From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 12:20:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: from anduril (anduril [198.151.161.48]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA03540; Mon, 18 May 1998 12:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805181920.MAA03540@ignem.omnigroup.com> To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com, rhapsody-dev@omnigroup.com, rhapsody-talk@omnigroup.com, omninews@omnigroup.com Subject: New rhapsody-admin mailing list Date: Mon, 18 May 98 12:20:11 -0700 From: Ken Case Reply-To: kc@omnigroup.com received: by Apple.Mailer (2.82) The rhapsody-admin mailing list is a place where you can take all of your Rhapsody administration questions, including any questions about initial installation and configuration. See http://www.omnigroup.com/MailArchive/rhapsody-admin/ for details. Ken From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 14:50:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: from wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (root@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.253.1]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA12579 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 14:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [168.150.177.113] ([168.150.177.113]) by wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (8.8.5/DCN8.8.1) with SMTP id OAA15174 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 14:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805182148.OAA15174@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> Subject: Sharing files on Rhapsody without NetInfo Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:47:15 -0700 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Adam Bridge To: "rhapsody" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I'm trying to figure out the right way to make a network shareable volume under Rhapsody DR2 with my Prelude to Rhapsody system. I've NOT setup a NetInfo database because these are the only two systems which can use it, the other computers are all MacOS machines. Following some instructions from last year I was able to setup Rhapsody and Prelude -- but things have changed a lot on the Rhapsody side. Anyone have a cookbook I can follow? Thanks Adam From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 15:02:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: from wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (root@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.253.1]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA12876 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [168.150.177.113] ([168.150.177.113]) by wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (8.8.5/DCN8.8.1) with SMTP id PAA15756 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805182200.PAA15756@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us> Subject: has anyone been able to print to AppleTalk printers? Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:59:12 -0700 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Adam Bridge To: "rhapsody" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Has anyone been able to print to a printer (like, say for instance) an HP 5MP? I can print from the Blue Box but not from DR2 since I can't create a printer. It sure seems like I should be able to though. If you have ideas I'm listening..... ab From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 15:26:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: from anduril (anduril [198.151.161.48]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA13459; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805182226.PAA13459@ignem.omnigroup.com> To: abridge@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Subject: Re: Sharing files on Rhapsody without NetInfo Cc: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com Date: Mon, 18 May 98 15:26:09 -0700 From: Ken Case Reply-To: kc@omnigroup.com received: by Apple.Mailer (2.82) > I've NOT setup a NetInfo database because these are the only two > systems which can use it, the other computers are all MacOS > machines. I highly recommend that you ALWAYS set up NetInfo, even for a simple standalone Rhapsody machine (e.g., I even use NetInfo on my portable's standalone on-the-road configuration). With NetInfo set up, you'll be able to use the built-in tools (which are much better in DR2 than they were in DR1 or Prelude) to configure your system(s). Ken From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 16:04:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: from electra.znyx.com (electra.znyx.com [209.0.10.2]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14309; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from perry (machine083.znyx.com [209.0.10.83]) by electra.znyx.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA11265; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:02:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980518160854.00960170@znyx.com> X-Sender: perry@znyx.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:08:54 -0700 To: kc@omnigroup.com, Multiple recipients of list From: Perry Gregg Subject: Re[2]: Sharing files on Rhapsody without NetInfo In-Reply-To: <199805182226.PAA13459@ignem.omnigroup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ken, My other computers are running MacOS too. Is there a benefit to NetInfo that I'm missing here? Or is it required to do something useful, even if my other systems are MacOS? --Perry At 03:29 PM 5/18/98 -0700, Ken Case wrote: >> I've NOT setup a NetInfo database because these are the only two >> systems which can use it, the other computers are all MacOS >> machines. > >I highly recommend that you ALWAYS set up NetInfo, even for a simple >standalone Rhapsody machine (e.g., I even use NetInfo on my portable's >standalone on-the-road configuration). With NetInfo set up, you'll be >able to use the built-in tools (which are much better in DR2 than they >were in DR1 or Prelude) to configure your system(s). > > Ken > From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 16:33:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: from aus-c.mp.campus.mci.net (aus-c.mp.campus.mci.net [208.140.84.23]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15010 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.96.233.154] (s05-pm61.snaustel.campus.mci.net [206.96.233.154]) by aus-c.mp.campus.mci.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA06247 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:27:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805182327.TAA06247@aus-c.mp.campus.mci.net> Subject: DR2 Questions Date: Mon, 18 May 98 19:44:38 -0500 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 From: Paul Haynes To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I am running on an 8600/300 with two internal 4GB SCSI drives. One drive has a partition with MacOS 8.1 and the other drive I have installed DR2 on a partition. Questions: 1. I installed and ran Rhapsody, then switched back to the MacOS by holding down the M key while starting up. Since the multibooter extension was not included however, I don't know how to get back to Rhapsody. Is there a key combo while starting up, or is multibooter available? 2. From Rhapsody I was only able to mount an 8.1 disk image for Blue Box compatibility. Is there a way to specify that I would rather my current 8.1 partition be the Blue Box? There is a dialog that says it has found a partition with a System folder (or something like that) but then asks if I would like to initialize it. Haven't done that in fear it would clear the disk with all of my stuff! Regards, --Paul Regards, Paul Haynes From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 16:53:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: from malasada.lava.net (root@malasada.lava.net [199.222.42.2]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15498; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lava.net(honohono037.lava.net[207.26.194.180]) (2780 bytes) by malasada.lava.net via sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:52:58 -1000 (HST) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2 built 1998-Mar-12) Received: by lava.net (NX5.67g/NX3.0.23.08.95.2M) id AA02222; Mon, 18 May 98 13:45:35 -1000 Message-Id: <9805182345.AA02222@lava.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148) From: Art Isbell Date: Mon, 18 May 98 13:45:33 -1000 To: kc@omnigroup.com Subject: Re: Need DR2 system configuration suggestions Cc: Rhapsody Administration Reply-To: arti@lava.net References: <199805181609.JAA29126@ignem.omnigroup.com> Ken Case < wrote: > I wrote: > > I am trying to build a DR2 development system on a G3/300 with > > a 4 GB internal Ultra-Wide SCSI drive (currently a single > > partition with Mac OS installed). I would love to be able to > > partition this disk, install DR2 on one partition, and MacOS > > on the other. > > The problem is that OpenFirmware doesn't recognize the UW SCSI card, > so you can't do an OpenFirmware boot from your SCSI disk. > > The workaround is to boot from a device which OpenFirmware does > recognize, such as the CD-ROM. Here are my boot parameters: > > boot-device ide0/@0:0 > boot-file ide0/@0:a,mach_kernel > boot-command 0 bootr rd=sd1 > > This boots the kernel from the CD-ROM, but then switches to using > the internal UW SCSI disk as the root device. > > The simple way to get this configuration is to select the Rhapsody > DR2 CD-ROM in Multibooter, and enter "rd=sd1" as boot flags. If it > turns out "sd1" isn't the right device, you can enter "-a -v" as boot > flags: the system will prompt you for the root device at boot time > after listing your devices. Thanks, Ken! Using your OpenFirmware boot parameters solved the problem, although I don't understand why my root device is sd1 when there's only one drive on the internal SCSI bus on my G3. But who cares - it works :-) I was concerned that with a MacOS first partition and a DR2 second partition, I would have to somehow specify the DR2 partition in the boot parameters and the above syntax doesn't illustrate an example of a root device on a particular partition. But the only Rhapsody partition on this drive must have been just automagically found. Art Isbell NeXT/MIME: arti@lava.net IDX Systems Corporation Voice/Fax: +1 808 394 0511 (for whom I don't speak) Voice Mail: +1 808 394 0495 Healthcare Info Technology US Mail: Honolulu, HI 96825-2638 From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 17:30:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16399 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:29:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA35578 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:22:30 -0700 Received: from scv2.apple.com (unverified [17.128.100.140]) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:22:20 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.235] (bierpe6.apple.com [17.202.21.235]) by scv2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19946 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:22:19 -0700 X-Sender: bierman@mail.apple.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199805182327.TAA06247@aus-c.mp.campus.mci.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:22:58 -0700 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com From: Peter Bierman Subject: Re: DR2 Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >1. I installed and ran Rhapsody, then switched back to the MacOS by >holding down the M key while starting up. Since the multibooter extension >was not included however, I don't know how to get back to Rhapsody. Is >there a key combo while starting up, or is multibooter available? The Multibooter app should be on the DR2 CD. I'm working on getting the powers that be to let me put the Multibooter INIT on the web for you all to download. -pmb "Crap does not survive in the Mac market." -James Staten, Dataquest analyst http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/applemain980505.html From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 17:33:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA16466 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA35360 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:22:34 -0700 Received: from scv2.apple.com (unverified [17.128.100.140]) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:22:19 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.235] (bierpe6.apple.com [17.202.21.235]) by scv2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA14052 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:22:17 -0700 X-Sender: bierman@mail.apple.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9805182345.AA02222@lava.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:21:21 -0700 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com From: Peter Bierman Subject: Re: Need DR2 system configuration suggestions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> The workaround is to boot from a device which OpenFirmware does >> recognize, such as the CD-ROM. Here are my boot parameters: >> boot-device ide0/@0:0 >> boot-file ide0/@0:a,mach_kernel >> boot-command 0 bootr rd=sd1 >> This boots the kernel from the CD-ROM, but then switches to using >> the internal UW SCSI disk as the root device. > Thanks, Ken! Using your OpenFirmware boot parameters solved >the problem, although I don't understand why my root device is sd1 >when there's only one drive on the internal SCSI bus on my G3. But >who cares - it works :-) The ATAPI cdrom is counted as an sd. ATAPI is scsi packets on a IDE bus, so the driver guys here register ATAPI cdroms as scsi devices. Except the ATAPI devices should be *last* in the chain, so I don't thin sd1 is doing what you expect. You probably want sd0 as your root. (sd0 would be the lowest # scsi device on a G3) If you have a SCSI device on your external bus, and then you want the SCSI drive on the Ultra wide as your root, then it would be the 2nd SCSI device, and sd1 would be correct. > I was concerned that with a MacOS first partition and a DR2 >second partition, I would have to somehow specify the DR2 partition in >the boot parameters and the above syntax doesn't illustrate an example >of a root device on a particular partition. But the only Rhapsody >partition on this drive must have been just automagically found. There can only be one Rhapsody partition on a device. Rhapsody doesn't yet support multiple Apple_Rhapsody_UFS partitions in the Apple partition map. You can have multiple UFS "partitions" *inside* the UFS "partition". The difference is that Rhapsody detects the "Apple_Rhapsody_UFS" partition as a *device*, and then the logical UFS partitions within it are looked at as sdXa, sdXb, etc... -pmb "Crap does not survive in the Mac market." -James Staten, Dataquest analyst http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/applemain980505.html From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 18:23:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: from malasada.lava.net (root@malasada.lava.net [199.222.42.2]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16981 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:22:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lava.net(honohono013.lava.net[207.26.194.156]) (4140 bytes) by malasada.lava.net via sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:22:41 -1000 (HST) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2 built 1998-Mar-12) Received: by lava.net (NX5.67g/NX3.0.23.08.95.2M) id AA02608; Mon, 18 May 98 15:19:28 -1000 Message-Id: <9805190119.AA02608@lava.