From robertcerny at mac.com Thu Jun 1 09:33:27 2006 From: robertcerny at mac.com (Robert Cerny) Date: Thu Jun 1 09:33:39 2006 Subject: degraded raid Message-ID: <26FA3D40-1DA7-47A7-A38D-849EC6D3AFEC@mac.com> Hi folks, I have an XServe g4, two drives are mirrored. The RAID is degraded right now, so I reformatted the damaged drive and want to add it back to the set. However, when I start DiskUtility, I can't add it to the set - the RAID is still dimmed and there is a small lock. How can I unlock it? Thanks Robert From macosx at gamesforone.com Thu Jun 1 09:47:39 2006 From: macosx at gamesforone.com (Michael McCulloch) Date: Thu Jun 1 09:44:03 2006 Subject: Help Viewer startup freezes entire Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No responses so far... I've tried all the suggestions short of permission repairs detailed at: http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/helpviewer.html including removing and reinstalling HelpViewer from the Tiger disk. Still no dice. The console shows the HelpViewer hangs the entire Mac literally for 2 to 3 minutes on the line: 2006-06-01 08:33:32.654 Help Viewer[258] www.info.apple.com reachability: -r----- So obviously it is trying to find something at Apple. My Internet connection works fine otherwise with every other app. Can someone explain how one help viewing app can hang an entire modern OS? --- Michael On May 31, 2006, at 3:26 PM, Michael McCulloch wrote: > I have OS X 10.4.6 installed on a G4 PowerMac. Help Viewer version > is 3.0.0 (144.1). > > When starting Help Viewer, the window is initially blank and then > comes the spinning cursor. Then my *entire Mac* freezes up. The > Finder won't respond and even Terminal won't display the results of > a ps command. The GUI simply won't respond to anything. > > This continues for about 2 minutes or more, and then the Help is > displayed. I have deleted the appropriate ~/Library/Cache and / > Preferences files multiple times that are contained in my home > folder. It makes no difference. > > Are there some "Global" preferences stored somewhere that could be > causing this? Frankly, the Mac is almost non-useable as a test > machine for app development when the Help Viewer locks up like this. > > --- > Michael McCulloch > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin > > From daniel at highdesertchurch.com Thu Jun 1 12:02:33 2006 From: daniel at highdesertchurch.com (Daniel Hazelbaker) Date: Thu Jun 1 12:03:05 2006 Subject: Lost CPU Performance after SW Update? [SOLVED] In-Reply-To: References: <9627D9E9-FD9C-42F3-BD64-FF7261027A7D@highdesertchurch.com> <8FF080E2-32AE-44BA-BBB1-60C80596BEA8@highdesertchurch.com> Message-ID: <9953B3B6-530F-40E0-8A98-8CAC77191C10@highdesertchurch.com> Okay, that traced down my problem. Not sure what the actual problem was, but apparently nmbd (windows file sharing) was having problems. I don't know what because there was nothing in the logs. But it was spawning and dieing faster then I could see in either top or the Activity Monitor. As I said, I don't know what the problem was because I turned off windows file sharing, then turned it back on and everything is fine. Even though I have rebooted and cold-booted many times it apparently needed to be turned off and back on. Strange! Thanks for the tips on Shark. Never knew you could do a "whole system" profile. Daniel On May 31, 2006, at 6:14 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > On 5/31/06, Daniel Hazelbaker wrote: >> Yes, I have the CHUD tools in already. Both are enabled. > > I suggest firing up Shark and doing a "Time Profile" of the whole > system ("Everything") to see if you can find what exactly appears to > be consuming one CPUs worth of processing. > > -Shawn > From nigel at cofa.unsw.edu.au Thu Jun 1 14:04:35 2006 From: nigel at cofa.unsw.edu.au (Nigel Kersten) Date: Thu Jun 1 14:04:46 2006 Subject: Lost CPU Performance after SW Update? [SOLVED] In-Reply-To: <9953B3B6-530F-40E0-8A98-8CAC77191C10@highdesertchurch.com> References: <9627D9E9-FD9C-42F3-BD64-FF7261027A7D@highdesertchurch.com> <8FF080E2-32AE-44BA-BBB1-60C80596BEA8@highdesertchurch.com> <9953B3B6-530F-40E0-8A98-8CAC77191C10@highdesertchurch.com> Message-ID: <2026B386-3B9C-4BE8-9BA5-FF3267DAD4C5@cofa.unsw.edu.au> On 02/06/2006, at 5:02 AM, Daniel Hazelbaker wrote: > Okay, that traced down my problem. Not sure what the actual > problem was, but apparently nmbd (windows file sharing) was having > problems. I don't know what because there was nothing in the > logs. But it was spawning and dieing faster then I could see in > either top or the Activity Monitor. As I said, I don't know what > the problem was because I turned off windows file sharing, then > turned it back on and everything is fine. Even though I have > rebooted and cold-booted many times it apparently needed to be > turned off and back on. Strange! I've seen this twice now on Intel macs, and changing smb.conf so that the machine would never become a master browser seems to have resolved it as far as I can tell. -- Nigel Kersten [Senior Technical Officer] College of Fine Arts, University of NSW, Australia. CRICOS Provider Code: 00098G From mah at jump-ing.de Thu Jun 1 14:11:45 2006 From: mah at jump-ing.de (Markus Hitter) Date: Thu Jun 1 14:12:15 2006 Subject: Help Viewer startup freezes entire Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16507F61-67CA-4F6D-BECB-5C81BB6B6FD6@jump-ing.de> Am 01.06.2006 um 18:47 schrieb Michael McCulloch: > Can someone explain how one help viewing app can hang an entire > modern OS? Starting with Tiger, I've seen similar things a few times myself. It wasn't tied to HelpViewer, however. All of a sudden, in midst of doing some work, the iBook freezes. The mouse pointer continues to move, but other than that, everything stops. No keyboard input is accepted, windows can't be moved or switched and IIRC, downloads just hang. I had to hard shut down the iBook about five times since installing Tiger while I never had to do so with Mac OS X 10.1, 10.2 or 10.3. Even as a fairly experienced administrator and programmer, I can't think of a way of how to debug these situations. In one occasion, pulling the Ethernet plug helped, but next time it didn't. Waiting an hour or two doesn't help either. There was a similar experience with an Xserve posted on this list about a week ago, so we are not alone, Michael :-} Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ From apple at tisys.org Thu Jun 1 14:22:00 2006 From: apple at tisys.org (Nils Holland) Date: Thu Jun 1 14:22:11 2006 Subject: Lost CPU Performance after SW Update? [SOLVED] In-Reply-To: <9953B3B6-530F-40E0-8A98-8CAC77191C10@highdesertchurch.com> References: <9627D9E9-FD9C-42F3-BD64-FF7261027A7D@highdesertchurch.com> <8FF080E2-32AE-44BA-BBB1-60C80596BEA8@highdesertchurch.com> <9953B3B6-530F-40E0-8A98-8CAC77191C10@highdesertchurch.com> Message-ID: <492A41C9-67E0-4F05-B9A7-9863E4314ED0@tisys.org> Funny, the same issue made me reinstall my OS last weekend, only to find out that the problem persisted. Like you said, I noticed that nmbd processes were spawned and quitted faster than I could see in Activity Monitor. I still don't know what caused the problem, but I've turned off Windows Sharing for now since I don't really need it anyway. I guess I'll turn it back on just for testing purposes. Probably the problem has magically disappeared for me as well. ;-) Greetings, Nils On Jun 1, 2006, at 21:02 , Daniel Hazelbaker wrote: > Okay, that traced down my problem. Not sure what the actual > problem was, but apparently nmbd (windows file sharing) was having > problems. I don't know what because there was nothing in the > logs. But it was spawning and dieing faster then I could see in > either top or the Activity Monitor. As I said, I don't know what > the problem was because I turned off windows file sharing, then > turned it back on and everything is fine. Even though I have > rebooted and cold-booted many times it apparently needed to be > turned off and back on. Strange! > > Thanks for the tips on Shark. Never knew you could do a "whole > system" profile. > > Daniel > > On May 31, 2006, at 6:14 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: > >> On 5/31/06, Daniel Hazelbaker wrote: >>> Yes, I have the CHUD tools in already. Both are enabled. >> >> I suggest firing up Shark and doing a "Time Profile" of the whole >> system ("Everything") to see if you can find what exactly appears to >> be consuming one CPUs worth of processing. >> >> -Shawn >> > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Thu Jun 1 16:04:58 2006 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (Roland Torres) Date: Thu Jun 1 16:05:03 2006 Subject: Help Viewer startup freezes entire Mac In-Reply-To: <16507F61-67CA-4F6D-BECB-5C81BB6B6FD6@jump-ing.de> References: <16507F61-67CA-4F6D-BECB-5C81BB6B6FD6@jump-ing.de> Message-ID: Am 01.06.2006 um 18:47 schrieb Michael McCulloch: > Can someone explain how one help viewing app can hang an entire > modern OS? This syndrome does seem more prevalent with Tiger, where one app can seemingly hang the entire OS. I've had a number of cases where I couldn't "wake" my system enough to arouse the screen saver to present me with a login panel. The mouse cursor was fine, I just never got a panel. Even ssh'ing in didn't work; it would stall forever waiting for the password prompt. Nothing to do but power down. Another single point of failure is with networked or mounted filesystems in the Finder. Even a wayward external drive or failed CD burn is enough to cause a system-wide hang, at times. Maybe Leopard rethinks a few of these critical internal interdependent data pathways? Perhaps it could offer automatic resource mutex/deadlock resolution, e.g., after a sufficient timeout period, fail the acquisition attempt and allow one initiator or the other to retry? Not perfect, I know, but it would be better than pulling the plug! Roland From listst at woomeranet.com.au Thu Jun 1 17:51:25 2006 From: listst at woomeranet.com.au (Thomas) Date: Thu Jun 1 17:58:12 2006 Subject: Printer not sharing for one computer Message-ID: <60BF35C6-98BD-405A-8ED3-CFDFD3BA0FAB@woomeranet.com.au> I have an Epson CX6500 printer connected to an iMac via USB, and shared to my subnet using the Sharing panel. That works fine for two computers, where you can see "Shared Printers" in the Printer: popup when you go to print a page, and you can select this shared printer. However, in one G4 on the same subnet, even with a clean install of 10.4.6, the "Shared Printers" option doesn't appear in the popup. It goes straight from the selected printer to "Add Printer..." and of course that's no use. I've even tried installing the latest drivers for the CX6500, but it makes no difference. Any ideas? Regards Thomas From scott_ribe at killerbytes.com Fri Jun 2 07:23:12 2006 From: scott_ribe at killerbytes.com (Scott Ribe) Date: Fri Jun 2 07:23:23 2006 Subject: Help Viewer startup freezes entire Mac In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > This syndrome does seem more prevalent with Tiger Yes, I've seen it too a few times... -- Scott Ribe scott_ribe@killerbytes.com http://www.killerbytes.com/ (303) 722-0567 voice From gkreme at gmail.com Fri Jun 2 19:45:06 2006 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Fri Jun 2 19:45:10 2006 Subject: Lost CPU Performance after SW Update? [SOLVED] In-Reply-To: <492A41C9-67E0-4F05-B9A7-9863E4314ED0@tisys.org> References: <9627D9E9-FD9C-42F3-BD64-FF7261027A7D@highdesertchurch.com> <8FF080E2-32AE-44BA-BBB1-60C80596BEA8@highdesertchurch.com> <9953B3B6-530F-40E0-8A98-8CAC77191C10@highdesertchurch.com> <492A41C9-67E0-4F05-B9A7-9863E4314ED0@tisys.org> Message-ID: [Un-TOFU] On 01 Jun 2006, at 15:22 , Nils Holland wrote: > On Jun 1, 2006, at 21:02 , Daniel Hazelbaker wrote: >>> On May 31, 2006, at 6:14 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: >>>> On 5/31/06, Daniel Hazelbaker wrote: >>>>> Yes, I have the CHUD tools in already. Both are enabled. >>>> >>>> I suggest firing up Shark and doing a "Time Profile" of the >>>> whole system > >> Not sure what the actual problem was, but apparently nmbd (windows >> file sharing) was having problems. I don't know what because >> there was nothing in the logs. But it was spawning and dieing >> faster then I could see in either top or the Activity Monitor. > I've turned off Windows Sharing for now since I don't really need > it anyway. I guess I'll turn it back on just for testing purposes. > Probably the problem has magically disappeared for me as well. ;-) Any idea what caused this? I use Windows File sharing a lot (my mini mounts a total of 1TB of disk space using SMB because I can't get anything to work properly if I use 'normal' OS X friendly network mounts (ie, "My Network" as opposed to "MSHOME"). As it is, iTunes only sorta works with SMB, but it doesn't work at all otherwise, so I'm up. I guess. Anyway, I haven't had this problem. Yet. But I would very much like to avoid having it as the majority of my storage is accessed only via SMB. My smb.conf looks like this: [Music] path = /Volumes/Orpheus/ read only = No inherit permissions = Yes guest ok = No [Unsorted] path = /Volumes/Astoria/Unsorted read only = No inherit permissions = Yes guest ok = No [Video1] path = /Volumes/Cerebus/Video1 read only = No inherit permissions = Yes guest ok = No [iVideo] path = /Volumes/Morpheus/Internet/Video read only = No inherit permissions = Yes guest ok = No [Misc] path = /Volumes/Julius/ read only = No inherit permissions = Yes guest ok = No these SMB mounts are set to open on the mini on login (they are Login items) -- Secondly, the Earth's a Libra From norman at astro.gla.ac.uk Sun Jun 4 08:19:45 2006 From: norman at astro.gla.ac.uk (Norman Gray) Date: Sun Jun 4 08:20:41 2006 Subject: How does FileVault _really_ work? Message-ID: Greetings, Can anyone point me towards some document describing how FileVault works in some detail, in 10.4? Searching on the web produces little detail, there's nothing at all on discussions.apple.com, and I can't find any details searching for technotes. The 'Mac OS X Server Command-Line Administration' guide is apparently silent on the matter. It's easy to find rather vague accounts of its operation: when FileVault is on, the contents of your home directory is in a sparseimage in your home directory, encrypted with your login password; when you log on, the image is automagically decrypted, and mounted on top of your home directory. If you forget your login password, that's OK, because you can use the FileVault Master Password, which is automagically also able to decrypt the image. Files /Library/Keychains/FileVaultMaster.* are magically involved here, and the master password can be removed by removing these files. It's those various `magicallys' that worry me. I naturally do adequately regular home directory backups to an unencrypted volume, and the master password is naturally written down somewhere secure, but I'd still like to verify that the password I've written is indeed correct, and I don't know how to do that. Obvious things like 'hdiutil attach /path/to/home/user.sparseimage - stdinpass' don't work if I provide the master password, only if I provide the login password. So the questions I have are: * Looking in the FileVaultMaster.keychain, I see a certificate and a `master password key'. What do these do? Does the RSA key -- which is what's presumably protected by the FileVault master password -- act as an escrow key for the AES disk image? * Given a user.sparseimage, how do I mount it? As I say, 'hdiutil attach' doesn't work as I guessed, and even double-clicking on it (ie, using 'open'), while it prompts me for a password, will only accept the login password, and not the master password (that sort of makes sense if that password is protecting the RSA key, but with this much magic around, I rather wondered if that might magically just work). * I've seen remarks to the effect that `if you give the wrong login password three times, you'll be prompted for the master password'. Will the account be locked in this case? If so, this isn't a safe way to verify I've got the right master password written down. * If the FileVaultMaster keychain is deleted, what happens? If I'm correct about the RSA key being an escrow back door into the disk image, then when that's gone, so is the safety net, and creating a new master password won't help. Is that correct? * ... and so on. I do have an answer to one small part of this. The master password is the password protecting the FileVaultMaster keychain. Unlocking it requires the master password, so that provides a check that it is noted down correctly. But does the RSA key inside that keychain have a separate password? Interestingly, _changing_ the master password using the SystemPreferences panel doesn't appear to take effect immediately. After I changed it, the _previous_ password was required to unlock the keychain. After I'd logged out and logged in again (or is it a timed thing?), the new password unlocked the keychain. There's possibly more here than can be addressed in a list posting. If someone can point me to an external reference, I'll try to summarise later. Best wishes, Norman -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Norman Gray / http://nxg.me.uk eurovotech.org / University of Leicester, UK From norman at astro.gla.ac.uk Sun Jun 4 08:35:27 2006 From: norman at astro.gla.ac.uk (Norman Gray) Date: Sun Jun 4 08:35:35 2006 Subject: Simple netbooting -- summary In-Reply-To: <13EDE642-7D60-4CF4-88BA-B26260411078@astro.gla.ac.uk> References: <3A949045-38D6-4879-A5FD-E9228A7B47E4@astro.gla.ac.uk> <13EDE642-7D60-4CF4-88BA-B26260411078@astro.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: [A clarification/update, a propos the May thread which finished with ...] On 2006 May 18 , at 18.47, Norman Gray wrote: >> Can anyone point me towards a recipe for booting an oldish iMac >> from a separate machine? > 2. Another is to boot the laptop in FireWire target disk mode, > having previously inserted the DVD. Then boot the iMac, holding > down the Option key to select the boot volume, and continue the > boot from the laptop DVD drive. Then install onto the appropriate > iMac partition. I had thought this was not possible, because I'd > read a statement to the contrary on article.html?artnum=58583> (which said that target disk mode would > only mount the master ATA drive). Since this page turns out to be > six years old (!), I shouldn't be surprised that this is no longer > true: target disk mode appears to mount (and share) everything > mountable. This specific method didn't work in fact, because the laptop I was using on that occasion was old enough (a white G3 iBook) that FireWire target disk mode did indeed fail to mount the DVD drive. It worked OK with a G4 PowerBook. So the advice in the referenced article has become wrong, but recently enough that this method will fail to work for semi-current hardware. Just to let you (and Google) know... Norman -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Norman Gray / http://nxg.me.uk eurovotech.org / University of Leicester, UK From gkreme at gmail.com Sun Jun 4 09:10:13 2006 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Sun Jun 4 09:10:25 2006 Subject: How does FileVault _really_ work? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <06AF3D4D-31C4-456C-A56D-CD66DE89CFBC@gmail.com> On 04 Jun 2006, at 09:19 , Norman Gray wrote: > * If the FileVaultMaster keychain is deleted, what happens? If I'm > correct about the RSA key being an escrow back door into the disk > image, then when that's gone, so is the safety net, and creating a > new master password won't help. Is that correct? That's certainly my understanding. As for testing the master password, try mounting the image as another user. When you mount the image as yourself, it is looking in YOUR keychain, and is likely asking for your keychain password. -- "Eureka," he said. "Going to have a bath then?" From cthacker at cls.ucsf.edu Tue Jun 6 09:07:30 2006 From: cthacker at cls.ucsf.edu (chris thacker) Date: Tue Jun 6 10:07:34 2006 Subject: meetingmaker host change Message-ID: <4F4DE03F-194F-4956-9083-BB4286A3FEBF@cls.ucsf.edu> For those of you who administer MeetingMaker, has anyone found a solution for making a mass change to all clients for the client's MeetingMaker server info? The user preference file only seems to store the user name and connection type (tcp or ssl) but not the host address. Where is the host info stored? I've tried various scans and haven't been able to find it. MeetingMaker version 7.5 by the way. Thanks, Chris ____________ Chris Thacker Campus Life Services - Information Systems University of California at San Francisco [help desk] 415 502-5511 [direct line] 415 514-3373 From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Tue Jun 6 11:32:54 2006 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (Roland Torres) Date: Tue Jun 6 11:33:01 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? Message-ID: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> We have a user that gets _a lot_ of spam emails, and even though he has deleted all his spam messages, they are all still stored in /var/ spool/imap, in fact 6.58GB worth so far this year. The problem is that it now takes Mail.app about 20 minutes to "disconnect" from the server every time he does a "Get Mail". I guess it's going through all the indexes, or perhaps it's updating the cache too, which is huge: -rw------- 1 cyrusima mail 15807416 Jun 6 11:34 cyrus.index -rw------- 1 cyrusima mail 812558136 Jun 6 11:34 cyrus.cache Is there a utility to prune old message files? Is it advisable to do so by hand? Can I just delete these index/cache files? Are they regenerated automatically? Thanks, Roland From cthacker at cls.ucsf.edu Tue Jun 6 10:35:17 2006 From: cthacker at cls.ucsf.edu (Chris Thacker) Date: Tue Jun 6 11:35:19 2006 Subject: meetingmaker host change In-Reply-To: <4F4DE03F-194F-4956-9083-BB4286A3FEBF@cls.ucsf.edu> References: <4F4DE03F-194F-4956-9083-BB4286A3FEBF@cls.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: found the solution: the "ON COM Parameters" file On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 09:07:30 -0700 chris thacker wrote: > >For those of you who administer MeetingMaker, has anyone >found a solution for making a mass change to all clients >for the client's MeetingMaker server info? The user >preference file only seems to store the user name and >connection type (tcp or ssl) but not the host address. > Where is the host info stored? I've tried various >scans and haven't been able to find it. > > MeetingMaker version 7.5 by the way. > > Thanks, > Chris > > ____________ > Chris Thacker > Campus Life Services - Information Systems > University of California at San Francisco > [help desk] 415 502-5511 > [direct line] 415 514-3373 > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin From shoop at iwiring.net Tue Jun 6 14:57:51 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Tue Jun 6 14:58:03 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? In-Reply-To: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: At 11:32 AM -0700 6/6/06, Roland Torres wrote: >We have a user that gets _a lot_ of spam emails, and even though he >has deleted all his spam messages, they are all still stored in >/var/spool/imap, in fact 6.58GB worth so far this year. If he has truely deleted them then they *aren't* in his mailboxes. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Tue Jun 6 15:27:36 2006 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (Roland Torres) Date: Tue Jun 6 15:27:43 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? In-Reply-To: References: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <866F77BD-2A13-4CCE-9871-B5ED81259A0B@autonomy.caltech.edu> On Jun 6, 2006, at 2:57 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > At 11:32 AM -0700 6/6/06, Roland Torres wrote: >> We have a user that gets _a lot_ of spam emails, and even though >> he has deleted all his spam messages, they are all still stored >> in /var/spool/imap, in fact 6.58GB worth so far this year. > > If he has truely deleted them then they *aren't* in his mailboxes. I know that they aren't in his local ~/Library/Mail mailboxes, but they do seem to be in /var/mail/spool. I was wondering about the ramifications of deleting the large cache and index files. Might it mess things up, or would it force a rebuild of both? Roland From daniel at highdesertchurch.com Tue Jun 6 15:55:42 2006 From: daniel at highdesertchurch.com (Daniel Hazelbaker) Date: Tue Jun 6 15:56:17 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? In-Reply-To: <866F77BD-2A13-4CCE-9871-B5ED81259A0B@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> <866F77BD-2A13-4CCE-9871-B5ED81259A0B@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: Try logging into his mail account with webmail and check all the mail boxes. He might be deleting them (moving them into trash) but never actually deleting them from the trash. We have a lot of users here that do that. They don't realize that the trash does not empty itself (unless set to do so) so they will have gigabytes of mail in their Trash. Daniel On Jun 6, 2006, at 3:27 PM, Roland Torres wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2006, at 2:57 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > >> At 11:32 AM -0700 6/6/06, Roland Torres wrote: >>> We have a user that gets _a lot_ of spam emails, and even though >>> he has deleted all his spam messages, they are all still stored >>> in /var/spool/imap, in fact 6.58GB worth so far this year. >> >> If he has truely deleted them then they *aren't* in his mailboxes. > > I know that they aren't in his local ~/Library/Mail mailboxes, but > they do seem to be in /var/mail/spool. I was wondering about the > ramifications of deleting the large cache and index files. Might it > mess things up, or would it force a rebuild of both? > > Roland > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin > From nigel at cofa.unsw.edu.au Tue Jun 6 16:59:56 2006 From: nigel at cofa.unsw.edu.au (Nigel Kersten) Date: Tue Jun 6 17:00:09 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? In-Reply-To: References: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> <866F77BD-2A13-4CCE-9871-B5ED81259A0B@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: On 07/06/2006, at 8:55 AM, Daniel Hazelbaker wrote: > Try logging into his mail account with webmail and check all the > mail boxes. He might be deleting them (moving them into trash) but > never actually deleting them from the trash. We have a lot of > users here that do that. They don't realize that the trash does > not empty itself (unless set to do so) so they will have gigabytes > of mail in their Trash. It more sounds to me like he isn't using Trash, and has instead marked the messages for deletion, but hasn't purged them? -- Nigel Kersten [Senior Technical Officer] College of Fine Arts, University of NSW, Australia. CRICOS Provider Code: 00098G From ort at bergersen.no Wed Jun 7 03:49:09 2006 From: ort at bergersen.no (Richard Taubo) Date: Wed Jun 7 03:50:37 2006 Subject: hdiutil and deleting existing files in image Message-ID: Hi! After creating a pretty big image file using hdiutil, I was hoping I could delete the contents of the image so I could write to it again, e.g: hdiutil attach $IMAGENAME -owners on rm -R /Volumes/$VOLUMENAME/* Where $IMAGENAME is the full path to the image, and $VOLUMENAME is the name of the mounted image. I am able to delete the contents of $VOLUMENAME, and the free space of the image increases somewhat. Still, most of the free space is not recovered. Is there a way to recover this space, or do I have to create the image from scratch again? I am using: OS X 10.4 Thanks for feeback! Best regards, Richard Taubo From jearle at gmail.com Wed Jun 7 05:49:21 2006 From: jearle at gmail.com (Jared Earle) Date: Wed Jun 7 05:49:26 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? In-Reply-To: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <5bbc0cd60606070549q401bd29fg460ee7344e3ab6a9@mail.gmail.com> On 6/6/06, Roland Torres wrote: > Can I just delete these index/cache files? Are they regenerated > automatically? At a guess, I'd say he's marked all the messages for deletion, which is the IMAP default. To actually delete them, however, you need to purge them. -- Jared Earle :: There is no SPORK jearle@gmail.com :: http://www.23x.net The Spodcast :: http://spodcast.org From daniel at highdesertchurch.com Wed Jun 7 10:28:01 2006 From: daniel at highdesertchurch.com (Daniel Hazelbaker) Date: Wed Jun 7 10:28:11 2006 Subject: ARD 3.0 - Sharing Serial Numbers Message-ID: <4C00F1E0-E9F2-4ACB-B63E-CD3391D10DE0@highdesertchurch.com> Greetings, I am wondering if somebody can verify a feature(?) in ARD 3.0 for me before I have to put together next year's budget. In ARD 2.x I can share a serial number between my desktop & laptop without worrying about it freaking out if another copy using the same serial # is running. Can anybody tell me if this is still the case with ARD 3.0? Daniel From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Wed Jun 7 10:36:22 2006 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (Roland Torres) Date: Wed Jun 7 10:36:28 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? In-Reply-To: <5bbc0cd60606070549q401bd29fg460ee7344e3ab6a9@mail.gmail.com> References: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> <5bbc0cd60606070549q401bd29fg460ee7344e3ab6a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F3D53B1-3A2D-4F85-B17D-83903D67079E@autonomy.caltech.edu> On Jun 7, 2006, at 5:49 AM, Jared Earle wrote: > On 6/6/06, Roland Torres wrote: >> Can I just delete these index/cache files? Are they regenerated >> automatically? > > At a guess, I'd say he's marked all the messages for deletion, which > is the IMAP default. To actually delete them, however, you need to > purge them. How does this affect the messages stored on the server? I found out that this user does erase junk and deleted messages, but that only affects his local copy. He _didn't_ have the "Remove copy from server" box checked in Mail prefs, so I hope doing that will clear out the 6.5GB of messages he has stored on the server, and reduce the sizes of the cache and index files. I'll give it a go... Roland From larkost at softhome.net Wed Jun 7 10:48:48 2006 From: larkost at softhome.net (Karl Kuehn) Date: Wed Jun 7 10:48:55 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? In-Reply-To: <4F3D53B1-3A2D-4F85-B17D-83903D67079E@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> <5bbc0cd60606070549q401bd29fg460ee7344e3ab6a9@mail.gmail.com> <4F3D53B1-3A2D-4F85-B17D-83903D67079E@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <3C58BC9B-D12D-4C8D-81CC-83BB80BF940D@softhome.net> On Jun 7, 2006, at 1:36 PM, Roland Torres wrote: > How does this affect the messages stored on the server? I found out > that this user does erase junk and deleted messages, but that only > affects his local copy. He _didn't_ have the "Remove copy from > server" box checked in Mail prefs, so I hope doing that will clear > out the 6.5GB of messages he has stored on the server, and reduce > the sizes of the cache and index files. Are we talking about a POP client or an IMAP client. "Remove copy from server" is a POP-only setting. And this whole conversation would make a lot of sense if he was using Mail.app as a POP client to get things from a server that also supports IMAP. When POP queues get that big everything goes nuts (the protocol was not designed with that size in mind). -- Karl Kuehn larkost@softhome.net From daniel at highdesertchurch.com Wed Jun 7 10:50:28 2006 From: daniel at highdesertchurch.com (Daniel Hazelbaker) Date: Wed Jun 7 10:50:40 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? In-Reply-To: <4F3D53B1-3A2D-4F85-B17D-83903D67079E@autonomy.caltech.edu> References: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> <5bbc0cd60606070549q401bd29fg460ee7344e3ab6a9@mail.gmail.com> <4F3D53B1-3A2D-4F85-B17D-83903D67079E@autonomy.