18:37, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > >> It's an interesting study, and this statistic really raises questions >> as to why Mac photography software is so goddamn awful, while the >> manufactures keep catering to Windows, when the industry is obviously >> still a Mac haven (as if I needed a study to tell me that!). > > Is this where I get to rant against Sprint for not making Mac software > available for syncing their PCS phones, and Lego for not providing Mac > software for use with their Lego Studio kits? Well, feel free to rant all you want... but the difference is that no one has shown that either Sprint or Lego's user base is predominantly Mac-based! Best, Roger From lists at michaelscheurer.com Wed Nov 12 21:22:01 2003 From: lists at michaelscheurer.com (Michael Scheurer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 - gotchyas In-Reply-To: <26A52EC5-1525-11D8-A305-000A27984144@bdanube.com> Message-ID: on 13/11/03 2:30 AM, Michael Grant wrote: > Michael Kamprath (the author) was saying something on the KM mailing > list about updating it for Panther right when Panther came out, but I > haven't heard anything since then, and the info on the Web site is a > year old. FWIW, I've been playing around with the latest beta today and haven't had any crashes at all... -- Michael Scheurer From andyring at inebraska.com Wed Nov 12 21:24:15 2003 From: andyring at inebraska.com (Andy Ringsmuth) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Two sound questions Message-ID: <954D7796-1599-11D8-8956-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> I've got two sound-related questions for the group. First, is it possible to record directly to a CD at all? Here's the scenario. I run the sound equipment at church every Sunday (brand-new sound setup, mixing board, etc.), and would like to record the sermon or even the entire service, roughly an hour, so that church members who are not able to attend (elderly, illness, etc.) can listen to the service. Obviously, I could scrounge up a cassette recorder somewhere, but I'd like a way to use my PowerBook (G4 867, 10.3.1) to record the service, and record it directly to CD, in real time. That way, by the time the pastors get to the back of the church after service, I could hand them a burned CD. Anyone know of a way to do this? Secondly, does anyone have any recommendations on a program that could be used to record sound to disk, and do it reliably for a 3-hour time period? I'm sure some of you follow the news/political world out there, and Rush Limbaugh will be coming back on the air this coming Monday, following his return from rehab. All politics aside, I'd like to be able to run a cord from the headphone jack on a radio at home to the audio in (Griffin iMic) on my PowerMac G4, take an early lunch, come home, click "record" and know that it'll record without incident for at least the next 3 hours, so I can listen to it later, as I'm not able to listen at work. Thanks for any suggestions! -Andy From joar at joar.com Wed Nov 12 22:40:01 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: FTP/SMB in Finder In-Reply-To: <77EE51EC-154A-11D8-965A-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> References: <77EE51EC-154A-11D8-965A-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> Message-ID: <13C04F38-15A4-11D8-B2E3-000393D4AB70@joar.com> On 2003-11-12, at 20.57, Michael Stearne wrote: > 1. Why is FTP read-only when mounting through the Finder even when > using proper credentials? Because FTP is not a file system. IIRC it doesn't know about "open" files, nor how to lock files. If you allow people to write to files two users could try to write to a file at the same time, leading to problems. This is of course true for any FTP client, but if you were using a FTP client you would not call Apple and complain about this when / if such a thing would happen. See the difference? > 2. Why does the Finder still seem to not be able to correctly > remember SMB (and FTP) username, password and domain information. Because Finder stinks? I don't think that they will ever "get it right" (as Steve claimed they had this time around). j o a r From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Nov 12 23:00:03 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Two sound questions In-Reply-To: <954D7796-1599-11D8-8956-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> References: <954D7796-1599-11D8-8956-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> Message-ID: [cross-post removed] at 20031112, 23:23 -0600, they whom i call Andy Ringsmuth wrote: >First, is it possible to record directly to a CD at all? not that i know of without dedicated equipment.. a better choice might be a $100 minidisc recorder > That way, by the time the pastors get to the back of the church >after service, I could hand them a burned CD. Anyone know of a way >to do this? how fast does the pastor walk? how long is the church? get a fast CD burner, record the sermon to aiff, as soon as it is over start burning the result.. conservatively (no pun intended), you'll have a disc in a three or four minutes.. if the pastor knows what do with an MP3 CD instead of an audio CD, you could record directly to 64kbps mp3 and do the burn in under a minute even with a mid-speed burner >Secondly, does anyone have any recommendations on a program that >could be used to record sound to disk, and do it reliably for a >3-hour time period? most basic sound recording apps should be reliable enough.. i've recorded hour or so cassette tapes to MP3 no problem with the ultra-simple AudioRecorder, though i doubt it's the best.. why not find one and test it beforehand.. doesn't one come with iMic? or browse through the "audio" category at VersionTracker.. i don't think you need a "pro" app to do this.. just make sure you have enough disk space, and practice > All politics aside, the best way to leave politics aside is not to mention it in the first place ;?> >I'd like to be able to run a cord from the headphone jack on a radio >at home to the audio in (Griffin iMic) on my PowerMac G4, take an >early lunch, come home, click "record" and know that it'll record >without incident for at least the next 3 hours, so I can listen to >it later, as I'm not able to listen at work. a few recording apps that have timed recording; i think Audio Hijack Pro is one -- steve harley From jared at 23x.net Thu Nov 13 00:01:13 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: <7EA167C2-15AF-11D8-B8D7-000A958F180A@23x.net> On 13 Nov 2003, at 02:17, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > Photoshop CS is brand new and a glowing exception, but even it isn't > for everyone As a quick aside, I need to get Photoshop CS for work but it's too damned expensive[1]. So, my manager decided to take a chance and bought a 5-pack of Photoshop 5 on ebay for 300 Euros. I registered the app with Adobe and am ordering upgrades dirt cheap for a savings of several thousand Euros. That's the way to do it. [1] In French. -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "Never go in against a SPORK, when *death* is on the line!" From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 13 00:34:02 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: On 13 Nov 2003, at 01:17, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > Normalizing everything else, why when the majority of PRO > PHOTOGRAPHERS use Macs, do the majority of PRO PHOTOGRAPHY apps from > PRO PHOTOGRAPHY companies suck more on Macs than they do on Windows? For the same reason as every other market. There's the potential of selling to the millions of the great unwashed who use PCs. It's not a realistic venture and even if it was, the saturation of the market is such that people who write software for PCs are really one mote of dust in the big hooverbag that is the software market. Maybe the accountants believe the Mac market is only 3% of the world.[1] and only permit developer resources to allow for that. Maybe the developers themselves are crap.[2] M [1] I find this increasingly hard to believe and now think it's a finger in the air estimation by some PC journalist. Anyone with hard stats - I'd love to see them. [2] HP's All-in-one products had TERRIBLE software and HP was sending out feelers last year to try and find someone to write a new batch, Carbon, for OSX and OS9. They had a hard time finding anyone because eventually it landed at my doorstep. I'm not a developer - I (at the time) only ran the sodding local user group. Goes to show, though. From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Nov 13 00:55:02 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <7EA167C2-15AF-11D8-B8D7-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <7EA167C2-15AF-11D8-B8D7-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: On Nov 13, 2003, at 1:00 AM, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > On 13 Nov 2003, at 02:17, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: >> Photoshop CS is brand new and a glowing exception, but even it isn't >> for everyone > > As a quick aside, I need to get Photoshop CS for work but it's too > damned expensive[1]. So, my manager decided to take a chance and > bought a 5-pack of Photoshop 5 on ebay for 300 Euros. I registered the > app with Adobe and am ordering upgrades dirt cheap for a savings of > several thousand Euros. > I did you one better (but not with Photoshop). I wanted Go Live a year and a half ago so I found a copy of the old adobe home html editor, whatever it was called, for like $2 on ebay, plus a few dollars shipping, and was able to get a Go Live upgrade for $99 (versus several hundred for the retail)... And Macromedia lost a customer. I had version 1 and version 2 of DreamWeaver registered but they only allow recent versions to upgrade so I went with the Adobe one... Chad From surajrai at mac.com Thu Nov 13 01:34:01 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj K. Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <1DEDBC32-158E-11D8-9442-0003938C8B26@mac.com> References: <2276EEF0-1569-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <1068692984.3fb2f5f8b60f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> <1DEDBC32-158E-11D8-9442-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: <1068715547.3fb34e1ba789a@raifamily.dyndns.org> Quoting Roger Howard : > But actually applying changes to > a RAW file's data and writing it back to the original file defeats the > point of RAW (which refers to it being raw camera sensor data - not > even full RGB on most cameras, since most use a Bayer or similar > pattern - plus some environmental metadata). Does that mean that if I change the exposure level or the color temperature on a RAW file and save it, I will not be able to get back to the previous version? My RAW workflow has always been to get it right on the RAW file, save it, and then export to a Photoshop supported format for editing. Otherwise, I have to go and redo the RAW changes the next time I want to export an image. Of course my goal is to not to have to modify the RAW file and get it right the first time but until then...this has been my workflow. S.r. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From oeyvind at mac.com Thu Nov 13 01:46:01 2003 From: oeyvind at mac.com (Tim Chong) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <1068715547.3fb34e1ba789a@raifamily.dyndns.org> References: <2276EEF0-1569-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <1068692984.3fb2f5f8b60f0@raifamily.dyndns.org> <1DEDBC32-158E-11D8-9442-0003938C8B26@mac.com> <1068715547.3fb34e1ba789a@raifamily.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1C416ABC-15BE-11D8-BDBF-000393DC80A0@mac.com> S.R., Photoshop CS's ACR will remember your last RAW import settings. It's good ideal to save your grand work as JPEG2000 or PSD format, along with JPEG for WEB etc. RAW is like negative, leave it for future work if you want. Tim Tim Chong ±i«ä¼y GSM: +65 967 22 153 mailto:tim@oeyvind.org On Nov 13, 2003, at 17:25, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > Quoting Roger Howard : > >> But actually applying changes to >> a RAW file's data and writing it back to the original file defeats the >> point of RAW (which refers to it being raw camera sensor data - not >> even full RGB on most cameras, since most use a Bayer or similar >> pattern - plus some environmental metadata). > > Does that mean that if I change the exposure level or the color > temperature on a > RAW file and save it, I will not be able to get back to the previous > version? > My RAW workflow has always been to get it right on the RAW file, save > it, and > then export to a Photoshop supported format for editing. Otherwise, I > have to > go and redo the RAW changes the next time I want to export an image. > Of course > my goal is to not to have to modify the RAW file and get it right the > first > time but until then...this has been my workflow. > > > S.r. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From wjcheeseman at earthlink.net Thu Nov 13 04:41:23 2003 From: wjcheeseman at earthlink.net (Bill Cheeseman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Universal Access? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 2003-11-12 4:48 PM, Guy English at guy.english@sympatico.ca wrote: > I've been playing with the Accessibility framework recently and it's > pretty cool. A few quirks I've noticed though: The Accessibility API is cool. It makes all "standard" Carbon and Cocoa UI elements accessible in all applications -- even older applications that were compiled before the Accessibility API was available, if they're running under Jaguar or newer. In Panther, standard Carbon UI elements are more or less equally accessible with Cocoa UI elements, and the accessibility is much faster than it was in Jaguar. The problem lies in the qualification mentioned above, that the application use "standard" Carbon or Cocoa UI code. It is very easy to make your custom UI elements accessible in Carbon and in Cocoa, and the documentation for doing it is pretty good. But many application developers do not bother to do this. As long as developers consider accessibility to be a side issue, assistive applications on the Mac platform either won't work with custom UI elements or the assistive application developers will have to resort to hacks. Unfortunately, Apple's own applications are as lax as third-party applications on this score, at least at this time. The iApps, in particular, are chock full of custom UI elements, and many or even most of these custom UI elements have not been made accessible. Apple needs to address this issue. So do all you third-party developers reading this message. My PreFab UI Browser application is a developer tool for testing the accessibility of any Mac application. You can download the free 30-day trial version and use it to gauge the accessibility of your own application, or anybody else's. UI Browser is itself, in a manner of speaking, an assistive application; that is, it uses the same Accessibility API that a screen reader would use. . In general, UI Browser demonstrates that most applications running under Panther (and Jaguar, to a lesser extent) are very accessible. The exceptions stand out: For example, Excel, File Maker Pro, some Adobe and Macromedia applications, and custom UI elements in many Apple applications. For developers who avoided using standard Carbon and Cocoa UI code, upgrading to full accessibility will be something of a chore -- but doable. A screen reader would be quite easy to write, if it relied solely on Apple's Accessibility API and did not resort to hacks for non-accessible UI elements. So let's all get on the bandwagon and make our custom UI elements fully accessible! -- Bill Cheeseman - wjcheeseman@earthlink.net Quechee Software, Quechee, Vermont, USA http://www.quecheesoftware.com The AppleScript Sourcebook - http://www.AppleScriptSourcebook.com Vermont Recipes - http://www.stepwise.com/Articles/VermontRecipes From dave at difference.com.au Thu Nov 13 06:49:03 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: I think a lot of the issue is that if you contract out a developer to write the requisite software, and you ask for a single developer to do both Mac and Windows, you are more likely to get a Windows developer that will have a stab at Mac than a Mac developer that will take a stab at Windows, the former being more numerous. And possibly more likely to take on the work. Cheers David From mstearne at entermix.com Thu Nov 13 06:52:02 2003 From: mstearne at entermix.com (Michael Stearne) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: FTP/SMB in Finder In-Reply-To: <13C04F38-15A4-11D8-B2E3-000393D4AB70@joar.com> References: <77EE51EC-154A-11D8-965A-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> <13C04F38-15A4-11D8-B2E3-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: On Nov 13, 2003, at 1:39 AM, j o a r wrote: > On 2003-11-12, at 20.57, Michael Stearne wrote: > >> 1. Why is FTP read-only when mounting through the Finder even when >> using proper credentials? > > Because FTP is not a file system. IIRC it doesn't know about "open" > files, nor how to lock files. If you allow people to write to files > two users could try to write to a file at the same time, leading to > problems. This is of course true for any FTP client, but if you were > using a FTP client you would not call Apple and complain about this > when / if such a thing would happen. See the difference? Yes, but Windows and Linux doesn't have this "feature". > >> 2. Why does the Finder still seem to not be able to correctly >> remember SMB (and FTP) username, password and domain information. > > Because Finder stinks? I don't think that they will ever "get it > right" (as Steve claimed they had this time around). > haha Michael From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 13 07:51:06 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: FTP/SMB in Finder In-Reply-To: References: <77EE51EC-154A-11D8-965A-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> <13C04F38-15A4-11D8-B2E3-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: <241F17C8-15F1-11D8-9492-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 13 Nov 2003, at 14:51, Michael Stearne wrote: > On Nov 13, 2003, at 1:39 AM, j o a r wrote: >> On 2003-11-12, at 20.57, Michael Stearne wrote: >>> 1. Why is FTP read-only when mounting through the Finder even when >>> using proper credentials? >> Because FTP is not a file system. IIRC it doesn't know about "open" >> files, nor how to lock files. If you allow people to write to files >> two users could try to write to a file at the same time, leading to >> problems. This is of course true for any FTP client, but if you were >> using a FTP client you would not call Apple and complain about this >> when / if such a thing would happen. See the difference? > > Yes, but Windows and Linux doesn't have this "feature". And shame on Windows and Linux for including it. That said. Yes, I think Apple SHOULD include it. It's just one more thing for some clueless noob to criticise Mac OS X. "Stupid Apple. Doing the right thing, following standards...." From jeff at stikman.com Thu Nov 13 07:58:07 2003 From: jeff at stikman.com (Jeff Grossman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Browse Network Message-ID: I am running OS X 10.3. When I click on the Browse button under Connect To Server, or if I try going into Network Shift-Apple-K from the Go menu, nothing happens. When I first installed 10.3 I was able to click on the Browse button, but now nothing. Is there something I changed? Thanks, Jeff -- Jeff Grossman (jeff@stikman.com) From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 13 08:02:03 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Browse Network In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 13 Nov 2003, at 15:57, Jeff Grossman wrote: > I am running OS X 10.3. When I click on the Browse button under > Connect To > Server, or if I try going into Network Shift-Apple-K from the Go menu, > nothing happens. When I first installed 10.3 I was able to click on > the > Browse button, but now nothing. Is there something I changed? I suggest relaunching your Finder. M Finder: the uid 0 of all evil From rogerhoward at mac.com Thu Nov 13 08:28:01 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <1068715547.3fb34e1ba789a@raifamily.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <3808C598-15F6-11D8-B650-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> On Thursday, November 13, 2003, at 01:25 AM, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > Quoting Roger Howard : > >> But actually applying changes to >> a RAW file's data and writing it back to the original file defeats the >> point of RAW (which refers to it being raw camera sensor data - not >> even full RGB on most cameras, since most use a Bayer or similar >> pattern - plus some environmental metadata). > > Does that mean that if I change the exposure level or the color > temperature on a > RAW file and save it, I will not be able to get back to the previous > version? Yes, you can ALWAYS get back to the original state of a RAW file because it remains unchanged. At most all that ever changes is some metadata which describes various post-processing options (change of color temp, etc), but none of that is permanent. Here's what happens when you process a raw in Photoshop's Camera RAW (at least in CS): 1) Open a RAW, it dumps you into the RAW processing interface; 2) You apply some changes to the current settings for exposure, color, other edits; 3) You hit "OK"; the changes you set have been recorded in Photoshop's RAW database, and then applied to the RAW, which is now processed and delivered to Photoshop as a standard bitmap (unsaved). The changes you set were NEVER actual edits on the RAW file, you always work on a processed copy Next time you go to develop the same RAW, it'll remember the options you used the last time you processed it, and will apply those by default; but you can easily override them to restore it to Camera Default (as it came out of the camera) or other states. > My RAW workflow has always been to get it right on the RAW file, save > it, and > then export to a Photoshop supported format for editing. What app are you editing a RAW with? I don't know any apps that allow you to actually edit the camera raw data, you're always essentially defining a transformation between the unchanging RAW state and some final bitmap state defined by your edits. > Otherwise, I have to > go and redo the RAW changes the next time I want to export an image. > Of course > my goal is to not to have to modify the RAW file and get it right the > first > time but until then...this has been my workflow. It's often necessary to have to go back and re-edit from the beginning, which is why Adobe stores previous processing settings... but it never actually changes the source RAW data. -R From rogerhoward at mac.com Thu Nov 13 08:33:19 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thursday, November 13, 2003, at 06:44 AM, David Cake wrote: > I think a lot of the issue is that if you contract out a developer to > write the requisite software, and you ask for a single developer to do > both Mac and Windows, you are more likely to get a Windows developer > that will have a stab at Mac than a Mac developer that will take a > stab at Windows, the former being more numerous. And possibly more > likely to take on the work. That was kinda what I was getting at... it seems even in cases where Mac should be the preferred platform, there are development issues, maybe related to choices in cross-platform development methodology, that lead the same app to be at least marginally preferable on Windows compared to the Mac version. I can't imagine these folks don't know their markets... if they didn't, they probably wouldn't support Mac OSX at all... I just think there must be something seriously flawed in their development process. -R From ian at SKYLIST.net Thu Nov 13 08:36:45 2003 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 13, 2003, at 2:32 AM, Matt wrote: > Maybe the accountants believe the Mac market is only 3% of the > world.[1] and only permit developer resources to allow for that. Maybe > the developers themselves are crap.[2] > > M > > [1] I find this increasingly hard to believe and now think it's a > finger in the air estimation by some PC journalist. Anyone with hard > stats - I'd love to see them. > Unfortunately, I think three percent is about right. :( The best numbers I've ever come up with are from google, which I believe is probably a pretty reasonable cross-section of users. They show about 3% of users accessing google using macs: http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.html Ian From surajrai at mac.com Thu Nov 13 08:49:36 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <3808C598-15F6-11D8-B650-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> References: <3808C598-15F6-11D8-B650-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:27 AM, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > > What app are you editing a RAW with? I don't know any apps that allow > you to actually edit the camera raw data, you're always essentially > defining a transformation between the unchanging RAW state and some > final bitmap state defined by your edits. Canon File Viewer. It can save the changes back into the original file if you want. It is also the slowest app I have ever used. >> Otherwise, I have to >> go and redo the RAW changes the next time I want to export an image. >> Of course >> my goal is to not to have to modify the RAW file and get it right the >> first >> time but until then...this has been my workflow. > > It's often necessary to have to go back and re-edit from the > beginning, which is why Adobe stores previous processing settings... > but it never actually changes the source RAW data. Thanks for this tip. Tim Chong also mentioned this in an earlier post. S.r. From surajrai at mac.com Thu Nov 13 08:51:29 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <184D7746-15F9-11D8-BB04-000A95A50218@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:30 AM, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > > I can't imagine these folks don't know their markets... if they > didn't, they probably wouldn't support Mac OSX at all... I just think > there must be something seriously flawed in their development process. I think Apple should talk to these guys about their software. They should have a small group who advise companies on how to write proper Mac OS X software. It would be in the best interest of Apple to do this no? S.r. From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 13 08:55:06 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: <3215C555-15F9-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 13 Nov 2003, at 16:32, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > Unfortunately, I think three percent is about right. :( The best > numbers I've ever come up with are from google, which I believe is > probably a pretty reasonable cross-section of users. > They show about 3% of users accessing google using macs: > http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.html which shows a cross section of people accessing google. And while that may be representative of people using Macs on the Internet, it's possibly not representative of people using Macs. I'm in an office filled with Macs right now. A couple of them may be google users but the older machines here can't get on the internet really. I mean, don't we all say that Macs have longer lifespans? M -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From pcoskren at mac.com Thu Nov 13 09:00:39 2003 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: <4EFC9D9C-15FA-11D8-95B7-003065C198D4@mac.com> On Nov 13, 2003, at 11:32 AM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > Unfortunately, I think three percent is about right. :( The best > numbers I've ever come up with are from google, which I believe is > probably a pretty reasonable cross-section of users. They show about > 3% of users accessing google using macs: > > http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.html Hey, still 3 times more than what Linux has. -Patrick From mark at imap-partners.net Thu Nov 13 09:02:15 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: On 13 Nov 2003, at 17:32, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > Unfortunately, I think three percent is about right. :( The best > numbers I've ever come up with are from google, which I believe is > probably a pretty reasonable cross-section of users. They show about > 3% of users accessing google using macs: but these stats are based on browser IDs right ? It is well known (or at least well argued) that this overestimates the % of IE win users due to spoofing. mark. From markm at tyrell.com Thu Nov 13 09:08:23 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Number Of Macs According To Google In-Reply-To: <4EFC9D9C-15FA-11D8-95B7-003065C198D4@mac.com> References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <4EFC9D9C-15FA-11D8-95B7-003065C198D4@mac.com> Message-ID: At 11:56 AM -0500 11/13/03, Patrick Coskren wrote: >Hey, still 3 times more than what Linux has. And 3 times more than Windows 95. We're kicking butt! mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From larkost at softhome.net Thu Nov 13 09:30:01 2003 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Universal Access? In-Reply-To: <7F1E2482-154A-11D8-9316-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <7F1E2482-154A-11D8-9316-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <56AF9B08-1557-11D8-BAD6-003065D8C728@softhome.net> No... ScreenReaders are very complex pieces of software, and there is a real lack of them on MacOS X at the moment. The article linked does a good job of pointing out that this would be a really good place for Apple to step up to the plate. If a decent ScreenReader were built into the OS Apple would have a really strong leg up on any other OS (where the readers cost $800 a seat). Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net On Nov 12, 2003, at 2:57 PM, Matt wrote: > Am I missing something? Doesn't OSX DO all of this stuff? > > http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2003/ > tc20031112_9773_tc056.htm From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Thu Nov 13 10:06:03 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: Junk mail status for mail *placed* in Junk folder? In-Reply-To: <2C2B081B-1594-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <2C2B081B-1594-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <0C962773-1604-11D8-8B1D-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> If I move a piece of mail into the Junk folder with a rule, is it marked as junk mail and parsed into the semantic map (however that is done)? Jim From dinse at niehs.nih.gov Thu Nov 13 10:25:04 2003 From: dinse at niehs.nih.gov (Gregg Dinse) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: an unappealing Finder change In-Reply-To: <3215C555-15F9-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <3215C555-15F9-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi, I use column view and often I work with files that are many levels deep. In previous OSX versions, when I had an application window open and wanted to go back to my current working directory in the Finder, I would simply click on any visible part of the Finder window and that would bring the Finder to the front, but no other Finder actions were performed. In panther (10.3.1), a single click takes me to the directory corresponding to the column in which I clicked, which might be several levels back from where I want to be. Not only that, but the rest of the path is no longer visible, so if I want to get back to where I was, I have to click on several folders (and remember which ones I had clicked on previously). Is this a feature or a bug? Are others seeing this? I assume that there is a reason for this change, and that it is desirable behavior in some situations. It sure does not help my work flow, though. If I click on the Finder icon in the dock or on the Finder's title bar (or bottom bar), I get what I want, but I'm used to clicking anywhere in the Finder window. Is there a way to get the old behavior back? I thought that usually a single click was used to get the focus of a different application, and that a second click was necessary to actually perform an operation. Has this philosophy changed? Thanks in advance for any help, Gregg ================================= Gregg Dinse From markm at tyrell.com Thu Nov 13 10:40:08 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: an unappealing Finder change In-Reply-To: References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <3215C555-15F9-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: At 1:24 PM -0500 11/13/03, Gregg Dinse wrote: >I use column view and often I work with files that are many levels deep. Another annoyance for me is that in List View, one use to be able to click to the left of the document icon which would deselect any current selection. However, now a click in any part of the window now selects the line for the given file. To deselect any selected file, one must click with the command key down. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ssobek at stevesobek.net Thu Nov 13 11:11:03 2003 From: ssobek at stevesobek.net (Steve Sobek) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? Message-ID: Maybe I've missed something, and I'm not enough of an iGeek to know about future changes to OS X, but when I save a file with the same name but different case in Panther, it won't replace it. ?? http://www.igeek.com/articles/Interface/CaseSensitiveFileNames.txt From mmalc_lists at mac.com Thu Nov 13 11:17:23 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: an unappealing Finder change In-Reply-To: References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <3215C555-15F9-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <32CC803C-160D-11D8-8414-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 13, 2003, at 10:24 AM, Gregg Dinse wrote: > If I click on the Finder icon in the dock or on the Finder's title bar > (or bottom bar), I get what I want, but I'm used to clicking anywhere > in the Finder window. Is there a way to get the old behavior back? I > thought that usually a single click was used to get the focus of a > different application, and that a second click was necessary to > actually perform an operation. Has this philosophy changed? > That philosophy has certainly changed ("Get New Mail" in Mail.app provides a conveniently close example -- you can click on the button even when the window is not Key), however IMHO the result in Finder is not desirable. Feel free to file a bug... mmalc From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 13 11:22:04 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: an unappealing Finder change In-Reply-To: References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <3215C555-15F9-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <95735DF6-160D-11D8-9A77-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 13 Nov 2003, at 11:24, Gregg Dinse wrote: > I use column view and often I work with files that are many levels > deep. In previous OSX versions, when I had an application window open > and wanted to go back to my current working directory in the Finder, I > would simply click on any visible part of the Finder window and that > would bring the Finder to the front, but no other Finder actions were > performed. In panther (10.3.1), a single click takes me to the > directory corresponding to the column in which I clicked, which might > be several levels back from where I want to be. Not only that, but > the rest of the path is no longer visible, so if I want to get back to > where I was, I have to click on several folders (and remember which > ones I had clicked on previously). F9. Learn it. Live it. Love it. :) > Is this a feature or a bug? Maybe it's subtle behavior mod? > Are others seeing this? I assume that there is a reason for this > change, and that it is desirable behavior in some situations. It sure > does not help my work flow, though. It's a feature. To bring the window forward with no action, click on the metal border. -- There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031113/b0e9c42c/smime.bin From zbir at urbanape.com Thu Nov 13 11:28:08 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <066F4216-160F-11D8-9FA3-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Nov 13, 2003, at 2:09 PM, Steve Sobek wrote: > Maybe I've missed something, and I'm not enough of an iGeek to know > about future changes to OS X, but when I save a file with the same > name but different case in Panther, it won't replace it. ?? > > http://www.igeek.com/articles/Interface/CaseSensitiveFileNames.txt Sorry about the first post. I had a long screed in mind but hit cmd-shift-d before I even started typing. Decided not to even try to do my screed. Zac From daryl at montagetech.com Thu Nov 13 11:32:48 2003 From: daryl at montagetech.com (Daryl Thachuk) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:24 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9A0082D0-160F-11D8-823F-000393C376D0@montagetech.com> On Nov 13, 2003, at 12:09 PM, Steve Sobek wrote: > Maybe I've missed something, and I'm not enough of an iGeek to know > about future changes to OS X, but when I save a file with the same > name but different case in Panther, it won't replace it. ?? > > http://www.igeek.com/articles/Interface/CaseSensitiveFileNames.txt > Only if the volume you are writing the file to has been formatted to be case sensitive HFS. -d ------ Daryl Thachuk Montage Technologies Inc. http://www.montagetech.com From jeff at stikman.com Thu Nov 13 11:36:03 2003 From: jeff at stikman.com (Jeff Grossman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Browse Network References: Message-ID: Matt wrote: > > On 13 Nov 2003, at 15:57, Jeff Grossman wrote: > >> I am running OS X 10.3. When I click on the Browse button under >> Connect To >> Server, or if I try going into Network Shift-Apple-K from the Go menu, >> nothing happens. When I first installed 10.3 I was able to click on >> the >> Browse button, but now nothing. Is there something I changed? > > I suggest relaunching your Finder. > This has been happening for a couple of days now. So the machine has been restarted numerous times. Any other ideas? Jeff From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 13 11:44:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <184D7746-15F9-11D8-BB04-000A95A50218@mac.com> References: <184D7746-15F9-11D8-BB04-000A95A50218@mac.com> Message-ID: On 13 Nov 2003, at 16:47, Suraj Rai wrote: > I think Apple should talk to these guys about their software. They > should have a small group who advise companies on how to write proper > Mac OS X software. It would be in the best interest of Apple to do > this no? UM, Apple Developer Relations. If the dicks don't ask, how else are Apple to do anything? From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Nov 13 11:47:11 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031113, 14:09 -0500, they whom i call Steve Sobek wrote: >Maybe I've missed something, and I'm not enough of an iGeek to know >about future changes to OS X, but when I save a file with the same >name but different case in Panther, it won't replace it. ?? > >http://www.igeek.com/articles/Interface/CaseSensitiveFileNames.txt i didn't read the article, but there is now an option for case-sensitive behavior in HFS+.. i believe it is off by default -- steve harley From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 13 11:49:19 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Universal Access? In-Reply-To: <56AF9B08-1557-11D8-BAD6-003065D8C728@softhome.net> References: <7F1E2482-154A-11D8-9316-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <56AF9B08-1557-11D8-BAD6-003065D8C728@softhome.net> Message-ID: On 12 Nov 2003, at 21:29, Karl Kuehn wrote: > No... ScreenReaders are very complex pieces of software, and there is > a real lack of them on MacOS X at the moment. The article linked does > a good job of pointing out that this would be a really good place for > Apple to step up to the plate. If a decent ScreenReader were built > into the OS Apple would have a really strong leg up on any other OS > (where the readers cost $800 a seat). Maybe I'm missing something then. OSX will read text under the mouse to me....what else is there. Must go and rummage about and see what a screenreader actually is. M From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 13 11:51:24 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Browse Network In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E71DCF0-1612-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 13 Nov 2003, at 19:20, Jeff Grossman wrote: > Matt wrote: >> >> On 13 Nov 2003, at 15:57, Jeff Grossman wrote: >> >>> I am running OS X 10.3. When I click on the Browse button under >>> Connect To >>> Server, or if I try going into Network Shift-Apple-K from the Go >>> menu, >>> nothing happens. When I first installed 10.3 I was able to click on >>> the >>> Browse button, but now nothing. Is there something I changed? >> >> I suggest relaunching your Finder. >> > This has been happening for a couple of days now. So the machine has > been > restarted numerous times. Any other ideas? I'm seeing exactly the same as you and a relaunch of the Finder fixed it. It's the same sort of stupid intermittent bug that is stopping my keyboard from lighting up right now. M From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 13 11:54:20 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: an unappealing Finder change In-Reply-To: References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <3215C555-15F9-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 13 Nov 2003, at 11:39, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > To deselect any selected file, one must click with the command key > down. Or click below the last file. Or click the parent folder. > -- Don't congratulate yourself too much, or berate yourself either. Your choices are half chance; so are everybody else's. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031113/2a7f2cf2/smime.bin From dave at difference.com.au Thu Nov 13 11:55:09 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:09 PM -0500 13/11/03, Steve Sobek wrote: >Maybe I've missed something, and I'm not enough of an iGeek to know >about future changes to OS X, but when I save a file with the same >name but different case in Panther, it won't replace it. ?? Its an option. You can do it if you want, but its not the default. Basically, if you really need case sensitivity, there is now a better option that UFS. Cheers David From ssobek at stevesobek.net Thu Nov 13 12:00:30 2003 From: ssobek at stevesobek.net (Steve Sobek) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <72E5335A-1613-11D8-BA50-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> Thanks to all who responded. I must have missed that during installation. -S On Nov 13, 2003, at 2:35 PM, steve harley wrote: > i didn't read the article, but there is now an option for > case-sensitive behavior in HFS+.. i believe it is off by > default From larkost at softhome.net Thu Nov 13 12:11:57 2003 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Universal Access? In-Reply-To: References: <7F1E2482-154A-11D8-9316-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <56AF9B08-1557-11D8-BAD6-003065D8C728@softhome.net> Message-ID: <31EF63F9-1615-11D8-9750-003065D8C728@softhome.net> ScreenReaders are for people who are (or nearly) blind. They read information to the user to allow him/her to function with normal program even without that program to be re-written for that class of users. They are very difficult programs to create because most programers do not think about the disabled, and don't leave hints for these programs. They often have libraries of specific settings for applications... My understanding is that Apple has some nice hooks in place for most of the default UI elements, but that even Apple programmers are not diligent in coding for them (much like it is for AppleScript... *sigh*). Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net On Nov 13, 2003, at 2:45 PM, Matt wrote: >> No... ScreenReaders are very complex pieces of software, and there >> is a real lack of them on MacOS X at the moment. The article linked >> does a good job of pointing out that this would be a really good >> place for Apple to step up to the plate. If a decent ScreenReader >> were built into the OS Apple would have a really strong leg up on any >> other OS (where the readers cost $800 a seat). > > Maybe I'm missing something then. > > OSX will read text under the mouse to me....what else is there. > > Must go and rummage about and see what a screenreader actually is. From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 13 12:20:34 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Universal Access? In-Reply-To: <31EF63F9-1615-11D8-9750-003065D8C728@softhome.net> References: <7F1E2482-154A-11D8-9316-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <56AF9B08-1557-11D8-BAD6-003065D8C728@softhome.net> <31EF63F9-1615-11D8-9750-003065D8C728@softhome.net> Message-ID: <0F4408B6-1616-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 13 Nov 2003, at 20:08, Karl Kuehn wrote: > ScreenReaders are for people who are (or nearly) blind. Hi Karl, my Father is Blind. > They read information to the user to allow him/her to function with > normal program even without that program to be re-written for that > class of users. They are very difficult programs to create because > most programers do not think about the disabled, and don't leave hints > for these programs. They often have libraries of specific settings for > applications... > My understanding is that Apple has some nice hooks in place for most > of the default UI elements, but that even Apple programmers are not > diligent in coding for them (much like it is for AppleScript... > *sigh*). I'm just wondering what ele other than what there is...is needed... From kcall at mac.com Thu Nov 13 12:31:02 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: making a USB number pad act like a number pad Message-ID: <45101B68-1617-11D8-AC8A-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> I just got my Kensington USB Number keypad and discovered that it is behaving like the number keys on the Alum17 keyboard as opposed to the number pad on a Pro keyboard. I need number pad Pro keyboard functionality ... anything I can do to trick this thing into thinking it's something else? K From jeff at stikman.com Thu Nov 13 12:37:02 2003 From: jeff at stikman.com (Jeff Grossman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Browse Network References: <3E71DCF0-1612-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: Matt wrote: > > On 13 Nov 2003, at 19:20, Jeff Grossman wrote: > >> Matt wrote: >>> >>> On 13 Nov 2003, at 15:57, Jeff Grossman wrote: >>> >>>> I am running OS X 10.3. When I click on the Browse button under >>>> Connect To >>>> Server, or if I try going into Network Shift-Apple-K from the Go >>>> menu, >>>> nothing happens. When I first installed 10.3 I was able to click on >>>> the >>>> Browse button, but now nothing. Is there something I changed? >>> >>> I suggest relaunching your Finder. >>> >> This has been happening for a couple of days now. So the machine has >> been >> restarted numerous times. Any other ideas? > > I'm seeing exactly the same as you and a relaunch of the Finder fixed > it. > > It's the same sort of stupid intermittent bug that is stopping my > keyboard from lighting up right now. > > M I apologize for the doubt. I just did a relanuch, and you are correct I am now able to click on the Browse button in the Connect To Server window. This will certainly be a pain the for me. I hope they come out with a 10.3.2 to fix this problem soon. Thanks for the help. Jeff From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 13 12:50:06 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Browse Network In-Reply-To: References: <3E71DCF0-1612-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 13 Nov 2003, at 20:23, Jeff Grossman wrote: > Matt wrote: >> >> On 13 Nov 2003, at 19:20, Jeff Grossman wrote: >>> This has been happening for a couple of days now. So the machine has >>> been >>> restarted numerous times. Any other ideas? >> >> I'm seeing exactly the same as you and a relaunch of the Finder fixed >> it. >> >> It's the same sort of stupid intermittent bug that is stopping my >> keyboard from lighting up right now. > > I apologize for the doubt. I just did a relanuch, and you are correct > I > am now able to click on the Browse button in the Connect To Server > window. > This will certainly be a pain the for me. I hope they come out > with a 10.3.2 to fix this problem soon. Well, they will if they get a bug report. From markm at tyrell.com Thu Nov 13 13:04:02 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:09 PM -0500 11/13/03, Steve Sobek wrote: >Maybe I've missed something, and I'm not enough of an iGeek to know >about future changes to OS X, but when I save a file with the same >name but different case in Panther, it won't replace it. ?? > >http://www.igeek.com/articles/Interface/CaseSensitiveFileNames.txt It's just an over-reactive article. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From markm at tyrell.com Thu Nov 13 13:08:07 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 3:25 AM +0800 11/14/03, David Cake wrote: >At 2:09 PM -0500 13/11/03, Steve Sobek wrote: >>Maybe I've missed something, and I'm not enough of an iGeek to know >>about future changes to OS X, but when I save a file with the same >>name but different case in Panther, it won't replace it. ?? > > Its an option. You can do it if you want, but its not the default. > Basically, if you really need case sensitivity, there is now >a better option that UFS. I think the author missed that point and tried to make a mountain out of a molehill. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Nov 13 13:11:20 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: making a USB number pad act like a number pad In-Reply-To: <45101B68-1617-11D8-AC8A-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> References: <45101B68-1617-11D8-AC8A-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> Message-ID: <4F8BF3FC-161D-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 13, 2003, at 1:23 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > I just got my Kensington USB Number keypad and discovered that it is > behaving like the number keys on the Alum17 keyboard as opposed to the > number pad on a Pro keyboard. I need number pad Pro keyboard > functionality ... anything I can do to trick this thing into thinking > it's something else? > Can you provide more detail? I don't quite understand. What is the Alum17 keyboard and how does it behave differently? Chad From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Thu Nov 13 13:19:02 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: <12F226E4-161F-11D8-9C78-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 13, 2003, at 3:32 AM, Matt wrote: > [2] HP's All-in-one products had TERRIBLE software and HP was sending > out feelers last year to try and find someone to write a new batch, > Carbon, for OSX and OS9. They had a hard time finding anyone because > eventually it landed at my doorstep. This is stunning. With massive tech unemployment now, HP didn't have developers pounding down their door for this job? Something seems fishy here. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 598 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031113/558bae05/attachment.bin From kcall at mac.com Thu Nov 13 13:25:01 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: making a USB number pad act like a number pad In-Reply-To: <4F8BF3FC-161D-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <45101B68-1617-11D8-AC8A-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> <4F8BF3FC-161D-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On Nov 13, 2003, at 1:06 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > On Nov 13, 2003, at 1:23 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> I just got my Kensington USB Number keypad and discovered that it is >> behaving like the number keys on the Alum17 keyboard as opposed to >> the number pad on a Pro keyboard. I need number pad Pro keyboard >> functionality ... anything I can do to trick this thing into >> thinking it's something else? >> > > Can you provide more detail? I don't quite understand. What is the > Alum17 keyboard and how does it behave differently? Basically, Sibelius scoring program maps the number keys on the keyboard to a set of functions and behavior that differs from what's mapped to the number keypad you get on a Pro keyboard. The Alum17 doesn't have a separate number keypad. This means i have to resort to a virtual keypad on screen .. which I hate to do .. since Sibelius allows me to create music scores with little or no mouse. Right now, I'm grabbing the mouse to access the virtual keypad all the time. I thought I could buy an external number keypad that would function like the number keypad you get on a Pro keyboard, but instead, the ext. behaves like the powerbooks number keys on the keyboard. When I was using my Pismo, i bought an Apple Pro keyboard just for the number keypad .. but with the new Alum, i'd like less clutter .. AND I prefer the Alum keyboard feel over the Apple Pro keyboard. K > > Chad > From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Nov 13 13:28:09 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: making a USB number pad act like a number pad In-Reply-To: References: <45101B68-1617-11D8-AC8A-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> <4F8BF3FC-161D-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <3B374860-1620-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 13, 2003, at 2:24 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > I thought I could buy an external number keypad that would function > like the number keypad you get on a Pro keyboard, but instead, the > ext. behaves like the powerbooks number keys on the keyboard. > > When I was using my Pismo, i bought an Apple Pro keyboard just for the > number keypad .. but with the new Alum, i'd like less clutter .. AND I > prefer the Alum keyboard feel over the Apple Pro keyboard. > Oh, Alum17 is a PB Al 17. OK. Does the "num lock" help at all? (either off or on)? Can you put in a different keyboard layout file? (google and the archives should show how to create a keymapping file)? Chad From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 13 13:49:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <12F226E4-161F-11D8-9C78-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <12F226E4-161F-11D8-9C78-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <51FD0F66-1622-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 13 Nov 2003, at 21:19, Jim Rankin wrote: > > On Nov 13, 2003, at 3:32 AM, Matt wrote: > >> [2] HP's All-in-one products had TERRIBLE software and HP was sending >> out feelers last year to try and find someone to write a new batch, >> Carbon, for OSX and OS9. They had a hard time finding anyone because >> eventually it landed at my doorstep. > > This is stunning. With massive tech unemployment now, HP didn't have > developers pounding down their door for this job? Something seems > fishy here. I think it may have been something to do with a) hefty grants from our government for companies doing software development. b) we're cheaper than youse americans anyway It is frankly incredible though. The guy in contact with me tried to hide the fact it was HP but, heh, provided a Word document. It revealed all. Hey, I wonder if reading a Word document with a text editor counts as a DMCA breach? M From kcall at mac.com Thu Nov 13 13:52:11 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: making a USB number pad act like a number pad In-Reply-To: <3B374860-1620-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <45101B68-1617-11D8-AC8A-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> <4F8BF3FC-161D-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> <3B374860-1620-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <5DCFFE90-1623-11D8-A41A-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> On Nov 13, 2003, at 1:27 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > On Nov 13, 2003, at 2:24 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > >> I thought I could buy an external number keypad that would function >> like the number keypad you get on a Pro keyboard, but instead, the >> ext. behaves like the powerbooks number keys on the keyboard. >> >> When I was using my Pismo, i bought an Apple Pro keyboard just for >> the number keypad .. but with the new Alum, i'd like less clutter .. >> AND I prefer the Alum keyboard feel over the Apple Pro keyboard. >> > > Oh, Alum17 is a PB Al 17. OK. > > Does the "num lock" help at all? (either off or on)? with it on, it acts like the numbers on the keyboard with it off, it does things like PAGE UP , cursor over etc > > Can you put in a different keyboard layout file? (google and the > archives should show how to create a keymapping file)? I went to a chat board at Sibelius and found that the Kensington is known to not mimic a number keypad but to mimic the keyboard numbers. Fortunately, there are 5 alternatives. I ordered a Belkin for $21 from MacConnection. Unlike the Kensington with 2 additional UBS 2.0 ports, the Belkin has only a single USB 1.1 port. But, I can live with that until a bluetooth version comes out :-) k > > Chad > From larkost at softhome.net Thu Nov 13 13:57:01 2003 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <51FD0F66-1622-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <12F226E4-161F-11D8-9C78-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <51FD0F66-1622-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <2B9453FA-1624-11D8-9750-003065D8C728@softhome.net> Nope.. there is no attempt at all at any encryption... therefore you can read it without any DMCA worries... now if they had written it in pig-latin.... Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net On Nov 13, 2003, at 4:42 PM, Matt wrote: > It is frankly incredible though. The guy in contact with me tried to > hide the fact it was HP but, heh, provided a Word document. It > revealed all. > > Hey, I wonder if reading a Word document with a text editor counts as > a DMCA breach? From surajrai at mac.com Thu Nov 13 18:35:01 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj K. Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: References: <184D7746-15F9-11D8-BB04-000A95A50218@mac.com> Message-ID: <1068776850.3fb43d92b26fb@raifamily.dyndns.org> Quoting Matt : > > On 13 Nov 2003, at 16:47, Suraj Rai wrote: > > > I think Apple should talk to these guys about their software. They > > should have a small group who advise companies on how to write proper > > Mac OS X software. It would be in the best interest of Apple to do > > this no? > > UM, Apple Developer Relations. > > If the dicks don't ask, how else are Apple to do anything? I was thinking more in terms of Apple being more pro-active with these companies and reaching out to them before they come to Apple. I am sure if they could have a few guys working on aesthetics and performance for these apps, they would be able to do wonders. Applications like Canon's RAW viewer/editor is not very complicated. If Apple could say to Canon ... look your app sucks...let us help you make it better and assign an engineer to work with them for a couple of months...I am sure the application would come out looking and working great. If Apple sets asside say a million dollars a year (for about 5 or 6 engineers) dedicated to this kind of activity it would benifit us all as well as Apple and the vendor in making these apps look and work better. Perhaps I am too naive and the hardware vendors don't really care much about aesthetics or performance on their software apps. I hope I am not right because looking at the Canon S400 you know that they do care about both (maybe just not software). S.r. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 13 19:39:02 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: 'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned In-Reply-To: <7E1F1424-13E3-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <834D69C3-13D2-11D8-BA93-000A958F180A@23x.net> <7E1F1424-13E3-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <52D283D7-1650-11D8-BEBA-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 10 Nov 2003, at 17:19, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > On Nov 10, 2003, at 5:19 PM, Fabien Roy wrote: > >> Also, what is the altitude? Hope that it was less than 6,000 feet. >> This because at higher altitude the air density is not high enough to >> permit the hard drive operation. Hard disk head fly over the disk >> plate surface. > > But at higher than 6000ft. Airplanes are pressurized to around 8000ft > and places in Wyoming are above 6000 ft and computers and hard disks > work fine there. Leadville, CO is over 10,000. I've not heard that HDs stop working in Leadville. Friend of mine lives at 7200 feet and his computers work fine. -- ...gentlemen in England now a-bed Shall think themselves accursed they were not here, -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031113/279106fa/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 13 19:40:53 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <7EA167C2-15AF-11D8-B8D7-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: On 13 Nov 2003, at 00:55, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > On Nov 13, 2003, at 1:00 AM, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: >> On 13 Nov 2003, at 02:17, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: >>> Photoshop CS is brand new and a glowing exception, but even it isn't >>> for everyone >> >> As a quick aside, I need to get Photoshop CS for work but it's too >> damned expensive[1]. So, my manager decided to take a chance and >> bought a 5-pack of Photoshop 5 on ebay for 300 Euros. I registered the >> app with Adobe and am ordering upgrades dirt cheap for a savings of >> several thousand Euros. >> > > I did you one better (but not with Photoshop). Bought a box of Word 3.0 at a Garage Sale for $3 (Mac version, on floppies). Upgraded to 5.0 for, I think, $20. The word 3 had never been registered, so it was a "new" purchase with registration card ncluded. Sent in the registration and the upgrade request in the same envelope. Pretty sure that was the last time I gave any money to MSFT, but damn, Word 5 was a nice program. -- When the stars threw down their spears And watered heaven with their tears, Did He smile his work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031113/197e936b/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 13 19:41:19 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11 Nov 2003, at 10:57, Laubenthal, Neil, CTR, OSD-NII wrote: > UNCLASSIFIED > > There are a couple of gotcha's . . . > > the FW800 bug . . .which may also affect FW400 Does *NOT* affect FW400. > . Supposedly 10.3.1 fixes this. No, 10.3.1 has a minor patch that may help. New firmware is required to fix it (it is a FW800 bug, not a OS X bug) > journaling has caused some problems . . . best for now to > turn it off until it gets fixed. Bull. Have had it on since 10.2 was released. It has never caused a problem. -- No man is free who is not master of himself -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031113/8710cc60/smime.bin From markm at tyrell.com Thu Nov 13 20:19:02 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Hey Ya... Message-ID: This has got to be one of the most creative music videos I've seen in a while. http://www.artistdirect.com/video/player/frame/0,,2761158,00.html mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cynik at gmx.co.uk Thu Nov 13 20:23:22 2003 From: cynik at gmx.co.uk (Cyril Niklaus) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 14 nov. 03, at 12:08, Lukreme wrote: > On 11 Nov 2003, at 10:57, Laubenthal, Neil, CTR, OSD-NII wrote: > ' >> journaling has caused some problems . . . best for now to >> turn it off until it gets fixed. > > Bull. Have had it on since 10.2 was released. It has never caused a > problem. Yeah, I've also been using since it was available on several HDs without a problem at all. Where do you get those ideas from? Can you substantiate those claims? Cyril From sstevenson at mac.com Thu Nov 13 20:41:01 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Hey Ya... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 13, 2003, at 8:18 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > This has got to be one of the most creative music videos I've seen in > a while. > > http://www.artistdirect.com/video/player/frame/0,,2761158,00.html Was this intended for macosx-talk? - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From fabienlroy at mac.com Thu Nov 13 20:53:01 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Used journaling on my new iPod, lost everything. I had to put the iPod on direct firewire mode. The iPod would endlessly cycle on data verification after an abrupt disconnect. Fabien. On Nov 13, 2003, at 8:19 PM, Cyril Niklaus wrote: > > On 14 nov. 03, at 12:08, Lukreme wrote: > >> On 11 Nov 2003, at 10:57, Laubenthal, Neil, CTR, OSD-NII wrote: >> ' >>> journaling has caused some problems . . . best for now to >>> turn it off until it gets fixed. >> >> Bull. Have had it on since 10.2 was released. It has never caused a >> problem. > Yeah, I've also been using since it was available on several HDs > without a problem at all. Where do you get those ideas from? Can you > substantiate those claims? > > Cyril > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From steve at paper-ape.com Thu Nov 13 21:03:02 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031113, 20:08 -0700, they whom i call Lukreme wrote: >>journaling has caused some problems . . . best for now to >>turn it off until it gets fixed. > >Bull. Have had it on since 10.2 was released. It has never caused a problem. turns out a lot of those who for some reason were still running Norton SystemWorks were seeing KPs when enabling journaling in 10.3.. we'll probably see a new wave of Norton conflict experiences as the publishing crowd makes the switch to X -- steve harley From mis-jack at syda.org Thu Nov 13 21:12:11 2003 From: mis-jack at syda.org (Jack Stoller (Shekhar)) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Apple Mail and attachments questions In-Reply-To: <200311132008.hADK8GhW025816@slowbro.omnigroup.com> References: <200311132008.hADK8GhW025816@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <0506FD36-1661-11D8-B99D-000393BE3178@syda.org> Johannes, I believe the problem Jeremy is seeing is a different one. The setting I think you are referring to is in Preferences > Viewing and controls whether images are shown in an HTML message. I'm also having a problem where attachments, specifically Word and Excel documents are not in the message. The text is there, the size of the message is large, and viewing the raw source shows the encoded attachment as a MIME part. The weird thing is that later on something happens and suddenly MAIL shows the attachments. I'm still trying to figure out why and will post if I do. Note that my first guess is that it only happens in a message composed in Windows Outlook and transmitted through an Exchange 2000 server. Furthermore, it seems to only affect Word and Excel attachments. The raw source shows the following: ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3AA37.2D32438E Content-Type: application/vnd.ms-excel; name="Shekhar BR List 11-13-03.xls" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: Shekhar BR List 11-13-03.xls Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Shekhar BR List 11-13-03.xls" with lots of encoded gibberish following. The "vnd.ms-excel" in the content type looks suspicious to me. Entourage has no problem seeing the attachment and I'd swear that MAIL suddenly saw it again AFTER I downloaded it with Excel. If anyone else has ideas about this I'd love to hear them. Jack On Nov 13, 2003, at 3:08 PM, macosx-talk-request@omnigroup.com wrote: > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:28:09 +0100 > Subject: Re: Apple Mail and attachments questions > Cc: omnitalk > To: "Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc." > From: Johannes Vetsch > > It happens with jpgs when under "View/View/show as file" (sorry > something like that, in german it's "Darstellung/Darstellung/Reine > Datei) is activated. Set this to "Original Content" and you see the > picture or the file icon as set in the before mentioned Advanced > Settings. > > Hope that helps > regards > johannes > > PS: It only works on received mails > > Am Mittwoch, 12.11.03, um 20:04 Uhr (Europe/Berlin) schrieb Chad Leigh > -- ObjectWerks Inc.: > >> >> On Nov 12, 2003, at 10:28 AM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >> >>> >>> I have a customer that is using Mail.App. Aside from the fact that >>> it seems to be leaving copies of the message on the mailserver, our >>> customer says that when it retrieves email, it gets the text only, >>> and not the attachment. >> >> Is this using POP or IMAP? >> From cwilbur at mac.com Thu Nov 13 21:52:02 2003 From: cwilbur at mac.com (Charlton Wilbur) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: making a USB number pad act like a number pad In-Reply-To: References: <45101B68-1617-11D8-AC8A-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> <4F8BF3FC-161D-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <9232EC06-1666-11D8-96A8-000A9573CF20@mac.com> On Nov 13, 2003, at 3:24 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote: > > On Nov 13, 2003, at 1:06 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > >> Can you provide more detail? I don't quite understand. What is the >> Alum17 keyboard and how does it behave differently? > > Basically, Sibelius scoring program maps the number keys on the > keyboard to a set of functions and behavior that differs from what's > mapped to the number keypad you get on a Pro keyboard. The Alum17 > doesn't have a separate number keypad. This means i have to resort to > a virtual keypad on screen .. which I hate to do .. since Sibelius > allows me to create music scores with little or no mouse. Right now, > I'm grabbing the mouse to access the virtual keypad all the time. I > thought I could buy an external number keypad that would function like > the number keypad you get on a Pro keyboard, but instead, the ext. > behaves like the powerbooks number keys on the keyboard. I use a Targus USB numeric keypad with Sibelius, and it seems to do the right thing. (I haven't had occasion to try it since the upgrade to Panther, however.) Maybe I'm missing what you're complaining about, or the Targus is different. (As an aside -- have you upgraded to Sibelius 3 yet? I haven't yet -- probably not until January when the expense can be charged against another tax year....) Charlton - Charlton Wilbur cwilbur@chromatico.net cwilbur@mac.com From macosxtalk at robburns.com Fri Nov 14 00:08:04 2003 From: macosxtalk at robburns.com (Rob Burns) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: shells and man pages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <953F7230-1679-11D8-B155-000393C43C60@robburns.com> On Nov 10, 2003, at 2:35 PM, William Ehrich wrote: >> > > Thanks, but I'm not looking for a new hobby > >> Or, try BBEdit. You can do MPW like things in it now. > > or a $180 overkill. > > I mostly want to do the occasional chmod or whatever without having to > fight the readline line editor. And compile a little C program from a > makefile without building an entire **PROJECT** . > > One nice thing is that xcode does man pages. Don't have to use > Terminal.app for that. > > For the man pages, try ManOpen. It's very nice. I'd love to see this under Terminal's help menu. __________________________ Robert Burns mailto:rob@robburns.com From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 14 00:14:02 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <1068776850.3fb43d92b26fb@raifamily.dyndns.org> References: <184D7746-15F9-11D8-BB04-000A95A50218@mac.com> <1068776850.3fb43d92b26fb@raifamily.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <67CF31F0-167A-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 14 Nov 2003, at 02:27, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > Quoting Matt : > >> >> On 13 Nov 2003, at 16:47, Suraj Rai wrote: >> >>> I think Apple should talk to these guys about their software. They >>> should have a small group who advise companies on how to write proper >>> Mac OS X software. It would be in the best interest of Apple to do >>> this no? >> >> UM, Apple Developer Relations. >> >> If the dicks don't ask, how else are Apple to do anything? > > I was thinking more in terms of Apple being more pro-active with these > companies > and reaching out to them before they come to Apple. I am sure if they > could > have a few guys working on aesthetics and performance for these apps, > they > would be able to do wonders. A I know what you mean - but how is Apple meant to know? And I'm not even taking into account confidentiality clauses which can add a complication. From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Fri Nov 14 00:32:01 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <67CF31F0-167A-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: "Matt" wrote: >> I am sure if they could have a few guys working on aesthetics and performance >> for these apps, they would be able to do wonders. > I know what you mean - but how is Apple meant to know? There's in fact at least one person at Apple {John Geleynse (?), User Experience Evangelist} whose job is to help ISVs with HIG/porting/UX issues; he did a session at the last WWDC. d*g From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Fri Nov 14 00:53:03 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031114085217.GI1441@Dark-Age.local> On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 02:09:54PM -0500, Steve Sobek wrote: : : Maybe I've missed something, and I'm not enough of an iGeek to know : about future changes to OS X, but when I save a file with the same name : but different case in Panther, it won't replace it. ?? : : http://www.igeek.com/articles/Interface/CaseSensitiveFileNames.txt > The most obvious solution would have been to rework their > parts of UNIX to support all the things the Mac needed to stay > a Mac, like good metadata, reasonable directory structure, > better permission and domain system, and so on. They could > have segregated UNIX (BSD) as more UNIX, by building the > equivalent of Classic for BSD. Allowed a parallel directory > structure, or separate partition, with all the UNIX things > mapped the way that it expected (even if they were just > aliases or links to where they should be, instead of where > they've always been in UNIX), and so on. Doing BSD-Classic > would have eliminated most of the ugliness and confusion that > got littered around the Mac, and would have also allowed the > BSD to be cleaner and more standard for the UNIX dweebs. > Instead, the BSD got merged in, in ways that dragged the Mac > backwards, made the BSD less standard, and polluted both > sides. That made it far less Mac-like, and has caused many or > the problems that the Mac Users or some new users, are having > in general. I think the author is on crack. I don't even understand why he chooses to prefix the abbreviation "BSD" with the word "the". It's very weird to read "the BSD" all over the place, as if it's some nasty, genderless monster. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 14 02:54:01 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 13 Nov 2003, at 21:45, steve harley wrote: > at 20031113, 20:08 -0700, they whom i call Lukreme wrote: >>> journaling has caused some problems . . . best for now to >>> turn it off until it gets fixed. >> >> Bull. Have had it on since 10.2 was released. It has never caused a >> problem. > > turns out a lot of those who for some reason were still > running Norton SystemWorks were seeing KPs when enabling > journaling in 10.3.. we'll probably see a new wave of Norton > conflict experiences as the publishing crowd makes the > switch to X Anyone trusting Norton on the mac is a fool. -- It was intended that when Newspeak had been adopted once and for all and Oldspeak forgotten, a heretical thought...should be literally unthinkable, at least so far as thought is dependent on words. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/8b458763/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 14 03:08:11 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 13 Nov 2003, at 21:51, Fabien Roy wrote: > Used journaling on my new iPod, lost everything. "lost" ? And if the iPod doesn't like journaling that really has nothing to do with OX X -- So now you know the words to our song, pretty soon you'll all be singing along, when you're sad, when you're lonely and it all turns out wrong... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/3ef5b068/smime.bin From mic at micmac.com Fri Nov 14 03:38:01 2003 From: mic at micmac.com (Michel Coste) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The author has been a cretin for years. He's especially full of him. Don't expect it to change. On Thursday, November 13, 2003, at 10:03 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 2:09 PM -0500 11/13/03, Steve Sobek wrote: >> Maybe I've missed something, and I'm not enough of an iGeek to know >> about future changes to OS X, but when I save a file with the same >> name but different case in Panther, it won't replace it. ?? >> >> http://www.igeek.com/articles/Interface/CaseSensitiveFileNames.txt > > It's just an over-reactive article. > > mark > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development > > Tyrell Software Corp > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > mc michel coste mic@micmac.com http://www.micmac.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/c39926b5/PGP.bin From macosx at wooz.org Fri Nov 14 04:39:01 2003 From: macosx at wooz.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <51FD0F66-1622-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <12F226E4-161F-11D8-9C78-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <51FD0F66-1622-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <1068813482.990.3.camel@anthem> > >> [2] HP's All-in-one products had TERRIBLE software and HP was sending > >> out feelers last year to try and find someone to write a new batch, > >> Carbon, for OSX and OS9. They had a hard time finding anyone because > >> eventually it landed at my doorstep. BTW, I'm not sure I agree with this specific premise. I have an HP G85 hooked up to my OSX box. It's not the most outstanding piece of software, but I wouldn't call it terrible. The printer drivers work, the HP Director pretty much works, scanning works. The biggest disappointment I have is that I can't share the printer via CUPS. -Barry From johannes at connected.ch Fri Nov 14 05:36:02 2003 From: johannes at connected.ch (Johannes Vetsch) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Apple Mail and attachments questions In-Reply-To: <0506FD36-1661-11D8-B99D-000393BE3178@syda.org> Message-ID: <7A836399-16A7-11D8-9101-000393764C26@connected.ch> On Friday, November 14, 2003, at 06:11 AM, Jack (Shekhar) Stoller wrote: > Johannes, > > I believe the problem Jeremy is seeing is a different one. The setting > I think you are referring to is in Preferences > Viewing and controls > whether images are shown in an HTML message. initial posting was: > it gets the text only, and not the attachment. No I meant the View/Show/Raw Source you are mentioning below (preferences "HTML only" does not the same with attachements). I just remembered that Mail.app and other mail clients showed from time to time especially .jpgs as "plain text" (or raw source, or gibberish) on opening and as you describe below "recompose" somehow after a certain time or sometimes by playing around with "View/Show" option to "Original content". That's how I understood the problem, but maybe what you describe is coming closer to the exact problem. BTW has anybody seen a case where those "Alternative..." menu itemes under View/Show/... are active or knows what they are good for? regards johannes > > I'm also having a problem where attachments, specifically Word and > Excel documents are not in the message. The text is there, the size of > the message is large, and viewing the raw source shows the encoded > attachment as a MIME part. > > The weird thing is that later on something happens and suddenly MAIL > shows the attachments. I'm still trying to figure out why and will > post if I do. Note that my first guess is that it only happens in a > message composed in Windows Outlook and transmitted through an > Exchange 2000 server. Furthermore, it seems to only affect Word and > Excel attachments. The raw source shows the following: > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3AA37.2D32438E > Content-Type: application/vnd.ms-excel; > name="Shekhar BR List 11-13-03.xls" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > Content-Description: Shekhar BR List 11-13-03.xls > Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="Shekhar BR List 11-13-03.xls" > > with lots of encoded gibberish following. The "vnd.ms-excel" in the > content type looks suspicious to me. Entourage has no problem seeing > the attachment and I'd swear that MAIL suddenly saw it again AFTER I > downloaded it with Excel. > > If anyone else has ideas about this I'd love to hear them. > > Jack > > > On Nov 13, 2003, at 3:08 PM, macosx-talk-request@omnigroup.com wrote: > >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:28:09 +0100 >> Subject: Re: Apple Mail and attachments questions >> Cc: omnitalk >> To: "Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc." >> From: Johannes Vetsch >> >> It happens with jpgs when under "View/View/show as file" (sorry >> something like that, in german it's "Darstellung/Darstellung/Reine >> Datei) is activated. Set this to "Original Content" and you see the >> picture or the file icon as set in the before mentioned Advanced >> Settings. >> >> Hope that helps >> regards >> johannes >> >> PS: It only works on received mails >> >> Am Mittwoch, 12.11.03, um 20:04 Uhr (Europe/Berlin) schrieb Chad Leigh >> -- ObjectWerks Inc.: >> >>> >>> On Nov 12, 2003, at 10:28 AM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I have a customer that is using Mail.App. Aside from the fact that >>>> it seems to be leaving copies of the message on the mailserver, our >>>> customer says that when it retrieves email, it gets the text only, >>>> and not the attachment. >>> >>> Is this using POP or IMAP? >>> > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From markm at tyrell.com Fri Nov 14 06:01:04 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Hey Ya... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 8:40 PM -0800 11/13/03, Scott Stevenson wrote: >On Nov 13, 2003, at 8:18 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >>This has got to be one of the most creative music videos I've seen >>in a while. >> >>http://www.artistdirect.com/video/player/frame/0,,2761158,00.html > >Was this intended for macosx-talk? Yes. It plays pretty good in WM9. However, try to make the WM9 window larger or go full screen and WM9 chokes. Roger, no offense... but WM9 sux hard on Mac OS X. It plays back nicely when you don't touch it. However, if you manipulate the app's window a big, it looses it. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Nov 14 06:47:02 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: <20031114085217.GI1441@Dark-Age.local> References: <20031114085217.GI1441@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <4269A24C-16B1-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:52 AM, Eugene Lee wrote: > It's very weird > to read "the BSD" all over the place, as if it's some nasty, genderless > monster. > Would you have preferred some large sexed[1] monster? :-) Chad [1] gender is a grammatical term From killirien at hotmail.com Fri Nov 14 06:50:55 2003 From: killirien at hotmail.com (Dave Kelly) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Where is Cecila Zhang? Message-ID: http://www.ceciliazhang.org Help please. For some reason this story has captured my attention over the last little while leading to some sleepless nights. I am on a personal campaign to find this little girl and return her to her parents by December 25th of this year at the latest. My current thought is to create an "Amber Badge" program and attach it to multiple websites throughout the net to get the word out on the childs disappearance and get the media (world wide) to increase it's focus on the story. The badge will link back to the website above so that any tips can be relayed back to the childs parents and ultimately the authorities. You can also filter any info through America's Most Wanted hotline (1-800-CRIME-TV) or Crime Stoppers (1-800-222-TIPS). More info, links to the case can be found here or just Google Cecilia Zhang. Re: The badge I am also looking for someone to design the badge. I have ideas on how it should look and what info it should contain but I need designers to help if they can. Just send an email to killirien@hotmail.com and I will let you know what I'm thinking. Thank you and enjoy your day. killirien (kee - lee - rien) _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca From mstearne at entermix.com Fri Nov 14 07:02:03 2003 From: mstearne at entermix.com (Michael Stearne) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Hey Ya... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A31909A-16B3-11D8-BC1E-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:00 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 8:40 PM -0800 11/13/03, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> On Nov 13, 2003, at 8:18 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: >> >>> This has got to be one of the most creative music videos I've seen >>> in a while. >>> >>> http://www.artistdirect.com/video/player/frame/0,,2761158,00.html >> >> Was this intended for macosx-talk? > > Yes. > > It plays pretty good in WM9. > > However, try to make the WM9 window larger or go full screen and WM9 > chokes. > I didn't try it in WMP9 but Real Player looked pretty good. Michael From jeff at stikman.com Fri Nov 14 07:32:16 2003 From: jeff at stikman.com (Jeff Grossman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Browse Network References: <3E71DCF0-1612-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: Matt wrote: > > On 13 Nov 2003, at 20:23, Jeff Grossman wrote: > >> Matt wrote: >>> >>> On 13 Nov 2003, at 19:20, Jeff Grossman wrote: >>>> This has been happening for a couple of days now. So the machine has >>>> been >>>> restarted numerous times. Any other ideas? >>> >>> I'm seeing exactly the same as you and a relaunch of the Finder fixed >>> it. >>> >>> It's the same sort of stupid intermittent bug that is stopping my >>> keyboard from lighting up right now. >> >> I apologize for the doubt. I just did a relanuch, and you are correct >> I >> am now able to click on the Browse button in the Connect To Server >> window. >> This will certainly be a pain the for me. I hope they come out >> with a 10.3.2 to fix this problem soon. > > Well, they will if they get a bug report. They have one now. Jeff From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Fri Nov 14 07:39:34 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: <4269A24C-16B1-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <20031114085217.GI1441@Dark-Age.local> <4269A24C-16B1-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <20031114153810.GC6152@Dark-Age.local> On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 07:45:58AM -0700, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: : : On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:52 AM, Eugene Lee wrote: : > : >It's very weird to read "the BSD" all over the place, as if it's some : >nasty, genderless monster. : : Would you have preferred some large sexed[1] monster? :-) : : [1] gender is a grammatical term Well, it is widely agreed that BSD among all the Unix flavors has the most sexy mascot. :-) -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From mis-jack at syda.org Fri Nov 14 07:48:01 2003 From: mis-jack at syda.org (Jack Stoller (Shekhar)) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Apple Mail and attachments questions In-Reply-To: <7A836399-16A7-11D8-9101-000393764C26@connected.ch> References: <7A836399-16A7-11D8-9101-000393764C26@connected.ch> Message-ID: I just had my assistant send me 2 messages with Word and Excel attachments, all composed on a WinXP system and going through the Exchange 2000 server. They came in fine. So for now I'm stumped. Jack On Nov 14, 2003, at 8:35 AM, Johannes Vetsch wrote: > > On Friday, November 14, 2003, at 06:11 AM, Jack (Shekhar) Stoller > wrote: > >> Johannes, >> >> I believe the problem Jeremy is seeing is a different one. The >> setting I think you are referring to is in Preferences > Viewing and >> controls whether images are shown in an HTML message. > > initial posting was: > > it gets the text only, and not the attachment. > > No I meant the View/Show/Raw Source you are mentioning below > (preferences "HTML only" does not the same with attachements). I just > remembered that Mail.app and other mail clients showed from time to > time especially .jpgs as "plain text" (or raw source, or gibberish) on > opening and as you describe below "recompose" somehow after a certain > time or sometimes by playing around with "View/Show" option to > "Original content". > > That's how I understood the problem, but maybe what you describe is > coming closer to the exact problem. > > BTW has anybody seen a case where those "Alternative..." menu itemes > under View/Show/... are active or knows what they are good for? > > regards > johannes > >> >> I'm also having a problem where attachments, specifically Word and >> Excel documents are not in the message. The text is there, the size >> of the message is large, and viewing the raw source shows the encoded >> attachment as a MIME part. >> >> The weird thing is that later on something happens and suddenly MAIL >> shows the attachments. I'm still trying to figure out why and will >> post if I do. Note that my first guess is that it only happens in a >> message composed in Windows Outlook and transmitted through an >> Exchange 2000 server. Furthermore, it seems to only affect Word and >> Excel attachments. The raw source shows the following: >> >> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3AA37.2D32438E >> Content-Type: application/vnd.ms-excel; >> name="Shekhar BR List 11-13-03.xls" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 >> Content-Description: Shekhar BR List 11-13-03.xls >> Content-Disposition: attachment; >> filename="Shekhar BR List 11-13-03.xls" >> >> with lots of encoded gibberish following. The "vnd.ms-excel" in the >> content type looks suspicious to me. Entourage has no problem seeing >> the attachment and I'd swear that MAIL suddenly saw it again AFTER I >> downloaded it with Excel. >> >> If anyone else has ideas about this I'd love to hear them. >> >> Jack >> >> >> On Nov 13, 2003, at 3:08 PM, macosx-talk-request@omnigroup.com wrote: >> >>> >>> Message: 5 >>> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:28:09 +0100 >>> Subject: Re: Apple Mail and attachments questions >>> Cc: omnitalk >>> To: "Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc." >>> From: Johannes Vetsch >>> >>> It happens with jpgs when under "View/View/show as file" (sorry >>> something like that, in german it's "Darstellung/Darstellung/Reine >>> Datei) is activated. Set this to "Original Content" and you see the >>> picture or the file icon as set in the before mentioned Advanced >>> Settings. >>> >>> Hope that helps >>> regards >>> johannes >>> >>> PS: It only works on received mails >>> >>> Am Mittwoch, 12.11.03, um 20:04 Uhr (Europe/Berlin) schrieb Chad >>> Leigh >>> -- ObjectWerks Inc.: >>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 12, 2003, at 10:28 AM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have a customer that is using Mail.App. Aside from the fact that >>>>> it seems to be leaving copies of the message on the mailserver, our >>>>> customer says that when it retrieves email, it gets the text only, >>>>> and not the attachment. >>>> >>>> Is this using POP or IMAP? >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >> > From rogerhoward at mac.com Fri Nov 14 07:51:17 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Hey Ya... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D338369-16BA-11D8-8300-0003938C8B26@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 6:00 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 8:40 PM -0800 11/13/03, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> On Nov 13, 2003, at 8:18 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: >> >>> This has got to be one of the most creative music videos I've seen >>> in a while. >>> >>> http://www.artistdirect.com/video/player/frame/0,,2761158,00.html >> >> Was this intended for macosx-talk? > > Yes. > > It plays pretty good in WM9. > > However, try to make the WM9 window larger or go full screen and WM9 > chokes. > > Roger, no offense... but WM9 sux hard on Mac OS X. Why would I be offended? I didn't write the damn thing... I'm only impressed with the core codecs, and the implementation on Windows - there's a lot missing in the Mac OSX version, it's just a dumb simple player that skips i-frames whenever you do much of anything. -R From steve at paper-ape.com Fri Nov 14 08:29:08 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031114, 03:53 -0700, they whom i call Lukreme wrote: >Anyone trusting Norton on the mac is a fool. that was essentially my point -- many of the now-migrating publishing users are, not coincidentally, followers of primitive religions.. as a result, we'll see an influx to the Mac OS X user community of Norton faithful and voodoo practitioners.. i think its useful to be prepared for them -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Fri Nov 14 08:31:06 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: <20031114085217.GI1441@Dark-Age.local> References: <20031114085217.GI1441@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: at 20031114, 02:52 -0600, they whom i call Eugene Lee wrote: > It's very weird >to read "the BSD" all over the place, as if it's some nasty, genderless >monster. it's a little nicer as "la BSD" ;?> i similarly eschew "the Dock", "the Finder" etc., but haven't completely untrained myself of "the internet".. however if you sound out "Berkeley System Distribution", "the" does help it signify an entity, rather than an act -- steve harley From dennyrex at earthlink.net Fri Nov 14 08:41:01 2003 From: dennyrex at earthlink.net (Rick Sanford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: upgrade an iMac Message-ID: <314C121B-16C1-11D8-8D7D-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> I have a client (education) with a Rev A iMac. It's (still) running Mac OS 8.1. I've been after them to upgrade for years. They are now ready to do so, it would appear. Question: what experiences have people had or heard about, comparing the performance of a 233 rev A iMac (I think it's got 288MB Ram, and the orig. 4GB drive) with Jaguar as opposed to Panther. I'm a little concerned Panther might not load (there might be less than 3GB free) and it would be difficult to do anything other than a straight upgrade (no archive, no backup). With a custom install removing some languages and some printer drivers, can you get the disk requirements down much? We used to have to do this to install NeXTstep on the 105MB drives.... ;-) I'd rather go for Panther of course all things being equal, but if Jaguar is a better fit for an older iMac, then that's an option. I've got a 233 Beige in the office here with jaguar on it and I am familiar to the performance I get there, as a base point. Thanks to any advice or anecdotes. -rick -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DentalLogoTooth_tiny_alpha.tiff Type: image/tiff Size: 530 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/b3ba29ce/DentalLogoTooth_tiny_alpha.tiff -------------- next part -------------- Dental Records? www.dentalrecords.com From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Fri Nov 14 08:57:03 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: upgrade an iMac In-Reply-To: <314C121B-16C1-11D8-8D7D-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> References: <314C121B-16C1-11D8-8D7D-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <9DC58C7C-16C3-11D8-9C78-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 11:40 AM, Rick Sanford wrote: > With a custom install removing some languages and some printer > drivers, can you get the disk requirements down much? I'd be quite impressed if you got this to work. And I would also want to know how you did it, as I have a Tangerine iMac with MacOS 9 not doing much right now :). -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 495 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/e501e24b/attachment.bin From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 14 09:51:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther Message-ID: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> A leading Windows expert has dismissed Mac OS X as offering "nothing in the way of usability advancements over previous desktop operating systems". Windows apologist Paul Thurrott has written several books about Microsoft operating systems. His statements are contained in a selection of answers to frequently asked questions about Microsoft's next significant operating system release, Longhorn, which will reportedly ship in 2005 or 2006. "Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface are far superior to anything in Mac OS X. In the future, Longhorn will further distance Windows from OS X. From a graphical standpoint, there won't be any comparison. As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 conference, Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther." http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=7283 http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/longhorn.asp -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From ssobek at stevesobek.net Fri Nov 14 10:05:52 2003 From: ssobek at stevesobek.net (Steve Sobek) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn Message-ID: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/longhorn.asp "The basic problem with Mac OS X isn't going away: It's a classic desktop operating system that doesn't offer anything in the way of usability advancements over previous desktop operating systems. Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface are far superior to anything in Mac OS X. In the future, Longhorn will further distance Windows from OS X. From a graphical standpoint, there won't be any comparison. As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 conference, Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther." He offers no proof or details on why -- or how -- this is so. And doesn't take into account that OS X will likely see another version or two before Longhorn actually ships... Thoughts? -Steve Sobek From dennyrex at earthlink.net Fri Nov 14 10:09:31 2003 From: dennyrex at earthlink.net (Rick Sanford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Friday, November 14, 2003, at 12:50 PM, Matt wrote: > A leading Windows expert has dismissed Mac OS X as offering "nothing > in the way of usability advancements over previous desktop operating > systems". > > Windows apologist Paul Thurrott has written several books about > Microsoft operating systems. His statements are contained in a > selection of answers to frequently asked questions about Microsoft's > next significant operating system release, Longhorn, which will > reportedly ship in 2005 or 2006. > > "Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface are far superior to > anything in Mac OS X. In the future, Longhorn will further distance > Windows from OS X. From a graphical standpoint, there won't be any > comparison. As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 conference, Longhorn > is far more impressive technically than Panther." > > http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=7283 > > http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/longhorn.asp > -- > Northern Ireland Mac User Group > http://www.nimug.org/ they (MS) are also promoting the future of a OS imbedded Flash killer[1]; they are doing what they've always done. pre-announce, under-deliver. make people afraid to move. sit and wait for what's coming to you. -r [1] From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Fri Nov 14 10:15:56 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Macs are up, PCs down, according to RIT's "The Changing World of Professional Photography" In-Reply-To: <1068813482.990.3.camel@anthem> Message-ID: On 11/14/03 4:38 AM, "Barry Warsaw" wrote: >>>> [2] HP's All-in-one products had TERRIBLE software and HP was sending >>>> out feelers last year to try and find someone to write a new batch, >>>> Carbon, for OSX and OS9. They had a hard time finding anyone because >>>> eventually it landed at my doorstep. > > BTW, I'm not sure I agree with this specific premise. I have an HP G85 > hooked up to my OSX box. It's not the most outstanding piece of > software, but I wouldn't call it terrible. The printer drivers work, > the HP Director pretty much works, scanning works. The biggest > disappointment I have is that I can't share the printer via CUPS. I have the same printer, and my biggest complaint is how much CPU time the background helper app eats up. Dan From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Fri Nov 14 10:33:31 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> Message-ID: <8E47A1FF-16D0-11D8-9066-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> On Nov 14, 2003, at 17:59, Steve Sobek wrote: > "Windows XP ['s] task-based interface are Utter crap. > Thoughts? No, just gut wrenching reactions. Stefano From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Fri Nov 14 10:37:03 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Anderson on Switch Message-ID: Nevertheless, [Fred] Anderson admitted they have not been very successful in converting PC users. ?There has been no real marketing effort and poor distribution, and now we?re making changes to address that,? he said. Apple CFO lectures about company's marketing methods d*g From fabienlroy at mac.com Fri Nov 14 10:39:11 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Considering that the iPod _IS_ also a Mac OS X HFS FireWire storage... How this had nothing to do with Mac OS X. You try to use journaling because the iPod has much more chances to be disconnected without unmounting and you want it to be protected from corruption. I ma not complaining, I am just stating a fact that IFAIK on _MY_ iPod journaling may make you lose data. I just need to remember how to file a bug :-) Fabien On Nov 14, 2003, at 3:03 AM, Lukreme wrote: > On 13 Nov 2003, at 21:51, Fabien Roy wrote: >> Used journaling on my new iPod, lost everything. > > "lost" ? > > And if the iPod doesn't like journaling that really has nothing to do > with OX X > > -- > So now you know the words to our song, pretty soon you'll all be > singing along, when you're sad, when you're lonely and it all turns > out wrong... From robertlaferla at comcast.net Fri Nov 14 10:42:17 2003 From: robertlaferla at comcast.net (robertlaferla@comcast.net) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Muting startup sound w/o muting CD volume, etc... Message-ID: <111420031840.1441.63eb@comcast.net> How can I mute the startup sound without muting the volume when I am logged into my account? The startup sound is so loud that it not only annoys me but everyone in my office. I could put a headphone in the jack but I am looking for a default/preference that I can set to disable it and only it. I have a G4 running Panther 10.3. Thanks. From ssobek at stevesobek.net Fri Nov 14 10:45:02 2003 From: ssobek at stevesobek.net (Steve Sobek) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: Get outta my head. I just sent same link to the list at about the same time...To the list, feel free to choose whichever thread you prefer, or whichever is easiest to get to ... No feelings will be hurt. :-) -S On Nov 14, 2003, at 12:50 PM, Matt wrote: > A leading Windows expert has dismissed Mac OS X as offering "nothing > in the way of usability advancements over previous desktop operating > systems". > From robertlaferla at comcast.net Fri Nov 14 10:47:15 2003 From: robertlaferla at comcast.net (robertlaferla@comcast.net) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Auto mounting a network directory? Message-ID: <111420031842.9390.1a98@comcast.net> What is the preferred way to automatically mount a network directory everytime the system starts? I suppose I could edit NetInfo mounts or fstab but shouldn't there be an application to do this? Thanks. From mmalc_lists at mac.com Fri Nov 14 10:51:32 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> Message-ID: <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:59 AM, Steve Sobek wrote: > He offers no proof or details on why -- or how -- this is so. And > doesn't take into account that OS X will likely see another version or > two before Longhorn actually ships... > Thoughts? > His main issue here seems to be with the desktop metaphor, and the new "Activity Centers" that Longhorn promises (although note that they were originally slated for Windows ME...): "Activity Centers are single-window applications, written in a combination of HTML and the Win32 API, that facilitate easy ways to complete common tasks (Figure). They are designed primarily for new and inexperienced users. Activity Centers facilitate the completion of common, infrequently repeated tasks, a design goal that may confuse some. The theory here is that if is task is repeated infrequently, then the user will need to relearn the steps needed to complete that task every single time they attempt to perform that task. So an Activity Center should present a simple, clear user interface that will help the user quickly complete specific tasks without going through this relearning process. Tasks that are repeated frequently, however, are not appropriate for Activity Centers because these new user interface elements stress simplicity and discoverability over efficiency." From this description I'm not sure just how much Mac OS X has to learn? I think most of the panels etc. already "present a simple, clear user interface that will help the user quickly complete specific tasks". That's not to say, however, that things cannot be improved, and it would be wrong to dismiss, in quite the same cavalier fashion as Thurrott appears to Mac OS X as a whole, the possibility that anything can be learned from this. That said, he also claims, "As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 conference, Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther." That I have rather more difficulty swallowing... mmalc From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Fri Nov 14 10:56:05 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Rick Sanford" wrote: > they (MS) are also promoting the future of a OS imbedded Flash > killer[1]; they are doing what they've always done. pre-announce, > under-deliver. Nobody knows what they will deliver in this area. But they acquired Creature House's Expression 3, presumably to integrate with Sparkle. Skeletal strokes in Expression are really remarkable stuff. A good interactive UI builder integrated with .NET framework runtime and perhaps accelerated via DirectX GDI is nothing to snicker at. Well, you'll always have your QuickTime sprites. :) d*g From mmalc_lists at mac.com Fri Nov 14 11:13:05 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:25 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <70E5873F-16D6-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 10:55 AM, Dan Gaters wrote: > A good interactive UI builder integrated with .NET framework runtime > and perhaps accelerated via DirectX GDI is nothing to snicker at. In what ways would that surpass what is already available with Apple's Interface Builder, WebServices etc. frameworks, and Quartz? mmalc From michael-winter at uiowa.edu Fri Nov 14 11:32:02 2003 From: michael-winter at uiowa.edu (Michael Winter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <2AA2E862-16D9-11D8-BA87-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> On Nov 14, 2003, at 12:48 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > His main issue here seems to be with the desktop metaphor, and the new > "Activity Centers" that Longhorn promises (although note that they > were originally slated for Windows ME...): And as far as I can tell (based on the screenshots), it looks like MS has invented iPhoto, iTunes and a few others (or will have invented in a couple years). Except MS uses a lot of empty space and words ("Create a Slideshow" under the "Try something new" heading) instead of named icons (Icon depicting two slides, withe the title "Slideshow"). Is there something more to this than I'm seeing? -Mike From lomion at mac.com Fri Nov 14 11:51:03 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:48 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > > > "Activity Centers are single-window applications, written in a > combination of HTML and the Win32 API, that facilitate easy ways to > complete common tasks (Figure). They are designed primarily for new > and inexperienced users. Activity Centers facilitate the completion of > common, infrequently repeated tasks, a design goal that may confuse > some. The theory here is that if is task is repeated infrequently, > then the user will need to relearn the steps needed to complete that > task every single time they attempt to perform that task. So an > Activity Center should present a simple, clear user interface that > will help the user quickly complete specific tasks without going > through this relearning process. Tasks that are repeated frequently, > however, are not appropriate for Activity Centers because these new > user interface elements stress simplicity and discoverability over > efficiency." > > From this description I'm not sure just how much Mac OS X has to > learn? I think most of the panels etc. already "present a simple, > clear user interface that will help the user quickly complete specific > tasks". That's not to say, however, that things cannot be improved, > and it would be wrong to dismiss, in quite the same cavalier fashion > as Thurrott appears to Mac OS X as a whole, the possibility that > anything can be learned from this. > I read this also as something Konfabulator can do as well, and does. > That said, he also claims, "As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 > conference, Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther." > That I have rather more difficulty swallowing... > Hyperbole and ignorant ranting never hurt before, why should it now? What is funny basically everything mentioned there as a new feature exists already in OS X. --Larry From lomion at mac.com Fri Nov 14 11:54:35 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20B4A2F4-16DC-11D8-BA6C-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 13, 2003, at 2:35 PM, steve harley wrote: > at 20031113, 14:09 -0500, they whom i call Steve Sobek wrote: >> Maybe I've missed something, and I'm not enough of an iGeek to know >> about future changes to OS X, but when I save a file with the same >> name but different case in Panther, it won't replace it. ?? >> >> http://www.igeek.com/articles/Interface/CaseSensitiveFileNames.txt > > i didn't read the article, but there is now an option for > case-sensitive behavior in HFS+.. i believe it is off by > default > Yes it is off by default. And a Case Sensitive FS is not a leap backwards. In some areas that feature is desired. > -- > steve harley > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From lomion at mac.com Fri Nov 14 11:58:09 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: References: <20031114085217.GI1441@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <723347E4-16DC-11D8-BA6C-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 11:26 AM, steve harley wrote: > at 20031114, 02:52 -0600, they whom i call Eugene Lee wrote: >> It's very weird >> to read "the BSD" all over the place, as if it's some nasty, >> genderless >> monster. > > it's a little nicer as "la BSD" ;?> > > i similarly eschew "the Dock", "the Finder" etc., but > haven't completely untrained myself of "the internet".. > however if you sound out "Berkeley System Distribution", > "the" does help it signify an entity, rather than an act > Then it would be the BSDs. That is the standard way of talking about the various BSD unices. BSD is a style of unix, there is no BSD UNIX anymore, except in a historical context really. --Larry From lomion at mac.com Fri Nov 14 12:02:33 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <826880A4-16DC-11D8-BA6C-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 13, 2003, at 2:25 PM, David Cake wrote: > At 2:09 PM -0500 13/11/03, Steve Sobek wrote: >> Maybe I've missed something, and I'm not enough of an iGeek to know >> about future changes to OS X, but when I save a file with the same >> name but different case in Panther, it won't replace it. ?? > > Its an option. You can do it if you want, but its not the default. > Basically, if you really need case sensitivity, there is now a better > option that UFS. Anything is better than UFS under OS X. Sad but true. --Larry From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Fri Nov 14 12:05:08 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <2AA2E862-16D9-11D8-BA87-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <2AA2E862-16D9-11D8-BA87-0003937E4B50@uiowa.edu> Message-ID: <39533AA2-16DD-11D8-9C78-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 2:31 PM, Michael Winter wrote: > Is there something more to this than I'm seeing? Probably less. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 279 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/1bfa962a/attachment.bin From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Fri Nov 14 12:24:38 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <3C6BEE5B-16E0-11D8-9C78-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:48 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > "Activity Centers are single-window applications, written in a > combination of HTML and the Win32 API, that facilitate easy ways to > complete common tasks (Figure). They are designed primarily for new > and inexperienced users. Activity Centers facilitate the completion of > common, infrequently repeated tasks, a design goal that may confuse > some. The theory here is that if is task is repeated infrequently, > then the user will need to relearn the steps needed to complete that > task every single time they attempt to perform that task. So an > Activity Center should present a simple, clear user interface that > will help the user quickly complete specific tasks without going > through this relearning process. Tasks that are repeated frequently, > however, are not appropriate for Activity Centers because these new > user interface elements stress simplicity and discoverability over > efficiency." > So once again, they think they need to "dumb down" the interface. Less direct manipulation. More "It looks like you want to listen to music. Do you want to ...?" instead of a button with a Play arrow on it. Microsoft Bob, Clippy, now Activity Centers. My favorite is "Browse the Web" with subheading "See what's out there". http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/ac_preview_04_activewin.gif Uh, it's two-thousand-frickin'-three (2006, maybe, when Longhorn ships). Aboriginal, stone age tribesmen know the meaning of "Browse the Web"! You don't need to explain what this means! "Do you want to: Write a letter Type a bunch of words in a sequence that constitute a message to a friend or acquaintance" Also, as a design principle, where are these "new and inexperienced" users? How many people in developed countries will there be in 2006 that aren't already browsing the web, sending email, chatting on IM, syncing their cell phone address book and iPod, etc. etc. And how many people in undeveloped countries will be able to afford a PC running Longhorn? Why not make a "simple, clear user interface" for ALL your users, instead of a dumbed down, restricted, unusable interface for the mythical "new, inexperienced" user, and a bloated, opaque, unusable interface for the "power user". (Btw, I bet if you did a survey over 3/4 of all users would consider themselves "power users".) I think the next three years will be a lot of fun as Apple continues to add features and Microsoft keeps saying "yep, that'll be in Longhorn too, just as soon as it ships, any day now, won't be long, almost there..." Apple gives us Expose, MS gives us this. Sigh, -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2789 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/1bb9d7f4/attachment.bin From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Fri Nov 14 12:36:02 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <2BDAEBD6-16E2-11D8-9C78-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> I'm sorry, but I'm on a bit of a ranting roll right now. Take a look at this: http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/ac_preview_06.gif This is supposed to be a photo media center (*cough* iPhoto *cough*) app. There is a huge text area in the middle, presumably with links to various functions. There's a big 'ol picture of a digital camera taking up much of the right 1/3 of the screen, serving what purpose I have no idea. There's a whole lot of unused black, empty space all around. There's an ample tool bar across the entire top of the window. Then, around the upper left corner, there is what is purportedly the whole point of the application: a scrunched, postage stamp like photo. THIS is Microsoft's idea of an ADVANCED user interface. Next time anyone uses the words "Microsoft" and "usability" together in a sentence, show them this and the discussion will end very quickly. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1043 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/549fb474/attachment.bin From sstevenson at mac.com Fri Nov 14 12:45:05 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Anderson on Switch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5D921F68-16E3-11D8-9A0A-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 10:34 AM, Dan Gaters wrote: > Apple CFO lectures about company's marketing methods > 3fb478a3ecd94> "Seven years since its pitfall, Apple is again a strong industry competitor, introducing new products each year. Apple is now the nation?s No. 6 computer maker, with 3.48-percent market share" "Apple has reversed its slump through new retail outlets and a larger advertising campaign." - Scott From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 14 13:07:17 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <77068BA4-16E6-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 14 Nov 2003, at 18:48, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > His main issue here seems to be with the desktop metaphor, and the new > "Activity Centers" that Longhorn promises (although note that they > were originally slated for Windows ME...): Well, as a wintel apologist he's caught, hook, line and sinker in the Wizards method of doing things. Not even the Windows method - the Wizards method. Everything is done through Wizards. It's frankly unbelieveable. It's like there's no way to actually manually do anything. From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 14 13:12:13 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: What is he talking about? In-Reply-To: <20B4A2F4-16DC-11D8-BA6C-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <20B4A2F4-16DC-11D8-BA6C-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: On 14 Nov 2003, at 19:52, Lawrence Sica wrote: > Yes it is off by default. And a Case Sensitive FS is not a leap > backwards. In some areas that feature is desired. That would be Delaware, Poughkeepsie and Boris-in-Ossory. M -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From thomasv at mac.com Fri Nov 14 13:17:07 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:50 AM, Matt wrote about some guy: > A leading Windows expert has dismissed Mac OS X as offering "nothing > in the way of usability advancements over previous desktop operating > systems". I do consider Windows XP interface greatly enhanced over previous windows interfaces. But the layout of the Windows file system is a complete DOS inherited mess, which contributes unneeded complexity. I think most people would agree with that statement. > > Windows apologist Paul Thurrott has written several books about > Microsoft operating systems. His statements are contained in a > selection of answers to frequently asked questions about Microsoft's > next significant operating system release, Longhorn, which will > reportedly ship in 2005 or 2006. How much money does he make writing books for MS? > > > "Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface are far superior to > anything in Mac OS X. In the future, Longhorn will further distance > Windows from OS X. From a graphical standpoint, there won't be any > comparison. As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 conference, Longhorn > is far more impressive technically than Panther." I think we need to consider that Longhorn may be "technically superior" in some ways to Mac OS X 10.3.1 . But LongHorn is a couple of years away, and Apple will not be sitting on its lower quadrant. Apple will though need to have a answer to the Yukon based file system that MS is working on. I can say a lot of things, but doesn't mean they will happen. How long were Win2K and Win95 delayed for? Cheers, Tom From ian at SKYLIST.net Fri Nov 14 13:25:03 2003 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 14, 2003, at 3:11 PM, Thomas Vincent wrote: >> "Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface are far superior to >> anything in Mac OS X. In the future, Longhorn will further distance >> Windows from OS X. From a graphical standpoint, there won't be any >> comparison. As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 conference, >> Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther." > > I think we need to consider that Longhorn may be "technically > superior" in some ways to Mac OS X 10.3.1 . But LongHorn is a couple > of years away, and Apple will not be sitting on its lower quadrant. > Apple will though need to have a answer to the Yukon based file system > that MS is working on. In what ways? The only thing I can think of that sounds really technically superior is the database filesystem, but they've announced that in the past and haven't shipped it yet. I'll believe it when I see it. Ian From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 14 13:30:31 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 14 Nov 2003, at 21:11, Thomas Vincent wrote: > On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:50 AM, Matt wrote about some guy: > >> A leading Windows expert has dismissed Mac OS X as offering "nothing >> in the way of usability advancements over previous desktop operating >> systems". > > I do consider Windows XP interface greatly enhanced over previous > windows interfaces. But the layout of the Windows file system is a > complete DOS inherited mess, which contributes unneeded complexity. I > think most people would agree with that statement. Well, what's the difference between Apple hiding the smalls in OSX (/usr, /etc, /bin) and Microsoft hiding the innards of the Windows folder... Both are needlessly complex. The real difference is that the smalls in OSX have value for those weird UNIX geek people. >> Windows apologist Paul Thurrott has written several books about >> Microsoft operating systems. His statements are contained in a >> selection of answers to frequently asked questions about Microsoft's >> next significant operating system release, Longhorn, which will >> reportedly ship in 2005 or 2006. > > How much money does he make writing books for MS? Thurrott is relatively famous in his area. The Wintel feebs at Nortel kept effigies of him in their lockers. M From pcoskren at mac.com Fri Nov 14 13:33:24 2003 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <885F9DCD-16E9-11D8-BED7-000A9586BA18@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 4:11 PM, Thomas Vincent wrote: >> "Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface are far superior to >> anything in Mac OS X. In the future, Longhorn will further distance >> Windows from OS X. From a graphical standpoint, there won't be any >> comparison. As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 conference, >> Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther." > > I think we need to consider that Longhorn may be "technically > superior" in some ways to Mac OS X 10.3.1 . But LongHorn is a couple > of years away, and Apple will not be sitting on its lower quadrant. They won't be setting on their shins? ;-) > Apple will though need to have a answer to the Yukon based file system > that MS is working on. Agreed, and I think it's quite likely they're working on something like that. Then again, I'm one of those people who thinks that they're working on a tablet and that's the real reason some apps have a Metal look. Anyway, what does "task-based interface" mean? -Patrick From sstevenson at mac.com Fri Nov 14 13:34:00 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: [Moderator] Re: Where is Cecila Zhang? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92717869-16E9-11D8-9A0A-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 6:49 AM, Dave Kelly wrote: > Help please. For some reason this story has captured my attention > over the last little while leading to some sleepless nights. I am on > a personal campaign to find this little girl and return her to her > parents by December 25th of this year at the latest. My current > thought is to create an "Amber Badge" program and attach it to > multiple websites throughout the net to get the word out on the childs > disappearance and get the media (world wide) to increase it's focus on > the story. The badge will link back to the website above so that any > tips can be relayed back to the childs parents and ultimately the > authorities. You can also filter any info through America's Most > Wanted hotline (1-800-CRIME-TV) or Crime Stoppers (1-800-222-TIPS). I appreciate that your intentions are good, but it's just not practical to discuss this sort of thing here. Thanks, - Scott From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 14 13:39:20 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <885F9DCD-16E9-11D8-BED7-000A9586BA18@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <885F9DCD-16E9-11D8-BED7-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: On 14 Nov 2003, at 21:28, Patrick Coskren wrote: > On Nov 14, 2003, at 4:11 PM, Thomas Vincent wrote: >> Apple will though need to have a answer to the Yukon based file >> system that MS is working on. > > Agreed, and I think it's quite likely they're working on something > like that. Then again, I'm one of those people who thinks that > they're working on a tablet and that's the real reason some apps have > a Metal look. Well, I wish they'd do a second edition of Apple Design picking up where Apple Design left off. Or even one that covered the software more than just the hardware as Apple Design was a hardware geek book. I believe they have worked on a tablet but considering the flop that tablets have turned out to be I think we'll have to wait for a while. > Anyway, what does "task-based interface" mean? Wizard. M From pcoskren at mac.com Fri Nov 14 13:51:03 2003 From: pcoskren at mac.com (Patrick Coskren) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <885F9DCD-16E9-11D8-BED7-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 14, 2003, at 4:37 PM, Matt wrote: > I believe they have worked on a tablet but considering the flop that > tablets have turned out to be I think we'll have to wait for a while. I don't think it's going to be a "Tablet PC" kind of tablet, so I continue to hold out hope. >> Anyway, what does "task-based interface" mean? > > Wizard. Oh, ew. He's saying that's advanced? Make every program so complicated that you need another program to help you use it? Lovely. -Patrick From thomasv at mac.com Fri Nov 14 13:54:01 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: All the integration with that database file system opens up some very interesting possibilities. Especially if they follow through with the idea of exposing a huge portion of the API's via web services. Cheers, Tom On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:24 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > In what ways? The only thing I can think of that sounds really > technically superior is the database filesystem, but they've announced > that in the past and haven't shipped it yet. I'll believe it when I > see it. From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Fri Nov 14 13:56:28 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <77068BA4-16E6-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <77068BA4-16E6-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 14, 2003, at 21:06, Matt wrote: > Everything is done through Wizards. It's frankly unbelieveable. It's > like there's no way to actually manually do anything. It's quite bizarre, in a way. They spent years building features on top of shaky foundations, and now to remedy the resulting complexity they're building dumbed down wizards on top of the bloat. [1][2] Stefano [1] Ok, big generalizations. Let's just say I think it looks like their UI people are trying to make their interfaces look like a web page imitating a magazine. [2] [2] It's a designer's prerogative to be mean. It shows we care. From thomasv at mac.com Fri Nov 14 13:58:51 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <04544616-16ED-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:28 PM, Matt wrote: > Well, what's the difference between Apple hiding the smalls in OSX > (/usr, /etc, /bin) and Microsoft hiding the innards of the Windows > folder... Apple actually hides it, vs. MS which still exposes it to the user with little effort. > > Both are needlessly complex. The real difference is that the smalls in > OSX have value for those weird UNIX geek people. > >>> Windows apologist Paul Thurrott has written several books about >>> Microsoft operating systems. His statements are contained in a >>> selection of answers to frequently asked questions about Microsoft's >>> next significant operating system release, Longhorn, which will >>> reportedly ship in 2005 or 2006. >> >> How much money does he make writing books for MS? > > Thurrott is relatively famous in his area. The Wintel feebs at Nortel > kept effigies of him in their lockers. Exactly, this guy probably gets flown around and paid to talk about WIndows, and is worshiped. Of course he is going to promote the product in such a unbiased fashion. It is the same situation as with the Mac OS 9 web sites who didn't have any idea what to do with Mac OS X. They ragged on it, or ignored it initially. Why, because where do they make there money? From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Fri Nov 14 14:08:35 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Anderson on Switch In-Reply-To: <5D921F68-16E3-11D8-9A0A-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: "Scott Stevenson" wrote: > "Apple has reversed its slump through new retail outlets and a larger > advertising campaign." Yes, and I love Expose, the iPod, Labels and the black Panther box too, but I was focusing on the Switch campaign on this occasion. :) Anyhow, while I'm on an embracing mood, am I the only one who doesn't like the gaudy new chrome Apple logo in Panther? I really like the simplicity of the white or black 2D mono look. d*g From zbir at urbanape.com Fri Nov 14 14:22:21 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Anderson on Switch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <441938D6-16F0-11D8-9FA3-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 5:03 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: > Anyhow, while I'm on an embracing mood, am I the only one who doesn't > like > the gaudy new chrome Apple logo in Panther? I really like the > simplicity of > the white or black 2D mono look. Do you find yourself spending an inordinate amount of time looking at it? To answer your question: I like it just fine, it's the same as the nice chrome Apple logo on my 17" iMac. Zac From rosyna at unsanity.com Fri Nov 14 14:25:53 2003 From: rosyna at unsanity.com (Rosyna) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: In fact, that seems to be the only thing that MS keeps touting. Where is all the other stuff destined for longhorn? More and more it reminds me of Copland and how it failed. Yet, unlike longhorn (in so far), all of it's technologies eventually shipped. Ack, at 11/14/03, Ian Ragsdale said: >In what ways? The only thing I can think of that sounds really >technically superior is the database filesystem, but they've >announced that in the past and haven't shipped it yet. I'll believe >it when I see it. -- Sincerely, Rosyna Keller Technical Support/Holy Knight/Always needs a hug Unsanity: Unsane Tools for Insanely Great People --- Please include any previous correspondence in replies, it helps me remember what we were talking about. Thanks. From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Fri Nov 14 14:28:57 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031114222226.GH6152@Dark-Age.local> On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 10:48:18AM -0800, mmalcolm crawford wrote: : : His main issue here seems to be with the desktop metaphor, and the new : "Activity Centers" that Longhorn promises (although note that they were : originally slated for Windows ME...): : : I wonder what the Slashdot crowd would say about this article... anyone care to send it over? -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Fri Nov 14 14:34:03 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <885F9DCD-16E9-11D8-BED7-000A9586BA18@mac.com> Message-ID: <9D7F9B22-16F2-11D8-AD7D-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> > I don't think it's going to be a "Tablet PC" kind of tablet, so I > continue to hold out hope. Well, hold it there. Meanwhile, get a Etch-a-Sketch, some metallic paint and some silver sticky paper (don't forget the scissors and print out a reversed "alt+g" in the back for the guide). j. From mmalc_lists at mac.com Fri Nov 14 14:45:34 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <70BFE19E-16F3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:24 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: >> I think we need to consider that Longhorn may be "technically >> superior" in some ways to Mac OS X 10.3.1 . [...] > In what ways? Well, Jason seems to think that a "good interactive UI builder integrated with .NET framework runtime and perhaps accelerated via DirectX GDI is nothing to snicker at", however he's declined so far to explain how, as implied, it's superior to Apple's offerings in the same area. A shame, as I'd hoped he might have actually had some useful insight here... mmalc From lomion at mac.com Fri Nov 14 14:59:42 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <114C513D-16F6-11D8-BA6C-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 4:24 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > On Nov 14, 2003, at 3:11 PM, Thomas Vincent wrote: > >>> "Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface are far superior to >>> anything in Mac OS X. In the future, Longhorn will further distance >>> Windows from OS X. From a graphical standpoint, there won't be any >>> comparison. As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 conference, >>> Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther." >> >> I think we need to consider that Longhorn may be "technically >> superior" in some ways to Mac OS X 10.3.1 . But LongHorn is a couple >> of years away, and Apple will not be sitting on its lower quadrant. >> Apple will though need to have a answer to the Yukon based file >> system that MS is working on. > > In what ways? The only thing I can think of that sounds really > technically superior is the database filesystem, but they've announced > that in the past and haven't shipped it yet. I'll believe it when I > see it. > Vaporware doesn't count ;). The FS they are talking about is very similar to what already exists in BeOS's FS. --Larry From lomion at mac.com Fri Nov 14 15:23:02 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <20031114222226.GH6152@Dark-Age.local> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031114222226.GH6152@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <78B12AF9-16F9-11D8-BA6C-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 5:22 PM, Eugene Lee wrote: > On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 10:48:18AM -0800, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > : > : His main issue here seems to be with the desktop metaphor, and the > new > : "Activity Centers" that Longhorn promises (although note that they > were > : originally slated for Windows ME...): > : > : > > I wonder what the Slashdot crowd would say about this article... > anyone care to send it over? > Heh I stopped caring about slashdot ages ago. Most of the posters there are Linux zealots that seem to hate everything non-linux. --Larry From jmelloy at visualdistortion.org Fri Nov 14 17:03:04 2003 From: jmelloy at visualdistortion.org (Jeffrey Melloy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <78B12AF9-16F9-11D8-BA6C-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031114222226.GH6152@Dark-Age.local> <78B12AF9-16F9-11D8-BA6C-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: <3FB57B10.1030809@visualdistortion.org> Lawrence Sica wrote: > > On Nov 14, 2003, at 5:22 PM, Eugene Lee wrote: > >> On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 10:48:18AM -0800, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >> : >> : His main issue here seems to be with the desktop metaphor, and the new >> : "Activity Centers" that Longhorn promises (although note that they >> were >> : originally slated for Windows ME...): >> : >> : >> >> I wonder what the Slashdot crowd would say about this article... >> anyone care to send it over? >> > > Heh I stopped caring about slashdot ages ago. Most of the posters > there are Linux zealots that seem to hate everything non-linux. > > --Larry I just want to see his server slashdotted. Jeff From glennc at mac.com Fri Nov 14 18:08:03 2003 From: glennc at mac.com (Glenn Carnagey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: iPod Updater 1.x and 2.x In-Reply-To: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <40FD2DD6-1710-11D8-9CE1-000393A7795C@mac.com> Speaking of the iPod, I have a question. I have the old 5GB iPod, my son has the newer dockable 10GB. He's using an older iBook which doesn't have firewire, so he logs into my iBook and keeps his library there. The question I have is on the two branches of the updater, 1.x and 2.x. I'm still running 1.x because the release notes for the 2.x updater say it's only compatible with the newer dockable guys, which mine ain't. Does anyone have any experience here, know of any problem with downloading the 2.x updater, and just updating his iPod, and then nuking it? i.e., is there any reason to believe I'll have trouble syncing my older one after installing it. g./ On Nov 13, 2003, at 10:51 PM, Fabien Roy wrote: > Used journaling on my new iPod, lost everything. I had to put the > iPod on direct firewire mode. The iPod would endlessly cycle on data > verification after an abrupt disconnect. > > Fabien. > > On Nov 13, 2003, at 8:19 PM, Cyril Niklaus wrote: > >> >> On 14 nov. 03, at 12:08, Lukreme wrote: >> >>> On 11 Nov 2003, at 10:57, Laubenthal, Neil, CTR, OSD-NII wrote: >>> ' >>>> journaling has caused some problems . . . best for now to >>>> turn it off until it gets fixed. >>> >>> Bull. Have had it on since 10.2 was released. It has never caused >>> a problem. >> Yeah, I've also been using since it was available on several HDs >> without a problem at all. Where do you get those ideas from? Can you >> substantiate those claims? >> >> Cyril >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >> > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From sstevenson at mac.com Fri Nov 14 18:32:01 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 14, 2003, at 10:48 AM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > The theory here is that if is task is repeated infrequently, then the > user will need to relearn the steps needed to complete that task every > single time they attempt to perform that task. So an Activity Center > should present a simple, clear user interface that will help the user > quickly complete specific tasks without going through this relearning > process. This really underlines what appears to be a major difference of philosophy in Mac and Windows software. Windows apps tend to have gobs of UI (tabs, toolbars, menus, etc) and individual functions to activate. To steer through this, the user is provided with a wizard, which I guess has now morphed into an activity center. The Apple philosophy puts more emphasis on simplicity and consistency for the functions that most people will need, allowing the user to dig deeper when they want. Very few Mac OS X apps that I've seen have wizards, but I don't really hear anyone complaining about it. Simplicity at the foundation level means you don't have to cover up the complexity later. In other words, you don't need a new printer wizard when the computer can figure it out for itself. You can really even see this type of thinking at the API level. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From sstevenson at mac.com Fri Nov 14 18:40:01 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <78B12AF9-16F9-11D8-BA6C-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <20031114222226.GH6152@Dark-Age.local> <78B12AF9-16F9-11D8-BA6C-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 14, 2003, at 3:22 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > Heh I stopped caring about slashdot ages ago. Most of the posters > there are Linux zealots that seem to hate everything non-linux. There's been a slow but steady change in attitude since Mac OS X arrived. The criticism tends to be more balanced on average. A lot of converts to Mac OS X, and many of those that prefer Linux at least communicate respect for Apple's work. Of course, there are still the people that don't like Mac OS X because they have the time and interest to build their computer one transistor at a time. :) - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Fri Nov 14 19:04:02 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (James Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Classic used by multiple users with fast-user switching In-Reply-To: <71CA2965-0B05-11D8-BFFD-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi, If I have fast user-switching on, and one user is using Classic, it appears (on my Mac at least) that no other user can start classic (it says that Classic is in use by another user) However, any "normal" application can be started by multiple users without problem. Is this related to the execute permissions assigned to each user for Classic Startup? Or is this a bug.. Jim From seiryu at comcast.net Fri Nov 14 19:15:06 2003 From: seiryu at comcast.net (Nick Zitzmann) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: iPod Updater 1.x and 2.x In-Reply-To: <40FD2DD6-1710-11D8-9CE1-000393A7795C@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <40FD2DD6-1710-11D8-9CE1-000393A7795C@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 14, 2003, at 6:05 PM, Glenn Carnagey wrote: > Does anyone have any experience here, know of any problem with > downloading the 2.x updater, and just updating his iPod, and then > nuking it? i.e., is there any reason to believe I'll have trouble > syncing my older one after installing it. I would be very surprised if there was a problem... The updater application is just for flashing the firmware on the iPod, and resetting the iPod to its factory default settings, and nothing else. Once it's been used once, you can archive it somewhere else (in case you ever need to reset your iPod), and then throw it away. Nick Zitzmann AIM/iChat: dragonsdontsleep Check out my software page: http://seiryu.home.comcast.net/ S/MIME signature available upon request "I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone." - Bjarne Stroustrup From sstevenson at mac.com Fri Nov 14 19:34:13 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <7CAA373B-171C-11D8-9357-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:28 PM, Matt wrote: > Well, what's the difference between Apple hiding the smalls in OSX > (/usr, /etc, /bin) and Microsoft hiding the innards of the Windows > folder... I suspect a large amount of that stuff doesn't have to be present for Mac OS X to operate at the GUI level. Somebody could experiment with this by leaving the BSD subsystem out of the optional install and see what remains. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From sstevenson at mac.com Fri Nov 14 19:37:16 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Classic used by multiple users with fast-user switching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 14, 2003, at 7:03 PM, James Witte wrote: > If I have fast user-switching on, and one user is using Classic, it > appears (on my Mac at least) that no other user can start classic (it > says > that Classic is in use by another user) However, any "normal" > application > can be started by multiple users without problem. > > Is this related to the execute permissions assigned to each user for > Classic Startup? Or is this a bug.. I don't think it's a bug as much as it's technologically impractical (or at least a very bad idea). You're asking a hippo to rollerskate on honey. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From mdp1261 at rit.edu Fri Nov 14 19:50:01 2003 From: mdp1261 at rit.edu (Matt Penna) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> Message-ID: >http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/longhorn.asp > >"The basic problem with Mac OS X isn't going away: It's a classic desktop operating system that doesn't offer anything in the way of usability advancements over previous desktop operating systems. Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface are far superior to anything in Mac OS X. In the future, Longhorn will further distance Windows from OS X. From a graphical standpoint, there won't be any comparison. As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 conference, Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther." > I read parts of this article a few days ago and thought about posting a link to the list for discussion, but decided against doing so because most of it was so ridiculous! A little personal bias is one thing, but this author has "Shill" stamped on his forehead. A good knowledge of history is always important when trying to understand the present. Have a quick look at this article about Windows 2000 and Jim Allchin's attempts to describe the final product. (Written back when it was still called NT 5.) http://www.computerworld.com/news/1998/story/0,11280,32343,00.html I'll pull out a few bits for those who can't read it all. ----- "NT 5.0 'was not perfect' and called...'a work in progress'" [...] "[Allchin's statements are] a dramatic turnabout for a product that Microsoft has continuously touted as having so many new functions that it's more like a new product than an upgrade from NT 4.0" [...] "the same man who said in September 1997 that 'Microsoft is going to bet the company' on NT 5.0" [...] "Corporate users, meanwhile, are wondering what functions may come in at less than 100% and whether that will further delay a product that has been baking already for about two years." [...] "Randall Kennedy, an analyst at Competitive Systems Analysis, Inc. in Danville, Calif., said Microsoft officials he has talked to are worried about how bug-free and stable NT 5.0 will be. "'They're just realizing how much they've bitten off. If anything, they're stepping back and thinking, '"What did we do here?"' Kennedy said. 'This indicates they're worried about their ability to deliver quality, and with 35 million lines of code, that's understandable. They've told me they're not expecting significant performance gains over NT 4.'" ----- I think we could take every mention of a product version number in this article, increase it by two, re-publish it as an article about Longhorn, and it would still be accurate! This is the way Microsoft does business with just about every product, though it's most noticable with their OS releases. 1) Bill Gates and the appropriate VPs make pie-in-the-sky promises about a product that won't be released for several years, making sure to include the phrase "bet the company" in all of their speeches 2) 6 - 12 months before the product finally ships (after years of delays), Microsoft's Mr. A says "Well...this sort of works. But it's not quite what we said." 3) Microsoft's Mr. B tries to downplay Mr. A's comments 4) No one at Microsoft loses any sleep because, as evidenced by the people quoted in this article, everyone already made plans around the new product, possibly integrating pre-release versions into their production IT infrastructure, and it would cost more not to adopt the product at this point than to adopt the product in its final, albeit incomplete, form. (Of course, there are people who actually like Windows and believe it solves their problems, but it's becoming clearer to me every day that their ranks are steadily diminishing.) This Winsupersite article is just more of the same. "Wait 'til you see it! It'll be really, REALLY good!! Trust us!!! Much better than anything you can buy now, or even when it's finally released!!!! And we know, because we've been using the companion product, MS Crystal Ball, due sometime in 2047, so join the beta program now!!!!!" I think this has been stretched to new levels of absurdity by comparing a current release of Mac OS to a version of Windows that is more than 2 years off, though maybe we should be happy that Mac OS has so quickly reached the point where it is considered a viable threat to Windows. I don't think anyone ever seriously suggested *that* during the antitrust trial. (We heard a lot about Linux, which has sort of languished. Staunch Linux advocates seem to take a few pages from MS' book. "It'll be better soon. Really! Then it'll take over Windows' market!!") Bottom line, Mac OS X is not a perfect product, but we have seen real, palpable improvement from Apple over the last several years. That's more than I can say about just about anyone with whom they're competing. Matt -- Matt Penna mdp1261@rit.edu ICQ: 399825 Yahoo! Messenger: mdp1261 AIM: S0ba "The trouble with computers, of course, is that they're very sophisticated idiots." -Dr. Who From dave at difference.com.au Fri Nov 14 19:57:02 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Anderson on Switch In-Reply-To: <441938D6-16F0-11D8-9FA3-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> References: <441938D6-16F0-11D8-9FA3-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Message-ID: At 5:16 PM -0500 14/11/03, Zachery Bir wrote: >On Nov 14, 2003, at 5:03 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: > >>Anyhow, while I'm on an embracing mood, am I the only one who doesn't like >>the gaudy new chrome Apple logo in Panther? I really like the simplicity of >>the white or black 2D mono look. > >Do you find yourself spending an inordinate amount of time looking at it? > >To answer your question: I like it just fine, it's the same as the >nice chrome Apple logo on my 17" iMac. I'm actually with Dan on this one. I liked the 2D mono look, just like the nice white Apple logo on my 17" AlBook :-) Mock chrome is so '90s. Cheers David From dave at difference.com.au Fri Nov 14 20:00:15 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: At 3:21 PM -0700 14/11/03, Rosyna wrote: >In fact, that seems to be the only thing that MS keeps touting. >Where is all the other stuff destined for longhorn? More and more it >reminds me of Copland and how it failed. Yet, unlike longhorn (in so >far), all of it's technologies eventually shipped. > >Ack, at 11/14/03, Ian Ragsdale said: > >>In what ways? The only thing I can think of that sounds really >>technically superior is the database filesystem, but they've >>announced that in the past and haven't shipped it yet. I'll >>believe it when I see it. And even according to Mr Windows Apologist, they are a long way off getting this to work well. Cheers David From kcall at mac.com Fri Nov 14 20:51:03 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Apple advertising Message-ID: <473A17E5-1727-11D8-A17D-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> in a discussion about Apple advertising and someone sent me this link: http://www.applelinks.com/abacus/selling_air.shtml k From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 14 20:53:18 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 14 Nov 2003, at 11:35, Fabien Roy wrote: > Considering that the iPod _IS_ also a Mac OS X HFS FireWire storage... No. The ipod is a Hard Drive with a completely different non-OS X operating system on it. Blaming OS X for problems that are only related to the ipod is a bit lie blaming OS X because a windows machine on the same LAN keeps crashing. -- Use your key, unlock the door, see what fate might have in store. Come explore your dreams and Creations, Enter the world of imagination. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/1dc108eb/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 14 21:00:18 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: upgrade an iMac In-Reply-To: <314C121B-16C1-11D8-8D7D-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> References: <314C121B-16C1-11D8-8D7D-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6651942D-1728-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 14 Nov 2003, at 09:40, Rick Sanford wrote: > I have a client (education) with a Rev A iMac. It's (still) running > Mac OS 8.1. I've been after them to upgrade for years. They are now > ready to do so, it would appear. > > Question: what experiences have people had or heard about, comparing > the performance of a 233 rev A iMac (I think it's got 288MB Ram, and > the orig. 4GB drive) with Jaguar as opposed to Panther. I'm a little > concerned Panther might not load (there might be less than 3GB free) > and it would be difficult to do anything other than a straight upgrade > (no archive, no backup). With a custom install removing some languages > and some printer drivers, can you get the disk requirements down much? > We used to have to do this to install NeXTstep on the 105MB drives.... > ;-) I'd rather go for Panther of course all things being equal, but if > Jaguar is a better fit for an older iMac, then that's an option. Panther without the extra language kits, x11, xcode, dev tools, printer drivers, etc comes in and just about 1GB. My 233 died before I could put Panther on it, so I can't speak to the performance. Although in general, Panther is better behaved than Jag, and Panther did (and does) run perfectly well on a friends 333Mhz iMac. OTOH, HDs are insanely cheap. I've got paperweights that are larger than 4GB... -- This is our music from the bachelor's den, the sound of loneliness turned up to ten. A harsh soundtrack from a stagnant waterbed and it sounds just like this. This is the sound of someone losing the plot, making out that they're OK when they're not. You're gonna like it, but not a lot. And the chorus goes like this... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/ac21a2d1/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 14 21:06:15 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Classic used by multiple users with fast-user switching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 14 Nov 2003, at 20:03, James Witte wrote: > If I have fast user-switching on, and one user is using Classic, it > appears (on my Mac at least) that no other user can start classic (it > says > that Classic is in use by another user) However, any "normal" > application > can be started by multiple users without problem. Haven't tried itunes yet, have you? > Is this related to the execute permissions assigned to each user for > Classic Startup? Or is this a bug.. I don't think the Classic issue is a bug, but it could be an annoyance. I just found out that Tristan, the first Littlewing pinball simulator, plays _fine_ under Classic. I was, needless to say, stunned. -- "Ironically, they lost the gigahertz game," he said of Intel. "(The G5) is extremely faster than the Itanium II, hands down." - Srinidhi Varadarajan, Virginia Tech -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/c4ab2b56/smime.bin From dave at difference.com.au Fri Nov 14 21:13:11 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <2BDAEBD6-16E2-11D8-9C78-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <2BDAEBD6-16E2-11D8-9C78-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: Anyway, lets face it, we are talking a lot largely about taking a single Jim Thurott quote out of context. So lets try this one instead, from http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/ac_preview.asp >And logically, we ostensibly use computers to complete tasks, not >wander aimlessly around a disconnected UI, hoping to find >applications that will provide us with the functionality we need. >And anything that facilitates this process is a welcome addition to >an OS that is often illogical, inconsistent, and confusing. Thats the stuff! Cheers! David From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Nov 14 21:16:51 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:50 PM, Lukreme wrote: > On 14 Nov 2003, at 11:35, Fabien Roy wrote: >> Considering that the iPod _IS_ also a Mac OS X HFS FireWire storage... > > No. The ipod is a Hard Drive with a completely different non-OS X > operating system on it. > > Blaming OS X for problems that are only related to the ipod is a bit > lie blaming OS X because a windows machine on the same LAN keeps > crashing. > Uhh, this is not a fair assessment. When an Oxford based firewire drive might have problems with journaling, for example, we might well blame OS X *or* the firewire drive for the problem. This is not much different than an iPod used in Firewire disk mode (and not in iPod mode). Chad From dave at difference.com.au Fri Nov 14 21:37:09 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: >That said, he also claims, "As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 >conference, Longhorn is far more impressive technically than >Panther." That I have rather more difficulty swallowing... Even if it was true, you just have to imagine how laughable it would be if this is all they have to say in 2006... I have to imagine that Apples conceptual ideas about what will be in Mac OS X in 2005/6, and what Apple has in the labs right now, are also in the same sense more advanced than Panther. They just haven't pre-announced them years in advance. Longhorn is playing catchup to Panther in many areas, particularly graphics. Differences between what Microsoft will offer with Avalon then and what Apple offers with Quartz now seem to be mostly a matter of taste (tumbling windows?). In other areas, I sincerely hope Apple is paying attention and dutifully working on their own implementation, as seems likely from what we know of existing directions - WinFS, for example, sounds like there is some potentially useful technology there. More database features in the file system is a good thing. As we get bigger and bigger amounts of disk space, managing data becomes more important than efficient storage. It sounds like in many cases, Longhorn is trying to do in one revolutionary release things that Mac OS X is making steady evolutionary gains on already. Looking at, say, photos - integrating many ways of dealing with photos in an application, even a really good application like iPhoto, is probably not as good as integrating a many ways of dealing with photos across the OS as Longhorn will do with the Libraries concept (even though the UI of the Longhorn implementation does appear to suck). You can see how the Longhorn cheer squad might be thinking that they can leap frog Mac OS X. But Apple has a lot of time on their hands that they can spent evolving and leveraging what they have - for example, if iPhoto automatically discovered all photos on the drive, some aspects could be accessed direct from Finder preview, the Photos finder favourite was a search of all photos not just a presupplied folder, etc - and end up with all the utility of the Longhorn approach, only with much more opportunity to test their ideas, and delivering many of the benefits to users years earlier. In large part, Apple can do things this way because they already have underlying APIs that are flexible and powerful, and don't need to rewrite and rearchitect their existing ones just to create some innovative UI. Similarly, XAML sounds like a very interesting idea, and potentially very powerful. But Apple is already several years ahead in that direction with .nibs, etc - is there any reason to believe that Apple will make no progress in two years? Similarly, Avalon as planned might have some advantages over Quartz now, but considering how far Apple has come in two years with Quartz Extreme, what might they have in another two years? Inevitably, Mac OS X 10.5 or whatever will do some things worse than Longhorn, some better. But Mac OS X is certainly doing it better now. The real claim in the article is not anything he says about Longhorn, but >Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface are far superior to >anything in Mac OS X. If you believe that, you will find its claims for the inevitable superiority of Longhorn slightly more plausible. Personally, I find the task-based interface mildly useful if you do something that is a task anticipated by the interface, and not obvious or routine - and it often makes unusual requests more difficult, adds nothing to more obvious requests, and slows down many common ones. Even at its best, the task-based interface trades flexibility for simplicity - simplicity that quickly is revealed as illusory once you try to do something unusual. Its HI candy, sweet initially, but in the long run slowing you down and depriving you of control. Where Mac OS X often really excels is in difficult tasks not anticipated by the interface and OS design - because between all the unix scripting power, Applescript, an interface designed to be adaptable, and all the fairly accessible easy to use APIs for many things, you can generally get that difficult task done somehow. The task based interface often makes certain common mildly complex tasks easier, but makes the difficult tasks even more difficult. And personally, the iApps seem only very marginally harder to work out than the longhorn examples he shows, but obviously extensible and powerful. iTunes was a great easy to use mp3 player in its first iteration, but now its got some great depth of features as well, like the smart playlists and applescript integration. Activity Centers don't seem like they will provide that combination of easy to learn to use AND flexible features that allow for innovation. Perhaps the real difference is that the task-based interface might be the best for people who never really feel comfortable with their computers and never push them in unanticipated directions, and the Mac will remain the platform for those who want to do unusual things? Perhaps Macs are destined to be a minority, because they really are an elitist platform? Which might mean that Longhorn will be a better UI by some measures, but its sure not going to grab me or most of Apples audience. He is, however, almost certainly correct with his next sentence. >In the future, Longhorn will further distance Windows from OS X. I differ mostly only in which direction the distance is. Cheers David From fabienlroy at mac.com Fri Nov 14 22:55:04 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> _Apple_ Mac OS X HFS Journaling system _MAY_ not be compatible with _Apple_ iPod, period. Note the above emphasis, unless the iPod _IS_ a third party add-on. Thanks. Fabien On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:09 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:50 PM, Lukreme wrote: > >> On 14 Nov 2003, at 11:35, Fabien Roy wrote: >>> Considering that the iPod _IS_ also a Mac OS X HFS FireWire >>> storage... >> >> No. The ipod is a Hard Drive with a completely different non-OS X >> operating system on it. >> >> Blaming OS X for problems that are only related to the ipod is a bit >> lie blaming OS X because a windows machine on the same LAN keeps >> crashing. >> > > Uhh, this is not a fair assessment. When an Oxford based firewire > drive might have problems with journaling, for example, we might well > blame OS X *or* the firewire drive for the problem. This is not much > different than an iPod used in Firewire disk mode (and not in iPod > mode). > > Chad > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 14 23:18:20 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Anderson on Switch In-Reply-To: References: <441938D6-16F0-11D8-9FA3-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> Message-ID: On 14 Nov 2003, at 20:40, David Cake wrote: > I liked the 2D mono look, just like the nice white Apple logo on my > 17" AlBook :-) > Mock chrome is so '90s. No no, crappy mock chrome is so 90's. Really good looking mock Chrome is not. I think the new logo looks very good, and I'm not a big fan of chrome. -- Why live in the world when you can live in your head? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/89a440be/smime.bin From michaelm at opendarwin.org Fri Nov 14 23:30:01 2003 From: michaelm at opendarwin.org (Michael Maibaum) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <9CBF71C6-173D-11D8-B198-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> On Nov 15, 2003, at 05:09, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:50 PM, Lukreme wrote: > >> On 14 Nov 2003, at 11:35, Fabien Roy wrote: >>> Considering that the iPod _IS_ also a Mac OS X HFS FireWire >>> storage... >> >> No. The ipod is a Hard Drive with a completely different non-OS X >> operating system on it. >> >> Blaming OS X for problems that are only related to the ipod is a bit >> lie blaming OS X because a windows machine on the same LAN keeps >> crashing. >> > > Uhh, this is not a fair assessment. When an Oxford based firewire > drive might have problems with journaling, for example, we might well > blame OS X *or* the firewire drive for the problem. This is not much > different than an iPod used in Firewire disk mode (and not in iPod > mode). Can the oxford chipset run the HD without OS X (or some other OS).....THe iPod has it's own OS, which may very well not understand journaling... -- Michael Maibaum internet: mike@maibaum.org | http://mike.maibaum.org voice: [m] 07958 604025 | From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 14 23:32:13 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <771F2EF0-173D-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 14 Nov 2003, at 14:28, Matt wrote: > On 14 Nov 2003, at 21:11, Thomas Vincent wrote: >> On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:50 AM, Matt wrote about some guy: >> >>> A leading Windows expert has dismissed Mac OS X as offering "nothing >>> in the way of usability advancements over previous desktop operating >>> systems". >> >> I do consider Windows XP interface greatly enhanced over previous >> windows interfaces. But the layout of the Windows file system is a >> complete DOS inherited mess, which contributes unneeded complexity. I >> think most people would agree with that statement. > > Well, what's the difference between Apple hiding the smalls in OSX > (/usr, /etc, /bin) and Microsoft hiding the innards of the Windows > folder... None on that score, but having apps litter the entire hard drive with kruft is quiet a bit different. Having applications that simply will not run if they are moved is different too. Have applications that cease to function if any of the fodlers above them are renamed is also uniquely Windows. Apple came up with a brilliant way around the underlying unix of Mac OS X by creating the application bundles, while in Windows if you move/rename most applications they simply break. In fact, the way to completely disable MSN Messenger in Windows is to rename its folder. > Both are needlessly complex. The real difference is that the smalls in > OSX have value for those weird UNIX geek people. I don't have a ploblem with \winnt\system and \winnt\system32 atc, but msft also uses \winnt (\windows) to store applications, system utilities, services, and pretty much anything else they happen to think of. And they litter then all over the place. Are OS X system apps anywhere other than /System/Library/CoreServices ? -- Hey, baby, I've got just the cure for that penis envy back at my apartment... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/deedaf1b/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 14 23:34:02 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <7CAA373B-171C-11D8-9357-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <7CAA373B-171C-11D8-9357-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: On 14 Nov 2003, at 20:33, Scott Stevenson wrote: > On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:28 PM, Matt wrote: > >> Well, what's the difference between Apple hiding the smalls in OSX >> (/usr, /etc, /bin) and Microsoft hiding the innards of the Windows >> folder... > > I suspect a large amount of that stuff doesn't have to be present for > Mac OS X to operate at the GUI level. Somebody could experiment with > this by leaving the BSD subsystem out of the optional install and see > what remains. I keep meaning to install OSX without the BSD subsystem on a secondary (tertiary, perhaps) drive just to see what it's like, but I'm such a CLI weenie I always wuss out. -- And the three men I admire most, the father son and the holly ghost, they caught the last train for the coast... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/8153d43c/smime.bin From thomasv at mac.com Fri Nov 14 23:47:03 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <114C513D-16F6-11D8-BA6C-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <114C513D-16F6-11D8-BA6C-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: Ummm...No its not. This Yukon FS is based on Microsoft SQL Server. On Nov 14, 2003, at 2:58 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > Vaporware doesn't count ;). The FS they are talking about is very > similar to what already exists in BeOS's FS. From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 14 23:56:01 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <01B5794B-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 14 Nov 2003, at 22:35, David Cake wrote: > WinFS, for example, sounds like there is some potentially useful > technology there. True, but NTFS has some potentially useful technology as well -- none of which MSFT is taking advanatage of. > More database features in the file system is a good thing. You *KNOW* Apple is working on some sort of DBFS. They hired wasisname from Be, right? I doubt he's sweeping floors. Now, as for waht we will get...that remains to be seen. I know the trouble is intigrating a new DBFS into OS X so that everything still works right. That will be quite a trick. MSFT, on the other hand, will create winFS, discover that every ap on the planet will break, so they will munge WinFS so it sorta keeps working with current aps, while sacraficing all the advantages of WinFS in the process. > But Apple has a lot of time on their hands that they can spent > evolving and leveraging what they have - for example, if iPhoto > automatically discovered all photos on the drive, some aspects could > be accessed direct from Finder preview, the Photos finder favourite > was a search of all photos not just a presupplied folder, etc - and > end up with all the utility of the Longhorn approach, only with much > more opportunity to test their ideas, and delivering many of the > benefits to users years earlier. In large part, Apple can do things > this way because they already have underlying APIs that are flexible > and powerful, and don't need to rewrite and rearchitect their existing > ones just to create some innovative UI. This is what I am expecting out of Mac OS X 10.5. -- Rent a flat above a shop, cut your hair and get a job, smoke some fags and play some pool, pretend you never went to school and still you'll never get it right cuz when you're lay'n in bed at night watching the roaches climb the wall if you called your dad he could stop it all. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/133d84e6/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 14 23:59:03 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: iPod Updater 1.x and 2.x In-Reply-To: <40FD2DD6-1710-11D8-9CE1-000393A7795C@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <40FD2DD6-1710-11D8-9CE1-000393A7795C@mac.com> Message-ID: <3A48B516-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 14 Nov 2003, at 19:05, Glenn Carnagey wrote: > Does anyone have any experience here, know of any problem with > downloading the 2.x updater, and just updating his iPod, and then > nuking it? i.e., is there any reason to believe I'll have trouble > syncing my older one after installing it. Install them both. They are smart enough to work on the right ipod. Connect the dock ipod and the 2.x updater will launch. Simple as that. -- This above all, to thine own self be true And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031114/9ea48a9b/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 15 00:04:29 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 14 Nov 2003, at 23:54, Fabien Roy wrote: > _Apple_ Mac OS X HFS Journaling system _MAY_ not be compatible with > _Apple_ iPod, period. > Note the above emphasis, unless the iPod _IS_ a third party add-on. 1) The ipod has nothing to do with "OS X" 2) Apple != "OS X" 3) HFS Journaling is a feature of HFS+, It is not a feature of "OS X" 4) iPod problems with HFS+ Journaling are not "OS X" problems. -- Love seekest only self to please, to bind another to its delight Joys in another's loss of ease And builds a hell in Heaven's despite! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/e3e05735/smime.bin From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Sat Nov 15 00:11:13 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 05:35, David Cake wrote: > Perhaps the real difference is that the task-based interface might be > the best for people who never really feel comfortable with their > computers and never push them in unanticipated directions, I would like it if we stopped calling it a "task based interface". That's double-speak. I can see in Mail.app a Send button. Sending an email is a task. So is everything else. And looking at that example image of their "iPhoto", the "tasks" it lists are just: Move photos to this computer. Retouch photos. Publish photos. Create a slide show screen saver. Order prints online. So the "tasks" are import, retouch, publish, slide-show and print. Um. All they've done is replace every icon with a text link, ie. it's a web page. BLEARGHHHHHH!!! > and the Mac will remain the platform for those who want to do unusual > things? No, because it's impossible to get any "real" work done with an interface like that. People will still be mungeing lists in Excel and for that the fancy full screen spashy web page interfaces will switch off and you'll be back in the normal maze of tiny tool bars. I suspect this is just another paper-thin layer plastered on to appeal to consumers. Stefano From fabienlroy at mac.com Sat Nov 15 00:22:06 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: Wow! So loss of data under OS X on an iPod is not an OS X problem. Thanks for the enlightenment. I really feel educated now... Fabien On Nov 14, 2003, at 11:58 PM, Lukreme wrote: > 4) iPod problems with HFS+ Journaling are not "OS X" problems. From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Sat Nov 15 00:32:07 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan.Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Stefano Mori" wrote: >> and the Mac will remain the platform for those who want to do unusual >> things? > I suspect this is just another paper-thin layer plastered on to appeal > to consumers. The tragedy of the matter is that for Mac to succeed it has to be really good (certainly much better), for Longhorn to succeed it simply has to be good enough. For the vast majority of users out there, it will be. Furthermore, the number of Windows users who will switch to OS X for UI/workflow reasons now or after Longhorn will be infinitesimal. d*g From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 15 00:54:01 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 01:20, Fabien Roy wrote: > Wow! So loss of data under OS X on an iPod is not an OS X problem. See, it's the "under OS X" that is the problem. Nothing that you have related about this problem has ANYTHING to do with OS X. You enabled journaling (a HFS+ feature) on a ipod, running ipod software (not running OS X). You said that caused a loss of data. Perhaps the ipod OS does not handle journaling well? maybe it doesn't support a journaled FS at all? Whatever the reason, this has _nothing_ to do with OS X. -- Ah we're lonely, we're romantic / and the cider's laced with acid / and the Holy Spirit's crying, Where's the beef? / And the moon is swimming naked / and the summer night is fragrant / with a mighty expectation of relief -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/9856d13c/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 15 00:57:02 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <65A0F2E6-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 01:00, Stefano Mori wrote: > normal maze of tiny tool bars. You are in a maze of tiny toolbars, all different. -- So now you know the words to our song, pretty soon you'll all be singing along, when you're sad, when you're lonely and it all turns out wrong... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/6568b487/smime.bin From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Sat Nov 15 01:48:09 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:26 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 08:28, Dan.Gaters wrote: > The tragedy of the matter is that for Mac to succeed it has to be > really > good (certainly much better), for Longhorn to succeed it simply has to > be > good enough. For the vast majority of users out there, it will be. And in the long term, there may be a sort of "cultural shift", in that it may simply become unfashionable to buy Windows. Really, I'm being serious. Just like the "open plan office" became _the_ thing to have to look "professional" (even though the supposed advantages of open plan offices are rather dubious), people's ideas of what a corporate information system should be like may also change. Correct me if I'm wrong, and the current widespread and general mantra seems to be "standard corporate PC". If I understand you Dan, this is the point that you've been making from time to time. (And in a way, the iMac was the first Post-Modern computer, in that the designers made the whole clunky heavy box look like a little gum drop). So what might be the next fashion trend? You know, the one that the masses will unconsciously follow because it's so obviously _in_ ? Maybe the new mantra will be "the right tool for the job", or something like that. ... but Gasp! Some of our readers have been saying this for years! Well, imagine if _everybody_ said that. And it's a leading question. IT manager: "Gee.. there must be one type of computer that's better at _this job_ than the others... and what I don't wanna do is 'standardize'... that's sooo last century IT dinosaur stupid... _real_ corporations are an integration of varied systems, each perfected for it's own job and contributing to the integrity of the whole ecosystem..." And that's just a made up example. The real shift could be even more radical. Stefano From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Sat Nov 15 02:13:01 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan.Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Stefano Mori" wrote: > And in the long term, there may be a sort of "cultural shift", in that > it may simply become unfashionable to buy Windows. Nothing is impossible, in theory. If Windows had a dominance of, say, 40%-60% the tipping point you're alluding to may eventually rear its glorious head. But at 90%+ it's darn near unlikely. And the worst part is, unlike many other monopolies, Microsoft is not dumb. If Microsoft didn't exist, the fat part of the bell curve would create one, gravitating towards a standard at almost all costs. Our computing world mirrors the real world: a sea of mediocrity with a few islands of sensibility, taste and responsibility. I don't expect any "cultural shift" to fundamentally change that any time soon. Sorry to ruin your day.:) d*g From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 15 02:25:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 15 Nov 2003, at 08:20, Fabien Roy wrote: > Wow! So loss of data under OS X on an iPod is not an OS X problem. > Thanks for the enlightenment. I really feel educated now... Mac OS X supports UFS too. Reformat the iPod as UFS. Now, is it Mac OS X's fault that the iPod doesn't work as an MP? player? Or is it the dumbass who reformatted as UFS - a file system that the iPod doesn't support.... From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 15 02:30:19 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 15 Nov 2003, at 08:28, Dan.Gaters wrote: > "Stefano Mori" wrote: > >>> and the Mac will remain the platform for those who want to do unusual >>> things? > >> I suspect this is just another paper-thin layer plastered on to appeal >> to consumers. > > The tragedy of the matter is that for Mac to succeed it has to be > really > good (certainly much better), for Longhorn to succeed it simply has to > be > good enough. For the vast majority of users out there, it will be. "Succeed" is a wooly concept without some sort of description of what the criteria are. Apple will succeed, Mac OS X will succeed. The criteria for Longhorn are completely different but I'm confident it will succeed too. It's not even a question of "really good" versus "good enough" but rather a question of "will consumers buy a ?300 PC as opposed to a ?600 Mac?| The answer is a no-brainer. > Furthermore, the number of Windows users who will switch to OS X for > UI/workflow reasons now or after Longhorn will be infinitesimal. I think that's okay. Anyone expecting huge leaps in marketshare is not being realistic. Apple's is building on a small but sturdy foundation. Their march on Microsoft would be a lot easier if all of the people on this list would get trained as MicroDrones, get jobs in Fortune 500 companies as IT managers and then wait for the sleeper signal to switch... From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Sat Nov 15 02:37:01 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <81334CA2-1757-11D8-9066-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> On Nov 15, 2003, at 10:12, Dan.Gaters wrote: > Our computing world mirrors the real world: > a sea of mediocrity with a few islands of sensibility, taste and > responsibility. I don't expect any "cultural shift" to fundamentally > change > that any time soon. Sorry to ruin your day.:) I said in the long term... starting in about 4 years. The real world goes through shifts all the time. I'm suggesting that "chose the right tool for the job" will _become_ the mediocre answer--and replace the current mediocre idea of "standard corporate PC"--while the elite go forth onto yet new ideas. Stefano From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Sat Nov 15 02:45:02 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan.Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: <81334CA2-1757-11D8-9066-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> Message-ID: "Stefano Mori" wrote: > I said in the long term... starting in about 4 years. > The real world goes through shifts all the time. > I'm suggesting that "chose the right tool for the job" will _become_ > the mediocre answer--and replace the current mediocre idea of "standard > corporate PC"--while the elite go forth onto yet new ideas. Why would "chose the right tool for the job" become fashionable in four years? The notion has been around, so what happens in four years? d*g From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sat Nov 15 02:54:03 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Why would "chose the right tool for the job" become fashionable in four > years? The notion has been around, so what happens in four years? We all go bald and fly around with jetpacks. What else? j. From jared at 23x.net Sat Nov 15 03:05:03 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: <01B5794B-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <01B5794B-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <744BF585-175B-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> On 15 Nov 2003, at 08:54, Lukreme wrote: > True, but NTFS has some potentially useful technology as well -- none > of which MSFT is taking advanatage of. Apart from ACLs: the one area NT pisses on UNIX. -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "No SPORK today. SPORK tomorrow. There's always SPORK tomorrow." From jared at 23x.net Sat Nov 15 03:12:11 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <6762009D-175C-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> On 15 Nov 2003, at 07:54, Fabien Roy wrote: > _Apple_ Mac OS X HFS Journaling system _MAY_ not be compatible with > _Apple_ iPod, period. > Note the above emphasis, unless the iPod _IS_ a third party add-on. The _APPLE_ USB Mouse doesn't work in my GF's _APPLE_ PowerBook 3400. In fact, I doubt HFS+ Journaled/CaseSensitive _APPLE_ OSX works on her _APPLE_ Powerbook 3400. -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "It was like ... a bummer. My name is Ellen Feiss and I'm a SPORK" From jared at 23x.net Sat Nov 15 03:38:01 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: BBEdit 7.1 Message-ID: <06EA964C-1760-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> The new Preview function is a bit tasty. Opinions? /me previews the rest of the thread for those that don't want to follow it. jK/dG: "It's just like Homesite on Windows, only worse" MattJ: "strawman" Jes00s: "latex, scoreland? Si, senor" Xah: "Unix morons." Roger: "No, no, it doesn't do WMP9" Kreme: "Apple didn't write it, it's not their ... oh, it's webkit" Fabien: "It -runs- on -OSX-" Scott: "I'm sure bbedit has its own list. Back on Topic" JohnS: "NRFPT :-)" Jared: "SPORK" ChrisM: "IT DOESN'T PRINT!!!" ZBir: "I prefer emacs" SMori: "BASTARDS! Oops, wrong list" ... Bill: "Longhorn's out? BBEdit 7.1 has previews." -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "Come on, Romy. You've got to say something nice about my SPORK" From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 15 03:43:03 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: <744BF585-175B-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <01B5794B-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <744BF585-175B-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: <97210A68-1760-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 11:04, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > On 15 Nov 2003, at 08:54, Lukreme wrote: >> True, but NTFS has some potentially useful technology as well -- none >> of which MSFT is taking advanatage of. > > Apart from ACLs: the one area NT pisses on UNIX. Well, yeah, but that's the fragmentation problem. Not disk fragmentation but UNIX fragmentation. ACLs exist on UNIX and AFAICR existed before NTFS. It'd be nice to have. Especially if it was "distributed". But then there are issues to resolve before that happens. You know...single sign-on, identify verification. I see little point in working on ACLs unless we have identity signing as well. From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Sat Nov 15 04:07:04 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: BBEdit 7.1 In-Reply-To: <06EA964C-1760-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <06EA964C-1760-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: <19F5FEF9-1764-11D8-9066-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> On Nov 15, 2003, at 11:37, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > /me previews the rest of the thread for those that don't want to > follow it. LOL!!!!! Stefano From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 15 04:13:06 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: BBEdit 7.1 In-Reply-To: <06EA964C-1760-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <06EA964C-1760-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: <51A68D64-1764-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 04:37, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > The new Preview function is a bit tasty. Opinions? Very cool. redefined Command-Dtrl-P to do the preview in bbedit. Too bad it doesn't work with php.. > Kreme: "Apple didn't write it, it's not their ... oh, it's webkit" Bastard! > SMori: "BASTARDS! Oops, wrong list" Hey, that's my line! -- "As God as my witness, I though turkey's could fly," Arthur Carlson, WKRP in Cincinnati -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/ebd710fc/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 15 04:16:01 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <895F06C2-1764-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 03:29, Matt wrote: > Their march on Microsoft would be a lot easier if all of the people on > this list would get trained as MicroDrones, get jobs in Fortune 500 > companies as IT managers and then wait for the sleeper signal to > switch... I thought that plan was supposed to be secret? Right after longhorn is delayed to 2008... > -- There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/5e459a31/smime.bin From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Sat Nov 15 04:47:03 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 10:43, Dan.Gaters wrote: > "Stefano Mori" wrote: > >> I said in the long term... starting in about 4 years. >> The real world goes through shifts all the time. >> I'm suggesting that "chose the right tool for the job" will _become_ >> the mediocre answer--and replace the current mediocre idea of >> "standard >> corporate PC"--while the elite go forth onto yet new ideas. > > Why would "chose the right tool for the job" become fashionable in four > years? The notion has been around, so what happens in four years? Speaking subjectively, it seems to me that Windows has been around for like forever. Where exactly the change will come from is hard to pinpoint, as if it happens it will seemingly come from everywhere at once. One factor may be that now we have lots of people who have gone out and bought a home PC. And they are discovering the problems of administering them. It's been the year of viruses--the newspapers print stories about them--and home users have started worrying about security. People talk about going home to wipe their hard-drives clean because they are so infested by trojans and spyware, and they receive angry emails from their friends because their PC forwards malicious attachments. I believe this creates the question in people's minds of whether a PC is such a good idea after all, and a wish for something better. People are spending a lot of their computing time surfing. Even my mom, who has never shown an interest in computers or any electronic gadget, has started saying that she wants one so that she can use the World Wide Web. Granted, most browsers are Microsoft, but people don't think about it as using "Explorer". The Web is much bigger than any one application. And while many web site creators may continue to develop only for IE, Microsoft doesn't actually create the authoring tools. They can't change the format of web pages the way they change the format of Word documents. Web pages can be just simple human readable text. Meanwhile the back end is evolving into more sophisticated LAMP stuff. I believe that this is starting to defuse the terror of compatibility. Factor number three is Linux. No more needs to be said other than noting that Linux is showing no signs of slowing in it's expansion. IBM has announced a comprehensive desktop support program for next year. BBC News makes regular mention of it, which means it's entering the public consciousness as an option. Eg. "Currently 80 of the Samaritan's 203 branches across the UK and Republic of Ireland offer an e-mail service for people wanting to talk about problems in their lives. It is vital that the e-mail system is reliable, safe and maintains total confidentiality. The charity has chosen Linux vendor Trustix alongside IBM to provide network security." I believe that Linux is generating an excellent reputation for itself. So that's just three factors: Microsoft's bad reputation is spreading; the Web is becoming more critical to people's daily lives; Linux is becoming a real desktop alternative. I'd also add that it's just people's nature to get sick of stuff and desire something new. I believe we are in a transition period, and forces are mounting to overcome the static friction. For example, here's a quote from The Times Online business section: 'Ashim Pal, an analyst at Meta Group, says: ?If you ask what percentage of companies would like to jump away from Microsoft it would be 30 or 40 per cent. Ask which of them will actually leave, it might be 1 per cent.?' How long will the market permit such a need to go unfulfilled? Stefano From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 15 05:07:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8F5654BE-176C-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 12:46, Stefano Mori wrote and I'm taking snippets here: > And while many web site creators may continue to develop only for IE, > Microsoft doesn't actually create the authoring tools. > Factor number three is Linux. No more needs to be said other than > noting that Linux is showing no signs of slowing in it's expansion. I > believe that Linux is generating an excellent reputation for itself. The reputation of Linux and the demand for governments to use Open Source code is going to help Mac OS X as well. The way I see it, if a web site is incompatible with the Mac, a few Mac users are incensed but the world goes on. If, on the other hand, Open Source software makes strides in the public sector as it is seeping into the private sector then more people will be seeing those incompatibilities and there'll be increased demand for browsing experiences that are more uniform no matter what platform you use. I was pleased to see that most of the UK governments web sites worked fine in Safari. M From siracusa at mindspring.com Sat Nov 15 06:19:03 2003 From: siracusa at mindspring.com (John Siracusa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: BBEdit 7.1 In-Reply-To: <06EA964C-1760-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: On 11/15/03 6:37 AM, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > JohnS: "NRFPT :-)" I hope that's not supposed to be me, because I totally avoided that thread... :P -John From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 15 07:33:03 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: At 1:53 AM -0700 11/15/03, Lukreme wrote: >You enabled journaling (a HFS+ feature) on a ipod, running ipod >software (not running OS X). You said that caused a loss of data. >Perhaps the ipod OS does not handle journaling well? maybe it >doesn't support a journaled FS at all? Whatever the reason, this >has _nothing_ to do with OS X. I may not understand the low level code of journaling, but I somehow doubt it needs an OS on the target device. Journaling relies on code in OS X... and it is performed on block based devices like drives... with the interface on the drive probably not mattering too much. What does matter is that the target device is formatted HFS+... and that the format support journaling. What might be an issue us that when the iPod OS regains control over the device and needs to access the drive via it's known format, that the journaling entries are not understood by the iPod OS. Seeing that Apple makes both products, one would think that Apple would have covered the issue in Mac OS X when the iPod is set as a hard drive such that something as simple as a setting for a legitimate target drive didn't have a conflict with the target device's routines to the same disk. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 15 08:29:02 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 15 Nov 2003, at 08:32, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 1:53 AM -0700 11/15/03, Lukreme wrote: >> You enabled journaling (a HFS+ feature) on a ipod, running ipod >> software (not running OS X). You said that caused a loss of data. >> Perhaps the ipod OS does not handle journaling well? maybe it >> doesn't support a journaled FS at all? Whatever the reason, this has >> _nothing_ to do with OS X. > > I may not understand the low level code of journaling, but I somehow > doubt it needs an OS on the target device. It doesn't. > Journaling relies on code in OS X No, no really. It is a FS level feature that needs support in the OS. It is not an OS feature. > What might be an issue us that when the iPod OS regains control over > the device and needs to access the drive via it's known format, that > the journaling entries are not understood by the iPod OS. That's certainly a possibility. Also possible is that the iPod OS mungs the journaling portion of the FS< munging the entire thing. It's also possible that the journaling interferes with the ipod loading it's OS. > Seeing that Apple makes both products, one would think that Apple > would have covered the issue in Mac OS X when the iPod is set as a > hard drive such that something as simple as a setting for a legitimate > target drive didn't have a conflict with the target device's routines > to the same disk. If you can find anything where Apple sets the iPod to be journaled then yes, that is a concern. However, the iPod drive is NOT journaled by default and it would take user action to journal it. -- "I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect had intended for us to forego their use." -Galileo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/7705e233/smime.bin From ehrich at mninter.net Sat Nov 15 08:38:01 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: mail feature request Message-ID: When reading mail from a pop account, optionally not download attachments of type: [ .exe .pdf .tiff .gif .vcf .sig .pgp. .p7s etc.]. While adding to that list I realized that, for me, a list of accepted types might be a lot shorter: [ .jpg, .jpeg .txt (no type)]. Of course the attachment should be described (type and size) with an option to download it. -- Bill Ehrich From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 15 08:54:01 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: At 9:28 AM -0700 11/15/03, Lukreme wrote: >>Journaling relies on code in OS X > >No, no really. It is a FS level feature that needs support in the >OS. It is not an OS feature. I'm not sure we're talking about anything different. I see the FS code as part of the OS. The main point is that the target drive is unaware of how it is being utilized. >If you can find anything where Apple sets the iPod to be journaled >then yes, that is a concern. However, the iPod drive is NOT >journaled by default and it would take user action to journal it. A user action which should not be allowed *if* the iPod cannot handle the format. I'd also suggest users should be protected from formatting the iPod drive to something other than a format the device itself can manipulate. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From thomasv at mac.com Sat Nov 15 09:13:02 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: mail feature request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 7:20 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > When reading mail from a pop account, optionally not download > attachments of type: [ .exe .pdf .tiff .gif .vcf .sig .pgp. .p7s > etc.]. It would be nice if you could configure mail.app to decide which attachment types you didn't want to download, and if it would verify pgp and or encrypt/decrypt pgp. > > While adding to that list I realized that, for me, a list of accepted > types might be a lot shorter: [ .jpg, .jpeg .txt (no type)]. > > Of course the attachment should be described (type and size) with an > option to download it. > Cheers, Tom From fabienlroy at mac.com Sat Nov 15 09:19:10 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <6762009D-175C-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <6762009D-175C-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: Yeah! You are talking about shipping product from Apple (the 3400) and the iPod is a third party product. Again thanks for the enlightenment and I will shut my mouth for now... Fabien On Nov 15, 2003, at 3:11 AM, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > On 15 Nov 2003, at 07:54, Fabien Roy wrote: >> _Apple_ Mac OS X HFS Journaling system _MAY_ not be compatible with >> _Apple_ iPod, period. >> Note the above emphasis, unless the iPod _IS_ a third party add-on. > > The _APPLE_ USB Mouse doesn't work in my GF's _APPLE_ PowerBook 3400. > In fact, I doubt HFS+ Journaled/CaseSensitive _APPLE_ OSX works on her > _APPLE_ Powerbook 3400. > > -- > Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net > "It was like ... a bummer. My name is Ellen Feiss and I'm a SPORK" > From thomasv at mac.com Sat Nov 15 09:22:01 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: MusicNet CEO: Tech giants will 'dominate' iTMS Message-ID: <05F0CEDE-1790-11D8-9903-003065C4548E@mac.com> Got this off of MacMinute - http://www.macminute.com/2003/11/14/musicnet Alan McGlade, CEO of MusicNet, said that the iTunes Music Store may be an early leader in the music download business, but others will soon be prominent. "The big companies are going to dominate," McGlade said. "AOL is going to be a significant player. Companies like Yahoo, MTV, Microsoft, Sony. I don't think it's going to be iTunes." I don't think Apple will keep the enormous marketshare it has at this point. But what do you folks think it will keep? BTW, isn't AOL using the iTunes technology in its MusicNet client? Cheers, Tom From jared at 23x.net Sat Nov 15 09:26:34 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: mail feature request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8E453112-1790-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> On 15 Nov 2003, at 18:11, Thomas Vincent wrote: >> When reading mail from a pop account, optionally not download >> attachments of type: [ .exe .pdf .tiff .gif .vcf .sig .pgp. >> .p7s etc.]. > > It would be nice if you could configure mail.app to decide which > attachment types you didn't want to download, and if it would verify > pgp and or encrypt/decrypt pgp. Surely it has to download the mail to decode it and see what the attachment is. -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "I do not like SPORKs, Sam-I-Am" From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 15 09:30:07 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 15 Nov 2003, at 16:53, Mark F. Murphy wrote: >> If you can find anything where Apple sets the iPod to be journaled >> then yes, that is a concern. However, the iPod drive is NOT journaled >> by default and it would take user action to journal it. > > A user action which should not be allowed *if* the iPod cannot handle > the format. I'd also suggest users should be protected from > formatting the iPod drive to something other than a format the device > itself can manipulate. Well, shouldn't this be in all hard drive mechanisms? After all, pre-8.1 clients can't read HFS+.... Evidently that would be an OSX problem as well. M From tallama at mac.com Sat Nov 15 09:32:34 2003 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <114C513D-16F6-11D8-BA6C-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 14, 2003, at 11:45 PM, Thomas Vincent wrote: > Ummm...No its not. This Yukon FS is based on Microsoft SQL Server. > > On Nov 14, 2003, at 2:58 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > >> Vaporware doesn't count ;). The FS they are talking about is very >> similar to what already exists in BeOS's FS. It's not vaporware, since early betas exist. It is a BeOS clone, because it does the same things that BFS did. However, it's still (according to reports) dog-slow. It also only indexes your User folder. No searching for resources in /Program Files, or for things hiding in the Microsoft warren that is /WINDOWS. The idea is a good one, but in typical MS fashion I think the implementation will suck, and only MS will use it, and it will languish in limbo. The better idea would be to just make a simple, clean interface to Yukon that apps could use to store all the data they want, and save that data into a single file, anywhere on the HD. Like SQLite but with a more robust SQL Server in the back. Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/40ce7626/smime.bin From chickxsy at sensewave.com Sat Nov 15 09:34:17 2003 From: chickxsy at sensewave.com (Barbro Maria Haveland) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Auto mounting a network directory? In-Reply-To: <111420031842.9390.1a98@comcast.net> References: <111420031842.9390.1a98@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2DE48CD4-1791-11D8-9B0E-000393B615D2@sensewave.com> On 14. nov. 2003, at 19.42, robertlaferla@comcast.net wrote: > What is the preferred way to automatically mount a network directory > everytime the system starts? I suppose I could edit NetInfo mounts or > fstab but shouldn't there be an application to do this? Have you tried mounting it, then adding it to "Startup Items" under "Accounts" in systempreferances? Tried to add a smb-share, and it works, but I haven't tried if it works when you boot. -- Barb. aka Chickxsy From tallama at mac.com Sat Nov 15 09:37:06 2003 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: MusicNet CEO: Tech giants will 'dominate' iTMS In-Reply-To: <05F0CEDE-1790-11D8-9903-003065C4548E@mac.com> References: <05F0CEDE-1790-11D8-9903-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 9:20 AM, Thomas Vincent wrote: > Got this off of MacMinute - > http://www.macminute.com/2003/11/14/musicnet > > Alan McGlade, CEO of MusicNet, said that the iTunes Music Store may be > an early leader in the music download business, but others will soon > be prominent. "The big companies are going to dominate," McGlade said. > "AOL is going to be a significant player. Companies like Yahoo, MTV, > Microsoft, Sony. I don't think it's going to be iTunes." > > I don't think Apple will keep the enormous marketshare it has at this > point. But what do you folks think it will keep? BTW, isn't AOL using > the iTunes technology in its MusicNet client? I'm thinking realistically of 20-30%, all told. Or 80% like they have now. I think it will be one of the two: They will simply dominate, or they'll be one of a handful of big players. The other services coming out now are by and large poor clones of iTMS, but that's no reason to believe they'll stay that way. The Wintel world moves slowly, but they generally do reach their destination (it's just that that destination has never been 'Quality' or 'Ease of Use'). However, if I were Apple I'd be lobbying MTV about now to just throw their weight behind iTMS. Hell, I'd have done it a long time ago. Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/0e52417e/smime.bin From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Sat Nov 15 09:46:01 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <771F2EF0-173D-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 11/14/03 11:29 PM, "Lukreme" wrote: > On 14 Nov 2003, at 14:28, Matt wrote: >> On 14 Nov 2003, at 21:11, Thomas Vincent wrote: >>> On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:50 AM, Matt wrote about some guy: >>> >>>> A leading Windows expert has dismissed Mac OS X as offering "nothing >>>> in the way of usability advancements over previous desktop operating >>>> systems". >>> >>> I do consider Windows XP interface greatly enhanced over previous >>> windows interfaces. But the layout of the Windows file system is a >>> complete DOS inherited mess, which contributes unneeded complexity. I >>> think most people would agree with that statement. >> >> Well, what's the difference between Apple hiding the smalls in OSX >> (/usr, /etc, /bin) and Microsoft hiding the innards of the Windows >> folder... > > None on that score, but having apps litter the entire hard drive with > kruft is quiet a bit different. Having applications that simply will > not run if they are moved is different too. Have applications that > cease to function if any of the fodlers above them are renamed is also > uniquely Windows. Apple came up with a brilliant way around the > underlying unix of Mac OS X by creating the application bundles, while > in Windows if you move/rename most applications they simply break. In > fact, the way to completely disable MSN Messenger in Windows is to > rename its folder. Well, I think OS X took a step backwards in some areas here. Lots of Apple's updaters don't seem to happy if you move some of their apps out of the /Applications folder. .NET also solves the problem with assemblies. This has been available for a while now. >> Both are needlessly complex. The real difference is that the smalls in >> OSX have value for those weird UNIX geek people. > > I don't have a ploblem with \winnt\system and \winnt\system32 atc, but > msft also uses \winnt (\windows) to store applications, system > utilities, services, and pretty much anything else they happen to think > of. And they litter then all over the place. > > Are OS X system apps anywhere other than /System/Library/CoreServices ? It all depends on how you define Application :-) Obviously there's lots of stuff in places like /bin. There are also various helper apps scattered throughout the various folders. Hey, let's get in a big argument about how you define "application"! :-) Dan From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Sat Nov 15 09:50:04 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: mail feature request In-Reply-To: <8E453112-1790-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: On 11/15/03 9:24 AM, "Jared ''Danger'' Earle" wrote: > On 15 Nov 2003, at 18:11, Thomas Vincent wrote: >>> When reading mail from a pop account, optionally not download >>> attachments of type: [ .exe .pdf .tiff .gif .vcf .sig .pgp. >>> .p7s etc.]. >> >> It would be nice if you could configure mail.app to decide which >> attachment types you didn't want to download, and if it would verify >> pgp and or encrypt/decrypt pgp. > > Surely it has to download the mail to decode it and see what the > attachment is. Actually, I think IMAP has some functionality to selectively retrieve certain MIME parts (and to query the MIME types of those parts). So, it's technically possible. Dan From tallama at mac.com Sat Nov 15 09:52:56 2003 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 12:28 AM, Dan.Gaters wrote: > "Stefano Mori" wrote: > >>> and the Mac will remain the platform for those who want to do unusual >>> things? > >> I suspect this is just another paper-thin layer plastered on to appeal >> to consumers. > > The tragedy of the matter is that for Mac to succeed it has to be > really > good (certainly much better), for Longhorn to succeed it simply has to > be > good enough. For the vast majority of users out there, it will be. NO. Apple's goal is to be better than Windows. They succeed in that now: for the Mac to succeed, it has to be a viable OS with good apps, users who like using it and hardware that Rocks. Microsoft's goal is to 'put a computer on every desk' [1][2]. They succeed in doing that by being enough of what everyone wants that most people decide to do without the littler things they want, like a good UI and an intuitive workflow. Your problem, Jason, is that you confuse the two goals. They are not the same, never have been, and never will be. I and many other Mac users are very happy about that. Of course it would be NICE if more people used Macs. They should. I advocate that whenever I have a chance. But that's not the goal, and that's a good thing. [1] Their actual mission statement [2] Yes, a computer with a Windows OS. Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/b57af666/smime.bin From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 15 09:56:09 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <962368CC-1794-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 17:44, Dan Crevier wrote: > Hey, let's get in a big argument about how you define "application"! > :-) Well, we know whose answer won't include "reliability" or "upgrade path". Still smarting from upgrading one luser from OE4.5 to OE5.. M From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Sat Nov 15 09:58:55 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: <01B5794B-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 11/14/03 11:54 PM, "Lukreme" wrote: >> More database features in the file system is a good thing. > > You *KNOW* Apple is working on some sort of DBFS. They hired wasisname > from Be, right? I doubt he's sweeping floors. > > Now, as for waht we will get...that remains to be seen. I know the > trouble is intigrating a new DBFS into OS X so that everything still > works right. That will be quite a trick. > > MSFT, on the other hand, will create winFS, discover that every ap on > the planet will break, so they will munge WinFS so it sorta keeps > working with current aps, while sacraficing all the advantages of WinFS > in the process. That's complete nonsense. WinFS is designed to work seemlessly with older apps. The old apps don't even know they are sitting on top of WinFS. And, you can have WinFS plugins (I forget the proper term) that extract meta data from files automatically. For example, if a non-WinFS aware image editing app were to write an image file, the EXIF data would automatically get extracted into WinFS metadata. Microsoft has released a version of Longhorn to 3rd party developers already, so they can start investigating any compatibility issues. Dan From jared at 23x.net Sat Nov 15 10:02:10 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: mail feature request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <780136FB-1795-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> On 15 Nov 2003, at 18:45, Dan Crevier wrote: >>>> When reading mail from a pop account, optionally not download >>>> attachments of type: [ .exe .pdf .tiff .gif .vcf .sig .pgp. >>>> .p7s etc.]. > [...] > Actually, I think IMAP has some functionality to selectively retrieve > certain MIME parts (and to query the MIME types of those parts). So, > it's > technically possible. So, who checks POP accounts using IMAP? :-) I doubt it's possible using POP3, but I don't use POP these days, apart from fetchmailing a few legacy accounts. -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "We've got a blind date with Destiny ... ... and it looks like she's ordered the SPORK!" From ehrich at mninter.net Sat Nov 15 10:26:00 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: adjusting scrolling speed In-Reply-To: <20031107192728.GH6539@Dark-Age.local> References: <35FFD122-1138-11D8-9A31-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> <20031107192728.GH6539@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: >: Does anyone know of a way, perhaps by editing some *.plist file, etc., >: to slow down the scrolling speed, particularly in the Finder? Using PrefEdit: Registered Defaults has several NSScroller.. settings, and Global Preferences has com.apple.scrollwheel.scaling, but not, unfortunately, ..scrollwheel.acceleration . I hope they add that soon. -- Bill Ehrich From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 15 10:29:02 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: At 5:27 PM +0000 11/15/03, Matt wrote: >On 15 Nov 2003, at 16:53, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >>>If you can find anything where Apple sets the iPod to be journaled >>>then yes, that is a concern. However, the iPod drive is NOT >>>journaled by default and it would take user action to journal it. >> >>A user action which should not be allowed *if* the iPod cannot >>handle the format. I'd also suggest users should be protected from >>formatting the iPod drive to something other than a format the >>device itself can manipulate. > >Well, shouldn't this be in all hard drive mechanisms? After all, >pre-8.1 clients can't read HFS+.... > >Evidently that would be an OSX problem as well. Apple makes the iPod as a consumer device. It would be in their best interest to make it as idiot proof as possible on the things it has control over... like Mac OS X. Or perhaps some people thing its a good thing that users could easily blow away the iPod drive? I'm not sure why there's a defense to be made here however. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 15 10:35:06 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 18:25, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 5:27 PM +0000 11/15/03, Matt wrote: >> Well, shouldn't this be in all hard drive mechanisms? After all, >> pre-8.1 clients can't read HFS+.... >> >> Evidently that would be an OSX problem as well. > > Apple makes the iPod as a consumer device. > It would be in their best interest to make it as idiot proof as > possible on the things it has control over... like Mac OS X. It's an action that has to be chosen deliberately. Anything idiot-proof fails when shown to an actual idiot. And they do exist. > Or perhaps some people thing its a good thing that users could easily > blow away the iPod drive? > I'm not sure why there's a defense to be made here however. Then shut up. M From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Sat Nov 15 10:38:02 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: mail feature request In-Reply-To: <780136FB-1795-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: On 11/15/03 9:59 AM, "Jared ''Danger'' Earle" wrote: > On 15 Nov 2003, at 18:45, Dan Crevier wrote: >>>>> When reading mail from a pop account, optionally not download >>>>> attachments of type: [ .exe .pdf .tiff .gif .vcf .sig .pgp. >>>>> .p7s etc.]. >> [...] >> Actually, I think IMAP has some functionality to selectively retrieve >> certain MIME parts (and to query the MIME types of those parts). So, >> it's >> technically possible. > > So, who checks POP accounts using IMAP? :-) > > I doubt it's possible using POP3, but I don't use POP these days, apart > from fetchmailing a few legacy accounts. POP has no functionality like that... Dan From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Sat Nov 15 11:14:00 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan.Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Stefano Mori" wrote: > I believe this creates the question in people's minds of whether a PC is such > a good idea after all, and a wish for something better. This sounds theoretically plausible. In practice, though, most people think, and will continue to think, that's how God intended computing to be. > And while many web site creators may continue to develop only for IE, > Microsoft doesn't actually create the authoring tools. [...] I believe that > this is starting to defuse the terror of compatibility. Hence the move away from the browser in Longhorn. > The charity has chosen Linux vendor Trustix alongside IBM to provide network > security." I believe that Linux is generating an excellent reputation for > itself. Not on the desktop yet. > So that's just three factors: Microsoft's bad reputation is spreading; > the Web is becoming more critical to people's daily lives; Linux is > becoming a real desktop alternative. I'd also add that it's just > people's nature to get sick of stuff and desire something new. Which is why MS is giving you Longhorn.:) > 'Ashim Pal, an analyst at Meta Group, says: ?If you ask what percentage > of companies would like to jump away from Microsoft it would be 30 or > 40 per cent. Ask which of them will actually leave, it might be 1 per > cent.?' My point exactly. > How long will the market permit such a need to go unfulfilled? I don't think it has risen to the level of a "need" yet. To be sure, I'm giving you the "glass is half empty" version. But predictions about people abandoning Windows or not upgrading come out every time a big new version of Windows is to be introduced. It doesn't happen. Now, obviously, there are more/better choices this time around. But what I'm saying is, let's not underestimate Microsoft, overestimate its competitors and, most importantly, peoples' ability and/or willingness to change. Inertia can be an ugly thing and all Microsoft has to do is to be good enough. d*g From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 15 11:35:03 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: At 6:34 PM +0000 11/15/03, Matt wrote: >>Apple makes the iPod as a consumer device. >>It would be in their best interest to make it as idiot proof as >>possible on the things it has control over... like Mac OS X. > >It's an action that has to be chosen deliberately. Of course it is. So is: rm -rf / >Anything idiot-proof fails when shown to an actual idiot. And they do exist. That's why the Mac OS has protections... so people don't do something that could be very harmful. >>Or perhaps some people thing its a good thing that users could >>easily blow away the iPod drive? >>I'm not sure why there's a defense to be made here however. > >Then shut up. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or something? mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From thomasv at mac.com Sat Nov 15 11:38:06 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: MusicNet CEO: Tech giants will 'dominate' iTMS In-Reply-To: References: <05F0CEDE-1790-11D8-9903-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <0C6CF4BD-17A3-11D8-9903-003065C4548E@mac.com> Who says they haven't tried. =) I don't know anything, but it is a pretty logical move on Apple's part. On Nov 15, 2003, at 9:32 AM, The Amazing Llama wrote: > However, if I were Apple I'd be lobbying MTV about now to just throw > their weight behind iTMS. Hell, I'd have done it a long time ago. From lngtones at mac.com Sat Nov 15 11:42:46 2003 From: lngtones at mac.com (Phil Larson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: MusicNet CEO: Tech giants will 'dominate' iTMS In-Reply-To: <05F0CEDE-1790-11D8-9903-003065C4548E@mac.com> References: <05F0CEDE-1790-11D8-9903-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 9:20 AM, Thomas Vincent wrote: > "The big companies are going to dominate," McGlade said. "AOL is going > to be a significant player. Companies like Yahoo, MTV, Microsoft, > Sony. I don't think it's going to be iTunes." I thought AOL was partnering with Apple to provide links to the Music store all over its service? http://www.applelinks.com/articles/2003/10/20031016163325.shtml Phil From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Sat Nov 15 12:00:02 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <962368CC-1794-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 11/15/03 9:53 AM, "Matt" wrote: > On 15 Nov 2003, at 17:44, Dan Crevier wrote: >> Hey, let's get in a big argument about how you define "application"! >> :-) > > Well, we know whose answer won't include "reliability" or "upgrade > path". > > Still smarting from upgrading one luser from OE4.5 to OE5.. Huh? Many, many users upgraded from OE 4.5 to OE 5 without problems. I don't remember hearing any general complaints. What was the problem upgrading? Dan From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sat Nov 15 12:06:09 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <3196A17E-17A6-11D8-9DFD-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> Oh geezus. This is probably the most annoying and boring thread EVER in bitch. Can we move on? Summary: - Some people say Apple should have made the OS so it won't allow you to enable journaling on iPod, knowing that it won't work with iPod. - Some other people say the user should be aware of that and not enable journaling. Is that it? Just that? Can we move on more important matters? Like, for example, you know, I liked Revolutions and everything. j. >>> If you can find anything where Apple sets the iPod to be journaled >>> then yes, that is a concern. However, the iPod drive is NOT >>> journaled by default and it would take user action to journal it. >> >> A user action which should not be allowed *if* the iPod cannot handle >> the format. I'd also suggest users should be protected from >> formatting the iPod drive to something other than a format the device >> itself can manipulate. > > Well, shouldn't this be in all hard drive mechanisms? After all, > pre-8.1 clients can't read HFS+.... > > Evidently that would be an OSX problem as well. > > M From lomion at mac.com Sat Nov 15 12:22:45 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <7CAA373B-171C-11D8-9357-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <7CAA373B-171C-11D8-9357-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <37BC00EE-17A9-11D8-AED9-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 10:33 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:28 PM, Matt wrote: > >> Well, what's the difference between Apple hiding the smalls in OSX >> (/usr, /etc, /bin) and Microsoft hiding the innards of the Windows >> folder... > > I suspect a large amount of that stuff doesn't have to be present for > Mac OS X to operate at the GUI level. Somebody could experiment with > this by leaving the BSD subsystem out of the optional install and see > what remains. > You cannot do this. The BSD susbsystem is required. --Larry From Dan.Gaters at rcn.com Sat Nov 15 12:27:11 2003 From: Dan.Gaters at rcn.com (Dan.Gaters) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Dan Crevier" wrote: > Many, many users upgraded from OE 4.5 to OE 5 without problems. Yes, but can they upgrade to Entourage 11 this Christmas? :) d*g From lomion at mac.com Sat Nov 15 12:33:02 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: mail feature request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 10:20 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > When reading mail from a pop account, optionally not download > attachments of type: [ .exe .pdf .tiff .gif .vcf .sig .pgp. .p7s > etc.]. > > While adding to that list I realized that, for me, a list of accepted > types might be a lot shorter: [ .jpg, .jpeg .txt (no type)]. > > Of course the attachment should be described (type and size) with an > option to download it. > This is not possible with POP3. The protocol simply does not support it. At the most you can tell your client to only download messages of X size automatically. --Larry From jmugnai at verizon.net Sat Nov 15 12:45:03 2003 From: jmugnai at verizon.net (Joe Mugnai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Apple Mail and attachments questions In-Reply-To: <0506FD36-1661-11D8-B99D-000393BE3178@syda.org> References: <200311132008.hADK8GhW025816@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <0506FD36-1661-11D8-B99D-000393BE3178@syda.org> Message-ID: <78D99E38-17AC-11D8-974C-0003938E8258@verizon.net> On Nov 14, 2003, at 12:11 AM, Jack (Shekhar) Stoller wrote: > Johannes, > > I believe the problem Jeremy is seeing is a different one. The setting > I think you are referring to is in Preferences > Viewing and controls > whether images are shown in an HTML message. > > I'm also having a problem where attachments, specifically Word and > Excel documents are not in the message. The text is there, the size of > the message is large, and viewing the raw source shows the encoded > attachment as a MIME part. > > The weird thing is that later on something happens and suddenly MAIL > shows the attachments. I'm still trying to figure out why and will > post if I do. Note that my first guess is that it only happens in a > message composed in Windows Outlook and transmitted through an > Exchange 2000 server. Furthermore, it seems to only affect Word and > Excel attachments. The raw source shows the following: > I am having the same problem with _all_ attachments when using Entrourage. (While I use Mail, I generally don't receive any messages with attachment on those accounts). This started happening in the past few months, as far as I can tell. When the message is first received, only the text comes through. The attachment generally comes through the _next_ time messages are received. Very rarely, attachments will not come through on the second receive. but they will always arrive eventually. I have been trying to track down the cause of this, but have no idea what it can be or whay it started. I am convinced that it is a server issue and not a client one. --Joe From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sat Nov 15 13:04:01 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Cool Software Update feature Message-ID: <186E020E-17AF-11D8-BCD3-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> I don't know if this has been commented or if it was here before Panzer (Panthwire? Panthwire? LIAR!) but a few days ago I cancelled my software update in the middle. Today I opened it up again in order to install the updates again and, to my surprise, after selecting "Keynote update 1.1.1" it said below "Partially downloaded at 36.8%". That's pretty cool if you ask me. Was it there in Shaguar? j. From surajrai at mac.com Sat Nov 15 13:24:02 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Cool Software Update feature In-Reply-To: <186E020E-17AF-11D8-BCD3-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> References: <186E020E-17AF-11D8-BCD3-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> Message-ID: On Nov 16, 2003, at 6:03 AM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > I don't know if this has been commented or if it was here before > Panzer (Panthwire? Panthwire? LIAR!) but a few days ago I cancelled my > software update in the middle. > > Today I opened it up again in order to install the updates again and, > to my surprise, after selecting "Keynote update 1.1.1" it said below > "Partially downloaded at 36.8%". I hope they add this to Safari too. IE on WinBlows does this pretty nicely. S.r. From ehrich at mninter.net Sat Nov 15 13:28:13 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Preview.app feature requests Message-ID: Continuous scrolling. Not just scrolling within a paper print page. Skipping large white space areas such as blank pages or pages that only say "this page left blank on purpose" would be nice too. Also for any text display program such as Safari: mark the bottom of the page before going to the next page with PgDn or , so that I can see where I was reading. -- Bill Ehrich From lomion at mac.com Sat Nov 15 13:39:02 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Preview.app feature requests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 4:27 PM, William Ehrich wrote: > Continuous scrolling. Not just scrolling within a paper print page. > > Skipping large white space areas such as blank pages or pages that > only say "this page left blank on purpose" would be nice too. > > > Also for any text display program such as Safari: mark the bottom of > the page before going to the next page with PgDn or , so that I > can see where I was reading. > > Can I ask why you are posting feature requests here? This is not a bug or feature request list from Apple... --Larry From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 15 13:54:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 19:34, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 6:34 PM +0000 11/15/03, Matt wrote: >>> Apple makes the iPod as a consumer device. >>> It would be in their best interest to make it as idiot proof as >>> possible on the things it has control over... like Mac OS X. >> >> It's an action that has to be chosen deliberately. > > Of course it is. > > So is: > > rm -rf / Yes, but we're not talking about that. We're talking about someone reformatting their iPod as HFS+ (Journaled) and losing data. I mean...didn't they think for a second to...um...back up the data on the iPod? >> Anything idiot-proof fails when shown to an actual idiot. And they do >> exist. > That's why the Mac OS has protections... so people don't do something > that could be very harmful. It's a matter of degrees. People do things all the time in Mac OS that are utterly stupid, causing data loss and requireing a lot of forethought and ignoring of alert boxes. >>> Or perhaps some people thing its a good thing that users could >>> easily blow away the iPod drive? >>> I'm not sure why there's a defense to be made here however. >> >> Then shut up. > > Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or something? It's a helpful suggestion if you don't want to see any more of this. M From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 15 13:57:08 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: mail feature request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Speaking of Mail features... Anyone have a solution for setting up an email address *without* any kind of incoming server settings? Mail in Panther requires an incoming server address and account.... which is no good for an email address that is a forwarded address. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 15 14:00:18 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <777EB396-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 19:59, Dan Crevier wrote: > On 11/15/03 9:53 AM, "Matt" wrote: > >> On 15 Nov 2003, at 17:44, Dan Crevier wrote: >>> Hey, let's get in a big argument about how you define "application"! >>> :-) >> >> Well, we know whose answer won't include "reliability" or "upgrade >> path". >> >> Still smarting from upgrading one luser from OE4.5 to OE5.. > > Huh? Many, many users upgraded from OE 4.5 to OE 5 without problems. I > don't > remember hearing any general complaints. What was the problem > upgrading? How about it refusing to read the mailboxes? Or the address book? How about having to use Eudora to move data from one version of Outlook to another? And the helpful suggestion, which I saw half a dozen times.... "Outlook did not finish importing your data, you can try importing again later" At this point there was swearing. Great advert though. For Eudora. From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 15 14:03:00 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <37BC00EE-17A9-11D8-AED9-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <7CAA373B-171C-11D8-9357-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <37BC00EE-17A9-11D8-AED9-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: On 15 Nov 2003, at 20:20, Lawrence Sica wrote: > On Nov 14, 2003, at 10:33 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:28 PM, Matt wrote: >>> Well, what's the difference between Apple hiding the smalls in OSX >>> (/usr, /etc, /bin) and Microsoft hiding the innards of the Windows >>> folder... >> I suspect a large amount of that stuff doesn't have to be present for >> Mac OS X to operate at the GUI level. Somebody could experiment with >> this by leaving the BSD subsystem out of the optional install and see >> what remains. > > You cannot do this. The BSD susbsystem is required. Then why is it a checkbox in the Installer? M From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 15 14:14:03 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: mail feature request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 15 Nov 2003, at 21:55, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > > Speaking of Mail features... > > Anyone have a solution for setting up an email address *without* any > kind of incoming server settings? > > Mail in Panther requires an incoming server address and account.... > which is no good for an email address that is a forwarded address. Pick one of your accounts - In Preferences, Account Information, add the email address you want to use. For example: pelorus@cimota.com, matt@nimug.org, redrum@lategaming.com Is in my entry for my account at PAIR Networks. From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 15 14:53:00 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: At 9:53 PM +0000 11/15/03, Matt wrote: >On 15 Nov 2003, at 19:34, Mark F. Murphy wrote: >>So is: >> >>rm -rf / > >Yes, but we're not talking about that. > >We're talking about someone reformatting their iPod as HFS+ >(Journaled) and losing data. I mean...didn't they think for a second >to...um...back up the data on the iPod? And we are also talking about whether or not Mac OS X should allow the user to damage their iPod in such a way. The concept of the Mac OS shielding users from bad decisions is a long one. I see no reason why that concept shouldn't be applied to the iPod on Mac OS X. >It's a matter of degrees. People do things all the time in Mac OS >that are utterly stupid, causing data loss and requireing a lot of >forethought and ignoring of alert boxes. That's very true. At least the OS tried to warn them. There's no guarantee the user won't ignore the warning or not understand the warning. However, the warning is at least better than simply going off and doing the function which could be harmful. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From markm at tyrell.com Sat Nov 15 14:58:14 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: mail feature request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:11 PM +0000 11/15/03, Matt wrote: >Pick one of your accounts - In Preferences, Account Information, add >the email address you want to use. > >For example: > >pelorus@cimota.com, matt@nimug.org, redrum@lategaming.com > >Is in my entry for my account at PAIR Networks. Cool. Thanks. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 15 15:29:00 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <694E19A6-17C3-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 22:52, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > And we are also talking about whether or not Mac OS X should allow the > user to damage their iPod in such a way. It's not damaged is it? Surely a reformat in the correct format? > The concept of the Mac OS shielding users from bad decisions is a long > one. > I see no reason why that concept shouldn't be applied to the iPod on > Mac OS X. Well, no data loss. What's the problem? >> It's a matter of degrees. People do things all the time in Mac OS >> that are utterly stupid, causing data loss and requireing a lot of >> forethought and ignoring of alert boxes. > That's very true. > At least the OS tried to warn them. That's not true at all. In many cases the OS just sits and lets them do whatever idiotic thing they decide. > There's no guarantee the user won't ignore the warning or not > understand the warning. However, the warning is at least better than > simply going off and doing the function which could be harmful. As I say, warnings are not ubiquitous. You can render a system non-bootable in a couple of easy steps with a complete absence of warnings. M From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 15 15:39:04 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9BA25920-17C4-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 10:53, Dan Crevier wrote: > On 11/14/03 11:54 PM, "Lukreme" wrote: >>> More database features in the file system is a good thing. >> >> You *KNOW* Apple is working on some sort of DBFS. They hired >> wasisname >> from Be, right? I doubt he's sweeping floors. >> >> Now, as for waht we will get...that remains to be seen. I know the >> trouble is intigrating a new DBFS into OS X so that everything still >> works right. That will be quite a trick. >> >> MSFT, on the other hand, will create winFS, discover that every ap on >> the planet will break, so they will munge WinFS so it sorta keeps >> working with current aps, while sacraficing all the advantages of >> WinFS >> in the process. > > That's complete nonsense. Sure. But it's exactly what happened with NTFS. > WinFS is designed to work seemlessly with older apps. Sure. But it's exactly what happened with NTFS. > The old apps don't even know they are sitting on top of WinFS. Sure they do, as soon as they try to do something that assumes they have root privs, like most win apps now still have to be installed with an Admin account and many many many only work if you are an Admin account and far too many work only if you are _THE_ Admin account. > Microsoft has released a version of Longhorn to 3rd party developers > already, so they can start investigating any compatibility issues. I'll believe it when I see it, but I doubt very seriously I will ever see it. -- "Hi Dad! It's 3am, do you know where I am?" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/47670bb9/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 15 15:44:29 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Cool Software Update feature In-Reply-To: <186E020E-17AF-11D8-BCD3-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> References: <186E020E-17AF-11D8-BCD3-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> Message-ID: <77A9845F-17C5-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 14:03, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > That's pretty cool if you ask me. Was it there in Shaguar? Nope, don't think so. I had to bail onthe 10.2.6 update a few times and it always restarted. -- and I swear it happened just like this: / a sigh, a cry, a hungry kiss / the Gates of Love they budged an inch / I can't say much has happened since / but CLOSING TIME -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/00effb61/smime.bin From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Sat Nov 15 15:52:01 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <777EB396-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 11/15/03 1:55 PM, "Matt" wrote: > On 15 Nov 2003, at 19:59, Dan Crevier wrote: > >> On 11/15/03 9:53 AM, "Matt" wrote: >> >>> On 15 Nov 2003, at 17:44, Dan Crevier wrote: >>>> Hey, let's get in a big argument about how you define "application"! >>>> :-) >>> >>> Well, we know whose answer won't include "reliability" or "upgrade >>> path". >>> >>> Still smarting from upgrading one luser from OE4.5 to OE5.. >> >> Huh? Many, many users upgraded from OE 4.5 to OE 5 without problems. I >> don't >> remember hearing any general complaints. What was the problem >> upgrading? > > How about it refusing to read the mailboxes? Or the address book? > > How about having to use Eudora to move data from one version of Outlook > to another? > > And the helpful suggestion, which I saw half a dozen times.... > > "Outlook did not finish importing your data, you can try importing > again later" > > At this point there was swearing. > > Great advert though. For Eudora. Do you mean Outlook or Outlook Express? I haven't heard of any other people having this problem. If you still care, I might be able to help you troubleshoot it (offlist). Dan From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Sat Nov 15 15:56:01 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: <9BA25920-17C4-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 11/15/03 3:36 PM, "Lukreme" wrote: > On 15 Nov 2003, at 10:53, Dan Crevier wrote: >> On 11/14/03 11:54 PM, "Lukreme" wrote: >>>> More database features in the file system is a good thing. >>> >>> You *KNOW* Apple is working on some sort of DBFS. They hired >>> wasisname >>> from Be, right? I doubt he's sweeping floors. >>> >>> Now, as for waht we will get...that remains to be seen. I know the >>> trouble is intigrating a new DBFS into OS X so that everything still >>> works right. That will be quite a trick. >>> >>> MSFT, on the other hand, will create winFS, discover that every ap on >>> the planet will break, so they will munge WinFS so it sorta keeps >>> working with current aps, while sacraficing all the advantages of >>> WinFS >>> in the process. >> >> That's complete nonsense. > > Sure. But it's exactly what happened with NTFS. > >> WinFS is designed to work seemlessly with older apps. > > Sure. But it's exactly what happened with NTFS. > >> The old apps don't even know they are sitting on top of WinFS. > > Sure they do, as soon as they try to do something that assumes they > have root privs, like most win apps now still have to be installed with > an Admin account and many many many only work if you are an Admin > account and far too many work only if you are _THE_ Admin account. What does admin access have to do with WinFS? >> Microsoft has released a version of Longhorn to 3rd party developers >> already, so they can start investigating any compatibility issues. > > I'll believe it when I see it, but I doubt very seriously I will ever > see it. If you care to, just join msdn. Dan From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 15 15:58:58 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <37BC00EE-17A9-11D8-AED9-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <7CAA373B-171C-11D8-9357-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <37BC00EE-17A9-11D8-AED9-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: On 15 Nov 2003, at 13:20, Lawrence Sica wrote: > On Nov 14, 2003, at 10:33 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:28 PM, Matt wrote: >> >>> Well, what's the difference between Apple hiding the smalls in OSX >>> (/usr, /etc, /bin) and Microsoft hiding the innards of the Windows >>> folder... >> >> I suspect a large amount of that stuff doesn't have to be present for >> Mac OS X to operate at the GUI level. Somebody could experiment with >> this by leaving the BSD subsystem out of the optional install and see >> what remains. > > You cannot do this. The BSD susbsystem is required. Check the option on a Panther install. There is a 280MB (IIRC) optional install of "BSD Subsystem" In fact, if you just pop in your CD1 od Panther and open "Mac OS X Install Disc 1/Welcome to Mac OS X/Optional Installs" you will see a single file, "BSD Subsystem" -- Use your key, unlock the door, see what fate might have in store. Come explore your dreams and Creations, Enter the world of imagination. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/fbd8be51/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 15 16:02:31 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:27 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 15 Nov 2003, at 11:25, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 5:27 PM +0000 11/15/03, Matt wrote: >> On 15 Nov 2003, at 16:53, Mark F. Murphy wrote: >> >>>> If you can find anything where Apple sets the iPod to be journaled >>>> then yes, that is a concern. However, the iPod drive is NOT >>>> journaled by default and it would take user action to journal it. >>> >>> A user action which should not be allowed *if* the iPod cannot >>> handle the format. I'd also suggest users should be protected from >>> formatting the iPod drive to something other than a format the >>> device itself can manipulate. >> >> Well, shouldn't this be in all hard drive mechanisms? After all, >> pre-8.1 clients can't read HFS+.... >> >> Evidently that would be an OSX problem as well. > > Apple makes the iPod as a consumer device. > > It would be in their best interest to make it as idiot proof as > possible on the things it has control over... like Mac OS X. If you make something idiot proof nature generates a better idiot. using a disk utility to manipulate the filesystem setting on the iPod is ceratnly not something I've ever seen recommended, suggested, or even hinted at. > Or perhaps some people thing its a good thing that users could easily > blow away the iPod drive? The Disk Utility sees the ipod as a simple Firewire device. I'm sure if you reformatted the ipod, removing all the "ipodness" and made it simply a firewire drive with no embedded OS that journaling would work just fine, as it does on my firewire HD. -- I said pretend you've got no money, she just laughed and said, 'Eh, you're so funny.' I said, 'Yeah? Well I can't see anyone else smiling in here.' -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/6e253092/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 15 16:10:23 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <3196A17E-17A6-11D8-9DFD-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <3196A17E-17A6-11D8-9DFD-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> Message-ID: <0A59BCE0-17C8-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 12:59, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > Oh geezus. This is probably the most annoying and boring thread EVER > in bitch. Oh sure, you say that NOW. > - Some people say Apple should have made the OS so it won't allow you > to enable journaling on iPod, knowing that it won't work with iPod. > - Some other people say the user should be aware of that and not > enable journaling. Actually it's: - Some people think that journaling not working on the iPod is a Mac OS X bug - Some people think that journaling not working on the iPod is a iPod limitation that has nothing to do with OS X. > Is that it? Just that? Can we move on more important matters? Like, > for example, you know, I liked Revolutions and everything. Still haven't seen it :( -- I can't die, I haven't seen The Jolson Story - Jetboy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/f931edd7/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 15 16:17:01 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: mail feature request In-Reply-To: <8E453112-1790-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <8E453112-1790-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: <34BD98EC-17C9-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 10:24, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > On 15 Nov 2003, at 18:11, Thomas Vincent wrote: >>> When reading mail from a pop account, optionally not download >>> attachments of type: [ .exe .pdf .tiff .gif .vcf .sig .pgp. >>> .p7s etc.]. >> >> It would be nice if you could configure mail.app to decide which >> attachment types you didn't want to download, and if it would verify >> pgp and or encrypt/decrypt pgp. > > Surely it has to download the mail to decode it and see what the > attachment is. Yep, it sure does. the only thing that mail could do differently is look at the Content-type header first, but that will generally only tell you things like: multipart/signed multipart/mixed text/plain etc. It won't tell you the kinds of attachments untill you download the body of the message. -- Today the road all runners come/Shoulder high we bring you home. And set you at your threshold down/Townsman of a stiller town. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/034f6a62/smime.bin From joar at joar.com Sat Nov 15 16:21:33 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6742A28C-17CA-11D8-BC31-000393D4AB70@joar.com> I've also seen that a great number of times with OE. I'm not sure that it is related to this particular problem, but I'm fairly sure that you need the older version of the application on the disc in order to be able to import the mailboxes into a newer version... Moving from one language version of OE / Entourage to another is also incredibly painful, since OE / Entourage 1) localize the names of *all* files (not just at the top level) in the "application support folders" and 2) don't provide the ability to "import" from a different localized version - so the user ends up having to rename all files and folders manually... Why would you need to do that you might ask? Outside of the English speaking world, it is often the case that 1) New versions appear much, much, faster in English than in the local language - if they ever get localized, and 2) The English versions often have fewer bugs than the localized versions. I just had to move my father-in-law over to the US/English version of Office, since the Swedish version crashed and corrupted documents all the time. This in turned forced me to have to - over the phone - walk him through the process of renaming all the mailbox files for Entourage from Swedish to English... Thank $DEITY I'm not working with support any more... j o a r On 2003-11-16, at 00.49, Dan Crevier wrote: > Do you mean Outlook or Outlook Express? I haven't heard of any other > people > having this problem. If you still care, I might be able to help you > troubleshoot it (offlist). From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Sat Nov 15 16:35:01 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <6742A28C-17CA-11D8-BC31-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: On 11/15/03 4:18 PM, "j o a r" wrote: > I've also seen that a great number of times with OE. I'm not sure that > it is related to this particular problem, but I'm fairly sure that you > need the older version of the application on the disc in order to be > able to import the mailboxes into a newer version... > > Moving from one language version of OE / Entourage to another is also > incredibly painful, since OE / Entourage 1) localize the names of *all* > files (not just at the top level) in the "application support folders" > and 2) don't provide the ability to "import" from a different localized > version - so the user ends up having to rename all files and folders > manually... > > Why would you need to do that you might ask? Outside of the English > speaking world, it is often the case that 1) New versions appear much, > much, faster in English than in the local language - if they ever get > localized, and 2) The English versions often have fewer bugs than the > localized versions. > I just had to move my father-in-law over to the US/English version of > Office, since the Swedish version crashed and corrupted documents all > the time. This in turned forced me to have to - over the phone - walk > him through the process of renaming all the mailbox files for Entourage > from Swedish to English... We've improved the localization issue for the next major release. I agree that the current behavior is lame. Dan From fabienlroy at mac.com Sat Nov 15 17:25:02 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <99FC5C56-17D3-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Could you tell me what is the advantage of a journaling file system? I was (maybe mistakenly) told that a journaling FS will be immune to accidental removal (without un-mounting it first). Removing without unmounting the volume is most likely to happen on the iPod. Also you don't have to reformat a volume to turn on journaling. Thanks for your patience. Fabien On Nov 15, 2003, at 1:53 PM, Matt wrote: > Yes, but we're not talking about that. > > We're talking about someone reformatting their iPod as HFS+ > (Journaled) and losing data. I mean...didn't they think for a second > to...um...back up the data on the iPod? From shawnce at mac.com Sat Nov 15 17:46:24 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <99FC5C56-17D3-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <99FC5C56-17D3-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <7D9C9EB0-17D6-11D8-9AC1-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Nov 15, 2003, at 5:24 PM, Fabien Roy wrote: > Could you tell me what is the advantage of a journaling file system? > I was (maybe mistakenly) told that a journaling FS will be immune to > accidental removal (without un-mounting it first). Removing without > unmounting the volume is most likely to happen on the iPod. Also you > don't have to reformat a volume to turn on journaling. The purpose of journaling files systems is to allow for quick file system recovery in the event of a crash, power failure, etc. Traditionally after such an event you would have to run a file system repair tool to scan for possible inconsistencies in the file system because of unsaved changes that got lost. This can take a lot of time and isn't guaranteed to identify correctly what is wrong with the file system or how it should be fixed. Roughly speaking... Journaling adds, well a journal, to the file system. This journal is updated with the set of changes that need to be made to the file system (Panther only journals file system data not file data) and the journal is written out to disk before any changes are made to the file system meta data. Then the system proceeds to update the file system. Now if something happens, like a power-loss, while the file system is being updated (the data is spread across countless disk blocks) your file system is now in an inconsistent state. However the journal, which was written to disk before anything was updated, has a record of what was being done. So the file system recovery tool only needs to evaluate what the journal says and compare that to the file system to understand, rather quickly and correctly, what needs to be fixed. If nothing bad happens while the file system is being updated the journal is cleared of entries because the entries are know to correctly reflected in the file system on disk. -Shawn From chad at objectwerks.com Sat Nov 15 18:31:01 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <0A59BCE0-17C8-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <3196A17E-17A6-11D8-9DFD-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <0A59BCE0-17C8-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 5:01 PM, Lukreme wrote: > On 15 Nov 2003, at 12:59, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > >> - Some people say Apple should have made the OS so it won't allow you >> to enable journaling on iPod, knowing that it won't work with iPod. >> - Some other people say the user should be aware of that and not >> enable journaling. > > Actually it's: > > - Some people think that journaling not working on the iPod is a Mac > OS X bug > - Some people think that journaling not working on the iPod is a iPod > limitation that has nothing to do with OS X. I think you do not understand what some of us have said. I don't really remember how this thread started, but a few of us have said: When used in target disk mode, if the iPod does not work with journaling, it is either a bug in OS X or the iPod. Target disk mode should make it look just like any firewire disk. If enabling journaling makes the iPod internal OS not like the disk later when you try and use it as an iPod again, that is a different question and matter. Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Sat Nov 15 18:38:01 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <37BC00EE-17A9-11D8-AED9-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <7CAA373B-171C-11D8-9357-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <37BC00EE-17A9-11D8-AED9-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 1:20 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > > On Nov 14, 2003, at 10:33 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > >> >> On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:28 PM, Matt wrote: >> >>> Well, what's the difference between Apple hiding the smalls in OSX >>> (/usr, /etc, /bin) and Microsoft hiding the innards of the Windows >>> folder... >> >> I suspect a large amount of that stuff doesn't have to be present for >> Mac OS X to operate at the GUI level. Somebody could experiment with >> this by leaving the BSD subsystem out of the optional install and see >> what remains. >> > > You cannot do this. The BSD susbsystem is required. Then why is it listed in the optional installs with a checkbox next to it that you can uncheck? Chad From shawnce at mac.com Sat Nov 15 18:48:01 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <7CAA373B-171C-11D8-9357-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <37BC00EE-17A9-11D8-AED9-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: <290C22CE-17DF-11D8-9AC1-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Nov 15, 2003, at 6:37 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > On Nov 15, 2003, at 1:20 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > >> >> On Nov 14, 2003, at 10:33 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> >>> >>> On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:28 PM, Matt wrote: >>> >>>> Well, what's the difference between Apple hiding the smalls in OSX >>>> (/usr, /etc, /bin) and Microsoft hiding the innards of the Windows >>>> folder... >>> >>> I suspect a large amount of that stuff doesn't have to be present >>> for Mac OS X to operate at the GUI level. Somebody could experiment >>> with this by leaving the BSD subsystem out of the optional install >>> and see what remains. >>> >> >> You cannot do this. The BSD susbsystem is required. > > Then why is it listed in the optional installs with a checkbox next to > it that you can uncheck? You are both correct but are talking about slightly different things. The BSD part of the kernel is required for Mac OS X to function as is several BSD derived user mode items. Apple does allow one to selectively install BSD derived user tools (I believe this includes Terminal.app). Not installing this optional item doesn't rip BSD out of Mac OS X, just some of the tools. -Shawn From kremels at kreme.com Sat Nov 15 18:51:06 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <3196A17E-17A6-11D8-9DFD-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <0A59BCE0-17C8-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 15 Nov 2003, at 19:30, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > I think you do not understand what some of us have said. I don't > really remember how this thread started, but a few of us have said: > On 13 Nov 2003, at 21:51, Fabien Roy wrote: >> On Nov 13, 2003, at 8:19 PM, Cyril Niklaus wrote: >>> On 14 nov. 03, at 12:08, Lukreme wrote: >>>> On 11 Nov 2003, at 10:57, Laubenthal, Neil, CTR, OSD-NII wrote: >>>>> journaling has caused some problems . . . best for now to >>>>> turn it off until it gets fixed. >>>> Bull. Have had it on since 10.2 was released. It has never caused >>>> a problem. >>> Yeah, I've also been using since it was available on several HDs >>> without a problem at all. Where do you get those ideas from? Can you >>> substantiate those claims? >> Used journaling on my new iPod, lost everything. I had to put the >> iPod on direct firewire mode. The iPod would endlessly cycle on data >> verification after an abrupt disconnect. > When used in target disk mode, if the iPod does not work with > journaling, it is either a bug in OS X or the iPod. Target disk mode > should make it look just like any firewire disk. If enabling > journaling makes the iPod internal OS not like the disk later when you > try and use it as an iPod again, that is a different question and > matter. Except there is no target disk mode on the ipod. -- I listen to the wind, to the wind of my soul From fabienlroy at mac.com Sat Nov 15 19:13:02 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <3196A17E-17A6-11D8-9DFD-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <0A59BCE0-17C8-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: Wrong. You can force the iPod in FireWire mode only. > With the iPod not connected, do a reset. Press the Menu and Pause/Play > buttons until the Apple log comes up. At the Apple logo, press the FF > and Rew buttons. or: > On Nov 15, 2003, at 6:50 PM, Lukreme wrote: > Except there is no target disk mode on the ipod. From ehrich at mninter.net Sat Nov 15 19:22:01 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: mail feature request In-Reply-To: <34BD98EC-17C9-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <8E453112-1790-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> <34BD98EC-17C9-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: >>>>When reading mail from a pop account, optionally not download >>>>attachments of type: [ .exe .pdf .tiff .gif .vcf .sig .pgp. >>>>.p7s etc.]. >It won't tell you the kinds of attachments until you download the >body of the message. So download the body first. I would still like to be spared down loading 40k of beautifully decorated ad for discount Viagra, or the .exe file that I wouldn't want to run even if I could. And remembering to run mail-cleaner to clean up my Eudora down-load directory. -- Bill Ehrich From dave at difference.com.au Sat Nov 15 19:27:22 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: OE was Re: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <777EB396-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <777EB396-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: At 9:55 PM +0000 15/11/03, Matt wrote: >On 15 Nov 2003, at 19:59, Dan Crevier wrote: > >>On 11/15/03 9:53 AM, "Matt" wrote: >> >>>On 15 Nov 2003, at 17:44, Dan Crevier wrote: >>>>Hey, let's get in a big argument about how you define "application"! >>>>:-) >>> >>>Well, we know whose answer won't include "reliability" or "upgrade >>>path". >>> >>>Still smarting from upgrading one luser from OE4.5 to OE5.. >> >>Huh? Many, many users upgraded from OE 4.5 to OE 5 without problems. I don't >>remember hearing any general complaints. What was the problem upgrading? > >How about it refusing to read the mailboxes? Or the address book? > >How about having to use Eudora to move data from one version of >Outlook to another? > >And the helpful suggestion, which I saw half a dozen times.... > >"Outlook did not finish importing your data, you can try importing >again later" > >At this point there was swearing. > >Great advert though. For Eudora. Still trying to work out how to move a user off OE 4.5 so they can use a mail client that doesn't need classic - both Mail and Eudora crash trying to import it. I wish no one I ever had to deal with had ever used OE - when the time comes to move mail into or out of it, its usually ugly. Cheers David From mis-jack at syda.org Sat Nov 15 21:15:11 2003 From: mis-jack at syda.org (Jack Stoller (Shekhar)) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <200311152009.hAFK9EhW011299@slowbro.omnigroup.com> References: <200311152009.hAFK9EhW011299@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <98BEC488-17F3-11D8-B99D-000393BE3178@syda.org> I think where Apple is remiss is not having Disk Utility recognize that it's an iPod (assuming that is possible) and refuse to activate journaling. Given that the OS that runs the iPod is not MacOS in any form, it may make certain assumptions about the structure of HFS+ that is broken by activating journaling. Of course, Apple could update the iPod's OS, and probably should, to account for that but getting that update on the million+ iPods out there to avoid this problem is not very practical. Jack On Nov 15, 2003, at 3:09 PM, macosx-talk-request@omnigroup.com wrote: > Cc: macosx-talk@omnigroup.com > From: Fabien Roy > Subject: Re: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) > Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 00:20:59 -0800 > To: Lukreme > > Wow! So loss of data under OS X on an iPod is not an OS X problem. > Thanks for the enlightenment. I really feel educated now... > > Fabien > > On Nov 14, 2003, at 11:58 PM, Lukreme wrote: > >> 4) iPod problems with HFS+ Journaling are not "OS X" problems. > From mic at micmac.com Sat Nov 15 21:19:19 2003 From: mic at micmac.com (Michel Coste) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Cool Software Update feature In-Reply-To: <186E020E-17AF-11D8-BCD3-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> Message-ID: <7A31CE23-17F3-11D8-BBBB-000502478B8F@micmac.com> The partial download was already in Jaguar but not the mention of it. At least in the download to desktop (since it's the option I MUST always use being on POTS?) On Saturday, November 15, 2003, at 10:03 PM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > I don't know if this has been commented or if it was here before > Panzer (Panthwire? Panthwire? LIAR!) but a few days ago I cancelled my > software update in the middle. > > Today I opened it up again in order to install the updates again and, > to my surprise, after selecting "Keynote update 1.1.1" it said below > "Partially downloaded at 36.8%". > > That's pretty cool if you ask me. Was it there in Shaguar? > > j. > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > mc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/1a3074b5/PGP.bin From mic at micmac.com Sat Nov 15 21:21:06 2003 From: mic at micmac.com (Michel Coste) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Cool Software Update feature In-Reply-To: <77A9845F-17C5-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <0D101289-17F4-11D8-BBBB-000502478B8F@micmac.com> You should have used the download to desktop menu option. On Sunday, November 16, 2003, at 12:43 AM, Lukreme wrote: > Nope, don't think so. I had to bail onthe 10.2.6 update a few times > and it always restarted. > > mc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031115/4404a962/PGP.bin From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Sat Nov 15 21:36:01 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: OE was Re: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 11/15/03 7:23 PM, "David Cake" wrote: > At 9:55 PM +0000 15/11/03, Matt wrote: >> On 15 Nov 2003, at 19:59, Dan Crevier wrote: >> >>> On 11/15/03 9:53 AM, "Matt" wrote: >>> >>>> On 15 Nov 2003, at 17:44, Dan Crevier wrote: >>>>> Hey, let's get in a big argument about how you define "application"! >>>>> :-) >>>> >>>> Well, we know whose answer won't include "reliability" or "upgrade >>>> path". >>>> >>>> Still smarting from upgrading one luser from OE4.5 to OE5.. >>> >>> Huh? Many, many users upgraded from OE 4.5 to OE 5 without problems. I don't >>> remember hearing any general complaints. What was the problem upgrading? >> >> How about it refusing to read the mailboxes? Or the address book? >> >> How about having to use Eudora to move data from one version of >> Outlook to another? >> >> And the helpful suggestion, which I saw half a dozen times.... >> >> "Outlook did not finish importing your data, you can try importing >> again later" >> >> At this point there was swearing. >> >> Great advert though. For Eudora. > > Still trying to work out how to move a user off OE 4.5 so > they can use a mail client that doesn't need classic - both Mail and > Eudora crash trying to import it. How can you blame OE for crashes in other apps when trying to import? OE provides full scripting support to the mail and it's very straightforward to get your mail out. Dan From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 16 00:15:04 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: mail feature request In-Reply-To: References: <8E453112-1790-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> <34BD98EC-17C9-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 10:20 PM, William Ehrich wrote: >>>>> When reading mail from a pop account, optionally not download >>>>> attachments of type: [ .exe .pdf .tiff .gif .vcf .sig .pgp. >>>>> .p7s etc.]. > >> It won't tell you the kinds of attachments until you download the >> body of the message. > > So download the body first. I would still like to be spared down > loading 40k of beautifully decorated ad for discount Viagra, or the > .exe file that I wouldn't want to run even if I could. And remembering > to run mail-cleaner to clean up my Eudora down-load directory. > The way an email is constructed the attachment is part of the body. So you need to dl the whole thing to tell that. The only way around this would be to rewrite pop3 to be more like imap or completely alter how email takes place completely so pop3 could do it. Neither is realistic. --Larry From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 16 00:19:03 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <7CAA373B-171C-11D8-9357-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <37BC00EE-17A9-11D8-AED9-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: <250955DA-180D-11D8-93D7-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 15, 2003, at 4:57 PM, Matt wrote: > > On 15 Nov 2003, at 20:20, Lawrence Sica wrote: > >> On Nov 14, 2003, at 10:33 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >>> On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:28 PM, Matt wrote: >>>> Well, what's the difference between Apple hiding the smalls in OSX >>>> (/usr, /etc, /bin) and Microsoft hiding the innards of the Windows >>>> folder... >>> I suspect a large amount of that stuff doesn't have to be present >>> for Mac OS X to operate at the GUI level. Somebody could experiment >>> with this by leaving the BSD subsystem out of the optional install >>> and see what remains. >> >> You cannot do this. The BSD susbsystem is required. > > Then why is it a checkbox in the Installer? > I'd have to recheck, but i know for a fact there are bits of BSD that you have to install as os x cannot work without them. By memory that checkbox was always greyed out. I should look at it again. --Larry From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 16 00:22:16 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: <290C22CE-17DF-11D8-9AC1-000A95A6C778@mac.com> References: <16C54D21-16CB-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <23A83788-16E7-11D8-881E-003065C4548E@mac.com> <738877F0-16E9-11D8-AC9D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <7CAA373B-171C-11D8-9357-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <37BC00EE-17A9-11D8-AED9-000393A335A2@mac.com> <290C22CE-17DF-11D8-9AC1-000A95A6C778@mac.com> Message-ID: <5A77B412-180D-11D8-93D7-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 15, 2003, at 9:47 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > > On Nov 15, 2003, at 6:37 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > >> >> On Nov 15, 2003, at 1:20 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: >> >>> >>> On Nov 14, 2003, at 10:33 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 14, 2003, at 1:28 PM, Matt wrote: >>>> >>>>> Well, what's the difference between Apple hiding the smalls in OSX >>>>> (/usr, /etc, /bin) and Microsoft hiding the innards of the Windows >>>>> folder... >>>> >>>> I suspect a large amount of that stuff doesn't have to be present >>>> for Mac OS X to operate at the GUI level. Somebody could experiment >>>> with this by leaving the BSD subsystem out of the optional install >>>> and see what remains. >>>> >>> >>> You cannot do this. The BSD susbsystem is required. >> >> Then why is it listed in the optional installs with a checkbox next >> to it that you can uncheck? > > You are both correct but are talking about slightly different things. > The BSD part of the kernel is required for Mac OS X to function as is > several BSD derived user mode items. > > Apple does allow one to selectively install BSD derived user tools (I > believe this includes Terminal.app). Not installing this optional item > doesn't rip BSD out of Mac OS X, just some of the tools. > Yeah, that is what I was thinking of, certain things cannot be removed. I am curious what is in the optional now, I'll have to crack open the package and see --Larry From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 16 00:23:45 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: mail feature request In-Reply-To: References: <8E453112-1790-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> <34BD98EC-17C9-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <7ADAA898-180D-11D8-B821-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 20:20, William Ehrich wrote: >>>>> When reading mail from a pop account, optionally not download >>>>> attachments of type: [ .exe .pdf .tiff .gif .vcf .sig .pgp. >>>>> .p7s etc.]. > >> It won't tell you the kinds of attachments until you download the >> body of the message. > > So download the body first. I would still like to be spared down > loading 40k of beautifully decorated ad for discount Viagra, or the > .exe file that I wouldn't want to run even if I could. And remembering > to run mail-cleaner to clean up my Eudora down-load directory. The body _IS_ the 40K of html and the exe file. YARTUI (Yet Another Reason To Use Imap) -- One by one the bulbs burned out, like long lives come to their expected ends. From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 16 00:26:30 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Cool Software Update feature In-Reply-To: <0D101289-17F4-11D8-BBBB-000502478B8F@micmac.com> References: <0D101289-17F4-11D8-BBBB-000502478B8F@micmac.com> Message-ID: On 15 Nov 2003, at 22:16, Michel Coste wrote: > On Sunday, November 16, 2003, at 12:43 AM, Lukreme wrote: >> Nope, don't think so. I had to bail onthe 10.2.6 update a few times >> and it always restarted. > You should have used the download to desktop menu option. At 200K/s it really didn't matter much. -- "Ironically, they lost the gigahertz game," he said of Intel. "(The G5) is extremely faster than the Itanium II, hands down." - Srinidhi Varadarajan, Virginia Tech From mmalc_lists at mac.com Sun Nov 16 01:30:01 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> Message-ID: <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:59 AM, Steve Sobek wrote: > He offers no proof or details on why -- or how -- this is so. > This excerpt from may give more insight. There are a number of other entries which give more background on the chap himself. See in particular, for example, "About Apple enthusiasm vs. tech enthusiasm" (Monday, October 13, 2003). The journalist doth protest too much, methinks... mmalc Saturday, October 04, 2003 XP user interface (task-based, iterative) vs. OS X user interface (1985 desktop GUI) Mac-using readers continue to confuse what I mean by XP's task-based, iterative user interface and why it's superior to the basic desktop GUI used by Mac OS X, a UI that hasn't changed appreciably since 1985. Here's a response I provided via email to such a reader, who noted that OS X has stand-alone apps, not "things that are trying to be part of the OS." I think he missed the point... The iApps are pretty good overall (I love iTunes; iPhoto is OK). But there are no task-based or iterative interfaces in Mac OS X. You're thinking at too low a level. In fact, you're thinking like a Mac users, about applications, and not about the system as a whole. On the Mac, you have to connect applictions with tasks in your head. As an experienced user, you do this without thinking. But this can be confusing to many people, especially computer neophytes. For example, you want to print a photo. How do you do it? Do you manually find the photo in the shell and double-click it, hoping the app that launches can print, and that you can find that functionality? Or do you "think" of an app you want to use, launch that, and then find the photo from the app? (I realize you know how to do this. I'm considering the wider range of computer users out there.) In XP, there are special folders exposed through the Start Menu that make handling photos, music, and other documents simple. When you launch these (and other) folders--directly from the Start Menu that Mac users think to be so silly--you'll see good examples of the task-based aspect of XP in action. Select a photo, open a folder full of photos, or whatever, and you'll see a list of tasks applicable to those file types. Including print. You don't have to worry about the app. There's nothing like this in OS X, which make you think app first. An odd approach: Shouldn't the computer do the heavy lifting? The other side of the interface difference is iteration. XP's UI is also iterative where possible, which means it presents step-by-step lists, or wizards, to help users accomplish tasks. The Scanner and Camera Wizard is a perfect example: Simply plug-in a camera, scanner, digital memory card or CD with photos, or a similar device and the wizard appears, stepping you through the process. You get wonderful fine-grained control over which pictures you import, whether they're deleted from the source, where they're put on your system, and how their named. Now compare this to OS X, where an app, iPhoto launches. What now? The "import" button is highlighted, but there's no information at all about what you're doing, and no step-by-step help to guide you through the process (iPhoto also has other limits; you can't easily import only certain photos for example). By default, you must be sophisticated. This makes OS X harder to use than XP for normal people. I've only highlighted the differences between a specific activity on both systems, but it's an obvious one (and one where Mac users always assume their experience is somehow better, when it isn't). But a task-based, iterative UI has nothing to do with bundling applications, it has to do with helping users accomplish the tasks they need to do, both frequently and infrequently, regardless of which apps they want to use. posted 12:21 PM From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 16 01:35:14 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <21BAB8DA-1818-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 15 Nov 2003, at 23:49, Dan Crevier wrote: > On 11/15/03 1:55 PM, "Matt" wrote: >> How about it refusing to read the mailboxes? Or the address book? >> >> How about having to use Eudora to move data from one version of >> Outlook >> to another? >> >> And the helpful suggestion, which I saw half a dozen times.... >> >> "Outlook did not finish importing your data, you can try importing >> again later" >> >> At this point there was swearing. >> >> Great advert though. For Eudora. > > Do you mean Outlook or Outlook Express? I'd have thought that was obvious. And I even tried bringing them forward to Entourage. No go. In the end the guy "settled" for Mail because at least it would import the damn messages and address book. > I haven't heard of any other people > having this problem. If you still care, I might be able to help you > troubleshoot it (offlist). I found an effective way to troubleshoot it. Using Eudora. The other way is to spend my spare time campaigning for people not to touch Outlook/Outlook Express/Entourage. I'm not interested in wasting your time troubleshooting it. Please spend that time making Office 11 not suck. From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 16 01:39:07 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <99FC5C56-17D3-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <99FC5C56-17D3-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <8D33E0C4-1818-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 16 Nov 2003, at 01:24, Fabien Roy wrote: > Could you tell me what is the advantage of a journaling file system? > I was (maybe mistakenly) told that a journaling FS will be immune to > accidental removal (without un-mounting it first). Removing without > unmounting the volume is most likely to happen on the iPod. That's true. and it sucks that the Pod doesn't support HFS+ (Journaled) yet but them's the breaks. > Also you don't have to reformat a volume to turn on journaling. No, but you'd be an ass if you made a change like that to a disk an didn't back up first. I mean... It's called common sense. From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 16 01:43:36 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: OE was Re: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: <777EB396-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <2A9ACC9A-1819-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 16 Nov 2003, at 03:23, David Cake wrote: > Still trying to work out how to move a user off OE 4.5 so they can > use a mail client that doesn't need classic - both Mail and Eudora > crash trying to import it. That's exactly the experience I had except Eudora would get the stuff. You had to import the address book separately from the data to get it to move. OE5.02 would just fail to import anything. And exporting the contacts in OE4.5 would just leave a badly formatted text file that NOTHING could interpret in any sane way. > I wish no one I ever had to deal with had ever used OE - when the > time comes to move mail into or out of it, its usually ugly. It's my opinion that the bastard who wrote that application should be taken out and shot. At least with certain other mail applications the Mailboxes can be read with a text editor. From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 16 01:47:57 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: OE was Re: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 16 Nov 2003, at 05:35, Dan Crevier wrote: >> Still trying to work out how to move a user off OE 4.5 so >> they can use a mail client that doesn't need classic - both Mail and >> Eudora crash trying to import it. > > How can you blame OE for crashes in other apps when trying to import? > OE > provides full scripting support to the mail and it's very > straightforward to > get your mail out. Go on David, try OE5.02. See if it imports better. It probably won't crash but then again it refused to import anything either. I think Dan's answer here just indicates the company line and not his personal feelings (because we know Dan is a nice bloke in a difficult position): "We don't give a flying monkeys that your precious data is stuck on our proprietary file format. We're going to dump the Mac after the next version anyway. You can kiss my ass if you think we'll fix it without your credit card number" M From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Sun Nov 16 01:55:15 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: <01B5794B-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <01B5794B-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <20031116095131.GB10447@Dark-Age.local> On Sat, Nov 15, 2003 at 12:54:57AM -0700, Lukreme wrote: : : On 14 Nov 2003, at 22:35, David Cake wrote: : > : > More database features in the file system is a good thing. : : You *KNOW* Apple is working on some sort of DBFS. They hired wasisname : from Be, right? I doubt he's sweeping floors. Dominic Giampaolo. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Sun Nov 16 01:59:27 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: MusicNet CEO: Tech giants will 'dominate' iTMS In-Reply-To: References: <05F0CEDE-1790-11D8-9903-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031116095606.GC10447@Dark-Age.local> On Sat, Nov 15, 2003 at 11:41:26AM -0800, Phil Larson wrote: : : On Nov 15, 2003, at 9:20 AM, Thomas Vincent wrote: : > : >http://www.macminute.com/2003/11/14/musicnet : > : >"The big companies are going to dominate," McGlade said. "AOL is going : >to be a significant player. Companies like Yahoo, MTV, Microsoft, : >Sony. I don't think it's going to be iTunes." : : I thought AOL was partnering with Apple to provide links to the Music : store all over its service? : : http://www.applelinks.com/articles/2003/10/20031016163325.shtml AOL is doing this. That's why McGlade is on crack. Apple is partnering with some big players to make iTMS an even bigger success. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From mark at imap-partners.net Sun Nov 16 03:14:04 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: mail feature request In-Reply-To: References: <8E453112-1790-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> <34BD98EC-17C9-11D8-A8E2-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: On 16 Nov 2003, at 4:20, William Ehrich wrote: >>>>> When reading mail from a pop account, optionally not download >>>>> attachments of type: [ .exe .pdf .tiff .gif .vcf .sig .pgp. >>>>> .p7s etc.]. > >> It won't tell you the kinds of attachments until you download the >> body of the message. > > So download the body first. I would still like to be spared down > loading 40k of beautifully decorated ad for discount Viagra, or the > .exe file that I wouldn't want to run even if I could. And remembering > to run mail-cleaner to clean up my Eudora down-load directory. In Mail, you could make two settings: Mail->Prefs->Viewing->Display images and embedded objects in HTML messages (uncheck) Mail->Prefs->Accounts->Advanced->Keep Copies of messages for offline viewing: select: All messages, but omit attachments This will approach what you are looking for. Its not nirvana, but as others have said, due to how IMAP and POP work, this is as good as it gets without (in the case of IMAP) running scripts and/or filters on the server side. mark. From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Sun Nov 16 03:41:07 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: MusicNet CEO: Tech giants will 'dominate' iTMS In-Reply-To: <05F0CEDE-1790-11D8-9903-003065C4548E@mac.com> References: <05F0CEDE-1790-11D8-9903-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 17:20, Thomas Vincent wrote: > Alan McGlade, CEO of MusicNet, said that the iTunes Music Store may be > an early leader in the music download business, but others will soon > be prominent. "The big companies are going to dominate," McGlade said. > "AOL is going to be a significant player. Companies like Yahoo, MTV, > Microsoft, Sony. I don't think it's going to be iTunes." We'll see what the European Commission has to say. I hope they do something effective. It'll at least make things more interesting. Stefano From fabienlroy at mac.com Sun Nov 16 04:19:02 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <8D33E0C4-1818-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <99FC5C56-17D3-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <8D33E! 0C4-18! 18-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: I really did have a backup. So it was not a big deal. Just annoying to know that if you do not journaling on your iPod, accidently removing the iPod from the dock could destroy your data -and- if you try to do the journaling option you have endless verification loop by the iPod software :-) I may have forgot to say that the journaling iPod was working for weeks until I inadvertently removed it without unmounting... Now I wonder if DiskWarrior would also mess the ipod. Fabien On Nov 16, 2003, at 1:37 AM, Matt wrote: > No, but you'd be an ass if you made a change like that to a disk an > didn't back up first. > > I mean... > > It's called common sense. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sun Nov 16 04:55:04 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Cool Software Update feature In-Reply-To: <7A31CE23-17F3-11D8-BBBB-000502478B8F@micmac.com> References: <7A31CE23-17F3-11D8-BBBB-000502478B8F@micmac.com> Message-ID: What do you mean in the download to desktop??? iChat did it, but that was an iChat function. I was asking for Software Update download resume. I can't remember that. j. El Nov 16, 2003, a las 6:12 AM, Michel Coste escribi?: > The partial download was already in Jaguar but not the mention of it. > At least in the download to desktop (since it's the option I MUST > always use being on POTS?) From johannes at connected.ch Sun Nov 16 05:50:04 2003 From: johannes at connected.ch (Johannes Vetsch) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: OE was Re: MacWorld: Windows apologist slams Panther In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sunday, November 16, 2003, at 10:46 AM, Matt wrote: > > On 16 Nov 2003, at 05:35, Dan Crevier wrote: >>> Still trying to work out how to move a user off OE 4.5 so >>> they can use a mail client that doesn't need classic - both Mail and >>> Eudora crash trying to import it. >> >> How can you blame OE for crashes in other apps when trying to import? >> OE >> provides full scripting support to the mail and it's very >> straightforward to >> get your mail out. > > Go on David, try OE5.02. See if it imports better. It probably won't > crash but then again it refused to import anything either. Have you tried to adjust RAM for OE 5.02 to at least over 64k. MS products are unusable with RAM set to less than 30-40k under OS9. And make sure Virtual Memory is enabled under 9. If you make it to OE5.02 then you go better through the whole Microsoft client history first. - Entourage 9 - Entourage X and from there to Mail.app or anything else. :-( Maybe that helps johannes > > I think Dan's answer here just indicates the company line and not his > personal feelings (because we know Dan is a nice bloke in a difficult > position): > > "We don't give a flying monkeys that your precious data is stuck on > our proprietary file format. We're going to dump the Mac after the > next version anyway. You can kiss my ass if you think we'll fix it > without your credit card number" > > > > M > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 16 07:20:01 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <3C7E2AEC-1848-11D8-B4CE-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 16 Nov 2003, at 02:29, mmalcolm crawford quoted: > But a task-based, iterative UI has nothing to do with bundling > applications, it has to do with helping users accomplish the tasks > they need to do, both frequently and infrequently, regardless of which > apps they want to use. It sounds like it has to do with making any non-msft applications second-class citizens by usurping ever file type into some "task" management. I don't have a problem with the concept in general, but it certainly seems limiting to have to depend on only the OS for everything. -- Rid yourself of doubt -- or should you? -George Carlin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031116/2bd6906b/smime.bin From shawnce at mac.com Sun Nov 16 08:05:01 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X Quartz fun... Message-ID: <83986799-184E-11D8-935C-000A95A6C778@mac.com> For a fun little example of a use of Quartz take a look at xScope. http://www.iconfactory.com/xs_home.asp -Shawn From gerard_iglesias at mac.com Sun Nov 16 12:11:26 2003 From: gerard_iglesias at mac.com (Gerard Iglesias) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <3C7E2AEC-1848-11D8-B4CE-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <3C7E2AEC-1848-11D8-B4CE-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <81E7A28B-1870-11D8-AC6D-000A958F167A@mac.com> Le Nov 16, 2003, ? 4:19 PM, Lukreme a ?crit : > On 16 Nov 2003, at 02:29, mmalcolm crawford quoted: >> But a task-based, iterative UI has nothing to do with bundling >> applications, it has to do with helping users accomplish the tasks >> they need to do, both frequently and infrequently, regardless of >> which apps they want to use. > > It sounds like it has to do with making any non-msft applications > second-class citizens by usurping ever file type into some "task" > management. > > I don't have a problem with the concept in general, but it certainly > seems limiting to have to depend on only the OS for everything. We can say the same with Panther, the iApps + Safari + AppleWorks will suffice for a lot of People, I know a bunch od OSX users that use their mac only for the iApps+Safari+Mail Is Steve Capps still UI guy at M$ ? It will explain why M$ make so much progress in user interface. Don't worry I will not change my G5 + Panther + Xcode + InterfaceBuilder + Cocoa + OpenGL for a Wintel kit ;) But for sure I am waiting from Apple more paradigm shift in Desktop User Interface than we have for now in Panther. Regards Gerard From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 16 13:03:38 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <8D33E0C4-1818-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <99FC5C56-17D3-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <8D33E! 0C4-18! 18-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <6B01D586-1877-11D8-805F-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 16, 2003, at 4:37 AM, Matt wrote: > > On 16 Nov 2003, at 01:24, Fabien Roy wrote: > >> Could you tell me what is the advantage of a journaling file system? >> I was (maybe mistakenly) told that a journaling FS will be immune to >> accidental removal (without un-mounting it first). Removing without >> unmounting the volume is most likely to happen on the iPod. > > That's true. and it sucks that the Pod doesn't support HFS+ > (Journaled) yet but them's the breaks. > All journalling does is make it so you do not need to fsck the filesystem before mounting. A FS journal does not guarantee that the data is safe, it only guarantees that the filesystem will be in a stable state always. And even then a corrupted journal can happen. The old axiom is true, if you value your data make sure it is always backed up. >> Also you don't have to reformat a volume to turn on journaling. > > No, but you'd be an ass if you made a change like that to a disk an > didn't back up first. > > Turning on journalling is actually pretty safe. The way it works is it creates a space on disk to store the metadata. The main thing about journalling is it can cause a performance hit on systems with busy i/o since what happens is you fill the memory cache it uses all the time and force it to constantly write, on a system with already heavy i/o this makes it worse... --Larry From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Sun Nov 16 13:36:05 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <81E7A28B-1870-11D8-AC6D-000A958F167A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <3C7E2AEC-1848-11D8-B4CE-000A95935598@kreme.com> <81E7A28B-1870-11D8-AC6D-000A958F167A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 16, 2003, at 20:07, Gerard Iglesias wrote: > But for sure I am waiting from Apple more paradigm shift in Desktop > User Interface than we have for now in Panther. Paradigm shift towards what? The principle of interacting with a computer by manipulating objects in windows on a screen with a mouse, is pervasive to all desktop software[1][2]. What could any company do with desktop computing that would radically change this, without starting from scratch? Or are we just over-using the word "paradigm" ? Stefano [1] Games and 3D graphics being where exceptions are most likely found. [2] That's a quick attempt at a catch-all definition. From sstevenson at mac.com Sun Nov 16 14:08:40 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <4C237BC5-1881-11D8-A18D-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 16, 2003, at 1:29 AM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > This excerpt from may give more > insight. > > [...] On the Mac, you have to connect applictions with tasks in your > head. As an experienced user, you do this without thinking. But this > can be confusing to many people, especially computer neophytes. For > example, you want to print a photo. How do you do it? Do you manually > find the photo in the shell and double-click it, hoping the app that > launches can print, and that you can find that functionality? Or do > you "think" of an app you want to use, launch that, and then find the > photo from the app?" Personally, I don't have an objection to task-centric UI for situations where it makes sense. My problem is with Microsoft's interpretation of the idea. It's not elegant. The photo example is poor, because iPhoto handles all that by default. There's no issue of trying to find it in the "shell." You select the picture in iPhoto and click the "Print" icon. I really think this is a better arrangement than filling the entire screen with phrases describing about what you can do. That works at kiosks that you use rarely. I'm not sure it works for a computer you use every day. iPhoto is task-based, but it's not nearly as verbose as what we've seen in XP and Longhorn previews. It plays to the strengths of a desktop application rather than highlighting the weaknesses of web-based UI. > "You get wonderful fine-grained control over which pictures you > import, whether they're deleted from the source, where they're put on > your system, and how their named. Now compare this to OS X, where an > app, iPhoto launches. What now? The "import" button is highlighted, > but there's no information at all about what you're doing, and no > step-by-step help to guide you through the process (iPhoto also has > other limits; you can't easily import only certain photos for > example). By default, you must be sophisticated." I think this is where he gets off track. Rather than providing UI for every possible scenario, iPhoto provides UI for what the vast majority of people want to do: download all the photos, optionally deleting them from the source. You don't need a multi-step wizard to do that. It works fine the first few times, but then it becomes tedious because you already know what you can do and where to click. The user *isn't actually reading the text* after the third time through. They're memorizing the location and appearance of the words. At that point, the text is just wasting space. A simple, concise UI serves novices and professionals alike. I don't believe you need to be sophisticated to click a flashing "import" button. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From jared at 23x.net Sun Nov 16 14:39:29 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <3C7E2AEC-1848-11D8-B4CE-000A95935598@kreme.com> <81E7A28B-1870-11D8-AC6D-000A958F167A@mac.com> Message-ID: On 16 Nov 2003, at 22:35, Stefano Mori wrote: > Paradigm shift towards what? Stopping looking at files as files. I now look at my MP3s and AACs as music instead of files stored on a drive. Do I honestly care where they are on my HDD? Ok, I like to know I can find them if I need to, but that's only when I'm working with other computers. The Paradigm[1] we have here on Mac OS X is one of a digital hub that looks after your digital data. It's a step beyond metadata with apps replacing the finder for certain media types. Music files are managed in the music app. Video in the video app, photos in the ... well, you get it. I've not quite got past 'pictures as pictures and not as files' as a web project[2] I'm cow-orking on kinda requires files, but as I'm working on an iPhoto XML parser, it'll soon allow me to lose[4] that virtual crutch. > The principle of interacting with a computer by manipulating objects > in windows on a screen with a mouse, is pervasive to all desktop > software[1][2]. That's not the ... damn, I'm going to say it again[3] ... paradigm we're moving away from. > What could any company do with desktop computing that would radically > change this, without starting from scratch? Haptics, 3D, implants[5], any of the VR buzzwords we had in the 80s. > Or are we just over-using the word "paradigm" ? Always. Have I adequately stated my views or am I saying things I think everyone understands but that's because I think that way and therefore all of you should matron where are my run-on sentence punctuation pills ah there they are I'll take one now. Ah,,, that''s better.... da':;m.n, ,.?:!()\/3rd()se.........,,,,,;: [1] I hate that word when it is misused. [2] http://vignettes.23x.net/ [3] Leveraging. Proactive. Action Item. Bingo!!! [4] Note to slashdot posters: that is the correct spelling. [5] Oi! Jes00s, No! -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "Come on, Romy. You've got to say something nice about my SPORK" From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 16 14:47:03 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <6B01D586-1877-11D8-805F-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <99FC5C56-17D3-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <6B01D! 586-18! 77-11D8-805F-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: On 16 Nov 2003, at 20:56, Lawrence Sica wrote: >> No, but you'd be an ass if you made a change like that to a disk an >> didn't back up first. > Turning on journalling is actually pretty safe. Yeah, sure it is. From gerard_iglesias at mac.com Sun Nov 16 15:04:37 2003 From: gerard_iglesias at mac.com (Gerard Iglesias) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: Le Nov 16, 2003, ? 10:29 AM, mmalcolm crawford a ?crit : > This excerpt from may give more > insight. > > There are a number of other entries which give more background on the > chap himself. See in particular, for example, "About Apple enthusiasm > vs. tech enthusiasm" (Monday, October 13, 2003). The journalist doth > protest too much, methinks... Funny thing, I have a friend who is a US guy living in France, and he made the switch 2 years ago, and he has this kind of though, he like OSX and the mac but hate Apple as a company, especially Steve Jobs :) Well why not, I understabd well this kind of things, but sincerely as a windows user every working day if I was rich enough I would have wintel computer at home, but I don't have enough money for that, hnece my home is filled with mac ;) And the things he said about Panther few days ago are not relevant at all, and biased IMHO, it is like ihe is playing a game like that : Act as a mac fan and what I will say about it will be taken seriously :) Well, I am not sure that he is absolutely honest... Best regards Gerard From gerard_iglesias at mac.com Sun Nov 16 15:12:12 2003 From: gerard_iglesias at mac.com (Gerard Iglesias) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <3C7E2AEC-1848-11D8-B4CE-000A95935598@kreme.com> <81E7A28B-1870-11D8-AC6D-000A958F167A@mac.com> Message-ID: <4A89CB89-1888-11D8-BF06-000A958F167A@mac.com> Le Nov 16, 2003, ? 10:35 PM, Stefano Mori a ?crit : > > On Nov 16, 2003, at 20:07, Gerard Iglesias wrote: > >> But for sure I am waiting from Apple more paradigm shift in Desktop >> User Interface than we have for now in Panther. > > Paradigm shift towards what? The thing that I find every day annoying with OSX is the tim I spend browsing my hard drive to finds my things... Ok, ok I ma not a very good guy to organize things, but what? OSX would help me more on this task. And Can I say that Windows XP is not good at all at this thing, because the things you get is a browser that show you drive as very specific thing as drive, dvd, floppy disk, it is even able to show you a fuc.. icon of a CD with no CD drive at all in the system : http://203.151.217.14/software/vpc_review/images/menu/win_xp_cap2.jpg Regards Gerard From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 16 15:16:09 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <99FC5C56-17D3-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 16, 2003, at 5:39 PM, Matt wrote: > > On 16 Nov 2003, at 20:56, Lawrence Sica wrote: >>> No, but you'd be an ass if you made a change like that to a disk an >>> didn't back up first. >> Turning on journalling is actually pretty safe. > > Yeah, sure it is. > I've done it across multiple oses on hundreds of machines, I have never lost data due to the journalling turning on. Have you had an experience otherwise? --Larry From shawnce at mac.com Sun Nov 16 15:27:58 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: <6B01D586-1877-11D8-805F-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <99FC5C56-17D3-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <6B01D! 586-18! 77-11D8-805F-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: <045FEA3A-188C-11D8-935C-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Nov 16, 2003, at 12:56 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > > On Nov 16, 2003, at 4:37 AM, Matt wrote: > >> >> On 16 Nov 2003, at 01:24, Fabien Roy wrote: >> >>> Could you tell me what is the advantage of a journaling file system? >>> I was (maybe mistakenly) told that a journaling FS will be immune to >>> accidental removal (without un-mounting it first). Removing without >>> unmounting the volume is most likely to happen on the iPod. >> >> That's true. and it sucks that the Pod doesn't support HFS+ >> (Journaled) yet but them's the breaks. >> > > All journalling does is make it so you do not need to fsck the > filesystem before mounting. To be clear... It doesn't prevent the need to run a file system repair after an "event", it makes running it very very fast compared to having to scan the whole file system if you didn't have a journal to guide the way. It also improves the ability of file system recovery because the recovery tool doesn't have to read the tea leaves of an inconsistent file system but simply can read the journal. Now having an atomic (not as in atoms) file system could avoid the need for fsck and journalling but only a few of those exist in the world at this time (historically suffered from performance and capability issues). > And even then a corrupted journal can happen. Sort of... as designed you cannot have both the journal and file system corrupt at the same time (baring bugs, IO pathway, and drive problems). -Shawn From kcall at mac.com Sun Nov 16 15:36:01 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <3C7E2AEC-1848-11D8-B4CE-000A95935598@kreme.com> <81E7A28B-1870-11D8-AC6D-000A958F167A@mac.com> Message-ID: <3EB6FDBB-188C-11D8-BEAC-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> On Nov 16, 2003, at 2:33 PM, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > On 16 Nov 2003, at 22:35, Stefano Mori wrote: >> Paradigm shift towards what? > > Stopping looking at files as files. I now look at my MP3s and AACs as > music instead of files stored on a drive. Do I honestly care where > they are on my HDD? Ok, I like to know I can find them if I need to, > but that's only when I'm working with other computers. That's what I love about LaunchBar ... it will find things for me... i don't have to know where they're located. Kevin > > The Paradigm[1] we have here on Mac OS X is one of a digital hub that > looks after your digital data. It's a step beyond metadata with apps > replacing the finder for certain media types. Music files are managed > in the music app. Video in the video app, photos in the ... well, you > get it. > > I've not quite got past 'pictures as pictures and not as files' as a > web project[2] I'm cow-orking on kinda requires files, but as I'm > working on an iPhoto XML parser, it'll soon allow me to lose[4] that > virtual crutch. > >> The principle of interacting with a computer by manipulating objects >> in windows on a screen with a mouse, is pervasive to all desktop >> software[1][2]. > > That's not the ... damn, I'm going to say it again[3] ... paradigm > we're moving away from. > >> What could any company do with desktop computing that would radically >> change this, without starting from scratch? > > Haptics, 3D, implants[5], any of the VR buzzwords we had in the 80s. > >> Or are we just over-using the word "paradigm" ? > > Always. > > Have I adequately stated my views or am I saying things I think > everyone understands but that's because I think that way and therefore > all of you should matron where are my run-on sentence punctuation > pills ah there they are I'll take one now. Ah,,, that''s better.... > da':;m.n, ,.?:!()\/3rd()se.........,,,,,;: > > [1] I hate that word when it is misused. > [2] http://vignettes.23x.net/ > [3] Leveraging. Proactive. Action Item. Bingo!!! > [4] Note to slashdot posters: that is the correct spelling. > [5] Oi! Jes00s, No! > -- > Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net > "Come on, Romy. You've got to say something nice about my SPORK" > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From lomion at mac.com Sun Nov 16 15:40:29 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <4A89CB89-1888-11D8-BF06-000A958F167A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <3C7E2AEC-1848-11D8-B4CE-000A95935598@kreme.com> <81E7A28B-1870-11D8-AC6D-000A958F167A@mac.com> <4A89CB89-1888-11D8-BF06-000A958F167A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 16, 2003, at 5:57 PM, Gerard Iglesias wrote: > > Le Nov 16, 2003, ? 10:35 PM, Stefano Mori a ?crit : > >> >> On Nov 16, 2003, at 20:07, Gerard Iglesias wrote: >> >>> But for sure I am waiting from Apple more paradigm shift in Desktop >>> User Interface than we have for now in Panther. >> >> Paradigm shift towards what? > > The thing that I find every day annoying with OSX is the tim I spend > browsing my hard drive to finds my things... > > Ok, ok I ma not a very good guy to organize things, but what? OSX > would help me more on this task. > Well it tends to keep things in your home directory. The directory labeled music is for that, pictures for pictures...and the iApps enforce this by default. Sidebar on the New Finder helps there too. > And Can I say that Windows XP is not good at all at this thing, > because the things you get is a browser that show you drive as very > specific thing as drive, dvd, floppy disk, it is even able to show you > a fuc.. icon of a CD with no CD drive at all in the system : > > http://203.151.217.14/software/vpc_review/images/menu/win_xp_cap2.jpg > What is the point of being able to browse a drive with no media? I never understood that little tidbit, that leads to more confusion imho. I prefer how OS X mounts the volume on the desktop and you have an icon of what it is. A CD mounted on my cdesktop is pretty clear that it's the cdrom drive, same when i see it in the finder.. --Larry From surajrai at mac.com Sun Nov 16 18:51:01 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj K. Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Offline folders ... Message-ID: <1069036976.3fb835b045941@raifamily.dyndns.org> Now that iDisk has offline support...how long before someone figures out how to do this for any folder. This should be particularly useful for laptop users with home directories on the network. I hope Apple adds this as part of the core OS soon because it has existed in Windows for quite some time now. Maybe 10.4? S.r. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From rogerhoward at mac.com Sun Nov 16 19:06:03 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Offline folders ... In-Reply-To: <1069036976.3fb835b045941@raifamily.dyndns.org> References: <1069036976.3fb835b045941@raifamily.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Nov 16, 2003, at 6:42 PM, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > Now that iDisk has offline support...how long before someone figures > out how to > do this for any folder. This should be particularly useful for laptop > users > with home directories on the network. I hope Apple adds this as part > of the > core OS soon because it has existed in Windows for quite some time > now. Maybe > 10.4? But isn't this new support just a mounted disk image that is synced to your iDisk via a custom daemon (with a WebDAV client builtin)? I suppose you could do the same, with your own app to handle the syncing.. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like anything system-wide, or really any new technology, just a smarter way to handle iDisk. -R From fabienlroy at mac.com Sun Nov 16 20:23:01 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: alias as seen from a share point??? Message-ID: Plone (Content Management System) maybe the solution for your web publishing problem. see . Plone is open-source and some companies do some consulting work on it (My former company Tyrell Software did the Mac OS X installer and does Plone consulting). Another solution would be to use rsync. The users edit locally and use rsync to propagate their changes. See the manual pages for rsync. Hope that helps. Fabien macosx-admin@omnigroup.comOn Nov 16, 2003, at 5:47 PM, Greg Smith wrote: > I want to give sharing users easy access to various place they are > allowed to change on a web server. I give them an account on the > server, and set their home dir as a share point. I create an alias in > there directory to the place in the web server's documents folder they > can edit. I set permissions as needed. > > When the user mounts (afp or smb) the server they can see the alias > but can not access what is in it. They get "original can not be > found" message. I get the same results if I make a symbolic link, > except the user can ssh and use the symbolic link. Not with FTP > though. > > In the (VERY) original OSX Server you control-dragged to get this very > useful alias. > > Has anyone made this work, or have a good substitute? > > Thanks. > > Greg > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin > From surajrai at mac.com Sun Nov 16 20:38:02 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj K. Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Offline folders ... In-Reply-To: References: <1069036976.3fb835b045941@raifamily.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1069043400.3fb84ec8ab5d0@raifamily.dyndns.org> Quoting Roger Howard : > > On Nov 16, 2003, at 6:42 PM, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > > > Now that iDisk has offline support...how long before someone figures > > out how to > > do this for any folder. This should be particularly useful for laptop > > users > > with home directories on the network. I hope Apple adds this as part > > of the > > core OS soon because it has existed in Windows for quite some time > > now. Maybe > > 10.4? > > But isn't this new support just a mounted disk image that is synced to > your iDisk via a custom daemon (with a WebDAV client builtin)? A disk image? I was not aware of that. s.r. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From rogerhoward at mac.com Sun Nov 16 21:21:55 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Offline folders ... In-Reply-To: <1069043400.3fb84ec8ab5d0@raifamily.dyndns.org> References: <1069036976.3fb835b045941@raifamily.dyndns.org> <1069043400.3fb84ec8ab5d0@raifamily.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <68EDB3D0-18BD-11D8-BF17-0003938C8B26@mac.com> On Nov 16, 2003, at 8:30 PM, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > Quoting Roger Howard : > >> >> On Nov 16, 2003, at 6:42 PM, Suraj K. Rai wrote: >> >>> Now that iDisk has offline support...how long before someone figures >>> out how to >>> do this for any folder. This should be particularly useful for >>> laptop >>> users >>> with home directories on the network. I hope Apple adds this as part >>> of the >>> core OS soon because it has existed in Windows for quite some time >>> now. Maybe >>> 10.4? >> >> But isn't this new support just a mounted disk image that is synced to >> your iDisk via a custom daemon (with a WebDAV client builtin)? > > A disk image? I was not aware of that. Yeah, it's in ~/Library/Mirrors/xxxxxxxxxxxx/username.dmg My understanding is there are two modes... 1) Like in Jaguar, it directly mounts the remote WebDAV share... 2) New to Panther - enable "Create a Local Copy of your iDisk... Automatically" in your .Mac preferences. This actually creates a local .dmg, which is then mounted as "iDisk". A WebDAV client then keeps this in sync with .Mac, without having to actually mount the remote share (much like other WebDAV clients). I had forgotten Panther even worked as in number 1 as an option still... the second option is much more stable, and makes more sense to me (reading/writing local files is much faster, and I never used my iDisk for simultaneously sharing of a file set anyway so I don't need instant sync). -R From joar at joar.com Sun Nov 16 22:49:01 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Offline folders ... In-Reply-To: <1069036976.3fb835b045941@raifamily.dyndns.org> References: <1069036976.3fb835b045941@raifamily.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <051BDC66-18CA-11D8-BC31-000393D4AB70@joar.com> On 2003-11-17, at 03.42, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > Now that iDisk has offline support...how long before someone figures > out how to > do this for any folder. This should be particularly useful for laptop > users > with home directories on the network. I hope Apple adds this as part > of the > core OS soon because it has existed in Windows for quite some time > now. Maybe > 10.4? It's already available if you use Mac OS X Server. From the documentation: "A mobile account is a Mac OS X Server user account that has been copied to a local computer and remains synchronized with the server account so that both locations contain a matching set of data. The user may log in on the portable computer using the name and password for a network account, even if the computer isn?t connected to the network. The home directory for the mobile account resides on the user?s computer, whereas the home directory for the network account resides on the server. When the computer is connected to the network, the user authenticates directly to the server account, bypassing the mobile account but still using a local home directory. The mobile account is then updated automatically, along with any associated managed preference settings. When the computer is disconnected from the network, any managed preference settings applied remain in force." j o a r From rogerhoward at mac.com Sun Nov 16 23:51:06 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Offline folders ... In-Reply-To: <051BDC66-18CA-11D8-BC31-000393D4AB70@joar.com> References: <1069036976.3fb835b045941@raifamily.dyndns.org> <051BDC66-18CA-11D8-BC31-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: On Nov 16, 2003, at 10:48 PM, j o a r wrote: > > On 2003-11-17, at 03.42, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > >> Now that iDisk has offline support...how long before someone figures >> out how to >> do this for any folder. This should be particularly useful for >> laptop users >> with home directories on the network. I hope Apple adds this as part >> of the >> core OS soon because it has existed in Windows for quite some time >> now. Maybe >> 10.4? > > It's already available if you use Mac OS X Server. From the > documentation: > > "A mobile account is a Mac OS X Server user account that has been > copied to a local computer and remains synchronized with the server > account so that both locations contain a matching set of data. The > user may log in on the portable computer using the name and password > for a network account, even if the computer isn?t connected to the > network. The home directory for the mobile account resides on the > user?s computer, whereas the home directory for the network account > resides on the server. > > When the computer is connected to the network, the user authenticates > directly to the server account, bypassing the mobile account but > still using a local home directory. The mobile account is then > updated automatically, along with any associated managed preference > settings. When the computer is disconnected from the network, any > managed preference settings applied remain in force." Awesome. Is this new in Panther Server? -R From surajrai at mac.com Mon Nov 17 00:02:42 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj K. Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Offline folders ... In-Reply-To: <051BDC66-18CA-11D8-BC31-000393D4AB70@joar.com> References: <1069036976.3fb835b045941@raifamily.dyndns.org> <051BDC66-18CA-11D8-BC31-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: <1069055510.3fb87e16e42c6@raifamily.dyndns.org> Quoting j o a r : > > On 2003-11-17, at 03.42, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > > > Now that iDisk has offline support...how long before someone figures > > out how to > > do this for any folder. This should be particularly useful for laptop > > users > > with home directories on the network. I hope Apple adds this as part > > of the > > core OS soon because it has existed in Windows for quite some time > > now. Maybe > > 10.4? > > It's already available if you use Mac OS X Server. From the > documentation: > > "A mobile account is a Mac OS X Server user account that has been > copied to a local computer and remains synchronized with the server > account so that both locations contain a matching set of data. The > user may log in on the portable computer using the name and password > for a network account, even if the computer isn?t connected to the > network. The home directory for the mobile account resides on the > user?s computer, whereas the home directory for the network account > resides on the server. > > When the computer is connected to the network, the user authenticates > directly to the server account, bypassing the mobile account but still > using a local home directory. The mobile account is then updated > automatically, along with any associated managed preference settings. > When the computer is disconnected from the network, any managed > preference settings applied remain in force." > Wow! Another nice surprise. This looks like it may be related to the Home on the iPod feature that was not included in the final client release. Thanks, S.r. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From joar at joar.com Mon Nov 17 00:14:21 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Offline folders ... In-Reply-To: <1069055510.3fb87e16e42c6@raifamily.dyndns.org> References: <1069036976.3fb835b045941@raifamily.dyndns.org> <051BDC66-18CA-11D8-BC31-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <1069055510.3fb87e16e42c6@raifamily.dyndns.org> Message-ID: I don't really see why the two should be related - at least not related in their implementation, even though they might be conceptually. j o a r On 2003-11-17, at 08.51, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > Wow! Another nice surprise. This looks like it may be related to the > Home on > the iPod feature that was not included in the final client release. From surajrai at mac.com Mon Nov 17 00:58:01 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj K. Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Offline folders ... In-Reply-To: References: <1069036976.3fb835b045941@raifamily.dyndns.org> <051BDC66-18CA-11D8-BC31-000393D4AB70@joar.com> <1069055510.3fb87e16e42c6@raifamily.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1069059024.3fb88bd0770ae@raifamily.dyndns.org> Quoting j o a r : > I don't really see why the two should be related - at least not related > in their implementation, even though they might be conceptually. > > j o a r > > On 2003-11-17, at 08.51, Suraj K. Rai wrote: > > > Wow! Another nice surprise. This looks like it may be related to the > > Home on > > the iPod feature that was not included in the final client release. btw..this feature does not seem to work right now. The data syncing is apparently only for netinfo data and not the contents of the home directory itself. For those interested..read the following thread: http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?128@253.H8DdabAEj0p.10@.599b4bfb S.r. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 17 01:56:02 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <3C7E2AEC-1848-11D8-B4CE-000A95935598@kreme.com> <81E7A28B-1870-11D8-AC6D-000A958F167A@mac.com> Message-ID: <1E7FA470-18E4-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 16 Nov 2003, at 22:33, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > On 16 Nov 2003, at 22:35, Stefano Mori wrote: >> Paradigm shift towards what? > > Stopping looking at files as files. I now look at my MP3s and AACs as > music instead of files stored on a drive. Do I honestly care where > they are on my HDD? Ok, I like to know I can find them if I need to, > but that's only when I'm working with other computers. So, how do you please everyone? That's the knub of the question. We interact with "music" and "photos" on our Macs through database driven applications. We also can drill down as console jockeys and find the files concerned. I've not used WinFS but ... how low level is it? From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 17 02:00:06 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Mac OS X 10.3.1 is released via SU (U) In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <99FC5C56-17D3-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <61108D6A-18E4-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 16 Nov 2003, at 23:01, Lawrence Sica wrote: > On Nov 16, 2003, at 5:39 PM, Matt wrote: >> On 16 Nov 2003, at 20:56, Lawrence Sica wrote: >>>> No, but you'd be an ass if you made a change like that to a disk an >>>> didn't back up first. >>> Turning on journalling is actually pretty safe. >> Yeah, sure it is. > > I've done it across multiple oses on hundreds of machines, I have > never lost data due to the journalling turning on. Have you had an > experience otherwise? I find performing a change like that without a restorable backup to be irresponsible. But then I work with other people's data too. M From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 17 02:28:15 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) Message-ID: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> You know, something was very familiar about the Longhorn interface. I couldn't quite put my finger on it until I remembered the old "Advanced Look and Feel" documents that Apple used to have. I scoured the net and found a couple of programs. http://www.nimug.org/img/ Anyway, you make up your own mind. -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From kremels at kreme.com Mon Nov 17 02:32:02 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <81E7A28B-1870-11D8-AC6D-000A958F167A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <3C7E2AEC-1848-11D8-B4CE-000A95935598@kreme.com> <81E7A28B-1870-11D8-AC6D-000A958F167A@mac.com> Message-ID: <3CB52E5A-18E9-11D8-8E88-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 16 Nov 2003, at 13:07, Gerard Iglesias wrote: > Le Nov 16, 2003, ? 4:19 PM, Lukreme a ?crit : >> On 16 Nov 2003, at 02:29, mmalcolm crawford quoted: >>> But a task-based, iterative UI has nothing to do with bundling >>> applications, it has to do with helping users accomplish the tasks >>> they need to do, both frequently and infrequently, regardless of >>> which apps they want to use. >> >> It sounds like it has to do with making any non-msft applications >> second-class citizens by usurping ever file type into some "task" >> management. >> >> I don't have a problem with the concept in general, but it certainly >> seems limiting to have to depend on only the OS for everything. > > We can say the same with Panther, Not really. > the iApps + Safari + AppleWorks will suffice for a lot of People, I > know a bunch od OSX users that use their mac only for the > iApps+Safari+Mail There is a huge difference between having an included app that will manage your pictures (iPhoto) and having the OS itself say "Hey, this folder has photos in it, do you want to print/crop/clean/resize these pictures?" the first is just another application. t he second is an attempt to supplant any application at all. > It will explain why M$ make so much progress in user interface. I think the UI for windows is still very very poor, and longhorn looks even worse. That screenshot of the photo management had about 80% wasted space. -- Lobotomy means never having to say you're sorry -- or anything else. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031117/54b684e8/smime.bin From fabienlroy at mac.com Mon Nov 17 02:55:01 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <57012886-18EC-11D8-9982-000393658196@mac.com> And also take a look at NeXTSTEP circa 1989 (with the dock on the right side)! Mat if you can find and old screen shot of NeXTSTEP and compare... Fabien On Nov 17, 2003, at 2:20 AM, Matt wrote: > > You know, something was very familiar about the Longhorn interface. I > couldn't quite put my finger on it until I remembered the old > "Advanced Look and Feel" documents that Apple used to have. I scoured > the net and found a couple of programs. > > http://www.nimug.org/img/ > > Anyway, you make up your own mind. > > > -- > Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 17 03:03:02 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: <57012886-18EC-11D8-9982-000393658196@mac.com> References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <57012886-18EC-11D8-9982-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <768692AE-18ED-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 17 Nov 2003, at 10:53, Fabien Roy wrote: > And also take a look at NeXTSTEP circa 1989 (with the dock on the > right side)! > Mat if you can find and old screen shot of NeXTSTEP and compare... I did, but the Dock, as opposed to a "tray" didn't capture the similarity for me. M From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Mon Nov 17 03:16:58 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: Funny thing is, the advanced look and feel from 1996 looks like crap now and... so does Longhorn. Some things never change. j. El 17/11/2003, a las 11:20, Matt escribi?: > > You know, something was very familiar about the Longhorn interface. I > couldn't quite put my finger on it until I remembered the old > "Advanced Look and Feel" documents that Apple used to have. I scoured > the net and found a couple of programs. > > http://www.nimug.org/img/ > > Anyway, you make up your own mind. > > > -- > Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From stefano.mori at zen.co.uk Mon Nov 17 03:58:14 2003 From: stefano.mori at zen.co.uk (Stefano Mori) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:28 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <3CB52E5A-18E9-11D8-8E88-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <3C7E2AEC-1848-11D8-B4CE-000A95935598@kreme.com> <81E7A28B-1870-11D8-AC6D-000A958F167A@mac.com> <3CB52E5A-18E9-11D8-8E88-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <420BCB9C-18F5-11D8-A327-000393AEE278@zen.co.uk> On Nov 17, 2003, at 10:31, Lukreme wrote: > There is a huge difference between having an included app that will > manage your pictures (iPhoto) and having the OS itself say "Hey, this > folder has photos in it, do you want to print/crop/clean/resize these > pictures?" the first is just another application. t he second is an > attempt to supplant any application at all. That example is typical of the sort of wrong-headed design that MS "innovates". Good design is about having a hundred ideas and knowing which 99 to throw in the trash. Bad designers hang on to 20 and try to implement them. I find it quite surprising, really. Coders, as I understand them, know about principles of coding goodness, such as making it clean, extensible, rationally architected. So why does MS create these interface abominations? Why all the discrepancies in the way features work? Why the stupid ideas like sticking application level features in the... I was about to say file browser but wait, it's an internet browser... oh, I'm confused. Software is hierarchies of wholes. It used to be that every word processor came with it's own printer drivers, yes? Then we separated the common need into a whole of it's own, and created printing architectures. So we have these different subsystems, and the applications are what sit on top. Trying to take major functions from applications and merging them into a lower subsystem is wrong. The filesystem is at a lower level. It's not the place to crop photos. As Lukreme says, there's a big difference between making the application manage storage for the user, and the storage system itself trying to become an application... or worse, several applications at once. Apple's preview pane is already starting to stretch things a bit... but at least the media architecture is a subsystem in it's own right, so why not call it from anywhere? However, cropping an image in the Finder would be... yeuch. But we could argue what about storing files as a database with rich searching abilities? That's fine, although as we know, it's hard. Anyway, it's still basically a way to manage files. But the contents of those files is still the territory of applications. Meanwhile some data formats can become the domain of subsystems, like QuickTime, WebKit, ACIS, etc. There was a plugin from LightWorks that would raytrace a QuickDraw 3D model file and could be called from different apps. It was cool. And if we had a standard open, and widely adopted format for word processors then maybe we could have a subsystem for text documents. But subsystems are not applications, although chunks of applications can mature to become subsystems as software evolves. Whatever a subsystem does, you'll still need a user interface to it. It's just beautiful that OmniWeb and Safari can call WebKit. So where do "task based interfaces" fit in? Well, lets say that what we mean by that phrase is that we want to be able to integrate together a work flow that would require launching several applications (*cough*AppleScript*cough*). The wrong way to do this is to build into a lower level a motley collection of functions from higher level apps. Thanks MS for showing us not to go there. The right way is to build a new application that integrates several subsystems to perform the task. Just like applications do already. Just like iPhoto does for shoot, archive, collect into album and print. Sorry, this post is a bit tedious and long. Stefano From mic at micmac.com Mon Nov 17 04:06:21 2003 From: mic at micmac.com (Michel Coste) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Cool Software Update feature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <238068DE-18F5-11D8-AEB1-000502478B8F@micmac.com> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031117/7c7d3c13/PGP.bin From surajrai at mac.com Mon Nov 17 05:02:04 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Net Flix Fanatic and Cricket Message-ID: <3042D4C4-18FE-11D8-A4A4-000A95A50218@mac.com> What is this all about? http://www.thinksecret.com/news/netflixfanatic.html Cricket? S.r. From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 17 05:17:05 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Net Flix Fanatic and Cricket In-Reply-To: <3042D4C4-18FE-11D8-A4A4-000A95A50218@mac.com> References: <3042D4C4-18FE-11D8-A4A4-000A95A50218@mac.com> Message-ID: <43379B27-1900-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 17 Nov 2003, at 13:01, Suraj Rai wrote: > What is this all about? > > http://www.thinksecret.com/news/netflixfanatic.html While it may be a shame and feasibly possible, the cost of winning may outweigh the benefits of just stopping development. Welcome to the world of a tech industry that is, in some areas, still bottoming out. M -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From mark at imap-partners.net Mon Nov 17 05:39:02 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Net Flix Fanatic and Cricket In-Reply-To: <3042D4C4-18FE-11D8-A4A4-000A95A50218@mac.com> References: <3042D4C4-18FE-11D8-A4A4-000A95A50218@mac.com> Message-ID: <628BF83D-1903-11D8-B6E3-000A958A3014@imap-partners.net> On 17 Nov 2003, at 14:01, Suraj Rai wrote: > What is this all about? > > http://www.thinksecret.com/news/netflixfanatic.html > > Cricket? If I am not very much mistaken, all of the "source" material for this article by Herr De Plume was already posted a while ago to this list in a message which did not appear to be from "our cricket". we want answers or info or something mark. From chad at objectwerks.com Mon Nov 17 06:11:08 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: any applescripts/javascripts for driving Safari to test web load? Message-ID: <7443D2E7-1907-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> A quick look at the AppleScript dictionary of Safari shows that it can drive a javascript over a given page. This looks like you could use it as a poorman's webpage testing / load testing app. I basically want to send a "click on a link" to a given page once a second for say 24 hours. Does anyone have any sort of code that could be used to do this? I have not programmed javascript before and only a little applescript so I would like to see if anyone has something that could be used for this. Thanks Chad From erewhon at radix.net Mon Nov 17 06:46:02 2003 From: erewhon at radix.net (Tulse X. Luper) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: no more Mysts? [commentary] Message-ID: <200311171445.hAHEjWtQ016996@saltmine.radix.net> From scanning the site for the latest episode of Myst (due out in December), I see that Cyan et al have no plans to release a non-Gatesian version. (They say they'll consider it after the initial release, but I have learned from other gaming companies that this is lip service for "forget it"...) This is rather sad, since the origins of the game were based on a Hypercard prototype, and although it is as much a time-waster as any of the numerous "action" games, it sort of always harmonized with the philosophy of Apples being more devoted to advanced graphics, and both promoting a more "humane" interface with its laid-back, discover-what-you-will approach... erewhon@radix.net ------------------------------------------------------------ Stop me before I post again! ---------------------------- Tulse Luper: 92 pernambucating pygmy-owls in VUE. From chad at objectwerks.com Mon Nov 17 06:50:03 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 17, 2003, at 3:20 AM, Matt wrote: > > You know, something was very familiar about the Longhorn interface. I > couldn't quite put my finger on it until I remembered the old > "Advanced Look and Feel" documents that Apple used to have. I scoured > the net and found a couple of programs. > > http://www.nimug.org/img/ Can you make a click on the images go to a large version so I can see it? Thanks Chad > > Anyway, you make up your own mind. From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Mon Nov 17 06:59:28 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5FB635D0-190E-11D8-B646-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 15, 2003, at 4:47 AM, Stefano Mori wrote: > IT manager: "Gee.. there must be one type of computer that's better > at _this job_ than the others... and what I don't wanna do is > 'standardize'... that's sooo last century IT dinosaur stupid... _real_ > corporations are an integration of varied systems, each perfected for > it's own job and contributing to the integrity of the whole > ecosystem..." > Heh, send that blurb to a publisher and you might get a book contract :). -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 632 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031117/01ea6346/attachment.bin From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 17 07:08:38 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <8C8AC2CE-190E-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 17 Nov 2003, at 14:46, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > On Nov 17, 2003, at 3:20 AM, Matt wrote: > >> >> You know, something was very familiar about the Longhorn interface. I >> couldn't quite put my finger on it until I remembered the old >> "Advanced Look and Feel" documents that Apple used to have. I scoured >> the net and found a couple of programs. >> >> http://www.nimug.org/img/ > > Can you make a click on the images go to a large version so I can see > it? Can you right-click and save as. The images are the largest I have. They're just resized in the IMG tag so they fit in a browser window. M From dinse at niehs.nih.gov Mon Nov 17 07:23:03 2003 From: dinse at niehs.nih.gov (Gregg Dinse) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: an unappealing Finder change -- UPDATE In-Reply-To: References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <3215C555-15F9-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: Hello again, Just in case anyone is interested... Earlier I wrote about how a single click in the Finder window, when Finder was not the active app, would take me to the directory associated with the column in which I clicked. I played around with this a little more, and whether or not the single click changes the directory depends on where one clicks, moreso than I had expected. If I click in the white area below the list files/folders in a column, then that single click takes me to the directory associated with that column (and I lose the rest of the path to my previous location). Similarly, if I single click on a *USER-DEFINED* folder in the side bar, the Finder goes to that folder. On the other hand, as expected, if I click on the title bar or the bottom bar, the Finder is activated without switching directories. I also get this behavior, though, in some other situations. It surprised me that if I click on a file/folder in a column (rather than in the white space below), the Finder is activated without switching directories. Similarly, if I click on a folder in the side bar which was not defined and dragged there by me (e.g. my home directory or the Applications directory), then the Finder is activated without switching directories. In fact, if I click on the white space at the bottom of the side bar, the Finder is activated without switching directories (say to the root directory). So, what happens when clicking in the white space at the bottom of a column depends which column it is. I have not yet figured out whether I like or dislike all of this, but it did surprise me. Personally, I would prefer that a single click anywhere in the Finder would only activate the Finder, but not perform any action (well, maybe changing directories is the only action allowable -- hopefully delete is not allowed). There are probably situations where the new way of doing things is preferable, but it strikes me odd that the result is so dependent on exactly where one clicks. This inconsistency bothers me... Gregg On Nov 13, 2003, at 1:24 PM, Gregg Dinse wrote: > Hi, > > I use column view and often I work with files that are many levels > deep. In previous OSX versions, when I had an application window open > and wanted to go back to my current working directory in the Finder, I > would simply click on any visible part of the Finder window and that > would bring the Finder to the front, but no other Finder actions were > performed. In panther (10.3.1), a single click takes me to the > directory corresponding to the column in which I clicked, which might > be several levels back from where I want to be. Not only that, but > the rest of the path is no longer visible, so if I want to get back to > where I was, I have to click on several folders (and remember which > ones I had clicked on previously). > > Is this a feature or a bug? Are others seeing this? I assume that > there is a reason for this change, and that it is desirable behavior > in some situations. It sure does not help my work flow, though. > > If I click on the Finder icon in the dock or on the Finder's title bar > (or bottom bar), I get what I want, but I'm used to clicking anywhere > in the Finder window. Is there a way to get the old behavior back? I > thought that usually a single click was used to get the focus of a > different application, and that a second click was necessary to > actually perform an operation. Has this philosophy changed? > > Thanks in advance for any help, > > Gregg > > ================================= > Gregg Dinse From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Mon Nov 17 07:49:24 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48833B7B-1915-11D8-B646-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 15, 2003, at 5:43 AM, Dan.Gaters wrote: > Why would "chose the right tool for the job" become fashionable in four > years? Because tech magazine writers and book publishers will need something new to talk about. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 380 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031117/4327a4a4/attachment.bin From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Mon Nov 17 07:51:11 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <2DDD14C8-1915-11D8-B646-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 15, 2003, at 12:35 AM, David Cake wrote: > for example, if iPhoto automatically discovered all photos on the > drive, some aspects could be accessed direct from Finder preview, the > Photos finder favourite was a search of all photos not just a > presupplied folder, etc This is an awful idea. Apple got it right. You don't go to the "Finder" to work with your pictures. You go to iPhoto. iTunes for music, etc. etc. I hope MS uses this approach of "work with your pictures in Windows Explorer". Windows Explorer is a million different things, and if you add photo editing, it will be a million + 1. That's not the formula for a great experience working with photos. > Perhaps the real difference is that the task-based interface might be > the best for people who never really feel comfortable with their > computers and never push them in unanticipated directions, and the Mac > will remain the platform for those who want to do unusual things? I think you still give MS too much credit. I don't think there's ANY users for whom the task based interface will be superior. It's the Clippy-ization of the entire user interface. It's noble that you try to give this approach the benefit of the doubt, but in this case I think the benefit is unearned. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1444 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031117/d38a45bc/attachment.bin From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Mon Nov 17 07:52:20 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 7:46 AM, Stefano Mori wrote: > Factor number three is Linux. No more needs to be said other than > noting that Linux is showing no signs of slowing in it's expansion. Underlying factor number three, I'll add factor number 4. The U.S. is spectacularly unpopular around the world right now, and I believe MS symbolizes many of the traits people associate with the U.S. So another reason to resist MS will be a desire to stick it to the man. That's what we're seeing in a lot of these government decisions to favor open source. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 708 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031117/a8c26fe4/attachment.bin From dave at difference.com.au Mon Nov 17 08:19:07 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: <2DDD14C8-1915-11D8-B646-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <2DDD14C8-1915-11D8-B646-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: At 10:46 AM -0500 17/11/03, Jim Rankin wrote: >On Nov 15, 2003, at 12:35 AM, David Cake wrote: > >> for example, if iPhoto automatically discovered all photos on the >>drive, some aspects could be accessed direct from Finder preview, >>the Photos finder favourite was a search of all photos not just a >>presupplied folder, etc > >This is an awful idea. Apple got it right. You don't go to the >"Finder" to work with your pictures. You go to iPhoto. iTunes for >music, etc. etc. I think you probably overestimate what I meant by 'some aspects' - I wasn't suggesting going the microsoft direction of replacing specialised apps, only making the finder a little smarter about what is directly possible without starting another app. But I do think that Microsoft is on to a good thing by trying to work away from the working with files only within the file system hierarchy - functions like finding all music, all photos etc besides simple file system views are definitely on the right track. Of course, Microsoft can't do a good job of this either - WinFS works very poorly at the moment. And I don't think supplying some extra options from within the finder based on file type is a bad thing, though I think its easy to go too far in this direction as well. I really think WinFS is an interesting technological base for a particular set of features that people have been talking about in Mac circles for a long time as well (and which I suspect Apple is slowly working towards in their own way), which is to have 'smart folders' that represent not a directory within the file system, but an actively updated search result. Such as all files of a certain type, or all files created in the last week, or all files belonging to me, or music files in my home directory, and so on. You can see the basic UI patterns of this all through current Apple products (ie smart folders are to folders as smart playlists are to playlists). Cheers David From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Mon Nov 17 08:24:39 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: El 17/11/2003, a las 16:50, Jim Rankin escribi?: > Underlying factor number three, I'll add factor number 4. The U.S. is > spectacularly unpopular around the world right now, and I believe MS > symbolizes many of the traits people associate with the U.S. So > another reason to resist MS will be a desire to stick it to the man. > That's what we're seeing in a lot of these government decisions to > favor open source. You know, if people is stupid enough as to choose a tool or ANYTHING because it comes from country A, B or C, then... then... well, then that people are stupid. Or something. j. From chad at objectwerks.com Mon Nov 17 09:15:30 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: <8C8AC2CE-190E-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <8C8AC2CE-190E-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <1129CE5B-1921-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 17, 2003, at 7:58 AM, Matt wrote: > > On 17 Nov 2003, at 14:46, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > >> >> On Nov 17, 2003, at 3:20 AM, Matt wrote: >> >>> >>> You know, something was very familiar about the Longhorn interface. >>> I couldn't quite put my finger on it until I remembered the old >>> "Advanced Look and Feel" documents that Apple used to have. I >>> scoured the net and found a couple of programs. >>> >>> http://www.nimug.org/img/ >> >> Can you make a click on the images go to a large version so I can see >> it? > > Can you right-click and save as. The images are the largest I have. > They're just resized in the IMG tag so they fit in a browser window. > > I could and will. But you could also make them links to individual pages that don't constrain the size. Chad From cjacobs at mac.com Mon Nov 17 10:19:02 2003 From: cjacobs at mac.com (Charles Jacobs) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: an unappealing Finder change -- UPDATE In-Reply-To: References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <3215C555-15F9-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <6F89CBBD-192A-11D8-8172-000393C6D052@mac.com> Interesting. For me, whether or not the finder changes directory when you click on a location in the sidebar (and the finder isn't frontmost) depends on what view the finder window is using. Icon view: the finder always changes directories List view: the finder never changes directories Column view: the finder changes directories sometimes. I had thought it followed this pattern: -- if a directory is the currently selected item, the finder never changes directories -- if a file is selected, the finder changes directories if you've clicked on a user-added shortcut in the sidebar However, I now think that in column view it's just random, and it just followed the above pattern long enough for me to overgeneralize. --chuck On Nov 17, 2003, at 7:20 AM, Gregg Dinse wrote: > Hello again, > > Just in case anyone is interested... > > Earlier I wrote about how a single click in the Finder window, when > Finder was not the active app, would take me to the directory > associated with the column in which I clicked. I played around with > this a little more, and whether or not the single click changes the > directory depends on where one clicks, moreso than I had expected. > > If I click in the white area below the list files/folders in a column, > then that single click takes me to the directory associated with that > column (and I lose the rest of the path to my previous location). > Similarly, if I single click on a *USER-DEFINED* folder in the side > bar, the Finder goes to that folder. > > On the other hand, as expected, if I click on the title bar or the > bottom bar, the Finder is activated without switching directories. I > also get this behavior, though, in some other situations. It > surprised me that if I click on a file/folder in a column (rather than > in the white space below), the Finder is activated without switching > directories. Similarly, if I click on a folder in the side bar which > was not defined and dragged there by me (e.g. my home directory or the > Applications directory), then the Finder is activated without > switching directories. In fact, if I click on the white space at the > bottom of the side bar, the Finder is activated without switching > directories (say to the root directory). So, what happens when > clicking in the white space at the bottom of a column depends which > column it is. > > I have not yet figured out whether I like or dislike all of this, but > it did surprise me. Personally, I would prefer that a single click > anywhere in the Finder would only activate the Finder, but not perform > any action (well, maybe changing directories is the only action > allowable -- hopefully delete is not allowed). There are probably > situations where the new way of doing things is preferable, but it > strikes me odd that the result is so dependent on exactly where one > clicks. This inconsistency bothers me... > > Gregg > > On Nov 13, 2003, at 1:24 PM, Gregg Dinse wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I use column view and often I work with files that are many levels >> deep. In previous OSX versions, when I had an application window >> open and wanted to go back to my current working directory in the >> Finder, I would simply click on any visible part of the Finder window >> and that would bring the Finder to the front, but no other Finder >> actions were performed. In panther (10.3.1), a single click takes me >> to the directory corresponding to the column in which I clicked, >> which might be several levels back from where I want to be. Not only >> that, but the rest of the path is no longer visible, so if I want to >> get back to where I was, I have to click on several folders (and >> remember which ones I had clicked on previously). >> >> Is this a feature or a bug? Are others seeing this? I assume that >> there is a reason for this change, and that it is desirable behavior >> in some situations. It sure does not help my work flow, though. >> >> If I click on the Finder icon in the dock or on the Finder's title >> bar (or bottom bar), I get what I want, but I'm used to clicking >> anywhere in the Finder window. Is there a way to get the old >> behavior back? I thought that usually a single click was used to get >> the focus of a different application, and that a second click was >> necessary to actually perform an operation. Has this philosophy >> changed? >> >> Thanks in advance for any help, >> >> Gregg >> >> ================================= >> Gregg Dinse > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Nov 17 10:28:06 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: an unappealing Finder change -- UPDATE In-Reply-To: References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <3215C555-15F9-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031117, 10:20 -0500, they whom i call Gregg Dinse wrote: >If I click in the white area below the list files/folders in a >column, then that single click takes me to the directory associated >with that column (and I lose the rest of the path to my previous >location). note that Path Finder, in addition to making live background click an option, will "remember" the deepest path in the "path navigator" bar, even if you select a folder farther up in the same hierarchy (such as by clicking in the "white area").. Path Finder also includes a clickable border whether or not you chose the metal appearance when my Path Finder trial elapsed, i found that scrollable previews and sorting in column view were so useful that i bought a license.. FInder often reaches the bottom of my app activation order -- steve harley From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Mon Nov 17 10:39:11 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2FD8801E-192C-11D8-8C45-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 17, 2003, at 11:18 AM, Jes?s D?az wrote: > You know, if people is stupid enough as to choose a tool or ANYTHING > because it comes from country A, B or C, then... then... well, then > that people are stupid. > Never underestimate the power of stupidity when it comes to politics. -jimbo Excelsior! 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Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 442 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031117/1857a14f/attachment.bin From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Mon Nov 17 10:48:23 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <2DDD14C8-1915-11D8-B646-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 17, 2003, at 11:15 AM, David Cake wrote: > But I do think that Microsoft is on to a good thing by trying to work > away from the working with files only within the file system hierarchy > - functions like finding all music, all photos etc besides simple file > system views are definitely on the right track. I think, in general, Apple should continue pushing in the other direction. The Finder is still necessary, but the less time we need to spend in it on a daily basis, the more the interface will improve, I think. The way you find, organize and edit things differs radically depending on the kind of data you're talking about. With music, you want to search quickly by artist, genre, album, most listened to, etc. You want to be able to search songs in a store no differently than ones you already own. For Photos you want to be able to enlarge and shrink a set of photos to either browse through them quickly or look at one or a few in more detail. For mail, you want to be able to quickly see related messages in a thread. Etc. etc. The Finder is still necessary, but as time goes on it should become less necessary as ways of organizing, searching, viewing and editing the kinds of data people commonly use becomes more refined. The file system should become an obscure technical detail that end users don't need to know anything about to use their computer on a daily basis. So I understand what you're saying, but still think Apple shouldn't devote too many resources to making the Finder do new things. Microsoft can wander down this path if they wish, but I don't want to be dragged along with them. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1790 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031117/be0bb62e/attachment.bin From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Nov 17 11:17:05 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters Message-ID: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> So who's going to MacWorld SF, and would you be interested in some kind of gathering - beer, coffee, dinner, whatever? I'll be there with my geektress, no idea where we're staying yet (likely across the way at the Marriot like last year). We could all go for a big feast in Chinatown, or just set-up an ad hoc Airport network and IM each other if the eye contact thing bothers any of you. -R From dinse at niehs.nih.gov Mon Nov 17 11:37:13 2003 From: dinse at niehs.nih.gov (Gregg Dinse) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: an unappealing Finder change -- UPDATE In-Reply-To: <6F89CBBD-192A-11D8-8172-000393C6D052@mac.com> References: <1AB624B0-1577-11D8-9E33-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <3215C555-15F9-11D8-A45A-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <6F89CBBD-192A-11D8-8172-000393C6D052@mac.com> Message-ID: <4DB5B89C-1935-11D8-BCAF-000A95AFA24A@niehs.nih.gov> I think I overgeneralized also. I swear I tried various scenarios many times and was able to replicate what I reported. But a friend down the hall experienced a different behavior, and now I can't get the same behavior as before. It does seem almost random at this point... Gregg On Nov 17, 2003, at 1:18 PM, Charles Jacobs wrote: > Interesting. For me, whether or not the finder changes directory when > you click on a location in the sidebar (and the finder isn't > frontmost) depends on what view the finder window is using. > > Icon view: the finder always changes directories > List view: the finder never changes directories > Column view: the finder changes directories sometimes. I had thought > it followed this pattern: > -- if a directory is the currently selected item, the finder never > changes directories > -- if a file is selected, the finder changes directories if you've > clicked on a user-added shortcut in the sidebar > > However, I now think that in column view it's just random, and it just > followed the above pattern long enough for me to overgeneralize. > > --chuck > > On Nov 17, 2003, at 7:20 AM, Gregg Dinse wrote: > >> Hello again, >> >> Just in case anyone is interested... >> >> Earlier I wrote about how a single click in the Finder window, when >> Finder was not the active app, would take me to the directory >> associated with the column in which I clicked. I played around with >> this a little more, and whether or not the single click changes the >> directory depends on where one clicks, moreso than I had expected. >> >> If I click in the white area below the list files/folders in a >> column, then that single click takes me to the directory associated >> with that column (and I lose the rest of the path to my previous >> location). Similarly, if I single click on a *USER-DEFINED* folder >> in the side bar, the Finder goes to that folder. >> >> On the other hand, as expected, if I click on the title bar or the >> bottom bar, the Finder is activated without switching directories. I >> also get this behavior, though, in some other situations. It >> surprised me that if I click on a file/folder in a column (rather >> than in the white space below), the Finder is activated without >> switching directories. Similarly, if I click on a folder in the side >> bar which was not defined and dragged there by me (e.g. my home >> directory or the Applications directory), then the Finder is >> activated without switching directories. In fact, if I click on the >> white space at the bottom of the side bar, the Finder is activated >> without switching directories (say to the root directory). So, what >> happens when clicking in the white space at the bottom of a column >> depends which column it is. >> >> I have not yet figured out whether I like or dislike all of this, but >> it did surprise me. Personally, I would prefer that a single click >> anywhere in the Finder would only activate the Finder, but not >> perform any action (well, maybe changing directories is the only >> action allowable -- hopefully delete is not allowed). There are >> probably situations where the new way of doing things is preferable, >> but it strikes me odd that the result is so dependent on exactly >> where one clicks. This inconsistency bothers me... >> >> Gregg >> >> On Nov 13, 2003, at 1:24 PM, Gregg Dinse wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I use column view and often I work with files that are many levels >>> deep. In previous OSX versions, when I had an application window >>> open and wanted to go back to my current working directory in the >>> Finder, I would simply click on any visible part of the Finder >>> window and that would bring the Finder to the front, but no other >>> Finder actions were performed. In panther (10.3.1), a single click >>> takes me to the directory corresponding to the column in which I >>> clicked, which might be several levels back from where I want to be. >>> Not only that, but the rest of the path is no longer visible, so if >>> I want to get back to where I was, I have to click on several >>> folders (and remember which ones I had clicked on previously). >>> >>> Is this a feature or a bug? Are others seeing this? I assume that >>> there is a reason for this change, and that it is desirable behavior >>> in some situations. It sure does not help my work flow, though. >>> >>> If I click on the Finder icon in the dock or on the Finder's title >>> bar (or bottom bar), I get what I want, but I'm used to clicking >>> anywhere in the Finder window. Is there a way to get the old >>> behavior back? I thought that usually a single click was used to >>> get the focus of a different application, and that a second click >>> was necessary to actually perform an operation. Has this philosophy >>> changed? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for any help, >>> >>> Gregg >>> >>> ================================= >>> Gregg Dinse From steve at paper-ape.com Mon Nov 17 11:51:30 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <2DDD14C8-1915-11D8-B646-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031118, 00:15 +0800, they whom i call David Cake wrote: > And I don't think supplying some extra options from within the >finder based on file type is a bad thing, though I think its easy to >go too far in this direction as well. i personally think an open plug-in API would be the best short-term approach here.. for example what shows in the preview pane of column view could be augmented by plug-ins that register for certain file types -- steve harley From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Mon Nov 17 12:53:02 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 11/17/03 8:18 AM, "Jes?s D?az" wrote: > El 17/11/2003, a las 16:50, Jim Rankin escribi?: > >> Underlying factor number three, I'll add factor number 4. The U.S. is >> spectacularly unpopular around the world right now, and I believe MS >> symbolizes many of the traits people associate with the U.S. So >> another reason to resist MS will be a desire to stick it to the man. >> That's what we're seeing in a lot of these government decisions to >> favor open source. > > You know, if people is stupid enough as to choose a tool or ANYTHING > because it comes from country A, B or C, then... then... well, then > that people are stupid. > > Or something. For some reason I read "company" instead of "country" the first time I read that :-) Dan From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 17 13:02:22 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: <1129CE5B-1921-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <8C8AC2CE-190E-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <1129CE5B-1921-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <2D09BAB7-1941-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 17 Nov 2003, at 17:11, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > On Nov 17, 2003, at 7:58 AM, Matt wrote: >> >> On 17 Nov 2003, at 14:46, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >>> >>> Can you make a click on the images go to a large version so I can >>> see it? >> >> Can you right-click and save as. The images are the largest I have. >> They're just resized in the IMG tag so they fit in a browser window. >> > I could and will. But you could also make them links to individual > pages that don't constrain the size. I could and won't because I'm an awkward sod[1]. M [1] Okay. I'll do it now. Too late to be any good for you and I apologise... From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 17 13:16:03 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32C31298-1943-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 17 Nov 2003, at 20:51, Dan Crevier wrote: > On 11/17/03 8:18 AM, "Jes?s D?az" wrote: >> You know, if people is stupid enough as to choose a tool or ANYTHING >> because it comes from country A, B or C, then... then... well, then >> that people are stupid. >> >> Or something. > > For some reason I read "company" instead of "country" the first time I > read > that :-) That'll be the paranoid schizophrenia. Let your manager know - you're ripe for a promotion. M -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From jer at mia.net Mon Nov 17 13:54:05 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> On Nov 3, 2003, at 9:40 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 7:10 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > >> For Pete's sake.. I have heard this crap long enough. How hard can >> it be to do this? I have a programmer on staff that indicated 5 >> minutes was the extent of time he would need to implement this. > > It's easy to sit back and comment on how long a certain feature should > take, but unless you're a programmer and have a understanding of the > entire Mail codebase, it's a meaningless comment. You have to take the > entire design into account. You can't just add code wherever you like. Of course it is... Because you know I am right. > > To you, this is the most important feature in the world, but there are > thousands of people that feel the same way about different features. > Developers have to prioritize, and someone is always going to feel > burned. > > It was simple to add, and someone actually did.. look at this: http://home.insightbb.com/~n9yty1/MailEnhancer/ It automatically update signature to match sending address in Mail.app.... Again, a simple feature.. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From jer at mia.net Mon Nov 17 13:59:41 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <6F0FD71C-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> On Nov 3, 2003, at 11:07 PM, Hsu wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 7:10 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > >> For Pete's sake.. I have heard this crap long enough. How hard can >> it be to do this? I have a programmer on staff that indicated 5 >> minutes was the extent of time he would need to implement this. So >> we have time to pretty up the icons? But no time to add a simple >> feature? I'm not sure I follow logic or believe it anymore. > > coding + testing + preferences + preferences testing + localization + > localization testing + documentation + documentation localization >= 5 > minutes. > > And, of course, X minutes on this is X minutes away from something > else. Maybe something else is more important. How many users have more > than 1 email account and use signatures and care which sig goes to > which account? blah, blah, blah.. Cry me a river.. > > I think it'd be a swell feature, but I can think of several other > swell features I'd like more - several are "5 minute" jobbies as well. > > Anyway, I found what I needed.. look at this: http://home.insightbb.com/~n9yty1/MailEnhancer/ It automatically update signature to match sending address in Mail.app.... Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From jer at mia.net Mon Nov 17 14:02:21 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: <901CB776-0EEC-11D8-978D-000A95913626@n9yty.com> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <901CB776-0EEC-11D8-978D-000A95913626@n9yty.com> Message-ID: <9F0735E0-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> On Nov 4, 2003, at 11:30 AM, Steven Palm wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 11:23 PM, Roger Howard wrote: >> How about you task your programmer with writing a plugin, apparently >> it's possible. Then you can donate it to Apple and hope they spend >> the five minutes integrating the thing... surely they have a janitor >> to spare. Or if they don't want it, then you'll still have a plugin >> you can use. > > Just a note that I finally released my plugin that does just this... > And a few other minor things. > > Search VersionTracker for MailEnhancer, or use the direct page: > > http://home.insightbb.com/~n9yty1/MailEnhancer/ > > I'm giving this away for free, so no whining about it. ;-) > > Thank you! Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From jer at mia.net Mon Nov 17 14:12:48 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <901CB776-0EEC-11D8-978D-000A95913626@n9yty.com> Message-ID: On Nov 4, 2003, at 3:32 PM, steve harley wrote: > at 20031104, 11:30 -0600, they whom i call Steven Palm wrote: >> http://home.insightbb.com/~n9yty1/MailEnhancer/ >> >> I'm giving this away for free, so no whining about it. ;-) > > thanks for a well sorted enhancement.. the "show > activity..." feature even works when AppleScript issues > "check for new mail" (which i do with my script that reports > the "new" count for each mailbox) > > this is another example of how a good plug-in architecture > can relieve the core dev team from pressure to implement > specific features.. i'd say one month's work on > comprehensive plug-in support would be far better spent than > "5 minutes" on this specific feature (though i'm sure Steven > spent a lot more than 5 minutes) > > True.. But kinda makes you wonder why time was spent changing the "Compose" to "New"? Time was spent prettying up the GUI as well.. Time well spent.. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From jer at mia.net Mon Nov 17 14:14:45 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: <6B0C28D2-0F61-11D8-8445-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <901CB776-0EEC-11D8-978D-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <6B0C28D2-0F61-11D8-8445-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <21801E4C-1949-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> On Nov 5, 2003, at 1:26 AM, Lukreme wrote: > On 04 Nov 2003, at 10:30, Steven Palm wrote: >> Just a note that I finally released my plugin that does just this... >> And a few other minor things. >> >> Search VersionTracker for MailEnhancer, or use the direct page: >> >> http://home.insightbb.com/~n9yty1/MailEnhancer/ > > "If you have a signature with the name set to your email address, then > it will use that signature when you send from that address. While > composing a message, if you change your email address, MailEnhancer > will change the signature to match (if one exists). However, if you > manually change the signature to something that does not match, > MailEnhancer will not override your choice (for this email) unless you > put it back to one that matches your current email address, and then > it will continue to keep them in sync. This might sound complicated, > perhaps, but I think you will find it intuitive once you start to use > it." > > Nice! > >> I'm giving this away for free, so no whining about it. ;-) > > What? That makes no sense. We on this list whine most abou the free > stuff (Mail, preview, Finder, etc). I really do not consider Mail free.. I have heard this said several times.. It seems that it came with the OS I purchased, so Free does not seem to be the case in that regard. Inexpensive, yes.. Free? No. I would gladly pay $99 for Mail.App itself if it would guarantee simple enhancements. > > You don't hear us bitching about the Stupidity of a certain Quack 6 > 'feature', right? > > That is because Quark is a dead product. Multi-Ad does so much more, for so much less.. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From sstevenson at mac.com Mon Nov 17 14:16:52 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <6847932D-1949-11D8-98C6-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 17, 2003, at 2:20 AM, Matt wrote: > You know, something was very familiar about the Longhorn interface. I > couldn't quite put my finger on it until I remembered the old > "Advanced Look and Feel" documents that Apple used to have. I scoured > the net and found a couple of programs. Personally, I'd be surprised if this is where they got the idea. To be fair, having a strip down the right side of the screen isn't exactly rocket science. It's also been used used for Office, WinIE's "channel" UI (see http://www.winnetmag.com/Files/126/Screen_01.GIF) and probably other MS products. It's also been used in Linux/Unix desktops for a while: http://themes.freshmeat.net/screenshots/24275/ http://themes.freshmeat.net/screenshots/24218/ Maybe some of this could be traced back to Next, though. Heck, Win95 UI widgets are almost exact replicas of their Next counterparts. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 17 14:33:30 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: <21801E4C-1949-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <901CB776-0EEC-11D8-978D-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <6B0C28D2-0F61-11D8-8445-000A95935598@kreme.com> <21801E4C-1949-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <03D4E6B1-194D-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 17 Nov 2003, at 21:58, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > On Nov 5, 2003, at 1:26 AM, Lukreme wrote: >> You don't hear us bitching about the Stupidity of a certain Quack 6 >> 'feature', right? > > That is because Quark is a dead product. Multi-Ad does so much more, > for so much less.. Spoken like someone who believes that GraphicConverter or The GIMP can just replace Photoshop. Unless there was a smiley that had been kidnapped... M From sstevenson at mac.com Mon Nov 17 14:36:11 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <3C8E1DBC-194D-11D8-98C6-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 17, 2003, at 1:52 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >> It's easy to sit back and comment on how long a certain feature >> should take, but unless you're a programmer and have a understanding >> of the entire Mail codebase, it's a meaningless comment. You have to >> take the entire design into account. You can't just add code wherever >> you like. > > Of course it is... Because you know I am right. > >> To you, this is the most important feature in the world, but there >> are thousands of people that feel the same way about different >> features. Developers have to prioritize, and someone is always going >> to feel burned. > > It was simple to add, and someone actually did.. > look at this: http://home.insightbb.com/~n9yty1/MailEnhancer/ > It automatically update signature to match sending address in > Mail.app.... > Again, a simple feature.. You're way out of your element here, handing out insults based on something you don't understand. "Simple to use" is not the same as "simple to implement." And more importantly, the process of adding a feature to the core source of Mail -- an application which is distributed by Apple and documented for millions of people in different countries -- is not the same as writing a third-party plugin. That's actually a benefit of a plugin architecture. But I think it's safe to say even the plugin approach took more than five minutes. > why time was spent changing the "Compose" to "New"? It must have taken a whole three seconds to retype the text string. Kudos to Steve Palm for providing a solution, though! - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 17 14:43:28 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: <6847932D-1949-11D8-98C6-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <6847932D-1949-11D8-98C6-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <11708D74-194E-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 17 Nov 2003, at 22:00, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Nov 17, 2003, at 2:20 AM, Matt wrote: > >> You know, something was very familiar about the Longhorn interface. I >> couldn't quite put my finger on it until I remembered the old >> "Advanced Look and Feel" documents that Apple used to have. I scoured >> the net and found a couple of programs. > > Personally, I'd be surprised if this is where they got the idea. Me too. I'm inferring that but don't believe it. > To be fair, having a strip down the right side of the screen isn't > exactly rocket science. It's also been used used for Office, WinIE's > "channel" UI (see http://www.winnetmag.com/Files/126/Screen_01.GIF) > and probably other MS products. > > It's also been used in Linux/Unix desktops for a while: > Maybe some of this could be traced back to Next, though. Heck, Win95 > UI widgets are almost exact replicas of their Next counterparts. Listen, if those rat bastards in Redmond can spread FUD through their shills[1] then I see it being up to us to find our own shills[2]. M [1] See under Thurott, Paul and Enderle, Rob [2] Ted Landau and that Gibson wanker need not apply. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Mon Nov 17 15:52:10 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You know that my opinion about that is exactly the same. It's not my fault that most of the software from certain company sucks ;-) j. El 17/11/2003, a las 21:51, Dan Crevier escribi?: > For some reason I read "company" instead of "country" the first time I > read > that :-) From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Mon Nov 17 16:57:01 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (James Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Importing Eudora Addressbooks into X Address Book? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Are there any utilities out there for importing addressbooks from Eudora into X's standard Address Book? I looked at the output of the "Back Up Addressbook" command, hoping I could just write a 10-minute Per-jig to do it (well, more like 2 hours, since I don't really know Perl all that well..), but was quite disheartened to see that it's a binary format instead of a nice, standard XML format of some kind. Also, in the X Address Book, is there anyway you can have a "nickname" (that you type in Mail, but won't be shown in the To field), and then a "real name" (which actulaly shows in the To field)? Jim From charlesd at newsguy.com Mon Nov 17 17:33:07 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Importing Eudora Addressbooks into X Address Book? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 19:57 -0500 17/11/2003, James Witte wrote: >Hi, > > Are there any utilities out there for importing addressbooks from Eudora >into X's standard Address Book? I looked at the output of the "Back Up >Addressbook" command, hoping I could just write a 10-minute Per-jig to do >it (well, more like 2 hours, since I don't really know Perl all that >well..), but was quite disheartened to see that it's a binary format >instead of a nice, standard XML format of some kind. Eudora Mailbox Cleaner, available via MacUpDate or VersionTracker, moves just about everything from Eudora to Mail. Warning: _all_ addressbook items get moved to the Apple Address Book. This includes everyone you've ever replied to, even if you've only done this once, as Eudora keeps track of all such persons unless you tell it not to. I found addresses which had been dead for literal _years_ after I ran it. Warning: all Eudora filters show as rules, complete with an 'imported' tag. You may have to go through the rules and do a little editing, as Eudora mailboxes and Mail mailboxes aren't handled the same way. > > Also, in the X Address Book, is there anyway you can have a "nickname" >(that you type in Mail, but won't be shown in the To field), and then a >"real name" (which actulaly shows in the To field)? If you mean what I think you do, this is standard. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From dave at difference.com.au Mon Nov 17 17:57:01 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <2DDD14C8-1915-11D8-B646-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: At 1:41 PM -0500 17/11/03, Jim Rankin wrote: >On Nov 17, 2003, at 11:15 AM, David Cake wrote: > >>But I do think that Microsoft is on to a good thing by trying to >>work away from the working with files only within the file system >>hierarchy - functions like finding all music, all photos etc >>besides simple file system views are definitely on the right track. > >I think, in general, Apple should continue pushing in the other >direction. The Finder is still necessary, but the less time we need >to spend in it on a daily basis, the more the interface will >improve, I think. Thats a different point - iPhoto, iTunes, etc should also make it easier to work with files not in their hierarchy. iTunes should potentially work with all music, iPhoto with all photos, without a separate import step - simply being aware of all appropriate file types. And if you are able to do fancy searches that take into account more than simply file type as I described, then the same functionality will be useful in iTunes, iPhoto, etc (consider it an enhanced version of smart playlists for example). And many other apps besides. To do this well can't be done entirely within the application - it requires work at the file system level. WinFS is Microsofts attempt to tackle this problem - don't confuse the usefulness of the underlying technology with Microsofts poor UI using it. Cheers David From omnilists at nhampton.net Mon Nov 17 18:36:04 2003 From: omnilists at nhampton.net (Nathan Hampton) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Custom Alert Sounds Message-ID: From checking the archive, I know this came up a couple of years ago, but is there any way to add custom alert sounds in Panther? I've tried ~/Library/Sounds and /Library/Audio/Sounds/Alerts, but the sounds I want aren't showing up in System Preferences. Am I missing something, or do I need to send Apple a feature request? --NCH From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Mon Nov 17 22:52:15 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Custom Alert Sounds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031118065130.GL12784@Dark-Age.local> On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 02:14:49PM -0600, Nathan Hampton wrote: : : From checking the archive, I know this came up a couple of years ago, : but is there any way to add custom alert sounds in Panther? I've tried : ~/Library/Sounds and /Library/Audio/Sounds/Alerts, but the sounds I : want aren't showing up in System Preferences. Am I missing something, : or do I need to send Apple a feature request? I have some AIFF sounds in ~/Library/Sounds and they show up for me in System Preference -> Sounds. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From rasmus at interactive-technology.com Tue Nov 18 03:45:11 2003 From: rasmus at interactive-technology.com (Peter Rasmussen) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Ann: ActiveDeveloper 2.16 released for 10.3 and 10.2 Message-ID: ActiveDeveloper Mailinglist ActiveDeveloper 2.16 released for MacOS X 10.3 and 10.2 Our "Develop & Continue" Objective-C & C IDE and Debugger Your companion for Cocoa, WebKit, and QuickTime. With its "Develop & Continue" ActiveDeveloper takes an Object and Development oriented approach to merging Objective-C Development and Debugging into ONE single combined activity - as opposed to the more Debugging and C stack level oriented approach taken in Xcode. ActiveDeveloper version 2.16 is integrated with the new Xcode IDE similar to how it has worked in concert with Project Builder for the last couple of years - so adding ActiveDeveloper you can have the best of both worlds. ActiveDeveloper 2.16 adds support for Mac OS X 10.3 Panther and it's new gcc 3.3, speeding up incremental compilation more than 50% on most tasks, bringing it's responsiveness back to the level from the gcc 2.x days and beyond. ActiveDeveloper 2.16 works with "Fix & Continue" and "ZeroLink" options turned both ON or OFF - just as you like. But since "ZeroLink" downgrades the usefulness of your Development builds, so you can't copy them around your system anymore or give them out to colleagues or beta testers - we tend to advice ActiveDeveloper users against using "ZeroLink" - because ActiveDeveloper gives them the same benefits - without the downsides ... All this makes ActiveDeveloper version 2.16 the best version ever. If you have any questions when you want to try ActiveDeveloper with your own projects - just send email - we have good support. Download from: http://www.interactive-technology.com/Download/ Information at, http://www.interactive-technology.com Feedback is very welcome at: mailto:feedback@interactive-technology.com Have a good day, InterACTIVE - Technology From kremels at kreme.com Tue Nov 18 04:59:04 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: On 17 Nov 2003, at 14:52, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >> To you, this is the most important feature in the world, but there >> are thousands of people that feel the same way about different >> features. Developers have to prioritize, and someone is always going >> to feel burned. > > It was simple to add, and someone actually did.. > > look at this: http://home.insightbb.com/~n9yty1/MailEnhancer/ > It automatically update signature to match sending address in > Mail.app.... 1) I doubt it took him 5 minutes. 2) It doesn't work that well. Oh sure, it will set the signature to the right one for the right account, but if there isn't a signature specified it simply uses "None" instead of respecting the "Random" setting. > Again, a simple feature.. More than 5 minutes and still not working quite right. Guess it was a -tiny- bit more complicated. -- if you ever get that chimp of your back, if you ever find the thing you lack, ah but you know you're only having a laugh. Oh, oh here we go again -- until the end. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031118/a621f592/smime.bin From omnilists at nhampton.net Tue Nov 18 07:18:02 2003 From: omnilists at nhampton.net (Nathan Hampton) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Custom Alert Sounds In-Reply-To: <20031118065130.GL12784@Dark-Age.local> References: <20031118065130.GL12784@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <59020B10-19DA-11D8-92DA-000A95A05242@nhampton.net> I think I've got it all straightened out... Everything was showing up in iChat and Mail, but then I realized that some of them were WAVE not AIFF (duh), and, therefore, won't show in System Preferences. I'll get around to converting them at some point... --NCH On 18 Nov 2003, at 12:51 AM, Eugene Lee wrote: > On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 02:14:49PM -0600, Nathan Hampton wrote: > : > : From checking the archive, I know this came up a couple of years ago, > : but is there any way to add custom alert sounds in Panther? I've > tried > : ~/Library/Sounds and /Library/Audio/Sounds/Alerts, but the sounds I > : want aren't showing up in System Preferences. Am I missing > something, > : or do I need to send Apple a feature request? > > I have some AIFF sounds in ~/Library/Sounds and they show up for me in > System Preference -> Sounds. > > > -- > Eugene Lee > http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > From siracusa at mindspring.com Tue Nov 18 07:23:04 2003 From: siracusa at mindspring.com (John Siracusa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: List cleanup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A question from the Entourage Talk list: On 11/18/03 12:55 AM, Scott Haneda wrote: > I must be on about 30 email mailing lists. There are about 5 that I don't > read too often, and only when there is some issue I need to resolve. I > would love to find a way to creat a rule that would take all messages older > than 2 weeks from X folder and move those to the trash. Is this possible? His question was answered, and I do this already in Entourage. My question is, how do I do this in Apple Mail? I'm also on a lot of lists, and manually trimming back folders full of messages is not my idea of a good time. Is there a way to do this automatically in Mail? -John From markm at tyrell.com Tue Nov 18 07:57:40 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Advanced Telnet For Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <99FC5C56-17D3-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <99FC5C56-17D3-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: Can anyone recommend a good Telnet client for Mac OS X? Need something with good (or standard?) keyboard mapping. Also need something that will respond to the printer on/off sequences in order to have stuff sent to the printer... hopefully with options of font selection, column width, fit to page, etc. I have a client that uses Reflections (a classic only app) and needs a replacement for Mac OS X. GLTerm doesn't handle the printing requirements but handles the keyboard mapping. MacWise does one page of the printing but seems to not do the rest of the pages... it's kind of clunky... and doesn't seem to handle the keyboard mapping nicely. Terminal doesn't handle the printing at all. Anyone have experience with MacTelnet's reincarnation on Mac OS X? Or anything else out there? Commercial app is acceptable. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Tue Nov 18 08:04:01 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <2DDD14C8-1915-11D8-B646-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <03A2E98A-19E0-11D8-892D-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 17, 2003, at 8:19 PM, David Cake wrote: > Thats a different point - iPhoto, iTunes, etc should also make it > easier to work with files not in their hierarchy. iTunes should > potentially work with all music, iPhoto with all photos, without a > separate import step - simply being aware of all appropriate file > types. I think this is where we reach agreement. iPhoto, iTunes, etc. should take advantage of file system level functionality to find ALL files with types they can handle, without any explicit import step. This should be totally invisible to the user, and yes, it does require file system level improvements. I still think putting a lot of resources into making the Finder a pseudo editor or even integrating viewers for various data types is a bad investment. IMHO, -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 947 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031118/ef253629/attachment.bin From ehrich at mninter.net Tue Nov 18 08:13:25 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Safari feature request Message-ID: iCab lets me save a web page in choice of three formats: full html, html without pictures, and plain text. I use the plain text option a lot. I hope that some future version of Safari will offer at least the plain text option. -- Bill Ehrich From zbir at urbanape.com Tue Nov 18 08:21:15 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Safari feature request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2E1F70B6-19E3-11D8-A24A-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Nov 18, 2003, at 9:58 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > iCab lets me save a web page in choice of three formats: full html, > html without pictures, and plain text. I use the plain text option a > lot. > > I hope that some future version of Safari will offer at least the > plain text option. Are you at least also filing these requests with Apple? This isn't even an Apple hosted list. Zac From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 18 09:54:03 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: iChat history Message-ID: So I ended up at Jens Alfke's page today, from the story on Cricket at Slashdot: I found this at the end. The last two paragraphs are specially surprising. iChat I left the Java team in September 2000. Too many months working on porting the awful AWT API without benefit of any kind of specification or decent documentation; of dealing with indignant developers who discovered that our platform didn't match a particularly essential bug in Sun's; of having my brain exploded by odd threading issues in Carbon; of tweaking frameworks so otherpeople could write their dumb apps instead of me getting to write my cool apps. I found a cool app to work on when I discovered an Apple job opening for writing an instant messaging application. Having been excited by IM ever since my Novita days, I leapt at the chance and got the job, as part of the same team that builds OS X's Mail application. My first task was to take a week-long training course on Cocoa, Apple's insanely cool object-oriented application frameworks based on NeXT's "OpenStep", which so totally kicks black-clad Ninja ass over all other GUI frameworks I've used that it isn't even funny. Within about a week of taking the training class I had a little prototype I called "Fezz" that drew a chat as a series of colorful speech balloons. About a week after that I had a buddy list that showed pictures and status messages for people. With some help from Eric Peyton I hooked my front end to the libfaim library (an ugly but functional open source reverse-engineered implementation of the AIM protocol) and had a useable IM client. Time to ship it! Well, in reality, there was about a year and a half of work still to be done. AIM started blocking 3rd party clients, so I switched to the open Jabber protocol. Meanwhile Apple's negotiations with AOL continued. I added lots of features like chat rooms and file transfer and transmitting buddy icons. I helped out on Address Book and a little tiny bit on Mail. Finally in October 2001 the AOL contract was signed, we got AOL's official AIM library, and we were ready to go. Several more engineers were hired, I explained the code to everyone and we divvied up the work. There was re-architecting, gluing the AOL code into place, more features, and bug-fixing. And most importantly, the HI designers were now working on the look and feel and holding s?ances with Steve Jobs every week to fine-tune everything. Keeping up with that is hard work, as features and behaviors changed on a week-by-week basis. But we managed to release iChat as part of the Panther release, OS X 10.2. After that we went on to iChat 2, which came to be called iChat AV since the major new feature was audio/visual conferencing. A group from the QuickTime team built the core AV framework and several of the iChat engineers integrated it in. I focused on some other new features, some of which shipped (like buddy groups) and others didn't, at least not yet. Oh, and lots of bug fixes! What's up next? Well, of course I can't say ... - Panther==OS X10.2? Buddy groups?? What buddy groups? j. From melliott at ncsa.uiuc.edu Tue Nov 18 10:09:17 2003 From: melliott at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Matt Elliott) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: iChat history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 6:52 PM +0100 11/18/03, Jes?s D?az wrote: >Panther==OS X10.2? >Buddy groups? What buddy groups? Panther is 10.3 Buddy groups. Open the buddy list. notice in the top center is a popup list that usually is set to All Groups. That's buddy groups. -- Matt Elliott Production Systems Infrastructure 217-265-0257 From mark at imap-partners.net Tue Nov 18 10:19:11 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: iChat history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 18 Nov 2003, at 18:52, Jes?s D?az wrote: > What buddy groups? You can sort your buddies into groups: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Picture 4.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 27069 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031118/5924a3a2/Picture4.pdf -------------- next part -------------- This was available pre-AV AFAICR. mark. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 18 10:25:39 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: iChat history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1DBE14C5-19F4-11D8-AD2F-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> My eyes! My eyes! Thanks mark. j. El 18/11/2003, a las 19:12, mark escribi?: > > On 18 Nov 2003, at 18:52, Jes?s D?az wrote: > >> What buddy groups? > > You can sort your buddies into groups: > > > > This was available pre-AV AFAICR. > > mark. From shawnce at mac.com Tue Nov 18 10:40:11 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Mail.app lockup downloading mail... Message-ID: <6D31BBA0-19F6-11D8-8E05-000A95A6C778@mac.com> I just had Mail.app lockup while downloading email from 5 email accounts at the same time while also its was applying routing rules to the items downloaded. The lockup resulted in the spinning beach ball and the activities in the activity viewer all paused, including the progress bar animations. A force quit and relaunch fixed the issue. Anyway trying to understand if any other have seen this type of failure. It looks like some type of thread deadlock. I filled bug rdar://3487652 (included sample captures of the application). --Shawn -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 622 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031118/1b513a74/attachment.bin From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 18 10:46:22 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: List cleanup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031118, 10:21 -0500, they whom i call John Siracusa wrote: >On 11/18/03 12:55 AM, Scott Haneda wrote: > > I > > would love to find a way to creat a rule that would take all messages older > > than 2 weeks from X folder and move those to the trash. Is this possible? > >[...] My question >is, how do I do this in Apple Mail? like this (any line below that doesn't start with a space is an overflow line that must be patched): -- for testing convenience property aging_cutoff : 3 * days -- how old a msg must be to dump it property target_mailbox : "junk" -- the mailbox to "age" property aged_mailbox : "dead letters" -- the destination for aged msgs tell application "Mail" -- Mail doesn't seem to allow moving directly to the trash, so make a trash receptacle if not (exists mailbox aged_mailbox) then make new mailbox at end with properties {name:aged_mailbox} end if set todays_date to current date set dead_letters to (every message of mailbox target_mailbox whose (date sent) is less than todays_date - aging_cutoff) repeat with a_message in dead_letters set mailbox of a_message to mailbox aged_mailbox end repeat end tell -- steve harley From shawnce at mac.com Tue Nov 18 10:52:00 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Safari feature request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 18, 2003, at 6:58 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > iCab lets me save a web page in choice of three formats: full html, > html without pictures, and plain text. I use the plain text option a > lot. > > I hope that some future version of Safari will offer at least the > plain text option. I suggest using the following link... http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/ -Shawn From siracusa at mindspring.com Tue Nov 18 10:53:21 2003 From: siracusa at mindspring.com (John Siracusa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Increase maxproc limit Message-ID: Does anyone know how to increase the maxproc limit in Panther? It's currently set to 100, which must be much smaller than it was in Jaguar because I never bumped into it before upgrading. I don't know where these limits get their defaults, and using the "limit", "ulimit", and "unlimit" commands from regular, admin, and root user shells does nothing (with and without the -h flag). The limit stays at 100. Any ideas? -John From fabienlroy at mac.com Tue Nov 18 11:05:03 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:29 2005 Subject: Advanced Telnet For Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: <42F89290-165E-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <2499F4F6-1692-11D8-90C7-000A95935598@kreme.com> <56364AF0-16D1-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <48744B1B-1727-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <80B3EDE3-1738-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> <84B436E6-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <251D4E0C-1749-11D8-B284-000A95935598@kreme.com> <66644D02-179A-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <26D70AAC-17B6-11D8-B395-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <99FC5C56-17D3-11D8-951F-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: Try iTerm Fabien On Nov 18, 2003, at 7:56 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > > Can anyone recommend a good Telnet client for Mac OS X? > > Need something with good (or standard?) keyboard mapping. > > Also need something that will respond to the printer on/off sequences > in order to have stuff sent to the printer... hopefully with options > of font selection, column width, fit to page, etc. > > I have a client that uses Reflections (a classic only app) and needs a > replacement for Mac OS X. > > GLTerm doesn't handle the printing requirements but handles the > keyboard mapping. > > MacWise does one page of the printing but seems to not do the rest of > the pages... it's kind of clunky... and doesn't seem to handle the > keyboard mapping nicely. > > Terminal doesn't handle the printing at all. > > Anyone have experience with MacTelnet's reincarnation on Mac OS X? > > Or anything else out there? > > Commercial app is acceptable. > > mark > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development > > Tyrell Software Corp > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Nov 18 11:22:46 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: iChat history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 18, 2003, at 10:52 AM, Jes?s D?az wrote: > So I ended up at Jens Alfke's page today, from the story on Cricket at > Slashdot: > > > This is the funniest line: " [Working with a bunch of Unix geeks -- who were all lovely people, I hasten to add -- was like stepping back in time fifteen years, only instead of people running 'csh' and 'vi' on a single VT220 terminal on their desktop, they now had a nice 20" color monitor displaying six or seven VT220s running 'csh' and 'vi'. This is progress?? Unix geeks are the Amish of the computer world.] " Chad From rpuls at kcore.de Tue Nov 18 11:29:31 2003 From: rpuls at kcore.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Puls?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Increase maxproc limit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0DC8E107-19FC-11D8-86A0-000393935A56@kcore.de> Hello John, Am 18.11.2003 um 19:44 schrieb John Siracusa: > Does anyone know how to increase the maxproc limit in Panther? It's > currently set to 100, which must be much smaller than it was in Jaguar > because I never bumped into it before upgrading. > > I don't know where these limits get their defaults, and using the > "limit", > "ulimit", and "unlimit" commands from regular, admin, and root user > shells > does nothing (with and without the -h flag). The limit stays at 100. > Any > ideas? I just tried "sysctl -a" on my Panther iBook and noticed this line in the output: kern.maxprocperuid = 100 Could that be the problem? You can change this value to, say, 150 with: sudo sysctl -w kern.maxprocperuid=150 I haven't verified whether this actually increases the process limit, but at least it did not crash my system. :-) Please let me know if this worked for you. Kind regards, Rene Puls From mmalc_lists at mac.com Tue Nov 18 11:30:31 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Safari cookies are apparently vulnerable Message-ID: <5177C431-19FC-11D8-859D-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> This may be of interest to others. mmalc Begin forwarded message: Subject: Safari cookies are apparently vulnerable [...] If you haven't seen this page http://alive.znep.com/~marcs/security/mozillacookie/ and the demo http://alive.znep.com/~marcs/security/mozillacookie/demo.html you might want to. [...] From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Nov 18 11:31:41 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Mail.app lockup downloading mail... In-Reply-To: <6D31BBA0-19F6-11D8-8E05-000A95A6C778@mac.com> References: <6D31BBA0-19F6-11D8-8E05-000A95A6C778@mac.com> Message-ID: <530392B4-19FC-11D8-BA68-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 18, 2003, at 11:38 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > I just had Mail.app lockup while downloading email from 5 email > accounts at the same time while also its was applying routing rules to > the items downloaded. The lockup resulted in the spinning beach ball > and the activities in the activity viewer all paused, including the > progress bar animations. A force quit and relaunch fixed the issue. I assume this was on Panther. I had similar things happen upgrading from 10.1.x to 10.2 . Exact same symptoms. Happened every time I opened mail after the upgrade. I ended up having to delete my accounts and reset them. Chad > > Anyway trying to understand if any other have seen this type of > failure. It looks like some type of thread deadlock. > > I filled bug rdar://3487652 (included sample captures of the > application). > > --Shawn From ian at SKYLIST.net Tue Nov 18 11:40:44 2003 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Increase maxproc limit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <28850429-19FD-11D8-8CD2-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> On Nov 18, 2003, at 12:44 PM, John Siracusa wrote: > Does anyone know how to increase the maxproc limit in Panther? It's > currently set to 100, which must be much smaller than it was in Jaguar > because I never bumped into it before upgrading. > I don't know where these limits get their defaults, and using the > "limit", > "ulimit", and "unlimit" commands from regular, admin, and root user > shells > does nothing (with and without the -h flag). The limit stays at 100. > Any > ideas? > I was able to up the limit by getting a root shell and running "ulimit -u 1024" (in bash). That only got me up to 532, and using sysctl, I found the following value: kern.maxproc = 532 I was able to up the maxproc to 1024 using "sysctl -w kern.maxproc=1024" and then the ulimit command was able to set that to 1024. So that much seems to work for me. I have no idea how you set the defaults. Ian From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Tue Nov 18 12:29:21 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? Message-ID: <20031118202838.GE1750@Dark-Age.local> http://www.unsanity.com/haxies/shapeshifter/ ShapeShifter is a revolutionary new product that lets you change the overall appearance of your Mac using 'themes'. We're not talking about just desktop backgrounds and icons here, we're talking about everything - the look of windows, menus, buttons, absolutely everything. You don't wear the same clothes everyday, your house doesn't look exactly like your neighbor's - why should the computing interface you use everyday be any different. You personalize your physical workspace to suit your tastes and whims, so why not your Mac? So after several years of no Kaleidoscope, the lickable quality of Aqua, and now the brushed aluminum iApp-ish look of Panther, is it a sign that customizing of the "look" of OS X should remain in the hands of Apple or should it be opened up to the end user? Or is it even a big deal? -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From jared at 23x.net Tue Nov 18 12:46:23 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Updates galore ... Message-ID: So, no-one's going to froth over the new 20" iMac or the dual 1.8GHz G5 or FCP 4.1 (G5 optimised)? -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "Watashi-wa shin no SUPORUKU desu" From celkins at mac.com Tue Nov 18 12:59:14 2003 From: celkins at mac.com (Christopher Elkins) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Increase maxproc limit In-Reply-To: <28850429-19FD-11D8-8CD2-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> References: <28850429-19FD-11D8-8CD2-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> Message-ID: <26DA6424-1A07-11D8-B63C-000393B7C8FA@mac.com> On Nov 18, 2003, at 11:26 AM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > On Nov 18, 2003, at 12:44 PM, John Siracusa wrote: > >> Does anyone know how to increase the maxproc limit in Panther? It's >> currently set to 100, which must be much smaller than it was in Jaguar >> because I never bumped into it before upgrading. >> I don't know where these limits get their defaults, and using the >> "limit", >> "ulimit", and "unlimit" commands from regular, admin, and root user >> shells >> does nothing (with and without the -h flag). The limit stays at 100. >> Any >> ideas? > > I was able to up the limit by getting a root shell and running "ulimit > -u 1024" (in bash). That only got me up to 532, and using sysctl, I > found the following value: > > kern.maxproc = 532 > > I was able to up the maxproc to 1024 using "sysctl -w > kern.maxproc=1024" and then the ulimit command was able to set that to > 1024. So that much seems to work for me. > > I have no idea how you set the defaults. A cursory look at /etc/rc (starting around line 2264) confirms my suspicion that it works just like in FreeBSD, where you can add them to /etc/sysctl.conf. -- Christopher Elkins From jmelloy at visualdistortion.org Tue Nov 18 13:04:10 2003 From: jmelloy at visualdistortion.org (Jeffrey Melloy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: <20031118202838.GE1750@Dark-Age.local> References: <20031118202838.GE1750@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: On Nov 18, 2003, at 2:28 PM, Eugene Lee wrote: > http://www.unsanity.com/haxies/shapeshifter/ > > ShapeShifter is a revolutionary new product that lets you change > the overall appearance of your Mac using 'themes'. We're not > talking about just desktop backgrounds and icons here, we're > talking about everything - the look of windows, menus, buttons, > absolutely everything. You don't wear the same clothes > everyday, your house doesn't look exactly like your neighbor's - > why should the computing interface you use everyday be any > different. You personalize your physical workspace to suit your > tastes and whims, so why not your Mac? > > So after several years of no Kaleidoscope, the lickable quality of > Aqua, > and now the brushed aluminum iApp-ish look of Panther, is it a sign > that > customizing of the "look" of OS X should remain in the hands of Apple > or > should it be opened up to the end user? Or is it even a big deal? > The default theme is, quite possibly, the ugliest theme on a computer I have ever seen. Supposedly they had some theme bigwigs working on it, but if that's the best they could come up with (a horrible blue thing where everything's the same color and you can't tell what any controls are -- the scroll arrows, for example, are featureless boxes), it's not gong to fly. I've never been so glad to see a brushed-metal window in my life. I expect it to do fairly well once themers get going, though. This seems like something people want. Jeff jmelloy@visualdistortion.org From ian at SKYLIST.net Tue Nov 18 13:15:00 2003 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Increase maxproc limit In-Reply-To: <26DA6424-1A07-11D8-B63C-000393B7C8FA@mac.com> References: <28850429-19FD-11D8-8CD2-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <26DA6424-1A07-11D8-B63C-000393B7C8FA@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 18, 2003, at 2:38 PM, Christopher Elkins wrote: >> >> I was able to up the limit by getting a root shell and running >> "ulimit -u 1024" (in bash). That only got me up to 532, and using >> sysctl, I found the following value: >> >> kern.maxproc = 532 >> >> I was able to up the maxproc to 1024 using "sysctl -w >> kern.maxproc=1024" and then the ulimit command was able to set that >> to 1024. So that much seems to work for me. >> >> I have no idea how you set the defaults. > > A cursory look at /etc/rc (starting around line 2264) confirms my > suspicion that it works just like in FreeBSD, where you can add them > to /etc/sysctl.conf. Unfortunately, setting kern.maxprocperuid doesn't seem to change the defaults - setting that to 1024 doesn't seem to up my limit even after I log out and back in. Ian From lomion at mac.com Tue Nov 18 13:29:11 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: List cleanup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 18, 2003, at 10:21 AM, John Siracusa wrote: > A question from the Entourage Talk list: > > On 11/18/03 12:55 AM, Scott Haneda wrote: >> I must be on about 30 email mailing lists. There are about 5 that I >> don't >> read too often, and only when there is some issue I need to resolve. >> I >> would love to find a way to creat a rule that would take all messages >> older >> than 2 weeks from X folder and move those to the trash. Is this >> possible? > > His question was answered, and I do this already in Entourage. My > question > is, how do I do this in Apple Mail? I'm also on a lot of lists, and > manually trimming back folders full of messages is not my idea of a > good > time. Is there a way to do this automatically in Mail? > yes there is, the rules in mail.app have a date received criteria. You can then probably do some applescript to have it fire automatically. --Larry From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Tue Nov 18 13:41:05 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Updates galore ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031118213528.GF1750@Dark-Age.local> On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 09:42:49PM +0100, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: : : So, no-one's going to froth over the new 20" iMac or the dual 1.8GHz G5 : or FCP 4.1 (G5 optimised)? The base model for the 20" iMac costs $2,199 USD. It's nice, but I wonder if Apple is starting to cannibalize its PowerMac line. BTW, Apple's 20" Cinema Display still costs $1,299 USD. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From sstevenson at mac.com Tue Nov 18 14:14:50 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: <20031118202838.GE1750@Dark-Age.local> References: <20031118202838.GE1750@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: On Nov 18, 2003, at 12:28 PM, Eugene Lee wrote: > "ShapeShifter is a revolutionary new product that lets you change > the overall appearance of your Mac using 'themes'" I like the concept, but I wonder if someone from Unsanity could tell us vaguely how this is implemented so administrators, tech support staff, developers (not to mention people on this list) can determine if they're going to have to field a fleet of tech support issues and general harassment resulting from low-level hacks. The aspect that's particularly concerning to me is that the gee-whiz factor is going to attract a lot of non-technical people, not realizing the potential implications of installing something like this. Basically, I have serious doubts that something like this can be implemented in a "good citizen" manner on Mac OS X, but I'm willing to hear the other side of the story. Here's one comment (http://homepage.mac.com/max_08/): > "This is no longer an issue with ShapeShifter. It does not touch any > of your > system files. It simply tells application to look for them elsewhere." Call me skeptical, but I don't think there's anything in the standard APIs for intercepting requests for UI resources. Hmmmm. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From ian at SKYLIST.net Tue Nov 18 14:25:24 2003 From: ian at SKYLIST.net (Ian Ragsdale) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Increase maxproc limit In-Reply-To: References: <28850429-19FD-11D8-8CD2-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <26DA6424-1A07-11D8-B63C-000393B7C8FA@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 18, 2003, at 4:16 PM, Christopher Elkins wrote: > On Nov 18, 2003, at 12:58 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > >> On Nov 18, 2003, at 2:38 PM, Christopher Elkins wrote: >>>> >>>> I was able to up the limit by getting a root shell and running >>>> "ulimit -u 1024" (in bash). That only got me up to 532, and using >>>> sysctl, I found the following value: >>>> >>>> kern.maxproc = 532 >>>> >>>> I was able to up the maxproc to 1024 using "sysctl -w >>>> kern.maxproc=1024" and then the ulimit command was able to set that >>>> to 1024. So that much seems to work for me. >>>> >>>> I have no idea how you set the defaults. >>> >>> A cursory look at /etc/rc (starting around line 2264) confirms my >>> suspicion that it works just like in FreeBSD, where you can add them >>> to /etc/sysctl.conf. >> >> Unfortunately, setting kern.maxprocperuid doesn't seem to change the >> defaults - setting that to 1024 doesn't seem to up my limit even >> after I log out and back in. > > That file is read at system startup, so you'll need to restart to see > any affect. Miscommunication - I set that sysctl using the sysctl command, and "sysctl kern.maxprocperuid" shows the proper value, but I don't get that many processes allowed. I didn't touch the sysctl.conf file at all. Ian From jer at mia.net Tue Nov 18 14:30:37 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: On Nov 18, 2003, at 6:58 AM, Lukreme wrote: > On 17 Nov 2003, at 14:52, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >>> To you, this is the most important feature in the world, but there >>> are thousands of people that feel the same way about different >>> features. Developers have to prioritize, and someone is always going >>> to feel burned. >> >> It was simple to add, and someone actually did.. >> >> look at this: http://home.insightbb.com/~n9yty1/MailEnhancer/ >> It automatically update signature to match sending address in >> Mail.app.... > > 1) I doubt it took him 5 minutes. I never said it did. > > 2) It doesn't work that well. Oh sure, it will set the signature to > the right one for the right account, but if there isn't a signature > specified it simply uses "None" instead of respecting the "Random" > setting. So... Your point is? I have a sig assigned to every account. > >> Again, a simple feature.. > > More than 5 minutes and still not working quite right. Guess it was a > -tiny- bit more complicated. ? Not sure I follow you here.. It is more than Apple did. Does not look to complicated to me.. Again, I have always said I was speaking out of school, but truncating email addresses to names in message windows and making the trash icon pretty, and changing compose to new is hardly what I would have called important.. > Look, what on earth is everyone getting so defensive about. God forbid someone actually expect a bit more from Apple. Think a Little Different my man.. There is always room for improvement. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From celkins at mac.com Tue Nov 18 14:33:00 2003 From: celkins at mac.com (Christopher Elkins) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Increase maxproc limit In-Reply-To: References: <28850429-19FD-11D8-8CD2-000A959E8A7E@SKYLIST.net> <26DA6424-1A07-11D8-B63C-000393B7C8FA@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 18, 2003, at 12:58 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: > On Nov 18, 2003, at 2:38 PM, Christopher Elkins wrote: >>> >>> I was able to up the limit by getting a root shell and running >>> "ulimit -u 1024" (in bash). That only got me up to 532, and using >>> sysctl, I found the following value: >>> >>> kern.maxproc = 532 >>> >>> I was able to up the maxproc to 1024 using "sysctl -w >>> kern.maxproc=1024" and then the ulimit command was able to set that >>> to 1024. So that much seems to work for me. >>> >>> I have no idea how you set the defaults. >> >> A cursory look at /etc/rc (starting around line 2264) confirms my >> suspicion that it works just like in FreeBSD, where you can add them >> to /etc/sysctl.conf. > > Unfortunately, setting kern.maxprocperuid doesn't seem to change the > defaults - setting that to 1024 doesn't seem to up my limit even after > I log out and back in. That file is read at system startup, so you'll need to restart to see any affect. -- Christopher Elkins From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Nov 18 14:48:04 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <311294C8-1A19-11D8-B973-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 18, 2003, at 3:24 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >> >> More than 5 minutes and still not working quite right. Guess it was >> a -tiny- bit more complicated. > > ? Not sure I follow you here.. It is more than Apple did. For this particular feature, it is more than Apple did. But overall, Mail.app changed A LOT. > Does not look to complicated to me.. Again, I have always said I was > speaking out of school, but truncating email addresses to names in > message windows and making the trash icon pretty, and changing compose > to new is hardly what I would have called important.. Mail.app changed a lot more than that. Mail.app is a lot faster and does a lot of other neat and nifty things. >> > Look, what on earth is everyone getting so defensive about. Because you are behaving like an *sshole, criticizing Apple for not putting your feature in Mail.app and then belittling the hard work that WAS put into Mail.app. Mail.app is not perfect, but it is a lot better than it was and people like you who have no respect for that but just whine and moan do not make the lives of the Mail.app developers any easier. > God forbid someone actually expect a bit more from Apple. We do and they do. See above. > Think a Little Different my man.. ??????? See above > > There is always room for improvement. The first thing would be for you to improve your manners and your logical reasoning. Chad From steve at paper-ape.com Tue Nov 18 14:53:15 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: List cleanup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031118, 16:26 -0500, they whom i call Lawrence Sica wrote: >yes there is, the rules in mail.app have a date received criteria. >You can then probably do some applescript to have it fire >automatically. that sounds new to Panther Mail ... in Mail 1.2.5 (on 10.2.6) i can manually add "Date" to the list of headers available for rules, but i can't do greater than/less than comparisons on it -- steve harley From rogerhoward at mac.com Tue Nov 18 14:58:23 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1255357B-1A1A-11D8-94B8-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> On Tuesday, November 18, 2003, at 02:24 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > > On Nov 18, 2003, at 6:58 AM, Lukreme wrote: > >> On 17 Nov 2003, at 14:52, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >>>> To you, this is the most important feature in the world, but there >>>> are thousands of people that feel the same way about different >>>> features. Developers have to prioritize, and someone is always >>>> going to feel burned. >>> >>> It was simple to add, and someone actually did.. >>> >>> look at this: http://home.insightbb.com/~n9yty1/MailEnhancer/ >>> It automatically update signature to match sending address in >>> Mail.app.... >> >> 1) I doubt it took him 5 minutes. > > I never said it did. Oh please, you implied - if not outright stated - that it would take your staff programmer 5 minutes to add, and surely this estimate would apply to others. >> 2) It doesn't work that well. Oh sure, it will set the signature to >> the right one for the right account, but if there isn't a signature >> specified it simply uses "None" instead of respecting the "Random" >> setting. > > So... Your point is? I have a sig assigned to every account. He's commenting on the implementation, for people who haven't tried it, and for you so you're not disappointed again if it doesn't work like you had envisioned... then again, you've always got that staff programmer. >>> Again, a simple feature.. >> >> More than 5 minutes and still not working quite right. Guess it was >> a -tiny- bit more complicated. > > ? Not sure I follow you here.. It is more than Apple did. Does not > look to complicated to me.. Again, I have always said I was speaking > out of school, but truncating email addresses to names in message > windows and making the trash icon pretty, and changing compose to new > is hardly what I would have called important.. Which is why you aren't the product manager. You're not privy to the priorities. Sure, as a non-project manager it's not what you would have done, if you were building Mail.app to fill your personal needs. But then, that's not what product managers do. > Look, what on earth is everyone getting so defensive about. God > forbid someone actually expect a bit more from Apple. Think a Little > Different my man.. Oh please, no one was getting defensive about your feature request, people objected to your characterizations of the effort (your five minute estimate) in this task without any foundation, let alone an acknowledgment of the other priorities trumping it. It's not about Think Different, that's an old and irrelevant refrain usually meaning "think my way, damnit" by people who utter it, it's simply about acknowledging that you're in no position to preach to Apple about how much effort and cost is associated with this, not to mention the overall prioritization of work on this project. You continue to characterize the situation as Your One Little 5-Minute Feature vs. Apple Wasting Time on Making the Trash Look Prettier. That's it, yeah. No one objected to the notion of this feature being desirable to at least some... and no one got defensive, other than you. It was simply the annoyance of an armchair quarterback, screeching that he's got a perspective surely no one else appreciates, and is in a better position to make the call than the poor saps on the field, or the managers over near the bench. Now, FFS, can we let this die? You got what you wanted, and apparently you can go back to Jag since you now have no reason to have updated. Hell, I wasn't even involved in the original thread... -R From dennyrex at earthlink.net Tue Nov 18 15:11:03 2003 From: dennyrex at earthlink.net (Rick Sanford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5B080988-1A1B-11D8-921B-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DentalLogoTooth_tiny_alpha.tiff Type: image/tiff Size: 530 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031118/62bfeee7/DentalLogoTooth_tiny_alpha.tiff -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From kcall at mac.com Tue Nov 18 16:06:02 2003 From: kcall at mac.com (Kevin Callahan) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: osxaudio.com Message-ID: <1ACAB5A6-1A24-11D8-AF00-000A95C4C6D2@mac.com> anybody know what happened to osxaudio.com? can't get to the index page anymore. K From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 18 16:13:52 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: <5B080988-1A1B-11D8-921B-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> References: <5B080988-1A1B-11D8-921B-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6E4D3885-1A24-11D8-A419-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> Well, it works quite nice so far. Heh, I even like it :-) But I doubt people will pay $20 for a face lift. I know I won't unless I fall in love with some theme. So far, not such a thing yet. Matt will get the Halo theme, no doubt about it. j. From sstevenson at mac.com Tue Nov 18 17:14:01 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: <6E4D3885-1A24-11D8-A419-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> References: <5B080988-1A1B-11D8-921B-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> <6E4D3885-1A24-11D8-A419-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> Message-ID: <92104D2C-1A2D-11D8-A142-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 18, 2003, at 4:07 PM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > Well, it works quite nice so far I don't expect it to crash in the first two hours -- that's the whole issue. If it did, people would blame the APE utility. But it's down the line when the hack tickles something in a particular way that finger pointing starts. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From lomion at mac.com Tue Nov 18 18:16:01 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: List cleanup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43F6BE1A-1A36-11D8-8321-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 18, 2003, at 5:40 PM, steve harley wrote: > at 20031118, 16:26 -0500, they whom i call Lawrence Sica wrote: >> yes there is, the rules in mail.app have a date received criteria. >> You can then probably do some applescript to have it fire >> automatically. > > that sounds new to Panther Mail ... in Mail 1.2.5 (on > 10.2.6) i can manually add "Date" to the list of headers > available for rules, but i can't do greater than/less than > comparisons on it > It lets you filter based on age vs. sent or received. I haven't used it yet, but I might to have it moved old stuff i don't file but want to keep to a separate mailbox. --Larry From kremels at kreme.com Tue Nov 18 18:40:01 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Panther and Mail.app signatures. In-Reply-To: References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <99392DEC-1A39-11D8-A8E5-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 18 Nov 2003, at 15:24, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > On Nov 18, 2003, at 6:58 AM, I wrote: >> 2) It doesn't work that well. Oh sure, it will set the signature to >> the right one for the right account, but if there isn't a signature >> specified it simply uses "None" instead of respecting the "Random" >> setting. > > So... Your point is? I have a sig assigned to every account. that's nice for you. I have random signatures wset for all but one account. >> More than 5 minutes and still not working quite right. Guess it was >> a -tiny- bit more complicated. > > ? Not sure I follow you here.. It is more than Apple did. Apple delivered a working signature method that allows random signatures (what I want) at the cost of account-specific signatures (what you want). You found a utility that does what you want, but still doesn't do what I want. that's fine for you, but slamming Apple for not picking YOUR wants over MINE is silly. -- When the stars threw down their spears And watered heaven with their tears, Did He smile his work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031118/c5618a57/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Tue Nov 18 18:51:01 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: List cleanup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3493C4-1A3B-11D8-A8E5-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 18 Nov 2003, at 08:21, John Siracusa wrote: > A question from the Entourage Talk list: > On 11/18/03 12:55 AM, Scott Haneda wrote: >> I must be on about 30 email mailing lists. There are about 5 that I >> don't >> read too often, and only when there is some issue I need to resolve. >> I >> would love to find a way to creat a rule that would take all messages >> older >> than 2 weeks from X folder and move those to the trash. Is this >> possible? > > His question was answered, and I do this already in Entourage. My > question > is, how do I do this in Apple Mail? I'm also on a lot of lists, and > manually trimming back folders full of messages is not my idea of a > good > time. Is there a way to do this automatically in Mail? A cron launched task that cruises your IMAP folders? Well, that's how _I_ would do it. But what i actually do is have procmail filter all incoming mailing lists into monthly folders. Here is the meat of the recipe: <<<<< CUT HERE >>>>> MLDIR=$HOME/Mail #Get the current date DATE=`date '+%d-%b-%Y'` #log to ~/procmail_log.01-Jan-2003 MYLOGFILE=$HOME/procmail_log.$DATE LOGFILE=$MYLOGFILE #name for month suffix MONTHFOLDER=`date +%Y-%m` # This part finds the name of the list from the headers. [ ] contains a space and a tab. :0 * 9876543210^0 ^(Sender:[ ]*owner-|X-BeenThere:[ ]*|Delivered-To:[ ]*mailing list )\/[-A-Za-z0-9_+]+ * 9876543210^0 ^(List-Post:[ ]*(>>>> -- Love is like oxygen/You get too much/you get too high/Not enough and you're gonna die -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031118/63afa2e9/smime.bin From sstevenson at mac.com Tue Nov 18 19:37:07 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Software engineering (Re: Panther and Mail.app signatures.) In-Reply-To: References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> Message-ID: <71011C03-1A41-11D8-A105-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 18, 2003, at 2:24 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >> More than 5 minutes and still not working quite right. Guess it was >> a -tiny- bit more complicated. > > ? Not sure I follow you here.. It is more than Apple did. Does not > look to complicated to me.. This is a common misperception. Something that seems simple at the user interface level was not *necessarily* easy to implement. And the way you visualize it working may not work for everyone else. It's reasonable to say you would like to see a particular feature in Mail. But without having experience with large software projects, it's unreasonable to make claims how long the feature would take to implement, or how important your feature request is in contrast to others. Think of a software program as a city. It's easy enough to say "you should put a traffic light at this intersection." It's much harder to say exactly how that that traffic light will affect overall flow of traffic throughout the city. Is it a major intersection? Is it packed at commute time? Is it near the freeway? So imagine the Mail engineering team, trying to manage the placement of traffic lights, parking garages, freeways, etc. They're trying to keep millions of citizens happy, each with their own wants and needs. And while you personally may want them to erect a traffic light right then and there, they have to keep the big picture in mind, or the city comes to a standstill. This is also why it's difficult for someone who doesn't work on the project (even an engineer) to have a realistic idea about how long something should take to implement. If you've never been to the city, you don't know where the high-traffic areas are. > Again, I have always said I was speaking out of school, but truncating > email addresses to names in message windows and making the trash icon > pretty, and changing compose to new is hardly what I would have > called important.. It's unlikely the same people who write core functionality for Mail are designing the icons. The biggest enhancement in Panther Mail appears to be raw speed. (just waiting for Lewis to rail me about using metaphors :) - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From alexfuller at mac.com Tue Nov 18 19:43:49 2003 From: alexfuller at mac.com (Alex Fuller) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: <92104D2C-1A2D-11D8-A142-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <5B080988-1A1B-11D8-921B-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> <6E4D3885-1A24-11D8-A419-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <92104D2C-1A2D-11D8-A142-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: On 19 Nov 2003, at 1:13 am, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Nov 18, 2003, at 4:07 PM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > >> Well, it works quite nice so far > > I don't expect it to crash in the first two hours -- that's the whole > issue. If it did, people would blame the APE utility. But it's down > the line when the hack tickles something in a particular way that > finger pointing starts. > > - Scott I don't see why this is suddenly an issue where it wasn't before with Kaleidoscope. It's up to the user what they run and what risks they take, and the possibility of software like Kaleidoscope causing an extension conflict on OS 9 was just as high if not higher. I won't be installing ShapeShifter on my system, but I think Unsanity deserve some credit for finding some natty tricks. All this stuff about letting administrators, tech support staff etc know what they're doing is a bit OTT for me - in a corporate environment which is going to worry about such things the user probably won't have admin access to their machine anyway. Besides, Mac OS X is used in homes too and this software is clearly the sort of thing which will typically appeal to the home user. Alex From markm at tyrell.com Tue Nov 18 19:55:04 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <51CC2998-1817-11D8-9293-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: At 1:29 AM -0800 11/16/03, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:59 AM, Steve Sobek wrote: > >>He offers no proof or details on why -- or how -- this is so. >> >This excerpt from may give more insight. > >There are a number of other entries which give more background on >the chap himself. See in particular, for example, "About Apple >enthusiasm vs. tech enthusiasm" (Monday, October 13, 2003). The >journalist doth protest too much, methinks... I think he just likes to be a lot like MacKiDo or iGeek (or visa versa). These people exist in the world. They have to have "balance"... and they figure the way to do so is to somehow be negative to show they are somehow "true" or "objective". I think they misunderstand the terms. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From zbir at urbanape.com Tue Nov 18 20:11:03 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Software engineering (Re: Panther and Mail.app signatures.) In-Reply-To: <71011C03-1A41-11D8-A105-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> <71011C03-1A41-11D8-A105-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <5B7E4DBD-1A46-11D8-AED9-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Nov 18, 2003, at 10:35 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > (just waiting for Lewis to rail me about using metaphors :) That would likely be Jared. He's the analogy agnostic. Zac From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Tue Nov 18 20:26:01 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (James Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Software engineering (Re: Panther and Mail.app signatures.) In-Reply-To: <71011C03-1A41-11D8-A105-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: > Think of a software program as a city. It's easy enough to say "you > should put a traffic light at this intersection." It's much harder to > say exactly how that that traffic light will affect overall flow of > traffic throughout the city. Is it a major intersection? Is it packed > at commute time? Is it near the freeway? Ever heard of the Fluency project? It's a poject whos main aim (I think..) is solving just this problem of having interfaces that become too complicated to keep from balooining out of control complexity-wise when you just want to add a small feature (which it describes as a problem with the current MVC model). See, http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~rawlins/symphony/mvc2/mvc2-problem.html A few other somewhat related projects and pages of links: Knownspace Manifesto http://hydrogen.knownspace.org/manifesto.jsp Problems With Today's Interfaces http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~rawlins/website/interface/problems.html http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~rawlins/ Jim From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Nov 18 20:32:21 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Software engineering (Re: Panther and Mail.app signatures.) In-Reply-To: <71011C03-1A41-11D8-A105-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> <71011C03-1A41-11D8-A105-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <26109C58-1A49-11D8-B973-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 18, 2003, at 8:35 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > Think of a software program as a city. It's easy enough to say "you > should put a traffic light at this intersection." It's much harder to > say exactly how that that traffic light will affect overall flow of > traffic throughout the city. Is it a major intersection? Is it packed > at commute time? Is it near the freeway? > > So imagine the Mail engineering team, trying to manage the placement > of traffic lights, parking garages, freeways, etc. They're trying to > keep millions of citizens happy, each with their own wants and needs. > And while you personally may want them to erect a traffic light right > then and there, they have to keep the big picture in mind, or the city > comes to a standstill. > > This is also why it's difficult for someone who doesn't work on the > project (even an engineer) to have a realistic idea about how long > something should take to implement. If you've never been to the city, > you don't know where the high-traffic areas are. > Sounds like an interesting game I played once. Unfortunately it was only on the PC (Windows or Linux) This is a Sim City like game that focuses on traffic flow etc. Some aspects of the game are not as detailed as Sim City but the traffic flow and the traffic related parts are a lot more. The version above is a cheap shareware version. The earlier version I played was freeware I believe. If you have a PC of some sort available, it is worth a go. Chad From sstevenson at mac.com Tue Nov 18 20:56:09 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: References: <5B080988-1A1B-11D8-921B-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> <6E4D3885-1A24-11D8-A419-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <92104D2C-1A2D-11D8-A142-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <9B98F5B4-1A4C-11D8-B6F0-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 18, 2003, at 7:39 PM, Alex Fuller wrote: > I don't see why this is suddenly an issue where it wasn't before with > Kaleidoscope. What do you mean? It was huge issue with Kaleidoscope. > It's up to the user what they run and what risks they take Assuming they understand the risk. You don't hand a glass of windex to a child. If you install it, that's your issue. If my sister installs it, it's my issue. > I won't be installing ShapeShifter on my system, but I think Unsanity > deserve some credit for finding some natty tricks. It's a very clever trick, and an impressive bit of engineering. My concern is people who use the software don't necessarily understand how a piece of software that mucks with things at the level that APE does can cause problems; or like it so much that they don't want to assign blame to it. This results in blaming instability on Mac OS X, a particular application, a hard drive, etc. As we've seen, there are a lot of misperceptions from the general public about how software works. > Besides, Mac OS X is used in homes too and this software is clearly > the sort of thing which will typically appeal to the home user. But it's the home user that seeks technical support from Apple, support forms/mailing lists, etc. I don't think Unsanity is bad for making it, I just have concerns about people thinking of it as normal Mac OS X application, which it does not appear to be. APE doesn't use the APIs in only recommended ways, does it? By contrast, Konfabulator appears to be a good Mac OS X citizen. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From thomasv at mac.com Tue Nov 18 21:11:35 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Software engineering (Re: Panther and Mail.app signatures.) In-Reply-To: <71011C03-1A41-11D8-A105-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> <71011C03-1A41-11D8-A105-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <6A944E36-1A4E-11D8-8A49-003065C4548E@mac.com> Having worked at and left Apple some time ago, I can tell you that most of the people on this list greatly underestimate the amount of enhancement requests Apple gets, internally and externally. Everyone of those requests is discussed. Which is pretty scary. They are also prioritized. Imagine every product manager as a rock star, all being mobbed by their groupies. That is what it is like. Most managers that manage developers, that I have met, feel that they are playing ironman football a man short. Cheers, Tom On Nov 18, 2003, at 7:35 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Nov 18, 2003, at 2:24 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > >>> More than 5 minutes and still not working quite right. Guess it was >>> a -tiny- bit more complicated. >> >> ? Not sure I follow you here.. It is more than Apple did. Does not >> look to complicated to me.. > > This is a common misperception. Something that seems simple at the > user interface level was not *necessarily* easy to implement. And the > way you visualize it working may not work for everyone else. > > It's reasonable to say you would like to see a particular feature in > Mail. But without having experience with large software projects, it's > unreasonable to make claims how long the feature would take to > implement, or how important your feature request is in contrast to > others. > > > Think of a software program as a city. It's easy enough to say "you > should put a traffic light at this intersection." It's much harder to > say exactly how that that traffic light will affect overall flow of > traffic throughout the city. Is it a major intersection? Is it packed > at commute time? Is it near the freeway? > > So imagine the Mail engineering team, trying to manage the placement > of traffic lights, parking garages, freeways, etc. They're trying to > keep millions of citizens happy, each with their own wants and needs. > And while you personally may want them to erect a traffic light right > then and there, they have to keep the big picture in mind, or the city > comes to a standstill. > > This is also why it's difficult for someone who doesn't work on the > project (even an engineer) to have a realistic idea about how long > something should take to implement. If you've never been to the city, > you don't know where the high-traffic areas are. > > >> Again, I have always said I was speaking out of school, but >> truncating email addresses to names in message windows and making the >> trash icon pretty, and changing compose to new is hardly what I >> would have called important.. > > It's unlikely the same people who write core functionality for Mail > are designing the icons. > > The biggest enhancement in Panther Mail appears to be raw speed. > > > (just waiting for Lewis to rail me about using metaphors :) > > - Scott > > -- > Tree House Ideas > http://treehouseideas.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From markm at tyrell.com Tue Nov 18 21:22:30 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters In-Reply-To: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: At 11:14 AM -0800 11/17/03, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: >So who's going to MacWorld SF, and would you be interested in some >kind of gathering - beer, coffee, dinner, whatever? Yes, absolutely Guinness, only in the morning but espresso after 112 oz of Guinness, only if with beer or wine, and only with women. ;) Not sure how long my wife and I will be at Expo this year.... we keep spending less and less time at Expo and more time in the wine country (Sonoma). But, if it fits in our schedule, I'm game. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kremels at kreme.com Tue Nov 18 21:54:01 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: References: <5B080988-1A1B-11D8-921B-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> <6E4D3885-1A24-11D8-A419-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <92104D2C-1A2D-11D8-A142-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <9F7C1590-1A54-11D8-A8E5-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 18 Nov 2003, at 20:39, Alex Fuller wrote: > I won't be installing ShapeShifter on my system, but I think Unsanity > deserve some credit for finding some natty tricks. I've had the APE thingy running on my system for quite a while now for ICeCofEE and I have to say the system appears to be as stable as ever. -- ...when you're no longer searching for beauty or love, just some kind of life with the edges taken off. When you can't even define what it is that you're frightened of; this song will be here. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031118/73cce633/smime.bin From sstevenson at mac.com Tue Nov 18 22:41:01 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 18, 2003, at 9:21 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > Not sure how long my wife and I will be at Expo this year.... we keep > spending less and less time at Expo and more time in the wine country > (Sonoma). I wonder if BaNG would be willing to hold an ad-hoc session... assuming some space is available? Regardless, it would be good to see how many talk/nutters people we can gather in one space, if only to try to create a tear in the fabric of reality or something. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From mmalc_lists at mac.com Tue Nov 18 23:04:06 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 18, 2003, at 10:40 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> Not sure how long my wife and I will be at Expo this year.... we keep >> spending less and less time at Expo and more time in the wine country >> (Sonoma). > I wonder if BaNG would be willing to hold an ad-hoc session... > assuming some space is available? > Probably -- it's also pretty much what I did for several years under the auspices of Stepwise. Depending on where any session is held, though, it can cost a *lot*. Sessions held in the Marriott typically cost a coupe of thousand dollars... mmalc From guy.english at sympatico.ca Tue Nov 18 23:24:03 2003 From: guy.english at sympatico.ca (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <5443FE00-1A61-11D8-A440-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Some thing really close to The Advanced Look and Feel shipped in Mac OS X Server 1.0. I remember you could change the colors of the window borders and text areas. Mine was blue and tan and I thought it looked quite handsome. There was no side bar, though, and the column view was pretty nerfed compated to what NeXT had. It had the icon path but not the tray. The tear of menus were cool and I'd like those back sometime. It also had the squared edges at the top of the screen - something I remember old school Mac heads getting their panties in a twist over. In fact I'm sure you can did up more "discussion" from this lists archives. Guy On Nov 17, 2003, at 5:20 AM, Matt wrote: > You know, something was very familiar about the Longhorn interface. I > couldn't quite put my finger on it until I remembered the old > "Advanced Look and Feel" documents that Apple used to have. I scoured > the net and found a couple of programs. > > http://www.nimug.org/img/ > > Anyway, you make up your own mind. > > > -- > Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From guy.english at sympatico.ca Tue Nov 18 23:33:01 2003 From: guy.english at sympatico.ca (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) Message-ID: <9462BF4A-1A62-11D8-A440-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Some thing really close to The Advanced Look and Feel shipped in Mac OS X Server 1.0. I remember you could change the colors of the window borders and text areas. Mine was blue and tan and I thought it looked quite handsome. There was no side bar, though, and the column view was pretty nerfed compated to what NeXT had. It had the icon path but not the tray. The tear of menus were cool and I'd like those back sometime. It also had the squared edges at the top of the screen - something I remember old school Mac heads getting their panties in a twist over. In fact I'm sure you can did up more "discussion" from this lists archives. Guy On Nov 17, 2003, at 5:20 AM, Matt wrote: > You know, something was very familiar about the Longhorn interface. I > couldn't quite put my finger on it until I remembered the old > "Advanced Look and Feel" documents that Apple used to have. I scoured > the net and found a couple of programs. > > http://www.nimug.org/img/ > > Anyway, you make up your own mind. > > > -- > Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From michaelm at opendarwin.org Wed Nov 19 00:09:03 2003 From: michaelm at opendarwin.org (Michael Maibaum) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: iChat history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 18, 2003, at 19:18, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > > On Nov 18, 2003, at 10:52 AM, Jes?s D?az wrote: > >> So I ended up at Jens Alfke's page today, from the story on Cricket >> at Slashdot: >> >> >> > > This is the funniest line: > > " > [Working with a bunch of Unix geeks -- who were all lovely people, I > hasten to add -- was like stepping back in time fifteen years, only > instead of people running 'csh' and 'vi' on a single VT220 terminal on > their desktop, they now had a nice 20" color monitor displaying six or > seven VT220s running 'csh' and 'vi'. This is progress?? Unix geeks are > the Amish of the computer world.] > " I've seen photos of an Apple engineer with a quad-head machine, all large LCDs, all filled with xterms, though I sincerely doubt they had csh shells :) Michael -- Michael Maibaum internet: mike@maibaum.org | http://mike.maibaum.org voice: [m] 07958 604025 | From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 19 00:14:01 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 18, 2003, at 11:03 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > Probably -- it's also pretty much what I did for several years under > the auspices of Stepwise. Depending on where any session is held, > though, it can cost a *lot*. Sessions held in the Marriott typically > cost a coupe of thousand dollars... I was thinking more along lines of same venue, different date. That's why I wasn't sure the space would be available -- particularly that week. - Scot -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 19 00:20:19 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:30 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: <5443FE00-1A61-11D8-A440-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <5443FE00-1A61-11D8-A440-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <76049318-1A68-11D8-B83C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 18, 2003, at 11:23 PM, Guy English wrote: > The tear of menus were cool and I'd like those back sometime. It also > had the squared edges at the top of the screen - something I remember > old school Mac heads getting their panties in a twist over. If I knew at some point, I forgot... What's the historical reason for the rounded corners? - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From mmalc_lists at mac.com Wed Nov 19 00:49:01 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 12:09 AM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > I was thinking more along lines of same venue, different date. That's > why I wasn't sure the space would be available -- particularly that > week. > Suggestions for venue would be welcome (from anyone) -- or did you (Scott) mean Town Hall? mmalc From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 19 02:21:06 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: <6E4D3885-1A24-11D8-A419-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> References: <5B080988-1A1B-11D8-921B-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> <6E4D3885-1A24-11D8-A419-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> Message-ID: On 19 Nov 2003, at 00:07, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > Well, it works quite nice so far. Heh, I even like it :-) But I doubt > people will pay $20 for a face lift. I know I won't unless I fall in > love with some theme. So far, not such a thing yet. People paid it for Kaleidoscope. > Matt will get the Halo theme, no doubt about it. Well, you can't be right every time. I don't theme. And I definitely don't haxie. From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 19 02:26:33 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: <76049318-1A68-11D8-B83C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <5443FE00-1A61-11D8-A440-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> <76049318-1A68-11D8-B83C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <820B94C6-1A7A-11D8-8A42-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 19 Nov 2003, at 08:14, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Nov 18, 2003, at 11:23 PM, Guy English wrote: > >> The tear of menus were cool and I'd like those back sometime. It also >> had the squared edges at the top of the screen - something I remember >> old school Mac heads getting their panties in a twist over. > > If I knew at some point, I forgot... > > What's the historical reason for the rounded corners? Lord only knows. I did get one switcher recently complaining about them because they aren't on Windows. He though he was missing out on some screen real estate. The logic dumbfounds me. From alexfuller at mac.com Wed Nov 19 02:35:49 2003 From: alexfuller at mac.com (Alex Fuller) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: <9B98F5B4-1A4C-11D8-B6F0-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <5B080988-1A1B-11D8-921B-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> <6E4D3885-1A24-11D8-A419-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <92104D2C-1A2D-11D8-A142-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9B98F5B4-1A4C-11D8-B6F0-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: On 19 Nov 2003, at 4:55 am, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Nov 18, 2003, at 7:39 PM, Alex Fuller wrote: > >> I don't see why this is suddenly an issue where it wasn't before with >> Kaleidoscope. > > What do you mean? It was huge issue with Kaleidoscope. Well I bet you didn't ask for this from Kaeidoscope (I'm not saying you don't think now it would be useful, I'm just saying that the reactions to these things have changed with the arrival of Mac OS X and I really doubt you asked for it back then): > I like the concept, but I wonder if someone from Unsanity could tell > us vaguely how this is implemented so administrators, tech support > staff, developers (not to mention people on this list) can determine > if they're going to have to field a fleet of tech support issues and > general harassment resulting from low-level hacks. Alex From jared at 23x.net Wed Nov 19 03:07:04 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Software engineering (Re: Panther and Mail.app signatures.) In-Reply-To: <71011C03-1A41-11D8-A105-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> <71011C03-1A41-11D8-A105-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031119115911.J8545@debaser.home> On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Scott Stevenson wrote: > (just waiting for Lewis to rail me about using metaphors :) No, that'd be me. -- jared@23x.net - http://jared.23x.net/ "There is no SPORK" From kremels at kreme.com Wed Nov 19 03:20:03 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Routing issues (Ethernet-802.11b-802.11g) Message-ID: I have a wireless 802.11g router with 4 ethernet ports in it. I have a Panther 800Mhz iMac (15"FP) (192.168.2.2) on airport (802.11b) I have an XP PC (192.168.2.100) on ethernet (100bT) I have a Jaguar G3 beige with a 10/100 ethernet card connected to a Wirless WAP (802.11g) The PC and the iMac see each other and can mount sharepoints (either way). I am even able to ftp from the PC to the iMac to transfer files (seems a tad faster than copying of mountpoints in the Finder...). The PC evens sees the iMacs iTunes share and plays songs fine. The iMac and the G3 can see each other fine as well, copy files, etc. The G3 sees the iMacs iTunes share as well. the PC and the G3 cannot see each other at all. The router on the G3: Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default 192.168.2.100 UGSc 9 4 en2 localhost localhost UH 10 4945 lo0 169.254 link#4 UCS 0 0 en2 192.168.2 link#4 UCS 5 0 en2 192.168.2.100 0:4:e2:7b:94:b8 UHLW 5 11 en2 1105 the 0:4:e2:7b:94:b8 is the LAN MAC address of the SMC 192.168.2.100 link#4 UHRLW 0 119 en2 192.168.2.101 localhost UHS 0 6 lo0 192.168.2.255 ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff UHLWb 2 7 en2 Internet6: Destination Gateway Flags Netif Expire UH lo0 fe80::%lo0 Uc lo0 link#1 UHL lo0 fe80::%en2 link#4 UC en2 0:0:94:c8:4c:cd UHL lo0 ff01:: U lo0 ff02::%lo0 UC lo0 ff02::%en2 link#4 UC en2 the Mac is seeing 192.168.2.100 as the gateway, which make no sense at all since that is the PC's address, and the PC is new to this LAN. SMC DHCP Client Log ip=192.168.2.100 mac=00-80-AD-01-D8-76 name=htpc ip=192.168.2.101 mac=00-00-94-C8-4C-CD name=G3 so the SMC is seeing the right IP from the G3 and the PC, but they can't see each other. but both see the iMac (it is using DHCP with a fixed IP to get .2 always, a setting that fails completely on the G3). the routing table on the iMac looks like this: Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default 192.168.2.100 UGSc 18 27 en1 127 localhost UCS 0 0 lo0 localhost localhost UH 17 90662 lo0 169.254 link#5 UCS 0 0 en1 192.168.2 link#5 UCS 4 0 en1 192.168.2.100 0:4:e2:7b:94:b8 UHLW 19 1981 en1 1047 192.168.2.2 localhost UHS 0 451 lo0 192.168.2.100 link#5 UHLW 1 3710026 en1 192.168.2.101 0:0:94:c8:4c:cd UHLW 1 31 en1 600 192.168.2.255 link#5 UHLWb 2 399 en1 Internet6: Destination Gateway Flags Netif Expire localhost localhost UH lo0 fe80::1%lo0 link#1 UHL lo0 fe80::%en1 link#5 UC en1 fe80::230:65ff:fe2 0:30:65:2c:dd:e9 UHL lo0 ff01:: localhost U lo0 ff02::%lo0 localhost UC lo0 ff02::%en1 link#5 UC en1 -- Hey, baby, I've got just the cure for that penis envy back at my apartment... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031119/e84361ab/smime.bin From rosyna at unsanity.com Wed Nov 19 03:27:01 2003 From: rosyna at unsanity.com (Rosyna) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: <9B98F5B4-1A4C-11D8-B6F0-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <5B080988-1A1B-11D8-921B-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> <6E4D3885-1A24-11D8-A419-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <92104D2C-1A2D-11D8-A142-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9B98F5B4-1A4C-11D8-B6F0-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: Conversely, there are a lot of people that blame APE when APE is not involved. A common issue before was themes. They'd use a Jaguar theme in panther, then when they updated to 10.3.1 or something and installed APE 1.4.1 at the same time, they'd reboot for the first time since installing the theme and then blame APE for causing the issue. When it is clearly not involved (APE cannot load in root applications or during the boot process). A lot of developers also blame APE. We do a lot to try to find the issue. Sometimes it is ours (Inteligo) and sometimes it isn't (Toast, PowerMail). Ack, at 11/18/03, Scott Stevenson said: >It's a very clever trick, and an impressive bit of engineering. My >concern is people who use the software don't necessarily understand >how a piece of software that mucks with things at the level that APE >does can cause problems; or like it so much that they don't want to >assign blame to it. This results in blaming instability on Mac OS X, >a particular application, a hard drive, etc. > >As we've seen, there are a lot of misperceptions from the general >public about how software works. -- Sincerely, Rosyna Keller Technical Support/Holy Knight/Always needs a hug Unsanity: Unsane Tools for Insanely Great People --- Please include any previous correspondence in replies, it helps me remember what we were talking about. Thanks. From rosyna at unsanity.com Wed Nov 19 03:32:09 2003 From: rosyna at unsanity.com (Rosyna) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: References: <20031118202838.GE1750@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: OS X asks for the theme. We tell it it's in a different location. The application loads it as if it was the default one. Granted ShapeShifter does a hell of a lot to make sure the theme is not corrupted and if it's a Jaguar theme it will update it for panther. Ack, at 11/18/03, Scott Stevenson said: >On Nov 18, 2003, at 12:28 PM, Eugene Lee wrote: > >>"ShapeShifter is a revolutionary new product that lets you change >>the overall appearance of your Mac using 'themes'" > >I like the concept, but I wonder if someone from Unsanity could tell >us vaguely how this is implemented so administrators, tech support >staff, developers (not to mention people on this list) can determine >if they're going to have to field a fleet of tech support issues and >general harassment resulting from low-level hacks. > >The aspect that's particularly concerning to me is that the gee-whiz >factor is going to attract a lot of non-technical people, not >realizing the potential implications of installing something like >this. > >Basically, I have serious doubts that something like this can be >implemented in a "good citizen" manner on Mac OS X, but I'm willing >to hear the other side of the story. > > >Here's one comment (http://homepage.mac.com/max_08/): > >> "This is no longer an issue with ShapeShifter. It does not >>touch any of your >> system files. It simply tells application to look for them elsewhere." > >Call me skeptical, but I don't think there's anything in the >standard APIs for intercepting requests for UI resources. -- Sincerely, Rosyna Keller Technical Support/Holy Knight/Always needs a hug Unsanity: Unsane Tools for Insanely Great People --- Please include any previous correspondence in replies, it helps me remember what we were talking about. Thanks. From rosyna at unsanity.com Wed Nov 19 03:38:09 2003 From: rosyna at unsanity.com (Rosyna) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: References: <5B080988-1A1B-11D8-921B-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> <6E4D3885-1A24-11D8-A419-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <92104D2C-1A2D-11D8-A142-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: The goal is to have all of the good of Kaleidoscope with none of the bad (namely, the slow speed). Run Let 1k Windows Bloom from http://www.vgg.com/rob/WindowsBloom.html with and without ShapeShifter installed. You should see no speed hit. You might see a speed difference of 500 milliseconds (positive or negetive) but you can ignore that as it's just normal... Ack, at 11/19/03, Alex Fuller said: >I don't see why this is suddenly an issue where it wasn't before >with Kaleidoscope. It's up to the user what they run and what risks >they take, and the possibility of software like Kaleidoscope causing >an extension conflict on OS 9 was just as high if not higher. -- Sincerely, Rosyna Keller Technical Support/Holy Knight/Always needs a hug Unsanity: Unsane Tools for Insanely Great People --- Please include any previous correspondence in replies, it helps me remember what we were talking about. Thanks. From markm at tyrell.com Wed Nov 19 06:44:27 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Hardware System Pref In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Have I just been out of it!? When did the "Hardware" System Pref located in "Other" show up!? I can turn the L2 Cache on or off (it was off, what's up with that?). There's a setting called "Power: Nap"? The title is "PowerPC (null) v0.0 (tech 0)". Is this a Panther thing... an XCode thing... has it been there all along and I just never noticed it (I don't think so). Any enlightenment would be appreciated. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 19 06:57:00 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Hardware System Pref In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9BBEEB7E-1AA0-11D8-8A42-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 19 Nov 2003, at 14:40, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > Have I just been out of it!? > When did the "Hardware" System Pref located in "Other" show up!? > I can turn the L2 Cache on or off (it was off, what's up with that?). > There's a setting called "Power: Nap"? > The title is "PowerPC (null) v0.0 (tech 0)". > Is this a Panther thing... an XCode thing... has it been there all > along and I just never noticed it (I don't think so). > Any enlightenment would be appreciated. Is it just me or has this thread been on here 3 times now? You installed the CHUD tools, didn't you? From bahi at macnet.co.uk Wed Nov 19 07:05:16 2003 From: bahi at macnet.co.uk (Bahi) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Hardware System Pref In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 06:40 -0800 19/11/03, Mark F. Murphy wrote: >Have I just been out of it!? > >When did the "Hardware" System Pref located in "Other" show up!? > >I can turn the L2 Cache on or off (it was off, what's up with that?). It's a Developer Tools thing. (The latest vrsn of CHUD.) From joar at joar.com Wed Nov 19 07:16:25 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Hardware System Pref In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41039D02-1AA2-11D8-BCFF-000393ADAEE6@joar.com> It's installed as part of the CHUD tools, that is an optional install with the development tools. j o a r On 2003-11-19, at 15.40, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > Have I just been out of it!? > > When did the "Hardware" System Pref located in "Other" show up!? > > I can turn the L2 Cache on or off (it was off, what's up with that?). > > There's a setting called "Power: Nap"? > > The title is "PowerPC (null) v0.0 (tech 0)". > > Is this a Panther thing... an XCode thing... has it been there all > along and I just never noticed it (I don't think so). > > Any enlightenment would be appreciated. From list at stevenshand.com Wed Nov 19 07:21:44 2003 From: list at stevenshand.com (Steven Shand) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Hardware System Pref In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8AB208BD-1AA2-11D8-A391-000A95A66E7A@stevenshand.com> On 19 Nov 2003, at 14:40, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > Have I just been out of it!? You tell us! > When did the "Hardware" System Pref located in "Other" show up!? When you installed the dev tools. > I can turn the L2 Cache on or off (it was off, what's up with that?). dunno. > There's a setting called "Power: Nap"? > > The title is "PowerPC (null) v0.0 (tech 0)". dunno either. From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 19 07:44:03 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Free Upgrades for G5 optimised Pro software Message-ID: Of course I now have an annoyed customer who doesn't have broadband who can't get me to download the update because it needs a serial number for the DOWNLOAD and not just for running the update itself which means I can't just burn it to CD for him and deliver it when I'm popping out there anyway. Thanks Apple. -- The boy stood on the burning deck/ Whence all but he had fled/ Twit - Spike Milligan -- From joar at joar.com Wed Nov 19 07:56:01 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Free Upgrades for G5 optimised Pro software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93B28320-1AA8-11D8-ACAE-000393ADAEE6@joar.com> So, your customers doesn't trust you with their serial numbers? What did you do to deserve that? ;) j o a r On 2003-11-19, at 16.40, Matt wrote: > Of course I now have an annoyed customer who doesn't have broadband > who can't get me to download the update because it needs a serial > number for the DOWNLOAD and not just for running the update itself > which means I can't just burn it to CD for him and deliver it when I'm > popping out there anyway. From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 19 08:14:05 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Free Upgrades for G5 optimised Pro software In-Reply-To: <93B28320-1AA8-11D8-ACAE-000393ADAEE6@joar.com> References: <93B28320-1AA8-11D8-ACAE-000393ADAEE6@joar.com> Message-ID: <8D5A625C-1AA9-11D8-8A42-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 19 Nov 2003, at 15:53, j o a r wrote: > So, your customers doesn't trust you with their serial numbers? > What did you do to deserve that? ;) You're a funny guy. Now...is the installer the same for ALL downloads or do I need to enter it every time for every FCP4 customer I have? Stupid Apple. -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From alexfuller at mac.com Wed Nov 19 08:20:49 2003 From: alexfuller at mac.com (Alex Fuller) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Free Upgrades for G5 optimised Pro software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B22D43-1AAB-11D8-AC1F-000393DB5348@mac.com> Why can't they email you their serial number for you to type into the box for the download? Alex On 19 Nov 2003, at 3:40 pm, Matt wrote: > > Of course I now have an annoyed customer who doesn't have broadband > who can't get me to download the update because it needs a serial > number for the DOWNLOAD and not just for running the update itself > which means I can't just burn it to CD for him and deliver it when I'm > popping out there anyway. > > Thanks Apple. > > From cjacobs at mac.com Wed Nov 19 08:39:40 2003 From: cjacobs at mac.com (Charles Jacobs) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: <820B94C6-1A7A-11D8-8A42-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <5443FE00-1A61-11D8-A440-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> <76049318-1A68-11D8-B83C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <820B94C6-1A7A-11D8-8A42-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <361D8474-1AAD-11D8-BDE8-000393C6D052@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 2:24 AM, Matt wrote: > > On 19 Nov 2003, at 08:14, Scott Stevenson wrote: > >> >> On Nov 18, 2003, at 11:23 PM, Guy English wrote: >> >>> The tear of menus were cool and I'd like those back sometime. It >>> also had the squared edges at the top of the screen - something I >>> remember old school Mac heads getting their panties in a twist over. >> >> If I knew at some point, I forgot... >> >> What's the historical reason for the rounded corners? > > Lord only knows. I did get one switcher recently complaining about > them because they aren't on Windows. He though he was missing out on > some screen real estate. The logic dumbfounds me. > I always assumed they were meant to match the rounded bevel around the original mac screen. And yes, my panties got a bit twisted on that matter. :) It just looks somehow friendlier with the rounded corners, in my eyes. --chuck From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 19 08:48:47 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Free Upgrades for G5 optimised Pro software In-Reply-To: <42B22D43-1AAB-11D8-AC1F-000393DB5348@mac.com> References: <42B22D43-1AAB-11D8-AC1F-000393DB5348@mac.com> Message-ID: <3829FC88-1AAE-11D8-8A42-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 19 Nov 2003, at 16:13, Alex Fuller wrote: > Why can't they email you their serial number for you to type into the > box for the download? Alex, If it was that simple then wouldn't it be done. M -- Isaac Newton understood the impact of the Apple. From surajrai at mac.com Wed Nov 19 08:51:28 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Bill Joy on G5s and OS X Message-ID: <2D0553FF-1AAF-11D8-A4A9-000A95A50218@mac.com> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.12/billjoy.html?tw=wn_tophead_3 S.r. From shawnce at mac.com Wed Nov 19 09:06:10 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Free Upgrades for G5 optimised Pro software In-Reply-To: <8D5A625C-1AA9-11D8-8A42-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <93B28320-1AA8-11D8-ACAE-000393ADAEE6@joar.com> <8D5A625C-1AA9-11D8-8A42-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <65B5F995-1AB1-11D8-A210-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 8:00 AM, Matt wrote: > > On 19 Nov 2003, at 15:53, j o a r wrote: > >> So, your customers doesn't trust you with their serial numbers? >> What did you do to deserve that? ;) > > You're a funny guy. > > Now...is the installer the same for ALL downloads or do I need to > enter it every time for every FCP4 customer I have? It is very very likely the same regardless of what you type into the webpage. They simply are trying to control and track serial number in the wild via the download website. -Shaw From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Wed Nov 19 09:19:01 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Bill Joy on G5s and OS X In-Reply-To: <2D0553FF-1AAF-11D8-A4A9-000A95A50218@mac.com> References: <2D0553FF-1AAF-11D8-A4A9-000A95A50218@mac.com> Message-ID: <75EC491D-1AB2-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 11:41 AM, Suraj Rai wrote: > http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.12/billjoy.html?tw=wn_tophead_3 > Well, now that's Gosling and Joy on board. Who's next? Maybe they can do a Switch add for the Slashdot crowd. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 393 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031119/9f43d730/attachment.bin From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Wed Nov 19 09:20:04 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 19, 2003, at 1:40 AM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > ...if only to try to create a tear in the fabric of reality or > something. > Dent in the universe? -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 311 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031119/3a88fc61/attachment.bin From ehrich at mninter.net Wed Nov 19 09:26:12 2003 From: ehrich at mninter.net (William Ehrich) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Macromedia flash Message-ID: Using Safari to read a cnet article "AT&T patents anti-antispam technology" I tried to stop the nasty animated intel ad and explored what comes up when I right-click on it. The contextual menu has entries for Play and Loop, but they don't work. The entry for Show All is checked and cannot be unchecked. There is a settings entry which allows you to deny st.dmt.com "access to your camera and microphone". Under Advanced there are a lot more choices for the access that you will deny. Maybe they work or maybe they are dummies, like the menu options. stopADVbanner.css blocks the ad site effectively, but since it's a black list it won't stop others. Safari Block Filtered Content doesn't seem to do anything. What is it supposed to do? I'm delighted that Pith Helmet now works again for animated .gifs. I hope they can stop Flash etc soon. -- Bill Ehrich From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Nov 19 09:27:23 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: <9B98F5B4-1A4C-11D8-B6F0-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <5B080988-1A1B-11D8-921B-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> <6E4D3885-1A24-11D8-A419-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <92104D2C-1A2D-11D8-A142-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9B98F5B4-1A4C-11D8-B6F0-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031118, 20:55 -0800, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: >On Nov 18, 2003, at 7:39 PM, Alex Fuller wrote: >>Besides, Mac OS X is used in homes too and this software is clearly >>the sort of thing which will typically appeal to the home user. > >But it's the home user that seeks technical support from Apple, >support forms/mailing lists, etc. > >I don't think Unsanity is bad for making it, I just have concerns >about people thinking of it as normal Mac OS X application, which it >does not appear to be. APE doesn't use the APIs in only recommended >ways, does it? i think there is a lot of software in the "seems normal but isn't" category.. the APE family is one type, but then you have Norton (which surely must cause more calls to Apple Support), and lots of vendors installing kexts ... i don't think it's necessary to draw a line against or in any way activate against Unsanity's creativity.. Apple creates problems for other developers too, so i tend to think small developers should have *more* leeway than Apple (which has the private APIs at its disposal, after all) one can also view it as market philosophy: if it's okay for Apple to assimilate small developers' niches, should it not be okay for small developers to find ways to assimilate Apple's niches despite obstacles created by Apple? -- steve harley From rogerhoward at mac.com Wed Nov 19 09:37:07 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Macromedia flash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wednesday, November 19, 2003, at 09:09 AM, William Ehrich wrote: > Using Safari to read a cnet article "AT&T patents anti-antispam > technology" > > I tried to stop the nasty animated intel ad and explored what comes up > when I right-click on it. > > The contextual menu has entries for Play and Loop, but they don't work. > > The entry for Show All is checked and cannot be unchecked. Some of these are controllable by the content author - or they can leave it to the user (looping, for instance, isn't relevant to all Flash content). > There is a settings entry which allows you to deny st.dmt.com "access > to your camera and microphone". Yeah, this is a feature introduced with Flash 6, and barely used that I can tell... I think overall this feature is off by default, and you can enable it then block by domain. > Under Advanced there are a lot more choices for the access that you > will deny. > Maybe they work or maybe they are dummies, like the menu options. They aren't really dummies... they are just sometimes unavailable depending on authoring decisions. > stopADVbanner.css blocks the ad site effectively, but since it's a > black list it won't stop others. > > Safari Block Filtered Content doesn't seem to do anything. What is it > supposed to do? > > I'm delighted that Pith Helmet now works again for animated .gifs. I > hope they can stop Flash etc soon. Couldn't you do this via a Squid proxy for instance? -R From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Wed Nov 19 09:51:04 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Free Upgrades for G5 optimised Pro software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Of course I now have an annoyed customer who doesn't have broadband > who can't get me to download the update because it needs a serial > number for the DOWNLOAD and not just for running the update itself > which means I can't just burn it to CD for him and deliver it when I'm > popping out there anyway. > > Thanks Apple. As we are readying our book on Panther, this is even more painful. That DVD is screaming for these updates. Policy for Apple is not to distribute updates, only through the web. As you said, not everyone has broadband. It sucks. Big time. j. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Wed Nov 19 10:00:06 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Bill Joy on G5s and OS X In-Reply-To: <75EC491D-1AB2-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <2D0553FF-1AAF-11D8-A4A9-000A95A50218@mac.com> <75EC491D-1AB2-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <4A5CEFCE-1AB9-11D8-A8FE-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> > Wired: And yet you've been famously cool about Linux. > Joy: Re-implementing what I designed in 1979 is not interesting to me > personally. For kids who are 20 years younger than me, Linux is a > great way to cut your teeth. It's a cultural phenomenon and a business > phenomenon. Mac OS X is a rock-solid system that's beautifully > designed. I much prefer it to Linux. Aaah... j. From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Nov 19 10:29:01 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Software engineering (Re: Panther and Mail.app signatures.) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031118, 23:26 -0500, they whom i call James Witte wrote: > Ever heard of the Fluency project? [...] fascinating and *extremely* relevant material, Jim.. it will take a while to digest.. thanks for pointing it out -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Nov 19 10:34:03 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Software engineering (Re: Panther and Mail.app signatures.) In-Reply-To: <71011C03-1A41-11D8-A105-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> <71011C03-1A41-11D8-A105-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031118, 19:35 -0800, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: >It's reasonable to say you would like to see a particular feature in >Mail. But without having experience with large software projects, >it's unreasonable to make claims how long the feature would take to >implement, or how important your feature request is in contrast to >others. marketing is a major complication.. practical features often take a back seat to "pop" features, features that are not necessarily even that popular, but that someone thinks will "sell".. that's the reality of it.. Apple does a fairly good job of navigating the pop morass.. it can *sometimes* make good concepts and even ground-breaking ideas popular and salable ("ease of use", as an example, with accompanying pitfalls), but it's still an obstacle to some kinds of deep software progress >Think of a software program as a city. It's easy enough to say "you >should put a traffic light at this intersection." It's much harder >to say exactly how that that traffic light will affect overall flow >of traffic throughout the city. Is it a major intersection? Is it >packed at commute time? Is it near the freeway? > >So imagine the Mail engineering team, trying to manage the placement >of traffic lights, parking garages, freeways, etc. They're trying to >keep millions of citizens happy, each with their own wants and >needs. And while you personally may want them to erect a traffic >light right then and there, they have to keep the big picture in >mind, or the city comes to a standstill. as someone involved with planning issues in a large city, i feel the above metaphor gives a very incomplete impression imo, the best planning results come from an evolving community "conversation" which percolates upward, rather than downward.. there is admittedly no perfect model for this, however a focus on a narrow goal of moving cars quickly, for instance, which is the central aim of most traffic engineers, is a good way to ruin neighborhoods, encourage sprawl and discourage mass transit use.. making central planners aware of local conditions and/or the "real" big picture is often a lost cause.. many cities have begun to recognize this problem and to "reengineer" the planning process one might say that for city planning, a "plug-in" approach can be used -- build a very good framework and assist the neighborhoods to plug in their custom solutions.. it's also a good idea not to build structures which are prone to "gridlock" -- in other words, design flexibility into city systems so that a problem in one area simply _cannot_ bring the whole city to a standstill hopefully the extrapolation to software development is obvious -- steve harley From markm at tyrell.com Wed Nov 19 10:54:08 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: iChat history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:08 PM -0600 11/18/03, Matt Elliott wrote: >Buddy groups. Open the buddy list. notice in the top center is a popup >list that usually is set to All Groups. That's buddy groups. You have to "show groups" in the View Menu first before seeing it. I didn't know it was there either until now. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Nov 19 11:59:32 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: <76049318-1A68-11D8-B83C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <5443FE00-1A61-11D8-A440-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> <76049318-1A68-11D8-B83C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: at 20031119, 00:14 -0800, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: >What's the historical reason for the rounded corners? a Modernist design motif -- steve harley From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 19 12:18:15 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 19, 2003, at 12:48 AM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > Suggestions for venue would be welcome (from anyone) -- or did you > (Scott) mean Town Hall? I was originally thinking town hall, yes. Probably be easier to recruit a speaker there? Maybe we could resort to a restaurant if all else fails. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 19 12:28:21 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Software engineering (Re: Panther and Mail.app signatures.) In-Reply-To: References: <4837C77F-0E66-11D8-AEDB-000A95913626@n9yty.com> <8215B811-0E74-11D8-B685-000393907950@mia.net> <586BD30E-1948-11D8-AAB3-000393907950@mia.net> <71011C03-1A41-11D8-A105-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <56044202-1ACC-11D8-ACE0-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 10:15 AM, steve harley wrote: > imo, the best planning results come from an evolving > community "conversation" which percolates upward, rather > than downward.. This does appear to be the way it works for software too. > however a focus on a narrow goal of moving cars > quickly, for instance, which is the central aim of most > traffic engineers, is a good way to ruin neighborhoods I just chose a quick/specific example for simplicity. > it's also a good idea not to build structures which are prone to > "gridlock" -- in other words, design flexibility into city > systems so that a problem in one area simply _cannot_ bring > the whole city to a standstill Of course, that's the ideal. But gridlock still does happen, just like in software. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From kremels at kreme.com Wed Nov 19 12:51:57 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Hardware System Pref In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 19 Nov 2003, at 07:40, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > When did the "Hardware" System Pref located in "Other" show up!? After you installed CHUD -- Though it's cold and lonely in the deep dark night I can see paradise by the dashboard light. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031119/5ae54864/smime.bin From mmalc_lists at mac.com Wed Nov 19 13:03:10 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 11:58 AM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> Suggestions for venue would be welcome (from anyone) -- or did you >> (Scott) mean Town Hall? > I was originally thinking town hall, yes. Probably be easier to > recruit a speaker there? > I'm not sure it makes a *lot* of difference for getting speakers, but for attendees there's a considerable difference. It's a non-trivial trip from downtown San Francisco to Infinite Loop. Although I'm sure some would be happy to make the pilgrimage, I'm not sure how practical it really is? Others' opinions welcome. mmalc From kremels at kreme.com Wed Nov 19 13:12:43 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: References: <5B080988-1A1B-11D8-921B-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> <6E4D3885-1A24-11D8-A419-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <92104D2C-1A2D-11D8-A142-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: On 19 Nov 2003, at 04:31, Rosyna wrote: > The goal is to have all of the good of Kaleidoscope with none of the > bad (namely, the slow speed). Installed it (figured what the hell, I'm already consigned to APE for ICeCofEE) and looked at the themes. BBX Mercury X I like, except the slider thumb is black and the scrollbar is white/grey which is odd. The default installed Eylo theme thing though, easily one of the ugliest themse I've ever seen. If this is what Halo looks like I'm kinda glad it's never<1> coming to the Mac. <1> Never being any time after which a Mac release is completely irrelevant. Like after Halo 2 comes out. -- BUGS: There is no conversion specification for the phase of the moon." strftime(3) man page -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031119/32206d9d/smime.bin From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 19 13:15:37 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Hardware System Pref In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 19, 2003, at 9:40 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > > Have I just been out of it!? > > When did the "Hardware" System Pref located in "Other" show up!? > > I can turn the L2 Cache on or off (it was off, what's up with that?). > > There's a setting called "Power: Nap"? > > The title is "PowerPC (null) v0.0 (tech 0)". > > Is this a Panther thing... an XCode thing... has it been there all > along and I just never noticed it (I don't think so). > > Any enlightenment would be appreciated. > It is part of the new developer's tools on the xcode tools CD. --Larry From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 19 13:29:30 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 12:45 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > I'm not sure it makes a *lot* of difference for getting speakers, but > for attendees there's a considerable difference. It's a non-trivial > trip from downtown San Francisco to Infinite Loop. Although I'm sure > some would be happy to make the pilgrimage, I'm not sure how practical > it really is? Others' opinions welcome. If it was any other location, I'd agree. But I wonder if people might make an exception in this case. If nothing else, it's excuse to see the Apple Campus from the inside. If you've spent the money to fly to and stay in San Francisco, a 45 minute cab ride may be worth it. I could be misjudging the interest -- just sort of thinking out loud. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 19 13:33:27 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? Message-ID: Saw this article: http://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml? tid=2&tid=82&tid=85&tid=94 Interesting, I am no lawyer, but how can they challenge a lawsuit settlement from nine years ago? --Larry From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 19 13:54:27 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C3B4ABA-1ADA-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 1:25 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > http://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml? > tid=2&tid=82&tid=85&tid=94 > > Interesting, I am no lawyer, but how can they challenge a lawsuit > settlement from nine years ago? I just can't see how this is going to work in their favor. It makes them look more desperate. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From mmalc_lists at mac.com Wed Nov 19 14:14:17 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <63B6D57E-1ADB-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 1:07 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > If it was any other location, I'd agree. But I wonder if people might > make an exception in this case. If nothing else, it's excuse to see > the Apple Campus from the inside. If you've spent the money to fly to > and stay in San Francisco, a 45 minute cab ride may be worth it. I > could be misjudging the interest -- just sort of thinking out loud. > Oh, understood. I hope you didn't think I was being too dismissive -- I am genuinely interested in others' views. If there's a reasonable level of interest, I may be able to organise it. Just to put things in perspective, though, the 45 minute taxi ride will probably cost around $100! (As I found out a couple of years ago...) CalTrain might be a better, if less flexible, alternative. And for "seeing the campus from the inside", there's not much you can see or get to from Town Hall. You can catch a glimpse of the "quad"... mmalc From rogerhoward at mac.com Wed Nov 19 14:20:17 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <396B0380-1ADC-11D8-B9FD-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> On Wednesday, November 19, 2003, at 01:07 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Nov 19, 2003, at 12:45 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > >> I'm not sure it makes a *lot* of difference for getting speakers, but >> for attendees there's a considerable difference. It's a non-trivial >> trip from downtown San Francisco to Infinite Loop. Although I'm sure >> some would be happy to make the pilgrimage, I'm not sure how >> practical it really is? Others' opinions welcome. > > If it was any other location, I'd agree. But I wonder if people might > make an exception in this case. If nothing else, it's excuse to see > the Apple Campus from the inside. If you've spent the money to fly to > and stay in San Francisco, a 45 minute cab ride may be worth it. I > could be misjudging the interest -- just sort of thinking out loud. Hey, I'll come - I have great pics of Julia pole-dancing on the Infinite Loop street sign a few MacWorld's ago... it's an easy drive, and a few of you can even pile in my bubblecar if you dare. -R From mmalc_lists at mac.com Wed Nov 19 14:23:23 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <63B6D57E-1ADB-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <63B6D57E-1ADB-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 19, 2003, at 1:57 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > Just to put things in perspective, though, the 45 minute taxi ride > will probably cost around $100! I forgot to mention: and it will take about an hour and a half :-) I'm not quite sure what my record is, but anything under an hour is usually considered "good". (Modulo traffic etc.) mmalc From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 19 14:28:57 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: <9C3B4ABA-1ADA-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <9C3B4ABA-1ADA-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 19, 2003, at 4:52 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Nov 19, 2003, at 1:25 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > >> http://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml? >> tid=2&tid=82&tid=85&tid=94 >> >> Interesting, I am no lawyer, but how can they challenge a lawsuit >> settlement from nine years ago? > > I just can't see how this is going to work in their favor. It makes > them look more desperate. > Same here, the Linux stuff at least seemed plausible until the day in court. But going after a settled lawsuit that is nine years old seems like they are going after whatever they can. Now if they were going to try and use it as a precedent i would understand but trying to sue on the same grounds again? There is no way they can prove breach as there is no original code left in any of the current BSD's, it was only like 24 lines that needed removal iirc. --Larry From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 19 14:31:25 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: mail text encodings, mime encodings, base64, 8but, 7bit, etc. Message-ID: <523EE61F-1ADC-11D8-97BD-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Hi My wife's sister is in Japan and sends email (in Japanese) using M$ OE 4.5 on OS 8 or OS 9 or something like that. Her mails always came as X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit and we could read it fine. Recently, is started coming as X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to base64 by dsmtp11.dion.ne.jp id MAA03109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 And we cannot read it and changing the text encoding manually in Mail.app does not help. Can anyone who better understands these issues give me a clue on what is going on? It looks like her ISP started changing things but also that her mailer started changing from 7bit to 8bit. I am sure she did not knowingly make a change, since she does not really understand what is going on with her computer, but it is possible she could have screwed some setting up. I don't have an OS 9 box any more and don't have M$ OE 4.5 to check in. Any clues? Thanks Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 19 14:33:13 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <5443FE00-1A61-11D8-A440-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> <76049318-1A68-11D8-B83C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <88AA6B4B-1ADC-11D8-97BD-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 12:56 PM, steve harley wrote: > at 20031119, 00:14 -0800, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: >> What's the historical reason for the rounded corners? > > a Modernist design motif > It also goes back to the original 128k Mac and probably looked better with the CRT screen in the Mac. The CRT glass was (is) rounded in the corner... Chad From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 19 14:34:02 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: References: <5B080988-1A1B-11D8-921B-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> <6E4D3885-1A24-11D8-A419-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> <92104D2C-1A2D-11D8-A142-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9B98F5B4-1A4C-11D8-B6F0-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <94AE2264-1ADC-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 8:51 AM, steve harley wrote: > one can also view it as market philosophy: if it's okay for > Apple to assimilate small developers' niches, should it not > be okay for small developers to find ways to assimilate > Apple's niches despite obstacles created by Apple? There are two issues here. 1. Fill in gaps that Apple left 2. Do it in a way that's unsupported or not recommended by the OS/frameworks I have no problem whatsoever with 1, it's 2 that's the issue. If people who know the risks want to do it, that's their deal. But APE utilities can cause problems for people that don't know any better. It is good that Unsanity wants to work with developers to resolve specific issue, but I think that's an issue of treating the symptoms rather than the affliction. If nothing else, it works against the Mac OS X philosophy of loosely coupled designed so that application code can work seamlessly in an environment or scenario that didn't exist when it was designed. Again, just my opinion. I also don't have access to APE code, so I could be making incorrect assumptions about how it actually works. I'm mainly going by high-level descriptions from Rosyna and user experiences. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 19 14:49:44 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: R.I.P. Kaleidoscope, long live ShapeShifter? In-Reply-To: References: <20031118202838.GE1750@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: On Nov 19, 2003, at 3:28 AM, Rosyna wrote: > OS X asks for the theme. We tell it it's in a different location. The > application loads it as if it was the default one. Granted > ShapeShifter does a hell of a lot to make sure the theme is not > corrupted and if it's a Jaguar theme it will update it for panther. I guess my real concern, then, is with APE itself: http://www.unsanity.com/haxies/ape/ "...combination of a Framework [....] and a system daemon. Application Enhancer performs its task by loading plugins [...] containing executable code into the running applications. Once loaded, the APE module performs the needed modifications (such as redefining the minimize window action, or customizing the standard Apple menu) on the launched application memory space" This approach just seems like asking for trouble to me. Not I have another way to do it, mind you. :) It seems like it's more in the spirit of Mac OS 7/8/9's traps (which were troublesome for stability) than modern Mac OS X software design. I'm not saying it's the only way to cause instability, and I'm sure APE gets blamed for things it doesn't do, but I just don't think it's a particularly safe design. Once again, just my opinion. I don't have access to APE's source. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Wed Nov 19 14:56:35 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: References: <9C3B4ABA-1ADA-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <9ADF43C4-1AE1-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 5:14 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > There is no way they can prove breach as there is no original code > left in any of the current BSD's, it was only like 24 lines that > needed removal iirc. > Actually, I believe AT&T actually had included a significant amount of code from BSD, which has a lot to do with why they settled in the first place. Also, how does a court throw out a negotiated settlement that both parties consented to? Darl McBride has become the Iraqi information minister. -jimbo "Cocoa, Apple's insanely cool object-oriented application frameworks ... which so totally kicks black-clad Ninja ass over all other GUI frameworks I've used that it isn't even funny." -Jens Alfke From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Wed Nov 19 15:08:34 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <63B6D57E-1ADB-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <63B6D57E-1ADB-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <92B336EF-1AE2-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 4:57 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > And for "seeing the campus from the inside", there's not much you can > see or get to from Town Hall. Ok, I give up. What's "Town Hall"? I spent two weeks in Cupertino for training (you popped into one of my classes, actually), ate at the cafeteria regularly (I was a badge holder at the time), but I still don't know what Town Hall is. Please relieve my un-cluedness :(. -jimbo "Cocoa, Apple's insanely cool object-oriented application frameworks ... which so totally kicks black-clad Ninja ass over all other GUI frameworks I've used that it isn't even funny." -Jens Alfke From mmalc_lists at mac.com Wed Nov 19 15:22:45 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <92B336EF-1AE2-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <63B6D57E-1ADB-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <92B336EF-1AE2-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <3E8063EB-1AE3-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 2:49 PM, Jim Rankin wrote: >> And for "seeing the campus from the inside", there's not much you can >> see or get to from Town Hall. > Ok, I give up. What's "Town Hall"? > Sorry, Apple's Campus "Town Hall" in Building 4, where various company meetings and presentations are held. And, often, BANG meetings. On the subject of which, sorry, I there will not be one this evening (and I'm off on holiday tonight anyway). > I spent two weeks in Cupertino for training (you popped into one of my > classes, actually), Oh, which one?! mmalc From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 19 15:38:26 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: <9ADF43C4-1AE1-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <9C3B4ABA-1ADA-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9ADF43C4-1AE1-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <25E24FAC-1AE8-11D8-BEA3-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 19 Nov 2003, at 22:42, Jim Rankin wrote: > On Nov 19, 2003, at 5:14 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > >> There is no way they can prove breach as there is no original code >> left in any of the current BSD's, it was only like 24 lines that >> needed removal iirc. > Actually, I believe AT&T actually had included a significant amount of > code from BSD, which has a lot to do with why they settled in the > first place. > Also, how does a court throw out a negotiated settlement that both > parties consented to? > Darl McBride has become . I really was hoping it wouldn't come to this. You know that they'll just keep piling the lawsuits on because that's the way the system works. SCO learned from the masters - if you lose, appeal, appeal, appeal until the money runs out. How much of the Office vX license costs are going to fund the SCO War Effort? Anyone want to make an estimate? M From chad at objectwerks.com Wed Nov 19 15:44:58 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <92B336EF-1AE2-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <63B6D57E-1ADB-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <92B336EF-1AE2-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <29EB1245-1AE8-11D8-97BD-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 3:49 PM, Jim Rankin wrote: > > On Nov 19, 2003, at 4:57 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > >> And for "seeing the campus from the inside", there's not much you can >> see or get to from Town Hall. > > Ok, I give up. What's "Town Hall"? > > I spent two weeks in Cupertino for training (you popped into one of my > classes, actually), ate at the cafeteria regularly (I was a badge > holder at the time), but I still don't know what Town Hall is. > > Please relieve my un-cluedness :(. > i've only been there (Town Hall I think) once but I think it is the big auditorium at one of the entrances. I was there in 94 at the first ever Part Hut for OpenDoc. Chad From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 19 15:48:16 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91EA6001-1AE8-11D8-BEA3-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 19 Nov 2003, at 21:25, Lawrence Sica wrote: > Saw this article: > > http://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/1742216.shtml? > tid=2&tid=82&tid=85&tid=94 > > Interesting, I am no lawyer, but how can they challenge a lawsuit > settlement from nine years ago? I don't believe they will. I believe they will claim that code from AIX and other licensed UNIXen has, since the settlement, contaminated the BSD code tree. M -- Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Wed Nov 19 15:51:30 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <3E8063EB-1AE3-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <63B6D57E-1ADB-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <92B336EF-1AE2-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <3E8063EB-1AE3-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <16B2E1D0-1AE9-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 5:53 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >> I spent two weeks in Cupertino for training (you popped into one of >> my classes, actually), > > Oh, which one?! > One of the early Cocoa development classes; September 2000 timeframe, I think. I remember the class instructor was talking to you on the sidewalk and introduced us, at which point I said something like "Oh yeah, the guy from all the developer lists!" Heh, one of my first brushes with Cocoa celebrity :). -jimbo "Cocoa, Apple's insanely cool object-oriented application frameworks ... which so totally kicks black-clad Ninja ass over all other GUI frameworks I've used that it isn't even funny." -Jens Alfke From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 19 15:58:43 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: <9ADF43C4-1AE1-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <9C3B4ABA-1ADA-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9ADF43C4-1AE1-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <0A42F595-1AE9-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 5:42 PM, Jim Rankin wrote: > > On Nov 19, 2003, at 5:14 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > >> There is no way they can prove breach as there is no original code >> left in any of the current BSD's, it was only like 24 lines that >> needed removal iirc. >> > Actually, I believe AT&T actually had included a significant amount of > code from BSD, which has a lot to do with why they settled in the > first place. > I am going by FreeBSD specifically. By the time of the settlement there were about 24 lines of original BSD code left. --Larry From rogerhoward at mac.com Wed Nov 19 16:10:29 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: <91EA6001-1AE8-11D8-BEA3-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <2F83727A-1AEC-11D8-A91C-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> On Wednesday, November 19, 2003, at 03:31 PM, Matt wrote: > > On 19 Nov 2003, at 21:25, Lawrence Sica wrote: > >> Saw this article: >> >> http://www.newsforge.com/business/03/11/18/ >> 1742216.shtml?tid=2&tid=82&tid=85&tid=94 >> >> Interesting, I am no lawyer, but how can they challenge a lawsuit >> settlement from nine years ago? > > I don't believe they will. > > I believe they will claim that code from AIX and other licensed UNIXen > has, since the settlement, contaminated the BSD code tree. They will claim that and many other things. Many of their claims have been contradictory, or at least mutually insane. It started as a contract dispute... Then there's the mysterious copied code... now up to 25% of the Linux kernet (love Linux or not, that is complete bullshit and everyone knows it). Then more recently, grander claims that third-parties could not have achieved technical parity without SCO property, either in the form of tangible code or something intangible and that they've yet to describe. This it seems is them trying to reclaim ownership of unix as a whole, not a specific branch of it they might own through inheritance. Note the recent claims that they are an IDEA company, and that without their ideas Linux wouldn't scale, various filesystems wouldn't work (which somehow makes them derivative of SCO property instead of just dependent?)... Wait... ok, let's just drop this... it's too easy to rant for a week about SCO and just sound paranoid to most people. Slashdot is probably the best place to go if you feel that need. Otherwise, let's just wait until they put BSD and Apple squarely in their sites (it looks bound to happen, merit or not). I'm not even completely disillusioned with our legal system yet... but despite the complete horsecrap being slung by these guys, and despite going directly up against the biggest IP firm in the world, I wouldn't place any bets on this one yet. -R From jared at 23x.net Wed Nov 19 16:29:29 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: <9ADF43C4-1AE1-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <9C3B4ABA-1ADA-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9ADF43C4-1AE1-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <70CFD650-1AEF-11D8-A207-000A958F180A@23x.net> On 19 Nov 2003, at 23:42, Jim Rankin wrote: > Darl McBride has become the Iraqi information minister. Perfect. -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "No SPORK today. SPORK tomorrow. There's always SPORK tomorrow." From thomasv at mac.com Wed Nov 19 16:36:25 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: <0A42F595-1AE9-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <9C3B4ABA-1ADA-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9ADF43C4-1AE1-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <0A42F595-1AE9-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: What no has pointed out is the amount of *BSD something floating around out their. Not OS's but embedded devices! Cheers, Tom From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 19 17:22:02 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: References: <9C3B4ABA-1ADA-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9ADF43C4-1AE1-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <0A42F595-1AE9-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 19, 2003, at 4:15 PM, Thomas Vincent wrote: > What no has pointed out is the amount of *BSD something floating > around out their. Not OS's but embedded devices! I sense a resurrection of "all your base" in the wings. - Scott From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 19 17:28:12 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <63B6D57E-1ADB-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <63B6D57E-1ADB-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <9A732CDE-1AF8-11D8-A8D5-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 1:57 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > Oh, understood. I hope you didn't think I was being too dismissive -- > I am genuinely interested in others' views. If there's a reasonable > level of interest, I may be able to organise it. Yeah, definitely need to hear from other people first. The more I think about it, the more I realize you're probably right about transit time. Although a carpool should cut down on the time due to the commuter lane (mass transit even more so). This thread has been a little disconnected, so let's summarize: 1. Macworld Expo runs Jan 5-9 2. BaNG is a Mac OS X/Cocoa/WebObjects user group that meets at the Apple Campus once a month (bang.org), often with a speaker from Apple or a third party developer talking about their product. 3. If you'd be interested in finding a way to the Apple Campus in Cupertino (60-90 min south of san francisco) for a special session of BaNG some evening during Macworld Week, send a message to mmalc (hope that's okay ;). This might be a separate ordeal from some sort of -talk/-nutters get together, which would more likely happen in San Francisco. > Just to put things in perspective, though, the 45 minute taxi ride > will probably cost around $100! I guess I was hoping for some ad-hoc carpooling. :) > And for "seeing the campus from the inside", there's not much you can > see or get to from Town Hall. You can catch a glimpse of the > "quad"... Well, it's something. More than most people get. Bear in mind we may be desensitized. :) - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From gerard_iglesias at mac.com Wed Nov 19 18:38:01 2003 From: gerard_iglesias at mac.com (Gerard Iglesias) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Bill Joy on G5s and OS X In-Reply-To: <4A5CEFCE-1AB9-11D8-A8FE-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> References: <2D0553FF-1AAF-11D8-A4A9-000A95A50218@mac.com> <75EC491D-1AB2-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <4A5CEFCE-1AB9-11D8-A8FE-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> Message-ID: <639D0502-1B02-11D8-837E-000A958F167A@mac.com> And this one is very nice IMHO : What about the open source idea in general? Open source is fine, but it doesn't take a worldwide community to create a great operating system. Look at Ken Thompson creating Unix, Stephen Wolfram writing Mathematica in a summer, James Gosling in his office making Java. Now, there's nothing wrong with letting other people help, but open source doesn't assist the initial creative act. What we need now are great things. I don't need to see the source code. I just want a system that works. Regards GI -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 879 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031119/bc5a6338/attachment.bin From steve at paper-ape.com Wed Nov 19 22:54:09 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Longhorn versus Mac OS (not OSX) In-Reply-To: <88AA6B4B-1ADC-11D8-97BD-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <9FB4926E-18E7-11D8-8525-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <5443FE00-1A61-11D8-A440-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> <76049318-1A68-11D8-B83C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <88AA6B4B-1ADC-11D8-97BD-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: at 20031119, 15:05 -0700, they whom i call Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >On Nov 19, 2003, at 12:56 PM, steve harley wrote: > >>at 20031119, 00:14 -0800, they whom i call Scott Stevenson wrote: >>>What's the historical reason for the rounded corners? >> >>a Modernist design motif > >It also goes back to the original 128k Mac yes, exactly -- the Modernist motif goes back to the original Mac and the original Mac OS -- steve harley From lomion at mac.com Wed Nov 19 23:07:07 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: References: <9C3B4ABA-1ADA-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9ADF43C4-1AE1-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <0A42F595-1AE9-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: <1D223E0F-1B28-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 7:15 PM, Thomas Vincent wrote: > What no has pointed out is the amount of *BSD something floating > around out their. Not OS's but embedded devices! > Even Microsoft has some BSD code in Windows supposedly. -Larry > Cheers, > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From charlesd at newsguy.com Thu Nov 20 04:59:10 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: <1D223E0F-1B28-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <9C3B4ABA-1ADA-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9ADF43C4-1AE1-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <0A42F595-1AE9-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> <1D223E0F-1B28-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: At 02:06 -0500 20/11/2003, Lawrence Sica wrote: >>What no has pointed out is the amount of *BSD something floating >>around out their. Not OS's but embedded devices! >> > >Even Microsoft has some BSD code in Windows supposedly. SCO vs. IBM, HP, AT&T, every Linux distributor on Earth, _and_ Microsoft? Can you say 'Grease spot'? Knew you could. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 20 05:13:39 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Cupertino (Was Re: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG?) In-Reply-To: <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <3647A8A8-1B5A-11D8-88EB-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 19 Nov 2003, at 13:45, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > On Nov 19, 2003, at 11:58 AM, Scott Stevenson wrote: >>> Suggestions for venue would be welcome (from anyone) -- or did you >>> (Scott) mean Town Hall? >> I was originally thinking town hall, yes. Probably be easier to >> recruit a speaker there? >> > I'm not sure it makes a *lot* of difference for getting speakers, but > for attendees there's a considerable difference. It's a non-trivial > trip from downtown San Francisco to Infinite Loop. Although I'm sure > some would be happy to make the pilgrimage, I'm not sure how practical > it really is? Others' opinions welcome. On one of my many trips to the Bay my wife and I drove from Walnut Creek down the East Bay and hit the various missions on the way to Cupertino. The story was, we were going to see missions. The truth was, I was on a mission. We finally reached Cupertino after spending a good hour at Mission San Jose and I was driving around. Suddenly my wife says, "What are you looking for?" "Infinite Loop." "What?" "Er -- Apple Headquarters." Slightly exasperated sigh. "Is that why we drove down here." "Well, no, we went to Mission San Jose, didn't we?" "Uh huh." So, we drive a little more and finally she asks, "Why don't you just ask for directions?" "No no, I'll find it." "What are you looking for, a Apple-colored rainbow?" It occurred to me that, yes, I was looking for some sort of "sign," so I asked for directions. Pretty sure I would have found it. Got pictures of myself in the icon garden, though, so it was worth the day trip just for that. Also picked up a couple hundred dollars in Apple merchandise (shirts, pins, pens, etc). -- When we woke up that morning we had no way of knowing that in a matter of hours we'd changed the way we were going. Where would I be now? Where would I bee now if we'd never met? Would I be singing this song to someone else instead? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031120/d574e16c/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 20 05:21:16 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:31 2005 Subject: Bill Joy on G5s and OS X In-Reply-To: <4A5CEFCE-1AB9-11D8-A8FE-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> References: <2D0553FF-1AAF-11D8-A4A9-000A95A50218@mac.com> <75EC491D-1AB2-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <4A5CEFCE-1AB9-11D8-A8FE-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> Message-ID: On 19 Nov 2003, at 10:53, Jes?s D?az wrote: >> Wired: And yet you've been famously cool about Linux. > >> Joy: Re-implementing what I designed in 1979 is not interesting to me >> personally. For kids who are 20 years younger than me, Linux is a >> great way to cut your teeth. It's a cultural phenomenon and a >> business phenomenon. Mac OS X is a rock-solid system that's >> beautifully designed. I much prefer it to Linux. > > Aaah... Check out the newest random sig: -- I find Windows of absolutely no technical interest... Mac OS X is a rock-solid system that's beautifully designed. I much prefer it to Linux. -- Bill Joy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031120/ea5e6c11/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 20 05:27:11 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: <2F83727A-1AEC-11D8-A91C-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> References: <2F83727A-1AEC-11D8-A91C-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: On 19 Nov 2003, at 16:57, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > I'm not even completely disillusioned with our legal system yet... but > despite the complete horsecrap being slung by these guys, and despite > going directly up against the biggest IP firm in the world, I wouldn't > place any bets on this one yet. With MSFT funding them and the fact that money trumps all in the US Courts (almost universally in the civil courts, slightly less so in the criminal courts) I have no faith at all that this will not turn out stupidly. -- Well I've seen the Heart of Darkness/Read the writing on the wall/and the voice out in the desert/Was the voice out in the hall -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031120/b0ebcc40/smime.bin From soft at bdanube.com Thu Nov 20 05:36:41 2003 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 19, 2003, at 3:25 PM, Lawrence Sica wrote: > Interesting, I am no lawyer Y'know, that's the problem with our society these days, there's just not enough lawyers.... Michael -- "The road to truth is long, and lined the entire way with annoying bastards." - Alexander Jablokov From markm at tyrell.com Thu Nov 20 09:47:01 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: [ANN] Open Source Experts Adds Mac OS Darwin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Mark Pratt Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:14:57 +0100 Hi, opensourcexperts.com has added a category for Mac OS Darwin at: http://www.opensourcexperts.com One of the features of this site is that when Companies or Individuals register (its free) they can select multiple Open Source technologies they support and be listed in an index for each. See: http://www.opensourcexperts.com/Index/index_html Ever index is available as an RSS Feed: (Here's the one for Mac OS Darwin) http://www.opensourcexperts.com/Index/rdfrss/Mac%20OS%20Darwin.xml For a more detailed overview of what opensourcexperts.com does (our Index is only one of many features) please see our Tour: http://www.opensourcexperts.com/Tour/index.html From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Thu Nov 20 10:21:04 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: References: <2F83727A-1AEC-11D8-A91C-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: <423B231A-1B84-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 20, 2003, at 8:24 AM, Lukreme wrote: > With MSFT funding them and the fact that money trumps all in the US > Courts (almost universally in the civil courts, slightly less so in > the criminal courts) I have no faith at all that this will not turn > out stupidly. > Well, IBM has a little bit of money, and a little bit of IP legal experience, too. And MS can only do so much without totally exposing their hand. -jimbo "Cocoa, Apple's insanely cool object-oriented application frameworks ... which so totally kicks black-clad Ninja ass over all other GUI frameworks I've used that it isn't even funny." -Jens Alfke From markm at tyrell.com Thu Nov 20 10:57:16 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Hardware System Pref In-Reply-To: <9BBEEB7E-1AA0-11D8-8A42-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <9BBEEB7E-1AA0-11D8-8A42-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: At 2:56 PM +0000 11/19/03, Matt wrote: >Is it just me or has this thread been on here 3 times now? > >You installed the CHUD tools, didn't you? It's you. That's a given. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 20 11:21:44 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Hardware System Pref In-Reply-To: References: <9BBEEB7E-1AA0-11D8-8A42-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <64FEA01C-1B8D-11D8-A95F-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 20 Nov 2003, at 18:29, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 2:56 PM +0000 11/19/03, Matt wrote: >> Is it just me or has this thread been on here 3 times now? >> >> You installed the CHUD tools, didn't you? > > It's you. > > That's a given. You're such a naughty boy. Report to nutters immediately for a good ... -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Thu Nov 20 11:53:04 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: References: <9C3B4ABA-1ADA-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9ADF43C4-1AE1-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <0A42F595-1AE9-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> <1D223E0F-1B28-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: <20031120194315.GB2651@Dark-Age.local> On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 07:54:15AM -0500, Charles Dyer wrote: : : At 02:06 -0500 20/11/2003, Lawrence Sica wrote: : >> : >>What no has pointed out is the amount of *BSD something floating : >>around out their. Not OS's but embedded devices! : > : >Even Microsoft has some BSD code in Windows supposedly. : : SCO vs. IBM, HP, AT&T, every Linux distributor on Earth, _and_ : Microsoft? Can you say 'Grease spot'? Knew you could. SCO going after M$ is just a cover, as they likely got paid by M$ directly or by forces that are strongly allied to M$: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1356718,00.asp -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From lomion at mac.com Thu Nov 20 12:02:30 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: References: <2F83727A-1AEC-11D8-A91C-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> Message-ID: <512CF784-1B92-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 20, 2003, at 8:24 AM, Lukreme wrote: > On 19 Nov 2003, at 16:57, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: >> I'm not even completely disillusioned with our legal system yet... >> but despite the complete horsecrap being slung by these guys, and >> despite going directly up against the biggest IP firm in the world, I >> wouldn't place any bets on this one yet. > > With MSFT funding them and the fact that money trumps all in the US > Courts (almost universally in the civil courts, slightly less so in > the criminal courts) I have no faith at all that this will not turn > out stupidly. > Also this was a settled court case which was sealed under a US Federal judge, so they would have to disclose the contents of the original settlement. I really have no idea why they would even bring up the BSD lawsuit, they open themselves up to a countersuit again from UC Berkely. I am curious how Apple is taking this news as OS X used code from various BSD unices. --Larry From list-omnigroup at fsck.net Thu Nov 20 12:15:09 2003 From: list-omnigroup at fsck.net (Eugene Lee) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Darwin contributing back to open-source projects Message-ID: <20031120194903.GC2651@Dark-Age.local> Among other bits: http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.2R/todo.html Merge of Darwin msdosfs, other fixes Apple's Darwin operating system has fairly extensive improvements to msdosfs and other kernel services; these fixes must be reviewed and merged to the FreeBSD tree. -- Eugene Lee http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ From mark at imap-partners.net Thu Nov 20 12:19:14 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Hardware System Pref In-Reply-To: References: <9BBEEB7E-1AA0-11D8-8A42-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <614CDD53-1B94-11D8-A381-000A958A3014@imap-partners.net> On 20 Nov 2003, at 19:29, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 2:56 PM +0000 11/19/03, Matt wrote: >> Is it just me or has this thread been on here 3 times now? >> > > It's you. Actually Matt is more or less right. This is the second round here and we also had one on Nutters. mark. From charlesd at newsguy.com Thu Nov 20 13:06:20 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: <20031120194315.GB2651@Dark-Age.local> References: <9C3B4ABA-1ADA-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9ADF43C4-1AE1-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <0A42F595-1AE9-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> <1D223E0F-1B28-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> <20031120194315.GB2651@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: At 13:43 -0600 20/11/2003, Eugene Lee wrote: >On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 07:54:15AM -0500, Charles Dyer wrote: >: >: At 02:06 -0500 20/11/2003, Lawrence Sica wrote: >: >> >: >>What no has pointed out is the amount of *BSD something floating >: >>around out their. Not OS's but embedded devices! >: > >: >Even Microsoft has some BSD code in Windows supposedly. >: >: SCO vs. IBM, HP, AT&T, every Linux distributor on Earth, _and_ >: Microsoft? Can you say 'Grease spot'? Knew you could. > >SCO going after M$ is just a cover, as they likely got paid by M$ >directly or by forces that are strongly allied to M$: > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1356718,00.asp Don't worry, IBM alone could make SCO into a grease spot without raising a sweat. IBM, AT&T, and HP should suffice to step on Microsoft. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From charlesd at newsguy.com Thu Nov 20 13:33:40 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: <512CF784-1B92-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> References: <2F83727A-1AEC-11D8-A91C-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <512CF784-1B92-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: At 14:47 -0500 20/11/2003, Lawrence Sica wrote: >On Nov 20, 2003, at 8:24 AM, Lukreme wrote: > >>On 19 Nov 2003, at 16:57, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: >>>I'm not even completely disillusioned with our legal system yet... >>>but despite the complete horsecrap being slung by these guys, and >>>despite going directly up against the biggest IP firm in the >>>world, I wouldn't place any bets on this one yet. >> >>With MSFT funding them and the fact that money trumps all in the US >>Courts (almost universally in the civil courts, slightly less so in >>the criminal courts) I have no faith at all that this will not turn >>out stupidly. >> > > >Also this was a settled court case which was sealed under a US >Federal judge, so they would have to disclose the contents of the >original settlement. I really have no idea why they would even >bring up the BSD lawsuit, they open themselves up to a countersuit >again from UC Berkely. I imagine that the Feds wouldn't be very happy, either. Senior judges tend to dislike having their rulings attacked years afterward and on utterly spurious grounds, too. Even if that particular judge isn't around any more, the judges who _are_ around won't like this at all. Irritating the judges before the case gets to trail is not generally considered a good idea. > >I am curious how Apple is taking this news as OS X used code from >various BSD unices. The Steve should be sitting back with some popcorn watching the elephants fight from a nice safe distance. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From shawnce at mac.com Thu Nov 20 14:01:02 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Fwd: www.omnigroup.com Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.tiff Type: image/tiff Size: 204 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031120/519d9bb4/image.tiff -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type multipart/alternative From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Thu Nov 20 15:34:07 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: How to find an Applescirpt command Message-ID: Hi, This morning I was looking for a command to put the computer to sleep, and one to log the machine out - I'd like to make an AS that logs the current user out (or just goes to the login window), and then puts the machine to sleep. I found the sleep command in the legacy command suite in the Finder, and still haven't found a logout command anywhere. But to look for them, I had to go basically guess which app's dictionary it was it - and for system commands like this, it is a bit of a challenge - it could be in Finder, it could be in Login Services (don't think that exists, but), Standard Additions, or maybe somewhere else. Is there any utility out there will form a "union dictionary" of all the AS commands from all the applications, and then let you do a search on everything? I also don't particularly like the way the new Script Editor arranges dictionaries into "Classes" and "Commands" (two more clicks to get to anything). It seems much more logical to either have an option to list everything (like before), or to have the commands always listed, and the Classes be under a disclosure triangle, since you're less likely to need to know about a particular class than a particular command when browsing a dictionary. Jim From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 20 16:08:38 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: SCO going after BSD? In-Reply-To: References: <9C3B4ABA-1ADA-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9ADF43C4-1AE1-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> <0A42F595-1AE9-11D8-9E07-000393A335A2@mac.com> <1D223E0F-1B28-11D8-A469-000393A335A2@mac.com> Message-ID: <3B027AC8-1BB5-11D8-88EB-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 20 Nov 2003, at 05:54, Charles Dyer wrote: > SCO vs. IBM, HP, AT&T, every Linux distributor on Earth, _and_ > Microsoft? Can you say 'Grease spot'? Knew you could. You forgot Microsoft is bankrolling SCO. -- Far away, across the fields, the tolling of the iron bell calls the faithful to their knees to hear the softly spoken magic spells. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031120/a7ed59ca/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Thu Nov 20 16:23:32 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: How to find an Applescirpt command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 20 Nov 2003, at 16:25, Jim Witte wrote: > But to look for them, I had to go basically guess which app's > dictionary it was it - and for system commands like this, it is a bit > of a challenge - it could be in Finder, it could be in Login Services > (don't think that exists, but), Standard Additions, or maybe somewhere > else. tell App "Finder" has basically been deprecated. Tell app "System Events" is prefered. In this case, however, you have to send an apple event to loginwindow ignoring application responses tell application "loginwindow" to <> end (or use aevtlogo to give the user a chance to confirm logout) -- Instant karma's gonna get you -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031120/b40a3adc/smime.bin From cmh at bdistributed.com Thu Nov 20 16:39:52 2003 From: cmh at bdistributed.com (Chris Hanson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <120E0838-1BB9-11D8-958E-000393452ABE@bdistributed.com> On Nov 15, 2003, at 3:47 AM, Stefano Mori wrote: > IT manager: "Gee.. there must be one type of computer that's better > at _this job_ than the others... This is what gets Macs in the door at lots of corporations. People think that Macs are way better at graphics and design, so that's what they buy them for. The irony is that Macs are *good* for graphics and design, and in some respects they are way better -- for example, color management -- but not in respects that matter for what they're being used for. (Really, how many graphics & design departments at small non-software non-publishing companies have ColorSync workflows?) The real advantage of the Mac is that it's a better general-purpose end-user machine for just about *every* use. That's what really makes them *good* for graphics and design; they're *good* for everything you want to do around the office. Better than Windows, better than Linux. But people pigeonhole... -- Chris -- who occasionally has to let people know that "Macs are good for graphics" is mostly just because "Macs are good for users" -- Chris Hanson bDistributed.com, Inc. Outsourcing Vendor Evaluation Custom Mac OS X Development Cocoa Developer Training From cmh at bdistributed.com Thu Nov 20 16:46:58 2003 From: cmh at bdistributed.com (Chris Hanson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: <97210A68-1760-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <01B5794B-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <744BF585-175B-11D8-81DD-000A958F180A@23x.net> <97210A68-1760-11D8-A8B1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 15, 2003, at 5:41 AM, Matt wrote: > ACLs exist on UNIX and AFAICR existed before NTFS. > > It'd be nice to have. Especially if it was "distributed". But then > there are issues to resolve before that happens. You know...single > sign-on, identify verification. The Andrew File System is a distributed filesystem with an extensive ACL model. Everybody that uses AFS also uses Kerberos for single sign-on. AFS and Kerberos work and have been working in the field for over a decade, at sites with tens of thousands of users. Both the OpenAFS and Arla implementations of AFS work on Mac OS X. To support large AFS- and Kerberos-using sites, Panther has all sorts of additional Kerberos support. And I think Panther Server can easily be configured to run a Kerberos realm. The only thing missing is out-of-box support for AFS as a client and as a server. It wouldn't surprise me if Mac OS X 10.4 or 10.5 actually had this, at least as an optional install. -- Chris -- Chris Hanson bDistributed.com, Inc. Outsourcing Vendor Evaluation Custom Mac OS X Development Cocoa Developer Training From joar at joar.com Thu Nov 20 17:05:43 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: www.omnigroup.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <050C0FCB-1BBC-11D8-916B-000393D4AB70@joar.com> I've seen that too. Unfortunately there is really nothing we (or Omnigroup) can do about that currently, besides making sure that we don't include this type of information in our messages to public mailing lists. Password protecting the list archives probably wouldn't help, as the Evildoers can just sign up for the mailing list feed and scan incoming messages. In that case the value of obfuscation of email addresses in the list archives is also nullified. For this reason I'm also planning to start to use temporary email addresses for all mailing lists that I subscribe to. Addresses that can be replaced every few months. I wonder if the only proper solution isn't to have the list server strip out all information about the sender of a message to the list, and propagate the sent message to the list as being originated by the list server itself? List members would of course still have to take care not to include personal information in their sigs... This would of course make it much more difficult to email some list member off-list, but that's as it should be IMO. j o a r On 2003-11-20, at 22.59, Shawn Erickson wrote: > Well it looks like folks are scanning Mac OS Talk archives for email > addresses and websites (not a big surprise). Look over the following > email I just got. From rogerhoward at mac.com Thu Nov 20 17:27:01 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: How to find an Applescirpt command In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thursday, November 20, 2003, at 03:25 PM, Jim Witte wrote: > Hi, > > This morning I was looking for a command to put the computer to > sleep, and one to log the machine out - I'd like to make an AS that > logs the current user out (or just goes to the login window), and then > puts the machine to sleep. I found the sleep command in the legacy > command suite in the Finder, and still haven't found a logout command > anywhere. This is an old problem... not knowing where to look makes it hard to find things. > But to look for them, I had to go basically guess which app's > dictionary it was it - and for system commands like this, it is a bit > of a challenge - it could be in Finder, it could be in Login Services > (don't think that exists, but), Standard Additions, or maybe somewhere > else. I wouldn't expect to find this in Standard Additions, if it existed it'd probably be in the Finder. But those expectations are based on years of reinforcement, so I doubt it's particularly intuitive. > Is there any utility out there will form a "union dictionary" of all > the AS commands from all the applications, and then let you do a > search on everything? I also don't particularly like the way the new > Script Editor arranges dictionaries into "Classes" and "Commands" (two > more clicks to get to anything). It seems much more logical to either > have an option to list everything (like before), or to have the > commands always listed, and the Classes be under a disclosure > triangle, since you're less likely to need to know about a particular > class than a particular command when browsing a dictionary. Many years ago I had created an indexed PDF of the dictionaries of every scriptable component on my systems... it wasn't hard. I don't know if there are specific utilities to do this, I don't spend much time looking for dictionaries anymore. I can't say I'm bothered by the arrangement of Classes and Commands now... sometimes I prefer it, sometimes it's a little less fluid, but nothing stops you from just shift-selecting all of the suites in the left panel to have ALL classes and commands appear on the right. Then you can search it with a standard cmd-f. I've not seen any logout specific command in any stock dictionary... I imagine the best way will be via a do shell script command, but I'm not sure if there's even a way to log out the current user via the shell. I thought maybe shutdown might have a switch, and logout isn't it... any shell mavens care to provide a simple one-liner to kick a user back to the login screen? AppleScript is enormously useful to me, daily, and it's augmented certain phases of my career significantly. That said, I sympathize with anyone trying to learn it to an expert level - it takes time, time, and patience. I'm still not sure Apple knows how to position it, but I know it's handy to me so I'm glad it's still around. The upshot is that on OSX you have massive new opportunities to tap into other languages and tools, thanks to the shell, so generally if AppleScript doesn't present an immediate solution, I'll look to the good old command line for one. -R From cmh at bdistributed.com Thu Nov 20 17:32:19 2003 From: cmh at bdistributed.com (Chris Hanson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <2C01DF9C-1BB8-11D8-958E-000393452ABE@bdistributed.com> On Nov 14, 2003, at 11:35 PM, David Cake wrote: > In other areas, I sincerely hope Apple is paying attention and > dutifully working on their own implementation, as seems likely from > what we know of existing directions - WinFS, for example, sounds like > there is some potentially useful technology there. Yeah, it was demonstrated to be useful by BeOS in 1996-1997. Their first filesystem was a relational database; it was their second filesystem that was a more traditional with better support for adding arbitrary indexed attributes to files. For instance, your address book on BeOS was just another table in the database; there was a link to it in the "filesystem" but it was really just a different set of columns. Same with mailboxes -- they were just tables containing a different set of columns. It's probably a little easier to take NTFS in that direction than HFS+, because NTFS internally is structured the same way a relational database is. I think HFS+ is structured more like a traditional filesystem. However, it would not surprise me in the least if Apple is also moving in the same direction as the original BeOS filesystem. > Looking at, say, photos - integrating many ways of dealing with photos > in an application, even a really good application like iPhoto, is > probably not as good as integrating a many ways of dealing with photos > across the OS as Longhorn will do with the Libraries concept (even > though the UI of the Longhorn implementation does appear to suck). You > can see how the Longhorn cheer squad might be thinking that they can > leap frog Mac OS X. Oh, of course. But Apple obviously has an SPI (System Programming Interface -- an Apple-internal-only API) for doing things like accessing your iTunes library, your iPhoto library, and so on. If they review, generalize, and publish these, whammo, you have a Libraries concept. If these are integrated with what will eventually be an API for access to a systemwide filesystem/database, so much the better. > Similarly, XAML sounds like a very interesting idea, and potentially > very powerful. But Apple is already several years ahead in that > direction with .nibs, etc - is there any reason to believe that Apple > will make no progress in two years? Actually, XAML and Avalon/WinFX aren't even catching up to where Apple is with nib files. (Which is where NeXT was with nib files FIFTEEN YEARS AGO.) I've written about this extensively on my weblog . Specifically: If you want something like XAML in your Cocoa development, use GNUstep Renaissance. It was released almost a year ago, it's LGPL so you can easily use it in both Open Source *and* commercial software without fear of "infection" by the GPL (not something I worry about, but I know people who do), and it works well. You can specify an application's interface in XML using boxes and automatic layout (like Avalon's "panels" and Java's "layout managers"), you can instantiate arbitrary objects of arbitrary classes and wire them up together and set arbitrary properties within them via key-value coding, and so on. And if there's something it doesn't do that you want it to do *you have the source*. Really, the only advantages that XAML has over GNUstep Renaissance are (1) integrated support for drawing & animation, and (2) a whole lot more pre-built objects. (2) isn't a big deal, since you can instantiate and wire up arbitrary objects anyway and it should be easy to add your own top-level object support to Renaissance. (1) is also relatively easy to address: Someone just has to create a generic SVGView for Cocoa and GNUstep, and then add top-level support for it to Renaissance. OK, so creating a generic SVGView isn't "two hours of hacking" easy, but it *is* straightforward since SVG uses the same imaging model as Mac OS X. And adding direct support for it to Renaissance shouldn't be tough either. -- Chris -- XAML watcher and developer of custom Mac OS X applications -- weblog: http://www.livejournal.com/users/chanson/ -- RSS (full feed): http://www.livejournal.com/users/chanson/data/rss -- Chris Hanson bDistributed.com, Inc. Outsourcing Vendor Evaluation Custom Mac OS X Development Cocoa Developer Training From cmh at bdistributed.com Thu Nov 20 17:54:06 2003 From: cmh at bdistributed.com (Chris Hanson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: <20031116095131.GB10447@Dark-Age.local> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <01B5794B-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <20031116095131.GB10447@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: On Nov 16, 2003, at 3:51 AM, Eugene Lee wrote: > : You *KNOW* Apple is working on some sort of DBFS. They hired > wasisname > : from Be, right? I doubt he's sweeping floors. > > Dominic Giampaolo. Also, while Dominic worked on BeFS at Be, that's no guarantee he's working on the same things at Apple. He could be working on iTunes. He could be working on Keynote. He could be porting Shake from X11/Motif/Inventor to Cocoa. He could be designing new alert sounds. He could be a system administrator in Apple IS&T. Unless he actually says what he's working on, or someone else with inside knowledge says what he's working on (possibly violating an NDA in the process), you *don't know*. -- Chris -- Chris Hanson bDistributed.com, Inc. Outsourcing Vendor Evaluation Custom Mac OS X Development Cocoa Developer Training From surajrai at mac.com Thu Nov 20 19:12:15 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj K. Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <01B5794B-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <20031116095131.GB10447@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <1069383594.3fbd7faa324b1@raifamily.dyndns.org> Quoting Chris Hanson : > On Nov 16, 2003, at 3:51 AM, Eugene Lee wrote: > > : You *KNOW* Apple is working on some sort of DBFS. They hired > > wasisname > > : from Be, right? I doubt he's sweeping floors. > > > > Dominic Giampaolo. > > Also, while Dominic worked on BeFS at Be, that's no guarantee he's > working on the same things at Apple. Well ... "At Apple I work in the file system group. Woohoo." http://www.letterp.com/~dbg/ S.r. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From macosx at wooz.org Thu Nov 20 19:28:42 2003 From: macosx at wooz.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: www.omnigroup.com In-Reply-To: <050C0FCB-1BBC-11D8-916B-000393D4AB70@joar.com> References: <050C0FCB-1BBC-11D8-916B-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: <1069384901.3854.10.camel@geddy> On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 19:45, j o a r wrote: > I wonder if the only proper solution isn't to have the list server > strip out all information about the sender of a message to the list, > and propagate the sent message to the list as being originated by the > list server itself? List members would of course still have to take > care not to include personal information in their sigs... > This would of course make it much more difficult to email some list > member off-list, but that's as it should be IMO. Mailman can be set to anonymize messages, but that may be going too far (and as you say, won't touch any sigs). It's a sad given that if they want to harvest your address, they will, and if you participate on public lists, they can. -Barry From rblove at airmail.net Thu Nov 20 20:26:08 2003 From: rblove at airmail.net (Robert Love) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Software Update/Installed Updates Message-ID: <321739E0-1BDC-11D8-824D-000393C35A6A@airmail.net> Does the Installed Updates tab on the Software Update Preference do anything? I know since Panther came out I've upgraded a dozen items but there is no record in Installed Updates. What is it supposed to show? Does it work for other people? -- Bob Love mail: rblove@airmail.net aim: rlove@mac.com From jer at mia.net Thu Nov 20 20:35:53 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <426936E4-1BDB-11D8-9032-000393D650E2@mia.net> I am using Toast 5.1.3 and after upgrading to Panther it will not open. According to Roxio's support docs, Toast 5 is compatible with OSX 10.3, however I cannot get it to open after upgrading. Any ideas? Thanx. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From zbir at urbanape.com Thu Nov 20 20:47:06 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: <426936E4-1BDB-11D8-9032-000393D650E2@mia.net> References: <426936E4-1BDB-11D8-9032-000393D650E2@mia.net> Message-ID: On Nov 20, 2003, at 11:29 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > I am using Toast 5.1.3 and after upgrading to Panther it will not > open. According to Roxio's support docs, Toast 5 is compatible with > OSX 10.3, however I cannot get it to open after upgrading. > > Any ideas? Spend five minutes writing a kernel extension to make it work? Zac From jer at mia.net Thu Nov 20 21:11:05 2003 From: jer at mia.net (Jeremy Kinsey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: References: <426936E4-1BDB-11D8-9032-000393D650E2@mia.net> Message-ID: <7A121AD9-1BE0-11D8-8E62-000393D650E2@mia.net> On Nov 20, 2003, at 10:46 PM, Zachery Bir wrote: > On Nov 20, 2003, at 11:29 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > >> I am using Toast 5.1.3 and after upgrading to Panther it will not >> open. According to Roxio's support docs, Toast 5 is compatible with >> OSX 10.3, however I cannot get it to open after upgrading. >> >> Any ideas? > > Spend five minutes writing a kernel extension to make it work? > > Apparently there are still a lot of immature little children lurking on this list who have nothing valuable to contribute. Grow up. Regards, Jeremy Anthony Kinsey e-mail: jer@mia.net ________________________________________________________ Bella Mia, Inc. www.mia.net 401 Host Drive www.dslone.com Lake Geneva, WI. 53147 www.hostdrive.com Phone: (262)248-6759 www.bella-mia.com Fax: (262)248-6959 www.thednsplace.com From chad at objectwerks.com Thu Nov 20 21:25:01 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: <7A121AD9-1BE0-11D8-8E62-000393D650E2@mia.net> References: <426936E4-1BDB-11D8-9032-000393D650E2@mia.net> <7A121AD9-1BE0-11D8-8E62-000393D650E2@mia.net> Message-ID: On Nov 20, 2003, at 10:06 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > > On Nov 20, 2003, at 10:46 PM, Zachery Bir wrote: > >> On Nov 20, 2003, at 11:29 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >> >>> I am using Toast 5.1.3 and after upgrading to Panther it will not >>> open. According to Roxio's support docs, Toast 5 is compatible with >>> OSX 10.3, however I cannot get it to open after upgrading. >>> >>> Any ideas? >> >> Spend five minutes writing a kernel extension to make it work? >> >> > Apparently there are still a lot of immature little children lurking > on this list who have nothing valuable to contribute. Grow up. > Sorry, he is a grown up. Maybe you should take your own advice. However, Toast 5.2.1 works with Panther and it used to be a free upgrade from 5.1.x to 5.2.x. Check out roxio.com and see if you can upgrade from 5.1.3 to 5.2.1. Chad From rogerhoward at mac.com Thu Nov 20 21:34:03 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: <426936E4-1BDB-11D8-9032-000393D650E2@mia.net> References: <426936E4-1BDB-11D8-9032-000393D650E2@mia.net> Message-ID: <4448A7A1-1BE4-11D8-B6C1-0003938C8B26@mac.com> On Nov 20, 2003, at 8:29 PM, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: > I am using Toast 5.1.3 and after upgrading to Panther it will not > open. According to Roxio's support docs, Toast 5 is compatible with > OSX 10.3, however I cannot get it to open after upgrading. I'd recommend updating to Toast 5.2.x, and then maybe find a sense of humor. -R From dave at difference.com.au Thu Nov 20 23:24:01 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: <2C01DF9C-1BB8-11D8-958E-000393452ABE@bdistributed.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <2C01DF9C-1BB8-11D8-958E-000393452ABE@bdistributed.com> Message-ID: >>Looking at, say, photos - integrating many ways of dealing with >>photos in an application, even a really good application like >>iPhoto, is probably not as good as integrating a many ways of >>dealing with photos across the OS as Longhorn will do with the >>Libraries concept (even though the UI of the Longhorn >>implementation does appear to suck). You can see how the Longhorn >>cheer squad might be thinking that they can leap frog Mac OS X. > >Oh, of course. But Apple obviously has an SPI (System Programming >Interface -- an Apple-internal-only API) for doing things like >accessing your iTunes library, your iPhoto library, and so on. If >they review, generalize, and publish these, whammo, you have a >Libraries concept. > >If these are integrated with what will eventually be an API for >access to a systemwide filesystem/database, so much the better. That is pretty much my hope - that we will get access to APIs for things like iPhoto and iTunes, the same way as we have Address Book APIs now, and that at the same time iPhoto and iTunes will expand to manage data outside of their own directory hierachies more comprehensively. > >> Similarly, XAML sounds like a very interesting idea, and >>potentially very powerful. But Apple is already several years ahead >>in that direction with .nibs, etc - is there any reason to believe >>that Apple will make no progress in two years? > >Actually, XAML and Avalon/WinFX aren't even catching up to where >Apple is with nib files. (Which is where NeXT was with nib files >FIFTEEN YEARS AGO.) I've written about this extensively on my >weblog . Yeah, now I read it, you are right - XAML is used to generate code, not as a marshaller/archiver etc? I'm just surprised its that poor. A one way code generating tool really isn't that exciting these days. >(1) is also relatively easy to address: Someone just has to create a >generic SVGView for Cocoa and GNUstep, and then add top-level >support for it to Renaissance. OK, so creating a generic SVGView >isn't "two hours of hacking" easy, but it *is* straightforward since >SVG uses the same imaging model as Mac OS X. And adding direct >support for it to Renaissance shouldn't be tough either. > And a generic SVGView would be useful for lots of other things besides. Cheers David From jared at 23x.net Fri Nov 21 00:10:03 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: <7A121AD9-1BE0-11D8-8E62-000393D650E2@mia.net> References: <426936E4-1BDB-11D8-9032-000393D650E2@mia.net> <7A121AD9-1BE0-11D8-8E62-000393D650E2@mia.net> Message-ID: On 21 Nov 2003, at 06:06, Jeremy Kinsey wrote: >> Spend five minutes writing a kernel extension to make it work? >> > Apparently there are still a lot of immature little children lurking > on this list who have nothing valuable to contribute. Grow up. Yeah, cos it's not him that can fix stuff in 5 minutes, it's his mate. The serious response should have been "get your pal to fix it in five minutes". ps. Try upgrading toast to 5.2.x -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "There is no SPORK" From mmalc_lists at mac.com Fri Nov 21 00:49:01 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: [Osx-nutters] Re: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <9A732CDE-1AF8-11D8-A8D5-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <63B6D57E-1ADB-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <9A732CDE-1AF8-11D8-A8D5-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <84B767BB-1BFF-11D8-85BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 3:26 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > 3. If you'd be interested in finding a way to the Apple Campus in > Cupertino (60-90 min south of san francisco) for a special session of > BaNG some evening during Macworld Week, send a message to mmalc (hope > that's okay ;). > Certainly -- although I'm on holiday this week, so only replying sporadically. >> And for "seeing the campus from the inside", there's not much you can >> see or get to from Town Hall. You can catch a glimpse of the >> "quad"... > Well, it's something. More than most people get. Bear in mind we may > be desensitized. :) > Fair comment, I just didn't want anyone to think they'd be getting free run of the campus. mmalc From dez at mac.com Fri Nov 21 00:55:14 2003 From: dez at mac.com (Derek Chesterfield) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Software Update/Installed Updates In-Reply-To: <321739E0-1BDC-11D8-824D-000393C35A6A@airmail.net> References: <321739E0-1BDC-11D8-824D-000393C35A6A@airmail.net> Message-ID: It works for me. Did you download the updates to the desktop before applying manually? I don't, so maybe manual installs don't show up? On Nov 21, 2003, at 4:35 am, Robert Love wrote: > Does the Installed Updates tab on the Software Update Preference do > anything? I know since Panther came out I've upgraded a dozen items > but there is no record in Installed Updates. What is it supposed to > show? Does it work for other people? From cmh at bdistributed.com Fri Nov 21 01:17:02 2003 From: cmh at bdistributed.com (Chris Hanson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <92B336EF-1AE2-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <63B6D57E-1ADB-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <92B336EF-1AE2-11D8-A295-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> Message-ID: <683181D2-1C03-11D8-94AB-000393452ABE@bdistributed.com> On Nov 19, 2003, at 4:49 PM, Jim Rankin wrote: > Ok, I give up. What's "Town Hall"? Town Hall is the nice conference room/theater in R&D 4. Or Infinite Loop 4, as people are calling it now. -- Chris -- worked in R&D 6 a long time ago -- Chris Hanson bDistributed.com, Inc. Outsourcing Vendor Evaluation Custom Mac OS X Development Cocoa Developer Training From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 21 01:31:02 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <01B5794B-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <20031116095131.GB10447@Dark-Age.local> Message-ID: <6441BADE-1C05-11D8-88EB-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 20 Nov 2003, at 17:36, Chris Hanson wrote: > On Nov 16, 2003, at 3:51 AM, Eugene Lee wrote: >> : You *KNOW* Apple is working on some sort of DBFS. They hired >> wasisname >> : from Be, right? I doubt he's sweeping floors. >> >> Dominic Giampaolo. > > Also, while Dominic worked on BeFS at Be, that's no guarantee he's > working on the same things at Apple. > > He could be working on iTunes. He could be working on Keynote. He > could be porting Shake from X11/Motif/Inventor to Cocoa. He could be > designing new alert sounds. He could be a system administrator in > Apple IS&T. Sure, he COULD be sweeping floors. But you don't generally hire a FS specialist to sweep floors. -- "I don't care how much melanin you have in your skin nor who you sleep with, you can't have my cheese." From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 21 01:38:01 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Software Update/Installed Updates In-Reply-To: <321739E0-1BDC-11D8-824D-000393C35A6A@airmail.net> References: <321739E0-1BDC-11D8-824D-000393C35A6A@airmail.net> Message-ID: On 20 Nov 2003, at 21:35, Robert Love wrote: > Does the Installed Updates tab on the Software Update Preference do > anything? I know since Panther came out I've upgraded a dozen items > but there is no record in Installed Updates. What is it supposed to > show? Does it work for other people? Yes. You have a permissions problem. -- Because you can't cotton to evil. No Sir. You have to smack evil on the nose with the rolled-up newspaper of justice and say,'Bad evil. bad BAD evil'" From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Fri Nov 21 02:18:01 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: <6441BADE-1C05-11D8-88EB-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <01B5794B-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <20031116095131.GB10447@Dark-Age.local> <6441BADE-1C05-11D8-88EB-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: El Nov 21, 2003, a las 10:30 AM, Lukreme escribi?: > Sure, he COULD be sweeping floors. But you don't generally hire a FS > specialist to sweep floors. Well, unless he is also a UI specialist. Then, as Smartypants, Ziya and Danson believe, his job _will_ be _sweeping_ floors. And then, designing user interfaces at night. j. From davey at belataucadros.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 21 02:35:01 2003 From: davey at belataucadros.demon.co.uk (Davey T) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Sahring a disk image over tcp/ip In-Reply-To: <382B5796-0E64-11D8-8663-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: <4768E2A8-1C0E-11D8-9CA6-003065DC964A@belataucadros.demon.co.uk> Hi, I'm wondering if it's possible to share an ISO disc image over tcp/ip from MacOS X 10.2 so that I can install a PC with linux from it. If it is possible, how do I go about it ? Cheers, Davey From mic at micmac.com Fri Nov 21 05:07:02 2003 From: mic at micmac.com (Michel Coste) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Software Update/Installed Updates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7AD5BA49-1C23-11D8-8AEF-000502478B8F@micmac.com> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031121/d77f6b69/PGP.bin From larkost at softhome.net Fri Nov 21 05:15:02 2003 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Sahring a disk image over tcp/ip In-Reply-To: <4768E2A8-1C0E-11D8-9CA6-003065DC964A@belataucadros.demon.co.uk> References: <4768E2A8-1C0E-11D8-9CA6-003065DC964A@belataucadros.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <98E88190-1C24-11D8-9405-003065D8C728@softhome.net> I don't know about the distro of linux that you are using, but it is fairly common in the BSD world to allow NFS and FTP connections to be the source for the bulk of the install. You do still need some boot media (in FreeBSD it is usually 2 floppy disks). I always instal it as a net install... that is I only make the boot media, and then let it get the rest from the original source itself... I haven't found this method on the linux side yet. But in any case you can mount it on the mac side, and then configure ftp to share out that directory. Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net PS.. I don't know of any way of allowing it to completely net-boot from a mac. On Nov 21, 2003, at 5:34 AM, Davey T wrote: > I'm wondering if it's possible to share an ISO disc image over tcp/ip > from MacOS X 10.2 so that I can install a PC with linux from it. > > If it is possible, how do I go about it ? From markm at tyrell.com Fri Nov 21 06:06:02 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: At 1:07 PM -0800 11/19/03, Scott Stevenson wrote: >On Nov 19, 2003, at 12:45 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > >>I'm not sure it makes a *lot* of difference for getting speakers, >>but for attendees there's a considerable difference. It's a >>non-trivial trip from downtown San Francisco to Infinite Loop. >>Although I'm sure some would be happy to make the pilgrimage, I'm >>not sure how practical it really is? Others' opinions welcome. > >If it was any other location, I'd agree. But I wonder if people >might make an exception in this case. If nothing else, it's excuse >to see the Apple Campus from the inside. If you've spent the money >to fly to and stay in San Francisco, a 45 minute cab ride may be >worth it. I could be misjudging the interest -- just sort of >thinking out loud. I wouldn't go. It's not like the Apple campus is Mecca or anything. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From larkost at softhome.net Fri Nov 21 08:01:10 2003 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: You mean you haven't done your pilgrimage and circumnavigated the grounds 7 times (or at least juggled in the atrium)? How do you expect entrance to the Great Finder in the Sky? Surely you are at least tithing your %10 to Apple... at least that! Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net PS... Actually, if you can get there at a WWDC, the Apple Campus Beer Bash is a lot of fun. And for you jugglers out there, there are some really good passers at Apple... bring your clubs! On Nov 21, 2003, at 9:05 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > I wouldn't go. > > It's not like the Apple campus is Mecca or anything. From shawnce at mac.com Fri Nov 21 08:40:00 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <01B5794B-1741-11D8-BA0B-000A95935598@kreme.com> <20031116095131.GB10447@Dark-Age.local> <6441BADE-1C05-11D8-88EB-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <52D35F02-1C41-11D8-A029-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Nov 21, 2003, at 2:17 AM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > > El Nov 21, 2003, a las 10:30 AM, Lukreme escribi?: > >> Sure, he COULD be sweeping floors. But you don't generally hire a FS >> specialist to sweep floors. > > Well, unless he is also a UI specialist. > > Then, as Smartypants, Ziya and Danson believe, his job _will_ be > _sweeping_ floors. And then, designing user interfaces at night. Damit, no humor like that so early! It hurts to have hot coffee come out your nose. -Shawn From markm at tyrell.com Fri Nov 21 08:46:01 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: References: <426936E4-1BDB-11D8-9032-000393D650E2@mia.net> <7A121AD9-1BE0-11D8-8E62-000393D650E2@mia.net> Message-ID: At 10:24 PM -0700 11/20/03, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >However, Toast 5.2.1 works with Panther and it used to be a free >upgrade from 5.1.x to 5.2.x. Check out roxio.com and see if you can >upgrade from 5.1.3 to 5.2.1. Too bad Roxio's knowledge article on the matter didn't specify any problems: http://www.roxio.com/en/support/kb/toast/ET60000055.jhtml I too try to run Toast Titanium 5.1.3... and it quits as soon as the icon appears in the Dock. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From andyring at inebraska.com Fri Nov 21 08:56:03 2003 From: andyring at inebraska.com (Andy Ringsmuth) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Capture video of screen Message-ID: <7B086A0B-1C43-11D8-B4A5-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> Does anyone know of an app that will let me do a video screen capture? I need to visually record a sequence of events (actually, in order to file a bug to Apple) of something that's quite tough to explain without actually seeing it. Granted, I could probably just go home, aim the digital camcorder at the screen, etc., but I'd prefer a more "elegant" method, and I'd imagine there is some little cheap/free program that would let me record, say, 10 seconds or so worth of screen activity to an MPEG-type file. Any ideas, anyone? -Andy From gumbright at taltrade.com Fri Nov 21 09:05:12 2003 From: gumbright at taltrade.com (Guy Umbright) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 Message-ID: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F049A3451@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> Cool! I thought it was just me. (OK, well not cool, it sucks actaully, but you get what I mean) -----Original Message----- From: Mark F. Murphy [mailto:markm@tyrell.com] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 10:38 AM To: Mac OS X Talk Subject: Re: Toast 5.13 At 10:24 PM -0700 11/20/03, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >However, Toast 5.2.1 works with Panther and it used to be a free >upgrade from 5.1.x to 5.2.x. Check out roxio.com and see if you can >upgrade from 5.1.3 to 5.2.1. Too bad Roxio's knowledge article on the matter didn't specify any problems: http://www.roxio.com/en/support/kb/toast/ET60000055.jhtml I too try to run Toast Titanium 5.1.3... and it quits as soon as the icon appears in the Dock. mark -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- _______________________________________________ MacOSX-talk mailing list MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. 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From zbir at urbanape.com Fri Nov 21 09:17:28 2003 From: zbir at urbanape.com (Zachery Bir) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Capture video of screen In-Reply-To: <7B086A0B-1C43-11D8-B4A5-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> References: <7B086A0B-1C43-11D8-B4A5-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> Message-ID: <29403EB0-1C46-11D8-90E2-000A958650B6@urbanape.com> On Nov 21, 2003, at 11:55 AM, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > Does anyone know of an app that will let me do a video screen capture? > I need to visually record a sequence of events (actually, in order to > file a bug to Apple) of something that's quite tough to explain > without actually seeing it. > > Granted, I could probably just go home, aim the digital camcorder at > the screen, etc., but I'd prefer a more "elegant" method, and I'd > imagine there is some little cheap/free program that would let me > record, say, 10 seconds or so worth of screen activity to an MPEG-type > file. > > Any ideas, anyone? Snapz Pro X from Ambrosia Software: Zac From markm at tyrell.com Fri Nov 21 09:32:04 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: At 11:00 AM -0500 11/21/03, Karl Kuehn wrote: >PS... Actually, if you can get there at a WWDC, the Apple Campus >Beer Bash is a lot of fun. Yep... been to one. The beer certainly flowed. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From markm at tyrell.com Fri Nov 21 09:39:01 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F049A3451@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> References: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F049A3451@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> Message-ID: At 11:03 AM -0600 11/21/03, Guy Umbright wrote: >Cool! I thought it was just me. > >(OK, well not cool, it sucks actaully, but you get what I mean) I just upgraded to Toast 5.2.1 and it launched just fine. Has anyone got good things to say about Toast 6 and why it would be good to pay for the upgrade? mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rogerhoward at mac.com Fri Nov 21 10:16:04 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <9D1B1840-1C4D-11D8-9C07-0003938C8B26@mac.com> On Nov 21, 2003, at 8:00 AM, Karl Kuehn wrote: > You mean you haven't done your pilgrimage and circumnavigated the > grounds 7 times (or at least juggled in the atrium)? How do you expect > entrance to the Great Finder in the Sky? Surely you are at least > tithing your %10 to Apple... at least that! > > Karl Kuehn > larkost@softhome.net > > PS... Actually, if you can get there at a WWDC, the Apple Campus Beer > Bash is a lot of fun. And for you jugglers out there, there are some > really good passers at Apple... bring your clubs! No kidding? Well it stands to reason... about the only groups I feel comfortable in admitting I'm a juggler are geek groups. They frown on me juggling on the public grounds of the museum during visitor hours... -R From markm at tyrell.com Fri Nov 21 10:33:07 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Capture video of screen In-Reply-To: <7B086A0B-1C43-11D8-B4A5-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> References: <7B086A0B-1C43-11D8-B4A5-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> Message-ID: At 10:55 AM -0600 11/21/03, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: >Does anyone know of an app that will let me do a video screen >capture? I need to visually record a sequence of events (actually, >in order to file a bug to Apple) of something that's quite tough to >explain without actually seeing it. SnapzProX http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/snapzprox/ Works very well. I've used it for demos before. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From larkost at softhome.net Fri Nov 21 11:03:02 2003 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: <9D1B1840-1C4D-11D8-9C07-0003938C8B26@mac.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <661CDCA6-1AD4-11D8-84FB-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <9D1B1840-1C4D-11D8-9C07-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: <29A8CEDB-1C53-11D8-8A04-003065D8C728@softhome.net> On Nov 21, 2003, at 1:07 PM, Roger Howard wrote: >> PS... Actually, if you can get there at a WWDC, the Apple Campus Beer >> Bash is a lot of fun. And for you jugglers out there, there are some >> really good passers at Apple... bring your clubs! > > No kidding? Well it stands to reason... about the only groups I feel > comfortable in admitting I'm a juggler are geek groups. During breaks at WWDC there is usually a good group of jugglers that get together, pretty much every break. It winds up to be a good way of getting your brain back into neutral before going into the more technical sessions. And to the relation between jugglers and geekiness... in the two juggling clubs I have been a member of (Madison and Philadelphia) there are quite a few math professors (especially statistics), IT professionals (mostly UNIX guys... and yes I mean guys), and a smattering of physics people... evidently the latter take some umbrage to Yale's juggling club's motto: "Kicking Newton's Ass Since ..." (I think the year is 1903.. but don't remember exactly). > They frown on me juggling on the public grounds of the museum during > visitor hours... Just because you were jugging the iPods they were trying to sell... *sigh* people will just never understand... did you get the "dropped item discount" ? Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net From steve at paper-ape.com Fri Nov 21 11:20:35 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: How to find an Applescirpt command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at 20031120, 18:25 -0500, they whom i call Jim Witte wrote: > I also don't particularly like the way the new Script Editor >arranges dictionaries into "Classes" and "Commands" (two more clicks >to get to anything). try command right-arrow & command-option right-arrow.. note that the dictionary remembers which sublevels of the outline were previously expanded.. with a good background in the model, i find the organization very helpful -- i *like* things to be hidden in outlines; for those occasions when something's not what it seems (e.g. "POSIX path"), the search process helps reinforce my structural understanding i do think there's room for a more powerful dictionary browser.. the AETE structures are simple enough that this could be a good project for someone ... and take a look at Script Debugger -- i can't remember how it handled dictionaries, but it's pretty nice in some ways (particularly the live object browser), though not quite worth the money for me, especially with recent Script Editor improvements i also recommend Apple's list for those who want a stimulating way to deepen their AppleScript knowledge, and a great place to discover a dozen different ways to do the same thing: -- steve harley From steve at paper-ape.com Fri Nov 21 11:37:11 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn (long rant) In-Reply-To: References: <3E5DBC49-16CC-11D8-8033-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> <1CC33E24-16D3-11D8-B19C-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <2C01DF9C-1BB8-11D8-958E-000393452ABE@bdistributed.com> Message-ID: at 20031121, 15:23 +0800, they whom i call David Cake wrote: >>[quoting Chris Hanson] >>Oh, of course. But Apple obviously has an SPI (System Programming >>Interface -- an Apple-internal-only API) for doing things like >>accessing your iTunes library, your iPhoto library, and so on. If >>they review, generalize, and publish these, whammo, you have a >>Libraries concept. >> >>If these are integrated with what will eventually be an API for >>access to a systemwide filesystem/database, so much the better. > > That is pretty much my hope - that we will get access to APIs for >things like iPhoto and iTunes, the same way as we have Address Book >APIs now, and that at the same time iPhoto and iTunes will expand to >manage data outside of their own directory hierachies more >comprehensively. just curious, is there high-level info available on this internal SPI? is it generic enough to do duty for any file metadata needed for any purpose? how much does it depend on the iApps to organize the metadata, versus underlying OS capabilities like QuickTIme, LDAP, etc.? it sounds like an interesting bottom-up approach, using existing capabilities for leverage, but one has to wonder whether it will generalize, or whether it will just lead to "islands" of metadata capability in a sea of poorly differentiated data and hard-coded paths ... -- steve harley From dennyrex at earthlink.net Fri Nov 21 11:57:59 2003 From: dennyrex at earthlink.net (Rick Sanford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Friday, November 21, 2003, at 09:05 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > I wouldn't go. > > It's not like the Apple campus is Mecca or anything. yeah. it's not like it's PIXAR or something ;-) -rick > > mark > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development > > Tyrell Software Corp > From markm at tyrell.com Fri Nov 21 12:26:58 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:43 PM -0500 11/21/03, Rick Sanford wrote: >On Friday, November 21, 2003, at 09:05 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >>I wouldn't go. >> >>It's not like the Apple campus is Mecca or anything. > >yeah. it's not like it's PIXAR or something ;-) I think I'd go to Pixar. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fabienlroy at mac.com Fri Nov 21 12:34:33 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:32 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: References: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F049A3451@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> Message-ID: Just to keep them alive :-) Fabien On Nov 21, 2003, at 9:33 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 11:03 AM -0600 11/21/03, Guy Umbright wrote: >> Cool! I thought it was just me. >> >> (OK, well not cool, it sucks actaully, but you get what I mean) > > I just upgraded to Toast 5.2.1 and it launched just fine. > > Has anyone got good things to say about Toast 6 and why it would be > good to pay for the upgrade? > > mark > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development > > Tyrell Software Corp > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 21 12:42:48 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: References: <426936E4-1BDB-11D8-9032-000393D650E2@mia.net> <7A121AD9-1BE0-11D8-8E62-000393D650E2@mia.net> Message-ID: On 21 Nov 2003, at 09:38, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 10:24 PM -0700 11/20/03, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >> However, Toast 5.2.1 works with Panther and it used to be a free >> upgrade from 5.1.x to 5.2.x. Check out roxio.com and see if you can >> upgrade from 5.1.3 to 5.2.1. > > Too bad Roxio's knowledge article on the matter didn't specify any > problems: > > http://www.roxio.com/en/support/kb/toast/ET60000055.jhtml > > I too try to run Toast Titanium 5.1.3... and it quits as soon as the > icon appears in the Dock. I suspect there was something intentional in the design of Toast 5.1.3 to blow up on future OS version since the 5.1.4 contains a new License Agreement that allows Roxio access to any and all information on your computer or some such absurdities. -- There's nothing to do, so you just stay in bed [ah, poor thing] Why live in the world when you can live in your head? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031121/276120c3/smime.bin From sstevenson at mac.com Fri Nov 21 12:59:16 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 21, 2003, at 12:11 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: >> yeah. it's not like it's PIXAR or something ;-) > > I think I'd go to Pixar. It's in Emeryville, not far from San Francisco. But I don't think you could get in for any sort of user group meeting. :) - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From macosx at wooz.org Fri Nov 21 13:37:47 2003 From: macosx at wooz.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: References: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F049A3451@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> Message-ID: <1069448127.2383.129.camel@anthem> On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 15:17, Fabien Roy wrote: > Just to keep them alive :-) > > > > Has anyone got good things to say about Toast 6 and why it would be > > good to pay for the upgrade? I don't have anything /bad/ to say about Toast 6 :). These days I tend to use iTunes to burn audio CDs and Toast to burn ISOs and other data CDs. Toast 6 has a somewhat snazzier interface, and a freeware "backup" software which I'm actually not using at all. It also has the ability to burn remotely, which I also haven't used yet. :) I think they were offering a $20 discount so I figured, what the heck. I'm still on Jaguar (but now that I've updated to Cubase SX 2.0.1 I can get Panthered :) -Barry From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 21 13:55:56 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Capture video of screen In-Reply-To: <7B086A0B-1C43-11D8-B4A5-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> References: <7B086A0B-1C43-11D8-B4A5-000A95789C0C@inebraska.com> Message-ID: <3A4B9DF1-1C61-11D8-9247-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 21 Nov 2003, at 09:55, Andy Ringsmuth wrote: > Does anyone know of an app that will let me do a video screen capture? > I need to visually record a sequence of events (actually, in order to > file a bug to Apple) of something that's quite tough to explain > without actually seeing it. I believe Snapz Pro will do this. -- Ah we're lonely, we're romantic / and the cider's laced with acid / and the Holy Spirit's crying, Where's the beef? / And the moon is swimming naked / and the summer night is fragrant / with a mighty expectation of relief -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031121/34bc9f18/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Fri Nov 21 14:19:20 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: References: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F049A3451@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> Message-ID: <451CEC92-1C6F-11D8-BA8E-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 21 Nov 2003, at 10:33, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 11:03 AM -0600 11/21/03, Guy Umbright wrote: >> Cool! I thought it was just me. >> >> (OK, well not cool, it sucks actaully, but you get what I mean) > > I just upgraded to Toast 5.2.1 and it launched just fine. > > Has anyone got good things to say about Toast 6 and why it would be > good to pay for the upgrade? It (sorta) burns SVCDs. -- Instant karma's gonna get you -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031121/4e6a2b45/smime.bin From thomasv at mac.com Fri Nov 21 15:05:04 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: 18-Hour Darwin security hackathon Message-ID: <01E08B69-1C77-11D8-8DFC-003065C4548E@mac.com> If anyone is going to be in the Washington D.C. area near GWU. Tuesday, December 2-3, 2003 there is going to be a 18 hour hacking of the Darwin kernel adding new security features to Darwin. It is going to be run by John Viega. It is free of course. It starts on 10 am Tuesday, and ends at 4 am on Wed . More information can be found at: http://www.stosx.org/dc03/tutorials.html It is a free part of the Stos Conference. Cheers, Tom From joar at joar.com Fri Nov 21 15:57:04 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: iSync screwing with the Address Book? Message-ID: <413066DE-1C7E-11D8-B457-000393D4AB70@joar.com> A quick question for you guys, I'm trying to file a bug report against either Mail or iSync. The problem I have is that one of them is modifying the records in my AB behind my back, changing the names or adding names to AB entries. You might have seen it when you try to create a message to this list. All of a sudden when you try to enter the address for macosx-talk, Mails autocompletes the address using some other name for the mailing list than what you think that you have stored in the AB. The "Previous Recipients" list in Mail could possibly cause this problem - but not in all cases. In some cases the AB record has actually been updated. I see that a lot of you are sending mail to the list using special spellings of the list name like "Talk - Omni", "X Talk", "Mac OS X Bitch". If you have these names in your AB, have you added them to the AB yourself, or have they just ended up there as if by magic? In my case I keep a record for each mailing list I'm subscribed to. I keep the name of the mailing list as a "company name" in the AB record. To me that feels more natural than setting it as either the first or last name, or to split it up between the two. Very often, the first and / or last name fields ends up being populated with some permutation of the list name. I know that I'm not the one who is adding this data to the AB - so then who is? I'm trying to write a good bug report, but I don't have a fully reproducible case. If you have seen this problem, have you managed to put the finger on it yet? j o a r From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Nov 21 16:23:21 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: iSync screwing with the Address Book? In-Reply-To: <413066DE-1C7E-11D8-B457-000393D4AB70@joar.com> References: <413066DE-1C7E-11D8-B457-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: On Nov 21, 2003, at 4:55 PM, j o a r wrote: > A quick question for you guys, > > I'm trying to file a bug report against either Mail or iSync. The > problem I have is that one of them is modifying the records in my AB > behind my back, changing the names or adding names to AB entries. > > You might have seen it when you try to create a message to this list. > All of a sudden when you try to enter the address for macosx-talk, > Mails autocompletes the address using some other name for the mailing > list than what you think that you have stored in the AB. The "Previous > Recipients" list in Mail could possibly cause this problem - but not > in all cases. In some cases the AB record has actually been updated. > > I see that a lot of you are sending mail to the list using special > spellings of the list name like "Talk - Omni", "X Talk", "Mac OS X > Bitch". If you have these names in your AB, have you added them to the > AB yourself, or have they just ended up there as if by magic? > Yes, every time I send to the list it has a new name :-) which describes what you are seeing. I don't have any address book entries for the mailing lists so they are all in the "recipients" database that Mail keeps itself. I have not looked in detail to figure out exactly what is going on. I think that the last message I looked at, whether I am replying to that one or not, is the one that shows up but again I am not positive that is the behavior. Chad From rblove at airmail.net Fri Nov 21 16:31:17 2003 From: rblove at airmail.net (Robert Love) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Software Update/Installed Updates In-Reply-To: References: <321739E0-1BDC-11D8-824D-000393C35A6A@airmail.net> Message-ID: <7521C906-1C83-11D8-824D-000393C35A6A@airmail.net> On Nov 21, 2003, at 3:33 AM, Lukreme wrote: > On 20 Nov 2003, at 21:35, Robert Love wrote: >> Does the Installed Updates tab on the Software Update Preference do >> anything? I know since Panther came out I've upgraded a dozen items >> but there is no record in Installed Updates. What is it supposed to >> show? Does it work for other people? > > Yes. You have a permissions problem. No, it turns out to be a different problem. The first n lines of the log file were filled with some binary garbage. After that, it was all the good text showing the d/l were there. When I edited out the garbage it worked fine. I have no idea how the junk got in there. Thanks to all who responded. From joar at joar.com Fri Nov 21 16:47:50 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: iSync screwing with the Address Book? In-Reply-To: References: <413066DE-1C7E-11D8-B457-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: <5F6578F6-1C83-11D8-B457-000393D4AB70@joar.com> In my case this is not the problem. IMO Mail can update the Previous Recipients list as much as it likes. As long as I don't have an AB entry for a particular address, Mail should fetch one from this list. That is fine. However, I don't like seeing that entries in the AB is automatically changed by Mail or iSync. I don't know why this happens, but I most often notice that it has happened when I compose a message to this list or to Cocoa-Dev. I'm sure those of you who are also on that list has seen the name "Cocoa Dev Dev" being used. I'm fairly sure that is caused by "Cocoa Dev" being assigned as the "first name", and "Dev" as the last name of that AB entry. No user would assign names to an AB entry like that - it has to have been done by some Evildoing application. j o a r On 2003-11-22, at 01.22, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > Yes, every time I send to the list it has a new name :-) which > describes what you are seeing. I don't have any address book entries > for the mailing lists so they are all in the "recipients" database > that Mail keeps itself. I have not looked in detail to figure out > exactly what is going on. I think that the last message I looked at, > whether I am replying to that one or not, is the one that shows up > but again I am not positive that is the behavior. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2380 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031121/0a0e5d44/smime.bin From markm at tyrell.com Fri Nov 21 16:53:07 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: <1069448127.2383.129.camel@anthem> References: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F049A3451@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> <1069448127.2383.129.camel@anthem> Message-ID: At 3:55 PM -0500 11/21/03, Barry Warsaw wrote: >Toast 6 has a somewhat snazzier interface, and a freeware "backup" >software which I'm actually not using at all. The backup software caught my eye. If it makes it easy to simply back up to a blank DVD, I think it might be worth it. Anyone using this as a simple backup strategy to DVD? mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From registrant at petmystone.com Fri Nov 21 18:09:04 2003 From: registrant at petmystone.com (Timothy Stone) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Starting a process as low level user... Message-ID: <80C0DA56-1C90-11D8-B0D0-00039375836C@petmystone.com> I have been devouring /Tomcat: TDG/ by Brittain and Darwin. I have regularly been using Tomcat for years, but some of the most basic security tips found in this book are valuable gems indeed. Such as installing Tomcat as a low- or non-privileged user like nobody. I know about the nobody user, starting Apache in this fashion however is handled for by the binary, first as root to bind to port 80, then as nobody for requests. The book actually provides some tips on getting Tomcat to behave in the "Apache" fashion, but I'm more directly interested in getting an install of Tomcat to start as nobody for development. Specifically I'll quote the book here... "First, switch to the user that you'd like to run Tomcat as. This will ensure that all of Tomcat's files will start out with the correct Unix file permissions. For security reasons, you sohuld probably run Tomcat as the nobody user or create a new tomcat user with similarly low privileges. We suggest settin that user's login shell to /bin/false and locking the user's password so that it can't be guessed." Okay, so I know the su - [username] -s [shell] command. But how do I log as a user without knowing or the user having a password? My best first guess is, su as root then: su -m nobody -s /bin/bash Thoughts? Okay, install Tomcat as said user. Now, how do I start Tomcat as said user? if I set default permissions say 760 (rwxr-x---) when I login as a administrative user... Much thanks in advance for answers and thoughts, Tim From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Fri Nov 21 18:31:23 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Classic used by multiple users with fast-user switching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0CD91361-1C92-11D8-98EA-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> > You're asking a hippo to rollerskate on honey. This is (if I'm taking the metaphor correctly), assuming that all Classic apps, run by *all* users, will use the same Classic Environment memory space. This would be a very bad idea indeed. Running multiple and independent Classic Environment (ClassicEnv) processes could solve this (I think), but might have some overhead used by routines that are used by all the ClassicEnv processes, but that aren't touched by anything running *in* the environment (I don't know how the Classic emulator is structured, so I don't know how much this could be true). But what if Classic (and other apps, for that matter), were written in a way so that multiple instances could be started which would be completely memory-protected from each other, preemptive, etc, and not be able to crash each other, and have (close to) the speed efficiencies of threads (as opposed to full processes). But common routines used by *all* these instances would be dynamically linked from a core process. Any globals used by these routines would be separate for each instance. In Windows, you have the option (I've heard) to have IE either start each web-page as a separate process or just a thread. Threads are quicker (and probably more memory efficient), but if one page causes IE to crash, all the pages crash. If each page is a separate process, this won't happen, but (I would think) that there would be redundant code between the processes. In the above scheme, if any of the instances did somehow cause part of the shared code in the core process to crash, the core would be restarted, and the dynamic links from all of the child instances would be re-instantiated. Now mind you all, I haven't taken operating systems yet in the CS sequence, so this may ideas may be nothing new.. I guess I'm just wondering what exactly it is that makes a full process less efficient than a thread, and why a thread that's part of a process can't be preserved somehow while the process itself is restarted if it crashes. Jim From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Fri Nov 21 18:36:39 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: MusicNet CEO: Tech giants will 'dominate' iTMS In-Reply-To: References: <05F0CEDE-1790-11D8-9903-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: >> Alan McGlade, CEO of MusicNet, said that the iTunes Music Store may >> be an early leader in the music download business, but others will >> soon be prominent. "The big companies are going to dominate," McGlade >> said. "AOL is going to be a significant player. Companies like Yahoo, >> MTV, Microsoft, Sony. I don't think it's going to be iTunes." > > We'll see what the European Commission has to say. I hope they do > something effective. It'll at least make things more interesting. I assume (I haven't read the whole thread) refers to anti-trust concerns. An interesting question then comes up in my mind: what happens if the EC decides to require compulsive licensing for the music companies, as the US does not seem too inclined to do. Given that music is a global business (after all, BMG Music is part of a German company), how does this affect the US market? Can the companies then claim that "Okay, since the EC says we have to, we will license to BMG, but only for sale in Europe." So BMG could sell music under compulsory license from EMI, but not in the US.. Can anyone say region-coding for CDs (or SACDs, or Super-CDs, or whatever..) Jim From cwilbur at mac.com Fri Nov 21 18:56:25 2003 From: cwilbur at mac.com (Charlton Wilbur) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Classic used by multiple users with fast-user switching In-Reply-To: <0CD91361-1C92-11D8-98EA-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> References: <0CD91361-1C92-11D8-98EA-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: On Nov 21, 2003, at 9:17 PM, Jim Witte wrote: > I guess I'm just wondering what exactly it is that makes a full > process less efficient than a thread, and why a thread that's part of > a process can't be preserved somehow while the process itself is > restarted if it crashes. The principal difference between a process and a thread is that processes do not share memory, while threads do. On some operating systems (Windows, for instance), the overhead involved in creating a thread is much less than the overhead involved in creating a process; in other operating systems (Linux, up to at least when I stopped paying attention to it), the overhead in creating a thread is the same, because threads are just processes with a library to handle shared memory. I don't know what Darwin/OSX does. In the traditional Unix model, to create a new process you call fork(). This causes the process's entire memory space to be duplicated. The parent process and the child process get different return values from the fork() call, and so they can tell who they are -- but all variables, for instance, are copied and not synchronized. Now, more recent Unix design uses copy-on-write: instead of the entire memory space being duplicated, both processes map to the same area of memory with a note that the first one to *change* a page of memory gets to duplicate it and keep that in its map instead of the original. But that's still a lot of bookkeeping to do. Threads use shared memory, so there's no overhead involved in either copying the memory or in keeping a record of what's mapped where. Instead, the overhead is in synchronizing the access to shared memory, so that two processes aren't simultaneously trying to modify the memory. Now, what causes a crash? Almost always, unauthorized memory location access, usually resulting in corrupt data somewhere. So if a process crashes, it dies; since it only has access to other processes' memory with their consent and through tightly controlled methods, the other processes' memory is safe. But because a thread has access to the memory of all the other threads in its group, if one thread dies none of the other threads in the group can be trusted to not be also corrupt. Charlton -- Charlton Wilbur cwilbur@chromatico.net cwilbur@mac.com From glennc at mac.com Fri Nov 21 19:18:05 2003 From: glennc at mac.com (Glenn Carnagey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: References: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F049A3451@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> Message-ID: <429E16FA-1C9A-11D8-BDC2-000393A7795C@mac.com> I'm pretty happy with it. One of the nice new features, if you have any boxes in the house without burners, is that other machines on the LAN can use your burner. Also (primitive but easy) backups and SVCDs. Improved interface, as well. g./ On Nov 21, 2003, at 2:17 PM, Fabien Roy wrote: > Just to keep them alive :-) > > Fabien > On Nov 21, 2003, at 9:33 AM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >> At 11:03 AM -0600 11/21/03, Guy Umbright wrote: >>> Cool! I thought it was just me. >>> >>> (OK, well not cool, it sucks actaully, but you get what I mean) >> >> I just upgraded to Toast 5.2.1 and it launched just fine. >> >> Has anyone got good things to say about Toast 6 and why it would be >> good to pay for the upgrade? >> >> mark >> >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- >> Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development >> >> Tyrell Software Corp >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-talk mailing list >> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >> > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From shawnce at mac.com Fri Nov 21 19:30:03 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Classic used by multiple users with fast-user switching In-Reply-To: <0CD91361-1C92-11D8-98EA-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> References: <0CD91361-1C92-11D8-98EA-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: <18791018-1C9C-11D8-A2BD-000A95A6C778@mac.com> (please don't cross post) On Nov 21, 2003, at 6:17 PM, Jim Witte wrote: >> You're asking a hippo to rollerskate on honey. > > This is (if I'm taking the metaphor correctly), assuming that all > Classic apps, run by *all* users, will use the same Classic > Environment memory space. This would be a very bad idea indeed. > Running multiple and independent Classic Environment (ClassicEnv) > processes could solve this (I think), but might have some overhead > used by routines that are used by all the ClassicEnv processes, but > that aren't touched by anything running *in* the environment (I don't > know how the Classic emulator is structured, so I don't know how much > this could be true). > > But what if Classic (and other apps, for that matter), were written > in a way so that multiple instances could be started which would be > completely memory-protected from each other, preemptive, etc, and not > be able to crash each other, and have (close to) the speed > efficiencies of threads (as opposed to full processes). But common > routines used by *all* these instances would be dynamically linked > from a core process. Any globals used by these routines would be > separate for each instance. For example this is what happens when a process/application uses a shared (dynamically linked) framework or library. Apple has even adding the ability for a Java virtual machine instances to share the same set of common core classes (ava.swing, java.awt, java.util, etc.), something that JVMs on other platforms don't allow for. Now in the case of Classic... it is a relatively huge process that consumes a large amount of RAM (for its data not just its code) and because of the cooperative scheduling model used in Mac OS (classic) it also burns a lot of CPU cycles even when applications in it are not being used. So having multiple ones of these running concurrently would heavily load the system. More importantly Mac OS (classic) isn't really designed as a multi user OS like Mac OS X is, so having multiple instances running at once would cause all kinds of conflicts for things like preference files, temp files, etc. It would be icky and then you have to consider the applications that would be used that are not multi user aware at all. > In Windows, you have the option (I've heard) to have IE either start > each web-page as a separate process or just a thread. Threads are > quicker (and probably more memory efficient), but if one page causes > IE to crash, all the pages crash. If each page is a separate process, > this won't happen, but (I would think) that there would be redundant > code between the processes. They would share the same code (at least in modern OSes). > In the above scheme, if any of the instances did somehow cause part of > the shared code in the core process to crash, the core would be > restarted, and the dynamic links from all of the child instances would > be re-instantiated. Process code and data are separate things. Code (the machine instructions of the program) can be shared across instances of a process or between different processes in the case of shared libraries. Each process has its own data and that is what is affected in the event of a crash (at least in the normal user mode "crash" case). > Now mind you all, I haven't taken operating systems yet in the CS > sequence, so this may ideas may be nothing new.. Nope nothing new but keep on exploring the ideas. > I guess I'm just wondering what exactly it is that makes a full > process less efficient than a thread, That generalization doesn't always hold water depending on what you mean by efficient. Processes are by definition more heavy weight then a thread. A process has its own virtual address space/heap, its own shared library/framwork mappings, its code mapped, open file table, etc. A thread lives inside of a process, its doesn't have its own virtual address space/heap, etc.. All it really has is a set of stack frames to track its code execution (its "thread" through the processes' code) and some additional information to help the schedular schedule the thread. So a thread consumes fewer system resources to exist then a process does, so in that way it is more efficient. > and why a thread that's part of a process can't be preserved somehow > while the process itself is restarted if it crashes. Processes don't execute code, the threads running "inside" of them do. So it is a thread that will hit the bug (or catastrophic resource issue) that causes the process to crash. So the above as worded doesn't make sense. Now other threads in the process could in theory continue running depending on the type of crash and how it affected the processes data. -Shawn From aa4lr at mac.com Fri Nov 21 19:37:08 2003 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn Message-ID: <20031122033419.PKDR1873.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.104]> On 11/14/03 1:48 PM, mmalcolm crawford at mmalc_lists@mac.com wrote: >That said, he also claims, "As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 >conference, Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther." >That I have rather more difficulty swallowing... At a fundamental level, Longhorn's architecture isn't terribly different from NeXTstep, and hence MacOS X. But it does have technically interesting aspects: * XAML. It plays the role that Display Postscript and .NIB files did in NeXTstep, and then some. * WinFS. It's not well defined, but the supplemental meta data abilities added to the file system make for extensible, custom relationships between files. * Development tools. This are very interesting, and also very scary. Microsoft has leaned all the way toward a totally proprietary programming environment. The tough part is, they've invested enough money so as to make it tremendously easy to write software. Of course, the resulting software makes one totally dependant on Microsoft. It's going to be hard for IT departments to economically justify development on other platforms. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Nov 21 20:13:05 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Classic used by multiple users with fast-user switching In-Reply-To: <18791018-1C9C-11D8-A2BD-000A95A6C778@mac.com> References: <0CD91361-1C92-11D8-98EA-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> <18791018-1C9C-11D8-A2BD-000A95A6C778@mac.com> Message-ID: <1A1D6336-1CA2-11D8-97BD-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 21, 2003, at 8:29 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > More importantly Mac OS (classic) isn't really designed as a multi > user OS like Mac OS X is, so having multiple instances running at once > would cause all kinds of conflicts for things like preference files, > temp files, etc. It would be icky and then you have to consider the > applications that would be used that are not multi user aware at all. I am not arguing for multiple instances of Classic with the following statement. The above only makes sense if they share a "System Folder". You could have two independent installations of Classic, theoretically, and that would allow, except for the heavy resource usage, of multiple Classic environments running at once in terms of the Classic environment. There may be some special support in OS X kernel or kexts or other OS X system level that would preclude it. Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Fri Nov 21 20:34:05 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Fwd: Delivery failure to ... Message-ID: <00D4FA76-1CA5-11D8-97BD-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> It looks like our buddy Peter has taken off... Can someone with the requisite authority please unsubscribe him... This is the second one of these today I've gotten. Thanks Chad Begin forwarded message: > From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" > Date: November 21, 2003 9:22:06 PM MST > To: > Subject: Delivery failure to ... > > When trying to deliver your message, the mail server at > netspeed.com.au encountered > problems with the following addresses: > > For , Site (netspeed.com.au) said: 550 5.1.1 > Unknown user. > > For a more detailed explanation see > http://netwinsite.com/surgemail/deliver_failed.htm > Reporting-MTA: dns; netspeed.com.au > > Final-Recipient: rfc822;selworks@netspeed.com.au > Action: failed > Status: 5.0.0 > Diagnostic-code smtp; Site (netspeed.com.au) said: 550 5.1.1 Unknown > user. > > From: "Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc." > Date: November 21, 2003 9:12:35 PM MST > To: Mac OS X-Talk > Subject: Re: Classic used by multiple users with fast-user switching > > > > On Nov 21, 2003, at 8:29 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > >> More importantly Mac OS (classic) isn't really designed as a multi >> user OS like Mac OS X is, so having multiple instances running at >> once would cause all kinds of conflicts for things like preference >> files, temp files, etc. It would be icky and then you have to >> consider the applications that would be used that are not multi user >> aware at all. > > I am not arguing for multiple instances of Classic with the following > statement. The above only makes sense if they share a "System > Folder". You could have two independent installations of Classic, > theoretically, and that would allow, except for the heavy resource > usage, of multiple Classic environments running at once in terms of > the Classic environment. There may be some special support in OS X > kernel or kexts or other OS X system level that would preclude it. > > Chad > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > From mjwise at kapu.net Fri Nov 21 21:20:04 2003 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Starting a process as low level user... In-Reply-To: <80C0DA56-1C90-11D8-B0D0-00039375836C@petmystone.com> References: <80C0DA56-1C90-11D8-B0D0-00039375836C@petmystone.com> Message-ID: <5AA750EC-1CAB-11D8-98B9-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> On Nov 21, 2003, at 4:06 PM, Timothy Stone wrote: > "First, switch to the user that you'd like to run Tomcat as. This will > ensure that all of Tomcat's files will start out with the correct Unix > file permissions. For security reasons, you sohuld probably run Tomcat > as the nobody user or create a new tomcat user with similarly low > privileges. I'd suggest creating a normal (non-Admin, non-Wheel) user, with a valid, secure password, and set it up from there. THEN, AFTER it's all set up and ready to roll... > and locking the user's password so that it can't be guessed." The arch-typical way to do that is to set the ENCRYPTED value of the password to a single asterisk ("*"). Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From mjwise at kapu.net Fri Nov 21 21:27:01 2003 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: 18-Hour Darwin security hackathon In-Reply-To: <01E08B69-1C77-11D8-8DFC-003065C4548E@mac.com> References: <01E08B69-1C77-11D8-8DFC-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 21, 2003, at 1:04 PM, Thomas Vincent wrote: > there is going to be a 18 hour hacking of the Darwin kernel adding new > security features to Darwin. A request: Real Time extensions. I hate it when iTunes stutters when I check my mail. >8-) And it does. (8-) Cue, "When I login to check my mail, it measures on the richter scale..." A multimedia OS should have a Real Time component to it so that certain apps can GUARANTEE that they always get at least X amount of the CPU during a given slice o time. Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Fri Nov 21 21:41:01 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: 18-Hour Darwin security hackathon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 11/21/03 9:22 PM, "Michael J Wise" wrote: > On Nov 21, 2003, at 1:04 PM, Thomas Vincent wrote: > >> there is going to be a 18 hour hacking of the Darwin kernel adding new >> security features to Darwin. > > A request: Real Time extensions. > > I hate it when iTunes stutters when I check my mail. Didn't they add that in Panther? Or, was it Jaguar? Maybe the problem is just that iTunes doesn't take advantage of it. I only seem to get stuttering when I have serious paging going on for some reason. Dan From mjwise at kapu.net Fri Nov 21 21:56:35 2003 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: 18-Hour Darwin security hackathon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 21, 2003, at 7:40 PM, Dan Crevier wrote: > On 11/21/03 9:22 PM, "Michael J Wise" wrote: >> On Nov 21, 2003, at 1:04 PM, Thomas Vincent wrote: >>> there is going to be a 18 hour hacking of the Darwin kernel adding >>> new >>> security features to Darwin. >> >> A request: Real Time extensions. >> I hate it when iTunes stutters when I check my mail. > > Didn't they add that in Panther? The stuttering I am seeing started with the installation of iTunes 4.1 under Jaguar; it wasn't there before. It wasn't solved when I upgraded to Panther. > I only seem to get stuttering when I have serious paging going on for > some reason. I have IMAP mailboxen with multiple thousands of emails. I've ... grown accustom to it. Just wish the volume would stay constant, and not get turned WAY down after that happens. Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Fri Nov 21 22:15:29 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: 18-Hour Darwin security hackathon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 11/21/03 9:51 PM, "Michael J Wise" wrote: > On Nov 21, 2003, at 7:40 PM, Dan Crevier wrote: >> On 11/21/03 9:22 PM, "Michael J Wise" wrote: >>> On Nov 21, 2003, at 1:04 PM, Thomas Vincent wrote: >>>> there is going to be a 18 hour hacking of the Darwin kernel adding >>>> new >>>> security features to Darwin. >>> >>> A request: Real Time extensions. >>> I hate it when iTunes stutters when I check my mail. >> >> Didn't they add that in Panther? > > The stuttering I am seeing started with the installation of iTunes 4.1 > under Jaguar; > it wasn't there before. > > It wasn't solved when I upgraded to Panther. As I mentioned, the problem may be that iTunes doesn't take advantage of the real-time capabilities of darwin, not that darwin doesn't have real time capabilities. Dan From cwilbur at mac.com Fri Nov 21 22:42:03 2003 From: cwilbur at mac.com (Charlton Wilbur) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Classic used by multiple users with fast-user switching In-Reply-To: <6492F152-1CB4-11D8-9D59-000393CC5A10@mac.com> References: <6492F152-1CB4-11D8-9D59-000393CC5A10@mac.com> Message-ID: <6CD12788-1CB6-11D8-95CB-000A9573CF20@mac.com> On Nov 22, 2003, at 1:23 AM, Creed Erickson wrote: > From the Mac OS X/Darwin perspective: Thank you for this. My knowledge of threads and processes is a little bit theoretical and a little bit behind the times. >> Threads use shared memory, so there's no overhead involved in either >> copying the memory or in keeping a record of what's mapped where. >> Instead, the overhead is in synchronizing the access to shared >> memory, so that two processes aren't simultaneously trying to modify >> the memory. > > Well, that's a startup efficiency. I believe there is also something > gained in threads sharing the same resource container (AKA process). Well, yes - provided that more than one thread needs access to the same resources. In the classic Unix process model (which, based on your explanation, is the same as the OSX model with the constraint of one thread per process), if two processes need access to the same data, they need to use some sort of explicitly shared memory or system message queue to communicate. This needs to happen in kernel space rather than in user space, and so is very expensive in terms of resources. So, if two threads need access to the same resource, it's much better for them to be in the same process, because then they avoid the overhead of interprocess communication. But if they don't need access to the same resource, then there's no benefit to be had from using threads in the same process rather than threads in separate processes. Now, it's the job of the operating system to coordinate shared system resources, such as disk - I'm not sure what the difference is between two threads in different processes accessing the disk and two threads in the same process accessing the disk. I would imagine that the whole thing is handled by a virtualization layer that allows the kernel to serialize disk access somehow, and so there would be little net benefit -- but I'm speaking hypothetically, and don't know OSX internals well enough to know how close to the truth I am. Charlton -- Charlton Wilbur cwilbur@chromatico.net cwilbur@mac.com From mmalc_lists at mac.com Sat Nov 22 00:32:00 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <20031122033419.PKDR1873.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.104]> References: <20031122033419.PKDR1873.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.104]> Message-ID: <37F1D197-1CC6-11D8-9BCC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 21, 2003, at 5:34 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: > On 11/14/03 1:48 PM, mmalcolm crawford at mmalc_lists@mac.com wrote: > >> That said, he also claims, "As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 >> conference, Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther." >> That I have rather more difficulty swallowing... > At a fundamental level, Longhorn's architecture isn't terribly > different > from NeXTstep, and hence MacOS X. But it does have technically > interesting aspects: > Oh, I'm sure it does have "interesting" aspects, but "far more impressive technically"? I asked Jason about this, but he didn't seem to have any more details. > * XAML. It plays the role that Display Postscript and .NIB files did in > NeXTstep, and then some. > Please elaborate. I will note that NIB files have been working very well for over a decade now, and the whole system has been recently significantly enhanced by the new controller layer. DPS has of course been supplanted by "DPDF", or Quartz, which has a range of features not present in the former... I'm also not quite sure what you mean by suggesting it takes the role of both the display server and an object archival format? > * WinFS. It's not well defined, but the supplemental meta data > abilities > added to the file system make for extensible, custom relationships > between files. > I'm not sure how "not well defined" translates into "far more impressive technically"? > * Development tools. This are very interesting, and also very scary. > Microsoft has leaned all the way toward a totally proprietary > programming > environment. The tough part is, they've invested enough money so as to > make it tremendously easy to write software. Of course, the resulting > software makes one totally dependant on Microsoft. It's going to be > hard > for IT departments to economically justify development on other > platforms. > Again, more details would be welcome. Apple has started to accelerate in this area again. If the system is well-architected -- such that the UI can be readily abstracted from the core logic -- it would make it easier to port code... mmalc From surajrai at mac.com Sat Nov 22 02:58:02 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Toast 5.13 In-Reply-To: <429E16FA-1C9A-11D8-BDC2-000393A7795C@mac.com> References: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F049A3451@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> <429E16FA-1C9A-11D8-BDC2-000393A7795C@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 22, 2003, at 12:16 PM, Glenn Carnagey wrote: > I'm pretty happy with it. One of the nice new features, if you have > any boxes in the house without burners, is that other machines on the > LAN can use your burner. Also (primitive but easy) backups and SVCDs. > Improved interface, as well. Has anybody actually used the burning over the LAN feature? Any thoughts as to performance issues, speed etc? Thanks, S.r. From joar at joar.com Sat Nov 22 03:45:01 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: 18-Hour Darwin security hackathon In-Reply-To: References: <01E08B69-1C77-11D8-8DFC-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <3B7E90C0-1CE1-11D8-85F3-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Mac OS X already has a reasonable implementation of close-to-real-time scheduling. AFAIK. Care should be taken to use these features only when needed. It is nice if playing back media files is done without stutter, but it is not a typical example of where real-time behaviour is really needed. The reverse process, rendering media content to some device that requires you to feed it with data continously at a fixed rate, is a much better example of a process that you wold like to ensure were allowed to always run. What type of machine do you have? What version of the OS? j o a r On 2003-11-22, at 06.22, Michael J Wise wrote: > A multimedia OS should have a Real Time component to it so that > certain apps can GUARANTEE that they always get at least X amount of > the CPU during a given slice o time. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sat Nov 22 03:51:07 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: 18-Hour Darwin security hackathon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > As I mentioned, the problem may be that iTunes doesn't take advantage > of the > real-time capabilities of darwin, not that darwin doesn't have real > time > capabilities. FWIW, I have only experienced iTunes stuttering while using USB speakers and making heavy use of my Airport connection and/or heavy use of FireWire. Weird stuff happening there. Haven't tried it yet with the dual g5. j. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sat Nov 22 03:58:11 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: 18-Hour Darwin security hackathon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> I only seem to get stuttering when I have serious paging going on for >> some reason. > > I have IMAP mailboxen with multiple thousands of emails. > I've ... grown accustom to it. BTW, just was thinking about this. What I heard is similar to stuttering, but it's more like an audio problem, not a processing problem. I have never had real stuttering (iTunes not being able to deliver the song in real time) caused by other applications or services' use of the processor, but I have had my speakers not being able to deliver the sound while using other connections heavily. Does this make sense at all? :-P Bah, I just waked up and it has been a looooong night. j. From macosx at wooz.org Sat Nov 22 04:58:02 2003 From: macosx at wooz.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: 18-Hour Darwin security hackathon In-Reply-To: <01E08B69-1C77-11D8-8DFC-003065C4548E@mac.com> References: <01E08B69-1C77-11D8-8DFC-003065C4548E@mac.com> Message-ID: <1069505827.2383.169.camel@anthem> On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 18:04, Thomas Vincent wrote: > If anyone is going to be in the Washington D.C. area near GWU. Tuesday, > December 2-3, 2003 there is going to be a 18 hour hacking of the Darwin > kernel adding new security features to Darwin. It is going to be run by > John Viega. It is free of course. It starts on 10 am Tuesday, and ends > at 4 am on Wed . Wow cool. I know John personally (he was the original GNU Mailman inventor) and I'm sure this is going to be an awesome event. I might try to swing down there after work on Tuesday. -Barry From shawnce at mac.com Sat Nov 22 09:03:02 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: 18-Hour Darwin security hackathon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 22, 2003, at 3:56 AM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: >>> I only seem to get stuttering when I have serious paging going on >>> for some reason. >> >> I have IMAP mailboxen with multiple thousands of emails. >> I've ... grown accustom to it. > > BTW, just was thinking about this. What I heard is similar to > stuttering, but it's more like an audio problem, not a processing > problem. > > I have never had real stuttering (iTunes not being able to deliver the > song in real time) caused by other applications or services' use of > the processor, but I have had my speakers not being able to deliver > the sound while using other connections heavily. > > Does this make sense at all? :-P Yes. The BSD side of the Mac OS X kernel is minimally threaded because in general BSD hasn't been a multithreaded (concurrent) kernel historically. Apple has created what they call funnels which are a synchronization construct that allows multiple threads to be run in the BSD part of the kernel with some level of concurrency. Currently (unless if changed in Panther) two funnels exist one for network and one for everything else (I am mostly an IOKit guy so my statement could be a little imprecise). Side note the IOKit side of the kernel allows for excellent threading capabilities. USB is generally supported by the IOKit side of things but it likely at certain levels has to interact with the BSD side of things or the applications driving/using the USB does. Anyway... because of the relatively few funnels currently supported and the domains of kernel functionality they cover you can, under heavy load conditions, result in the starving of a process because of funnel, resource, IO contention. Likely many pathways exist that could cause what is reported (and not all are related to funnels). Apple has stated that they are working on increasing the threading ability in the BSD side of the kernel to improve overall system efficient. Adding funnels that cover smaller domains in will help as will more efficient usage of the funnels by the code and most importantly improvements in the scheduler (addition of priority inheritance, etc.). Mac OS X does support real-time thread scheduling but it is tricky to do (getting priority inheritance in place would help make it a little easier). Also, as others have stated, real-time threads should generally be avoided unless absolutely needed because they have the ability to adversely affect the performance of the OS and unrelated applications. On my dual G5 I only have iTunes slightly stutter when going in and out of screen sleep. I can pull all kinds of data over the network link and to/from disks without any issues, at least none that I have detected yet. -Shawn From shawnce at mac.com Sat Nov 22 09:19:23 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:33 2005 Subject: Fwd: Classic used by multiple users with fast-user switching Message-ID: This message didn't make it to Mac OS Talk because of the evils of cross posting... so folks don't miss a well worded description (much better then mine) I forwarded it. Begin forwarded message: > From: Creed Erickson > Date: November 21, 2003 10:23:31 PM PST > To: Charlton Wilbur > Cc: Jim Witte , Mac OS X-Talk > , macosx-dev@omnigroup.com > Subject: Re: Classic used by multiple users with fast-user switching > > > On Friday, November 21, 2003, at 06:52 PM, Charlton Wilbur wrote: > >> >> On Nov 21, 2003, at 9:17 PM, Jim Witte wrote: >> >>> I guess I'm just wondering what exactly it is that makes a full >>> process less efficient than a thread, and why a thread that's part >>> of a process can't be preserved somehow while the process itself is >>> restarted if it crashes. >> >> The principal difference between a process and a thread is that >> processes do not share memory, while threads do. On some operating >> systems (Windows, for instance), the overhead involved in creating a >> thread is much less than the overhead involved in creating a process; >> in other operating systems (Linux, up to at least when I stopped >> paying attention to it), the overhead in creating a thread is the >> same, because threads are just processes with a library to handle >> shared memory. I don't know what Darwin/OSX does. > > From the Mac OS X/Darwin perspective: > > Processes are resource containers. They describe resources > owned/allocated, e.g. VM resources, file system resources, network > socket resources, etc. Processes are not a unit of execution, are not > scheduled, and perform no work, per se. > > Threads are units of execution, they have register context and are > scheduled. Threads are where the work is done. Every process has at > least one thread. When the last thread of a process exits, the > containing process is dismantled. Unlike many other systems, Mac OS X > threads are true kernel threads, each one being scheduled directly by > the kernel rather than by some bolted-on threading library or > supervisor. (Which does not invalidate these other threading systems > at all, by the way.) > > [...] > >> Threads use shared memory, so there's no overhead involved in either >> copying the memory or in keeping a record of what's mapped where. >> Instead, the overhead is in synchronizing the access to shared >> memory, so that two processes aren't simultaneously trying to modify >> the memory. > > Well, that's a startup efficiency. I believe there is also something > gained in threads sharing the same resource container (AKA process). > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-dev mailing list > MacOSX-dev@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-dev > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1706 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031122/97bd8707/attachment.bin From mjwise at kapu.net Sat Nov 22 09:44:02 2003 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: 18-Hour Darwin security hackathon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6CFE79C6-1D13-11D8-8A10-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> On Nov 22, 2003, at 1:49 AM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > FWIW, I have only experienced iTunes stuttering while using USB > speakers ... Check. > and making heavy use of my Airport connection ... Check. Of late, the machine READING the email is my Titanium G4 400MHz.... Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From mjwise at kapu.net Sat Nov 22 09:51:01 2003 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: 18-Hour Darwin security hackathon (Modified by Michael J Wise) Message-ID: <860C2E2A-1D13-11D8-8A10-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> [Ooops. Really do need to put in those Reply-To: headers at delivery time...] On Nov 22, 2003, at 1:44 AM, j o a r wrote: > What type of machine do you have? PowerMac G4 Cube, 500 MHz. > What version of the OS? Panther (10.2.1) The mail server is Courier IMAP 2.2.0 (MUCH fun getting that working; final clue was `man getpwnam`). But the problem STARTED manifesting itself around about the time that iTunes 4.1 came out. Dunno. Other people see similar problems. But it seemeth to me that iTunes should be able to say to the OS, "Look, the Console sez, Play Tunes. Don't care what else you need to do, I need this big a chunk of time every so often guaranteed, and if I finish early, I'll let you know..." And as you say, that capability may already exist, but it seems that iTunes doesn't use it, or ... isn't as greedy as it should be. BTW, the Stuttering I can live with. It's when the sound level suddenly drops down to almost inaudible and continues that way that really ticks me off. Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From mjwise at kapu.net Sat Nov 22 10:00:03 2003 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Don't you just HATE it when that happens...Re: Delivery failure to ... In-Reply-To: <1069523576_74711@mailhost.netspeed.com.au> References: <1069523576_74711@mailhost.netspeed.com.au> Message-ID: <9664FAFE-1D15-11D8-8A10-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> Yo, omnigroup, cleanup on Isle 822.... (;-) [Funny, I don't RECALL sending the email to that address, so why do *I* get the bounce?] Then there was the guy last night (and others, elsewhere, previously) who sent me a challenge because I posted to a new mailinglist. Free Clue: Whitelist list traffic.... On Nov 22, 2003, at 7:52 AM, Mail Delivery Subsystem wrote: > When trying to deliver your message, the mail server at > netspeed.com.au encountered > problems with the following addresses: > > For , Site (netspeed.com.au) said: 550 5.1.1 > Unknown user. > > For a more detailed explanation see > http://netwinsite.com/surgemail/deliver_failed.htm > Reporting-MTA: dns; netspeed.com.au > > Final-Recipient: rfc822;selworks@netspeed.com.au > Action: failed > Status: 5.0.0 > Diagnostic-code smtp; Site (netspeed.com.au) said: 550 5.1.1 Unknown > user. > > From: Michael J Wise > Date: November 22, 2003 7:43:47 AM HST > To: Mac OS X Talk > Subject: Re: 18-Hour Darwin security hackathon Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From shawnce at mac.com Sat Nov 22 10:13:05 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: 18-Hour Darwin security hackathon In-Reply-To: <6CFE79C6-1D13-11D8-8A10-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> References: <6CFE79C6-1D13-11D8-8A10-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> Message-ID: <0A91BF66-1D16-11D8-A2BD-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Nov 22, 2003, at 9:43 AM, Michael J Wise wrote: > On Nov 22, 2003, at 1:49 AM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > >> FWIW, I have only experienced iTunes stuttering while using USB >> speakers ... > > Check. Just for clarity on my G5 I am using USB speakers as well. I should try out of the optical audio out to see if it suffers from the stutter I hear (again only when waking from screen sleep). -Shawn From registrant at petmystone.com Sun Nov 23 06:38:03 2003 From: registrant at petmystone.com (Timothy Stone) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Starting a process as low level user... In-Reply-To: <5AA750EC-1CAB-11D8-98B9-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> References: <80C0DA56-1C90-11D8-B0D0-00039375836C@petmystone.com> <5AA750EC-1CAB-11D8-98B9-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> Message-ID: <96A92B02-1DC2-11D8-8602-00039375836C@petmystone.com> On Nov 22, 2003, at 12:18 AM, Michael J Wise wrote: > On Nov 21, 2003, at 4:06 PM, Timothy Stone wrote: > >> "First, switch to the user that you'd like to run Tomcat as. This >> will ensure that all of Tomcat's files will start out with the >> correct Unix file permissions. For security reasons, you sohuld >> probably run Tomcat as the nobody user or create a new tomcat user >> with similarly low privileges. > > I'd suggest creating a normal (non-Admin, non-Wheel) user, with a > valid, secure password, and set it up from there. THEN, AFTER it's all > set up and ready to roll... >> and locking the user's password so that it can't be guessed." > > The arch-typical way to do that is to set the ENCRYPTED value of the > password to a single asterisk ("*"). Ahhh...yes. Thought of this. I think my original post may have been somewhat confusing in my goal What I'm ultimately after is a way to have a process start as nobody on boot. StartupsItems currently available, such as Apache or MySQL, do this via their binaries. It doesn't seem possible in the OS documentation for others. Maybe someone out there is doing it. For example I would like to add a startup script to /Library/StartupItems, i.e. /Library/StartupItems/Tomcat/Tomcat. Now, granted I could investigate the commons-daemon work in Jakarta, but I'm trying to avoid outside assistance. OpenBSD (the undisputed secure OS) has facilities to do this via the init.d scripting facility and su, an example is given in /TC:TDG/ page 29. An example of starting a process as nobody in Mac OS X at boot would be most welcome. Much thanks in advance! Tim From mjwise at kapu.net Sun Nov 23 09:08:08 2003 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Starting a process as low level user... In-Reply-To: <96A92B02-1DC2-11D8-8602-00039375836C@petmystone.com> References: <80C0DA56-1C90-11D8-B0D0-00039375836C@petmystone.com> <5AA750EC-1CAB-11D8-98B9-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> <96A92B02-1DC2-11D8-8602-00039375836C@petmystone.com> Message-ID: <72F9F6FC-1DD7-11D8-A54C-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> On Nov 23, 2003, at 4:37 AM, Timothy Stone wrote: > What I'm ultimately after is a way to have a process start as nobody > on boot. Keep in mind that this may not be that kewl an idea. After all, it will then own, or at least have access to, all the files owner by 'Nobody'. This may not be what was intended by people who set that user as the owner of certain files. > StartupsItems currently available, such as Apache or MySQL, do this > via their binaries. They initially run as root, so they can do anything they want. And BTW, Apache runs one task as root, and the rest as user www. And I'm pretty sure that MySQL does the same thing. > It doesn't seem possible in the OS documentation for others. Against my better judgement.... % man su > Maybe someone out there is doing it. I hope not. It's a bad idea. Create a user specifically for the task in question, and run the code as that user via su. Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From dwa2 at eng.buffalo.edu Sun Nov 23 12:46:03 2003 From: dwa2 at eng.buffalo.edu (David W Aquilina) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Samsung 955DF, ViewSonic A90f+ monitors Message-ID: <20031123204554.GB25081@eng.buffalo.edu> Greetings, Is anyone out there using either a Samsung 955DF or a ViewSonic A90f+ with Panther? Currently I'm using a ViewSonic A75f; due to a change in Panther regarding how "acceptable" display resolutions are determined I'm no longer able to use my preferred resolution on this monitor, which is 1152x870 @ 75Hz. (Strangely enough, the A75s that's connected to the second head is unaffected.) I'm considering buying one of the above two monitors, but I'd like to make sure that I won't be bitten by the same bug again. If anyone is using one of the above monitors, I'd love to know the couple highest resolutions available to you and their refresh rates, as well as the highest resolution you're able to use at a refresh rate of 75Hz or above. Thanks in advance. -- David Aquilina dwa2@eng.buffalo.edu From mmalc_lists at mac.com Sun Nov 23 15:31:29 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Cupertino (Was Re: MacWorld SF -talk/-nutters + BaNG?) In-Reply-To: <3647A8A8-1B5A-11D8-88EB-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <50C4BCF0-1932-11D8-BA71-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> <382E558A-1A5B-11D8-AF47-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <892EE088-1A5E-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <1E9E2522-1A6D-11D8-B1BB-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <4CF8910C-1AD1-11D8-BFFC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> <3647A8A8-1B5A-11D8-88EB-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <6B0B42AC-1E07-11D8-9C4F-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 20, 2003, at 3:05 AM, Lukreme wrote: > On one of my many trips to the Bay my wife and I drove from Walnut > Creek down the East Bay and hit the various missions on the way to > Cupertino. The story was, we were going to see missions. The truth > was, I was on a mission. > Having just read "The da Vinci Code": "You don't find the Grail, the Grail finds you." Didn't know it was there, walked past it "by accident". Pretty, though. mmalc From treaves at silverfieldstech.com Sun Nov 23 15:42:55 2003 From: treaves at silverfieldstech.com (T Reaves) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: iTunes command line? Message-ID: <04756BBD-1E0B-11D8-9DB9-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com> Is there a command line utility for editing the tags of iTunes files? I imported a bunch of my MP3's from my linux box, and not all my ID3s were intact. For some incredibly stupid reason, editing - changing - some of the info in iTunes itself takes upwards of 6 seconds, and this is on my dual G5 with 3 gig memory, and I have a dedicated SATA 160GB just for my music! I have a radio program I download, and I have more than 600 one hour programs recorded. To edit the song name, the artist, the album, and the genre - in itunes - would take several hours! So is there a way to bulk change some of these attributes? Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2385 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031123/35029b07/smime.bin From sstevenson at mac.com Sun Nov 23 16:07:20 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: iTunes command line? In-Reply-To: <04756BBD-1E0B-11D8-9DB9-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com> References: <04756BBD-1E0B-11D8-9DB9-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: <0D0DE8D9-1E11-11D8-B910-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 23, 2003, at 3:16 PM, T Reaves wrote: > Is there a command line utility for editing the tags of iTunes files? > I imported a bunch of my MP3's from my linux box, and not all my ID3s > were intact. For some incredibly stupid reason, editing - changing - > some of the info in iTunes itself takes upwards of 6 seconds, and this > is on my dual G5 with 3 gig memory, and I have a dedicated SATA 160GB > just for my music! > > I have a radio program I download, and I have more than 600 one hour > programs recorded. To edit the song name, the artist, the album, and > the genre - in itunes - would take several hours! So is there a way > to bulk change some of these attributes? I don't know about CLI, but you might take a look at this: http://www.chaoticsoftware.com/ProductPages/MP3Rage.html - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From oogje at mac.com Sun Nov 23 16:29:09 2003 From: oogje at mac.com (Brian Redman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: iTunes command line? In-Reply-To: <04756BBD-1E0B-11D8-9DB9-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com> References: <04756BBD-1E0B-11D8-9DB9-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com> Message-ID: On Nov 24, 2003, at 12:16 AM, T Reaves wrote: > Is there a command line utility for editing the tags of iTunes files? Check out . You'll need to build it and also as outlined in the id3v2 INSTALL file but they both built and ran flawlessly for me recently on 10.3. Am assuming you have the dev tools installed. ber From registrant at petmystone.com Sun Nov 23 16:37:45 2003 From: registrant at petmystone.com (Timothy Stone) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Starting a process as low level user... In-Reply-To: <72F9F6FC-1DD7-11D8-A54C-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> References: <80C0DA56-1C90-11D8-B0D0-00039375836C@petmystone.com> <5AA750EC-1CAB-11D8-98B9-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> <96A92B02-1DC2-11D8-8602-00039375836C@petmystone.com> <72F9F6FC-1DD7-11D8-A54C-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> Message-ID: <6C4E30DA-1E15-11D8-8DCF-00039375836C@petmystone.com> On Nov 23, 2003, at 12:06 PM, Michael J Wise wrote: > On Nov 23, 2003, at 4:37 AM, Timothy Stone wrote: > >> What I'm ultimately after is a way to have a process start as nobody >> on boot. > > Keep in mind that this may not be that kewl an idea. > After all, it will then own, or at least have access to, all the files > owner by 'Nobody'. > This may not be what was intended by people who set that user as the > owner of certain files. > >> StartupsItems currently available, such as Apache or MySQL, do this >> via their binaries. > > They initially run as root, so they can do anything they want. > And BTW, Apache runs one task as root, and the rest as user www. > And I'm pretty sure that MySQL does the same thing. > >> It doesn't seem possible in the OS documentation for others. > > Against my better judgement.... > > % man su > >> Maybe someone out there is doing it. > > I hope not. > It's a bad idea. > > Create a user specifically for the task in question, and run the code > as that user via su. I have somehow confused my goal... I am aware of how Apache, MySQL and other processes start and execute requests. For example, as cited, Apache starts as root to bind to the privileged port 80, then executes all requests and responses as the user defined in its configuration file. Tomcat can do this "out-of-the-box" because it runs in the JVM. My goal, boiled down as simply as I know how to state it: Create a Mac OS X Startup script in /Library/StartupItems to start Tomcat as a non privileged user, be that user nobody or another low-privileged user created for this task. My problem is that documentation provided by Apple for such startup scripts /Library/StartupItems execute as root. I'm cool with this as I have proved that such scripts execute processes as root and keep root. Not my, or manys, idea of a best practice. I cited that in /Tomcat: The Definitive Guide/ on page 29 the authors show a startup script for OpenBSD for Tomcat: if [ -x /usr/local/sbin/tomcat ]; then echo -n ' tomcat' (export CATALINA_HOME=/path/to/tomcat/root export JAVA_HOME=/path/to/java/root exec /usr/bin/su www ${CATALINA_HOME}/bin/startup.sh ) fi So, take this idea, apply it to the Mac OS X. If: % ls -ld /Applications/Tomcat/bin/startup.sh -rwxr-x--- 1 tomcat tomcat 788 27 Oct 10:26 /Applications/Tomcat/bin/startup.sh How can I get tomcat to own the process following completion of startup? Is it really just a matter of stating a similar line as shown in the OpenBSD script? I hope I have cleared up my goals. I sincerely apologize for any confusion I have caused. Warmest Regards and Sincerest Thanks for all the help. Tim From registrant at petmystone.com Sun Nov 23 16:46:19 2003 From: registrant at petmystone.com (Timothy Stone) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Starting a process as low level user... In-Reply-To: <7B765479-1E14-11D8-8DCF-00039375836C@petmystone.com> References: <80C0DA56-1C90-11D8-B0D0-00039375836C@petmystone.com> <5AA750EC-1CAB-11D8-98B9-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> <96A92B02-1DC2-11D8-8602-00039375836C@petmystone.com> <72F9F6FC-1DD7-11D8-A54C-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> <7B765479-1E14-11D8-8DCF-00039375836C@petmystone.com> Message-ID: <8023F0AA-1E15-11D8-8DCF-00039375836C@petmystone.com> OPPS... On Nov 23, 2003, at 7:23 PM, Timothy Stone wrote: > ...Tomcat *CANNOT* do this "out-of-the-box" because it runs in the > JVM. From mjwise at kapu.net Sun Nov 23 16:59:01 2003 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Starting a process as low level user... In-Reply-To: <6C4E30DA-1E15-11D8-8DCF-00039375836C@petmystone.com> References: <80C0DA56-1C90-11D8-B0D0-00039375836C@petmystone.com> <5AA750EC-1CAB-11D8-98B9-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> <96A92B02-1DC2-11D8-8602-00039375836C@petmystone.com> <72F9F6FC-1DD7-11D8-A54C-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> <6C4E30DA-1E15-11D8-8DCF-00039375836C@petmystone.com> Message-ID: <4570F236-1E19-11D8-9E61-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> On Nov 23, 2003, at 2:30 PM, Timothy Stone wrote: > if [ -x /usr/local/sbin/tomcat ]; then > echo -n ' tomcat' > (export CATALINA_HOME=/path/to/tomcat/root > export JAVA_HOME=/path/to/java/root > exec /usr/bin/su www ${CATALINA_HOME}/bin/startup.sh That's the command, right there. /usr/bin/su switches the process to user 'www' and runs the script. > ) > fi > > So, take this idea, apply it to the Mac OS X. Yes, you'll need to read the howto on setting up stuffs in /Library/StartupItems on the Developer site. Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From aa4lr at mac.com Sun Nov 23 17:13:06 2003 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off Message-ID: <20031124005928.MHGE1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> On 11/6/03 7:00 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. at chad@objectwerks.com wrote: >Proof of the fact that Rhapsody was a product that had an eponymous >Strategy and not the other way around. > >Was Copland a product or a strategy? Yes. Copland was a product, which was named MacOS 8. It followed a strategy, which lacking any other name could be called the Copland strategy. Although this strategy also included in its roadmap an eventual goal of Gershwin, a product for which there never was any real development. >Was Sonata a product or a strategy? Product. >Were any of the other OS releases with musical code names products or >strategies? Products. >Is Panther a product or a strategy? >Is Jaguar a product or Strategy? Product. >Was BHA a product or strategy? Product. >Hint: They were all products Sort-of. I think you all are confusing strategy and tactics. The products were the realization (tactics) of an overall strategy. The products likely had names, the strategies did not. It makes sense to name the strategy after its initiating product. The Rhapsody strategy included other product which weren't part of Rhapsody, per se -- such as the Yellow Box for Windows. >If all of Apple's other codenames represented products, including the >like-named musical ones like Copland and Sonata, why would Rhapsody be >any different? Because it was the first step in a larger strategy. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From aa4lr at mac.com Sun Nov 23 17:20:31 2003 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off Message-ID: <20031124005935.MHGT1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> On 11/10/03 11:51 PM, mmalcolm crawford at mmalc_lists@mac.com wrote: >On Nov 9, 2003, at 11:05 AM, The Amazing Llama wrote: > >> Carbon: >> A C library that traces its roots back to Classic, through System 7 >> to a Pascal library called "the toolbox" that has been used since the >> first Mac, when Andy Hertzfeld and Bill Atkinson wrote it. This is >> unarguably the toughest part to port, as it has no history of running >> anywhere but Mac processors. > >Actually, it does have some history -- Star Trek... Star Trek is a fable. How about MAE -- the Mac Toolbox running on various flavors of Unix? Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From steve at paper-ape.com Sun Nov 23 17:27:19 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: iTunes command line? In-Reply-To: <04756BBD-1E0B-11D8-9DB9-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com > References: <04756BBD-1E0B-11D8-9DB9-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com > Message-ID: at 20031123, 18:16 -0500, they whom i call T Reaves wrote: > Is there a command line utility for editing the tags of iTunes files? there are assorted tools, such as libraries you can use with perl, etc.. be aware not all of them use the latest tags versions > I imported a bunch of my MP3's from my linux box, and not all my >ID3s were intact. For some incredibly stupid reason, editing - >changing - some of the info in iTunes itself takes upwards of 6 >seconds, probably because (as you said) your tracks are quite long and the tags are at the beginning of the file -- changing the tags, particularly if you make the tags longer, often causes a delay as the whole file has to be rewritten.. i doubt iTunes is the fastest, but anything will be slow in those circumstances.. it's also pretty easy to automate iTunes tag with AppleScript, and some bulk manipulations are easy with just a multiple-select and cmd-i -- steve harley From treaves at silverfieldstech.com Sun Nov 23 17:33:44 2003 From: treaves at silverfieldstech.com (T Reaves) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: iTunes command line? In-Reply-To: References: <04756BBD-1E0B-11D8-9DB9-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com > Message-ID: <8757EE0C-1E1C-11D8-9DB9-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com> On Nov 23, 2003, at 8:13 PM, steve harley wrote: > --snip-- > probably because (as you said) your tracks are quite long > and the tags are at the beginning of the file -- changing > the tags, particularly if you make the tags longer, often > causes a delay as the whole file has to be rewritten.. i > doubt iTunes is the fastest, but anything will be slow in > those circumstances.. it's also pretty easy to automate > iTunes tag with AppleScript, and some bulk manipulations are > easy with just a multiple-select and cmd-i > I did not know about cmd-i. Thanks! Is there a repository for AppleScript scripts out there that I could look at for example code? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2385 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031123/d97c1f57/smime.bin From aa4lr at mac.com Sun Nov 23 17:58:02 2003 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Panther - Network browsing broken? Message-ID: <20031124015736.XETN2005.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> OK, I'm using Panther on my 12" AlBook. I'm running Jaguar on my Sawtooth. When I try to connect to the disk drive on the Sawtooth over AirPort, I can't see the machine. I bring up Connect To Server in the Finder, click the Browse button, but nothing happens. No window, no nothing. If I guess the network number of the Sawtooth box, I can connect. But I can't browse to it. Having used the Mac from back in the days when Apple introduced file networking using the Chooser, this seems like a giant leap backwards -- I have to know the network name or address of a server a priori in order to connect? It wasn't like this with Jaguar on the AlBook. I could browse right in. What gives? Do I somehow have a bad install? Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From dave at difference.com.au Sun Nov 23 18:27:44 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031124005928.MHGE1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> References: <20031124005928.MHGE1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: At 7:59 PM -0500 23/11/03, Bill Coleman wrote: >On 11/6/03 7:00 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. at >chad@objectwerks.com wrote: > >>Proof of the fact that Rhapsody was a product that had an eponymous >>Strategy and not the other way around. >> I still say that this line of argument founders because there was more than one product named Rhapsody, even if only one of them ever shipped. > >Was Copland a product or a strategy? > >Yes. Copland was a product, which was named MacOS 8. It followed a >strategy, which lacking any other name could be called the Copland >strategy. Although this strategy also included in its roadmap an eventual >goal of Gershwin, a product for which there never was any real >development. Thats a bit of confused version of events. Copland as such never shipped. I don't think it ever made it to develop preview - on the other hand, I did actually see it once (at the time it was dog slow and dropped into Macsbug more than once during book). It was intended to ship as Mac OS 8. The Copland strategy had many things that never really shipped at all. For example it made enormous use of SOM objects. The Copland product as designed was very different to the Mac OS 8 that eventually shipped. The version of OS 8 that shipped was with a very different strategy and was allegedly codenamed Tempo according to http://applemuseum.bott.org/sections/codenames.html > >Hint: They were all products > >Sort-of. What about Pure? Pink? Orient Express? All names for collections of technology that shared a strategic aim. Cheers David From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sun Nov 23 18:37:18 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031124005928.MHGE1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> References: <20031124005928.MHGE1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: > Yes. Copland was a product, "It was an abortion, Michael! An abortion!" j. From steve at paper-ape.com Sun Nov 23 18:51:54 2003 From: steve at paper-ape.com (steve harley) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: iTunes command line? In-Reply-To: <8757EE0C-1E1C-11D8-9DB9-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com > References: <04756BBD-1E0B-11D8-9DB9-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com > <8757EE0C-1E1C-11D8-9DB9-000A95981632@silverfieldstech.com > Message-ID: at 20031123, 20:21 -0500, they whom i call T Reaves wrote: > I did not know about cmd-i. Thanks! take the time to explore the menus (including contextual) prefs and buttons > Is there a repository for AppleScript scripts out there that I >could look at for example code? only a bazillion including: the following tries to be the end-all of iTunes scripting, though it's still a mixed bag, has good tutorials: also look through the archives of: -- steve harley From guy.english at sympatico.ca Sun Nov 23 21:30:03 2003 From: guy.english at sympatico.ca (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Refactoring Finder Message-ID: <2E1FF2F8-1E3F-11D8-83D8-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Hi, I've recently become a little annoyed at the new Panther Finder. I do like the new metal look and side bar. But, at the risk of Our Man From Ars riding into battle, the new browser should really be a different app from the spacial based Finder windows. My ideal pattern would be that whenever I double click on a folder (or drive) I'd like an aqua, sidebar-less, icon view window to pop up spacial style. I'd like Command-N to always open a new browser style window rooted at either my home or Computer according to the current options. This whole business of converting one style of Finder window to another just really stinks. It feels a little as if they've been trying to find a reason to have that rightmost pill button do something since they ditched single window mode from the developer previews. Drastically changing the way a window works is not cool. Further, I'd like it so that if I have the finder hidden and I click on the desktop all the windows don't jump out at me. I know that's old Mac OS behaviour but it's pretty lame since the windows don't jump to the front if the Finder isn't hidden. My proposal is to split the current Finder in three: The Desktop, The Broswer & The Finder. Clicking on the Finder icon in the dock would bring all the windows forward from both the Browser and Finder (which is what happens now). It would be impossible to convert between Broswer and Finder windows. Double clicking on a folder in the Broswer would open it in the Finder. Clicking on the Desktop wouldn't pop up hidden windows on me. Obviously a common file handling framework would mean that context menus and file handling in general are the same between all three components. While I'm bitching, I'd like more feed back with the icons. A charge indicator on my iPod icon would be great. A little progress meter on files downloading from Safari would be cool (IE on OS < X did this). And just to top it all off I'd love a central place for all progress meters. Copies in the Finder, Downloads from Safari and other long operations should be grouped together into one UI element. Each app could add it's own accessory view which it manages. The progress views shouldn't be in the same address space though. Each app should be able to create an off screen view which it draws to then hands to the system. The system then composites the view in the central progress UI and maps back input events to the app. Just a dreamin' away, Guy From guy.english at sympatico.ca Sun Nov 23 21:39:04 2003 From: guy.english at sympatico.ca (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <20031124005935.MHGT1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: <7A07B020-1E40-11D8-83D8-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> On Nov 23, 2003, at 7:59 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: > On 11/10/03 11:51 PM, mmalcolm crawford at mmalc_lists@mac.com wrote: > >> On Nov 9, 2003, at 11:05 AM, The Amazing Llama wrote: >> >>> Carbon: >>> A C library that traces its roots back to Classic, through System 7 >>> to a Pascal library called "the toolbox" that has been used since the >>> first Mac, when Andy Hertzfeld and Bill Atkinson wrote it. This is >>> unarguably the toughest part to port, as it has no history of running >>> anywhere but Mac processors. >> Actually, it does have some history -- Star Trek... > Star Trek is a fable. Do you mean fable as in it never existed or fable in that it possibly only existed in a completely unshipable form? I was led to believe that it did exist but I'm totally willing to believe it could never have shipped. Guy From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Nov 23 22:26:00 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <7A07B020-1E40-11D8-83D8-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> References: <20031124005935.MHGT1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> <7A07B020-1E40-11D8-83D8-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <0D292F9C-1E47-11D8-97BD-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 23, 2003, at 10:38 PM, Guy English wrote: > On Nov 23, 2003, at 7:59 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: >> On 11/10/03 11:51 PM, mmalcolm crawford at mmalc_lists@mac.com wrote: >> >>> On Nov 9, 2003, at 11:05 AM, The Amazing Llama wrote: >>> >>>> Carbon: >>>> A C library that traces its roots back to Classic, through System 7 >>>> to a Pascal library called "the toolbox" that has been used since >>>> the >>>> first Mac, when Andy Hertzfeld and Bill Atkinson wrote it. This is >>>> unarguably the toughest part to port, as it has no history of >>>> running >>>> anywhere but Mac processors. >>> Actually, it does have some history -- Star Trek... >> Star Trek is a fable. > > Do you mean fable as in it never existed or fable in that it possibly > only existed in a completely unshipable form? I was led to believe > that it did exist but I'm totally willing to believe it could never > have shipped. I don't know the truth of it at all, nor do I know why Bill called it a fable. When I was working at WordPerfect, some people from Novell (next town over and in those days pretty tight -- so tight they actually merged) claimed to have seen it... Chad From mmalc_lists at mac.com Sun Nov 23 23:54:04 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <20031124005935.MHGT1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: <3CF3798A-1E53-11D8-8EB4-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> On Nov 23, 2003, at 7:33 PM, Guy English wrote: > On Nov 23, 2003, at 7:59 PM, Bill Coleman wrote: >> On 11/10/03 11:51 PM, mmalcolm crawford at mmalc_lists@mac.com wrote: >>> Actually, [Mac OS] does have some history [running on processors >>> other than Motorola] -- Star Trek... >> Star Trek is a fable. > Do you mean fable as in it never existed or fable in that it possibly > only existed in a completely unshipable form? I was led to believe > that it did exist but I'm totally willing to believe it could never > have shipped. > My understanding is that the port was completed: amongst others... mmalc From mmalc_lists at mac.com Mon Nov 24 00:04:29 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <3CF3798A-1E53-11D8-8EB4-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <20031124005935.MHGT1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> <3CF3798A-1E53-11D8-8EB4-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 23, 2003, at 9:53 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > My understanding is that the port was completed: > apple/macintosh/misc/project-star-trek.html> > amongst others... > Hmm, managed to edit that so it is "misleading": "My understanding is that the port was completed well enough to at least boot the system:" is close enough. mmalc From chickxsy at sensewave.com Mon Nov 24 00:41:10 2003 From: chickxsy at sensewave.com (Barbro Maria Haveland) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? Message-ID: I'm looking for a newsreader for os x (panther), and having tried a few for mac up through the years I haven't been able to find any I really like yet... (no, can't remember any names) So what's the secret? Anyone want to share with me what program they're using and why? -- Barb. aka Chickxsy From surajrai at mac.com Mon Nov 24 02:10:02 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48C25E74-1E66-11D8-AFE0-000A95A50218@mac.com> On Nov 24, 2003, at 5:40 PM, Barbro Maria Haveland wrote: > I'm looking for a newsreader for os x (panther), and having tried a > few for mac up through the years I haven't been able to find any I > really like yet... (no, can't remember any names) > > So what's the secret? Anyone want to share with me what program > they're using and why? For simple text messages Mozilla's Thunderbird is pretty good. S.r. From Florian.Fuerstenberger at t-online.de Mon Nov 24 02:59:00 2003 From: Florian.Fuerstenberger at t-online.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Flo_F=FCrstenberger?=) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 24.11.2003, at 09:40, Barbro Maria Haveland wrote: > I'm looking for a newsreader for os x (panther), and having tried a > few for mac up through the years I haven't been able to find any I > really like yet... (no, can't remember any names) > > So what's the secret? Anyone want to share with me what program > they're using and why? I prefer tin or slrn, both console-based, but intuitive newsreaders. They're fast and I can log into my computer from anywhere with ssh and continue reading news wherever I left them at home. I never got to like MT-Newswatcher or Thoth, Halime's development has been stopped a few days ago. If you need a good offline reader, have a look at MacSoup (shareware) or Gunnar (not quite finished yet, but already quite usable and free). HTH, flo. From aslakr at idi.ntnu.no Mon Nov 24 03:48:37 2003 From: aslakr at idi.ntnu.no (Aslak Raanes) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: P? 24. nov 2003 kl. 09:40 skrev Barbro Maria Haveland: > I'm looking for a newsreader for os x (panther), and having tried a > few for mac up through the years I haven't been able to find any I > really like yet... (no, can't remember any names) > > So what's the secret? Anyone want to share with me what program > they're using and why? MacSOUP and the main reason is a really nice graphically threading (subway/metro/tube-map-like). I also find it's keyboard navigating very good since I hardly (ever) use the mouse in MacSOUP. A client that looks very promising is Newsflash , but is seems like the development of that one has stoppet. I think that main hurdle for news/nntp-clients are handling mime (and non-ascii character sets). If news clients could have been using Apple Mail mime-handler, I think it would have been easier to create one. Halime is really a disaster when using mime (QP). I do not think the author has read the relevant RFCs. -- Aslak Raanes From charlesd at newsguy.com Mon Nov 24 07:30:03 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 09:40 +0100 24/11/2003, Barbro Maria Haveland wrote: >I'm looking for a newsreader for os x (panther), and having tried a >few for mac up through the years I haven't been able to find any I >really like yet... (no, can't remember any names) > >So what's the secret? Anyone want to share with me what program >they're using and why? There are only five newsreaders worth a damn on OS X: 1 Hogwasher. Semi-shareware. It's officially commercialware, but there's a full-featured demo to try before you buy. Hogwasher 1 stunk up the place. Hogwasher 2 was good, but is OS 9/Classic only. Hogwasher 3 is Carbon, runs under OS X fairly well. Really great filters. Threaded. Handles mail well. Has issues with 10.3. Hogwasher 4 is rumoured to be under development. I prefer Hogwasher for most NNTP tasks. 2 MT-Newswatcher. Freeware. Long history in OS prev to X. Stable. Fairly fast. Particularly useful for smaller text-only newsgroups. I use MT-NW when I don't use Hogwasher. Her Imperial Highness uses MT-NW pretty much exclusively. (She'd been able to make Hogwasher crash consistently back with Jag, when I couldn't; now that Hogwasher crashes fairly often with Panther, she just has to look at it for it to crash. MT-NW rarely, if ever, crashes.) 3 Thunderbird. Freeware. Nice if you like three-pane windows. I don't. 4 MacSoup. Shareware. There are those who like it, and those who hate it. I don't like it. It appears to have some issues with Panther. 5 Thoth. Stolen property. It appears to be a direct outgrowth of YA-Newswatcher. The pirate who developed both it and YA-NW has decided to not merely charge for it, in direct conflict with the license for Newswatcher-derived products, but has issued it as crippleware. It also appears to have issues with Panther. Thunderbird and MT-NW don't seem to have problems with Panther. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From slack at code-poets.com Mon Nov 24 08:30:03 2003 From: slack at code-poets.com (J. Todd Slack) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Powerbook for sale Message-ID: I am looking to sell my 17-inch Powerbook (first ed.), 2GB of RAM (could be 1GB), 80 GB, Brenthaven 17-inch bag, AppleCare, 2 power adaptors, all cables. If anyone is interested, please let me know. Price is negotiable. (but e- mail me to talk about it) Thanks! -Jason From list at stevenshand.com Mon Nov 24 09:02:04 2003 From: list at stevenshand.com (Steven Shand) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: more wireless on Everest stuff... Message-ID: http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article.asp?UAN=2403 Steven. (was this thread on here or nutters? both? ) From thomasv at mac.com Mon Nov 24 09:17:16 2003 From: thomasv at mac.com (Thomas Vincent) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Powerbook for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think e-bay may be a more appropriate place for u to auction it off. Cheers, Tom On Nov 24, 2003, at 8:27 AM, J. Todd Slack wrote: > I am looking to sell my 17-inch Powerbook (first ed.), 2GB of RAM > (could be 1GB), 80 GB, Brenthaven 17-inch bag, AppleCare, 2 power > adaptors, all cables. > > If anyone is interested, please let me know. Price is negotiable. (but > e- > mail me to talk about it) > > Thanks! > > -Jason > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From nadeama2 at videotron.ca Mon Nov 24 10:16:22 2003 From: nadeama2 at videotron.ca (Martin Nadeau) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7A573393-1EA8-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> On Nov 24, 2003, at 10:29, Charles Dyer wrote: > 5 Thoth. Stolen property. It appears to be a direct outgrowth of > YA-Newswatcher. Brian says that all of the code in Thoth is either original to Thoth or was code he added himself to YA-NW, and that in fact nothing remains from original NW. Thus he feels it's a new animal and he's allowed to charge for it. I don't have any reason not to believe him, and it seems that NWU's lawyers aren't too bothered by it either. I'd like to know what's your proof for calling Thoth stolen property and Brian a pirate? If you're going to publically denounce someone as a thief and a pirate, you better have some solid proof. > The pirate who developed both it and YA-NW has decided to not merely > charge for it, in direct conflict with the license for > Newswatcher-derived products, but has issued it as crippleware. What do you mean by crippleware? Like most shareware programs, it has features that are disabled until you register. Nothing is crippled once you've paid the registration fee. Do you consider all demo applications that have some features disabled to be "crippleware"? > It also appears to have issues with Panther. A new version was released yesterday that fixes the 2 issues with Panther. -- Martin Nadeau From slack at code-poets.com Mon Nov 24 10:25:03 2003 From: slack at code-poets.com (J. Todd Slack) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Powerbook for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I think e-bay may be a more appropriate place for u to auction it off. It will make it up there, just checking around the list first. EBay can be a hassle. -Jason > On Nov 24, 2003, at 8:27 AM, J. Todd Slack wrote: > > > I am looking to sell my 17-inch Powerbook (first ed.), 2GB of RAM > > (could be 1GB), 80 GB, Brenthaven 17-inch bag, AppleCare, 2 power > > adaptors, all cables. > > > > If anyone is interested, please let me know. Price is negotiable. > (but > > e- > > mail me to talk about it) > > > > Thanks! > > > > -Jason > > > > _______________________________________________ > > MacOSX-talk mailing list > > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From dinse at niehs.nih.gov Mon Nov 24 10:46:58 2003 From: dinse at niehs.nih.gov (Gregg Dinse) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: faxing questions Message-ID: Hi, I just tried faxing to and from my G5 running OSX 10.3.1 and I was fairly successful, but I have two questions: 1. How do I get my G5 to notify me when a fax arrives? I opened the Faxing panel under the Print & Fax module in the Preferences app. I checked the box for Email To and I entered my email address. When I sent a fax to my G5, it was received successfully and saved to the proper directory, but I never got an email message. Thus, in general, I would not realize that a fax came in unless I checked the Save To directory. What do I need to do to get an email notification? 2. Is there a log that shows whether a fax sent from my G5 was sent successfully? If so, where do I look for this information? It would be nice to have the option of getting an email notification that the fax was sent successfully. With or without that, it would be nice to look at a log file for information about all faxes sent and received. I assume that such a log exists, but I'm not sure where to find it. Thanks, Gregg ================================= Gregg Dinse From sstevenson at mac.com Mon Nov 24 11:19:48 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: [Moderator] Re: Powerbook for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14147E7E-1EB1-11D8-BE3F-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 24, 2003, at 10:22 AM, J. Todd Slack wrote: >> I think e-bay may be a more appropriate place for u to auction it off. > > It will make it up there, just checking around the list first. EBay can > be a hassle. It really is important that we keep this a marketplace-free area. There are ~1600 hundred people on the list and I'm sure they all have something they'd like to sell. As a result, we really can't allow this. In the past, I think I said I could see room for making an exception for something rare with cultural significance -- Next hardware, for example. Something that might be hard to find through other means. But it's not hard to find or sell a PowerBook. Thanks, - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From aegidian at mac.com Mon Nov 24 11:44:54 2003 From: aegidian at mac.com (Giles Williams) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: <7A573393-1EA8-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <7A573393-1EA8-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: On 24 Nov 2003, at 18:03, Martin Nadeau wrote: > What do you mean by crippleware? Like most shareware programs, it has > features that are disabled until you register. Nothing is crippled > once you've paid the registration fee. Do you consider all demo > applications that have some features disabled to be "crippleware"? > That's the definition of crippleware I'm used to. It's there with 'nagware', 'donationware' and 'freeware' as subcategorisations of shareware. -- Giles. From slack at code-poets.com Mon Nov 24 11:54:43 2003 From: slack at code-poets.com (J. Todd Slack) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: [Moderator] Re: Powerbook for sale In-Reply-To: <14147E7E-1EB1-11D8-BE3F-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <14147E7E-1EB1-11D8-BE3F-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi Scott, > It really is important that we keep this a marketplace-free area. There > are ~1600 hundred people on the list and I'm sure they all have > something they'd like to sell. As a result, we really can't allow this. No problem Scott. I apologize. -Jason From gumbright at taltrade.com Mon Nov 24 12:19:45 2003 From: gumbright at taltrade.com (Guy Umbright) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Change user at screensaver password dialog? Message-ID: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F0495EC6D@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> Is there any way to allow a different user to log in at the screen saver login dialog? It seems like a reasonable thing to be able to do as someone walked away from the the machine and someone else wants to use it... This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. Please notify the sender, by electronic mail or telephone, of any unintended recipients and delete the original message without making any copies. From shawnce at mac.com Mon Nov 24 12:33:47 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Suggestions for good XML schema / XML editors on Mac OS X Message-ID: So I am looking for a good Mac OS X tool that can edit XML and XML schemas including validation and nice syntax features (coloring, completion, etc.). Also it being a good Mac OS X citizen is highly desired. Any preferences folks have...? -Shawn From sstevenson at mac.com Mon Nov 24 12:36:36 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: more wireless on Everest stuff... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17386C92-1EB2-11D8-BE3F-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 24, 2003, at 9:01 AM, Steven Shand wrote: > http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article.asp?UAN=2403 It appears the UK is more sane when it comes to things like this. > Intel reckons it?s in the clear though, because during the peak > season, there really is a hotspot at Base Camp. If that's true, it might squeeze it through the door of 'reasonable', but it's still misleading in terms of the consumer thinking they can have wireless access anywhere. There's a tiny little disclaimer that doesn't seem to serve its purpose very well. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From ssobek at stevesobek.net Mon Nov 24 12:40:48 2003 From: ssobek at stevesobek.net (Steve Sobek) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Powerbook for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <141E4F14-1EBD-11D8-910A-0003934F7BD4@stevesobek.net> Actually, I'm not sure of the list rules, but I think it's fine for him to try and offer it up to the group first, if he's negotiable on the price. Not that I could afford it, mind you. :-) -S On Nov 24, 2003, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Vincent wrote: > I think e-bay may be a more appropriate place for u to auction it off. > > Cheers, > Tom > > On Nov 24, 2003, at 8:27 AM, J. Todd Slack wrote: > >> I am looking to sell my 17-inch Powerbook (first ed.), 2GB of RAM >> (could be 1GB), 80 GB, Brenthaven 17-inch bag, AppleCare, 2 power >> adaptors, all cables. >> >> If anyone is interested, please let me know. Price is negotiable. >> (but e- >> mail me to talk about it) From seiryu at comcast.net Mon Nov 24 12:52:38 2003 From: seiryu at comcast.net (Nick Zitzmann) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Change user at screensaver password dialog? In-Reply-To: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F0495EC6D@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> References: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F0495EC6D@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> Message-ID: <20342E0E-1EBE-11D8-81C9-000A95BB5E12@comcast.net> On Nov 24, 2003, at 11:53 AM, Guy Umbright wrote: > Is there any way to allow a different user to log in at the screen > saver > login dialog? It seems like a reasonable thing to be able to do as > someone walked away from the the machine and someone else wants to use > it... If you're using OS X 10.3 or later, then turn on fast user switching in the Accounts pane, and turn on requiring a password for the screen saver in the Security pane. When both are on, you'll see a button that does exactly what you're saying here. Nick Zitzmann AIM/iChat: dragonsdontsleep Check out my software page: http://seiryu.home.comcast.net/ S/MIME signature available upon request "That's a funny thing to promise. Well, you can't never let anything happen to him [Nemo]; then, nothing would ever happen to him." - Dory, from the movie "Finding Nemo" From dinse at niehs.nih.gov Mon Nov 24 12:56:38 2003 From: dinse at niehs.nih.gov (Gregg Dinse) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: faxing questions In-Reply-To: <25486276-1EB3-11D8-82BB-003065D8C728@softhome.net> References: <25486276-1EB3-11D8-82BB-003065D8C728@softhome.net> Message-ID: Hi Karl, I just looked in /var/log/fax. There was a single file named cu.modem.log, but I could not open it (at least not with TextEdit -- and I don't know what other app to try). Gregg On Nov 24, 2003, at 2:19 PM, Karl Kuehn wrote: > I have done precisely nothing with faxing on MacOS X, but I would > take a look at /var/log/fax/ as a first step... Just something I > stumbled across... > > Karl Kuehn > larkost@softhome.net > On Nov 24, 2003, at 1:35 PM, Gregg Dinse wrote: > >> 2. Is there a log that shows whether a fax sent from my G5 was sent >> successfully? >> >> If so, where do I look for this information? It would be nice to >> have the option of getting an email notification that the fax was >> sent successfully. With or without that, it would be nice to look at >> a log file for information about all faxes sent and received. I >> assume that such a log exists, but I'm not sure where to find it. From soft at bdanube.com Mon Nov 24 13:59:26 2003 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: faxing questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <28E89B98-1EC5-11D8-83FE-000A27984144@bdanube.com> On Nov 24, 2003, at 12:35 PM, Gregg Dinse wrote: > I just tried faxing to and from my G5 running OSX 10.3.1 and I was > fairly successful, but I have two questions: > > 1. How do I get my G5 to notify me when a fax arrives? There may be a more canonical way, but one way is to attach an AppleScript folder action to the received faxes folder. Michael -- Support our troops! Don't lie to them. From gumbright at taltrade.com Mon Nov 24 14:24:47 2003 From: gumbright at taltrade.com (Guy Umbright) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Change user at screensaver password dialog? Message-ID: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F0495EC8B@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> Excellent! I will try it, thanks! -----Original Message----- From: Nick Zitzmann [mailto:seiryu@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 2:38 PM To: Guy Umbright Cc: macosx-talk@omnigroup.com Subject: Re: Change user at screensaver password dialog? On Nov 24, 2003, at 11:53 AM, Guy Umbright wrote: > Is there any way to allow a different user to log in at the screen > saver > login dialog? It seems like a reasonable thing to be able to do as > someone walked away from the the machine and someone else wants to use > it... If you're using OS X 10.3 or later, then turn on fast user switching in the Accounts pane, and turn on requiring a password for the screen saver in the Security pane. When both are on, you'll see a button that does exactly what you're saying here. Nick Zitzmann AIM/iChat: dragonsdontsleep Check out my software page: http://seiryu.home.comcast.net/ S/MIME signature available upon request "That's a funny thing to promise. Well, you can't never let anything happen to him [Nemo]; then, nothing would ever happen to him." - Dory, from the movie "Finding Nemo" This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. Please notify the sender, by electronic mail or telephone, of any unintended recipients and delete the original message without making any copies. From mark at imap-partners.net Mon Nov 24 14:27:25 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: Suggestions for good XML schema / XML editors on Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 24 Nov 2003, at 20:02, Shawn Erickson wrote: > So I am looking for a good Mac OS X tool that can edit XML and XML > schemas including validation and nice syntax features (coloring, > completion, etc.). Also it being a good Mac OS X citizen is highly > desired. > > Any preferences folks have...? nope, but if you find one... Morphon might be worth a try, but its slow (in my experience) and lacks full citizenship paperwork. The OS X versions of heavyweights such as TurboXML are IMO pitiful. mark. From larkost at softhome.net Mon Nov 24 14:28:51 2003 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: faxing questions In-Reply-To: References: <25486276-1EB3-11D8-82BB-003065D8C728@softhome.net> Message-ID: <507724D3-1EC6-11D8-82BB-003065D8C728@softhome.net> My guess is that this is exactly the file you want, but since I have never faxed, I don't have this file. And "could not open" covers a lot of ground... my guess is that it is not world readable... if you know how you could look at it on the command line... you just have to 'sudo cat /var/log/fax/cu.modem.log'... Karl Kuehn larkost@sothome.net On Nov 24, 2003, at 3:42 PM, Gregg Dinse wrote: > I just looked in /var/log/fax. There was a single file named > cu.modem.log, but I could not open it (at least not with TextEdit -- > and I don't know what other app to try). From mjwise at kapu.net Mon Nov 24 14:42:20 2003 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:34 2005 Subject: faxing questions In-Reply-To: References: <25486276-1EB3-11D8-82BB-003065D8C728@softhome.net> Message-ID: <331624BC-1EC7-11D8-A71D-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> On Nov 24, 2003, at 10:42 AM, Gregg Dinse wrote: > I just looked in /var/log/fax. There was a single file named > cu.modem.log, but I could not open it (at least not with TextEdit -- > and I don't know what other app to try). Terminal.app is your friend. So is sudo, in this case. % ls -l /var/log/fax total 8 -rw------- 1 root wheel 2857 28 Oct 09:43 cu.modem.log Translation: the only one who is allowed to read that file is the superuser. % sudo cat cu.modem.log ... will do the trick, if you have administrative access on the machine in question. Aloha mai Nai`a! -- "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ and Usenet Registration handy..." From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Mon Nov 24 14:48:50 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Refactoring Finder In-Reply-To: <2E1FF2F8-1E3F-11D8-83D8-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> References: <2E1FF2F8-1E3F-11D8-83D8-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Maybe the Path Finder guys could make your dreams come true? I know others complain about the loss of the spatial Finder (I'm more of a browser kinda guy myself), so the Path Finder team might be more responsive than the Finder team. With a smaller installed user base, this could be a significant growth opportunity for them. Maybe they could include a preference that would make Path Finder always operate in "spatial mode", that would operate as much as possible like the OS<=9.x Finder. Best, -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 641 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031124/f1df32e9/attachment.bin From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Nov 24 15:36:41 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Suggestions for good XML schema / XML editors on Mac OS X In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2EC09B0B-1ECE-11D8-9A4F-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> On Monday, November 24, 2003, at 01:34 PM, mark wrote: > > On 24 Nov 2003, at 20:02, Shawn Erickson wrote: > >> So I am looking for a good Mac OS X tool that can edit XML and XML >> schemas including validation and nice syntax features (coloring, >> completion, etc.). Also it being a good Mac OS X citizen is highly >> desired. >> >> Any preferences folks have...? > > nope, but if you find one... > > Morphon might be worth a try, but its slow (in my experience) and > lacks full citizenship paperwork. The OS X versions of heavyweights > such as TurboXML are IMO pitiful. Don't get me started... here's what I do - Ingredients 1 PC running XP Pro 1 copy of XML Spy 1 Mac OSX box with Microsoft Remote Desktop Connection installed Connect PC to a network reachable by the Mac. Activate Remote Desktop on the PC. Connect to PC, from Mac, via RDC. Run XML Spy. Double ingredients as necessary. Ugh, sorry... but really, after much soul-searching (not to mention Googling), this is still my best solution. I guess it depends what you really need, but I couldn't find anything that satisfied me as much as this recipe, and that is just sad (it's not like i WANT to run XP). -R From mstearne at entermix.com Mon Nov 24 15:38:26 2003 From: mstearne at entermix.com (Michael Stearne) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: more wireless on Everest stuff... In-Reply-To: <17386C92-1EB2-11D8-BE3F-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <17386C92-1EB2-11D8-BE3F-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <3FC28891.8010102@entermix.com> Scott Stevenson wrote: > On Nov 24, 2003, at 9:01 AM, Steven Shand wrote: > >> http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article.asp?UAN=2403 > > It appears the UK is more sane when it comes to things like this. > >> Intel reckons it?s in the clear though, because during the peak >> season, there really is a hotspot at Base Camp. > > > If that's true, it might squeeze it through the door of 'reasonable', > but it's still misleading in terms of the consumer thinking they can > have wireless access anywhere. There's a tiny little disclaimer that > doesn't seem to serve its purpose very well. > This is true because a friend of mine saw that commercial and asked how does Centrino allow wireless access anywhere. I have to explain that if the network is there an iBook would do the same thing. Michael From charlesd at newsguy.com Mon Nov 24 15:57:08 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: <7A573393-1EA8-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <7A573393-1EA8-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: At 13:03 -0500 24/11/2003, Martin Nadeau wrote: >On Nov 24, 2003, at 10:29, Charles Dyer wrote: > >>5 Thoth. Stolen property. It appears to be a >>direct outgrowth of YA-Newswatcher. > >Brian says that all of the code in Thoth is >either original to Thoth or was code he added >himself to YA-NW, and that in fact nothing >remains from original NW. Thus he feels it's a >new animal and he's allowed to charge for it. > >I don't have any reason not to believe him, I do. I remember when he charged for YA-Newswatcher. US$20. That was just before he stopped (public) development of YA-NW and only updated The Chosen Few?. Which number did _not_ include those who'd paid him the 20 bucks. Guess how I know this for a fact. > and it seems that NWU's lawyers aren't too bothered by it either. That's nice. > I'd like to know what's your proof for calling >Thoth stolen property and Brian a pirate? If >you're going to publically denounce someone as a >thief and a pirate, you better have some solid >proof. It appears that his lawyers don't have a problem with this. I've been calling him a thief in public for years. It would appear that the same logic wrt Northwestern would apply. > >>The pirate who developed both it and YA-NW has >>decided to not merely charge for it, in direct >>conflict with the license for >>Newswatcher-derived products, but has issued it >>as crippleware. > >What do you mean by crippleware? Like most >shareware programs, it has features that are >disabled until you register. Not most. Like _some_. Those are crippleware, too. > Nothing is crippled once you've paid the >registration fee. Do you consider all demo >applications that have some features disabled to >be "crippleware"? Damn right. > >> It also appears to have issues with Panther. > >A new version was released yesterday that fixes the 2 issues with Panther. Hoo-rah. Last I heard there were at least a half-dozen. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From charlesd at newsguy.com Mon Nov 24 16:15:19 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: References: <7A573393-1EA8-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: At 19:02 +0000 24/11/2003, Giles Williams wrote: >On 24 Nov 2003, at 18:03, Martin Nadeau wrote: > >>What do you mean by crippleware? Like most shareware programs, it >>has features that are disabled until you register. Nothing is >>crippled once you've paid the registration fee. Do you consider all >>demo applications that have some features disabled to be >>"crippleware"? >> > >That's the definition of crippleware I'm used to. It's there with >'nagware', 'donationware' and 'freeware' as subcategorisations of >shareware. > And, given that the whole point of trying out a shareware app before paying for it is to _try out all the features which interest you_, if some of those features are deliberately crippled you'll not know until you pay if you like what they do. Which is why I dump crippleware directly to the Trash. Putting a time limit on how long it'll work is one thing. Putting up an annoying splash screen which won't go away until you pay up is another. Having the app randomly pop up a nagging dialogue is yet another. All acceptable. Removing vital features is not acceptable. I'd not pay one cent for Thoth, even if I hadn't had previous contact with the pirate, just because it's crippleware. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From pelorus at mac.com Mon Nov 24 16:29:43 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Cupid Stunt: Rob Enderle at COMDEX Message-ID: <7E1C8941-1EDA-11D8-BA10-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> "My favorite PC overall was one built by Acer and cobranded with Ferrari. It was a very clean design -- in red of course -- and I could picture myself walking into a meeting and, for once, wipe the superior look from the faces of the folks using Apple laptops." Yes, because you would look great with a red laptop with a Ferarri logo. Wouldn't at all look like an also-ran. Actually HAVE a Ferarri? Nope? Then you're a dick. Like any pillock who has Ferrari-branded *anything* but a car... "I moderated a panel made up of Ted Farrel (chief architect and director of strategy for Oracle), Greg Stein (chairman of the Apache Software Foundation), John Montgomery (director of developer and platform evangelism for Microsoft) and my friend Laura DiDio (a research director at the Yankee Group). ... I asked the panel to list the companies that would certainly be around in the future -- and those that wouldn't be. ... The two companies everyone on the panel agreed would be around for the future were Microsoft and IBM. ...There was some disagreement about Oracle. Microsoft and Oracle said that Oracle would survive; Apache said it wouldn't. ... I also asked which companies would be dead. The panel agreed that it would be Apple, Sun and Novell. The panel also agreed that if it didn't run on the x86 architecture, it was likely gone. " You know, there are some people who deserve to be beaten with sticks. Shills like Thurott and Enderle really make me want to get all mediaeval... Don't be afraid to take big steps. You can't cross a chasm in two small jumps. From larkost at softhome.net Mon Nov 24 16:40:13 2003 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: faxing questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25486276-1EB3-11D8-82BB-003065D8C728@softhome.net> I have done precisely nothing with faxing on MacOS X, but I would take a look at /var/log/fax/ as a first step... Just something I stumbled across... Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net On Nov 24, 2003, at 1:35 PM, Gregg Dinse wrote: > 2. Is there a log that shows whether a fax sent from my G5 was sent > successfully? > > If so, where do I look for this information? It would be nice to have > the option of getting an email notification that the fax was sent > successfully. With or without that, it would be nice to look at a log > file for information about all faxes sent and received. I assume that > such a log exists, but I'm not sure where to find it. From mark at imap-partners.net Mon Nov 24 16:56:57 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: <7A573393-1EA8-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <7A573393-1EA8-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <3D33111F-1EB3-11D8-8117-000A958A3014@imap-partners.net> I don't agree with Chuck's big 5. I'd recommend Halime. It doesn't have the power of MT Newswatcher or Hogwasher (yet), but it is far and away the best OS X citizen and does everything I need. mark. From sstevenson at mac.com Mon Nov 24 17:25:28 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Cupid Stunt: Rob Enderle at COMDEX In-Reply-To: <7E1C8941-1EDA-11D8-BA10-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <7E1C8941-1EDA-11D8-BA10-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <0CD2AE71-1EE5-11D8-BE07-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 24, 2003, at 4:01 PM, Matt wrote: > ... I also asked which companies would be dead. The panel agreed that > it would be Apple, Sun and Novell. The panel also agreed that if it > didn't run on the x86 architecture, it was likely gone. " I wish we could run statistics on the number of firms whose employees have predicted Apple's death over the years. I wonder how many of those companies are actually still around 20+ years later. I also wish the world would finally wise up to the fact that Apple is the source of many new ideas in the industry. I just read an article in Business 2.0 with Michael Dell talking about the digital hub like it was some new concept, and referring to 802.11 in a similar manner. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From rogerhoward at mac.com Mon Nov 24 17:41:06 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Cupid Stunt: Rob Enderle at COMDEX In-Reply-To: <7E1C8941-1EDA-11D8-BA10-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Monday, November 24, 2003, at 04:01 PM, Matt wrote: > > "My favorite PC overall was one built by Acer and cobranded with > Ferrari. It was a very clean design -- in red of course -- and I could > picture myself walking into a meeting and, for once, wipe the superior > look from the faces of the folks using Apple laptops." What's most telling is the comment about the "superior look". I don't sit in meetings broadcasting "hey, look at me, with my PowerBook!" and I don't see anyone else doing that either. Usually when I'm working in view of others, I'd rather they just shut up and move on, but many people often stop to ask me about Apple and OSX. If someone thinks it's superior, or I'm superior for having it, that's their problem. This guy obviously has some real envy issues. And those Ferrari laptops were just butt-ugly. I could do better with my TiBook and some red paint. Who associates Ferrari with computer engineering savvy, and frankly who really sees a big different in an Acer versus a Dell? If I had a PowerBook with a Mercedes paintjob, most people would just look at me for what I'd be - a pompous, status-obsessed brand whore, not someone who's simply looking for the best possible experience, damn the majority opinion. > Yes, because you would look great with a red laptop with a Ferarri > logo. Wouldn't at all look like an also-ran. Actually HAVE a Ferarri? > Nope? Then you're a dick. Like any pillock who has Ferrari-branded > *anything* but a car... > > "I moderated a panel made up of Ted Farrel (chief architect and > director of strategy for Oracle), Greg Stein (chairman of the Apache > Software Foundation), John Montgomery (director of developer and > platform evangelism for Microsoft) and my friend Laura DiDio (a > research director at the Yankee Group). > > ... I asked the panel to list the companies that would certainly be > around in the future -- and those that wouldn't be. WTF kind of criteria is this anyway? The future? Maybe we could narrow this down a bit? I predict in the future (oooooh, the fuuuuuture) Microsoft will dominate the then-critical market of candy bars for nanobots. IBM will return to it's roots building calculating machines... for REALLY big, futuristic numbers. > ... The two companies everyone on the panel agreed would be around for > the future were Microsoft and IBM. Gee, what a frickin stretch. > ...There was some disagreement about Oracle. Microsoft and Oracle said > that Oracle would survive; Apache said it wouldn't. Oh, and another surprise. I'm so shocked to see such controversial suggestions, and such an unexpected divide. > ... I also asked which companies would be dead. The panel agreed that > it would be Apple, Sun and Novell. The panel also agreed that if it > didn't run on the x86 architecture, it was likely gone. " I would be tempted to think Sun will be gone, but I'm not ready to call them dead yet. Novell seems mystifyingly alive and kicking, if not maybe a bit downsized, but they seem to hang on despite conventional wisdom - I work at a big Novell shop, I don't understand it, but I don't think they are graveyard candidates yet (as much as I might wish otherwise). And, well, for anal-ysts to spend breath predicting Apple's demise based on some sweeping generalization, yeah, color me bored. All that shocks me about any of this is that people pay money to listen to these jackasses. -R From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Mon Nov 24 18:33:42 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Cupid Stunt: Rob Enderle at COMDEX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > All that shocks me about any of this is that people pay money to > listen to these jackasses. After the conferente was finished, panelist started to suck each other's... I mean, to plug their iPod headphones insidea each other's iPod. [1] Frikkin' jackwankers and their Panthwires (LIAR!) [2] j. [1] [2] And yes, you are all missing the fun at Nutters. From tallama at mac.com Mon Nov 24 18:44:38 2003 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Cupid Stunt: Rob Enderle at COMDEX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 24, 2003, at 5:28 PM, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > All that shocks me about any of this is that people pay money to > listen to these jackasses. Because we all know that we can subscribe to mailing lists and listen to jackasses for free! Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031124/15f478a9/smime.bin From jpb at ApesSeekingKnowledge.net Mon Nov 24 19:02:22 2003 From: jpb at ApesSeekingKnowledge.net (Joe Block) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Starting a process as low level user... In-Reply-To: <6C4E30DA-1E15-11D8-8DCF-00039375836C@petmystone.com> References: <80C0DA56-1C90-11D8-B0D0-00039375836C@petmystone.com> <5AA750EC-1CAB-11D8-98B9-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> <96A92B02-1DC2-11D8-8602-00039375836C@petmystone.com> <72F9F6FC-1DD7-11D8-A54C-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> <6C4E30DA-1E15-11D8-8DCF-00039375836C@petmystone.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Nov 23, 2003, at 7:30 PM, Timothy Stone wrote: > Create a Mac OS X Startup script in /Library/StartupItems to start > Tomcat as a non privileged user, be that user nobody or another > low-privileged user created for this task. Here's how I start postgreSQL on my laptop. It's modified from a script that was initially created by fink's daemonic package. - --- cut --- #!/bin/sh . /etc/rc.common PREFIX="/sw" DATADIR="${PREFIX}/var/postgresql/data" LOGFILE="${DATADIR}/pgsql.log" case "$1" in start) ConsoleMessage "Starting PostgreSQL database server" if [ -x /usr/bin/sudo ]; then # run the daemon sudo -u postgres "${PREFIX}/bin/pg_ctl" start -D "$DATADIR" -l "$LOGFILE" fi ;; esac exit 0 - --- cut --- jpb - -- Joe Block Indeed it would not be an exaggeration to describe the history of the personal computer industry as a massive effort to keep up with Apple...[The Macintosh] went on to pioneer or popularize almost every innovation in personal computers." - BYTE, December 1994 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQE/wqsyyEXo8W2M9hsRAjU7AJ4puZ5xrOaftZsGznaHFyLdBiXuLgCgjHUt VqUF6ux+unsA6qpbRhLnjb0= =07rB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jpb at ApesSeekingKnowledge.net Mon Nov 24 19:16:05 2003 From: jpb at ApesSeekingKnowledge.net (Joe Block) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5AAC0DDE-1EE5-11D8-87E1-000393102F9E@ApesSeekingKnowledge.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Nov 24, 2003, at 3:40 AM, Barbro Maria Haveland wrote: > I'm looking for a newsreader for os x (panther), and having tried a > few for mac up through the years I haven't been able to find any I > really like yet... (no, can't remember any names) > > So what's the secret? Anyone want to share with me what program > they're using and why? I use MT-Newswatcher because of scoring time-limited filters, hierarchially applied. For example, I have a filter that adds 10 to the score in comp.sys.mac.* if the sender has @apple.com in their email address. I have other filters that subtract score points based on keywords in the message subject, others that add, others that subtract 100 points for certain specific email addresses, other filters that automatically remove 25 points if the message has been cross-posted to more than 3 groups. When a thread grows tiresome, I add temporary filters that remove N points from the score, set to automatically delete themselves when two weeks have gone by since the last time the filter was triggered. If you know how to write regexes, you can use them in filters too, which adds considerably to their power. Then I just set the group windows to sort by descending score, and I have the preferences set to automatically mark a message read if the score is below -10. If not for MT's scoring, I would have given up on usenet long ago - as it is, I read 120 newsgroups periodically, and 30 or so daily, and I don't tend to spend more than 45 minutes or so a day reading news - my filter collection (several hundred at last count) is very draconian. jpb - -- Joe Block Microsoft has a new version out, Windows XP, which according to everybody is the "most reliable Windows ever.'' To me, this is like saying that asparagus is "the most articulate vegetable ever.'' - Dave Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQE/wq4GyEXo8W2M9hsRAtiWAJ4rYlEevdLxhvH+a2mzq1WJmXMxHQCffV9n nQMUBunVtdkDzLGPGgJP22Y= =CP84 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fabienlroy at mac.com Mon Nov 24 19:18:43 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com Message-ID: Dear Sir, Not willing to deprive you of your first amendment right, and in the sake of the truth, iPod battery _ARE_ _NOT_ unreplaceable. I can understand that this information is not available specially from Apple tech suppor but any Google search would have pint you to the a supplier of replacement battery. Could you check how you can buy and change the iPod battery at: . Here you will find that you can replace it out of warranty for $49. Also you can buy for $59 an "AppleCare Protection Plan for iPod" that will extend up to two years the repair of your iPod (which include battery replacement). So if you apply for "AppleCare Protection Plan for iPod" in the last month of your 1 year warranty you will end with a total of 3 years of warranty. In the name of honesty it would be a good idea to modify or remove your movie according to the information above. Also I wonder if you would do the same complaint if your cell-phone battery had an estimated life of 18 moths. Would you do the same for the cell-phone manufacturer. Yours. Fabien From alexfuller at mac.com Mon Nov 24 19:28:22 2003 From: alexfuller at mac.com (Alex Fuller) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Panther - Network browsing broken? In-Reply-To: <20031124015736.XETN2005.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> References: <20031124015736.XETN2005.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: <91B7F42B-1EF6-11D8-A418-000393DB5348@mac.com> On 24 Nov 2003, at 1:57 am, Bill Coleman wrote: > OK, I'm using Panther on my 12" AlBook. I'm running Jaguar on my > Sawtooth. When I try to connect to the disk drive on the Sawtooth over > AirPort, I can't see the machine. > > I bring up Connect To Server in the Finder, click the Browse button, > but > nothing happens. No window, no nothing. > > If I guess the network number of the Sawtooth box, I can connect. But I > can't browse to it. > > Having used the Mac from back in the days when Apple introduced file > networking using the Chooser, this seems like a giant leap backwards > -- I > have to know the network name or address of a server a priori in order > to > connect? > > It wasn't like this with Jaguar on the AlBook. I could browse right in. > What gives? Do I somehow have a bad install? No, I don't think it's just you - network browsing is incosistent in Panther in my experience too. I've got some anecdotal data but haven't yet had a chance to narrow the behaviour down - mainly there seems to be something about SMB shares on the same network. One minute I'm browsing through /Network and can see other AFP shares listed. The next minute a windows machine joins with SMB sharing, and all I can see are workgroups & this other machine - the AFP volumes have disappeared. In your case you half imply that your Sawtooth is networked via both (wired) ethernet and Airport. In this case, I have a feeling that your Sawtooth could be only broadcasting its Rendezvous stuff over the wired connection so nothing shows up over Airport. Just a guess. Alex From markm at tyrell.com Mon Nov 24 19:43:01 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031124005935.MHGT1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> References: <20031124005935.MHGT1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: At 7:59 PM -0500 11/23/03, Bill Coleman wrote: >Star Trek is a fable. > >How about MAE -- the Mac Toolbox running on various flavors of Unix? That's BlueBox. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aa4lr at mac.com Mon Nov 24 20:07:02 2003 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off Message-ID: <20031125040629.CMAX14203.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> On 11/23/03 9:19 PM, David Cake at dave@difference.com.au wrote: >>Yes. Copland was a product, which was named MacOS 8. It followed a >>strategy, which lacking any other name could be called the Copland >>strategy. Although this strategy also included in its roadmap an eventual >>goal of Gershwin, a product for which there never was any real >>development. > > Thats a bit of confused version of events. Where's the confusion? > Copland as such never shipped. I don't think it ever made it >to develop preview - Sort of. The real DP1 never came together. It was the train wreck that finally occurred. There was, however, an early version which shipped to some developers that was for driver developers. I think I have a copy of the CD in my office somewheres. > on the other hand, I did actually see it once >(at the time it was dog slow and dropped into Macsbug more than once >during book). It was intended to ship as Mac OS 8. Yup, that's what it was called, alright. > The Copland strategy had many things that never really >shipped at all. For example it made enormous use of SOM objects. The >Copland product as designed was very different to the Mac OS 8 that >eventually shipped. Yes, by the time MacOS 8 shipped, Copland was gone and buried. SOM, however, did ship in MacOS 8. In fact, to make Control Strip extensions, you had to use SOM, as I recall. SOM was one of about 6 different component technologies what shipped in Classic MacOS. > The version of OS 8 that shipped was with a very different >strategy and was allegedly codenamed Tempo according to >http://applemuseum.bott.org/sections/codenames.html That does not change the fact that Copland was a code name for a product which would have shipped as MacOS 8. Gershwin would have been MacOS 9. Neither of these products shipped, because the strategy completely foundered. The complete collapse of Copland is what eventually brought NeXT to Apple. The rest is history. > >> >Hint: They were all products >> >>Sort-of. > > What about Pure? Pink? Orient Express? All names for >collections of technology that shared a strategic aim. I don't know what the code names Pure or Orient Express were. Pink was Copland, sort of. It was the starting point that evolved into Copland. I think most of the Pink concepts spawned off into Taligent, another strategy that failed to produce much fruit. Products can still ship and strategies fail. OpenDoc is a great example. (The clock is still ticking on my 1997 prediction that OpenDoc would be the way we build applications in 20 years) Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From aa4lr at mac.com Mon Nov 24 20:17:09 2003 From: aa4lr at mac.com (Bill Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off Message-ID: <20031125040921.CMXJ14203.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> On 11/24/03 12:33 AM, Guy English at genglish@mac.com wrote: >>> Actually, it does have some history -- Star Trek... >> Star Trek is a fable. > >Do you mean fable as in it never existed or fable in that it possibly >only existed in a completely unshipable form? It's a fable in that, if it did exist, the only people that knew about it were under, and are still under NDA. There was a MacWeek article about it eons ago, and there have been oblique references to it. But there's no clear evidence that it was ever a product. >I was led to believe that >it did exist but I'm totally willing to believe it could never have >shipped. It may have existed as a Plan C or D, if a Motorola CPU migration strategy didn't pan out. MAE, however, was the Macintosh Toolbox running on Unix. It was a real product, and actually shipped. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: aa4lr@mac.com Quote: "Boot, you transistorized tormentor! Boot!" -- Archibald Asparagus, VeggieTales From listuser at magicmiles.com Mon Nov 24 20:29:27 2003 From: listuser at magicmiles.com (m i l e s) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, That was pretty funny, good production value and definitely got the point across. Everyone ? Important safety tip...iPod batteries dont last forever. -- M i l e s President & Toolbox Architect MagicMiles Software (413) 374 - 5161 PO Box 414, Northampton, MA 01060 http://www.servicetoolbox.com/ http://www.workshoptoolbox.com/ http://www.healingartstoolbox.com/ http://www.artshoptoolbox.com/ We create content management systems for the rest of us, starting at $25.00 a month, includes domain registration, web hosting, email and webmail. Great for Yoga Teachers, Massage Therapists, Lawyers, Doctors, and any professional! From chad at objectwerks.com Mon Nov 24 20:46:14 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C7BC164-1F02-11D8-81C6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 24, 2003, at 8:08 PM, Fabien Roy wrote: > Dear Sir, > > Not willing to deprive you of your first amendment right, and in the > sake of the truth, iPod battery _ARE_ _NOT_ unreplaceable. I can > understand that this information is not available specially from Apple > tech suppor but any Google search would have pint you to the a > supplier of replacement battery. > > Could you check how you can buy and change the iPod battery at: > . > > Here you will find that you can replace it out of warranty for $49. > Also you can buy for $59 an "AppleCare Protection Plan for iPod" that > will extend up to two years the repair of your iPod (which include > battery replacement). So if you apply for "AppleCare Protection Plan > for iPod" in the last month of your 1 year warranty you will end with > a total of 3 years of warranty. You can also just have Apple replace the battery. Cost is about $100 Chad > > In the name of honesty it would be a good idea to modify or remove > your movie according to the information above. > > Also I wonder if you would do the same complaint if your cell-phone > battery had an estimated life of 18 moths. Would you do the same for > the cell-phone manufacturer. > > Yours. > > Fabien > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From chad at objectwerks.com Mon Nov 24 20:55:09 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <20031124005935.MHGT1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: <56727ABE-1F02-11D8-81C6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 24, 2003, at 8:42 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > At 7:59 PM -0500 11/23/03, Bill Coleman wrote: >> Star Trek is a fable. >> >> How about MAE -- the Mac Toolbox running on various flavors of Unix? > > That's BlueBox. > No its not. It was a separate product for HP/UX and others. Chad From sstevenson at mac.com Mon Nov 24 21:07:17 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 24, 2003, at 8:23 PM, m i l e s wrote: > That was pretty funny, good production value and definitely > got the point across. Unfortunately the point was at least very misleading and perhaps just flat out wrong. The suggestion is that you might as well buy a new iPod after 18 months, which is simply not the case. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From fabienlroy at mac.com Mon Nov 24 21:16:18 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <3C7BC164-1F02-11D8-81C6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <3C7BC164-1F02-11D8-81C6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <19DD3F71-1F05-11D8-B077-000393658196@mac.com> I would be pissed to pay $100 for a battery replacement. At $49 it was some kind of expensive. Fabien On Nov 24, 2003, at 8:45 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > You can also just have Apple replace the battery. Cost is about $100 > > > > Chad From chad at objectwerks.com Mon Nov 24 21:23:17 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <19DD3F71-1F05-11D8-B077-000393658196@mac.com> References: <3C7BC164-1F02-11D8-81C6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> <19DD3F71-1F05-11D8-B077-000393658196@mac.com> Message-ID: <73DD5A69-1F05-11D8-81C6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 24, 2003, at 10:06 PM, Fabien Roy wrote: > I would be pissed to pay $100 for a battery replacement. At $49 it was > some kind of expensive. Hey, I just was pointing out that it is now available directly from Apple. For people who don't want to take their iPods apart, it is a reasonable deal. I am not defending (directly) the cost. There are many cell phones coming out now that don't have user replaceable batteries. When it wears out, you toss the whole phone. (And buy genuine brand cell phone batteries is not cheap either). best Chad > > Fabien > On Nov 24, 2003, at 8:45 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > >> You can also just have Apple replace the battery. Cost is about $100 >> >> >> >> Chad > From dave at difference.com.au Mon Nov 24 21:29:39 2003 From: dave at difference.com.au (David Cake) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <20031125040629.CMAX14203.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> References: <20031125040629.CMAX14203.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: At 11:06 PM -0500 24/11/03, Bill Coleman wrote: >On 11/23/03 9:19 PM, David Cake at dave@difference.com.au wrote: > >>>Yes. Copland was a product, which was named MacOS 8. It followed a >>>strategy, which lacking any other name could be called the Copland >>>strategy. Although this strategy also included in its roadmap an eventual >>>goal of Gershwin, a product for which there never was any real >>>development. >> >> Thats a bit of confused version of events. > >Where's the confusion? While you are aware of the niceties, Copland was only notionally Mac OS 8 (no final decision on name it would be shipped at was made, because it never got close to shipping) and was certainly not the same as the Mac OS 8 that shipped. > > The Copland strategy had many things that never really >>shipped at all. For example it made enormous use of SOM objects. The >>Copland product as designed was very different to the Mac OS 8 that >>eventually shipped. > >Yes, by the time MacOS 8 shipped, Copland was gone and buried. > >SOM, however, did ship in MacOS 8. In fact, to make Control Strip >extensions, you had to use SOM, as I recall. SOM was one of about 6 >different component technologies what shipped in Classic MacOS. Yes, SOM definitely made it, and some little remnants of Copland made it into 8. But I remember being told that pretty much all of the UI widgets system wide were supposed to be SOM in Copland. > >> >Hint: They were all products >>> >>>Sort-of. >> >> What about Pure? Pink? Orient Express? All names for >>collections of technology that shared a strategic aim. > >I don't know what the code names Pure or Orient Express were. Pure was one of the early codenames leading to what officially became Carbon, IIRC. Orient Express was a strategy for CHRP compatibility. >Pink was Copland, sort of. It was the starting point that evolved into >Copland. I think most of the Pink concepts spawned off into Taligent, >another strategy that failed to produce much fruit. Pink was really the strategy to work on features that were not going to make it into the next version of the OS, but to actively work on the next next version at the same time as the next version (System 7). Pink morphed into Taligent, which was a completely different strategy (cross-platform frameworks rather than OO OS) with similar technology, Copland was in part designed to support the Taligent strategy, but did so poorly, not least by its non-appearance. Cheers David From jared at 23x.net Mon Nov 24 23:37:02 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Cupid Stunt: Rob Enderle at COMDEX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1E10CA4D-1F1A-11D8-86BD-000A958F180A@23x.net> On 25 Nov 2003, at 02:28, rogerhoward@mac.com wrote: > WTF kind of criteria is this anyway? The future? Maybe we could narrow > this down a bit? I predict in the future (oooooh, the fuuuuuture) > Microsoft will dominate the then-critical market of candy bars for > nanobots. IBM will return to it's roots building calculating > machines... for REALLY big, futuristic numbers. It's 2003. Where the fsck is my flying car? Where's my tin foil outfit? Why am I not living in the house of the future? Why do I not have bleepers? If the price for Apple's survival is no flying car and no bleepers, I'm not sure the price is worth it ... -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "There is no SPORK" From guy.english at sympatico.ca Tue Nov 25 00:12:36 2003 From: guy.english at sympatico.ca (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: References: <20031125040629.CMAX14203.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> Message-ID: <0DFEC2F5-1F1D-11D8-83D8-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> On Nov 25, 2003, at 12:24 AM, David Cake wrote: > At 11:06 PM -0500 24/11/03, Bill Coleman wrote: >> On 11/23/03 9:19 PM, David Cake at dave@difference.com.au wrote: >> SOM, however, did ship in MacOS 8. In fact, to make Control Strip >> extensions, you had to use SOM, as I recall. SOM was one of about 6 >> different component technologies what shipped in Classic MacOS. > > Yes, SOM definitely made it, and some little remnants of Copland made > it into 8. But I remember being told that pretty much all of the UI > widgets system wide were supposed to be SOM in Copland. SOM was pretty cool actually. I didn't have much experience with it on Mac OS but the Workplace Shell in OS/2 had it in spades. You could do some really great things with it. Of course this was before I'd discovered the OpenStep stuff so it's quite possible I'd hate it these days. Did SOM ever go anywhere on the Mac? It's funny because Microsofts COM was a work alike at around the same time and it's pretty much become the corner stone of much of their technology. SOM just seemed to fizzle with the death of OS/2 and the morass classic Mac OS found itself in. Guy From guy.english at sympatico.ca Tue Nov 25 00:33:47 2003 From: guy.english at sympatico.ca (Guy English) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Refactoring Finder In-Reply-To: References: <2E1FF2F8-1E3F-11D8-83D8-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Nov 24, 2003, at 11:26 AM, Jim Rankin wrote: > Maybe the Path Finder guys could make your dreams come true? I like Path Finder but the I'd actually like less features in it. :) I find the UI pretty cluttered and a little too many nifty things going on for my liking. I understand that they're adding features to attract more users but I find it a little overwhelming. That's not to say I don't appreciate the app. It's one I point to often as an example of a (one man, as far as I know) Cocoa team just wiping the floor with a Carbon team. Guy From pelorus at mac.com Tue Nov 25 01:10:27 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <56727ABE-1F02-11D8-81C6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <20031124005935.MHGT1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> <56727ABE-1F02-11D8-81C6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <3AB2262A-1F25-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 25 Nov 2003, at 04:46, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > On Nov 24, 2003, at 8:42 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: >> At 7:59 PM -0500 11/23/03, Bill Coleman wrote: >>> Star Trek is a fable. >>> How about MAE -- the Mac Toolbox running on various flavors of Unix? >> That's BlueBox. > No its not. It was a separate product for HP/UX and others. It would be interesting to know how much of MAE and A/UX went into Mac OS X. I mean, A/UX was System 7 but it was also seamlessly UNIX. MAE was an emulation - and it was weird seeing the hard drive named "/" I mean - I used both of them - and a lot of a tech we see in Mac OS X seemed to be reinventing the wheel rather than re-using existing tech. I, like a lot of people, reserve the right to have rose tints in our goggles about these products, A/UX on a Quadra was, to my mind, faster than NeXTStep on a Cube. :) Flame away. M -- Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 25 01:52:14 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Cupid Stunt: Rob Enderle at COMDEX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2EA1B74E-1F28-11D8-AC8E-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> > Because we all know that we can subscribe to mailing lists and listen > to jackasses for free! Oh come on. There's a difference in class here, a je ne se quoi, a certain panach? if you will. Everybody knows we are _wankers_ NOT _jackasses_. OK, except Danson maybe. He's a jackass. John's not though. He's just a wanker who doesn't believe he's a wanker and wants to be a jackass, but nevermind, just act normal and everything will be fine. Shame on you perunian muppet, shame on you. j. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 25 02:10:18 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Cupid Stunt: Rob Enderle at COMDEX In-Reply-To: <1E10CA4D-1F1A-11D8-86BD-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <1E10CA4D-1F1A-11D8-86BD-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: <78294110-1F28-11D8-AC8E-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> > Why do I not have bleepers? You _don't_ have bleepers? j. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 25 02:38:26 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Refactoring Finder In-Reply-To: References: <2E1FF2F8-1E3F-11D8-83D8-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <62DD40EC-1F29-11D8-AC8E-00039346B6DA@apinet.es> > I like Path Finder but the I'd actually like less features in it. :) Wouldn't it be cool if they marketed a Lite pathfinder to completely replace the Finder? You know, won't you like something, kind of like, you know: Oooooooh it's EXACTLY like the Finder, but... hey, it actually doesn't get me a beachball while trying to drag a file from a networked volume in my brand new Dual G5 with fresh install of Panther! And what's this? It connects to WebDAV volumes in a snap and everything goes as fast as it goes in frikkin GoLive! OMG. I love these guys! No really, I LOVE them! I want to marry them and go on a honeymoon and get all cozy and stuff and have little Cocoa childs with them and... OK, so that last part probably is getting it a bit too far. We may have to think about children later. [1] j. [1] Cool, Soundtrack has a rimshot loop that I can play everytime I want! From joar at joar.com Tue Nov 25 03:02:12 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Expose for Linux Message-ID: <24E47DEA-1F36-11D8-B95D-000393ADAEE6@joar.com> j o a r From pelorus at mac.com Tue Nov 25 05:43:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Junk Mail....losing the plot Message-ID: <376DB95C-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Okay, Junk Mail has lost the plot for me. I've tried resetting it but it seems that it's a fraction as effective as the Junk Mail filter in Panther. I've got it switched on normally and it's, frankly, less than useless. It's capturing less than 10% of junk that is coming in. On one account, my ISP account, it receives 100 spams a day and Junk Mail captures none of them. It's like it ignores this account. I mean, it caught: Subject: Re: %RND_UC_CHAR[2-8], blackness was quite The ultimate digital cable filter... But it didn't catch: Subject: ALERT: FREE CASH GRANT INFORMATION or Subject: Paris Full Length Video careful I might as well turn it off as it also caught: Subject: RADIATIONS: 11-24-2003 edition -- The Nuketown Forum Launches, Searching for Other Geek Trees and From: Apple Subject: Design the perfect gift at the Apple Store Don't be afraid to take big steps. You can't cross a chasm in two small jumps. From pelorus at mac.com Tue Nov 25 05:52:03 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Lightweight Visual HTML Editor... Message-ID: <55635D38-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Well, it looks like I found what I was looking for.... I was meddling with iBlog and, well, noticed that there was also a trial of Contribute on the .Mac web servers. One download later and I'm certainly thinking of plonking down the ?50 this software would cost (considering the $20 off for .Mac users). It's clean, it's simple, the code doesn't seem cluttered, it reads (but doesn't manage or create) style sheets. It's the visual editor for your Mom. Ad it doesn't cost ?400 like GoLive CS and Dreamweaver MX 2004. Rather pleased. -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ -- Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. From markm at tyrell.com Tue Nov 25 06:57:01 2003 From: markm at tyrell.com (Mark F. Murphy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Tech R&D (long..) (was: New IE Feature... Three Years Off In-Reply-To: <56727ABE-1F02-11D8-81C6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <20031124005935.MHGT1876.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.101]> <56727ABE-1F02-11D8-81C6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: At 9:46 PM -0700 11/24/03, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: >On Nov 24, 2003, at 8:42 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: > >>At 7:59 PM -0500 11/23/03, Bill Coleman wrote: >>>Star Trek is a fable. >>> >>>How about MAE -- the Mac Toolbox running on various flavors of Unix? >> >>That's BlueBox. >> > >No its not. It was a separate product for HP/UX and others. I know it was a separate product. What's I'm saying is it's past technology that ended up being useful for BlueBox. MAE was a full Mac OS running on a target platform. BlueBox is the same thing. The difference is no emulation required for BlueBox as it currently sits on PPC. Also, MAE doesn't support Mac OS 9.x (I think it got up to 7 tops). mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development Tyrell Software Corp --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dinse at niehs.nih.gov Tue Nov 25 07:10:03 2003 From: dinse at niehs.nih.gov (Gregg Dinse) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: faxing questions In-Reply-To: <331624BC-1EC7-11D8-A71D-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> References: <25486276-1EB3-11D8-82BB-003065D8C728@softhome.net> <331624BC-1EC7-11D8-A71D-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> Message-ID: Hi, Karl Kuehn and Michael Wise both suggested using Terminal.app and typing: sudo cat /var/log/fax/cu.modem.log I did this and the contents of cu.modem.log seemed to contain output from some third-party faxing software (FaxCenter) that I bought and installed a while ago (and forgot about). I spent a few minutes playing with FaxCenter and it seems to allow me to send myself an email when a fax is received. There is also a button to click to show a log. So perhaps this will solve my problems. Thanks for the help, Gregg On Nov 24, 2003, at 4:43 PM, Michael J Wise wrote: > On Nov 24, 2003, at 10:42 AM, Gregg Dinse wrote: > >> I just looked in /var/log/fax. There was a single file named >> cu.modem.log, but I could not open it (at least not with TextEdit -- >> and I don't know what other app to try). > > Terminal.app is your friend. > So is sudo, in this case. > > % ls -l /var/log/fax > total 8 > -rw------- 1 root wheel 2857 28 Oct 09:43 cu.modem.log > > Translation: the only one who is allowed to read that file is the > superuser. > > % sudo cat cu.modem.log > > ... will do the trick, if you have administrative access on the > machine in question. > > Aloha mai Nai`a! > -- > "Please have your Internet License http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ > and Usenet Registration handy..." > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk From alexfuller at mac.com Tue Nov 25 07:19:20 2003 From: alexfuller at mac.com (Alex Fuller) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Suggestions for good XML schema / XML editors on Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 24 Nov 2003, at 7:02 pm, Shawn Erickson wrote: > So I am looking for a good Mac OS X tool that can edit XML and XML > schemas including validation and nice syntax features (coloring, > completion, etc.). Also it being a good Mac OS X citizen is highly > desired. > > Any preferences folks have...? Ha ha ha ha ha ha Alex From gerard_iglesias at mac.com Tue Nov 25 07:36:01 2003 From: gerard_iglesias at mac.com (Gerard Iglesias) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Lightweight Visual HTML Editor... In-Reply-To: <55635D38-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <55635D38-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 25, 2003, at 2:43 PM, Matt wrote: > Well, it looks like I found what I was looking for.... > > I was meddling with iBlog and, well, noticed that there was also a > trial of Contribute on the .Mac web servers. One download later and > I'm certainly thinking of plonking down the ?50 this software would > cost (considering the $20 off for .Mac users). > > It's clean, it's simple, the code doesn't seem cluttered, it reads > (but doesn't manage or create) style sheets. It's the visual editor > for your Mom. Ad it doesn't cost ?400 like GoLive CS and Dreamweaver > MX 2004. I would be willing to test it, because it seems to be the thing I am looking for, but never succeeded to install it under Panther, and I am not alone around... ??? Regards Gerard From pelorus at mac.com Tue Nov 25 08:05:28 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Lightweight Visual HTML Editor... In-Reply-To: References: <55635D38-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 25 Nov 2003, at 15:35, Gerard Iglesias wrote: > > On Nov 25, 2003, at 2:43 PM, Matt wrote: > >> Well, it looks like I found what I was looking for.... >> It's clean, it's simple, the code doesn't seem cluttered, it reads >> (but doesn't manage or create) style sheets. It's the visual editor >> for your Mom. Ad it doesn't cost ?400 like GoLive CS and Dreamweaver >> MX 2004. > > I would be willing to test it, because it seems to be the thing I am > looking for, but never succeeded to install it under Panther, and I am > not alone around... ??? Worked first time here? I think it's just you, Gerard! M -- Northern Ireland Mac User Group http://www.nimug.org/ From mstearne at entermix.com Tue Nov 25 08:20:30 2003 From: mstearne at entermix.com (Michael Stearne) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Lightweight Visual HTML Editor... In-Reply-To: <55635D38-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <55635D38-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <4BFC8708-1F62-11D8-BD71-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> Mozilla also has a great Visual HTML edit, Composer. It free and very standards compliant. Michael On Nov 25, 2003, at 8:43 AM, Matt wrote: > Well, it looks like I found what I was looking for.... > > I was meddling with iBlog and, well, noticed that there was also a > trial of Contribute on the .Mac web servers. One download later and > I'm certainly thinking of plonking down the ?50 this software would > cost (considering the $20 off for .Mac users). > > It's clean, it's simple, the code doesn't seem cluttered, it reads > (but doesn't manage or create) style sheets. It's the visual editor > for your Mom. Ad it doesn't cost ?400 like GoLive CS and Dreamweaver > MX 2004. > > Rather pleased. > > > > -- > Northern Ireland Mac User Group > http://www.nimug.org/ > > > -- > Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > From pelorus at mac.com Tue Nov 25 08:39:15 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Lightweight Visual HTML Editor... In-Reply-To: <4BFC8708-1F62-11D8-BD71-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> References: <55635D38-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <4BFC8708-1F62-11D8-BD71-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> Message-ID: On 25 Nov 2003, at 16:13, Michael Stearne wrote: > Mozilla also has a great Visual HTML edit, Composer. It free and very > standards compliant. While it's free and standards compliant, I'm missing out on the "great". Can you elaborate? From shawnce at mac.com Tue Nov 25 08:47:16 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Expose for Linux In-Reply-To: <24E47DEA-1F36-11D8-B95D-000393ADAEE6@joar.com> References: <24E47DEA-1F36-11D8-B95D-000393ADAEE6@joar.com> Message-ID: <56CF3088-1F65-11D8-8E38-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Nov 25, 2003, at 2:57 AM, j o a r wrote: > Fairly sad attempt but understandable given the abstractions and constructs that exist in X windows. It is will be hard to do the "right way" without a windowing system like Quartz or specialized hardware support and some hacking. -Shawn From shawnce at mac.com Tue Nov 25 08:58:58 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Suggestions for good XML schema / XML editors on Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9D0D5DDB-1F66-11D8-8E38-000A95A6C778@mac.com> On Nov 25, 2003, at 7:04 AM, Alex Fuller wrote: > > On 24 Nov 2003, at 7:02 pm, Shawn Erickson wrote: > >> So I am looking for a good Mac OS X tool that can edit XML and XML >> schemas including validation and nice syntax features (coloring, >> completion, etc.). Also it being a good Mac OS X citizen is highly >> desired. >> >> Any preferences folks have...? > > Ha ha ha ha ha ha You mocking me? ;-) Feel my pain... Well so far all of the ones I could find for Mac OS X generally suck. XMLSpy feels the best of all of the ones I could find usability wise but it doesn't support Mac OS X. Oh if I had the time to author a better tool (and the needed design skills for this type of application...). Yo Omni Group guys would you do some magic here? (granted not a big market but I would pay) -Shawn From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Tue Nov 25 09:03:22 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Refactoring Finder In-Reply-To: References: <2E1FF2F8-1E3F-11D8-83D8-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <0DAC435E-1F68-11D8-9B15-0003930EB8B0@mac.com> On Nov 25, 2003, at 3:03 AM, Guy English wrote: > I like Path Finder but the I'd actually like less features in it. :) I > find the UI pretty cluttered and a little too many nifty things going > on for my liking. Well, really what I had in mind was, like you say, taking away features and presenting a mode that worked almost exactly like the much mourned "spatial Finder". It could even be a separate download, so as not to confuse people who might otherwise accidentally end up in the "browser" Path Finder. Or just have a really good way to lock into spatial Finder mode that couldn't accidentally slip back into browser Finder mode. In any case, whatever you want I still think CocoaTech will be more responsive to requests than Apple could be. Maybe Mr. Spatial Finder himself, John Siracusa, could start an online petition for people willing to pay something to get back the spatial Finder, and forward the results to CocoaTech. -jimbo Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1098 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031125/cdca386e/attachment.bin From mstearne at entermix.com Tue Nov 25 09:18:13 2003 From: mstearne at entermix.com (Michael Stearne) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Lightweight Visual HTML Editor... In-Reply-To: References: <55635D38-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <4BFC8708-1F62-11D8-BD71-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> Message-ID: <5CAE7A64-1F69-11D8-BD71-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> On Nov 25, 2003, at 11:31 AM, Matt wrote: > On 25 Nov 2003, at 16:13, Michael Stearne wrote: > >> Mozilla also has a great Visual HTML edit, Composer. It free and >> very standards compliant. > > While it's free and standards compliant, I'm missing out on the > "great". Can you elaborate? > Its great in that it does easily what a Visual HTML editor should do (especially for a blog), tables, style, generated CSS, etc. Because its standards compliant and multi-platform and Free its also great. MIchael > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > > From rogerhoward at mac.com Tue Nov 25 09:26:08 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Suggestions for good XML schema / XML editors on Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <9D0D5DDB-1F66-11D8-8E38-000A95A6C778@mac.com> Message-ID: On Tuesday, November 25, 2003, at 08:44 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > > On Nov 25, 2003, at 7:04 AM, Alex Fuller wrote: > >> >> On 24 Nov 2003, at 7:02 pm, Shawn Erickson wrote: >> >>> So I am looking for a good Mac OS X tool that can edit XML and XML >>> schemas including validation and nice syntax features (coloring, >>> completion, etc.). Also it being a good Mac OS X citizen is highly >>> desired. >>> >>> Any preferences folks have...? >> >> Ha ha ha ha ha ha > > You mocking me? ;-) > > Feel my pain... > > Well so far all of the ones I could find for Mac OS X generally suck. > XMLSpy feels the best of all of the ones I could find usability wise > but it doesn't support Mac OS X. Oh if I had the time to author a > better tool (and the needed design skills for this type of > application...). I always expected BBEdit to climb in and solve problems for this market... it's still an excellent all-purpose editor, but it's not an IDE (duh), which is what we need for XML on the Mac. Yeah, XML Spy rules :( -R From jimbokun_lists at mac.com Tue Nov 25 09:29:35 2003 From: jimbokun_lists at mac.com (Jim Rankin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Suggestions for good XML schema / XML editors on Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <9D0D5DDB-1F66-11D8-8E38-000A95A6C778@mac.com> References: <9D0D5DDB-1F66-11D8-8E38-000A95A6C778@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 25, 2003, at 11:44 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > Well so far all of the ones I could find for Mac OS X generally suck. > XMLSpy feels the best of all of the ones I could find usability wise > but it doesn't support Mac OS X. Oh if I had the time to author a > better tool (and the needed design skills for this type of > application...). > > Yo Omni Group guys would you do some magic here? (granted not a big > market but I would pay) > I'm considering taking a shot at this. What features would be at the top of all yinz[1] lists? -jimbo [1] Pittsburgh plural for you Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 718 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031125/1fe2554a/attachment.bin From johnwilley at mac.com Tue Nov 25 09:33:02 2003 From: johnwilley at mac.com (John Willey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Lightweight Visual HTML Editor... In-Reply-To: References: <55635D38-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 25, 2003, at 10:35 AM, Gerard Iglesias wrote: > > On Nov 25, 2003, at 2:43 PM, Matt wrote: > >> Well, it looks like I found what I was looking for.... >> >> I was meddling with iBlog and, well, noticed that there was also a >> trial of Contribute on the .Mac web servers. One download later and >> I'm certainly thinking of plonking down the ?50 this software would >> cost (considering the $20 off for .Mac users). >> >> It's clean, it's simple, the code doesn't seem cluttered, it reads >> (but doesn't manage or create) style sheets. It's the visual editor >> for your Mom. Ad it doesn't cost ?400 like GoLive CS and Dreamweaver >> MX 2004. > > I would be willing to test it, because it seems to be the thing I am > looking for, but never succeeded to install it under Panther, and I am > not alone around... ??? I had the same problem. Installer starts, finishes, and nothing is installed. John From kremels at kreme.com Tue Nov 25 09:46:16 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Change user at screensaver password dialog? In-Reply-To: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F0495EC6D@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> References: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F0495EC6D@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> Message-ID: <93F6A838-1F6E-11D8-9529-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 24 Nov 2003, at 12:53, Guy Umbright wrote: > Is there any way to allow a different user to log in at the screen > saver > login dialog? It seems like a reasonable thing to be able to do as > someone walked away from the the machine and someone else wants to use > it... Enable "Switch Users" in Panther. -- There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. From registrant at petmystone.com Tue Nov 25 10:59:08 2003 From: registrant at petmystone.com (Timothy Stone) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Starting a process as low level user... In-Reply-To: <4570F236-1E19-11D8-9E61-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> References: <80C0DA56-1C90-11D8-B0D0-00039375836C@petmystone.com> <5AA750EC-1CAB-11D8-98B9-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> <96A92B02-1DC2-11D8-8602-00039375836C@petmystone.com> <72F9F6FC-1DD7-11D8-A54C-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> <6C4E30DA-1E15-11D8-8DCF-00039375836C@petmystone.com> <4570F236-1E19-11D8-9E61-003065FB84BC@kapu.net> Message-ID: <3FC3A2BF.5040309@petmystone.com> List, et. al, I have finally been successful in getting a low-privileged user to start a process at boot in Mac OS X. A tremendous thank you each that replied and offered suggestions, helping me in my investigation. It is documented for posterity on this list. ** Background: Mac OS X provides a facility via scripts and XML property lists in the user configurable /Library/StartupItems folder to start processes at boot. This process is well documented in Jepson and Rothman's /Mac OS X for Unix Geeks/ published by O'Reilly. Coming soon, /Mac OS X Panther for Unix Geeks/ Unanswered however is how to run the startup process as low-privileged user. The journey began for me as I wanted to create a boot routine for Tomcat. Tomcat is a Java Servlet/JSP Container that runs in a JVM. The idea of boot processes is supported in many other Unix/BSD style OSs, including Mac OS X. Mac OS X however does things just different enough that I was stumped for a couple of days, in fact left with some questions (found at the end) that one may wish to answer. ** Trial and Tribulation The Startup process is well documented in Jepson-Rothman. *However, it should be noted that all Mac OS X startup scripts are executed in the _root_ context.* It is a generally excepted security principle that publicly available services should not run as root. Instead these processes should run as a low-level, low-privileged user. Many Unix/BSDs OSs provide special users for this very purpose and Mac OS X is no different. Red Hat has the apache user, Mac OS X and OpenBSD have the www user. Getting the established StartupItems script to execute as root proved trivial. It was getting the process to start as or switch to a low-privileged user that proved difficult. I took my leads from Red Hat and OpenBSD, but to no avail. Red Hat starts Tomcat based on a test of the system configuration (the variables are defined in a tomcat configuration file): 1 if [ -x /etc/rc.d/init.d/functions ]; then 2 daemon --user $TOMCAT_USER $TOMCAT_SCRIPT/startup.sh 3 else 4 su - $TOMCAT_USER -c "$TOMCAT_SCRIPT/startup.sh" 5 fi OpenBSD does it slightly different (from /Tomcat:TDG/ by Jason Brittain, Ian F. Darwin): 1 if [ -x /usr/local/sbin/tomcat ]; then 2 echo -n ' tomcat' 3 (export CATALINA_HOME=/path/to/tomcat/root 4 export JAVA_HOME=/path/to/java/root 5 exec /usr/bin/su www ${CATALINA_HOME}/bin/startup.sh 6 ) 7 fi It's interesting to note that both provide a way to switch or execute the process as another user at boot. How? via `su'. On line 2 of the Red Hat sample `daemon' is used, a method not available in Mac OS X. On line 4, `su' is executed, using the "-" switch preceding the username thus also asking `su' to provide a login subshell. Conversely, on line 5 of the OpenBSD example, no login shell is provided (though a similar convention however is available in `su' on OpenBSD). This is especially interesting considering OpenBSD's record of security and will be revisited below. `su', a.k.a. substitute user, switch user, or other, "allows one user to temporarily become another user." Without dryly redocumenting how `su' works in these contexts I'll leave it to the reader to investigate further. The interesting part is that Mac OS X does not work in a similar manner. ... snip 5 StartService() { 6 if[ "${TOMCAT}=-NO-" = "-YES-" ]; then 7 ConsoleMessage "Starting tomcat..." 8 su tomcat -c /path/to/tomcat/startup.sh & 9 fi 10 } ... snip Line 4 will fail and exit with a status message: % su - Password: # cd /Library/StartupItems/Tomcat/ # ./Tomcat start # su: /dev/null: Permission denied. Huh? Permission denied? This is root. The superuser. (The above code and stderr credits that a) one has followed Jepson-Rothman's documentation on creating a startup script in the proper place, b) created the low-privileged user tomcat, and c) installed Tomcat with properly executable permissions, Brittain-Darwin suggest 750, rwxr-x---) Is Mac OS X honoring the tight security of a low-privileged user? Well, yes and no. The user in question has no home or shell, other than the bit-bucket, or /dev/null. The call to `su' is likely switching properly to user tomcat, but the shell is, well, null. And Boom! At least that's how I'm interpreting the error. ** Finding The Answer If you made it this far, you're likely asking: "Hey, Mac OS X's `su' does provide a method of providing a shell! Just change the line to, 'su tomcat -c /bin/bash /path/to/tomcat/startup.sh &'." But I caution the reader, yes the "-c" switch takes a shell for the user but would that defeat the purpose of not giving the user a shell in the first place? Better safe than sorry. Thus, and it should be noted, I did not test this as I wished not to provide a shell to user tomcat for said security concerns. Recall that OpenBSD does not provide a shell to the low-privileged user, either directly via the "-s" switch or via "-" or "-l". It was a non-starter for me as security ultimately trumps convenience to an extent where a service could be cracked. So what works? Interestingly enough, `sudo'! ... 5 StartService() { 6 if[ "${TOMCAT}=-NO-" = "-YES-" ]; then 7 ConsoleMessage "Starting tomcat..." 8 sudo -u tomcat /path/to/tomcat/startup.sh & 9 fi 10 } ... Why does this work? I would have assumed that internally root would have been prompted for a password for user tomcat. This does not appear to be the case. In the end, this single line works. Tomcat is started at boot as the tomcat user. Finally, one might be asking why all this investigation? Why not turn to Jakarta Commons Daemon (as documented in Brittian-Darwin)? 1) The Commons-Daemon project is early beta 2) I sought a Mac OS X native method *at boot* versus an external service or post-boot command|script. Again thank you for reading, providing help and more. Hopefully, this will provide not just how, but why for the inquisitive mind on getting a boot process in Mac OS X running as a low-privileged user. ** Questions to be answered by the more experienced Unix/Mac OS X user 1. Is there an equivalent `daemon --user' command in Mac OS X, a la Red Hat? 2. Does executing `su - tomcat -c /bin/bash /path/to/script &' provide a shell to an otherwise low-privileged user that could be exploited in a security incident? OpenBSD seems to shy away from this option. 3. Is root, via the sudoers file, provided some loophole to the password prompt? I could not locate any such loophole or configuration that tells me. Maybe when executed as root, `sudo' errs to "why bother?" :) 4. Is using `sudo' bad form with it's own security issues? Thus making this investigation moot. Warmest Regards and Thanks, Tim From tritchey at mac.com Tue Nov 25 11:23:03 2003 From: tritchey at mac.com (Timothy Ritchey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Suggestions for good XML schema / XML editors on Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: <9D0D5DDB-1F66-11D8-8E38-000A95A6C778@mac.com> Message-ID: <2D6A8A4A-1F78-11D8-B124-000A95A66DC4@mac.com> I started work on an editor some time ago. Syntax highlighting, outline, validation, autocomplete, etc. because I couldn't find anything out there that I liked. When I heard there were going to be some important changes to the Panther text system, I took a breather since I wasn't sure how much would break. I just dusted off the code and did a build. Here is a quick screenshot - my apologies to those that hate textured windows :-) I need to figure out how to do a capture with the autocomplete pane showing. Anyway, I've got a pile of code that might be a good place for someone to start. - tim On Nov 25, 2003, at 12:13 PM, Jim Rankin wrote: > > On Nov 25, 2003, at 11:44 AM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > >> Well so far all of the ones I could find for Mac OS X generally suck. >> XMLSpy feels the best of all of the ones I could find usability wise >> but it doesn't support Mac OS X. Oh if I had the time to author a >> better tool (and the needed design skills for this type of >> application...). >> >> Yo Omni Group guys would you do some magic here? (granted not a big >> market but I would pay) >> > I'm considering taking a shot at this. What features would be at the > top of all yinz[1] lists? > > -jimbo > > [1] Pittsburgh plural for you > > Excelsior! XML Marshaller for Cocoa > http://www.homepage.mac.com/jimbokun/Excelsior.html From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 25 11:37:08 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Quick question about disk images In-Reply-To: <93F6A838-1F6E-11D8-9529-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <45CE1FBFCDAD2E4DA84B49F2F866FC4F0495EC6D@talchiexch02.taltrade.com> <93F6A838-1F6E-11D8-9529-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <7855986C-1F7E-11D8-A819-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> I know it's not the place, but for the love of Uma Thurman that I swear that I have not been able to grab this from anywhere in the web (damn you Google, damn you!). Apparently, Internet search facilities only show you relevant information in the first 15 pages if you are NOT in a deadline. :-( I have a writable disk image with a nice background (hidden image file) and all. It looks cool and all. What I want to do is: - Convert this image to a non writable format maintaining icon position and background. Apparently, just converting with disk utility doesn't work (it will open the window in your usual Finder view, missing all the fun). - Make the image to open the window automatically. I thought that was going to be as simple as unmounting the image with the window open, but it's not :-( Any quick pointers? Thanks! j. From rogerhoward at mac.com Tue Nov 25 12:29:04 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (rogerhoward@mac.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Quick question about disk images In-Reply-To: <7855986C-1F7E-11D8-A819-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> Message-ID: <7F465149-1F83-11D8-BB2A-003065B2B6C4@mac.com> On Tuesday, November 25, 2003, at 11:35 AM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > I know it's not the place, but for the love of Uma Thurman that I > swear that I have not been able to grab this from anywhere in the web > (damn you Google, damn you!). Apparently, Internet search facilities > only show you relevant information in the first 15 pages if you are > NOT in a deadline. :-( > > I have a writable disk image with a nice background (hidden image > file) and all. It looks cool and all. > > What I want to do is: > > - Convert this image to a non writable format maintaining icon > position and background. Apparently, just converting with disk utility > doesn't work (it will open the window in your usual Finder view, > missing all the fun). > > - Make the image to open the window automatically. I thought that was > going to be as simple as unmounting the image with the window open, > but it's not :-( > > Any quick pointers? Get a life? :-P Oh, wait.. From lists at mk27.com Tue Nov 25 13:23:50 2003 From: lists at mk27.com (Todd R. Warfel) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Looking for Time-Tracking App (Mac) Message-ID: <31B90764-1F8B-11D8-8FAC-003065D62A38@mk27.com> I'm looking for a time tracking application. And I'm running Mac OS X Panther. So, either X, or Web-based is good. I'd prefer free (wouldn't we all), but am willing to pay for the right application. I've considered whipping something up in either Excel or FMP, but if there's something out there that will suit my needs, then I'll pay vs. build. I have FastTrack Scheduler for Project Management. That's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for something simpler to log my hours into for our small firm (3 people). Here's what I'd like: Must haves: 1) Log time 2) Calculate hours 3) Ability to enter an hourly rate (varies per client) 4) Calculate billed hours X rate = amount owed Like to have: 1) Track projected hours against hours used Thoughts? Cheers! Todd R. Warfel User Experience Architect MessageFirst | making products easier to use -------------------------------------- Contact Info voice: (607) 339-9640 email: twarfel@messagefirst.com web: www.messagefirst.com aim: twarfel@mac.com -------------------------------------- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1370 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031125/1df13696/attachment.bin From donofrio at umich.edu Tue Nov 25 13:26:16 2003 From: donofrio at umich.edu (Donofrio, Lewis) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Xine for OSX? Message-ID: <2B9E513B830F8D4C9B746125D427E557019684F1@lsa-m1.lsa.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Anyone know where I can download the pkg file for Xine? --I'll compile if necessary but I'd rather not.... ______________________________________________________________________ Lewis Donofrio@umich.edu College of Literature, Science, & Arts 1007 East Huron, Room 201, BetaID:243340 Cell: (734) 323-8776 Ann Arbor,MI 48104-1690 www.umich.edu/~donofrio Fax: (734) 647-8333 From mark at imap-partners.net Tue Nov 25 13:52:05 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Looking for Time-Tracking App (Mac) In-Reply-To: <31B90764-1F8B-11D8-8FAC-003065D62A38@mk27.com> References: <31B90764-1F8B-11D8-8FAC-003065D62A38@mk27.com> Message-ID: <37C0366A-1F90-11D8-8117-000A958A3014@imap-partners.net> On 25 Nov 2003, at 22:06, Todd R. Warfel wrote: > I'm looking for a time tracking application. Same here, I'm considering these three (none free): Time Equals Money iWork Studiometry mark. From lomion at mac.com Tue Nov 25 14:03:51 2003 From: lomion at mac.com (Lawrence Sica) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Looking for Time-Tracking App (Mac) In-Reply-To: <31B90764-1F8B-11D8-8FAC-003065D62A38@mk27.com> References: <31B90764-1F8B-11D8-8FAC-003065D62A38@mk27.com> Message-ID: <75B8ABE4-1F90-11D8-B07F-000393A335A2@mac.com> On Nov 25, 2003, at 4:06 PM, Todd R. Warfel wrote: > I'm looking for a time tracking application. And I'm running Mac OS X > Panther. So, either X, or Web-based is good. I'd prefer free (wouldn't > we all), but am willing to pay for the right application. I've > considered whipping something up in either Excel or FMP, but if > there's something out there that will suit my needs, then I'll pay vs. > build. > > I have FastTrack Scheduler for Project Management. That's not what I'm > looking for. I'm looking for something simpler to log my hours into > for our small firm (3 people). Here's what I'd like: > > Must haves: > 1) Log time > 2) Calculate hours > 3) Ability to enter an hourly rate (varies per client) > 4) Calculate billed hours X rate = amount owed > > Like to have: > 1) Track projected hours against hours used > Try iWork : http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/17264 I use it and like it. --Larry From robert.palmer at ipix.com Tue Nov 25 14:06:03 2003 From: robert.palmer at ipix.com (Robert G Palmer Jr) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Looking for Time-Tracking App (Mac) In-Reply-To: <31B90764-1F8B-11D8-8FAC-003065D62A38@mk27.com> References: <31B90764-1F8B-11D8-8FAC-003065D62A38@mk27.com> Message-ID: <0067C8D3-1F91-11D8-B020-000A27D75612@ipix.com> I've used two or three different ones. There are about 5 or 6 listed on version tracker. Each with various pluses and minuses. They are all rated, some are free, some are shareware. Robert Palmer, Jr robert.palmer@ipix.com On Nov 25, 2003, at 4:06 PM, Todd R. Warfel wrote: > I'm looking for a time tracking application. And I'm running Mac OS X > Panther. So, either X, or Web-based is good. I'd prefer free (wouldn't > we all), but am willing to pay for the right application. I've > considered whipping something up in either Excel or FMP, but if there's > something out there that will suit my needs, then I'll pay vs. build. > > I have FastTrack Scheduler for Project Management. That's not what I'm > looking for. I'm looking for something simpler to log my hours into for > our small firm (3 people). Here's what I'd like: > > Must haves: > 1) Log time > 2) Calculate hours > 3) Ability to enter an hourly rate (varies per client) > 4) Calculate billed hours X rate = amount owed > > Like to have: > 1) Track projected hours against hours used > > Thoughts? > > Cheers! > > Todd R. Warfel > User Experience Architect > MessageFirst | making products easier to use > -------------------------------------- > Contact Info > voice: (607) 339-9640 > email: twarfel@messagefirst.com > web: www.messagefirst.com > aim: twarfel@mac.com > -------------------------------------- > In theory, theory and practice are the same. > In practice, they are not. From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Nov 25 14:34:17 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Looking for Time-Tracking App (Mac) In-Reply-To: <37C0366A-1F90-11D8-8117-000A958A3014@imap-partners.net> References: <31B90764-1F8B-11D8-8FAC-003065D62A38@mk27.com> <37C0366A-1F90-11D8-8117-000A958A3014@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: <774BC352-1F95-11D8-81C6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 25, 2003, at 2:42 PM, mark wrote: > > On 25 Nov 2003, at 22:06, Todd R. Warfel wrote: > >> I'm looking for a time tracking application. > > Same here, I'm considering these three (none free): > > Time Equals Money > Btw, here is a URL for this I have not used it so have no comment on the actual sw. Andy Stone is a good guy though... Chad From crusader_x at mac.com Tue Nov 25 17:09:35 2003 From: crusader_x at mac.com (RogueWriter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Problem with Panther Finder? Message-ID: I've noticed some strange behavior in the Finder lately. I'm running X.3.1 and I upgraded instead of doing a clean install. Hardware is: 800mhz PowerBook G4 (DVI), gig ram. Here's what's going on: Sometimes when I open a folder, it doesn't display the contents. I just get the little sundial spinning and it will sit there for minutes. I click the back button, then the forward button, and the contents are there. On a possibly related note, sometimes disk images won't load, and Disk Utility shows behavior similar to above. It doesn't see any disks, all I get is the sundial. I never get the beachball, the system doesn't really bog down that much. It's just weird. Any ideas on what's causing it? Should I do a clean install? Thanks. Erick From nadeama2 at videotron.ca Tue Nov 25 17:26:12 2003 From: nadeama2 at videotron.ca (Martin Nadeau) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> On Nov 24, 2003, at 23:51, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Nov 24, 2003, at 8:23 PM, m i l e s wrote: > >> That was pretty funny, good production value and definitely >> got the point across. > > Unfortunately the point was at least very misleading and perhaps just > flat out wrong. > > The suggestion is that you might as well buy a new iPod after 18 > months, which is simply not the case. Well, it seems that's what the guy was officialy told by Apple through their technical support line (unless they faked that part of the video, but it seems unlikely). He said "$255, so you might as well get a new one". I know I would never buy a relatively expansive device like this if there's no *easy* way for the consumer to change the battery. That doesn't go only for the iPod, but also for those cell phones that others were talking about, or any other device. I wasn't aware of this, so I'm glad I saw the movie. I'm not really into portable players, but if I ever plan to buy an iPod, this is something I will definitely inquire about. -- Martin Nadeau From shawnce at mac.com Tue Nov 25 17:36:27 2003 From: shawnce at mac.com (Shawn Erickson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Problem with Panther Finder? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 25, 2003, at 4:51 PM, RogueWriter wrote: > I've noticed some strange behavior in the Finder lately. I'm running > X.3.1 and I upgraded instead of doing a clean install. Hardware is: > 800mhz PowerBook G4 (DVI), gig ram. > > Here's what's going on: Sometimes when I open a folder, it doesn't > display the contents. I just get the little sundial spinning and it > will sit there for minutes. I click the back button, then the forward > button, and the contents are there. > > On a possibly related note, sometimes disk images won't load, and Disk > Utility shows behavior similar to above. It doesn't see any disks, > all I get is the sundial. > > I never get the beachball, the system doesn't really bog down that > much. It's just weird. > > Any ideas on what's causing it? Nope none at the moment... spinning sundial? you mean the wrist watch? It sounds like some type of event or notification is being missed in Finder. Humm how to track this down... anything in the console log? > Should I do a clean install? No, no need to reinstall. Send me the PowerBook instead, problem solved. -Shawn From chickxsy at sensewave.com Tue Nov 25 17:39:24 2003 From: chickxsy at sensewave.com (Barbro Maria Haveland) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: Junk Mail....losing the plot In-Reply-To: <376DB95C-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <376DB95C-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 25. nov. 2003, at 14.42, Matt wrote: > I've got it switched on normally and it's, frankly, less than useless. > It's capturing less than 10% of junk that is coming in. On one > account, my ISP account, it receives 100 spams a day and Junk Mail > captures none of them. It's like it ignores this account. Works like a charm for me, hardly see any spam anymore, and haven't had any "mis-junk'ings" the last week either (false positives, isn't that the term?) Did you remember to train it well before you put it on "Automatic"? I seem to remember a splash screen about how important this was or something when I first booted up the system. -- Barb. aka Chickxsy From kremels at kreme.com Tue Nov 25 17:47:58 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:35 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: <7A573393-1EA8-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <7A573393-1EA8-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <3C4C9661-1FB0-11D8-A253-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 24 Nov 2003, at 11:03, Martin Nadeau wrote: > What do you mean by crippleware? Like most shareware programs, it has > features that are disabled until you register. Nothing is crippled > once you've paid the registration fee. Do you consider all demo > applications that have some features disabled to be "crippleware"? Yes. that is waht crippleware means > -- "Ironically, they lost the gigahertz game," he said of Intel. "(The G5) is extremely faster than the Itanium II, hands down." - Srinidhi Varadarajan, Virginia Tech -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031125/a8f319fe/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Tue Nov 25 17:49:03 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: <7A573393-1EA8-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <7A573393-1EA8-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <6EF8D153-1FB0-11D8-A253-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 24 Nov 2003, at 11:03, Martin Nadeau wrote: > What do you mean by crippleware? Like most shareware programs, it has > features that are disabled until you register. Nothing is crippled > once you've paid the registration fee. Do you consider all demo > applications that have some features disabled to be "crippleware"? Yes. that is waht crippleware means (forgot the definition) crippleware n. 1. [common] Software that has some important functionality deliberately removed, so as to entice potential users to pay for a working version. 2. [Cambridge] Variety of guiltware that exhorts you to donate to some charity (compare careware, nagware). 3. Hardware deliberately crippled, which can be upgraded to a more expensive model by a trivial change (e.g., cutting a jumper). An excellent example of crippleware (sense 3) is Intel's 486SX chip, which is a standard 486DX chip with the co-processor diked out (in some early versions it was present but disabled). To upgrade, you buy a complete 486DX chip with _working_ co-processor (its identity thinly veiled by a different pinout) and plug it into the board's expansion socket. It then disables the SX, which becomes a fancy power sink. Don't you love Intel? > -- "Ironically, they lost the gigahertz game," he said of Intel. "(The G5) is extremely faster than the Itanium II, hands down." - Srinidhi Varadarajan, Virginia Tech -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031125/a2b5246e/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Tue Nov 25 17:50:26 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: <3D33111F-1EB3-11D8-8117-000A958A3014@imap-partners.net> References: <7A573393-1EA8-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <3D33111F-1EB3-11D8-8117-000A958A3014@imap-partners.net> Message-ID: On 24 Nov 2003, at 12:20, mark wrote: > I don't agree with Chuck's big 5. I'd recommend Halime. It doesn't > have the power of MT Newswatcher or Hogwasher (yet), but it is far and > away the best OS X citizen and does everything I need. It doesn't handle mime well (at all?) and if a newsreader can't download porn of USENET what use is it? :) Seriously though, I use slrn for the occasional mail reading. Yes, it's cli, but it's fast and very easy to setup and use. -- And the three men I admire most, the father son and the holly ghost, they caught the last train for the coast... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031125/0af8ae62/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Tue Nov 25 17:51:58 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: <5AAC0DDE-1EE5-11D8-87E1-000393102F9E@ApesSeekingKnowledge.net> References: <5AAC0DDE-1EE5-11D8-87E1-000393102F9E@ApesSeekingKnowledge.net> Message-ID: On 24 Nov 2003, at 18:19, Joe Block wrote: > I use MT-Newswatcher because of scoring time-limited filters, > hierarchially applied. For example, I have a filter that adds 10 to > the score in comp.sys.mac.* if the sender has @apple.com in their > email address. I have other filters that subtract score points based > on keywords in the message subject, others that add, others that > subtract 100 points for certain specific email addresses, other > filters that automatically remove 25 points if the message has been > cross-posted to more than 3 groups. When a thread grows tiresome, I > add temporary filters that remove N points from the score, set to > automatically delete themselves when two weeks have gone by since the > last time the filter was triggered. If you know how to write regexes, > you can use them in filters too, which adds considerably to their > power. Sounds like slrn, actually. -- No man is free who is not master of himself -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031125/379506f7/smime.bin From kremels at kreme.com Tue Nov 25 17:55:03 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: Cupid Stunt: Rob Enderle at COMDEX In-Reply-To: <7E1C8941-1EDA-11D8-BA10-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <7E1C8941-1EDA-11D8-BA10-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <84807812-1FB1-11D8-A253-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 24 Nov 2003, at 17:01, Matt wrote: > ... I also asked which companies would be dead. The panel agreed that > it would be Apple, Sun and Novell. The panel also agreed that if it > didn't run on the x86 architecture, it was likely gone. " Was this in 1984? 1984? 1994? 1996? Same old song and dance. Apple will outlast Mickeysoft because at some point the 'publicans will no longer be able to protect them and the courts will rip them to shred. -- Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031125/e03c7bcc/smime.bin From sstevenson at mac.com Tue Nov 25 18:23:32 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <4B39A200-1FB3-11D8-810C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 25, 2003, at 5:18 PM, Martin Nadeau wrote: >> The suggestion is that you might as well buy a new iPod after 18 >> months, which is simply not the case. > > Well, it seems that's what the guy was officialy told by Apple through > their technical support line (unless they faked that part of the > video, but it seems unlikely). He said "$255, so you might as well get > a new one". I think you've missed my point. Do all iPod batteries die after 18 months? - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Tue Nov 25 18:37:41 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: El Nov 26, 2003, a las 2:18 AM, Martin Nadeau escribi?: > I wasn't aware of this, so I'm glad I saw the movie. I'm not really > into portable players, but if I ever plan to buy an iPod, this is > something I will definitely inquire about. What the hell are you talking about? Didn't you read Scott's messages and the rest? Why are you glad about seeing a movie which is flat-out lying about the situation with iPod batteries? FACT 1: You can get Apple exchange the battery for $99, labor and parts included. FACT 2: You can get a battery AND replace it yourself if you have the nerve to open one. FACT 3: The guy who did the video did it fine and dandy, but he's a moron because he didn't ever care about checking Facts 1 and 2. This is what Scott and others have said in this thread, yet, you finish your mail with: > I wasn't aware of this, so I'm glad I saw the movie. I'm not really > into portable players, but if I ever plan to buy an iPod, this is > something I will definitely inquire about. So indeed. The dork just fucked up, people tell you so and yet you end your message with that. Clearly, the guy got his "point" across. Geezus. j. From tallama at mac.com Tue Nov 25 22:35:04 2003 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: iPod vs Dell DJ Message-ID: <525CC4F2-1FDA-11D8-B612-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> Quick perusal looks very positive toward the iPod, but a closer reading sounds much less negative toward the DJ. He calls it a 'brick' and a 'Bizarro' (repeatedly) but the specifics he mentions don't seem to be too huge (there's some very valid points, but nothing too huge). Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031125/7c95d627/smime.bin From nadeama2 at videotron.ca Tue Nov 25 22:48:04 2003 From: nadeama2 at videotron.ca (Martin Nadeau) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <4B39A200-1FB3-11D8-810C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <4B39A200-1FB3-11D8-810C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <882C314A-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> On Nov 25, 2003, at 20:53, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > On Nov 25, 2003, at 5:18 PM, Martin Nadeau wrote: > >>> The suggestion is that you might as well buy a new iPod after 18 >>> months, which is simply not the case. >> >> Well, it seems that's what the guy was officialy told by Apple >> through their technical support line (unless they faked that part of >> the video, but it seems unlikely). He said "$255, so you might as >> well get a new one". > > I think you've missed my point. > > Do all iPod batteries die after 18 months? Yes, I did indeed miss your point, sorry about that. Also, I thought I had read all the messages in the thread but I think I must definitely have missed a few. Having said that, the tech support guy in the movie does say that after one year (I guess that's when the warranty on an iPod expires) your only options are to send it back to Apple to get it refurbished for $255, or to buy a new one. Now, from reading the messages here on the list there are obviously other solutions, but not everyone will know that. Most people will likely go with what Apple tech support tells them and won't be too happy to pay $255 (or even $100, as was mentioned in another message) to get a battery replaced. The option of replacing it yourself should be made clear by the Apple tech. IMHO, of course. As for the battery life, how long are they normally supposed to last anyway (with "average" use)? -- Martin Nadeau From nadeama2 at videotron.ca Tue Nov 25 22:55:58 2003 From: nadeama2 at videotron.ca (Martin Nadeau) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <8A9AE541-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> On Nov 25, 2003, at 21:05, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > > El Nov 26, 2003, a las 2:18 AM, Martin Nadeau escribi?: > >> I wasn't aware of this, so I'm glad I saw the movie. I'm not really >> into portable players, but if I ever plan to buy an iPod, this is >> something I will definitely inquire about. > > What the hell are you talking about? Didn't you read Scott's messages > and the rest? I read Scott's message but did miss his point. I think I also missed some of the other messages. Sorry. > Why are you glad about seeing a movie which is flat-out lying about > the situation with iPod batteries? > > FACT 1: You can get Apple exchange the battery for $99, labor and > parts included. Much too expansive just to have a battery changed, but that is entirely my personal opinion and I can certainly understand if others find it a reasonable price (they probably have a higher budget than I do :-)). However, as I mentioned in my reply to Scott, the tech support person at Apple doesn't mention it and says that you have to send it back for $255 or buy a new one. > FACT 2: You can get a battery AND replace it yourself if you have the > nerve to open one. My own point in my message is that you shouldn't have to work up the nerve to replace the battery in a consumer appliance like the iPod. It's really something that should be easy for the user to do, just like changing the battery on your tv remote control. From what I read, it's not so easy. I consider it a design flaw. Again, you're free to disagree and that's just fine. > FACT 3: The guy who did the video did it fine and dandy, but he's a > moron because he didn't ever care about checking Facts 1 and 2. He called Apple tech support and wasn't told any of this, not even Apple's own $100 option. He was told $255 or buy a new one. Why should he be expected not to believe Apple? Why does that make him a moron? > This is what Scott and others have said in this thread, yet, you > finish your mail with: > >> I wasn't aware of this, so I'm glad I saw the movie. I'm not really >> into portable players, but if I ever plan to buy an iPod, this is >> something I will definitely inquire about. > > So indeed. The dork just fucked up, people tell you so and yet you end > your message with that. Clearly, the guy got his "point" across. > > Geezus. No, Jesus! :-) P.S. I think I really, really dislike you... -- Martin Nadeau From nadeama2 at videotron.ca Tue Nov 25 23:44:01 2003 From: nadeama2 at videotron.ca (Martin Nadeau) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: a good newsreader for os x? In-Reply-To: <3C4C9661-1FB0-11D8-A253-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <7A573393-1EA8-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <3C4C9661-1FB0-11D8-A253-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <79C51778-1FD9-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> On Nov 25, 2003, at 20:31, Lukreme wrote: > On 24 Nov 2003, at 11:03, Martin Nadeau wrote: >> What do you mean by crippleware? Like most shareware programs, it has >> features that are disabled until you register. Nothing is crippled >> once you've paid the registration fee. Do you consider all demo >> applications that have some features disabled to be "crippleware"? > > Yes. that is waht crippleware means I actually thought it meant "crippled" even after payment of the shareware fee. Definitely my bad, sorry about that. -- Martin Nadeau From chad at objectwerks.com Tue Nov 25 23:58:02 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <8A9AE541-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <8A9AE541-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <2F6820F9-1FE6-11D8-81C6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> On Nov 25, 2003, at 11:41 PM, Martin Nadeau wrote: > >> FACT 3: The guy who did the video did it fine and dandy, but he's a >> moron because he didn't ever care about checking Facts 1 and 2. > > He called Apple tech support and wasn't told any of this, not even > Apple's own $100 option. He was told $255 or buy a new one. Why should > he be expected not to believe Apple? Why does that make him a moron? To be fair to the movie maker, the $100 option was probably not available at the time. I believe that is a somewhat new option, as I remember just reading about it recently on MacNN... Chad doesn't have an iPod From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 26 00:16:03 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <882C314A-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <4B39A200-1FB3-11D8-810C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <882C314A-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: On Nov 25, 2003, at 10:41 PM, Martin Nadeau wrote: > The option of replacing it yourself should be made clear by the Apple > tech. IMHO, of course. I assume doing it yourself voids the warranty? > As for the battery life, how long are they normally supposed to last > anyway (with "average" use)? That's my question. Mobile phones seem to start have problems after about two years, and the situation is basically the same -- the battery is almost as much as a new phone. I'm curious if iPod batteries tend to have shorter or longer lifespans than phones (which are often $200-$300 themselves). - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 26 00:24:06 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <2F6820F9-1FE6-11D8-81C6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <8A9AE541-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <2F6820F9-1FE6-11D8-81C6-003065A70D30@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On Nov 25, 2003, at 11:57 PM, Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc. wrote: > To be fair to the movie maker, the $100 option was probably not > available at the time. I believe that is a somewhat new option, as I > remember just reading about it recently on MacNN... My problem with the movie was never the cost issue, as much as he made it sound like ALL iPods die after 18 months. If they do, the fair enough. But I hadn't gotten that impression. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From mark at imap-partners.net Wed Nov 26 01:10:05 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: Junk Mail....losing the plot In-Reply-To: References: <376DB95C-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <465EA314-1FF0-11D8-8117-000A958A3014@imap-partners.net> On 26 Nov 2003, at 2:28, Matt wrote: > I've got it switched on normally and it's, frankly, less than useless. > It's capturing less than 10% of junk that is coming in. On one > account, my ISP account, it receives 100 spams a day and Junk Mail > captures none of them. It's like it ignores this account. I'd be surprised if there is account specific in the Junk Mail system, but what do I know ? I would guess that your corpus is shot. I had a similar experience a while back. It was going well and then it went awry, badly awry. At that time, for various reasons, I was planning on moving back to Mailsmith for a while. I had a load of training messages for SpamSieve and it was up and running beautifully straight away. When I came back to Mail (as of 10.3) I used my SpamSieve corpus (I kept the messages that I fed it, both Spam and Ham) to re-feed Mail's junk system and it is now working extremely well. Its currently doing better than SpamAssassin, much better. Might be worth removing your corpus ? In the case of Mail, I _think_ this is: ~/Library/Mail/LSMMap judging by its location and contents, but I'd check this first. Helps if you have some feed saved up for the filter of course. mark. From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 26 01:20:07 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: Lightweight Visual HTML Editor... In-Reply-To: <5CAE7A64-1F69-11D8-BD71-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> References: <55635D38-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <4BFC8708-1F62-11D8-BD71-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> <5CAE7A64-1F69-11D8-BD71-000A95CD9C5A@entermix.com> Message-ID: <9A43F356-1FF1-11D8-9794-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 25 Nov 2003, at 17:03, Michael Stearne wrote: > Its great in that it does easily what a Visual HTML editor should do > (especially for a blog), tables, style, generated CSS, etc. > Because its standards compliant and multi-platform and Free its also > great. Ah, for me it lost "great" status because of bugginess, sluggishness and crappy table handling. M From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 26 01:29:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: Junk Mail....losing the plot In-Reply-To: <11D6E85D-1FAC-11D8-A131-000393B615D2@start.no> References: <376DB95C-1F4D-11D8-A9E0-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <11D6E85D-1FAC-11D8-A131-000393B615D2@start.no> Message-ID: <18E30F12-1FF2-11D8-9794-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 26 Nov 2003, at 01:01, Barbro Maria Haveland wrote: > > On 25. nov. 2003, at 14.42, Matt wrote: > >> I've got it switched on normally and it's, frankly, less than >> useless. It's capturing less than 10% of junk that is coming in. On >> one account, my ISP account, it receives 100 spams a day and Junk >> Mail captures none of them. It's like it ignores this account. > > Works like a charm for me, hardly see any spam anymore, and haven't > had any "mis-junk'ings" the last week either (false positives, isn't > that the term?) Well, this is what I mean, I think it's borken! > Did you remember to train it well before you put it on "Automatic"? Yeah, :( From alexfuller at mac.com Wed Nov 26 02:34:00 2003 From: alexfuller at mac.com (Alex Fuller) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <4B39A200-1FB3-11D8-810C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <882C314A-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: On 26 Nov 2003, at 8:15 am, Scott Stevenson wrote: > > >> As for the battery life, how long are they normally supposed to last >> anyway (with "average" use)? > > That's my question. > > Mobile phones seem to start have problems after about two years, and > the situation is basically the same -- the battery is almost as much > as a new phone. I'm curious if iPod batteries tend to have shorter or > longer lifespans than phones (which are often $200-$300 themselves). I got my original 5GB iPod pretty early on (must have been one of the first batch in the UK) has seen generally regular use with the odd period of disuse (once for about a fortnight, after which it seemed completely dead, wouldn't charge, etc. - can't remember how I reset it now). Its battery is still going strong... I'm sure it's lost a bit of capacity but nothing horrible. Haven't timed it but it never disappoints. Alex From steve at union.arizona.edu Wed Nov 26 04:02:09 2003 From: steve at union.arizona.edu (steve stout) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: iPod vs Dell DJ In-Reply-To: <525CC4F2-1FDA-11D8-B612-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> References: <525CC4F2-1FDA-11D8-B612-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> Message-ID: <3B7AFD75-2008-11D8-9705-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> Well. I have an iPod and my roommate just bought a Dell DJ. The article pretty much gets it right. Here's my opinion: The Bad: The DJ is big and ugly. The scroll wheel thingy is too small and clunky and makes a loud clicking when you scroll and it goes too slow to find a song quickly. The screen is too dim. No dock.. so you have to have a power cable, a usb cable and headphones all plugged in. My roommate's died after a week with some HD problem that required him to ship it back. The Good: The software has some nice features. The ability to view info on a song (bitrate, size, etc). And adding songs to what the iPod calls the On-The-Go playlist is a little nicer since you don't have to start playing the playlist first before you can add songs to it and have it come up next. You can just play a song, then tell it to queue another song. But on the iPod you have to put a song in the On-the-Go playlist, then play that playlist, then add other songs to it. Anyways... ./steve On Nov 25, 2003, at 11:32 PM, The Amazing Llama wrote: > 0,15114,548314,00.html> > > Quick perusal looks very positive toward the iPod, but a closer > reading sounds much less negative toward the DJ. He calls it a 'brick' > and a 'Bizarro' (repeatedly) but the specifics he mentions don't seem > to be too huge (there's some very valid points, but nothing too huge). > > Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac > dot com> > "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure > out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2375 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031126/b93ced61/smime.bin From greg at omnigroup.com Wed Nov 26 05:18:01 2003 From: greg at omnigroup.com (Greg Titus) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <4B39A200-1FB3-11D8-810C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <882C314A-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: On Nov 26, 2003, at 2:33 AM, Alex Fuller wrote: > On 26 Nov 2003, at 8:15 am, Scott Stevenson wrote: >>> As for the battery life, how long are they normally supposed to last >>> anyway (with "average" use)? >> >> That's my question. >> >> Mobile phones seem to start have problems after about two years, and >> the situation is basically the same -- the battery is almost as much >> as a new phone. I'm curious if iPod batteries tend to have shorter or >> longer lifespans than phones (which are often $200-$300 themselves). > > I got my original 5GB iPod pretty early on (must have been one of the > first batch in the UK) has seen generally regular use with the odd > period of disuse (once for about a fortnight, after which it seemed > completely dead, wouldn't charge, etc. - can't remember how I reset it > now). Its battery is still going strong... I'm sure it's lost a bit of > capacity but nothing horrible. Haven't timed it but it never > disappoints. More anecdotal info: My original 5 GB iPod is just over two years old now, and I tested it a couple days ago when this brouhaha about batteries first came up. It lasted 8 hours 23 minutes from full charge to shutdown while continuously random playing. I'm pretty happy with that... From eblair at mac.com Wed Nov 26 07:06:48 2003 From: eblair at mac.com (Eric Blair) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: iPod vs Dell DJ In-Reply-To: <3B7AFD75-2008-11D8-9705-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> Message-ID: On Wednesday, November 26, 2003 at 7:01 AM, steve stout wrote: > >The Good: The software has some nice features. The ability to view >info on a song (bitrate, size, etc). And adding songs to what the iPod >calls the On-The-Go playlist is a little nicer since you don't have to >start playing the playlist first before you can add songs to it and >have it come up next. You can just play a song, then tell it to queue >another song. But on the iPod you have to put a song in the On-the-Go >playlist, then play that playlist, then add other songs to it. > Uh, I've never seen this with the OTG playlist before, and I just did a playlist yesterday. I added one whole CD, added a song from another artist, then added a second CD. After I started listing to the OTG playlist, I added all the music from another artist. All played just fine. --Eric From kremels at kreme.com Wed Nov 26 07:42:10 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <882C314A-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <4B39A200-1FB3-11D8-810C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <882C314A-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: On 25 Nov 2003, at 23:41, Martin Nadeau wrote: > As for the battery life, how long are they normally supposed to last > anyway (with "average" use)? I have an original 5GB ipod. Battery still runs for 4 hours or so. -- I said pretend you've got no money, she just laughed and said, 'Eh, you're so funny.' I said, 'Yeah? Well I can't see anyone else smiling in here.' -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031126/eb08c19c/smime.bin From glennc at mac.com Wed Nov 26 09:15:53 2003 From: glennc at mac.com (Glenn Carnagey) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <4B39A200-1FB3-11D8-810C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <882C314A-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <073BF8A8-2032-11D8-936B-000393A7795C@mac.com> On Nov 26, 2003, at 2:15 AM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > On Nov 25, 2003, at 10:41 PM, Martin Nadeau wrote: > >> The option of replacing it yourself should be made clear by the Apple >> tech. IMHO, of course. > > I assume doing it yourself voids the warranty? it surely must. >> As for the battery life, how long are they normally supposed to last >> anyway (with "average" use)? > > That's my question. > > Mobile phones seem to start have problems after about two years, and > the situation is basically the same -- the battery is almost as much > as a new phone. I'm curious if iPod batteries tend to have shorter or > longer lifespans than phones (which are often $200-$300 themselves). seems to vary, just like anything else. my first 5GB lasted just a little over a year. :-) no options at the time, it's a paperweight. I've read of similar problems, but then I've read of better luck, too. I'm still using the replacement, but it's also still less than a year old. Apple's recent reactions with replacements and AppleCare would seem to indicate that they know there are problems. g./ From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Wed Nov 26 09:32:44 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <8A9AE541-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <8A9AE541-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <97436B18-2034-11D8-ABF0-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> > P.S. I think I really, really dislike you... Thanks! I work hard on those smacking replies so it's great when they have the desired effect. j. p.s. And he's still a moron. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Wed Nov 26 11:13:08 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <073BF8A8-2032-11D8-936B-000393A7795C@mac.com> References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <4B39A200-1FB3-11D8-810C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <882C314A-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <073BF8A8-2032-11D8-936B-000393A7795C@mac.com> Message-ID: <0B3DDF64-2044-11D8-B7BA-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> >>> The option of replacing it yourself should be made clear by the >>> Apple tech. IMHO, of course. >> >> I assume doing it yourself voids the warranty? > > it surely must. Since te warranty is 12 months, like, whatever. If the battery runs out of juice (deffective batt) before 12 months, Apple replaces it free of cost. If the battery runs out of juice after 12 months, no warranty is there, free to open and install elsewhere. You may also want to purchase an AppleCare package. Apple will then change the battery for all three years after your original year warranty runs out. j. From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 26 11:41:43 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <0B3DDF64-2044-11D8-B7BA-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <4B39A200-1FB3-11D8-810C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <882C314A-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <073BF8A8-2032-11D8-936B-000393A7795C@mac.com> <0B3DDF64-2044-11D8-B7BA-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> Message-ID: On Nov 26, 2003, at 11:09 AM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: >>> I assume doing it yourself voids the warranty? >> >> it surely must. > > Since te warranty is 12 months, like, whatever. > > If the battery runs out of juice (deffective batt) before 12 months, > Apple replaces it free of cost. > If the battery runs out of juice after 12 months, no warranty is > there, free to open and install elsewhere. "Voids the warranty" was probably the wrong way for me to put it. What I meant was if the user could potentially do more damage by replacing themselves, it may be that it's impractical for Apple to recommend doing such a thing. I dunno. Just another way of looking at it. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 26 12:07:06 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: Stoking the fire: Panther vs. Longhorn In-Reply-To: <37F1D197-1CC6-11D8-9BCC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> References: <20031122033419.PKDR1873.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@[192.168.0.104]> <37F1D197-1CC6-11D8-9BCC-000A95DA3C6A@mac.com> Message-ID: <618F0C5F-204A-11D8-A3A2-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> On Nov 22, 2003, at 12:31 AM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: >> * XAML. It plays the role that Display Postscript and .NIB files did >> in >> NeXTstep, and then some. >> > Please elaborate. > > I will note that NIB files have been working very well for over a > decade now, and the whole system has been recently significantly > enhanced by the new controller layer. DPS has of course been > supplanted by "DPDF", or Quartz, which has a range of features not > present in the former... > > I'm also not quite sure what you mean by suggesting it takes the role > of both the display server and an object archival format? Yeah, it looks like there's some confusion there... I've only looked at it briefly, but I believe XAML is an XML-based declarative language used to define an object hierarchy, including UI objects. In that sense, it is somewhat similar in purpose to nibs, though a nib actually contains real archived objects. As for the Display Postscript bit, perhaps bill was referring to some sort of connection relating to how both Postscript and XAML can sort of describe the appearance of a canvas? - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From cthacker at casmail.ucsf.edu Wed Nov 26 12:52:02 2003 From: cthacker at casmail.ucsf.edu (chris thacker) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: Disk permissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <70AA60C7-2051-11D8-872F-0003931CE9CA@casmail.ucsf.edu> a little late but here is my thought.... this may not be your case but a lot of people who don't really understand permissions start messing with them via the 'get info' window, thinking something is broken and thinking they know what they are doing. in actuality, they are tackling the problem the wrong way and then end up screwing something else up. apple doesn't help this with the "apply to enclosed items..." button being buggy and not fully applying to enclosed items. also by reading one quick blurb about changing ownership with the terminal and then thinking that's the magic pill you can mess things up too if you get into the habit of doing this when you really shouldn't. if you haven't been using unix for a while, you can teach yourself a lot by reading through the tutorials at this site: ------------------- Chris Thacker Campus Life Services - Information Systems University of California at San Francisco [ help desk ] 415 502-5511 [direct line] 415 514-3373 On Nov 10, 2003, at 3:25 PM, Dan Gaters wrote: > Is this right? > > Panther: Mac OS X 10.3 (Part 13) > > > Michael Retondo > >> Raul Regalado wrote: "What exactly is the deal with disk permissions, >> and why >> do they need repairing so often? If repairing disk permissions is so >> important >> (and most third-party tech support documents I've seen lately always >> include >> it as a step in standard troubleshooting), then why isn't it >> something that is >> done automatically after a software installation or a crash?" > > I couldn?t agree more with Raul. Disk permissions is OS X dirty little > secret. Whenever a Windows friend of mine finds out about it, I want to > crawl in a hole, It?s so embarrassing. > > I didn?t mind it two years ago, thought it was just growing pains for > new > OS. But no way did I think such a serious problem would still be with > us in > Panther. God forbid when I do an iTunes update and then run disk > permissions, the log is an inch thick. How could Apple have an update > that > installs new software and screws up permissions so badly every time? > > Apple has got to answer this for us once and for all. ...How Steve > Jobs puts > up with this I have no idea. I can?t believe he thinks my Mom and Dad > should > have to know anything about repairing disk permissions. I hate it when > I > have to tell people like my Mom and Dad or (worse yet) Windows > converts I > turned, that every time they do a software update, they must repair > their > disk permissions. They turn to me and say, 'but I thought that?s why I > bought a Mac so I wouldn?t have to deal with this?' > > d*g > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2947 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031126/59fae077/attachment.bin From jswitte at bloomington.in.us Wed Nov 26 13:44:34 2003 From: jswitte at bloomington.in.us (Jim Witte) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: Refactoring Finder In-Reply-To: <2E1FF2F8-1E3F-11D8-83D8-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> References: <2E1FF2F8-1E3F-11D8-83D8-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <6FBC1664-2055-11D8-BA7E-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> > aqua, sidebar-less, icon view window to pop up spacial style. I'd like > Command-N to It would be nice to have a default for the sidebar-less window. Anybody else notice how when a window is in sidebar-less mode, there appears to be *no* way to make it behave as in "one-window" mode when opening directories? This is really annoying (although I suppose I could just drag the sidebar closed) > always open a new browser style window rooted at either my home or > Computer according to the current options. This whole business of > converting one style of Finder window to another just really stinks. > It feels a little as if they've been trying to find a reason to have > that rightmost pill button do something since they ditched single > window mode from the developer previews. Drastically changing the way > a window works is not You mean they *had* single-window mode in the DPs? That was the one thing I liked *most* about the X Finder (unexpectedly). It really does reduce clutter. Especially since I can just have one icon on my desktop for my school folder, the to get to my latest Comp Sci assignment I hit the following keys: S, Cmd-O (open school) c3, for 'C331', Cmd-O (return would be even better) a12, for 'a12', Cmd-O Boom. And in single-window mode, I don't have 3 windows cluttering up the screen.. > Further, I'd like it so that if I have the finder hidden and I click > on the desktop all the windows don't jump out at me. I know that's old > Mac OS behaviour but it's pretty lame since the windows don't jump to > the front if the Finder isn't hidden. There are times when I specifically *want* this behavior. Like if I have one window open in the Finder and I want to get to it. But X-ASM lets me do this (although I don't know if it's been adjusted to work with Panther yet.) Of course, this is what Expose is for.. > While I'm bitching... Now I know why one person calls this list "Mac OSX Bitch".. > , I'd like more feed back with the icons. A charge indicator on my > iPod icon would be great. A little progress meter on files downloading > from Safari would be cool (IE on OS < X did this). Good ideas. I'd like an indication in the top part of the sidebar (where the drives are kept) of which drive contains the currently shown directory. On a related note, it would also be *very* nice *especially for novice users, if the Dock icon of the active application did something to indicate it's active - not throbbing, that would be to distracting, but maybe a Quartzy-3D effect or a glow of some kind. As a preference of course. Side note here: It's great to have the app name in the menu bar, but only if you know to look there.. And in OS9, the app menu showed the *icon* of the current application. It's odd that Apple got rid of this in OSX, considering that Mac UI has always been predicated on a visual-iconic paradigm. So why use text instead of icons? > And just to top it all off I'd love a central place for all progress > meters. Copies in the Finder, Downloads from Safari and other long > operations should be grouped together I'd have to disagree here. If done right, it might work, but if I'm in Safari or Camino or something, I don't really want to see all my file copies (disclosure triangles would be nice). Or maybe have a tab interface (each process has it's own tab), and then different tabs could be dragged away into separate windows (a la Adobe, although they might have legal trouble here..), and perhaps (bonded) to the application (so that whenever the application were activated, it's associated "process palette" would come to the top. > into one UI element. Each app could add it's own accessory view which > it manages. The progress views shouldn't be in the same address space > though. Each app should be able to create an off screen view which it > draws to then hands to the system. The system then composites the view > in the central progress UI and maps back input events to the Or the system progress view could just contain sub-views owned/controlled by the individual applications. Wait, I don't know if you can *do* that with Cocoa.. You could certainly do it with NewtonScript, but that was another (unfortunately) dead OS.. > Just a dreamin' away, This reminds me of what I think was one of Apple's largest mistakes ever (bigger than not giving the first Newton a faster process and capitalizing on it in vertical markets). The should have integrated Hypercard into the system: Buttons, fields, card scripts *on the desktop*. Applescript (well, Hypertalk with application control) a full 5 or 6 *years* before it was actually done. Truly user-definable work environments (similar to the Java project Fluency [1], and certainly what would have evolved out of NewtonScript if it had been allowed to evolve to NS 3,4,5.. [No citation, but I might write something about this at some point..]) This in turn reminds me of the paper by the main PLT Scheme group people, "Programming Lanauges as Operating Systems (or Revenge of the Son of the Lisp Machine)" [2] Jim [1] Fluency webpage: http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~rawlins/symphony/mvc2/mvc2-problem.html "Nutshell" description on this page: http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~rawlins/ [2] "Programming Lanauges as Operating Systems (or Revenge of the Son of the Lisp Machine) 1999. see http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/201755.html for link to PDF document and citations. From listor at melin.org Wed Nov 26 13:58:21 2003 From: listor at melin.org (Joacim Melin) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer Message-ID: "Apple Computer has been decidedly absent from the tablet game. In part, this has to do with the failure of the Newton, which will always be associated in the mind of Steve Jobs with his former friend and nemesis John Sculley. "Real computers have keyboards," Steve has said a zillion times, and he'll mean it right up to the moment he changes his mind." http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20031127.html /j ------------------------------------------------------------------------ joacim melin > http://z80.org > joacim at melin dot org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 704 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031126/5fa9a256/attachment.bin From scott at maxify.com Wed Nov 26 15:46:07 2003 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: Mac OS X Exploit (Re: Remote root vuln) In-Reply-To: <7C444633-2060-11D8-A622-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> References: <7C444633-2060-11D8-A622-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> Message-ID: <72E8CF85-2069-11D8-A7CE-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> On Nov 26, 2003, at 2:32 PM, Michael Maibaum wrote: > http://www.carrel.org/dhcp-vuln.html Thanks for pointing this out, Michael. This relates to machine that use DHCP (dynamic IP addresses). Summary of workaround: Open: Applications > Utilities > Directory Access 1. Click "Services" tab 2. Highlight "LDAPv3" and click "Configure" 3. Uncheck "Use DHCP-supplied LDAP server", then click OK. 4. Back in Services, highlight "NetInfo" and click "Configure" 5. Uncheck both "Attempt to connect using broadcast protocol" and "Attempt to connect using DHCP protocol", then click OK. 6. If you're not using LDAPv3 or NetInfo, disable them by unchecking the boxes in the "Enable" column. Unless on a company network, you mostly likely don't need these. If you are on a company network, check with your system administrator first. 7. Hit "Apply" and quit. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 26 16:02:20 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 26, 2003, at 1:44 PM, Joacim Melin wrote: > "Apple Computer has been decidedly absent from the tablet game. In > part, this has to do with the failure of the Newton, which will always > be associated in the mind of Steve Jobs with his former friend and > nemesis John Sculley. "Real computers have keyboards," Steve has said > a zillion times, and he'll mean it right up to the moment he changes > his mind." > > http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20031127.html I'm not sold on the idea that Apple is pursuing this. There's no aspect of it that screams out as having direct interest for Apple. The are a bunch of interesting ideas (video here, internet there, "it can do anything", etc...), but it just has that feel of more rumor than reality. A bit too gimmicky maybe, that's just my feeling. I doesn't sound like something that would sell. I'm not sure the addition of video from the TV is enough to take the tablet to mass sales. I mean, I don't really need to watch TV on a tablet on my desk. Sure, it's very sci-fi and all, but I'm not sure if there's much in the way of practical application. And maybe I would occasionally want to stream video from the computer to the TV, but not nearly often enough to justify the purchase of an entire device for the task. iDVD fits that need nicely. I'm sure our local crazy spaniard would be all over this, though. :) - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From pelorus at mac.com Wed Nov 26 16:38:19 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006DBDAF-2070-11D8-BAC7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 26 Nov 2003, at 23:59, Scott Stevenson wrote: > And maybe I would occasionally want to stream video from the computer > to the TV, but not nearly often enough to justify the purchase of an > entire device for the task. I don't really want to stream video from the computer to the TV but I'd love an easy "dumb box" method of doing the opposite so that anyone on my network could hook into my TV feed.... From kremels at kreme.com Wed Nov 26 18:00:08 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: References: <604FEB8C-1FAE-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <4B39A200-1FB3-11D8-810C-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> <882C314A-1FDB-11D8-93E4-000393D7862A@videotron.ca> <073BF8A8-2032-11D8-936B-000393A7795C@mac.com> <0B3DDF64-2044-11D8-B7BA-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> Message-ID: <439628EB-207C-11D8-8438-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 26 Nov 2003, at 12:35, Scott Stevenson wrote: > On Nov 26, 2003, at 11:09 AM, Jesus Diaz Blanco wrote: > >>>> I assume doing it yourself voids the warranty? >>> >>> it surely must. >> >> Since te warranty is 12 months, like, whatever. >> >> If the battery runs out of juice (deffective batt) before 12 months, >> Apple replaces it free of cost. >> If the battery runs out of juice after 12 months, no warranty is >> there, free to open and install elsewhere. > > "Voids the warranty" was probably the wrong way for me to put it. > > What I meant was if the user could potentially do more damage by > replacing themselves, it may be that it's impractical for Apple to > recommend doing such a thing. Certainly so. it is quite easy to destroy the ipod irreparably. No one in their right mind would recommend this replacement to someone who wasn't quite comfortable doing things like replacing CPU chips. -- And the three men I admire most, the father son and the holly ghost, they caught the last train for the coast... From scott at maxify.com Wed Nov 26 19:07:25 2003 From: scott at maxify.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: iPhoto for Windows Message-ID: <25689D30-2085-11D8-B657-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> It's articles like this that really make me think a non-trivial number journalists completely miss the big picture. The author wants Apple to sell iPhoto to Windows users. http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2003/ tc20031126_2159_tc056.htm I don't think he gets that Apple makes computers. That's why they do. They're not looking for a way to transition to a Windows software maker. And being a Windows software maker isn't such a great thing when your products directly compete with Microsoft. There is a comment in the article about how Apple "really is a software company." Which I'm sure comes to shock for all the people who believe apple "really is a hardware company". Really, Apple is both. That's the whole point. That's what enables Mac OS X to do what it does. And I don't get this point at all: "Furthermore, Apple has significantly closed the price gap in the last six months. Apple laptops, in particular, are comparably priced with Windows competitors. That parity, should Apple be able to maintain it, could free the Mac team to sell far more software in the Windows world, where the real money is, and still maintain its cozy hardware business." So now that Apple has competitive prices, they should start selling more Windows software. Huh? I'm not sure what the "Mac team" is either. I'm not convinced the author knows how much money Apple makes from hardware. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From sstevenson at mac.com Wed Nov 26 19:14:17 2003 From: sstevenson at mac.com (Scott Stevenson) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:36 2005 Subject: iPhoto for Windows Message-ID: <339A688E-2085-11D8-B657-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> It's articles like this that really make me think a non-trivial number journalists completely miss the big picture. The author wants Apple to sell iPhoto to Windows users. http://yahoo.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2003/ tc20031126_2159_tc056.htm I don't think he gets that Apple makes computers. That's why they do. They're not looking for a way to transition to a Windows software maker. And being a Windows software maker isn't such a great thing when your products directly compete with Microsoft. There is a comment in the article about how Apple "really is a software company." Which I'm sure comes to shock for all the people who believe apple "really is a hardware company". Really, Apple is both. That's the whole point. That's what enables Mac OS X to do what it does. And I don't get this point at all: "Furthermore, Apple has significantly closed the price gap in the last six months. Apple laptops, in particular, are comparably priced with Windows competitors. That parity, should Apple be able to maintain it, could free the Mac team to sell far more software in the Windows world, where the real money is, and still maintain its cozy hardware business." So now that Apple has competitive prices, they should start selling more Windows software. Huh? I'm not sure what the "Mac team" is either. I'm not convinced the author knows how much money Apple makes from hardware. - Scott -- Tree House Ideas http://treehouseideas.com/ From tallama at mac.com Wed Nov 26 19:39:01 2003 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Refactoring Finder In-Reply-To: <6FBC1664-2055-11D8-BA7E-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> References: <2E1FF2F8-1E3F-11D8-83D8-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> <6FBC1664-2055-11D8-BA7E-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> Message-ID: <1846E9FB-208B-11D8-9562-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> On Nov 26, 2003, at 1:13 PM, Jim Witte wrote: > You mean they *had* single-window mode in the DPs? That was the one > thing I liked *most* about the X Finder (unexpectedly). It really > does reduce clutter. Especially since I can just have one icon on my > desktop for my school folder, the to get to my latest Comp Sci > assignment I hit the following keys: > > S, Cmd-O (open school) > c3, for 'C331', Cmd-O (return would be even better) > a12, for 'a12', Cmd-O > > Boom. And in single-window mode, I don't have 3 windows cluttering up > the screen.. Um... you can do this now with open-in-current-window. And: > Side note here: It's great to have the app name in the menu bar, > but only if you know to look there.. And in OS9, the app menu showed > the *icon* of the current application. It's odd that Apple got rid of > this in OSX, considering that Mac UI has always been predicated on a > visual-iconic paradigm. So why use text instead of icons? Odd... there was at one time (DP4? PB?) a preference to use icons instead of the app name, but I never liked it so I turned it off and never noticed that it disappeared, which it apparently has since I can no longer find it. Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031126/5e985896/smime.bin From soft at bdanube.com Wed Nov 26 20:03:02 2003 From: soft at bdanube.com (Michael Grant) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Refactoring Finder In-Reply-To: <1846E9FB-208B-11D8-9562-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> References: <2E1FF2F8-1E3F-11D8-83D8-0030657160F8@sympatico.ca> <6FBC1664-2055-11D8-BA7E-000393BF0854@bloomington.in.us> <1846E9FB-208B-11D8-9562-0050E4A0241F@mac.com> Message-ID: <8A655076-208E-11D8-96D6-000A27984144@bdanube.com> On Nov 26, 2003, at 9:37 PM, The Amazing Llama wrote: > Odd... there was at one time (DP4? PB?) a preference to use icons > instead of the app name, but I never liked it so I turned it off and > never noticed that it disappeared, which it apparently has since I can > no longer find it. It's a feature of FruitMenu. Could that be where you got it? Michael -- Wenn ?ber eine olle Sache man wieder Gras gewachsen ist, kommt sicher so'n Kamel jelofen, das alles wieder runter frisst. - Stefan Sulke From tallama at mac.com Wed Nov 26 20:18:02 2003 From: tallama at mac.com (The Amazing Llama) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: iPhoto for Windows In-Reply-To: <339A688E-2085-11D8-B657-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> References: <339A688E-2085-11D8-B657-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 26, 2003, at 6:55 PM, Scott Stevenson wrote: > I don't think he gets that Apple makes computers. That's why they do and: > And I don't get this point at all: Not to mention: > I'm not sure what the "Mac team" is either. And finally: > I'm not convinced the author knows how much money Apple makes from > hardware. I'm not convinced the author knows how to use a spoon. In general, articles about the Macintosh fall into one of these categories: 1) The End is Near! An article predicting Apple's immanent demise because Microsoft/Sun/Oracle/Linus/Batman just leaked a pre-announcement of a working draft specification of a napkin sketch of an upcoming product. 2) I Think I'm In Love A reviewer gets his grubby Dell mitts on a Mac and swoons over its ease of use, wonderful applications, amazing stability, and cheese-grating functions. Ten minutes after press he returns to his Dell to play Hearts. 3) Welcome to Fairy Land Someone thinks of some product that no one anywhere would reasonably expect to exist, and determines that since no one they know makes it, some underdog is undoubtedly going to appear out of nowhere with it, and they choose Apple as that underdog because they make cool stuff. Cringely's latest article might fall under this category. 4) Whitewash Apple releases something and a review is written about all of its good parts, without mentioning how it might cause cancer. You see this on the Mac Web all the time. 5) Blackwash Apple releases something and a review is written about how it might cause cancer, without mentioning all of its good parts. You see this on the Mac Web all the time. 6) What's this Apple Key? A reviewer gets his grubby Dell mitts on a Mac and complains about everything that isn't Windows. This also happens with Linux people, and Mac fans have been know to do the reverse, as well. 7) Rumors Someone's grandma's sister's hairstylist's dog pedicurist's favorite spaniard heard a little bird say something that sounded like 'Snapple', so obviously there's a new FireWire 800 laser gun on the next PowerBook. 8) How To Ranging from the blindingly obvious ("Hit the return key to use the default button") to the very helpful ("How to install PostgreSQL on your laptop"). This article is somewhere between 2 and 3; he fell in love with iPhoto and iTunes, and suspects that since no one else is making intuitive, easy-to-use photo software for the PC, Apple should do it! But my favorite quote from the article is this: > If Steve Jobs is really serious about the digital lifestyle -- and > profits -- selling something to the other 95% of computer users is > much better than selling them nothing. Selling them Macintoshes is better than both, now isn't it? Seth A. Roby The Amazing Llama < mail or AIM me at tallama at mac dot com> "Life is like an exploded clown. It's really funny until you figure out what just happened." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031126/c430422f/smime.bin From joar at joar.com Wed Nov 26 23:02:01 2003 From: joar at joar.com (j o a r) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Mac OS X Exploit (Re: Remote root vuln) In-Reply-To: <72E8CF85-2069-11D8-A7CE-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> References: <7C444633-2060-11D8-A622-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> <72E8CF85-2069-11D8-A7CE-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> Message-ID: <6DACD599-20A7-11D8-9252-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Mac OS X works just fine without any directory service checkbox checked! One of the first things I do after helping someone install a new machine has long been to uncheck _all_ these checkboxes. I don't really understand what setting these checkboxes is supposed to do for the more generic services like Rendezvous. If you disable the Rendezvous checkbox, you can still use Rendezvous, for example in iChat. If you disable NetInfo, you can still use the information in your local NetInfo db. This technote from Apple sort of summarizes what Directory Access is all about, but it doesn't give the complete picture: I always found it weird that Apple ships Mac OS X with them enabled by default. There is a technote that outlines how to turn off NetInfo and LDAP to avoid delays during startup: But why even have all these things enabled per default? At my office we authenticate to a Solaris server using NIS (very painful, as the NIS implementation in both Jaguar and Panther is so buggy) - but I expect that the vast majority of Mac OS X users only ever run local accounts. I would much rather see that you had to manually turn on and configure directory services on client machines, than having them enabled by default. j o a r From mark at imap-partners.net Wed Nov 26 23:16:19 2003 From: mark at imap-partners.net (mark) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: <006DBDAF-2070-11D8-BAC7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <006DBDAF-2070-11D8-BAC7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 27 Nov 2003, at 1:24, Matt wrote: > > On 26 Nov 2003, at 23:59, Scott Stevenson wrote: >> And maybe I would occasionally want to stream video from the >> computer to the TV, but not nearly often enough to justify the >> purchase of an entire device for the task. > > I don't really want to stream video from the computer to the TV but > I'd love an easy "dumb box" method of doing the opposite so that > anyone on my network could hook into my TV feed.... I've recently been thinking about a seriously paired down server for home use. Paired down to around 800 dollars or so. A really simple file (media) server that you could plug into a Base Station. (Or is it simply BaseStation Server ?) Headless and configurable over Airport out of the box. Something like that thing Suraj has got (forgotten what its called) but running X-Server or a variant of it. You know, for the home ? mark. From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 27 00:37:04 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Home Streaming Video ... Re: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: References: <006DBDAF-2070-11D8-BAC7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 27 Nov 2003, at 07:09, mark wrote: > On 27 Nov 2003, at 1:24, Matt wrote: >> On 26 Nov 2003, at 23:59, Scott Stevenson wrote: >>> And maybe I would occasionally want to stream video from the >>> computer to the TV, but not nearly often enough to justify the >>> purchase of an entire device for the task. >> >> I don't really want to stream video from the computer to the TV but >> I'd love an easy "dumb box" method of doing the opposite so that >> anyone on my network could hook into my TV feed.... > > I've recently been thinking about a seriously paired down server for > home use. Paired down to around 800 dollars or so. A really simple > file (media) server that you could plug into a Base Station. (Or is it > simply BaseStation Server ?) Headless and configurable over Airport > out of the box. Something like that thing Suraj has got (forgotten > what its called) but running X-Server or a variant of it. Well, you're just talking a small, quiet PC with FreeBSD on a huge disk. I don't really want a media server with huge gbs of media on dick, I want something which will take a analog TV feed in one end and has an ethernet port on the other end. I'm not even looking for 100 fidelity, 320x240 would even be adequate....but it should be streamed. the PVR hardware we see, like the eyeTV is almost there, but not quite. Sony do a device like this but it requires a VAIO Media desktop... From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Thu Nov 27 02:21:01 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: iPhoto for Windows In-Reply-To: References: <339A688E-2085-11D8-B657-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <61B77B8C-20C3-11D8-9248-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> El Nov 27, 2003, a las 5:05 AM, The Amazing Llama escribi?: > I'm not convinced the author knows how to use a spoon. Actually, I'm not convinced the author knows WHERE and WHEN NOT to use a spoon. That incident with the hairy truck driver at that road club was completely uncalled for. No, really. It was. j. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Thu Nov 27 02:30:05 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: iPhoto for Windows In-Reply-To: References: <339A688E-2085-11D8-B657-003065CA9E5A@mac.com> Message-ID: <07CFB6E6-20C4-11D8-9248-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> El Nov 27, 2003, a las 5:05 AM, The Amazing Llama escribi?: > 7) Rumors > Someone's grandma's sister's hairstylist's dog pedicurist's favorite > spaniard heard a little bird say something that sounded like > 'Snapple', so obviously there's a new FireWire 800 laser gun on the > next PowerBook. Wrong, you spitting weird-looking Andinian mammal you. The laser gun comes with the _tablet_Mac, son of Newton. And it will mark the return of ADB. The FireWire 800-based combined HAIR DRYER/COMBER is the Stuff? that comes with the next PowerBook. Great way to get rid of those nasty G5 watts. Look at my hair. I am John Waters now! j. From steve at union.arizona.edu Thu Nov 27 02:39:44 2003 From: steve at union.arizona.edu (steve stout) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Home Streaming Video ... Re: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: References: <006DBDAF-2070-11D8-BAC7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <72AC3B2A-20C5-11D8-9008-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> Buy a ReplayTV... and then go download DVArchive from Sourceforge. You have a dedicated box to handle recording the shows, and if you ever want to watch them on a computer in the other room, DVArchive will stream it to you. Or you can save the shows on your HD and stream them back to the ReplayTV. It's simple and less expensive than building something on your own and the quality is excellent. ./steve On Nov 27, 2003, at 1:36 AM, Matt wrote: > > On 27 Nov 2003, at 07:09, mark wrote: > >> On 27 Nov 2003, at 1:24, Matt wrote: >>> On 26 Nov 2003, at 23:59, Scott Stevenson wrote: >>>> And maybe I would occasionally want to stream video from the >>>> computer to the TV, but not nearly often enough to justify the >>>> purchase of an entire device for the task. >>> >>> I don't really want to stream video from the computer to the TV but >>> I'd love an easy "dumb box" method of doing the opposite so that >>> anyone on my network could hook into my TV feed.... >> >> I've recently been thinking about a seriously paired down server for >> home use. Paired down to around 800 dollars or so. A really simple >> file (media) server that you could plug into a Base Station. (Or is >> it simply BaseStation Server ?) Headless and configurable over >> Airport out of the box. Something like that thing Suraj has got >> (forgotten what its called) but running X-Server or a variant of it. > > Well, you're just talking a small, quiet PC with FreeBSD on a huge > disk. I don't really want a media server with huge gbs of media on > dick, I want something which will take a analog TV feed in one end and > has an ethernet port on the other end. I'm not even looking for 100 > fidelity, 320x240 would even be adequate....but it should be streamed. > the PVR hardware we see, like the eyeTV is almost there, but not > quite. > > Sony do a device like this but it requires a VAIO Media desktop... > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2375 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031127/84fb1200/smime.bin From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Thu Nov 27 02:48:38 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7ABAF693-20C6-11D8-9248-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> > I'm sure our local crazy spaniard would be all over this, though. :) Frankly, not. I am not all over it. I am disenchanted with the idea, in fact, after what I have seen the current state of... Oh well, yeah, so I am lying. Bleh. [1] j. [1] Gimme my 1200x720 10" OLED low-power G3, 1cm. thick, 700 gr., 720MB., 20 GB HD with WiFi.g, BlueTooth, USB and FireWire port + Darwin and Newton-like interface with Cocoa capability. Like, right now. [2] [2] Roger, Zac and Matt too, so it seems we have at least a FOUR person FOUR market here. I think it's worth the risk. [3] [3] No really, I do. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Thu Nov 27 02:57:08 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: El Nov 26, 2003, a las 10:44 PM, Joacim Melin escribi?: > "Apple Computer has been decidedly absent from the tablet game. In > part, this has to do with the failure of the Newton, which will always > be associated in the mind of Steve Jobs with his former friend and > nemesis John Sculley. "Real computers have keyboards," Steve has said > a zillion times, and he'll mean it right up to the moment he changes > his mind." Did he said anything about the ADB laser gun? Nah? That Cringely dude is a dork, I tell you. j. From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 27 03:26:06 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Home Streaming Video ... Re: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: <72AC3B2A-20C5-11D8-9008-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> References: <006DBDAF-2070-11D8-BAC7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <72AC3B2A-20C5-11D8-9008-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <6B9AAE0B-20CC-11D8-B55D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 27 Nov 2003, at 10:35, steve stout wrote: > > Buy a ReplayTV... and then go download DVArchive from Sourceforge. > You have a dedicated box to handle recording the shows, and if you > ever want to watch them on a computer in the other room, DVArchive > will stream it to you. Or you can save the shows on your HD and > stream them back to the ReplayTV. It's simple and less expensive than > building something on your own and the quality is excellent. That's even more than I want. I just want to stream the live TV (doesn't have to be realtime, a few seconds pause is fine) I don't think the replayTV is available in the UK though? Nice idea and it might do in a pinch. Don't be afraid to take big steps. You can't cross a chasm in two small jumps. From surajrai at mac.com Thu Nov 27 05:32:15 2003 From: surajrai at mac.com (Suraj Rai) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: References: <006DBDAF-2070-11D8-BAC7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <01C875AC-20DD-11D8-B31B-000A95A50218@mac.com> On Nov 27, 2003, at 4:09 PM, mark wrote: > Something like that thing Suraj has got (forgotten what its called) > but running X-Server or a variant of it. Hush from Hush Technologies running FreeBSD. http://www.hushtechnologies.com/default.asp?pageID=2&Lang=ENG S.r. From Dan.Crevier at pobox.com Thu Nov 27 09:33:13 2003 From: Dan.Crevier at pobox.com (Dan Crevier) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Home Streaming Video ... Re: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: <6B9AAE0B-20CC-11D8-B55D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: On 11/27/03 3:25 AM, "Matt" wrote: > On 27 Nov 2003, at 10:35, steve stout wrote: > >> >> Buy a ReplayTV... and then go download DVArchive from Sourceforge. >> You have a dedicated box to handle recording the shows, and if you >> ever want to watch them on a computer in the other room, DVArchive >> will stream it to you. Or you can save the shows on your HD and >> stream them back to the ReplayTV. It's simple and less expensive than >> building something on your own and the quality is excellent. > > That's even more than I want. I just want to stream the live TV > (doesn't have to be realtime, a few seconds pause is fine) > > I don't think the replayTV is available in the UK though? > > Nice idea and it might do in a pinch. If you are willing to do the broadcast analog and then have convert then have a tuner/decoder on your mac, you can use any of the number of products out there for broadcasting a video signal to other TVs in the house (that don't involve computers). It's a common problem for people with satellite dishes. Dan From pelorus at mac.com Thu Nov 27 09:57:05 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Home Streaming Video ... Re: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 27 Nov 2003, at 17:28, Dan Crevier wrote: >> I don't think the replayTV is available in the UK though? >> >> Nice idea and it might do in a pinch. > > If you are willing to do the broadcast analog and then have convert > then > have a tuner/decoder on your mac, you can use any of the number of > products > out there for broadcasting a video signal to other TVs in the house > (that > don't involve computers). It's a common problem for people with > satellite > dishes. Nah, thanks for the thought. I have a USB myTV2go and really I was hoping that I could "ditch the dongle". It looks more likely that I'll have to repurpose an iMac and this MyTV2go thingy and build my own solution. M From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Thu Nov 27 10:43:01 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Home Streaming Video ... Re: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <408244DC-2109-11D8-AEC8-000A9599C74E@apinet.es> El Nov 27, 2003, a las 6:56 PM, Matt escribi?: > It looks more likely that I'll have to repurpose an iMac and this > MyTV2go thingy and build my own solution. Suddenly, Matt's To Do list gets critical mass and implodes, creating a black hole in the middle of the Atlantic that sucks all the frikkin' turkey stuffed americans in the planet. No really, I am amazed my Mac has not stopped to work. j. From steve at union.arizona.edu Thu Nov 27 12:23:08 2003 From: steve at union.arizona.edu (steve stout) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: iPod vs Dell DJ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78F04BBE-2115-11D8-80FC-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> No. What I'm saying is that on the iPod you have to 1) add a song to the OTG playlist and then 2) go select the OTG playlist to start playing. If you're already playing a song you manually selected and want to queue another song to play next, adding it to the OTG playlist won't make it play as the next song. On the Dell DJ you can select any song to play as you normally would, then you can find another song and tell it to queue it to play next. ./steve On Nov 26, 2003, at 7:56 AM, Eric Blair wrote: > On Wednesday, November 26, 2003 at 7:01 AM, steve stout wrote: >> >> The Good: The software has some nice features. The ability to view >> info on a song (bitrate, size, etc). And adding songs to what the >> iPod >> calls the On-The-Go playlist is a little nicer since you don't have to >> start playing the playlist first before you can add songs to it and >> have it come up next. You can just play a song, then tell it to queue >> another song. But on the iPod you have to put a song in the On-the-Go >> playlist, then play that playlist, then add other songs to it. >> > Uh, I've never seen this with the OTG playlist before, and I just did a > playlist yesterday. I added one whole CD, added a song from another > artist, then added a second CD. After I started listing to the OTG > playlist, I added all the music from another artist. All played just > fine. > > --Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2375 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031127/6d5f24e1/smime.bin From eblair at mac.com Thu Nov 27 16:10:10 2003 From: eblair at mac.com (Eric Blair) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: iPod vs Dell DJ In-Reply-To: <78F04BBE-2115-11D8-80FC-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> Message-ID: On Thursday, November 27, 2003 at 3:08 PM, steve stout wrote: > >No. What I'm saying is that on the iPod you have to 1) add a song to >the OTG playlist and then 2) go select the OTG playlist to start >playing. If you're already playing a song you manually selected and >want to queue another song to play next, adding it to the OTG playlist >won't make it play as the next song. On the Dell DJ you can select any >song to play as you normally would, then you can find another song and >tell it to queue it to play next. > I see. I misinterpreted what you were saying. --Eric From das at doit.wisc.edu Thu Nov 27 17:24:01 2003 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: The Neistat Brothers' Dirty Secret Message-ID: <6AC06AD6-2141-11D8-A74E-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> You may be interested to know that I offered to mirror their video after their original webhost apparently pulled out, with one condition: that they link to, or otherwise inform users about, Apple's official $99 iPod battery replacement, since the video, as it stands, is incorrect: the iPod's battery is replaceable, and, on top of it, there's an official Apple program for $99. They agreed to provide this information, and said they had no problem telling users how to solve the problem. I, in turn, provided webspace and bandwidth for them. The bottom line: after two days of lies and false starts, and milking my institution's generosity by providing almost 100,000 downloads and 0.7 terabytes of data transfer, they NEVER posted any information about how to solve the problem that they promised to post. Their agenda seems clear, and that's sensationalism, melodrama, and attention. The full email exchange is here, and attached to this message: http://das.doit.wisc.edu/neistatsdirtysecret.txt ---------- From: Dave Schroeder Subject: I might be interested in providing a mirror... Date: November 26, 2003 11:34:05 AM CST To: casey oneistat Security: Signed ...on a mirror server on gigabit ethernet, with two OC48s to the commodity internet, as well as Internet2/Abilene, that currently acts as a high-volume mirror server for many large software distributions (http://mirror.services.wisc.edu )... ...IF you include clear information about how people can contact Apple for the $99 official iPod battery replacement (http://depot.info.apple.com/ipod/ ), and optionally, the multitudes of other inexpensive ways (e.g. http://ipodbattery.com/ $49) for people to replace their iPod batteries. But if you're just out for attention and sensationalism, I imagine you'll turn down this offer. - Dave ---------- On Nov 26, 2003, at 11:50 AM, casey oneistat wrote: > Dave, > > I am definately interested in this offer. I am not only out for > sensationalism, I would just like this to spread as much as possible, > and I don't mind showing people how to solve this problem. I will > create the web page with the selected information and then e-mail you > the URL. In the meantime please set up an account for me or you can > just place our video directly into shared webspace on your server. > > Thanks ---------- From: Dave Schroeder Subject: Re: I might be interested in providing a mirror... Date: November 26, 2003 12:01:32 PM CST To: casey oneistat Security: Signed Casey, Great. I don't have any problem with spreading the knowledge of how to solve the problem, either. In fact, I think it's desirable, and was probably complaints like this that caused Apple to offer its $99 battery replacement at all. I'll agree that Apple can be ridiculous about things at times, but you have to admit that we love their products - and when they do finally come around and fix problems, in the case with the iPod battery replacement, MDD G4 power supply replacements (largely as a direct result of g4noise.com), we should at least give them credit. For out-of-warranty iPods, many people will also no doubt consider a $49 3rd party do-it-yourself battery replacement to be acceptable. Give me a url to download the video file, and I'll put it up on the server and give you the url. The server is a dual G4 Xserve running Panther Server; we'll see how well it handles the traffic. - Dave ---------- From: Dave Schroeder Subject: Re: I might be interested in providing a mirror... Date: November 26, 2003 12:39:00 PM CST To: casey oneistat Security: Signed I received the video file. It is located at: http://144.92.104.38/mirrors/temp/ipodsdirtysecret.mov I will notify you if there are any changes. For your information: Apple iPod Battery Replacement Program, US$99 http://depot.info.apple.com/ipod/ AppleCare Protection Plan for iPod (extends warranty to 2 years; US$59) http://www.apple.com/support/products/applecareipod.html iPodBattery.com do-it-yourself replacement, including instructions, US$49 http://ipodbattery.com/ PDASmart.com do-it-yourself (US$59) or mail-in (US$68) replacement http://pdasmart.com/ipodpartscenter.htm (not for dockable iPod) - Dave ---------- On Nov 26, 2003, at 12:49 PM, casey oneistat wrote: > Dave, > > I hope you think it looks great: > http://ipodsdirtysecret.com/index2/indexFrameset-2.htm > > I changed it to frames because it made the text alot easier to access, > and I think it provides the information alot easier. > > Thanks for everything so far. (Note: at this point, the site still does not have any information about the battery replacements.) --------- From: Dave Schroeder Subject: Re: I might be interested in providing a mirror... (looks good) Date: November 26, 2003 1:04:18 PM CST To: casey oneistat Security: Signed FYI, The urls ended up having a "%20" on the end of them (probably from the copy and paste from my message), so some of them don't work. The other problem is that the links open up in that frame, so it kind of looks strange that way...you might want to do a Whatever to cause the windows to open in a new browser window. So if you're satisfied with that information, I guess the only thing to do is bring it live on the main site... - Dave ---------- On Nov 26, 2003, at 1:12 PM, casey oneistat wrote: > Work in progress, thanks alot though. Check back in 1 hour (eh > actually give me a lunch break in between so 1.75hr) --------- From: Dave Schroeder Subject: Re: I might be interested in providing a mirror... (looks good) Date: November 26, 2003 3:11:27 PM CST To: casey oneistat Security: Signed Ok, it's two hours later, and in the meantime I've provided over 9000 downloads for over 70GB of traffic, and 77 downloads/minute (avg): mirror:/var/log/httpd root# cat access_log.1069286400 | grep ipodsdirtysecret.mov | wc -l 9291 mirror:/var/log/httpd root# date Wed Nov 26 15:11:24 CST 2003 I've seen the links on your front page change several times, but no links to the battery replacement information. What gives? Are you planning on putting this up, or not? - Dave ---------- (No response from them.) ---------- From: Dave Schroeder Subject: Re: I might be interested in providing a mirror... (looks good) Date: November 26, 2003 3:40:36 PM CST To: casey oneistat Security: Signed Well, I'm leaving the office, and since you never posted any of the information you promised, I'm pulling the file. If you're tied up elsewhere and haven't had a chance to do it, my apologies; but it doesn't seem that is the case, since the links on the front page for mirrors changed at least two to three times in the interim period, and adding a link to Apple's iPod replacement would take less than a minute. I'd be happy to continue hosting it for you if and when you post the information. I just can't believe that you're not interested in telling people how to solve the main problem you complain about in your video, and that you'd rather have people believe that Apple thinks the iPod is disposable, doesn't care about customers, and that the only way to solve the problem is to buy a new iPod, the obvious implication being that you'll just have to buy another new iPod again in 18 months. None of that is, of course, true, not to mention there are many people who have first gen iPods that are well over 18 months old that continue to work just fine. But hey, to each his own. mirror:/var/log/httpd root# cat access_log.1069286400 | grep ipodsdirtysecret.mov | wc -l 12018 mirror:/var/log/httpd root# date Wed Nov 26 15:40:37 CST 2003 - Dave ---------- (Still no response, but more changes made to the web site, e.g., direct download link for the video added, but no info about how to solve the problem posted, as was promised.) ---------- From: Dave Schroeder Subject: Date: November 26, 2003 6:35:04 PM CST To: casey oneistat , vanneistat@hotmail.com Well, I left it up a few hours longer (until 6:30PM CT), just to give you the benefit of the doubt. What purpose does leaving the video up in its current form serve? Its whole mission is to protest that you can't get a reasonable battery replacement - but you can, yet you refuse to tell people how... You're trying to drive traffic, and spread it as widely as possible - you said it yourself - but you won't even give people options. And since the time you called into AppleCare, and filmed the video, Apple came up with a solution, making the whole thing moot. Are you upset that Apple's $99 official battery replacement program essentially negates your whole video? And then I offer to host it for you so long as you'll at least link to the information about how to solve the problem, and you don't even hold up your end of the deal. Nice. Is this how you treat other people you work with in filmmaking? - Dave ---------- On Nov 26, 2003, at 6:53 PM, casey oneistat wrote: > Dave, > > I am very sorry, it is true that we were using your bandwidth. But > you remember the frames page I showed you before, now I made that > mirror #1. Honestly that is what we wanted to do all along, because > although everything you say is relavent; it would confuse people. We > figure its seems contradictory that they told us 250$ (on the phone in > the video) for a repair and then offer it now for 100$, that is > actually something done because of us. > > I would still like to to make this work very much, and we even don't > mind having a banner (as you can see). So we would really like it if > you could be Mirror #1, and actually the mirrors do get a good amount > of hits also, so it is important. > > Thanks ---------- From: Dave Schroeder Subject: Re: sorry.... ipod mirror fixed Date: November 26, 2003 7:16:50 PM CST To: casey oneistat Look, I appreciate artistic expression, and I'm not trying to tell you how to present your work. But you seem to have a goal to make people aware of an issue, correct? And that issue was, up until recently, Apple had nothing useful to say if you had a problem with your battery. I mean, yes, I agree: $250 flat rate repair was ridiculous - it, for all intents and purposes, makes it seem like Apple treats the iPod as disposable, and you might as well just get a new one. Keep in mind that the overall percentages of people experiencing severe out-of-warranty battery failure is very low. Yes, it has happened. But I, and a dozen or so of my friends, still have 1st gen iPods that are all about 2 years old, all of which are working fine (except one that was dropped from a balcony onto concrete). It is at least questionable and at most patently untrue to say that the battery only lasts 18 months. Now, you called into AppleCare and got the official Apple response, which, I'll agree, was ludicrous no matter how big or small the issue. But Apple FIXED it. Your goal is accomplished. Maybe there will be disagreement on the $99 price, that it should be less, or whatever, but the fact is that the battery issue affects a relatively small amount of iPod owners, and that's the truth. There are tens of thousands of early, 1st gen iPods out there still in service with marginal degradation to battery life. I know, because I'm the primary Apple systems engineer on this campus of 80,000 people, and we have hundreds of these early iPods out there. As for what caused Apple to introduce this program, it's been in the works since early October, and was unveiled on November 21. ipodsdirtysecret.com was only registered on November 20th. You can decide what happened. But yes, it is very likely that customers like yourselves are what initiated this change, and that's great. But that's the point: they CHANGED their policy; they RESPONDED to customers. So you should indicate that on your web site. Hell, even SAY that it's because of your campaign that Apple has offered the program! That has more impact than essentially lying about it. Because currently, the content and spirit of your video is false. You do not have to buy a new iPod, Apple has a solution, and it's not $250. I'm not sure why you're so loathe to tell people that. What impression do you think people walk away with from thaat video? If it's purely for art, then fine, I'll agree it doesn't need any other qualification, and times change. But it's not just that: you're trying to get a message out: that IPODS UNREPLACEABLE BATTERY ONLY LASTS 18 MONTHS. But there is only one problem with that: it's not true! Doesn't that make sense to you? And on top of it all, NO Lithium Ion battery lasts forever! Apple's using best-of-breed Li Ion batteries, and is using a greatly improved design for the 3rd generation. Apple has learned from potential manufacturing/design issues and is addressing them, and is, even if belatedly, addressing customer issues on the older iPods. What more do you want? You don't even have to put all the links on the main page - I'm not telling you how to run your site or showcase your video. But in the interests of at least a shred of honesty, how about a "Click here for Apple's response", even in a small font? I mean, yes, it's confusing, but I can't believe what you're saying: you'd rather just outright lie to people. I mean, of course it's Apple's job to inform people about its replacement program, but how many people are going to see your site, take it as the truth, especially because of the recording (and the creative imagery), and not even bother to ASK Apple? And hurt Apple, for what? Because they didn't have a response quick enough? I just don't understand...g4noise.com was tremendously happy when Apple *finally* responded to the noise issues, and they were trying to reveal issues in somewhat the same fashion. But once Apple responded, they at least let their readership know... Let me know what you'd like to do. I don't have any problem with being a mirror. But...if you don't mind a banner, then how about a banner that advertises the various iPod battery replacement options...? - Dave ---------- On Nov 26, 2003, at 7:38 PM, casey oneistat wrote: > How about something like this: > > http://ipodsdirtysecret.com/index2/indexFrameset-2.htm (Note: none of this is still linked or otherwise accessible from the main page.) ---------- From: Dave Schroeder Subject: Re: iPOD how about something like this Date: November 26, 2003 7:46:21 PM CST To: casey oneistat Well, something like that looks great to me. Your video gets the point across, and visitors can see that Apple has responded. I'm not suggesting that it overtake your site, or negate your work. The idea that it is *because of* your work is all the more compelling, and I think makes the video have even more impact. That's just my thoughts on it...now, if you think that's important information, it would stand to reason that it should either be displayed on, or somehow linked in a meaningful fashion from (i.e., not just "Mirror"), the front/main page. That way, people get there, watch the video, see the import and significance of Apple's original (non-)response, and then are made aware that there IS now a solution, and that Apple has offered it. Look, I'm not trying to tell you what to do...but does that make sense to you? - Dave ---------- (Note: At this point, I put the file back, because I thought they were going to fix it; they were already linking to another mirror on the main page. Instead, they AGAIN linked to my site exclusively as the source of the file, STILL didn't post any info about how to correct the battery problem, and even put a banner of a ANOTHER web provider on the site, all the while, connecting to MY site. I found this all out on Thanksgiving. Then, I sent the following message.) ---------- From: Dave Schroeder Subject: What the hell? Date: November 27, 2003 4:04:30 PM CST To: casey oneistat , vanneistat@hotmail.com Jesus, I cannot BELIEVE you guys. In good faith, I put the video back on the basis of the email you sent me, hoping that at least some people would click on the mirror link at at least get the truth, and information about how to replace the battery. Instead, you removed the mirror link entirely, used the bandwidth and resources that I was providing you exclusively on your front page, AGAIN without providing ANY information whatsoever about how users can solve this problem, or the fact that Apple now has an official $99 battery replacement, and on top of it all, put ThruPort's banner on the front page! I've now served 91,629 downloads for you, for over 0.6 terabytes of data transfer. What the fuck is you guys' problem? I guess that fact that you are liars shouldn't surprise me, since that's exactly what your whole site and the video is. Have fun with it, and whatever fucked up satisfaction you get from having as many people as possible see your video, and not even wanting to tell people that there is a solution. - Dave Reference: ipodsdirtysecret.com source as of 4:03PM 11/27/03 iPod's Dirty Secret - Neistat Brothers
 

To contact the Neistat Brothers with compliments or hate ipodsdirtysecret@hotmail.com

To download this file, "Save Target As" - this link

 
 
 
 
 

 

---------- (So yes, I'm an idiot for trusting them. And yes, I know they can do whatever they want. But this is just to show you what type of people they are. Within minutes of me pulling the file, they already linked to another mirror of it. I guess they're more content with spreading lies than actually telling people how to solve the problem.) From cgaraffa at creativeaim.com Thu Nov 27 20:28:01 2003 From: cgaraffa at creativeaim.com (Chris Garaffa) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: DeLocalizer features Message-ID: <23CA6E3C-215B-11D8-8143-000393D00E20@creativeaim.com> Hi everyone, I was on Mike Bombich's website and noticed that he's no longer developing DeLocalizer . Being curious, I emailed him and asked if he was interested in DeLocalizer development continuing with someone else, and he had no problem with me taking over. So my questions to everyone are this: What do you like about DeLocalizer? What don't you like? What features would you like to see? Thanks -- Chris Garaffa cgaraffa@creativeaim.com From mmalc_lists at mac.com Thu Nov 27 22:14:04 2003 From: mmalc_lists at mac.com (mmalcolm crawford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 8, 2003, at 1:10 PM, Roger Howard wrote: > On Nov 8, 2003, at 12:22 PM, Lukreme wrote: >> On 08 Nov 2003, at 12:35, Roger Howard wrote: >>> if they can get a version out as bullet-proof as on Windows then >>> they'll do it. >> Bwahahahahahahahaha. >> er.. ahem. >> >> you said "bullet-proof" and "Windows" in the same sentence >> > And you snicker at reality because of some misguided religious > position on operating systems. I'm not promoting Windows here, just > explaining the rationale that has been quite reasonably explained to > me. >> Come on, does anyone really believe MSFTs DRM won't be cracked like a >> week-old crab left on a sun-bleached rock? > I didn't say I didn't believe it could be cracked, though it's been > out for several years on the most cracker-prone platform and is yet to > be cracked. The WM team has explicitly expressed that they are very > interested in getting WM DRM7 onto Mac OSX, but that the concern is > making sure it is up to the standard of the existing release on > Windows. > DRM7 *will* eventually be cracked [...] So, it seems, will FairPlay: etc. mmalc From rogerhoward at mac.com Thu Nov 27 22:34:17 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 27, 2003, at 10:13 PM, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > > On Nov 8, 2003, at 1:10 PM, Roger Howard wrote: >> On Nov 8, 2003, at 12:22 PM, Lukreme wrote: >>> On 08 Nov 2003, at 12:35, Roger Howard wrote: >>>> if they can get a version out as bullet-proof as on Windows then >>>> they'll do it. >>> Bwahahahahahahahaha. >>> er.. ahem. >>> >>> you said "bullet-proof" and "Windows" in the same sentence >>> >> And you snicker at reality because of some misguided religious >> position on operating systems. I'm not promoting Windows here, just >> explaining the rationale that has been quite reasonably explained to >> me. >>> Come on, does anyone really believe MSFTs DRM won't be cracked like >>> a week-old crab left on a sun-bleached rock? >> I didn't say I didn't believe it could be cracked, though it's been >> out for several years on the most cracker-prone platform and is yet >> to be cracked. The WM team has explicitly expressed that they are >> very interested in getting WM DRM7 onto Mac OSX, but that the concern >> is making sure it is up to the standard of the existing release on >> Windows. >> DRM7 *will* eventually be cracked [...] > > So, it seems, will FairPlay: > rtr1162490.html> > category=1700&slug=DVD%20Kid%20iTunes> > redirect=1069971105000> > etc. > > mmalc Not to minimize this effort, but it's more of an implementation crack, he hasn't (yet) broken it to the point of being able to arbitrarily decrypt protected AACs (for instance, it requires you to be authorized for the track). MS DRM 1 had a similar attack in its early days, which was fixed with a patch. What's not clear is whether this is an iTunes/Windows-only vulnerability, or if something similar is possible on Mac OSX too. However, now that he can do this - build a decrypted AAC otherwise identical to the protected AAC from iTMS - it should allow him to attack the encryption directly, which may or may not eventually result in a generic method to defect protected AAC. Of course, none of this changes the fact that as of now, it's possible to decrypt existing iTMS tracks with existing software, and with a little work this will be turned into a one-click process - if you are authorized for the track, you'll be able to dump a decrypted AAC to a file which will be aurally identical to the encrypted version which you can then share without authorizing. Maybe when they patch iTunes (or is it Quicktime) to fix this vuln they will make new tracks incompatible with the older iTunes (to avoid new tracks from being cracked with old software), maybe through a reissue of licenses across the whole collection. This is where DRM becomes a constant arms race, tit for tat between crackers and vendors, with the rest of us caught in the middle. -R From omnigroup at spacemoo.com Thu Nov 27 22:52:05 2003 From: omnigroup at spacemoo.com (Dieder Bylsma) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: >>standard of the existing release on Windows. >>DRM7 *will* eventually be cracked [...] > >So, it seems, will FairPlay: > > etc. Be happy to be relieved of my delusions to the contrary, but I fail to see how this is an example of 'FairPlay' being cracked. The algorithm has not been cracked, simply the output of the decryption process prior to its dispatch off to the audio system. Now if that means that any AAC-protected-content piece can be played regardless of its origins (i.e. on a 'non-authorized' computer prior to its post-decryption-pre-audio-output stage) then that's another story. Dieder From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 28 03:03:02 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: DeLocalizer features In-Reply-To: <23CA6E3C-215B-11D8-8143-000393D00E20@creativeaim.com> References: <23CA6E3C-215B-11D8-8143-000393D00E20@creativeaim.com> Message-ID: <52676B7B-2192-11D8-8FC1-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> On 28 Nov 2003, at 04:27, Chris Garaffa wrote: > So my questions to everyone are this: What do you like about > DeLocalizer? What don't you like? What features would you like to see? An opportunity to remove American English? -- Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Fri Nov 28 12:38:00 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: The Neistat Brothers' Dirty Secret In-Reply-To: <6AC06AD6-2141-11D8-A74E-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> References: <6AC06AD6-2141-11D8-A74E-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: > And yes, I know they can do whatever they want. But this is just to > show you what type of people they are. Of course, this will never make it to Slashdot. So, who said these guys weren't a bunch of retards? Let's see... > Within minutes of me pulling the file, they already linked to another > mirror of it. I guess they're more content with spreading lies than > actually telling people how to solve the problem.) Oh, I know, the guy who said that these guys weren't a bunch of morons is the same guy who GOT the point (lies) across. j. From jared at 23x.net Fri Nov 28 14:25:02 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Home Streaming Video ... Re: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: <6B9AAE0B-20CC-11D8-B55D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <006DBDAF-2070-11D8-BAC7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <72AC3B2A-20C5-11D8-9008-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> <6B9AAE0B-20CC-11D8-B55D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <9E3594D0-21F1-11D8-B925-000A958F180A@23x.net> On 27 Nov 2003, at 12:25, Matt wrote: > That's even more than I want. I just want to stream the live TV > (doesn't have to be realtime, a few seconds pause is fine) http://www.elgato.com/eyeTV/eyetv400.html Will that do? -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "There is no SPORK" From listuser at magicmiles.com Fri Nov 28 14:59:04 2003 From: listuser at magicmiles.com (m i l e s) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: OFF: PureFTPd Message-ID: Does anyone use this FTP server ? If so, Im having an issue with permissions.....as in users can't upload or download anything, even though "restrict access" is checked or unchecked, it doesn't matter... Ive stopped and started the server dozen times, restarted and still nada. Im running this under Panther 10.3.1. Anyone...please contact me directly, offlist... Thanks. -- M i l e s President & Toolbox Architect MagicMiles Software (413) 374 - 5161 PO Box 414, Northampton, MA 01060 http://www.servicetoolbox.com/ http://www.workshoptoolbox.com/ http://www.healingartstoolbox.com/ http://www.artshoptoolbox.com/ We create content management systems for the rest of us, starting at $25.00 a month, includes domain registration, web hosting, email and webmail. Great for Yoga Teachers, Massage Therapists, Lawyers, Doctors, and any professional! From pelorus at mac.com Fri Nov 28 15:26:54 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Home Streaming Video ... Re: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: <9E3594D0-21F1-11D8-B925-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <006DBDAF-2070-11D8-BAC7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <72AC3B2A-20C5-11D8-9008-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> <6B9AAE0B-20CC-11D8-B55D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <9E3594D0-21F1-11D8-B925-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: On 28 Nov 2003, at 22:24, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > On 27 Nov 2003, at 12:25, Matt wrote: >> That's even more than I want. I just want to stream the live TV >> (doesn't have to be realtime, a few seconds pause is fine) > > http://www.elgato.com/eyeTV/eyetv400.html > > Will that do? Well, it's a FireWire-totin', DVB-T-fetchin varmint but it doesn't do streaming. Needs a FW connection to your Mac. M -- Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. From das at doit.wisc.edu Fri Nov 28 16:06:02 2003 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Home Streaming Video ... Re: Cringely predicts new Apple Tablet computer In-Reply-To: References: <006DBDAF-2070-11D8-BAC7-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <72AC3B2A-20C5-11D8-9008-000393A6BF06@union.arizona.edu> <6B9AAE0B-20CC-11D8-B55D-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <9E3594D0-21F1-11D8-B925-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: On Nov 28, 2003, at 5:21 PM, Matt wrote: > > On 28 Nov 2003, at 22:24, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > >> On 27 Nov 2003, at 12:25, Matt wrote: >>> That's even more than I want. I just want to stream the live TV >>> (doesn't have to be realtime, a few seconds pause is fine) >> >> http://www.elgato.com/eyeTV/eyetv400.html >> >> Will that do? > > Well, it's a FireWire-totin', DVB-T-fetchin varmint but it doesn't do > streaming. Needs a FW connection to your Mac. For what it's worth, here's the two solutions I've used for TV streaming on US NTSC: ** EyeTV + CyTV http://www.lucid-cake.net/cytv/index_en.html It's a pretty seamless MPEG-1 streaming solution that allows you to easily change channels on the client. Darn good for free and version 0.3. Requires vlc on the client. It's surprisingly good, and does the job. ** Televio + QT Broadcaster + Philips SAA713x PCI TV tuner card Televio does the unique thing of exposing the video and audio stream as a QuickTime VDIG - meaning any QT aware application can use it...including QuickTime Broadcaster. This also means you have total control over your streaming settings. Also includes a way of remotely changing channels. These are the only integrated solutions I know of (for US NTSC) that will do this. (Formac Studio DV/TV will NOT work because of a hardware sound syncing issue that Formac hasn't shown interest in fixing.) These solutions also require, of course, a base Mac that is the source of the stream. There are PAL versions of both EyeTV and the Philips tuner cards. That said, I'd love a nicely done, integrated, end-to-end TV/PVR solution and/or appliance for Mac. (Another iApp..."iTV", and some integrated hardware, anyone?) But alas, Apple doesn't seem interested in making this happen... - Dave From crusader_x at mac.com Fri Nov 28 20:25:01 2003 From: crusader_x at mac.com (RogueWriter) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: SETI Screensaver and Expose Message-ID: Anyone else having problems getting these two to cooperate? I like setting a corner to activate SETI. However, when I have any of the other corners set with Expose, the SETI corner stops working even though Expose has nothing set there. Since I can't set SETI as an actual screensaver, I can't set Expose to run it. EK From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 29 04:42:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: mini digital cameras and Mac OS X Message-ID: <5773B24A-2269-11D8-AE37-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Anyone have recommendations on the "mini digital camera" - usuallly the sub 1 Megapixel range - and compatibility with iPhoto and Mac OS X in general? I'm looking for a small, pocketable digital camera that doesn't use flash cards but rather has built-in flash memory that it uses for storage. 24 exposures is fine. And working with iPhoto and Image Capture would be ideal. Anyone got any models they use? -- Eve succumbed to the temptation of the Apple. From mlists at cotingent.com Sat Nov 29 09:31:02 2003 From: mlists at cotingent.com (Matt Ronge) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I got my original 5GB iPod pretty early on (must have been one of the > first batch in the UK) has seen generally regular use with the odd > period of disuse (once for about a fortnight, after which it seemed > completely dead, wouldn't charge, etc. - can't remember how I reset it > now). Its battery is still going strong... I'm sure it's lost a bit of > capacity but nothing horrible. Haven't timed it but it never > disappoints. My 5GB iPod which is about two years old only holds a few hours worth of charge now. If I fully charge my iPod and then let it sit for 2-3 days it will have absolutely no charge when I try and use it again. It won't even turn on and display the low battery screen. So I have to always keep it plugged in to my Mac now. Anyone else having problems like this? Any ideas on how I can fix my iPod? And yes, I have the latest firmware on my iPod. -- Matt From rogerhoward at mac.com Sat Nov 29 10:53:01 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: mini digital cameras and Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <5773B24A-2269-11D8-AE37-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> References: <5773B24A-2269-11D8-AE37-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> Message-ID: <2105372D-229D-11D8-B99A-0003938C8B26@mac.com> On Nov 29, 2003, at 4:41 AM, Matt wrote: > > Anyone have recommendations on the "mini digital camera" - usuallly > the sub 1 Megapixel range - and compatibility with iPhoto and Mac OS X > in general? > > I'm looking for a small, pocketable digital camera that doesn't use > flash cards but rather has built-in flash memory that it uses for > storage. 24 exposures is fine. And working with iPhoto and Image > Capture would be ideal. > > Anyone got any models they use? I haven't got any that were supported by stock OSX, but ioExperts has a good driver for cheap still cameras that I use. I like some of the Aiptek cameras myself, but really many of the brands use the same chips and just design their own shells for them. My honest opinion is that these shitty cameras are of almost no use though, unless its for artistic purposes and you WANT to work with its limitations. If you actually expect to use and share the photographs, I'd look for between 2 and 3 megapixels from a reasonable brand... there are lots of tiny 3 megapixel models out there, and even a good 2 megapixel model will produce something usable. If you want more info, message me... -R From pelorus at mac.com Sat Nov 29 11:13:01 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: mini digital cameras and Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <2105372D-229D-11D8-B99A-0003938C8B26@mac.com> References: <5773B24A-2269-11D8-AE37-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <2105372D-229D-11D8-B99A-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: On 29 Nov 2003, at 18:52, Roger Howard wrote: > My honest opinion is that these shitty cameras are of almost no use > though, unless its for artistic purposes and you WANT to work with its > limitations. If you actually expect to use and share the photographs, > I'd look for between 2 and 3 megapixels from a reasonable brand... > there are lots of tiny 3 megapixel models out there, and even a good 2 > megapixel model will produce something usable. Aha, but these are not for any artistic reason other than providing a kid who is learning-limited with a cheap (almost to the point of disposable) digital camera which he can plug into the family Mac and use iPhoto. So while it's not going to be for anything artistic, it is to empower someone. M From fabienlroy at mac.com Sat Nov 29 11:25:01 2003 From: fabienlroy at mac.com (Fabien Roy) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can buy a replacement battery and instructions for $49 at: Also you can have it serviced by Apple for $99. Hope that helps. Fabien On Nov 29, 2003, at 9:30 AM, Matt Ronge wrote: >> I got my original 5GB iPod pretty early on (must have been one of the >> first batch in the UK) has seen generally regular use with the odd >> period of disuse (once for about a fortnight, after which it seemed >> completely dead, wouldn't charge, etc. - can't remember how I reset it >> now). Its battery is still going strong... I'm sure it's lost a bit of >> capacity but nothing horrible. Haven't timed it but it never >> disappoints. > > My 5GB iPod which is about two years old only holds a few hours worth > of > charge now. If I fully charge my iPod and then let it sit for 2-3 days > it > will have absolutely no charge when I try and use it again. It won't > even > turn on and display the low battery screen. So I have to always keep it > plugged in to my Mac now. Anyone else having problems like this? Any > ideas > on how I can fix my iPod? > > And yes, I have the latest firmware on my iPod. > -- > Matt > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-talk mailing list > MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk > From jesusdiaz at apinet.es Sat Nov 29 11:35:03 2003 From: jesusdiaz at apinet.es (Jesus Diaz Blanco) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: mini digital cameras and Mac OS X In-Reply-To: <2105372D-229D-11D8-B99A-0003938C8B26@mac.com> References: <5773B24A-2269-11D8-AE37-000A95C4E5FE@mac.com> <2105372D-229D-11D8-B99A-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: El Nov 29, 2003, a las 7:52 PM, Roger Howard escribi?: > If you want more info, message me... Well, yeah, I would like MORE info indeed: > (completely off-topic, gross and sexually intimidating comment was > here) > > This completely off-topic, gross and sexually intimidating part of the > message transferred automatically to OSX Nutters > thanks to The > Great Mariachi Chapter of the OSX Nutters Mail List. > > The Great Mariachi Chapter of the OSX Nutters Mail List. Because We > Just Don't Bloody Care? So if you can, Roger, please send that info. Thanks in advance! [1] j. [1] On second thought, don't answer the later question. From dennyrex at earthlink.net Sat Nov 29 14:55:00 2003 From: dennyrex at earthlink.net (Rick Sanford) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0BD641A9-22BF-11D8-BFC1-000393D70E24@earthlink.net> On Saturday, November 29, 2003, at 02:24 PM, Fabien Roy wrote: > You can buy a replacement battery and instructions for $49 at: > > > > Also you can have it serviced by Apple for $99. > > Hope that helps. > > Fabien there's a lovely picture of the insides of an iPod (generation unknown) in Sunday's NYTimes magazine section (focus on design) showing the battery... -rick From jared at 23x.net Sat Nov 29 15:10:05 2003 From: jared at 23x.net (Jared ''Danger'' Earle) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16991658-22BF-11D8-B03E-000A958F180A@23x.net> On 29 Nov 2003, at 18:30, Matt Ronge wrote: > My 5GB iPod which is about two years old only holds a few hours worth > of > charge now. If I fully charge my iPod and then let it sit for 2-3 days > it > will have absolutely no charge when I try and use it again. It won't > even > turn on and display the low battery screen. So I have to always keep it > plugged in to my Mac now. Anyone else having problems like this? Any > ideas > on how I can fix my iPod? I get over 10 hours from one charge on my $DEITY-knows-how-old second-hand M8541 5GB iPod. It's in daily use: morning to night at work, my office mate wants to hear my "music I've never heard of" tunes. Should I treat every day as a gift to be treasured or should I just keep pounding my poor podule to death in a drive-it-like-you-stole-it manner? -- Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@23x.net - http://www.23x.net "Watashi-wa shin no SUPORUKU desu" From das at doit.wisc.edu Sat Nov 29 21:03:02 2003 From: das at doit.wisc.edu (Dave Schroeder) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <16991658-22BF-11D8-B03E-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <16991658-22BF-11D8-B03E-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: <2E4F8FA8-22F2-11D8-A2EA-000A95A4FCB4@doit.wisc.edu> On Nov 29, 2003, at 4:55 PM, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > On 29 Nov 2003, at 18:30, Matt Ronge wrote: >> My 5GB iPod which is about two years old only holds a few hours worth >> of >> charge now. If I fully charge my iPod and then let it sit for 2-3 >> days it >> will have absolutely no charge when I try and use it again. It won't >> even >> turn on and display the low battery screen. So I have to always keep >> it >> plugged in to my Mac now. Anyone else having problems like this? Any >> ideas >> on how I can fix my iPod? > > I get over 10 hours from one charge on my $DEITY-knows-how-old > second-hand M8541 5GB iPod. It's in daily use: morning to night at > work, my office mate wants to hear my "music I've never heard of" > tunes. > > Should I treat every day as a gift to be treasured or should I just > keep pounding my poor podule to death in a drive-it-like-you-stole-it > manner? Neither. This is the norm for 1st gen iPods - people experiencing severe battery issues are in a very small minority. Continue to treat it well, and it will serve you well. And when the day comes that its battery no longer holds a satisfactory charge, you have several options - both from Apple and 3rd parties - to replace the battery, either yourself, or via mail-in. - Dave From kremels at kreme.com Sun Nov 30 00:14:02 2003 From: kremels at kreme.com (Lukreme) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <16991658-22BF-11D8-B03E-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <16991658-22BF-11D8-B03E-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: <0E082C0A-230D-11D8-993C-000A95935598@kreme.com> On 29 Nov 2003, at 15:55, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > On 29 Nov 2003, at 18:30, Matt Ronge wrote: >> My 5GB iPod which is about two years old only holds a few hours worth >> of >> charge now. If I fully charge my iPod and then let it sit for 2-3 >> days it >> will have absolutely no charge when I try and use it again. It won't >> even >> turn on and display the low battery screen. So I have to always keep >> it >> plugged in to my Mac now. Anyone else having problems like this? Any >> ideas >> on how I can fix my iPod? > > I get over 10 hours from one charge on my $DEITY-knows-how-old > second-hand M8541 5GB iPod. It's in daily use: morning to night at > work, my office mate wants to hear my "music I've never heard of" > tunes. > > Should I treat every day as a gift to be treasured or should I just > keep pounding my poor podule to death in a drive-it-like-you-stole-it > manner? The best way to make sure the battery lasts is to pound it like you are. the more frequently it is recharged with a partial charge, the faster it seems to die. Yes, I know they claim that "memory" doesn't apply to newer generation batteries, but that certainly hasn't been my experience. Run it dry, recharge seems to work best for cellphones and ipods and laptops. -- I can't die, I haven't seen The Jolson Story - Jetboy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : /mailman/archive/macosx-talk/attachments/20031130/4b699535/smime.bin From larkost at softhome.net Sun Nov 30 08:05:04 2003 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: Mac OS X Exploit (Re: Remote root vuln) In-Reply-To: <6DACD599-20A7-11D8-9252-000393D4AB70@joar.com> References: <7C444633-2060-11D8-A622-000A956A6E02@opendarwin.org> <72E8CF85-2069-11D8-A7CE-003065CA9E5A@maxify.com> <6DACD599-20A7-11D8-9252-000393D4AB70@joar.com> Message-ID: <4790B7DB-234F-11D8-8A90-003065C12208@softhome.net> The Network Directory Services are turned on so that if you putting a new computer onto such a network, all you have to do is plug it in. Apple's main thinking in this is to make using MacOS X Server very easy. Finding a secure solution to this is not going to be easy, and would definitely take more than 45 days to implement and test. Remember, Apple has to do this in such a way as to try and not break all the existing installations out there, and find ways to make the exisiting computers out there work with the new solution, regardless of what version of the OS they currently have. And all of this has to work with the firmware that allows for net-boot... This is not a trivial task. Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net On Nov 27, 2003, at 2:00 AM, j o a r wrote: > But why even have all these things enabled per default? At my office > we authenticate to a Solaris server using NIS (very painful, as the > NIS implementation in both Jaguar and Panther is so buggy) - but I > expect that the vast majority of Mac OS X users only ever run local > accounts. I would much rather see that you had to manually turn on and > configure directory services on client machines, than having them > enabled by default. From larkost at softhome.net Sun Nov 30 08:24:02 2003 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: One small note on this... the current version of the crack only exports the unencrypted data, which is worthless without the header information telling you what it is. The files that it creates are still unplayable. This is a step in the direction of breaking the FairPlay DRM, possibly even a big one, but it is still not yet broken. Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net PS... the only way of completely eliminating this sort of attack is... I hate to say it... a trusted system sort of approach. I think a far better solution than Microsoft's would be a media chip that did this sort of processing and dumped directly to the frame/audio buffer's itself.. The same chip could even be used in computers, DV players, etc... On Nov 28, 2003, at 1:33 AM, Roger Howard wrote: > However, now that he can do this - build a decrypted AAC otherwise > identical to the protected AAC from iTMS - it should allow him to > attack the encryption directly, which may or may not eventually result > in a generic method to defect protected AAC. > > Of course, none of this changes the fact that as of now, it's possible > to decrypt existing iTMS tracks with existing software, and with a > little work this will be turned into a one-click process - if you are > authorized for the track, you'll be able to dump a decrypted AAC to a > file which will be aurally identical to the encrypted version which > you can then share without authorizing. From rogerhoward at mac.com Sun Nov 30 10:22:11 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 30, 2003, at 8:26 AM, Karl Kuehn wrote: > One small note on this... the current version of the crack only > exports the unencrypted data, which is worthless without the header > information telling you what it is. The files that it creates are > still unplayable. This is a step in the direction of breaking the > FairPlay DRM, possibly even a big one, but it is still not yet broken. Again, it's not worthless if your goal is to have cleartext to compare to ciphertext - in this case, comparing encrypted and decrypted (but otherwise identical ) AAC frames. Also, it's been demonstrated that it's quite possible to add the necessary headers, by hand if necessary. If someone can do that, then there will be a simple tool to automate it. But yes, as I pointed out in my first response, it's not a general break of the encryption in FairPlay - but I wouldn't say FairPlay hasn't been broken... the point of FairPlay is to prevent access to decrypted copies of iTMS tracks and that has happened. Since it's apparently an implementation problem (at some point they are passing around decrypted AAC frames, which can be intercepted and dumped to disk) it can be fixed, but it doesn't change the fact that Apple now needs to deal with a broken DRM. I'm very surprised there hasn't been some form of triage yet - a temporary patch to spoil things for DVD Jon maybe - but then maybe that's their plan: to prevent major press spin, which so far hasn't really covered this in a crisis tone. To see how paranoid Microsoft's DRM is - and how much smoke and mirrors is necessary in these systems - Cryptome has an excellent look at their first-gen DRM . It's not that any of it makes cracking impossible, it's more that you put up enough barriers that it would take significant resources to chip away at each individual barrier... of course that's the hope - that folks will have to go through those barriers, and not just make an end run like DeCSS and decrypt directly. DRM is doomed, especially if they ever start using it for sensitive documents and other material more valuable than the latest pop track. -R From charlesd at newsguy.com Sun Nov 30 11:18:25 2003 From: charlesd at newsguy.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: At 10:20 -0800 30/11/2003, Roger Howard wrote: >But yes, as I pointed out in my first response, it's not a general >break of the encryption in FairPlay - but I wouldn't say FairPlay >hasn't been broken... the point of FairPlay is to prevent access to >decrypted copies of iTMS tracks and that has happened. Since it's >apparently an implementation problem (at some point they are passing >around decrypted AAC frames, which can be intercepted and dumped to >disk) it can be fixed, but it doesn't change the fact that Apple now >needs to deal with a broken DRM. I'm very surprised there hasn't >been some form of triage yet - a temporary patch to spoil things for >DVD Jon maybe - but then maybe that's their plan: to prevent major >press spin, which so far hasn't really covered this in a crisis tone. Ahh, perhaps I'm missing something, but... Surely the simplest way to beat Apple's DRM is just to burn a CD using iTunes or Toast? I can't tell the diff between such CDs and the original ITMS tracks. Nor is there any significant diff between that CD and tracks RIPed from it. There is a (slight) diff between ITMS tracks and an original CD and some diff between tracks RIPed from an original CD and those RIPed from a CD made from ITMS tracks, but that may simply be an artifact of the diff between MP3 and MP4 RIPing. CDs made from ITMS tracks using iTunes can and do play just fine on normal CD players and on computers which don't have iTunes at all, much less are 'authorised' ITMS machines. -- We are Microsoft of Borg. You will be assimilated. Stability is irrelevant. Where _you_ want to go to today is irrelevant. We will add your currency to our own. Bend over right now. Resistance is futile. From mc at fivebats.com Sun Nov 30 14:28:27 2003 From: mc at fivebats.com (Mike Coleman) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: (Roger Howard's message of "Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:20:06 -0800") References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: Roger Howard writes: > broken... the point of FairPlay is to prevent access to decrypted copies of > iTMS tracks and that has happened. Since it's apparently an implementation > problem (at some point they are passing around decrypted AAC frames, which > can be intercepted and dumped to disk) it can be fixed, but it doesn't > change the fact that Apple now needs to deal with a broken DRM. I don't see it that way. The DRM is broken if you can read my iTMS files on your computer without authorization. Once that happens you can start talking about Apple taking action. So far the hacks require making a real-time copy on a licensed machine. If the hack you are discussing really does what is claimed, it isn't much different aurally than making a PCM copy and reencoding it in AAC, which you already can do without breaking any DRM license. The iTMS AAC is already encoded at a high enough bitrate that I doubt that a single reencode will harm the audio quality that much. I would guess that only those who have problems with the sound of the original will not like the sound of a reencoded iTMS file. -mc -- Mike Coleman Five Bats Incorporated, Portland Oregon From rogerhoward at mac.com Sun Nov 30 15:20:03 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: <7B2AE95C-238B-11D8-94CC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> On Nov 30, 2003, at 2:11 PM, Mike Coleman wrote: > Roger Howard writes: > >> broken... the point of FairPlay is to prevent access to decrypted >> copies of >> iTMS tracks and that has happened. Since it's apparently an >> implementation >> problem (at some point they are passing around decrypted AAC frames, >> which >> can be intercepted and dumped to disk) it can be fixed, but it doesn't >> change the fact that Apple now needs to deal with a broken DRM. > > I don't see it that way. The DRM is broken if you can read my iTMS > files on > your computer without authorization. Once that happens you can start > talking about Apple taking action. So far the hacks require making a > real-time copy on a licensed machine. Well, I've tried to make that distinction clear - yes, this hack only works for those authorized to play the track. However, given that DRM's goal is to protect the cleartext (in this case, decrypted AAC frames) from consumers, even legit ones, I'd say it's somewhat broken at least, and will require a patch. I can't see Apple not releasing a patch for this, given the heat they've gotten for other things - iTunes Sharing, Rip Mix & Burn, etc. > If the hack you are discussing really does what is claimed, it isn't > much > different aurally than making a PCM copy and reencoding it in AAC, > which you > already can do without breaking any DRM license. The iTMS AAC is > already > encoded at a high enough bitrate that I doubt that a single reencode > will > harm the audio quality that much. I would guess that only those who > have > problems with the sound of the original will not like the sound of a > reencoded iTMS file. It's absolutely different - if it weren't, Apple wouldn't be trying to prevent access to the decrypted copy of your iTMS purchases. First, I think it's a little shortsighted to think people won't take advantage of this. A PCM copy - as you well know - is very different from the compressed, but decrypted AAC stream - the main difference being the lack of an additional lossy stage before distributing the file online. Yes, much of the music traded on Napster was shit for quality, and no not everyone is so particular, but it's clearly the scenario labels (and other DRM addicts) wish to avoid. There absolutely is an aural difference between an first-gen AAC, and one twice-encoded at the same bitrate. How substantial the difference is depends on your tastes, of course. Anyway, it's broken in my mind simply because it's now possible to do something not granted by the license, and obviously not intended by Apple. I'm not saying it's the end of the world, but there may be folks who disagree... studios and labels are very sensitive about DRM right now, and are very interested in finding one that "works" - meaning doesn't expose their content other than in ways intended by the license. iTunes for Windows at the very least isn't fully enforcing this. I'm not a fan of DRM at all, but I'm very familiar with it. I'm not saying Apple should be held to the fire over this, but I fear they will be... it'll at very least be fodder for MS DRM proponents to counter FairPlay and iTMS in the relationships with labels, as I know is already happening. I guess I'm afraid we'll see Apple marginalized from the content provider end if they don't take the paranoia of those labels seriously... if Apple can't demonstrate to the labels that it is looking out for their content then regardless of the morality, politics, or market success of iTMS Apple may find it harder and harder to compete with those who have convinced Hollywood they can. One final thought, which I think I've mentioned on this list - having access to a protected AAC and the decrypted samples will provide a major starting point for attacking the cryptography directly, possibly resulting in a generic break of FairPlay without requiring authorization first. I can't say this *will* be successful, but simply that it provides a serious advantage for people trying to break it. That's cryptanalysis 101, and another significant reason why DRM's build up all the smoke and mirrors to protect the decrypted data even from legit users. They don't mind you making a PCM copy because that'll do nothing to help break FairPlay, but a decrypted (but otherwise identical) track is a different story for cryptogeeks. Cheers, Roger From rogerhoward at mac.com Sun Nov 30 15:31:41 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 30, 2003, at 11:17 AM, Charles Dyer wrote: > At 10:20 -0800 30/11/2003, Roger Howard wrote: >> But yes, as I pointed out in my first response, it's not a general >> break of the encryption in FairPlay - but I wouldn't say FairPlay >> hasn't been broken... the point of FairPlay is to prevent access to >> decrypted copies of iTMS tracks and that has happened. Since it's >> apparently an implementation problem (at some point they are passing >> around decrypted AAC frames, which can be intercepted and dumped to >> disk) it can be fixed, but it doesn't change the fact that Apple now >> needs to deal with a broken DRM. I'm very surprised there hasn't been >> some form of triage yet - a temporary patch to spoil things for DVD >> Jon maybe - but then maybe that's their plan: to prevent major press >> spin, which so far hasn't really covered this in a crisis tone. > > Ahh, perhaps I'm missing something, but... > > Surely the simplest way to beat Apple's DRM is just to burn a CD using > iTunes or Toast? I can't tell the diff between such CDs and the > original ITMS tracks. Nor is there any significant diff between that > CD and tracks RIPed from it. There is a (slight) diff between ITMS > tracks and an original CD and some diff between tracks RIPed from an > original CD and those RIPed from a CD made from ITMS tracks, but that > may simply be an artifact of the diff between MP3 and MP4 RIPing. CDs > made from ITMS tracks using iTunes can and do play just fine on normal > CD players and on computers which don't have iTunes at all, much less > are 'authorised' ITMS machines.\ That's not beating the DRM, it's explicitly allowed. There's NO difference, you're right, between a PCM copy of a protected AAC track burnt to a CD. The difference comes when you re-encode that track - to an unprotected AAC or MP3, which is what people intending to distribute files online would do. If you can access the decrypted AAC directly, without having to reencode, then you maintain the fidelity of the track as bought. CD burning is explicitly allowed as part of the license to iTMS users. Apple has promoted that a lot. What isn't intended is a decrypted but pristine copy of the track being created from a protected file. Bottom line is that the DRM is flawed - whether it's an implementation question (yes) or cryptographic flaws (no, or at least not demonstrated) - in that someone has found a way to do something not intended by the DRM. That is the very essence of DRM - control - and if someone can bypass those controls to do something not allowed by the license, then it's by definition broken. Whether it's a major issue of consequence, or just a PR gaff, will depend on how Apple responds to it, and I'm quite surprised not to see any response yet. I guess my position is that if Apple is to play the DRM game - and they are - then they play under the same rules as everyone else. It's not consumers who will be demanding the fix - obviously! - it's the labels, and this kind of flaw (effective or not) certainly won't help Apple promote iTMS to paranoid labels, and without those labels iTMS can't grow. So no, I don't mind personally, as an iTMS consumer. I already backup all of my iTMS tracks to PCM audio so I have some insurance against unknowns in the future. I'd love to be able to backup decrypted AAC instead, as I'm not worried about AAC being unsupported in the future - just worried that at some point I may not be able to access the protected AAC I've paid so much for. But Apple and the labels don't provide this capability, and don't intend to, so if it's possible right now it's only through a flaw in the product. And I can imagine that if this affects Apple's relationship with Hollywood, then ultimately it could affect me as a heavy customer of iTMS. --R From shmit at kublai.com Sun Nov 30 15:42:14 2003 From: shmit at kublai.com (Brian Cully) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <16991658-22BF-11D8-B03E-000A958F180A@23x.net> References: <16991658-22BF-11D8-B03E-000A958F180A@23x.net> Message-ID: On 29-Nov-2003, at 17:55, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > I get over 10 hours from one charge on my $DEITY-knows-how-old > second-hand M8541 5GB iPod. It's in daily use: morning to night at > work, my office mate wants to hear my "music I've never heard of" > tunes. > > Should I treat every day as a gift to be treasured or should I just > keep pounding my poor podule to death in a drive-it-like-you-stole-it > manner? FWIW, all lithium ion batteries have the same expected life-span: 3 years from date of manufacture. Tangentially, all Li-ion batteries also have the same quick charge properties of the iPod. You can endeavor to keep your battery life better, longer, by keeping the battery cool, among other things. All you ever needed to know about your lithium ion battery can be found here: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm -bjc From shmit at kublai.com Sun Nov 30 16:02:05 2003 From: shmit at kublai.com (Brian Cully) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: www.ipodsdirtysecret.com In-Reply-To: <0E082C0A-230D-11D8-993C-000A95935598@kreme.com> References: <16991658-22BF-11D8-B03E-000A958F180A@23x.net> <0E082C0A-230D-11D8-993C-000A95935598@kreme.com> Message-ID: <7D29F6D1-2391-11D8-8852-003065BF11FA@kublai.com> On 30-Nov-2003, at 03:13, Lukreme wrote: > The best way to make sure the battery lasts is to pound it like you > are. the more frequently it is recharged with a partial charge, the > faster it seems to die. Yes, I know they claim that "memory" doesn't > apply to newer generation batteries, but that certainly hasn't been my > experience. > > Run it dry, recharge seems to work best for cellphones and ipods and > laptops. Lithium Ion batteries are /not/ meant for deep-cycle. That's one of the fastest ways to kill them. See the URL I posted earlier to this thread for more details. -bjc From pelorus at mac.com Sun Nov 30 16:43:35 2003 From: pelorus at mac.com (Matt) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: On 30 Nov 2003, at 23:28, Roger Howard wrote: > Bottom line is that the DRM is flawed - whether it's an implementation > question (yes) or cryptographic flaws (no, or at least not > demonstrated) - in that someone has found a way to do something not > intended by the DRM. That is the very essence of DRM - control - and > if someone can bypass those controls to do something not allowed by > the license, then it's by definition broken. Whether it's a major > issue of consequence, or just a PR gaff, will depend on how Apple > responds to it, and I'm quite surprised not to see any response yet. I'm evidently missing something central to the discussion then. If the resulting file from this persons efforts still needs an "authorised" computer in order to be played, I don't see how it's cracked or flawed. DRM, much like all rules, are made to be broken. Whether it's the breaking of a regime which controls the distribution of DVD media or whether it's the breaking of the DRM used in the first "fair deal" music store. DeCSS made someone a hero. Breaking FairPlay makes him an ass. From rogerhoward at mac.com Sun Nov 30 18:20:08 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: On Nov 30, 2003, at 4:24 PM, Matt wrote: > > On 30 Nov 2003, at 23:28, Roger Howard wrote: > >> Bottom line is that the DRM is flawed - whether it's an >> implementation question (yes) or cryptographic flaws (no, or at least >> not demonstrated) - in that someone has found a way to do something >> not intended by the DRM. That is the very essence of DRM - control - >> and if someone can bypass those controls to do something not allowed >> by the license, then it's by definition broken. Whether it's a major >> issue of consequence, or just a PR gaff, will depend on how Apple >> responds to it, and I'm quite surprised not to see any response yet. > > I'm evidently missing something central to the discussion then. > > If the resulting file from this persons efforts still needs an > "authorised" computer in order to be played, I don't see how it's > cracked or flawed. It doesn't. You must have missed something! It requires the original track to be authorized to the person doing the memory dump. Once you've recovered the decrypted AAC samples, reconstructed a valid file from it, you've got a clean AAC with no protection. > DRM, much like all rules, are made to be broken. Whether it's the > breaking of a regime which controls the distribution of DVD media or > whether it's the breaking of the DRM used in the first "fair deal" > music store. Agreed. I've tried to be clear, I'm not a DRM fanatic. I don't like DRM personally, it's distrustful and risky (which is why I archive my iTMS tracks as WAV files just in case). But at this point it seems a necessary evil - if what we want is big-label music on our Macs. In that case, I'd rather FairPlay be seen as viable, and therefore iTMS as viable, so I can continue to enjoy iTMS. In the end, I can always go back to buying CDs (I just bought my first one for the year, and it's November!) and avoid it all, so it's not the end of the world either way. But I do want to see iTMS a success, because I find it worth the trade-offs in general... I don't care about album art, I don't like going shopping, and I'd rather have less plastic cluttering my apartment. In exchange, I'm willing to deal with the minor restrictions of the tracks. I guess I'm just arguing that for us to keep our DRM-lite (as some call it, in comparison with the often more-restrictive licenses at other online music sources), it needs to be seen as viable to the content providers. When there's a high-profile crack, by a kid who's already seen as having made trouble for the DVD industry, it needs some positive spin, and some kind of reaction. > DeCSS made someone a hero. Breaking FairPlay makes him an ass. Hey, I don't think he's an ass... sorry if I came off that way. I'm not blaming him for anything... it's the old invention vs discovery thing. He *discovered* a hole, he didn't dig it. It's up to Apple to fill the hole in. I admire the kid, though I have to wonder what the hell he was thinking in his release strategy - I understand it was on the eve (or close to) the beginning of a new trial for the now-ancient DeCSS. For his own sake, I wonder what the hell he was thinking... I know with DeCSS he linked it to wanting to be able to playback legitimately owned DVDs on his Linux box; if this FairPlay incident bites him, he might have a much harder time making that argument work this time (mainly because you cannot purchase the tracks WITHOUT already having a system spec'ed to play them back). -R From rogerhoward at mac.com Sun Nov 30 19:44:02 2003 From: rogerhoward at mac.com (Roger Howard) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: <76D7F3C2-23B0-11D8-8507-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Ok, now that I've apparently burned bridges with one person over this stupid (and misnamed) thread I'll leave it back to where I started: DRM is about setting rules for how content is accessed; when content is accessed in ways that violate those rules then the DRM is flawed at least in that simple way. This creates a perception that the platform (iTMS, FairPlay) is prone and not competitive, and could color the growth/disposition of the music download market away from Apple. Whether it's an implementation problem or a cryptographic weakness, there's a clever hack which now exists (and will likely improve), and for Apple to promote iTMS to its content partners I think they'll have to address it, so we (as consumers) can continue to see the iTMS catalog grow. I don't have a political interest in preserving DRM - I'd rather it not exist at all - but as a practical matter I know that if it's not iTMS I won't likely be buying any music online. Pretending the hack doesn't exist, or doesn't matter, isn't a great option for Apple (IMHO). -R From chad at objectwerks.com Sun Nov 30 20:21:01 2003 From: chad at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh -- ObjectWerks Inc.) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:23:37 2005 Subject: WMP 9 out In-Reply-To: References: <8FD78CD1-11C4-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <85D03B42-11C6-11D8-A6D0-000A95A50218@mac.com> <3628BFDE-121B-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <51D6DECC-1229-11D8-A817-000A95935598@kreme.com> <0251D06C-1230-11D8-B3BC-0003938C8B26@mac.com> Message-ID: It kind of is too bad about DVD-Jon since he is "attacking" something we care about. On an absolutely objective scale I applaud his efforrts, as I find DRM to be an attack on the fair-use rights. However, since he is attacking Apple and iTunes, I am mad and not at all pleased, as it could cause problems for a company which I support and care about (because they produce the products I use and like)... It is much easier to applaud the DRM attacks on people like Microsoft, who are the "evil empire" and all that. There is a difference though, as well. Apple uses DRM because they have to in order to make a deal with the label-demons. MS uses and supports DRM because they want to control everyones use of all digital media and use of their computers and get paid every time you do it... Back to WMP9 Does it really suck as badly as it seems when I try and watch a stream? I was trying to watch a stream of a movie trailer from Korea of a movie (called "Singles") I saw (watched it without headphones, as I don't speak Korean, and just read the subtitles :-) on the plane when we went to Japan (via Korea) in September. I set the WMP9 player to "cache" 99 seconds , which seems the max (and I also tried things like 20, 35, etc). It is a high bit rate trailer (around 300kbps) and being broadcast from Korea the bandwidth seems to not allow a constant stream (my cable modem can support the 300kbps but maybe the pipe from Korea to the US can't). So I set a high cache value so that it would spend a few minutes downloading and then play it straight through. No dice, it plays about 7 seconds worth and then stops to buffer more. It never seems to cache very much, cannot keep up with itself, and does not keep an overall cache so that I can rewind and play it again after the 5 minutes of waiting for it to play 7 seconds, stop, etc. The QT streaming of trailers that I have seen has done much better at caching, allows you to rewind etc. Luckily I found another site (looked like one of the southeast asian languages with the curly script) that had WMP files to download for the trailers so I could actually watch it... Chad