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148) From: Art Isbell Date: Mon, 18 May 98 15:19:26 -1000 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com Subject: Re: Need DR2 system configuration suggestions Reply-To: arti@lava.net References: Peter Bierman < wrote: > >> The workaround is to boot from a device which OpenFirmware does > >> recognize, such as the CD-ROM. Here are my boot parameters: > >> boot-device ide0/@0:0 > >> boot-file ide0/@0:a,mach_kernel > >> boot-command 0 bootr rd=sd1 > > >> This boots the kernel from the CD-ROM, but then switches to using > >> the internal UW SCSI disk as the root device. > > > Thanks, Ken! Using your OpenFirmware boot parameters solved > >the problem, although I don't understand why my root device is sd1 > >when there's only one drive on the internal SCSI bus on my G3. But > >who cares - it works :-) > > The ATAPI cdrom is counted as an sd. ATAPI is scsi packets on a IDE > bus, so > the driver guys here register ATAPI cdroms as scsi devices. > > Except the ATAPI devices should be *last* in the chain, so I don't > thin sd1 > is doing what you expect. You probably want sd0 as your root. (sd0 > would be > the lowest # scsi device on a G3) > > If you have a SCSI device on your external bus, and then you want the > SCSI drive on the Ultra wide as your root, then it would be the 2nd > SCSI device, > and sd1 would be correct. Hmm, now I am confused, but as long as everything seems to be working, I'm not going to go mucking around. I have no external SCSI devices and the only internal devices are the 4 GB UW SCSI drive and the ATAPI CD-ROM drive. > There can only be one Rhapsody partition on a device. Rhapsody > doesn't yet > support multiple Apple_Rhapsody_UFS partitions in the Apple partition > map. You can have multiple UFS "partitions" *inside* the UFS > "partition". The > difference is that Rhapsody detects the "Apple_Rhapsody_UFS" > partition as a > *device*, and then the logical UFS partitions within it are looked at > as sdXa, sdXb, etc... Hmm, more confusion. Not being at all familiar with MacOS, maybe the way I created 2 partitions on the UW drive explains some of this. Using the MacOS utility called something like Disk Setup, I first specified 2 MacOS partitions - one for MacOS and the other for Rhapsody. But the partition graphic showed a 3rd "Extra" "unallocated" partition that I couldn't make zero-size. So I chose the 1 partition option which also had the extra unallocated partition, and I made that partition a MacOS partition. I made the first partition only 300 MB and installed MacOS on it. The second MacOS partition that started out as an extra unallocated partition occupies the remainder of the 4.3 GB disk. I installed Rhapsody on that partition. I can boot to either MacOS or Rhapsody. I can remove the Rhapsody CD-ROM after the Rhapsody boot process completes, so I doubt that the CD-ROM is the root device :-) By the way, nice choice of a high-quality IBM DRRS UW SCSI drive, Apple! Unless I've become so unfamiliar with SCSI drives these days that I'm being fooled, this drive should be much higher quality than the typical cheap OEM quality Seagate drive like that installed in the last computer I bought, a high-end PC clone. That drive failed before its 1-year warranty expired. Art Isbell NeXT/MIME: arti@lava.net IDX Systems Corporation Voice/Fax: +1 808 394 0511 (for whom I don't speak) Voice Mail: +1 808 394 0495 Healthcare Info Technology US Mail: Honolulu, HI 96825-2638 From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 18:51:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: from erinet.com (mail2.erinet.com [207.0.229.19]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17602 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.90.119.25] (dlp790.dayton.eri.net [207.90.119.25]) by erinet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00798 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 21:43:51 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: jhopper@mail.erinet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9805190119.AA02608@lava.net> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:52:03 -0400 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com From: jim hopper Subject: DR2 install problesm on G3/300 I tried today installing DR2 on my new G3/300. found a number of problems. My hardware stock G3/300 that comes with dual 4.5 mb ultriwide disks, and ultimite res video card and 100mb ethernet.128mb of memory, external 2gb IBM drive, external aps dat drive, umax astro 1200s scanner. internal disks formatted with softraid that comes with g3/300. zip disk 1. it didnt like it that my external disk (non-apple) had same scsi id as internal disks. So i moved external ID to ID=3 2. Rhapsody installer seems to insist that the disk be formatted for macOS before it was recognized (i used HD toolkit) 3. when the installer restarts system i t always hangs the system and i have to power down then power back up and start mac. 4. once i moved hard disk to id=3, and removed scanner from scsi chaing i was able to install dr2. but it hangs on mouseclicks from time to time and nothing but reboot fixes it. 5. it looks like video is set to 640x480 for some reason 6. system keeps giving me messages that drive is unreadbale and do i want to intialize it. since these come in pairs i assume they are my interal ultrawide drives. by far the most disturbing thing is the system freezing, but the error messages about the ultriwide disks is also a problem. some questions: 1. is the ultimate res card apple ships with g3/300 supported? 2. possibly my external drive is a problem, but it worked fin with DR1. 3. why does scanner cause installer to hang when it goes out to search for which disk to install onto? thanks jim At a recent computer software engineering course in the US, the participants were given an awkward question to answer. "If you had just boarded an airliner and discovered that your team of programmers had been responsible for the flight control software, how many of you would disembark immediately?" unknown author From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 19:08:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: from criamon (criamon [198.151.161.12]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA18252 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805190208.TAA18252@ignem.omnigroup.com> To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com Subject: Re: SCSI numbering and booting from the CD-ROM Date: Mon, 18 May 98 20:08:29 -0700 From: Ken Case Reply-To: kc@omnigroup.com received: by Apple.Mailer (2.82) > Except the ATAPI devices should be *last* in the chain, so I > don't thin sd1 is doing what you expect. You probably want sd0 > as your root. (sd0 would be the lowest # scsi device on a G3) I believe that DR2 always orders the boot device to be the first drive of its kind. So, when booting from the CD-ROM, sd0 refers to the CD-ROM while sd1 refers to the lowest of the remaining devices on the chain (typically your internal hard drive). Ken From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 19:14:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18386 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16092 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:06:04 -0700 Received: from scv4.apple.com (unverified [17.128.100.142]) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:05:54 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.235] (bierpe6.apple.com [17.202.21.235]) by scv4.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA34078 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:05:52 -0700 X-Sender: bierman@mail.apple.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:08:24 -0700 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com From: Peter Bierman Subject: Re: DR2 install problesm on G3/300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >1. it didnt like it that my external disk (non-apple) had same scsi id as >internal disks. So i moved external ID to ID=3 What part of the install didn't like this? The Mac OS installer, or the scanning code that runs at the very first Rhap boot? >2. Rhapsody installer seems to insist that the disk be formatted for macOS >before it was recognized (i used HD toolkit) This was a descision we made to simplify installation. Comments about this are welcome to the normal feedback address (not me!) >3. when the installer restarts system i t always hangs the system and i >have to power down then power back up and start mac. How long are you waiting? What is the symptom of the hang? A black screen? Or is it hung in Mac OS? The G3 server (tower) seems to need to wait up to 30 seconds before it decides to boot Rhapsody sometimes. >5. it looks like video is set to 640x480 for some reason Can you change it from the Monitors preferences panel? >6. system keeps giving me messages that drive is unreadbale and do i want >to intialize it. since these come in pairs i assume they are my interal >ultrawide drives. Is this the message that says "I found an HFS disk that I can't use", with the default set to "ignore"? The message means exactly what it says. It is finding your existing Mac OS disks, and offering to init them to Rhapsody for you, since it can't display HFS disks yet. Clicking ignore is what you want to do, and AFAIK, there's no way to give it a list of disks to always ignore. >2. possibly my external drive is a problem, but it worked fin with DR1. >3. why does scanner cause installer to hang when it goes out to search for >which disk to install onto? It sounds like your SCSI chain is not in good shape. Try changing the cables, making sure that the first and last devices are terminated properly, you have quality cables, etc... SCSI is voodoo, and too many companies ship crappy SCSI cables that are the cause of most mysterious hangs and symptoms like you're describing. -pmb "Crap does not survive in the Mac market." -James Staten, Dataquest analyst http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/applemain980505.html From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 19:21:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: from criamon (criamon [198.151.161.12]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA18695; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:21:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805190221.TAA18695@ignem.omnigroup.com> To: Perry Gregg Subject: Re: Why you should always use NetInfo Cc: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com In-Reply-To: <199805182226.PAA13459@ignem.omnigroup.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 98 20:21:08 -0700 From: Ken Case Reply-To: kc@omnigroup.com received: by Apple.Mailer (2.82) > My other computers are running MacOS too. Is there a benefit to > NetInfo that I'm missing here? Or is it required to do something > useful, even if my other systems are MacOS? Rhapsody replaces the standard UNIX system configuration files (in /etc) with NetInfo, a distributed hierarchical database. Even if you aren't using the distributed feature of NetInfo (i.e., you're only using NetInfo on a single system), it's still useful to use the hierarchical database (as opposed to manipulating the flat files in /etc). Most of the configuration tools manipulate your local NetInfo database, and know nothing about the UNIX flat files. The database is also richer than the flat files: for example, the NetInfo's "/users" hierarchy contains more information than the /etc/passwd file does, and the "/printers" contains more than /etc/printcap. So if you don't run NetInfo, you're not only making your system harder to administrate (because the tools no longer function), you're also crippling your system (because some of the features are supersets of the original UNIX functionality). Of course, when you do run NetInfo, you also get the bonus advantage of being able to share common configuration parameters (such as those users and printers) with any additional Rhapsody systems you might add to your network in the future. Ken From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 19:29:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: from criamon (criamon [198.151.161.12]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA18999; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805190229.TAA18999@ignem.omnigroup.com> To: acrobatmedia@ecu.campus.mci.net Subject: Re: Making Blue Box use your current 8.1 partition Cc: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com Date: Mon, 18 May 98 20:28:39 -0700 From: Ken Case Reply-To: kc@omnigroup.com received: by Apple.Mailer (2.82) > 2. From Rhapsody I was only able to mount an 8.1 disk image for > Blue Box compatibility. Is there a way to specify that I would > rather my current 8.1 partition be the Blue Box? You must first prepare the hard disk by copying "System Folder:BlueBox" and "System Folder:Extensions:BlueDaemon" from the current boot disk. Then you can simply use the "Startup Disk" control panel to set your 8.1 partition to be the Blue Box startup disk. Ken From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 19:36:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19175 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:36:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [209.98.9.194] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id VAA08638 (8.8.6/50); Mon, 18 May 1998 21:36:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199805190236.VAA08638@mail1.doit.wisc.edu> Subject: DR2 Install Problems Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:36:00 -0500 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Jeff Krueger To: "Multiple recipients of list" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi all, Just to add to the list of DR2 install problems, I've also experienced the apparent "hang" while booting. Upon closer inspection, however (achieved by doing a -v for boot options) I discovered that my SCSI bus is resetting which causes all kinds of odd errors. Here are the results to five different configurations of my system. All SCSI devices were connected to the fast internal SCSI bus on my 7300: SCENARIO ONE: ------------- SCSI ID 0 Seagate ST52160N with "Remote Start" disabled on jumper block (default) SCSI ID 1 Quantum Fireball (came with PM 7300/200) SCSI ID 3 CD-ROM When the boot process came to registering the SCSI devices, here's roughly what happened: ...blah blah miscellaneous boot messages... ... SEAGATE ST52620N *** This is where you get the really long wait *** Registering as SD0 TARGET 0 LUN 0 <--- as best as i can remember ... blah blah Disk not ready <--- what the hell? ... blah blah It doesn't