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <362BE114-217A-43E7-96A6-4A5F25354E86@highdesertchurch.com> It sounds like he is using POP3 for his mail access. If that is the case you are probably a bit hosed. Checking that box now, in my experience, will not help the issue. What happens is the local Mail program marks the messages (either locally or remotely) that it has downloaded them and will never show you those same messages again, or even give you the ability to delete them off of the server. What you will probably need to do (and I would recommend anyway) is to setup his account as IMAP (we've done the POP3->IMAP move 30 times this year for people and it is pretty quick), that will then show you all the messages on the server, and let you mark them for deletion and actually delete them. Again, if you have webmail setup you can verify this by logging in (since it uses IMAP) and you will probably see messages dating back years that you thought were deleted. Daniel On Jun 7, 2006, at 10:36 AM, Roland Torres wrote: > > On Jun 7, 2006, at 5:49 AM, Jared Earle wrote: > >> On 6/6/06, Roland Torres wrote: >>> Can I just delete these index/cache files? Are they regenerated >>> automatically? >> >> At a guess, I'd say he's marked all the messages for deletion, which >> is the IMAP default. To actually delete them, however, you need to >> purge them. > > How does this affect the messages stored on the server? I found out > that this user does erase junk and deleted messages, but that only > affects his local copy. He _didn't_ have the "Remove copy from > server" box checked in Mail prefs, so I hope doing that will clear > out the 6.5GB of messages he has stored on the server, and reduce > the sizes of the cache and index files. > > I'll give it a go... > Roland > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin > From gkreme at gmail.com Wed Jun 7 10:51:38 2006 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Wed Jun 7 10:51:42 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? In-Reply-To: <3C58BC9B-D12D-4C8D-81CC-83BB80BF940D@softhome.net> References: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> <5bbc0cd60606070549q401bd29fg460ee7344e3ab6a9@mail.gmail.com> <4F3D53B1-3A2D-4F85-B17D-83903D67079E@autonomy.caltech.edu> <3C58BC9B-D12D-4C8D-81CC-83BB80BF940D@softhome.net> Message-ID: <862C292E-EF64-4BA4-93F0-927CFBBC1A15@gmail.com> On 07 Jun 2006, at 11:48 , Karl Kuehn wrote: > On Jun 7, 2006, at 1:36 PM, Roland Torres wrote: >> How does this affect the messages stored on the server? I found >> out that this user does erase junk and deleted messages, but that >> only affects his local copy. He _didn't_ have the "Remove copy >> from server" box checked in Mail prefs, so I hope doing that will >> clear out the 6.5GB of messages he has stored on the server, and >> reduce the sizes of the cache and index files. > > Are we talking about a POP client or an IMAP client. "Remove copy > from server" is a POP-only setting. And this whole conversation > would make a lot of sense if he was using Mail.app as a POP client > to get things from a server that also supports IMAP. When POP > queues get that big everything goes nuts (the protocol was not > designed with that size in mind). Or even 1/100th that size in mind. POP starts breaking down very quickly when mailboxes get much over a mag or two. -- I can't die, I haven't seen The Jolson Story - Jetboy From shoop at iwiring.net Wed Jun 7 11:21:48 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Wed Jun 7 11:22:22 2006 Subject: hdiutil and deleting existing files in image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:49 PM +0200 6/7/06, Richard Taubo wrote: >Hi! > >After creating a pretty big image file using hdiutil, I was hoping I >could delete the contents of the image so I could write to it again, >e.g: > >hdiutil attach $IMAGENAME -owners on >rm -R /Volumes/$VOLUMENAME/* > >Where $IMAGENAME is the full path to the image, and $VOLUMENAME is >the name of the mounted image. >I am able to delete the contents of $VOLUMENAME, and the free space >of the image increases somewhat. >Still, most of the free space is not recovered. > >Is there a way to recover this space, or do I have to create the >image from scratch again? >I am using: OS X 10.4 What type of disk image did you create and how exactly did you go about creating it? -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Wed Jun 7 12:40:58 2006 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (Roland Torres) Date: Wed Jun 7 12:41:04 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? In-Reply-To: <362BE114-217A-43E7-96A6-4A5F25354E86@highdesertchurch.com> References: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> <5bbc0cd60606070549q401bd29fg460ee7344e3ab6a9@mail.gmail.com> <4F3D53B1-3A2D-4F85-B17D-83903D67079E@autonomy.caltech.edu> <362BE114-217A-43E7-96A6-4A5F25354E86@highdesertchurch.com> Message-ID: On Jun 7, 2006, at 10:50 AM, Daniel Hazelbaker wrote: > What you will probably need to do (and I would recommend anyway) is > to setup his account as IMAP (we've done the POP3->IMAP move 30 > times this year for people and it is pretty quick), that will then > show you all the messages on the server, and let you mark them for > deletion and actually delete them. Again, if you have webmail > setup you can verify this by logging in (since it uses IMAP) and > you will probably see messages dating back years that you thought > were deleted. Yes, the mail accounts here all use POP3. What is involved in the switch to IMAP? Do we need to delete the POP3 email account, and then recreate it as an IMAP account, or is there a conversion process involved? This sounds very promising. Roland From janos.lobb at yale.edu Wed Jun 7 13:13:22 2006 From: janos.lobb at yale.edu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=E1nos?=) Date: Wed Jun 7 13:13:33 2006 Subject: routing question Message-ID: <59DCB6FE-92D7-4578-A757-EA7DB942326C@yale.edu> Hi, I have two machines connected to the same switch. One of them is bml0031, the other one is bml0042. When I look traceroute from these two machines I see this: bml0042:~ janos$ traceroute morrow1.yalepath.org traceroute to morrow1.yalepath.org (10.48.106.45), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 10.84.2.254 (10.84.2.254) 1.189 ms 0.326 ms 0.282 ms 2 10.32.1.33 (10.32.1.33) 0.353 ms 0.476 ms 0.383 ms 3 10.32.1.82 (10.32.1.82) 0.456 ms 0.543 ms 0.389 ms 4 morrow1 (10.48.106.45) 0.384 ms 0.370 ms 0.337 ms bml0031:~ apple$ traceroute morrow1 traceroute to morrow1.yalepath.org (10.48.106.45), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 10.84.2.254 (10.84.2.254) 1.934 ms 0.647 ms 0.711 ms 2 10.32.1.29 (10.32.1.29) 0.436 ms 0.561 ms 0.553 ms 3 10.32.1.78 (10.32.1.78) 0.563 ms 0.573 ms 0.564 ms 4 morrow1 (10.48.106.45) 0.579 ms 0.534 ms 0.547 ms After the default gateway - 10.84.2.254 - the trace goes on different routes. These routes are always the same, that is it is not randomly selected. Two questions: If it is the same switch and same default gateway, why there are different routes and how are those selected ? /It is Cisco hardware/ Is it possible to tell the bml0042 to use the same route as bml0031 is using ? Thanks ahead, J?nos ------------------------------------------------- clear perl code is better than unclear awk code; but NOTHING comes close to unclear perl code http://www.faqs.org/faqs/computer-lang/awk/faq/ From andrewo at liveworld.com Wed Jun 7 13:27:54 2006 From: andrewo at liveworld.com (Andrew Oliver) Date: Wed Jun 7 13:30:28 2006 Subject: routing question In-Reply-To: <59DCB6FE-92D7-4578-A757-EA7DB942326C@yale.edu> References: <59DCB6FE-92D7-4578-A757-EA7DB942326C@yale.edu> Message-ID: <60A66597-063C-4F04-9FDD-741957CC160D@liveworld.com> The problem (if it's a problem) is not with your server, it's with your router. All the Mac (or any host on the network) will do is send the traffic to the designated router. What that router does with it is beyond the Mac's control. What I'm guessing is that the router at 10.84.2.254 has multiple paths to morrow1 and each of those routes has an equal cost/weight. Additionally the router is set to load-balance its connections. Typically in this situation where there are multiple equal cost paths to the same destination, the router uses a hash to decide which route to take. The hash is commonly based on the IP address or MAC address of the source and/or destination. Basically what happens is can be thought of as: "If the source IP address|Mac address is even use path#1, if it's odd use path2" (over- simplified) That's why the two different machines take different paths. The solution is to change the weights on the router to prefer one path over the other, but there are other implications to doing that. This is fairly standard routing stuff, though, so whoever manages your router should be familiar with the concept of path weighting. Andrew :) On Jun 7, 2006, at 1:13 PM, J?nos wrote: > Hi, > > I have two machines connected to the same switch. One of them is > bml0031, the other one is bml0042. When I look traceroute from > these two machines I see this: > > bml0042:~ janos$ traceroute morrow1.yalepath.org > traceroute to morrow1.yalepath.org (10.48.106.45), 64 hops max, 40 > byte packets > 1 10.84.2.254 (10.84.2.254) 1.189 ms 0.326 ms 0.282 ms > 2 10.32.1.33 (10.32.1.33) 0.353 ms 0.476 ms 0.383 ms > 3 10.32.1.82 (10.32.1.82) 0.456 ms 0.543 ms 0.389 ms > 4 morrow1 (10.48.106.45) 0.384 ms 0.370 ms 0.337 ms > > bml0031:~ apple$ traceroute morrow1 > traceroute to morrow1.yalepath.org (10.48.106.45), 30 hops max, 40 > byte packets > 1 10.84.2.254 (10.84.2.254) 1.934 ms 0.647 ms 0.711 ms > 2 10.32.1.29 (10.32.1.29) 0.436 ms 0.561 ms 0.553 ms > 3 10.32.1.78 (10.32.1.78) 0.563 ms 0.573 ms 0.564 ms > 4 morrow1 (10.48.106.45) 0.579 ms 0.534 ms 0.547 ms > > After the default gateway - 10.84.2.254 - the trace goes on > different routes. These routes are always the same, that is it is > not randomly selected. > > Two questions: > > If it is the same switch and same default gateway, why there are > different routes and how are those selected ? /It is Cisco hardware/ > > Is it possible to tell the bml0042 to use the same route as bml0031 > is using ? > > Thanks ahead, > > J?nos > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > clear perl code is better than unclear awk code; but NOTHING comes > close to unclear perl code > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/computer-lang/awk/faq/ > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin From daniel at highdesertchurch.com Wed Jun 7 13:41:33 2006 From: daniel at highdesertchurch.com (Daniel Hazelbaker) Date: Wed Jun 7 13:41:44 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? In-Reply-To: References: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> <5bbc0cd60606070549q401bd29fg460ee7344e3ab6a9@mail.gmail.com> <4F3D53B1-3A2D-4F85-B17D-83903D67079E@autonomy.caltech.edu> <362BE114-217A-43E7-96A6-4A5F25354E86@highdesertchurch.com> Message-ID: <47C8FE5D-D272-46A8-923D-E4C3D7DB1A7B@highdesertchurch.com> No, you don't need to create any new email accounts or anything. Your mail server will (should if you are using something very old or non-standard) support POP3 and IMAP on the same account. All you need to do is setup your mail client to talk to the mail server on IMAP as well (create a second access account) and move all the messages over. I'll give you a summary of what we did here. :) Most users (at least in our company) do not have more than 1 or 2 mail folders, so the process went very quickly for them. 1. Disable the mail retrieval for the POP3 account (usually called something like "automatically get mail for this account"). This is important, otherwise you will duplicate all your e-mail. 2. Setup a second account in Mail (or Entourage, whichever you use). Use the same settings as the POP3 account, except it uses IMAP instead of POP3. Same username, e-mail address, server, etc. It will initially show very little, if anything, in its folders. 3. Copy all the mail from the Inbox, Sent, Trash, Drafts, etc. into the folders in the IMAP account. (Select all mail messages from the POP3 folder and drag them to the IMAP folder). * Make sure you copy and not move, just incase. 4. Any extra folders they have created need to be copied. If you have Apple Mail, just drag the folder to the IMAP account and it will create the folder and copy all of the messages. If the folder has sub-folders you need to make the top-level IMAP folder first. Mail gets confused if you try to drag a whole tree. 5. Make sure everything works before you delete the POP3 account (I usually leave it around for a few days just incase we missed an important folder or something). 6. When you are ready delete the POP3 account from your mail client. It can sound a bit daunting, but if you do it once on a "test" or unimportant user (so to speak) you should be able to see how easy and fast it is for most users. Most users takes me about 5 minutes to migrate. If your users complain about doing this migration, it took me about 30 seconds to convince all 80 people here that we need to do this. One simple word: Backups. With 70+ workstations backing up their mail is a bit difficult if you don't already have a full backup process in place. It is much easier to do backups on the server that backs up all mail at once. That and their eyes got real big when I showed them all web access to all their mail from home. Hope this helps. Daniel On Jun 7, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Roland Torres wrote: > > On Jun 7, 2006, at 10:50 AM, Daniel Hazelbaker wrote: > >> What you will probably need to do (and I would recommend anyway) >> is to setup his account as IMAP (we've done the POP3->IMAP move 30 >> times this year for people and it is pretty quick), that will then >> show you all the messages on the server, and let you mark them for >> deletion and actually delete them. Again, if you have webmail >> setup you can verify this by logging in (since it uses IMAP) and >> you will probably see messages dating back years that you thought >> were deleted. > > Yes, the mail accounts here all use POP3. What is involved in the > switch to IMAP? Do we need to delete the POP3 email account, and > then recreate it as an IMAP account, or is there a conversion > process involved? This sounds very promising. > > Roland > > From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Wed Jun 7 14:40:14 2006 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (Roland Torres) Date: Wed Jun 7 14:40:22 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? In-Reply-To: <47C8FE5D-D272-46A8-923D-E4C3D7DB1A7B@highdesertchurch.com> References: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> <5bbc0cd60606070549q401bd29fg460ee7344e3ab6a9@mail.gmail.com> <4F3D53B1-3A2D-4F85-B17D-83903D67079E@autonomy.caltech.edu> <362BE114-217A-43E7-96A6-4A5F25354E86@highdesertchurch.com> <47C8FE5D-D272-46A8-923D-E4C3D7DB1A7B@highdesertchurch.com> Message-ID: <7EB9C33E-FA3E-428C-8BA9-41B2A8CBC81B@autonomy.caltech.edu> Daniel, Thanks for taking the time to elaborate the process. I'm not an SA, just the "stuckee" who by default has to squeeze in admin stuff during the day. I will write this up and present it to the Powers That Be?. It's sure to get approval. Thanks! Roland On Jun 7, 2006, at 1:41 PM, Daniel Hazelbaker wrote: > No, you don't need to create any new email accounts or anything. > Your mail server will (should if you are using something very old > or non-standard) support POP3 and IMAP on the same account. All > you need to do is setup your mail client to talk to the mail server > on IMAP as well (create a second access account) and move all the > messages over. I'll give you a summary of what we did here. :) > > Most users (at least in our company) do not have more than 1 or 2 > mail folders, so the process went very quickly for them. > > 1. Disable the mail retrieval for the POP3 account (usually called > something like "automatically get mail for this account"). This is > important, otherwise you will duplicate all your e-mail. > 2. Setup a second account in Mail (or Entourage, whichever you > use). Use the same settings as the POP3 account, except it uses > IMAP instead of POP3. Same username, e-mail address, server, etc. > It will initially show very little, if anything, in its folders. > 3. Copy all the mail from the Inbox, Sent, Trash, Drafts, etc. into > the folders in the IMAP account. (Select all mail messages from the > POP3 folder and drag them to the IMAP folder). * Make sure you > copy and not move, just incase. > 4. Any extra folders they have created need to be copied. If you > have Apple Mail, just drag the folder to the IMAP account and it > will create the folder and copy all of the messages. If the folder > has sub-folders you need to make the top-level IMAP folder first. > Mail gets confused if you try to drag a whole tree. > 5. Make sure everything works before you delete the POP3 account (I > usually leave it around for a few days just incase we missed an > important folder or something). > 6. When you are ready delete the POP3 account from your mail client. > > It can sound a bit daunting, but if you do it once on a "test" or > unimportant user (so to speak) you should be able to see how easy > and fast it is for most users. Most users takes me about 5 minutes > to migrate. > > If your users complain about doing this migration, it took me about > 30 seconds to convince all 80 people here that we need to do this. > One simple word: Backups. With 70+ workstations backing up their > mail is a bit difficult if you don't already have a full backup > process in place. It is much easier to do backups on the server > that backs up all mail at once. That and their eyes got real big > when I showed them all web access to all their mail from home. > > Hope this helps. > > Daniel > > On Jun 7, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Roland Torres wrote: > >> >> On Jun 7, 2006, at 10:50 AM, Daniel Hazelbaker wrote: >> >>> What you will probably need to do (and I would recommend anyway) >>> is to setup his account as IMAP (we've done the POP3->IMAP move >>> 30 times this year for people and it is pretty quick), that will >>> then show you all the messages on the server, and let you mark >>> them for deletion and actually delete them. Again, if you have >>> webmail setup you can verify this by logging in (since it uses >>> IMAP) and you will probably see messages dating back years that >>> you thought were deleted. >> >> Yes, the mail accounts here all use POP3. What is involved in the >> switch to IMAP? Do we need to delete the POP3 email account, and >> then recreate it as an IMAP account, or is there a conversion >> process involved? This sounds very promising. >> >> Roland >> >> > > From ort at bergersen.no Wed Jun 7 15:01:04 2006 From: ort at bergersen.no (Richard Taubo) Date: Wed Jun 7 15:01:17 2006 Subject: hdiutil and deleting existing files in image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi! On 7 Jun 2006, at 20:21, Dan Shoop wrote: > At 12:49 PM +0200 6/7/06, Richard Taubo wrote: >> Hi! >> >> After creating a pretty big image file using hdiutil, I was hoping I >> could delete the contents of the image so I could write to it again, >> e.g: >> >> hdiutil attach $IMAGENAME -owners on >> rm -R /Volumes/$VOLUMENAME/* >> >> Where $IMAGENAME is the full path to the image, and $VOLUMENAME is >> the name of the mounted image. >> I am able to delete the contents of $VOLUMENAME, and the free space >> of the image increases somewhat. >> Still, most of the free space is not recovered. >> >> Is there a way to recover this space, or do I have to create the >> image from scratch again? >> I am using: OS X 10.4 > > What type of disk image did you create and how exactly did you go > about creating it? hdiutil create -quiet -megabytes $MyDiskSize -fs HFS+ -volname $MyVolumeName $MyImageName Where: $MyDiskSize, $MyVolumeName, $MyImageName should be self-explanatory. Thanks! Best regards, Richard Taubo From norman at astro.gla.ac.uk Wed Jun 7 15:50:48 2006 From: norman at astro.gla.ac.uk (Norman Gray) Date: Wed Jun 7 15:51:05 2006 Subject: How does FileVault _really_ work? In-Reply-To: <06AF3D4D-31C4-456C-A56D-CD66DE89CFBC@gmail.com> References: <06AF3D4D-31C4-456C-A56D-CD66DE89CFBC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <72D2736C-1663-4F87-9544-24F71DA2E8D1@astro.gla.ac.uk> On 2006 Jun 4 , at 17.10, Google Kreme wrote: > As for testing the master password, try mounting the image as > another user. > > When you mount the image as yourself, it is looking in YOUR > keychain, and is likely asking for your keychain password. I had originally tried something like this by attempting to mount the image both with 'open' and with 'hdiutil' on a separate machine. I've just tried this simple case (you never know what will make the magic work), of attempting to 'open' the spareseimage as another user, on the same machine. No joy -- I enter the master password but the system just comes straight back and prompts me for a password. Norman -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Norman Gray / http://nxg.me.uk eurovotech.org / University of Leicester, UK From gkreme at gmail.com Wed Jun 7 19:24:37 2006 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Wed Jun 7 19:24:44 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? In-Reply-To: References: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> <5bbc0cd60606070549q401bd29fg460ee7344e3ab6a9@mail.gmail.com> <4F3D53B1-3A2D-4F85-B17D-83903D67079E@autonomy.caltech.edu> <362BE114-217A-43E7-96A6-4A5F25354E86@highdesertchurch.com> Message-ID: <63D785AE-E5C1-46C9-A87A-1BEAD20AC191@gmail.com> On 07 Jun 2006, at 13:40 , Roland Torres wrote: > On Jun 7, 2006, at 10:50 AM, Daniel Hazelbaker wrote: >> What you will probably need to do (and I would recommend anyway) >> is to setup his account as IMAP (we've done the POP3->IMAP move 30 >> times this year for people and it is pretty quick), that will then >> show you all the messages on the server, and let you mark them for >> deletion and actually delete them. Again, if you have webmail >> setup you can verify this by logging in (since it uses IMAP) and >> you will probably see messages dating back years that you thought >> were deleted. > > Yes, the mail accounts here all use POP3. What is involved in the > switch to IMAP? Do we need to delete the POP3 email account, and > then recreate it as an IMAP account, or is there a conversion > process involved? This sounds very promising. Nothing so drastic. In fact, if you use uw-imap there is no conversion at all, since it uses the same mbox format that your system uses for /var/mail/ In fact, we have uw-imap AND POP access to our non-secured mail accounts. If you decide on courier or exim or, $DEITY forbid, cyrus, then it's slightly more complicated as you might have to 'explode' the current mail into Maildir format or something. Might. You will need tohave an imap server running on your mailserver in addition to whatever pop3 you currently have. In most cases, a new IMAP server will also want to replace your POP3 server daemon, so that is something to be aware of. Of course, this all assumes you have control of the mailserver. -- and I swear it happened just like this: / a sigh, a cry, a hungry kiss / the Gates of Love they budged an inch / I can't say much has happened since / but CLOSING TIME From gkreme at gmail.com Wed Jun 7 19:33:51 2006 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Wed Jun 7 19:33:56 2006 Subject: How does FileVault _really_ work? In-Reply-To: <72D2736C-1663-4F87-9544-24F71DA2E8D1@astro.gla.ac.uk> References: <06AF3D4D-31C4-456C-A56D-CD66DE89CFBC@gmail.com> <72D2736C-1663-4F87-9544-24F71DA2E8D1@astro.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 07 Jun 2006, at 16:50 , Norman Gray wrote: > On 2006 Jun 4 , at 17.10, Google Kreme wrote: >> As for testing the master password, try mounting the image as >> another user. >> >> When you mount the image as yourself, it is looking in YOUR >> keychain, and is likely asking for your keychain password. > > I had originally tried something like this by attempting to mount > the image both with 'open' and with 'hdiutil' on a separate > machine. I've just tried this simple case (you never know what > will make the magic work), of attempting to 'open' the spareseimage > as another user, on the same machine. No joy -- I enter the master > password but the system just comes straight back and prompts me for > a password. OK, you got me curious: > To reset the password for an encrypted home folder: > > 1. Try to log in to your user account. When you see the password > hint appear after the third unsuccessful try, click "Forgot Password." > 2. Type (or have the computer's administrator type) the master > password and click Continue. > 3. Read the warning message about your keychain and click OK to > proceed, or click Cancel to stop. > 4. Type a new login password for your account, then type it > again to verify it. > 5. Type a hint that will help you remember your password next time. > 6. Click Login. So, you have to try to login to it three times, get the "forgot password" button, and THEN you can reset the password using the master password. So the master password doesn't give you access to the image, it only gives you access to change the image's key. -- Love seeketh not itself to please Nor for itself hath any care But for another gives its ease And builds a heaven in Hell's despair From shoop at iwiring.net Wed Jun 7 23:55:27 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Wed Jun 7 23:55:38 2006 Subject: Cleaning out msgs in /var/spool/imap? In-Reply-To: References: <75D5885D-1671-4836-A879-7FBAEA5DFAF7@autonomy.caltech.edu> <5bbc0cd60606070549q401bd29fg460ee7344e3ab6a9@mail.gmail.com> <4F3D53B1-3A2D-4F85-B17D-83903D67079E@autonomy.caltech.edu> <362BE114-217A-43E7-96A6-4A5F25354E86@highdesertchurch.com> Message-ID: At 12:40 PM -0700 6/7/06, Roland Torres wrote: >On Jun 7, 2006, at 10:50 AM, Daniel Hazelbaker wrote: > >>What you will probably need to do (and I would recommend anyway) is >>to setup his account as IMAP (we've done the POP3->IMAP move 30 >>times this year for people and it is pretty quick), that will then >>show you all the messages on the server, and let you mark them for >>deletion and actually delete them. Again, if you have webmail >>setup you can verify this by logging in (since it uses IMAP) and >>you will probably see messages dating back years that you thought >>were deleted. > >Yes, the mail accounts here all use POP3. What is involved in the >switch to IMAP? Do we need to delete the POP3 email account, and >then recreate it as an IMAP account, or is there a conversion >process involved? This sounds very promising. Well then your answer is to have the client MUA delete the mail after the pick it up rather than leave it on the server. IMAP is just a different mechanism, you could still implement the same trap. As for your specific answers, the same account and sw is generally used for each it's just a matter of turning it on. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From shoop at iwiring.net Thu Jun 8 00:00:38 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Jun 8 00:00:50 2006 Subject: hdiutil and deleting existing files in image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:01 AM +0200 6/8/06, Richard Taubo wrote: >Hi! > >On 7 Jun 2006, at 20:21, Dan Shoop wrote: > >>At 12:49 PM +0200 6/7/06, Richard Taubo wrote: >>>Hi! >>> >>>After creating a pretty big image file using hdiutil, I was hoping >>>I could delete the contents of the image so I could write to it >>>again, e.g: >>> >>>hdiutil attach $IMAGENAME -owners on >>>rm -R /Volumes/$VOLUMENAME/* >>> >>>Where $IMAGENAME is the full path to the image, and $VOLUMENAME is >>>the name of the mounted image. >>>I am able to delete the contents of $VOLUMENAME, and the free >>>space of the image increases somewhat. >>>Still, most of the free space is not recovered. >>> >>>Is there a way to recover this space, or do I have to create the >>>image from scratch again? >>>I am using: OS X 10.4 >> >>What type of disk image did you create and how exactly did you go >>about creating it? > >hdiutil create -quiet -megabytes $MyDiskSize -fs HFS+ -volname >$MyVolumeName $MyImageName > >Where: $MyDiskSize, $MyVolumeName, $MyImageName should be self-explanatory. Then there's your problem. That's a UDIF image. You want a sparse image. Read the man page. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From ort at bergersen.no Thu Jun 8 00:19:22 2006 From: ort at bergersen.no (Richard Taubo) Date: Thu Jun 8 00:19:46 2006 Subject: hdiutil and deleting existing files in image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18ee06d2aa3af68a82d78908336410bb@bergersen.no> Hi, On 8 Jun 2006, at 09:00, Dan Shoop wrote: > At 12:01 AM +0200 6/8/06, Richard Taubo wrote: >> Hi! >> >> On 7 Jun 2006, at 20:21, Dan Shoop wrote: >> >>> At 12:49 PM +0200 6/7/06, Richard Taubo wrote: >>>> Hi! >>>> >>>> After creating a pretty big image file using hdiutil, I was hoping >>>> I could delete the contents of the image so I could write to it >>>> again, e.g: >>>> >>>> hdiutil attach $IMAGENAME -owners on >>>> rm -R /Volumes/$VOLUMENAME/* >>>> >>>> Where $IMAGENAME is the full path to the image, and $VOLUMENAME is >>>> the name of the mounted image. >>>> I am able to delete the contents of $VOLUMENAME, and the free space >>>> of the image increases somewhat. >>>> Still, most of the free space is not recovered. >>>> >>>> Is there a way to recover this space, or do I have to create the >>>> image from scratch again? >>>> I am using: OS X 10.4 >>> >>> What type of disk image did you create and how exactly did you go >>> about creating it? >> >> hdiutil create -quiet -megabytes $MyDiskSize -fs HFS+ -volname >> $MyVolumeName $MyImageName >> >> Where: $MyDiskSize, $MyVolumeName, $MyImageName should be >> self-explanatory. > > Then there's your problem. That's a UDIF image. You want a sparse > image. > > Read the man page. Thanks. I thought that the sparse image option only controlled if the image was able to expand or not (without having to use the resize option), and not if the the content of the image could be changed or not. So an UDIF image is really a static image even if it is possible to delete the content and somewhat recover parts of the free space in the image? Thanks. Richard Taubo From norman at astro.gla.ac.uk Thu Jun 8 02:59:06 2006 From: norman at astro.gla.ac.uk (Norman Gray) Date: Thu Jun 8 02:59:21 2006 Subject: How does FileVault _really_ work? In-Reply-To: References: <06AF3D4D-31C4-456C-A56D-CD66DE89CFBC@gmail.com> <72D2736C-1663-4F87-9544-24F71DA2E8D1@astro.