The Omni Group

Yes, definitely. I wouldn't use a beta app for my full productivity trial anyway, but I would certainly like to see what features are in the wings so I can make the decision on how much I should commit myself to another app. Right now, I've been tentative about my embracement of Thinking Rock. I'd love to see if OmniFocus is right now, so I can have some early data.

It's important to keep in mind (not that you guys aren't acutely aware of this, I'm sure you are) that software is never done.  It's probably important to consider who thinks it 90% done and who thinks it's ready for daily use.  That is, perhaps it may be missing that absolutely key feature for some people, but how many people are there with that need?  Personally, I'd rather try out the app when it's stable enough to work in even if some of its non-necessary features aren't yet enabled.  Not to name names, but some other GTD apps for the Mac have been released as betas long before they were halfway stable and that was something that certainly should've been handled in a private beta.

Long story short, I'd rather a public beta wait until it's stable enough to not be a headache but not necessarily until it's 100% 1.0 feature complete.

The big question would be how stable is the underlying data format? If it is stable enough that we can export and import our data, then release away. If our data will become inaccessible, then hold off a bit.

But keep this in mind: 90% complete is likely more functional than most other productivity apps out there.

Phil, you make a good point on the challenge of agreeing on what constitutes a key feature.

Amber, that's something we're currently pondering—if we do make an early beta available, how best to ensure the salient points (May be Unstable and Untrustworthy, etc) are understood and accepted. (And forgiven?)

Beta is just that, not done! You should get some good feedback on how things are going…. my vote is to release it for the pioneers and those interested.

I'd say yes as well! Do post the beta in whatever stage.

[...] OmniFocus News Die Arbeit der OmniGroup an OmniFocus, möglicherweise DEM GTD-Werkzeug, schreitet voran. Wann die Software fertig ist, steht noch in den Sternen: At the moment, the question is sort of moot because the app is definitely not ready for beta, or sneaky peek, or even for posting screenshots. [...]

i'd use in. i've tried many gtd apps and am not satisfied with any. i suspect omni focus will be the best of the lot due to the fact you develop great software. there are no guarantees. i just don't want to invest loads of effort and time into a solution that i may abandon for omni focus, assuming the program is what i want. i'd rather get started with omni, learn along with the development, maybe give insight to users, and feel like i am moving forward rather than in a holding pattern.

Bring it on. Let's see what you've got so far. Since we don't really know anything about it yet, and have no previous version (or any decent competitors for GTD apps), perhaps you should let us see it when it's still alpha, since you technically shouldn't be adding, removing, or significantly changing any features in the beta stage, and well, some of us might have some good ideas that shouldn't have to wait until version 2. Just a thought.

Release early, release often!

I would definitely try the beta and submit feedback. You could put directions in the read me that instruct the user to back up their iCal and other data before using it.

I had to abandon kGTD due to speed/usability.  went back to notecards.  Saw an article over the weekend on iGTD (http://bargiel.home.pl/iGTD/)

This is a pretty good product.  I have faith that OF will be an improvement upon this and I'm willing to pay for a professionally supported product.  But I will tell you that the iGTD app is a beta (with bugs) and I'm using it on a daily basis. 

This is a one guy shop… and I'm pretty impressed by what he's doing.  You should take a CLOSE look.  You may even want to hire him. 

He's got some great ideas… and aside from some bugs (smart folders not working, synch not up to par, no subprojects, etc.) it is a very usable solution.

So if you need to know if we are hungry… the answer is yes.  If we are ready to use pre-release software the answer is yes.  If you want to see a pretty good interface… look at iGTD.

waiting impatiently.

I'd like it to be released early.  I've given up on using Kinkless, and would like to be able to have early input on calendar issues, syncing with multiple computers, etc.

I think we can trust you guys that some imperfections may exists ( eg kinkless), but its the workflow and logic we want to test. There are over 5 GTD apps out or in development which is great, but omnifocus is the one to watch. Because you listed to Merlin and evan etc…

Do not postpone perfection, it beta…cheesy peeps.

The sooner your out the sooner the validation or correction of your UI, features, worflow etc… Thus making it better.

Prevent procrastination, get beta out when ready, but 90% is ok….!

If the functions in there work reliably, and if (*required*) it doesn't lose data, then I'd love to see this out as a preview. If the beta-ness is related to data integrity, then please let it bake a bit longer.

Let OmniFocus free!

Release a sneak peak so we can get our feedback in early. If it is missing features, just be clear what those are and people can make up their own eyes if they need to wait till they use it as a full time projection product.