even "see" the Quantum drive, and then the really funky stuff starts happening: I kept getting a message saying the SCSI bus was reset, which also was causing me to get repetitive I/O Timeout errors and Read errors from both the CD-ROM and the hard drives while the boot process continues. SCENARIO TWO: ------------- SCSI ID 1 Quantum Fireball SCSI ID 3 CD-ROM SCSI ID 4 Seagate ST52160N with "Remote Start" disabled on jumper block (default) I did this rearrangment to see if I could get it to register the Quantum drive. Now during the boot sequence the Quantum drive was registered as SD0, the CD-ROM as SD1, and the Seagate as SD2 after the same sequence of messages in "scenario one." Trying to install does not work because I continuously got errors saying the SCSI bus was reset and Read errors from the CD-ROM. (?!?) SCENARIO THREE: --------------- SCSI ID 1 Quantum Fireball SCSI ID 3 CD-ROM Without the Seagate drive, installation was flawless. DR2 boots and runs just fine. *** Now that DR2 was successfully installed, I reconnected the Seagate in the SCSI chain: SCENARIO FOUR: -------------- SCSI ID 0 Seagate ST52160N with "Remote Start" disabled on jumper block (default) SCSI ID 1 Quantum Fireball w/DR2 installed SCSI ID 3 CD-ROM Now we're back to the boot delays and the errors. DR2 will not load properly. SCENARIO FIVE: -------------- SCSI ID 0 Seagate ST52160N with "Remote Start" *enabled* on jumper block SCSI ID 1 Quantum Firebale w/DR2 installed SCSI ID 3 CD-ROM Seagate drive does not spin up when system is powered on because "Remote Start" is enabled. When registering devices during the DR2 boot sequence, Rhapsody spins up the Seagate drive and procedes without delays. Sometimes booting completes successfully; Workspace manager loads. Other times I get into the WS manager and I experience long periods where the system blocks and is unresponsive. My guess is we're back to the SCSI bus resetting. Mac OS is installed on the Seagate drive, and the problem is that the drive doesn't spin up when cold booting, so I can't boot Mac OS off of it--a good reason to disable "Remote Start"! But yet another "oddity"--the few times I *have* successfully gotten DR2 to work with the Seagate drive installed, when I have rebooted the system, I'm back to the problem with the startup delays while trying to register the Seagate as SD0. Conclusion: DR2 "likes" to spin up my Seagate drive when it boots, and if it can't, the SCSI bus is continually reset whenever anything tries to access a SCSI device. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. I originally thought it might be a termination problem, but I don't think that's the case. In addition, DR1 installs without a hitch. Jeff ------ Jeff Krueger Computer Science Major, UW-Madison jakrueg1@students.wisc.edu jkrueger@cs.wisc.edu jeffk@kagi.com "It is easy to convert a bug to a feature: document it." (The Microsoft Employee Handbook, p.215, section B, article VII) From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 19:56:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19866 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA30860 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:49:47 -0700 Received: from scv3.apple.com (unverified [17.128.100.121]) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:49:42 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.235] (bierpe6.apple.com [17.202.21.235]) by scv3.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11892 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:49:41 -0700 X-Sender: bierman@mail.apple.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199805190236.VAA08638@mail1.doit.wisc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:52:22 -0700 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com From: Peter Bierman Subject: Re: DR2 Install Problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. I originally thought >it might be a termination problem, but I don't think that's the case. In >addition, DR1 installs without a hitch. I'll bet you a pokey stix and peperoni rolls combo that it's termination and/or SCSI cabling. You do want the disk spun up on power on. The fact that rhapsody "likes" to spin up the disk is only that by having rhapsody spin up the disk at boot, the disk isn't ready when the kernel does it's probing, and therefore the disk is ignored until workspace probes again. Either your SCSI chain is messed, or rhapsody's disk driver just doesn't work with that segate drive. A reminder for everyone: SCSI chains should be terminated on the first and last device on the chain. If there's only one device, it gets one terminator. Termination *power* is not termination. Terminator resistors can be hiding on your drives if you pulled them from another computer. Just because a SCSI setup works fine with one OS, or worked fine for weeks, doesn't mean it will work fine forever. I've seen people use untermiated 20' SCSI chains for months, only to turn on their machine one moring with *nothing* changed, and have it completely refuse to work. -pmb "Crap does not survive in the Mac market." -James Staten, Dataquest analyst http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/applemain980505.html From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 20:59:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: from erinet.com (mail2.erinet.com [207.0.229.19]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21492 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 20:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.90.119.25] (dlp790.dayton.eri.net [207.90.119.25]) by erinet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20988; Mon, 18 May 1998 23:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: jhopper@mail.erinet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 00:00:09 -0400 To: bierman@apple.com, Multiple recipients of list From: jim hopper Subject: Re: DR2 install problesm on G3/300 At 7:17 PM -0700 5/18/98, Peter Bierman wrote: >>1. it didnt like it that my external disk (non-apple) had same scsi id as >>internal disks. So i moved external ID to ID=3 > >What part of the install didn't like this? The Mac OS installer, or the >scanning code that runs at the very first Rhap boot? after restarting from the installer, the little colored beach ball just spun and spun, after 1 hour i started over and used command v to see what was going on. it was halted after saying invalid label or somethign about that followed by drive size and such. (for boot disk). the only thing that got it going was changing scsi id. > > >>2. Rhapsody installer seems to insist that the disk be formatted for macOS >>before it was recognized (i used HD toolkit) > >This was a descision we made to simplify installation. Comments about this >are welcome to the normal feedback address (not me!) Thanks. > > >>3. when the installer restarts system i t always hangs the system and i >>have to power down then power back up and start mac. > >How long are you waiting? What is the symptom of the hang? A black screen? >Or is it hung in Mac OS? The G3 server (tower) seems to need to wait up to >30 seconds before it decides to boot Rhapsody sometimes. A couple minutes. once it even went so far as to power down the computer. I will try letting it go longer. > > >>5. it looks like video is set to 640x480 for some reason > >Can you change it from the Monitors preferences panel? didnt try that thanks for the idea. > > > >>2. possibly my external drive is a problem, but it worked fin with DR1. >>3. why does scanner cause installer to hang when it goes out to search for >>which disk to install onto? > >It sounds like your SCSI chain is not in good shape. Try changing the >cables, making sure that the first and last devices are terminated >properly, you have quality cables, etc... > >SCSI is voodoo, and too many companies ship crappy SCSI cables that are the >cause of most mysterious hangs and symptoms like you're describing. > very true, and the umax cable was the culprit i found on a friends machine earlier this eve. so i will leave it out of system. but even with it out of the loop system is still just hanging at random times after i enter username and password. freeze seems to always follow a mouse click. is there any sensitivity to older mice? I like my old mouse and keyboard and gve the new ones to my fiance with my 8500 when the g3 got here. thanks for any help. jim At a recent computer software engineering course in the US, the participants were given an awkward question to answer. "If you had just boarded an airliner and discovered that your team of programmers had been responsible for the flight control software, how many of you would disembark immediately?" unknown author From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 21:16:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: from erinet.com (mail2.erinet.com [207.0.229.19]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21848 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 21:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.90.119.25] (dlp790.dayton.eri.net [207.90.119.25]) by erinet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA22763; Tue, 19 May 1998 00:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: jhopper@mail.erinet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 00:18:42 -0400 To: bierman@apple.com, Multiple recipients of list From: jim hopper Subject: Termination Reading Peter response to my questions about installing on g3 made me think that perhaps i don't understand scsi termination. Peter suggested that i need to terminate the first and last device on the chain. I knew that but had always assumed that the external scsi port was internally terminated. this is a big assumption on my part i now realize. so my question in the g3/300 with the ultrawide scsi card do i need an external terinator to start my external scsi chain? This could answer a lot of questions ;-0 thanks jim At a recent computer software engineering course in the US, the participants were given an awkward question to answer. "If you had just boarded an airliner and discovered that your team of programmers had been responsible for the flight control software, how many of you would disembark immediately?" unknown author From rhapsody-admin-request Mon May 18 23:58:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: from digifix.com (digifix.digifix.com [204.138.245.1]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26206 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 23:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sanguish@localhost) by digifix.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA08329 for rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com; Tue, 19 May 1998 02:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805190658.CAA08329@digifix.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.2mach (Enhance 2.1) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148) From: Scott Anguish Date: Tue, 19 May 98 02:58:16 -0400 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com Subject: Installation success! Using a Kinesis Keyboard Reply-To: sanguish@digifix.com I'm not the only one that has encountered this, so I thought I'd mention this. After pulling my hair out for the entire day, I've finally found the solution! I'm using a Kinesis keyboard via a Cybex Autoview Commander 8-port box that is connected to an 8600 via a Raritan Mac Guardian (a nifty box that allows you to hook Intel keyboard/mouse and video to a Mac).. I was such in all caps lock mode and was unable to get it out of that. The problem was that I needed to hit Caps Lock twice (like on the 3400), but since I have had the Caps Lock key mapped to Control forever this was not something that was readily evident (especially since the capslock light on the keyboard doesn't light up). The solution was to map make the caps lock key available again (I remapped it to a funky key I never use) and then hit it twice upon booting.. Then all was well.. Since this happened on the 3400 as well, I thought this might be of interest to the general group. From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 02:28:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: from vlsi.cs.caltech.edu (vlsi.cs.caltech.edu [131.215.131.129]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA28385 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 02:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from babylon.caltech.edu by vlsi.cs.caltech.edu (4.1/1.34.1) id AA11269; Tue, 19 May 98 02:27:43 PDT Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 02:27:37 -0700 From: "Daniel M. Zimmerman" To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com Subject: Anonymous FTP on DR2? Message-Id: <2071308.3104533657@babylon.caltech.edu> X-Mailer: Mulberry (MacOS) [1.4.0a4, s/n U-300893] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am unable to get anonymous FTP to work properly under dr2... I created the ftp account and set everything up properly, and anonymous users can log in and change directories and download files... but they can't "ls", because ls refuses to work. Clearly, this is very inconvenient, and I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this and/or had any suggestions for fixing it... Also, how does one go about setting a search path for DNS? I know how to get a search path of length 1 (ie: search my own domain by default), but no longer... I'd like to have a search path including, in my case, both "caltech.edu" and "cs.caltech.edu", but I've no idea how to do it... Thanks... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Zimmerman Caltech Infospheres Research Group M/S 256-80 - Caltech http://babylon.caltech.edu/~dmz/ Pasadena, California 91125 USA dmz@cs.caltech.edu From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 03:56:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: from pop.tamu.edu (pop.tamu.edu [128.194.103.4]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA29511 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 03:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from geopsun.tamu.edu (GEOPSUN.TAMU.EDU [128.194.195.16]) by pop.tamu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA21507 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 05:55:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [128.194.195.119] (shiva1.tamu.edu) by geopsun.tamu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18686; Tue, 19 May 98 05:54:53 CDT Message-Id: <9805191054.AA18686@geopsun.tamu.edu> Subject: RE: DR2 Install Problems Date: Tue, 19 May 98 05:51:45 -0500 X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Gibson To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >SCENARIO ONE: >------------- >SCSI ID 0 Seagate ST52160N with "Remote Start" disabled on jumper block >(default) >SCSI ID 1 Quantum Fireball (came with PM 7300/200) >SCSI ID 3 CD-ROM > >When the boot process came to registering the SCSI devices, here's >roughly what happened: > >...blah blah miscellaneous boot messages... >... SEAGATE ST52620N >*** This is where you get the really long wait *** >Registering as SD0 TARGET 0 LUN 0 <--- as best as i can remember >... blah blah >Disk not ready <--- what the hell? >... blah blah Etc, etc, etc. I nearly went insane yesterday with EXACTLY the same problem with a SEAGATE ST52620N drive. I was trying to install DR2 on an 8600/200 with an extra _internal_ 2Gb hard drive (the Seagate - and, yeah, I remember Apple encourages external HD's, but when I first installed DR1 the external SCSI bus was broken). Doing a -v boot during the install, the machine flies past the primary disk (an IBM model from the Apple factory), the CD-ROM, and the internal ZIP drive, but then hangs for unpredictably long periods with the aforementioned error messages while checking the Seagate. I have not yet been able to successfully complete an installation, since the procedure is not able to correctly find my desired disk (the Seagate). I did have the internal Zip drive replaced a couple of weeks ago (under warranty-"click of death"), so perhaps the termination or cable connection was not properly reset. I do have one other question though - I saw another message somewhere on the Rhapsody lists suggesting that Seagate drives were of lower quality than other makes; have others had similar problems with Seagate drives or should I concentrate on SCSI connection/termination problems? (The question is selfish-the Seagate drive is still under warranty, and I could replace it if necessary). Thanks for any suggestions. Rick Gibson From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 06:13:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: from comm1.umaryland.edu (comm1.umaryland.edu [134.192.1.5]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA01104 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 06:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from umaryland.edu (umaryland.edu [134.192.64.84]) by comm1.umaryland.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08321 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from umaryland.edu (umaryland.edu [134.192.64.84]) by umaryland.edu (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09176; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3539BF39.DDAF67E0@umaryland.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:06:33 +0000 From: Andrew delaTorre Reply-To: adelator@umaryland.edu Organization: University of Maryland X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: DR2 on a PowerCenterPro Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've managed to install DR2, but when I try to boot it up it hangs about 30 seconds into the boot process. I got it to install using Boot Vars and the Rhapsody Control Panel. Booting off the CD-rom with the following settings Rhapsody Control Panel CD-rom is at SCSI ID 3 internal is unchecked arg is 0 bootr rd=sd1 -v Boot Vars boot dev scsi/sd@3:0 boot file scsi/sd@3:A,mach_kernal boot command 0 bootr sd=sd0 this seemed to get DR@ to install at the end of the installation the following parameters were given nvramrc /usr/share/nvram/8500 boot dev DKIOCGLOCATION failed 0 boot file DKIOCGLOCATION failed 0,mach_kernal boot comm 0 bootr I then changed Boot Vars and thr Rhapsody Control Panel to reflect the drive DR2 is installed on as such Boot Vars boot dev scsi/sd0:0 boot file scsi/sd@0:6,mach_kernal boot command 0 bootr sd=sd1 Rhapsody CP drive 0 external arg 0 bootr sd=sd1 When I try to boot up I get the Welcome to Rhapsody screen and the rotating ball, but 30 sec into the process it hangs Any suggestins appreciated Andrew From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 08:53:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: from ns.calvacom.fr (ns.calvacom.fr [194.2.168.1]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA04677 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [195.6.162.133] (mas05.calvacom.fr [195.6.162.133]) by ns.calvacom.fr (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA20950 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 17:53:16 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199805191553.RAA20950@ns.calvacom.fr> Subject: DR2 on a G3/300 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:54:50 +0100 x-sender: bh40@mail.calvacom.fr x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Benjamin Herrenschmidt To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I didn't received DR2 yet but I'm preparing my disks for it right now (since the are not filled with crap yet). I plan (in fact, I currently have no choice) to use a partition on one of the UW disks for the root. I read on this list that OF cannot boot on those disks. Using the CD for booting all the time is an issue but I was wondering if there was a way to put the mach kernel somewhere else. I have little room free on an external SCSI disk (in HFS partition and out of partitions). Can OF on the G3 load the kernel from one of those ? How ? -- E-Mail: BenH. Web : From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 09:33:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05622 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:33:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA32732 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:26:24 -0700 Received: from scv1.apple.com (unverified [17.128.100.139]) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:26:19 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.235] (bierpe6.apple.com [17.202.21.235]) by scv1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11970; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:26:19 -0700 X-Sender: bierman@mail.apple.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199805190650.BAA15356@mail1.doit.wisc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:15:27 -0700 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com, Jeff Krueger From: Peter Bierman Subject: Re: DR2 Install Problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Motherboard, ID7--internally terminated (right?) Nope. CPU is not usually terminated. Most people fall into this trap because 90% of the macs that shipped have one scsi bus, and one internal (terminated) drive, which provides the first terminator. You need 2 terminators per bus, unless there is only ONE device connected to the bus. G3 machines have one bus, unless they have the PCI ultra SCSI card, in which case the ultra scsi bus and the noraml scsi bus are separate. 7/8/9500 machines have TWO SCSI busses, and usually the CDROM and internal hard disk are on separate busses, and both come terminated, providing the first terminated device for each bus. So the simple rule of thumb: always, always, always check your busses, cables, and termination before blaming the OS. :-) -pmb "Crap does not survive in the Mac market." -James Staten, Dataquest analyst http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/applemain980505.html From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 09:36:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05716 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA32536 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:26:35 -0700 Received: from scv1.apple.com (unverified [17.128.100.139]) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:26:22 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.235] (bierpe6.apple.com [17.202.21.235]) by scv1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18912 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:26:22 -0700 X-Sender: bierman@mail.apple.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199805191553.RAA20950@ns.calvacom.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:28:08 -0700 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com From: Peter Bierman Subject: Re: DR2 on a G3/300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I didn't received DR2 yet but I'm preparing my disks for it right now >(since the are not filled with crap yet). > >I plan (in fact, I currently have no choice) to use a partition on one of >the UW disks for the root. I read on this list that OF cannot boot on >those disks. Using the CD for booting all the time is an issue but I was >wondering if there was a way to put the mach kernel somewhere else. I >have little room free on an external SCSI disk (in HFS partition and out >of partitions). >Can OF on the G3 load the kernel from one of those ? How ? Do a minimal rhapsody DR2 install to the external disk. That will put down the secondary loader and kernel. Once you have that, you could go back and use something like pdisk to resize the UFS partition to something very small (10MB), newfs it, and copy the mach_kernel from the CD or internal disk to the external disk. The only tricky part is getting the secondary loader on the external disk, since it's a special partition that the installer puts there. If you're feeling really UNIX-happy, you could look at /etc/rc.cdrom and /etc/rc.cdrom.ppc-extras on the DR2 CD, and try to recreate how I do it. Then you could use a disk that the installer wouldn't let you install onto (like a 20MB disk). You *can't* load the kernal or secondary loader as files from an HFS partition. -pmb "Crap does not survive in the Mac market." -James Staten, Dataquest analyst http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/applemain980505.html From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 10:47:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: from erinet.com (mail2.erinet.com [207.0.229.19]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09331 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from portal.west.saic.com (portal.west.saic.com [198.151.12.15]) by erinet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA02345; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from HopperJ2.dayton.saic.com by portal.west.saic.com via smtpd (for mail2.erinet.com [207.0.229.19]) with SMTP; 19 May 1998 17:46:34 UT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: jhopper@mail.erinet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:47:50 +0100 To: bierman@apple.com, Multiple recipients of list From: jim hopper Subject: Re: DR2 Install Problems I checked with my local dealer who does the work on my machines. he tells me the g3/300 is supposed to be self terminating. he does not have any internal termination blocks in his parts list. is he confused? I have a terminator which plugs into the port and another device can lug into it (inline). is that what i should use as the first thing on my scsi chain, with the rest of my chain plugged into this, then last device terminated as well? thanks jim -------------- At 9:35 AM -0700 5/19/98, Peter Bierman wrote: >>Motherboard, ID7--internally terminated (right?) > >Nope. CPU is not usually terminated. Most people fall into this trap >because 90% of the macs that shipped have one scsi bus, and one internal >(terminated) drive, which provides the first terminator. > >You need 2 terminators per bus, unless there is only ONE device connected >to the bus. > >G3 machines have one bus, unless they have the PCI ultra SCSI card, in >which case the ultra scsi bus and the noraml scsi bus are separate. > >7/8/9500 machines have TWO SCSI busses, and usually the CDROM and internal >hard disk are on separate busses, and both come terminated, providing the >first terminated device for each bus. > >So the simple rule of thumb: always, always, always check your busses, >cables, and termination before blaming the OS. :-) > >-pmb > >"Crap does not survive in the Mac market." -James Staten, Dataquest analyst > http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/applemain980505.html At a recent computer software engineering course in the US, the participants were given an awkward question to answer. "If you had just boarded an airliner and discovered that your team of programmers had been responsible for the flight control software, how many of you would disembark immediately?" unknown author From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 11:20:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10481 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA14408 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:14:30 -0700 Received: from scv4.apple.com (unverified [17.128.100.142]) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:14:27 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.235] (bierpe6.apple.com [17.202.21.235]) by scv4.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA33918; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:14:26 -0700 X-Sender: bierman@mail.apple.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:17:00 -0700 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com, jim hopper From: Peter Bierman Subject: Re: DR2 Install Problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I checked with my local dealer who does the work on my machines. he tells >me the g3/300 is supposed to be self terminating. he does not have any >internal termination blocks in his parts list. is he confused? I checked the hardware tech note on http://devworld.apple.com/, and indeed, the G3 machines have an active terminator on the motherboard. As for the 8500 and 7500 (people should look up their own machines here), there seems to be termination on the motherboard, but a comment there that "termination is turned off when a device is connected" doesn't make sense. I guess I wasn't paying attention when we started putting termination on the motherboard. :-) Sigh. So it boils down to SCSI Voodoo. Having the wrong number of terminators won't actively *harm* any of your gear, so the best shot might just be to try different termination configs. -pmb "Crap does not survive in the Mac market." -James Staten, Dataquest analyst http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/applemain980505.html From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 11:34:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11228 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11250 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:23:16 -0700 Received: from scv2.apple.com (unverified [17.128.100.140]) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:23:08 -0700 Received: from [17.184.72.74] (caveman5.claris.com [17.184.72.74]) by scv2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA15930; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:23:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199805191823.LAA15930@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: Termination Date: Tue, 19 May 98 11:23:06 -0700 x-sender: rcave@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Richard Cave To: , "Multiple recipients of list" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Reading Peter response to my questions about installing on g3 made me think >that perhaps i don't understand scsi termination. Peter suggested that i >need to terminate the first and last device on the chain. I knew that but >had always assumed that the external scsi port was internally terminated. >this is a big assumption on my part i now realize. so my question in the >g3/300 with the ultrawide scsi card do i need an external terinator to >start my external scsi chain? This could answer a lot of questions ;-0 >From Apple's Tech info library (Article ID 24330), referring to the ultrawide