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 2006 Jun 8 , at 03.33, Google Kreme wrote: > OK, you got me curious: > > >> To reset the password for an encrypted home folder: >> >> 1. Try to log in to your user account. When you see the >> password hint appear after the third unsuccessful try, click >> "Forgot Password." >> 2. Type (or have the computer's administrator type) the master >> password and click Continue. >> 3. Read the warning message about your keychain and click OK to >> proceed, or click Cancel to stop. >> 4. Type a new login password for your account, then type it >> again to verify it. >> 5. Type a hint that will help you remember your password next >> time. >> 6. Click Login. I knew that if you fail to log in three times, then the master password will come to your rescue, magically (there's that word again). But this procedure involves using the master password as an incidental step of an in-principle unrelated operation, namely that of saving a user from a forgotten password. Although a procedure like this would indeed verify that I've got the password noted down correctly, beyond all paranoia, it's not really enough. The problem is that (a) I'm uncomfortable not knowing how the master password safety-net works, and (b) more practically, if I have carefully backed up a copy of the user.sparseimage file, I'd be happier knowing whether the master password was enough by itself to decrypt and mount that image on a completely different machine. My current impression is that it's not, since the FileVaultMaster.keychain is required, too, somehow. And if that's required, who knows what else is magically required. [I know that backing up the .sparseimage would not be a sensible backup strategy in most cases] > So the master password doesn't give you access to the image, it > only gives you access to change the image's key. Yes, it appears to be protecting the RSA key in the keychain, which is _related_ to the .sparseimage. But how, and how can I do the decryption by hand? All the best, Norman -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Norman Gray / http://nxg.me.uk eurovotech.org / University of Leicester, UK From gkreme at gmail.com Thu Jun 8 09:23:35 2006 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Thu Jun 8 09:23:51 2006 Subject: How does FileVault _really_ work? In-Reply-To: References: <06AF3D4D-31C4-456C-A56D-CD66DE89CFBC@gmail.com> <72D2736C-1663-4F87-9544-24F71DA2E8D1@astro.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 08 Jun 2006, at 03:59 , Norman Gray wrote: > The problem is that (a) I'm uncomfortable not knowing how the > master password safety-net works, and (b) more practically, if I > have carefully backed up a copy of the user.sparseimage file, I'd > be happier knowing whether the master password was enough by itself > to decrypt and mount that image on a completely different machine. > My current impression is that it's not, since the > FileVaultMaster.keychain is required, too, somehow. And if that's > required, who knows what else is magically required. You didn't quite get it. >> So the master password doesn't give you access to the image, it >> only gives you access to change the image's key. The Master password does not unlock the image. It does not 'give you access' to the image. It does no decrypt the image. Imagine a safe deposit box with two locks. One opens the box. The other allows the first lock to be re-keyed. The second lock does not open the box, has no access to the box. The only thing it does is provide access to changing which key fits in lock #1 The ONLY thing the master password does is give you a mechanism to reset the password in case it is lost. > Yes, it appears to be protecting the RSA key in the keychain, which > is _related_ to the .sparseimage. But how, and how can I do the > decryption by hand? Only by having the password tot he image itself. -- My biggest problem is that Steve insists on serving PURPLE Kool Aid, and I don't like PURPLE Kool Aid. From mylists at serverlogistics.com Thu Jun 8 11:33:24 2006 From: mylists at serverlogistics.com (Aaron Faby) Date: Thu Jun 8 11:33:28 2006 Subject: ARD 3.0 - Sharing Serial Numbers In-Reply-To: <4C00F1E0-E9F2-4ACB-B63E-CD3391D10DE0@highdesertchurch.com> References: <4C00F1E0-E9F2-4ACB-B63E-CD3391D10DE0@highdesertchurch.com> Message-ID: I don't know, but it's probably against the EULA. Aaron On Jun 7, 2006, at 10:28 AM, Daniel Hazelbaker wrote: > Greetings, > > I am wondering if somebody can verify a feature(?) in ARD 3.0 for > me before I have to put together next year's budget. In ARD 2.x I > can share a serial number between my desktop & laptop without > worrying about it freaking out if another copy using the same > serial # is running. Can anybody tell me if this is still the case > with ARD 3.0? > > Daniel > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aaron Faby Server Logistics aaron@serverlogistics.com Phone: 888-886-4044 http://www.serverlogistics.com Fax: 888-886-4044 Apple Consultants Network Certified Member ---------------------------------------------------------------- From cthacker at cls.ucsf.edu Thu Jun 8 15:11:19 2006 From: cthacker at cls.ucsf.edu (chris thacker) Date: Thu Jun 8 16:11:22 2006 Subject: SystemStarter error Message-ID: <23DBD592-F1AC-4BB8-9369-3F9721E92125@cls.ucsf.edu> If I run: sudo SystemStarter restart fwcld on my mac, it returns "unknown option: 1", even though I'm not typing a 1... any ideas? fwcld is the client process for FIleWave thanks, chris ____________ Chris Thacker Campus Life Services - Information Systems University of California at San Francisco [help desk] 415 502-5511 [direct line] 415 514-3373 From ian at acces.co.jp Thu Jun 8 22:07:56 2006 From: ian at acces.co.jp (Ian Masters) Date: Thu Jun 8 22:28:56 2006 Subject: NTP Problem Message-ID: I have an NTP problem. We used to have a server xxx.xxx.xxx.100 which was one of our ntp servers. That server got retired. So I thought I'd add that server's ip to one of our xserves xxx.xxx.xxx.111, as xserves appear to be ntp servers by default. Problem is that it won't answer the ntp queries that are being thrown at it. Also the original ip will no longer answer ntp queries either. Any ideas what's going wrong here? Thanks Regards Ian Masters --------------------------------------------------------- Acces (OSD Dept)
3-5-11 Doshoumachi Chuo-ku Osaka 541-0045 Japan 06-6208-1600 (switchboard) 06-6208-1610 (switchboard) ian@acces.co.jp --------------------------------------------------------- From gsslist+osxadmin at anthropohedron.net Fri Jun 9 03:28:51 2006 From: gsslist+osxadmin at anthropohedron.net (Gregory Seidman) Date: Fri Jun 9 03:35:24 2006 Subject: Controlling the NAT subnet for Internet Connection Sharing Message-ID: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> I can't figure out how to control what internal subnet the Internet Connection Sharing NAT uses. I am using the Parallels Desktop virtualization software, which provides an internal network interface (device) which is what is virtually connected to host-only networked VMs. In System Preferences, this device is available to Internet Connection Sharing, and it winds up providing a NAT for the VMs. This is great, except the subnet of the NAT is chosen automatically, and I can't find a way to configure it. This is relevant largely because I have a laptop. When on my home network, which uses the 192.168.1.0/24 subnet, the system chooses the 192.168.2.0/24 subnet. When at work, which uses a 10.x.x.x network, it chooses the 192.168.1.0/24 subnet. I could work around this by changing around my home network to use another subnet, and I will if I can't find a solution, but it isn't ideal. Does anyone know how to configure the subnet manually? --Greg From g.lee at ed.ac.uk Fri Jun 9 05:51:45 2006 From: g.lee at ed.ac.uk (Geoff Lee) Date: Fri Jun 9 05:51:54 2006 Subject: Controlling the NAT subnet for Internet Connection Sharing In-Reply-To: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> Message-ID: <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> On 9 Jun 2006, at 11:28, Gregory Seidman wrote: > I can't figure out how to control what internal subnet the Internet > Connection Sharing NAT uses. I am using the Parallels Desktop > virtualization software, which provides an internal network interface > (device) which is what is virtually connected to host-only > networked VMs. > In System Preferences, this device is available to Internet Connection > Sharing, and it winds up providing a NAT for the VMs. This is > great, except > the subnet of the NAT is chosen automatically, and I can't find a > way to > configure it. The DHCP info is stored in Netinfo under /config/dhcp/subnets - you should be able to put your own info in here. You might have to do other things to get NAT working - I don't know. HTH -geoff ______________________________________ Geoff Lee Computing Support School of Arts, Culture and Environment University of Edinburgh 20 Chambers St, Edinburgh, Scotland, EH1 1JZ Tel: +44 (0)131 650 2341/2281 ______________________________________ From g.lee at ed.ac.uk Fri Jun 9 05:37:17 2006 From: g.lee at ed.ac.uk (Geoff Lee) Date: Fri Jun 9 06:15:06 2006 Subject: SystemStarter error In-Reply-To: <23DBD592-F1AC-4BB8-9369-3F9721E92125@cls.ucsf.edu> References: <23DBD592-F1AC-4BB8-9369-3F9721E92125@cls.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: On 8 Jun 2006, at 23:11, chris thacker wrote: > If I run: > > sudo SystemStarter restart fwcld > > on my mac, it returns "unknown option: 1", even though I'm not > typing a 1... > any ideas? Sounds like an error in the startup script. Can you post the contents of /Library/StartupItems/FileWave/FileWave (or whatever the startup script is..)? -geoff ______________________________________ Geoff Lee Computing Support School of Arts, Culture and Environment University of Edinburgh 20 Chambers St, Edinburgh, Scotland, EH1 1JZ Tel: +44 (0)131 650 2341/2281 ______________________________________ From kef_list at ibacom.es Fri Jun 9 05:55:22 2006 From: kef_list at ibacom.es (kef_list) Date: Fri Jun 9 06:55:26 2006 Subject: How to define with passive ports are used In-Reply-To: <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> Hi guys, Under Mac OS X Server 1.4.x, ?Does anyone know how to define which ports will be used by the FTP server when using passive mode? Thanks, Charles From gkreme at gmail.com Fri Jun 9 07:25:33 2006 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Fri Jun 9 07:25:39 2006 Subject: How to define with passive ports are used In-Reply-To: <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> Message-ID: <1A75E052-C199-4B56-91EE-650816DF26D2@gmail.com> On 09 Jun 2006, at 06:55 , kef_list wrote: > Hi guys, > > Under Mac OS X Server 1.4.x, > > ?Does anyone know how to define which ports will be used by the FTP > server when using passive mode? If you define the ports, it's not passive anymore. As I understand it, only the client connecting can define a port range for passive ftp -- I mistoke thee for thy better Hamlet Act III scene 4 From kef_list at ibacom.es Fri Jun 9 07:42:04 2006 From: kef_list at ibacom.es (kef_list) Date: Fri Jun 9 07:42:08 2006 Subject: How to define with passive ports are used In-Reply-To: <1A75E052-C199-4B56-91EE-650816DF26D2@gmail.com> References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> <1A75E052-C199-4B56-91EE-650816DF26D2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <552EA6F3-D289-4E19-A190-E3E67230BC42@ibacom.es> Not really so. Sorry, of all I should have said "port range". What really happens under passive FTP is that after the initial connection from the client, the server sends a valid port range, and only then does the client choose a port inside that range. I have other servers under Linux using ProFTPD (great FTP server by the way!), and you can easily configure it to use a port range for passive FTP. I normally set the range to something like 40000-65000, as there are no well known services that use ports that high, so I can safely open the firewall to those ports. As far as I can tell, by default Mac OS X FTP server uses a range starting at 1024, and there are many services that start with ports that low, including Apple's own ARD, Macintosh Manager, etc, etc. Thanks for your help. Charles On Jun 9, 2006, at 16:25 , Google Kreme wrote: > On 09 Jun 2006, at 06:55 , kef_list wrote: >> Hi guys, >> >> Under Mac OS X Server 1.4.x, >> >> ?Does anyone know how to define which ports will be used by the >> FTP server when using passive mode? > > If you define the ports, it's not passive anymore. > > As I understand it, only the client connecting can define a port > range for passive ftp > > > -- > I mistoke thee for thy better > Hamlet Act III scene 4 > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin ____________________________________________________ Institut Balear de Comunicacions, S.L. Gremio Tejedores 22, 1 07009 Palma de Mallorca, Spain Tel: +34 971.45.90.99 | Mobile: +34 607.87.12.77 Fax: +34 971.43.08.18 | E-mail: ckefauver@ibacom.es URL: http://www.ibacom.es/ ____________________________________________________ From leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk Fri Jun 9 07:48:03 2006 From: leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk (Graham J Lee) Date: Fri Jun 9 07:47:08 2006 Subject: How to define with passive ports are used In-Reply-To: <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> Message-ID: <6A0B705D-7A26-4DCA-8F49-130432212FE7@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> On 9 Jun 2006, at 13:55, kef_list wrote: > Hi guys, > > Under Mac OS X Server 1.4.x, > > ?Does anyone know how to define which ports will be used by the FTP > server when using passive mode? According to the manpage, you use the portrange directive in ftpd.conf (5). -- Graham J Lee "Oxford University's UNIX Expert" As seen in MacWorld UK http://iamleeg.blogspot.com From cthacker at cls.ucsf.edu Fri Jun 9 08:27:45 2006 From: cthacker at cls.ucsf.edu (chris thacker) Date: Fri Jun 9 08:27:50 2006 Subject: SystemStarter error In-Reply-To: References: <23DBD592-F1AC-4BB8-9369-3F9721E92125@cls.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: <03BE0A78-D117-4FEE-A952-B2C8FCFC3555@cls.ucsf.edu> sure, if you'd like to see it. remember that i didn't write it. it's part of an installer for the program. ------------------------------------------- #!/bin/bash ## # Start/Restart/Stop the FileWave client daemon. ## ## please following these insrcustions to not have the client start at startup ## please add a line FWCLIENT=-NO- to /etc/hostconfig ## please uncomment the ## if [ "${FWCLIENT:=-NO-}"... . /etc/rc.common StartService () { # if [ "${FWCLIENT:=-NO-}" = "-YES-" ]; then # for use with /etc/hostconfig if [ -f /usr/local/etc/fwcld.conf ]; then if ! pid=$(GetPID fwcld); then ConsoleMessage "Starting FileWave Client" /usr/local/sbin/FileWave.app/Contents/MacOS/fwcld -D else ConsoleMessage "FileWave Client is already running" fi else ConsoleMessage "Warning: FileWave Client can't start (no config file)" fi #else #ConsoleMessage "FWCLIENT is set to NO in /etc/hostconfig" #ConsoleMessage "fwcld did not start" ##fi } StopService () { if pid=$(GetPID fwcld); then ConsoleMessage "Stopping FileWave Client" kill -TERM "${pid}" sleep 2 if pid=$(GetPID fwcld); then kill -ABRT "${pid}" fi if [ -f /private/var/run/fwcld.pid ]; then rm /private/var/run/fwcld.pid fi else ConsoleMessage "FileWave Client is not running" fi } RestartService () { StopService sleep 2 StartService } RunService "$1" ------------------------------------------- ____________ Chris Thacker Campus Life Services - Information Systems University of California at San Francisco [help desk] 415 502-5511 [direct line] 415 514-3373 On Jun 9, 2006, at 5:37 AM, Geoff Lee wrote: > > On 8 Jun 2006, at 23:11, chris thacker wrote: > >> If I run: >> >> sudo SystemStarter restart fwcld >> >> on my mac, it returns "unknown option: 1", even though I'm not >> typing a 1... >> any ideas? > > Sounds like an error in the startup script. Can you post the > contents of /Library/StartupItems/FileWave/FileWave (or whatever > the startup script is..)? > > -geoff > > ______________________________________ > Geoff Lee > Computing Support > School of Arts, Culture and Environment > University of Edinburgh > 20 Chambers St, > Edinburgh, Scotland, > EH1 1JZ > Tel: +44 (0)131 650 2341/2281 > ______________________________________ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin From shoop at iwiring.net Fri Jun 9 09:00:56 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Fri Jun 9 09:01:23 2006 Subject: How to define with passive ports are used In-Reply-To: <1A75E052-C199-4B56-91EE-650816DF26D2@gmail.com> References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> <1A75E052-C199-4B56-91EE-650816DF26D2@gmail.com> Message-ID: At 8:25 AM -0600 6/9/06, Google Kreme wrote: >On 09 Jun 2006, at 06:55 , kef_list wrote: >>Hi guys, >> >>Under Mac OS X Server 1.4.x, >> >>?Does anyone know how to define which ports >>will be used by the FTP server when using >>passive mode? > >If you define the ports, it's not passive anymore. > >As I understand it, only the client connecting >can define a port range for passive ftp PASV specifically specifies the port to use, yes. So any settings on the FTPd server are moot. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk Fri Jun 9 09:14:52 2006 From: leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk (Graham J Lee) Date: Fri Jun 9 09:14:05 2006 Subject: How to define with passive ports are used In-Reply-To: References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> <1A75E052-C199-4B56-91EE-650816DF26D2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <889A591F-AA0A-4910-B6B1-2DA5F153869D@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> On 9 Jun 2006, at 17:00, Dan Shoop wrote: > At 8:25 AM -0600 6/9/06, Google Kreme wrote: >> On 09 Jun 2006, at 06:55 , kef_list wrote: >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> Under Mac OS X Server 1.4.x, >>> >>> ?Does anyone know how to define which ports will be used by the >>> FTP server when using passive mode? >> >> If you define the ports, it's not passive anymore. >> >> As I understand it, only the client connecting can define a port >> range for passive ftp > > PASV specifically specifies the port to use, yes. So any settings > on the FTPd server are moot. RTFRFC: RFC 959, ?4.1.2 > PASSIVE (PASV) > > This command requests the server-DTP to "listen" on a data > port (which is not its default data port) and to wait > for a > connection rather than initiate one upon receipt of a > transfer command. The response to this command > includes the > host and port address this server is listening on. > this means that the *server* chooses the port for passive transfer, so the range is settable *on the server*. You can verify that the server chooses the port by inspecting a PASV request: > 220- > 220- University of Oxford, Department of Physics > 220- > 220- Practical Course Computing Laboratory > 220- > 220- All ftp connections recorded: unauthorised access forbidden > 220- > 220 rayleigh FTP server (SunOS 5.7) ready. [...] > 230 User leeg logged in. > PASV > 227 Entering Passive Mode (163,1,245,100,160,109) this tells you that the *server* has selected port 41069 for the transfer. Let's see if that port is open: > leeg@leegion:~>telnet rayleigh 41069 > Trying 163.1.245.100... > Connected to rayleigh.physics.ox.ac.uk. > Escape character is '^]'. Yes, I'd say it is. Settings on the ftp server are important when a passive transfer is attempted. Cheers, Graham. -- Graham J Lee "Oxford University's UNIX Expert" As seen in MacWorld UK http://iamleeg.blogspot.com From kef_list at ibacom.es Fri Jun 9 09:37:16 2006 From: kef_list at ibacom.es (kef_list) Date: Fri Jun 9 09:37:22 2006 Subject: How to define with passive ports are used In-Reply-To: <889A591F-AA0A-4910-B6B1-2DA5F153869D@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> <1A75E052-C199-4B56-91EE-650816DF26D2@gmail.com> <889A591F-AA0A-4910-B6B1-2DA5F153869D@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <6761E502-AC70-41B8-BCB7-C9531674F752@ibacom.es> >> 227 Entering Passive Mode (163,1,245,100,160,109) > this tells you that the *server* has selected port 41069 for the > transfer. Let's see if that port is open: Out of curiosity, How were you able to calculate 41069 from 160,109? Charles On Jun 9, 2006, at 18:14 , Graham J Lee wrote: > On 9 Jun 2006, at 17:00, Dan Shoop wrote: > >> At 8:25 AM -0600 6/9/06, Google Kreme wrote: >>> On 09 Jun 2006, at 06:55 , kef_list wrote: >>>> Hi guys, >>>> >>>> Under Mac OS X Server 1.4.x, >>>> >>>> ?Does anyone know how to define which ports will be used by the >>>> FTP server when using passive mode? >>> >>> If you define the ports, it's not passive anymore. >>> >>> As I understand it, only the client connecting can define a port >>> range for passive ftp >> >> PASV specifically specifies the port to use, yes. So any settings >> on the FTPd server are moot. > > RTFRFC: > > RFC 959, ?4.1.2 >> PASSIVE (PASV) >> >> This command requests the server-DTP to "listen" on a >> data >> port (which is not its default data port) and to wait >> for a >> connection rather than initiate one upon receipt of a >> transfer command. The response to this command >> includes the >> host and port address this server is listening on. >> > this means that the *server* chooses the port for passive transfer, > so the range is settable *on the server*. You can verify that the > server chooses the port by inspecting a PASV request: > >> 220- >> 220- University of Oxford, Department of Physics >> 220- >> 220- Practical Course Computing Laboratory >> 220- >> 220- All ftp connections recorded: unauthorised access forbidden >> 220- >> 220 rayleigh FTP server (SunOS 5.7) ready. > [...] >> 230 User leeg logged in. >> PASV >> 227 Entering Passive Mode (163,1,245,100,160,109) > this tells you that the *server* has selected port 41069 for the > transfer. Let's see if that port is open: >> leeg@leegion:~>telnet rayleigh 41069 >> Trying 163.1.245.100... >> Connected to rayleigh.physics.ox.ac.uk. >> Escape character is '^]'. > > Yes, I'd say it is. Settings on the ftp server are important when > a passive transfer is attempted. > > Cheers, > > Graham. > -- > Graham J Lee > "Oxford University's UNIX Expert" > As seen in MacWorld UK > http://iamleeg.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin ____________________________________________________ Institut Balear de Comunicacions, S.L. Gremio Tejedores 22, 1 07009 Palma de Mallorca, Spain Tel: +34 971.45.90.99 | Mobile: +34 607.87.12.77 Fax: +34 971.43.08.18 | E-mail: ckefauver@ibacom.es URL: http://www.ibacom.es/ ____________________________________________________ From conrad at yoders.org Fri Jun 9 09:26:50 2006 From: conrad at yoders.org (Conrad G T Yoder) Date: Fri Jun 9 09:45:40 2006 Subject: NTP Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6/9/06 1:07 AM -0400, Ian Masters wrote: > > We used to have a server xxx.xxx.xxx.100 which was one of our ntp servers. > That server got retired. > > So I thought I'd add that server's ip to one of our xserves xxx.xxx.xxx.111, > as xserves appear to be ntp servers by default. > > Problem is that it won't answer the ntp queries that are being thrown at it. > Also the original ip will no longer answer ntp queries either. > > Any ideas what's going wrong here? Have you confirmed that ntpd is running? Is there a firewall of any kind blocking UDP port 123? -Conrad -- Beware before - Beware after. From kef_list at ibacom.es Fri Jun 9 10:04:49 2006 From: kef_list at ibacom.es (kef_list) Date: Fri Jun 9 10:04:53 2006 Subject: How to define with passive ports are used In-Reply-To: <6A0B705D-7A26-4DCA-8F49-130432212FE7@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> <6A0B705D-7A26-4DCA-8F49-130432212FE7@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <84787AEC-4077-4691-A7C7-4FA6F171E7EE@ibacom.es> Gee how dumb of me... I am used to using man pages for Linux, but always forget to do so under mac os x.... Just one correction though, at least in 10.4, instead of ftpd.conf, if should be ftpaccess (in /Library/FTPServer/Configuration) thanks, Charles On Jun 9, 2006, at 16:48 , Graham J Lee wrote: > On 9 Jun 2006, at 13:55, kef_list wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> Under Mac OS X Server 1.4.x, >> >> ?Does anyone know how to define which ports will be used by the >> FTP server when using passive mode? > > According to the manpage, you use the portrange directive in > ftpd.conf(5). > > -- > Graham J Lee > "Oxford University's UNIX Expert" > As seen in MacWorld UK > http://iamleeg.blogspot.com > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin ____________________________________________________ Institut Balear de Comunicacions, S.L. Gremio Tejedores 22, 1 07009 Palma de Mallorca, Spain Tel: +34 971.45.90.99 | Mobile: +34 607.87.12.77 Fax: +34 971.43.08.18 | E-mail: ckefauver@ibacom.es URL: http://www.ibacom.es/ ____________________________________________________ From leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk Fri Jun 9 11:06:52 2006 From: leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk (Graham J Lee) Date: Fri Jun 9 11:07:20 2006 Subject: How to define with passive ports are used In-Reply-To: <6761E502-AC70-41B8-BCB7-C9531674F752@ibacom.es> References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> <1A75E052-C199-4B56-91EE-650816DF26D2@gmail.com> <889A591F-AA0A-4910-B6B1-2DA5F153869D@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> <6761E502-AC70-41B8-BCB7-C9531674F752@ibacom.es> Message-ID: <4489B8BC.7060509@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> On 9/6/06 17:37, kef_list wrote: >>> 227 Entering Passive Mode (163,1,245,100,160,109) >> this tells you that the *server* has selected port 41069 for the >> transfer. Let's see if that port is open: > > > Out of curiosity, > > How were you able to calculate 41069 from 160,109? > the two numbers represent the high and low octets of the port number respectively, in decimal. So it's 160*256+109=41069. Cheers, Graham. -- Graham Lee UNIX Systems Manager, Oxford Physics Practical Course http://iamleeg.blogspot.com/ From kef_list at ibacom.es Fri Jun 9 13:02:59 2006 From: kef_list at ibacom.es (kef_list) Date: Fri Jun 9 13:03:05 2006 Subject: How to define with passive ports are used In-Reply-To: <4489B8BC.7060509@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> <1A75E052-C199-4B56-91EE-650816DF26D2@gmail.com> <889A591F-AA0A-4910-B6B1-2DA5F153869D@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> <6761E502-AC70-41B8-BCB7-C9531674F752@ibacom.es> <4489B8BC.7060509@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thanks! On Jun 9, 2006, at 20:06 , Graham J Lee wrote: > On 9/6/06 17:37, kef_list wrote: >>>> 227 Entering Passive Mode (163,1,245,100,160,109) >>> this tells you that the *server* has selected port 41069 for the >>> transfer. Let's see if that port is open: >> Out of curiosity, >> How were you able to calculate 41069 from 160,109? > > the two numbers represent the high and low octets of the port > number respectively, in decimal. So it's 160*256+109=41069. > > Cheers, > > Graham. > -- > Graham Lee > UNIX Systems Manager, > Oxford Physics Practical Course > http://iamleeg.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin ____________________________________________________ Institut Balear de Comunicacions, S.L. Gremio Tejedores 22, 1 07009 Palma de Mallorca, Spain Tel: +34 971.45.90.99 | Mobile: +34 607.87.12.77 Fax: +34 971.43.08.18 | E-mail: ckefauver@ibacom.es URL: http://www.ibacom.es/ ____________________________________________________ From donkergroen at mac.com Fri Jun 9 13:06:39 2006 From: donkergroen at mac.com (Donkergroen bvba) Date: Fri Jun 9 13:06:49 2006 Subject: /etc/sshd_config In-Reply-To: <6A0B705D-7A26-4DCA-8F49-130432212FE7@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> <6A0B705D-7A26-4DCA-8F49-130432212FE7@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2790C93E-1E0A-4F1B-8715-DD9046A12033@mac.com> I have a local network behind a osx box that is connected over adsl ppp to the internet. I want to be able to login to it remotely without the outside world to see it. ( got a bit paranoid by examining the logs, multiple daily attempts to get in ) I modified /etc/sshd_config to only listen to my private network : I followed the man page and added : ListenAddress 192.168.4.18 I did a killall -signal SIGHUP sshd but when I run a web scan for open ports I get : ( sorry its in french ) ( "ouvert" means open ) R?sultat du scan (effectu? en 6 secondes): Votre ip sorry removed Votre syst?me Mac OS X Liste des ports visibles: Nom Status Numero Information ssh ouvert 22/tcp Secure Shell Login smtp filtr? 25/tcp Simple Mail Transfer msrpc filtr? 135/tcp Microsoft RPC services netbios-ns filtr? 137/tcp NETBIOS Name Service netbios-dgm filtr? 138/tcp NETBIOS Datagram Service netbios-ssn filtr? 139/tcp NETBIOS Session Service microsoft-ds filtr? 445/tcp SMB directly over IP socks filtr? 1080/tcp dc filtr? 2001/tcp or nfr20 web queries squid-http filtr? 3128/tcp http-proxy filtr? 8080/tcp Common HTTP proxy/second web server port blackice-icecap filtr? 8081/tcp ICECap user console but when I run netstat : netstat Active Internet connections Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address (state) tcp4 0 0 192.168.4.18.ssh 192.168.4.20.56495 ESTABLISHED tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1010 ESTABLISHED tcp4 0 0 localhost.1010 localhost.netinfo-loca ESTABLISHED tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1011 ESTABLISHED tcp4 0 0 localhost.1011 localhost.netinfo-loca ESTABLISHED tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1016 ESTABLISHED tcp4 0 0 localhost.1016 localhost.netinfo-loca ESTABLISHED tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1021 ESTABLISHED tcp4 0 0 localhost.1021 localhost.netinfo-loca ESTABLISHED udp4 0 0 *.* *.* udp4 0 0 *.ipp *.* udp4 0 0 localhost.49182 localhost.1022 udp46 0 0 *.49171 *.* udp4 0 0 *.49170 *.* udp4 0 0 192.168.2.1.domain *.* udp4 0 0 *.5351 *.* udp4 0 0 *.bootps *.* udp4 0 0 *.mdns *.* udp4 0 0 52-166.241.81.ad.ntp *.* udp4 0 0 192.168.2.1.ntp *.* udp4 0 0 192.168.4.18.ntp *.* udp4 0 0 localhost.ntp *.* udp4 0 0 *.ntp *.* udp4 0 0 localhost.49158 localhost.1022 udp4 0 0 localhost.1022 *.* udp4 0 0 localhost.49156 localhost.1023 udp4 0 0 localhost.1023 *.* udp4 0 0 *.* *.* udp6 0 0 *.5353 *.* udp4 0 0 *.mdns *.* udp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca *.* icm4 0 0 *.* *.* icm6 0 0 *.* *.* Am I missing something ? I don't see anything listening on port 22, except on the local network From donkergroen at mac.com Fri Jun 9 13:29:36 2006 From: donkergroen at mac.com (Donkergroen bvba) Date: Fri Jun 9 13:29:39 2006 Subject: /etc/sshd_config In-Reply-To: <2790C93E-1E0A-4F1B-8715-DD9046A12033@mac.com> References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> <6A0B705D-7A26-4DCA-8F49-130432212FE7@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> <2790C93E-1E0A-4F1B-8715-DD9046A12033@mac.com> Message-ID: <234992E3-B063-4E77-9378-606605947C24@mac.com> this didn't work well, but anyways, it shows port 22 to be open On 09 Jun 2006, at 22:06, Donkergroen bvba wrote: > I have a local network behind a osx box that is connected over adsl > ppp to the internet. > I want to be able to login to it remotely without the outside world > to see it. > ( got a bit paranoid by examining the logs, multiple daily attempts > to get in ) > I modified /etc/sshd_config to only listen to my private network : > I followed the man page and added : > ListenAddress 192.168.4.18 > > I did a killall -signal SIGHUP sshd > > but when I run a web scan for open ports I get : ( sorry its in > french ) > ( "ouvert" means open ) > > R?sultat du scan (effectu? en 6 secondes): > > Votre ip > sorry removed > Votre syst?me > Mac OS X > Liste des ports visibles: > Nom > Status > Numero > Information > ssh > ouvert > 22/tcp > Secure Shell Login > smtp > filtr? > 25/tcp > Simple Mail Transfer > msrpc > filtr? > 135/tcp > Microsoft RPC services > netbios-ns > filtr? > 137/tcp > NETBIOS Name Service > netbios-dgm > filtr? > 138/tcp > NETBIOS Datagram Service > netbios-ssn > filtr? > 139/tcp > NETBIOS Session Service > microsoft-ds > filtr? > 445/tcp > SMB directly over IP > socks > filtr? > 1080/tcp > > dc > filtr? > 2001/tcp > or nfr20 web queries > squid-http > filtr? > 3128/tcp > > http-proxy > filtr? > 8080/tcp > Common HTTP proxy/second web server port > blackice-icecap > filtr? > 8081/tcp > ICECap user console > > but when I run netstat : > netstat > Active Internet connections > Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address > (state) > tcp4 0 0 192.168.4.18.ssh 192.168.4.20.56495 > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1010 > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.1010 localhost.netinfo-loca > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1011 > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.1011 localhost.netinfo-loca > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1016 > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.1016 localhost.netinfo-loca > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1021 > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.1021 localhost.netinfo-loca > ESTABLISHED > udp4 0 0 *.