BZ

Definitely wait until it is finished. Half baked apps cause more trouble than they are worth. Wow us with your brilliance by serving up something wonderful and complete. :-D

I echo what Charles said. I have also stopped trying to make kGTD do what I want it to do while checking my RSS feeds several times each day, anxiously awaiting the “Come get the OF beta” post.

I also agree that something is better than nothing. I'm probably not going to spend hours and hours fine-tuning the information that I put into the very first pre-beta OF release, but I'm definitely hoping to be able to at least begin learning the UI, etc…

I think it's safe to say that most of us posting here have purchased other Omni products and are very satisfied with the quality of those products. There is no question in my mind that the v1.0 of OF will be of equally-high quality. Am I willing to deal with some bugs and missing features knowing that something great is coming? Absolutely!

Yes, I would use a beta. Let me put it another way: I need the OmniFocus beta. I downloaded iGTD, but then I decided not to use it because I figured I would just have to switch to OF when it was released and I didn't feel like taking that hit.

As good as kGTD is, it have obvious limitations—which is fine. It's not how well the dancing bear dances… and it's made a big difference me being able to do GTD on the Mac at all. Also, the great community that's sprung around kGTD has made using is much easier.

However, kGTD gave us a glimpse of what's possible. Now I need the full-on Spotlight enabled, Core Data powered, super scriptable and iCal compliant goodness that I'm assuming OmniFocus will be.

So yes, I'll test and I'll provide feedback. As long as I can easily backup my data, I'm ready. I just need to get started soon—I'm about to get really busy.

I would want an acceptable level of functionality before spending time on evaluating a beta. At earlier stages I would be content seeing screenshots and feature descriptions.

My vote for an early and uncomplete release

I'll throw in my vote for getting a beta out early.

I've never used GTD, but I'm intrigued by the fact that you guys are creating an entire app around it.  I've bought many versions of several of your apps, and as a developer, fully appreciate the hard work you've done.

I know it makes you nervous to let things out the door early, but in today's world of sites that launch in beta, people are getting more and more used to the idea that something will evolve as they use it.

Plus… I really wanna see what the fuss is about. :)

Beta now please !

Just like another poster above, I have almost stopped using KinklessGTD while waiting for OmniFocus.

Just give us a backup feature !

Besides, isnt MS Office 2004 still in beta ?

I'd love to be part of the last 10%. The frustration of beta testing a 100% product is not having any ability to influence the small changes that could make the product much more user friendly.

If you do release an alpha or 90% Beta, one suggestion is to have printing capabilities in place for “visualization” of bugs. For my peace of mind I keep very good daily backups, so, no worries if I find today's data doesn't match yesterday's printout. I just go back a day.

Lastly, I like many others are waiting to upgrade my “trusted system” in anticipation of OmniFocus. So the sooner we can start the better. I will probably be running parallel systems as I migrate from my old system to OmniFocus. The migration can take place as the last 10% progresses.

Bring it on!  I'm a crazy beta tester.  Although, if I find I don't like the product I'll probably just drop out.

The important thing for the beta… make sure there is a way to keep the data safe.  As long as things screw up and I can revert back to data, I'm okay.  I won't risk the amount of time and 'valuable' ideas put into my data being corrupted.

My only question is how Focus will be better than the increasing number of free GTD apps out there. Whether this will be better answered with an early sneak peek or with all features in place is for you to decide.

I'd say that releasing multiple builds simultaneously (with varying degrees of wildness and more robust featuresets) and more frequently might also expedite the correct path for development.

As long as there's a way of backing up the data, and I can revert to an earlier version, then I'm fine.  I've been using Kinkless, which isn't perfect, and like another commenter, have ground to a halt waiting for Omnifocus.  Dying to see what you guys have been up to.  Saddo that I am, I'm constantly on the forum.  Please put me out of my misery.

It's not like I'm actually using something now which is working for me. Getting started down the road to something-that-will-work would be a huge boost.

I say do it - There's a million devout and sincere OMNI / GTD fans here waiting to pitch in and do our part to help make this product successful. A good back and forth dialogue will help make the software the best it can be for it's users - obviously, us! Any reasonably aware beta user knows there will be problems. The pluses outweigh the minuses. We can get a feel for the UI, see if the inbox (input, whatever) is logical and natural, etc. I promise not to use it as a 1.0 release until it's a 1.0 release! :)

I got to this topic a little late, so most of what I would have said has already been said.