scsi installed in the G3s: Warning Do not connect any SCSI devices to the external 68-pin SCSI-3 connector or the internal 50-pin SCSI-2 connector on the PCI card that supports the internal hard disk. Connecting even one external SCSI device to the external 68-pin connector extends the overall cable length of the SCSI bus beyond the limit for which error-free operation can be guaranteed; the combined length of the internal cable and the external cable reduces the reliability of all the devices connected to the Ultra Wide SCSI-3 bus. Connecting a device to the internal 50-pin SCSI-2 connector will cause your Ultra Wide SCSI-3 devices to transfer data at the slower, SCSI-2 rate. From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 11:39:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11777 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [209.98.9.182] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id NAA13434 (8.8.6/50); Tue, 19 May 1998 13:39:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199805191839.NAA13434@mail1.doit.wisc.edu> Subject: Re: DR2 Install Problems 7/8/9x00 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:39:21 -0500 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Jeff Krueger To: "Peter Bierman" , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >As for the 8500 and 7500 (people should look up their own machines here), >there seems to be termination on the motherboard So then it is only necessary to terminate the last device, right? I decided to switch the SCSI cable from the SCSI-2 port to the "slow" SCSI port on the motherboard. Now everything works just dandy. The Seagate drive actually has an Ultra-SCSI interface on it, but that wouldn't make any difference, would it? Thanks, Jeff ------ Jeff Krueger Computer Science Major, UW-Madison jakrueg1@students.wisc.edu jkrueger@cs.wisc.edu jeffk@kagi.com "It is easy to convert a bug to a feature: document it." (The Microsoft Employee Handbook, p.215, section B, article VII) From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 11:53:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: from malasada.lava.net (root@malasada.lava.net [199.222.42.2]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12664 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 11:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lava.net(honohono022.lava.net[207.26.194.165]) (2179 bytes) by malasada.lava.net via sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:53:10 -1000 (HST) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2 built 1998-Mar-12) Received: by lava.net (NX5.67g/NX3.0.23.08.95.2M) id AA00519; Tue, 19 May 98 08:41:14 -1000 Message-Id: <9805191841.AA00519@lava.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148) From: Art Isbell Date: Tue, 19 May 98 08:41:11 -1000 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com Subject: Re: DR2 Install Problems Reply-To: arti@lava.net References: <9805191054.AA18686@geopsun.tamu.edu> Gibson < wrote: > I saw another message somewhere > on > the Rhapsody lists suggesting that Seagate drives were of lower > quality > than other makes; have others had similar problems with Seagate > drives or > should I concentrate on SCSI connection/termination problems? (The > question is selfish-the Seagate drive is still under warranty, and I > could replace it if necessary). I stated that OEM-quality drives by Seagate typically installed in PC clones seem to be of lower quality than the IBM DRRS drive installed by Apple in my G3. These drives (manufactured not only by Seagate) tend to have shorter warranty periods (1 - 3 years instead of 5), smaller mean time between failure ratings (i.e., they aren't designed to last as long and so probably won't), and lower performance ratings (lower angular velocity, greater seek times, lower data transfer rates, etc.). In the very competitive disk drive market, you probably stand a better chance of getting what you pay for. Seagate also makes very high-quality drives. And IBM may make lower-quality OEM drives as well - the PC clone market is probably difficult for drive manufacturers to resist, and cheap sells. Art Isbell NeXT/MIME: arti@lava.net IDX Systems Corporation Voice/Fax: +1 808 394 0511 (for whom I don't speak) Voice Mail: +1 808 394 0495 Healthcare Info Technology US Mail: Honolulu, HI 96825-2638 From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 12:03:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: from pop.tamu.edu (pop.tamu.edu [128.194.103.4]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13130 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:03:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from geopsun.tamu.edu (GEOPSUN.TAMU.EDU [128.194.195.16]) by pop.tamu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA25414 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:02:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [128.194.195.71] (nicaea.tamu.edu) by geopsun.tamu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25654; Tue, 19 May 98 14:01:48 CDT Message-Id: <9805191901.AA25654@geopsun.tamu.edu> Subject: Re: DR2 Install Problems Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:02:50 -0500 X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Rick Gibson To: "Multiple recipients of list" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >From Peter Bierman, on 5/19/98 1:21 PM >As for the 8500 and 7500 (people should look up their own machines here), >there seems to be termination on the motherboard, but a comment there that >"termination is turned off when a device is connected" doesn't make sense. > >I guess I wasn't paying attention when we started putting termination on >the motherboard. :-) > >Sigh. So it boils down to SCSI Voodoo. Having the wrong number of >terminators won't actively *harm* any of your gear, so the best shot might >just be to try different termination configs. I am an "8600" person, so I supposedly have termination on my original hard drive and the motherboard (as I understand it). Any tips on how to check and/or change termination settings on this internal bus? Rick Gibson =================================================== Texas A&M University Dept. of Geology & Geophysics MS 3115 College Station, TX 77843-3115 Tel: 409 862 8653 Fax: 409 845 6162 =================================================== From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 12:25:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: from erinet.com (mail2.erinet.com [207.0.229.19]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14292 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from portal.west.saic.com (portal.west.saic.com [198.151.12.15]) by erinet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA15357; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from HopperJ2.dayton.saic.com by portal.west.saic.com via smtpd (for mail2.erinet.com [207.0.229.19]) with SMTP; 19 May 1998 19:24:55 UT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: jhopper@mail.erinet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199805191823.LAA15930@scv2.apple.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:26:14 +0100 To: richard_cave@apple.com, Multiple recipients of list From: jim hopper Subject: Re: Termination To summerize i think there is an internal 50 pin, and external 25 pin, and external 68pin scsi-3 ports as well as the internal scsi-3 port the ultra wide drives are attached to. so the external 25 pin should be good to go, correct? Thats where my scsi chain is attached. thanks jim At 11:38 AM -0700 5/19/98, Richard Cave wrote: >>Reading Peter response to my questions about installing on g3 made me think >>that perhaps i don't understand scsi termination. Peter suggested that i >>need to terminate the first and last device on the chain. I knew that but >>had always assumed that the external scsi port was internally terminated. >>this is a big assumption on my part i now realize. so my question in the >>g3/300 with the ultrawide scsi card do i need an external terinator to >>start my external scsi chain? This could answer a lot of questions ;-0 > >>From Apple's Tech info library (Article ID 24330), referring to the >ultrawide scsi installed in the G3s: > >Warning Do not connect any SCSI devices to the external 68-pin SCSI-3 >connector or the internal 50-pin SCSI-2 connector on the PCI card that >supports the internal hard disk. Connecting even one external SCSI device >to the external 68-pin connector extends the overall cable length of the >SCSI bus beyond the limit for which error-free operation can be >guaranteed; the combined length of the internal cable and the external >cable reduces the reliability of all the devices connected to the Ultra >Wide SCSI-3 bus. Connecting a device to the internal 50-pin SCSI-2 >connector will cause your Ultra Wide SCSI-3 devices to transfer data at >the slower, SCSI-2 rate. At a recent computer software engineering course in the US, the participants were given an awkward question to answer. "If you had just boarded an airliner and discovered that your team of programmers had been responsible for the flight control software, how many of you would disembark immediately?" unknown author From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 12:29:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14362 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21688 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:21:30 -0700 Received: from scv4.apple.com (unverified [17.128.100.142]) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:21:28 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.235] (bierpe6.apple.com [17.202.21.235]) by scv4.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA34296 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:21:27 -0700 X-Sender: bierman@mail.apple.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199805191839.NAA13434@mail1.doit.wisc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:12:01 -0700 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com From: Peter Bierman Subject: Re: DR2 Install Problems 7/8/9x00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>As for the 8500 and 7500 (people should look up their own machines here), >>there seems to be termination on the motherboard > >So then it is only necessary to terminate the last device, right? The tech note is less than clear about whether the onboard termination is active if there is a device connected. >I decided to switch the SCSI cable from the SCSI-2 port to the "slow" >SCSI port on the motherboard. Now everything works just dandy. The >Seagate drive actually has an Ultra-SCSI interface on it, but that >wouldn't make any difference, would it? I don't know, I don't write the drivers. It might. It seems to have in your case. :-) -pmb "Crap does not survive in the Mac market." -James Staten, Dataquest analyst http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/applemain980505.html From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 12:45:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail.digimarc.com ([206.163.212.201]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA14602 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.163.212.101] by mail.digimarc.com (NTMail 3.03.0017/1.aia0) with ESMTP id za007695 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 12:45:26 -0700 Subject: 8500 w/ NewerTech G3 card? Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:46:33 -0700 x-sender: dcamp@mail.digimarc.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Dave Camp To: "rhapsody admin" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-Id: <19452632701452@digimarc.com> I just got my DR2 CD today and noticed that it doesn't mention if 3rd party G3 cards work or not. I've got an 8500/120 with a NewerTech 250Mhz G3 card installed. Has anyone tried installing on a machine with a 3rd party G3 card? Or am I going to be the guinea pig... Thanks, Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Camp | | Software Engineer | | EMail: dcamp@digimarc.com Digimarc, Inc. | | Web: www.digimarc.com "All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand..." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 13:12:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail.multigen.com (mail.multigen.com [206.184.173.230]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA15477 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plateau.engr.multigen.com (plateau.engr.multigen.com [209.24.52.10]) by mail.multigen.com (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA23642 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:23:49 -0700 Received: from zulu1.engr.multigen.com (xserv.engr.multigen.com [209.24.52.8]) by plateau.engr.multigen.com (8.6.11/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA23296 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:14:06 GMT Received: by xserv.engr.multigen.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:07:25 -0700 Message-ID: <86F098AC14A7D11194DD00A0C9499D04FDDA@xserv.engr.multigen.com> From: David Twist To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: 8500 w/ NewerTech G3 card? Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:07:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Look on the bright side Dave. At least you don't have to run endlessly in a metal wheel and get nowhere. ;) I can say that the newer 225 MHz 604e in my 8500 doesn't seem to have any more problems than the 120 MHz Apple card. That is to say, they both give me the same error message after starting the install. Something like, " Your system is not compatible. The MultiBoot control panel will have no effect." (I'm going on memory here - My machine's at home) If that's any consolation or not, I don't know. I'll let you know if I can get it working tonight. Got a few more voodoo spells to try... :) Dave wrote: > I just got my DR2 CD today and noticed that it doesn't mention if 3rd > party G3 cards work or not. I've got an 8500/120 with a NewerTech > 250Mhz > G3 card installed. > > Has anyone tried installing on a machine with a 3rd party G3 card? Or > am > I going to be the guinea pig... From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 14:13:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: from dalembert.me.ttu.edu (dalembert.me.ttu.edu [129.118.17.25]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA17627 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dalembert.me.ttu.edu (NX5.67g/NX3.0M) id AA07374; Tue, 19 May 98 16:14:07 -0500 Message-Id: <9805192114.AA07374@dalembert.me.ttu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Face: 2D>Xu:%VMmv4A)&8=%3RO;Z$Dw=%8Gx`oh~+HSpr/nq=8p;4}l_p+5TD{mp,:<=5\$)50u X9uijdLJT?,5*?GTq/%K"U;.]),4?