* *.* > udp4 0 0 *.ipp *.* > udp4 0 0 localhost.49182 localhost.1022 > udp46 0 0 *.49171 *.* > udp4 0 0 *.49170 *.* > udp4 0 0 192.168.2.1.domain *.* > udp4 0 0 *.5351 *.* > udp4 0 0 *.bootps *.* > udp4 0 0 *.mdns *.* > udp4 0 0 52-166.241.81.ad.ntp *.* > udp4 0 0 192.168.2.1.ntp *.* > udp4 0 0 192.168.4.18.ntp *.* > udp4 0 0 localhost.ntp *.* > udp4 0 0 *.ntp *.* > udp4 0 0 localhost.49158 localhost.1022 > udp4 0 0 localhost.1022 *.* > udp4 0 0 localhost.49156 localhost.1023 > udp4 0 0 localhost.1023 *.* > udp4 0 0 *.* *.* > udp6 0 0 *.5353 *.* > udp4 0 0 *.mdns *.* > udp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca *.* > icm4 0 0 *.* *.* > icm6 0 0 *.* *.* > > Am I missing something ? > I don't see anything listening on port 22, except on the local network > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin From andrewo at liveworld.com Fri Jun 9 13:42:05 2006 From: andrewo at liveworld.com (Andrew Oliver) Date: Fri Jun 9 13:42:21 2006 Subject: /etc/sshd_config In-Reply-To: <2790C93E-1E0A-4F1B-8715-DD9046A12033@mac.com> References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> <6A0B705D-7A26-4DCA-8F49-130432212FE7@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> <2790C93E-1E0A-4F1B-8715-DD9046A12033@mac.com> Message-ID: ListenAddress does nothing to secure your server from the outside world. It just tells the server what IP address to listen on (i.e. on the server itself). Your options for securing SSH are numerous. You could use the firewall to permit port 22 from only known/trusted IP addresses. You could configure sshd to only permit key-based authentication (no password login permitted) which will prevent password compromises, although it doesn't hide your machine from the network). As for why you don't see it listed when you run a netstat, that's because SSH is managed by launchd, which spawns a sshd process when an incoming connection starts. There's no sshd process listening when there aren't any connections. Andrew :) On Jun 9, 2006, at 1:06 PM, Donkergroen bvba wrote: > I have a local network behind a osx box that is connected over adsl > ppp to the internet. > I want to be able to login to it remotely without the outside world > to see it. > ( got a bit paranoid by examining the logs, multiple daily attempts > to get in ) > I modified /etc/sshd_config to only listen to my private network : > I followed the man page and added : > ListenAddress 192.168.4.18 > > I did a killall -signal SIGHUP sshd > > but when I run a web scan for open ports I get : ( sorry its in > french ) > ( "ouvert" means open ) > > R?sultat du scan (effectu? en 6 secondes): > > Votre ip > sorry removed > Votre syst?me > Mac OS X > Liste des ports visibles: > Nom > Status > Numero > Information > ssh > ouvert > 22/tcp > Secure Shell Login > smtp > filtr? > 25/tcp > Simple Mail Transfer > msrpc > filtr? > 135/tcp > Microsoft RPC services > netbios-ns > filtr? > 137/tcp > NETBIOS Name Service > netbios-dgm > filtr? > 138/tcp > NETBIOS Datagram Service > netbios-ssn > filtr? > 139/tcp > NETBIOS Session Service > microsoft-ds > filtr? > 445/tcp > SMB directly over IP > socks > filtr? > 1080/tcp > > dc > filtr? > 2001/tcp > or nfr20 web queries > squid-http > filtr? > 3128/tcp > > http-proxy > filtr? > 8080/tcp > Common HTTP proxy/second web server port > blackice-icecap > filtr? > 8081/tcp > ICECap user console > > but when I run netstat : > netstat > Active Internet connections > Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address > (state) > tcp4 0 0 192.168.4.18.ssh 192.168.4.20.56495 > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1010 > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.1010 localhost.netinfo-loca > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1011 > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.1011 localhost.netinfo-loca > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1016 > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.1016 localhost.netinfo-loca > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1021 > ESTABLISHED > tcp4 0 0 localhost.1021 localhost.netinfo-loca > ESTABLISHED > udp4 0 0 *.* *.* > udp4 0 0 *.ipp *.* > udp4 0 0 localhost.49182 localhost.1022 > udp46 0 0 *.49171 *.* > udp4 0 0 *.49170 *.* > udp4 0 0 192.168.2.1.domain *.* > udp4 0 0 *.5351 *.* > udp4 0 0 *.bootps *.* > udp4 0 0 *.mdns *.* > udp4 0 0 52-166.241.81.ad.ntp *.* > udp4 0 0 192.168.2.1.ntp *.* > udp4 0 0 192.168.4.18.ntp *.* > udp4 0 0 localhost.ntp *.* > udp4 0 0 *.ntp *.* > udp4 0 0 localhost.49158 localhost.1022 > udp4 0 0 localhost.1022 *.* > udp4 0 0 localhost.49156 localhost.1023 > udp4 0 0 localhost.1023 *.* > udp4 0 0 *.* *.* > udp6 0 0 *.5353 *.* > udp4 0 0 *.mdns *.* > udp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca *.* > icm4 0 0 *.* *.* > icm6 0 0 *.* *.* > > Am I missing something ? > I don't see anything listening on port 22, except on the local network > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin From donkergroen at mac.com Fri Jun 9 13:52:05 2006 From: donkergroen at mac.com (Donkergroen bvba) Date: Fri Jun 9 13:52:07 2006 Subject: /etc/sshd_config In-Reply-To: References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> <6A0B705D-7A26-4DCA-8F49-130432212FE7@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> <2790C93E-1E0A-4F1B-8715-DD9046A12033@mac.com> Message-ID: <5B599ED8-85A8-4647-9845-A0783631E06B@mac.com> So what purpose does ListenAddress have ? It seems to be none ! My problem with using the osx firewall is that it seems to apply to all interfaces, not just the internet one. On 09 Jun 2006, at 22:42, Andrew Oliver wrote: > ListenAddress does nothing to secure your server from the outside > world. It just tells the server what IP address to listen on (i.e. > on the server itself). > > Your options for securing SSH are numerous. > > You could use the firewall to permit port 22 from only known/ > trusted IP addresses. > You could configure sshd to only permit key-based authentication > (no password login permitted) which will prevent password > compromises, although it doesn't hide your machine from the network). > > As for why you don't see it listed when you run a netstat, that's > because SSH is managed by launchd, which spawns a sshd process when > an incoming connection starts. There's no sshd process listening > when there aren't any connections. > > Andrew > :) > > > On Jun 9, 2006, at 1:06 PM, Donkergroen bvba wrote: > >> I have a local network behind a osx box that is connected over >> adsl ppp to the internet. >> I want to be able to login to it remotely without the outside >> world to see it. >> ( got a bit paranoid by examining the logs, multiple daily >> attempts to get in ) >> I modified /etc/sshd_config to only listen to my private network : >> I followed the man page and added : >> ListenAddress 192.168.4.18 >> >> I did a killall -signal SIGHUP sshd >> >> but when I run a web scan for open ports I get : ( sorry its in >> french ) >> ( "ouvert" means open ) >> >> R?sultat du scan (effectu? en 6 secondes): >> >> Votre ip >> sorry removed >> Votre syst?me >> Mac OS X >> Liste des ports visibles: >> Nom >> Status >> Numero >> Information >> ssh >> ouvert >> 22/tcp >> Secure Shell Login >> smtp >> filtr? >> 25/tcp >> Simple Mail Transfer >> msrpc >> filtr? >> 135/tcp >> Microsoft RPC services >> netbios-ns >> filtr? >> 137/tcp >> NETBIOS Name Service >> netbios-dgm >> filtr? >> 138/tcp >> NETBIOS Datagram Service >> netbios-ssn >> filtr? >> 139/tcp >> NETBIOS Session Service >> microsoft-ds >> filtr? >> 445/tcp >> SMB directly over IP >> socks >> filtr? >> 1080/tcp >> >> dc >> filtr? >> 2001/tcp >> or nfr20 web queries >> squid-http >> filtr? >> 3128/tcp >> >> http-proxy >> filtr? >> 8080/tcp >> Common HTTP proxy/second web server port >> blackice-icecap >> filtr? >> 8081/tcp >> ICECap user console >> >> but when I run netstat : >> netstat >> Active Internet connections >> Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address >> (state) >> tcp4 0 0 192.168.4.18.ssh 192.168.4.20.56495 >> ESTABLISHED >> tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1010 >> ESTABLISHED >> tcp4 0 0 localhost.1010 localhost.netinfo-loca >> ESTABLISHED >> tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1011 >> ESTABLISHED >> tcp4 0 0 localhost.1011 localhost.netinfo-loca >> ESTABLISHED >> tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1016 >> ESTABLISHED >> tcp4 0 0 localhost.1016 localhost.netinfo-loca >> ESTABLISHED >> tcp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca localhost.1021 >> ESTABLISHED >> tcp4 0 0 localhost.1021 localhost.netinfo-loca >> ESTABLISHED >> udp4 0 0 *.* *.* >> udp4 0 0 *.ipp *.* >> udp4 0 0 localhost.49182 localhost.1022 >> udp46 0 0 *.49171 *.* >> udp4 0 0 *.49170 *.* >> udp4 0 0 192.168.2.1.domain *.* >> udp4 0 0 *.5351 *.* >> udp4 0 0 *.bootps *.* >> udp4 0 0 *.mdns *.* >> udp4 0 0 52-166.241.81.ad.ntp *.* >> udp4 0 0 192.168.2.1.ntp *.* >> udp4 0 0 192.168.4.18.ntp *.* >> udp4 0 0 localhost.ntp *.* >> udp4 0 0 *.ntp *.* >> udp4 0 0 localhost.49158 localhost.1022 >> udp4 0 0 localhost.1022 *.* >> udp4 0 0 localhost.49156 localhost.1023 >> udp4 0 0 localhost.1023 *.* >> udp4 0 0 *.* *.* >> udp6 0 0 *.5353 *.* >> udp4 0 0 *.mdns *.* >> udp4 0 0 localhost.netinfo-loca *.* >> icm4 0 0 *.* *.* >> icm6 0 0 *.* *.* >> >> Am I missing something ? >> I don't see anything listening on port 22, except on the local >> network >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-admin mailing list >> MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin > From andrewo at liveworld.com Fri Jun 9 14:03:30 2006 From: andrewo at liveworld.com (Andrew Oliver) Date: Fri Jun 9 14:03:38 2006 Subject: /etc/sshd_config In-Reply-To: <5B599ED8-85A8-4647-9845-A0783631E06B@mac.com> References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> <6A0B705D-7A26-4DCA-8F49-130432212FE7@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> <2790C93E-1E0A-4F1B-8715-DD9046A12033@mac.com> <5B599ED8-85A8-4647-9845-A0783631E06B@mac.com> Message-ID: On Jun 9, 2006, at 1:52 PM, Donkergroen bvba wrote: > So what purpose does ListenAddress have ? > It seems to be none ! If your machine is dual homed (e.g. it has multiple interfaces such as a public interface and a private one), you can tell sshd to listen on one address only (e.g. the private interface). By default it listens on all interfaces. This is also one of the solutions to your problem - enable sshd on the internal interface only and use a VPN connection on the public interface. You can then establish a VPN connection to the server and ssh to the private address without exposing ssh to the public side. > My problem with using the osx firewall is that it seems to apply to > all interfaces, not just the internet one. If you're using the GUI, sure. Apple's GUI manages about 0.1% of what the firewall can do. For advanced firewall management you need to either get under the hood and edit /etc/ipfilter/ipfw.conf or use some other tool for managing ipfw rules such as Firewall Builder . Andrew :) From donkergroen at mac.com Fri Jun 9 14:31:13 2006 From: donkergroen at mac.com (Donkergroen bvba) Date: Fri Jun 9 14:31:25 2006 Subject: /etc/sshd_config In-Reply-To: References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> <6A0B705D-7A26-4DCA-8F49-130432212FE7@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> <2790C93E-1E0A-4F1B-8715-DD9046A12033@mac.com> <5B599ED8-85A8-4647-9845-A0783631E06B@mac.com> Message-ID: <0F4D46D2-F588-41ED-B1A7-2CE02466FA31@mac.com> On 09 Jun 2006, at 23:03, Andrew Oliver wrote: > > On Jun 9, 2006, at 1:52 PM, Donkergroen bvba wrote: > >> So what purpose does ListenAddress have ? >> It seems to be none ! > > If your machine is dual homed (e.g. it has multiple interfaces such > as a public interface and a private one), you can tell sshd to > listen on one address only (e.g. the private interface). By default > it listens on all interfaces. that is my point. it doesn't do what the man page advocates. From leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk Fri Jun 9 15:09:42 2006 From: leeg at teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk (Graham J Lee) Date: Fri Jun 9 15:09:56 2006 Subject: /etc/sshd_config In-Reply-To: References: <20060609102843.GA1639@anthropohedron.net> <177DD2BE-CBA4-4E7D-8B1B-553BAE41ED4A@ed.ac.uk> <41616AD6-A339-4869-BD61-7159E6F71C4D@ibacom.es> <6A0B705D-7A26-4DCA-8F49-130432212FE7@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> <2790C93E-1E0A-4F1B-8715-DD9046A12033@mac.com> Message-ID: <4489F1A6.1060104@teaching.physics.ox.ac.uk> On 9/6/06 21:42, Andrew Oliver wrote: > > Your options for securing SSH are numerous. > > You could use the firewall to permit port 22 from only known/trusted IP > addresses. > You could configure sshd to only permit key-based authentication (no > password login permitted) which will prevent password compromises, > although it doesn't hide your machine from the network). > > As for why you don't see it listed when you run a netstat, that's > because SSH is managed by launchd, which spawns a sshd process when an > incoming connection starts. There's no sshd process listening when there > aren't any connections. > Another possibility would be a custom launchd wrapper which invokes /usr/libexec/tcpd instead of sshd directly. Cheers, Graham. -- Graham Lee UNIX Systems Manager, Oxford Physics Practical Course http://iamleeg.blogspot.com/ From dasturi at yahoo.com Sat Jun 10 18:08:37 2006 From: dasturi at yahoo.com (Ali Amer) Date: Sat Jun 10 18:08:43 2006 Subject: stale nfs file handles Message-ID: <20060611010837.59779.qmail@web50910.mail.yahoo.com> I am getting stale nfs file handles only for a specific user's files. I am using a mac file server (x-raid) . and all the clients are either mac or linux. The user getting the stale nfs file handle errors gets those errors erractically. ... any idea whats going on? Amer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From gordon at bivalve.net Sat Jun 10 23:05:47 2006 From: gordon at bivalve.net (Gordon Davisson) Date: Sat Jun 10 23:26:00 2006 Subject: /etc/sshd_config In-Reply-To: <200606101900.k5AJ05qe021273@slowbro.omnigroup.com> References: <200606101900.k5AJ05qe021273@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <594BDA20-2DCA-4E71-866B-6D409907798A@bivalve.net> On Jun 9, 2006, at 1:52 PM, Donkergroen bvba wrote: > So what purpose does ListenAddress have ? > It seems to be none ! Listening for ssh connections is controlled by whatever program is doing the listening. Under OS X v10.1 & 10.2, this was sshd itself, so the settings in /etc/sshd_config were followed. In v10.3, responsibility for listening was handed over to xinetd, and the listener settings were controlled by /etc/xinetd.d/ssh (although most other properties of the ssh service were still controlled by /etc/ sshd_config). In v10.4, launchd has taken over for xinetd, so the relevant settings are in /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/ssh.plist. I don't see any problem with editing this file to add a SockNodeName property to its listener, although the usual caveats about editing system files (make a backup, expect it to get clobbered random by system updates) apply. The resulting file should look a lot like this: Label com.openssh.sshd Program /usr/libexec/sshd-keygen-wrapper ProgramArguments /usr/sbin/sshd -i SessionCreate Sockets Listeners Bonjour ssh sftp-ssh SockNodeName 192.168.4.18 SockServiceName ssh StandardErrorPath /dev/null inetdCompatibility Wait ... then turn Remote Login off & back on to force lookupd to reload the file. You can use "netstat -a | grep ssh" to find out if it worked. -- Gordon Davisson From donkergroen at mac.com Sun Jun 11 07:18:55 2006 From: donkergroen at mac.com (Donkergroen bvba) Date: Sun Jun 11 07:18:57 2006 Subject: /etc/sshd_config In-Reply-To: <594BDA20-2DCA-4E71-866B-6D409907798A@bivalve.net> References: <200606101900.k5AJ05qe021273@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <594BDA20-2DCA-4E71-866B-6D409907798A@bivalve.net> Message-ID: <821636F2-F273-4744-831C-BC319DEC8BC7@mac.com> That did it, thanks. Is there a file where I can do the same for file sharing ? On 11 Jun 2006, at 08:05, Gordon Davisson wrote: > On Jun 9, 2006, at 1:52 PM, Donkergroen bvba wrote: > >> So what purpose does ListenAddress have ? >> It seems to be none ! > > Listening for ssh connections is controlled by whatever program is > doing the listening. Under OS X v10.1 & 10.2, this was sshd > itself, so the settings in /etc/sshd_config were followed. In > v10.3, responsibility for listening was handed over to xinetd, and > the listener settings were controlled by /etc/xinetd.d/ssh > (although most other properties of the ssh service were still > controlled by /etc/sshd_config). In v10.4, launchd has taken over > for xinetd, so the relevant settings are in /System/Library/ > LaunchDaemons/ssh.plist. I don't see any problem with editing this > file to add a SockNodeName property to its listener, although the > usual caveats about editing system files (make a backup, expect it > to get clobbered random by system updates) apply. The resulting > file should look a lot like this: > > > "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd"> > > > Label > com.openssh.sshd > Program > /usr/libexec/sshd-keygen-wrapper > ProgramArguments > > /usr/sbin/sshd > -i > > SessionCreate > > Sockets > > Listeners > > Bonjour > > ssh > sftp-ssh > > SockNodeName > 192.168.4.18 > SockServiceName > ssh > > > StandardErrorPath > /dev/null > inetdCompatibility > > Wait > > > > > > ... then turn Remote Login off & back on to force lookupd to reload > the file. You can use "netstat -a | grep ssh" to find out if it > worked. > > -- > Gordon Davisson > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin From ian at acces.co.jp Sun Jun 11 17:37:27 2006 From: ian at acces.co.jp (Ian Masters) Date: Sun Jun 11 17:37:59 2006 Subject: NTP Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 10/06/06 1:26, "Conrad G T Yoder" wrote: > At 6/9/06 1:07 AM -0400, Ian Masters wrote: >> >> We used to have a server xxx.xxx.xxx.100 which was one of our ntp servers. >> That server got retired. >> >> So I thought I'd add that server's ip to one of our xserves xxx.xxx.xxx.111, >> as xserves appear to be ntp servers by default. >> >> Problem is that it won't answer the ntp queries that are being thrown at it. >> Also the original ip will no longer answer ntp queries either. >> >> Any ideas what's going wrong here? Conrad, thanks for the reply. > Have you confirmed that ntpd is running? Yes 434 ?? Ss 0:00.41 ntpd -f /var/run/ntp.drift -p /var/run/ntpd.pid > Is there a firewall of any kind blocking UDP port 123? No firewall at all on that server Regards Ian Masters --------------------------------------------------------- Acces (OSD Dept)
3-5-11 Doshoumachi Chuo-ku Osaka 541-0045 Japan 06-6208-1600 (switchboard) 06-6208-1610 (switchboard) ian@acces.co.jp --------------------------------------------------------- From donmontalvo at mac.com Sun Jun 11 18:06:25 2006 From: donmontalvo at mac.com (Don Montalvo) Date: Sun Jun 11 18:06:33 2006 Subject: ARD 3.0 - Sharing Serial Numbers In-Reply-To: <200606071900.k57J05qi022864@slowbro.omnigroup.com> References: <200606071900.k57J05qi022864@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: wrote: > I am wondering if somebody can verify a feature(?) in ARD 3.0 for me >before I have to put together next year's budget. In ARD 2.x I can >share a serial number between my desktop & laptop without worrying >about it freaking out if another copy using the same serial # is >running. Can anybody tell me if this is still the case with ARD 3.0? > >Daniel that's never been possible. don -- don montalvo curmudgeon at large 917-559-5713 donmontalvo@mac.com http://donmontalvo.com From PERBIX at lmsd.org Sun Jun 11 19:24:50 2006 From: PERBIX at lmsd.org (Perbix, Michael) Date: Sun Jun 11 19:25:06 2006 Subject: ARD 3.0 - Sharing Serial Numbers References: <200606071900.k57J05qi022864@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <45440A5F9E1FC84C8224429C82ACDCED0142E0DF@MSCADMIN.lmsd.org> Actually it was possible with ARD 2.x as long as the Admin workstations were not on the same VLAN or subnet....obviously a violation of the EULA, and should not be practiced in everyday use....if you need the functionality, you should pay for the license...if you have 2 workstations, you should have 2 licenses....unless Apple specifies in the EULA that you CAN use a copy on 2 different workstations in a situation where the 2 will not be used at the same time (we have some software which has such stipulations). ARD 3 admin station, and the TASK SERVER can NOT have the same serial number....even on different subnets, the admin application will not connect to the task server...and there is no error message. Once again, the EULA most likely states, in no uncertain terms, that a seperate and valid license is needed for each and every admin workstation that the software is installed on. -Mike ------------------------------------------ Michael Perbix Lower Merion School District Telecommunications Specialist PH (610) 645-1964 Fax (610) 896-2019 -----Original Message----- From: macosx-admin-bounces@omnigroup.com on behalf of Don Montalvo Sent: Sun 6/11/2006 9:06 PM To: macosx-admin@omnigroup.com Subject: Re: ARD 3.0 - Sharing Serial Numbers wrote: > I am wondering if somebody can verify a feature(?) in ARD 3.0 for me >before I have to put together next year's budget. In ARD 2.x I can >share a serial number between my desktop & laptop without worrying >about it freaking out if another copy using the same serial # is >running. Can anybody tell me if this is still the case with ARD 3.0? > >Daniel that's never been possible. don -- don montalvo curmudgeon at large 917-559-5713 donmontalvo@mac.com http://donmontalvo.com _______________________________________________ MacOSX-admin mailing list MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin From daniel at highdesertchurch.com Mon Jun 12 08:53:25 2006 From: daniel at highdesertchurch.com (Daniel Hazelbaker) Date: Mon Jun 12 08:53:47 2006 Subject: ARD 3.0 - Sharing Serial Numbers In-Reply-To: <45440A5F9E1FC84C8224429C82ACDCED0142E0DF@MSCADMIN.lmsd.org> References: <200606071900.k57J05qi022864@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <45440A5F9E1FC84C8224429C82ACDCED0142E0DF@MSCADMIN.lmsd.org> Message-ID: Actually, it is possible even if they are on the same subnet. I do that now with my desktop and laptop. I use them both at the office and occasionally forget to quit ARD 2.x on my desktop before going off with my laptop to fix computers on the other side of the campus. For those rare times it is nice to not have to walk all the way back to my office, quit ARD and then walk back to the problem spot to continue working. This is the extent of the "multiple workstations" installation that I do. It sounds like ARD 3.x got rid of that ability though and I will have to request the extra $500 for a second copy of ARD and hope I get it approved. I don't mind spending the money, but it is hard to convince people why I am buying 2 copies of an application for myself instead of just 1. It is far easier to just buy the 1 copy and still not break the meaning of the EULA. (As I said, both machines are used by me personally and only) Anyway, thanks for the feedback everybody, Daniel On Jun 11, 2006, at 7:24 PM, Perbix, Michael wrote: > Actually it was possible with ARD 2.x as long as the Admin > workstations were not on the same VLAN or subnet....obviously a > violation of the EULA, and should not be practiced in everyday > use....if you need the functionality, you should pay for the > license...if you have 2 workstations, you should have 2 > licenses....unless Apple specifies in the EULA that you CAN use a > copy on 2 different workstations in a situation where the 2 will > not be used at the same time (we have some software which has such > stipulations). > > ARD 3 admin station, and the TASK SERVER can NOT have the same > serial number....even on different subnets, the admin application > will not connect to the task server...and there is no error message. > > Once again, the EULA most likely states, in no uncertain terms, > that a seperate and valid license is needed for each and every > admin workstation that the software is installed on. > > -Mike > > ------------------------------------------ > Michael Perbix > Lower Merion School District > Telecommunications Specialist > PH (610) 645-1964 > Fax (610) 896-2019 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: macosx-admin-bounces@omnigroup.com on behalf of Don Montalvo > Sent: Sun 6/11/2006 9:06 PM > To: macosx-admin@omnigroup.com > Subject: Re: ARD 3.0 - Sharing Serial Numbers > > wrote: > >> I am wondering if somebody can verify a feature(?) in ARD 3.0 for me >> before I have to put together next year's budget. In ARD 2.x I can >> share a serial number between my desktop & laptop without worrying >> about it freaking out if another copy using the same serial # is >> running. Can anybody tell me if this is still the case with ARD 3.0? >> >> Daniel > > that's never been possible. > > don > -- > > don montalvo > curmudgeon at large > 917-559-5713 > donmontalvo@mac.com > http://donmontalvo.com > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin > From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Mon Jun 12 11:38:40 2006 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (Roland Torres) Date: Mon Jun 12 11:39:00 2006 Subject: Can ARD 2.0 and 3.0 coexist? Message-ID: Does anyone know if the use of ARD 2.0 and 3.0 can coexist, i.e., can I use, interchangeably, both ARD 2.0 and 3.0 to access remote systems? Or does going to ARD 3.0 cause some sort of upgrade process on the destination machine, and once you go to 3.0, your 2.0 is worthless? Roland From mylists at serverlogistics.com Mon Jun 12 12:29:13 2006 From: mylists at serverlogistics.com (Aaron Faby) Date: Mon Jun 12 12:29:19 2006 Subject: Can ARD 2.0 and 3.0 coexist? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you have ARD client 2.0 on a system, you can still access it with ARD 3. I'm not sure about the other way around. Aaron On Jun 12, 2006, at 11:38 AM, Roland Torres wrote: > Does anyone know if the use of ARD 2.0 and 3.0 can coexist, i.e., > can I use, interchangeably, both ARD 2.0 and 3.0 to access remote > systems? Or does going to ARD 3.0 cause some sort of upgrade > process on the destination machine, and once you go to 3.0, your > 2.0 is worthless? > > Roland > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aaron Faby Server Logistics aaron@serverlogistics.com Phone: 888-886-4044 http://www.serverlogistics.com Fax: 888-886-4044 Apple Consultants Network Certified Member ---------------------------------------------------------------- From gms at captainnet.net Mon Jun 12 12:36:06 2006 From: gms at captainnet.net (George) Date: Mon Jun 12 13:06:46 2006 Subject: Can ARD 2.0 and 3.0 coexist? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >If you have ARD client 2.0 on a system, you can still access it with ARD 3. >I'm not sure about the other way around. I would say it's the other way around. Client 3 can be fully controlled with ARD 2. ARD 3 requires Client 3 for full functionality. > >Aaron > > >On Jun 12, 2006, at 11:38 AM, Roland Torres wrote: > >>Does anyone know if the use of ARD 2.0 and 3.0 can coexist, i.e., >>can I use, interchangeably, both ARD 2.0 and 3.0 to access remote >>systems? Or does going to ARD 3.0 cause some sort of upgrade >>process on the destination machine, and once you go to 3.0, your >>2.0 is worthless? >> >>Roland >> >>_______________________________________________ >>MacOSX-admin mailing list >>MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com >>http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Aaron Faby Server Logistics >aaron@serverlogistics.com Phone: 888-886-4044 >http://www.serverlogistics.com Fax: 888-886-4044 >Apple Consultants Network Certified Member >---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >_______________________________________________ >MacOSX-admin mailing list >MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com >http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin From mylists at serverlogistics.com Mon Jun 12 13:53:01 2006 From: mylists at serverlogistics.com (Aaron Faby) Date: Mon Jun 12 13:53:10 2006 Subject: Can ARD 2.0 and 3.0 coexist? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49E7CAAC-C594-4B0C-BA27-A7A7B22B4BD4@serverlogistics.com> I think I used the wrong term.. by "client" I meant that ARD Agent that runs on the server you want to access. By client do you mean the application that you run on your workstation/laptop/etc to access the ARD Agent? Aaron On Jun 12, 2006, at 12:36 PM, George wrote: >> If you have ARD client 2.0 on a system, you can still access it >> with ARD 3. >> I'm not sure about the other way around. > > I would say it's the other way around. > Client 3 can be fully controlled with ARD 2. ARD 3 requires Client > 3 for full functionality. > >> >> Aaron >> >> >> On Jun 12, 2006, at 11:38 AM, Roland Torres wrote: >> >>> Does anyone know if the use of ARD 2.0 and 3.0 can coexist, i.e., >>> can I use, interchangeably, both ARD 2.0 and 3.0 to access remote >>> systems? Or does going to ARD 3.0 cause some sort of upgrade >>> process on the destination machine, and once you go to 3.0, your >>> 2.0 is worthless? >>> >>> Roland >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> MacOSX-admin mailing list >>> MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com >>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> Aaron Faby Server Logistics >> aaron@serverlogistics.com Phone: 888-886-4044 >> http://www.serverlogistics.com Fax: 888-886-4044 >> Apple Consultants Network Certified Member >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-admin mailing list >> MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aaron Faby Server Logistics aaron@serverlogistics.com Phone: 888-886-4044 http://www.serverlogistics.com Fax: 888-886-4044 Apple Consultants Network Certified Member ---------------------------------------------------------------- From daniel at highdesertchurch.com Mon Jun 12 14:14:04 2006 From: daniel at highdesertchurch.com (Daniel Hazelbaker) Date: Mon Jun 12 14:14:23 2006 Subject: Starting UID Number? Message-ID: Okay, I have been searching all morning in Apple's manual's, mailing lists, etc. and I cannot find anything. I thought back in the day of 10.2 server you could set the starting (or maybe range) of UID numbers that would be used when creating new users. I cannot find any way to do this (other than manually as I go, but I fear forgetting and having to keep track of UID #'s myself). Am I missing something obvious? Daniel From cthacker at cls.ucsf.edu Tue Jun 13 09:34:17 2006 From: cthacker at cls.ucsf.edu (chris thacker) Date: Tue Jun 13 09:34:23 2006 Subject: Terminal hack Message-ID: <12000DD2-0E9E-47CF-999F-41C049C768E5@cls.ucsf.edu> for those of you who use the Terminal, here is a cool Terminal hack. It makes it so that a quick key combo drops down a Quake- style window for the Terminal. video of it in action: http://abstrakt.vade.info/wp-content/blogimages/visor.MP4 brief paragraph of instructions: http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/6/12/4291 forum where it started: http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8300945231/m/ 332004739731 ____________ Chris Thacker Campus Life Services - Information Systems University of California at San Francisco [help desk] 415 502-5511 [direct line] 415 514-3373 From cthacker at cls.ucsf.edu Tue Jun 13 10:35:57 2006 From: cthacker at cls.ucsf.edu (chris thacker) Date: Tue Jun 13 10:36:03 2006 Subject: Can ARD 2.0 and 3.0 coexist? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46AAAA81-0827-4448-8151-3C273F98CA21@cls.ucsf.edu> you can't have ARD 2 and 3 admin on the same computer. Installing ARD 3 admin wipes out ARD 2. ARD 3 can control/observe clients on 2 and upgrade them to v3 ____________ Chris Thacker Campus Life Services - Information Systems University of California at San Francisco [help desk] 415 502-5511 [direct line] 415 514-3373 On Jun 12, 2006, at 11:38 AM, Roland Torres wrote: > Does anyone know if the use of ARD 2.0 and 3.0 can coexist, i.e., > can I use, interchangeably, both ARD 2.0 and 3.0 to access remote > systems? Or does going to ARD 3.0 cause some sort of upgrade > process on the destination machine, and once you go to 3.0, your > 2.0 is worthless? > > Roland > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin From roodavis at mac.com Tue Jun 13 19:35:34 2006 From: roodavis at mac.com (Rick Davis) Date: Tue Jun 13 20:08:02 2006 Subject: Starting UID Number? In-Reply-To: <200606131900.k5DJ05qg007244@slowbro.omnigroup.com> References: <200606131900.k5DJ05qg007244@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: On Jun 13, 2006, at 3:00 PM, Daniel wrote: > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:14:04 -0700 > From: Daniel Hazelbaker > Subject: Starting UID Number? > To: Omni List > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Okay, I have been searching all morning in Apple's manual's, mailing > lists, etc. and I cannot find anything. I thought back in the day of > 10.2 server you could set the starting (or maybe range) of UID > numbers that would be used when creating new users. I cannot find > any way to do this (other than manually as I go, but I fear > forgetting and having to keep track of UID #'s myself). Am I missing > something obvious? Daniel, During an import you have the option of assigning a starting number. I generally use a spreadsheet to assign UID's either alphabetically or according to graduation year etc. I wrote a small app a couple of years ago that will then convert the spreadsheet (when saved as a tab- delimited file) into an XML file that can then be imported into WMX. You are welcome to download and use this app from http:// itsamacthing.com/downloads.html When creating individual accounts WMX will use the next available number. I don't know if there is a umask file or something that you can alter to pick the range of next available number(s), but will look around and see where this info is stored. Hope this helps. Rick Davis thePRIMAXgroup http://www.applehelp.org From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl Wed Jun 14 03:55:36 2006 From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda) Date: Wed Jun 14 04:35:03 2006 Subject: Mail.app on Mac OS X 10.3.9 *very* slow with large mailboxes. Is there a workaround? Message-ID: <62cbc2182991668a2fe0971f308a5588@rna.nl> I am running 10.3.9 still on my main system but Mail.app is hideously slow, especially when mailboxes are large. Over the last weeks it had again beome completely unusable (10min wait for an update of my INBOX). It is connecting to an IMAP server on Mac OS X 10.3.9 on a local network. I have read about Mail.app being slow on many sites, but have not found the key for this problem. Can I do anything about it, other than moving to another mail client? Thanks, G From jmaliga at pmg.tc Wed Jun 14 13:00:02 2006 From: jmaliga at pmg.tc (John Maliga) Date: Wed Jun 14 13:00:10 2006 Subject: Mail.app on Mac OS X 10.3.9 *very* slow with large mailboxes. Is there a workaround? In-Reply-To: <62cbc2182991668a2fe0971f308a5588@rna.nl> References: <62cbc2182991668a2fe0971f308a5588@rna.nl> Message-ID: <427c41d5212dc206afa3fc83be2d6c5e@pmg.tc> On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:55 AM, Gerben Wierda wrote: > I am running 10.3.9 still on my main system but Mail.app is hideously > slow, especially when mailboxes are large. Over the last weeks it had > again beome completely unusable (10min wait for an update of my > INBOX). It is connecting to an IMAP server on Mac OS X 10.3.9 on a > local network. > > I have read about Mail.app being slow on many sites, but have not > found the key for this problem. Can I do anything about it, other than > moving to another mail client? > > Thanks, > > G Really? maybe this list in an exception, but this is a perennial topic of discussion on mac lists and boards that usually includes several suggestions and eventually degrades into a "who hates mail.app more" contest. I won't go there. Have you tried the simple Mailbox-->Rebuild menu command? That's always a first step. A quick Google search next brings up many similar to http://www.hawkwings.net/2006/02/08/rebuild-your-database-and-speed-up- mailapp/ - YMMV You might also manage your email differently. The IMAP server may be the problem since it's synching all email in your InBox, Sent, Trash, and any other additional parallel "folders" you set up. You might try archiving older mail locally and keep your Inbox and Sent mail folders small. IMAP is a wonderful idea, but in real life mail clients handle it in a variety of ways, and few perfectly; and servers are designed and configured to varying degrees of IMAP-friendliness. -JM From Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl Wed Jun 14 14:35:54 2006 From: Gerben.Wierda at rna.nl (Gerben Wierda) Date: Wed Jun 14 14:36:07 2006 Subject: Mail.app on Mac OS X 10.3.9 *very* slow with large mailboxes. Is there a workaround? In-Reply-To: <427c41d5212dc206afa3fc83be2d6c5e@pmg.tc> References: <62cbc2182991668a2fe0971f308a5588@rna.nl> <427c41d5212dc206afa3fc83be2d6c5e@pmg.tc> Message-ID: On Jun 14, 2006, at 22:00, John Maliga wrote: > > > On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:55 AM, Gerben Wierda wrote: > >> I am running 10.3.9 still on my main system but Mail.app is hideously >> slow, especially when mailboxes are large. Over the last weeks it had >> again beome completely unusable (10min wait for an update of my >> INBOX). It is connecting to an IMAP server on Mac OS X 10.3.9 on a >> local network. >> >> I have read about Mail.app being slow on many sites, but have not >> found the key for this problem. Can I do anything about it, other >> than moving to another mail client? >> >> Thanks, >> >> G > > Really? maybe this list in an exception, but this is a perennial topic > of discussion on mac lists and boards that usually includes several > suggestions and eventually degrades into a "who hates mail.app more" > contest. > > I won't go there. Have you tried the simple Mailbox-->Rebuild menu > command? That's always a first step. A quick Google search next brings > up many similar to > http://www.hawkwings.net/2006/02/08/rebuild-your-database-and-speed- > up-mailapp/ - YMMV > > You might also manage your email differently. The IMAP server may be > the problem since it's synching all email in your InBox, Sent, Trash, > and any other additional parallel "folders" you set up. You might try > archiving older mail locally and keep your Inbox and Sent mail folders > small. IMAP is a wonderful idea, but in real life mail clients handle > it in a variety of ways, and few perfectly; and servers are designed > and configured to varying degrees of IMAP-friendliness. Thanks for the answer. What actually works wonders is downgrading from Mail.app 1.3.11 to Mail.app 1.3.9. That one is lightning fast even with large mailboxes (of which I have several) so it seems my IMAP Server (OS X 10.3.9) is not the problem. Mail.app 1.3.11 stalls a lot of times (looking at the activity viewer), while 1.3.9 just works. G From arogers at fergflor.k12.mo.us Thu Jun 15 05:44:49 2006 From: arogers at fergflor.k12.mo.us (Andy Rogers) Date: Thu Jun 15 05:55:05 2006 Subject: G4 running 10.3.9 Workgroup Manager In-Reply-To: <427c41d5212dc206afa3fc83be2d6c5e@pmg.tc> References: <427c41d5212dc206afa3fc83be2d6c5e@pmg.tc> Message-ID: I'm running 10.3.9 on an aging G4 tower. The tower serves as the file server and DNS for a small elementry school. I've been attempting to add 4 new user accounts through Workgroup Manager. I added the accounts and assigned them to the staff group which has a home folder, however the network homefolder is never created and the accounts do not work. I can't logon as any of the new users even though they show up in the user accounts. I've tried clicking on the "create" homefolder button and createhomedir -a from terminal. Andy From janos.lobb at yale.edu Thu Jun 15 08:14:35 2006 From: janos.lobb at yale.edu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=E1nos?=) Date: Thu Jun 15 08:14:44 2006 Subject: G4 running 10.3.9 Workgroup Manager In-Reply-To: References: <427c41d5212dc206afa3fc83be2d6c5e@pmg.tc> Message-ID: <39489A86-8689-463E-AE63-43B380130BCA@yale.edu> Look for permissions on the directory where their home folder should be. Sometimes these directories suddenly just change to a d--------- type of permission :) J?nos On Jun 15, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Andy Rogers wrote: > I'm running 10.3.9 on an aging G4 tower. The tower serves as the file > server and DNS for a small elementry school. I've been attempting > to add 4 > new user accounts through Workgroup Manager. I added the accounts and > assigned them to the staff group which has a home folder, however the > network homefolder is never created and the accounts do not work. I > can't > logon as any of the new users even though they show up in the user > accounts. I've tried clicking on the "create" homefolder button and > createhomedir -a from terminal. > > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin From arogers at fergflor.k12.mo.us Thu Jun 15 08:44:43 2006 From: arogers at fergflor.k12.mo.us (Andy Rogers) Date: Thu Jun 15 08:40:35 2006 Subject: G4 running 10.3.9 Workgroup Manager In-Reply-To: <39489A86-8689-463E-AE63-43B380130BCA@yale.edu> References: <39489A86-8689-463E-AE63-43B380130BCA@yale.edu> Message-ID: I will do that. However, do you have any ideas on why the new user account shows up in Workgroup Manager but I still recieve this error when tring to connect using one of the new accounts. "Unknown user, incorrect password, or login is disabled. Please retype the name and password or contact the server's administrator." andy J?nos on Thursday, June 15, 2006 at 10:14 AM -0600 wrote: >Look for permissions on the directory where their home folder should >be. Sometimes these directories suddenly just change to a d--------- >type of permission :) > >J?nos >On Jun 15, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Andy Rogers wrote: > >> I'm running 10.3.9 on an aging G4 tower. The tower serves as the file >> server and DNS for a small elementry school. I've been attempting >> to add 4 >> new user accounts through Workgroup Manager. I added the accounts and >> assigned them to the staff group which has a home folder, however the >> network homefolder is never created and the accounts do not work. I >> can't >> logon as any of the new users even though they show up in the user >> accounts. I've tried clicking on the "create" homefolder button and >> createhomedir -a from terminal. >> >> Andy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MacOSX-admin mailing list >> MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com >> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin > > Andy Rogers From daniel at highdesertchurch.com Thu Jun 15 09:13:08 2006 From: daniel at highdesertchurch.com (Daniel Hazelbaker) Date: Thu Jun 15 09:13:29 2006 Subject: G4 running 10.3.9 Workgroup Manager In-Reply-To: References: <39489A86-8689-463E-AE63-43B380130BCA@yale.edu> Message-ID: <1EDCB718-6D3A-42FB-9240-8FCF31E80CF2@highdesertchurch.com> Log into the server and open Terminal. Run the command: finger shortusername and see if it finds the user. If not, then the user does not actually exist, or at least not in a usable fashion. If it does exist then double check the obvious things like the password, account is enabled, etc. Daniel On Jun 15, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Andy Rogers wrote: > I will do that. > > However, do you have any ideas on why the new user account shows up in > Workgroup Manager but I still recieve this error when tring to connect > using one of the new accounts. "Unknown user, incorrect password, > or login > is disabled. Please retype the name and password or contact the > server's > administrator." > > andy > > J?nos on Thursday, June 15, 2006 at 10:14 AM > -0600 > wrote: >> Look for permissions on the directory where their home folder should >> be. Sometimes these directories suddenly just change to a d--------- >> type of permission :) >> >> J?nos >> On Jun 15, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Andy Rogers wrote: >> >>> I'm running 10.3.9 on an aging G4 tower. The tower serves as the >>> file >>> server and DNS for a small elementry school. I've been attempting >>> to add 4 >>> new user accounts through Workgroup Manager. I added the accounts >>> and >>> assigned them to the staff group which has a home folder, however >>> the >>> network homefolder is never created and the accounts do not work. I >>> can't >>> logon as any of the new users even though they show up in the user >>> accounts. I've tried clicking on the "create" homefolder button and >>> createhomedir -a from terminal. >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> MacOSX-admin mailing list >>> MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com >>> http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin >> >> > > > > Andy Rogers > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin > From cthacker at cls.ucsf.edu Fri Jun 16 12:07:47 2006 From: cthacker at cls.ucsf.edu (chris thacker) Date: Fri Jun 16 12:07:52 2006 Subject: .inetloc server favorite files Message-ID: <449C1C77-695F-44EB-9E0A-BFA40C130821@cls.ucsf.edu> Can someone explain to me exactly how these files work? If I create a server favorite, it creates a file in my Favorites folder called servername.inetloc I can't open and view this with BBEdit, it gives an error. If I copy this file to another computer, it works (shows up in their server favorites list) but it's greyed out, yet you can still click on it and it works. Anyone know why it's greyed out? Is the data for server favorites kept anywhere else? So if I want to give users the same favorite, can I just copy this server.inetloc file to their favorites folder and be done with it? Thanks, Chris ____________ Chris Thacker Campus Life Services - Information Systems University of California at San Francisco [help desk] 415 502-5511 [direct line] 415 514-3373 From mike at pinataperspective.com Mon Jun 26 11:43:28 2006 From: mike at pinataperspective.com (Mike Friedman) Date: Mon Jun 26 11:58:33 2006 Subject: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP Message-ID: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> Can anyone recommend a web stats program that supports SFTP directly? A client of mine has a web server at a web hosting company (across the country) to which I have limited access. Only SFTP is enabled so I'm looking for a web statistics program that can SFTP the files and then run reports against them locally. Please feel free to reply to me off list. Thanks. ======================================== "I was not always a bag lady, you know. I used to be a creative consultant. For big companies! Who do you think thought up the color scheme for Howard Johnson's? At the time, no one was using orange and aqua in the same room together. With fried clams." --Trudy (Lily Tomlin) from "The Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe" Mike Friedman San Francisco, CA From shoop at iwiring.net Mon Jun 26 13:10:35 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Mon Jun 26 13:11:07 2006 Subject: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> Message-ID: At 11:43 AM -0700 6/26/06, Mike Friedman wrote: >Can anyone recommend a web stats program that supports SFTP >directly? A client of mine has a web server at a web hosting company >(across the country) to which I have limited access. Only SFTP is >enabled so I'm looking for a web statistics program that can SFTP >the files and then run reports against them locally. I'm not sure what you're asking here. If you want stats on SFTP, well that's not a webstat thing. If you want to generate web stat reports you can do that from anywhere, all you need is the http log file. So you could sftp it to your local machine and analyze it there, for instance. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From mike at pinataperspective.com Mon Jun 26 15:01:50 2006 From: mike at pinataperspective.com (Mike Friedman) Date: Mon Jun 26 15:02:04 2006 Subject: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> Message-ID: I want a web stats program that can be run by a novice user and will download the web logs via SFTP and then run reports against them. I'm not the end user here, or I wouldn't be asking. The goal is for this to be as simple as possible for the end user. On Jun 26, 2006, at 1:10 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > At 11:43 AM -0700 6/26/06, Mike Friedman wrote: >> Can anyone recommend a web stats program that supports SFTP >> directly? A client of mine has a web server at a web hosting >> company (across the country) to which I have limited access. Only >> SFTP is enabled so I'm looking for a web statistics program that >> can SFTP the files and then run reports against them locally. > > I'm not sure what you're asking here. > > If you want stats on SFTP, well that's not a webstat thing. > > If you want to generate web stat reports you can do that from > anywhere, all you need is the http log file. So you could sftp it > to your local machine and analyze it there, for instance. > -- > > -dhan > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Dan Shoop AIM: > iWiring > Systems & Networks Architect http:// > www.ustsvs.com/ > shoop@iwiring.net http:// > www.iwiring.net/ > 1-714-363-1174 > > pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 > DE0B > > iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and > Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. ========================================= "I'm porous with travel fever, but you know I'm so glad to be on my own. Still somehow the slightest touch of a stranger can set up trembling in my bones. I know, no one's gonna show me everything, we all come and go alone. Each so deep and superficial, between the forceps and the stone." --Joni Mitchell, "Hejira", 1976 From nigel at cofa.unsw.edu.au Mon Jun 26 16:34:31 2006 From: nigel at cofa.unsw.edu.au (Nigel Kersten) Date: Mon Jun 26 16:34:42 2006 Subject: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> Message-ID: <6FF3D895-238E-4593-94AD-84B0CF8450E3@cofa.unsw.edu.au> On 27/06/2006, at 8:01 AM, Mike Friedman wrote: > I want a web stats program that can be run by a novice user and > will download the web logs via SFTP and then run reports against > them. I'm not the end user here, or I wouldn't be asking. The goal > is for this to be as simple as possible for the end user. If the user is just downloading the logs to analyze locally, then why not just make the logs available to them via SFTP? When you say "web stats program" I think of something that performs the analysis server-side... like Awstats etc. -- Nigel Kersten [Senior Technical Officer] College of Fine Arts, University of NSW, Australia. CRICOS Provider Code: 00098G From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Mon Jun 26 16:53:13 2006 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Mon Jun 26 16:53:17 2006 Subject: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <6FF3D895-238E-4593-94AD-84B0CF8450E3@cofa.unsw.edu.au> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <6FF3D895-238E-4593-94AD-84B0CF8450E3@cofa.unsw.edu.au> Message-ID: On Jun 26, 2006, at 5:34 PM, Nigel Kersten wrote: > > On 27/06/2006, at 8:01 AM, Mike Friedman wrote: > >> I want a web stats program that can be run by a novice user and >> will download the web logs via SFTP and then run reports against >> them. I'm not the end user here, or I wouldn't be asking. The >> goal is for this to be as simple as possible for the end user. > > If the user is just downloading the logs to analyze locally, then > why not just make the logs available to them via SFTP? > > When you say "web stats program" I think of something that performs > the analysis server-side... like Awstats etc. It sounds to me like the OP wants a webstats program that has built in functionality to grab the logs over "sftp" in order to make it as simple as possible for the actual user of the SW, who is not the OP, but an associate of some sort of the OP. Chad From mike at pinataperspective.com Mon Jun 26 16:57:46 2006 From: mike at pinataperspective.com (Mike Friedman) Date: Mon Jun 26 16:57:52 2006 Subject: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <6FF3D895-238E-4593-94AD-84B0CF8450E3@cofa.unsw.edu.au> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <6FF3D895-238E-4593-94AD-84B0CF8450E3@cofa.unsw.edu.au> Message-ID: <3FD818BC-E839-4FFD-8A95-628E7E9D46FC@pinataperspective.com> She's not a very savvy user and I wanted to avoid a 2nd step if possible. On Jun 26, 2006, at 4:34 PM, Nigel Kersten wrote: > > On 27/06/2006, at 8:01 AM, Mike Friedman wrote: > >> I want a web stats program that can be run by a novice user and >> will download the web logs via SFTP and then run reports against >> them. I'm not the end user here, or I wouldn't be asking. The >> goal is for this to be as simple as possible for the end user. > > If the user is just downloading the logs to analyze locally, then > why not just make the logs available to them via SFTP? > > When you say "web stats program" I think of something that performs > the analysis server-side... like Awstats etc. > > -- > Nigel Kersten [Senior Technical Officer] > College of Fine Arts, University of NSW, Australia. > CRICOS Provider Code: 00098G > > > ========================================= "See, the human mind is like a...pinata. Break it open, and there's a lot of surprises inside. Once you get the pinata perspective, you see that losing your mind can be a peak experience." --Trudy (Lily Tomlin) from "The Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe" Mike Friedman San Francisco, CA From nigel at cofa.unsw.edu.au Mon Jun 26 17:04:26 2006 From: nigel at cofa.unsw.edu.au (Nigel Kersten) Date: Mon Jun 26 17:04:35 2006 Subject: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <6FF3D895-238E-4593-94AD-84B0CF8450E3@cofa.unsw.edu.au> Message-ID: <69AA85BF-6BA6-4F65-8E10-8F13F5E6E737@cofa.unsw.edu.au> On 27/06/2006, at 9:53 AM, Chad Leigh wrote: > It sounds to me like the OP wants a webstats program that has built > in functionality to grab the logs over "sftp" in order to make it > as simple as possible for the actual user of the SW, who is not the > OP, but an associate of some sort of the OP. But that's what I don't get... :) If you want to make the logs available via SFTP, then make them available via SFTP.... That functionality is completely orthogonal to a web stats program. -- Nigel Kersten [Senior Technical Officer] College of Fine Arts, University of NSW, Australia. CRICOS Provider Code: 00098G From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Mon Jun 26 17:47:34 2006 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Mon Jun 26 17:47:43 2006 Subject: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <69AA85BF-6BA6-4F65-8E10-8F13F5E6E737@cofa.unsw.edu.au> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <6FF3D895-238E-4593-94AD-84B0CF8450E3@cofa.unsw.edu.au> <69AA85BF-6BA6-4F65-8E10-8F13F5E6E737@cofa.unsw.edu.au> Message-ID: On Jun 26, 2006, at 6:04 PM, Nigel Kersten wrote: > > On 27/06/2006, at 9:53 AM, Chad Leigh wrote: > >> It sounds to me like the OP wants a webstats program that has >> built in functionality to grab the logs over "sftp" in order to >> make it as simple as possible for the actual user of the SW, who >> is not the OP, but an associate of some sort of the OP. > > But that's what I don't get... :) > > If you want to make the logs available via SFTP, then make them > available via SFTP.... That functionality is completely orthogonal > to a web stats program. No its not. The logs are already available by sftp. The user who wants to analyze them has to go grab them. The OP does not want to make them available through the webstats SW, they want to grab the logs. Makes perfect sense if you have a webstats program to allow both local and remote access to web logs. Kind of like the idea of a web design program also having a publish feature built in to do ftp/sftp for you Chad From marcus.roberts at gmail.com Mon Jun 26 23:37:41 2006 From: marcus.roberts at gmail.com (Marcus Roberts) Date: Mon Jun 26 23:37:47 2006 Subject: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <6FF3D895-238E-4593-94AD-84B0CF8450E3@cofa.unsw.edu.au> <69AA85BF-6BA6-4F65-8E10-8F13F5E6E737@cofa.unsw.edu.au> Message-ID: <4e0e8ed70606262337s601a4aa2j59a50aadd9155629@mail.gmail.com> On 6/27/06, Chad Leigh wrote: > > No its not. The logs are already available by sftp. The user who > wants to analyze them has to go grab them. The OP does not want to > make them available through the webstats SW, they want to grab the > logs. Makes perfect sense if you have a webstats program to allow > both local and remote access to web logs. Exactly. If you look at www.summary.net for example, you can enter the SFTP login and password into the web stats configuration, and it will automatically download the stats for you. The last time I used Summary it only used FTP, but I just browsed the manual and it says it supports SFTP for the Mac. Google are handing out accounts for their Analytics package quite quickly now - I waited a couple of months for my first one, but it took about two days to get one for another company. That has minimal setup and pretty good reporting, and is easy to use for the novice. From gkreme at gmail.com Tue Jun 27 00:50:18 2006 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Tue Jun 27 00:50:24 2006 Subject: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> Message-ID: On 26 Jun 2006, at 16:01 , Mike Friedman wrote: > I want a web stats program that can be run by a novice user and > will download the web logs via SFTP and then run reports against > them. I'm not the end user here, or I wouldn't be asking. The goal > is for this to be as simple as possible for the end user. Erm.. normally webstats programs are installed on the webserver... If you wanted to run them locally... erm... Ah.... Nope, sorry, got nothing at novice level. [ And don't TOFU post ] -- "I program Windows - of course it isn't safe." - Meski From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Tue Jun 27 06:00:22 2006 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Tue Jun 27 06:00:35 2006 Subject: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> Message-ID: <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> On Jun 27, 2006, at 1:50 AM, Google Kreme wrote: > On 26 Jun 2006, at 16:01 , Mike Friedman wrote: >> I want a web stats program that can be run by a novice user and >> will download the web logs via SFTP and then run reports against >> them. I'm not the end user here, or I wouldn't be asking. The >> goal is for this to be as simple as possible for the end user. > > Erm.. normally webstats programs are installed on the webserver... Lots of them are runnable on the client and you copy the logs down. Perfectly normal. They produce all sorts of fancy reports that you cannot produce on the server unless you do it in html form. > > If you wanted to run them locally... erm... Ah.... > > Nope, sorry, got nothing at novice level. > > [ And don't TOFU post ] nothing more annoying than a supposed top-posting police Chad From david at idiomatrix.com Tue Jun 27 08:37:03 2006 From: david at idiomatrix.com (David Herren) Date: Tue Jun 27 08:37:05 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> I prefer top posting--it's easier to read the new information and as long as the subject line is meaningful, easier to follow. I'm looking for deputies in my new anti-bottom posting police. On Jun 27, 2006, at 9:00 AM, Chad Leigh wrote: > nothing more annoying than a supposed top-posting police /david -- david herren - shoreham, vt us na terra solsys orionarm As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. - H.L. Mencken 1920 From scott_ribe at killerbytes.com Tue Jun 27 10:18:29 2006 From: scott_ribe at killerbytes.com (Scott Ribe) Date: Tue Jun 27 10:18:43 2006 Subject: SSH public-key authentication Message-ID: I'm having a problem getting public-key authentication to work on 1 account on 1 machine only. I originally set this up for 2 accounts each on about 30 machines. It didn't work on 4 of them. Poking around, I discovered that they had a pre-existing user .ssh directory with incorrect permissions. I changed that (to user:user rwx------). Now, 3 of them work and there's just one that doesn't. From batch mode, I get the following error, which tells me that public-key encryption is enabled: " Permission denied (gssapi-with-mic,publickey,gssapi,password,keyboard-interactive)." The authorized_keys file contains only the 1 key I put there, and is the exact same file that is working elsewhere, with the same permissions and proper ownership. There is nothing else in the user's .ssh directory, no .something file with some bizarre options. SSH public-key authentication is working fine to another account on the same machine, so SSH is enabled and working, and the network connection is OK, and the "from ..." option in the key should not be mucking things up. Both machines are on the same LAN and same subnet. Password authentication works. What else should I look at??? -- Scott Ribe scott_ribe@killerbytes.com http://www.killerbytes.com/ (303) 722-0567 voice From scott_ribe at killerbytes.com Tue Jun 27 10:21:24 2006 From: scott_ribe at killerbytes.com (Scott Ribe) Date: Tue Jun 27 10:21:29 2006 Subject: SSH public-key authentication In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Got carried away with all the details and forgot the basics: 10.4.6, target machine being logged into is regular OS X, machine that I need to auto-connect is running OS X server. -- Scott Ribe scott_ribe@killerbytes.com http://www.killerbytes.com/ (303) 722-0567 voice From janos.lobb at yale.edu Tue Jun 27 12:36:49 2006 From: janos.lobb at yale.edu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=E1nos?