I can't begin to tell you how much I have been waiting for this software (check this site many times a day looking for a morsel of hope or news).  Using Omni's other products as a guide, I have very high hopes for OF.  I have high hopes in how it will handle my workflow, the features, etc., and if I have a chance to make suggestions before the software is “100%” complete, then I think you and the users are all that much further ahead.  Now that I know it is close, I think that it very important that the people that are VERY interested in it (probably everyone here and in the forum) have a chance to evaluate it before it released to the mainstream public.  Since we will probably be the hardest group to satisfy (I think that we are a knowledgeable group that knows what we need/ want), if you can make us happy you should be able to make the majority of the people happy.

With that being said, I think if you listened to what people were saying in the forums, then this is shaping up to be one of the most exciting software releases in a long time- the next one being OO 4.0.

I'd love to get my hands on it, since I'm trying to find the best GTD tool.  Even if it was incomplete.  Or, if we knew what the cost was going to be or if there would be a cheaper upgrade cost from OmniOutliner, I would go ahead and get that and use it until OF was complete…  Any chance you could confirm the rumors of a $15 upgrade?

I think it's pretty much all been said above, but I wanted to throw my two cents in as well - I would definitely use a beta of this program.  The ability to start using the system and not have to switch over to it from another system is a big plus - I'm willing to put up with any headaches involved in a beta, because switching is no picnic either!

I feel like I'm always beta testing my productivity apps, so whenever it's ready, whenever you put it out there, whenever you're done with some manifestation of the beast, just holler. You post, me download.

Release it at 90%, as long as we can import our data from kGTD.  I'm really ready to give up on the whole thing if I don't see something soon.  The wait is killing me and my productivity.

I prefer to wait until the software is â??supposedâ?? to be ready for prime time. Then I will be happy to try it, report bugs, and suggest features. I doubt that I will even use the first couple of beta versions.

While I agree with Amber, thereâ??s another side to â??The only negatives are the few who just Donâ??t Get It and post rampant angry opinions about something that isnâ??t even finished.â?? I find it annoying when I read so much praise and glowing reviews for software that is buggy, incomplete, and often unusable.

Iâ??ll skip the early releases unless theyâ??re reasonably full-featured and stable.

I am ready to test a beta as soon as the beta is ready —or sooner.

I am willing to put up with bugs, and even data loss, in a BETA.

I've participated in beta tests where I had to return a form stating I was aware the software was beta and the company was not responsible for lost data, etc. I would cheerfully sign a document like this for Omni Fu.

—Liz

Yes as others have already said. It's Beta OK. It's in our hands OK. We can give feed back OK. We can define “if” it's what we are looking for OK. It's a all around winner for everybody serious that wants and needs a GTD planning system. Come on guys, you're making us nuts waiting for Omnifocus, give us a break!!

I'm pretty anxious myself. As long as you warn everyone that's it's a true beta (gamma?) and people should back everything up and expect crashes (and I'm sure you will), then go for it.

If you're REALLY paranoid, make it a selective beta rather than an open one—once the power users bang around with it a bit you can open it up as a more public beta.

Now as to how to determine who should be part of that private beta ... well you're on your own, kid.

Release early, release often.

I think as long as you're clear about the state of the code, and warn off the faint of heart, you'll get much more benefit out of a beta test. I'm sure you're doing usability tests and getting feedback from at least a small group of external advisors, but there's nothing quite like exposing it to the world to help guide development and prioritization of features. And it's better to do that early…

I'd test it in a heartbeat…

yes please yes please….we, as early adopters, do so with knowledge that you don't put LIVE data that is irreplaceable into a beta app….if you do, it's on your head.  Give it to us and let us run with it….you have a really receptive audience…we'll make it better for everyone, faster.

If you can make sure that data are not lost when the app crashes, and - crucially - if you are able to turn out fresh beta's at a high frequency, go for it.

The longer you put it off, the more people will start moving to the likes of Actiontastic and iGTD.  ThinkingRock is working on a new release also, so the market is maturing quickly.

for the love of god, let this rabid crowd have a swing at it!

we've got things that need to get done!

Benjamin said it best…“for the love of god, let this rabid crowd have a swing at it!”

Beta or alpha or whatever!

It's *really* going to make people crazy when they find out the pre-alpha release is a picture of a pencil and a piece of paper.

As a Kinkless user, I *really* want to try this out regardless of stability.  I'm dying to see what's coming particularly since kGTD entered limbo as soon as OmniFocus development began.

I would rather you work hard to use the Leopard iCal Events and Tasks API so it will integrate tightly with Mail.app, iCal (events & todos), and iCal Server.  Why release a 1.0 then 2.0 for Leopard?  Leopard ships in June.  Better to target Leopard only with a GTD application given it's new API's. 