_Xk/IahEX9TLkfp@S`+P5V*06>m-Wsw[}5O9PE}bG kGMR X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.2mach (Enhance 2.0b6) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148) From: "Alan A. Barhorst" Date: Tue, 19 May 98 16:14:05 -0500 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com Subject: DR2 on a PowerCenter 120?? Reply-To: alan@osci.me.ttu.edu Hello, I have been trying to get DR1 and now DR2 onto my PowerCenter 120 (604 PCI). I bought this machine 6 months before NeXT tookover Apple for my kids to use a Mac and I would like to get some Rhapsody use out of it. Under DR1 I tried the suggested elsewhere route of building the Rhapsody disk on an Apple mac but had no success. I could not get the machine to boot from the DR1 Disk. I now have DR2, and I can get the machine to the point where you get the box saying this machine is not supported from both the toshiba CD supplied with the PC 120. Is there a way to fool the installer or is this machine not capable. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks. --- AB _______________________________________________________________ Alan A. Barhorst | alan@osci.me.ttu.edu Mechanical Engineering | http://www.osci.ttu.edu/ Texas Tech University | NeXT, MIME, Sun, & ASCII mail When leaders disregard the law and human dignity, kooks are emboldened; innocence lost. Human potential cannot be developed or measured from a floating moral reference frame. _______________________________________________________________ From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 15:25:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: from eviews.com (merlin.eviews.com [205.230.201.18]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00569 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scott3 ([192.168.2.61]) by eviews.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA22893 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:40:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199805192140.OAA22893@eviews.com> X-Sender: scott@iceweasel.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:57:00 -0700 To: From: Scott Ellsworth Subject: Re: DR2 on a PowerCenter 120?? In-Reply-To: <9805192114.AA07374@dalembert.me.ttu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:16 PM 5/19/98 -0700, Alan A. Barhorst wrote: >Hello, > > I have been trying to get DR1 and now DR2 onto my PowerCenter 120 >(604 PCI)....I now have DR2, and I can get the machine to the >point where you get the box saying this machine is not supported from both >the toshiba CD supplied with the PC 120. I am interested in the same thing. When I tried to install RDR2 on my Power Center Pro 210, I got the message that the system disk control panel would not work, and then that it was going to reboot, but on reboot, it froze before displaying any messages. My assumption is that OF died while walking the display card list, but that may be very, very off. If someone else has managed to get it up on such a machine, then it is worth my time to figure it out, but if it just cannot be done, then I will wait for another release, though it is a bit disturbing that it has gone this far without getting tested on these other machines. All machines have interesting habits, and it is not wise to wait on qualification until the last minute. I am very curious about whether anyone else has managed to get such a machine to run. It has a 4M IMS card in it, and an adaptec ultra SCSI card, though the drive I am installing on is an external. It was pointed out that SCSI termination tends to be more of an issue for Rhapsody, and so it might be worth making sure that I have only the one external drive, and that it is terminated, which will be the project for this weekend. Scott Scott_Ellsworth@alumni.hmc.edu http://www.iceweasel.com/~scott/ "When a great many people are unable to find work, unemployment results" - Calvin Coolidge, (Stanley Walker, City Editor, p. 131 (1934)) "The barbarian is thwarted at the moat." - Scott Adams From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 15:42:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: from unknown-31-139.pilot.net (unknown-31-139.pilot.net [204.48.31.139]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01722 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 15:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.189.103.243] (unverified [206.189.103.243]) by smtp.emailserv.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Tue, 19 May 1998 17:47:49 -0500 X-Sender: petro@smtp.emailserv.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 18:29:40 -0500 To: bierman@apple.com, Multiple recipients of list From: Petro Subject: Re: DR2 Install Problems At 11:35 AM -0500 5/19/98, Peter Bierman wrote: >>Motherboard, ID7--internally terminated (right?) >7/8/9500 machines have TWO SCSI busses, and usually the CDROM and internal >hard disk are on separate busses, and both come terminated, providing the >first terminated device for each bus. Not from the machines I open on a daily basis. They all seem to be connected by the same ribbon cable as far as I can tell. 2 busses. One internal, one external. If you think that anything I say is in any way the corporate (or dis- corporate) position of The Organization I work for, then you are thoroughly out of touch with anything vaguely resembling reality, and should check yourself into the nearest Mental Health Facility. Thanks and have a nice day. petro@p|_@yboy.com From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 16:12:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: from dalembert.me.ttu.edu (dalembert.me.ttu.edu [129.118.17.25]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA04466; Tue, 19 May 1998 16:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dalembert.me.ttu.edu (NX5.67g/NX3.0M) id AA08260; Tue, 19 May 98 18:12:26 -0500 Message-Id: <9805192312.AA08260@dalembert.me.ttu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Face: 2D>Xu:%VMmv4A)&8=%3RO;Z$Dw=%8Gx`oh~+HSpr/nq=8p;4}l_p+5TD{mp,:<=5\$)50u X9uijdLJT?,5*?GTq/%K"U;.]),4?_Xk/IahEX9TLkfp@S`+P5V*06>m-Wsw[}5O9PE}bG kGMR X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.2mach (Enhance 2.0b6) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148) From: "Alan A. Barhorst" Date: Tue, 19 May 98 18:12:24 -0500 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com, rhapsody-dev@omnigroup.com, webobjects@omnigroup.com Subject: Rhapsody as the true cross-platform--A petition!! Reply-To: alan@osci.me.ttu.edu All this is cross-posted to all the rhap lists at Omni, Jordan@apple tells me I should get a list of business and academics that think that Apple should continue with development of Rhapsody in the Intel world. I for one think this is a must because NS/OS technology is really the only way to get true cross platform with an enjoyable experience all around (user and developer). I have been a loner in a Wintel world with a superior NS/OS network of Intel, NeXT and HP hardware for years. My students can sit down anywhere and be at there workspace and just get the job done. This has to continue. I want to use NS/OS technology on my existing machines and any future Intel that I buy along with future Apple hardware. I will pay extra as I have always had to do to run NS/OS technology. It is clearly superior so paying more is justified. We need Rhapsody Intel (with fat Openstep based apps just like we have had for years, why go backwards). If you agree please send me an email with why Apple should keep Rhap-Intel going. If you business depend on it say so and why it is needed. I will bundle them up and send them on. If the stepwise folks want to put a petition on their site lets do it. Send your mail to me not the list. I will try to keep everybody abreast as the responses come in. --- AB _______________________________________________________________ Alan A. Barhorst | alan@osci.me.ttu.edu Mechanical Engineering | http://www.osci.ttu.edu/ Texas Tech University | NeXT, MIME, Sun, & ASCII mail When leaders disregard the law and human dignity, kooks are emboldened; innocence lost. Human potential cannot be developed or measured from a floating moral reference frame. _______________________________________________________________ From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 16:19:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05016 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 16:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13172 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 16:08:50 -0700 Received: from scv2.apple.com (unverified [17.128.100.140]) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 16:08:41 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.235] (bierpe6.apple.com [17.202.21.235]) by scv2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21074 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 16:08:40 -0700 X-Sender: bierman@mail.apple.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:07:30 -0700 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com From: Peter Bierman Subject: Re: DR2 Install Problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >At 11:35 AM -0500 5/19/98, Peter Bierman wrote: >>>Motherboard, ID7--internally terminated (right?) >>7/8/9500 machines have TWO SCSI busses, and usually the CDROM and internal >>hard disk are on separate busses, and both come terminated, providing the >>first terminated device for each bus. > > Not from the machines I open on a daily basis. They all seem to be >connected by the same ribbon cable as far as I can tell. > > 2 busses. One internal, one external. Yup, I seem to have either remembered wrong, or just had machines that someone else had previously mucked with. The 8500ish machines have two busses. You can connect to either bus internally. You can only connect to the external bus externally. Both busses have some sort of termination on the motherboard for the CPU end of the bus. You need to terminate the last device on each. But the summary answer is still the same: if you're having scsi problems, check your termination and cabling first. -pmb "Crap does not survive in the Mac market." -James Staten, Dataquest analyst http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/applemain980505.html From rhapsody-admin-request Tue May 19 18:32:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: from aplgate.jhuapl.edu (aplgate.jhuapl.edu [128.244.198.35]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04373 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.244.12.76] ("port 2048"@bix-b-slip6.jhuapl.edu) by aplgate.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #22050) with ESMTP id <0ET80060JEWMFJ@aplgate.jhuapl.edu> for rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com; Tue, 19 May 1998 21:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:28:43 -0500 From: Chris Stone Subject: NetInfo To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, I am having a few problems with NetInfo. I have a Master Server which I would like to clone. My destination clone server is on the other side of a router. The help pages say that NetInfo uses DHCP, but you can configure it to use other Protocols. Unfortunately, they don't go on to tell you how to configure it. I created a machine account for my clone server in the root domain. When I try to "Create a Clone on this machine", I can't see the root domain. What do I need to tell my router? Or, is there some configuration magic I can do? Baby steps please. BTW, this is DR2. Thanks in advance, Chris Stone From rhapsody-admin-request Wed May 20 00:00:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: from batik (batik.blegga.omnigroup.com [198.151.161.133]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA14416 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 00:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805200700.AAA14416@ignem.omnigroup.com> To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com Subject: Installing DR2 on a G3 with UW SCSI (repost) Date: Wed, 20 May 98 00:01:23 -0700 From: Ken Case Reply-To: kc@omnigroup.com received: by Apple.Mailer (2.82) Since I posted this before rhapsody-admin was created I thought it would probably be a good idea to post this again here. (Especially since I've been asked about it by people who missed the original posting.) Ken > I am trying to build a DR2 development system on a G3/300 with > a 4 GB internal Ultra-Wide SCSI drive (currently a single > partition with Mac OS installed). I would love to be able to > partition this disk, install DR2 on one partition, and MacOS > on the other. But the DR2 documentation states that > Ultra-Wide SCSI disks aren't supported as start-up disks, so > it doesn't appear that I can use my internal disk as a DR2 > startup disk. Has anyone managed to do this despite what the > documentation says? The problem is that OpenFirmware doesn't recognize the UW SCSI card, so you can't do an OpenFirmware boot from your SCSI disk. The workaround is to boot from a device which OpenFirmware does recognize, such as the CD-ROM. Here are my boot parameters: boot-device ide0/@0:0 boot-file ide0/@0:a,mach_kernel boot-command 0 bootr rd=sd1 This boots the kernel from the CD-ROM, but then switches to using the internal UW SCSI disk as the root device. The simple way to get this configuration is to select the Rhapsody DR2 CD-ROM in Multibooter, and enter "rd=sd1" as boot flags. If it turns out "sd1" isn't the right device, you can enter "-a -v" as boot flags: the system will prompt you for the root device at boot time after listing your devices. > So I tried to install DR2 on an external SCSI disk that has > DR1 for Intel and NT 4.0 partitions. [...] > > Can I partition the external disk so that I can run DR2 and > NT on the same disk? Intel partitions are partitioned using your Intel machines' BIOS. You won't be able to recognize them on any non-Intel machine, which is why DR2 for PowerPC only offers to initialize the entire disk for you. > Can I partition the external disk so that I can run DR2 and > NT on the same disk? When DR2 for Intel is released, you'll be able to upgrade that DR1/Intel partition to DR2/Intel and share the disk with NT. But no, you can't mix PowerPC partitions with Intel partitions. Ken From rhapsody-admin-request Wed May 20 01:40:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: from batik (batik.blegga.omnigroup.com [198.151.161.133]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA16320; Wed, 20 May 1998 01:40:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805200840.BAA16320@ignem.omnigroup.com> To: stoneci@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu Subject: Re: NetInfo Cc: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com Date: Wed, 20 May 98 01:40:40 -0700 From: Ken Case Reply-To: kc@omnigroup.com received: by Apple.Mailer (2.82) > I have a Master Server which I would like to clone. My > destination clone server is on the other side of a router. > The help pages say that NetInfo uses DHCP, but you can > configure it to use other Protocols. DHCP may be a supported protocol, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the communication protocol used between NetInfo servers. Between servers, NetInfo simply uses direct TCP and UDP. > I created a machine account for my clone server in the root > domain. When I try to "Create a Clone on this machine", I > can't see the root domain. (Please note: this information in this message is from memory. I apologize if I make any mistakes, I'm not testing this as I go along.) For simplicity, let's pretend your master server's hostname is "master", and your clone's "clone". (I tried to think of more creative names, but there don't seem to be a lot of clones in popular culture, and I figured that names of obscure SF clones like "Miles" and "Mark" would probably be more confusing than helpful. In any case, back to the task at hand...) >From "clone", can you attach to the root domain by tag? That is, if you select "Open By Tag..." from the "Domain" menu, and enter "master" for the host and "network" (the default top-level tag) for the NetInfo database tag, can you browse your root domain? If that's not working, then either your master NetInfo server doesn't trust your clone (check the "trusted_networks" property in the "/" directory), or your router is acting as a firewall and filtering out your NetInfo traffic. If you can browse the root domain from "clone", then let's try the reverse: from "master", try an "Open By Tag..." to host "clone", tag "local" (the default tag for a host's local NetInfo domain). If this also works, then you should be able to attach "clone" to your master's NetInfo domain by editing /machines/clone in the root domain and setting its "serves" property to "clone/local" (if that wasn't already done automatically when you added that system). With that done, you should be able to browse "/" and "/clone" on "master" through the "Open" panel (i.e., you should be able to simply browse, without needing any tags). At this point, "clone" still doesn't know who its parent domain is--it's time to clone that master server. I'm fairly sure that all you have to do at this point is open the root domain (I don't think it makes a difference whether you do this from "master" or "clone") and select "Servers..." from the "Domain" menu. This will present you with a list of hosts known in that domain: it should list "master" with an "M" marking it as the master server, and "clone" with nothing. Click on your "clone" host, press the "Clone" button to mark it as a clone of the current domain, and click "Apply". Follow the prompts, which I believe tell you to wait as it copies the domain, and then tell you to reboot all your NetInfo servers. I think that's it, assuming your root domain has the default "network" tag. If it doesn't have the default "network" tag, then you'll need to change the "/machines/broadcasthost" backpointer in the "/clone" domain to say that it serves "../whatever" rather than "../network". Clear as mud? :) Feel free to ask for clarifications if you get stuck. (Again, this is from memory so I apologize in advance if I've forgotten a step--though I did at least glance at NetInfoManager to make sure I got the menu/button names right.) Ken From rhapsody-admin-request Wed May 20 02:12:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA17127 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 02:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [209.98.9.166] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id EAA37088 (8.8.6/50); Wed, 20 May 1998 04:12:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199805200912.EAA37088@mail1.doit.wisc.edu> Subject: Hints for DR2 booting and installing Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 04:11:59 -0500 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Jeff Krueger To: "Rod Morehead" , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" There have been several questions about problems related to installing DR2, and since I've posted several messages pertaining to this subject, I've received several emails asking for help. I've tried to compile a "mini-FAQ" on this topic. Feel free to add your own experiences to this and hopefully we can get DR2 successfully installed for everyone. (Yes, I'm optimistic.) Be aware that DR2 has a different set of problems than DR1 did, so be prepared. Rest assured, though, that once you do get DR2 installed, you'll be glad you took the time to figure it out! *** DISCLAIMER *** I have done my best to ensure that this information is accurate and reasonably complete. Please post any corrections or additions that you deem necessary. *** USEFUL STUFF *** Before you try anything, it's helpful to be aware of the following three files, where they are located and what they do. "Rhapsody" control panel. Found in the "Utilities" folder on the DR1 CD, this control panel lets you easily set your Rhapsody boot options. Remember that you need to use caps-lock to switch between Mac OS and Rhapsody. "Boot Variables" application. Located the "Utilities" folder on the DR1 CD, this application lets you set and inspect NVRAM parameters. If you don't have DR1, you can get this application from ftp://ftp.linuxppc.org/linuxppc/powermac/bootvars-1.3a.sit.hqx "Multibooter 1.0d11" application. Found in the "Multibooter" folder on the DR2 CD, this application is the DR2 replacement for the "Rhapsody" control panel used for DR1. See the "Read Me" in the "Multibooter" folder for more info. *** BOOT PROBLEMS *** There are two general kinds of boot problems. The first is getting a blank screen after rebooting (such as from the Mac OS portion of the DR2 installer). The second is an apparent hang while DR2 is booting. I will discuss both: *** RHAPSODY WON'T BOOT: THE BLANK SCREEN PROBLEM *** Once again, this problem can occur after running the Mac OS portion of the Rhapsody installer and rebooting. This can also happen if your Open Firmware boot settings are incorrect. You get a blank screen and nothing will boot. What happened? Your Open Firmware settings used to boot Rhapsody are likely to be incorrect. Specifically, the Multibooter application does not seem to work with all machines. (The Mac OS portion of the DR2 installer indirectly uses Multibooter to change your boot settings.) On some machines, such as the 7300, if you run Multibooter and pick a boot partition, quit, and then run Boot Variables, you'll see that the Open Firmware settings are completely messed up. The easiest fix here is to use the Rhapsody control panel from DR1 to specify your boot settings. You don't get the nice NVRAM patches that MultiBooter installs, but you'll be able to boot your system. In the Rhapsody control panel, just specify the SCSI ID you want to boot from (this also works for the CD-ROM, which is usually ID3) and whether the device is on the internal or external bus. Make sure you click the "Save" button to save the settings; I've forgotten more than once. :-) If you want more advanced options and are familiar with Open Firmware (see references at the end) you can try the Boot Variables application. It's also cool to use the Rhapsody control panel to do settings and then inspect/modify them using Boot Variables. The nice thing about Boot Variables is it lets you save a file with your settings in them so you can easily restore them. But you're at that blank screen, right? How do you get out of it? You probably know that you can zap your PRAM, but that's no fun because you lose a bunch of settings that are annoying to set again. A much nicer way is to get back to Mac OS is to reset your machine and hold down the "c" key, telling your computer to try to boot from the CD-ROM. Keep "c" down until you see the familiar gray boot screen. Even if there's no CD or you don't want to boot from the CD, this gets you out of the blank screen. I know this works on Apple hardware, but I don't know about Power Computing or any others. *** PROBLEMS WHILE BOOTING RHAPSODY *** For solving these problems, it's nice to know what's going on while Rhapsody is booting. You can watch the boot sequence by doing one of two things: 1) In the Rhapsody control panel, specify "-v" (without the quotes) for your boot options. Click "Save" and restart with caps-lock down to boot into Rhapsody. Incidentally, "v" means "verbose," which will show you a unix-y startup screen and everything that loads. 2) Or, when you have restarted the computer and it is about to start booting Rhapsody, hold down the "v" key until you see the "window" with the unix-y startup information. I've been told that this doesn't always work, so I would recommend method #1. Now that you're looking at your boot information, look and see when the problems occur. A problem I've experienced (and heard about numerous times) is an apparent hang or freeze during startup. On my own system, this occured while trying to register SCSI devices. If you manage to get Rhapsody to boot but want/need a log of startup messages, look at the file called "system.log" located in the directory "/var/log" (I think!) Startup messages are appended to the end of this file, so you'll have to go to the end to get the most recent. *** PROBLEMS WITH SCSI DEVICES WHILE BOOTING *** I've had more experience with this than I care to think about, but hopefully it will be beneficial to others. Without writing a ten page essay on my troubles, I'll quickly explain the problem: I have two internal hard drives, once of which came with my 7300 and the other I added on. During the boot process when Rhapsody was trying to "register" my third-party hard drive, I'd get that freeze, and later on I would get all kinds of I/O errors and timeouts that caused lots of problems. Initially I thought Rhapsody had hung during boot, but by doing a "verbose boot" (described above) I determined that it actually hadn't hung. SOLUTION #1 >So the simple rule of thumb: always, always, always check your busses, >cables, and termination before blaming the OS. :-) I thank Peter Bierman at Apple for this one. As he says, make sure your cables are not damaged (try another one!) and that your drives are properly terminated. The last device in your SCSI chain should have a terminater on it, but no others. On some drives, you put a jumper on to enable the terminater, on others you take a jumper off to enable the terminater. Be aware of this. SOLUTION #2 This did not solve the problems for me. I isolated the problem by removing devices one by one from the SCSI chain until DR2 booted properly. I determined that the problematic device was indeed the third-party (Seagate) hard drive because everything was fine when it wasn't present. My remedy to this problem was to connect the Seagate drive to the external SCSI bus. There are two SCSI connectors on the motherboard; one for the internal fast SCSI bus, and one for the external "slow" SCSI bus. I connected the problematic hard drive to the external bus and everything runs just fine now. Try this! *** REFERENCES *** Here are some references you may find interesting or useful: Open Firmware ------------- User Interface: http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1061.html Device Tree: http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1062.html Rhapsody Boot Process ---------------------- http://developer.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/technotes/RTN0001_Rh_Boot_Proce ss.html -- I hope there has been some useful information contained here. I've tried as hard as possible to be technically accurate here, but please post any corrections and/or additions that should be made. Yours, Jeff ------ Jeff Krueger Computer Science Major, UW-Madison jakrueg1@students.wisc.edu jkrueger@cs.wisc.edu jeffk@kagi.com "It is easy to convert a bug to a feature: document it." (The Microsoft Employee Handbook, p.215, section B, article VII) From rhapsody-admin-request Wed May 20 11:51:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: from kray.denalisites.com ([208.162.150.7]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA05873 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 11:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from denalisites.com ([208.162.150.217]) by kray.denalisites.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id 302 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 10:51:34 -0800 Message-ID: <3563A1E5.AB12A9A8@denalisites.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:39:17 -0800 From: "Paul Holman" Organization: Denali Sites, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com Subject: Booting RDR2 w/o NetInfo References: <199805200700.AAA14416@ignem.omnigroup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well I had RDR2 running fine, and went and tried to change my IP address. Now I can't boot at all. The thing stalls during various NetInfo boot procedures. I've tried replacing /etc/netinfo/* /etc/hostconfig /etc/hosts with the templates form /usr/template/client/etc as I would do on OpenStep for Mach or RDR1, but this is to no avail. Rhapsody still gets stuck when I boot. Please, if anybody has any idea how I can get my machine back up and running, let me know. I realize now what I probably should have done is changed my IP in preferences instead of NetworkManager's machines entry. Thanks, pablos. From rhapsody-admin-request Wed May 20 12:58:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: from pop.tamu.edu (pop.tamu.edu [128.194.103.4]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08549 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 12:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from geopsun.tamu.edu (GEOPSUN.TAMU.EDU [128.194.195.16]) by pop.tamu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA20353 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:58:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [128.194.195.71] (nicaea.tamu.edu) by geopsun.tamu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15255; Wed, 20 May 98 14:57:12 CDT Message-Id: <9805201957.AA15255@geopsun.tamu.edu> Subject: DR2 SCSI Installation Woes, Part N Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:58:18 -0500 X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Rick Gibson To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" For the sake of completeness, and to ask two more questions, I want to summarize the problems I had installing DR2 on my 8600 and how I solved them (hopefully). The primary problem was during the installation, where the system hung almost indefinitely with repeated "Bus Reset Detected" error messages (this output can be seen holding down the "v" key to force the system to boot in verbose mode). This was clearly a problem associated with my external Seagate hard drive (thanks Jeff Kreuger and others for useful discussion here). I only could install DR2 with the Seagate unplugged, but it still refused to run with the Seagate reconnected. Jeff Kreuger stated that he solved this problem by moving the SCSI connection to the slow bus on the internal port. However, I want to avoid this, because that means I get half the disk performance whether I'm booted into DR2 or MacOS8.1, and I didn't want to purchase a new external disk housing and cable. The option I chose was to purchase a long SCSI ribbon cable, connect it to the SCSI bus 1 port on the inside of the 8600, then run it up to my internal drive. Now DR2 works fine, and I can boot and run DR2 with no problems. I'm hoping for some input on 2 questions though: (1) Am I running any risk of damaging the 8600 by running the SCSI cable through the inside of the machine to my drive? It passes near the RAM, but so does the cable for the normal floppy drive. (2) If I connect, for example, an external Zip drive to the external SCSI port, will I have problems? Based on my reading of the Technical