=) Date: Tue Jun 27 12:37:31 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> Message-ID: > As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more > and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and > glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's > desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright > moron. > > - H.L. Mencken 1920 David, I am here in the US from 1988. Since that I have been seeing just "downright moron"s THERE. Was it any different at earlier times ? J?nos P.S. Are you still in Vermont ? I heard some news that Vermont will succeed from the US ? I hope ski lift prices will stabilize after such event :) ======================== "I think I may need a bathroom break? Is this possible?" --G.W.Bush http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4249646.stm From taba29292 at yahoo.co.in Tue Jun 27 12:36:15 2006 From: taba29292 at yahoo.co.in (taba29292) Date: Tue Jun 27 13:10:36 2006 Subject: Hard rive for backup fo Mac mini Message-ID: <5072559.post@talk.nabble.com> Hi all, I want to purchase a hard drive for my mac mini (MAC OS 10.3) where I can back up the data from the database. I wanted some suggestions from you guys like what should I go for. 1) An external hard drive (firewire) or an intenal hard drive. Provided I will be using this hard drive only for media(data) backup. I have around 185 Mb data daily being backed up on my hard drive at present. Please suggest me which is the best option for me. Regards, Tausif -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Hard-rive-for-backup-fo-Mac-mini-tf1857420.html#a5072559 Sent from the OmniGroup - MacOSX-Admin forum at Nabble.com. From charles.dyer at gmail.com Tue Jun 27 14:36:21 2006 From: charles.dyer at gmail.com (Charles Dyer) Date: Tue Jun 27 14:36:29 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> Message-ID: <9EE464D3-787F-4A4D-8400-D45F4896128A@gmail.com> On 27 Jun, 2006, at 15:36, J?nos wrote: >> As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, >> more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great >> and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their >> heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a >> downright moron. >> >> - H.L. Mencken 1920 > > David, > > I am here in the US from 1988. Since that I have been seeing just > "downright moron"s THERE. I beg to to differ. Bush 1 was a very bright man. Not the brightest man to ever be in the White House (that would probably be Carter or Nixon) but certainly not the biggest idiot by a long way. Slick Willy was at least as smart as Bush 1, probably smarter. Boy George is no mental giant, but he's not as stupid as he's painted, either. He's not even the most stupid prominent Republican. Or even the stupidest Republican president. (Though it's a close call between him and Ronnie Raygun...) > > Was it any different at earlier times ? No significant difference. From scott_ribe at killerbytes.com Tue Jun 27 15:59:28 2006 From: scott_ribe at killerbytes.com (Scott Ribe) Date: Tue Jun 27 15:59:49 2006 Subject: Monitoring applications for crashes, who else wants it? Message-ID: I'm trying to automate a whole lot of log gathering and application monitoring. Part of that is that I want certain crash logs. More than that, I want to build a notification mechanism that will alert me to certain crashes. I've been looking at shell scripting and Ruby and this doesn't seem quite possible, almost but not quite. I don't want to muck around with input managers and injecting code. The missing piece is a command line utility that, given a pid, will monitor the process and report when (and preferably how) the process ends. I could do something with ps and grep looping periodically, but, gross... So I wrote the missing piece. I call it "waitany". Sort of like wait(2), but it will monitor any process (permissions allowing), and when that process ends, report whether the process exited normally and its status code, or whether the process was terminated by a signal and the signal number. Is this generally useful enough to go to the effort of sharing it? The source is small (< 1 page) and quite simple and I'd publish it, so for anybody concerned about security/stability you can see what it does and build it for yourself. -- Scott Ribe scott_ribe@killerbytes.com http://www.killerbytes.com/ (303) 722-0567 voice From shoop at iwiring.net Tue Jun 27 16:02:18 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Tue Jun 27 16:03:01 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <9EE464D3-787F-4A4D-8400-D45F4896128A@gmail.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <9EE464D3-787F-4A4D-8400-D45F4896128A@gmail.com> Message-ID: At 5:36 PM -0400 6/27/06, Charles Dyer wrote: >On 27 Jun, 2006, at 15:36, J?nos wrote: > >>>As democracy is perfected, the office of >>>president represents, more and more closely, >>>the inner soul of the people. On some great >>>and glorious day the plain folks of the land >>>will reach their heart's desire at last and >>>the White House will be adorned by a downright >>>moron. >>> >>>- H.L. Mencken 1920 >> >>David, >> >>I am here in the US from 1988. Since that I >>have been seeing just "downright moron"s THERE. > >I beg to to differ. Bush 1 was a very bright >man. Not the brightest man to ever be in the >White House (that would probably be Carter or >Nixon) but certainly not the biggest idiot by a >long way. Slick Willy was at least as smart as >Bush 1, probably smarter. Boy George is no >mental giant, but he's not as stupid as he's >painted, either. He's not even the most stupid >prominent Republican. Or even the stupidest >Republican president. (Though it's a close call >between him and Ronnie Raygun...) But you don't have to be smart to be president. Even Jimmy Carter asked his daughter what he should do. ;) Reagan was right in that if his staff couldn't express a concept on a 3x5 index card that they hadn't reduced the concept to a understandable enough level or presidential management. :) -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From shoop at iwiring.net Tue Jun 27 16:02:47 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Tue Jun 27 16:03:36 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> Message-ID: At 11:37 AM -0400 6/27/06, David Herren wrote: >I prefer top posting--it's easier to read the new information and as >long as the subject line is meaningful, easier to follow. I'm >looking for deputies in my new anti-bottom posting police. Your opinion here doesn't count. The RFC's direct you otherwise. -- -dhan A: Yes. | Q: Are you sure? | | A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. | | | Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Tue Jun 27 16:08:19 2006 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Tue Jun 27 16:08:24 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> Message-ID: On Jun 27, 2006, at 5:02 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > At 11:37 AM -0400 6/27/06, David Herren wrote: >> I prefer top posting--it's easier to read the new information and >> as long as the subject line is meaningful, easier to follow. I'm >> looking for deputies in my new anti-bottom posting police. > > Your opinion here doesn't count. The RFC's direct you otherwise. Which RFC Dan? And is it one that actually was accepted and "approved"? Anyone can write an RFC Chad From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Tue Jun 27 16:10:32 2006 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Tue Jun 27 16:10:36 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> Message-ID: On Jun 27, 2006, at 5:02 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > At 11:37 AM -0400 6/27/06, David Herren wrote: >> I prefer top posting--it's easier to read the new information and >> as long as the subject line is meaningful, easier to follow. I'm >> looking for deputies in my new anti-bottom posting police. > > Your opinion here doesn't count. The RFC's direct you otherwise. > -- > > -dhan > > A: Yes. > | Q: Are you sure? > | | A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. > | | | Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? This is a dumb example as no one reads it that way. People read each email as it comes so the flow of conversation is not reversed. Chad From jwelch at bynkii.com Tue Jun 27 16:26:56 2006 From: jwelch at bynkii.com (John C. Welch) Date: Tue Jun 27 16:27:08 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 6/27/06 18:02, "Dan Shoop" wrote: > But you don't have to be smart to be president. > Even Jimmy Carter asked his daughter what he > should do. ;) In Carter's defense, they don't hand out degrees from Annapolis in Nuclear Physics to idiots, nor did you work directly under Hyman Rickover as a Nuclear Engineer on a sub unless you were astoundingly smart and disciplined. Carter may have been na?ve, but he is the absolute opposite of "not smart" -- John C. Welch Writer/Analyst Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions jwelch@bynkii.com From scott_ribe at killerbytes.com Tue Jun 27 20:17:14 2006 From: scott_ribe at killerbytes.com (Scott Ribe) Date: Tue Jun 27 20:17:24 2006 Subject: Getting machine name Message-ID: How the heck do I get the machine name, as set in Sharing Preferences, from the command line? I feel like this should be obvious, but I'm coming up empty-handed after a lot of searching. -- Scott Ribe scott_ribe@killerbytes.com http://www.killerbytes.com/ (303) 722-0567 voice From nigel at cofa.unsw.edu.au Tue Jun 27 20:27:01 2006 From: nigel at cofa.unsw.edu.au (Nigel Kersten) Date: Tue Jun 27 20:27:11 2006 Subject: Getting machine name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69BC13E0-D71B-446C-891F-5C9A94A419C6@cofa.unsw.edu.au> On 28/06/2006, at 1:17 PM, Scott Ribe wrote: > How the heck do I get the machine name, as set in Sharing > Preferences, from > the command line? I feel like this should be obvious, but I'm > coming up > empty-handed after a lot of searching. scutil --get ComputerName It's not that obvious. :) -- Nigel Kersten [Senior Technical Officer] College of Fine Arts, University of NSW, Australia. CRICOS Provider Code: 00098G From conrad at yoders.org Tue Jun 27 20:36:18 2006 From: conrad at yoders.org (Conrad G T Yoder) Date: Tue Jun 27 20:36:25 2006 Subject: Getting machine name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6/27/06 11:17 PM -0400, Scott Ribe wrote: > > How the heck do I get the machine name, as set in Sharing Preferences, from > the command line? I feel like this should be obvious, but I'm coming up > empty-handed after a lot of searching. uname -n -Conrad -- Suspicion breeds confidence. From dave.xadmin at alfordmedia.com Tue Jun 27 22:22:04 2006 From: dave.xadmin at alfordmedia.com (Dave Pooser) Date: Tue Jun 27 22:22:10 2006 Subject: Getting machine name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > uname -n That gets the hostname, which is different from the Sharing Preferences name: [dave:~] dpooser% scutil --get ComputerName Pooserville [dave:~] dpooser% uname -n dave.pooserville.com [dave:~] dpooser% -- Dave Pooser, ACSA, CCNA Manager of Information Services Alford Media http://www.alfordmedia.com From gkreme at gmail.com Wed Jun 28 02:55:13 2006 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Wed Jun 28 02:55:44 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> Message-ID: On 27 Jun 2006, at 09:37 , David Herren wrote: > On Jun 27, 2006, at 9:00 AM, Chad Leigh wrote: >> nothing more annoying than a supposed top-posting police > > I prefer top posting--it's easier to read the new information and > as long as the subject line is meaningful, easier to follow. I'm > looking for deputies in my new anti-bottom posting police. Bottom posting is not the answer either. The only correct way to post to mailing lists is to trim as much of the original post as possible and then add your comments inline. Unless you are only commenting on one thing in a post, or on a short post, in which case proper in-line posting LOOKS like bottom posting. Having "me too!" at the top of a 1500 line digest is no better or worse than having it at the bottom. -- No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it. From conrad at yoders.org Wed Jun 28 04:45:22 2006 From: conrad at yoders.org (Conrad G T Yoder) Date: Wed Jun 28 04:45:29 2006 Subject: Getting machine name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6/28/06 12:03 AM -0400, Dave Pooser wrote: > >> uname -n > > That gets the hostname, which is different from the Sharing Preferences > name: > > [dave:~] dpooser% scutil --get ComputerName > Pooserville > [dave:~] dpooser% uname -n > dave.pooserville.com > [dave:~] dpooser% So it is - forgot about that distinction. Thanks for the reminder. -Conrad -- Regret nothing - Report everything. From bsilver at chrononomicon.com Wed Jun 28 07:17:17 2006 From: bsilver at chrononomicon.com (Bart Silverstrim) Date: Wed Jun 28 07:17:36 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> Message-ID: On Jun 27, 2006, at 7:10 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: > > On Jun 27, 2006, at 5:02 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > >> At 11:37 AM -0400 6/27/06, David Herren wrote: >>> I prefer top posting--it's easier to read the new information and as >>> long as the subject line is meaningful, easier to follow. I'm >>> looking for deputies in my new anti-bottom posting police. >> >> Your opinion here doesn't count. The RFC's direct you otherwise. >> -- >> >> -dhan >> >> A: Yes. >> | Q: Are you sure? >> | | A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >> | | | Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? > > This is a dumb example as no one reads it that way. People read each > email as it comes so the flow of conversation is not reversed. First, this conversation is going to degenerate very very quickly, so brace for the bitching. Second, speaking for everyone? I hate top posting because it's redundant FLUFF. Pure brain farting. People puking a thought as quickly as possible while being too f*ing lazy to edit their words. No crafting email, just belching out a quick thought. Why? When I get the top posted pieces of crap, here's what I see: ******************* LATEST TWO CENTS GO HERE closing witty signature HEADERS FLUFF I ALREADY READ BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH witty signature HEADERS FLUFF FLUFF YET MORE STUFF ALREADY IN MY INBOX OR SENT ITEMS BLAH BLAH YET MORE STUFF ALREADY IN A MESSAGE IN MY MAILBOX HEIRARCHY witty signature HEADERS STUFF I SAW PREVIOUSLY...can't people use search in their mail client? BLAH BLAH same damn signature that was left in two embedded mails ago ******************* So you get a situation where you have redundant mails stored in your inbox or trash or sent items because the material is getting repeated and re-embedded over and over. Worse, because of lazy editing, what the hell are your 2 cents exactly applying to? The only reason I'd have to dig through previous crap is because I didn't know what the hell you're referring to! It's not my fault. It's because you suck at properly communicating your thoughts! I can't help but wonder how many books top posters read. Top posted mails are out of order logically, headers interrupting the flow of thoughts, the signature periodically popped into the email...I know who you are, why do I need to see that twenty time? What ever happened to crafting emails? Apparently people are too lazy to clean up email or express themselves in a logical or consistent manner. The only time I top-post is when I am doing the equivalent of dropping a memo in front of someone and saying, "take a look!", and I want them to view the message without editing. Otherwise, it's just logical to have He said I replied his point counterpoint And not, I replied counterpoint He said his point -Bart From bsilver at chrononomicon.com Wed Jun 28 07:31:24 2006 From: bsilver at chrononomicon.com (Bart Silverstrim) Date: Wed Jun 28 07:31:34 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> Message-ID: <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> On Jun 28, 2006, at 10:19 AM, Chad Leigh wrote: > > On Jun 28, 2006, at 8:17 AM, Bart Silverstrim wrote: > >> Top posted mails are out of order logically > > > No they aren't. Not the way they are read You mean like...a chat program? Where your text is appended to the end...the bottom? Text should be inlined as a response to a specific thought in a crafted email, not belched on top because someone is too lazy to trim the rest of the cruft. If you're only reading the latest part of the "conversation" and you remember what was already said, why leave that crap in each message so it keeps growing larger and larger? If you need to refer to previous information it should already be in messages in your sent items or some other folder. Use your mail's search function to find it. Quit repeating the same drivel over and over; it's ridiculous to have 80 lines of crap just so someone can fart out 2 lines of their own thought at the top and the previous 80 lines of crap are already stored in my sent items from just being in the conversation. How having everything top-posted makes logical sense *as a conversation* I'll never know. I don't think they read comics or novels. In truth, I think they top post because they're too lazy to edit and treat email as little more than a broken chat client; ironically, chat puts their text at the bottom of the conversation as an appended text more often than not, so it almost does read as a chronologically correct conversation, unlike the regurgitated and churned up crap that results from top-posting messages through an exchange server! -Bart From scott_ribe at killerbytes.com Wed Jun 28 07:41:31 2006 From: scott_ribe at killerbytes.com (Scott Ribe) Date: Wed Jun 28 07:41:37 2006 Subject: Getting machine name In-Reply-To: <69BC13E0-D71B-446C-891F-5C9A94A419C6@cofa.unsw.edu.au> Message-ID: > scutil --get ComputerName > > It's not that obvious. :) Thanks. "System Configuration" and "ComputerName" were 2 terms I never thought to try in apropos. I won't bore you with an enumeration of how many other terms I slogged through... -- Scott Ribe scott_ribe@killerbytes.com http://www.killerbytes.com/ (303) 722-0567 voice From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Wed Jun 28 09:43:52 2006 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Wed Jun 28 09:44:08 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> Message-ID: <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> On Jun 28, 2006, at 8:31 AM, Bart Silverstrim wrote: > > On Jun 28, 2006, at 10:19 AM, Chad Leigh wrote: > >> >> On Jun 28, 2006, at 8:17 AM, Bart Silverstrim wrote: >> >>> Top posted mails are out of order logically >> >> >> No they aren't. Not the way they are read > > You mean like...a chat program? Do note, Bart, that I sent the above to you privately, off list. Responding in a public forum is VERY RUDE. Not that I had nothing to hide, just trying to not perpetuate the thread. Chad > > Where your text is appended to the end...the bottom? > > Text should be inlined as a response to a specific thought in a > crafted email, not belched on top because someone is too lazy to > trim the rest of the cruft. If you're only reading the latest part > of the "conversation" and you remember what was already said, why > leave that crap in each message so it keeps growing larger and larger? > > If you need to refer to previous information it should already be > in messages in your sent items or some other folder. Use your > mail's search function to find it. Quit repeating the same drivel > over and over; it's ridiculous to have 80 lines of crap just so > someone can fart out 2 lines of their own thought at the top and > the previous 80 lines of crap are already stored in my sent items > from just being in the conversation. > > How having everything top-posted makes logical sense *as a > conversation* I'll never know. I don't think they read comics or > novels. In truth, I think they top post because they're too lazy > to edit and treat email as little more than a broken chat client; > ironically, chat puts their text at the bottom of the conversation > as an appended text more often than not, so it almost does read as > a chronologically correct conversation, unlike the regurgitated and > churned up crap that results from top-posting messages through an > exchange server! > > -Bart > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin From bsilver at chrononomicon.com Wed Jun 28 10:04:35 2006 From: bsilver at chrononomicon.com (Bart Silverstrim) Date: Wed Jun 28 10:04:46 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <476431c0df9d2f470f346192c1ac11e2@chrononomicon.com> On Jun 28, 2006, at 12:43 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: > > On Jun 28, 2006, at 8:31 AM, Bart Silverstrim wrote: > >> >> On Jun 28, 2006, at 10:19 AM, Chad Leigh wrote: >> >>> >>> On Jun 28, 2006, at 8:17 AM, Bart Silverstrim wrote: >>> >>>> Top posted mails are out of order logically >>> >>> >>> No they aren't. Not the way they are read >> >> You mean like...a chat program? > > Do note, Bart, that I sent the above to you privately, off list. > Responding in a public forum is VERY RUDE. Not that I had nothing to > hide, just trying to not perpetuate the thread. I did note it; the message was short, and nothing seemed to be overly personal. The counterpoint I made was also for note to someone else on this list, so I sent it also here since it wasn't a book-length piece and the majority of the group isn't whining about the OT nature yet. Interesting that you still didn't bother trimming the rest of the message again, though, and not actually respond to the points and then critique my email netiquette. Seeing that you sound rather sensitive to it, though, I won't keep this on the list, since A) it'll fizzle quickly anyway and B) soon the listmoms will get tizzed shortly before it fizzles anyway and C) no matter what, you're not going to concede any points or ideas, most likely I won't either or will only in certain circumstances, and in the end the top posters will still continue their crusade to piss off the inline-repliers, so this will be little more than an intellectual pissing contest that ends in a draw of "we agree to disagree" and life goes on. Does that sum this up? From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Wed Jun 28 10:57:28 2006 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Wed Jun 28 10:57:41 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <476431c0df9d2f470f346192c1ac11e2@chrononomicon.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> <476431c0df9d2f470f346192c1ac11e2@chrononomicon.com> Message-ID: <85A344C8-6A34-48B5-8579-7EF5A16472EC@objectwerks.com> On Jun 28, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Bart Silverstrim wrote: > > On Jun 28, 2006, at 12:43 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: > >> >> On Jun 28, 2006, at 8:31 AM, Bart Silverstrim wrote: >> >>> >>> On Jun 28, 2006, at 10:19 AM, Chad Leigh wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 28, 2006, at 8:17 AM, Bart Silverstrim wrote: >>>> >>>>> Top posted mails are out of order logically >>>> >>>> >>>> No they aren't. Not the way they are read >>> >>> You mean like...a chat program? >> >> Do note, Bart, that I sent the above to you privately, off list. >> Responding in a public forum is VERY RUDE. Not that I had nothing >> to hide, just trying to not perpetuate the thread. > > I did note it; the message was short, and nothing seemed to be > overly personal. It was still sent to you personally. Interesting how you care so much for an outdated form of email reply but don't care at all for the convention that stuff sent off-list remain off-list and private. Chad From fm-lists at st-kilda.org Wed Jun 28 11:54:18 2006 From: fm-lists at st-kilda.org (Fearghas McKay) Date: Wed Jun 28 12:11:59 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <85A344C8-6A34-48B5-8579-7EF5A16472EC@objectwerks.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> <476431c0df9d2f470f346192c1ac11e2@chrononomicon.com> <85A344C8-6A34-48B5-8579-7EF5A16472EC@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: At 11:57 -0600 28/6/06, Chad Leigh wrote: >It was still sent to you personally. Interesting how you care so >much for an outdated form of email reply but don't care at all for >the convention that stuff sent off-list remain off-list and private. you did however make the same point in a public post. At 17:10 -0600 27/6/06, Chad Leigh wrote: >This is a dumb example as no one reads it that way. People read each >email as it comes so the flow of conversation is not reversed. This is incorrect as mail does not necessarily arrive in the order that it was posted. As to your opinion that it is outdated - well I will stick to an outdated convention that allows intelligent discourse and review of the writing of other correspondents. Regards f From mylists at serverlogistics.com Wed Jun 28 12:37:45 2006 From: mylists at serverlogistics.com (Aaron Faby) Date: Wed Jun 28 12:37:49 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12F7C19C-1930-47EA-9836-CA2F42605351@serverlogistics.com> Becoming President of the US is 10% WHAT you know and 90% WHO you know. Aaron On Jun 27, 2006, at 4:26 PM, John C. Welch wrote: > On 6/27/06 18:02, "Dan Shoop" wrote: > >> But you don't have to be smart to be president. >> Even Jimmy Carter asked his daughter what he >> should do. ;) > > In Carter's defense, they don't hand out degrees from Annapolis in > Nuclear > Physics to idiots, nor did you work directly under Hyman Rickover as a > Nuclear Engineer on a sub unless you were astoundingly smart and > disciplined. > > Carter may have been na?ve, but he is the absolute opposite of "not > smart" > > -- > John C. Welch Writer/Analyst > Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions > jwelch@bynkii.com > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin ---------------------------------------------------------------- Aaron Faby Server Logistics, Inc. aaron@serverlogistics.com Phone: 888-886-4044 http://www.serverlogistics.com Fax: 888-886-4044 Apple Consultants Network Certified Member ---------------------------------------------------------------- From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Wed Jun 28 12:55:38 2006 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Wed Jun 28 12:55:43 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> <476431c0df9d2f470f346192c1ac11e2@chrononomicon.com> <85A344C8-6A34-48B5-8579-7EF5A16472EC@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <4C03F942-061A-49A4-B6D4-7AA7AE159E23@objectwerks.com> On Jun 28, 2006, at 12:54 PM, Fearghas McKay wrote: > At 11:57 -0600 28/6/06, Chad Leigh wrote: >> It was still sent to you personally. Interesting how you care so >> much for an outdated form of email reply but don't care at all for >> the convention that stuff sent off-list remain off-list and private. > > you did however make the same point in a public post. so? The point is that a private email, who cares the content, was posted to a public list. > > At 17:10 -0600 27/6/06, Chad Leigh wrote: >> This is a dumb example as no one reads it that way. People read each >> email as it comes so the flow of conversation is not reversed. > > This is incorrect as mail does not necessarily arrive in the order > that it > was posted. True, but in those cases you can always scroll down. With top posting you don't have to scroll with each mail, only those you want to refresh yourself on. 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. > > As to your opinion that it is outdated - well I will stick to an > outdated > convention that allows intelligent discourse and review of the > writing of > other correspondents. Nothing stops you doing that with top posting either. btw, most of my posts are not top posted. What I object to is the condescending holier-than-thou attitude of those self proclaimed anti- top-posting police. To me it doesn't matter of people do top- posting, bottom posting or inline or a mix. I just read the mail and deal with it silently. I don't get all riled up and tell people how they should post when people post differently than I would prefer. All forms have their place and their pros and cons. Chad > > Regards > > f From shoop at iwiring.net Wed Jun 28 13:39:01 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Wed Jun 28 13:39:34 2006 Subject: Monitoring applications for crashes, who else wants it? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 4:59 PM -0600 6/27/06, Scott Ribe wrote: >I'm trying to automate a whole lot of log gathering and application >monitoring. Part of that is that I want certain crash logs. More than that, >I want to build a notification mechanism that will alert me to certain >crashes. If crash reporter is enabled then any application crashes will get dumped to ~/Library/Logs/CrashReporter, what's wrong with that and monitoring for any new log files there? > I've been looking at shell scripting and Ruby and this doesn't seem >quite possible, almost but not quite. What's not possible? >I don't want to muck around with input >managers and injecting code. The missing piece is a command line utility >that, given a pid, will monitor the process and report when (and preferably >how) the process ends. This is already available. >I could do something with ps and grep looping periodically, but, gross... > >So I wrote the missing piece. I call it "waitany". Sort of like wait(2), but >it will monitor any process (permissions allowing), and when that process >ends, report whether the process exited normally and its status code, or >whether the process was terminated by a signal and the signal number. A process terminated by a signal is exiting normally. >Is this generally useful enough to go to the effort of sharing it? The >source is small (< 1 page) and quite simple and I'd publish it, so for >anybody concerned about security/stability you can see what it does and >build it for yourself. I guess I must be missing something fundamental here b/c it seems like everything your asking for is already available. What exactly is it you're looking to do? -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From shoop at iwiring.net Wed Jun 28 13:41:12 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Wed Jun 28 13:41:50 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 6:26 PM -0500 6/27/06, John C. Welch wrote: >On 6/27/06 18:02, "Dan Shoop" wrote: > >> But you don't have to be smart to be president. >> Even Jimmy Carter asked his daughter what he >> should do. ;) > >In Carter's defense, they don't hand out degrees from Annapolis in Nuclear >Physics to idiots, nor did you work directly under Hyman Rickover as a >Nuclear Engineer on a sub unless you were astoundingly smart and >disciplined. > >Carter may have been na?ve, but he is the absolute opposite of "not smart" I didn't say he wasn't smart, I just said you don't have to be smart to be president. It's not a prerequisite for that position or most other executive positions. Executives aren't about being smart themselves, but making decisions based on what the smart people tell you. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From gkreme at gmail.com Wed Jun 28 13:56:43 2006 From: gkreme at gmail.com (Google Kreme) Date: Wed Jun 28 13:56:46 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <4C03F942-061A-49A4-B6D4-7AA7AE159E23@objectwerks.