Heck, if you released a video demo of all that in action, being used in a real life demonstration, you would have hordes of people buying OmniFocus & Leopard or even new Mac's just to be able to achieve that Zen GTD state of mind! Post it to YouTube/Google Video/vido.aol.com, etc.

I love OmniGraffle and OmniOutliner, I look forward to OmniFocus, but I will wait for it to be Leopard because the day Leopard ships I will be upgrading.  I know of many who are waiting for Leopard to buy their first Mac's as well.  These new switchers are going to want advanced calendar/todo/email integration that Leopard provides because they are all used to Outlook.  However, crappy Outlook is, it does do things that Tiger iCal & Mail cannot do. Integrate OMNIFocus into the Leopard API's and you've just kicked things up a notch.  Do it “right” and you have a killer application.

Add the Leopard iCal API's into OmniPlan and you make it even better.

Of course James is right.  Everything will change when Leopard comes out, and the todo's in Mail will allow for interesting integration possibilities that cannot currently be done with 10.4 (and what many people cry out for).  Of course not everyone will want to upgrade, but i think most will.

Do things right and you'll be loved forever.

Regardless of whether you put it out for Beta, it would be nice to have some screenshots so we can see if the UI will work for us.  In particular:

- Main screen

- the work in any application (ala quicksilver) widget

- the projects screen

- the integration with email

- the integration with other Omni apps (mostly omniplan, but maybe others?)

- syncing screen

I will likely not participate in the early Beta program, but would like to comment on the basic design

My 2¢: I will go against the grain, and say wait and go through the normal cycle. There are lots of good reasons to release early, but one great reason not to: if OF is bad, an early release will kill the project. As you can see from many posters, there are LOTS of GTD type apps for the Mac now, new ones seem to be released each week. But how many are worth it, and how many are just 'me to' apps or released way too early simply to ride on the wave of GTD popularity now. 90% are bad apps, you try them one time and immediately through it away. Omni is a big company, and this app has attracted a lot of attention, not all of it positive (daringfireball comes to mind). If you release a half baked alpha just to satisfy us Omni watchers, beware. Once you get fairly far along and OF is pretty stable, most features more or less in place, then put it out.

I would say to go a little slower then you did with OmniPlan (which I beta tested and now happily own) - it was pretty rough at the start, but the potential was pretty obvious and (for me, at least) worth the growing pains. But that is for a very specialized app that takes time to learn and understand how to use. OF is going much more mainstream, so I'd say to take it a bit slower, with a private first beta (or maybe two betas depending on the comments), then slowly widen the base.

I really look forward to this app, do a good job on it first and foremost. Oh, and for features ;) : based on CoreData, easy to sync (isync, ipod, palm, iphone whatever), oh yea…a pro version that is a hosted web solution :p.

Take care, and keep putting out the good stuff!

-SB

To those who want perfection, again, we are talking about releasing beta software; not final candidate or GM.

I say, get it out into the wild before you lose your audience to something that may not be as good, but good enough. I think it is safe to say that the commentors to this blog are hard core, mature power users who understand this is beta - hopefully.

As much as I would love to get my hands on it now, I agree that there is a lot to be said for reputation - and be careful not to cause too much frustration out of those very high expectations. Most of us here presumably love the Omni products for one reason - they empower us to achieve high-quality outcomes very intuitively. I just recently did a rather complex graph and I didn't really have to learn anything to get it done so easily with OmniGraffle. You don't want to tarnish that reputation.

One option (rabies and all) would be to add some beef to the existing teaser campaign you have going on. Commit. Give us some of that UI. The main reason why so many of us cannot wait to get their hands on this is that more and more GTD stuff is coming out and it's getting better and better, but we all asume that it's not worth really committing to it if you guys come up with something really, really good. So why not make more concrete what it is exactly that we can expect? Work with a limited beta crowd, but keep the general interest high by sharing some of what's out there. Do the iPhone strategy - that way you hear from the crowd what's missing w/o having a product that then is obsolete and has caused a lot of anger.

Especially now that we have to wait for Leopard until OCTOBER!

What Hendrik said. Of course you want whatever you let out to be reasonably solid, but the market really is heating up. I'm still loyally waiting for OF, but I must admit that every time someone mentions another new app, I do go check it out. I need *something* to use. I'd like it to be OF!

[...] The last time I posted about OmniFocus, I mentioned we were thinking about potential early betas and the like—ways to share what we’ve built so far, without hosing your data or giving you a terrible first impression of our newest app. [...]