Specs that came with the 8600, I've set the termination on the extra drive to be "on" (with a valid ID number). My assumption is that long as I maintain a unique SCSI id on the extra device, I should be ok - but is the external SCSI port now inactive or something? Thanks for any help, Rick Gibson =================================================== Texas A&M University Dept. of Geology & Geophysics MS 3115 College Station, TX 77843-3115 Tel: 409 862 8653 Fax: 409 845 6162 =================================================== From rhapsody-admin-request Wed May 20 13:05:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: from pop.tamu.edu (pop.tamu.edu [128.194.103.4]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09025 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from geopsun.tamu.edu (GEOPSUN.TAMU.EDU [128.194.195.16]) by pop.tamu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA21062 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 15:04:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [128.194.195.71] (nicaea.tamu.edu) by geopsun.tamu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15354; Wed, 20 May 98 15:03:44 CDT Message-Id: <9805202003.AA15354@geopsun.tamu.edu> Subject: CORRECTION: DR2 SCSI Installation Woes, Part N Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:04:49 -0500 X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Rick Gibson To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Just after posting my previous message, I found an error: >The primary problem was during the installation, where the system hung >almost indefinitely with repeated "Bus Reset Detected" error messages >(this output can be seen holding down the "v" key to force the system to >boot in verbose mode). This was clearly a problem associated with my >external Seagate hard drive (thanks Jeff Kreuger and others for useful "external" should read: "extra internal" >discussion here). I only could install DR2 with the Seagate unplugged, >but it still refused to run with the Seagate reconnected. Sorry for any confusion and wasted bandwidth. Rick Gibson =================================================== Texas A&M University Dept. of Geology & Geophysics MS 3115 College Station, TX 77843-3115 Tel: 409 862 8653 Fax: 409 845 6162 =================================================== From rhapsody-admin-request Wed May 20 14:05:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: from alpha.xerox.com (firewall-user@alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA12692 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vertigo.parc.xerox.com ([13.1.136.17]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <52443(2)>; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:05:24 PDT Received: from plug.parc.xerox.com ([13.1.101.144]) by vertigo.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <65545>; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:05:11 PDT Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:05:11 PDT From: Edward Moy To: Rhapsody-Admin List Subject: more of 8500 install problems Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII My old 8500 (originally with a 120 MHz 604, recently upgraded to a 233 MHz 604e) was one of the 8500's that Rhapsody DR2 would not install on. Like others, I get the error message something like "Rhapsody can not be installed on this machine. The System Disk control will have no effect." I have replace the internal 4x CD-ROM drive with an 8x drive from my 7600. The same problem occurred. So I took the external drive that was to contain Rhapsody and moved it to the 7600, and with the 8x drive that failed on the 8500, had no problem installing DR2. I moved the disk back to the 8500, and installed Multibooter under Mac OS. When I ran Multibooter, I got the same error message as above. I sounds to me like the problem is not the drive, but the hardware/firmware drving it. Giving up on the 8500 for the time being, I have swapped internal hard disks, memory, processor boards and VRAM between the 8500 and the 7600 (it was also recently upgraded with a G3 upgrade card). So now the 7600/233 boots and runs Rhapsody DR2 just fine, while my 8500/G3/250 contains my regular Mac system. The only problem I'm having is that the G3 is too fast for the old 70 ns VRAM and video hardware (though it seemed to work fine with the 70 ns VRAM in the 7600) and I get white stripes in highlighted text. Rather than just replace the VRAM with 60 ns VRAM, I've decided to get a graphics card, which I wanted anyways. I'm a little upset by all of this, since I originally bought the 8500 (refurbished) just to run DR1, and bought the processor upgrade and more memory for it as well. If I had purchased a latter model refurbished 8500, I probably wouldn't be having this problem, but who was to know? Oh well... If anyone ever figures out how to overcome this problem, I'd still be interested in doing it, even if it means having to swap back all the parts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Edward Moy Xerox Palo Alto Research Center From rhapsody-admin-request Wed May 20 14:14:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: from www.ldr.com (www.ldr.com [208.8.190.103]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13112; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dave@localhost) by www.ldr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03710; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:14:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "Dave Neuer" Message-Id: <9805201414.ZM3708@www.ldr.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:14:11 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com, rhapsody-dev@omnigroup.com Subject: Serial Drivers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii So, Has anyone tried (or succeeded, for that matter) in getting the serial ports working under DR2 as alluded to in /System/Documentation/Developer/YellowBox/ReleaseNotes/InstallTools.html? I've scoured Apple's Rhapsody developer website and don't see any way to download drivers (or anything else), but the instructions seem to imply that that might not be necessary anyway. Anyone have any luck? Any Apple people listening know if this can actually be done? -- ============================================================ Dave Neuer | Litho Development & Research LDR Webmaster | 12021 NE Airport Way daven@ldr.com | Portland, OR 97220 (503) 255-5800 x172 | http://www.ldr.com ============================================================ From rhapsody-admin-request Wed May 20 14:25:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: from nts1.santabarbara.com (nts1.santabarbara.com [205.180.85.121]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14205 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.110] ([208.29.168.30]) by nts1.santabarbara.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 0-40440U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA511; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:25:53 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:25:02 -0700 Subject: Re: Serial Drivers From: "Hunter Hillegas" To: daven@ldr.com, Multiple recipients of list Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19980520212552134.AAA511@[208.29.168.30]> Yeah, I was wondering this also... If the drivers can be activated, could we just grab pppd from MkLinux or LinuxPPC, tweak a bit and recompile to have ppp? Hunter Hunter Hillegas hunter@lastonepicked.com http://www.lastonepicked.com ---------- >>From: "Dave Neuer" >>To: Multiple recipients of list >>Subject: Serial Drivers >>Date: Wed, May 20, 1998, 2:16 PM >> >>So, >> >>Has anyone tried (or succeeded, for that matter) in getting the serial ports >>working under DR2 as alluded to in >>/System/Documentation/Developer/YellowBox/ReleaseNotes/InstallTools.html? >> >>I've scoured Apple's Rhapsody developer website and don't see any way to >>download drivers (or anything else), but the instructions seem to imply that >>that might not be necessary anyway. >> >>Anyone have any luck? Any Apple people listening know if this can actually be >>done? >> >> >>-- >>============================================================ >>Dave Neuer | Litho Development & Research >>LDR Webmaster | 12021 NE Airport Way >>daven@ldr.com | Portland, OR 97220 >>(503) 255-5800 x172 | http://www.ldr.com >>============================================================ From rhapsody-admin-request Wed May 20 14:50:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14798 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05136 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:43:34 -0700 Received: from scv4.apple.com (unverified [17.128.100.142]) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:43:31 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.235] (bierpe6.apple.com [17.202.21.235]) by scv4.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA08188 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:43:30 -0700 X-Sender: bierman@mail.apple.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199805192140.OAA22893@eviews.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:44:04 -0700 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com From: Peter Bierman Subject: Re: DR2 on a PowerCenter 120?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I am interested in the same thing. When I tried to install RDR2 on my >Power Center Pro 210, I got the message that the system disk control panel >another release, though it is a bit disturbing that it has gone this far >without getting tested on these other machines. All machines have >interesting habits, and it is not wise to wait on qualification until the >last minute. Apple has no plans to qualify any clone machines for Rhapsody. We have more than enough work on our hands qualifying our own machines. If 3rd parties are able to document fixes and work arounds, great. Some people (like myself) are even willing to provide tips on specific problems, but there won't be any *offical* support from Apple. -pmb "Crap does not survive in the Mac market." -James Staten, Dataquest analyst http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/applemain980505.html From rhapsody-admin-request Wed May 20 14:53:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: from kray.denalisites.com ([208.162.150.7]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA15153 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from denalisites.com ([208.162.150.217]) by kray.denalisites.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id 294 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:53:47 -0800 Message-ID: <3563CC98.E04323F5@denalisites.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:41:28 -0800 From: "Paul Holman" Organization: Denali Sites, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com Subject: Resetting/disabling NetInfo on RDR2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At various times with OpenStep and Rhapsody, I have hosed my installation by trying to change one thing or another about the setup. Most recently it was the IP address on RDR2, which made my machine fail to boot. This is probably because I changed the IP address in the wrong place. Anyway, here are some pointers if your machine is getting stuck during startup during the NetInfo phases. These directions are specific to RDR2 although they resemble help for RDR1 & OpenStep for Mach. See NextAnswer 1470 for help with OpenStep for Mach & email Developer Support for the help with RDR1. 1. When you are booting RDR2, you can hit Control-C to get to a prompt at just about any time. This should work if you are looking at the screen that says Starting Netinfo. 2. You can replace the NetInfo setup with the default one by issuing the following commands: #cp -rp /usr/template/client/etc/netinfo /etc #cp -p /usr/template/client/etc/hostconfig /etc #cp -p /usr/template/client/etc/hosts /etc #cp -p /usr/template/client/etc/iftab /etc the main one that is going to get you back in action is the iftab file. It contains an entry like this: en0 inet 17.104.104.97 netmask 255.255.255.0 up #en0 = Mac built in enet, use your own IP info Junking that line is the key to getting Rhapsody DR2 to start up and run it's little setup Assistant. This will ask you for all your real network and NetInfo set up choices. 3. There are all kinds of lower-impact changes you could choose instead of the dramatic reset outlined above (which will junk all your netinfo settings). You can modify those files, primarily iftab & hostconfig using pico or vi. At the very least, you may want to make a backup of these files before you replace them with the templates. Depending on what kind of problem you had, you could restore your NetInfo database from your backup. Thanks to Apple Developer Support & OmniGroup for the help. pablos. From rhapsody-admin-request Wed May 20 14:54:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail.digimarc.com ([206.163.212.201]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA15224 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.163.212.101] by mail.digimarc.com (NTMail 3.03.0017/1.aia0) with ESMTP id wa007848 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:54:15 -0700 Subject: AppleShare Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:55:25 -0700 x-sender: dcamp@mail.digimarc.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Dave Camp To: "rhapsody admin" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-Id: <21541557802920@digimarc.com> Is there a version of netatalk or something similar for DR2 that lets Macs access Rhapsody machines via AppleShare, or is FTP the only way to do that right now? Thanks, Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Camp | | Software Engineer | | EMail: dcamp@digimarc.com Digimarc, Inc. | | Web: www.digimarc.com "All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand..." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhapsody-admin-request Wed May 20 15:09:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by ignem.omnigroup.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15748 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 15:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19232 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:59:14 -0700 Received: from scv3.apple.com (unverified [17.128.100.121]) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:59:06 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.235] (bierpe6.apple.com [17.202.21.235]) by scv3.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10392 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:59:05 -0700 X-Sender: bierman@mail.apple.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199805200912.EAA37088@mail1.doit.wisc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:00:29 -0700 To: rhapsody-admin@omnigroup.com From: Peter Bierman Subject: Re: Hints for DR2 booting and installing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Firmware settings are completely messed up. The easiest fix here is to >use the Rhapsody control panel from DR1 to specify your boot settings. >You don't get the nice NVRAM patches that MultiBooter i