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> <476431c0df9d2f470f346192c1ac11e2@chrononomicon.com> <85A344C8-6A34-48B5-8579-7EF5A16472EC@objectwerks.com> <4C03F942-061A-49A4-B6D4-7AA7AE159E23@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <2CA6D89E-F1B0-4760-96D6-10AD57E1C083@gmail.com> [Warning, this message has been top posted. good luck] Never say anything in email you don't want posted to a public list. For example, all email to my gmail account is reachable via the web; if you know the right URL. And no, I'm not talking about webmail/login. On 28 Jun 2006, at 13:55 , Chad Leigh wrote: > so? The point is that a private email, who cares the content, was > posted to a public list. Yes it does. How do you respond to multiple parts of a message with top posting? Does this post make any sense at all, or is it huge pain to read? >> As to your opinion that it is outdated - well I will stick to an >> outdated >> convention that allows intelligent discourse and review of the >> writing of >> other correspondents. > > Nothing stops you doing that with top posting either. Top-posting is wrong 99% of the time. It is just laziness and ignorance. > btw, most of my posts are not top posted. What I object to is the > condescending holier-than-thou attitude of those self proclaimed > anti-top-posting police. Anything that makes your message harder to parse limits the number of people who will read it, who will bother to try to decipher it, or who will try to answer it. When I see a TOFU post I always need to weigh whether replying and fixing the TOFU is worth the effort. Most times it is not, and I don't reply. > To me it doesn't matter of people do top-posting, bottom posting or > inline or a mix. I just read the mail and deal with it silently. I > don't get all riled up and tell people how they should post when > people post differently than I would prefer. There is only one 'pro' for Top-posting, and that is keeping the entire conversation, unedited, in every message. This makes sense, for example, when dealing with customer support where you know that the person reading THIS copy is not the one who read the last copy, so you keep the entire TOFU mess. That is the ONLY time top-posting makes any kind of sense. > All forms have their place and their pros and cons. -- Lister: What d'ya think of Betty? Cat: Betty Rubble? Well, I would go with Betty... but I'd be thinking of Wilma. Lister: This is crazy. Why are we talking about going to bed with Wilma Flintstone? Cat: You're right. We're nuts. This is an insane conversation. Lister: She'll never leave Fred, and we know it. From shoop at iwiring.net Wed Jun 28 14:00:05 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Wed Jun 28 14:00:22 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> Message-ID: At 5:08 PM -0600 6/27/06, Chad Leigh wrote: >On Jun 27, 2006, at 5:02 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > >>At 11:37 AM -0400 6/27/06, David Herren wrote: >>>I prefer top posting--it's easier to read the new information and >>>as long as the subject line is meaningful, easier to follow. I'm >>>looking for deputies in my new anti-bottom posting police. >> >>Your opinion here doesn't count. The RFC's direct you otherwise. > >Which RFC Dan? RFC 1855 >And is it one that actually was accepted and "approved"? Yes, by the IETF, > Anyone can write an RFC That is very far from accurate bordering strongly towards wrong in every respect. While it is true that anyone can write whatever they want, they can't write an RFC. At least not a real one. RFCs are all written by the Network Working Group of the Internet Engineering Task Force. That is even if you're authoring an RFC you don't write it, you write an Internet Draft first, and then that may be submitted to the RFC Editor for consideration. In fact the process is more complex than that and follows well established rules. And before you say "well RFC 1855 say's it's not a standard" I'd point out that 'standards' are specific things too, namely STD documents. But most standard Internet things are described by RFCs, not STDs. Examples are protocols like SMTP, FTP, etc that are described by RFCs. So like all RFCs if you choose not to follow them don't expect things to work or people/protocols to talk/work to/with you. So if you choose to top post people will point out that this is wrong behavior, doesn't follow established Internet guidelines, is poor netiquette, and may choose to ignore you for your behavior. Moreover many mailing lists, usenet groups, and communities have stated policies against top posting. For instance the policy of Apple's mailing lists says no top posting. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Wed Jun 28 14:01:02 2006 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Wed Jun 28 14:01:06 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <2CA6D89E-F1B0-4760-96D6-10AD57E1C083@gmail.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> <476431c0df9d2f470f346192c1ac11e2@chrononomicon.com> <85A344C8-6A34-48B5-8579-7EF5A16472EC@objectwerks.com> <4C03F942-061A-49A4-B6D4-7AA7AE159E23@objectwerks.com> <2CA6D89E-F1B0-4760-96D6-10AD57E1C083@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jun 28, 2006, at 2:56 PM, Google Kreme wrote: > [Warning, this message has been top posted. good luck] no, it hasn't been. It has been obfuscated. No top-poster I have ever seen will top post inline. Chad > > Never say anything in email you don't want posted to a public list. > > For example, all email to my gmail account is reachable via the > web; if you know the right URL. And no, I'm not talking about > webmail/login. > > On 28 Jun 2006, at 13:55 , Chad Leigh wrote: >> so? The point is that a private email, who cares the content, was >> posted to a public list. > > Yes it does. How do you respond to multiple parts of a message > with top posting? Does this post make any sense at all, or is it > huge pain to read? > >>> As to your opinion that it is outdated - well I will stick to an >>> outdated >>> convention that allows intelligent discourse and review of the >>> writing of >>> other correspondents. >> >> Nothing stops you doing that with top posting either. > > Top-posting is wrong 99% of the time. It is just laziness and > ignorance. > >> btw, most of my posts are not top posted. What I object to is the >> condescending holier-than-thou attitude of those self proclaimed >> anti-top-posting police. > > Anything that makes your message harder to parse limits the number > of people who will read it, who will bother to try to decipher it, > or who will try to answer it. When I see a TOFU post I always need > to weigh whether replying and fixing the TOFU is worth the effort. > Most times it is not, and I don't reply. > >> To me it doesn't matter of people do top-posting, bottom posting >> or inline or a mix. I just read the mail and deal with it >> silently. I don't get all riled up and tell people how they >> should post when people post differently than I would prefer. > > > There is only one 'pro' for Top-posting, and that is keeping the > entire conversation, unedited, in every message. This makes sense, > for example, when dealing with customer support where you know that > the person reading THIS copy is not the one who read the last copy, > so you keep the entire TOFU mess. That is the ONLY time top- > posting makes any kind of sense. > >> All forms have their place and their pros and cons. > > > -- > Lister: What d'ya think of Betty? Cat: Betty Rubble? Well, I would > go with Betty... but I'd be thinking of Wilma. Lister: This is > crazy. Why are we talking about going to bed with Wilma Flintstone? > Cat: You're right. We're nuts. This is an insane conversation. > Lister: She'll never leave Fred, and we know it. > > > _______________________________________________ > MacOSX-admin mailing list > MacOSX-admin@omnigroup.com > http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Wed Jun 28 14:04:24 2006 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Wed Jun 28 14:04:29 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> Message-ID: <8B8C11B7-B84E-47B4-B4C5-86DE7A81CF7A@objectwerks.com> On Jun 28, 2006, at 3:00 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > At 5:08 PM -0600 6/27/06, Chad Leigh wrote: >> On Jun 27, 2006, at 5:02 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: >> >>> At 11:37 AM -0400 6/27/06, David Herren wrote: >>>> I prefer top posting--it's easier to read the new information >>>> and as long as the subject line is meaningful, easier to follow. >>>> I'm looking for deputies in my new anti-bottom posting police. >>> >>> Your opinion here doesn't count. The RFC's direct you otherwise. >> >> Which RFC Dan? > > RFC 1855 RFC 1855 Netiquette Guidelines Status of This Memo This memo provides information for the Internet community. This memo does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. Abstract This document provides a minimum set of guidelines for Network Etiquette (Netiquette) which organizations may take and adapt for their own use. As such, it is deliberately written in a bulleted format to make adaptation easier and to make any particular item easy (or easier) to find. It also functions as a minimum set of guidelines for individuals, both users and administrators. This memo is the product of the Responsible Use of the Network (RUN) Working Group of the IETF. > >> And is it one that actually was accepted and "approved"? > > Yes, by the IETF, See above, where it says that this does not specify an internet standard of any sort. Case closed > > > And before you say "well RFC 1855 say's it's not a standard" I'd > point out that 'standards' are specific things too, namely STD > documents. But most standard Internet things are described by RFCs, > not STDs. Examples are protocols like SMTP, FTP, etc that are > described by RFCs. So like all RFCs if you choose not to follow > them don't expect things to work or people/protocols to talk/work > to/with you. > > So if you choose to top post people will point out that this is > wrong behavior, doesn't follow established Internet guidelines, is > poor netiquette, and may choose to ignore you for your behavior. It is nothing more than ignorant personal preference. > > Moreover many mailing lists, usenet groups, and communities have > stated policies against top posting. For instance the policy of > Apple's mailing lists says no top posting. that is their right to do so, and in such cases, the moderator or list owner should be the on to point it out, not stuck up anti-top- posting-police. Chad From scott_ribe at killerbytes.com Wed Jun 28 14:04:17 2006 From: scott_ribe at killerbytes.com (Scott Ribe) Date: Wed Jun 28 14:04:30 2006 Subject: Monitoring applications for crashes, who else wants it? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > If crash reporter is enabled then any application crashes will get > dumped to ~/Library/Logs/CrashReporter, what's wrong with that and > monitoring for any new log files there? Well, yeah, I could monitor for changes there (new files is not adequate, since crash logs get appended). But I am looking for a mechanism that blocks instead of polls. I don't like the tradeoff between spinning and checking more frequently, vs delayed notification. > What's not possible? To have an action triggered when a process exits, immediately, and without busy polling. >> I don't want to muck around with input >> managers and injecting code. The missing piece is a command line utility >> that, given a pid, will monitor the process and report when (and preferably >> how) the process ends. > > This is already available. Using what command? > A process terminated by a signal is exiting normally. Sometimes. But I sure wouldn't call a process terminated by signal 10 (bad access) a normal exit. Anyway, what I meant was, getting information about the process end, whether it called exit or whether it was shut down by a signal. -- Scott Ribe scott_ribe@killerbytes.com http://www.killerbytes.com/ (303) 722-0567 voice From shoop at iwiring.net Wed Jun 28 14:10:01 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Wed Jun 28 14:10:23 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <4C03F942-061A-49A4-B6D4-7AA7AE159E23@objectwerks.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> <476431c0df9d2f470f346192c1ac11e2@chrononomicon.com> <85A344C8-6A34-48B5-8579-7EF5A16472EC@objectwerks.com> <4C03F942-061A-49A4-B6D4-7AA7AE159E23@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: At 1:55 PM -0600 6/28/06, Chad Leigh wrote: >btw, most of my posts are not top posted. What I object to is the >condescending holier-than-thou attitude of those self proclaimed >anti-top-posting police. To me it doesn't matter of people do >top-posting, bottom posting or inline or a mix. I just read the mail >and deal with it silently. I don't get all riled up and tell people >how they should post when people post differently than I would >prefer. >All forms have their place and their pros and cons. It's not "holier than thou" it's a matter of what is accepted. What's been stated as proper vs stated as rude. You might also decide to yelp all sorts of things to an SMTP server but it's not going to consider acceptable either. How dare it come off as being so much holier than you! You might think it's fair to spit or piss on the street but we do have conventions of decency and regulation that state that no matter what your opinion of things might be you're still going to be held in contempt for unacceptable actions. This holds true even though you could just walk by silently and ignore it rather than get riled up about it. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Wed Jun 28 14:15:21 2006 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Wed Jun 28 14:15:29 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> <476431c0df9d2f470f346192c1ac11e2@chrononomicon.com> <85A344C8-6A34-48B5-8579-7EF5A16472EC@objectwerks.com> <4C03F942-061A-49A4-B6D4-7AA7AE159E23@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <0D3EBA15-7E57-4374-A6AE-9476BA7A0BE9@objectwerks.com> On Jun 28, 2006, at 3:10 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > At 1:55 PM -0600 6/28/06, Chad Leigh wrote: >> btw, most of my posts are not top posted. What I object to is the >> condescending holier-than-thou attitude of those self proclaimed >> anti-top-posting police. To me it doesn't matter of people do top- >> posting, bottom posting or inline or a mix. I just read the mail >> and deal with it silently. I don't get all riled up and tell >> people how they should post when people post differently than I >> would prefer. >> All forms have their place and their pros and cons. > > It's not "holier than thou" it's a matter of what is accepted. > What's been stated as proper vs stated as rude. top posting is a personal preference and is not rude unless you want to be offended. Top posting is actually easier for informal conversation but less convenient for bullet by bullet replies. More rude is to be a self-proclaimed "defender of the faith" against top-posting. Things change and the old-guard of the internet have a hard time with that and want to remind people they are still relevant. > > You might also decide to yelp all sorts of things to an SMTP server > but it's not going to consider acceptable either. How dare it come > off as being so much holier than you! big difference one is personal preference, one is a technical standard > > You might think it's fair to spit or piss on the street but we do > have conventions of decency and regulation that state that no > matter what your opinion of things might be you're still going to > be held in contempt for unacceptable actions. This holds true even > though you could just walk by silently and ignore it rather than > get riled up about it. Example is much different. Whipping your willy out to piss on the street is different than formating your email differently than YOU want it to be. Chad From shoop at iwiring.net Wed Jun 28 17:07:58 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Wed Jun 28 17:08:24 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <0D3EBA15-7E57-4374-A6AE-9476BA7A0BE9@objectwerks.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> <476431c0df9d2f470f346192c1ac11e2@chrononomicon.com> <85A344C8-6A34-48B5-8579-7EF5A16472EC@objectwerks.com> <4C03F942-061A-49A4-B6D4-7AA7AE159E23@objectwerks.com> <0D3EBA15-7E57-4374-A6AE-9476BA7A0BE9@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: At 3:15 PM -0600 6/28/06, Chad Leigh wrote: >On Jun 28, 2006, at 3:10 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > >>At 1:55 PM -0600 6/28/06, Chad Leigh wrote: >>>btw, most of my posts are not top posted. What I object to is the >>>condescending holier-than-thou attitude of those self proclaimed >>>anti-top-posting police. To me it doesn't matter of people do >>>top-posting, bottom posting or inline or a mix. I just read the >>>mail and deal with it silently. I don't get all riled up and tell >>>people how they should post when people post differently than I >>>would prefer. >>>All forms have their place and their pros and cons. >> >>It's not "holier than thou" it's a matter of what is accepted. >>What's been stated as proper vs stated as rude. > >top posting is a personal preference and is not rude unless you want >to be offended. Top posting is actually easier for informal >conversation but less convenient for bullet by bullet replies. > >More rude is to be a self-proclaimed "defender of the faith" against >top-posting. > >Things change and the old-guard of the internet have a hard time >with that and want to remind people they are still relevant. This has nothing to do with "old guard" or "defenders" of anything. It has to do with what has been codified as acceptable and what is not. Top posting, whether you like it or not, is considered unacceptable. It has been codified along with what is and isn't acceptable behavior by the IETF. So it's not a matter of my opinion any more than it is a matter or your's. Top posting while it may be a preferences, doesn't mean that they preference selected is acceptable. It's my preference whether or not I wear shoes or go barefoot, but nonetheless walking into a store or restaurant barefoot is still unacceptable despite anyone's preference for doing so. >>You might also decide to yelp all sorts of things to an SMTP server >>but it's not going to consider acceptable either. How dare it come >>off as being so much holier than you! > >big difference > >one is personal preference, one is a technical standard SMTP is not a technical standard. It's not a standard or STD at all. It, like top-posting behavior, is covered by an RFC, which are not standards. They are instead 'agreed on behaviors' for interoperations, exactly the same as our topic at hand. >>You might think it's fair to spit or piss on the street but we do >>have conventions of decency and regulation that state that no >>matter what your opinion of things might be you're still going to >>be held in contempt for unacceptable actions. This holds true even >>though you could just walk by silently and ignore it rather than >>get riled up about it. > >Example is much different. Whipping your willy out to piss on the >street is different than formating your email differently than YOU >want it to be. It's not what "I" want it to be, it's what the IETF as deemed as the appropriate and acceptable behavior. It's what is referred to online as "proper netiquette." -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From shoop at iwiring.net Wed Jun 28 17:13:24 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Wed Jun 28 17:13:41 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <8B8C11B7-B84E-47B4-B4C5-86DE7A81CF7A@objectwerks.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <8B8C11B7-B84E-47B4-B4C5-86DE7A81CF7A@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: At 3:04 PM -0600 6/28/06, Chad Leigh wrote: >On Jun 28, 2006, at 3:00 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > >>At 5:08 PM -0600 6/27/06, Chad Leigh wrote: >>>On Jun 27, 2006, at 5:02 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: >>> >>>>At 11:37 AM -0400 6/27/06, David Herren wrote: >>>>>I prefer top posting--it's easier to read the new information >>>>>and as long as the subject line is meaningful, easier to follow. >>>>>I'm looking for deputies in my new anti-bottom posting police. >>>> >>>>Your opinion here doesn't count. The RFC's direct you otherwise. >>> >>>Which RFC Dan? >> >>RFC 1855 > >RFC 1855 > >Netiquette Guidelines > >Status of This Memo > >This memo provides information for the Internet community. This memo >does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of >this memo is unlimited. >Abstract >This document provides a minimum set of guidelines for Network >Etiquette (Netiquette) which organizations may take and adapt for >their own use. As such, it is deliberately written in a bulleted >format to make adaptation easier and to make any particular item >easy (or easier) to find. It also functions as a minimum set of >guidelines for individuals, both users and administrators. This memo >is the product of the Responsible Use of the Network (RUN) Working >Group of the IETF. > >> >>>And is it one that actually was accepted and "approved"? >> >>Yes, by the IETF, > >See above, where it says that this does not specify an internet >standard of any sort. > >Case closed You're being a twit. RFC *are never* standards. Standards are STDs. "Internet Standards" have a *very specific meaning by the IETF. SMTP, for instance, is not a "standard". >>And before you say "well RFC 1855 say's it's not a standard" I'd >>point out that 'standards' are specific things too, namely STD >>documents. But most standard Internet things are described by RFCs, >>not STDs. Examples are protocols like SMTP, FTP, etc that are >>described by RFCs. So like all RFCs if you choose not to follow >>them don't expect things to work or people/protocols to talk/work >>to/with you. >> >>So if you choose to top post people will point out that this is >>wrong behavior, doesn't follow established Internet guidelines, is >>poor netiquette, and may choose to ignore you for your behavior. > >It is nothing more than ignorant personal preference. Then SMTP is nothing more than following ignorant personal preference yet you seem to be comfortable enough with that. >>Moreover many mailing lists, usenet groups, and communities have >>stated policies against top posting. For instance the policy of >>Apple's mailing lists says no top posting. > >that is their right to do so, and in such cases, the moderator or >list owner should be the on to point it out, not stuck up >anti-top-posting-police. There is no moderator here. And our community has called you out for violating our policy of what we consider acceptable. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Wed Jun 28 19:00:01 2006 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Wed Jun 28 19:00:13 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> <476431c0df9d2f470f346192c1ac11e2@chrononomicon.com> <85A344C8-6A34-48B5-8579-7EF5A16472EC@objectwerks.com> <4C03F942-061A-49A4-B6D4-7AA7AE159E23@objectwerks.com> <0D3EBA15-7E57-4374-A6AE-9476BA7A0BE9@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On Jun 28, 2006, at 6:07 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > This has nothing to do with "old guard" or "defenders" of anything. > It has to do with what has been codified as acceptable and what is > not. > > Top posting, whether you like it or not, is considered > unacceptable. It has been codified along with what is and isn't > acceptable behavior by the IETF. > The RFC does not define that. I don't think you even read it. Trying to compare it to SMTP is laughable. The RFC you quoted on this admits itself up front it is merely a suggestion and not a standard (small "s") in any way. SMTP is a standard (small "s"). Chad From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Wed Jun 28 19:01:09 2006 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Wed Jun 28 19:01:12 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <8B8C11B7-B84E-47B4-B4C5-86DE7A81CF7A@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <5F0ED064-B344-4E29-B14B-382983EEE500@objectwerks.com> On Jun 28, 2006, at 6:13 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > > There is no moderator here. And our community has called you out > for violating our policy of what we consider acceptable. There is a moderator here and a list owner, and they have not laid down any law on top posting, only a few overbearing people were rude on the behavior. Chad From shoop at iwiring.net Wed Jun 28 19:08:22 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Wed Jun 28 19:08:37 2006 Subject: Monitoring applications for crashes, who else wants it? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 3:04 PM -0600 6/28/06, Scott Ribe wrote: > > If crash reporter is enabled then any application crashes will get >> dumped to ~/Library/Logs/CrashReporter, what's wrong with that and >> monitoring for any new log files there? > >Well, yeah, I could monitor for changes there (new files is not adequate, >since crash logs get appended). But I am looking for a mechanism that blocks >instead of polls. I don't like the tradeoff between spinning and checking >more frequently, vs delayed notification. This mechanism already exists, there's no need for polling. It's provided by launchd. For instance it's how cron operates. cron knows when a crontab is changed b/c launchd provides it with the mechanism. > > What's not possible? > >To have an action triggered when a process exits, immediately, and without >busy polling. Mechanisms for this already do exist. But you need to define more clearly what type of action you're looking to perform. At the moment I'm not sure what your'e trying to do but it seems like process accounting and things like launchd and watchdog already perform waht you're trying to reinvent. > >> I don't want to muck around with input >>> managers and injecting code. The missing piece is a command line utility >>> that, given a pid, will monitor the process and report when (and preferably >>> how) the process ends. >> >> This is already available. > >Using what command? Signal handlers, watchdog, launchd, ktrace, ptrace, ... all do this already. > > A process terminated by a signal is exiting normally. > >Sometimes. Always. It's part of the definitions of how signals operate. >But I sure wouldn't call a process terminated by signal 10 (bad >access) a normal exit. It is. > Anyway, what I meant was, getting information about >the process end, whether it called exit or whether it was shut down by a >signal. It always calls exit no mater what so what is it that you're trying to differentiate? Again, I suspect that you're trying to reinvent existing mechanisms and functionalities like CrashReporter or accounting. Moreover I think you have some misunderstandings about process termination meachnisms. I think you need to read Amit Singh's new book or at least "The Design and Implementation of the 4.4 BSD Operating System" -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From scott_ribe at killerbytes.com Wed Jun 28 20:12:38 2006 From: scott_ribe at killerbytes.com (Scott Ribe) Date: Wed Jun 28 20:12:52 2006 Subject: Monitoring applications for crashes, who else wants it? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > This mechanism already exists, there's no need for polling. It's > provided by launchd. For instance it's how cron operates. cron knows > when a crontab is changed b/c launchd provides it with the mechanism. OK, now I see where you're going and where I wasn't clear enough. I'm not looking to keep a server running. I'm looking to monitor termination status of a normal user-land GUI application. (Suppose for instance that I want to be paged immediately if my beta crashes.) So I didn't see any way in which launchd, cron, watchdog and so on could help me. Taking a refresher on the launchd docs, I see that perhaps the WatchPaths key would get me notification of a crash, by watching the CrashReporter directory and/or a crash file within it. It wouldn't get me everything waitany does; it termination status otherwise, in other words for normal exits or termination by SIGKILL, but I don't need that very much anyway. Hindsight being 20/20, I was getting hung up on something really unimportant. I could (and should) have done what I needed using ps, grep, and sleep. I'm just used to avoiding polling, and that instinct overrode better judgment in this case. That said, if you want to chew on more details: >>>> I don't want to muck around with input >>>> managers and injecting code. The missing piece is a command line utility >>>> that, given a pid, will monitor the process and report when (and >>>> preferably >>>> how) the process ends. >>> >>> This is already available. >> >> Using what command? > > Signal handlers, watchdog, launchd, ktrace, ptrace, ... all do this already. Well, watchdog and launchd only monitor processes they launch, they don't attach to existing processes. I think ktrace is way too much overhead. And ptrace is not a shell command, it's an API. In fact, it's exactly the API that I used in one version of waitany ;-) (Also, kqueue is an option; it can effectively wait for exit of any process, can't report status, does not have any security limitations, and doesn't mess around with signal handling and termination the way ptrace does.) >>> A process terminated by a signal is exiting normally. >> >> Sometimes. > > Always. It's part of the definitions of how signals operate. By that definition, how could a process ever exit abnormally? Actually, I'm not going to argue or concede this point: Stevens explicitly calls it "abnormal termination" when a process is terminated by a signal. >> Anyway, what I meant was, getting information about >> the process end, whether it called exit or whether it was shut down by a >> signal. > > It always calls exit no mater what so what is it that you're trying > to differentiate? No, exit is not always called. It is not called when a process is terminated by SIGKILL or SIGSTOP, and I expect it's not called when processes are terminated for not handling any other signal whose default action is termination. Why should it be? How could the system assume that all installed atexit handlers are interrupt safe??? (Also, the termination status code will reflect termination by signal and the signal number, not an exit status--it's either/or, not both.) -- Scott Ribe scott_ribe@killerbytes.com http://www.killerbytes.com/ (303) 722-0567 voice From pie at storybytes.com Thu Jun 29 00:12:35 2006 From: pie at storybytes.com (EatingPie) Date: Thu Jun 29 00:12:45 2006 Subject: Save My Firewire Disk... Please In-Reply-To: <200606281900.k5SJ04qi015869@slowbro.omnigroup.com> References: <200606281900.k5SJ04qi015869@slowbro.omnigroup.com> Message-ID: <44A37D63.5070008@storybytes.com> I abandoned Norton ages ago after witnessing their horrifying OSX Version. But I've just toasted three 250 GB FW Drives and need a tool to resurrect them. The drives will not mount, but Disk Utility shows them, and even gives their volume names. When I do a verify/repair, I get the following messsages: Invalid Sibling Link The Volume Needs to be repaired. Error: The underlying task reported failure on Exit 1 HFS Volume checked Volume Needs repair I'm obviously looking for something that can repair these errors. Or any hints on using whatever tools come with OSX... fsck comes to mind, but I don't know how to access the volume if it isn't mounted. TIA. -Pie ----------------------------------------------------------------------- EatingPie | ** STORY BYTES ** | Story Bytes better pie@storybytes.com | | than sound bites ----------------------------------------------------------------------- A mailing list of *very* short stories (2 words and up) sent weekly. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From tuparev at mac.com Thu Jun 29 00:13:37 2006 From: tuparev at mac.com (Georg Tuparev) Date: Thu Jun 29 00:13:54 2006 Subject: Monitoring applications for crashes, who else wants it? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98A16EFA-6FC0-4AD3-8A1F-58CB908F6C3D@mac.com> On Jun 29, 2006, at 5:12 AM, Scott Ribe wrote: > OK, now I see where you're going and where I wasn't clear enough. > I'm not > looking to keep a server running. I'm looking to monitor > termination status > of a normal user-land GUI application. (Suppose for instance that I > want to > be paged immediately if my beta crashes.) So I didn't see any way > in which > launchd, cron, watchdog and so on could help me. launchd can monitor ports. You can use this to check if the app is alive. At least we do this for our robotic telescope system and it works so far fine. Of course this is very heavy approach and I would not use it for a simple cocoa app. Catching and logging exceptions and signals from a crashing application is something I would do in these cases. g Georg Tuparev Tuparev Technologies Klipper 13 1186 VR Amstelveen The Netherlands Mobile: +31-6-55798196 From bsilver at chrononomicon.com Thu Jun 29 04:56:08 2006 From: bsilver at chrononomicon.com (Bart Silverstrim) Date: Thu Jun 29 04:56:22 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <0D3EBA15-7E57-4374-A6AE-9476BA7A0BE9@objectwerks.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> <476431c0df9d2f470f346192c1ac11e2@chrononomicon.com> <85A344C8-6A34-48B5-8579-7EF5A16472EC@objectwerks.com> <4C03F942-061A-49A4-B6D4-7AA7AE159E23@objectwerks.com> <0D3EBA15-7E57-4374-A6AE-9476BA7A0BE9@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <98589110aa3bab79abb378b05c6918c5@chrononomicon.com> On Jun 28, 2006, at 5:15 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: > > On Jun 28, 2006, at 3:10 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > >> At 1:55 PM -0600 6/28/06, Chad Leigh wrote: >>> btw, most of my posts are not top posted. What I object to is the >>> condescending holier-than-thou attitude of those self proclaimed >>> anti-top-posting police. To me it doesn't matter of people do >>> top-posting, bottom posting or inline or a mix. I just read the mail >>> and deal with it silently. I don't get all riled up and tell people >>> how they should post when people post differently than I would >>> prefer. >>> All forms have their place and their pros and cons. >> >> It's not "holier than thou" it's a matter of what is accepted. What's >> been stated as proper vs stated as rude. > > top posting is a personal preference and is not rude unless you want > to be offended. Top posting is actually easier for informal > conversation but less convenient for bullet by bullet replies. A) Personal preference is fine when dealing with an issue that pertains to you. We're talking about communicating to other people. My personal preference may be, for example, liberal sprinkling of the f-bomb in every other sentence. This will most likely offend or put off people with whom I'm communicating. But it's still my personal preference! How dare they get offended! No...you work with protocol to effectively communicate, and personal preference sometimes gets trumped by protocol. B) "Top posting is actually easier for informal conversation..." Translation seems to pretty much match what I originally said. It's lazy. A lazy way to fire off a mental belch of thought rather than actually craft something insightful or meaningful. It's a form of broken instant-messaging. Just admit it, acknowledge it and move on...you're putting into nicer terms what I've already said in more cynical yet accurate terms. > More rude is to be a self-proclaimed "defender of the faith" against > top-posting. You can be offended by it if you want, doesn't really matter. It's not a faith issue. It's simply a fact of how wasteful it is, and how much of a pain in the arse it is to have something meaningful pulled out of it. Did you ever take the email I sent with both inline and top posted information and get someone to put the top posted part in the proper order? You have yet to actually answer the points with counterpoints. You've instead dodged the arguments..."you're rude." Sometimes. Are you going to answer my counterpoints? "You're posting to the public forum when I sent it personally..." Yes, I acknowledged that, and yet you still didn't address the counterpoints. As a matter of fact, not only does top posting come off as a style adopted by people addicted to instant messaging and/or not overly interested in literate pursuits since their "conversational style" is unlike anything I've encountered in books, graphic novels, comics, or even instant messaging clients, but I would argue that it's also far more rude that you totally ignore addressing the points of the email I had sent. > Things change and the old-guard of the internet have a hard time with > that and want to remind people they are still relevant. Things do change. That doesn't change the fact, for example, that English is English and gutter is gutter. >> You might also decide to yelp all sorts of things to an SMTP server >> but it's not going to consider acceptable either. How dare it come >> off as being so much holier than you! > > big difference > > one is personal preference, one is a technical standard No, one is a measure of what the programmed server is wired to answer to, the other is how much horsecrap a person is willing to put up with. >> You might think it's fair to spit or piss on the street but we do >> have conventions of decency and regulation that state that no matter >> what your opinion of things might be you're still going to be held in >> contempt for unacceptable actions. This holds true even though you >> could just walk by silently and ignore it rather than get riled up >> about it. > > Example is much different. Whipping your willy out to piss on the > street is different than formating your email differently than YOU > want it to be. Not really...it's again a social issue and a social protocol for communication. There are small businesses in my town that have large signs outside with the removable letters. A few of them ALWAYS seem to have typos. For many people this may not be an issue. Or they may not even realize it, sadly, for the typos it contains. To me if you don't care enough about your business to actually double check the spelling and do it right then I wonder how sloppy you run other aspects of your business and I won't go there. But hey...they're free to format the sign how THEY want. Even if it does reflect poorly on them. On the flip side, you can top post if you want, I usually just won't answer the email. From bsilver at chrononomicon.com Thu Jun 29 04:57:42 2006 From: bsilver at chrononomicon.com (Bart Silverstrim) Date: Thu Jun 29 04:57:47 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> <476431c0df9d2f470f346192c1ac11e2@chrononomicon.com> <85A344C8-6A34-48B5-8579-7EF5A16472EC@objectwerks.com> <4C03F942-061A-49A4-B6D4-7AA7AE159E23@objectwerks.com> <0D3EBA15-7E57-4374-A6AE-9476BA7A0BE9@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: On Jun 28, 2006, at 8:07 PM, Dan Shoop wrote: > SMTP is not a technical standard. It's not a standard or STD at all. And yet, so many users are catching viruses through it... From bsilver at chrononomicon.com Thu Jun 29 06:08:22 2006 From: bsilver at chrononomicon.com (Bart Silverstrim) Date: Thu Jun 29 06:08:29 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <85A344C8-6A34-48B5-8579-7EF5A16472EC@objectwerks.com> References: <7C212FD8-669B-4492-AA96-E7335F921EDF@pinataperspective.com> <4EFBF0DC-1E9B-4E74-B309-05D9E092D728@objectwerks.com> <517BBD3A-3628-4D68-BEEB-25728D92E0E2@idiomatrix.com> <11c68c7e3e3b1b3f6346eabb5c35bf7c@chrononomicon.com> <819AB4CB-BAF9-4D81-80E8-DD723E114AFD@objectwerks.com> <476431c0df9d2f470f346192c1ac11e2@chrononomicon.com> <85A344C8-6A34-48B5-8579-7EF5A16472EC@objectwerks.com> Message-ID: <8fc7a910695bcef471e1a78fafa703a1@chrononomicon.com> On Jun 28, 2006, at 1:57 PM, Chad Leigh wrote: > It was still sent to you personally. Interesting how you care so > much for an outdated form of email reply but don't care at all for the > convention that stuff sent off-list remain off-list and private. Literacy is outdated? Having words placed in a chronological form is outdated? From jwelch at bynkii.com Thu Jun 29 07:31:09 2006 From: jwelch at bynkii.com (John C. Welch) Date: Thu Jun 29 07:31:24 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: <8fc7a910695bcef471e1a78fafa703a1@chrononomicon.com> Message-ID: On 6/29/06 08:08, "Bart Silverstrim" wrote: >> It was still sent to you personally. Interesting how you care so >> much for an outdated form of email reply but don't care at all for the >> convention that stuff sent off-list remain off-list and private. > > Literacy is outdated? > > Having words placed in a chronological form is outdated? Oh he's on about text v html, as if that has anything to do with anything there -- John C. Welch Writer/Analyst Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions jwelch@bynkii.com From chad+macosx at objectwerks.com Thu Jun 29 07:45:46 2006 From: chad+macosx at objectwerks.com (Chad Leigh) Date: Thu Jun 29 07:45:49 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 29, 2006, at 8:31 AM, John C. Welch wrote: > On 6/29/06 08:08, "Bart Silverstrim" > wrote: > >>> It was still sent to you personally. Interesting how you care so >>> much for an outdated form of email reply but don't care at all >>> for the >>> convention that stuff sent off-list remain off-list and private. >> >> Literacy is outdated? >> >> Having words placed in a chronological form is outdated? > > Oh he's on about text v html, as if that has anything to do with > anything > there ??? Personally I think html mail is an abomination. Don't know what you are talking about. Chad From scott_ribe at killerbytes.com Thu Jun 29 08:51:49 2006 From: scott_ribe at killerbytes.com (Scott Ribe) Date: Thu Jun 29 08:51:58 2006 Subject: Monitoring applications for crashes, who else wants it? In-Reply-To: <98A16EFA-6FC0-4AD3-8A1F-58CB908F6C3D@mac.com> Message-ID: > launchd can monitor ports. You can use this to check if the app is > alive. At least we do this for our robotic telescope system and it > works so far fine. Of course this is very heavy approach and I would > not use it for a simple cocoa app. Catching and logging exceptions > and signals from a crashing application is something I would do in > these cases. I'm not sure if I understand you. The only thing I see launchd could do is monitor connectivity to a server application on a particular port, which wouldn't do any good for a typical GUI app. Is that what you mean? Or is there something else? Do do you mean catching and logging signals within an app? Because I want an external, _uncorrupted_, process watching for that. Or is there some way I haven't found to do that? -- Scott Ribe scott_ribe@killerbytes.com http://www.killerbytes.com/ (303) 722-0567 voice From jwelch at bynkii.com Thu Jun 29 09:14:54 2006 From: jwelch at bynkii.com (John C. Welch) Date: Thu Jun 29 09:14:59 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 6/29/06 09:45, "Chad Leigh" wrote: >>>> It was still sent to you personally. Interesting how you care so >>>> much for an outdated form of email reply but don't care at all >>>> for the >>>> convention that stuff sent off-list remain off-list and private. >>> >>> Literacy is outdated? >>> >>> Having words placed in a chronological form is outdated? >> >> Oh he's on about text v html, as if that has anything to do with >> anything >> there > > > ??? > > Personally I think html mail is an abomination. Don't know what you > are talking about. trying to figure out what's "outdated" about his email -- John C. Welch Writer/Analyst Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions jwelch@bynkii.com From bsilver at chrononomicon.com Thu Jun 29 09:32:10 2006 From: bsilver at chrononomicon.com (Bart Silverstrim) Date: Thu Jun 29 09:32:25 2006 Subject: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 29, 2006, at 12:14 PM, John C. Welch wrote: > On 6/29/06 09:45, "Chad Leigh" wrote: > >>>>> It was still sent to you personally. Interesting how you care so >>>>> much for an outdated form of email reply but don't care at all >>>>> for the >>>>> convention that stuff sent off-list remain off-list and private. >>>> >>>> Literacy is outdated? >>>> >>>> Having words placed in a chronological form is outdated? >>> >>> Oh he's on about text v html, as if that has anything to do with >>> anything >>> there >> >> >> ??? >> >> Personally I think html mail is an abomination. Don't know what you >> are talking about. > > trying to figure out what's "outdated" about his email Back in my day we had text email...and no viruses, none of them SPAM things. There are times to outdated "good old days" should be returned to, darnit! Now we have "rich text" mail, HTML with dancin' heads in the background of my email, kids doing this TXT crap, instant messaging, top posting the thought as it occurs to young ones without properly editing their document to make it presentable...it's like the Intarweb caught attention deficit disorder. From kwerle at pobox.com Thu Jun 29 13:51:22 2006 From: kwerle at pobox.com (Kurt Werle) Date: Thu Jun 29 14:21:31 2006 Subject: STFU, already (was Re: topposting, was: Re: Slightly off topic....Webstats program that supports SFTP) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13678.66.236.113.201.1151614282.squirrel@mail.shiftmanager.net> Note that the subject is topposting. Those of you still interested in the previous subject, please take it to personal email, or ask miss manners, please. Thanks. > > On Jun 29, 2006, at 12:14 PM, John C. Welch wrote: > > >> On 6/29/06 09:45, "Chad Leigh" wrote: >> >> >>>>>> It was still sent to you personally. Interesting how you care >>>>>> so much for an outdated form of email reply but don't care at >>>>>> all for the convention that stuff sent off-list remain off-list >>>>>> and private. >>>>> >>>>> Literacy is outdated? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Having words placed in a chronological form is outdated? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Oh he's on about text v html, as if that has anything to do with >>>> anything there >>> >>> >>> ??? >>> >>> >>> Personally I think html mail is an abomination. Don't know what you >>> are talking about. >> >> trying to figure out what's "outdated" about his email > > Back in my day we had text email...and no viruses, none of them SPAM > things. > > There are times to outdated "good old days" should be returned to, > darnit! > > Now we have "rich text" mail, HTML with dancin' heads in the background > of my email, kids doing this TXT crap, instant messaging, top posting the > thought as it occurs to young ones without properly editing their document > to make it presentable...it's like the Intarweb caught attention deficit > disorder. > > > -- kwerle@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~kwerle/ Tired of spam? Control your Mailserver (or .forward)? http://tess.sf.net From shoop at iwiring.net Thu Jun 29 14:23:24 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Jun 29 14:23:47 2006 Subject: Monitoring applications for crashes, who else wants it? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:12 PM -0600 6/28/06, Scott Ribe wrote: > > This mechanism already exists, there's no need for polling. It's >> provided by launchd. For instance it's how cron operates. cron knows >> when a crontab is changed b/c launchd provides it with the mechanism. > >OK, now I see where you're going and where I wasn't clear enough. I'm not >looking to keep a server running. If you see this as what launchd does then there's your issue. Launchd owns all processes and can therefore monitor them. > I'm looking to monitor termination status >of a normal user-land GUI application. Which is a child of launchd. > (Suppose for instance that I want to >be paged immediately if my beta crashes.) So I didn't see any way in which >launchd, cron, watchdog and so on could help me. Dude you're missing it. If your process crashes and CrashReporter is enabled it writes a crash dump. Use launchd to monitor for changes to files in the crash dump directory. Then take action based on that. Morover if you have a task that you want notified on certain exit status this too can be handled by launchd. Or you could just declare an exit handler or wrap it as a child to a watchdog parent (whether you really use watchdog or just your own handler is your affair.) > Taking a refresher on the >launchd docs, I see that perhaps the WatchPaths key would get me >notification of a crash, by watching the CrashReporter directory and/or a >crash file within it. That would monitor easily for a crash, yes. That is an abnormal termination, as opposed to a orderly termination through process completion or signalling which does not result in a crash report. >It wouldn't get me everything waitany does; I not sure it couldn't. Then again, I'm not clear what precisely you're expecting here. > it >termination status otherwise, in other words for normal exits or termination >by SIGKILL, but I don't need that very much anyway. It could. >Hindsight being 20/20, I was getting hung up on something really >unimportant. I could (and should) have done what I needed using ps, grep, >and sleep. I'm just used to avoiding polling, and that instinct overrode >better judgment in this case. > >That said, if you want to chew on more details: > >>>>> I don't want to muck around with input >>>>> managers and injecting code. The missing piece is a command line utility >>>>> that, given a pid, will monitor the process and report when (and >>>>> preferably >>>>> how) the process ends. >>>> >>>> This is already available. >>> >>> Using what command? >> >> Signal handlers, watchdog, launchd, ktrace, ptrace, ... all do this already. > >Well, watchdog and launchd only monitor processes they launch, Well launchd owns every process and therefore effectively monitors all. Watchdog monitors its watched processes b/c it's their parent. > they don't attach to existing processes. They don't need to. > I think ktrace is way too much overhead. And ptrace is not a shell >command, it's an API. First off you asked for a programmatic method, APIs provide programmatic methods. Second just b/c ptrace is a facility doesn't mean there aren't tools already using it that you couldn't piggyback. > >>> A process terminated by a signal is exiting normally. >>> >>> Sometimes. >> >> Always. It's part of the definitions of how signals operate. > >By that definition, how could a process ever exit abnormally? It "crashes". This isn't in result to the process processing a signal or completing normal execution, it's instead trapped by the kernel. A process signaled and that decide's to terminate as a result of that signal received is clearly not terminating abnormally. It may exit in a normal and orderly manner. If SIGKILL'ed or SIGSTOP'ed it still winds down orderly too. >Actually, I'm >not going to argue or concede this point: Stevens explicitly calls it >"abnormal termination" when a process is terminated by a signal. Stevens wrote Mach? ;) The process is asked to "abnormally terminate" in the sense that it is in response to the signal rather than as a result of its normal execution, but the actually termination is far from abnormal at all and is completely orderly. Contrast this to a process that "crashes". It does not terminate neither normally or orderly. That is it terminates abnormally. Consider it minor semantics. > >> Anyway, what I meant was, getting information about >>> the process end, whether it called exit or whether it was shut down by a >>> signal. >> >> It always calls exit no mater what so what is it that you're trying >> to differentiate? > >No, exit is not always called. While true for BSD this is not appear to be true for OS X. The only effective difference is that wait() and waitpid() receive status under OS X. > It is not called when a process is terminated >by SIGKILL or SIGSTOP, and I expect it's not called when processes are >terminated for not handling any other signal whose default action is >termination. Why should it be? How could the system assume that all >installed atexit handlers are interrupt safe??? This isn't BSD. This is Mach. A Mach exception is what is executed and a special thread executes the process's exit in an orderly manner. This thread merely ignores any other handlers, not that there are any for these actions. No tests for other handler's safety is therefore needed. >(Also, the termination >status code will reflect termination by signal and the signal number, not an >exit status--it's either/or, not both.) This is b/c wait() and waitpid() have received the status during the process exit and no other exit code could be returned since the other execution thread(s) of the process were interrupted and couldn't receive any values from them. But the bottom line is that if you have processes that you want notification based on termination or actions to occur that this is already the functionality provided as part of launchd, why not just use it? -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From shoop at iwiring.net Thu Jun 29 14:25:23 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Jun 29 14:25:50 2006 Subject: Monitoring applications for crashes, who else wants it? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:51 AM -0600 6/29/06, Scott Ribe wrote: > > launchd can monitor ports. You can use this to check if the app is >> alive. At least we do this for our robotic telescope system and it >> works so far fine. Of course this is very heavy approach and I would >> not use it for a simple cocoa app. Catching and logging exceptions >> and signals from a crashing application is something I would do in >> these cases. > >I'm not sure if I understand you. The only thing I see launchd could do is >monitor connectivity to a server application on a particular port, which >wouldn't do any good for a typical GUI app. Is that what you mean? Or is >there something else? > >Do do you mean catching and logging signals within an app? Because I want an >external, _uncorrupted_, process watching for that. Or is there some way I >haven't found to do that? And what if that process fails? Who watches it? Answer: launchd. Seriously, launchd was designed to handle exactly what you're asking. I'd suggest you investigate it more thoroughly as your view of it appears grossly incomplete. Again, I recommend Amit's book. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From shoop at iwiring.net Thu Jun 29 14:26:01 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Jun 29 14:26:49 2006 Subject: Save My Firewire Disk... Please In-Reply-To: <44A37D63.5070008@storybytes.com> References: <200606281900.k5SJ04qi015869@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <44A37D63.5070008@storybytes.com> Message-ID: At 12:12 AM -0700 6/29/06, EatingPie wrote: >I abandoned Norton ages ago after witnessing their horrifying OSX >Version. But I've just toasted three 250 GB FW Drives and need a >tool to resurrect them. > >The drives will not mount, but Disk Utility shows them, and even >gives their volume names. When I do a verify/repair, I get the >following messsages: > > Invalid Sibling Link > The Volume Needs to be repaired. > > > Error: The underlying task reported failure on Exit > > > 1 HFS Volume checked > Volume Needs repair > >I'm obviously looking for something that can repair these errors. >Or any hints on using whatever tools come with OSX... fsck comes to >mind, but I don't know how to access the volume if it isn't mounted. Have you tried DiskWarrior? -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From jwelch at bynkii.com Thu Jun 29 14:34:12 2006 From: jwelch at bynkii.com (John C. Welch) Date: Thu Jun 29 14:34:27 2006 Subject: Monitoring applications for crashes, who else wants it? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 6/28/06 22:12, "Scott Ribe" wrote: > Hindsight being 20/20, I was getting hung up on something really > unimportant. I could (and should) have done what I needed using ps, grep, > and sleep. I'm just used to avoiding polling, and that instinct overrode > better judgment in this case. Or just use SNMP. I do this with Nagios so that I know if anything happens to my KDC, AFP server, smbd, etc. -- John C. Welch Writer/Analyst Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions jwelch@bynkii.com From scott_ribe at killerbytes.com Thu Jun 29 14:36:34 2006 From: scott_ribe at killerbytes.com (Scott Ribe) Date: Thu Jun 29 14:36:47 2006 Subject: Monitoring applications for crashes, who else wants it? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > If you see this as what launchd does then there's your issue. Launchd > owns all processes and can therefore monitor them. How? You keep saying something like this. Please tell me how launchd can monitor a GUI app launched by the user? Yes, launchd owns login window process, which owns all the users' processes. But where is the functionality that will allow me to use launchd to monitor that process for termination? > Morover if you have a task that you want notified on certain exit > status this too can be handled by launchd. Again, how? What have I missed in the documentation? Are you suggesting that in my app's bundle the "executable" should be a shell script that uses launchctl to load and run the actual application? I hadn't thought of it before, seems like it would work... >> By that definition, how could a process ever exit abnormally? > > It "crashes". This isn't in result to the process processing a signal > or completing normal execution, it's instead trapped by the kernel. > > A process signaled and that decide's to terminate as a result of that > signal received is clearly not terminating abnormally. It may exit in > a normal and orderly manner. If SIGKILL'ed or SIGSTOP'ed it still > winds down orderly too. So what's your definition of "crash"??? > But the bottom line is that if you have processes that you want > notification based on termination or actions to occur that this is > already the functionality provided as part of launchd, why not just > use it? How? Given a running process, how do I use launchd to wait for its termination??? -- Scott Ribe scott_ribe@killerbytes.com http://www.killerbytes.com/ (303) 722-0567 voice From jwelch at bynkii.com Thu Jun 29 14:49:11 2006 From: jwelch at bynkii.com (John C. Welch) Date: Thu Jun 29 14:49:15 2006 Subject: Monitoring applications for crashes, who else wants it? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 6/29/06 16:36, "Scott Ribe" wrote: >> If you see this as what launchd does then there's your issue. Launchd >> owns all processes and can therefore monitor them. > > How? You keep saying something like this. Please tell me how launchd can > monitor a GUI app launched by the user? Yes, launchd owns login window > process, which owns all the users' processes. But where is the functionality > that will allow me to use launchd to monitor that process for termination? Download Lingon from VersionTracker. It will let you set up a launchdaemon that monitors the application and doesn't let it quit. You have to point it at the application executable, so for example, with Mail, you just point it at /Applications/Mail.app/Contents/MacOS/Mail launchd will make sure that stays running. Lingon is your best friend in the world for dealing with launchd. -- John C. Welch Writer/Analyst Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions jwelch@bynkii.com From shoop at iwiring.net Thu Jun 29 17:18:14 2006 From: shoop at iwiring.net (Dan Shoop) Date: Thu Jun 29 17:18:59 2006 Subject: Monitoring applications for crashes, who else wants it? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 3:36 PM -0600 6/29/06, Scott Ribe wrote: > > If you see this as what launchd does then there's your issue. Launchd >> owns all processes and can therefore monitor them. > >How? You keep saying something like this. Please tell me how launchd can >monitor a GUI app launched by the user? Yes, launchd owns login window >process, which owns all the users' processes. But where is the functionality >that will allow me to use launchd to monitor that process for termination? > >> Morover if you have a task that you want notified on certain exit >> status this too can be handled by launchd. > >Again, how? What have I missed in the documentation? Are you suggesting that >in my app's bundle the "executable" should be a shell script that uses >launchctl to load and run the actual application? I hadn't thought of it >before, seems like it would work... I think your problem might be that you're seeing launchd as only handling launch daemons and missing launch agents (the user side of launchd.) Moreover, as John suggested this can still be accomplished by a monitor daemon as well. Then again I'm not sure where you're not seeing things clearly. > >> By that definition, how could a process ever exit abnormally? >> >> It "crashes". This isn't in result to the process processing a signal >> or completing normal execution, it's instead trapped by the kernel. >> >> A process signaled and that decide's to terminate as a result of that >> signal received is clearly not terminating abnormally. It may exit in >> a normal and orderly manner. If SIGKILL'ed or SIGSTOP'ed it still >> winds down orderly too. > >So what's your definition of "crash"??? The result of an unhandled exception, fault or trap. That is abnormal execution resulting in kernel intervention. An example: an access violation from referencing a page not in memory. > > But the bottom line is that if you have processes that you want >> notification based on termination or actions to occur that this is >> already the functionality provided as part of launchd, why not just >> use it? > >How? Given a running process, how do I use launchd to wait for its >termination??? Again, it's really unclear what you're trying to accomplish. But I don't see why you can't use launchd to accomplish this task as far as you've sketched it out to date. In fact it sounds like exactly what you want and its whole raison d'?tre. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop@iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 pgp key fingerprint: FAC0 9434 B5A5 24A8 D0AF 12B1 7840 3BE7 3736 DE0B iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. From newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu Fri Jun 30 12:29:07 2006 From: newslists at autonomy.caltech.edu (Roland Torres) Date: Fri Jun 30 12:29:13 2006 Subject: Save My Firewire Disk... Please In-Reply-To: <44A37D63.5070008@storybytes.com> References: <200606281900.k5SJ04qi015869@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <44A37D63.5070008@storybytes.com> Message-ID: <98D632B5-804F-40CB-B3B9-8AA3E1FB0AF9@autonomy.caltech.edu> On Jun 29, 2006, at 12:12 AM, EatingPie wrote: > But I've just toasted three 250 GB FW Drives and need a > tool to resurrect them. I heartily second the DiskWarrior recommendation. One important note: If they're external FW drives, be certain to check out the power supplies. We went through about a dozen drives before it dawned on us to power-test the cheap supplies that came with them. Turns out they were all deficient under load (severely under voltage). We had the manufacturer replace them with higher power units, which worked out fine. DiskWarrior was then able to resurrect the drives, all of them. Roland From pie at storybytes.com Fri Jun 30 12:33:07 2006 From: pie at storybytes.com (EatingPie) Date: Fri Jun 30 12:33:13 2006 Subject: Save My Firewire Disk... Please In-Reply-To: <3264E336-910A-496C-9EDA-9D419CBCF91E@highdesertchurch.com> References: <200606281900.k5SJ04qi015869@slowbro.omnigroup.com> <44A37D63.5070008@storybytes.com> <3264E336-910A-496C-9EDA-9D419CBCF91E@highdesertchurch.com> Message-ID: <44A57C73.6020901@storybytes.com> Thanks for the responses on this... Lots of suggestions for DiskWarrior, and this did the trick on the one drive I've tried so far... the most important one! I particularly liked this application because it didn't litter my Applications and Startup Items with garbage, ala Norton. It ran as a normal application and didn't require any special pre-installed tools that monitored drive usage over time prior to failure, again ala Norton. The only drawback... DiskWarrior isn't Universal yet. I had full backups, except for one 13 GB file. However, blowing out a 250GB drive is disastrous now simply because it's so much data... requiring literally hours to restore from the current optical media (I can't afford a tape backup system for my personal data). Once again, many thanks to all those who responded. -Pie ----------------------------------------------------------------------- EatingPie | ** STORY BYTES ** | Story Bytes better pie@storybytes.com | | than sound bites ----------------------------------------------------------------------- A mailing list of *very* short stories (2 words and up) sent weekly. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From noam at maccentricsolutions.com Fri Jun 30 17:07:16 2006 From: noam at maccentricsolutions.com (Noam Birnbaum) Date: Fri Jun 30 17:07:24 2006 Subject: networked home folders on non-boot partition Message-ID: Hey all, In Server 10.4.7, are there any additional configuration steps that need to be taken if we want to store the /Users folder on a different partition than the boot partition? (Aside from adding the /Volumes/ partition-name/Users folder as a sharepoint and mountpoint for user folders, that is.) Thanks! Happy long weekend to all! noam Noam Birnbaum http://maccentricsolutions.com/ 510.332.3828 (cell) 877.luv.macs (main)